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April 14, 2024 - The Ben Shapiro Show

55:02

[En Español] En Primera Línea de la Libertad | Presidente de Argentina, Javier Milei

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	How can it be that my popularity has increased?
	How can it be that my intention to vote has increased?
	It means that the cultural battle is giving results.
	And the Argentines decided to mature, put on their long pants and once and for all start doing things right.
	And this, then, exceeds the case of Javier Milei.
	is that Argentines have decided to embrace freedom.
	And that's the best message.
	Today, we're honored to host a figure who has not only captivated the attention of his nation,
	but has stirred conversations around the globe about the direction of Western civilization,
	economic freedom, and the power of individualism.
	A figure whose meteoric rise in politics is matched only by his unyielding dedication to poor conservative principles.
	Today, we welcome President Javier Mille to the Sunday Special.
	An economist by profession and a maverick by nature, President Mille has become a polarizing figure in Argentine politics, championing a libertarian approach in a landscape traditionally dominated by populist and socialist policies.
	His journey to the presidency is not just a political story, it's a narrative about challenging the entrenched status quo, advocating for radical change, and inspiring a movement.
	Mille has risen to prominence through his outspoken criticism of fiscal irresponsibility, his advocacy for reducing the size of government, and his unique ability to connect with the disaffected voters tired of traditional politics.
	In 2018, Mille became the most interviewed economist on television, with 235 interviews, also hosting his own radio show, Demoliendo Mitos, or Demolishing Myths.
	In 2023, Millet ran for president as part of La Libertad Avanza, and as inflation rose above 100% in the country, so did Millet's position in the polls.
	On November 19, 2023, he defeated his political opponent, Sergio Massa, in a landslide historic election, gaining the highest percentage of the vote since Argentina became a democracy.
	In his victory speech, Millet promised a reconstruction of Argentina and the end to its economic decline, a new era.
	Since taking office, President Mele has lowered the number of ministries from 18 to 9, deregulated the Argentine economy, and slowed inflation in the country.
	In today's conversation, we explore Mele's incisive views on the current state of the West, dissecting the ideological battles that threaten the foundational principles of freedom and prosperity.
	We discuss Argentina's economic turmoil, characterized by rampant inflation, fiscal deficits, and a burgeoning public debt.
	Mile's diagnosis of Argentina's economic woes and his prescriptions for recovery are both controversial and compelling, advocating for sweeping reforms to restore economic stability and growth.
	We also delve into Mile's personal journey, tracing the roots of his political and economic philosophies to his formative years, uncovering experiences that shaped his worldview and moments that propelled him from a renowned economist to a national leader.
	In a world where the specter of socialism looms large, Millet stands as a bulwark against the threats to economic freedom, championing policies that empower individuals and foster entrepreneurship.
	Join us for a riveting discussion that spans the spectrum of political, economic, and social ideology,
	and offers a glimpse into the mind of one of today's most fascinating political figures.
	Presidente Mele, es un honor conocerlo.
	I want to start by asking you, how do you make such audacious economic decisions?
	For people who don't know anything about Argentina, what was the situation that led to your election and how did you get the freedom to do so?
	that led to his election and how he gets the freedom to do it.
	Well, in principle, when we arrive, we inherit the worst inheritance
	that a government in all of Argentine history has received.
	And In that sense, for example, when a country has twin deficits for four points of GDP, it's a yellow alert.
	Eight is a red alert.
	We received 17 points of GDP.
	At the same time, of those 17 points, 15 were explained by the fiscal deficit.
	where 5 points were explained by the deficit in the treasury and 10 points of the PBI were in the central bank.
	In fact, the debt of the central bank, the previous government, was in charge of spending it for 30 days, 60 days, 90 days, 120, 150, 180 days.
	30 days, 60 days, 90 days, 120, 150, 180 days.
	It was spent in one day.
	So there was the potential to quadruple the amount of money in one day.
	At the same time, the deficit that the Kirchnerist government had accumulated in all its management was 28 points of GDP.
	But in the last year, it had generated 13 points of GDP, which was equivalent to more than five times the monetary base.
	In addition, when prices began to rise in December, inflation in the first week ran at a rate of 3,700% per
	year.
	In the second week, it accelerated to 7,500% per year.
	And in fact, the majority inflation in December, which was 54% per month,
	that annualized implies 10% of the total inflation.
	17,000%. Therefore, we were faced with a situation that also, structurally, implied that we had a monetary
	imbalance worse than the one we had in 1975, prior to the Rodrigo crisis.
	We had a situation in the Central Bank that was much worse than the one in 1975.
	And what has to do with the social indicators, they were at worse levels than in 2001.
	and what has to do with the social indicators were at worse levels than in 2001.
	That is, it was the sum of all the evils all together, and then it was evident that Argentina had to make a change.
	And the reality is that...
	The only way to make an adjustment without financing was that it had to be a shock.
	And that shock had to be tremendously abrupt because of this constellation of imbalances.
	Because, in fact, if the crisis had exploded, today we would be talking not only about hyperinflation, but we would be talking about 95% of the poor and probably 50 or 60% of the needy.
	In that context, there was no alternative to make the adjustment.
	In that sense, we announced a zero-deficit program.
	I mean, an adjustment, let's say, to stop having a fiscal deficit and to cut the emission of what had to do with the tax.
	On the other hand, we started a process of balancing the central bank to lower those 10 points of the GDP of deficit generated by the central bank.
	And at the same time, as there was a change gap of 200%, we made a change correction to try to eliminate the gap.
	In that sense, we hoped that the zero deficit would be reached by 2024.
	In fact, all the analysts said that it was impossible, that it was not possible to do it.
	And we basically did it in a month.
	That is, only that part of the adjustment makes it the largest fiscal adjustment in the history of humanity.
	...recognized by the International Monetary Fund.
	But we also carried out the adjustment in the Central Bank balance sheet.
	Today, the quasi-tax deficit of 10 points of the PBI was lowered to 4 points of the PBI.
	That is, in the span of three months, we made an adjustment for the equivalent of 12 points of the PBI.
	And December inflation was at 25%, In the month of January it fell to 20.
	In February it fell to 13.
	It is expected that in what is March, being a very, very, very complicated month, it is around 10.5% and the core is already within a digit.
	And in the month of April we could enter a digit of inflation and the core in a low digit.
	That is, we are dominating inflation.
	At the same time, We have substantially improved the balance of the Central Bank, because although we receive the Central Bank with net negative reserves for 11,500 million dollars, and since we came to power, we have accumulated purchases for more than 12,000 million dollars, and despite that purchase of currencies, despite
	Some instruments, some PUDs that fired monetary emission that the previous government did to control the exchange rate, and what has to do with the remuneration of the passives, these that I said I would pass one day, that before were the LERICS and now are the PASES.
	Despite all that emission, the contraction we made for Bopreal, which is a bonus to rescue pesos, and also the tax surplus, allowed us to absorb so much money that the monetary base is constant.
	So, we improved.
	the central bank's assets without increasing the central bank's passive.
	Therefore, in this context, we are improving the credit quality of the central bank,
	and that means that the long-term price level is lower, and therefore,
	the inflation, which is the slope of the line that joins the current price level and the future,
	is lower, and therefore, the inflation rate is lower, and in fact,
	the inflation expectations are going down strongly.
	And not only that, but also, you can see it, many investment banks,
	when we arrived at the government, for the coming year, they expected an inflation of around 250%, now they are
	talking about 30%.
	Therefore, the program is working.
	And another important thing is that the changeable gap has disappeared,
	and the dollar's future curve is aligned with the monetary policy
	that the central bank has designed.
	Therefore, we are very optimistic.
	Obviously, an adjustment of these characteristics has an impact on economic activity, and we know that.
	But the good news is that, for example, the mining sector is already growing, Today the Angaza is growing, the agricultural sector, the field is growing, and other sectors are starting to sharply cut the fall rate.
	And the behavior of a short bee is being observed.
	And this is important because we thought this was going to happen at the beginning of the second part of the year and it started to happen now.
	And then there are very interesting things, because although 75% of Argentines recognize that they are worse, Today, look, when we started the management, only 20% believed that we were going to be better throughout the year.
	In January, that number jumped to 30%.
	In February, it jumped to 40%.
	And today it is at 50%.
	In February it jumped to 40% and today it is at 50%.
	That is, half of Argentines believe that we are about to leave.
	When you ask about inflation, 70% of Argentines are convinced that we are going to eradicate inflation.
	And I'm going to go ahead and close this out.
	And also when you, in a cloud of words, group the spontaneous feeling of the Argentinians, the most important word is hope.
	And that, let's say, has two direct consequences.
	One is that my image is the same that I had when I assumed it was the best moment that a president has.
	And on the other hand, if today we went to a second round like the one we had last year, today we would win 58-42.
	But it is important that of those 58 points, they would vote for us in a safe way.
	Today, 48% in the first round.
	That is, even with the hard vote, we have increased it by 60% and we could win in the first round because the person with the most intention of votes after us is Cristina Fernández de Kirchherr with 20.
	And neither could one say that the 10 extra that you get in the second round will get 0.
	If it gets half, it means that we would be getting 53% in the votes.
	And this is the most important thing from my point of view, and I think you will value it in a way.
	Faced with such an adjustment, how can it be that my popularity has increased?
	How can it be that my intention to vote has increased?
	It means that the cultural battle is giving results.
	And the Argentines decided to mature, put on their long pants and once and for all start doing things right.
	And this, then, exceeds the case of Javier Milei.
	It's the Argentines who have decided to embrace freedom.
	And that's the best of the messages.
	And that's what allows us to keep moving forward Because we know that the path from point A to point B was not going to be a straight line, without inconveniences.
	But the important thing is that we are clear about where we want to go.
	So, for example, the Congress of Reforms can approve me or not.
	I don't know if the Congress can approve my reforms or not.
	But if they don't approve them now, I plan to send them in 2025 with a better composition of
	the Congress.
	And then, not only am I going to finish completing the 1,000 reforms that I have already sent, but I'm going to send the 3,000 that I have pending.
	We'll get to more on this in a moment.
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	It's astonishing because you're doing all these audacious things, and people in the West, particularly on the left, are confused by this, because they treat it as something that is anathema.
	There are even people on the right who do not understand the audacity of what you are doing, but precisely the basis of your campaign, capitalism, freedom, private property and freedom, all of this What example should Argentina play in the rest of the West,
	in how it went the wrong way?
	And then we'll look at where the rest of the West went more generally.
	In that sense, we believe that the most important thing was the previous cultural battle.
	All these ideas that the world has been embracing in recent years,
	and this political correction that is nothing more than embracing socialist ideas,
	us.
	I mean, because they are socialisms of different kinds.
	So, in that sense, what one has to find is to realize that Argentina applied all those things.
	The stupidity of social justice, Argentina is an emblematic example of social justice and the damage that social justice causes.
	So, in that sense, what we have to understand Argentina, in that event that made it the richest country in the world, today it is 140, was to embrace those ideas that today the West is embracing.
	That's why in Davos I said, the West is in danger, because we have abandoned in the West the ideas of freedom, which are the ones that generate prosperity, and they began to embrace the ideas of decadence, which are the socialist ideas.
	And in that sense, what happened in Argentina is That he was super impregnated, because this, let's say, Gramsci had worked perfectly for you in Argentina.
	He's involved in education, he's involved in culture, he's involved in politics, he's involved in socialism everywhere.
	He's in the media.
	And so... That's why it's so important the role that young people have had in this whole process.
	Because... Because young people are naturally rebellious against the status quo.
	And in that sense, young people, let's say, being exposed to so much socialism, the natural response was to be liberal.
	That's the first point.
	The second point, being young, they had much less exposure time to the brainwashing of public education.
	On the other hand, another thing that happened is that, as they have access to social networks, One of the things I used to do when I was on television, and I still do today, is to quote my reference authors.
	And what that did was that young people went to check those authors.
	So, between YouTube and Google and others, search engines, I mean, and those places where you can download books, That's what generated an explosion of knowledge.
	In fact, our greatest reference in freedom in Argentine history, Dr. Alberto Venegas Lynch, son, also known as the Prosser, said, he said, the big difference between this movement and the end of the 80s is that this time young people were well-trained.
	In fact, we used to go and do what we call recitals, which would be like political acts, but with a format similar to the Rolling Stones.
	You know, because I like the Rolling Stones and I would have liked to be like Mick Jagger, so I do it, but I do it from politics.
	I didn't make it singing because I'm very bad, but I made it from politics.
	And one of the wonderful things is that There are booths, like in the recitals, with t-shirts, with different gifts, with different things, and there are booths with books.
	In fact, Dr. Woolrich, who was part of the electoral campaign, she, along with El Cambio, and who I am proud to be part of today, of my cabinet of ministers, because he's my Minister of Security, and he's doing a truly formidable job.
	In fact, just like our Minister of Defense, Dr. Petri, let's say, because they were the alternative formula to change, but the Argentines chose a much more radical, deeper, more aggressive change than the one we represented.
	And there's something very interesting, because at one point, Dr. Bullrich said something brilliant, she said, you should pay more attention to what my law is doing, because it's not normal for a politician to be talking to 20,000, 30,000 people about Hayek.
	So, obviously, something was happening.
	I remember, That in the launch of the presidential race in the province of Mendoza, I started to explain the dollarization.
	And I saw from the many articles that I have given, one of the ones I gave was monetary theory.
	I am an expert in economic growth with and without money.
	So I can teach growth classes, I can teach money classes, or growth with and without money.
	And one of the complex problems that I've had to explain in my courses on monetary theory is the problem of nominal anchor.
	In fact, the vast majority of economists don't understand it well.
	And in that sense, I was in Mendoza in front of 20,000 people, And at one point, I'm explaining the nominal anchor in front of 20,000 people.
	And when I became aware of it, I said, this can't be happening.
	In my case, I said, I'm giving a class of nominal anchor in front of 20,000 people.
	So that was also very strong.
	And then, like everything, You should know, Ben, that the Chinese have a symbol, that crisis also means opportunity.
	And that's what happened with the pandemic.
	Because that led not only to a revaluation of freedom, for which we had The ideas, the message, just in the right moment.
	But also, there is a great work that the young people did in their homes.
	Because they began to evangelize their parents and their grandparents.
	So, what happens?
	When you don't like what you see on TV, you have the remote control and you change it.
	Now, when your children start telling you, my law, my law, my law, once, you didn't hear it twice, no, but you don't have remote control for your children.
	So, sooner or later, they managed to get their parents to listen to me, and this is what has allowed me to explain this success.
	But what you have to understand is that this would not have been possible if the cultural battle had not taken place.
	When I started giving the talks, there were between 10 and 15 people.
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	So, there's a philosophy that's arisen in the West, in the sense that the hope of your country is rejected.
	And that philosophy is that if you fail in life, if you fail in the free system, it's because in some way you've been victimized.
	And I think one of the reasons, perhaps, why Argentinians have more hope is that they are regaining control of their own lives.
	When you extend that policy to foreign policy, you end up with a failure as well.
	You've done that in your country as well.
	You've been reorienting your country and moving it away from certain countries and bringing it more to the West.
	The United States, Europe, Israel, maybe you can talk a little bit about that.
	You also talked about moving the embassy in Israel to Jerusalem.
	What's the importance of all this?
	A ver, vamos por partes.
	Thank you.
	Because if you look at what I told you at the beginning, Ben, I told you, the Argentines matured.
	The Argentines put on their long pants.
	Well, that means they understood That the fault of what's happening to us, we can't be blaming it on the rest.
	Nor blame it on the United States, nor blame it on Europe, nor blame it, let's say, on the Monetary Fund, or anything.
	In fact, one of the elements that I raised during the campaign, has to do with the fact that I said, that unlike the remaining politicians, when it comes to the elections, the traditional politician, He asks you for the vote so that you give him the power to control your life.
	That is, he treats you like a child.
	He treats you even worse than a teenager.
	And in that sense, what we were saying is, we don't want to do that.
	What we say is, we don't want to do that.
	When we ask for the vote, it is to give you back your freedom
	and to be the architect of your own destiny.
	That, I say, for the first part of the argument that you have raised around this attitude, let's say, of the Argentines and how it has been changing.
	In that sense, we have decided to embrace the values of the West.
	And embracing the ideas of the West is embracing the ideas of the founding fathers of the United States, In fact, the constitution of the United States has a lot to do with the original constitution of Argentina of Juan Bautista Alberti of the year 1853.
	in 1853, which in fact when it was launched in 1860, Argentina, being a country of barbarians,
	in 35 years became the first world power.
	So, embracing the values of the West is a fundamental element to become a developed country again.
	In fact, the 1,000 reforms that we sent in the first month, if all of them remained in force, Argentina would go on to improve 90 positions in the ranking of economic freedom.
	And Argentina could look like Germany in a span of 20 years.
	And if you look at what I said a while ago, I said, well, but those are 1,000 reforms, we still have 3,000 more.
	In fact, what we are looking for is to look like Ireland.
	Ireland must be the most miserable country in Europe in a period of 30 to 40 years.
	Today, let's say, it has a GDP that is 50% higher than that of the United States.
	That's the model.
	That's what we want to do.
	And that means embracing the ideas of freedom.
	The ideas of freedom are in the United States, even when in recent times they have been degraded and have moved away
	from the path.
	They are still in Europe, even when they are overwhelmed by regulations that keep them stuck.
	But above all things, those values are in Israel.
	And in Israel they are In the second book of the Torah, in Shemot, that is, in Exodus.
	And without a doubt, the greatest hero of freedom of all times is Moses.
	So, that's why it's so important to understand the link of freedom with Israel.
	It's fundamental.
	Because it's a people that has also achieved... I can't find the word, but it would be like the conjunction between the spiritual and the material.
	And that spiritual-material harmony generates progress.
	When I gave my talks before entering politics, in the latter part I talked about the moral superiority of capitalism.
	I originally believed that socialism was like a kind of mental illness.
	In other words, they had some problem in understanding or something.
	Because, having been defeated in theory, and having been defeated in empirical evidence, because where socialism was applied in pure format was a failure in economics, in social, in cultural, and in addition, 150 million human beings were murdered.
	It didn't occur to me how it could be that there were people who adhered to those murderous and impoverishing ideas.
	I mean, socialism is always and everywhere an impoverishing phenomenon, a murderous phenomenon.
	And so, I kept developing this, and the answer was given to me by the economic theory, and it has to do with the theory of value.
	When you go to the end of the debate, you find the dispute between the subjective theory of value And the objective theory of value.
	So the question is, why can't they get out of the objective theory of value?
	It's that they can't get out of the objective theory of value because the objective theory of value is what allows to apply the theory of the exploitation of Robertus, improved by Marx with the concept of plus value.
	And then the reason is, why do they apply that?
	And that's where their moral values appear, which are envy, hatred, resentment, treatment of others the same against the law, and, if necessary, murder.
	And the institutions that emerge from those moral values are filthy, and as a consequence of that, you're going to sink.
	While when you embrace the ideas of freedom, what happens?
	You rise as a human being.
	And in that, You go to institutions that lead you to progress.
	Because you, in capitalism, can only be successful by serving others.
	A better quality suits you, a better price.
	I mean, you're a social benefactor.
	You're the champion of love for others.
	So, in that sense, that's why I also, let's say, beyond, let's say, different events that throughout my life, They have strongly impacted me and they have led me towards Judaism.
	The set of values are fundamental for the construction of institutions.
	And the day you read about Moses, you become a Taliban of freedom.
	What he says clearly appears in Adam Smith.
	He spoke of moral sentiments before he spoke of the wealth of nations, the idea that man is made in the image and likeness of God, the idea of equality before the law, which also comes from the Bible, the issue of property.
	All that comes from the Bible, after all, and that's the context of capitalism.
	And you talk about this so eloquently, but in the United States, your image is you, marking the ministries and saying,
	out, out, out, or the video in which he is with the chainsaw.
	How do you reconcile that?
	How can you be those two people, the one who speaks so eloquently about the economy,
	and talk about interest rates so in detail, and at the same time be the person who has no problem
	going to the stage with the chainsaw?
	Well, that's more complex.
	Because it's true, I'm a professional economist, but...
	But I have some very dark parts of my life.
	For example, at one time in my life I was a soccer goalkeeper.
	And that, for example, is a very determining factor in my personality.
	For example, of the 11 players on the team, he's the only one who can play with his hands.
	Legally.
	At the same time, he's the one who dresses differently.
	Besides, he trains alone.
	He has a different training.
	And unlike the rest, when he makes a mistake, it's a goal against him.
	And it's also a very ungrateful position, because when a goalkeeper saves a goal, it's equivalent to scoring one.
	And when a striker scores a goal, it's a goal.
	However, strikers are worth a lot more than goalkeepers.
	So, that shows that it is a position that is very hard to carry and that requires a very fierce personality.
	And if you look at what my electoral campaign was, there is no historical record of someone who has been so violently assaulted in an electoral campaign, violating all the rules of an electoral campaign, Where they have gotten involved with aspects of my private life, they have lied, they have insulted me, slandered me, they have gotten involved with my sister, with my parents, they have even gotten involved with my dogs.
	I mean, let's say, the worst cloaca in the universe is in the Argentine media.
	I mean, they were functional to two huge party structures to Destroy a person.
	But that strength that I had as an archer was what allowed me, let's say, to keep standing, added to the spiritual contention, let's say, that represents my sister and my rabbi Axel Vanish.
	That, on the one hand.
	On the other hand, on the other hand, even darker in my life, I was a singer in a rock'n'roll band.
	In fact, we were a tribute band to the Rolling Stones.
	And we basically did covers of the Rolling Stones.
	We did things that looked like songs.
	Being very generous.
	But the truth is that with so much affection and affection that I have for the Rolling Stones, it seemed to me that it was better to leave so much damage on a band that I love so much.
	But then there is a histrionic question linked to that, and I also had a play, which was called El consultorio de mi ley, And that it was basically an economy talk in a psychology therapy format.
	And I think that all that conjunction of elements in a certain situation in the country allowed someone with my characteristics to become popular.
	In fact, if you go through my lectures, before I joined La Política, I would come in as if I were in a rock and roll recital.
	And it was very interesting, because I would start by thanking them, saying, thank you very much for so much type 2 error.
	Because type 1 error is when you do everything right and it goes wrong.
	And type 2 error is when you do everything wrong and it goes right.
	So, being an economist is not very popular.
	Being an antipathic economist, much less.
	A specialist in economic growth, much less in a country that was sick with Keynesianism.
	We'll get to more on this in just one moment.
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	So, how has it been moving from the world of commentary to the world of politics, from the media to the world of politics?
	I, of course, I'm in the United States, I talk to legislators all the time, talking about what it is to say the things that you really want to say, and then in the world of politics, you have to say the things you can say.
	Has it been very difficult, the transition from, for example, commentaries in panels, to being president?
	No.
	In fact, just as I went to the panels, I continued to teach at the university and gave lectures in very large theaters.
	And with my sister we noticed that we were becoming more popular because not only did we fill very large theaters in Argentina, but we also did it abroad.
	So, the cultural battle was working very well, and in reality, television was a way of advertising my work, and that allowed me to generate more conferences and earn more money.
	But when Alberto Fernández came to power, One of his advisors, someone who is now a congressman, Leandro Santoro, was asking the media to censor him.
	And, in fact, there began to be censorship of liberals.
	They stopped inviting them to the shows and there were 20 liberals going around the media The number has shrunk substantially.
	I think we're lucky to be five, but that's an exaggeration.
	And the only thing that kept me going was the rating.
	I mean, people followed me with the rating.
	And when we saw how the censorship was getting very deep, my sister and I considered that it could be affecting our ability to generate income.
	And then, faced with that situation, we said, well, these people have to be disputed where it hurts them.
	And that's when we decided to get involved in politics, which was also very complicated, because first they said that we couldn't form a party, and we did.
	Then they said that we couldn't pass the passes, that is, that we weren't going to get 2% of the votes.
	Then they told us we were going to lose against Voto en Blanco.
	Then they told us we were going to lose against Esquerda por Goliada.
	And in the end we ended up getting 17% of the votes, let's say, in the federal capital.
	And when we assumed, they also treated us very rudely, On the channel of the Congress, which is called Congreso TV, Diputados TV, a journalist that I knew from A24, in a very aggressive way, told me, well, but what can you do if there are only going to be two deputies in 257?
	and they were going to be two deputies in 257.
	And I answered him with the book of Maccabees 1, 319, which says that victory in war does not depend on the
	number of soldiers, but on the forces that come from heaven.
	And when...
	And when, for an extraordinary, great, fabulous idea of my sister, we raffled off the diet, a million people signed up.
	And we went, we did an event in Mar del Plata, and there were more than 10,000 people.
	And then we went to Rosario and there were 15,000 people.
	And that's when we decided that this was the right time to run for president.
	to launch us into the presidency.
	And we did it, and we have had presentations,
	I think the one in Cordoba, the one in Rosario And probably the one in Córdoba surpassed 200,000 people.
	And we ended up winning against all odds by 12 points of difference.
	of the world.
	And every time they brought us a ballot box, there was more than 3-4% that we threw away.
	We said, this can't be, and we threw it away.
	we were shooting.
	And...
	And it was very interesting because at one point
	a bunch of friends from the school came to say hello.
	And there were a lot of us.
	We were all with our equipment, praying.
	And at that moment, the president of the House of Representatives called me.
	The deputy Cecilia Mourão.
	And she passes me with Sergio Massa.
	And she tells me, well, that I was going to be going on stage in a few minutes to acknowledge that we had won.
	And there, let's say, how did we win?
	I mean, it was, OK, we won.
	We won, and we all started to celebrate.
	And in that context, well, I don't know, And well, now we're doing honor to what we said in the campaign.
	And now we are doing honor to what we said in the campaign.
	Because if there is something that characterizes me, it is that I say what I think and do what I say.
	And we said we were going to do this.
	to do.
	People are clear, we always told them, we campaigned saying we were going to adjust.
	We campaigned with the chainsaw.
	We said, outside, and we arrived and we took the number of ministries to half.
	That is, there was intense outside.
	And we also said that we were going to make a very strong adjustment and that we were going to suffer in the first stage, but that later we were going to get out.
	And all that is being fulfilled.
	And that's why people support us, because we had the courage to tell them the truth.
	And that's why the political caste is disoriented.
	Because they always deceived people and always told them what they wanted to hear.
	And we told them that we were going to do what we had to do to get out of this pit.
	That's why I think the important fact is that I have the feeling that Argentine society has matured and has decided to embrace the ideas of freedom to definitely get ahead.
	I want your list of favorite authors.
	Who are your favorite economists?
	My favorite authors, without a doubt, are Murray and Newton Rothbard.
	Also, let's say, I feel an enormous pleasure when I read Ludwig von Mises.
	Obviously, Fredrik von Hayek.
	And I say later, well, in more friendly readings, for example, Walter Block or Henry Haslitt, Or, let's say, more in the Chicago line, read Gary Baker, or read Milton Friedman, or Robert Lucas Jr., or also other institutional authors, such as Buchanan.
	as in the case of Buchanan.
	So I would say that this would be the central core of my readings,
	or more towards the philosophical, as could be the case of Hans Gemma Hoppe,
	or be the case, for example, of Ayn Rand or Robert Nozick, and obviously the authors of consecrated Spanish speech,
	as in the case of Alberto Benesgalinch, son, or as in the case of Jesus Huerta de Soto,
	or Miguel Ancelo Bastos.
	President, I have the last question for you, because I know it has to run, it has a very intense agenda.
	The eyes of the world are in Argentina and you, because if you manage to transform Argentina, this is not going to be just a model for the rest of Latin America, which is experiencing that pink wave and moving in the wrong direction, but also for the West, because Argentina is a good warning story, right?
	And you, and the people in Argentina can be an example.
	We are convinced that despite the enormous effort we are making, we are going to move forward and we are going to create the foundations for Argentina to become great again.
	We are going to move forward and we are going to create the foundations for Argentina to
	become great again.
	And we believe that this is going to be a very important lesson to abandon socialist ideas
	or to abandon the idea of the people.
	Or, if you prefer, statists.
	For me, they're the same thing.
	I mean, let's say, statists are socialists of a different kind.
	But I think the case of Argentina is a case of study, because if we, in the face of such a decadent situation, manage to spread this decadence, We will not only improve the lives of the Argentinians, but
	we will improve the lives of all humanity.
	And that is a huge challenge, and it is worth fighting to the last drop of blood.
	Thank you so much for this interview.
	of time and of course we hope for the best. Thank you very much.
	It has been a real pleasure for me Ben, thank you very much for this interview. Thank you.
	Thank you.
	The Ben Shapiro Show Sunday special is produced by Savannah Dominguez-Morris.
	Associate producer is Jake Pollock.
	Editing is by Jim Nickel.
	Audio is mixed by Mike Corimina.
	Post-production is managed by Matt Kemp.
	Camera and lighting is by Zach Ginta.
	Hair, makeup, and wardrobe by Fabiola Cristina.
	Title graphics are by Cynthia Angulo.
	Executive assistant, Kelly Carvalho.
	Executive in charge of production is David Wormus.
	Executive producer, Justin Siegel.
	Executive producer, Jeremy Boring.

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