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Oct. 31, 2024 - Brother Nathanael
01:08:22
Episode 44: 'I'm Acquainted Putin' Interview with Archbishop Gabriel
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Time Text
Thank you.
Hey, here we go. here we go.
I have a very special guest on today, and I'm more than honored to be interviewing as soon as I bring him up on my screen.
Let me go to my stream deck.
And this is Archbishop Gabriel.
Your blessing be upon me and all the listeners, dear Bariga.
And Art, let me give a short bio.
Archbishop Gabriel serves as the Bishop of Canada with the Russian Orthodox Church outside Russia, that is Rokor, which is under the Patriarch of Moscow and all Russia, that would be the Patriarch Kirill.
Now, about Archbishop Gabriel, upon graduating Holy Trinity Seminary in New York in 1984, he became an instructor of Russian culture at the seminary.
From 1984 and 1989, and I do want to point out that his master's thesis was on Peter the Great, and he shows in this thesis.
Do I have that right, Barika?
No, that was my actual thesis as my Bachelor of Theology Studies.
So I did begin a master's program, but that was not on that subject.
Okay, but I did want to bring this out that he brings out on Peter the Great because he has the Russian angle on things and not the conventional narrative that Peter the Great was a bad guy and all that.
He brings out in this thesis The heroic ending of Peter the Great, but maybe we'll talk about that.
We'll see.
Now, after serving as an assistant to his superiors, Archbishop Gabriel was ordained as a hero monk, that's a monk who's a priest, and soon consecrated as a bishop in 1996.
Steeped in the history and culture of Russia and a frequent visitor to Russia.
Archbishop Gabriel speaks with authority on the religio-political scenario of the Russian Federation, of which he and his peers to this day still call Holy Russia.
And I'm getting chills just talking about it.
In his Monarchy Must Come to Russia, Monarchy Must Come to Russia, Archbishop Gabriel reveals a penetrating perspective on world events, and he's still got it today.
Okay, here we go.
First question.
You know Putin personally, so I have heard.
You met him in New York City when he first became president of the Russian Federation, right after Yeltsin's administration.
Tell us, Archbishop Gabriel, what was your initial impression of Putin?
And maybe tell us about how you met him and what went on there with this meeting with him.
Yeah, the first time I actually met him was in 2001.
It was shortly after 9-11, and he was invited to come to speak in D.C. at the Russian embassy.
And obviously he was invited well before 9-11 happened, but he came.
It was quite a turnout there.
I think at that time he was greeted very warmly by the Representatives of the government and just generally by the media.
And I was introduced after his talk.
There were a group of people that were allowed to meet him personally, and seeing as I was sent to represent Rokor, Our synod, our bishops, I was also given the chance to meet him and speak very briefly for probably about 30-40 seconds, and that was it.
And so the next time that we had the chance to meet, and that was when he himself had expressed the desire to meet with our bishops, Bishops of Rokor in New York when he came, I believe, for his first session as president of Russia, his first session at the UN. And he expressed, like I said, the desire to meet with us, and we did at the Russian consulate.
It was only two blocks from where our church is located in Manhattan on the Upper East Side.
And he spoke with us for about 40 minutes.
We just sat at the table, discussed different issues.
I think, first and foremost, his main objective was to help unite the two churches, the two churches, that is, the church in Russia and Rokhod's church outside of Russia, which had split away from the official church back in the 20s.
When we know the church was persecuted, it was not free, and so we represented the free part of the Russian church outside of Russia.
And for the longest time, of course, almost 100 years, well, maybe less, we had not really communicated or served or celebrated, and he felt it would be important and significant if he could help in healing the rift.
And working towards a union.
So that's why he expressed initially the interest to meet with us, with the bishops, and to discuss that possibility and other questions that we may have.
And I remember specifically when we were sitting at the table in 2003 and I asked him, President Putin, I said, we are sort of emigres, basically, our church is It consists of emigres or those whose parents or grandparents left Russia after the revolution, and we always consider ourselves to be the free part of the Russian church during those hard Soviet times.
And I said to him that we feel it important that a day be allocated to remember all the victims of Soviet repression.
That is all those who were martyred for the faith, and there are certainly many thousands, and not just for the faith, but those who were killed during these very dark years of Soviet oppression, especially in the 30s under Stalin.
And he agreed that this was certainly worth considering and said that he would discuss it with the patriarch upon his return to Moscow, but I'm not sure that ever took place, or in any case, we don't really still have that kind of day, which marks the The martyrdom and the oppression of these Russians.
But of course, we do have, as we know, a day when the new martyrs are remembered.
There is a special day.
Our church canonized these new martyrs back in 1981.
And there is a day in February when we remember them and pray to them now as martyrs and intercessors for us before God.
Amen.
Well, you show me before the stream a picture of you and Putin.
Can you show the viewers this?
Yeah, sure.
This is actually the photo was taken during the first meeting with Putin in 2001 at the Russian embassy in Washington, D.C. That's you there.
That's me, much younger and blacker.
And then there's a much younger President Putin and the ambassador, of course, Russian ambassador in DC. Hold it a little higher, and I want to focus in on it.
See that?
Yeah, that's good.
A little higher.
Let me focus in on that.
There is Archbishop Gabriel in 2003, a little younger.
2001.
That was 2001.
There's Vladimir Putin in 2001, also a little younger.
And let's hope that all of us are a little wiser, and we're going to talk more about Archbishop Gabriel's encounter with Putin, and he goes to Russia regularly, where Putin speaks before the bishops.
I want to ask you this, Archbishop.
As a human being, let's put aside the politics and his title and his position.
What was your impression of Vladimir Putin just as a man?
I thought he would...
I thought he was very sincere in his conversation with us.
I think, you know, he had obviously objectives.
Putin is a doer.
He's a man that likes to achieve his goals and his objectives.
And I think the objective of helping to unite the two churches was certainly first and foremost on his agenda with regards to us.
And I thought that he was very friendly, like I said, sincere.
Well, very well disposed towards us, and I think that we've made us feel at ease with him.
And then, of course, after the meeting that we had with him, when we sat for 40 minutes, basically, just discussing after that, we were invited to have dinner with him.
In another room of the consulate there in New York.
And we spent another, probably an hour or so with him, continuing, just having friendly conversations, no agenda basically.
And his closest aides later told us, you know, he didn't spend so much time with presidents during that UN meeting as he did with you.
So, you know, we were obviously honored that he gave us that time.
Now in 2003, if I'm not mistaken, didn't you give him a private tour of the Sonato headquarters on East 93rd and Park on the Upper East Side?
That's right.
He expressed the interest to visit us again upon his second visit to the UN, and this time he wanted to come to our church.
He wanted to venerate the icon that we have there, the holy icon, and he did so.
And we were told, I asked actually, at that time I was Bishop of Manhattan, And I asked his aides, I said, would it be proper to invite him to have some tea and cookies or whatever?
And they said, oh, no, no, he's too busy.
He'll be shooting off right after this, so there's no time.
But I thought I'd ask him anyway.
So after the official part of the meeting was over in church, I said, President Putin, would you like to have some tea with us?
And he said, yes, certainly, I'd love to.
And so...
And we had the sisterhood all ready to, just in case, that he said yes.
And so we're ready to make the tea and whatever and offer us some cookies and whatever else.
So yeah, some refreshments.
Go ahead.
A lot of people want to call him a cold candle holder.
I guess that's a Russian expression for someone who goes to the church, holds a candle, lights a candle, but it's all very cold and it's all for pose.
And he has been attacked by many that his part in the Russian Orthodox Church It's just PR, that he's really not sincere.
But you know him, you've met him.
Is he sincerely a member and an active member of the Russian Orthodox Church?
Or is it a show?
I don't think it's a show, and I think one has to always remember that he grew up in the Soviet Union when religion obviously was still found upon.
He worked for the KGB, and obviously that was impossible to be a churchgoer or to even be a believer at that time.
But I think when it became possible to do so, I sincerely believe that he...
Return to his roots, you might say.
He always liked to mention that he wears the cross that he was given to him by his grandmother, and he still does to this day.
And also, you know, he obviously, according to his schedule, can't attend church maybe as regularly as others do, but certainly he makes every effort to do so on Christmas and on Easter and other holidays.
And I have to mention also that when I was at On the island of Valam, which is of course one of Russia's holy places that people like to visit.
It's a monastic community there that also was closed down during the Soviet years but came back into existence in the 90s.
When we visited there, without him that is, I made a pilgrimage there with some people and The abbot of that monastic community told us, he said, you know, President Putin likes to be here, and he is here much more often than is shown on television or just in the media, because he likes to keep it private.
So he does love to visit that monastery in Wallam, and they even said that he gifted them sort of big boat, almost a yacht, because he really, really loves to be there.
And word has it that he is spiritual father, that is the priest that he confesses to, the monk priest, is also to be found there on Wallam.
Can I also mention this?
This was actually something that was noted by an American journalist back, I believe it was 2013.
I don't remember which paper that was, but I remember him saying, in reference to Putin and his sort of religious Well, just basically his faith in God.
He said, let's make a comparison.
He said, on Christmas Day of that year, where was President Obama to be found?
He was to be found on a beach in Hawaii.
Where was President Putin on Christmas Day?
He was in church, picking up a candle.
So, you know, I think worth noting.
How about this?
How about Obama eating an ice cream cone and Putin doing a judo exhibition?
Yeah, that's not religious.
All right, I just had to get that in there.
All right, you say that you saw in the humanity, the man, Putin, an achiever.
And he did try to achieve something to bring Rokor back into the unity of the Russian church in Russia.
And I would say he had a large part in that.
What is he achieving?
Since you know the Russian sources, so you know the inside info that we don't get here in America, what is he achieving in Ukraine?
Well, you know, with regards to Ukraine, I think it's perhaps not so much what he is achieving, obviously.
We believe.
I think the whole world can see that it seems like Ukrainians are giving up more and more ground, and it seems like victory for Russia seems imminent.
But one has to ask the question why Russia went into Ukraine initially to begin with.
Let's not forget that Putin has always said he does not want war.
And ever since 2014, when the revolution took place in Ukraine, the Maidan revolution, We know that Ukraine became very antagonistic towards Russia and towards Putin, and wanted to basically sever not only ties with Russia, but also make the Ukrainian people forget about speaking Russian, forget about their Russian culture and background and so forth.
Because let's not forget these two peoples, these are brother nations.
They come from the same sort of roots.
Ukrainians and Russians.
Let's not forget that.
And also, of course, sharing the same Orthodox faith.
And so when the revolution took place in 2014, there was a regime change in Ukraine.
And certainly we know that was not without the help of certain countries.
And one has to ask, what was the objective of sort of making Ukraine be at war with Russia, you know, if not literally, at least, you know, from just a diplomatic standpoint.
And so we know that the Donetsk and Lugansk regions in Ukraine Who comprised mostly of Russian speakers and people of that background did not accept and did not agree with the regime change in Ukraine and Kyiv and refused to accept the new regime.
And so, of course, as we know, as a result, the Kyiv regime began to just constantly, regularly Bomb these areas, you know, and kill thousands and thousands of people, which unfortunately wasn't really covered by the Western media.
You know, they, you know, deliberately, I would even say, chose not to cover all of those thousands of people who were killed over that period of eight years, from 2014 until 2022.
And when the Minsk Accords were agreed upon in 2015, and as we know, Germany and France took place in that meeting, as well as Putin and Zelensky.
Actually, at that time, it was probably Poroshenko still.
But in any case, as we know, those Minsk Accords had one objective as far as Russia was concerned, and that is to stop the shelling of these innocent civilians and the Donetsk-Livansk regions Who did not accept the regime change in Kiev in 2014.
And it was agreed upon that these countries and the West would help Kiev make that decision to stop the shelling, to stop the shooting, the fighting and killing of innocent civilians.
But we know, as we see, that that was just a fiasco.
No one ever, you know, as far as Russia was concerned, it kept its end of the day.
Why didn't Putin go in right away?
Why did he wait so long?
Well, because I think, I would say, it's fair to say that they were hoping for diplomacy, to take the upper hand and to be able to achieve something without having to go to war, having to attack, having to invade.
And I think, unfortunately, that did not happen.
The diplomacy failed because no one really was keeping their end of the bargain on that side.
Russia did, but not, unfortunately, Ukraine and the others.
And it continues chilling.
And so, you know, as a result, thousands of people, women and children, you know, included, were killed by the Ukrainian forces.
And this is before the war of 2022.
So, you know, it came to a head, basically, where, you know, Russia was just forced to take action to protect its People in Donetsk and Lugansk.
And so that's why, you know, this has been reiterated by Putin and others, you know, how many times, and yet nobody seems to hear that, that, you know, they were forced, you know, to take the action that they did.
There's still a feeling amongst the Ukrainian people that they are brother and sister.
With the Russian people?
Are there many relatives in Kiev?
Just in Kiev with people in Russia?
Are there families still that are related to each other?
Is there still this strong connection, this sentiment in Ukraine?
Well, I think the nationalist sort of movement in Ukraine, of course, does not recognize that and refuses to recognize that, you know, they come from the same, as we say, baptismal font.
But on the other hand, of course, those that live in the Donetsk and the Lugansk regions, which refuse to recognize the regime change and who, of course, were You know, subjected to the constant shelling and killings.
They, of course, very much understand their background and understand that they want to keep, you know, they're Russianists, they want to keep their language.
Okay, what about the closings and the persecution of the Russian Orthodox Church?
That the Bandarites, the nationalist leaders there that seem to be controlling Zelenskyy, Why isn't Putin, why isn't the Patriarch trying to do something about this?
I mean, it's just disturbing to see this happening.
The closing and the persecution of the Russian Orthodox Church in Ukraine.
Well, I think The patriarch is pretty much powerless to do anything because, you know, it's now become a political issue, and obviously the regime in Kiev wants to be rid of the church that they feel has connections to Moscow, even though they declared their sort of Well, what can Putin do?
Why is he sitting back?
Which it seems to me he is.
Perhaps Putin has been criticized this by the more sort of, how would you say, nationalist-minded Russians and politicians who feel that maybe more should be done just generally with regards to the special military operation.
And I think this is something that should be also emphasized.
From the very outset, Putin has said that they're not targeting civilians in this military operations.
They're targeting military targets.
And one could even go further to say, if that was their objective, if they were indiscriminately bombing, which they do not, As some other countries do, as we know, then they could have bombed Kiev the first week of the war, and the game would have been over.
They had the capacity to do that.
They did not.
They didn't want to kill, as Trudna said, their own brothers and sisters.
They didn't want to kill civilians, grandmothers, children, and they still do not do that.
So let's also be mindful of that.
Let's be fair.
Let's be objective, at least.
From your point of view, with your contacts in Russia and you reading the Russian sources, I'm sure you don't go to the English-speaking ones.
You go right to the Russians.
Is Zelensky doomed?
Is it over for him?
Are the Ukrainian people going to just kill him?
Is he going to flee?
Maybe go to Miami Beach if he's got a condo there?
Is Zelensky doomed, from your point of view, from what you see?
Well, it seems to me that if Ukraine loses, then obviously I don't think he will remain in power.
And I think he's also becoming less and less popular with his own people because people want to see an end to this conflict, this military operation, this war.
And one would like to think that if Zelensky was really concerned about his own people, then he would have made every effort to put an end to this war.
But even back in April of 2022, if you remember, was the first attempt at peace talks at which Russia was present.
But Ukraine was basically told, perhaps, or convinced by others that, no, you need to keep fighting.
And which they have.
And two years later, hundreds of thousands of soldiers later who were killed in this military operation, he continues to instead of seeking peace, he's asking for more weapons.
So what does that say?
I mean, what do you think the people would think of a ruler who, instead of seeking peace to end the war and the bloodshed, continues to ask for more munitions?
And as we know, in the end, it's It's probably going to end up in failure anyway and defeat.
So isn't it better?
And wouldn't it behoove all the world leaders as well to think about how we can achieve peace?
And when we have some European leaders, that is, leaders of the EU, who do call upon these leaders to think about peace rather than continue sending aid, military aid and munitions, they are ostracized.
They are made to feel that they're not part of the team.
Is this going to drag on this Ukraine conflict, or is it going to end soon?
Is Trump going to end it?
From the Russian point of view, do they want to just get this thing done and over with?
Well, we all, of course, hope and pray that it will be over, because everybody wants to see peace, and first and foremost, of course, the Church.
But I think that Trump has mentioned on a number of occasions that if he's elected, he will end the war.
How he plans to do that, I don't know, but at least he has those good intentions.
Of seeking peace, whereas we see that on the other side, the other party is saying, well, we're going to continue to support Ukraine.
How will that support be manifested in the continuing supply of military aid, of munitions, of bombs?
You know, is this what we should be seeking?
Is this what we should be talking about?
And I think that the media should also be mindful of this, because the more this drags on, then perhaps one should even think about the possibility that it brings us closer to a nuclear war, which no one wants.
And Putin himself has said just the other day, he said, no one wants a nuclear war.
Nobody wants to continue fighting.
You brought up the two parties.
Now recently, and I couldn't figure this out, and I was confused.
Putin was speaking to a big audience of Russians, and in Russian, so maybe it was lost in the translation for me, he seemed to have come out in favor of Kamala Harris.
Then I saw the Russian audience started laughing.
I couldn't figure this thing out.
Why would they laugh if he said, he seemed to say that he favors Kamala Harris, and I just didn't get it.
Do you?
What was going on there?
Well, I think we need to go back even a little further, a couple of months when Biden was still running for his second term.
And when Putin was asked at that time, who do you favor in the coming election, Biden or Trump?
He said Biden.
And of course, that raised a lot of eyebrows.
Well, why would he say that?
And we know that he's answered, well, because Biden is predictable, whereas probably maybe he feels...
Biden is what?
I missed that.
It's predictable, you know, in his actions, whereas maybe he doesn't feel Trump is.
And of course, he also mentioned that under the Trump regime, more sanctions were placed on Russia than at any other time.
So he's obviously mindful of that.
And so when he was asked about the second time already, when Kamala was running, and he said, oh, well, you know, she's such a happy person, she keeps on laughing.
So things must be great in her life, and so maybe she'll probably make a good president.
But maybe that was kind of tongue-in-cheek.
I didn't know that he really meant that.
But in any case, he did for a second time support the Democrats.
And so when people, even now, like today I read that there are new accusations that Russia is meddling, or Russia, you know, this collusion, In the elections, like there was back in 2016 and 2020, well, that's ridiculous because that would then obviously indicate that he's trying to help Trump win.
Well, in actual fact, he's already twice supported the Democrats, so there you go.
That's great.
I want to get to BRICS, okay?
That was big news, huge news last week, the BRICS, okay?
And there was a big conference in Kazan, which as I understand is pretty close to Moscow.
And tell me, this BRICS, what...
I'm going to ask you two questions here.
What is Putin's role in BRICS, and why are people saying that BRICS is the game changer?
I seem to see that Alexander Dugan is calling it the game changer, and this global political analyst, Pepe Escobar, is also saying this is the game changer.
And they're saying this is going to topple or replace Western hegemony, Western global influence, particularly the United States as a unipolar hegemon.
Is BRICS really a game changer?
I'm not sure.
I'm not sure either, but I think when I just have to look at the membership of BRICS at the present time, I don't know how many have already joined and wanting to join.
But what has to be obviously noted, and everyone I think knows it, that was even I think noted by Guterres, President of the United Nations, who said that, or Secretary of the United Nations, he said that, you know, BRICS now represents almost half the population of the whole world.
That is the membership of BRICS. And I forget what percent of the GDP, but certainly very significant.
So I think, obviously, the G7 and the Western powers have to take notice.
And as Putin and the others have said, look, we want to work with the G7. We want to work with our partners in the West.
It's not as if we're doing this in spite.
It's just an alternative, so to speak.
But that's my take on it.
Okay.
China is atheistic.
It's communist.
Putin is Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, and we know that Putin is doing everything he can to promote that, bring families into the church, grow the church.
We know he builds churches.
We know he's a devout, as you say, a very devout member of the Orthodox Church.
Why is he so buddy-buddy with this communist, Xi Jinping?
I got his name right.
You see him like they're hugging and they kiss, you know, in Russian style.
Why would he be so buddy-buddy with this atheist?
I don't get it.
Well, you know, I mean, this is the way politics works, right?
I mean, politics is politics, you know, religion is religion.
You know, he is a Russian Orthodox Christian.
He does not hide it.
But, you know, when he has to do business with other world powers, you know, China, India, and the others, you know, that is laid aside.
I mean, you know, one's religion or one's beliefs, Because as in the business world, they say business is business.
And I think that's what it's all about.
And I think that it's just absolutely normal for him to behave that way.
He's not going to be meeting with the Chinese leader and saying, oh, you're a communist or you're an atheist.
You know, that's not going to do anything for the relationship or for business between China and Russia.
So I think, you know, We've got to separate, you know, these things and understand that diplomacy is diplomacy.
All right, I'm trying to see the contrast between the culture and the social scenario of America and Europe with Russia.
I'm just going to ask you this.
Are there gay parades in Russia?
No, they're not, because they're outlawed.
It's against the law.
And Putin has made that quite clear, not only Putin, but I think the Duma, that is Russia's parliament, that they will not allow them.
And that's not to say that they're somehow, well, I mean, In a way, opposed to relationships that people choose to have.
Because there is still freedom in Russia, obviously, and there is freedom in Russia, and people, as Putin said, are free to do what they want to do behind doors.
But he said, but don't.
Don't ram down our throats the agenda.
He wants the children to be able to grow up in an environment which is conducive to, you know, family values.
And then he said, let them make their own decision.
So it's not to say that, yes, okay, the gay parades are outlawed, but that doesn't mean that Gay people are persecuted and imprisoned, or beaten up, whatever else.
Maybe they are, but that happens in any country, doesn't it?
Yeah, but I saw, maybe four years ago, that a bunch of Europeans came into either St.
Petersburg, I think it was Moscow, and they started this gay parade.
And it was on film, and you can't deny it.
The police stood down.
They just watched as these Russian men started beating them up to a pulp.
No, they're all laying on the ground, all these European homosexuals, and now the police come in and load them into a paddy wagon.
Now, I've mentioned this to a young convert from the Protestant church.
She's Orthodox.
I told him about this and showing that the Russians don't tolerate this stuff.
So he says, oh, they did this.
That wasn't very Christian.
I said, what do you mean?
This is bringing this homosexual perversion out in public.
They need to do something like this.
What's your take on that?
Well, of course, as Christians, we can't allow that.
We can't allow violence, and that doesn't solve anything.
And so it's one thing to outlaw gay parades, but it's another thing to use force of violence against anyone.
So definitely, we should be against that, and there's no place for that.
But by the same token, I think that the West has to respect, at least, because it's not just Russia.
You take all the other countries in, let's say, the Muslim world.
I mean, try to have a gay parade in Saudi Arabia.
Or Iran.
It won't go very far.
Because that's basically against their traditions and their values as well.
So in other words, Putin has said, look, we want to keep our family values.
We don't discriminate against anyone.
But, you know, as far as making sort of a public...
A sort of spectacle of these people who want to will not be allowed or tolerated.
So I think that's fair, as long as force and violence is not used.
All right, let me get to this.
Maybe a little religious, I don't want to be controversial here, but people, and they bring this up to me all the time, they see Putin, Every so often taking pictures with the Hasids and standing there with the chief rabbi of Russia,
Beryl Lazar, and they say, hey, look how buddy-buddy Putin is with the Chabadniks, as they're known, and they must have tremendous influence over Vladimir Putin because he poses with them.
How do we respond to something like that?
Do the Hasids have this tremendous influence on Vladimir Putin?
No, I think that Putin has also mentioned a number of times and regularly the fact that, you know, Russia is a multicultural country comprised of, of course, predominantly Orthodox Christians, but also, you know, Muslims and Jews and pagans and other confessions of faith.
And, you know, that they can't discriminate against anyone.
And they also try to keep good relationships with these leaders of these respective religions.
As a matter of fact, When I was in Moscow, I think it was in 2019, and I was driving with someone through Moscow, and they showed me this new mosque that was built, I don't know, not too long ago, which I think now is the biggest, largest mosque in Europe.
It's just really enormous.
And that is, of course, for those who are adherents of the Muslim faith.
And, of course, there are synagogues as well.
And I think that Putin has, once again, With regards to diplomacy, he has to, you know, pick good relations with all of these religious leaders to show that no one is discriminated against.
But keeping in mind that first and foremost, a major religion in Russia, of course, is Russian Orthodoxy, because there are more of them than anybody else.
And so I think that's fair.
And I think, you know, this tolerance that is shown by Russia was something that was also shown during Tsarist times, you know.
It was a very tolerant country of different religions, of the Jews and Muslims, and some people made cues of Russia or Czarist Russia persecuting Jews.
Well, in actual fact, many Jews that were spoken to after that would always say, no, we had a great life in Russia during the Czarist times.
To say that they were persecuted was not really, you know, a reflection of the true situation.
But getting back to the question of, you know, the gay parades and so forth, of course, what has to be emphasized that the church is also against them because we cannot agree with that and we can't agree, of course, you know, just from a Christian standpoint with With the lifestyle, as they say, you know, love the sinner, hate the sin.
And it's something that the church does not condone, but certainly the church also does not condone any, you know, discrimination or violence against anyone, and including, of course, the gay community.
I want to get back to this BRICS thing and Russia's and Putin and Lavrov in particular their relationship with the Muslim country of Iran.
Now is Putin and Lavrov really in alliance and sees that the Iranians are in the right?
To retaliate against Israel's bombing of both their embassy, I think they killed the head of the embassy in Iraq, which is a sovereign country, and they're bombing Iran itself.
What is the relationship between Putin And the new president, I forget his name, Perishkin, something like that, or the Ayatollah, and Lavrov too would have to come into this scene as well.
Are they really working very strongly with Iran to hopefully even stop the horrible genocide that the Israelis are doing both in Gaza and Lebanon?
I think that obviously Russia is not happy with what's going on.
And not just Russia, I think.
Most of the world is not happy with what's going on in Gaza and the killing of, you know, tens of thousands of people, innocent civilians.
And so, obviously, it's a concern, I think, to Russia.
But also, I would like to think that, you know, the relationship that they have with Iran is also, you know, before all of this conflict started, was also, of course, based on economics, on their trade and the economy of both countries, and that they We're very friendly before that, before this conflict came to be, and I think that Putin would like to keep that good relationship with Iran and the other countries as well.
And of course, with Israel, you know, Russia has always had a good relationship, and they probably don't want to see that in any way be hindered.
But I think Russia is trying to be fair in this case, and that is the fact that they cannot agree with these mass killings and And like I said, innocent civilians, and they would like to perhaps, somehow, play a role in stopping them.
Well, why doesn't Russia, they have a port in Syria, why don't they just amass some troops and tell the Israelis, stop it, threaten them?
Why don't they do that?
I don't know, but I'm thinking that, you know, they have their hands full already with, you know, the conflict in Ukraine.
And also, perhaps they don't want to escalate, you know, the situation.
between, you know, Iran and Israel.
But let's not forget that Russia did a lot to protect Syria, the neighbor, and during those times when, you know, a number of countries wanted to see regime change in Syria as well, but Russia was able to stop that, protect the democratically elected president.
All right, I want to get to another subject here, which is very important, and that's Alexander Dugan.
And he really came into prominence to the Western world when Tucker Carlson interviewed him, I think two months ago.
And it seemed to me and to others that brought this out to me.
Not only in his interview with Tucker Carlson, but in some of his statements and other interviews, that Alexander Dugan, who's called the brain of Putin, seems to accept other faiths as legitimate faiths, which is really contrary to the Orthodox Church's position.
That there was only one true faith, but it appears that Alexander Dugan is some kind of universalist that salvation can be found in other faiths as well, so he wants to cooperate in this multi-polar type of scenario where he accepts all faiths as a means to salvation.
Now maybe I'm getting him wrong.
Maybe others are getting him wrong.
What is it, dear Archbishop?
I don't recall seeing that interview with him or him making those remarks, but I'm thinking once again he's saying this from that point of view of perhaps diplomacy, even though he's not a politician, he's a philosopher, but he's also a very pious Orthodox Christian.
And I think he would obviously, if he was asked, you know, do you believe that the Orthodoxy is, of course, the one true religion, he would say yes.
But keeping in mind that, of course, especially in Russia, which is multicultural, the number of faiths that are prevalent in Russia, and so he has to also be diplomatic when he addresses those faiths and those religions.
But I'm sure that, like I said, he is a very devout Christian and strongly believes in his faith.
Let's not forget how tragically his daughter was murdered last year, I think it was.
He sought faith.
I mean, he sought solace in the Orthodox faith, in his faith, and he's a very humble man.
But, you know, I'm glad that Tucker Carlson had the opportunity to speak to him.
Let's not forget, Tucker Olson came also to Russia to speak first and foremost with President Putin, and how he was demonized for that, how he was ostracized for speaking, to dare to speak to President Putin, and yet asked the question, why?
Why aren't other leaders making—and Tucker Carlson, of course, is not a leader, he's just a journalist— But why are others making that attempt?
And he should be praised.
He applauded the fact that he came and he spoke to Putin.
And if you remember that interview, Putin described in the beginning the history of the Russian and Ukrainian land.
And so, to emphasize that, yes, we come from the same roots.
You as a Russian, with your Russian ancestry, and your Russian forefathers, your grandparents, I see you, Archbishop Gabriel, as having one foot in Russia, historically, culturally, socially, religiously, but yet you're a bishop here.
You served in New York.
As the Bishop of Manhattan for many years, and this is really your turf, I see you straddling two realms, America, West, and Russia, which is emerging as a very strong leader.
In the world, not just culturally, socially, but economically, and as a spokesperson for a lot of people who are very frustrated.
So you being on both sides, straddling America, Russia, I'm going to pinpoint it.
Why is a man like Putin so demonized?
Why is he painted constantly as a demon?
I mean, I was on an airplane once, and I was brought up to first class because I travel a lot on United Airlines, and here's a guy in a suit and tie, very, looked terrific, looked very smart, intelligent.
He sits next to me.
He sees me in my, with Rosnick, and he said, uh, what church you with?
And I said, I'm with the Russian Orthodox Church.
He says, oh, Russia, do you know Putin is poisoning his own people?
I said, well, first of all, my Russian church really is not under Putin.
It's under the Patriarch of Russia, and we have our own bishops here.
But where did you see this, that Putin is poisoning his own people?
He said, I saw it on CNN. But let me get back to my question here.
Why is the West both politically The media, news, wherever you look, demonizing Vladimir Putin.
Why are they focusing on him as being some evil creature?
Well, I guess, you know, one of the answers could be is that he's not playing ball with them, as they say.
You know, he has his own agenda, and that is his agenda, of course, he's mentioned a number of times, is, you know, in the interests of Russia and the Russian people.
And so it doesn't perhaps always align with the interests of the West.
And, of course, I think, no doubt, his stand for family values.
And as a matter of fact, we see that as a result of that, what's going on in the West, people from Canada, from the U.S., from Germany, other countries, are moving to Russia.
Not knowing even the language, but they're moving because of that very exact point, because of family values, because they feel safe bringing up their children in a country that does stand for family values.
Perhaps that's something that the West can't stand, I don't know, it seems to me, because why would they be demonizing Putin so much?
And the other thing that should be noted is, why?
Shouldn't it be the opposite?
Shouldn't they be seeking some sort of communication With Putin and Russia to help strengthen ties between these countries.
They should be strong, these ties.
Unfortunately, the relations now between Russia and the US are the lowest they've ever been, but perhaps it has a lot to do with the demonizing of Putin, whereas You know, how about diplomacy?
How about conversation?
How about sitting down at a table?
How about working towards, you know, strengthening ties?
And that isn't happening.
And it's not Putin's fault, because he said, just a couple of days ago, he said, we are open to conversation, to dialogue.
But, you know, talk to us.
But they didn't want to talk.
And then, like I said, when Tucker Carlson came to talk with him, he was demonized for that.
To dare to go to Russia and speak with Putin.
They call him a Putin stooge.
That's the phrase.
Let's just put it this way.
By strengthening ties between the two countries, and just generally between the West and Russia, does that do more or less with regards to nearing a third world war and a nuclear war?
We would think so.
But nothing makes sense anymore with the way politics is run in the Western world.
Exactly.
You know, the worse the relations get, the closer we are to, you know, some sort of, God forbid, world war.
And as Putin has said also, mentioned a number of times, no one wins that war.
No one wins a nuclear war.
Barika, we have 10 minutes left, okay?
I want to get to the church.
I want to get to the Russian Orthodox Church and the Orthodox Church in general.
Now, I know that you're often asked to be the lead speaker at youth conferences.
The youth, I've seen it.
They love you.
They're drawn to you.
How does the Russian Church, how does the Orthodox Church, what do we need to do?
You, being very much involved in evangelism, speak at these youth conferences.
You go to the youth camps and you're the speaker.
They love you.
How do we reach the youth?
How do we reach the American youth who don't know much about Orthodoxy?
How do we reach them for the Church?
Well, you know, that's a good question, and I think a lot of work has to be done.
I mean, I think, you know, generally, America is a very spiritual country.
I mean, I think everyone believes in something.
Of course, we have, you know, those who profess to be atheists and whatever else, but on the most part, people are religious in America.
And I think it's important for the youth to know a bit of history of the church and to understand, you know, most people haven't even heard of Orthodoxy, let alone know anything about it.
And I think it's important to know that, for example, the first 10 centuries, you know, of Christianity, there was only one church.
There's only one church.
There weren't all of these Protestant denominations that we have today, which appeared when they started appearing in the 16th century.
And so there was one church, you know, the one Christian church, you know, founded by Christ.
And of course, as we know, through history, the Catholic Church represented by Rome, We've started to sort of stray from the principles of true orthodoxy through various heresies and which led to the split between the two churches east and the west.
But the orthodox church, the church that was founded by Christ himself, It remains in the form of the Orthodox Church.
And so I think it's important for the youth, if they're really interested in Christianity and spirituality, that they should first and foremost understand why The Orthodox Church can be considered the true church because it was indeed, or it still is, that church which is founded by Christ.
Christ said that the Pates of the 80s will never prevail over this church that he founded.
So, and then of course as we see, you know, with Martin Luther, when he turned to the West, And instead of turning to the East and decided that he was done with Catholicism and started his own religion.
And of course now we see thousands and thousands of these Protestant denominations.
You can drive down the street and you see something new every day.
Someone who professes to be a religion that brings some sort of truth.
But of course we know that The truth when we talk about Christianity was the truth that was, you know, in the church that was founded by Christ.
So I think for the youth, it's important to, I mean, there's so many sources now, especially, you know, everyone is computer savvy, knowing, you know, to be able to go online.
And to open up so many wonderful orthodox sites where you can learn about religion, you can learn about the saints, you can read the scriptures.
These are things that if the youth are serious about Christianity that they can be exposed to.
I saw an article when I, you know, first was coming out of Judaism, which church saves?
And that kind of really struck me.
Hmm, which church saves?
Now, in explaining to the youths who come out of either no religious background or some form of Protestantism, The Protestants seem to say, you ask Jesus into your heart.
You say this special prayer, the prayer of salvation, and you have salvation.
You're saved.
What is salvation in the Orthodox Church?
Is it just saying a prayer, Jesus, I ask you into my heart?
Tell us.
There's many youth who are watching this now and will be watching this once I permanentize it.
What is salvation?
In the Orthodox Church, how can a young person be saved or have salvation?
What is salvation?
Anyways.
Well, first and foremost, I have to say that as one prominent theologian, contemporary theologian, once said that and very well said very well that Jesus doesn't save without us.
In other words, without our participation.
So it's false to say Jesus saves in the regards that we don't have to do anything.
Just believe in Jesus and you're saved.
Well, that's unfortunate.
That's the Protestant.
But of course the Orthodox belief is and understanding is that of course we can't, Jesus cannot save us without our participation, our wanting to be saved, our participation in a spiritual life which leads to salvation.
And that I think is the difference and that is what Orthodoxy is all about.
Understanding that, as it says in the Gospel, that the Kingdom of Heaven is achieved by our struggles.
By struggles here on earth, struggles as Orthodox Christians, as Christians, following Christ, taking up our cross.
And this is what it's all about.
And it's not just, oh, you can believe and you're saved.
You don't have to do anything else.
You're automatically guaranteed to be saved.
No.
To be saved means to struggle.
Struggle throughout our whole lives.
In trying to, you know, become better Christians and trying to be better in regards to our sins and confessing our sins and cleansing ourselves of these sins and trying to lead a better life.
That is the struggle.
That is Orthodox Christianity.
Let's say a young person comes to you, or the priests that are part of your bishopric, and say, hey, I like this church, and I ask Jesus into my heart, why can't I just go up and take Holy Communion?
What is the response to a young man like that?
Well, firstly, you have to be part of the Church, you have to be baptized, you have to be a believer, and also understanding that in Orthodox Church, before one could approach Holy Communion, one is supposed to cleanse himself of the sins, which, of course, a person emits not on a daily basis, on an hourly basis, and every minute.
You might say.
And so it's important for a person to approach the holy chalice, that is the body and blood of Christ, which we believe, as cleansed as much as we can of the sins that we have committed.
And so it's important to understand that, and one has to prepare for Holy Communion.
It's not just a drive-thru, you know, as I like to say.
It's not a drive-thru, it's not McDonald's.
You know, this is Holy Communion, and we have to prepare for it, and prepare for it in a proper and spiritual way.
Alright, it seems to me what you're saying is that there's an inner life.
That the Orthodox Church wants to focus on our inner life, an inner transformation.
Whereas the Protestants, it's all outward.
Oh, I said this prayer.
I'm in.
And that's all I needed to do.
I said the Jesus prayer.
Jesus took the punishment, and I'm I'm free!
I'm free as a bird, and I'm in.
But it seems orthodoxy wants to emphasize the inner life.
Am I right here?
Absolutely.
The spiritual life, and of course, like once again, as I said, the spiritual struggle, we all understand that we're all subjected to, you know, at one point in our life, no matter how hard we try to escape, you know, hardships, illnesses, problems, you know, other things that can set us on a path of whatever, despair, depression and so forth.
We understand that sometimes these things are sent to us, of course, to test us, and to help us also.
Of course, we understand that through struggles, we attain this cleansing of our souls, and it helps us to attain the next life, because I think it's important to understand that this life is tempered.
What does it say in the Psalms?
A man lived 70 years, and if he'd be of good health, he'd live 80 years.
These were Psalms that were written thousands of years ago, right?
And yet they're still true to this day.
What's the average lifespan of a man and a woman?
Somewhere in mid to upper 70s.
So, in other words, we have to understand that, indeed, our life on earth is just temporary, but eternity is eternity.
It's forever.
And the kingdom of God.
And that's what, of course, we should be striving towards, you know, through leading, trying to lead a spiritual life.
All right, this last question, then we have to wrap it up.
I'm going to ask my staff here, is there any questions that anybody want to ask Archbishop Gabriel?
And he'll let me know in a minute here if there are.
But if there aren't, then that's fine.
We've learned a lot.
I've learned a lot.
I want to ask you this last question.
You mentioned that I asked you, a young man comes in to the Orthodox Church and says, hey, I said the prayer of salvation.
Let me come up for Holy Communion.
And you said, no, they have to become a member of the church.
They have to be baptized.
Why?
Why is this so important that somebody enters into the Orthodox Church through this baptism ritual?
Well, because that's why we become Christians, to baptize and immerse in water three times in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
But you're saying that's not enough to just say, Jesus, come into my heart.
That doesn't make that person a Christian.
A person becomes a member of the Church through baptism.
Is that what you're saying?
Well, firstly, we understand that before we're baptized, we're catechized.
We learn about the faith.
We learn about the Orthodox Church and its history and just generally, you know, the traditions.
This is, you know, catechism, which is really important before one is baptized.
So we understand, you know, that he is freely entering into a life of Christ and being with Christ and that he can worthily, you know, try at least to be worthily A member of the church and knowing, you know, what is expected.
And so then, of course, when he's ready, that person is ready for baptism.
The rite of baptism is performed.
He is immersed in water and he comes out, you know, completely, as I say, a person with a clean slate, you know, someone who starts anew.
And so for this reason, that makes it possible for him to be a member of the church, a Christ church.
And to try to live that life of a spiritual life of Orthodox Orthodox Christian.
What actually happens to a young man when he is immersed in the baptismal waters?
What happens to him, both exteriorly and internally?
Well, of course, we believe that the grace of the Holy Spirit comes down upon that person which is being baptized, you know, the grace of the Holy Spirit.
And that through that immersion, through that baptism, that his sins are wiped clean, washed away, and that he begins a new life, a new life in Christ.
And so, really, it's about the grace of the Holy Spirit, without a doubt.
And in all of the sacraments that are performed in the Church, we talk about the Holy Spirit.
Does a person actually become a new creation by holy baptism?
How does he become a new creation?
What exactly happens that all of a sudden he's a new creation?
Can you elaborate on that a bit?
Then we have one question for you and then we'll close it up.
Well, yes, I think a person is renewed through baptism.
Whether he be an adult who becomes a Christian or baptized in the Orthodox faith as someone already as an adult, or even in his infant years.
Some people say, well, how is it that an infant is cleansed of his sins or her sins?
When they don't have any, they're still, you know, babies.
And we say, well, because the sins of the parents, which they're born into, also upon them, and through baptism, these sins are washed away, and they become Orthodox Christians and can begin to lead that Orthodox lives, just as it is in people who are adults, when they are baptized, you know, whatever they have.
The sins that I have committed before are washed clean, and you start a new life.
That's very interesting, because my experience when I was baptized in the Russian Orthodox Church, I was given a statement, they said, that goes back centuries, renouncing the sins of my forefathers, Judaism.
who participated and who were members of the synagogue.
I had to say, I had to renounce it formally before the priest would put me in the water.
So that segues, or that's right in sync with what you're saying about the infant who's baptized.
He is washed away from the sins of his own parents.
Which is a very profound concept.
But we'll talk about that more next time.
We have one question for you.
My staff is going to bring this up.
Does Archbishop Gabriel have a Twitter account?
No, would you believe it?
I don't.
I'm on Facebook.
I don't know.
Of course, that's pretty much it.
I think just Facebook.
I don't have a Twitter account.
Would you consider having one?
I can help you with it.
Your voice is very important.
I think you have the best voice of all that are speaking today.
I'm not going to mention any names, but I think it's very balanced, it's very pious, and it's very authoritative, and you know your history, and we know that Russia itself is emerging as a world leader.
I mean, look at all these world leaders that came.
The Secretary of the UN came, and I think he hugged Putin.
Everyone's hugging, you know, the leader of this BRICS, Vladimir Putin, even though the West demonizes him.
Everyone else is hugging him and kissing him, making toast with him.
So I think let's talk about getting you on X, Twitter, and you'll have a huge following because you've got something to say.
I almost feel like I'm going to close it with one last question, okay?
St.
Paul says in Ephesians, there is one body, one faith, one baptism.
Can you explain this very quickly?
What is the body?
What is the faith?
What is the baptism?
That St.
Paul said there's one.
Not many.
Huh?
I think we can unite all those three things in one word.
Christ.
We are one body in Christ.
We are one faith in Christ.
And what was the third thing you mentioned?
One baptism.
Baptism, of course, in Christ.
Absolutely.
And the Christ that founded the church, the church that we represent, He founded the Orthodox Church.
Of course, there was only one church.
And I am very honored and privileged to be a member in good standing with the Russian Orthodox Church.
And recently I was at a liturgy where Archbishop Gabriel was a celebrant and I partook of Holy Communion from the chief celebrant.
Who is really Jesus Christ, but through his office, who stands in deep place.
One point I wanted to make about the Russian Church and us, and when we came together in 2007, and Churches United, and of course, You mean united with the Patriarch of Russia?
That's right, but it must be noted that we are an autonomous church, so it's not as if we have to take all of the orders and whatever commands from the Patriarch.
We are autonomous and we are self-ruling, but we do have certain things that we have to, of course, abide by and get the blessing of the Patriarch, but of course we are an autonomous church outside of Russia.
But we do consider, of course, the Patriarch to be the head of the church.
I'm very pleased to be a member of the Russian Orthodox Church.
I'm humbled by it.
And we appreciate you, Archbishop Gabriel, very much.
Thank you for being on.
We'll do more.
God bless.
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