How to Beat the Financial Slavery system with Joey Kimbro (Blood Money Episode 320)
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All right, guys, welcome to the latest episode of Blood Money.
Today we have a very special guest, Mr. Joey Kimbrough.
How are you doing, sir?
I'm doing well, Vim.
Thanks for having me on, man.
You know, the reason why I wanted you to come on the show is I've done a bunch of episodes with your friend Brandon Joe Williams, and he speaks about you so highly.
He almost looks at you as a mentor in certain categories and fields.
But, you know, before we dive into that part, tell us, you know, how do you describe yourself, what you do, your expertise?
You know, give us a little introduction of who you are.
Okay, yeah, sounds good.
I'm, I would call myself a credit expert, and I don't use that term lightly.
I litigated here a while back through a necessity, I think more than anything, a 15 USC 1681 claim as it relates to the Fair Credit Reporting Act.
And I was successful there.
It was kind of my first go-around.
I say by necessity because one of our friends, American Express, that we all know and love so well, had sued me in Indiana state court, which is where I'm at.
And then I turned that around and said, oh, fuck, I got to learn this or else.
And then I turned around.
I had six accounts with them once upon a time, six business accounts.
So I turned around.
They sued me for one in state court, which is still ironically going on four years later.
And I ended up doing the other five accounts in federal court here in Indiana in the southern district of Indiana.
So I've kind of cut my teeth on that space and I stay in that lane.
Now, I branch off with Brandon in some other areas, some of his spaces, I'm sure we'll talk about negotiable instruments and so forth.
But as far as the 15 USC 1681 claims, that's where I would say I would lay my claim to fame.
I was very successful.
If anybody has PACER, I would recommend that you get on the Southern District of Indiana, look up Kimbrough v. Snap-on.
And you'll see that case where I successfully litigated against Snap-on, Equifax, and Experian.
And to this day, my credit score now has, I'm happy to say, about a month and a half ago, it's the perfect 850, which I'd never seen until that happened.
And seeing several thousand credit profiles over my automotive dealership days when I owned four auto dealerships, I'd never seen it.
I'd seen close to that, but that told me that I'm kind of on to something.
So I did a lot of client work in this space as well.
And then now I branched off and I'm teaching others through a credit cohort where I teach the systems and processes that I use.
All right.
I got to ask.
So like now you're telling me that through lawsuits or through legal processes, you could basically attain a perfect credit.
That applies to anybody, even though, you know, somebody that's really screwed up on their credit.
I mean, how does that work?
Yeah, there's a process that I use, Femme, and that's kind of what I so first and foremost, I'll back up and say what I would recommend anybody do if they're if they're interested in going down this path, get a PACER account, get into your district court wherever you're at.
Look at 480 is the code on Fair Credit Reporting Act cases.
So do a research in your district on 480 and you'll see that that's what I did.
I went in and I looked for people at Barcard specifically that were suing for 15 USC 1681 claims.
I took those cases and I studied those and then ultimately modeled it to my complaint, built a complaint based off of my needs.
So that's that's kind of how I do it.
There's a proper way to do the disputing.
Do identity IQ, and I we can kind of go through the overall process at more length, but I order an identity IQ three bureau report and I'll look at each of the accounts that are on there.
I'll highlight what is different.
And if anybody does any research on 15 USC 1681, you'll clearly see the Congress has put that act in place to ensure maximum accuracy.
And those are your grounds right there.
So anything you find that's reporting out differently across the three credit reporting agency, that's how I dispute it.
So I'll send a letter to each of the credit Equifax Experience TransUnion and I'll say, hey, pursuant to 15 USC 1681 I, here are the discrepancies that I have on my credit profile.
And then with the individual furnishers, I'll send out a letter to each one of them and say, hey, pursue it to 15 USC 1681 S2A.
Here are your responsibilities for these inaccuracies.
So I'll do that.
The law gives you 30 days to answer, gives them 30 days to answer and respond.
You're going to get them one of two things.
Either one, we've verified we're reporting it out accurately, which I love, or they'll just completely ignore you, which happens quite often as well.
So then I'll create a second letter based off of that, and I'll send that as well.
And then just following the process right there at that second letter is where I establish damages.
And I found this out kind of the hard way: if you're going into federal court and you haven't been damaged in some way, why in the hell you're even there?
So, you know, they'll call it concrete damages from a legal lease term.
So you have to establish concrete damages.
For me, it was a sizable loan that my lifestyle would take care of.
Now, anybody I consult with, I'll tell them, go apply for a car note, go apply for a home loan, whatever it is, get denied.
Now you have the grounds.
So I'll file the second letter, I'll establish damages.
Could I ask a question real quick?
What do you say?
So, so you're saying that no loans are supposed to be denied?
I'm not saying no loans are supposed to be denied.
I'm saying if you're a 660 or below, you're a subprime candidate.
So you're going to be paying an assload of interest, which in Indiana app is 25% if you're 660 and below and you're a subprime.
That's horrible, man.
I mean, I used to do that.
I had to buy here, pay here a lot.
But no, I'm not saying that you can't be denied.
I'm saying that you shouldn't be paying those fees if, in fact, they're breaking the law.
So it's one of those things where I talk to my wife at the onset.
You know, we've in our 50s.
So we've been raised with, hey, if you get a loan, you pay your bills.
So we had to really set down when I had $154,000 worth of Amex debt that we're talking about and really filter that through.
Well, hey, hey, honey, I mean, are you, you know, doing everything right?
Well, the way I explain it is Joey's not breaking the law if he's not paying that bill if something in life happens versus Amex reporting out across three different bureaus three different amounts is Actually, breaking the law, and I can cite that in 15 USC 1681 clearly.
So, who's at fault?
Is it for is it me for not paying my bills or is it them for openly breaking the law after I notify them?
So, that's kind of how I look at it, and that's how I teach it.
Now, you got to be careful because there are those folks that'll grab onto this.
And then, you know, there are folks out there saying I've found infinite money and stuff now, too.
So, somewhat agree with that.
But at the same time, you got to be very careful with that thought process.
I'm one of those that says if you have anything on your credit profile that you don't want there, it can be removed.
And I say that with confidence.
Sorry about that, getting used to the buttons here.
So, okay, that's really interesting to me.
What I'm hearing is that let's say you've been out there, you've really screwed up, you got a 500 credit, you got like 20 derogatories.
You're telling me that you could remove every single one of those and restore somebody's credit to 850.
Yeah, I'm not saying 850 specifically.
It took me about two and a half years to get to 850, but overnight when I settled with Equifax, I went to 818 with them as part of the settlement, and I went to 839 with Experian as part of that.
Now, the other makeup, let's call it, to get to 850, it took a little while longer for the, let's call it the algorithm to catch up.
So, yes, if you have anything that is derogatory on your credit profile, and I'm very cautious about using that term derogatory, because when you get in the courts, the attorneys are going to say things like derogatory and negative, and it doesn't matter, it's inaccurate.
Inaccurate is the key word there.
They're going to try to throw you off.
I see this all the time with my cohort members, but yeah, if there is anything on your profile that should not be there, you have a private right to privacy and you also have a federal right to ensure that it's accurate.
And I can promise you that if I look at your profile, I'm going to find things whether it's date opened, which is a big one.
Amex may have April 1st with Experian, they'll have April 5th with Equifax, and April 1st again with TransUnion.
That right there, if they don't change it, is not maximum accuracy as the law reads.
And you have now a justiciable controversy, and they don't think you know that.
And quite honestly, the attorneys, I used to run leads in this space for a while too.
And the attorneys will tell you that they get a million and a half, they being Equifax, Experian, and TransUnion of these disputes on a weekly basis.
They have an automated system in place.
I call it AI before AI was AI.
It's called e-Oscar.
So, when you send these disputes in, it'll automatically kick out a response based off of a code on what you're disputing.
So, being in the credit repair space a long time ago, once upon a time, we would try everything.
We would handwrite stuff and everything else to try to trip up e-Oscar when it's really not needed.
The letters for me are just building evidence and evidence.
All right.
So, you're talking about these things that you find on the credit reports that show discrepancies that then are arguable.
Could you give us like some more examples of what sort of thing an inexperienced person would want to look out for in order to get the stuff removed?
I mean, I can show you an example if you want to, you want me to share the screen and yeah, yeah, totally.
I mean, I know we're using some new software here, but it looks like there's a share button here.
I don't know if I got to press it or you got to press it.
Let me hit it and see if it asked you.
There you go.
It's asking for the screen.
By the way, for the viewers out there, there's a software called Riverside.
Brandon Joe Williams is a big fan.
The first time I'm using it today, so it's a little bumpy, but already the picture quality is so much better.
4K, it's awesome.
Yeah, it looks good, man.
So, let's see.
Are you seeing my I'm seeing?
Hang on.
There we go.
Is that there?
We go.
Can you see it now?
Yeah, I could see your desktop.
I see your whole desktop there.
Okay.
I'm going to get past this part of it.
This is what an identity IQ report.
Yeah, I don't want to give out anybody's.
And I actually just did a consult for this young lady today.
So here's what you would see, identity IQ.
It's showing what her score is.
And then now you're getting into the meat and potatoes.
So I created this for her.
Red's bad.
And then here's the discrepancies I would look for.
So just like I told you earlier, Vim, date opened is a big one.
So this Amex account right here is saying it was opened on December 31st.
It's saying Experion saying December 1st.
So which fucking is it?
Is it December 31st or December 1st?
So that's how I dispute these things.
So question, question.
Let me pause you right there because I see what you're doing.
You're trying to find mistakes in there where the dates are off.
So now let's use this date open example, right?
So you're telling me that because it's different dates, you write to each one of these guys going, look, you guys got all the dates wrong.
This is obviously inaccurate.
Please remove the entire thing or how does that progress?
That's the pursuant to the law, they only have two options.
They either fix it or they delete it.
That's the only two options they have.
Now, they don't want to do that.
I'm telling you right now, TransUnion, Experian, and Equifax, their revenue model is set up on Amex reporting out and they're paying them for it.
So when you go to negotiate removing these accounts off of here, the first thing you're going to hear from typically, what I hear is, well, there are 11 accounts, Joey, that you're disputing with us.
We can remove four of those for you.
No, you're removing all fucking 11, you know, because we played the game.
I gave you a notice of intent to sue.
I gave you every opportunity now.
And the reason why they're doing that, Vim, is because those other seven of the 11 accounts, they're getting revenue off of on a monthly basis.
And I'm one that used to report out to Experian in particularly through Metro 2.
So it's a revenue game for these guys.
So they are very hesitant to remove these accounts.
And is it, let me ask you, is it a fraudulent revenue gain?
It sounds like if they have seven accounts running on you, I mean, are they doing anything shady?
And therefore, that's the reason why they want all the stuff to go away?
No, I think that it's a way to keep their thumb on you and keep you in check.
I mean, there is a huge industry out there, the subprime one I was talking about.
And when I was an auto dealer, I had a lot of lenders, United Auto Credit, Credit Acceptance Corporation, a lot of those big gorillas.
And some are owned by some of the, you know, the bigger regional banks anyway.
So if Vim comes in and he's an 800 plus, he's a prime candidate.
He's going to get the auto loan for 5% or whatever that may be.
Whereas if he's a 660 or below, this is just my theory.
Then now I can charge him for the same damn car instead of 5%.
I can charge him up to state max in Indiana 25%.
So that's my theory on why they want to drive you to 660 or lower.
So you saw this one, this particular young lady here, not a ton of unfavorable stuff.
She's 561.
So I think that's one of the things that I see.
I can bring up another example here.
This is in my credit cohorts that I build, I built it out for a fictitious avatar here named Reyna Caldwell.
I just came up with this and it's how I start our stuff.
But I created letters and I can kind of show you, just walk you through one of the letters that I created for her to for my cohort to see how I build these things out.
And I use LetterStream as the mailing platform for this.
This was a letter that I created for that fictitious avatar, Reyna Caldwell, in my cohorts.
So I just cap one.
Here's what's going on.
This is notice the principal's notice to agent.
You see that on a lot of legal docs.
I'm just letting you know whoever in the fuck opens this letter up, you have the responsibility to get it to the proper person's account number ending in 32, pursuant to 15 USC 1681 S2B.
You know, I'm outlining what's going on.
I'm telling them exactly what's wrong with it.
And then I typically will give a government-issued ID, proof of address through a utility bill.
Letter Delivery Duties00:15:00
And then I'll also send a copy of the credit report.
And again, this is fictitious.
I made this up for a lady named Raina Caldwell, but I send this along with it with the shit that's highlighted to them as far as discrepancies go.
So they can't weasel out and say, you know, they didn't receive something.
So I'll send this, this entire packet, and then I'll get some type of a response back from them that says, you know, pound sand, we've checked our files, everything's right, and so forth.
So that's kind of just a very high level of what I do.
But I don't know.
Do you want to like take a look at my credit cohort and kind of how I do that stuff, Mem?
Yeah, totally.
A quick question, though.
So you send the first letter.
It sounds like the first letter you send, they're always going to tell you to pound sand.
And then you send the second letter, I'm imagining.
I send a second letter after I get their response or after the time of 30 days tolls, which, you know, is the legal requirement for them to respond.
So one of two things I'm either doing, I'm saying, hey, you had the opportunity to respond.
You didn't.
So therefore, now you're in violation of 1681.
Or you responded.
And that's great, but that's horseshit because here's the reality of exactly what I showed you earlier.
That's how I do it in the second letter that I send.
Interesting, interesting.
So if you want to show me what you're just talking about.
Yeah, sure, man.
Heck yeah.
So this is like I'll use Loom as the recording software for our credit cohort as we build it.
Who the fuck is Reyna Caldwell?
That's just the kickoff video that I put together just explaining, hey, it's a fictitious avatar.
She's a mother in Indianapolis, a nurse, got two kids, blah, blah, blah.
I just, I made up this persona for her.
And I wanted to do that when I was teaching this process because I thought, you know, in the first cohort, if I take one of my cohort members and I build out for them, then I'm going to hear the other eight people bitching and bellyache.
And so I thought, you know what?
I'm going to build this out for Reyna.
And you guys can watch me build out the specific disputes and everything.
So everything's color coded here for a reason.
Like the brown stuff is just general overview of kind of what my thoughts are, what some of the rules of the court are and so forth.
But if it's red in nature, that's a module and there's a call to action there.
So that's a big ticket item where you're actually going to have something to do there.
So in the first one, you can see we go through identity overcue, identity IQ overview.
We do the dispute letter creation.
They watch me create those letters for Reyna so that they can walk side by side with me.
And then we give an overview of letter stream and so forth.
And as part of that, so I'll send those out on a Monday.
And then the following Wednesday, nine days later, we'll have a Zoom call where we all come together.
And then I record those as well.
So the pink things are the Zoom recorded sessions.
You can see three hours and 28 minutes.
On there for quite some time where we're going through everything and watching the build and so forth.
The green stuff is just me, my thoughts that kind of get outside of the cohort that says, Hey, I'm an 800 score.
Here's kind of the crazy stuff that I think about, you know, legacy matters and trusts and all that other good stuff.
So, this is this is this is people that take your uh modules, your classes, where you're kind of like it seems like as a group, you're helping them uh getting together as a group and then individually giving guidance in order for people to be able to walk through the process of cleaning up their credit.
Yeah, not only cleaning up credit, but as you'll find along the way, Vim, that you know, there's a lot of litigation here that because we're building everything for litigation, which ultimately they'll build out right here their proposed summon civil cover sheet and the actual complaint and stuff.
So, I stay with them through that process and hold their hand all the way through litigating these matters in federal court.
So, we'll do it through a private Facebook group here, too.
So, I have two of them.
I got uh, this is the Austin cohort from when I went out and spoke for Brandon out in Austin.
I have nine members of that cohort right now, but and it's private.
Nobody's in this group but me and the cohort.
So, I'll upload files.
This is where we'll actually uh share stuff.
Sonny's actually a good buddy too.
He's he's a retired police officer who's going through it, and he's already settled out five of his nine defendants in his too.
So, Matt's a doctor in Texas and so forth.
So, yeah, I have two cohorts going right now.
Um, one's about done, and then here's the second one now.
I've got 12 members in it.
So, yeah, we'll just share everything via the private Facebook groups.
I'll do the loom uploads there.
I'll do the Zoom call uploads and stuff like that.
So, it's kind of our place that we get together and talk.
Now, before we do that, I actually build out an AI agent for these guys.
So, this is one of the guys in the second cohort.
I'll build an AI agent, and I forget to tell this a lot of times, but this is probably one of the most important things that I come in and I give the AI agent instructions here, and then I build out a knowledge base with the federal rules, evidence, the civil procedures, busy manuals, all the local rules, Supreme Court decisions, case law, all of that.
So, your AI agent's like the smartest fucking attorney on the face of the earth is how you could look at it.
So, when you go interacting with it, it'll actually become smarter as we go through this cohort, and it makes it so easy.
I actually have one lady in the first cohort who's a Japanese American.
She's only been here 11 years, and she said, You know, without that, I wouldn't have been able to, you know, English is her second language.
So, she's doing very well having this.
And this is something I did not have.
And now, everybody that's in it's like, oh my God, I'm so in love with this.
It's a great concept kind of thing.
So, that's that's just like a 30,000-foot view of kind of what we do in the cohort.
Okay, so for people that I have a general idea of what you're doing, probably more than a general idea because I've hung out with you know Brandon for years and other individuals that understand this space.
I mean, a lot of people are going to be looking at this going, like, all right, like, how is this even possible?
How could I go out there and do whatever I want, screw up my credit, come back, do these steps, and then get perfect credit or close to perfect credit?
Could you explain how this is even possible to the total layman out there?
Yeah, it definitely takes some.
Uh, I would not recommend this for everybody.
Anybody that's got any aversions to talking to attorneys, talking to judges, or getting in court in general, this is not for you.
My wife is one of those, by the way.
Knuckleheads like me, Brandon, and that mindset, so forth, that really don't mind it.
It's tough to, I talk more people out of being my cohorts than actually being in it.
Crazy enough as that might sound.
It's not, I'm not a hard sell.
I don't want your money if you're going to go in there and flop.
I've got a record myself that's impeccable.
I've not lost one, knock on wood.
So I don't want to get some knucklehead in there that's going to fuck that up.
When I got Sonny in there, I was blessed, Vim, because here's a guy that's 46 years old, retired from Tampa PD just this summer.
And if anybody's going to sniff test me, it's going to be somebody like that.
Getting him in and getting him being the first person that's being successful naturally led to he and I having a lot of conversations, which is how is Joey successful?
And now how has Joey been successful for his clients building?
And then now I'm successfully teaching you, Sonny, what is it that we have that we're doing different maybe?
And the first thing that we came up to was that we know how to talk to people, right?
So he in law enforcement had a history of being able to talk to people.
I'm not put off by attorneys.
One of my favorite sayings is, you know, counsel, we're going to have to agree to disagree on this.
You're always going to hear this is frivolous.
It's meritless and you're an asshole, essentially.
And when you get past that, you chuckle and give them the whole, you know, we're just going to have to agree to disagree.
So anyway, that's a long-winded way of me saying this isn't for everybody.
I mean, if you don't have a willingness to want to get in and learn the procedural components, Brandon will be the first one to tell you that when he talks about Uncle Joey is, I thought the guy was fucking crazy.
I just wanted to build the best, you know, Noah's Ark, I.E. complaint, fire that into the court and see what happens.
And that's horseshit.
It'll get shot down every time.
If you don't know the procedural components and know federal rule of evidence 301, which tells you, and I'm not pissed at them, by the way, now that I know it, which that's the presumptive argument.
If I say, Vim, you're a fucking big ass purple monkey.
If you don't come back with and rebut that you're a purple monkey, guess what you become?
No, I'm a pink elephant, Joey.
What the hell are you even talking about?
And I'm using that as such a goofy example, but that's what the courts are set up on is the presumptive argument.
When the attorney says something, people get emotionally charged and they don't say anything or they'll come back with some kind of a, you know, a presumptive counter instead of facts and it stands.
You know, if you read that rule, it'll clearly tell you what they're doing.
It's the burden of proof is now on you because I opened up my pie hole and said something about you that you have to rebut that or it'll stand as fact.
And that's how people get beat every day.
And then they start with that horseshit of the courts are a scam.
It's ran by Masonic fuckers, which I am a 32nd degree Mason too.
I'll full discussion.
Maybe that's a reason why I win.
That's what Brandon gives me shit about.
You're a fucking Masonic guy, man.
That's why you win, you know, and that's the farthest thing from the truth.
I shouldn't even have to get in there and scrap it up.
But yeah, it's, it's, it's, I love litigation.
I may be just two degrees off and not, you know, a little bit touched in the head because I truly love it.
I truly believe in what it is.
But I'll tell you, nine out of nine times, the judiciary is stacked against you.
The bar cards are going to say whatever the fuck they want.
And that little dude over there in the black dress is definitely going to be on their side.
I don't want to get all conspiratorial here, but it's true.
We all know that.
So let's move from that.
Find out procedurally what they're doing.
They're not used to dealing with you or I, somebody that may know the procedural components that could shoot a missile right up their ass.
So, I mean, that's, that's what I've looked at.
And I say this jokingly, I said this in Austin and it was directed at Brandon.
I say this in jest, but it's true.
I had a record of 45 wins and then I met Brandon and I started losing.
You know, I didn't know how to fucking lose until I met Brandon.
And, you know, I say that and he'll laugh and I'll laugh, but there's truth in that.
I mean, I'm not throwing turds over there.
It's like, had I not taken his complaint and got a loss, then I never really would have dove into this procedural component, which has made me like a version 2.0 now.
Wow.
Which I love because.
Now I've had to dig into the procedural to say, all right, what is it from this standpoint and Brandon's argument that we can really start getting some traction?
And there's no case law.
There's none of that stuff that you have in the 1681 cases, but there will be, I believe.
I mean, we have some clients that we're sharing right now that we're working through that stuff, but it's going to take some time.
It's going to take some appellate review.
It's going to take, you know, a lot of time, you know, to get there with some of Brandon's arguments.
But yeah, it's litigation is something that I think most people, Vim, that I run across go into it naive, just as I did.
And, you know, I look back now and I laugh when I first started filing stuff.
You know, I'd be sitting there and I'd be like, yeah, that fucking judge is going to get him now.
Boy, look at this motion I just filed in there, all arrogant.
And they don't give a shit.
Quite honestly, they don't read anything that you write.
I promise you that.
They have 600 active cases every federal judge does.
So they're not reading your 30-page fucking manifesto of craziness that most of us file in there.
You know, it's like, if you don't know the procedural components, and here's the key into winning, especially the 1681 stuff, as soon as you get it filed, it's time for a telephone call.
Hey, man, I want to find an amicable resolution for your client and myself.
Let's talk.
Can I send you a Rule 408 settlement demand?
And they're like, God, this guy's talking in my language now.
Does he even know what a Rule 408 settlement?
When you start talking like you have some sense instead of what you and I have heard a million times, Vim, and most people, and they're going to get a chuckle out of this, I'm a free man with blood flowing through my veins.
Fuck you and your sovereign stupidity.
I mean, it's like, I just, all of these people make me cringe when I see that stupid shit.
They know who you are.
They know why you're, or I'm not a U.S.
Yeah, you are.
You're a fucking U.S. citizen.
These courts are built for U.S. citizens.
So fucking be one.
Get in there and win.
That's as easy as that.
Now, there's where Brandon and I start parting ways a little bit, but it's the courts were built for you and I.
I hate hearing people say the Article III courts, they are Article III courts.
They were built by you.
They were enacted by Congress.
I mean, people get so caught up in that instead of going in there, finding out the procedural components and winning like I do.
Simple.
What are the tips you could give to people that are a little bit green on this in terms of how they could set a winning precedent?
That's, dude, that's a great question, bro.
The thing that I come out of the box with in telling people, if you're not willing to do these four things, don't do it.
Get yourself up to speed on the federal, if you're in federal court, if you're in state court, it's going to look the same, but just change the fucking keyword that I'm using here.
Federal rules of civil procedure.
Read those and know those.
Know your timing.
Know exactly how to serve process.
Know how many days they have to respond to your motion.
Know that you have a reply as a right to their response.
Know all of those intricacies.
That's a procedural component.
The one that's overlooked more than anything, the second one is the federal rules of evidence.
That's where the gold's at.
That's where that presumptive 301 I was telling you about.
That's where 408, the settlement letter's at.
That's where 02, which tells you about the best evidence.
You know, if somebody's putting a contract in there, it has to be the original.
Know Your Procedural Rules00:06:21
You know, people don't know these things.
The judiciary canons, that is huge.
That tells you exactly how the judges are supposed to operate.
You know, they can't show impartiality, impropriety, all of these.
And it's funny, if you read the canons, you'll see that they have a fucking theater going on in there.
And you can actually, I didn't know what law was defined until I got into the canons.
And law is very clearly defined as includes the rules of the court.
Well, they violate the rules all the time.
So that's the third one, the judicial canons.
And the fourth one is the professional standards of conduct.
That tells you how the attorneys are supposed to operate.
So if you had those four things, federal rules of civil procedure, federal rules of evidence, judiciary canons, and professional standards of conduct, if you had those four that you had actually studied and you knew what they said, you can't be beat.
And I'm saying that, and I'm hoping people are taking notice and saying, wait a minute, is that all it?
I promise you, if you know those four buckets, you'll never be beat.
Your complaint means shit, but that's where so many people get caught up in.
And then procedurally, they get dismissed and they're fired up and it's all Masonic and all this other stupid shit.
So if I were giving anybody any advice, I would go, if you're thinking 1681 and you're wanting to get your credit profile, go study PACER in your district.
Find like I did five cases, build them out with your stuff, you know, that we talk through identity IQ.
Know those four buckets right there, file it in and get your head beat off the ground a little bit, but you're going to win eventually.
I can't state that enough.
And then start taking your 1681 stuff and kind of branching out a little bit further.
1992 is a very close relative.
That's the fair, the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, FDCPA.
So it's with all these debt collectors, the Midlands and all of those guys that are clowns.
It tells you, just like the FCRA does, it tells you how they're supposed to operate.
They fuck that up all the time.
I promise you that.
They're not supposed to call you during certain times.
They always do.
They're not supposed to curse at you.
They always do.
They're not supposed to talk to your family members or somebody at your workplace.
They always do.
You know, so there's some when you tell them you want debt validation, they never do.
In Indiana, at least, and I think most states are the same way.
The first thing I do, if somebody tells me something about a debt collector coming after them, is I go onto our state secretary of state site.
I look at business search.
I look at that company, Acme Collections, let's call it.
And they either have to be licensed in the state or have a certificate authority.
Guess what?
None of them ever have.
So the first thing I send them across a letter and say, hey, man, can you send me your, first off, let's validate the debt.
Tell me where in the fuck you got this from and how in the hell you even know my name.
You know, and so many people make mistakes there.
They'll talk to people on the phone.
Don't ever do that.
Have them send it to you in writing.
Go search like I just told you.
Fire them off a letter.
Ask them to validate and then say, Hey, man, are you licensed in the state of Indiana?
I'm not seeing you here on the Secretary of State.
You'll never hear from them again.
They're gone, you know, because they know what the ramifications are.
At least in Indiana, it's $10,000 if I turn that into the Attorney General.
So they go away.
And most people don't know this.
I mean, there's just so many nuggets that I can share on how to just get them to leave you alone.
And I think you probably have heard from Brandon a million times about the contracting.
All that is is people trying to contract with you all day long.
You know, some of it may be granted, rightfully so, but let's play by the rules.
Let's use the law to our advantage.
I'm not saying go out and not pay your bills.
You'll never hear me say that, but we're going to do it pursuant to the law.
And I guarantee you, I'm going to be okay at the end of it.
Wow.
Wow.
So, okay, you're saying how you and Brandon diverge on some things.
It sounds like one of the things you diverge on is this idea of what a U.S. citizen is or what a state citizen is.
Tell me, what are the things where you and Brandon don't necessarily see eye to eye in versus some of the things that you do?
Yeah, I mean, as far as the licensing, let's start with the things we do, I think, which makes it easier to talk about.
Like I said, you know, at the onset, there's always people in my inbox trying to get us pitted against each other.
And we never, none of us should do that to each other.
There are too many things that Brandon and I are aligned on.
And truly, we're wanting to see the best for, you know, everyone, which is a great place to start.
The licensing issue, I think that's horseshit.
I won't have a driver's license.
Now, how do you operate?
Well, I have a passport.
I go anywhere.
I just was California last week.
I'm getting ready to go to Miami in a couple of weeks.
So as far as me getting on a plane and stuff, not an issue.
I got some pretty strong beliefs, as Brandon does, about the licensing, the taxing, I think that's horseshit too.
I think it's clearly a voluntary thing.
And I think too many people run right to the IRS with these, let me tell you all about what's going on in my life.
I'm not one to hide anything, but like I tell some clients, when you get in court, the best thing to do is a little bit goes a long way.
It goes that way with the IRS.
The citizenship stuff, I'm a believer in the 14th Amendment.
There's where we diverge.
I think the 14th Amendment, for me, specifically, what I like about the 14, I've used it.
I continually use it to this day is two components in there, which is access to the courts and equal protection of the law.
That's what I like of the 14th Amendment.
I don't give a shit about the whole black versus white and all of that.
It was created for slave stuff.
I don't care about that.
Equal access to the courts, equal protection of the law.
Those are the two components.
And now people will misinterpret and think, oh, my God, now I love punching that button, especially with Brandon and stuff.
But the citizenship stuff, you know, I was born, raised here in the United States.
I think I'll die a United States citizen.
So I'm not above.
Now, people may have a different opinion about what that is.
And I'm all for that, by the way.
It's just, I don't get too far in the weeds on this is an Article III court.
They don't have jurisdiction because, you know, all of that stuff.
I'm the opposite.
There are other groups that, especially when you're talking about, which I can buy into, by the way, when you're talking about criminal versus civil, I live in the civil world.
When we're talking about 1681 stuff, we're talking about completely 100% civil.
So I'm always driving toward jurisdiction.
I'm going to use jurisdiction any way I can.
Solid Complaint Needed00:03:43
Hey, I'm here.
Please accept my case.
Let's jam.
Whereas a lot of folks, especially when you're talking about tickets and criminal components and this, that, and the other, and I get this, by the way, they run from jurisdiction.
It's like, hey, you don't have jurisdiction, you know, all this, that, and the other.
So I naturally understand why that's taken on.
And I understand jurisdiction is the biggest thing.
If the court does not have jurisdiction, they can't hear your case.
So there's a lot of people that will argue a lot of components of a lot of these things.
And I think a lot of it's based off of they just saw the latest video on YouTube and now they've grasped onto that.
And I think you probably know of all people, Vim, if you haven't been in the courts, you don't understand what litigation truly is.
And it's a game of theatrics and it's all procedurally based.
I don't care what anybody says outside of that.
You do need a solid complaint.
Hence the reason why in my stuff, I build out proper evidence.
I establish damages.
I give a notice of intent to sue.
So I've told my brother three times, hey, I'm getting ready to sue your ass off.
And then I go.
You know, now I go get the parties.
Now I go get the jurisdiction established and we get it on.
But even at that, I don't want, you know, there's a lot of people that look at kind of what I do and they're like, you know, for Brandon, for instance, we built out a case for him.
I helped him.
And that was one of the first things that we started jamming on where he wanted $250 million in a black card as part of his relief.
You know, now I've got him off of that.
You know, if you come into my cohort, we don't even talk like that.
Please don't say that.
I'm curious.
I'm curious because I was along for that ride with Brandon.
You know, he was like, you saw him on unlimited card.
He wants to spend $50 million a month on buying mansions and blowing them up.
I love it, by the way.
I love it.
I'd love to buy this and blow them up.
I think it goes with my ethos, you know.
But what was wrong with that whole situation in terms of him expecting an unlimited black card?
Well, I think, yeah, I heard all that stuff too.
And, you know, I'm going to draw a little stick figure and send it to him and bill him a million bucks on his black card, you know, every month too.
So, you know, we had visions of grandeur, but the complaint was solid enough.
The ask was just crazy because it's one of those things where they know.
Now, there's that whole school of thought when you get into the negotiable instruments and the Federal Reserve window and all that stuff that, you know, there's that school of thought that says, well, who gives a fuck anyway?
They're getting paid.
And, you know, and again, here's the guy coming from the auto world that I can tell you from a dealership standpoint, I never hit the Federal Reserve window.
None of my lenders, to the best of my knowledge, ever hit the Federal Reserve window.
So I'm not saying it's horseshit.
I'm saying there's no proof.
And I live in a world of proof where I have receipts around me all the time.
So a long-winded way of me saying if Amex would have taken that and accepted that, I know that as a vocal as Brandon was, and I had to get him to kind of be quiet there for a while.
You know, when you're sharing all your stuff as we're building it, you're telling them exactly what you're going to do.
And I think you know what I mean there.
So it's like, if they let that grow through, then there's going to be tomorrow 35,000 more people coming through with the same damn complaint.
I promise you, because he would have fucking done it.
Hey, look what I just did.
Infinite money.
I got a black card, you fucks.
You know, and everybody, it would have definitely declined Western civilization overnight because of Brandon.
Yes.
You know, I just, I, I don't know how good that would serve mankind to give everybody a black card and just say, go get blow and fucking planes and stuff.
And I don't know.
I think there's part of me that says that that just wouldn't work for society overall, man.
Yeah.
Paying Back and Moving On00:15:41
Yeah.
So, um, okay.
Now, in terms of the credit repair, you actually provide this service like you're showing.
I mean, do you want to talk a little bit about that?
Of like, you know, how people get in touch with you, how much something like this would cost, what it would entail.
Yeah, I can tell you the price is going up now.
Honestly, when I went to Austin, Brandon invited me to come out to speak.
I don't think that I was even on the radar.
I was helping him, glad to do that.
Had my own little thing going on on the side, but he's like, hey, bro, me and Cam have this event going on in Austin.
I would like for you to come and speak at it.
Okay, cool.
No problem.
So it did.
There was never any intention for me to do any kind of pitch.
It was in the back of my mind and I'd built out a landing page, but you know, I really wasn't 100% sold.
My wife's like, if you don't, with what you know and what you can do, you're crazy for not doing it.
Well, anyway, I talk in three days, people came up out of the woodwork and just said, dude, you're very passionate.
You're well spoken.
I can tell you got receipts.
You're showing them all along the way.
Are you going to pitch anything?
And I said, hold on to the end.
I think I'm going to.
So I did.
I pitched a 10K offer.
I took 39 Calendly invites.
23 of those I spoke to.
I sold 11 over a weekend.
So it worked out pretty well.
Now I've got testimonials, not just with me standing up on stage and blabbing my mouth and showing my receipts and receipts from customers.
Now I'm going to have the sonnies of the world, you know, that have that were part of that ecosystem that came in and says, hey, I have confidence.
Now they're getting their own receipts.
So by default, I can tell you that probably the next one, I have one starting January 5th that I'm going to teach these concepts.
I'm going to walk through.
It's a six-month immersive, all-intensive walk you through the proper disputing, establishing damages, how to file a CFPB complaint, notice of intent to sue, everything that when I say there's three goals that I have for you when you come into my ecosystem.
One is to get back every dime you gave me, 100%.
Dear and dear, that's to my heart.
I want that.
The second thing is I want your score to be the highest it's ever been, hopefully above 800.
mine is.
And then I want you to learn a skill set that you're going to be able to use for not only yourself, but a legacy for your family, friends, and so forth.
And then there was a fourth component that I didn't even know that was even in play that Sonny actually and I kind of found out together as he started negotiating.
It was the JP Morgans, the Discoverers, the Santanders, the alleged debt they thought that he owed them.
He's now negotiating that away because he had damages.
And I'll use an example there.
It's kind of funny, you know, as he's calling me and we're kind of working through these things.
And all right, here's what the attorney conversation was and blah, blah, blah.
And, you know, they're notorious for saying, well, what are you going to do about the $11,000 you owe my client?
And I said, all right, here's what we're going to say.
You know, it's got to be their idea because this happened to me with Snap on.
They thought I owed them X.
Well, they ultimately waived X and paid me Y, which is a pretty decent amount.
We use that same concept there.
So, you know, it's like, hey, okay, attorney, really, we're not even talking about that, what you're alleging that I owe your client.
We're talking about my complaint for damages.
So how about I pay the 11K to your client that you're alleging that I owe and your client sends me the bill, the check for 65K for the Lexus at Tampa Lexus that I just got denied on.
Well, that's the stupidest fucking thing in the world.
Exactly.
So let's get past this.
Well, the phone rings the next day.
And guess what?
The attorney, this young lady said, hey, my client is going to waive the $11,000.
You know, so it's like, so he's walked away from five figures of debt that they thought he owed over a few accounts, a few different companies.
And I don't want to get too far in the weeds there because that's still active and going on.
But so walking away from debt that they thought you owed, getting your money back you gave me, getting above an 800, hopefully your highest that you've ever been, and learning a skill set.
Those are the things that I want.
I'm, yeah, I'm not one that hides too far away.
I don't mind my information being out there.
Joey at prosayjoe.com.
I mean, that's the easiest way to get a hold of me.
Hell, I share my number.
I mean, if you go on the southern district of Indiana, it's not like if you pull up any one of my cases right underneath my name, it's got my contact information.
A lot of people find me that way too.
That's got my cell phone on it.
So I'm not one of those goofy guys that hides from anybody.
So, okay, I want to like wrap my head around this.
So it seems like however bad your credit is, going through this process, learning from people like you will help to repair the credit, right?
But then let me ask you this, right?
So let's say somebody comes in with terrible credit, you know, whatever, 500.
They go through this process.
I mean, how long does this take usually to repair most of the damage?
That's a great idea or great question.
So I can tell you receipts from mine.
If you looked up my case, I filed it June 15th of 2022.
You'll see on there Equifax stipulation to dismissal means I reached a settlement with them about a month after that.
So my cost.
One month after that.
Yeah, one month.
Okay.
My score went from 660 to 818 with them.
About one month later, I reached resolution with Equifax, or I mean, Experian, you can see.
I went to 839.
So about two months after I disputed things.
So let's call it four months in total.
Sonny's is a better example that's real time and it's outside of me.
It's actually somebody that I've taught how to do it.
He was a 498 when he started.
I mean, I don't think he would mind me saying that because now he's 750, you know, and he's only he's got one more to negotiate out with right now and he's doing that.
So there's, there's components there too, where utilization is something that I look at and you'll hear me preach on.
So if you have a thousand dollar credit limit and you've utilized 30 of that, you're fucked.
You know, your score is going to drop by 100 plus points.
Sonny's got not that big of example, but he has one where he's got a high utilization rate and he's okay with that because he wants to keep the card.
He could pay it off.
And I said, if you do, you're going to go even higher than $750 or whatever it is.
So it's just kind of when you learn this process, you learn, you know, I've had people consult with me, and this is a good one, Bim, a couple of years ago.
There was a young dude from Nigeria living in New York City.
There's a, there's a book in itself.
25 years old, doing everything right.
He paid everything 100%.
85-year-old kid doing this.
He had 32 car loans, 32, because he was starting a Turo thing.
So he's got this Turo game going on.
He reaches out to me.
I hook him up with consult.
I looked at his shit and I'm like, Oleo Faye is his name.
Bro, you got to get all those off of your profile.
Well, how can I do that?
I've been paying them all on time.
It's well, we're looking at the inaccuracies and that's what's going to give us the grounds to get him off.
So the moment that you get all 32, and here's the thing, his credit score was 524.
He was doing everything right.
He never missed a payment, none of that.
And his score was still 524 and he didn't understand why.
It's because his utilization was through the fucking roof.
He had tapped out his credit and then some having 32 fucking auto loans on his credit profiles.
Get all those off.
You're going to go above an 800.
Guess what you can do?
Go get another 32 cars for your Turo games.
It's kind of knowing the game, utilizing and using the law to your benefit.
I'm not saying ever go out and commit fraud or any of that stuff.
Don't do that.
Could you?
Yes.
You probably could do some dumb stuff.
I would never recommend that.
I would always say pay your bills.
But if life happens, you have alternatives out there.
I mean, so anyway, I'll go as far as that.
So theoretically, like if you're, you could just keep doing this rinse and repeat and like keep screwing up, keep going back to court, fixing it.
And essentially, I mean, it sounds like when Brandon's talking about unlimited access to cash, I mean, this would be one of the avenues.
Infinite money is what he said.
Infinite money.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I'm one of those fans, and I'll go on the record of saying this, that I think bankruptcy is the best thing in the world that we have for us, man.
You know, you'll appreciate that.
As an entrepreneur, we do a lot of fucking dumb shit.
I've had businesses.
I've been extended, you know, but I will never stress another day in this life.
And I went out and got business credit as part of this cohort because I had somebody in there that was saying they were, you know, the best in this space.
So I said, well, let's test it.
Uncle Joey's got above an 800.
So I'll go out and do it.
And I have two cards here, which I still haven't activated, but I hold them up all the time.
There's two $20,000 limit cards here that I've never activated.
I just did this as part of my cohort.
I went to Bank of America, PNC, and Chase and opened up business accounts because I had an LLC that was established.
No history on it.
I just went in and those two cards right there, 40K in 22 hours.
So Sonny naturally started, he pulls out a lot of questions.
And I appreciate that because of his law enforcement background.
It's like, okay, man, if you're going to Chase, because there was a lot of conversations with me and Chase, they wanted me to put $100,000 on tap.
They were going to give me a VIP client, you know, blah, blah, blah.
We were now talking to their merchant services.
I was doing 100 and something a month.
they're going to, you know, front me a little over a mill.
So Sonny's like, well, if you did 100K in ads and you started really kind of, cause I don't, these Cobra, I've never ran one.
Every time Brandon puts something on there, people reach out to me.
So it's been organic in nature.
But if I did something like that, and the question is, would you pay Chase back the hundred grand?
And my answer is an indefinite fuck yes, man.
Yes.
Definitely.
I'm going to pay the hundred back because I want to go to Chase next month and say, hey, Vim, I got 200K now and I'm going crazy.
You know, so there, in my opinion, is the infinite wealth side of thing.
Now, you know, we've had conversations, me, Brandon, and everybody else.
There are 4,000 banks in this country, 4,000.
So I'm not opposed to burning bridges with any one, two, or 10 of them.
You know, with 4,000 of them out there, if something goes wrong, absolutely I'll walk away from that and go reinvent myself over here and not worry about it.
So if the wolves come and they might, then I know how to properly litigate.
I know all of those things.
So part of the process and learning the litigation side of things is protecting yourself and all of that.
But I'm never going to go, and you'll hear me say that.
And I live by this.
I'm never going to go in with the intentions of screwing Chase or anybody else out of 100 stacks.
It's too hard to reestablish a relationship with another bank.
So why would I want to do that?
So now there are those out there that, hey, man, I'm going to go out and get myself known with all 4,000 fucking banks.
Good for you, man.
I'm happy for you.
I just, I don't want my life to be the rest of my days fighting in court about goofy stuff.
You know, it's possible, but not something that I'm actually desiring at all.
So I want to use the courts to my advantage if something goes wrong.
You know, if whatever that is procedurally, I think I'm going to be okay.
There's a whole trust component here that we haven't even broached the surface.
In my opinion, there's nobody out there talking trust stuff that knows what the fuck they're talking about.
I have been a trustee with three different estates now for old ladies.
Two of them have passed.
One of them is my mother-in-law.
So I know it through the trustee's eyes.
And I don't want to go down this path because, man, we could talk for three days on trusts and stuff.
But what I know now, having by the way, I would love to have you back on subsequent episodes.
I mean, I've done maybe like five episodes with Brandon.
I could tell you're one of those keepers.
Like we just, every few months, we got to get together.
But I would love to have the trust conversation on one of these episodes.
A great one, man.
Yeah, because too many people look at, as I've shared with Brandon, even just like the complaint for 1681, they'll look at that and I'm calling it Noah's Ark.
They'll do the same fucking thing with trusts and they think, oh my God, I built the best trust.
Okay, great.
What happens whenever you're fucking gone?
Your trustee is the one.
I was the one that had to go learn this stuff because the little old ants had no idea what they were throwing in my lap because I didn't know what they were throwing in my lap.
So I had to go learn trust law from the trustee's standpoint to navigate those waters.
And I can tell you, dude, the banks don't know shit about trust law.
The financial advisors, I damn sure know.
I had to cuss him and he's one of my Masonic brothers, Andy.
You know, fuck her, send me my check, you know, and the other one is the attorneys, you know?
So when you go out there as the trustee, you're in a fucking pond of a place where people don't even know what the hell you're even talking about.
So somebody coming to me and saying, you know, when I go in there and kick open the door and say, hey, I'm here to collect the bank saying, oh, well, I need testamentary papers.
And that goes right.
Testamentary papers.
What the fuck kind of retard are you?
That's for probate.
We're not doing anything probate.
I'm the trustee for this.
It's like they don't even know what they're saying, man.
I mean, it's like, anyway, a whole other episode.
You know, it's funny because it seems as though these, I call them bar agents because I think they're agents of something very foreign.
Yes.
Almost hinting like they're treasonous actors, maybe, whatever, bar agents, you know?
Yes.
They don't know much, it seems like.
It seems like we think they're layman things, oh, lawyer threatening whatever, scary, Joey Brandon.
And I would put myself in that class where to me, it's kind of like, no, dude, let's rock and roll.
Like, you guys don't know what the hell you're talking about.
Are they crippled by their own education that leaves out a lot of the information that you and Brandon know?
I think they're crippled by their ego.
I think they're not used to seeing you, me, and Brandon in the pro se capacity as somebody that actually has some intelligence that starts speaking in a procedural manner instead of I'm a free man, blood flowing through my veins, kind of dumb shit, where you get labeled a sovereign citizen and they just all ignore you.
I think they're used to talking to their own kind.
I know that for a fact.
So they go into it very lethargic.
They're the laziest fucking group of people I've ever said.
And I'm saying that with all the love I can muster there.
They just throw shit across and they're not used to you or I that can say, look at it procedurally and say, this isn't going to work.
This is way fucked, you know?
So they're used to getting away with that with their own attorney base because here's why.
And I used to run leads for a bankruptcy attorney here in Indianapolis.
And I had this conversation with him.
He's probably the biggest in Indiana.
He said, the thing that who makes the most money?
And it's the divorce attorneys because the attorneys will get on both sides of the equation, your attorney and then the woman's attorney, and they don't give two fucks.
They're both making 20 stacks apiece, you know, to get you guys to get each other's throat.
And then they're looking at each other smiling even more, which is horrible.
You know, get you a good mediator.
So my point is, is they're set up for billables.
And you find that as soon as you enter the court, they want this thing to drag on.
I actually, in my Amex case in Indiana state court right now, like I said, anybody can look at it.
Set Up for Billables00:03:11
It's been going on since December 8th of 2020.
I love it.
I want it to go on till the end of time.
I'm learning so much in that case about how far they'll go away and do everything outside of the procedural norms.
So it's all about billables.
I can tell you in that case where Amex thinks I owe them 15 racks, they've paid in maintenance fees alone over the last four years way more than 15 racks and they're not going to get 10 cents out of me.
So that's just the way the court systems are built, man.
And I've seen just about everything, man.
I mean, you name it.
The bar cards are definitely, there's a high mortality rate there for a reason.
I think if you're a spiritual being, I think you are.
If you're even, you know, a biblical being, going a step further, read Luke 11, 45 through 52, and it tells you everything you need to know.
So it's where Jesus admonishes those fuck faces three times.
He turns Luke 11, 45 through 52.
And that's where he admonishes those fucks three times.
Lawyers and bankers and stuff.
It's lawyers and preachers, actually.
Two of my favorite.
So he goes from the way, by the way, biggest scumbags ever.
People talk about preachers.
What I love about this last six months is that they're actually being exposed.
And by the way, I knew this when COVID happened because when those people started shutting down their churches, man, I consider myself I'm an Armenian Orthodox.
Nice.
And, you know, we're ancient, you know.
And so when these guys started shutting down their churches, man, I was like, dude, this is like Satanism right here that you're doing.
And the thing that really bothers me is that, you know, you're obviously Christian, right?
Okay.
So I would, you know, I use that lightly.
I don't go to church.
I never will go to church, but I feel like I know you could call me that and you probably wouldn't be wrong.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, the idea of applying to government for the right of keeping your church open already, it's like, dude, you haven't read the Bible, guys.
Like you're a priest and you're applying to government.
Okay.
And then we all know where that government hierarchy goes.
We all know what's up with these inversion of laws, statutory laws, really there for victimless crimes.
Very satanic type stuff if you actually read the teachings of Christ, but yet they're following the directions of government.
So to me, the idea of even applying for a 508 for a church is like you've lost the script.
You got it.
Yeah, part of his admonishment there to go on with this thought.
And I love this.
I love this part of the conversation is when he's admonishing him that he's like, your fathers killed the prophets and you motherfuckers.
Now I'm ad libbing and I'm adding, you know, for dramatic effect.
I don't think he said that, but you motherfuckers took away the key of knowledge.
You took it away and you're not adding one fucking iota to helping my people out.
So he admonishes them tremendously, man.
And that's the biggest thing.
And then you go to Jose.
Jose, I think it's four, six through eight.
And I'm probably going to fuck that up, but I'm pretty close.
And in there in scripture, it clearly tells you, dude, my people will perish for lack of knowledge.
Administrative Battles and Taxes00:08:19
I can't put that any clearer for what that's telling you right there.
He's telling you you're taking the key of knowledge away.
I've found that in the courts too, by the way, when they're talking about presumptive arguments and horseshit.
And then he's telling you, you know, in Jose saying, my people will perish for lack of knowledge.
So here we are.
If we're not all willing to learn together, and this is what I'm kind of bringing this full circle now, I'm never going to be at Brandon's throat any more than I'm going to be in your throat or anybody else because you guys are fucking out there kicking up the dust and doing the stuff that I'm doing.
I mean, why, why would any of us get pitted against one of each?
You know, it's this, that just doesn't make any sense.
We're all searching for the key of knowledge.
We're asking for wisdom.
We're doing exactly what Solomon said, you know, arguably the richest dude of all time.
So I just want wisdom, bro.
I just, I want to get up tomorrow.
I get to go in this room right over here.
I've been married to this woman for 32 years.
God love her.
If she lets me, I get to sleep with her tonight in a warm bed and five below zero.
I have food in the fridge.
I got plenty of money in the bank.
Our shit's paid off.
It's in a trust.
Blah, blah, blah.
Kids are happy.
I have two grandchildren now.
I mean, I don't need anymore, bro.
I mean, it's crazy.
So anyway, I just, I have zero.
I'm probably the most respectful person in a court.
Even when I talk to these fuckers, I can't stand.
When I get on the phone with an attorney, I truly want to go through them.
And this is the fastest way to get to the client because you're not going to be able to pick up the phone, Vim, and call Santander.
I promise you that.
This is what I was telling Sonny, you know, as he was getting wound up and I had to bring him back down.
What do you want, bro?
What's your why?
We need to figure that out here real quick.
I want to win like you.
Okay, now we can get aligned.
You got to use that person as the advocate, not only for them, but for you as well.
You're going to talk to them.
They can pick up the phone and be on, you know, with Santander in 30 seconds, which that's funny.
If you look at Sonny's case, and he's in the middle district of Florida, if anybody wants to look, Sonny Faro, F-A-R-R-O-W.
So if you look at his case, and this is why I do a power of attorney with anybody that comes in the cohort too.
So on October 1st, he gets the main attorney call him, Mr. Faro, frivolous, meritless, and you're an asshole.
Remember those things I keep saying.
And he laughed just like I instructed him to do.
And he got past that guy.
And, you know, we're going to file a motion to compel arbitration.
That's the favorite one they like to do, all the credit card companies and any lender.
So they did October 1st.
And these are receipts.
I'm not bullshitting you.
You can go on there and look.
October 1st, they file their motion to compel arbitration.
I see it.
I'm trained to look procedurally at their horseshit.
I see three things right away that they're doing wrong.
And I said, Sonny, send me these four things.
I'll build it out.
I'm going to upload everything to chat bot.
We're going to have a really good session.
I'll have you something in the morning.
So then you'll get, you'll see on there the motion to strike on October 2nd.
October 3rd.
We've reached a settlement.
We're good.
So you have to come at them with the same as you're posturing.
And that's what people don't understand.
Just because they said they're a motion to compel arbitration, who gives a fuck?
Who are you?
You come back at them with all the procedural issues that they got.
Then they put the water cooler boy in there because Carter's ego can't handle this anymore, knowing he just got kicked in the fucking nuts.
They put Kirk or whatever the hell his name was.
And then on the third, never mind, guys, we settled.
You know, that's what perfect is supposed to look like.
So people will get in there and they just want to bump dicks with the attorneys.
That's not me, bro.
I'm going to find out what they're doing wrong.
I'm going to point it out.
I'm going to give them a chance to, hey, man, let's get this fixed.
But I truly, man, this is the second chapter of my life.
I've been in the corporate world.
I've owned a ton of businesses.
I've now kind of switched gears and this is what I enjoy doing, man.
And I think I'm good at it.
I go on and say that all the time that I'm the best.
And I truly believe that.
Brandon thinks you're the best, man.
And I appreciate that.
You're sounding like the best.
So last question I have.
Yeah, bro.
Could a lot of this is going into court necessary?
Could this be fought on paper?
Or should people that are doing this process just get used to the idea that they're going to have to get in the courtroom?
They got to prepare themselves.
Yeah, I think there's a whole school out there.
And it's funny, I'll see this on Brandon's page sometime.
You guys all know, and it's administrative and blah.
There is no such thing.
I think the administrative part of this is doing the letter writing and sending and building your disputes and everything.
And I think that's great.
You're building evidence along the way.
That's the administrative process.
And I'll use an example I think is really good.
I'm taking on property taxes in the state of Indiana right now.
So last year, my wife's trust that owns our house and my mother-in-law's trust that owns her condo.
You get mother-in-law gets a 22% property tax hike.
Joey's wife's trust gets a 17% hike.
So I naturally, most people don't look at this, but when they get that assessment in the mail from their county assessor, they just kind of glaze past it.
But in a little print there, at least in Indiana, it'll tell you what the basis was of why they did this.
And then it'll give you, you know, instructions on, hey, if you don't agree with this, you can file appeal.
Well, guess what Uncle Joey did?
He filed the appeals, filed a, I think it's form 130.
Well, then that gets me in front of the assessor and the her board.
And I'm like, well, wait a minute.
This is like me being in front of my wife who told me to fucking do dishes this morning and I didn't do dishes and now I'm appealing to her.
This just doesn't make any sense.
You know, I'm sitting in front of the lady who just, you know, so now it goes, they've send back a form 115 telling me go fuck myself.
And then now I have to file a form 131, which is to appeal to the state of Indiana.
That is administrative process right there.
If I would have skipped any of those steps and went straight to litigation, which is where I'm naturally inclined, the 1.0 version of Joey, 2.0 says, you know what?
I'll play the whole fucking game.
And then when my request for relief there will not be to just keep the taxes where they should be, which honestly, they shouldn't be at all.
I'll be, I'll be getting them as a request for relief to removed.
So that's a long-winded way of me saying, I don't believe.
Now, they could prove me wrong and say, you know what?
We're just going to remove your property taxes.
I think all of us know the reality of what's going on.
You know, we're going to go all the way through.
I'm going to appeal.
They're going to say pound sand.
I'm going to go to the get in front of the state of Indiana now.
They're going to say pound sand.
I'm telling you, it's a RICO thing.
You're not taking the property that I paid, blah, And then we're going to have to have a just, that is now when there is a justiciable controversy.
We can't agree on these things.
They're saying they can raise property taxes 22%.
If mother-in-law doesn't pay those next year, guess what?
It goes for tax sale, something that her and my father-in-law paid for how many years.
And now because they don't pay a thousand in property taxes or their estate, now you're going to come take it.
What kind of fucking gangster shit is that?
So anyway, that's the administrative process right there.
I just unrolled it for you.
And I'll probably be in tax court here soon.
But 1681 is the same way.
You've got to build it.
You've got to tell them what they're doing wrong, just like Jesus did in the Bible.
Tell your brother three times.
I just don't see, I've not seen anything yet that has successfully administratively worked outside of those one-offs like for the debt collectors that come along that you can shoe them off.
Like I was saying earlier, you know, validate the shit.
Tell me where you're licensed in the state of Indiana.
That stuff works.
You know, the whole credit repair world that I used to be in, I used to have a credit repair company called 247 Credit Fix.
And I hated it.
It was the greasiest fucking business I'd ever.
And this is coming from a guy that owned auto used car dealerships.
So, you know, to say that that is the whole model of them is to, hey, I'm going to hit you for $2.97 onboarding.
And then it's $99 a month to send out these magic letters that, by the way, if I went, I could go crazy with that.
And you're going to think I'm the second coming of Christ because as it's being disputed, your shit comes off.
Here's the problem.
Three months later, after it's, you know, verified, it comes back on and I'm gone, you know, in the Chinese sands or some shit.
So that's what I see these companies do.
They come in, they hit it hard, they send these magic letters calling it administrative stuff.
Answering Complaints Strategically00:12:12
And then, you know, they don't understand that as it's being disputed, it comes off, but then it goes back on.
And litigation for me, this is the way I'm answering it.
Litigation is the only way, man.
It's the only way to move the needle.
Yeah, yeah.
Which cuts down so many people.
I mean, that is just so threatening to a lot of people to stand up against until you start seeing them for like kind of the weak douchebags they are, you know, like until you start getting the Brandon point of view, your point.
I love the way Brandon like kind of talks about them and stuff, you know, in terms of he just wants to have a cemetery full of the bar agents, you know.
Well, there's some validity in that from all of them I've seen.
It's very rare that I find one.
The one that actually trained me, trained, he didn't know he was training me, but when I did the snap-on case, and that's part of the settlement, if you ever have any settlements in these regards, there's, there's only two components, no disparaging comments and no discussion of what we settled for, you know, so I'm never going to talk shit about snap-on.
Fuck, quite honestly, I still wear the snap-on coat around my, I love them.
They were just a billion-dollar company that fucked up, you know, and I told them.
So anyway, they hire a big attorney firm out of Chicago and that young man that came on, he was actually a good dude.
Now, now I say good dude.
Now, I know Joe Kern would have slit my fucking throat and left me off to the side of the road dead.
But at the end of that case, we had a mutual respect for one another.
And in a lot of that case was me being a dumbass and learning.
But he was teaching me along the way because every time he'd say, oh, Mr. Kimbrough, you can't do that.
I'd say, bro, hold my beer.
Here we go.
So I sued five more defendants in that.
I sued the CEO, the president of the company, and three board members.
Well, you can't do that.
You're piercing the corporate veil.
Fuck you.
We're just going to have to agree to disagree.
That led to a hearing.
The magistrate at Kelly Bar agreed with me.
She allowed me.
So now I'm joking with this guy on the phone.
Mr. Kern, I just raised your fucking retainer 5X, bro.
You should be sending me a credit or you sending me a Christmas card, you know?
And he's laughing his ass off and just, well, there was some read across there, Mr. Kimbrough.
But yeah, we did okay.
I know you did, you fuck.
And I'm happy that you did, you know, but, you know, so there are things that at the end of that, I didn't even know what a settlement conference was.
I had no idea until he said, hey, why don't we do a settlement conference?
And I'm like, well, shit, bro.
All right.
Yeah, whatever.
You know, and there's a whole process there.
You know, you, you got to go.
And it's a Zoom call and the magistrate comes on, Kelly Barr.
And everybody there has to be able to write a check.
So it's me, Joe Kern, and Mike Walsh, who's the senior vice president of Snap-on.
He's there because he's got to write a check if his mouth overrides his ass.
You know, we sent our settlements, you know, before that, you know, seven days prior.
Well, shit, mine was like 16.75 million is what I was asking.
And they were like zero.
So we didn't get anything in the hour and a half we were in that settlement conference.
And, you know, at the end of that, the magistrate says, Mr. Kimbrough, we're just not going to reach arrest.
I get it.
Thank you so much, Your Honor, for the court's time.
One week later, we settled.
You know, it was one more phone call.
It's like, hey, bro, let's get this thing done, you know.
And we did.
And they came with an amount.
I settled.
They said they're going to hang my picture up in there as public enemy number one in Chicago.
Joe, all this is joking, by the way.
Maybe it is.
I don't know.
I may never be able to go to Chicago and go to Snap-on's headquarters, but I think they're a great company.
I think he's a great attorney.
You're not going to hear me say that too many, too many times, but it was the one that taught me how to do this stuff.
And for that, I'm forever grateful.
And, you know, as fate would have it, I had this young dude in my community, Tim Branion, who is a 35-year-old veteran, came across, hey, man, can you do that for me?
So that naturally, we did the same thing.
You can see that case, Southern District as well, Branion v. Experian et al.
And we sued eight, he sued eight defendants in that.
I say we, because if you read about the sixth docket entry, you'll see where the court's telling me to stay the fuck out of it.
They're not going to tell me again kind of thing.
And I've been told that a few times.
So it's like, hey, man, you're going to have to do this.
They're going to know I'm part of it.
Anyway, the funny thing about that one is you'll hear me say this in a lot of open stuff is Experian's attorney got on the open record in a hearing and said, Mr. Kimbrough is starting a cottage industry and Experian's not going to have any part.
And at the end of that call, after we made the magistrate fall in love with Tim, Mr. Ranyon, were you a veteran?
Yes, Your Honor.
Two tours.
Any commendations?
Yes.
Two silver stars, you know, and I'm sitting over there just copping wood because I'm making them hear all of this.
All the attorneys on the phone call are hearing this love fest between the magistrate and my guy.
So at the end of that, we settled with JP Morgan and Equifax, I think it was.
Anyway, there's no love loss with Experian.
They don't necessarily like me, and there's good reason for that.
But just fix your fucking shit, man.
If you're listening to this, fix your shit and stop fucking with people and I'll go away.
But I don't think that's going to happen.
None of that.
Man, Joey, this is awesome, brother.
I would love to have you back on.
You know, you have such a wealth of information that I think our viewers will love.
And, you know, certainly I want to take your credit repair situation and go through that myself.
You know, maybe we could even track that and show, you know, how a dude like me is doing it, you know?
Yeah, that'd be cool, man.
That'd be awesome.
Be cool to do.
Awesome, brother.
Awesome.
For the viewers out there, by the way, Joey, did we forget to mention anything that's worth mentioning?
Your links?
Anyway, you know, you already gave your email address, but if you want to repeat any of that stuff in the video, yeah, joey at prosejoe.com is easiest way to get a hold of me, man.
I mean, shit, I don't even care about sending my cell number, man.
I mean, shit, you've got it.
765-437-8451 is my cell.
If you're going to send me titpics, that's okay.
But if you're going to be a dick, I say this often.
It's easy for me to block people.
So just don't be a dick.
If you're going to reach out to me and you got good reason to, man, do it.
But don't tell me about your foreclosure and get me crying and all that other shit.
There's plenty of that that happens.
I like to keep it in the credit space, man.
If I branch off, it's probably Brandon only and some of his stuff.
I really, I would hate to, the thing that I would tell somebody that's going through, and God, anybody that's going through foreclosures, that's horrible, or anything that was a result of just this crazy world we live in.
I would say, man, learn all you can about those four buckets I was talking about.
Not a huge fan of Dr. Graves, only because he's, he's a practicing barcard in the state of Florida.
I don't think a lot of people, but I'm not going to disparage.
I'm not going to talk shit about him.
I think he has a product out there that's a really good baseline, creating evidence kind of a product, Dr. Graves, Vern Graves, or whatever the hell his name is.
If you look him up, he's got some good stuff.
Now, the other side of that and me, where my mind goes, is if he's a bar card, why isn't he telling you about the rules of evidence and all that other shit that he could really help you out with?
So the basics are there.
Study his stuff if you need to.
Look at those four buckets that we talked about earlier, them and myself.
And you've got a really good fighting chance.
The thing that I see that I share with Brandon, and I know I've heard him say this a number of times and he always references me is there's a trillion dollars of default judgments out there.
I've read that somewhere, man, and I believe that to be true.
And I was one of those once upon a time just because I didn't know how to fucking answer his service when it came at me.
So if anything you do, look at your local rules in your court, if it comes in state court, especially foreclosures or any of that stuff.
Look at what your local rules say.
It's going to tell you you need to file an appearance.
That's really easy.
Use ChatGPT, man.
It is good.
Don't trust ChatGPT any farther than you can throw it, but verify everything it tells you if you need it to build stuff.
It'll build you some really good shit.
If you say, hey, build me an appearance pursuant to Indiana rules of civil procedure in this county court, it'll do that.
So you'll have that.
Take the PDF of the complaint that it's usually only one or two pages because I told you earlier they're lazy as fuck.
Upload that and tell them you want to respond in opposition and add affirmative defenses to that.
So that would be the only prompt that I would give that, man.
And I hope this helps people.
I truly do.
I'm thinking about putting together a freebie as far as how to handle debt collectors and maybe even one on how to handle a complaint that comes at you so that there are no more.
A perfect world for me would be a world where there are no default judgments, where you got in and you got your fucking face smashed on the ground.
That's okay with me.
At least you went down fighting.
Don't just let them get a default and then come and rip all the shit out of your account because they got a supplemental, just a preceding supplemental where they just go in and get an order to go and clean your bank accounts out.
Man, I hate that for people.
I see it.
I see it all the time.
People reach out to me and, you know, hey, I've got this credit card and I'm laughing.
You know, it's $1,355.
What do I do, Uncle Joey?
And I'm like, holy fuck, bro.
$1,355.
I hope you can make it.
You know, it's like some of the goofiest shit when there are really people out there struggling with like foreclosures and some of the dumb shit that the banks have been allowed to do to people.
Get a file an appearance, answer the complaint, put affirmative defenses as part of that answer on the complaint and watch what happens.
It's going to immediately change if you just answer the complaint.
I mean, that buys you so much time, even if you can't prevail, which you will prevail.
Uncle Joey's got all the belief in you in the world, man.
I truly mean that.
If you just answer the complaint, you've just bought yourself so much time there if you're going through a shitville.
While you can learn the processes and stuff that I'm talking about, learn the procedural.
They are fucking up.
They are trying to steal stuff from you, man.
I promise you that.
I'm not lying to you.
But anything in that complaint, you know, first and foremost is file a 12v6.
That's a, that's a, a motion to dismiss for failure to state a claim.
That's the biggest one.
You will find a reason in there for getting it dismissed if you just look.
You know, whether it's uh in my case, uh, they served a summons, they didn't even sign, stamp, date it.
Those are procedural, fatal flaws that they can't get past.
The court cannot take jurisdiction of that horseshoe now, and all of a sudden it's a that's a simulated simulated legal process.
So, when you start hearing and seeing those things, those are very real.
And there's not, I truly say this, and I'm not saying this in jest.
If you get served anything, you can win.
Man, it's I'm not talking about traffic tickets and all that other shit.
I'm talking about saving your fucking home if that's what you need to do, getting yourself out of any of this horseshit where they're trying to rape your bank accounts and all of that.
Man, it's like that stuff is just goofy.
But it's that presumptive argument that I was talking about earlier.
If they say something, it turns into fact, and I'm not mad at them because they're doing it and they're doing what the rules say they can do.
And you and I just didn't know it.
My people will perish for lack of knowledge.
Go get the fucking knowledge.
It's out there.
It's really easy.
Keyword search any of these rules that I'm talking about.
Look at your local courts' rules and stuff.
And I can show you.
Me and Vim, I'm sure we'll do other episodes with just this talk right here.
And I can share so many nuggets for you to be able to show you some examples in my Amex case.
They don't show up for hearings.
They don't file appearances.
They just do all kinds of things that they can't do, but they will do and get away with it if you don't know how to properly address it.
So that's it, man.
Well, dude, we're going to have you back on.
I can't wait to have you back on and we'll get into more specifics and details.
Thank you so much for coming onto the Blood Money podcast.
For the viewers out there, thank you very much for joining us.
Make sure you go to AmericaHappens.com where we have all of our featured episodes.
We're on pretty much all the podcasting platforms where you could download this episode as an audio podcast.
And thank you so much for joining us.
I will see you all on the next episode of Blood Money.
Thank you.
Mining Gaju Maru00:03:42
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A New Economic Reality00:00:55
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