Udo Warteena and William Keel recount early 20th-century alien encounters in Oregon and Ontario, detailing metallic crafts utilizing green hoses to extract water or hydrogen while humanoid figures in iridescent suits manipulate square substructures. Despite discrepancies in Warteena's evolving accounts regarding flywheel gravity drives and Lazar-like propulsion, the recurring motifs of aquatic extraction and specific craft designs across decades suggest a pattern of non-interference protocols. Ultimately, these cases challenge conventional UFO timelines by placing documented human-alien interactions seven years before Roswell, hinting at a long-standing, secretive extraterrestrial presence on Earth. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, Qwen/Qwen3-ForcedAligner-0.6B, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
|
Time
Text
The 1940 Roswell Encounter00:05:21
In 1940, seven years prior to the crash in Roswell, New Mexico, Udo Hortena reported an encounter in the Montana foothills that predates nearly all modern UFO cases.
Hortena was a Dutch migrant who lived a steady practical life in the United States as a hydroelectric plant operator, mining engineer, and prospector.
He was also quite religious and known for being quiet and dependable.
Late in his life, he shared a handwritten manuscript with a small group of his friends.
Describing an encounter.
That document is the source of everything we know about what had happened.
The encounter happened while he was inspecting an old mining claim.
Ortana said he came across a disc shaped craft in a clearing and saw two beings associated with it.
He described them as fully human in appearance.
And you guessed it tall, blonde, muscular, and calm.
One stepped out and spoke to him in clear, deliberate English while the other remained inside the craft.
Ortana said the interaction. Was a conversation.
No abduction, no missing time, no weird experiments, no little green men, no gray men with giant eyes.
He described speaking to two human like entities directly about who they were, why they were here, what they wanted, and how their technology operated.
This is, at its core, a documented conversation with an alien.
Years before Roswell and years before any established UFO narrative existed.
Let's take a closer look, shall we?
Hi there.
I'm not going to give you my name.
I'm an airline pilot.
Used to fly for an airline that did a lot of DOD charters, and one of these charters frequently would go to Gitmo.
I was doing a different charter, but the captain had just did a trip the week prior down to Gitmo.
And we're sitting in crews, the plane's empty.
We're not really doing much.
And we start talking bullshit.
And he's like, oh, man.
He's like, you got to see the UFO video.
And I'm like, what?
What UFO video?
What are you talking about?
And he calls up one of the flight attendants and he's like, yeah, yeah, look, this is a real thing.
So we get together.
They take out their phone.
And on the video screen, it's like it's kind of zoomed out, half zoomed out.
The depth of field is hard to see, but there's something traveling along the water.
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of the Area 52 podcast, otherwise known as Debrief.
My name is Chris Ramsey, and today we're going to be taking a look at one of my favorite types of read throughs basically, a conversation with an extraterrestrial being.
Now, what makes this one particularly special, as you've seen in the intro, is that it happened.
Seven years prior to what seems like the genesis of modern UFO interaction, Roswell, New Mexico crash.
This is from a prospector, a religious person, somebody who's very sort of humble and calm and quiet.
And later in his life, he shares this manuscript with his close friends only.
I hadn't heard about this case, and it sort of popped up in my feed somehow, and I was instantly drawn towards it because not only are we going to be talking about these humanoid.
Figures which seem to crop up a lot, mostly after 1950, never before, which is interesting, other than possibly the magenta crash in 1933.
But what I find most fascinating about this is this gentleman never went on a convention circuit, never sold a book, never tried to publicize this.
In fact, never went public at all.
And I think that's where a lot of the credibility for me lies.
Now, this gentleman sadly passed away in 1989, but before that, he gave his manuscript to his close friends and family.
And there was also an interview done with one of his close friends who is not a UFO researcher and not somebody who believes in this stuff, but a close friend of his took notes about their conversation.
His name was Tim Grossnickel.
Also, his transcript.
And all of this is courtesy of James Thompson.
So, James Thompson put out a book in it, has a bunch of different cases around Area 51, around UFOs, around alien interactions.
And we're pulling chapter, I guess, chapter six or something like that of his book.
I'll leave the link in the description if you want to check it out for yourself.
But in there is the verbatim transcript of not only his manuscript, but also the subsequent.
Interview.
And this was first published, I think, in 2013, 2012, 2013.
Prior to that, the only public knowledge that was available was through a gentleman, a UFO researcher, Warren P. Aston.
He had a symposium in Australia in 1997, and there's a video on that.
Discovering Warren Aston's Case00:06:30
You can watch that.
I'll leave the link to that one as well below.
But he presented the analysis of the 1940 Udo Warteina case.
And this kind of blew everyone's mind, projected it into the spotlight once again.
Although it did crop up in, you know, newspapers here and there, this was widely overlooked, I would say, in the UFO space, even to this day.
And so, you know, here at Area 52, what we like doing more than anything is shedding light on some of these more, I guess, niche interactions and encounters, the stuff that sort of flies under the radar.
And that's exactly what we're going to be doing today.
But, folks, Right before we get into all of that, I want to announce something incredibly exciting and very special to me, very near and dear.
We interrupt this broadcast for a very important briefing.
You've been selected purely at random and definitely not monitored to attend a routine informational briefing regarding odd happenings across the globe.
There's absolutely nothing unusual about this.
That's right, it's probably nothing.
Agents Ramsey and Michaels will embark on a perfectly ordinary North American tour to discuss strange sightings.
Testimonies, and evidence that will force the government to say, It's probably nothing.
Each evening's sessions will feature expert analysis, audience interrogation, and at least one moment where you turn to the person next to you and whisper, Well, but rest assured, it's probably nothing.
Should you experience confusion, excitement, or sudden clarity during the show, do not worry.
It's probably nothing.
Whether you're a believer, a skeptic, or simply dating one, your attendance is highly encouraged and statistically safe.
So, if you're in Austin, Texas, or in Montreal, Canada, go to it'sprobablynothing.com to secure your seats today.
And remember crash saucers, mysterious abductions, nuclear flyovers.
It's probably nothing.
Now, back to your regular scheduled programming.
There you go, folks.
We are officially going on tour.
Now, if all goes well, we'll be hitting North America, probably up and around 20 to 30 cities is the idea.
And we're going to be taking the show on the road, filming the entire thing, meeting you guys in person.
I'm super, super stoked for this.
Incredibly nervous because I hope it sells some tickets.
It'd be weird to sit in one of these big theaters with a handful of people.
But alas, that is the risk I'm willing to take.
To hang out with you.
So, if you want to check out the first two shows, links below it's probably nothing.com.
And you can buy your tickets for either Austin or Montreal.
I am incredibly excited for both of those dates.
I can barely contain my excitement.
And yeah, we'll keep you updated with more news about the event as it unfolds.
But do rest assured, a lot of those tickets are going to go fast, especially like the VIP packages.
So, check them out as early as you can.
Appreciate you.
Okay.
All right.
Like this video, subscribe, hit the notification bell, and we just paid the bills.
Let's get into reading this incredible encounter by Udo Warteena.
Again, this is from James Thompson.
This is the full publication of his encounter or his.
So, James, I think, got his hands on the official manuscript, and that's what this is here.
But also, what we're going to be doing, I do have a case that is slightly related to Warteena's one of.
The many pieces of information that Wartana gives.
And I've printed that out as well because I want to read through that with you guys.
Now, it should be noted I did not read through this thing.
I read the cliff notes of the case, but when it comes to the conversation, I'm completely in the dark.
We're discovering this together.
I think that's what makes this exciting.
So here we go.
I am pleased to inform the reader that the following experience was brought to the world's attention for the first time by my research.
For my first UFO related book and was utilized as a case presented by Mufon and was published in UFO Magazine in the March April 1998 issue without my permission.
Okay.
Mufon has called the case the most significant humanoid contact case on record.
Pretty bold statement, if I do say so myself.
Like, that's a big deal.
Also, Mr. Thompson does sound a little salty about, you know, his.
His thing being published.
Now, I guess he's a researcher and he came across this manuscript and it was published without his permission, but it's not his manuscript.
However, maybe he did have the rights to publishing it.
I don't know the full story, but alas, you know, we just want to get through this and read about the encounter.
I had heard about an encounter experienced by an elderly man at my church.
I contacted Tim, an acquaintance of the elderly man, Udo Hortena.
Who had learned from his father that Udo had a close encounter many years before?
After learning all that he could from his father about the incident, Tim interviewed Udo Warteena about the encounter.
Tim made notes which he shared with me, and those notes follow the account that Udo had shared in a letter to Senator John Glenn, the famous astronaut.
Whoa, that's news to me, by the way.
I didn't realize that that had happened.
This is crazy.
The letter was addressed to Senator John Glenn because Udo felt that the technology he had learned from the UFO occupants.
Might assist in the US government during that time of extreme energy shortage in the country.
This is 1980.
Wow.
Imagine being just like a humble man, prospector, engineer, immigrant, you know, you've lived your fullest life.
Writing to Senator Glenn00:15:22
And out of nowhere, you're like, you know what?
I'm going to decide to write that letter to Senator John Glenn, former astronaut.
About my alien encounter.
I think that could help him out a little bit in his energy crisis.
Like, that is a wild reason to like make something up, by the way.
Again, this wasn't public.
So it's like, why would you, did he lose the plot?
Like, that's the only other explanation here is that he might have like developed some type of mental break or psychosis.
And because other than that, what other reason do you have for making something up like that?
Here's a letter.
Uta Wartena, West Lynn, Oregon, 1980.
In the forepart of May 1940, I had gone up the mountain and I found a glacier deposit.
And from all indications, I had every possibility of carrying values.
As I was working part time for the Northwest Mining Co., I could only prospect on my days off.
So it was into the summer before I could prove the ground.
There were a lot of large boulders to move, but when I got to bedrock, I found some fine gold.
As I would need water for washing the material, I figured it was wise to bring the water down to where I could see it.
The early day miners had dug a ditch around the mountainside.
This was over 60 years before my time.
So, after clearing the logs and large trash out of it, I diverted the water out of the creek into the ditch.
As the ditch had not been used in these many years, it was quite a mess.
The ditch was practically level for the first quarter of a mile, so it was late in the afternoon by the time it would flow freely.
The next morning, I cleaned the main ditch to where I put the dam, then dug a ditch to where I could use the water.
As the work for the Northwest Mining Co. had picked up, I wasn't able to work the prospect too much, though every spare day I had was used there.
I still had some large boulders to move, and while doing this one morning, I heard a noise like that of a high flying plane.
As Army planes flying over from Great Falls.
At first, I didn't take much note, but as the noise continued, I thought a car had driven up.
So I got upon higher ground.
I saw, where I'd put the dam in the main ditch, a large, I will call it a ship.
It looked like a blimp, only more pointed on each end and not as thick through the middle.
About 35 feet thick, Better than a hundred feet long.
As I stood there, a stairway was let down and a man came down this and started walking towards me.
As I was somewhat more than interested, I went to meet him.
He stopped when we were about 10 or 12 feet apart.
Again, I love the reference to like a blimp.
An airplane would be interesting.
I suppose back then you had in 1940, you know, this was during the war.
So I'd imagine there was, you know, potential aerial traffic, maybe to and from the coastline.
I don't know.
I have no idea.
But.
You know, describing it as a metallic blimp.
Man, 100 feet is huge.
Think about that.
The Bob Lazar's craft was described to be, I think, 48 feet, close to 50 feet in diameter.
So it's twice that size, about the size of the craft that crashed down in Aztec, New Mexico, only that craft was about 18 feet high.
This one was double.
So clearly, much more of a rounder, Oval shape and less of a saucer disc shape.
He was a nice looking man, seemingly about my age, 35 or more.
He wore a light gray pair of coveralls, a tam, like a Scottish soft hat with a short brim, of the same material on his head, and on his feet were slippers or moccasins.
All right, very bohemian, you know, looking.
Presence here.
He asked me if it would be all right if they took some of the water.
I could not see why not.
I said sure.
He then gave a signal, and a hose or pipe was let down.
His English was like mine, but he spoke slowly, as if he was a linguist.
He asked me what I was doing.
I explained this to him.
He asked me if I would be interested to come aboard, as he seemed An intelligent and pleasant person.
I figured it would be interesting.
I love Udo.
Udo is the right kind of person for these types of interactions.
And maybe they knew that, you know, upon landing there, that they're like, this guy's going to be chill.
We're going to invite him in.
You know, he's not going to try and shoot us, he's not going to throw his pickaxe at our skulls.
He will be, you know, just chill.
I wonder if there was, you know, because you think back to.
If you're familiar with the Charles Hall interaction with the tall whites, now Charles Hall obviously on the spectrum when it comes to being autistic.
He clearly has some type of savant syndrome, Is able to recall things very clearly, but is also incredibly sort of practically minded in that, like, just follows directives and kind of straightforward, not too over emotional.
And they seem to be really comfortable with him because of that fact.
Now, maybe here Udo shares some of, you know, similar personality traits.
Who knows?
But I only gather that because Udo is also like an engineer and, you know, Just seems like a figure who is very comfortable just being by himself as well.
As we got closer to the ship, I noticed that it was round, like two dinner plates, one inverted over the other.
It seemed to be made of metal.
As I look back and compare, it seemed like stainless steel, though not bright or shiny.
The ship appeared to be about 35 feet thick and well over 100 feet in diameter.
When we got into the ship, we entered into a room about 12 by 16 feet, with a close fitting door.
On the farther end, indirect lighting near the ceiling and nice upholstered benches around the sides.
Okay.
Indirect lighting is interesting.
Once again, we hear this time and time again, even from recently we looked at the Ilkley Moore encounter, and again, was this soft light emanating from inside the craft, something we hear about so much.
They've got what seems to me, by the way, as someone who films, I use lighting like that light you see back there, the light.
The soft light that's hitting my face right now is a soft box that's sitting here.
Sorry to break the fourth wall for any of you at home, but I'm a big fan of lighting.
I've got all these little lights everywhere that add to this atmosphere.
I feel from everything that I've heard in UFO lore that it would be a perfect environment to film a video in, in one of these crafts.
I feel like these guys are just waiting for someone like me to show up and be like, all right.
You know, you sit here, lighting's good.
Like they got the perfect lighting for a podcast in these things.
So just saying, throwing it out there once again.
Nordic beings, if you're watching, you know, I'll pack very lightly.
I'll bring a camera and a mic.
You guys handle lighting.
We'll get it done.
All right.
There was an older man in the room, plainly dressed and with white hair.
It was then that I noticed that the younger man also had white hair.
Somehow I believe they knew who I was, but they did not introduce themselves.
Perhaps if they had, I may have been a bit upset.
Wow.
So that feeling of familiarity already established.
Interesting.
The younger man asked me what I would be interested in.
So first I asked, Why they wanted this particular water.
He said the water is good, as if they had gotten the same before and it was convenient.
After we had entered the ship, I had noticed that the sound I heard outside was hardly noticeable, except what came up the stairwell.
So I asked him what caused the noise or humming.
He said this would be a bit complicated, but he would try to explain so I could understand.
He said, As you notice, we are floating above the ground.
And though the ground slopes, the ship is level.
There are in the outside rim of the ship two flywheels, one turning one way, and the other the opposite direction.
He explained that this gives the ship its own gravitation, or rather, overcomes the gravitational pull of Earth, other planets, or the Sun or stars.
And though this pull is light, we use this gravitational pull of the stars and planets to ride on.
Oh, that would blow my mind.
The flywheels turning oppositely is really interesting when you think about cases like even what was his name from Coral Castle?
Edward Leeds Skullman using magnetic flywheels to essentially lift boulders that weighed tons.
Although he was only five foot tall, you know, so the flywheel stuff is really interesting.
But again, you know, the flywheel might have been popular back then.
And so maybe that was just a way that they could communicate to this man what their technology was.
Maybe it's not a flywheel at all.
While we had been talking, a light had come on, apparently signaling that the water had been taken care of.
When I felt it was time for me to leave, I mentioned this.
He asked me if I would be interested in going with them.
I said that I had thought it would be interesting to go with them, but it would inconvenience too many people.
Later, I wondered why I had said that.
God, Udo.
That does beg an interesting question.
Maybe something you guys could answer in the comments.
If given the opportunity, would you have gone with them?
Now, obviously, my follow up question would be Are we coming back?
Can we come back?
Will it be the same day and time?
Can we just go and have a quick rip across the galaxy and then come right back here?
Because if so, sign me up.
But if the option was to leave this earth and never come back, would you do it?
I expect most of you would say no due to family and friends.
But is there a percentage of you out there that would do this?
Let me know in the comments.
I'd be interested to read that.
Also, I know I'm stopping a lot, but I'm very, I'm, this is like a, this is like a succulent meal I'm taking my time with.
We're appreciating the ingestion of information here.
And if you're here for it, you're here for it.
If you're not, so sorry.
There's a you can double click the fast forward button.
The two tubes that came down to suck the water, presumably to suck the water or to, you know, whatever that was, that comes up.
And that's the connection I was going to make.
And that's what we're going to be reading about a little bit later.
Because it's very similar.
And this ties into the technology, proposed technology that also, you know, Lacerda mentioned.
So there's so many neurons being connected right now in my brain, but I digress.
As I started to leave, they suggested that I tell no one, as no one would believe me at that time.
But in years to come, I could tell about this experience.
When I walked away from the ship, they raised the stairway.
And when I got a couple hundred feet away from the ship, I turned around.
A number of portholes had opened up.
And though I could see no one, I felt sure they saw me.
Anyway, I waved at them.
The ship then rose straight up.
Then, while circling slightly, it continued going straight, in a very short while, it was completely out of sight.
As I didn't have a watch, I did not know how long I had been with them.
It was around noon, so it must have been around two hours from the time I first saw the ship.
This whole experience was so overwhelming that I did not go back to work.
I kept going over in my mind all that had happened.
I went back to where the stairway had been, and though it hadn't gone into the soil, the grass was crushed down.
I wondered at the time why I hadn't accepted the invitation to go with them, but instead had said that it would inconvenience too many people.
I then recollected an incident which happened a few years before I came to this district.
A young man was staying with an old prospector, and early one morning before eating, he put on a light jacket and told the man he would be gone for a while.
When the young man did not show up all the next day or the next, The old prospector notified the sheriff, and he, with his deputies and about 40 CCC boys, looked all over for him, but no traces were found.
I've wondered if he might have accepted an invitation to board a ship similar to mine.
I've wondered at times if this could have all been in my imagination.
But then again, I saw the impression of the ship in the grass.
Then, over the years, a number of things have come to mind.
The explanation of how the ship moved, seemingly not affected by Earth's gravitational pull.
From what the man told me at the time, and what has come to me since, I believe I am not too far from an answer to this.
It is for this reason I am writing to you.
No doubt, with the help of some other minds, the answer will be forthcoming.
We have just about reached the stage where we need a different type of air transportation, and this is the answer.
From Sightings to Abductions00:06:42
I feel confident.
That you could put me in touch with some people who could help to this end.
Udo Ortana, West Lynn, Oregon, 1980.
Whoa.
Okay.
First of all, I get the impression that there's far more to this story and that Udo is purposely hanging on to information that he is willing to give up to these other people who might help, you know, Senator John Glenn.
Two hours is an incredibly long time to just be like, that's a couple flywheels.
Anyways, you want to come with us?
What else did they talk about?
But no missing time, apparently.
So there's a whole lot that hasn't been discussed.
And hopefully, you know, with Tim Grossnickel's conversation here, it might shed a little bit more light on what that conversation might have looked like.
Tim, who actually interviewed Udo a couple of years before his death, relates the pertinent portions of the interview as follows and offers a few more insights about the encounter that Udo apparently didn't feel were pertinent in his letter to the senator.
Tim, do you remember talking to my father about your experience while mining for gold in the remote regions of northern Idaho in the 1920s?
Yes, your father was the first person I ever told about it.
That was sometime in the late 1960s.
Why did you wait so long to share your experience?
Okay, so first of all, seems like there's a time discrepancy here.
Tim is referring to the 1920s.
Earlier, it was 1940.
Is Tim mistaken here in his recollection?
I don't know.
Udo, who would believe what I experienced?
Over the years, I read some of the other accounts in the newspapers and magazines and realized that some of the same things happened to others.
But some of them told of strange looking creatures.
I doubted them because the people on the UFO that I saw were just like us and very nice chaps.
Tim, what actually happened?
How did you know the ship had landed?
Udo, my mine shaft was nearly vertical and was over 30 feet deep in the ground.
I had built up a sluice stream nearby to wash out the gold.
I heard something like a big truck or like a jet engine, but this was before the time when I had ever heard such a sound.
I came up my shaft to look, and in the meadow was a saucer shaped craft supported on legs.
Pause.
This is different now because now we're finding a discrepancy.
According to his letter to John Glenn, he said the being told him, as you're noticing, we are floating above the ground.
And the only part of the craft that touched the ground, according to, again, the letter, was the stairwell.
But now we're being supported on legs.
So, a bit of a discrepancy here.
Not sure why.
Let's keep reading.
A man was pulling down a hose to draw water from my stream.
I do not feel the least bit of fear, and I walk toward the man.
He came and shook my hand, apologizing that they had not known I was in the area.
It was not their custom to interrupt or allow themselves to be seen.
Why not take water from the lake? I asked.
This water is more pure and free from algae, he answered, and invited me to see his ship.
Okay.
Again, another discrepancy.
Prior to this was the man being 10 or 12 feet away.
Now there's a handshake.
Again, I don't know why, but these are clear.
Clearly, discrepancies.
And I don't know if it's just because he wanted to leave these details out of his letter to the senator.
Maybe they seemed a little too fantastical, but regardless, noted.
He was such a pleasant fellow.
I asked his age.
He was quite handsome and youthful, appearing to be middle aged.
His companion on board looked slightly older, but was also in very good health.
They answered that one was about 600 years old, as we measured time.
And the other was over 900 years old.
They knew over 500 languages and were learning ours and improving upon them all the time.
Whoa.
This lines up with a lot of the sort of space brother claims from the 1950s to 70s that these beings were actually from Venus.
And again, maybe this is just what the being is telling us so that we have a reference.
But that's what they were telling us at the time.
According to these stories, that they were from Venus and that they were indeed like five to seven, eight, nine hundred years old.
I'm reminded also of a stranger at the Pentagon, the story about Valiant Thor, this other Venusian that aided Pentagon officials in warning them about the hazards of nuclear testing, et cetera.
But he as well, I believe, was a lot older.
They had come here to monitor the progression and retrogression of our societies, he explained.
They live among us from time to time.
Super interesting, very on par.
I asked if they knew of Jesus Christ and if they held the priesthood.
We would like to speak of these things, he responded, but are unable.
We cannot interfere in any way.
Okay, so there is a sort of prime directive here, if you will, where they cannot interfere, which again lines up with so many stories.
Where did you come from? I asked.
We live on a distant planet, he replied, giving its name and pointing in its direction.
The love or comfort I felt in these men's presence was remarkable.
I was invited to be examined with an X ray like machine.
Which, when passed over me, could record what impurities were in my system.
Okay, so we have another new piece of information.
This now feels more like an abduction.
Defying Earth's Gravity00:09:17
The ship was propelled with two rings or discs about three feet wide and a few inches thick, which circled the inside perimeter of the ship next to the battery slash transformer like units all around the outer wall.
Rods separated the discs, turned by motors.
Causing the disks to move in opposite directions.
A force was generated which overcame the gravitational pull of the Earth or any other planet they were on.
They focused on a distant star and used its energy to draw them through space at speeds greater than the speed of light.
My host specifically mentioned skipping upon light waves.
Okay.
There is something, now there is something incredibly relevant to reference.
Bob Lazar gives this exact description about how they were able to travel using the craft, which was some type of.
Elastic pull from in front of the craft that would draw the craft forward, falling into gravity.
There are three amplifiers.
The craft can operate on a single one, can lift off the ground.
The way in which it gets propelled are two different ways there's what they call Omicron configuration, where the craft is using one generator, or a Delta configuration, where it's utilizing all three.
Delta configuration would be for space travel.
Essentially, the craft will tilt up on its side as opposed to a science fiction movie where you see a flying saucer moving around.
The craft will tilt up on its side, focus the three gravity generators to a single point, and move through space that way.
Moving around the source of gravity is a problem to a disk because it's interference, essentially.
So, what they do is they work with that interference to their benefit.
They'll use one gravity generator to lift the craft off the ground.
And as opposed to what we're used to, for instance, a plane, once it's in the air, we envision thrust or some force coming out the back of it to push it forward.
The crafts work completely opposite of that.
What they do is, once they're hovering in the air, they'll swing the two remaining gravity generators up in front of them and create a distortion, essentially a downhill.
And the craft rolls downhill for infinity.
It's always chasing a little distortion.
Also, skipping upon the light waves does sound a lot like the gravitational waves described, gravitational wave A and B described by Bob Lazar, and sort of riding those.
Now, it's interesting because the manuscript only came out in 1980.
Prior to Bob Lazar coming out, no, it was written in 1980, but only became public in 2013.
So, but this discussion.
Was in fact later on.
So, another thing to be noted although this man's story talks about 1940, he was definitely not saying these types of things.
There's no record of any of this being said prior to Bob Lazar, although that's what this gentleman is inferring.
So, just that has to be noted.
But it is interesting nonetheless.
If we take it at face value that this actually did happen, then, you know, it definitely.
Adds some credibility and increases the conviction level of anyone out there looking into, you know, Bob Lazar's story, in my opinion.
They invited me to accompany them on their journey, but I declined.
I was driving to Portland the next day for my wedding.
I didn't want to leave them, though.
Okay.
Again, another discrepancy.
I'm sorry for interrupting, but, you know, earlier he said, I don't know why I declined.
Now he's like, I have a wedding the next day.
That's a huge reason not to leave the planet, and something you would mention.
Strange.
Upon leaving the ship and standing by a rock some distance away, I heard the same loud noise as before as the craft lifted, rotated with a sort of wobble, brought up the landing gear, and began to rise slowly.
It went faster as it rose until it disappeared at great speed.
An energy had permeated the area, and I lost all my strength for some hours.
I was unable to walk.
When my strength finally returned, I walked back to base camp.
Another detail that was left out, but incredibly important.
First of all, the craft just kind of leaving.
I mean, that's what it would look like if it could travel at great speeds without making noise.
It would just look like it's calmly leaving, but all of a sudden it's gone.
Secondly, feeling weak after.
This energy field was around you seems like some type of radiation effect, and this has definitely been noted by so many other cases that we've looked into before.
Again, is this gentleman just picking up on those things?
As he did admit to reading about some cases.
When I arrived at camp, no one else mentioned the craft.
I never mentioned it to any one of them.
A young man came up missing from his claim, however.
Nothing there had been disturbed, he was just gone without a trace.
I was never sure.
If it had anything to do with my experience or not.
Udo returned annually to the mine for a few years following the incident, but never saw the craft or its occupants after that.
He related that he always wished that he could have seen them again.
Udo was so reluctant to speak of the incident that nearly five decades had passed before he shared it with his wife, only after discussing it with his own church authorities.
Tim describes Udo as shy, pleasant, Scandinavian immigrant, a carpenter by trade.
He trusts the word of this Christian man and reports that Udo related this account to his father, a church leader, in a humble and matter of fact way, having a relationship of friendship and trust with him.
Although we can begin making a composite Perceptual sketch of the nature of UFO occupants from the tidbits of information we gain from alleged observers, it is not until we commence an analysis of abduction reports that we gain any understanding of their purpose for visiting Earth as claimed.
The quote unquote Space Brother preachings of the 1960s began to pale in comparison as we compile the data that are streaming into investigation centers in connection with abductions, and the story they tell is quite unsettling.
So, that is all the information we have on this very strange case of Udo Hortana's encounter, as talked about here by James Thompson.
Again, Warren Piastin has a symposium on this, which is available on YouTube if you guys want to listen to that as well.
But as a researcher myself and someone who is really fascinated with this topic, I accumulate so much knowledge.
From reading magazines and articles and watching videos and speaking to people.
And it just kind of is stored in the back of my mind until something like this crops up.
And then neural connections are being made.
And I want to share one of these connections in a book that I believe I've covered before.
We read through part of this book was the Antonio Villas Boas case, the first sort of documented abduction happened in.
I believe 1957 or 58.
And what really stuck out to me was the acquiring water.
What are the reasons there?
And we have multiple cases, not only the case of Joe Simonton, who, by the way, describes a similar craft, describes a similar sound.
He said a jet engine, but also the beings gave him.
A jug to fill up with water that he gave back to them.
But that isn't the only jug of water case.
There are other cases, there's another case, and I forget which one it was.
Maybe you guys can refresh my memory, but there was another case where someone else, I believe it was in a Spanish speaking country, was asked by the alien to fill up a jug of water.
The water connection doesn't stop there.
Obviously, we see time and time again these sightings over or in and around large bodies of water.
Hydrogen and Water Clues00:03:23
So, what are the reasons for these beings wanting water, right?
One can be sustenance.
Obviously, if they're thirsty.
But two, I think what everybody's thinking is fuel, hydrogen.
This seems like a really, I don't know, it seems like if you were going to make fuel and if you were an advanced civilization, why not make it with one of the most abundant things in the universe?
The sort of lightest element in existence.
I feel like that would be most optimal for fuel.
It wouldn't be helium.
It wouldn't be lithium.
It wouldn't be beryllium.
It would be the lightest one, which is hydrogen.
But something conflicting happens if we look at.
The case of Bob Lazar.
In fact, Bob Lazar's fuel is the complete opposite of hydrogen.
In fact, it's the heaviest element known to exist at the time.
Element 115, which makes it not only incredibly heavy, but also incredibly hard to come by and stabilize.
The complete opposite of hydrogen, which is abundant and easy to extract hydrogen from.
Well, I'm reminded of the conversation with a, you know, rather striking reptilian, Lacerda, where she had mentioned that in the agreement, which we can assume was the Griotta Treaty in 1952 with Eisenhower, there was this sort of agreement between this race of aliens and humans in exchange for technology in order to,
you know, keep doing what they're doing or whatever it was.
But they said the aliens tricked us.
The aliens basically gave us technology and told us it was the heaviest elements that made these things work, when in reality, it was actually the lightest.
So it was like a bluff.
It was, they gave us a red herring, and we were just dependent on this alien species to fly their craft, without which we could not even operate.
And wouldn't it be the darndest thing if, in fact, hydrogen was the answer to all of this and that we were just reverse engineering something that was pretty much impossible to get to the bottom of?
Just an interesting hypothesis, but something that supports.
The planet Earth being a giant gas station, other than a prison planet.
But what are we doing?
Where are we living here?
Doesn't sound like we're the most exotic destination in the universe or even the galaxy or even the solar system for that matter.
But gas station slash prison sounds about right.
The Hydrogen Hypothesis00:03:27
Chapter one talks about something that happened in 1914.
We're talking 36 years prior to Udo Hortana's encounter.
This is crazy.
I don't know if you guys have ever even heard of this case, but here's another one for you.
Late one August evening in 1914, a man and a woman, their three small children, and three young American men crouched behind rocks and brush along the banks of Lake Ontario at Georgia Bay, Canada, and watched a weird scene.
A strange globular craft.
Which appeared to be about 15 feet in diameter, rested on the surface of the water about 450 feet from shore.
On the square shaped substructure at the waterline were two small men like creatures who were busying themselves with a green hose.
The little men worked quickly and seemed to be having some problem with kinks in the hose by the way they were manipulating it.
This incident was related in a letter received at Avon. Headquarters in late spring 1966.
The writer, after reading several articles by Miss Lorenzen in Fate magazine, had decided to confide his experience to some who apparently would listen to such revelations with a sympathetic ear.
The sighting proved to compare favorably in detail with another similar incident which took place in 1950, and was the first in a long line of incidents involving the unidentified flying objects and their bizarre occupants.
Until 1966, when the mystifying case of Mr. and Mrs. Barney Hill and their purported encounter with strange beings in an equally strange craft in the White Mountains of New Hampshire, 1961, took the public's fancy via Look Magazine, the occupants of the UFOs had little, if any, status.
On the one hand, UFO researchers had been confronted with the religious machinations of Contactee Cult, which claimed communication and contact with friendly Space Brothers, not unlike angels in their apparent intentions and appearance.
On the other, There were the often too frequent accounts of unexplainable hairy bipeds, small humanoids with oversized heads, and nearly average human sized man like beings about five foot tall.
Some researchers with reservations decided that all reports should be studied, providing a craft was involved, whether occupants were involved or not.
Others, emulating the establishment, quote unquote, which they often berated for its irreticence in facing the issue, rationalized that the second category, or Little men was at best a hallucination or more probably the product of an overactive imagination of hoaxers.
Okay.
Not unlike what we're dealing with today.
But shortly after receiving the letter from the informant about the 1914 affair, we decided that a close scrutiny of the writer would be in order, and a qualified member of APRO in the San Francisco area was asked to interview the man who had reported the incident.
William J. Keel is, at this time, a pensioner, 68 years old, lives quite comfortably in a flat in San Francisco.
His background is rich in the lore of the days when outdoor adventure was still possible.
Interviewing the Witness00:14:30
During the summer of 1914, Keel had been working on a canal, and when the job ended, he decided to take a Lake Ontario boat and look for another job.
He was 16 years old.
During the journey, the boat developed trouble and sank.
Some of the passengers drowned, and young Keel had to swim for his life but made it to shore on the Canadian side.
His meager savings had been pinned into the pocket of his shirt but were lost during the swim, so he was without money or employment.
Two other young men.
A college student and a machinist, about 25, both from Boston, had survived the boat accident with him.
The two older men had planned to bum their way by freight to the west coast of Vancouver and then to San Francisco Exposition of 1915.
They allowed young Keel to tag along with them, so the trio set out for a hobo jungle they had heard about at Georgia Bay.
This is like straight up Roger Miller, you know, train car hopping, early 1900s living.
Kind of cool.
It was late August.
Canada, being a part of the British Empire, had just declared war on Germany.
And when the three men arrived at the railroad yards, they found it teeming with Northwest Royal Mounted Police and an assortment of other police officers, apparently on the hunt for German saboteurs.
In the process, any luckless individual with no excuse for being in the vicinity was picked up.
After asking a few careful questions, the three found that if they could get a few miles west of town, They could probably hop a freight without interference, and so they set trying to get that far.
At this juncture, they encountered a French Canadian couple with three small children who wanted to take a large rowboat eight miles west along the North Lakeshore to inspect a mining claim, and who didn't mind giving aid to fellow travelers.
A lot of mining going on in today's episode.
At nearly the point where the Canadian couple had planned to stop, the boat developed a serious leak, and the party put in a small spit where the father could work on the boat and the party could spend the night on the beach.
The boat was pulled in, turned over to dry out, and the whole group moved inland over a small cliff and began gathering firewood.
Okay, so the boat sank, or the boat was leaking, they pulled over, they're by the water overlooking this, you know, great Canadian lake.
And at about 5 p.m., one of the children spotted a deer at the water line staring out over the lake, apparently unaware of the humans nearby.
When the girl glanced in the direction the deer was looking, she saw an unusual craft resting on the water.
She called her mother, who, when she saw it, called her husband and the three young Americans.
Keel says the air was very still.
The water was unruffled, and the craft sat motionless in the water about 450 feet from shore.
Its shape was that of a globe, except that it was slightly flattened on top and had some sort of a square substructure around the bottom.
So, like some type of square platform that came down from under it, which we've seen, by the way.
This is 1914.
This is crazy.
Two quote unquote little fellows were on this deck like substructure and appeared to be busy with a hose, which looked to be about two and a half inches in diameter.
The hose was green, and on the end of it was a round object.
When Keel first noticed the little men, they were working vigorously with the lower part of the hose, the other end of which came out of the globular structure above their heads.
Their motions indicated that they were taking the kinks out of the lower part or untangling it in some way.
Questions later put to Mr. Keel about the small men he observed yielded the following information.
They appeared to be four feet tall or under, or dressed in tight fitting suits which revealed their human shapes and which appeared iridescent, for they were green or purple as they moved about in the late afternoon sunlight.
The term iridescent is applied here, for it best describes the color involved.
Each of the men wore a box shaped or square yellow headpiece.
While the little men were concerning themselves with the hose, which appeared to be controlled by something in the upper part of the globular structure, Three pipes or straight objects came out of the top of the craft, along with the heads and shoulders of three other small creatures.
These three began doing something to the pipe like protuberances.
Keel could not discern what the three were doing, but noted that while they, like the other three, were wearing square yellow headgear, their clothing, what could be seen, was khaki colored.
He also noted that the size of the heads was large in comparison to the diminutive bodies.
Keel described the bodies as skinny.
When the trio of little men on top of the craft finished their task with the pipes, they turned and seemed to look very piercingly at the deer which was watching them in front of the beach.
The deer turned and ran back into the woods.
They seemed not to notice their human audience, as far as Keel was able to tell.
The three topside men then disappeared into the craft and the pipes went down in the same manner.
At this point, the creatures on the substructure had gotten the hose in through a square hatch above them.
And about midpoint of the craft itself, and one started to get into the hatch.
Kiel could see into the hatch and noted what seemed to him to be tiles set in the opposite wall, which were bright green in color.
Bright green tiles, you know, to him in 1914, might be like some type of LED light or maybe even like a computer screen or something.
I don't know.
Just as the first little man got into the hatch, the craft began to lift off the water.
Water streamed from the bottom of the craft.
And the remaining little man clung desperately to the chrome like ring, which encircled the globular substructure.
The craft lifted straight up to an altitude of about 15 feet, and Keel could see the underside, which looked like a lattice work of square metal, grain color like the rest of the craft, and which shed water.
Now, this again happens time and time again in a lot of sightings these craft lifting up and like water pouring out of these crafts.
Then the whole globe tipped back at a sharp angle.
And shot off into the sky at an angle of about 30 to 45 degrees.
It made no sound at any time, which Keel could distinguish.
And the last that William Keel saw of the craft, the little man who had been left clinging to the rail around the middle of the globe was still holding on.
Keel says he often wonders what happened to him.
As do I, William, as do I.
I mean, so many awesome things here.
The craft tilting and zooming off without a sound is obviously, you know, not as rare as one might think.
APRO's investigator asked Mr. Keel what was said about the incident by his companions, and Keel replied that they were all startled at the incident, but talked little about it afterward.
For one thing, there was a language problem.
The Canadian family spoke only French, and the young college student was the only interpreter.
And his French was apparently not the best.
The machine was watched by the group of eight people for about 10 minutes, affording everyone a good look.
The most startling thing about this particular incident is its resemblance to another sighting, which also took place in Canada July 2, 1950.
A senior executive of Steep Rock Iron Mines and his wife were on an outing in Sawtooth Bay on Steep Rock Lake in Ontario.
They had beached their boat on a sandy shore.
Where there was plenty of shade, and had some tea and sandwiches and sat back to relax.
Suddenly, a shockwave was felt.
The air seemed to vibrate.
The man thought it might have been a dynamite blast, but there had been no sound.
The executive decided to investigate and climbed up on a rock outcropping which protruded above the undergrowth.
Looking through a cleft in the rock, the observer saw a large, shiny, apparently metallic object resting on the water about a quarter mile down the shoreline.
He quickly scrambled back to his wife and brought her back to the niche so that she could see the object too.
It looked like two huge saucers stuck together, lip to lip.
What appeared to be round, black edged portholes were arranged around the circumference where the saucers joined.
Again, Joe Simonton, Udo Warteina, we're talking about the same type of portholes.
On top of the bizarre craft, what appeared to be hatch covers were open, and the observers saw about 10.
Small figures Small figures moving about, protruding from the top to about eight feet above the deck, was a hoop shaped object which rotated slowly.
When it appeared to be pointed at a location directly opposite to two observers, it would stop, and so would the little men.
The man and his wife got the distinct impression that the concentration was on their location, and they ducked behind the rock.
The hoop like contraption seemed to be operated by one of the figures.
On a prominence directly below it.
This being had a bright red apparatus on its head, while the rest of the figures on the superstructure were wearing blue headpieces of some type.
What's interesting here, folks, that protrusion, that disc like protrusion, also sounds like what was described by Antonio Villas Boas and his craft.
The executive estimated that the size of the object was approximately 48 feet in diameter, using the size of the two trees on the opposite shore as points of reference, and that the little man, who had shiny metal of some kind on their chests and dark clothing, were between three and three and a half and four feet tall.
No features were noticed, of course, because of the distance of about 1,200 feet.
The two observers agreed that the tiny figures moved like automatons, did not turn as normal beings do, but changed direction laboriously.
As though it was a difficult task, and turned their feet before turning their bodies.
Almost drone like or robotic like.
Weird.
Two bright green hoses extended into the water.
And during the sighting, a distinct humming sound could be heard.
The witnesses thought that water was being taken into the ship with one hose and that it was being discharged back into the lake through the other.
Whoa.
Like they were extracting the hydrogen, maybe.
That's insane.
Each time the rotating hoop pointed in their direction, the man and wife would duck behind their rock shelter.
The last time they ducked, when they stuck their heads out again, about 20 seconds later, the figures in the hoop were missing, and the object began to rise from the surface of the water where it had rested.
The water was tinted red with a slight gold cast.
This is interesting.
So there's like a.
A reflection, perhaps, of the glow of the craft in the water.
The object was estimated to be about 15 feet thick at its highest point and about 12 feet thick at the edge.
There was a rush of wind as it took off, about a 45 degree angle, whereupon it vanished quickly into the sky.
In the keel sighting, as in the steep rock case, a vivid green hose is involved.
The craft is resting on water, and the occupants of the craft seem sensitive to the presence of people or animals.
Deer are involved in both cases also.
Inasmuch as the steep rock case was published, In the Steep Rock Echo, house organ of the mining company, and later in Fate magazine, from which so many latter day UFO experts glean so much of their material, the skeptic is tempted to assume that perhaps Keel read the Fate account and got the idea for his story, but this does not satisfy, however, for in those instances in which plagiarism of ideas is involved,
the plagiarist generally adheres as closely to the original story as possible in order to give an affair of authenticity to its tale.
Keel was questioned closely by APRO's investigator.
And by letters from APRO's office, but was firm in his assertion that the entities were not mechanical men, but rather were living beings because of the way they moved about.
There can be no doubt that the craft and keel story differs greatly from that in the Steep Rock case.
This is not surprising.
However, for even if they did have the same origin, it is not possible for the aircraft design to change radically in 36 years.
It's a good point.
You know, do extraterrestrials also see technological advances as often as we do?
And why not?
There is an explanation for the movements of the steep rock creatures, which is logical and even sensible.
If the figures on the craft were living beings equipped with, for instance, magnetic shoes, they could give the appearance of moving about clumsily with great effort.
And if we extend our theorizing just a bit further, we come up with the possibility that having lost one of the crew in a similar area during a water operation.
Better means of navigating on the possible slippery surface of the craft might be adopted.
Magnetic shoes?
Magnetic Shoes Explained00:03:20
That's hilarious.
This might be, you know, a consequence of the other alien, you know, hanging onto the side of the craft as it takes off.
They're like, hey, we lost one already.
Put these shoes on next time you go down so it won't happen again.
So funny.
And so that about wraps up those two tangentially related cases.
They're cases that relate only to.
Not in so much of the beings, but definitely the crafts not being super shiny metal, the shape of the craft, roughly, but most importantly, the hoses.
Who'd think that hoses would lead us down such a rabbit hole?
Very interesting indeed.
All right.
I'll give you my conviction level percentage on Udo Hortena.
I am pretty high conviction that something did happen to him.
And by pretty high, I mean, gee, I don't even know if I would say pretty high.
I don't even know if I'm over 50%.
I might be under 50%.
And the only reason for that, you know what?
No, I'm 51% that something did happen.
And the only reason for that is because he has no reason to really, he's not publishing any books.
He's an old guy and he just shared this with like the priest at his church and like his close friends.
Like there's no seeking attention here outside of that.
Now, does that completely dismiss the fact that maybe he's just trying to impress people?
I don't know.
I don't know this guy.
But I would say, I would say it feels like something did happen.
All the other details that we hear about later on are obviously questionable because the story does change.
I would have loved to talk to this man, but alas, that's all we have to go on.
But I do find it interesting that we have this hose and then the other hoses that are mentioned by Cora Lorenzen in Flying Saucer Occupants.
I think that is really interesting.
So, again, over 50%, which is pretty high.
You know, my conviction level was definitely higher reading his first manuscript and then reading the second subsequent one.
Does seem like he's padding stuff on, but that again might just be because he didn't want to divulge too much information to the senator at the time.
Who knows?
What are your thoughts?
What's your conviction level?
Leave it below, folks.
That is it for today's read through.
I want to thank you guys for sticking through this.
I want to thank you guys for listening wherever it is you listen to these episodes on.
And don't forget if you want to see us live, You'll have at least two opportunities, one being in Montreal and one being in Austin.
Tickets are on sale now.
It's probably nothing.com.
Check it out.
Check out area52.shop.
Check out the links below.
Check out the membership.
But most importantly, take care of yourselves.
Appreciate you guys, and we'll see you on the next video.