Nelson Dellis and Chris Ramsay recount transformative Gateway Experience retreats, highlighting Nelson's missed initial week due to childcare that ultimately fueled his growth. They detail remote viewing successes like predicting horse Doorknock and matching number 1736, alongside shared visions of the St. Louis Arch and a bubble gun between participants Ignacio and Amy. The discussion covers terrifying out-of-body encounters, premonitions of Dallas Mavericks games, and collective "click outs" during Focus 15 sessions, suggesting communal downloads. Ultimately, these phenomena validate the Monroe Institute as a profound catalyst for self-discovery beyond traditional spiritual beliefs. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, Qwen/Qwen3-ForcedAligner-0.6B, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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The Gateway Experience Retreat00:08:22
Gentlemen, welcome to another episode of Debriefed.
Today, we will be talking about.
Today, first of all, I'm joined by a really good friend of mine.
You guys know him already.
This is Nelson Dellis.
Nelson and I both did the retreat for the Gateway Experience at the Monroe Institute.
And this is really our first time talking about it on camera and in real life.
Like we saved this conversation.
We held back.
Before we get into this, guys, I would encourage you to check out the Patreon for extra content, including extra episodes.
Of Debriefed, and not to mention all the full interviews, the uncut interviews from the last documentary series that we did and the previous ones before that.
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We get into fun things like movie night, QA's, and basically just have a good time there investigating the newest sort of cases that we're looking into.
So check it out.
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It goes a long way.
All right.
Without any further ado, welcome, Nelson.
What's up?
How are you doing?
What's up?
I'm good, man.
Good to see you.
Good to see you.
I feel like we're different people now.
Yeah.
That couldn't be more true.
Jesus.
Absolutely.
It's been, I mean, there's been so many, so many, so many, so many synchronicities and changes since I've gotten back, and I'm sure the same for you.
Oh, yeah.
At this point, when we're talking, I've only uploaded one episode of the sort of the gateway program to my channel, but this will be coming out after the whole thing's done.
So they'll be up to speed on everything.
Let's start with before.
Because I read an interesting article.
This is on LinkedIn, and it was the Monroe Institute, and they had an article based on the.
If you look back, and I wanted to mention this and I held back, but if you look back at the previous weeks leading up to this, how many things had to line up and how many things were preparing you for this experience?
Okay.
Yeah.
And if you look back now, can you think of any?
Yeah.
I mean,.
I think even the circumstances to which I found myself like even considering going.
I mean, I know the first time I thought, oh, it would be cool to do this with you or whatever at all, was when we were with Joe last year.
And he mentioned that we could do a course with him or at least a visit to the Institute.
I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'll probably never really have a time to do that.
Like, I don't know if it's on my radar.
I had the same feeling.
And even when you told me that you were going to do this creator week or that it was even a thing, you know, I was actually accepted because I. Threw my hat in the ring.
I was like, Yeah, I got to do it.
But I couldn't quite make it work.
Yeah.
You know, and I was kind of bummed.
I was like, I wanted to do that with Chris.
It would have been kind of like the next step in what we're doing, but it didn't work out.
But I almost told you this that I felt like it was maybe better that I did it or that I was supposed to do it on my own, you know, that it was an experience I needed to do on my own.
And so that's how that kind of played out was kind of interesting before.
Yeah.
Cause you, you'd made everything happen, but then like things prevented you from.
Yeah.
From being there.
Because initially, so the creator program that they set up was the first time they've ever let creators film the process, the Gateway program process, and that whole experience.
It's never been documented from the inside.
That's wild.
And so Paul Citarella, who works there, you know, he's been just a great person to talk with because he's one who really organized all of this and is trying to propel Monroe Institute into, you know, a new era where people are aware of this stuff.
So it's really cool.
And I reached out to Nelson.
I was like, we got to do this together.
And we both said yes.
Yeah.
We both agreed.
And then you kind of backed out last minute because you had, you know, personal family stuff.
You have a new child.
Yeah, it boiled down to childcare.
I mean, everything's so.
Yeah, you had a newborn to take care of, and it's not the time to take a retreat.
No.
No, I mean, my wife's very understanding.
So it's like, if we have the help, it's cool.
Yeah.
And I had lined up help, but it just fell through.
It fell through.
Yeah.
And then we were kind of like, one of my little ones was sick, and it was really just like.
All hands needed to be on deck.
Was there something with flights, too?
Oh, yeah.
Well, no, well, that was something else.
Okay.
But that I tried to organize after, and a flight got canceled, but not to do with the actual thing.
But yeah, even just like where I was at, I felt like.
Like mentally, you mean?
Mentally, I don't think I could have gone that week.
I was just so backed up with work and so many things on my mind.
Like, I was not ready for that.
So, with the extra two, three weeks that I had before I went, it was.
I don't know.
It just was, I had a different vibe.
It was like more the right time.
And I think it worked out.
I think so too, man.
You know, when I went there, it was interesting because there were 13 of us, there were supposed to be 19 of us.
So you obviously weren't the only one who backed out last second.
There was really supposed to be 19 of us.
And, but we also felt that like that was the perfect amount of people for what we went through.
And it just had to work out like that.
And I feel like if you were there with me, I had such a profound like spiritual experience.
And I never thought I'd hear myself saying this, but it was a breakthrough.
And if you were there with me, I don't know if it would have happened the same way because you and I both share a similar skepticism towards this topic.
And perhaps if we both were in that experience together, we might have just, I don't know.
Isolated?
Yeah, we might have isolated.
Exactly.
We might have been afraid to show maybe a more vulnerable side of us.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
Even though we're close friends, like it's still, we might have just not been as vulnerable for fear of something.
And yeah, so I think you're right.
I think it had to happen the way it did.
Yeah.
You know, that being said, I had a few weeks leading up to it as well that like I get these signs only thinking back.
And it happened.
Like there's one thing, and, you know, a lot of people might not know this, but, you know, we're in the process of literally downsizing the company and like letting go a whole bunch of people here.
And it's been, This all happened before, you know, because I'm just feeling overwhelmed.
I was at a breaking point in my career and in my personal mental state where I just took on too much and I was wearing myself thin and it wasn't fun anymore.
And I was getting to this point where I've been before where I burn out.
And that was all leading up to this.
And then I remember standing in line at the supermarket here.
And this is where it really hit me when I look back on it.
There was a lady in front of me.
She was paying for her groceries.
And there were like two ladies behind me who were waiting.
And the lady was paying her card wouldn't work.
And then she's trying another card and it wouldn't work.
And another one, and she's paying cash.
And this whole ordeal lasted like four minutes, which is a long time standing in line holding items.
Sure.
Four minutes is a long time.
The ladies behind me, I felt their energy and I felt I heard them kind of like roll their eyes, annoyed, right?
And this lady in front of me was so stressed because she was feeling that energy from them and she was trying to, and it wasn't her fault the car was going through.
Lady at the cash register, she was like, ugh, come on, you know?
And the thought occurred to me instantly.
Like, we're all just trying to get to the next thing, Got to hurry up and get to the next thing.
And then I realized in that moment, holy shit, this is the thing.
This is the thing.
Betting on Intuitive Knowing00:06:34
This is what I've been trying to get to.
Holy fuck.
And it just dawned on me.
And I was there holding these items.
And I remember being in this moment, listening to the stupid pop music that was playing on the radio and feeling like I could stay in this moment for hours.
I was so happy to be in line at that moment and enjoying it.
It was like I was in the present moment.
For the first time in a long time.
And it really started shifting everything for me after that.
And it's after that that I sort of made the decision, you know, at the company and that I've been drawing back from posting content on the main channel and just kind of taking care of my personal mental health.
And then the retreat, which, you know, we'll get into.
Yeah.
No, there's been a lot of synchronicities happening to me in the last.
Month and a half.
I mean, I always, since getting into remote viewing and stuff like that, I've paid more attention, but I feel like they've ramped up like, whoa.
Oh, yeah.
In the last month and a half.
I briefly told you, but the week before I was supposed to go was the opening to the Belmont races at the racetrack in my little town that I live.
Yes.
And I do this for fun sometimes.
I'll just predict the winner of a race.
With remote viewing.
With remote viewing, yeah.
Like a kind of a shorthand version of it, but I win 25% of the time.
I get it right 25%.
And what are the odds of you winning 25% of the time?
I think if you roughly calculate it, it's probably like 10%.
So you should be winning 10% of the time?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Through guess?
If you just guess randomly.
Because there's 10 horses?
More or less.
Sometimes horses get scratched.
Some have long, there's more horses in a race, whatever.
But on average, I'd say it was about 10 horses.
And you're winning a quarter of the time, which is way more, actually.
Yeah.
And so, That day was the Belmont.
There's many races that day, but the Belmont is the big one with the biggest stakes and all that stuff and the big horses.
The hottest horses.
Yeah, yeah.
So I hadn't won that day, but that race, I actually had predicted it with my little horse group that we have going on.
You have a group of horses?
Well, people who make predictions on these random horse races.
And we don't bet.
We just kind of like gather data and see if it aligns.
We're all doing the same kind of remote viewing thing.
That's awesome.
And I predicted Black, I think it was, which happened to be.
This horse named Doorknock.
Underdog.
Yeah, nobody was even talking about it.
Because before, you predict a lot of, oftentimes, because you don't know who the colors are associated to prior.
Exactly.
Because then you'll be front loaded.
Yeah, I know nothing about horses.
I don't even know anything about horse racing, really.
So they all have colors, and those colors aren't the same colors every race.
No, no.
They're switched on horses.
So there's no way that you can say that green is always the good horse.
Right, yeah.
So people don't understand this.
It's completely random.
And to not get front loaded.
You know the colors of what's going to be in the race, but you don't know which horses those are associated to.
But sometimes and oftentimes, you end up choosing the color that's the favorite.
Yep.
Yeah.
Most of the time.
Well, because they're great.
And then you win, and it's not so much, but it's fine.
But you still predicted that, which is really cool.
But now.
Yeah.
So then it's exciting when you see a color that is an underdog because you're like, this is right.
I've won a lot of money.
How much do you put down?
We're talking a lot of money.
I put like 10 bucks usually because I'm trying to be responsible.
Big spender.
Yeah.
And it's the fun of the Belmont, you know, put a little cash.
It's always fun.
But anyway, so I was going to make my bet and do it in cash there because it's very old timey.
And I walk across, there were 50,000 people that day.
Holy cow.
It was a very busy day.
Holy horse.
Yeah, holy horse.
And I walk across a dime, not drugs, but a coin dime.
And that's my thing in my life.
I always find dimes.
Huh.
Like in the most, and by themselves, not like a chunk of change, just a single dime along my path on a thing for me to see.
And I pick it up.
And usually when I pick it up, most of the time, and I put it like in my little jar or whatever at home, something good happens, like financially.
Like an omen.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like I get a gig or some opportunity comes up.
Yeah.
And this is wild because I already had the sense that I had guessed the right horse in the day before I told you it was black.
And I was like, yeah, I know it's going to win.
But you, yeah, the thing that differentiates this, and this is something that I felt in my remote viewing sessions as well, is it isn't a guess.
Right.
It is a knowing.
And it's not a belief.
It's not a fake it till you make it a confidence thing.
It is a knowing.
Yeah.
Like when you just know, you're like, oh, I know.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's hard to explain that, that it isn't just some guess.
But when you know, you know, right?
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
And so I saw that coin and I was like, I'm on my way to make this bet for this thing that I know.
This is wild.
Nobody's picked this up.
Like, it's clearly in the path.
Anyways, I go and make my bet and I'm like, oh, I have 10 bucks.
Like, I know the horse.
I know the winner.
Like, let me put more.
I end up putting 50.
And I even felt bad for a second, but I remember thinking, like, why do you feel bad when you know you've won the money?
And I know it's very irresponsible to think like that.
And that's why I don't really bet a lot.
Yeah.
But it was an interesting feeling to be so certain about something.
And sure enough, the horse won.
And it was a crazy race because he was a super underdog and he was first out of the gates.
And usually the first horse, you're like, oh, Jesus.
Loses gas.
He's never going to.
That's like a terrible sign in horse racing.
But he stuck it out.
It was wild.
And I've never heard.
I almost heard a pin drop and all those 50,000 people watching because.
They couldn't believe it.
Well, because nobody fucking bet on that horse.
So they were all like.
How many people do you think actually bet on that horse?
I don't know.
There's got to be a handful.
I'm sure.
Yeah.
The owners, at least, right?
Yeah.
So, anyway, they won a good chunk and then.
Wait, so it was the odds were, you told me, 17 to 1.
I think it was even more.
I think it went up.
I think it might have been like 25 to 1.
25 to 1.
You bet how much?
$50?
Yeah.
So you made like over a grand.
Yeah, yeah.
Over a grand with a $50 bet is wild.
I was like, damn, I should have put like my life savings.
Obviously, you should have.
But obviously, that would have been irresponsible.
Yeah.
But you still had the knowing that 10 wasn't enough.
There was something, there was an omen with a dime.
Yeah.
Letting Go at Mountain Camp00:09:25
And there was like some instinctive, intuitive knowing that, yeah, I have to put more because I know the answer to this.
And you did that and you followed through on that and you believed yourself.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I'm not saying go out there to Hollywood or go out there to Vegas and start betting your life savings, but, you know, this is something that has come up for me a lot lately.
If you get that feeling and that knowing, you must pursue it because you will be, the universe kind of will reward you.
Yeah.
And it's funny because that feeling was kind of a new, Feel, I've kind of had some of that for when I do remote viewing, but this felt stronger.
And it's funny because in the retreat, that like I'm sure as you're alluding to now, is it like that knowing feeling was a common theme in a lot of the experiences I was having?
So that was maybe like a little teaser, you know, before that happened.
So very crazy.
So, I mean, yeah, very crazy indeed.
And just another, just another thing that overlaps and that elevates this whole experience into.
Into reality.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Right.
Okay.
Monroe Institute.
So I had my experience, and then two weeks later, you had yours.
Yep.
So, you know, we're roughly in the same timeframe.
Now, I had the upper camp.
Yes.
You had the lower camp.
The mountain retreat.
The mountain retreat.
Yeah, I had the mountain retreat.
You had the lower one.
Yeah.
So that's something I want to get into, too, because my experience was a bit different than yours, in terms of what that felt like and looked like.
We had this like cabin that we'd go to, and like you saw the videos.
A little more quaint.
We went down to the lower camp, but that, how is it?
It looked pretty cool.
Yeah, it's what I know.
We did go up to yours and take a look around, and I had seen some of your pictures and stuff.
So I was like, oh, that looks cool.
But I remember thinking, I kind of like mine better.
Same.
We had a pool.
I would have loved it.
We kept asking to use it, and they were like, no, you can't use it.
I was like, what are you talking about?
We swam in it every day.
It's crazy.
Every single day we jumped in the pool.
It was very hot.
You had a lake, though, not too far away.
That's true.
And a couple of people went in the lake.
I'm not a lake swimming person, but we did have that.
But it was, you know, I think because you have an amazing experience there and the people there, like you make it your own, you know?
So I understand why.
I'm sure if I'd been set up there, I would have loved it more than the other.
But it was cool.
It felt a bit more spacious.
Like we had the bigger open field with the crystal in the middle of the field.
It was so cool.
Yeah, yeah.
It was nice.
And you had the vistas of the mountain.
I don't know how much visibility you had.
Yeah, not much.
There's like trees.
Yeah.
And yeah, it was.
When I got there, I was kind of like, oh dear, this is a bit stuffy and old time.
And I don't know if I can stay here a week.
And then I was put in a room with two other dudes.
It was three of us in a room.
I was like, wherever they put me, they put me in a closet.
But it ended up being so cozy and perfect.
Perfect.
Yeah.
How restful.
Were those nights in the check units?
I was so relaxed.
One of the things I said to myself is, if I don't get anything out of this, I'm going to be the most relaxed version of myself.
That's exactly what I said to myself on camera.
Oh, okay.
I said the exact same.
I was like, if nothing else, I need this.
I need to relax.
I don't have to cook for my kids.
I don't have to clean up after my kids.
I don't have to hear my kids.
I miss them.
But it's just me and my thoughts.
And I can sleep through all these exercises if I want.
And worrying will do you no good in that situation.
Also, the food was great.
Right.
Yeah.
Three meals a day, cooked fresh every day.
Delicious.
Yeah.
And I'm picky, you know, and it was, they had little options here and a salad bar and snacks whenever you wanted them.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
We had, so we have this place called the Fox's Den or Fox Den or whatever.
Yeah.
And that's kind of where we got together before and maybe because, so the way it played out, like we talked about it in the video, but you get up early on, you get the music, you get the The tuning frequency, and then we have morning yoga or whatever, breakfast, and then you'd start your introduction to whatever it is you were learning.
And then probably do about three sessions before lunch with a debrief in between those, have lunch, and then we'd have a break from one to four, which was really nice.
And especially for creators on our end, gave us time to really film stuff and interview people.
And then at four, we'd have another session, one or two meditations again with debriefs.
Then we'd have dinner.
And then after dinner, we'd have like an event.
So either someone would come to talk or we'd watch a movie.
And that would go on till about nine, 10 o'clock.
And then a lot of people would taper off.
But us, I mean, my group, every single night in the Fox's Den, I would host about five people.
And some of them stayed and some of them interchanged.
Uh, and I would perform magic till about two in the morning, holy every night.
Um, so there would be, but it wasn't just me performing magic, it was also like, uh, we did this thing called the Cube in the Desert experiment, you know, this.
Um, so I did this to everybody eventually, like because people would, you know, sort of chatter about it during the day.
It's like, Oh, did you get to see the magic show last night?
Oh, did you get to try this Cube in the Desert thing?
And so people would come in the evening, and it was really such an awesome thing to do with people to connect with them on a personal, deeper level.
Um, so we'd end up doing that in that in the Fox Den, and yeah, there were snacks and everything.
You know, and but the thing is, I've never felt more rested in my life, even sleeping four hours a night.
Yeah, because we were meditating for six hours a day.
So I'd click out every now and then, but yeah, and I don't meditate.
I've never meditated, I've tried, and I'm just like, I got better things to do.
You know, I always say when I memorize, that's my meditation because it's like my focus on this one thing.
And sure, but uh, to be like with yourself like that, I don't do that.
Yeah, man.
So That was new to me.
And you know, the interesting thing to me is all the meditation I've ever been told how to do is like focus on your breath, you know, like try not to think about anything.
And when you stray, go back to the breath, right?
And sit this way and that way and breathe, whatever.
But there was no instruction about that.
And it really wasn't about that.
It felt like kind of, I like to do this as I think about my memories and just kind of like live in them and visualize the things.
And it was like a lot of that, just different exercises related to visualization.
So it was interesting to me to hear about meditating, but you were like free to actually think freely.
Yeah.
Not be so.
They didn't discourage you.
Like it wasn't so procedural where, because meditation sounds boring to me.
Like when I heard about it the first time, I was like, This, yeah, I don't know.
Okay, I guess I'll do it for 10 minutes.
I got other shit to do.
You know, but you're right.
There was, you know, they would encourage a thought.
Like if a thought comes in and you kind of can't let it go, well, maybe you're supposed to sit with it.
Yeah.
And maybe you're supposed to figure out why you're getting this thought and then move on.
And like, so yeah, there was this sort of like free flowing energy to these meditations that felt more natural and less forced.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And every, I remember more so at the beginning.
Every little thought that I'd have, I'd be like, What does this mean?
Why is it being shown to me?
I'd like, I got to remember this.
And then I'd never remember it because I'd be like half asleep or in between sleep.
And then people would say, Well, if you're supposed to remember it, it will come back, you know?
And I was like, Okay, that's kind of freeing.
Less pressure to like remember everything.
If it was important enough as a message, then it will stick.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Being left brained, majorly, I mean, a majority of the time, I'm.
I find myself, I find I have a healthy balance, but for a lot of this stuff, I'm usually left brained.
I'm usually very analytical and sort of like, how can I figure this out?
What is like you?
Like, what does this mean?
What is this?
Uh huh.
Am I supposed to be feeling this right now?
What am I feeling?
Why am I feeling this?
Is this normal?
And as the week progressed for me, I slowly let go.
And a lot of that happened in the debriefs where I would hear people and their experiences.
And then in comparison to mine, and I was just kind of like, oh, this, I guess you're just supposed to like, Go with it and let go.
And that was the real big lesson that I learned for the meditations to work is the notion of letting go and for out of body to work as well.
Is you have to just completely release physically, mentally, emotionally.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like I felt like you.
I was, it started up all, it started all up here and slowly it went to here.
Like it was less about my mind and more my heart.
Confirming the Out of Body State00:16:23
Yeah.
As cheesy as that sound.
Yeah.
But there's something to it.
You know, where it was more feeling and an immersive opening than like an analytical, like problem to solve.
Yeah, right.
Every time.
The first experience that I had with this, that, you know, I guess I'll run through my first out of body because I really didn't talk about it in the video much.
I dramatized it for the video and made a, you know, sort of a skit out of it, but that actually happened to me.
So I had a question about that because you said before you tell it again, but that was in October.
This is October last year.
Okay.
Because remember, I came here to, Wes was here, we had dinner.
You told me about an OBE, and I swear that it was like something you were recalling from a long time ago.
Oh, no, it had just happened.
Oh, shoot.
Okay.
Yeah, it had just happened.
And looking back at the timeline was really interesting because it was just when we got back from seeing Joe.
Yes.
When you think about it.
Yeah.
Right.
So it was amidst all of this OBE talk, I had one.
I didn't even realize it at the time.
Didn't you have two, though?
I had two back to back.
Yeah.
Oh, they were back to back.
Back to back, two nights in a row.
Wow.
Okay.
The way this happened is I had stopped smoking weed for like a week because at this point I had quit vaping.
Got it.
I was vaping all the time and I was like, ugh, I gotta get rid of this stuff.
So to quit vaping, I also stopped smoking weed because any sort of inhalation vice would just trigger and I would wanna vape again.
So I just quit everything.
And about a week later, I didn't know this, but there's something called REM rebound.
And when REM rebound happens, it's basically this floodgate of REM sleep that you naturally seek, that your mind naturally needs.
And it builds up.
So it stores itself.
And then when you have this REM rebound or this release after all these inhibitors are gone, it comes pouring out.
I didn't know this.
But at the same time, I was having a hard time sleeping because I wasn't doing my nightly weed smoking routine where I'd fall asleep.
And so I was like, maybe I'll take a melatonin.
So I took a little melatonin.
And in Canada, and this is something I found out in the comments, it's not legal everywhere.
I guess you have to have it prescribed in some places.
Here it's over the counter.
So I popped a melatonin.
Melatonin is also known to increase it.
Helps something get secreted from the pineal gland and it helps increase REM sleep, basically.
Again, so I'm just like creating the perfect storm right now.
I go to sleep.
In my sleep, I have.
Now, it's to be noted, as a child, I've always had vivid dreams, and a lot of times they'd turn lucid since I was a kid.
I'd have lucid dreams, I'd be able to control my dreams.
And a lot of times, This is weird to say, but a lot of times the way that those dreams would be controlled is through like a sex dream.
I would get aroused in my dream and then I would say, Oh, this is a dream.
I can just have sex here.
And it would turn lucid to me 13 year olds.
Exactly.
It still happens to me as an adult, right?
But not so much when I was smoking weed.
And so now I'm having all these strange dreams throughout this week.
After about day three, day four, I'm starting to have vivid dreams and they're starting to turn lucid.
Now, at the last day, like day seven, day seven or day eight, I'm having this nightmare.
I do not recall the nightmare, but it wasn't something, it wasn't like a catastrophe and it wasn't a monster or anything like that.
It was more like a figure that I was afraid of.
And I couldn't, it was just like, gave me a real fright.
And I was like, no, I don't want to be here.
Don't want to be here.
And I forced my eyes to open.
Like I could feel me forcing my eyes to open.
And this is a trick when I was a kid to get out of dreams.
I was like, ugh, and open them up.
Now I'm in my bed.
I'm in my bed.
The room is gray and fuzzy.
Yeah.
I'm vibrating like there's a hum, there's like a, and I feel my whole body humming like a tuning fork.
And I hear this loud whoosh right at the beginning.
And everything's like grainy, like high, like ISO on a camera, like when you ramp up the ISO.
And I'm in my bed and I have this feeling, much like I do in lucid dreams, where I can just fly.
And I haven't done that since a long time.
I haven't flown in a very long time, my dreams.
I used to fly all the time.
But I'm in my bed, right?
So I'm like, huh, I have the same feeling.
So I just start lifting off.
And I'm lifting, I'm lifting, I'm lifting.
I'm maybe three feet out of my bed.
When it dawns on me that I'm flying in my fucking room and the terror that I felt, you have to understand.
People are like, why were you afraid?
Imagine you started flying right now, right now, not when you're asleep, right now.
So the important thing is that it's a difference between, like, you know, you're not going to be in a nightmare.
I woke up from a nightmare to be in my bed.
Now, I know that there's the whole inception thing where you wake up into a dream, into a dream.
This did not feel like that.
It did not feel like that to this day.
I, you know, anyways, I, I get scared.
I get scared.
I'm like, no, no, no.
And I slam back into my body.
I then come to.
I'm in my room.
It's darker now.
I can't see anything.
Very strange.
I could see a second ago.
I can't see anything now.
Crazy.
I get up.
My heart's beating, pounding.
I drink some water.
I was very shaken.
I was like, what a wild dream.
But I'm so affected by it because I'm like, normally when you come out of a dream, you're like, oh, that was just a dream.
This didn't feel like that.
I was like, God, that's so strange.
So the next day, I'm like, let me try this again.
See if this goes anywhere.
So I talked to some people about it.
I was like, it's really fucking bizarre happening to me.
They're like, it goes to the dream.
Popped another melatonin, went to bed, woke up, same thing.
I was like, yeah, okay.
Familiar, gray buzzing, everything.
And I'm like, here we go again.
I'm in my bed.
This time I lift out and I'm going up.
I'm about four feet above my bed.
Easier to get there?
Same.
It wasn't hard to lift out.
Okay.
I've never had a hard time flying in dreams.
Okay.
So I lift out, I'm above the bed.
This time I turn around.
Like rotated.
Yeah, exactly.
Like turn my gaze.
Okay.
And I see me.
Yeah.
And I remember saying to myself, don't be scared.
Don't be scared this time.
We're in it.
We're doing it.
And I see me.
And oh my God, the fear, the sheer terror that grips you is paralyzing.
Imagine I'm talking to you right now.
And imagine I go, hey, Nelson, look at that.
And you look and it's just you sitting there.
Yeah.
That's how scared I was.
It was real.
This time I'm floating back to my body.
I'm like swimming back to my body.
And I remember feeling myself interfacing with my body.
Like I felt me coming into myself.
Yeah.
Like it was like, I felt this.
Like if you do this with your fingers, that's kind of what it felt like.
And I go in, but this time, my body's here, let's say.
I go here and then I go lower.
And now I'm like four inches past.
I'm like, no, And it frightened me even more.
And I get back in my body, wake up sort of like so scared because now I'm like, I didn't know you can go down.
I didn't know down was an option.
Yeah, what's there?
I knew up was an option.
What's down?
I don't want to go down.
How far can you go?
Terrified.
Terrifying, terrifying.
I start Googling this stuff, and it turns out the symptoms that I had are really shared by a lot of people from the sounds, the vibrations, everything.
I didn't know anything about out of body experience.
I didn't know that's what I had.
I couldn't make sense of it until I started really accepting the fact that, oh, this is what Joe McMonagall was talking about.
This is what Ed Dames was talking about.
And then sort of everything synchronized and fell into place to where we got to go experience that over there.
I want to ask you sorry for rambling was there a point in your retreat where anyone had a real out of body experience?
Um, I think it might have been me.
It sounded like there were more going on at yours in terms of that, and maybe people who have had experiences prior.
Right.
But nobody had had an experience prior.
Really?
From what I understood.
Wow.
Everybody, except save two or three people, had multiple experiences prior.
But, you know, maybe the curators that they curated, you know, they're more of that realm.
Yeah.
You know, our group was average.
People, you know, that all sorts of backgrounds, mostly people who were just curious, you know, about not necessarily OBEs.
Actually, I don't think anybody was there to say, hey, I want an OBE.
I think that might have been more me than anybody, really, at least to start, you know, and curiosity of just beyond the self, the physical self.
But yeah, nobody really talked about it.
They had very profound experiences.
And I said this as a trainer, I was like, I came here more with this intention of having OBEs, and that's what I thought this was all about.
But it was like a very tiny part of it in the end.
Because it was a gateway program.
And the first step of Gateway is Focus 10.
And Focus 10 is readily used for out of body.
Yeah.
It is the mind awake, body asleep.
That is the out of body state.
From there, it's expanded awareness, no time, the intergalactic highway, all that stuff.
Yeah.
But yeah, that's interesting.
But I had a few experiences.
It wasn't what I expected fully, but I did have some, I would categorize them as OBEs for sure.
So, because I know that there is, Arky told me, one of the trainers there, that they're, you know, because I was always like, oh, out of body is the way to go.
Out of body is what I want.
And he's like, out of body is fine.
But the amount of things that you can do with just projecting your consciousness or a part of your consciousness.
And he's like, that's not necessarily out of body, but it's literally a part of your consciousness is going out there.
Okay.
But you're not floating above your body.
So you're projecting a piece of your consciousness.
And so I'm wondering if that's something more, because I don't feel like you had that.
You didn't pop out.
No.
Right.
Well, so the big.
Thing that happened to me, I didn't pop out, like you said.
It probably sounds like I resonate more with what you just said, where it sounded like my consciousness was there.
And I also questioned whether it was like, did I remote view this?
Yes.
Or is it all in the same?
Yeah, or is it all the same?
But the thing with remote viewing is usually, and there's theories about this, but who knows what's real or not.
But after you do a session, you see your work after, like the feedback is there.
And that's important because a lot of people say that remote viewing is precognition.
Yeah.
And so all you're really seeing is.
Yourself seeing the results afterwards.
Right.
It's, yeah, it's retro causality or whatever.
Yeah.
So if you don't look at the feedback, then you don't expect to have a good session.
So it's a big part of the process, kind of a weird loop there.
So when I had this thing happen to me, I didn't get the feedback.
I didn't have the body pop out.
So what was it?
You know, let me explain the story because it was the first thing that really blew my mind there.
And I don't remember.
I think it was Focus 10 still, but we had a free flow session where they're basically telling us to try it, have maybe a purpose, and state that to yourself, and then see what happens.
Go for it.
And so I think some people maybe had more meaningful purposes, but I was like, I'm going to guess a number.
And so I asked one of the other people at random hey, can you write down a four digit number, put it on your desk?
They're in a different room, and I'm going to see if I can come out.
Of my body and see it, and then we'll confirm it, you know.
Um, not really expecting to take us through what happened, yeah.
Take us through the feeling and everything.
I want to know everything, yeah.
So, um, let's see.
So, I don't know this person, I don't know what they're gonna guess.
Um, I don't know anything about them.
This is literally day one after the orientation when we all landed the free flow focus 10 on day one, yeah.
Okay, so in the afternoon, yeah, third session, yeah, something like that.
And, uh, so.
I go to my little cubby, my check unit.
You know, we're going through these guided steps with Bob in our ears and the sounds, soundscapes.
And I'm trying so hard, like to pop out as if it's like, you know, like a physical activity.
Like I'm trying to take a shit or something.
You know what I mean?
Like it's like, come on.
You know, spiritual crap.
And I've heard things like pull the rope or climb out or roll out.
Yeah, the rollout we did later.
I didn't know about that one as a technique, but nothing's happening.
And then I just relax and I'm just like, you know what?
I'm just going to, I see what I see, you know?
And I started to get these splotches.
And again, this is on the border of being kind of asleepslash awake.
So I'm sure I clicked out, they call it when you kind of sleep for a second and you're back.
But I started to get these splotches.
And the way I described it to the people there is it felt like I was in a dark room, black, and I had a lantern, like a candlelit lantern, and I was in a dark cave, right?
And I could light certain things up, and it was kind of lit like this a little bit, and then it would close off, and it was black again.
And the first splotch of things I could see was kind of like a wall, a textured wall.
And I remember kind of running my hand across it, and then it disappeared.
Okay.
Then it showed kind of the floor.
And you know, the check units have like a little opening, like a wooden frame around the opening that you get into your bed.
And so I saw the bottom corner of that, if I was like looking at the floor, and there was a bunch of like.
Bagslash clothes there.
I was like, okay, you know, this looks like a side of a bed kind of thing.
And then it closed off.
And then the next was an angular, like, imagine this is the desk.
It was a little smaller, but I had an angle of it like this.
So kind of a shallow angle, not above.
And there were papers, not as many as this, but a few papers on there and one slash card, small paper with numbers on it.
And I read clearly 173.
And then I couldn't quite make out the last digit.
It was a bit fuzzy, maybe because of the angle.
I don't know.
And I was like, that is so clear to me.
That is a number.
And then I realized to myself, like, this is the person's room.
This is the table.
This is, I don't know why there's other stuff on the table.
That felt weird to me.
Like, if this person was going to do this, I'd imagine they'd clear the table and make it very pronounced and easy to see.
But whatever, there's a number.
So I write it down.
And it's funny because before I was like just getting into the session, I I had a gut feeling of a number and I said, Oh, maybe that's the number, like kind of a remote viewing thing.
I was like, But then I had the table number, the one I actually saw.
So I actually wrote down two numbers and I wrote next to it, I said, 1022.
That was the other one.
I said, That's a gut feeling.
And I'm going to ignore that one because I wanted to go with the one that I saw, if I saw any.
And I saw that 17.
Well, so I saw 173 and I put a six at the end.
So 1736.
So I'm all excited.
I've written in my journal and I go out.
Into our fox's den, and the girl is coming down the stairs with the paper and it says 1734.
Right?
And my hair is on my eye.
It's a one in 10,000 chance right there.
Yeah.
I mean, it's not the same number, right?
The last digit was off, but I knew that I was not sure about the last digit.
Dude.
And even still, like to get those first three digits in the correct positions, too the one, the seven, the three is hard.
Math Behind Coincidence00:04:37
And the trainers were even like, if you know remote viewing or anything where you see numerics, it's really difficult.
Absolutely.
You can see shapes, ideas of things, but actual alphanumerics is really hard to discern.
So that was crazy.
And then later in the day, I asked the girl, I was like, Do you have a picture of that, by the way?
I don't.
Okay.
She might have.
Okay.
I have to ask her.
I should have taken a picture.
But I was like, can I see your room?
There were some pieces to my vision that I just want to confirm.
And sure enough, she had her bags and clothes all over the floor.
On the table, she had a bunch of papers.
She's a mother, so she was also pumping.
So she had paraphernalia for that.
And that was all over the table, too.
And I was like, I didn't make those out.
And I couldn't have told you it was breast pump stuff, but it was clearly other things on the table.
And it's funny because.
She made a note and she said, Like, yeah, when I travel, I'm such a mess.
And her roommate, you know, had her own desk and it was in the same room.
It was all clean, clean as could be.
Like, my desk was clean as can be.
I just, we just got there, you know.
But she happened to have all this crap all over the floor and all over the desk.
And it's like, that's what I saw.
So, you, that is so freaking wild, dude.
First of all, like, you projected your consciousness.
You were there.
Yeah.
And you got these, like, small glimmers of, like, so you were like, you had, like, part of your consciousness, if not all of it, be in this place.
Yeah.
I'm so curious to know that, like, if she was there and awake, would she have been able to feel or hear or see you?
Or, like, it's so interesting to me.
Yeah.
She would have told me, I guess, but I didn't ask if she felt me there.
But that's so freaking cool, man.
So that got me on a high, and everybody was like, who is this guy?
Like, he's so good at this already.
I was like, dude, I've never done this in my life.
Okay.
I don't know what happened.
Maybe it was like what I needed to see because I'm very skeptical about this.
And maybe that was part of my messaging.
Like, they'll give me a little they, I don't know what they is, but they'll give me a little.
Flavor so that, like, the rest of the week can just be more about you can be open to it, yeah.
Because I didn't want to be there to like guess numbers and do parlor tricks, I wanted to, yeah, that's my job at that point, get deep, you know, with myself.
And I think getting that out of the way let me kind of get deeper with myself and experience other things, dude.
That is so awesome, yeah.
That is when I heard that, I mean, that is just one of those personal confirmations, yeah, that you definitely need doing this.
And the thing is with this is like when you're on this path or whatever it is.
Like the universe will kind of like give you those signs and throw up these impossible coincidences.
And my brain, here's a really interesting thing about coincidences that I picked up recently.
You might like this because, in mathematical terms, a coincidence is when like two angles coincide.
When things, two things coincide, they fit perfectly together.
Now, in math, that's on purpose.
Okay.
Because if you have these things with these angles and it coincides with this one, it's not random.
Oh, right.
If we're talking about the word coincide.
Yes.
Yes, yes.
And that's where it comes from.
Right.
So we somehow have chosen to add, you know, accidental to this meaning.
Yeah.
When in math, it isn't an accident.
When a coincidence happens, it is calculated on some level through math.
Yeah.
And so it was just a really interesting notion for me to think of.
Look at coincidences differently now.
Yeah.
Like maybe I just don't have the formula or know the law, but coincidences, I think, are not coincidences.
And that's not something I would have thought of before.
Yeah.
You know, I was very much against that.
I was like, well, that's the definition of a coincidence, you know?
Love that.
Yeah, but that's really interesting.
You know, we had a few sessions as well, like our remote viewing session when Joe McMonagall came over, everybody got to remote view, and the session was.
It was the city of St. Louis, had the arch, and it had the big stadium.
Yes.
I drew the stadium.
I picked up on the stadium.
Yeah, I have it here.
I'll show you.
And about half the class picked up on the arch.
The arch, which is really cool.
Yeah.
So I'll show you this here in a second.
By the way, I had to.
We got the same thing.
You were front loaded.
I couldn't do it because I had seen your story.
So I was like, I asked the trainer, I was like, is this the same one you did a couple of weeks back?
Popping Bubbles and Finding Connection00:03:19
And he was like, yeah.
I was like, okay, I can't do it.
So that's the.
Wow.
Yeah.
And that was the.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So it was the same type thing.
But we had like a few good sessions.
And then, you know, the one was like the Devil's Peak or whatever.
Okay.
That mountain.
We had like the, you know, it looks like a giant tree trunk, what they used in Close Encounters.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Okay.
And Marco had picked up on that.
He had drawn this like thing with like a bunch of trees around and he drew a UFO over it.
And he's like, I don't know what this means.
And then it was the Devil's Peak or whatever it was.
And then we're like, yeah, that's where they filmed Close Encounters of the Third Kind.
That's the UFO connection.
That's so funny.
But one thing we had throughout the week, and you probably had this too, was we would start, and this is apparently very normal for the Monroe Institute.
Okay.
We would start popping up in each other's sessions.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
So, like, we would come back.
It was so excited from these sessions and be like, hey, you showed up in mine.
And they're like, you showed up in mine.
Yeah.
I'm like, oh, like, and we'd have these exchanges that were just, we were so excited to tell other people, like, or, hey, we'd have a secret message and the people would, Tell you that.
Like, we had, it was, I think, Ignacio and Amy, and they're both kind of veterans to this whole thing.
And Ignacio had Amy present her, I think, with a, what he describes as a bubble gum, but it was a round bubble made of like a soap bubble.
But he called it bubble gum for some reason.
And she's like, oh, she's like, that's funny.
Cause I was just playing.
She's like, I brought this little, it's like a toy gun that shoots bubbles.
And I go, bubble gun?
Oh, yeah.
And they go, whoa.
And she was playing with it just earlier.
And like this weird connection happened.
So funny.
I saw her in the meditation early in the day, and so I said those words to her.
And I waited to see if she was going to tell me or say the word bubble gum.
So when she said that, I said, this has to be it.
It's this round bubble type thing.
So I shared with her.
And then she shared with me that at lunch, while I was inside talking, she was out by the pool trying to get her bubble machine to work.
I brought, well, it was funny because at lunch when you mentioned to me, you were like, you know, like a soap bubble, like the little bubbles.
And I'm like, I was fiddling with it for like an hour.
I couldn't get it to work as batteries to like do, it's like a little fun kids' toy where it blows them.
And I was going to try and take pictures.
And yeah, so I brought a bubble gun.
A bubble gun?
A bubble gun.
A bubble gun!
There he is.
I brought a bubble gun.
Yeah, that was a CG5.
Oh, wow.
Funny.
Yeah, so we'd have all these overlaying things happen quite a bit.
And then, as you know, in the story where I saw Jordan's scoreboard, saw his face, his disembodied head appear like 3D.
I was like, oh, it's kind of scary.
And then, boom, this scoreboard, Dallas zero, and stats.
And I was Googling, trying to find a picture of this.
And you don't watch sports.
Darkness in Paris Sports Song00:15:46
I know that.
I didn't know.
I don't know shit about sports.
I know sports.
I used to play basketball, of course.
I don't follow sports.
You don't follow sports.
I didn't know, A, that Dallas.
I didn't know that the playoffs were happening.
I didn't know that Dallas were in the playoffs.
I didn't know anything, anything about it.
You could have told me the playoffs are in four months or they happened yesterday and I would have believed you.
I had no idea.
And so when I was like, hey, and he was like in the Foxes, Dan, I came up to him.
I was like, hey, does this mean anything to you?
And he goes, well, funny that you say that.
He's like, first of all, he's like, I'm from Dallas.
Mavericks are my favorite team.
And they're playing tonight.
And it's an elimination game.
And it's been on my mind.
And I usually don't think about it.
But today I was like, I have to think, I was like, whoa.
That's weird.
Yeah.
So it was like one of those like knowings.
Yeah.
Like when you had that vision, you're just like, oh, that's it.
Yeah.
That's when I saw it, I was like, this is something.
Cause it was so striking to me.
It wasn't a memory.
Yeah.
It wasn't like a, you know, like sometimes we get these vague 2D sort of like memories and we're like, oh, it's like an overlay.
This was like in like 3D.
I was like, and you're just scary.
Yeah.
And something in your video, you said how you were like reluctant to tell him.
I felt that too with things like even though you know, and even with my horse race thing, like even though you know, there's that creeping in of human skepticism.
Yeah.
That just is like, no, this is stupid.
Don't make a fool of yourself or don't go with that.
But the one thing that I love that Joe says, and he said it in our session, I'm sure he said it to yours, is that he said a lot of things.
He said a lot of things.
We talk about this as the sixth sense.
First of all, he didn't remember either of us.
No.
He sort of pretended, but I could see the glazed overlook in his eye.
He meets a lot of people.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I was kind of disappointed.
It's all right.
No offense.
But he said, you know, we talk about this stuff as being like a sixth sense, but it's really your first sense.
Ooh.
You know, like that.
And he talks about how that's how our species has survived.
Yeah.
You know, based on that instinctive thing.
So, you know, we, I think society has kind of pushed that away.
So, like, even when we have these gut instincts, it's kind of like hard for us to be like, Yeah, is this?
And not get ridiculed.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You're right.
You're absolutely right.
Programmed to squash it.
Yeah.
You know?
So, yeah.
And, you know, that's really interesting.
The thing about remote viewing, too.
And Dr. May said the same thing was that all of these things are more accurate when there's a life on the line.
Yeah.
Okay.
That's more at stake.
Yeah.
Because then it also ties into that primitive instinct that we may have developed through, you know, survival mechanisms.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, to stay alive, like if something dangerous is going to kill you, you know what I mean, or harm your family, then you might get a vision, an omen.
Yeah.
You know, and, and, uh, exactly.
And that's why it was so effective for the CIA because a lot of times it was hostage situations or it was, um, you know, high entropy targets like nuclear things.
Horrorist, war related.
Exactly.
War related.
And that's, you know, because they, they, and children, finding children, Joe would always say.
He's like, you'd have a very easy time finding kids.
Because again, the life was on the line and it was like this I don't know, this maybe this vibration of this pulse being sent out is like a help signal, you know, that you're picking up on.
I was going to tell you one more thing about the coinciding storylines or visions that people would have near the end of the week.
One session was really profound for me, and then I thought it was going to end.
I thought Bob, who was in our ear, was going to kind of wind us down, but there was like more to it.
I was like, oh, shoot, what do I do now?
I'm like, I did good on this one.
Like, I have nothing to do.
So I was like, I'll try to get out of body.
And I did.
And I felt like a pop.
Like, I was walking around the Fox's Den and I was like, I'm going to go and try to get people out of their things.
And like, we'll go for a ride, you know, like go hang out.
So I was like going room to room, trying to pull bodies out.
And along the way, I went up the stairs to the second floor.
I was on the bottom floor.
And I bump into someone who was floating towards me.
And it was this woman, Elizabeth.
And I was like, what's up?
You know?
In my vision or whatever, and I keep going, and I try to pull some people out.
They didn't confirm that, so that didn't work out.
But Elizabeth said that she had an experience where she wasn't sure if it was an out of body, but I think it was.
She didn't say she saw me, but it was the one time in the whole experience that she felt something where she was out in the hallways.
That was a bit of a confirmation there.
Yeah.
I mean, it wasn't, I would have liked more confirmation, but it's funny that.
I saw her only, and that she had the one instance right then, that exact same session.
Very cool.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The thing about the out of bodies that I've had, because I've had two since I've gotten back so far.
And maybe by the time this video goes up, I'll have had more.
One was through a lucid dream after lucid dreaming or rolling out of a lucid dream.
But the second one was from my bed once again.
And I can tell you, like, when I hear this, When I hear you saying, like, you don't know if it wasn't out of body, like, I, like, there's no other explanation.
I see myself.
I'm in my room.
I'm physically feeling things and I'm awake.
Okay.
And I can see myself.
Yeah.
And it is so scary and terrifying.
Like, there's no other explanation other than, okay, that's an out of body.
Yeah.
Like, for me.
So when I hear you say, like, I don't know, like, I have a hard time imagining what it is you're seeing.
If it's just like a projected consciousness or if it's, it's something, because I know it is real because you obviously come back with these numbers and everything else, but it's just such a varying.
The experiences are varied.
And I found that with other people too.
Like where mine is fuzzy, Arky said that his started off being fuzzy, just like mine.
Okay.
Black and white, no color, fuzzy, low ISO.
And you could feel it.
You're walking around your house and you can, like, you know, you can put your hand through a wall.
You're like, whoa, like all these things.
But as he did it more and more, it became more clear.
And then Rosalie said she would demand clarity.
She would go, clarity now.
Oh, okay.
And she's a very docile person, like very sharp.
But she's like, when I get in my outer body, she's like, I'm very commanding.
And she's like, you have to be because it's your reality.
And she's like, clarity now.
And all of a sudden it would be clear as day, right?
And we would joke about, like, oh, you need OBE.
You need to sign up for OBE to get the HD version.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
The 4K.
Exactly.
The 4K.
4K streaming.
Yeah, but just to touch on that, because for me, it was, there's no, like, I know I was out of body because I could see my body.
Yeah.
No, I mean, I did have a short instance where it felt like that.
And I wouldn't describe it as having terror, though.
But we were in the check units doing our thing.
And at one point, I had an itch on my nose, and I really try not to move in my sessions.
I usually have my hands like interlaced across my chest here.
And I went to scratch my nose, and I realized I was like in to my face.
Ah, you were scratching with your consciousness.
With my fake hand, your spirit body.
And then it snapped back.
Yeah.
And there was that like realization, the kind of thing.
And that felt like an out of body.
More like what you're talking about.
And the itch went away, by the way.
Yeah.
But who knows?
Maybe that was just mentally it went away.
And kind of a couple more times that little snapping happened in the same session.
Like I leaned up to reach, it was kind of at the tail end of the session.
I was reaching my notebook by my foot and my hand went through the notebook.
And I was like, oh, fuck, it's out of body.
Yeah.
And then I zapped back.
Yeah.
And another instance of that happened.
But okay.
So those are more in line with the time you're talking about.
Yeah, I think.
But the seeing the number, I never felt like I was popped out or floating anywhere or seeing my body.
Same with the one where I like walked around.
But that's what Arky was telling me about.
He's like, there is more than one way to have experiences with your consciousness.
And the one thing he kept emphasizing was you can take a portion of your consciousness and send it anywhere in the universe and in time and space and have and, you know, bring back information.
He's like, that is much more valuable.
He's like, there is sort of almost like a novelty to the out of body thing where it's like you want to have it.
Yeah.
But once you've had it over and again.
You're kind of like, okay, but now what?
Yeah.
Like, what else can I do?
You know, and that's, I've now I'm on my like fourth out of body experience that I've had.
And I'm still in the phase of I want to do out of body still because I'm tiptoeing from having those really crazy flying experiences to the third one I had, which was like, I can't even explain.
Like, I'll talk about it here quickly, but I was in a dream, it was turning into a sex dream.
And it was during the gateway, the true gateway experience.
Well, during that moment that I realized it's this can be a sex dream, I was like, oh, this is a dream.
And now I was like, oh, forget that.
I'm like, I want to go out of body.
And as soon as I utter those words in my imagination, I get thrown, is the only description I can have.
My consciousness gets thrown.
I feel myself being projected like a thousand miles an hour.
And darkness, complete darkness.
Just being thrown super scared.
Hearing a loud whoosh, like a whoosh, like this, while it's happening, I was like, oh my God.
I'm like, it's happening.
I'm out of body.
And I remember thinking to myself because Hannah, who is one of the people that was there, and she was the only person who had an actual out of body experience while we were there, and she'd never had one before.
And she described, it was really interesting, and she kind of thought to herself, like, oh, maybe this isn't for me.
It's happening to everybody else, you know, like that type of deal.
And when it happened to her, she got this, like, what she describes as a peppermint feeling all over her body, like a cold peppermint feeling.
And I had that same feeling.
But then she popped out like a.
She's like, she describes it like the soul popped out of the mold of her body, like an ice cube out of a tray.
Oh, okay.
It popped out.
It's a good visual.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And instantly, she has a sister that lives in Paris.
So she's like, Paris, Paris, Paris.
You know, you panic when you're out of body.
Every time it's happened to me, like, since I've been out of body, I'm like, oh, what do I do with this?
I don't want to go back to the body.
Think of something, right?
And you panic.
And everybody's like, slow down.
But you have no, like, you're kind of excited.
Yeah.
And she goes, Paris, Paris, Paris, and whooshes off to Paris.
She's flying around Paris.
Now she's thinking, I want to get a croissant.
And she was way too excited, slammed back in her body because any emotional spike will bring you back.
And wakes up, you know, in tears.
Like she was so happy.
As soon as I left the body and I'm being projected in this eternal darkness, I'm thinking to myself, what do I do?
And I go, Paris, Paris, Paris.
When I said it, my voice was like a devil.
It was like, Paris, Paris, Paris.
I remember thinking, what the fuck? That came from me?
And then I felt the world around me shift.
Like I felt everything shift, even in the darkness.
Like everything was shifting.
Like I was going to Paris.
But then I was like, oh, well, I can't see anything.
Let me open my eyes.
So I started opening my eyes.
I'm forcing my eyes open.
And now I see these giant monolithic cubes churning, is the only way I could say it, into each other with this giant sound, this rumbling, like tesseract.
It sounds like Inception when the glass actually folds on itself.
You remember that song?
Yeah, it kind of felt like that.
And I was like, I was scared of it.
And I closed my eyes, I opened it again, still there.
I was like, God, no.
And I was like, wiggle your fingers.
And I wiggle my fingers and I feel myself slam back in my body.
So that was that, right?
That was a totally different thing.
Never happened.
Like that was, it felt closer to a dream than the other things because I couldn't see myself.
I couldn't see my room.
Yeah.
But this next one that happened a few weeks ago or last week, it was a couple of days ago, actually.
I get up, it's like 1 30 in the morning.
I'm up in my bed and I'm thinking, just go back to sleep.
I'm like, oh, I'm very tired.
I can probably, maybe I can have an out of body experience.
And so I close my eyes.
I'm in my bed and I go, I deeply desire to leave my body in my head.
I deeply desire to leave my body.
And on a third time I say it, I felt myself go, like glitching back and forth, like a vibratory glitch.
It was very bizarre.
At this point, I was buzzing already.
My whole body was like vibrating and I'm sinking into my bed.
Now I'm sinking into my bed.
I'm like, okay, it's happening.
You get that familiar feeling of out of body.
I know I'm there.
I know I'm in this upside down realm.
It's happening.
I force my eyes open.
Now I see my room.
I'm in the mattress.
And I'm like, oh, I got to get up.
And I put my hand on the mattress and I lift myself up and I look and I just see myself there, just dead.
And I go, oh, that's enough for me.
All right, that's enough.
And I go right back into my body, and I'm wide awake at this point.
My heart's pounding.
And that's the sort, that's where I'm at with all this.
You got to get over that fear of seeing yourself.
I don't know how you do that.
It's, and Arky said it takes time.
He's like, it's very scary at first.
But eventually, through practice, you know, like he said, he's like, he would take two steps and go back into his body.
He would, you know, push forward.
Yep, put his hand through the window.
Ooh, that's enough for tonight.
Let's go back.
And because you do get frightened.
Sometimes you might see something else you don't like to see.
You're like, ooh, I don't want to see that.
I want to go back in.
And, Have these experiences and then eventually leave the wind and you fly away.
So I'm still in that novelty phase.
But to touch back to where I began this rant, there are so many apparent variations of things you can do with your consciousness.
It makes sense, right?
That if our consciousness is infinite and can do all these different things, like why would the experience of having an OBE always be the same?
I'm sure it's some projection of how you approach it and what you're feeling, you know, and it can vary.
So.
That doesn't surprise me.
Yeah.
And like Joe McMonagall says, he always says, the subconscious knows all.
Yeah.
Like it's all knowing.
Yep.
You know, and then I'm always reminded that one of my favorite lines from Eddie Vedder, which is, a mind full of questions and a teacher in my soul.
And I've never gotten that before.
And it was always one of my favorite songs on the album Into the Wild.
The song is called Guaranteed, my favorite song, and the lyrics are amazing.
But now it has a whole different meaning where I'm like, I do have a teacher, and the teacher might just be me.
Yeah, yeah, right.
You know, one thing I did learn from all this experience is I can go into a room, turn off the lights, put headphones on, listen to sounds, come out of the room with more knowledge than I had going in.
That's so true.
And I'm like, where did that come from?
I didn't read a book, I didn't watch a show.
I was there by myself, apparently.
And yet I come out knowing more.
Access something.
Yeah, or knowing something better, knowing more about something.
Feeling Life Through Frequencies00:03:53
That's wild.
Yeah, I have the same feeling too.
Yeah, that's pretty cool.
I was going to say one thing I was going to say is the, you know, talk about the peppermint feeling that Hannah had.
When these experiences happened to me or something weird happened, I got like a cold air flying in or out.
I couldn't really tell the difference, but a cold pressure difference coming out of my ears.
Every time.
Interesting.
Yeah.
And I feel it coming.
I'm like, because it's not like there's air being blasted into the outside.
I was like, okay, something's happening.
Yeah.
That was pretty interesting.
I asked the trainers, and they're like, never heard that before.
So again, maybe it's just people have different.
I think so.
I think we all have different precursors to knowing.
I now get that peppermint feeling.
I get it in my stomach and in my back.
Like it starts growing.
And I'm like, what's happening?
I try not to get excited.
But for me, vibrations is the big one.
It starts at my feet.
And if I'm having a really good session, it'll like stay around the lower part of my body.
But if I'm having like a really intense thing, it'll climb up and it'll be my whole body.
And in the book Journeys Out of the Body, he recommends controlling it to a point where you can run it up your body and down, kind of like this.
So you're creating this pulse going up and down.
And that's like part of the practice of eventually popping out.
So I'm getting there.
Cool.
Yeah.
I mean, with the different frequencies of the F10, 15, 21, 12, whatever we were touching on, like I could feel.
Vibrational differences like, and not necessarily in my body sometimes, but it would be like around my head or like where my consciousness was expanding into, or like my brain felt like it was being jiggled, you know, like weird sensations with different uh depths of relaxation or those different frequencies.
It was stuff I've never felt in my life, so bizarre, yeah, bizarre, but also familiar, yeah, is the uh, is the other thing.
It's like, uh, you know.
Like, I was going to say loving and comforting, but that's almost familiar.
That's essentially what that is.
Yeah, like getting to know myself.
Like, I put this into words the other day, but it was like, it was like kind of like seeing an old childhood friend for the first time in 30 years.
Yeah.
It was new, but familiar.
Yeah.
I was like, oh, this is me.
Like, and yeah, my how we've changed.
Yeah.
This is refreshing, familiar, nice.
You know, you got that nostalgic feeling of, oh, hey, young Chris.
You know, there you are.
Yeah.
You know, and kind of like, you know, the movie Hook when Robin Williams goes back and then he realizes that he's Peter Pan.
Yeah.
And that kind of like moment where he's like, oh, and they're like, oh, there you are, Peter.
You know, I kind of feel like that now where I was like, oh, where were you this whole time?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I found myself like wanting to jump into my check unit.
Like I was so excited.
Like, let's go.
I'm like on a journey.
And even, you know, I came back Friday and.
I was exhausted.
Travel day.
And then Saturday, I finally got a moment to do a longer exercise.
And I got so excited.
And when I was in it, it was like so familiar to be back in that place.
And I was just so happy to do it again, like to relax and hear some of the sounds.
And even Bob's voice has now become like this very comforting thing to hear.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We always joke like we all have daddy issues because you're like, you couldn't wait for Bob to tuck in.
Every night, wake you up in the morning.
Yeah.
Definitely daddy issues.
Hearing Comfort in Familiar Sounds00:07:14
The one thing that was weird to me was when he would say the thing about eliminations, like a lot of eliminations.
Do you remember that line?
No.
It was usually when you're coming out and he'd be like, You'll remember everything you saw and you'll be more perfect coming out of this and relax and all the eliminations will be complete and stuff.
I just like.
I never got that.
No.
Me and me, I drowned that out.
Weird.
But I was like, What eliminations are you talking about here?
Sometimes I would.
I'd be very much awake and I would hear his voice come in in mid sentence.
Oh, interesting.
And I was like, oh, that just like somehow clicked out of his voice.
Like I, yeah, I would drown him out sometimes, but I was not in a state of sleep.
Same, yeah, no, sometimes he'd be counting.
You know, we go to 12 and it'd be like 10, 11, and then it'd be like 15.
I'd be like, oh, what happened?
The other one, I was here, I was here, I was not asleep because I had like all these visions and stuff.
It is funny because when you get into the mind awake, body asleep, so the first thing that goes is your sense of touch.
Yeah.
That's the first thing that goes.
And you can feel that when you're meditating that your hands feel numb and your feet.
Which is like nothing.
Yeah, there's nothing there.
Like you kind of feel like, oh, they could be up here.
Yeah.
Right.
And it's like that whole feeling.
So you're feeling your touch goes first.
That's right.
Then it's your sense of smell.
Then it's one or the other, but it's hearing and sight.
Smell, taste, hearing, and sight.
Sight and hearing go last.
So after that, you're asleep.
And so the Focus 10 is trying to play with that, but not fall asleep.
And you can tell it's starting to happen when you lose the feeling of your limbs.
That's when you're like, okay, that's the first phase.
Second phase should be, you know, taste and smell, which you can't really tell.
But then you're in this weird in between of sight and sound where, like we said, you start, you stop hearing things.
You start hearing other things.
You stop seeing things or you start seeing other things.
And that's when it becomes nebulous in this weird realm where you start getting visions.
I heard one of the last sessions I had clear as day.
Like I hear car doors slamming sometimes, like things like that.
But on right as I was exiting, I heard woohoo like, like, like this, like it was like Mario Brothers or something.
It was like this loud, like audible.
I was like, the hell is that?
Yeah.
Did they throw like, and I asked the trainers out, do you guys have like a little soundboard?
Yeah.
Like a woohoo.
And they're like, what?
No.
I was like, okay.
And nobody else heard that?
No.
It was just, yeah, there was this clear, like, woohoo, like super happy, ecstatic.
Like, can't explain it.
But a lot of strange occurrences happen at the Monroe Institute.
Yeah.
And they are no stranger to that over there.
They've come across a lot of it.
Yeah.
You know what was crazy?
Another kind of profound confirmation again was, and this happened throughout, but really when we did Focus 15, which is this no time state, they didn't really front load us much before that.
And I found what was amazing when we came out, we were all asked to describe what we, where we were, what we felt.
Same description all across the board.
I mean, to varying degrees, but essentially the same.
The no time, the void, a black kind of like nowhere ness, infinite possibilities, potential, or whatever.
And this is common, not just our group.
Like they said, this is what we had the same thing.
So for me to think like there's different frequencies.
The binaural beats were different for this state.
And it's like a cocktail of sounds, but ultimately it's this difference in frequency.
I was like, how can such a.
Obviously, that's generating a relaxing state that's common for all of us, but like, how interesting is it that we're all kind of going to the same place?
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, without.
It's a real place.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, absolutely.
We're all making the same shit up, you know?
And that, you know, also goes into focus 21 and 27 and 40 and all the higher levels of like, Interdimensionality and you know, these beings and whatnot.
Like, people say the same thing, they report the same things on these different levels, which is interesting.
We on focus 15, what was interesting, our second session, the entire group clicked out.
Oh, really?
Not one person.
Interesting.
Was this the one where you went up to 15, down to 12, up to 15, down to 12?
Exactly.
Okay.
We all clicked out.
Every single person.
Weird.
Not one person had anything to report.
That's bizarre.
As soon as I started, like, we in the hallways, and I'm like, ah, clicked out on that one.
Like, ah, me too.
I was like, oh, yeah, that happens.
Yeah.
You know, how'd you do?
Ah, clicked out.
We're like, oh, yeah, us too.
Yeah, nice.
How about you were there?
Ah, clicked out.
We're like, dude, do we all click out?
We go inside, people sitting down, like, hey, how'd you guys do?
Ah, clicked out.
I was like, what?
We all clicked out.
We're all sitting down.
Somebody comes in.
You clicked out, didn't you?
They're like, yeah.
I'm like, whoa.
And then 13 of us are like, yeah, we all clicked out.
Wow.
Every one of us.
Nobody had anything.
That's got to mean something, right?
I don't know.
I thought like, we had like, Theories that, like, do we all just get abducted?
Like, does something happen?
Do we get like a maybe a communal download or something?
Damn, yeah.
Other, I mean, there's some other interesting things that I'd love to get into, but I think we'll save it.
We're gonna do a little Patreon episode.
You down for that?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
All right, guys, if you want to be a part of the Area 52 community, it is very simple.
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Nelson, thanks so much for joining us here.
Awesome being here.
Thanks for having me.
Is there anything you want to say to the audience before we go?
Is there anything you want to plug?
I would plug going to the Monroe Institute.
Holy crap.
What an amazing experience.
Whether you're spiritual, believe in the paranormal, or not, you know, like I think it's a way to get to know yourself and answer some deep questions.
Again, you don't have to be God.
I don't believe in God.
I don't know what I believe in anymore, but it's profound.