Chris Ramsay and Luigi Venditelli, former MUFON Canada director, reconnect after a hiatus to discuss UAPs, referencing Ramsay's new merchandise and upcoming content schedule. Venditelli shares his 30-year journey, sparked at age nine by his grandfather's 1965 Chabanel Street sighting of a silver disc moving too fast for normal aircraft. This personal anecdote anchors their broader exploration of unexplained aerial phenomena, suggesting that individual testimonies remain critical to understanding the reality behind decades of UFO reports. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, MahmoudAshraf/mms-300m-1130-forced-aligner, sat-12l-sm, script v0.9, and large-v3-turbo
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Channel Update and Project News00:02:12
Just an update before we get into the podcast.
I know I haven't been very active on this channel in several months, and that is due to the workload that we have here.
But also, I'm currently investigating four different projects at the moment that we will be releasing, one of which will be coming out shortly.
I will keep you guys posted on that.
Secondly, if you want to support this channel, we now have merch available at first.shop.
We are launching the Area 52 patch, as well as the pin and this t shirt.
Ingo, we trust.
So, for those of you familiar with the first investigation that we've done, you'll know what that means.
So, check that out at first.shop.
Lastly, I want to say I will be uploading more frequently on this channel, and I'm going to try and get out at least monthly videos, if not podcasts, that will come out bi monthly.
One thing that really helps, especially if you're an audio listener, is going to whatever audio platform you listen to this podcast on and give it a five star rating.
The more people who do that, the better this podcast.
Will do in the ratings.
And obviously, the more attention I can put onto Area 52.
So, again, the better this channel does, the more attention it will receive from us here.
So, if you guys do want to encourage us, but you don't want to sign up to Patreon or buy the merch or any of that, well, something that you can do that is totally free is head over to whatever platform you're listening to this on, whether it's iTunes or Spotify, and leave us a really good rating.
That actually helps us quite a bit.
So, thank you.
Sorry for the long delay and enjoy the podcast.
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to Debriefed.
Today on Debriefed, I have my esteemed guest here.
This is Luigi Venditelli.
Hi, you're so welcome.
Luigi has been involved in the UFO scene for what, over three decades now?
That's about right, yeah.
You were once the director of MUFON.
For Canada.
For Canada, which is the Mutual UFO Network.
Yep.
And yeah, today we're going to be talking a little bit about sightings, a little bit about craft, a little bit about UFOs and all that.
Can I just start by saying.
Welcome Luigi Venditelli to Debriefed00:03:15
It's so much fun to be able to talk about this.
Yeah.
Do you ever get that feeling?
Always.
Yeah.
Because, like, you can't do it all the time.
You can't do it all the time.
And sometimes you're sort of forced to bite your tongue.
Yeah.
A little bit.
And I mean, especially on camera, but also just you don't know who you're talking to, right?
So you don't know at what level of, you know, insane they are, like I am.
And there's always going to be the ones where you're always scared that they're going to, in the middle of you talking, they're going to start looking at you up and down and you know you lost them.
Yeah.
You know, so you got to be careful with that.
Yeah.
That is true.
Do you ever get that feeling sometimes when you're speaking with someone and then you're like, maybe I said, Too much.
Oh, yeah.
It happens a lot.
Yeah.
It still happens.
A friend of mine says that when it comes to this subject, the more you talk, the crazier you sound.
And it's one of those things that I just can't help sounding crazy because I'm really passionate about it.
Yeah.
I've been in this stuff since I was young.
What was the trigger that got you into this?
Was there, like, for me, it was Fire in the Sky, the Travis Walton story.
And that maybe is something we can get into after, but you're a friend of Travis.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Definitely we'll get into that.
But what got you into this whole thing?
I started super young.
I was.
I was nine, so it must have been like 1984.
And my.
I was born.
Really?
Yeah.
Oh, wow.
I was nine.
Yeah.
So I was.
My grandfather, my mom's dad, he was an Italian soldier and also a prisoner in a concentration camp in Germany during the Second World War.
He almost died.
And he knew a lot about aviation and the military and all that.
He was very much involved in the Second World War.
So in 1965.
Five years after that, he immigrated to Canada.
He was living in an apartment with my grandmother, my mom, and my aunt.
And he had a couple that came, friends from Italy, that came to visit.
He was outside.
He was having a cigarette on the balcony on Chabanel.
Anybody who knows the street Chabanel in Montreal knows where that is.
And there was no buildings at the time.
So anytime somebody goes there now, it's full of buildings.
There was none of that.
And he says it was a huge field going all the way north.
And suddenly, him and his friends see this.
Object from the horizon coming towards them really fast, and he knew right away he says that thing is moving way too fast to be normal.
So he stood up, they were sitting down, he stood up, and he's he says, We didn't even have the time to kind of react that it came like, Whoa!
And he says, It was a giant round silver disc, oh my god, with fire coming out of it.
And he and it went so fast that they both ran into the apartment, scared my mom, who was younger, my grandmother went to the window.
On the other side.
And by the time they got to the other side, it was on the horizon of the other side.
So he said, you know, and they were screaming, and his friend as well, in Italian, disco volante, which means flying saucer.
And he always stuck to the story.
So I used to be.
I used to get babysat by my grandparents all the time.
And sometimes my grandfather would talk about it.
And my grandmother, along with whoever was there, would just laugh at him.
Always like, come on, don't say silly things.
That's impossible.
And I could always see his reaction was always like, I'm saying the truth, you know, like I'm not lying.
And I knew him.
He's like Catholic, super, you know.
Yeah.
That era, I mean, the last thing you wanted to.
To do was be labeled crazy or anything.
Especially with flying saucers.
Exactly.
So that totally got me hooked because I said, if my grandfather's not lying and he saw this silver disc, then what did he see?
And that was it.
I was nine.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That is a truly, truly remarkable thing to hear as a child because it's like science fiction almost.
That's kind of the same feeling I had with Fire in the Sky when they're like based on a true story.
I was like, how?
What part?
Yeah.
Hold on.
The part with the aliens?
Is that what you're telling me?
That's based on a true story?
It's crazy.
And does it?
Child, you know, nowadays you can say this was based on a true story, that was based on a true story, and people would take it with a grain of salt.
And I think that's fine.
But back then, I was so young, I didn't know.
So I was like, oh, this is the truth.
So even if today I believe him, back then I sure as hell believed him.
Believe them even more.
Exactly.
I was like, oh, well, they would lie to me if they told me it was the truth.
And so that really, really set me off down that path.
Now, you have another project which we're going to get into on this channel eventually as well.
We're big supporters here of Bob Lazar and anything that Jeremy Corbell works on as well.
But for the past two years, you've also been working with Bob on a documentary.
Now, I don't want to get into it too much here.
Maybe you can give just a synopsis, a little quick thing, because I think I'll have you back once that airs.
Sure.
And we'll talk about it more fully once everything's out.
Sure.
Yeah.
We started working with Bob, myself, and my team.
In Montreal, what we did really fast is we got his approval, we got his collaboration, not just his approval.
He's actually worked with us for two years, and we rebuilt in a 3D environment.
So everything is completely digital, so it's not tangible, but hyper realistic using Unreal Engine 5, Blender, Meta Humans, the whole nine yards.
State of the art tech.
We got selected by some companies that are also owned by Steven Spielberg to do some of the VFX, and we've recreated Groom Lake.
Facility, which is Area 51, the Papoose Mountain Range, which is right where S4 was.
S4 is the base where he was.
Papoose Lake, S4, the nine hangars, the whole facility, the crafts inside, the equipment, the soldiers, the military guys, the scientists, the documents.
Everything's been recreated, hyper realistic to exact memory detail of Bob Lazar.
Let's just say that Bob remembered everything about the craft perfectly and the reactor.
The base is about 80% accurate because he says the rest.
He couldn't remember, you know, like mundane things.
So we built it as close as we could.
But the craft isn't something you're going to forget.
Yeah.
He remembers.
If he was hazy on the craft, you might be like, well, is this.
No one's hazy on it going into a city.
That's what he kept saying, you know, because we kept that.
We got the craft out of the way and we just said, what did the walls look like?
He goes, I was looking at the craft.
Yeah.
That's what I would do too.
So he says, you know, he certainly gave us enough information that we built it as he said, like, you know, cinder blocks and all that.
That's right.
But you know, where the fire extinguishers were, and where the he goes, you got to take creative liberty.
I don't remember, you know.
So, that's that's how we did it.
Fair enough.
That's pretty much in a nutshell.
I've seen, you know, and I've gone there and seen it myself a little bit.
You gave me a little taste of it, and I was blown away, which you guys will see.
And we'll save that for another video.
Um, yeah, I think that's all I'll say about that because I really do want the suspense to build.
And this is an amazing project.
If you guys want to follow the journey, it is Project Gravitor.
You can follow it on Instagram.
Do you have a website as well?
YouTube, yeah.
Project Gravitor, and it's Gravitor, T A U R. T A U R, like Taurus.
Yeah, yeah.com.
Or Instagram, YouTube.
Check us out.
Follow us.
Every time there's an update, we put it up there.
So let's go back a little bit.
Do you mind if we talk about Travis Walton a little bit?
Yeah, sure.
Let's do it.
Yeah.
I have actually here a little.
I showed you a little card signed by Travis.
Yeah.
Who's at Saucer Co?
Saucer Co.
They got great stuff.
They got great stuff.
They put that out.
I'm a big fan of trading cards, and I'm a I'm a big fan of Travis's story and, you know, what he went through.
For me, it really, you know, that really marked me.
Was it John Cusack in the movie?
Oh, no, it was not John Cusack.
I can't remember the name of the actor, actually, but there was, well, there's even the guy who played Elliot in E.T., who's an actor.
That's right.
Yes, that's right.
Henry, Henry something.
Yeah, I got it.
Now it's going to bug me.
Yeah, I can't remember his name.
What's his name?
So, yeah, and the actor that played Travis, Travis is actually in the movie.
I don't know if you know that.
I did not know that.
There's a scene when there's the whole town that's in a church because they're talking about the guys.
It's a D.B. Sweeney.
That's it.
Yeah.
That's it.
Okay.
Sorry.
John Cusack adjacent.
Yeah.
He does look like John Cusack.
When I was young, he was John Cusack.
Yeah.
But I've only rewatched this movie once since, and I probably should rewatch it again.
But when I saw his interview on Joe Rogan, now I know he's probably done interviews a lot.
A lot.
But when I saw that one, And, you know, he started going through some detail.
I mean, I encourage anybody to watch it because, like, it's really good.
Yeah, this guy is not lying, man.
Not at all.
Not at all.
He's not a crazy person.
Can you, because you've met the people that were involved with this, can you talk to us a little bit about that?
Sure.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, the first person I met was Travis.
I got to meet Travis in 2015, if I remember correctly.
Super.
The guy is one of the nicest people you'll ever meet.
He's a very down to earth guy.
Very well spoken, very, very intelligent guy.
He doesn't like attention very much, which is something that I think is also a good characteristic.
And he's obviously been affected by whatever happened to him in 1975 because I could still, I could have, I still felt that trauma.
There is some trauma there.
I think in the interview that comes across as well.
And I think there's more trauma than he shows because, you know, he's a, He's got to keep his composure, but I could tell that he's very affected by whatever happened.
Whatever is in the movie, though, is really important to make a note that.
Yeah.
It's fiction.
Yeah.
It's based on a real story that is a lot more interesting than what the movie shows, believe it or not.
And I was kind of disappointed, and so was Travis, that Hollywood took that direction because what you see in the movie is these very mean gray aliens, you know, putting him on a table and.
Instruments.
Instruments, very, very.
Besides the fact that that has happened to other people is not related to the Travis story.
Scared the shit out of me, though.
Right.
Yeah, me too, actually.
Yeah, I remember that.
I was like, I don't like aliens now.
But what's the most important thing to remember is that Travis saw two different types of beings when he got abducted, when that happened to him, which were these beings that were big heads, big eyes.
And they were not black eyes.
They had normal looking eyes, brown eyes.
And he remembered that when they blinked.
He says it looked like window shutters.
Like a lizard on the wall.
Yeah, like how big it was when it was, you know?
He says that.
So you said they had pupils?
They had pupils.
Is that something that's also.
I don't know if you saw, there was something, and we'll come back to this, this is a bit of a tangent, but on Reddit, there was a few months ago someone who claimed that they worked on one of these bodies, one of these grays.
And that they took out a film or something?
They took off the film from the eye and they said it was used to protect.
To them, and they had a coating on their skin as well, this like greasy coating that like protected them.
Yeah.
But yeah, bit of a tangent.
I mean, yeah, I've heard of it, and that's very possible.
I mean, whoever, it's very likely.
Because if you were lying about the grays, you wouldn't say, oh, they don't have black eyes.
Yeah, because that's what the story was.
Yeah.
Anyways.
Exactly.
And they were wearing these orange, oops, orange jumpsuits that were really tight fitting.
And he woke up, he was in horrible pain on his chest.
Yeah.
And he had this contraption on his chest.
Jumped up.
He sees three of them, gets really scared.
He grabs something on a table and tries to protect himself.
They walk up.
They walk out of this pipe or two.
It was like a clear rod or something.
And he's trying to scare them away, which he did.
They turned, they looked, they did that to him.
They turned around and went out this room where there was this table.
They went to the right.
He followed, but went to the left.
And he says it was such a small corridor that was going around.
Gets into a room.
There's a seat in the middle.
As he walks into the room, the whole room, it's like a dome.
Becomes completely transparent and you could see stars.
And he sits in the seat and there's a control on the left side.
He touches something and he sees the stars kind of moving, like as if he must have moved whatever something happened.
And he says, made him dizzy.
And he looked behind and there was a man, a human looking man, like a tall, blonde haired, muscular man in a blue jumpsuit.
This sounds like real sci fi.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And he thought it was the army, somebody from the military saving him.
Right.
So that's the first, and he says he had like a glass, like almost like an aquarium, a fishbowl, you know, with it just, and he goes, he went right up to the guy and he says, you know, help me, where are we, what's going on?
And the guy didn't answer him, just looked at him.
And I remember asking Travis, I think it was the last time I saw him, we went into great detail about that.
Oh my gosh.
And I said, when you went up to him and you looked at him straight in the eyes, and you could tell when he was, when I was asking him the question, that he kind of like, The dread started coming into him.
You could feel the dread.
You could tell that this really messed with him.
God, it's terrifying.
And I said, Do you think maybe it was just human?
I remember.
And he just looked at me and he goes, No.
He goes, The eyes.
He knew.
He says, There's something about their eyes that wasn't like our eyes.
So he saw these, and subsequently, this.
Being this person brought him outside of this craft, he was in this big hangar.
There was a whole bunch of those flying objects, but they were parked there.
Walked into a room, you were he was in the craft, he was in the craft in the hangar in the craft.
He was in the craft.
He says, This man grabbed his arm, like saying, Come with me.
Yeah, brought him very close to where they were.
He says, There was like a, uh, how did he call it?
Imagine those European little elevators that are tiny.
Yeah, so he says.
We go into this little area, one door closed.
He goes, Oh, by the way, when he woke up, it was super hot and humid in there.
He says it was like being in a damp, like in a sauna.
Whoa.
He says it was very hot and very humid.
This is with the grays?
With the grays.
Yeah.
So he says the temperature in there was super hot and very, very, very humid.
So he says, When we get into this little space, a door closed and another door, this door opened.
He says, And fresh air came in.
So it was almost like those.
Creatures had to live at a different temperature to be comfortable, or maybe.
And that's probably why this guy had some type of a helmet or something, right?
Because Travis was not, I don't think he was meant to wake up on the table, right?
So there was a ramp.
He says the guy led him down this ramp.
And he said, when he got to the ground, first of all, he says this was a gigantic, big place that looked like a hangar, but it wasn't built like it didn't look like we built the hangar, basically.
And there was a portion of it.
That had this beautiful yellow light, like if it was glass.
Yeah.
He says he didn't know if that was the sun shining in or if it was just artificial sunlight.
Right.
Right.
And he says he looked back and he saw that it was the craft that he had seen in the forest.
Yeah.
And the other crafts that were parked, he says there was a whole bunch of them.
They all look like, I guess, like squashed.
Imagine taking a tic tac and squashing it a bit, making it a little bit more like not perfect cylinder, kind of more oval.
And he was a whole bunch of them.
They were silver.
And the floor he remembers was green and it felt like rubber.
And he says, keep in mind, this is 1975.
So this is not stuff that we.
Had much of at the time.
Anyway, this person led him into this through this place.
So they walked, and there were two doors that automatically opened, like we would have, or, you know, two doors opening when you go into a grocery store.
Yeah, or even grocery.
I mean, you walk into, you know, Loblaws, it'll just open like that.
And he says, and there was a smaller hallway.
They walked into another room.
And when he went into that room, there was a woman and a man, again, very tall, blonde.
And very muscular.
The woman said she was drop dead gorgeous.
The men were super built.
How tall?
He's 6'2.
Yeah.
And he said that they were.
He's a tall gentleman.
He's 6'2.
And he said they were definitely taller than he was.
So 6'7, maybe 6'5.
Not as much.
No, he said probably 6'3, 6'4.
Yeah.
He goes, not much taller, but taller than him.
Nordic looking.
Very Nordic looking, very muscular, wearing a blue jumpsuit.
He says, as soon as he walked in, the guy that had brought him there.
Left the room.
He went through another door and left.
And the two that were there immediately grabbed onto him.
There was a chair and he started fighting them.
He says, I didn't want that.
He says, I was a strong guy back then.
You know, he's a lumberjack.
He says, there was nothing I could do.
They were so strong.
He says, they just put me down on this chair.
And all he remembers is the woman took this wireless apparatus, put it over his mouth, and he was out.
He was out and woke up.
When he did come to, he was.
On the road, uh, saw the craft naked, yeah, on his stomach, and he just remembers looking up.
The craft was right above him, and he says it just shot up.
He says, and the trees that were there went like it, like a vacuum, I guess, which is interesting because a lot of times trees don't move like that, yeah.
So it's interesting that he that he remembered that he remembered that, yeah.
Um, wow, that's I mean, even even the idea of him being on a mothership of some type, right?
Yeah, and You know, just that visual of, oh, there's like a control center, and there's like, I mean, that just makes it so real.
It makes it feel so real to me.
And that's a wild thing to leave out of the movie, by the way.
That's what I always said.
Maybe it just didn't make for like the perfect Hollywood story, I guess.
I guess.
You're like, what a weird tangent.
Human looking.
That's right, with fishbowls over their head.
You're like, this just looks weird.
Yeah, it sounds like Mars attacks or something.
Right?
Yeah.
They needed to make it more like dramatic and make the aliens mean or whatever.
But to this day, I mean, he's still.
He's still affected by this clearly.
So, you know, whether you're out there thinking, well, it could have just been this or this, this man, regardless of what anyone says, is clearly still affected by this.
Oh, yeah.
And it has consumed his entire life.
Oh, absolutely.
It has, to an extent, ruined his life because he was a lumberjack and now is no longer a lumberjack.
That's right.
You can't go back to lumberjacking.
You can't go back on something like that.
And then you met his brother and friends, I believe.
I met, no, I, myself.
Have you met his brothers?
No, I met.
Two of the, I know two of the other people, two of the other witnesses, the witnesses that were there, Mike Rogers, and I cannot remember the name of the other guy.
If you give me the names, I'll tell you which one.
And we've communicated very credible.
There's, even though the guys themselves had internal fighting between them, none of them went off track saying this didn't happen.
Right.
So what they saw from their point of view when this happened.
In the forest.
This happened in Sid Graves National Forest, I think it's called, right in Arizona, near Snowflake, Arizona.
And what they saw was a portion, was like a percentage of what he saw because he was inside the craft, but they saw it from the outside.
They all continue very, you know, to this day that they saw a flying saucer and it was one of them.
They all say it was beautiful.
Yeah.
They said it was a beautiful, like, thing to see.
It was glowing?
It was glowing, yeah.
Yeah, that's one thing I've heard as well in a lot of reports.
There is that, I don't know if you've heard that Logan Paul had this tape.
I actually got news on that.
I was actually, well, I don't know if Logan Paul got the tape.
He saw the tape.
Did he see the tape or did he record the tape or something about him having a copy or something?
Yeah, so from what I understood, because this was James Fox.
This is the first and last shout out Logan Paul is getting on this podcast.
Yeah, right?
Yeah.
Well, it was James Fox.
I think he was on Rogan talking about what happened.
And there's a guy called Chuck Clark who has this videotape.
Chuck Clark is a guy who, for a long time, lived at Up at Rachel near Area 51.
Important to say videotape.
Videotape, yeah, videocassette tape.
Right.
That's true.
Very important because it also degrades with time.
That's right.
Very important, yeah.
And he's not the person who filmed it.
There's two people who filmed it.
From what I understand, they're looking for those two people because I don't think those two people wanted to go public.
They were apparently in their car and they had the camera set on its side.
In the middle console, and suddenly a flying saucer came right over them, and there's like an orange light.
And then it goes, and you see this craft that's obviously the traditional disc shape, and it's wobbling.
It looks like it has skin or something glowing orange and stuff.
So, when Logan Paul reached out to this guy, apparently he offered this guy a ton of money.
I think it was like $100,000.
The guy said no.
And for a guy like that to say no, that means you're scared of something.
Yeah.
Right?
That's a lot of money.
So, that is a lot of money to say no.
Just to say, here's a videotape.
UFO video.
Right?
Yeah.
So, that says a lot right there.
Anyway, apparently, Logan Paul had a hidden camera and while they were watching it, recorded it.
But I don't think he ever went public showing it.
I think he could have gotten in trouble.
I'm not 100%.
All I know is that because I was dealing, because I'm working with Bob Lazar, there was a lot of people talking about Bob Lazar when that came out because they were like, you know, did Bob see that?
That's right.
Bob should see that.
So I immediately called Bob and I said, Did you hear about this?
He goes, Uh uh.
And then I explained.
And he said, I said, would you be interested in seeing it?
He goes, well, yeah.
He goes, of course, I don't mind, you know?
And, but he doesn't want to, he doesn't want, he just goes, I'm not going to comment on it, even if I see it.
He goes, maybe it's fake.
I don't want to, I don't know, right?
So I spoke to James Fox and he says, I can't, I don't have it.
So there was communication.
James said, if you want, you can reach out to Chuck Clark yourself and see what he says if he wants to make you see it.
Obviously, I was not going to be able to convince Bob to go see Chuck Clark because he lives in Arizona, if I'm not wrong.
So I said, I'm not going to waste anybody's time by calling them and then I can't do anything.
So I didn't bother.
And then when I later spoke to James Fox, he told me that there's a possibility that that video will go public soon.
How long ago was this?
Maybe three months ago.
Oh, wow.
Three, four months ago.
So who knows?
Interesting.
I would love to see that video.
I would too.
I've seen.
I've seen a video or picture online that had like a similar description of how it moved and the color.
I'm not sure if James Fox retweeted it or so.
I don't know if.
I don't think it's ever gone.
No, I don't think so.
But I think there was something similar to the description.
Ah.
And then people were asking, is this what you saw?
Is this what was on the tape?
And they were asking Logan Paul.
One of the things that I think is very honorable is the way James conducted himself throughout the whole time.
And I think that Chuck Clark really.
I think, I don't know if there's a relationship there where they know each other well, but all I know is that nobody really broke the code we're sharing, including Logan Paul, because otherwise we would have seen this thing by now.
Right?
So the good thing is that the chain of custody is still intact.
Yeah.
And I think that goes a long way.
If it comes out, there's no question that everybody's going to want to hear if Bob Lazar has seen it because it was out there.
Exactly.
Or Travis.
Or Travis.
One of the things.
That I remember when I told Bob, I said apparently it was wobbling and it was orange.
Bob said, Well, that's interesting because that's what it does.
Ah, you know, out of all the cases, you got Bob Lazar, we got Travis Walton, but then there are like some other really important cases in the UFO business, one being the Ariel school.
So the Ariel incident happened back September 16th, 1994, in a place called Rua in Zimbabwe, South Africa.
And it was around 10, 10 15 a.m., it was a primary school.
Where there's a whole bunch of kids studying there.
The really interesting thing about Ariel Primary School at the time was that the students that were there were from all over the world.
They were not just African kids that were going to that primary school.
There was a lot of war going on in Botswana and Zimbabwe at the time.
It was horrible stuff happening.
There was like genocide happening.
So there was a lot of people from the Salvation Army.
There were pastors going in there trying to help the communities out there.
So when they would go out there, they had kids.
They had to send their kids to school.
Right.
And that, Was the reason why Ariel had such a diverse group of kids from all over the world, from Australia, from Great Britain, from Canada, US, everywhere.
So that's interesting in itself because that was a very rare thing in 1994 in South Africa to have these kids from all over the world.
It makes that school a little bit special.
Exactly.
So it's cool that that's something to note, right?
And basically, The kids all went outside, and there's this huge playground there.
They're playing.
There's what the teachers or the people who built the school grounds did there's the school, and there's this huge field, and they made a perimeter out of wood, like tree trunks.
So they would take trees, cut them down, and they would throw the tree trunks down, and it was like the wood barrier, the tree trunk barrier.
So the kids knew not to play outside of the perimeter of where, you know.
The logs.
They called them the logs, right?
So suddenly they're playing and they hear the super high pitched sound.
They see a flash.
Not all the kids saw this, but the kids heard this.
They look up and they see a few objects in the sky, silver objects in the sky.
One of them, like a silver disc looking object.
And one of them, there was a.
Some people saw one, other people saw three, and other kids saw more.
Okay, so it all depends on their perspective, which is really interesting.
And one of them, or from what I understand, I have to go by the accounts of the people I know.
Yeah.
Okay, so I know there's kids who saw three land.
The people I spoke to, they saw one.
Okay, and they saw it clearly, and it landed.
And there's two beings that came out of it.
And from a distance, now keep in mind, this didn't land right next to them.
So some of the kids said it looked like a rock from far away.
Right, like a shiny rock.
Like a shiny rock.
But they knew that that rock wasn't there before that.
So there's these two beings that came out.
So some of the kids were super intrigued and ran towards this thing, while other kids got so scared and ran away from it.
So, you got to remember different perspectives, and these are like 62 kids that are out there.
Actually, 62 kids got interviewed, but there was way more than 62.
And the ages were varying between 7 to 14 years old.
So, 7 to 13, something like that.
I mean, just, I mean, insane that they would all lie about the same thing.
Yeah, that doesn't happen.
That isn't a factor here.
They saw something, what they saw, we don't know, but we know it wasn't a mass hallucination or a lie.
Not at all.
Yeah.
Exactly.
So, they get to eventually, as they're getting closer, now there's, Two of those kids that the two that I know, two girls, one of them is her name is Emily Trim, the other one is Liesl Field.
They were side by side playing what they called jumping on the logs, hopping on the logs.
So, what they did is they had a competition where they would run from one log jump to the other log and do the whole turn of the printer.
That was their game.
So, they were kind of further out because they were running on the logs, and there were kids that were there but a little further away.
So, I can speak on the fact that I know both of them and I got their versions.
Of their story, I've spoken to other kids as well, but I don't know those kids as much as I know Emily and Liesl.
And they got to a point where, as they were running around on the logs, Emily clearly remembers looking to her right.
And she says there were two beings that were mimicking.
They were, first of all, right next to them.
And they were big black eyes, big heads, very thin bodies.
Jumpsuits.
Well, you see, what's interesting is Emily remembers that being their skin, while Liesl remembers it being a jumpsuit.
And what's interesting there as well is that when we did the remote viewing thing, Joe McMonagall said that these beings that he saw on Mars or whatever also had this skin fitting suit.
That you couldn't tell if it was their skin or not.
And they were like silk, though.
It was like this fine, fine, fine material that didn't have wrinkles.
Well, actually, it's interesting because Emily remembers it being like a reptile.
Oh.
So she clearly remembers.
She says, not only does she remember the body, it was black.
By the way, they were wearing black.
If it was a skin suit, if it was a suit, it was black.
And if it was their skin, it was black.
Right.
But Liesl remembers the face being white.
Okay, which is very interesting.
Yeah.
But wearing a black jumpsuit.
Yeah.
Now, Emily clearly remembers.
She says, I remember whatever they were wearing was black and looked like a reptile.
Yeah.
And she says, as they were moving, the sun was shining on it.
So it shimmered.
Like, you know how you sometimes see like a scale of a serpent, like a snake?
It could shimmer with the light and change its colors almost.
She says, that's what it kind of did.
So she saw that because it was sunny that morning.
And this was beside them?
They were running on the logs.
So keep in mind, the girls are, first of all, they're like eight, seven or eight years old.
So they're small.
And they're on top of these logs.
The two beings were right at the same height.
She says they were not touching the ground.
They were floating.
They were floating.
She clearly remembers that they were this much off the ground and that when they jumped, the beings jumped.
Wow.
So is it her perception or were they doing that?
That's hard to know.
We don't know.
Yeah.
And so the girls stopped and these two beings.
Approached and Emily was to the right, Liesl was to the left, and she remembers.
I've spoken to both of them, so I'll start with Emily.
Remembers receiving like instantly looking into the eyes, and she says it was if you took a big picture book and you just flip the pages super fast, and you're all these images are just in her mind, they're just coming in like so.
She says it was like an overwhelming amount of stuff, and the last image was an explosion, whoa, like a nuclear explosion.
Oh my god, and Eliso remembers the telepathic communication about the planet, huh, something about.
All the trees would all go down, and that people were dying, they couldn't breathe.
And something about we have to tend to the planet, tend to the water, tend to the air, air and water was super important.
Which, look, in respect to the fact that this is a very strange occurrence, the fact that, and now keep in mind, these two witnesses, these two girls that received these messages, Emily received messages about technology.
Yeah.
So, did the other kids.
Yeah.
Now, they weren't as, they weren't right there.
I remember those interviews saying, yeah, we have to calm down on technology.
About technology, about the planet, and all that.
Now, these children, these kids at the time, this is not common talk.
It's not curriculum.
Not only is it not curriculum, but I mean, I'm born in the 70s, grew up in the 80s.
1994 in rural Africa, in the middle of a genocide, you're not talking about saving.
The planet and recycling your cans.
No, dude, we were still throwing stuff out the window.
And that's a good point to make, is because that stuff didn't come up in our schools until in the 2000s and later.
Even I was in high school when I graduated in 2001, and we never really learned.
We learned reduce, reuse, recycle, and that was about it.
That's it.
That was about it.
We didn't learn about global warming.
We didn't learn about any of this stuff.
So this is way ahead.
Way before.
Yeah.
So the fact that the kids, Say they saw these creatures, the fact that they saw the craft, the fact that they explained how all this happened, how they behaved, and then that they received these telepathic messages all at the same time, that the messages were pro environment, be careful about.
Emily remembered getting a message.
She says, There's a good way of using technology, there's a bad way of using technology.
You could do better.
That's the message she got.
Wow.
So think about that as you're eight years old.
Why would you think that?
Why would that be, you know?
What are you, Greta Thunberg?
What's going on?
You know, there's Emma, who is also, she's in the, you see Emma a lot in Encounters on Netflix.
You could watch that, where when she was a little girl, she's interviewed and she's saying, we shouldn't get too technologed, which is an interesting term from a child, you know, like you shouldn't get too technologed, which means we have to be careful about technology.
Why would beings approach children?
And why would kids, first of all, man, if these kids made this up, they're the best I've ever seen.
I mean, there's just no way.
No, I remember seeing this, and even the drawings that all these children were putting together.
And here's the funny part there are some people out there that will look at the drawings, the 50 odd drawings of all these crafts, different crafts, different alien type drawings.
And some people out there are comparing them and being like, look, these don't even look the same.
It's like you're missing the picture.
Yeah.
Exactly.
These are kids who all drew UFOs and aliens.
Yeah, that's a big deal.
I don't even care if they don't look alike.
That's right.
Dude, that is crazy.
Yeah.
And the number of drawings, what's interesting, I highly recommend people.
There's three places you could follow up on this.
One of them, the first one I recommend, is a documentary made by a guy called Randall Nickerson called Aerial Phenomenon.
Yeah.
So it's A R I E L, so Ariel Phenomenon.
Highly recommend that documentary.
Second one is The Phenomenon by James Fox.
Oh, The Phenomenon by James Fox.
The last segment is on Ariel, which is very well done.
And now on Netflix, there's one of the four is called Encounters, exactly.
And one of them is about the Ariel incident.
So all three of those are really well done.
And you get to see the reality of what happened.
Yeah.
And obviously, you could YouTube this and you get to see a lot of what John Mack, he was.
The guy who reported on interviews.
Yeah.
Not only did he interview them, but he like psychologically analyzed them.
Yeah.
The guy was the head of psych, he was the head of the psychiatric department of Harvard.
I mean, this guy was like legit, very legit, right?
And he took this extremely seriously and took these kids' accounts seriously and said they saw something.
Were they approached by, I might be conflating this one and the one that happened in Australia.
Were they approached by the Air Force afterwards?
No, that's the one in Australia.
That's the one in Australia.
I, I do know that there was something that did happen at Ariel afterwards.
Where they were like, shut the hell up?
I don't think it was a shut the hell up.
I think from having spoken to Randall, and Randall probably would be the best person to talk to about this, something about the State Department of the United States government showed up at Ariel.
Right.
And he knows a lot about that.
Yeah.
Maybe they investigated.
Maybe they.
Exactly.
So I don't know what that was all about, but the fact that the State Department showed up is crazy.
Kind of interesting because why would they show up if nothing happened, right?
So there's also pilots that are commercial pilots that actually had the objects on radar.
Wow.
So it's not just the kids talking, right?
And thousands of witnesses around Rua who saw this, the craft.
It was within a few days, I think.
That's right.
Not just that day.
It was leading up to this.
Correct.
Yeah.
So there was, now there was a meteor shower.
At a certain point, there was a meteor shower that happened, from what I understand.
So there's, There's this like a crossover where there was a meteor shower and then there were actual sightings.
So you could just imagine back then where this was completely insane to talk about this.
As soon as you hear, oh, there was a meteor shower, oh, it's just a meteor shower.
Of course.
You know what I mean?
But it wasn't.
Yeah.
Just something else happened.
So clearly a meteor shower doesn't land.
It doesn't land and there's no people that come.
Yeah.
That's the whole thing.
That's the difference.
In case you were wondering out there.
Actually, one of the things I want to say is when I first asked Emily about it and just what she said.
Says a lot about how a kid thinks, and it's it made me realize it's true.
I would have probably thought the same thing.
She says, When I first saw them to my right, she goes, 'I was trying to figure out what kind of animal that was, right?' Which humans, which makes sense because you're not thinking this is an alien, yeah, you're thinking, 'Oh my god, you know, is that an animal?' Like, so that's that's important because that's exactly what the kids thought wasn't, 'Oh my god, an alien.' No, they were like.
What kind of animal is that?
Startled by just something different.
And then I think, yeah, probably like sitting down with that idea for a few minutes, that's probably where their mind started like coming together and be like, oh my God.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, they're standing, they're floating.
They're, you know.
That's just, that's just one of the most credible instances of a mass sighting that's ever existed in modern history.
Absolutely.
That we've documented.
I think the only, you know, the only thing that we're missing from that is actually.
Footage of all that happening, but aside from that, like I mean, like you said, there's pilots who picked it up, there's people around town who've seen it, yeah.
Um, and you know, I think with back then, too, what was really tough to deal with was you had uh skeptical parents, oh, big time, and that was that was dramatizing.
That might have been like the biggest uh detriment to this whole story, from what I can gather, is the parents being like, shut up, you'll sound crazy, yeah, you didn't see that.
Well, that's you know, kind of, yeah, and the teachers said it, the parents said it, and so they're all.
Making these children think that they hallucinated this, and now these kids think they're crazy a little bit because they're like, Well, I did see it, so I guess it's my brain.
Yeah, that's probably the most unfortunate thing to happen.
It was, it was like, if you see all these documentaries and you read about all this, the kids went through like some really rough stuff.
It was rough, yeah, it's because they were told to shut up about it instantly, not from like some government cover ups, no, it's from the parents, from the teachers.
It's like you had to go back to school and just.
Go in the classroom and keep.
Imagine going to school the next day.
I mean, gosh.
You know, it's like, and pretend none of this happened.
I know that, you know, Emily comes from a very religious background.
Her parents are both pastors.
This was not easy for her because in the house or in her family unit, that and her brother was also a witness, by the way.
He was there and he was an older kid.
He was certainly there, very affected by this, very affected.
He's actually never talked publicly about this and doesn't want to, which I respect enormously.
He was actually more traumatized than Emily was, according to what I understand.
Because he could process it more.
He was older.
That's right.
Yeah.
And so the fact that this.
Was not being accepted in the household was a secondary trauma because it's like you saw that, and then the people you rely on the most are telling you, No, this didn't happen.
Yeah.
Oh my gosh.
Yeah.
That is, especially as a child, that's got to be really hard to hear.
So that's right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's, you know, that's, that's, and the whole religion thing.
And here's what's really interesting about the time we're living in now because more and more, if you look back into the history books, because there are sightings that date.
Hundreds of years ago.
And a lot of times these sightings are chalked up to be some type of religious intervention or some chariots of fire or God descending on us or whatever it is.
And so if you read the context of a lot of the, I mean, there's chariots of the God, if you read into a lot of those things, it really puts in perspective hey, change angels and demons into just extraterrestrial, change.
This chariot of fire, this angel of fire descending into a light in the sky, not even on fire, just a light.
Right.
Because that's how they would have described it.
Described it.
That's right.
And, you know, the closer we get to modern times, I think now the conversation of UFOs and extraterrestrials are jumping more from these demons into, oh, ETs and whatnot.
Because if you look at what happened in Virginia, that's interesting.
In Brazil as well, where you had not only a mass sighting, By the way, to this day, people still in that town.
James Fox did an amazing documentary on that.
He did.
I highly encourage you guys to go check it out.
It's called Moment of Contact.
That's right.
Yeah.
Incredible documentary.
Very good.
One of the best documentaries I've seen in years because the witnesses are still alive.
This happened in 96.
Yep.
Which is amazing.
Incredible.
Yeah.
And there's still, as I've heard, it's still information coming out about this.
Oh, yeah, I know.
That will come out.
Yeah.
Hopefully.
I hope so too.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But what's really interesting about this is that, like, there are these three girls who are sisters, I believe, and they were, I mean, so many things.
Watch the documentary, but the smell of ammonia or whatever it was in the air, the sulfur.
Yeah.
And even that, the smell of sulfur throughout this whole town, everybody from the people in the hospital who said that they treated this extraterrestrial to these little girls to everyone in town said it smelled like this sulfur.
Now, how do you describe the devil smelling like in these religious texts?
The sulfur smell.
Sulfurics.
That's right.
And we always associate that, you know, so you can find these common threads.
And then, um, the mother of these three children, uh, in this documentary, uh, when the, when, you know, when the children can hurt, she immediately said, it's a demon.
She believed it's her children.
Yeah.
She believed that her children saw this creature, right?
Uh, with her background, she was like, this is a demon.
This is a devil, uh, creature.
She didn't jump to extraterrestrial.
That's right.
Well, because that's what they know.
Yeah.
I mean, it's, it's kind of a, it's, it, It is completely logical, especially like a place like Brazil, where the religious people are very religious as well.
So the concept of an extraterrestrial is so far fetched.
Yeah.
That although a devil is far fetched, not as far fetched as an extraterrestrial, which blows my mind.
But that's reality to them.
Right.
You know, it's just a matter of time before you see a devil or a demon or something.
Like, it's very much a reality.
One of the things about Virginia, which I find really interesting, is the fact that, and I really hope that either James Fox or whoever's doing the research gets, there's apparently a video of the creature in a hospital or something on a table.
Because that's what they decided.
One of the guards described that when he was doing the X ray, they brought in this tiny body bag.
That's right.
And he wasn't allowed to look at the X ray.
That's right.
Which is the first time that's ever happened.
The army shooed him out of the room.
They did the X ray.
They collected the X ray.
That's right.
And there were guys with guns and there was a guy in there with this giant camera.
Yeah, sort of camera recording instrument.
For sure they have that.
So they have footage.
There is footage out there apparently.
Now, remember also that there were two people that showed up.
To see the mother of these three girls and try to get the money.
Yeah.
And she obviously said no.
And when they went out, she looked and they were gone.
No license plates.
No, nothing, which is interesting.
And that the guy who was at the end of the film, I believe, is one of the guys who was the drivers.
Drivers or something.
Yeah.
That says that they had an airplane fly in to Virginia and then they took a helicopter to Las, I can't remember the name, but they loaded whatever it was, brought it back, loaded it on the plane.
And there was a US Air Force, USAF.
And left.
Now, you know, you're in Brazil.
Now, the United States Air Force conducting an operation in Brazil, that says a lot.
Yeah.
Okay.
That's the huge thing right there.
What the hell are you doing there?
In Virginia.
Yeah.
And that they let you.
Yeah.
Because, you know, if tomorrow morning, like if that, in 1994, if a Russian aircraft landed in Virginia.
Yep.
You would hear about it on CNN.
That's right.
But a U.S. Air Force big.
Yeah.
Plane shows up.
Nobody says anything.
Something's going on.
And I certainly hope that somebody comes, you know, forward with some type of documentation.
One thing I do know is this is about Brazil.
It's a very dangerous place.
Yeah.
Okay.
As much as it's beautiful, it's one of the most dangerous places.
Yeah.
So I understand the reluctancy of the people of not wanting to talk.
Yeah.
Because it doesn't take much to get you.
You know, yep, deleted.
Yep, so the fact is, something happened.
Uh, obviously, something was brought away and it was brought to the United States.
Yep, so it's sitting somewhere, yeah.
I mean, even, even the um, there was even someone who described you know, uh, walking into the room, seeing three of the doctors kind of like in shock, yeah, because they're looking at looking in a box, and he sees these two feet come out of this like box, and these feet had like three toes or whatever, two toes, or um, I mean.
What the hell?
You know, and then the person who apparently, allegedly, when these creatures were running around town after this crash of a cigar shaped object, by the way, that had this alloy that just kind of like bounced back to what it was.
Isn't that interesting?
It is, because you hear that elsewhere as well.
Something that I actually wanted to talk to, I have to show you.
I wanted to talk to James Fox about, I'm sure he knows about this, but this came to me.
Do you remember what the description was of the creatures?
Do you remember?
What they looked like.
Yeah, they had like bumps on their head.
They were red eyes.
So let's say you write Virginia alien.
So you've got the Virginia alien, which looks like this, kind of like this little.
It looks like a demon.
Yeah.
Okay, let's say what it.
Okay, now check this out Harlequin baby.
This is a human deformation of.
This is a human deformation.
So this has nothing to do with aliens.
This is absolutely human.
Okay.
So this is what a harlequin baby looks like.
Huh.
Yeah.
Now, this is an allergic reaction.
Look how Google doesn't show you anything anymore.
Right.
Yeah.
You know, so harlequin babies have very similar.
Wow.
Similar traits.
Similar traits.
Now, this is anybody who wants to Google harlequin baby and then Virginia alien.
Yeah.
The reason why I brought that up is not because I think that's what it was.
Yeah, there's a harlequin baby running around.
I read about harlequin baby disease and it's a.
It's a reaction to our atmosphere that the kid is having.
Ooh.
Isn't that interesting?
That is very interesting.
Okay.
Because this creature apparently felt like it was in danger, too.
So maybe.
There is a reaction to the creature from our atmosphere.
And that would make sense because when the officer who inevitably died from picking up this.
He touched it and there was like an oily filament slime on it or whatever, and he brought it into the hospital.
That's right.
His name was Marco something.
Yeah.
And that guy on the autopsy said died of general infection.
Quickly unknown.
Within a day, he was dead because he touched whatever this was.
Yeah.
For him to bring it into the hospital means that he thought it was sick.
Exactly.
Isn't that interesting?
That is really interesting.
Wow.
So I was, I remember, I don't remember how the Harlequin baby information came to me, but I found it and I thought, holy shit.
And I said, what causes that?
So if you had, yeah, if obviously if you crashed and, you know, your ship has some other part and you're having a reaction to our atmosphere.
Maybe that's why your eyes go all red and you start.
Because that was something that I did find weird that it was like red eyes.
I was like, Do they remember that correctly?
I was always doubting that.
So, you know, you have red eyes, which what happens to us when we have allergic reactions?
Our eyes get all red.
That's right.
Right?
Skin gets all rashed up while the oil comes.
Like maybe this thing was experiencing some serious atmospheric response.
Yeah, I really hope that's one of the most well documented cases of a mass sighting and a crash.
And like even after that, there were people in town reporting that there were like disc shaped objects like scanning.
Like, like, yeah, go flying around town, like scanning, yeah, looking perhaps for them, the survivors or whatnot.
Yeah.
But, uh, I mean, what a situation.
I mean, even the family getting, you know, offered to be paid off, uh, was one thing, but then there's other families that actually left.
That's right.
They even said they're like, yeah, they've been, they don't speak any other language other than Portuguese.
They, they up and left.
They're locals who didn't say bye and who just live somewhere else because what they were offered this family was, um, A whole new life.
Here's a bunch of money.
You just can't spend it here.
Yeah.
That's what they were told.
It's really interesting.
You know, Virginia to me is.
I remember when I had found out about it, I was super happy that James Fox was working on something like that because the guy does amazing work.
And I thought, well, this is really good that they're talking about Virginia.
Yeah.
Because it was like this, it was almost as if everybody was always talking about Roswell and, you know, the Phoenix Lights.
But I was like, Fucking Virginia is big and he did it and he did a great job.
So it is the Roswell of Brazil, and uh, people in Brazil.
I thought the most interesting part of that documentary was like the first five minutes where he's in town, yeah, and he's like, Let's just ask people what they think.
Hey, I love that.
Did this happen?
People were like, Oh, yeah, yeah, and they just kept walking.
I love that it was just so real and it was real, yeah, and it shows you the cultural difference.
Uh, yeah, whereas like they weren't afraid to say something happened, they were like, Yeah, we all know that even the mayor.
That's right.
Who didn't witness anything believes people.
And he's like, yeah, this happened.
We know something happened.
Which is great because you could clearly see that culturally they have an openness to this and how incredibly effective.
The system in, well, whether, you know, whether it's Europe or North America, where for years this was like taboo.
You could not talk about aliens, like you could not talk about pedophiles.
Like it's like, exactly.
You can't talk about it.
And it's like, you absolutely have to be like careful, don't say the word.
You never know who's.
And it's like, what is so dangerous to have a.
And if you are, if we are to look at this phenomenon, whether it be.
What happened in Virginia, what happened at Ariel, what happened at Area 51.
If we are to look at this with a scientific analytical method, methodology, it is not scientific nor is it intelligent to dismiss something.
Yeah.
I mean, what if science would just dismiss the existence of Phobos, the moon around Mars, because?
They don't feel like it's important.
Well, you're going to miss out on some pretty serious gravitational effects on the planet.
And it takes people to, you know, it takes people like yourself.
It takes people like James Fox.
It takes people, you know, to push that because if you don't push enough, it will go away.
Right.
You look at Phoenix Lights, what happened there.
It was a complete opposite reaction with their mayor.
Yeah.
He came up and just dressed up as an alien.
That's right.
Who now regrets that, by the way?
The governor.
He absolutely regrets that decision.
He wanted to light.
He didn't actually, it wasn't a, Conspiracy or anything, yeah.
It was just a joke, yeah.
He wanted to let the moon, yeah.
Wrong reaction, right?
Because now he's laughing at all these people.
Um, but there are people, you know, if you look in physics and all the great uh discoveries we've had in physics, those didn't come easy when Einstein was talking about the theory of relativity.
That's right.
You know, there were hundreds of people who were ready to shut him down.
I mean, look at Galileo, I mean, he's the one that said the sun is at the center, yep.
And everybody thought that he was like, you know, possessed by the devil, and it's like.
Well, it ends up the sun is in the center.
Eventually, we're all going to agree on this.
Right.
That's the thing.
It's like we're now in a very bizarre time where we can't really all agree on something.
But I think, you know, if we look back in history, we're not going to remember the time that people were on the fence about the earth being round.
Right.
We're going to remember when the earth was flat and then it was round.
And I think the same is going to happen with UFOs.
Yeah.
That's right.
We're going to, and I think it'll actually be more important than anything else, more important than finding out the world is round.
Oh, yeah.
It'll be.
You know, the day we make contact, I think it's going to be.
I think that's year zero.
Yeah.
You know, where we start to count it Jesus.
Yeah.
I think we're going to start counting there.
Yeah.
And you're going to be like, was this before contact or after contact?
That's right.
That's a very good point.
And then we'll all be on the same page finally.
You know, I think it's important that we also recognize one of the things about this year zero is, you know, they're here.
It's not just about.
Being told they're here.
Because this is something that I think about a lot, but I've given this a lot of thought.
And it's like, in order for that to become day zero, it has to be them that are here and not the government telling us they're here.
I think people will never really go to that point until they see it.
Through a living being.
Yeah.
And, you know, you got things like Project Bluebeam out there that claims like this is all, you know, holograms and whatnot.
Exactly.
Yeah.
And, you know, you can't fault them for thinking that way too because the government has, you know, they're not.
Done that.
Yeah.
They're not batting a thousand.
True.
They're lying about things.
Yes.
Pick and choose what you want, but they're obviously not telling the truth about everything all the time.
You know, so eventually, yeah, you're right.
This is.
This has to sort of happen in a way that doesn't involve them, which.
You know, I don't even know how that's going to happen.
Maybe another Ariel thing's going to happen, but we're all going to be filming it.
I remember at a certain point, I was just talking to somebody and they said, you know, like, well, what would make the difference between who would you believe most?
Yeah.
And I said, and this is, we were actually talking about Ariel.
I said, who would you believe if somebody put a gun to your head?
This is a really interesting question that I asked somebody.
Imagine you got a gun to your head and somebody says, You have like a split second decision, right or wrong, is either life or death.
Who would you believe?
An eight year old kid or a 45 year old lawyer from the White House?
Yeah.
Yeah.
An eight year old kid for sure.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
So it's like, how would that come to be?
How would that truth come to us where we accept it?
Would it come from the lawyer at the White House?
It's hard.
You know what I mean?
It's hard to believe anything.
Right.
It's true.
And even if you see it, You know, it's hard to believe it.
It's hard to believe that.
Even today, because they've killed us for it.
Yeah.
Or you could think it's faked.
You could be like, oh, look at how they did it.
You know, it's like, what's real?
Yeah.
What would it take?
You know, and I ask that a lot to people who are on the fence and I ask them what it would take.
And even they don't know.
Yeah.
For people who think, like, no, this isn't real, like, what would it take to convince you?
They don't know because they also know that, yeah, if the government told us.
Imagine if they showed up, I'm like, okay, what kind of VFX is this?
Yeah.
The only thing that I can say is if I base myself on what the kids experienced at Ariel in '94, all I can say is it's emotional.
What if something happened to each and every single one of us that has an emotional impact inside of us that we know?
Something just happened.
Now, I know that sounds like really far fetched because now we're getting into this, like, what?
Emotion.
But that's what happened.
So, what if it becomes emotional?
Yeah.
What if that translates through us through emotion?
Maybe that's the communication.
Well, you make a good point there because if you were described to describe love, right?
Loving someone, I could have a video of someone making out with someone.
That doesn't describe love.
No, it doesn't.
Them holding hands or going on a date doesn't describe love.
The only thing that can really describe it is really if you felt it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, you know, and if you have felt it, you know what that feeling is like.
That's right.
And you know that it is nothing compared to a video of someone falling in love.
There you go.
Yeah.
So I think that that's an interesting point to make.
Yeah.
All right, Luigi.
Well, I want to thank you so much, man, for joining me on this amazing podcast.
We got to talk about my favorite things in the world.
Guys, check out Luigi.
I'll leave all the links below where you guys can follow Project. Gravitor and all the stuff he's doing with Bob, really exciting stuff.
As well, we're going to work on some different projects here in Area 52, which he'll be involved in the future.
And I look forward to that.
Any final thoughts?
Any final things you want to say?
Anything you want to plug?
Oh, man.
Just check out Project Gravitor.
That's what I think is.
And our parent company, our parent is wearenotalone.com.
So check that out too.
Wearenotalone.com.
We'll leave the link below.
Thank you so much for joining us.
And we'll see you guys next time for another podcast on Debriefed.