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Feb. 8, 2000 - Bill Cooper
01:01:28
Waco – A New Revelation #1
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These are all of the time.
Lights out of the hole.
A kind of hopelessness, a kind of war of sin.
A kind of hopelessness, a kind of war of sin.
I'm William Cooper.
the you're listening to the over the time i'm william cooper
good evening ladies and gentlemen regardless of what you may think initially you have never
heard this broadcast before
of the hour of the time.
Pay very, very close attention.
You can hear Part 1 tonight and Part 2 tomorrow.
And on Thursday night I'll tell you where to get it.
And make sure that you do get it.
It's important.
You must see the video from which The audio of tonight and tomorrow night's broadcast is taken.
All of a sudden, in the middle of the night, there's a loud knock on the door.
Hey honey, something's not right.
Things don't go as fast as they do.
We're here for the government.
We're here to help you.
And I'm from the I.R.S.
with a power to touch!
If you've got a complaint, then you're the best!
Get out of this house.
Turn your back.
Give me your gold.
You better obey my rule.
Answer the door, sir.
Thank you for your help.
They were up here yesterday.
They were up here yesterday and today in their little white fedmobile and their little red fedmobile.
So if anything happens to me, remember, I was murdered.
Ike sentenced Lucifer, his god, across this land, and couldn't say he'd hit the mark until right here.
While we're all dancing to the drums of the four of Rikes, Sentence prepared it for another useless act of Ike.
Order out of chaos, depression, inflation, create the panic, then raise the nation.
Crisis creation.
Incite black and whites.
Program adaptation.
Don't miss this!
Here's the rumors!
A new end in white and brown.
The A.P.M.
for men and blacks from the one world war.
But it's not new.
Iron Mountain, Computer Beast, and Cattle New Ladies.
Black Projects, UFOs, and we're just any combination.
The Nazi doctors didn't die?
Come on, get him!
They came here with the O.F.S.
through Operation Saber Slip.
National ID?
Debit card?
Yeah.
Vaccination biochips, milk carton kits, genetic engineering.
Clinton says her health plans for you and your own good.
Sure!
And Adolf Hitler's Robin Hood.
This is a test for all of us.
So I have today just one simple request.
This is creation.
Organic.
Biochip implantation.
Vaccinate your kids for UN identification.
This is a test for all of us.
So I have today just one simple request.
A comprehensive package of health care benefits
that are always there and can never be taken away.
And, uh, at this hearing
Socialusion.
Media hype.
Plan confusion.
Masonic religion.
It's a liar, not your friend, who is a Syrian Messiah.
The Illuminati thinks that they're enlightened.
That they're to be the gods of Earth.
born of incest from the sons of Satan, and they cease to be sins of time and earth.
Hidden agenda!
Kissinger, Nixon, Ford, and Bill.
While your kids out back smokin' crack for some cheap thrill.
They've numbed us down and dumbed us down with fluoride TV drugs, the NEA, and public school.
Say, taking your brightest and our best, and being public figures.
With many media brain-bending lies and filth, the banks that have stolen your wealth.
Johnson, Bush, Carter, Reagan, Gore, and Dan.
They've all been pushing pipes.
Let's find a massive land border.
Road Scholar, Oriental Clinton speaks and enriches the nation.
Hello, I'm Dr. Frederick Whitehurst.
I was employed by the FBI for 16 years as an agent, the last 12 of those years at the FBI Crime Laboratory in Washington, D.C.
After reviewing the results of a six-year investigation into the tragedy at Waco, Texas,
I am convinced that the American people have never been told the full truth about that matter.
So, I am going to share with you the story of the tragedy that took place at Waco, Texas, and the story of the
tragedy that took place at Waco, Texas.
The story of the tragedy at Waco, Texas.
Having served with the FBI's constant negotiation team during this crisis, April the 19th would mark the end of one of my days and the beginning of another.
A new revelation.
None knows me.
My life was about to change forever as I would come to know what failure is.
The day I saw the gates of hell.
I saw the gates of hell.
Holding a tile in your hands that lost its light in a fire where the temperature has reached in excess of 3,000 degrees is something that pierces my heart.
April 19th, turned the TV on and there I saw the tanks ramming into the front of the building and the fire shooting out and it was just...horrifying.
My mom said, you know, they told us about that fire and she said, they said, my daddy and my brothers and my sisters were gone.
Things will be set straight.
People will know the truth of things.
Today, two subcommittees undertake historic joint hearings on executive branch conduct that led up to the events at Waco, Texas in 1993.
In human terms, these hearings are about a tragic loss of life.
Four brave young law enforcement officers lost their lives on February 28, 1993.
A planned raid went badly and off course.
These four agents, dedicated and proud, deserve our full respect.
They did not choose to die, but like many others in the law enforcement community, they chose to serve.
But this is a complex event.
On April 19, 1993, after a 51-day siege, Other decisions led to the use of so-called CS gas and a fire broke out.
The fire rapidly consumed the entire Davidian compound, killing all 22 innocent children and more than 60 adults.
The truth behind that part of the tragedy is also important and is the obligation of those who have responsibility for oversight to pursue the truth relentlessly.
The French Davidians were a Seventh-day Adventist, or a sect of Seventh-day Adventists.
They were an offshoot.
Developed first in California, under the leadership of Victor Hotta, who moved to Waco in 1934-35.
Founded a community called Mount Carmel.
His followers, in turn, moved to the location we know in the early 60s.
If you once get to know these people, They're different from you and me.
They're more religious than you and me.
They know the Bible better than you and me.
They lived apart from the rest of us.
They lived in a manner different than the rest of us.
They had different marriage customs and different property practices than the rest of us have.
and they had a religion that was absolutely incomprehensible to most Christians.
Well, there were people from all walks of life, various nations, and
a lot of them came from England.
They were colored people as well as white people.
The majority of those people in there were not criminals in the sense of the word that we think about them.
They were truly believing people.
I believe 99% of those people, their sole purpose was the attainment of eternal life, which is, after all, what I believe all of us that, you know, at least that are Christians believe in.
The Branch Davidians believe, first of all, that as the remnants of the true faith, they would be attacked by a hostile army representing an apostate government.
Babylon, they called it.
That it was their religious duty to defend the faith.
In 1992, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms began an investigation into David Koresh for the possession of illegal firearms.
They formed a dynamic entry plan to secure the premises and seize illegal weapons with approximately 100 federal agents and 3 helicopters, which would ultimately cost the lives of 4 ATF agents and 6 branch civilians.
On February 28th, 1993, at approximately 9.40am, ATF agents while attempting to execute a woman were met with heavy gunfire by a group of individuals occupying a compound approximately 10 miles northeast of Waco, Texas.
The group is identified as the Branch Division.
A gunfight broke out that would become the longest shootout in American law enforcement
history.
According to the ATF, their men pulled up to Mount Carmel, piled out of their cattle trailers, went running towards the door, guns pointed, shouting, police, search warrant, lay down.
According to them, David was standing at the front door, unarmed, and he shut the door when they started running towards him, and the next thing the ATF knew, it says, it was receiving gunfire from inside of Mount Carmel, in particular from behind that front door.
He knew law enforcement was coming, and he was so diabolical that he laid an ambush David Koresh expresses this.
He says in this tape that he went out on his porch.
He said, stop, there's women and children in here.
And a shot rang out and hit the door to the right.
That door, he says, kicked.
I went running down the hall and found Perry Jones laying in the hall, screaming that he'd been shot.
Perry Jones was in his 60s.
He was unarmed.
As was David Koresh when they went to the front door.
Both were shot in the area of the front door.
David was shot in the wrist.
Perry Jones was shot in the stomach.
And then he says, if you don't believe me, look at the video tape.
I know you have that tape, he says.
I saw you making it across the road.
According to the agency, there were three or four video cameras pointed at the front door to tell you everything that happens at the front door of that building that day.
They claim they can't find a single one of them.
Every one of those videotapes vanished.
In addition to the missing videotape, the ATF's on-scene activity logs also disappeared.
I'm sorry, sir.
I guess you mentioned that notes were torn out of the surveillance log.
I was just wondering, how does that happen?
I don't know, sir.
I've never heard that before.
My dad's name is Terry Jones.
He was an unarmed man.
And you guys just shot through the door and killed him.
Thanks a lot.
The battle steroids was one of the first ones to the door, officer battle steroids, he was
an ATF agent.
And they had a plan that if the dogs came up to attack them when they came to the front door, they were to shoot the dogs, kill the dogs.
And he testified at a pre-trial hearing that, in fact, they did fire and shoot the dogs at that time.
It didn't take much of a spark to get a war going.
I remember gun shooting through the windows.
you Our room was shot up completely.
I did my best at getting the kids under the bed.
All of a sudden now there's, I don't know how many, 50, 70, I don't know, 100 people outside.
But at some point before I got Jake and Brian under the bed, Bullocks came flying in my room.
We're a law enforcement agency.
We don't fire through walls indiscriminately at people.
I greatly feared that they would come in, they would open that door, and even though I didn't have a gun, it wouldn't
matter, that they would shoot me in the head.
They had already shot at me through the window.
I had no clue what was going on.
The government tried to say that everybody, they could put a gun in everybody's hand at the beginning and during the
raid, and that's not true.
to my...
Most people were unarmed.
There were a few that had guns, and I admit that.
And there were probably those that reacted to seeing David and Perry and others gunned down who responded by firing back.
But it was not a general ambush.
They would like you to believe.
I am in sympathy with the families of those that lost, the families of the four agents that died.
I know what they're going through.
We lost a lot of friends and a lot of our families.
I lost a daughter inside Mount Carmel.
After about two hours, they had a real truce.
It wasn't a pretty sight.
I mean, there were grown men crying all around.
There was a group of guys that were down on their knees and they were praying.
Very disturbing, you know, type thing.
I don't think the deaths on either side were justified, as well as those wounded.
Judy Snyder was shot while nursing her baby through the chest.
Get my battery, Don.
I'm going to get my battery behind the bus.
Get the battery behind the bus.
Immediately following the APF raid, the branch civilians were charged with murder
murder and conspiracy to commit murder of federal agents.
A year later, the jury found all the Branch Davidians not guilty of both charges.
Since the initial February 28th raid, a review is before federal court to determine if the ATF used excessive force while serving the search warrants.
Sir, I've got a hit and shot.
Get the hell off of here.
I'll get off the property.
That's what I'm doing, sir.
Have a little respect.
I am, sir.
I am.
You could have arrested me any day as I jog up and down this road.
You could have arrested me going to town or going to Walmart.
All this stuff you guys may want to avoid and deny.
And I do not appreciate it and never will I ever appreciate somebody coming here and pushing people around with guns.
Hey, I'll meet you at the doorstep any day.
You know, and somebody will get hurt.
If you want to keep playing that game, I'm talking to you.
Somebody's going to get hurt.
hurt. Because this ain't America anymore when the ATF has that kind of power to come into
anybody's home and keep doors down and things like that.
The federal agents said they are headed back to the house.
So this thing is not over by a long shot.
And the only way that this is going to end is for all of the people inside to die or to surrender, Brad.
I was walking out.
There wasn't any room in the car.
I was walking out, there wasn't any room in the car, and when they saw me, they just swarmed
on me.
I've got to turn that down, folks, because the BATF are using terrible obscenity as they literally beat this television cameraman within an inch of his life.
They just beat him and beat him and beat him simply because he was doing his job and he was recording what was actually going on.
The BATF used the most foul language I think I've ever heard and I spent a lot of years in the Navy.
And they just beat this man.
I said, no.
I said, I understand them.
I was their first visit.
At this point, we were surrounded.
At this point, we did not have a clue what the government, Gavilan in our opinion, was going to do in retaliation.
But we knew it wasn't going to be fun.
On the evening of February 28, while Mount Carmel is under siege, three Davidians not present during the gunfight try to return home to their families.
Two of the men are taken into custody, but Michael Dean Schroeder is killed.
They say that they stopped them and they asked for who they were or whatever.
I don't see how any of the ACF agents were close enough to ask him any questions.
Michael Schroeder's body is left in a ravine for five days, 300 yards from El Carmel.
According to the ATS statements, Schroeder refused demands to surrender and raised the pistol.
Eleven agents fired on Schroeder.
The autopsy report indicates that he had seven bullet injuries.
Why it takes so many fatal bullet wounds to knock somebody to the ground?
According to testimony, as the APF agents were walking away with their prisoner, leaving Mike later like a piece of meat, an APF agent stated that they heard two more gunshots.
Norman was ticked up.
He told the others when he was in jail with him, he said, after I surrendered, he said, they were taking me away.
He said, I heard two more shots off the desk.
I can't believe that somebody went back and shot Mark and Ed and I sure as a shit.
Schroeder's autopsy report also indicated that there were two entry wounds behind his right ear, only two inches apart.
The bullets passed through this blue stocking cap.
However, the stocking cap was not examined during the autopsy, nor was any forensic testing conducted before Schroeder's relatives had his body cremated.
I said, it's Mark Anderson.
It was seven days in as against him, and I would dress up as three.
There's a lot to answer for.
After the initial raid happened on February 29th, we got several phone calls in from the
ATF.
that said if they saw any movements inside the building, hands in front of the windows, if people were standing in front of the windows, that they felt that it was a threatening situation and that they would shoot at them.
On March the 1st, the F.D.I.
begins negotiations with the civilians.
Heavy military equipment is brought in and a stalemate begins that will last 51 days.
Several adults and children leave Mount Carmel and are transferred to ATF custody.
The children are turned over to Texas Social Services.
We have 21 children that have been released to our care thus far.
The youngest of those children is five months old and the oldest one is a 12 year old.
The children appear to be smart, Well-educated, very sharp children.
And they think you've been very well cared for.
In early March, we're actually promised to come out.
you But at the last minute, he believed that God had told him
to stay in, to wait.
During the siege, David Peres believed that the Nain prophecy was being fulfilled.
And which we believe, spiritually speaking, that's talking about the One World Order.
David Koresh believed that he was going to be the one that initiates the downfall of this One or New World Order.
The fall of Babylon the Great.
By sacrificing himself in this denomination.
The description of Minerva in the Book of Mayhem, David likened to the description of this country, being old, stagnant in its ways.
And the battle that takes place talks about his chariot being killed, being bloated and what's not.
He likened that battle to what took place on February 28th.
to read Nahum or Habakkuk, and you're in it.
You're experiencing it.
It all fits together.
It's all a conglomerate of different prophecies by different men at different times, talking about a world that is a great world.
These tanks are for solely defensive purposes, and they will not be armed.
We have no plans to assault the compound.
2,000 years ago, hey, who believes in Christ, don't you?
The man had to die, and no one would believe what he had to say.
So is there a lesson to be learned by looking back at the history of the prophets that came contrary to what people looked for?
Were they ever... They killed Isaiah, they killed Mashiach, they killed Zechariah, and Jesus came to say in Matthew 23 to the Jews, I want you to believe not all the prophets have spoken.
So you know, today it's all together just totally disregarded.
It's another religious fanatic, another religious group.
Ever since the rise of television, there's been a merger of news and entertainment.
Monster stories and fairy stories are good, simple entertainment.
Here you have media from all over the world flown in and expected by their home offices all around the world to produce a story every day.
I mean, the government could have just issued a press release every day and the media would have read it word for word over the air.
the air. That's how desperate it was.
What the public was seeing and hearing on TV during the siege demonized the people in
that church.
The ones that I met and knew, the survivors, were people that were basically just trying to get to heaven.
The world can hate us.
The world can laugh at us and taunt us.
That's all they want.
It wasn't 2,000 years to learn this book and it's been people all up until now who've been interested in it.
Now, people don't want the Bible anymore.
People don't seem to want to read the Bible, or, you know, they want to go to church and just be saved, you know?
And that's great, if that's how faith works, but if that is a will, and it is written in that book, the Spirit's written in the book through all the prophets, then there's a knowledge He wants us to know.
And the knowledge is here that's being revealed, and that's all I can say.
By March 24, 25 children under the age of 15 and approximately 54 adults remain inside the church compound as Steve Snyder negotiates with the FBI.
Let's reflect on this for a minute.
Why were they there in the first instance?
A good question.
They were there to serve and execute an arrest and search warrant.
They never said anything, not by a bullhorn, not by a knock at the door, not by any reason.
Not...
Register and execute an arrest and search warrant.
They never said anything, not by a bullhorn, not by a knock at the door, not by any reason.
Not by any reason.
Even before they got, just about the time they got to the porch is when David opened the door and poked his head out.
What we want to do, and what we will do, when the time is right, is we will process the crime scene there.
You know that.
We know that.
That wouldn't be so bad.
The biggest issue that I'd raise with you, Dick, is not that you would be here, even, or that the Texas Rangers, but I'm adamant about this part that the APS is playing.
The ones that came to this place, and when I heard on the press conference, the outright lies, and to think that that agency would be involved in any aspect of this from here on out blows my mind that that would even be allowed in America.
Well, Steve, let's face it.
There are some things that we will deal with when the time is right.
No, no, no!
If you start dealing with it now, Steve, we can come out!
I mean, that's one of the biggest reasons I have not been able to hurtle talking to the people getting them to come out, Steve!
Hey, Steve, why don't you and your family come out and end your handling these issues?
Okay?
Why don't we do that?
How am I going to handle them when I'll be shackled with their hands and feet and thrown in the field?
Who's going to hear?
Their asses?
Blood!
Come on, Stuart!
They'll put me in the jail.
Do you know why I'm still here?
After I'd been there a short period of time, they brought me in and actually a judge came and told me what I'd be in charge for.
And he said, you'll be in charge for murder, conspiracy to murder.
He said, a little bit, 100 years, 75 or 50.
They were assuring us that we would be cared for in a professional manner.
Then you turn around and you've got people that are flipping you the finger over top of the tanks.
They're dropping their drawers and burying their butt.
And these are the type of people that you're supposed to go out to.
I said, I had heard that you guys had blown off some of the windows there at Mount Carmel.
We've seen you, David, etc.
And I asked the agent, was this true?
And he said, yeah, it's true.
And I said, aren't you guys concerned about when this is over?
Believe me, you might see this and think it a little antagonistic on your part.
He just looked at me and walked away.
Everything flip-flopped from day to day.
You went through a feeling of being real hopeful to you sunk at the bottom again.
Because from day to day you never really knew what was going to happen, what the negotiations were going to be.
See?
Yeah.
There's been a change.
The technical people have Change the situation.
And for security reasons and for safety reasons, no one is now authorized to come out of there for any reason.
And what they're telling me is that if anybody does, they are going to be dealt with in such a fashion that the people will have to retreat back to the convict.
Did you hear that, folks?
Did you really hear what was just told to the Branch Davidians?
That they couldn't come out for any reason, even if they wanted to.
And the implied threat is that they would be shot.
When?
Oh, God, when will you wake up?
What?
I'm not... I'm missing, I guess, what you're saying.
Are you saying... Make it as plain as possible.
The patience of the bosses is no longer where it was earlier.
Okay.
I'm about ready.
Listen to me now, Henry.
I don't really give a butt to your bosses.
When you tell me one thing or you tell us that is okay and this Bradley comes up and says something contrary to what
you are, you tell your bosses to get their butts together.
Do you hear me?
Would you respond to the allegation that the reason why we had a wake up is because the FBI was in disarray?
It is obvious that from the time of the change in administration, it was very clear that there was a great discussion about the replacement of the director of the FBI.
In a March 11th letter to President Clinton, Acting Attorney General Stuart Gerson recommends that the President rely on other FBI leadership to resolve Waco and dismiss Director Sessions.
Chief among those mentioned in Gerson's letter is Assistant Director Floyd Clark.
This situation created a competitive environment for the directorship of the FBI in the midst of a major crisis.
I know this is a very political thing and I agree that With your observation that it could be that the FBI was impaired in stability.
Certainly I was impaired in my ability.
FBI Director William Sessions attempted to fly to Waco during the siege to conduct face-to-face negotiations with David Koresh, but he was impeded by government officials in Washington, DC.
The reason Bill Sessions never came to Waco during the siege was that The Justice Department refused to let him board this flight.
Everybody knows that I had contact directly from people associated with Mr. Koresh about the possibility of my going down and negotiating with them, coming in down there.
Now, some people played that as ridiculous and ridiculed it, or as grandstanding, but it's indicative of what I felt and continue to feel.
You can't discard any possibility That you can resolve that kind of circumstance when you can take and apply that negotiating capability.
The Justice Department wouldn't allow an FBI director to go and negotiate directly with a so-called terrorist who they felt had killed a number of federal agents, more or less, in cold blood.
In private deep use, a serious situation ended up in a calamity and a great embarrassment for the FBI and even greater embarrassment for law enforcement in general.
And it was all politics.
They were not about to see this standoff in Waco negotiated again because it was an opportunity for Floyd Clark and company to show that they were, were the FBI capable of handling the standoff and coming out Winning in this kind of an incident with military kind of tactics.
It was a paramilitary organization.
Maybe you might ask them if you can have some ice cream too.
Can I have some ice cream?
little broadly there. Right now you're considered a big terrorist, you know, and you can demand
some important things like an ice cream or something, you know, maybe they might adhere to you.
By late March, the FDR has cut off electricity to the compound and is preparing a series of
military tactics to force a resolution. A direct quote from the transcript where it is said by
a negotiator, two minutes are correct, we had a very good dialogue last night.
The electricity will not go off tonight because we've had a good dialogue this evening.
That's the negotiator to Mr. Koresh.
A half an hour later, no I'm sorry, the negotiator to Mr. Steve Schneider.
A half an hour later, the lights have turned off and left off permanently.
The electricity shut off.
Why?
I can't answer the why, but I can tell you that the negotiation team was disappointed
in that decision.
Since mid-March, negotiations have begun to fail, and the FBI resorts to psychological
warfare.
I appreciate the music.
Yeah?
I think it might be needed.
I thought you being a teenager, you might, uh, write some of those, uh, Martian songs.
My little sister actually.
Oh, I see.
Well, it's the dying degrees of hell with noise, music, Bright lights.
The children were suffering along with the adults.
We were without water.
Having had our water tanks shot up, we were living on rainwater.
Whenever it would rain, people would put buckets out the window and collect rainwater.
It was rationed.
I doubt whether anybody got more than eight ounces a day, if that.
How long do you sit with that many resources tied up?
And disrupting the whole community with people that are violating violations of the law, that are in fact in a state of anarchy.
I can remember looking out the south side of the building.
My attention had been drawn to the fact that the tanks were coming in.
And they were pushing all the things on the south side of the chapel into a big heap.
It looked like they were building a bonfire.
We know from the evidence that the tactical element of the FBI was eager to put a quit in for this standoff.
The irony of the situation is that the tactical people are actually precipitating The crisis of the 19th.
They tell me the commanders want more, and I'm telling them they're wrecking everything that we're doing, and it's getting ten times worse, and the more they threaten these people, the more they're laid down right on the floor, and they can run the tanks over them.
I mean, that becomes the attitude.
Steve Snyder, in a telephone call during the standoff to his sister Sue, refers to the prophecies.
In the book of Nahum, chapter 2.
We're talking about the Bible and all the prophets.
But, I know.
Look at, when you get off the phone, you look at the book of Nahum.
Yes.
There's a furious with flaming torches.
There's tanks.
That's what Nahum saw in the final days.
They're surrounded us.
It's the first time in the history of the United States that the government has used tanks against its own people, Sue.
It's stupid.
I know it.
Well, I had been talking to the negotiators myself, and I would tell them things that I thought would help.
And it seemed like, for instance, when they started playing the music, that they would laugh.
They acted like they wanted to do everything to antagonize, and they really didn't want to help.
And it just seemed like every prediction that David was predicting, they knew about, and they were making these predictions come true.
And I kept saying to my family, why are they doing this if they want them to come out?
I am bewildered, in the wake of Jonestown, why more time wasn't spent, and somebody, not out in the plains of Waco, but maybe in a nice, comfortable office in Washington, didn't immerse themselves in the religious tenets of this Branch Davidian group.
If I knew about his plans to burn the place, we'd have a whole other post with him.
We know about your plan to burn the place and destroy your people.
We would have been broadcasting it.
We would not even come close to approaching that place.
Numerous microphones were planted inside of Mount Carmel that recorded several conversations of the civilians reacting to the tanks and the FBI hostage rescue team.
I mean, if they're going to come and try to install them in this place, they're doing the wrong thing.
Who is it? Who is it? It's Steve.
They think they're going to go out there and start up the exterior when it's got real-life exterior involved there.
They can't destroy it. What the hell do they think?
Have them strip the house to what I say, 13?
Or is that he's going to take that place, lay it on fire?
I don't know. He's got it.
The FBI cannot get up here and say they did not know that David Koresh would respond when they made that assault.
They knew that David Koresh was going to respond by trying to burn the place down, and they knew that because they had overheard undercover tapes, and because they had prior negotiation tapes with him.
You know, things are only going to get worse out there.
The whole situation is not going to go away.
You know, and I know, the only way we're going to resolve this situation is you folks come on out.
That's the end of it right there.
And now you are going to have to work to a point where this is going to happen.
Now the trick is how?
In a situation like this, Peter, what's the answer?
I'll tell you what, it definitely isn't an unusual situation for sure.
Uh-huh.
Oh, sometimes you have a chance to read Isaiah 33 about people living in fire and walking through it and coming out and surviving.
Seriously, who can, it says, who can dwell in everlasting burning?
That's the question.
There is a tradition in the branch tradition, history, that God would In the end time, who kept his people through a wall of fire.
They understand the Bible prophecies to be warnings of what could happen, but not necessarily what must happen.
Koresh wrote a letter to his attorney, Dictador, in which he said he had good news.
God had spoken to him.
The waiting period was coming to an end.
He and all the people could exit Mount Carmel and go to the system.
But first, he was commanded to write down the meaning of his message, the meaning of the seven seals.
After he wrote that manuscript, he and all the people were commanded to leave.
They actually had no choice but to remain.
God had told them to leave.
This message is communicated to the FBI in an attempt to end the siege.
Koresh writes his first seal and is preparing the second when the FBI begins implementing its final tactical resolution.
They've been knocking down trees and dragging things off from outside Mount Carmel, little by little, for several weeks.
On the 18th, they got rid of everything that was left.
It's just like the pastry during the Dark Ages.
When they thought people were heretics, they went ahead and dealt with them.
That wasn't the way they believed.
And, you know, we have to all follow our conscience.
That's why America is supposed to be a great nation where we can follow our conscience according to our beliefs.
There was an aura there that we're going to end this thing.
This is Israel 7-9, we're in a video. We are in a process of bringing you here.
Gas was inserted using a Mark 5 delivery system secured to a boom.
We will not use dosages that would harm those children.
The FBI's position on this from day one was to be very deliberate, very careful, and not to do anything that would be provocative, that would caused some reaction.
There were no injuries to FBI agents, and FBI agents did not return any fire
throughout the entire day, in spite of being fired upon numerous times by occupants of the
compound.
The FBI has not responded to any requests for comment.
you The plan was for this to continue for 48 hours.
But there was a catch to the plan.
If the tanks took fire from the Davidians, they were then allowed to escalate the plan.
According to the official briefing given to Attorney General Janet Reno by the FBI on April the 12th, the assault plan called for demolition of the building and permission to shoot streams of automatic weapons fire into the building to support an armored vehicle's approach.
And we told them what was going to happen.
This tank's going to come up.
It's going to insert gas.
We're not entering the compound.
We're not fulfilling this prophecy.
Don't presume that.
Was the Attorney General warned that while we've been very cautious about selecting what your experts say or experts say was non-lethal gas, we might still crush that building?
Did she understand that people might be killed?
I find an inconsistency between the efforts of the Gas Insertion Plan to save life and the actions of this tank.
At Mount Carmel, we had people that were confined to an area Where were they going to go?
Who were they going to hurt?
They ran out of gas canisters.
I think about 10 o'clock in the morning.
Everything they had planned for 48 hours was gone by the end of it.
They were flying in more from Houston.
The CS gas used at Mount Carmel was more potent than normal tear gas.
CS gas would induce nausea, vomiting, and disorientation.
As the FBI tanks demolished the building, the gas was dispersed from high-pressure bottles mounted on the boom of the combat engineering vehicles.
Any indication about danger or harm to those children, the rule was back off.
One of the first locations gassed by the FBI is the buried school bus, the entryway to an underground storm shelter.
Following the gassing, the mothers of the children take them to an enclosed concrete vault, which the FBI calls the bunker.
The FBI gasses the bunker for two hours.
Approximately half of the panel that we had testified that some of the infants and children, since they didn't have gas masks, could in fact have died from inhalation or effects of CF gas.
At the very least, the Department of Justice decision, in fact, resulted in the babies and children being tortured for at least three to four hours.
I'd been told that earlier in the morning, the filters wouldn't last long.
When it did block up, I'd taken my mask off only to find my face burning and stinging like it had acid all over you.
Some of them were trying to wipe it off with minimum amounts of their drinking water on them, perhaps a rag or whatever, only to find that it made it worse.
So as I say, what the children were going through, only God knows.
I saw grown men, adults crying because of the The sensation of the gas.
As I say, we were fortunate in as much as we were not in a enclosed environment like the children were, being sprayed point blank and not having any ventilation.
We are now at what we believe is the next logical juncture of putting sufficient pressure on them to cause them to come out.
We saw a hole that a tank had made in the south wall of the chapel and we were kind of standing right just inside of that.
There was a heap of rubble, sheetrock and tubercles that the tank had pushed in.
We were standing just a little back from the hole trying to decide whether if we went out we would be shot and as we were standing there others were kind of coming in behind us Next thing I knew, I kind of turned and was looking out the hole again and all this smoke came down the outside of the building and got sucked in the hole where we were and the whole place turned pitch black.
That was the first indication that I recall of any evidence of fire.
Any statement by you that they committed suicide because we never got to touch them is all
a conclusion that you've drawn and as you just said, speculation on your part.
I'm trying to resolve in my mind why someone would sit in there for six hours with gas and not come out with a full opportunity to come out.
Who was keeping them from doing it?
Were they compelling themselves or what?
I don't know.
It has to be speculation.
I think that's the point is we don't know.
It was so black, you couldn't even see the flame.
You could just feel the heat, the pressure of the heat that pushed you down on the ground.
And I can remember looking at my hands, and the skin was just rolling off.
There was no blister.
They were just rolling off in whole layers, you might say.
And I looked back over my shoulder and I was just horrified the fact that I had just come
to a massacre.
I heard some people screaming.
you.
Kind of high-pitched screams.
It didn't sound anyone... It was like a scream of fear.
It sounded like more of a scream that someone was getting burned.
We were hoping that the women in that compound would grab their children and flee out.
you That did not occur.
Unfortunately, they bunkered down the children, the best we can tell, and they allowed those children to go up in flames with them.
David Koresh, Steve Schneider, 52 other adults, 25 children, and two Somerville-born infants
perished in the April 19th fire.
The Davidian survivors were taken into custody by FBI agents on the scene.
Clive Doyle and other injured branch Davidians were given emergency treatment at the FBI command post.
The uninjured Davidians were transferred to the custody of the ATF and booked into the county jail.
The reason we didn't wait was the thing I've tried to say several times, I'm not saying it well enough, is that
the FBI is going to be in charge of the custody of the Davidians.
The reason we didn't wait was the thing I've tried to say several times, I'm not saying it well enough, is that
From his actions on the 19th, when he had some of those people killed by gunfire, others died in the fire, not being able to leave, which I think they were concerned over, most of them, over salvation.
That was his hold over them, is that he would dictate when that occurred.
Many people would argue your actions.
How do you respond to their family?
It's not because of our actions.
Those children are dead because David Koresh had been killed.
There's no question about that.
He had those fires started.
He had 51 days to release those children.
He chose those children to die.
I don't know who started the fire or fires.
I don't know who fired bullets into these people's bodies.
I don't know from what origin the bullets came from.
So if we could completely agree that we do not have a definitive answer of the sourcing,
then in fact what we have is an open homicide.
Is there anything that we've missed that we should go after in the remaining two days?
Yes sir, I think we've missed some of the questions as to, as I mentioned earlier, why items of evidence have disappeared, why the crime scene was destroyed before it could be evaluated.
These areas, especially the evidence disappearing.
All of a sudden, in the middle of the night, there's a loud knock on your door.
Hey honey, something's not right.
Draw out your arms.
Let me have my master.
We're here for the government.
We're here to help you.
I'm from the I.R.S.
with a power to talk.
If you've got a complaint, bring them to me.
Get out of this house.
Surrender yourselves.
Give me your gold.
It's me, your God.
You can obey if you want, example.
Now put that sound back to me for your own.
You've been listening to the Hour of the Time.
I'm William Cooper.
Don't miss part two tomorrow night.
William Cooper called me the most dangerous radio host in America.
And now you know why.
And what he's saying hits the mark.
It's right here.
So we're all dancing to the drums of the buffalo of life.
Sittin' preparin' it for another huge act of science.
Order out of chaos.
Depression.
Inflation.
Creates a panic that wreaks a nation.
Folks, I just want to let you know that the feds in the valley have been stepping up their reconnaissance of the area up here.
They've been here pretty regularly for the last three weeks.
They were here yesterday.
They were here today.
They appear to either be meeting down by the shopping center where Ted Bosen or Todd Bosen and the cable company have their offices.
They may even have a cover office there.
And, uh, this evening, uh, they met at the, uh, the firehouse in Egypt.
So, they don't know it, but they're not undercover like they think they are.
They are followed.
Their movements are monitored.
We know every single thing they do.
Every time they enter this house.
But I want to let you know that, because if anything happens during the night, any night, I will not ever commit suicide.
If anything happens to me, I was murdered.
Don't you ever forget it.
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