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Sept. 1, 1999 - Bill Cooper
01:01:39
Day 51
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Once upon a time, there was a tower of the dark. Once upon a time, there was a tower of the dark.
Yes.
It's time for the new rules of Duel of the Warriors. See you in the warriors.
Thanks for watching.
I'm William Cooper.
the you're listening to the power of the time i'm william
cooper evening ladies and gentlemen
uh...
for those of you on the internet go to harvest dash trust
dot org and you'll see that uh...
apparently there were some some of the enemy at our new
server They have completely deleted two years of work.
Countless thousands of hours sitting in front of computers.
Inputting data and creating one of the largest websites on the internet is now gone, disappeared, destroyed.
Not to mention the countless thousands and thousands of dollars that we put into it.
So two years, thousands of hours of work and thousands and thousands of dollars down the tube with the stroke of a key on a computer board.
Go to our old website, harvest-trust.org and read the story for yourself.
That's all I can tell you.
Tonight you're going to hear the soundtrack from Day 51, The True Story of Waco.
So, pay attention folks.
And once again, we might learn something.
Uh oh.
Got a problem with the soundtrack.
Well, I'm going to play some music and I'm going to try to fix that.
Sorry, folks.
Don't know what's wrong, but I'll find out.
and be right back.
Okay, folks, we got our fix.
Just let me back it up to the beginning again, and then we'll go.
And that'll only take a few seconds, I think.
Okay, here we go.
Sit back and pay attention.
All that remains today of the Branch Davidian Church home near Waco, Texas is a pile of rubble and a lot of unanswered questions.
It did not happen to him that way.
But man is so impatient.
And man thinks he's so intelligent.
He tries to outdo God.
But what the people did not understand is that they were fighting God.
And if you read Psalms 2, you'll find out that God is laughing at the people that think they have won the war.
It's His war.
I hope that I should.
I hope that I should.
And that's not the picture that's contained in the media of what we are at all.
They've said cultists.
You know, and you've seen a picture of a building, and pictures have been painted in your minds about who we were, and what we were, and do you know what we stood for?
People said we were brainwashed, we were mind-controlled.
Those things were not true at all.
We were all there studying the Bible because we could see that David had something to teach that nobody else did.
The Branch Davidian doctrine is often misunderstood, and it was over a difference of interpretation of the Book of Revelations that led its founder, Victor Howduff, to leave the Seventh-day Adventist Church.
We believe that the Bible in its entirety, from the book of Genesis all the way through the book of Revelation, including some books that were not included in the King James Bible, are all prophetic and they all point to the times that we're coming to today.
He moved his followers from Los Angeles to Waco, Texas in 1935, purchased property near Lake Waco, and established the Mount Carmel Center.
This original property was later sold and the church moved to a location about 12 miles east of Waco.
They believed the return of Christ was imminent and in 1959 about 900 church members gathered here at the new Mount Carmel to await the second coming.
In this rare interview, French Davidian spokesman Dudley Goff explained the biblical basis for their religious beliefs.
And the purpose in his gathering all nations there to battle is that he might prepare the land so that he can set up his kingdom, so that his people might return there and set up his kingdom in compliance or in fulfillment of the prophecy of Daniel 2.44 where the Lord says he's going to set up his kingdom down in the last days.
That particular prophecy is brought out on this small chart.
Unlike mainstream Protestant theology, the Branchtavidians do not believe there will be a rapture of the Church.
They believe Christians will endure the tribulation and suffer persecution for their faith.
The image to pieces, and Daniel said that this stone is God's kingdom that is set up in the days of these kings that are
represented by the toads.
They have come down to the toads of time. The fate of the image which will be divided.
Daniel saw Hardy.
He saw exactly what would happen, and he was told in Daniel 12, Daniel and Revelation are two books that go hand in hand.
After the death of Victor Hellhoff in 1955, church leadership went to Benjamin and Walsh Rodin But over the years, their numbers slowly dwindled away.
When Vernon Howell, who later changed his name to David Koresh, appeared on the scene in the 1980s, many thought it was a sign.
He did it best.
That's why everything he tried, he did it best.
And he made an effort in letting us know he cared about it.
And he was from the beginning, from Palestine up until the time we started to be healthy.
He was always improving our lives, always trying to help us.
Every living soul that accepts Christianity, I challenge them to show me the seven seals of Revelation 4 and 5.
And if they can't do it, then I show them.
And if they're honest, they'll see it.
Like many survivalist groups today, the Branch Davidians began to prepare for the coming persecution.
They purchased weapons for self-defense and stored food supplies to sustain them.
A lot of people vilified the Branch Davidians because they had a lot of food, they had a lot of ammo, they were sort of separatists, survivalists, waiting for Armageddon.
You know why you might not want that sort of person next door to you?
There's really nothing wrong with it.
There's nothing illegal about it.
There's nothing that was done.
When a disgruntled church member, Mark Brough, was expelled for improper conduct, He went to the authorities with fabricated stories of child molesting and weapons violations.
Him having sex with underage girls and molesting children and so forth was something that was cooked up by members who were booted out for immoral behavior and the FBI and the AGF.
So it was a good excuse to do what they did out of non-comer.
The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms was originally established to collect taxes for the U.S.
Treasury Department.
Today, their mission is the disarming of the American civilian population.
Therefore, the Blanche Davidian church near Waco became a target for extermination.
The church was destroyed in the 19th century.
In a display of flagrant disregard, the Waco Tribune-Herald began running a series of reports about the Branch Davidians on the same day of the ATF assault.
Equally curious is the fact that it was the undercover agent, Robert Rodriguez, who brought copies of the newspaper to Mount Carmel that very morning.
Papers were brought in in the morning by Robert and I was down, I came down there when he was showing them to the
different people that were down there.
And I read a little bit about it but then one of the men went out and got some of the papers and brought them back.
And a little later I came back down and picked a paper up to bring it up to my room to read it completely.
And I noticed two cattle cars coming in and pull up in front.
in front.
I ran upstairs to read the paper.
I thought the men were going to do something with that.
After I'd gotten upstairs, I heard three helicopters.
The reason I know there were three, because I looked out the window to see where they were, what they were doing, and they were firing on us.
With a search warrant of questionable legality, agents of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms launched a raid on a Grand Pavilion church hall.
It was Sunday morning, February 28, 1993, and Katherine Matheson was absolutely positive that government agents fired the first shots.
I saw it and I heard it.
And they were... I was in the back of the building.
That's where my room was.
And they were firing toward David's room.
And they turned, and when they turned, I was, I fell to the floor because I could see that those bullets could have hit me if I was standing.
So, they went to the front of the building, and it seemed like when they got in the front, by the time they got to the front, they were firing again.
And so, all the others were firing.
When questioned further about her observations that day, Katherine was adamant.
She was certain of what she saw and heard.
Definitely.
They were the only ones I heard and saw at the time that they were coming in in the helicopter.
There was no one else firing.
Questioned separately, Annetta Richard's testimony is virtually identical to that of Catherine Madison's.
I was actually getting ready for worship.
And I heard a noise like an helicopter.
And then I heard bullets start firing.
You know, bullets started coming in from every direction.
And the helicopters were flying over the building.
It was, we found them, it was so low.
That, for a time I thought they had landed on the ocean.
But it was never this low.
Bullets were coming from all directions.
And I heard a voice saying, Come, get down.
you So, those of us who were there in the hallway went down on her, on the floor on her tummy, her hands and feet, and I looked around and I saw some children.
So I took them close to me, and there was a lady, Um, a little 10-year-old girl was holding her, and I took the baby from her and lie over him, put my body over the baby so that if the bullet, um, came through, it would hit me instead of the baby.
There is corroboration for their testimony of gunfire from the helicopters.
It comes from one of the Bryce Davidian children who left Mount Carmel that evening, and was later told by psychologist Dr. Bruce Perry.
And as I asked her, is there anything else?
Um, she took her crayon and went... And I asked what that was and she said that was... Bullets.
No sooner had the dust settled than the ATF began to lie and cover up about their actions during the raid.
They acted as though the Bransonvidians had come looking for them.
The main problem we had, I don't believe, is that we were outmaneuvered or outplanned.
The problem we had is that we were outgunned.
Fed up with the obvious lies, a young independent investigator named Ron Cole decided it was time to get involved.
He packed his bags and headed for Wakefield.
After talking with eyewitnesses and conducting his own research, Ron Cole arrived at the obvious conclusion.
In a scale model of Mount Carmel, he relates the sequence of events that fateful Sunday morning.
Those people that I talked to that were in a position to see the helicopters indicate the helicopters fired first, whereas those that were at the front of the center couldn't see the helicopters, could hear them, but saw the agents exiting the cattle trailers, they say the first shots came from these ATF agents at the front.
That's why I'm saying it seems to me the shots were fired from agents at the front and from the helicopters, Within seconds of each other, which means there would not have been enough time for some emergency code word to have been used or for someone else inside to fire the first shot that would have initiated simultaneous fire from the ground and from the air within seconds of each other.
That indicates to me that this was planned in advance.
It was a frontal assault from the ground and air support coming in from the back, simultaneous pre-planned attack.
In practice, They drove over and over again, and we got our plan down.
We got a diversion down.
When the ATF agents arrived at Mount Carmel, they should have noticed the Brankstradian men were not where they were expected to be.
Ron Cole explains.
When the two ACF cattle trailers pulled into the driveway from EE Ranch Road out in front of the property, the team that was in the first cattle trailer, they were supposed to exit the trailer here and go to the under construction tornado shelters where they thought most of the men would be that morning trying to finish up the shelters themselves the second trailer they were supposed to disembark and crash through the front door part of the team the other part of the team was to come around the side up these ladders into what they thought was the gun room another small part of that second panel trailer team they were supposed to go and suppress the dogs either with a fire extinguisher or
If need be, with gunshots.
In fact, so far the testimony that's come out of the trial is that the opening shots may in fact have been fired by ACF agents at the cattle trailers.
When David Koresh saw the ACF agents piling out of the cattle trailers, he opened the front door and made an attempt to stop the attack.
I opened the front door.
They were running up.
Of course, you know, they're tactical expertise.
They've got their guns aimed and everything.
They started hollering, you know.
All of them hollered.
I didn't know what they were saying.
And I was already hollering.
I was saying, you know, go away.
You know, I was hollering, go away.
There's women and children here.
Let's talk.
They started firing at me.
And so what happened was is that I fell back in the door and the bullets started coming through the door.
And so then what happened was some of the Some of the young men and stuff started firing on him.
When they jumped out, David opened the door and put his hand out and said, hold on, we have women and children in here.
So when they jumped out, David opened the door and put his hand out and said,
Now hold on, we have women and children in here.
The bullets started hitting the door and all through the foyer.
And that's when we slammed the door.
Six Brant civilians were killed during the attack.
Among them was Australian born Peter Chin, who was working inside the old water tower
and simply looked out to see what was going on.
Peter Gent was shot here on top of the water tower while he was working, cleaning out the inside of the water tower.
He came to the top level that he had built.
He built several levels so that he could clean out the inside of it from top to bottom and when he poked up over the Top level that he was shot.
David Koresh's father-in-law, Perry Jones, was standing behind him when he opened the front door.
Jones took several bullets for Koresh and died about an hour later.
In the child's testimony, she adopted Perry concerning the holes, the dots that she drew in the roof, corroborate with what a lot of other people that were in there said, including Katherine Madison and Dick DeGaran.
Dick DeGaran was interviewed by Diane Sawyer on ABC Primetime and he stated in this interview that he clearly saw the ceiling as it appeared looks quote-unquote like Swiss cheese because it had holes all in from bullets fired through the roof and the only way obviously these bullet holes could be in the ceiling from through the roof is from helicopter fire.
So I've talked to David Jones's little six-year-old daughter And I asked her, what did you do on February 28th?
What happened?
And she said that bullets started coming through the roof, and she ran and hid under her bed, and her brother, who was a couple years older than her, ran down the hall into the stairwell.
As a matter of fact, Winston Blake, who was one of the people killed inside Mount Carmel on the first day, he was found with a bullet hole through the top of his head.
And he was still holding a piece of French toast.
I was terrified when I heard the bullets coming, because it was like, you know, it was so frightening.
You hear the bullets coming in, you don't know why, where, how.
There was nothing you could do, you know.
It's frightening.
Nobody had any time to prepare for anything.
It was just going farther.
The last shooting that day occurred around 7 p.m.
and was recorded by the news media in this manner.
A couple of hours ago, about 7 o'clock tonight, there was more gunfire.
Three members of the cult came out of the compound firing at ATF agents.
One of the members was killed, another was taken into custody, and the third was... That news report was a complete lie.
Once again, Ron Cole sets the record straight.
Mike Schroeder, Bob Kendrick, and Norman Allison were not inside Mount Carmel Center on the morning of February 28th when this raid took place.
All three of them were at the mag bag several miles away when they heard about the raid on the radio.
They made the decision after hearing about the raid to try to get back home.
Mike Schroeder had his wife, his baby boy inside.
Nobody knew who was alive or dead or what had happened exactly.
Mike Schroeder attempted a mad dash from off the property Trying to get over this fence into the paint shop on Mount Carmel.
Unfortunately, he was seen by Special Agent Daryl Dyer, who had his outpost set up since before the raid and a hay barn off the property.
Mike ran towards this fence and although he was unarmed, well, he was armed with nothing but a stun gun, Daryl Dyer emptied his 30-round submachine gun magazine into Mike, striking seven times in the back.
Agent Dyer Fired one burst at him, but somehow Mike kept on struggling
Got about 10 feet from the property line here, and when you see these sections cut off of this tree
That's where his body rests for several days before they
buff it to remove him The official reason for the raid on Mount Carmel was to
search for illegal weapons and arrest David Koresh However as it turns out most of the guns were not even
there We did have somewhat of a collection, but the weapons were never intended to... Paul Fada, who works with gun shows all over Texas, who lives up at Mount Carmel, who in fact was responsible for most of the gun purchases through the mag bag that he rented out.
Um, on February 28th, that morning, while the raid took place, he was at a gun show in Austin with his son, along with most of the weapons that the ATF had come there to seize.
There was a difference that David was conducting with howling firearms.
Paul Fodda and David Koresh sold guns and other merchandise at gun shows as do many gun dealers.
This was a perfectly legitimate enterprise and gave David Koresh a chance to talk to people about his religious beliefs.
I met the guy one time real briefly at a gun show a couple years ago.
I was passing out flyers and He wanted to talk guns and the Bible, so I... The ATF wasn't looking for Bibles when they raided Mount Carmel, but they should have known that most of the guns were in Austin, which Paul bought up.
The ATF had an undercover house across the street, 100 yards away from the front door
of Mount Carmel Center.
They had that place under surveillance 24 hours a day, every day, for weeks prior to
February 28th raid.
And they had to be aware of the fact that Paul was working these gun shows.
And it seems to me, unless they're completely ignorant of reality, they ought to have been
able to see from 100 yards away, Paul leaving to go to this gun show, and after weeks of
surveillance, and several of these shows, they should have figured out that the vast
majority of those weapons would not have even been there.
Bye.
Guns may not have been the only thing the APF was looking for.
Jeff Little was an analyst, a computer analyst for Yamaha of America's headquarters in Winnipeg,
California.
And...
Branstavidians Jeff Little and Wayne Martin had been conducting their own investigation of the ATF
using computers located inside Mount Carmel.
I think that the possibilities for Jeff Little and Wayne Martin
to have been able to tap into information concerning the ATF or any other part of the federal government would be very
high.
I saw some information.
They were collecting information on all of the ATF activities over the last several years.
In April of 1991, after Operation Desert Storm, Marine Corps fast sea lift vessels returned to Port Arthur, Texas.
A ship's officer, who refused an interview and does not wish to be identified, says that his ship's cargo hold was full of helicopters.
Concealed inside the helicopters were thousands of weapons confiscated from captured Iraqi soldiers.
These helicopters, with weapons inside, were then loaded onto flatbed rail cars and shipped to Fort Sill, Oklahoma.
It is believed that these firearms are intended for distribution to American street gangs, which are currently being converted by police agencies into law enforcement units.
The weapons, of course, would not be traceable.
These gangs, working with the ATM, will be used to enter civilian homes to confiscate weapons.
Is it possible that Jeff Little and Wayne Marchant accessed classified government computer files through a back door and had obtained this information?
Yeah, I think that it's very possible that there could have been some kind of information that they had on the computer inside the building there that was information the ATF did not want to get out.
And I think they seem to be awfully anxious to get into that one window that everyone saw them going into.
And there's a possibility it might have been something besides guns they were after.
The evening settled in over the dark hills of Central Texas and the long stage began.
Fifty-one days of terror.
Fifty-one days of darkness and hope and frustration.
and how America lives through it.
Never before in the history of law enforcement has so many personnel exerted so much effort for so little reason.
The search warrants primarily listed conversion kits.
They have altered an AR-15 assault rifle, which might have been installed by the branch committees, which could have created an illegal machine gun.
To make such a weapon legal, a $200 tax must be paid.
Therefore, the ATF and FBI ultimately spent $7 million in order to collect $200.
Did the police believe David Koresh was a vicious criminal guilty of kidnapping, rape, murder, and all sorts of heinous crimes?
No, they did not.
Clinton County Sheriff Jack Parwell knew David on a first-name basis, and in 1987, following a shootout with George Roden, had arrested David and searched the property without incident.
Americans everywhere sat in the comfort of their homes and watched the drama unfold.
They witnessed the trampling of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
Those who seek to control guns will also try to control people.
Those who control the masses care not for the lives of innocent men, women, and children.
The standoff at Mount Carmel gradually evolved into a surreal cosmic struggle between good
and evil, freedom and slavery, free will and tyranny.
The next day, Monday, March 1, dawned clear and bright, however.
A radio talk show host in Dallas, Ron Engelman, refused to toe the official government line and took up the
cause of the price of idioms.
I'll see you guys out there and I'll give you that book out there.
So I'm going to give you a book.
You can pick the other one in the library out there.
All right.
The standoff continues in Waco this evening.
The KTVF radio personality wants to take a van in the compound with two surgeons to treat any wounded.
Branch Davidian.
We're treating these people worse than we treat prisoners of war.
Prisoners of war get medical attention.
Nobody's receiving medical attention in there.
Could be any question.
I'll let you're not answering the question, you're talking around it.
Just answer the question.
Okay, then if you don't...
Now, if you're not answering the question, you're talking around the table.
Just answer the question.
No, I don't see that.
Okay, then if you don't believe me... Why did they kill Randy Weaver's wife?
Why did they kill Randy Weaver's 14-year-old son by shooting him in the back four times?
Our government has run amok.
The FBI, particularly the ADF, that's the problem.
The first article they wrote says in the article they have a .50 caliber machine gun.
Well, they've never been able to find that .50 caliber machine gun.
I'm just saying what the ATF did was illegal.
Why are they, why are they coming into our state the way they're coming in here and just acting like a bunch of renegades?
The entire branch of civilians were hostages of the ATF.
They didn't surrender.
They were leaving their homes.
Ron Engelman was outraged over the attack on this peaceful religious community.
The siege was underway and Ron wanted to feel... Monday morning, I decided I'm gonna tear up a new ass.
The ATF.
I go to work Monday morning on my way to work.
His position on the ATF stirred up a lively debate, and Ron Engelman became the target of much criticism from the establishment press.
And he was critical of Long, that he didn't think he should get involved in that part
of the process that he could have caused.
He said David Koresh, I don't think somebody or another could have.
Throughout that first Sunday evening, some of the Branch Davidian children were sent
out in exchange for the FBI allowing a message from David Koresh to be broadcast over Dallas
station KRLV.
My father, my God who sits on the throne in heaven, has given me a book of seven seals.
In Revelation 10, verse 7 of this sealed book, the mystery of God is to be finished.
David Koresh has declared that his service to the prophet has been completed.
David Koresh has declared to the Branch Davidians that they were at the fifth seal.
And the fifth seal meant that there was going to be something, something was going to happen to those that believe in God.
That night, as he was able to broadcast and give messages over the radio, In order for him to do that, he would have to make, force, two or three children to leave their home, to leave their parents, and go into the custody of the same people that had just killed a number of those inside, had wounded a number of those inside, had terrorized everyone inside, and have now had the place surrounded, and these little children were forced
to leave their home and go into the hands of those people.
I don't know if I would allow my child to do that.
On day three of the siege, Tuesday, March 2nd, David Koresh sent a tape out with Katherine Madison.
Their agreement was they would all come out if the tape, a 58-minute sermon, was broadcast on radio stations during
prime time.
They were supposed to play the tape at prime time.
Now, that could have meant two different things.
Prime time or drive time on radio would be like from 4 to 6 in the evening.
Prime time on television would be like from 7 o'clock till 10 o'clock or 8 o'clock till 11 o'clock.
And that's when they wanted the tape played.
The tape was actually played at 1.30 in the afternoon, and there's every possibility in the world that they were not listening to the tape or listening to the radio when the tape was played, and therefore never knew that the tape was played.
That may be one of the reasons they didn't come out.
The Branch Davidians did not leave Mount Carmel following the broadcast of David Koresh's
sermon.
Then the A.I. said that David had lies in him.
But later, Sheila Martin told us the actual reason for not coming out.
And that's one of the reasons David stayed in.
He knew that the land would become ours, to be clear, my understanding.
In a vote on the ballot, March 22, 1988, a Waco judge issued a verbal order that the
Branch Davidians must occupy the 77-acre plot of land continuously for a period of five
years.
Then it would become legally theirs.
The five-year period would not expire for another 20 days.
Inside Mount Carmel were about 100 people.
They represented a diverse racial and cultural mix of nationalities, but were all there for one purpose only, to study the Bible.
We were trying to live in the community like the early apostles did, you know, sharing all things, having things in common.
That's why we live together as a family, you know.
like Christ said to his people of his day, who are my brothers and my sisters and my
mother, these that are with me that follow me and do what I say.
Their leader of course was David Koretz.
Contrary to what the FBI claims, David never claimed to be Jesus Christ.
The people inside Mount Carmel followed him because they believed he was a prophet and
had great skill in teaching the Bible.
We liked being there.
We had the long studies just because we were just having fun.
And long studies were just something that was a combination of a lot of things.
It wasn't that we sat there all the time.
We would have breaks.
We'd go off and check on the children and see what things we were going to take for breakfast.
And then we'd come back and, you know, just normal things.
It just appears to people.
But when you like something, you're going to sit there and you don't mind.
And many times it'd be 1 o'clock or 6 o'clock in the morning.
You'd say, you know, it's getting late.
And we'd say, no, no, that's all right.
And he would take us and put us high like that.
I like the scientific, you know, anything scientific.
He went into things about space, things about just anything.
He hit every subject that was.
And I mean, he could give you knowledge about it so you would never learn anywhere else.
Glennon Howell thinks he's the Lamb of God.
Whatever you may think of David Koresh, just remember that your opinion was established by the FBI, which had a tremendous stake in villainizing you.
The persons who follow true religion follow a message, a ministry.
Persons who follow a cultic leader follow a man, a messenger, a person.
My main object was following truth.
It was not following a person.
Their religion beliefs, that's their belief.
I mean, each person's religion is his own business.
I mean, just like each person's politics is.
Those who live near Mount Carmel, such as Walter Dulock, proprietor of a grocery store in Elk, ...knew the Branch Davidians and had no problem with Zellner.
Yeah, there's one guy I just thought was Woodrow Kindred because they got charged with murder.
Well, he didn't run a fool of a lot of things.
He didn't run a charge account.
When he knew it, there wasn't nothing wrong with that guy.
I mean, you know, I don't know about his personal life, but I mean, to me, he was just an average guy walking his stover.
It is true that David Courreges had children by some of the other women at Mount Carmel.
Our investigation finds the charges of child abuse were false.
There were several previous state investigations which also failed to produce any evidence of abuse, and the case was officially closed on April the 30th, 1992.
We had no evidence, so it was a very frustrating time for us.
Talk about this, uh, uh, sex business there, I mean, uh, with underage girls, uh, I don't know whether that's true or fact, or whether that's just, uh, I mean, you know, all I know is what I read in the papers here on TV.
And the Child Protective Agency was out there several times and they couldn't find nothing wrong.
So, I mean, you know, I don't know what the, you know, where all this stuff comes from.
The siege wore on and all communication with the outside world was cut off.
A caller to Ron Engelman's talk show suggested the bright civilians move their satellite dish as an indication they were listening.
If they're listening, move the satellite dish.
He said, I think it's on Galaxy 6.
He said, ask them if they're listening to move the satellite dish to Galaxy 1.
The compound's phone lines have been diverted for a week, keeping David Koresh from the attention he apparently craves.
But an FBI ban on contact with the media isn't keeping talk show host Ron Engelman from trying to reach the cult leader.
Tuesday morning, he asked compound members over the air to move their satellite dish if they were listening to him.
And about two minutes later, Ken comes back on the phone and says, the dish moved.
They're listening to you.
Then a caller at Angleman Shows suggested a more visible sign.
If that's a weird flag out that second-story window or something, it's going to get somebody's attention.
Shortly after noon, a white flag appeared at the second-floor window and stayed there for half an hour.
The Branch Davidians and David Paresh do want communications with us.
They want me in there.
They want the search... In a later phone call, Branch Davidian member David Thibodeau told how it felt to realize that someone was trying to contact them.
It's running up and down our front.
They're listening!
Move the satellite dish!
It was a very high moment.
It was very exciting.
I just remember everybody just being so overwhelmed with joy that someone was listening.
That we could communicate somehow.
They cut us off.
The longer they negotiate, the more the people can come out.
Koresh, I don't know.
He's strongly delusionary, very paranoid, probably sociopathic.
He's locked in.
I don't know if they'll get him out or not.
From the very first day, the news media deliberately sought out only those persons with ill feelings towards the Brankovidians, and David Koresh in particular.
All that time living right here in Waco was a gentleman who was not prejudiced and knew them well.
I am Dewey Millay.
I am a naturopathic doctor.
I have lived in Waco about six and a half years.
About five years ago I had some Branch Davidians come to me for nutritional health and they became my patients as it were.
And of course when the event happened I, you know, I said, my goodness!
I started putting things together and here all these people were being attacked and they are just, those people are just like any other human beings.
A lot of them had jobs outside of Mount Carmel.
A lot of people didn't know that they, like David Jones, Maryville's son, was a mailman.
And he had, obviously, an outside job, and they tithed their money.
They either tithed 10 or 20 percent of their money to the church.
Dr. Dewey Millay believes the media is heavily influenced by government, almost to the point of actual control.
People who look at this have got to look at television and say, now why are they telling me this?
Is this a lie?
And that will go a long way to educate the American people of knowing how to watch the news.
People ask me, why watch Dan Rather?
Because I like to see what he's telling the American people.
Why is he telling me this?
And nine times out of ten, there's an agenda behind it.
They're going to do something to us, or for us, in some way we're not going to be too happy about.
And the American people just get smart and watch the news.
They can't, they can't trust them at all.
We saw what they did here at Mount Carmel.
It was just incredible.
We had, we watched the press conference every day.
and most generally we have found that they contradict themselves
or they pull them out on a lie.
The police are trying to get in on this. ATF agents attempted to arrest the head of the cult, a 33 year old man
who claims to be Christ.
claims to be Christ.
He's been described as a pure drinking guitar player with 15 wives, claims to be Jesus Christ.
They have homemade explosives, semi-automatic and automatic weapons, hand grenades, grease guns.
From the latest reports we had was that there was nitroglycerin in ponds.
There would be absolutely no reason in the world to shoot nitroglycerin down there.
It's ridiculous.
I've been careful about it.
Just fill in air when there's really nothing to say, so you start using rumors.
I imagine if they hadn't taken what was given, they'd have had nothing to say.
The FBI had taken control of this scene, and Lydia was told to pack up and move several miles away to the roadblock, an out-of-sight exhibition compound.
It didn't take long for the lights to start coming down, and for the miles of people to move to action.
Authorities knew they didn't want to move.
The F.C.I.
said news reporters were moved back out of concern for their safety.
What about safety for this cameraman during the waste riot at the Dallas Cowboys victory parade?
Who's concerned for the safety of this news crew in Palestine's West Bank?
Or this recent student uprising in Paris?
But how about the news crew shooting this little New World Order police action?
Aren't they in danger of being shot at?
No apparent concern for their safety.
The excuse given by the FBI at Mount Carmel as concerns for the reporter's safety was an insult to the intelligence of the American people.
The Communist Chinese government did the same thing shortly before the massacre at Tiananmen Square.
In one of the interviews with the Chinese people over in Tiananmen Square after it happened, One lady was just sobbing and saying, what could we do?
They had all the guns.
What could anybody do?
There were tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people out there.
And when the government rolled in the tanks, it was all over.
They didn't care whether they killed those people or not.
They ran all the reporters out so there wouldn't be any witnesses.
Same thing that they did down in Weigel.
In other parts of China, all they knew was what the government was telling them.
Um, they had heard that these people in Cinnamon Square were a bunch of bad people, a bunch of revolutionaries, and as far as they knew, the government did the right thing.
We were moved back two miles, and I think the media should have protested that, but there should have been some eyes up closer, and I said this from the early beginning, that, okay, Maybe he wants us back there for our own safety.
But you know, when we hired out in this job, most of us hired out knew that we were going to be facing dangerous situations from time to time.
And that's our call.
Although still record denies any government media control, the report of the Waco Task Force published by the Society of Professional Journalists shows that FBI agent Jeff Jamar reminded radio station KRLD that he represents the government which licenses broadcast stations.
A license?
Is permission from the government to do something that would otherwise be illegal.
Bob Boaz is a Christian educator and professional media observer.
The federal government is in a position to control the flow of information in this country in a way that has never existed on the face of this earth and it's done through federal regulatory agencies.
The Federal Communication Commission does control what goes out over the airwaves both on radio and television.
Now, there have been instances of radio stations burning up, of licenses not being renewed, of radio stations and television stations being audited by the IRS to the point they couldn't conduct their business.
And anyone in that business, I'm not in it, but I'm not stupid either.
Anyone in that business that knows, knows that if they go against government policy, Washington, D.C.
policy, they're going to be in trouble.
As the stressors are continually applied to him, he does seem to retreat more and more.
We are concerned that he's perhaps going through a mental decompensation, and that he is, in fact, becoming more delusional.
One month after the deadly raid, agents moved closer to the compound, but not to a resolution.
Agents say Koresh has prearranged suicide attacks with followers.
The same thing happened at Jonestown in Guyana in 1978.
He has to be slain, and there has to be a sufficient number of martyrs.
Those of his followers also have to be slain.
During the siege at Mount Carmel, FBI agents made repeated references to Jonestown, instilling the idea of mass suicide in the minds of the American public.
Anti-cult propaganda never changes.
the media may change, but the kinds of things that are said about author and researcher
Macquail notes that Jim Jones and David Koresh were both targets of the same accusations.
They generally tend to be accused of bizarre sexual practices, that the early Christians
were accused of that, as well as incest and other things that the Roman public at that
time found abhorrent.
In our day, one way to quickly demonize someone in the press in such a way that they'll never
be able to recover their public image and their credibility is to accuse them of being
a child monster.
And that was done in Couric's case.
White has studied the Jim Jones case for many years.
He believes the Jonestown tragedy was not a mass suicide.
The FBI, right after the fire, at its press conference, said that what had happened in Waco was another Jonestown.
Now, by saying that, the FBI has invited us to take a closer look at Jonestown.
Jim Jones wanted absolute control over every person in that compound and he had it.
The same thing is going on right now with Koresh in the compound in Waco.
You know, I see... Ross is a deep programmer for the Cult Awareness Network, which provided ATF officials with all those catchy phrases, like child abuse, child sacrifice, illegal weapons, slavery, aggressive mass destruction, and the alleged suicide attacks.
The history of the Cult Awareness Network, however, bears a closer examination.
In 1959, Fidel Castro overthrew the PSOC's power in Cuba.
Almost immediately, the CIA began plotting his assassination.
One suggestion was the use of mind-altering drugs to make Castro go crazy during a speech, thereby losing his credibility with the Cuban people.
Operation MK-ULTRA was initiated with the help of psychiatrists Dr. Margaret Singer and Louis West.
CIA operative Dr. Margaret Singer was the founder of the American Family Foundation.
Jones had strong ties to the new left of the 70s, to persons like Huey Newton of the Black Panthers and to Dennis Banks of the American Indian movement.
And his church, The People's Temple, was, by his own description, a Marxist organization.
The leader of this Marxist organization, Jim Jones, had a boyhood friend named Dan Vitrione, who eventually went to work for the CIA, specializing in brainwashing techniques.
In 1973, another CIA operator, George Blakey, made the initial $650,000 deposit on the land in Guyana, which became Jonestown.
At the same time, Operation MKUltra began directing its attention on religious cults.
There have been many allegations over the years that in some way the CIA's MKUltra program May have been involved in what happened at Jonestown.
And that perhaps in this way, uh, Jones was manipulated through drugs or hypnosis.
After the tragedy at Jonestown in 1978, Dr. Margaret Singer's American Family Foundation changed its name to the Health Awareness Network.
So it's ironic that Jonestown, which the FBI used to explain away what happened in Waco, This itself is likely conspiracy.
900 people died in the steamy jungle of Guyana, so 100 more on the plains of Central Texas wouldn't matter.
When you have no regard for human life, numbers are not important.
The power of the mind is the power of the heart.
The mind is the power of the heart.
I happened to be over at the Bricky Hotel.
I was seeing Catherine Madison, Branch Davidian, and after I was through visiting of her, I was downstairs talking to Rita Riddle and the phone rang and it was Derek Lovelock saying that he had been released from the County Jail and would somebody come get him.
Derek made it pretty clear in his mind that the people that were back there None of those survived.
They were on the east side away from the camera.
And there are some rumors and reports about people seeing things that went on there.
We don't know how accurate that is.
And we do know The live footage from April 19th of all the major networks did in fact, they stated that they saw 25 to 30 survivors and this was in fact confirmed.
What we know is on the flip side that there are between 25 and 30 survivors.
We have several witnesses that say that they saw 25 to 30 people exiting out these double doors.
in this cafeteria. One of the people that survived the fire and is currently under indictment said
that he came out that door with Jimmy Riddle that day to escape the fire and that these people were
gunned down in cold blood as they tried to escape. I believe from what we hear, the rumors we hear
that obviously they didn't go back in the fire of their own choice and they didn't come out of the
fire so something had to happen to them and yeah I think they were murdered.
Nobody wants to admit that their government could possibly be guilty of such a thing.
But based on what I've found out here over the past five months, I have no choice but to say that they were.
You listened to his music for 20 years?
I still listen to it.
He's been fighting for our rights to keep and bear arms as long as he's had a handgun since he was a kid.
Ted knows you!
Thank you very much.
You noticed.
Well, I'm going to just make a simple statement here, because it's so simple, it's stupid.
Even though he disagrees with David Koresh's motives, rock and roller Ted Nugent has a definite idea about the government's actions.
There are many innocent civilians, dead, Because the ATF abused their powers?
Got the wrong address?
Searched with faulty warrants?
I know this stuff.
It's been documented.
Where is this investigation?
I'd be willing to let Bill get by with Whitewater for a while till we find out who the murderers are in our government.
And that's what's happening.
The ATF, even the FBI, the IRS, these people work for us.
They are responsible to the American people.
They are not being responsible to the American people, and I am deeply saddened.
I am hurt.
The bottom line is, the good people are an asset to America.
Leave us alone.
The only real security of liberty in our country is the jealousy and circumspection of the people themselves.
Let them be watchful over their rulers.
Should they find a combination against them, they have, thank God, the ultimate remedy.
That power which created the government can destroy it.
Should the government on trial be found to want amendments, those amendments can be made in a regular method, in a mode prescribed by the Constitution itself.
I was taught the same things that most of you were taught.
I've learned differently, and we all have that responsibility, and those who died will have died in vain if we leave here today and forget what has happened.
Amen.
Mr. Engelman?
Amen.
Amen.
I'd like now to read the names of all of those that lost their lives here during that 51 days.
Cyrus Howell.
David Parash.
Rachel Howell.
Star Howell.
Sherry Jewel.
David Jones.
Perry Jones.
Michelle Jones.
Serenity C. Jones.
Bobby Lane Parash.
Steve Schneider.
Judy Schneider.
Mayanna Schneider.
Sonya Murray.
Douglas Wayne Martin.
Wayne Martin Jr.
Anita Martin.
Sheila Renee Martin, Lisa Martin, Lloyd Hubb, Peter Jenner, John McPhee,
Peter Hipsman, Ulrich Spatz, Tanobi, Beverly Alley, Floresina,
Susan Benta, Cherry Doyle, Pablo Cohen, Raymond Bryson, Kathy Andrade,
Jennifer Andrade, Janelle Andrade, Mike Schroeder, Sandra Hardile.
The following names we don't have the last names of.
Stone, Sonia, Rebecca, Dabo, and a pair of unnamed twins.
you VATF agents also lost their lives here, and we're here to memorialize all of those who lost their lives.
The following VATF agents are Stephen Willis, Robert J. Williams, Conway LeBeau, Todd Makino.
I think we'd like to spend about a minute just in silent prayer if you don't mind.
I think we'd like to spend about a minute just in silent prayer if you don't mind.
They're here for you!
I bet it's true!
I bet it's true!
From Maine to you!
From D.C.
to you!
Free speech radio!
We are the bravest!
Good night, folks.
Good night, folks.
God bless each and every single one of you.
Good night, Annie.
Kermit, Alison, I love you dearly.
Good night, Kermit.
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