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July 17, 1997 - Bill Cooper
01:02:41
Michele Moore, OKC - Day One
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I'm two.
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This is the Voice of Freedom.
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Thank you for watching.
Once upon a happy tale, we can tell of a good time. Once upon a good group of youth, the good of death, sizzling
with fire.
The good of death, sizzling with fire.
I'm William Cooper.
the you're looking to the power of the time i'm william cooper
conference ninety seven j two 9 a.m.
Michelle Marie Moore.
She spoke for a total of 9 hours that day.
That's not counting breaks.
It's not counting lunch.
It's not counting supper.
When I say she spoke for 9 hours, I mean she spoke, ladies and gentlemen, for 9 hours.
You're going to hear 50 some odd minutes of that 9 hours today.
And you may hear a couple more hours over the next couple of weeks, but that's it.
Make sure that you listen and write down the dates and the prices when the audio tapes and videotapes of the 97 Conference will be available.
And I've got to tell you folks, they're killers.
The way my brain works is I categorize things by subject matter.
If a subject comes up, I can relate it to another subject and relate it to another subject and relate it to another subject and pull them all together.
But I don't think chronologically.
And it was in the process of putting together the actual chronology of what led up to the bombing that most of the pieces finally fell into place as to what really occurred.
Now I've done 26, 28 hours now of radio programming promoting the book.
And one of these very low-on-the-learning-curve disc jockey types, you know, will say, well, Ms.
Moore, could you just tell us what really happened in the Oklahoma City bombing?
It's like, well, you know, how many weeks have you got?
Because you can't do it in the context of a one-hour program.
You can't really do it even in the context of a 10-hour presentation like you're going to have today.
But there will be a lot of material that I know many of you have never heard before.
And I've got some video clips I'm going to show you.
I've got some audio interviews.
I'm going to let you hear so you can hear the actual people telling their stories.
And I think it'll be revealing.
So, let me jump into introductory remarks.
On April the 11th, 1996, shortly before the first anniversary of the bombing, and at a time when there had been a sudden flush of information disclosed about other players in the bombing, plots, subplots, subcontracted assistants, globalist players, and the involvement of foreign governments and so forth, The prosecution of the case of United States v. Timothy James McVeigh felt it necessary to put a lid on everything.
Beth Wilkinson, one of the special attorneys for the U.S.
Attorney General on the prosecution team, Stated it emphatically in a pre-trial hearing and again in the newspapers, quote, As of today, we have no information showing that anyone other than Mr. McVeigh and Mr. Nichols were the masterminds of this bombing.
If anyone knew there was danger in that area and it was not disseminated, then I am mad.
End of quote.
I cannot make the determination for Ms.
Wilkinson whether she meant angry or insane when she used the word mad in that quote, but I've got to say that the trial of Timothy McVeigh was the most unbelievably insane performance that I've ever seen in my life on both sides of that case.
We could easily spend the rest of the week doing nothing but trial analysis, and we're not going to do that, and I'm not prepared to do that.
We'll touch on some things, but we could spend the rest of the week doing nothing but that, and that's how bad it really was.
So, that'll be something we'll have to say for the future.
To give you the contrast, To Ms.
Wilkinson's statement, I would like you to hear defense attorney Stephen Jones' remarks that he made the Sunday after the death sentence was returned by the jury, both on 60 Minutes, and then the comments he made to local television reporters.
Now, the running time of these two video clips is 20 minutes.
Where's Connie?
I'll maybe bill you the money.
We've got to move this video where people can see it.
I said, just get up, move where you can see what's going on.
We'll turn it up loud enough for everybody to be able to hear us.
Okay.
Fine.
I need to plug in, first of all, take one for about 15 minutes and then take two for about five.
I need to plug in, first of all, take one for about 15 minutes and then take two for
about five.
They're all for you, though.
Okay.
and I'm going to take some notes.
And so I got a question.
So I'm going to take notes.
And I'm going to write a note.
His attorney does ask that question, but Joe Van Rafferty, in his only interview, said this client was sentenced to death.
There may have been a German connection and a Mideast connection to that bondage.
Stephen Jones also talked about conversations he had with McVeigh before and after he was sentenced to die.
Did you talk to him?
Did you dialogue with him?
You do have a son, don't you?
Yeah.
Can you tell me anything about that?
Well, yeah, I think I can.
I thank him for the purpose of upbringing me.
I know that his family and friends supported him and loved him.
And they were there to do it.
And, um...
He smiled and shook my hand and said, Well, I expect the worst.
I said, Well, follow me.
After the first was pronounced, you took the briefcase and set it down to the front line.
I said, I will follow you tonight.
I know you walk behind the front gate at night, and you have to shave your head, and you have a lot of hair, mules, that typically is the real number.
I can't tell you either.
Do you believe you have a pretty plan or not?
The jury is trying to be unfair.
But...
It was a whole year apart from the day of the Noble County War Amps.
And I remember thinking like that.
It was wild at the point of being on screen.
They were quite a clever, clever young group.
And not all of us went to the FBI, but a lot of us went to Henry Pritzker's alliance with Bill.
That was a package.
Lawrence jumped to, scurried to me, and surrounded me with a jacket, FBI, and a gray uniform.
If I'm not believing that works, that's for sure, then there's a very good chance that I'm going to die at that point.
Hopefully, but it's just a claim.
Well, it was, and it is, one of the best lives I've ever had, not that we had no game, we had a very good little game.
And even then, with all the things that have happened, I have to tell you that I remember when I first met him, I thought, He was so innocent.
He was so young.
I almost wanted to hold him and hug him, like an older child.
I hadn't anything to do with what happened.
But even in jail, I did apologize for what had happened.
Even though the jury didn't find him to be a patriot, he clearly was.
Up until the time that he made up an end to that, as you already said, he did, as you already pointed out.
But up until that time, he wasn't a man that had a great love of the country.
What happened to him?
I think that the Crabbe-Skeleton Division went into a deeply effective mode.
He was a hero.
A huge, huge cry.
about what happened with him.
He went there and he was perplexed and shuddered.
But I think that perhaps this critical tension, by the way, that didn't allow him to weigh and give value to the millions of humans that were before him, may have failed.
And so we may have found in propaganda That destroys what happens.
Not that I think the Federal Government should quit its test of grace,
fundamentally, in view of its public plan, but I think they impact me in a very bad way.
Fair or unfair on the basis of European philosophy and pre-American Europeanism,
is there somewhere along the line a mismatch?
No, I wouldn't say that.
The DC series is over, as we said.
I don't think I've ever heard you use those terms, so I would say that she does not have a decent relationship.
I think him with this area himself a patriot.
I think he would identify in his training with men and women who fought the British.
I don't think he could make those views funny.
I don't know that this attack on the federal government of New York City was anybody's.
And by attacking the government of the people of the United States, it was an attack on every American.
You'd really scream.
I don't think I could, to be really honest with you.
You think that they would really scream for me, you know?
I don't know.
What kind of a miracle does Simon Graham have?
Very, very devilish, with these thoughts.
He is a strong supporter of the Second Amendment, and God knows when he'll step back down the road and question the country for probably years.
I was able to do this quite a couple of days.
We did a couple of things with Tim McRae himself.
One was a letter saying, quote, I've grown the intellectual to the animal, unquote.
What did he mean by that?
I don't know.
He wrote that letter to a friend of his in upstate Michigan.
And, uh, figure out a friend, but not a romanticist, but someone that he has an emotional bond with.
Um, you know, I don't know what you meant by that.
Some of them you don't know.
There's some very low-key, too-low-key, capitals, lack of a plan.
Well, I can't hear what you're telling me.
I think so, but I'm so doubtful, so I don't think anybody would otherwise.
I can't hear anybody tell me. I think those on the sociology of circumstances and on the
underlying, there are now that that was written after the being of Ray Wendell.
But, I myself, and I've played some other contestants, I've written some pretty hard-hitting
I don't believe he wanted to kill our family, but there had to be something more than what it was.
There had to be something more than what it was.
There had to be something Well, you're assuming that the jury's verdict is the true, correct fact, right?
Well, and for purposes of the interview, I understand that there's a second test, but it likely takes tomorrow.
There is also an esoterical body of evidence that indicates that he is not a juridic finder, but a juridic hearer by evidence.
There's also some evidence that suggests he's got a conscience, but he's still there, and he may have been a pestilence, and he may have been used and involved by others in a sort of a mean fall guy and permitted himself to be abused, and his views about Greco were taken over and used as an inducement.
If either of you say, I'm going to be tested, what would you think would be a better option?
What would you think would be one better option?
I don't know.
I can only speculate based upon what I have to say.
You should just be a very humble person, know more about the farm than you can that, I'm quoting you directly here, doesn't mean you can't tell tales.
My attorney is one of the first to know more about God.
Are you another person?
I can't tell you.
Does this mean that you may need me?
Well, it actually does.
Maybe not, but I can't answer that question.
Because?
I just can't.
You didn't turn your mind to relationships?
Well, sir, that would be a terrible policy.
But I just can't.
Now I want to ask you, what do you know from people?
Well, I know that others have been through going through a lot of suffering several years ago.
I know that same group of people thought they would be the next target of the war.
I know that they were told to prepare.
I know they have copies of homemade people's books.
They have bookers.
I know that they have connections in Germany.
I know the people that have connections within Germany have connections in the Middle East.
I know some of those people often.
I know that the very few of those who do know what needs to be done is from that religion.
I know this information came to the federal government through an informant regularly called West, who passed them, who was paid $7,000 for this information, and who was determined to be reliable and credible.
I know that there are people that swear that on the morning of April the 19th, they saw
$50 in the federal complex in downtown Oklahoma City, and very nearby, bombs, bombs and trucks
from the Oklahoma Town Sheriff's Office have suggested that the government had some information
indicated that the federal government in Oklahoma City could be at risk. They had a superficial
sheriff who told them they were not correct. And then, when the government blew up, they
could not handle it anymore, so they moved.
That's a hypothesis.
There is evidence that suggests that.
I do not know if that is what happened.
Give me my notes, I want to make sure I have this quote correctly.
He's quoting an instruction that many people interpret as not a demon, but a skillful one.
He says, He is not a demon, though his hand was surely demonic.
Unquote.
Well, you have to put it in the context of what you see.
I began my voice of argument by saying, we accept your voice.
I do not challenge your voice to hear.
To hear is important.
We're in a time of salvation where you try, a certain thing tries to create an emotion for the child, and I want to hear it.
But, in the confines, in the intellectual confines, if you will, of the rules of the game, as I have said, science has seen the correctness of the world.
So, they have cleared themselves of guilt.
How many years do you think it would take?
Just to get all the alerts off?
None of the best, thereabouts.
Probably four.
You don't think Democracy would be as beautiful as it is?
I do not.
So, do you want to die a martyr?
No.
No.
Do you consider yourself an evil person?
No.
No.
What?
Well, I know his full story.
you Some of it I cannot tell.
The jury is correct.
They've read that.
But I don't think that it is wrong.
And even if it were wrong, it should be that other people would meet most folks that we should meet.
It's not a problem.
It's not a matter of that.
You can't tell us anything.
And he does anything that might convince somebody that he is an evil.
Well, I think we're walking now.
That's it for this episode.
I hope you've seen that.
I think you've seen that.
I've got a plan for a mission.
Perhaps someday, I'm sure it'll be clear to us that it's unfortunate that we have to come to another time.
Plus, we've come to an end of the show.
Possibly.
We thank you with every ball of our hearts.
The trial was reported as the likes of the client made himself as accessible to world
reporters as Timothy McGraven or even Stephen Jones did during the last...
...the last trial.
I don't think so.
I don't think so.
I don't think it's appropriate for me to speak for a woman, and yet you do, so please feel free to do so.
So you think, well, there's three parts to that question.
The first is whether he wants to, and the second is whether the government will permit him under the humanitarian legislation.
But I don't know that he wants to.
So you think Speaking of that, if there was any time for there to be any change over the next few years, what would it be?
I'd give all of you a thumbs-up.
We've got a long run with our panel of guidance, and we'll get there in just a moment.
By all means, this is a major buzz.
Stay down there.
Well, the trial is essentially being over now.
By the way, it wasn't easy, or simply very expensive.
Me and my excellent project team are going to head back to settle a court for me and Sheldon Hickson down there.
But we've got a substantial responsibility to take care of some of the administrative stuff that is mightily valuable on the part of Sheldon.
Before that little drone sat down and decided to stand aside, the young sailors had a bold prediction.
They claimed that in a minute they were moving up on the impossible in Oklahoma.
They had a good idea of where they were going now as they slowed this revolution down.
So this type of law and order was made by a young man who didn't even know he was going to be sentenced to die from bombing in Oklahoma.
He was never in good health and was not going to say what he was going to say in court.
He was going to be seen as just a young sailor's wife, and he was interviewed to speak in court.
You know, we were meant, by God's favor, upon the very nature of the truth, as opposed to some political scientists.
I wouldn't fit into that kind of space, but I would demand that we use the same thought.
But they did all the talking.
when George said he'd play in his name.
George said the government will not allow him to play in the crowd
because he and George would be open up.
George would need to be scared to do it, and other players would watch him how.
He'd be a chance to fall if he heard he could have time allowed to be on his plane.
All doors, George said the government, once had closed.
But he was in my team.
The Department of Justice was no longer on the set in front of the crowd.
I don't know if it reminded him of the band, or it reminded him of the Charlton community,
but it really did.
It really made me emotional.
And what happens to Oklahoma?
What happens to us?
Don't let our home, don't let me finish that line.
Oklahoma, don't let the federal government and federal banks tell you that it's all fine.
Most of them do.
And they're not.
I don't think so.
Do you think that we'll ever find out if it was really fun?
Probably not.
But don't you think that you can get through all this by the end of the show so that you can have a go at what's going on in the whole thing?
That's great.
I'm glad you like it.
Stephen Jones said, don't let Bob Macy, don't let the Attorney General of Oklahoma, don't let the federal government, executive branch, tell you that they've solved the crime.
Most assuredly, they have not.
But on the other hand, neither has Stephen Jones.
If we had previously thought, in November 1995, that there would technically be no accurate and revealing defense of Timothy McVeigh after Stephen Jones announced that the federal government would not be on trial in this case, and that he had no questions concerning the whereabouts of miscellaneous federal agents on the morning of the bombing, well, we were right.
There wouldn't be a defense.
But the worst was yet to come.
Shortly before the defense was to begin presenting its case in Denver, Judge Richard Mage ruled in a closed door conference that none of the material indicative of an international conspiracy and none of the testimony of DAPF agent Carol Howe, I'm sorry, informant Carol Howe, would be admitted into the trial.
This limited the defense to extremely narrow confines.
Uh, as has been presented by the prosecution.
And to make such a ruling, especially after the opening statements had already been made, on the one hand gave the defense a life insurance policy for appeal.
But on the other hand, it meant that the state would have no defense whatsoever other than the predictable and propagandistic Waco anger defense, and this of course was deliberate.
It is my personal belief That it was necessary to obtain a guilty verdict and a death sentence by any means, at any cost, thus handling that pesky nuisance of unpredictable jurors.
But I also believe that it was necessary to make certain that adequate and persuasive grounds for appeal were deliberately provided.
I'll make a very bold prediction here, one that I'm not quite certain of yet, but it's certainly a very real possibility.
Recognizing that the anti-terrorism bill, which became public law 104-132 in 1996, has yet to be tested by the Supreme Court, and recognizing that it is absolutely essential to the completion of the totalitarian plan of this country that that law be solidified by the Supreme Court testing in order for that completion to occur, I can feel fairly confident that the jury verdict will be overturned on appeal to the 10th Circuit, so that it can be ruled upon by the Supreme Court.
And while it is true that the Supreme Court normally reduces 98% of all criminal cases,
the Oklahoma City bombing case is the test case for the anti-terrorism legislation.
Many, many, many things hinge upon the Supreme Court upholding the lower court's ruling
and reinstating the jury's original verdict.
But by allowing the Supreme Court to rule on it, precedent will be set against which future cases
will be ruled or denied appeal because the Supreme Court made a rule.
Isn't that great?
You can be certain they'll find a way to do this.
To make the anti-terrorism legislation somehow, suddenly, strangely enough, become constitutionally aligned.
I don't know how they'll pull this off, but I feel fairly confident that they will manage.
My opinion in this was not at all swayed By their ruling this past week on the Sheriff Max case.
Yeah, they did the right thing there.
They stood by the Second Amendment there.
They stood by that the federal government couldn't make county officials, state officials, enforce federal regulations.
And as a general rule, the Supreme Court does the right thing.
But I don't believe they're going to do the right thing here because too much is at stake.
Everything changes on this, as far as the bringing about of the totalitarian state in the United States.
So they're going to have to play ball on this one.
And I'm sure they're ready for it.
The legal maneuvering that will be necessary to bring this about is already happening.
And it seems to me more apparent every day that this is the ultimate objective of this entire ordeal.
The stakes are tremendously high for the bad guys and for the good guys.
So here we are at the proverbial crossroads in this proverbial moment of truth.
Again, this is it. Again, one of the strongest indications to me that this alarming scenario could be playing itself
out is the rejection without comment by the 10th Circuit Court
of Appeals of Ms. Bay's decision for writ of mandamus, which was filed on March 25, 1997, barely a week before the
jury's election process began.
Thank you.
On solid legal grounds, to turn over to the defense discovery materials that it had in its possession to which the defendant was entitled.
Materials which not only might have demonstrated the portion in the bombing that McVeigh did play, but also might have in true Terry Mason style revealed the actual perpetrators right before the final commercial break.
However, had that petition been granted by the Tenth Circuit Court, there would have been no way The judge could have barred the international terrorist conspiracy defense, nor could he have barred the testimony of BACF informant Carol Howe.
Without the barring of those two elements of the defense, the prosecution's case would have been in big, big trouble.
It was already in big, big trouble.
The original McVeigh defense will, of course, eventually be heard, because the hearing of it, and the public outrage at what they will hear, is also essential to create the chaos out of which the New World Order boys intend to impose their form of order.
But before that could occur, the uncontrollable, unpredictable, and variable element had to be disposed of.
Now what element would that be?
The jury.
The jury, the judgment of the American people.
They couldn't do anything if they didn't have that.
For starters, the uproar would have been just too great.
You know, if they had some bribe, a three-judge tribunal, and a judgment they guilty, then a lot of people in this country, whether they thought that they did it or not, would have been upset because the judicial process was not observed and followed step-by-step.
They have to play the game as the rules exist, and then they have to twist them to achieve what they wish to achieve.
So, had Jones been allowed at that time, at the lower court level, to present the defense he had prepared, there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that reasonable doubt would have prevailed.
Time and time again, before the trial even began, the prosecution kept shooting itself in the foot.
And the magnitude of the damage control that was rapidly constructed over and over was just astonishing to watch.
In what can only be termed a move of Acute desperation.
The prosecution offered defendant McVeigh a plea agreement in December of 1995.
The terms of that agreement were that McVeigh would plead guilty to the bombing in exchange for a 10-year prison term to be carried out in a foreign prison, a new identity when he got out, and a new life under the Federal Witness Protection Program.
This proposed plea agreement was rejected.
And the prosecution's problems were not going to go away all that easily.
It was later revealed that three of the top seven witnesses for the prosecution had prior felony convictions.
And the fourth eyewitness had a long history of blurred vision documented by a loss of workers' compensation document.
And this is going to be an eyewitness.
It was well publicized that the prosecution was not going to present any witnesses at all who took part in the stay in Oklahoma City on the day of the bombing.
Although they did exist.
Dozens of them.
But there was a reason for that too.
It was announced that the prosecution was not even going to address certain matters contained in the indictment, such as the building of the bomb at the Gary State Fishing Lake near Junction City, Kansas, the theft of firearms, ammunition, coins, currency, precious metals, and other property from Roger Moore in Arkansas, or the sale of those stolen firearms with the intent to finance the purchase of the bomb materials.
It was discovered that witness Tom Kessinger, a former employer of the Ryder Rental Agency, where one of the McVeighs rented the bomber vehicle, had been sentenced to a four-year prison term in 1987 after pleading guilty to conspiracy to manufacture PCP and methamphetamine.
Adding to this sterling credibility factor was the embarrassing fact that on the day he appeared to testify in Denver, Kessinger was also scheduled to appear in a Kansas courtroom to answer on another felony charge.
It became known that Kessinger had repeated run-ins with the cops since he was a teenager for drugs, assault, theft, and white feuding, equally damaging to his credibility, if that were enough.
was the fact that he had changed his testimony to conform with the prosecution's desire to make the missing John Doe II disappear.
There were also confirmed reports that he had bragged to others of his participation in the bombing case with Megan Rich.
It was common knowledge that one of the prosecution's key witnesses, Michael Fortier, agreed to testify against his own Army buddies, Nefey and Nicholson, in exchange for a reduced sentence for himself and immunity from prosecution for his wife.
Fortier pleaded guilty to four felony counts involving transportation of stolen firearms, which they never actually addressed in the case of being stolen, making false statements to authorities, and knowing about the bomb plot and failing to warn authorities.
It was undeniable that Fortier had very strong and obvious motives to perform for the prosecution, thereby sparing himself from the death penalty.
It became known that the prosecution would present no witnesses to conclusively prove where, when, or even if McVeigh built the bomb.
The ineptitude and manipulation of the FBI lab test results was already a national scandal.
In an attempt to defend FBI lab procedures and results, Prosecutor Beth Wilkinson stupidly disclosed on November 14, 1995, that only 6 of 404 FBI tests showed positive results for high explosives.
Her logic was that 398 negative tests must surely contradict defense claims of widespread contamination in the FBI lab.
In the same discussion, it was explained that only one small piece of evidence had ammonium nitrate residue on it, and that that residue consisted of nothing more than one almost microscopic crystal.
Realizing after the fact that Wilkinson's admissions had just proved the presence of high explosives in the bombing evidence, and the almost total absence of ammonium nitrate residue, of which there should have been a great gob, the foundation had been laid for the discussion in court of the use of high explosives in the bombing and the very real possibility that there was no significantly large anthro-bomb at all.
And this could have easily led to the evidence of those high explosives being placed inside the building.
This was but one of a hundred disastrous moments for the prosecution before this trial began.
And before things got out of hand, they had to make a big move.
It suddenly became necessary to keep the entire matter of the FBI lab scandal at as low a profile as possible.
This meant not only dropping several key witnesses that the prosecution had intended to call, but it also meant that Judge Mace needed to intervene and refused to allow the FBI report in its entirety to be entered into evidence.
This he did, allowing only small excerpts to be considered by the jurors in their deliberations.
And there are literally hundreds and hundreds of other similar situations in this case that, to me, are clear indications that a great work is in progress and it has not yet achieved its ultimate objectives.
The possibility and probability of an acquittal simply could not be risked.
The prosecution had to very narrowly define its case so that it would be impossible to defend against as long as the prepared defense was disallowed.
Judge Mace was happy to oblige.
He waited, however, until May the 21st, 1997, the day before the defense was to begin presenting its case, and long after opening statements had been made, to announce that the evidence of the international conspiracy in the bond was irrelevant, and none of that material would be admitted into testimony.
The timing of the ruling is, in itself, quite interesting.
Let's pretend for a moment that Jones didn't know this was coming.
Had the defense known when the trial began that it was not going to be allowed to present its case as prepared, you would have heard a quite different opening statement from Stephen Jones.
And the cross-examination of the prosecution witnesses would have most assuredly been handled differently than it was.
Changing defense strategy in midstream is an almost always fatal undertaking.
And in this case, that change of strategy was forced upon the defense by the judge who knew exactly what he was doing.
Now there is, of course, the possibility that Stephen Jones also knew what he was doing.
But since I can't prove that, I'm going to just say, yeah, I think you probably do, but hey, I can't prove it, so we'll give him the benefit of the doubt.
Then, on the afternoon of Tuesday, May the 27th, 1997, Judge Mace ruled that DATF informant Carol House's testimony was also irrelevant to the Oklahoma City bombing case and would not be allowed.
She had been expected to testify that very afternoon or the next morning.
An astute journalist for the Rocking Mountain News wrote at the close of the trial, quote, An iron fist controls the Oklahoma City bombing trial of Timothy McVeigh.
And no one, prosecutors, defense attorneys, or even victims, misstook whose fist that was.
Mache was king of his court.
The case against McVeigh was one of the most secretive in American history.
Only a small portion of the pleadings filed in the case have been available for public viewing.
Mache ordered the large majority of filings suppressed from the public, and they are still sealed.
End quote.
By virtue of just these few things that I've briefly mentioned here,
and there are many, many other similar items that we could discuss.
The prosecution was given the means to achieve a shrewd fire conviction.
The entire defense case was suppressed.
More than adequate grounds for appeal were provided.
The death sentence was given.
That death sentence carries an automatic appeal, and the Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals, which barely two months earlier had refused to even consider John's petition for writ of mandatement, will now consider that evidence, the material contained in the petition.
Maysh made more than enough controversial rulings to almost guarantee that the jurist's verdict will be overturned.
And from there we find ourselves standing before the bench at the United States Supreme Court, where official legal precedent will be set to forever assure the contrived legitimacy of the provisions of Anti-Terrorism Public Law 104-132.
I'd like to give you a small taste of the case that will be presented at the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals.
And this will provide for you a small indication of the defense that Shawns was prepared to present on behalf of McVeigh, had he been allowed to do so.
So I'm going to read you six of the introductory paragraphs of the defendant's petition for writ of mandamus, and from there, we will examine some history.
Quote, the plan was arranged by a mid-eastern bombing engineer to engineer the bomb in such a way that it could be carefully transported and successfully detonated.
There is no reported incident of neo-Nazis or extreme right-wing militants in this country exploding any bomb of any significant size, let alone one to bring down a nine-story federal building and kill 168 persons.
In fact, not even members of the left-wing militant groups, such as the Weathermen, were ever able to accomplish anything of this magnitude.
This terrorist attack was contracted out to persons whose organization and ideology was friendly to policies of the foreign power, and included dislike and hatred of the United States government itself, and possibly included what they desired for revenge against the United States with possible anti-Black and anti-Semitic overthrows.
Because Iraq had tried a similar approach in 1990 but had been thwarted by Syrian intelligence information given to the United States, this time the information was passed through an Iraqi intelligence base in the Philippines.
Operating out of the Philippines as a base, the state-sponsored terrorists, with the Murrah building already chosen as the target, enlisted the support and assistance of members of the Radical American Right.
The defense believes the evidence suggests that American neo-Nazis were chosen to carry out the bombing of the Murrah Building because of a shared ideological bench of hatred against the American government.
It is possible that those who carried out the bombing were unaware of the true sponsor.
The evidence collected by the defense suggests that the desired ideology was found by the state-sponsored terrorists in Elohim City, a small compound near Mulder, Oklahoma, consisting of between 25 and 30 families, and described as a terrorist organization which preaches white supremacy, polygamy, and overthrow of the government.
Elohim City was a haven for former members of the Covenant, the Sword, and the Arm of the Lord, CFA.
Another extremist organization that had been raided by the federal government on April 19, 1985, exactly 10 years to the day prior to the Oklahoma City bombing.
One member of the CSA turned on the organization and testified in court at the trial of Richard Snell and others who were charged in Arkansas with sedition, in that they had aspired to destroy the Albuquerque Memorial Building in Oklahoma City when the rocket launch were in the early 1980s.
Snell was convicted of unrelated capital charges and sentenced to death in Arkansas.
He was executed the day of the Oklahoma City bombing, April 19, 1995, and is buried in Hellenew City.
It is from this group of people that the defense believes that the evidence suggests foreign, state-sponsored terrorists groomed the most radical persons associated with Ellicott City and extracted monumental revenge against the federal government by destroying the Murrah Building on the day of Richard Snell's execution and the anniversary day of the federal raid.
The defense hypothesis also entails evidence, very strong evidence, that the federal government, through the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms, had an informant in Elohim City, an informant who warned federal law enforcement prior to April 19, 1995, that former residents, including the former Chief of Security of Elohim City, were planning to target for disruption federal buildings in Oklahoma, including the Albuquerque Murrah Building.
The defense believes that this scenario is true, That it is eerily similar to the World Trade Center bombing where the FBI had an informant infiltrate the terrorist group but failed to stop that criminal act, and that, absent judicial intervention, information concerning these matters in the possession of the federal government will be forever buried.
The defense commission of BAE is not engaged in a phishing expedition.
As the information set forth in this petition demonstrates, the McVeigh defense, using resources provided to it by the District Court, has conducted a wide-ranging and increasingly narrow-focused investigation.
But without subpoena power, without the right to take depositions, and without access to national intelligence information, the McVeigh defense can go no further."
End quote.
And it did not go any further than that.
And there is a further that needs to be considered.
And that's what we're going to talk about today.
In order for you to fully understand this course of events, just a minute.
In order for you to fully understand this course of events, I need to first introduce you to Mr. Terry Gagin,
who two weeks ago, during the weekend of June 21st, spent hours of what can only be described as hyperactive
testimony in the Alpena City area.
And he met with all of the independent investigators working in that area and people from out of town and came to meet with him.
He's quite, quite a character.
The most efficient way, I think, to introduce you to him is to just read you a few paragraphs written by Bill Jasper, who writes for the New American Magazine.
Now, the New American Magazine is, as most of you know, the monthly publication of the John Birch Society.
And, in my thinking, that is a somewhat compromised source.
In my opinion, I'm entitled to it.
However, because I am absolutely certain of the specific excerpts that I've taken out to read to you, I think it's more efficient if I just read his stuff because he wrote it well and it says what I would have said and saved me some time.
But you do have to very carefully weigh everything that comes out of the magazines.
Look, Terry Gagin, a man in his early fifties, is a federal informant who had received immunity from the U.S.
Justice Department when he provided them with specific information regarding claims to a local federal building in April 1995, months before the bombing actually took place.
The government has since belittled Gagin's information and has attempted to portray him as unstable and unreliable.
However, after meeting with Gagin and reviewing his information and documentation, the New American is persuaded that the major media have been altogether too hasty in accepting the government's decree of Gagin's unreliability.
And I too think they have been too hasty.
What he has to say about this case can be documented.
He very deliberately left a very deliberate paper trail.
So, we're going to discuss all that stuff.
Continue in here.
On September 14, 1994, United States Attorney for the District of Colorado, Henry L. Solano, and Assistant United States Attorney, James R. Allison, for the same district, provided a letter of immunity for Gagin, who is from Denver.
And this letter, by the way, appears on pages 390 and 391 of Oklahoma City, day one.
The letter signed by Allison and Gagan is an agreement regarding information concerning a conspiracy and or attempts to destroy the United States court facilities in Denver and possibly other cities.
Under the terms of the letter Gagan was told, the United States agrees that no evidence derived from the information or statements provided by you will be used in any way against you.
Gideon claims to have been recruited by Arabs or Iranians operating through Mexico to deliver explosives for a series of planned bombings of federal buildings in Denver, Phoenix and Oklahoma City.
At various meetings in Las Vegas, Denver, and Kingman, Arizona, he met with Omar and Ahmaud.
Now, I can't tell you if these are the real names of these guys, but in detail, they are known as Omar and Ahmaud.
And other representatives of the Hezbollah terrorist organization, as well as male Caucasian American citizens.
In a civil suit filed in the U.S.
District Court in Denver against Delano, Allison, and others for violation of the immunity agreement, Gagin writes, On March 17, 1995, in this meeting at the Hilton Inn South in Greenwood Village, Colorado, where Plankett was present with three members of this terrorist organization, displayed on the table were the construction plans of the Alfred Murrah Federal Building, bearing the name J.W.
Bates & Company of Dallas, Texas, with one of these terrorists allegedly traveling to Denver for this meeting from Oklahoma City, Oklahoma.
On March 27, 1995, and again on April 6, Gagin delivered urgent written warnings
to federal authorities in Denver, alerting them to an imminent bombing attack.
He insists that he followed up these with repeated telephone calls, all of which were ignored.
In a handwritten warning of April 6 to US Marshal Tina Rowe, Gagin said,
Rowe, after leaving Denver for what I thought would be a long time, I returned here last night because I have specific information that within two weeks, a federal building is to be bombed in the area or nearby.
The previous requests I made for you to contact me, the 27th and 8th of March, 1995, were ignored by you, Mr. Allison, and my friends at the FBI.
I would not ignore this specific request for you personally to contact me immediately regarding a plot to blow up a federal building.
If the information is false, request Mr. Allison to charge me accordingly.
If you and or your office does not contact me as I so request, I will never again contact any law enforcement agency, federal or state, regarding those matters set out in the letter of immunity.
Signed, Terry Gagin.
After interviewing Terry Gagin and examining his documents, In light of other known facts in this case, the New American finds that his claims have far more credibility than do those of the officials who have been attempting to debunk them over the past few years.
In a February 1, 1996 letter to Gagin, Solano and Allison wrote, Attempts by federal law enforcement officers to meaningfully corroborate information you have alleged to be true have been unsuccessful.
Therefore, the immunity granted by the letter of September 14, 1994 is hereby revoked.
Moreover, you are warned that any statement you make which would incriminate you in illegal conduct past, present, or future can be used against you.
You are no longer protected by the immunity granted by the letter of September 14, 1994.
And that is the present state of Mr. Dagan at this time.
He is unprotected.
He is guilty, as you will soon see, of actively participating in the preparations for both the internal and the external explosions that destroyed the Murr building.
He is without cover.
He is surveilled and stalked by both his friends and his enemies because of what he knows, what he did, and who he is telling.
The fact that he did what he did with the blessing of the United States federal government agencies and on their behalf doesn't seem to matter to them anymore.
Mr. Gage is a man who has absolutely nothing to lose.
We, of course, have a similar situation with B.A.T.S.
informant Carol Howe, who when it became known that she was going to be a witness for the defense, was immediately indicted.
I mean, really, in a big hurry, like in one day.
They indicted her in Tulsa on really flimsy charges of conspiracy to make explosives or some such nonsense, some similar rap.
And the rumors began instantly flying about alleged drug abuse, unreliability, flakiness in general.
This whole way of discrediting people who worked on behalf of the federal government when the federal government doesn't want them to tell the truth should be a pattern that's really easily recognizable by all of you now.
It should be pretty familiar.
So what I want to do is take a look at this event, how it developed, who was playing, what the witnesses said, and so forth.
We won't even be up to April the 19th by supper time, I imagine, because this is going to be quite an interesting historical overview.
I'm going to start the chronology of the bombing in 1980, because that's when things actually began happening.
And I think if you'll keep track of what I said before you, You'll see if I did something extremely interesting and revealing just the visions of names, dates, places, and events.
Now, how long have I been talking right now?
Are we over an hour?
One hour.
One hour?
Would you mind if we just take a short break?
An hour and five minutes.
Can we take a short break?
Would that be alright?
As long as it's short.
Short.
Five minutes, please.
Is that back door open?
Yeah, you're here.
Okay.
All right, are we ready?
Everybody?
Alright.
All right.
In 1980 and 81, the man who was to become a longstanding and highly paid government
informant for the FBI, the DEA, and the U.S.
Marshals Service, as well as a major player in the Oklahoma City bombing, Gary Gagin, was recruited by the Russian Embassy in Mexico City to do some minor forging of identification documents for some of the people that they wanted to get into the United States.
After this initial contact with the Soviets, Gagin was recruited along with his work partner at Martin Marietta, a man named Dan Howard, to smuggle technological secrets out of the company and give them to the Russians.
Gagin reported all of these activities to the FBI, who encouraged him to continue working with the Russians as an undercover agent for their agency.
From 1983 through 1986, Gagin made Iranian and Iraqi contacts through the Russians.
These Arabian men were presenting themselves at the time as Columbians and spoke Arabic, English, and Spanish fluently.
His assignments at this time involved drug running and money laundering.
Gagin reported these activities to the FBI and the DEA.
DEA agent Richard Gregory became his contact within the agency, and they had continued contact through and after the Oklahoma City bombing.
On April 19, 1985, on this day exactly 10 years prior to the bombing of the Murrah Federal Building, the federal government conducted a raid on a white separatist group in Arkansas known as the Covenant, the Sword, and the Arm of the Lord, or CSA for short.
Members of the CSA now reside at Elohim City, including Jim Ellison, the CSA's director at the time of the federal raid.
And that's about it for today, ladies and gentlemen.
years in prison after the raid, Ellison served only two years and agreed to turn state evidence
against a group of men accused of sedition.
This was the Fort Smith Sedition Trial.
All of them were acquitted and then was placed under the Federal Witness Protection Program
and now lives at Ellington Station.
And that's about it for today, ladies and gentlemen.
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