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June 24, 1996 - Bill Cooper
59:27
Michele Moore – OKC
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Thank you.
Thank you.
I'm William Cooper.
You're listening to the Hour of the Time.
I'm William Cooper.
Ladies and gentlemen, there is nothing new under the sun.
The Roman Senator Cicero implemented a plan to invoke the ultimate decree of the Senate, a declaration of martial law which would permit summary execution of, quote, outlaws, end quote, and the suspension of provocatio, the ancient right of appeal to the people in capital cases.
Cicero said Rome's enemy was within.
He used slogans such as the plot against liberty, pernicious designs of nefarious citizens, seditious plots against the present form of government, passionate men always disposed for violence ready for revolution.
Cicero fostered an atmosphere of prejudice and hysteria in which any proposal for the reinforcement of constitutional rights would be denounced as a cover for conspiracy.
Constitutionists were assassinated or exiled.
The followers of the most dangerous were massacred.
Cicero warned against patriots and veterans who would not excel as farmers that might take up arms against the Senate.
A law forbade anyone carrying arms within the gates of Rome.
When no real subversives could be found, Cicero or his confederates hired thugs to beat and rob citizens who were considered sacrifices for the greater good of the empire.
If the political opposition was particularly strong, a government building or a temple might be burned.
There was a new order.
The Romans were great propagandists, fooling themselves and their slaves into believing Rome represented the defender of liberty, justice and peace for the world.
Arthur Kahn wrote in his Julius Caesar, Cicero adopted the prophetic magniloquence of the newly popular Eastern mystical cults, which preached an eternal war of the armies of light against the forces of darkness.
and promise initiates eternal happiness after death through the grace of divine Redeemers.
Cicero, it appears, was a Freemason.
The German National Socialist Workers' Party, or Nazis, promoted mysticism and lectured about the armies of light against the forces of darkness.
The SS required their candidates be given an occult education culminating in the officer's initiation into the new religion.
When Herr Hitler could not muster enough votes to control Germany, he burned the Reichstag, Germany's Congress.
He labeled his political enemies responsible and rounded up his opposition literally overnight.
Hitler seized power over all Germany.
Hitler spoke of a new order of the world.
To confidence he whispered of spirit visitors.
The Jew became the enemy within the gates.
The Nazis were also masters of propaganda.
The same scenario is presenting again.
The ancient mystery religion has risen like the phoenix and taken wing as the New Age movement.
President Clinton speaks of an eternal war of the armies of light against the forces of darkness.
Hillary was just caught performing seances in the White House.
There is a new world order.
When the omnibus counter-terrorism bill languished in Congress with no hope of passage, the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City was bombed.
The President spoke of those who sacrificed.
A year of lies and propaganda followed.
The anti-terrorism bill passed into law, giving government almost the same powers Cicero sought and Hitler obtained.
Once again, a republic is moving to oligarchy, then to dictatorship.
The people, as in Rome, as in Germany, haven't a clue.
The people, as in Rome, as in Rome, as in Rome, have a clue.
The people, as in Rome, as in Rome, have a clue.
Thank you, good evening.
How are you?
Pretty good.
What are we going to talk about tonight?
Well, we need to deal with some rumors in this area, probably first.
Okay, let's do that.
Okay, um, two days last week, rumors were flying in this area that a large militia meeting was going to be held, which would be Now, I have not been able to turn up any evidence whatsoever that this militia meeting is scheduled or did occur or will occur.
But the problem that we face here are the parties involved in promoting the rumor and the ones who, if it ever occurs, are the organizers of it.
I know these people, so this is a difficult thing for me to do.
But we're going to be talking specifically about a man by the name of J.D.
Burkhart, his close associate, Tal and Betty Roncroft, and several of their other associates, because we're dealing here with agent provocateurs who are bringing down the militias in the state.
Okay.
Give us a little background on this.
Okay.
This is a very convoluted story, so bear with me.
I'm going to try to make this all make sense.
Judy Burkhardt is a licensed private detective, and he now operates his business out of his home, having shut down his official office, which is located in the Dell City, Midwest City area, east of Oklahoma City, and his business is called Case Closed Investigations.
He is approximately 54 years old.
About 5 foot 11, 185 pounds, has sort of a biker look.
He has graying dark hair, long to the collar, a full dark beard, which is not graying, and this full dark beard covers shrapnel scars, which he received in Vietnam.
He also has scars on his legs.
He's right hand dominant.
On his left hand, the ring and middle fingers thereof have two finger joints missing from combat injuries.
He smoked cigarettes, is in generally poor health, has stomach and respiratory problems, and suffers from high blood pressure.
He was, uh, pretty badly blown up in Vietnam, and, uh, where he served with the Army Special Services, Special Forces, and, uh, he's also a pilot and has his private pilot's license, and left the military on a medical discharge.
In addition, he is a card-carrying, ordained Mormon minister, a close friend of Bogreit's, Lived in Nevada several years ago and ran around with Bryce when he was hanging in Las Vegas in his office before he closed it down.
He featured a photo of himself shaking hands with General Westmoreland and tells anyone who asks that he's known Janet Reno since she was in Dade County, Florida.
Think she's a great gal and can't quite figure out why everybody's on her case.
Oh, brother.
Okay.
He now lives in Jones, Oklahoma, west of Oklahoma City, where at one time he served as the mayor and the presiding judge of Jones about 10 years ago.
And he headed up the mayor's board task force for obtaining federal grants for the police department there.
And at one time, the Jones Police Department was better equipped and trained with the high-tech stuff than the Oklahoma City operations was.
That's a little bit about his background.
He first became associated with what was then known as the Oklahoma Citizens Militia, Oklahoma City Branch, in late 1994, because he was a friend and associate of a man named Philip Plumlee.
Philip Plumlee was the head negotiator for the Kinker Civilian Employees Union, and an ex-SEAL, and he worked for JB as a private investigator.
The militias were looking for a meeting hall at that time to hold their meetings, and for a while, They met in the Union Hall, and it was because of Plumlee's involvement in that area that J.D.
became associated with that militia group.
Plumlee brought in other guests, J.D.
began attending the meetings, and before you knew it, he was in charge of security of the Oklahoma Citizens Militia, Oklahoma City Branch, and it was his job to train people, do background checks, and basically carry on investigations.
At that time, in late 1994, there was a much closer connection between the different branches of the Oklahoma Citizens Militia and the Common Law Courts that now exist.
That whole connection has been severed.
But at that time, in late 1994, there was a connection and J.D.
Burkhart was extremely interested in finding out everything he could about the Common Law Courts.
And while this was all occurring, An independent common law type named Gideon Cowan had begun filing common law liens against banks and selling these liens to foreign investors and the money was to be transferred back to the states, etc., etc., the same old story.
At the first common law court meeting in Kingfisher, Oklahoma, Dean Schroeder came and spoke and this was held at the Lake Eufaula Lodge.
Now while the common law court meeting was going on, At the same lodge, the regional meeting of the BATF was being held, so J.D.
Burkhardt wanted to go.
So he loaded up his survival van, which is a white Oldsmobile minivan with the long, sloped, pointed nose, and drove out there, but didn't really attend many of the meetings because his van is equipped with a video camera and a tripod, and he spent a good part of his time videotaping all of the car tags in the parking lot of all the people attending the Commonwealth Court meeting while it was in session.
Then in January of 96, up in Kansas, at a campaign meeting when Charles Collins was still running as a Republican, he did the same thing.
Went up there and videotaped license numbers, automobiles, and the people in attendance because Collins had asked the Kansas militia to serve as his security force for that meeting.
In the Park City meeting of the K-County Patriots, He did the same thing, videotaped everybody there, videotaped their cars, license tags, the whole work.
He's been collecting a lot of information on a lot of people for a long time.
Now this all came to a head because of that independent common law court guy, Gideon Cowan.
He had implemented that lien program that the common law courts were doing against the banks.
He'd been arrested, convicted, And he had a sentencing trial in December of 95.
J.D.
went to the sentencing trial, and rather than being immediately incarcerated after he was sentenced and found guilty, he was released on an $80,000 bond so he could appeal the sentencing.
His personal friends put up their personal property to secure the bond, and that was okay for a while.
But the Cleveland County Court System down here decided that they needed to re-incarcerate Callan to stop his discovery process.
And he was following an awful lot of paperwork and they didn't know what to do with it.
And then all of a sudden there was a lot of confusion.
The Federal Appeals Board said that they did not deny Callan's appeal.
But the Cleveland County Court System said, oh yeah, it's denied.
And they went after Callan without any legal notice to him of this alleged denial.
When Callen heard about all of this, he disappeared.
And for five months, he was in hiding.
Towards the end of that five-month period, a federal fugitive warrant was issued for his apprehension.
And he was ultimately apprehended early in May of this year.
And all this time, Callen had been a very good friend with J.D.
Burkhart and had trusted him with his life.
Toward the end of this fugitive period, Callen was in pretty bad health.
He'd lost about 45 months and he was really tired of being on the lam.
And J.D.
had apparently kept tabs on Callen that entire time and ultimately arranged safe house accommodations for him while he was on the lam in Oklahoma City at the Grand Continental Motel.
Burkhart allegedly paid for this hotel on his own personal credit card.
And then the police showed up, busted down the door, apprehended Callan, arrested him, and now he's incarcerated in Lexington at the Joseph Park Correctional Facility.
The interesting thing about all of that is that the final apprehension arrest report shows that J.E.
led the police to Callan's location and had put him up specifically in that location to be apprehended.
Now there are two schools taught about this.
One was But Burkhardt is a private investigator.
He is licensed.
He had to do his duty and he had to turn in the fugitive.
This is true.
But we question why he delayed five months doing it when he was keeping tabs on him by way of his family members the entire time.
And it's generally believed here that he waited until there was a bounty associated with the federal fugitive warrant so that he could collect the money.
So since November of 94, Burkhardt has been collecting information on state militias and common law court members to turn over to the feds.
And since he's been involved, there are three militia members that I know personally, who've been interviewed by the FBI about their militia affiliations.
And they would, under no other circumstances, even be, the FBI wouldn't even be interested in them, except that Burkhardt knew who they were.
Now Burkhardt has three close associates.
And what these guys know, Burkhardt always finds out.
Even if he's not present, they report to him.
One is Ron Cross.
A lot of people have probably heard him call in a lot of the Patriot Radio shows.
He's always doing a lot of flag waving, talking about being a militia member and all this kind of stuff.
He was recently arrested because the store where he worked, an employee in the store where he worked, reported that there were shoplifters in the store, and she believed that the shoplifters were armed with a gun.
Ron Cross, instead of just calling the police or saying, hey, guys, stop, or whatever, went to his car, got his gun out of his car, went back into the store, held the suspects until the police arrived, and then he was arrested.
He's very indiscreet.
A lot of loud, patriotic talk.
You'll hear him all the time on the radio, and I can only assume that he is either extremely dangerous himself, or just extremely stupid.
Another close associate is a man named Bobby Kenner.
He would like to have a militia group, but he's just calling it a gun club.
I don't believe that he's dangerous to anyone, but he has bad associations with people he cannot trust.
And then there's a man known only as Moe who showed up in November of 95 out of nowhere, a Middle Eastern appearance with a reputation as a former gun runner, and he began coming to militia meetings and nobody really knows very much about him at all.
Because of the combination of all of these events and the background of Burkhardt and the actions that he's taken toward militia members and the little common law court guys running around out there, It just doesn't seem to be in our best interest to hang with the guy.
And... Ruin.
Yeah.
Well, when it became known on shortwave at the end of last week that a large militia meeting was going to be held in Oklahoma City and J.J.
Johnson was going to be the main speaker, that information came from Ron Cross.
So you know Ron Cross and his J.D.
Burkhart affiliation, what they were going to be up to if they could pull this meeting off.
The meeting has not occurred to this time.
It could still happen, I don't know.
But J.J.
is in Oklahoma City.
Yes, he is.
Yes, he's been here a couple of days now.
And before we leave the Burkhart story, I need to say something to my common law court associates here.
I've been receiving telephone calls from common law court members.
Asking when do I want to start a militia for them here?
I do not want to start a militia for you.
If you want a militia, you start one.
And the reason that I cannot do this, you guys are wonderful people, and I don't care how legal you think your stuff is, my job description, my oath of service is to enforce the laws of the Union, repel invasion, suppress insurrection, to provide for the free flow of information to the whole suppress insurrection, to provide for the free flow of information to the whole of the people
If I go and start a militia for you to enforce your common law laws, to serve your common law papers, I will be in violation of the laws of the Union.
It's my personal belief that I have to operate within the laws as they exist right now.
So I admire your guts and your courage, but it's not what I can do, and you have to choose your own battles, and that one is not mine.
So, if you need security forces, you get them.
And that's my final word on that subject.
Well, I think that's good.
And I'd like to add a little bit to that, too.
The militia can't be mixed up with other things.
The militia has a purpose.
And the purpose of the militia is, as Michelle said, Her oath goes a little bit further because she is attached to an intelligence unit.
But the purpose of the Militia, as she said, is to execute the laws of the Union, repel invasion, and suppress insurrection.
The Militia is subject to the call of the Governor if the Governor is acting in his proper and constitutional capacity, both according to the Constitution of this State and the Constitution for the United States of America.
If he is not operating within that capacity, the militia is not under any obligation to answer the call of the governor, but is under an obligation to enforce or execute the laws, or the supreme law of the state, which is the Constitution, and force the governor back into compliance, if that were ever to occur.
The militia is not to promote a religion, or to hold religious services.
are to convene courts of law or anything else.
The militia must be completely and totally separate.
And all you people who are convening militia meetings that turn into church meetings that then turn into common law courts are in violation of every kind of principle that a military organization like the militia should operate under and you're setting yourself up for a big fall.
Well, amen.
But my primary concern was for JJ.
Yeah.
Because he was coming in here on other unrelated business.
And, you know, J.D. Burkhardt and Ron Cross are both very likable fellows.
They're just as easy and personable to get along with, nice as the day is long, but dangerous.
Well, that's one of the problems with a lot of these patriot organizations and militia groups.
Is that they're extremely susceptible to the wiles of a con man.
What makes a conman great, or I should say what makes a great conman, is the fact that everybody likes them.
Everybody loves them.
Nobody would ever believe that they would steal from you or do anything wrong or be spying on you or turning you in or anything else.
And it seems like the only The only real qualification for a lot of these patriot organizations and militia groups is that if they like somebody, it's okay.
They bring them in.
They bring them right into very sensitive operations, like they did up there in Dakota.
They put the guy in charge of the communications for the whole country, and that was the Tri-States Militia and John Parsons.
And they took a big fall.
Tri-States has no place in our network anymore and never will have.
And neither will anybody else who does that kind of stuff.
Nobody is doing background checks except the 2nd Continental Army of the Republic that I'm aware of.
And this good old boy, you know, I like the guy thing, is getting a lot of people in trouble.
Big trouble.
Yes, and the affiliation of Greitz with Burckhardt troubles me greatly.
Well, it's another ex-Special Forces Mormon, the Greitz connection, that it's bound to lead right to Project Trojan Horse.
Right.
We know that Greitz is a part of Project Trojan Horse.
Well, Burkhardt and his, I don't know if he has operatives, but his planning and what he has done has been very, very detrimental to the militias of this state.
And if these common law court guys are hanging with him and his associates, they're going to go down.
I guarantee they will go down.
And not necessarily because they're doing anything wrong.
No.
But simply because they put themselves in a position to be compromised and to be framed and to be taken out of context and all different kinds of things.
We know that these provocateurs and informants and federal agents are the biggest, biggest pack of liars that have ever existed upon the face of this earth.
And they have been caught so many times and they've been proven to be liars so many times that it's just unbelievable that you can find any court in this land or any jury that will even believe anything that they say.
Right.
Well, my initial suspicion of Mr. Burkhardt originated last November when I had the opportunity to meet him and get to know him and spend some time talking to him and so forth.
And yes, he's very likable.
And at that time we had just really started getting in deep with our investigation into the background and activities of John Cash, who definitely damaged control operatives in the independent Oklahoma City bombing investigations.
Comes in and plugs leaks for the feds and starts rumors for the feds and manipulates things for the feds so that everything else becomes believable except what the truth of the matter really is.
And, uh, thinking that, okay, well, here's Burkhardt.
He's a private investigator.
He volunteered to do a little background check bombing.
So I checked with him a couple of days later to see if he'd turned up anything and I'd given him the information that we had about Cash's background and where he was from and what his affiliations were and his associations and what we knew at the time.
And he covered for Cash?
He covered for Cash.
Well, the first thing he did, of course, was call Charles T. He's one of the biggest supporters and backers of, you know, he thinks that John Cash walks on water.
And I'm sorry that he feels that way.
I really do because he's been I would hope he's just being led down the primrose path.
I don't want to think that he's doing this deliberately, but you never can tell.
Well, nobody wants to, but recent things that have happened between him and Governor... Yeah, Keating.
Keating has sort of indicated that he may be a player for the Peds, too.
Well, I can't make any accusations because I just don't know, but I do know Yeah.
Now, in this Oklahoma City bombing investigation, he was actually butting heads with Governor Keating.
to give Burkhardt that would lead us in the same direction we were going at that time.
Now, in this Oklahoma City bombing investigation, he was actually butting heads with Governor Keating.
And Governor Keating made some disparaging remarks about Keyes publicly.
Oh, yes.
And then when it came to a fundraising dinner for Keyes' re-election, Governor Keating shows up and endorses him.
Yes.
Now that is extremely out of the ordinary, I would say.
Well, it certainly casts an interesting light on the situation, doesn't it?
Yes.
We know that Cash was a member of the Council on Foreign Relations, and from all Of the indications that we have, he appears to be working directly for the Federal Bureau of Investigation.
We don't know that for sure, but... No, but every bit of evidence indicates he is being protected by them.
Yes.
And working in concert with them.
And is, in fact, protecting them.
Yes.
And acting as damage control.
Yes.
Absolutely.
That's a whole other story that would take another show to get into all the details of that and what makes us think that but there are definitely facts and testimony to back that whole situation up and Cash is also a very dangerous man who has no qualms about threatening somebody's life if you tread too closely on his toes.
So we just put these things under our hat and remember him but boy Burkhart he couldn't say enough good stuff about Cash.
Just thought he was a wonderful guy.
And that is what first made me think that there was something wrong with Burkhart.
And then I just sat back in the shadows, ended my association with him, didn't talk to him anymore on the telephone, and just watched.
Like a black widow spider.
Hey, now.
I suppose so.
The way things developed is there was a lot of surveillance going on of good patriot people and common law court people and militia people and folks who just love their country and aren't really affiliated with anything.
Yeah.
And this is not good.
Not good at all.
And the whole idea of Burkhart being associated with Ron Cross and Ron Cross trying to set up some big old militia meeting for J.J.
to speak at is not good because J.J.' 's been targeted.
And I just don't want anything to happen to him.
On my watch.
And so that's why we had to come forward with this today, because he's here in this state.
And, uh, you know.
Well, we've been trying to help him along.
Yeah.
If he pays attention, he'll be alright.
Yes.
Yes.
Don't go away, folks.
We'll be right back after this short pause.
You're listening to the Hour of the Time.
I'm William Cooper.
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Well, welcome back, Michelle. Michelle.
Thank you.
And what are we going to go into now?
Well, I don't know.
What would you like to go in?
Well, I understand that we have some information that we were asked not to talk about because it wasn't supposed to be public knowledge, and in the last broadcast before this broadcast they've already talked about it, so in my estimation that releases us for any vow of silence.
Well, it has now become pretty much worldwide public knowledge.
Yes, it has.
So let's talk about it.
Okay.
I guess we will.
We're going to talk about the encounter that General Parton had with the Federal Bureau of Investigation earlier this month.
Okay.
On Friday, the 14th of June, representatives from the FBI contacted General Parton at his home in Virginia.
To make an appointment to visit with him the following Monday, June the 17th.
They didn't say what they wanted to talk to him about, really, or who was coming.
But on Monday the 17th, the people who showed up to interview General Partin were Danny Diefenbaugh, who is the inspector in charge of the Oklahoma City Bomb Task Force.
He works for Louis Freeh.
Beth Wilkinson, who's one of the PRIMO prosecutor team members.
And a man named Eden Goldman, who is her deputy, and they're all Department of Justice employees working for Jan Arena.
General Parton, when he realized he was going to be interviewed by the Feds, contacted Pat Bradley and asked what his advice was on dealing with this, and he was advised to get his attorney present and to set a tape recorder in the middle of the table so that all could see that the meeting was being taped and to record everything that everybody said.
and this was done.
The feds were investigating Parton, interviewing Parton, because he's undoubtedly going to be called as a witness for the defense.
They asked him several questions, made several statements, one of which was, oh, your analysis is all wrong because you put the crater in the wrong place on your report.
And we had already determined that quite a while ago.
Yes, we did, and that's covered in the book.
In Oklahoma City, Day One.
Yes.
That, you know, there was a rumor floating at one time that an artist's rendition of the crater had deliberately moved it to try to change the evidence and all this sort of thing, but closer inspection of everything, including some fabulous photos that will be reprinted in the book, indicate that
The drawings that the artists have made are accurate and that Parton was off in his estimate of the crater location by about eight feet.
But the assertion of the Feds that because he was off his conclusions were wrong is also wrong because the real position of the crater even makes General Parton's conclusions much stronger.
Yes, it does.
The feds take the position that because the crater was actually closer to the large cut out, scooped out portion of the building down on the east end, that, oh well, that's proof positive again that the truck bomb took that crater out.
But the more eastward you move the alleged truck bomb, the farther away it gets from column A9 way down on the west end, and those columns were all taken out.
Yes, and it would have been an impossibility.
Absolutely impossible.
Yeah.
So they raked him over the coast about that.
Then they said, well, you're not qualified to do an analysis on the Oklahoma City bombing.
You've never been to explosive school.
And so Parton reviewed his extensive and very impressive resume for them and basically told them, look, you know, the guys who are running explosive school studied with me.
So he doesn't need to go to Explosive School.
Both schools probably exist because of work that he did.
That is truly humorous that they would make such a statement.
Oh, they're so shallow and so superficial and so transparent it just kind of makes you tired.
And such unbelievable liars.
And then they go home and look themselves in the mirror and I guess they don't have any conscience or ethics or morals at all, do they?
I haven't come across any lately.
Well, they took him to task saying that his analysis was all wrong because the only way to bring down the columns in the building was if someone drilled holes in the columns and planted contact.
And of course, he gave four other ways that the columns could have come down other than the truck bomb without drilling into the columns.
But the fact remains, we have witnesses who know that they did drill.
Not only that, but we have photographs that shows what appears to be the marks of the drill bits in some of the columns.
We can't really tell, but it appears that that's what they are.
Well, the only other thing that that could be would be where Rebar was, but the distance between the marks is not right.
No, not only is it not right, but Rebar is not that big.
Right, right.
You know, we can say for certain that that's what that is, but it certainly is something that shouldn't be there, that obviously is.
Yes, and we have witnesses that, well... Well, we'll save that.
We'll save that.
When people get this book, they're going to be absolutely stunned.
Just stunned.
And what else can we say about the pardon meeting?
Well, he argued with Diefenbach for a long time about the Federal Bureau of Investigation complicity in the World Trade Center bombing, and showed them all the evidence he'd collected.
Stuff that's public knowledge.
The New York Times reports and the transcripts of that.
Well, they did.
These are actual tapes that were introduced into court in our FBI tapes.
that taught them how to drive the bomb truck.
I mean, the whole works.
And Diefenbaugh argued back, but no, they didn't.
And that was a big waste of everybody's time.
Well, they did.
These are actual tapes that were introduced into court in our FBI tapes.
They are also, on those tapes, the people who were involved with the FBI in making the bomb for the World Trade Center bombing actually wanted to put inert ingredients in that bomb so that it would not explode and no one would be hurt.
and the FBI insisted that they use real explosives.
Right.
Right.
Yeah, I mean, the FBI agents who made those tapes themselves admitted the complicity.
Yes.
And, you know, I don't know how deep in Boston to say that they didn't, but they spent a long time arguing about that.
CZ is a bare-faced liar!
They're all liars!
They're scum!
They are lying scum.
They don't belong in this country.
I don't even see how their mother could stand to look at them.
Well, I think the purpose of the interview with Parton was to feel him out, see what his answers were going to be, so they could try to take him apart on the witness stand.
Good luck.
Yeah, good luck.
If the jurors are paying any attention, all the steps will fail miserably, as they have anyway.
And then the other bit of news that's been in the papers I've laid about that court case is that Whitehurst, who's claiming misconduct on the part of the FBI labs, is going to testify for the defense that the feds screwed up the investigation into the bombing.
They lied about it on the stand four or five times.
They lied about it in the preliminaries.
They lied about it before this grand jury.
Yeah, you're getting a little too close to that phone now, Michelle, and you're starting to sound a little fuzzy.
Backing off.
Okay, good.
absolutely false and who is going to bring that out.
Yeah, you're getting a little too close to that phone now, Michelle, and you're starting to sound a little fuzzy.
Backing off.
Okay, good.
Recently, well, anything else new to talk about?
A better way about that report we talked about until I see it.
Okay.
We'll just hold that in abeyance and when we get it, it'll be dynamite.
Okay.
Recently we took a trip.
Where'd we go?
Santa Fe!
And what'd we do?
We met with the Time Setter.
And what happened?
Oh, wow.
We worked our butts off.
We worked hard.
I couldn't believe that four people sitting around a table could work so hard and so long and get so exhausted.
Just putting together a book and making sure everybody understood what it was and we designed the cover while we were there.
Yeah, went through all the photographs and pieces of actual evidence that needed to be scanned in so we could put in actual documents and not just type up the contents of them so people could see the signatures and the letterheads and know that these were genuine.
And went over all the captions to make sure that they were accurate and said what needed to be said to indicate what point we were trying to make by the photos.
And yeah, I designed the cover.
That was a long process, but kind of exhilarating.
Yes, and a little bit frustrating for a while.
Yes, it was.
You know, when everybody's trying to, you've got four different people working on one image for this cover.
And everybody's got their own little idea of what it should look like, but they're all kind of in general agreement and you're trying to make it work so that everybody likes it.
And I got to tell you folks, that's an experience.
That's a real experience and moving things around and taking this out and changing that color.
Tweaking the line.
Tweaking the line.
What did you think of it?
Oh, it's killer.
It's absolutely killer.
When I went to Kinko's, I had that on the disc, you know, and I took it to Kinko's to get a color laser copy from their printers there, and the minute it came up on the screen, the gal who was operating the machine just went, wow!
She just couldn't believe it, and she didn't know why it affected her the way it did.
Well, Young would say that it's definitely an archetype.
Yes, it is.
And it is so strong and so powerful that what did we decide?
To put that and that alone on the actual cover.
In other words, no title, no words, no buy, no nothing.
Just the image is going to be on the cover of the book.
And people's arms will jump away from their sides to yank it off the shelf and they won't even know it happened until it's in front of their face.
Yeah, and the smaller version of the cover image is also on the spine of the book where we do put the title and my name and heart and stress and so forth.
But on the cover, if it's on the bookstore shelf flat like that, it's just going to fly into people's shopping bags.
Oh yeah, it's amazing.
They're going to have to look at it.
They have to look at it.
You see that, and you have to look at it.
You just have to.
And then when you know what the book's about, they have to buy it.
So.
Yes.
Very, very, very powerful.
Yes, I think you could open that book up to any page.
I don't care.
Any page at random, and there will be something on that page that will make your jaw drop to your chest.
Wow.
Wow.
I didn't know that.
Well, if people just pay attention and watch the story develop, they're going to see something that occurred here that they have not heard reported on television or read about in the newspapers.
It is not at all the event that people think it is, and it didn't happen the way they think it did.
And, you know, you're going to look back at your old newspapers or your old videotapes of what was being reported back then and wonder if that Yeah.
newscaster was on another planet or something because what really occurred here doesn't really resemble what's being propounded as the official story in any way.
Yeah.
It's almost as if somebody were reporting something halfway around the world that took place somewhere else because it certainly didn't take place in Oklahoma City.
Right, and then translating the report from a foreign language.
Yeah, and then denying what they said.
First you report it, then you deny what you reported.
An awful lot of that.
An awful lot of that.
But it's going to be interesting this week.
There's a lot of very important evidence suppression hearings coming up.
I guess they start tomorrow.
And it'll be interesting to see how the media covers it and what the Denver Post prints about it.
We'll just have to wait and see.
But so far, Nichols has had a lot more success than McVeigh, which to me is not at all surprising, knowing what we know about the way his case is being handled.
Yes.
But Nichols was not mirandized when he was arrested.
His wife, Marce, was terrorized by the feds and grilled and psychologically abused.
And they searched without legitimate search warrants.
Feds broke a lot of rules when they were dealing with Terry Nichols.
I understand they did the same thing to McVeigh's sister.
Oh, yes.
They destroyed her.
Yeah, when they questioned her, she's very, very young, and, you know, really young, early 20s.
And she thought she could handle it, and she couldn't.
And they got her in there and questioned her and convinced her that if she didn't testify against her brother, that they would name her as an accessory because he'd written letters to her and she knew about his, quote-unquote, anti-government sentiments.
And they made up these great big posters with pictures of the dismembered bodies of the babies and stuff that people have never, ever, ever seen published in any publication about the bombing because they're just too gruesome.
And then they made up, you know, wanted posters with her name on it and posters about her being put to death in the electric chair and decorated the interrogation room with these things all around her while they drilled her.
These guys...
I better not say it.
If I say what I'm really thinking, I might get kicked right out of radio.
Well, don't say it.
No, I'm not.
Y'all know.
I was a sailor at one time for many years, folks, so I can say some things pretty well that most people probably never heard in their whole life.
Well, in my opinion, they've ruined her life forever and ever because Jennifer is devoted to her brother.
They're really, really close.
And she has been forced into a situation where she's going to have to testify against him.
Now, Jones doesn't really think that her testimony is going to hurt McVeigh any.
I don't think so either unless they've convinced her that she has to lie.
I don't know what they've convinced her of.
I don't know what she's actually going to testify to.
Nobody does.
She weeps when she talks about the position that she got herself into because she didn't have to talk to those guys in the first place.
She wasn't under any kind of a criminal investigation.
Nobody ever has to talk to them.
That's what people don't understand.
They get intimidated into talking.
And 99% of all people who ever go to jail go there because they opened their mouth.
Whether they were guilty or not, they opened their mouth when they should have kept it shut.
Yeah, well the feds mistreated Mary Shay too, who is also extremely young, younger than Jennifer, and a Filipino, and doesn't really, she's really an innocent, does not know what she's dealing with here, and those details are a whole other story.
The real thing of interest happening in Oklahoma, as far as this is concerned right now, have been several secret meetings of the federal grand jury.
After the big Heidelberg hoopsie-doo, last October, November, whenever that was, the lifespan of that particular grand jury was extended an additional six months.
So that they could look at more evidence, or maybe they could call some more witnesses, or maybe they'd look at the John Doe II and blah, blah, blah.
They've been holding some secret meetings, not calling any witnesses that we know about so far, and no one is saying what they're talking about or what they're doing.
But of course it's being reported that they're meeting in secret.
Yeah.
Well, according to our information on this end, we believe that they know exactly who John Doe No.
2 is, and that they probably... Yeah, and I'll tell you what, it's not that white supremacist student from Pennsylvania that they say was living in Elohim City.
No, it's not.
All of this white supremacist stuff is coming directly out of the FBI and John Cash is the primary pusher of that rumor.
Well, not just John Cash.
I mean here in this area.
Yeah, but remember that dinner you had.
I mean that whole scenario was laid out by Lawrence Myers, Larry Myers of Media Bypass Magazine, one night at a dinner which you taped.
Well, but you see, Larry Myers came to that dinner in the place of John Cash.
Because we'd all met the night before and gone over, put all the pieces of John Cash together.
Everybody had a different piece.
Put them all together, figured out what the guy was.
Cash knew he was going to be persona non grata if he showed up, and he wasn't invited anyway.
So he sends his, you know, in the place of, his substitute snitch, Larry Myers, to the dinner, who performed the most unbelievable performance for three and a half hours nonstop.
Yeah, what he did was lay out on the table exactly where the government wants this to go.
Yes, he did.
He went into the whole deal about across the, no, the Covenant, the Sword, the Arm of the Lord in Arkansas, Jim Ellison is under the Federal Witness Protection Program and living in Elohim City, Richard Wayne Snell, the Order, and of course all of that stuff.
Oh, April the 19th.
1985.
10 years before.
Actually, Ellison wasn't arrested in that raid until the 22nd.
Right.
But the feds began to gather and prepare their staging area on the 19th.
Right.
Do you know the significance of April the 19th?
Isn't it a sacrificial feast to Baal or something like that?
To bless the fertility of whatever's coming ahead?
The project?
April the 19th is the first day of the preparation for the sacrifice to the rites of the Spring Fertility and it has a long history with many gods and Luciferian connections and Ishtar and the whole works.
It has a place in the ancient Jewish ceremonies.
It is traditionally the day of preparation for and sacrifice of either the human or the animal to ensure the fertility and the success of the coming harvest, season, planting.
Well, they had to sacrifice, didn't they?
They certainly did.
They certainly did.
Well, it's my personal belief that this thing was planned about 8 years ago.
And we'll talk about that in Volume 2.
Yes, we will.
Which has already been started and is well underway, ladies and gentlemen.
Volume 2 will probably be just as long and just as detailed and even more revealing than Oklahoma City Day 1.
Well, it would have to be because when you're dealing with Oklahoma City Day 1, you're dealing primarily with April the 19th.
Stuff that everybody is generally familiar with, they just don't know the details of the real story.
Yes.
And when you start getting into the background and how this came about and who was really involved and why it happened, they'll be taking themselves up off the floor.
It's pretty shocking.
Mm-hmm.
It's devastating.
Okay, well I guess that about wraps it up.
Any last words you want to give to our listening audience before we go into the sign-off?
Thank you for being our guest tonight, Michelle, and thank you for all the wonderful work that you do on behalf of everybody.
Well, ladies and gentlemen, that wraps it up for tonight.
Again, keep doing it with that, you guys.
Keep up the good work.
Wonderful.
Thank you for being our guest tonight, Michelle, and thank you for all the wonderful work that you do on behalf of everybody.
Well, ladies and gentlemen, that wraps it up for tonight.
In the beginning of this broadcast, you heard me give a little dissertation, and you're going to see that again.
You're going to see it.
You're not going to hear it, probably.
But the point of that is, history is ignored by a great segment of the population.
An awful lot of the work that I do, in taking all the information that comes from all of our different stations around this country and around the world, And assembling the puzzles that are the truth, the deception, and the big box that has all the pieces that won't fit in either one.
A big portion of my job is understanding and knowing history so that I can spot a pattern that has occurred before.
And it's one of the reasons I am so consistently right.
Because the people who control the world, generally, generally, ladies and gentlemen, Use the same scams over and over again since the very beginning of humankind.
Good night, and God bless you all.
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