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Nov. 1, 1995 - Bill Cooper
58:45
Michelle Moore – OKC
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*Piano music* Yes, and I hope you will be the best of you.
See you next time.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Ladies and gentlemen, you can start watching your mailbox.
Veritas is gone.
And I mean gone on the way to you.
And it's sort of time-sensitive, and you'll know what I mean when you get it.
It's another outstanding issue.
And again, it's the only issue that has done the research that really cuts right straight to the heart of the problem.
The heart of the problem that no one else ever seems to be able to arrive at.
We always do.
We take down every lead.
We check every law.
We are relentless in our search for the truth.
Veritas.
Now, if you haven't subscribed yet, it's too late to get the old price, but you can still subscribe.
And the price now is $35 for 24 issues.
Also, the name of the company has changed to Image I-M-A-G-E 1216.
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So make checker money order payable to Image 1216 for $35 for 24 issues of Veritas and send them to Veritas at PO Box 3390, St. John's, Arizona 85936. St. John's, Arizona 85936.
Once again, the name of the publisher of Veritas has changed.
It is no longer Veritas Publications.
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Now, when you send a check or money order, do not write Veritas on the check or money order.
Must be made out to Image 1216.
That is the publisher.
And send it, of course, to Veritas at Polk Office Box 3390, St.
John's, Arizona 85936.
Now, there are just a very few copies of the last issue left.
I think there were 25 copies left in the center when I left there last night.
If you want one of those copies, send $5.00.
It's now a back issue.
It's $5.00, and if we have any left, we'll send it right out to you.
If you will accept another back issue in lieu of it, please let us know that, or else we're going to send your $5.00 back if we have already run out of issue number six.
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Distributors.
We're looking for distributors.
It's a good way for you to make money.
And when you get your copy of Veritas, look at the distributor prices and the profits that you can make from selling those papers and you'll see that it's the best deal going.
And if you're an enterprising soul and you could get a network of kids who want to start their own business delivering papers, you could resurrect an old American institution.
You can help us get the paper out.
You can make money.
And some kids can make some money.
I bet a lot of you haven't even thought of that, have you?
Make sure you check your local laws because I'm not even sure if it's legal for kids to do anything anymore.
Also, I got some calls tonight that Viking International was crying on the radio about what I said last night.
Poor little fellows.
Didn't mean to hurt their little feelings, but they didn't seem to mind that they hurt an awful lot of people across this country.
In fact, they could have started a war.
People were loading their weapons.
They were gearing up.
Some people ran out of their homes in a panic and spent every dime they had on food and water.
They can talk all they want to about having made a disclaimer, but that's a crock of crap on shortwave.
You're lucky if you hear every third sentence in some areas of the country.
And in shortwave, a lot of people are tuning through the bands and wouldn't have heard it no matter what.
What they did was inexcusable.
It was despicable.
It was wrong, and they can cry all they want to.
I will not change my opinion about that.
And I will not let them off the hook.
And folks, they did not do it to prepare you for anything.
They did it to sell an awful lot of gold and silver coins to line their own nest with.
And the quicker all you dummies out there figure that out, the better off you're going to be.
And if you don't like to hear this, frankly, my dear Scarlett, I don't give a damn.
You can turn off your radio and never listen to me again for the rest of your life.
It won't bother me a bit.
I know the intelligent people out there will be there.
The loss of a few dummies isn't going to hurt us one way or another.
Remember, folks, I'm not in this for the ratings.
I'm not a professional radio person, and I'm not selling you anything on this broadcast.
In fact, sometimes I do shows without even plugging my own sponsors.
I'm here to try to save this country, and only smart, intelligent people are going to be able to help me do that.
The rest of you, you're the flotsam and jetsam on the sea of life.
You'll be tossed about by the waves and the storm.
Some of you will be stranded high on the beach and you'll dry out and wither in the sun.
Some of you will drift around in the eddies and the currents, not having any power or direction over where you end up.
It's the way it's always been throughout history.
It's the way it is now.
It's probably the way it always will be.
And as usual, you will be at the mercy of the three to five percent who actually direct the course of the future.
Don't go away, folks.
I'll be back in just a few moments with Michelle Moore, the Oklahoma Station Chief.
for the intelligence service of the second continental army of the republic Oh, where have you been, my darling young one?
I've stumbled on side of twelve misty mountains.
I've walked my crowd on six thicket highways.
I've stepped in the middle of seven sad forests.
I've been out in front of a dozen dead oceans.
I've been ten thousand miles in the mouth of a graveyard.
And it's hard.
It's hard.
It's always gonna fall.
What did you hear in my blue eyes and tongue?
Oh, what did you feel in my brown and yellow?
I'm the sound of a thunder that roared out in the morning.
I'm the roar of a wave that sings around the whole world.
I'm the one hundred tremors you can't replace.
I'm the ten thousand whispers nobody hears.
I'm the one person sobbing, many people laughing.
I'm the song of a flame that died in the shadows.
Down, down, down, down.
It's hard.
Well, welcome, Michelle, to the Hour of the Times.
Good evening, Bill.
Good evening to you.
I played that just for you.
It sounds like a lot of our telephone calls.
It does, indeed.
Yeah, it does.
Well, we've got, looking through the notes, if we have time, there's probably four things we should talk about to bring people up to snuff on what's been happening here.
Okay.
Why don't you just lead right into it and take us whither you will.
Okay.
I want to talk about Hoppy Heidelberg first because that's probably making the biggest splash in the media right now.
And there's some information about this going through the national news rotations.
Occasionally you can hear a little bit of it on CNN, but folks that don't live here have no idea.
They just don't have a clue what's really going on with Hoppy Heidelberg.
Now, for the ones who not only don't live there and don't have a clue, but for the ones who are just out in outer space, who is Hoppy Heidelberg?
Okay, Hoppy Heidelberg is a horse breeder who lives in Blanchard, Oklahoma, and he is also a member of the federal grand jury that was interviewing, well, they were listening to the Okay.
Now he's the only one who really tried to make the grand jury work in the manner that it should.
The grand jury is supposed to be an autonomous body away from the authority of the prosecutors or the district attorney or the judges or anything else and once they are formed They literally have the power of subpoena and to question and to bring indictments and all kinds of things, but that's not the way it's working, is it?
No, not at all.
That's not how it has worked out at all.
And Heidelberg has been the only one who has really come forward and made a big stink.
And his biggest complaint has been that the people in charge of the grand jury, I guess the prosecuting attorneys, Uh-huh.
...would not allow any grand jury members to question the witnesses directly.
So there was just sort of an audience watching this parade of people go by, and the witnesses were only being asked those questions that the prosecutors wanted to have asked.
And in addition, he was upset that there were well over a dozen witnesses that he wanted to have brought before the grand jury, and supposedly other grand jury members wanted to see these Additional witnesses as well.
And the federal prosecutors would not allow them to appear.
These witnesses, of course, were the people who had eye-to-eye contact with the John Doe II.
Not one single John Doe II witness was allowed to come before the grand jury.
And as far as Heidelberg is concerned, that is the one big remaining question is, who is the dude and where is he?
And he thinks that the feds know a lot more than they're saying about that subject.
And that's part of the reason why he's making his big public complaint.
And on October the 5th he wrote a letter to the Honorable David R. Russell, federal judge, expressing his opinion about this and then of course he was fired.
Now I have a copy of that letter and if we have time I'd like to read it.
I don't think any but two or three paragraphs of this have ever been quoted in the media.
Go ahead.
This is the letter from Hoppy Heidelberg to the Honorable David R. Russell and it is dated October 5, 1995.
Dear Judge Russell, pursuant to instructions from Lead Prosecutor Joseph Hartzler, I write to you this letter to express my concerns about the Oklahoma City bombing investigation.
January is coming upon us fast and I am concerned that there will then be no one in authority The families of the victims deserve to know who all was involved in the bombing, and there appears to be an attempt to protect the identity of 30 suspects, namely John Doe Number 2, evidenced by the following.
1.
The hoax perpetrated by authorities that John Doe 2 was a Fort Raleigh private who rented a truck on a different day.
The Fort Raleigh private was not with Tim McVeigh, nor does he remotely resemble the police sketch of John Doe Number 2.
Two, the lack of witnesses relating to John Doe Number Two, namely, A, the manager of the Great Western Inn on I-70 in Junction City, Kansas, where John Doe Two registered using a foreign name and reportedly stayed in room number 107.
This manager apparently reported that John Doe Number Two spoke in broken English and was driving the mystery second rider truck.
Strangely, this manager has reportedly disappeared and cannot be found.
That's Mike Morose, by the way, that he's talking about.
that reportedly gave the FBI artist the description of Ken McVeigh and John Doe #2.
The McVeigh sketch is almost perfect, and there is no reason to doubt that the John Doe #2 sketch is less so.
And C, the Oklahoma City Tire Shop employee who saw John Doe #2 in the rider truck with McVeigh shortly before the explosion.
That's Mike Moroz, by the way, that he's talking about. - Okay. - Number three, the lack of the use of the John Doe #2 If so, I suggest the following list of witnesses that need to be subpoenaed for testimony.
in locations other than those previously acknowledged.
1.
Perhaps a new grand jury should be in panels in 1996 dedicated to this investigation.
If so, I suggest the following list of witnesses that need to be subpoenaed for testimony.
One, the manager at the time of the Oklahoma City bombing of the Great Western Inn on I-70 in Johnson City, Kansas, if he is still alive and can be found.
2.
The Fort Riley Private, identified by Athenian authorities as John Doe No.
2.
Of course, that's Todd Bunting.
3.
Architects, structural engineers, and explosive experts selected by the grand jury.
4.
Area seismologists and geophysicists, including Dr. Ray Brown.
5.
All video surveillance tapes from cameras near the Murrah Building, including the one made by a Southwestern Bell camera.
Which reportedly shows John Doe 2 getting out of the Ryder truck before McVeigh drove it to the Murrah building.
8.
Ralph McPeak Jr.
7.
Zippy Beamer 8.
Tom Kessinger 9.
Hilda Sespa 10.
Mike Moroz 11.
James Rosencrantz Time may be of the essence before witnesses disappear or lose their memories or their materials.
The truth is just as important to you as it is to me.
I trust, therefore, your response will be eagerly awaited.
Very truly yours, Hoppy Heidelberg.
To which, on October 24th, 1995, King George Russell replied, Dear Mr. Heidelberg, Effective immediately, you are dismissed from the Grand Jury.
Your obligation of secrecy continues.
Any disclosure of matters that occurred before the Grand Jury constitutes a contempt of court.
Each violation of the Obligation of Secrecy may be punished cumulatively.
Sincerely, David L. Russell, United States District Judge.
For now, I'll be hard at work pursuing Judge Russell.
Because he can't be fired from the Grand Jury.
That's right.
The Grand Jury is an autonomous body.
The judge has no authority to fire someone on the Grand Jury The interesting thing about this is that Hoppy Heidelberg has not at any time revealed anything about the testimony that took place in the closed doors of the Grand Jury Chamber.
and the district's attorney or the prosecutor.
The interesting thing about this is that Happy Heidelberg has not at any time revealed anything about the testimony that took place in the closed doors of the Grand Jury Chamber.
All he has done is gripe about testimony that did not occur.
Well, apparently they claim that he did an interview with some magazine, and the interview was taped, and they now have a complete transcript of that tape, and they say that he did.
I have not seen that transcript, have you?
No, I have not read it.
The transcript is in excess of 200 pages long.
Must have been a long conversation.
Yeah, Heidelberg says that he was contacted by Media Bypass Magazine and just had a conversation on the phone with the representative.
They betrayed their source?
Is that what he's saying?
They taped the conversation without his knowledge or permission.
They took his comments out of context.
They betrayed their source.
And then they printed an article with bits and pieces of it which Heidelberg says over half is wrong.
So, you know, what else is new with the media?
That's correct.
So anyway, Heidelberg is bringing suit against Judge Russell.
He's probably going to sue Media Bypass, but I have not had that confirmed yet.
And now he's being raked over the coals in the newspapers because he holds certain beliefs that they think undermine his credibility.
And therefore we should dismiss his comments about the failure of the grand jury to be allowed to question witnesses and the failure of the grand jury to call witnesses.
That's the old socialist trick of when you can't dispute the facts, You attack the credibility of the person.
You know, I've said it many times on the air here, because I come under all kinds of accusations and everything, and so does anybody else who ever stands up to speak the truth, when they can't deal with the facts.
And they can't deal with the research.
They attack the character of the person.
So I've said on the radio many times, especially in the early days of this broadcast and even as recently as last year, for my listeners to think of me as a murderer, a child molester, someone who robs banks, a miserable drunk rolling in the gutter.
And once you've got that in your mind and it's clear that that's who I am, Then I want you to see if it changes any of the facts, or any of the research, or any of the documentation.
And American people don't ever do that.
And that has always been a complete and utter amazement to me.
They're doing this with Mr. Heidelberg, attempting to make him look like some kind of a despicable character, and the only thing that they have used against him is that he believes That there's a man in Dallas called White who died many years ago who was a part of the assassination team for President Kennedy.
Right.
Roscoe White.
Roscoe White, that's right.
So that's what they're trying to do.
They're spreading this tale that he believes that Roscoe White was part of the assassination team that killed President Kennedy and therefore the public should not listen to Hoppy Heidelberg.
More reasons for doing that than just critiquing him and the grand jury thing.
The defense team attorneys headed by Stephen Jones have happily accepted Hoppe's comments and they want to interview all of the grand jurors privately.
And they believe that because the grand jury system failed in this case, because of the prosecution's interference with it, that Well, it only fails because the people are ignorant.
discounting the possibility that if a new federal grand jury were called, Fay and Nichols would be re-indicted on the charges.
But clearly this particular grand jury that handled this particular situation failed.
Well, it only failed because the people are ignorant.
If the people on that grand jury really knew the true facts about a grand jury and the prosecutor tried to manipulate the grand jury, they could issue an indictment against the prosecutor, they don't even know that they have that power Yes, and during the process of the grand jury investigation... In fact, if you want to know the truth, Hoppy Heidelberg could refuse to be fired from the grand jury.
He could go back into the grand jury chamber, and he could educate those people, and issue an indictment against the judge that tried to fire him.
I'll tell him he said that.
I wish somebody would.
I'll tell him that.
Because he's definitely anxious to take action in this regard.
When the investigation was occurring, he kind of verbally duped it out with the prosecutors.
Because he said, we have a right to call witnesses.
We have a right to question witnesses.
They said, you sit there, set up, and listen.
And then during the course of the questioning, he would just jump in there and ask questions anyway.
And the prosecutors would try to stop on him, so they finally reached a compromise where Hoppy would be allowed to ask a few questions, provided he presented the questions to the prosecutors in advance so they knew what he was going to ask.
Well, they sure wrested the power away from the people, haven't they?
They have.
They have.
And that's something else that's made everybody very upset.
Indeed.
Very upset.
So, you know, there are a lot of reasons why the media, And the feds want to discredit Mr. Heidelberg.
I think he's got some good, solid legal foundations to stand on if he'll just keep on standing.
Not only that, if they refuse to cow him and he gets any inkling of what the real power of the grand jury is and the truth of their autonomy, he could turn the tables on these people.
I think they're afraid of him.
Well, of course they are.
Of course they are, because if what he said is true, then we have obstruction of justice on the part of some of the federal prosecutors.
Yes.
And that was one of the things that State Representative Charles Key was bringing up in his request for a county grand jury to investigate this.
Now, he filed his petition on the 27th with Mr. Wilburn, who is the father of Edie Smith, whose two sons were killed in the explosion.
And today, the judge to whom they presented the petition denied the petition for unspecified deficiencies in that they felt it wasn't specific enough.
What could be more specific?
We won a county grand jury.
I mean, isn't that specific?
Right.
So, it's not dead yet.
Uh, things that can occur to bring this about, but basically the way things stand at this moment on this day is that the feds got their shot at it and they're not going to let anybody else have a shot at it at any other level.
Certainly looks that way, but it doesn't have to remain that way.
No, it doesn't.
Okay, let's go on to the next subject.
Okay.
Let's see.
Let's talk about prior knowledge.
Okay.
Of the bombing.
Okay.
Okay, let me see.
How close are we to the break, Bill?
Well, we've got about four minutes until the break.
That's a long time.
Yeah, it is.
We know that people were going all around the country telling people to watch Oklahoma.
Right.
Right.
Now, I'm going to have to take everybody back in time, okay, to August.
Now, on August the 10th was the day that the indictments against McVay and Nichols were handed down, and all of the different people involved held big press conferences.
You know, Janet Reno did one from Washington, and Hartford and the prosecutors, Patrick Ryan, did one from here, and Stephen Jones and his boys, Michael Tiger, they all did press conferences that day.
And in the course of Stephen Jones' press conference, he released to the public a copy of a letter of immunity that was provided to an informer.
And basically, the U.S. Marshal Service in Denver, Colorado, granted immunity to an unknown informant.
He's not unknown.
We know who he is.
Okay, well...
You know who he is, but don't tell the listening audience.
Yes.
Okay.
Just make it clear.
Okay.
I'll read a little bit of this, okay?
It's not very long.
Okay.
Dear Mr. Blank, this is dated September 14, 1994.
Dear Mr. Blank, this letter is to memorialize the agreement between you and the United States of America by the undersigned Assistant United States Attorney.
The terms of this agreement are as follows.
One, you have contacted the U.S.
Marshal Service on today's date indicating that you have information concerning a conspiracy and or attempt to destroy United States court facilities in blank and possibly other cities.
Parts of this letter have been redacted.
Of course.
Okay?
Two, the United States agrees that any statement and or information that you provide relevant to this conspiracy or conspiracies or attempts will not be used against you in any criminal proceeding.
Further, the United States agrees that no evidence derived from the information or statements provided by you will be used in any way against you.
And so forth and so on.
And they say that if you agree to accept the terms of this agreement, you acknowledge your acceptance by signing below.
And then if he ever blows it, Breitman charges him with everything they wanted.
Right.
That's basically the terms of it.
But we know that they wouldn't.
Because then it would come out in court that they knew that that building was going to be blown up, and exactly what day it was going to be blown up, and most likely by who.
Yes.
Okay.
Then, on April the 1st, 1995, allegedly a letter of warning was sent by this informant to the Denver office of the U.S.
Marshal Service.
And this was a bomb warning letter.
Okay, now, U.S.
Marshal Tina Lewis Rowe in Denver denies that the informant gave them any information about the imminent bombing.
At the same time that she says they know nothing about it, the U.S.
attorney in Denver, Henry Solano, said that Oklahoma City was not notified about the informant's information, which Rose says they didn't have, okay, because they deemed it not credible.
Right.
The reason they deemed it not credible is because the informant had served eight years of a prison term and had received some treatment in a mental hospital, and I wonder what kind of treatment that was.
So then that floats in the media.
Nobody talks about it.
It kind of dies a quiet death until we begin to talk to the people here in Oklahoma City.
and And the information is coming out.
Gosh, the list of people who knew about the bombing, prior to the bombing, is incredible.
It is incredible.
It is incredible.
Dr. Randall Heather, our local terrorism expert, In an interview, at about 1 o'clock in the afternoon of the day of the bombing, said, trying to stay on TV, that he knew the FBI had received a warning that week.
Yeah.
And then the security guard of 5010 Place, when they were evacuating the FBI offices there, said he knew about the bomb threat.
And we've got Nurse Toni Garrett on the scene, who knew about the bomb threat and knew the bomb squad had been there that morning.
Hold on.
We've got to take our break now.
Okay.
Hold that thought.
We'll hold.
And all of you out there, don't go away, because a lot more revealing information to come.
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The End
And welcome back to the Hour of the Time.
Our guest tonight is Michelle Moore.
She's not just the Oklahoma station chief.
I believe she has four states that work under her supervision.
But we're talking about Oklahoma tonight.
Michelle, what did you think about Viking International's little trick last night?
I thought it was irresponsible and opportunistic and slimy scumbag, if you want.
When you think about it in terms of being the malicious 19, what was that, War of the Worlds?
1938 War of the Worlds, yeah.
Right.
Back then, folks were jumping out of buildings and firing at water towers and just losing touch with reality.
And the same thing was happening here with a lot of people who forgot that they're supposed to document things before they take extreme action.
And people went into a panic.
And you were right when you were talking about it earlier that it did hurt a lot of people and freaked a lot of people out.
And life is scary enough as it is.
We don't need to make it worse.
I just think that it was extremely irresponsible.
And if anything bad happens to anybody, they really ought to sue.
I think they should also.
I know that that's against the law to do that.
I don't know if anything will happen because of it.
Anyway, let's go on with where you left off.
Okay, well we were talking about people and agencies that had prior knowledge of the bombing.
This bombing was no surprise to anybody except the people who were killed.
We have a statement from Norma Smith, who was an employee in the courthouse, and she saw the bomb squad in front of the Murrah Building between 7.30 and 8 o'clock in the morning.
We have a statement from Lester Marks, who is the agent in charge of the Dallas ATF office, and he confirmed the existence of some kind of a sting operation the night before and said, quote, the bad guys didn't show up.
Between you and me, I don't know if I can take the word of a BATF officer about anything ever, but he did say that, okay?
Well, you're right, but we do know that at least part of the intent of this whole thing was esteem.
There were people, and two of them were John Doe No.
2 and what people have described as being Tim McVeigh, who traveled all over the country telling people to watch Oklahoma City.
And that they were going to do something.
They didn't tell anybody what they were going to do.
They just said, watch Oklahoma City.
And there were not just these people who had been accused, but other people doing this.
And they were doing this to patriot leaders and patriot militia people around the country to try to entrap them into helping them.
And some of them may have been I don't really know.
I think the whole thing has backfired and I think they weren't able to affect that steam thing.
But the rest of it, we know exactly what that was.
This is the American Reichstag all over again.
But go ahead and continue.
I wanted to make sure that everybody does know that at least part of the intent of why they let this thing go through And why the whole thing was probably dreamed up and promulgated and caused to happen in the first place was to try to discredit American patriots.
I don't really believe that any American patriots bought into this thing.
Some may have, I don't know.
Well, pursuing that same line of thought before I get back to prior knowledge about the people involved and going around the country trying to sell this idea.
We do have this one odd incident that first hit the press on the 26th of August about Eric Aaron Leiter of Honolulu, Hawaii.
Yes, he's wacko.
He was involved with Waco and a lot of disinformation, but go ahead, talk about it.
Well, he filed 30 pounds worth of documents with the courts asking to be included as a co-defendant with Nicholson McVeigh, and he said, this is a quote from him, Well, I already received the threatening call from a CIA co-operative that because of my disclosures, the next bomb will be my fault because of my disclosures.
This is no longer true.
Unquote.
He claims he participated in the international promotion and distribution of the bomb plans and the detonation sequence of the actual main bomb used in the Moore Building.
Now, when I first saw that, my initial thought was there's always somebody who wants to confess to every murder, you know?
Yeah.
His background is one indicative of someone who suffers from a mental illness.
He keeps turning up, and he keeps filing papers and trying to get in.
And I don't know his background, his history.
I can't find anything about him.
His background is one indicative of someone who suffers from a mental illness.
That's what his background appears to be in our study here.
Well, he is certainly providing some entertaining moments and driving the courts crazy because they have to respond to all of these pounds and pounds and pounds of documents that he files.
Yeah.
And he just won't go away.
He did the same thing with Waco.
Most of it absolute total bullshit.
Right.
Well, let's go back to prior knowledge before I lose that thought.
We know that the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms knew about it because one of their agents admitted that they knew about it and explained to the husband of one of the bombing victims who was frantically searching for his wife, that the husband would not find any BATF agents around because they were at a debriefing that morning, presumably about the event which had just occurred.
As far as the Oklahoma Fire Department goes, we've now got confirmation that they were warned on Friday before the bombing of a possible terrorist act by the Federal Bureau of Investigation.
The people who have confirmed this and said that this is a true statement are Chief Gaines, Assistant Chief Weathers, Assistant Chief John Hanson, and Dispatcher Persher, all in the Oklahoma City Fire Department Office.
And we've also learned from Chief Hanson now that the communication tapes that would have had the recorded record of this were destroyed.
They were taped over, all of those tapes, Uh, from the Friday before the bombing through the morning of the bombing have been taped.
Over.
How convenient.
This, you would think, in something that was the largest criminal act in the entire history of the state that due diligence would demand, that you not take over those.
Now, we don't know if this is accidental.
I'm not making any accusations here.
But the statement of fact is that they're gone.
It's history.
So, A lot of people knew about it in advance.
Easily 25% of the people who should have been at work that morning were not.
And then of course we had the questions about the number of people who were actually killed in the bombing and that's another story we can talk about if you want to.
Now there's another thing.
We caught the head of the ATF there in a bare faced lie, didn't we?
Oh, yeah, great to go.
Alec McCauley.
Right.
He was the one who said that he was in the elevator at the time of the explosion, and the elevator went into a five or six story free fall.
It lands and he walks away from the building unharmed.
And we know that that's a lie.
Well, yes, we do.
Number one, the elevators are the kind that have the safety mechanism that they could not have fallen no matter what happened.
They would have been wedged by the safety mechanism in the elevator shaft.
And also we have the testimony of the elevator people themselves.
Why don't you talk about that?
Right.
Well, they would have never made up that big lie if they'd taken the time to plan it out a little better.
But it just so happened that April the 19th was the same day that the annual inspection of the elevator was scheduled with the inspectors and the GSA office.
Prior to the bombing, you've got three elevator inspectors right there in the area waiting to go over at the right time to the building to meet with the General Services Administration representative and do the annual inspection.
Well, before they get there, the building blows up.
So they are right there on the scene.
They had three other elevator inspectors within five minutes of the location.
They all came in.
They all checked every elevator in the building.
Modern elevators do not go into a free fall.
The only way they can go into a free fall is if the cables are cut or severed in some way.
None of the elevator cables were severed in any of the elevators, and none of them fell.
Once the doors were kind of jammed open by the shaking of the building, those elevators were stuck where they were stuck.
And none of them fell.
They found no people in any of the elevator cars.
And, well, that's just it.
There was nobody in there.
Well, it's a moot point anyway.
if you jump up a five-story building, you're going to break your ankle.
If you don't walk away, you might roll away, fall away, whatever.
But he could not have fallen in an elevator five or six stories and walked away unharmed.
Well, it's a moot point anyway.
He said that he did, and we know for a fact that's indisputable that he lied.
It has been speculated, and I stress that word, speculated.
It has been speculated that McCauley made that story up because they desperately needed to have a BATF person or two in the building at the time of the explosion to cover their tails.
Yeah, well the establishment, media, and everybody else can speculate all they want to, From the hour of the time you get, he flat lied.
He's a liar.
I'll call him that to his face.
Yeah, he did.
There's no doubt about it.
Now, how about Bob Ricks?
Where did he say he was?
Well, Bob Ricks said that he was at a celebrity golf tournament for the Special Olympics in Shawnee with, conveniently, the head of the DEA and the head of the Secret Service.
And what's the truth about that?
Well, we cannot find any evidence at all of a celebrity golf tournament occurring anywhere in the state from newspapers before and after the bombing.
And I investigated this, and Mr. Wilburn also investigated this.
We obtained copies of the Shawnee papers for days before and days after.
I went to the library and checked all of the state papers and the little loper ones as well for days before and days after.
There was no celebrity golf tournament anywhere.
That's right.
That's a little bit for otherwise, but he's still telling that story.
He doesn't know that we know.
And he specifically stated that it was in Shawnee.
Yes he did.
And I'll tell you something else.
I've had other people call every golf course in that entire county in which Shawnee sits and there was no golf tournament of any kind, much less celebrities, at any golf course in that entire county.
And there weren't very many.
Right, and that would have been Tottowatermi County.
That's correct.
In addition to the above, if I'm not mistaken, I may be mistaken.
Wasn't the Secret Service head, Mr. McCullough?
I'm not sure if he was the head of that department or not, but he's dead.
He was killed.
That's right.
So there's a big problem here.
A very big problem, yes.
The head of the Secret Service was killed so he couldn't have been playing golf with Bob Ricks.
Well, and Bob Ricks told that story.
Bob Ricks lied.
He was not playing at a celebrity golf tournament in Shawnee, Oklahoma.
He lied.
He told that to the press within the past three weeks.
Yes.
And it was on the front page of the Daily Oklahoman.
So he just doesn't know that we know.
Or he would not be saying that.
Well, unfortunately, they think that we're so stupid.
You see, they're so arrogant beyond belief.
They think that we're absolutely stupid.
Socialists make this mistake all the time.
I make that statement with no reservations.
Bob Ricks is in on bringing about the downfall of the United States, i.e., he's a socialist.
Because those are the people who are bringing about the New World Order.
There is no doubt about it, and they have made this mistake over and over and over in their history.
They claim to be for the common man, and they claim to be bringing about this utopian world where there will be only one class of people, and everybody will live well, and everybody will share everything.
The truth is, is they are extremely elitist, and they have a disdain and an arrogance Right.
For the common man.
They hate the common man.
They call them cattle, really, to tell you the truth.
And they lie to them and they manipulate them with these lies.
And that's exactly what Bob Ricks is doing.
That's exactly what they're all doing.
And that's why they think that they're going to get away with this stuff.
Right.
Well, of course, we still don't have an accurate body count.
And we've got some problems out of El Reno.
So what do we address next?
What's next on your list?
You've got about seven minutes.
Eight minutes.
Okay.
Well, um, we can do both of these pretty quickly.
Sure.
Um, let's talk about the mystery leg of the body count.
Uh, the official death count at this time of people killed in the Murrell Building or in the, uh, in Barnes is 169.
is 169.
On May the 30th when the rescue workers removed the last three bodies from the imploded federal building they found this unidentified leg which had been traumatically amputated above the knee.
This mystery leg made the headlines, and it was stated at that time that the leg belonged to a Caucasian, dark-haired male, probably under the age of 30, whose height in life would have been between 5'3 and 5'9, And it was clothed in a black military-type combat boot, size 9, had two socks on, and an olive drab blousing strap.
And this leg was subjected to DNA testing by both the OU Health Sciences Center here in Oklahoma City, by the FBI in Washington, D.C., by Clyde Snow here in Norman, who is a world-class forensic anthropologist guide.
Now that was on Well, let's see.
The leg was found on the 30th.
It hit the headlines in August.
Okay?
Then, time passes.
Everybody's wondering who's the owner of the missing leg.
A lady thinks it belongs to her son.
Then, for some reason, something happened.
And on the 23rd of August, they decide, no, it wasn't a Caucasian male.
I want to make this point before you go on.
With African-American characteristics, the boot is now a woman-sized 7 1��2.
And so it remains a mystery.
But that leg is just one part of the problem.
Because we've also got 80, well, it's in excess of 80.
I want to make this point before you go in.
Here are forensic experts.
Here is the FBI.
Here is the coroner and the medical examiners and forensic experts all saying, this was a Caucasian male with dark hair, probably between 5, 5 what?
Five three and five nine.
Five three and five nine with a boot that was size nine.
Right.
And then all of a sudden, a few weeks later, it changes to a black female and the boot size changes to a female seven and a half.
Right.
Now, only a fool is going to buy this baloney, but go ahead.
Well, nobody is buying it, and poor Clyde Snow, who is such a nice man, went on the television and said, oh, it's all my fault, and then he conveniently left the country.
Yeah.
And at that point, the mystery leg was mentioned.
No more.
A lot of people have left the country and can't be found.
Like the initial reporters, the local media reporters who were on the scene initially, can't be found anymore.
Oh, well, yeah, Deborah Loren and Dave Balut.
Miss Schilmaker was promoted into the state of Colorado.
She's now a big anchor person there, but a lot of our local reported people have just vanished.
Yeah.
There are about the other parts that were found when they were cleaning up.
There are over 80 severed body parts, tissue samples, hair samples, that have all been subjected to DNA testing.
None of them, none of them match each other.
None of them match any of the known victims who have been now buried.
Now that's incredible because what you're saying is there are 80 more people who we have pieces of but nobody's saying that they're missing.
That's correct.
And there has been talk of upping the official death count because of it, but nothing has taken place in that regard.
And there's also talk of burying them in a common tissue grave, but they can't do that until after the trials are over.
We had a big problem with the official death count because there were three people who were assigned tagging the bodies on the afternoon of the 19th.
And before dinner time, they had tagged 122.
But at dinner time, the official death count given from the medical examiner's office was 22 dead, 17 children.
But that was from the media.
That wasn't really from the medical examiner's office.
Well, no.
That's right, because he did not say that there were 17 children.
That's right he didn't.
It was the next day and he changed that official quote unquote report to 12.
Right.
And we never could account for the oddity there.
Well the oddity was they were making the link with Waco.
Well let's see the government said 81 had 17 children.
Right.
That was the Waco connection.
Right.
But they were only claiming actually 22 victims at the end of the day and there were well over 122 victims.
Uh huh.
A lot more people dead probably than they say, and we don't know why, and we don't know who they are.
And nobody is coming forward that we know of to say, my uncle, my son, my dad didn't come home.
I have no information about this.
So that remains a lot of unanswered questions that need to be addressed.
Somebody needs to address them.
Well, a lot of people are attempting to do that.
You know that our forces are doing everything that we can.
Right.
While we're on the subject, folks, I have to tell you that our investigation is telling us that this whole Middle Eastern Arab thing is disinformation.
It is the wrong way to go.
John Doe No.
2 was not Arabic.
He was not Iranian or Iraq, and he certainly wasn't Japanese, and the Japanese were not involved in this, for all of you people out there who think it was.
And remember, folks, Sherman Skolnick is the guy that said three Israelis disguised as goofy Mickey Mouse and Yosemite Sam snuck into the White House, killed Vince Foster, and carried his body out, and nobody even challenged him.
And Skolnick is now promoting the Japanese blew up the building thing.
So, you know, he has done some proper work in the past, but the Vince Foster and the Japanese, he's gone off the cliff.
And I don't know whether he's doing it intentionally or whether he's been duped or whether he's just tired and isn't checking his facts anymore.
Well, you have to check that Disney connection, don't you?
You always have to check the Disney connection.
Well, we've got just a few minutes left.
Let me throw out the El Reno problem very quickly because... Okay, you've got about one minute actually.
All right.
Former Security Chief of the El Reno Federal Correctional Institution, Charles Mildner, Uh, demanded that security in the McVeigh-Nichols ward be increased because, first, syringes were found on the food trays going into that ward, and second, a cigarette butt was found on the food tray going to Nichols, which, when the paper's removed, it can be set on fire, and then it gets very hard, and you can flatten it into a weapon.
He set up the situation where one guard only would handle those trays, and everything would be checked.
That order was countermanded by his supervisor saying that it was too much trouble, And they didn't want any of this to go on, so they put Milgner basically under house arrest.
He stood on suspension, told to stay home, in his home during office hours.
His home was on the grounds of the prison.
And since that time, they've continued to deny everything, and Milgner has been transferred out.
We're about unknown.
And we have tried very, very hard, and with tremendous diligence, to contact him, and with no success.
Absolutely.
It's been a very big frustration, and now I have no idea where he is.
His attorney, David Wilson in Stigler, Oklahoma, has no comment.
And that's the only connection left that I can check here at the end.
So there's another mystery.
There's a lot of things that we're still working on this.
The investigation is far from over, but we're doing the best we can and we sure appreciate all the help that everybody out there has given us.
And if anybody out there has additional information, You can certainly make it anonymously or if you want to give your name you can.
We always protect our sources.
Ladies and gentlemen, that's one thing that she just said that you can bank on.
We protect our sources.
We never ever betray a source under any circumstances and I'll go to jail for the rest of my life rather than betray the trust that someone has put in me.
You can count on that also.
And you can count on Michelle.
She is under oath of allegiance.
She is a member of the Second Continental Army of the Republic.
She is the Station Chief and has tremendous responsibility and has proven over and over and over again that she is responsible and trustworthy and that her loyalty is always in the right place.
Good night, Michelle, and thank you so much.
Thank you very much, Bill, and God bless.
Hug Annie for me.
Okay.
Good night.
Good night, folks, and God bless you all. .
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