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Oct. 9, 1995 - Bill Cooper
01:00:09
Sons of the Gestapo, FBI Deposition #1
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Time Text
*Might Power* Please, Nathaniel, take me to her.
No, it's a pain in the neck, Nathaniel.
Please, Nathaniel, take me to her.
No, it's a pain in the neck, Nathaniel.
Please, Nathaniel, take me to her.
No, it's a pain in the neck, Nathaniel.
Please, Nathaniel, take me to her.
No, it's a pain in the neck, Nathaniel.
Please, Nathaniel, take me to her.
No, it's a pain in the neck, Nathaniel.
Please, Nathaniel, take me to her.
No, it's a pain in the neck, Nathaniel.
Please, Nathaniel, take me to her.
No, it's a pain in the neck, Nathaniel.
Please, Nathaniel, take me to her.
No, it's a pain in the neck, Nathaniel.
Please, Nathaniel, take me to her.
No, it's a pain in the neck, Nathaniel.
Oh, my God.
You're listening to the Hour of the Time.
I'm William Cooper.
Ladies and gentlemen, there are some really...
I started to say strange, but I can't do that because I predicted that these things would happen.
The continuing round of bullshit, I guess, is never going to end until we get the guns out of the hands of all American citizens.
And they have everybody that they consider politically incorrect, or followers of the Founders, or however you want to put it, behind bars someplace.
I've got to tell you, this is incredible.
The media has discredited itself again.
Oh, man.
These little tin horn, two-bit puppets that work for the Communist News Network are beyond, beyond salvation.
They've gone beyond airhead.
They now qualify for no head whatsoever.
Come on, Joe.
Get over here by the tracks, hurry.
Here, keep pulling those spikes out.
I'll teach that railroad to fire me.
The freight train's coming through in ten minutes.
What'd you say your name was?
Boxman?
Don't call me Boxman.
Well, what's your name, then?
Call me Abe.
All right, Abe.
Come on, let's get out of here.
Somebody's coming.
All right, all right, all right.
I'm going to get back to New York right away.
Thank you.
well well that's what happened today folks down in uh...
arizona Little town, just southwest of Phoenix, and no, it was not near the border.
And no, I don't know who did it.
Nope, I sure don't.
But I'll tell you this.
Nobody else in this world does either, and my little scenario is just as good as what you heard on the news today.
In fact, it's probably 5,000 times more accurate, and in any case, it's more truthful.
I don't know what the name of the guys were, and I was just, you know, playacting here.
But these guys on the Communist News Networks, and the Allied Broadcast of Communism, and the National Communist Broadcast, and the The Communist Broadcasting System are just a pack of nitwit puppeteer parrot liars.
That's a fact.
Now, let me sort of brush you up just in case you weren't paying attention today.
You know, that's possible.
That is really possible, ladies and gentlemen.
Where am I here?
Where's my thing?
Oh, here we go.
From KFOR, Channel 4 News in Oklahoma City.
And this is from our Oklahoma people, by the way, which are always on the ball.
Kevin Ogle, the co-anchor, says this.
There's one reported dead and at least 78 others hurting today from a train derailment of an Amtrak passenger train in southwest Arizona.
Several of the cars plunged off a wooden bridge into a dry ravine.
After a day-long investigation, law enforcement authorities have come to the conclusion that domestic terrorists sabotaged the rail lines.
The group responsible?
The County Sheriff in Arizona thinks it's a group calling itself, quote, the Sons of the Gestapo, end quote.
Well, I've got to tell you, these New World Order boys are not very imaginative at all.
Alan Martin is in the sky center with more on what looks to be sabotaged.
I hate to even ask what Sky Center is and how they got that Sky Center from Oklahoma to Arizona.
Alan Martin, reporter.
Kevin, I am reporting from Hyder, Arizona, about 80 miles southwest of Phoenix.
One of the bartenders on that derailed Amtrak train said that a passenger came up to him with a piece of paper that he'd found on the tracks.
That typewritten one-page letter was anti-FBI and anti-Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms, ATF.
It specifically mentions Waco and the Branch Davidians and Randy Weaver's standoff in Ruby Ridge, Idaho.
Hoo-hoo!
Well, who'd have thunk it?
My golly, didn't I predict that?
Not long ago?
Didn't I predict that this would continue and exactly these kinds of things would come out of it?
Some other evidence found on the tax included this.
Red electrical wire, yes sir, connected the rails together.
Sources say the wire bypassed the computer alarm system, which tells the train queue there is a break in the tracks.
29 spikes, count them, 29, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29 spikes were pulled from a 19-foot section of the track.
The train hit the sabotage section at normal speed, and it is lucky more people weren't killed.
Yes, sir.
The sheriff says he is sure this is domestic terrorism.
Your pal.
Well, The county sheriff says they sort of separated the tracks and put a wire between the tracks to not alert the computerized system.
This was an outtake.
Thomas M. Downs, Amtrak president.
Someone obviously intended to drop the train off the trestle into the ravine.
Also an outfit.
Alan Martin, the reporter.
The ATF officials we tried to contact today, both in Oklahoma City and Dallas, were off for the Columbus Day holiday.
We hope to talk to them tomorrow.
My golly, they were out of the office again.
Ha ha.
Do these guys ever work?
The terrorism experts we talked to today had not heard of, quote, the sons of the Gestapo, end quote.
The director of what is called Clanwatch hadn't heard of that Gestapo group either.
But he said Arizona is a very active state when it comes to white supremacists and the paramilitary.
Of course, we saw the Kingman, Arizona connection in the federal bombing right here.
Lying puke.
There's no connection with anything with the federal bombing so far, and no one has been convicted.
Of anything.
There's no connection to the militia, our patriots, our white supremacists, or any of this other bullshit.
These guys are liars.
Heather Unruh.
You know Heather.
Miss cutesy dimple cheek.
I am Heather.
I'm a cutie dimple cheek.
The message seems to be that we are very vulnerable, but I'm wondering how in the world can we possibly avoid something like this?
And here we go from Heather Unruh to Dr. Randall Heather.
Is this more imaginative tweaking with actors or what?
He's a terrorist expert.
I never heard of him, have you?
Well, the situation is similar to any kind of domestic terrorism incident, including the incident in Oklahoma City.
We can't go out and guard every mile of Amtrak, or every federal building, or every federal facility.
It's intelligence work!
It's the penetration of these groups, these right-wing groups, that will enable us to find the solution, rather than trying to guard I guess that is the question now.
What do people do about this?
A lot of people ride trains from here and all over the country.
What do you do?
Do you avoid them?
Oh, have you seen my dimple?
Just look right here.
Here's my little dimple cheek.
I'm cutesy dimple cheek.
My name is Heather.
Hi.
Dr. Heather.
I think this situation, this is probably something that's been planned for quite a long time.
The complexity in what they did to the train rail link, they knew what they were doing.
This was well planned out.
I don't think this is something that is going to happen every week.
I think in the face of terrorism, you must carry on through our normal activities and hope that security forces and the intelligence networks can track these people down.
When we talk about domestic terrorism, can you explain the differences and the similarities between this and the Oklahoma City bombing?
Yes.
Should I read that to you again, folks?
When we talk about domestic terrorism, can you explain the difference and the similarities between this and the Oklahoma City bombing?
I'm Dimple Chief Heather.
I'm a Q-T.
I think it's similar in terms of the note left by the train tracks talking about the ATF and the federal government.
So this seems to be one of those anti-federal government groups, these extreme white-wing groups.
They may have taken initiative seeing the Oklahoma City bombing saying, well, we can do this too.
We can strike at the federal government.
This is a very important change, however.
The strategy may be the same, attacking the government, But with lots of people around, lots of witnesses, lots of policemen.
In Oklahoma City, they attacked a large building in a built-up area.
In this case, they're out in the desert.
There will be virtually no witnesses and probably very little evidence of who did it.
And it's a very important change in tactics from what happened in Oklahoma City.
Have you heard of this group?
The sons of the Gestapo!
Oh, I'm scared!
Oh, I'm Dale Heather, Deputy Chief Jitsi, and I'm scared!
Oh, the sons of the Gestapo!
I think this is probably just a throwaway name that they have made up for the attack.
The databases have been checked by the FBI and other police groups, and this group has not come up before in the past.
It has no history.
Dr. Randall Heather, Thank you for joining us in our newsroom tonight.
I'm here to unravel.
Kiss you, dance you.
Well, absolutely amazing.
Agenda-driven domestic terrorism?
Another Oklahoma City?
Well, just in case you still don't know what's going on, folks, Amtrak's Sunset Limited was wrecked this morning on a little-used stretch of track south of Phoenix, Arizona, as a result of sabotage.
It was not high-tech sabotage.
It wasn't even sophisticated.
They pulled some spikes out of the track, pulled the track over, attached a wire between the two broken pieces so that it wouldn't flag the signal and stop the train, and that's all there was to it.
You had to know something about the railroad and how the signals work and how the emergency system works.
So it probably is somebody who works for the railroad who got fired or is angry at their boss or something like that.
I really don't know.
But Joe Blow, average citizen and white supremacist, don't know how to do that, even though it was a simple thing to do.
They would have never known to rig the wire.
Somebody knew what they were doing.
Knew a lot about the railroad.
probably a disgruntled employee.
The signals were not sabotage.
The tracks were damaged at a trestle to derail the train into a gully.
It's very revealing folks because it turns out the train tracks are electrified so broken tracks will turn signals red.
So whoever did this just attached a wire between the two tracks that they pulled apart before they pulled them apart to keep the signals from turning red.
Also, this stretch of track is one of the least used in the nation's railroad system.
Eighteen hours have elapsed since the last train ran over the tracks, and whoever did it may not have even known that it was going to be a passenger train.
It was reported by the Maricopa County Sheriff, they say, this is what you've been hearing on the national news, that two notes were found at the scene of the wreck.
But I gotta tell you something, folks.
I called them.
Talked to them, personally.
You know what they said?
They said they never found any notes.
Period.
No one claimed any credit for the train wreck, let alone a group called Sons of the Gessapo.
It's a lie.
Never happened.
Never occurred.
There were no notes.
Nobody claimed credit.
There is no Sons of the Gestapo, and never has been, never was been, and never will be, except in the imagination of people like the ADL.
The FBI has taken charge of the investigation.
Also talk to them.
And they say, There are no Sons of the Gestapo.
There were no notes found, and nobody has taken credit.
There was no letter written to the President of the Railroad.
None of the stuff that you heard on the Communist news networks was true.
They made it up out of whole cloth.
It is a bare-faced lie.
They have discredited themselves again.
They are puppets, parrots, liars, and scum.
And I don't think anybody ought to let them get away with it.
People should be calling 24 hours a day, CNN, ABC, CBS, every station that reported this lie, and you should be ramming it down their throat.
Tell them you're never going to listen to their news again.
You're sick and tired of their anti-American socialist bullshit, and you're never, ever going to turn to that channel and watch it again.
Tell them they are un-American.
And if they really want to go somewhere where they're appreciated, there's still one communist country left in the world.
It's called Cuba.
And yes, you might have to look, and you might have to call information, and you might have to do a little work to find the numbers to call.
But I think it's about time you did, don't you?
Don't you think it's about time you stuck this right where it belongs?
Right down their throat?
They're liars.
Scum, poop-faced liars.
Another attempt by these lying puppet parrots has failed.
Isn't it amazing?
Isn't it something that these so-called journalists never even check anything before they report it?
They just say what's handed to them.
You see, you think Dan Rather is smart.
You really believe Peter Jennings has a brain.
Do you really think Barbara Walters has some wheels turning up there?
No, folks.
Somebody gives them a piece of paper and they just read off of it.
Or they look at this teleprompter that's in front of them and they read off of that something that other people have prepared and approved well in advance.
That's right.
They're paid to look pretty and say what's put in front of them without asking any questions whatsoever.
They are bald-faced, bare-assed, stinking, puke-mouthed, puppet-parrot liars.
And you can tell them I said so.
It won't surprise them, because I've already done it.
And I will continue to do it.
And I just did it again, didn't I?
Now, I'm very happy because a lot of people could have really been killed today.
So far only one person is dead.
I regret that one person's death sincerely.
But I'm very happy that more people are not dead And I hope that those who are injured recover the full use of their body and their full health very quickly.
And it's a shame we can't sue these liars in the media because they need to be sued.
Thank you.
They need to be raked across the coals.
And here's another thing.
Did you miss the last U.N.
flag raising and wish you'd been there to make a difference?
Well, here's your chance, folks.
In Lansing, Michigan, Tuesday, October the 24th at 10 a.m., at the City Hall building directly across from the Capitol building in downtown Lansing, the mayor is planning to raise the United Nations flag.
And he says if protesters show up, he's going to use gas.
So folks, here's what we're asking you to do.
Go to Lansing, Michigan.
Be there Tuesday, October 24th at 10 a.m.
Take your gas mask.
Take all the gear that you've been getting ready and test it out.
And if the mayor uses gas, just calmly in the midst of the gas storm, walk up, pull that stinking, traitorous flag down, stomp it into the dust and then burn it.
That's right.
And tell him you heard it on the hour of the time.
But don't hurt any person.
Do not hurt any person.
Period.
You can also tell him I said that.
Let me see what else we have here.
Because I do have something else.
Oh, here it is.
Oh yes.
Oh yes, oh yes, oh yes.
There's a guy named Ray Lampley.
Ray Lampley thought he was going to get away with something.
He forged this letter on White House stationery, which he obviously copied off of some Internet forum somewhere.
And I'm going to read it to you.
It has the White House seal This is the White House, Washington, September 25, 1995.
To the Honorable Arlen Specter, United States Senate, Hart Building, Room 530, Washington, D.C., 20515.
Dear Senator Specter, The administration is quietly looking into the feasibility of enforcing Executive Order 10998 to control the stockpiling of foods by survivalists, patriots, militias, and others who have anticipated the shortages we anticipate will soon develop.
Due to the impact it is now having upon the present stock level of the national food supply, this will involve confiscation of food supplies beyond a thirty-day supply, arrest, or removal of those who are stockpiling.
This action, by these Christian, Mormon, and other cult groups, is producing substantial food shortages across the nation.
Your input as a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee is respectfully solicited.
Sincerely, Signed, Bill Clinton Well, this is a fake, folks.
It's a fraud, and it's a forgery.
And this guy, this little twit, named Ray Lampley, did it.
Now, I'm not going to tell you what's wrong with this letter, or how I knew the first second that I laid eyes on it that it was a fake.
And it's not just one thing, it's several things.
But I did.
And I put the word out over the Internet, and also to Linda Thompson, who also put the word out, who had also done some checking.
And let me tell you about this guy, Ray Lampley.
He signs his posts in Yahshua's name, Ray Lampley, Prophet of the Most High God.
Well, Ray Lampley, you're not a prophet of the Most High God or anything else.
You're a silly little twit who got caught forging, faking a government document, and forging the signature of the President of the United States, and I hope you go to jail for it.
This was flying all over the Internet.
And people were touting it as being real and passing it on like they always do, just like the Patriot Facts Network and the Militia of Montana do with crap like that all the time.
So I thought I'd better let you know about it, just in case a copy of it comes your way.
I don't go away because, you know, I didn't want to spend this much time on other things at the beginning of the broadcast tonight, because I promised you I would begin reading to you a deathbed deposition of an FBI agent who wanted to come clean, and I'm going to do that right after this break, ladies and gentlemen, so don't go away.
I shall return.
Yes, sir.
I shall. I shall.
I shall.
They had mental setups prepared for everyone, every day.
Make the checkups for everyone, every day.
IH, the people of the world's traditional political system reminds me of about a year to a thousand.
The air is on the air.
And then I'll roll the ball back.
I think that's far too close, isn't it?
They should all put five.
Four, right?
Oil.
Let's go back to the memory of the family.
R-I-P.
Radio hypnotized user cerebral control.
Electronica distribution of memory.
E-G-O-M.
By the way, folks, all the music during tonight's broadcast is taken from an album from Call this island Earth, done by my friend Mark Nine.
I like his music.
I like the way he weaves all this stuff together to help educate people who only listen to music.
The Hour of the Time, folks, is brought to you by Swiss America Trading.
They are our friends.
They've been backing this broadcast going on, I guess, about three years now.
And they've stuck through thick or thin.
They deal in non-confiscable, non-reportable hard assets.
That is, non-confiscable and non-reportable.
Now.
But I don't believe that's going to last.
Not at all.
You see, what I think is going to happen is in order to gain total control of the economy and enslave everybody in a system of never-ending cashless debt chained to a computer, they're going to suck everybody into the stock market that they possibly can.
And they've been doing that.
It's so artificially inflated, it's beyond any kind of reason.
And then someday they're just going to pull the plug.
Could happen this month, as a matter of fact.
Going to pull the plug.
And the downward spiral is going to bring this country to its knees.
You think the great stock market crash of 29 was bad.
You haven't seen anything yet.
And as people try to bail out of stocks and try to put their money into the rapidly rising gold and silver, which is what happens when stock markets crash, gold and silver goes through the roof, they will pull all the gold and silver that they've been hoarding in their vaults throughout history and flood the market with it.
Gold and silver prices will drop to literally nothing and all the stupid fools will sell everything they've got.
Stocks, bonds, silver, gold, everything.
All they'll be left with is their debt paper on their house, their car, their washing machine, their refrigerator, their freezer, their kids, everything.
In other words, they're going to be up the creek without the proverbial paddle.
And they're not going to get back down.
Those who are smart will hold on to their gold and silver.
Because the big boys that flooded the market when the price goes down to nothing will buy it all back.
And whoever's left with their gold and silver coins will be the king of the back alley market.
Thank you.
And oh yes, there will be one.
The only place where you'll be able to get things like Tampax and toilet paper and toothpaste and toothbrushes.
And maybe even bread.
Amen.
Because there's going to be a long period where commodities are not going to be available While they bring the mob to its knees.
And then when everybody is sufficiently starved and hungry and tired of killing each other, and that's the reason why I have advised you to form militias, and you go back and listen to all my tapes, I've said it over and over and over again, the militia is to maintain law and order
and military and political control of your local communities, counties, cities, and states to prevent what I know is going to happen to all of you good people.
You see, this whole country is going to come apart.
People are going to rob from each other and kill for a can of beans.
Some of your Wonderful people that you know, that you think are so neat, are going to turn into raiding maniacs and little warlords, and they'll form their little gangs and try to take over and rape and plunder and steal just like they have throughout history.
And unless you have a good, strong militia that's willing to work with law and order, you'll be at the mercy of these goons.
Not to mention whatever the government decides to do while all this is going on.
Who is the one?
And we have our ideas about that also.
We believe that during this period, most patriots, if they're not careful, will just disappear.
And you might even be told that they were raptured.
Don't believe it for a minute.
Not even for a second, folks.
So if you want to protect yourself, you need to do several You need to stock lots of water, lots of food.
You need to have a good, strong militia.
And if you don't belong to one, start one of your own.
Do it under the law, according to the traditions and the history and the laws of the nation.
And make sure you have some real money.
Real money.
Now, don't write me and say I left something.
I didn't leave anything out.
Nothing whatsoever.
If you join the militia, you know what you've got to have to belong there.
And this ain't no religious program, folks.
So if you belong to a religion, it's up to you to decide how you're going to provide for your spiritual health.
It's not up to me to tell you.
But I can turn you on to the best place to get some real money, and that's Swiss America trading.
And in the future, here, if Jim Newman gets off his duff and sends me the stuff he's supposed to send me, we're going to offer you some good prices on some food storage.
Nothing like the prices we've offered in the past, because the prices have gone up and we can't do it anymore.
So if you procrastinated, you lost out, because we had the best deals in the nation, and we'll still have the best deals in the nation.
But you guys that got your food storage back when we had the real good deals, you really made out.
Those of you who didn't, you better make sure that you get them when we bring you these offers here in the next few weeks or months.
But in the meantime, you can all call Swiss America Trading and make some arrangements to get your hands on some real money.
And when you see all this foolishness going on with the stock market and the price of gold and silver and all that stuff, don't pay any attention to it.
Just keep that smile on your face, and if anybody asks you why you're smiling, tell them you had a good dream last night.
1-800-289-2646.
That's 1-800-289-2646.
And don't worry folks, if people call you crazy, they've been calling me crazy for years, but every single thing that I have ever predicted has come true, except for one.
I said that Manuel Noriega would never serve any time in jail.
At the time I made that prediction, based upon the knowledge that I had, I had no idea they were so far along that they could get away with something like that.
That's the only prediction I've ever made that's ever been wrong.
So you'd better think about that before you decide to ignore what I'm telling you.
If you want to call me crazy, that's alright with me.
Join the line.
It's a big, long line.
Full of fools.
1-800-289-2646.
1-800-289-2646.
You'll be glad that you did. 2-800-289-2646.
That's a very interesting question.
Voices are broadcast directly into the brain.
The End
His name is William R. Stringer.
This deposition was given by William R. Stringer on Tuesday, October the 18th, 1994, beginning at 1.30 p.m.
in the offices of W.O.
Dillard, Chancellor, third floor, Hines County, Chancery Court Building, 316 South President Street, Jackson, Mississippi.
Appearance was made before the Honorable W. O. Dillard, Chancellor, 5th Chancery Court District, State of Mississippi, Post Office Box 686, Jackson, Mississippi, 39205.
Also present was Burris Dunn.
It was reported by Ruth A. Olinsky, CSR, official court reporter, Post Office Box 686, Jackson, Mississippi, 39205.
Pay close attention.
Judge Dillard, let me state that this deposition is being taken at 1.30 p.m.
in my chambers in the Fifth Chancellery Court District, Division II, in Jackson, Hines County, Mississippi, of William R. Stringer.
William R. Stringer, having been first duly sworn by the court reporter, was examined and testified under oath as follows to wit.
Examination by Judge Dillard.
Question.
And first off, I would like to ask Mr. Stringer, if you would, in your own words, you tell us if this is your statement that's given of your own free will and volition, and you have not been promised anything or have no hope of reward, and that no one has threatened you or induced you in any way other than your desire to tell the truth So in your own words, answer by William R. Stringer, let me get in there my identity first.
Judge, okay, so I'll just make that preface and now you may take it from there.
Answer, okay, and from now on I'll just say question and answer.
The questions are being conducted by Judge Dillard.
The answers are being given by William R. Stringer.
And cover whatever you want to cover.
Answer.
OK.
My name is William R. Stringer, spelled S-T-R-I-N-G-E-R.
I was born March 1st, 1927, at Birmingham, Alabama, to William M. and Mary Thelma Stringer Nye Chandler.
Thus, I am an American by birth and a white Southerner by the grace of God.
I began employment with the FBI.
You might spell that out, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, because some people, I found, don't even know what FBI means.
On January 20, 1947, in Washington, D.C., I subsequently worked in various offices of the FBI until January 23, 1970, when I arrived in Jackson, Mississippi, on transfer.
I make the following statement of my own free will, that no threats or promises have been made to me, and nothing has been used to coerce me into giving this statement.
But I give this statement of my desire to tell the truth about a certain situation and hope that the proper officials of our government will take the necessary action to bring about justice in this matter.
Is that all right?
Question.
That's fine.
Answer.
On or about a certain day in the year 1973, the exact date I do not recall, while I was in the office of the Jackson FBI, I was summoned to the office of Roy K. Moore, who was at that time the special agent in charge of the Jackson Division of the FBI.
Upon arriving in Mr. Moore's office, I observed Special Agent Thompson Barry, B-E-R-R-Y, Webb, W-E-B-B, to already be seated in Mr. Moore's office.
No other persons were present in the office besides Mr. Moore.
Mr. Moore immediately informed me that we were all aware that Tommy Webb was working on a case involving I can't think of his first name now.
Mr. Dunn.
Brian?
Answer.
Brian De La Beckwith.
Byron De La Beckwith.
And he desired for me to assist Tommy Webb in the case by assisting Webb in getting some sticks of dynamite into the automobile of Mr. Beckwith.
I immediately informed Mr. Moore that I absolutely would not participate in such an act, that such an act was of criminal action and would make me no better than any criminal I have ever tried or would try to obtain information on to convict them in court.
I told him I absolutely would not.
What was the word I used?
Mr. Dunn, participate.
The witness, no.
Answer, I absolutely would not set up Mr. Beckwith or any other person in an illegal manner.
Mr. Moore then stated to me that he was ordering me to work with Tommy Webb and get this dynamite into Beckwith's car so it could be used as evidence to convict him in a case.
I had no prior knowledge of any details of any investigation that the FBI had been conducting on Mr. Beckwith.
My knowledge of Mr. Beckwith consisted only of what I read in the newspaper and saw on the television and heard on radio.
Mr. Morgan stated to me, if I refused to assist Tommy Webb in putting the dynamite into Mr. Beckwith's car, he was going to have to do something to me, which he did not at first specify what he meant.
He, a few moments later, said that if I did not assist Tommy Webb, Special Agent Tommy Webb, in putting dynamite into Mr. Beckwith's car, That he was going to have all of Tommy Webb's work reassigned to me, and I would have to do my own work, as well as the work that was assigned Mr. Webb.
I told Mr. Moore that would be all right with me, but I still refused to do anything illegal.
I thereupon left Mr. Moore's office, and within a few days I started getting cases reassigned to me which had previously been assigned to Special Agent Tommy Webb.
I worked these cases, never complained to anyone about it.
And shortly thereafter, Tommy Webb started coming to my desk frequently, and sitting in the chair at the desk next to my desk, and informing me of the progress of his attempt to put dynamite in Mr. Beckwith's car.
I told Special Agent Tommy Webb that I didn't even desire to hear anything about what he was doing because I thought it was not only illegal, but it was a black spot on the history of the FBI as far as I was concerned.
When one of its agents would illegally frame a person in the manner in which he intended to do.
This did not stop Tommy Webb from coming to my desk on a frequent basis and informing me of his attempts to get the dynamite into Mr. Beckwith's automobile.
In fact, on one occasion, Special Agent Tommy Webb informed me that he had obtained the dynamite by purchasing it at the Dixie Dynamite Company.
Which was at that time located on Northside Drive across the street from the Mississippi Power and Light Company substation.
He informed me that he told the lady in the Dixie Dynamite Company office, in making application for the explosive, that he intended to use the dynamite to blow up stumps on his mother's farm in Rankin County, Mississippi.
He stated, however, that that was the dynamite he was trying to get into Mr. Beckwith's automobile.
This went on for some time, probably several months.
I did not make any notes on what Mr. Webb said or take any notes on the date and times that I talked with him.
However, on a certain day, several months after Roy K. Moore ordered me to assist Special Agent Tommy Webb in putting dynamite into Mr. Beckwith's automobile, I heard quite a bit of activity on my car radio.
which I knew to be Special Agent Tommy Webb talking to the dispatcher of our radio in the office and telling her that he was then, at that time, working on the Beckwith case and would be in touch with her from time to time.
I made no attempt to monitor any of the conversation that Special Agent Webb had later with the dispatcher, but continued to work on the matters which had been assigned to me.
On a certain date, approximately two to three weeks after that time of hearing Special Agent Webb talking with the dispatcher on the radio, Special Agent Webb came to my desk to inform me that Mr. Beckwith had been in Jackson earlier and that he had been notified of Mr. Beckwith coming to Jackson before he actually arrived by being informed of Mr. Beckwith's intention by Gordon Clark, who he referred to as one of his informants.
Special Agent Webb thereafter informed me that Mr. Beckwith came to the place of employment of Mr. Clark, at which time he, Special Agent Webb, attempted to put the dynamite into Mr. Beckwith's car, but was unable to do so, as Mr. Beckwith seemed to be watching his automobile very closely.
He stated that thereafter Gordon Clark informed him that he had called L. E. Matthews of Florence Mississippi, who was another supposedly FBI informant, and that Mr. Matthews did show up at Mr. Clark's place of employment.
According to Special Agent Webb, Mr. Clark, Mr. Matthews, and Mr. Beckwith all went to lunch at the Mayflower Cafe on Capitol Street in Jackson, Mississippi.
While they were in the Mayflower Cafe, Special Agent Webb stated that he used a key to Mr. Beckwith's car, which he had previously obtained.
and entered Mr. Beckwith's car, which was on a street off Capitol Street, beside the Mayflower Café, at which time he placed several sticks of dynamite, an alarm clock, and a battery on the floor of Mr. Beckwith's automobile behind the driver's seat.
He stated that he then closed and re-locked the doors to Mr. Beckwith's car and returned to his own car, which was an F.B.I.
car assigned to him, which was parked up the street.
Special Agent Webb informed me that sometime thereafter, Mr. Beckwith came out from the Mayflower Café and got in his car and drove away.
Special Agent Webb informed me that he then followed the vehicle of Mr. Beckwith and followed him to New Orleans, Louisiana.
He stated that upon arriving in New Orleans, he radioed the New Orleans FBI office on the FBI radio in his automobile and informed the New Orleans radio dispatcher that Mr. Beckwith was in New Orleans and that he had dynamite in his automobile and had the dispatcher to inform the New Orleans Police Department of the whereabouts of Mr. Beckwith.
Special Agent Webb then informed me that he followed Mr. Beckwith from a short distance and observed Mr. Beckwith to turn into a side street which was a one-way street with Mr. Beckwith headed in the wrong way.
Immediately thereafter, Mr. Beckwith was stopped by a motorcycle-riding policeman who walked up to the side of Mr. Beckwith's car.
Mr. Webb stated he did not overhear what the conversation was between Mr. Beckwith and the policeman as he remained far enough away that he was not observed by Mr. Beckwith.
Special Agent Webb thereafter informed me that the FBI, including himself, I took this case of interstate transportation of an explosive device to the Federal Grand Jury in New Orleans, Louisiana, and the Grand Jury returned a true bill of indictment.
Shortly thereafter, Special Agent Webb returned to my desk in the FBI office and informed me that he had just returned from New Orleans, Louisiana, where Mr. Beckwith was tried in federal court on the federal charge of interstate transportation of an explosive device.
He stated further that when the jury went out of the room to decide whether they wanted to vote guilty or not guilty, the judge, whose name Special Agent Webb did not inform me, called the United States Attorney and the Defense Attorney to the bar and told the United States Attorney that he did not believe the testimony which Special Agent Webb had given, and that if the jury returned a not-guilty verdict, he wanted Mr. Webb investigated for possibly giving perjured testimony.
Mr. Dunn.
Question.
Did you not mean to say if they returned a guilty verdict or a not guilty verdict?
Answer.
No.
If they brought back a not guilty verdict.
Question.
Okay.
Answer.
He wanted them investigated.
Question.
I'm sorry.
I didn't mean to interrupt.
Answer.
Okay.
Let me get my bearings.
Where was I?
And then they spoke off the record.
Answer Special Agent Webb informed me at a later date that he, Roy K. Moore of the Jackson Office of the FBI, and several others, immediately went from the Federal Court in New Orleans to the State Capitol of Louisiana at Baton Rouge and conferred with someone in the State Attorney General's Office who Mr. Webb stated was a former FBI agent.
and that they were able to get Mr. Beckwith charged in the state of Louisiana with possession of dynamite.
Special Agent Webb explained to me that the difference between the federal law and the state law was that it was necessary to, under federal law, to prove that Mr. Beckwith knew he had the dynamite in his possession when he crossed the state line from Mississippi to the state of Louisiana.
But under Louisiana law, they need only prove that he had the dynamite in his possession.
They did not have to prove that he knew he had the dynamite.
Thereafter, I overheard numerous comments by Roy K. Moore speaking of Mr. Beckwith, and he seemed to be pleased over getting Mr. Beckwith sent to the penitentiary for possession of the dynamite which Special Agent Webb had placed in his automobile.
However, Mr. Moore, I don't believe, ever forgave me for refusing to carry out one of his orders, as he was always obnoxious to me.
But it made little difference to me because he had never been pleasant to me from the first day that I arrived in the Jackson office of the FBI on January 23, 1970, as I was transferred to the Jackson, Mississippi office on a disciplinary transfer, which started as the result of me refusing to furnish a free motel room, a free bottle of scotch, free food from the room service,
And a female, which Harry Morgan, Special Agent in Charge of the Cincinnati Division, where I was at that time assigned, wanted and showed me a picture of one of my informants, who was an attractive female, which he wanted to spend the night with him in the motel room.
He, Mr. Morgan, was thereafter responsible for numerous allegations being made against me by certain members of the underworld in Ohio.
And I was investigated by an internal investigative team out of Washington, D.C., and I was completely exonerated of any allegation which was made against me.
However, when all the allegations were disproved, the inspectors who conducted the investigation summoned four additional aides to Cincinnati.
They went over all my records for the previous year with a fine-tooth comb and found that on occasion, when I wrote up a contact with an informant who furnished me valuable information, I did not say that it was at three o'clock in the morning at home, as I felt that was frivolous information.
And the fact that I had so much goods information on illegal activities, I did not think it necessary to put frivolous information in there that the conversation between my informant and me had been on the telephone at three o'clock in the morning, instead of having been a person-to-person contact.
For this I was charged with having irregularities in my records, placed on six months' probation, and ordered to report on a disciplinary transfer to the Jackson, Mississippi, Office of the FBI, which I later learned had been arranged by Roy K. Moore through Clyde Tolson, Assistant Director of the FBI at that time.
Mr. Moore took this action because Harry Morgan, special agent in charge of the Cincinnati office of the FBI, was a good friend of his, and Mr. Morgan had called Mr. Moore to inform him of the matter, which he felt the truth might come out and he would be fired for trying to get me to fix him up with a female companion.
Mr. Moore, Roy K. Moore, thereupon advised Mr. Morgan to not worry That he would contact Clyde Tolson and have Clyde to transfer me to Jackson, Mississippi, and he would get rid of my A.S.S.
when I got down there.
When I arrived in Jackson, Mississippi, on January 23, 1970, I was immediately summoned to Mr. Roy K. Moore's office, at which time Mr. Moore was very belligerent to me and told me that he had reviewed my personnel file and saw that I had always had to work nothing but the best of the good criminal cases but that he was going to assign me to the racial squad.
Mr. Moore then asked me what I thought of that.
I told him, Boss, I'll work any case you give me.
He then advised me that he was not assigning me a vehicle, but that in order to do my work, I was going to have to borrow a vehicle from another agent who was not going to be using his.
On or about a certain day in May of 1970—no, no, not—yeah, Roy K. Moore had summoned me to his office to tell me that he was mistaken about me, that I was not belligerent and anti-FBI like he was told that I was, and that he was going to have a car assigned to me, and he was also going to have me released from the status of probation.
I later learned from Mr. Jim Ingram, who was my supervisor at the time, That the reason Mr. Moore took the action of giving me an automobile and getting me off of probation was that he had learned that I was arresting more fugitives than all the other agents in the office combined.
Mr. Ingram stated the Jackson office was lucky to have me as I was the best qualified special agent that had ever been assigned to the Jackson office of the FBI.
That's about the end of it, unless you can think of something else.
OK.
Let me just ask you a couple of questions then.
You have your friend Burris Dunn.
Is he your friend, neighbor, or what?
Mr. Dunn, I didn't think I'd ever have an FBI agent as a friend.
Answer.
We're friends.
Question.
And he has assigned you to get up here To my office and explain for the record now why it was so difficult for you to get here and the status of your health at this time, which I think you had mentioned to me is why you wanted to set the record straight on some of this stuff.
Answer.
OK.
Let's start a new paragraph.
You want this in the same statement?
Question.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think.
Answer.
OK.
New paragraph.
OK.
Let's see.
Today is the 19th, isn't it?
Question.
18th of October.
Answer.
18th?
On this 18th of October, 1994, I was brought to the office of Chancery Court Judge.
What's your first name?
I don't even... Question.
Check.
And folks, we're out of time.
There's a lot more.
And what is coming is even more revealing than what you've already heard.
You think the FBI doesn't pull shady stuff, doesn't frame people, doesn't plant explosives, doesn't murder?
Well, you better think again.
And don't miss tomorrow night, because you're going to find out.
Good night, folks, and God bless you all.
I just want to do God's will.
He's allowed me to go into the house.
I've looked over.
I see the sunshine.
I may not get that well, but I want you to know tonight, I really have to speak to you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Put there by G-Man, he had to see where I was coming from.
Television news, makes me laugh right out loud.
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