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May 31, 1995 - Bill Cooper
55:57
Oklahoma Station Chief – Bombing
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Time Text
*Piano music* I know.
Thank you.
I'm William Cooper.
You're listening to the Hour of the Time.
I'm William Cooper.
Tonight, folks, we have a very special guest.
She is the Oklahoma Station Chief for the Intelligence Service.
She has conducted an investigation into the bombing of the Federal Building in Oklahoma City.
She has been here at the conference since the beginning.
She has presented over twelve hours of lecture time and various other things to our live audience here.
In fact, she began yesterday morning and didn't finish until today at noon.
So that's the degree of the material that she's presented here.
Unfortunately, we only have one hour of broadcast time, so we cannot duplicate what she presented to the people who attended the conference.
But we are going to have a short discussion, and then we're going to open the phones.
So that you and the listening audience will have a chance to speak to Michelle and ask her whatever questions you wish.
Now, I'm going to have to ask that you not make comments.
Time is short.
We have one hour.
When you call, please call, state your question, and then let Michelle answer it.
And then if you have one short follow-up question to her answer, you may give that and then go off the air and listen.
So if you'll stick to that format, everything will be fine.
If you bring up any other subject, or if you attempt to deviate, or if you want to give a lecture to Michelle, I'm very simply going to dump you right off the telephone, and then I'm going to set you down where you should have stayed.
So those are the ground rules, folks.
Don't go away.
We'll be right back.
We'll be right back.
Everybody knows that the murder's caught.
Everybody knows that the war is over.
Everybody knows that the good guy's lost.
Everybody knows that the fire's lit.
And we'll stay cool on the loose kid's wish.
That's how it's going to be the first.
Thank you.
Goodbye.
Goodbye. - No, it's all.
Everybody thinks that the doctor's mad.
Everybody thinks that the queen can be mean.
That the mama or the doctor's sad.
Everybody's hands are in their pockets.
Everybody wants a box of chocolates and a long test tube.
Everybody knows Everybody knows Michelle, welcome to the Hour of the Times.
Good evening, Bill.
You know, you really made quite an impression here over the last few days.
Well, thank you.
I need you to talk a little louder and directly into the mic.
All right.
During your investigation with your people in Oklahoma, you've generated in excess of probably I don't know how many videotapes, audio tapes, interview tapes, photographs, and what all, but I know that they fill to the top four pretty good sized boxes and more.
Yeah, there was a lot.
Probably about 150 hours of videotapes is my day.
And I had no estimate on the number of videotapes or interviews and photographs.
I'll quit counting after a while.
But I know we probably sent you close to 200 pounds of things in terms of weight, shipping weight.
Now, when you began, of course, as all investigators do, you didn't have any preconceived notions.
And you began to notice something right off the bat.
Can you tell us a little bit about the initial reports versus the reports that began to follow?
Again, compared to what we were observing locally and what we were hearing nationally?
That's correct.
Oh, well, completely different.
Totally different.
In the death count initially, about 6 o'clock in the evening on Wednesday the 19th, the official death count as released by the medical examiner was the 22 bodies, 17 of whom were children.
But at the national news that came at the top of the hour, they were reporting from Washington 81 dead, and I believe there were still 17 children, 17 and 19.
They were reporting 17 children dead and 81 adults dead, and what does that correlate to?
Well, I didn't understand at the time, but it does correlate to the number of victims in the Waco massacre, as if some secret code is being spoken to someone.
No one would understand that.
And these figures were not being released by any of the local authorities or by the coroner or the medical examiner on the sample.
Oh, absolutely not.
And in fact, when the local news broadcasters came on after that initial Washington report, They immediately made a disclaimer and said, well, we don't know where Washington is getting their figures.
It must be based on the fact that they've tried to telephone certain federal employees, and that's the number they can't reach, and all kinds of miscellaneous hogwash that had nothing to do with anything.
But the medical examiner specifically stated, nobody has the real numbers but me, and I'm the only one who's given them out.
And in light of the fact that what followed was an attempt to pin this bombing on patriots and militia members based upon anger over Waco, do you think it's a coincidence that they used the same figures of the casualties at Waco in the initial reports in the Communist News Network and others?
I don't think that anything that happened with this thomas is a coincidence.
At all.
What was the...
Let's go forward a little bit.
After you've had a couple of days to begin to look in and get your people together and really start digging, what jumped out at you during that period of time that made you realize that maybe things were not as they should be?
Well, the very first thing that caught my attention was the fact that on the first day there were 17 children dead, but by the very next day at dinner time they dropped that number to 12.
And we couldn't figure out how that had changed.
And then I was particularly interested in the discrepancies in the medical examiner's report between the type of injuries he was describing and the type of casualties that occurred and where the bomb was supposed to have been.
They weren't consistent at all.
And something else happened during this time.
The initial reports, how many explosions were reported initially by the local press?
Oh, gee.
Well, initially two.
Initially two.
People on the scene during the first hour, hour and a half, just almost universally reported two.
Two explosions.
And that disappeared rapidly.
And then shortly after that, you were able to obtain the seismographic record from the Energy Center at the University of Oklahoma, which also said... Two explosions.
Two explosions.
And Dr. Luzza, in fact, said not only to our people, but on the radio during that period of time, that there were two explosions.
And then Dr. Mankin says it even to today.
Yes.
Yes, he confirms it today and goes into even greater detail about Hart.
The second explosion couldn't have been an echo, couldn't have been a bounce back off the bedrock, couldn't have been the sound of the building falling down, primarily because there was absolutely no loss in amplitude or magnitude of the reading.
And by the way, folks, Veritas went to press today.
It is out.
It will be in the mail tomorrow to all of you.
Everyone here should have their copy.
If they don't, somebody please get them a copy of Veritas.
On the back page, you will find the seismographic record from the Energy Center at the University of Oklahoma at Norman of what they called the implosion of the building, which was not an implosion at all.
They were controlled, well-placed, Explosions designed to bring the building down in place so that it didn't damage any more property around it.
We were the first to get it.
As far as I know, we're the only ones that have it.
And as of right now, we're the only ones, certainly, who have published it.
You know, you've really accomplished quite a bit in a short period of time to have generated such an amount of evidence and reports and videotape.
Audio taped interviews and to have uncovered so much that literally blows the whole lid off of this thing and it is a cover up, isn't it?
Oh yeah, there's no doubt about that.
And we don't know exactly what they're covering up, but we know without any doubt whatsoever, ladies and gentlemen, that the United States government is covering up what really happened in Oklahoma City.
Well, of that there's no question.
There's no question about that at all.
What are some of the things that tell us this, Michelle?
The fact that the front of the building was blown outwardly 50 feet across the street into the front of the General Records building and then smashed down into the parking lot, this would not have occurred if you had a single truck bomb in the front of the building, which should have been blowing everything inwardly.
We have injury reports of people inside the building blown out into the street.
This wouldn't have occurred if we had a truck bomb inside, I mean, in the street.
We have peripheral damage all over the area that could not have occurred if we just had one truck bomb in the middle of the street.
And a truck bomb by itself, even if it was 5,000 pounds of ammonium nitrate and fuel oil, wouldn't have done what was done.
Plus, initially there were reports of two explosions.
Yes.
Many, many people, not just one or two or three or four, but many, many, many, many, many people reported hearing two explosions.
The local press reported hearing two explosions, which has now become one.
Right, and we're still collecting signed and notarized affidavits from witnesses, ear witnesses who've heard the two explosions.
Then we have the incredible mutating crater.
Tell us about the mutation of this crater.
This crater is a living thing, ladies and gentlemen.
It actually grows and mutates and changes shape and form and depth and width and length.
I like the mystical axel, too.
Yeah, well, the magical crater Initially it was reported to be 20 feet across, and then it was reported to be 20 feet deep, and the official story now is that it's 30 feet across and 8 feet deep, but it's been totally filled in, and during the search and rescue portion and the recovery portion of that whole thing, it had been completely covered over with plywood, so it's to anybody's guess.
During the initial video tape taken from Helicopter, which was shown on local TV and taped, and also some footage from national television, which I have viewed myself, the crater appears to actually have been about 12 feet in diameter, and from the air it's impossible to measure the depth because you don't have anything to compare the depth with, but it appears to be around 12 to 13 feet in circumference, or excuse me, not circumference, but diameter.
Well, yeah, it doesn't look that huge.
And if you look at the early footage, when they are shooting from the air, you can see the burning cars immediately across the street from it and kind of gauge the size of it off of that based on the number of cars, lengths that it would be.
You know, maybe, maybe not quite two car lengths across.
Okay, now since we only have one hour, and we've sort of touched on some of the things.
Now, you presented twelve hours of lecture evidence, step-by-step, how the investigation was conducted, what our findings were, which will eventually be published.
Some of it is in Veritas right now.
And we can't, certainly can't do that on the air.
So we've covered just enough to whet everybody's appetite.
Let's go to the phones.
And if you have a question for Michelle, remember she was the on-scene, in-charge, the station chief, in-charge of our investigation.
And this is your chance to ask some in-depth and pointed questions and get an answer from the only person in America right now.
I'm telling you this is the truth outside of the federal government who's not going to tell us who knows what really happened there.
Good evening, you're on the air.
Good evening, how are you?
Bill, this is Michael from Oklahoma.
I have a two-part question.
Okay.
The first part is, can you tell us about any possible residue that you have any knowledge of?
And you may have answered it in your preliminary statement.
Did I understand that you were able to get comparative seismographs when they brought the building down?
And I will call the phone.
Thank you.
Okay, Michael.
Yes, we have comparative seismographs from when they brought the building down.
The readings of the implosion look absolutely nothing like the explosions did, and Dr. Manson went into great detail in his explanation of the reading of the different patterns, and to someone trained in seismology, it's pretty obvious.
With regard to your first question and the residue, I personally don't have any evidence about residue, but I do have all of the different reports from the medical examiner.
And of course, for a long time, they were talking about finding little bits of blue plastic among the body and the body parts.
And allegedly, these little bits of blue plastic were supposed to be from the big barrels that were holding the ammonium nitrate and fertilizer.
You hear federal officials talk occasionally about finding residue on the scene, but I don't know that to be a fact, and I never heard it discussed further than one initial announcement.
All of the evidence that has been taken from the scene has been hauled off to a little military holding area.
You can't get within three-quarters of a mile of it, and it's being very carefully sifted through sifters and handled by the government, and I don't know what they're doing with it.
Nobody can get near it to look at it.
Ted Gunderson has communicated to me that there was no pelletized residue or any residue or evidence of a solid fertilizer of any kind.
No granules, no nothing.
And in that kind of a bomb, there would have been some that did not detonate, and there would be some evidence of that.
Now, it could be that ammonium nitrate that was used was in liquid form, because ammonium nitrate does also come in liquid form.
Whether or not it was, I don't know.
And whether it was, indeed, ammonium nitrate in the supposed truck, which is another point of contention.
Well, now, Bill, if it was liquid ammonium nitrate, that's inconsistent with what the press is telling us when they took the cameras into the big barn that they raided that was supposed to hold all of Terry Nickel's secret stash.
Those were all big sacks of solids.
That's correct.
Absolutely correct.
I thought I saw the phone ring.
For those of you who don't know what the number is, ladies and gentlemen, it's 520, and if you can't get through on 520, use 602.
They're in the process of changing the area code, so use 520.
If you can't get through, go back and use 602.
602-337-2922.
337-2922.
Good evening, you're on the air.
Yes, do you have any thought that the 10 second delay was a fortuitous for us, screw up on the part of the biomakers, or do you think the possibility that it was a deliberate delay?
I I think, alright this is going to be personal opinion here, okay, this is not based on fact.
My opinion is that it would have been delightful for the perpetrators of this event had everything gone off perfectly.
One with another, so it really was one big boom.
Somebody screwed up something somewhere.
The secondary detonation was late.
That's my opinion.
All right.
I've been toying around with the idea that it may have been a deliberate delay to aggravate those of us who are aware of the inconsistencies in the bombing.
No, I don't think so.
I think that they deliberately wanted to aggravate us.
They'd have a little bit smarter way to do it than that.
Yeah, for sure.
The number is 520-337-2922.
Make sure you keep hitting your reel dial button if you want to get in on this because it's the only chance you're going to get.
Good evening, you're on the air.
Yes, good evening Bill and Michelle.
I'd like to ask you in particular, Bill, based on your knowledge of explosives, what about that supposed axle from a truck that we were hearing was found two blocks from the bomb site?
Is that consistent, Bill, with your understanding of how these explosives work?
Could that axle have been actually thrown too far?
Well, they're saying that it was the rear axle.
If it was the rear axle, and if indeed it was the Ryder truck that they say it was, which it looks like there may not have been any Ryder truck in front of that building at all at any time, if the witnesses' stories are true, and specifically one UPS driver,
If it were the Ryder truck that they say that it was, and if it was indeed the rear axle, the rear axle would not have been found two blocks away, nor one block away, but would have been buried so far deep in the bottom of that crater that it would probably take weeks to pry it out of whatever it was embedded in.
No, it is not consistent at all, and Michelle has the real story on that At this point, ladies and gentlemen, during this broadcast, we experienced a power surge and the tape recorder shut off.
That is why the continuity of the program was interrupted.
we now continue where the new tape took out you who didn't make it to this conference made a big mistake So think about it next year, if there is one next year, and don't let anything stop you from getting here.
The scenery is beautiful, the sky is the clearest you will ever see anywhere, and the stars are magnificent at night.
I think Bill's got it taped in there now.
Now you can tell the actual story.
Okay, now I can tell the actual story.
I apologize.
That's fine.
Don't do that to me.
Extemporaneous is not my style.
Okay, according to the earliest newspaper reports, and this would have been on the morning of the 20th of April, the Daily Oklahoman reports and quotes Governor Frank Keating, former FBI big shot, as saying, I found the axle, which we believe to be from the truck bomb, and it was located two blocks away from the bomb site.
And you have to understand that all the evidence that they find, when they find any evidence, all these investigator guys run around with their orange spray paint and draw circles around everything.
All of the locations and all the pieces of evidence are catalogued so they know what it was they found, where they found it, when they found it, and so forth.
And somehow or other, between that first report and maybe one that followed a couple of days later, the mystical axle grew legs and walked in one whole block closer to the crime scene.
And they stopped saying that Governor Keating found it and simply said the FBI found it, which is in essence true since he's former FBI.
And then as the official story began mutating again, Governor Keating totally removed himself from the scene and stopped being so proud that he found this piece of evidence.
And now the official story is that Anne Axel was found a block away.
They just happened to have DIN numbers on it.
And Governor Keating is ex-FBI.
Yeah, oh yeah.
How strange.
Isn't this incredible?
Okay, good evening, you're on the air.
Hello?
Hello.
Can you hear me?
Yes, I can hear you.
Okay.
I was wondering if there was any truth in the story that a lot of agents in that building the morning of the blast called in sick.
Uh, if you're asking if there's any truth to the fact they called in sick, no, but there is some truth, apparently, with some people to this, but Michelle is the one who has, uh, what we know about it, and we don't know a whole lot.
Are you referring specifically to the, uh, employees in the ACF office?
Yeah.
Okay, what I know about that is this.
Uh, it was originally reported that there were 20 employees in the office, GSA records From the end of 94, reported 15 employees in the office.
We can only account for the whereabouts of 12.
Four of them were actually slightly injured in the blast, but basically walked away, and several of them were gone.
Three of them were allegedly in court in Ponca City, but we cannot find anyone who saw them there or can say that they were actually testifying in a court case.
We have two who were supposedly across the street in the federal courthouse, but we can't find anyone who saw them there.
We have the one agent who took the free fall in the elevator.
He just walked into the elevator when the bomb went off.
He did a free fall six stories to the ground and walked away from the scene.
We have one ATF agent who was just leaving the building and somehow or another he wasn't hurt in that event.
And the five people, there were actually five people in the building.
Two of them were, oh gosh, I just blanked out on the names.
Well, two of them were actual agents, two of them were investigators.
The two who were investigators were down the hall at the West End in the DEA office, and there was a fifth person there.
So there were many people out and about or coming in late or not there.
We can't account at all for the real number of total people in the ATF office.
And if you want to try to place people and verify who was there and who was not there and who can't be verified, you have to have an actual total, unless the piece of evidence we're missing right now.
But there were only five actually injured, and the rest of the folks were not there.
Also, you might want to know that the people who were involved in this, who wanted answers about where the ATF agents were since the media was reporting that the explosion of the building was a result of the Waco incident, were told who wanted answers about where the ATF agents were since the media was reporting that the explosion of the building was a result of the Waco incident, were told
And at least one family that we know of has been just outright, they told us that they are afraid to talk about their attempts to find out where the BATF agents were.
Yeah, their official stance is that they're very tired and they've endured a lot and there are people stronger and with better capabilities to carry on.
And so their official stance is they're backing off.
And the reason they did is self-preservation.
Good evening, how may I help you?
Dr. Bell, this is Chris.
I was just asking if there's a way I can have possible questions because... Chris, you either got a bad line or something because we can barely hear you.
Can you hear me better now?
Yes.
I have a lot of questions if you don't mind me asking.
No.
Stick to the format.
You get one question, one answer, and one follow-up.
All short.
Okay.
Is there any truth to the rumors that the material after the bombing was taken to a military base and no one was allowed to examine it?
That is true.
No one is being allowed to examine it.
It has been taken to a military base.
Uh huh.
What military base?
I don't have the slightest idea.
It was on the news and I don't remember which one it said.
Oh it was on national news maybe?
No it was on local news.
We have it on video tape here at the research center but I tell you the number of details to keep straight in my head is a little overwhelming and that's one of the ones I don't want straight in my head right now.
Okay well I'll check it out with the Associated Press and get back to you Bill.
I'm sure they have that information for you.
Okay I'll get back to you Bill if I can find out any more information on this.
Thank you.
I had no idea it was in the national news though.
Okay thank you.
She didn't say it was in the national news.
She said it was in the local news, and we have it on videotape here in the Research Center.
Listen carefully to her answers, folks.
Don't go off and say she said something that she didn't.
I know a lot of you are going to be posting what you think you hear during this broadcast on the Internet and computer bulletin boards and all kinds of stuff, and it's like your accuracy that I've seen on those things before.
Don't do it unless you can accurately quote what Michelle says.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Hello, Bill.
Hello, Michelle.
My question is, have any attempts been made, or has it been successful, to talk to any of the local firefighters or rescue workers who went into that building who apparently, reportedly saw other explosives in the building?
The only ones who have talked to us prefer to remain anonymous.
They reported that when the area was cleared and a second bomb was reported, that explosive... What do you call these guys?
Explosive... Explosive boys?
Not the guys that disarm these things.
Whatever they are.
Bomb squad.
bomb squad or whatever they are, came in and brought a bomb disposal truck.
But these were not local Oklahoma City bomb disposal people.
These were federal bomb disposal people, from what I understand.
There was a local Oklahoma City bomb disposal truck brought in to the area, and they report that it was not just one bomb but several bombs, and that they were approximately five-gallon cans in the military green color, and that they were approximately five-gallon cans in the military green color, the OG olive drab green color with mil spec and contract numbers on them, of fulminate
They said that there were holes in the lids of these cans, and there was something in these holes which they assumed were detonators, but they were not explosives experts.
These people were firemen.
And they also say, and this was reported on the news, on television, and in the press, that there were plastic explosives found that had not been detonated, and that there was a rocket launcher and military ammunition for that rocket launcher found on the scene. and that there was a rocket launcher and military ammunition Yeah, something else you're calling me to understand with regard to interviewing the firefighters is that the heat is on in the Oklahoma City area right now.
If you really value your life or your family, you just kind of keep your own counsel and Also, the firefighters and rescue workers who were so busy on the scene were debriefed daily.
And because of the horror of what they observed, or perhaps because of the truth of what they observed, they received this continual, ongoing counseling.
I do not know what this is comprised of or what is trying to be achieved.
I know a lot of people have suffered a lot of post-traumatic stress because of being a participant in this.
But you really can't get any heart-to-heart interviews with the firefighters yet.
The day will come that we'll be able to do that, and we will, but it isn't right now.
It's just a little bit too hot.
Michelle, my follow-up question.
You mentioned post-traumatic stress there.
Yes, sir.
Has there been any report of any mysterious deaths among any of those rescue workers?
Not that I know of.
At the time of the incident, there was only one who suffered a back injury, and I think that he was one of the Phoenix rescue guys.
But I don't personally know of any of the firefighters who have mysteriously died in the past six weeks.
Now, there was a woman rescued.
She was a nurse.
Yes, she was a nurse.
That was Rebecca Anderson, and she was a volunteer nurse who ran in on the scene the moment that it occurred.
she worked throughout most of the day suffered a head injury the cause of which we do not know collapsed in the street went into a coma and died shortly before the big Sunday memorial service occurred that the president attended Michelle and Bill have done a tremendous service to the country in helping to get this information out and I thank you for the wonderful work you've done you're welcome thank you for those kind words
thank you for the wonderful work you've done
thank you for the wonderful work you've done
thank you for the wonderful work you've done and I'm going to be here for the wonderful work you've done and I'm going to be here for the wonderful work you've done These are people who care enough to sponsor the most controversial radio broadcast in the world.
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Aren't you feeling bad that you're not a member of our team?
You see, our women are better than most men of any other organization, and Michelle certainly Yes, Bill.
I've just got a few questions and I'll get off and listen to the answers, okay?
is indicative of the quality of all of our station chiefs and an awful lot of the people who work with them.
Edmund, you're on the air.
Yes, Bill.
I've just got a few questions, and I'll get off and listen to the answers, okay?
Mm-hmm.
Okay, the night after the bombing, I believe I tuned in, and he said that it was, he believed it was, the pulmonary mercury was a bomb.
No, I didn't say I believed that.
I said we had two reports from firemen and one report from one of the fireman's fathers who reiterated that his son had reported the same things to him.
And then the second question would be, if it was mercury falling, would there be traces that they could pick out?
Would people be inhaling mercury fumes or anything from this blast?
That I have no idea.
The cans that they found did not detonate, so we don't know if there were any cans that did detonate.
It appears that if this is true, that that string of explosives did not detonate for some reason, and there could be many explanations for that.
Okay.
One more quick question.
Did the ATF have the area cleared out for an hour or so and left people there crying, hollering for help and things like that, like I had heard on some reports?
Michelle?
I don't know if it was the ATF.
But about 10, 30 in the morning after the initial explosion, they did yell, bomb, and found the second explosive.
And they did send all the press away, about five, between five and seven blocks.
All the firefighters, rescue workers were pulled off the scene.
The reports said that they could hear people moaning, groaning, crying, and screaming under the rubble, and they could not get to them.
The people that they were in the process of rescuing at the time, they had to abandon and did not get back to them for some time.
And some of them they went back to were dead.
Okay, well thank you very much.
I appreciate the work you're both doing.
You're welcome.
We also have reports that during this time that the rescuers were not allowed to rescue anyone, and we're not allowed near the building in fact, that there were government people going around picking things up, picking up pieces of paper, picking things up.
Nobody really knew what they were picking up.
But if they could walk around and pick things up, my question is why couldn't rescuers go in there and pick people up?
Your guess is as good as mine.
I know it.
The number, folks, is 520-337-2922.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Josh, Mr. Cooper.
Yes.
Josh, I don't know.
What's the chances of that building was blown up from the air?
I can't answer that.
I don't know.
I don't believe that it was.
And I'll tell you why.
The steel-reinforced concrete main support members in the building, and this is all explained by Brigadier General Partin in the front page story of this issue of Veritas, were sheared off at ground level, which is not in any way indicative of any type of outside explosion that would have been detonated in a truck or a car or a hay wagon or anything else.
It is more indicative of charges that were placed actually at the base of the columns.
Steel-reinforced concrete is a hard target, which has to be specifically targeted, and any military explosives expert who is assigned the job of taking out specific targets from the air or from the ground will tell you that.
Right.
Those columns collapsed essentially vertically, straight down, and that wouldn't have been the evidence you would have seen at all if it had been an air attack.
Thank you.
You guys are doing a good job.
You're welcome.
Have a nice night.
Thank you for calling.
520-337-2922.
Get in here when you get a chance, folks, because you're not going to hear from Michelle again for a while.
Good evening, you're on the air.
Good evening, you're on the air.
Yeah, hi Bill, Michelle.
Very, very good work you're doing there.
Can I ask you a question about how fast the FEMA groups were around the perimeter?
That's a good question.
Michelle, do you have the answer for that?
I'll just hang up and listen.
Well, wait, wait.
Let me ask you a question.
Oh, okay.
Specifically FEMA?
Well, any ones that were called were the military or the whole group of them were helped out.
They were all there to have the building, etc., surrounded.
It was kind of a series of events.
Within one hour, the exits from I-35, I-40, and I-235 were sealed.
Those were being guarded by Highway Patrol at the time.
During that initial hour and a half, all kinds of military, paramedics, and so forth, personnel were coming into the area.
I don't think we had the FEMA teams in.
I know Buddy Young didn't show up until much later in the day.
As far as FEMA is concerned, my guess would be that they weren't there until around supper time.
I can't confirm that.
But we sure had police and the National Guard was out by noon.
Yeah, that's what I was mainly interested in, how fast the military was there.
Okay, thank you.
They were there within three hours.
Okay, thank you.
Not only that, but some strange things were brought into Oklahoma City.
Do you feel like talking about that?
The cannon?
Those came into Norman.
They came into Norman?
Mm-hmm.
Do you know if that was just coincidental, or was that as a result of this blast?
I'm sure it was as a result of this blast.
I've been driving by that National Guard Army for 20 years.
They've never had any armaments there of any kind.
And what did they bring in?
Sixteen cannons, a great big old, well I'm not a gun person, I hope you can tell you exactly what they were, and of course we have pictures of them back there in the press room.
That's correct, we do have pictures.
Why I was interested in, because when I lived here in Texas, there was, on the Monday, there was about nine military trucks loaded with the canvas top pulling a little trailer on the back that went by from where I was standing, and that was in the afternoon.
That was Monday the 17th, so I was just wondering.
Interesting.
Well, to the best of my knowledge, the armaments didn't come in with the National Guard until the day of the explosion into the Oklahoma City area.
Okay.
Thank you very much.
Yes, ma'am.
Thank you for calling.
520-337-2922.
If you're persistent and keep hitting your redial button, you just may be one of the lucky ones to get to talk to Michelle.
Good evening, Romeo.
Hi there, Bill.
Hello.
I've been listening a long while.
I'm really interested in Veritas and other information.
My question about this is for you.
It seems that someone told me that there was something going on militarily near Oklahoma City, something to do with concentration camps, something along that line, FEMA activity, and it was getting pretty intense.
I wondered if there was maybe some correlation between the events.
I don't know anything about what you're talking about.
The only thing that I know of that could even be remotely or close to what you may be talking about is the Federal Transfer Center.
The Federal what?
Will you please let me finish?
Okay.
The Federal Transfer Center near Will Rogers Airport.
Okay, and what is the point of that phrase?
Well, according to the government, and that's the only thing that we can go on, it is a central hub for transferring federal prisoners from local courthouses, whether found guilty, or from prisons, whether being transferred to another prison.
And it supposedly saves the government a lot of money.
Uh, instead of flying a whole bunch of planes all over the country, they just fly a few on regular schedules and they go in and out of this hub facility.
Okay.
And all I really know with regard to the Federal Transfer Center and the bombing is that the construction and the official opening of it was all completed about a month prior.
Ah, right.
Okay.
And the other thing is, uh, because of McKay characters, uh, and not in the Plains of Michigan where I'm from here, but, uh, It seems like all I've been hearing is the guy's been saying name, rank, and serial number, so like, what, is he one of them, and he's their dupe, their fall guy?
I have no idea.
He hasn't said a word to me, and nobody will let me talk to him.
Yeah, I just bet no one will get to talk to him.
He's incommunicado for all intents and purposes, and you're not likely to hear anything from him at all, even during the trial.
I've heard MK stories about him in my chat, but Well, if you can't document them, don't tell them.
Right.
Conjecture, right.
Okay, thank you.
You're welcome.
Thank you.
Also, folks, understand that nobody knows what Mr. McVeigh is saying, or how much he is saying, or whether he is not saying, or whatever he might be saying consists of, and you cannot believe what the press prints.
And if you don't know that by now, then you shouldn't be listening to this broadcast if you haven't learned that in the last six weeks.
And you certainly can't depend upon the government to tell us the truth.
And, of course, his lawyer has stated that he's not anything like what the press has portrayed him to be.
And the people in Kingman, Arizona, who knew him, say that he's not anything like what the press portrayed him to be.
And his lawyer says he's a very intelligent, very nice young man.
So, you know, go fish.
That's all I know.
Yes, I have a question regarding the children.
Like when I was looking at the news, I saw them parading the children around that were being rescued with head injuries and so on.
Apparently, it didn't really look like they were really hurt, but if they were hurt, why would they be paraded around in front of the cameras with head injuries like that?
Sir, sir, I don't think that you understand the nature of their injuries or the nature of the explosions.
The entire structure of the federal building is glass, concrete, steel, and aluminum.
And when the bomb went off, the majority of the injuries were caused by flying shards of glass.
These kids were cut up.
And it seemed that they were being paraded around in front of the camera.
It may be because that particular camera guy just happened to have a good camera opportunity, and that's why you saw that.
I don't believe there was anything deliberate at that moment.
It was too chaotic and full of panic at the time for them to have really deliberately done that.
if there's something deliberate in it in my opinion it would be the continual replaying over and over and over of that and what a horrible trauma that must have been for the parents of the children who died thank you yes and thank you for calling well Numbers 520-337-2922.
I think what they were filming were the mothers who were given their children, who were not hurt bad enough to have been taken to the trauma center, and the mothers hurrying their children away from the scene.
I believe that's what I saw, and I can't tell you that for sure, because what I saw wasn't really adequately explained, but that's my interpretation of probably what you're describing also.
The number, folks, is 520-337-2922.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Hi, Bill.
I'm Michelle.
I just want to know that on the day of the bombing, the FBI was supposed to be pumping some kind of gas into the building for six hours.
What?
That's what I heard.
What did you hear now?
That the FBI pumped some kind of gas into the building for six hours to where the bombing occurred.
I don't know if there's any truth to that.
No.
I don't believe there's any truth to that at all.
And if there was, I think almost everybody downtown would know about it.
Yeah.
I heard it on some kind of internet.
Or some kind of internet?
Yeah.
Oh, God.
Where do they come from?
I'll bet you he had wings and a tail.
Want to bet?
520-337-2922 is the number.
Geez.
Let's just go home.
Good evening, here on the air.
Good evening, Bill.
This should be a better question, I hope.
I thought it interesting, and maybe it's an anomaly, maybe it's one of those curious things, but the Governor's past experience in law enforcement.
How has he handled situations?
Does he appear in any way complicit?
Michelle?
Do I think he's compromised in any way?
Yes, ma'am.
Yes, I think he's compromised up to his ears.
And I thought, Bill, what about this lawyer?
I saw his expose on Nightline shaking hands with Nelson Rockefeller.
Yeah.
Yeah, the dude's also compromised.
Yeah.
I don't think we're going to get the straight story here.
Everything about this thing stinks.
I mean, it stinks to high heaven.
It's almost an exact duplicate of what happened at the World Trade Center, right down to the Ryder truck, right down to finding the rear axle, right down to making one phone call and having the truck identified from the exact place where it was rented, just from a number off a supposed rear axle of this Ryder truck.
The man who owns Rider rental trucks is a member of the Trilateral Commission and the Council on Foreign Relations, and the government has huge, gigantic contracts with Rider trucks.
In fact, after the area was closed off, if you looked at the videotapes carefully, you'd see that the government was using rider trucks to help them in the rescue and all that other kind of thing.
Yeah, and with regard to the attorneys involved in this case, of course, Stephen Jones is definitely in the Rockefeller pocket and has been involved in a lot of nasty politics in the Nixon administration for years and years and years, and then you've got Tigar, who's defending Terry Nichols and Of course, he's defended every communist since Angela Davis to the present time, so, you know, go figure.
Doesn't look too good, does it?
It certainly doesn't.
Please don't stop us.
I mean, I don't know how we're going to get this out to the public, but it's certainly... If you've watched CNN at all, they've shut down.
They don't even talk about this anymore.
Let me tell you something, sir.
When we pulled a particular piece of evidence out of the records we'd collected, I decided on my own initiative that the time had come to Make sure that every defense team lawyer had every piece of evidence that we had because, in my opinion, there was something going on that wasn't right and the obvious... Well, I'll say that the people that actually did it weren't even being accused.
So, every single defense team lawyer, every local TV network person in the Oklahoma City area, and every local radio person in the Oklahoma City area Now has copies of everything that we have.
Now you figure out why they're not talking about it.
Why they're not doing anything about it.
Nobody is saying a word.
And it's not because they don't know.
And it's not because they can't confirm our evidence.
Everything we gave them, we didn't give them anything that wasn't confirmable.
So you just have to draw your own conclusions about what's happening here.
I've drawn mine and I just want to hear more and more of this information.
Thanks Bill.
You're welcome, and you will.
We're dedicated to informing and waking up the American people, no matter how long it takes and no matter what risk it imposes upon us.
Everybody who is a member of the Intelligence Service is under oath to protect and defend the Constitution of their state and the Constitution for the United States of America.
And they have pledged their lives, their fortunes, and their sacred honor.
In pursuit of those goals.
And they will not stop.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Oh, good evening.
This is Gene in Houston.
I don't know if this has any correlation or not.
I'd like those comments on it.
I found out about the explosion from listening to the police scanner down here in Houston.
A dispatcher came on and informed, you know, the guy up in the B, that the CIC computer was down because of the explosion in Oklahoma City.
Well, I can't comment because I'm not sure I know exactly what you're talking about and I have not heard this before.
Do you have that conversation on tape?
Are you still there?
there or not.
I'm not sure if they're going to knock out communications with something like this.
That's something to think about, I guess.
But I'd like to comment on it, if I could, please.
Thank you.
Well, I can't comment because I'm not sure I know exactly what you're talking about, and I have not heard this before.
Because we had that conversation on tape.
Do you have that conversation on tape?
Are you still there?
He's gone.
Call back, Houston.
Call back tomorrow sometime during the day.
If you've got it on tape, mail it to the Research Center immediately.
Okay.
520-337-2922.
We have time for maybe two more calls.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Hi, Bill.
Seth from Boston.
Where exactly was the crater located?
I can't get a real answer to that.
Do you get Veritas?
Yes.
The location of the crater is on the front page?
No.
Along with all of the columns that were downed and the explanation from General Parton of exactly what he believes happened.
Okay, is this a drawing or is this an actual photograph showing the crater?
No, this is a drawing.
There is no way to get in there and I have not seen any photographs that show the crater.
The only thing that we have where you can see the crater are the initial That's interesting because I have one front page news photograph that shows something that looks like a crater and nothing from AT ever showed anything of that same area.
It looks like they're all retouched.
So this gets even more interesting now.
Well, whatever you have, if you would like to help us, we would like for you to send that to us because we have not seen that.
What paper was it in?
It was either in the Boston Herald or the Boston Globe, and it wasn't tagged AP, the one that shows what looks like the crater.
If you could send that to us and identify exactly what paper and what date and what page.
Yeah, that I can do.
I just don't have it in front of me at the moment.
Okay, thank you.
Thanks.
520-337-2922 is the number.
And we've only got time for one call there.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
All right.
Yeah.
The one thing I just, I haven't heard anything about, and I was wondering if, does anybody know if there were any Waco documents in that federal building whatsoever, or any other documents, I guess?
The only thing I've heard about that is rumor and speculation.
I know that there were over 100,000 square feet of storage, and most of the storage space in the building was below ground level, on the same level as the parking garage area.
But as to the truth that any of those documents may have been Waco related or anything else related, such as Arkansas investigations, I don't know.
Would that have been the closest federal building to Waco, Texas?
I do not know that either.
I kind of doubt it.
Is Dallas a little bit closer than Oklahoma?
I doubt it an awful lot.
Okay, that was my question.
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
Thank you, Michelle, for being such a wonderful guest and for all that you've done here.
Good night, everybody, and God bless you all.
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