All Episodes
Previous Next
Aug. 25, 1993 - Bill Cooper
59:37
Brad Steiger Interview
| Copy link to current segment

Time Text
Night's hour of the hour.
The easiest hour of all time.
Night's hour for the earthlings.
Adorned by the existence of fire.
Fire!
Fire!
I'm not going to be a spy.
Across America and around the world, once again, you're listening to the Hour of the Time.
I'm William Cooper, and tonight, ladies and gentlemen, we have as a very special guest
a man who has investigated just about every possible aspect of the paranormal, the occult,
all of the mysteries of the world, and has written an awful, awful lot of books on all
of these subjects.
So, stay tuned.
You're not going to miss, you're not going to want to miss, one single moment of tonight's episode of the Hour of the Time.
Ah, thank you.
I've been sitting there for centuries.
Yes, I suppose it seems.
Why, it's just raining, but you're not wet.
No, I'm not, am I?
Uh, where are you coming from?
I was watching a wonderfully terrifying novel feature movie.
I was a teenage Frankenstein in blood of Dracula.
Oh?
Professor Frankenstein created a teenage monster to bring hallucinatory terror to all who meet him.
But he left a few parts out, particularly in the poor lad's face.
May we change the subject?
I am in blood of Dracula.
Quite unfriendly, except when hungry, than any friend will do for a few ghastly moments.
Please, I... Oh, here's where I must leave you.
But there's nothing here but an old cemetery.
Yes, I know.
I want to meet some old friends here.
After you see I was a teenage Frankenstein in Blood of Dracula, you might drop back here.
We'll discuss the pictures of some lake.
Yes, yes I do.
I do.
I do.
¡I didn't really think it through Nor did I mean not to mention it, sorry!
I had to pass, until the very gate.
The car was locked, and the moon was bright.
It was a very, very cold, cold night.
I never thought I'd be this much in line to hear a poor soul do it, but this has shown.
This is a job that ain't at all easy.
I've got them coming, the best and strong And I believe in God enough to keep strong
I'll do it, I'll do it, the best and strong I'll do it, I'll do it, the best and strong
Well, that's a fitting opening for the discussion of tonight's subjects and also tonight's guest.
But before I introduce our guests, I want to tell you that you won't be able to call in tonight because we only have one call-in line, and our guest is on that line.
Number two, WWCR called me just before we went on the air and said they have three-phase power going to the transmitter, and they have lost one of the phases to this transmitter, and they are working feverishly trying to get WWCR back up.
So, don't panic.
The electricians are doing their job, and hopefully you'll get to hear at least a portion of this program on shortwave, those of you who can't hear me telling you this because you do listen to shortwave and it's off the air.
Brad Steiger, welcome to the Hour of the Times.
Thanks, Bill.
Great to be here with you.
Well, it's been quite a while since we've had a chance to talk.
What are you doing with yourself nowadays?
Well, more of the same.
I've been doing a lot of lecturing, traveling, working on some books, and just kind of staying in the swing of things here.
A lot of exciting things happening, and as you know, it's pretty hard to keep track of all of them the way things are multiplying here.
That's true.
I hear you're working on a new book.
Yeah, working on one that I know you will be especially interested in.
Of course, it quotes you in a number of places, so that ought to be true.
It's called, Bill, Our Captive Planet.
Oh, that sounds interesting.
And it explores the whole aspect of the UFO from several perspectives.
Are we talking about aliens?
Are we talking about a secret society?
Are we talking about aliens and a secret shadow government?
Are we talking about all three?
Or maybe more.
Exploring and just what is going on in terms of the various theories and so forth that we hear and how which ones probably have more validity than others or presenting them so the reader can make up his or her own mind.
Well, I'm sure glad that you're doing it in that kind of format with that approach, because so many people don't look at objectively, especially when they're writing about the UFO phenomenon.
Oh, yeah.
It's either the Benevolent Space Brothers are here to save us from ourselves, or they're here to eat us, therefore we must all band together in one world government to protect ourselves from them.
Well, as you and I have talked, Bill, you know, there's so many aspects to this phenomenon.
There are.
And as I've heard you say, you'll make a very strong statement in your lectures, and then you'll say, of course, if you can prove me wrong, do it.
Or, I may be wrong.
To me, that's always been the approach of the journalist.
This is what makes sense to me, but it might not make complete sense to you, and we can still be friends if it doesn't, but, you know, let's at least think.
Let's at least explore and see what's going on, because something is certainly going on.
That's right, and we can't afford to ignore it, because it could be one of the greatest manipulations of all time, and, of course, if extraterrestrials are real and they're visiting It certainly would turn out to be the most significant event in the history of the human race.
Now, you've investigated, as I said right before the music there, you've investigated just about everything there is to do with the paranormal.
Well, I think so.
I'm intrigued by all of it.
And, of course, it's very interesting to me.
You know, some people think of me strictly as a ufologist.
Some people think of me as working strictly with Native American shaman.
Other people think of me as working with astral projection or with past lives.
And in truth, I've been intrigued by all aspects of the paranormal.
And again, trying to take the journalist's... Again, I can't say at this point, you know, I'm totally unbiased because I think an unbiased book gets kind of lumpy and vanilla pudding-ish too, you know.
But at least presenting a point of view, but not in a dogmatic way.
So that's the approach in all the things, whether it's exploring haunted houses or UFOs.
Uh-huh.
Well, you know, I agree with you.
There is no such thing as an unbiased book or an unbiased viewpoint.
Anybody who says they're totally unbiased, as far as I'm concerned, is not telling you the truth.
Well, I get annoyed when people say that, even when scientists say that.
Because, you know, if you undertake a scientific formula or a scientific experiment, you must have some goal in mind.
You can't just be mixing things together.
I think anyone who follows any type of intellectual pursuit has some goal or some aspect or some thesis that he would like to demonstrate at least.
Sure.
What do you think the most interesting phenomenon or event or occurrence or freak of nature or whatever that you've ever investigated, what was the most interesting and intriguing to you?
I'm not good at questions like that because as I said Bill, all of this is so intriguing to me.
I suppose, and I speak for my wife Sherry here too, I think one aspect that to us ties it all together is probably the UFO phenomenon tied together with the question of who we really are.
What truly are our origins?
And I think these are things that we really have to get in place before, and I'm not at all now, sometimes I say this, people think I'm knocking the space program, I'm not.
But what I'm saying is, before we go tracing out into space and quote unquote conquering new worlds, I think we really need to know who we are, what our true identity is, and what our responsibility is to the universe.
Well, I think we're tampering with an awful lot of things that we don't have any business tampering with, specifically, since we don't have any way of controlling the use of a lot of these things, such as getting into genetic tampering with the creation of new life forms and tampering with... But that's really dangerous, isn't it?
Boy, isn't it?
Especially since the history of the world shows that there have been Men and groups of men who band together to create the perfect super race.
I mean, what does that mean in the light of the ability to literally do that?
Well, what that means is someone is deciding who the super man is, and I think you and I are really nifty guys, Bill, but maybe someone won't think we fit that categorization, and we're out.
We don't get to be included.
That's right.
And I think we should all have a vote, you know, in this society, and I think we all need to have a voice in deciding what avenues and positions our governments take, because, I don't know, I guess I'm kind of old-fashioned that way, but it does say government by the people, and we is the people.
That's correct.
The whole purpose of the Hour of the Time, and I don't think that you've heard the show before, But the whole purpose of the Hour of the Time is to wake the sheeple, the people that are really asleep out there and don't understand that there's things in the world happening that they need to pay attention to, and that what they perceive the world as being is really not the way it really is, and try to empower them once they've awakened and try to save
To me, the penultimate achievement of all mankind, which is the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, the only document ever penned by the hand and mind of man that ever set man free.
And I think that is so important, and at the same time, I admonish my audience not to believe what I say, or what you say, or President Clinton says, or Dan Rather, or Tom Valentine, or Ted Koppel, or even their own mother.
But learn to investigate and research and think for themselves so that they can be their own leaders.
That's what real empowerment is.
Yes, well I think that's a noble goal, Bill, and I certainly can speak up and cast my vote that when it comes to waking Well, thank you.
You've done a little bit yourself.
You know, you don't agree with everything I say or do.
In fact, a lot of people out there will agree with everything I say or do, and I certainly don't agree with everything that you say or do.
But one thing that makes you and I unique, and maybe James Mosley and a few other people that I can name, is that we can sit down, and even with our differences, we can have an intelligent discussion.
Exactly.
And not get angry with each other.
I've never been able to handle that.
Bill, I don't play cards.
There are very few games that I indulge in at all, because as a small boy, when I would see people pick up and lose it over Monopoly set or whatever, I think, you know, I've never been able to understand it.
With my own children, I said from the beginning, I will never argue, but we will discuss things.
And I say that to people today.
I'll discuss things till my tongue can no longer quiver in my jaws.
But I'm not going to argue with you.
When you argue that simply entrenches each other's position on the firmament.
And nothing happens.
But with discussion, oh I love discussion.
And as you say, Bill, we might not agree on everything, but we've had some dandy discussions through the wee hours.
I wish everyone could do that, because to me, a conversation or a dialogue is an exchange of ideas.
Exactly.
And only insecure people have to win the dialogue.
And they don't come away learning anything from it.
Well, what we're doing is expressing our opinions.
I have definite opinions, but they change, and I really want to hold that right.
I began in UFO research.
First of all, I came from the area of psychical research, basically exploring the mind.
My first take on UFOs was that it was kind of a nutty subject that some people got carried away with.
and there probably wasn't a whole lot of truth to it.
Then I began to explore it really openly with my first book, Strangers in the Skies.
And again, the timing was perfect there.
That came out the very week that Dr. J. Allen Heineck said the Michigan sightings were swamp gas.
So everything was in the news.
And that book sold, oh, it got on the bestseller list like within three weeks and sold out.
So I thought, well, I guess I was right there.
People do take this subject very seriously.
So from that time on, from 1966 on, I have made a very serious study of the UFO phenomena.
At that time, the prevailing attitude was nuts and bolts.
They were machines of outer space.
They may not have anybody inside them, but they were clanky machines of outer space.
They were space probes.
Again, as I examined the evidence at that time, it seemed like we're dealing with a paraphysical phenomenon.
Or, it occurred to me, because I, like yourself, I had always been intrigued by the secret societies, the occult societies, the societies of which Hitler and other people remember.
And I thought, again, as I know you put out, Bill, that this could be a hoax by some terrestrially based society that has great power, has great strength.
And I was fascinated, and I bet you were too, when the James Bond series came out.
Oh, yes.
When he wrote it about Shmers, this incredible secret kind of society that did its own thing, had its own rules, had its own armies, had its own tower, had its own many.
And basically could do anything.
You remember there, they capture astronauts, they capture our submarines.
Now this is SMERSH, a terrestrial organization.
And again, I thought that might be Ian Fleming's way of telling us things about what is really going on.
So that certainly was on the aspect, and then I think there's still the mental aspect, the psychic aspect, the psychological aspect, and even the spiritual aspect of UFOs.
I think the whole phenomena Tells us a lot about who we really are as a people, as a species, if you will.
Well, I've certainly found that there's a definite connection between UFOs and what contactees are told, and even the names of some of these supposed aliens who contact people, and the ancient gods of the mysteries.
That's right!
And since the mysteries are still practiced today in Central America, this intrigues me even more.
Oh, very much so.
That's right, I remember we did have a discussion about that late one night in Hawaii, I think.
We had both kind of stumbled on that, about the ancient gods that seem to be popping up
again in the contact team reports.
Even though these people, I don't doubt for one minute when they tell me in all sincerity
if I make an illusion, they don't know what I'm talking about.
And I believe them, because I don't think that many people are familiar with the mystery
schools in our society.
That's true.
Well, you'll find that the listeners to this program are, because I've done approximately 28 hours, just the mystery schools, starting from the dawn of man right up to the present day.
So, they know what we're talking about.
They know what we're talking about.
Well, I think I'm still correct in my assessment of the general population.
Oh yes, without any doubt.
What is your assessment of the government's role in this?
When they say that they don't know anything about UFOs or extraterrestrials, do you think they're telling the truth?
Well, again, I'm going to fall back on something I've said many times.
The government isn't just one person.
I've been asked since the beginning, what does the Air Force say about this?
And as a little boy, I was asked, well, what does the minister say about this?
It seems like too many people are so easily led to relegate their thinking to somebody else.
And they also seem to anthropomorphize a group into one person.
As if the Air Force, you know, is one bird colonel, and that's all we're dealing with.
As if the government is one tax collector, and that's all we're dealing with.
We're dealing with many, many people, so what I have found in my research in the last 30 years is that within the government, within the Air Force, within the military, I've had some of my greatest allies.
Some of my greatest allies, for example, were fighter pilots in Korea who, there they were in those big new jets.
They were sweeping over the Yalu River.
They were God's gifts to women and apple pie.
And there they were flying this machine on the cutting edge of technology.
And all of a sudden, here comes this object that just makes them look like they're still on their tricycles.
And some people have had a vendetta.
Some pilots have had a vendetta against the UFO for making them look like monkeys ever since then.
Again, within the military, within the law enforcement agencies.
I can say that I've had members of the different law enforcement agencies save my life on certain occasions.
But then I know there are others who probably regard me as somewhere south of insane, or as a rabble rouser, or as a troublemaker, or as a kook.
So again, people's opinions, I guess when you reach a certain age, I'm at the point now where I'm simply doing the work, simply putting the ideas out.
I don't have that youthful compulsion anymore that everyone agrees with me or that I win every argument as we were discussing earlier.
So certainly I think there are aspects of the government Well, you may be right.
My experience tells me that those who talk to the public are probably telling the truth when they say they don't know anything.
And the government doesn't know anything because that's what they've been told.
and who are just as eager to solve this mystery as you and I are, Bill.
Well, you may be right.
My experience tells me that those who talk to the public are probably telling the truth
when they say they don't know anything.
And the government doesn't know anything because that's what they've been told.
And they don't have access to anything because they're usually public relations officers.
And they say what they're told to say.
And when they say it, they believe it.
And so they come off as being believable.
But when you get behind the scenes, as you discuss and talk to pilots and people who are involved in these things, you begin to see a different story and a different pattern begins to emerge.
I guess I think so often, and I don't want to get into politics because I'm basically apolitical.
I'm an independent.
I don't vote a party, I try to look at the person, but I admired Adlai Stevenson as a
human being, so I'm not going to talk about the fact he was a Democrat or whatever.
But I still remember this dignified gentleman when he sat in the U.N. and denied with all
of his heart and spirit that Gary Powers and the U2 was taking place.
We could not do that.
His government would not spy in that way.
And then, when the facts were irrevocable, when he had to admit that we did indeed have U-2 planes going over Russia and that Francis Gary Powers was indeed an employee of our government.
And I will always think again of the sincere government worker who, just as you said, Bill, is doing what he's told, sincerely believes it, because that's the way he was reared, that's the way he was brought up, that's what his parents told him, that's what his grandparents told him, that's what the movies have told him, and he believes it.
So the age we're going through now of cynicism and disbelief and and skepticism is healthy in one way but again I think a
balance is going to come there too and I think that more of the officials in the government
and again I'm going to sound like a cockeyed optimist but I think a lot of the material
that you're talking about other people are talking about is going to start touching
the consciences of some of those people and I know I've been in audiences where not
everybody there likes you Bill and I think have probably come with the attitude of maybe even
getting some dirt on you or whatever.
I think some of those people, and here goes the cockeyed optimist again, I think you're
going to start touching the consciences of some of those people and I think we're going
to start seeing a change.
Well, I certainly hope you're right.
I know that when I first began and believed wholeheartedly that what I had seen when I
was attached to the naval intelligence could only be the truth and was talking about extraterrestrials
and that I had seen documents that said that they were real, thousands and thousands of
people flocked to me and it was incredible.
When I began to connect that with the New World Order, then I came under attack like
you never would believe in your entire life.
As long as I stuck to the extraterrestrials are here, everything was fine.
When I began to connect extraterrestrials with New World Order, things got very, very
And then when I began to see traces of a plan all the way back to 1917 and before, and could connect that with the running of War of the Worlds by the Mercury Theater and Orson Welles in 1936 as a test of this hypothesis, and began to think that maybe extraterrestrials aren't here, maybe this is some kind of a manipulation to create a One World Government, then Things got so nasty that we found ourselves in a ditch with nothing.
And now people are beginning to look at that as well as everything else.
There's always been people out there who refused to believe that extraterrestrials were real, but those same people refused to believe that it could also be used as a manipulation to create a one-world government.
Boy, you got me a little nervous, Bill.
The last chapter in our new book that we're working on is UFOs and the New World Order.
Isn't it funny how research converges?
Well, of course, you certainly will be quoted in that chapter, some of the discussions we've had, which we've taped with your permission.
Well, don't get me wrong, I don't know if extraterrestrials are real or not, but I've come to believe that there is a power in this world who are using extraterrestrials, whether they are real or not, to create an artificial enemy from outer space.
Whether they're an enemy or not, Whether they're even real or not, to create a downfall of national boundaries and a formation of a one world government to protect us, so that we can all come together to protect ourselves from this threat from outer space.
Well, I think so often, and I think you're familiar with the quote, Bill.
And I have it on, you know, down and I'm using it in the book.
I was talking to you and then talking to Gorbachev.
Oh yes, I know, exactly.
Okay, you know what I'm going to say?
Yeah, but the audience may not.
Go ahead.
Okay, when he said, wouldn't it be nice, and we can just hear the great communicator saying this, you know, wow, wouldn't it be nice if we had a threat from outer space and then all the countries would bond together because we had a common enemy.
Wouldn't that be great?
Well, maybe if, even if it didn't happen, Wouldn't it be great if we could make people think it was happening?
Now that's the Masons quote.
And again, you know the guy bless his heart, and again I'm not being political folks when I say this, but I think the man was genuinely had a good heart.
I'm not going to brag about maybe above his heart, and I think that maybe he slipped and said a lot of things that he wasn't really supposed to say.
And I've often felt if that wasn't one of those areas where maybe he slipped and said something that had been presented to him, but he wasn't supposed to bring it out that way.
That could be, but words like that from a president are bound to instill the subconscious idea in people's minds that there is a threat from space, whether there is or not.
And remember that Hitler brought the German people together by making the Jews a common enemy.
And in the Cold War, brought this country together and the free world together to face the evil empire, which was the Soviet Union.
Right.
Throughout history, to bring people together in a common goal, to realize a common goal, the thing that human beings have used more often than anything else is creating an enemy, whether there ever was one or not.
And that's the saddest, I think one of the saddest aspects of human history.
There always has to be the other.
Yes.
There always has to be the other, the other that we can make weird, that we can make less than human, that we can annihilate without caution.
Whether it's the Western expansion and it's the Native American, whether it's because we need cheap labor and it's the Afro-American slave, that the ability we have in the most noble and spiritual, and this can be preached from the pulpit of mainstream churches, of making and creating the other, the enemy.
Do you think that there's something in humanity as a whole that says that unless there's somebody lower than us we're nothing?
I think, and here again as a former teacher, I'm going to say that.
I'm so, I get sick to my stomach when I see the state of American education right now.
I mean I get literally ill when I think of it.
But to me, education is still one of the great salvations and I know you believe in that as well.
Yes, absolutely.
Educating the people and taking again, and I'm not trying to parrot you Bill because I really believe this, but taking our power back as a people and giving us the basic education.
What you have just said again is the earmark of the person, bless their hearts, who feel
inferior, who know that they do not have an adequate education, who fear that their very
common labor jobs are going to be taken away from them.
They desperately need to feel, for some reason, until we can make everyone feel that they
have a sovereign entity within them, that they have a right and a right to be able to
do what they want to do.
that they have a right and a right to be free.
and a purpose and a goal until we can kind of go back to the tribal structure of living
where everyone in the tribe has value, where everyone is important, where everyone is significant.
Until we can get those kind of basic ethics back in our culture, then we're going to have
prejudice and bigotry and hatred.
Sure.
Well, we've got to take a break right now.
Why don't you just hang on and maybe you'll be interested in what I'm going to say too.
I bet I will.
And for my steady listeners out there, you're going to hear once again, folks, we are in an extremely unstable period as far as the economy of the world, the economy of this nation.
Your own economy and your family is not, not too rock steady.
We all know that.
We are facing great change in the world, whether we want it or not, it is coming.
Now, we, we can have a great What a great say in what that change is going to be if we wake up and if we use our own individual personal power and come together and direct it in a way that will ensure a good future for all of us.
But this change, and especially built upon the foundation of the monetary system that we're using today, signals hard times ahead for our economy, and I've predicted And for many years now, a complete and total collapse of the economic system as we know it today.
Now, if our march on Washington on September the 29th, if we all meet in Washington as a part of Project 93 on the Capitol steps at 9 a.m., and if we are there in their next term in Then we may be able to change this, and we may not have to go through the hardships that have been predicted, not just by me, but by many other people.
If you haven't read Debt Virus by Dr. Jacaran, if you haven't read Harry Figge's book, if you haven't read my book, Behold a Pale Horse, you need to.
All of these books are pointing toward an economic catastrophe.
To protect yourself, you need to put your assets into something that is proven throughout history to be able to protect those assets.
And, folks, if you look at history, you know that there is only one place to put money in times like these, and that's in hard assets.
You don't put your money in hard assets in times like these to try to make a profit.
You put it there to protect those assets so that you will not lose the value.
Paper assets in times like these turn out to be disasters.
Call Swiss America Trading right now 1-800-289-2646.
Ask for the free newsletter.
Tell them that you listen to the Hour of the Times and while you're at it, thank them for
sponsoring this program, for without them, this program would not be here for you at
this very moment.
Call now 1-800-289-2646.
That's 1-800-289-2646.
By protecting your future, folks, you're also protecting the future of this program, the
Hour of the Time, and of course, freedom for the world.
Bye.
Bye.
Fear will freeze you when you face it.
Born from the darkest womb of the pharaohs, it rises from the quiet dust of centuries to wreak a strange vengeance against mankind.
It tears steel bars like pigs.
It snaps men's spines like matchsticks.
Walks through bullets like a goat.
It sees without eyes.
It lives without breath.
Yet its desires are strangely madly human.
The motion picture screen's most shocking experience in suspense.
It's really technically hard.
Oh my god.
I can't move in my new house today.
Movin' was rough but I got where I'm at.
My chain started ringin' and bell ringin' loud.
I knew I moved in a funny house.
Still I made up in my mind to stay.
I knew I'd moved in a funny house Still I made up in my mind to stay
And nothing was a call to drive me away When I saw something that you'd be pleased
Had one big eye and two big feet I stopped right still and I did the freeze
And that stroll right up to me Made noise with me, just sound like a draw
Said that you're gonna be here when morning calls I said you got to be here when the morning calls I'm gonna
stay right here, I ain't gonna run off I own this house now, I am bought Ain't no bond's gonna run
me off And the kitchen, my cook stove's blazing hot
Call me in the morning and the clock I'll be right there with you in my bed
We're back with Avengions and our special guest tonight is Mr. Brad Steiger who has written...
Gosh, I don't know Brad, how many books have you written?
I think about 128.
128?
That makes you an extremely prolific author.
I guess that would be the designation.
What are some of the subjects that you've covered?
What are some of the names of your books?
Let's see, we can go all the way back.
Mysteries of Time and Space is one that a lot of people have read.
I'm having a little level problems with you, Brad.
I need you to make sure your phone's right in front of your mouth.
That's much better.
Okay.
Mysteries of Time and Space, Medicine Power, Strangers from the Skies.
Are we still there?
Yeah, we're still here.
Oh, okay.
There was some strange noise coming in.
There's always strange noise on my phones.
There were a lot of strange noise on my phones all day long.
We're receiving an awful lot of threats by telephone.
We have a recorder now on the phone.
We've notified the county sheriff, the police department, and the telephone company, and it has to do with an expose show that I ran not too many days ago.
Also, our sponsor is receiving ultimatums.
And all kinds of things are happening, so we're taking the normal precautions around here.
Also, I need to tell the listening audience that WWCR is back on the air during that little musical selection.
We turned on the shortwave radio, and WWCR is strong.
For those of you who don't know what happened, they had one of the phases of the three-phase power that goes to the generator for 7435, and they were working feverishly to repair it, and they are now back on the air.
Let's get back to some of the subjects you've written about, Brad.
Yeah, okay.
I've written, as I say, A Mystery of the Time and Space has been a very popular book, Worlds Before Our Own, Gods of Aquarius, UFOs and the Transformation of Humankind, that's all one title, a very popular book, everything from German to Japanese, German to Japanese, that's been published, Project Blue Book, I edited the Air Force files, Project Blue Book, UFOs, As I've said in other books on Native American medicine, the Shamans, Sherry and I recently wrote Hollywood and the Supernatural, which deals with the supernatural phenomena that many movie stars have experienced.
Are you talking about George?
We had a Literary Guild selection last year, which we're pleased of.
That's like getting an Academy Award nomination when you're a writer.
What was that?
It was our book on pets.
Strange Powers of Pets.
That sounds interesting.
Did you see Stephen King's Pet Sematary, by the way?
Well, that kind of upset my stomach.
That kind of upset a lot of people's stomachs.
And I have written a number of novels.
I've written a lot of mystery stories all the way back with Alfred Hitchcock and The Saint and so forth.
And then my book on Rudolph Valentino was made into a movie by Ken Russell, the British producer.
And on and on.
And as we're talking with the paranormal, I've done a lot of ghost busting in the earlier days, going into haunted houses, working with that.
Did you ever find evidence or really believe that any of the ghosts you investigated were real?
Yeah, yeah.
I went in purely intellectual, almost smugly, disgustingly intellectual Bill, thinking that everything could be explained by a squirrel in the attic or a squirrel in someone's upstairs It's bound again to my, I guess, we all need to be humble, I mean, I'm a man, and running up against phenomena.
I had a buddy, ex-Green Beret Special Forces, a guy who's been a friend of mine for years, who would always go with me, in case, you know, sometimes people do nasty things when they fetch it off, so he was always along.
Usually had a couple friends who were police officers, And then there would be journalists and so forth.
So we had a pretty good team and we had a lot of electronic material and so forth.
There was this one place in Lincoln, Nebraska where a series of violent murders had taken place in the house over the years.
And we were called there.
Very often the people would call us there.
Believe it or not, Bill, would be police officers who are called out, you know, and again, they thought the same thing, you know, ha, ha, ghost, and then when they would find something, they could not explain what they saw.
That's when they'd call us, so I thought that was a very solid lead.
Well, police officers are usually pretty hardened, and they're not surprised by anything.
That's very interesting.
I found it very interesting.
And it's the same way with UFOs.
Again, my best leads have come from police officers, the police officers who drive the traffic airplanes and helicopters and so forth, who have encountered things.
So, I must say that I've had an excellent relationship with law enforcement officers all over the United States.
And enjoy that very much.
At any rate, in this particular basement, to make a long story short, they had things
like, you know, they'd turn on the faucet in the basement and put it here and the blood
would come out and they'd see the manifestations.
It was just a wide variety of things.
But anyway, we were back in this one room and I could see, one of my associates called
it to my attention, while I was in this back room where one of the murders had taken place,
the door kept trying to close.
Now the door had to go uphill.
It was an old basement that had probably been dirt flooring and just covered with cement.
You've seen those.
Sure.
So, it would hit Bill normally.
It would hit a ridge, a rise in the cement floor, but it would push itself over that.
So, I mean, there was definitely a force trying to shut this door on me.
So, to hold it, again, both my friends were over 200 pounds and they held the door.
And then after we left, after I'd finished my examination, I said, OK, the crazy door wants to be closed.
Shut the damn thing and lock it, which is what they did.
We went upstairs and we had not been upstairs very long when all of a sudden there was this tremendous crash.
And we knew it was that door being smashed open.
And then we heard footsteps like ping pong coming up from the basement stairs.
And every one of us in the room, and all of us guys were over 200 pounds, got literally lifted and thrown up in the air.
Now that tends to get your attention.
Well, it would certainly get mine really quick.
Yeah, when some invisible energy, you know, but yet seems to have an intelligence, first kind of playful, but then I ticked it off, you know, I got mad about, okay, buddy, you want to play?
Well, that kind of thing I encountered in a number of houses where There was a force, there was an energy, which seemed to be intelligent.
I had to revise a lot of my worldview.
I had to revise a lot of my philosophy.
I still don't know, and I'm not dogmatic about what that is, but it's what we call ghosts or what we call spirits throughout the centuries.
A lot of people would say that's demonic or demon.
What do you think about that?
I would have laughed my head off at that a few years ago too, but again I might not have the standard orthodox definition of what that word means, but I have also come to accept that there can be negative pockets, or let me rephrase that, pockets of negative energy that really seem to want to do you bad.
And this is all based upon personal experience?
Oh yes, yes.
What do you think about the concept of angelic beings or good beings that watch over people?
I, again, I've had, I have to say, whatever that is, whatever you want to call it, guide, guardian,
I have had my life saved. I've had a contact that way.
I've been cured of a strange disease by following, whatever you want to call it, angelic guidance, spirit guide or whatever.
Again, my personal experience Bill, whatever it is, and again I was so damned intellectual
and I was so proud of my IQ and proud of my brain and now I've come to accept that we
have to have an attitude of openness toward things.
Boy, you're describing my experience exactly.
You know I started out when I was 16.
I knew everything.
Yeah, and that's kind of a neat feeling.
Yeah, and I've grown to the point now where I know nothing.
I've got a lot of clues, but I really don't know anything and I'm searching for the answers
just as hard and fast and furious as I can search.
And I have found some of the answers.
I feel I've found some answers.
But every time I find an answer, every single time I find an answer, I find 5,000 more questions.
And that is dismaying.
Early in my career, I was very fortunate to have a couple of much older mentors.
Uh, who are quiet and unsung, uh, who were in this field, uh, you know, long before you or I were hatched, Bill, uh, who gave me some really good advice.
And, and, and one, one advice, and, and people don't understand this, um, so you have to be careful how you say it.
So, I mean, belief is the enemy.
And, and what he meant by that is if you get along, believe too strongly in any one theory, you can be misled.
So certainly I have my beliefs, certainly I have my opinions.
I'm not saying that, but I'm saying I think in this area... You can't shut the door to other ideas and other possibilities.
Exactly.
Because you and I have both seen, and we both know, people who have one hypothesis, and every little scrap of evidence has to fit that hypothesis, or what did they do with it?
Yeah.
So, like you just said my friend, we have to keep the door open because none of us know the whole picture.
And anytime someone tells me he has the answers, I know I don't want to take a long bus ride with that person.
That's usually a sign for me to say you possibly don't know as much as you think my friend.
That's true.
I remember doing one show here where I began to open people's Minds to some things that no one even wants to consider.
And I made the point that he, he who listens and believes what they're told all their life become prisoners of those beliefs.
And they are locked in chains just as the prisoner is locked in chains in death row.
And in fact, if they don't get out of that situation, They will die just like that prisoner on death row.
And die without ever having lived.
That's correct.
It's very strange.
I don't know if you've discovered this or not, but I have learned in my life that you only begin to live when you begin to walk on the edge of the razor.
I had a very profound near-death experience when I was 11.
It demonstrated to me, and I said to me, my experience doesn't have to prove anything to anyone else, because it was my experience, that there is that within us that is eternal, there is that within us that lives on.
And now I'm not in any hurry to replicate that experience, but having that kind of experience does remove your fear of death, when you find out there really is no pain, when you reach the point where you are really dying.
You beat up so much, which is what happened to me, that you are dying.
There is no pain.
Now, as I said, I'm not in a hurry to repeat the experience because I feel I've got a lot of things I want to do yet.
But having that experience at the age of 11 really freed me from a lot of, I think, time a lot of people spend their life saying, do we survive death?
Is there something beyond?
Well, to me, I had that demonstrated when I was 11.
I also had contact with something.
Some humanoid-type entity when I was five.
I'm not dogmatic about what that entity was.
I thought you were going to tell me an abduction story.
I wouldn't make that claim.
I don't know what happened.
I only know that this entity, I grew up in the plains, as I think you know, the wide open spaces.
There weren't other houses around.
One evening I heard footsteps in the October leaves.
We didn't have running water at that time.
Oh, I remember.
You told me this.
Go ahead.
The listeners will find it fascinating.
Well, I saw this smallish entity.
What I first thought was a small man with a big hat until as I was staring at the entity.
We've all done that where we've looked at the back of somebody's head, you know, until they turn around.
I guess that's what happened because I sat in the edge of my bed just staring at this stranger, this intruder to our farm.
And then slowly that entity turned to me and of course it was you know again the eyes were pretty ripped open and I thought that that wasn't a big head he had but that was an elongated skull and then I don't remember anything else.
Were you afraid?
I don't even remember fear.
I remember being intrigued.
I've always been a night person, so of course a little boy should have been in bed.
I just had a little vacation with my mother, sister, and the families and so forth.
Because I'm still a night person, as you know, I go to bed at 4 or 4.30 in the evening.
And my mother was saying, I was always that way, you know, they could never put me to bed and so forth.
So I just always enjoyed the evening for my work and my thinking and so forth.
So that's why I was up then and that's what I saw.
Now again, whatever that entity was, and I'm not dogmatic about it at all.
Some people say it was a dream.
Well, if it was a dream, it's the most profound dream.
And it's probably the only one I remember as being four and a half.
I don't remember any other dreams from that time.
But this I have never forgotten.
I mean, I can still see that.
I can still see that entity, whatever it was.
So I had these experiences before I was eleven.
So people go through their entire lives saying, what's our purpose in life?
Are we alone in the universe?
Is there life after death?
I feel really blessed, not special, not wonderful, but blessed that I had those deep questions answered for me, Bill, before I was 11.
So I could really focus on my work.
Well, you know, I can remember having some pretty vivid dreams when I was small.
or at least alerting people to those realities.
It wasn't anything like what you dreamed.
I remember for a period of time I used to dream that I was falling.
Later I learned it was supposed to be a sign of insecurity, that you don't feel comfortable where you're at or something.
I don't know if that's really true or not, but I grew out of that after about six months.
But boy, I would wake up covered with sweat and just shaking and still feeling like I was falling.
And then it would take me a minute to get my bearings in the room and realize that it was just a dream.
Well, what I learned to do early with my dreams, which is why I'm kind of convinced it isn't, is someone insists that all of them is a childhood dream, and I say, you know, I'm not interested, as I said, in arguing with the person.
I don't think it's a dream that you have, because so many people have this same experience.
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
But they attribute it to something else, and they're absolutely positive they know what it is, and I don't think they know what it is any more than the man in the moon.
So, we have to stay open, but interestingly, and I have to share this with you, because it was just a few years ago.
I'm 57 years old so I had this experience when I was, before I was 5.
So I mean this, I was nearly 5 but not quite.
So I mean we're going back a few years.
I walked in in Sedona, Arizona and of course you know where that is.
Yeah.
And a friend of mine was having an art show.
he does these spacey kind of paintings and so forth and I walked in there and there son
of a gun was as close to the entity I saw when I was five years old as I've ever seen.
In one of his paintings?
In one of his paintings.
So I said, Luis, I said my gosh, I said did you do that from my description because I
thought maybe I'd you know he'd been in the audience or something or at his home or some
of friends home.
He says no, no, no I was commissioned to do that by a lady.
As it never happens in real life, it always happens in the movies, but this time it happened
in real life.
The lady came walking in.
Now here is a woman who now lived in California, Bill, but when we met and compared notes,
I grew up in a little town, not in the town, but near a small Iowa town out in the country.
This woman, though we're meeting for the first time 50 years later, this woman grew up in that small Iowa town next to us.
Wow.
She had seen and we compared notes.
I'm not saying it's the same entity, but she thought it's similar entity.
It would have been done the same night, the same time, and we don't get confirmation until, you know, almost 50 years later.
You know, the same thing happened with Willie Strieber's book, Communion.
When that book hit the shelves, Many people who had no interest in UFOs or extraterrestrials whatsoever would walk by the book rack and just see the cover of that book and go into hysterics.
Yeah, yeah.
Because in some dream or in some experience that they had somewhere in their life, they had seen that same creature on the front of that book.
That's right.
Now, there's a lot of people out there, I know, shaking their heads.
Oh yeah, well, you know, fine.
As I've told them over and over and over again, this is something significant.
It's either some manipulation of the most Probably the grandest and most successful mind control operation in the history of the world, or it's a real phenomenon involving something that we don't understand at this point, or it's really extraterrestrials visiting this earth, but whatever it is, it is significant and it's affecting large numbers of people.
But what's more important is affecting the subconscious of all of us, and it's leading us in a direction that we don't know yet whether we want to go down that road.
And we need to stand back and evaluate this and find out if we really want to go down that road or not.
What do you think about that?
That's the moment of truth, the moment of decision we all have to face.
And I have opted for exploring the road, staying open, looking at all possibilities, trying not to be locked dogmatically to anyone.
But as you, my friend, intrigued by the mystery, because something is going on.
Now, I'm kind of uncomfortable, because every time I think, I picked up, I was at random, I picked up a book on the Illuminati at one time, and I saw my name in there in several places, not as an Illuminati, but of things that had happened to me, that people had gleaned from my books, specific incidents.
Also in that book I read that one of the early founders or manipulators or whatever of this society was a barren bode.
C-O-D-E.
I happen to have been born in the only town bode in the world.
Well, I hate to do this, Brad, but we're just about out of time.
Can you give an address and a phone number where our listeners can reach you if they wish?
Maybe find out about you?
Well, I've already got an address, and I should mention, if they would send a stamped self-addressed envelope, number 10, I would be happy to send a little catalog and where we're going to be and some of our overseas expeditions, if they'd like.
So, if they would send that to 505 West M.
That's M as in Mother.
505 West M Street.
Forest City.
Two words.
Forest City, Iowa.
50436.
And folks, if you don't remember that or you didn't get to write it down, I will post it on the hotline for you.
Brad, I want to thank you for being our guest tonight.
It was really nice to talk to you again.
Oh, good to talk to you always, Bill.
Give my best to the family.
Fantastic.
And tell Sherry we said hello also.
Take care now, friends.
Good night, folks, and God bless each and every single one of you.
The sound you hear is dripping blood.
This is the start of Black Sunday.
I'm out.
Boil it down to a pound, get a spoon.
Do die for a fly for a sackle.
Take your time, ain't life a good-lookin' Cause the rest of this mess ain't good-lookin'
Take a plea from the knees of a demon Till your pals and gals all come screaming
To the feet, put your feet to the loud house In their tries, put your spine and your toes out
In the chest, put a fat moose head At the feet, put your feet to the loud house
Brush your teeth with a piece of a toothed toenail At the desk, feel the breath of a drunken jail
Pull a standoff, your friend, with a razor blade In the night, change the mind, bring back yesterday
Say, y'all, them fights don't make you shoot your mother-in-law Put on your gorilla suit, drink some elbow soup and have a
ball You say, don't the ladies have a man fun? The beating of my
own mouth has begun At the feet, put your feet to the loud house In their tries,
put your spine and your toes out In the chest, put a fat moose...
Are you still there, Brad?
Yeah!
How'd you like it?
I think it really went fast.
Oh yeah, it does.
The hour goes real quick.
I think when you said that it was over... Yeah, the hour goes really quick.
Well, how'd you think it went?
Oh, I think it went fantastic.
I think it was really nice.
It was kind of a laid-back, easy conversation, and we talked about things that people find absolutely fascinating, even if they don't know anything about it.
And the ones who do know something about it are usually sitting on the edge of their chair waiting for some great revelation which we never give them because we don't have it either.
I've disappointed many people who come up to me for the word.
Oh yeah, me too.
The revelation.
I say, I'm sorry, I don't have it.
But if you ever find it, please tell me.
Yeah, me too.
Well, it was really good to talk to you, and I hope it's not too long before we get together.
Well, I'll be in... You're not going to New York, I take it?
No, I don't know... The Whole Life Expo?
No, I don't ever go to the Whole Life Expo.
You don't do those anymore?
No, they really upset me.
They really made me angry.
Oh, really?
Well, first I went, but they didn't pay me for a year.
Oh, really?
And then the Expo dissolved.
▲
Export Selection