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June 25, 1993 - Bill Cooper
59:25
Interview with Travis Walton of Fire in the Sky
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Thanks for watching! Please subscribe!
And in time, might and good have happened, but not by so much time.
And in time, might and good have happened, but not by so much time.
I'm William Cooper.
This is the Hour of the Time. I'm William Cooper.
Hello folks. You know, many, many people write or call and ask,
What is the purpose of the Hour of the Time?
What is the purpose of TEDxY?
You say on your program that it's not a religious show, yet you talk at length, at times, about religious matters.
Folks, our purpose is simply this.
You're right, it's not a religious show, never was intended to be, and never will be.
However, most of what is happening in the world today is caused by religious events that happened thousands of years ago, and hundreds of years ago, and some just yesterday.
I'm going to tell you now our purpose, our beliefs, our creed, if you will, what we hope to accomplish can be summed up very simply, and you may quote me.
Number one, I am a messenger.
Make no mistake about that.
My purpose and the purpose of those who help in this cause, and the Citizens Agency for Joint Intelligence, is to wake the sheeple, empower the people, save freedom for the world, understanding that freedom cannot exist without God.
We believe that none of this can happen.
Unless all the secrets are unlocked and all of the truth is opened and bared to the light of day.
We must live our lives from a point of truth.
We must not accept the deceptions and the manipulations that are aimed at us, that are meant to capture our attention and spin us around in little cul-de-sacs.
that are bent upon pitting us against each other and creating great wars to decimate our populations and control us and line the pockets of those who are the controllers.
We believe that secrets must end, deception must end, manipulation must end.
We believe that all peoples must live their lives by the truth and by the truth only, And we believe that every single person up on the face of this earth must become responsible for their actions, for their countries, and for the world.
We believe that racism is inherently evil and must be eradicated from the face of this earth, and this must be done quickly.
and completely, or we will be facing a war between the races that will be the bloodiest, most destructive, most painful, most terrible war that has ever been fought in the history of the world.
We believe that the Constitution of the United States of America and the first ten amendments, known as the Bill of Rights, are the only documents in the history of the world that have ever truly set man free.
We believe that those documents are the only barrier existing in the world right now between the common man and slavery, and that if the United States Constitution and the Bill of Rights fall, for any reason, if they are destroyed, ripped apart, torn asunder, superseded, replaced, however you wish to term it, that freedom will disappear from the face of this earth.
Understand that.
We don't care where you live, what color you are, what language you speak, or what religion you attend.
Everyone in this world will lose all freedom if those documents fall.
Many of you in foreign countries wonder why we concentrate upon saving the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
And don't address many of the issues in the rest of the world.
It's because you have already fallen.
You have already lost your freedoms, or you never had them to begin with.
Your hope lies with us.
It is the only hope for the world.
And if we fail, you all fail.
We all fail.
Humanity will take a step backwards from which it may never recover.
Chew on that for a while, folks.
Tonight we're going to take you into the mind, into the experience of a man named Travis Walton.
You may have heard of him.
You may have seen the major motion picture that is making the rounds right now.
about his experience called Fire in the Sky.
Pay close attention.
This is a story that you don't want to miss.
It is one that is happening all over this country and around the world to many people.
It is being largely ignored by the major media and by most of the people of the world.
Because it is being ignored, answers are not being found, and people are manipulated by this experience.
So listen closely.
Help us find the answer.
Well, it was November 5th, 1975.
There were seven of us, a group of men, working in the forest, cutting trees.
We'd just finished a long, hard day's work, and we were inside of the home, and it was starting to get dark.
We loaded our chainsaws into the truck.
We were riding in a crew cab truck, a double cab truck, which is how seven people were able to fit into one vehicle.
We headed home, and as we were leaving the area, we noticed a light coming through the trees.
There was something strange about this light right off.
It's just out of place.
The woods are a very uniform environment.
You don't see these kind of things.
But the glow was coming from our right, up towards the top of the ridge.
This road we were on was headed up the ridge towards the Rim Road.
And there was thick trees between us and the source of this light.
But we could see this light coming through there.
There's just something really weird about it from the start.
Everybody had been kind of chattering and carrying on and talking, and although nobody said, hey, look at that, right off, you know, one by one everybody kind of fell silent and was looking off to the same direction I was looking.
So I figured that, you know, they were baseball twos at that point.
And as we drove, I was trying to, you know, figure out what this could be.
I thought it might be some hunter's camp there, maybe a forest fire or something.
Maybe a crashed airplane hanging up in a tree.
But when we finally got around these trees where we could get a straight shot back up through there to see the source of this light, we saw it hovering there.
We saw a large, glowing, disc-shaped object.
covering in the sky and it was unmistakable.
Right after that, one of the guys in the back yelled out, it's a spaceship.
the next video.
And the boss slammed on the brakes, stopped the truck.
This is what we saw was not some little point of light off in the sky.
It was not some glowing ball of gas or anything like that.
It was distinctly visible.
Definite, clear outline, mechanical edges.
Uh it was a glowy metallic object.
It's the color of molten metal coming out of a blast furnace.
It's kind of a golden white color.
It just lit up the area with a strange sort of a glow.
Now Travis this is kind of important to me.
Did the skin of this object that you saw actually glow, or was this glow around it, or was it a product of a whole bunch of lights?
Can you discern that?
Well, there were darker areas or dividing parts to it, but there was actually light coming from the craft.
It was not so bright that you couldn't look at it, but there were actually, appeared to
be the surface of the craft was lit up.
There was a strange sort of a glow that was kind of like there and not there, just kind
of put a strange color to everything that was in the area.
But seeing this thing, I thought, you know, kind of like when you spot a wild animal in
the woods, you know, you're just going to catch a glimpse and it'll be gone.
And so I thought that I'd miss a chance to see this thing up close.
And so I got out of the truck and started towards this thing.
Uh, all the guys started yelling at me to get away from there and get back in the truck.
It was causing them a lot of, uh, anxiety and, you know, I was, I was pretty scared too.
But, uh, I guess I was grandstanding a little bit, so I'm... At the same time, I, I was curious.
I wanted to see this thing up close.
So, uh, As I went towards it, I could hear this strange sound that it was making.
It was a sound, you know, unlike anything I've ever heard before or since.
It was a very odd mixture of sounds.
There was some kind of a low rumble to it, a kind of a rhythmic pounding that seemed to vibrate the ground, my body.
Something more like you could feel than hear.
But there were also some high notes in there that were intermittent.
The thing kind of was kind of a horn, like a turbine generator or something.
Anyway, it wasn't really loud, it was just kind of a sound that was there.
Was this a mechanical sound, like machinery?
It did sound, there was some machinery sound to it, but there were some other tones there that were just... Things you didn't recognize.
Yeah, something I just hadn't heard before.
Kind of like, you know, it kind of gives you the feeling that you're hearing something that's kind of going off of the frequency range of your hearing now.
But as I got towards, closer to this thing, I slowed down because I was feeling, you know, a little bit more apprehension the closer I got to it because it didn't take off.
Immediately.
But when I got closer to it, it did suddenly start to move.
And the sound, there was a swell, a powerful swell in the sound that startled me.
And I jumped the cover behind a log that was sticking up out of a logging slash pile there.
I jumped down behind the end of this log.
I was in danger.
I raised up and I felt an electric shock, kind of a numbing, it was almost like a physical blow to my upper body that caused me to lose consciousness.
I just blacked out.
From that moment on I was out.
But the men in the truck said that they saw a brilliant bolt of energy, they said it was kind of blue-green in color, come out of the bottom of the craft, hit me in the upper body, head and chest area, and they said when it hit me that it made a sound, sort of a kind of a whoop kind of a sound, a popping sound, like a Like a giant spark or something, but they said it looked like an explosion.
They said it looked like a grenade had gone off in front of me.
And you don't remember this?
No, I don't remember this.
This is just based on their descriptions.
And some of those descriptions kind of vary.
One of the guys in the original police report I just got a hold of recently described it as a long blue flame, you know, and some of them described it kind of like a lightning bolt or like a laser beam or something.
They said that when it first hit me that it kind of stiffened me out and they said it threw me back through the air and they said when my body hit the ground that I hit just as limp like a ragdoll and they saw the dust boiling up around me and they thought I'd been fried, you know.
They just immediately panicked and fled the scene.
There's been a lot of criticism directed at the men for leaving at that point.
Everyone imagines that in such circumstances they would be more heroic and stand their ground, but I think it's an unfair judgment, you know.
People that think they might react anyway might be surprised when they're actually confronted with the situation.
Truth is, no one really knows until it happens to them personally, and everybody probably would react in a different way.
It's unfair, in my estimation, to judge that kind of a thing without being there.
It's not subjective.
But, go ahead, continue.
Well, you know, this issue of bravery or cowardice there is something that came up a lot, and the crew boss, who is my best friend, Got a lot of flack over this, you know.
Some people in the media would come and interviewing and one of the first questions was, how could you, how could you go off and leave your friend there?
And, you know, I think that he kind of projected this onto me, you know.
He's having a big load of guilt dumped on him and he kind of felt that I felt that way.
Did he feel that you had originally raised this question?
I think he did, you know, and part of the problem between he and I that resulted in a falling out that lasted several years was that my brother took great exception to this, you know, especially while I was missing, you know, asking him, you know, how he could possibly leave his brother, you know.
So, it led to some problems, but, you know, I have to say that these guys were in a position where they couldn't have done anything else.
They were facing an unknown threat.
They had no weapons.
They had no way of dealing with this.
They could have found themselves in a similar situation or find a similar fate as me if they had tried to do anything about it.
So they drove away in panic.
I was told that all the men were screaming at Mike to keep going and get him out of there.
But they said they drove up a quarter of a mile and had a very agitated discussion as to what to do.
They stopped the truck and hashed it out.
A lot of the men were saying, let's just get out of here and get some help.
A truck went by at that time.
There were some hunters, deer hunters, it was deer season at the time.
So they took off and tried to catch the truck and were unable to catch up with them.
So they decided that they had to go back.
Not everybody was in agreement with that, but the boss and a couple of the Other guys in the truck that, you know, were feeling more responsible about the situation insisted.
There was some argument there about whether they would, you know, the ones that didn't want to go would just get out of the truck and stay there and wait for the others to go get help.
But they were too scared to do that, so they all went back.
And the reason I'm mentioning that is because this is the departure that the movie takes
from what actually happened in the movie.
They show Mike going back alone, whereas they all went back.
And as they approached the area, they saw the craft rise up and streak off towards the
northeast.
So they felt fairly secure in returning to the spot.
The northeast is the Four Corners area.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Anyway.
That's very important, but go ahead.
They were extremely terrified when they got there.
And they got a flashlight out and they said they went around the area.
They found my tracks where I'd got out of the truck and led up to the spot where I'd been hit, and they couldn't find tracks going anywhere else.
They made a search of the area, calling out, and when they couldn't find me, they decided they had to go report it.
Uh some of the guys were saying let's just get some more help from you know friends and family and get out there and see if maybe he did just wander off but uh it was finally decided that they'd have to report it to the authorities.
Now all this that you're telling us now is not your own memory?
No.
This is accounts that you've been told This is just what has been reported to me second hand from the police reports and things I've read.
After this beam of light or energy or whatever it was hit you, you don't really remember anything for quite some time.
Right.
When they got back to town, they called the local deputy and he came and interviewed them.
And he radioed his boss, the sheriff, in the county seat who came there.
Does he still, do they still work for the sheriff's department?
Some of them, well, the sheriff is now a county supervisor and his under-sheriff is now driving a propane truck, his own truck.
Propane truck.
And I think the other one is in law enforcement someplace else, the original deputy that took the report.
Anyway, the sheriff remarked that when he finally did arrive there, and this was almost two hours later, that some of the men were still crying, that they looked extremely distraught and upset.
But the sheriff and his men, although they could tell something really terrible had happened, immediately suspected that there had been foul play.
There had been a fight or something.
Maybe the men had killed me.
Chainsaws or something.
They had buried my body, hidden my body out there and made up this story to cover up for the deed.
So, the sheriff organized a massive manhunt of the area.
It spanned four days.
Using helicopters, six-winged aircraft, men on horseback, had over 50 men out there.
And they were looking for a body.
And they failed to find a body, but there was still this accusation of murder.
So men requested to volunteer for polygraph tests.
The sheriff brought in their top examiner.
Uh, from the, uh, State Police, uh, Department of Public Safety, Cy Gilson, who tested the six men, and, uh, they passed.
It was originally announced that five passed and one was inconclusive, that they couldn't
tell either way.
But I recently got a hold of the original police report and it was privately told to
the sheriff that the sixth man had been telling the truth too.
But since he had become upset with the examiner and walked out there before his test was complete,
that he had to give it an official inconclusive.
But nevertheless, this sort of put to rest in some people's minds the idea that I'd been
murdered.
But I think a lot of people weren't completely convinced until I turned up five days and
six hours after I'd been taken.
Where did all this take place, Travis?
Well, the incident happened near the Rim Road in the Apache Ridge National Forest.
Is that the name of the road?
I mean, if somebody were to go look for it, would they look for the Rim Road?
Well, the Rim Road stretches all the way across the forest.
It's near Turkey Springs.
Turkey Springs was the name of the contract that we were working on.
Anyway, the first thing I recall after losing consciousness was I was lying on my back.
We hadn't completely left the area before it happened.
Anyway, the first thing I recall after losing consciousness was I was lying on my back.
I was in a tremendous amount of pain.
I didn't come to real quickly either.
I just kind of went in and out.
By pain, Travis, what do you mean?
Did your arms hurt?
Your legs hurt?
Did you have any broken bones?
It was kind of centered in my head and chest, but it seemed like it was all over.
It was just this ache or a burning feeling all over me.
There was a light above me, and I could hear people moving around me, and I remembered At one point there, that approaching this thing, and something hitting me.
But, so I assumed that I had been heard and taken to a hospital.
And it wasn't until I finally could focus my eyes and see that I saw these creatures standing over me.
And I just, I just became hysterical.
I just flipped out.
And by creatures, you did remember this, that you came to slowly, and you had this pain that centered in your head and chest area, and you saw what you described as creatures.
Could you be more specific?
What did these creatures look like?
They were humanoid.
By that I mean they had two arms and two legs, hands, and like that.
But they were small, a little over four feet tall.
Um, hairless.
They had very large hairless heads.
They were kind of a chalky grayish white color.
And they had small features, like small nose, mouth, and ears, except for their eyes.
Did they actually have a nose and have ears?
Yes, they did.
And...
What was it about the eyes?
The eyes...
The eyes were huge.
You know, they were just these huge eyes.
They just seemed to look right through me.
I just had this strange feeling when they looked at me.
There was a kind of an impersonal quality there, just a kind of a coldness.
There was also a feeling of great intelligence.
You know, just in dealing with people, when you look at somebody, you kind of look into their eyes, and for some reason you can always gauge fairly accurately a person's level of intelligence just by looking into their eyes.
And I got the feeling of a very high level of intelligence, but at the same time, they seemed to be completely indifferent to my hysteria.
I was screaming, I just was hysterical.
There must have been some other quality about them that caused you to feel, whatever it was, that caused you to go into hysterics, as you described it.
I'm trying to use your words so that I don't put anything on this.
You know, a lot of people, they try to picture this, well, you know, I've seen tents with jelly masses, you know.
They see these things on TV or in theater or movies, you know, the special effects get so wild, these horrible creatures.
They think, what's so horrible about that?
If you see something in real life that is human but not human in that way, it's just, you know, you just can't imagine the situation confronting this in reality.
I think a lot of that, in retrospect, is the fact that when I came to, I was in such pain.
You know, I'm combining the shock of the sight of these things with this pain that I was feeling, this feeling of being trapped.
Did you equate the two?
In other words, did you feel that the pain was a response?
It was just kind of an instant.
It was just kind of a reaction.
Were you afraid, Travis?
I was terrified.
It was hard for me to even talk about it.
I was missing for over five days and six hours and yet I can only recall just a matter of
minutes of that time and most of that was just I was in a state of total terror, total
hysteria until I was finally forced down onto a table.
They put a mask over my face.
It was a, looked like an oxygen mask.
It didn't have any tubes hooked in.
It was a black ball.
Did it cover your whole face or just your mouth?
Just my mouth and nose and I reached up and tried to pull it away but before I could I
blacked out.
And that was the last thing I remembered until I found myself lying face down beside the
road outside of Heber.
We've got to take our break now.
Folks, don't go away.
We'll be right back after this very short pause.
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The End.
And that was the last thing I remembered until I found myself lying face down beside the
road outside of Heber.
And that's the town next to where this happened.
I remembered at that point what had happened to me.
But as I raised my head up, I could see a light shining down onto the roadway there.
And I looked up just as the light went off, and I couldn't see whether it was a hat closing
or a light on the outside of the thing going off, but I saw this disc-shaped craft.
And this was different from the one we saw in the woods.
This was more rounded looking and more polished.
It was kind of a silvery look to it.
Was it daylight or night?
It was night.
And just as I looked, it shot straight up into the sky.
Very quick.
It was surprising that it would be silent as quickly as it moved.
It just kind of stirred the air a little bit.
I felt heat coming from it, but it wasn't giving off light.
And I looked around, recognized this piece of road, and I saw light down there, and I ran down into the town.
I managed to call my family to come and get me before I collapsed there in the phone booth where they found me.
And this was just outside Hever?
Yeah.
Did anybody else come along and talk to you during this time?
Well, it was desolate.
There was no one.
When you woke up there after five days and six hours, were you clean shaven?
Did you need a bath?
I didn't realize it, but you know, when they picked me up and they were taking me back, I was pretty hysterical and they made references to people worrying and the search and stuff.
Up until that point, I thought this was the same night.
So, you know, they said, Toretta, it's been five days.
And that was just such a shock to me.
It's a failure faith.
I had a five day growth of beard and I just kind of latched into a sort of a state of catatonia there.
Did it appear like you'd been taken care of while you were gone?
Was your body clean?
The physician that examined me the next day I did remark that I was not in the condition of someone who'd been wandering around the woods for five days, that I was relatively clean except for, you know, sawdust from working out there.
And there were a number of tests that were run, medical tests, a whole battery of tests, because, you know, the main thing was I was worried that there was some Lingering effects here, you know.
Was I going to come down with some bizarre infection that nobody had any answer for?
Or, you know, were there going to be harmful effects from breathing an atmosphere that wasn't right for me?
You know, would I, did I, had I been exposed to radiation?
But the test came out, you know, pretty clean on that point.
Right off the bat, when this happened, you know, once the men had resolved the question of murder by passing polygraph tests, there was the accusation that, well, they just believed this happened to them.
They were all out there drunk or on drugs or something and they hallucinated this.
So, you know, one of the medical tests was that I had blood and urine samples run to the Maricopa County Medical Examiner's drug screen.
Which revealed no trace of any drugs.
And, you know, in the aftermath of this, it was an incredible amount of effort directed at trying to explain it away any way people could.
It was just one allegation after another, and it got to be pretty ridiculous.
Did this cause you a lot of problems in your personal life?
It really did.
As years went on, and this continued, and people's reaction to it was so severe, but I have to say that looking back on it, a lot, a major portion of the unpleasantness in the whole retrospect of this thing is people's reaction to it.
To the point where, you know, it almost overshadows the event itself, and that's saying a lot.
That is saying a lot.
In fact, that's saying a hell of a lot.
Did you have any support group?
Did you belong to a church?
Did your family stand behind you?
Well, the people who knew me best were the people who were the most supportive.
The people who attacked the most, the people who said the most disparaging things were the people who knew me the least and really knew the least about the event itself.
They really didn't have the facts, and so many of the theories that were advanced to try to explain it away were at complete odds with basic, easily verified facts.
It's just one thing after another, you know?
If it wasn't a drug hallucination, then it was a transitory psychosis.
I'd suddenly flipped out and hallucinated the whole thing.
But both of those theories fail to take into consideration that seven people do not have identical hallucinations.
We also have the same thing.
So, there was naturally, you know, I took polygraph tests myself.
I've taken and passed three separate polygraph tests, and I've undergone regressive hypnosis.
And there's a lot of physical evidence that's been ignored in this case.
Tell us about some of the physical evidence that we all know that physical evidence is something hard we can feel, we can see, we can smell, we can taste, we can hold in our hands.
What was it and what happened to it?
Well, there was a researcher in the area, who came to the area right after this happened, and he went to the site and he found traces of ozone, high levels of ozone in the area.
You're familiar with how he, what machinery he used to take that out.
How many days after the event was this?
This was, I don't know, a couple of days.
Who was this researcher?
He was Bill Spalding from Brown's Fossil Watch.
Okay.
He also had a gauze meter that he took magnetic readings.
He plotted the area out on a grid map and found some incredible magnetic anomalies.
I guess in the surrounding area, you have a uniform reading, whereas right at the site
where the craft appeared, there was some high reading, like 10 or 12 plus and minus, up
to a 15 in one spot there, deviation from background. Also, it was a man that came to
the site, I was told about this during the search, a couple of the men on the crew were
present. The man was dressed in a Forest Service uniform.
Now, the crew boss is familiar with all the Forest Service guys in the area, so unless he was
from outside the area, anyway, this guy was kind of mysterious in his behavior because he
was taking these readings around the area, and when the men approached him, he seemed to be
extremely vague about what he was doing.
They tested... He said, well, test us.
They tested the men, and it was just background reading of one and a half.
And I said, well, OK, we've gone home, changed our clothes, and bathed.
So how about testing our hard hats?
And so the guy said, OK.
And they went and got the hard hats.
And the hard hats registered six on the dial.
And this was twice that of a guy's Radium Dial watch, who was there.
And the man reacted very strangely to this, and when the men said, Well, that's the truck.
You know, that was here, laying off.
He rolled his equipment up and walked away and they never saw him again.
And there was never anything reported about these readings, but there were a number of
witnesses.
And nobody really knows who this guy was?
No, not...
It may have been somebody that the Forest Service brought out, but it may have been
some government man in disguise.
I don't know.
But, okay, they have those magnetic readings, ozone, the radiation.
There were also a number of fragments found by Mr. Spalding at the site.
He said that they were small little chips of what looked like...
They were shiny gray, sort of...
Looked like obsidian.
And it...
It was very, very definitely looked to be like an unnatural material.
Obsidian, for our listeners, is volcanic glass.
Yeah.
Anyway, there's no kind of mineral like that in the area.
But they found a pile of these metal fragments that he turned over to my brother, who turned
that over to the people from the Area Phenomena Research Organization, who had it analyzed.
And they said that it was some sort of a high temperature, high grade silicone.
But, you know, that's all pretty mysterious, and the samples have disappeared.
I don't have any written report on that.
You know, nobody disadmits, and there's been material written about it here and there, but nothing real official.
It's really kind of a loose end that I think really should have been followed up on.
Now, people used to hear a lot of talk about this, but nobody really, as far as my investigation into this is concerned, nobody really started to do any Well, I got kind of disgusted with all the controversy and all the untrue things that were being said.
such as the movie that was made until just in the last few years.
Why is that, Shane?
Well, you know, I got kind of disgusted with all the controversy and all the untrue things
that were being said.
There were things published that were just one inflated thing after another just stacked
upon and stacked upon.
In order to refute that, you just, you know, I first started to try to do that.
I'd get out there and try to rebut these things.
I'd say, look, I can prove this isn't true.
And I would document it, but it was just one thing after another.
I just got to discuss it with it.
So this is the way that the ufology movement seems to operate.
They're not professional.
Anybody can call themselves a ufologist.
And they tend to do that kind of thing, which is why we, as an organization, have separated ourselves from them totally also.
Because there's so much rampant total bullshit connected with those people that it doesn't even pay to get involved with them.
But there are some people who are seriously trying to uncover the truth of what's happening.
There are several different scenarios that could be occurring.
One, of course, is the possible visitation of this planet by extraterrestrials.
Another is that this could be a human technology and what people perceive to have happened.
May have been put into their minds by some sophisticated mind control operation.
None of us really know.
We're really trying to get to the bottom of this because whatever it is, it certainly means something profound for our future.
I agree.
I agree.
And as far as all those theories are concerned, even though this happened to me, any one of those could explain it.
I lean towards the extraterrestrial hypothesis, but I do not exclude the idea that this could be some manifestation of some Earth power at all.
It's very possible.
How has this affected you through the years, Travis?
Do people still remember this?
Do you still have problems in your personal life with this?
I notice you still live in the same...
You know, there was a lot of stigma and all the controversy and everything.
So, you know, I just kind of slammed the door on it and just refused to talk about it for so long.
And, you know, I had a lot of movie offers over the years and I turned those down because I was just fed up with it.
And so, you know, that's really why it's so long before a movie happens.
The way they persuaded me to do this was, you know, the idea was if they could create something that would allow people to live for themselves, you know, what we've been through, you know, experience it on the gut level, you know, the emotional experience, that maybe it would open up their minds and they'd take a more objective look at the evidence.
And, you know, the movie's not a documentary, but As far as on the emotional, the experiential level, I think it did succeed in doing that because I have noticed a profound change in people's attitudes in the community in terms of their reaction to me.
Since they've seen the movie?
Yeah, I think the movie had that effect.
I've heard all kinds of things about the movie.
I haven't seen it yet.
I intend to see it this weekend because it's on the drive over in the Clinetop Lakeside area while we're up here.
We're going to go see it.
I didn't want to see it until I talked to you, simply because I heard so much about the movie deviating from your real story, and I didn't want that to color this interview at all.
We try to keep anything extreme as to what should come out in an interview, which we always hope is the truth, from interfering.
If there were anything that you could do different, what would you have done?
It seems that people who do stay in their vehicles and do stay in their trucks and don't try to approach these things when they have these types of encounters never have these kinds of problems on the norm.
I mean there are some exceptions to this but on the norm.
And it's on the other side it does appear that people who do get out of their cars or trucks or do try to approach these things do have on the norm the same kind of experience or experiences like the one that you have which tends to tell me that if you ever have an experience with an unidentified playing object at a close range Stay away from it.
And that would be my recommendation, too, because I don't think we know enough about what's going on to say whether it's dangerous or not.
You know, I personally, in hindsight, can say, hey, they did return me, and I'm alive, but who could fathom what their purposes were, you know?
Whether that was done out of some moral obligation or maybe some other reason they had, I can't say.
So I would say stay away from it.
I don't want to open a can of worms with this next question, but I have to ask this.
They return you.
Did they return anything else with you?
Have you noticed that you're smarter, or you're healthier, or strange ideas come into your mind?
Or maybe you're not as smart.
I don't know.
And you may not even want to answer this because it might cause a whole new controversy.
Right.
Who wants to get diagnosed?
But these are the things that come to mind.
Why did they take you?
Do you have any idea?
I mean, if they didn't leave anything with you, what was the whole point?
I don't know.
I don't know.
You know, a lot of people, you know, news media refer to it real glibly as a As a medical examination, I don't know what they were doing to me.
I woke up in the middle of whatever was going on, and who can know?
It's terrifying to speculate about that, and I really just kind of put it out of my mind.
But I don't know what the purpose was.
You could drive yourself nuts trying to figure it out, because what happened to me, so much seems to be a fragment.
Did you have any set religious viewpoints before this happened to you?
Were you a member of a church?
Yeah, I was a member of the church here.
Which church were you a member of?
LDS Church.
Latter Day Saints?
Yes.
Have your religious views changed since this happened?
No, no, and I really don't think that this necessarily has any religious implications, unless your religion specifically denies such things, but, you know, I think that the Supreme Being, or beings, are Over everything there is, and this is just one of the things that is.
Did your church support you?
Did the people?
I didn't.
Did you feel like you were on display when you went to church?
Yeah, I did.
I tended to stay away because, you know, people were reacting to this.
I kind of turned inward and kind of shut people out.
I've won it alone.
My main method of coping with all this was denial.
I just sort of slammed the door on it and cleared it out of my mind.
You know, nothing we would talk about at home and just try to get on with life and live as normal as possible.
And it took a lot of time, a lot of years before, you know, things started to feel anything as close to normal.
And you don't think that you were left with any message or any... I hope not.
I need so many people and talk to them who say that they were given some task to do in
the future and they know that they've got this task to do but they don't know what it
is.
Some tell me they have a message to give to humanity and that's what they're trying to
do.
And you know I never make judgments about this.
I'm trying to point out what this is all about rather than judge the individual people.
Because on the whole, on the whole most of the people that I talk to, including you,
I believe, believe the story that they're telling.
In their hearts and in their minds, they believe that what they're telling me happened, really happened.
Whether it did or not, of course, is a whole different story, but that's going to be down the road when we finally solve this mystery.
And I think it ultimately will be solved, but I don't know how that's going to be done.
Yeah.
I tell you it's not going to be done by ignoring it and by ridiculing people who come forward with these stories.
People who may have experienced this tend not to come forward, and so there may be a wealth of knowledge out there that we can't even get to because of that.
What do you think about the movie?
How do you feel about that?
Well, you know, I would like to urge everyone to realize that the movie is not a documentary.
You know, Hollywood does take dramatic license, and if you're looking for a documentary, you know, read my book, you know, which is what the movie is based on.
Because, you know, there I go into all the specific details about how the movie differs from the book and all that kind of stuff.
But the movie does succeed in communicating the feelings, the core essence of what we experienced.
And the events that surrounded the search and the accusations of murder and the investigation and all that, all that stuff was very close to the way it really was.
You can rely on that in there.
But there were parts in my experience aboard the craft, that's where they took the greatest liberty.
They just invented something that you don't know whether it happened or not.
They felt that since probably things had happened that I couldn't recall, that they felt justified in speculating these things.
Do you think they speculated or do you think that maybe they took this from some of the stories the other abductees had?
Yeah, they did.
That's what they said, that they took them from some other reports that they had, some of the more unusual ones that they felt would add, you know, visual impact to the story.
But another thing that they were doing was, a lot of what happened to me aboard the crash were things that were going on inside my head, sorts of psychological things, things I was thinking.
And since they didn't want to use a narrator, you know, that's tacky, they wanted to be able to show rather than tell, they contrived scenes that they felt would evoke the same emotion as what I was telling.
For instance, there's this scene where the actor is being held down by this membrane.
And you know, when I regained consciousness, I found myself in a very cramped space.
It was dimly lit.
I was having a great deal of difficulty breathing.
The air was seeming very humid and hard to breathe.
And so I had these feelings of claustrophobia and suffocation that would be impossible to
translate to film if you just showed an actor standing there breathing hard, looking panicked.
You know, you wouldn't understand why.
Incidentally, that's one of the most terrifying feelings to ever experience, is the feeling
of suffocation and not being able to breathe.
So, you know, that was another factor concerning that that we discussed earlier about why I reacted so negatively to the sight of them and this feeling of suffocation, too.
But anyway, there was this scene where the actor is held down by this membrane.
He's struggling to move.
It's covering his face.
He's struggling to breathe.
And I think that very powerfully evoked the emotions of claustrophobia and suffocation that I was feeling, although there was, you know, nothing that I recall that happened just that way.
And there you have it, folks.
From his own mouth, Travis Walton's experience when he was, as he says, abducted by extraterrestrials in a flying disc somewhere near the east central section of the state of Arizona.
The interview took place in Snowflake, Arizona.
Whether he was actually abducted or not, he does not really know.
Whether they were extraterrestrials or whether this was a tremendously successful mind control He does not know, and neither do we.
Because of the testimony of these seven different witnesses and the technology that I myself and others have witnessed, we know that their sighting of the flying disc was most probably real.
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