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May 4, 1993 - Bill Cooper
58:46
Gary Hunt interview #3
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that Branch Davidian was under siege.
I'm fine.
Can you fill us in on what happened after the last time that we talked?
Well, as we all know, April 19, 1993, the FBI, through their actions, either negligently or intentionally murdered 86 people in the Mount Carmel complex.
That's correct.
What circumstances led up to that?
The FBI was absolutely unwilling to tolerate any outside assistance in finding a peaceful resolution in Waco.
There were many efforts.
The only one that they succumbed to was the one which involved Dick DeGruyne going into the complex.
Dick DeGruyne had gone to Baylor University in Waco with William Sessions and they had been friends since school.
I'm not going to say that it's unfortunate that he got in because he is able to bring out a lot of truths of what did occur in the complex.
He did see a lot of the evidence and he's been giving that information out and I respect him very much for a bar attorney to take the risk that he has by exposing that.
But there were family members, there were myself with the bar of attorney, there were many people trying various efforts to attempt to achieve a peaceful resolution.
And in hindsight, looking back, it seems that every effort for a peaceful resolution was overturned or just ignored by the FBI and the ATF.
They did not seek a peaceful resolution.
Well, you don't really believe that they wanted to, do you?
No, I don't.
I was surprised, however, when the building caught fire until I realized that that would be the only way that they could destroy all the evidence.
Just prior to the building catching fire, The front door to the complex, which we in Waco knew held a very significant hard evidence as to who fired first, was run over at least three times by a tank.
Now, it's kind of interesting that we were told at the 1030 press conference that morning before the fire that the tank retriever was the vehicle that was equipped for the M5 disbursement of CS gas.
In Congress now they're calling it tear gas, which generally refers to pepper gas, but the CS gas is much more debilitating.
And from both rights I understand that the tear gas is carried on a medium called CAP, which is a flammable liquid similar to kerosene.
Well, it's our experience that we're not going to We're not going to give any credence to what that man says on this show, because we know who he is and what he's doing.
We know he's a 32nd degree Freemason.
He's also a member of the Mormon Church, and the man is a Trojan horse.
Also, CS Gas, Colonel Bryce has made a statement that CS Gas is an inhumane, life-threatening gas, and that is not true.
It is not.
Every military recruit who goes through boot camp goes through tear gas training, and the CS gas is used, and it is not inhumane or seriously debilitating.
In fact, the fresh breeze blowing on the face and into the lungs can quickly allow a person to recover.
So, the dispersal system was a medium that used a liquid spray.
We do know that from the press conference.
I would assume that it would be a petroleum base so that it would adhere to the walls, and then allow the CS gas to dissipate slowly.
The question arises, though, that if we want to inject CS gas into that building, do we want our intrusion hole to be as small as possible to provide containment and concentration of the gas, or do we want to take out wall sections?
I would think that, logically, we would not want to take out wall sections, however, in reviewing the videos.
It seemed that there was a very clear effort to remove all sections, to knock them down.
Well, they started off that morning with lies.
I mean, at the press conference they told us that they were going to begin to knock the compound down, room by room, and section by section, and slowly cause the Branch Davidian members to move into one small section of the church where they could be More easily contained and where it would be more difficult for them to hold out with so many people in one room.
That was the first thing that they told us.
Later they told us that the tank was knocking holes in the walls in order to inject CS gas.
And we know that it wasn't a gas.
the size of the hoses on the tanks would not allow pumping and dispersion of a gas such
as CS, but would be perfect for the pumping of some type of a liquid.
So your statement that it would be a petroleum-based liquid containing CS gas, which would allow
it to release slowly and stick to the walls and floors, is probably closer to the truth.
We sent people downwind from the church to see if they could smell CS gas, and we sent veterans who knew what CS gas smelled like, and they could not smell anything except petroleum on the wind.
I don't think none either.
They did block off the old Mahia Road area, which is closest upwind to the point.
They extended the blockade that Monday morning.
And we believe the reason that the press has not still even been allowed up to the The location where the church was burned is because they haven't yet destroyed the evidence of the flammable material that was put into the church.
We know that the bright crimson red flames and the intense dark black billowing smoke is the classic signature of a petroleum fire.
We know that our agents who went downwind to try to detect tear gas on the wind, which
was blowing about 30 knots that day, could only smell the smell of petroleum.
They could smell no tear gas whatsoever.
We also know that they knocked so many holes in that building that even if they had been
injecting tear gas, it would have blown right through.
It wouldn't have hurt anybody.
It did provide the adequate circulation for a fire to erupt and destroy the building.
The building was nearly 10 acres on the ground, between 6 and 10 acres.
I don't know the exact footage, but it went to the ground in 32 minutes.
Yes, in fact, the holes that they punched in the walls guaranteed that with a 30-knot
wind, the fire would spread and consume everything that was flammable within a short period of
time, and that's exactly what it did.
I'm looking at the known intrusions into the building where they knocked the panels out.
Those are in alignment with the... They're primarily on the face of the building, the face of the wind.
the west side of the building, the wind was coming from the south west, west south west,
I'm sorry. And so the south end and the west end of the building were those that we know
were perforated quite well. And we also have a video that was a live feed at the time that
shortly after the tank went in and ground the front door and it supported evidence into
the ground. Another tank entered the tower to the right of the front door, the lower
tower, where it was apparently inside.
We see smoke beginning to come out of the second floor window immediately over where the tank was.
As the tank begins to back out, flame bursts from the window directly over the tank.
Now, we're told by the FBI that their sniper through a scope saw this guy making a circular motion, then cupping his hands, and then flames erupted.
Now, I'm sure you've been around the tank, those that have.
No, the tremendous vibration and noise that comes from that tank.
So, worse led to grave doubt.
This very brave person went onto the second floor of that tower portion on the corner, where the supporting walls on both sides had been damaged.
And amidst this noise and trembling and this fear of collapse, was calm enough to spread some material down and then light a match and light the material on fire.
That's what was being told the police by the FBI.
Well, we have trouble with that story.
Well, we have trouble with all of their stories so far.
Everything that we've investigated that they've said has either turned out to be a lie or they themselves have proved to be a lie by reversing their story sometime after they gave the original story to something entirely 100% different, those proving themselves liars.
We know from the interview that I did with Rita Riddle long before the church was burned She came out on March the 21st and I did a one hour interview with her that was broadcast on this show the hour of the time.
And she stated that the tanks had destroyed their kerosene supply by running over their fuel barrels in the back of the church where they had stored their fuel.
And that they had actually very little kerosene inside the church for the lamps.
We also know they didn't need any lamps inside the church because of the tremendously brilliant
floodlights and spotlights that the federal forces were maintaining throughout the night
as a psychological warfare operation, actually, along with the loudspeakers blaring all kinds
of disturbing and ridiculous sounds and music.
So we have been speaking with Rita since the fire.
She was, that morning, on April 19th at approximately 9 o'clock in the morning, was taken down to
the courthouse and charged with conspiracy to murder federal agents.
That was shortly after she spoke with you, Bill, and after many conversations with me, and that was a risk that she recognized she might be facing by speaking with us.
But she did say that she had spoken to people that had come out of the fire when I spoke to her that afternoon.
And that there were lanterns being used in the daytime and they were left burning because there was that need for light inside the hallways.
There were certain areas of the building that were lit all the time.
But didn't we have, you know, we, as I say, we have evidence that there was a tank inside where the fire on the southwestern building began.
Also, I've looked at the films and I'm waiting for copies to arrive from The fire on the second floor, if you think back to what you saw occur then, normally a fire going from room to room would build up within a room and then would crack.
That's correct, but that's not what happened.
It went through the whole building almost instantaneously.
Very smooth roll across the second floor and that floor is compartmentalized.
Each window is to one room.
All those windows.
There were no walls inside the way the fire swept through that second floor.
But there were walls.
There were walls.
There were walls in the areas between each of the windows.
Each was a room.
There was a hallway behind them.
So that fire should have burst from room to room instead of that smooth flow.
That smooth flow would only be indicative of... Well, you're talking about... We're getting into a lot of conjecture here.
We're talking about the second floor, Gary.
The fire had already spread throughout the whole church on the first floor, and it's possible that the fire went up through the ceiling between the first floor and the second floor.
So let's sort of stick to things that we don't have to do so much conjecture, that we can more or less back up with facts.
because i'll tell you what in time to go into a lot of conjecture we're going to
be attacked uh... by by the enemy who who wants the american people to
believe that uh...
uh... that what they're told by the fbi and the batf is true
we know that uh... that they have as the head of the investigating team for the
fire a man who was actually a member of the batf for many years
Well, I know that his wife is currently a secretary for ATF in Houston office.
That's correct.
And he was a member of the BATF for many years.
The question I have about that is why is the FBI and or ATF doing an investigation of the fire when that's been specifically delegated to the Texas Rangers?
The only evidence being turned over to FBI and ATF is that evidence that is Well, they're doing an investigation, Gary, for the same reason that I would try to get away with investigating myself if I were accused of murder.
Absolutely.
Well, sure.
If you're investigating something that happened, the people who were involved in what happened cannot conduct the investigation.
That's not only common sense, but it's a matter of ethics and moral principle and law for since the beginning of this country.
You just don't do that.
And the fact that they're doing it and getting away with it just is another example to me that they're not dealing with the law, that the Constitution is already dead and buried, and the American people are the biggest bunch of stupid sheeple that have ever lived.
They're not questioning anything about this.
They're buying the propaganda.
They swallowed the hook, the line, the sinker, and now they're chewing on the pole.
Well, if you think that, Bill, too, it's rather unfortunate, very possibly the fact that the investigation was going to be handled by the Texas Rangers forced even further the hands of the FBI and ATF to burn the building and destroy the evidence and murder the people inside.
Well, I think that that was what they set out to do to begin with, and I don't think that that had anything to do with who was going to ultimately investigate it.
I believe that that was the whole intention of everything that they've done.
From day one, were you aware that members of Delta Force and British SAS were on scene?
I didn't know about SAS, I knew Delta Force, Steel Team 7, and the FBI hostage rescue team were all present.
Our source is the London Times, March the 21st of this year, where they state in the
Sunday Times in a large article about the Waco massacre that British SAS and Delta forces
were on scene literally from the beginning.
And Janet Reno has verified that Delta forces were there and were advising her, and she
was taking their advice.
She said that in front of the Congressional Investigating Committee.
That's amazing.
These anti-terrorist and hostage rescue teams were so misdirected by the FBI that they refused
to acknowledge that the FBI was actually holding the hostages and the people that needed rescue
were inside of the building and they did not exert their authority properly, nor did they
go after the terrorists, the ATL, who instigated this whole thing in the beginning.
Mary, they wouldn't.
But they all have the same goal, and they're all moving us into a state of fear so that
no one will oppose the ultimate destruction of our Constitution and Bill of Rights overtly.
It's already been done covertly in our merger with other countries of the world under a
one-world government.
These people are all trained and moving us in that direction.
We know that all of these agencies are made up of people who belong to secret societies
and certain religious groups, one of which is one of the largest and wealthiest in this
country, the Mormon Church.
And the largest secret society is the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry.
We know this through our investigations.
We know that these people are of being controlled by these organizations.
We know that the BATF is an unconstitutional organization created with the 18th Amendment to the Constitution, and when prohibition was done away with, they were transferred to the Treasury Department, or the Department of Treasury, and not the United States Treasury.
The Department of Treasury, or the Treasury Department, is actually a private corporation, which comes under the Federal Reserve.
If you want to get right down to it, The people who are pulling off these raids and controlling this country are not part of the United States, are not sworn allegiance to the United States, and Janet Reno is the head of Interpol, which is in this country, which is an international organization, and to be the head of Interpol, she has to agree to forego any allegiance to the United States in her operations as the head of Interpol here.
So we're not talking about Americans.
These people are not Americans.
They don't give a damn about this country or the Constitution, the belief of the large number of sheeple notwithstanding.
Let's go one further.
While I was in Waco, I received in the mail a copy of a public law that was passed, an amendment to the Bretton Woods Agreement, and that it made it fair that the U.S.
Secretary of the Treasury That's correct.
could not be paid by the United States. He could not receive two-count salaries and he would receive his salary
from the International Monetary Fund, the IMF.
So that's correct.
Also working for foreign powers.
That's correct.
Now Bill, you know while I was down there, many people had called me and asked if they should bring their rifles to Waco.
There were also some efforts via the Faction Network to bring an armed militia to Waco.
And in every case I stood against that. I explained to people that we're not ready for an armed militia until we're
ready to accuse the government of sedition.
And when that accusation came, it would be the beginning of something that wouldn't be over until it was over.
I think you can construct what I mean out of that.
Well the purpose of this radio show, and let me make that very clear to you and to everybody listening,
is to wake up the American people so that we can stop what's coming without any bloodshed.
Bloodshed can be averted altogether if enough people wake up to exert the power of the people
and put all these traitors in jail. And that's what they are, literally, is traitors.
Well, I agree with you, but I think at this time, this is April 19th, we must understand one thing.
As you have pointed out, well, let me first back up.
Sedition is joining an organization with the purpose of overthrowing the lawful government.
Now, I accuse the government of the United States of sedition for joining the United Nations And as a member of that organization attempting to overthrow the lawful government of this country.
Well, let's clarify that.
It's not the government that's guilty.
It's individuals within the government who have conspired with others in secret societies and secret organizations to bring this about.
Our constitutional government is not guilty.
You're probably right, but the government as it sits today Any member of that government who is not guilty of sedition needs to come forward and tell us what he knows.
Well, they need to stand up and determine which side they're on and declare it publicly is what they need to do.
I foresee a lot of bloodshed coming in this country if people don't wake up and do what needs to be done legally, exerting the power of the people, and that's the purpose of this program is to is to forego any bloodshed, to stop any bloodshed, to make sure that there's not a revolution in this country and do it the right way.
Now, if it's not done the right way, we all know what's going to happen and doesn't even need to be talked about.
Everybody who understands the Constitution and who's a real patriot knows what's coming and they know what their duty is going to have to be.
We know what a revolution is.
It's a revolt against the government and authority, but there's an old practice in this country that went on for many, many years.
That practice was one where people would come to the aid of their neighbor.
It was practiced in volunteer fire departments where people would risk life and limb to save property and lives.
We had an old concept of posse's where the sheriff would call together a posse to go after those bad elements of society and in an awful pursuit would arrest them.
At that time they were risking their lives as well to bring justice.
Over the years, the administrative agencies have taken that spirit of helpfulness away from us and denied us that gift of helping our neighbors.
Well, I don't believe that, Gary.
I believe that people have just stopped doing what they know is right.
I'm not going to give the sheeple any way out.
They're guilty.
They're sheeple.
They're stupid.
Americans are bringing this upon themselves by abdicating their responsibility by their stupidity, by their ignorance, by their apathy.
I'm not going to let them get away with getting out from under it by rationalization or anything else.
I also have to clear something else.
What's coming is not a revolution.
It will not be a revolution if it happens.
It will be an attempt, a lawful and legal attempt, to restore the Constitution as the supreme law of this land.
I agree with that.
I think that our challenge is going to be coming in the next few weeks.
There are people in Montana that have indicated to me that they are under the understanding that the Church Universal and Triumphant, which owns about 12,000 acres in the Grand Teton Ranch just outside of Livingston, Montana, are anticipating the ground force of 2,000 men with aerial support will be attacking their church in the same manner Waco was.
I hope that this is a rumor.
If it does not, though, I think that we need to understand that the concept of our liberties comes from neighbor helping neighbor.
If there were a fire, we would go to their aid.
If there were a bad guy in their house, we would go in to take the bad guy out.
If they were being attacked by unlawful authorities, we would help them resist that attack.
Now, I've got to interrupt you right now, Gary.
We've discussed the possibility of an attack upon the church, Universal and Triumph, on the show.
We've got to take a break right now.
And when we come back, we'll talk more about this.
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Don't hold me down.
Still the dark has gone around And I'm gone, but the rising tide
Caught the faith that deep in heaven's land Gives a bitter feeling like blood on me
To be with someone like the deer We fought for justice and got forgiven
But to make it free, they threw our heart away And kings fell down and the poor were found
And they're here and they've paid their final And they will shine in the day
When earth is blessed in their grace Hold me now, hold me now
Still the dark has gone around And I'm gone, but the rising tide
Caught the faith that deep in heaven's land That didn't take long.
We're back.
Gary, you were talking about a church in Montana.
Would you care to talk about the identity of that church and just exactly why you think that church may be targeted?
Well, the church is called Church Universal in Triumph, and its leader, Elizabeth Carr Prophet, has spoken in a number of places.
I think she's got a few books out.
They are a church in a sense similar to the Branch Davidian Church and to Randy Weaver
even in that they believe in Yahweh and they celebrate the Sabbath on Saturday.
That seems to be a common denominator in the targets that have been selected recently for
intervention by the government.
There are currently a couple members of the church who were recently charged with firearms
violations.
I think they were convicted, they were minor violations.
I'm not sure if it was just a penalty associated with their convictions.
I think that was the case but I have not had the opportunity to investigate that thoroughly.
But there is rumor as I said spreading up in the Montana area and even Prodigy Computer
Services has carried stories that they are probably next.
It looks like the same set up job, the local television and radio stations and newspapers
doing smear jobs has already begun to occur on them as they proceeded the attack on the
Mount Carmel Church Complex in Waco.
Without a doubt the propaganda machine is turning and they are aimed their weapons directly
at the Church Universal and Triumphant.
Last Friday night we did a show on the hour of the time talking about that and read one
of the articles that has been printed about them.
But, you know, according to the similarities between Church Universal and Triumphant and Branch Davidian, that also fits the entire Jewish religion.
It also fits the Jehovah's Witnesses and a whole bunch of other churches.
Why would they single out the church universal and triumphant and not begin attacking Jewish synagogues or Seventh-day Adventists?
Well, I think that we can look at a logical assumption that if we've got a freestanding church, a sect, per se, that has separated from a mainstream church, as was the case with the Grand Savidians, or an individual such as Randy Weaver that didn't affiliate with any church, Or a church that has just come of its own and lives out in the country and is otherwise isolated itself from the mainstream population.
We have ideal targets to protect our trade of destroying churches.
In other words, they're not mainstream.
They don't have an army of followers.
It's a small organization, and they may have 3,000 or 4,000 members, but they're not all there, and probably would not rise up with arms.
Basically, the pattern that I've found throughout this whole thing is any small religious group with guns, particularly Christians, is that your finding?
Yes, it is.
They do have to have guns.
That's a requisite for HGF to justify.
They don't have to be a legal firearm.
Well, according to the ATF in their first press conference, I mean, they rated Branch Davidian because they heard from a foreign source that they were going to commit suicide.
Well, I think it used to be a capital crime to attempt suicide.
I think we might have that back again.
Well, don't you think it's kind of strange and a little bit ironic that the method of stopping them from committing suicide was to kill them all?
Well, that's a capital offense to attempt suicide.
There's a fellow, and I don't know if Rita mentioned him, that has been critical of the Branch Davidian Church for years.
We found Mark Brough directly connected with the Cult Awareness Network, which is directly connected to the ADL, which is a branch off B'nai B'rith, which was created and is controlled by the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry.
Everything always gets back to the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry in this country.
The reprogrammers, now they accuse coercive programming people.
To me, programming has a connotation of captive audience.
Those people walked voluntarily into the David Corsus Church and voluntarily sat down and listened to David.
In fact, Rita probably pointed this out, that David had a way of putting the scriptures together unlike anyone else.
That's exactly what she said, but all of this has moved because in this country an adult has the right to believe and listen to whoever they want to.
to worship at whatever the altar they want to.
And...
Wait, let's look at C.A.M. though.
They go out and kidnap people and then put them in a motel room and they're a captive
audience for two to three weeks going to an intent.
That's right.
They are actual kidnappers.
And brainwashers is actually what they are and they should all be in jail.
They should know who the good guys are.
The point I'm trying to make is in this country it doesn't matter why an adult follows someone
else.
They have a right to do it and no one has a right to stop them even if they are breaking
the law.
You have the right to arrest them and charge them with the breaking of that law and if
they are convicted of course they have to serve whatever punishment goes along with
that.
But it does not include telling them that they cannot go to this church or that church
or follow this person because he is or is not charismatic or whatever the criteria is.
These are basic, basic losses of basic freedoms in this country.
It's nobody's business why those people were there listening to David Koresh.
It's only their business if they broke a law.
Nobody broke any laws.
Paul had a federal firearms dealer's license and was buying and selling guns.
Some of the guns he sold to some of the male members of the church, including David Koresh, who entered the second article of amendment, all had the right to buy guns if they wanted to.
There was no tremendous cache of weapons.
There were no .50 caliber machine guns.
There were no hand grenades.
There were no rockets.
If there had have been, guess who would have won the war?
With a .50 caliber machine gun, I alone, by myself, could have destroyed all of those Federal troops that were there.
And all the Bradleys.
Unfortunately, if they got the Abrams in, you might have a little bit of a problem.
Well, by the time they got those there, after I'd won the war, I would have been long gone.
Also, the press conference was well within range of both rockets and .50 caliber machine guns.
Not within effective range of a .50 caliber machine gun, but nevertheless, in range.
And when I fought in Vietnam, I saw machine gunners who could have hit that press briefing area and the entire area where the BATF and the FBI were stationed, could have just wiped them all out.
The truth is, there was no evidence, no nothing, pointing to any of the accusations against these people being true.
The local sheriff said that he had personally checked all of their weapons and returned them to the church, and they found nothing illegal about any of them.
That was back in 1987.
Yes.
And all of these allegations about huge stockpiles of weapons isn't true.
The only people that we can determine had any weapons were some of these thirty-some-odd men who were in there.
The rest were all women and children.
Well, my understanding is probably less than ten people picked up firearms to defend the church or would have normally.
That's correct.
Maybe more have than the people I've spoken to.
I don't know for sure, but there were less than ten.
They were proficient or would be considered proficient with the firearms.
Right.
So we've got 10 people or less than 10% and I would say that that's probably less than the average population as far as proficiency in firearms.
They had a relatively low ratio of people proficient in firearms.
Gary, what about the way that these people were tried and convicted and executed by the public, actually, basically?
I mean, that's what it boils down to.
The public believed all the lies.
They were tried.
They were given the evidence of propaganda.
And the evidence, basically, was a bunch of accusations that are not true, including accusations of sexual misconduct, abuse of children.
The President of the United States stood up in a press conference and said that David Koresh was having sex with children.
We know that that was a lie.
The American people bought this.
And allow them to be executed without due process of law, without allowing them to face their accusers.
I understand seven are facing charges of conspiracy to murder a federal agent and now the charges against Rita Riddle were subsequently dropped.
But just in case, let's take Congress and spend tens of millions of dollars to have another trial so everybody in this country knows they're guilty before they're selected for jury.
Oh, absolutely.
Let's make sure that we get some convictions because we've got to justify The in excess of $100 million has been spent on this fiasco.
So far, we've got to justify the 93 deaths or 92 deaths, the murders that occurred.
We've also got to justify the loss of four BATF forces who were killed in the line of duty assaulting that building.
So, you know, Congress is the epitome of a snow job.
They're conditioning all America to accept the allegations of guilt without a trial.
Well, we already know that the verdict was in before the congressional investigation ever started.
We have a tape recording of Deacon Seaney of Arizona stating that Koresh and the people were guilty, that he was crazy, that they were lunatics, and that they deserved to die.
We also now have a tape of Brooks, who's the committee chairman of the investigating committee.
Stating when he thought that the microphones were turned off and that the cameras were not on him, he's talking to the head of the DATF, and he states very clearly on the tape that if it hadn't been him, he would have burned them out in the beginning.
Yeah, yeah.
So we know that the whole thing is rigged from the beginning, and by the way, folks, we will be airing the audio portion of that tape so that you can all hear the committee chairman Brooks makes those statements, and you've already heard Deconcini on this show.
So this is just a show for the cheaple.
That's all it is.
It's song and dance.
It's Barnum and Bailey.
There's a sucker born every minute in a nation or a world of people who will not use their intelligence, or no better than animals who do not have intelligence.
Such people are beasts of burden and stakes on the table by choice and consent.
Quote, unquote.
And for those of you who don't have a copy of my book, that's in chapter one.
We have a quote by Janet Reno.
I don't have the exact wording.
I've read it, but she says something to the effect that this just proves that we need to go after these cults that have too many weapons stockpiled.
Now, back again, is that a setup?
Is that the precursor to the attack on us?
Well, it's a Randy Weaver.
The Randy Weaver episode, we believe, and in fact we have substantial evidence that that was a shock test to see how much the American people would allow.
Beau Grice went across this country and began before July of 1990.
In fact, he was talking about this on the Billy Goodman happening, which went off the air about the last part of 1989.
And he was talking about the fact that he'd received a letter from a guy named Randy Weaver that served with him in Vietnam and that he was afraid that the federal forces were going to come and kill him and his whole family.
So the Weaver thing was being set up in the Patriot movement by Greitz as early as late 1989.
And we believe that that was a test to see if the Patriots would allow them to actually do what they did.
Waco Massacre is just the confirmation of what they learned at the Randy Weaver cabin.
Well, we're going to have the next stepping up.
We're going to go to 2,000 people and 12,000 acres now.
Yeah.
It's going to continue.
If they can win and win quickly, maybe they can justify their actions by the theft or, I'm sorry, forfeiture of that property.
Or maybe they'll get their butts kicked.
Well, let's hope that be the case.
Well, let me tell you something.
For 86 people to stay in a burning building and choose death rather than come out and give up and throw away their principles and their religion, to me, tells me that they're up against some hellacious odds.
I've thought it has occurred to me frequently since April 19th, and that is of April 19, 1775.
in 1975 and all of the first 100 Americans stood against 400 British.
They weren't defending their own property, their own homes, their own lives.
They were buying time for people in Concord to remove the stockpiled weapons so that the
American colonists could fend off the impending attack by the British.
That's correct.
What went through their minds at the point that they stood face to face with 400 of the
Foreigners are the best of the British Empire.
They didn't break and run.
They stood firm.
Well, that's another thing that's ironic about the Waco Massacre.
Patriots like you and me and many others realize what that date meant.
But most Americans have no idea that that is what started the Revolutionary War and created this country.
Now, here's another thought.
A lot of people have asked me this about the people in the complex.
Why didn't they come out?
Why didn't they surrender?
Let's put ourselves in their situation.
They know that they were attacked by the BATF, but that is something to be heard in court.
Now, we heard Rick say on a number of occasions, why don't they just come out and submit themselves to the Bar of Justice?
If they did, here's what would happen.
They knew already that the children would be taken and put in foster homes.
They possibly, over a period of time, even adopted out.
They knew that they would be put in jail and held in jail.
Until they went to trial.
With the complicative issues and the number of the people involved, that that trial would have been 12 to 18 months to the first trial beginning and possibly two to three years from the beginning until the trials were all completed.
At the same time, all the property, they were told as they came out, your property is forfeit.
We own it.
So here's some people that would have lost everything they gained in life.
had they walked out with their hands up as was the only acceptable solution to the FBI.
When talking to Rita Riddle, I think they knew more about the ideological principles
involved with this than anybody is really aware of.
I believe that it was not only the fear of losing everything that caused them to stay inside,
but I believe that they really in their heart knew that they were making a stand for something
that was more important than any property or the fact that they might lose their children.
They were making a stand for the future of freedom in this country and for the right to worship the religion of their choice.
And most of them, see the warrants were only for David Koresh and this other guy named Paul, according to the information that we have.
Now if that's true, then nobody else in the church was wanted or did anything wrong or had any legal charges on them at all and all of this talk about david koresh
holding him hostage is total crap it's total nonsense he could not have held all of
those people hostage even if he had wanted to even if he was a superman and could have
stayed awake every night even if he had three or four other people to help him there's no
way he could have kept all those people in that church my point was that these people
would be submitting to slavery and they stood in that church to the bitter end the fiery
end the same as those hundred men stood at bluxington green
And burnings?
...behind their actions was what caused them to be willing to give their lives for that cause, a cause of freedom and liberty that we profess so much, but very few, the only hundred Americans that exist in this country right now, were burned to death on April 19th or in jail in McLennan County.
The rest of us want to be Americans and should stand up and be Americans, but I think that we've been outshone by the people who stood for our freedom and our liberty on April 19th.
Well, I think you're absolutely correct, but I think everybody's chance to make a decision is quickly coming, and as I've said on this show many, many times, every person in this country is going to have to make a personal decision, and they're going to have to do it very quickly.
They're either going to have to stand up and stop this, help us stop this, or they're going to reach down and voluntarily enslave themselves and put the chains around their own ankles.
I think the point the decision needed to be made was April 19th, and now it's putting it into action.
Well, I don't think it could have been made on April the 19th.
I think it can be made now because I think a lot of people are finally beginning to get
the message.
If they are listening to this show, they are learning a lot of other things besides what
happened on April 19th are coming down.
The new legislation that is in front of Congress that will effectively outlaw any political
protest whatsoever, outlaw any kind of meetings in anybody's home or place of business, outlining
picketing or striking or anything.
I am talking about S-8 and the other bills.
And if anybody gets in a fist fight that was there at your house, whether you knew about it or not, and in fact if anybody even has any reason to believe that the purpose of the meeting might result in a violent act, everybody at that meeting could be charged with terrorism and all of their property can be forfeited.
I know there's a lot of people out there saying, well, that's what they're doing, and that's what should happen to them, but they better stop and think about this, because this can be used against anybody, whether they have any intentions toward violence or not.
It's an effective way to stop any political opposition to what's coming right now.
Well, Bill, I will be back in Waco in the near future, and I will be speaking to the people that came out of the fire.
I will make a point to get with them and see if we can get you in touch with them so that your public, your listening audience, will be able to hear from those inside what their final thoughts were that fateful day.
Well, we're out of time.
Gary, I want to thank you for being a very good, very special guest once again.
I want to thank you for all of your investigations and your reporting on behalf of the Citizens Agency for Joint Intelligence, the Cajun News Service in Waco, Texas.
You've done a wonderful job.
I like to remind our listeners that the investigations that Gary has done have been excellent.
However, we must state that his views and ideas do not necessarily reflect the views and ideas of William Cooper, the Hour of the Time, the Citizens Agency for Joint Intelligence Network, WRNO, their managers, or their owners.
Folks, if you never do anything else that I've ever asked you, please remember Waco, Texas.
This closing number is dedicated to all those who died, were cremated by the federal government, and those who are in jail pending charges.
Good night, and God bless you all.
Amazing grace, how sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like me.
I once was lost but now I find.
Was blind but now I see.
A grace that taught my heart to fear And grace my fears to ease
A grace that made Oh, praise the King!
We are all at once beneath.
Through many dangers, toils and snares, we have already come.
For faith has brought us safe thus far, and faith will lead us home.
When we've been there ten thousand years, By shining hearts so bright, We've always hated to sing God's praise.
And then we must be gone.
Amazing grace, How sweet the sound That saved a wretch like me I'm home, I'm home I'm home, I'm home
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