Candace Owens | Convicting a Netflix Documentary And Maybe Running For President
Candace Owens is back on The Babylon Bee Podcast to talk about her new true crime docuseries Convicting a Murderer on DailyWire+, which aims to correct the Netflix docuseries Making a Murderer. Also, will Candace Owens run for President? The first two episodes of Convicting a Murderer are available to everyone: https://www.dailywire.com/show/convicting-a-murderer#?utm_campaign=convicting&utm_medium=memexp&utm_source=wisepops&utm_content=banner_web_desktop_camshowpage Once you get hooked, you can subscribe to DailyWire+ for the rest. The sponsor of this episode is the KASH FOUNDATION. Kash Patel is the former Chief of Staff of the Secretary of Defense under President Trump. He led the House Intelligence Committee investigation into Russiagate, and saw first-hand the deep state corruption against President Trump. Now, he's created the KASH FOUNDATION to support legal funds that assist whistleblowers within the federal government, victims of deep state corruption and media accountability efforts. Click here to make an URGENT donation: thekashfoundation.com/bee
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We all at a certain point have believed in these narratives, and it's important that we keep going back and unpacking these stories because we can only move forward if people are willing first to exercise humility, to go back and say, I got this wrong.
Also, to recognize why it is, to recognize who the true enemy is when we are so divided on these cases.
And the answer is the media.
You know, it's about division.
And now it's time for another interview on the Babylon Bee Podcast.
Welcome, Candace, to the Babylon Bee Podcast Interview Show.
It's really nice to have you on today.
Thank you guys for having me.
Of course.
I mean, it's really an honor to talk to you.
You're kind of a big deal.
So it's really nice to get a chance to sit down with you.
How's it going?
I used to have a shirt.
I used to have a shirt that said, I'm kind of a big deal because every time I hear, I only think about Will Farrell's movie.
Yes.
I'm kind of a big deal.
I'm kind of a big deal.
Yeah.
Every time I hear that, it makes me chuckle.
But it was from Abercrombie.
And I was, I think, in eighth grade.
Oh, my gosh.
My girlfriend in high school worked at Abercrombie.
Anyway.
Everyone's girlfriend in high school worked at Abercrombie.
I know.
I couldn't get a job there because I wasn't good enough looking.
Oh.
Yeah.
You didn't have the look.
Yeah.
It's like the whole look.
Yeah.
Anyway, so we should talk about your show.
How about that?
Yeah, let's do that.
Did you ever see Making a Murderer on Netflix?
Is that something you ever saw?
Are you talking to me?
Yes.
Yeah, I wasn't sure if you were just asking them because anybody ever seen it.
Yeah, I saw, yeah, the entire series.
Yeah, Steve is totally innocent, right?
Totally innocent.
And everything that Netflix tells us is absolutely the truth.
Oh, that's funny.
Well, so you're starting, you are starring in a new Daily Wire series, Convicting a Murder, as a response to Making a Murderer.
It's a revision, though.
This is a response.
And we're very excited.
I watched the original show years ago.
Did you watch it years ago, Emma?
I watched part of it recently.
And then watching it and then watching, I kind of compared them side by side.
So I'd watch their show and I'd hear, you know, oh, he kind of threw a cat over a fire.
And then I would watch Convicting a Murder.
And it's, no, he poured gasoline on a cat and threw a cat into the fire.
And that's a little different.
And then forced somebody else to throw a cat on a fire.
Yeah.
And then when the cat survived it, then, you know, decided to pour more gasoline on it so that it would die.
And so that he did that so it wouldn't suffer.
Really, really bizarre stuff.
And I'm chuckling not because of what happened to the cat, but just the idea that the Netflix series tried to water that down.
Right.
Like torturing animals to water it down.
Yes, that they can.
Right next to their series called Don't F with the Cats.
I know.
Yeah, which I was obsessed with also.
And I also am obsessed with cats, period.
So this was so many people.
We've been doing so much press and people were asking me, you know, what really, as you were working on convicting a murderer, stuck with you in the Stephen Avery story.
And I really said it was the cat thing.
It was just something about the human being or the lack of a human being that it takes to torture an innocent pet.
And it's not even like it was a stray animal.
Not that that would be any better, but the idea of taking your family pet, right?
So this family pet that is known to you and just getting, having a couple of drinks and deciding that you're going to douse it in gasoline and throw it into fire is just to me, I don't know, that person is capable of anything.
And that's not even me just saying that because I have a strange affinity for cats, but also because we know that when we look at the psychological profiles of serial killers, that typically in their youth, they start off with torturing animals.
And we also talked to Stephen Avery's brother and talked about how when he got mad at the dog, the dog got away.
He then tied the dog to a pickup truck and dragged it down the street.
This is just not normal human behavior.
It's not normal.
You know, can we expect a Candace Owens show in response to Don't F with Cats called F with Cats?
F with F.
No, it definitely don't F with cats.
Don't F with Cats too.
Because they will always turn women into the CIA is what the lesson of don't F with cats is also convicting.
It's like when I found out about this cat, I was just on a war path.
Totally.
No, that was the big thing for me, too.
I heard that I'm like, people that are cruel to animals are cruel to people too.
That's one of those things.
And they always graduate up, right?
So tell us about Steve Avery just a little bit, if you can give us a little background for the people that don't know.
Yeah, so if people did not watch the Making a Murderer series, it instantly kind of became just cult.
And it was because really it was the first time that Netflix had dabbled into doing a docuseries.
Maybe people were at home.
It was the holiday.
And it was building upon at the same time, it sort of hit a perfect storm, this sort of anti-police sentiment that was building in America.
I mean, this was in 2015.
BLM was just finding its footing.
And I think that in terms of Netflix being able to go out there and these documentary makers being able to sell this to the wider public and to late night talk series and the mainstream media, it just fit perfectly into this narrative.
So Stephen Avery is a guy who, just to be clear, did actually get wrongly convicted once in his life.
He was serving a prison sentence for 12 years for the sexual assault and the attempted murder of a young woman who survived the attack.
And this is not the fault of the police by any means.
She survived the attack.
They brought a bunch of men, they lined them up, and she pointed to Stephen Avery and he said, he's the one that did it.
And at this time, there was no DNA evidence available.
They collected the samples, but they had no way to test it.
And so they put him into prison for 12 years.
And he actually hadn't committed that crime.
Forensics changes, technology goes forward, and they realize they have the wrong man in prison and they released him.
And so you instantly, by the way, anytime that any of us hear a story, the concept of being put in prison for something that you didn't do is terrifying, right?
So that the documentary makers were reading the news one day.
This guy who just got out of prison two years prior, something that he didn't do, has now been arrested again and is under suspicion for a murder of another young woman.
And so they got interested in this story, probably meaningfully, because what are the chances that lightning hits twice?
I mean, does this guy have terrible luck?
And then when they went down there and they learned all of the facts regarding this murder, and as they started creating a documentary, I think they realized that the magic was in people believing that somehow he was being framed for this second murder.
I mean, for this first murder, but being framed because he was suing the county for $36 million for his wrongful conviction.
So it was just sort of this perfect setup narrative.
And they were willing to not present all of the facts and to sort of trample over this woman who, by the way, was killed horrifically by Stephen Avery.
We're talking about a woman that was, you know, raped by two different men.
She was stabbed.
She was shot.
She was burned.
And they didn't care.
You know, there's no question that they didn't care because they kind of had their buttoned up story.
And as I said, the mainstream media instantly got behind it with this, like, well, you never thought it could happen to white people.
I'm doing Trevor Noah's voice because he had the documentary makers on right.
I feel like I have a really good Trevor.
I don't know.
It just keeps coming out.
I'm like, yeah, I sound like this guy.
You white people, you were sitting back thinking, oh, this couldn't possibly be happening.
And then Stephen Avery comes around and you realize, and this is like his whole shtick.
You know, like that, yes, the system is corrupt.
And so, yeah, it became an absolute phenomenon.
And I mean, it wasn't just confined to America.
It was, it was worldwide.
The police officers were getting threats from people in Norway when this series dropped, which obviously has a lot of really important facts.
You don't want to piss.
You got to get real fired up.
The Vikings coming after you.
Don't mess with the Norwegians or the Australians.
They're a bunch of convicts down there, too.
Yeah.
So millions of people watch this documentary, and you're saying that millions of people got it wrong.
Isn't this a demonstration?
Well, I watched it.
I remember watching it and I remember every episode going, this is crazy.
These people totally set this guy up.
And I remember watching like the blood vial and all the stuff that came out.
In the first episode of Making a Murderer, what stuck with me is that they mentioned that he has an IQ of 70.
And so I'm like, okay, he's really dumb.
He wouldn't think it through.
He wouldn't think.
What's your IQ?
What's the above 70?
Candace, what's your IQ?
Prove it.
Prove it.
I hope it's above 70.
Do you guys know your IQs, by the way?
No, I don't know.
And I don't want to know because I'll be ashamed about it.
But does not know your IQ make you low IQ?
Yeah.
You know, I have street smarts.
So it makes up for it.
I'm good at spatial relationships.
Anyway.
But people with people who are dumb don't think through potential consequences.
So it makes more sense that he just got out of prison and two years later, he's going to do something in the moment that satisfies, you know, a terrible urge.
But he's not thinking, okay, I'm going to go back to prison.
Even though I just spent 20 years or 18 years in prison, 12 of those years for something that he didn't do.
So that kind of frames it as that he could potentially be the guy.
That's actually funny because people don't consider that.
Are criminals known to be extraordinarily high IQ individuals usually?
No, absolutely not.
They tend to be drug addicts.
They tend to be alcoholics.
They tend to do things impulsively.
And they tend to have a really long criminal history.
And in the circumstances, Stephen Avery, literally from his Juvie record, I had a packet thick of all the crimes that he had committed starting when he was juvenile, petty crimes, break-ins, moving up to burglary, moving up to violence.
Actually, what is shown in our documentary is he was also serving.
He was in prison for 18 years.
People think he was for 18 years for something that he didn't do.
No, six of those years were actually for something that he did do, which was violent towards a woman, a married cousin in his family.
He got his rifle, ordered her out of the car while she had her toddler in her car, told her to get in because he heard that she was talking smack about him.
Is that the normal behavior of a person that has a high IQ?
Do you go try to kill someone because they're talking smack about you?
And he ended up getting six years for that.
She fortunately survived because she had the toddler in the car and she begged and pleaded with him to just let her drop the toddler off before he was going to abduct her and take her wherever.
And he had a second thought and turned around because he didn't expect this disruption in his plans.
And we talk about his history of abusing women.
And so all of these things and showing the audio, even of his family, you're talking about a family that has a steep history of pedophilia, of incest that was going on in that family and showing their arrest records, whereas Netflix decided to present them as this loving family that was just so happy to have their uncle, brother, sibling back.
You know, it's far be it.
Yes, it is correct.
These are low IQ individuals.
That does not accept them from this crime, as you mentioned.
It actually further points the finger that people do things when they're not very smart.
Criminals tend to be very low IQ because why would you think you could get away with these things unless you are exceptionally low IQ?
So, Candace, I have a question for you.
What's with Wisconsin?
Why are all these people in Wisconsin?
that's what I want to know.
You know, it's really cold in the winter time and I get angry when I'm super, super cold and maybe it has something to do with that.
But yeah, I don't, I promise you every documentary I work on with Daily Wire, they send me to the coldest places.
I don't know what's going on.
I'm starting to think if there's a conspiracy going on because when I did BLM, I was in Minnesota and it must have been, it was the coldest I've ever been in my life until I went out to Wisconsin and I my face was frozen.
Like I've never had Botox and I'm telling you, after I was out shooting this thing, I was like, I couldn't move my face.
It was a little bit more.
I actually felt younger.
Your nose hairs start to freeze and like you can, it like feels weird in your nose.
That's how cold it is.
It hurts.
It hurts in your nose.
Yes.
If you're going to riot in the cold, you know, that's kind of commendable.
Yeah, that's pretty amazing.
There's people out there with picket signs.
That's why all the protests during 2020 were in the summer because it's better weather to go protesting.
They play video games in the wintertime.
So do you think and do drugs?
So do your documentary also shows everything that the Netflix series left out.
But do you think it will paint?
Do you think their goal was to paint a bad picture of the police officers?
I think their goal was to make money.
And I don't think they cared one way or the other.
And I think the people that picked it up, like the Trevor Noah's, miraculously Alec Baldwin, who update has actually killed someone as he was defending this guy who killed someone.
The world works in mysterious ways.
I think those individuals, the Hollywoods.
Yeah, exactly.
We have an Alec Baldwin rule around here.
You're not allowed to point guns at anyone else.
That's a very good rule to have.
But yes, it's all the usual suspects that we're getting behind Stephen Avery and the series, you know, Chrissy Tee and Alec Baldwin, Trevor Noah, which just lets you know that like if they're ever insisting, like if Alec Baldwin is ever insisting that anybody is innocent, including himself, they most definitely are guilty.
I think that's kind of what we have come to understand.
And but what's really sad to think about, though, is that this woman, like I said, was horrifically killed.
And then her family was stalked and harassed because celebrities and late night talk show hosts were feeding this conspiracy theory.
I mean, people thought that she was still alive.
I mean, wild conspiracy theories, which we show in the docu series, that she was like one with the cows, that they could use the cows to trace her to Mexico.
I mean, they were writing love songs and sonnets, and he's got, I mean, boohoo people crying outside, women that wanted to marry him, marry his nephew, Brennan Dassey.
He's got fiancés.
He's the man in prison.
They turned this man who is such a despicable, contemptible human being, really, truly the most contemptible human being, which I think we illustrate very clearly in this docu series, into a celebrity.
You know, awful to think about it.
It's so crazy that this happens in general.
I think when we turn these really bad people and women are writing him letters and wanting to get married and all these types of people.
There's always that, you know, even Ted Bundy or all those people in prison, they always get love letters.
Yeah.
You know, they're sure Alex Martin.
They're all low IQs.
Yeah, exactly.
The people probably also have low IQs.
And they're just emotionally persuaded.
And I think what was interesting to me about this particular case was it wasn't divided along political lines.
It wasn't like, oh, the left thought this and the right thought this.
Everyone kind of thought because of the Netflix presentation, it was kind of, like I said, their first foray into a docu series that he was plausibly innocent, right?
So it's interesting to unpack.
I think now, obviously, we have lost a lot of trust in the media since 2015.
And we ask those questions.
Now, now Netflix is softening Jeffrey Dahmer, the Central Park V. They're all guilty and awful.
This is kind of what Netflix does.
But it is interesting to re-examine propaganda that we all fell for, to go back and just say, wow, how long has this really been going on?
And how long have media companies like Netflix been being used as a propaganda arm, you know, to push a political philosophy of the day?
And I think the answer is forever.
It's why they become so big.
Well, it seems like in the last maybe 10, 15 years, there's been a retooling and retelling of stories of villains, like recasting villains as sympathetic figures, even in Disney stories.
So it starts like with Maleficent and these kinds of movies where it kind of, oh, well, you can't, you don't understand her situation.
She isn't evil.
Right.
She can't be evil because evil doesn't exist, right?
She's too beautiful to be evil.
Well, she is beautiful.
But the philosophy, though, is that evil doesn't exist.
It's only as a result of your circumstances.
So they can justify all kinds of bad behaviors.
He's a joker.
Yeah.
You know, he's just lonely.
He's just a lonely kind of.
And the girl doesn't like him back.
And that's, you know, sad.
There has been this sort of recasting as the villain, as the hero.
And the fact that there's still an appetite for it, you know, my first documentary was on George Floyd.
And what I said in the very beginning is true.
You can say that you think police officers did some things wrong, whatever you want to say about that.
But you should also think that it is completely inappropriate that children are walking around with George Floyd on their shirts like he was Jesus Christ, that people were getting baptized in George Floyd Square, knowing what his history was, knowing how many people he victimized while he was alive, knowing how horrific and violent those crimes were.
What are you doing?
There's no reason to do this.
You should be stopping short of this.
But there is this really bizarre psychological phenomenon that's happened.
And it is truly, you can pinpoint the media as having been around it, that people want to support criminality.
They want to believe that the victims are the oppressors, which is completely crazy.
Yeah, it does seem like it's sort of the pathologizing of sin.
I think on like a theology, in a theological term, it's the pathologizing of sin, the justification of sin and bad behavior.
And then you kind of throw this kind of thin neo-Marxist veneer over everything where you get the hierarchy based on circumstances so you can justify bad behavior and you get all these riots and all this stuff.
It's just, it's really not the way society is going to work well.
I don't know about you guys, but I don't think it's going to work that way.
Yeah, I don't think that something happens in Minnesota and I just have a right as a black person to just like burst into Target and grab a flat screen TV, right?
But not only do people say that I do have that right, that's being reinforced in the media.
The media is saying, oh, well, like, you know, they're just upset because this person died.
It's like, that's crazy.
And what that does is it produces more criminals because you're telling them that it's not their fault, that their bad behavior can eventually be justified, that the villain can eventually be understood.
And we're in a deep rut.
So it's always been important for me to sort of unpack that and everything that I do.
And people were like, why'd you get interest in this project?
You know, because this has been going on for a really long time.
And I think for the first time, people are beginning to wake up to how easy we all can be manipulated.
And I say no one is above it.
There are things that I found out recently that I believed my whole life.
One instance being the Matt Laramie project, which was such a propagandist effort when I was in high school, I actually thought Matt Laramie was killed because he was gay.
And then Matt Walsh sent one tweet and like completely blew my mind.
And then I looked further into it and I was like, are you kidding me?
I had no idea he was like a prostitute, that he it was a drug deal gone bad, that they wanted his, I mean, crazy.
That's that, there's an entire play about it.
There's a musical is like it was in my school when I was in high school.
So we were brainwashed that this kid was just killed simply for being a homosexual.
But again, they seized on something that happened and they said, how can we further our political agenda, our LBGTQ agenda?
And that's what happened with the Matt Laramie Project.
And so I just woke up to that literally this year.
I had no idea.
So my whole life, I bought into the Matt Laramie Project.
So when I talk to people, I'm like, I'm not saying this as if, oh, I'm just so smart and above you that I can see through the cracks.
We all at a certain point have believed in these narratives.
And it's important that we keep going back and unpacking these stories.
As I did a whole episode of my podcast on Matt Laramie, I was committed to the George Floyd, showing everybody the truth about how much functional he was on that day and his past criminality, because we can only move forward if people are willing first to exercise humility, to go back and say, I got this wrong, right?
And I'm willing to say that I was wrong and move on, but also to recognize why it is, to recognize who the true enemy is when we are so divided on these cases.
And the answer is the media.
You know, it's about division.
And you're not allowed to take time and think about it.
George Floyd happened and you weren't allowed to, you know, research or take times.
Post a black square or you're racist.
Post something, you know, put your hashtag out.
Otherwise, you're racist immediately.
That's or you wouldn't think it through if it was a white guy.
It's like, okay, well, you know, I'm thinking it through with Stephen Avery.
So, but that's not just, yeah.
You're not the only one.
That's part of it.
It's like the figurative gun to your head when these things happen.
Right.
You know, I'm interested to know, this is one of the things about the show that I thought was fascinating.
And I think in the original series, it was kind of the linchpin of the whole story.
The placing of the blood, the bullets, all that kind of stuff, the key.
These were strange, strange things.
And like, I don't, I mean, I watched, I didn't watch the entire series.
So I like, I watched like half of it.
And so I want to know what you think about those things.
I don't know if I want to.
We can unpack all of it.
Yeah, we got to watch all of it.
I mean, you're even going to see that Netflix intentionally didn't even close on some of it because it was such BS.
I mean, there are things that not even Stephen Avery's defense was trying to insinuate that Netflix went as far as to insinuate, like the blood vial.
That was something that Stephen Avery's defense team didn't even touch because it was so, the Netflix narrative was so bonkers and crazy that even people that radically believed that Stephen Avery was not guilty were like, oh, actually, I then found out by talking to my nurse friend that this is like completely normal.
And what's really interesting is just the leaps and bounds that you would have to go through to believe in your head, which would be that the police officers were so bent out of shape about a $36 million lawsuit that probably would have been very difficult for Stephen Avery to win because you would have to prove that they intentionally put him into prison and knew that this guy hadn't done it.
And they didn't, obviously.
The woman pointed him out in the lineup.
She said, this guy did this to me.
And that in order to avoid the plausibility that he might win this lawsuit, which he definitely probably was not going to win, that they decided to kill a woman, right?
Or as soon as a woman that they found out was killed, they grabbed her body, planted it on the Avery property, found some of his blood.
I mean, it's a lot.
It's a lot that had to happen in 24 hours.
I mean, that's pretty crazy in this tiny little town in Manitowoc County that these police officers would engage in all of this because they just were like, I don't even want to see this lawsuit see a lot of day in court.
Really, really interesting study in what we are willing to do when conspiracy theories go too far and how unwilling we are to see what is so obviously in front of you.
To kind of take you through like all of the things that would have had to happen that they polluted the jury, that the jury of his peers were also in on it.
Everybody was in on it because they just did not even want to see this lawsuit go forward in the courtroom, which probably Stephen Avery would have lost.
Well, it is Wisconsin.
I mean, we got to remember a lot of weird stuff happens in Wisconsin.
You're just against Wisconsin.
I'm sorry.
If there's anyone in the water, they have cheese there.
That's all I got.
By the way, the cheese is delicious.
Like, I ate so many.
They're called cheese curds.
Phenomenal.
The people are so kind out there.
It's like incredible.
And every restaurant has fried cheese curds.
And I ate way too many.
I was very happy eating the cheese curds.
I'm like very pregnant right now.
And I was pregnant when I was shooting this.
And I just want to shout out Wisconsin for the cheese curds.
It feels appropriate to do it.
Balance out all that hate from Jared.
How are you very pregnant versus just regular pregnant?
Yeah, very pregnant just from like your past 30 weeks.
Oh, I see.
Okay, I got you now.
Yeah.
I got you.
And then you're just pregnant when like you're just, you know, the rest of the time, like early on, you're just like, eh, I'm pregnant, but very pregnant when you trip past 30 weeks, suddenly, like you put a very there.
Well, let me just say this too.
I do apologize to Wisconsin folks.
I love you and I think it's you're amazing.
I'm a Wisconsin hater.
I am not.
No, they don't want you.
I am not.
I just wanted to ask those questions.
I do have a question for you, though.
What was what for you personally is the absolute craziest part of this story?
The cat.
The cat.
I don't know.
I just, it's just, and I'm a crazy cat lady, whatever.
I love cats, but the cat thing was absolutely bonkers to me.
And there's way more violent things that he's done, which we unearthed.
But I don't know.
I am sticking to the beginning of what I said.
It's the don't F with cats thing with me.
Like, and I think a lot of people out there will feel that once they see this.
Nope.
Put him away.
He did it.
I don't need to see any more evidence.
Yeah, what a jerk, man.
So the first three episodes are free, and then the rest, yeah, 10 episodes are for subscribers.
Yep, you can watch if you want on YouTube, the first episode's up there.
Just type in convicting a murderer.
It will pop right up.
And then if you want to watch the second or third episode, it is free.
Just go to dailywireplus.com.
You can check it out there.
And I have no doubt, but after you watch the first two episodes, you're going to be hooked and you're going to binge the rest of them and subscribe to Daily Wire Plus because it's good.
I mean, we did really good work.
I'm really proud of what we've done.
And it's nice to foray into something that's cultural, like purely cultural and not so political.
Speaking of not doing political questions, what are your thoughts on the Republican debates and the Trump indictments?
I actually went to the Republican debates.
They were, it was fun.
I was going to say, I did not expect it to be that fiery with people that were on stage.
They were all throwing.
I mean, I didn't expect Pence to get all fired up and go after Vivek.
I mean, it was wild.
What do you think of Vivek?
I like Vivek.
And it's funny because I had him on my show.
I offered every opportunity for every candidate to come on the show.
Vivek is working harder, is working harder than anybody else in the field.
There's no question.
He's doing every single podcast, big and small, really trying to get his name out there.
And he was polling at less than 1% when I had him.
Didn't know what to think about him.
And I genuinely felt so refreshed by the conversation.
It was just something different.
And I think I was getting a little bit of fatigue in the Trump versus DeSantis war.
And I just have not been interested in it.
You know, really, to be honest, it's gotten very nasty.
And I'm just personally, I can't get enough of it.
It's just, yeah, we're either one way or the other.
I'm just like, goodness.
Okay.
And it was happening.
It's a win-win either way in my mind.
You know, DeSantis.
Trump wins.
That to me is a win-win.
I like that Chris Christie was there.
I don't know why he was there, but it was fun.
But I liked him there.
He was a cartoon character.
Yeah.
I always have to remind myself he's a man.
I always say that.
There's something about him where you're just like, Chris Christie needed to be there.
He needed to be yelling.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You're here, but I'm glad you're here.
Yeah, because he was fun with Vivek.
It was like, you know, he was the only one who could, who was a funny bone.
Yeah.
You know, it was kind of funny.
Yeah.
He doesn't try and be funny.
He's just really angry.
You know, yeah, Mike Pence is.
Really angry, kind of hungry.
Mike Pence tries to, you know, make a joke back at Vivek.
It's painful.
Well, he was just kind of mean, you know, like just kind of mean.
He can't do it.
He looks like Buzz Lightyear.
I don't know why he's running too, but yeah, he was.
I was very surprised by Pence's attacks on Vivek.
It did seem like he was saying everything that DeSantis wanted to say in a weird way.
I was like, did you guys like team up and like go like, all right, you say it.
I can't.
I don't know.
But yeah, I thought with it in the absence of Trump that they would be quite boring or maybe not boring, but academic, I think is probably a better word for it.
And it was just bombs the entire time.
It was amazing.
I absolutely loved it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It was just like a wrap battle.
That's a wrap battle.
Oh, man.
That's a great idea for a sketch.
That's a good idea for a sketch.
It was great.
Gosh, that's amazing.
So I do have a question too.
Are you going to ever run for president?
Because I think you'd make a great president personally.
I think right now I'm running after toddlers.
I'm going to be joining the three under three party.
I like what I do.
I like that my life is here in Nashville and Tennessee.
I don't have the ego for politics right now.
I should say either the ego or feeling like if the country had absolutely no options, that it would be, it would be a sacrifice.
And I very much view that as being a sacrifice where I think everybody else is in it because they just like want their name on the ballot.
And I'm just, I don't, I don't have that ego.
So, but if I really thought there were no other options and I needed to step up and serve my country, I would do it.
But right now, I'm very happy as a mother, a wife, a podcast host, getting into culture.
And I think that I'm more impactful influencing culture.
I think it's more impactful for me to be a voice that's on social media than if I was, you know, in the White House.
So yeah, we're in a cultural war and I'm writing culture.
So you are absolutely doing that.
We're part of that war and we're loving it and we love what you do.
We're huge fans over here at the Bee and we really, really appreciate you coming on today and hanging out with us.
Looking forward to this.
Convicting a murderer, guys, check it out.
It's going to be a great show.
We've seen a big part of it and it's really great.
You guys are going to love it.
It's just going to be like the first time you watch the documentary and you're like, I got to see one more episode.
I got to see one more episode.
So go on there, become a Daily Wire subscriber and subscribe to the Babylon Bee.