Dave Ramsey tells The Babylon Bee how to buy things you don't need with money you don't have to impress people you don't like. He talks about when is it okay to use a credit card, self-made millionaires in America, and answers the Bee's famous ten questions. This episode is brought to you by our amazing sponsors: Alliance Defending Freedom - go to https://adflegal.org/donate to start your gift today and make freedom a part of your monthly budget. Tuttle Twins- Your gift will empower a future generation of students to fight for our values and give young people an alternative to socialism they are taught in classrooms: https://secure.libertas.org/ramsey PublicSq- Take control of your money by putting purpose behind every dollar you spend. Download the PublicSq app today or visit https://publicsq.com/ Keep up with Dave Ramsey: https://ramseysolutions.com Watch the podcast ad-free and gain access to exclusive podcast and video content by signing up at https://babylonbee.com/plans?utm_source=YT&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=description
And now it's time for another interview on the Babylon Bee Podcast.
Welcome to the Babylon Bee Interview Show.
We're here with our editor-in-chief, Kyle Mann, and our special guest, Dave Ramsey.
Dave, thank you so much for having us.
We're so happy to be here.
Well, I'm honored to be.
I'm on the B. I've been on the B a couple of times and some of them are funny and some of them, but yeah, you guys are pretty nice to me.
You've been pretty kind to me, as opposed to some of my friends who you're just completely trash.
We know you usually don't get this kind of exposure, so we just want you to feel comfortable and don't feel too nervous speaking to our large podcast audience.
I'll try to behave.
Breathe.
Just take a breath, and it's going to be all right.
So we wanted to start out by asking you a few questions.
All right.
You say it's never okay to use a credit card, but we have some scenarios that we think we can get you to say yes.
In that situation, it would be okay.
32 years people have been trying this on the corner.
Okay, well, we're going to give it a try.
Yeah, this is this segment is called Butt Dave.
Butt Dave.
But Dave.
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Now, we know that's Dave Ramsey approved.
This has not actually been approved by Dave Ritzy.
It's a Butt Dave segment.
Okay, so the first one is the new Zelda game just came out for the Nintendo Switch.
And you won't have the cash to buy it for six more days.
I'm such a boomer.
I don't know what a Nintendo Switch is, and I don't know what Zelda is.
So I'm thinking no.
So that's not all right.
Apparently, it's not a necessity, or I would know what it is.
Okay.
I've got one that may be more compelling.
Your pet ferret just broke his tail.
The veterinarian says you have to pay $6,000 for the splint, otherwise your pet ferret dies.
You don't have any money.
Can you put that on a credit card?
That's so sad for that ferret.
He's going to let the ferret die.
Is he going to let the ferret die?
He says ferret.
Yeah, I'm sad.
I'm sort of sad, but it's awful.
All right.
Well, that one didn't work.
He let the ferret die.
All right.
So Jesus himself appears to you in evasion.
We're going to play the Jesus card.
Okay.
And he says, you know what, Dave?
It's all right.
You can use a credit card.
Just this one time.
Yeah.
I would worry if that was last night's pizza or actually Jesus because I'm one of those old-fashioned Christians that believes he's never inconsistent with his word.
It's just a bad burrito.
You know, I've had a lot of things God told me until I found out later it was last night's pizza and stupid butt stuff I've done and blame God on it and it wasn't his fault.
And yeah, so I wouldn't do that one either.
So it's an imposter.
This is good.
He's consistent so far, but I've got a real kicker for him.
Okay.
Just keep pushing the edge here.
You're sick and tired of being sick and tired.
You're at rock bottom.
No money left.
Can you use a credit card for a one-year subscription to Financial Peace University?
It's been tried before.
The problem is we don't take credit cards.
So, yeah, we only take debit cards and, you know, other methodologies of collecting cash.
But, yeah, we don't do it.
That was a big thing.
You know, when we started it, it was like people would, when they, we, for a long time, wouldn't take even a debit card because everybody was accusing us of being hypocrites, you know.
And they're looking for a reason to be pissed off at us so they don't have to do our stuff because it's hard.
You know, and that's part of the lean in on it.
But I got too serious.
Sorry about that.
No, it's all good, man.
Just don't be nervous.
All right.
Be comfortable.
All right.
I'll try.
So you fall asleep on the couch.
You know, maybe you had a nice cigar and you're relaxing and you fall asleep on the couch and the TV's on.
You then wake up at 3 in the morning and there's a guy on TV that's telling you about this great new product that slices and dices and chops up vegetables, meats, whatever you want.
And it's only 36 easy payments of $19.99.
Of course, yeah.
Who's that?
ShamWow, for sure. Yeah, would that be an exception to the... That absolutely is not.
It sounds like a nightmare than an exception.
Now, what about this?
This one should be compelling to you.
Okay.
Getting a credit card to stay one step ahead of the payments that are due from the other credit card companies that you owe credit card debt to.
Yeah, that sounds sustainable, doesn't it?
He said sarcastically.
We're not doing good here, guys.
We're over six or seven.
We really need to kick it up a notch here.
Well, it's just the problem is I'm a hardhead, so I'm stuck on it.
My preacher told me one time, he said, you know, Ramsey, you just say the same thing over and over and over again.
I said, so do you.
Well, it's not a bad thing for a preacher.
Yeah, not a bad thing for me.
It's working out.
Well, for you either.
And you don't have a credit card.
No, I've got two debit cards in my pocket and two other pieces of plastic would be my handgun carry permit and my driver's license.
All right.
That's it.
And a whole bunch of redneck emergency fund, which is called Benjamin Franklin's.
You know what?
They're accepted almost everywhere.
Oh, yeah.
Almost.
They're pretty crazy.
I don't know.
Nowadays I go to these places and it's no cash.
Yeah, because they're trying to keep their employees from stealing.
So they've gone to full digital.
It's a thing.
It's a thing.
It's been an interesting.
When we started all this, there weren't debit cards.
We're telling people to cut up their credit cards and there was no way to do the stuff that credit cards do.
Now debit card does everything credit card does.
So you really got no stupid excuse except I don't really just want to do it.
You know, that's the only excuse you've got nowadays.
But back in those days, we had to talk people into really being extremely weird.
So we did it a little bit back in those days, but it's a lot easier to do it with a debit card.
Absolutely.
When's the last time you used a credit card?
Well, I haven't had one since I went bankrupt because right after they wouldn't give me one to start with back in those days.
And so I was 28.
So it's over 30 years.
I'm 60, getting ready to be 63, so whatever that is.
Yeah, so if you touched one, your hand would like shrivel up and cash on fire.
A lot of hissing and your head spinning around.
You hear Charlton Heston in the background.
No, no, I, you know, we have a lot of fun stories with it.
Like, you know, we have friends and family that don't do a thing, I say.
And so, you know, we're out to eat and they're like, I'm paying with a credit card.
I'm like, you're paying.
So you can do whatever you want.
So, but yeah, it just comes up for you.
You just call them stupid.
You just call them stupid, right?
Yeah, you're just stupid.
Bino meal, yeah.
Well, you call a lot of people stupid in your life.
You're probably the person who's called more people stupid than anybody else.
You know, and I get accused of that, but I think most of the time, maybe not every time, but most of the time I'm calling what they're doing is stupid.
That is stupid.
Not you are stupid.
You know, you bought that car.
That was really stupid.
I don't say you're really stupid very often.
I might have done it because sometimes I get wired up or caffeined up or whatever.
But yeah, but I've been stupid, and everybody knows that.
I'm not afraid to share that I've been stupid with zeros on the end.
So anything anybody's done that's dumb.
I've probably done it dumber.
But it doesn't mean you have to, just because you've done stupid doesn't mean you have to stay in it and be stupid.
But yeah, it's a little harsh for some people's taste.
So that's where the hater aid comes out.
In the middle of a radio show call, when someone calls in, triple eight eight two five five two two five.
I've got it in my head because I've listened to so much.
Oh, thank you.
When someone open fucking.
That's a real suck up, you know.
Yeah, that's pretty strong right there.
That's a strong game.
When someone calls in, how do you make that split-second decision?
Is it based on their attitude or their word choice as to whether you're going to give them tough luff or gentle encouragement?
Again, if I'm doing it right, and if the Ramsey personality sitting beside me is doing it right, this is how they're trained to.
We're not fatigued before we sit down at the microphone because it's live and we're not caffeinated to where we're and so trying to kill somebody.
But what we're listening for is, you know, if someone's earnestly asking a question and they do not have the background of where we're coming from, then to pounce on them would be not only rude, but also ineffective from a persuasion standpoint because you just push them back rather than giving the reason.
So you'll hear us, you know, we'll start unpacking and teaching and trying to pull that new person in.
But the guy that calls up and he goes, you know, I've listened to you for eight years.
I love your stuff.
I've been through Financial Peace University four times.
I leased a car last week and I refuse to pay off my student loan debt because Biden's going to pay it off.
Well, expect that guy to get his head taken off.
I mean, because you just walked into the tiger's cage and threw meat.
I mean, but that's, you know, I don't know whether he's nervous on the air or whether he really did all this stuff or whatever.
And then the third one is the question that's asked that's not really a question.
It's a passive-aggressive statement.
You know, like, Dave, you really don't think that getting all the points on the credit cards makes it worth keeping them?
That's not a question.
That's a statement.
Equatement.
Yeah, exactly.
There you go.
Well, what about, I mean, this was something that came to mind because I've heard you say it.
I've been doing this since you were in diapers.
If someone calls in with attitude, you give that to them, but you have been in the game for a little while now.
We wanted to ask, you've moved from radio show to now having a massive.
I want to hear your Dave impression a little more.
Yeah, that was pretty good.
No, I'm going to go ahead.
Wow.
How much debt do you have?
No, your accent that you were just doing with the diapers.
You got to do a micro impression to leave them on more.
So I just give them, wow.
You're really chickening out here, man.
A little disappointed.
Do you like the impression?
I think it's fabulous.
He thinks it's fabulous.
I thought it was fabulous too.
I wanted to hear more.
Who is the impression of again?
I'll give a little more in asking my actual question.
So here's my actual question.
What has been the biggest change since you got into the financial advising world?
What the smartphone has done to our culture.
Because we now have an entire, we have two generations calling the show, listening to the show, that have grown up with the entirety of the world's knowledge in their palm.
It's a magic wand.
They can push a button and stuff shows up at their desk.
They can push a button and they have the answer to any question.
They can push a button.
And so there is a wonderful thing because they're so that those two generations are so empowered and they're so confident.
But the downside of it is they feel like they're knowledgeable about things when they don't have the wisdom.
Not necessarily the whole generation, but the person.
And so someone will call in with that.
And they're 23 and maybe they're debt-free and maybe they got $500,000 to say, which would be freaking incredible for 23.
I wish I'd done that when I was 23.
But then they start lecturing me.
And I got a few more zeros on the end of my age and on the end of my net worth and my income compared to that little guy.
And so we're not going to get lectured.
I'll celebrate with you that you're successful for your point.
But, you know, that doesn't mean you've got it all figured out how all this stuff we teach is wrong.
So we're not going to do that.
And that, and yeah, that'll get you in hot water.
Because it's great radio.
Number one, it's compelling.
It's fun to listen to that.
We don't trash people just for that.
But if you walk into it, it makes it.
But the other thing is, I can't, if I went, oh, yeah, you're right.
You know, after 30 years, I'm completely wrong.
I guess we should just turn off these microphones and go home because what are we going to do tomorrow?
I mean, all this thing was a haul sham.
No, yeah.
I can't really, you know, if I was in person, just me and him sitting and talking, I could be a lot nicer and let him wander off into his delusion, right?
But he walked in front of 25 million people.
I've got to correct it.
He didn't leave me an option.
So that'll get you in trouble.
How much Bitcoin do you have?
Massive financial advice.
Dogecoin, any of those?
That was exactly.
Those two lean on each other.
I had a young man call yesterday on the show, and he was 23, and he had $150,000 saved, $30,000 of it in crypto.
And he had a car payment, and he was making like $220,000 a year, and he was in his early 20s.
And he said, you know, I listen to you all the time.
I do all your stuff.
And I said, no, you don't.
You got $30,000 in crypto.
You're not listening to me.
I said, are you going to do this thing?
You asked me a question.
Are you going to do this thing that I tell you to do when you didn't do that other thing I told you to do?
So, you know, are you really?
And he's like, okay, you got me.
All right.
I'll sell the crypto.
Now, what do you want me to do?
So, but yeah, no, I don't have any crypto.
He's so consistent.
And we keep trying to get him with gotcha questions, but he won't bust out a credit card.
Oh, Kyle.
I don't have my wallet on me, and I don't have my hotel key, and I need to jimmy the hotel door open.
Dave, I know you said you don't have your wallet.
Dave do you have a I got something I could Okay.
Well, I was going to ask Dave, do you have a- I got to cover this number.
I was going to ask Dave, do you have a credit card that I could have for a moment?
I got you covered.
You got me, Kyle.
I got you covered.
My wife still says, after 30 years, we'll be out somewhere.
Hand me the credit card.
And I'm like, honey, people are listening.
And I always correct her.
Honey, it's a debit card.
It's a debit.
That's the case.
Debit card, debit card.
Debit card, debit card right here.
Debit card here.
Nothing to see here.
But yeah, I can't get her to quit saying it.
But she hasn't had one in 30 years, but she still calls it that.
Do you have any gold or precious metals buried in various locations?
And could you give her any hints?
I have a really cool gold watch that the gold is probably worth more than the stupid wad.
And I wish I could get rid of it.
But I've thought about selling it just for the meltdown because it is like, it's like suit, it weighs eight pounds.
And I never wear it because it's super gaudy.
But I bought it in a moment when I was thought I was celebrating and it was dumb.
And it was a really dumb purchase.
But that's the gold I got.
I got some cufflinks there, gold.
Okay.
So you're not a precious metals guy.
You're not like a Ron Paul.
No, no.
Oh, Ron's a precious.
Oh, yeah.
He's all about the, he's got gold buried everywhere.
We tried to get him to tell us where it was buried and he wouldn't.
Well, he's in Kentucky, so we know where it is.
Yeah.
Okay.
General area.
We were trying to give him a hint, like, you know, the old oak tree by the yellow ribbon.
Yeah.
Oh, my gosh.
Well, we've got a headline here for you.
Okay.
Kyle wrote it.
Probably not autobiographical.
Family does modified version of Dave Ramsey plan, where they just never budget and spend way too much money.
Your thoughts?
Sounds like a Babylon B religious right there.
It's perfect, yeah.
And it happens like every day.
Yeah, we call them ish.
Ramsey-ish.
Ish.
Yeah, I do it-ish.
And, you know, if you do a law of gravity-ish, it hurts when you hit the ground.
So you're not into the modified, modified Ramsey.
I mean, I know.
Yeah.
I'm into helping anybody that wants some help, but when you, the stuff we teach, we didn't invent.
It comes from scripture.
It comes from your grandma and grandpa.
It's called common sense.
And you can do modified common sense and you'll get modified results.
I mean, it's all right.
You got to go full Ramsey.
I'm, you know, and it's working out for me.
You know, I've been doing it for a long time.
After I went broke, I said, I don't really care what other people think, and I'm doing this.
And I was a baby Christian and just learning what the Bible says about anything.
And I'm like, well, Jesus, this is his, he loves me, and he says this is what to do.
This is what I'm doing.
And some people aren't going to like that.
You know, when you're broke, you don't care what people like.
I just went broke.
In your opinion, I'm not trying to impress anybody at that point.
And that's kind of stuck around for about 30 years now.
So working out for me.
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I joke about doing Keto Plus.
The idea of keto is no carbs and then your body learns to burn fat instead of carbs, so you have to eat a high-fat diet.
If you do modified keto plus, if you do modified keto, you eat high-fat and some carbs.
You just end up becoming.
That completely destroys the whole concept.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It neutralizes the whole idea.
Well, I'll share.
It was a jolt when my wife and I heard one of your famous Dave rants.
It was the title of the thumbnail.
I could still remember it was Stop the Ish.
And you just said, stop doing Dave Ramsey-ish.
And what happened was we were a couple years into doing Dave Ramsey-ish.
Uh-oh.
That turned a corner for us.
And it was over the course of five years total that we paid down $126,000 in student debt.
Remember this?
Came here in October with John Deloney and Dr. John Deloney and Ken to do our debt-free scream.
And it was that that caused us to turn away.
Legendary.
We did Babylon B doing a debt-free screen.
We did your full system.
We didn't do a thing wrong.
We did the Every Dollar app.
We followed every jot and tittle of your book.
And then that's when it worked.
And when it was ish, you were treading water.
You don't really look like you just eat rice and beans, honestly.
It was the keto plus.
No, that's how I kept my girlish figure.
Rice and beans.
Rice and beans.
No, I'm kidding.
And we didn't do it perfect, but it moved in.
Nobody does it perfect.
Nobody does anything perfect.
That was what really helped us.
And it was student debt.
It was like 60 grand from my master's degree, 60 grand from our undergrad.
We got in the hole, but we dug out.
Well, you guys get a lot of mileage out of people in cultural weirdos that are, you know, they refuse to submit themselves to anything.
And, you know, part of getting the best out of life is learning, you know, choosing carefully with wisdom what to submit to.
What's going to be your boss?
Because something's going to be your boss.
You know, somebody's going to tell you what to do somewhere, somehow, something.
The marketplace is going to scream at you that you're stupid if you do something.
If we do something stupid at Ramsey, they go, you suck.
And so that item is not profitable.
And that's the marketplace having a conversation with you, right?
And so, yeah, but you guys, submitting is a weird thing.
And, you know, hire a personal trainer, and he's got a six-pack, and I got a keg.
And I want to argue with him about his nutrition plan.
It's so counterproductive, you know.
Well, it's kind of, you know, that is the American philosophy, and a lot of it based on classical liberalism, that we have this individualism, you know, that we can go do what we want.
And I mean, is there anything to that?
Or is it just what's the Christian perspective on that?
Because it's liberty, but.
Yeah, the individualism, it depends on, you know, what you're going to be.
I want to be independent.
Good.
Okay.
Independent of what?
You know, because you're going to be dependent on something.
But, you know, I struggle.
We've talked about this on the air last couple of days a little bit.
I struggle with that phrase financial independence.
Because you never really get independent.
As a matter of fact, the more stuff you own, the more repairmen you have to know.
So, you know, it's like there's more, an increased dependence.
The more technology I have, the more dependent I am on somebody that knows how to work it because I don't.
And so you don't get away.
I mean, hermit is a mental illness.
So, you know, being completely independent is ludicrous and it's not good spiritual mental health, either one.
And so if you're looking to get enough money to not have to deal with people, that's not a good motivation for that.
Because the problem with wealth is it'll make you more of what you already are.
So if you're a lover of people and you want to help people and you want to be generous and you get wealth, then that's expanded.
If you're a jerk and you're angry and you get wealth, that's expanded.
You're a big jerk.
And we see that all the time.
And that's where sometimes the rich get a bad name is because somebody that's a jerk gets money and it just magnified the fact that they were a jerk.
The money didn't make them a jerk.
They were already a jerk.
The money exposed it.
And so this independence thing is tied into that.
So I don't really want to be financially independent.
I want to have wealth that I'm managing as a Christian for God's glory.
And that includes taking care of my family and changing my family tree.
That includes lifting other people that are struggling and hurting.
It includes all of those things.
But I can't do any of that without wealth.
And so wealth's just a tool at that point.
But you're not independent.
You don't get, I mean, move to Costa Rica and hide in a cave.
I mean, what are you going to do?
Where are you going?
That's a positive vision of wealth.
And it's the opposite of what you hear in popular culture.
Y'all did the biggest study ever of millionaires.
I remember the prior one was 750, which was statistically significant, but you said we're going to 10x it.
And then you went a little further and you did over 10,000.
And what you determined was the popular understanding, which is that most wealth is inherited, was totally incorrect.
Why does that narrative, why does that myth about wealth continue to prevail?
Communist college professor.
You're on the Babylon B. You're speaking our language.
Yeah, I mean, it's Marxism at its core is that it's an underlying turbulence that causes a wealth inequality discussion and causes a, and it causes a universal wage discussion and all these kinds of things.
Like, I need a certain amount of level of stipends so I can only play Zelda.
That was the name of the game.
Good job.
Good callback.
A callback.
And so, but yeah, I need that.
And no, you need to get a job and be like a productive part of the culture and stuff, you know, like help people and things.
Serve somebody.
You got to serve somebody, dude.
And so, yeah, I think that's where it comes from.
And so the way you defeat it is you say, you know, the reason someone's concerned about, for instance, wealth inequality is they feel like it's not fair, which translated means I don't think I can.
It's a hopelessness.
And the proverb says, hope deferred makes the heart sick.
It's a sickness of heart.
And so then it twists and it turns and it becomes an activist.
Or it twists and it turns and it becomes an anarchy movement or something like that.
And all of that is based on, I guess if you're using liberal terms, disenfranchised.
But really what it is is heart illness, sickness of heart, hopelessness.
It's sad.
It's sad.
And so what we're talking about with this stuff is not just to put those hope stealers, straw man arguments aside and just defeat them with sound data and with reason, but also to the reason for doing that is not just to have an argument or win a debate.
It's because they can't steal people's hope.
We've got to give them hope.
We got to say, you can do this in America today.
As a matter of fact, right now, at this moment, because of that smartphone, because of the way technology works, you can just decide you're in business.
And, you know, in the next 20 minutes, you've got an eBay store.
In the next 20 minutes, you're selling stuff on your Instagram page.
In the next 20 minutes, you're buying stuff at a garage sale.
And we talked to a kid yesterday in Phoenix, who's 20 years old, made $120,000 last year.
He goes and picks up people's used furniture off the curb that they've thrown out, refurbishes it and sells it and puts it on Facebook Marketplace and sells it, made $120,000.
And 20 years old.
And, you know, and tell me there's, I can't find a job.
You know, flowerbed.
Well, we'll have to flowerbed that.
Yeah, we'll be bleeped down.
So, I mean, that tends to be an empowering message, and it's from Proverbs that diligence, wealth tends to follow diligence.
Did you find that in your massive study of millionaires?
Look at me, being a suck up again.
Did you find that in y'all's massive study of millionaires?
Let me interject.
I wanted to also.
So you're saying communism is bad.
Just to be clear.
Just clear, man.
Demographic comes out against communists.
I'm not an ideal.
It's not a political standard.
It's not even a political thing with me.
It's just an observation.
You can't find anywhere in history that the little man got ahead with it.
And I started with nothing, and then I went bankrupt because I was stupid.
So I've done it twice.
That's how good America is.
I mean, and, you know, you can't, that doesn't happen in Russia.
And that doesn't happen in China.
That doesn't happen in socialist Sweden.
You know, you're stuck in the old country.
You're stuck in the feudal system.
And here, you can just dream something up.
And in one generation, you're Mr. Facebook.
Oh, my gosh.
And that was my question.
In your study of millionaires, were a lot of the millionaires first-generation millionaires?
79%.
We studied 10,167 millionaires.
79% received exactly nothing as an inheritance.
5% received a small amount like Granny left them $5,000, which mathematically does not make you a millionaire.
And another 5% received substantial money, like $250,000, after they were already millionaires.
So, you know, 79, 5, and 5 is 89.
Nine out of 10 millionaires in America did not become millionaires because of inherited wealth, statistically.
And that's airtight research, solid data to the point that if you don't agree with that, what's known is wrong.
That's how that works.
I didn't make this up, and there's no confirmation bias.
There's no anything going on.
We had outside research firms study our methodology because we knew we were going to be critiqued and argued with and the whiny lefties would go doing that.
And it was just, we knew that was coming, and it has come.
Entire pages are dedicated to hating on me for this stuff.
We were able to extract some of the main stuff we wanted to extract for the Babylon B. There's one big thing we'd like you to do.
What's that?
Would you be so kind as to look into that camera?
Which camera?
That camera.
This?
This camera?
Yes.
Which camera?
This camera?
Which one do you want me to look at, guys?
The producer they're pointing at the middle.
Would you be so kind as to say, subscribe to the Babylon B?
Absolutely.
Hey, we're huge Babylon B fans.
We were fans of the B before the B was cool.
You should subscribe to the Babylon B. High five, Kyle.
We did it.
You did it?
Pack it up?
No.
Interview's over.
That's all we came here for.
Well, there's another headline we'd like to share with you.
Biden official calls Dave Ramsey's radio show for advice on paying off $31 trillion debt.
That was actually one of y'all's releases, wasn't it?
Yeah.
Did it do well?
Did it get a bump?
These are all Babylon B.
Oh, okay.
They're not real.
It's fair.
If I don't happen to open Instagram, which is where I'll pick you guys up because I got off Twitter, it's just full of trolls.
It's called X now, actually.
Oh, I'm sorry.
Sorry.
Sorry about that, Elon.
It sucks, but I got off of it.
And so we're on it, but I'm not.
I don't open the thing because it's just, I hate Dave's stuff on there.
But if I don't open up my social media fast enough to see you guys and you guys feature me on something, six of my friends will go, you're famous.
You're on the B, Dave.
Look at it, man.
This is so funny.
They nailed you.
And it's like all these old boomers are calling me all day long and they're just worshiping you guys.
It's so fun.
I love it.
Thank you.
I like the idea that we can just make his whole day insane.
I agree.
His phone's getting blown up.
He's on the air silencing it.
So Biden, if Biden calls in, or let's say an anonymous caller calls in, he sounds like an old guy.
And he's saying, hey, having trouble stringing a sentence.
Yeah, that guy.
He says something like, hey, man, this is $31 trillion in debt, and I don't know what to do.
And my screen.
What do I do, Dave?
What's your advice?
Wow.
That is just truly satire.
Yeah, if you want to get serious about it, I don't know.
I mean, I don't know if there's any party or person that has enough political capital to, I mean, if you think about to cause people to embrace the level of pain that they're going to have to to straighten that out.
Because a lot of people are going to hear a word they haven't heard in years.
It's an ancient word, no.
And when you start telling people no in America today, they get really angry.
Tell them that they have to sacrifice to win, tell them they have to pay a price that, you know, no discipline seems pleasant at the time, but it yields a harvest of righteousness.
If you start telling people stuff like that, live like no one else.
You should write that down.
You should live.
Later you can live like no one else.
I think it's already in the Bible.
I changed it.
I call it live like no one else so later you can live like no one else.
But yeah, that's how you would do it.
But I mean, you know what that would involve?
The number of things that, you know, my grandmother gets something and you just took that away.
And man, you would be the most unpopular.
I don't know if anybody's got the political capital or the backbone to absorb that much hate.
You'd be unfortunately.
Of course, it's not just cutting.
It's also increasing revenues, the incoming revenues.
And that's not a tax hike necessarily, as Art Laffer has taught us.
Sometimes a tax cut creates more revenue.
But somebody doesn't, some people don't like that because they call it Reaganomics.
It's not.
It's Laffernomics.
He was Reagan's guy that wrote that.
But yeah, Trickle Down came from Art Laffer.
We'll call it Ramseynomics.
Yeah.
Yeah, if we're going to spread the hate around, let's do it.
Did you see the Barbie movie this week?
You know, I missed that one.
You missed it.
What about Oppenheimer?
I'm going to go see that one.
I'm here to see it in 3D.
And the one I did go see is a Cavizzle movie.
Oh, you saw Sounds Freedom?
Yeah.
Sounds like Freedom is incredible.
Well, it's just dark.
And I'm redneck, and so I was just angry.
I was just like, all of these people that harm little children, I don't have good Christian thoughts about what should happen to them.
And so, yeah, I'm, yeah, it's bad.
I've got a lot of friends that do ministry and sex trafficking and, you know, clean up that mess.
And on several sides of it, the legal front or the door kicking side and get the kids out, all this stuff.
And it's a brutal mess.
And for someone to come out and act like it's a made-up thing is just.
It's a QAnon adjacent conspiracy.
No, I saw that.
That just.
When it's like based on a true story.
I mean, I don't know if there's a narrative liberties or whatever.
Well, it's a singular, I mean, it's a singular event was their point, and it doesn't really happen.
And of course it happens.
It happens millions, millions and millions and millions.
It's really scary.
As a father of four young children, I'm skipping it for now.
It doesn't seem like a good date night flick for my wife and I.
No, you would be like friends.
It's like you feel weird eating popcorn at a movie like that.
You know, like same thing with Passion of the Christ, but just also Jim Caviezo.
Also, Jim Cavizz.
Two movies, the only one that's moving.
Some serious downers, yeah.
What about Mission Impossible?
Did you see it?
No, but I saw the stunt, the cruise.
What a superhuman being.
Unbelievable that that guy.
Talk about someone with an entrepreneurial bone as well as the acting chops, of course.
He's just got chops, man.
I mean, it's just unbelievable.
I've never met him, but I mean, that just that jump.
And man, I do some X-Game stuff, but nothing like that.
That's just bizarre stuff.
I mean, I've done parachuting, but not, geez, it's wild.
And I'll go see it because of that thing because I watched that, you know, that YouTube thing was going around about the making of it.
It was pretty cool.
It was pretty cool.
Do you golf?
I'm just learning.
Is it ball or disclosed?
No, I go out there.
Do you ball golf or disc golf?
It's a serious question.
I have disc golfed before I ball golfed.
Yeah, I started about five years ago, so I suck.
I'm pretty much here.
I play with people that are good.
I played with some guys the other day that are real good.
My struggle with ball golf is that you have to have a basic level of competence to have fun.
Yeah, like if you're just going off and, you know, it's just not fun.
Well, or, you know, when I started, I just, I knew I get too down the rabbit hole OCD serious about stuff, and like I can't stand not doing something well.
And I knew if we're going to start, I was almost 60 years old before I started playing, right?
So my wife and I are learning to play together.
We're taking lessons.
My motto is the secret to happiness is low expectations.
And so we're just going to go out here.
It's a pretty place.
I'm with my wife.
We're spending time together.
We lose 63 balls.
It's all I can afford it.
My struggle with disc golf is that I'm a born-again Christian, so they always pat you down to make sure you have your regulation bong or pipe, and I never do.
So don't let me onto the disc golf course.
You gotta be.
Oh, that's great.
I didn't know that was required.
Nobody told me that part.
Disc golf.
Yeah.
You can get disqualified if you pass it, right?
That's it.
All right, well, we're getting close towards the end here, but I guess we've got a few more questions.
You can go back in time 10 years and talk to 20-year-old Dave Ramsey.
You can say, well, like one sentence to yourself.
One tweet.
Length sentence.
This is going to be harder than you think.
That's what you say.
This is going to be harder than you think.
I always thought it was going to just happen, and I'm still waiting on it to just happen.
Still waiting to arrive, huh?
Yeah.
When you arrive, let me know.
But yeah, it's still scratching and clawing, still fighting, and still pulling every single item.
It seemed like everything we do is in ones.
I wish occasionally something would just hockey stick.
But, you know, you do that 30 years.
You're an overnight success, but it's a lot of work.
Well, that's interesting because that is how people think of things that you arrive.
And we've talked to people that are successful Hollywood directors and stuff.
I'm like, when did you arrive?
And they're like, I'm still.
Well, the thing, again, I've talked to a lot of interviewed, like you have, a lot of people that are very successful in all kinds of different things, whether it's ministry or whether it's a huge church or new satire.
Time with the battery.
Very successful.
And I say this all the time, but it's old news.
But the gleaming mountain of success is really a pile of failures.
It's a pile of garbage.
It's all the dumb stuff you did, and you're standing on it instead of laying under it.
That's the only difference.
And so, you know, just don't do stuff that's big enough that it takes you out.
Like when I filed bankruptcy, it took me out.
I had to start completely over because I did stupid so big that I couldn't recover from it.
Do little stupid stuff.
Do little stupid.
Too little stupid.
Not big, stupid.
There's the secret to success.
Do little stupid.
I'm looking over your shoulder at a book by Rachel Cruz.
Know yourself, know your money.
You have three children.
We wanted to ask a parenting question.
Did you have any pictures or videos of them taking their first steps, their first baby steps?
Oh, but a boom.
I told him not to say that.
I tried to VB.
It was funny in his head.
Actually, we do, but not their financial baby steps.
So you don't ever ask the IT department to take a peek at their every dollar accounts, make sure they're up to snuff?
No.
No.
One thing is if you raise them and release them, they should just stake on.
And so I don't need to manage their lives.
They need to manage their lives.
No boomerang children?
Yeah, we haven't had any boomerang children.
You co-authored a book with your daughter, Rachel Cruz, Smart Money, Smart Kids.
That was her first number one.
Does that mean she's your favorite?
No.
Can you give us a ranked list?
Do you want to rank them out?
Rachel is the most like me, and so she and I argue the most.
And sometimes on the air to the great joy of our audience.
Good radio.
But yeah, she sits on our operating board, too.
And we have some arguments in there from time to time.
The whole operating board does how we process stuff.
We're hillbilly.
We fight.
But she's, yeah, she'll lead the charge on that.
Or my oldest daughter is more like her mom.
She's chill, and she's a big ministry heart, very kind.
She runs our foundation, all of the giving.
And so she's the sweet one in that regard.
Rachel's sweet, too.
And then Daniel is our president of the company.
And so he and I run the day-to-day ops around here.
So he's very entrepreneurial.
But they're very, obviously, like anybody's got kids.
They're three different kids and they're three wonderful kids.
And they turned out and they all three married well.
Great spouses.
Thank God.
I think it's sweet that they all landed here.
None of them had a, it's not my dream, dad.
It's yours.
Well, I mean, they have the ability to do that.
Denise did at first.
Denise worked for a ministry called Mercy Ministries with Nancy Alcorn and when she came out of college.
And when we started the Family Foundation, we said, hey, we're going to bring in somebody to be a director, and we've got to learn how to do this because I don't know how to do it.
And we got to, you know, and do you want to come in and learn how to be the director?
And I'll learn with you and we'll do this.
And she said, no, I don't think God's calling me to do that.
So I got my own thing over here.
And then about two years later, I was still limping along with that thing.
And she said, I feel like my season's changed and I'm good.
So she ended up coming in.
But at first, she stiff-armed us, which is fine.
She's allowed to do that.
We told them, don't come to work here unless God calls you because it's a pain in the butt to work with family.
None of them went off and worked at American Express or anything.
We don't have any heretics in the family.
Awkward family.
Not working at a Bank of America.
Disown you.
Well, we conclude each of our interviews with the same 10 questions.
The 10 questions.
Hey, everyone.
Today we spoke with Dave Ramsey, and the Ramsey show talks a lot about budget and giving every dollar a name before the month begins so you know what it's doing instead of wondering where it went.
Unfortunately, when you shop businesses pushing woke progressive agendas, those hard-earned dollars are helping fund the very policies that you fundamentally stand against.
Policies that further divide Americans while eroding the future of the American economy.
So what is the answer?
Well, the answer starts with you and your wallet.
Imagine a world where every single dollar you spend could go towards patriotic companies that share your values for life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
With Public Square, you can.
Public Square is a free app and website that connects freedom-loving Americans to a nationwide platform with the largest gathering of patriotic consumers, businesses, and services our country has ever seen.
So take even more control of your money by putting purpose behind every dollar that you spend.
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That's publicsq.com.
Again, that's publicsq.com.
And the first one is, have you ever met Carmen?
No, but I'm of the age of Christian.
You're talking about Christian Carmen, right?
I followed all of it back in the day, and most of your audience don't even know who that is, probably.
And most of our guests.
Most of our guests, too.
Absolutely.
No, I was a fan at one point, but I don't know what happened to the guy.
But anyway, yeah, I'm the age of bad news for you.
So like Amy Grant and Michael W. Smith and Stephen Curtis Chapman, right?
They're like on the Mount Rushmore of Christian music for me.
That's the age I am.
Who are they again?
Amy Grant, Stephen Curtis Chapman, Michael W. Smith.
Michael W. Smith.
Stephen Curtis Chapman's out here in Nashville.
Yeah, they're all three friends now.
So sweet.
You need a fourth one, though.
Okay.
I do, because there's supposed to be four on there, but I don't know who it is.
I'm sure there is.
Keith Green?
Yeah, he's gone.
He's gone as well.
What about all three DC Talk members like as one horrifying amalgamation?
Yeah, they would say that was horrifying.
Rich Mullins.
Yeah.
Yeah, that would do.
There's a lot of, you can do a lot.
Sandy Patty, I mean, there's a lot of people you can put in there.
Of that ilk, of that era, but that's the Carmen era back there in the 80s, the awesome 80s.
I would put KJ 5 too.
We've got another question for you.
Calvinist or Arminian?
It's one of my favorite t-shirts.
This t-shirt shows me I'm a Calvinist.
The back says, I chose the t-shirt, I'm Armenian.
Oh, that's so good.
Great shit.
Great shirt, yeah.
Yeah, probably somewhere in between.
I can't get to five tulips of Calvin.
I can't get all there.
Four and a half.
And yet I've had so many things happen to me that I have to stand back and go, that was Providence.
I didn't choose at all.
But I also know if I don't plant corn, none grows sowing and reaping.
So that's, you know, that'll move you towards Armenianism.
So, yeah, it's yeah.
You're right in the middle.
Yeah, somewhere.
All right.
Depending on which day as to which direction you go.
He's an Arminian.
Well, if you're not a Calvinist, you have to be.
Exactly.
According to Calvin.
Yeah.
You got to go.
Yeah.
You have to submit to the all five.
You're Calvinist-ish.
Don't be-ish.
Modified Calvinists.
You're ish.
You're all.
You're right.
And you should be killed.
Yeah.
There's that.
But yeah.
You get to add one book to the Bible.
What is it?
Oh, you walk me into blasphemy.
Well, Jesus appears and he's like, okay, well, completely unrelated question.
What's your favorite book besides the Bible?
Man, that's hard.
And then we'll add it.
I am a completely book junkie.
Wow.
You know, I don't know, but I tell you, 20 years ago, I read it and I just read it two weeks ago again: Man Search for Meaning with Victor Frankl.
I really comprehend very well when I read, but it was like I read it fresh, like I'd never read it before.
It tore me up again.
Do you do audio books or physical books?
That was physical.
I like physical if I can, but if I'm just running and gunning, I'll throw an audio on just to keep something on the earth that's productive.
We got another question for you.
Cigars or pipes?
Oh, cigar.
I've got a pipe, but I don't have the patience for it.
Yeah, it's a lot of work.
Is it for the you got it?
It makes you smarter, though.
Your IQ goes up.
Cigars make you more arrogant.
But a pipe makes you like.
My buddy Stephen Mansfield, he's a writer, and hang out with him, and he's a pipe guy.
You guys don't take your pipes on the disc golf course?
Different pipe.
You're talking about a Gandalf pipe, not a disc golf pipe.
Different pie.
I'm thinking tobacco.
Well, we should have carved out time for cigars with cigars with Dave.
I don't even think about it.
Oh, you get to hang out with any three people, living or dead.
Who are they?
Wow.
And you can't pick Jesus.
You can't pick Jesus.
And you got to do this off the top of your head.
And you can't pay.
Well, we did send you the notes, but you didn't.
You didn't say Jesus.
So Luther?
Good choice.
Paul.
I'm thinking rabble rousers.
Who stirred up Ruckus?
George Washington.
I don't know.
Yeah, enthralled.
Probably Daniel Boone.
Yeah.
Okay.
I'd love to see Daniel Boone.
Okay.
Good choices.
Weird choices.
Yeah.
Whiskey or beer?
Oh, whiskey.
I'm a bourbon guy.
Oh, wait a minute.
I just said that where people will hear it.
Wait a minute.
I've just lost five Baptist churches.
What would be the first thing you would do as president?
Not run.
I don't need this job.
I would not be a good president.
But they made you.
You're there.
I don't have the patience for those people.
Jesus appears and says you have to be president.
Yeah, there it is.
He keeps appearing today.
We know how to pull the strings.
Yeah, this is it.
You know, I think the only thing the president's position is good for is to use it as a bully pulpit, a motivational lift to cause people to be the best versions of themselves.
So that makes my favorite president, Ronald Reagan.
And that's not a policy statement, although I agree with most of his policies, not all of them.
But he and in a weird way, in a twisted way, Trump did some of that.
But there was so much acrimony around it that you couldn't hear all the, you couldn't hear the aspirational lift.
But this idea that it's, like, I tell people all the time, they call in here, you changed my life.
I didn't change your life.
I showed you how you changed your life.
You're the hero.
You guys went and paid off $126,000.
I did not pay a dime of your debt.
You changed your life.
You're the hero of that story, not me.
And so, and presidents, all too many of them and too many congressmen and senators want to be the hero.
And the American people are the freaking hero.
If you make the people the hero, they'll go fix these problems.
And Reagan did a lot of that.
He did well with that.
And so the presidents, to the extent they did that, have been better presidents.
I like the idea that you would become president and then you would just set up the Ramsey show in the Oval Office.
Start taking calls.
Start taking calls.
That's stupid.
That's stupid.
Cancel the IRS.
That's the exact message of Donald Miller's building a story brand?
Exactly, it is.
That's how Donald and I became friends.
You're a key figure in that book.
And he says, Dave Ramsey's operation does a great job of stepping back and saying, We're the guide and the mentor.
You're the hero.
We were doing it before we knew we were doing it.
Donald gave us words to it, gave us a vernacular to it.
And he goes, This is what you're doing.
Those debt-free screams, you're making them the hero.
And I'm like, Because they are the hero.
I'm under no illusion that I actually did it, but I did show you how.
I gave you the information and the inspiration.
And I wish more people in office would provide information and inspiration and let people fix the problems instead of like, I'm here to help.
It's like, yeah, you're killing me.
We have a less dignified question now.
Oh, good.
Mr. Ramsey, have you ever punched anyone or been punched?
Yeah, I grew up in Redneck.
I grew up.
It's been a long time.
What is your best punching story?
Or is it all a kid all as a youth?
Yeah, it was all teenager and college stuff or something.
I mean, I grew up in a neighborhood where that was a normal process.
And so it wasn't.
I mean, the socioeconomic environment was, you know, you just punched it.
Somebody's being somebody says something about your relative or whatever, your mother or whatever, then they're, you know, we're not going to discuss this intellectually.
But yeah, that, yeah.
So no punching anyone recently.
No.
No, man.
Jesus has helped me.
And that's good.
We're doing that a long time ago.
Your nose looks intact.
No cauliflower ear.
It got broke once.
Kid, yeah, kid busted me pretty good.
That's the punching story.
That's the punching story.
You get to go to one concert in any band in history.
Who do you go see?
Beatles.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Never got to see them live, and so that's why I would call that.
But my number one band would be Eagles.
And they're getting ready to end it.
Yeah.
But you've seen them.
A bunch of them.
You've seen them.
Yeah.
When they first came out, I was there.
And I was 16 when they were coming out.
I hate it when I get this question, but here we go.
This is the best question.
This is the best question, maybe.
Good conversation started.
Jesus came to you.
You told me I had to ask you.
Jesus is a question.
Do you accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior?
Every head bowed and every eye closed.
Cue the piano music?
No.
Soft organs.
I met God as I met Jesus as an adult.
And so, and was on my way up financially.
We started with nothing and were starting to make real money for a kid that had never seen any money.
And I stumbled in the back door of a church, and these people were raising their hands like they knew some answer to some question.
And I told my wife, if snakes come out, I'm out of here.
That was so long ago, people didn't raise their hands.
It was that long ago.
I mean, only the weird, weird, weird churches back then, you know, in 1982.
So, but yeah, these people love me.
And Pastor L.H. Hardwick became my spiritual dad.
And I learned the Bible there.
I got baptized there.
I met God there.
I got to preach his funeral 18 months ago.
And one of a few people that spoke.
I wasn't the only one that was there.
And absolutely incredible man.
His sons are two of my best friends.
They're like brothers to me now to this day.
And so, yeah, absolutely.
Game on.
All right.
Well, it sounds like he was already converted, but can we get a rededication then?
Can we re-baptize in some cigar smoke?
Yeah.
How many times have you walked down the aisle?
Just the one time?
Just once.
It stuck.
I wasn't the kid at youth camp that every summer got saved.
I have ministered to a few of those over the years, but yeah, every summer Lil Bobby gets saved again.
By Christmas, the pot's back out.
He's playing disc golf again.
He's back on the disc golf course again.
Good call back.
Well, thanks for coming on our show, and thanks for donating our cool new set that we're going to take home with us.