A Special Bee Weekly: Kirk Cameron At The Babylon Bee
It's another Bee Weekly, but this time Kirk Cameron joins the crew at The Babylon Bee! Kyle, Brandon, and Jarret talk about what it was like growing up in the cozy and quirky milieu that was 90s Christian pop culture and how that experience shaped them for better or worse. Then Kyle and Jarret sit down with Tribulation Force himself, Kirk Cameron, to talk about faith, the Christian movie industry, his relationship with evangelist Ray Comfort, and how America may be ripe for a revival! Kirk Cameron famously walked away from Hollywood after becoming a Christian at 17 when Jesus changed his life. He is known for acting in the sitcom Growing Pains and for portraying Cameron "Buck" Williams in the Left Behind film series. He has a new movie coming out called LIFEMARK. He also wrote the foreword to The American Covenant: The Untold Story, a book by his good friend Marshall Foster. This episode is brought to you by our sponsors: iTarget (use offer code TheBee for 10% off and free shipping) Dan Crenshaw Youth Summit (use code BEE for 50% student tickets) Allegiance Gold My Patriot Supply (Now save $250 on a 3-month emergency food kit. That's their best deal in 3 years!) In the full-length episode, available to subscribers to The Babylon Bee, Kirk answers questions from listeners and subscribers, reacts to times The Babylon Bee made fun of him, and answers The Ten Questions.
I'm Kyle Mann, the editor-in-chief of the Babylon Bee, hanging out with my buddy Jarrett and my other buddy Brandon, who both work at the Babylon Bee.
They're not just my buddies, but they are also my buddies.
In fact, we're going to go to Top Golf later today.
Oh, are we?
I'm pretty excited about it.
I can't wait.
I brought my clubs.
Did you?
Someone's being extra today.
That's a little extra.
Aren't you supposed to be?
It's like bringing your own bowling ball.
Isn't it just a driving range?
It's just a driving range with like Hot Wings.
Or it's like bringing your own bowling ball to Top Golf.
Yeah.
Oh, I brought my Toppol.
It did not go over well.
Did you wear special suits?
Did you bring special shoes?
Yeah, I have the clip-on shoes with the cramp-ons.
Did you bring a glove?
Oh, I do have a glove, and I have a towel.
I have the whole thing.
I have a bag of clothes.
That's what you put in the bag of clubs.
So today is a very special day.
Besides Top Golf, we have Kurt Cameron coming into the studio.
Do we?
In about 30 minutes, he's going to knock on the door.
And often we'll say, here comes someone in the studio.
And they like, and we pretend that they come, but we already recorded it.
But literally, we're sitting here waiting for him to show up.
That's right.
So we're just filling time right now.
We're wasting time.
That's what it is.
This is awesome.
Remember that song?
If you're listening to the podcast and you haven't subscribed to the new podcast channel on YouTube, please do so.
We have youtube.com slash thebabylon bee podcast.
We moved our podcast from youtube.com slash thebabylon be to a new podcast channel.
So little housekeeping item.
If you listen, and sometimes you go on YouTube and you haven't subscribed yet, go on YouTube, hit subscribe, help us grow the channel, and that would be fantastic.
Another housekeeping item.
Look at this lovely mug that I'm drinking.
Oh, it's not a mug.
What is it?
A tumbler that I'm drinking out of.
You're not the only one.
Oh, look, there's two of them.
Now there are two of them.
It says conservative tears of joy because, and then it says right here, Roe v. Wade was aborted.
The abortion of Roby Wade.
The abortion of Roby Wade.
Well, you know what I like about this is that it's not liberal tears.
Right, but it's double tick.
But it's like a triple tick because they're like, ah, liberal tears.
Oh, it's conservative tears.
That's good.
And then they're like, oh, of joy.
What?
So like liberals are going to buy this.
I think they will.
We should market it to them.
It's going to be so funny.
We're going to laugh at them from theirs.
And when they find out, we will collect their leftist tears in our Daily Wire Tumblers.
I don't have a Daily Wire Tumblr.
And there's no typos on this mug.
It's like perfect because that's the quality of standard of quality that we have.
We really put some extra work into it this time.
So there's no typos.
No typos.
And yeah, so check this out.
Conservative Tears Draw.
You can get this at shop.babylonbee.com.
We also have a beautiful Clarence Thomas Hope poster sticker and t-shirt that I'm not wearing right now because I want to wear this for our upcoming discussion about Christian culture.
MXPX.
MXPX.
We also had an awesome parody of The Beach Boys.
I wish we all could leave California.
Well, that's not the Beach Boy song.
The Beach Boy song is I Wish They All Could Be California Girls.
Or it's technically just called California.
California Girls.
And, you know, I wish we all could leave California.
We can't play it here because then we'll get a copyright strike on this.
I don't know exactly how that works.
I mean, parody, I think, is fair use, but for some reason, our video is currently copyrighted.
I googled it, and it seems like there is a little bit of profit sharing that occurs when they still have the rights to the melody, so they get a portion.
That seems weird.
And it seems like YouTube has an automated way of doing that.
So maybe we'll still make some money from it.
You never know.
We'll see.
Anyway, go check that out on our YouTube channel, youtube.com slash the Babylon B.
And that video is going far and wide, and it was a lot of fun to shoot.
It was a lot of fun.
I also, we had a con, I told people if they guessed what Beach Boys parody we were going to do, I would send out a Sizzler gift card.
And nobody was anywhere near the ballpark of what it was, so nobody gets a Sizzler gift.
Guessed the song, did they?
They guessed the song.
Maybe we could send them a Sizzler gift card.
Yeah, I think so.
Okay.
It's crazy.
You know, my mom called it California Leaving.
So she was, she's like, I really liked that California Leaving song.
California Leaving.
Yeah, yeah.
I want to do that.
All the streets are brown.
All the streets are brown.
And the teachers are gay.
And it's perfect with it because it was just on screen.
We needed to be recorded.
Again, we got it.
Like one take, right?
Did we get that clean, guys?
Did we get that clean?
That was good.
Our harmonies were perfect.
Hey, our CEO, Seth Dillon, went on Joe Rogan, which was awesome.
And we're going to play a little clip from it here for you to watch.
And get copyright stricken.
Check this out.
Will we get copyright?
Yeah.
Oh, then we're not going to play a clip.
Just go look it up.
Watch it legally on Spotify.
Yeah.
The part about abortion is really good.
Yeah, some sparks flew.
Emotions ran high.
Yeah.
On the section on abortion.
Mostly from Joe Rogan.
He was the one that...
He was getting pretty fired up.
He actually was getting pretty heated, yeah.
Yeah.
It was kind of interesting because he kept talking about his daughter, right?
Like you can't tell me my daughter can't get an abortion.
Yeah.
If my daughter was raped, you can't tell me that she can't get an abortion.
Right.
It was super personal.
But I think Seth was able to kind of just stick to the facts.
Oh, he did some jiu-jitsu in there.
Yeah.
It was pretty good.
But that was like a hypothetical situation, right?
Right.
And it's like an emotion-driven hypothetical situation.
I mean, a follow-up is, you can't tell me that my daughter should die, essentially.
I mean, right, what if, yeah, yeah, like, or you can't tell me that your daughter should die.
If you're using the daughter as an emotional appeal, it's also an emotional appeal to say, okay, your daughter was killed before she was born.
I just liked that he utilized Joe's language when he talked about Miracle, the miracle of life.
Do you guys remember this?
So Joe Rogan stated, well, you're saying there's some miracle moment.
I didn't watch all 87 hours.
But then Seth took it and he goes, well, you're the one that's saying there's a miracle moment.
He's like, I think we are, you know.
It was actually really great.
It was a great little verbal jiu-jitsu.
He got him in a rear-naked choke.
Which isn't easy to do verbally.
But left-handed or right hand.
It's a really difficult guy.
With his left-hand side, is he a lefty MMA fighter?
You know, I think he's an ambidextrous person.
I would not mess with Joe Rogan.
He's got a big name.
He's a sturdy dude.
He's a sturdy dude.
He can kick your butt.
Speaking of sturdy dudes, let's go to weekly news with Adam Jenser.
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It's time for the weekly news with Adam Jenser.
The biggest news today, Joe Biden announced a plan to forgive up to $20,000 of student loan debt for borrowers making less than $125,000 per year.
This is great news, said students who skipped intro to economics.
It's the most money a Biden has given struggling college students since the last time Hunter went to Empire Gentleman's Club.
And don't worry, if you make more than $125,000 per year or paid off your own debt, the plan still gives you $300 billion in taxes.
Vice President Kamala Harris was photographed on vacation in Hawaii this week, hiking up a mountain, which is unusual since she usually sleeps her way up.
California Governor Gavin Newsome announced that he is banning the sale of gas-powered cars in the state by 2035, which means everyone will have to buy electric cars like Leonardo DiCaprio or steam-powered cars like Jay Leno.
Prince William announced that he and Kate Middleton are moving out of London to give their children a normal life.
He's also starting his son on Rogaine to give him a normal life and keeping his daughter away from Uncle Andrew to give her a normal life.
Ben Affleck's brother Casey Affleck skipped Ben and Jennifer Lopez's wedding, saying he had other things going on that day.
But Casey has promised he'll go to Ben Affleck's next wedding.
Los Angeles County is now offering free COVID testing for pets.
So far, the only pets following the COVID protocols are the sheep.
Sylvester Stallone's wife has filed for divorce after 25 years of marriage.
Stallone's representative Michelle Bega issued the following statement from the actor A female engineer is promoting a new trend called quiet quitting where workers continue at their job, but secretly put in minimal effort There's probably a good punchline for that setup, but whatever.
A new study found that when dogs are reunited with their owners after being away from them for more than five hours, their eyes tear up with joy.
It's the same thing your cat does when you leave.
Dennis Rodman said he has permission to travel to Russia to negotiate for Brittany Griner's release.
So once again, the NBA has to bail out the WNBA.
When asked who exactly gave him permission to travel to Russia, Dennis Rodman replied, my wife, Dennis Rodman.
Drought conditions in Texas Dinosaur Valley State Park have revealed previously undiscovered dinosaur footprints from 113 million years ago, or for some of our viewers, from 6,000 years ago.
Dolphins trained by the U.S. Navy were caught on video eating venomous sea snakes.
So for those of you who think our military is falling behind China, don't worry.
We now have transgender soldiers and dolphins that eat snakes.
That's it for weekly news.
Be sure to check out the full Babylon Bee Weekly podcast on the new Babylon Bee podcast channel.
And come see me live at McCurdy's in Sarasota, Florida, September 1st to 4th, and Off the Hook Comedy Club in Naples, September 7th and 8th.
Thanks for that, Adam Jenser.
He's so sturdy.
All right, in the few minutes we have left before Kirk Cameron arrives and we bask in the glory, we wanted to talk a little bit about Christian culture in the 90s.
Any of you who grew up in the 90s with Christian culture, maybe you loved it, maybe you hated it, but you got memories of it.
I do.
It was a thing that happened.
It happened.
So I thought we could just kind of do it as word association.
Sure.
Veggie tales.
Don't have eyebrows.
They should not have eyebrows.
Should never have eyebrows.
And if you give them eyebrows, that's when everything goes downhill.
That's the jump the shark moment.
I think of St. Nick.
I was probably six or seven.
VHS tape.
It was the one with the two hills.
The two-hill one.
Yeah.
You know which one I'm talking about?
I don't know what you're talking about.
It was the story of the Good Samaritan.
And like a guy gets beat up by the side of the road.
Oh, oh, two.
Okay, I thought you just meant there were two.
It was like a tale of two cities.
They called it something like that.
Yeah, something like that.
I forget the songs.
Oh, Jericho.
That's the other one.
With the peas.
That's a really good one.
French peas.
Oh, yeah, the French slurpees over the side.
Yeah, that's it.
It was like when the new one went out and you went to Berean or wherever the bookstore back when that bookstore existed.
Phil Visher wrote an interesting article about the fall of Veggie Tales and the Decline of Big Idea.
We talked about the fall of Phil Visher.
This was before the fall of Phil Vischer.
It was an interesting thing about how when you go from a small business to a medium business, that's where most businesses die because there's like this, we need to produce more all of a sudden to sustain this.
And it was also the eyebrows.
But they realized like we can't just release two tapes a year anymore.
It can't be this event.
Now we have to like churn out.
Remember the low-budget flat, the 2D Larry Boy cartoon or like that was like we need to get more stuff out.
And it was suddenly not hitting the quality anymore.
That's too bad.
Salty the Singing Songbook.
Oh, of course.
I named my cat after Salty.
Nice.
Awesome.
My cat, who was a Siamese cat.
I got him when I was seven years old.
His name is Roger.
His name's Roger.
Well, okay, so with a P, yeah.
But here's Salty.
Here's the salty.
So later on, they kind of revamped Salty and made him more Muppety and more visually appealing as much as Salty could possibly be.
But the old Salty for just a dude with his head poking out in the blue for Or and Charity Church Mouse were terrifying.
Well, it was almost like a clown.
It was like painting clowns.
It was quite clownish.
Yeah, it was very scary.
Fantastic songs.
Great songs.
Gonna climb up that mountain.
That's not how it goes.
One step at a time, I'm climbing my mountain.
One step at a time.
I think I always sang it the other way.
Yeah, I think so.
For the glory of the Lord.
Oh, I love you, Lord.
And I lift my voice.
Is that just a generic?
I was, but it was salty.
It was in the salty.
And the, what's it?
Missing nine kids missing?
Yes.
It's missing.
I never, I don't think I ever saw salty anything.
Do you guys remember a friend, a friend of mine, a good friend of mine, she actually went to, I think, her high school, I think it was Maranatha, and like basically her entire school faculty was like the salty cast.
And like Salty was her principal, something like that.
I don't know.
I might be making salt.
I'm going to see the singing songbook.
I might be making that story.
Hi, I will swallow it.
He came to school dressed as the songbook.
Bible Man.
I wasn't into Bible.
I think I was a little bit old for it.
And I think I detected the cheesiness.
Yeah.
You know, it's funny.
Even as a child, you kind of know.
I think with all this stuff, you knew that you were getting the Kirkland brand version.
That's true.
Like, you knew, like, you know, like when you get the Lucky Charms that you've got the Marshmallow Mays instead or whatever.
But wait, Marshmallow Matrix are better than Lucky Charms.
Are they?
No.
Significantly.
No.
I think they are.
I've never had them.
So anyway, you guys should try them.
But Salty, you need to tell yourself.
But Salty is the S tier.
Like, there's no comparison.
Do we need a Super Smash Brothers of Christian 90s culture?
Is this the Babylon B video game itself?
Do you guys remember Ant?
So you remember Anthony Ant?
So this was a little bit before maybe your time, but there was Anthony Ant and then there was the music machine.
Do you guys remember music machine?
Yes.
Music machine.
Yes, yes, yes.
I do know some music.
Music machine.
Now that's the Kirkland brand version of Salty.
That was like Cab Patience.
No, this was, I think Salty was the Kirkland brand version of this.
No, but it was.
This was legit.
Sure.
The Donut Man.
Okay.
What is the Donut Man?
I don't even know what that is.
It's like God's Love, blah, blah.
Is that where the hole in the middle of it is?
Is that where Demon Bread comes from?
That's where Demon Bread comes from.
Nice.
Demon bread.
So respect, at least.
I never saw it, but I respect it.
They had like donut puppets, and then they were like, the bread is baking in the oven.
And then this bread comes out, and it's like, dung, and it like glares at you with the sun.
I think they added it.
They didn't call it a demon bread afterwards.
I don't think those parts are.
I am demon brad.
Mary Rice Hopkins.
Oh, Mary Rice Hopkins is my personal friend.
She's wonderful.
My wife and I have actually worked with her before.
Oh, very.
We've recorded some songs with her.
She's great.
We grew up with the tapes.
I think we had one that we just watched over and over.
Yeah, I mean, I remember having the piano folio and learning her songs and then meeting her later in life was really cool.
That's really cool.
And she's still a Christian.
Yes, she is.
Unlike Phil Fisher.
It seems like the key is the cheesier you were, the more likely you are to still be a Christian.
Like the cooler you, the cooler you were, the more likely you were to be.
This is a paraphrase of be a square.
So here's the thing.
A paraphrase of the Bible verse that God uses the foolish things of the world to shame.
I agree.
God uses the cheesy things of the world to shame the cool.
He does.
I was in a for 12 years.
I played Jesus in an Easter play, and it was all 90s CCM music.
Like it was like, you know, Stephen Curtis chat.
Charles of Play.
Yeah, it was like crazy.
And then, but so many people came to Christ in that.
And it was, there was a lot of cheesiness.
We had donkeys, lasers, puppet shows.
Have puppet shows saved anyone to your recollection?
No, not that I remember.
Most of those guys are atheists, man.
Yeah, the puppet show guys.
Most of those guys are a lot of people.
It's a dark world.
It's a dark world.
The puppet world is a dark world.
The Lord's Gym t-shirts.
Oh, I always loved looking at these parody shirts.
Or just Danny Pierce.
Even as a child, I was like, who buys these?
Me.
It was me.
I got them.
Dude, I owned every single.
I had the PlayStation one that said salvation instead of PlayStation.
The number one Mountain Dew one.
I don't remember what it was.
Well, the number one I wanted to do was a Mountain Dew, but it was Moses with the Ten Commandments, and it would be coming down from Sinai.
And it would say Mountain Jew.
Yeah.
Why do we not have this shirt on Babylon Beach?
Can we please design this?
I actually looked into it.
Some other people do it.
It did come from my brain and then.
Someone stole it.
Someone stole it.
Rhyses, Jesus.
Yeah.
Testamentos.
Testaments.
Testaments are coming up, but we can do those now.
Yeah, that's a good one.
I worked at the Family Christian Bookstore.
See, that's the thing about it.
I had to restock the Testament.
So I would assume that Kyle would be somebody who's totally cynical about all this stuff.
But I think you kind of love it.
I actually kind of loved all this stuff.
And it wasn't ironic.
No.
I absolutely loved it growing up.
I think I went through a phase of cynicism.
And I think we can mock it now a little bit.
But I also think it's like way better than what our culture is going through now.
Well, even the Christian culture, like kids' Christian culture, is not what it was then.
There was like a whole well-developed Christian pop culture.
I'd rather someone eat testaments than watch cuties on Netflix.
I think we could all agree with that.
Yeah.
They're close in my book, but that's good.
Breakfast in Hell.
I don't know that one.
Audio Adrenaline.
Got that one.
Got that one.
That was the newsboys song.
Big, big house.
Well, lots of people.
There's no response, so I just moved on to the next one.
Big, big tape.
It's like we believe that God will punish people eternally for their sin.
And we wrote a song about it, a happy, peppy song.
The newsboys wrote a happy peppy song about it.
You know Breakfast.
Yeah.
No, I don't know.
Oh, you were literally singing it before.
No, he was just singing it.
It was the one, Dan.
Oh, the milk has turned and all the toast has been.
Oh, Captain Crunch is waiting.
Farewell.
Oh, okay.
I do remember it now.
And it's like we write a song about how you won't have Captain Crunch there.
My favorite hell song.
That's how you get the kids.
You take away their promise of Captain Crunch.
No, and then you do one of those like Halloween, what do they call them?
It's coming off the haunted house.
The hell house.
The hell house.
We can just talk about that now.
Oh, okay.
The hell house was.
I never experienced the hell house.
went through a couple of them but the hell room was always the they like would just pump the the heat in there and they would cover the walls with like black trash bags and And it was like, and then having a lot of people.
And the secular version of Haunted House is, you know, which I think people who throw on Haunted House are like, I don't necessarily believe in ghosts or witches or whatever, but this is kind of a fantasy thing.
But Christians are like, we actually believe in hell, and we're going to put you there.
Well, first, you have to go through a you first, you go through a car accident or some such where one person is.
So, like, it's like a car accident.
Ah, you know, like you go in the first room, and it's like somebody dies in a car accident, and then, or two people do, and one goes to heaven and one goes to hell.
So, you're like, somebody goes to the throne room, and then the other person goes to hell.
And then later on, they get resurrected or come back to life.
And they're like, why didn't you tell me?
Why didn't you tell me?
And then it's a chick track that you walk through.
It's an interactive chick track.
It's almost like it's supposed to be a motivation to evangelize to your friends at school so they don't go to hell.
I told the story before, but I visited a friend's youth group, and the youth pastor decided the best object lesson was he had someone shut all the lights off as he pulled out a gun and fired it a bunch of times.
And it was a cap gun or a you know, fire in blanks or what I'm sure it wasn't a real gun, but he was like, sure.
He was firing blanks or real gun bullets.
I don't know.
But he was just like, and he's like, you're all dead.
And then he just thought this was like this powerful moment.
And then he just started talking about how what happens after you die.
You're all dead.
Even you, little guy in the back.
He's not a Mitchell.
He's not a Mitch.
Stop moving around.
Stop it.
Dead.
Throwing sin rocks into the fire.
This is foreign to me.
I don't know.
No, no, no.
This is like it's like the final day of summer camp.
Everybody take your rock.
Okay.
So we used to have at APU.
This is very interesting.
At APU, we used to have its prayer chapel, and I would go in there and pray in there.
I'd actually pray in there a lot because it was a big university.
It was on the way back to my dorm room.
And so I would stop in, and there were all these rocks where you could write what you're struggling with and set it at the foot of the cross.
And so it was kind of a similar thing.
But rocks don't burn.
I was, I know, I was all the camp counselors came out afterwards and looked struggling with lust.
I know it's like 300 rocks that say lust on them.
Porn.
Porn.
No, anyway, so I went through all the one time.
I was just feeling particularly voyeuristic and I was like praying at this at this altar.
And so I was like, started reading the rocks.
I got distracted.
So it was reading the rocks.
No, no, here's the trippy part.
I picked up one, I turned it over, and it was my name.
And then I went through a couple other ones and I picked up another one and it was my name again.
They were all you.
There were two names, two of my name on the rocks at the foot of the cross.
You're saying they're struggling with you?
I don't know what they were saying.
It could have been anything.
I thought that was your rock that you had thrown in.
No, it was my name on a rock that should have a sin.
No, I'm serious.
It was, I so it was very disturbing.
I didn't know what to do.
And so I went back, I told my best friend Nate, I was like, Nate, my name is on the rocks.
We got to find out who's stalking me.
McGee and me.
No, I wasn't a huge fan.
I mean, I'd seen it a few times, but I had the VHS tape where they race on the skateboards.
Yeah.
And we thought it was the most radical thing ever because they were on those old radical things coming up on the list.
They were on those old flat skateboards that had just the one fin.
Yeah.
You know, kind of like the wide nose deal.
And they were like doing a race and they're all wearing elbow pads, knee pads, and a helmet.
Safety.
And like the bully kids are like, yeah, we're so awesome.
And we're going to get you.
And they throw a water balloon on the track and make him slip.
Oh, no.
Yeah.
And I think he ends up winning.
Or no, no.
The bully wins.
And then it's, and then the other, but everybody realized that they cheated.
Oh, spoilers.
Man, no, you cheated.
And they're like getting really watching.
I think we had the justices served in the haunted house one is the one that we had.
Oh, yeah.
It wasn't like a haunted house, but it was like the old man.
I vaguely remember that.
The old man in the neighborhood.
I never did get into Adventures in Odyssey.
I never got into it, but I know the guy who does the music.
The guy who does the music for that.
John Campbell.
Oh, I know him.
Yeah, he's in our neighborhood.
Into it, but we did visit Focus on the Family in Colorado, and they had this whole interactive exhibit and a recording booth where you can be in Adventures and Odyssey.
And we did that when we were kids.
Yeah, they really leaned into Adventures and Odyssey.
It wasn't a bad thing.
It was actually a pretty good thing.
You can still go through it.
They hold up.
More or less.
Remember that show that was like The Last Chance Adventures?
The Last Chance.
I do.
And it was like there was Bigfoot.
It was like Bigfoot out.
It's Bigfoot in the Wilderness.
Or like there was one that was.
Yeah.
You know, remember that name?
John Campbell did the music for that too.
That's why I remember that.
Right.
Last Chance Adventures.
There was another detectives or something like that.
Yeah, that's right.
Last chance.
It was like another family thing.
Kind of Adventures and Odyssey related thing.
Five Iron Frenzy.
I was more of a Reliant K guy.
Sad.
I saw the I saw them once.
They're comis now.
Superbook.
I don't even know what that is.
This is the first time.
Superbook is newer, but it's really pretty good.
It's not newer.
Isn't it?
You must be talking about the reboot.
There is a reboot.
This was like a gritty realistic reboot.
This wasn't actually like an anime.
This was like an anime with never going back to.
No, no, I remember.
Okay, I remember Superbook.
Colby the Computer.
This was what I was talking about.
Then an ad.
They had a skateboarder on there.
They had all the video effects, the strobe effects.
Pa-pa-pa-peer.
Pressure.
Peer, pressure.
Who made up the roohoo?
You gotta keep up the big coohoo.
That was rad.
Pa-pa-pa-peer.
I thought the computer was really advanced at the time.
Like he had a keyboard on him.
He was Colby was my homeboy.
64K of RAM.
No, didn't they do input-output?
Isn't that the song they used?
I don't know, but they did.
Input, output.
Sounded like diagnostic discs.
Especially made for cases.
I'm just going to sing the entire Colby catalog.
We need to do a reboot of Colby.
We did a Colby play at church growing up, and I was in ah, I love Colby.
I think I like Colby more than Salty, if that's not.
I do too, because I didn't really know Salty.
Yeah, we did a couple of plays growing up.
That's one thing that we don't know if that's on here, but there were all those plays for kids.
And we did Surlock Holmes.
He was like searching for truth.
He was like, there was one about Jehoshaphat, Fat Fat, Jehoshaphat.
You guys remember that one?
Fat, Fat, Jehoshaphat.
And he was like, Jehoshaphat only was really fat.
Nick at Knight, you remember that one?
Wait, wasn't Nick at Knight like just on.
No, it was about Nicodemus.
Oh, no, I don't remember that one.
But it's kind of a similar concept.
It's probably all the same company.
It probably is.
Kirk Cameron.
I don't know.
No, I don't know.
I never heard of him.
I don't know that.
Left behind the kids.
Do you remember the kids?
I did read those.
There was like 40 of them.
Yeah, I did read some of them.
Never read.
I read all of them.
They were like this thick each other.
They were like 150-page mini-novels.
Yeah.
It was slightly longer than tracked.
Yeah, and there was like 400 of them.
Frank Peretti.
Oh, man.
Door in the Dragon's Throat.
And the nightmares that I had.
Yeah.
This present darkness.
No, the kids' version, though.
This present darkness scared the crap out of me, though.
Like, I read it in college.
I actually didn't have nightmares.
It was still scary.
But I did, like, I was afraid of the dark for a little bit.
Big budget movie, This Present Darkness, I still think would be awesome.
I think if you shot it right, it would be fun.
That was like when I, as a teenager, when I was like, I want to be a filmmaker, that was like what I wanted to make.
Well, hey, the future is bright.
I actually think we could do that.
But Frank Peretti, there was a group that was trying to make it probably 15 years ago.
I'm sure tons have tried, yeah.
But it would be really difficult to do well.
You'd have to have a budget.
You'd have to have like a bunch of things.
And I think you need director and cinematographer who know what they're doing.
And you need a Ralph Winter.
That's true.
We need Brandon.
You need a lot of money, and you need us.
And a Ralph Winter.
And a Ralph Winter.
Yeah.
Bible Adventures for DNES.
By the way, I think.
Oh, I was only aware of Super 3D Noah's Arc.
That was Super Nintendo?
Or was it Computer?
Super Nintendo.
Definitely Doom, exactly Doom, but you were shooting Brad at animals.
I've mentioned this before, but there was a computer game called Katekuman, where you actually hold the sword of the spirit like this, and you shoot spirit power at Roman soldiers.
And if you hit them enough times, they fall on the ground on their knees, and it goes, Hallelujah!
Just like how I evangelize that seems like a good evangelism tech.
We also had Joshua for Game Boy, and it was weird because it was like this.
I guess Game Boy had their proprietary Game Boy cartridges.
Yeah.
And so, since this was like a third-party knockoff, totally low-budget thing, like they didn't have a thing over the contact points, a sleeve over the contact points.
It was like a strangely shaped cartridge that was because it was basically a bootleg trying to get it onto the Game Boy.
So, mostly, I mean, I remember the Bible stuff for Nintendo.
Nintendo had a couple of cartridges games that were Bible-oriented, but I never played them.
I always thought that stuff was boring.
When I was like in high school, I was really, I was really like interested in trying to find a good Christian computer game because it was like that's what I wanted to do when I grew up.
I was like, I want to develop Christian entertainment on the computer or whatever.
And I played tons of them, and they were all terrible.
I don't think I ever found a good one.
Let's make an updated Super 3D nose arc on the Unreal Engine.
Yes.
Oh, that's a good idea.
Somebody actually had a good pitch for one that was an RPG set before the flood.
So they used a lot of like fantasy elements and it was like pitched like Morrowind before the flood and writing dinosaurs with the rock cream.
The dinosaurs were in it.
Rock creatures.
Of course, it never came together.
The watchers.
Bible trivia board games.
Anyone play these growing up?
No, dude.
I never played them.
Okay.
But I will say a little quick asides.
Bibles to apples.
Bible apples to apples is one of the worst games.
Oh, not good.
Because instead of having fun, you're just having theological debates as to why you should pick my card and why this is.
Sounds like Dan would enjoy that.
Getting scared that you were left behind because your mom went to the mailbox to get it.
Happened to me twice.
One of them.
Men walking up a hill one disappeared and wants standing still.
I wish we'd all been ready.
We're going to get so many copyrights right now.
We sound exactly like the original recording.
I wish we'd all been.
Remember that was Chris?
That was Kevin Max.
WWJD bracelets.
Wait.
WWJD bracelets.
I don't know if I had one.
Sorry that I sounded like that.
You might have heard yourself.
No, I think that the left behind thing was the real thing, and I got left behind once.
You think that you actually did?
Well, no.
I mean, I was like, when I got home, and the crazy thing about it was the guy up the street was a big elk hunter.
And so I ran outside.
That is the thing.
That's how all Jared's stories sound to start.
So I, you know.
So I was driving up to Red Mountain.
Yeah.
In a panic.
I run out in front of my house out into the middle of the cul-de-sac that we lived on.
And what I hear, instead of like, what normally you would hear, I hear this.
I thought the trumpets, I was like, that's the trumpet.
I fell on my knees and I ran up the street because I thought for sure, like, I fell on him and I was like, Lord.
And then I was like, wait a minute, I got to see where that's coming from.
So I ran up the street and I turned the corner and the guy was blowing on this elk horn.
So I feel like.
Jesus?
I feel like the Lord was like, Jarrett, you need to get your crap together.
This is a close one.
I like the idea that when Jesus comes back, it's going to sound like a duck call.
I don't know what a I don't know what a shofar sounds.
You know, like at this point, we're not in a Pentecostal church or something.
WWJD bracelets.
Okay.
I had those.
I had them.
I don't think I had one.
But I might have.
I might have.
Possibly.
Frog, Forever Rely on.
I remember that acronym.
I do remember that.
It should have been What is Jesus Doing, though?
It should have been WIJD.
That doesn't, you know, theologically.
Purity rings.
I have one.
Yep.
Had one.
I did not have a ring, but I did make the commitment.
Sometimes.
Yeah.
And it had like a picture of a heart and a key on it, but like it also looked like a pretzel.
So when people asked what it was, I was like, it's a pretzel.
So a heart and a key.
So it had a heart.
When you were ashamed, you were like, oh, it's a pretzel.
It's all this.
Mine said, I am my beloveds, and my beloved is mine.
I actually liked the purity ring thing.
People mock that, but it wasn't.
I thought that was a good idea, right?
I don't mind purity culture.
I think it's good.
How about that song that went, Yes, Lord, yes, Lord, yes, yes, Lord, for 79 hours.
Oh, yeah, I remember that one.
Yeah, I didn't love that song.
Redemption CCG.
Yes, Lord.
Anybody else play Redemption CCG?
We did.
We had that.
This was the baptized version of Magic the Gathering, the card.
Oh, I never got into it.
I had a youth leader that convinced me to burn all of my Magic the Gathering cards.
Because you could play this one and it wouldn't summon demons.
Yes.
Well, you actually still did.
That was the weird thing.
You had to play enemy cards to stop the other guy.
So you were like, oh, you want to save that soul?
Lust.
I meant IRL.
It doesn't summon real demons.
Right, it doesn't summon real magic.
It's just on the cards.
So Magic the Gathering literally summons every time you play it.
The funny thing to me is that Magic the Gathering is a fantasy world, you know?
So it's like you're just doing that in the confines of that.
Where Redemption is actually talking about real things like saving souls.
And so it's actually a little more.
That's the weird part about combining fantasy with Christianity.
It's weird because you can't.
We all believe all these things.
DC talk.
Of course.
Now you could do your impression.
Let's see.
How?
How?
That one.
No, I was thinking of my impression.
No.
Oh, oh, oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
That was old.
That's old.
Some people gotta learn the hard way.
I'm down with the one who's known as the son from the D to the O to the D, never done.
Never tried it.
Down with the DC tour.
Down with the DC tour.
I used to love that.
I love rapid?
Yeah, there is.
I had them for a little bit.
I had like satellite and the first album, that big out, the album that went big, that was the one that satellite, I think.
Was that?
No, it was before that.
Okay.
We are in the middle of South Town, I think it was called.
Yeah.
South Town and The Youth of a Nation.
Little Susie, she was only 12.
Yeah, yeah.
She was given the world with the fat stack.
I remember that was like one of the first CDs that I bought at a non-Christian bookstore because they had it there.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, that was kind of that weird crossover: like, are they Christian?
Are they not?
Are they?
Yeah, that was always a kind of fun game to play.
It's like, I think they're Christians.
Speaking of Switchfoot, I liked the one song that they had.
The first album was good.
I actually literally walked out of a Switchfoot concert before.
Yeah, they're prolific.
Over what?
They're prolific.
The thing is, they're my favorite.
It was a Reliant K slash Switchfoot concert.
I went to go see Reliant K, and Switchfoot was playing, and I had work to do.
So I just left.
So it wasn't like, not John Foreman's a heretic.
No, It was literally just, oh, I have stuff to do.
And I'm not a really huge fan of Switchfoot, so the Nothing is Sound album is a masterpiece.
I think it's one of the best albums ever made.
There are some really good songs.
I think they had some really good songs on that one.
I think they were one of the few from a lyrical perspective that can write stuff that you know is like pointing to this eternal truth or just Christian truth, but it's not on the nose like Jesus, I love you.
Right.
Like they don't say Jesus, and I like that.
It's kind of like Sufion.
I mean, Sufion Stevens is sort of on the sand.
I heard you.
I kissed Dating Goodbye.
Dude, that Josh Harris is full of crap, man.
He is.
But I will say that, I mean, like we were talking about purity culture, I think a lot of it still applies.
Maybe not all of it, but some of it.
Yeah, I didn't understand the whole thing.
I was harmed by this.
Well, it's the transaction.
You were harmed by the message not dating around.
No, you were harmed by your own stupidity.
Well, yeah, I agree with that.
My problem is, like, with I Kiss Dating Goodbye, they kind of preach this transactional thing where if you do this, then God will bless you with a great sex life.
That was the same thing.
That was not part of the.
They're like, no, no, if you wait, it's way better.
Like it's like every youth pastor I ever worked for me.
Hallelujah parties.
This is related to the hell house.
What is a hallelujah party?
I don't know what that is.
Like a Halloween party.
Oh, Hallelujah.
Autumn Festival.
Autumn Festival.
It's an autumn festival.
A harvest festival.
Harvest Festival.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, we got a couple more here.
Christian knockoffs of jazzer size.
I never did it.
I feel like my mom, like, I feel like the ladies in our church were always going to exercise classes, but they played praise music instead of.
Well, yeah.
So my mother-in-law has taught step aerobics for 30 years.
And she always throws gospel music in it.
Gospel size.
She's still doing it.
And the final one is Christian Knockoffs of the Onion.
Yeah, I don't know.
Why did they even try?
What's that?
Stop.
It's just so cringe.
So not funny.
Just because just because they have bigger numbers doesn't mean they're better.
Yeah, that's true.
Just because more people talk about it.
Kirk Cameron is here, so here we go.
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Can I just say that I'm really honored to be here with you guys?
I have laughed so hard at so many of your jokes, even the ones where you guys poke at me.
It just cracks me up.
And my kids love it.
And it's really an honor to be here in person with you guys.
Go on.
We'll wait.
The honor is shared.
I'm actually, I'm very honored to be in here.
Yeah, it's really exciting.
This is so cool.
We mostly wanted to pick your brain because it's cool to have famous people out, you know, and you were married to, or not married, your sister is a famous person, having been on Full House.
So what's that like?
Well, that's actually what makes me famous with a lot of young people today is they say, hey, hey, they say to their daughter, like, that's Kirk Cameron.
And the kids are like, who?
What's it?
Growing pains, growing, what?
He's DJ's brother from Full House.
Oh, my gosh, can I have your autograph?
And then I become somebody important to me.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
So it was, you know, we didn't have a different normal family to compare our life to.
So for us, this was our normal.
I was on Growing Pains.
A couple of years later, my sister's on the TV show Full House.
And, you know, some of my buddies are working at McDonald's and I'm working at Warner Brothers.
It was weird at times where you're going outside and people suddenly start asking for your autograph and then there's like weird stalker moments and other kinds of things.
But for me, it was my life.
It was my normal.
And it was pretty cool.
I look back on it and I think, wow, I'm sure glad God got a hold of me at 17 because I could have gone down other roads so easily.
And I'm really thankful that does it.
Well, I'm sure you've seen that.
Like, I don't know.
You see the Disney Channel and they just kind of turn kids out.
Like, you know, a headline one year is like, new Disney Channel star.
And then five years later, it's like, this kid's in rehab or, you know, Corey Haim, Corey Faux, right?
And River Phoenix, even my friend Josh, who played my buddy Boner on Growing Pains.
Yeah, for sure.
He's not here anymore.
So there's all sorts of all sorts of demons and dark places that you can go to and encounter when you're a young kid with lots of money and have access to anything and people want to take you there.
If you don't have outside influences like good friends or good family or the Holy Spirit protecting you and guiding you in other ways, it's very easy to get lost.
Now, you became a Christian when you were 17.
And I know you've probably shared your testimony before, but I'm interested because you were kind of insulated from that stuff.
How did it get to you?
How did you hear the gospel for the first time?
I was insulated from...
Oh, I mean, you were in Hollywood.
You were kind of not surrounded by that.
Maybe you were.
I don't know.
What was your relationship to Christ, religion, all that stuff before?
So I did not grow up in a Christian home, never went to church, never talked about God and my family.
In fact, I was a professing atheist until I was about 17 and a half years old.
So I thought that Jesus was part of a different trinity, the Easter bunny, the tooth fairy, and God.
And I just thought it was ridiculous, the idea that there was someone up there hiding behind the clouds, keeping track of the good and bad, sort of like a Santa Claus figure with a list of who's naughty or nice.
I loved science.
I love biology.
I loved studying those kinds of things.
And so for me, there was just no evidence that God exists.
And even if you do want to believe in God, which religion are you going to go with?
I mean, you could go with all these different religions and sacred texts.
And then I met a really cute girl on the set of Growing Pains.
And she invited me to meet her family one weekend.
And I thought, hey, this is my chance.
She's really cute.
And the meeting place was at church.
And this was a church in California called Fullerton E.V. Free.
And Chuck Swindahl was the pastor.
For sure.
I didn't know who he was.
And I went there.
I heard a message.
He presented the gospel.
It left me with a head full of questions.
And I started studying Josh McDowell, evidence that demands a verdict.
I would ask her father lots of questions about God, evolution, the Bible, dinosaurs, Noah's Ark, reincarnation, the resurrection, the virgin birth.
And he was pretty good at answering those questions.
And then he gave me a little book by Josh McDowell called More Than a Carpenter.
That really helped me to open the door intellectually to examine the claims of Jesus and for the resurrection.
And he said to me, Kirk, if you really want to know if God is there, you need to go to him and talk to him, not ask other people about him.
And I thought, well, how do I, can you set up that meeting?
And he was like, well, you just have to go to him on his terms, which are humility and faith.
I didn't have much of either one.
And it was important that he said that to me because I think it put the whole encounter in perspective.
At that time, I was Mike Seaver.
I was on top of my game.
I was the big man on campus.
And so if you wanted to meet with me, you'd go through my managers and agents and you'd have to come to me on my terms.
But he was pointing out that if I was going to talk to the creator of the universe, I would not be the celebrity in that relationship.
And I remember sitting in my sports car parked on the side of the road, thinking about the fact that one day I would die and I would find out if what that preacher said is true.
And if there is a heaven, I knew that I would not be going.
And so I thought, what will it hurt for me to just try?
And so I closed my eyes in, you know, trying to assume the proper position for prayer.
I didn't know why people close their eyes, but I just figured it was some magic trick that sent the prayers up to heaven.
And so I just said, God, if you're there, would you please show me?
I want to know.
If I'm headed down the wrong road, open my eyes, make me the man that I'm supposed to be.
I opened my eyes and I didn't see a vision of Jesus on the windshield.
The Holy Spirit didn't rush in through the air conditioning events.
I just had this feeling that something had changed inside me and I wanted to know.
And I felt about, you know, this big, the size of a speck of sand in comparison to the creator of the universe.
And I told a friend about that.
He invited me to church.
Somebody gave me a Bible.
I started to read it.
And it was like the Bible was reading me.
I began to want to know more and more.
And I got more and more of my questions answers and eventually decided that Jesus appears to be who he claims to be.
And I believe that God is changing me on the inside.
And that was the beginning of my spiritual story and my walk with Jesus.
And that was like 35, 40 years ago.
And I look back after all these years and I'm so grateful.
I'm so thankful.
I think after all the questions that have been answered and all the different options available to me, I think that my faith in Jesus Christ has been well placed.
Amen.
That's great.
Who would win in a fight?
You or Kevin Sorbo?
Well, judging by this based, judging on this picture, by this picture behind me of Kevin Sorbo, I think I would lose miserably.
I agree.
I agree with that assessment.
Yeah, I think so.
You're a nice guy, but I mean.
He's Hercules.
Yeah.
Let's be honest here.
I mean, he's tall, too.
He's got a lot of reach.
Yeah, he does.
He does have a lot of reach.
You know?
You'd have to get on the inside.
Yeah, but I could probably, but I'm Scooty.
And so I could just wear him out.
Does that mean you're like scrappy or not?
I'm scrappy.
I move fast.
I'm slippery.
You can jump on his back.
Yeah, that kind of thing.
I could just, he probably couldn't go more than three rounds.
Monkey stop.
Oh, yeah.
Just try to wear him out.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It was kind of like Mayweather and McGregor.
That whole fight.
You know, he just sort of like, you know, tucked into his turtle shell and he just sort of like, you know, waited, just wore him out too many rounds.
And then he, then he, then he, well.
I'm pretty sure Connor McGregor was pulling punches.
He was not using his own style.
Right.
I mean, let's just be honest.
Connor should have won that fight.
He should have.
You know, he even got a couple blows to the back of the head.
Yeah.
And when he started.
I could do that to him.
He started doing the hammer fists.
I'm sorry.
We can talk about this.
I did that with Sorbo, though.
I don't know.
I don't know.
So you become a Christian.
Does that immediately set up this conflict between what you do for a living and your new faith?
I mean, like, how did you see that?
I didn't understand that there would be a big conflict because when I first became a Christian, I felt like the guy who just dug up the pearl of great price, he found this great treasure.
And I'm thinking, hey, Mormon book.
Is that a Morgan book?
No, no, no.
Oh, that's a different part.
Okay.
Oh, yeah, I know.
That's right.
Matthew, Matthew.
I'm sorry.
I interrupted you.
That's right.
That's one of the four books of the quad, isn't it?
You have doctrines and covenants and you have the pearl.
Book of Mormon.
Yeah.
So I felt like when I discovered forgiveness of sin and eternal life, I thought, man, I got to tell everybody.
Hey, everybody in Hollywood, you got to know about this Jesus and this gospel.
Well, I then realized that not everybody had the same level of excitement that I did.
And so I actually kind of hold myself up in my dressing room trailer for quite a while and began handwriting out the scriptures on parchment paper, thinking that, because I was into apologetics.
And so documentary evidence and historical reliability of the scriptures was a big thing for me.
And so I thought, I'm going to do like the old days.
I'm going to like write out some like handwritten copies of the scriptures and give this to my kids one day.
And, you know, my lifestyle started to change.
I wasn't cussing and swearing and doing all the things that I was doing before I became a Christian.
And I thought all this would be sort of embraced by my friends and other people in Hollywood.
But I think they just thought this is like cultish and weird.
You're just weird.
Yeah.
Like you're no fun anymore.
Like, come on, what's going on?
And so that was my first taste of it.
And it wasn't like I ever felt like my objective now is to be, you know, to remove myself from Hollywood and secularism.
I just wanted to pursue things that I was passionate about.
And so when the left behind script came along, it happened to be at a time when I was reading the book for the very first time myself, and they wanted me to come audition for this.
And I thought, holy cow, this is great.
I see how this is working.
God's opening up a door over here.
I'll go down this road.
My managers didn't want me to go down that road, but I did.
And I was like, you know, I'm living for an audience of one now.
And you narrowly beat Nick Cage out for the part.
Yes.
Yes.
He was pretty ticked when I got the role of Buck Williams.
Could you beat Nick Cage up in a fight?
You know, this is a good line of thinking.
I like this.
Kevin Sorbo and Nick Cage and Nick Cameron in a cage, who would win?
Yeah.
We need a segment.
We need a segment called Cage Match.
Nick Cage Match.
Could you beat up Nick Cage?
But, you know, it's beautiful as I look back in the rearview mirror on a career that could have very easily gone in a different direction.
I had plans.
I had stuff I wanted to do.
I actually wanted to, I never really wanted to become an actor in the first place.
I wanted to be a doctor.
I wanted to be a surgeon.
I wanted to be like Ben Carson.
That's the direction I wanted to go, medical school.
Or Dr. Jill Biden.
Okay.
Yeah.
Right.
You know, a doctor.
Yeah, yeah.
So when I look back, I say, wow, so many things happened in my life that I didn't plan.
God's plans were so much better.
I wanted to be an atheist.
God had different plans for me.
I wanted to be a doctor.
God had plans for me to be an actor.
Even meeting my wife was so out of the blue.
Who would have thought that as a Christian, you would meet a woman of faith and character who loves family, loves the truth, and would be faithful to me on the set of a TV sitcom in Hollywood.
And there she was.
So my career is similar.
It's not what I wanted, but I look back and go, man, I've been a part of projects that I'm passionate about from fireproof to monumental to meeting Ray Comfort and the way the Matt, all that stuff changed my life for the better.
And I didn't have any of it in mind.
So the Lord took you from Hollywood to all this other stuff.
It's just an amazing process.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He surrendered your life and he led you in all kinds of different directions.
Yeah.
It's interesting.
It sounds organic to you.
Like just this is what God has pulled me towards because it changes your desires and your passions.
Right.
That's right.
It's not a like, I'm making this decision.
I'm going to go.
And even right now, it's kind of like I still feel like I'm flying by the seat of my pants here and I don't have this master plan.
I want to.
I'm a planner.
I'm very analytical in the way that I think about things.
And if you failed a plan, you plan to fail kind of thing.
But all my plans rarely work out the way that I think that they will.
So even going forward, I think, what am I going to do?
You know, what am I going to do when my talk show runs out?
What am I going to do when I'm between jobs again?
But God continues to open up doors, and it's this great journey of trusting him throughout all of this.
And it's really, it's really cool.
Well, I'm glad to know that even when I'm your age, I won't know what I'm doing.
Yeah.
That makes me sound so old, doesn't it?
When I'm over your age, it's good to know.
In a few decades, you're an Xer.
You're an Xer, right?
Am I an Xer?
I think.
So I was born in 1970.
What does that make me?
Yeah, eugenics.
Yeah, you're an Eugene.
Okay.
That's good.
Old Genesis.
We're millennials.
We're millennials.
Yeah.
You're probably borderline.
I'm on the edge.
It's kind of a lot of it's like with the music that you attach to growing up.
I think that kind of defines your generation.
80s music and then grunge.
Like, if that was you, that's.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And the seven, I mean, I mean, let's, let's be honest.
The 70s and 80s, they had the best music.
I mean, it was just, it was just 70s, 80s.
But I, but I, but I found it later because I, you know, I found it.
You could find it later.
Yeah, I found it later.
Yeah.
And it's like a record.
90s had some great music.
And I mean, I suppose every generation has got some, but you know, my kids are discovering the 80s now for the first time.
And they're like, oh my gosh, daddy, how do you know this song?
How old are you kidding?
Bro, I'm like, you know, OG dad here.
I'm cool, man.
I was there when the deep magic.
I'm cool.
I'm hip.
I'm with it.
Yeah.
So anyway, how old are your kids?
Are they teenagers?
How old are they?
So my wife and I, for those who don't know, I married my on-screen girlfriend.
So when I was on Growing Pains, Chelsea played Mike Seaver's girlfriend.
And behind the scenes, we had this little romance going.
And then on the last year of Growing Pains, we actually got married.
And we've been married now for 31 years and we have six children.
Okay.
And our kids are 19, 21, 22, 23, 24, and 25.
Oh, wow.
That's it.
That's a so that's kind of like the Ready Bunch.
We're, you know, three, three boys, three girls.
Single-handedly overpopulating the earth right here.
Well, yeah, we're going to bring him out.
It's all his fault.
It's all happening here.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure we, with all the diapers that we shut down a couple of landfills, I think.
Anyway, so when you met Ray Comfort, did he immediately show you the way of the master dojo?
That was a perfect setup.
I'm sorry.
Yes, I'm just picturing Ray Comfort in a gi.
Yeah.
It's a funny picture.
We have a funny picture in my mind.
Don't have an article.
We have a Photoshop of that somewhere.
That's right.
That he was my Mr. Miyagi.
And he showed me the way of the master.
Danny Sam and Miyagi.
So Ray Comfort, the first time I actually learned of Ray Comfort was at a conference where the Left Behind movie was being promoted.
And some dude comes up to me.
He's waiting in this autograph line.
And he said, he just looks at me with this CD in his hand.
And he's like, you need to listen to this.
And he puts it out in front of me.
And I go, I'm like, oh, thanks, man.
People give me a lot of CDs and books and stuff.
And I went to go take it and he wouldn't let go of it.
And I was looking at him like, bro, what are you doing?
And he's like, I won't give this to you unless you promise to listen to it.
I was like, okay.
We kind of had a little moment there, locking eyes.
And I took it and I saw the title said, Hell's Best Kept Secret.
And I thought, well, that's a great title.
What's the devil's secret that he doesn't want me to know?
So I listened to it one day and it just rocked my world.
And I called.
And did you like look up and then the man had disappeared?
Kind of.
Kind of.
I think that's how I remember it.
And then I called the number on the back of the CD and I just talked to Ray Comfort on the phone and I said, Could I come have lunch with you?
And we met for lunch and Ray was practicing the way of the master right out of the gates.
He's like, he can't, he kind of can't help himself.
I think even if he tries to go out on a date with his wife, he's got to be passing out little magic trick gospel tracts to the booth next to them.
As we were walking to the table, the hostess was taking us there.
Ray kind of made a detour and he was handing out little optical illusion gospel tracts to everybody in the restaurant.
And I'm looking at this guy going, what is he doing?
And I was so embarrassed about what he was doing, handing out these little, you know, Jesus tickets to people.
But I noticed that everybody was looking at these optical illusions and laughing and asking him for more.
And he was passing out more and more and more.
And I thought, okay, well, I wasn't expecting that.
And we got into a conversation that lasted a couple of hours and it resulted in us traveling around, speaking at churches together, sharing this message because I thought it was so important.
And Ray changed my life.
Ray changed the way I shared the gospel.
He might have even got me saved.
I would have been a Christian for quite a while, but I had never actually had someone share the gospel with me the way that Ray had, using the Ten Commandments to bring the knowledge of sin.
And so I actually witnessed to myself, sort of like, I was like talking to myself, going, Hey, Kirk, have you ever told a lie?
Hey, Kirk, have you ever stolen anything?
Well, you're a lying thief.
And it was powerful to me.
Yeah.
Did you do the accent?
No, I wasn't so good at the accent, but you're really good at the accent.
He's good at it.
Yeah.
I've worked on it.
And it so impacted me that I went.
I remember that my grandmother was in a nursing home and I didn't know whether or not she knew the Lord.
And so I thought, I got to go down there and witness to her using these Ten Commandments.
So I got one of those Ten Commandment pennies that Ray prints.
And I went down there and I was really nervous because I was about to ask my grandmother if she's ever looked with lust.
And then I was going to have to call her.
This is awkward.
It's very awkward, grandma, but be specific.
And I was like, Grandma, by your own admission, you're a lying thief and an adulterer at heart.
Does grandpa know about this?
I'm not judging you.
No, no.
But that encounter with Ray Comfort really changed the way that I understood the gospel and how to share it with people.
And so we worked together for 10, 15 years after that.
That's great.
Did you ever get tricked by one of the million-dollar gospel tracks?
Like, think it was real money?
No.
Has that ever happened?
I was onto it from the beginning.
I was there with you.
You can spot the printing?
I was there during the conference.
You could be blindfolded and feel them and go past the gospel.
Probably that type of thing.
Because I know the way of the master.
That's good.
Man, that's so funny.
I actually had an interesting, kind of a similar, well, I obviously didn't go into ministry with Ray Comfort, but he was down at Third Street Promenade doing his evangelism thing when I was a freshman in high school, in college.
I went down to go see him, and I remember he wrote about this particular night in one of his books because on that night, Arnold Schwarzenegger was around and Pauly Shore was there arguing with Ray Comfort.
Pauly Shore and Ray Comfort were having a conversation.
It sounds like a dream.
Hey, what?
I know.
And then all of a sudden, Pauli Shore.
The guy from the Bee Gees.
The guy from the Bee Gees shows up.
The Monopoly guy.
Anyway, so we ended up just like, I watched this conversation between Ray Comfort and Pauly Shore.
And Pauly Shore was trying to make jokes and make fun of him.
But Ray was so sincere.
And so then I got up on the microphone and I was like, but isn't it about God's love?
And you were talking to Ray, not Paul Short.
So finally, I was, yeah, because Pauli Shore Shore had moved on.
And so I was like, I realized I forgot my pants.
So anyway, so I went up and I started talking to Ray Comfort.
Because of the dream.
And yeah, because it's the dream.
Yeah.
And he convinced me, like in that conversation, he's like, no, he's like, God's judgment and God's love are tied.
And I didn't understand that concept.
So this guy came up to me that had been saved through the ministry and he was like, you know, he's like, son, you got to hear this.
Here's a tape.
I want you to go home and listen to it.
So I went home and I listened to it, and I think it was hell's best kept secret.
It was the same man and he disappeared.
He disappeared.
The same guy.
That's right.
And he wouldn't let go of it until you said you.
But it convinced me that a lot of what my professors are saying, a lot of the things that I was hearing, some of the more progressive ideas were wrong.
I think the biggest change for me was like evangelism always felt high pressure where I have to convert them right now or it's a failure.
And I think the biggest thing with Ray Comfort's, you know, the way of the Masta is like if you proclaim God's truth and you're faithful to that, then it's a success, you know, regardless of how the person is.
You plant the seed.
You plant the seed.
God causes you to be aware of that.
But just from also just a practical, logical level, a doctor doesn't have to really work too hard to give a cancer patient chemotherapy if he takes the time to show him the x-ray and the patient becomes convinced he has the disease.
Then he wants it, right?
Then the doctor's just like, here you go.
And that's what Ray has always pointed out to us: that until a person understands that they have the disease of sin, and that's the hardest part is because everybody believes that, hey, I'm good.
I'll do more bad, more good than bad.
I don't need a savior.
I don't need a crucified Messiah to get into heaven.
But once they understand that, and that's what the law brings, it's like a mirror to show us our sin, then it's like, hey, there's an answer.
There's a cure.
There's a solution.
And it's the gospel.
And people are like, thank you.
I've shared the gospel with people on airplanes this way, which, by the way, is a great place to share the gospel because you're 30,000 feet up in the air.
You know, they're stuck.
They can't get away.
And I oppose this.
If anybody talks to me on an airplane, no.
On the record, Kyle is a guest.
Headphones in.
Don't worry about it.
I've seen Ray actually come toward an end of a flight and he's not yet witnessed to the guy next to him because he's sleeping, the other guy's sleeping.
And I've seen Ray actually mock, like, like create fake turbulence to wake the guy up so that he can, he'll actually like shake his chair.
That sounds close.
So the guy wakes up so that he can share that.
That sounds like lying to me, Ray.
Have you ever lied?
Have you ever woken somebody up from a nap?
That's right.
And fake turbulence.
With fake turbulence.
But the other thing that's great about what Ray points out, so often today we hear that it's the kindness of God that leads us to repentance.
But if you look at the context of that verse in Romans, you'll find that it's sandwiched between two verses of harsh wrath.
Every time you sin, you're storing up wrath for yourself that will be revealed on the day of judgment, Paul says in Romans.
And then it says, the kindness of God leads you to repentance.
So the idea, it's not just, oh, just be kind to people and that will make them repent.
No, the idea is you have wrath hanging over your head because of your wickedness and your evil deeds.
And it's the kindness of God to give you time to repent.
He's leading you to repentance before it falls on you on the day of judgment.
So it's really not the sugary, sappy sweetness that leads you to, it's an understanding that God is kind in his patience.
He's waiting for you to repent.
And he's giving you judgment.
And feeling the wrath of God is actually the same.
That's the kindness.
That's it.
He's leading you to repentance by being patient and not snuffing you out now.
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You know, I love that at the Babylon Bee, you guys don't just make fun of silly things, but that you guys dive deep into topics like hermeneutics and theology, eschatology, all sorts of things, which is so great because you appeal to the broad spectrum within the church.
The intellectuals, you know, the cultural, you know, people who are just doing silly things and the arts and everything else.
So it's super cool.
Well, I think, you know, I think it's like there's been this perception that Christians don't have a sense of humor or we're not good at art or we're not good at whatever.
We're not good at making movies.
You know, that's kind of like the good looking.
Yeah.
We can't make fun of ourselves.
I think that's we started making fun of ourselves, like making fun of you.
And, you know.
Oh, yeah.
Like that's, I think when they see that we can make fun of you, like one of our own, you know, it's like they're like, oh, these guys are cool, you know?
It's kind of those self-deprecating ones that give us the ability permission to do the ones that are more scathing.
But you do it with skill in a way that continues to honor Christ.
Maybe there's been times where you feel like maybe we missed the mark there, but I have seen particularly Christian movies that try to be funny by making fun of themselves, but I have a sneaking suspicion that these are people who actually mock the word of God.
No, I agree.
Most of the Christian comedies I've seen are like that.
What's a good example of one of those?
Oh, bro.
Oh, gosh, there was a movie that I saw and I can't even remember it, but it was not only mocking of Christianity, sort of like, you know, the pray the gay away camps for people who are struggling with same-sex attraction.
And, you know, it was like, it was just so badly, badly handled.
But then there were also like lewd and, you know, smutty things.
You got a tone.
You can always tell from the tone here.
That you could tell.
Like this, these weren't people who were really living as though Jesus were precious to them, but looking to mock and undermine the church and then get away with it by going, hey, we're just making jokes.
We're just kidding around.
Yeah, but you guys are a different, you're cut from a different cloth, and I appreciate that.
Well, you've got this new movie out coming out.
Leufmark.
So excited about it.
And awesome pro-life message about adoption.
And the documentary was, I lived on Parker Avenue, I think that was based on.
I lived on Park Avenue.
Is that Parker Avenue?
I lived on Parker Avenue.
Parker Avenue.
What I love about this movie, and it's unique for a Kendrick Brothers movie.
So the Kendrick brothers, we partnered together.
They made Fireproof, which we did 10 years ago.
This is the first time that we've connected again in a feature film like this.
They went on to make War Room and Courageous.
But this one is not a movie with an overt gospel presentation in the middle of it.
This is based on a true story and the value of life is just so obvious when you watch the story.
Not because somebody says so, but because you see the agony of the decision that this young girl made about what's best for her and her child and her boyfriend.
And then you see the joy of a brand new couple looking to start a family.
And then you see what that young life turned into and all the other lives that he affects.
Just go, wow, life is so important.
Our decisions impact not just us, but so many other people, generations of people.
So, so, um, well, the scene where she's at the abortion clinic.
I got there's a flashback when she's trying to decide whether or not to do it.
Most powerful scene in the movie, other than the scene where the Kendrick brother gets to ride the ATV.
Yeah, that was right.
Which we're starting to think that the whole movie was just an excuse.
He wanted to go skydiving.
Skydiving and riding in an ATV.
That's right.
Alex actually crashed in the filming of that.
There was a Kendrick that was actually harmed in the making.
Oh, no.
So it says at the end, one Kendrick was harmed.
I think we have that in small parts somewhere.
Oh, man.
But I would love to share how this movie came about.
Somebody sent me on my phone a link to a little documentary called I Lived on Parker Avenue.
And I didn't want to watch it, but I heard it was about adoption.
And my wife and I adopted our first four children.
Oh, wow.
And my wife is an adopted child.
So when she came home that day, I said, hey, I got this.
She's like, you know, what was your day like?
I'm like, oh, somebody sent me this link.
She's like, you should watch that.
And I didn't really want to watch it because I had other things going on.
And she's.
I'm glad to know you're the same as me.
When you get a link to a really long video, your first instinct is to just ignore it.
Just pretend like it doesn't exist.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, I can justify ignoring it.
I've got 10 others that I have to watch too.
She said, no, you should watch it.
And I was like, really?
She's like, yeah, you need to watch that.
And, you know, I know what that means.
It's like, she's going to ask me later if I watched it.
So I needed to watch it.
And I did.
And I'm telling you, I was ugly face crying in my kitchen watching this on my little Google Home thing.
And my son even walked into the kitchen.
He's like, hey, and he saw my face and he just turned around and walked out because he knew there was no talking to dad right now.
Dad's crying.
Weird.
Oh, it was just such raw emotion as I saw this birth mother wrestling with what am I going to say to my child that I haven't seen in 19 years?
Is he going to hate my guts and ask me why I wasn't worth it?
Why I gave him away?
And oh, and so anyway, I talked to my wife.
I talked to my friend.
We wanted to turn this into a movie, but I called the Kendricks first because they have more experience.
And I said, guys, am I crazy or is this a good idea?
They said, well, so you're crazy, but it's a good idea.
Well, you're crazy, but it is a good idea.
And they said, and we've never done this before.
We come up with our own ideas.
We don't really partner with other production companies to do films, but we want to make this movie with you.
And I said, awesome.
Let's go do it.
And so we got the rights and we began putting the script together.
And really, we hardly had to write the script because we just followed the real story.
And I don't think we could have written something so powerful.
And even the lines coming out of the actors' mouths were just transcriptions of interviews with the real people.
And so again, this is a story of an 18-year-old girl who rolls off of the abortion table.
She changes her mind at the last minute, hides the pregnancy and the birth for nine months, places her child for adoption and never tells anybody.
And then 19 years later, he reaches out and wants to meet her.
And we have the actual footage of this taking place of him driving up into the driveway, her running out the front door of her house and them embracing for the first time.
And all the hopes and fears and questions come about and the adoptive parents who just want to meet her too and just thank her for giving them their son.
And then he meets his birth father.
And then he finds out he has brothers and sisters.
It's just an incredible story.
And you guys saw it.
So you know, it's just like a Kendrick movie with heart and humor and action and deep.
By the way, the kid you guys cast.
The kid you guys cast is wonderful.
He's a really good actor.
Yeah.
He did a great job.
He did.
Yeah, he did a great job.
And you know, like a young Kurt Cameron.
Yeah, it's like he reminds me of someone.
And there's some secret actors in the movie, too.
Do you know that the real birth mother plays one of the roles in the film?
She plays the old son.
Yes.
And then the real guy that was when they reached you stayed?
Yeah, we stayed the free credits.
We were waiting for like the superhero like mid-credits reveal that one at the end with Captain America.
Yeah.
So I'm super excited.
Yeah.
Guys, think of this.
Who would have thought that in our lifetime Roe versus Wade would be gone?
Oh, I know.
Amazing.
We made this movie starting two and a half years ago.
It was delayed by COVID.
Oh, gotcha.
And now, on the heels of the Supreme Court decision, here comes a movie right into the theaters that celebrates the value of life in the womb and the beauty of adoption.
I mean, how do we do that?
Did we show you our Tumblr?
This is Conservative Tears of Joy.
Yeah.
Because of Roe v. Wade.
Roe v. Wade overturned.
I love this.
Yes.
We're hoping liberals buy it.
Oh, man.
Have you sent a case of those over to the Daily Wire?
We have not yet, but we will do that.
We should.
You need to.
There's some other goodies in there too for you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Some other goodies.
Yeah.
Yeah.
They would love that.
So one thing we noticed in the film is there was a lot of blue and yellow.
One character always were yellow.
There wasn't just blue and yellow.
There was red.
This is a source spot.
And there was orange.
No, no, there wasn't orange.
There was scarlet.
Yeah, but every character had a color.
Yeah, every character had a uniform.
This was a creative choice by our director.
And Kevin Peoples did a great job directing the movie.
And one of his ideas was that what if every character has a color?
And then as the story goes on, those colors begin to change based on the people that are influencing them.
So I was blue, my wife was yellow, our son was green.
But his birth mother has the color red.
And so as he has more interaction with her, his colors begin to shift from green toward red and they become a little more on the brown side of things.
Now, one of the big questions that we got from people in early screenings was, What's with the blue and the yellow?
So when you're saying this right now, it's echoing all of that.
We thought it was supporting Ukraine or something.
Yeah, there was a political statement.
And so actually, we went back through the film and we began to tone some of those colors down because I think girls notice even more.
Like, why is she always in yellow?
I think I was in the middle of the day.
Girls and Jerry.
I was the first one to see.
Girls and Jerry.
I didn't even notice that.
They noticed these things.
So what you saw was much less yellow and less blue than their than the original was.
Okay.
Well, and Nelson, the one, the lady that played your wife.
Yes.
She was in yellow the whole time.
She was in yellow the whole time.
She did a great job.
Not only that, like her pots and pans are yellow.
Her cabinets are yellow and her sheets are yellow.
You don't actually see anything in the middle.
Yeah, well, and also the towels.
Weren't the towels?
They were very yellow and blue.
Yeah.
The towels, yeah.
We noticed you washed a lot of dishes.
Yeah, you did, Jimmy.
Did you notice that?
We did wash one.
Actually, Jimmy, the guy that I play in the movie, washes dishes a lot.
Oh, he does like in real life?
That's his thing.
That's his thing.
He cooks and he washes.
He washes the dishes.
I actually went to their house for dinner one night, and he was there washing the dishes.
And I'm like, hey, I got to jump in, Jimmy, because I got to play you soon.
So move over.
He's like, you're not doing anything.
Henry the sponge.
Did he teach you the way of the master dish?
The way of the master dish wash?
Yes, he did.
Gosh, that's funny.
Yeah, so homeschooling.
Do you do homeschool?
Yeah, that's good.
Yeah.
So did you guys homeschool?
We did homeschool our kids for part of the time.
So our kids went to a great little private Christian school when they were young.
And then after sixth grade, we weren't happy with the options.
And we weren't going to send our kids to public school.
And so we thought, well, what do we do?
And then I talked to a guy who was part of an organization called the Vision Forum.
I don't know if you remember that, but they had all kinds of great stuff there.
And he said, homeschooling's the way.
And I thought, who homeschools their kids?
I mean, don't you care about the education of your children?
You're just going to keep them inside the house all day and try to teach them math and science yourself.
And he opened my eyes to this world of homeschooling, the vast amount of curriculum and community and all the creativity and the way that it allows you to be together with your kids and disciple them for 18 years.
And so we pulled all the kids out of school and we homeschooled them.
Some of them went back to a private school to graduate.
Others stayed in the homeschool community throughout their educational years.
And it was one of the best things we ever did for our family.
In fact, I made a whole documentary about it because homeschooling's doubled in the United States since COVID.
Parents were so freaked out and horrified by what they were seeing their kids were learning in public schools because COVID sent them home and parents got a front row seat to see what's coming up on the laptop.
And kids were being taught critical race theory and gender queer theory and everything else that undermines what they want their kids to learn.
They're being taught that the earth is billions of years old.
Yeah.
That dinosaurs and people didn't exist together.
I don't like it.
I'm not sure.
No, but.
And so they were like, we want to do something else.
And I thought that the face of homeschool has changed so much in the last 20 to 30 years that people need to see what it's really like.
Yeah.
And it's awesome.
It is awesome.
My mother-in-law started a homeschool co-op 25 years ago.
Well, and there are 800 families in it.
My wife runs it.
Like, it's an insane, it's an insane thing.
And we're just speaking out of it.
How old do they say the earth is?
So do they say billions of schools?
You know what?
You need to have a podcast episode and have a cage fight between Hugh Ross and Ken Ham.
We've had both of them on.
We've had them on separate.
Second.
Get them in the same room.
Wouldn't that be?
What we want to do is surprise them.
Like have Hugh Ross on and Ken Ham's in the next room and then we bring them out.
Come on, bring them out.
So you homeschool your kids.
Have they ever rolled their eyes at you?
What do you mean?
Like over anything or just over like have your teenagers ever shown you any attitude?
About school or about just about anything.
Oh man, it's much harder raising teenagers than little kids.
Sam Storbo told us her kids and never rolled their eyes at her once.
Never once.
Never once.
Yeah.
She does the homeschooling.
What's her secret?
She said homeschooling.
She said she homeschooled them and they never did.
I met her kids and they're nine feet tall, both of them.
Did they roll their eyes at you?
And they were very respectful.
Okay.
Well, yeah.
So now that you're defining this a little bit more, I would say that my children are finding their way with God.
My children are testing to see whether or not the Bible is true and what their parents have told them.
Does that line up with reality?
And I think that's a healthy thing.
I think that's a good thing.
At some point, the Christian Rum Springer.
It's a good reference.
Isn't that what it is?
The Amish people go out and like, oh, yeah.
Oh, see if they want to come for the radio conference.
It's a spiritual rumspringer.
That's it.
There you go.
That's right.
You know what to do?
We want our children to find out that the moon is not made of cheese.
Sure.
And we want them to find out everything else is false that is not true.
And so I think it's good that our kids have a chance to touch the fences and understand what's true and what's not because they'll see that false systems do fail them, that God's ways do lead to blessing and protection and human flourishing, both individually and in the home and in the nation and in the world.
So rolling your eyes, I would say that the level of disrespect in our family, no, that's not there.
And if they do, they would come back quickly and say, I'm sorry.
You know, mom, dad, you guys are, we're so thankful for you.
And, you know, and that's a good, that's a, that's a good feeling.
So it's always hard to watch your kids make mistakes.
You want to rescue them from poor decisions.
But someone once told me that if we always rescue our kids, we will turn them into poor human beings because they never learn that there are consequences to our actions.
And every time they fall on their face, it reinforces everything you've ever told them and that the word of God has shown them that you choose to sin, you choose to suffer.
And the path of obedience to God's ways is the path to blessing.
He's a good father, and it's kind of like that one.
He's a good, good father.
He's a good.
It's who he is.
It's who he is.
And as the worship team comes up.
As the worship team.
Chris, Chris Tomlin, can you hear me?
Come on in.
Come on in.
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So on your Instagram, we found some troubling pictures of you next to symbols, to problematic symbols of hate.
And we want to change.
Oh, my goodness.
Yeah, really?
Do I get to see these?
Yeah, they're over here.
Symbols of white supremacy.
There's, it looks like an American flag.
The American flag.
I look like I've been hanging out with Joe Rogan and I'm high, right?
There's smoke in that picture.
There's a lot of smoke.
And my eyes are squinting.
There's a squint thing going on.
That's right.
That, or you're explaining a theological concept.
I like the flag, though.
That's an amazing flag, the appeal to heaven flag.
The appeal to heaven.
Yeah, that's an early American flag.
I don't know that flag.
So that's an early American Revolution flag.
That's right.
I believe it's a Navy flag.
And it was, yes, during the time of the American Revolution.
And those who flew it were signifying that these were people of faith and courage.
And they understood that even if the justice system in your country goes rogue, there is still one final appeal you can make.
And that is to the judge of the universe who will stand by your cause if it is just.
So the supreme, supreme court.
I think we're there today.
We're there now.
That's why we're flying that flag.
I'm going to go get one of those flags as soon as we're out of here.
I'm going to go order one of them.
Yeah, fly it behind my big truck, which is also a good symbol to be seen next to.
Big Trump.
It's a big old truck with a lifted truck.
A lifted truck with a don't tread on me flag in the back as well, too.
I'm going to buy one of those too.
I like the don't tread on me flag.
I like that.
Yeah.
Oh, that's good.
I'm glad you only had one image.
I was ready to defend myself.
The American flag and then the battle flag.
Yeah.
Do you ever feel like Christian movies just preach to the choir?
Is there a danger of that?
Is that the purpose of them?
Do you feel like they reach a wider audience?
You know, it's something we struggle with as a Babyloni because we write our little Christian jokes and that hits this audience, but then we had the broader stuff that hits this audience.
And is that betraying what you're doing here?
I don't know.
There's a question there somewhere.
That's a good thing for us to think about as Christians and as cultural influencers.
And it seems to be the default that it's like, well, you know, you're just preaching to the choir, so that's not very effective.
But remember, it's God's army of compassion that changes the world.
It's the soldiers of the cross that go out and bring redemption to a lost world.
It's those who are in the choir that when they take off their choir robes, have the full armor of God underneath those robes that go out into the world and bring light to the darkness.
So we must preach to the choir.
We are the agents of transformation.
Nobody else.
We bring the message.
So it's important that we speak to the choir.
And I like doing that.
And I look to see Jesus doing that all the time with his parables.
He's speaking to his disciples.
And there are some who get it and there's some who don't.
Then there's times where Jesus is speaking to the Pharisees, to the religious community, and then just to the masses.
So there's a place for this.
I think there's a place for it.
There's a place for all of it.
And I think it's an honor to preach to the choir because the choir, that's the special forces team that actually brings heaven to earth.
And we shouldn't neglect them or see that as some sort of a less than category.
Do you see examples where Christian art and entertainment hits the wider audience?
Like, isn't just preaching to the choir?
I think the Passion of the Christ did a great job of that.
Sure.
There's good examples of that.
But I like what you're saying because I think it's a good apologetic for Christian cinema.
But there's a weird definition in the criticism.
Yeah, because look, if my theology, I mean, is our theology that if only we can get a movie out there that turns Elon Musk into a Christian, he'll save the world.
We already saved him.
You already saved him.
I'm just kidding.
I heard about that.
Yeah, I heard about that.
That was one of my questions for you when we have time.
Greg Comfort said it wasn't up to snow.
That's not a conviction.
That's not a conviction.
Yeah.
If our Bible actually says that God transforms the hearts of nobodies from nowhere with nothing to offer but a willingness to serve him in humility and faith, and that by our example, we are the foolish ones who preach a message that is foolishness to those who think they're wise.
Well, that's an entirely different plan.
And so preaching to the choir is essential.
And I love the way that God does that.
I've often thought back to times where I thought, you know, with all of my questions about the universe and God and Christianity, let's just go ask the smartest people on earth because they're the ones who should have the best answers.
But often those can turn out to be the loneliest, emptiest people in the world.
Some of the smartest philosophers end up committing suicide because they've thought themselves into a black hole of meaninglessness and die.
And there are some who are so smart that they're so intoxicated by their own intellect that their pride surely should keep them out of heaven if God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble.
And sure enough, it turns out that God's way is believing the message that appears to be foolish to the wise to strain out the pride, the proud, and usher in the humble regardless of your intellectual capacity.
And I think that's brilliant.
That's brilliant.
He's chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise because the foolishness of God is wiser than the wisdom of men.
Yeah, that's interesting.
It feels like it's almost an idol in the Christian movie industry.
Like we're going, I don't know if it's the Christian movie industry is the right word, but in the Christian world, like we need to make the movie that's going to make us respected.
Yes.
We want a seat at the table.
We want to be able to be at that table.
True artists.
And I keep going, no, no, no.
Guys, let's not beg and grovel for a seat at the table.
We need to build the table.
Yeah.
Let's build the table.
We used to be there.
We used to be the cultural leaders in society, in the arts, in government, in matters of religion and science.
The fathers of science, the leaders in the artistic world were people who were inspired and moved by the Spirit of God because they understood his sovereignty and they were filled with gratitude because of the gospel.
But as we've gotten so drunk on our own abilities and intellect, we believe that we can sit and critique the word of God and critique the mind of God and the reasonableness of the scriptures and miracles.
And all of a sudden, we've just been handed over to ourselves, as Romans 1 says here.
You want to exchange the truth for a lie and worship yourselves or the environment or creation rather than the creator?
You can have it till you choke on it.
And we are.
We're choking.
And it's disgusting what I see.
But that's a perfect setup for revival.
We see it in the Bible.
We see it in history.
And that's why I'm excited about where we are living right now: that false systems end up failing and people are beginning to wake up and say, holy cow, look what we've done to ourselves.
I love that you say, I think the Lord does use the cheesy things of the world to shame the cool sometimes and the foolish things of the world to shame the wise.
And he uses things that we never.
I'm calling Christian movies cheesy, good servants.
I was talking about I would even call Christian movies cheesy, except for when we get it right.
No, exactly.
And we're getting more and more of it right.
It happened in music.
It's happening in movies.
And Christian satire.
And Christian satire.
That's right.
So right.
And even in the foolishness of the gospel, if I can put it that way, the alleged foolishness of the message of the cross, as the Bible says, there is brilliance and wisdom in it.
Yeah.
Because it effectively strains out the proud.
Yeah.
Well, that was great.
It was awesome having a lot of people.
I was so surprised when he said that thing that I was not expecting him to say.
And he's a handsome devil.
Absolutely.
In person.
To boot.
He was shorter than I expected.
He was taller than I did.
Yeah.
He was right about the same size that I was expecting.
If you guys want to hear the rest of the interview, it is in the subscriber portion coming up.
first we have hate mail this is from ellie kindland who commented on our she-hulk joke where we said that marvel was using cgi to make it seem like a woman can be a lawyer This is a Christian joke.
Why?
Why?
I mean, I'm no feminist, but this is just stupid 12-year-old boy stuff.
It's not even satirical enough to be making fun of anything else.
Disappointed, B. Eric, you're just a bunch of frat boys out there.
Let me say, though, that if I can explain the joke, it's that they use CGI to make it seem like a woman could be a lawyer.
That's the maybe she'll get it now.
She'll understand.
All right, coming up in the subscriber lounge, we ask Kirk Cameron the famous 10 questions.
We read subscriber headlines and we ask Kirk Cameron questions from you, the listener, and from subscribers at Babylon Be and Not the Bee.
Here we go.
Coming up next for Babylon Bee subscribers.
We are going to read some headlines from the Babylon Bee featuring Kirk Cameron and he is going to read them and brutalize us for them.
New movie filtering service replaces every actor with Kirk Cameron.
That's right.
Who needs Vidangel when you just replace every actor with me?
Who won't cuss or kiss other women beside his wife?
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