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April 19, 1998 - Alex Jones Show

01:45:36

Alex Jones Steve Lane Waco 5th Rememberance

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alex jones

46:49

steve lane

07:29

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Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		Alex Jones here.
		I've had two wonderful hours of sleep last night.
		And we're going to Waco.
		And then, of course, tonight I'm going to edit for about eight hours and then get up at seven o'clock tomorrow.
		So this is the enjoyment of life.
		Endless warfare and cold beer drinking.
		That's our secret.
		No, I'm just joking.
		All right.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		You ready?
unidentified		Go ahead.
		This is the Freedom Report.
		We're cruising on an M-class star freighter in the Alpha Centauri Quadrant.
		That's the gaseous clouds of Cirrus Delta Quadrant 14-Niner.
		I'm Alex Jones.
		This is the Freedom Report.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		We're traveling, myself and Steve Lane and many others, to Waco to the scene of the April 19, 1993 Butcher Massacre of Clinton.
		The impotent, pus-filled agent, trying to feel empowered, ordered his henchmen to go out and murder a church community and then drum up all sorts of propaganda as a test to see if they can kill people in the future.
		And as we saw in Oklahoma City in 1995, when government black ops, secret murder squads, went in and destroyed that building, they can get away with almost anything now here in this nation.
unidentified		It's going to take people getting involved.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		And being conscious of this information and being willing to put it on the line, to put on the armor, and to ride out against the enemy, because there's nothing like smashing, pus-filled bureaucrats' heads in.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		We were just here at the 5th Annual Waco Remembrance.
		A lot of people were here.
		There were a few government agents there.
		Soft-soaking and selling their government line.
		The same old lies, the same old information.
		But more and more of the facts are coming out.
		We just got done eating here on the Brazos River in Waco, and just a lot of good people, a lot of people that just want the truth to come out about what happened here in Waco, Texas in 1993 on April 19th.
		It's also a shame that this day on April 19th was in 95, the Murrow Federal Building, where government black ops secret squads, according to General Parton and many others, went in and destroyed that building.
		See, it would have been too damaging to our government to have had Waco in the psyche, so they had to offset it by another terrorist act.
		I know this is stunning information, but I've documented it at least a thousand times, and many others have too, like Frederick Whitehurst, ex-head of the FBI Crime Lab, Ted Gunnarsson, ex-FBI chief of California.
		And I don't want to repeat the same things over and over, but the answers will always be the same.
		tyranny has an appetite for power and corruption.
		Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
		And those that have the appetite for power and the will that consumes them are capable of incredible despotic feats of despotism.
		Let's not let this happen again, but I assure you it will happen in the future.
		Americans are laying down far too much.
		It's going to take a renaissance of information to bring forward the truth here in our age.
		This is April 19th, 1998, five years after the murder of children.
		We were just reading the Austin American Statesman.
		It never talks about the children.
		It talks about David Koresh being some sort of cult leader.
		Of course, the media doesn't want to discuss Waco rules of engagement, and I was surprised that it was nominated for an Academy Award, but of course it didn't win.
		We're coming out here to help keep the memory alive of the butchery, the murder.
		Because Bill Clinton was insecure and wanted to flex his muscles, and the BATF wanted more funding, they wanted to raise the American people's consciousness about cults and out-of-control organizations of this nature.
		So they surrounded the place, opened fire with helicopters, and then 51 days later, set it on fire, sent hit teams inside, and murdered the people.
		Those that tried to escape were machine guns from outside.
		Only a couple people got out alive, and that's because they came out the front.
		Where they had cameras.
		We're fixing to show you everything out there and get a lot of important interviews.
		This is the Freedom Report.
steve lane ▲ ● ▼		Mike Hanson and others put together a bus trip for us to come here.
		Actually, this is my first time here.
		So were y'all out of Austin then?
		Yes, yes.
unidentified		Why are y'all here today?
steve lane ▲ ● ▼		I'm here personally because I want to educate myself more about this, more about what happened here.
		I'm not really as informed as a lot of people are about the attack that occurred here.
		And I thought it was important to come here and see the site for myself and meet the people that were involved and get a more rounded education about the subject than what I think what we typically get through the mainstream media sources.
unidentified		Why is your group here?
unidentified		I see people holding signs.
steve lane ▲ ● ▼		It's the same thing.
		One of the things that we do at the conference is we try and expose corrupt government and educate people about what's really going on in the world.
		I think because of the Soundbite nature of mainstream media, individuals don't get the type of education that they should to make informed choices, and we try and get them more pertinent information so they can make better informed choices.
unidentified		Okay, do you think that what happened here wasn't?
steve lane ▲ ● ▼		I couldn't make, I didn't really formulate an opinion here, and what happened was a libertarian friend of mine made the point that regardless If there were laws being broken here, if there were illegal weapons being stored here, that sort of thing, how can you justify killing all those women and children?
		And you can't.
		And regardless of what might have occurred here before the ATF and the FBI arrived, you can't justify killing women and children like that.
		Those babies weren't shooting anybody.
		And there were babies that died here.
		And there were unborn babies that died here.
		And that, to me, was a very valid point.
		And that's why I think it's important that this type of information get out, that people start asking those same questions.
		Hey, it doesn't matter if they were in there, you know, running a slave operation.
		How can you justify killing babies and unborn babies?
		And you can't.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Steve Lane just got done talking to the media.
		I certainly hope they play the comments in full, but that's the main problem with the instant media.
		They have to have little sound bites because everything is just regurgitated back to the public.
		So I think Steve Lane's doing a good job talking to people out here.
		I want to go try to get some interviews with a producer of Waco Rules of Engagement if we can do that and talk to some of the lawyers.
steve lane ▲ ● ▼		This is Steve Lane with the Freedom Report.
		We're here at what used to be the Mount Carmel, or I guess it still is Mount Carmel, but where the facilities used to be.
		Here in Waco and we're standing here with Catherine Madison who's going to give us a tour of the site.
		This is all new to me.
		I've never been here before, never studied the site in any detail and I'm looking forward to Miss Catherine showing us around.
		Hey, Miss Madison, I really appreciate you taking the time out to show us around because this is my first time here and I really don't know very much about what happened out here and this is more of an educational trip for me.
		Than anything.
		And to see it for myself and to hear what happened from people who were actually involved.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Let's get a generation how far off the road they were.
steve lane ▲ ● ▼		Ask her how far, and I'll go back.
steve lane ▲ ● ▼		Say what now?
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		How far the house was off the road.
steve lane ▲ ● ▼		Oh, Ms. Madison, could you speak about how far the house is from the main road?
steve lane ▲ ● ▼		Any guesstimates there?
unidentified		Well, this road goes on a curve, and ahead of us is the curve.
		And the houses started right where that second telephone pole is.
		And extended down the road, and there were about 15 houses here at one time.
		To your left down here, you're going to see all the trees that were planted for the people who died in the fire.
		And each one has a marker on it telling the name of one of the people.
steve lane ▲ ● ▼		Is this an actual grave site or just a memorial?
unidentified		No, it's just a memorial.
		They are buried in other places.
		I see.
		To your right down in front of us, way down there, that is the bus that we had originally.
		We used to all be able to get in there and go where we wanted to go as a group.
steve lane ▲ ● ▼		It looks like it's been burned.
unidentified		I don't know when it was burned.
		It was perfectly all right when we left.
		Of course, the different tanks went to the front of it.
		When you look at it, you'll see that it's been caved in.
		But the rest of it was in good shape.
steve lane ▲ ● ▼		And you actually were in the house during the initial attack, is that correct?
unidentified		Oh, yes, yes.
unidentified		I was there.
steve lane ▲ ● ▼		And how long were you there?
unidentified		I was there until the attack was over.
		See, they called a truce so that they could pick up their men that had been hurt.
		And take the others...
		You're speaking of the ATF? ATF. And when it came time for us to pick up our people, they wouldn't allow us to do it.
steve lane ▲ ● ▼		So were there injured Branch Davidians outside then, you were saying, that you weren't able to go?
unidentified		Oh, yes.
unidentified		Yes, I was.
steve lane ▲ ● ▼		Were they not able to receive medical attention of any type?
unidentified		Oh, no.
unidentified		Mike...
steve lane ▲ ● ▼		Or were these Branch Davidians that had already been killed?
unidentified		No.
		Mike had come down from...
		What they call the make bag that's so far on the other road down there.
steve lane ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we saw that.
steve lane ▲ ● ▼		That was demolished.
unidentified		Well, it wasn't demolished.
		The man had the key to the piece of property.
		But what happened, they decided to ram it.
		They rammed the door in, and we had cars there that were being fixed.
steve lane ▲ ● ▼		And to be clear about this, she's speaking of a building, and we're going to tape this a little bit later.
		We're talking about a building that's approximately eight miles.
		Is that about right?
		Would you say it's about eight miles?
		It's about eight miles from the site here.
		And it's my understanding, was it the ATF or the FBI? ATF. It was the ATF actually pushed this building over.
		And all you say was that you had some cars that were being worked on there?
unidentified		It pushed the door in.
		And the man that had the key said, I will open the door.
		And they said, no.
		They rammed it.
steve lane ▲ ● ▼		Were they trying to get inside for some reason?
unidentified		I have no idea what their reasoning is.
		But we used to fix cars down there.
		And there was three men that were down there.
		One of them was Mike.
		And he came in and he tried to get in this way because his family was here.
		And they shot him.
		See, there were sharpshooters that had dug holes and made it so that they could shoot.
		Sure.
		In any direction.
		Okay, stop it right there.
steve lane ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Here again, these were trees that were planted in memoriam of all the individuals that died inside the fire, is that correct?
		And these are all, they're all marked.
unidentified		Yes, they all have a plaque.
steve lane ▲ ● ▼		And you'll notice here, now see, this is something that bothers me, Catherine.
		I don't know what occurred inside this house before the ATF got here.
		Truthfully, I don't even know what occurred afterwards.
		But one of the hardest things I have...
		The biggest problems I have with what occurred here is that there were so many women and children that perished here.
		And regardless, it seems to me that...
unidentified		Well, the men perished too.
steve lane ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it matters not to me what laws could have possibly been broken here.
		Women and children and men died.
		I mean, how can you justify killing babies and unborn babies?
		It matters not to me.
		And I noticed that the first gravestone we walk up to here...
unidentified		Yes, that was one of the twins.
steve lane ▲ ● ▼		...age one and a half.
unidentified		That was one of the twins.
steve lane ▲ ● ▼		To people who might be watching this tape, I mean, I've heard a lot of criticisms of the Branch Davidians.
		To you people that are being critical of the Branch Davidians, you justify to me, how can you justify killing a child that's a year and a half old?
		I have an eight-month-old at home, and a child that's a year and a half old can't shoot people.
		They can't commit crimes.
		How can you justify killing them?
unidentified		They killed them because they wouldn't come out.
		They killed them.
		See, when they first came here, they were going to kill everybody.
		And the first thing they did was fill David's room full of holes.
		But David didn't happen to be in there.
		And I'm sure they figured if they killed David, then they could get the rest of us.
		It was not to their liking that we came out.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		His film, documentary, Waco Rules of Engagement, was up for an Academy Award, and I think it should have won.
		It is one of the best documentaries I've ever seen.
		It methodically documents the hysteria in our government.
		Mr. McNulty, I want to thank you for doing this interview.
unidentified		You're welcome.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		I'm not really going to ask you any questions.
		I just want to ask you basically...
		Do you think this is going to come out?
		Why are you making a second documentary?
unidentified		Well, the first film certainly raised all the right questions.
		It didn't always have all of the answers, so I've spent some additional time and effort in trying to get better answers to the questions.
		Who shot first on February 28th?
		Was there really gunfire from the helicopters?
		Did the FBI shoot at the Branch Davidians on April 19th in spite of their protestations?
		Who were the people at the back of the building shooting at the Branch Davidians on April 19th?
		What was involved with the explosion on the top of the bunker during the course of the fire?
		How was the evidence handled or mishandled in the following investigation?
		Questions like that.
		So we get to...
		Deal with those issues, and hopefully when we've dealt with them, we're in the process of making that film, and I'm finding very little cooperation from people who were involved.
		People like Bob Ricks, or Jeff Jamar, or Dick Wright.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		He was head of the FBI at that operation, correct?
unidentified		No, Jeff Jamar was.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		And Bob Ricks, he was?
unidentified		He was the public spokesperson that you saw at all the news conferences.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so he was the public spokesperson for the FBI. Right.
unidentified		And basically...
		Trying to get those people to cooperate now has been like pulling teeth.
		They're not interested.
		Well, I can appreciate why they might not be, but the fact of the matter is these are the same fellows that are out bad-mouthing my film, and I think it's only appropriate first that they see the film before they bad-mouth it.
		And then once they've had that opportunity that they also spend some time answering the questions raised in the film as opposed to just being critical in sort of a general haphazard way.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Mr. McNulty, I have seen your documentary when it premiered in Austin, Texas to a packed house at the Dobie at UT. And I was ashamed that our newspaper didn't do a front cover story.
		They did it in the movie section and they said it showed troubling information, showed...
		Federal agents firing from their sniper points and actually up right next to the church or what the media would call the compound.
		I know some new documentation is coming out that's even worse than just the feds firing at women and children as they tried to exit the burning building through the cafeteria area.
		Now, is it true that some documentation is coming out, if you want to go ahead and release this, I've heard it from others, that they actually sent in hit squads?
unidentified		I don't think so.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		You don't think they sent in hit squads?
unidentified		No, I don't think I'm going to release any information right now under these circumstances.
		Basically, we will have new information in the film.
		People will be able to judge for themselves as to what went on and why it went on and who was responsible.
		But no, I don't think I want to talk about that too much right now.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
		Just a couple more questions if you have the time.
		You say that you've run into a brick wall now that your documentary, Waco Rules of Engagement, has gotten so much attention.
		Because of the methodical nature and how well organized the information is, do you think that your next film will be given more attention than this one, or do you think that the propaganda machine and the mainstream media will continue to attack it despite the fact that most of these people haven't even seen the documentary?
unidentified		Well, it remains to be seen.
		I think the interesting point about people attacking the film now is it's been out for a year, it's completed a theatrical run, it's been released in home video, and they're just getting around to paying attention to it.
		When I say they, I mean people like Bob Riggs.
		Buck Revell and these others that were former FBI agents involved in Waco in 1993. I think they're sort of a dollar short and a day late.
		The horse is out of the barn and it comes across as nothing more than sour grapes.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		So you're saying that due to their arrogance they ignored this powerful information and now it's gotten pretty big and they're starting to panic?
unidentified		I don't know if panic's the right word, but certainly they've begun to pay attention where they hadn't for the past year and a half.
		And ultimately, all that tells me is these fellas have got something on their mind.
		And I have contacted them recently, like Bob Ricks, and given them the opportunity to speak their piece, to state their side of the story.
		And they refuse to do so.
		So in my mind, all that tells me is they've got something to hide.
		So if that's the case, then shame on them.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's exactly what they did when they held the media back and then in the press conference said, well, you're lucky that you're that far.
		But we don't want you seeing what we're doing.
		But we're not going to go in there and do any kind of assault.
unidentified		That was Jeff Jamar.
		I think what went on here and the fact that it wasn't documented by the media the way it should have been probably has something to do with why you have a TV show and a radio show.
		You're not exactly mainline.
		But on the other hand, the birth of that type of communications.
		It's a good thing, because it gives the mainline media something to think about next time they want to kowtow to the people of the Justice Department for fear of losing news sources.
		So perhaps it's a good thing, and perhaps there is good that's come out of the situation at Wake Up.
		I'm going to have to go, man.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Sure, last question.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Sir, how long until your next film comes out?
unidentified		It's scheduled for July, and if we keep on our schedule, which I'm about to leave for right now, we may just get it done by then.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
		Thanks a lot.
		Appreciate it.
unidentified		God bless you.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Sir, I know you have to go.
		Just one more question.
		How can the media continually lie about this and not come full force out with indictments against certain people when this documentary does show federal agents?
		In your opinion, who was it firing the automatic weapons?
unidentified		Who is firing the automatic weapons at the back of the building on April 19th will be revealed in the new film.
		In terms of, do I have any idea why the media isn't doing their job?
		I don't know.
		You have to go ask them.
		That's what you ought to be doing right now, is asking these guys why they haven't done their job relative to that.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Well, they're just errand boys.
		They're just out getting the footage.
		It gets cut up back home.
unidentified		Yeah, and what you have to do is go and find the editors.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		I've done it.
unidentified		And put them on camera and ask them, why is it you haven't run these stories?
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
		Thanks a lot.
		I'm serious.
		Have you seen Waco Rules of Engage?
unidentified		Yes, I have.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		You have?
		So you have seen the inventor, the man that holds three of the patents, three of the four patents on flare technology, telling you that those are sniper points firing automatic weapons.
		What do you think about that?
unidentified		I thought it was fascinating.
		I thought it was a different perspective than I had heard before.
		I don't know that I will base any definite opinion on it, but I thought it was interesting.
		I thought it was a different perspective and it taught me something I didn't know before.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Are you aware that our Secretary of Defense, William Cohen, just created ten regional teams to work with local law enforcement?
		That is absolutely unconstitutional, and they're doing anti-terrorism training all around the country.
		Are you aware that General Benton Parton, ex-head of Air Force Weapons Development, says that Oklahoma City was done with pinpoint strikes inside the building?
unidentified		No, I wasn't aware about that.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		What news service are you with?
unidentified		Channel 10 here in town.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Here in Waco?
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		If you want, I will send y'all footage from CNN the day of the bombing where they were removing unexploded bombs from the girders inside Oklahoma.
unidentified		I've worked on the McVeigh trial out in Denver.
unidentified		I pretty much know...
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Well, thanks a lot.
		I appreciate it.
		I have to speak now.
unidentified		Let's go.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Mike, come on!
steve lane ▲ ● ▼		Steve Lane again with the Freedom Report.
		They're getting ready to take a moment out here to ring the replica of the Liberty Bell and call off the names of the individuals who were murdered here at the church.
		We have behind us Clive Doyle, and there's the replica of the Liberty Bell, which, by the way, I've been meaning to ask some questions.
		If it's a full-scale replica or...
		If it's a partial scale, I'd like to get a chance to speak to the individual who brought it and who's in charge of taking care of it.
		But they're getting ready to make those announcements right now.
unidentified		February 28, 1993. We all know what happened that morning.
		There were lives taken.
		We're going to read all the names of everyone who lost their life here at Mount Carmel on February the 28th, as well as April the 19th.
		I'd like to begin with the names of those Branch Davidians that were killed here on February the 28th.
		Winston Blake, England.
		Peter Gent, Australia.
		Peter Hipsman, United States.
		Perry Dale Jones, United States.
		Michael Schroeder, United States.
		Jadine Wendell, United States.
		Also on that date, four BATF agents lost their lives.
		Conway Leblew, Todd McKeon, Robert Williams, and Stephen Willis.
		On April the 19th, fire took the lives of the following: Chanel Andrade, United States.
		Jennifer Andrade, United States.
		Catherine Andrade, United States.
		Ulrich Rick George Bennett, England.
		Susan Benta, England.
		Mary Jean Borst, United States.
		Pablo Cohen, Israel.
		Abadawalo Dabo Davies, Nigeria and England.
		Sherry Elena Doyle, United States.
		Beverly Elliott, England.
		Doris Fagan, Jamaica, England.
		Yvette Fagan, Jamaica, England.
		Lisa Marie Ferris, United States.
		Raymond Friesen.
		Sandra Herial, England.
		Diana Henry, England.
		Paulina Henry, England.
		Philip Henry, England.
		Stephen Henry, England.
		Zilla Henry, Jamaica, England.
		Novelette Sinclair Hipsman, Canada.
		Floyd Houtman, United States.
		Sherry Jewell, United States.
		Cyrus Howell Koresh, United States.
		David Koresh, United States.
		Rachel Olivia Susanna Jones Howell Koresh, United States.
		Star Hollow Koresh United States Chica Jones Koresh, United States Little One Jones Koresh, United States Jell Jones Thibodeau, United States.
		Serenity C. Jones Koresh, United States.
		David Michael Jones, United States.
		Jeffrey Little, United States.
		Nicole Elizabeth Gent Little, Australia.
		Dayland Lord Gent, Australia.
		Paige Gent, United States.
		Unnamed aborted fetus, Gent, that died during the siege, United States.
		Livingston Malcolm, Jamaica, England.
		Annette Marie Martin, United States.
		Douglas Wayne Martin, United States Lisa Marie Martin, United States Sheila Renee Martin, United States Wayne Martin, United States.
		Diana Martin, England.
		Abigail Martinez, United States.
		Audrey Martinez, United States.
		Crystal Berrios, United States.
		Isaiah Taco Berrios, United States.
		Joseph Samuel Martinez, United States.
		Juliet Santoyo, United States.
		John Mark McBean, Jamaica, England.
		Allison Bernadette Monvalley, England.
		Melissa Morrison, England.
		Melissa Morrison, England.
		Rosemary Morrison, England.
		Sonia Murray, England.
		Teresa Nobrega, England.
		James Jimmy Lloyd Riddle, United States.
	Rebecca Sapia, New Zealand.
	Judith Schneider, United States.
	Mina Schneider, United States.
	Stephen Schneider, United States.
	Clifford Sellers, England.
	Flora Sita Sanobi, Philippines.
	Scott Kojiro Sanobi, United States.
	Aisha Garfus Summers, Australia.
	Startle Summers, United States.
	Unnamed Abortus Spetus Summers, United States.
	Gregory Ellen Summers, United States.
	Hollywood Sylvia, United States.
	Lorraine Sylvia, England, United States.
	Rachel Sylvia, United States.
	Margarita Vallega, China, United States.
	Neil Vallega, New Zealand, United States.
	Mark Wendell, United States.
	There are a couple of survivors who died since 1993.
	We have stones here for them and the flowers.
	And they will be placed over here later.
	James Lauder, United States.
	He passed away November the 25th, 1996. Jamie Martin, United States.
	Jamie passed away February the 11th of this year.
	We have also a number of survivors that are still in prison, and I'd like to tell you a little bit about each one of them.
	Renus Abram, born February 26, 1964. He's a British businessman and musician of Greek heritage.
	He joined the Davidians in 1991. He escaped the fire.
	He's serving 40 years since.
	If you'd like to write to him, his name and number and where he's located is available here, and you can get a copy of this.
	He's currently in Jessup, Georgia.
	Brad Branch, born January 31st, 1959.
	He's a Navy veteran and technician from Texas, a frequent visitor to Mount Carmel who came out during the siege.
	He's serving a 40-year sentence.
	He's currently in Beaumont, Texas.
	Jamie Castillo, born June the 4th, 1968. He's a California drummer, a guitarist who joined the Davidians in 1988 and escaped the fire.
	He's serving a 40-year sentence.
	He's currently in Beaumont, Texas.
	Graham Craddock, born November the 29th, 1961.
	He's an engineer from Australia who had been at Mount Carmel for a year and escaped the He's serving a 20-year sentence.
	He's in Oakdale, Louisiana.
	Paul Fata, born February 28, 1958. He's a businessman from Hawaii who joined the Davidians in the late 80s.
	He was outside of Mount Carmel on February 28, 1993. He's serving a 15-year sentence.
	He's in Safford, Arizona.
	Kevin Whitecliffe, born June the 4th, 1968. He's from Hawaii.
	He's the father of two who had been at Mount Carmel for a year, came out during the siege.
	He's serving a 40-year sentence.
	He's currently in Beaumont, Texas.
	And finally, Livingston Fagan, born May 15th, 1959 in Jamaica.
	He's a social worker and has a master in theology.
	He spent most of his life in Britain.
	He's the father of two who lost his wife and mother in the fire.
	He exited during the siege.
	He's serving a 40-year sentence in Oklahoma City.
	He had been at Leavenworth, Kansas, where he was treated so inhumanely that there's a grand jury impaneled now to look at what some of the guards had been doing there.
	And that's why he is now in Oklahoma City during that investigation for fear that his life could be in danger if he was left there at Leavenworth.
	And so hopefully some of that may be straightened out.
	Livingston Fagan has had a very, very tough, tough five years, as they all have.
	But Livingston won't play their games.
	Has been put outside nude and hosed down in the winter and then put in a cold cell with nothing on because he just refuses to play any of their games.
	Those are the men that are in prison, and if you'd like to write them, we have the addresses available to where they all are, and I'm sure that they'd love to hear from you.
	Can we bow our heads just for a minute or so for those that lost their lives here five years ago?
	Thank you.
	I'd like to personally, on behalf of all the Branch Davidians that are here, survivors, I'd like to thank you for coming today and spending your time and letting all of the survivors know exactly how you feel.
	They appreciate your being here.
	And feel free to come in and look through the museum.
	It'll get larger.
	There'll be more here as time goes by.
	And thank you all very, very much for coming.
	I appreciate it.
	Thank you.
steve lane ▲ ● ▼		Well, notice, looks like, yeah, we're fixing to finish our walk here with Catherine Madison, and I noticed in the, it looks to me like some sort of...
		And I'm not even joking around, a surveillance helicopter, because you'll notice on the nose of the helicopter, there's kind of a reflection of light.
		I don't know if you can see that on the video.
		And I can tell you from my stint in the military, that's indicative of surveillance equipment, cameras.
		The light reflects off the multiple lenses that they have, and clearly that's some sort of military helicopter.
unidentified		I'm getting it, Alex!
steve lane ▲ ● ▼		Again, there's no mistaking it.
		I refueled aircraft while I was in the Air Force.
		I saw helicopters and various aircraft on a daily basis.
		And again, that's indicative of the multiple lenses that are on surveillance equipment that they mount to the nose of various aircraft from F-4s, different helicopters.
		There's standard surveillance cameras, also infrared.
		FLIR, they call it forward-looking infrared radar, and there's just no doubt in my mind the glint off of the reflection, which I hope you caught on the video, is just, well, there's no mistaking it.
		That's exactly where they put that surveillance equipment.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		I'm visiting with Ron Engelman.
		He was a radio host in Dallas, Texas, who stood up.
		He's been in the documentary Day 51. He was one of the first people to speak out.
		Sir, how did you recognize immediately that army tanks and people in black ski masks surrounding a church was dangerous?
unidentified		Sunday morning, when it first got on television, I saw what was taking place, and I became irate about it.
unidentified		I mean, when you see people in black surrounding a home and just firing into the walls and into the windows, and there are government rules and regulations that state you have to have a target before you fire, they ran out of ammunition firing through walls.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Let me ask you a question.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		How come you can tell the difference between that, I can tell the difference between that, but the media said they fired first, but you can see the door, the front door was riddled with bullet holes?
unidentified		No, you can't see the front door because mysteriously the front door disappeared.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		I'm talking about the photographs.
unidentified		One of the guys that was killed was killed right there at the front door.
unidentified		That's where David Koresh was...
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		He said, let's talk.
unidentified		He opened up the door and said, hold it, hold it, there's women and children in here.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		He had invited the BATF to come by and then he would let them inspect his weapons.
unidentified		Two months before the raid, the BATF went over to McMahon's gun shop and wanted to look at the records of David Koresh.
		While they were looking through the records, McMahon called David Koresh and said, the VATF's here.
		And he said, let me talk to him.
		McMahon went out with a cell phone and said, David Koresh wants to talk to you.
		And they said, no, no, we're not going to talk to him.
		And they wouldn't talk to him.
		So David told McMahon, he said, tell them to come on out right now.
		Come on out and I'll show them anything they want to see.
		They never showed up.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		They wanted a media circus.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		It has Waco Rules of Engagement.
unidentified		You out of here.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		See you later.
unidentified		They wanted what?
unidentified		There he goes, the big producer, Mr. McNulty.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Alright, let's finish this up.
		I'm so brand new.
		This is not the normal island.
		The scary part is we had Ramsey Clark, Attorney General.
unidentified		That's right.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		And he actually worked in three administrations.
		Up there telling us that the Trilateral Commission, the CFR, are running the country or actually front groups.
		We have him telling us that they're militarizing the police.
		They're coming under federal control.
		I mean, what is it going to take for the dozen media cameras that were out here from stations all across the country to report on these facts?
unidentified		They won't.
		They won't.
		They're government-controlled.
		Take into consideration that every network...
		That has a number of television stations throughout the country as well as radio stations.
		They are controlled by people that do belong to the CFR and do belong to the Trilateral Commission.
		And those people aren't going to allow their reporters to report the truth on what's going on.
		In 1951, a gentleman that was the...
		Publisher of the New York Times was asked to speak at a luncheon, and he said, if you think we are speaking what's telling what's true, you're absolutely wrong.
		This is a joke.
		You and I are both nothing more than prostitutes.
		We're prostituting ourselves for a business that only wants us to report what they want to hear.
		If we report what we know and we want to do, we know we'll be out on the street tomorrow.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		That was 1951. Didn't this start right at the turn of the century, whenever J.P. Morgan bought up all the major newspapers?
unidentified		Oh, absolutely.
		And it's been going on since then.
		And we all know what J.P. Morgan's money does and his banks.
		And, you know, he's part of...
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		That company, that dynasty.
unidentified		That dynasty that owns the Federal Reserve.
		J.P. Morgan Bank owns part of the Federal Reserve.
		The Federal Reserve is no more federal government than Federal Express.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Then this pen is federal.
unidentified		That's right.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		It's a lie.
		It's private.
		What would you say to the public out there in Austin?
		What would you say to them to wake up, to get involved and to shake the apathy?
unidentified		That's exactly what I'd say, is wake up, pay attention to what's going on in this country.
		If you're sitting there and all you're doing is reading a newspaper and watching television, you're brain dead.
		What you need to do, in all honesty, is start studying.
		Read the Constitution.
		Read what the Constitution says.
		Then study what the meaning of the Constitution is.
		Read the Federalist Papers.
		Then you'll know the meaning of the Constitution, why it was written and what it was meant for.
		Until then, you're lost.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		How long do you think we have left?
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		If we don't turn this around until we're in a 100% full-on police state?
unidentified		Well, you've got to take into consideration that the government is never in a hurry.
unidentified		Everything they do, they do in little, tiny, tiny chunks.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Incrementally.
unidentified		Just like they're taking away our freedoms, just little tiny pieces at a time, and they use something like the Oklahoma bombing or some other catastrophe to say, see?
		See what happens?
		We don't need guns.
		Look at all these people that were killed, these two little boys that killed those four children and their teacher.
		We don't need guns.
		We don't need guns.
		And so they're trying to take it away.
		Pretty soon it's all gone.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		It's kind of like the frog in the boiling pot.
unidentified		That's exactly right.
unidentified		That's exactly what it is.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		I really appreciate you having me out here today, and I want to...
		And just everybody standing up for what happened to the Branch Davidians.
		I think, though, this is going to be a catalyst to wake up the nation.
unidentified		I pray to God it will.
		I pray to God it will.
		We read all these names out there today, and that's real hard for me to do.
		I've done that before, and every time I do it, it just hurts badly.
		And if you think about the lives that were lost here and how they were lost, and put the blame squarely where it belongs, and it certainly doesn't belong on the Branch Davidians, because they were just living here peacefully.
		Then you'll know what's happened.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's part of the demonization.
		I mean, everything that the media said turned out to be lies.
		Speed labs, illegal guns, molesting children.
		He said he was Jesus.
		If all that was true, you don't fire into a home thousands and thousands of rounds from semi and fully automatic weapons, from helicopters out front into a place filled with children.
		And then you don't come in and set the place on fire.
unidentified		That's exactly right.
		I mean, you said it all.
		What else is there to say?
		And that's exactly what the government did.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		So we have Attorney Generals.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		We have documentaries with the FBI's own footage, their own flare tapes as they fire at men, women, and children as they try to leave a burning building.
unidentified		That's right.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		And you have the people out there just standing around, worried about...
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Who the local football coach is?
unidentified		Remember, when the fire was burning, while the fire was burning, there was a report that 20 people had come out the back of Mount Carmel.
		If you watch Waco, the rules of engagement, you'll see why those people aren't alive.
		They did come out the back of Mount Carmel.
		They were killed by federal agents in tanks outside the back.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		That's why they stopped the fire trucks while they hurriedly bulldozered the bodies back into the flames.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		In Waco Rules of Engagement, there's interviews with the Tarrant County Coroner's Office, and they sit there and tell you that one body wouldn't hardly be burnt, and the next body with bullet holes would be burnt to a char from gasoline.
unidentified		That's absolutely right, and that's why.
		I mean, they had to do this.
		If they hadn't done this, everyone in the country would have seen what the government really was.
		They demonized these people for 51 days with a 30-minute press briefing every day, and that press briefing was no more than lie after lie after lie.
		They were trying to instigate.
		David Koresh to do something, he wouldn't do it.
		They were lying about him to the American public, and the sad thing is that the American public, the majority of the American public, still believes that the government was right.
		My sister is one of them.
		I can sit and show her movies, I can sit and talk with her, and I might as well be talking to a brick wall.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		And that's the point.
		We have Frederick Whitehurst, ex-head of the FBI crime lab, comes out and says they manufactured evidence from Waco to Oklahoma City.
		Again, I don't want to repeat myself, but attorney generals have the will to do this.
		And people still lay there.
unidentified		And they're attorneys general, not attorney generals.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		I know.
		I appreciate that.
		That's what happens when you get two hours sleep.
		Thanks a lot, buddy.
unidentified		You're welcome.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, man.
		Appreciate that.
		We're here with Bonnie Haldeman, David Koresh's mother.
		And there's quite a crowd out here today to, I guess, lend support and try to keep the memories alive of people that did die just trying to live their lives.
		How do you feel five years after the tragedy?
unidentified		Well, I feel pretty much like I did the same, you know, the day it happened.
		The great loss and injustice of what was done here to American people in their home, their church, and their family, you know.
		The hurt's still there, and we're here to remember them.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Bonnie Haldeman, she's the mother of David Koresh.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Does it still feel as bad as it did five years ago?
unidentified		Sometimes it does, you know.
unidentified		It's gotten a little easier in some aspects, but being out here sometimes and remembering sort of in your mind, you see everything that happened, especially looking at the pictures inside.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		You did a good job ringing the bell for the people that died here.
		You know, I've seen you here today and talked to you some.
		You seem like a really gentle, nice woman, and that makes me think even more so that all the stories we heard in the controlled media were lies about your son.
unidentified		They were lies.
		They were lies.
		Because he was a kind, gentle person, too.
		Loved people, and his main goal in life was to help save people's souls, and he didn't like anybody to be unkind to anybody else.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		And he also told the BATF to come on over two weeks before.
unidentified		He did.
		He told them several times to come out.
		They were in the gun shop one day.
		We found out that they were there asking about him, and he said, tell them, come on over.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		And the sheriff knew him.
unidentified		Sheriff Harwell knew him.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		The sheriff of this county said that he was a good guy and wasn't bothering anybody and that this was a good community out here.
unidentified		He had come out here many times, you know, just in and talked to David, and Sheriff Harwell told me last year, he said, I'm sure, I'm sorry, Bonnie, what happened, if anything I can do for you.
unidentified		Well, there you have it.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Attorney generals, sheriffs here in Waco, the sheriff here in Waco, it just goes on and on.
		FBI crime lab chiefs?
		What more do you need?
		The documentation is there.
		What would you say to the public in Austin, Texas, if there's just a few statements that you want to make to them about how they can avert this type of tragedy happening in the future?
unidentified		How can they avert it?
unidentified		Well, we need to stand up for what we know is right and to demand that investigations be done on what happened here and see if it doesn't happen again.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Indictments?
unidentified		We've got all of our family in prison that shouldn't be there.
unidentified		The jury of their peers found them innocent and they're spending hundreds of years in prison.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		And that's very strange how that judge was able to do that.
unidentified		It is strange.
		It's strange.
		How can one man have so much power?
		That's not right.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Well, thanks a lot, Bonnie.
unidentified		Thank you.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Appreciate that.
unidentified		You're welcome.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		We're here.
		At the museum, at the remains of Mount Carmel community, church community, that the media called Compound.
		I want you to take a look at these federal agents.
		Now who looks like the criminal here in this photograph?
		Right here.
		Who looks like the criminal?
		Pretty sinister looking, isn't he?
unidentified		Mike.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Here you have the remains of the church, known in the media as the compound.
		Now notice, they said they had to destroy it because of contamination of the ground.
		As usual, in Waco and in Oklahoma City, they destroy the federal crime scene.
		There you have the ATF flag flying below the Texas and United States flag, a battle scene, a military operation.
		And here you have a federal agent grimacing.
		This young lady here, you see Clive Doyle, a man that I know is as gentle as a lamb, being led by the federal agent to his jail cell.
unidentified		After he was burnt.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Yes, after he was burnt.
		And then here you have the bus, all burnt out.
		And by the way, eight miles down the road, they owned a small car shop.
		They ran over that and tore that to pieces, even though no one was there.
		Now let's look at the militarization.
		There they are where the children were huddled.
		And now new evidence shows that they sent in a special ops team with special breathing apparatus to kill everyone inside there and they placed a mine on top of the building.
		Here you can see them looking down through the hole.
		Here's more FBI provocateur agents there destroying evidence.
		And here you have the equivalent of MJTF FBI squads.
		These are who are training with your local law enforcement in their German style 1993...
		Kevlar helmets.
		Here you have some of the other FBI teams that stole evidence from the Tarrant County Coroner's Examiner's Office, and that's in Waco Rules of Engagement, well documented.
		Here you have some more of the tough guy behavior.
		We can't show you the photographs of them exposing their genitalia to the children during the 30th day of the siege.
		They did quite a bit of that, but here's a real tough guy.
		He can fire into a building filled with men, women, and children while he wears body armor.
		My, is he tough.
		And, of course, Here is some more BATF. You know, they shot someone who was driving into the house that day as they came down the road, the first day that the conflagration of terror began.
		And here you have another tough guy with an automatic weapon, a HK, a deadly German fully automatic weapon.
		That is an ATF, a U.S. government terrorist.
		And, of course, here you have the Bradley fighting vehicle, a medium tank, and they also had Abrams, the premier front-line battle tank here for this group of citizens who had invited the BATF no less than twice to come out and inspect their firearms, and the government never found any illegal weapons.
		They got a false search warrant.
		They lied.
		They violated posse commentatus.
		It's totally unconstitutional.
		This is a police state.
		Let's go ahead and look at what was and what is no more.
		Get a shot at Waco Rules of Engagement.
		You want to talk about a documentary that has the FBI's own flare footage as a machine gun, innocent men, women, and children as they tried to leave the church, the wooden structure known as a compound of the media, and to the purveyors of corruption.
		A lot is going on, and there's a new documentary supposedly coming out called Bullets Over Waco, The Survivor's Story.
		Let's go ahead and go over here now and look at some more of the documents.
		This was the first day of the standoff.
		This is where federal police came up, secret police came up and began firing into the front of the door when David Koresh opened it.
		They killed several people when they opened fire and injured David Koresh as he held his hands up.
		They then called 911 repeatedly.
		This is all on the 911 tapes.
		And so we're being fired on.
		Helicopters surrounded the area and were firing into the structure through the roof.
		Here you have...
		The structure before it was destroyed.
		Here you have the ATF firing as fast as they can.
		Down here.
		Firing into the structure with absolute wanton abandonness.
		And then you have people who are in full body armor firing at men, women, and children who had committed no crime.
		And then you have them sitting here crying sorrowfully over a BATF agent that was shot.
		We're sorry that that happened, but when you wear a black ski mask...
		And you come into somebody's home, well, I'll say what G. Gordon Liddy said, aim for the head.
		Let's go on over here.
		We're going through the entire...
unidentified		I'm crazy.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		We're going through the entire 51 days now.
		Well, here you have what was going on at night, the lights, the sirens, Nancy Sinatra, the sound of squealing, dying rabbits.
		And then they started pumping in the CS gas, a band form.
		of tear gas because when it ignites it forms cyanide gas.
		Here you have the structure with all the thousands of tank treads around it.
		Here you have day 22, some of the people that came out were promptly sent to jail and labeled as terrorists.
		The BATF pulled up in cattle cars, fully exposed.
		If the Davidians were waiting to ambush them, like a lot of mainstream media, made-for-TV television propaganda shows, propagandize the people, right here you have the structure.
		And the BATF came up, knocked on the door, and Koresh raised his hands and said, stop, let's talk about this.
		We have women and children.
		They opened fire, this is on the FBI's own tapes, into the front of the structure.
		This is even the edited tapes.
		And the door that's disappeared, lawyers and people that went inside said the bullets were going in from the outside.
		You can tell this for novices out there.
		When a bullet hits a metal door, it makes a small hole going in and a large hole going out.
		So this, again, government-sponsored terrorism in your country.
		You have people here looking at what's happened, looking at the final assault.
		You can see internal photos of a machine gun sniper mount, a machine gun and a sniper, crouching here.
		I don't know if the video camera can pick this up.
		Crouching from their sniper position.
		And as the people tried to exit the back, they fired on them.
		And again, Waco Rules of Engagement shows flare footage of that happening.
		You can see it right here.
		People that were killed by federal forces.
		Here you have the people that were killed by special military forces, black ops squads, that is, secret military squads that accompanied the feds.
		We're told also that some British special forces teams were inserted to kill all the witnesses because they couldn't have witnesses of what happened.
		And there, of course, you have the evidence before it was destroyed.
		The FBI and the BETF always bulldoze from Oklahoma City, the World Trade Center bombing, after they've done their handiwork.
		This is Clive Doyle's daughter.
		Did not deserve to be burned up in the building and shot as they tried to exit.
		We're here with Clive Doyle, one of the surviving Branch Davidians.
		He came down a couple months ago.
		We really appreciate you coming down to share the information, the knowledge of your run-in with the New World Order and what you'd call Antichrist forces here in Waco, Texas.
		I appreciate you having everybody out here.
		What do you think about An attorney general coming out here and speaking about what's happening in the police state.
unidentified		Well, Ramsey Clark has been a great friend ever since he got onto our civil case, and he has spoken just about every year for the last three years.
		The fact that an attorney general has the gumption to get up and talk the way he did, I think is a credit to his personality and his principles.
		I'd kind of like to see the day when Janet Reno would have enough gumption to come down here and say the same kind of things, but that may be down the road.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Well, so he was speaking out against the trilateralist control system, whereas she is the trilateralist control system.
unidentified		Well, I'm saying, I'm looking, hoping for a change, but whether we'll see it.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		You know, a lot's changed since the 60s.
unidentified		Sure.
		So, you know, we look forward, I think.
		I thought it was an interesting development that we had an FBI negotiator during the siege that actually came out.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Is he gone?
unidentified		I'm not sure.
unidentified		But it was the first time we've had a government agent, or ex-government agent, that was involved with the situation.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Did he apologize?
unidentified		He did to me.
unidentified		I don't know that he did publicly in so many words.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		What's his name?
unidentified		Faris Rookstool.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Oh, he was one of the guys on the phone, wasn't he?
unidentified		FBI negotiator.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Where is Ferris?
		I don't see Ferris.
		I'd love to ask him about that.
		But it's like you and others said on the phone, and David Koresh said on the phone, all he was was a message boy.
		Really, he didn't have any authority, correct?
unidentified		That's true.
unidentified		They had to acknowledge that somebody else was calling the shots, either from Washington or their commanders or whatever, and of course the mod squad out here in the tanks, they were doing all the damage anyway.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		That's the problem.
		You create military police.
		They like to kill.
		It doesn't matter if it's men, women, and children.
		Again, you lost your daughter in this.
unidentified		Sure.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		It just makes me so angry.
		I mean, you're a very peaceful person.
		I've got a chance to get to know you somewhat.
		And the people I meet are like the most innocent kind.
		I mean, some of the older ladies that survived are...
		How old is the oldest surviving Branch Davidian?
unidentified		Well, the oldest one in this area is 90. There's two of them that are in their 90s.
unidentified		One of them's in a rest home, the other one still active, you know.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Do you remember the made-for-TV movies that showed elderly women with huge automatic weapons firing?
unidentified		I can never watch that thing all the way through without getting mad, so I don't quite remember the old ladies, but I remember the movie.
		We had last year, we had the...
		The guy that wrote the script for that who did come and apologize.
		So I think, you know, there's hope for the worst kind of people.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		These people should be ashamed of what they're doing.
		Let me just ask you a question that's kind of, it's not off the subject, but what do you think about us buying all these goods from China made by political dissidents, 30 million at any one time, with a 25% attrition rate that's millions dead a year in these camps and the Chinese moving into Long Beach?
		Isn't this going to come back on all Americans?
		If we allow this to continue?
unidentified		Well, as far as buying goods that are made by cheap labor, whether it's from China or anywhere else, I think we've forced a lot of the businesses to go overseas for cheap labor because of the slave labor we have in our prison system.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		You said it.
unidentified		You know, you get people working for 10 cents an hour, how can the average businessman out there compete when he's at least got to pay the minimum wage?
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure you know that you've never been in trouble with the law in your life, had you, until this happened.
unidentified		I've never been in jail.
		They asked me when they booked me after they got me out of the hospital, took me down to the county jail and started to book me.
		They said, have you ever been in jail before?
		I said, many times, but never as an inmate.
		First time, you know.
		It's quite an experience.
		I would.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		And, you know, it's true.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Per land mass and population on both those statistics, Texas has more prisons than any country in the world, except for China or America.
unidentified		It's a business.
		They build them.
		More than they've got prisoners in Texas, so they bring in prisoners from elsewhere.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		That's why they're creating new crimes.
unidentified		Sure.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Sir, Clive Doyle, I really want to thank you for standing up strong against this.
		And more and more documentation is coming out like Waco Rules of Engagement.
		Is that a hard film for you to watch?
unidentified		Somewhat.
		It's hard enough to talk about it, let alone watch it over and over.
		But even myself, I've got footage from various CNN and C-SPAN and all those different clips.
		And I've been going through some of the stuff I've had just to try to find some things that I remember seeing and I want to use, you know, and just to sit there and live through it over and over again.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		What's this Bullets Over Waco?
unidentified		This is put out by Jeremiah Films.
		They're the ones that made the cover, I mean, the Clinton Chronicles, which you may have heard about.
		I haven't seen it yet.
		It's not out, not due out until May, but the producer was especially impressed with coming here and interviewing us.
		Seem to be really touched.
		So just whether he's got some bosses that want to chop it up and do a different story, I don't know.
		But it sounded like it was going to be pretty good.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Glob Doyle again, Surviving Branch Davidian.
		Thank you very much.
		There have been some documentaries, front documentaries by the establishment here in America, like PBS, that supposedly is giving us good information, where they continually refer to this as a cult and a compound.
		Did y'all?
		Did you refer to yourself as a cult or a compound, or was it a church?
unidentified		No, we never called ourselves a cult.
		It was a church.
		The place was called Mount Carmel Center, not Mount Carmel Compound.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		And it was wooden.
unidentified		Made of wood.
		Pretty flimsy, actually.
		When they brought the tanks in, you thought we were in an earthquake the way it shook.
		So it was not a fortified compound or a fortress of any kind.
		It was not a military base.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		What was it like to be in there with...
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Men, women, and children, and to have people running around in black ski masks with semi-automatic and automatic weapons firing at you.
unidentified		I didn't see any on the 19, so I can't tell you that.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		You didn't see any people?
unidentified		I didn't see any ski mask people in there.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Well, we've seen them in Austin.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		So is that a newer thing, just in the last few years since that happened, that they're now wearing ski masks?
unidentified		Oh, they had scheme-ass people that I've seen photographs of on the outside, but I didn't see any in the building.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I got you.
unidentified		I thought you meant inside, running around inside.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's some information that's now coming out in this next documentary that's being put out by the same people that put out Waco Rules of Engagement.
		And I've talked to some of the lawyers, Mr. Brennan and others, that it's pretty much documented.
		I know you were trying to get out for your life and get other people to safety.
		We're being told now that some special forces teams, perhaps from Britain, were sent in with breathing apparatus.
unidentified		I'm not aware of that, but then we were isolated.
unidentified		Those of us that were in the chapel were pretty much cut off from people down the other end because of all the damage they'd done to the building.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Let me ask you one more question.
		You and others have talked about how the water tanks had holes in the top, and the only way the water tanks could have holes in the top was from the helicopters.
		Did you see helicopters firing?
unidentified		I did not see the helicopters firing.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Did anyone see them?
unidentified		Catherine saw them.
		Other people saw them.
		Marjorie Thomas, who's from England, who was badly burned.
		She said that her testimony, which she did a video deposition for the trial, but I don't think it ever played in its entirety.
		But in that deposition, she said that some of the girls were looking out the window on the north end in the tower, and they were acting sort of agitated.
		She walked over to look and see what they were looking at, and she looked out the window, and she jerked her head back because this helicopter was so close to the glass.
		It scared her.
		I mean, it was so close.
		And as she jerked her head back, bullets came through and smashed the glass just where she'd been looking at it.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		And this is right during the first assault?
unidentified		Right, yeah.
unidentified		This is part of the initial shooting.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Were helicopters used in the second and final assault?
unidentified		Well, they definitely had planes taking this infrared or this flare tape.
		Some say there was a fixed wing.
		Some say there was helicopters.
		They were buzzing the building throughout with these jet-type helicopters, these black ones, throughout the 51 days.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Well, even though we see these black and dark green helicopters, the media tells us that they don't exist.
		Do they exist?
		Even though you have photographs in here of them.
		What would you say to the public out there?
unidentified		I don't know where they get the idea they don't exist.
		I guess it's the same place they say that they never fly with the doors open, when you can see the footage you see right through them, you know?
		Got doors open on both sides.
		They did it in Vietnam, they did it in Waco, and yet they deny that they're allowed to do that.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		But at least our guys in Vietnam are going to fight an enemy who was armed.
		It's pretty sick.
		I mean, you know this better than I, to come attack children.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
		This didn't need to happen.
		It shouldn't have happened.
		But apparently they had an agenda.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that there will be more state-sponsored terrorisms like Waco?
unidentified		I don't think it's over.
		My Bible tells me that this beast makes war on God's people and overcomes them and kills them up to a certain point.
		And I don't think you've seen the last of it.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		So this is just the beginning?
unidentified		It seems that way.
unidentified		That's what my Bible tells me.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Clive, thank you very much.
unidentified		I think it's going to get worse before it gets better.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Appreciate that.
unidentified		Thank you.
steve lane ▲ ● ▼		Ringing the bell that so many people were from England.
		Now, were those people still British citizens?
		Now, has the government of Britain gotten involved in the investigation in any way?
		Or have they expressed no interest?
unidentified		We've tried to stir up response from the British government by writing to people and asking them to go direct and ask questions and put it to them how come they didn't do anything about their own citizens.
		And they got a pretty nasty attitude in England, apparently.
		They just wiped them all off and said, well, they were all from elsewhere, you know, from Jamaica or Nigeria or whatever, and just wrote them off.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Well, Mr. Brennan, the lawyer for some of the murdered children, that's why he was saying that it now looks like with some documents they've uncovered.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		He said this down at the last conference that y'all came down to Austin, that that's why they use some British intelligence, because it's well known in the intelligence community, if you're going to do an operation involving people from another country that we're allied with, you'll allow that country to do your work for you.
unidentified		It's possible.
unidentified		I don't know anything about that at this point.
steve lane ▲ ● ▼		I just was completely shocked by the fact that, I mean, confirm this or deny it, that seemingly the British government has had...
steve lane ▲ ● ▼		Basically, no interest at all in investigating what happened here.
unidentified		The Israeli government and the New Zealand government and the Canadian government are the same, but of all of them, England lost the most citizens.
steve lane ▲ ● ▼		That's what I was struck by, and I can't imagine that if British citizens were in South Africa or some of these other outposts...
steve lane ▲ ● ▼		In the world that if as many people, as many British citizens were killed, theirs were killed here, I can't imagine that they would sit on their hands and seemingly do nothing.
unidentified		You'd almost think they'd have a war over it, wouldn't you?
steve lane ▲ ● ▼		That's what I mean.
unidentified		It was shocking to me.
unidentified		I haven't got a satisfactory answer from anybody on that myself.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Perhaps the U.S.-Britain power axis in banking is just really one beast.
unidentified		It's just like when I called British Embassy.
unidentified		And British consuls and stuff here in this country in regards to the situation with Livingston being beaten up by 300-pound guards and fire hoses put on him.
steve lane ▲ ● ▼		Because he's still a British citizen.
unidentified		Yes, and so their responses just palmed it up.
unidentified		Well, you need to contact such-and-such a consul in such-and-such a city because that's who's over Kansas.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		And then they say you contact such-and-such.
unidentified		Yeah, they just keep passing you along.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		After 100 calls, you're back at the same place.
unidentified		Whether they finally got into it or not, you know.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Is he still being tortured?
unidentified		Right now, he's out of Leavenworth.
unidentified		He's in Oklahoma, and they're supposed to be going to have a grand jury indictment of some of the guards up there at Leavenworth.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Why would these guards do this?
unidentified		Well, apparently they were doing it not just to Livingston, but to a lot of people.
		But Livingston, of course, he's black for one thing.
		He's about 130 pounds.
		He's just a little guy.
		They probably figured they'd get away with it.
		But they were doing it to other prisoners, and so...
		They've pulled all those prisoners out, from what I understand, to protect them until they can testify at this grand jury against these guards.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Thanks a lot, Clive.
unidentified		Okay.
steve lane ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		We're here at the site where the people were killed, here at Mount Carmel Church.
		And for every person that was murdered here, they planted a crepe myrtle and some flowers for the murdered people.
		This is a caring community out here.
		They fixed cars, they were postmen, and yes, they sold firearms to law-abiding citizens.
		And for doing this, they were murdered in cold blood for a publicity stunt for Bill Clinton.
		And then the government, and again, from ex-FBI chiefs to General Parton, ex-Sative Air Force Weapons Development, to Ted Gunderson, FBI chief, Oklahoma City was done by black ops, secret government squads.
		On April 19th in 1995, Two years later, because Clinton's approval rating was plunging, and they needed to overshadow this terrible memory with the memory of the government dying.
		So just be aware of that.
		Just like Hitler burnt the Reichstag in 1933, they blew up Oklahoma City to make sure that no one ever remembers this.
		But it's backfired on them.
		People know what's happened in both cases.
		Government terrorism.
		There is Serenity C. Jones, April 19, 1993, age 4, murdered by...
		MJTF, military police forces, under Clinton's command.
		Fixing to go show you a real live agent provocateur.
		What's his name, Mike?
		Fixing to go show you a real live agent provocateur, and the media is clustered around him.
		They don't want to talk to ex-attorney generals.
		No, no, no.
		They want to talk to agent provocateurs.
		One more thing.
		If all I say...
		It's a lie.
		Why isn't the government coming in prison to me?
		Because they don't want an investigation.
		They don't want me to bring out in some type of trial all the information.
		Our government is blowing up buildings and murdering churches.
		We're here with Jack DuVault and he wrote Waco Whitewash.
		Sir, you've been talking about this ever since it happened and Do you feel that people know more and more now in America exactly what really happened here, or do you think that there's a lot of work still to be done?
unidentified		There's a tremendous amount of work to be done.
		Most people are slowly forgetting what has happened here, and the word is not getting out.
		There are all kinds of...
		Materials available on the internet, my book for example.
		In my book, I followed the trial very closely, and in that book I showed About eight examples of indictable offenses by federal officers and agents, and nothing has ever been done about it.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		And talk about the unprofessional behavior, mooning and showing their genitalia to the women and children, playing the sounds of dying rabbits, firing in from the first day and on the last day with helicopters and sniper-mounted positions.
unidentified		And lying about it continuously, lying and lying and lying.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		But the real crime is the mainstream controlled media, isn't it?
unidentified		That's right.
		That's right.
		If the truth was out, if the...
		Well, actually, the controlled media is controlled by Slick and Reno, as far as that goes.
		And if they were telling the truth, then the media would tell the truth.
		But they won't tell the truth.
		So I don't know how to compel them to tell the truth.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		What is it like, though, to know what's going on, to know what's happening, to see Americans believing this saddening propaganda?
unidentified		Well, it's disheartening, but I... I'm not Branch Davidian by any means.
unidentified		I don't hold to many of their doctrines, except that I know there's a God.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		And you're a First Amendment.
unidentified		And I know that God is in control of this whole mess.
		Actually, I have kind of an apothe...
		Apocalyptic view of what's going to happen when the year 2000 comes down with the computer.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Y2K? Yes.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		We just had a thumb scanning protest where I was arrested, the biometrics, and yes, I believe they're going to create a crash and make you thumb scan or retina scan to buy and sell.
unidentified		Well, I believe that the entire culture is going to have a severe culture shock because I think that we're going into an economic...
		Spiritual change.
		I think that everything is going to change because people who have thought that they were building their security all these years...
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		We're building their slavery.
unidentified		Yeah, that's right.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Building their own cage.
unidentified		Correct.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Sir, I really appreciate that, and I want to get you on my radio show.
unidentified		Okay, thank you very much.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Jack.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		I'm saying, sir, you came here during the siege, correct?
unidentified		During the siege.
		We came up here.
		I engineered maybe 40 people.
		Involved in the operation rescue business, saving babies' lives, unborn babies' lives.
		And so I felt that here were some born babies' lives that needed to be saved, and I was convinced that they were going to die during the siege.
		I was convinced that they weren't going to let them out.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Because you saw the mentality?
unidentified		That's right, that's right.
		The federal government officials...
		Have this compulsion to be in charge, to win no matter what, to absolutely overpower any opposition.
		And this was what I observed, and I also knew the hearts of these people that were here, and they just were going to be steadfast.
		They were not going to be movable.
		And so we came up here with about 40 people about, I guess it was a month before the siege ended in the fire.
		And we made an effort to walk in.
		Five miles away here, and there were FBI agents, ATF agents, state troopers, sheriff's department, all out forcing us not to step across the line.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		So it was an MJTF operation?
unidentified		Well, more or less, we all had armbands on.
		I had had armbands made that said, Unarmed Patriot, so that when we got shot, the press was out there, if we got shot, we would at least be identified.
		We didn't even have the courage, though, to step into the face of those AK armed men that were guarding every road, every approach.
		We came around to the backside over here.
		We tried to come across the field there, and they had helicopters circling us all the time.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Now, Jack, sir, I know you're in the military, and I know you're an author and everything, but come now.
		Helicopters don't exist.
		They're only building a huge helicopter base in Austin for surveillance with infrared.
		Please, please, just don't see those black helicopters.
unidentified		Of course, these helicopters were not black.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		They were pink.
		Yes, sir, but why are you not engaging in the mass delusion?
		Please engage in it with the rest of culture.
unidentified		See, when I joined the Air Force, I've taken the oath of office five different times.
		I joined the Navy during World War II. I joined the Air Force as an enlisted man.
		I then went to aviation cadets.
		I then was commissioned.
		I then got a regular commission.
		Each of those times, I had to take the oath of office.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Would you please tell us that oath?
unidentified		That said, I will defend the Constitution of the United States.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		From enemies?
unidentified		From enemies within and without.
		Foreign and domestic.
		That oath has not gone away just because I got out of the service.
		I was not released from that oath.
		That oath was under God.
		And I still have that obligation.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Just like Michael New.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Would you have refused as a young man to try to put you under UN control?
unidentified		I hope I would have the courage of Michael New.
unidentified		He's a good friend of mine, and I think that he did a spectacular job and is still doing a spectacular job.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much, sir.
		And it's a good book I've heard.
		I haven't read it, but I hear that...
unidentified		I'm not a very good writer, but it's got a lot of good information.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Thanks a lot, sir.
		We're standing on the spot, just feet away from the front door where the cattle trailers...
		With people girded in black pulled up and opened fire on men, women, and children.
		And above us were circling black and dark green military helicopters with infrared scopes firing incessantly on the people.
		And again, this has all been documented with FBI footage that was snuck out by defense attorneys.
		This is incredible.
		The people were murdered right here on the spot when men, women, and children burnt inside this structure.
		And this was all, again, part of state-sponsored terrorism to push the envelope, to test and to see what they could get away with.
		Now I'm standing on the spot where David Koresh opened the door, raised his hands and said, as they charged him, with a dynamic entry, he said, hey, let's talk.
		We have women and children here.
		They opened fire, he was injured, and some of his associates were killed.
		They then called 911. As the fire continued, more people were killed.
		Thugs, impotent weaklings, continued to fire into this structure.
		And no excuses, no amount of government propaganda can cover up the shameful events that happened here at Mount Carmel.
		You know, there's a common thread in all of this, from Oklahoma City to the World Trade Center bombing to, of course, Waco.
		They always destroy the evidence and don't let locals in to document anything.
		What do they have to hide?
		If this was some murderous cult, as the TV shows told us, then what did they have to hide?
		Why do they always destroy the remains?
		This building was burnt to the ground, but they still bulldozed the entire foundation and pushed it up in a heap, in a monument to the wreckage of the police state.
		Welcome to the New World Order.
		Right up there on the podium, here at the five-year remembrance of the slaughter here, is Ramsey Clark, ex-Attorney General of the United States of America.
		And he is there telling you that we are under federal control.
		The military is training with local law enforcement.
		This is absolute police state.
		Nazi Germany is right upon us.
		But this time it's going to be not racial, but environmental and socialist.
		It's the real deal, ladies and gentlemen, and you can't deny it.
unidentified		They're suffering and sharing it, and remember the suffering of the Palestinian people, and prevent it.
		We have to love all the people, and prevent violence, and demilitarize the planet.
		And in the ancient Hebrew words of Deuteronomy, above all, our command is to set it, to set it, tiered off.
		Justice, justice, thou shalt pursue.
		God bless you, everyone.
		I have one more speaker that I'd like to introduce.
		And he didn't even know he was going to talk here today.
		But it's the talk show host that put together the busload of people that came up from Austin, Texas.
		He's on radio station KJFK in Austin.
		Does a program called The Real Spin.
		His name is Alex Jones.
		Alex?
		Yeah!
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's hard to speak after Ramsey Clark, attorney general during the Carter administration Did you hear what he was just telling you?
		There is a massive consolidation.
		Of local police departments under federal control, the Multi-Jurisdictional Task Force and the JTF-6, which is based at Fort Bliss, Texas.
		They wear black ski masks.
		They train in military tactics.
		And they are the big gun and the long arm of the IRS and the criminal system that is running this nation.
		Make no mistake, the murders of these people and these children was about one thing and one thing only.
		It was about terrorism against the American people.
		It was about testing and pushing the limits to see if the government could surround a group, if they could kill those people and burn it to the ground.
		Waco Rules of Engagement shows the automatic weapons fire as men and women tried to exit the back of the building.
		That's where most of the bodies were found, right in the edge.
		Hit squads, military black ops, the same ones that destroyed Oklahoma City, just like Hitler burnt the Reichstag in 1933. I mean, where is our country when Ex-Attorney Generals of the United States of America are here telling you that Reno and the rest of them and the Republicans and the Democrats are all the same people.
		I mean, it just makes my heart swell with pride that we do have people like Ramsey Clark and others and this whole crowd out here that is standing in defiance of tyranny.
		And I'll take a line from that movie Braveheart.
		What would you give dying in your bed all these years from now to have just once stood up in defiance of tyranny to put on the armor and to ride out on the field against the enemy?
		And violence is not the way to go.
		They are the ones that use violence.
		They are the ones that are dangerous.
		Understand that.
		We've got to use information like Waco.
		Rules of Engagement.
		I mean, that documentary is so powerful because it doesn't exaggerate.
		It doesn't lie.
		For three hours, it lays out the information for you to see.
		And where is the mainstream media editing this information out?
		You have federal agents killing men, women, and children.
unidentified		They came that day and opened fire first.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Helicopters came in and assaulted.
		And now we find out, and it's going to come out in the next documentary.
		And think about this.
		That they sent in death squads with breathing apparatus to kill those people inside because they couldn't have any witnesses of what really happened on the first day of the 51-day standoff.
		So we're dealing with murder, we're dealing with terrorism against the American people, and this is nothing new in the history of the world.
		Authoritarian regimes always seek to control the modes of finance, the printing of money, transportation.
		Food production, you name it, it's all coming under federal control under the guise of environmentalism, which is nothing but a cult now.
		It's very, very serious.
		Somebody has got to stand up.
		More people have got to stand up.
		FEMA, under Senate Resolution 21, is building hundreds of concentration camps on military bases.
		Set up for families.
		Areas for men.
		Areas for women.
		Areas for women with children.
		And areas for men who have families on the other side of the camp.
		And by the way, they have triple the guard towers.
		And I have played this many times on my television show.
		It's just out of control.
		I have congressmen on tape, Henry B. Gonzalez and others, admitting this.
		Look at the world.
		And then I'm going to get off here because others have a lot more to say than me.
		Hitler killed 40 million.
		The Communists in Russia killed about 100 million.
		The Communist Chinese, we're not sure, 100, 200 million.
		And it's still going on.
		We're buying slave goods from these people.
		They're moving into Long Beach Naval Base.
		They're moving into the high desert of California at Victorville and Atalanto and building 20 mini-malls to bring in slave goods directly.
		This is a de-industrialization of our plan.
		And it is just sick what's happening to our country.
		And people have got to stand up.
		Against it if freedom is going to survive.
		And the plans are there.
		Make no mistake, but don't be fearful.
		People that lay down.
		I mean, ask yourself, how did the Germans allow Hitler to come to power?
		They believed it's propaganda.
		Most of the death camps were off in Poland.
unidentified		Keep it away.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Keep it on military bases.
		Keep it behind closed doors.
		This is what's happening.
		Make no mistake.
		And the mainstream media is going around last week in Austin.
		A mainstream media station went out and had reporters on the street asking, where will terrorists strike next?
		They're introducing this into the psychology.
		They're creating a new cosmology of fear and preparing people for terrorism.
		And I just want to warn you one more time.
		State-sponsored terrorism is the number one brand worldwide.
		Oklahoma City was terrorism.
		What happened right here where I'm standing in Waco?
		Back in 1993, on April 19th, with state-sponsored terrorism, it was a test to see if you'd lay down.
		And I'm telling you something, they're taken back now because their propaganda and their lies worked for a while, but you see that the polls are changing.
		More and more people are waking up to what's happening.
		So I want to challenge you to talk to ten people a week, get them to see Waco Rules of Engagement.
		I have nothing to do with this documentary, but it's so incredibly powerful.
		You have got to get this and get it into congressmen's hands, your friends' hands, judges in your local cities, because this can be a revelation to the people of America, to the people that just want to be pragmatic.
		To the people that are just relativists and don't care as long as charity doesn't come knocking on their door.
		And I'll just paraphrase this.
		We've all heard the famous quotes and statements.
		When they came for the Jews, they didn't come for me, so I left it alone.
		When they came for the Catholics, when they came for all these different groups, I stayed there.
		And finally, when they came for me, there was nobody left to stand up for me.
		This is the real deal.
		This is human history.
		Foggy conspiracy theory.
		I have to tell you, three years ago, four years ago, I thought what happened at Waco was wrong.
		But I thought, I mean, I believed a little bit of the propaganda.
		I thought, well, you know, this and that.
		And the more I studied this, the more I found out it's worse than even what Waco Rules of Engagement or Day 51 Had to offer and that's why I'm glad that they're coming out with a new documentary because this is what it's going to take.
		It's going to take information to the public.
		Information is power.
		So stop reacting and start acting and stand up against this police state or we're going into 100% taxation, 100% tyranny.
		And just because it's packaged sweetly and has a nice flashy exterior, the interior is barbed wire and pure slavery.
		Thank you all for being here.
unidentified		Thanks, Alex.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		He was attorney general during LBJ's administration, and he said some very stunning information that a lot of us in the freedom movement know about, but a lot of people out there in the mainstream because of the press don't know about.
		He was talking about the growing police state.
		Sir, would you like to make some comments on that?
unidentified		Well, our government has become the greatest purveyor of violence on Earth, as Dr. King said it was in 1967. But today it's gone beyond all reasonable bounds.
		$265 billion in military expenditures, which is probably half of all the military expenditures in the world.
		It exceeds the next biggest government by five-fold.
		It exceeds the entire military expenditures of the National Security Council.
		And it includes things like the Trident II nuclear submarine, which could wipe out millions and millions of people with a single launch.
		It trains people like the School for the Americas to go into Chiapas, Mexico, and kill Mayan Indians who were starving to death with our NAFTA thing that's driven their corn off the market because they can't compete with us and can't sell their surplus corn to make a little money to buy some water purifiers so their kids don't get sick and die from polluted.
		Water.
		This militarism, you know, we'd never had a standing army before the Civil War.
		Now we've got this huge standing army with more than 200,000 troops permanently stationed overseas, the largest naval armada in the world since World War II and the Persian Gulf on a permanent basis.
		And that's not the land of the free and the home of the brave.
		We weren't cut out to do that.
		Here at home, you see things like Waco, which show that we carry over our militarism right into our churches to assault church people.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes, sir.
		My first question is, or my first statement about this is, is you're absolutely right.
		I mean, we have military training, people in black ski masks, with the MJTF, Multi-Jurisdictional Task Forces, training directly with our local law enforcement in Austin, Texas, where I'm from, and I found out that this is a nationwide movement.
unidentified		Sure it is.
		And the sad part is, you know, the cop is supposed to be our friend on the beat.
		He's the one who gets the cat out of the tree and takes care of the lost kids and stops someone from burglarizing a home and stuff like that.
		Instead, they love to be SWAT team.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		It's the thin blue line.
		They're teaching them.
		In fact, I've heard police...
unidentified		Pretty thick blue line right now.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		I've done interviews at protests and things, and the police walk up and say, stay behind the demarcation line.
		And you'll hear them talking.
		Watch the civilians.
		They're using military terminology.
		Is this dangerous?
unidentified		Of course it's dangerous.
		The paramilitary concept of police is a police state, you know.
		And our Constitution was created to prevent a police state.
		Yet our police expenditures, our creation of the fear of crime and the belief that you can solve crime by more prisons, by the death penalty, and by beating people in the head is crazy.
		It's just war with our own society, and you see it come to a head at a peaceful church outside of Waco, Texas, Mount Carmel.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		And just to talk a little bit more about the police state, and I appreciate you doing this interview, Mr. Clark.
		That is the dangerous part about it.
		Eisenhower, Kennedy, many others warned us about the military-industrial complex, and now since we've dominated the whole planet, they are now still selling fear, but now they're selling fear of the American people.
		They're making us the enemy.
unidentified		Well, I think that's right.
		Our prison population in Texas is the worst of all in many ways, just as Texas is absolutely the worst on the death penalty.
		Half the people executed in the United States last year were executed in Texas.
		You've got the...
		Literally, you've got the Pope pleading with us not to execute people.
		You've got the United Nations Human Rights Commission pleading with us.
		South Africa, who caused us, when apartheid was in power there, to abolish the death penalty, as we did when I was Attorney General.
		We cut out the death penalty.
		We haven't had a federal execution since 1963, but we could point to South Africa, where they were executing a person a day, all black.
		And we didn't want to be like that, so we abolished it.
		Now they've abolished the death penalty in South Africa.
		The Constitution has abolished it.
		The Parliament's abolished it.
		The Supreme Court's abolished it.
		And we're the Lord High Executioner.
		We've got more than 3,000 people on death row.
		What does that mean?
		No free society tells people, do what we say or we'll kill you.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		I mean, that's the mentality of a police state.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Well, Mr. Clark, just a couple more questions.
		Again, Attorney General in the LBJ administration.
		And you also worked in the Kennedy and the...
		Carter administration?
unidentified		I worked eight years Kennedy-Johnson.
unidentified		I did one assignment, maybe two, for President Carter, the first one having to do with the hostages.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		I was mistaken.
		I got up in front of the podium and got it mixed up.
		But the thing that I don't think that the American public realizes is that this military training is going on.
		What are some things that we can do to get this reversed, hopefully?
unidentified		Well, I think we have to...
		Resist at every level.
		If you don't work at the national level, you can't expect the local level.
		I mean, after all, we're providing a lot of federal funds for the local level, and they love it.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		And that brings control.
unidentified		It brings control.
		It brings technology.
		It brings things they don't need, you know.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Infrared.
unidentified		Who needed tanks out here?
unidentified		Yeah, you've got everything that billions and billions of dollars of research and development to provide the military are now being...
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		It's going into civilian control.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Have you seen Waco Rules of Engagement?
unidentified		Sure.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		It's horrifying, isn't it?
unidentified		It's horrifying.
unidentified		The whole story is even more horrifying.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Sir, I didn't actually see this last year, but I heard about it reported in some of the alternative press.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Is it true that last year you spoke about how the Trilateral Commission is running the country?
unidentified		Well, I've criticized the Trilateral Commission for many years, but I don't really think the Trilateral Commission is running the country.
unidentified		CFR? I think the same people are...
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		They control it.
unidentified		The same people that run the CFR, the Council on Foreign Relations.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Those are just front groups?
unidentified		Sure.
unidentified		I mean, they're just...
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Meeting houses.
unidentified		They're organizations through which they implement their power, and it's an international group that maintains power through the multinational corporations and the media and all the rest.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		And wouldn't you say that now what you have is corporate socialism for them and slavery for us?
unidentified		Well, you've got corporate wealth for them.
unidentified		They don't...
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		It's called stealing.
unidentified		It could be called stealing, although it's stealing on such a grand scale that you'd have to call it grand larceny, I think.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
		I think I've said this three times, but just the last...
		Well, are there any comments or things that you'd like to say to the audience in Austin who's going to be watching this about what they...
		I mean, I just want to go back to solutions.
		We see an awakening in the nation, and we see the establishment and the media becoming conscious of this, and now I've seen a new tactic.
		They're now disclosing more and more abhorrent information in an attempt to desensitize this, in my opinion.
		Would you agree with that, and do you have any comments to that?
unidentified		Well, propaganda is one of the main means.
		They employ demonization, fear of crime, and things like that.
		But every individual...
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		The Hegelian principle?
unidentified		Every individual has an obligation to...
		Don't be involved in this struggle if you want to live free and want your children who come after to live free.
		You can't be a bystander.
		And right now we really risk the spread of militarization throughout the world that is endangering the poor everywhere.
		It's a desire to...
		We're controlled by force.
		There's so many people and so much poverty, and there's so much technology that can destroy people that it's being employed against people everywhere.
		The poor here, the poor nations abroad, so we have to work on...
		We're slashing our military budget to the bare bones.
		It ought to be slashed 90%.
		We've got to cut back on all hardware for police.
		Police ought to serve the people, not be a force.
		It shouldn't be a paramilitary concept.
		It ought to be a social service concept that deals sensitively with the people.
		We have to deal with the basic problems.
		While we have poverty, we're going to have the problems that poverty creates.
		Poverty is the mother of crime.
		Plato told us that 2,500 years ago, and it was pretty obvious then.
		It's pretty obvious now.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Got to go.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, thanks a lot.
		Appreciate it.
		And as a result, the men, women, and children died.
		Also, one of the tanks drove inside the structure, and this is even admitted to by the FBI, and there was an inside area, an area where they stored food and things that was concrete, and they thought that was the safest area because most of the structure was wood right over there.
		They drove directly in and pumped CS gas, a banned form of chemical weapon.
		Point-blank range into children's faces.
		They don't make gas masks that fit two- and three- and four-year-old children, my friends.
		This is incredible.
		No matter what propaganda you want to believe, those babies did not deserve to be murdered by the black ski mask thugs.
		That didn't come out in the trial.
		You're some kind of provocateur.
		In fact, you're one of those FBI agents, aren't you?
		Hey, we're in the middle of one of our interviews right now.
		I don't personally, I don't give a damn.
unidentified		I don't give a damn about the jury either.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, you're not going to do anything to me.
		These people are murderers.
		These people are murderers.
		I'm sick and tired of hearing your lies when you machine gunned a bunch of men, women, and children.
		You got a big problem, buddy.
		You sit over here.
		I'm not afraid of you guys.
		I'm a law-abiding citizen, and I'm sick of it.
		You sit over here and you talk about how the children huddle in the corner and how the ammunition that they had is what killed them.
		All the rest of your garbage?
		You ought to be ashamed of yourself.
		You don't stand up for the Constitution.
		You stand for zip, not a zero.
unidentified		I heard that.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		You have no calm aplomb.
		It's false, my friend.
		And let me tell you, a lot of people are writing down your names.
		You can follow people around.
		You can harass people.
		You can back up your bankster buddies.
		But a revolution of peaceful information is coming.
		And when it comes time, you people are going to be brought to punishment.
		You understand?
		Just like Nuremberg.
		Just taking orders doesn't cut it, my friend.
		You understand me?
unidentified		I think I've assessed you.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, oh, you've assessed me.
		Listen, you can sit there and say some kind of little joke.
		All your texts put garbage, my friend.
		I got people like General Parton, ex-head of Air Force Weapons Development.
		We know the federal government destroyed Oklahoma.
		It's proven.
		We know what you guys are engaged in, just like Hitler burnt the Reichstag.
		We know you brought Nazis over here through the rat line to set up our CIA after the OSS. So you can't sit here.
		You can assess me all day.
		I want you to assess me.
		I've assessed you.
		A smiley face slime ball that sits here in soft pedals and tries to placate the media.
		Waco Rules of Engagement shows your agents machine gunning men, women, and children as they tried to exit.
		One of the inventors of Flare Technology, worth hundreds of millions of dollars, is on that documentary.
		He is of the establishment.
unidentified		If you would review the documentary, you'd find out I'm in the film as well.
unidentified		Yeah.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes, I just saw you over here.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		I watched the first time it came out.
unidentified		You obviously haven't reviewed it.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		You are backpedaling.
unidentified		Okay, that's fine.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		I think it is soft pedaling.
		I heard enough.
		I sat over there for about three minutes to listen to you.
unidentified		Then you can move on.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I am moving on, but you're not in control of the situation, Mr. Assessor.
unidentified		Okay.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		I'll tell you, I'll just stand right here.
unidentified		Good.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		I mean, you sit there.
unidentified		I'm not sitting.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		I'm standing.
		No, you're not looking down on me, okay?
		You sit there all smiley-faced.
unidentified		You've already prejudged me.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		I can look down on you all I want to, Mr. Good, good.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's fine, Mr. Okay, good.
unidentified		Are you ready to move on?
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		I'd like to, if you don't mind.
unidentified		Didn't you hear what I said?
		Didn't you hear what I said?
		No.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but we don't need this type of placating.
		Somebody coming in and saying, oh, I'm so sorry that we did this.
		We don't need that.
		We need indictments.
		Then you need to go and you need to call for indictments of Janet Reno.
		Are you calling for an indictment of Janet Reno?
unidentified		No.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Herman, Goering, and Drag?
		No.
		Oh, so you're not calling for Herman, Goering, and Drag?
unidentified		What about the people who ran the tanks through this place?
unidentified		Yeah.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Well, here you have it, right here.
		We're told that the bunker was here where the children cowered, where they drove directly in with the tank and pumped in the CS gas in point blank range, and then they pushed all the rubble over there.
		So the bunker was somewhere over in this area.
		This is just more of Big Brother, and we just went over there to one of the FBI negotiators, who's now over here soft peddling things.
		And he's not calling for indictments of Reno.
		Herman Goering and Drag.
		You know, all these slaves are going to get what they asked for.
		The IRS bending people over all day and all night.
		It's a real pleasure to stand up to Big Brother and all these slimy cronies.
		Let's get out of here.
		I want to get out of this place.
		This place is depressing.
		He sat right there and looked me in the eye and talked about, "I'm assessing you, that FBI assessor, that FBI con man that came out here, that negotiator." And he's sorry about what happened, but tries to put some of the blame on the Davidians.
		I'm here to tell you right now what they did was out of control and wrong.
		And if he's so good at assessing people, then he sure as hell assessed the Davidians wrong.
		And they sure as hell murdered those people.
		I'm not going to sit down with...
unidentified		San Diego.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Do you know Anthony Hilder?
unidentified		No.
		No, do you know...
		Well, Tom...
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		All right, we're leaving, guys.
		It's been a big success.
		I just chewed out an FBI agent, that piece of garbage.
		We'll be right back.
		There it is.
		We're gone.
		We're leaving the scene of terror.
unidentified		Where's the FBI agent?
unidentified		Which one's the FBI agent?
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		I went and shoot him out way down there.
unidentified		Is that on tape?
		Yeah I forgot why I got so angry You know I forgot why I got so angry
		Y'all ready?
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		I blew up at that FBI negotiator because, you know, I forgot once I got in an argument with him and he played good cop, bad cop, Mr. Sweetie Pants.
		I was sitting there listening for about three minutes while he was talking about the poor children and all this, but Koresh had explosives and live grenades and illegal weapons and 500,000 rounds of ammunition was above them and fell and crushed the children.
		No, they had bullet holes in their heads and the footage shows, Waco rules of engagement, automatic weapons fire.
		That's why I'm pissed.
		Yeah, but you're saying that they had 500,000 rounds of ammunition.
unidentified		On top of them?
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		They didn't have 500,000 rounds of ammunition.
		I just talked to Clive Doyle.
unidentified		Oh, and Clive is the expert on the total number of pieces of ammo.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Yes!
		He's up there lying, the same reason they got that phony warrant and went in there and killed those people!
		I mean, when are we going to stop letting these people placate us?
		It's a bunch of crap.
		A bunch of kids got killed, and that's why I got in that punk's face.
		And I don't care if he runs back and fills out some report on me.
		I don't care if they send somebody to blow my brains out.
		Because if we don't start standing up to these punks, we're going to take the whole damn country over.
		They already control the whole world, and this nation is sinking right now into authoritarian control.
		And, hey, I'm not repeating the same thing over and over again.
		It'll be the same thing tomorrow.
		We are in a police state.
		It's only how many increments will we allow?
		What will be the level, the decibel level, of this slave state?
		So, again, the reason I got mad at that guy, and I totally forgot during the argument because I was so angry, was I heard him over there talking about live grenades.
		There were no live grenades found.
		There were a few dummy grenades that you can buy as a paperweight on your desk.
		You see them?
		And yes, they did sell them.
		You can go to an Army-Navy store and buy them.
unidentified		And all the live grenades that there were was ones that had the FBI.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		The FBI admits that they were firing ferret rounds, explosive incendiary rounds, into a place that they've pumped CS gas into that's highly flammable!
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		No wonder the whole place burst into flames.
unidentified		God!
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		And you got that FBI stooge up there soft-soaking to the media.
		I'm sick of them.
		That's why I got pissed off at him.
		Somebody's got to do it.
unidentified		Did anybody ask him the question about all the evidence that they tried to suppress there at the scene, such as bulldozing the cars?
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		I was only listening for about three minutes.
		He was pointing to a pile of rubble that was the bulldozed bunker and saying that was the bunker.
		Here's where the poor children died.
		You know, Koresh had all those guns and 500,000 rounds of, which is pure bull.
		That's millions and millions of dollars of ammunition.
		Yes, 500,000 rounds of ammunition above them.
		They were sitting there saying that and live grenades.
		That's just pure lies.
		It was something that Clive Doyle, one of the Survali Branch Davidians, who was in all 51 days and barely got out alive through the front and crawled out on the ground with burns all over his body.
		All the guns were at a gun show, or 90% of them, And think back to the Senate hearings with Arlen Specter.
		Think about this.
		Now, this is very important.
		Those guns weren't burnt.
		Those MAC-90s and weapons that they held up that were legal guns, semi-automatic versions, fully automatic versions, they were brown wood.
		They weren't even burnt.
unidentified		They just went and got some guns and just said, it's all lies.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		When are we going to get sick and tired of this?
unidentified		Who's got the guns, Alex?
		Who's got the guns now?
		And where's the missing front door?
		They showed, because all the holes in the door were all incoming rounds from outside into the building, and there's two white steel doors, and the one on the left is the only one that they'll show the public, and the one on the right with all the incoming bullet holes in it, as I'll show you in this picture right and the one on the right with all the incoming bullet Stop asking questions, right winger.
		Let me find the picture here, Mike.
		You can plainly see BATF agents kneeling unprotected, not behind anything, right in front of the front door, and you can see the incoming bullet holes in the white steel doors.
		Bullet holes.
		One of them, the one with the damning evidence, has mysteriously disappeared, and the rest of the rubble has, of course, all been destroyed.

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