Alex Jones and Steve Lane attend the 5th Annual Waco Remembrance, labeling the 1993 siege a "Butcher Massacre" orchestrated by Bill Clinton and the BATF to secure funding. They allege black ops squads, potentially British, used ferret rounds and CS gas to kill children while mainstream media suppressed evidence of tampering by officials like Frederick Whitehurst. Joining Jack DuVault, Jones argues these events were state-sponsored terrorism designed to overshadow falling approval ratings, mirroring Hitler's Reichstag fire, and accuses Janet Reno and Dick Cheney of controlling a globalist agenda toward corporate socialism. Ultimately, the discussion frames Waco as a pivotal moment in the rise of a militarized police state under Trilateral Commission influence. [Automatically generated summary]
We're traveling, myself and Steve Lane and many others, to Waco to the scene of the April 19, 1993 Butcher Massacre of Clinton.
The impotent, pus-filled agent, trying to feel empowered, ordered his henchmen to go out and murder a church community and then drum up all sorts of propaganda as a test to see if they can kill people in the future.
And as we saw in Oklahoma City in 1995, when government black ops, secret murder squads, went in and destroyed that building, they can get away with almost anything now here in this nation.
And being conscious of this information and being willing to put it on the line, to put on the armor, and to ride out against the enemy, because there's nothing like smashing, pus-filled bureaucrats' heads in.
We were just here at the 5th Annual Waco Remembrance.
A lot of people were here.
There were a few government agents there.
Soft-soaking and selling their government line.
The same old lies, the same old information.
But more and more of the facts are coming out.
We just got done eating here on the Brazos River in Waco, and just a lot of good people, a lot of people that just want the truth to come out about what happened here in Waco, Texas in 1993 on April 19th.
It's also a shame that this day on April 19th was in 95, the Murrow Federal Building, where government black ops secret squads, according to General Parton and many others, went in and destroyed that building.
See, it would have been too damaging to our government to have had Waco in the psyche, so they had to offset it by another terrorist act.
I know this is stunning information, but I've documented it at least a thousand times, and many others have too, like Frederick Whitehurst, ex-head of the FBI Crime Lab, Ted Gunnarsson, ex-FBI chief of California.
And I don't want to repeat the same things over and over, but the answers will always be the same.
tyranny has an appetite for power and corruption.
Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
And those that have the appetite for power and the will that consumes them are capable of incredible despotic feats of despotism.
Let's not let this happen again, but I assure you it will happen in the future.
Americans are laying down far too much.
It's going to take a renaissance of information to bring forward the truth here in our age.
This is April 19th, 1998, five years after the murder of children.
We were just reading the Austin American Statesman.
It never talks about the children.
It talks about David Koresh being some sort of cult leader.
Of course, the media doesn't want to discuss Waco rules of engagement, and I was surprised that it was nominated for an Academy Award, but of course it didn't win.
We're coming out here to help keep the memory alive of the butchery, the murder.
Because Bill Clinton was insecure and wanted to flex his muscles, and the BATF wanted more funding, they wanted to raise the American people's consciousness about cults and out-of-control organizations of this nature.
So they surrounded the place, opened fire with helicopters, and then 51 days later, set it on fire, sent hit teams inside, and murdered the people.
Those that tried to escape were machine guns from outside.
Only a couple people got out alive, and that's because they came out the front.
Where they had cameras.
We're fixing to show you everything out there and get a lot of important interviews.
I'm here personally because I want to educate myself more about this, more about what happened here.
I'm not really as informed as a lot of people are about the attack that occurred here.
And I thought it was important to come here and see the site for myself and meet the people that were involved and get a more rounded education about the subject than what I think what we typically get through the mainstream media sources.
One of the things that we do at the conference is we try and expose corrupt government and educate people about what's really going on in the world.
I think because of the Soundbite nature of mainstream media, individuals don't get the type of education that they should to make informed choices, and we try and get them more pertinent information so they can make better informed choices.
unidentified
Okay, do you think that what happened here wasn't?
I couldn't make, I didn't really formulate an opinion here, and what happened was a libertarian friend of mine made the point that regardless If there were laws being broken here, if there were illegal weapons being stored here, that sort of thing, how can you justify killing all those women and children?
And you can't.
And regardless of what might have occurred here before the ATF and the FBI arrived, you can't justify killing women and children like that.
Those babies weren't shooting anybody.
And there were babies that died here.
And there were unborn babies that died here.
And that, to me, was a very valid point.
And that's why I think it's important that this type of information get out, that people start asking those same questions.
Hey, it doesn't matter if they were in there, you know, running a slave operation.
How can you justify killing babies and unborn babies?
We're here at what used to be the Mount Carmel, or I guess it still is Mount Carmel, but where the facilities used to be.
Here in Waco and we're standing here with Catherine Madison who's going to give us a tour of the site.
This is all new to me.
I've never been here before, never studied the site in any detail and I'm looking forward to Miss Catherine showing us around.
Hey, Miss Madison, I really appreciate you taking the time out to show us around because this is my first time here and I really don't know very much about what happened out here and this is more of an educational trip for me.
Well, the first film certainly raised all the right questions.
It didn't always have all of the answers, so I've spent some additional time and effort in trying to get better answers to the questions.
Who shot first on February 28th?
Was there really gunfire from the helicopters?
Did the FBI shoot at the Branch Davidians on April 19th in spite of their protestations?
Who were the people at the back of the building shooting at the Branch Davidians on April 19th?
What was involved with the explosion on the top of the bunker during the course of the fire?
How was the evidence handled or mishandled in the following investigation?
Questions like that.
So we get to...
Deal with those issues, and hopefully when we've dealt with them, we're in the process of making that film, and I'm finding very little cooperation from people who were involved.
People like Bob Ricks, or Jeff Jamar, or Dick Wright.
Okay, so he was the public spokesperson for the FBI. Right.
unidentified
And basically...
Trying to get those people to cooperate now has been like pulling teeth.
They're not interested.
Well, I can appreciate why they might not be, but the fact of the matter is these are the same fellows that are out bad-mouthing my film, and I think it's only appropriate first that they see the film before they bad-mouth it.
And then once they've had that opportunity that they also spend some time answering the questions raised in the film as opposed to just being critical in sort of a general haphazard way.
Mr. McNulty, I have seen your documentary when it premiered in Austin, Texas to a packed house at the Dobie at UT. And I was ashamed that our newspaper didn't do a front cover story.
They did it in the movie section and they said it showed troubling information, showed...
Federal agents firing from their sniper points and actually up right next to the church or what the media would call the compound.
I know some new documentation is coming out that's even worse than just the feds firing at women and children as they tried to exit the burning building through the cafeteria area.
Now, is it true that some documentation is coming out, if you want to go ahead and release this, I've heard it from others, that they actually sent in hit squads?
Just a couple more questions if you have the time.
You say that you've run into a brick wall now that your documentary, Waco Rules of Engagement, has gotten so much attention.
Because of the methodical nature and how well organized the information is, do you think that your next film will be given more attention than this one, or do you think that the propaganda machine and the mainstream media will continue to attack it despite the fact that most of these people haven't even seen the documentary?
unidentified
Well, it remains to be seen.
I think the interesting point about people attacking the film now is it's been out for a year, it's completed a theatrical run, it's been released in home video, and they're just getting around to paying attention to it.
When I say they, I mean people like Bob Riggs.
Buck Revell and these others that were former FBI agents involved in Waco in 1993. I think they're sort of a dollar short and a day late.
The horse is out of the barn and it comes across as nothing more than sour grapes.
Well, that's exactly what they did when they held the media back and then in the press conference said, well, you're lucky that you're that far.
But we don't want you seeing what we're doing.
But we're not going to go in there and do any kind of assault.
unidentified
That was Jeff Jamar.
I think what went on here and the fact that it wasn't documented by the media the way it should have been probably has something to do with why you have a TV show and a radio show.
You're not exactly mainline.
But on the other hand, the birth of that type of communications.
It's a good thing, because it gives the mainline media something to think about next time they want to kowtow to the people of the Justice Department for fear of losing news sources.
So perhaps it's a good thing, and perhaps there is good that's come out of the situation at Wake Up.
How can the media continually lie about this and not come full force out with indictments against certain people when this documentary does show federal agents?
In your opinion, who was it firing the automatic weapons?
unidentified
Who is firing the automatic weapons at the back of the building on April 19th will be revealed in the new film.
In terms of, do I have any idea why the media isn't doing their job?
I don't know.
You have to go ask them.
That's what you ought to be doing right now, is asking these guys why they haven't done their job relative to that.
So you have seen the inventor, the man that holds three of the patents, three of the four patents on flare technology, telling you that those are sniper points firing automatic weapons.
What do you think about that?
unidentified
I thought it was fascinating.
I thought it was a different perspective than I had heard before.
I don't know that I will base any definite opinion on it, but I thought it was interesting.
I thought it was a different perspective and it taught me something I didn't know before.
Are you aware that our Secretary of Defense, William Cohen, just created ten regional teams to work with local law enforcement?
That is absolutely unconstitutional, and they're doing anti-terrorism training all around the country.
Are you aware that General Benton Parton, ex-head of Air Force Weapons Development, says that Oklahoma City was done with pinpoint strikes inside the building?
They're getting ready to take a moment out here to ring the replica of the Liberty Bell and call off the names of the individuals who were murdered here at the church.
We have behind us Clive Doyle, and there's the replica of the Liberty Bell, which, by the way, I've been meaning to ask some questions.
If it's a full-scale replica or...
If it's a partial scale, I'd like to get a chance to speak to the individual who brought it and who's in charge of taking care of it.
But they're getting ready to make those announcements right now.
unidentified
February 28, 1993. We all know what happened that morning.
There were lives taken.
We're going to read all the names of everyone who lost their life here at Mount Carmel on February the 28th, as well as April the 19th.
I'd like to begin with the names of those Branch Davidians that were killed here on February the 28th.
Winston Blake, England.
Peter Gent, Australia.
Peter Hipsman, United States.
Perry Dale Jones, United States.
Michael Schroeder, United States.
Jadine Wendell, United States.
Also on that date, four BATF agents lost their lives.
Conway Leblew, Todd McKeon, Robert Williams, and Stephen Willis.
On April the 19th, fire took the lives of the following: Chanel Andrade, United States.
Jennifer Andrade, United States.
Catherine Andrade, United States.
Ulrich Rick George Bennett, England.
Susan Benta, England.
Mary Jean Borst, United States.
Pablo Cohen, Israel.
Abadawalo Dabo Davies, Nigeria and England.
Sherry Elena Doyle, United States.
Beverly Elliott, England.
Doris Fagan, Jamaica, England.
Yvette Fagan, Jamaica, England.
Lisa Marie Ferris, United States.
Raymond Friesen.
Sandra Herial, England.
Diana Henry, England.
Paulina Henry, England.
Philip Henry, England.
Stephen Henry, England.
Zilla Henry, Jamaica, England.
Novelette Sinclair Hipsman, Canada.
Floyd Houtman, United States.
Sherry Jewell, United States.
Cyrus Howell Koresh, United States.
David Koresh, United States.
Rachel Olivia Susanna Jones Howell Koresh, United States.
Star Hollow Koresh United States Chica Jones Koresh, United States Little One Jones Koresh, United States Jell Jones Thibodeau, United States.
Serenity C. Jones Koresh, United States.
David Michael Jones, United States.
Jeffrey Little, United States.
Nicole Elizabeth Gent Little, Australia.
Dayland Lord Gent, Australia.
Paige Gent, United States.
Unnamed aborted fetus, Gent, that died during the siege, United States.
Livingston Malcolm, Jamaica, England.
Annette Marie Martin, United States.
Douglas Wayne Martin, United States Lisa Marie Martin, United States Sheila Renee Martin, United States Wayne Martin, United States.
Diana Martin, England.
Abigail Martinez, United States.
Audrey Martinez, United States.
Crystal Berrios, United States.
Isaiah Taco Berrios, United States.
Joseph Samuel Martinez, United States.
Juliet Santoyo, United States.
John Mark McBean, Jamaica, England.
Allison Bernadette Monvalley, England.
Melissa Morrison, England.
Melissa Morrison, England.
Rosemary Morrison, England.
Sonia Murray, England.
Teresa Nobrega, England.
James Jimmy Lloyd Riddle, United States.
Rebecca Sapia, New Zealand.
Judith Schneider, United States.
Mina Schneider, United States.
Stephen Schneider, United States.
Clifford Sellers, England.
Flora Sita Sanobi, Philippines.
Scott Kojiro Sanobi, United States.
Aisha Garfus Summers, Australia.
Startle Summers, United States.
Unnamed Abortus Spetus Summers, United States.
Gregory Ellen Summers, United States.
Hollywood Sylvia, United States.
Lorraine Sylvia, England, United States.
Rachel Sylvia, United States.
Margarita Vallega, China, United States.
Neil Vallega, New Zealand, United States.
Mark Wendell, United States.
There are a couple of survivors who died since 1993.
We have stones here for them and the flowers.
And they will be placed over here later.
Serving 40 Years00:03:56
unidentified
James Lauder, United States.
He passed away November the 25th, 1996. Jamie Martin, United States.
Jamie passed away February the 11th of this year.
We have also a number of survivors that are still in prison, and I'd like to tell you a little bit about each one of them.
Renus Abram, born February 26, 1964. He's a British businessman and musician of Greek heritage.
He joined the Davidians in 1991. He escaped the fire.
He's serving 40 years since.
If you'd like to write to him, his name and number and where he's located is available here, and you can get a copy of this.
He's currently in Jessup, Georgia.
Brad Branch, born January 31st, 1959.
He's a Navy veteran and technician from Texas, a frequent visitor to Mount Carmel who came out during the siege.
He's serving a 40-year sentence.
He's currently in Beaumont, Texas.
Jamie Castillo, born June the 4th, 1968. He's a California drummer, a guitarist who joined the Davidians in 1988 and escaped the fire.
He's serving a 40-year sentence.
He's currently in Beaumont, Texas.
Graham Craddock, born November the 29th, 1961.
He's an engineer from Australia who had been at Mount Carmel for a year and escaped the He's serving a 20-year sentence.
He's in Oakdale, Louisiana.
Paul Fata, born February 28, 1958. He's a businessman from Hawaii who joined the Davidians in the late 80s.
He was outside of Mount Carmel on February 28, 1993. He's serving a 15-year sentence.
He's in Safford, Arizona.
Kevin Whitecliffe, born June the 4th, 1968. He's from Hawaii.
He's the father of two who had been at Mount Carmel for a year, came out during the siege.
He's serving a 40-year sentence.
He's currently in Beaumont, Texas.
And finally, Livingston Fagan, born May 15th, 1959 in Jamaica.
He's a social worker and has a master in theology.
He spent most of his life in Britain.
He's the father of two who lost his wife and mother in the fire.
He exited during the siege.
He's serving a 40-year sentence in Oklahoma City.
He had been at Leavenworth, Kansas, where he was treated so inhumanely that there's a grand jury impaneled now to look at what some of the guards had been doing there.
And that's why he is now in Oklahoma City during that investigation for fear that his life could be in danger if he was left there at Leavenworth.
And so hopefully some of that may be straightened out.
Livingston Fagan has had a very, very tough, tough five years, as they all have.
But Livingston won't play their games.
Has been put outside nude and hosed down in the winter and then put in a cold cell with nothing on because he just refuses to play any of their games.
Those are the men that are in prison, and if you'd like to write them, we have the addresses available to where they all are, and I'm sure that they'd love to hear from you.
Mcmahon's Memorial00:05:14
unidentified
Can we bow our heads just for a minute or so for those that lost their lives here five years ago?
Thank you.
I'd like to personally, on behalf of all the Branch Davidians that are here, survivors, I'd like to thank you for coming today and spending your time and letting all of the survivors know exactly how you feel.
They appreciate your being here.
And feel free to come in and look through the museum.
I saw helicopters and various aircraft on a daily basis.
And again, that's indicative of the multiple lenses that are on surveillance equipment that they mount to the nose of various aircraft from F-4s, different helicopters.
There's standard surveillance cameras, also infrared.
FLIR, they call it forward-looking infrared radar, and there's just no doubt in my mind the glint off of the reflection, which I hope you caught on the video, is just, well, there's no mistaking it.
That's exactly where they put that surveillance equipment.
He was a radio host in Dallas, Texas, who stood up.
He's been in the documentary Day 51. He was one of the first people to speak out.
Sir, how did you recognize immediately that army tanks and people in black ski masks surrounding a church was dangerous?
unidentified
Sunday morning, when it first got on television, I saw what was taking place, and I became irate about it.
I mean, when you see people in black surrounding a home and just firing into the walls and into the windows, and there are government rules and regulations that state you have to have a target before you fire, they ran out of ammunition firing through walls.
How come you can tell the difference between that, I can tell the difference between that, but the media said they fired first, but you can see the door, the front door was riddled with bullet holes?
unidentified
No, you can't see the front door because mysteriously the front door disappeared.
Up there telling us that the Trilateral Commission, the CFR, are running the country or actually front groups.
We have him telling us that they're militarizing the police.
They're coming under federal control.
I mean, what is it going to take for the dozen media cameras that were out here from stations all across the country to report on these facts?
unidentified
They won't.
They won't.
They're government-controlled.
Take into consideration that every network...
That has a number of television stations throughout the country as well as radio stations.
Strange Tapes Reveal Militarization00:15:44
unidentified
They are controlled by people that do belong to the CFR and do belong to the Trilateral Commission.
And those people aren't going to allow their reporters to report the truth on what's going on.
In 1951, a gentleman that was the...
Publisher of the New York Times was asked to speak at a luncheon, and he said, if you think we are speaking what's telling what's true, you're absolutely wrong.
This is a joke.
You and I are both nothing more than prostitutes.
We're prostituting ourselves for a business that only wants us to report what they want to hear.
If we report what we know and we want to do, we know we'll be out on the street tomorrow.
Just like they're taking away our freedoms, just little tiny pieces at a time, and they use something like the Oklahoma bombing or some other catastrophe to say, see?
See what happens?
We don't need guns.
Look at all these people that were killed, these two little boys that killed those four children and their teacher.
I really appreciate you having me out here today, and I want to...
And just everybody standing up for what happened to the Branch Davidians.
I think, though, this is going to be a catalyst to wake up the nation.
unidentified
I pray to God it will.
I pray to God it will.
We read all these names out there today, and that's real hard for me to do.
I've done that before, and every time I do it, it just hurts badly.
And if you think about the lives that were lost here and how they were lost, and put the blame squarely where it belongs, and it certainly doesn't belong on the Branch Davidians, because they were just living here peacefully.
I mean, everything that the media said turned out to be lies.
Speed labs, illegal guns, molesting children.
He said he was Jesus.
If all that was true, you don't fire into a home thousands and thousands of rounds from semi and fully automatic weapons, from helicopters out front into a place filled with children.
And then you don't come in and set the place on fire.
We have documentaries with the FBI's own footage, their own flare tapes as they fire at men, women, and children as they try to leave a burning building.
That's why they stopped the fire trucks while they hurriedly bulldozered the bodies back into the flames.
In Waco Rules of Engagement, there's interviews with the Tarrant County Coroner's Office, and they sit there and tell you that one body wouldn't hardly be burnt, and the next body with bullet holes would be burnt to a char from gasoline.
unidentified
That's absolutely right, and that's why.
I mean, they had to do this.
If they hadn't done this, everyone in the country would have seen what the government really was.
They demonized these people for 51 days with a 30-minute press briefing every day, and that press briefing was no more than lie after lie after lie.
They were trying to instigate.
David Koresh to do something, he wouldn't do it.
They were lying about him to the American public, and the sad thing is that the American public, the majority of the American public, still believes that the government was right.
My sister is one of them.
I can sit and show her movies, I can sit and talk with her, and I might as well be talking to a brick wall.
We're here with Bonnie Haldeman, David Koresh's mother.
And there's quite a crowd out here today to, I guess, lend support and try to keep the memories alive of people that did die just trying to live their lives.
How do you feel five years after the tragedy?
unidentified
Well, I feel pretty much like I did the same, you know, the day it happened.
The great loss and injustice of what was done here to American people in their home, their church, and their family, you know.
The hurt's still there, and we're here to remember them.
Bonnie Haldeman, she's the mother of David Koresh.
Does it still feel as bad as it did five years ago?
unidentified
Sometimes it does, you know.
It's gotten a little easier in some aspects, but being out here sometimes and remembering sort of in your mind, you see everything that happened, especially looking at the pictures inside.
You did a good job ringing the bell for the people that died here.
You know, I've seen you here today and talked to you some.
You seem like a really gentle, nice woman, and that makes me think even more so that all the stories we heard in the controlled media were lies about your son.
unidentified
They were lies.
They were lies.
Because he was a kind, gentle person, too.
Loved people, and his main goal in life was to help save people's souls, and he didn't like anybody to be unkind to anybody else.
The sheriff of this county said that he was a good guy and wasn't bothering anybody and that this was a good community out here.
unidentified
He had come out here many times, you know, just in and talked to David, and Sheriff Harwell told me last year, he said, I'm sure, I'm sorry, Bonnie, what happened, if anything I can do for you.
Attorney generals, sheriffs here in Waco, the sheriff here in Waco, it just goes on and on.
FBI crime lab chiefs?
What more do you need?
The documentation is there.
What would you say to the public in Austin, Texas, if there's just a few statements that you want to make to them about how they can avert this type of tragedy happening in the future?
unidentified
How can they avert it?
Well, we need to stand up for what we know is right and to demand that investigations be done on what happened here and see if it doesn't happen again.
And by the way, eight miles down the road, they owned a small car shop.
They ran over that and tore that to pieces, even though no one was there.
Now let's look at the militarization.
There they are where the children were huddled.
And now new evidence shows that they sent in a special ops team with special breathing apparatus to kill everyone inside there and they placed a mine on top of the building.
Here you can see them looking down through the hole.
Here's more FBI provocateur agents there destroying evidence.
And here you have the equivalent of MJTF FBI squads.
These are who are training with your local law enforcement in their German style 1993...
Kevlar helmets.
Here you have some of the other FBI teams that stole evidence from the Tarrant County Coroner's Examiner's Office, and that's in Waco Rules of Engagement, well documented.
Here you have some more of the tough guy behavior.
We can't show you the photographs of them exposing their genitalia to the children during the 30th day of the siege.
They did quite a bit of that, but here's a real tough guy.
He can fire into a building filled with men, women, and children while he wears body armor.
My, is he tough.
And, of course, Here is some more BATF. You know, they shot someone who was driving into the house that day as they came down the road, the first day that the conflagration of terror began.
And here you have another tough guy with an automatic weapon, a HK, a deadly German fully automatic weapon.
That is an ATF, a U.S. government terrorist.
And, of course, here you have the Bradley fighting vehicle, a medium tank, and they also had Abrams, the premier front-line battle tank here for this group of citizens who had invited the BATF no less than twice to come out and inspect their firearms, and the government never found any illegal weapons.
They got a false search warrant.
They lied.
They violated posse commentatus.
It's totally unconstitutional.
This is a police state.
Let's go ahead and look at what was and what is no more.
Get a shot at Waco Rules of Engagement.
You want to talk about a documentary that has the FBI's own flare footage as a machine gun, innocent men, women, and children as they tried to leave the church, the wooden structure known as a compound of the media, and to the purveyors of corruption.
A lot is going on, and there's a new documentary supposedly coming out called Bullets Over Waco, The Survivor's Story.
Let's go ahead and go over here now and look at some more of the documents.
This was the first day of the standoff.
This is where federal police came up, secret police came up and began firing into the front of the door when David Koresh opened it.
They killed several people when they opened fire and injured David Koresh as he held his hands up.
They then called 911 repeatedly.
This is all on the 911 tapes.
And so we're being fired on.
Helicopters surrounded the area and were firing into the structure through the roof.
Here you have...
The structure before it was destroyed.
Here you have the ATF firing as fast as they can.
Down here.
Firing into the structure with absolute wanton abandonness.
And then you have people who are in full body armor firing at men, women, and children who had committed no crime.
And then you have them sitting here crying sorrowfully over a BATF agent that was shot.
We're sorry that that happened, but when you wear a black ski mask...
And you come into somebody's home, well, I'll say what G. Gordon Liddy said, aim for the head.
Well, here you have what was going on at night, the lights, the sirens, Nancy Sinatra, the sound of squealing, dying rabbits.
And then they started pumping in the CS gas, a band form.
of tear gas because when it ignites it forms cyanide gas.
Here you have the structure with all the thousands of tank treads around it.
Here you have day 22, some of the people that came out were promptly sent to jail and labeled as terrorists.
The BATF pulled up in cattle cars, fully exposed.
If the Davidians were waiting to ambush them, like a lot of mainstream media, made-for-TV television propaganda shows, propagandize the people, right here you have the structure.
And the BATF came up, knocked on the door, and Koresh raised his hands and said, stop, let's talk about this.
We have women and children.
They opened fire, this is on the FBI's own tapes, into the front of the structure.
This is even the edited tapes.
And the door that's disappeared, lawyers and people that went inside said the bullets were going in from the outside.
You can tell this for novices out there.
When a bullet hits a metal door, it makes a small hole going in and a large hole going out.
So this, again, government-sponsored terrorism in your country.
You have people here looking at what's happened, looking at the final assault.
You can see internal photos of a machine gun sniper mount, a machine gun and a sniper, crouching here.
I don't know if the video camera can pick this up.
Crouching from their sniper position.
And as the people tried to exit the back, they fired on them.
And again, Waco Rules of Engagement shows flare footage of that happening.
You can see it right here.
People that were killed by federal forces.
Here you have the people that were killed by special military forces, black ops squads, that is, secret military squads that accompanied the feds.
We're told also that some British special forces teams were inserted to kill all the witnesses because they couldn't have witnesses of what happened.
And there, of course, you have the evidence before it was destroyed.
The FBI and the BETF always bulldoze from Oklahoma City, the World Trade Center bombing, after they've done their handiwork.
This is Clive Doyle's daughter.
Did not deserve to be burned up in the building and shot as they tried to exit.
We're here with Clive Doyle, one of the surviving Branch Davidians.
He came down a couple months ago.
We really appreciate you coming down to share the information, the knowledge of your run-in with the New World Order and what you'd call Antichrist forces here in Waco, Texas.
I appreciate you having everybody out here.
What do you think about An attorney general coming out here and speaking about what's happening in the police state.
unidentified
Well, Ramsey Clark has been a great friend ever since he got onto our civil case, and he has spoken just about every year for the last three years.
The fact that an attorney general has the gumption to get up and talk the way he did, I think is a credit to his personality and his principles.
I'd kind of like to see the day when Janet Reno would have enough gumption to come down here and say the same kind of things, but that may be down the road.
But it's like you and others said on the phone, and David Koresh said on the phone, all he was was a message boy.
Really, he didn't have any authority, correct?
unidentified
That's true.
They had to acknowledge that somebody else was calling the shots, either from Washington or their commanders or whatever, and of course the mod squad out here in the tanks, they were doing all the damage anyway.
These people should be ashamed of what they're doing.
Let me just ask you a question that's kind of, it's not off the subject, but what do you think about us buying all these goods from China made by political dissidents, 30 million at any one time, with a 25% attrition rate that's millions dead a year in these camps and the Chinese moving into Long Beach?
Isn't this going to come back on all Americans?
If we allow this to continue?
unidentified
Well, as far as buying goods that are made by cheap labor, whether it's from China or anywhere else, I think we've forced a lot of the businesses to go overseas for cheap labor because of the slave labor we have in our prison system.
You know, you get people working for 10 cents an hour, how can the average businessman out there compete when he's at least got to pay the minimum wage?
Sir, Clive Doyle, I really want to thank you for standing up strong against this.
And more and more documentation is coming out like Waco Rules of Engagement.
Is that a hard film for you to watch?
unidentified
Somewhat.
It's hard enough to talk about it, let alone watch it over and over.
But even myself, I've got footage from various CNN and C-SPAN and all those different clips.
And I've been going through some of the stuff I've had just to try to find some things that I remember seeing and I want to use, you know, and just to sit there and live through it over and over again.
There have been some documentaries, front documentaries by the establishment here in America, like PBS, that supposedly is giving us good information, where they continually refer to this as a cult and a compound.
Did y'all?
Did you refer to yourself as a cult or a compound, or was it a church?
unidentified
No, we never called ourselves a cult.
It was a church.
The place was called Mount Carmel Center, not Mount Carmel Compound.
Well, that's some information that's now coming out in this next documentary that's being put out by the same people that put out Waco Rules of Engagement.
And I've talked to some of the lawyers, Mr. Brennan and others, that it's pretty much documented.
I know you were trying to get out for your life and get other people to safety.
We're being told now that some special forces teams, perhaps from Britain, were sent in with breathing apparatus.
unidentified
I'm not aware of that, but then we were isolated.
Those of us that were in the chapel were pretty much cut off from people down the other end because of all the damage they'd done to the building.
You and others have talked about how the water tanks had holes in the top, and the only way the water tanks could have holes in the top was from the helicopters.
Marjorie Thomas, who's from England, who was badly burned.
She said that her testimony, which she did a video deposition for the trial, but I don't think it ever played in its entirety.
But in that deposition, she said that some of the girls were looking out the window on the north end in the tower, and they were acting sort of agitated.
She walked over to look and see what they were looking at, and she looked out the window, and she jerked her head back because this helicopter was so close to the glass.
It scared her.
I mean, it was so close.
And as she jerked her head back, bullets came through and smashed the glass just where she'd been looking at it.
Ringing the bell that so many people were from England.
Now, were those people still British citizens?
Now, has the government of Britain gotten involved in the investigation in any way?
Or have they expressed no interest?
unidentified
We've tried to stir up response from the British government by writing to people and asking them to go direct and ask questions and put it to them how come they didn't do anything about their own citizens.
And they got a pretty nasty attitude in England, apparently.
They just wiped them all off and said, well, they were all from elsewhere, you know, from Jamaica or Nigeria or whatever, and just wrote them off.
Well, Mr. Brennan, the lawyer for some of the murdered children, that's why he was saying that it now looks like with some documents they've uncovered.
He said this down at the last conference that y'all came down to Austin, that that's why they use some British intelligence, because it's well known in the intelligence community, if you're going to do an operation involving people from another country that we're allied with, you'll allow that country to do your work for you.
That's what I was struck by, and I can't imagine that if British citizens were in South Africa or some of these other outposts...
In the world that if as many people, as many British citizens were killed, theirs were killed here, I can't imagine that they would sit on their hands and seemingly do nothing.
unidentified
You'd almost think they'd have a war over it, wouldn't you?
Perhaps the U.S.-Britain power axis in banking is just really one beast.
unidentified
It's just like when I called British Embassy.
And British consuls and stuff here in this country in regards to the situation with Livingston being beaten up by 300-pound guards and fire hoses put on him.
We're here at the site where the people were killed, here at Mount Carmel Church.
And for every person that was murdered here, they planted a crepe myrtle and some flowers for the murdered people.
This is a caring community out here.
They fixed cars, they were postmen, and yes, they sold firearms to law-abiding citizens.
And for doing this, they were murdered in cold blood for a publicity stunt for Bill Clinton.
And then the government, and again, from ex-FBI chiefs to General Parton, ex-Sative Air Force Weapons Development, to Ted Gunderson, FBI chief, Oklahoma City was done by black ops, secret government squads.
On April 19th in 1995, Two years later, because Clinton's approval rating was plunging, and they needed to overshadow this terrible memory with the memory of the government dying.
So just be aware of that.
Just like Hitler burnt the Reichstag in 1933, they blew up Oklahoma City to make sure that no one ever remembers this.
But it's backfired on them.
People know what's happened in both cases.
Government terrorism.
There is Serenity C. Jones, April 19, 1993, age 4, murdered by...
MJTF, military police forces, under Clinton's command.
Fixing to go show you a real live agent provocateur.
What's his name, Mike?
Fixing to go show you a real live agent provocateur, and the media is clustered around him.
They don't want to talk to ex-attorney generals.
No, no, no.
They want to talk to agent provocateurs.
One more thing.
If all I say...
It's a lie.
Why isn't the government coming in prison to me?
Because they don't want an investigation.
They don't want me to bring out in some type of trial all the information.
Our government is blowing up buildings and murdering churches.
We're here with Jack DuVault and he wrote Waco Whitewash.
Sir, you've been talking about this ever since it happened and Do you feel that people know more and more now in America exactly what really happened here, or do you think that there's a lot of work still to be done?
unidentified
There's a tremendous amount of work to be done.
Most people are slowly forgetting what has happened here, and the word is not getting out.
There are all kinds of...
Materials available on the internet, my book for example.
In my book, I followed the trial very closely, and in that book I showed About eight examples of indictable offenses by federal officers and agents, and nothing has ever been done about it.
And talk about the unprofessional behavior, mooning and showing their genitalia to the women and children, playing the sounds of dying rabbits, firing in from the first day and on the last day with helicopters and sniper-mounted positions.
unidentified
And lying about it continuously, lying and lying and lying.
We just had a thumb scanning protest where I was arrested, the biometrics, and yes, I believe they're going to create a crash and make you thumb scan or retina scan to buy and sell.
unidentified
Well, I believe that the entire culture is going to have a severe culture shock because I think that we're going into an economic...
Spiritual change.
I think that everything is going to change because people who have thought that they were building their security all these years...
I had had armbands made that said, Unarmed Patriot, so that when we got shot, the press was out there, if we got shot, we would at least be identified.
We didn't even have the courage, though, to step into the face of those AK armed men that were guarding every road, every approach.
We came around to the backside over here.
We tried to come across the field there, and they had helicopters circling us all the time.
We're standing on the spot, just feet away from the front door where the cattle trailers...
With people girded in black pulled up and opened fire on men, women, and children.
And above us were circling black and dark green military helicopters with infrared scopes firing incessantly on the people.
And again, this has all been documented with FBI footage that was snuck out by defense attorneys.
This is incredible.
The people were murdered right here on the spot when men, women, and children burnt inside this structure.
And this was all, again, part of state-sponsored terrorism to push the envelope, to test and to see what they could get away with.
Now I'm standing on the spot where David Koresh opened the door, raised his hands and said, as they charged him, with a dynamic entry, he said, hey, let's talk.
We have women and children here.
They opened fire, he was injured, and some of his associates were killed.
They then called 911. As the fire continued, more people were killed.
Thugs, impotent weaklings, continued to fire into this structure.
And no excuses, no amount of government propaganda can cover up the shameful events that happened here at Mount Carmel.
You know, there's a common thread in all of this, from Oklahoma City to the World Trade Center bombing to, of course, Waco.
They always destroy the evidence and don't let locals in to document anything.
What do they have to hide?
If this was some murderous cult, as the TV shows told us, then what did they have to hide?
Why do they always destroy the remains?
This building was burnt to the ground, but they still bulldozed the entire foundation and pushed it up in a heap, in a monument to the wreckage of the police state.
Welcome to the New World Order.
Right up there on the podium, here at the five-year remembrance of the slaughter here, is Ramsey Clark, ex-Attorney General of the United States of America.
And he is there telling you that we are under federal control.
The military is training with local law enforcement.
This is absolute police state.
Nazi Germany is right upon us.
But this time it's going to be not racial, but environmental and socialist.
It's the real deal, ladies and gentlemen, and you can't deny it.
unidentified
They're suffering and sharing it, and remember the suffering of the Palestinian people, and prevent it.
We have to love all the people, and prevent violence, and demilitarize the planet.
And in the ancient Hebrew words of Deuteronomy, above all, our command is to set it, to set it, tiered off.
Justice, justice, thou shalt pursue.
God bless you, everyone.
I have one more speaker that I'd like to introduce.
And he didn't even know he was going to talk here today.
But it's the talk show host that put together the busload of people that came up from Austin, Texas.
Well, it's hard to speak after Ramsey Clark, attorney general during the Carter administration Did you hear what he was just telling you?
There is a massive consolidation.
Of local police departments under federal control, the Multi-Jurisdictional Task Force and the JTF-6, which is based at Fort Bliss, Texas.
They wear black ski masks.
They train in military tactics.
And they are the big gun and the long arm of the IRS and the criminal system that is running this nation.
Make no mistake, the murders of these people and these children was about one thing and one thing only.
It was about terrorism against the American people.
It was about testing and pushing the limits to see if the government could surround a group, if they could kill those people and burn it to the ground.
Waco Rules of Engagement shows the automatic weapons fire as men and women tried to exit the back of the building.
That's where most of the bodies were found, right in the edge.
Hit squads, military black ops, the same ones that destroyed Oklahoma City, just like Hitler burnt the Reichstag in 1933. I mean, where is our country when Ex-Attorney Generals of the United States of America are here telling you that Reno and the rest of them and the Republicans and the Democrats are all the same people.
I mean, it just makes my heart swell with pride that we do have people like Ramsey Clark and others and this whole crowd out here that is standing in defiance of tyranny.
And I'll take a line from that movie Braveheart.
What would you give dying in your bed all these years from now to have just once stood up in defiance of tyranny to put on the armor and to ride out on the field against the enemy?
And violence is not the way to go.
They are the ones that use violence.
They are the ones that are dangerous.
Understand that.
We've got to use information like Waco.
Rules of Engagement.
I mean, that documentary is so powerful because it doesn't exaggerate.
It doesn't lie.
For three hours, it lays out the information for you to see.
And where is the mainstream media editing this information out?
You have federal agents killing men, women, and children.
And now we find out, and it's going to come out in the next documentary.
And think about this.
That they sent in death squads with breathing apparatus to kill those people inside because they couldn't have any witnesses of what really happened on the first day of the 51-day standoff.
So we're dealing with murder, we're dealing with terrorism against the American people, and this is nothing new in the history of the world.
Authoritarian regimes always seek to control the modes of finance, the printing of money, transportation.
Food production, you name it, it's all coming under federal control under the guise of environmentalism, which is nothing but a cult now.
It's very, very serious.
Somebody has got to stand up.
More people have got to stand up.
FEMA, under Senate Resolution 21, is building hundreds of concentration camps on military bases.
Set up for families.
Areas for men.
Areas for women.
Areas for women with children.
And areas for men who have families on the other side of the camp.
And by the way, they have triple the guard towers.
And I have played this many times on my television show.
It's just out of control.
I have congressmen on tape, Henry B. Gonzalez and others, admitting this.
Look at the world.
And then I'm going to get off here because others have a lot more to say than me.
Hitler killed 40 million.
The Communists in Russia killed about 100 million.
The Communist Chinese, we're not sure, 100, 200 million.
And it's still going on.
We're buying slave goods from these people.
They're moving into Long Beach Naval Base.
They're moving into the high desert of California at Victorville and Atalanto and building 20 mini-malls to bring in slave goods directly.
This is a de-industrialization of our plan.
And it is just sick what's happening to our country.
And people have got to stand up.
Against it if freedom is going to survive.
And the plans are there.
Make no mistake, but don't be fearful.
People that lay down.
I mean, ask yourself, how did the Germans allow Hitler to come to power?
And the mainstream media is going around last week in Austin.
A mainstream media station went out and had reporters on the street asking, where will terrorists strike next?
They're introducing this into the psychology.
They're creating a new cosmology of fear and preparing people for terrorism.
And I just want to warn you one more time.
State-sponsored terrorism is the number one brand worldwide.
Oklahoma City was terrorism.
What happened right here where I'm standing in Waco?
Back in 1993, on April 19th, with state-sponsored terrorism, it was a test to see if you'd lay down.
And I'm telling you something, they're taken back now because their propaganda and their lies worked for a while, but you see that the polls are changing.
More and more people are waking up to what's happening.
So I want to challenge you to talk to ten people a week, get them to see Waco Rules of Engagement.
I have nothing to do with this documentary, but it's so incredibly powerful.
You have got to get this and get it into congressmen's hands, your friends' hands, judges in your local cities, because this can be a revelation to the people of America, to the people that just want to be pragmatic.
To the people that are just relativists and don't care as long as charity doesn't come knocking on their door.
And I'll just paraphrase this.
We've all heard the famous quotes and statements.
When they came for the Jews, they didn't come for me, so I left it alone.
When they came for the Catholics, when they came for all these different groups, I stayed there.
And finally, when they came for me, there was nobody left to stand up for me.
This is the real deal.
This is human history.
Foggy conspiracy theory.
I have to tell you, three years ago, four years ago, I thought what happened at Waco was wrong.
But I thought, I mean, I believed a little bit of the propaganda.
I thought, well, you know, this and that.
And the more I studied this, the more I found out it's worse than even what Waco Rules of Engagement or Day 51 Had to offer and that's why I'm glad that they're coming out with a new documentary because this is what it's going to take.
It's going to take information to the public.
Information is power.
So stop reacting and start acting and stand up against this police state or we're going into 100% taxation, 100% tyranny.
And just because it's packaged sweetly and has a nice flashy exterior, the interior is barbed wire and pure slavery.
He was attorney general during LBJ's administration, and he said some very stunning information that a lot of us in the freedom movement know about, but a lot of people out there in the mainstream because of the press don't know about.
Sir, would you like to make some comments on that?
unidentified
Well, our government has become the greatest purveyor of violence on Earth, as Dr. King said it was in 1967. But today it's gone beyond all reasonable bounds.
$265 billion in military expenditures, which is probably half of all the military expenditures in the world.
It exceeds the next biggest government by five-fold.
It exceeds the entire military expenditures of the National Security Council.
And it includes things like the Trident II nuclear submarine, which could wipe out millions and millions of people with a single launch.
It trains people like the School for the Americas to go into Chiapas, Mexico, and kill Mayan Indians who were starving to death with our NAFTA thing that's driven their corn off the market because they can't compete with us and can't sell their surplus corn to make a little money to buy some water purifiers so their kids don't get sick and die from polluted.
Water.
This militarism, you know, we'd never had a standing army before the Civil War.
Now we've got this huge standing army with more than 200,000 troops permanently stationed overseas, the largest naval armada in the world since World War II and the Persian Gulf on a permanent basis.
And that's not the land of the free and the home of the brave.
We weren't cut out to do that.
Here at home, you see things like Waco, which show that we carry over our militarism right into our churches to assault church people.
My first question is, or my first statement about this is, is you're absolutely right.
I mean, we have military training, people in black ski masks, with the MJTF, Multi-Jurisdictional Task Forces, training directly with our local law enforcement in Austin, Texas, where I'm from, and I found out that this is a nationwide movement.
unidentified
Sure it is.
And the sad part is, you know, the cop is supposed to be our friend on the beat.
He's the one who gets the cat out of the tree and takes care of the lost kids and stops someone from burglarizing a home and stuff like that.
I've done interviews at protests and things, and the police walk up and say, stay behind the demarcation line.
And you'll hear them talking.
Watch the civilians.
They're using military terminology.
Is this dangerous?
unidentified
Of course it's dangerous.
The paramilitary concept of police is a police state, you know.
And our Constitution was created to prevent a police state.
Yet our police expenditures, our creation of the fear of crime and the belief that you can solve crime by more prisons, by the death penalty, and by beating people in the head is crazy.
It's just war with our own society, and you see it come to a head at a peaceful church outside of Waco, Texas, Mount Carmel.
And just to talk a little bit more about the police state, and I appreciate you doing this interview, Mr. Clark.
That is the dangerous part about it.
Eisenhower, Kennedy, many others warned us about the military-industrial complex, and now since we've dominated the whole planet, they are now still selling fear, but now they're selling fear of the American people.
They're making us the enemy.
unidentified
Well, I think that's right.
Our prison population in Texas is the worst of all in many ways, just as Texas is absolutely the worst on the death penalty.
Half the people executed in the United States last year were executed in Texas.
You've got the...
Literally, you've got the Pope pleading with us not to execute people.
You've got the United Nations Human Rights Commission pleading with us.
South Africa, who caused us, when apartheid was in power there, to abolish the death penalty, as we did when I was Attorney General.
We cut out the death penalty.
We haven't had a federal execution since 1963, but we could point to South Africa, where they were executing a person a day, all black.
And we didn't want to be like that, so we abolished it.
Now they've abolished the death penalty in South Africa.
The Constitution has abolished it.
The Parliament's abolished it.
The Supreme Court's abolished it.
And we're the Lord High Executioner.
We've got more than 3,000 people on death row.
What does that mean?
No free society tells people, do what we say or we'll kill you.
They're organizations through which they implement their power, and it's an international group that maintains power through the multinational corporations and the media and all the rest.
And as a result, the men, women, and children died.
Also, one of the tanks drove inside the structure, and this is even admitted to by the FBI, and there was an inside area, an area where they stored food and things that was concrete, and they thought that was the safest area because most of the structure was wood right over there.
They drove directly in and pumped CS gas, a banned form of chemical weapon.
Point-blank range into children's faces.
They don't make gas masks that fit two- and three- and four-year-old children, my friends.
This is incredible.
No matter what propaganda you want to believe, those babies did not deserve to be murdered by the black ski mask thugs.
That didn't come out in the trial.
You're some kind of provocateur.
In fact, you're one of those FBI agents, aren't you?
Hey, we're in the middle of one of our interviews right now.
We're told that the bunker was here where the children cowered, where they drove directly in with the tank and pumped in the CS gas in point blank range, and then they pushed all the rubble over there.
So the bunker was somewhere over in this area.
This is just more of Big Brother, and we just went over there to one of the FBI negotiators, who's now over here soft peddling things.
And he's not calling for indictments of Reno.
Herman Goering and Drag.
You know, all these slaves are going to get what they asked for.
The IRS bending people over all day and all night.
It's a real pleasure to stand up to Big Brother and all these slimy cronies.
Let's get out of here.
I want to get out of this place.
This place is depressing.
He sat right there and looked me in the eye and talked about, "I'm assessing you, that FBI assessor, that FBI con man that came out here, that negotiator." And he's sorry about what happened, but tries to put some of the blame on the Davidians.
I'm here to tell you right now what they did was out of control and wrong.
And if he's so good at assessing people, then he sure as hell assessed the Davidians wrong.
I blew up at that FBI negotiator because, you know, I forgot once I got in an argument with him and he played good cop, bad cop, Mr. Sweetie Pants.
I was sitting there listening for about three minutes while he was talking about the poor children and all this, but Koresh had explosives and live grenades and illegal weapons and 500,000 rounds of ammunition was above them and fell and crushed the children.
No, they had bullet holes in their heads and the footage shows, Waco rules of engagement, automatic weapons fire.
That's why I'm pissed.
Yeah, but you're saying that they had 500,000 rounds of ammunition.
What will be the level, the decibel level, of this slave state?
So, again, the reason I got mad at that guy, and I totally forgot during the argument because I was so angry, was I heard him over there talking about live grenades.
There were no live grenades found.
There were a few dummy grenades that you can buy as a paperweight on your desk.
You see them?
And yes, they did sell them.
You can go to an Army-Navy store and buy them.
unidentified
And all the live grenades that there were was ones that had the FBI.
He was pointing to a pile of rubble that was the bulldozed bunker and saying that was the bunker.
Here's where the poor children died.
You know, Koresh had all those guns and 500,000 rounds of, which is pure bull.
That's millions and millions of dollars of ammunition.
Yes, 500,000 rounds of ammunition above them.
They were sitting there saying that and live grenades.
That's just pure lies.
It was something that Clive Doyle, one of the Survali Branch Davidians, who was in all 51 days and barely got out alive through the front and crawled out on the ground with burns all over his body.
All the guns were at a gun show, or 90% of them, And think back to the Senate hearings with Arlen Specter.
Think about this.
Now, this is very important.
Those guns weren't burnt.
Those MAC-90s and weapons that they held up that were legal guns, semi-automatic versions, fully automatic versions, they were brown wood.
They weren't even burnt.
unidentified
They just went and got some guns and just said, it's all lies.
They showed, because all the holes in the door were all incoming rounds from outside into the building, and there's two white steel doors, and the one on the left is the only one that they'll show the public, and the one on the right with all the incoming bullet holes in it, as I'll show you in this picture right and the one on the right with all the incoming bullet Stop asking questions, right winger.
Let me find the picture here, Mike.
You can plainly see BATF agents kneeling unprotected, not behind anything, right in front of the front door, and you can see the incoming bullet holes in the white steel doors.
Bullet holes.
One of them, the one with the damning evidence, has mysteriously disappeared, and the rest of the rubble has, of course, all been destroyed.