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Dec. 7, 2015 - Art Bell

02:22:13

Art Bell MITD - Neil Sanders Modern Mind Control

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40:58

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01:09:20

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Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening, good
art bell ▲ ● ▼		morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be in the world's 25 time zones, each and
		everyone covered like a blanket by this program midnight in the desert
		you.
		My name is Art Bell.
		Alright, the rules of this program are ever so easy.
unidentified		No bad language, and one call per show.
		During the week we only have two rules.
		He insists you adhere to that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would like to welcome the mighty Cliff, K-L-I-F, 570 AM in Dallas, Fort Worth, Texas.
		Welcome to the, uh, program.
		Um, or should I say, welcome back.
		I guess we're back, really.
		I was on Cliff long ago, and so I'm just sort of back.
		Hello, Dallas, Fort Worth.
		Glad to, uh, be there.
		Man, I remember in the old days, you know, I'm an old rocker, so Cliff was like one of the top rockers in the whole US.
		Man, I'll tell you.
		I've still got air checks, old Cliff air checks somewhere.
		Alright, let's look at a little bit of news, then we're going to talk about mind control.
		Boy, I cannot think of a better case of mind control than is going on with ISIS.
		When you can remotely influence somebody to not only change what you believe, but go out and kill for that new belief, and you can do that on the Internet, that, baby, is mind control, if there ever was such thing.
		The San Bernardino killers had been radicalized, apparently now, for quite some time.
		Had taken target practice at area gun ranges in one instance, just days before the attack that left 14 dead.
		In a chilling twist, authorities, get this, also disclosed that a year before the rampage, Syed Farouk's co-workers at the County Health Department had undergone an active shooter training in the very conference room where he and his wife opened fire on them.
		That's right, active shooter training.
		I wonder what that's like in San Bernardino, California.
		My guess is you hide under desks, you hide in closets, you lay down and play dead.
		You know, I've never been to one, so I don't really know what they suggest.
		And I'm sorry, but here is where I'm Second Amendment all the way.
		To me, an active shooter Training would be how the hell to shoot back.
		Have a gun to shoot back.
		Don't go down like a lamb.
		That's something I believe in very strongly.
		My political views are, you know, all over the place.
		I'm liberal in some areas.
		I'm very conservative in some areas.
		But I'm constitutional in most of them.
		And that's it.
		Active shooter training.
		Learn how to shoot back, that's what I'd say.
unidentified		That's commentary.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Syria on Monday accused the U.S.-led coalition of bombing an army camp in the eastern part of the country, killing three Syrian soldiers, wounding 13.
		But a senior U.S.
		military official said the Pentagon is certain that the strike was from a Russian warplane.
		The dispute over the deadly airstrike underscored the increasingly Chaotic skies over Syria as various powers hit targets in the war-ravaged country.
		I'm telling you, it's like LAX on a bad day there.
		Our planes, European planes, Germans, French, British, Russian, American.
		Yeah, nothing can go wrong there, huh?
		And then, about the middle of the day, Donald Trump just, you know, threw everything up in the air, as he is inclined to do frequently.
		Donald Trump called Monday for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States, an idea swiftly condemned by his rival GOP candidates for president and other Republicans as well.
		The proposed ban would apply to immigrants and visitors alike.
		So, no more Muslims.
		What do you say?
		Until the US government, the Congress, figures out what's going on, here's what I think.
		Of course, it is a million miles from being anywhere close to PC politically correct, right?
		Donald is not politically correct.
		It's probably not constitutional either.
		I'm not sure about that, but I doubt it.
		And yet, I think today.
		A lot of Americans are probably saying privately in their own homes, yeah, you know, yeah.
		And this is how Donald has had luck.
		He says what everybody's thinking, but afraid to say.
		You know, if you say something like that, then let's say you're a bigot, you're helping ISIS, you might as well be paid by ISIS, I heard it all, right?
		So, it's not said out loud.
		That's how PC we have become in America.
		It's not said aloud.
		But in the private, in homes, people are saying, yeah, baby.
		You know, it's got people scared, and for good reason.
		Of course it's not all Muslims.
		Not even most, or many.
		But, it's a threat to the homeland.
		A direct, now, threat.
unidentified		Right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Every now and then, I get to read a little bit of good news.
		Rarely, mind you.
		Global carbon dioxide emissions may be dropping ever so slightly this year, spurred by a dramatic plunge in the Chinese pollution, according to a surprisingly new, very surprising study released Monday.
		The unexpected dip could either be a temporary blip or true The true thing, the only true hope, really, that the world is about to turn the corner on carbon pollution as climate talks continue in Paris.
		So, that was a little good news for the climate talks, I guess, right?
		And then I thought this was hilarious.
		This comes from AP and I'll read it as is, pretty much.
		Two Fox News contributors were Sunday For using inappropriate language about President Barack Obama while discussing his speech on terrorism the night before.
		What they said... Peters, uh, let's see... I guess I'd better read the whole thing, right?
		I usually don't do that.
		The analysts, former U.S.
		Army Lt.
		Col.
		Ralph Peters and actress Stacey Dash were each ordered off the air for two weeks Peters was appearing on the Fox Business Network program, hosted by Stuart Varney.
		When he was asked his reaction to the president's speech, he said he didn't like it.
unidentified		Quote, this guy is such a total pussy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's stunning.
unidentified		Quote.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Peters said.
unidentified		Really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He got booted off the air for two weeks for saying that?
		Well, I thought that was a norm over at Fox.
		Alright, enough of that.
		Neil Sanders, who's coming up, holds a master's degree in film studies.
		Studied psychology and media production for his BA honors.
		Is a qualified hypnotherapist and past life regressionist.
		Boy, am I going to be asking about that!
		Neil is considered an expert on mind control, which is supposed to be a topic, and has been studying the history of this dark art and its application by military and government intelligence agencies across the globe for many years.
		He's appeared on a lot of TV shows, made numerous radio appearances in Europe and the US.
		To bring the subject of mind control to the attention of the public, Neil is also the author of Your Thoughts Are Not Your Own, Volumes one and two.
		Now isn't that a little bit disturbing?
		Hearing that your thoughts, ladies and gentlemen, are not your own.
		They were formed, ignited, thought of, passed on, distributed, propagandized to you, and now you think that that's what you think because of them.
		They're controlling your mind.
		So, coming up in a moment, all the way from Great Britain.
		Not sure where he is in Great Britain.
		We'll find out.
		But he sounds great on Skype.
		So we're going to be discussing, well, a lot of things.
		Mind control.
		If ISIS is not the best example of it, I don't know what would be.
		From the high desert, I'm Art Bell and this is Midnight in the Desert, raging in the nighttime.
unidentified		The clock strikes twelve and Midnight in the Desert is pounding package your way on
		The Dark Matter Digital Network.
		To call the show, please direct your finger digits to dial 1952-225-5278.
		That's 1952.
		Call Art.
		All right, let's see if we can reach out across the stream, and then out across the Atlantic Ocean to the other side, and get to Britain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Neil Sanders, welcome to Midnight in the Desert.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Hi Art, how's it going?
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much for having me on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you're very welcome.
		You sound great, Neil.
		Well, thank you.
		This is an important topic to me, so I'm going to take it in sort of pieces here, and the first topic I want to actually address is, I've done so much on regressive hypnotherapy and past life regression that before we launch into the mind control, I'd really like to know what you've done with regard I mean, look, is reincarnation real?
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		I don't know, to be quite honest.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it would be unfair to categorize me as a past-life regressionist.
unidentified		I have done quite a few past-life regressions.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		I know how to do them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That qualifies you.
unidentified		I beg your pardon?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I said that qualifies you.
unidentified		Well, yeah.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's not something that I do an awful lot, so I'm not perhaps as qualified as some.
		You know what's very interesting, though, Art?
		When I first did it, I have to confess that I was a bit sceptical about it.
		I thought, all you're going to do is, like, you know, prick the person's imagination and they're going to see, essentially, what they want to see.
		Right.
unidentified		But that was until I actually started trying them.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		And it's a very, very curious thing, because everybody's experience is different.
		Everybody's experience seems to be incredibly detailed, but the thing that sort of got it for me, or sort of certainly made me think, maybe there's something in this, is that uniformly everybody's experience was ridiculously mundane.
		It was never like, I'm a knight on a big white charger, I'm Cleopatra.
		There was none of that.
unidentified		It was always... Yeah, but Neil, it should be mundane.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, It makes me suspicious when I hear about a past-life regression and you're always Christopher Columbus or somebody like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I expect the mundane and the other would be very, very rare.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's exactly it, and it was the sort of depth of detail that people were reporting and sort of the real all-encompassing feeling of actually being there that is certainly a very interesting experience.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		I've never had it done to myself, but as I say, I've done it a few times.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, then the question is this, Neil.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you consider that you really are taking somebody back into another prior life?
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Very possibly.
		What is also possible is that there's some sort of collective memory, what Jung would term as the collective unconscious, and that you're sort of tapping into some other experience.
		I suppose it very much depends on how you view Well, I don't look at it that way.
		whether it is all one thing experiencing itself subjectively or whether you are actually sort
		of a separate channel I suppose.
unidentified		But it is certainly very curious.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't look at it that way.
		I look at it either as true or bunk.
		And I think it's true.
		I'm kind of coming around towards sort of believing in reincarnation.
		So if reincarnation is real, well then the work done by hypnotherapists who take people back and find another life validates it.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, I certainly know some people that do... I mean, I don't do this, but what some people do is they do all their therapy in past lives.
		They assume that basically, you know, any problem in this life, so to speak, can be sorted out by going back and sorting out problems on other life lines, so to speak.
		And, you know, they appear to have great success.
		So, who knows?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, according to those others that I have spoken to, When a hypnotherapist takes them back to some sort of trauma, maybe the way they died in the last life or major trauma in that life, it then sort of releases, karmically, them in this life and it doesn't bother them so much anymore.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You think that's accurate?
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Very possibly.
unidentified		It's a catharsis, basically, that happens.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		You release, as I say, the pent-up emotions.
		That's certainly what you aim to achieve, in one way or another, in every form of hypnosis.
		that's not forward positive suggestion. You'll get some people that do this sort of
		thing, like imagine yourself in three weeks time
		wearing that red dress and you look so thin and everyone loves you and you look
		fabulous and that's one method. I actually don't
unidentified		think of myself that way ever.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you never know, I mean, with the past life.
unidentified		Maybe we can sort something out.
unidentified		Yeah, maybe we can sort something out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's morning there, right, Neil?
unidentified		It is, I'm afraid.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		It's desperately early here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How early?
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Apologies if I'm a bit scattered.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, I was going to compliment you on your sense of humor for, what, five o'clock in the morning or something?
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it is five o'clock.
unidentified		Well, it's about twenty past now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've got coffee and whatever?
unidentified		Well, thank you very much.
		Hopefully I'll maintain it.
		If you hear me sort of thud, that's just me nodding.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's why I was asking.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've got coffee?
unidentified		Yeah, I've got stuff.
unidentified		I'm fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, stuff.
		Alright.
		We are going to talk about mind control, and so for that purpose, define mind control.
unidentified		Well, I mean, it's a very, very broad spectrum, really.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		I mean, anything that causes you to change your perspective or act in a way that would not be your own preferred way of acting could be defined as mind control.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		I mean, in the realm of sort of, you know, military application, MK, ultra social control and that sort of thing.
unidentified		It basically falls into four subjects.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		The first would be tooth serums, the search for some sort of mystical drug or potion or powder or whatever that can basically render somebody completely open in an interrogation scenario.
unidentified		The second would be the flip side to that, which is... Well, let's not go past that one yet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold on.
		You said they can give a drug that will render somebody absolutely open.
		In other words, there is nothing they would not tell you.
		Is that really true?
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's certain drugs that were tried.
		I mean, this was the foundation of all the American entries into, and the English entries into, micro-trials.
		I mean, the English were trying this in 1943 at least.
		Uh, in places like Egypt, say, you know, during wartime, and then the, uh, the Navy started, uh, Operation Chatter in 1947.
		And, and they, they used all sorts of things, ranging from getting people, something as sort of, uh, unsophisticated as getting people addicted to heroin, and then refusing, you know, like, in The French Connection 2, basically, you know, we're not going to give you this unless you start talking.
		and then other things would be, you know, putting people on high amphetamines and stuff like that.
		Then there's a lot of other drugs that we use that sort of open you up, make you a bit more
		suggestible, things like scopalamine and sodium pentothal and sodium amytal.
		But there was, I mean, it's a strange one because you can only really go off the sort of
		the release and declassified documents and the majority of them basically say that, well,
		unfortunately we never really got to the end of this and there was no meaningful results.
unidentified		But to be quite honest, you would put that anyway, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well when you look at the media, a lot of TV shows and movies They bring forth this elixir in a needle, stab, stab it into somebody, and they just say anything that the person, the interrogator wants to know.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, there's certainly examples of experiments where this was certainly tried.
		Some were very useful, some were not.
		What's very strange is, just going by the documents, the best method of getting information from people was actually hypnosis.
		Now, that's a bit of a loaded statement because I couldn't get that information from you, but apparently the hypnotists that were attached to the projects were able to, but it certainly suggests that there's something missing in the notes.
		You wouldn't be able to do this just By using suggestion, you would have to sort of enlist a certain amount of trauma into that.
unidentified		But, you know, we can go on to hypnosis later.
unidentified		But certainly things like scopalamine, I mean, they use scopalamine in South America.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		They call it devil's breath.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		They grind it up and they'll blow it in your face and then get you to go and empty your bank account and you'll dutifully do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
unidentified		Wow.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so then it will make somebody do virtually anything.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		I mean, how effective it is, you know, there's a certain amount of befuddling with all these drugs, so how effective is it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the better question is, if that really does, as you just described, and we know about that, then what are the ones that we don't know about that the CIA has, what do they do?
unidentified		Well, exactly.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		I mean, they tested literally hundreds and hundreds of drugs, like the whole list of every sort of available and unavailable narcotic was tried, you know, some very, very exotic things like STP and BZ.
		I mean, that was initially, again, Um, how the Americans got involved in, in the sort of, um, experiments with, with, uh, LSD and such like that, because, initially, again, they, they felt that it might be useful, uh, as a truth serum.
		Later, they, they decided that it would be more helpful as a sort of, uh, an incapacitant, something to, if you, you would spike somebody with LSD without their knowledge, and basically, then they go and do a press conference, or whatever, that they act like a complete fool, and it, it discredits them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gee, you're not suggesting that Donald Trump was so injected prior to his speech today.
		You probably haven't even seen it yet.
		You're in England.
		You don't know what he said, unless you've watched the news.
		Anyway, that was a joke.
unidentified		Nobody knows what is going on with Donald Trump.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll tell you, actually, it's very interesting.
		It really is interesting.
		Donald Trump said today, That all Muslims, and I mean all, visitors and immigrants alike should be barred from coming into America until Congress figures out what's going on.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Well, isn't that throwing the baby out with the bathwater?
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		I tend to think that Donald Trump has a tendency to take very, very complicated issues and uses rhetoric and lowest common denominator politics to grossly, grossly oversimplify things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The thing is, though, Neil, it works.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Of course he does, because basically what we've got at the minute is a politics of fear.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I don't know whether you want to come on to this at all, but basically, fear is beneficial for countries.
unidentified		Of course, yes.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		It's very, very strange, but basically it drives the population to a very childlike state.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Say?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I said, oh, yes.
		I mean, absolutely.
		Look, America right now is full of fear, and I know in Europe the people are too.
		A lot of fear going around.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		What's strange is that basically your sort of go-to position is to go to an authority figure and ask them for help.
		What's even more curious is that Tavistock Institute, the Tavistock Institute was a psychological think tank that basically came out of the studies of shell shock during the First World War.
		It's English but it's started by a gentleman called Hugh Crichton-Miller, John Rawlings-Reese and then Kurt Lewin who was involved in both the Frankfurt School and the starting of the OSS.
		Basically, the Frankfurt School went on to found certain things that you might have heard of, like MIT, Stanford Research Institute, National Institute of Hypnosis, Esalen, Rand, Wharton School of Economics.
		It helps with blue-chip companies like Unilever, BP, IBM, CBS, NBC, Shell, Hewlett-Packard, the FBI, the CIA, Naval Intelligence, Department of Defense, United States Department... I get it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I get it.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		Right.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		What was the main point of Tavistock?
		Tavistock institutes what they called FutureShark.
		Future Shock was the methodology that they devised and recommended to all companies and governments that they were helping with.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, what is that?
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Basically, what it involves is a huge amount of stress that comes from outside points, usually terror and that sort of thing, in a Gladio-style operation, in order to reduce the population's thinking capacity.
		It reduces them to what's called a tibular rosa, which is a blank state.
		Yes.
		It's just curious that this tactic appears to happen, or this tactic that is admitted and documented, if one were to take a step back, certainly you could overlay that on today's scenarios.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You certainly could, and we will, I think.
		You're right.
		Fear is just a great motivator and it's really in play right now.
		That's really why I thought, Neil, that tonight We should try and understand how ISIS, reaching out from Syria with internet propaganda, can manage to take people who are good Muslims, and slowly but surely,
		change them uh... and uh... radicalize them into they are prepared to go out and sacrificing their own life take as many lives as they can i can't think of a wilder scenario in my own mind and not my god you're you're just reaching out using social nothing more than social media to take somebody who's a relatively normal person and turn them into A killing monster.
		I mean, that really is what we're talking about.
		Hold tight, Neil.
unidentified		You look like an angel.
		Walk like an angel.
		Talk like an angel.
		But I got one.
		Midnight in the Desert doesn't scream falls.
		We trust you.
		But remember, the NSA... Well, you know.
		To call the show, please dial 1-952-225-5278.
		That's 1-952-CALL-ART.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so... I sometimes wonder if people are actually listening to me.
		Somebody named Frantic Rose... Billy Frantic?
		Or is it Frankie?
		I'm frantic, I think.
		She sounds frantic.
		Says, I'm unsubscribing, Art, because you're basically like my kind of racist Fox News watching grandpa.
		Outdated views and supporter of a dangerous fascist.
		Wake up, man!
		Really?
		All I did was repeat the news of the day.
		And in terms of Fox, all I did was comment on the guys that got in trouble on Fox.
		I'm not a Fox watcher.
		I just came across the AP.
		People, I think, don't know where I am politically, but if they think they detect where I may be politically, they go crazy.
		So does she think I'm a Trump supporter or not a Trump supporter?
		Just because I commented on the news?
		Ah, well.
		It does not matter.
		Back now to Great Britain and Neil Sanders, and so, Neil, we were talking about About ISIS and how they can reach across the world on the internet, no drugs involved, and convince people to kill.
		I mean, my God.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, there are, I mean, certain questions should be asked about... They have an incredible PR mechanism, ISIS.
		They have t-shirts that you can buy, websites, you know, magazines.
		There's an ISIS magazine that's produced.
		Did you know that?
		They have Twitter feeds and such like.
		It begs certain questions.
		I'll tell you, the only thing I could liken them to is the PR firm Norton & Hill.
		That's the only other firm that I've seen that has had such successful and far-ranging PR.
		I mean, for crying out loud, Isis gets into more homes than Justin Bieber.
		It's ridiculous, like they're really utilising the modern day things, but that begs a lot of questions because you can shut down websites, you can find out where servers are based, IP addresses and such like that.
		For them to have such a huge and apparent and overt mechanism is certainly, I think, most strange.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Alright, so here in America we have the First Amendment.
		Yeah.
		I'm curious, are ISIS sites in Great Britain barred?
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		To be honest, I couldn't tell you.
		I've never really been on them.
		I would imagine... I don't know, to be quite honest.
		I really don't know.
		I mean, obviously some people are getting on to them somehow.
		But again, I haven't looked myself, to be quite honest.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		I was just curious.
		I know your government is a little bit tighter than ours in a lot of regards.
		That might be one of them.
		It could be stopped.
		I believe it could be stopped.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, I do.
		I think it's very strange.
		I mean, you could even look at the utilization of Twitter and certain elements of the Arab Spring and such like that.
		For example, in Iran it was proven that the CIA were trying to foment riots, for one reason or another, but with the use of Twitter and social media and such like that.
		So, we're now in a cyber world, basically, cyber espionage as well, and by that I don't mean in space.
		So, yeah, again, it's very, very strange.
		But, again, Hilton & Noel, by the way, is the PR firm that was hired by the American government to convince us to go to war against Iraq the first time, where they got the girl out and pretended that she was Kuwaiti and that she'd seen Iraqi soldiers murdering babies, dragging them out of incubators, and it transpired that she was actually a good friend of President Bush.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I remember that.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		For some reason he didn't recognize her.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		I assume because his vision was clouded with tears.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That whole thing was filled with lies and propaganda.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would relate to a lot of the wars that we've Jumped into, uh, over our history in the U.S., no question about that.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, I'll put it this way, okay.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		What's certainly strange about ISIS as a terrorist organization is, in one sense, they're incredibly PR savvy.
unidentified		They, you know, as you say, they're able to recruit people and stuff like that.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		and yet time and time again they make bad bad decisions decisions that would
		draw uh... is back into iraq decisions that would draw us back
		into libya decisions that would basically result in their death
unidentified		ultimately it is certainly curious that that all these decisions that
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		are made by this uh...
		completely separate uh...
		uh... terrorist organizations certainly seem to advance the foreign policy in the desired foreign policy of england
		and america I'll give you an example.
		As early as 2011 we were trying to invade Syria.
		We were using a, do you remember a thing called Syria Girl?
		Where basically, there was a, maybe you didn't get it in America, there was a blog that was going on in a newspaper in England of this poor repressed girl that was living in Syria and she was constantly in threat of being murdered by the Assad regime because she was secretly a lesbian.
		Now, it transpired that not only is that not representative of how lesbians are treated in Syria, but it also transpired that not only was this person not living in Syria, but there were a gentleman, a CIA agent, living in Scotland called Tom McMaster, whose wife was involved in some firm that was trying to redevelop... No, she had a master's degree in Syrian economics or something like that, and she was also connected to intelligence agencies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So how are lesbians treated in Syria?
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Well, as far as I'm aware, better than in certain other places.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		As far as I'm aware.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And does that apply to male homosexuals as well?
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		I don't entirely know, but I've heard, yes.
		But again, I'll be working on received wisdom.
		I've heard it's not as bad as in some places.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is quite different.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		I mean, what's interesting as well is that basically, again, if you look at the mechanisms, if you take it as read that this was an attempted coup, that, you know, first off we try destabilizing through sort of public opinion, then we start financing the Free Syrian Army, then we use the media to sort of put out the idea that there's a popular uprising against Assad, all of which is proven to be false.
		Later.
		What's strange about that is it's identical to the failed coup that the CIA attempted in Venezuela in 2002.
		Exactly the same techniques were used and were later exposed and admitted to.
		So it's certainly strange.
		So this is the thing about something like ISIS.
		I think that's the utilisation of the fear.
		It makes you think of it in a vacuum and you can't think of it in a vacuum because Now, here's another thing.
		Why would anybody join something as crazy as ISIS?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Alright, let's move one ten miles an hour at a time.
		Let's go back to the Assad government.
		Do you think the U.S.
		is unreasonably demonizing the Assad government?
		Is that what you're saying?
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		I'm suspicious of the tactics that he used, because they're duplicitous.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, look, we, like every other nation on Earth, we propagandize, right?
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		To support our actions.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, um, is the Syrian government, the Assad government, not the bad guy, or guys, that you, or that the media makes them out to be?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that what you're saying?
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		If you want to really break it down to the simplest, because that is... I do, yes.
		That's correct.
		It's not as bad as being made out to be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
		Uh, and the Russians right now, of course, support Assad, and they are bombing mainly the rebels that are fighting Assad.
		Do you agree that's going on?
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
		Well, that's certainly what is being reported is going on.
		Again, what I think you've got is a proxy war, and I don't think it's contained to war.
unidentified		I think it's connected to broader gas pipelines and economic structures, essentially America
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		looks like it's going to lose itself as the major hyper power and so it needs to sort of claw back any
		incentive to get dollars into the petrochemicals market that it can.
		That's where in my opinion, I think you've got to look at the Ukraine as well.
		I think, basically, the Ukraine looked like it was going to leave the European Union.
		And that would have been very detrimental, again, to this concept of getting American petrodollars into the world to keep America strong in the global sort of market sense.
		And so, I suspect that was used to sort of almost distract Russia a little bit, because obviously the Ukraine-Russia thing has a certain historical bent that also goes into it.
		And also, again, to give you the idea of painting Russia as a bad guy, I mean, we've been using things like that band Pussy Riot to try and paint Russia as the most terrible place.
		You know they're sponsored by the American Department of Defense?
		Like, they're not a real band.
		They've only ever produced one song, such as it is, and it was financed by the American Department of Defense.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		I mean, how more blatant can you be?
unidentified		Yeah, okay, I'll go along with that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know if I want to discuss Pussy Riot, but I do want to discuss... They're really not worth it.
		No, they're mostly not.
		But I do want to discuss what you think is going to happen in Syria.
		Do you think the Russians, I know we've been putting on the PR, I've seen it since the The crash of that plane, even early on before we understood that there was a bomb on it, and I'm not still sure about the bomb thing, but the U.S.
		was saying, well, this will turn Russia around, and they'll start bombing ISIS.
		And boy, we were heavy on that.
		I saw that as U.S.
		propaganda.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		It was a little on the nose, wasn't it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Pardon?
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		It was a little on the nose.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		It seemed a bit Yeah, just a bit.
unidentified		me it seemed like a slightly clumsy black man attempt. Yeah just a bit. I saw it that way.
unidentified		Uh he's one of those things really isn't it?
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Because this is what it's all about.
		This is what this fear is about.
		In my view, I think to a degree, this is what the proliferation and the constant advertising of ISIS is.
		They've committed despicable acts.
		There's nothing that's going to take away from that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here's what I want to ask about, Neil.
		Their propaganda, mainly, consists of Pretty horrible things.
		I mean, showing people getting their heads cut off, burning pilots alive, shooting people in the back of the head as they're lined up kneeling on the ground.
		That's a lot of their propaganda, Neil.
		And I'm wondering how that translates in people's brains to, oh boy, I want a piece of that.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		I know.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, it's very, very strange, isn't it?
unidentified		Yes, it is.
unidentified		It is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You could.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I'll tell you for what, Ray, or certainly in my view, it's the same reason anyone would join an army, and this is not meant in a disrespectful way, the
		way that anyone would join a sort of group or a club or a cult or anything like that. Why do
		people, well there's two things right, okay nobody joins an organization right going, I'm going to be
		the worst or maybe gangs like you know drug selling gangs, but nobody tends to join an extremist
		organization to say, oh you know, I want to be the worst, I want to be the bad guy.
		People use mental gymnastics to justify their position.
unidentified		Whatever they're doing, it's justified because, you know, ends justify the means.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		They're going against something worse.
		So you've got to understand that.
		Again, these things don't exist in a vacuum.
unidentified		For whatever reason, they feel that their actions are justified.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		And then why would people join a cult?
		Because it gives people security.
		It gives people a simplified version of the world.
		It tells them what the world does, what's up, what's down, what's left, what's right.
		And it also shows their position in it, which is incredibly psychologically comforting.
unidentified		So that would be the psychological mechanism as to why people join ISIS.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		The sort of political manifestation of it, I can only assume, is that they feel That the ISIS mission is justified for whatever reason.
		I assume they are fighting against what would be considered Western imperialism.
		I can't see any justification for that.
		You know, you can't fight fire... But I don't want to come across as an ISIS supporter, is what I'm trying to say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Probably that's a good idea, not to come across that way.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Well, absolutely.
		I mean, you know, it's monstrous.
		Using terrorism for any means is absolutely monstrous.
unidentified		And, yeah, it's despicable.
unidentified		There's no justification for it at all.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		What's interesting is who does it ultimately benefit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, let me ask you a question and just flush this out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you personally also upset with or disgusted by American imperialism?
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Not just in American imperialism.
unidentified		I think the foreign policy of a lot of nations is despicable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that including yours?
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, absolutely.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		And I think a lot of what we do is couched in flowery rhetoric and it uses suspiciously fortuitous world events to cover up what is essentially going to be of economic benefit to the invading country.
unidentified		Yeah, I'm sure that's true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And we can look back to what we did in Iraq as the reason for ISIS being where it is right now.
		And I do look at it that way, and boy what a mess that was.
		However, there's no saying he was a good guy.
		And there's really no saying Assad's a good guy either.
		Now, they're very, very strong hands in their country when they have control.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		But this is the point.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		It's not as simple as good guys and bad guys, is it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, it isn't.
		And I'm willing to say this much.
		I'm not willing to, I think, go as far as you go, but sometimes it seems like these bad guys, these iron hands, are what a country needs.
		It may well be.
		That not every country is meant for the kind of freedom that we have here in America.
		They're just simply not ready for it.
		And when you eliminate that iron hand, you get something worse.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, you're always going to get a period, like after any emancipatory act, where people go crazy.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		I mean, you could compare that to... I imagine the first week that weed was legal in Colorado, there was a lot of people that were throwing up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Um, actually, I just did a show on that, Neil, um, and nothing at all, um, bad happened in Colorado.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In fact, the crime rate actually has gone down.
unidentified		No, no, no, what I mean is you'll have a bit of a blowout, like when something suddenly becomes available, like when you go on a diet or something like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure there were long lines, if that's what you're asking.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Long lines.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		I beg your pardon?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Long lines.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		How do you mean, long lines?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, in front of the pot shops in Colorado.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah.
unidentified		That's what I mean.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		So yes, of course you're going to see some sort of chaotic scenario, but I don't know if that justifies despotism.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		So again, how is ISIS, with these horrible videos, able to convince young people in this country, young Muslims, to Turn from the center of what is their ideology to a new one and then randomly kill.
		That is as much of a mind control at a distance as I could imagine, no matter what we talk about.
unidentified		Mm-hmm.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		It's very effective.
		But it uses the same techniques, as I say, as joining the army, as selling Nike trainers.
unidentified		It's that inclusory thing.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		It's like, I want to be part of something.
unidentified		And the whole point is it's positioned in such a way... I would imagine that there's not...
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		you've got to be pretty damn desperate to want to get into that sort of thing. So, you know,
		like a lot of cult mentalities, I imagine that they're picking on a lot of weaknesses in human
		psyches and stuff like that. Getting people to blame existential problems, like, on one thing.
		Ah, you know, my life's not going particularly well, etc, etc, etc.
		And this bloody American imperialism.
unidentified		You know what?
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		It's all down to American imperialism.
		And then you channel it in that way, I would assume.
		You know, that's the thing.
		You've also got to appreciate that a lot of these people are coming from sort of war-torn areas where they've got a very limited view of the world.
		And so they would position themselves as freedom fighters.
		Incorrectly, I would hasten to add, but that's how it can be done.
		This is how you convince people of things, right?
		Walter Lippmann said, how do you control people?
		Well, you paint the pictures in people's heads because people work I'll put it this way.
		You find a lump of yellow metal.
		You assume it's gold.
		You would react as if you found gold.
		If you've never seen a map or a television and somebody tells you, don't go that way, you'll fall off the edge of the earth.
unidentified		You're not going to go that way because you work on the received wisdom I do interview people about the edge of the earth where you fall off, too, Neil.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a whole other story.
		Hold on, please, Neil.
		We're at a short break.
		It's two minutes.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is Midnight in the Desert.
unidentified		I'm Art Bell.
		Coming to you at the speed of light in the darkness.
		This is Midnight in the Desert with Art Bell.
		Now, here's Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Somebody writes on the wormhole.
		Thought this was gonna be about mind control tonight.
		Really?
		You mean you don't consider what ISIS is doing to the people that it somehow controls from the other side of the earth?
		Well, not quite, but pretty nearly the other side of the earth, right?
		With messages on the internet that take them from being a moderate Muslim to being an extremist Muslim who will go out and kill randomly because they believe that's what's wanted.
		And that's what God wants.
		That's what they're doing.
		And if that's not mind control, then I would hate to see real mind control.
		I mean, that's serious stuff.
		I have no idea how you convert somebody like that.
		But apparently, if you've got enough millions of people, some of them on edge, some of them ready to grasp the kind of stuff that ISIS sends, I don't know.
		Earlier on CNN, see, I do watch CNN, they were saying, well, look, the media, you know, refers to these, in quotes here, young masterminds.
		Young masterminds.
		You know, like the knife attack there in London?
		They call them a young mastermind.
		Well, that phrase has an effect on young men.
		Who might not feel they're the masterminds of the world, you know, with the highest IQs.
		They might decide, well, to be a mastermind, all I need to do is just stab somebody with a knife.
		What about that, Neil?
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		I think you've nailed it there.
		I think because that's obviously a very grievous mischaracterization. Also, you know, the gentleman,
		it was just a nutter.
		He wasn't in any way connected by the looks of it to any sell or anything.
		He might have sort of, you know, took up the ideology.
		But again, just to sort of appease that gentleman as well, and to sort of tie back to my previous point,
		what I was saying about pictures, if you can paint the pictures, you can control perceptions.
		So, for example, in an area like the Middle East, you can explain, certainly to somebody whose only knowledge of America is what's coming to him from his peers, and from what he might have viewed, you can paint them as evil.
		campaign the world in the way that you want and then people react in the way
		it's true the other thing is is that is just that basically that the
		most effective propaganda
		is how do you get people to kill for you you say that that other person is going to kill you
		and so and and and to be quite honest in again in certain areas of the middle east that would not
		be a particularly difficult
art bell ▲ ● ▼		argument thing to sell to a young gentleman yeah but how do you sell it to
art bell ▲ ● ▼		some guy and some girl in san bernardino redlands well wherever it was
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		it comes to the next point uh... there there's a certain thing whereby
		uh...
		you get a certain psychological comfort and as you said before
		A certain amount of self-credit, you get a certain amount of power by associating yourself with this broader group, this huge group.
		What happens then is a process called de-individuation whereby basically you sort of hypnotically almost take on the attributes of the group.
		It's like, to take it to a sort of micro-level, that's why perfectly sensible people get caught up in like hockey riots or whatever, do you know what I mean?
		Because you go along with the masses and you get swept up with it.
		The problem is when you get into a group like that, you feel, you take on responsibility.
		So, you take, you would feel guilty, or you would feel, if you did not act, then you are not helping in the situation, basically.
		You're proliferating the situation.
		I'm not saying, again, that that is correct.
		What I'm saying is that you would put somebody in a position where they feel that this other ideological point wishes to kill them.
		And the only way that they can stop that is to get in first.
		To draw back to my previous point, I don't think these people, they obviously were, but I don't think they think of themselves as bad.
		I think that they think of themselves as soldiers.
unidentified		Oh, I agree.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		And ultimately what they're doing is not as bad as the enemy.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		And I think that's how you convince people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I agree.
		I agree, I agree, I agree.
		But it's a lot of this very, very violent ISIS propaganda that seems to turn people's minds And if that brings me back to the young mastermind's comment, or maybe just, I don't know, a sign of the times that they're able to do this, but in the past, horrible depictions of violence wouldn't exactly be something that would draw people
		chew it, just click the opposite away from it so something's happening. It's the internet age though, people
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		are desensitized by the internet and also when you're viewing something across
		the internet it's not quite the same as in real life you have a
		separation you also there's a certain amount of bravado
		I remember when the internet first came out and like these gore sites were there
		Like, that's what lads used to go on.
		And gorier the better, because it's like showing that you've got cojones.
unidentified		I can scan this and stuff like that.
unidentified		So there's a certain amount of machismo and, um...
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		proving oneself that goes into all these things.
		Again, he's tried and tested psychological methods of mind control,
		make you feel inferior and then bomb you with positive emotions
unidentified		to sort of bond you to a group. Once you're bonded to a group you feel indebted to that group.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		So you would do all sorts of things to prove your allegiance
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		and so that you don't risk getting kicked out of that group because you've put so much psychological investment
unidentified		This is me.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		This is part of my psyche.
unidentified		This is what defines me as a person.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Even though I don't fully understand how they can do what they can do with what they've got, I acknowledge it's working.
		So let me ask you this.
		How do you fight that?
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		How do you fight an ideology?
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		You can't fight an ideology.
unidentified		This is the point.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		You can only fight through education, I suppose.
unidentified		But again, this is the problem.
		It's not as simple as that.
		It's not as straightforward as that.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		It is a multi-faceted thing.
		You're going to get some people who are hardcore members of ISIS.
		You're going to get some people who are sort of wannabes that basically, again, take that on board as some sort of bolstering of their psyche.
		And then you're going to get all sorts of different disparate sort of groups.
		There's not just ISIS, there's al-Nusra, there's the Free Syrian Army that's there, there's al-Qaeda still.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		There's a lot of groups.
unidentified		And the other thing is, Art, that you've got to appreciate, a lot of these are driven by mercenaries.
unidentified		Like, provably, there's a lot of mercenaries who just get paid to kill.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		And a lot of people are profiting from the continuation of a combat situation.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Like, you've got to keep buying those bullets from somewhere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Um, I believe that Britain has been named as the next target of ISIS, right?
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Well, according to our government, yes.
		And that may well happen, but again, you know, this begs all sorts of questions about the Who is benefiting from these acts in the first place?
		You have to be suspicious when you have knowledge of the Gladio projects in Europe, where they were hiring fascist groups to kill civilians and blame it on the communists.
		NATO was doing this.
		proliferate their own wants economically.
		America's done this, presided over genocide in South America numerous times
		and often you use terror groups because essentially you want to, it's a
		proxy war. I think what is interesting about the whole point of terrorism
		is the fear that it creates. Now if you're saying about what can we do about this, I know this is very
unidentified		strange but you've not got to be afraid and knee-jerk.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		You've got to look at things rationally, and you've got to look at things from a step back, because when you're in a position of fear, you're going to fight or flight.
		You make black and white decisions.
		You don't have the time to ruminate and to go, what's the most sensible option?
		More often than not, you go running to an authority figure.
		I mean, again, I'm not trying to be disrespectful about this, but you seem very impressed by the fact that the internet has managed to... I am.
		Well, absolutely.
unidentified		But I'll give you another example.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Do you know Top Gun?
unidentified		The film Top Gun?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		One showing of that caused a million young men to go and join the Air Force.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		This is the point of perceptions.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Presentation.
unidentified		Presentation of powerful entities that you can become a part of.
unidentified		You could join that.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		You could be Tom Cruise.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		You could be Val Kilmer.
unidentified		Imagine that.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Okay, this is the same psychological thing that would be going on in the mind of somebody that's joining a terrorist organisation.
		And it's the same tried and tested tactics.
		Edward Bernays basically said as early as the proliferation of the television that this is the most effective way that we can spread propaganda.
		We can get messages instantaneously.
		That's the thing about the internet.
		Messages are instantaneous.
unidentified		And because of the culture of the internet, you often don't have time to check.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		You've got to pin your colors to a mast.
		You've got to stake your claim and say, yes, I'm with this.
		No, I'm against that.
		Immediately.
		And before you know it, you're in an argument with four or five different people, and people are saying, which faction do you want to join?
		Well, an extension of that would be a political ideology.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
		Look, these message boards, for example, Neil, if you study a message board, I think it's a study in itself.
		I mean, it will start out, and in the very beginning, everybody is, even though they're behind pseudonames, they're relatively polite to each other as the site builds, and acting in a civilized manner.
		However, given a few months and more members, there will develop, without a doubt, and there is no exception to this, A horrible fight in which one faction will be pitted against another.
		Now, that's just a microcosm, but it's like the rest of the world.
unidentified		Absolutely.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it's accentuated by the internet because of two things.
		Basically, one, you've got that separation of screens, so it's not like really being there.
		You know, you can say something that you wouldn't say to somebody's face.
		Right.
		Um, you've got an audience.
		Even though you're on your own, you've got an audience of peers that you don't want to be, you don't want to come across as a punk, do you?
		Like, do you know what I mean?
		And you've got to impress these, these people, or psychologically.
		It's, it's, it's a very, very strange thing.
		Some, like, trolling somebody or putting a negative comment on the internet.
		To do it, you just go, nah, done.
		You never think about it again.
		But the person that's receiving that has to read that and take it in and stuff like that, and it's like a sort of missile that's been launched into their private world.
		It's like a drive-by heckling, almost.
		And then you're sort of left with all that wave of indignation and nowhere to get it.
		The internet itself, when it comes to things like that, is terrible, because basically all it does is build narcissism A sort of strange smiling depression, where you've got these narcissists who are feeling inadequate because of the conversations that they're having, and everybody else basically hyping up their existence, you know, using the best photographs and such like that.
		And this is the point, but again, a praise on people's insecurities.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All this said, all this said, and what's going on on the Internet.
		Again, from a mind control perspective, or a propaganda perspective, if you want to look at it that way, how do we combat what they're doing?
		There's got to be a mind control solution for what they're doing.
unidentified		Hmm.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, there's lots.
		I mean, you could wipe their minds.
		I mean, how... Wipe their minds?
		...do you want to get?
		I mean, in what sense?
		Are you going to change these people's ideology?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In the same sense, Neil, that they're getting convinced to kill.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's got to be a way to convince them that killing is not a good solution, lead to anything productive.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Well, first you'd have to understand their ideology and what they want to achieve from it.
		Again, this is the thing, you can't just say, you couldn't go up to these people and say, what you're doing is wrong.
		Stop it.
		Because they don't think it's wrong.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, you can't say that.
		You can't say that.
		No.
		But you perhaps could attempt to convince them that terrorism, which is designed to obtain political change, ain't gonna work.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		I'll flip it around on you, Art, because it's the same question.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		How could you convince a five-star major general that bombing Syria would be of absolutely no use?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Um... You couldn't, could you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You couldn't, no.
unidentified		Not really.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Well, there you go.
unidentified		Not really.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		But this is the problem.
		Again, that's the point.
		Because people are so very much invested into these ideas, That basically, it would be exactly the same thing.
		It's a very, very complicated situation and I don't think it could be solved in a sentence.
		But it is, it would be the same principle.
		like somebody that's, you know, their entire life in the US military is convinced that what they're doing is the right
		thing and that this action will ultimately be successful and they're
		aware of the collateral damage and the clever use of language which means dead civilians,
		which again came out of Tavistock by the way but ultimately they feel what their actions will do will be
		beneficial, will be the right thing to do.
unidentified		And this is the problem that you face up against a terrorist organisation.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		So, you've either got to show them that this is wrong, you've got to... What you could do is you could reduce confidence in the leadership.
		Or reduce confidence in the structure to show that basically there's certain juxtapositions and falsities in their narrative.
		You could certainly do that.
		What you could explain is you could show the passages from the Koran that expressly forbid absolutely everything that they're doing.
		But again, you're getting into lots of different things because, again, it's not just a political matter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, now you're working on it a little bit here.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		It's a matter of what has religion attached to it as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, okay, so now you're working on it at least a little bit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what I wanted to hear, where mind control can be used from that side to take an ideology that is quite calm and quite peaceful and pick from it individuals and radicalize them.
mark in san diego ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And do all this over the internet.
		There's got to be a counter To that.
		In the world of mind control.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		The counter would be basically, as I just said, you know, education and stuff like that.
		The problem that you'd be rubbing up against is how open to that these people are.
		Because, I mean, it would be very much like, again, trying to extricate somebody from a cult.
		You must have seen all these documentaries and stuff where they're trying to get somebody out of, say, Scientology, or the Moon is, or something like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		The problem is that basically you're so embedded in something that any outside influence you've seen with suspicion is seen as an attacker.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Well, of course you'd say that.
unidentified		Of course you would say that.
unidentified		You're the enemy.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		I expect you to come at me with counter-propaganda, but I don't believe it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think this is out in left field that there is any subliminal Messages going on in the ISIS propaganda?
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		No, not really, because I don't think there's any need to do that, because again, it's based on more sort of tried and tested methods of disaffected people being sold an ideology, being sold a way out of their dismal
		lives for want of a better expression. So I don't think there's any need for subliminals.
		Interestingly, Harvard has proved that subliminals do work, mostly if they're negative.
		There was an experiment where people were told to complete a computer program and
		unbeknownst to them, subliminal words were flashed up.
		Some were positive, like joyous, happy, handsome.
		Some were negative, like decrepit, old, diseased, that sort of thing.
		And it was discovered that if you flashed up the negative subliminals, the people found it incredibly difficult to actually get motivated and complete their task.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, as I listen to you, I detect, I don't want to say, a sympathy for ISIS.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think what I want to say is No, no, no.
unidentified		I have an understanding.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think that I detect an understanding on your part of why they do what they do.
unidentified		No, no, not even that.
unidentified		I wouldn't say that.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		I don't justify it or anything.
		I understand why terrorists join terrorists Well, I'm not asking about sympathies, though.
		of that, I understand that it's not as straightforward as saying, what is the answer? Because basically,
		it's very much driven by that organization. I'll repeat that basically, I have absolutely
		no sympathies for ISIS, and I have absolutely no sympathies for their cause.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not asking about sympathies, though, I'm asking about understanding.
unidentified		Well, again, in the same way that I understand why the IRA formed, and can understand their
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		argument, which was vital, again, we could take that argument, that was vital to the
		peace treaty that was eventually brokered by the IRA, with the IRA in England, was an
		understanding of their demands, and, you know, negotiation on all sides.
		I don't think that'll work in ISIS's sense, because I don't think They're interested.
		But again, if you want to move it further, you need to have an understanding of what their motivations is, what their motivation is, and how you can respond to that.
		And so, yeah, no, I don't have any sympathies towards them at all.
		I understand how terrorist groups form, and I understand how cults draw people in, and so I can understand the psychological manifestations of why somebody might Yeah.
		I mean, to an extent that's true, but also that's just a very catchy copy, isn't it?
		Well, it is, yeah.
unidentified		It is.
unidentified		Very catchy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		but it's stupid joining a cult as well. Okay, our president referred to ISIS as a
unidentified		a death cult. Yeah, I mean to an extent that's true but also that's just very
art bell ▲ ● ▼		catchy copy isn't it? Well it is, yeah, it is very catchy, death cult. However you are
art bell ▲ ● ▼		likening ISIS to a cult though, right?
unidentified		Absolutely.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Well, again, the psychological manifestations of why somebody would join it.
		But again, I would liken Air Jordans to a cult.
		Why do people wear Air Jordans?
		Because you know that you're better than the person that stood next to you.
		And that's not me.
		This is how advertising works, Art.
		This is basically, if you want to be a great advertiser and understand the psychology of selling products, you need to understand why people join courts.
unidentified		Because that's the same thing with a product.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		There's a sliding scale of how seriously you would apply this to yourself, but any product is essentially a bit of a talisman.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Why would you buy a Mercedes as opposed to what's a very poor car in America?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At the moment, Volkswagen.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Okay, fine.
		There are certain cultural things that are attached.
		There's a prestige in driving around in a Beamer or a Mercedes or whatever that is not necessarily aligned to, say, the particular quality or the customer service or anything like that.
		But there's an idea behind it.
		It's like those terrible, like, people are paying thousands of dollars for those Kanye West trainers.
		Why?
unidentified		Well, because they've got the endorsement, the celebrity endorsement.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		And also, again, basically, if you wear that, you're sending out a message to somebody else.
unidentified		Yeah, look at me.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		I've got this.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		I'm better than you in this sense.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess.
		I guess that's true.
		So, advertising.
		Tell me, just moving backward a little bit, what is your assessment Of the Assad regime.
unidentified		I thought I heard something there.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't really know.
		Again, I don't imagine it's nearly as bad as we're painting it, because we seem to be rather heavy-handedly propagandizing it.
		There are certain bloggers and activists and stuff that are sending, like, videos from inside Syria that paint a very different No doubt he's grimy.
		He's a dictator.
		What I find curious is that if there are all these definite reasons to depose him, why do we need to go around the bushes with it?
		Why do we need to hire proxy armies and create situations whereby you're trying to create uprisings and such like that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, I mean, you can kind of make the same case where Saddam Hussein, that he held that country together in a way that nobody else certainly has demonstrated they're capable of doing, including the full U.S.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Again, it's complicated, because Saddam was a monster.
unidentified		There's no doubting that, that he was an absolute monster.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And Assad, on the monster scale, where is Assad?
unidentified		I couldn't really tell you because at the minute it is too mired in propaganda.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		I would imagine, I would be incredibly surprised if he was in any way clean.
		Like I'm sure that he's got a huge amount of skeletons in his closet.
		But then again, Iran-Contra, El Salvador, places like that.
		You show me a leader of a country and I'll show you somebody that's got skeletons in their closet.
		Even Obama's been killing people in Pakistan illegally with drone strikes, children and civilians.
		So, again, it's sliding scale.
		It's not as straightforward as, is this guy bad?
unidentified		Let's get him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, so he's not as bad as Saddam, in your mind?
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Like, I wouldn't imagine so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I'm willing to accept, Neil, that we're propagandized, because I've lived out of the United States as many adult years as I have lived in it.
		And so, when I watch the news in foreign countries, I fully understand that we are propagandized.
		I mean, there's simply no question about it.
		No question about it.
		I know we are.
		But some of it is true.
		We're not the best.
		We do evil black things many times.
		But we also have some things that we do that are sort of above average.
		Freedoms that are above average when compared with freedoms around the world.
		So, we're not perfect, but we're better than a lot.
		And not as good as some of the other countries out there, I might add.
		There's more freedom in other countries than there is here.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's interesting you say that, because America's got more prisoners per capita than any country in the entire world.
benton in arkansas ▲ ● ▼		We do.
unidentified		We absolutely do.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		So, which is interesting, because where are the drugs coming from?
unidentified		Well at the minute they're coming from Afghanistan.
		That's smart.
		Iraq?
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Chicago?
		You know El Chapo?
		You do know that the ATF basically gave El Chapo free reign to run as much drugs as he wanted into Chicago in exchange for certain information against other people.
		Now, you could say that they bargained with the devil.
		What you could say, also, is like in places like Compton, what you're doing is you're gentrifying the population and ensuring that you've got a huge slave labour market in the prison industrial complex.
unidentified		What do the people make in prisons now?
		Missiles!
		Circuit boards for missiles.
		It seems, seems to be a self-feeding industry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it is.
		Yeah.
		It is.
		Yes, okay, so you have, I think the audience can tell from listening to you, you have a view of America that would probably not consistent with most Americans who have They've been propagandized by their own government for a long time.
		Fair to say?
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		No, not at all.
		I have a view of American and English foreign policy.
		I happen to think America is a fabulous place.
unidentified		It is.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		I've been lucky enough to be there.
		I've found it to be nothing but wonderfully courteous and fantastic, and it makes England look a bit poor, to be quite honest.
		So no, I really, really like America.
		I'm suspicious of its foreign policy, but I'm suspicious of Russia's foreign policy, I'm suspicious of France's foreign policy, I'm suspicious of Israel's foreign policy, and the UK's foreign policy.
		What I would go back to when you're saying about Assad being bad and stuff like that, you're absolutely right.
		I'm sure you could make a case that painting him as terrible.
		You could make that same case in Bahrain.
		You could make that same case in Saudi Arabia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
unidentified		Why aren't we?
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		And so that would be my point about propaganda is that it's selective.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		It's selective and that again draws back to the concept of mind control and painting pictures in people's heads and making connections and forcing people to make choices based on limited information and forcing that decision very very quickly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The British Empire of course has sort of
		been in decline for a long time well yeah uh... then came the american years and even
		empire if you want to call it that
		and now it would appear that we are either leveling out or in
		decline uh...
unidentified		would that be your view by possibly a and
unidentified		I mean, it certainly looks like that.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Well, it certainly looks like, basically economically, certain powers like China and Russia are creeping along.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		And America is perhaps not the single hyper-power anymore.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I would love to discuss a little bit more about Syria with you, because I see the mix in Syria, Neil, as the devil's mix indeed, and no matter how you view it, with all these different countries flying jets and with anti-missile stuff all set up by the Russians and all the rest of that, I see almost an inevitable collision That could result in the next World War.
		I'm not saying it's going to happen.
		I'm saying the ingredients are all there.
		It's like they're almost starting to come to a boil.
		Not quite, but you know those little tiny bubbles you get before a full boil?
		Kind of like that.
unidentified		I'm Art Bell.
		I'm Art Bell.
		Please ring Art's bell at 1952-225-5278.
		That's 1952.
		Call Art.
		952-225-5278. That's 1952. Call or it is my guest all the way from Great Britain is Neil Sanders
		It is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And he's doing a great job The subject for tonight was mind control, and I think a lot of people thought, well, they're probably going to talk about some of these old programs, you know?
		LSD, when you're least expecting it.
		Some of the programs like the Phoenix program.
		I will ask about that, but, you know, as I thought about this program before it started tonight, I thought, if somebody can give me a better example of mind control than ISIS is doing on these people over here and over there in Britain.
		And they're doing it remotely with this produced stuff they've got.
		If there's a better example of mind control out there, I don't know what it is.
unidentified		And this one's pretty important.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So anyway, Neil, welcome back.
		Just one quick question for you on Syria.
		I've been saying This thing in Syria, this soup that's going on with the Russians and the proxy war and everybody behind everybody and so many planes in the air, including yours and ours, Russians, eventually something horrible is going to happen, almost inevitably.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		It doesn't look great, does it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, actually not.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		No, I mean, and again, you know, what the outcome of this, I suppose one argument you could make is it depends on your
		personal view of the Cold War, whether that was a genuine threat or whether it was an
		excuse to channel funds.
		And with all of these things I imagine that it's not that straightforward and it was a mixture of the two, probably
		leaning towards the latter.
		Yeah, people are playing a very, very dangerous game at the minute and what the outcome will be is strange.
		But to be quite honest, I mean, we've been in a state of constant war for, you know, either hot or cold, for as long as I can remember, to be quite honest.
		Now, obviously, this is involving superpowers and such like that, so it looks decidedly more serious.
		But again, it's very, very strange.
		My only advice would be to try and sort of, and again, it sounds rather trite, Don't be afraid.
		You might have very good reason to be afraid, but again, the point is that fear eats the soul.
		Fear causes you to not be able to react sensibly and rationally.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well this is Gallo's humor, but I'm going to try it out on you.
		I tried it out on a physicist and it just didn't even go anywhere.
		And that is, if nuclear war starts, friend of mine said, he's going to run out and try to get directly under one of the incoming bonds it and call for a fair catch
unidentified		it's a football metaphor but yeah I get it
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I like it okay good, alright so what
art bell ▲ ● ▼		is or was the phoenix program and did it continue
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		well I mean it's a very strange thing It ties in with this concept that we were talking about earlier, about constant fear from an exterior point, making people, causing stress.
		Now, essentially what the Phoenix Programme was, it was a terror campaign that was conducted on a civilian population, or people that It was justified as people who were deemed to be supporters of the Viet Cong, but actually, nine times out of ten, it was used on civilian populations.
		So what this was, was during, as I say, the Vietnam War, certain CIA teams would go into villages, seemingly, again, that would support the Viet Cong, and they wouldn't attack the leaders, they wouldn't attack the actual Fighting troops or whatever they would attack their wives and children now in the Phoenix program.
		They actually Did very, very gruesome acts that were, at the time, were blamed on the Vietnamese but it later transpired were actually caused by Americans.
		Including sort of like disemboweling, beheading, positioning of bodies.
		One particular one was that they put a large picnic table in the middle of the village and they put places and knives and forks, plates, etc, etc.
		and then they would put all the dead bodies of the villagers sat in position around this table
		take their heads off and put their heads on the plate facing them
		and then what they would do is they would leave and they would never leave an explanation
		Leave that horrible, horrible, open question of what on earth has happened here, aside from the fact that this was obviously incredibly brutal.
		And do you know, when the people got back to the village, they didn't really feel like fighting anymore, because they were so disheartened that basically it just I think so.
		them, it causes such incredible trauma. And this is the point, it all comes down to trauma.
		Every type of mind control to a degree has an element of trauma, a traumatic experience
		that causes somebody to basically break off from their normal mode of thinking, create
		what's called amnesic barriers around horrific acts, and it simplifies the personality, basically
		horrific acts and it simplifies the personality basically you get like a
		you get like a sort of honeycomb personality, often perhaps numb to certain emotions, that
		sort of honeycomb personality often perhaps numb to certain emotions
		uh... that can't react and that is exactly what will be happening with a lot of these
		can't react. And that is exactly what will be happening with a lot of these people where
		people where they feel a justification to join ISIS again not to excuse
		merely to explain that these are obviously damaged disaffected people
		you can't convince somebody to do horrific things like that without
		using that to fill an incredible part of their psyche and bolster their personality
		but yeah I mean that was essentially the phoenix program and it was
		uh... again it was essentially I think it was William Colby that was in charge of it
		Now, what's bizarre, and this wasn't really my theory, Dave McGowan, uh, has recently died, which is a great shame, um, that the sort of booning serial killers that seem to be
		using methodology that was not dissimilar to the tactics used in the Phoenix program
		seemed to sort of verge in at the same time as William Colby came back from Vietnam.
		Now, again, it sounds crazy, but if you look at the inference of institutes like the Tavistock Institute, like
		Crew House, like Wellaging House, which basically, as I say, started all these institutions
		in America as well, their chief methodology is to use trauma on the civilian population
		in order to terrify them into passivity, basically.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It seems so counterintuitive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You say that, and yet, you know, they're doing the exact opposite thing.
unidentified		How do you mean?
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		By passivity, I mean a lack of decision-making.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		You go to an authoritarian and go, tell me what to do about this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Alright, but the images of horror that come from ISIS seem to have another effect entirely.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Well, they do.
		It depends.
		Like, I mean, the effect that they have on, say, Western audience is to terrify them and to go, this is monstrous.
unidentified		Yeah.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		And then perhaps go to somebody, what can we do about this?
		We need to stop this.
		We need to stop this.
		So that's how it would work to the other people.
		It's like when people used to, like, it's like a battle cry or something like that.
		They're getting pleasure in terrifying the opponent.
		They're psyching you out.
		That's what the mentality of that is.
		You know, like, you know, staring down another boxer or whatever.
		Or, like, barbarians used to basically, like, cover themselves in blood of their enemies or something like that.
		And, you know, carry the heads of their enemies on pikes or whatnot.
		It's the same mentality.
		It's to terrify.
		So it works, you know, obviously everything has a sort of stimuli and a response to it.
		The point of it is to terrify the population.
		Like, oh my God, these people are maniacs.
		We'd better acquiesce to all their needs because otherwise we're going to lose.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm not sure anybody's saying that.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		No, I mean, but that's the point of it, and the other response is to go, well, no, I mean, we need to do something about it.
		I mean, the fear response, as I'm saying, the point of it from ISIS's view is to terrify.
		The point of it, what it actually does, is it does terrify, but the response to that isn't necessarily that they're just going to stay frozen, or is it?
		Because it depends, again, entirely on your view of who this actually benefits.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it does seem to do two things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Certainly it does terrify, but then on the other hand, it seems to recruit as well.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Same time.
unidentified		Of course, yeah.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Because it's a show of power, and you get to join this powerful entity.
		Like, it's like people, and this might sound like a glib thing, but it's like nerdy kid from the suburbs vicariously living out his fantasy through a rap song.
		Yeah, I'm a gangster.
		Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
		Right.
		I know that's a really, really thin end of the wedge, but it's the same thing.
		You can associate yourself with this more powerful group.
		Depends how you want to take it.
		Depends on your personal ideology.
unidentified		Alright.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Because most people would think it's foreign.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Alright, let's try this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's move into another area and say, And ask how entertainment, and that's most of what people watch, after all, is entertainment, how entertainment can influence how we view the world.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, have you ever read books like Operation Hollywood, for example?
		I mean, what a lot of people don't realize is that seemingly... Well, I'll say it like this.
		The most effective propaganda is something that you would never assume was propaganda.
		Now, did you know that the CIA has a liaison office with Hollywood that's also in congress with the Department of Defense?
		Now, what this basically does is it has an office which can lend you all sorts of equipment or people or troops or, you know, whatever to make your film look extra special and fantastic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I believe it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do.
unidentified		Sorry?
unidentified		I believe it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Simple as that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I believe that the CIA probably has exactly that.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's absolutely true.
		You'll find that they actually thanked the Department of Defense on the end of the films.
		But a lot of films that come out today, particularly ones that are aimed at the youth market, like Transformers and Iron Man and all the Marvel sort of films and stuff like that, and also particularly things like Zero Dark Thirty and Hurt Locker, although they are interesting cases because they pretended not to have backing of the military, which is nonsense.
		They have the backing of the military, but what the military says is essentially, we get the final rewrite of the script.
		Even some films like Stripes, you remember that Bill Murray film, Stripes?
		I do, I do.
		Well, that had a similar involvement of the military, and a lot of the characters were changed.
		The original script to Stripes is nothing like the film that actually came out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm not surprised by this at all, Neil.
		Not at all.
		I would expect it, and I understand it.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Mm.
		But I mean, a lot of people wouldn't, because basically you assume that, you know, it's a bit of entertainment, a bit of escapism.
		I'm just going to go and watch these giant robots smash each other to bits for an hour and a half.
		And you don't assume that subconsciously what they're doing is promoting a pro-military, pro-foreign policy type message that is actually coming through these films.
		And again, this isn't wishy-washy.
		This is absolutely admitted.
		I see, it used to be run by George Tennant, who used to be the head of the CIA.
		That used to be the liaison office.
		I forget who exactly runs it at the minute.
		It's a different gentleman.
unidentified		But numerous films have done that.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		And then films that basically refuse to make the changes in the scripts, they don't get the help.
		Films, for example, Apocalypse Now was flat out refused because the actions of the Marines were deemed unworthy of a Marine.
		I've seen both.
		things like uh...
		this film called wind talkers and uh... in it the east i have a single vote it
unidentified		didn't affect apocalypse now is a great motion picture although absolutely but he was about that i i i i i i i'm a
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		big fan of it but what i'm saying is that the message wasn't deemed pro
		uh... was indeed positive enough for the uh... american military so they refused
		to allow the use of any uh... of that uh... equipment and so we have to go
		and uh... borrow some offer off somebody that was fighting a war at the time and so
		it equals a lot of fuss but like the same thing happened with james bond
		films for example the the characters that make massive errors
		uh... originally they were american and uh... they were changed uh... and in
unidentified		return for that they do allow to use them
art bell ▲ ● ▼		aircraft carriers and such like that so it would be fair to say that uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		hollywood uh... over the years
unidentified		slowly but surely manipulates you into a point of view It certainly can, and it certainly does in the more mainstream films who have an economic reason to do this.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Obviously there's still art that gets out there, there's films like Apocalypse Now and there's films that have a negative portrayal as well, but what's strange is that this Remarkable.
unidentified		certain raft of films all that seems to be aimed at uh...
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		asserted demographic which by the way just happens to be people who are of that
		age where they might want to join the military
		uh... they all have the backing of uh... of of the c i a and i mean and and the
		military and have an implicit over time
		of of being positive towards american foreign policy
art bell ▲ ● ▼		remarkable uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		and and in britain uh... since we can talk about both countries uh... do you
unidentified		think that uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		uh... your british government has the same sort of control over the that the
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or even more so?
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		They do have embedded journalists.
unidentified		I mean, this was exposed by a gentleman called David Shaler a few years ago.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		I mean, what's interesting is, you know, we've been talking about propaganda and stuff, and people will be like, no way, I'm informed, I watch all the different news and stuff like that.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		You know during the Kosovo invasion the CIA embedded 1,200 agents at CNN to influence
unidentified		the news basically?
unidentified		Basically, the whole point of them was to spread propaganda.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Again, they admitted this to one person who was interviewed.
		He says, are you affecting news?
		Some would call that propaganda.
		He said, it's above my pay grade to say yes or no, but I certainly hope so, because that's what I'm doing.
		Also, the CIA owns 16 times more publishing houses than the largest publisher, largest legitimate publisher in America.
unidentified		So, magazines, books, All the sorts of things that would paint a certain picture.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		I'll give you other examples.
unidentified		Films can change history.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		I mean, everybody's brave heart is littered with historical inaccuracies, but that's basically people's... Have you ever seen a film called U571?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		It's about the stealing of the Enigma machine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes, yes, yes.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		That almost caused an international incident, because basically the Enigma machine was stolen by British soldiers and agents.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		That film shows that it was plucky Americans that actually did it, and it actually caused Prime Minister Blair to publicly denounce that particular film.
unidentified		But, I mean, I'll give you another example, right?
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Have you ever heard of the phrase, or the incident, the storming of the Winter Palace?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, that's one I haven't heard of.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Right, okay, it's an incident that happened during the Russian Revolution, and, um, the common sort of mythos is that this army of peasants sort of stormed into the Winter Palace, which was this, uh, where the Tsar and his family lived.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And was that when they were killed?
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Obviously, a big symbol.
unidentified		Right.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		uh... of of their oppressive regime is that it would be bad killed everybody
		right huge fabulous right now
		uprising right what actually happened was nothing of the soul of the
		Basically, some people wandered into there, everybody of any importance had already left, they got lost, and some of the servants actually helped them out of there.
		But a few years later, as part of Russian propaganda, they staged a theatrical recreation of this event, and it was filmed by a gentleman called Sergei Eisenstein, and then this was published in a film.
		Um, called 10 Days That Changed the World.
		Now, bizarrely, if you go to certain history books, not all history books, but they will show pictures, stills from the film, and proclaim them to be photos of the incident that never took place.
		So, so that incident has become absorbed in the cultural lexicon to the point where certain historians will swear blind that it was a real event.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there a way to recognize the fact that you are being exposed to mind control and encounter it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, sort of like an alarm clock going off in your mind as you sit and listen to the news or watch a program, that you're now the subject of mind control?
unidentified		Well, I mean, yes and no.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		I mean, obviously, it's very, very sophisticated.
		Now, like anything, you don't put a big plate of green stuff with a sign in it that says poison on somebody's... No, of course not.
		You put it in a pie.
		So, that's all in their favourite food.
		So, it's obviously well disguised.
		What I would say is, when anything comes to you, you think, well, could there be an ulterior motive?
		Like, who would benefit in Positioning me in this particular way.
		Who would ultimately benefit in me hating this person?
		Like, you know, we've all seen The Godfather and stuff like that.
		You can kind of think of news like that.
		Okay, right, so they're telling me this.
		How could they possibly benefit if that happened to be not true?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's going to, like, follow the money.
		All right, hold on, Neil.
		We're at a break point.
		I'm Art Bell.
		This is Midnight in the Desert.
		We're talking about mind control.
		it's really good like a good phone talk to you very
unidentified		no it's their right the
		this is midnight in the desert To call the show, if you're east of midnight, call 1-952-CALL-ART.
		If you're west of midnight, call 1-952-225-5278.
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, what I want to do now is actually open the lines.
		My guest, Neil Sanders, is here from Britain.
		Let me give you a rendition of all the numbers, and if you want to join the conversation, please feel free, by all means.
		It's open now, folks.
		The international, or the national number, rather, is area code 952-225-5278.
		Once again, area code 952-225-5278.
		two two two five five two seven eight once again area code nine five two
		two two five five two seven eight
		the first-time caller line if that's what you are called show before
		you're welcome area code seven seven five two eight five
		fifty eight hundred seven seven five two eight five
		fifty eight hundred and uh...
		Roswell line can be used if you wish.
		The entranceway in Roswell we'll call it.
		You call that number it rings here.
		Area code 575-208-7787.
		Area code 575-208-7787.
		And then finally, of course, Skype.
		You are welcome to join in the subject Mind Control.
		And you can join in on Skype.
		North America, meaning America and Canada, MITD 5.1.
		That's us.
		If you're outside North America, the rest of the world is MITD 5.5.
		That's MITD 5.5.
		Once you've entered it, we'll be on the contact list and you can just hit it and boom, from anywhere in the world, you can dial us up free of charge.
		Once again, here is Neil Sanders.
		And Neil, before I pick up any lines here, I wanted to discuss with you again how, A, to recognize the fact that you are in a, you're being controlled.
		That you're in a mind control environment.
		And then B, how to fight that.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, as we said before, like, how to know you're in a mind-controlled environment?
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Well, you are in a mind-controlled environment.
unidentified		There are numerous things that affect everything.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		I mean, just going back to what we were saying about, you know, the changing of films and such like that, not just films, for example.
		Say Time Warner.
		Time Warner has got a conglomerate board level where the shareholders sit on the same board that's connected with weapons companies like Lockheed
		Martin and such like that.
		So due to sort of shareholder laws but also due to profitability and such like that
		they won't make decisions in other areas of the company that will affect the weapons
		manufacturer.
		A case in point was when Tupac, his second album was delayed for quite some time because shareholders felt that it would be detrimental to them at that particular time because he had an anti-war sentiment on his first album.
		What you see is the stifling of certain people because of, again, very, very disparate things that you wouldn't imagine.
		You'd never think that a record company had anything to do with a military industrial complex type organisation that had a vested interest in continuing a particular war at that time.
		But they do.
		So you've got to appreciate that.
		Things that seem organic are not organic.
		Justin Bieber was not an organic explosion.
		He was part of a very, very clever marketing campaign by Scooter Braun.
		All your favourite artists don't really write those songs.
		It's Max Martin.
		They're selling a project to you.
		So you've got to sort of understand that basically there are vested interests behind any bit of information that comes to you.
		And when you do, perhaps then you've got a better way of going, hang on, this is rubbish.
		It doesn't mean that you can't enjoy that song, it doesn't mean you can't enjoy that film, it doesn't mean that you'd stop watching.
		No, I missed that one.
		or anything like that. You just understand that sometimes people have got a bit of a
		vested interest. I'll put it another way, did you see that Narcos that was on recently?
		It was a very, very good and entertaining series, but it certainly washed over the Iran
		Contra and the involvement of the CIA in it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I missed that one.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		The Medellin and such like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I remember Iran Contra, but I missed the film, so.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Sorry?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I said I remember Iran-Contra like it was yesterday, but the film you mentioned, no.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		It was a recent television series on Netflix, but again, you know, that'll be, the majority of people will have, that'll be their first introduction to the understanding of Pablo Escobar, for example.
		And so, that picture is painted in their head, that perception, Alright, well let's take a few calls, shall we?
		Here is James on Skype.
unidentified		thing that you're told, you usually, you know, people have got this inclination to go, seems
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		plausible, and then stick to that, and then you have to argue another point. So it's bizarre that
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		basically the first thing that people come to is often the thing that they take as a base point,
unidentified		as that then has to be disproved. All right, well let's take a few calls, shall we?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here is James on Skype. Hello, James. Hello, R. Roswells.
unidentified		Thank you.
unidentified		I'm getting sort of a feedback, sorry about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's alright.
unidentified		Go ahead.
		Anyways, Neil, I've been listening to you and I'm an American, you know, I've been over and I've lived a quarter of my life in the Middle East, okay?
		While you're saying certain things, I think that you lose a little bit of I don't know how to put this to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just straight on.
unidentified		Lose a little bit of credibility when you're trying to say that the CIA is the reason for everything when you don't look further back into history.
unidentified		I mean, the British have had more involvement in the Middle East than we have.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		I agree with that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold on, Palmer.
		He's agreeing with you.
		You don't want to miss that.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Alright?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He agrees.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		You're absolutely correct.
		I mean, this is the point that I was trying to make as well, is that it's never as simple as that.
		Perhaps I have oversimplified by continuously saying the CIA was only to sort of, you know, try and cater to the audience that I felt that we were talking to.
		But you're absolutely correct.
		They're often cross-contamination.
		A case in point would be the 1975 coup that the CIA, MI6, And also the Australian Secret Service took in Australia, where they deposed the Labour government because they wanted to close Pine Gap.
		And ever since, basically, there's been that involvement from MI6 and the CIA in the foreign policy of Australia.
		So, you're absolutely right, perhaps I did oversimplify that, but what is true is that there is foreign intelligence agencies involvement in all sorts of conflict across the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay Colin, go ahead.
unidentified		What I was saying is, I'm even going further back than that, but let's get off that track for a second.
		My major concern is you brought up a problem with mercenaries, okay?
		I happen to do that for a career.
		And I'll tell you this, I've worked with Brits, South Africans, and a whole lot of people that do the same thing, and we all work for one unified purpose, to try to bring stability to a region that's never seen stability since the 7th century.
		And it was a failed, it was a failed, it was failed from the beginning because it was done incorrectly.
		And I know how it was done incorrectly.
		And so I think you also, you lump everybody into, look I don't fight, I fight for money, but I also fight for ideals.
		And I have not fought since those ideals have been perverted.
		And that's what I'm trying to get to, is please don't... You keep lumping everybody into this big pie, and I think that's a big mistake.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, hold on Colin, go ahead.
unidentified		Okay, no, that's a fair point.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Well, if I've done that, that was not intended.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		I assume that the point was inferred by the fact that, because you're not part of a terrorist organisation, I appreciate that, obviously, people are motivated by different things.
unidentified		And therefore, I assume that you would understand that I wasn't talking about you.
		Well, you may have assumed that, but when you speak in generalities, just like I've seen you numerous times try to bend over backwards, when you see the invasion of the West in Europe, especially England, of Islamofascist, and Chaberdé, What's Adnan Chalberdei?
		You guys have him on TV all the time, and we even have him on in the US.
		And yet he's the most virulent Islamo-fascist.
		Yeah, but he's also almost positive, like, proven to be an MI5 asset.
		Like, that's the point.
		He's stoking up this nonsense as part of the ongoing fear-based propaganda.
		Like, nobody takes him seriously in England.
		Everybody basically assumes that he's a tool of the government.
		Right.
		You say proven, but proven by who?
		I mean, that's the whole thing.
		By his past association with MI5.
		Oh, you have those facts and you can post them for art to display?
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		No, but there's enough like red flags to make a case. And certainly when you've seen all the other people like, I
		forget the gentleman, who was basically the mastermind of 9-11, who was a guest of the President, transpired that he was evaded
		from capture many, many times because of the fact that he was an asset of the American and the British intelligence
		agencies. And also, I believe Mohamed Atta was also an asset of the CIA, as was Tim Osmond at the time.
unidentified		Can we explore your views?
unidentified		So, Abin Kamsa is also basically, it's all connected with a place called Fringe Free Mosque, which is widely believed
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		to basically have been infiltrated by intelligence agencies many, many years ago.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Neil?
unidentified		Now?
unidentified		I would like to explore a little bit your views on 9-11.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		in england to the cameo and caller thank you and i was good call really good call
		it is uh... my question is uh... your views on nine eleven i
		would like to explore a little bit
		your views on nine eleven are you sure that this hinted at it so
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		well i i don't know I don't have a theory.
		I'm not one of these people that said Bush did it or it was an inside job.
		I think there are a lot of holes in the story.
		In the mainstream explanation of it, the 9-11 commission and stuff like that, there's a lot of things that have not been explained.
		I could see how it would be beneficial for, again, MI5, MI6, numerous agencies to allow it.
		I tend to sort of go along with the sort of, Al Gore, sorry, Gore Vidal said that he doesn't believe that it was an American government plan, but he does believe that certain elements of the government could have stood aside to allow certain things to happen.
		And certainly when you look at the funding that was channeled through the ISA to Mohammed Atta and the training that was given to the Taliban and the aid that was given to the Taliban and also to Osama Bin Laden and such like that, it certainly looks murky.
		Do I have a strong, definite position?
		No.
		And I think it's dangerous to have a strong, definite position.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If I can actually pin down one of your positions, I think it is that most things have happened Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In order to benefit the military industrial complex, our nation or yours, right?
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I think so, but how they are fermented to happen is interesting.
		How direct a hand in it.
		Whether like in the first World Trade Center bombing, the FBI are actually giving him the bomb, which was proven by the way, which he'd moved to a different place so it didn't cause a disruption that actually happened, or whether it's just Fermenting radicalisation groups and allowing them to do certain things.
		Yeah, I mean, that has happened many, many, many times throughout history and I wouldn't be surprised if certain elements of intelligence agencies allowed that to happen on 9-11.
		I'm very, very suspicious of the official explanation, which I believe has a lot of holes in the narrative.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I thought perhaps.
		Thank you for confirming that.
		Hello there on the phone.
		You're on the air with Neil.
unidentified		Yes, is this me?
		Only you know that for sure, ma'am, but it sounds like you.
		Okay, great.
		My name is Marlon.
		I'm calling from Los Angeles, and I'm curious about cults in general.
		And I'm wondering what your guest thinks about, for instance, Scientology and mind control and that sort of thing.
		And I wonder if he has any comment about that.
		You're going to get us all in trouble talking about Scientology.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Scientology, for example, is a classic sort of court mentality.
		The point of it is to remove people and isolate them, to give them meaning and to give them an understanding of a place in the world.
		And this is why it's very difficult to break out of certain courts.
		Because You've got to basically admit that you were wrong, so you go back to zero, but you don't, you were zero when you went in.
		The cult gave you some meaning, so to come out of it, same with the terrorist organisation, you're going to go back to psychologically less than zero.
		So it's very difficult, you need to offer somebody something other than that to sort of act as a mental crutch.
		What's certainly interesting is that the CIA were looking into the creation of cults and the manifestation of cults and how cults could be used.
		for political gains, such like that, in an offshoot of MKUltra called MKOften.
		Now this started in about 1953, just about the same time that Scientology was starting.
		Certain elements in the Scientology auditing process seem remarkably similar to a torture document
unidentified		that the CIA produced called the QBARC document.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Again, they basically promote isolation and overstimulation, which is, by the way, exactly what you get when you're on Facebook because you're isolated and you're overstimulated.
		The point of this, according to the QBARC document, is to reduce you to a vegetative state where you can't make decisions on your own.
		And therefore it's used in interrogation scenarios.
		What the e-meter, I forget what it's called, the meter that you hold when you're doing the auditing during Scientology is basically like a crude lie detector.
		And so it amps up your stress, which is again a tactic of intelligence agencies in interrogation scenarios.
unidentified		Very interesting.
		Because I've always sort of felt that religions are a way to control the masses
		and...
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		you could make that argument, I tend to stay clear of that because it's not
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		really any of my business until people start using it as an excuse to be
unidentified		terrible to one another really. You mean like now?
unidentified		Yeah, absolutely.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, totally.
		But, I mean, I don't know whether I said this earlier, but Christopher Hitchens basically said, you need religion to make people do wicked things.
		Now, I don't entirely agree with that.
		I don't think he goes far enough with that.
		I think he was basically stacking his argument.
		You need a cause to make people do wicked things.
		That could be anything.
		That could be patriotism, that could be money, that could be the love of a woman, that could be misplaced loyalty.
		There has to be a cause.
		Now, religion can be an all-encompassing cause, because, as I say, a lot of people use it to define their life, and 90% of people are fine with that.
		That's great.
		Get on with it.
unidentified		That'd be good.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		If you get some happiness out of it, that's wonderful.
		When I would start talking about it is when you start using it as an excuse for, as I say, genocide, or control of a population, or something like that.
		I think your point stands.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Thank you very much, ma'am.
		What about Facebook?
		Want to take a crack at Facebook?
unidentified		It's terrible.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		It basically causes depression.
unidentified		It causes narcissism.
unidentified		Everybody goes on there.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		It's addictive like gambling, which is what's strange.
		When you put down a post, What you're doing is you're gambling with social information.
		Now, social information is really important.
		Like, chimpanzees will go without food just to look at a picture of the dominant male in the tribe, because that's more important.
		That social information is more important and more beneficial to their life than a bit of food.
unidentified		So you're telling me that to a chimpanzee, a picture on Facebook is basically social information?
unidentified		Wait, wait, wait, wait, Neil.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're saying a picture of an alpha male chimpanzee on Facebook could be more important than food?
unidentified		Uh, to a chimpanzee, it could.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's what he said.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
		Um, and I'll tell you for why.
		If you look at, um, John, John's just got a promotion.
unidentified		Well, how did John get a promotion?
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		If I watch How He Acts and copy How He Acts, I might get a promotion.
		If- John's made fire!
		How did he do that?
		If I copy John, I can make fire.
		And that's why people are so obsessed with, like, celebrities and gossip, because they're deemed the alpha males, or the alpha people within our society.
		So subconsciously you're trying to glean information to make yourself more, in quotes, successful.
unidentified		So when you're doing stuff like that with Facebook, it's more potent to your psyche
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		than you would realise.
		So you put down a post, say, you get a load of likes, that's marvellous.
		You get a massive rush of dopamine or whatever, just like gambling.
		You get, nobody responds to it, all of a sudden you feel terrible.
		Well, here's an interesting thing, Art.
		What you might try and do is you might try and cater your output.
unidentified		You might go, well, that post seems to get more, more response.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		That paints me as a nicer person.
unidentified		I'm going to do that rather than the stuff that I was trying previously.
		Now, here's where it gets horrible, right, okay?
		Two points.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		A, most people For want of a better phrase, lie on Facebook.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		They post the most flattering photo.
unidentified		No.
		No.
		They give down the highlights, the edited highlights.
		You lie by omission.
		Oh no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Neil, you're ruining it for me.
		Really?
		People put up their best picture?
unidentified		Sometimes.
		Sometimes.
		Talk about propaganda.
		You don't put up the minutia of your life.
		You couldn't possibly fit the entire day of your life into Facebook.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		You're far too fascinated for that.
unidentified		I do get it.
		So what happens is you're looking at it and you're going, oh, John's going hang gliding today.
		Oh, my life's so boring.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My life sucks, yeah.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		So what happens is basically sooner or later your subconscious realises that your Facebook profile is probably more popular than you.
unidentified		It's probably got more friends than you, not really, but this is what your subconscious is being told, and so it builds up this depression.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		What's going on at the same time is you're trying to present an image of yourself that edited highlights the best of, so some people, not all people, would start to subtly lie.
		You see it on people flexing on Instagram and lying and stuff like that, all of which is incredibly psychologically damaging.
		The other point is, again, apart from the fact that basically it's an information gathering site that's founded by the CIA's In-Q-Tel.
unidentified		Sorry, James, talking about the CIA again, but it's a fact.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		And, you know, you're isolated and you're overstimulated, which bizarrely was part of this torture manual that basically encourages people to reduce to a vegetative state.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I could make it, and I'm not going to do it.
		Let's just take the next call.
		Hello, you're on the air with Neil Sanders.
mark in san diego ▲ ● ▼		Hello, this is Mark in San Diego, and thank you for the show.
mark in san diego ▲ ● ▼		I actually called in Friday during the Fast Laugh, and I was the one who mentioned the first 15 minutes of the first Manchurian Candidate movie.
unidentified		And I think it's very interesting.
mark in san diego ▲ ● ▼		At the beginning of that movie, they actually give a bibliography of the actual things that they're discussing in that movie.
		And I think on a much more sophisticated level than rumor and finding Finding people through attitude to actually go and commit these acts, I think that it's much more subtle.
		I think it can actually be chemically induced.
		I think that science has mapped the entire structure of the brain and voltages in particular areas of the brain.
		I think that what you can do is recruit people by a predisposition, but I think that I would like to find out exactly where those two people went before they committed this act.
		The other thing that I was so glad that you mentioned, Neal, was the money trail.
		This is a grim statement to make, but there are people in this country When there is one of those huge mass shootings, there are people who profit from that, by whatever means.
		It could be at a very mundane level, like ratings for local TV stations.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll tell you, who profits is weapons manufacturers.
mark in san diego ▲ ● ▼		Right, right.
		And one other last thing that I want to bring up that I think is very positive, because, you know, we're just kind of mired here in This bleak negativity, and you were saying, how can we get people to change?
		Well, I think that a great example, now we have competitive sports in schools and I'm trying to create a concept of unity sports and I think one of the main ways, one of the surprise things that has happened in the past 20 years or so is Las Vegas used to really be controlled by the mob and now it's controlled by Cirque du Soleil to some extent.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It ran better when it was the mob.
mark in san diego ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, but when you go see a show like that, or you go see gymnastics, you know, everybody wins.
		George Carlin had a routine in the 70s when they were starting to amp up football.
		And football is very divisive, and he was talking about the difference between baseball.
		You go home when you score, and it's like gridiron and all this.
		I think in some ways it's been proven that the NFL is used as a means, a fertile ground to market war.
		There's no question about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The NFL is used to market war.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Lay that on me.
unidentified		How's that happening?
mark in san diego ▲ ● ▼		The military actually pays the NFL to include overt patriotism and things like that.
mark in san diego ▲ ● ▼		Okay, war is a different thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, come on.
		Baseball games do the same thing.
		Baseball games, you know, we have the national anthem there, too.
mark in san diego ▲ ● ▼		That's over.
		One thing, okay, the last thing I'm going to say about this is that basically when you're addicted to something, especially like excitement, especially like a football game or intense competition or even gladiators probably in the past, it's your glands secreting drugs into your systems, you know?
		So I think that if you actually You know, I think that really everybody who's excited and everybody who suffers from post-traumatic stress, there's been this huge release of chemicals.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm going to give you that.
		There's a release of endorphins.
		For example, when Green Bay threw that pass at the end of this game last week, I damn near Jump through the roof.
unidentified		See?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But that didn't cause me to say, you know, let me get a gun here and join something.
mark in san diego ▲ ● ▼		Fertilizer doesn't make the plants grow.
		You have to put a seed in there, right?
		So by fertilizing the entire climate in the country into warring, and I'll tell you this, I'm a musical director in a church.
		And I also, I play music in many, many different situations.
		Catholic churches, Jewish synagogues, other sorts of... I watch, I will watch people in a church choir get into fights about football games.
		Okay?
		I'm telling you.
		I mean, and so there's an element of division and tribalism that I think is very pernicious and I think that 100 million people at least watch one football game a week.
		So that's 300 million hours per week in America of people getting into that vibe.
		God, what is that doing to us?
		I'm concerned.
		Somebody's making money off of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the NFL's making a lot of it.
mark in san diego ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think that the media makes money and I think that Well, you know, I could sound like a conspiracy theorist, but I really think that tribal division creates a fertile ground for misadventures through the world because of division.
mark in san diego ▲ ● ▼		We're all in it together, and that's what I think about the concept of unity sports.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you say unity sports, explain yourself.
unidentified		of what do you mean by unity sports? If you've ever gone to see Cirque du Soleil, one of
mark in san diego ▲ ● ▼		their incredible acts, there was a show called Kidam, and the ending was this, it's called
		the Bankettes or Bankine, and so you have these big huge guys, right, who are the base
		of these pyramids and they launch the little guys every year. Real quick, real quick.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Unity's Force, real quick, 15 seconds, we've got a break coming.
		What does it mean?
		Nobody wins?
		It just, you play?
mark in san diego ▲ ● ▼		Everybody wins.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Everybody wins.
mark in san diego ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, like the high school music guys.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I had a feeling that's where you were headed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Everybody wins.
unidentified		Okay, well, um, hold on.
		Here's a place where not everybody wins.
		Bright lights, they're gonna set my soul, gonna set my soul on fire.
		Coming to you at the speed of light in the darkness, this is Midnight in the Desert with Art Bell.
		Now, here's Art.
		Coming to you at the speed of light in the darkness, this is Midnight in the Desert with Art Bell.
		Now, here's Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Rob from Ottawa through the wormhole says, Art, the sound quality of this show is amazing.
		I love it.
		I beam when I see things like that.
		We're trying to bring you the next level in audio sound quality.
		Both with the guests, with callers, on the phones, all the way around.
		We're trying to bring you the next level of audio and I think we're doing it.
		And then Mars Trax says, oh, by the way, that pass by Aaron Rodgers was a Hail Mary!
		About as anti-Muslim as you can get in sports.
		And with that, back we go to my guest, Neil Sanders, and we're talking about mind control.
		So if you have a comment, feel free to join us.
		Neil, you've done a great job.
		Here is Estus for you on Skype below.
unidentified		Uh, hello guys, can you hear me?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Uh, yes indeed!
unidentified		Alright, excellent.
		First time on Skype, actually.
		Um, Neil, uh, the stuff you've been talking about with, like, media study, uh, it's something I find really fascinating.
		I studied it a fair bit in university, and, uh, that point you made earlier, um, uh, with the show Narcos and, in general, the influence that entertainment has on our thinking, I had a couple questions that kind of fall under the same subject.
		My first is, For someone who enjoys action movies like the spectacle of it all and the characters and such, is it possible for people to still enjoy those movies and be completely divorced from an intent to influence their opinion on public policy or the military?
		Let me answer that one first.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I would hope so.
		I'm a big fan of action films and violent horrors and such like that.
		Yeah, absolutely.
		You can just take it as entertainment and avoid the message.
		I mean, it's like an advertisement.
		You don't go out and buy every single product, particularly if you've seen through the advertisement.
		You know if you sort of know that actually those Air Jordans aren't going to make me a better Alright, fair enough.
unidentified		And my second question is, with that point you made about the show Narcos, how people can see that to picture Pablo Escobar, and then it may cling to that, I find that in the internet age, certainly historical inaccuracies and stuff may come up in shows and movies, but They'll be derided, and that information can be spread online, whether that's like the trivia page of IMDb where they say, oh, this was historically inaccurate, or in a movie review or something.
unidentified		And I wonder, in the internet age, would it become that much more difficult to influence people's perceptions of those events, given how much more agency and access to information they have?
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		This is an interesting thing about it, as you put it, the internet age, because obviously there is a lot of information out there, but because there's a lot of information, it doesn't necessarily mean that people are any better at deciphering it.
		What I've certainly seen with the internet is obviously you can go and find the truth behind it and the more complicated backstory to it, but also what I've seen, particularly with the sort of advent of social media, is a rush to judgment.
		is where people have got to solve this incident or have their opinion out
		as quickly as possible and then these people tend to start making statements
		and aligning themselves to positions where it's very very difficult to sort of
unidentified		back out of it so it's a strange one really, you've also got this sort of
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		mockingbird type stuff whereby the source of the information can seem like to be
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		credible but in actual fact it would be disinformation or something
unidentified		like that so the thing about the internet is it's
		It's increased a lot of things, and it's decreased a lot of things.
		To be quite honest, there's no fact that's on the internet that you couldn't find in a book somewhere.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		It's just the ease with which you can access that information.
unidentified		But because of that, you can access lots and lots.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		So it's a bit of a double-edged sword, to be quite honest.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		As you say, you can certainly find information, but that doesn't necessarily mean that people will be motivated to do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, all that said, if you don't mind, thank you, Colin.
		A very good call again.
		Is the internet, on balance, a good thing?
unidentified		Or...
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		It depends.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it certainly seems to encourage quite negative behaviour.
unidentified		Um, as you were talking about earlier, you know, people start getting into huge rows and- Oh, they do, they do, they do.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Like vitriol and stuff like that.
unidentified		Yes.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		And, and it encourages trolling and it encourages- Oh, yes.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		A certain degree of showing off and such like that.
unidentified		Um, but also, it, it, it, it's an incredible- There's an English comedian that made a, a, a, a statement about this.
		He said that the internet is the most Fabulous means of communication ever devised, and yet we use it for sending pictures of funny cats.
		Smartphones, you know, you can use smartphones to explore all the galleries in the world.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		You could go around and look at every Grandmaster painting in your lunch hour, but you don't.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		You go on an app for a gambling site, or a hilarious Scarface soundboard, or something like that.
unidentified		So, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do know, actually.
		All right, to the phones, and let's make it you.
		Hello, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi, I'm calling from Washington State.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Yeah, that last caller you had talking about the unity participation thread, it sounds like he was the last pitch to be in PE.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry, the last what?
unidentified		He sounded like he was the last to be pitched in PE.
		No comment.
		Sounds like he was calling from his cut shed while Jamal was inside in his house with his wife, probably making participation unity awards or something.
		Anyways, you know this experiment you have of hiring a foreign poster on our Belfast fan site to be producer.
		I don't think it's working out.
		Some of these guests are, I don't know, I don't understand the mind control between indoctrination, how that's a link.
		To me they are two separate things.
		Boy, I disagree completely, and my producer did a great job.
		I think she's utterly superior.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In fact, I'll go beyond that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think we've had better shows in this incarnation of the show, a large degree of it, due to the production staff, Heather, than we've had in any show I've done in any year past.
unidentified		How about that?
		Okay, I'll take that.
		I just want to know, I'm really just trying to understand the difference between, because to me, mind control is a very specific, and it exists.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh no, it's not very specific.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Unless you're talking about, you know, the people that fed LSD and programs of that sort, mind control is not very specific at all.
unidentified		In fact, it's how would you put it neil it's actually it
unidentified		well i i i i can see what you're saying and and to sort of to go back to our believes mark uh...
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		was asking about my train canada is a figure yes like if you go if you actually by the blue ray of the
		monterey canada is an essay and i actually wrote that discuss all the
		different things that certainly are techniques that
		uh... that dick yes control the individual for example
		uh... ross addy was experimenting with that you can you can
		tracking emotions a rage and has a specific uh... e g output you can put on
		a microwave you can find a person sure they will respond and experience and
unidentified		feel that emotion and there's nothing that you can do to stop it
unidentified		Also, if you look at, say, certain assassins.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		So, you're absolutely correct.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		There is a degree of personal mind control.
unidentified		But I never really finished it.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Right at the beginning, basically, mind control runs the gamut all the way from truth serums to Manchurian candidates to propaganda and social indoctrination for social control.
		Essentially, that's the point of civilization, is a few people have to control a writhing mass.
		Now, whether that's through fair or unfair means, there has to be a certain degree of what you could be considering mind control, certainly the tacit agreement that these people who are in charge are allowed to be in charge, that there are certain societal acceptances and there are certain indoctrinations that go through, say
		the news media or just... what it's called is called the engineering or
		the manufacture of consent which is basically the organizing of what is considered
unidentified		acceptable within a society. Got it, but that's a more subtle form
art bell ▲ ● ▼		as you mentioned there are very direct forms but they're in the great minority and they might be done to
		achieve a certain specific goal
		for the people I know you think that benefit but the larger mind control
		is a great general thing that is not very obvious at all
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		For example, communism.
		We could look at, particularly in, say, Cold War times, and look at, say, the Stalinistic communist regime, and we could go, wow, look how mind-controlled they are.
		That's in fact how mind-control got started, or got its official funding, was because American GIs were denouncing their patriotism, and turning themselves over to the Koreans, and basically saying that they believed communism was actually the better system.
		And the excuse was that they've been, Mind Control, they've been brainwashed or indoctrinated.
		Brainwashing, the actual phrase, comes from a CIA agent called Edward Hunt that wrote a book called Brainwashing in Red China.
unidentified		So you could see that.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Or, for example, how the propaganda of the Nazis allowed them to commit such acts or something.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		So that would be what I mean by a societal brainwashing on Mind Control.
unidentified		All right, one more thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead.
unidentified		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, sure.
unidentified		A-L-M-A-O.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, why not?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Alright, so to Skype and David, hi.
unidentified		Hi, Art Bell, glad to have you back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		Neil Sanders, nice show.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		Shout out to Dave McGowan.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
unidentified		My question is, and I know we're short on time, and I will take my answer off the air, but a connection between the Illuminati and Super Bowl halftime shows.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I knew that one a long time ago, but go ahead.
		Expand, Neil.
		The Illuminati and halftime shows.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Again, it's not my particular forte, but I'm aware of it.
		The suggestion is that, basically, the halftime shows seem to have a certain occultic bent and themes that run through them that can only be understood.
		They seem sort of, you know, very, very bizarre on stage, but if you understand, say, mystery religions or esoteric symbolism or that sort of thing, certainly seem to Hit certain points again and again and again.
		I'm not sure about this.
		I mean, like, I've obviously seen things by people like Freeman and Vigilant Citizen and stuff like that.
		Some of them I agree with more than others.
		Some of them I wonder how much say the actual artist has in any of this.
		And I think sometimes it's misdirected.
		You know, people like say, oh, Jay-Z's in the Illuminati.
		I very much doubt that.
		Yeah, right.
		It's certainly there.
		It's strange.
		It's there.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		Laurel Canyon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I really can't help you guys.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I usually use Halftime for bladder relief.
unidentified		Then you missed Janet Jackson's nipple.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, I didn't because they replayed that a million times.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, right.
unidentified		Well, anyway, thank you Art.
unidentified		I'm over the two drink maximum, so I'm out of here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much for the call.
		That is a Friday night, by the way, rule.
		You're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hey Art, how are you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fine.
unidentified		I'd like your opinion about what's going on.
		You know what?
		You spoke about the Illuminati.
		They've been behind everything from day one.
		Of course.
		If you look at the dollar bill, they're on the back of that.
		The MI5 crest, they're on that.
		Tavistock is a branch of them and you know what they were used for.
		I mean they created the Beatles and they created the Rolling Stones.
		And why is this guy, William Shears Campbell, allowed to impersonate the immortal Paul McCartney?
		I just don't understand it.
		Why people aren't outing him.
		Oh, you're talking about the British Union's replacing Paul McCartney?
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Oh, right. Again, I've heard about it. I don't know. I've seen the various bits about it.
		There's a gentleman called, oh, his name's escaping me, Nicholas Kellerstrom, who's apparently
		bringing out a book about it. But I'd have to read that to sort of pass comment. I could
		understand. Now, here's the thing, right, OK? I don't hold a strong opinion one way
		or the other, to be quite honest. I could understand why.
		There was a...
		There's a television programme in England called Blue Peter, right, okay, and it's for children, and they had a dog on there called Petra, and this dog died, and rather than, like, you know, traumatise the children of the nation, they replaced it with a lookalike dog, um, to, you know, to maintain the brand of Blue Peter, for want of a better explanation.
		So, I don't know either, so I'm just going to move on.
unidentified		Hello there, David.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Your turn with Neil.
unidentified		Hello.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		bigger brand than uh... blue peter so i could see how that that they think they
		might work as to whether that that's true and i i i i think that you yourself you seem very
		very sure of that uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		i don't know i don't know either so i'm just gonna move on uh... hello
		there david your turn with neil
		hello going once going twice
		gone people you cannot leave your devices on like that that. If all we hear when you call is that, it's very, very
		bad. Hi, on the phone, you're on the air. Hello there. Going once, going twice, go on. Hi,
unidentified		on the phone, you're on the air. Yeah, I was just wanting to speak with Neil and I'm
benton in arkansas ▲ ● ▼		with you on that. There's a lot of people thinking that the Illuminati is causing all
		this stuff, but this really goes back to polarity.
		This whole world is built on polarity.
		I mean, positive, negative, male, female, charge and discharge, science and religion.
		And the bigger powers that be, we've been told time and time again that we are controlled by principalities and powers.
		Just like, you know, well, for example, you remember the Chick-fil-A event with the homosexuality thing?
		Does anybody remember that?
		Yeah, so this guy gets on and says, you know, I'm against homosexuality.
		And then there's a war.
		Everybody's divided.
		And even the people that aren't divided, they're forced to choose a side or they work for the side that the other ones don't like.
		Right?
		But who profited from that whole event?
		There were lines in Chick-fil-A backed up all the way back and pushed out to the interstate where I live.
		And that's how they control people.
		You pick a side.
		Choose a side.
		White, black, Islam, Christian.
		It's that easy.
		It's that easy.
		They do it on the internet.
		They do it everywhere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		True enough.
benton in arkansas ▲ ● ▼		I mean, wouldn't you say?
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		You're absolutely right.
		I think it's very potent.
		I think people understand that people find comfort in tribes and so they manipulate certain situations to Force people in one direction or another, as you stated.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Gentlemen, I am sorry.
		We are out of time.
		It's that simple.
		We're out of time.
		The show has an ending point, and this is it.
		Neil, would you like to promote anything?
		A website?
unidentified		A book?
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, if people would be kind enough to... I have two books, Your Thoughts Are Not Your Own, Volume 1 and 2.
		They're available on neilsandersmindcontrol.com.
		I'm also on Facebook, which is probably the best place to get hold of me if you want to ask me a question or something like that.
		Despite my spending quite a long time decrying the media.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was going to ask.
		You better check.
		You may or may not still be on Facebook.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, kind of.
		I don't tend to get on there all the time, but I'll answer a question if you send me one or whatever.
		And yeah, you can also get in touch with me via the website.
		And the website's got, like, sort of previous interviews that I've done on there and such like that as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, buddy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's been a pleasure, and we'll do it again.
neil sanders ▲ ● ▼		It's been an absolute pleasure for me, too.
unidentified		Thank you very much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much.
		Good night.
		Neil Sanders, all the way from Great Britain.
		Thank you all for participating, and we will be back tomorrow night.
		You're listening to Midnight in the Desert.

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