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Nov. 30, 2015 - Art Bell
02:22:44
Art Bell MITD - Ken Gerhard Flying Humanoids
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From the high desert and the great American southwest, I bid you all good evening, good
morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be in the world's 25 time zones.
Each and everyone covered like a blanket by this program, Midnight in the Desert.
My name is Art Bell.
Rules of our program is so simple.
No bad language, and one call per show.
Max.
It's going to be an interesting night tonight.
We're talking about flying cryptids.
If you don't know what that means, stay tuned.
We'll fill you in.
Our president, as is at Climate Talks, In France, trying to keep, along with the rest of the world, THE world from getting too hot to handle.
Which would mean 3 degrees Celsius.
Can you imagine 3 degrees Celsius?
We'd have water everywhere.
I've got to tell you, what is going on in France, I hope, is mostly about what's going on in Syria.
The situation in Syria is really scaring the hell out of me.
And should scare you too.
And I hope that's what they're actually talking about.
Even though climate warming is certainly important, having people to worry for is also important.
And the Russians have now installed this incredible new missile battery.
These missiles are capable of flying at Mach 5.
Hitting something at Mach 5.
They are missiles that disperse other missiles.
Very, very high-tech.
As good or probably better than what we have.
Now, as you know, Turkey, a NATO member, has shot down a Russian jet.
They are not going to apologize for it.
And because of that, borders close, gas gets turned off, parts of Turkey and all kinds of terrible things are happening between the Russians and the Turks.
And that's bad enough.
But I'm telling you with the mix, it's the devil's mix in Syria.
And what we have in Syria right now, in my opinion, Is a soup that could end up cooking to a boil and becoming World War 3.
I know that's scary.
But I'm gonna tell you, I'm keeping my eye on it.
And the fact that Turkey shot down a Russian plane, bad.
Not yet World War 3, right?
But keep in mind, those of you who haven't been around for a long time, we have a treaty with Turkey.
And if Turkey were to really begin mixing it up with the Russians, we have an obligation, a duty, a treaty-bound duty, to come to Turkey's... come help them, right?
So, if it really gets bad, here's what you should watch for.
If you hear of other warplanes getting shot down, if you hear of a US jet getting shot down by the Russians, And they haven't put those things there for nothing.
I mean, there are French planes flying and bombing, Russian planes flying and bombing, U.S.
planes flying and bombing.
There's bombing going on all over the place over there.
So, if you begin to see awful things happen, like a U.S.
plane getting shot down, or a couple of U.S.
planes, or a U.S.
plane and a Russian plane getting into a fight, Or Turkey shooting down more Russian planes, or an assault of some kind on Turkey, or perhaps somebody's asset at sea gets clobbered.
If you see something like that begin to happen, take notice, because that would be the opening salvo of World War III.
If that happened, I would pack my family up and be off to Southeast Asia as quickly as I could.
Not that I think that would help much, In the case of World War III, I'm supposing that nobody much cares about Southeast Asia.
So all I might succeed in doing is, you know, having a slow, painful death due to radiation.
But I'm trying to drive home to you how dangerous what's going on in Syria is right now.
To you.
I understand this treaty.
The NATO Treaty.
We have no choice.
If Russia were to attack Turkey in some meaningful way, we would have no choice.
And how quickly could that escalate?
Well, the people that have studied the possibility of thermonuclear war think pretty quickly.
So I'll leave it at that.
Shoppers did a lot more on Cyber Monday than they did on, what is it, Black Friday?
People are starting to stay home And do their buying on the keyboard.
And I wonder what that's going to do to shopping centers, you know?
I mean, it's just too easy.
You can shop, you can click, you can compare, you can get the cheapest price, you can generally get free shipping, maybe no tax, who knows?
It's quite a deal.
Eventually, we're all going to just stay home.
Now, I told you this story would make the bigger news, and it has.
Fox News reports that astronomers in Australia have picked up an alien radio signal, notice how I emphasized alien, from space for the first time as it occurred.
The signal or radio burst was discovered on May 15th, 2014.
It was just being reported by the Monthly Notice of the Royal Astronomical Society, the burst identified within 10 seconds of its occurrence, said Emily Petroff, a doctoral student from Melbourne's Swissburn University of Technology.
The importance of the discovery was recognized very quickly and we're all working very excitedly to contact other astronomers and telescopes around the world to look at the location of the burst.
Now, to give you some idea of the strength of the burst, it released in a few milliseconds as much power as our sun does in 24 hours.
The first one actually was discovered back in 2007, but always after the fact.
Now they're hearing it real time.
One of them was a double burst.
So, could it be aliens?
Yes.
I wouldn't get really excited about it, according to Petrov at this point, but they think it could also be coming from natural sources.
So we have now had two things to get pretty excited about, more so than at any time that I've done broadcasting.
And that goes back, as you know, a very, very long way.
So between the megastructures, which by the way, despite NASA's attempt at talking about a comet swarm, which is a possibility, still remain every bit as much a mystery as the day they were announced, as now do these radio signals.
So we have now had two instances of possible alien contact, Or, I guess I should say, recognizing the fact that they are there in a month.
And I went decades waiting for something like that.
All right, coming up in a moment, Ken Gerhard is a widely recognized cryptozoologist.
He's a field investigator for the Center for Foreign I almost heard a cheer go up.
The Loch Ness Monster, the Chupacabra, enigmatic winged creatures and werewolves.
for several anomalous research organizations.
He has traveled the world searching for evidence of legendary beasts, including Bigfoot.
I almost heard a cheer go up.
The Loch Ness Monster, the Chupacabra, enigmatic winged creatures and werewolves.
In addition to co-hosting the History Channel TV series, Missing in Alaska, that's an interesting one,
we will ask about that, Ken, has appeared in Monster Quest,
featured in the History Channel special, The Real Wolfman, as well as Legend Hunters, Unexplained Files, Paranatural,
Weird or What?
Ancient Aliens, Monsters and Mysteries in America, Ultimate Encounters, True Supernatural,
and The Monster Project.
Bye.
Born on Friday the 13th of October, what a day!
Ken has traveled to 26 different countries on six continents, as well as virtually all of the U.S.
An avid adventurer, he has camped along the Amazon, explored the Galapagos, hiked the Australian Outback, and has visited many ancient and mysterious sites from Machu Picchu to Stonehenge.
Here, in just a moment, We'll come Ken, and he's gonna talk about cryptids.
Very, very interesting cryptids.
So, stay right where you are.
How do you feel about monsters, huh?
Tonight, we will bring you monsters galore.
Take a seat, grab a cup of coffee, beverage of your choice, and get ready because here it comes.
You know I need ya.
Oh, Lord, and I.
Oh To reach Midnight in the Desert via Skype worldwide, if on a computer, please be sure to use a headphone mic and call MITD-51.
That's MITD-51.
And here, as promised, Ken Gerhardt.
I guess that's right.
Gerhardt?
Is that Gerhardt?
Is that right, Ken?
Yeah, Gerhardt.
Gerhardt.
Okay, good, good.
Welcome to Midnight in the Desert.
Well, thank you, Art, and please allow me to say that it's definitely an honor and a pleasure to be here speaking with you this evening.
Great to have you.
So, you're here to talk mainly, I guess, about cryptids, right?
Flying cryptids, for the most part.
Yeah, that's been kind of a focus of my research through the years.
You know, the field of cryptozoology is vast and it's expanding and evolving.
It's a movement that's been around for a while and it encompasses a lot of really strange, bizarre and unknown creatures.
But I found that the flying cryptids are often neglected by researchers and investigators, my colleagues.
So I've, you know, I've kind of been on that particular trail for a number of years now, and I've got to tell you, I have accumulated a surprising number of accounts from very credible people who have seen flying creatures that are not recognized by science.
In a number of forms.
When we advertised this, we said flying Humans.
Now, I guess that's a little, is that a little misleading, or, because these things, is that misleading?
Well, here's the conundrum, because a flying humanoid, and keep in mind that the field of cryptozoology was, it was a movement that was started by actual zoologists, so it's based on hard science, the fossil history, and so forth.
So the notion of a flying humanoid, it doesn't, it doesn't really Fits squarely in there, you know what I mean?
But we do investigate these things as cryptid researchers, because somebody has to.
And, you know, as I mentioned, there are literally hundreds of documented sightings of these flying humanoid beings, and I imagine that those only are scratching the surface.
Well, there you go.
Flying humanoids.
You just said it.
So, humanoid-like.
Not exactly totally humans.
But humanoid-like, or partly humanoid.
And a good example would be, before the show I had Ken look up, because I didn't want to spring it on him, Aswang.
A-S-W-A-N-G.
My wife, as you know, is a Filipina, and she is from the southern island of the Philippines, where everybody, EVERYBODY, believes in the Aswang.
And if you guys out there in the audience go to Google, And you put in Aswang, A-S-W-A-N-G, and then click on images on Google.
You can kind of scroll down and you can see all these different photographs, as Ken did prior to the show, and an awful lot of them, to me, look like what we're talking about Tonight.
Now, when I tell you my wife believes in the Aswang, I'm not kidding.
I mean, she is scared to death of this creature, and when you see it, you'll understand why.
So, Ken, when you see the photographs that, you know, depict the Aswang, what do you make of it?
Well, the Aswang is actually, it reminds me of similar creatures that are reported in other diverse cultures around the world.
Uh, for example, um, on the African island of Pemba, there's something known as the Papa Bawa.
Which is basically a vampire-like creature, not human, nobody really knows, but it flies in, in the dark of night, and attacks, and kills, and eviscerates, and people on that island are very terrified of the papabao, to the extent that in the 1990s there was actually a case of mass hysteria on that particular island.
So, of course in Mexico, very close to where I live, we have the chupacabra.
Of course.
I don't know where you are.
You're not in Mexico, right?
south of the border. Oh, you know what? I don't know where you are. Are you, you're
not in Mexico, right? I'm in San Antonio, Texas. San Antonio, well you're close. Okay.
Mm-hmm. I went to basic in San Antonio, so I know exactly where you are. Absolutely.
So, you know, again, it's kind of the interesting thing about taking a global perspective and look at these flying humanoid creatures is there are many similarities in different cultures around the world.
The fear is very real, as you indicated.
The descriptions do vary.
And, you know, that is the really interesting part.
Well, in the case of the Aswang, unfortunately what it does is find young Newly pregnant women, and it takes the fetus from them.
It's pretty horrible, pretty horrible.
And my wife believes that she heard one on her roof trying to get in, trying really, really hard to get in.
And it is, I believe, unique to the Philippines.
But as you mentioned, each culture seems to have their own, no matter where you go around the world.
So there has to be a reason for it.
Earlier you used the word mythological, and to me that implies not real.
But somewhere at the beginning or the middle or the end of all these things that are cooked up around the world that we believe could be flying and could be killing, there is a germ of truth somewhere.
Gotta be.
Well, absolutely.
And, you know, you hit the nail on the head there.
It's really about perspective, isn't it?
Because many of the remarkable animal discoveries of the past century started out as, quote-unquote, myths.
The mountain gorilla, the giant squid, the Komodo dragon, the giant panda.
I mean, all of these animals were considered mythological, except to the people, of course, that lived in those particular areas and were familiar with the
animals, but to western science they were considered mythological.
So, cryptozoology is all about kind of bringing the shroud, the veil of mythology down
and revealing that grain of truth behind each myth.
Okay, let's start with the big hundred pound gorilla, so to speak, in the US.
And that's Bigfoot.
I mean, I can do show after show after show on Bigfoot.
I talked to a lady in Texas who literally lives adjacent to and with Bigfoot.
That's big stuff here, and people absolutely believe it, and I see why.
How does that fit in to the cryptid?
Of course, he doesn't fly, but otherwise, very cryptid-like, right?
Well, Bigfoot really represents cryptozoology art, as do his cousins around the world, the Yeti or Abominable Snowman of the Himalayas, the Yeren of China, the Yowie of Australia.
Essentially, man-like forms, hominids, and evidently of a subhuman, you know, sort of an ancient subhuman type.
So, from a zoological standpoint, it makes perfect sense Listen Art, for thousands of years there were several different forms, subspecies of humans that were living alongside each other.
So why would the present be any different?
You say sub-human, sub-human.
We're not really sure of that, are we?
In other words, if Bigfoot is a real McCoy, we kind of, you know, I've had people on that have played Bigfoot talking to each other.
And it sounded very intelligent.
It sounded like a real language.
And we say subhuman, but we don't really know enough to say subhuman.
Maybe they're smarter than we are.
Maybe dolphins are.
Well, that's a fair point.
I can't say.
So perhaps, yeah, that wasn't the right vernacular.
But my point being that there were things that looked very similar to Bigfoot in our fossil history.
We know that lived for sure hundreds of thousands of years ago during the mid Pleistocene Epoch.
So why could those beings not be around today?
Well, they absolutely could.
Uh, the question is, and a big one always is, how do they stay... Actually, they've got to be pretty bright if they can generally be unseen.
Mm-hmm.
I would say.
And that speaks to your point.
That speaks to your point.
They are, presumably, they are highly intelligent.
They're not merely apes.
Uh, all of the major apes, great apes have been discovered as of 1902.
So, uh, these are hominins, probably, you know, our closest, obviously our closest relatives on the planet.
Um, there have been indications of potential language, of basal language.
There have been indications of sort of a Rudimentary tool use in terms of you know stones and rocks no indication that they use fire But it's my personal belief that a lot of these These could be adaptations that are basically That these beings have evolved to avoid contact with humans that we they deem us as their primary competition And thus they've chosen to live in the most remote areas They've chosen to live in
kind of a nocturnal lifestyle, they seem to move around a lot at night
and they are very skillful and adept at avoiding contact with us
uh... do you think there is any question at all about
Bigfoot being a reality?
I'm convinced Art that Bigfoot is a reality I'm convinced, too.
The million-dollar question is, what is it?
There's a mountain of evidence there, a mountain of evidence, and most people that are sort of mildly interested probably aren't acquainted with all of the evidence, but if you immerse yourself in the subject matter and you combine thousands of documented eyewitnesses over the years, All of the legends, the global legends around the world that correspond, very consistent.
And then you factor in the footprints that have been cast and the Patterson film.
Oh, by the way, how do you come down on the Patterson film?
The first time I saw the Patterson film art, on an instinctive level, I thought, that's
I mean, the movements are so fluid and natural.
I've watched it, obviously, countless times throughout the course of my life, and it always comes back to the fact that we're talking about an era, 1967, when costume technology was not that advanced.
And if you compare the movements and the size and the bulk of the figure in the Patterson
film, the fluidity of this creature, you can actually see its muscles moving and flexing.
The hair flow patterns are very natural.
All of it works in concert together.
And you know, and then if you go and look at any movie from that time period, like the
Planet of the Apes movies, and you realize how, you know, primitive costume technology
was in those days, you know, I'm convinced the Patterson film is real.
I guess it'll always be kind of inconclusive.
No one's going to be able to prove it either way.
They've never produced a suit.
But then again, the creature got away.
It did leave footprints, and so that kind of added to the evidence as well.
Ken, you know what really bothers me?
If we were to get the equivalent of the Patterson film today, and we got it digitally, Nobody would believe it.
And I say that because we live in a time of CGI that is so good that it can be made to be better than the real thing.
Because they get all the exact angles they want.
I saw the recent earthquake film.
Do you see that?
San Andreas?
No.
That was the king of CGI.
They destroyed California.
And it was so real That, you know, you were sitting on the edge of your seat.
I mean, that's how good CGI is.
So, if we got a modern equivalent to the Patterson film, I think that people would shoot holes in it because it's just so easy now to fake.
Not then, but now.
Yeah, absolutely.
And for that reason, I actually disregard a lot of the photographic evidence, or I should say I debunk a lot of the photographic evidence that I'm given these days, because a lot of it has been manufactured.
You know, it is very easy for someone with the skill and the software to devise something like that.
But in 1967, that wasn't the case.
And, you know, Patterson, people that knew Roger Patterson thought he was a stand, you know, he was a bit of a character, but he was a very simple man.
And, you know, I honestly don't think that he had the resources and the mind to conceive of a hoax that brilliant.
And, you know, furthermore, Art, there have been physical anthropologists that have studied that film, and much smarter than I am.
Uh, and experts in biomechanics who've studied it and have determined that the figure in the film is moving in a very non-human fashion.
Its mode of locomotion, although it is bipedal, is very different from a human's.
And it actually corresponds exactly with what you would have to have to propel a bipedal hominid that weighs several hundred pounds through those forests.
Okay.
Alright, well, we're coming up on a break, Ken, but I want you to think about something during the break, and I ask this of everybody who talks about Bigfoot, and these kinds of creatures, frankly, in general, and that is, if you were, I don't know, out in the forest somewhere, and you saw a Bigfoot, there it is, you've got a high-powered rifle, You can actually settle for once and forever the fact that, you know, Bigfoot is real.
You can be the king of cryptozoology forever.
All you've got to do is squeeze that trigger and take it down.
And the whole thing gets settled.
Would you pull that trigger or walk away?
This is Midnight in the Desert.
This is a video of a man who was in a car accident.
Midnight in the Desert doesn't scream calls.
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That's 1-952-CALL-ART.
Ken Gerhart is here.
He's a cryptozoologist.
He talks about these things that we discuss so frequently here on the air.
Right now it's Bigfoot.
Before we get back to it, I want to read something from Dave.
I won't give Dave's last name.
Dave says, boy, it'd be stupid to claim treaty obligations or even think about them when Turkey is the aggressor.
You'll soon see NATO dissolve over this, guaranteed, Art.
Dave, you don't understand, buddy.
NATO is a locked-in group.
And NATO's not going to dissolve.
And if a NATO country is attacked, Dave, we're at war.
You need to understand that.
We're at war.
And you need to understand what that means.
I really think an awful lot of today's generation doesn't have a clue.
They don't have a clue about our treaty obligations, the ones that we're really stuck with, and the ones that I guess we could let slide.
It could happen.
All right, Ken, welcome back again.
And so I gave you the big question.
There it is.
You're out in the middle of the woods.
You've got them in your sights.
You've got a high-powered rifle.
You can settle this question for all of humanity.
You drop the Bigfoot.
You bring him in, have him examined.
You are the king, as well as the villain, of all of cryptozoology.
What would you do?
Well, that is definitely a hot-button topic in the field of Bigfoot.
Kill or no kill is the debate that's been going on for years.
You know, honestly, Art, I think several years ago, when I was kind of getting started in the field, I would have absolutely pulled the trigger.
And not for selfish reasons, not for money, not for fame, but because I really felt that The only way to protect Bigfoot was to prove conclusively 100% that it existed.
And it has been estimated that there are probably at least several hundred, if not a couple of thousand, individuals in North America alone.
You would have to have that in order to maintain a viable breeding population.
So if you shoot one, you're not necessarily shooting the last one.
Where I'm sitting now, I think through the years that I've begun to view these beings
as truly sentient.
I know that I've read many accounts of people that have actually had them in their sights,
hunters and so forth, that have actually not been able to pull the trigger because they
said that the things just looked so darn human.
Could you live with yourself if you shot this thing and realized that essentially that is
a human form?
I would say right now in this place and time, no, I probably couldn't do it.
But I'm hopeful that someone will eventually find remains.
I mean, if these things are out there, they're dying of natural causes.
Well, okay, that's a really good place to stop you and ask the big question.
And that is, sure, if they are real in the same sense that we are, then there should be remains.
And we haven't found those.
So, you've got to at least entertain the possibility that there is sort of paranormal in some way or another, and I'm sure you get that a lot.
What do you think?
Yep.
I do actually have been asked that question a lot, particularly in recent years.
You know, I get the sense that we're kind of moving through sort of a rebirth of the spiritualist movement, where people are very much embracing the paranormal and sort of cosmic, otherworldly aspects to our Dimension and so forth.
So yeah, that is probably a strong argument why we haven't found a body that they're simply stepping out into another dimension or through a doorway or a portal.
There does seem to be a segment of Bigfoot sightings that have kind of really strange aspects where they've been shot at point-blank range and are impervious to bullets or where they're seen running and their tracks just disappear in the middle of nowhere.
You know, coming from a traditional cryptozoology background, I still like to kind of hedge my bets and think that these are essentially pre-human forms, hominids from an earlier age that are essentially still around, and they're highly intelligent.
And who's to say that these things aren't capable of burying their own dead?
You know, maybe that's one of the reasons we haven't found their remains.
Very true.
You know, they've obviously evolved and adapted behavior patterns to avoid being found by humans because they probably think that, you know, once they are found out, that'll essentially be the end of them.
Ken, have you actually interviewed somebody who has had a clear shot and taken it at what he thought was Bigfoot?
Yeah, I actually knew a gentleman or a group of gentlemen that were actively investigating and researching Bigfoot years ago, and according to them, they actually did take a shot and end up wounding one of the creatures.
And it's kind of a grisly story.
The thing got away, thank goodness.
I think maybe that was kind of a bit of an awakening for some of those gentlemen, because I sensed after the fact that they realized what they had done.
But perhaps they got caught up in the heat of the moment.
You know there have been accounts, this is interesting, you were talking about Asia earlier.
There actually have been a handful of accounts from Asia of Bigfoot type creatures being either captured or killed.
Oh yes.
Often times in a war scenario, I'm sure you've heard of the stories too, the Rock Apes of Vietnam and so forth.
So there could potentially be remains out there somewhere in another part of the world and boy I sure wish we could get our hands on that evidence.
Well, so do I. Let's move on, because really, we were here to talk about flying cryptids, and we have not yet touched on that.
And I guess a good place to begin would be Mothman, possibly?
Wow.
Well, Mothman is obviously one of the most enigmatic figures in the Annals of the Unexplained.
I mean, the physical description is pretty wild.
A grey man-like creature standing over six feet tall with immense wings attached to its body.
Mothman really is the quintessential monster.
I mean, it's almost like something that stepped right out of a science fiction movie.
Most eyewitnesses have described it as possessing a low-slung head with two enormous eyes.
And that's the most startling feature of the Mothman, these giant blood-red Embers, like automobile reflectors, that seemingly have a hypnotic effect over humans.
I really, really, really can't.
Go ahead.
I'm sorry, I don't like red eyes, Ken.
Not even a little.
Wow, so this is kind of hitting a nerve, huh?
These giant red eyes, are you envisioning that?
Yeah, I don't like that.
I really, really... There are a few things in life that scare me.
Red eyes, definitely one of them.
When I was a kid, I always envisioned red eyes in my closet, and I kept the door shut, the closet door shut, all the time for that reason.
Anyway, so Mothman is said to have red eyes, glowing red eyes.
Red eyes, and some people have claimed that, you know, when they were looking into these eyes that they basically lost, you know, all control, fell into a hypnotic trance-like state.
But the really frightening thing is that Mothman's behavior, there have been many accounts of Mothman chasing cars at speeds approaching 100 miles an hour.
His sole purpose seems to be to absolutely terrify human beings uh...
and i know obviously that the story is that there were literally dozens or
according to researcher john keel hundreds of sightings of the mothman beginning in november
of nineteen sixty six uh... with the scarberry mallet sighting
and then over the course of that next year uh... there were literally you know
dozens or hundreds of sightings of this mothman creature in and around
the sleepy little town of point pleasant west virginia if you have any specific
stories you can tell about
the appearance of mothman i'd love to hear them well uh... the seminal sighting involved uh... two young
couples roger and linda scarberry and steven and mary mallet
They were cruising around outside Point Pleasant in an area known as the TNT area, and the reason it's called that is back during World War II, there was actually a factory there that was Manufacturing TNT for the war effort and other chemicals.
It's a pretty wild place.
It's actually, to this day, there's about 60 to 100 concrete igloo-like structures where they store the explosives and these hazardous chemicals.
But by the 1960s, this was a hangout for the local teenagers, so they were basically just cruising through this area one night, November 15, 1966.
And suddenly, near an old abandoned building known as the Power Plant, they saw this figure.
And the description was, you know, six and a half, seven feet tall, giant bat-like wings coming out of his shoulders, and the giant red eyes.
And, of course, they saw this thing, and they were utterly terrified.
They took off back towards town, and to their horror and chagrin, the Mothman actually took off straight off the ground, and that's significant, like a helicopter, And chased them all the way back to the town of Point Pleasant.
I disappeared for an inch of town, and they were so terrified that they went to the local sheriff's office and burst in and filed a report.
And the sheriff who was on duty, Deputy Dennis Hereford, he actually knew the couple, the two young couples.
Point Pleasant is a very small town, of course.
Everyone knows everyone.
And he knew them to be fairly upstanding and honest citizens and thought that they were basically scared witless.
So they returned to the scene.
They didn't see the Mothman, but they heard some strange noises.
And that was it.
That kind of started the whole movement.
The next night, there were hundreds of people out at the TNT area looking for Mothman, and another woman named Marcella Bennett uh... was visiting some friends nearby the tea interior
claim that the mothman actually rose up behind her car when she got out of her car
uh... causing her to collapse in a trance like state and fall on top of her
infant child so those are the two seminal sightings of the mothman that that started the
entire affair the description uh... do we see uh... let's see is this mothman
we've got a couple of drawings i know on the site
And, um, god, they're ugly.
If you go to artbell.com and click on my guest's information, we've got a couple of things here.
I'm trying to figure out how such a creature, I mean most everything we know that has wings, takes gathering a little forward speed to get off the ground.
They can't go straight up, or can they?
No, you're absolutely right.
You have certain laws of physics and inertia and momentum and so forth that all flying creatures born on this earth typically have some type of forward thrust or movement.
Right.
And so again, many of the descriptions of Mothman was a very unnatural movement.
This thing took off straight off the ground without flapping its wings.
Essentially, it didn't flap its wings while in flight, it was more of a glider, and moved at just impossible speeds, you know, 100 miles an hour.
So, it definitely did not behave like anything that has evolved on this planet, anything that we can find in our fossil history.
Even Superman had to take quite a few steps and then abound, I believe, to get going.
I'm just kidding, but yeah, straight up, that's bothersome, and again, it seems to, you know, Lead toward the paranormal more than not.
If I pause like that, Ken, that's a chance for you to jump in.
Yeah, absolutely.
And, you know, again, as a cryptozoologist, I tend to look for the more pragmatic explanations.
And, for example, there's kind of an absurd theory out there that some cryptozoologists have put forward that what Mothman was, in fact, was some type of large owl that people mistook for something else and it created mass hysteria.
Well, certainly I don't believe that, based on all of the research that I've done.
The only conclusions I can draw, Art, is that Mothman is some type of spectral entity or apparition.
Whether you want to say or speculate that it is an extraterrestrial, whether it's an interdimensional being, a demonic, there are many different ways that people look at this phenomenon.
But, you know, essentially it is not of this Earth.
It's not a flesh and blood creature in the way that we know it.
You know, at least that's my opinion.
And then I guess that brings us to something known as the Owlman.
What is that?
Yes, Owlman is England's version of Essentially England's version of the Mothman.
It's a very similar creature in terms of it's often seen in the same location.
It has the, I hate to say it Art, it's got the large glowing red eyes once again.
Wonderful.
But the descriptions are somewhat different.
Owlman, which has been sighted primarily in the grounds and woods surrounding an old church
in Cornwall, England, known as Mount Anne Church.
It's right there on the coast.
And interestingly, the church is said to be built on an ancient earthwork.
But the Owlman is described as essentially man-sized and winged, but with grizzled gray
fur or feathers, pointy ears, a sneering, gaping black mouth, not a beak, and feet like
pincers or crab claws.
And what's interesting is that all of the encounters have been in the woods around this
old church, and virtually all of the witnesses, and the sightings began in 1976, in the spring
and summer of 1976, that all of the witnesses have been essentially teenage girls and one
adolescent male.
Now, my colleague John Downs in England has written a seminal book on the Isle of Man, What's interesting is that he believes that he's experienced a great deal of what we call psychic backlash while investing in this particular case.
All kinds of unfortunate things that happen to him.
And, you know, very reminiscent of the Mothman, where you have allegations of this curse, this death curse, that people that are involved in the Mothman have been harassed by the Men in Black or have met kind of mysterious and untimely ends.
Really?
Okay, so the implication of that would be that our own government, at some level, knows something about these things.
And I can't imagine they wouldn't.
I mean, if there are reliable reports of creatures that are able to fly, whether it's the American or British government, you would definitely think there would be an interest in finding out what they are.
I mean, who knows?
They could be weapons, right?
Turned into weapons on the battlefield.
So, the U.S.
government, British government, I would think would have interest in them, hence the men in black?
Yes.
You know, and John Keel, of course, who wrote the famous Mothman Prophecies book and kind of was there in the moment during the 1966-67 flat.
He certainly believed that there was government involvement, that his phones were being tapped, that he was being followed and harassed.
He spoke to many of the Mothman eyewitnesses that came forward, claimed that they were harassed and threatened into silence.
So there are that elements of the case as well.
Art, don't you think it's interesting that the Mothman, most of the sightings of the Mothman were in this TNT area, essentially a place that represented the manufacture of explosives and hazardous chemicals and other things that were going to be used in a war effort as well.
That's kind of a bizarre tie-in right there, I think.
Sure.
I don't understand the tie-in necessarily, but yes, it's interesting.
Of course it's interesting.
Do you have any speculation about why?
Well, you know, as I've researched a lot of these flying humanoid beings throughout history, I've found that there is an underlying belief that these beings, whatever they are, are essentially harbingers or portents of tragic cataclysmic events.
In the case of Mothman, you have the tragic collapse of the Silver Bridge, which occurred in December of 1967, right around the time Mothman was being seen, and interestingly enough, the sightings of Mothman You know, dramatically reduced after that.
You have, in antiquity, you have Pazuzu.
Pazuzu was a Sumerian, I'm sorry, an Assyrian winged humanoid type of figure that was often associated with famine and Drought and all of these horrible events.
And then, you know, going across the world to Scotland, you have something known as the Scree.
The Scree is a flying humanoid type of creature, kind of a hideous witch, similar to the Aswang, I guess, in some ways, that is said to overfly battlefields before many people have been killed and things like that.
So this underlying theme of these flying humanoids, whatever they are, are essentially omens.
Hold it right there, Ken.
We'll be right back.
I'm Art Bell.
You don't come easy. You don't come easy. You don't come easy. You don't come easy.
You don't come easy. You don't come easy. You don't come easy. You don't come easy.
Call Art, that's 1-952-225-5278.
Ken Gerhart is here, and he's a cryptozoologist, mostly talking about the cryptids that fly.
Perhaps a little misleading to say flying humans, but they are, in fact, partly human, actually.
Alright, so Ken, you're back again.
You said something that really caught my attention.
You said they're frequently regarded as harbingers of something awful happening or that's happened or whatever, right?
Yes.
I found that in antiquity, in different legends around the world, creatures that are depicted as being similar to the Mothman, and there are many examples, were greatly feared by those different local peoples because they represented a tragic event to come.
Alright.
Well, Keith, if you're listening, I'm so sorry to ask this again, but there was a ton of photography done around the tragedy that was 9-11.
Uh, Ken, I don't know if you've ever seen this photograph, but if you haven't, I'm gonna fix it so you can see it.
It was, uh, a photograph taken during the 9-11 tragedy, and it showed... God, I'm telling you, Ken, I can't get over it.
I'll never get over it.
It showed, uh, and you had a building as a reference for his eyes, this giant Prehistoric something-or-another, Ken, that was flying in the skies in New York while this was going on, and somebody caught it in a photograph, and if I can... Somebody will send Keith, or Keith hasn't put it up, whatever.
If we can get it up there, I'll get it up there, and you can take a look.
You're not by any chance familiar with what I'm talking about, are you?
I believe I've seen that photograph, yeah.
I'll have to see it again, maybe it'll jog my memory.
Well, I was going to ask, what is that thing?
It looks prehistoric.
Well, I've certainly heard allegations, unsubstantiated allegations, that Mothman or a Mothman-type figure was seen before 9-11.
The photograph, we're going to have to take a look at that.
Is that up yet?
Not yet.
He moves quickly, but not that quickly, so I'll keep an eye out for it.
Okay, we'll take a look.
That's interesting.
I'd like to see that, for sure.
Well, when you said Harbinger, I couldn't resist.
I've wondered for a long time what that is.
Alright, so I know you've got specific stories you can tell us about things that have affected people that you really think, you know, are real, really happened.
Things that really happened.
Any cases, and we've got the time, so if you've got some good cases, lay them on us.
Well, there's some classic cases, Art, that are pretty creepy and honestly very frightening.
For example, in 1956, in a place called Fall City, Nebraska, a gentleman, a farmer, who used a pseudonym, John Hanks, when he actually reported the event, obviously didn't want to be exposed, but according to this gentleman, this farmer, He encountered a being while working out in his field one day, and this thing basically overflew him at a height of about 15 feet, and the description is pretty chilling.
He said that this figure, who had a human-like form, would have been about 9 feet tall.
The wings were not actually organic wings, they were mechanical, sort of silver mechanical
wings with a row of lights going down them about 15 feet across.
And this being whatever it was, was operating these wings and flying with a control panel
strapped to his chest.
But the really chilling part was the description of the face.
He described the face as looking demonic with these blue watery eyes and wrinkled sort of
leathery skin and a scowling frown on its face.
And as he watched this thing, it just sort of hovered over him ominously and then kind
of took off.
Another one that I'm quite fond of for similar reasons refers to the extraordinary Bird Woman
of Da Nang, Vietnam.
and I'll see you next time.
And apparently, according to a marine by the name of Earl Morrison, he related this story to a UFO researcher named Don Worley.
During the Vietnam War, he was stationed along with two other buddies, and on top, you know, sort of on watchtower type situation, and they saw a figure approaching in the distance, and at first they thought it was a very large bat, but they realized quickly that this thing was much larger than any bat they had ever seen before.
And as this figure got closer and closer, they were able to make out that it was actually
the form of a nude winged woman, completely black in color, seemed to be covered in kind
of a black fur or hair-like substance, and bat-like wings, and that she essentially hovered
like right over, flew right over their heads, peering down at them kind of ominously, and
she seemed to be giving off kind of a green cast or a green glow.
So that was kind of a very unnerving experience that these three gentlemen, you know, they
had and what's really interesting again there Art is that you know we're talking
about a battle you know types of scenario so that you know these flying
humanoids are often reported around military installations
or over battlefields things of that nature but you know certainly not all the accounts are very old I
have a lot of modern accounts that I chronicle in my book
Encounters with Flying Humanoids and in fact there I continue to receive
accounts of these flying humanoid type creatures one of the most recent was a gentleman that lived out in
West Texas he got in touch with me I interviewed this gentleman over
the phone many times and he comes off as
extremely sincere and credible and what he tells me is that he was out one night
with his wife kind of looking at the stars and an approaching storm system and similar to the Bird
Woman of Da Nang they saw this figure approaching them and when
it got right over their heads he said it was essentially a man-like creature
with long flowing hair and giant black angelic wings.
And he said this thing would have stood about 10 or 14 feet tall.
It had very high cheekbones and a kind of a chisel hook to its face, facial features.
Wow.
And, you know, again, it soared right over their heads.
So, you know, those are just some examples, but, you know, there are many, many more.
Well, you know, again, I'm going to say this.
It may not seem like it, but if you could somehow control these creatures during battle, and you could make these things appear to your enemy, you know, listen, most of us feel that way.
Frankly, if I saw something with glowing red eyes, you know, hovering in front of me, I'd probably toss down whatever I had and go in the other direction.
And so, they would be a big asset to anybody who could control them on a battlefield.
No question about it, right?
Oh, yeah.
Absolutely.
And you know, there's also been speculation that these things are extraterrestrial in nature.
Could these be the familiars or the instruments of some higher intelligence, you know?
Probes, essentially.
Well, are there appearances associated with UFO sightings, that sort of thing?
Absolutely, Art.
Well, they are.
At the time period when the Mothman was being sighted in and around Point Pleasant, West Virginia, there were UFO sightings, strange lights in the sky that were being reported to the local law enforcement agencies, almost on a nightly basis.
In fact, if you go back and look at the newspaper archives at that time, you've got literally as many reports of strange flying lights and UFO-type objects as the Mothman itself around that same time period and in that same area.
Additionally, many of the flying humanoids that I've investigated in Mexico, and for some strange reason Mexico seems to be ground zero for the flying humanoid phenomenon, really a lot of reports coming out of Mexico, and a lot of those have been logged by UFO investigators that are essentially, you know, videotaping these strange flying humanoid creatures in conjunction or in areas where they've also videotaped Alright, since we're on that subject, are there any good videos or even fair videos of what we're talking about right now?
Something that would be a fly encrypted.
Has anybody caught it on camera or on video?
You know, in terms of the flying humanoids, there are several videos that can be found online, and these were made by Mexican UFO researchers, and these are referred to as Unidentified Flying Humanoids, UFHs.
Now, the videotape quality is not that great.
Essentially, what you're going to see in these videotapes are you're going to see a man-like figure.
I mean, you can definitely make out two legs hanging down, two arms hanging down.
But these are very different from the Mothman.
They don't have any wings or any visible means of propulsion.
But these figures, whatever they are, essentially hovering around or flying around high up in the atmosphere.
And they have been videotaped in many locations around Mexico going back to the year 2000.
and again in areas where UFOs have been reported as well.
So I do cover these in the book because they do seem to be related in many ways
to the Mothman type figure although they do not have wings or any visible way to fly.
They're just merely up there very high in the air flying around.
Since you're in San Antonio, please comment for me on the Chupacabra because
when I was on the air, you know, a decade or two ago, the Chupacabra thing was
actually going on at the time.
I saw some pretty awful pictures of what the chupacabra did, and pictures that were represented to be a chupacabra.
What do you know about that thing?
Well, that's one of the questions I get asked the most, because there seem to be many different things going on here.
The chupacabra is a case of composite identity, where one particular word or name is being
used as kind of a blanket to explain a lot of different weird things.
But obviously the original chupacabra originated in Puerto Rico during the 1990s when there
were a series of very grotesque livestock killings.
And the name chupacabra, the literal translation is goat sucker.
So it's a vampire-like creature and of course the initial descriptions that came out of
Puerto Rico and other Latin American countries describe this kind of a gargoyle-type creature,
bipedal with reptilian quality and giant eyes, right?
Right.
But here in Texas, over the past decade or so, there have been other animals that have been turning up that have been referred to as chupacabras.
They always make it into the newspaper or onto the local news channel.
Now, I've examined about a half dozen of these animals myself, the remains of these animals, and they are essentially They are grotesque-looking canids, or dog-like animals.
They are completely hairless.
They have kind of a rough, hide-type covering, almost like an elephant.
In many cases, they have abnormally large teeth, canine teeth or fangs, long claws, and so forth.
And they're very grotesque and ugly-looking.
And there have been allegations by some of the local ranchers and livestock owners that these dog-like animals are drinking the blood of their livestock.
That has not been substantiated scientifically, but because there is a very strong Mexican-American influence here in Texas and other parts of the southern United States, you have that cultural influence essentially, that crossover aspect where you have these strange-looking animals, predators that are showing up, and people are referring to them as chupacabras when they are in fact completely different From the creature, whatever it is, that was reported from Puerto Rico beginning in the 1990s.
Okay.
Now, whether it's a chupacabra or something with glowing red eyes, no thank you, are there any reports?
I have this feeling that if these things are perhaps demonic in nature, it seems like demonic things, ghosts, whatever, cannot actually harm, physically harm People, they can attempt to drive people into doing bad things, but they can't seem to actually manipulate in our physical universe.
And I wonder if that is true of these, these fine cryptids as well.
In other words, are there reports of people getting torn to bits by these things?
Or generally, do we not get reports of physical attacks?
Ah, well, another great question, Art.
Actually, and I address this in my book as well, there are no documented accounts of anyone actually being physically attacked by a flying humanoid or Mothman-type creature, although there are many, many accounts of Mothman, Owlman, and other flying humanoid creatures Chasing and terrorizing humans.
So, they do in fact seem to, for whatever reason, they want to terrify us.
They want to frighten us.
You know, I guess if you want to characterize that as demonic, then that's fair.
You know, this reminds me of an interesting sighting, a case that occurred fairly recently in 2006, and this refers to the man bat of Briggs Road, Wisconsin.
I'd leave you a photo of this up on your website.
Okay, wait.
I want to know which one it is.
The Man Bat.
Is that the first one or the second one?
It's the first one.
The first one.
Ugly as Sin.
Alright.
Go ahead.
Yes.
And that illustration, incidentally, is by Linda Godfrey, who I believe you had as a guest on your show.
That's correct.
That's her interpretation.
But according to Linda, who was the initial investigator, these two gentlemen of Native American descent were driving home one evening in a place called Holman, Wisconsin, which is very close to La Crosse.
And suddenly this creature that you see there dived out of the treetops and basically dive-bombed the pickup truck they were driving in.
And they described it as having a human-like form with bat-like wings, a hideous face with long fangs, and kind of a pronounced rib cage and long claws.
Well, this thing dive-bombed their pickup truck and took off and shortly thereafter they could hear this
ringing noise a very high-pitched ringing noise that actually
forced them to pull over to the side of the road where they both became violently
ill. Shortly thereafter they got home and began to experience all kinds of strange things
Their dog, which was normally very affable and friendly, was hiding and cowering under the bed.
Um, they were hearing strange noises, banging noises around the outside of their house as if something, some type of unseen force was banging on their walls and harassing them.
Okay.
So this is, you know, just an example of kind of the attachment aspect of the flying humanoid
phenomenon.
Not only are these flying humanoid creatures seemingly interested in terrifying and chasing
and scaring the bejesus out of people, but oftentimes there is a residual attachment
effect where people will actually experience all kinds of bad feelings and illness and
kind of heebie-jeebies after the event takes place.
Okay, in addition, you say that people who experience these things are frequently then
either questioned or harassed by men in black?
Okay.
Bye.
Well, this is something that has been documented by, or was primarily documented by, again, John Keel, author of Mothman Prophecies.
Now he, no one was in the thick of it like Keel.
He was actually there on the ground shortly after Mothman was first reported in Point Pleasant He interviewed many of the eyewitnesses, and according to Kiel, many of the eyewitnesses claimed that they were, in fact, visited by strange, men-in-black-like figures.
In fact, a woman named Mary Heyer, who was a local newspaper reporter there in Point Pleasant, claimed that a strange figure visited her at her office one time, and she said that he spoke in a strange, halting voice, almost as if English was a foreign language.
Excuse me.
And that he kind of had a fascination, a strange fascination, for sort of the mundane objects that were laid across her desk.
But the message was, in fact, very real, that he did not want her to be reporting these Mothman accounts in the local newspaper, and actually became kind of threatening in terms of his tone and demeanor and so forth.
Very MIB-like.
Yeah, that's really curious.
Very, very curious.
And I can only You know, if you sit down and try and imagine, well, why would our government or their agents be interested in this sort of thing?
Again, I go back to the possibility of their use in terrorizing an enemy.
That's all I can think of.
Or, if you want to get even a little further down the road of strange conjecture, it could be That in some government lab somewhere, they created these damn things.
Well, those are certainly two of the theories that have been suggested.
You know, that Mothman is some type of diabolical military experiment.
You know, that perhaps Mothman rose up out of the sort of the uh...
cosmic chemicals and uh... some of those other mutant kind of like a mutation
that kind of rose up there in point pleasant you know but
perhaps it was some type of intelligent design i also had a lady who called i think we were in an open
line segment or maybe it was
we were doing something on bigfoot and she said that some something like a bigfoot
actually ran into her car
In other words, she was going down the highway and this thing came from the side and hit, happened to hit the side, toward the rear of her car and there was a fair amount of damage.
Whatever it is got away, but it actually just apparently wanted to run into her car.
That's pretty weird, huh?
That is pretty weird.
I don't think I've heard of an account quite like that.
I've heard of many people who claim that Bigfoot-type creatures have chased their vehicles, similar to the Mothman, or jumped out at them, you know, sort of as they were changing a flat tire on the side of the road on a dark and lonely road, that type of thing.
Yeah, isn't that always the way?
You're on a dark, lonely road, your car's not running, and you've got a flying cryptid after you.
God, that's scary.
So, why so much in Mexico, Ken?
Well, I think a couple of reasons, possibly.
Mexico, of course, has, for those of you listeners that are familiar, and I'm sure many of them are familiar with the ancient alien aspect or tie-in to Mexico, you have all of these great civilizations that sprung up there, the Olmec and the Zapotec and the Aztec and the Maya, and, you know, civilizations that obviously had a very perplexing level of technology and mathematics and
knowledge of astronomy and different things like that. So, the inference of course is
that there have been perhaps extraterrestrial landing spots, I guess you would say, in
Mexico. Now, when I was investigating a flying humanoid-type creature just outside of Monterrey,
Mexico back in 2009, I was taken to a mysterious place known as La Huasteca, which is...
in the Sierra Madre Mountains just outside of Monterey.
And there in a kind of a sacred spot are these ancient pictographs on the side of this rock
wall that are thousands of years old.
Nobody really knows how old they are.
And they seem to depict strange circular objects flying around in the sky.
So that's just yet another example of why Mexico seems to have been a UFO hot spot for
probably thousands of years.
And of course in recent years you have many, many sightings of UFOs down there as well.
But there are many accounts of these flying humanoid creatures in and around Monterey,
in and around Mexico City.
And so Mexico just for whatever reason seems to be ground zero.
And I wish I could explain it better than that, Art, but it's a pretty fascinating place.
Well, whether it's Bigfoot or these flying cryptids, UFOs and Mexico, I wish we could pin all this down and come to some kind of conclusion about it, but it seems always just out of reach.
Just out of being able to actually prove something.
And yet, it keeps coming back and tantalizing us with appearances Showing us things, UFOs, God knows I've had my own sightings.
I think most people have and yet it just stays at arm's length from us in terms of actual proof.
Just like Mothman.
Yeah.
Just like Bigfoot.
All of these things share, that's why I think people like myself tend to say it's got to be In the paranormal category.
And for that matter, ufology, some of ufology may even be, because they disappear, they appear.
If you've seen one, you can't unsee it.
I mean, I've seen a UFO up close, too close, and I will never unsee that.
That'll be planted in my brain forever.
I know that other people who have not seen doubt, and even make fun of the whole thing, But it's going on, Ken, there's no question about it.
I have a feeling it's the same with these cryptids.
People are probably, and flying cryptids, they're probably even less likely to come out and admit to go to the police and make drawings or whatever.
Yeah, absolutely.
And it's, you know, it's very frustrating as an investigator, Art, because I, you know, coming from more of a scientific methodology or background, you know, one of the things you look for is discernible patterns.
Yes, of course.
And the flying humanoid phenomenon is so amorphous and ambiguous in nature, you have all of these different descriptions and different locations and mysterious motives.
But, you know, the one thing I can say for sure is that many, many people have encountered or seen these creatures.
I've interviewed many credible people with no reason to lie or make this up.
These have been very traumatic, life-changing experiences.
You know, going back to John Keel for a second, author of The Mothman Prophecies, I know I've mentioned him a few times here now, but he really does, you know, he really was kind of the father of this whole, you know, flying humanoid movement.
And, you know, he had A belief Kiel did that all the things that you mentioned, the UFOs, demonic activity and ghosts, even many of the cryptids, that those were all essentially manifestations of the same phenomenon.
And he referred to it as the cosmic trickster.
Sometimes he referred to it as the goblin universe.
And essentially what Kiel felt was that there was what he called an ultra-terrestrial intelligence something well beyond our realm of understanding that would
essentially manifest in all of these different forms that we refer to as unexplained phenomenon for reasons that
are probably far beyond our comprehension.
But certainly something that has to be contemplated.
You know, that there could be a force out there that is essentially toying with us in that manner.
Okay.
Well, you mentioned that, um, he was harassed by MIBs, right?
Men in Black.
And you, too, I would think, I mean, writing about this and investigating it the way you are, frankly, Ken, I would think that, uh, you might have had an experience or two With people coming to see what you're all about.
I mean, look what you're writing about.
So, anything happen to you?
Probably the strangest thing that's happened to me, Art, was when I was actually traveling to Point Pleasant to film a television show, a documentary on the Mothman one time.
I was sitting next to a gentleman on the airplane who looked like just kind of a young He's a clean-cut, all-American kind of guy.
He kind of struck up a conversation with me and began asking me where I was headed.
I said, Point Pleasant.
He essentially stated that that's where he was from and began asking me about the Mothman.
He seemed to just have a real kind of unusual interest in my motivation and why I was going to investigate the Mothman.
made every attempt and effort to kind of debunk it in different ways, you know, to kind of, I guess, take the
wind out of my sails, so to speak, which I thought was really strange coming from this
particular individual who, you know, it was just very out of context.
It wasn't really intimidating, but it was kind of a subversive way to, you know, distract me from my mission, so to speak.
I felt very uncomfortable, I have to admit.
Yes, well, as I mentioned earlier, when you've seen something like this, whether it's a cryptid flying or not,
and it seems not human or semi-human, and or you've seen something in our skies that doesn't
belong there and is completely inexplicable by any physics that we understand,
then you have to imagine one of two things.
Either, you know, they really are here, And, or, they have shared something with our government.
I mean, what I saw either was lighter than air, which I don't believe for a second, or was operating on some sort of anti-gravity system of some kind.
Hold on.
Hey, listen everybody!
Our public number, if you want to join in on this cryptid, flying cryptid conversation, our national number is now open at area code 952, 225-5278.
That's area code 952-CALL-ART.
Or, of course, on Skype.
Feel free to join us.
This is a good one.
And especially, I should say, if you've seen something like this.
Have you?
Don't be afraid to pick up that phone.
I'm Art Bell and this is Midnight in the Desert.
I'm Art Bell and this is Midnight in the Desert.
I've got a fast move, I've got a slow groove.
Oh my, my, my.
I want a man with a slow hand.
I want a lover that can keep the touch.
This is Midnight in the Desert.
To call the show if you're east of midnight, call 1-952-CALL-ART.
If you're west of midnight, call 1-952-225-5278.
That's kind of the mini talk.
That's kind of the mini-talk.
Let me give you the real thing.
Again, our national number, if you'd like to join in the conversation, is area code
952-225-5278.
Or, easier to remember, 952-CALL-ART.
Then there are other ways.
And I see no reason not to open these other lines.
So, if you're a first-time caller to the program, sure, come on ahead.
Area code 775-285-5800.
That's 775-285-5800 and...
Are you writing this down?
575, the area code, 208-7787.
Naturally, on Skype, as well, in North America, MITD-51.
code 575-208-7787. Are you writing this down? 575, the area code, 208-7787. Naturally on
Skype as well in North America, MITD51. Outside the country, it's MITD55.
Now, countries, I should say.
If you're not in North America, if you're, you know, out there somewhere, MITD55 is a free call from anywhere in the world.
It will connect you with Ken, and he is a cryptozoologist.
We don't get them on here frequently, so if you have a, you know, connection, With something in your past or knows something about flying, I don't want to say flying humans, but cryptids, anywhere in that area, please feel free to join us.
And let's bring Ken back.
Ken, you're back on the air again.
I don't know if Keith has yet found that photograph.
I really, really, really would like you to see it.
He might not have even been listening for all I know sometimes I think he sits there and and sort of half list listens to my show so Let's take a look see real quick.
I'm gonna fish around for that picture It's the darndest thing, but it had to do definitely with 9-11, and you know it was when you said Harbingers That it caught my attention.
Well, I don't see it yet.
Let me click on your stuff, and I've got a ton of calls for you here, Ken.
Awesome.
Oh, it is awesome.
No, I don't... Oh!
Oh!
Oh!
We've got it.
It's not a zoom-in picture.
Before, we had a zoom-in picture, and you could see the size of this damn thing.
If you look at your own, go down below your own pictures, the ones you provided, or the drawings, just below that, you will actually see this creature.
The zoomed in one is just spectacular.
But this is some kind of gigantic something, I'm telling you.
Are you on my site?
Yeah, yeah.
Oh, wow.
Look at the size of that damn thing compared to, I mean, it's way over on the other side of the building, for goodness sake.
That thing's monstrous.
Yeah, that thing is huge.
Yeah, it's huge.
You know what, this all potentially reminds me of art.
One thing that I've investigated besides the flying humanoid forms are the quote-unquote Thunderbirds.
And Thunderbirds are cryptids.
The name Thunderbird is derived from different Native American traditions of these enormous bird-like creatures, very different from the flying humanoids because they do appear to be either enormous birds with wing Uh, spans that are comparable to small airplanes.
Or some people have described them as actually looking very prehistoric.
Uh, like the, you know, pterosaurs, the pterodactyls.
Yep.
I wish we had the zoomed in picture of those reptiles.
If we had the zoomed in picture, you would look at that and you would say, I promise you, prehistoric.
Uh, and again, it was connected, uh, with 9-11.
We've got a lot of people want to talk to you.
I don't want to take up a lot of time, but I did want to point that out.
uh... when when you said that they frequently around wars and disasters and
all that sort of thing uh... so very quickly uh... let's
go first to start and say hi you're on uh... good evening
i'd just like to give a quick shout out to the people i'm listening to with over
on slash x and uh... i'm ash x
Indeed.
You'd rather, it's better you didn't.
I have a comment and a question for your guest.
Comment first in regards to why it seems to be a lot of flying creature sightings or a lot of these sort of cryptozoological?
Sightings in general in South America and Mexico is probably because you see, if you look at it anthropologically, a lot of these places were sort of, dare I say, paganistic Catholics.
Like, if you look over in the Philippines, they were colonized by the Spanish.
True.
And if you look in Mexico and Brazil, etc., etc., they were all colonized by Portuguese and Spaniards, and they were very lenient in their sort of conversion with the culture.
And I think that's why we see a lot more of these sort of mythical creature sightings because they sort of have that paganistic essence to their Catholicism.
And I wanted to know what your guests thought about that.
Really good question.
Why would you promote something that it's better I don't know about?
Wow, that's a very fascinating take and I guess I've dealt with that quite a bit because I've done a lot of research down in Mexico and the way I always explain it to people is that Mexico is a very traditional culture and a lot of that When you have traditional spirituality, a lot of times that does go hand-in-hand with paganistic and almost superstitious belief systems.
It's a matter of interpretation.
You're definitely onto something there from a cultural aspect, but you're working on the premise that people are essentially I don't want to say creating or fabricating, because I don't mean to insult you, but people are, from my experience and my research, these are real experiences.
So if you're saying it's a matter of perception or perspective, then I accept that.
But it certainly still does not explain the fact that many people are sighting and encountering these strange creatures, and there's really no scientific explanation for that.
I just have one more quick question.
It's also in relation to South American stuff.
In the last couple of years, there have been a lot of sightings coming online about gnomes, or goblins, some people would call them, but specifically, like, very small-sized humanoid individuals.
And I'll take the answer to that off the air.
But I was just wondering if you'd heard anything about those.
Thanks a lot, Art.
Have a good one.
See, he just, he ran away.
Uh, anyway, small goblins and stuff and gnomes.
You wanna comment on that one?
Yeah, gnome-like creatures.
You know, we just, um, the TV series that I'm currently co-hosting called Missing in Alaska, we actually did an episode.
There are these strange little gnome-like creatures that are greatly feared by many of the Native Alaskan people, the Inuits and so forth, and they have a variety of different names.
Their names are known as the Inchjeehawk or the Jinxiawk, the Inukins, but essentially they are characterized, it's very similar to the fairy lore of Europe, But they're literally terrified of these little goblin-like creatures that are said to be two to three feet tall, and they're, you know, they're borderline malevolent, kind of tricksters and mischievous, but on the same token, greatly feared by many of the Inuit people.
So, you know, it's just, as with many things within the field of cryptozoology, it's just fascinating you have all of these disparate worldwide traditions and cultures of Little gnome-like creatures and, you know, they're often portrayed as, you know, kind of sinister tricksters.
Nothing like the travel gnome.
No, not at all.
Completely different.
Okay.
First time caller line, you're on the air with Ken.
Hi.
Hello.
First time caller line, this is your big chance.
Going once, going twice, gone.
Uh, hi.
Winter Haven, Florida.
You are on the air.
Hey, Art.
How are you tonight?
I'm very well, thank you.
Hey, uh, I just wanted to ask Ken what he thought about, I heard this, uh, theory about, uh, certain UFOs, like, possibly not all, but, uh, you know, people, the things that they're seeing in the sky as being possible, uh, a biological organism that, uh, actually lives in the atmosphere.
And people are, because some of these UFOs are actually Yeah, I think it's a fair question, actually.
Things that live in our atmosphere, perhaps at very high altitudes, so we don't even notice them.
I mean, heck, the jet is up at cruising altitude, you barely even notice it when it goes over.
So, how about it, Ken?
Scientifically viable, I would say. I know in recent years there have been a number of studies done with high
elevation balloons and things where they have actually detected life forms.
There is life on the very fringe of our atmosphere in the upper stratosphere and so forth.
Now, obviously, microscopic is, you know, everything that's been found has been kind of on a microscopic level.
But, you know, nothing else illustrates the fact that, you know, life finds a way and you can potentially have life forms in places where you wouldn't expect it.
Now, you know, in terms of the you know, kind of living UFOs or organic UFOs, there have
been a number of accounts recently that I'm aware of, of these kind of manta ray shaped
creatures that are seen flying Very distinct and different from Mothman.
These are not humanoids, uh, but essentially they look like, you know, again, stingrays or manta rays that you would expect to see in the ocean, but people have reported seeing these things flying over the air in, uh, places like Maryland, Pennsylvania, Texas, and Florida, and so forth.
Nobody knows exactly what these things are.
Right.
Let me add something here.
I'm a drone owner.
I own a drone.
Pretty good size.
Uh, and...
Let me tell you, my friend, by the time that thing gets 150 to 100 feet into the air on a clear day, it's gone from sight.
You wouldn't even know it's there.
In fact, you can't even hear it.
The sound's gone.
It's gone.
It's just gone.
So, there could be things in our atmosphere at certain altitudes and we would never in a million years know it.
Yeah, absolutely.
I'm there, you know, and I'm hopeful that one of your callers will also talk about the vast and deep oceans of the world, because I think that's where you have the real hope for new discoveries of all kinds of fascinating and strange life forms.
I mean, we know, you know, literally nothing.
I think 5% of the Earth's deep oceans have been explored at this point.
I agree.
There could literally be anything down there.
One more quick thing that I want to touch on, because a number of people pre-interview asked me about this.
You're doing something on missing people in Alaska, right?
Correct.
I'm co-hosting a show called Missing in Alaska.
It's on the History Channel, and it's actually a two-pronged investigation.
We are in fact investigating actual cases of missing persons, and Alaska, strangely enough, has a higher percentage of missing persons per capita.
I believe it's like Four out of every 1,000 people are reported missing in the state of Alaska.
And while there are obvious reasons why that might take place, hypothermia, bear attacks, things like, you know, of that nature, getting lost in the wilderness and so forth, for that particular show we are exploring a lot of sort of unexplained phenomenon and legendary type creatures and things that could potentially Have connections or affinities to some of these missing persons cases as well.
So we do an episode on Bigfoot, many reports of Bigfoot in Alaska.
Lots of UFO activity up there.
They're having cases, Art, I'm sure you're familiar with some of the cases of these missing aircraft up there.
I mean, there have been airplanes that have vanished up in Alaska that, you know, they've mounted incredibly extensive searches.
And, you know, still have never found any sign or trace of these aircraft.
Some of the military craft with 46 people on board, you know, that's just one example.
Ken, I worked for KENI in Anchorage for three years, so I know Alaska.
Okay.
Have a lot of friends still up in Alaska.
Much better than I. Not much better, but pretty well.
What I remember about Alaska, to be honest with you, is that when winter sets in, The cold, the real cold comes, and the snow comes.
Alaska, Anchorage in particular, and I'm sure Fairbanks as well, turns into a gigantic party town.
You've never seen anything like it in your life.
So, I can imagine that people who party it up really well and then wander off somewhere into 30 below zero can probably disappear quite readily.
Let's go back to Skype and Paul.
Hi, you're on the air with Ken.
Hello, Art.
How are you?
I'm very well, thank you.
Well, I wanted to ask you and Ken.
Actually, I want to give you just a tiny bit of background.
Here in Kentucky, we have a lot of folk legends.
My father was born here in 1903.
He grew up in the military.
He was in the 82nd Mounted Cavalry.
He was a weapons expert.
He was home, out of the military, 1927 due to cutbacks, was hunting up in a gorge around Mammoth Cave, Cub Run, close to where I'm at right now, and he saw a bird-like animal in the top of a snag, he said approximately 100 yards away.
This guy was an expert shot, however, .22 caliber weapon.
And it terrified him.
So, again, he had a .22 with him, is that what you said?
Yes, he was going squirrel hunting, and he only had a single shot .22.
He didn't have a hard rifle, and he told me this story from the time I was a kid going out into the woods.
I'd go out walking with him.
It bothered him so bad if a hawk or an eagle circled overhead, it would trouble him.
He said, you know, I really hate that because he thought this thing was going to carry him off.
He felt like it had that kind of power and he described it as having bat-like wings folded around it and approximately the height of a man.
He had 2015 vision.
The other thing I wanted to tell you is I was in Point Pleasant Uh, the very first of the year 1970, because they had another flare-up of the Mothman type, uh, sightings.
Yeah, it's interesting.
They seem to come in, uh, in groups, don't they?
Well, yes, they do.
But, Ken, you know, with so many sightings like this, You must have some insight into, are these trans-dimensional, or are they some prehistoric carryover we just haven't cornered?
It's a big earth.
It is.
Kevin, it's a fair question.
I know you can't really answer it, but do you have any clues?
Well, I think, you know, when addressing the problem of flying cryptids, I think we're dealing with a lot of different things here, and I think that kind of muddies the water, so to speak.
In the case of the flying humanoids, things like Mothman, Owlman, and so forth, I think you would absolutely have to say that we're dealing with something supernatural or spectral in nature.
You know, they don't resemble anything in the fossil history.
They seem to vanish as quickly as they appear in sort of a supernatural fashion.
But on the other hand, you have these, again, these thunderbird type creatures, which is
kind of what you're talking about there, this giant prehistoric bird-like creature that
could very well be some type of surviving pterosaur or pterotaur or something from our
prehistoric past.
So I think there's a bit of a confusion there because people tend to lump all of the flying
cryptids together and associate them when in fact we may be looking at something that
is cryptozoologically viable in terms of a surviving prehistoric giant bird or flying
reptile.
And then you also have these reports of these spectral mothman-type flying humanoids.
And, you know, I think people tend to lump all of that stuff together just because they're big scary flying things.
Okay, well do me a favor, Ken.
It'll probably be after the program, but download or copy the picture on my site, right?
The one I've got up there that I talked about?
And use any program you've got, and go in and amplify as far as you can go without it pixelating.
You know, get as close as you can and avoid this thing.
I'm telling you, it looks so prehistoric.
Stay right where you are.
We're at a break.
We'll be right back.
It's a short break.
This is Midnight in the Desert, and I'm Arthur Bevel.
Thank you for watching.
And, as always, thanks for watching.
And in each subject.
Will you partake of that last offered cup?
you Or disappear into the potter's ground?
That's funny.
Um, that Slash X guy?
He didn't have to hide himself.
He's, uh, so now I know.
He's a 4chan guy.
calls we trust you but remember the NSA well you know to call the show please
dial 1-952-225-5278 that's 1-952-call-art that's funny um that slash X guy he didn't have to hide
himself he's uh so now I know he's a 4chan guy you could have said that
We all know that those people at 4chan are hairy and cryptid-like and interested in this sort of topic, so next time, feel free to promo away.
What's wrong with that?
I let everybody promo their groups on here.
Um, okay.
Back now to, uh, to our guest.
Ken, you're back on.
Yes.
Uh-oh.
Ken?
Ken, Ken, Ken.
to be back on the road to the left of the world or call again on some of the
skin can get something has happened to our audio I'm not sure what.
Quick question for you.
Is that a USB setup?
Yes, correct.
OK.
What I want you to do, Ken, is to unplug the USB from your computer, from the USB connection, right now.
Unplug it.
And then plug it back in.
And we're going to see if that clears up what's going on.
That sounds like a typical USB Mess up.
So, are you back?
I'm back.
Can you hear me?
See, it's like saying a prayer and it comes true.
I hear you just fine.
So... Awesome.
Yeah.
If you're ready, here we go.
Let's go to El Paso, Texas.
You're on the air.
Hello, Howard.
Hello, Ken.
Hi.
I wanted to share a quick story that I... I'm going to start on an experience I had with one of these creatures.
Okay.
By all means.
Approximately seven years ago, I was in my backyard with a group of friends, and my friend noticed it first off in the distance in the sky, but very far away to where people could barely see it.
It appeared to be a human shape, but with something on its back, almost like a box type thing.
And it was just like floating up in the air and like tumbling in the air.
And we couldn't really tell what it was.
Okay.
Where did this take place?
Here in El Paso, Texas.
Oh, wow.
Okay, so you're a neighbor.
Well, if you consider 600 miles neighborly, but you're just west of me there, a little hops given.
You know, that's interesting.
Texas does seem to have, right after Mexico, and I guess I consider Texas a bit of an extension of Mexico in terms of geography, that we have a lot of weird flying things that are reported here in Texas as well.
We're actually on the border with Mexico, maybe that's why.
That's right.
El Paso's right on the border.
Across the river.
So you've seen it, huh?
Yeah.
And it definitely wasn't a plane or anything like that.
You could see a human-type shape.
You should definitely go online and look up some of the videos.
Again, it's UFH, Unidentified Flying Humanoids.
And there are some Mexican UFO researchers that have basically posted a lot of these videos of these strange, sounds very similar to what you're describing, a man-like form, kind of just hovering around up in the air.
Wow.
I'll look into it.
All right, Collar, thank you.
Very interesting.
You see, people have seen these things.
This is not an area that I'm very familiar with, Ken.
I mean, I've heard of all of these things, but I've never seen one.
Uh, so I guess I'm sort of at a disadvantage, but man, it's really cool and very interesting, and obviously there's something to it.
People have seen it.
First time caller line, you are on the air with Ken.
Hi.
Hi, this is JD and Tulsa.
I want to say hello on behalf of my fellow Midnight Riders.
Midnight Riders, okay.
I encourage people to promote even 4chan.
My wife is from Peru, and she's told me about flying.
I've seen the noise before, and like you said earlier, they have no wings.
Have you heard anything about them?
And I also want to ask, what about shapeshifters?
I'm full-blood Native American, so we have a lot of beliefs like that.
I didn't know if you've done any study on shapeshifters and possibly art, that would be a good guess.
You know, maybe some tribal police, because they are supposed to investigate those claims in a shapeshifter.
Where is your wife from again, please?
Peru.
Peru.
Peru, okay.
Yes.
Interesting.
And the question of shapeshifters, also very interesting.
Ken?
Yeah, shapeshifters, very, very scary in terms of, you know, different interpretations of
shapeshifting type creatures.
Uh, the Aswang that, you know, we kind of started off at the beginning of the show, bit of a shape-shifter.
Um, in Alaska there is a creature known as the Kushtaka, the otterman, land otterman, greatly feared.
we did an episode on that and people were very very terrified
uh... the native people were very terrified of that and of course the malibu traditions in the united states of
the skinwalkers yes uh... essentially says shape-shifting type beings now
in south america i have a contact who's been sending me accounts and sightings
of something known as the lobe is on and the lobe is on is essentially a south american werewolf
a shape-shifter uh... and uh... there are accounts of these creatures
actually transforming uh... you know from the shape of a human into a kind of a
monstrous wolf like type of creatures
So, you know, again, just like with the gnomes, you have all of these global disparate legends or myths of these Shapeshifting creatures.
And as you said at the top, Art, myths don't come from nothing.
There is some grain or shred of truth behind all of these mythological legends.
Sure.
Somebody asked me to repeat the name of the one in the Philippines.
It's Aswan.
A-S-W-A-N-G.
And I would recommend you go to Google.
If you want an experience, go to Google.
Put in A-S-W-A-N-G.
Go to Pictures or Images.
And there are literally hundreds.
It's pretty frightening stuff.
And that is unique, as far as I know, to the Philippines.
And boy, does my wife believe in that.
I mean, you could get in a big fight trying to say they don't exist.
Jason, you're on the air with Ken.
Hi.
Hi, Art.
Hi, Ken.
Hi, Jason.
First off, I want to say thank you for touching on the otter man.
Subject.
I've been following that for a very long time, and you're the first people I've heard actually talk about it, so I like that a lot.
The Otter Man.
Yeah.
My question was, you're aware of the genetic similarity that exists between... We've got a not very good connection, sir.
Can you get good and close to your mic?
I don't know if you're breaking up or just a bad mic.
Is that any better?
Way better, sir.
Way better.
Are you aware of the genetic similarities that Homo sapiens shares with, say, gorillas and other primates, correct?
Yes.
Now, my question is, do you think, as far as the Sasquatch, Yeti, or whatever you want to call it goes, There's evidence that we crossbred with Neanderthals, and some of their DNA remains in our current structure.
Do you think it would be possible for us to crossbreed with, say, a Sasquatch, and perhaps some advanced, more powerful hybrid could come of it?
You first, sir.
Well, there's wild speculation, you know, this is basically all wild speculation, but, you know, we would have to know how genetically close humans and Sasquatches are.
Now, if they are Neanderthals, which some people have theorized, or Denisovans, or some of these, you know, fairly recent sub-branches of Homo, the genus Homo, then yes, I guess theoretically it's possible.
But if you're talking about something that comes from a lineage, say, Hundreds of thousands of years ago, like Gigantopithecus or Homo Erectus or something like that, then the chances are that there has been so much time has passed since we genetically split at that point that we would not be able to successfully hybridize.
But don't you think that given the time that people have been claiming they see Sasquatch and stuff, they've basically been on the Same speed of biological evolution that we have, so we can assume that we're at least close enough.
I mean, I'm not saying that like with other species, like if we were to try to mate with otter man, that would work, but with us being so close to...
I get your point.
You have the story of Stalin's ape-men.
You know, of course, there were these diabolical experiments that some of Stalin's scientists were trying to crossbreed humans and different great apes.
Again, it's a question of, and I don't pretend to be an expert in genetics, but it's a question of the time period that we split Case in point, dogs and wolves or dogs and coyotes can crossbreed fairly successfully because they only split about 15,000 years ago.
That's just a drop of water in the bucket.
But dogs and other caniforms like bears, for example, split about 15 million years ago.
And so that divergence was so long ago and they have become so genetically diverse and different that there's no way that those types of animals can interbreed.
Okay.
So, you know, again, it's a question of how long ago, whatever Sasquatch or Bigfoot is, you know, how closely related are we to it?
Is it more of like a Neanderthal type of creature or are we talking about something that split off from the human lineage, you know, hundreds of thousands or millions of years ago?
Okay, well that brings another question to mind.
Hold on one second, I'll bring you back.
I know that they found hair.
I know that they found other, you know, leavens from Bigfoot.
Have they ever done a DNA analysis?
Well, there are controversial claims of DNA analysis that have been out there now for a few years.
A geneticist from Texas claims that she's actually collected Sasquatch DNA from, I believe, three different sources and that she has mapped that DNA and that it indicates similar to what this gentleman is inferring I think some
type of hybrid between a human and some type of archaic
hominid. But DNA is obviously it's a comparative science so you know if you don't have a
a source type of a Sasquatch DNA, then you have no basis for
comparison. So if someone produces DNA and says it's from a Sasquatch, there's no
archetype that you refer to. So it's, you know, it's a bit of a circular type
of problem.
Anything else, Culler? No, that actually shoves a lot of light on my question.
Thanks for listening, and praise be to our otter overlords.
Thank you.
All right, take care.
He said otter overlords, right?
Yeah.
I'm not familiar, but the otter man reference, that was nice.
All right.
Let's go, I don't know, back to the phone, and I'm not sure where, but you're on the air with Ken.
Hi.
Yeah, hi.
Hi, hello?
Hello.
Am I on?
Can you hear me?
Yes, I can hear you.
Okay, my bad about that.
Yeah, I had a question for Ken.
I wanted to ask him, like, has any time during his research or his investigation, like, has he ever been threatened or harassed by, like, men in black or people of the government?
No, not personally.
We did have him describe a little bit earlier a kind of a strange encounter.
Was it on an airplane, right, Ken?
Yeah.
I was subversively intimidated by a strange person on an airplane on the way to a Mothman investigation once.
But no, I've never had anyone show up on my doorstep or follow me, at least not that I'm aware of.
All right.
Well, let's keep moving.
Jeff, you're on the air with Ken.
Hi.
Yeah, hey Art, it's a fascinating show tonight, so I had an experience with one of these flying humanoids once, and it was a pretty shocking experience.
I was standing outside by my pool, and I had a light on the inside, just enough light to basically see out there, and all of a sudden, just out of nowhere, this flying, sort of like a chupacabra thing, flew down.
I saw it as clear as day and the crazy thing was it had sort of red eyes and it was staring right at me.
A friend of mine was out there and he made a big yell as well and now is where I have to debunk myself.
I kid you not, if there wouldn't have been someone else out there, I'd be telling you I'd put my hand on the Bible and say this thing had a wingspan of 10-15 feet.
In reality, what it was, it was a bat.
And this bat flew right in front of my face about 3 feet out and just hovered there.
But because of the perception and the light and everything, I would have sworn the thing was 10 feet tall.
You know, I just wanted to share that from my story.
I wish it was real, but it's a debunked thing that, thank God he was out there.
Nevertheless, it was still pretty scary.
Bats don't usually... I've never seen a bat hover.
Yeah, it was right in front of me.
I get it.
I heard what you said, but I've never heard of a bat hovering.
We have bats out here.
You know, every night at about...
A sundown, or somewhere near a sundown.
They start flying around, you know, they're looking for bugs.
And I guarantee you, I've seen them make a lot of strange moves, but none of them ever included a hover.
Do you know anything about that, Ken?
Well, I'm curious, how big did the bat ultimately appear to be once it was right in front of your face?
Right, he's not that big.
But, you know, by perception, when it's that close, obviously it seems Big.
So he sort of debunked his own story by saying, no, look, it was virtually right in front of my face.
But I've never seen a bat hover.
No, I don't think so.
Bats, typically, they have a very fast, rapid movement of their wings.
That's kind of the design that... But, you know, going back to the bat theory or suggestion, now, you do have some pretty darn big bats over in the... Hold on one second here.
I am so sorry, Jaffe.
I'm answering the phone in a wrong way here.
It's my fault, and I apologize.
Okay, so you're back on the air now.
All of the bats are the suborder microchiroptera, which means they're typically all very, very tiny.
Even the largest bat in the Americas, which I believe is the false vampire bat, is only You know, less than a foot across in terms of wingspan, so.
Okay.
The suggestion that Mothman might be a giant bat doesn't really hold any water.
Jaffe, I think from somewhere outside the country?
South Korea, once again.
Our second time I've managed to get through to you, so thank you for taking my call.
I very much appreciate it.
Sure.
So, yeah, this is interesting, because I actually was going to call in just with a quick little story, but one of your last callers brought up the whole issue of crossbreeding, and Sasquatch in particular, and immediately a light went off in my head, and I realized, I remembered a story from when I was a kid, and you can actually find this online too, Ken, you might have heard of this yourself, is British Columbia, back around the turn of the last century, that's the It started in the 20th century, basically.
This Catholic nun was taking, leading a number of schoolgirls through the bush from, I guess it was their school, to some other place off in the distance, maybe a day trip or what have you, and suddenly, apparently from out of nowhere, out of the bush, there was this huge hairy beast appeared and jumped out, grabbed one of the little girls and ran off, and disappeared, and she was gone.
Lo and behold, what happened was the next year, I guess it was, or maybe it was a year or two, the girl showed up back again in a similar location, a basic area, and what did she have?
She had a little baby with her, and it was apparently, according to the story, it was half-ape, half-human.
Um, like I said, that wasn't the story, that wasn't what I was calling it originally, but, uh, uh, we can just go for that, with that for now, if you like.
There was another quick one I could, uh, had, but, uh, regarding, uh, cryptids and, uh, and, uh, uh, flying, what, what is it, angels, or, no, not angels, uh, cryptids, or, uh, what are the, uh, the big, the, what happens if I had a girlfriend who, well, what are they, what are those beasts called, the ones with the large wings, the, um... Bad girls?
Do you know the name?
I don't know.
They're not the flying humanoids?
No, no, no.
The really big ones.
The Thunderbirds.
The Thunderbirds.
Thunderbirds, yeah.
I had a girlfriend, and she basically careened off the road.
She was driving along in the van.
She had a couple of her kids with her, and she just lost control on one of these roads up in central interior British Columbia.
She was going over a large embankment.
it was it was uh... it was a look at the cliff or you know really serious
situation from out of nowhere just as the story she told me this is
your own personal experience
uh... she's a pretty straight shooter to so uh... these these giant wings appeared from out of nowhere
just as she was going over this this deep embankment slash cliff
with their kids and it did these these giant wings uh... just uh... covered
the van from the front
and and stopped her right as she was uh...
and you know heading off into you know to to face her her doom and uh...
uh... you know just uh... things would not have worked out too well for her and her
So, have you ever heard anything like that, along those lines, with, like, a Thunderbird, uh, slash Angel, slash God only knows what, you know, appearing out of nowhere and saving people?
Not just being a, you know, a malevolent sort of, uh, entity or force, but something that was, uh, helpful.
Okay, well there's actually, there's only one account in my book that refers to kind of a helpful flying humanoid, if you will, benevolent.
There's a story from Ecuador years ago, it was documented by author Robert Tralins, of these two young kids that were playing up on a mountainside in Ecuador and began to slip and fall off the mountain.
And as they were kind of hanging on the edge of this cliff, according to them, this angel-like figure, this winged humanoid figure, flew down from the sky and actually grasped, you know, sort of grasped them up from certain doom and rescued them.
And when they got back to their village, that's the story they told, that they were rescued by this winged figure who subsequently became known as the Angel of Ecuador.
Wow.
So that's really the only account I can think of in my book.
As far as, just real quick, as far as the first story you mentioned about the girl getting kidnapped by a Sasquatch, there are different legends around the world.
For example, in Central America, there's something known as the Sisamite, which is the Central American version of Sasquatch.
And one of the beliefs that pertain to the Sisamite is that they will actually abduct young women in an attempt to take them as brides.
Not that dissimilar from the old legends of the mountain gorillas.
Before the mountain gorilla was discovered and scientifically described, it was portrayed as this kind of a veritable King Kong.
You know, this monster ape that would abduct young women and take them hostage.
So it's interesting you have those different legends around the world.
Okay.
Back to the phones.
And I think up in Alaska.
Hello.
Hi.
Hi.
Oh, you're on the air, yes.
Hey, Art, this is Ryan in Anchorage, Alaska.
Hey, Ryan.
Hey, I've been trying to call you since 1995.
That's a lot of dialing.
That's a lot of dialing, but I wanted to call in because I live in Alaska and I've heard about a lot of the critters that your guest has been talking about, and I've actually had an encounter with a shapeshifter up here.
With a shapeshifter?
Okay.
Yes.
Proceed.
My dad and I were hunting in one area that we didn't like to frequent much because my dad had a bad experience back in the 70s that he didn't like to talk about.
Short version, something hunted him.
He never saw what it was but it hunted him.
But we were back in this area by the time I'd been born.
I was about 13, 14 and we were back in there a ways and we'd been hunting all day so we stopped for a potty break.
So my dad went behind one tree and being a girl I went for the bush and I'm sitting there with a 30-30 and I saw my dad.
Walk around in front of me and go up onto the ridge we're hunting on.
So I'm like, oh, well, he's done.
So I finished up and climbed up out of the bush and was up behind him.
So we're hiking back in and I'm following him.
And my dad was one of those people who always had to look behind him to see who was behind him, if he knew.
Well, I'm following him and I'm following him, or I think I'm following him.
And he's not turning back and looking at me.
And like about quarter mile, half mile of hiking behind him, I'm like, Something just set off my spider senses and I'm like, this isn't my dad.
Really?
Yeah.
I had hunted with the man since I was eight.
So six years, seven years out in the woods with him.
I knew my dad pretty well.
Sure.
And so I just stopped and I'm like, Hey, turn around.
And he didn't stop and turn around.
Like even if he'd been screwing with me, he would turn around.
Whatever this was, didn't stop.
It kept walking and it walked around a spruce tree in front of me and disappeared.
And I'm standing there, and I cocked the gun because I'm like, I'm walking behind this person, I can hear their footsteps, I can see the light hitting their body, and they just step around a tree and disappear.
So I'm standing there, and I've told this to my husband, I'm not a person that believes things unless I see them.
I mean, I've been in the woods most of my life.
I'm sitting there looking dead on at where this person disappeared, and something comes running at me.
I can hear it, but I can't see it.
But it's like Predator.
I could see the light being displaced by it.
So it's running at me, and I opened fire, and that's how my dad found where I was at, because he heard the gunshot.
So I opened fire, but I don't know if I hit it.
I had been trained never to shoot at something unless you saw what you're shooting at.
Sure.
Gun Safety 101.
Nothing dropped and it didn't seem like I hit anything, but my dad comes running up onto the ridge and he's like, you know, we get into an argument because he thinks I'm just, you know, shooting bleep.
And I'm like, I'm not just shooting things, you know, I was following you.
So we finally hash it out.
I'm like, no, you walked in front of me up onto the ridge.
I followed you because you were done using the bathroom.
I've been hiking behind you for 20 minutes now.
And someone or something walked around that tree in front of us and disappeared, and then something ran at me that I couldn't see.
Well, my dad's decision was, let's get the heck out of here, so we noped out of here.
But that's when he told me that a few years back in the seventies when he was in the Air Force he'd been hunting in that area and it was getting close to dark and he always walked around armed.
He carried a .45 hand cannon and he had a rifle and he always carried the hand cannon in his hand because that'll stop a bear.
He'd been hunting in this area and he kept hearing something behind him so he thought it was a bear, circled back, circled back, never caught this bear.
He's almost to his pickup truck and whatever it was Yeah.
was about thirty feet behind him and this is a clear trail back then so it hadn't grown
up. He's looking around, he can't see it. So he pulled the 44 and right when it's about
ten feet from behind him he turns around, there is nothing there. But the entire trip
back to his truck he said it felt like something was just standing on his neck.
Yeah.
And he couldn't see it. And I haven't gone back to that.
I even told my husband, I've been hunting since I was eight.
I'm not scared of bears.
I'm not scared of lynx.
I ain't scared of coyotes.
You cannot pay me to go hunt back in this area.
Wow.
Yeah.
We're very indicative of the stories of the Kushtaka.
You know, the Kushtaka is from Southeast Alaska.
The Tlingit people talk about its ability It's desire to lure you out into the wilderness, and one of the ways that it does this is by assimilating or taking the form of someone that you know.
So when you said that this thing looked like your father, but you could tell that it wasn't instinctively, and that it was attempting to lead you into the wilderness, that sounds pretty much like the stories that I heard about the Kushtaka.
That's what they do.
Pretty creepy stuff.
Pretty creepy indeed.
And if it had been a twilight zone, you know, it would have clearly been a monster.
She would have opened fire, only she would have hit it.
And then, of course, when it's on the ground, it would have morphed back into her father and it would have been horrible.
So, you know, that's like a shape-shifting story, I guess.
I don't know what to tell you, young lady.
That's one heck of a story.
Well, it's real, and thanks for taking my call, Art.
I've been listening to you for almost 20 years now, and I'm glad you're back.
Okay, thank you very much, and take care.
We've only got... We have very short time here to the bottom of the hour.
On Skype, you're on the air.
Hello.
Hello, man.
You are!
Oh, I just wanted to say, Art, it is an awesome show tonight.
It's got me with goosebumps.
Oh, yeah.
Because I've actually seen these type of humanoid things.
I'm coming from South Texas, and are humanoids, or Lachusas, I don't know if Kent's familiar with that.
Absolutely.
Lachusa.
I wrote about it in the book.
It is a shapeshifter, a shapeshifting witch.
Uh, and, uh, you know, essentially, she takes the form of this bird-like creature.
Um, yeah.
Uh, Latricia is very much tied up in the lore of the flying humanoids.
I'm sorry to interrupt.
Both of you, hold on.
We're out of break.
Caller, I'll hold you over.
This is, uh, Midnight in the Desert.
And, yeah, this is kind of creepy stuff, isn't it?
Especially if something can assume one shape, particularly one you're familiar with, while you're holding a gun.
No thanks.
I'm not going to be a bad guy.
I'm going to be a good guy.
I'm going to be a good guy.
I'm not going to be a bad guy.
I'm going to be a good guy.
I'm not going to be a bad guy.
To call the show, if you're east of midnight, call 1-952-CALL-ART.
If you're west of midnight, call 1-952-225-5278.
All right.
Just before we go back to our caller, Ken, are you there?
Yes, I am.
All right.
If you would, again, refer to my website, please.
Remember where you saw the picture of the bird?
Yes.
That I was talking about.
Now we've got a zoomed-in version just above it, so if you could return to that location and take a look at the zoomed-in version, I would appreciate that.
This was not intended to be a picture of a bird, by the way.
It was intended to be a picture of a building.
They just happened to catch this bird, but my God!
Let me know when you get there.
Yep.
Yep.
I'm looking at it.
Doesn't that look a little prehistoric to you?
It does.
It looks enormous.
I mean, when you look at the sheer distance, you know, obviously it's difficult sometimes to accurately gauge something in flight, but you have the scale, or you have the perspective here of the buildings.
You do.
Next to it, and you can tell how far down the street the photographer is from the object.
Oh, yes.
It looks pretty huge.
Yeah, I would say pretty huge, pretty prehistoric.
You mentioned that they come around at dire times.
Well, that was sure as heck a dire time.
Caller, you're back on the air with Ken.
Hi.
Hello.
Yeah, I was just asking, Ken, if you knew about the Lechusas, because for some reason, South Texas is, like, saturated with, like, bird-like stories.
Like, for instance, maybe, like, back in the 80s, there was that big bird story.
And everyone and their mom had an incident with the big bird.
Um, I wasn't born around the time, but my folks would tell me that this thing was at least like 15 feet, uh, you know, big and, you know, huge wingspan and stuff like that.
Sure.
And I was just, uh, wondering if, uh, Ken might had an explanation for that because I mean, for some reason, One way or another, like, there's been so many sightings over here of, like, lechusas and, you know, and all these other big, great, giant birds.
And I also had a question for Art.
Are you familiar with the manananggal from the Philippines?
I am not.
Okay.
Well, I think it's... I was wondering, since your wife is Filipino, There's a thing called a Manananggal.
It's supposed to be some kind of vampire-looking thing that looks like the Aswan.
I was just wondering if you guys maybe could, you know, tell me the difference between that.
The Aswan is thoroughly enough for me.
It's awful.
But, you know, I'll ask her.
She's listening, so I'll ask when I get home.
In the meantime, Ken, if you have anything on that, chime in.
Yeah, I'm afraid I don't have anything on that one, but my first book is actually about the Big Bird.
It's called Big Bird Modern Sightings of Flying Monsters, and it addresses the accounts of something known as the Big Bird, which was sighted starting in 1976.
you were close, but they were, it literally became worldwide news because there were so
many sightings of this enormous flying creature. It was either a giant bird or a giant pterodactyl
type of creature, and I still continue to get reports of the big bird. I've gotten some
very recently from people around here in the San Antonio area. And as far as La La Chusa,
I have one quick, very quick, chilling story. I spoke to a family, I interviewed a family
from a traditional part of Mexico who told me that there was this giant, ugly bird that
who told me that there was this giant ugly bird that was terrorizing their village and
was terrorizing their village. And at one point, somebody actually went out and shot
at one point somebody actually went out and shot this thing and killed it and when they
this thing and killed it. And when they got to the location where this thing had gone
got to the location where this thing had gone down to the ground it had actually taken on
down to the ground, it had actually taken on the form of a I interviewed a family from a traditional part of Mexico
the form of a woman who was suspected, a local woman who was suspected of being a witch.
And that is one example of a Lachusa story that you have this witch who is essentially
shape shifting into the form of this hideous bird.
Wow, that's kind of what the Aswang in the Philippines does.
They're thought to be originally some sort of humans and some sort of witch or some sort
of, I don't know.
Anyway, I don't know what I'm talking about except as my wife has told me.
First time caller line, you're on the air with Ken.
Please go ahead.
Yeah, Art.
My name's Kelly.
I'm from North Central Washington State and I've got a story for you guys.
Okay.
I had a run in.
I've had a few encounters with some real Sasquatches.
A whole family of them, as a matter of fact.
Once my friend and I decided we were going to go plant ourselves smack dab in the middle of the Sasquatch country, so we went 45 miles to the end of the road, and then we hiked six miles up and in and around, and about 2,000 feet elevation gain.
By the time we got there, it was totally dark.
I shined my light ahead of him, and I saw these red eyes glowing right in front of him, so I grabbed him by his back and said, stop, don't go that way.
And was right on the edge of the clear cut right where we almost got to where we were supposed to camp.
So we went around the other way a couple hundred yards and we got to where we were going to set up camp in the middle of this clear cut because avalanche or snow sludge came through and wiped everything out.
And right over there on that exact spot right where I had just grabbed him all of a sudden we heard a 300 pound like boulder Just go crushing, crashing through the brush.
And it was like a totally flat spot.
And that's, that's when it started.
Uh, they were pretty much left us alone all night.
But the next morning we started hearing the rock knockers up, up around us, up on the cliff.
And then we started hearing what sounded like 300 pound giant woodpeckers.
And I figured it was them.
They were making this noise with their throats, like really loud.
And they were moving around a lot over in the woods, but we couldn't see anything.
And then we heard him, the screaming howler, the big daddy started coming up the valley, letting out this roar every minute for a half an hour straight.
And he screamed for like 30 seconds.
He sounded like the Westmoreland PA howler, if you've ever heard that.
Yeah.
Yeah, we hiked out of there and they let us go.
That was just one, and if anything you should know, Ken, and you should know about Lloyd Pye, he talks about how the Sasquatch are really the hominids and they are the missing link to us homo sapiens.
That's what he believes, yes.
I believe, telling the truth, I really I felt like a couple other encounters I had when I came close to Sasquatch, I never saw him, but one other time I heard him speak to me, and I just got the sense to leave him alone.
I didn't have a light on me at the time, I just heard him speak.
In the brush.
And yeah, I said, I said, don't take another step over there.
You might fall off and go into the river and go bye bye.
And I heard him say back to me from about 10 feet away.
Bye bye.
So echoing what you said.
Oh, that's weird.
Okay.
I appreciate the call, sir.
Thank you very much.
On Skype.
You're on the air.
Hello.
Hello on Skype, George.
Nope, guess not.
Let's go back over here and go to the next one on the phone.
You're on the air.
Hi.
Yes, hello, Art.
Hello, Ken.
Can you guys hear me okay?
Yep, just fine.
Yep.
Hi.
Okay.
I had a terrifying encounter.
It lasted about seven hours with something that I'm not really prepared to label.
Okay.
I was hoping maybe he could tell me what he think it could be.
I called one other time about this, uh, when you had Linda Godfrey on.
Oh, yeah.
It was, yeah, it was in Pennsylvania at a place called Otter Lake.
And, uh, at the, at the closest, it was about a foot and a half from where I was.
And it had, uh, had a very human kind of features to its face, this elongated ears, uh, very large human hands, uh, A very long, thin arms, like a, like a white kind of wool or something like that all over it that had, uh, its legs almost appeared to be like what you would see in like a, like a satanic, like goat God kind of thing, you know?
Yes.
And, uh, it has like these very large yellow glowing eyes.
And, uh, it had the two things that were like birdlike, None of it were wings.
It was the way that it moved its head and the way it seemed to be very aware of its environment.
And the other thing was the sound it made when it was deep in the woods.
It was like a very loud, two-toned bird screech, almost.
So, I mean, I've just been baffled by it ever since.
Any comments?
Wow.
That is pretty remarkable.
Well, you know, the first thing that kind of springs to mind is, you know, you said you're in Pennsylvania, and of course they have the great legends and sightings of something known as the Jersey Devil, which is primarily reported down in southern New Jersey, but there are some crossover accounts from Pennsylvania.
Now, did you say this creature also had wings?
Actually, unless I'm mistaken, this collar is coming from Trenton, New Jersey, right?
Yeah, I used to live in Trenton, New Jersey.
I still have a Trenton phone number, but one summer we were out camping at a place called Otter Lake and that's when the event occurred.
Yeah, well it sounds like a chimera, kind of a mixture of different animal characteristics, humanoid and some animalistic.
It could actually fit very well within the paradigm of flying humanoids, because as we've been discussing for the whole show, they take all shapes and forms.
It's almost as if they're shapeshifters in some respect.
Um, but you know, if nothing else, you get a reprieve here because the eyes are glowing yellow instead of red, right?
I was going to say that.
Not quite as scary.
What is blowing me away, Ken, is that we are getting so many calls from people who have seen something like this.
Yeah, well, that's the way it happens.
I think the vast majority of people that have had these experiences, obviously, for obvious reasons, are fearful of ridicule and having their credibility and character questioned.
But when you create a climate or an environment where you can talk about these things in an open setting, Yeah, I think a lot of people have seen these things, whatever they are, or encountered these things, and have never come forward.
So this is awesome.
Yeah, I appreciate it.
Back in New Jersey, or not New Jersey, Pennsylvania, anything else?
I just want to clarify that this one did not have wings, and the yellow eyes were no less scary than any kind of red eyes.
They were huge.
I'm 6'8", and if it stood up, it would probably be a little bit taller than I was.
It also reminds me of something known as the Goatman, and the Goatman is a strange creature that's been reported around North America.
It's kind of similar to the mythological Greek satyr, you know, kind of like a human form with the lower half of a goat and kind of a demonic aspect to it.
Okay, let's go here on the phone.
You're on the air.
Hey, how are you doing, gentlemen?
Very well.
Great show tonight.
Thank you.
Definitely giving me the creeps.
Me too, actually.
I'm from West Virginia, a huge Mothman enthusiast, of course.
I grew up about five miles away from where the Woody Darenberger Indrid Cold event happened.
So I've been interested in that for many years and have done a little bit of research on everything and I actually go out to the old TNT site On a fairly regular basis, just kind of fiddle around there.
I've never really seen anything out there, but in all of my research after I became interested in the Mothman and everything, I came across an article, and I guess it was in France in the 1800s, that some French miners, I'm not sure what they were mining, had blown, I guess, part of a mountain out, and there was a Some type of flying reptile that was reported that came out of there.
I was wondering if Ken had ever came across that.
So this was after they blew part of the mountain out?
That's what flew out?
Yes sir, yeah.
And it was recorded in an actual local newspaper.
I think it was something like 40 or 50 miners had seen this thing come out and they said, you know, this huge flying reptile.
And I guess it was, you know, Similar to, like, a pterosaur.
I'm familiar with the account and I think John Keel documented in some of his books.
You know, as strange as this sounds from someone that investigates monsters for a living, I am very skeptical about some of these old newspaper accounts from the old, you know, the late 1800s and early 1900s.
I get the sense having read a lot of these types of articles that, you know, back in the day they oftentimes would take some, shall we say, creative license with some of these There's an even more famous account that's relative to the United States.
In 1886 or 1890, according to an article in the Tombstone, Arizona Epitaph newspaper, there was a giant pterodactyl that was shot just outside of Tombstone in the Whetstone Mountains.
And there was actually a photograph taken of this thing stretched out across a barn with several people standing in front of it.
So it's known as the Thunderbird photo, and it's an elusive photograph that may or may not exist that could conclusively prove that these giant pterodactyl-type Thunderbirds exist.
But although many people have claimed to have seen this photograph, no one has been able to produce a copy of it in modern times.
That's something I'll have to research.
Also, whenever the callers started calling in about the hybrid creatures, it reminded me of a time when I was younger.
I grew up in central West Virginia in the mountains, pretty rural area.
I'm a hunter, fisherman, outdoors person for years.
This has happened When I was younger, about five or six, it was me, my mother, and my sister were driving home.
We lived out in the middle of nowhere on a mountain, and we had two neighbors.
And for the longest time, they'd been reported seeing something that looked like a fox or a raccoon hybrid.
And they said, you know, it looked like a markings of a raccoon, but it stood pretty tall, you know, almost taller than what a fox would stand.
It had long, longer legs, had kind of like The bandit looking markings on the face, but then it had a ring tail.
And they said it didn't look like a fox's tail.
It was kind of bushy.
They said this was like a long, thin tail that had rings on it.
And I was wondering if it was possible for foxes and raccoons to mate and you get a crossbreed of those two animals.
No, that would not be possible.
Again, just as I was saying earlier, although they are in the same family of caniforms,
foxes and raccoons diverged millions of years ago, so they're not genetically close enough
to mate.
But you do have raccoon-like animals like cooties and red pandas and all kinds of, you
know, the raccoon family is very diverse and around the world you have different subspecies
that look very different from the raccoons we know here in North America, so maybe it
was an escaped animal or something like that.
All right, Ken.
We're out of time.
The show is ending.
Nothing I can do about that.
It has been fabulous to have you here.
Is there anything you quickly want to promote?
Um, you know, I just want people to check out Missy in Alaska on History Network or History 2 H2 Network.
All right.
I'm missing in Alaska.
We can probably do another show on that.
Meanwhile, you're leaving the phone lines open.
That's the way to do it, I guess.
I mean, full.
So, Ken, thank you very much, and we'll have you back.
Sounds great, Art.
You have a great night.
Take care, my friend.
Sorry to those of you on the line.
Apologize for that.
I tried to get to everybody, but... The cryptids wouldn't let it happen.
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