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Nov. 17, 2015 - Art Bell
02:22:53
Art Bell MITD - Kevin Randle 100 Years of UFO Coverups
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From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening, good
morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be in the world's 25 time zones, each and
every one of them covered like a warm fuzzy blanket by this program, Midnight in the Desert.
My name is Art Bell, and I'm glad to be here.
The rules of our show are ooh so simple during the week.
No bad language and only one call per show.
Okay, late breaking news.
Two Air France flights have been diverted.
Probably because of bomb threats in both cases, I would imagine.
Flight 65, Air France, diverted to Salt Lake City.
We're coming out of LA.
They were on the way to Paris, probably over the pole.
It was an Airbus 380, and that's a big one.
Three to five hundred passengers, something like that.
And then, just a few moments later, an Air France plane from Dulles in Washington to Paris.
Flight 55 diverted to Halifax, Nova Scotia.
So, in both cases, hitting Air France.
And, uh, that's of course going to hurt them somewhat economically and, uh, give the country more of the jitters and lots of passengers the jitters, I'm sure.
French police now are hunting for a second fugitive directly involved, they say, in the deadly Paris attacks.
As France made, get this, an unprecedented demand that its European Union allies support its military action against the Islamic State group.
Did you hear that?
Including the President, who spoke from Manila in the Philippines, where he presently is, going after them for that, suggesting it's a little ridiculous that we'd be afraid of widows and little children, boys and girls, There's an awful lot of... I don't know how many, you know, guys in their twenties and thirties we bring over here from... I don't think many.
But yeah, I mean, they would be a worry.
I can see why they would be a worry.
And some of the widows are also not to be trusted.
A lot of them lost husbands over there due to reasons that would give them reason to be unhappy with us.
And oh, by the way, before we leave The subject of ISIS.
This kind of confirms what the doctor said last night.
OP Paris, it's called.
There's an article in RT Live, breaking today, the 17th, that hacktivist group, get this, Anonymous, has reported that more than 5,500 Twitter accounts belonging to Islamic State The Islamic State has been taken down.
It comes after the Collective declared a total war on the militant group following the Paris attacks, and again echoing what was said here last night.
Tweeting from its OpParis account, Anonymous stated, we report more than 5,500 Twitter accounts of ISIS are now down.
OpParis.
Hashtag Anonymous.
Hashtag expect us.
You as us.
So good for them.
Good for Anonymous.
They're doing a good thing.
I can see a possible reason why the U.S.
government might not consider it to be a good thing.
We monitor all those accounts, right, for chatter.
But from what I've heard, the real chatter that goes on is done with encrypted apps, which you can get anywhere.
You know, you get five minutes, you can get an encrypted app.
And so it's my understanding that's really how they're communicating.
Now, whether that would be true, I guess it would, I guess, from continent to continent as well.
Charlie Sheen declaring his bad boy days are over now.
And also, he declared he's HIV positive.
Doing okay on medicine.
Matt Lauer on NBC asked him if he transmitted to anybody else, and he declared, impossible.
I don't know.
It would be interesting to have that defined, impossible, really.
Maybe there is some reason that it's physically impossible.
What do I know?
So, the world continues to shake, rattle, and roll, courtesy of ISIS, and we're going to have to get them.
I think that's it.
We're going to have to get them.
They have to be exterminated.
And that's generally a word you would only use with regard to vermin or bugs, right?
But I think that's the case with ISIS.
Extermination is called for.
And you know, and I know that brings some angry retort out there.
And I know that there are liberals who just don't agree with it.
I say exterminate it.
They have to actually be.
The only thing they care about is killing us.
That's it.
That's all they care about.
Killing us.
They don't care if they have to give their lives to achieve that goal.
So, you know, I don't see what choice there is.
If you have something that just wants to kill you, then it seems to me That, uh, you've got to deal with it.
One way or the other, you've got to deal with it.
All right, coming up in a moment.
Quite a show, I would imagine.
Retired Lieutenant Colonel Kevin D. Randall has now, for more than 45 years, studied the UFO phenomenon in all its various incarnations, and there have been many.
Training by the Army as a helicopter pilot, intelligence officer, and military policeman, also by the Air Force as both An intel officer and a public affairs officer.
All that provided Randall with a keen insight into the operations and protocols of the military and into the UFO phenomenon, which has puzzled people for more than a century, including me.
During his investigations, he has traveled the U.S.
to interview hundreds of witnesses who were involved in everything from the Roswell, New Mexico crash of 47, The repeated radar sightings of UFOs over Washington D.C.
in 52 to the very latest abduction cases.
Randall was among the first writers to review the declassified Project Blue Book files.
So, he's been around for a while, right?
First to report on animal mutilations, alien abductions, alien home invasions, and among the first to suggest humans are working With extra terrestrials.
In a moment, Kevin Ranney.
I'm going to be a part of it.
That's MITD 51.
Always be sure to use a headphone mic when you call, or you can do it on a, you know, on a regular phone.
I don't know, a phone, an iPhone, or an Android.
All right, here, ladies and gentlemen, is Kevin Randall.
Kevin, welcome to Midnight in the Desert.
I am delighted to be here.
Well, delighted to have you.
It's been how long since we talked, do you think?
It's been several years.
I think it was right after I got back from Iraq that was the last time we talked, and I've been back for ten years.
All right.
So, Kevin, we're going to talk about UFOs tonight, but maybe it really makes sense to
start out asking you about what has been the biggest, I guess, news of the year of this
sort, and that is, of course, the Kepler discovery of the megastructures around star KIC 8.62852.
And I have declared that the planet should be called Randall's World.
Nobody else has given it a name.
We've got that long string of numbers to go with it.
Actually, they have given it a name.
Oh, nuts.
It's the way it goes.
It was the gal who discovered it, and I think, I'm trying to remember now, let's see, it was Tabby.
That's it, Tabby.
That was my big claim to fame, I think.
But the thing is, I mean, what is incredible is that they're able to discover these planets, circling stars.
This one's, what, 1,500 light years away.
1,480 to be exact.
I was close.
And to make these determinations is just incredible.
And now they have a structure that they can't explain scientifically.
Other than it might be artificial, and that would be just wonderful news, although I think, given the distance, we don't need to worry about them showing up tomorrow, unless they understand something about space travel that we do not, and obviously, if you're traveling interstellar distances, you certainly do.
Kevin, well, nobody's saying they travel interstellar distances, but they have this megastructure, which would be harnessing the power of asan now you want to my might want to move the
microphone a little further away from your mouth
uh... where i keep mind is you know kevin is uh... between my uh... lips and my chin
if you put it there then you don't get a lot of breath sounds and you don't have
a lot of trouble what what what i said i'm not
I'm new to the 21st century technology.
I understand.
And the mics that we used in the Army on our helmets, you had to put it right up against your lips or you couldn't understand what people were saying.
Oh, right.
Well, we are past that.
Yes, way past that, I'm afraid.
But this structure is just absolutely fascinating.
I worry that it's going to turn out like some of the other evidences of artificiality that we've discovered in the past that turned out to be natural phenomenon.
But at the moment, we don't have a good explanation for it, and it's just wonderful information suggesting life beyond the solar system.
Alright, well, so here's the thing.
We have to remember that they are 1,400 In 80 light years away, Kevin, and because of that, that would mean that this megastructure or megastructures that we're seeing, I believe it's many that they're seeing, would have been constructed 1,480 years ago.
So, one can only wonder, you know, if you look at the past 50 years of our progress, Kevin, how much progress they would have made in the last 1,480 years.
Or go back to my grandparents being born before there were cars, before there were airplanes, before there was radio, before there was television, in the late 19th century, the 1890s, and look what they saw in their lifetime, including people walking on the moon.
And now we look at it in our lifetimes, and you and I are discussing this on worldwide radio, Well, here's something I thought was silly.
internet. So you look back, you look back at what we've been able to do in the last
fifty years, the last hundred years, and think if you had the technology, the technological
base to build on, what you would be able to do, or what we would be able to do, fifteen
hundred years in the future. There's just no telling how far we could range through
the cosmos.
Well, here's something I thought was silly. Well, it wasn't silly, but I mean, the Allen
Telescope's Green Bank turned their dishes toward the star for about a week.
They didn't hear anything and everybody went.
Oh, well Which is crazy because number one?
Who's to say in this little tiny span of a week that we're going to hear anything at all, or that we could hear anything at all from something that far away.
So it's just as valid today as the day they announced the possibility of these being megastructures.
The fact that the telescopes didn't hear any signals saying, yo-ho, Earth, doesn't mean a thing.
And, well, the other thing to look at is, we just assume they use radio.
Maybe they don't.
Well, yeah.
And of course, I probably shouldn't say that to you, that they don't use radio.
No, I don't think they do, Kevin.
There would be light years, so to speak, ahead of that.
Well, but the radio signal would be coming from 1480 years ago.
And you look at it from our point of view, also, we've been radiating radio signals for
120 years or so.
The thing that's always scared me about this is an alien race picks up the radio signals we're radiating and what they get is like Laverne and Shirley.
They don't get the intelligent end of the spectrum, they get the opposite end of it.
Well, and for that reason they would probably immediately destroy us.
Or avoid us completely!
All right, so anyway, there we have that.
Now you've got a new book out, right?
Yes.
What is it called?
The UFO Dossier, and it is a follow-up on the government UFO secrets, which looked at what the U.S.
government had been doing for 50 or 60 years.
This expands it out into a worldwide arena, so we're looking at not only what the United States has done, but we're looking at it from a worldwide perspective and what we're seeing is how the US has
affected other nations in their UFO research and how they've kind of been able to manipulate
things so that the foreign governments aren't taking a serious look at UFOs because of what the
United States Air Force and what the United States government has said.
So we're looking at all of that but we look at the French reports, we look at things from
Great Britain, we look at Australia, we look at a lot of different things telling us how
they've investigated UFOs and what they've found.
Well, has the totality of the evidence from here and around the world really truly convinced you that we are being visited, number one?
I think if you look at the evidence, you don't look at what people have said, what the opinions are, and you ignore, purposely you ignore some of the government studies that have been done, because clearly they were biased, and clearly they were designed with one goal, which was to end interest in UFOs.
But if you look at the totality of the evidence, from the landing trace cases, the radar sightings, that are also visual radar sightings, if you will, You look at the photographic evidence that is available.
You look at some of the recovered materials that have been analyzed.
Then you begin to understand that there's a good body of evidence of something going on.
Then when you bring in the observational data from a lot of pilots, scientists, educated people, what you see is overwhelming evidence that visitation is taking place.
Alright, well I've had a number of people who agree with you on lately, and some of them actually think an invasion could be actually going on.
What do you think?
We haven't seen any really overt, hostile moves since this whole thing began.
People say it began in 1947 with Kenneth Arnold.
I think it actually began with the Foo Fighters during World War II, and there's a continuity Intelligence work that started with the Foo Fighters during the Second World War that moved to the United States prior to the Arnold Sighting and then became an official investigation.
So we've got this long history of looking at this information, these sightings taking place, this observation of these craft around the Earth, and it doesn't seem that they're overtly hostile when there has been something that happened.
It normally is either initiated by us, Or is our approaching too close to their craft and being injured in that way?
It doesn't seem like they're injuring people on purpose.
So I'm not sure that we've got an invasion coming, but we've certainly got an observation going on.
And I suppose you could say, I did an article, one of my first articles, which was back in the 1970s, I called it Reconnaissance of Earth, which explained how the observations were going on.
And so you might say that it's an ongoing reconnaissance building up to something like that, but at this point I just don't see the hostility that some others have seen.
Well, I don't mean giant... Of course, they might be right and I could be completely wrong.
Yeah, I don't mean giant craft hovering over our cities or anything like that, you know, with death rays coming down.
It's Dr. Jacobs.
Yes.
You know Dr. Jacobs?
Yes.
And he thinks that this is...
An ongoing situation that we are being invaded, slowly but surely, by abductees, if you will.
Half human, half alien.
I keep hearing a thump there.
I don't know why.
That's interesting.
There it is again.
Are you touching your mic, Kevin?
No.
I'm sitting as still as I possibly can.
Huh.
I wonder what that is.
There is again.
So that you couldn't blame the thump on me.
Okay.
All right, so anyway, he believes that we are essentially being integrated, if you will, and that eventually we'll be more or less replaced.
Yes, I've read his books and looked at his theories, and they're interesting, but it's I'm not sure that the evidence completely supports that conclusion.
You know, there's some interesting evidence, and as you mentioned in the introduction, I think I'm the first one to report the aliens being inside a house, and this was the Pat Roach abduction that took place in 1973.
Reported it in Saga's UFO report in 1976, mentioning the aliens inside the house, and then the family, or members of the family, are moved outside to the A ship for their examinations, that sort of thing.
So we see that sort of thing going on, and I know Betty Hill talked about, I think she said at one point, she thought there were a lot of little Betty Hills running around out in space, which would be suggesting some sort of genetic experimentation taking place.
Yes, well, most, Kevin, of our abductions do seem to involve some sort of reproductive Something or another going on.
In other words, they take sperm samples, they take eggs, they do all kinds of things.
I even got an email here recently from a nurse, Kevin, in which she documents... I'm hearing that again.
Whatever it is, I don't know what that could be.
At any rate, she documents a missing fetus, Kevin.
There's a lot of that information that has been published, and a number of scientists have looked into it to see if they could corroborate that sort of information.
There's some interesting corroboration that has gone on out there.
I think it was Dr. Richard Neal had looked into that before his untimely passing, which was, what, 20 years ago now, I think.
Okay, of those abductions and or...
Or contacts that you have investigated.
How many have involved this sort of thing?
I haven't done an awful lot in the abduction arena recently, because there are some abductions that are clearly terrestrially based, meaning simply that it's a psychological Phenomenon as opposed to something something physical sure and I never felt qualified to deal with those sorts of people That might need the psychological help so I always try to If somebody contacts me about an abduction problem to direct them to one of the researchers who?
Is involved in that sort of research like Kathleen Martin for example who was the niece of Betty Hill?
I think I sent a number to Yvonne Smith and Because I thought their research and their qualifications for that kind of investigation were better than mine.
So I haven't done a lot with the abduction research in the last number of years.
I've concentrated more on a physical aspect of it, like the Roswell case, or looking at the documentation and trying to get that brought forward.
All right.
With regard to The only time that I'm hearing this noise is when you're not talking, Kevin.
So it's something you're doing when you're not talking, like now.
I'm sitting here quietly.
Okay.
It may be the USB connection, or I'm not sure what it is, but if it continues, what I'll do is call you on the phone.
Okay.
So we can get a connection without this noise.
I'm sitting quietly because you mentioned the thumping noise.
I believe you.
I think it's the NSA, personally.
I blame most things on them, actually.
Could be.
But I try to make sure everything is stable.
Right.
And I'm not hearing anything at all.
You're not?
No.
Right.
Well, it's a mic noise.
For example, if I hit my mic, that's what you hear.
Do that or it's only when you're, it's something you're doing when you're not talking, whatever that is.
I'm just sitting here.
I haven't touched the mic or anything.
I have my hands on my desk.
All right.
Keep them there.
I'll be glad to.
Yeah.
Don't worry about it.
We'll figure it out one way or the other.
Uh, so you did, I know, research the hell out of Roswell.
I mean, you really spent, A lot of time on Roswell.
So I'd like to get your insights.
I know something I do want to get covered is that I believe you had some work done or someone had some work done on that famous memo that somebody was holding.
General Ramey.
General Ramey, yes.
Trying to clarify exactly what that memo said, am I right?
Yes, yes.
Do we now know what it said?
Unfortunately, we have not been able to clarify it at all.
Much more than it originally was done.
So, high definition of a low-def product doesn't add much.
Alright, hold tight.
We'll get right back to you.
I guess Kevin Randall, we're talking about ufology.
The history of it.
Who's gonna tell you when it's too late?
Who's gonna tell you things?
Into this house we're born Into this world we're thrown Back now to Kevin Randall, who has been investigating UFOs for, well, nearly all his adult life, I guess.
Come on, men and women, Skype up.
Call Midnight in the Desert at MITD51.
That's MITD51.
Back now to Kevin Randall, who has been investigating UFOs for, well, nearly all his adult life, I guess.
And, Kevin, you're back on the air again.
Well, that's good to be there, I guess.
Good.
We'll see how well it goes here.
So, actually, we tried Kevin's landline number, and that was full of homes, so we're giving this another try on Skype.
Anyway, as I mentioned, there was an effort to get a high-definition look at that document, and sure enough, you got a high-definition look of what was originally a load.
In other words, garbage in, garbage out.
Try to go to high def, you still can't read it, right?
Well, the fun thing was that our technology has evolved to the point where we might be able to see something, and using the latest software and some better microscopic camera equipment, that sort of thing, we thought if we could focus on that part of the negative, it might tell us something a little bit more.
We could read it to A greater degree than we have been able in the past.
There are some words that are readable in it, and almost everybody agrees that they're there.
I think it says Fort Worth, Texas at one point.
And the term weather balloons and disk seem to be almost universally accepted by people who have looked at this.
And we were hoping that by applying the latest technology, using, getting new scans directly from the negatives, and the people at the University of Texas at Arlington were very helpful in that.
Getting some of the better scans and seeing if we couldn't use some of our latest software to kind of determine what was seen.
We've opened it up, we've sent copies of those scans to a number of people, both At the believer end of the spectrum and the skeptical end of the spectrum hoping that we can get some kind of a universal read on this and unfortunately the going has been very slow and we haven't been able to resolve some of the issues.
One of the key phrases was victims of the wreck apparently is on this thing and if you look at it one way it looks an awful lot like that term is there and if it says victims of the wreck well then you've got something that is very positive in the way of the Roswell crash, but others have
said, well maybe it's viewing, and if it's viewing, even if it's viewing of the wreck,
then that takes it in a different direction.
So we've got some issues we're trying to work out on this, and hoping that by
opening it up to a wider range of people looking at it, that somebody might be able to
resolve the issues to the satisfaction of most people.
I don't think we're ever going to be able to get everybody happy with a reading of this thing unless we could find the actual message somewhere to compare it.
But I think we could come to a point, or we'd hope to come to a point where we could get a large majority of the people agreeing on what the text says.
I understand that you have researched some abduction cases recently, and I, of course, interviewed Travis Walton.
In fact, I did it again not long ago.
His story has always remained consistent, Kevin, and there's a lot of witnesses who went through a lot of lie detector tests.
I think it's the most legit story that I've heard.
To date, when you look at abduction cases, what do you think?
I look at cases like Travis Walton and the Hills case as a more likely scenario because it seemed that they were targets of opportunity, that they're out in a remote area late at night or early in the evening, I guess, with Travis Walton, but they were sort of targets of an opportunity.
I've talked to Travis Walton a couple of times.
I talked to Steve Pierce.
I think Pierce first really began telling his aspect of the story two or three years ago, and I had an opportunity to sit down with him and get his point of view and learn what the ramifications have been for him.
Well, tell me what he said.
He was on board that, yeah, Travis Walton was abducted, but the thing is, I think Philip uh... had talked to pierce
and and got the idea that pierce wanted to be paid a great deal
of money for his story to kind of uh...
out travis walton and i think it was the way class phrase the questions and
and pierce misunderstanding it so it's not really that pierce disagrees with what what what
was says He actually, when I talked to him, suggested that the abduction was real, that there wasn't any kind of dispute amongst the people involved in that, with Mike Rogers and Steve Pierce and Travis Walton and the other fellows involved.
There was really no dispute amongst them about what they'd seen and what had happened on there, and it was class kind of Manipulating the data for his own point of view, which we've seen any number of times with Klaas manipulating data.
So, Pierce was agreeing with what Walton said, but he talked about how he had been, I think it was Klaas had talked about $10,000 and wanted Pierce to come out and say that Walton hadn't been abducted.
That kind of thing.
And Pierce didn't do it.
So that would speak highly of both Pierce and Walton, that he wouldn't take a bribe to deny the thing took place.
I mean, $10,000 to a guy who's at that end of the economic spectrum is a great deal of money.
And you'd expect, if he had a chance to get it, by just saying, well, yeah, I wasn't involved, or it didn't really take place the way Travis said it did.
I mean, that's quite an accusation you're making, that Klass offered ten grand to elicit, essentially, a lie, is what you're saying.
That is what Steve Pierce had suggested to me, that Klass had been manipulating the data.
But I've seen Klass do that.
Any number of times in the past.
I mean, you look at what he's done.
He went after James McDonald because he didn't like his UFO research and got him a number of his Navy contracts for atmospheric research cancelled because the Navy didn't want to get involved in UFO research.
He went after a fellow at a A private university for claiming that he had been involved in a UFO sighting and the university's attitude was, screw you, Philip Class, we don't care.
The Navy, because Aviation Week and Space Technology did an awful lot of Uh, investigative reporting on that didn't want to get caught up in something like that.
So, I mean, Class manipulated the data frequently like that.
And from what I understand from Pierce, Pierce thought Class was offering him $10,000 to tell the truth.
And it just never came out that way.
To tell the truth?
Yes.
But that isn't...
Yes, that's the truth.
Just let's come out and say it a lie, to tell a lie, because he passed a lie detector test saying the whole thing was real, right?
Yes.
So you're really talking about somebody offering money to tell a lie in plain language?
Sure, sure, but I mean we've seen that an awful lot in the I'll say debunker.
I don't want to really smear skeptics with this kind of a brush, because the skeptics are, I think, operating from a point of honesty.
This is what they sincerely believe, and they look at the evidence and they interpret it differently than the rest of us do.
They set the bar higher for their level of evidence, I guess.
Well, I do too.
I'm skeptical.
I've had my own incredible sighting.
I'm still skeptical.
I don't know what I saw.
I mean, I know what I saw.
I don't know whether it could be from our government or it could be from some other planet.
I just, you know, star system.
I have no idea.
So, I remain somewhat skeptical and interested in proof.
That's the reason I've enjoyed the Travis story because, I don't know, there's so many witnesses, there's so much to it.
What other stories would you put up in that class with a lot of witnesses or, you know, something you can verify and put your hand around?
I think one of the best cases is Leveland, Texas from November of 1957.
What happened there?
This was a case, any number of people saw a craft close to the ground, It stalled the car engines, it dimmed their headlights, it filled their radios with static, and then when it left their car, they could start their cars again, they could drive off, their radios cleared up, and the lights came back.
What happened was the Air Force claimed that there were only three witnesses to this event.
Don Kehoe, who was the director for NICAP, which was a civilian organization, said there were nine witnesses.
And the Air Force and NICAP were arguing about the number of witnesses rather than investigating the case.
And when I went back and looked at the Project Blue Book files and the files from QFOS, the Center for UFO Studies, and some other organizations, I found witnesses at 13 separate locations who had seen the craft on the ground and talked about it stalling their car engines and that sort of thing.
Here's an event where the craft is interacting with the environment.
You've got witnesses from the entire social economic spectrum.
You've got well-educated people.
You've got college people.
You've got people who finished high school.
You've got Pedro Saucedo, who was the guy that I think reported it first to the sheriff.
He was a Korean War veteran.
So you've got a wide range of people seeing this thing.
Now, Don Berlandson, who lives in Roswell, New Mexico, in 2000 went to level land and actually interviewed the daughter of the sheriff and the sheriff's widow.
And they said that the sheriff had been told by the Air Force not to talk about it to anybody.
Just say you saw the thing in the distance and let it go at that.
But according to the daughter, there was landing traces.
uh... on a ranch near level land texas so you would have had a landing trace case which left physical evidence on the ground you've got the interaction with the environment and you've got witnesses independent witnesses at thirteen separate locations now about two hours after the sightings ended at level land a series of sightings took place at white sands new mexico which may be directly uh...
Related to this, and I had an opportunity, there were four military policemen involved in the sighting.
Yes, why do you think related?
Because it took place, the object left the Leveland area, apparently got to the White Sands area some two hours later.
So it seems logical it's the same object being seen.
Or at least possible, yeah, at least possible.
I had an opportunity to talk to one of the MPs.
And what is interesting here, there were four MPs involved.
The Air Force interviewed three of them.
The fourth one was unavailable because he was suddenly on a three-day pass.
Well, those of us who've been in the military understand that a three-day pass limits how far you can go, and you have to leave a contact number in case you have to come back.
So there's no reason for the Air Force not to interview that fourth guy, unless the story I heard that the guy was actually in the hospital is true.
And I've been trying to get the morning reports from the military, which they've got them on file in St.
Louis, to see if I can determine where that guy was that week the Air Force was doing the investigation.
But it was a series of sightings.
The skeptics or the debunkers wrote it off as, well, the guys got fooled by the moon or they got fooled by Venus.
And the fellow I talked to, a guy named Glenn Toy, said that they had seen the object come down in front of the mountains and hover not far above the
ground, maybe 200-300 yards away from them.
So they're seeing the object close to the ground.
They're not seeing it up in the sky and the clouds aren't fooling them and any of that
stuff.
They're seeing it close to the ground.
And then it took off.
One of the soldiers was apparently injured by this and was in the base hospital.
But the Air Force didn't investigate him.
What I'd like to see is the morning report to see if it will tell me that the guy was on pass or if he was in fact in the hospital.
Because there'd be no reason for the military to lie on the morning reports or the Army to lie on these morning reports.
They wouldn't believe that anybody would even look at that.
So they would explain where the guy was.
If he's not available for duty, They've got to explain where he is.
And if he was on a three-day pass, that would be in the morning report.
If he was in the base hospital, that would be in the morning report.
And I have not been able to get those.
I wrote for this stuff.
The people in St.
Louis sent me a letter that says, well, you need to send us $8.30 so we can search the records, and you need to tell us a specific time frame, and we won't look at anything more than 90 days.
I sent him a one-week time frame.
And that was a response I got, and I sent them the $8.30, and they sent the same form letter back, and cashed my check for $8.30.
So I'm out eight bucks, and still don't have the money.
Was that a Freedom of Information request?
No, that was just a standard request.
Now, if you submit a Freedom of Information request, they can still charge you for it.
So, I haven't been able to get the information about this guy, whether or not he was in the base hospital.
I know his name, his last name was Eubanks, he was like a spec 4, an E4 at the time that this took place.
And I've tried to find the family, but the only people I've talked to, the fellow I was looking for had passed away.
But I did talk to Glenn Toye, who was his partner that day.
But this is a series of sightings that the craft interacted with the environment.
The descriptions from the witnesses are pretty much similar.
And they were scattered all over the Texas Panhandle, from north of Leveland down south I think it's Shallow Water, Texas.
It's all right around the Lubbock, Texas area.
The Air Force sent an NCO to investigate and he spent most of the day talking to a couple of people and said there's nothing to it.
It was caused by bad weather in the area.
Thunderstorms had moved through and all that.
James McDonald looked at it and says, no, the weather records don't support that there had been rain earlier in the afternoon but not at 11 o'clock at night when the sightings began.
Does it surprise you?
That the Roswell records, that one would think would be very, very, very important, have been, according to the military, lost?
I don't think they're lost.
I think they have them.
I think the problem was the questions were poorly phrased, and it went to specific places where the records wouldn't be kept anymore.
So that they could say, well, we have no records that are responsive to your request.
Which is not to say that the records don't exist, it's just that the way you phrased your question might have been wrong.
Actually, it seems to me a U.S.
Representative got that answer, and that they actually came back and said they cannot be located lost.
Stephen Schiff, he was the Congressional Representative for the Roswell District of New Mexico at the time, and he asked questions about it, and they said that some of the records from Roswell had been destroyed, or improperly destroyed at the time, And I mean, as an intelligence officer, part of my duties was to destroy classified material that was out of date.
But if it was classified secret or above, you had to specify specifically what the title of the document was and what the date of it was, so you could demonstrate that it was destroyed.
If it was confidential or below, you could just say we destroyed the confidential material and let it go at that.
But these records would have been classified higher than that, so there should be a record of their destruction.
They did say that some of the communications records had been missing from the Roswell area at that time, and I'm not sure that is significant given the way some of these things are treated.
But they found no records.
The only thing, they found the FBI document that we've all had for years.
They couldn't even find a copy that hadn't been redacted.
We all had copies so that the names that had been blacked out, we knew who they were.
And what was being said in the document.
They found that document, they found some other things, but they didn't really find anything that was responsive.
The Air Force then put out this great, huge report, which is basically a whole lot of nonsense about balloon projects in New Mexico at the time, and a lot of documentation of that, which is wholly irrelevant, and claiming, well, see, it was this flight number four from Project Mogul that fell, and that was what fooled everybody, and Mogul was this highly classified project.
The purpose was classified, but the stuff they were doing in New Mexico was not classified.
The name MOGA was known to the people who were doing it.
They were using regular weather balloons, and the flight the Air Force pointed to, which was flight number four, the man who was running the experiments in New Mexico, a guy named Dr. Albert Crary, wrote in his diary that the June 4th launch had been cancelled.
Because of clouds.
They couldn't launch these things if there was clouds in the area, according to the CAA regulations they were operating under.
So there was no flight number four to drop the debris, so they have no explanation for what fell at Roswell.
But it gets very convoluted when you look at the minutiae that you have to go through to get to it, because the Air Force came out with the report and said, well, it was flight number four, and the news media said, oh, it was flight number four, it was a secret balloon, let's go with that.
And they don't understand all the other things, all the ancillary things that are going on around that.
So, Roswell now is a long time ago.
I take it, your view, it was real.
Something did crash.
It was recovered.
And what about the story of the creatures that were recovered?
You think that's also authentic?
Well, first of all, everybody agrees.
Skeptic, debunker, believer, whatever.
Everybody agrees something fell at Roswell.
We just disagree about what it was.
Right.
No, my question was... Given the evidence that I've seen, the people I've talked to, I believe it was extraterrestrial.
And there is a body of testimony from some very credible people that alien creatures were recovered.
All right.
But hold on.
We're at a break, so we'll be back shortly.
This is Midnight in the Desert.
I'm Art Bell.
The heart of the city is beating.
And if you don't love me now You will never love me again.
And I feel insane.
I'm not going to keep on waiting.
I'm going to keep on waiting.
I'm not going to keep on waiting.
That's 1952.
Call Art.
Alright, at this hour, we're getting breaking news.
A number of suspects apparently cornered in a building in the Paris suburb of Saint-Denis.
There has been gunfire reported.
So, that's breaking at this hour.
Ongoing and fluid at this hour.
I don't imagine they'll be treated gently, although I would think they actually would want to get some alive so they can find out more about all of this.
But maybe they're not particularly interested in that much information.
You know, you can imagine the police and military in France are more than a little upset about what's going on, as they should be.
Whether anybody comes out of this live or not, we'll have to wait and see.
Anyway, that's ongoing at this hour.
Once again, here is my guest, Kevin Randall.
Hi, Kevin.
Hi, how are you doing?
Okay, trying to keep up on events as they continue to occur.
So, I've got sort of an overarching question for you, Kevin, and that is this.
We had, Roswell, we had a number of things that have happened since.
And I tried this out on Linda, and she gave me a different answer, but it seems to me that in years since the fifties, the number of UFO reports has been trailing off.
Now, I could be way off about that and wrong, but I mean, we have a world that carries high-resolution cameras around on its hip or in its pocketbook now, and you would think that the number of pictures of UFOs, if they really are Hovering around out there would be drastically increasing, or perhaps the number of UFOs hanging around out there actually isn't what it was.
What's your view?
You know, Carl Flock and I talked about this a number of years ago, and what we looked at was the number of robust cases.
Like, you got in the late 1940s, 1950s, into the 60s, up to about 1973 when they had the
big occupant sighting wave in November of 1973.
And then it trails off from that point, just as you say, and it's just not the same kind
You still get the lights in the sky, you still get some of that stuff, but you just don't get the numbers.
And we wondered if it wouldn't be like a college expedition into an area where you found something interesting, an archaeological find.
You've gone in there, you've gathered all your data, and now you're back home analyzing it, preparing for your next expedition.
And we wondered if it wasn't something like that.
The problem I have with the availability of cameras is it is so easy in today's world to fake a good UFO video.
And it's very difficult to tell whether it's faked or not.
And that's the problem I have with the UFO videos today.
There's so many of them.
I had a friend, Russ Estes, who a number of years ago made a UFO tape, UFO sighting, digital sighting.
And he made the UFO look really, really hokey because he didn't want to find it on the internet
at some point.
You're telling me, wait a minute, wait a minute, you're telling me, wait a minute, hold it,
you're telling me he faked?
Well, but he did it on purpose to demonstrate how simple it was to fake a really good one.
And he made the UFO hokey so you could tell it was fake.
But he showed it coming across the sky, he made the comments that you would make, oh
my God, what can that be and that sort of thing.
But he made it in such a way that it was clear that it was faked.
The point being simply, That in today's environment, with the computer equipment that's available to practically everybody, that a ten-year-old kid could make a very convincing UFO video.
The other thing that I noticed in my research was that about 99% of the UFO pictures were taken by teenage boys, and 99% of those are faked.
And we have seen a lot of the great pictures from the 50s and 60s.
The people who took them have come out and said, yeah, I'd fake that.
The one exception is the Lubbock Lights from 1952 or 1951, taken by Carl Hart Jr.
I was on part of the Roswell investigation in Lubbock in 1995, and I picked up the phone book and looked up Carl Hart just on a lark.
And he had a phone number, so I called him.
To see what he had to say.
And?
And he said, I mean, here's a guy who is now in his 60s.
If he was going to admit that he'd faked it, now was the time to do it.
But he said, I still don't know what I photographed.
He wasn't sure it was alien.
He wasn't sure it was extraterrestrial.
He was just puzzled about what he had photographed.
He didn't know what it was, but he did not fake it.
So there's the exception to the rule.
He was 19 when he made the photographs.
And, you know, like I said, I talked to him in the mid-1990s, so he was a much older gentleman.
And a lot of the people, the teenagers, the young men who fake the UFO photographs will come forward and say, yeah, I faked those.
Do you, Kevin, go to recent movies?
For example, did you see San Andreas?
No.
No.
I saw The Martian.
The Martian.
Okay, good.
That's fine.
That's a good example.
CGI has come so far, Kevin, that... Oh, yes.
You know, what we see on the screen can be made to look more real than real.
So, the end of, you know, it's over.
I mean, anything can be faked, and it can be faked to look really, really good.
My experience is that if you have a blurry UFO photograph, everybody goes, ah, another blurry photograph.
If it's too clear, they go, ah, it's too clear.
Yes, I've run into that too.
No matter what you do in the way of the UFO spectrum, they're going to complain about it for some reason.
But that was my point, is that the computer generated graphics, images, that you can do on your home computer can look so real.
that you don't need a Hollywood studio. In the 1950s there were two wonderful
movies taken of UFOs. One in Great Falls, Montana in 1950 and one in
Tremonton, Utah in 1952. And they're basically lights in the sky
but they were taken on 16 millimeter movie camera and to do something like that the people would have
had to have some sophisticated Hollywood equipment to assist them in it.
Today's world, you know, my home computer can do that sort of thing and generate much better UFO photographs and footage than came out of the maze of planets.
Alright, so then, in this modern day and age that you and I just documented, what in the world can we do to separate the wheat from the chaff anymore?
You know, even in terms of pictures, stories, whatever.
Well, it's the same investigative problem that we've always had.
It comes back to the credibility of the witness who took the pictures.
Is it a teenage boy?
Well, there's a credibility problem right there.
But if you understand the background of it, if there's more than a single witness, if there's independent witnesses, what would be ideal is people in three separate locations photographing the same thing.
And that way you could triangulate on it, you could get an idea of distance, there's been some of that.
Look at Phoenix and the lights in Phoenix.
How about that one?
But you've got, you could not put together the triangulation that you could if you've got still footage.
There were problems with, some of it was clearly flares, some of it was clearly a huge triangular shaped craft moving across the state of Arizona.
And the photographic footage, you could not use it to triangulate that way, unfortunately.
But we need something like that, where you've got the people at multiple locations, photographing the same thing at the same time, and independently discovering these witnesses, so you get their stories, you could get measurements from the photographs that they made.
And we just don't get that sort of thing, and I was wondering, There was a picture taken of a meteor skipping back out of the atmosphere, taking over the Grand Tetons.
And I don't know how long ago, I've seen the picture.
It's a wonderful picture of this meteor.
And there were people all over that part of Wyoming that got pictures, and a guy from Des Moines, Iowa actually got movie footage of it.
Wonderful, wonderful filming.
You're thinking, well, if we can do that with a meteor, which is a very short-lived event, and something in the daylight like that, that you could actually film, why don't we have UFO sightings like that?
And the answer is, because that meteor was 50 miles up in the sky, or higher, when it skipped out of the atmosphere, and the UFOs are normally operating at much lower altitudes, so you don't have the wide range of people seeing that sort of thing.
So, that's the kind of thing that we need.
I know that Ted Phillips, in his Landing Traces, he would...
Tell you that if you gave him information from measurements that you took in the landing trace, he could tell you what kind of crap the people would have seen.
Which suggests a certain amount of repeatability and suggests a certain amount of scientific research that could be done.
I was always impressed by the UFOs that appeared over our missile silos, Kevin.
There was an awful lot of cooperation of that, not only that, but it would seem an odd time for the missile silos to shut down.
And then there was a similar incident in Russia.
It seems to me that if UFOs are here, they would be certainly interested in our, I don't know, military capability, where we are, what we can do, that sort of thing.
What do you think?
Oh, absolutely!
But we have to look at it from the other point of view.
If you've got an outside source, which the UFO was, and it could shut down the missile system so they could not launch, now you've got a national security issue.
Oh, yeah!
Kevin, the whole thing is a national security issue.
If you have things going through, wait a minute, going through your atmosphere at thousands of miles an hour, Kevin, and they are tracked by radar, and you don't know what they are and you can't stop them, You have a national security issue.
That's not quite the same as an object hovering over a missile complex and shutting down the missiles.
Not quite the same, but still a national security issue.
But shutting down the missiles, if the Soviets couldn't figure out how to do it, or we couldn't figure out how to do it to the Soviets, I mean you've just suddenly Changed the balance of power.
Right.
And so that became, in the sightings in Malmstrom Air Force Base in 1967, where they shut down the missile silos, and the Condon Committee was investigating that, and interesting, the guy who was the UFO officer at Malmstrom was a guy named Lewis, who was the pilot-in-command of the RB-47 sighting from 1957, which is kind of an interesting coincidence.
But when the Condon Committee went to investigate, They said, well, you know, we can't tell you it's classified.
And the guy says, well, we have clearance.
And he said, no, this is national security.
And it's because they were shutting down the missiles.
And that's the key right there.
You've got something that the Condon Committee actually knew was a national security issue.
And they said, well, it doesn't affect national security.
Well, that affected it.
Immensely.
And I think it scared a lot of people that something was able to shut down the missiles so they could not launch them.
They eventually came up with some kind of cockamamie explanation about an EMP, an Electromagnetic Pulse, from an atomic explosion that had taken place sometime in the past.
What, what, what, what?
Pardon me?
That's ridiculous.
Absolutely ridiculous!
EMPs are instant.
They had an explanation and they were happy with that because they could give that to the public and the public doesn't understand what EMP or didn't understand what EMPs were and that sort of thing.
And these things are supposed to be shielded so the EMP does not affect them.
So that made it an issue of national security that is much more ominous than them flying through the atmosphere at several thousand miles an hour and our fighters cannot catch up to them.
Well that's upsetting as well.
Yes, because the Air Force is supposed to be able to keep our skies clear of foreign invaders, whomever they are.
And clearly they weren't able to do that, but they palmed that part of national security off.
But when it came down to the missile silos, they became very paranoid about that.
It seems to me the end of the Blue Book operation was something that said that whatever these things are, they're not a threat to national security or something like that.
They said that they pose no threat to national security and further study would not result in anything of a scientific value being learned.
And the Air Force was wasting its time.
And that was a result of the Condon Committee investigation at the University of Colorado.
And what you have to look at from that is, 30% of the sightings in the Condon Report were not explained.
One of them was explained as a natural phenomenon, so rare it had never been seen before or since.
And I'm thinking, to my unscientific mind, that if you've identified a natural phenomenon that rare, maybe something of a scientific value could be learned by attempting to study that.
And then they said the Air Force had done a good job of their investigation.
And you look at a letter written by a Lieutenant Colonel named Hippler to the Condon Committee before they started their investigation, and Hippler outlined exactly what they wanted the Condon Committee to find, and the Condon Committee found exactly those sorts of things.
I mean, he layered it out.
Say some nice things about what the Air Force has done.
It doesn't pose a threat to national security, and we should conclude the investigation.
That's what the Condon Committee said.
Condon was at a speech in Corning, New York, 18 months before the end of the study period, and he said to the scientists there, I'm inclined to tell them that there's nothing to this and they should end this thing right now, but I'm not supposed to reach that conclusion for another 18 months.
So, I mean, we've got all that evidence that the Condon Committee was a put-up job, and yet we still have scientists citing it as proof that there's no such thing as UFOs.
Alright, now, with respect to what I asked you a little while ago, all the stuff that went on in the 50s, in the 40s and 50s, when it was really just going nuts, I mean, even over the Lighthouse, UFOs were all over the place, and people did get pictures of them, but as we Positive a little while ago, everybody's got a camera now, the sightings are down.
Do you think it's possible that whoever they are, they took a look at us, they assessed us, and there's not much coming around anymore?
I think, and that's kind of what Carl Flock and I discussed, was that they came, they gathered their information as quickly as they could, which took several years, and then they went home to analyze it.
And so they're in the process of analyzing and setting up their next expedition to Earth to see what's going on.
I think, personally, Carl Sagan said at one point that we could expect a visitation from an alien race once every 10,000 years.
He didn't tell me when we could start counting that.
But I'm thinking if I'm a space-faring race and I come to Earth even 5,000 years ago, and I see the beginnings of civilization, I see intelligent life, I'm going to want to come back frequently to see how that intelligent life is developing and what they're doing.
So you would expect them to make more visitations as our societies grew, as our civilization grew.
But in the last, what, 25, 30 years, we just don't see that sort of thing going on.
And the conclusion that I've sort of come to is they're home.
Analyzing the data they collected.
If you look at the 1973 sightings, the last two weeks in October, all of November, the first two weeks in December, you've got a lot of sightings of the craft on the ground.
You've got a lot of sightings of the occupants.
You've got a lot of abduction cases.
And it looks like they're gathering data.
They're gathering data.
They're not analyzing it.
They're gathering it to take home so they can analyze it once they get back to their home worlds.
You know, that makes some sense to me.
It would explain why we don't get the robust sightings that we used to get.
And I think maybe another problem is we are now more sophisticated, meaning that things that would have fooled us 50 years ago, we identify now as something natural.
We understand what that natural phenomenon is, and so we don't bother reporting what would have been a UFO.
Okay, well, what you just said would suggest that the phenomenon never was real.
And isn't real now?
No, no, no, no.
Because if you look at it, it says that 95% of the sightings that were reported to the Air Force were identified.
Well, that turns out not to be true either, by the way.
Well, you know, I'm open to everything.
When I say I'm a skeptic, if UFOs are not real, I can live with it, Kevin.
It's not going to end my life.
I do a show about this sort of thing, but I'm seeking the real truth.
Oh, me too.
You do.
And the thing is, you have to look at all the evidence, and there's an awful lot of people, especially when we go back into the 1940s, 1950s, that didn't understand the natural phenomenon around us.
Ball lightning, which kind of cracked me up in the 1960s before science said, yes, there is such a thing as ball lightning, the Air Force actually used that as an explanation for a UFO case.
And I'm thinking, how can you use a phenomenon that is not scientifically proven to explain something else that's unusual?
But I think if you look at the sighting reports that we get today, we don't get as many Reports of things that can be explained as natural phenomenon.
We've become more sophisticated in what we're seeing.
Well, I think, Kevin, if the government doesn't want us to believe in UFOs, then they've taken exactly the wrong tack.
I remember when they did their big presentation about Roswell, and they put the dummies on TV, and it was the most laughable insult to intelligence that you could ever imagine.
And it's like, you know, once they put on something like that, it's like, what a bunch of lying idiots.
Then of course it must be true.
But the thing is, if you watch the news conference, which of course I did.
I did too.
You can see the reporters laughing at them.
I know.
But now, 20 years later, The reporters are saying, well, the Air Force explained all that as these anthropomorphic dummies that were rocking in high altitude tests.
Yeah, well, today's press, you cannot compare today's media, the lazy bums in the media today, to then.
There's just no comparison.
Well, that's true, too.
That's absolutely true, but I understand what you're saying.
I mean, we were all laughing about that.
But today, I think the news media today, they want to think of themselves as so sophisticated, they don't believe in UFOs and nobody else should.
These two clowns in New Jersey launched a number of hot air, meteorological balloons with flares attached to them to prove how credulous UFO sighters are and investigators are.
And if you go back and you look at The investigation, you see that the UFO investigators, Mark D'Antonio from MUFON, their photographic expert, looked at the videotape and said immediately, that's either fell hairs on a balloon or Chinese lanterns.
I mean, he identified it immediately.
And you talk to some of the police officers, and they knew it was balloons with flares on it.
And you listen to the witness statements.
They're explaining exactly what they saw.
They're not bringing in aliens.
They're not talking spacecraft.
I saw these lights, they traveled across the sky, they didn't make any noise, and in one point they seemed to be flickering, and the news commentator commented on that, and the woman who'd seen it said, no, no, that's because it was passing behind the trees.
And so that's why it seems to be flickering that way.
They explained exactly what they wanted, but you get the news media, and you've got some reporter out there, and she's interviewing a little kid with her lollipop, and asked the little kid, well, do you think there's aliens?
Where did that come from?
That's preposterous.
We're interviewing a kid and we're talking about aliens, but they're too sophisticated to believe in this stuff, so they mock it, because they don't understand it.
Kevin, if the UFO phenomenon, whatever it is or isn't, is true, how is it the U.S., and we are the main people that do this, have been able to keep the lid on it for so long now?
Well, interesting you brought that up, because in the UFO dossier, I was looking at the Australian investigation of UFOs and the guy that wrote the original report in Australia had quoted some stuff from Don Kehoe about his opinions on UFOs and the government conspiracy to hide the information.
The Australian Air Force got the report and they called and asked the US Air Force, what's going on with this Kehoe guy?
And the Air Force mocked Kehoe and said, well, he's a liar.
He's just out trying to make money.
He's just drawing all these conclusions based on things that he's made up.
The documents he's saying existed don't exist and all that sort of thing.
So the Air Force, the Australian Air Force, believing the United States Air Force on this, Uh, wasn't very interested in UFOs.
Turned out that we can now sit here in 2015 and look at what Kehoe was saying and say, yeah, Kehoe was basically right.
Kehoe had it on the money.
He was talking about documents that existed.
He had talked to people on the inside who was telling him what was going on.
But the U.S.
Air Force, and I probably should make it clear that the guys, the U.S.
Air Force guys talking to the Australian Air Force guys, may not have been feed into what was going on.
They were just responding to what, what, uh, Their superiors had told them, but the U.S.
Air Force kind of drove the Australian investigation and set it into the same tumbling atmosphere that our UFO investigation was, so that the people don't know what they're seeing, they're making mistakes and all of this sort of thing, and it turns out that there's some very good cases that came out of Australia.
But that's kind of how they do it, and if you look at the Rendlesham Forest case, which is the Air Force guys seeing the object in the woods in Rendlesham
Forest in Great Britain.
And I think it was Nick Pope who was in the Ministry of Defense at one point,
pointed out that the documentation that was exchanged between the United States and Great Britain at the time
was the Americans saying, well this happened on British soil, it's your baby, it's your hot potato,
You need to deal with it.
And the British were saying, no, no.
It was American airmen stationed at an American base that made the sightings.
You guys need to deal with it.
And so they're arguing about who's going to deal with this thing, and nothing's getting done.
And our airmen, Burroughs and Pendleton specifically, were apparently injured by their close approach to the UFO.
And I think Burroughs just recently got a full disability from the Air Force, admitting that he was injured In the line of duty, not admitting that there was a UFO involved.
No, that is true.
I interviewed him, uh, oh, just a month ago.
I've known him for quite a long time.
So, but I mean, the point is they were busy arguing about whose responsibility it was to investigate this case.
Neither one wanting to do it.
Just in case something comes of this, Kevin, I'm getting word that at about 8.15 p.m.
there was a major sighting somewhere in South Orange County.
They're seeing military helicopters looking for something in South Orange County.
Somebody else may have seen it or know what's going on.
I just wanted to mention that while we're sitting here saying there hasn't been much lately.
There you go.
Just wanting to prove us wrong.
I guess, yeah.
Well, we've had some good sightings.
We had the Chicago O'Hare sightings in 2008.
We had the Stevensville sightings, which were very good.
We had, well, you go back to 1986 and we had the Japanese JL I think was what, 1628 flight?
Oh yes.
radar track and the complete radar records exist so that the FAA was able to recreate the sighting sort of in real time the whole 28 minutes or 32 minutes or whatever it was and I talked to John Callahan about that and he was a you know they they could watch the object on the radar screen and what was what was going on so he didn't have an explanation for it he said that he'd gone to the White House to brief somebody about that sighting And there were a number of CIA guys there, and the CIA guys said to him, we were never here.
Don't talk about this.
So he had all this data, good evidence, the instrumentality being involved in the sighting, not only that and the witness statements.
I was never able to figure out whether there were two ground-based radar stations involved or one, because it seemed that there was one site picking up the radar images, but it was transmitted to the Air Force and to the FAA, and they used different filters and discriminators on it, so it may have been a single radar source on the ground, but the radar on the airplane also saw the object.
Chairman, it seems to me, if this is an advanced race that's come light years to get to us, Uh, for reconnaissance or whatever reason they're here for.
If they don't want to be seen, Kevin, it seems to me they would have the technology to completely escape any sort of detection at all.
And the fact that we do see them, to me, says that they don't mind that they're being seen and or they want to be seen.
I hate to quote Philip Klass, but he did make a good point by saying if they don't want to be seen, why don't they turn off their lights?
Well, yeah.
And it's a good point, but I think it's really a case of in some instances they don't want to be seen and we really can't detect them, and in other cases they just really don't care whether we see them or not.
You know, our stealth technology is such that we can, you know, some of our stealth aircraft are virtually invisible to radar.
If they're flying around at night, you won't be able to see them.
Sound dampers on them and all of this stuff so that you may not be able to hear them.
So they're virtually indetectable at night.
We're at a break here.
Kevin Randall is my guest.
we're talking about youth college.
It's a time of great joy.
To call Midnight in the Desert, please dial 1-952-CALL-ART.
That's 1-952-225-5278.
952 Call Art, that's 1 952 225 5278.
My guest is Kevin Randall and for many years, I guess almost all his adult life,
he has been investigating ufology. And when I said earlier that, you know, really in recent years,
there have not been that many gigantic UFO sightings, something on the level of Roswell,
of course, we've had the Phoenix lights, but I frankly expected him to disagree with me,
as Linda Moten-Howe did, and as Peter Davenport did. And they both think that actually UFOs
are on the increase.
Let me do this, let me ask about the latter part of your book, Kevin, which documents an awful lot of humanoid encounters, encounters with alien beings in your book.
What can you tell us about those?
What I did was, I wanted to bring the book into the 21st century, naturally, and Peter Davenport was actually helpful with this as well.
But I got in touch with a number of people who have been collecting UFO sightings and so what I have there is the raw data thinking that others may wish to investigate the case. If the case is in your backyard, for
example, you might be interested in trying to find out a little bit more about it.
So I'm trying to encourage others to take a look at some of these cases.
And I settled on the humanoid cases because I found those to be more
interesting than the lights in the sky. I mean, lights in the sky are basically
lights in the sky and it really doesn't advance our knowledge to investigate
But if you've got a humanoid report where something's going on, on the ground or close to the ground, then you've got something that's a lot more interesting and a lot more robust.
Okay, so you reported on what people have said, but did not investigate these yourself?
In very few cases I did not investigate.
Now I had a lot of raw data and I eliminated some of it simply because it seemed to me to be quite credulous.
Some of it was not in the United States and in those cases I wanted to focus on the United States for obvious reasons but I just thought that this raw data would be of interest to people and I know that when I was First, beginning my UFO investigations, this sort of data would have been very valuable to me, especially if I could find something from around my home turf.
And that was what I did when I lived in Texas, when I was on active duty in the Army and I lived in Texas.
I would go out to the UFO sighting areas in Texas, in fact went to Aurora, Texas to talk to them about the UFO crash there in 1897 and actually talked to some people Because this was the early 1970s.
I talked to people who had been alive in 1897 and remembered or alleged to have remembered some of the events that took place then.
So I thought that this kind of raw data would be of interest to people and allow them to get more engaged in UFO research.
They might find an explanation.
There was a case here in Iowa where a man and a woman had seen a number of UFOs coming close to the ground And the woman reported that she'd seen the two alien shapes in the lights.
And I went out and talked to her, and she had a very robust story.
I went out and talked to him, and he said, I don't know what she's talking about, because all we saw were lights.
And I went to the actual location where they'd seen the UFOs and realized what they had seen, and that they were close to the municipal airport.
And the landing pattern was right.
You got the impression of these lights coming down out of the sky and just sort of disappearing Behind the trees, and that I am convinced what they saw.
But it was an opportunity for me to go out and investigate a case on my own and learn something about it and get some insight about how these things transpired.
So that was kind of the point of putting these sightings at the end of the book, is to bring it into the 21st century but give people an opportunity to go out and investigate on their own.
Okay, let's talk about Stokes.
That's one you looked into, right?
Yes, and I would have told you Before we did the book, that I didn't believe the case.
I thought he was making the thing up, because that was basically the Air Force conclusion.
This was 1957, again, not long after the Leveland sightings.
And you go back and you look at the Air Force file on the Stokes case.
Stokes was an engineer at White Sands, Hullam Air Force Base.
And he said that he was going from Alamogordo to El Paso, and the road there goes to a place called Oro Grande, and he came to a place where there's a number of cars stalled, and his car began to stall, and he pulled over the road, and there were six or seven cars there, and they were watching this UFO overhead swing by and do some things, and after it disappeared, he realized he had a light, like a light sunburn on part of his face and on part of his arm, where he was looking out the window of the car.
When he got back to Alamogordo, He called his boss and told him what he'd seen and what had happened.
His boss actually alerted the media.
The skeptics say, well, the first thing he did was call the media.
No, he didn't do that.
He called his boss.
His boss called the media.
Cora Lorenzen from APRO and her husband, Jim, lived in Alamogordo at the time, so they got in touch with Stokes.
He went to the radio station.
They saw this reddishness on his arm and his face.
That he had the light sunburn.
They talked to him.
They got an interview with him.
The Air Force finally investigated a couple of days later.
They said, well, we saw no evidence of the sunburn.
Well, yeah, faded by then, guys.
Come on.
And they said, well, you know, he said there were six cars.
Then he said there were seven cars.
Well, he didn't count the cars.
Who cares?
He provided a drawing.
And so you can see how many cars were lined up there.
The only problem with the case is he provided the names of two people.
Who may have been working at White Sands, but nobody ever found those guys to corroborate his story.
But he went to the hospital.
He was treated in the hospital.
The news media, the radio station guy there interviewed him.
He thought it was very credible.
He put it on the news wire, and then of course the news media went nuts over this thing.
But it's an interesting case, and the Air Force wrote it off and said, Stokes claimed to be an engineer and he's not.
Well, he'd been a 20-year man in the Navy.
He was working as an engineer at Holloman Air Force Base.
His boss referred to him as an engineer.
And not long after this event, got promoted into a position of more responsibility.
So everybody saw him as an engineer.
So the fact he said he was an engineer, but he didn't have formal training, who cares?
That's the kind of smear they would do to these people.
Well, he said he was an engineer.
We can find nothing, no college credits to suggest that.
Yeah, he's working as an engineer.
What else do you call him?
Let's come back to present time, Kevin.
Do you know whether or not the U.S.
government is actively still doing UFO investigations. I would think they would be,
despite their statement that it's not a threat to national security,
that something's flying around in our skies.
I would say this, that the FBI was required to investigate UFO sightings, simply because that's their mission.
But, Project Blue Book closed in 1969, and they said, we're all done.
We don't investigate UFOs anymore.
This is something they'd done before.
Originally, it was Project Sign in 1947.
They said, well, we studied this.
We couldn't find anything.
We've closed Project Sign.
What they did was change the name to Project Grudge and keep on investigating.
In the early 1950s, they did the same thing.
They said, well, we've had this big report.
There's nothing to it.
We're not investigating.
They changed the name to Blue Book and kept right on investigating.
So, you think it's still going on today?
We know what it became.
It became Project Moondust.
Well, Moondust began in 1957, but Moondust had a UFO component to it, and it was being investigated.
It investigated UFO sightings.
Moondust investigated UFO sightings.
Senator Jeff Bingaman from New Mexico wrote to the U.S.
Air Force, the United States Senator Jeff Bingaman, and said, I'd like to know something about Project Moondust.
And the Air Force response is, there's no such mission.
When the Air Force was presented with the documentation that was inadvertently released through FOIA by the State Department that says Project Moondust on it, and it says UFO on it, the Air Force said, we'd like to amend our last statement.
Moondust did exist, but we never used it.
I found at least 13 instances where Moondust was deployed.
into foreign nations to study UFO, to pick up UFO related materials.
Why, Kevin, when there are UFO reports in Australia, does the Australian government defer comment or investigation to the US government?
I've been wondering about that forever.
They didn't really defer to it.
They asked the U.S.
Air Force, the U.S.
Government, what they thought of UFOs, and they figured that the United States was the experts on this, because we've been running these investigations for so long and talking about it.
And so they deferred to the United States.
They assumed they were getting the straight dope from the United States, that there's nothing to this.
And we can now show that, like I said before, that there was something to it, and the Air Force was At best, simply, the officers who were responding to the Australians were simply misinformed.
That's the simplest explanation.
Or they were purposely misguiding the Australians.
So you've got that sort of thing going on.
But it's clear that this investigation... In 1985, when Moondust was compromised, I think it was Robert Todd sent a letter to the FOIA request asking what the new name of the project was
and he was told it is properly classified and not releasable.
So all they did was change the name from Moondust to something else and we have not found out what that name was.
But as late as 1985 we knew they were still investigating UFOs based on the documentation.
Based on all your years of research, Kevin, do you think that the aliens or whoever they are, are here to in some
way harm us in the long run or do you think they are here to help us?
There are many who believe they're here to help us.
I don't think it's either.
I think they're just here to see what's going on and study the course of our civilization.
See where we're going.
I see nothing to suggest they're hostile unless you subscribe to David Jacob's theory that they're interbreeding with us.
In creating a race of hybrids for some nefarious purpose.
Well, I hate to say it, Kevin, but I think I do.
But I'm not sure that's... Actually, it makes all the sense in the world, Kevin.
If you want to... Just bear with me for a second.
If you want to take over a planet, Kevin, you don't need ray guns, you don't need flashes in the night, cities destroyed.
It's a far more elegant way to do it, to take it over slowly, to make genetic changes,
and to infiltrate bit by bit by bit. It makes much more sense than
you know the classic invasion story with big ships and destructive rays and all of that. Yeah, but the big
invasion stories are a lot more fun.
But no, I understand exactly what you're saying and that's my thought as too.
You modify the population, or your population for that matter, because you're doing it both, to inhabit this environment that we have created, the environment we have here.
But I guess you can look at that as hostile intent.
I do.
It's certainly not benign, but I've always thought of them as being not Well, look, Kevin, if that would be true, if they're, let's say, taking human fetuses that are partially developed and taking these from women who have been pregnant and suddenly are not pregnant, a lot of information about all of that, then to me that's hostile.
I don't know how to put it.
It's insidious and it's hostile.
Insidious is a good word for it.
It's certainly insidious, and it's certainly a way of opening up a planet to your populations.
Right.
Don't feel obligated to agree with me at all.
No.
I'm struggling with the concept of hostility, I guess.
Because it seems to be much more benign than the alien invasion that is so much fun in the movies.
And I've never understood that anyway, why they would have to invade us the way they always do in the movies, but that's a whole other argument.
Well, they wouldn't have to.
From what I can see, we're a fairly rare planet.
You know, we have a lot of resources.
You seem to be in the so-called Goldilocks zone.
We might be attractive to aliens in one way or the other, and they may be tracking us, they may be developing us.
But I'm thinking, if you're looking at the elements we have, you don't need to come this deep into the solar system to find that sort of thing.
Well, we don't know that.
You've got the Kuiper Belt that has the minerals and all of that involved in it.
Yeah, but you're talking about things.
I'm talking about, you know, how rare is intelligent life.
Yes, I understand that and I was getting to that point.
I'm just saying, if you're interested in that sort of thing, then you don't need to come to Earth to get it.
If you're interested in the fact that the planet's in the Goldilocks zone, and you need a space for your people, then the Earth becomes much more attractive, because we're in the Goldilocks zone.
So, it really depends on what your mission is and what you're looking for to do.
And I just don't...
I struggle with the hostility of it because it seems to be rather benign the way they're
doing it, but it is an attempt to take over without firing a shot.
Well, yeah.
I mean, if you were a woman and you had a pregnancy, and then one day suddenly it was Gone, and you had some sort of encounter, you might consider it very hostile indeed.
And if somebody's playing with our genetic structure, until I know otherwise, to me that seems rather hostile.
Yes, yes, yes.
I understand what you're saying.
Alright, let's take a few calls.
Hello there, on the phone, you're on the air with Kevin Randall, hi.
I'd like to ask Kevin a question with regards to kick 846-2852 or tabby as they have it.
Sure.
And possibly issue a statement of my own feelings and proofs, if you want to hear it.
Okay, ask the question first.
Oh, that's not fair.
Yes it is.
The question is, what are his feelings toward the most recent interpretation in what I think
is disinformation as far as what is going on?
Okay, there has been no more recent determination I'm aware of, other than the megastructures that were mentioned, and the dips in luminosity.
So, if you have something newer than that, I'm listening.
Yeah, the Dinosphere, which would have to be an incomplete Dinosphere, would... You mean a Dyson Sphere, right?
Yeah, yes, Dyson Sphere, sorry.
They had, the last I had heard on them, seen it on that, is they were estimating that they had an oblique spheroid star, which was pulsing and looking rather strange, and they had graphed out some graphs indicating what they Okay, but you're not telling me anything new.
I was aware of what they've got and the graphs.
I've seen them.
We have them up on the website.
from spatial observations.
My own personal background is in sciences and chemistry and things like that, looking
at graphs and traces of hyperbolic, super-promotonic, everything.
Okay, but you're not telling me anything new.
I was aware of what they've got and the graphs.
I've seen them.
We have them up on the website.
So what's new?
I did not believe those graphs really coincided with each other.
The question is, does he believe this oblique spheroid possibility, or is it something with misconjecture and disinformation?
Okay.
In other words, Kevin, do you think there is really something there, or do you think they're just, you know... I think there's something there.
And I think it's interesting that one of the conclusions being drawn is that it's an artificial construct.
And that's an exciting possibility.
Can it be something natural that we haven't observed in other parts of the galaxy?
Absolutely.
But I think the most exciting prospect is that it's something artificial.
I think that's an exciting possibility, and I'm looking forward to them determining exactly what they're seeing there, and if it is suggestive of alien intelligence.
Of course, they wouldn't be aliens in their home world, but alien to us.
Right.
Well, I couldn't quite figure out where he was headed there.
I think the information is still the same.
The spacecraft, the telescope has not been repaired, so the information remains what we had.
All right, we're going to take a break right here.
Kevin Randall is my guest from the high desert.
This is Midnight in the Desert.
a cold, cold weather.
I'm going to be a little bit more careful.
Don't bother asking for an explanation.
She'll tell you that she came in the year of the cat.
To initiate a dialogue sequence with Art Bell, please direct your finger digits and call 1-952-225-5275.
That's 1-952.
Call Art.
Hi, everybody.
Alright, I'm trying to follow breaking news from Paris as we continue with the Kevin Randall interview.
Certainly, the suspects are pinned down.
It was known that one of those suspects did not set off his vest.
He probably is still in possession of that vest.
So, that could explode, I suppose.
We know there's gunfire going on.
It's a very, very fluid situation.
And I'm going to try to continue to update you as I can.
But these are ongoing events, and I want to be very careful not to say something that is simply not true at this hour.
Just know that they do have them pinned down, or some of them pinned down.
So, here we go.
Let's go back to Kevin and the phone line, and let's go to Las Vegas for Kevin Randall.
Hi.
Hi.
I have some information about the Travis Walton situation.
That case was investigated, when it happened, by the local MUFON office that was down in, or chapter, I guess, that was down in either the Phoenix area, it could have been up in Fountain Hills, And also, simultaneously, by another UFO organization called Ground Saucer Watch, which was also in Phoenix.
And what did they find?
Well, they came up with exactly the same scenario.
That the logging company that Walton and his friends worked for had a contract that they could not fulfill.
And that they had to come up with a story that would say that their employees were afraid to go into this one area.
Which, by the way, Travis Walton's family had a cabin right up in that area.
So this was the story that they came up with, and that the story was just a complete fraud.
This is what I was told.
Well, you know, if that's true, why do you think that ultimately they passed several lie detector exams?
I'm not talking about just one person, but the whole group.
Uh, they actually did not pass the first lie detector exam.
Well, actually one, one was, uh, excuse me, ma'am.
Um, one of them tested only as questionable.
You know, they couldn't say one way or the other.
Everybody else passed.
That's the truth.
I saw, I saw an extensive interview on television by one of the news channels in which they interviewed the man who gave the first lie detector test to him.
He was considered the finest lie detector expert in the state of Arizona and actually did the work for the FBI in Arizona and he was there and I mean they interviewed him right there and out of his own mouth came the words that he had been contacted by the National Enquirer and hired by them and they said that they did not want him To tell anybody, even in his family, where he was going.
And he said he would not do that.
And that he was, they told him he was going to this hotel where he would do the polygraph.
So they said, well, okay, they relented.
You can tell your wife, you know, what hotel you're going to be at.
He administered the lie detector tests to all of them.
And he said all of them failed.
And at that point, the National Enquirer took him into another room in the hotel.
Oh, please.
You're beginning by telling me this man is beyond reproach, the very best, and now you're telling me that he got paid off by the National Enquirer?
No, no, no.
They tried to get him to sign a document saying that he would not reveal uh... the results of the polygraph exam and he refused to
do it but ma'am he did reveal the results of the exam and they passed there was
one uh... the one guy uh... i can't remember
can't recall his name let me interject
he refused to sign the document that he would not say that they had failed
so he was free to say yes they had failed alright so
he meant they passed i mean so uh... uh...
Your point is?
That the Travis Walton whole story is just a fraud.
Actually, you've got some of the facts twisted around here.
The National Enquirer helped Jim Lorenzen and APRO finance the first polygraph examination And the guy said that he saw, I think it was actually Walton, he believed that Walton was trying to defeat the polygraph through various techniques.
And so he decided that it was an indication of deception.
Well, there was one that was inconclusive.
There was one in, excuse me Kevin, there was one result that was inconclusive.
Everybody else passed.
Not just once, but twice.
Well, that was subsequent to that.
But, I mean, I've even talked to people down there.
I lived in Arizona for almost 30 years, and I've talked to someone from GSW who was the head of GSW, and I've seen this guy interviewed, and everybody else who were the first people who were testing him and investigating, they all say that this is a completely made-up story.
And you know what?
No, they don't.
Ma'am, I'm sorry.
No, they don't.
The examiner who gave the test came up with one inconclusive from the group.
Walton and everybody else other than the inconclusive, and that's not a negative, passed.
I mean, that's a fact.
That's not what he said on television.
I did four years of public corruption investigation.
I come from a big-time newspaper family.
And you always take the first story that's told, because after that, everybody has time to cover their ass and come up with a different story.
And I will go with the guy who was head of GSW who investigated, and I'll go with the... But the GSW guys weren't the first ones to investigate it, it was Jim Lorenzen and Apro that got the case first.
Right.
And Philip Klass is the one that came up with some of this information that you're telling us now.
And Philip Klass was attempting to destroy the case.
For those who don't know, Mr. Klass is a debunker extraordinaire.
Yeah, I am aware of that, but as I say, I talked to the head of GSW, and I had talked to somebody from UFON, and I watched the extensive interview on television.
And I'm going with that.
Okay.
Well, go with that.
Thank you.
If you don't want to go with the facts, then nobody can make you do so.
I appreciate your input, ma'am, but you're wrong.
It's simple as that.
You want to add to that, Kevin?
Well, I was going to say the nonsense about the contract is something that Phil Klass spewed in an attempt to provide a motivation for them creating this tale.
But it turns out that even though they had not finished their contract on time, they got an extension and there was really no pressure on them.
Right, I was aware of that.
Financial pressure on them to do anything.
That was Philip Klass's idea.
Yeah, well, Philip.
Let's go to Troy on Skype.
Hello, Troy.
Hey, Art.
How you doing?
I'm doing okay, but you're way far away from the microphone.
I can't put you on there like that.
If you can get close to your mic, whatever you're using for a mic, if it's in your laptop.
Can you hear me now?
Oh, much better, yeah.
Awesome, Art.
So glad to be talking to you.
Big fan since I was a kid.
Kevin, same with you.
I remember reading your book UFO cases when I was like 10 or 13 years old anyway. I have
a quiet I don't want to hear that it makes me feel so old well
Where I am every night anyway go ahead, so the thing is is I was coming back from a
science competition in Yuma, Arizona and on that night it was the night of the Phoenix lights and
When we were driving back on I think was the 8th there was this weird light
It was like really late at night and it was and it was like circling around up in the sky
zigzag around and then just shot off and And we were all like, oh my god, what was that, what was that?
And then we got home and there was all these news reports about the Phoenix Lights, and I was just curious if you had heard anything else about that happening that night.
Okay.
Quite a number of reports throughout Arizona, from Tucson, I think all the way up to Kingman, A triangular shaped object.
Sometimes it was brightly lighted, sometimes it wasn't.
But there's a number of reports about that object.
I think of some of the footage from Phoenix itself that probably were flares, but there were a lot of other sightings in the area around Phoenix and throughout Arizona of a larger object that traversed the entire state.
So there's some good information and evidence of this whole thing.
Wow, yeah, no, that's exactly, that sounds pretty close to what I remember seeing, and I was in a car with other people and we've talked about it since then, but I just had no other idea because there was other stuff going on, so thank you, that's awesome.
All right, thank you very much for the call.
Glad we could help!
You bet.
All right, let's go to the phone, and South Dakota, I think.
Hi.
Hello?
Going once, going twice, Gone.
Uh, West Virginia.
Hello.
Hello.
Um, I have a thought on the whole benevolent or malevolent thing.
Um, in my opinion, if they were benevolent, you know, they would just come down.
Okay, sir.
Are you using a Bluetooth or something?
No.
Very, uh, tough connection we've got here.
Uh, anyway, whether they're friendly or unfriendly.
Go ahead.
I guess it depends what your intentions are, Kevin.
malevolent and you know they have all this genetic research technology and they can just
fiddle with whatever they want. Wouldn't it just be easier just to make a virus and send
it down to wipe the whole planet? I guess it depends what your intentions are, Kevin.
Well I've always thought of a lot of this as the prime directive, which was observe but don't meddle.
It's kind of an anthropological point of view where you observe the primitive people and see
how their society works without really injecting anything from your culture into it.
So, if you're a space-faring race, it would be much easier to observe what we're doing on Earth without getting involved in our day-to-day lives.
So I've always kind of thought of it as the prime directive, observe but don't participate.
And that's a fairly benign thing, but there's always the possibility that we're dealing with more than one race.
So one or two races may be benign and one of them is kind of malevolent.
Is that what you think?
Is that what you think, that we're dealing with many races?
I think that if you're looking at it, there probably is more than one race involved.
And I think that if there's any kind of galactic communication out there, and I don't know that there is, but if you're involved in that and you tell your pals on another star system, you know you've got to go out to take a look at Earth, see what they're doing, that it would inspire them to come and take a look at it as well.
So there may be more than one group involved.
There is some evidence, some suggestion that there's more than one race involved.
And if you look at the information from the abductees, for example, you get a wide variety of descriptions of the creatures involved.
All right.
William on Skype.
You're on the air.
Yeah, I just had a quick comment.
Well, a couple of them real fast.
One, I do a lot of Sky Watchers myself and stream them live to YouTube most nights, you know, and got clear weather anyway.
And haven't picked up anything yet, but always hoping.
So just wondered, could I give a shameless little plug to my channel?
You can.
Yeah, it's Lucky43113 on YouTube.
If anybody wants to, you know, check out some of my Sky Watchers.
But, uh, what I wanted to ask the guest was, I always had a thought of why, you know, at least our government, you know, will not disclose anything and kind of get his opinion.
Why our government won't disclose anything.
Okay.
My main thing is I don't think they're too concerned.
Like most people think, you know, public can't handle it or whatever.
The main thing I think is if they disclose that there's any extraterrestrials of any kind and they'd be giving up kind of their power, you know, they're not Well, people have thought that for a long time.
In other words, that if our government knows they are there, and our government is powerless to do anything about it, then obviously they would not want to admit that to the citizenry that it supposedly serves.
Kevin?
And that's exactly the same thing I was thinking.
You could suggest that religions might Take a bad look at it, because they're usurping their territory.
That's often been a thought, that one of the reasons they don't want to talk about it is because it shifts the balance of power.
If you go back to 1947 with the Arnold signing and all of that stuff, you can make the case that they're now dealing with something they don't understand completely.
And they're trying to get an opportunity to understand it, and they don't want to admit that they don't have all the answers.
So you've got a good reason for them to hide the information.
I mean, we just come out of a very disastrous war, and they don't want to suggest anything like that.
Why this attitude persists into the 21st century, I couldn't tell you, because I think people are sophisticated enough, and we've had enough of The fictional accounts, Star Trek, and that sort of thing that I don't think people would just come unglued about it.
And if you say, well, they've been here since 1947, they've been here since 1940, people are going to say, you know, I've lived my whole life and it's not affected me one whit.
Why do I care?
So I don't understand why the cover-up persists today.
You've got to believe me when I tell you I have talked to a number of religious people, Kevin, and if you ask them the right way, they will quite readily tell you that if a race of aliens were to land and know nothing of God, or know nothing of religion, that it would destroy their religious universe.
And I do understand that to them.
Oh, absolutely!
There is but one God.
And that God would have to be everywhere, and if that God is not everywhere, what they believe would be threatened, and I mean severely threatened.
It would upset their... They'd come right out and tell me, let's go to the phone, and South Dakota, I think... I am the Good Voice Whistle, and... You're what?
To our Native American ceremonies, you know, there are plenty of times that when we are conducting our ceremonies that There are UFOs above our ceremonies, and as we go in our ceremonies, there are, you know, there are UFOs above them, and as we conduct our ceremonies and we come out... That actually is very interesting.
Culler, hold on one second.
You gave your, I guess, Native American name, sounded like first and last, and so I hit the button on it, because we don't allow last names.
And frankly, I don't speak your language, so I couldn't know, you know, whether that was your full name or not.
But we don't allow full names on the air, so cautiously, I hit the button on that.
That'll disappear.
No, that's fine.
That's fine.
And I respect you, and I respect this conversation tonight.
Can I ask a question?
Are you Lakota?
Yes, I am.
I'm Lakota Sioux, land of Crazy Horse, Red Cloud.
So, you're Ogallala then?
Yes, I am.
Okay.
And, as we speak at our ceremonies, you know, the UFOs that you guys explain, or that you guys, I'm not Jew, are, but as the scientific world explains them, UFOs, well, They come, they come and they circle around as we come out of our ceremonies.
They blink, they drop down.
You know, they never physically show themselves, but you know, as, as the, as the world turns, you know, that's our grandfathers and we all come from Sadie's.
So as we come out of our ceremonies and we see these UFOs come down and, you know, not physically down to the land, but they blink, you know, They give us signs.
So, you know, that gives us some hope.
Now, here's what I would say.
I would say that American natives who are at least outside have a far greater chance to see a UFO than most of the rest of us who never see anything except the ceiling and the TV in front of them.
Kevin?
Well, and that was something I was going to say.
If you take a look at the statistics, you see that most people, most UFO sightings take place between 6 p.m.
and 9 p.m.
when you'd be outside barbecuing or whatever.
You know, that sort of thing.
The sightings seem to correspond when people are outside doing stuff.
In other words, if you don't look up, you're not going to see something.
Absolutely.
That's really what it boils down to, right?
Between 6 and 9, as you point out, people are outside more likely to at least Yeah, hi.
I'm trying to put all this UFO stuff together.
You know, looking at the trillions of dollars that have disappeared into black projects and, you know, we had a Lockheed talking about all this incredible technology that we'll never know about.
And then I thought of the time back in the 60s when the government determined that UFOs were not a threat to national security.
Oh yes.
I wonder sometimes if really what they meant to say is they are no longer a threat to national security.
I've often wondered, you know, we tend to personify aliens as thinking and being kind of like us in maybe our worst aspects or maybe our best aspects, but what if they're just kind of bumbling guys who, you know, a hundred thousand
years ago their civilization developed all this technology and yet this fixes itself and they don't
have to do anything except fly these things and they've just kind of lost the
connection to any kind of industrial development or any of this kind of thing and, you know, and
maybe they didn't even know how their own craft worked until we figured it out.
Kind of like trust fund aliens.
Yeah, exactly.
Well, I was going to say, there was a wonderful science fiction movie called Morons from Outer Space, and that was kind of the premises of it.
They had the technology, and they could use it, they just didn't know how to fix it or what it was good for.
I'll have to check that out.
Well, considering that these little trust fund babies may be in control of things that could destroy our entire planet, I don't know.
I hope they're not like that.
I do, too.
I prefer to think of them as like graduate students studying the Earth for their dissertations.
All right.
Let's go to Florida.
Hello there, on the phone.
Hey, how are you all doing?
When you were saying about how, like, if they came down and they had no idea of what God was or religion, that all of religion would, you know, be lost, I guess.
No, I didn't say all of religion would be lost.
I said that the people, sir, I said that the ones who called me presented with what I presented them with, said their faith would be shattered.
That's what they said.
No, I understand.
What I'm saying is I think it would be a lot more like they would be bringing a message to us, kind of like what the Europeans did when they came over to the Americas.
They brought religion with them and tried to impose this idea to the people of the Americas.
I think it would be similar with these beings coming down.
They probably have something to tell us or try to convince us to convert to.
But I also I also wanted to hear Kevin's opinion of the possibility of them being time travelers from our future, and that's one of the main reasons why the government doesn't want to disclose any of this, because they're aware of it, and they have an agreement with us from the future not to disclose anything, because it could be damaging to what
Well, it's supposed to play out, you know what I mean?
Sure.
Seems as likely as anything else.
Time travelers from the future.
Why not, Kevin?
I've always said that my opinion is, if we're dealing with an alien race from another planet, is probably the most likely explanation.
Time travelers, not quite as likely, given some of the physics involved in time travel, could be interdimensional.
So, there's a number of possibilities if you begin talking about beings and structured craft and that sort of thing, and they would need some kind of a machine to travel back in time.
So, it's a possibility.
I think more likely it is alien creatures from another star system, but time traveler is certainly a possibility.
I've often said that.
And I love time travel stories.
So do I. Very, very fond of them.
Let's go to Skype.
Phillip, you're on the air.
Hey, Mr. Hart.
Hey, Mr. Phillip.
Hey, Mr. Randall.
I had a... I sent you a wormhole on this, but I had an idea on a phone app that I haven't... I've been looking for something like it.
But, um, sort of like a, uh, an Amber Alert, uh, something.
Where UFOs?
Mm-hmm.
An Amber Alert for UFOs.
Yes.
That's actually not all that bad an idea.
I was going to say, I kind of like that.
Yeah.
I thought for a minute we're going off into the La La Land, but that's kind of a neat idea.
So, in other words, when something happens, the word would instantly get to everybody.
That's really a good idea.
Yes, that's a marvelous idea.
A close radius to the siding?
Yes.
Maybe get a triangulation.
Sure.
Get your phone out and take a picture of it.
No, I like it.
I actually like it.
I like that.
Well, I just thought I'd throw it out there.
Alright, thank you very much for doing so.
I'm getting word that One suspect in Paris apparently has blown herself up, indicating female I guess, and a suspect has been shot by a sniper.
So, there is sure breaking news going on in Paris right now, and I guess they are closing in on those who did those awful, awful attacks, or those who are left.
So, so far it looks like Two are dead, if the information I'm getting is accurate, which in a way is a shame.
I understand that they want closure on this, but if they want information, they're not going to get it from the dead.
And we now apparently have two dead in an ongoing situation in Paris.
Let's continue and go to Las Vegas.
You're on the air.
Hey Art, this is Chas calling from Las Vegas.
I'm listening to 790 and I do apologize.
I did not get on the call letters for that station.
That would be KBET actually.
And now there is one suspect alive.
I'm hearing in an apartment building.
Sorry.
I'm trying to pass this on as I'm getting it.
It's breaking news.
Go ahead sir.
No, please do Art.
Thank you.
I have a question for Mr. Randall.
Who would you consider being the new guard of investigators that you would consider passing the baton to, to carry on the field of ufology?
Who would you consider being one of the main people for the new guard, so to speak?
Oh, man.
I know there's been talk about, we geezers need to get out of the way and let the youngsters in.
The question is, where are they?
And the people I think of are in their 40s, which if you're 20 is really old, you know.
I think of people like Mark DeAngelo, who brings a scientific background to his study of the UFOs.
I think of people like that.
I don't really know many people who I would consider the new guard.
Well then you're answering the question kind of negatively in a way.
That's a little scary.
It is.
But there was an FBI document I read, and I think I mentioned it in the government UFO files, where an FBI agent had gone to a lecture in 1960 of, I think it was George Van Tassel in Denver, and he commented at the time that the audience skewed very old.
And it was little gray-haired ladies and gray-haired men, and there wasn't a lot of youngsters in the audience.
But somehow, somewhere, the youngsters like me came from to move on.
But I don't know.
I guess I don't know personally anybody.
I don't know anybody myself.
I guess that's the answer.
All right.
Well, there is the answer, but that is not a good answer.
It's an answer.
It's a kind of a negative answer if you believe in the future of ufology.
So, maybe when it really does come around, if it really does come around, there'll be nobody to look up and report.
Because the geezers are gone Says the geezer from Peralta
Thanks for watching!
you Oh yeah.
This is Midnight in the Desert.
To call the show, if you're east of midnight, call 1-952-CALL-ART.
If you're west of midnight, call 1-952-225-5278.
Alright, staying current with what's going on in France, it appears the French Justice Minister is now saying the raid is coming to an end, with apparently three police killed, sorry to hear that, one civilian shot as well.
So, it looks as though they have closed in in France, and I'm sure the story will unwind through the night, but they've been hot after it, and it looks like it's paid off.
Whether we're going to learn anything as a result of all this, I don't know if anybody's left alive who can talk, but it doesn't sound like it at this hour.
Nevertheless, it's a fluid situation.
And whether it's really over or not, the French minister says, yes, we shall see.
Ongoing in France right now.
And once again, Kevin Randall.
Sorry, a lot of news breaking during your stay here, Kevin.
Not a problem.
And I would think that even if they've killed all the terrorists, There'd be documents and hard drives and things they can recover some information from.
Could be, hopefully.
Yes.
Okay, let's go to Akron, Ohio, on the phone.
You're on the air with Kevin.
Oh, hello, Kevin.
I read a book a long time ago.
I think her name was Twyla Nietzsche.
There were many council fires held before now.
Anyway, this is to suggest another possibility.
She was a Native American.
In her book, she said that just before this age, the age of Kali, it started about 10-12,000 years ago, that part of the people knew that the people on the surface of the Earth would be going kind of nuts for a while, and so they kind of went underground and took their technology with them.
So with this, it wouldn't necessarily be aliens or time travelers, but part of us.
That, you know, went underground to avoid going kind of nuts.
What do you think of that sort of idea?
There's days when I want to dig a hole.
Yeah, I'm with you on that one.
There's been a lot of discussion of this and it gets down into the inner earth theory as well.
I haven't seen any evidence, solid evidence, that would suggest that's true.
All that means is I haven't seen any evidence.
I think we're going to Australia, and Kevin, hello.
No, not Kevin.
Oh, I'm sorry.
This is Mario.
Mario, I'm sorry.
No, that's okay, Art.
Yeah, Kevin, I've got actually two questions for you.
With the difficulty of trying to release footage and photos, of potential sightings.
What do you think is potentially the best way to do that, to actually have a subjective and critical assessment of what actually was recorded?
Well, you've got to talk to the witnesses, and hopefully there's more than one, and if you can find independent witnesses who can verify the sighting, that will increase the credibility.
It depends on what the footage looks like, how long it lasts, and what is being done.
But when you're dealing with something like a photograph or video footage, it really comes down to the witness and who he or she is.
What is their history?
Are they practical jokers?
Are they serious people?
Are they well-educated?
Do they understand what's going on around them?
And are there independent witnesses that can help corroborate the story?
Maybe, but you know, Kevin, they say now that Check me if I'm wrong here, but all the police will tell you that independent witness testimony is one of the most unreliable things that you can depend on.
Whether it's a robbery and trying to describe the robbers or anything else, independent witness testimony is inevitably wrong or screwed up.
What do you think?
Then you've eliminated one way of assessing the sighting.
You've got the video footage, and the other thing is you have to be careful in the way you ask questions.
You say, did the car stop at the stop sign?
Or do you say, did the green car stop?
Well, you've just implied the car is green and you've kind of screwed up your investigation.
But if you've got video footage, you absolutely have to have Independent witnesses to it.
Somebody seeing the object in the sky from another location or it's going to be very difficult to verify the credibility of the sighting.
Let me refer you to even recent incidences where either the police have shot a suspect or gotten into a tussle and then ended up killing a suspect one way or the other.
There have been witnesses that have come forward and just have Totally wrong.
Absolutely wrong about the way it came down, even though they were looking at it.
Mario, are you with me on this?
Yeah, the memory is a funny old thing, and I think that people can potentially think they're remembering something else.
It can be almost like remembering a dream, I guess, in some circumstances.
I do have another question for you.
Go ahead.
You've just now eliminated witness testimony.
I know.
I don't mean to do so.
I'm just saying that witness testimony has been traditionally not very reliable.
We understand that.
When you're investigating a case and you're talking to the witnesses, you have to be very careful and you have to gather the testimony very carefully.
In the case from Mount Vernon, Iowa, where the woman was seeing a dome-shaped craft with aliens in it, And the guy said, no, I don't know what the hell she's talking about.
There were just these lights coming down in the sky.
I mean, yeah, two very diametrically opposed... I rest my case.
Testimonies.
But I understood where the woman was coming from.
Okay, Mario?
Yeah, no, I was just going to say, I think given the actual topic at hand, having multiple sightings by multiple people that can correlate, say, video footage, Could work effectively, but when it's isolated to images, perhaps not as much, because obviously images are easier to fake.
My second question to you is, over the many years of research that you've done, and things that I've come across, I've noticed that when you have three objects together, more often than not, they're very much in a triangle formation, which I find quite interesting.
And it makes me wonder if there's any correlation between that and the all-seeing eye that basically presented itself through history.
I'm just curious what your comments would be on that.
Well, the only thing I'll say is that if you've got three objects, they're pretty much either in a straight line or in a triangle, or an arc of some kind, which I guess could be a triangle.
So you have to be careful on that one, but I'm not sure there's a correlation between the all-seeing eye and UFO sightings.
I'm not sure there's a correlation there.
Which is not to say there isn't, it's just I don't... I'm not sure there is.
All right.
Onward, Anchorage, Alaska, on the phone.
You're on the air.
Hey Art, can you hear me okay?
I hear you.
Great.
First of all, I want to compliment you, Art.
I used to call you king of late-night talk radio.
I'm going to call you timeless, okay?
Thank you so much, especially UFOs.
This is the stuff Art Bell is just magnificent.
And every time I take it for granted, you'll get a caller like the guy who talked about the Amber Alert.
What brilliancy.
I mean, these are the moments, Art Bell, that you represent that are just magnificent.
That is brilliant, actually.
And I hope we see some apps coming out, because what a great way to proceed.
Truly, truly a great, and Art, I would hope you'd get your name in the midst of this union of money, or what do they call it, new funding groups.
So, here's my position.
In my tiredest of moments, I'm convinced that we're a penal colony or some type of feedstock, okay?
But looking on the brighter side of it, I have a question here, and I'll get to them briefly, but I think we're about to find out that, like the jungle floor teeming with life, we're way in the midst of so many things.
And the fascinating quest is going to be to find how they hold galactic order, because I think we're going to find there's so many life forms out there ahead of us.
Now, here's my question, and thanks for your show.
It's really fast-moving.
I don't know how NASA continues to escape accountability.
We own those people, and there's no reason why they couldn't have cameras for us and couldn't be accountable, especially with the telescopes and stuff up there.
I'm astounded these people could escape.
Well, let's talk about that a little bit.
Kevin, let's talk about NASA for a second.
I think there's been a number of attempts to get NASA to look at UFOs, and they just refuse to touch it.
And I think I understand why, and it just is because it can be such a Bottomless pit, and you've got all kinds of information coming in, and I think it would take up an awful lot of their time and away from their work.
Well, Kevin, there is this.
They have cameras on the International Space Station, right?
Oh, absolutely.
They've got cameras all over the place.
Yes, and many times they're trained on the Earth, Kevin.
And I don't know if you've followed this, but there have been times when Things are seen leaving our atmosphere and going to space, and then suddenly something that has been up for hours and hours and hours, i.e.
the NASA feed, suddenly just disappears like that.
I know that that happens, and I was also thinking of the tracking stations, the Air Force tracking stations with the Aerospace Command, or whatever it is, where they're looking at this stuff.
We never hear if they see anything extraordinary going out from or coming to the Earth.
So, there's all kinds of information-gathering entities out there that would be very valuable to us if we could access the information in real time.
Okay.
Let's go to Skype, and Anthony, hello.
Hey, how you doing, Art?
Okay, sir.
You're breaking up.
How about now?
Am I okay now?
Uh, not really good.
What are you using?
I'm using an iPhone.
All right, now it sounds better, but you don't have us on speakerphone.
Take us off speakerphone and everything will be well.
Speakerphone, now you're on my radio.
Okay, so you've got us off... Is that better?
Yes, it is.
Go ahead.
Okay, all I wanted to say was this.
I'm glad to have you back on the air.
My whole family lives in Sears.
Thank you.
And I'm from Ozone Park, New York.
No, you're from New York?
You kid!
Yeah, I am in New York.
I'm on my way home from work.
Okay.
And I always listen to you.
I think it's great.
Great program you have here.
Thank you.
And they do have an app on the iPhone for UFO spotting and, you know, seeing if they exist or they're in your area.
And what app is that?
It's called UFO.
If you put a UFO on the app, you'll find it.
I will do so, and I'll look for it.
So will I. Thank you very much.
So, in his car, on the phone.
How about that?
Well, there's one of those things we were talking about, the technological advances.
I mean, how many people had phones in their car 50 years ago?
They didn't.
At all.
Hello there.
In Vancouver, you're on the air with Kevin.
Vancouver, going once.
All right.
Yes.
There you are.
I am listening to you on KXL 101 out of Portland, Oregon.
That's the way to do it.
Thank you.
I have a question for Kevin there.
Sure.
I'd like to talk to him about the Maury Island incident in 1947.
It occurred about a week before the Kenneth Arnold sighting.
Allegedly occurred before the Kenneth Arnold sighting.
I know a lot of researchers seem to dismiss this.
There were a few shady characters involved in that investigation, but I do know that two Air Force officers died in that investigation.
Well, actually they died as a result of an aircraft accident, and it was only coincidental that they had been to Oregon to meet with Kenneth Arnold and E.J.
Smith, who was the airline captain.
Well, I do know this.
of UFOs on July 4th and they met with Christman and Dahl in Arnold's hotel room.
So I'm very familiar with the case and I am among those who dismisses it.
Well, I do know this.
I know that in Kelso, Washington, where that B-25 crashed, there's a museum there today,
a little city museum, and they have parts of that aircraft that crashed and they also
have pieces of the slag that dropped from one of those UFOs.
There were six donut-shaped craft that appeared over Harold Ball's boat, and one of them rained down this material that ended up damaging his boat.
It killed their dog.
It badly burned his son.
You're aware, of course, the Sun denies this.
No, I wasn't aware of that.
But I do know that to this day they still have pieces of that flag and there's still a ton of it on the bottom of Tuesday Town.
Well, George Early, who lives in Oregon, has done a great deal of work and investigation on this case.
And so I would think of him as the authority on it.
He did a number of articles for the old UFO magazine.
If you can dig those up, that would be a good place to take a look for information on that case.
I did something in, I think, the book Alien Mysteries and Cover-Ups that came out a couple of years ago about the Maury Island case based on a lot of what George Early had found and other information.
Interestingly enough, I think it was Christman Who had written a letter to Ray Palmer, who was the editor of Science Fiction Magazine and started the Shaver Mystery Stuff.
And Christman claimed that he had been in the caves where the DeRose lived when he served in the military during the Second World War.
That was kind of the problem.
That was what I think discredited the entire thing.
That helped discredit it, but I would bow to George Early's expertise on this case, because he spent a lot of time looking into it.
I certainly thank you for your opinion.
All right, thank you very much for your call.
We're very, very short on time.
Jeb, on Skype, real quick if you have something.
Yeah, I can do it real quick.
I'll drop out my second point.
You know, the one thing I wanted to say is that for a long time, I was a proponent of disclosure and that whatever's going on, you know, we deserve to know about it.
And the more I thought about it, you know, what if the situation is something like, you know, yeah, they're here and they're abducting us.
We can't do anything about it.
Yeah, they could take your children in the middle of the night and you might not ever see them again.
Sorry about that, we can't do anything.
If that was the situation, I don't know if a lot of people would really want to know that.
You might be better off as John Lear said, just kind of going through and doing your thing.
Live life, enjoy life.
Exactly, exactly.
Hope that doesn't happen to you and just have a nice life.
Live long and prosper.
That's right.
That's a good way to end it, actually, Kevin.
We have to because we are out of time.
So thank you for being here.
I've enjoyed it.
It has been very interesting to have you on tonight.
I'm sure we'll have you back.
Kevin, thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Good night.
All right, that's Kevin Randall.
Again, the breaking news from Paris is that two suspects are dead.
One blew herself up, one killed by a sniper.
We've got varying statements.
It's a very fluid situation, as it always is, with these kinds of things.
So we'll just watch and see what develops.
For the moment, from the high desert, I'm Art Bell.
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