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Nov. 4, 2015 - Art Bell
02:22:36
Art Bell MITD - Deborah Moffitt A True Haunting
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From the high desert in the great American southwest, I bid you all good evening, good
morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be in the world's 25 time zones, each and
everyone covered like a warm blanket by this program, Midnight in the Desert, I would be
Art Bell.
And it is my pleasure to be here tonight.
I've got a lot to talk to you about, and then I'm going to scare the hell out of you.
And probably myself.
This is a story I have never heard.
It's probably a story you've never heard.
So that's all coming up.
Rules of the program.
No bad language.
Well, you know, I mean, no really bad language.
People are calling me on that.
Every now and then I'll say, hell and damn, right?
Or something.
And, uh, so... I'm not banning those, but you know what I mean, right?
No really bad language.
Can't allow it.
One call per show.
Now I have to define it, right?
Like the Supreme Court says, you know it when you hear it.
Alright, uh, we, I have news on Abby.
Otherwise, known as K-I-C-8-4-6-2-8-5-2.
I think we're going to call her Abby, though.
Seems like a good name to me.
She discovered the star, right?
Alright, so here's the thing.
I have information inside information again.
I've had it now twice from NASA.
Once NASA itself, once JPL.
And now I have somebody inside the main scientific circles that are looking at all this right now.
And I'm not going to burn this person's name.
I understand that that makes you perhaps down a little bit, what you're about to hear.
But I beseech thou, please go to Artbell.com immediately.
Artbell.com because I'm going to ask you to look at a chart and I almost never ever do stuff like that.
But this is important.
Go to Artbell.com and right below tonight's guest info you will find a chart.
This is THE chart.
What this shows is the dimming of Abby.
It's no minor matter, and the information I'm about to give you does come from inside the main scientist looking at this, and that's all I can say.
You're just going to have to trust, and I do, that the information is accurate.
The first 16% dimming event was a weird one.
The light curve would suggest that the object is monolithic and triangular-shaped.
Ta-da!
This fact is what's driving all the scientific interest because that is exactly the kind of structure that you would build to announce your presence to the universe.
You don't see big opaque triangles in nature.
It doesn't happen.
If the spectra show the object to be opaque when it comes back around, then it can only be explained as an alien megastructure That was probably constructed to announce the presence of the civilization.
That would imply that they wish to make contact.
Whoo-hoo!
There is a slim chance it could well be conglomerated comet tails.
Very slim.
They, too, can appear triangular.
However, as you'll see in graph C, and that's what I've got up for you right now, graph C of slate link below, well, below my guest, Which is close up to the 800 event, what they call the 800 event.
That's the big dimming, right?
Notice how smooth the curve is.
As time goes on, it exponentially blocks more and more light until at the very end it abruptly drops off.
That indicates that a perfect isosceles triangle passed in front of the star.
This is hot stuff I'm giving you this morning.
The Hubble Space Telescope is now on standby to look at KI... Abby.
We'll call her Abby.
The moment a dimming event is detected, the first second they detect any dimming, Hubble is ready to go.
They'll use the STIS instrument to look at the spectrum of whatever the object is, and get this.
They may even get an image of it as they did with the exoplanet orbiting Fomalhaut.
The triangle feature is being referred to as, in quotes here, the Imperial Star Destroyer.
Informally for fun among scientists, because it is a huge, slow-moving triangle.
So now, Using that phrase, some of the scientists will know that I have an in.
But I'm not going to burn my sources.
The Imperial Star Destroyer.
Not bad.
This is big news.
You don't find triangles in nature, folks.
If that's what she be, Abby, then we're looking at a signal to us that they want to make contact.
Do we want to make contact?
If you want to see the big event charted, you've really got to see this.
I mean, you've got to look at this chart.
You can see the 800 event centered on that.
And then the additional random dimmings.
Imagine if they actually get a shot of the damn thing.
A big triangle.
Figures it'd be a triangle, right?
That's how I thought of it.
Figures it'll be a triangle.
That was my big sighting.
Anyway, That's from inside the science circle looking at all this now, and again, I'm not going to burn my contact, but I'm going to tell you it's good information.
As I did with NASA.
I was right then, I'm right now.
This is getting REALLY EXCITING!
It really is getting exciting!
When we can lead with these kind of headlines, and it's still not a done deal, of course, but My God, folks, when has this program ever been able to talk about the scientific possibility of life beyond our own planet?
I don't think it's sinking into a lot of people.
Some people it's making angry.
I got into sort of a heated email debate with somebody about this earlier and as you know on the air I interviewed some very religious people from back in the Bible Belt and They're not so happy about alien contact at all.
Of course, I threw down some pretty hard stuff to make them say that, but there is a definite prejudice against anybody else being out there.
There's one God, and for a lot of people, there's only one people that he created, and we're it.
All right, onward.
This is another biggie I want to talk to you about.
British and U.S.
officials said Wednesday they have information suggesting the Russian jetliner, Russian one, that crashed in the Egyptian desert may have been brought down by a bomb.
Now, I'm a CNN junkie, you know, I'll admit it.
I am.
I watch CNN all the time.
I think they were brainwashing the holy hell out of us today.
Really, I mean, all day long it wasn't Was it a bomb?
It wasn't the usual, oh, we don't want to make any guesses until we have absolute proof.
It was a bomb.
Likelihood is it was a bomb.
Now, they're of course just repeating what the US government and the British government are saying.
I will grant you that, but we're going to examine why the US and British governments would be saying that.
And boy, was CNN their mouthpiece today.
Let's think about why.
I mean, normally CNN is pretty good about plane crashes.
All the talking heads they have on.
The British guy I really love.
But, you know, they all kind of were swinging in there with CNN that this was a bomb that brought it down.
And, you know, it may well turn out to be it was a bomb.
But we don't know that yet.
And normally CNN would be ultra, ultra careful with its talking heads.
And they'd all say, but we have to wait and see.
But, oh, in this case, it was most likely a bomb.
Yeah, we saw, you know, a heat signature when it blew up.
But they're beyond that now.
They're talking about inside jobs and, you know, it being ISIS and ISIS, in fact, has taken credit.
Perhaps not in the normal, full way they do.
They may be protecting an inside source.
I'll give you that.
And also I will give you that it may have been a bomb, but at this point we don't know that.
We don't have one scintilla of proof that it was a bomb.
No chemical analysis, nothing.
And I'm telling you that normally CNN would be very circumspect about calling it something like this.
I think they're calling it what the American and British government wants it called.
We want it to be a bomb.
That sounds horrible, right?
But in a way we do, because it was a Russian aircraft, passenger aircraft, that, if it was a bomb, came down as a result of it.
So there's a big backstory here, with what CNN is doing, and I think they are cooperating with the American government here, and I almost count this as propaganda.
And again, please, I'm not saying it's not a bomb, it could well turn out to be.
But normally they would never, ever cover it with this kind of assurance, saying bomb.
So why are they doing it now?
Well, because the American and British governments, the American government mainly wants them to do it.
That's what I think.
I understand when I'm being propagandized.
When you've been out of the country and observed the world political process underway from outside the country, you have a very different perspective of the American media.
And I have that different perspective, and the way I see it is as follows.
We want it to be a bomb because it's a Russian airliner.
Now let's consider what's going on in Syria for a second, okay?
Incredibly dangerous!
Oh God, it's dangerous there!
So we've got Assad.
A guy that we ostensibly wanted out, right?
We wanted him out.
He was horrible.
Then, well, we sort of reconsidered a little bit, and we haven't said much lately, like, well, you know, maybe Assad's better than whatever might come next.
But still, we officially don't want Assad there.
The Russians are in Syria now, in a big way.
Tanks, troops, Bombing.
But they're not bombing ISIS.
They're helping us to death by bombing, but they're bombing the wrong people.
They're bombing the rebels who want to take down Assad.
In other words, Russia's in there militarily propping up Assad.
We've been complaining bitterly about it now for a long time, right?
What do we want Russia to do?
We want them to bomb who?
ISIS, of course.
So, if this can be a bomb put in a plane by ISIS, then it might make the Russians really, really angry enough to begin actually bombing the people we hoped they would bomb.
ISIS.
So, while we're normally extremely circumspect, I mean, how many, we've seen a lot of plane crashes lately, right?
And they're always very cautious.
So, what's up this time?
Is there a connection between what the US government and Britain say and then what CNN is hyping up?
Yup.
I think so.
Anyway, for your consideration, you can write to me and let me know whether you think I'm right along or upside down.
Then we've got the case of the USS Kitty Hawk.
What is that?
You know what the Kitty Hawk is, right?
It's a great big super carrier.
Kitty Hawk was in the Pacific, along with the ships that tend to her.
And, surprise, surprise, oh, Captain, look, oh, off the port bow, it's a Chinese sub surfacing.
That's right.
A Chinese sub surprised everybody by surfacing near the Kitty Hawk.
Now, My guess would be that somebody's head is going to roll because of this.
I can't know that for sure, but I'm guessing.
They were supposed to be protecting the carrier and you were not supposed to ever get surprised by something like a Chinese submarine?
So that's what's going on in the world.
Forget all that stuff, except the star.
That's very important.
And let me tell you about what is coming up next.
Deborah Moffat is just a regular person, an experiencer behind the acclaimed books A Deadly Haunting and Unwelcomed, which draw upon the frightening experiences she and her family endured at the hands of their unseen tormentor.
Vastly intelligent and destructive, this demon wrought havoc in their lives and home, resulting in a daily battle to maintain their own sanity.
After 25 years, Deborah decided to tell her story, detailing what went on in her family's home during the six-year nightmare in which this entity plagued them.
For these six years, Can you imagine living like that?
Can you imagine it?
For these six years, the Moffat family was terrorized by a demon from the past.
A demon that claimed that Lee Moffat was promised to him as a sacrifice.
Hundreds of years ago, the entity had come to collect.
There were no safe havens.
There was nowhere to run.
The Moffat family had only one option, as we would all have.
Survive.
And so, in a moment, the Moffat story, A True Haunting.
Did you see her eyes, and baby, I don't want to hear any sip and any suck. Will you partake
of that last offer cup?
the next video.
Or disappear into the potter's ground?
Take a walk on the wild side of midnight.
From the Kingdom of Nigh, this is Midnight in the Desert with Art Bell.
Please call the show at 1-952-225-5278.
That's 1-952-CALL-ART.
952-225-5278. That's 1-952-CALL-ART.
Alright then. I can take it.
Mike in Massachusetts said, Art, no one's perfect.
I just want to let you know before people start scolding you, it's Tabby's star, not Abby's star.
Yeah, I knew that, Mike.
It was just a test, and you're the only one that passed.
No, Mike.
I'm lying.
I did blow it.
And it is Tabby's star.
It happens.
I'm sorry.
Tabby's star.
It's Tabitha.
So, Tabby.
I don't know why I like the name Abby, but I do, and it gets stuck in my head.
So, no, Tabby.
Tabby Star.
God, that's an important story.
All right.
Now, to Debra Moffitt.
And you're just not going to believe what you're about to hear.
Debra, welcome to the program.
Thank you, Warren.
Thank you for having me on.
Do you prefer Debra or Debbie or Ms.
Moffitt?
Debbie's fine.
Debbie's fine.
Debbie, it is.
Okay, Debbie, I guess I've blabbed away most of the first half hour, so if you would please tell us just a little bit about yourself.
Actually, I have three children, still live in the same house where the last part of this story occurred.
Uh, retired and Mr. Entity has been gone 25 years now and we've never heard another thing from him.
Well, if you have three children, then that's what you do.
Right, that's true.
So, this all occurred that long ago, Debbie, is that right?
Yes, it did.
It actually started before I was even in the scene.
I married my husband in 1987, and this actually started from what we can, the researchers that came to study it, think it started back in 1980.
I'm sorry, I missed the year, 1980-something.
1984.
And it had to do with a Guatemalan housekeeper who practiced Santeria.
Ah, yes.
Okay, so who got her upset?
Well, back in 1984, my husband's mother, her mother, his grandmother, had a stroke.
And they hired a Guatemalan housekeeper to take care of her.
Right.
And she lived right next door to my mother-in-law and my husband.
And the Guatemalan housekeeper, very nice lady, I don't think from what I've been told, did any of this on purpose.
She was afraid that when she lost her job, when the grandmother died, she'd have to go back to Guatemala.
I see.
So I think she was trying to keep the grandmother alive as long as she could.
And what happened is she opened some type of a door and allowed something to come in.
Is this sort of all guesswork or do you have any firm reason to believe that's what happened?
It's partly guesswork, partly from what my mother-in-law found at the house.
After her mother died and Juanita left the house, they went to clean it and they found strange markings all through the house.
They found candle wax, broken rosary beads, and blood and feathers.
Oh.
From what they told the researchers that came to the new house, they believe that that's probably what happened.
Because they can think of no other way, you know, why this started.
Okay, but that's quite a bit.
You said feathers and blood?
What else?
Broken rosary beads, feathers, candle wax, and strange symbols all through the house.
Okay, so there was practice going on in the house, no question about that.
Right.
Well, I do agree.
I do certainly agree, Debbie, that when you dabble in such things, you do leave open the door for something you don't want as well as something you do want.
Yes.
Like I said, I don't believe she did this.
You know, anything to happen on purpose.
She was just trying to keep the grandmother alive to save her job.
Yeah, okay.
But it didn't matter.
Something evil did come through.
Yeah, so I get that, but I read in the opening that Lee Moffat was promised to him as a sacrifice hundreds of years ago.
Right.
Now, that's different than somebody practicing century and calling the wrong thing across.
Well, this is a story that, now the entity used to communicate with us by writing on a mirror with soap.
Really?
And it would write from morning, noon, and night.
And it told me the story, because one of the times I asked it, why are you doing this?
Why are you here?
And it told me why it wanted Lee.
He was in a, I don't mean in physical form, but he was in a monastery way back in the 1600s.
And some of the monks there practiced Satanism, and they promised him a blood sacrifice, and it never came to fruition.
And the lady, she wasn't sacrificed, but he believed because she was promised to him, Lee, in a past life, she still belonged to him.
And now he found her and he came to collect her.
Okay, I want to be straight about this.
Lee, or Lee to me, was promised in a past life, To this demon.
Right.
And so it wasn't Lee per se, it was, well I guess it was Lee.
How could they know to promise Lee would be there that far ahead of time?
I don't know.
They promised her in that lifetime, in the monks, with the monks, they were going to sacrifice her and something happened and she wasn't sacrificed.
So he still believed she belonged to him.
This is what the demon wrote to me.
So he still believed that she belonged to him and he came to collect her.
Wow.
So Lee came to collect her.
You mean... I thought Lee was your husband, no?
No, Lee is my mother-in-law.
Your mother-in-law, okay.
I'm sorry.
No, my husband's mother.
I'll get it all straight.
It's a complicated story.
Okay.
Alright, so that Lee, the mother-in-law, was promised to this demon in a previous life.
In other words, almost like a curse, I guess?
I guess so, yeah.
In other words, don't take me, but you can take somebody in a lifetime or two or three or whatever.
Somewhere down the line in my lineage.
Right, from what I understand.
Her.
He gave an impression that it was her.
That, you know, that this was a previous life of hers.
Okay.
That would make sense.
But one would imagine there was a deal cut.
In other words, don't take me, take somebody from my lineage somewhere down the line.
I don't know.
I'm just... So, I don't know is a good answer.
Yeah.
I don't know... You know what?
There are so many things about this to this day that I still don't know.
I'm glad you're saying, I don't know.
Listen, I really worry when somebody comes on the show with me, Debra, and gives me an answer to everything I ask.
When I hear somebody finally say, I don't know, I love it.
It gives credibility to the story.
You know, usually you ask, you push hard enough and somebody says, well, The demon told me one night when I had a deep sleep, you know, or something like that.
In other words, it tried to provide an answer to every single question you ask.
And as an interviewer, I've learned that's not a good sign.
So stand by, Debbie, and we'll get back to you.
This of course is midnight in the desert.
I'm telling you right now, I'm hearing voices.
Voices in my head.
Did any of you hear what I just heard?
Did you?
Anybody out there?
Feel free to sniff our back Actually, Mike in Virginia said, Are you planning on doing a prediction show this year?
1952 225 5278 that's 1952 call art you should always be smiling
actually Mike in Virginia said are you planning on doing a
prediction show this year?
course Mike It's the tradition has been the only thing I don't have of
course is last year's predictions to make bonks out of so It'll be a very positive show looking ahead only or maybe
two days of it. I don't know all.
And then, you may have heard my remark prior, uh, to the break, that I was hearing voices in my head.
Um...
David, yes, I was hearing voices.
And I called Keith, who operates, you know, the board down there in Arizona.
And I said, Keith, I'm hearing voices.
Now, either they heard it on the air and will tell me, or you did it there.
And he said, oh, not me, not me.
And then a moment passes.
He said, oh, God, I left the mic on.
And let me tell you, there's nothing more demonic Then the Roland voice in your ear.
Demonic indeed.
And since I'm on the subject of the wormhole and messages you can send, if you are a time traveler, you get to pick, by the way, we've got between 75 and somewhere like 80 shows now in the hopper.
You can go back and you can listen to old shows.
You can hear last night's show in the afternoon when you want to hear it and you have access to the wormhole and you can send me messages about how I screw up and so much more.
All right, that said, yes, Roland's voice is demonic indeed.
Debbie, welcome back.
Thank you.
All right, so I would assume then, that long ago, your children were about what age when this began?
When this began, my one son had just been born in 1987, and then the other two were born in 1990.
They're twins.
So until this came out in 2014, they knew nothing about it.
We had never spoke about it in the house.
So I had to tell them about it before I even wrote a book about it.
Okay.
And here we go.
We're now going to begin to get about it, what really happened.
This is so well documented, all of this.
I know that, for example, somebody I trust implicitly was there with you, Dr. Evelyn Paglini, who helped you out, I guess, substantially.
You can confirm that, right?
Dr. Evelyn Paglini was awesome.
She was a wonderful lady.
Okay.
When she came to the house, I mean, she came in with such courage and such confidence.
That was Evelyn.
I looked at her and I thought, we're saved.
This lady's going to save us.
If anybody could, she'd be the one.
Were the Warrens also involved somehow?
Yes, Ed and Lorraine Warren came.
Really?
Yes.
But I guess Evelyn Paglini helped out a bit more?
She couldn't get rid of it.
Couldn't get rid of it?
No.
And the entity hated Dr. Paglini.
I can imagine.
He absolutely hated Dr. Paglini.
He, every minute, was writing nasty things about her, vulgar things about her on the mirror.
But she said, she told us, she said, I can't get rid of this.
She said it's too powerful.
It's ancient, it's old, and I can't get rid of it.
Let me tell you, for Dr. Paglini, that's one hell of a statement.
I know it, because I thought she'd be the one.
But, she said, she was actually worried for my mother-in-law's life.
She said, I can suggest something to do, whether you do it or not, it's up to you.
She said, this deity, she called it an ancient deity, she never really called it a demon, she called it more of a deity.
She said, if you take one room upstairs and empty it, and give it the room and pay homage to this, This won't hurt you, and it will actually make your life better.
She said, because I can't get rid of it, and I don't know if your mother-in-law can be saved.
So, that's what she suggested.
Wow!
Okay, let us now go back to the very first thing, and you're still in the same house, right?
Well, see, it started at a different house.
Oh, it began, alright.
So, at this different house, located where?
Where it very first started, it's in Rancho Cucamonga on Archibald and Arrow Highway.
I always thought there was something wrong with Rancho Cucamonga.
I could never pin it down.
There were like three houses right on the corner, right there, and my mother-in-law and father-in-law owned the one in the middle.
Her mother owned the one next to it, and my husband owned the one on the other side.
Three houses were all connected.
Let's deal with the house you were in.
Was it limited to that house, by the way?
No.
All three houses were affected.
Oh my goodness.
All right.
Start with the first thing that ever happened.
No, I can start with the first thing that happened that I can confirm because I actually saw it.
Fair enough.
It happened earlier.
I never saw it, so it's only hearsay.
Fair enough.
What I actually witnessed, the first thing was a port.
We had a tenant that moved into, my husband rented his house out.
We lived with his mother and father.
He had a heart condition and he just felt closer, felt safer living together.
So we all lived together.
We rented out his house to a gentleman.
He had a large sports collection, my husband.
So he left one room in the house locked.
And the gentleman had free run of the house, but he couldn't touch this room.
Got it.
We would go down periodically to check on the room.
The very first thing that happened is we walked into his, we unlocked the door where his sports memorabilia were, and something had taken all the bobbleheads, baseball bobbleheads, off the wall and put them into the shape of a triangle on the floor.
Oh my.
Alright.
And of course... And this is locked all the time.
Is that right?
This was locked.
We were the only ones with the key.
But you automatically think you don't think something's happening.
We automatically thought the tenant did it.
Well, that's just bad.
I mean, then you think you have somebody you can't trust.
Right.
But at least you can see that person and you can deal with them.
True.
We confronted him.
He said, I've never been in that room.
I never touch it.
I have a room like that in my house.
There's nothing but very expensive, very complicated radios inside, and so nobody goes in there.
Right.
That's why Bill felt about his sports collection.
I fully understand.
And so here are bobbleheads on the floor in a triangle.
Right.
We locked it back up, like I said, talked to the tenant.
Well, he assured us he didn't touch it.
Well, what could we say?
We thought he did, but we said, well, don't do it again.
Within a week's time, my mother-in-law was very religious.
Next to her bed, she had a stand with all types of religious statues on it.
One morning she wakes up and on the statue of Jesus is a pair of men's briefs.
Bad.
Out of nowhere.
Of course, she thought one of us was playing a joke.
You know, what are you doing?
None of us could figure out how it got there.
At that time, none of us even understood what a report was.
Well, look, even I don't know what it is.
What is it?
It's something that moves, something like an object that moves without anyone physically moving it.
Right.
Okay, well, here's what I think.
There's almost nobody, regardless of their religion, who would Would do something like that.
I mean it's just so highly disrespectful.
I can't imagine, of course I don't know your family, but I can't imagine anybody would hang some underwear on a cross.
No way.
No.
It was.
She was very upset.
And it progressed from there.
Pretty soon we started getting all kinds of different clothing on her.
Her statues.
Then we couldn't figure out where they were coming from.
Then we started getting mail and receipts.
And they were all coming from the tenant.
They were coming from the house next door.
Receipts?
You mean he was buying stuff?
Sure, like receipts where he bought some clothes and he had a receipt for them.
And they'd end up on her chest by her religious tattoos.
Oh, I see, I see, I see.
So it started all around religious artifacts.
Right.
We went down to a house.
It's very hard to explain to the man, listen, we have your things but our house.
You know, you can't do that.
You'd think we took the things from his house.
Was that his underwear?
Yes.
I don't know for sure.
You know, at the beginning of that, as a woman, and I'm not, I'd have reason to worry if another man's underwear shows up on a cross over my bed or near it.
Well, sure.
I mean, at this point, they're probably... I don't know what you're thinking.
You're thinking somebody broke in?
Right.
That was another theory my mother-in-law thought.
Maybe somebody came in when we weren't here.
Right.
Because, you know, you don't go to the supernatural.
You go to reality.
Of course.
You try to justify things.
Of course.
But we couldn't.
There was just nothing that we could... We just didn't know what was going on.
Went back down to the house like a couple weeks later.
And he wasn't home.
And we noticed over all the light fixtures, where you click the lights on and off.
Yes.
Someone had made strange symbols.
And it looked like they were drawn in crayon.
Well, now you did have children in the house, of course.
No.
My children, my one son was only like a month old.
Oh, okay.
That was it.
I don't imagine him slithering out of his... No.
And this gentleman was all alone.
So, then within a few weeks, the gentleman said, I'm leaving.
Don't blame him.
He gave us a reason why, he just said, I'm going.
He told us that on Friday, and by Sunday he was gone.
Okay, so, I would guess that he was experiencing things over there, or tired of getting accused of doing things over there.
Right, that's what I think too.
He wouldn't talk about anything, he just left.
So, he was gone.
We went, when he left, up to the house to look at it to see what needed to be cleaned to re-rent it.
My husband goes in his room.
I stood in the living room looking around seeing what needed to be cleaned.
There was a long shelf on the top of the wall.
It ran the whole length of the living room with all kinds of knick-knacks.
I looked at it and then I looked back and I looked again at it within like a blink of an eye.
Every single thing on that shelf was turned backwards within a blink of an eye.
My husband came out.
I said, you're not going to believe this.
And he didn't.
He said, no, you didn't see it right to begin with.
They were all turned backwards.
Maybe this man had problems.
He did these weird things.
So just let it go.
So I knew, though, that I what I saw.
Right.
That's right.
I understand.
You know what you see, and what you see is what you saw.
Right.
Simple as that.
He made plans to come back the next day to start cleaning.
He kept the place pretty good, but it needed to be cleaned.
We came in, we walked in the door.
In the middle of the living room was a lamp from the bedroom, sitting in the middle of the floor.
Aye, aye, aye.
And I just looked, and my husband said, oh, somebody must have came in the house.
He wouldn't want to believe.
He was so afraid of the paranormal, he wouldn't want to believe something paranormal was happening.
So he would try to make excuses what was happening.
Most normal people would.
Yeah.
So, we put that lamp back, we went into the kitchen.
Went in the kitchen probably for two minutes.
Came back into the living room, and the furniture from the dining room was stacked up in the living room.
Good Lord.
Within two minutes, and we didn't hear a thing.
Okay, at this point, I wonder what you were thinking and I wonder what your husband was thinking.
Two completely opposite things.
I looked at it as something, at the time, I wasn't familiar with anything paranormal.
I'd never been frightened in my life by it.
I looked at this as something absolutely fascinating.
Look what was happening.
You know, it was like my mind was going in circles trying to figure out what was going on.
My husband's first instinct was, let's get out of here.
Let's go.
Let's hurry.
Let's get out.
But I wanted to try to understand what was going on.
You and I, Debbie, have different ideas of what's interesting.
And by that I mean, for example, this star out there that could be aliens.
That's interesting.
A room full of furniture moving itself.
I run like hell.
My husband also.
Feel free to keep...
To me it was like I just couldn't understand it and it was fascinating to me.
I put the furniture back, he left.
He stood outside the door.
He didn't want to be in the house.
Don't blame him a bit.
But you know the feeling in the house, there was nothing nasty feeling in the house.
You know what I mean?
The house didn't feel like an evil presence or something threatening.
It was like this, and it became almost like a game.
When I'd go up there to clean, I would go into a room and I'd say, if there's something here, move something.
I was cleaning, and I'd come back and something would be moved.
So it almost became like this game where, you know, it gets you, like it grabs you, look what I can do.
A game is Candy Crush.
What you're describing is no game, but I guess you were playing.
Really, because to me it wasn't frightening.
It was amazing.
At that time.
Okay.
I've got to give you props for a steel spine that I don't have.
I would have been so out of there like your husband.
Boy!
So this went on how long?
Now this went on probably for another week and then everything just stopped.
Oh.
It just stopped.
It was like nothing happened.
We went back to the house.
Nothing was moving.
Everything just went right back to normal.
Okay.
So the next month we decided oh everything's back to normal now.
Maybe this gentleman you know left something you know he dabbled or did something left something wrong and everything's gone now so we're okay.
So we decided to re-rent it out.
Now, during this time, the neighbor on the other side that we rented out, the grandmother's house, talked to my husband and said, did someone die in this house?
Which no one had.
And my husband told him no.
But he evidently had been playing with a Ouija board.
And he said he contacted something on a Ouija board.
Oh, brother.
And he wanted to know if anyone died in the house.
My husband said no, didn't want anything more to do with it because he didn't want to even talk about it.
So this, this, excuse me, this neighbor wanted to know if anybody had died because he had been playing with a Ouija board.
And had contacted someone.
Uh, okay.
Um, and I presume stuff began to happen to him.
We don't know, he never said a word.
But one strange thing that happened, his son, he was like 20, 21 years old, moved in with him.
We saw his son, this was a strange thing, we saw his son, my mother-in-law, walk by the house, she was walking her dog, and his son was in the backyard, and he was digging holes and planting trees, but he wasn't planting trees like planting trees, he was planting them upside down.
Yeah.
So she was going to talk to him.
She said when she looked at him he just stared at her and just stared and she got frightened and she just she left him alone.
She said she didn't care if he was planting trees upside down.
She just left.
I get that.
So things were happening on both sides and then everything stopped.
It was like it just stopped.
So we thought well okay everything's okay now.
So did somebody go out there and plant the trees correctly or did they stand forever looking silly?
No, they died, and they were all taken, just thrown away.
That figures.
Eventually.
Within a month or so after that, the tenant died.
Okay.
His name was.
He died.
Okay.
And his son moved out, so that house was empty.
Did he die a natural death, might I ask?
He died of congestive heart failure, which is funny because it seems like everybody connected with this died of congestive heart failure.
How are you feeling?
I feel fine.
My husband died of congestive heart failure.
His mother died of congestive heart failure.
His father died of congestive heart failure.
His uncle that lived in the house next door died of congestive heart failure.
Wow.
So it seems to be something that runs through that.
Apparently.
Yeah, so we rented out the house again where the tenant was with the bottle heads.
We rented that out again because everything was quiet.
And like I said, there was nothing threatening that happened.
So we didn't feel, I didn't feel frightened in any way.
My mother-in-law and my husband on the other hand, they were still frightened of this.
Did you disclose to this new person?
Yes.
You did?
My husband said, you know, this house may be haunted and they laughed.
You know, back then it was like 1987.
It wasn't like today when people are more open-minded and they understand more about what's really happening out there.
Back then it was more of a joke.
This is a haunted house.
So they moved in.
It was a younger woman and an older gentleman.
They weren't married, but they lived together.
Uh, the lady was very kind.
We lived next door.
I would talk periodically with her when I went out in the yard.
You know, she was a nice lady.
Then I noticed that I didn't see her very much.
Oh.
And then I see her in the front yard and she looks like someone had beaten her up.
And I confronted her.
I said, are you okay?
What happened?
And she told me that since they moved in the house... Hold it right there.
That's great.
Hold it right there.
We've got a break.
It's a long one, I told you about.
What do you think she said?
I'm Art Bell.
Midnight in the Desert doesn't screen calls.
We trust you.
But remember, the NSA... Well, you know.
To call the show, please dial 1-952-225-5278.
That's 1-952-CALL-ART.
Buying away my favorite Ross thing.
Hi everybody, I'm Art Bell.
This is Midnight in the Desert.
I am interviewing Deborah Moffat.
And I want to give you a warning that what's coming up is going to be really frightening stuff if you, well, if you have a weak heart, take care.
Perhaps it's not for the kids.
So the first part has been sort of I don't know.
Light, kind of scary for me in a way, but not the heavy-duty stuff that's coming.
Here once again is Deborah Moffitt.
Deborah, welcome back.
So, the neighbor was there looking as though she'd been pummeled.
Right.
And you asked her.
And she said, she told me ever since they moved into the house that her boyfriend had become hostile.
She said she didn't know what had happened to him.
I told her, you know, she had to get away from him.
She said, don't worry, I can take care of myself.
And that was the last time I ever saw her.
Within a week, everything was quiet, but I didn't see Michelle.
Another week went by, no Michelle.
I saw him out in the front yard.
I said, how is Michelle?
I haven't seen her in a while.
He said, Michelle left.
And that was, I thought Michelle left.
That was the last I heard about it.
Within the month, he moved out.
He just said he had to leave.
No problem.
He just was leaving.
We went up there to clean the house and it was spotless.
I mean, it was bleached.
It was cleaned.
There wasn't a bit of dust anywhere.
The only thing missing was a rug.
It was like a throw rug, big throw rug.
Suspicious.
Did anybody check out under the upside down trees?
Dead trees?
No.
So, we decided we just locked it up.
We didn't know.
By this time, my husband, my father-in-law, myself, and my mother-in-law had decided we were going to sell the properties and move to a new house, a bigger house, and live together.
So, we were thinking, well, we just won't rent anything out anymore.
When Monty died, we didn't rent the other house out.
When this tenant left, we weren't going to rent this one out again.
After he left, about a week or so, maybe two weeks later, someone was knocking at that door.
I was in the front yard.
I yelled over, he doesn't live there anymore.
He asked me, well, do you know where he is?
I said, no.
He said, did you hear what happened to Michelle?
And I said, no, I haven't heard anything about Michelle.
He said they found Michelle beaten to death, wrapped in a rug in a landfill.
Oh my God.
Now, I was in shock because I didn't know if this was, first of all, I didn't know if it was true.
I hadn't heard anything about it on the news or in the newspapers.
I was just, it was just what this gentleman was telling me.
And also I remember her saying how the gentleman, her boyfriend changed when he moved into the house.
So I remember going home and telling everybody in the house what had happened.
And I wanted to, I said, do you think we should call the police and explain, you know, what happened?
And no, they said, we don't even know if this really happened.
How do we know this man was even telling us the truth?
So I don't know if that had actually happened to Michelle or it didn't.
It's just what the gentleman told me.
But to me, that was rather scary, because at that point, it changed from something that was non-threatening to something that maybe was very evil.
Maybe.
But you know, it would have been possible, Debbie, to go to either the police or a local newspaper and find out if that... I mean, after all, if somebody's found in a landfill on a rug, dead, that's going to be a story.
That's what I thought, the same thing.
Now my husband was the type, he read every newspaper, watched all the news.
He said he hadn't heard a thing about it.
So I don't know if that was true or if that wasn't true.
Pretty weird comment to make either way.
Right.
It just put a lot of, you know, made me frightened at that point of what this thing could do if it was real.
Right, okay.
You could even at this stage, even today, you could go back and find out if such thing had happened, I'm sure.
Yeah, you know what?
That would be interesting to do, to find out, because Michelle was a nice lady.
It's not a light comment you just drop on somebody.
I mean, he must have had some knowledge.
Yeah, I mean, where would it come out of the blue?
I mean, there had to be some fact.
Stories always have based on some fact.
Or made up.
Why would somebody make up a comment like that?
Good God.
Yes.
She's found dead wrapped in a rug.
Okay.
All right.
Continue.
So we left both houses empty.
We found a new place to live.
It was like 10 miles up the hill from where we lived.
All right.
And so we were moving very slowly.
They put the property on the market, and we were moving our possessions very slowly up into the new house.
The very last day we were there at the house, my mother-in-law and I were alone.
And for us, this is when it really became hostile towards us.
Everyone was gone.
My mother-in-law and I were in the back bedroom.
We were getting the last of her things, and there was one box.
And all of a sudden, from the kitchen, we hear almost like an explosion.
We run to the kitchen, and the entity or whatever, what happened, all the cupboards had been just ripped off the walls.
Off the walls?
Off the walls.
There were pieces of them lying all over the floor in the kitchen.
Oh, Jerry.
Yeah, then we hear glass breaking.
We go back into the bedroom to see what happened, and it blew out all the windows in the back bedroom.
My God.
And I remember grabbing my mother-in-law by the arm and we just ran out of the house and got in the car.
And did what?
I mean, in the car?
Sure.
For a while?
Shock?
Shaking?
Probably?
My mother-in-law was shaking.
She was so frightened.
That I get.
We went back home when we were up at the new house and thank God for a small time everything was quiet.
Nothing happened.
It was like, you know, we found our safe haven.
We were okay.
At least that's what we thought.
But it didn't turn out that way.
We were here for like three weeks.
And then a thing that anybody else would experience, they would just ignore it, happened.
A picture was turned backwards.
And it was like a bell went off in my head.
It was like, here we go again.
It's with us.
So, it came with us from death.
We thought we got rid of it by moving, but it didn't.
It came with us.
Yeah, okay.
So, here we go again.
So, it wasn't the house.
It was you, or it was your mother-in-law.
It was my mother-in-law.
Now, by this time, my husband and I were trying to talk to my mother-in-law.
She was the one that was against Telling anybody what was going on, or trying to find somebody to help us.
Because she said, people will think we're crazy, or she had it in her head, if things like this happen to us, we must be evil and we're getting punished for something.
We couldn't make her understand, you know, this is something's happening, we need help.
So, from this point on, we became very isolated.
We started to look for help, but we became isolated.
We weren't allowed to talk to anybody about what was going on.
What do you mean?
What do you mean you weren't allowed?
My mother-in-law would go into hysterics.
She wouldn't want anybody to know what was happening to us.
I see, okay.
So we just kind of kept it to ourselves.
Then the entity started to isolate us even more.
He would go where we went.
And he would make it so uncomfortable where we went, we would stop going places.
We couldn't invite someone to the house, so we would go to visit them at their house.
But the entity would do something, like we went to this gentleman's house.
It was a friend of my husband and my mother-in-law's.
And when we came home, on our kitchen table, was the gentleman's wallet.
Now, we were just at his house.
How can we explain to this gentleman why we have his wallet?
Very carefully.
So, it did things like that to make us so uncomfortable that we kind of isolated ourselves from everyone.
And by this time we finally got my mother-in-law to try to help allow us to go and try to find help to tell people what was going on.
What kind of help?
First of all we went to a psychologist right here in Rancho Cucamonga because I remember my mother-in-law was contacting the church at the time to try to get a priest to come to the house and we decided to go to a psychologist to see if any one of us was causing this.
So we went to a psychologist.
Gee, they wouldn't be the ones to really be able to pin this sort of thing down, would they?
No, not really, but my mother-in-law said we need to go find out if one of us is causing this.
So we went to the psychologist, explained the whole situation.
He was dubious at first.
The more we explained to him, the more he started to believe.
Finally, he said, I can't help you.
He said, you need to go to a parapsychologist, or you need to get in touch with a church, or some kind of institution that studies this kind of thing.
I can't do anything to help you.
So, that was the first avenue.
Probably gave you a referral slip and a $200 bill.
It was a big bill.
My mother-in-law contacted the local church.
She had been very religious.
Had stopped going to church, actually, when her mother died.
Her mother and her used to go to church together, so when her mother died, she stopped going to church.
But she was still a very religious woman.
Right.
She contacted the church.
The priest agreed to come to the house.
He came to the house.
It was an older gentleman.
He walked in the house.
He walked into the foyer, and he wouldn't move from there.
He was supposed to go through the whole house and bless the house.
Uh, he said, no, no, I don't have to.
I can make, I can do it here.
He took out his holy water and he made the sign of the cross in the hall, in the hallway.
And he said, okay, it's blessed.
And my mother-in-law said, aren't you supposed to go to every room and do this?
He said, no, no, this is good enough.
I have to leave.
So then my mother-in-law decided she would try to explain to him what was going on and he didn't want to hear it.
He looked at me and said, ladies, when they get this age, they get a little crazy.
I got to get out of here.
And he just ran out of the house and jumped into his car.
So the way you're telling the story, it sounds like he felt whatever it was, either was lazy or felt whatever it was and said, I'm out of here.
That's what I think it was, because he looked frightened.
It wasn't like, you know, he was too old to do it.
It was just like he just wanted to leave.
He wasn't comfortable.
Okay.
This is sounding more serious all the time.
Okay, so he tossed the holy water, said the words, split.
Now, at this point, I'm sure you're hoping that did the trick anyway.
I was very doubtful that just that was going to affect this.
But my mother-in-law was crushed because she thought the church would help her.
So this really was a blow to her.
From about this time, the entity started to focus all its negativity towards my mother-in-law.
Right.
Now, it made my mother-in-law's life hell.
It destroyed her clothing.
It would take one shoe, so she'd have a pair of shoes, but they'd be from different pairs of shoes.
It would take her money, her wallet, it would destroy her credit cards, her license.
She couldn't own anything, she couldn't have anything on her.
Her purse, it would hide.
Her glasses, she had a very bad eyesight.
It would take her glasses, so she was constantly having to buy new glasses.
Alright, I don't mean to be insensitive, but I've got to ask this.
You remember what the priest said, right?
You know, sometimes older ladies, particularly if they're scared or just because they're older, I mean, we all begin to change, right?
So, are you confident that the mother-in-law was of sane mind and... Yes.
Other than being scared, I get that and I wouldn't be.
My mother-in-law was an all-world Italian lady, as smart as they come.
Okay.
She was just frightened, but she was sane.
Okay.
And I mean, I would see she'd go to her purse to try to get something and she'd pull out money, it'd be all cut to pieces.
Or she'd pull out her credit card and it'd be sliced in pieces.
So it was just, it just tormented her.
In the new house, it was quite large.
She had a bedroom upstairs with my father-in-law, and it had its own bathroom and a sitting room upstairs.
We had the master bedroom downstairs, which was a little bit further away from them.
Okay.
Another thing I liked to do was knives.
It would bring knives.
Now, these knives weren't our knives.
I don't know where the knives came from.
He just deported them.
He would stick them through the bottom of chairs.
It would be the chair that she would sit in.
So that if she sat, she'd sit on a knife.
There's a message in that.
A fairly clear message.
I get messages.
If that started to happen to me, gee, I don't know, I'd question my wife and my daughter.
But if I realized that this was happening, you know, from something like this, I don't know what I'd... Well, actually, I don't know what you can do.
You apparently can't move, because it follows you.
Right.
You can't stop it, because it's not human.
Right, you can't even see it to defend yourself.
What do you do?
And it progressively got worse.
I mean, she'd go to bed at night and it would put knives in the pillow.
So it got to the point where I'd have to be with her and we'd go wherever she was going to sit down.
We used to have to look before she'd sit so she could sit down safely.
The next thing that happened to me was the most amazing thing.
All these other things were just torment.
But the next thing to me was amazing.
It started to write on the mirror with soap.
Okay.
It was upstairs in her bedroom.
In the bathroom of her bedroom.
What is the first thing you saw?
The first thing it said was, I think it was, talk to me.
Really?
Yes.
And then I remember my father-in-law... Okay, when it first happened, she was upstairs alone.
So, you know, when she called me up, she said, you have to see this.
I left the room, I came back in, and this was on the mirror.
Everyone else was downstairs, so it just was her upstairs.
So when we all came upstairs to look at it, to see what was going on, immediately the first thing you think of is one of us wrote it.
Sure.
Because I never even heard of ghosts or demons writing on things and actually communicating with you.
I never heard of that.
Well, it was in her room, so you would think she wrote it, right?
Right.
So what we did first, we examined it and I found out that it was soap.
And so we cleaned it.
We cleaned the mirror.
And we walked outside the bathroom.
We were the only people in the house.
There's only one door to the bathroom.
The four of us stood outside the door, and I remember we talked.
We said, if we go back in and there's writing, then we know none of us are doing this.
We opened the door.
We went back in, and there was writing on the mirror.
Oh, my God.
So we knew then no one else could be in the little bathroom.
No one else could get in the bathroom.
We were in front of the door, and the four of us were right together.
Perfect.
Alright, so this time, what did it say?
It started saying, it didn't want us to go in the attic.
Don't go in the attic?
Right, it didn't want us to go into the attic.
It started to pretend, now when it wrote, it would write all the time.
It wrote, it pretended to be my mother-in-law's dead sister.
My mother-in-law had a nickname when she was a child that only her one sister called her.
It was NeNe.
Right.
And the entity wrote on the mirror, NeNe, don't go near the attic.
Sound advice in my opinion.
So it didn't want us in the attic.
It would say things like, there's a bad wire, there's going to be a fire, stay away from it.
It wasn't saying to us, if it was her sister, you know, have someone check out your attic, there's a bad wire in it, I don't want you guys to get hurt.
It was saying a stay out of the attic.
So it didn't want us in the attic.
Well, I'm impressed that there were four of you who, after immediately cleaning this mirror, went back in and then saw it.
Okay, so that eliminates any other possibility.
It did.
At that point we knew it wasn't one of us and no one else could get in there.
All right, so usually, you know, when there's a button and it says, don't press this button, everybody does, they press the button.
So it didn't want you to go in the attic and, oh my God, there's a mouse crawling across my table.
I'm serious.
Excuse me for a moment.
Okay.
I'm going to see if I can... I'm going to see if I can... My God, what is a mouse doing here?
I wonder if it's your influence.
I'm going to see if I can get a picture of this.
Hold on.
What in the world is a mouse doing in my studio?
You know, it's funny because we were infested by rats for two weeks.
Yeah?
Hold tight.
Oh, now he's gone.
Darn it!
Alright, where'd you go?
I was just set to take a pee.
He was just sitting right there.
I'm sorry, Debbie.
I'm really sorry.
You're in the middle of the story and I'm talking about a mouse.
Where did he go?
Okay, let's continue with the story, Debbie.
I'll keep an eye out for the little guy.
Okay.
I hope it has nothing to do with your story.
I hope so.
Please continue.
So my father-in-law, we stood there, my father-in-law at one time asked it what its name was.
Yes.
And it wrote Prince.
It wanted to be called Prince.
Prince?
Prince.
Okay.
At this point apparently he was, you know, I don't know, getting used to this to the point he could do something like that, ask a question.
Uh, at this point, yeah.
Other than that, the time when it answered that, for the first, like, year, it didn't communicate with us more so.
It spoke at us.
You know, it wouldn't respond to what we were asking it.
It would, it would tell us things, things it wanted us to do, things we weren't supposed to do.
It became, it almost became our, our, we were almost like held captive.
Was it like, Bad things it was telling you?
I mean, give me an idea.
Bad things, but it would, you know, it wanted, it would say, don't go in the attic, don't do this, don't bring anybody to the house.
If my mother-in-law and father-in-law had to go somewhere, if we didn't, if they didn't ask the entity, you know, say they were going to go, it would destroy the car so they couldn't go.
It had such power, it stopped us from doing some of the things we wanted to do.
It would break windshields, break headlights, It was the most... You can't believe the feeling of almost being held captive in your own house.
Yeah, this is very serious damage, for one thing.
It destroyed the house.
The entity had a symbol.
It was a triangle, and it had a tail coming out the bottom.
And it carved this symbol in the walls.
It burned them in the walls.
It cut pieces, like four or five pieces of rug out in the symbol.
It literally destroyed our house.
Every day was putting our house back together.
That's incredible.
You know, I mean, how do you go on living with something like that?
Now, I guess at this point you knew it was with you, not just the house, so it wouldn't make any difference.
It was with us.
I mean, no matter where we went, like I said, we'd go out to dinner, we'd come home, on the kitchen table would be the name tag from the lady that waited on us.
One time we went out to dinner and my mother-in-law looked down at her plate and her meat, it had a big, like someone had taken a big bite out of her meat.
So where we went, it went.
Well, that sure takes the fun out of a night out.
Okay, so there had no way to get rid of this thing.
I mean, I would have tried another priest.
We tried everything.
We called Lloyd Auerbach.
He was in charge.
He had a paranormal organization.
I know him, yes.
Yeah, he sent Chris Chacon out.
And I remember Chris Chacon came out and he had, at that time, I've never seen one before, one of those meters, EMF meters or whatever it is.
And he went through the house and he checked it with that and everything.
And when he was done, He couldn't do anything, he said.
I said, well what is it?
What's going on?
And he said to me, very nice gentleman, he said, there's some things in this world you're never going to understand.
And that was all they could do for us.
Everyone that came, and we called, we went, there was no one we didn't try.
We tried musicians, we tried people that practiced Wiccan.
We tried, we went to Thelma Moss, she sent out Kerry Gaynor.
Because she wasn't doing it at the time.
He came to try to help us.
No one could get rid of it.
They would say, we'll pray for you.
We've had religious people come out.
We'll pray for you.
But no one could help us.
Well, OK.
I'm lost.
I mean, at this point, what does anybody do?
Uh, you mentioned he had a meter.
Did anything register on the meter?
He didn't tell me anything.
All he would tell me was...
There's some things in this world you're never going to understand.
Well, I know Lloyd, so I'll talk to him about it.
Yeah.
Lloyd Auerbach, very nice man.
Very nice.
Yeah, very nice man.
We had, like I said, people from all over.
We even wrote to people in different countries.
In Brazil, there was a gentleman that worked with us.
We contacted him.
He told us to contact the Warrens.
But before we contacted the Warrens, we had other people come out.
This is the time I saw it show itself, or at least use something to show itself.
Two shamans came out to the house.
Very nice people, they came out.
By this time, the entity had destroyed my mother-in-law's room upstairs to the extent, and it was felt so dangerous now, we all moved in together into the master suite downstairs.
Huddling together.
Yeah, so now downstairs we have, thank goodness it's a really large room, has a sitting room, so we had beds in there, we had beds in the other part, so we all stayed together.
At night, we didn't go apart.
My mother-in-law very rarely even walked through the house by herself.
Don't blame you a bit.
I think any group of people would be so terrorized.
Yes, you can do nothing.
There is nothing, literally, you can do.
So, you try to survive.
Right.
That's what you do.
You try to survive the best you can.
It got to the point where she'd be sitting in a chair.
She'd turn next to her, and next to her would be a knife sticking right next to her in the wall.
And these weren't our knives.
We ended up with a box of knives.
A big box of knives that weren't our knives that we just threw away.
Really?
Yeah, he just supported them here.
So you saved them?
We had them in a box and we threw them away after about a year when the box got filled.
We just threw them away.
You had a box full of knives?
Yeah, and they weren't our knives.
And there were all kinds of knives.
Old knives, new knives.
So...
At this point, you had no idea.
Well, you were in discussions with this thing, right?
I mean, obviously... Up to a point, we weren't.
Because in a way, like I said at the beginning, for the first year or so, he talked at us.
He wouldn't really communicate with us.
Later on, he started communicating with me.
But at this point, he wasn't.
The last thing was before the Spear came.
I'll talk to you about the Spear.
But before they came, the Indians came.
The Shamans came.
Indians?
Okay.
Very nice people.
They really tried to help us.
There were two shamans came, a female and a male, and I went with them upstairs.
Now, no one was upstairs.
The entity took over the upstairs.
It became his upstairs.
You could feel it if you started going up the steps.
You'd get halfway up the steps and it was like something would just tell you no.
You didn't want to come back down the steps.
You just left it alone.
So we didn't use the upstairs for like six years.
Lord!
The two shamans were upstairs.
They asked me to come with them.
I went with them.
They did a ritual.
They had, I remember, feathers, and they were putting sage, I think, all through the rooms and chanting.
They opened up the door, which is right at the top of the steps that goes into the attic.
They opened up the door, and they would blow the sage in.
And as they would blow the sage in, a second later, something would blow it back out.
And their reaction?
Yeah, you could see the smoke go in, but you could see something blow it out again.
And their reaction to that?
They said, we have to go into that room.
So they went into the attic.
I stood right at the doorway so I could be right there seeing what was going on.
Now the attic had a pink insulation around the walls.
And he told me he was going to confront this and make it show itself.
I stood right there and watched this happen, and it's something I'll remember to my dying day.
As I watched, the pink installation came off the sides of the wall and formed into a gigantic head.
It was like a five-foot head hanging from a rafter.
And it was just a head, that was all, and I only saw the side view of it.
I didn't see the front.
And it had a huge chin and a large nose and on the side of its head, instead of an ear, it had a circular horn that started there and made a circle and went up and over the top of its head into a big horn.
How are you taking this, Debbie?
Even the un-average person could not take this kind of stuff happening.
You know, this is the truth.
I don't know why, but from the very beginning, I was not frightened of this.
It was almost like one of us in the house had to be the strong one.
My husband couldn't.
He had a bad heart.
My father-in-law wasn't a good person.
My mother-in-law was weak, and I had a child.
Someone had to defend the family, and it was left to me.
So I just... That was it.
Alright, Deborah Muffet, hold on.
The head part, that would have been over the top.
Way, way, way over the top for me.
I'm R. Bell.
This is Midnight in the Desert.
I'll tell you all about the mouse in a moment.
Unbelievable!
absolutely unbelievable.
What's set in the dark, stays in the dark.
Call Midnight in the Desert at 1-952-CALL-ART.
That's 1-952-225-5278.
Alright, my guest is Deborah Moffat.
She's in a nightmare nobody can even contemplate.
We'll only part way through the story.
It's just... It's off the charts.
Totally off the charts, as you can hear.
I want to take a second because I've never had anything like this happen before.
Now, I'm telling you, you heard me when it happened.
I just took a picture and I sent it to Keith.
Now, it's not of the mouse because the mouse is vanished.
Gone.
Here's the way it came down.
And it's just too weird.
I mean, on my right, literally, on my right is a Denon CD player, right?
And above that, I've got a special Denon machine that plays Keith's voice.
I've got the evil Keith on my mind.
We'll play Ross's voice.
You know, like that.
When I hit a button.
That's where the mouse was standing.
Now that's directly in front of me.
Right next to me!
And this mouse is sitting there, eyes open, looking at me.
Curious.
Or something.
I mean, why would a mouse get that close to a human and then just sit there and stare?
I turned to my left to get my camera and, you know, I started to open the camera app and I turned back around and it was gone.
That was freaky.
Let me tell you that was freaky.
That mouse I'm going to name Abby.
I need to do something with the name Abby.
Oh God, I wonder where it is.
What was weird about it is, A, it was so close to me.
B, it could have set off Ross's voice.
It was just standing there.
And C, it was staring at me.
I'm telling you.
It looked right in the eyes.
It looked at me.
I know.
Too much, right?
But it happened, and I had to get that off my chest.
So anyway, I sent a picture to Keith of the equipment I'm talking about, and he's going to post it up there, I think.
You can take a look.
You'll see how close this is to me.
It's right here.
I could have... Well, if I'd been fast and had the guts, I could have grabbed him with my hand.
That's how close he was.
But the little sucker was staring at me.
All right.
Gathering back together, it's just weird.
It's weird that it happens when I'm getting a story like this from Debbie.
Hey, Debbie.
Yes?
I mean, that's almost impossible.
This thing is ruining your life.
Yeah, they're pretty, you know, I'm at the kind of yeah timid and scattered this guy was I could have grabbed him with my
hand That's how close he was and just staring at me
Weird. Okay. Yeah. Anyway back to your weirdness So
This thing is ruining your life it's ruining your house Literally destroying your house. It's putting knives hither
and yon in places where you might sit God, that's an awful thought.
And there's no help to be had, no matter who you see.
We tried everything.
It got to the point where my mother-in-law was becoming distraught, which you couldn't blame her.
She had no life.
She couldn't even have money to do anything.
I believe that this entity, whatever it was, and I still to this day don't really know what it was, I don't think it had the power to actually kill her.
I think it wanted her to commit suicide and was trying to drive her to commit suicide.
That's a very good point.
I don't because with the power it had I can't believe it couldn't just snapped her neck
if it wanted to.
You know that's a very good point.
It seems like it was trying to either scare her to death or as you point out have her
take her own life.
Right.
Now, now.
When they moved down to downstairs with us in the master bedroom, the entity no longer wrote upstairs, because no one was up there to see it.
Right.
It started writing in the guest bathroom downstairs.
So it moved from upstairs to downstairs, not living, but writing.
Right.
So that's where it did all its writing.
And it wouldn't write a little bit.
It would write morning, noon, and night, constantly writing.
Examples, please, of what it said.
it would, like I said, at first it would tell us what to do.
How it changed was like this.
This was after like two years of going through this, this constant terror, especially with
my mother-in-law.
And it got to the point it was just too much.
Then something happened.
The entity locked her in the pantry.
She got up to get some paper towels.
It locked her in the pantry, and it did grab her by the throat and throttled her.
Now, like I said, with its strength and its power, it could have killed her if it wanted to, but it didn't.
But it did leave marks on her throat.
At that time, it just got to the point where I felt so helpless, because what can you do?
I couldn't... I was trying to protect her the best I could, but how can you fight something you can't see?
So I went into the mirror at this time.
I was very angry with the entity and I confronted it and I told it, I said, listen, I'm going to treat you with respect.
You'll treat me with respect.
You're not to touch my child, my husband, or my mother-in-law, Lee.
And I left the bathroom to see what it was going to say.
A minute later, I walked back in and it wrote on the mirror, I will not touch the child.
I will not touch your husband, but Lee belongs to me.
That's when it told me, when I asked it why, that's when it wrote the story of what happened in the past and why she belonged to him.
Well, wait a minute.
It wrote the whole story?
Yes.
It took a cub an hour.
I would go in, he'd write on the mirror, I'd erase it, I'd go back out, come back in.
He told me the whole story.
Debbie, I don't get how you held up through this.
You know what?
It's because I didn't have a choice.
Well, yeah, I do get that.
Yes, I get that.
But when I say held up, I meant psychologically held up.
How did you, you know, not go bonkers?
Because I was so worried about everybody else and making sure they were safe and trying to appease the entity at the same time.
Because I found out from that time on, that's when I started calling the entity Mr. Entity.
I wouldn't call it Prince, because I wouldn't give it that power over me to call it Prince, because that's what it wanted.
So I couldn't call it Entity.
So I just called it, I told it I'd treat it with respect, and it sounds silly, but I started calling it Mr. Entity.
From that time on, I referred to him as Mr. Entity, and he would call me Debbie.
And from that time on, instead of talking at us, he started to actually communicate with me.
He would talk, he would write to me on the mirror.
Did you get any photographs of all this?
You know, this is funny.
When it first started, we had one researcher come and he would say, now take pictures of everything that happens and document everything so that you can show the next researcher or you can show me what's happening.
Yes.
So we would.
Right on the mirror, we'd write it in a book and we'd try to take pictures.
Now, some of the pictures aren't great because you have to remember back at that time, it wasn't the digital camera where you could see if you took a good picture.
Right.
And taking pictures of the mirror, you got a lot of glare.
Right?
I get that, but you did.
You did take pictures.
During this whole, like, six year period, we must have taken a thousand pictures.
Okay.
Right?
But this is what would happen.
The next researcher that would come would say to us, now, you've got to get rid of all these pictures.
You've got to get rid of all this documentation, because you're keeping it here.
You're acknowledging it and you're making it stay.
So throw all this away.
So it was a constant taking pictures, throwing them away, taking pictures, throwing them away.
So luckily, my husband, who was a hoarder, he would not throw them all away.
He had a box, which I didn't know about until he died.
He would take some of the pictures and he'd throw them all the time in the box.
So I have like over 200 pictures, 250 pictures of the demon writing and the things that happened.
With the negatives.
So I have a box full of those.
But they're not all the pictures, because we threw most of them away.
Yeah, but it would be enough.
Yeah.
It would be enough.
In the book, The Unwelcome.
That's why I actually wrote the second book.
Because the second book, actually, I just wanted to show people the pictures.
There's over 100 pictures in that book of what went on.
And that's what's so fascinating.
Even me, who went through it, See for 25 years we hid it because once it left we decided we're not going to talk about it because people said well don't talk about it because you'll bring it back so we didn't want it to come back so we never for 25 years we made a vow we never spoke to a person about it no one ever knew anything about it even my kids didn't know about it.
You said you indicated that something strange happened well go ahead your husband died?
My husband died, and I was cleaning out the closet, and I found the box in the back of the closet.
And I opened it up, and it was full of the pictures from the demon.
Okay, and those are in your book?
Yeah.
Just a hundred of them.
I have hundreds more.
You have a hundred pictures in the book.
That's pretty darn good, I'd say.
Yeah, I wanted people to see it.
I wanted people to realize that, you know, this happened.
Look.
Look what it did.
Look how it communicated.
Okay, your books are A Deadly Haunting and Unwelcome.
The Deadly Haunting is the fiction version.
It's based on the true story, but it's more fictionalized, but 95% of it's accurate.
Okay.
I wrote Unwelcome because I wanted everything to be the truth.
I wanted people to know just what happened, and I wanted to show the pictures.
All right.
Now, you indicate that something happened involving animals.
What was that?
Oh, this is very sad for me to talk about because the entity killed our animals.
When we left the first houses down on the other street, we left our dog down there the last night.
We were going to pick him up in the morning because we had no place to put him and we had wrought iron gates and the entity took the dog and he actually pulled the dog, a pit bull, a big heavy pit bull, it actually pulled it through one of the three, four inch wrought iron Oh my God.
So half the dog was on one side and half was on the other.
Oh my God.
And I just, I could cry when I even think about it that, why we left that dog there.
I remember saying, please let's take him.
No, he'll be okay one night.
We'll pick him up tomorrow.
And he wasn't.
Um.
It's so sad.
It was just.
All right.
You did contact Ed and Lorraine Warren, right?
Right.
I contacted Ed and Lorraine Warren.
What did they do?
They were very nice people.
They came out.
This was back in, let's see, 88, I think.
Or was it 89?
The beginning of 89.
It was in February of 89, I think it was.
They were very nice people.
I contacted them.
They said they were coming out to California to have some kind of convention or something with a friend of theirs.
I think his name was Chuck Moses from Los Angeles.
And so they said they would stop and try and see if they could help us.
Ed Warren was, I mean, you could sit and talk to him for hours.
He was such a very kind, nice man.
Lorraine was a little different.
She's a little standoffish, a little reserved, but they were both very nice.
I remember they came into the house.
Now, whenever the entity did something, very few times did you actually ever get to see it.
It's like you had to turn your back or blink an eye before it happened.
And this is one of the things I actually saw.
When Lorraine came into the room, she walked by a toy box and the toy box slid right out in front of her.
So I actually saw that.
And that was one of the rare times it did something in front of someone.
Okay, so the Warrens tried.
No luck.
We all sat down.
She said, I'm going to walk through the house.
She walked through the house.
She came back down.
She was rather pale.
I remember she looked at us and said, this demon is the most powerful, ancient, evil demon I have ever experienced.
She said, this is bad.
I remember turning dead and saying, this is bad, Ed.
This is really bad.
Of course, my mother-in-law, I mean, my mother-in-law almost passed out when she heard this because it really scared her.
They told us they didn't have any contacts in California, someone who could come and help us, other than them.
And so they decided, Ed said he would do a rite of provocation.
I don't know what that is.
Actually, I really don't know either.
It's just he called, he kind of confronted the demon.
I think there was more than one thing in the house because you got the feeling there was one one strong thing and maybe some other things that weren't quite as powerful but there was like one main thing that was the mean bad one and I remember they went in and we all sat in a circle and at the time we had a researcher staying with us whose name was Gary Who was brought to us by a friend who became a good friend of ours, Brian Hurst.
He tried to help us.
He was a medium in Los Angeles, a quite famous medium.
He tried to help us.
He wouldn't go into trance in the house because he said it was just too dangerous.
But he did try to get people to come and help us.
And he brought Gary.
Gary was a researcher.
He was staying with us.
And the entity just hated Gary.
He would torment Gary as much as he tormented my mother-in-law.
So we sat in the circle and Ed and Lorraine brought a gentleman, I think his name was Kevin, who videotaped everything.
He videotaped it.
And I remember we were sitting in the living room and Ed did prayers and he did some other kinds of things and then he called forth the demon.
Now my father-in-law was sitting right next to me and I remember my father-in-law started to change.
Excuse me.
I don't mean literally change into a monster, but there was subtle changes.
His arm curled up to his chest.
His back started to bend forward so he couldn't lean forward.
He kind of became something different than what he was.
And he stood up, and he walked towards Ed, and he dragged his one leg, and he went towards Ed.
And when Ed saw him coming towards him, he got frightened, and he held up a little piece of wood he had, and he said, this is a holy relic.
from the cross, you can't harm me and my father-in-law in a voice that was completely different than his but his
voice said I'm going to bite your hand off and take your hand in
that wood and chew it up and spit it in your face. And then all of a
sudden my father-in-law turned around
walked back in the couch, sat down on the couch and went back to normal
This is a horror movie It is! It is!
It's like anything that ever... I mean, we had, you know, I don't mention the things like the smells and the pounding and the banging because they seem so non-consequential compared to the other things that happened.
Right, right.
But we had all that.
We had, like for two weeks, we had like rats infesting.
I mean, they were so bad that in the pantry you'd open the door and they'd be hanging upside down swinging in the pantry.
Really?
We had birds for over a week that would bombard our windows in the bedroom.
I wish you hadn't told the rat story.
I'm still looking for that thing.
Yeah, we hadn't seen rats.
Wonderful.
Rats.
Hanging upside down.
Hanging upside down, just swinging.
I mean, and they wouldn't move.
You'd go in and you'd look at them, and they'd just look at you.
I mean, it was like they weren't afraid of you.
No, you're scaring me, Debbie, because you're doing this on purpose, aren't you?
So, Mr. Entity, I remember asking Mr. Entity.
It got to the point when I would communicate.
It got to, if I communicated with Mr. Entity, he loved to talk.
I would go in and talk to him all the time.
If I talked to him, he wouldn't be as destructive.
It's like he was using his energy to communicate instead of destroy the house.
Now, are you really serious about the rats just staring at you?
I swear to you, they just would stare at you.
They wouldn't run.
They'd just look at you.
And we'd have to back, I remember backing out of the pantry with Ma, and we'd say, oh my God.
And then, you know, my father-in-law said, oh, don't worry.
He said, I'll go get rat poison.
And Mr. Entity wrote on the mirror, if you get rat poison, not only the rats will get the poison.
Oh my God.
This is what he did.
He would threaten us, but then he would back up his threats.
He wanted us to bring a gentleman here who had come to the house before, who he said he had known in a past life.
And he said, if we didn't bring him, something bad would happen.
Well, we didn't want to bring this gentleman back to the house.
You know, it wasn't the type of person we wanted to bring back to the house.
So he killed another dog.
You see, that's what he did.
He just, what could we do?
How can you fight that?
You can't fight something you can't see.
There was no one to help us.
It was just a matter of surviving.
Our life became So bizarre.
It was like what was abnormal to someone else would be normal to us.
Getting up, looking for knives, pulling knives out of the wall.
I mean, we got to the point where we would just do it.
It's like it wouldn't frighten us anymore because it became so part of our life.
Well, now you're starting to scare me a little bit.
You know, here I am listening to your story.
You know, I'm 70 years old, Debbie, 70.
A mouse does not come up two feet away from you, and that's how close this mouse was.
I took a photograph, by the way, and sent it to Keith, so if you want to see how close it is to me, it's the device that allows me to play Ross Mitchell.
This mouse, if he had put his foot forward just a hair, would have set off one of those and played Ross Mitchell.
That's how close it was, but what got to me Was a little guy sat there and just stared at me.
Right.
It's like they're not afraid of you.
It's like they're almost just staring you down.
Well, yes.
That's never happened in my 70 years.
Debbie, and here you are telling this story tonight, and you get to rats staring at you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, you're freaking me out a little bit now.
When we come back, I want to sort of finish up and then I want to begin to take some calls.
Would you mind doing that?
Oh, certainly.
I'd enjoy it.
All right.
What a night this has been.
And if she had not come to the story on the rats, I would have been probably... I'd be feeling a lot better right now.
I'm telling you, I've never had anything like that happen in my life.
You know, they run.
They should be afraid of us, right?
This guy was staring straight at me.
And that must have gone on for 10 to 15 seconds or so before I turned around to get the camera.
I'd run six with the camera.
Then he was gone.
I shouldn't say he.
I named her Abby, right?
Ay yi yi.
This is Midnight in the Desert.
Thanks for watching.
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the who initiated a long sequence with our goal
please coordinate your belongings and call one nine five two
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call art well okay
uh...
cheers to the person who said what we need not house abby normal
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Yeah, thanks a lot.
All right.
My guest is staring rats, Deborah Moffitt.
So if you have questions for her, and I can imagine you would, Um, I certainly do, and incidentally, you can go to my website, not only seeing a picture of where that mouse was, it's the little device with all the little white buttons.
That's where the mouse was.
Uh, and also, you can see some pictures that Deborah took.
So, for all those reasons, go to my website now, and click on a picture of my guest, Deborah Moffitt.
And follow the links.
Apparently, it'll go over to her website.
There may be some pictures on my website.
I'm not really sure.
We're about to go to the phones, and I really do want your help in asking questions.
This is a very, very long-term, significant haunting case.
Or demon case.
I guess a demon case, right?
We'll talk more about that.
Anyway, here's the talk.
You're welcome to call now at area code 952-225-5278.
That's area code 952-225-5278.
You can reach us as well on Skype.
That's area code 952-225-5278.
You can reach us as well on Skype.
North America, we are simply MITD51.
Midnight in the desert 51.
M-I-T-D.
Just the letters.
It's not case-sensitive.
You can make it anything you want.
M-I-T-D 5-1.
If you're outside of North America, it's M-I-T-D 5-5.
M-I-T-D 5-5.
Once again, here's Debbie.
Okay, Debbie, this is such an incredible, incredible story in every way I can think of.
You then called, and you sort of gave us a story, Dr. Paglini.
And a lot of people on this show have a lot of requests, a lot of respect for Dr. Paglini, the late, great Dr. Paglini.
Like I said, she was just awesome.
I had her on the show many times.
And here's what I'll tell you.
I had all kinds of seers on the show.
Debbie, I had, you know, all kinds of psychics and people like that.
Trying to predict the future.
Nobody.
Nobody even came close to being as accurate as Dr. Paglini.
It was bizarre how accurate she was.
So if she couldn't do it, I guess nothing could do it, and she did say she couldn't get this thing out, but she felt it.
Right.
Well, like I said, when she came here, tried to get rid of it, then she called up later, like within a week's time or so, and she had my father-in-law write things on the mirror for her.
She wrote, Dr. Baglini, blank, blank.
And at the bottom of the one thing she had my father write, God protects us.
And Mr. Entity crossed off God and put, Prince protects us.
Alright, there must have been a way that you finally got rid of this thing.
What did you do?
First, let me tell you about the spear.
Oh, that's right, the spear.
Amazing.
That's something I still have today.
One night, my father-in-law jumps out of bed and he said, oh, like something had touched him.
And it was like three in the morning.
We go over to his bed and in his bed, he picks up a spearhead.
It's about 17 inches long.
It's made of iron.
Some type of metal.
It looks like iron.
And it's hand forged.
It's really old.
And Mr. Entity writes on the mirror that he wants a blood sacrifice.
And provides a spear.
And the spear must be used.
He wanted my father-in-law to use the spear on my mother-in-law because he had to have blood for his ritual.
Okay.
So the next day, I took possession of the spear because I knew if I had it, Mr. Enschede never touched anything that belonged to me.
For some reason, I think he respected me.
He just stayed away from me.
If I was with my mother-in-law, he wouldn't harm her.
If I was away from her, he harmed her.
If I had something that belonged to me, it wasn't touched.
I took the spear and I put it away because I knew if I had it, Mr. Enschede couldn't have it.
We took it to the next day to the Los Angeles Museum, History Museum, to see if we could have it identified.
Right.
The gentleman there, we got to go in the back with all the tables, and the gentleman came out and told us, he looked at it, and he told us it was a spearhead from the Belgian Congo area.
It was over 200 years old.
And he said it looked like it was brand new.
He couldn't understand it because it looked so new, like it was just made.
And he said it wasn't for hunting, it wasn't for warfare because of the way it was sharpened, he could tell.
He said this was the type of spearhead that's used for, the shamans use for magical rituals.
I remember when I came home and I asked Mr. Entity, where did you get this?
He said I got it from the Congo.
But he told us it was a very special Special implement and that it had to be used for the blood ritual.
This was a very conversational demon.
It talked all the time.
Matter of fact, I told it, no, you're not.
I actually said, no, you're not getting a blood ritual.
I'm not going to let it happen.
And it got so upset, it blew out all the windows in the top floor.
Who did all the repairs?
My father-in-law and myself.
I mean, we had big tubs of plaster, because he used to gouge in the wall.
If you look at some of the pictures you can see, he used to just take something and gouge in the walls.
That's why I was actually happy when he started writing on the mirror, because when he started writing on the mirror, he stopped gouging everything in the walls.
I remember one of the researchers said to us, well, why are you letting him write on the mirror?
Just take the soap away.
Let him write on the mirror.
And then I tried to explain to him, well, if we take the soap away, he destroys the house.
It's best that he puts it on the mirror, we can wipe it off.
Right.
Okay.
And also, if I communicated with him, he didn't, like I said, he didn't just, he wasn't after my mother-in-law, and he wasn't after the house every minute.
It was like he used his energy to communicate, and he liked to communicate.
I can see now...
For example, the front of your book, Unwelcomed, has what looks like a bloody... Is that a spear?
That's the spear.
That's the spear.
It looks like blood on it.
Oh my God, look at this.
I can see a bed.
Oh my God, a bed standing on end.
How does that happen?
He would take, now this is strange, the room is a small room, it's a four poster bed, sometimes
we'd come in and the bed would be upside down and you had to take the bed apart to get it,
to put it back up because the bed's too big to turn over in the room.
So it would be upside down.
Upside down's bad enough, but this is like it would have to be balanced to be in this
position.
Yeah, it was.
So like I said, a few things happened in front of you.
Oh, you did get pissed.
Most of everything happened behind your back.
One of the most, I think, amazing, amazing things, even more amazing than the spear and
the reports and everything else, is one picture, two pictures I took in the bathroom.
Now you have to understand, their bathroom mirrors were bolted onto the wall.
Right.
They were never taken from the wall until I redecorated in 2013.
Right.
I would go in, take pictures, and then, you know, we'd look at the pictures.
So I was going through the pictures, looking for pictures to put in the book, and I see one picture And then I see another picture that was taken, they have dates on them, that was taken right afterwards.
Yeah, I see the dates.
And you look at the picture and it's not, the reflection is not the bathroom.
Do you understand what I mean?
Yes.
If you look in the mirror you see the reflection behind the bathroom.
That's the wrong thing, yes, it's the wrong thing.
It's the kitchen.
I can see the kitchen.
I don't know how you could have put up with this.
I really don't.
We couldn't run away from it.
We couldn't get rid of it.
No one could help us.
We just had to survive.
Right.
There came a time, I guess, when you finally got rid of this thing?
Yeah.
It left of its own free will.
Why?
It had an absolute goal, right?
Right.
Here's what happened.
Dr. Maglini, like I told you, she told us how powerful this was.
She said to me, she said, listen, the reason I can't get rid of this is because somebody in the house is giving it permission to stay.
And if someone gives the permission to stay in the house, no one can get rid of it.
She said, I'm not telling you I can get rid of it, even if that person leaves.
She said, but we have a better chance.
So she said, I said, well, who is it?
She said, we'll find out tonight.
She said, I'm going to do something.
She said, tomorrow you call me and you let me know what happens tomorrow night.
Yes.
Okay.
During the, during the middle of the night, I think it was like three 30 or so.
My father-in-law jumps up in bed and he starts coughing like he can't breathe.
Just coughing and coughing and shaking.
And we thought we were going to have to call the ambulance because he wouldn't stop.
Then, just like it started, he laid back down and went right back to sleep like nothing happened.
So the next day I told Dr. Paglini what happened and she said, he's the one that's giving him permission to stay in the house.
And I found out, the entity actually wrote to me and explained to me that my father-in-law, my father-in-law was not a very nice man, not a nice man at all.
And he had got to the point he was sick of my mother-in-law.
And so he was actually encouraging the entity to kill my mother-in-law.
So when the entity explained this to me, then not only did I have to protect her from the entity, but I had to protect her from her husband.
And she was one of these old world Italian ladies.
We would say to her, Ma, you got to get rid of him.
He's got to go or we can't get rid of the entity.
Oh, no, no, it's not him.
It's not him.
We even sent him to a psychiatrist, everything, to try to find out if, you know, the hostility he had towards my mother-in-law.
Nothing helped.
Finally, she made him move out.
When he moved out, the entity didn't leave.
The entity still stayed.
But he became more commun... He liked to talk even more when my father-in-law was gone.
Once he... My father-in-law was gone, and I knew nothing was keeping him in the house.
And Gary was still living with us at the time.
I remember telling Mr. Entity, you have to go now, Mr. Entity.
No one's keeping you here and you're not going to stay here.
Gary, who was a researcher, was kind of down on his luck.
He decided because the Entity was so powerful that if he welcomed him into his life, maybe his life would be better.
So Gary told me, he said, I'm going to go in and I'm going to tell Mr. Entity he can come with me.
I'm leaving.
I'm going to England.
He can come with me.
So I remember I went in and I told Mr. Entity, alright Mr. Entity, it's time for you to leave now.
You have to go.
Gary said, you can go with him.
And the Entity wrote on the mirror, I don't want to leave.
And then he wrote, I will not work with an inferior being.
I will destroy him.
Okay.
I'm going to go to some calls.
You actually, the story did a pretty good job on me tonight.
Hi there.
I think Orleans, Ontario, maybe?
That's right.
This is Kimmy J. And I want to send a shout out to all my DM Talk peeps, especially to Michael and Rob.
Hi Art.
Hi Debbie.
Hi.
I have a question concerning EVPs.
And I'd like to know if Debbie caught any and if she has any up on her website.
You know what?
Back then, no one even brought up the subject of EVPs to us.
We were novices in this.
We were just fighting to stay alive.
I didn't, you know, if someone would have suggested it, I would have tried it.
But no one even suggested it.
You didn't really need to hear voices.
You had it all written out for you.
Right.
You could write it.
Okay, perfect.
Thanks a lot.
You're very welcome.
Listen, folks, be sure you take a look at these photographs.
The ones that are on my website, just down below Debra's picture, you'll see her books, and then you'll see this bat standing on end.
When I mean on end, two legs.
The other two legs clean up in the air.
This was serious stuff.
You'll see a picture of this spear.
I guess that's what it is, a spear.
How big was that?
It's about 17 inches.
Okay.
And it looks like it's made for ritual sacrifice of some kind.
Right.
The entity told me what this spear is possible, has the capability to do, and I won't even talk about it.
I mean, I just keep it put away so it can't hurt anybody, because if the entity gets it again, I'm afraid it'll hurt somebody with it.
Are you afraid it's going to come back?
No.
Good.
Robert, you're on the air with Debbie.
Can I start again?
Yes.
Hello, I just wanted to say Deborah's story, you've moved me and we have a research group here and we have gone through something very similar.
last name on the air on-site i don't get my back so robert
will start again yes uh... hello i just want to take that breast
story you've moved me and uh...
we have a research group here uh... and we have gone through something very
similar we have found that
it's the interaction between when the spirits or demons talk to you and they after the
person someone does need to get permission but also anyone else
anyone sensitive who can hear them.
It's the interaction that seems to give them energy.
The more you talk to them, the more they can affect you.
There's so many people I found going through this now.
I just wanted to let people know that.
And the mouse thing, When I was first in a house, when I first started being able to hear, I didn't believe what I was hearing.
And it's like they wanted to prove it.
And a mouse, a big one, a rat, walked up and stared at me exactly when Art started saying what had happened to him.
Chills just tore through my spine.
This is like the fifth time I've heard this.
The fact that it happened live to Art is just flabbergasting.
So that is... I'm very happy to hear that after that man left, after he was put out of the house, that the entity finally did leave.
At least I can tell some of the people here who are still suffering from that, that there is hope.
They just have to... I wish I knew how your person that helped you made him cough so you could identify who in fact was Uh, giving permission.
I would love to know how to do that.
Is it a prayer?
Is it a ritual?
If you could elaborate on that, I would love it so much.
Thank you.
When Gary gave him, told him he could go with him, Mr. Richard, he said, no, I'm not going.
I want to stay here.
And all I did was say, no, you're not staying here.
You have to leave now.
It's time for you to go.
And he said, I won't work with an inferior being.
And this is so strange because for a demon, when he talked, he said, then he wrote, I said, well, why won't you go with Gary?
He said he has no integrity.
He has no word.
And he gave like a list of things.
And I thought, what a strange thing for a demon to demand from a person to leave with when he's a demon.
Yet he expected the person that he left with to have like integrity.
That was so strange.
Yeah, this whole night is strange.
Let's go on to our next caller.
You're on the air with Deborah.
Hi.
Hey, how are you all doing?
I just wanted to say that I find the subject of opcorts to be extremely interesting.
That's the most interesting thing I've heard tonight.
I just wanted to clarify with you Debbie, there was no apparitions that appeared during the situation?
My mother-in-law saw something twice.
She saw blackness come after.
It actually chased her down the hall.
And she saw like the black, like a blackness.
Nothing with the eyes, no form, just black.
It went after her twice when she was alone.
A shadow figure of some kind?
Actually she said it wasn't even a figure, it was just blackness.
Like a black cloud.
The only thing, like I said, that I saw that resembled when it showed itself with the insulation.
Have you ever heard of the documentary, The Afterlife Investigation, by either of you?
There's a lot of... No.
No.
It's a study by Skoll.
That's what the name of the... It was a British study of...
These sort of things. It's very interesting that I think both of you should check out. It's called the afterlife
Investigations and one of the best documentaries I've ever seen dealing with apports and all kinds of different things.
All right Well, I'll check it out to be sure
Do you remain interested in this sort of thing, Deborah, or do you want to put it behind you?
You know what?
I still have an interest in it.
I don't want to get involved in it because I just, you know, I've been there, done it.
I just don't want it.
But it's still very interesting.
Why it's interesting to me is because I have so many unanswered questions.
How things happened, why they happened, who this was.
I would love someone to research it and say, you know, this is what really happened.
This is what it was.
This is why it could do this.
That I would love, because I just have no answers.
I get it.
Okay, let's go to Twin Cities for Deborah.
Hi.
Hi, Art.
This is Rocky.
I had a couple questions.
One of them was answered.
I was going to ask if she tried removing the soap, but I guess she answered that.
So, I was wondering if the entity could kill animals, why she thinks that it couldn't actually harm any of the humans?
Because I believe that a human is a higher soul, and I don't think the demon could kill it.
I think that's just... I think even demons have rules.
That's my own belief.
I don't know if it's true or not.
Demons have rules?
Yeah.
I think everything has certain rules, and I really don't believe a demon can actually kill someone.
I think they drive them to suicide, or they scare them to death, or they influence somebody else to hurt them.
Actually, that may be a pretty good point, because rarely do you ever hear, but a dog torn in half, literally, I mean, my God.
It was horrible.
Absolutely horrible.
Anything else, Fuller?
Seeing the image of the spear, it sort of reminded me of images of ancient relics about the Spear of Destiny, the spear that was used to pierce the side of Jesus.
It does look very ancient to me.
Yeah.
There are different relics throughout history that had claimed to be it.
The one that I've seen images of, it was just the point of the spear very similarly, similar to what she took a picture of.
Did you see the picture of the bed up above?
Yeah.
Yikes!
This is the serious stuff that you see in horror movies, really it is.
Okay, well thank you, Caller.
You've written books.
Do you think, Debbie, anybody biting on a movie?
You know what?
I never even pursued that.
My first goal was just being able to tell people what happened after so many years of hiding it.
I just felt so good just telling people, look, this really happened.
I mean, that was my first goal, just to get it out there, to let people know what happened, to be able to just tell people about it.
Yeah, I get it.
That helps to be able to talk to people.
There's no question about it.
It did.
It really did help.
All right.
Let's go to Chase, I believe it is, on Skype.
Hello.
Hello, how are you guys?
We're fine.
Good, thank you.
Great.
Deborah, I wanted to ask you if you ever did any research on Prince, actually.
I vaguely remember something about Solomon in the Old Testament working with some form of demon called Prince.
Is there any kind of research on the triangle with the tail?
You know, we had Todd Hendrickson, who's a researcher right now, looking into it, and he hasn't found anything that matches it completely yet.
He's still looking, he's still researching, but no one can come up with it.
But you'll see, if you see some of the pictures in the book, I mean, he put this symbol everywhere.
So it was his mark.
Wow, that's very interesting.
That's the only question I had, and in times like this, it really makes me miss Father Malcolm Martin, hearing this kind of story.
All right, thank you very much for the call and take care.
This is just an odd night all the way around.
Hello there, you're on the air with Debra.
Hello?
Hello.
Hi, I just wanted to say that in your picture where you're supposed to have the mouse or whatever right behind that machine that says Denon, it looks like the little mouse is looking at you from underneath the white wire.
No, no, no.
Okay, you see the Denon machine, right?
And then there's another machine on top of it with a whole bunch of white buttons, right?
Yeah.
That's where it was standing.
And if you look right behind, there's like a little white square on there.
Yeah, it's an LCD.
The little white square is an LCD display.
And he had his feet on that.
He was just sitting there.
She was just sitting there staring at me.
Just staring at me.
Kind of like Debbie said the rats were staring.
Seriously.
There's something behind that.
Underneath the twisted black and white wire.
It looks like there's something furry.
I think it's the mouth.
I don't think so.
Trust me.
I've been doing nothing but looking.
It's not there now.
But thank you for the call.
Thank you.
Take care.
That sounded like a youngster, proving my point that, uh, we get them all the time.
Uh, Chaz, hello, you're on the air with Deborah.
Hey Art, this is Chas Cullen from Vegas.
Welcome.
Hi Debra, good evening.
I have a quick question for you.
I know I've heard a lot of people who deal with this type of thing mention that the more you talk about it, the more type of power you give it and you acknowledge it and you know, welcome it and that type of thing.
And I know you've mentioned that you weren't really worried about it coming back.
I mean, it could be a possibility.
What would you do?
How would you handle it if it did come back?
Hmm.
I truly believe, believe with my whole soul, it can't come back here.
It won't come back and it can't come back here.
It's gone from here.
It's still out there somewhere, tormenting someone, but it's not going to be me or my family.
Oh, well, let's hope it's not out there.
Let's hope it's gone for good.
Did you get to see the photographs?
I did.
You know the one with the mirror and the writing on the mirror?
Yeah.
It looked like a flash from the camera, so that was kind of hard to see.
And she had mentioned it was like the reflection of the kitchen?
Yes.
And not the bedroom or the bathroom?
No, I think she's talking about another picture, perhaps.
Are you?
Yes, a different picture.
If you had the book, it's on nearly the last page.
It's a really good picture.
And it shows the kitchen.
And it's like, how can this be?
It's being taken in the bathroom.
Wow.
Well, the one of the bed was, phew, that was pretty wicked, man.
Yeah, that's kind of like out of any horror movie you can name.
All right, Chas, thank you very much and take care.
Let's go to, oh, how about Benton, Arkansas, on the phone.
Hello.
Hi, this is Joseph.
This is a first-time caller.
How you doing, Art?
Very well, Joseph.
Thank you for calling.
Great to have you.
Well, yeah, it's great to be on the show, man.
I really like it.
I was going to ask Debbie, though.
Did you ever have anybody like a ceremonial magician?
Anybody that did things like that?
Yes, we did.
Did that work at all?
Nothing worked.
Matter of fact, Mr. Entity would make fun of them when they left.
Or if they left anything around, like some witches would come and they'd leave candles.
You'd turn around and Mr. Entity would take the candles and throw them in the swimming pool.
We had all kinds of religious objects and candles in the bottom of the pool.
Well, I was just wondering that because I've actually seen that work before and I don't know if you're familiar with Robert Monroe or the Monroe Institute.
I am.
Sometimes it's hard to tell if this is just an astral being that's stuck and angry or is it really a demonic deep part of our consciousness like an evil part of us all because really the spirit world is a part of every one of us.
So that's just my belief anyways.
Maybe.
Do you know what I can tell you honestly?
I don't know really what it was.
I just know it was very evil and it was a very destructive thing.
Scary enough not to think about it, huh?
Yeah, it is.
I just let it go.
I must say, you held up so well, Debbie.
So really well, I'm amazed.
I would not have held up that well, I guarantee you.
In fact, this stupid little mouse just has me going now.
And so, if I were to see something like the picture you have up there of the bed, up on end, impossible, absolutely impossible, I'd run.
I would run, and I wouldn't stop running until I thought I was far away from whatever was happening.
But you didn't have that option.
I don't know.
It was running right with us.
Yeah, exactly.
So you had no options left.
All right, hold it where you are.
Everybody, all those lines are full.
We have a Skype availability always, so you can try that.
In North America, we're MITD51.
That's MITD51.
Outside the country?
Outside North America, MITD 55.
And of course our national number, when we get some free lines, 952-225-5278.
952-225-5278 and we'll give you the first time caller line when I come back.
Music Midnight Matters are best handled by those that understand
how to move in the darkness, like Art Bell.
To call the show, please dial 1-952-CALL-ART.
That's 1-952-225-5278.
What a night!
Alright, that's our national number.
Skype, of course, at MIT D51 or 55, outside the country.
And our first time caller line.
I always forget to give that out.
It's area code 775.
285-5800.
That's area code 775-285-5800 if you have never called the program before.
Debra Moffitt is on here with about the best horror story I guess I've ever heard, including photographs, which you can see in artbill.com and you can make your way over to her site and see Many more.
It was a six-year odyssey of sheer terror with knives and spears, dogs ripped in half, and oh, you name it, it happened.
Let's go to Matt on Skype.
You're on the air.
Hey, good morning, Aaron here.
Good morning.
Matt from New Orleans.
New Orleans?
Yeah.
You know, I should add, we are... By the way, we're working real hard on WWL in New Orleans.
Yes, I read that, and that's going to be unbelievable.
That's going to be great.
Big monster WWL.
You can hear it all the way into North Louisiana.
So I've heard, yes.
Great entertaining show tonight.
I just had a couple real quick questions, Debra.
Did anyone ever see the Mr. Entity?
No, it never was right in front of you.
You had to turn your back or leave the room for a minute and come back.
And I may have missed this earlier, but was there ever any smell?
I don't know why through the whole show it just smelled like old spice or something.
There were a lot of those things.
We had the smells.
It smelled like rotting food, rotting flesh, noises, poundings.
I remember the night before the shamans came to the house, the whole night it pounded on the walls in the beat of like the war.
Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.
You know, and the entity, I knew the entities, the shamans were coming the next night and it pounded like that the whole night before they came.
So we had all that.
All right.
Thanks a lot, Art.
You're welcome.
You know, I can smell something odd now, too.
I wasn't even going to mention that.
Something smells a little different or weird in here.
I think what it is, is I've been psychologically traumatized by Abby Normal and your story.
Convinced that's what it is.
All right, let's go to the phone and I think Washington Silverdale.
Hi.
Hello.
Hello.
You know, I wanted to say I truly believe everything you've said, but what I'd like to encourage you to do for future research people, Um, because in the past we've had extraordinary stories and there's not enough research that's been able to be done and somebody will, you know, pass away or family members pass away and then we're kind of, the community of researchers are just kind of left with, with well, hearsay, you know, because there was no proof.
Well, she sure had a lot of researchers there, ma'am.
She sure did.
Yes, she did.
That's not what I'm getting at.
And you know what?
I still welcome anyone who'd like to research it.
I'm open to telling them just what happened, showing them everything.
Of course.
I would like answers myself.
What I'd like to encourage you to do for two reasons is that situation where the woman had died or been killed and placed in a rug.
Yes.
You know, in that situation, while you still remember the dates and the woman's name and identification enough that you knew about her and the individual that she was living with, if you'd call the cold case detectives in that area, just give them a little information.
That way there's been some kind of, not that I don't believe that this entity could have done that, but you've helped with that situation, Case, that woman's family, and you've helped with that.
But also in the future, that gives validation that you've done everything you can to isolate that out of the realm of her being murdered by a person.
You know, I think those kind of things, while that's still available, that could... Ma'am, understand, ma'am, understand.
That murder could have been committed by a person.
I mean, there was domestic abuse going on there, so... Very definitely.
And so, you know, not to say that that individual that could have murdered her couldn't have been attacked by this entity and caused it, you know, caused the person to do it, too.
So, I truly believe everything you've said.
As much as this valid, that would even validate your efforts to try to push this forward, because I do believe everything you've said, and I think you're right on the trail.
But those kinds of researches tell, you know, and you've done everything you can.
You're a very brave woman, I'll tell you, and I don't think you have any alternatives, but you're incredible.
So thank you so much.
Thank you.
Yes, six years.
There's no way to get away from it.
There's no way to run away from it.
There's no way to stop it.
And God knows she had everybody in there.
A lot of people you know, and I know, tried and didn't have any luck with it.
So let's go to, I don't know where it is, but on the phone, you're on the air.
Hi Art, thanks for taking my call.
I have a few quick questions for Debra and then I could take my answers off the air.
Number one, Did anyone at any time demand to know the identity of this entity?
Yes.
And did it ever identify itself?
As Prince.
Oh, okay.
What part of California did this happen in?
The Rancho Cucamonga area.
Okay, thank you.
I know it well.
Also, other than the five-foot head with the horn coming around the top of the head, Did the entity ever show itself to anyone?
It just showed itself as blackness to my mother-in-law.
Like black cloud, twice it chased her.
It was a cloud, not an actual like, type of form.
No, she said it was more like a, like a blackness.
Okay, well good luck.
I hope it doesn't return to haunt you anymore and I give you kudos for what you put up with for six years.
You're a very strong woman, Debra.
You're welcome.
Thank you.
Apparently it doesn't respond well to a cross or a Bible or a religious artifact of any kind, right?
It used to.
What it did to all her statues, her religious statues, it would snap the heads off.
This is a scary story.
I just don't know how you made it through, but you had no choice again.
So, you kept a very level head.
It had a certain thing it did.
Snapped heads and broke off every left arm.
God, this is a scary story.
I just don't know how you made it through, but you had no choice again.
Still, you kept a very level head.
I mean, as I hear you talk about it now, it seems like you did keep a very level head.
Yeah, I did.
You know, and if you probably heard this story from my mother-in-law's or my husband's perspective, it'd probably be a lot scarier.
Because I was not really, I was, I was frightened for my family.
What it could do unto them.
Of course.
That's what I was frightened for.
But I wasn't frightened of it.
It was almost like, it's okay.
I know it's not going to hurt me.
I have to be here to protect them.
All right, well, let's go to the phones.
Down to San Antonio, Texas.
Hello there.
Well, hello.
Hi.
Thanks for taking my call.
God, I've enjoyed your show for years.
Thank you.
You're welcome.
I really mean it, too.
I can't, you know, for the first hour and a half or two hours, I've been listening to, you know, you and Deborah talk.
Right.
And at first, I was I am the eternal skeptic, and I'm going like, oh, really?
Oh, come on!
But now that I've heard her entire story, I'm actually kind of creeped out myself.
It kind of scared me.
I have a very good friend.
I'm not going to put her name out on the air, but she has a daughter who seems to attract these things, too.
Was never there to actually see these things, but I've known this woman for like 20 years, and I don't think she would really exaggerate about things like chairs moving in her kitchen and stuff.
So even though it took me a while to kind of really get into what Debra was saying, I, you know, like a lot of the callers, I'm actually amazed that Debbie, you were able to actually put up with this for so long.
Except there was no choice.
And, you know, I keep saying the same thing, but there was no choice because this thing followed her.
It wasn't in the house.
It was after mother-in-law.
So there was no choice.
It followed them no matter where they would go.
Even if they went out for the night, it followed them.
So imagine the horror of that.
For six years, I can't even imagine.
You know, this is a freaky story, and I don't get scared easily.
Tonight, I don't know why, Debbie, but this scared me.
You know what?
Mr. Entity was a very, very evil entity.
He was evil.
Yeah, well, it wanted to kill.
So you actually really do believe in, like, there's evil out there?
I mean... I lived with it.
I know it exists.
Wow, okay.
There are bad humans and there are bad whatevers, but evil... I mean, think about it.
Caller, think about it for a second.
If it was you, and this thing began to attack and communicate with you, and it wouldn't matter who you called in, priests, People who were really good, like Evelyn Paglini, the Warrens, with this type of thing, they could do nothing.
There was nobody who could do anything, and you were night and day.
This thing was with you, and there was no way to get rid of it.
Now, that's frightening.
Well, you know, I do a lot of reading, and I'm not overly religious, but what I have learned is that If you're really in that much of a bad situation, I don't think there really is much that a human being can do about it.
And that's when you have to call upon whoever you believe in, you know, God, Jesus, whoever, and you've got to ask them to come in and help you.
They did that.
Sir, they had a priest in there.
Yeah, I know.
Obviously the wrong one.
My mother-in-law prayed continually.
I think her strong belief in God is what got her through this.
Huh.
Because she believed that eventually God would win.
So, goodness would win.
So I think that's what actually kept her sanity through this, was her strong belief in God.
I have a quick question, Deborah.
Why not call another priest?
I mean, if the first priest... We tried other priests.
We went to other priests and they would say, we have to get permission from the bishop to do this.
It was a time when it was almost like the Catholic Church was trying to poo-poo things like this going on.
There was that period, actually, with the church.
Yeah, it was like they didn't want to address the situation.
So, that's what happened.
I mean, we tried other priests.
Okay.
Anything else, Colin?
Well, there is one thing.
You were talking to the young one about the picture of the tenon?
Yes.
And I've been looking at it, and if you look at the LCD, and just above the LCD and below the white and black wires, it does look like there's a mouse hiding there.
It's not, though.
Is it like a rag or something?
That's just a...
What's called a ferrite.
It's a ferrite on a cable.
Like where the twist is?
It's right below the black and white wires.
It's actually sitting on a ferrite, which is a kind of a round thing.
So trust me, it's not a mouse.
Okay.
I just don't understand where the youngling came through.
Yes.
Okay, well thank you very much, Art.
I appreciate your time.
You're very welcome.
Let's go to the phone and say hello.
You're on the air.
Hey, Art.
This is Josh from Dallas.
Hey, Josh.
At first when I heard this, I sort of ran everything through my head and I think the
thing that really got me, I just went on your site and I looked at the book and the symbol
that is on the book.
Now, was that the symbol that Deborah had been shown by this entity?
Yes, that was, it's a triangle with a tail and he put that all over, he even carved it into our car.
Have you ever heard of an Iblis?
No.
That is the symbol of the Iblis Djinn.
What is that?
That is... It is spoke about in the Hadith.
I saw that exact symbol whenever I was in Afghanistan in 2010.
Can you spell that for me?
Really?
Can you spell that please?
I-B-L-I-S.
Okay.
It is the third type of Djinn.
That is why you saw smoke.
That is why you had certain smells.
Now, do you mean like water?
Because this one had a lot of control over water.
Yes, they are, I guess is the term people would know it as, they are elementals.
You had the Iblis, the third kind.
are rooted to one area but are capable of moving about.
The other type, the second type, either takes the form of a dog or a snake and because I was doing some quick research looking into that spear coming from the Congo.
200 years ago in the Congo, King Leopold II had taken over that area and was cutting off hands of people who were not
acting, weren't working fast enough.
That place holds like 50, 60 trillion dollars worth of minerals.
And even here recently, the elected president in the Congo had been executed, and the United States and Belgium had been accused of causing their president of being ousted.
All right, very quickly, in Islam, a beast Is a djinn who refused to bow for Adam.
Does that sound familiar?
Yes.
That is what this is.
Okay.
All right.
Well, thank you very, very much for the call.
That's fascinating.
And I guess you're going to have to look it up, Deborah, and see if you can find the symbol.
Yeah, I will.
Because no one's ever been able to find that symbol.
Okay.
Well, I'll be looking, too.
One last caller, if we have the time.
Hi.
Hi.
Um, my name is Sean.
I'm in Austin, Texas.
Hey, Sean.
Okay, so oddly enough, the guy that was just on the phone.
Yes.
Um, I'm very familiar with what he was talking about and he kind of took the words out of my mouth.
This was definitely a djinn that was interacting with her.
Uh, like he said, they come in the form of a animal and, uh, Yeah, I don't really have much else to say because the previous caller just kind of answered everything.
Yeah, this was definitely a jinn that was messing with her.
That's pretty amazing.
Alright, well thank you so very, very much for the information.
We'll research that.
We'll look for the symbol.
And Debra, we're out of time.
We just did a whole show.
Holy mackerel!
Where did the time go?
But I think we pretty much got the story out.
I just want to tell you, thank you for unraveling that story here, Debra.
Thank you so much, Art.
It's been a pleasure talking to you.
Have a good night, and again, thank you.
Thank you, good night.
Good night.
What a night, in so many ways.
What a night.
I wish I could have snapped that picture for you folks.
I'm not going to be over this for a while, actually.
Just a mouse.
I'd be normal, but just a mouse.
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