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Nov. 2, 2015 - Art Bell

02:24:35

Art Bell MITD - Cody Lundin Survival

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51:52

cody lundin

01:19:38

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Speaker	Time	Text
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I bid you all, good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be in the world's 25 times.
		Each and every one covered by a blanket by this program, Midnight in the Desert.
		I'm Artville.
		Great to be here.
		We have, but as you know, two rules on the show.
		No bad language, because we have the youngsters listening, and one call per show only.
		Those are the rules.
unidentified		It's going to be a really, really, really interesting show tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So we'll get to that.
		I'm tempted to, you know, just launch right into it.
		I'm not, though.
		There are a couple of things I want to call your attention to.
unidentified		Both are up on my website.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And they're a little bit worrisome.
		The first, we're calling the Yellowstone Story, although it is not strictly, really, exactly a Yellowstone story.
		It's adjacent to close.
		However, there are videos and still photographs of what appears to be a gigantic gash in the ground.
		Now, when I say gash, I mean, you know, it's kind of like you went up to an earthquake fault somewhere and just stared at the water, you know, down a long distance as the earth has separated from itself.
		And that's what it looks like.
		It's like it was ripped apart.
		Now, there are some who say, oh no, it was water coming down from a bluff.
		You make up your own mind.
		You take a look and tell me.
		Now, there was no associated earthquake that was recorded in that specific area.
		And you will see in the video that the gentleman points that out.
		We also have a second photograph I want you to look at.
		And this is sent to us by a listener who also was a drone operator, I would presume, or a friend of his.
		And it's a drone photograph of a lake.
		But, oh, baby, when they take this drone up over the lake and look down on it, it's like you're looking at a lake circle, like a crop circle, except it's a lake circle.
		It's like a petrograph.
		You take a look.
		You let me know what you think it is, but it was caught by accident by somebody with a drone.
		As you know, the FCC is moving to make life not much fun for us, drone owners.
		There was a very interesting article on theanomalous.com.
		I usually do find one there.
		And this concerns a very long study done on the controversial status of precognition and other anomalous effects, simply known as PSI.
		I know precognition.
		Personally, I know it's real.
		And I would love to learn more about it.
		And I'm sure we'll find a guest on precognition, perhaps somebody in the scientific field who can tell us what they think is going on.
		I mean, there's no question about it.
		We're going to be talking to, I can't help myself, Cody Lodine in a few minutes.
		And this is probably worth a discussion with him.
		Whatever you want to call it, this precognition, it's an instinct, I think, in human beings.
		I'm not sure about that, but that is my best guess.
		It's like an instinct, you know, a feeling you have that something is right or wrong, a feeling that somebody is good or bad when you meet them instantly, that kind of thing, but extended.
		I've had one experience in my life of precognition, so I, you know, that's enough.
		I know it's real.
		Everybody else might not.
		I do.
		And they are studying it scientifically, and it certainly is worth finding out more about.
		Mystery and confusion surrounding the final moments of that Russian jetliner that went down.
		Now, they've been talking all day about the possibility of a missile or a bomb as at least a possibility.
		It could have been a failures, you know, at near 30,000 feet at cruise altitude or very unlikely.
		You know, airplanes just coming apart.
		Yes, the tail had been worked on.
		I know all about that.
		But still, unlikely.
		Could have been a bomb.
		And by the way, ISIS is claiming credit for the downing of that plane.
		Now, the experts, they trot out on CNN, seem to think that they couldn't get a missile that high, and maybe they couldn't.
		Somebody else points out, well, there's mountains.
		Well, it was well past the mountains.
unidentified		So we'll just have to wait and see, of course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		After a devastating loss in the 2012 presidential campaigns, the Republican Party entered a period of intense self-reflection.
		And they emerged, it says, with a firm promise to learn from its mistakes.
		The GOP vowed to avoid prolonged and vicious primaries.
		Well, that's history, right?
		I mean, we know what's going on.
		None of that happened.
		Jeb Bush is trying to hit the reset button.
		He's suffering badly in polls.
		And his new slogan, I don't know, it doesn't excite me.
		See, I sound like the Donald, right?
		It doesn't excite me.
		But his new slogan is Jeb Can Fix It.
		Well, really?
		I mean, everything?
		Or just it, whatever it is.
		That's his new slogan, campaign slogan, Jeb Can Fix It.
		And I don't know.
		I wasn't really particularly enamored of the slogan, Jeb Can Fix It.
		All right, Cody Lundine, rather, is an internationally recognized professional in the field of primitive living skills, modern wilderness survival, and urban Self-reliance training, urban, mind you, with 26 years of hands-on teaching experience.
		Due to his intimate understanding of the physics, psychology, physiology, of human survival, he is routinely featured as the consulting expert on real-world emergencies for national and international news outlets.
		He has trained private, corporate, and government agencies, thousands of students, dozens of national and international media sources in outdoor survival, primitive living skills, and urban preparedness.
		So those of you who thought that all the urban people would be out of luck tonight are wrong.
		He will be able to speak to that.
		Now, he'll be coming up in just a moment.
		I want to say one more thing.
		Ted Koppel, interestingly, was on CNN earlier today.
		And it was quite an unusual segment, I must say.
		It turns out that Ted Koppel has taken on the issue of the grid.
		He believes that our Internet infrastructure in America, which, you know, he pointed out was originally designed for scientists and professors to talk to each other and exchange ideas and now is in the hands of virtually everybody wasn't designed to be protected particularly.
		And he says that anybody, meaning nation states anyway, can bring down our grid completely.
		Just flat bring it down.
		Russia and China, he pointed out, not likely to do it because, well, we can do it too and maybe better.
		So the mutual assured destruction scenario of that between big nations is unlikely.
		However, we've got Korea, we've got the guys dressed in black in the Middle East, and they don't care about any of that.
		They want everything to come down.
		And he pointed out that if the grid went down for two years, and that's what he thought it would, two years, that in one year, one year of the grid being down, only one in ten in America would survive.
		And I know you're probably sitting out there and going, oh, come on.
		It's just eight.
		So one in ten without electricity couldn't survive?
		Well, it's probably accurate.
		I'm sure it's accurate.
		It may even be undersaid.
		It might be worse than that.
		And I have urged people for years, beginning probably 20 years ago, just as an experiment, go outside, find the big master switch near your power meter, and turn off the electricity for your house and try and live for a day, two days.
		See how that goes.
		It's an interesting experiment you all might probably not want to try, but if you do, you'll learn a lot.
		All right, coming up after the break, Cody Lundine.
		And I'm already getting tons of messages, so he's got a lot of fans out there on the internet.
		He did a show called Dual Survival.
		Maybe you saw it on the Discovery channel.
		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		Oh, you can dance.
		You can die.
		Heaven can fly on your mind.
		Oh, you see that girl.
		Watch that scene.
		Kick it fast and see.
		Turn it upside down.
		Love to hear percussion.
		Love to hear it.
		So are you just a pretty?
		So why will this keep moving to the Nisky Glickie?
		Take a walk on the wild side of midnight from the Kingdom of Nye.
		This is Midnight in the Desert with Art Bell.
		The Eaton Square Show at 1-952-225-5278.
		That's 1-952-Call Art.
		Well, I guess I'll let him get away with his stutter tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Happens every now and then.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, to the program, welcome Cody Lundine.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Art.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Thanks for having me on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's great to have you on.
		Let me start out by saying I am a gigantic fan of survival shows.
		I have watched every single episode, not of yours, but of Naked and Afraid.
		So then earlier today, I got some of your episodes and I binge-watched them.
		So I know something about it.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm ready.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, good.
		All right.
		So I'm going to ask you a couple questions that weren't even down here first.
		And one is, in order to get it out of the way, since I have such a paranormal-oriented audience, and you have spent so much time in every kind of wilderness human could spend time in, my audience would like to know if you've seen anything weird in the wild.
		And by that, they mean anything you just can't explain or anything that even was paranormal and, of course, Bigfoot.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		No, to be a disappointment to some of your fans.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		I have talked to several people that have seen some bizarre stuff, but never direct an experience for myself.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good answer.
		Thank you.
		Now it's out of the way.
		Someone else says, this is all coming from my computer, that you have a very interesting philosophy of Mother Earth.
unidentified		Hmm.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		So I wonder what they mean by that.
		Well, so basically, you know, I teach primitive living skills, modern survival and preparedness, as you mentioned.
		And, you know, I make my living off the planet.
		We all do.
		Not all of us are conscious of that.
		But so I do have, I think, a close association with the Earth, which I wish more of us did have, just because of what I do.
		I'm outside a lot.
		So I'm outside as much as I'm inside, whether that's my homestead or teaching courses or whatnot.
		So, what they mean by that, I don't really know what they're getting at, but yeah, I'm outside a lot.
		That's a special association.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You call yourself a hippie?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't.
		I think I missed that era.
		I like heavy metal music.
		I don't know any hippies that like that.
		And I have long hair.
		I've had long hair ever since I was a little kid, but I don't really call myself a hippie because I don't think that's quite my era.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know whether I heard it in the show or that they called you that or someone said, can a hippie and a military guy survive together?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It came up in the program somewhere.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Sure, yeah, they like to call me a hippie, and a lot of people do that.
		And I've referenced that before, but no, I'm hard to pin down.
		You know how it is, you know, judgments, and people look at you and they think one thing, and it might be another thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		You know, so I'm sure you experienced that in your career, and I get the same as well in mine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		When they ask about your view on Mother Earth, I think, you know, I think as the, and I wondered, it's the same thing as I watched your program.
		You know, you live out in it all the time, and I know that Native Americans have a sort of a view, you know, worldview about the Earth and what she is.
		And I wonder if part of that is in you.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		I think it's an interesting question.
		I think a lot of people would feel similar if they spent more time outside.
		And to even have you ask me that question kind of personifies what's going on, you know, in our modern world.
		A lot of us don't spend a lot of time outside.
		And I'm not saying you have to go out in the wilderness to get refreshed by Mother Nature, for lack of a better term, but just we have our head up, you know where.
		I mean, I heard you reference before we got on the air together, you know, the Ted Coppel thing.
unidentified		Yes.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		And, you know, this is, I know that a lot of your listeners, you know, I want to educate and I'd like Art Bell fans to stay alive.
		And we're hopelessly, you know, confined to technology as great as it is.
		And so that's the point here is we're so disassociated with the natural world and how things really work when they're unplugged that it's a fascination with anyone who does spend time outside.
		It's become the non-norm.
		You know, my grandparents homestead in South Dakota.
		They literally used the Homestead Act and took Indians land, you know, and had the sod home and the whole nine yards.
		And so they spent much of their day outdoors, you know, planting in the field, the garden, etc., and about 20% of time indoors.
		And today it's the exact opposite.
		So to really rack your head around that, if people spent more time outdoors and into something that was real and unplugged for a little bit, figuratively and otherwise, then if the grid did burp, it'd be a hell of a lot less scary for those.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, all right.
		I want you to understand, I like telling the truth.
		I'm one of those people that you're talking about.
		In fact, I may even personify it.
		I live out here in the middle of the Sirius desert, Cody.
		But I spend most of my time inside.
		I spend most of my time on computers.
		I spend most of my time with radio.
		So I am exactly one of those people.
		Bear that in mind.
		Even though I've got lots of 20-year food supply.
		I've got 20-year batteries and I've got solar panels and wind machines and all kinds of things.
		Battery backup.
		When power fails here, I don't even know it in my house.
		It just might blink.
		That would be about it.
		And all the rest of the neighbors are coming out going, hey, how come he's got power?
		So I've done a lot, but not because I'm an outdoor person or I necessarily anticipate a zombie apocalypse.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		What do you see when you look out your windows of your house?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it depends which window.
		But I see desert.
		I see lots of birds, lots of animals.
		The desert is populated a lot more than people think with life.
		It's kind of a strange life.
		We've got these giant black birds out here that look like they belong in a horror movie.
		What do you mean by what do I see?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's my point, is you are, you know, they're ravens, by the way.
		They're blackbirds that you see.
		And you are out there.
		Your job is on radio, and thank God it is, because you've been doing it for decades, and I'm super excited to talk to you tonight because you're like a rock star.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Kind of.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Kind of you.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's true.
		It's true.
		So what I'm getting at is when Art Bell looks out most at his windows, he sees nature.
		So I'm not saying you have to be out in it per se, but you are in it.
		At least the box you live in.
		Everyone lives in a box, so to speak.
		That's right.
		It's out in the bush.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Because you're talking to another desert in Arizona.
		So it's midnight in the desert for both of us.
		So I get that.
		But my point is that a lot of people are urban-based, and that's fine.
		But you're not because you're out in Nevada, and I've been in Nevada several times, and you have just as remote country as we have in Arizona.
		And for those that aren't in this belt, in the southwest, that's news, right?
		If you go to Connecticut or New Hampshire and whatever, it's not like it is in the Southwest.
		There's not that much wide open space, and it's different.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, it's so different, Cody, that I've had people come here from New York, and they are extremely uneasy.
		I mean, you can stand outside where I live on a clear day, and you can see 40, 60 miles.
		You can just see the mountains way, way far away.
		The view, and it is so unobstructed that it actually freaks people from the east out.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		I understand.
		You know, my clients are the same way.
		What also freaks people out is the isolation.
		Because when you're in bush, when you're in deep wilderness, or when you're living at a remote location, which I do All three of those, it forces you to pay attention to yourself.
		There's no distractions, and that's scary for a lot of people.
		So, if you talked about a Ted Coppel grid meltdown, the biggest enemies that we face really are between our own ears.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, let me ask you, imagine.
		Yes, do you go along with that?
		In other words, Koppel said studies have shown that after a year, only one out of ten would be left alive.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think common sense has shown that we don't know what in the hell we're doing anymore on this planet.
		I see that all the time in my courses.
		You know, so what I mean by that is we become disassociated with what it takes to live.
		We're an advanced, quote-unquote, civilization that doesn't know where to put the poop if the toilet doesn't work, that doesn't know how to feed ourselves, and that doesn't, you know, know where the water is coming short of out of the faucet and the wall.
		So if you took a whole civilization and realized that most of these people in this civilization don't know how to get basic human needs met, would you call that an advanced society or not?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, not in the sense that you mean it, of course.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		We're talking survival.
		You know, we're talking non-optional.
		We're talking, you know, food, water, some of regulation, stuff we'll talk about, you know, throughout the night.
		I'm not talking about accessory stuff.
		And what I'm saying is that most of civilization, especially in the U.S., doesn't know how to do those things.
		So we don't know how to take care of our basic needs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know what I've seen on the survival shows.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Uh-oh, here we go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, that's all there is.
		I'm trying to be honest with you here.
		You know, I'm not an expert in any one of these areas except, you know, watching.
		And it's fascinating.
		I must say it is fascinating.
		Talk to me a little bit about before you were on dual survival, you obviously grew up in a lifestyle that, I don't know, taught you survival, taught you how to do what you do.
		How did that come to be?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		I don't have a real sexy story.
		Like, I wish I was, say, I was raised by wolves, you know, or something, but it didn't turn out that way.
		I'm an only kid, and my dad was military.
		So we moved around a lot.
		And the only common thing that I had growing up was going outdoors, was being outside.
		And so I was outside quite a bit.
		And fast forward, through a lot of hellish stuff I put myself through as a youth in basic survival training, except not the type you'd wish on your kids.
		I pitched doing what I do to a bunch of summer camps here in Prescott, Arizona, and not one of them wrote me back.
		No one gave a damn, you know, about survival training or primitive skills or whatever.
		Keep in mind, this will be my 26th year in business this coming year.
		So this was back in a time where no one really cared about this sort of stuff.
		And that led to very, very slowly clawing my way to courses that people would enroll in, et cetera, through something called a flyer.
		It was on a piece of paper, and you could get pretty colors at the copy store.
		And I would put them on something called a phone booth.
		Do you probably remember those, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I remember them, yes.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		And on stores and windows and wherever I could put this colored piece of paper saying, hey, you know, this is my Aboriginal Living Skills School and I'm teaching skills.
		And that's literally how it started out, Art, because there was no Facebook, there was no cell phones, there was no YouTube, there was no way to project yourself as something you're not, you know, to be picked up by the next network as the flavor of the month survival show on TV.
		You had to work for your clients.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So there really was a time like that, huh?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		There was.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		And it was a much more starkly honest time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was.
		It was.
		I'm sort of convinced, Cody, this is one of my personal things, that as we get older, we get slowly more and more and more disgusted with everything that's going on, the music, the young people, everything that's going on, so that by the time we're finally ready to pass on, it's like, all right, get me out of here.
		I'm done.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Well, we hope you have many more decades here doing your show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Kind of you.
		But I really mean that.
		I mean, it just seems like a natural thing.
		Older people get a little bit grumpy.
		I know I can be a little grumpy.
		People write to me all the time and say, boy, you were grumpy last night.
		I didn't think so necessarily, but they thought it.
		So I guess I can be.
		And I know you can be.
		So as we get older, that happens.
		And what's going on around us seems kind of crazy, huh?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		It can be.
		You know, I know you're passionate about radio.
		You have to be, right?
		And I have the same passion for my profession.
		And along with that passion comes a very limited tolerance for BS, which I'm assuming you have as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		And I put up with a lot of it.
		I'm sure.
		Sometimes on this program, Cody, I know that I'm getting BS and I just let it go because it's very entertaining.
		Sometimes I can't stand it anymore.
		And I say to the guest, oh, come on.
		I've had it.
		This is complete BS.
unidentified		Anyway, yeah, it's happened.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's happened.
		So can we talk a little bit about?
		Even before we get into the TV shows, I want to say something.
		The sickest that I've ever been in my life, Cody, and I mean the sickest I've been in my life, there is just no relief from it, is seasickness.
		My dad had a big, frankly, yacht, big boat, sailboat, and he took me out, and I started to get sick, and there was no relief.
		I mean, no relief.
		You toss up all you have, and then you continue to want to toss up what's no longer even there.
		It's that bad.
		And I saw you get seasick.
		Not that badly, but I saw you on a raft in the middle of the Pacific, And you were looking pretty green.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Yeah, that doesn't really work for me.
		Yeah, I can get seasick pretty easy.
		So that's the only reason I wasn't a Navy SEAL.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a good reason not to be a SEAL.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Is your BS meter going off now, Adam?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not at all.
		Oh, no.
		Not at all.
		You were in the military or no?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Oh, God, no.
unidentified		No, huh?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		No.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Dad was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
		Yeah, my dad was, too.
		All right.
		Hold it right there.
		We'll be right back.
		This is that longer break I told you about.
		I'm Arpell.
		is Midnight in the Desert.
unidentified		When it's alright and it's coming on, we gotta get right back to where we started from.
		Love is good, love is strong, we gotta get right back to where we started from.
		Get in with me, show us a smile for people that you need.
		Midnight in the Desert doesn't scream calls.
		We trust you, but remember, the NSA.
		Well, you know.
		To call the show, please dial 1-952-225-5278.
		That's 1-952-CALLART.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My guest is Cody Lundine, and he's a very cool dude.
		And again, I'm going to go back for a second to what Ted Toppel said, and it was that if somebody brings down our grid, it'd be down for two years.
		And he said one out of ten people would be left alive in the United States.
		And we talked about it, but I'm not sure I got an exact answer.
		Do you think that would be accurate, Cody?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		What do we have?
		I think we have like 386 million people in the U.S. Isn't that about right?
		Somewhere around that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		About right, yeah.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		So my math sucks.
		So what is that?
		If Ted Koppel's right, how many people is that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We don't have to do the math.
		I mean, it's just not many people.
		One in 10 left alive.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		One in 10.
		I think that's, well, it depends.
		You know, again, you know, because I'm used to these, hey, Cody, you know, and they want this pat answer, you know, as if I'm McDonald's or something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, then, or just take it this way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would the majority of the Americans be dead before a Euro went by without power?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Probably, because of the way things are now.
		You know, if you'd have asked this question like 50 years ago, you know, it would have been a different answer.
		100%.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're right about that.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		And that's kind of what I'm getting at with the lack of nature, etc.
		And, you know, there's a lot of people coming back to simplicity.
		You can imagine the kind of emails.
		I can imagine some of the emails you get.
		You can imagine some of the emails I get.
		And there's a lot of good things going on and a lot of terrifying things, of course.
		But with people starting to do more with less, gardening is huge.
		Non-hybrid seeds is going to the roof.
		There's a lot of good things regarding self-reliance and people are being inspired to do more with less.
		And I'm hoping that's more of a I want to do this rather than we're scared of zombies do this.
		Because when people do self-reliance and preparedness based on fear, that's a temporary solution and that never lasts.
		When they do it because they want simplicity and freedom in their life, then that's a lasting process that I can support.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I start to have organ failure when my internet's down.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		We need to work on you, Ark.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		You need to come on a course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The course would be survival for me, Cody.
		We should do a show on that.
		So anyway, you don't much like the term untold survivalist.
		How come?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		The term survivalist has a negative connotation.
		Why?
		Why?
		Eric Fry, the cop killer, is a survivalist.
		We have people blowing up federal buildings.
		They're survivalists.
		So you tell me, Art, how can a word describe someone who blows up a federal building and someone who teaches people how to survive an outdoor survival experience gone bad?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You need to rethink it.
		Now, you need to rethink it.
		Survivalist is not a bad word.
		As you portrayed it, you're talking about criminals.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		I'm talking about the word survivalist.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		That's what we're talking about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, look, even if they were survivalists.
		Yeah, but they didn't ruin the term survivalist.
		It's still a fascinating thing to be and to be able to do.
		I don't feel like they ruined it.
		Yeah, go ahead.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		If you're a survivalist, tell me what you do.
		What do you do?
		You're a survivalist.
		What does that mean?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, in your case, it means you have a profession on TV if you want it.
		Or you write books.
		Or you teach classes.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		On what, though?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		On what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Survival.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		What does that mean?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Survival.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It means how you get your internet back up.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		You got me there.
		Okay, so here's my next point.
		Because eventually we're going to talk a dirty word, and I know it'll seem like profanity to a lot of people, but it's not.
		It's called credibility and integrity.
		And those things have gone by the wayside.
		So if someone's a survivalist, quote unquote, and just let me finish, if someone's a survivalist, then I would ask them, oh, really?
		What do you teach?
		You know, because saying survivalist is kind of like saying tree in the forest.
		Well, is it a softwood?
		Is it a hardwood?
		Is it spring, summer, autumn?
		Is it a good bow wood?
		Can you make fire with it?
		It doesn't mean anything.
		And that's my point, is the word survivalist is used by networks because you don't have to vet it.
		Because it doesn't really have a meaning.
		It's unvetable, which makes it nice when you hire phony people on TV to portray a survival expert, so to speak, according to them.
		So if someone asks me, one, I don't like the term, and I'm telling you why I don't like the term, but they'll ask me, what do you do?
		And I'll say, what do you want?
		Do you want urban preparedness?
		Do you want modern outdoor survival skills?
		Do you want primitive living skills?
		Do you want homesteading?
		We're not all in the same bandwidth.
		There's different stations on the radio.
		It's all the radio, but we could be listening to heavy metal or Art Bell, and I want Art Bell tonight.
		It's all the same radio, but they're different stations on the radio, and you'll get a very different experience listening to heavy metal than Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you're really going to hate my bumper music tonight.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		I liked your music, and I dig that guy with a deep voice.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Is that you or is that your mother?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no.
		I have a fairly deep voice, but he puts me to shame.
		That's Ross Mitchell up in Reno, very good friend of mine.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Wow, he's great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, oh, yeah.
		Absolutely great.
		So I don't know.
		I exactly was not, or I guess I was a little unhappy with your being that unhappy with the word survivalist, because, yeah, some of the guys who did bad stuff called themselves survivalists, but that truly doesn't ruin the word.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		I mean, the media.
		The media called them survivalists, and that's my point again.
		We're dealing with people's lives, Art.
		I take that seriously.
		Survival instruction deals with whether people live or die based on the advice given.
		There's a time for accuracy, and this profession is it.
		And when you have a term that not only deals with acts of domestic terrorism, that can also supposedly define a community college instructor who teaches outdoor survival skills, that's not accurate.
		And it further muddies the water, like a lot of survival shows out there, which ends up killing people.
		And we'll talk about your fascination with survival TV.
		And, you know, you thought I was probably your buddy, but I'm going to be breaking your heart.
unidentified		Well, it's okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, it's all right.
		My heart can't stand to be broken about this.
		Look, originally I thought survival meant, you know, like survivor on TV and who gets voted off next.
		I mean, that was it for me until I ran into Naked and Afraid.
		And oh, by the way, somebody asked on the computer, are you wearing shoes now?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Of course not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you never do, right?
		You actually didn't have to do this on the show, but you chose, well, you choose in life, not just on the show, but in life, not to wear shoes.
		Why?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's a multi-pronged answer.
		One, I don't like being anyone's you-know-what.
		You can take a very highly trained Special Forces operator and take off their boots, and they're worthless.
		So if I can take a $100 piece of gear and rip through a million dollars worth of training from the U.S. government, there's something wrong.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, can I ask a quick question?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You had a partner who was like a special forces special guy or something, and he one time did take off his shoes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And was he next to worthless?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, of course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sorry, I had to ask.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		I mean, so a lot of Native people, if you travel all over the world, like I have, and you go to some more remote locations, you'll see that going barefoot is kind of normal.
		It's only interesting and weird in our culture, you know, and in most modern cultures.
		But if you get off the beaten trail, a lot of people are going barefoot.
		I also am fascinated with, of course, doing more with less.
		That's my passion.
		And if I don't need to wear shoes, why would I?
		I do have sandals that I wear, and I have flip-flops in my Jeep because it's not worth being celibate.
		I want to be able to take my sweetheart out to dinner at a restaurant.
		And so they can frown on that unless I know the owner, and sometimes I do.
		I like tough feet because it's a huge survival asset.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, let me stop you right there and say, for the average tenderfoot person like myself, if I decided I wanted to toughen up, make my feet tough, and at my age I don't, but if I did, if I did, I could go tromping around the desert and we have lots of stuff out here that will turn your feet into shredded stumps of what they were.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How long would it take to get tough?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Well, to get tough.
		Now, I'm like your trainer.
		I'm Lark Bell's trainer.
		Well, you hit the nail on the head.
		You know, hanging out in Nevada in the desert is different than walking in the lawn in Connecticut.
		So you don't go to get the Ph.D. until you've gone to grade school.
		So I'm not advocating people go barefoot.
		I could care less whether people wear shoes or not.
		I don't care.
		This is just what I do.
		And I don't even think about it anymore, just like you don't think about wearing pants.
		I'm assuming you're wearing pants now.
		I am.
		Right.
		It's very personal question, but you know.
		Are you wearing, why do you wear pants?
		Well, you know, so that's how I feel about the shoe thing.
		But if you wanted to train, you'd do it easy.
		You know, you'd start on, you know, your kitchen floor or whatever, and then go out into a lawn.
		The beauty about Arizona and Nevada, you know, is it's hardcore.
		I mean, if you can go barefoot in Arizona, I've walked over some nasty stuff.
		And what fascinates me, even to this day, is I've gone barefoot all over the world, quite literally.
		And it's doable, you know, because people do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But again, my question is, for me, if I started out and I wanted to get to the point from where I am now, which is zero, to tough feet, we'll call it 10, how long out there walking in the desert?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Well, again, we're starting slow.
		I mean, callus tissue.
		I don't have the, you know, I don't know how quick calluses grow.
		Let's say that you could feel definite results within just a few weeks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And the amount of pain involved in those definite results would be on a scale of one to ten.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		The pain never ends.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		You know, when you go barefoot in Arizona, you deal with pain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Okay.
		Well, I think probably anywhere.
		I mean, you go into the jungles and you're barefoot.
		There are other dangers.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		There are, and there are dangers.
		And I don't walk like other people walk.
		When you walk barefoot for as many years as I have, you literally walk different.
		You drop down with the ball of the foot.
		You don't.
		Most people strike with the heel.
		And that's been, there's a book called Born to Run out there, which has started this barefoot running craze, you know, at the Tarmahara Indians in northern Mexico.
		And a lot of people strike with the heel first, and then with the ball of the foot.
		That's very jarring, you know, to the human physiology.
		It's jarring to the skeleton.
		I don't walk that way.
		So I've literally, walking barefoot has changed the way I walk biomechanically.
		And also it's changed my awareness level.
		I look where I step because I am barefoot and so I pay attention to where I'm walking.
		And my fascination also is I love to read survival stories.
		And there's a lot of POW stories out there as you can imagine.
		And one of the first things they did is they took their boots because they knew they couldn't run.
		And I was like, I don't want to be that guy.
		You know, I don't want to be that dependent on that small piece of gear, as valuable as it is.
		I love footwear.
		It definitely has a place.
		I'm not anti-shoe.
		I'm not anti-boot.
		I'm not like waving a flag, everyone go barefoot and hug a tree.
		I'm not.
		I just like to do more with less, and I'm fascinated about what I can get away with on this planet without being a slave.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, how much of an issue was that in the show itself?
		In other words, you had partners who did use footwear, and they sort of accused you of being too slow.
		But, of course, when you have bare feet, you pay attention to where you're putting that barefoot, so you move a little slower, I take it, right?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Well, what's the rush?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		You know, I mean, unless you're running from something, which we're not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, come on, it's TV.
		It's TV.
		I've done TV.
		It's nothing but a rush.
		That's all they do in TV and movies is rush.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		You are right.
		And most TV, all TV is produced, and we can talk about that later.
		So as far as me not getting somewhere fast enough, you know, where we were going?
		You know, what was the rush to do that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think their only complaint was it was TV, you know.
		And so on the other hand, I have so much respect for you that you did that, that you went barefoot.
		And so let's jump ahead just a little bit because I can't stand not talking about it.
		I do watch Naked and Afraid, and it does seem to me, Cody, that my God, being dumped off in a jungle or in Africa or Nicaragua or whatever the destination is, absolutely naked, particularly in a jungle, my God, is really, really terrifying.
		And even if you don't consider all the possible dangers and things that can happen to your skin, which are many, the bugs generally eat you to death.
		Yeah?
		So how much of a test is it to be completely naked, not just bare feet, but bare air van?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's a produced show.
		Granted, there's people naked out there, and we can go as far down this rabbit hole as you want.
		But really, when all good ideas have left and there's nothing more constructive to bring to the table, have them take their clothes off.
		And that's essentially what's happened.
		I have an idea for a new survival show that I'll share with you.
		It's just you and me, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you're really serious, I wouldn't do it on the air.
unidentified		Someone absolutely is going to steal it.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Well, I'm going to just play with that thought.
		This is for discovering all the networks out there.
		You take a man, you take a woman, you take their clothes off, you put them in the wilderness, and you film them having, doing you know what.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I see, doing it, yeah.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I think it's a unique idea, pretty original, and it's a hell of a lot better than just watching them try to make fire with sticks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, but look, I will say this in their defense.
		The nakedness seems to be an issue for maybe the first day.
		And then when they figure out they don't have water, they don't have food, and they don't have shelter, somehow it slips to second and third and fourth and then forgotten finally when they're starving.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Let's talk about Naked and Afraid Butte, Montana in January.
		They're dead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they're dead, yeah.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		So those shows and the show Survivor, there's a reason they're always filmed in temperate regions because the biggest causes of death are lack of thermoregulation, either hypothermia, the body core temperature drops below 98.6 degrees Fahrenheit, 37 degrees Celsius, or hyperthermia when it climbs up.
		So when you take away the two biggest causes of death and outdoor survival, you can just have all the time you want sitting under the coconut tree arguing and bickering and trying to catch the rat with your hair or whatever.
		Do you see what I'm getting at?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do, but I mean, it's still tough.
		I mean, they are starting.
		A lot of them never do catch anything worth any protein at all in 21 days.
		And, you know, 35 pounds, gone, boom.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		What are we learning by this?
		Because any one of us could take a bunch of people with no experience and throw them out in the woods and film it.
		They used to do that in ancient Rome.
		It was called the gladiator days.
		Just let's throw a bunch of tigers and throw a dude out there and see what happens.
		What are we learning from that, Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, now wait a minute.
		On a naked and afraid, they do go in with some, sorry for the word, survival training of some sort.
		You know, he was in the military, one guy in the military, special forces.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		We can talk about that later, too, about being in the military.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And usually the girl was in at least the Girl Scouts, you know.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		So most of the people on TV on these shows have no experience in survival skills.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		And I've dealt with several of them in more ways than one, including those on Naked and Afraid.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		So I actually, I had a woman call me from Atlanta, Georgia, and she had a very thick accent because she was from Atlanta, Georgia.
		And she was going to be on Naked and Afraid and wanted to do that.
		And this producer told her that she might want to brush up on her survival skills.
		Brush up.
		Right.
		And I enjoyed this conversation so much.
		Usually I have an employee that takes my calls because I can get some weird calls.
		But I took this one myself.
		And I asked this woman, okay, so what is your experience, ma'am?
		Because she was coming to me.
		She wanted some training to do this TV show called Naked and Afraid.
		And I asked her three times, what is your outdoor survival skills experience, ma'am?
		And she finally said, well, I do nature hikes.
		In other words, none.
		So the producers were, the keyword here is brush up.
		Brush up means go learn it from scratch because you don't know anything about outdoor survival.
		So when you take someone and strip their clothes off, which helps with summer regulation, it's key to survival, and you put them in a wilderness environment and expect them to live off the land with minimal gear, you're going to the epic PhD of survival training.
		I don't even know if I'm there yet.
		And when you take novices and put them out there and you have them sign a legal waiver that says they can't sue Discovery Channel if something inept goes on and you deal with the production company that has no survival skills experience and a network that has no survival skills experience, then there's going to be some issues.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Team and the network.
		Okay, well, a lot to talk about there.
		I wonder how she made out.
		I wonder which episode that was.
		Well, all right, we're going to take a break here.
		Cody Lundine is my guest.
		He was on Dual Survival on the Discovery Channel.
		I'm sure many of you have seen it.
		I know you have because obviously many fans are listening.
		From the high desert, a great American Southwest, midnight in the desert, raging in the night.
unidentified		Get out before the magic got away.
		I'm the Lord of the night.
		I'm waiting in the shadows.
		I'm just too at night.
		Till the morning's light.
		It's not radio, but it is what's next.
		To cast your ray of light into the darkness, please call 1-952-CAL ART.
		That's 1-952-225-5278.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, that represents our beginnings.
		It is somewhat radio now, and proudly so.
		Bro there, KABC in Los Angeles, right?
		And so many more.
		So, Cody Lundine is here tonight, and he's obviously a really, very cool guy to interview.
		And we were talking for a minute, anyway, about this series, Naked and Afraid, not his series.
		Both are very controversial in a lot of ways, actually, Naked and Afraid and dual survival, which was his, and we'll get to all that.
		But with respect to Naked and Afraid, I can't help but ask, and everybody wants me to ask, what do you think is fake and what do you think is real?
		I'll give you an example, and you can knock it down.
		They've been starving for 20 days, I believe, and tomorrow is extraction day.
		But they're sitting there starved half to death on the ground.
		And suddenly a deadfall goes off, and they get lucky, and a rabbit just made it, you know, some bird or whatever, just made it in and tripped the deadfall.
		And they get the protein they need on day 20 to make it out alive.
		Now, they wouldn't go that far, would they, as to put a bird in a trap?
unidentified		Of course they would.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		All TV is produced.
		That's why you have television producers.
		Right?
		So if you could film something verbatim and actually film something completely accurate in the field or the city or wherever, and then you'd still have this thing called an edit bay with an editor that's going to go take that footage and tweak it to whatever the network wants.
		The network has something called a big fat wallet that pays everyone, and they're dictating what goes on behind the scenes.
		They're the ultimate authority or no one gets paid.
		Wow.
		I don't care what survival show you watch.
		All television shows are produced.
		And some things are done for real and some things are not.
		I mean, on dual survival, when it rained, we didn't predict that.
		You know, it's not like we caused it to rain or caused some certain things to happen.
		But I have real low tolerance.
		I don't watch TV.
		I've never even seen my show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Why would I watch someone else's show?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I don't listen to my own shows either.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		I don't.
		So, you know, I've worked in TV a long time, you know, since the mid-90s.
		I had one of the first survival shows on Discovery in 2003, pre-Lesdroud, pre-Edward, you know, etc.
		So I've been behind the camera, in front of the camera.
		I've produced, I've written, I've directed.
		You know, so I know all sides of this lens.
		And one of the reasons I chose to do dual survival was one, it seemed less BS.
		And keep in mind, I got the job in 2009.
		And we started filming in January of 2010.
		A lot has changed since then.
		And I assumed Discovery had credibility.
		At one point, they did.
		Now they're claimed to fame as having some idiot in black spandex try to shove his face down a snake's mouth.
		So they've degenerated into that.
		But Dual Survival at the time was kind of one of the earlier survival shows.
		I took the show because I was getting paid, because I'm a professional.
		I get paid for my work.
		I took the show because I could travel the world and I could learn and teach survival skills.
		It was an awesome opportunity to do that.
		I took the show to directly counter some of the nonsense that was out there on other survival shows because I was tired of having my students come to my courses and ask me, well, can't you drink your pea?
		Or whatever it is.
		And there's a lot of survival shows.
		Here's what you need to remember, Art, about this.
		When you watch television, you're in the low alpha waves.
		That's what TV induces, low alpha.
		And that means a relaxed state and suggestibility.
		So that's why commercials sodden people up, right?
		That's why you buy the Clorox or whatever.
		So TV is all about images.
		The reason I put the crazy cartoons I have in both of my books is because I know when people are really scared, when that sympathetic nervous system kicks in and the epinephrine dumps in the body and all complex and fine motor skills go to hell, that they're not going to remember what I have written.
		They're going to remember my illustrations in my books.
		So when you watch television shows, when you watch survival TV shows by a network with no survival experience, by a production company with no survival experience, by most hosts with no survival experience, and you're in that alpha state and you're susceptible to the training, to the imagery, you're being fed BS.
		And the problem with that is when people are in crisis situations, if they're ever in a real survival situation, what comes to the forefront of their memories are those images they've seen in that suggestible state on TV.
		What I'm getting at is death.
		Okay?
		It's not a joke.
		My profession helps with keeping people alive.
		And I take it very, very seriously.
		And when I see networks making a mockery out of my profession, like imagine if they did that with radio, you'd be pissed off.
		I'm pissed off about it because once I have to pick up the pieces with my clients and two, some of the survival programming has killed real people that have thought what they were watching on television was real.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have people died on reality TV survival shows?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		They had that helicopter that went down.
		Well, three people died on a Discovery Channel show with my ex-co-host.
		You know, three people were killed in L.A. And then I think nine people were killed.
		I think it was in France on a TV survival show they had there.
		And just wait, there's more coming.
		That's why Discovery has in their contract you can't see them if something goes wrong.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if I were Discovery, I'd have that in the contract, too.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		I understand that.
		But, you know, we're dealing with risk here.
		We're dealing with gross negligence is what we're dealing with.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Let's come back to that.
		I want to close the chapter on the lady who came to you that we were talking about.
		What did you do with her?
		Did you teach her, help her at all to prepare for Naked and Afraid?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		I said, you know, call me back.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		She said she was going to talk to the producer, and of course I never heard from her again, which is typical.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And why would that be?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, you would think that the show would want her to develop some skills.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		You'd think that, wouldn't you, Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You would, yes.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		And that's what I told her.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you think she talked to the producer and the producer said, ah, you didn't want to do that or what?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		I have no idea.
		I told her that she should know the bioregion she's going to because jungle survival is different from desert survival, which is different from cold weather survival, etc.
		And she said, oh, yeah, yeah, that makes sense, Cody.
		And hell yes, it makes sense.
		But that's not what they're after about making sense.
		Why have competent people when you can get incompetent people that cause more drama?
		Because that's good for ratings.
		This isn't about education.
		This is about exploitation.
		And I've got a problem with that because it deals with people's lives.
		Imagine if we had a bunch of shows about doctors, and that was the big crazy shows about doctors, except they weren't really doctors on the TV show, and they were teaching your family how to do surgery.
		You walk in the garage and see your son cutting open your daughter or whatever.
		Do you think the AMA would have a problem with that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Probably.
unidentified		God.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Listen, you mentioned exploitation, right?
		To be fair, it is exploitation on both sides.
		In other words, maybe you've got some lady who wants her face on TV.
		Maybe you've got some lady who just wants to do it for the adventure.
		Plus, she's probably getting paid pretty decently.
		I have no idea how well they're paid, but probably money could be an issue.
		So for you, for example, I mean, Cody, when you were on the TV show, even though I understand the ethical bar was higher, you were exploiting them for travel, for whatever fun you had, and certainly for money.
		So it was a joint exploitation in a way, right?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't agree with that at all.
		I was an employee.
		I was doing my job, but I was hired to do.
		Are you exploiting your producer because she produces for you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In the strictest sense, I guess, yeah.
		I mean, we pay her well.
		But so life is a sort of an exploit of sorts, of people of people.
		And you can still be ethical and still realize and call it exploitation.
		It is a little bit.
		I mean, would you have done it for no money?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		No.
		I make my living teaching survival skills.
		I expect to be paid for my work, like most professionals do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There you go.
		All right.
		Well, you know, it depends, I guess, on your definition of exploitation.
		You're talking about much more serious stuff in the way they do.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		I'm talking about my profession deals with whether people live or die.
		So it's pretty serious.
		So when you take a profession, like the medical profession, and you exploit it with phony drama and out-of-context, phony reality television that causes people to die who believe that, that's wrong.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, where would you put what you did on TV, on dual survival?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would you put it in that realm, or is it bars and bars above that?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		I am a professional survival instructor, and so I went on an outdoor survival skills show as an instructor to teach people.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		And I did the best of that, to my ability, and I tried to keep it as clean as possible, even though there was a daily battle with producers that wanted to do other stuff, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Drama.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They want drama.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And I understand that.
		It's not like I just fell out of the cabbage truck.
		I understand that television's television, but there's a line in the sand, and I have a very, very strong line In the sand, my first allegiance is to your listeners.
		My first allegiance is to my students.
		And if you have a survival instructor who's lying, who's fraudulent, who is causing unnecessary risk, there's a problem there.
		Because a real survival instructor deals with mitigating risk, not creating risk.
		And so even though I was pushed into certain things on dual survival that it was like, ah, how are we going to do this if I don't with the storyline, I really, really tried.
		They didn't like me very much because what they want is a person they can tell what to do and they'll do it.
		Because people had a hard time with me on the show because of I would not budge with integrity and I would not budge with safety.
		And I always will be a pain in the butt about those two things.
unidentified		I hear you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I certainly have ethical standards too for what I do here on the air.
		Okay, so when they did this, what you call defamation episode, and I saw it, by the way, and they depicted you, your partner at that time, was trying to trap a snake's head with a forked stick, and you really got a kick out of it.
		I mean, you were laughing.
		You probably laughed until your ribs hurt.
		I've done that a few times.
		It's really cool.
		I don't know.
		It's just something that gets you.
		What happened?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		It was absurd is what happened.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I'm from, you're a Nevada guy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		I'm an Arizona guy.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		So we have 13 different species of rattlesnakes in Arizona.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		We have the most species of rattlesnakes of any place in North America.
		We have the Massasagra, we have the Mojave rattlesnake, we have the prairie rattlesnake, we have the sidebiter rattlesnake, we have the speckled rattlesnake, we have the twin-spotted rattlesnake, we have the tiger rattlesnake, we have the ring-nosed rattlesnake, we have the western diamond-backed rattlesnake, we have the black-tailed rattlesnake, we have the Arizona black rattlesnake, the western rattlesnake, and the rock rattlesnake.
		So when I see someone who's incredibly inept at handling a snake, I thought it was funny.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really funny.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Really funny.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It went on for a while.
		So we're sort of jumping ahead.
		This is the episode, folks, where Cody was going off the program, and that's a story in itself.
		And they made a program that kind of made him look bad.
		And he calls it the defamation episode.
		You know, you're going to get, Cody's then going to probably go on to another series somewhere or not.
		And then somebody else is going to come along and replace him.
		And so you have to make the outgoing look bad and the incoming look good, right?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and the reason it was literally defamation.
		You know, and if you, I've never seen the episode, of course, but I've had people explain it to me, you know, and we can talk about the context if you want to.
		But I had an attorney send discovery a cease and desist for defamation.
		I knew what they were going to do.
		They knew what they were going to do.
		They ignored my cease and desist.
		And so as far as I'm concerned, that was all done with malice because they knew exactly what they were doing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, you said it yourself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You can go into an edit room and you can make anybody look however you want them to look.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Right, and that's the real danger.
		And that was dangerous.
		Even when I did everything that I knew I should do on that show as a professional in my field, God helped me when the editors in New York City got done with it, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		None of these people had any outdoor survival skills experience.
		But the reason that episode came about is Discovery asked me three times to lie to my fan base when they fired me, and I was fired.
		I did not quit.
		I was fired.
		That's a whole story in itself.
		They finally realized, I think a few weeks later, and called my entertainment attorney and said, they finally realized, well, how in the hell are we going to explain that Cody's gone?
		This just dawned on them a few weeks later.
		And they asked my entertainment attorney, would Cody like to do another episode?
		And he can say that he quit so he can pursue his Aboriginal living skills school.
		And my first answer was something I can't say on the air because of your number one rule.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		And then they called again and they asked again, is Cody sure he doesn't want to essentially lie to his fan base?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did that thing what you said end in you?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Pardon me?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did that thing you say end in you?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		No, yourself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		And the little word rhymes like copypuck?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got it.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		And then they called a third time and asked me to lie to millions of people to cover their you-know-what.
		And of course, they were going to pay me thousands of dollars to do it.
		And so you have a network that has zero, zero thoughts about having me lie to my fan base.
		And I want nothing of that.
		And so that's how that episode came about because they had to explain how Cody went away.
		I wasn't willing to lie for them.
		And that's how I got treated.
		It's really sad.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it is.
		It is.
		I've been through some episodic things with networks myself.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		You've never been screwed by a big corporation, have you, Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, Cody.
		You didn't do any research on me at all, did you?
		Listen, let's get a kick out of it like a snake.
		So let's return to this.
		What would you consider to be the most challenging location to go into with minimal anything?
		In other words, the most challenging, I guess you've been to them all, been all over the world.
		What was the hardest?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		The hardest situation to go to, the hardest environment to go to is the one that lacks the most resources.
		And you and I both know which area that is.
		And I understand about the ravens and the gambles quail and all the stuff you have crawling around Nevada.
		But water's life.
		Ahoes la vida.
		So when you take away water from the equation, you take away the flora and you take away the fauna.
		And people survive on something called resources.
		So any place on the planet that lacks resources Is ultimately the hardest place to survive in for the gringo like me or for native peoples.
		So usually that points to deserts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No problem here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We have Walmart.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		You're good to go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you think the desert?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		Well, then there's the ocean, too, just because we don't breathe water.
		The ocean is totally rich in resources, but it's the problem where we're not water-based people.
		We live on land.
		So deserts is number one.
		It's a resource game.
		It's resources.
		So if you look, again, it depends on where you are on the planet and what season it is.
		If there's a seasonality whatsoever, the acorns are on or they're not.
		And there's no free lunch, pardon the pun.
		And it's very, very, I mean, the more I know about survival skills, primitive skills to define this, so we're not calling a tree a tree, the more I realize I just, I don't feel like I know what in the hell I'm doing.
		You know, there's so much to know and learn.
		I'm just amazed at all of our ancestors and how, I mean, it's amazing we're here.
		You know, when you go over to Africa and you're out in the bush and you think just a couple hundred years ago there's people walking around with sharp sticks, it's like, how in the hell did anyone survive out there?
		Everything wants to eat you.
		You know, there's danger at every turn.
		And a lot of it was the same here in North America.
		You know, with the grizzly bear and whatever, I have a profound respect for Native peoples.
		They're my heroes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, Africa is scary.
		Africa is scary.
		I was in Africa, and I remember getting in between a mama and her baby elephant.
		Oh, man, let me tell you how fast elephants can move when they want to.
		It was scary.
		Our instructor or guide just told everybody, run in different directions.
		Everybody is on their own.
		Good luck.
		Get behind a tree.
		That was it.
		And we all ran.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		It was a mama and a baby?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, she charged.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I thought it was scary.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		I've never been around a horny elephant, one in must?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Don't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, that was enough for me, trust me.
		I ran.
		I got behind a tree.
		I got lucky.
		None of us got killed.
		So anyway, there's some rough spots on Earth, but you would say deserts as a rule or the ocean.
		And in both cases, Cody, the one first thing you've got to have is water, right?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, the one first thing we've got to have is oxygen.
		That's why I put the ocean up there, right?
		Because drowning sucks.
		But then, yeah, well, it depends on the situation, Art.
		And here's where I'm really excited to be on your show because one of my great desert survival instructors, my desert survival instructor is a guy named Dave Gansy.
		And Dave Gansy was over with the first Bush War and was actually, you know, Richard Marcinko from Red Cell, SEAL Team 6, took his desert survival course.
		Dave Gansi is a real gentleman.
		He's in his mid-70s now.
		He's like my dad, you know, my desert dad.
		And he's an amazing guy.
		And when I used to ask him questions, I went to the library, saw him in the paper.
		This was like in the early 90s.
		And I latched onto him at the public library.
		He thought I was some homeless guy.
		And I was like, you've got to teach me what you know in the desert.
		And he did.
		And he had this term variables.
		He would always use this word variables.
		And he used to drive me crazy.
		I was like, Dave, just give me the damn answer.
		I don't want to hear your variables.
		And now I understand what he means.
		So when you ask me a question, water is the most important thing, right, Cody?
		Well, Art, it depends on the context you need.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I didn't say most important.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I said first.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		First, okay.
		You're out with a t-shirt and shorts.
		They're wet, and it's snowing, and you're up in the mountains in Nevada.
		Is water a priority?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		All right.
		The variables.
		You're going to get me with the variables.
		You're right, of course.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		I am.
		And that's what's important about my profession, and that's what's so lacking on television.
		They don't give a damn about the variables, and they don't understand the variables.
		And it's hurting people.
		It's a disservice to people.
		And I'm hoping to clear some of that up on your show.
		So you have to be very deliberate.
		Is it an FM or AM?
		Is it a rock station or easy listening?
		Is it talk news?
		Is it Fox News?
		Is it CNN?
		You know, what is it?
		We know it's radio, but what in the hell is the intention of the station?
		That's important.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
		It is, although I'm perfectly happy to be played on a music station.
		So you sound really bitter about your reality TV experience and about reality TV in general, beyond even where I thought you might be.
		You're very bitter.
		And I've experienced that as well, Cody, with another corporation, and I'm going to go into that.
		But I get it.
		I get it.
		But you're really still in a pretty bitter stage, huh?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		I'm in a passionate stage.
		You know, I can't say that I've moved on completely because when you're defamed internationally, when they keep running the same episode and it never ends, yeah, that sucks.
		But what I'm trying to do, anyone who's been my student knows how I teach, and I'm very passionate about how I teach, and I don't mince words because I'm dealing with people's safety.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I can hear that.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		So yeah, I'm on your show, and you're asking me questions, and I'm answering them with passion.
		And yeah, I'm pissed off at that network that purposely defamed me.
		When that network has hired so many people who are phony instructors, when they get a real one, they treated them real bad.
		And I don't have a lot of tolerance, but I think that's unprofessional and tacky.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you must have, for the most part, considering what they need for a TV production and what you're trying to give the people and do on the show, you must have found a way to sort of live with that divide in thinking.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, season one was awesome, and then season two, I found out about Dave Canterbury's fraud to be on the show, and it really went downhill from there.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		That was the start of the troubles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, do explain, Dave, wasn't it something about his, was it his military record or something?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it was his military record and it was his survival skills experience record or lack thereof.
unidentified		Oh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Well, you would have been the one to experience the second category, to be sure, his lack of experience in survival.
		And was that really apparent to you?
		Did you have to cover up?
unidentified		Of course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you have to cover up?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		You know, build survival is flawed in the get-go because being in the military doesn't make you an outdoor survival expert.
		You know, being in the military means you're in the military.
		So being a plumber doesn't make you a good electrician.
		They're two separate professions.
		So the context, which I think is important, you have the intention.
		You have the context of something, which defines the content of something.
		And this is what I go through with every custom course.
		So I have a client that says, I want to learn survival skills.
		Well, that's like saying Turi to me.
		So what do you mean?
		And we go down the rabbit hole.
		So the show was flawed from the get-go because if you had a show called Dual Military and one person had no military experience, how can you have a fair compare and contrast?
		And that's what it's supposed to be about.
		So I knew Dave didn't have a lot of experience.
		Dave's experience was he spent a year and a half making home movies in his backyard.
		And at that time, I had 20 years of experience with my school teaching real people in a real wilderness and were being compared as equals in an edit room in New York City.
		Is that fair?
		No.
		Did I eat a lot of crow?
		Yes.
		Was I willing to do that?
		Yes.
		Why?
		Because I can control myself.
		And I knew that I could teach, instead of 12 clients at a time, millions of people, I could teach, no, don't drink your pea, don't do this, do it this way.
		And it made a real difference.
		And I'm really, really happy I did the show because of the feedback I've gotten from fans, especially kids.
		One of my biggest fan bases, Art.
		I know you mentioned kids before we were on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have young people that listen to this show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I had the most fan mail I had was from five to nine-year-old little girls who watched the show.
		And they were so turned on, and they told me how they catch frogs, too, and they go barefoot, and they go hiking with their dad.
		And I had families call me up that would go camping for the first time because they watched the show.
		We had grandmothers watching the show with their grandkids.
		It was supposed to be a demographic of like 18 to 35-year-olds, male, of course.
		That's that demographic discovery was shooting for.
		But it was so much more than that.
		And so there's a lot of crappy things that happened to me for sure, but it did a lot of good.
		And I'm glad I was on the show, at least until the drama started.
		And I had a blast on season one.
		It was my dream job art that turned into a nightmare.
		You know, but that was just a pure lack of leadership and a lack of integrity, which can destroy anything.
		And you know that.
		You've been around the block experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it true, trying to lighten the moment for a second, that you're the only person in Arizona with licensed catfish actually with your hands?
unidentified		I believe so, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No kidding.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A license.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		It is illegal.
		Yeah.
		I think they call it literally a license.
		It was a scientific collection permit because I am talking from you.
		I'm talking to you now from my office at Yahoo College where I've taught survival skills for 21 years.
		And they treat me really well, and so I continue to teach for them.
		And yeah, so on these courses with the schools, I have a permit to catch fish with my hands.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Excellent.
		I love a frank interview, and we sure are getting that.
		My guest is Cody Lundine.
		he was uh...
		for i think four seasons on dual survival on the discovery channel and uh...
		He sounds a little upset.
		Passionately upset.
		Passionately bitter.
unidentified		Wanna take a ride from the high desert and the great American Southwest?
		This is Midnight in the Desert, exclusively on the Dark Matter Digital Network.
		To call the show, dial 1-952-CAL ART.
		That's 1-952-225-5278.
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Suddenly I get it.
		Sometimes during the course of an entire program, I don't get it.
		I'm remembering Blanche when I say that.
		But tonight, I get it.
		And it took this long.
		And I was thinking, boy, Cody sounds like a really angry, bitter guy.
		And then I heard the echoes.
		You see, Cody and I come from completely different worlds.
		Cody Lundine is a primitive skills expert.
		I don't know.
		It's hard not to use the word survival.
		But he thinks the word is ruined.
		So I get it all of a sudden.
		And I can remember being in the exact condition he's in, and I was in it for a very, very long time.
		I used identical words, actually, involving the word yourself as part of the phrase, with a network in the past, in fact, a couple of them.
		And so I get it.
		I really do.
		And I had the same kind of attitude.
		Absolute.
		I guess anger, you know, anger is not probably the right word.
		It is.
		I was angry.
		Really, really angry.
		Many of you know that.
		Many Of you who have listened to me for decades know my history with networks and big corporations, right?
		So, no need to go into all that, but I remember when I was that angry, as angry as Cody as you hear in his voice tonight when he talks about it.
		I have in it, it has ensued that to some degree in myself, it can still come back because it's like part of my soul now or something.
		So, all of a sudden, I get it.
		Even though we're in completely different worlds in one way, we're in the same world in another way, Cody.
		So, I so totally get it.
		Here's what I would ask, I guess.
		Going forward, if you were to do a show, how about the idea of doing sort of what I finally ended up doing after the second bad experience?
		And by that I mean saying, screw you, everybody, I'm going to take a camera out.
		I know this idea has been taken already, but I'm going to take a camera out to areas where I can show and teach people how to survive and do it all on my own and just sell it to some network.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Are you asking me if I'm interested in doing that?
unidentified		Yeah.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm already doing that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, that's what it comes down to.
		When you go through what you and I have gone through with corporations, and you're at a more angry stage than I am right now regarding this, I did that.
		I just said, the hell with it, man, I'm going to go do it myself the way I want to do it and the way I think it ought to be done.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		And that's what I think is cool about you, you know, and we do have a lot in common.
		And the cool thing about technology is you can do that.
		Art Bell can say, you know, screw that.
		You know, I'm tired of X, Y, and Z. And with technology, you can do your own thing, and I can too, through this thing called streaming.
		You know, because cable is a dinosaur.
		Cable are rolling newspapers, and they know that.
		I know a lot of television executives, and they're all nervous because of things like Hulu and Amazon Prime and Netflix.
		And pretty soon the kids of tomorrow will be going, cable what?
		And that will be like a rotary phone.
		And the cool thing about that, as you know, because you're doing it, and I'd love to talk with you off the air about how you're doing that, is it allows all these super creative people to not get blocked by these executives at a round table, and they can do what they want to do.
		And with that, there's loads of junk, of course, that'll be out there.
		But then the talent can rise to the top, and the people with the real passion and vision or whatever.
		So absolutely, I'm doing my own thing.
		That's not common knowledge.
		I guess it is now.
		The cookies are still in the oven, and I will do a show that is like you've never seen before.
		And we are doing a television show like television used to be.
		It'll not be a phony reality show.
		It'll be a good old-fashioned scripted TV show, you know, with a musical intro and the whole bit like TV used to be.
		And it'll be, of course, entertaining because any good instructor or any good educator is a natural entertainer.
		You have to be to keep people's attention in the classroom.
		So in a sense, I've had live Nielsen ratings for 25 years.
		I know what keeps my students engaged, and I know what keeps them not engaged.
		So I have a distinct advantage over networks because, one, I know my profession very well, and I also am a teacher.
		So any teacher knows to keep the students' attention, they have to be entertaining.
		So this show will be highly educational, very entertaining, and completely out of the box.
		And it was pitched to networks, and they all refused it because, quote, it was too out of the box for TV.
		And so here we have this sameness of monoculture of, you know how it is.
		You know, well, this has worked, so let's just do, you know, Friday the 13th, 10, you know, or whatever it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		But I'm super excited to do the Art Bell thing, you know, and whether a network picks it up, that's groovy.
		But it'll already be encased in stone about me doing my thing, how I want to do it.
		And really, it's been a really, it was healing.
		It was a catharsic product.
		I mean, within weeks after being fired, I was already making sets, constructing sets, because it was the way that it was helping me cope with the real damage that that network did.
		And I enjoy the process immensely, like I know you do.
		I mean, you're passionate about radio like I am about survival skills.
		And I'm so happy that we both have the opportunity to, you know, Art Bell can be Art Bell, damn it, you know, and he can do his own thing, you know, on his land in Nevada, and I can do my own thing.
		And just five or ten years ago, that's not a possibility, Art, and you know that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, but here's what you can do.
		I mean, the hell with the networks.
		You don't really need them.
		What you can do is, as you point out, just have a, I don't know, have a good web presence somewhere and have a subscription service to what you're going to sell and stream it.
		And you'll do just fine.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
		Yeah, because you're a big inspiration for me because you're, you know, it's like Art Bell is like doing its own thing.
		You know, and you're a radio legend.
		So it's inspiring.
		You're inspiring to a lot of people, in my situation or not, that just have something to share but feel this oppressive grip of these six fat guys sitting at a table wearing suits deciding what America watches.
		Nonsense.
		There's no more of that.
		There's no more of that.
		That's a dead paradigm, and I'm glad it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's a dying paradigm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's not gone yet, but it's dying.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		You're right.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		You're right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure of that.
		It's dying.
		And a lot of things are changing around us.
		I mean, the world is changing.
		Look, AM radio stations, FM radio stations, I don't know how long they're going to be around.
		AM will be the first to go if it's not going already.
		And much as I love it, I mean, I've been in it all my life, but my eyes are open.
		I can see what's going on.
		When was the last time you saw somebody trotting down the street with a transistor radio jammed in their ear?
		Doesn't happen anymore.
		What they've got now is iPhones strapped to their sides and little headphones.
		And so it's a different - the world has changed.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		So you're saying it's the same with the radio stuff as it is with cable and networking.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course, of course.
		Yeah, of course.
		Sure.
		It's just, you know, fortunately for somebody like yourself or myself, we are the talent.
		So it doesn't matter ultimately how we get delivered to receptive eyes or ears.
		There'll always be a way.
		It's going to be tough on the people who own the hardware, big AM stations and FM stations now.
		Tough on them.
		Going to be tough on cable.
		Going to be tough on everybody.
		Going to be tough on DirecTV.
		It'll be tough on everybody.
		But that doesn't mean that you can't get your show to people and I can't get my show to people.
		We're the talent.
		There's always a way, just a different tube to send it down, you know?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Right.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		And thank God for that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, thank God.
		Right.
		So how much can you talk about or can you not talk about?
		Probably you can talk about it, right?
		What you're about to do?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		No, I can't.
		So I'm sorry.
		You know, I just needed to, I wouldn't have ever brought it up unless it came to a natural bringing it up because you segued into it.
		But the cookies are still baking.
		This industry is toxic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		And so, yeah.
		So you had your two-year hiatus.
		I did a little research on you, and you were planning the whatever, and so am I. That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so it's exactly the same thing, and I had to keep my mouth shut, too.
		And it's hard because I love to talk.
		You know, I'm on the radio for X number of hours every night, right?
		And I'm excited about something, and I really want to talk.
		And I have to pin my own lips shut.
unidentified		I know.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		I know.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Believe me, I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, then you're giving us a lot to look forward to, then, actually.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		I hope so.
		And even if my show sucks, it'll teach you how to stay alive.
		You know, because I'm producing the content.
		I'm writing the content.
		I'm directing the content.
		So I'm editing.
		I literally have an edit bay, and I've taught myself to edit.
		I have people that are helping me in the biz that shall remain nameless that believe in what I'm doing.
		So it'll be as professional as I can do it.
		But I'm offering real value, and I'm super excited, Art, because not only has it been a healing process, this show that's in my head, has been in my head for 14 years.
		Well, then, folks, this is really free survival TV.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, this is actually breaking news that you're hearing tonight, Ben.
		I didn't know we'd get here, but I clearly see how we got here.
		Breaking news.
		And I understand you can't say more.
		How about, can you talk about timelines?
		In other words, without talking about what the show will be, when might we expect to be able to see it?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		And if I knew, I know that there's a lot of people out there, and this is a wonderful chance for me to market this, and I really appreciate you allowing this.
		But I don't want to put myself in a box because it's so labor-intensive because it's me and a couple other people.
		You know, on Dual Survival, there was like massive amounts of crew and 15 people back in New York City.
		And I'm probably like you are where I'm, well, I don't know.
		I'll call myself anal retenf because I am.
		And I want this thing done right.
		And so I have my hands in every little bit of the pie.
		And that takes time because there's only one of me.
		I'm finding myself, I can't delegate now because all the creative stuff is coming out of my head.
		So I really can't say, hey, so-and-so, can you write a script about X, Y, and Z?
		I can't do that.
		So it's taking a lot of time.
		We've been shooting for quite some time.
		It's not a new concept.
		But really, I've told you more than I've told anyone else, you and your tens of thousands of billions of listeners.
		And really, I don't, I would love to tell you about the show later on, and I think you'll dig it.
		Let's put it this way.
		And I don't do drugs and alcohol.
		That wasn't the case in the past.
		But never, never have a survival instructor that's drunk or stoned.
		That's a little, it's right up there with don't eat yellow snow.
		That makes sense.
		But if you took a whole bunch of acid and sat down in a chair and turned on the TV and watched a survival show, you'd be watching my show art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right for you.
		Listen, I so, so, so get what you're doing.
		Listen, I do a radio show, and as far as I know, I'm the only one in the industry.
		I run my own board.
		I play my own music.
		I pick my own music.
		I answer my own phones.
		I don't have a call screener.
		There's nobody else in the room with me ever.
		I don't have, you know, anybody.
		I do the whole thing from here.
		It's all in front of me.
		And I wouldn't have it any other way.
		Nobody else can do it the way I can do it because of the rhythm of it or something.
		I don't know.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're Art Bell.
unidentified		Well, you're Cody Ludine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So I expect that what we're going to get from you is going to be innovative and London special.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Hell yeah, yes, yes, you will.
		That's what you'll get.
		And if you don't like the context of how I'm presenting the information, you won't be able to argue with the content because I'm basing it on sound physics, physiology, and psychology.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		So most people these days live in cities.
		They're urban dwellers.
		And I guess you're going to try and reach out to that group as well because that's most people.
		I mean, you know, even if you want to talk ratings, if you want to tell people in cities how to stay alive, You're sending out a very important message, right?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		And I have two books, as you know.
		98.6 Degrees, Art of Keeping Your Ass Alive, was my first book, and that's based on modern outdoor survival.
		What happens if art's out with the jeep in the desert and it drops an axle or whatever, and art has to survive in a short-term emergency, typically three days or less.
		My second book, When All Hell Breaks Loose, is just what you're talking about.
		It's a book on urban preparedness, and you can look at the demographics.
		I mean, I haven't checked with my publisher in two years.
		When All Hill Breaks Loose, it sold well over 100,000 copies, and it was by far the better seller than 98.6 degrees because it dealt with an urban population.
		And so you hit the nail on the head.
		And yes, I think urban preparedness is important just because the demographics of that, I think 90% of us live in metro areas, and that's to be expected.
		So yeah, I'm passionate about that.
		And what I'm also passionate about is just self-reliance in general.
		You know, I adore living off the grid, but that doesn't mean you have to be out in the bush to live off the grid.
		So whether it's composting or recycling, or, you know, we're not sustainable on this planet, and that troubles me.
		Because when you have something that's not sustainable, it means there's an end point.
		And we keep kicking the can down the road to, you know, your grandkids and your great-grandkids, and sometimes that can't stop.
		And so I'm very passionate about trying to do more with less and being as comfortable as possible.
		And what I mean by that is I'm not advocating the hippie roll in the dirt and eat grubs.
		You know, people are not willing to get dirty and eat bugs, and I don't expect them to.
		But my homestead, for example, I've designed it to cooperate with nature.
		It heats and cools itself.
		It ventilates itself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, somebody wanted you to describe your Arizona place.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've got apparently quite a lash-up there in Arizona, eh?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Quite a what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Lash-up.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		What is that term?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's a place to live.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When I say lash-up, I mean you've got quite an exotic place that you cut out for yourself.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		I've never heard that term.
		Yeah, it's lashed.
		And I've never heard that term before.
		Yeah, I learned something.
unidentified		Thanks.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		But yeah, I have quite a lash-up in Arizona.
		And my lash-up was basically being as how hypo and hyperthermia are the biggest killers of people in outdoor survival situations, a lack of thermal regulation, core body temperature.
		We've touched on that briefly.
		I wanted to design a home that would regulate its own temperature.
		Because according to people who do these sort of studies, up to 30 to 40% of our energy budget in the United States of America goes to keeping your house room temperature, which is a crime.
		So what I've done, and it doesn't need to just be done in Arizona, of course it's easy here because of our Sundays, not Sundays during the week, but our solar radiation days, is I've designed a passive solar earth home that again heats and cools itself.
		I don't burn any wood.
		It regulates its own temperature, which is key to survival.
		And I catch rain.
		I compost waste, including my own poop.
		And basically, the missing link I have is growing food because I was flying around the world doing a TV show for so long.
		And that's my missing link.
		So my homestead is pretty much self-supporting.
		I do have photo ticks, which of course you know about the batteries.
		There's shelf life on all that stuff.
		That's right.
		But we go back to the Ted Coppel thing.
		You mentioned I can visualize your setup because of my lash thing or whatever you called it.
		That Art doesn't really know that the grid's down because Art's got his own grid going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so do I. Now, see, I'm not saying that would run an air conditioner forever because an air conditioner simply requires too damn much current.
		Although they are coming out with some new DC setups, Cody, that are pretty slick and don't use so much current.
		I'm looking into it.
		At any rate, that's the one thing I can't run, and you've got to have it out here.
		I mean, where I live, Cody, it can go to 116 degrees.
		You know, you've got to have air.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		No, you don't.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		It depends on how.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've got to have air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Cody, I've got to have air.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Okay, because your house wasn't built for the train it's on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
		You're right.
		And going back to what you said about getting, you know, being stuck in the Jeep and stuff like that, the answer is simple for me.
		OnStar, help!
		I'm sorry, I got to say that.
		I've got to be honest with you here.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		I understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, okay.
		Hold tight.
		We're at a short break here.
		We'll be right back.
		Cody Lundine is my guest.
		I'm Art Bell, and this is Midnight in the Desert.
		Cheering me up as we go.
unidentified		Absolutely.
		The midnight moon was dripping through lazy twaving trees.
		I saw the look in your eyes, looking into mine, seeing what you want.
		Music Come on, men and women, Skypod.
		Call Midnight in the Desert at MITV 51.
		That's MITD 51.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Let me take a moment and do the talk.
		All right.
		And it'll just take a second.
		If you would like to join in the conversation, and frankly, I'm having such a really good time with this interview that I just realized two hours left and has gone by, and I haven't given out any numbers or even thought about doing so, nor have I gone nearly through my list of questions for Cody.
		Cody Lundine, my guest.
		But if you would like to join us, my national number, and I will get you in the conversation, I promise, is Area Code 952-225-5278.
		Once again, area code 952-225-5278.
		You can reach us on Skype.
		Wonderful instrument, Skype.
		You download it because it's free to your device, and then all you do is add us.
		It's called adding a contact, right?
		Once you become a little familiar with Skype, you'll get the place where you add a contact.
		And in North America, America, and Canada, you put in MITD 51.
		MITD51.
		If you're outside the U.S. and Canada, M-I-T-D-5-5.
		That's M-I-T-D 5-5.
		So if you want to say something to Cody, that would be the way to do it as we progress through this final hour.
		Man, it went fast.
		Cody, welcome back.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So let me try a couple of the standard questions on you.
		For example, how many times have you ever faced a situation where you thought, you know what, I'm not going to make it out of this one really alive?
		This one's going to get me?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Not me, but I've been in a compromised situation years ago.
		I think it was in 94 or so with a bunch of students.
		We all got horribly sick on something we ate in the field.
		And I had, you know, I say this story right before people want to sign up for my courses, right?
		This isn't exactly good marketing, but you asked.
		And so we got into something in the field that we shouldn't have.
		I think it was something I brought in.
		It was like an old squash because I've been growing native gardens for years.
		And I had students down on the ground, and they were vomiting and pooping their pants.
		They didn't have the energy to pull down their pants.
		And it was very, very scary.
		Of course, it was in the dead of night.
		And I had to hike out using the North Star to a ranch I knew about and puking myself.
		I was sick too.
		And with a student of mine who's a friend of mine to this day for whatever reason.
		And that was scary.
		I thought I was going to lose some students in that course.
		And I had people hallucinating, seeing fairies, seeing all sorts of stuff.
		And I thought I might lose some because, again, dehydration, the biggest cause of death on the planet is lack of sanitation through diarrhea and dysentery.
		It kills hundreds of thousands of people every year right now.
		And I thought when I went to call and those helicopters came in, I didn't know if I was going to have some dead students at this college course.
		And if I had, I would have quit and I would have done something else.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So most of them, or all of them, I guess, made it through?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, of course.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's great.
		If you can carry one item with you for survival or for I know you hate that word.
		The most important item to carry on your person for self-preservation would be one.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		You've got to give me the context, Art.
		You know how I am about that.
		So what situation are we talking about here?
		FM or AM?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Bronx.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Urban survival?
unidentified		Are you serious?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, sure.
		It's an urban area, the Bronx.
		What's the most important thing to be carrying on?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		It might be a .45-caliber pistol.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it might be a past.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		You know, it depends on what the scenario is.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		And that's a scary situation.
unidentified		It is.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Because a lot of cities are, I mean, let's talk about poop.
		Who doesn't like to talk about poop?
		You know, the average adult puts out about a half a pound of fecal matter a day.
		So if you have sanitation systems that are compromised, which of course they would be in our Ted Coppel exercise, it's going to be a crappy situation out there.
		You know, hundreds of thousands of pounds of fecal matter will be around our major cities, including garbage, and then we have a roaring comeback of cockroaches and rats and mice, and we have epidemics, and that's how these things start.
		And we have compromised emergency response systems.
		It's scary, you know, because that's plausible.
		These are real things.
		You know, we can talk about alien abductions and EMPs and Bigfoot and earth changes and whatever.
		What about the poop?
		It's the little things that kill people.
		And we don't know where to put our refuse if we don't have guys and trucks taking it away.
		And I've just said, and I'll say it again, and I teach it in every damn class I do, the first thing we learn how to do in an Aboriginal Living Skills course is how to safely poop in the outdoors.
		Because most people don't know how to do that.
		And we translate that over into our backyard on the urban courses that we do.
		And hundreds of thousands of people die every year of diarrhea and dysentery.
		And they dehydrate from the inside out.
		So it's these little things that I wanted to talk with you about as well that are important, that people, we're so used to sitting on a toilet that it doesn't even dawn on us.
		Talk about grid down.
		I'm not worried about the spoiled lasagna, so to speak.
		I'm worried about that first bell movement, right?
		If it goes in the creek behind your house, what are you going to do with it?
		And there's lots of things you can do with it.
		I recycle it.
		That's one thing you can do with it, but you've got to be on your game.
		Got to have your game face on for that.
		So there's a lot of, as wonderful as I, I love modern technology.
		I really enjoy going to the grocery store, but it's an illusion.
		You know, we don't have bananas and apples in the same season.
		You know, so I think it's really important that people just get a little bit more grounded and realize and go outdoors and maybe have a tomato plant in a pot indoors instead of a pothos plant or something and getting reinvigorated about what it means to be a human being on planet Earth and stay alive in the same sense.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's say that you prepare, that you do the things that you should do to prepare for, I don't know, the power going off or whatever else might go on or happen that would be bad, and you've built a...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Remember that?
unidentified		Where they built this really cool shelter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And they had everything in there, all the food, everything, medical stuff, you know, all the stuff you would want and need to sustain yourself.
		But everybody knew about It.
		So it's like everybody knocked on the door, screamed and banged on the door until they blew their house down, effectively.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, discretion is next to godliness.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		So I thought about that when I thought about you, Art, and your home in the desert, depending on which window you look out.
unidentified		Yes.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		With the lights are on at Art's place, party at Arts, you know, so you need to think about that and whether the generator's in a soundproof box, ventilated or whatever.
		To me, power is a wonderful thing, but it's overrated for base survival.
		I mean, it's funny that you mentioned that you have recommend people turn their own grid off, because that's an exercise in my second book, When All Hell Breaks Loose, I actually recommend that people, I mean, obviously if you're in an apartment complex, you don't want to switch the breaker because it pisses people off, but you can just tape over your own electrical outlets or whatever, but shut your grid down and define where the pain comes from first, because people's pain can be different.
		For yours, in June, it's air conditioning, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		You know, because there's hypothermia.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		And I want to be real clear, Art, even though I'm not saying build another house, but you do not need air conditioning in the desert if the architecture fits the land that it's based upon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, here's what I've always thought.
		You can tell me if this is crazy or not, but you don't have to dig down in the earth very far to reach a stable, decent, actually cool temperature.
		And you could be literally living underground and probably not need air conditioning and not need heating.
		Because you get down far enough, it becomes quite stable.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		That's what my homestead is.
		I'm underground in my homestead.
		I'm living what you're talking about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what is the average temperature maintained?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		In my house, around 68 to 75 year-round.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Golding watch, I like it.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		I forget the, it's like for every foot, it changes in temp, but then it kind of stabilizes out at like 55 or whatever it is, which is, of course, is incompatible.
		We don't want our living room 55.
		But here's three things your listeners should know about as far as self-reliant design.
		One is solar south.
		My house is pointed solar south because we're in the northern hemisphere.
		So all the windows are to the south.
		I don't like the north for past solar design.
		So I have right orientation.
		I have lots of insulation.
		Dead airspace keeps the cocoa hot and the Kool-Aid cold.
		So it does both.
		And you know, it can get damn cold in your studio.
		It can get smoking hot because the deserts have both.
		We're screwed both ways because of lack of atmosphere.
		And the other is thermal mass.
		And that's where this concrete in my house comes into play.
		And that's where my flagstone floor comes into play, where the sunlight comes through my windows, hits the floor, soaks in, turns to long-wave radiation because it was short-wave when it came from the sun.
		And it re-radiates back out and keeps my house warm when the sun goes away.
		And it's free.
		In ancient Rome, there was a sun law, you know, where if you built a building in my sun, I could sue you because the sun was free energy.
		The Roman baths were faced the right direction.
		Otherwise, you know, they were all freezing their butts off.
		So insulation, orientation, and thermal mass, and I have thermal mass because I have a lot of earth over my house as well.
		You think like an animal.
		Animals aren't walking around like gringos and donkeys in the noonday sun.
		They're burrowing into a saguaro cactus or they're burrowing into the ground.
		Now that said, you don't need to have an earth home.
		Insulation is key, and windows are key.
		If I was building a structure in the desert or the mountains, I'd want as much insulation in the walls as I could possibly afford.
		But also, if you insist on that view out the northern windows, that's why your heating bill is $500 a month.
		Because you have to adapt to the environment, and this is this disconnect we have, where we're designing boxes called houses to fit into areas based on ego or the view or whatever it is.
		We're not paying attention to what the natural world is, and that's a mistake.
		And that's why we have these outrageous heating and cooling bills, and people are screwed.
		If the grid goes down, if the grid goes down, I don't need the grid where I live.
		I don't need it.
		My house still regulates the heat.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, but Cody, everybody knows that about you, right?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, people in your area, people know.
		I mean, you're a public person like I am, so you discussed this.
		So, I mean, they know you're ready, right?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm telling you, man, they know you're ready.
		They know you've probably got storable food.
		They know you've probably got a way to generate energy.
		They know you've got a home that might be comfortable when there is 118 degrees.
		So if something awful happens, how does Cody protect his lash-up?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Cody can be very mobile when Cody needs to be mobile.
		And Cody is very good at being out in the landscape.
		So as much as I would hate to get up my homestead, Cody can be very mobile.
		The other thing I'm trying to do, instead of promote fear, is I'm trying to educate people that they too can be independent and self-reliant.
		And that's part of the reason I have my company.
		And that's part of the reason that's what I stand for.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not fear, Cody, but I mean, what I'm saying, what I'm trying to say, and I guess I better say it directly, is somebody's going to come and take your stuff away.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		I understand what you're saying.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		You know, I totally get it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, tell me, what do you do?
unidentified		Do you protect it with weapons, if necessary?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		It's a very, very remote location, for one.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		It's very remote, and it has certain things in its terrain and topography that are to my benefit, not yours.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Landmines?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		No, that's a different profession.
		We'll see what happens.
		But my whole thing is, you know, I know people that their game plan is to go raid the Mormon population.
		I know that type of personality, and it disgusts me because it's a parasite.
		I don't like parasites.
		So my deal is to try to educate as many people as possible.
		And yes, I'm slightly evading Your question.
		I understand completely what you're talking about, Art, because I lived in the woods for two years in a brush shelter, man.
		So I know about tracking people out and living illegally in the woods, and I've done all that stuff, etc.
		But I don't want that out there per se.
		I'd rather hold out education and hope people take that.
		And if not, then they can go in the stew pot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The stew pot, huh?
		Okay.
		Well, I can't top that.
		I mean, if you're going to turn them into protein.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Let me ask you something, Art.
		If Push comes the shove, would you eat someone?
		Be honest.
unidentified		I, uh...
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		You don't, you're not...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would need some time to...
		I would need some time to think.
		Oh, they're already dead.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		They're already dead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Send on top of that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm starving to death.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		There's the context for you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, the Donner Party says it all, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Well.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		So does that mean yes or no?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, that means I don't know if I could answer it until I got into that situation.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		I understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My answer today wouldn't be the same, perhaps, as once I'm starving.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		People will do almost anything.
		You're absolutely right.
		And that's why I love to read survival stories.
		People do almost anything.
		And I understand that psychology.
		Survival is 90% psychology.
		And I get that because part of my courses are taking people, we don't want to break through the envelope, but we're pushing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, right.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		You know, so I understand about uncomfortable people.
		I've been doing it for a long time in real wilderness with people who are just like, my God, I paid for this.
		On some of the more aggressive courses.
		And it's really scary.
		But at the same time, it can really be a rallying experience where the tribe comes out and everyone pulls together.
		You know, like Katrina, like Hurricane Katrina.
		You know, it was a government failure.
		But if you read all those news releases, a lot of these quote-unquote poor neighborhoods, because they were used to doing something called talking to each other every day, they pulled together and they found out why Mrs. Withers wasn't on her porch in her rocking chair.
		And they totally took care of their own.
		And that's what can happen.
		Survival situations could bring out the beast in people.
		Or the best.
		Exactly.
		And that's one of the reasons I love my profession is because there's a lot of head games going on.
		There's a lot of psychology involved.
		And to be a good leader like Sir Ernest Shackleton, someone like him that kept all his men alive in Arctic conditions, it's really inspiring.
		And that's what I'm trying to instill in people is, you know, party on, man.
		You know, you can do this.
		And if you can't do this, die with your damn boots on.
		That's kind of a bad metaphor for me, but you know what I mean.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it is for you, yes.
		What about the modern prepper movement?
		I have a lot of people who, for reasons that you might laugh at and fear that they have that you might laugh at, are nevertheless prepping.
		And do you have any comments to that group?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think preparation is always a good thing.
		Again, I grew up around grandparents chopping the heads off chickens and having root cellars and canning their garden produce in South Dakota, right?
		It's not strange to me.
		The prepping movement was just something that was normal in my grandma's day.
		It was something they just did.
		They would have laughed, you know, at the prepping movement.
		It was just common sense.
		I think preparation is good.
		Again, like I mentioned about an hour and a half ago, and ma'am, this has flown quickly, that when preparation is done in fear, when it's done in a fear-based thing, it's temporary at best.
		And so if people want to be a part of the prepping movement because they really dig simplifying their lives and being more self-reliant and not being a slave and, you know, turning their kids on to how a tomato really grows and that it's actually, you know, a plant before it's a vegetable, I think that's great.
		And I'll totally support that.
		What I won't support is the fear-mongering BS.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, all right, so here's a straight-up question for you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you live on the 50th floor of a high-rise in any major city, it doesn't matter, and the power goes out, that place short of generators is a tomb.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Your question is?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What kind of advice do you give people who live in those environments?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		More often than not, that's what people live in these days.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		I know.
		Yeah, that's a tough one.
		Do you want to, let's say, well, you know me and specifics, but okay, I got your question.
		You need to deal with, of course, there's the very, very short-term hygiene and sanitation, which we've kind of briefly talked about.
		There's a water element that's going to come in.
		There's clearly the personal self-defense element that's going to come in eventually.
		There's communications.
		There's some regulation like we talked about, like, wow, it's 110 in my apartment, stuff like that.
		So really, this, I will answer your question, but people always ask me, hey man, Cody, what's like your ultimate bug out bag, dude?
		And I'm saying, well, think about just basic backpacking equipment.
		If you think about what a backpacker has, they don't have to interact with nature at all.
		They can walk around blissfully ignorant of how the natural world works because they've got everything on their back.
		And you could be a backpacker and camp out in Central Park.
		A lot of people are in tents after earthquakes, right?
		You know, the buildings are unstable.
		So if you take these little sized bites of the elephant, because you asked a massive question, and people realize, okay, well, Cody says a bug out kit could just be really good backpacking gear.
		We have a sleeping bag to keep us warm if it's cold, a ground pad to prevent conduction.
		We have some food to eat.
		We might have a little stove to cook it on if it requires that.
		We have some water and a way to disinfect it.
		We have a flashlight to get down those 50 flights of stairs.
		Stuff like that.
		And when people take this big, massive elephant and carve it down into that manageable slice, Then they just get more of, okay, we've got a flashlight, let's get a bunch of batteries, we've got camping food, let's get a little bit more of that, let's start storing some water in gallon jugs or a 55-gallon drum if we can do that in our apartment.
		Let's get a bunch of Ziploc bags and plastic bags.
		We can always put them in the toilet bowl with no water and poop in them.
		You know, and I love newspaper.
		It is a fire hazard, obviously, but shredded newspaper is good for diapers or sanitary napkins or wiping your butt or disposing of a dead body.
		I mean, shredded newspaper, you know, if you poop in the bowl with a plastic bag, you can add different stuff to that and contain that fecal matter for the meantime.
		There's all these little things, but it's daunting.
		And you ask a great question because it's daunting, you know, because there's a lot of stuff that needs to happen.
		The biggest stuff that should happen is cooperation.
		And ideally, every apartment building will have some game plan.
		Unfortunately, that probably doesn't happen because the guy that wants to make a game plan or the girl is thought to be a wacko.
unidentified		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		I'll tell you a little story, Cody.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I own a condo in the Philippines in Manila.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, that's a city, let me tell you.
		We were on the 19th floor.
		I still own it, by the way.
		I'm a ham operator.
		Have been all my life.
		So I tried to let them have me put up a Nanton on the roof, and I did have one for a while.
		But they made me take it down.
		And I said, look, you people, I actually went to the board.
		I said, if we get a big earthquake, and we are here in earthquake country, you know, and or hit by a typhoon, and we're certainly in typhoon country, communication is going to go down.
		And they said, no, no, it won't.
		Other cell phones have always been okay.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		I said, well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, I actually had to leave the Philippines with my family because of that.
		Because they wouldn't let me put up bantannas.
		I said, look, if something happens, I can get to the authorities.
		I can find out if people are safe.
		I can do a lot of things for our two-building community.
		And they wouldn't allow it.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		There you go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there you go.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		So, I mean, you're a godsend.
		I mean, I have a book on communication or a chapter on communications, and ham is where it's at.
		And I keep, I have, there's a local ham community in Prescott, and some of the guys keep saying, Cody, come here, and I just haven't had the time, but I would love a ham unit myself because communications are, I mean, they're worth their weight in gold, clearly.
unidentified		Of course.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		They break down situation.
		And you guys are it.
		So you're still active, Ham?
		You have your whole setup at your place there?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do indeed.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can talk to any point anywhere in the world.
unidentified		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So very quickly, Skype, James, you're on with Cody.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Art.
unidentified		73 is Cody and Art.
		That's Ham Lingo.
		Yep, yep.
		Now, my master's is in emergency management, and I actually have read Cody's books.
		They're awesome.
		Hearing him tonight explain some of the things, I think he understands that, like, an EMP, any kind of thing that happens, he's exactly right.
		They say on an EMP attack in central, you know, central to the U.S., if that did that, 90% of the people in the U.S. would be dead from feces, just like he's talking about, not being able to get to their drugs from, you know, the older folks and people who need drugs or the young people who have whatever.
		So there's all these problems that are going to compound.
		And Cody's on the mark.
		The one thing I would mention, I don't know if Cody's ever read the blog by the gentleman when Argentina collapsed, but his blog describes the best places to live.
		And it wasn't out all by yourself in the middle of nowhere because those became rape horror rooms.
		It wasn't living in the inner cities.
		Those just became violent cesspools.
		It was living in small communities where you knew everybody, just like Cody was saying, in the poor areas where everybody knew everybody, if somebody broke in your house, your neighbor would hear you scream.
		You got it.
		And come to your aid.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You got it.
unidentified		And so that's the whole thing, I think.
		Cody is breaking it down nicely.
		I'm glad he's on your program, Art.
		And I'll let you go.
		But much love to you guys.
		All right.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Thanks, James.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Appreciate it.
		Take care.
		And so there you go.
		He read your books.
		And I guess he's probably right.
		Would you agree with him about that?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		Okay.
		Yeah, it's the tribe, right?
		Tribes have been around for tens of thousands of years.
		And the mountain man, and I'm not being sexist, just the term mountain man, they died fairly young, you know, and they had a rifle and they had flour and they had a mule and with a horse, but they were doing everything by themselves.
		And that's exhausting.
		So I'm all for, even though I'm a loner, believe it or not, you know, it's like I can't be because I'm a teacher.
		But the community is where it's at.
		You know, the tribe is where it's at.
		And I would love to do something.
		You know, I mean, the federal government, it's not their job to take care of us.
		You know, that's the antithesis of self-reliance.
		But it'd be cool if we had a program similar to like McGruff the Crime Dog or Smokey the Bear for fires to have some sort of cool thing that would prompt people to be more interested, especially kids, in self-reliance.
		Instead of just, you know, waving a flag on 9-11 and eating a piece of pie.
		You know, it's like it'd be nice to do something proactive and make it fun for the younger generation because they'll be taking care of us in the future.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, quickly, in Philadelphia, you're on the air with Cody.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hi, Art.
		How are you?
		Fine.
		To you, I'd like to say I'm listening to you on a $20 shortwave transistor radio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Way to go.
unidentified		I got off eBay.
		It talks into our 9-11.
		And Cody, I'd like to ask you, what do you think of Creek Stewart from the Weather Channel's survival show that was on a few months ago?
		Do you know who I'm talking about?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		I know who you're talking about only because I know he has a show, but I've never heard of him before that, so I really can't give you any intel.
unidentified		He's supposed to be a survival expert.
		He seems pretty knowledgeable, but when I watch the show, it seems like he made fire pretty quickly, like they faked it.
		I don't know.
		I'm not saying he's a bad guy, but it seems like they, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Cody, I think making fire is considered to be your specialty, right?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		I think Discovery has made it seem that way.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I do love fire, and I can hold my own, but there's a lot of other things I do because I have to, you know, to be well-rounded out as an instructor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, just me.
		You know, short of my nice Bic lighter here, I couldn't make fire in a million years.
		I watch people do it.
		I watch the bow thing.
		I watch the rest of it, but I have this feeling that I wouldn't have much luck.
		Although I must say out here in the desert, it's nice and dry.
		It does make it a little easier, I guess, right?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		It does make it a little easier.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		And art, if we ever hook up sometime and meet, I will give you your own personal fire lesson.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, God, I would love that.
		I really would love that.
		Because it's one of the very early things you need.
		I mean, water.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		It is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The human body cannot go long without water.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How long, roughly?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Well, here I am with the variables again.
		It depends on laceral intake of food.
		It depends on medications on board.
		It depends on if someone's pregnant.
		It depends on wind speed.
		It depends on outdoor ambient temperature.
		It depends on exertion.
		It depends on the time of year, humidity, etc.
		So you can see why people hate me, right?
		Because I need to know more detail.
		But in general, your listeners can get their hydration pee.
		The next time they pee, if a body is completely hydrated, the urine will be clear.
		It doesn't mean that you're dead when your urine is yellow, which most Americans especially are chronically dehydrated.
		But that's the way the body can tell you if it has enough water or not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		All right.
		Exactly right.
		I know he is so right.
		In fact, I drink a lot of coffee.
		And.
unidentified		You get a chiver in the dark.
		It's raining in the clouds meantime.
		Well, vocal started.
		Not only riding your stuff in your home.
		Everything.
		Everything.
		We'll be right back.
		To initiate a dialogue sequence with Artfell, please coordinate your Valanges and call 1-952-225-5278.
		That's 1-952.
		Call Art.
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My guest is Cody Lundine.
		You may know him from the TV show we did called Dual Survival.
		You may know him in varying different ways, and soon you'll know him, perhaps, in a different way.
		But we're talking about survival.
		Sorry.
		Survival.
		So here's a way of thinking about this, Cody, that I want to lay on you for your thoughts.
		So I live in one of these towns.
		Perhaps about it.
		We're located about 65 miles west of Las Vegas.
		We're probably six or eight miles at most from the California border.
		And it's a deep desert, as you know.
		And there are only three major roads, actually only two major roads, out of town.
		Three maybe.
		And that's it.
		So if something really horrible happened, we have had discussions here.
		We have a unique situation here in Promo Devada because we have underground water.
		We have water wells and underground water and septics and so forth and so on.
		And then when you add to that emergency power and dried food that lasts a very long time, you have a situation where you can live for a long time except for the most dangerous thing of all.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		People.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, see, you got California to the west, L.A., where you could imagine an earthquake.
		You could imagine millions of people pouring out of California one way or the other.
		Or even my friends over the hill in Las Vegas there, two million people.
		There have been talks, Cody, by myself and others in this community and some of its leaders about in a situation of that sort, blowing the roads.
		Can you understand that?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I get it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, there is no more of a danger than other people.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Other unprepared people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Who are very scared and desperate.
		I get it.
		It's that we're the most dangerous animal on the planet.
		And there's talk, you know, I mean, you can imagine some of the talks that I've been around or people or whatever.
		I mean, I've been doing this a long, long time.
		And yeah, there's certain arteries in Depression and there's certain people that talk about blocking those certain arteries.
		And I think it's interesting to remember what happened in Katrina again.
		A hurricane gives you lots of warning.
		We don't get that luxury with an earthquake or a tornado.
		We just had three quakes in Arizona last night.
		You don't get the luxury of preparation for something like that like you do a hurricane.
		And even with that preparation of Katrina.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A lot died.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Well, a lot died, but as far as you're talking about egress and ingress, the highways were clogged.
		I talked to people after my second book came out, with people emailing me, we were stuck in traffic for eight hours and went two miles.
		So you're going to have, I mean, a four-lane highway is not that big of an artery when you're talking about hundreds of thousands of people.
		And, you know, it's just not sustainable for the type of stuff, you know, let's all go to Perump.
		But I understand what you're saying, and I think that I don't want people to think that I'm not well aware of strategy, you know, and I understand, and I can instinctively think like an animal because I've spent a lot of time in the bush, and most animals are hunted.
		So I understand the psychology that goes into someone who's really scared and hungry, and I understand Not wanting to be eaten.
		And I really, really wish that we would all get with the program.
		And I know it's never going to happen, right, for everyone, but I'm hoping your listeners will be inspired to go out and be a little bit more self-reliant after our talk tonight.
		And I really, I really appreciate the opportunity to come on your show.
		Not to mention that I think you're a radio god.
		But you know what I'm saying?
		Self-reliance doesn't have to be scary.
		It doesn't have to be fear-based.
		My grandparents called it good old common sense.
		And so I take my heart is with my grandparents because they originally inspired me to do more with less because they could do, they went through the depression, for God's sake, you know, and told me some of the stories.
		And so they're my inspiration with trying to be prepared and not doing it with this psycho-zombie fear, you know, that's so common out there.
		It's a big mistake.
		Fear is the mind killer, right?
		Dune, Benny Gesseret training, Frank Herbert, you know, fear is the mind killer, and it really is.
		And it can keep you alive.
		Adrenaline is a wonderful thing, but it can also paralyze your thought process.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, though, even if it's zombies that gets them to prepare, it's not all that bad.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If they prepare, then they prepare.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		I agree.
		And you know I'm a purist by now, and you know I'm pretty hardcore in my methodology, but I agree that even if people are scared and they're preparing, thank God they got the pinnot beans.
		And I applaud them for that, and I think that's very wise.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Kurt and Skype, you're on the air with Cody Hine.
unidentified		Hello, how are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm very well, thank you.
unidentified		Good to hear you all.
		Great so tonight.
		I was going to ask, well, I'm in Tallinn, Arizona.
		Wasn't he Nicholas?
		What part of Arizona are you in?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		I live outside of Prescott, but you probably know where that is.
unidentified		Yeah, it's a beautiful area.
		I was going to ask you what you thought about fossil fuels and every city and every nation has a big old dark cloud over it.
		My brother, let me just.
		My brother committed suicide with exhaust.
		He put a hose in his exhaust pipe and painted it and then died that way in an hour.
		And then I think of us all sitting on the freeways in rush-hour traffic and breathing that a little bit.
		Don't you think that might be what causes all the diseases?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Surely it's an issue.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		And I think until there's more government subsidies to do some more alternative transportation, we're probably going to be in the petroleum phase for a little bit longer.
unidentified		Well, that's just pitiful.
		And then one thing, you talked about recycling your poo.
		How in the world can you do that?
		I'll take my answer off the air.
		All right.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		I recommend the book, The Humane Handbook.
		Humanure Handbook by J.C. Jenkins.
		I actually had the pleasure of his son built my chicken coop on my homestead, which, by the way, is passive solar.
		That's a great book that describes the pathogens that are in human fecal matter, how to do it for different bioregions.
		And since it's a long answer and we're ending the tail of your show, get the humanure handbook and read it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you kind of recommend then, if I've got it right, for the urban person in terms of preparation, there's just not a hell of a lot you can do in a giant apartment building or something, but you can have a go bag prepared?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, most people will probably be exiting out, and it's really, I think, okay, for the average family, find out what hurts.
		You know, what are your needs?
		And Americans confuse those with wants.
		The needs are we need oxygen, we need water, we need food for longer term, we need to be thermoregulated.
		It can't be too cold, it can't be too hot.
		We need some sort of basic sanitation plan as well as hygiene.
		It will be nice to have communications, and it will be nice to have some sort of transportation, even if it's walking down barefoot to the city if you have to.
		I would assess all the resources I have in my apartment.
		I would assess all the resources I have in my immediate area and in my existing town.
		And I would be aware of all the three ways into Perump, Nevada if I needed to get out of town, but be aware that that might not be the most prudent thing to do.
		It really depends on the variables of, of course, psychotic people and looters.
		And one of your call-in guests hit the nail on the head.
		I mean, it's where 90% of Americans are on some sort of mind-altering drug, whether it's caffeine or Prozac or whatever.
		So when you have hundreds of thousands of people that can't get access to mental health medication, you've got a serious blowout along with the stress of an urban survival situation.
		So the family should assess what their strong points are, what their weak points are, custom make it to your family.
		There is no one-size-fits-all kit or mindset or methodology for staying alive.
		And be prepared to adapt and party on and keep that mindset that you're going to get through this even if you don't, especially if you have kids.
		If mom and dad melts down in front of the kids, it's game over.
		So you have to have your game face on for your children, if nothing else, and try to do as best you can for them in a very, very scary situation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so if you're in an urban area and it lights out, the grid goes down, you know, for a year, let's say, obviously you're not going to be able to remain in the city.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So your advice is get out, right?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know.
		I mean, there's a lot of green areas now, a lot of like, there's a lot of city gardens going on in abandoned lots.
		Okay, here's what's going to happen, or here's my crystal ball.
		You're going to have a tremendous amount of fires because when people don't have any access to anything to heat or cook with, they're going to burn whatever they can, including the picnic table in the backyard.
		Because people are inept making fire and handling fire because they don't understand fire, you're going to have a lot of fires in towns, and it will burn down cities and burn down towns because of the one idiot on The block who didn't get his stuff together.
		The other thing that will happen, unfortunately, is when people deal with alternative heating sources or cooking, they'll die of carbon monoxide.
		Carbon monoxide now is the number one poisoning in the United States of America right now, let alone in a grid-down situation.
		So you'll have those things.
		You'll have the roaring comeback of epidemics with the fecal matter.
		You'll have carbon monoxide.
		You'll probably have the fires.
		You'll have problems with sanitation.
		And then you've got the psychotic crazies.
		Eventually kill each other off or try to take your stuff or whatever.
		So there'll be the initial casualties of people taking 12 buckshot to the face.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Stuff like that.
		That's just human nature.
		But whether you stay or whether you go, I mean, where are you going?
		People always think, oh, we're going to head to the hills.
		There's a lot of dead people in the hills aren't.
		It's like, try to shelter in place if you can.
		Have a plan B. Try to have a plan C. And again, there's so many variables in this situation.
		It can be so scary and confusing.
		And everyone's trying to sell you this crap on their website that have no experience in survival skills.
		Stick to basic physiology first and realize that everyone's going to be really scared.
		So that's where the psychology comes in.
		And the physics of heat loss and gain regarding hypo and hyperthermia are key.
		And that's, again, we go back to my homestead or the right clothing in the right environment or the sleeping bag you brought with you, etc.
		Because a grid down situation in the wintertime in Minnesota is much different than a grid down situation in June in Phoenix.
		So, you know, it's these catastrophes like in France where they had the grid down in August when most people were on vacation because that's how they do things there.
		Thousands of people died in their apartments art of hyperthermia and dehydration.
		We're not talking outdoor survival skills here.
		I'm talking about keeping your listeners alive in their apartment or out in the woods.
		And it boils down to keeping things simple and not forgetting about what human physiology requires to stay alive.
		And don't buy into this, I almost cussed, but don't buy into this stuff out there of people selling everything under the sun.
		My motto is the more you know, the less you need.
		And I'm a fan of critical gear.
		But critical gear is based on needs, not wants.
		Please don't, your listeners should not be roped into all the stuff people are trying to sell.
		Think like my grandparents.
		Keep it simple.
		The less moving parts, the better.
		Keep a party on mindset and roll with the variables as best you can.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We are so out of time.
		Michelle, I know, is in Japan.
		Hi, Michelle.
		Do you have a quick question, I hope?
unidentified		I do.
		Mostly food and water are not really a problem for me here if there's ever a big earthquake, and neither is tsunamis.
		But about staying warm, how do you stay warm in there?
		There's a quick, simple tip for how do you stay warm in an apartment building.
		Especially with me because I have the Tommy mat floors, which could catch fire easily.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Okay, clothing.
		Have the right clothing.
		Sleeping bags are cheap.
		Get a couple of sleeping bags, blankets.
		The easiest way to stay warm in cold temperatures is to be adequately dressed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Got it.
		All right.
		Real quick, Stockton, California.
		You've been waiting.
		Thank you.
		You're on air.
unidentified		Hey, Cody.
		Great show.
		I just have one quick question.
		Are you big into hunting at all?
		And also, what is your diet whether or not you're outdoors or in the bush or not?
		Okay.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		In the bush is variable.
		It depends on what course I'm doing.
		Some have food, some don't.
		And I eat quite a bit.
		I eat like six times a day.
		I love to train.
		I love to train a lot.
		So I eat lots of protein.
		I'm very simple.
		Sprouted breads.
		I have a pretty simple monotone diet.
		Sweet potatoes, protein, sprouted bread, and then repeat process.
		Vegetables for dinner with more protein.
		I'm not a paleo diet.
		I'm not doing that, but I have a pretty boring diet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Hello there.
		You're on the air with Cody.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hello.
		Hi, Eric.
		And Cody, what do you think about taking the boots away from a military trained person?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Say that again, please?
unidentified		Cody said if you took the boots away from a military trained person.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That they'd be in pain, yeah.
unidentified		Yeah, but I'm thinking if you had a full platoon, 72 guys, and you could take the boots, the M14, 782 here, the whole shooting match.
		I'd prefer Cody to be the sergeant in charge.
		But if you had 72 guys, you can't take away chain of command, the understanding of such, cooperation, and the ability to obey orders.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I'm not sure where you're going with this.
unidentified		Well, if you garnish the knowledge of 72 people, does Cody believe that they could survive in a harsh situation?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you get that, Cody?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		With the knowledge of 72 people, could you survive?
		It depends on if they're politicians or not, I think, on that.
		So if there's seasoned people in the outdoors, we hope, and there we go back right into the tribe, right?
		That little village that one of your callers talked about.
		And communication and cooperation are key.
		Otherwise, it turns to lower to the flies and people die.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, I would like to say that I really believe in the better side of human beings.
		And there is a good side to them, to be sure.
		But in a national situation, a grid-down situation, for example, Cody, I don't have much hope that it would be better for a long, long time.
		I think that with communication, civilization would return a little faster, and it would come back, and things would settle down.
		But I'm telling you, Cody, my faith in my fellow man, especially in the early days of something like that, I don't have much faith.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		I understand.
		My job as a survival instructor is to be brutally honest and yet also to inspire hope and to inspire the will to live.
		And, well, I agree with what you said, and I hold the same concerns.
		But As my role, as my service to life, I have to have the glass as being half full, not half empty.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, West Virginia, very, very quickly.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hey.
		I just had a quick question for Cody.
		I'm out here on the East Coast in West Virginia, and I was wanting to take some survival courses, and I didn't know if he knew anybody out here that he would recommend.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, you know, that's a good question.
		Do you still teach yourself, Cody?
		Do you have classes?
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		CodyLundine.com.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		I put my new course schedule up for 2016 two weeks ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, excellent.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		So, and to answer his question, I don't know anyone in that area, but I do have a thing on my website, choosing a good instructor, ask for a professional resume.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		If they don't have one, that's your first red flag.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, boy, it has been an honor to have you on tonight, my friend.
		And what a cool show.
		What a really good show.
		I thank you.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		And I want to thank you, Art.
		I think you're really doing a good service, and I'm glad you're out there.
		Thanks for having me on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll do it again sometime if you're willing.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		I am.
cody lundin ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
		Good night.
		There you have it.
		Cody Lundine.
		A lot of you know him.
		Some of you don't.
		Some of you now know more than you did.
		Either way.
unidentified		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what I would say.
unidentified		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What a show.
unidentified		Good night, everybody.
unidentified		Wait a minute.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me do this properly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		To the world's 25 time zones.

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