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Oct. 26, 2015 - Art Bell

02:26:45

Art Bell MITD - Dr Michael Lynch The Ghost Phenomenon

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	From the high desert and the great American southwest, I bid you good evening, good morning,
	good afternoon.
	Wherever you are in the world's 25 time zones, we've got you covered like a blanket with
	midnight in the desert.
	I'm Art Bell.
	Great to be here.
	The rules of the show are simple.
	I articulate them every night, although people forget them every night.
	No bad language, and only one call per show.
	And even that may change.
	All right.
	Like a dog with a bone, I'm going to start in a moment with this megastructure story again.
	And it's for a very good reason, actually.
	But first I want to say welcome to KABC in Los Angeles.
	It is an honor to be back at KABC in LA.
	And, you know, what else can I say?
	It's just a very deep honor.
	The call letters alone You know, if you're in radio, there are certain call letters that just grab you.
	Like K-A-B-C.
	Like W-A-B-C.
	I grew up with W-A-B-C.
	I spent my adult life with K-A-B-C.
	So, they grab me that way.
	You know, they're legendary entities, to be sure.
	So, it's my pleasure to be back on, and I should add one more.
	WWL down in New Orleans.
	That's a big one.
	And by the way, we're close.
	Close.
	You can hear WWL in about 32 states and Canada.
	It's really crazy.
	Alright, so, like a dog with a bone, I'm not going to give this up, and I should not.
	The Washington Post ran the story called The Strange Star that has serious scientists talking about an alien megastructure.
	Right?
	Now, these scientists, two of them, Tabitha Boyajian and Jason Wright at Penn State, absolutely, for years, went through every bit of data they could collect And one by one, slowly eliminated every single possibility they could think of before they uttered the word alien.
	That's right, the word alien.
	This star is almost 1,500 light years away.
	Not quite, but almost.
	It has been obscured at times between 10 and 22 percent.
	give you an idea of how obscure that is.
	When I say obscured, you know, light has been obscured by something on a very erratic but predictable basis and they actually have come up with theories about what it might be and they certainly know what it isn't.
	If you take Jupiter and you put it in front of the star it would reduce the light by one percent so what on God's green earth could reduce it by that much at any time of day?
	And they made multiple observations.
	One of the things that they came up with as a theory is something called a Dyson Sphere, which is an alien civilization that would be so advanced that they would put up something that would obscure to us the light of a star while harnessing the power of a star.
	That would make it, according to Michio Kaku, a Type II Civilization.
	Almost everybody is very, very excited about this.
	Dr. Kaku said if it's true it'll be the story, the most important story in 500 years.
	I still question that number.
	Seems like it would be a bigger number.
	I think it might, you know, if it was actually an alien civilization, if that's what it comes down to, and believe me when I tell you, these scientists Don't utter the word alien easily.
	Not easily at all.
	They think about their family.
	They think about their careers.
	They think about the rest of their life before they ever say the word alien.
	So, I take it very seriously.
	I've been getting regular word from inside NASA that they also are now, after looking at the data, taking it very seriously.
	And they're up to 50% or better in confidence that it's real.
	It is what they say it is.
	In other words, they look at the data and they come to the same conclusions.
	Now, I know.
	I get all excited about this.
	How could I not?
	How could anybody not, actually?
	I want to go for a moment to a good friend.
	He's been with me for years and years and years.
	He is the chief Guy, the big kahuna at SETI, Seth Shostak.
	And I have literally dragged him from his bed to be here, his deathbed nearly.
	Not quite, but he had pneumonia, and he was very, very, very sick.
	Nevertheless, he answered the phone and talked to me about this story, didn't you, Seth?
	I did indeed, Art.
	That's what I call a friend.
	I mean, in the middle of pneumonia, and I know you were feeling awful, and I asked you something.
	I said, Seth, you know, this story is gigantic.
	Would you say it's as big in its own way as the SETI WOW signal?
	You said yes, but I understand you have revised it now, claiming a moment of delirium due to your illness.
	Is that true?
	Well, I could never claim that I don't have moments of delirium.
	I don't know that it was delirium.
	You know, that's kind of a judgment, Carl, whether it's as important as the wow signal.
	In the end, the wow signal has never been proven to be, you know, artificial.
	But on the other hand, I will say this, that it's certainly exciting in the same way that the wow signal was, because it looked like very tantalizing.
	Indication that maybe we had some cosmic company.
	So in that sense, it's certainly exciting.
	All right.
	Then I heard that you ordered the Allen telescopes to immediately begin looking in that direction.
	Yes?
	We have been doing that.
	We've been doing that since, well, we've been doing that for more than a week now.
	More than a week.
	Well, it was about a week ago I passed that info on from your sickbed.
	Right.
	We began observations actually on October 14th, so that's 12 days ago or something like that.
	Okay.
	And today I see a memo, which I put up on the website, that I guess amateur astronomers worldwide are being asked to also look at the same star?
	Well, yes.
	I mean, that's not my area of, if you will, I can't tell amateur astronomers what to look at.
	They'll look at whatever they want to look at.
	But, on the other hand, if you have a newly discovered intriguing phenomenon in the heavens, you know, who wouldn't want every telescope in the world that can be, if you will, corralled into looking at it, to look at it, because you might learn something.
	So, that's definitely a good idea.
	All right.
	One of the things I was contemplating, and obviously you were at about the same time, 15 light years or just short of that amount.
	That's how far away it is.
	And I started wondering radio signals, radio signals.
	Let's see.
	There is a, I believe, even in space, there is a calculation for In other words, if they begin at a certain wattage or power, as they go out from Earth, kind of, if you remember the beginning of contact, where, you know, the radio and TV signals were slowly fading as they pulled back and pulled back and pulled back, that was a perfect demo, because, you know, it's a matter of energy and distance, and over distance, energy depletes, right?
	Well, it just simply gets, yeah, anything gets fainter the farther away from it you are.
	I mean, you take a look at the stars, right, they don't blind you, but if you were up close to them, as close to them as you are to the sun, for example, you certainly couldn't look at them.
	So, it's exactly the same for radio.
	The farther away the transmitter is, the weaker the signals are.
	It isn't that something is deliberately weakening the signals, it's just the distance, it's just geometry that's weakening them.
	Yes.
	I get it.
	Is it fair to say that as we look at the star today, we are looking back in time about 1,500 years.
	In other words, whatever was going on, or is going on, on that star happened, as we see it now, 1,500 years ago.
	Yes, that's certainly the case.
	I mean, that's one of the nifty things about astronomy in general.
	You're always looking at the past.
	Even when you look at the moon, You're looking at it not the way it is now, but the way it was a second and a half ago, when the light left it.
	It probably hasn't changed a whole lot in the interim.
	And 1,500 years, the distance to this star, KIC 8462852, that's such an awkward name.
	Maybe we ought to just call it, you know, Tabby's Star.
	Some people have done that.
	How about them?
	You could call them them.
	Maybe call them Rodney.
	I don't care.
	Call it Bob.
	It's all okay.
	But indeed, Anything you see going on there is something that happened 1,500 years ago, and, you know, maybe things are different there now, but that's always the case with astronomy.
	You're always looking in the past.
	All right.
	Well, if the Dyson sphere thing is right, and of course it's just, you know, theoretical, I understand that, but should that actually be the case, then they were manipulating the power of the star 1,500 years ago, And when you look at our rate of increase technologically in the last 50 years, say, and project 1,500 years out, gee, they must be wizards by now.
	Well, you know, indeed, in 1,500 years we've gone from, I don't know, bows and arrows to something a little more powerful.
	I'm sure that if they're still around, if, to begin with, if there's anybody there, if this is really Right.
	So we would imagine them to be 1500 years advanced from that theoretical place they were in when they started harnessing a star?
	or they were wiped out before we even made these observations, before that light even left there.
	Yeah, I mean, you're looking at their history, you're not looking at their present.
	Right. So we would imagine them to be 1,500 years advanced from that theoretical place they were in when they started
	harnessing a star.
	Yes.
	Yes.
	I know, okay.
	Now, again, I wonder if you've heard any of this, Seth, that from inside NASA, really, I'm getting these very good leads and these links saying, Seth, they're looking, NASA's looking at all of this data, and they're beginning to come to the same conclusion, that there's nothing left to say except the A word.
	Well, I haven't seen that, and of course we have pretty good contacts with NASA all the time.
	Yeah, but you've been sick, right?
	Well, yeah, although I was in the office today, I can tell you that.
	But a couple of things.
	To begin with, in order to see these dips in the light coming from the star and that's what this
	story is all about.
	It's just a star, it's a little bit bigger than the sun, it's the sun's, if you will,
	bigger older brother. It's 50% larger than the sun so it's maybe four or five times brighter
	than the sun. Anyhow, in order to see anything happening to that star, such as these big dips
	in its brightness, this dimming, you need a telescope that can measure the brightness of the
	star and measure it every minute or more often. That was the Kepler Space Telescope.
	Yeah, it was broken.
	I'm sorry?
	Well, it's broken.
	You know, one of its stabilizing gyroscopes, if you will, failed more than a year ago now, and so it's in a completely different mode now, and it's not really able to look at this.
	So, when you say, hey, there's new data suggesting that this is good evidence for an alien civilization, I don't know where those data could come from, because this is something you really can't do from the ground.
	Too easily, although these dips are so big, maybe you could, but I'm not aware of any new data.
	I should point out, I don't want to rain on the parade here, but if you look at the paper that announced these dips, and you know it was just published a week or two ago.
	You can't rain on our parade, we already know it's aliens.
	I know you do!
	I just want to point out that the guys who wrote this paper didn't ever in there mention the possibility that this was anything other than natural phenomena.
	And that's important to keep in mind because some people will remember back in the 1960s some astronomers in England found a pulsing radio source in the sky Which they, you know, immediately termed Little Green Men.
	Wait a minute now, wait a minute.
	The guy at Penn State, I shouldn't say the guy, the astronomer at Penn State, he's the one who said alien megastructures.
	Yeah, that's in a separate paper, but the Discovery paper doesn't say anything about that.
	The Discovery paper has a long laundry list of Possible explanations, yeah, for, you know, what's going on here.
	And they're all, you know, natural.
	Look, nobody knows what it is.
	It isn't to say it couldn't be alien megastructures.
	But on the other hand, that's, you know, I don't know any astronomers who would say that's the favored explanation, because there's a long, long history In which you come across something you don't understand right away, and the first reaction is always to say, you know, Bob, I don't know what that is, so it must be aliens.
	Oh, geez, Seth, I don't know.
	These are, you know, one of them is an astronomer, and the other's the one who, Jason Wright, also an astronomer, he's the one who said that, those words, and Tabitha Boyajian, I believe it is, she was the one who came up with all the data.
	They are saying that they virtually have knocked down every, that list you talked about, they've kind of scratched everything off, except maybe a comet swarm, and the odds of that are 5, they say, in 10,000 or something like that.
	Yeah, did they give the odds for it being an alien megastructure?
	No.
	Okay, well... If I could interview them, I would ask them that.
	Yeah, alright.
	Well, look, I think that we can, you know, kick this around for a while.
	No, no, no, I don't want to keep it that long.
	One more, because I want to enlarge on the question I asked about the radio signals, and that is your chance of actually hearing anything.
	Because radio is so attenuated, as it goes across light years and light years, What are the chances of us actually, even if they are aliens, Seth, hearing anything by radio?
	Well, it's hard to say.
	I don't think they're good.
	As you pointed out, 1,500 light years away, typically, when we do our SETI experiments, when we're trying to eavesdrop on alien transmitters, We're looking at stars that are, you know, often 100 times closer than that.
	Well, 100 times closer means the signals would be 10,000 times stronger.
	Okay, so if they're broadcasting radio, the only way we're going to hear them, I mean, if there's anybody there, let me preface things with that, but if this is really the evidence of some sort of society there, the only way we would hear the signals is if A, They have really powerful transmitters, and you know, who's to say what they've got?
	I mean, it doesn't violate physics for them to have really powerful transmitters.
	That's true.
	They'd have to have transmitters if they're broadcasting in all directions, you know.
	They don't know where receivers might be.
	If they were broadcasting in all directions, they would need transmitters on the order of 10 trillion watts.
	Trillion watts for us to Yeah, pick up with the Allen Telescope Array, so that's a lot.
	But on the other hand, if they're building a big megastructure, a big Dyson swarm of solar power collectors, you know, they've got the 10 trillion watts, so that's one possibility.
	The other possibility is if for some reason, and I can't think of any, for some reason they're directing their radio signals toward us.
	That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me because, you know, what's special about us?
	Nothing.
	In fact, if they were looking back at us, they would see us Uh, that long ago, 1,500 years ago, right?
	Exactly right.
	And they wouldn't be all impressed with our technology at that point, so... Well, they wouldn't be able to detect our technology.
	That's right, because it wasn't here yet.
	You know, jousting contests and stuff like that.
	You know, that's not the kind of information that makes its way across space.
	Right.
	Next planet, please.
	I'm sure that's right.
	Anyway, so here it is.
	If they are using the kind of power that you talked about, harnessing the sun, it seems to me they're doing something that would make a lot of electromagnetic noise.
	Now, I could be wrong about that, but if you detected a bigger noise floor, a bigger noise level, As opposed to when you pull away from that star, compared to everything else, that would be something, wouldn't it?
	Yes, it would.
	That's exactly what you look for, too, by the way.
	What you do is you essentially look at a big chunk of the radio dial, as much as you can, and you say, hey, look, over this range of frequencies, there's more, if you will, cosmic static coming in.
	It's not a matter of saying, you know, what are they saying?
	Are they tapping out Morse code or anything like that?
	It's just you're saying, somebody's got a transmitter there.
	So they're making more radio energy, more power in a particular spot on the radio dial.
	If you found that, you would say, that's not natural.
	That's somebody with a transmitter.
	Well, you remember the old Spark days, right?
	I do.
	So, if they were doing something producing a big electromagnetic signature, would that have, you know, that might make big noise, and it might be possible to just look at it and say, gee, that's a high noise level.
	Why would that be?
	Well, you could do that.
	The old spark transmitters, which I think you're referring to here, more than a hundred years ago, they're the very earliest radio transmitters in the 1890s and so forth.
	They did make radio waves, and they made radio waves that made noise all over the band, just the way a bolt of lightning does.
	But, as soon as you learn a little bit about, you know, radio engineering, you stop doing that, because you're paying for all those kilowatt hours to make signals that are all over the dial, whereas, in fact, you want them at a specific Point on the dial, because you get more information that way.
	So, you know, I don't think that they're using spark transmitters, but of course, you know, they didn't send me any email about what they're using, if they're using anything at all.
	Right, so what I'm getting at here is, even if we don't get a specific signal, as it were, and we may or may not, who knows, but an increased noise flirt might indicate an active civilization doing God knows what.
	Yes.
	And that's exactly what's motivated us.
	Look, you know, I'm happy to bet you a bad lunch, Art, that this is going to turn out to be something completely natural.
	But on the other hand, and I think we're all in agreement on this, it's very intriguing.
	And doggone it, you don't just dismiss it and say, well, yeah, intriguing.
	But meanwhile, I'm going back to what I was doing.
	We are spending time on the Allen Telescope Array.
	We also have a small optical experiment down in Panama that is looking for flashing light as opposed to radio waves.
	And, you know, even though it might be improbable that they have a transmitter powerful enough for us to detect, you don't know until you look.
	That's what, you know, astronomy is usually about.
	If you don't use the telescopes and don't look for something, you're not going to discover anything.
	I would take it a lot of people's telescope time got, I don't know what the word would be, put off until much later because of this?
	Well, I don't know what a lot means, but it is certainly the case for us.
	I mean, just to give us an example, because I know about us.
	We normally are using the Allen Telescope Array to survey nearby star systems that we think, okay, these are good candidates for possibly having habitable planets.
	Well, obviously, we put that on hold.
	I mean, those guys, it's time out for that.
	And we have spent most of the past 10, 12 days looking over and over again, by the way, over the wide range of frequencies that we can tune to with our antennas.
	And at the moment, the data are being reduced.
	I figured that within a week, those data will be online and everybody can take a look.
	And I'll be your first call, right?
	Okay.
	Okay.
	Is that like yes?
	Well, of course.
	Of course.
	All right.
	All right.
	Seth, I want to thank you for being here tonight.
	You're a great guy.
	You really are.
	You're one of the world's great guys.
	So thank you for updating us and keep listening.
	Okay.
	All right.
	Thanks very much.
	Take care, my friend.
	That's Seth Shostak.
	Really, it's always been an awful lot of fun, a lot of fun to interview, a lot of fun to talk to, and doing very, very, very important work.
	So, let's see.
	Now, let's see.
	Okay.
	So, let me do this and this.
	See, I'm in here all alone.
	I have to be very careful what I'm doing because I'm the only one doing it.
	Let's look at a little bit of other news.
	Uh, we've got a guest coming up, so stand by for that.
	This is the beginning of Dead Air Week.
	That's what I'm gonna call it.
	Dead Air Week.
	It will culminate on Friday with a show that's gonna scare the... out of ya.
	Okay?
	Really will.
	But every day this week we're going to be off into the world Well, the other world, right?
	And so tonight, we've got Dr. Michael Lynch, and he studies ghosts.
	So, you're not going to want to miss that.
	Coming up, just a few things I need to get in here, and then, sorry for the long opening, but that's the way it goes.
	I am now to understand that bacon hot dogs and cold cuts are no good for you, cause cancer.
	So here we go again.
	I remember when it was coffee.
	But now's meat.
	They even showed pictures of burgers.
	Don't you take my burgers away.
	Vegetarians are feeling vindicated.
	Skinny little people out there.
	Feeling vindicated.
	We're right!
	The meat is bad!
	I don't know.
	Others say they doubt the study, but there you go.
	First item on the NBC News tonight.
	Meat's gonna kill you.
	Well, I'm already 70.
	So, I'm going to take my chances.
	I've always enjoyed my meat.
	That's not going to change.
	Listen, something is going on I want to make you aware of because it's dangerous.
	Russian submarines and spy ships are now aggressively operating near the vital undersea cables that carry Almost all the global internet communications from point A to B to C and so forth and so on, you have no idea there are.
	You could go around the world many times if you put those cables together.
	They are vital to the internet.
	And Russian subs, Russian ships, are now hovering over these points.
	Maybe it's some kind of Russian exercise.
	Maybe they want to tap our lines.
	And God, I hope they don't want to cut our lines.
	So, know that that's going on.
	This warm period since the decline and fall of the Soviet Union really is beginning to cool off a lot.
	And of course, we're sending a carrier into the area of the Chinese self-made islands.
	And that's probably going to be okay, but if it goes wrong, it goes really wrong.
	If they shoot at us, well, that would be really bad.
	So... That worries me.
	It scares me.
	It really, really scares me.
	More than the meat.
	It scares me.
	You know, what are they... Why are they doing this?
	They just want to annoy us?
	Or what?
	I don't get it.
	Alright, so, a lot to see at Artbell.com tonight.
	I know my guest, Dr. Michael Lynch, is going to disagree with me.
	You may remember I had an experience with a shadow person, right?
	Well, a fellow named Tyler has sent me a photograph that I consider to be a shadow person.
	I think my guest is going to try and explain to me it's not.
	It's watermarks or something.
	But to me, this looks like a shadow person.
	It's a hell of a photograph.
	I don't think it's photoshopped.
	I've looked at it pretty carefully.
	I don't see marks of that.
	Keith looked at it and said, wow, he didn't either.
	So, I want to call your attention to it.
	I want you to actually go to Artbell.com and take a look at that.
	In addition, there are so many things that you need to look at.
	The full story on the star we've been talking about is up there.
	There are stories about quantum computing up there.
	And then there is the story of the city.
	This is the damnedest story in China.
	I remember one night somebody called up and said, hey Art, have you seen the photograph of the city in the clouds in China?
	I said, no.
	I don't generally imagine cities to be in the clouds, but they've got video.
	I guess thousands of people saw it, and yes, they've got a photograph.
	In fact, they've got video of a city, or what looks like a city, In the clouds!
	It was a short-appearing phenomena.
	They think they might have an explanation for it.
	Could be a ship on the high seas reflected to the clouds, but man, it looks like a city to me!
	So that's another reason for you to go to Artbell.com.
	Follow the story.
	See the video if you wish, if you dare.
	It's going to be a very scary week this week.
	In fact, It's going to be kind of building and building and building and then, as I mentioned on Friday, on Friday, we're going to do you in.
	We should call the whole week Dead Air Week on Midnight in the Desert.
	I'm Art Bell.
	Don't touch that dial.
	I figured this would be good for KABC's first night.
	What do you think?
	Midnight in the Desert doesn't scream calls.
	We trust you.
	But remember, the NSA... Well, you know.
	To call the show, please dial 1-952-225-5278.
	That's 1-952-CALL-ART.
	That's it.
	Don't call yet.
	225-5278. That's 1952. Call Art. That's it. Don't call yet.
	We are actually just beginning with our guest. Michael Lynch, PhD, has been a parapsychologist
	for 27 years.
	Throughout his career, he has investigated ghosts, poltergeist activity, UFOs, and ancient civilizations.
	That's a lot to take on.
	Dr. Lynch uses a digital infrared video system and the latest technology to capture evidence of the paranormal.
	Now, over the past 14 years, he has hosted Paranormal Tuesday at 97.1 FM in St.
	Louis, has been on the Discovery Channel, Syfy, Fox, Family, ABC Family, Destination America Channel, the National Geographic Channel, appearing on shows like Scariest Places on Earth, MTV Fear, and Is It Real?
	He has also appeared in Shadow Worlds, The Haunted Boy, Children of the Grave 2, and the Soulcatcher documentaries.
	Here he is.
	Welcome, Doctor, to Midnight in the Desert.
	Yes.
	It's time for the gathering gloom.
	Lights fade from every room.
	Yes, yes, yes, yes.
	It's great to have you.
	Have we ever talked before?
	We have not talked.
	But one time, many years ago, you had a substitute and I was on your program with the replacement.
	We talked at that time.
	You were on vacation or something.
	I forgot what it was.
	But anyway, you had a substitute fill in and that's when I was on your program.
	So I was lost in your Rolodex or your mainframe for many years until Heather found me and reactivated me.
	I'm like the sleeper cell of the paranormal, you might say.
	Heather is quite a sweetie, isn't she?
	She is wonderful.
	Give her a raise whenever you can.
	Like the rest of your staff, I think they're incredible staff.
	She told you to say that, right?
	Yes, she actually paid me.
	No, I'm just kidding.
	She is a sweetie.
	And so, yeah, let's talk Halloween.
	I think that's the direction you want to go.
	Oh, it is.
	Well, I mean, ghosts and Halloween seem to go together, right?
	Yeah.
	Sure.
	Okay, you've been investigating for a very long time.
	27 years, that's a long time, Doctor.
	Yeah.
	It was in the early 90s we got started.
	Why?
	we got started and why there was why good question oh yes I do know why
	Why?
	I'm sorry.
	I'm getting so old now, I can't remember how I got started in this field.
	I was at a used bookstore and there was a book by Lloyd Auerbach.
	It was like, How to Investigate Ghosts or something like that.
	I forgot exactly.
	He wrote a couple of chapters on some of his older cases and some of the methods he used.
	I read that book.
	I sit back and I thought, you know, why is it that no one really, you know, like jumps the fence and looks into this a little bit more?
	You know, Barry Taft had done the Entity Case, very popular.
	Lloyd Auerbach came out, published several books.
	Bill Roll came out, did several television documentaries.
	There are several guys in the East Coast that have come out and have been studying for a Um, they just didn't have the equipment at the time, I guess.
	And then about 93, 94, um, the Russian military, the Russia went bankrupt.
	And, uh, so there was a whole new plethora of, uh, infrared equipment suddenly flooded certain markets.
	And I had a friend who could access those markets and we started looking at that technology.
	It wasn't until another three more years until we actually developed a lighting system that would go with a certain type of camera that we could actually start seeing what we saw was energy plasma.
	A plasma form of energy.
	And then as the cameras became higher and higher resolution, we're up to 700 lines, almost HD, we can now see these things very clearly with the proper lights.
	I think you're talking about orbs, right?
	And we can see these things now as clear as possible.
	Now we cannot see them with the human eye because our equipment, even though it can go
	into UV, we go toward the infrared.
	I think you're talking about orbs, right?
	Yes. Well, not only orbs.
	No. We're talking about a lot of variety of things.
	Okay.
	And that's where we're going to go.
	Now orbs are generally 90, I'm going to say 90%, 80% of basic consciousness in its basic state
	because it has to meet some type of three-dimensional standard.
	And that term orb or globe has been around for a long time.
	Dave Oyster coined that phrase.
	We just kept it.
	And so the orb is a three-dimensional sphere.
	And the sphere is basically energy in a wave packet.
	It's a packet of energy.
	Alright, Doctor.
	So you and I are going to tangle a little bit on orbs, I think.
	Or maybe not.
	Maybe you can prove to me that I'm wrong.
	Let's back up.
	How do you know, or do you know, that ghosts are real?
	And let's define it so that we know what we're talking about.
	When I say ghost, I mean An entity that has once been alive as a human being and is now presenting itself in a different form.
	That is what I mean by ghost.
	Right, right.
	Now, a ghost, how do we know that it is real?
	Because it has an energy signature that reveals itself.
	And that is what we're after.
	A 10 watt light bulb has a glow signature similar to 100, but we can tell by the basic density of the light that it is a different type of entity.
	A lot of this deals with energy.
	It is energy signature.
	It is a plasma form.
	I get it.
	I really get it.
	I mean, you're saying that these things, whatever they are, present themselves as energy, and that does make sense.
	We have energy in life.
	Our brains contain energy, and people think it continues.
	And you're saying, oh, yes, it does, and that's what these are.
	But I just wonder how you prove it.
	Okay.
	Now, okay.
	Because this is how we prove it.
	Not only can we see them, we can analyze them, but the idea is that what is so unique about a ghost is that it never forgets.
	It maintains a memory and it normally remembers its last form.
	So if you get a full-bodied apparition or even a cloudy apparition, it will start to reform until what it remembered its body last.
	And so one minute you'll have a three-dimensional man standing there.
	The next minute you have a cloud and it just seems to swoosh into another area.
	It reforms as a man.
	Have you personally seen this?
	Oh, yeah.
	Yes.
	Yes.
	In other words, you've seen something go from an energy state, whatever that is, a cloud, an orb or whatever, and form into the image of a human being.
	Human being.
	Now, again, there is another side to this, which we'll get into maybe a little bit later, but not all orbs are humans and not all ghosts are from this planet.
	You know, there are entities that are animals and then there are entities that are just
	misplaced. Totally, I'm completely willing to buy into that.
	I think that our animals that animals, let me rephrase it,
	I think animals have souls if we do.
	You buy that?
	Yeah, all mammals as far as we know because of a rapid eye movement and memory all mammals and maybe some birds
	We just anticipate that they have an afterlife.
	There is an afterlife for them.
	Now, what do they remember?
	They remember that they were a dog, and so their memory is that of a dog.
	I investigated a house, and this was just basic, you know, average neighbor house, and they had a dog, and the dog died.
	But, days after the dog died, they still heard the footprints, or the nails of the The feet of the dog clamber around on their kitchen tile.
	Yeah.
	And so they knew their dog was still there.
	I had another friend who had a cat and this cat was very old, outlived most of the others, you know, cats by the longevity was just, you know, extreme.
	That cat died.
	And then suddenly the owner, maybe this is a phantom memory, but actually heard the cat Oh, listen, I could fill the phones with people telling you about experiences like that.
	Oh, yeah.
	I was at a house.
	We were investigating.
	We were actually doing a little documentary on the exorcist case that was here in St.
	Louis.
	And the house we were actually filming in was haunted.
	We were kind of doing a little two-sided documentary.
	One was to investigate the haunting of this house.
	And then also extend it into another chapter, which was the exorcist that went on in St.
	Louis.
	Well, anyway, while we were videotaping, while we're filming, we hear this knock on the door.
	And I'm thinking it's the audio guy who's outside and, you know, he was smoking a cigarette.
	He's going to come back in.
	Well, we reach over and open the door.
	There is no one, no one there.
	It is all on camera.
	We recorded it, and it's all on camera.
	And this was not an echo.
	This was not a car backfiring.
	This was not an aberration of any type, because six people heard it.
	We recorded it.
	We opened the door.
	There was absolutely nothing there.
	You know, I have case after case like this.
	Toys move.
	Anything electrical comes on.
	Lights flicker.
	It just goes on and on with electrical problems in the house, with the computer, with wireless communications.
	We actually got to the point to where we took a voltmeter.
	Now this is just a basic voltmeter.
	I know what it is.
	And you put it on millivolts, DC millivolts.
	Right.
	And we would put up the little antennas and these things would go to 100, 200 millivolts.
	So this was electrons in the atmosphere that had been activated.
	Now when we turn on our video equipment, when we got that perfected, we could see these Balls of energy, these orbs, flying by our electronic equipment, and it was giving us an electron output.
	So that means this energy is buffering, or it's flying through the air, but it has to move through electrons.
	Electrons don't pass through it.
	Alright, so you could actually monitor on your equipment, as something got closer, you registered higher, that kind of thing.
	Exactly.
	And then it moved away again.
	Okay, before we get any further, you have sent some disturbing photographs.
	Right.
	And I presume what we're talking about relates in some way to those, right?
	Exactly.
	Alright, so folks, I want to have you right now, if you haven't done it already, go to Artbell.com, click on my guest's picture.
	By the way, people have commented, Doctor, that it is a kind of an eerie looking picture of you.
	I did a series of eerie looking pictures and several things.
	So, I sent Heather a few different ones and that's the one she liked.
	I see.
	Alright.
	Well, I like it too, by the way, and a lot of people thought it was over the top serious, but I think it's cool.
	Alright, so these are really serious photographs.
	Again, go to artbell.com, click on his picture.
	This will take you to a series of, what is it, four photographs?
	One, two, three, four, five.
	All right.
	I want to give them a chance to get there before we get the story behind this.
	Right.
	What are these photographs?
	I mean, I'm trying to give them time.
	Tell me the story that involves the photographs they're about to see.
	Yeah, let me back up.
	Every year, the radio station that I have my segment on does a Halloween special and they pick, you know, listeners call in and say, oh, my house is haunted or this place is haunted.
	Let's go investigate it.
	Right.
	Well, in this situation, we had a house which was totally modern, built only a few years ago, but was infested with entities.
	And there was some people that lived in the house and there was a little girl that lived in the house and she kept talking about her grandmother.
	Her mother knew that her grandmother was dead.
	And this little girl kept talking about an elderly woman coming to the house and saying that she was her grandmother.
	Well, this frightened the entire Well, we get there and there is what we call a soul collector.
	Well, 97.1 FM thought this would be a good investigation, you know, modern house, there
	shouldn't be anything there.
	Sure, sure.
	Well, we get there and there is what we call a soul collector.
	What, what?
	And this is a soul collector.
	This is an individual that goes around and collects lost souls and tries to keep them
	in a certain area.
	What?
	Yes.
	That's a soul catcher.
	Our soul catcher.
	We call them collectors because they have to use some form of intimidation to keep these souls together.
	And they don't really capture them, they just eat them.
	Holy mackerel.
	Hold on.
	A soul catcher.
	A soul collector.
	Whatever.
	This is an individual.
	Who's human.
	Who's dead.
	Who works in the same field.
	Parapsychology, right?
	No, no.
	They're dead.
	What?
	You're not getting them.
	Really?
	Yeah.
	They're dead.
	The soul collectors are dead?
	Are dead.
	Yes.
	Then how did you know that you suddenly had walked into the presence of a soul collector?
	Well, we caught her voice, this elderly woman's voice, on an EVP on our recording equipment.
	Really?
	Because we were doing a show, you see, for radio.
	And the audio guy is sitting there with the best brand new equipment that radio can afford.
	Yes.
	And we're standing in a circle in the living room and we are debating our next point of strategy, which was probably not a good idea that we should do.
	And in the background, you hear an elderly woman's voice as clear as day, as if she's standing right there in the middle of us.
	Yes.
	And she says in a very elderly voice, she says, no, I don't want you to do that.
	Go downstairs.
	Now, she says that is clear, but she's not talking to us, even though we're talking about going back downstairs and doing another invest, you know, a full blown investigation with video equipment, audio equipment, still photography and things like that.
	So, so she is talking to another entity.
	She is talking to another entity while we're talking about going back down and rethinking our strategy.
	Was this EVP recorded?
	Yes, yes it was.
	It's on the Dave Glover 97.1 website.
	He has reactivated all of our past investigations.
	And we have all the EVPs there.
	You may have to scroll around a little.
	Oh, man, you really, really should have told me about this before airtime.
	I'm sorry.
	Yeah, I'm sorry.
	That's all right.
	Next time.
	We do EVPs on this program, and it's a whole separate category.
	I'd love to talk to you about it sometime.
	I think it is perhaps the best evidence for ghosts, frankly, if it's done right.
	Yeah.
	A lot of people say that.
	A lot of people say, you know, EVPs, you know, and so what we, so what it is Art, is that, okay, I'm working with this radio station and they have the best equipment possible.
	They're recording, you know, live conversation and we decide to go back downstairs.
	We do not hear this lady's voice until later.
	So what happens is we go, we go back downstairs and the entities follow us.
	Now, Um, one of the radio talk show hosts are just standing there.
	He's not doing anything.
	He's up against the wall.
	Um, we are now going back down.
	I'm taking still photography.
	These are all my photos.
	So I'm taking still photography as we go through the basement.
	And then suddenly he goes, My arm is... Wait a minute, wait a minute.
	We're up against a very brief break here.
	I'm sorry.
	No, no.
	You got just the right point.
	We'll hold it right there.
	Suddenly, something really awful happens.
	And we've got video evidence of that at my website.
	Do what I said.
	Go to artbell.com.
	Click on the guest I have for tonight and start looking at the photographs immediately below.
	It's a great week.
	This week, dead air.
	Take a walk on the wild side of midnight.
	From the Kingdom of Nigh, this is Midnight in the Desert with Art Bell.
	Please call the show at 1-952-225-5278.
	That's 1-952.
	Call Art.
	See?
	I can't even wait.
	fifty two seventy eight line nine five two recall art seems can't even wait my guest is uh... dr michael lynch
	and he's been investigating the paranormal for twenty seven
	years so he should know what he's talking about and uh... he was
	just telling us about
	this series of photographs that i'm telling you right now you can see it our boulder
	com I wouldn't direct you up there for, I don't know, just any little old thing.
	I just wouldn't.
	You need to see these.
	Go to my website, click on his photograph, and then the four photographs it will lead you to.
	Doctor welcome back and so you said suddenly and I think that's where we broke.
	Suddenly this gentleman looks down at his arm and he says my arm is on fire.
	It is just burning and we pull back his sleeve and my colleague who's a registered nurse and also a psychic Looked at the wounds.
	And so we saw the scratches appear almost before our eyes.
	There were 17 claw marks, scratches, and they were from the inside out.
	So underneath his dermis, his dermal layer, his skin layer, there was some type of hemorrhaging.
	And then they pierced through the dermal layers.
	And then they look like scratches.
	They sure do.
	OK, now, OK, if you're a skeptic, you can say, oh, yes, he took a paperclip and he scratched himself and it was just something for the show.
	Oh, no.
	No, this is not the case.
	As soon as the burning since we actually took him upstairs and he went into shock almost immediately and it took three weeks For most of those scratches to heal.
	Now, this is not the first time one of the people in the group have been attacked.
	Actually, this gentleman was attacked at another investigation, almost strangled.
	And there were handprints on his throat from the attempt of strangulation.
	I was also in another investigation where one of my former partners, um, we saw the entity on video.
	It flew right by him and his, he, then he goes, something's wrong with my shoulder.
	Alright, well, we skipped right down to that photograph, whatever.
	I don't want to do that, because if you go a little bit higher, folks, you'll see the setup.
	You'll see the guy standing there, and you'll see... Well, Doctor, what is it that's in the first picture adjacent to him, please?
	In the first picture, there's probably some orbs, and they're in a digital, what we call a digital echo.
	Meaning the orb is moving so fast that it leaves its footprint throughout the photo.
	And let me pull that up real quick.
	Looks like it's near his hand, actually, at that point.
	Right, exactly.
	Now this is probably the same entity.
	You see it three times because it's a digital echo.
	It's just moving toward him.
	He's looking down at his hand in the first photograph because this orb, I don't I know we agree to disagree, um, is attacking him under or through his clothes.
	And, uh, you zoom in, I zoomed in on the orb to make sure that it was a solid structure, and then he pulls back his sleeve, and he has these scratches.
	Alright, Doctor, you were, these photographs came, you took them.
	They were taken by a still camera, right?
	Yes, a still camera.
	A still camera, okay.
	Yeah.
	Could you see, when you took these photographs, what we are seeing now on them?
	Oh, yes.
	Oh, yeah.
	Oh, yeah.
	As soon as the... It's a digital camera, so as soon as you take the photograph, you see it pop up on the rear view screen.
	No, I meant with your naked eye.
	Oh, no.
	No, no.
	You can't.
	Okay.
	You can't.
	All right.
	All right.
	So, this must have... It must have occurred within seconds, I would presume, right?
	Yeah.
	Alright, the next photograph down, you see this... I must admit, it is unlike anything I've ever seen.
	The orbs that I've talked about in the past that I kind of don't believe in so much are these just single points of light, but what you've got here... There's a construction to this thing.
	I don't know what it is, but... Correct, yeah.
	It's a three-dimensional object just being squished into a two-dimensional surface, but Whatever shape it took, and whatever shape it took, it could scratch individual marks on this gentleman.
	In the next photograph it's even brighter, or else you enhanced it.
	I enhanced it a little bit just to show that it was right on top, or next to his arm, right in front of him, right on his arm.
	I don't want to ignore this.
	There's structure.
	There is structure to this thing.
	Absolutely.
	I don't know what that structure means, but there's something there.
	There is something here.
	This is, you know, a lot of people say they see faces, they see this, and that's just a Rorschach test.
	We commonly see that.
	But what's really here is some type of three-dimensional ball of plasma.
	And the plasma has the ability to attack and scratch or maul The person.
	So did he begin to feel this doctor instantly?
	Not instantly.
	It was something like a warm, burning sensation.
	So, you know, the excitement of the moment, we're doing a radio show, and then all of a sudden it became very painful.
	Sure.
	Like it went from a warm electric pad, you know, to all of a sudden there's intense pain.
	And then we pull back his sleeve.
	I totally get it.
	Looking at that arm, my God.
	Yeah.
	So what is unique is that Dust Flakes, Dust Specs, don't scratch.
	And they sure don't leave EVPs on your recording equipment.
	No.
	So something with human voice and human intelligence defending its space or just not very friendly attack this gentleman and with no provocation there was no forewarning and he did not provoke anything that was there he was just like in the way I guess no wise remarks or cracks nothing no no and he is the nicest gentleman you ever want to meet he would you know go the extra mile for anyone
	He's just that kind of guy, and he seems to be the one being attacked.
	Now, I'm doing this, I've been doing this, crossing my fingers, a long time.
	I've never been attacked.
	Maybe it's just because I haven't been in the way.
	Or that, you know, whatever it was just kind of left me alone for reasons.
	But, whatever this plasma is, If it's consciousness, human consciousness, it has the ability to affect our world.
	Now, during that investigation, there was something to do with a Barbie doll.
	Okay?
	It was the little girl's Barbie doll.
	She kept it with her all the time.
	Well, we set it up as like a trap or something.
	Not a trap, but we put it out to see if it would move or these entities would do anything with it.
	Yes.
	Well, while we're setting this up on a little table, Uh, with some of the other toys that a little girl would play with, all of a sudden, we hear, on EVP, a growl.
	And this is like, a deep, big dog kind of growl.
	Oh man, you should have brought the... You don't even know where it came from.
	Okay, and then the next thing we know, the Barbie doll disappears.
	Seriously?
	Yeah, it disappears.
	Okay, so...
	Everybody goes, this is madness because we were just in that room.
	There's no way this Barbie doll could disappear.
	It's the closest object to the little girl.
	All the other toys, we brought them and set them up.
	We searched the entire house, find it in a closet like back in the back on the top shelf of this empty closet.
	So this thing, these things, Can move objects, manipulate matter, can scratch or manipulate the human body.
	Obviously.
	And can put people into states of shock.
	Okay, I have a question for you, again regarding these photographs.
	Since you were taking the pictures, how much time between snaps was there to capture what you captured?
	As soon as the flash could recharge.
	It was just like one second, two seconds, one second, two seconds.
	As fast as the flash could recharge.
	There is a series of cameras which we use.
	It's a Canon class.
	It's called the sports shot or SP30, SP40, SP50.
	SP30, SP40, and SP50, we use those and those have the best flash for them.
	After that series, the encoded chip started to change and they started not to produce
	these anomalies because the flash on the cameras changed.
	That's interesting.
	What is it in that camera, or that flash, that allows you to see what is not seen on later models?
	Yes, it is because, uniquely, they put out what we call an infrared.
	There was an infrared halogen scenario in the flash.
	So there was a yellow cast to some of the photos.
	A lot of people didn't like that, so they took out the halogen and put in what we call the blue light.
	I get it.
	And so you didn't get the red eye problem, so they put in a blue light.
	So a lot of your stuff, like your iPhones today, have an LED, but it's on the bluer, it's on the UV side.
	Right.
	Not on the halogen infrared.
	Right.
	The bluer is a little bit more pleasing to the eye, actually.
	To me.
	To me.
	But obviously it doesn't capture this, and so this is really important information.
	There's a lot of people out there In this field, who are saying to themselves, well, then I need one of those.
	Where do they find them?
	Go to eBay.
	You get them for about ten bucks.
	They're older technology.
	Ten bucks?
	Yeah, ten bucks.
	I bought one off of eBay the other day for ten bucks and some shipping costs.
	People are just, like, throwing this stuff away.
	Okay, and the model again, please?
	It's the SP-30 Canon, and it's the digital camera.
	Well, I've got a couple laying around here somewhere.
	How many megapixels do you know?
	It's five.
	Okay, that's good.
	It's not necessarily HD that everybody wants.
	Now they want 12 to 32 or 16 or whatever.
	No, but it's the uniqueness of the flash associated with this camera.
	Exactly.
	Exactly.
	Now, if you do capture an orb, okay, it will have what we call a digital echo because the orb is moving.
	It's moving.
	So, the digital camera can't make a blurry picture, technically.
	Technically, it's designed not to make a blurry picture, but on a speeding object that's moving incredibly fast and burning through electrons in the air, the camera, through the flash, absorbs the flash, and then what it sees is this multitude of digital echoes.
	So, I have this friend, he's over in Kansas City, and he goes, You know, every time I take a picture in a haunted house, I get this dust and it's just all over and I go, dude, that's like, there's not 40 ghosts there, but there's like five and you can actually blow them up and look at their unique signature or their thumbprint and we can see it by eliminating through contrast and brightness, not through
	Any other form, just by contrast and brightness, we can actually see which is an echo and which is a solid form, because we're looking at its density, its opacity of brightness.
	The less bright it is, the more the echo it is.
	And you can see them in different sizes, shapes, structures, contours.
	That's why the anatomy of these things are so unique.
	And once you recognize it, and recognize that it's interacting with you, Then we're not in Kansas anymore.
	Okay, Doctor, so are you suggesting what we're looking at here, in the third picture down or so, the one in hands, is a soul?
	This was once a human being.
	It is a soul, or the energy, what's left of that person?
	No, it maintains its identity.
	Remember, you can't have consciousness without memory.
	Memory requires A form of energy, right?
	So whatever this was knew how to scratch and it knew how to attack.
	So the memory may not be, let's say the memory is of someone who's just not very pleasant.
	A bully.
	Let's just say a bully.
	Well that bully dies.
	It's still a bully.
	Well, that was another area I was going to go.
	I've had countless people come on, including EVP researchers, who say, look, whatever you were in life, if you're on the other side, you're the same thing.
	If you were a grouch and a mean person, you're a grouchy, mean ghost.
	Yes, yes, yes.
	Odors and smells go along with some of this.
	Some people are notorious smokers and when they die people smell the pipe smoke or the cigarette smoke or cigar smoke still in that same area.
	Odors go along with this as well as everything else and like I said in 2000 we really 2001 we kind of broke the barrier and after that we started to realize These things are real, they're large and in charge.
	Doctor, imagine for a second a smoker who dies and then becomes an orb as we're seeing here and you know on the other side there's no cigarettes so that orb is going to be ticked off.
	No, because let me tell you a little secret about quantum energy.
	Only the human consciousness can control, or a consciousness with 20,000 genes, human consciousness can control quantum fabric.
	So if you're over there, all you have to do is imagine a cigarette and you're smoking again.
	And the memory of the smoke becomes real.
	I find that in a perverted way comforting.
	Yes, here's another thing.
	I was over in England, and there's a couple of researchers over in England, and they sit down and they go, here, Mike, listen to this.
	And I go, OK.
	And they turn on this tape recorder.
	And I'm listening to footsteps, boom, like boots on wooden floors.
	There's a couple of castles over in Europe.
	And they go, there was nobody there.
	This was just boots on wooden floors.
	And I go, well, that's interesting.
	Where is this castle?
	And we go, and there's no wooden floors.
	It's all limestone and marble.
	And I go, wait a second.
	There's no wooden floors here.
	How come?
	And then we talked to this guy who knows the history of this castle, and they said, yes, back in the 1600s or 1500s, this was a wooden floor.
	So the memory of this person remembered what his boots sounded like.
	on a wooden floor and it is recreated.
	Right.
	So, when people talk about, like, the secret, you know, they're projecting their wants into the universe.
	The universe, as a big machine, starts to generate certain things, because why?
	The human mind can control it.
	We can demand from our reality certain things.
	In the afterlife, it's compliant.
	It's exactly the same thing.
	When you're an entity on the other side, the universe becomes compliant to you, just like it becomes compliant to us.
	I like that.
	Okay, let me stop you now and ask you.
	Many, many, many people say there is a heaven and there is a hell, and there may be in-between spots, and that a ghost is simply An entity that has not yet moved on.
	Is that consistent with what you believe?
	Not necessarily consistent.
	Really?
	It's similar.
	If you have not gone on, it's because you cannot accept the unconditional love of God.
	There is a creator.
	There is an afterlife.
	Our universe and 198 other universes are in the afterlife.
	It's a very big place.
	It's 200 zillion light-years across.
	If the earth was an electron, the size of an electron, the afterlife is 200 billion light years across.
	And heaven, the creator...
	How can you know this?
	The area that God dwells is 50 billion light years across.
	How can you know that?
	Because two things.
	One, it's a fractal and it's a torus.
	It creates a torus field so it's constantly moving.
	It's always vibrating.
	That was torus, not torsion, right?
	Yeah, right, Taurus.
	It's an energy field inside.
	So, it's a replica of what we see in these orbs, in this anatomy.
	So, the consciousness of the afterlife is the same, like these orbs.
	The anatomy is almost identical.
	And the Taurus is a common field effect in our reality.
	It emulates from an intelligent mind through the frequencies to support our dimension.
	Okay.
	A lot of people who do photography, Doctor, get these orbs and they think they're ghosts.
	Now, I'm somewhat more doubtful.
	I've done a lot of photography and I've come up with orbs myself.
	Um, but usually they're an artifact of the flash involved from something, a reflection, something like that.
	I don't know how you differentiate.
	Certainly not all things seen as orbs are ghosts or souls, right?
	That's correct.
	That is correct.
	And we, over time, like any forensic, uh, you know, Anyone in forensics will see that if it's raining, you have to discount that.
	If there's snow, you have to throw that out.
	If there's fog, we have to throw that out.
	But, I have seen these orbs in fog, and they are not raindrops, dewdrops, or whatever.
	Now, the other thing is, I'm comparing this with video.
	There is, on my website, something called Exterior Forces, which is a little mini-series.
	I have lectures on the paranormal.
	In episode 10, you'll see 30 minutes of non-stop orbs.
	And this is, you know, real-time video.
	I slow it down for the observer to see what I'm pointing out.
	And you will see that these are three-dimensional, round objects, moving, you know, amongst the people, flying by the camera.
	They are not insects.
	They are not, you know, aboritions.
	They are intelligent I was about to say, I used to interview a fellow called Jose Escamilla.
	You know him?
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Rod guy.
	Right, that's right, Rods.
	Now, he sort of makes the same claim in a way, Doctor.
	He says, look, what I'm photographing, what I'm taking video of, these are not insects.
	These are living Some things, but not insects.
	In other words, he believes that they're entities of some sort.
	Have you looked into that, his work?
	I have looked into that.
	I cannot find what he finds, but this is an oddity.
	I don't know how much time we've got.
	I'll just throw this out real quick.
	There is a ghost walk in St.
	Charles.
	Um, the gentleman who gives the tour is a very good friend of mine, and he goes from site to site and talks about ghosts that may inhabit this place.
	Yes.
	Well, when I, he was with a tour from Canada.
	I did not know them.
	They did not know me.
	And I'm sitting there filming this group as they walk down the street to go from location to location.
	I see a unique orb traveling with this group.
	And now I'm sitting there going, wait a minute.
	One of these people has either A, a guardian angel, B, a relative that has died recently and still connected to them, or C, a gnome.
	Now, when you say you saw an orb traveling with them, do you mean with your own human eyes you saw it?
	No, no.
	Not with my human eyes.
	With my equipment.
	Ah, okay.
	And your equipment is what?
	Infrared, high definition, black and white, set at the proper frequency to see this energy signature.
	Okay, now we go along.
	Now, I see this entity again, so I get really curious.
	And so, it seems to be around one particular individual.
	I go up to that individual and I said, did you have a relative that died recently?
	And she said, my father died.
	And I said, I think he's with you right now.
	Really?
	And throughout the rest of the tour, This entity stayed with the group.
	Now, what I'm trying to get to is when I processed that from videotape into my computer, it looked very similar to a rod, the squiggly lines.
	But on my videotape, it didn't.
	It was a solid white mass moving incredibly fast and maintaining an orbit around this group.
	Wow.
	Not only did she say that her father died, her mother was there and gave me the same information.
	Wow.
	And the mother said she was his favorite child because they had several children.
	Of course.
	So, there you have it.
	Now, here's another question for you.
	Since you know so much about the other side and this process, See, how can I put this?
	Does a ghost, after a period of time, find their way, or does their lack of faith, I guess would be a way to put it, that you claim keeps them here in the first place, have an opportunity to change and have them move on, or are they eternally here?
	No, the whole idea is that They have to accept, if a person hates themselves so much, they'll never accept love.
	They'll never think they're good enough for love, and especially unconditional love.
	Unconditional love shouldn't care?
	Well, no, but let's say you don't think highly of yourself.
	So I'm not going to accept that unconditional love because I'm not worth it.
	I'm not worth it.
	So you lay in judgment of yourself.
	Bingo.
	Exactly.
	And Daniel Brinkley has always said, he said two things to me one time.
	He says, you will always judge yourself and you'll see yourself in 3D being the biggest ass of your life because you'll get a past life review.
	Terrifying.
	You can't have a 3D image, okay?
	Because you're dead, right?
	But somehow, the universe, in the Akashic Records or the Hall of Libraries, remembers your life, individually, in 3D.
	It can't do that, not unless it has an analog memory.
	Now, how can all this take place?
	We have 10,000 to 40,000 people with near-death experiences almost on a daily basis.
	Yes, we do.
	And they come back and say amazing things.
	Some do.
	Yeah, some do.
	I've listened to some of them, put them on YouTube, and I've watched some with amazing, amazing fascination.
	But what they kind of talk about is that they are in a real place.
	A real place that exists in three dimensions.
	Yes.
	And they remember themselves, but slightly younger and better looking.
	Yes.
	Okay?
	To have a memory, you have to have a loop.
	You have to have a loop.
	If you have a torus field that's rotating... But a loop, Doctor, a loop, and I've heard that theory regarding ghosts before.
	A loop is just that.
	It's a loop.
	We're going to break here.
	A loop is not consciousness as I imagine it.
	The ability to think, reason, so forth.
	It's a loop.
	Just doing the same thing again and again and again.
	At the Terror, and he sipped, and then he sucked.
	Take a bet, last offer cut.
	I was captured by a star But I could not get around
	At the terror in each sip and in each suck Take a bet, last offer cut
	Or disappear into the pottery ground When the man comes around
	Midnight Mothers are best handled by those that understand how to move in
	the darkness, like Art Bell.
	To call the show, please dial 1952-CALL-ART. That's 1952-225-5278.
	My guest is Dr. Michael Lynch, Ph.D., studying parapsychology for 27 years.
	Now, some people are ripping him apart over here.
	A couple, anyway, on the wormhole.
	Because of the reference to zillion, it was metaphoric.
	Of course, there's no such thing as zillion.
	Please, folks, come on, bear with us here.
	Just unmeasurable.
	Think of it that way, right, Doctor?
	Exactly.
	Because it's a fractal design.
	And so the further you go into it, the further it looks.
	And you can go to almost infinity.
	So the idea is it's metaphorical.
	It's just the same as incredibly large and is filled with energy.
	And it has, you know, trillions and trillions of different frequencies that are in that energy.
	Now, how all this becomes consciousness is a very unique digital problem.
	Every human has genes, a genetic code, and every gene has a frequency.
	This frequency, whatever it's resonating at, is where the energy of the afterlife creates this consciousness to interface with that genetic code.
	Okay.
	Alright, alright, alright.
	So, before the break, we were talking about loops, and boy have I heard a lot about this with respect to ghosts.
	It seems to me And a lot of people have noticed loops.
	In other words, in a house that's haunted or near a haunted area, the ghost appears to do the same thing again and again and again and again.
	And to me, that's either not associated with consciousness as we understand it, or it's hell.
	Because to be condemned to do the same thing again and again and again is hell.
	We all have that private thing.
	Now, when you study like post-traumatic stress, there is something that's like a psychological wall that some people just can't get through.
	They just can't overcome.
	And this is a trauma.
	It's a psychological trauma.
	Now, whatever it is, this person becomes ashamed of not only their weakness, but of the trauma itself.
	So they cannot get past it.
	And that becomes what we would call a living hell.
	Now when you die, the trauma is revealed to you in 3D.
	And if you can't get past it then, then that is what we'd call a hell.
	Because you live that loop over and over.
	And you can't break your cycle.
	You can't get out of it.
	So you're saying that You're absolutely sure that in that loop there is a consciousness suffering it again and again and again.
	Exactly.
	And this occurs most frequently when there is a violent death of some sort.
	Suicide, violence, something like that.
	Murder.
	There is a place in Tombstone, Arizona called the Birdcage.
	Yes.
	And they almost kicked me out of there.
	But anyway, I went on the tour there and we saw several ghosts there.
	I proved all of their artifacts that were there.
	Now, at the end of the tour, we had a little seance.
	All right.
	Well, there is an entity in the birdcage, in Tombstone, that can try to somehow communicate through a speaker, a stereo speaker.
	Really?
	That has no connection.
	It's just bare wires at the end of it.
	There's a speaker sitting there and you'll hear this static come across it.
	This is the entity shorting out the speaker wires and applying just enough current to it that it actually sounds like, you know, static interference and it's not plugged into anything.
	This entity is called Timothy or Timmy.
	I'm not really sure which one it was.
	Anyway, during the seance at the end of the tour.
	And you know this how?
	The name?
	The lady who led the tour is psychic.
	And she claims that she had seen several full-blown bodied entities early in the morning at that location, walking around like they owned the place, dressed in clothing from a period a hundred years ago.
	Wow.
	Now, she was leading the tour.
	She was convinced it's haunted and she can hear.
	She's some type of audio cleric where she can hear the voices.
	There is this one that remains there at the birdcage.
	It's either Timothy or Timmy.
	I don't remember which.
	Anyway, we were having the seance and I had my equipment there.
	I noticed one entity hanging around.
	There was another one that attacked a gentleman who was seen across from me.
	And so we had to break the seance circle.
	I picked up my equipment and I watched as this orb, again, plasma, leave the back of his neck.
	The back of his neck.
	And he was choking.
	We thought he was just nervous.
	And then suddenly he lost all ability Neuromuscular ability in his throat to even say that he was in pain he was actually being choked or he felt like something was choking him well I'm watching this on my camera and and I see this orb eject itself out of the back of his neck and even in different stages of slow motion it was dramatic there was no physical cause because all of her hands okay there's no one there to choke him because all of her hands are connected
	But when I videotaped this, I realized that if that is Timmy or Timothy or whomever that is there was using him to try to communicate, use his vocal cords, however, through a neuromuscular sense.
	Now, this guy, let me tell you a little bit about this guy.
	He was a soldier.
	He was going off to Afghanistan in 10 days.
	And him and his girlfriend came down to go to the birdcage just as tourists.
	So this guy is a straightforward, honest shooter.
	It took me 30 minutes after that, after that to calm him down, to try to tell him that it wasn't his fault that he was attacked and he was attacked by an entity that he could not see or defend himself against.
	And after that, he kind of said, okay.
	And then he said, you know, in 10 days I'll be in Afghanistan.
	So, um, So he was not a fly-by-night, excitable type.
	He was a trained soldier.
	I have had people tell me, Doctor, that it is possible to trap an entity, or if you will,
	trap a ghost, trap a soul, depending on how you want to look at this.
	I guess they could all be one and the same, but you can actually trap something.
	Is that true?
	No.
	No, that is not.
	We tried for years.
	We were able to design a machine, but it's like Ghostbusters.
	The more you throw in there, the bigger the field to maintain it has to be.
	I would think one would be okay.
	I mean, if you can trap one entity, you can prove a lot, right?
	Oh, true, true.
	You can prove everything.
	So you're telling me that like in Ghostbusters, you would need an electromagnetic field to actually contain it?
	Contain it, correct.
	Because it would have to be a stronger electromagnetic field than the plasma field that it is in.
	So, after you do these readings, you know, we decided that it was easier to keep an entity out by reversing certain polarities using a generator.
	We could wire a room, very similar like a cage, a Faraday cage or whatever, and we could reverse the polarity and keep them out easier than we could ever keep them in.
	Well, it makes a nice safe room, I suppose, from entities, but other than that, I don't know.
	I kind of like the idea, perverse as it may be, of capturing something.
	Yeah, we've tried that, and the expense and the time and the coaxing became problematic.
	And so we didn't really give up on it.
	We actually have a design.
	You know, it's like capturing anything.
	In the analog world, you just have to have the right design and you have to have some assistance.
	So it was easier for us to, um, now this is where we get into a little situation and it's not belief.
	Believe you me, it's not belief.
	Some people say, we can go on ghost hunts and we are never attacked.
	Nothing ever happens to us.
	Right.
	And we always come back with a photo or whatever of a ghost or, you know, orb or whatever.
	And I say, yes, that's fine.
	But why aren't you possessed?
	And they just look at me like they're stunned.
	They've never come across their mind before.
	And I said, well, either two things, you know, the ghost didn't want to possess you, or you have some type of angelic guidance that is preventing you from being possessed.
	And so we developed a suit.
	It was kind of like, well, actually we built a vest.
	And what it is, it's very fine wiring that's built into some type of capacitor.
	And as the entity drags electrons, because electrons really affect us in this reality, as they drag the electrons, the suit picks up the electrons and puts it in a capacitor.
	So those things don't affect us.
	They can't turn our reality against us.
	So you're saying you can actually suck a soul into a capacitor, which of course holds a charge.
	Which would hold a charge.
	So what we're doing is we're bleeding it off.
	We could virtually bleed off a lot of it.
	A lot of that energy.
	Now we couldn't really maintain it, but we could bleed it off.
	So an entity like this gentleman who was scratched, that would have been preventable with a proper suit.
	He could have worn it.
	We actually came up with a halo.
	In essence, you're grounding them out, right?
	Exactly, exactly.
	We're just grounding them out using plain physics just to ground out their effect on us.
	Now, this gets into a different field but we had actually worked up the, you know, schematics for all this and then it got to a point to where we had to kind of enlist the help of a psychic.
	Because we were getting into a point of saying, you know, are we becoming adversarial?
	I don't want to become adversarial.
	I just want to be, you know, pleasant with these entities.
	I don't want something to attack me that I can't see.
	Right.
	But how do you, if you're looking for a psychic, how do you decide the real McCoy versus all the frauds and fakes?
	Yeah, well after you've worked with one for 20 years you get to know them pretty well and you get to know what they can do.
	And so once you get into what their specialty is and they can pull information to you through that specialty.
	If I hurt my knee, I don't go to a cardiac surgeon.
	I go to a kinesiology guy who's going to tell me about my knee.
	So you work with their ability, whatever that ability may be, to download information that you may be overlooking.
	There might be a better way.
	The idea of using a proper professional psychic is to save time, save money.
	It makes sense to me.
	I know there are people who have the ability to either call up or communicate with those on the other side.
	There are some people who really can do that and then there's a bunch of fakes.
	Yes.
	I agree.
	I agree.
	I'm right there with you.
	So I happened to have bumped into one, you know, as serendipity or synchronicity happens, I bumped into one and she was just kind of, you know, a natural born.
	She was naturally born.
	This was the way she was all of her life.
	She was a registered nurse.
	She had become a certified hypnotherapist.
	She had her own client base.
	and things like this, but she wasn't aggressively seeking clients.
	So after a situation, a period of kind of getting used to each other's methods of operation,
	we realized very quickly that we had to double up.
	So if I have one colleague who's a still photography specialist, someone else in the team
	had to become a specialist in still photography.
	If someone was a video editor, an expert, someone else in the team had to.
	So we could always back each other up.
	But when it came to the psychic situation, we only had one.
	So we had to trust that one.
	Now, I had a... The proof is in the pudding, of course.
	So if your psychic can produce information saying, look, there's something here, and then you otherwise prove there is something there, pretty good.
	That's it.
	So when we go into a house and she says, there are six entities here, and I have videotaped or taken still photography, and I've captured four, I know we're in the ballpark.
	We're in the ballpark.
	You know what I'm saying?
	So if she says they've left the house, then we will go outside.
	And nine times out of ten, we were investigating a school.
	It's supposed to have been haunted.
	We get in there.
	We don't find anything.
	I'm with another team.
	They can't find anything.
	And I just say, OK, if they're not inside, they're outside.
	So we walk outside and there they are.
	These orbs are right outside.
	We're not only getting them on still cameras, we're getting them on video equipment.
	I've always been an orb skeptic.
	On the other hand, what you've captured, I'm impressed by.
	You've got something different there.
	I'm sorry.
	I know.
	I know.
	On the other hand, what you've captured, I'm impressed by.
	I mean, you've got something different there.
	I don't know what you've got, but it's very different.
	Now, you know, I'm going to draw a little picture here.
	Okay, now we have the Max Planck Institute of how the universe is diagrammed.
	And it looks exactly like the human brain's neural network.
	Okay?
	So, the entire universe is electromagnetically connected, just like the human brain.
	Not only just like, it is exactly like.
	So, if you're really telepathic, or if you're really psychic, you can jump on this galactic superhighway and go to your power station sitting off 1,500 light years away and tell you exactly what it is.
	Why are we sending spaceships into space, or whatever, if we had the right psychic The right capability, even technical remote viewing has evolved to a certain extent.
	We could be looking, NASA could say, here is the planet.
	One, two, three, go!
	And technical remote viewers could come back with more data than ever.
	I had a friend of mine who was a NASA scientist, worked on the space shuttle program, and we were on a radio show together.
	And he pulled out the latest planet that NASA had found.
	And it was just slightly larger than Earth.
	And, um, but they could not figure out if it had life on it or what was going on.
	And?
	Well, he laid it down on the table and I said, okay, I'll look at that.
	So, uh, I have recently become a very good dowser.
	And so I doused if our life could live on that planet.
	And the answer was no.
	Okay.
	Then a few more questions later, it comes back that the sun in that solar system is giving off lethal radiation to our type of life form.
	And that planet would not be, could not be colonized by us because we could not survive on the surface.
	Right, okay, fine.
	But that doesn't mean some other life doesn't survive there and thrive there.
	True, that's true.
	But to save time, instead of sending a spaceship out there, which would take years, we can send psychics first.
	Find the planets that are perfect for our life form.
	Well, that's a good point.
	Some remote viewers are full of baloney.
	Other remote viewers are spot on.
	And you and I talked for a moment before the show, and of all the seers that I've had on my radio program, Evelyn Paglini, who claimed to be a witch, she has now passed on, hit everything on the mark.
	I mean everything that she said she saw coming.
	Brother, you could take it to the bank.
	It was coming.
	And I know you heard her, right?
	Yes, I remember that show.
	That woman was astounding.
	All right, hold it right there.
	We've got a break coming up.
	Short one.
	I'm Art Bell.
	Dr. Michael Lynch is my guest.
	To reach Midnight in the Desert via Skype worldwide, if on a computer, please be sure to use a headphone mic and
	call MITD51.
	That's MITD-51.
	That's it.
	Alright, let me give you the quick talk and then we're going to begin to take some calls.
	There are some people I know, Doctor, that are going to think you're a lunatic.
	Absolutely crazy for thinking these things.
	And others, not so much.
	It depends, I guess, on what you believe.
	So, here we go.
	My public number is area code 952-225-5278.
	area code 952-225-5278.
	Not so much a lunatic, though, if you look at the photographs that he's got.
	Bye.
	That's pretty telling stuff.
	And then, if you want to come in by Skype, you can come in that way as well.
	In North America, simply add us as a contact, and then we'll be on your contact list.
	So, the little plus sign on Skype, you would put MITD51.
	M-I-T-D as in Midnight in the Desert 51.
	And elsewhere in the world, MITD55.
	MITD55.
	And we do have a first-time caller line.
	Let me dig it out here.
	And a... Let's see.
	Our first-time caller line is area code 775-285-5800.
	Area code 775-285-5800.
	seven seven five to eight five
	fifty eight hundred area code seven seven five two eight five fifty eight
	hundred i know there's a lot of people out there that
	look at orbs and uh... believe in orbs
	and i have not been one of them But I must say, what the Doctor has captured on film here seems to me to be a very different sort of animal.
	Now, I had my producer look, Doctor, for the sound you talked about.
	I think it was sort of a grunt or a scream you mentioned that was on your website.
	No, it's not on my website.
	It's on the radio station's website at 971talk.com.
	It's under the Dave Glover Show or DGS Halloweens.
	I'm sorry, that's owned by the copyrights on the Yeah, but next time if we do another show on EVPs I'll definitely get their permission and we'll run some EVPs.
	There's another thing about this.
	We were doing an investigation and I was shooting off some photography and I caught a couple of orbs and immediately I took the microphone, which was a wireless microphone, Uh, during this show and I raised it up to the air and I said, if there's anyone in the room who would like to talk to us, go right ahead.
	And now's your opportunity.
	And, um, well, everybody got upset because they thought I was hogging the show.
	And when they played the tape back, there were two voices on the recording.
	Exactly.
	So those dust specks were talking to me.
	Which I don't think so.
	Or they knew English and they were speaking.
	They were speaking directly into the microphone.
	Odd.
	Odd indeed.
	Certain paradigms we have to shift to gain better perspective.
	You know, it's one of those things.
	How is the soul, or if you will, a consciousness created in the first place?
	In afterlife, there is so much energy and there is so many frequencies.
	that the frequencies have to set up with our genes and so those frequencies are selected for our genetic profile and that energy is inserted as we become a vessel 21 days before we're actually born our consciousness 21 days?
	yeah into our genetic makeup and so we are born with the consciousness for those genes And this is where we get into a lot of debate on, is it nature or nurture?
	Is it, you know, epigenetics or is it something else?
	You know, is it handed down?
	If you have an abnormality in through genes, is it handed down and things like that?
	Well, here's another one for you, Doctor.
	It has to do with reincarnation.
	The Buddhists firmly believe in reincarnation.
	I also believe that when a person dies, It seems as though their presence, or whatever they are, their soul, seems to remain in the area for a certain amount of time, typically three or four days, and then they do move on.
	Have you heard anything like that?
	Yes, I've heard variations of stories.
	I've heard that sometimes it's every hundred years a person gets reincarnated, and I've It being within a few years, and in India, there was a little girl not too long ago who came out and said she was one of the astronauts who died in the space shuttle incident.
	She actually knew her father's name, she knew the village where she lived, and she was, you know, less than five or six years old.
	Yes, that matches up so well with a recent movie called Eye Origins.
	Did you see that?
	No, I haven't seen that yet at all.
	Oh, my.
	You should see that, trust me.
	All right, let's go quickly to Skype and start to take calls.
	Hello there, you're on the air with Dr. Lynch.
	Skype?
	Hello, Skype?
	Hello.
	Yes, hi.
	Hi, Art.
	Gentlemen, good evening.
	So I wanted to share an experience that I've been having.
	I had at one point heard you talk about the refresh rate on screen monitors.
	Yes.
	And how that can affect perception.
	Right.
	So I built some LCD glasses that can vary the blink rate and I've been playing with those and some very strange things have been happening.
	Such as?
	Synchronicity, but continual.
	Like things happening that are so beyond the possibility of coincidence.
	And another thing that happened is... Well, you haven't told me yet what happened.
	Things that are so beyond coincidence.
	What do you mean?
	Well, for example, I would mention something and it would manifest itself in some totally unrelated way shortly thereafter.
	For example, I'd mention something to my wife and it would happen.
	I would do something and something would happen that's related, but no way they're connected.
	If that makes sense.
	But the second thing, the disturbing thing is a couple of days ago, I went into our house.
	I was working in the backyard and I couldn't find my wife.
	And I said, that's strange.
	Where did she go?
	And I went back in the kitchen and she was sitting there.
	And I said, Oh, where were you?
	She says, Well, I've been sitting here all the time.
	And I thought, well, that's odd.
	The next morning, I woke up.
	And for a brief second, I saw an entity standing, standing beside me.
	And a brief fraction of a second later was that it was as if I reawoke The fabric in the background changed and that entity was gone.
	All right.
	This is very weird.
	Yes, very weird indeed.
	All right.
	Well, thank you for the call and the story.
	Doctor, I had a recent experience.
	It was, I don't know, weeks before I actually began doing this program in July that I'll describe to you briefly.
	You can make of it what you will.
	I was working, and this is why he mentioned what he mentioned, I was working late at night on my computer, and I was doing research for his show coming up.
	You know, I knew I was about to be on the air in July.
	So, sitting at my computer for hours, late at night, after my family had long gone to bed, hours and hours in front of that computer, looking up stories and things, and all of a sudden, on my right, I saw what was a human figure shape, Doctor, and it started, it startled me really badly, it scared me, and I, it blinked away, and I looked behind me, why I don't know, but there it was behind me.
	At this point, I'm terrified.
	I mean, really terrified.
	I swung him back to the left, and oh my God, it's right there to the left of me, and then gone.
	And it really didn't have, you know, appendages to it, but it was a human form.
	Head, torso, something where the legs should be.
	I don't know what this thing was.
	I call it a shadow person.
	I guess we can call it whatever you want to call it.
	What is a shadow person, anyway?
	Basically, a shadow person is something that's absorbing light energy, and that's why they look like a shadow.
	They're darker.
	They're absorbing light, and they're not reflecting light.
	Is it a ghost?
	We have to walk a fine line here.
	Okay, everybody thinks I'm on the crazy side.
	Anyway, so let's say it's not a ghost.
	Then what would it be?
	And then it would be a psychic projection of an entity.
	So let's say there is someone incredibly telepathic, or remote viewer, and accidentally their Viewing you why is it not?
	I'm sorry.
	Why is it not as likely to be a ghost is it because of this energy deal or?
	Yeah, okay down the flip side.
	Let's say it's a ghost Okay, if it was it would be able to at that size of energy to memorize this entire body should be able to move something we should be able to reappear and at later dates and Um, you know, be interactive, be more interactive.
	Now you have some wanderers that just, you know, wander through the neighborhood and they just move on.
	I'm not seeking this stuff, doctor.
	Uh, I don't know.
	You don't have to know.
	It's curious about you.
	It's just curious about you.
	You know, here's our bell legendary radio announcer.
	Let's look over his shoulder and see what he's looking at.
	And you know, uh, Curiosity, on the other side, is very curious.
	We used to go to this one place which was incredibly haunted.
	And we would open the door.
	We'd have to start videotaping when we opened the door.
	And as we opened the door, the two little balls of light would be sitting right there waiting for us.
	And then within a few minutes, they were gone.
	They didn't care about us anymore.
	We weren't exciting enough for them or whatever.
	And so they'll meet you at the door.
	They're curious.
	All right.
	We're in the final hour here.
	Let's take a call.
	Spartanburg, South Carolina.
	Hello, Art.
	How are you today?
	I'm okay, sir.
	You're on the air.
	Yes, sir.
	Just wanted to let the gentleman know, or I had a question.
	I saw a full-bodied entity, and I didn't know that that was possible, but it stands over along Interstate 40 in Tennessee, and I'm an amateur radio operator also, and When you drive by this entity, and this has happened many times, I can actually hear the entity on the 20 meter and 80 meter bands.
	And I knew that they could communicate electronically.
	You're hearing them on the radio?
	Really?
	Yeah.
	Right.
	On the HL.
	And I never knew that this was possible.
	Well, I know there's some evil entities on 75 meters.
	No question about that.
	I agree with you totally, exactly.
	I just wanted his opinion on that.
	I just never knew a full body could do that.
	OK, well, so, Doctor, they can project themselves, if they can project themselves to a recorder
	and become an EVP, then it seems to me they could project themselves to the radio, to the radio
	spectrum if they wanted to, right?
	Absolutely.
	There are something like a police scanner that scans hundreds of frequencies.
	And you can run this apparatus.
	And it will start to scan.
	And when it hits a frequency, you may get several words.
	You may get a couple.
	I've seen this apparatus actually work.
	They call different names, a ghost box or ghost antenna and things like that.
	And as it scans, you'll actually be able to pick up certain conversations.
	Other people have tried to narrow in the frequencies, but sometimes they change per entity to entity.
	There is something called, I forget what the name of it is, is some triangle out east.
	And if you drive through it, you'll see apparitions alongside the road.
	Sometimes they're Native American Indians, or they're the Redcoats, you know, from a different time.
	There is also the ancient story of Resurrection Mary, where she comes out of the cemetery in Chicago, and she'll be walking alongside the road, and people will pick her up, think she's absolutely real, deliver her, and she disappears.
	Okay, Doctor, it's not that I want to see Anything.
	Thank you very much.
	However, it was my theory that staring at that computer screen for that long period of time affected me, that the refresh rate of the computer screen affected my brain after a while.
	Now, that's just a wild theory.
	No, that's true.
	It's a form of hypnosis.
	The 60 cycles or the 120 cycles Uh, form in the mind, the subconscious brain, and you start becoming hypersensitive to suggestion and auto-suggestion.
	That was just my theory.
	Okay, listen, a lot of people, a lot of, I'm somebody who doesn't want to find these things because I'd rather not see them, thank you, but if somebody actually wants to find a ghost, doctor, what is the best advice you can give those who would wish to Actually, you would have to go to some place that's public and that advertises that they're haunted.
	And then you could take your equipment with you.
	Like I said, sometimes a still camera is better than a video camera if you don't have the right frequencies.
	But that's the way you kind of get started.
	I don't recommend going to cemeteries, but my equipment at night, they have certain restrictions.
	And I've been to several at night, and I don't get a lot of evidence.
	I get more evidence walking down the street.
	Like, I got more evidence walking down the street of Tombstone, Arizona than I did inside the birdcage.
	You know, that's really, really interesting, because the best EVP people I know also say they don't get their best evidence in cemeteries.
	They go to places like prisons.
	Yeah.
	You know, places where... The loop.
	Yeah.
	You get caught in that loop.
	You can't forgive yourself.
	You're not good enough.
	And you have to stay in that prison because you just can't pass that reality.
	So, what do you hear?
	You hear the same things over and over.
	They're new conversations, but you get that EVP because they can't break out.
	See, that is legitimately scary to me.
	To imagine being caught in a loop, with consciousness, doing the same damn thing again and again and again.
	You can't forgive yourself.
	So when someone comes around, you're in my space, they become territorial or predatorial.
	And so normally when you're like in a prison or an asylum, they become very predatorial and territorial.
	So they'll almost want you off their property and they'll do whatever they can.
	I mean, I think in certain cases, Not to step on Barry Taft's toes, but I had a case where a lady was being sexually assaulted by an entity and we could videotape the entity so we knew it was there.
	What shocked her was she thought it was all a psychosis until we actually showed her the videotape of the entity in her bedroom.
	Oh my God.
	And so we had to... You're telling me you have video of this?
	Yeah.
	I've got it in my library.
	I mean, I've got years, ever since 2000 that we have, you know, and then prior to that, we, we experimented on frequencies in order to see this.
	So what, so we get into certain private matters, you might say that, that, uh, you know, I can't reveal names or locations, but we get into certain situations that don't make any sense to us.
	But if you're just free flowing energy, And you're caught in the, you know, self-ridicule, self-hatred.
	You'll never break out.
	You'll never break that loop.
	And that's why when you go to these prisons, you go to these asylums, their minds can't forgive themselves.
	Okay, well apparently that is a good hunting location if you really want to find these things.
	JN on Skype, hello.
	Hello, Art Bell.
	This is Jeremy in Aransas Pass.
	Thanks for having me on, Art Bell.
	I've been listening to you since 94, 95, and this is my first time to get to talk to you, so I'm really excited.
	Mr. Dr. Lynch, great show tonight, man.
	I'm really enjoying it a lot.
	A quick little thing and then I'll let you get on with some other people.
	I'm sure there's plenty of people who would like to talk to you.
	When I was young and we had this ranch out in Goliad, I used to wake up a lot of times
	with scratch marks all over my stomach.
	Now, when I was a kid, I never told nobody that because I was more or less scared.
	I know it wasn't from playing or something like that, but I remember them being almost
	like five fingers, which you would notice.
	They'd be on my stomach.
	Let me ask you this.
	Did you feel it happen to you at the moment it happened?
	Or only when you woke up did you see this stuff?
	Yeah, only when I woke up.
	I never felt it in the night.
	It was always like whenever I woke up the next day.
	And it was only when I went to the ranch.
	It was only when I went up there and we spent the time at the ranch with my grandparents and stuff.
	It never happened to me like at my house where we lived.
	It was always only at the ranch.
	You know, I know it wasn't from playing, because I was a pretty careful kid, you know, I would remember these scratches, but I just remember him being, you know, the size of a hand, and they would be on my stomach, and they would be sometimes on my chest, and even, I think, sometimes on my back, but I would just like to get Mr. Lynch's retrospect on that, and I appreciate you having me on.
	Right, thank you.
	That entity was trying to get your attention and not trying to lethally harm you.
	So the entity was in that room while you were there all the time.
	Now, you don't have the ability, we're not telepathic, we don't have the ability to find out what they really wanted, but they were just trying to nudge you to get your attention for some reason.
	All right, well, it sure gets my attention.
	You know, some of what we talk about, yeah, you know, you can either believe it or not believe it, but when you have these scratches, I mean, really bad, bad scratches, as depicted on our website, the photograph you sent, my God, you know, that just doesn't come from nothing, or in this case, sort of, in a way, I guess it does.
	Let's go to Silverdale, Washington.
	Hello, Dr. Lynch.
	I wanted to say, years ago I took a class with a lady and during the class, psychic class, she was talking about the fact that her father, she would go to the Akashic Records that night for the class and she said she'd always see her father who had passed.
	He was a French soldier and he had passed years before and he was laying there always with the He looked like angels around him, working on him.
	She would see him every night and they would reassure her that he would be all right.
	She told our class one time about it and I just got kind of guided, we will work on him
	tonight by my guides.
	The next morning when we went to our class she said the most wonderful thing that happened.
	She said he had come that night and it was the only time he had ever done it.
	He sat on her bed and said he was fine now and they conversed a little bit and then he
	left and she said I know he is fine.
	She said I didn't see him laying there that night on the way to the Akashic Records.
	So I think he probably needed to forgive himself for something that happened during the war is what she felt too.
	Could be.
	So it was probably a matter of forgiveness.
	Yeah, the odd thing is that there's a lot of things that we talk about like angels and miracles and the Vatican has a whole room of these things.
	We look at them very lightly but at the same time the energy to do this is out there and it's a matrix of energy that's That's fueling not only this reality, it's fueling this reality in a way that our conscious mind is looking at it and then we can alter it if we so desire.
	So to have psychoanalysis on the other side with angels or superior beings or guides, I say absolutely.
	I say why not?
	And we may be totally embarrassed once we get on the other side of our lifestyle or our lives or whatever, but at the same time, if we can forgive ourselves, accept this next life, then we are re-immersed in that energy and we are reconnected on the same level.
	So my energy is absorbed back in.
	And all my memories come back.
	I can go back to all my past lives, all my future lives, if I so desire.
	It becomes infinite, infinite, infinite time, infinite space, because you're nothing but energy.
	If we look at the process, even Einstein said, if you have the speed of light, time stops.
	Well, if you're just pure energy, electricity, if you're just pure electricity, you have no time, zero time.
	It's when you drop out of that, Yes, let's just say infinity.
	Okay, that makes sense. I mean earlier you were saying zillion and
	I mean you're talking about infinity basically, are you?
	Yes, let's just say infinity. Yeah so
	so when you start looking at that and the infinite energy that's backing that up and how that
	uh You know connects to the genetic code in your body
	the the genetic uh Matrix, then we start to see that we're interconnected. We're
	in a medium of of of not sub We're in subatomic energy. We're in subatomic plasmas
	and this is a a benevolent gentle energy, but Yeah, you're throwing around a lot of phrases that I don't understand.
	Genetic matrix?
	Yeah, no, I hate to say that we're back in the Cold War, but there's a Russian scientist, Biophysicist who's talking about molecular biology and he's talking about the DNA and how it resonates and that they think in Russia now that by using certain DNA frequencies they can cure genetic Wait a minute, what's a DNA frequency?
	Well, we all are resonating.
	We all, our DNA is resonating at frequencies related to our Body or genetic code or genetic blueprint and the Russians think that they can use other frequencies energy plasma frequencies probably and they can correct DNA or manipulate DNA or genes at the cellular level.
	So there's other people looking at this and if we're all resonating that means we're harmonic.
	Now I was in Europe and I went to this museum for harps and I was just amazed at these harps and these people were playing these harps in a symphony.
	You're leading me all over the place here.
	I'll tie it up.
	So these harps are resonating strings and if each part of my...
	Gene is a resonating string.
	We are a symphony of vibration, a symphony of energy.
	Yeah, I'm going to actually have a guest on Audio Energy.
	It's a very, very interesting subject.
	Somebody named Chaz on Skype very quickly.
	Hi.
	Hey, Art.
	Hey, Doctor.
	I'm calling from Vegas.
	Quick question.
	You see all of these shows on TV where these investigators are going out and they're investigating prisons and asylums and that type of thing, but none of them ever talk about the possible attachments that these ghosts or entities or whatever could attach to them and go home with them and cause havoc.
	I can take my answer off the air, but what are your thoughts on that?
	God blesses the naive mind.
	They are incredibly fortunate if they don't take something home with them or something doesn't follow them home.
	Now I'm with you.
	I've been warning a friend who's using this program This app to find ghosts.
	It's like, in my mind, it's like using a Ouija board.
	You're going to invite something into your life, and you're not sure what you're inviting into your life, and you may not be able to uninvite it from your life.
	In other words, once you get something hanging around you, you've said it yourself, those orbs, those energy balls, whatever they are, those spirits may not leave.
	Once you invite them in, they may not leave like a bad guest at night.
	Speaking of the Ouija Board, later on this week, we'll be going back to the Exorcist House in St.
	Louis.
	And that's a story within itself.
	Alright, well it's a story that will have to wait.
	We've got a break coming up.
	National number, area code 952-225-5278.
	Or of course, on Skype.
	952-225-5278 or of course on Skype.
	Dr. Michael Lynch is here.
	When I cry, you don't laugh, cause you know I'm in you.
	Imaginary lovers never turn you down.
	When all the others turn you away, they're around.
	To initiate a dialogue sequence with Art Bell, please coordinate your phalanges and call 1952-225-5278.
	That's 1952.
	Call Art.
	225-5278. That's 1952. Call Art.
	Well, okay, my guest is Dr. Michael Lynch, and he's been investigating
	neuropsychology and these kind of events for 27 years.
	27 years.
	That's a very long time.
	And he's pretty well convinced these orbs that people see are the real McCoy.
	Now the orbs that he showed in the photographs, I think, are astounding.
	They're not like the orbs I've seen.
	Just the light blobs that you see in photographs.
	And a lot of people believe in those.
	Anyway, if you want to join us, national number is area code 952.
	225-5278.
	The first time caller line is area code 775-285-5800.
	775-285-5800.
	And of course on Skype at MITD51 or MITD55.
	is area code 775-285-5800. 775-285-5800 and of course on Skype at MITD51 or MITD55.
	And doctor you're back on the air again. Yes.
	Okay, let's explore what we've got on the phone for you.
	And on the first time caller line, you are on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello, Art.
	Hi.
	I am a huge fan.
	I just want to say I'm so happy that you're back.
	But I just wanted to call in and talk about attachments for a moment.
	Attachments?
	You mean like to email?
	Well, no.
	Not those, huh?
	The spooky ones that I was unaware of until I had one.
	Your guest was mentioning locations such as prisons or things like that.
	This is our regular hospital where you're hospitalized and your stay isn't very comfortable depending on what you're there for, but I had an emergency surgery and ended up being there for a couple
	days and something came home with me and I didn't realize it until you know weeks later I had uh
	just a lot of depression and I didn't know why I felt really gloomy and anyways uh it took uh took
	quite the toll on me. How do you know excuse me how do you know something came with you? How do
	you? Well I didn't know it at first.
	It took some time for me to realize because I kept questioning myself and wondering why I would feel a certain way or these mood changes and it really wasn't until I was actually revisiting one of your shows with Malachi Martin and he was talking a lot about your mood and people who So this wasn't even close to the normal you?
	No, it just felt like, I mean, part of me is present, you know, like I am right now, but some of these emotions would come over me and I just was wondering where it was coming from and eventually I found out by meeting with A person who had a lot of psychic ability and asked me questions.
	It took a lot of digging, but when I found that out, it was a little scary.
	It was like that ride at Disneyland where a ghost follows you home.
	How did you get away from this, or did you?
	I did.
	It took a lot of energy.
	To basically what it is is you know we are all lights and we are all you know energy and and I think what happens possibly is when someone isn't ready to go and they're you know in the hospital and you know they have that moment of being released from their body you know they perhaps they're stuck there and they're trapped or maybe You know, they're trying to find that light in other people, and they attach to it.
	Doctor, let's ask.
	Doctor, if you're close to somebody, for example, in the hospital, and they pass away, is it possible they attach to you?
	Yes.
	Yes, it is.
	Now, sometimes that's not necessarily true.
	Many people who die in the hospital, no one ever dies alone.
	There's always someone standing by.
	Yes.
	But sometimes they just can't give up that mortal coil, and so they will attach to someone who is healing, because the energy from the wound somewhat bleeds out to repair the skin, repair the body, and they can survive off of that.
	I've got an interesting story.
	It's spooky.
	Wow.
	A friend of mine who's also a partner in my organization, She hypnotized a gentleman who had chronic shoulder pain.
	She hypnotized him and pulled him kind of out of his body to look around psychically and noticed that there was an attachment on his shoulder where he was receiving that pain.
	And then she said, okay, if there's anyone from the other side who would like to come and get this attachment and take him to the other side, please do.
	And then she asked the gentleman, what is happening now?
	And he said, well under hypnosis, he said, God called his name and he went into the light.
	The man came out of hypnosis, didn't remember anything because she erases that memory.
	Let me guess, the pain was gone.
	Exactly.
	Now this also happened with another patient who swore up and down she had arthritis in her ankle.
	And she had a brace on it and her doctor said, you have arthritis.
	After hypnosis and after entity detachment, she got up and walked out.
	After an entity detachment.
	Okay, thank you very much for the call.
	Thank you, thank you so much.
	Right, take care.
	Okay, so those kind of attachments are not only possible, but I mean, what if you work in a hospital?
	If you're a nurse or a doctor, how do you avoid such attachments?
	I don't know.
	I don't know.
	But my partner in this is also a registered nurse.
	So she's not only a registered nurse, she's also a registered hypnotherapist.
	And so she works in the psychiatric ward of a major hospital here in St.
	Louis.
	And she sees all types of abnormal behavior.
	Now, some of it's controlled through chemicals and drugs and others just requires a little bit of, you know, conditioning, you know, socialized conditioning.
	But she says what we're up against on the other side is uncontrollable because we we have to deal with it on its level.
	So whatever level it's at.
	So if it's cowering in fear or regret or dread, all that bleeds through.
	And if that attaches to someone, then they're going to suffer that.
	It's not a possession, but it does play with their mind.
	Here's a question for you.
	If somebody calls you, I would imagine with the work you do, you would get calls from people distressed.
	With an attachment or with a haunting or with, you know, do you get these calls?
	And if so, how do you react to them?
	We go over the trouble list, you know, the list of things.
	Do they have migraine headaches?
	Are they suffering from any chronic pain?
	No, what I mean is, do you actually go to people?
	We go.
	Yeah, we can go and investigate and get it on, get evidence for them.
	either audio or video or still photography, handed over to them and then say,
	what would you like us to do? Because you're not crazy, there is something in your house,
	you know, what would you like us to do? And then I handed over to the psychic,
	the psychic calls in angels or whatever she needs to do and clears the house.
	And I have seen this on video. The entities just sweep through and they don't come back.
	Okay, going to Skype, you're on the air with Dr. Lynch. Hi.
	Roswell's Art and hello there Dr. Lynch.
	Pleasure to have you on the program and to be listening tonight.
	I just wanted to call in and sort of validate a previous caller's experience
	tuning in through the radio and hearing what he said were sort of spirits or phenomena.
	Oh yes, yes, yes.
	And those spirit boxes, I'm telling you Art, those things are 100% real.
	They're valid.
	I've heard dozens of hours, and seen from dozens of different devices, clear, concise communication, entire sentences long, to direct questions, and this stuff is so real, but what I want to ask is... I sure would like to hear recordings.
	Oh, um, an excellent person, uh, that does this almost on a daily basis.
	Uh, video, audio, thousands of dollars of equipment, top quality.
	His name is Steve Huff.
	Okay, well, we'll look into Steve Huff.
	He doesn't do it for money or anything, but if you want to look for Spirit Boxes... That's fine.
	In fact, it's better if he doesn't do it for money.
	I really am a hands-on guy.
	I want to see... That's why I was impressed by the doctor's photographs tonight.
	I want to see evidence, either photographic evidence, or I want to hear it, or whatever.
	So if he's got actual, you said, sentences, right?
	Yes.
	Stephen Hough has whole sentences from dozens of different boxes, communications with dozens of spirits.
	It's all up on YouTube, so it can all be validated.
	But I have one quick question for the doctor in relation to these.
	Sometimes these spirit boxes get used by people who are speaking in English, but they do it in countries where that's not the primary language, say in Mexico or someplace in Europe, and they're still getting responses even though they're in another language.
	Would the doctor perhaps have a possible explanation as to why that's the case?
	I'd love to hear it, sure.
	Doctor?
	There is a gentleman in Kansas City who does EVPs, and he gives EVPs in foreign languages.
	Not only in English, he gets them in Hawaiian and some other American native dialect.
	Not all of them are in English.
	I think it's just the entity's way of trying to communicate.
	I don't understand... Alright, so here's a question, Doctor.
	Do entities remain in the general physical area where they passed?
	No, not necessarily, no.
	In that case, we ought to be getting EVPs in Swedish, German, Japanese, Chinese... French, yes.
	All of it, right?
	If you go to those countries, and let's just say you go to a family who's had a recent death... No, wait a minute, you're reversing yourself.
	You're saying, yeah, if you want to hear it in Japanese, go to Japan.
	Exactly, exactly.
	Well then, wait a minute.
	Oh, I'm sorry.
	Yes, right.
	But I'm sure that if you had Japanese in America, just like these Canadians were in America, and the entity followed them here, they could easily be in America and converse with them in Japanese.
	They could be with the family.
	Not necessarily with a place, but the rule of thumb is a person, place, or thing can be haunted or attached.
	Okay.
	Uh, very quickly to the phones.
	Hi, you're on there with the doctor.
	Hello.
	Yes.
	Hello.
	Oh, hi.
	Um, yeah, this question is for the doctor.
	Uh, so I go to a school that actually used to be an insane asylum, um, in California.
	No, no, no.
	Don't tell me.
	I don't need the name.
	Sorry about that.
	You go to a school?
	Yeah, I used to be in Insane Asylum.
	So I'm calling from the dorm right now.
	My father used to work at the Insane Asylum.
	And I was just wondering if there's a way to either, you know, like on both sides of the spectrum, stay away from any Kind of activity or maybe, I guess, invite any kind of activity if I wanted, you know, just, yeah.
	What do you want to do, sir?
	You want to invite it or you want to stay away?
	You know, both.
	I'm not really sure, I guess.
	I guess, yeah, I want the doctor's opinion on that.
	All right, doctor.
	He should not invite it.
	No, I'm of the content that no one wants another person's lifestyle imposed upon themselves.
	So, no, I don't classify to invite it or do anything like that.
	I don't even recommend them having a school.
	These buildings like this that remain dormant clear across the country should be destroyed.
	They should be destroyed.
	Really?
	And even though the entities would probably move on, they need to be cleared through some type of clergy or psychic to pass these people on, to pass them on so there's no residue of them You know, occupying this space.
	Well, see, here's what I don't get.
	You say that that can be cleared.
	That those spirits can be, I guess, sent on.
	Is that correct?
	Sent on.
	Right.
	Okay, but on the other hand, you said so many are caught in a loop in judgment of themselves and that nothing moves.
	Nothing can move them.
	Right.
	This is because the structures are still there.
	The prisons are still standing.
	The old asylums are still there, they're still standing, and they have a residue of energy that, you know... So you remove the building, you remove the place for the spirit to continue to cycle?
	Exactly.
	And then you send that one, you send those on to the Lord Light.
	You do it through a You know, I'm not going to say an exorcism, but it would be a form of exorcism to send them on.
	Because the longer those buildings remain, the longer those entities are probably going to stay in that area, not unless they wander off.
	And if they wander off, they're wandering into the subdivision that is right next door, and you have no idea what's going on.
	You don't want that to happen.
	No, you don't.
	TMAC on Skype, hello.
	Skype, going once.
	Go on.
	Are you there?
	Yes, sir.
	Okay, go ahead, sir.
	I just wanted to ask if you're going to have a Halloween special?
	Oh, you know I am.
	Oh, yeah.
	Yes, and we're going to be on Halloween all week, in a sense, talking about this sort of thing.
	But, oh yes, we're going to finish it off Friday night, Saturday morning, with Dead.
	Dead.
	Cool.
	And I wanted to ask the doctor, what's been your worst case ever where you said, you know what, I'm just going to back out?
	OK, good question.
	Yes, we were doing a show, a television show for Scariest Places on Earth, Triage.
	I think Corporation was doing it.
	And we were at this haunted location and somehow I got separated from the camera crew and the audio guys and then suddenly I realized I was by myself which is the worst possible scenario.
	Yes.
	And I'm standing there on the second floor And something comes into the room.
	It is as cold as ice.
	I can see my breath.
	I see sheets and curtains flying around and moving around like a big wind or someone has just opened the door.
	Like a big wind is blowing them inside the room.
	The next thing I know, I have this cold wind pushing me up against the wall.
	And I cannot see anything.
	My camera is on.
	I still can't see anything, but I am ice cold, freezing.
	What is it, by the way, about ghosts that makes it cold where they are?
	Why?
	It's something about the way thermodynamics work.
	And they are colder than the environment.
	They are always about 10 degrees colder than the air molecules around them.
	And when these things get big, like a cloud, they can force you right up against the wall, and it's freezing.
	It is ice cold.
	That would be enough for me.
	Out I'd go.
	All right, Doctor, I want to thank you for being on the show tonight.
	We're way out of time here.
	It's my pleasure.
	And we will do it again, so thank you.
	Yes.
	Good night.
	All right, that was Dr. Michael Lynch.
	And indeed, we will be talking about this sort of thing all week long, one way or the other, from all kinds of different angles.
	And then, Friday night, Saturday morning, prepare yourselves.
	It was promised, dead air comes.
	From the high desert, I'm Art Bell.

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