Art Bell

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Oct. 26, 2015 - Art Bell

02:23:18

Art Bell MITD - Dr Michael Lynch The Ghost Phenomenon

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47:17

dr michael lynch

01:07:41

seth shostak

10:03

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Speaker	Time	Text
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you good evening, good morning, good afternoon.
		Wherever you are in the world's 25 time zones, we've got you covered like a blanket at midnight in the desert.
		I'm Mark Bell.
		Great to be here.
		The rules of the show are simple.
		I articulate them every night, although people forget them every night.
unidentified		No bad language, and only one call per show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And even that may change.
		All right.
		Like a dog with a bone, I'm going to start in a moment with this megastructure story again.
		And it's for a very good reason, actually.
		But first I want to say welcome to KABC in Los Angeles.
		It is an honor to be back at KABC in LA.
		And, you know, what else can I say?
		It's just a very deep honor.
		The call letters alone.
		You know, if you're in radio, there are certain call letters that just grab you.
		Like KABC.
		Like WABC.
		I grew up with WABC.
		I spent my adult life with KABC.
		So they grab me that way.
		You know, they're legendary entities, to be sure.
		So it's my pleasure to be back on.
		And I should add one more.
		WWL down in New Orleans.
		That's a big one.
unidentified		And by the way, we're close.
unidentified		Close.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You can hear WWL in about 32 states in Canada.
		It's really crazy.
		All right, so like a dog with a bone, I'm not going to give this up, and I should not.
		The Washington Post ran the story called The Strange Star that has serious scientists talking about an alien megastructure, right?
		Now, these scientists, two of them, Tabitha Boyajan and Jason Wright at Penn State, absolutely for years went through every bit of data they could collect and one by one slowly eliminated every single possibility they could think of before they uttered the word alien.
		That's right, the word alien.
		This star is almost 1,500 light years away.
		Not quite, but almost.
		It has been obscured at times between 10 and 22 percent.
		To give you an idea of how obscure that is, when I say obscured, you know, the light has been obscured by something on a very radic but predictable basis.
		And they actually have come up with theories about what it might be, and they certainly know what it isn't.
		If you take Jupiter and you put it in front of this star, it would reduce the light by 1%.
		So what on God's green earth could reduce it by that much at any time of day?
		And they made multiple observations.
		One of the things that they came up with as a theory is something called a Dyson sphere, which is an alien civilization that would be so advanced that they would put up something that would obscure to us the light of a star while harnessing the power of a star.
		That would make it, according to Michio Kaku, a type 2 civilization.
		Almost everybody is very, very excited about this.
		Dr. Kaku said, if it's true, it'll be the story, the most important story in 500 years.
		I still question that number.
		Seems like it would be a bigger number.
		I think it might, you know, if it was actually an alien civilization, if that's what it comes down to, and believe me when I tell you, these scientists don't utter the word alien easily.
		Not easily at all.
		They think about their family.
		They think about their careers.
		They think about the rest of their life before they ever say the word alien.
		So I take it very seriously.
		I've been getting regular word from inside NASA that they also are now, after looking at the data, taking it very seriously.
		And they are up to 50% or better in confidence that it's real.
		It is what they say it is.
		In other words, they look at the data and they come to the same conclusions.
unidentified		Now, I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I get all excited about this.
		How could I not?
		How could anybody not, actually?
		I want to go for a moment to a good friend.
		He's been with me for years and years and years.
		He is the chief guy, the big kahuna at SETI, Seth Shostak.
		And I have literally dragged him from his bed to be here, his deathbed nearly.
		Not quite, but he had pneumonia, and he was very, very, very sick.
		Nevertheless, he answered the phone and talked to me about this story, didn't you, Seth?
seth shostak ▲ ● ▼		I did indeed, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what I call a friend.
		I mean, in the middle of pneumonia, and I know you were feeling awful.
		And I asked you something.
		I said, Seth, you know, this story is gigantic.
		Would you say it's as big in its own way as the SETI WOW signal?
		Now, you said yes, but I understand you have revised it now, claiming a moment of delirium due to your illness.
		Is that true?
seth shostak ▲ ● ▼		Well, I can never claim that I don't have moments of delirium.
		I don't know that it was delirium.
		You know, that's kind of a judgment, Carl, whether it's as important as the WoW signal.
		In the end, the WOW signal has never been proven to be artificial.
		But on the other hand, I will say this, that it's certainly exciting in the same way that the WOW signal was, because it looked like a very tantalizing indication that maybe we had some cosmic company.
		So in that sense, it's certainly exciting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then I heard that you ordered the Allen telescopes to immediately begin looking in that direction, yes?
seth shostak ▲ ● ▼		We have been doing that.
seth shostak ▲ ● ▼		We've been doing that since, well, we've been doing that for more than a week now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		More than a week.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it was about a week ago I passed that info on from your sickbed.
seth shostak ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		We began observations actually on October 14th.
		So that's, what, 12 days ago or something like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, and today I see a memo which I put up on the website that I guess amateur astronomers worldwide are being asked to also look at the same star?
seth shostak ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes.
		I mean, you know, that's not my area of, if you will, I can't tell amateur astronomers what to look at.
		They'll look at whatever they want to look at.
		But on the other hand, if you have a newly discovered, intriguing phenomenon in the heavens, you know, who wouldn't want every telescope in the world that can be, if you will, corralled into looking at it to look at it, because you might learn something.
		So that's definitely a good idea.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		One of the things I was contemplating, and obviously you were at about the same time, was 15 light years or just short of that amount.
		That's how far away it is.
		And I started wondering, radio signals, radio signals, let's see.
		There is a, I believe even in space, there is a calculation for, in other words, if they begin at a certain wattage or power as they go out from Earth, kind of, if you remember the beginning of contact where, you know, the radio and TV signals were slowly fading as they pulled back and pulled back and pulled back.
		That was a perfect demo because, you know, it's a matter of energy and distance.
		And over distance, energy depletes, right?
seth shostak ▲ ● ▼		Well, it just simply gets, yeah, anything gets fainter the farther away from it you are.
		I mean, you take a look at the stars, right?
		They don't blind you, but if you were up close to them, as close to them as you are to the sun, for example, you certainly couldn't look at them.
		So it's exactly the same for radio.
		The farther away the transmitter is, the weaker the signals are.
		It isn't that something is deliberately weakening the signals.
		It's just the distance.
		It's just geometry that's weakening them.
silverdale in washington ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I get it.
		Okay.
		Is it fair to say that as we look at the star today, we are looking back in time about 1,500 years?
		In other words, whatever was going on or is going on on that star happened as we see it now 1,500 years ago?
seth shostak ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that's certainly the case.
		I mean, that's one of the nifty things about astronomy in general.
		You're always looking at the past.
		Even when you look at the moon, you're looking at it not the way it is now, but the way it was a second and a half ago when the light left it.
		It probably hasn't changed a whole lot in the interim.
		And 1,500 years, the distance to this star, KIC, 84, 6, 28, 52, that's such an awkward name.
		Maybe we ought to just call it Tabby's star.
		Some people have done that in the state.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How about them?
seth shostak ▲ ● ▼		You could call them them.
		Maybe call them Rodney.
		I don't care what you call it Bob.
		It's all okay.
		But indeed, anything you see going on there is something that happened 1,500 years ago.
		And, you know, maybe things are different there now, but that's always the case with astronomy.
		You're always looking in the past.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, if the Dyson sphere thing is right, and of course it's just, you know, theoretical, I understand that, but should that actually be the case, then they were manipulating the power of the star 1,500 years ago.
		And when you look at our rate of increase technologically in the last 50 years, say, and project 1,500 years out, gee, they must be wizards by now.
seth shostak ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, indeed, in 1,500 years, we've gone from, I don't know, bows and arrows to something a little more powerful.
		I'm sure that if they're still around, if, to begin with, if there's anybody there, if this is really the indications of a society, a civilization there, then, yeah, unless they've somehow wiped themselves out or they were wiped out before we even made these observations, before that light even left there, yeah, I mean, you're looking at their history.
		You're not looking at their present.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So we would imagine them to be 1,500 years advanced from that theoretical place they were in when they started harnessing a star.
seth shostak ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, again, I wonder if you've heard any of this, Seth, that from inside NASA, really, I'm getting these very good leads and these links saying, Seth, they're looking, NASA's looking at all of this data, and they're beginning to come to the same conclusion, that there's nothing left to say except the A-word.
seth shostak ▲ ● ▼		Well, I haven't seen that, and of course, we have pretty good contacts with NASA all the time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but you've been sick, right?
unidentified		Well, yeah, although I was in the office today, I can tell you that.
seth shostak ▲ ● ▼		But a couple of things.
		To begin with, in order to see these dips in the light coming from the star, and that's what this story is all about.
		It's just a star.
		It's a little bit bigger than the sun.
		It's the sun's, if you will, bigger, older brother.
		It's 50% larger than the sun, so it's maybe four or five times brighter than the sun.
		Anyhow, in order to see anything happening to that star, such as these big dips in its brightness, this dimming, you need a telescope that can measure the brightness of the Star and measure it every minute or more often.
unidentified		That was the Kepler Space Telescope.
unidentified		But as it's broken, well, it's broken.
seth shostak ▲ ● ▼		One of its stabilizing gyroscopes, if you will, failed more than a year ago now.
		And so it's in a completely different mode now.
		And it's not really able to look at this.
		So when you say, hey, there's new data suggesting that this is good evidence for an alien civilization, I don't know where those data could come from because this is something you really can't do from the ground too easily.
		Although these dips are so big, maybe you could.
		But I'm not aware of any new data.
		I should point out, I don't want to rain on a parade here, but if you look at the paper that announced these dips, and it was just published, I don't know, a week or two ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You can't rain on our parade.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We already know it's aliens.
seth shostak ▲ ● ▼		I know you do.
		I just want to point out to listen to that the guys who wrote this paper didn't ever in there mention the possibility that this was anything other than natural phenomena.
		And that's important to keep in mind because some people will remember back in the 1960s, some astronomers in England found a pulsing radio source in the sky, which they immediately termed little green men.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wait a minute now.
		Wait a minute.
		The guy at Penn State, I shouldn't say the guy, the astronomer at Penn State, he's the one who said alien megastructures.
seth shostak ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's in a separate paper.
		But the discovery paper doesn't say anything about that.
		The discovery paper has a long laundry list of possible explanations for what's going on here.
		And they're all natural.
		Look, nobody knows what it is.
		It isn't to say it couldn't be alien megastructures.
		But on the other hand, that's, you know, I don't know any astronomers who would say that's the favorite explanation because there's a long, long history in which you come across something you don't understand right away, and the first reaction is always to say, you know, Bob, I don't know what that is, so it must be aliens.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, geez, I don't know.
		These are, you know, one of them is an astronomer, and the other is the one who, Jason Wright, also an astronomer.
		He's the one who said those words, and Tabitha Boyjan, I believe it is, she was the one who came up with all the data.
		And they are saying that they virtually have knocked down every, that list you talked about.
		They've kind of scratched everything off, except maybe a comet swarm.
		And the odds of that are five, they say, in 10,000 or something like that.
seth shostak ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, did they give the odds for it being an alien megastructure?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If I could interview them, I would ask them that.
seth shostak ▲ ● ▼		All right.
seth shostak ▲ ● ▼		Well, look, I think that we can, you know, kick this around for a while.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, I don't want to keep it that long.
		One more, I want to enlarge on the question I asked about the radio signals, and that is your chance of actually hearing anything.
		Because radio is so attenuated, as it goes across light years and light years, what are the chances of us actually, even if they are aliens, Seth, hearing anything by radio?
seth shostak ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's hard to say.
		I don't think they're good.
		As you pointed out, 1,500 light-years away, typically, when we do our SETI experiments, when we're trying to eavesdrop on alien transmitters, we're looking at stars that are often 100 times closer than that.
		Well, 100 times closer means the signals would be 10,000 times stronger.
		Okay, so if they're broadcasting radio, the only way we're going to hear them, I mean, if there's anybody there, let me preface things with that, but if this is really the evidence of some sort of society there, the only way we would hear the signals is if, A, they have really powerful transmitters.
		And, you know, who's to say what they've got?
		I mean, it doesn't violate physics for them to have really powerful transmitters.
		But they'd have to have transmitters if they're broadcasting in all directions.
		You know, they don't know where receivers might be.
		If they were broadcasting in all directions, they would need transmitters on the order of 10 trillion watts, trillion watts, for us to pick up with the Island Telescope Array.
		So that's a lot.
		But on the other hand, if they're building a big mega structure, a big Dyson swarm of solar power collectors, they've got the 10 trillion watts.
		So that's one possibility.
		The other possibility is if for some reason, and I can't think of any, for some reason they're directing their radio signals toward us.
		That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me because, you know, what's special about us?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nothing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In fact, if they were looking back at us, they would see us that long ago, 1,500 years ago, right?
seth shostak ▲ ● ▼		Exactly right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And they wouldn't be all impressed with our technology at that point.
seth shostak ▲ ● ▼		Well, they wouldn't be able to detect our technology.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right, because it wasn't here yet.
seth shostak ▲ ● ▼		Jousting contests and stuff like that.
seth shostak ▲ ● ▼		That's not the kind of information that makes its way across space.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Next planet, please.
		I'm sure that's right.
		Anyway, so here it is.
		If they are using the kind of power that you talked about, harnessing a sun, it seems to me they're doing something that would make a lot of electromagnetic noise.
		Now, I could be wrong about that, but if you detected a bigger noise floor, a bigger noise level, as opposed to when you pull away from that star compared to everything else, that would be something, wouldn't it?
seth shostak ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it would.
		That's exactly what you look for, too, by the way.
		What you do is you essentially look at a big chunk of the radio dial as much as you can, and you say, hey, look, over this range of frequencies, there's more, if you will, cosmic static coming in.
		It's not a matter of saying, you know, what are they saying?
		Are they tapping out Morse code or anything like that?
		It's just you're saying somebody's got a transmitter there.
		So they're making more radio energy, more power in a particular spot on the radio dial.
		If you found that, you would say, that's not natural.
		That's somebody with a transmitter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you remember the old Spark days, right?
seth shostak ▲ ● ▼		I do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So if they were doing something Producing a big electromagnetic signature, would that have, you know, that might make big noise.
		And it might be possible to just look at it and say, gee, that's a high noise level.
		Why would that be?
seth shostak ▲ ● ▼		Well, you could do that.
		The old spark transmitters, which I think you're referring to here more than a hundred years ago, they're the very earliest radio transmitters in the 1890s and so forth.
		They did make radio waves, and they made radio waves that made noise all over the band, just the way a bolt of lightning does.
		But as soon as you learn a little bit about radio engineering, you stop doing that because you're paying for all those kilowatt hours to make signals that are all over the dial, whereas, in fact, you want them at a specific point on the dial because you get more information that way.
		So I don't think that they're using spark transmitters, but of course, they didn't send me any email about what they're using, if they're using anything at all.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So what I'm getting at here is, even if we don't get a specific signal, as it were, and we may or may not, who knows, but an increased noise flirt might indicate an active civilization doing God knows what.
seth shostak ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and that's exactly what's motivated us.
		Look, you know, I'm happy to bet you a bad lunch art that this is going to turn out to be something completely natural.
		But on the other hand, and I think we're all in agreement on this, it's very intriguing.
		And dog on it, you don't just dismiss it and say, well, yeah, intriguing.
		But meanwhile, I'm going back to what I was doing.
		We are spending time on the Allen Telescope Array.
		We also have a small optical experiment down in Panama that is looking for flashing light as opposed to radio waves.
		And, you know, even though it might be improbable that they have a transmitter powerful enough for us to detect, you don't know until you look.
		That's what astronomy is usually about.
		If you don't use the telescopes and don't look for something, you're not going to discover anything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would take it a lot of people's telescope time got, I don't know what the word would be, put off until much later because of this.
seth shostak ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know that a lot.
		I don't know what a lot means, but it is certainly the case for us.
		I mean, just to give us an example, because I know about us, we normally are using the Allen Telescope Array to survey nearby star systems.
		We think, okay, these are good candidates for possibly having habitable planets.
		Well, obviously we put that on hold.
		I mean, those guys, it's time out for that.
		And we have spent most of the past 10, 12 days looking over and over again, by the way, over the wide range of frequencies that we can tune to with our antennas.
		And at the moment, the data are being reduced.
		And I figured that within a week, those data will be online and everybody can take a look.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I'll be your first call, right?
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that like yes?
seth shostak ▲ ● ▼		Well, of course.
unidentified		Of course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Seth, I want to thank you for being here tonight.
		You're a great guy.
		You really are.
		You're one of the world's great guys.
		So thank you for updating us, and keep listening.
seth shostak ▲ ● ▼		Okay, all right.
seth shostak ▲ ● ▼		Thanks very much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care, my friend.
		That's Seth Schustach.
		Really has always been an awful lot of fun.
		A lot of fun to interview.
		A lot of fun to talk to, and doing very, very, very important work.
		So, let's see.
		Now, let's...
unidentified		So, let me do this and this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		See, I'm in here all alone.
		I have to be very careful what I'm doing because I'm the only one doing it.
		Let's look at a little bit of other news.
		We've got a guest coming up, so stand by for that.
		This is the beginning of Dead Air Week.
		That's what I'm going to call it.
		Dead Air Week.
		It will culminate on Friday with a show that's going to scare the out of you.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Okay?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really will.
		But every day this week, we're going to be off into the world.
		Well, the other world.
		All right.
		And so tonight, we've got Dr. Michael Lynch, and he studies ghosts.
		So you're not going to want to miss that.
		Coming up, just a few things I need to get in here, and then sorry for the long opening, but that's the way it goes.
		I am now to understand that bacon, hot dogs, and cold cuts are no good for you, cause cancer.
		So here we go again.
		I remember when it was coffee, but now it's meat.
		They even showed pictures of burgers.
		Don't take my burgers away.
		Vegetarians are feeling vindicated.
		Skinny little people out there feeling vindicated.
unidentified		We're right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The meat is bad.
		I don't know.
		Others say they doubt the study, but there you go.
		First item on the NBC News tonight, meat's going to kill you.
		Well, I'm already 70.
		So I'm going to take my chances.
		I've always enjoyed my meat.
		That's not going to change.
		Listen, something is going on I want to make you aware of because it's dangerous.
		Russian submarines and spy ships are now aggressively operating near the vital undersea cables that carry almost all the global internet communications from point A to B to C and so forth and so on.
		You have no idea there are.
		You could go around the world many times if you put those cables together.
		They are vital to the Internet.
		And Russian subs, Russian ships are now hovering over these points.
		Maybe it's some kind of Russian exercise.
		Maybe they want to tap our lines.
		And God, I hope they don't want to cut our lines.
		So know that that's going on.
		This warm period since the decline and fall of the Soviet Union really is beginning to cool off a lot.
		And of course, we're sending a carrier into the area of the Chinese self-made islands, and that's probably going to be okay, but if it goes wrong, it goes really wrong.
		If they shoot at us, well, that would be really bad.
		So that worries me.
		It scares me.
		It really, really scares me.
		More than the meat.
		It scares me.
unidentified		You know, why are they doing this?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They just want to annoy us?
		Or what?
		I don't get it.
		All right, so a lot to see at artbell.com tonight.
		I know my guest, Dr. Michael Lynch, is going to disagree with me.
		You may remember I had an experience with a shadow person, right?
		Well, a fellow named Tyler has sent me a photograph that I consider to be a shadow person.
		And I think my guest is going to try and explain to me it's not.
		It's watermarks or something.
		But to me, this looks like a shadow person.
		It's a hell of a photograph.
		I don't think it's photoshopped.
		I've looked at it pretty carefully.
		I don't see marks of that.
		Keith looked at it and said, wow, he didn't either.
		So I want to call your attention to it.
		I want you to actually go to artbell.com and take a look at that.
		In addition, there are so many things that you need to look at.
		The full story on the star we've been talking about is up there.
		There are stories about quantum computing up there.
		And then there is the story of the city.
		This is the damnedest story.
		In China, I remember one night somebody called up and said, hey, Art, have you seen the photograph of the city in the clouds in China?
		I said, no.
		I don't generally imagine cities to be in the clouds, but they've got video.
		I guess thousands of people saw it.
		And yes, they've got a photograph.
		In fact, they've got video of a city or what looks like a city in the clouds.
		It was a short appearing phenomenon.
		They think they might have an explanation for it.
		It could be a ship on the high seas reflected to the clouds, but man, it looks like a city to me.
		So that's another reason for you to go to artbell.com.
		Follow the story.
		See the video if you wish, if you dare.
		It's going to be a very scary week this week.
		In fact, it's going to be kind of building and building and building.
		And then, as I mentioned, on Friday, on Friday, we're going to do you in.
		We should call the whole week Dead Air Week on Midnight in the Desert.
		I'm Mark Bell.
		Don't touch that dial.
unidentified		Don't touch that dial.
unidentified		I figured this would be good for K ABC's first night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you think?
unidentified		Midnight in the Desert doesn't scream calls.
		We trust you.
		But remember, the NSA...
		To call the show, please dial 1-952-225-5278.
		That's 1-952-Call Art.
		That's it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Don't call yet.
		We are actually just beginning with our guest, Michael Lynch, Ph.D., has been a parapsychologist for 27 years.
		Throughout his career, he has investigated ghosts, poltergeist activity, UFOs, and ancient civilizations.
		That's a lot to take on.
		Dr. Lynch uses a digital infrared video system and the latest technology to capture evidence of the paranormal.
		Now, over the past 14 years, he has hosted Paranormal Tuesday at 97.1 mm in St. Louis, has been on the Discovery Channel, Sci-Fi, Fox, Family, ABC Family, Destination America Channel, the National Geographic Channel, appearing on shows like Scariest Places on Earth, MTV Fear, and Is It Real?
		He has also appeared in Shadow Worlds, The Haunted Boy, Children of the Grave 2, and the Soul Catcher documentaries.
		Here he is.
		Welcome, Doctor, to Midnight in the Desert.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it's time for the gathering gloom.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Watchlights fade from every room.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes, yes, yes.
		It's great to have you.
		Have we ever talked before?
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		We have not talked, but one time many years ago, you had a substitute, and I was on your program with the replacement.
		And we talked at that time.
		You were on vacation or something, and I forgot what it was.
		But anyway, you had a substitute fill in, and that's when I was on your program.
		So I was lost in your Rolodex or your mainframe for many years until Heather found me and reactivated me.
		So I'm like the sleeper cell of the paranormal, you might say, something like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Heather is quite a sweetie, isn't she?
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		She is wonderful.
		Give her a raise whenever you can.
		Like the rest of your staff, I think they're incredible staff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		She told you to say that, right?
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Yes, she actually paid me.
		No, no, I'm just kidding.
		No.
		She is a sweetie.
		She is a sweetie.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		And so, yeah, let's talk Halloween.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		I think that's the direction you want to go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, ghosts and Halloween seem to go together, right?
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, you've been investigating for a very long time, 27 years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a long time, Doctor.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		It was in the early 90s we got started.
		Why?
		Why?
		Good question.
		Oh, yes, I do know why.
		I'm sorry.
		I'm getting so old now, I can't remember how I got started in this field.
		I was at a used bookstore, and there was a book by Lloyd Auerbach.
		It was like how to investigate ghosts or something like that.
		I forgot exactly.
		And he wrote a couple of chapters on some of his older cases and some of the methods he used.
		And I read that book, and I sit back and I thought, you know, why is it that no one really, you know, like jumps the fence and looks into this a little bit more?
		You know, Barry Taft had done the entity case, very popular.
		Lloyd Auerbach came out, published several books.
		Bill Roll came out, did several television documentaries.
		There's several guys on the East Coast that have come out and have been studying for a long time.
		They just didn't have the equipment at the time, I guess.
		And then about 93, 94, the Russian military, the Russia went bankrupt.
		And so there was a whole new plethora of infrared equipment suddenly flooded certain markets.
		And I had a friend who could access those markets.
		And we started looking at that technology.
		Now, it wasn't till another three more years till we actually developed a lighting system that would go with a certain type of camera that we could actually start seeing what we saw was energy plasma, a plasma form of energy.
		And then as the cameras became higher and higher resolution, we're up to 700 lines, almost HD, we can now see these things very clearly with the proper lights and the proper frequency of light.
		And we can see these things now as clear as possible.
		Now we cannot see them with the human eye because our equipment, even though it can go into UV, we go toward the infrared.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think you're talking about orbs, right?
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Yes, well, not only orbs, no.
		We're talking about a lot of variety of things.
		Okay.
		And that's where we're going to go.
		Now, orbs are generally 90%, 80% of basic consciousness in its basic state because it has to meet some type of three-dimensional standard.
		And that term orb or globe has been around for a long time.
		Dave Oyster coined that phrase.
		We just kept it.
		And so the orb is a three-dimensional sphere.
		And that sphere is basically energy in a wave packet, a packet of energy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Doctor.
		So you and I are going to tangle a little bit on orbs, I think.
		Or maybe not.
		Maybe you can prove to me that I'm wrong.
		Let's back up.
		How do you know, or do you know, that ghosts are real?
		And let's define it so that we know what we're talking about.
		When I say ghost, I mean an entity that has once been alive as a human being and is now presenting itself in a different form.
		That is what I mean by ghost.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Right, right.
		Now, a ghost, how would we know that it is real?
		Because it has an energy signature that reveals itself, and that is what we're after.
		A 10-watt light bulb has a glow signature just like, you know, similar to 100, but we can tell by the basic density of the light that it is a different type of entity.
		So a lot of this deals with energy.
		It is energy signature.
		It is a plasma form.
		I get it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I really get it.
		I mean, you're saying that these things, whatever they are, present themselves as energy, and that does make sense.
		We have energy in life.
		Our brains contain energy, and people think it continues.
		And you're saying, oh, yes, it does.
		And that's what these are.
		But I just wonder how you prove it.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Okay, now.
		Okay.
		Because this is how we prove it.
		Not only can we see them, we can analyze them.
		But the idea is that what is so unique about a ghost is that it never forgets.
		It maintains a memory, and it normally remembers its last form.
		So if you get a full-bodied apparition or even a cloudy apparition, it will start to reform into what it remembered its body last.
		And so one minute you'll have a three-dimensional man standing there.
		The next minute you have a cloud, and it just seems to swoosh into another area.
		It reforms as a man.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you personally seen this?
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, you've seen something go from an energy state, whatever that is, a cloud, an orb, or whatever, and form into the image of a human being.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Human being.
		Now, again, there is another side to this, which we'll get into maybe a little bit later, but not all orbs are humans, and not all ghosts are from this planet.
		You know, there are entities that are animals, and then there are entities that are just not from this planet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm completely willing to buy into that.
		I think that our animals, that animals, let me rephrase it.
		I think animals have souls if we do.
		You buy that?
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, all mammals, as far as we know, because of rapid eye movement and memory, all mammals, and maybe some birds, we just anticipate that they have an afterlife.
		There is an afterlife for them.
		Now, what do they remember?
		They remember that they were a dog, and so their memory is that of a dog.
		I investigated a house.
		You know, this was just a basic, you know, average neighbor house, and they had a dog, and the dog died.
		But days after the dog died, they still heard the footprints or the nails of the feet of the dog clamor around on their kitchen tile.
		And so they knew their dog was still there.
		I had another friend who had a cat, and this cat was very old, outlived most of the others, you know, cats by the longevity was just extreme.
		That cat died, and then suddenly the owner, maybe this is a phantom memory, but actually heard the cat who normally slept on the staircase meow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, listen, I could fill the phones with people telling you about experiences like that.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
		I was at a house.
		We were investigating.
		We were actually doing a little documentary on the exorcist case that was here in St. Louis.
		And the house we were actually filming in was haunted.
		We were kind of doing a little two-sided documentary.
		One was to investigate the haunting of this house and then also extend it into another chapter, which was the exorcist that went on in St. Louis.
		Well, anyway, while we were videotaping, while we're filming, we hear this knock on the door.
		And I'm thinking it's the audio guy who's outside and he's smoking a cigarette.
		He's going to come back in.
		Well, we reach over and open the door.
		There is no one, no one there.
		It is all on camera.
		We record it and it's all on camera.
		And this was not an echo.
		This was not a car backfiring.
		This was not an aberration of any type because six people heard it.
		We recorded it.
		We opened the door.
		There was absolutely nothing there.
		You know, I have case after case like this.
		Toys move.
		Anything electrical comes on.
		Lights flicker.
		It just goes on and on with electrical problems in the house, with the computer, with wireless communications.
		We actually got to the point where we took a volt meter.
		Now this is just a basic voltmeter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know what it is.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		And you put it on millivolts, DC millivolts.
		And we would put up the little antennas, and these things would go to 100, 200 millivolts.
		So this was electrons in the atmosphere that had been activated.
		Now, when we turned on our video equipment, when we got that perfected, we could see these balls of energy, these orbs, flying by our electronic equipment, and it was giving us an electron output.
		So that means this energy is buffering, or it's flying through the air, but it has to move through electrons.
		Electrons don't pass through it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so you could actually monitor on your equipment as something got closer, you registered higher, that kind of thing.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And as it moved away again.
		Okay.
		Before we get any further, you have sent some disturbing photographs.
		Right.
		And I presume what we're talking about relates in some way to those, right?
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, folks, I want to have you right now, if you haven't done it already, go to artbell.com, click on my guest's picture.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By the way, people have commented, Doctor, that it is a kind of an eerie-looking picture of you.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		I did a series of eerie-looking pictures and several things.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		So I sent Heather a few different ones, and that's the one she liked.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
		All right.
		Well, I like it too, by the way.
		And a lot of people thought it was over-the-top serious, but I think it's cool.
		All right, so these are really serious photographs.
		Again, go to artbell.com, click on his picture.
		This will take you to a series of, what is it, four photographs?
		One, two, three.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Four or five, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Four, five, five.
		All right.
		I want to give them a chance to get there before we get the story behind this.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What are these photographs?
		I mean, I'm trying to give them time.
		Tell me the story that involves the photographs they're about to see.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, let me back up.
		Every year, the radio station that I have my segment on does a Halloween special.
		And they pick, you know, listeners call in and say, oh, my house is haunted or this place is haunted.
		Go and investigate it.
		Well, in this situation, we had a house which was totally modern, built only a few years ago, but was infested with entities.
		And there was some people that lived in the house, and there was a little girl that lived in the house, and she kept talking about her grandmother.
		Well, her mother knew that her grandmother was dead.
		And this little girl kept talking about an elderly woman coming to the house and saying that she was her grandmother.
		Well, this frightened the entire household to the point they just grabbed a bunch of stuff and left.
		Well, 97.1 FM thought this would be a good investigation, you know, modern house.
		There shouldn't be anything there.
		Well, we get there, and There is what we call a soul collector.
unidentified		And this is a soul collector.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		This is an individual that goes around and collects lost souls and tries to keep them in a certain area.
unidentified		What?
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a soul catcher.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Or a soul catcher.
		We call them collectors because they have to use some form of intimidation to keep these souls together.
		they don't really capture them Hold on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A soul catcher.
		A soul collector, whatever.
		This is an individual who's human, who's human, who works in the same field, parapsychology, right?
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, no, they're dead.
		We're not getting them.
		Yes, yes.
		Yeah, they're dead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The soul collectors are dead.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Are dead.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then how did you know that you suddenly had walked into the presence of a soul collector?
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Well, we caught her voice, this elderly woman's voice, on an EVP on our recording equipment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Because we were doing a show, you see, for radio.
		And the audio guy is sitting there with the best brand new equipment that radio can afford.
		And we're standing in a circle in the living room, and we are debating our next point of strategy, which was probably not a good idea that we should do.
		And in the background, you hear an elderly woman's voice as clear as day as if she's standing right there in the middle of us.
		And she says, and she says in a very elderly voice, she says, no, I don't want you to do that.
		Go downstairs.
		Now, she says that as clear, but she's not talking to us, even though we're talking about going back downstairs and doing another full-blown investigation with video equipment, audio equipment, still photography, and things like that.
		So she is talking to another entity.
		She is talking to another entity while we're talking about going back down and rethinking our strategy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was this EVP recorded?
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes, it was.
		It's on the Dave Glover 97.1 website.
		He has reactivated all of our past investigations, and we have all the EVPs there.
		You may have to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, man, you really, really should have told me about this before airtime.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would have put it in.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm sorry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		Next time.
		We do EVPs on this program, and it's a whole separate category I'd love to talk to you about sometime.
		I think it is perhaps the best evidence for ghosts, frankly, if it's done right.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, a lot of people say that.
		A lot of people say, you know, EVPs, you know, and so what it is, Art, is that, okay, I'm working with this radio station.
		They have the best equipment possible.
		They're recording live conversation.
		And we decide to go back downstairs.
		We do not hear this lady's voice until later.
		So what happens is we go back downstairs and the entities follow us.
		Now, one of the radio talk show hosts are just standing there.
		He's not doing anything.
		He's up against the wall.
		We are now going back down.
		I'm taking still photography.
		These are all my photos.
		So I'm taking still photography as we go through the basement.
		And then suddenly he goes, my arm is...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wait, wait, wait, wait a minute.
		We're up against a very brief break here.
		I'm sorry.
		No, no.
		You got to just the right point.
		We'll hold it right there.
		Suddenly, something really awful happens.
		And we've got video evidence of that at my website.
		Do what I said.
		Go to artbell.com, click on the guest I have for tonight, and start looking at the photographs immediately below.
		It's a great week.
		This week, Dead Air.
unidentified		Take a walk on the wild side of midnight from the Kingdom of Nigh.
		This is Midnight in the Desert with Art Bell.
		Please call the show at 1-952-225-5278.
		9-952.
		Call Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		See?
		I can't even wait.
		My guest is Dr. Michael Lynch, and he's been investigating the paranormal for 27 years.
		So he should know what he's talking about.
		And he was just telling us about this series of photographs that I'm telling you right now.
		You can see at artbell.com.
		I wouldn't direct you up there for any little old thing.
		I just wouldn't.
		You need to see these.
		Go to my website, click on his photograph, and then the four photographs, it will lead you to.
		Doctor, welcome back.
		And so you said suddenly, and I think that's where we broke.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Suddenly, this gentleman looks down at his arm, and he says, my arm is on fire.
		It is just burning.
		And we pull back his sleeve, and my colleague, who is a registered nurse and also a psychic, looked at the wounds.
		And so we saw the scratches appear almost before our eyes.
		There were 17 claw Marks, scratches, and they were from the inside out.
		So underneath his dermis, his dermal layer, his skin layer, there was some type of hemorrhaging.
		And then they pierced through the dermal layers, and then they look like scratches.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They sure do.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Okay, now, okay, if you're a skeptic, you can say, oh, yes, he took a paper clip and he scratched himself, and it was just something for the show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		No, this is not the case.
		As soon as the burning since we actually took him upstairs and he went into shock almost immediately.
		And it took three weeks for most of those scratches to heal.
		Now, this is not the first time one of the people in the group had been attacked.
		Actually, this gentleman was attacked at another investigation, almost strangled.
		And there were handprints on his throat from the attempt of strangulation.
		I was also in another investigation where one of my former partners, we saw the entity on video.
		It flew right by him.
		And then he goes, something's wrong with my shoulder.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, we skipped right down to that fourth, or the fifth photograph, whatever.
		I don't want to do that because if you go a little bit higher, folks, you'll see the setup.
		You'll see the guy standing there.
		And you'll see, well, Doctor, what is it that's in the first picture adjacent to him, please?
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		In the first picture, there's probably some orbs, and they're in a digital, we call a digital echo, meaning the orb is moving so fast that it leaves its footprint throughout the photo.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		And let me pull that up real quick.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Looks like it's near his hand, actually, at that point.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Right, exactly.
		Now, this is probably the same entity.
		You see it three times because it's a digital echo.
		It's just moving toward him.
		Now, he's looking down at his hand in the first photograph because this orb, I know we agree to disagree, is attacking him under or through his clothes.
		And you zoom in.
		I zoomed in on the orb to make sure that it was a solid structure.
		And then he pulls back his sleeve and he has these scratches.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Dr. You were, these photographs came, you took them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They were taken by a still camera, right?
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Yes, a still camera.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A still camera.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so could you see when you took these photographs what we are seeing now on them?
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
		Oh, yeah.
		Oh, yeah.
		As soon as the, it's a digital camera.
		So as soon as you take the photograph, you see it pop up on the rearview screen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I meant with your naked eye.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		No, no, you can't.
unidentified		Okay.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		You can't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So this must have occurred within seconds, I would presume, right?
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The next photograph down, you see this.
		I must admit, it is unlike anything I've ever seen.
		The orbs that I've talked about in the past that I kind of don't believe in so much are these just single points of light.
		But what you've got here, there's a construction to this thing.
		I don't know what it is.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		It's a three-dimensional object just being squished into a two-dimensional surface.
		But whatever shape it took, and whatever shape it took, it could scratch individual marks on this gentleman.
		Now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In the next photograph, it's even brighter, or else you enhanced it.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		I enhanced it a little bit just to show that it was right on top, or next to his arm, right in front of him, right on his arm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I don't want to ignore this.
		There's structure.
		There is structure to this thing.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know what that structure means, but there's something there.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		There is something here.
		This is, you know, a lot of people say they see faces, they see this, and that's just a Rorschach test.
		We commonly see that.
		But what's really here is some type of three-dimensional ball of plasma.
		And the plasma has the ability to attack and scratch or maul the person.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So did he begin to feel this, Doctor, instantly?
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Not instantly.
		It was something like a warm burning sensation.
		So, you know, the excitement of the moment, we're doing a radio show.
		And then all of a sudden it became very painful.
		Sure.
		Like it went from a warm electric pad, you know, to all of a sudden there's intense pain.
		And then we pull back his sleeve.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I totally get it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Looking at that arm, my God.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		So what is unique is that dust flakes, dust specks don't scratch, and they sure don't leave EDPs on your recording equipment.
		So something with human voice and human intelligence defending its space or just not very friendly attacked this gentleman.
		And with no provocation, there was no forewarning, and he did not provoke anything that was there.
		He was just like in the way, I guess.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No wise remarks or cracks, nothing.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		No, no.
		And he is the nicest gentleman you ever want to meet.
		He would go the extra mile for anyone.
		He's just that kind of guy, and he seems to be the one getting attacked.
		Now, I'm doing this.
		I've done this crossing my fingers a long time.
		I've never been attacked.
		Maybe it's just because I haven't been in the way.
		Or that, you know, whatever it was just kind of left me alone for reasons.
		But whatever this plasma is, if it's consciousness, human consciousness, it has the ability to affect our world.
		Now during that investigation, there was something to do with a Barbie doll.
		Okay, it was the little girl's Barbie doll.
		She kept it with her all the time.
		Well, we set it up as like a trap or something.
		Not a trap, but we put it out to see if it would move or these entities would do anything with it.
		Well, while we're setting this up on a little table with some of the other toys that the little girl would play with, all of a sudden we hear on EVP a growl.
		And this is like a deep, big dog kind of growl.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, man, you should have brought this.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		You didn't know where it came from.
		Okay, and then the next thing we know, the Barbie doll disappears.
		See?
		Yeah, it disappears.
		Okay, so everybody goes, this is madness because we were just in that room.
		There's no way this Barbie doll could disappear.
		It's the closest object to the little girl.
		All the other toys.
		We brought them and set them up.
		We searched the entire house, find it in a closet, like back in the back on the top shelf of this empty closet.
		So this thing, these things can move objects, manipulate matter, can scratch or manipulate the human body.
		Obviously.
		And can put people into states of shock.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have a question for you, again, regarding these photographs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Since you were taking the pictures, how much time between snaps was there to capture what you captured?
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		As soon as the flash could recharge, it was just like one second, two seconds, one second, two seconds.
		As fast as the flash could recharge.
		There is a series of cameras which we use.
		It's a Canon class.
		It's called the Sport Shot or SP30, SP40, SP50.
		We use those and those have the best flash for them.
		After that series, the chip, the encoded chip, started to change and they started not to produce these anomalies because the flash on the cameras changed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's interesting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is it in that camera or that flash that allows you to see what is not seen on later models?
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it is because, uniquely, they put out what we call an infrared.
		There was an infrared halogen scenario in the flash.
		So there was a yellow cast to some of the photos.
		A lot of people didn't like that.
		So they took out the halogen and put in what we call the blue light.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I get it.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		And so you didn't get the red eye problem.
		So they put in a blue light.
		So a lot of your stuff, like your iPhones today, have an LED, but it's on the bluer, it's on the UV side, not on the halogen infrared.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The bluer is a little bit more pleasing to the eye, actually.
		To me.
		But obviously, it doesn't capture this.
		And so this is really important information.
		There's a lot of people out there in this field who are saying to themselves, well, then I need one of those.
		Where do they find them?
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Go to eBay.
		You get them for about $10.
		They're older technology.
		$10?
		Yeah, $10.
		I bought one off of eBay the other day for $10 and some shipping cost.
		People are just like throwing this stuff away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, and the model again, please?
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		It's the SP30 Canon, and it's the digital camera.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		And I got a couple laying around here somewhere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How many megapixels do you know?
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		It's five.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Five.
unidentified		That's good.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		It's not necessarily HD that everybody wants.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Now they want 12 to 32 or 16 or whatever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, but it's the uniqueness of the flash associated with this camera.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		Exactly.
		Now, if you do capture an orb, okay, it will have what we call a digital echo because the orb is moving.
		It's moving.
		So the digital camera can't make a blurry picture, technically.
		Technically, it's designed not to make a blurry picture.
		But on a speeding object that's moving incredibly fast and burning through electrons in the air, the camera, through the flash, absorbs the flash, and then what it sees is this multitude of digital echoes.
		So I have this friend, he's over in Kansas City, and he goes, you know, every time I take a picture in a haunted house, I get this dust, and it's just all over.
		And I go, dude, that's like, there's not 40 ghosts there, but there's like five.
		And you can actually blow them up and look at their unique signature or their thumbprint.
		And we can see by eliminating through contrast and brightness, not through any other form, just by contrast and brightness, we can actually see which is an echo and which is a solid form, because we're looking at its density, its opacity of brightness.
		The less bright it is, the more of the echo it is.
		And you can see them in different sizes, shapes, structures, contours.
		That's why the anatomy of these things are so unique.
		And once you recognize it and recognize that it's interacting with you, then we're not in Kansas anymore.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Doctor, so are you suggesting what we're looking at here in the third picture down or so, the one in hands, is a soul.
		This was once a human being.
		It is a soul.
unidentified		Or the energy, what's left of that?
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		It maintains its identity.
		Remember, you can't have consciousness without memory.
		Memory requires a form of energy, right?
		So whatever this was knew how to scratch and it knew how to attack.
		So the memory may not be, let's say it's to the memory of someone who's just not very pleasant, a bully, let's just say a bully.
		Well, that bully dies, it's still a bully, you see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that was another area I was going to go.
		I've had countless people come on, including EVP researchers, who say, look, whatever you were in life, if you're on the other side, you're the same thing.
		If you were a grouch and a mean person, you're a grouchy mean ghost.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes, yes.
		Odors and smells go along with some of this.
		Some people are notorious smokers, and when they die, people smell the pipe smoke or the cigarette smoke or cigar smoke still in that same area.
		Odors go along with this as well as everything else.
		And like I said, in 2000, we really, in 2001, we kind of broke the barrier.
		And after that, we started to realize these things are real, they're large and in charge.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, imagine for a second a smoker who dies and then becomes an orb, as we're seeing here.
		And you know on the other side, there's no cigarettes.
		So that orb is going to be ticked off.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		No, because let me tell you a little secret about quantum energy.
		Only the human consciousness can control, or a consciousness with 20,000 genes, human consciousness can control quantum fabric.
		So if you're over there, all you have to do is imagine a cigarette and you're smoking again.
		And the memory, really, the smoke, of the memory of the smoke becomes real.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I find that in a perverted way comforting.
unidentified		Yes.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Here's another thing.
		I was over in England and there's a couple of researchers over in England and they sit down and they go, here, Mike, listen to this.
		And I go, okay.
		And they turn on this tape recorder.
		And I'm listening to footsteps, boom, you know, like boots on wooden floors because there's a couple of castles over in Europe.
		And they go, there was nobody there.
		This was just boots on wooden floors.
		And I go, well, that's interesting.
		Where is this castle?
		And we go, and there's no wooden floors.
		It's all limestone and marble.
		And I go, wait a second.
		There's no wooden floors here.
		How come?
		And then we talk to this guy who knows the history of this castle.
		And they said, yes, back in the 1600 or 1500s, this was a wooden floor.
		So the memory of this person remembered what his boots sounded like on a wooden floor, and it is recreated.
		So when people talk about like the secret, you know, they're projecting their wants into the universe.
		The universe as a big machine starts to generate certain things because why?
		The human mind can control it.
		We can demand from our reality certain things.
		In the afterlife, it's compliant.
		It's exactly the same thing.
		When you're an entity on the other side, the universe becomes compliant to you, just like it becomes compliant to us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I like that.
		Okay.
		Let me stop you now and ask you.
		Many, many, many people say there is a heaven and there is a hell and there may be in-between spots and that a ghost is simply an entity that has not yet moved on.
		Is that consistent with what you believe?
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Not necessarily consistent, but it's similar.
		If you have not gone on, it's because you cannot accept the unconditional love of God.
		There is a creator.
		There is an afterlife.
		Our universe and 198 other universes are in the afterlife.
		It's a very big place.
		It's 200 zillion light years across.
		If the Earth was an electron, if the Earth was an electron, the size of an electron, the afterlife is 200 zillion light years across.
		And heaven, the Creator, the area that God dwells is 50 zillion light years across.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How can you know that?
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Because two things.
		One, it's a fractal, and it's a torus.
		It creates a torus field, so it's constantly moving.
		It's always vibrating.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That was torus, not torsion, right?
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, right.
		Taurus.
		Yeah, torus.
		It's an energy field inside.
		So it's a replica.
		It's a replica of what we see in these orbs, in this anatomy.
		So the consciousness of the afterlife is the same like these orbs.
		The anatomy is almost identical.
		And the Taurus is a common, common field effect in our reality.
		So it emulates from an intelligent mind through the frequencies to support our dimension.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		A lot of people who do photography, Doctor, get these orbs, and they think they're ghosts.
		Now, I'm somewhat more doubtful.
		I've done a lot of photography, and I've come up with orbs myself.
		But usually they're an artifact of the flash involved from Something, a reflection, something like that.
		I don't know how you differentiate.
		Certainly, not all things seen as orbs are ghosts or souls, right?
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
		That is correct.
		And we, over time, like any forensic, you know, anyone in forensics will see that if it's raining, you have to discount that.
		If there's snow, you have to throw that out.
		If there's fog, we have to throw that out.
		But I have seen these orbs in fog, and they are not raindrops, dewdrops, or whatever.
		Now, the other thing is, I'm comparing this with video.
		There is on my website something called Exterior Forces, which is a little mini-series.
		I have lectures on the paranormal.
		In episode 10, you'll see 30 minutes of non-stop orbs.
		And this is real-time video.
		I slow it down for the observer to see what I'm pointing out.
		And you will see that these are three-dimensional round objects moving amongst the people, flying by the camera.
		They are not insects.
		They are not aberitions.
		They are intelligent.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was about to say, I used to interview a fellow called Jose Escamilia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you know him?
unidentified		Yeah.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the rod guy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, that's right.
		Rods.
		Now, he sort of makes the same claim in a way, Doctor.
		He says, look, what I'm photographing, what I'm taking video of, these are not insects.
		These are living somethings, but not insects.
		In other words, he believes that they're entities of some sort.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you looked into that, his work?
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		I have looked into that.
		I cannot find what he finds, but this is an oddity.
		I don't know how much time we've got.
		I'll just throw this out real quick.
		There is a ghost walk in St. Charles.
		The gentleman who gives the tour is a very good friend of mine, and he goes from site to site and talks about ghosts that may inhabit this place.
		Well, when I, he was with a tour from Canada.
		I did not know them.
		They did not know me.
		And I'm sitting there filming this group as they walk down the street to go from location to location.
		I see a unique orb traveling with this group.
		And now I'm sitting there going, wait a minute, one of these people has either A, a guardian angel, B, a relative that has died recently and still connected to them, or C, unknown.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, when you say you saw an orb traveling with them, do you mean with your own human eyes you saw it?
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		No, no, not with my human eyes.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		With my equipment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, okay.
unidentified		What?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And your equipment is what?
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Infrared, high definition, black and white, set at the proper frequency to see this energy signature.
		Okay.
		Now, we go along.
		Now, I see this entity again, so I get really curious.
		And so it seems to be around one particular individual.
		I go up to that individual and I said, did you have a relative that died recently?
		And she said, my father died.
		And I said, I think he's with you right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		And throughout the rest of the tour, this entity stayed with the group.
		Now, what I'm trying to get to is when I processed that from videotape into my computer, it looked very similar to a rod, the squiggly lines.
		But on my videotape, it didn't.
		It was a solid white mass moving incredibly fast and maintaining an orbit around this group.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Not only did she say that her father died, her mother was there and gave me the same information.
		Wow.
		And the mother said she was his favorite child because they had several children.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		So there you have it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, here's another question for you.
		Since you know so much about the other side and there's a process.
		See, how can I put this?
		Does a ghost, after a period of time, find their way, or does their lack of faith, I guess would be a way to put it, that you claim keeps them here in the first place, have an opportunity to change and have them move on, or are they eternally here?
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		No, no.
		The whole idea is that they have to accept.
		If a person hates themselves so much, they'll never accept love.
		They'll never think they're good enough for love, and especially unconditional love.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Unconditional love shouldn't care.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, but let's say you don't think highly of yourself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		So I'm not going to accept that unconditional love because I'm not worth it.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		I'm not worth it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you lay in judgment of yourself.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Bingo.
		Exactly.
		And Daniel Brinkley has always said, he said two things to me one time.
		He says, you will always judge yourself and you'll see yourself in 3D being the biggest ass of your life because you'll get a past life review.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Terrifying.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		You can't have a 3D image, okay, because you're dead, right?
		But somehow the universe in the Akashic Records or the hall of libraries remembers your life individually in 3D.
		It can't do that unless it has an analog memory.
		Now, how can all this take place?
		We have 10,000 to 40,000 people with near-death experiences almost on a daily basis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, we do.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		And they come back and say amazing things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Some do.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, some do.
		I've listened to some of them put them on YouTube, and I've watched some with amazing fascination.
		But what they kind of talk about is that they are in a real place, a real place that exists in three dimensions.
		And they remember themselves, but slightly younger and better looking.
		Okay?
		To have memory, you have to have a loop.
		have to have a loop.
		Now, if you have a Taurus field that's rotating...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A loop is just that.
		It's a loop.
		We're going to break here.
		A loop is not consciousness, as I imagine it.
		The ability to think, reason, so forth.
		It's a loop.
		Just doing the same thing again and again.
unidentified		There was no do in that.
		I was captured by a star.
		But I could not get to that.
		At the terror in each sip and in each suck.
		Make a bed last offer cup or disappear into the button scrap.
		When the man comes around.
		Midnight matters are best handled by those that understand how to move in the darkness like Art Bell.
		To call the show, please dial 1-952-CALLART.
		That's 1-952-225-5278.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My guest is Dr. Michael Lynch, Ph.D., studying parapsychology for 27 years.
		Now, some people are ripping them apart over here, a couple anyway, on the wormhole, because of the reference to zillion.
		It was metaphoric.
		Of course, there's no such thing as zillion, please, folks.
		Come on, bear with us here.
		Just unmeasurable.
		Think of it that way, right, Doctor?
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Exactly, because it's a fractal design.
		And so the further you go into it, the further it looks.
		And you can go to almost infinity.
		So the idea is it's metaphorical.
		It's just to say that it's incredibly large and it's filled with energy.
		And it has trillions and trillions of different frequencies that are in that energy.
		Now, how all this becomes consciousness is a very unique digital problem.
		Every human has genes, a genetic code, and every gene has a frequency.
		This frequency, whatever it's resonating at, is where the energy of the afterlife creates this consciousness to interface with that genetic code.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, all right, all right.
		So before the break, we were talking about loops.
		And boy, have I heard a lot about this with respect to ghosts.
		It seems to me, and a lot of people have noticed loops.
		In other words, in a house that's haunted or near a haunted area, the ghost appears to do the same thing again and again and again and again.
		And to me, that's either not associated with consciousness as we understand it, or it's hell, because to be condemned to do the same thing again and again and again is hell.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		We all have that private thing.
		Now, when you study like post-traumatic stress, there is something, it's like a psychological wall that some people just can't get through.
		They just can't overcome.
		And this is a trauma.
		It's a psychological trauma.
		Now, whatever it is, this person becomes ashamed of not only their weakness, but of the trauma itself.
		So they cannot get past it.
		And that becomes what we would call a living hell.
		Now, when you die, the trauma is revealed to you in 3D.
		And if you can't get past it then, then that is what we'd call a hell.
		Because you live that loop over and over, and you can't break your cycle.
		You can't get out of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're saying that you're absolutely sure that in that loop there is a consciousness suffering it again and again and again.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And this occurs most frequently when there is a violent death of some sort.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, suicide, violence, something like that.
		Yeah, murder.
		There is a place in Tombstone, Arizona called the Bird Cage.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		And they almost kicked me out of there.
		But anyway, I went on the tour there and we saw several ghosts there.
		I proved all of their artifacts that were there.
		Now, at the end of the tour, we had a little seance.
		All right.
		Well, there is an entity in the birdcage, in Tombstone, that can try to somehow communicate through a speaker, a stereo speaker that has no connection.
		It's just bare wires at the end of it.
		There's a speaker sitting there, and you'll hear this static come across it.
		This is the entity shorting out the speaker wires and applying just enough current to it that it actually sounds like static interference and it's not plugged into anything.
		This entity is called Timothy or Timmy.
		I'm not really sure which one it was.
		Anyway, during the seance at the end of the tour.
unidentified		And you know this how, the name.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		The lady who Led the tour is psychic.
		And she claims that she had seen several full-blown-bodied entities early in the morning at that location, walking around like they owned the place, dressed in clothing from a period a hundred years ago.
		Now, she was leading the tour.
		She was convinced it's haunted, and she can hear, she's some type of audio cleric, where she can hear the voices.
		And there is this one that remains there at the birdcage, and he's either Timothy or Timmy.
		I can't, I don't remember which.
		But anyway, we were having the seance, and I had my equipment there, and I noticed one entity, but hang around.
		There was another one that attacked a gentleman who was sitting across from me.
		And so we had to break the seance circle.
		I picked up my equipment, and I watched as this orb, again, plasma, leave the back of his neck.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The back of his neck.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		And he was choking.
		We thought he was just nervous.
		And then suddenly he lost all ability, neuromuscular ability in his throat to even say that he was in pain.
		He was actually being choked or he felt like something was choking him.
		Well, I'm watching this on my camera and I see this orb eject itself out of the back of his neck and even in different stages of slow motion, it was dramatic.
		There was no physical cause because all of our hands, okay, there's no one there to choke him because all of our hands are connected.
		But when I videotaped this, I realized that if that is Timmy or Timothy or whomever that is there was using him to try to communicate, use his vocal cords, however, through a neuromuscular sense.
		Now, this guy, let me tell you a little bit about this guy.
		He was a soldier.
		He was going off to Afghanistan in 10 days.
		And him and his girlfriend came down to go to the birdcage just as tourists.
		So this guy is a straightforward, honest shooter.
		It took me 30 minutes after that to calm him down, to try to tell him that it wasn't his fault that he was attacked, and he was attacked by an entity that he could not see or defend himself against.
		And after that, he kind of said, okay.
		And then he said, you know, in 10 days I'll be in Afghanistan.
		So he was not, you know, a fly-by-night, excitable type.
		He was a trained soldier.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I have had people tell me, Doctor, that it is possible to trap an entity, or if you will, trap a ghost.
		Trap a soul, depending on how you want to look at it.
		Because I guess they could all be one and the same.
		But you can actually trap something.
		Is that true?
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		No.
		No, that is not.
		We tried for years.
		We were able to design a machine, but it's like Ghostbusters.
		The more you throw in there, the bigger the field to maintain it has to be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I would think one would be okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, if you can trap one entity, you can prove a lot, right?
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Oh, true, true.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		You could prove everything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're telling me that like in Ghostbusters, you would need an electromagnetic field to actually contain it?
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Contain it, correct.
		Because it would have to be a stronger electromagnetic field than the plasma field that it is in.
		So after you do these readings, you know, we decided that it was easier to keep an entity out by reversing certain polarities using a generator.
		We could wire a room very similar like a cage or Faraday cage or whatever, and we could reverse the polarity and keep them out easier than we could ever keep them in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it makes a nice safe room, I suppose, from entities.
		But other than that, I don't know.
		I kind of like the idea, perverse as it may be, of capturing something.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we've tried that, and the expense and the time and the coaxing became problematic.
		And so we didn't really give up on it.
		We actually have a design.
		You know, it's like capturing anything in the analog world.
		You just have to have the right design and you have to have some assistance.
		So it was easier for us to...
		And it's not belief.
		Believe you me, it's not belief.
		Some people say we can go on ghost hunts and we are never attacked.
		Nothing ever happens to us.
		And we just come back with a photo or whatever of a ghost or, you know, orb or whatever.
		And I say, yes, that's fine.
		But why aren't you possessed?
		And they just look at me like they're like stunned.
		They've never come across their mind before.
		And I said, well, either two things.
		The ghost didn't want to possess you, or you have some type of angelic guidance that is preventing you from being possessed.
		And so we developed a suit.
		It was kind of like a...
		And what it is, it's very fine wiring that's built into some type of capacitor.
		And as the entity drags electrons, because electrons really affect us in this reality, as they drag the electrons, the suit picks up the electrons and puts it in a capacitor.
		So those things don't affect us.
		They can't turn our reality against us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're saying you can actually suck a soul into a capacitor, which, of course, holds a charge.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Which would hold a charge.
		So what we're doing is we're bleeding off, we could virtually bleed off a lot Of it, a lot of that energy.
		Now, we couldn't really maintain it, but we could bleed it off.
		So, an entity like this gentleman who was scratched, that would have been preventable with the proper suit.
		He could have worn it.
		We actually came up with a halo.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In essence, you're grounding them out, right?
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		Exactly.
		We're just grounding them out using plain physics just to ground out their effect on us.
		Now, this gets into a different field, but we had actually worked up the schematics for all this, and then it got to a point where we had to kind of enlist the help of a psychic because we were getting into a point of saying, you know, are we becoming adversarial?
		I don't want to become adversarial.
		I just want to be, you know, pleasant with these entities.
		I don't want something to attack me that I can't see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, but how do you, if you're looking for a psychic, how do you decide the real McCoy versus all the frauds and fakes?
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, after you worked with one for 20 years, you get to know them pretty well, and you get to know what they can do.
		And so, once you get into what their specialty is, and they can pull information to you through that specialty, so if I hurt my knee, I don't go to a cardiac surgeon.
		I go to a kinesiology guy who's going to tell me about my knee.
		So you work with their ability, whatever that ability may be, to download information that you may be overlooking.
		There might be a better way.
		That's the idea of using a proper professional psychic is to save time, save money, and try to lock in on how this is all working out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It makes sense to me.
		I mean, I know there are people who have the ability to either call up or communicate with those on the other side.
		There are some people who really can do that, and then there's a bunch of fakes.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes, yes.
		I agree.
		I agree.
		I'm right there with you.
		So I happen to have bumped into one.
		You know, as serendipity or synchronicity happens, I bumped into one, and she was just kind of, you know, a natural born.
		She was naturally born.
		This was the way she was all of her life.
		She was a registered nurse.
		She had become a certified hypnotherapist.
		She had her own client base and things like this.
		But she wasn't aggressively seeking clients.
		So after a situation, a period of kind of getting used to each other's methods of operation, we realized, we realized very quickly that we had to double up.
		So if I have one colleague who's a still photography specialist, someone else in the team had to become a specialist in still photography.
		If someone was a video editor, an expert, someone else in the team had to, so we could always back each other up.
		But when it came to the psychic situation, we only had one.
		So we had to trust that one.
		Now, I had a proof is in the pudding, of course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So if your psychic can produce information saying, look, there's something here, and then you otherwise prove there is something there, pretty good.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		That's it.
		So when we go into a house, then she says there are six entities here, and I have videotaped or taken still photography and I've captured four.
		I know we're in the ballpark.
		We're in the ballpark.
		You know what I'm saying?
		So if she says they've left the house, then we will go outside.
		And nine times out of ten, we were investigating a school.
		It's supposed to have been haunted.
		We get in there.
		We don't find anything.
		I'm with another team.
		They can't find anything.
		And I just say, okay, if they're not inside, they're outside.
		So we walk outside, and there they are.
		These orbs are right outside.
		We're not only getting them on still cameras, we're getting them on video equipment.
		We walk back in.
		They follow us back in.
		And there they are.
unidentified		So, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've always been an orb skeptic.
		I'm sorry.
		I have been.
		On the other hand, what you've captured, I'm impressed by.
		I mean, you've got something different there.
		I don't know what you've got, but it's very different.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Now, I'm going to draw a little picture here.
		Okay.
		Now, we have the Max Planck Institute of how the universe is diagrammed.
		And it looks exactly like the human brain's neural network.
		Okay?
		So the entire universe is electromagnetically connected, just like the human brain.
		Not only just like, it is exactly like.
		So if you're really telepathic, or if you're really psychic, you can jump on this galactic superhighway and go to your power station setting off 1500 light years away and tell you exactly what it is.
		Why are we sending spaceships into space or whatever?
		When if we had the right psychic, the right capability, even technical remote viewing has evolved to a certain extent.
		We could be looking, NASA could say, here is the planet.
		One, two, three, go.
		And technical remote viewers come back with more data than ever.
		I had a friend of mine who was a NASA scientist, worked on the space shuttle program, and we were on a radio show together.
		And he pulled out the latest planet that NASA had found.
		And it was just slightly larger than Earth.
		But they could not figure out if it had life on it or what was going on.
		Well, he laid it down on the table.
		And I said, okay, I'll look at that.
		So I have recently become a very good dowser.
		And so I dowsed if our life could live on that planet.
		And the answer was no.
		Okay.
		Then a few more questions later, it comes back that the sun in that solar system is giving off lethal radiation to our type of life form.
		And that planet could not be colonized by us because we could not survive on the surface.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, okay, fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But that doesn't mean some other life doesn't survive there and thrive there.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		True, that's true.
		But to save time, instead of sending a spaceship out there, which would take years, we can send psychics first.
		Find the planets that are perfect for our life form.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's a good point.
		You know, some remote viewers are full of baloney.
		Other remote viewers are spot on.
		And you and I talked for a moment before the show.
		And of all the seers that I've had on my radio program, Evelyn Paglini, who claimed to be a witch, she has now passed on, hit everything on the mark.
		I mean everything that she said she saw coming.
		Brother, you could take it to the bank.
		It was coming.
		And I know you heard her, right?
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I remember that show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That woman was astounding.
		All right, hold it right there.
		We've got a break coming up, short one.
		I'm Art Bell.
		Dr. Michael Lynch is my guest.
unidentified		Dr. Michael Lynch is my guest.
		To reach midnight in the desert via Skype worldwide, if on a computer, please be sure to use a headphone mic and call MITD51.
		That's M-I-T-D-51.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's it.
		All right.
		Let me give you the quick talk, and then we're going to begin to take some calls.
		There are some people I know, Doctor, that are going to think you're a lunatic, absolutely crazy for thinking these things, and others not so much.
		It depends, I guess, on what you believe.
		So here we go.
		My public number is Area Code 952-225-5278.
		That's Area Code 952-225-5278.
		Not so much a lunatic, though, if you look at the photographs that he's got.
		That's pretty telling stuff.
		And then if you want to come in by Skype, you can come in that way as well.
		In North America, simply add us as a contact, and then we'll be on your contact list.
		So the little plus sign on Skype, you would put M-I-T-D 5-1.
		M-I-T-D-S Midnight in the Desert 5-1.
		And elsewhere in the world, M-I-T-D 5-5.
		M-I-T-D 5-5.
		And we do have a first-time caller line.
		Let me dig it out here.
		And a...
		Our first-time caller line is Area Code 775285-5800.
		Area code 775-285-5800.
		I know there's a lot of people out there that look at orbs and believe in orbs, and I have not been one of them.
		But I must say, what the doctor has captured on film here seems to me to be a very different sort of animal.
		Now, I had my producer look, Doctor, for the sound you talked about, I think it was sort of a grunt or a scream you mentioned that was on your website.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no.
		It's not on my website.
		It's on the radio station's website at 971Talk.com.
		Yeah.
		And it's under the Dave Glover Show or DGS Halloween.
		And I'm sorry, that's owned by the copyrights on the radio station's website.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
		All right.
		All right.
		Well, then scratch that idea.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but next time, if we do another show on EVPs, I'll definitely get their permission and we'll run some EVPs.
		There's another thing about this.
		We were doing an investigation, and I was shooting off some photography, and I caught a couple of orbs.
		And immediately I took the microphone, which was a wireless microphone, during this show, and I raised it up to the air, and I said, if there's anyone in the room who would like to talk to us, go right ahead, and now's your opportunity.
		And, well, everybody got upset because they thought I was hogging the show.
		And when they played the tape back, there were two voices on the recording exactly.
		So those dust specs were talking to me, which I don't think so.
		Or they knew English and they were speaking.
		They were speaking directly into the microphone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Odd, odd indeed.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Certain paradigms we have to shift to gain better perspective.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		It's just one of those things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How is the soul, or if you will, a consciousness created in the first place?
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		In afterlife, there is so much energy and there is so many frequencies that the frequencies have to set up with our genes.
		And so those frequencies are selected for our genetic profile.
		And that energy is inserted as we become a vessel.
		21 days before we're actually born, our consciousness into our genetic makeup.
		And so we are born with the consciousness for those genes.
		And this is where we get into a lot of debate on is it nature or nurture?
		Is it epigenetics or is it something else?
		Is it handed down?
		If you have an abnormality through genes, is it handed down and things like that?
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, here's Another one for you, Doctor.
		It has to do with reincarnation.
		The Buddhists firmly believe in reincarnation.
		I also believe that when a person dies, it seems as though their presence or whatever they are, their soul, seems to remain in the area for a certain amount of time, typically three or four days, and then they do move on.
		Have you heard anything like that?
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I've heard variations of stories.
		I've heard that sometimes it's every hundred years a person gets reincarnated, and I've heard it being within a few years.
		And in India, there was a little girl not too long ago who came out and said she was one of the astronauts who died in the space shuttle incident.
		She actually knew her father's name.
		She knew the college where she lived, and she was, you know, less than five or six years old.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that matches up so well with a recent movie called Eye Origins.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you see that?
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		No, I haven't seen that yet, though.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my.
		You should see that, trust me.
		All right, let's go quickly to Skype and start to take calls.
		Hello, there.
		You're on the air with Dr. Lynch.
		Skype?
		Hello, Skype.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, hi.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
		Gentlemen, good evening.
		Good evening.
		So I wanted to share an experience that I've been having.
		I had at one point heard you talk about the refresh rate on screen monitors and how that can affect perception.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		So I built some L C D glasses that can vary the blink rate and I've been playing with those and some very strange things have been happening.
		Such as synchronicity but continual.
		Like things happening that are so beyond the possibility of coincidence.
		And another thing that happened is...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Things that are so beyond coincidence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you mean?
unidentified		Well, for example, I would mention something and it would manifest itself in some totally unrelated way shortly thereafter.
		For example, I'd mention something to my wife and it would happen.
		I would do something and something would happen that's related, but no way they're connected, if that makes sense.
		But the second thing, the disturbing thing is a couple of days ago, I went into our house.
		I was working in the backyard and I couldn't find my wife.
		And I said, that's strange.
		Where did she go?
		And I went back in the kitchen and she was sitting there.
		And I said, oh, where were you?
		She says, well, I've been sitting here all the time.
		And I thought, well, that's odd.
		The next morning, I woke up, and for a brief second, I saw an entity standing beside me.
		And a brief fraction of a second later, it was as if I reawoke.
		The fabric in the background changed, and that entity was gone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Very weird.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very weird indeed.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, thank you for the call and the story.
		Doctor, I had a recent experience.
		It was, I don't know, weeks before I actually began doing this program in July that I'll describe to you briefly.
		And you can make of it what you will.
		I was working, and this is why he mentioned what he mentioned.
		I was working late at night on my computer, and I was doing research for this show coming up.
		You know, I knew I was about to be on the air in July.
		So, sitting in my computer for hours, late at night, after my family had long gone to bed, hours and hours in front of that computer, looking up stories and things.
		And all of a sudden, on my right, I saw what was a human figure shape, Doctor.
		And it startled me really badly.
		It scared me.
		And it blinked away, and I looked behind me.
		Why, I don't know, but there it was behind me.
		At this point, I'm terrified.
		I mean, really terrified.
		I swung back to the left, and oh my God, it's right there to the left of me.
		And then gone.
		And it really didn't have appendages to it, but it was a human form.
		Head, torso, something where the leg should be.
		I don't know what this thing was.
		I call it a shadow person.
		I guess we can call it whatever you want to call it.
		What is a shadow person anyway?
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Basically, a shadow person is something that's absorbing light energy, and that's why they look like a shadow.
		They're darker.
		They're absorbing light, and they're not reflecting light.
		Is it a ghost?
unidentified		Yeah.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		We have to walk a fine line here.
		Now, okay, everybody thinks I'm on the crazy side.
		Anyway, so let's say it's not a ghost, then what would it be?
		And then it would be a psychic projection of an entity.
		So let's say there is someone incredibly telepathic or remote viewer, and accidentally they're viewing you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry, why is it not as likely to be a ghost?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it because of this energy deal?
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, on the flip side, let's say it's a ghost.
		If it was, it would be able to, at that size of energy, to memorize this entire body, should be able to move something, it should be able to reappear and at later dates be interactive, be more interactive.
		Now you have some wanderers that just wander through the neighborhood and they just move on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not seeking this stuff, Doctor.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		No, no, you don't have to.
		No, it's curious about you.
		It's just curious about you.
		Here's our bell legendary radio announcer.
		Let's look over his shoulder and see what he's looking at.
		And curiosity on the other side is very curious.
		We used to go to this one place, which was incredibly haunted, and we would open the door.
		We'd have to start videotaping when we opened the door.
		And as we opened the door, the two little balls of light would be sitting right there waiting for us.
		And then within a few minutes, they were gone.
		They didn't care about us anymore.
		We weren't exciting enough for them or whatever.
		And so they'll meet you at the door.
		They're curious.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		We're in the final hour here.
		Let's take a call.
		Spartanburg, South Carolina, believe.
unidentified		Hello, Laura.
unidentified		How are you today?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm okay, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're on the air.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
		Just wanted to let the gentleman know, or I had a question, right?
		I saw a full-bodied entity, and I didn't know that that was possible, but it stands over along Interstate 40 in Tennessee.
		And I'm an amateur radio operator also.
		And when you drive by this entity, and this has happened many times, I can actually hear the entity on the 20-meter and 80-meter bands.
		And I knew that they communicate electronically.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're hearing them on the radio, really?
unidentified		Yeah, right.
		On the HL.
		And I never knew that this was possible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I know there's some evil entities on 75 meters, no question about that.
unidentified		I agree with you, Today, exactly.
		All right.
		Yeah, I just wanted his opinion of that.
		I just never knew the full body could do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, so, Doctor, they can project themselves, if they can project themselves to a recorder and become an EVP, then it seems to me they could project themselves to the radio, to the radio spectrum if they wanted to, right?
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		There are something like a police scanner that scans hundreds of frequencies.
		And you can run this apparatus and it will start to scan.
		And when it hits a frequency, you may get several words.
		You may get a couple.
		I've seen this apparatus actually work.
		They call different names, the ghost box or ghost antenna and things like that.
		And as it scans, you'll actually be able to pick up certain conversations.
		Other people have tried to narrow in the frequencies, but sometimes they change per entity to entity.
		There is something called, I forget what the name of it is, is some triangle out east.
		And if you drive through it, you'll see apparitions alongside the road.
		Sometimes they're Native American Indians or they're the red coats, you know, from a different time.
		There is also the ancient story of Resurrection Mary, where she comes out of the cemetery in Chicago, and she'll be walking alongside the road, and people will pick her up, think she's absolutely real, deliver her, and she disappears.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Dodger, it's not that I want to see anything.
		Thank you very much.
		However, it was my theory that staring at that computer screen for that long period of time affected me, that the refresh rate of the computer screen affected my brain after a while.
unidentified		Now, that's just a wild...
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Hypnosis is a form of hypnosis.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		The 60 cycles or the 120 cycles form in the mind, the subconscious brain, and you start becoming hypersensitive to suggestion and auto-suggestion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just my theory.
		Okay, listen, a lot of people.
		I'm somebody who doesn't want to find these things because I'd rather not see them, thank you.
		But if somebody actually wants to find a ghost, Doctor, what is the best advice you can give those who would wish to actually see them?
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		You would have to go to some place that's public and that advertises that they're haunted, and then you could take your equipment with you.
		Like I said, sometimes a steel camera is better than a video camera if you don't have the right frequencies, but that's the way you kind of get started.
		I don't recommend going to cemeteries, but at night they have certain restrictions, and I've been to several at night, and I don't get a lot of evidence.
		I get more evidence walking down the street, like I got more evidence walking down the street of Tombstone, Arizona, than I did inside the birdcage.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, that's really, really interesting because the best EV people I know also say they don't get their best evidence in cemeteries.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They've got places like prisons.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, places where...
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		The Loop.
unidentified		Uh-uh.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		You can't forgive yourself.
		You're not good enough.
		And you have to stay in that prison because you just can't pass that reality.
		So what do you hear?
		You hear the same things over and over.
		They're new conversations, but you get that EVP because they can't break out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		See, that is legitimately scary to me to imagine being caught in a loop.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		With consciousness doing the same damn thing again and again and again.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		You can't forgive yourself.
		So when someone comes around, you're in my space, they become territorial or predatorial.
		And so normally when you're like in a prison or an asylum, they become very predatorial and territorial.
		So they'll almost want you off their property and they'll do whatever they can.
		I mean, I think in certain cases, not to step on Barry Taft's toes, but I had a case where a lady was being sexually assaulted by an entity.
		And we could videotape the entity.
		So we knew it was there.
		What shocked her was she thought it was all a psychosis until we actually showed her the videotape of the entity in her bedroom when she got home.
		And so we had to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're telling me you have video of this?
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I've got it in my library.
		I mean, I've got years.
		Ever since 2000, we have, you know, and then prior to that, we experimented on frequencies in order to see this.
		So we get into certain private matters, you might say, that, you know, I can't reveal names or locations, but we get into certain situations that don't make any sense to us.
		But if you're just free-flowing energy and you're caught in the, you know, self-ridicule, self-hatred, you'll never break out.
		You'll never break that loop.
		And that's why when you go to these prisons, you go to these asylums, their minds can't forgive themselves.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, apparently that is a good hunting location if you really want to find these things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		JN on Skype, hello.
unidentified		Hello, Art Bill.
		This is Jeremy in Aranzas Pass.
		Thanks for having me on.
		Art Bill, I've been listening to you since 94, 95, and this is my first time to get to talk to you, so I'm really excited.
		Mr. Dr. Lynch, great show tonight, man.
		I'm really enjoying it a lot.
		A quick little thing, and then I'll let you get on with some other people.
		I'm sure there's plenty of people who like to talk to you.
		When I was young, and we had this ranch out in Goliad, I used to wake up a lot of times with scratch marks all over my stomach.
		Now, when I was a kid, I never told nobody that because I was more or less scared.
		And I know it wasn't from playing or something like that, but I remember them being almost like five fingers, which you would notice, and they'd be like on my stomach and on my...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you feel it happen to you at the moment it happened, or only when you woke up did you see this stuff?
unidentified		Yeah, only when I woke up.
		It was like, you know, I never felt it in the night, you know.
		It was always like whenever I woke up the next day, and it was only when I went to the ranch.
		It was only when I went up there and we spent the time at the ranch with my grandparents and stuff.
		It never happened to me like at my house where we lived.
		It was always only at the ranch.
		And, you know, I know it wasn't from playing because I was a pretty careful kid.
		You know, I would remember these scratches.
		But I just remember him being, you know, the size of a hand and they would be on my stomach and they would be sometimes on my chest and even, I think, sometimes on my back.
		But I would just like to get Mr. Lynch's retrospect on that.
		Dr. I appreciate you having come.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
		That entity was trying to get your attention and not trying to lethally harm you.
		So that entity was in that room while you were there all the time.
		Now, you don't have the ability.
		We're not telepathic.
		We don't have the ability to find out what they really wanted, but they were just trying to nudge you to get your attention for some reason.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, it sure gets my attention.
		You know, some of what we talk about, yeah, you know, you can either believe it or not believe it.
		But when you have these scratches.
		I mean, really bad, bad scratches, as depicted on our website, the photograph you sent.
		My God, you know, that just doesn't come from nothing.
		Or in this case, sort of in a way, I guess it does.
		Let's go to Silverdale, Washington.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hi.
silverdale in washington ▲ ● ▼		I just won.
		Hi, Art.
		Hello, Dr. Lynch.
		I wanted to say, years ago, I took a class with a lady, and during the class, psyched class, she was talking about the fact that her father, she would go to the Akashic records at night for the class, and she said she'd always be her father who had passed.
		He was a French soldier, and he had passed years before.
		And he was laying there always with, looked like angels around him working on him.
		And she'd see him every night, and they would reassure her he'd be all right.
		And she told our class one time about it, and I just got kind of guided.
		We'll work on him tonight by my guides.
		And the next morning, when we went to our class, she said the most wonderful thing had happened.
		She said he had come that night, and it's the only time he'd ever done it.
		And he sat on her bed and said he was fine now.
		And they conversed a little bit, and then he left.
		And she said, I know he's fine.
		And she said, I didn't see him laying there that night in the Akashic records on the way to the Akashic records.
		So I think he probably needed to forgive himself for something that happened during the war is what she felt, too.
		So it was probably a matter of forgiveness.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the odd thing is that there's a lot of things that we talk about, like angels and miracles, and the Vatican has a whole room of these things.
		We look at them very lightly, but at the same time, the energy to do this is out there.
		And it's a medium, it's a matrix of energy that's fueling not only this reality, it's fueling this reality in a way that our conscious mind is looking at it.
		And then we can alter it if we so desire.
		So to have psychoanalysis on the other side with angels or superior beings or guides, I say absolutely.
		I say, why not?
		And we may be totally embarrassed once we get on the other side of our lifestyle or our lives or whatever, but at the same time, if we can forgive ourselves, accept this next life, then we are reimmers in that energy and we are reconnected on the same level.
		So my energy is absorbed back in and all my memories come back.
		I can go back to all my past lives, all my future lives, if I so desire.
		It becomes infinite, infinite, infinite time, infinite space, because you're nothing but energy.
		If we look at the process, even Einstein said, if you go to the speed of light, time stops.
		Well, if you're just pure energy, electricity, if you're just pure electricity, you have no time, zero time.
		It's when you drop out of that is when linear time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, that makes sense.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, earlier you were saying zillion and that doesn't, but I mean, you're talking about infinity, basically.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, let's just say infinity, yeah.
		So when you start looking at that and the infinite energy that's backing that up and how that connects to the genetic code in your body, the genetic matrix, then we start to see that we're interconnected.
		We're in a medium of not sub we're in subatomic energy, we're in subatomic plasmas, and this is a benevolent, gentle energy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, you're throwing around a lot of phrases that I don't understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Genetic matrix.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, no, I hate to say that we were back in the Cold War, but there is a Russian scientist, a Russian biophysicist who's talking about molecular biology.
		And he's talking about the DNA and how it resonates.
		And that they think in Russia now that by using certain DNA frequencies, they can cure genetic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wait a minute.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What's a DNA frequency?
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Well, we all are resonating.
		We all, our DNA is resonating at frequencies related to our body, our genetic code, our genetic blueprint.
		And the Russians think that they can use other frequencies, energy plasma frequencies probably, and they can correct DNA or manipulate DNA or genes at the cellular level.
		So there's other people looking at this.
		And if we're all resonating, that means we're harmonic.
		Now, I was in Europe and I went to this museum for harps.
		And I was just amazed at these harps.
		And these people were playing these harps in a symphony.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're leading me all over the place here.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, I'll tie it up.
		So these harps are resonating strings.
		And if each part of my gene is a resonating string, we are a symphony of vibration, a symphony of energy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm going to actually have a guest on audio energy.
		It's a very, very interesting subject.
		Somebody named Chad's on Skype very quickly.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hey, Art.
		Hey, Doctor.
		I'm calling from Vegas.
		Quick question.
		You see all of these shows on TV where these investigators are going out and they're investigating prisons and asylums and that type of thing, but none of them ever talk about the possible attachments that these ghosts or entities or whatever could attach to them and go home with them and cause havoc.
		I can take my answer off the air, but what are your thoughts on that?
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		God blesses the naive mind.
		I'm just going to say they are incredibly fortunate if they don't take something home with them or something doesn't follow them home.
		And that is something that...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think that I've been warning a friend who's using this program, this app, to find ghosts.
		It's like, in my mind, it's like using a Ouija board.
		You're going to invite something into your life and you're not sure what you're inviting into your life and you may not be able to un-invite it from your life.
		In other words, once you get something hanging around you, you've said it yourself.
		Those orbs, those energy balls, whatever they are, those spirits may not leave.
		Once you invite them in, they may not leave like a bad guest at night.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Speaking of the Ouija board, later on this week will be going back to the Exorcist House in St. Louis.
		Uh-huh.
		And that's a story within itself.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's a story that'll have to wait.
		We've got a break coming up.
		National number, area code 952-225-5278.
		Or, of course, on Skype.
		Dr. Michael Lynch is here.
unidentified		When I cry, you go back.
		Cause you know me.
		I'm in you.
		Imaginary lovers will never turn you down when all the others turn you away their love.
		To initiate a dialogue sequence with Art Bell, please coordinate your Valanges and call 1-952-225-5278.
		That's 1-952-CALLART.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, okay, my guest is Dr. Michael Lynch, and he's been investigating our psychology and these kind of events for 27 years.
		27 years.
		That's a very long time.
		And he's pretty well convinced these orbs that people see are the real McCoy.
		Now, the orbs that he showed in the photographs, I think, are astounding.
		They're not like the orbs I've seen, just the light blobs that you see in photographs.
		And a lot of people believe in those.
		Anyway, if you want to join us, national number is Area Code 952-225-5278.
		The first time caller line is Area Code 775-285-5800.
		775-285-5800.
		And of course, on Skype at MITD51 or MITD55.
		And Doctor, you're back on the air again.
		Yes.
		Okay, let's explore what we've got on the phone for you.
		And on the first time caller line, you are on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hello, Art.
		Hi.
		I am a huge fan.
		I just want to say I'm so happy that you're back.
		But I just wanted to call in and talk about attachments for a moment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Attachments.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean like to email?
unidentified		Well, no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, not those, huh?
unidentified		The spooky ones that I was unaware of until I had one.
		Your guest was mentioning locations such as prisons or things like that.
		This is our regular hospital where you're hospitalized and your stay isn't very comfortable depending on what you're there for.
		But I had an emergency surgery and ended up being there for a couple days and something came home with me.
		And I didn't realize it until weeks later.
		I had just a lot of depression and I didn't know why.
		I felt really gloomy.
		And anyways, it took quite the toll on me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you know, excuse me, how do you know something came with you?
unidentified		Well, I didn't know it at first.
		It took some time for me to realize because I kept questioning myself and wondering why I would feel a certain way or these mood changes.
		And it really wasn't until I was actually revisiting one of your shows with Malachi Martin.
		And he was talking a lot about, you know, your mood and people who can, you know, feel energy or negative energy and those sorts of emotions that can take over, you know, even just with...
		No, it just felt like, I mean, part of me is present, you know, like I am right now, but some of these emotions would come over me and I just was wondering where it was coming from.
		And eventually, you know, I found out by meeting with a person who had a lot of, you know, I guess psychic ability and, you know, asked me questions.
		And it took a lot of digging.
		But when, you know, I found that out, it was a little scary.
		It was like, you know, that ride at Disneyland where a ghost follows you home.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So how did you get away from this?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or did you?
unidentified		Well, I did.
		It took a lot of energy just to basically what it is, is, you know, we are all lights and we are all, you know, energy.
		And I think what happened possibly is when someone isn't ready to go and they're, you know, in the hospital and, you know, they have that moment of being released from their body.
		You know, they perhaps they're stuck there and they're trapped or maybe they're trying to find that light in other people and they attach to it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's ask.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doctor, if you're close to somebody, for example, in the hospital and they pass away, is it possible they attach to you?
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Yes, it is.
		Now, sometimes that's not necessarily true.
		Many people who die in the hospital are...
		There is always someone standing by, a relative, angel, whatever.
		But sometimes they just can't give up that mortal coil.
		And so they will attach to someone who is healing because the energy from the wound somewhat bleeds out to repair the skin, repair the body, and they can survive off of that.
		I've got an interesting story is spooky that a friend of mine who's also a partner in my organization, she hypnotized a gentleman who had chronic shoulder pain.
		She hypnotized him and pulled him kind of out of his body to look around psychically and notice that there was an attachment on his shoulder where he was receiving that pain.
		And then she said, okay, if there's anyone from the other side who would like to come and get this attachment and take them to the other side, please do.
		And then she asked the gentleman, what is happening now?
		And he said, well, under hypnosis, he said, God called his name and he went into the light.
		The man came out of hypnosis, didn't remember anything because she erases that memory.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me guess, the pain was gone.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		Now, this also happened with another patient who swore up and down.
		She had arthritis in her ankle.
		And she had a brace on it.
		And her doctor said, you have arthritis.
		After hypnosis and after entity detachment, she got up and walked out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		After an entity detachment.
		Okay.
		Okay, ma'am.
		Thank you very much for the call.
unidentified		Thank you.
		Thank you so much.
		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
		Yeah.
		Okay.
		So those kind of attachments are not only possible, but I mean, what if you work in a hospital, if you're a nurse or a doctor, how do you avoid such attachments?
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		I don't know.
		But my partner in this is also a registered nurse.
		So she's not only a registered nurse, she's also a registered hypnotherapist.
		And so she works in the psychiatric ward of a major hospital here in St. Louis.
		And she sees all types of abnormal behavior.
		Now, some of it's controlled through chemicals and drugs, and others just requires a little bit of, you know, conditioning, you know, socialized conditioning.
		But she says what we're up against on the other side is uncontrollable because we have to deal with it on its level.
		So whatever level it's at.
		So if it's cowering in fear or regret or dread, all that bleeds through.
		And if that attaches to someone, then they're going to suffer that.
		It's not a possession.
		It's not a possession, but it does play with their mind.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So here's a question for you.
		If somebody calls you, I would imagine with the work you do, you would get calls from people distressed with an attachment or with a haunting or with, you know, do you get these calls?
		And if so, how do you react to them?
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		I go over the trouble list, you know, the list of things do they have migraine headaches are they suffering from any chronic pain no what I mean is do you actually go to people we go yeah, we can go and investigate and get it on get evidence for them either audio or video or still photography hand it over to them and then say what would you like us to do because you're not crazy there is something in your house you know what would you like us to do and then I hand it over to the psychic the psyche calls in angels
unidentified		or whatever she needs to do and clears the house and I have seen this on video it the entities just sweep through and they don't come back okay going to Skype you're on the air with Dr. Lynch hi Roswell's art and hello there Dr. Lynch pleasure to have you on the program and to be listening tonight I just wanted to call in and sort of validate a previous caller's experience tuning
		in through the radio and hearing what he said were sort of spirits or phenomena oh yes yes yes and those spirit boxes I'm telling you Art those things are 100% real.
		They're valid.
		I've heard dozens of hours and seen from dozens of different devices clear, concise communication, entire sentences long to direct questions.
		And this stuff is so real.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I sure would like to hear recordings.
unidentified		Oh, an excellent person that does this almost on a daily basis, video, audio, thousands of dollars of equipment, top quality.
		His name is Steve Huff.
		And he doesn't do it for money or anything, but he's not even better if he doesn't do it for money.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I really am a hands-on guy.
		I want to see, that's why I was impressed by the doctor's photographs tonight.
		I want to see evidence, either photographic evidence or I want to hear it or whatever.
		So if he's got actual, you said sentences, right?
unidentified		Yes.
		Stephen Huff has whole sentences from dozens of different boxes, communications with dozens of spirits.
		It's all up on YouTube, so it can all be validated.
		But I have one quick question for the doctor in relation to these.
		Sometimes these spirit boxes get used by people who are speaking in English, but they do it in countries where that's not the primary language, say in Mexico or someplace in Europe.
		And they're still getting responses, even though they're in another language.
		Would the doctor perhaps have a possible explanation as to why that's the case?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'd love to hear it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Doctor?
		There is a gentleman in Kansas City who does EVPs, and he gets EVPs in foreign languages.
		Not only in English, he gets them in Hawaiian and some other American native dialect.
		Not all of them are in English.
		I think it's just the entity's way of trying to communicate.
		I don't understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So here's a question, Doctor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do entities remain in the general physical area where they passed?
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		No, not necessarily no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In that case, we ought to be getting EVPs in Swedish, German, Japanese, Chinese, French, yes.
unidentified		All of it, right?
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		If you go to those countries and let's just say you go to a family who's had a recent death.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, wait a minute.
		You're reversing yourself.
		You're saying, yeah, if you want to hear it in Japanese, go to Japan.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, exactly.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then, wait a minute.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Entities do remain in the area of their passing.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I'm sorry.
		Yes, right.
		But I'm sure that if you had Japanese in America, just like these Canadians were in America, and the entity followed them here, they could easily be in America and converse with them in Japanese.
		They could be with the family, not necessarily with the place.
		But the rule of thumb is a person, place, or thing can be haunted or attached.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Very quickly to the phones.
		Hi, you're on there with the doctor.
		Hello?
unidentified		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, hello.
unidentified		Oh, hi.
		Yeah, this question is for the doctor.
		So I go to a school that actually used to be an insane asylum in California.
		It's called California Asylum.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, no, no, no.
		Don't tell me.
		I don't need the name.
unidentified		No, no names.
		Okay, all right.
		Sorry about that.
		Yeah, I used to be an insane asylum.
		So I'm calling from the dorm right now.
		My father used to work at the insane asylum.
		And I was just wondering if there's a way to either, you know, like on both sides of the spectrum, stay away from any kind of activity or maybe, I guess, invite any kind of activity if I want to, you know, just, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you want to do, sir?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You want to invite it or do you want to stay away?
unidentified		You know, both.
		I'm not really sure, I guess.
		I guess, yeah, I want the doctor's opinion on that.
		All right, doctor, so shouldn't you?
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		He should not invite it.
		No, I'm of the content that no one wants another person's lifestyle imposed upon themselves.
		So, no, I don't classify to invite it or do anything like that.
		I don't even recommend them having a school.
		These buildings like this that remain dormant clear across the country should be destroyed.
		They should be destroyed.
		Really?
		And even though the entities would probably move on, they need to be cleared through some type of clergy or psyche to pass these people on, to pass them on so there's no residue of them occupying this space.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, see, here's what I don't get.
		You say that that can be cleared, that those spirits can be, I guess, sent on.
		Is that correct?
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Sent on.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		Sent on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, but on the other hand, you said so many are caught in a loop in judgment of themselves and that nothing moves.
dr michael lynch ▲ ● ▼		Nothing can move them.
		Right.
		This is because the structures are still there.
		The prisons are still standing.
		The old asylums are still there.
		They're still standing.
		And they have a residue of energy that, you know.

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