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Sept. 14, 2015 - Art Bell

02:15:36

Art Bell MITD - Charles Maxwell Crop Circles

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46:16

charles maxwell

48:18

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Speaker	Time	Text
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a joy to be here tonight.
unidentified		Definitely.
		Welcome back for another week of whatever.
		It's going to be a lot of very good whatever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The rules to this program are very simple, easily kept, no bad language, and only one call per show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's all we have.
unidentified		Two rules.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, I want to thank people, as usual.
		Tell us, Joe Talbot, Pete Rowland, my webmaster, Heather Wade, my producer, StreamGuys, LV.net, Sales, of course, Pete Everhart.
		And TuneIn Radio, which gets us out there.
		Leo Ashcraft that does Dark Matter News.
		And let's see, what do I want to mention?
		There is something tonight.
unidentified		If you are a...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can't spill the beans, but something really big, a couple of big things actually are going to happen in about two weeks with regard to the show.
unidentified		Really cool stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So here's what I advise.
		If you are not yet a time traveler, if you are not yet one who has access to our archives, which are getting very large now, by the way, and Time Traveler status gives you that, access to all our archives, RSS feeds, cool.
		And also the wormhole.
unidentified		The famous wormhole.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you haven't done that yet, I suggest you get on it, and it will be apparent why.
		Now, we did lose one today, and it is so sad.
		It was Quick Carl who decided to leave us.
		He says he is canceling his subscription directly, both to myself and Richard, because of what people on Belgab have been saying about his wife and the fact that MV, the guy who owns it, has done nothing to stop it.
		This is sad, Quick Carl.
		Sorry to hear it.
		However, Quick Carl, I'm told, hangs out in the political section of Belgab, which is like hanging out in the hottest section of hell.
		I mean, I'd rather go to the dark net with my Social Security tatted on my forehead here.
		But so how that happened and why he blames it on us, I don't know.
		But anyway, there you go.
unidentified		Win a few, lose a few.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The fires out west are horrible.
		Horrible, horrible.
		We have been getting a great deal of smoke here in the southern part of Nevada from those fires.
		So we know how bad they are.
		But we're not in them.
		And now they're up north, small mountain town north of San Francisco, which was really nice back when they had the bad fires before and opened all their schools and everything up.
		And now that town itself, Middletown, is evacuated and it is gutted by another blaze that shocked firefighters by its strength and speed.
		It's the drought.
		And those are all things coming home to roost.
		And then if we get the projected rain this winter, the fires will at least then be put out by the mudslides.
		I would imagine.
		All right, I get emails, you know, from people that are strange.
		This one really caught me, and I don't know what to make of it.
		It says, I'm going to get right to the point.
		You're going to love this.
		On December 21st, 2010, my girlfriend climbed the ladder that went up to the attic.
		I asked her what she was doing, didn't get a response.
		I grabbed her legs, and she was like stone.
		I couldn't move her.
		She was half in, half out of the attic, legs still on the ladder.
		When she finally came down, she was a completely different person, talking different, acting like a 50s housewife.
		She actually started cleaning, and that's what scared me.
		Funny, right?
unidentified		Well, in the video, he's got video of all this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		She says things I couldn't possibly understand.
		You can hear her growling after I ask her to tell me that Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior.
		Well, maybe she was in talking to that fellow I had on Friday that I couldn't find competition for.
		It's not that God is dead, just some of his people are not real active.
		Anyway, back to the story.
		She says all this mockingly, kind of laughs.
		There are orbs that are constantly flying around the room, which I only saw in the video.
		I even showed her a porno magazine to see what she'd say.
		I got a strange response.
		Put your playthings away, she said, something like that.
		Normally, she would have beaten me.
		Really?
		I would like you to see it, the video that is, get your opinion.
		But you only don't, I don't want it public just yet.
		There are three videos, and in the last one, she admits to never going into the room she just cleaned.
		The next day, I went into the attic and called out anything that might be there claiming that I was a man of God, and you better come face to face with me.
		There was a rocking chair.
		I touched it, and it fell to pieces.
		There's just so much to tell.
		But this is a strange story, indeed.
		So I have requested the video, he says, Roswell's, and thank you.
		So I requested the video.
		I definitely want to see that.
unidentified		Like she...
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He started cleaning.
		That's what really scared him.
		I'm sorry.
		Coming up in a moment, Charles Maxwell, who was born in London and will have an appropriate accent, where he attended Millfield and has been overheard telling people quite proudly that Jeremy Clarkson of Top Gear did also.
		Well, he didn't, actually.
		Maxwell attended Southern Methodist University in Texas and graduated with a degree in English.
		He attended graduate school at the University of Colorado, Denver.
		While making a field full of secrets, that's his book.
		Maxwell discovered the stunning hidden science of crop circles, which led him down the path of rendering designs into a 3D machine, a ship driven by never-before-seen propulsion technology.
		Maxwell lives in Malibu, California.
		This is very contact-ish, isn't it?
		A machine from Crop Circles?
		I recall, well, anyway, let us bring on our guest and say good evening.
		Good evening, Charles.
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Good evening, Lott.
		Thank you so much for having me.
		I'm very excited about this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very happy to have you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So where are you located right now?
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		I'm actually in North Malibu.
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		That's where I reside when I'm not making films.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You are there, okay.
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		So you're a filmmaker.
		You're not using a speakerphone, are you, Charles?
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not.
		No.
		I'm on the handset.
		Is it working okay?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You just must be in a slightly echoey room.
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		I am.
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I'm in a very rectangular stone room, so you're going to get a bit of an echo.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I'll live with it.
		All right.
		So the first question here is, what is a crop circle?
		And I don't want to ask that because I kind of know what one is, and I think most of my audience knows what crop circles are, unless you have a definition that goes beyond the norm.
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		I don't, actually.
		I'm on the same page as you.
		Crop circles are pretty self-explanatory.
		But I think for me, what was really important is I've been a UFO buff for many years, as long as I can remember.
		And just like many of your listeners, I'm really interested in what's out there.
		But I got frustrated with all these videos.
		There just seem to be a few pixels dancing around on a screen.
		There's very little science we can do with that for those of us who are actually interested in getting to the bottom of the phenomenon.
		Very true.
		So it was a fantastic opportunity for me.
		It's not a pixel, it's a giant formation in the wheat.
		Sometimes if the farmer is kind enough, he will leave it there until harvest.
		You can have a picnic in this thing.
		You can stay in them to your heart's desire with his permission, the farmers.
		And you can do some really simple experiments.
		You can look at the plants in depth.
		So it was a real chance for someone like me who is fascinated by the sense of the other to go and really find out what was going on.
		And again, I have to be brutally honest.
		The first time I looked at crop circles, I wasn't impressed.
		But when I actually stepped into a crop circle, everything changed dramatically.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What did you feel?
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Well, my first crop circle was a formation called the Pie Circle in 2008 in a place called Barbary Castle in Wiltshire, England.
		And I felt overwhelmed.
		It really threw me for a loop.
		Again, imagine, I'm sure this is easy for listeners to imagine, that you've been searching for so long and then you're suddenly up against the real thing.
		It's a bit unnerving.
		It's a bit spooky to actually be walking around in a circle where you look at the plants and you say, goodness me, I don't think this is fake.
		I think this is the real deal.
		That's just about the most exciting feeling you can have in the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Instead of asking what a crop circle is, since we all know, I'd rather ask, how do you separate the wheat from the chaff?
		No pun intended.
		Yeah.
		With regard to crop circles, the real ones, the fake ones.
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		And what it boils down to is it's literally this simple.
		Jeff Wilson is an American researcher with the ICCRA.
		That's the International Crop Circle Research Association.
		And he says it's this simple, folks.
		All you need is a ruler and 35 samples from in the circle, 35 from without the circle, which we call our control.
		And then you measure the length of something called the apical node of the plant.
		Now, whether it's barley or wheat, these freestanding stalks, they have knuckles, just like your finger.
		And what happens is when we measure them statistically, these knuckles in certain formations, there is a significant difference between the controls.
		They have elongated, and in certain instances, we're getting a bit ahead of ourselves here, we have something called an expulsion cavity in that apical node in the plants, where it literally explodes from the inside out, rather like a channel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, and the conventional thinking is that probably it indicates some sort of microwave has been at work.
		Hold on one second.
		I didn't do my break-in, so I better do it.
		They insist on this stuff.
		Charles Maxwell is my guest.
		And quick, Carl, this one goes out to you.
unidentified		Oh, it was beautiful, magical.
		And all the birds in the trees may be singing so happily.
		I'm your Venus.
		I'm your fire.
		Your desire.
		From the Kingdom of Night in the High Desert, this is Midnight in the Desert.
		With Heart Bell, please ring Art Bell at 1-952-225-5278.
		That's 1-952-Call Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And the answer is because I like Zural Harmony.
		Always have.
		You're wondering why I like this song.
		All right, so Charles Maxwell is our guest.
		And I was mentioning that generally those little explosions, you know, I've spent years with Crop Circles, Linda, and I became convinced beyond any shadow of a doubt that some of them are real, as in not man-made and not done by the environment.
		And that doesn't leave much.
		So I believe in them, but I also believe that a bunch of them are hooey.
		And that is one way you decide, I guess.
		Nobody's going to be in the field with a microwave oven snapping those things.
		So that's one clue for sure.
		What else?
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, definitely.
		The expulsion cavities are pretty hard to fake.
		What we also get, and this has been recorded by people like Dr. Terence Meaden, again Jeff Wilson with the ICCRA, and a group called BLT Research, who were the superstars of the science aspect of this phenomenon.
		And what all of those folks noticed was they went into these formations with magnetometers, with various sensitive instruments, and they were able to detect some kind of pollution, microwave and plasma pollution, in various circles.
		And it fluctuated.
		Some circles would be very heavy in microwave, and some would be very heavy in plasma.
		And so they looked at this and they said, well, what, and obviously we're ignoring the fakes here, but in these microwave and these plasma circles, what's happening to the plants?
		What's happening to the physiology?
		And in fact, Leavenger, W.C. Leaving, who's part of this BLT research team, he's no longer with us, unfortunately.
		He passed away last year.
		He was a botanist, and he actually published in peer-reviewed journals on this.
		So this is not just conjecture.
		And I've got one of them here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I'm very well aware.
		It's not conjecture.
		It's real.
		I'm convinced of that.
		And so we don't have to spend a lot of time on it because preaching to the choir, and I think most of the people out there would probably agree with me.
		There have been several, honestly, Charles, where I just went, no way.
		There's no way humans did that.
		Period.
		End of the story.
		No tracks out.
		Very intricate.
		Never could have been done by humans.
		So, okay.
		I'm with you.
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		This is what people have to understand is the English summertime.
		You have about four and a half hours of darkness on the Wilshire Plains.
		Light and sound carry extremely well out there.
		So, for instance, if I use my cell phone in a field, you can see me almost a mile away at night.
		And same with dogs barking and things like that.
		So it becomes harder and harder, especially if you bear in mind there's people like me out disguised as bushes every season trying to catch you, making these circles.
		So it's the microwave and the plasma.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've actually done that?
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You imagine yourself as a bush and one out there and waited?
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		You go out and you look for the hoaxes.
		Now, what we do, we did actually, we thought we caught some people, and you can see in the film how we actually managed to ambush some Spanish backpackers who most definitely were not making crop circles.
		So these are some of the problems we run into.
		And then you mentioned, obviously, hoaxing.
		You've just kind of touched on that.
		That's a huge, huge element where people go out and with boards and string, they will try and trip you up.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me ask you straight out then.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What percentage of crop circles do you think are hoaxed?
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, that's a fantastic question.
		Let me preface it by saying Colin Andrews, who's the father of the phenomenon, got into a lot of trouble a few years for claiming it was about 85% fake.
		I'm going to say it's more like 95% fake.
unidentified		Really?
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and the phenomenon's in slight decline, I have to be honest there as well, where it seems like it's just kind of winding down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, based on your accent, I have another question.
		I mean, obviously, you'd be in a position to answer this.
		Why Great Britain?
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Ah, another good question, right?
		Well, we have to look at the environment, the landscape, and in particular, that very small area between Averey, Silbury Hill, and Stonehenge in Wiltshire.
		What's different about that?
		Why is it Crop Circle Central?
		And what it turns out, this goes to the work of John Burke, is that most of the crop circles in the world come down in this very small area, which happens to be over the largest chalk aquifer in the world.
		So that's very interesting.
		So then John Burke looked at that and said, what's going on here?
		Why is this the case?
		And what he discovered is that over the summer months, as the water, the enormous amount of rain that we get in England over the rest of the year moves through that water table, that chalk aquifer, it creates a ground charge.
		And that perhaps this ground charge is how the real circles are being created.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, how about this, Charles?
		If I were the government, and thank God I'm not, but if I were and highly placed in the government, somewhere as a science advisor, perhaps I don't know to the Prime Minister, you know what I'd do?
		If I found that crop circles, some of them were real and they had real messages in them for humanity and they really did Come from out there somewhere, I would start making fake crop circles and I'd try to debunk the whole damn thing.
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you'd run some disinfo.
		I think that's what's happening, Art, as well.
		You see it a lot.
		You see some teams, if I can be honest, that are not just out there for fun.
		They're extremely professional.
		They're extremely coordinated.
		To give you an idea, some of these circles, they cover the length of a football field.
		They require fiord lights and surveying equipment to even attempt.
		So I'll go a little bit further, actually, Art, and say that not only are there some very serious people making some of these formations, but they seem to have the kind of accuracy we only see really from military-trained individuals who work in units in the middle of the night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm really glad you brought up the military because I am curious whether you've had any interaction with the military when doing your research.
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		I have, incidentally.
		So let me give you an example.
		To find out how close they're all clustered, crop circles, we do things called aerial sorties in helicopters.
		It's also good for us to show you, you know, we can film them.
		In order to do anything like that in Wiltshire, it's two-thirds militarized.
		So they're constantly running live-fire drills.
		You have to clear your flight with at least three air bases, military bases, that are in the area.
		And so if the military has to cooperate with you and they give you clearance and they say, for instance, there's some Apache gunships on the deck.
		Be careful about those.
		Stay above 1,000 feet.
		And you get all this kind of stuff.
		I think they're, well, I know that they're as curious as we are because I've actually filmed, we have in the film, we have an Apache gunship below its kind of legal intraction zone.
		And it's very curiously examining a yin-yang formation.
		And we saw this a few times.
		So I think that they're trying to get to the bottom of it, just like we are.
		And perhaps they're a little bit shaken by the fact that these things can appear right under our noses.
		And it's good to know why and who's doing it.
		And that many of those questions haven't been answered.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I know that you are going to make a claim tonight that you have put 2D crumb circles together in a 3D visualization and came up with a plan for a ship.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, that's just like that's right out of contact almost.
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Atmosphere, isn't it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		You were aware of that.
		Doug Ruby, years ago, I interviewed, and he was doing something similar, only he rotated, if I recall correctly, the crop circles.
		He actually did it on a phonograph and found they were 3D and it made some progress in that area.
		And I'm sure you've heard of Doug Ruby, yes?
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		I have indeed, yes.
		And in fact, we reached out to Mr. Ruby because it was so similar, his method of articulating these shapes.
		As you say, what he was doing, he was spinning them very fast, and they were kind of, you were getting the illusion of solid shapes there.
		That's right.
		The only difference from what we were doing is we were actually lathing these shapes as wire models.
		So what we got was a lot closer to a blueprint than a solid state kind of the shape of a cross.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so a wire model would look very, would be 3D-ish?
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		If you lathe it, yes.
		So you have to find what's the central axis of rotation, and then you just take it from a 2D image and you lathe it around that central axis.
		And you end up looking at something that looks a lot like a blueprint for a machine.
		So that's what happened was we had actually returned from England having been in 42 different crop circles, about five of which perhaps if we're really being honest, could have been real.
		Two or three were definitely real.
		And we come back and we're kind of stumped.
		We've reached a dead end in terms of our research.
		That's when I was contacted by an inventor by the name of Nikola Romansky who said, look, you've got to see this.
		I've articulated a particular crop circle that was called the Sanctuary from 2009, which actually came down while we were on the ground.
		We weren't able to get to it in time before it was harvested.
		But we were really interested.
		And when I saw this decoding in a very simple Autodesk video, it blew my mind.
		I thought, well, there's several things we're looking at here that look very much like blueprints.
		It looks like they're describing some kind of boundary conditions for an energy field.
		We could see that there were elements that seemed to suggest the use of masers.
		So again, you know, it's very interesting when you see a blueprint, what you think is a blueprint, and you find traces of what could be microwave technology, having already established there's microwave energy in these real circles.
		So we saw a match there.
		And in particular, we were looking at the top of that formation.
		And if you articulate and turn the top of that formation into a 3D blueprint, you're looking at what looks identically to a Klystron array for a microwave.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		So that blew my mind.
		And I thought, at that stage, looking at that, looking at the fact that this was all meaned out using the golden section, and looking at the final fact, because we're trying to be scientific here, Art.
		So the circles that we articulated had to have certain conditions.
		They had to have off-the-charts plant damage.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Charles, hold off-the-charts, plant damage.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold it right there.
unidentified		We'll come back to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A klystron, huh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Interesting.
unidentified		I used to work with klystrons.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wonder if it could have been a klystron in a satellite with USAF on the side.
		I'm Art Bell.
		is Midnight in the Desert.
unidentified		Right down the night.
		Take a walk on the wild side of midnight from the Kingdom of Nye.
		This is Midnight in the Desert with Art Bell.
		Please call the show at 1-952-225-5278.
		That's 1-952.
		Call Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My guest is Charles Maxwell.
		He has examined and deciphered drop circles in the third dimension.
		And from them, he has discovered a design for a ship.
		That deserves applause, right?
unidentified		A ship.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mentioned klystrons.
		I used to work with klystrons.
		I built the head end, that means the satellite gear and the processing gear.
		And the microwave gear to distribute the signal in Las Vegas many years ago.
		And then was in charge of all that.
		We used to be up in a tower frequently trying to get our microwave shots right.
		And I remember one day working on something, and I noticed my leg was getting really warm.
		And I looked down, and I had my leg right in front of the center of the dish.
		And so I was cooking myself.
		And if I hadn't moved, I would have been like one of those little buds that exploded.
		Anyway, Charles, welcome back.
		What makes you think you mentioned a klystron, indeed, a klystron.
		A klystron strong enough in a military satellite could do the kinds of things that we see in these fields.
		Has that occurred to you?
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, absolutely.
		That's a great point.
		In fact, what I thought is that military satellites is one solution, but it could also just be weather satellites.
		Let's put it this way.
		If you want to retask a satellite and make sure that you've positioned it correctly, one of the ways to do that, and perhaps to have a little laugh as well, would be to create some kind of location technique involving the ground.
		So I think that they can definitely be the result of satellite technology.
		And in fact, that is perhaps the most probable source.
		It's very interesting when you look at crop circles, only 20% of them have any kind of association with orbs or actual UFOs.
		And that's a bit confusing.
		So we look at this and we say, well, where is the message originating from?
		And to be honest, it seems like it's a really loud conversation with several different sources, some of whom we know are hoaxing.
		But there's several conversations going on at the same time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Charles, a weather satellite would be unlikely to have a kleistron of, you know, they're generally doing photography at various levels.
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		I wouldn't know that art, so I'm glad you cleared that up for me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But that doesn't mean, though, Charles, that a military satellite designed, for example, to stop an ICBM in its lift phase might not do something like that.
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Powerful, in other words.
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Yeah.
		Again, we were looking at less the cause and kind of we were looking at the effect and saying, well, what is this machine designed to do that we might be seeing here?
		If we were to build this, for instance, what's it going to do for us?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, we'll certainly get to that.
		But you said you did have interaction with the military in some of your researching of crop circles.
		Now, again, think about it.
		If the military did it, they might send somebody out to take a look at what they did.
		Or if it was done by others, as many of us suspect, they definitely would send somebody out to try and figure out what it means.
		So when you dealt with the military, at what level?
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Very basic, in terms of like being in a helicopter, flying out of Thruxton Air Base, sorry, not Air Force Base, Thruxton Air Base, which is a commercial airfield.
		We would fly out of there in our helicopters.
		And of course, any movement that you make in Wiltshire, which is two-thirds militarized, you need their permission.
		So they're actually being, the military do cooperate.
		They're not as nefarious in this particular instance.
		And in fact, my uncle's a colonel, was a lieutenant colonel for the MOD.
		And so we know that they're very interested.
		When you talk to people like John Martinow, who's been associated, he's a brilliant guy.
		He's actually more of an astronomer, a rogue astronomer.
		But he had noted that when he talked to friends of his who were in the military, they say, look, we're just as curious as you are.
		We'd really like to get to the bottom of it because this is an invasion of our airspace several times a summer.
		Do you know what I mean?
		So they are curious.
		I wish I could tell you more.
		There's something that Colin Andrews was a part of called Operation Blackbird, which was supposed to be an operation involved where the military and researchers kind of got on the same page and tried to get to the bottom of this.
		Ultimately, Blackbird wasn't very successful.
		What seems to have happened is smokers came in under their noses and created a crop circle.
		So there was a lot of confusion and not a lot was achieved.
		What did come out of Blackbird, and this was confirmed by a radio personality, was a D notice, the first D notice since the war.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry, a what?
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		A D notice is something that's issued in England, which is where they literally shut down the press and they say, look, this is a national security issue.
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Shut down your cameras until we know what's going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I understand a lot of that goes on in Great Britain.
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		So now there's disputes about this.
		For instance, Nick Pope, who did used to work with the Ministry of Defense, has said, look, there was no denotice.
		But again, we have radio personalities who really had no official connection with the crop circles confirming that, in fact, they were told to shut down their equipment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Confirming it based on what, though?
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		On confirming it because they were on site and they were told to shut down their equipment.
		That would do it.
		And that's a fact that happened.
		Now, why a denotice was issued, I'm not sure.
		I'm not going to pretend.
		But I can certainly guess that they saw either a circle or an orb or something they couldn't account for.
		And so they wanted to really, you know, there's all kinds of protocols that they have to follow.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, you claim there is a hidden science of crop circles.
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		What do you mean?
		Well, this gets back to the aquifer tech, the aquifer technology, and the fact that they seem to be tracing out for us, because they often come down right on these ancient sites.
		So they'll be across the road from Stonehenge, or they'll be across the road from Silbury Hill, and they seem to be describing a fertility science to us.
		Well, again, this is the work of John Burke.
		And what he noticed is that, just to try and keep it really simple, in the morning when the sun comes up, there's a tide of electrons and photons that wash over the landscape as the sunlight comes up.
		And that when this happens, there are places in the landscape called electromagnetic discontinuities.
		This was Burke's work.
		And that's a fancy way of saying the rocks simply change density in type.
		So you might have a strata of slate in the middle of limestone or something, and it changes the ground charge.
		And you get these magnetic anomalies, in fact.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, as long as we are now at this point, Charles, sorry to interrupt.
		You've heard the remarkable racine, I'm sure, the remarkable news about Stonehenge.
		And I wonder how you feel about that.
		I mean, it's so much more than what we can see.
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Just fill me in on that, on the...
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Because I do know that they found a lot more of the complex, but I've got to be honest, I haven't looked at it in-depth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, they found roughly 100 stones beneath the ground, Charles, that are arranged in something of a semicircle in front of Stonehenge.
		And it's quite remarkable.
		I mean, it's so much bigger than what we see above ground.
		And maybe all of that winds into all of this somehow.
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think it's very interesting.
		I didn't know that.
		I can tell you, for instance, that Avery Stone Circle actually has an avenue or two of, again, standing stones, and then it almost describes a womb if you see it from the air.
		So that's interesting.
		But what it seems like, what was happening here is if you look at Levengood's work on the blown nose, just to go back there for a sec, he did a lot of experiments and he noticed that the next year, in real circles, the crops that grew there were stronger and had a greater yield of protein and were just overall healthier, by about 20 to 30 percent from the controls.
		So again, the question is why?
		What's going on here?
		And it seems like microwave radiation, by the way, kills plants.
		But plasma energy seems to have the opposite effect.
		If we have negatively charged ions in the atmosphere, it seems to really help what Levengood called embryogenesis, the actual germination of the seeds, the very mystical kind of process of life itself, seem to be boosted by these plasma fields.
		So we then get to this idea that the ancients were aware of these magnetic anomalies.
		They built their temples over them.
		They went there to worship, but also they would take their seeds, you see R, place them there overnight, they'd become electrically charged, and they'd get the same effects.
		So what Burke said is, look, this is a fertility science that we've forgotten that's being described pretty accurately here.
		And these crop circles are actually drawing our attention back to these sites where we find these magnetic anomalies.
		And this is the case not just in England, but I found this was the case also at Serpent Mound in Ohio, where we had a crop circle come down in 2006.
		And so you find this not just in Wiltshire, but elsewhere as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you think it's fertility related?
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I do.
		I do.
		I think it has to do with germinating the seeds.
		If you have a technology art that guarantees you a greater yield and a successful harvest, you have an immediate advantage over your neighbors.
		And especially back in the day when things, when you couldn't guarantee a crop necessarily, an advantage like this was hard to ignore.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you think this fertility thing just applies to crops?
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		It applies to the crop, yes.
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		But you could, I mean, theoretically, you could, you know, these energy fields can be beneficial for you, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then it's been woefully overdone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		6.5 billion people on the planet.
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, exactly.
		But that's why it's so interesting.
		You see, if we can find something that gives us an edge where perhaps we can grow crops for, you know, easier, we can guarantee we can make some dent in the growing food problem.
		You know, as you know, yeah, we're running into food and water shortages of epic proportions.
		So it goes beyond being a mere curiosity about UFOs, and it becomes something that you really must look at.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Let's get right down to it.
		How did you, you claim you broke the crop circle code?
unidentified		Ah, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So what is the code?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How did you break it?
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		I actually don't make that claim, Art.
		I claim that I found something.
		We definitely were able to articulate some circles and pull out some blueprints that we did our best to bring those into the real world through a very long two-year R ⁇ D process working with aerospace engineers.
		But in terms of the code actually being properly broken, I think the man you should talk to is Nassim Haramein because he has a much greater kind of understanding of the holistic code.
		Crop circles confirm this code, but he finds it many other places as well, like the Bible and in the geometry of various cells and processes.
		So he's a fantastically guilty.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I understand you ran your work by him, and with a couple of modifications, he showed you how this ship could be, or drive, could be made to work.
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, his is not a ship.
		Yeah, it's an energy drive.
		And yes, so we took, I actually flew out to Kauai, where he's based, because at that stage, our project was ramping down.
		We hit some major, major roadblocks, and we were running out of money.
		And I'd come to the conclusion, look, we were the only people to try this in the world.
		We had to try, but it looks like it's going to.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I want to know what you did.
		First of all, when did it come to you that what you had designed could be a drive or part of a ship?
		That it was a, that it was essentially a schematic on how to build this drive?
		I mean, how did that come to you?
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's a good question.
		In talking with Nicola, who had originally decoded the first circle, I said to him, first of all, what are we looking at?
		And we discussed things like the klystron, the fact that it seemed to have boundary conditions for some electromagnetic fields.
		So then we thought that means there might be magnets involved, that we might have to generate our own electrical field.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, when you have klystrons, you have magnets, right?
unidentified		Right.
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Well, this was new to me.
		I mean, I'm not a scientist by trade.
		Nicole is an electrical engineer, so I was playing catch-up the whole time.
		But what I discovered is that, in fact, there are certain things that you need.
		And this is where Nassim agreed with us.
		He said, you guys were right about the rotation.
		You were right about trying to manipulate plasma.
		And you were right in general about the physics that you're playing with.
		But he said, you guys were trying to spin metal, which is true.
		We were trying to spin something called a secondary disk, which is the skirt of our kind of UFO design.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you don't mind, how far did you actually get?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you describe and or do you have photographs of it's in the film actually?
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		It's very clearly described how far we got.
		We got to testing the plasma ignition system that would have been the kind of the heart of the device.
		And we were doing it in, we were trying to get a steady kind of stream of plasma there so we could bend it with the magnets.
		This is the idea.
		And it's kind of based on the theory that we have that the universe doesn't run on gasoline.
		So what does it run on?
		What's it doing?
		And can we copy that?
		And that was what Sweet Potato, that's the name that we gave the machine, by the way.
		That's what Sweet Potato was trying to do.
		We were trying to imitate the universe or the galaxy at whichever level you want to understand where's all this energy coming from, this EM.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you give me a sense of the actual hardware that you did put together?
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		So what we did was we had we used I think 20 between 12 and 24 neodymium magnets that we had to get actually cut to order.
		We worked with a company in Simi Valley called Ritec.
		They were aerospace engineers and they helped us with the chassis which we made out of aluminum 606 one.
		That's actually to people at home that's the stuff that commercial airlines are built out of.
		So we were worried about the stresses and the tensions that it was going to undergo spinning at so many revolutions a minute that we thought we better get the best material.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So these magnets were spinning?
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well actually the magnets were going to be stationary.
		They were going to spin the disc.
		So it would be like an Oreo cookie and the cream would be spinning.
		And the black, the cookie itself would be the disc.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's currently to sound like a saucer.
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, if you look at the design art, it's very saucer-like.
		And again, I said, well, this is just spooky.
		This looks like we're building a UFO.
		And what Nicola described to me is if you look at the electromagnetic field we were trying to generate around the machine, in the same way that a sailboat is designed uniquely to travel by wind, we were trying to harness EM kind of waves and use them.
		And I'm not sure how effective we would have been, but that was the idea, was to really try and create this self-contained standing wave function and then see if we could do if that would affect the plasma in the center of that reaction.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How many crop circles actually went into what was the final design?
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Initially it was eight to ten.
		But we had to narrow that down to three because our criteria were so strict.
		So for instance, Nicola said, look, I really think that this is a boundary condition in this crop set.
		And I said, well, you can't use, it has to be all there.
		So let's take what we know is real.
		Let's make sure the nodes are all blown in these designs because I'm not interested in hoaxed circles.
		And then let's see how they fit together.
		And to be honest, that was a problem.
		Because they didn't come with labels or this part goes there.
		It was very much, like I said, there were certain elements, you'd see a klystron, and you think, wow, maybe there's microwave energy being modulated here.
		But then how exactly we pull that off, it had never been done before, you see.
		So every step of the way, we had to come up with our own solution.
		And I'll give you a simple example.
		How do you mount this thing with all these magnets and spinning pieces?
		What's your mounting technique?
		I mean, we ended up with just sticking stuff together with glue, which I thought was, you know, was guaranteed to fail under stress.
		So we had some problems.
		I'm not going to say it went...
		No, it's extremely dangerous.
		While we're doing this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Charles, you're going to have to hold on.
		When we come back, we'll try and get a better mental picture, if not a picture, of what you put together.
		I want to picture it in my head, and I don't quite yet.
unidentified		I want to picture it in my head, and I don't quite yet.
		In the darkest time, between dusk and dawn, from the high desert, it's Art Bell's Midnight in the Desert.
		Now, here's Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Charles Maxwell is my guest.
		He attempted to build a drive from Crop Circles.
		And I'm trying to get a sense in my mind mechanically of what this was like.
		Obviously, he built a disc.
		And interior to that disc were the magnets?
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		So the way it works.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How many again, please?
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		There were about this is a long time ago, actually.
		We were talking a few years.
		I believe there were 12 large magnets, neodymium magnets.
		They're incredibly strong, by the way.
		They're the same kind of magnets used in your MRIs.
unidentified		Okay.
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		And then in the center, we had what was essentially a spark plug.
		We were trying to create a little plasma flame.
		And then we hoped that that rotating EM field would be strong enough with these neodymiums to do something weird to that plasma, to warp it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you say a spark plug, do you mean literally a spark plug?
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, actually, it was doing similar things to a spark plug.
		It was called an aquapulser.
		And it hadn't come to market yet.
		We got the inventor to, who's a very nice guy, and we got him to lend us a prototype.
		And this would create a plasma flame for us to mess around with.
		But ultimately, if I'm being honest, we had a lot of trouble maintaining that flame.
		But the real trouble was getting the magnets to rotate the secondary disk when we couldn't actually figure out a mounting technique.
		So in the film, you'll see us testing the ignition system.
		We're bench testing it.
		It's not actually in the hasn't been fully integrated into the design yet because we wanted to bench test it first.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, everybody, it seems to me, Charles, everybody who tries to design these drives actually does take a very similar route to yours or some variation thereof.
		Generally with rotating magnetics and something like a Jacobs ladder or what have you in the center and sometimes modulated or kicked off with lasers.
		So I've heard this from many different guests.
		So anyway, I guess this specific design came from I believe you said three crops.
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		So there were two in England and there was one actually by Serpent Mound in Ohio that when we articulated them, they didn't require any additional tinkering.
		You're just staring at a blueprint.
		And so one of them, for instance, would describe boundary conditions for the field.
		Another one, like I said, would have kind of the klystron and the majority of the machine would be described there.
		But there's part, I'm not going to lie here, there was stuff that really looked at and we said, well, what on earth is that?
		And it was up to Nikki, really, Nicola, to try and figure that out.
		Now, traditionally, let's say NASA's building a new vehicle.
		One guy or a few guys have an idea.
		Then you hand it off to 400 other engineers and scientists, and then they will outsource.
		But instead, we put this all in Nicola's lap, so it was between Nicola and I and my producer, Dax Phelan, to try and figure out how do we do what we, well, at least we have never done before, and we don't think anyone else has.
		And right as it was all falling to pieces, I discovered that this man, Nassim Haramain, was doing essentially the exact same thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so you went to Naseem with the plans you had, and when he saw them, he said, what?
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we flew to Kauai.
		He's a really lovely fellow.
		He's incredibly busy.
		But he met with us over lunch, and he said, look, he said, you guys are really, you know, you shouldn't beat yourself up because I was a bit depressed in that state.
		I thought we had failed.
		But I was encouraged that someone else was coming at it from a relatively similar angle.
		Although I have to say, Nassim's code is not our code.
		His is much more elegant, much more cohesive, and has multiple sources, whereas we were just working from crop circles.
		What Nassim found in crop circles was confirmation of what he already knew.
		It was this one shape, particular shape, that he was seeing from, that I believe was related to kind of Buckmister Fuller-type geometries.
unidentified		Sure.
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		And he was seeing this shape from a variety of different angles.
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		So it was like the circle makers were articulating it in every possible variation for him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if Nassim said these things, I'm impressed because I interviewed him not long ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He's a very, very bright guy.
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he's a lot brighter than I am.
		Now, what he said was, because I asked him, I said, where did we go wrong?
		Were we even onto something?
		Did I waste my time?
		That's the question.
		It's a bit of a loaded question, but I was in a particular funk.
		And he said, look, guys, so you really were right about some fundamental things.
		You were right about the rotation.
		You were right about the plasma.
		You were right to try.
		And then he told us about, he said, look, Edison found a thousand ways not to make a light bulb before he found the right way.
		And then he referred us to the Wright brothers, which I think is overstake.
		We're nowhere near the right.
		But the point being, when the Wright brothers actually performed their first flight, there was math art that came out in major publications and in newspapers saying, this is a hoax.
		This is ridiculous.
		And here's the math to prove that human flight is totally impossible.
		And we include those Articles in the film.
		So you can see, you know, he made a lovely point and he really encouraged us.
		But what it comes down to is, why is he going to succeed or why is he going to get closer than we are?
		And it comes down to this, because I did ask him, I said, what did we do wrong?
		He said, you can't spin metal that fast.
		He said, your math was way off.
		And again, this is math that had never been done really before.
		He said, but your metal would have liquefied once you got over a certain number of RPMs, and you still wouldn't have got close to the kind of energy you need for kind of a singularity, for that plasma to kind of fold in on itself and collapse in an implosion.
		So I said, well, how do you do it then?
		He said, you can't spin the metal.
		You have to spin the field.
		And the light bulb went off in my head, because it's a genius way of approaching it.
		So instead of spinning metal and getting doused in liquid aluminum, right, while you're performing this experiment, he actually has created amplifiers that he's patented that will spin the electric field instead.
		It's a much more elegant solution, and I think he's going to get some kind of effect from it.
		And he demonstrates for me, I'm not really allowed to talk about exactly what he did, but he showed us some very simple devices that he had made according to the design, the geometries of the vacuum, as he calls it.
		And these things are literally drawing four volts, and I don't know from where.
		I've seen this with my own eyes.
		They're not hooked up to any kind of power source.
		So it's exciting stuff working with that guy.
		Not working, but getting to pick his brain for an afternoon and having him say, look, you guys, you've got close, but you really should be spinning things that aren't matter.
		So that was a revelation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm telling you, there are many, many people right now, Charles, working on various forms of drives, whether they be an electromagnetic drive or whether they be some other form.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's really an intense area of work right now because if man ever wants to really go to space, you know, beyond possibly going to the moon, if we want to go anywhere real and we want to get there in a reasonable amount of time and not devote generations of travelers to it, it's going to be the only way.
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you for making a really important point, Art.
		Combustion technology won't get us very far.
		So that's kind of what we were up to.
		And again, people might say, well, you're dabbling in the new age, you know.
		But for me, it's very old age.
		These geometries, they're about the way that the universe works, the way it was created.
		How is it doing what it's doing?
		Can we copy it?
		No one's going to sue us because it's the creation.
		But can we replace combustion technology with implosion tech?
		And for people at home, what's the difference?
		It is the fact that when you blow stuff up, you do get enormous energy, but it's quite inefficient in the long run.
		And the idea that we can implode things and actually get more energy out of the equation is tantalizing.
		I wanted to explore it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, okay, so this has ended.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where do you go now?
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what we, like I said, we ran out of money.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I get that.
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		We had to shut down.
		And so for me now, you know, I stay in touch with Nicola.
		We're still friends.
		And Nicola is moving forward with this work.
		But it's going to take funding.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you think you spent so far?
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		I'll tell you what I spent on the R ⁇ D project.
		We spent about $150,000.
		Yeah, it's a lot of money.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is when it's coming out of your pocket.
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		That's coming out of my pocket.
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		I really put my money where my mouth was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll give you props for that.
		not many people would find a new way to look at three crop circles and pony up $150,000 to try and prove their point.
		So you must...
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		No, absolutely not.
		In fact, it's in the film.
		It's even in the trailer.
		We didn't try to hide this stuff.
		If you can take a look at that at some point and to the folks at home, you'll see not only the machine and every part of it, you'll also see the full articulation of the main crop circle that started it all.
		So we're pretty open about all of this, and we welcome the criticism.
		We just really wanted to push the envelope, and it became almost an activist against the way things are done.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so I'm headed to my own website right now.
		I'm going to click on your picture.
		Hopefully that's going to take me somewhere.
		Well, it hasn't taken me anywhere yet.
		Okay.
		All right, so I see a crop circle.
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		So I believe what you're looking at is 2009, the sanctuary.
		And it's called the sanctuary because it came down next to a very old little stone monument that's in a field known as the sanctuary.
		So that one had blown nodes.
		Very interesting.
unidentified		Very interesting indeed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		However, what would I have to do now to see the final rendering that came from...
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		You mean for your own...
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		If you wanted to do it at home, you would just need simple Autodesk software and...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm sure you've got it up somewhere, right?
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		It's at our website.
		The trailer is anyway, a field fullofsecrets.com.
		And there's a trailer there, some bio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I'm going to play the trailer right now as we speak.
		And I really don't want to see this.
		I can't imagine what a decision to.
		How far do I have to wait, by the way, through this before I get to it?
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		I would say it's about a two and a half minute trailer.
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		It would be the last minute.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The last minute, okay.
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		If you're scrubbing, Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		This is quite remarkable, and there is a very rendered high-definition aerial photograph that I'm seeing of that cross-circle.
		And here we go.
		Oh, a very good job.
		What a good job of rendering.
		And now you show the craft.
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we take it to bigger for you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
		Wow, wow, wow.
		Folks, this is worth watching.
		Go to artbell.com and then jump over to his website.
		This is pretty impressive stuff.
		Honestly, it is.
		So take my word for it, having just watched it, it's worth the watch.
		So I imagine putting that together alone would have been a pretty big job.
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's why we had to outsource it.
		You see, we were deadly serious art, so we bought something known as a rapid prototype.
		This is a 3D printer.
		And it had a five-axis lathe on it.
		And we thought, let's keep things in-house and lower the costs.
		And let's see if we can't build this entirely in-house.
		And we were wrong because of the diameter of the secondary disk.
		It was too great for our lathe to cope with.
		And as a result, then we had to outsource.
		I think, as you know, once you start going to aerospace engineers, your costs skyrocket.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, of course.
		All right, Joe.
		Hold tight a moment.
		Hold tight.
		Hold tight.
		Trust me on this, folks.
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Do this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go to artbell.com.
		You'll see my guest picture.
		Click on that.
		And then on down, you'll see his website.
		For heaven's sakes, click on that and watch this short trailer video.
		And you'll see exactly how this happened and the machine that was created from it.
		So it's totally worth it.
		Artbell.com, click on guest picture, then the link.
unidentified		This is Midnight.
		Music It's not radio, but it is what's next, exclusively on the Dark Matter Digital Network, Midnight in the Desert, with Art Bell.
		Now, here's Art.
		Here I am.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, listen, I'm about to open the phone lines, so here's the way that goes.
		Our public number is 1-952-225-5278 for Charles Maxwell.
		Area code 952-225-5278.
		Or if you want to come in on Skype, we can accommodate you.
		North America would be MITD51.
		Just go to the little add button.
		Add us as MITD51.
		And thereafter, we'll be on your list and you can punch it and call us.
		Now, same deal for international calls, except it's MITD55.
		MITD55.
		Following this show tonight, RCH is going to have another man working on a drive as well.
		I mean, we're getting all kinds of feedback from all kinds of people on a drive that will get us the hell off this planet.
		I mean, in a way that really will allow us to navigate space.
		And I mean, space beyond our moon, space beyond Mars, space.
		You know, really out there.
		So I'm thinking this is really, really, really important stuff.
		We had another gentleman on, you'll recall, not many nights ago, also working on a drive.
		And that one bent a little bit of space.
		Not so much time, but space.
		And one of these is going to work.
		I can't tell you which one.
		I can't tell you when.
		I can't tell you if it's going to be the product of three crop circles in design.
		I can't tell you if one of these physicists is going to stumble into it, and that's it.
		We're going to go from people trapped basically on the planet and or nearby it to people that can actually travel to the stars.
		And if you can think of something more important than that, especially with the current condition of the planet, I'm all ears.
		All right, Charles, welcome back.
		Thanks, sir.
		So away went a lot of your money.
		And I guess you were somewhat depressed.
		And Nassin Harriman brought your spirits up a little bit.
		So is there anywhere else to go?
		I mean, if you really do have plans from elsewhere for a drive that will get us from here to wherever, this is really still extremely, extremely important stuff.
		What do you do with it?
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's a very good question.
		Because you then have the problem of trying to bring it to market.
		And there's all kinds of problems there, not the least of which is the massive oil industry, which I don't think is in a huge hurry to give up trillions of dollars of revenue a year for something that potentially only needs maintenance.
		You see, the idea was not just that our machine or any of these drives, because there's many ways to skin a cat, that not just that this machine would be potentially a vehicle, but it could also be an energy generator and with very few moving parts.
		Therefore, your biggest cost is fixing it when it breaks, but it doesn't require a whole lot of fuel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, I guess what I'm saying here is if what you're saying is holds any water, and you put $150,000 into it, so I'm thinking you think it really holds water.
		You know, the design has got to go somewhere else.
		It's got to be examined by others.
		It can't be dropped here.
		You can't just say, damn, $150,000 gone.
		There has to be more.
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		I agree, and I think that's what the film is about, is to put, so that we have hit a dead end here.
		We've gone as far as we could take it, but we do want other people to look at what we've done, to look at other things as well and say, oh, clearly they were wrong.
		They just needed to do this.
		We're looking for that.
		We want to inspire people to pick up the mantle and run with it, you know, and really succeed where we failed.
		We feel like we're one of these light bulbs, but one of them is going to go up.
		And in fact, you mentioned these drives that are out there.
		There's some really interesting work that's, again, so simple, yet genius, related to the universe and what it's actually doing, which is the work of David Lapointe.
		And again, what we're just looking at is two interacting electromagnetic, or real rather one field that's male and female, electromagnetic field in a toroidal kind of shape.
		And this is really exciting because it does confirm kind of what we're on to and what Nassim is trying to do.
		And it's very elegant and it's simple to understand.
		You don't need to know how to dismantle a quadratic equation or to even understand relativity to understand that the universe is electric.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Let's take a few calls and see what comes.
		Benson, I believe it is, on Skype.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, Benson is not there.
		I said you're on the air.
		He wasn't.
		Let's go to Winter Haven, Florida, I believe.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hey, Art, this is Tom from Florida.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry, Tom Sawyer?
unidentified		No, this is Tom from Florida.
unidentified		Sorry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tom from Florida.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tom from Florida.
unidentified		Anyway, yeah, I think the government already is aware of a technology of this.
		I think that's why they're keeping all of it secret.
		It would be stupid for them to reveal it to us, in their opinion, because it would take all these oil companies and their funds away.
		But I do have a question for you, Charles, if I may ask.
		I heard a long time ago that these top circles, somebody discovered that they actually formed musical notes?
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, that's very, yes, that's very good, Tom.
		Okay, I think you're referring to the work of Paul Vigay, the late researcher.
		And Paul was a mathematician, and what he discovered, and this was also reflected by the, oh no, I'm going to get this wrong, I think it's the London Psychical Society, Psychic Research Society, but they noticed that, yes, in fact, some of these crop circles, mathematically at least, seem to suggest certain notes.
		And then Vigay actually went and made a tune out of various circles.
		It's hard to say where that would lead because he did die rather suddenly.
		The official report is he committed suicide in England.
		By the way, his family discussed that.
		His family disputes that, Tom.
		But that's, yeah, you're absolutely right.
		It seems to be sometimes that we have to look at the geometry and say, what is it representative of?
		And so that's one instance.
		I wish I could answer your question completely, but that's the reason that we couldn't afford to lose Paul, really.
unidentified		Yeah, I always found that very fascinating because I think music would be definitely one universal way to communicate.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, music is sort of math, right?
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's about periods.
		And so it's, yes, you can have.
		And in fact, there is, I've mentioned this man before, John Martineau, wrote a book called The Little Book of Coincidences, Tom, that you might find very interesting about things like the fact that Venus is described in the sky as an almost complete pentagon every eight years.
		And you get these really lovely, stunningly beautiful geometries when you describe the relationship of the orbits of Mars to Earth and Mercury to Mars.
		And he's done all these in this book by Wooden Press, a little book of coincidences.
		So you can see those periods and those orbitals, and they're amazing.
		They're so, you know, again, it looks like just really impressive cohesive geometry.
unidentified		Well, thank you, Charles, and thank you, Art.
unidentified		I hope your daughter's feeling a lot better.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		She is, actually.
		Thank you very much.
		And so far, cross fingers, I have not caught it.
		Somebody asks, why always in wheat fields?
		And that's a pretty interesting question.
		In other words, why not on grass?
		Why not in the snow?
		Why not?
		And I think the answer to that would be, I hate to answer it myself, but if you do it in a wheat field, it's a lot more durable, isn't it?
		In other words, if you do it in ice or something and it rains, it's gone.
		If you want it to be seen, if you are from elsewhere and you want us to notice this, then how could you do better than a wheat field?
		What do you think, Charles?
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		To a large extent, I have to be honest.
		They have come down in ice.
		We get ice circles on the side.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know it has happened, but it's usually wheat fields, right?
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		It is usually Wheat, and not to bore the audience, but the reason I think again goes back to the fertility science.
		If you look at a stalk of wheat on its own, it's almost like a freestanding capacitor.
		And in fact, the way that the head of wheat is designed, it's like an antenna.
		I think that this has a lot to do with these telleric tides at sunrise.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It may.
		All right, we've got a break here, so we will be back.
		Be glad to take your calls.
		It's some fascinating stuff.
		Eventually, one of these is going to turn out to be a real drive.
		Who knows?
		Maybe it's this one.
unidentified		Nothing's wrong.
		It's what I'm.
		Who's gonna drive you home?
		It's the night.
		Wanna take a ride from the high desert and the great American Southwest?
		This is Midnight in the Desert, exclusively on the Dark Matter Digital Network.
		To call the show, dial 1-952.
		Call Art at 1-952-225-5278.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or by Skype, that it be MITD51 or Outside North America MITD55.
		Listen, I would not send you on a goose chase.
		This is well worth your seeing.
		What you need to do is go to artville.com, my page.
		You'll see a picture of Charles Maxwell, my guest.
		At that point, click on it, and then find the link to his page.
		When you get to his page, do watch this trailer.
		It includes the crop circle, and then the 3D rendering of the crop circle, and then even a picture of the craft that was created.
		I mean, it's quite remarkable and well worth seeing.
		Guy went out and spent $150,000 of his own money.
		My goodness.
		Incredible stuff.
		Absolutely incredible.
		Okay, Charles, welcome back.
		Is there anything, before we go back to the bones, important in your story that I have missed?
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Goodness me.
		I think that as long as we get across the point that we are coming from observational science here, that we're not just channeling the Pleiades or anything.
		We really are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		You know what I mean?
		We're trying to work with observational data.
		And our model is the electrical universe.
		So we contend that there's actually a lot of electricity out there and a lot of plasma.
		And this is David Talbert's wonderful work that kind of turned me onto this.
		But this idea that curvature space-time, the Einsteinian relativistic model, it's got all kinds of problems.
		And when you really look at who's making the advances, who makes the major inventions, the Marconi's, the Teslas, the Edisons, these are electrical engineers working in the real world with electricity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		They're not theoretical physicists.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		For the record, I don't interview people who channel at all.
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		I didn't think you did, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't.
		Kelsey on Skype.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello?
unidentified		Hello, everybody.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're on here?
unidentified		How are you guys doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fine.
unidentified		This is actually Cody again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Kelsey is what's written.
unidentified		Yeah, that's what's Skype.
unidentified		I'm going to do a little bit of a data.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, get him close to your mic, or you're going to cut out on us.
unidentified		Can you hear me better?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're not.
unidentified		I was curious to know if Kells was familiar with the work of Lawrence Krauss.
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Lawrence Krauss.
unidentified		Yeah, he's a theoretical physicist.
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, not entirely.
		I mean, I saw his film.
		He did a film with Dawkins, did he not?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Color, are you on your speaker phone?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Pardon me?
unidentified		I don't think so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're cutting out like crazy.
unidentified		I'll try.
		I'm walking around.
		I'll try to stay once apart.
		I was curious, though, because my theory is that I think that they're being aware of that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, I'm sorry.
		We're not going to be.
		You're going to have to come up with a better way to do this because I cannot make out what you're saying.
		That's life, I guess.
		All right, let's go to the phones and whoever comes up next, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Yeah, hi, Art.
		Hi, Charles.
		It's Scott in San Diego.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Scott.
unidentified		And I've got a question for Charles about crop circles.
		And something he said earlier made me think of this.
		I wonder if crop circles are meant to help us in these times of global climate change and with the recent incursion of genetically modified foods.
		He said something about reports of protein increases in the affected grains in the circles.
		So given that, that kind of makes sense.
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's a great point, mate.
		And let me direct you to the real silence again.
		And there were articles, there's a peer-reviewed article by the late W.C. Leavengood in a journal called Physiologia Plantarum, which is a Dutch publication.
		And this is issue 92.
		And the article is called Anatomical Anomalies in Crop Circle, in Crop Formation Plants, I'm sorry.
		And it goes into these protein discoveries, the yields.
		But it's very simple.
		All that Mr. Levenger did was that he took controls from outside the circle and he grew them.
		He germinated the seeds.
		And then he went to what's called the shadow of a former circle where we knew there'd been a really interesting crop circle the year before.
		And he did that again with that.
		And this was done statistically.
		So they did it with tens of thousands of plant samples.
		This was not random.
		It was very scientific.
		And that's what they found.
		They found that they're stronger, healthier.
		They have 20 to 30% more protein.
		And you can see this in the side-by-side comparisons that Levengood provided, which are in our film as well, actually.
		So you can literally see that the crops are affected plants, they're just taller and healthier and more vital.
		So that's what we found.
unidentified		Okay.
		That's pretty amazing.
		I'll check that out.
		Thanks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is amazing.
		Thank you.
		Thank you very much.
		Going to Skype for Wayne.
unidentified		Hi there.
		Hi.
		Earlier on, your guest made a reference to the Chill Bolton Radio Telescope crop circle.
		And I've always been really fascinated by that one, particularly the response where they show what looks like a bizarre radio antenna, kind of like a fractal antenna.
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		I know exactly.
unidentified		So do I. Is that a real crop circle, or is that...
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		First of all, I didn't mention Chibalton earlier, but I should have, so thank you.
		The antenna array, I have no idea.
		And the reason I don't is because I'm only willing to comment on circles I was in physically, that I studied or that I got really, or that we got fantastically reliable data about blown nodes.
		And if that's the case, there has to be a lot of photographic evidence.
		I like to talk to people who have been in this circle.
		This is just kind of doing primary context research.
		Do you know what I mean?
		Right.
		Going to Chibaltan, the antenna, I really don't know.
		I can tell you that the disc, the ASCII disc in the face, as much as people have fallen in love with that thing, is fake.
		It came down over three days.
		And I know this because Andreas Muller went down there to Chibalton and talked to a farm manager.
		And he said, clear as day, it was a three-day formation.
		So the ASCII disc that everyone goes nuts about with the alien, the typical gray holding that disc is undoubtedly fake.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're very welcome.
		Thank you for carrying the call.
		We appreciate it.
		And let's go hear to the phone.
		You're next, whoever you are.
unidentified		Yeah, hi, this is Ronald calling from Malibu, California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hey there.
unidentified		Hi.
		Thanks for taking my call.
		Charles, I have a couple, just two quick questions.
		Wait, wait a minute.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wait a minute.
		Wait a minute.
		Ronald.
		You're the Ronald who was packing up with his wife to go running away.
unidentified		Yeah, in fact, we finished packing up today.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When do you leave?
unidentified		We are actually leaving Wednesday.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wednesday.
unidentified		Because, yeah, Wednesday.
		We're going Wednesday, and then we're coming.
		We're going to stay until the 28th.
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sorry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead for the guest.
unidentified		Okay.
		My first question is, have you thought about putting up like a closed-circuit TV surveillance cameras near the crop circle site so that you can actually capture footage of the crop circles being made, which I think would give a lot of credit.
		It would lend a lot of credibility to it, I think, and attract some real scientists.
		And then my second question is, and I've used this to crowdfund web series before.
		Have you thought about doing like Indiegogo or Kickstarter or GoFundMe to gather not only funds to continue with your project, but also gather the possibly some real technicians who can come in there and make your saucer and drive work for you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, those are both good questions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's go to the camera one first.
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Right, the camera ones are great.
		Thank you for mentioning that.
		There's a very good reason why we didn't set up hidden cameras.
		One, it's expensive, and we couldn't budget for that.
		Two, and this goes to the kind of political side of crop circles, there are hoaxes everywhere.
		If they even suspect that you have a camera in the field, the first thing they're going to do is nick the...
		The second thing they're going to do is steal your camera.
		So that has been considered.
		In fact, my director of photography said, why haven't we done that?
		He was very cavalier about catching hoaxes and really went the extra mile.
		It's just not financially feasible for us five, six years ago.
		It might be now, I think.
		You could put GoPros, camouflage them, and hide them all around.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What I was going to say, why not get a drone?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wait until something's in the middle of a formation, fly that sucker up and take a look-see with night vision.
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, night vision's a great way to do it.
		I think that you've just hit on the way to really get to the bottom of this.
		There's another way.
		I mentioned earlier weather satellites, and Art corrected me about the Klystron array.
		But weather satellites in Britain scan every field in the nation every 15 minutes.
		This is our food source, so of course we want it protected.
		So I've always said, why can't we simply see the weather data?
		Because we could, you know, 15 minutes is not enough to make a large circle.
		We would definitely catch them in the act if we could have access to those weather satellites.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, his next question concerned continued funding for your project.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Crowdfunding, GoFundMe something.
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's, again, a very good idea.
		What I've decided, and I didn't arrive at this easily, is that we have some significant flaws in our design.
		So that if I were to continue funding, I would hit the same problems.
		And those problems we've discussed a little bit, stuff like mounting, the fact that I could never get that disk to rotate anywhere close to the speed it needed to bend that plasma with an EM field.
		So what I would prefer to do, mate, is to find a more viable version like Naceemes and invest there.
		And I think that we need to be smart and discerning about how we, which technologies we endorse.
		Do you know what I mean?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I do.
		And in your case, you don't want to use GoFundMe.
		You want to use, please pay me back.
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Please pay me back.
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, because I'm still in the right.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		On the phone, you're on the air with Charles Maxwell.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, hello.
unidentified		Yeah, this is Donnie from Del Mar, Maryland, Roswell's G-U-R.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		I have a couple of questions.
unidentified		Can I pick you up on shortwave radio?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		What channels?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		5085.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		5.085.
unidentified		Okay.
		And yeah, and my second question is, we sent a message into space with our DNA coding and right below it was the shape of a human.
		And then I guess I'm not sure years later if we received the message back and it had like different DNA coding and an alien right below it in a crop circle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, are you in the crop circle?
		Okay.
		What about that?
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're referring to, let me see, that's the data strip response is what you're referring to, where actually the little gray fella was supposed to be silicon-based.
unidentified		That's right.
unidentified		Yes.
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Yeah, that was really interesting.
		Unfortunately, because it was in the, that's at Sherbolton formation as well, or that part of the world.
		So I'm afraid to say I don't have a lot of data on that one.
		It did come down, I think, about 10 years ago.
		And so rather than put my foot in it, I'm just going to, I don't have enough kind of empirical data about what the layer of that crop circle was.
		But off the top of my head, based on the ASCII disk, I have serious questions as to the legitimacy of that circle, I'm afraid.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		You're on the air with Charles Maxwell.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hi.
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead, sir.
unidentified		Oh, this is.
		All right, Bill, my gosh.
		I can't believe it.
		Try to believe it.
		Huh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, try to believe it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're on air, so go ahead.
unidentified		Thank you.
		My favorite guest of yours from 2000 or so was a guy named Michael Schuman, Dr. Michael Schuman, man from Skeptics Magazine.
		Yes.
		And I'm not going to call a skeptic, but I kind of look at all things in a roundabout way.
		Now, corpor circles, I've heard many people speak of them.
		Most every one of them have approached them from the idea of debunking them.
		And then they mostly find out they can debunk about 93% of them, and they accept the other 7% as being real.
		And I would kind of think from my skepticism that maybe there's 7% of people who can fool that person.
		But in this guy, in this guy's name is Charles, is it?
		Hi.
		In your case, I would say there is a good possibility that observing crop circles triggered something in your mind that answered some questions in your mind, and then you came to these worthwhile conclusions and built something, which may be the right thing, may not.
		But I've seen elephants in the clouds, so to speak.
		Your imagination can be stimulated, and it can confirm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So are you suggesting that his imagination went wild with what he saw?
unidentified		No, not that his imagination went wild, his imagination put together and Maybe those crop circles are from aliens.
		I keep an open mind about it.
		It's just that most of the people who look into them say that same thing.
		Oh, I can debunk 93% of them, and the other 3% are real.
		Or maybe the other 3% are just by some very clever Englishmen who have too much time on their hand and too many points of bass.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Could be.
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
		Well, you've struck on a very good point, my friend, and I'm not going to just let it go.
		I think what you're saying to some extent is, and I've noticed this, I'm not going to dispute it, is that crop circles can be something like a Rorschach test.
		So there is the possibility that you bring your own kind of decoding, as it were.
		You see what you want to see.
		And you could certainly levy that argument against me and say, well, he was looking for technology and he found it.
		I think actually that's a very legit question.
		And I don't really know how to answer, except that we tried very hard by using scientific method to kind of divorce ourselves from that possibility.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, to spend $150,000 of your own money, you must have thought pretty hard about it before you took the bite of the apple.
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely, of course, yeah.
		And the other thing is that we have to decide, and this is another point that your question raised, is who's actually making them?
		Who is actually behind the real ones?
		Are we assuming that it's aliens?
		Because I think that's a false assumption.
		We just have to assume they're real because, and this is the distinction.
		There's ones that are aborted, whereas the weight of a human being has crushed and killed those plants.
		They're never coming back up again.
		They're not going to be 30% stronger the next year.
		Do you know what I mean?
		And yet we have these real ones.
		So we have to decide first, is this, like art says, is this a military satellite?
		Is it aliens?
		Is it the planet itself?
		There's some real mind scratches, benders, that you have to come to terms with.
		And it's clearly, it could be us.
		We could be doing this to ourselves.
		It could be a joke.
		It could be some kind of projection technology that doesn't require boards, but doesn't require aliens either.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Miles, you must have thought about all this before spending all that money.
		Now, you've got a video.
		Is that for sale?
		You're selling the video or just available?
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		The film, you mean?
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Filled full of secrets.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes.
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, it's available on Netflix right now.
		It's also on iTunes, Amazon, Instant, Hulu, Voodoo, on various of those pay systems.
		And I think that's the easiest way to find it if you do want to give it a try and see what we got up to.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I hope they do.
		I think that we've pretty well wound through your story, Charles.
		So I'm Going to thank you, tell you that it was a wonderful night.
		I wish you all the luck in the world.
		One of these is going to work out, buddy.
		One of these days, somebody's going to come up with it.
		And if they don't, we're stuck on this planet.
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		So, thank you very much.
charles maxwell ▲ ● ▼		It's been a pleasure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Charles Maxwell, thank you.
		So, what we will do is take a break.
		And when we come back, we'll do open lines.
		Absolute open lines.
		I'm not even going to suggest a topic.
		I'm just going to take one hour of solid open lines on the phone or from Skype.
		Either way.
		So, if you've got anything you want to say, the next hour ahead is a place to say it.
		From the high desert, this is Midnight in the Desert.
unidentified		It is the night.
		My body's weak.
		I'm on the run.
		No time to sleep.
		I've got to run, run.
		I like the win.
		Midnight in the desert spans the world.
		To call us from outside the U.S. and only, use Skype with a headset mic if on a computer.
		And call MITD55.
		That's MITD55.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One time a night, right?
		Has to do that.
		Randomly.
		Oh, boy.
		All right.
		As I mentioned, open lines, no parameters.
		I'm not even going to suggest a special line.
		I'm just going to say open lines.
		Come get it.
		Whatever you want to talk about.
		Fair game.
		So here we go.
		We'll start with Billy on Skype.
		Hello, Billy.
		Hello, Billy.
		Yes, I can.
		You sound like you're in a cave, Billy.
		Hello, Billy.
		Billy is gone.
		What a shame.
		Okay, let's go to the phone and say hello.
		You're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Yeah, you can hear me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I can hear you.
unidentified		Arbel, you are great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, just me.
unidentified		Yeah, well, you know, I just wanted to give a shout out to everybody under the hashtag of DM Talk.
		This is just alt.
		And if anybody's searching through the tweets, they'll know what I'm talking about.
		But I just wanted to say that that guy was blowing smoke.
		It's a sad situation that he's living in northern Malibu, and he's cut short of $150,000.
		I don't know what this is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, now you're talking about Ronald.
unidentified		Yeah, I really don't know what you can spend $150,000 on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, no, no.
		Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
		You're confusing guests here.
		You're talking about Charles now, Maxwell, not Ronald, right?
unidentified		Oh, I'm sorry.
		Yeah, Charles Maxwell.
		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		So I really don't understand what you can do to literally dump $150,000.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's not that hard.
unidentified		That's a lot of money.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know it is a lot of money, but it's not that hard.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you start building something like he was talking about, trust me, in a blink of an eye, you can go through $150,000.
unidentified		I mean, I'll just speak on behalf of the majority.
		And the whole thing is that it just seems like it's a circle.
		And the only crop circle that's been created is the one that he's created.
		And he's probably running around in it.
		Because, I mean, it's just, come on, Art.
		I mean, there's, you know, real stuff out there, but this guy's blowing smoke.
		I just, I can't buy it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, he blew 150 grand of his own smoke.
unidentified		But can we prove that?
unidentified		Can we prove that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, I think you can.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure he's got receipts.
unidentified		Oh, sure.
unidentified		God bless you, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
		Can I prove you?
		No, you'd have to drag out receipts.
		I don't doubt him.
		I believe him.
		Chelsea, I think it is on Skype.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		I wanted to...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Depends how you set up Skype, Chelsea.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, I hear you fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So what's up?
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		So I wanted, I had this great argument for the atheists the other night, but didn't get a chance to bring it up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
		And I tried.
		Good Lord, I tried.
		I had several on who said, yes, I can get them.
		Just put me on with them.
		And, you know, I know God's not dead, but I mean, some of his former worshipers are down on the job.
unidentified		Well, my argument was near-death experiences.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a good one.
unidentified		So you have Dr. Raymond Moody wrote Life After Life, and he did extensive studies interviewing dozens, I don't know how many people, but quite a number of people that died and came back.
		And they all had very similar stories about seeing a being of light, of loving white light.
		And some of them called it Jesus.
		Some of them called it God.
		Some of them didn't say it was God, but there was definitely a presence there.
		And the thing that really convinced me was that after they had very vivid experiences, even though their brains were shut off and their hearts weren't beating, they described it as more real than this existence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Chelsea, did you watch a recent program called Proof?
unidentified		No, I didn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I recommend you go back and watch it.
		It's about a doctor seeking answers and doing NDEs.
		And as I was watching that show, I commented to my wife, you know, that at my age, I would be willing to give it a try.
		I would, given the opportunity, assuming that I was healthy, a giant leap, I would be willing to try a flat line myself to try and find out.
		At my age, not a great risk, right?
		Or always a great risk.
		Nevertheless, I would be willing to try it, and that is what she did in that program.
		And I was constantly complaining about the program until the final episode where what would be considered proof was actually reached.
		Because prior to that, there was always the hint or the taunt of possible proof and never any real proof.
		Anyway, interesting stuff.
		And we are going to examine on this program NDEs in great detail.
		We're going to try to get as close as we can get to the truth without actually flatlining.
		Unless I got the right equipment and a good doctor and so forth and so on.
		Let's go to the phone.
		You're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, all right.
		This is Colorado Springs.
		I just wanted to wish a happy Rosh Hashanah to all my Jewish friends.
		And I wanted to ask if maybe we could get some updates from Ronald while he goes underground.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean that he would call in as he's underground waiting for the big one?
unidentified		Yeah, letting us know what's happening from, I guess you would call it, the underside or whatever, and when he decides to come back out, or if not, if he decides to stay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I guess when he comes out, he could say, well, it didn't happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm glad.
unidentified		Now I'm going home.
unidentified		Well, I guess, but I obviously am a skeptic about it, but I think I'm kind of fascinated at the mindset of someone that would go to that length and is so convinced that it's going to happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do agree.
		I really do agree that somebody would be so convinced of something that just sort of grew and germinated on the internet that they would flee where they live.
		I know.
		It's remarkable.
unidentified		And I'd kind of like to follow that mindset as it progresses throughout the next week.
		And who knows if he's right.
		We may never know.
		But if he's wrong, I'd kind of like to follow that progress and what maybe truths he comes to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we'll see what he has to say, that's for sure.
		All right, thank you very much.
		When you call, folks, people are requesting video.
		Don't do that.
		We don't accept video.
		We don't want to see you.
		We don't want you to see us.
		This is radio.
		We are an audio medium.
		So by all means, please do not try to bring up video when you call it.
		On top of that, it kind of interrupts the bandwidth.
		Steve, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
		Oh, hi, Art.
		Hi.
		Hey, the gentleman earlier that called and asked about shortwave, it brought up a question I wanted to ask you when you had open lines.
		Sure.
		You remember a few years back on shortwave, there was a series of numbers?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're called numbers stations, yes.
unidentified		What were those?
unidentified		Did they ever find out?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no.
		They are ways to communicate with agents in the field, you know, like CIA agents and other nations agents.
		Those numbers stations are there, and all you hear is a girl going, 37, 64.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So that's a way of communicating a cipher code.
unidentified		So it wasn't a mystery after all.
		I always heard it was a mystery.
		Nobody knew what it was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that is the healthiest theory, Steve, of what they are.
unidentified		I see.
		Okay.
		I have one more question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
unidentified		What's your theory on orbs?
unidentified		I saw one once, and I have no idea what it was, and I wondered if you had any ideas what you might think it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You saw an orb.
		Wait, wait, wait, wait.
		You saw an orb with your eye or something that was rendered on the camera?
unidentified		Okay, I was outside, and I saw it passing across the street, and it rested on the roof of the garage across the street from me and just sat there, and it was like it was observing me, like I was observing it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's really weird.
		I'm sorry, Steve.
		I don't have a theory for you.
		The ones they catch on camera are pretty much baloney, in my opinion.
		But seeing one with your bare eyes beats me.
unidentified		And the strangest thing of it is, it was like 20 years, this happened like four years ago, I think.
		But a fellow that I became friends with where I worked about 20 years prior to this was telling me that he was going home one day, and this was like in the middle of the afternoon, and he was describing what I saw, an orb.
		And I didn't know whether he was making it up or what, because I didn't know him that well at the time.
		And until I saw one, and I'm going through my mind when I saw it, I'm going through, I'm thinking different things on what it could be.
		And then all of a sudden it dawned on me, this is what it is.
		And the light that it gave out was unlike any kind of light I've ever observed.
		It didn't, like when it was passing behind trees, it didn't light up any.
		The trees should have been lit up.
		The leaves, the surface of the garage roof should have had some kind of light.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm going to make a guess, Steve, that what you saw was a plasma ball.
		And that's all it is, is a guess.
		But light that would exist, perpetuate itself like that, sounds to me like a plasma Ball, and they do have them.
		Scientists don't fully understand them.
		It's another one of those things that's just plain weird.
		But we know they do exist, and they move in ways that make no sense, and they pop in and out of existence, sometimes associated with thunder storms, sometimes not.
		So I wish I could tell you more, but that's kind of what I know.
		El Paso, Texas.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
unidentified		How are you doing tonight?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		I've been listening to you since I was about 13 or 14 years old.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you for that.
unidentified		And I am so glad that I finally got to speak with you.
		I'm so excited.
		And I just wanted to share a quick story, if I could, with your audience.
		Okay.
		This happened when I was in middle school.
		There's a pauper cemetery behind the middle school.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Me and a friend of mine were walking, we were walking back there.
		We were walking on the graves, actually.
		And my leg, it sank into one of the graves.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very bad.
unidentified		It was pretty scary, yeah.
		My friend didn't help me out or nothing.
		He just laughed at me.
		And I'm going to share with you.
		I'm sorry?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that was it, huh?
unidentified		No, no, it was just a very scary experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you're really, really, really excited to get through, huh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I am.
unidentified		Can you tell?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I can.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you.
unidentified		Awesome.
		Thank you, Art.
		Good night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have a good night.
		Open lines, folks.
		Anything you want to talk about.
		Not even a suggestion from me.
		You name it.
		We'll talk about it.
		Midnight in the desert.
		I'm Art Bell, rocking in the nighttime.
unidentified		Tonight, tonight, we're gonna make it happen.
		Oh, yeah.
		From the part of the Dark Matter Digital Network, this is Midnight in the Desert with your host, Art Bell.
		Now, here's Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're in Open Lines.
		Anything you want to talk about is fair game, anything at all.
		Let's go overseas.
		Hello there somewhere.
		Peter.
unidentified		G'day, Art.
		Can you hear me well?
		G'day.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do indeed.
unidentified		Oh, great.
		I've got a story about possibly alternate timelines that happened to me about seven years ago.
		I was in the car with my children.
		I was going to the heated pool.
		And I asked my children to put their valuables in the glove compartment, which they did.
		And then we went to the pool.
		We were traveling home.
		And we got home, and I decided we'd go inside.
		And I forgot to remind my children to get their stuff out of the glove compartment.
		A day went by.
		I still hadn't reminded my son to get his watch from the glove compartment.
		And then the next day go by, I'd forget again.
		For about three days, I forgot.
		And then on the third day, third or fourth day, we were going to go to the pool again.
		And we got into the car.
		And I said to my son, oh, Kyle, I forgot to tell you to get your watch from the glove compartment.
		And there was dead silence from the back of the car.
		And I couldn't work out what was going on, why there was such silence, because he normally would respond straight away.
		And I turned around and he was white in the face.
		And he said to me, that's funny, Dad, because I've been wearing my watch all day.
		And I've been showing my friend at school.
		And at that point, I reached over to the glove box and I took the watch out of the glove compartment and I gave it to him.
		And we can't really work out what happened.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you telling me that was an identical watch?
unidentified		It was an identical watch.
		At the time, I decided I'd get the kids while their memories were fresh and we'd write down exactly what happened so that we wouldn't get the mistakes mixed up later on.
		And so anyway, he said he couldn't really remember where he'd got his watch from.
		And he thought he might have got it from my room.
		And I did have a watch that was on the floor of my room, but it wasn't the same watch and it wasn't working.
		And that watch was still there anyway.
		And he still remembers it.
		He's not here at the moment, but he still remembers it.
		And, you know, like I said, it's been about seven years since that happened.
		And the only thing I can think of that would explain it would be that he somehow we moved into a different timeline.
		And I remembered the old timeline and the old timeline came back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is.
unidentified		That's the only.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely weird, Peter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And both watches remained in this timeline.
unidentified		There was only one watch that was in this timeline.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, wait a minute.
		Wait a minute.
		Wait, wait, wait.
		We were in the car when you opened the glove box, picked out the watch, and he was wearing it at the same time.
unidentified		No, no, it wasn't on his wrist anymore.
unidentified		Oh, sorry, I didn't include that part there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, that's a very important part, Peter.
		Very important.
		I'm sorry.
unidentified		Yeah, it's hard.
unidentified		I'm a little nervous because I've never rung in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you, by the way?
unidentified		In Australia?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes.
unidentified		You want to be specific?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure, why not?
unidentified		All right, Bendigo.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, see, I don't know.
unidentified		It's a place north of Melbourne that's about 150k.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, that was a very important part of the story.
		Oh, my goodness.
		What a story.
		Good one, too.
		All right, buddy.
		Thank you very, very much.
		He left out the part that suddenly made you go, oops.
		My goodness.
		Chris, somewhere or another.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		This is Chris in Virginia.
		I'm getting a little bit of echo here.
		Okay.
		So I actually called in on Friday to debate With Matt, and I had something weird happen.
		I went outside because I have roommates and they're all sleeping.
		They have class in the morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You were fully prepared to debate my atheist.
unidentified		Yes, I was, or at least on certain points.
		I had something I wanted to correct him on.
		But while I was out there, I was out there for about 30 minutes and I was looking at the stars.
		And I saw what looked like three stars that were moving across the sky.
		However, they would get closer to each other and further apart from each other.
		They were about an inch or so, in visual terms, away from each other.
		And they would switch positions.
		Not like it was a single object rotating.
		Yeah.
		So we live, or I live, I guess, near the second largest shipyard in the U.S. and near an airbase and an airport.
		And I'm familiar with jets.
		The F-22 flies over my house all the time, and it's quite disruptive.
		But there was no sound or anything.
		And I mean, it was, I've never seen anything like it.
		I don't know if it was some type of test aircraft or what.
		It was flying westward, and it went across the whole sky in about 12 seconds.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know of no aircraft that would display anything like that.
unidentified		Yeah, me either.
		But I did want to correct Matt on something because I actually used to believe it myself.
		What was that?
		I'm a student of comparative religion at Christopher Newport University.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And he made a comment about Horus and Mithra and Jesus and how these were all basically the same figure.
		And I actually, for a while, believed that myself.
		But upon doing a little bit more investigation, I found out that's not really true.
		That Mithras, for instance, was born of a rock and not of a virgin.
		And he sacrificed a bull to eat a dinner with a sun god, which is about the closest parallel you could draw.
		And Horus was never baptized, nor was he killed.
		Osiris, his father, was, but he himself was not.
		And these claims, I found out when I was actually doing a research paper on it last year, originate from a guy called Gerald Massey, who was a 19th century, well, he was involved with Madame Blavatsky.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what do you say to an atheist?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, he just doesn't believe, period.
unidentified		Well, from what I heard from him, it's sort of a contention that I have with a lot of atheists.
unidentified		I obviously can't force someone to believe anything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
		But I mean, there is torture.
		You can torture them until they believe.
unidentified		Well, I try to stay away from that, at least with people I don't know very well.
		But he did not sound like a particularly scientifically minded person, even though I do believe that he studies or at least reads about science.
		I find it hard to believe that he himself actually participates in any scientific experiments.
		That's one of the issues that I have with a lot of, well, I guess popular atheists is that they will rely on scientific theories, but they themselves do very little exploration in those matters.
		So in the end, they are still relying on other people to get their information.
		Oh, well, we have to.
		But ultimately, that is a degree of faith.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Even the Bible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just rely on any religious texts.
unidentified		I mean, you know.
unidentified		And the thing is that if you're going to rely on another human for information, I think, especially when you yourself have never examined any of these things, it's a little hypocritical to me to call someone out on their faith, whatever it may be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, thank you.
		I think an atheist is interesting because it's just, you don't believe anything.
		You don't believe any of it.
unidentified		It's just all fairy tales.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it would have, if we had ever come up with a good debater, it would have been very interesting.
		But, you know, I tried.
		I tried really hard.
		You're on air on the phone.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, all right.
		Thanks for taking my call.
		And I just want to give a quick shout out to the Facebook group.
		I'm just curious if you're familiar with simulation theory.
		I mentioned it a different day that I called.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry, which theory?
unidentified		Simulation theory.
		Essentially, it poses that we live in what we would consider a computer simulation.
		Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The matrix.
unidentified		Sort of.
unidentified		It's a little bit different, but a similar idea.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Similar idea.
unidentified		Yeah, what's really interesting is that there's more and more, I would hesitate to call it evidence, but some science that suggests spooky things.
		For example, there are quasars, which are these large galaxies which have super massive black holes in the middle of them.
		And they're all aligned in certain filaments in the universe that's non-random.
		And there are different other things like plank length and quantum superpositioning, which kind of, it's reminiscent for if you're playing a video game, you can see that walls will render when you look at them.
		But when you're not looking at them, the walls aren't really part of the game because it would use up too much power.
		It's sort of similar, it's a similar idea to how you can see electrons that will exist in every sort of possibility until you look directly at them when they're in one place.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Imagine how horrible it would be if you sat down in front of your computer, moved your mouse, and your wife suddenly shifted rooms.
unidentified		I think that would be incredible because then I would never have to move.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's the direction we're headed anyway, aren't we?
unidentified		A little bit.
		But What I think is really interesting is what you do if this is true, what the solution is to this.
		And I think the solution is what someone has said with the mainstream.
		Reboot!
		To make your own simulation.
		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me say it again.
		Reboot.
		Reboot.
unidentified		Hold on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll be back this midnight.
unidentified		We'll be back this midnight.
		Don't see eye to eye.
		My heart needs protection, and so do I. Remember, when calling midnight in the desert, let the phone ring until answered.
		These calls are unscreened for your listening pleasure.
		Call 1-952-CALLART.
		That's 1-952-225-5278.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that applies, by the way, to Skype as well.
		If you don't get through and, you know, it'll only ring so long, just try again.
		Don't give up.
		Persistence will pay off.
		And I was thinking about this caller and what he said.
		How cool would that be if, or uncool, if one day you went to your computer, you just jogged the mouse a little bit, and your wife went across the room or your child?
		Or something in your environment went whoosh?
		How weird would that be?
		Anyway, you're back on the air, sir.
unidentified		Thanks, Darre.
unidentified		You play the best music in between, I gotta say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		But what I think is really interesting is if we are a simulation, how do we respond to it?
		What do we do if we want to survive?
		What does surviving even mean?
		And what some people think is the right answer, which I think is pretty elegant, is we should be in a race to make our own simulation and to make it as accurate as we can to some type of universe.
		Because assuming that we're being watched, right, someone who's watching us, someone who's watching us will look and see that we've made a simulation, and then they're going to wonder if they're a simulation.
		So they'll stop them from pulling the plug on us.
		And it becomes twiddles all the way down.
		And what's interesting is where does it end?
		Where is the top?
		And I think that's a very fun question to think about.
		And I think it's a very freeing idea.
		And it makes technology seem all the more interesting to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It does.
		All right.
		Thank you so very much for the call.
		And I'm going to ponder that for some time, actually.
		A number of people have posited this theory that we may be living in a simulation.
		And for all we know, we are, right?
		What do we know?
		Again, if I were doing a new Twilight Zone, that's where I'd be going.
unidentified		Just jog that mouse a little bit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nicola on Skype, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi, Rhett.
		This is Nicola.
		The Nicola that Charles was referring to, actually.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, excellent.
		I'm glad you decided to call the show.
		I'm glad you made it in.
		He's not still here, but as you heard, he mentioned you any number of times.
unidentified		I tried to send you a couple of pictures as well.
		I don't know if you got them, but they might be useful for the discussion, if not.
		When did you send them?
		I already did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean during the show?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nicola, during the show?
unidentified		Yes, it was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, see, I can't check my email when I'm doing the program, so I'll get them after the program.
unidentified		Okay.
		If you have any questions or anything like that, I just thought I'd call in and touch base.
		If not, fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what did you think of his project?
unidentified		This project was very interesting.
		They could have put more time and attention to detail into it, but as he said, the funding had run out and there wasn't very much we could do beyond that.
		Some of the things he did not mention were the limitations that were placed on the project because of safety.
		Primarily, it's like nobody in production really wanted to get burned alive, so we kind of like tabled that for something else some other time.
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Getting splashed with liquid aluminum is nobody's idea of a good day.
unidentified		Either that or exposure to a high-intensity microwave either.
unidentified		It's like a ruiner.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do.
		Thank you very much, Nicola, and I'm glad you called to kind of back them up.
		Obviously, the man thought he was really on to something.
		Apparently, he was, because the number of, I mean, the people who have looked at it, yourself, Anassin Haramin, I mean, really, I think he was on to something.
		And he spent $150,000 of his own money.
		So, you know, God bless people like that.
		And one day, somebody like that man, if not that man, will invent something that will take us to the stars.
		Don't doubt it.
		Okay, let's go to the phones, I guess.
		You're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hello.
		Hello.
		Yes.
		I was taken by the guest that you had tonight.
		there were certain questions I had for him about the particular crop circle that he has on his, uh, uh, trailer, but, uh, I'm not able to ask him directly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So there's no point in bringing that up, but it did leave, lead into, You saw the trailer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was very impressive, huh?
unidentified		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very impressive.
unidentified		And that particular crop circle has actually been notorious on the website for being one of the more complicated ones.
		There was an actual alien script that came up 20 days after that initial radar-dish crop circle showed up.
		And then after the radar-dish showed up on June 2nd, 2009, this mysterious script Showed up shortly after.
		And I was really hoping to hear how he had interpreted that script, but that's all water under the bridge in that case.
		But anyway, you did bring up, you know, Ellie Arroway's coming together with a third-dimensional construct from the message that she received.
		And I've put a lot of thought into it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
		Into what?
		You're gone.
		It's too bad.
		Just gone.
		Well, let's stick with the phone, I guess, and go here.
		You're on air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
		Hi.
		Hello, this is Hubert from Reading, Pennsylvania.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		First-time caller, about 20-year listener.
		I had some suggestions for possible guests.
		Okay.
		There's a Dr. Joseph P. Farrell.
		I don't know if you ever heard of him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here's what I would ask you to do.
		I have a really, really nice producer named Heather.
		And if you would email the suggestions to her, you would get action.
		She is producer at artbell.com.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that'll get the job done.
unidentified		All righty.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, thank you very much.
		Anybody with ideas, by all means, go to my producer.
		And, you know, that's the way to get it actually on the way.
		In the meantime, let's, I guess, go to Skype and say hello to Ryan.
unidentified		Hey, how's it going?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's going okay, Ryan.
unidentified		Hey, so I have a question for you.
		Okay.
		What would you do if you had eight days to live?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If I had a watch?
unidentified		If you had eight days to live.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Eight days to live.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's really a good question.
		Eight days to live.
		Why eight days, by the way?
unidentified		Well, eight days from now will be September 23rd.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You think that's going to be the case?
unidentified		Yeah, I believe an asteroid will hit the Earth on that day.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here we are again.
		Another one.
		So then it's really better to ask you because you obviously believe we have eight days to live.
		So what you're going to do?
unidentified		Probably, you know what?
		I'm probably just going to drink some beer, hang out on my back porch, and just kind of watch it all end.
		Really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You honestly believe it's going to end.
unidentified		I mean, yeah.
unidentified		I think NASA is hiding that fact from us to not induce panic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Well, I don't know what to say to you.
		Enjoy your beer.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You should have one too, or I should.
		I rarely, rarely drink a beer.
		Maybe on a very, very hot day.
		Or the last day.
		I might enjoy a beer.
		I wonder how many people really believe this.
		I really do wonder that.
		I'm beginning to get nervous.
		So many people seem to believe it.
		Actually believe it.
		Why would that be?
		I know there's a conjunction of many things all at once.
		And I guess that's what's doing it.
		Or maybe you all are right.
		Ryan, hello.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So anything else or is that it?
unidentified		Well, that's pretty much it.
		I just, you know, anyone who's listening, you know, just relax.
		Don't worry about it.
		You know?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why worry?
		You know, it's going to end.
		All right.
		Good enough.
		Let's go to the phone and somebody or another.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Hi there.
		I'm a longtime listener and so happy that you're back.
		To me, you are radio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, thank you.
unidentified		Anyway, I'm calling to suggest a topic that I believe you've probably touched on in the past.
		I'm interested in the theory of multiple universes and the likelihood of a slipping between them, mostly without being noticed, but I'm calling because of a very, well, my husband and I have both had strange events happen to us in the past, in different states at different times.
		His is really weird, and I'd like to tell you about that.
		We were in a car accident, T-boned by a truck when we were in a small car.
		He was temporarily paralyzed, but we were on the way to the doctor, and so we just continued on to the doctor.
		He was all right after about 15, 20 minutes.
		So a few days later, he had to go in for an MRI.
		And this is where it gets strange.
		He goes into the hospital, we get the paperwork, go up to that department, and there's people sitting behind the desk, and specifically one woman, another one that left.
		And anyway, so we hand over the paperwork and say he's here for his MRI.
		And she said, well, he was just here.
		He just had an MRI.
		And she looked around, I guess, for the paperwork and maybe couldn't find it.
		I don't know.
		Anyway, I said, no, no, we weren't just here, and he didn't have an MRI.
		And she became so frightened that she stayed there for a few minutes and argued with us that he had just been in.
		And she literally, she sent us to sit down and wait for the technician because there wasn't anything else she could do.
		And she got up and ran out of the room.
		So I think, well, maybe that's a little strange.
		But then, of course, I don't go in with him.
		But the technician, the man comes to the door, calls his name, and says, well, you can't have an MRI.
		I just gave you one.
		And we argue again that, no, we just got here, and he has not had this MRI.
		Well, the technician didn't know what to do, but at least he didn't leave the scene.
		He took him in and he had his MRI, and there was some damage, but nothing, you know, we're still around after 46 years of marriage.
		So that was the experience, and that's always stuck with me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It would have been interesting to compare the two MRIs.
unidentified		Well, yes.
		And I don't know what the hospital did.
		I mean, we just kind of let it go with that.
		But I've been thinking about it.
		This happened in 2000, and I have just been wondering about it ever since and always wanting to approach you with it.
		My experience, that was in Nebraska, and my experience happened in Sedona, Arizona.
		And he was waiting out front.
		He wasn't with me when that happened.
		We had got into there, and I had never set my foot on the ground in that state.
		But we were hungry.
		It was late at night.
		We stopped in at a hamburger joint that was very crowded.
		There was a whole row of registers and lines of people, and the room was very crowded.
		I walk into that room, and a lot of people turn around and look at me and say, well, you're back already?
		You were just here.
		And that could have been like somebody who looked like me or was dressed like me or whatever.
		So, I mean, I didn't give as much credence to that as I did.
		You can't be giving people one MRI after another one.
		And that's what really stuck with me.
		And I know you've touched on a lot of different subjects, but I've often wondered if there aren't really multiple universes.
		And oftentimes people can slip from one to another without actually realizing it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm with you all the way.
		But it's interesting that, thank you, that you get witnesses to it.
		In other words, in that case, there was an absolute witness.
		And actually, in both cases.
		Perhaps the first case a little stronger.
		Yes, it's certainly possible.
		We could slip in and out of the current reality into something else.
		We'd never notice.
		But yes, I guess others would.
		Marvin, hello.
unidentified		Good evening, Arvin.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Please turn off your device.
unidentified		Well, I don't have a device on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Whatever it is playing the show.
unidentified		No, I don't have anything playing the show.
unidentified		I'm in the other complete end of the house with an earbud in my ear on my iPhone on Skype.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		So it's some kind of weird Skype thing.
		I guess.
		Anyway, I wanted to talk a second about ham radio and harp because I really think that I don't know whether you've had much time to play on 75 meters this season, but the bands are acting different than they've ever acted before.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I could not agree with you more.
		I absolutely agree with you.
		Conditions, if you want to call them that.
		Okay, I'm hearing that in the background very strongly.
		All right, I'm going to have to terminate because of that.
		But anyway, he's right.
		That man is absolutely right.
		Conditions have changed in a way that is kind of suspicious, frankly, of HAARP.
		I have never quite seen anything like it.
		For those of you who are not ham operators, this will not mean much to you.
		But 75 Meters was an old, dependable amateur radio band, one in which you could go back night after night after night and talk to friends reliably in, you know, a 1,500 mile or less range.
		And that has changed.
		It is now true that 75 meters is no longer reliable in that regard.
		It does what's called going long, and the people that you generally associate and be able to, normally you're able to talk to them reliably are no longer there.
		In other words, you can no longer receive them.
		So I want to, even though he had that going in the background, I had to cut the call.
		The fact of the matter is that he's right.
		Something profound has changed about the lower frequencies of the amateur radio band.
		I don't know what that something is.
		I just know that it has changed.
		It began a few years ago.
		It could be associated with the sunspot cycle, I suppose, or...
		Or it could be associated with HAARP.
		And a lot of ham operators blamed it on HARP.
		HARP, by the way, has now been turned over from the military to a university.
		And what they're going to do with it, I'm going to have to wait to find out.
		Listen, so many hanging on all the lines and all the callers.
		Thank you.
		Sorry I can't get to you.
		We'll do it again.
		I guarantee open lines every time we get the opportunity.
		Good night, all.
unidentified		Good night in the desert.

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