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Sept. 14, 2015 - Art Bell

02:15:34

Art Bell MITD - Charles Maxwell Crop Circles

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	So, I'm going to go ahead and get started. So, I'm going to go ahead and get started. So, I'm going to go ahead and get
	started.
	Music From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I
	bid you good evening, good morning, good afternoon, as the case may be around the world in all its time zones, each
	and everyone covered like a blanket by this program, midnight in the desert.
	I'm Art Bell.
	It's a joy to be here tonight, definitely.
	Welcome back for another week of whatever.
	It's going to be a lot of very good whatever.
	The rules to this program are very simple.
	Easily kept.
	No bad language.
	And only one call per show.
	That's all we have.
	Two rules.
	Now, I want to thank people as usual.
	Tell us, Joe Talbot, Heath Rowland, my webmaster, Heather Way, my producer, Streamguys, LB.net, sales, of course, Pete Everhart, and TuneIn Radio, which gets us out there, Leo Ashcraft, that does Dark Matter News, and let's see, what do I want to mention?
	There is something tonight.
	If you are a, alright, I can't spill the beans, but something really big, a couple of big things actually are going to happen in about two weeks with regard to the show.
	Really cool stuff.
	So, here's what I advise.
	If you are not yet a time traveler, if you are not yet one who has access to our archives, which are getting very large now, by the way, And Time Traveler's status gives you that.
	Access to all our archives, RSS feeds, cool.
	And also the wormhole.
	The famous wormhole.
	If you haven't done that yet, I suggest you get on it.
	And it will be apparent why.
	Now, we did lose one today, and it is so sad.
	It was Quick Carl who decided to leave us.
	He says he is canceling his subscription directly, both to myself and Richard, because of what people on Belgab have been saying about his wife, and the fact that Envy, the guy who owns it, has done nothing to stop it.
	This is sad, Quick Carl.
	Sorry to hear it.
	However, Quick Carl, I'm told, hangs out in the political section of Belgab, which is like hanging out in the hottest section of hell.
	I mean, I'd rather go to the dark net with my Social Security tatted on my forehead here.
	So how that happened and why he blames us, I don't know.
	But anyway, there you go.
	Win a few, lose a few.
	The fires out west are horrible.
	Horrible, horrible.
	We have been getting a great deal of smoke here in the southern part of Nevada from those fires.
	So we know how bad they are.
	But we're not in them.
	And now they're up north.
	Small mountain town north of San Francisco.
	Which was really nice back when they had the bad fires before and opened all their schools and everything up.
	And now that town itself, Middletown, is evacuated and it is gutted by another blaze that shocked firefighters by its strength and speed.
	It's the drought.
	And those are all things coming home to roost.
	And then if we get the projected rain this winter, The fires will at least then be put out by the mudslides.
	I would imagine.
	Alright, I get emails, you know, from people that are strange.
	This one really caught me and I don't know what to make of it.
	It says, I'm going to get right to the point.
	You're going to love this.
	On December 21st, 2010, My girlfriend climbed the ladder that went up to the attic.
	I asked her what she was doing, didn't get a response.
	I grabbed her legs and she was like stone.
	I couldn't move her.
	She was half in, half out of the attic, legs still on the ladder.
	When she finally came down, she was a completely different person.
	Talking different, Acting like a fifties housewife?
	She actually started cleaning and that's what scared me!
	Funny, right?
	Well, in the video, he's got video of all this, she says things I couldn't possibly understand.
	You can hear her growling after I asked her to tell me that Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior.
	Well, maybe she was talking to that That fellow I had on Friday that I couldn't find competition for.
	It's not that God is dead, just some of his people are not real active.
	Anyway, back to the story.
	She says all this mockingly.
	Kind of laughs.
	There are orbs that are constantly flying around the room, which I only saw in the video.
	I even showed her a porno magazine to see what she'd say.
	I got a strange response.
	Put your playthings away, she said.
	Something like that.
	Normally, she would have beaten me.
	Really.
	I would like you to see it.
	The video, that is.
	Get your opinion.
	But you only...
	I don't want to publish this yet.
	There are three videos and in the last one she admits to never going into the room she just cleaned.
	The next day I went into the attic and called out anything that might be there claiming that I was a man of God and you better come face to face with me.
	There was a rocking chair.
	I touched it and it fell to pieces.
	There's just so much to tell.
	But this is a strange story indeed, so I have requested the video.
	He says, Roswells, and thank you.
	So, I requested the video.
	I definitely want to see that.
	It's like she... She started cleaning.
	That's what really scared him.
	I'm sorry.
	Coming up in a moment, Charles Maxwell.
	who was born in london and will have an appropriate accent where he attended millfield and has been overheard telling people quite proudly that jeremy clarkson of top gear did also well he didn't actually maxwell attended southern methodist university in texas and graduated with a degree in english he attended graduate school at the university of colorado denver while making a field full of secrets that's uh... his book Maxwell discovered the stunning, hidden science of crop circles, which led him down the path of rendering their 2D designs into a 3D machine.
	A ship driven by never-before-seen propulsion technology.
	Maxwell lives in Malibu, California.
	This is very contact-ish, isn't it?
	A machine from Crop Circles?
	I recall... Well, anyway, let us bring on our guest and say good evening.
	Good evening, Joss.
	Good evening, Art.
	Thank you so much for having me.
	I'm very excited about this.
	I'm very happy to have you.
	So, where are you located right now?
	I'm actually... I'm in North Malibu.
	That's where I reside when I'm not making films.
	You are there, okay.
	Yeah.
	All right, so you're a filmmaker.
	You're not using a speakerphone, are you, Charles?
	I'm not, no.
	I'm on the handset.
	Is it working okay?
	It is.
	You just must be in a slightly echoey room.
	I am, yes.
	I'm in a very rectangular stone room, so you're going to get a bit of an echo.
	Okay, all right.
	I'll live with it.
	All right, so The first question here is, what is a crop circle?
	And I don't, you know, I don't want to ask that, because I kind of know what one is, and I think most of my audience knows what crop circles are, unless you have a definition that goes beyond the norm.
	I don't, actually.
	I'm on the same page as you.
	Crop circles are pretty self-explanatory.
	But I think for me, what was really important is I've been a UFO buff for many years, as long as I can remember.
	And just like many of your listeners, I'm really interested in what's out there.
	But I got frustrated with all these videos.
	There just seemed to be a few pixels dancing around on a screen.
	There's very little science we can do with that, for those of us who are actually interested in getting to the bottom of the phenomenon.
	Very true.
	So it was a fantastic opportunity for me.
	It's not a pixel, it's a giant formation in the wheat.
	Sometimes if the farmer is kind enough, he will leave it there until harvest.
	You can have a picnic in this thing.
	You can stay in them to your heart's desire, with his permission, the farmers.
	And you can do some really simple experiments.
	you can look at the plants in depth. So it was a real chance for someone like me who is
	fascinated by the sense of the other to go and really find out what was going on. And again,
	I have to be brutally honest. The first time I looked at crop circles, I wasn't impressed.
	But when I actually stepped into a crop circle, everything changed dramatically.
	What did you feel?
	Well, my first crop circle was a formation called the Pie Circle in 2008 in a place called
	Barbary Castle in Wiltshire, England. And I felt overwhelmed.
	If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me.
	It really threw me for a loop.
	Again, imagine, and this is easy for listeners to imagine, that you've been searching for so long and then you're suddenly up against the real thing.
	It's a bit unnerving.
	It's a bit spooky.
	To actually be walking around in a circle where you look at the plants and you say, goodness me, I don't think this is fake.
	I think this is the real deal.
	That's just about the most exciting feeling you can have in the world.
	All right.
	Instead of asking what a crop circle is, since we all know, I'd rather ask, how do you separate the wheat from the chaff, no pun intended, with regard to crop circles, the real ones, the That's a very good question.
	And what it boils down to is, it's literally this simple.
	Jeff Wilson is an American researcher with the ICCRA.
	That's the International Crop Circle Research Association.
	and he says it's this simple folks all you need is a ruler and 35 samples from in the circle,
	35 from without the circle which we call our control and then you measure the length of
	something called the apical node of the plant. Now whether it's barley or wheat,
	these freestanding storks, they have knuckles just like your finger and what happens is when we
	measure them statistically these knuckles in certain formations there is a significant
	difference between the controls they have elongated.
	And in certain instances, we're getting a bit ahead of ourselves here, we have something called an expulsion cavity in that apical node in the plant, where it literally explodes from the inside out, rather like a chest.
	Right.
	And the conventional thinking is that probably it indicates some sort of microwave has been at work.
	Hold on one second.
	I didn't do my break-in, so I better do it.
	They insist on this stuff.
	Charles Maxwell is my guest.
	And quick Carl, this one goes out to you.
	From the kingdom of Nye in the high desert, I am your leader, I am your fighter, you're my driver.
	I am your fighter, you're my driver.
	From the kingdom of Nye in the high desert.
	Always have.
	You're wondering why I like this song.
	heartburn please bring us a little at one nine five two two two five fifty two
	seventy eight that's one nine five two
	all part and answers because i like
	or always have
	what do i like this song uh... alright so
	charles maxwell is our guest and uh... i was mentioning that uh... generally those
	little explosions are you know i i i
	spent years with crop circles linda
	and i became convinced uh... beyond any shadow of a doubt that some of them are
	real as in not man-made and not done by
	the environment And that doesn't leave much.
	So I believe in them.
	But I also believe that a bunch of them are hooey, and that is one way you decide.
	I guess nobody's going to be in the field with a microwave oven snapping those things, so that's one clue for sure.
	What else?
	Yeah, definitely the expulsion cavities are pretty hard to fake.
	What we also get, and this has been recorded by people like Dr. Terence Meaden, again Jeff Wilson with the ICCRA, and a group called BLT Research.
	Who were the superstars of the science aspect of this phenomenon?
	And what all of those folks noticed was they went into these formations with magnetometers, with various sensitive instruments, and they were able to detect some kind of pollution, microwave and plasma pollution, in various circles.
	And it fluctuated.
	Some circles would be very heavy in microwave, and some would be very heavy in plasma.
	And so they looked at this and they said, And obviously we're ignoring the fakes here.
	But in these microwaves, in these plasma circles, what's happening to the plants?
	What's happening to the physiology?
	And in fact, Levengood, W.C.
	Levengood, who's part of this BLT research team, he's no longer with us, unfortunately.
	He passed away last year.
	He was a botanist, and he actually published in peer-reviewed journals on this.
	So this is not just conjecture.
	And I've got one of them here.
	Oh, I'm very well aware it's not conjecture.
	It's real.
	I'm convinced of that.
	So we don't have to spend a lot of time on it, because I'm preaching to the choir, and I think most of the people out there would probably agree with me.
	There have been several, honestly, Charles, where I just went, no way.
	There's no way humans did that.
	Period.
	End of story.
	No tracks out.
	Very intricate.
	Never could have been done by humans.
	So, okay.
	I'm with you.
	This is what people have to understand is the English summertime, you have about four and a half hours of darkness on the Wiltshire Plains.
	Light and sound carry extremely well out there.
	So, for instance, if I use my cell phone in a field, you can see me almost a mile away at night.
	Same with dogs barking and things like that.
	So it becomes harder and harder, especially if you bear in mind there's people like me out disguised as bushes every season.
	I'm trying to catch you making these circles.
	So it's the microwave and the plasma.
	You've actually done that?
	Yep.
	Stunned yourself as a bush and went out there and waited?
	That's right.
	You go out and you look for the hoaxes.
	Now what we do, we did actually, we thought we caught some people and you can see in the film how we actually managed to ambush some Spanish backpackers who most definitely were not making crop circles.
	So these are some of the problems we run into.
	And then you mentioned, obviously, hoaxing.
	You've just kind of touched on that.
	That's a huge, huge element where people go out and with boards and string, they will try and trip you up.
	Right.
	Let me ask you straight out then, what percentage of crop circles do you think are hoaxed?
	OK, that's a fantastic question.
	Let me preface it by saying Colin Andrews, who's the father of the phenomenon, got into a lot of trouble a few years for claiming it was about 85 percent fake.
	I'm gonna say it's more like 95% fake really um and in fact you'll get in more trouble Yeah, and the phenomenon's in slight decline.
	I have to be honest there as well where it seems like it's just kind of winding down Okay based on your accent.
	I have another question.
	I mean obviously you'd be in position to answer this why?
	Great Britain ah another good question right well we have to look at the The environment, the landscape, and in particular that very small area between Avery, Silbury Hill and Stonehenge in Wiltshire.
	What's different about that?
	Why is it crop circle central?
	And what it turns out, this goes to the work of John Burke, is that most of the crop circles in the world come down in this very small area, which happens to be over the largest chalk aquifer in the world.
	So that's very interesting.
	So then John Burke looked at that and said, What's going on here?
	Why is this the case?
	And what he discovered is that over the summer months, as the water, the enormous amount of rain that we get in England over the rest of the year, moves through that water table, that chalk aquifer, it creates a ground charge.
	And that perhaps this ground charge is how the real circles are being created.
	Well, how about this, Charles?
	If I were the government, and thank God I'm not, But if I were, and highly placed in the government, somewhere as a science advisor, perhaps, I don't know, to the Prime Minister, you know what I'd do?
	If I found that crop circles, some of them were real, and they had real messages in them for humanity, and they really did come from out there somewhere, I would start making fake crop circles, and I'd try to debunk the whole damn thing.
	Yeah, you'd run some disinfo.
	I think that's what's happening on as well.
	You see it a lot.
	You see some teams, if I can be honest, that are not just out there for fun.
	They're extremely professional.
	They're extremely coordinated.
	To give you an idea, some of these circles, they cover the length of a football field.
	They require a few other lights and surveying equipment to even attempt So I'll go a little bit further, actually, Art, and say that not only are there some very serious people making some of these formations, but they seem to have the kind of accuracy we only see really from military-trained individuals who work in units in the middle of the night.
	I'm really glad you brought up the military, because I am curious whether you've had any interaction with the military when doing your research.
	I have, incidentally.
	So let me give you an example.
	To find out how close they're all clustered crop circles, we do things called aerial sorties in helicopters.
	It's also good for us to show you, you know, we can film them.
	In order to do anything like that in Wiltshire, it's two-thirds militarized.
	So they're constantly running live fire drills.
	You have to clear your uh... flight with uh... at least three a air bases military
	bases uh... that are in the area
	and so if the military has to cooperate with you and they and they
	give you clearance may say for instance there's some apache gunships on the
	deck be careful about those stay above your own feet
	and you get all this kind of stuff uh...
	i think there are well i know that they're as curious as we are
	because i've actually filmed we have in the film we have an apache gunship uh...
	below its kind of uh... legal you know interaction uh... uh... zone
	And it's very curiously examining a yin-yang formation.
	And we saw this a few times.
	So I think that they're trying to get to the bottom of it, just like we are.
	And perhaps they're a little bit shaken by the fact that these things can appear.
	Right under our noses.
	And it's good to know why and who's doing it.
	And many of those questions haven't been answered.
	Well, I know that you are going to make a claim tonight that you have put 2D crumb circles together in a 3D visualization and came up with a plan for a ship.
	Now that's right out of contact almost.
	It's very, isn't it?
	Yeah, we were aware of that.
	Doug Ruby, years ago I interviewed, and he was doing something similar, only he rotated, if I recall correctly, the crop circles.
	He actually did it on a phonograph, and found they were 3D, and it made some progress in that area, and I'm sure you've heard of Doug Ruby, yes?
	I have indeed, yes, and in fact we reached out to Mr. Ruby because it was so similar, his method of articulating these shapes.
	Well, as you say, what he was doing, he was spinning them very fast and they were kind of, you were getting the illusion of solid shapes there.
	That's right.
	The only difference from what we were doing is we were actually lathing Uh, these shapes as wire models.
	So what we got was a lot closer to a blueprint than a solid state kind of the shape of a cross.
	Okay, so a wire model would look very, would be 3D-ish.
	If you lathe it, yes.
	So you have to find what's the central axis of rotation and then you just take it from a 2D image and you lathe it around that central axis.
	And you end up looking at something that looks a lot like a blueprint for a machine.
	So that's what happened was we had actually returned from England, having been in 42 different crop circles, about five of which perhaps, if we're really being honest, could have been real.
	Two or three were definitely real.
	And we come back and we're kind of stumped.
	We've reached a dead end in terms of our research.
	That's when I was contacted by an inventor.
	By the name of Nicola Romanski, who said, look, you've got to see this.
	I've articulated a particular crop circle that was called the Sanctuary from 2009, which actually came down while we were on the ground.
	We weren't able to get to it in time before it was harvested, but we were really interested.
	And when I saw this decoding in a very simple Autodesk video, it blew my mind.
	I thought, well, there's several things we're looking at here that look very much like blueprints.
	It looks like they're describing some kind of boundary conditions for an energy field.
	We could see that there were elements that seemed to suggest the use of mazes.
	the use of mazes. So again, you know, it's very interesting when you see a blueprint,
	So again, it's very interesting when you see a blueprint, what you think is a blueprint,
	whether you what you think is a blueprint, and you find traces of what could be microwave
	and you find traces of what could be microwave technology.
	technology, having already established there's microwave energy in these real circles. So
	Having already established there's microwave energy in these real circles.
	So we saw a match there.
	we saw a match there. And in particular, we were looking at the top of that formation.
	And in particular, we were looking at the top of that formation.
	And if you articulate and, and turn the top of that formation into a 3d blueprint, you're
	looking at what looks identically to a klystron array for a microwave. So that blew my mind.
	And I thought, at that stage, looking at that, looking at the fact that this was all meaned
	out using the golden section. And looking at the final fact, because we're trying to
	be scientific here are so the circles that we articulated had to have certain conditions.
	They had to have off-the-charts plant damage.
	Alright, Charles, hold off-off-off-off the charts plant damage.
	Hold it right there.
	We'll come back to you.
	A klystron, huh?
	Interesting.
	I used to work with klystrons.
	I wonder if it could have been a klystron in a satellite.
	With USAF on the side.
	I'm Art Bell.
	Well this is Midnight in the Desert.
	From the Kingdom of Nigh, this is Midnight in the Desert with Art Bell.
	Please call the show at 1952-225-5278.
	That's 1952.
	Call Art.
	My guest is Charles Maxwell.
	He has examined and deciphered crop circles in the third dimension.
	And from them, he has discovered a design for a ship.
	That deserves a pause, right?
	A ship?
	You mentioned Klystrons.
	I used to work with Klystrons.
	I built the head end, that means the satellite gear and the processing gear, and the microwave gear to distribute the signal in Las Vegas many years ago, and then was in charge of all that.
	We used to be up in a tower, frequently, trying to get our microwave shots right, and I remember one day, Working on something and I noticed my leg was getting really warm and I looked down and I had I Had my leg right in front of the center of the dish and so I was cooking Myself and if I hadn't moved I would have been like one of those little buds that exploded anyway Charles welcome back What makes you think?
	You mentioned a klystron.
	Indeed, a klystron.
	A klystron strong enough in a military satellite could do the kinds of things that we see in these fields.
	Has that occurred to you?
	Oh, yeah, absolutely.
	That's a great point.
	In fact, what I thought is that military satellites is one solution, but it could also just be weather satellites.
	Let's put it this way.
	If you want to retask a satellite and make sure that you've positioned it correctly, One of the ways to do that, and perhaps to have a little
	laugh as well, would be to create some kind of location technique involved in the ground.
	So I think that they can definitely be the result of satellite technology.
	And in fact, that is perhaps the most probable source.
	It's very interesting when you look at crop circles, only 20% of them have any kind of
	association with orbs or actual UFOs.
	And that's a bit confusing.
	So we look at this and we say, well, where is the message originating from?
	And to be honest, it seems like it's a really loud conversation with several different sources,
	some of whom we know are hoaxing.
	But there's several conversations going on at the same time.
	Well, Charles, a weather satellite would be unlikely to have a klystron.
	You know, they're generally doing photography at various levels.
	I wouldn't know that, Art, so I'm glad you cleared that up for me.
	But that doesn't mean, though, Charles, that a military satellite designed, for example, to stop an ICBM in its lift phase might not do something like that.
	Right.
	Powerful.
	In other words, yeah.
	Yeah.
	Again, we were looking at less the cause and kind of we were looking at the effect and saying, well, does what is this machine designed to do that we might be seeing here?
	If we were to build this, for instance, What's it going to do for us?
	Alright, well, we'll certainly get to that.
	But you said you did have interaction with the military in some of your researching of crop circles.
	Now, again, think about it.
	If the military did it, they might send somebody out to take a look at what they did.
	Or, if it was done by others, as many of us suspect, they definitely would send somebody out to try and figure out what it means.
	So, when you dealt with the military, at what level?
	Very basic in terms of like being in a helicopter flying out of Thruxton Air Base, sorry not Air Force Base, Thruxton Air Base, which is a commercial airfield.
	We would fly out of there in our helicopters and of course any movement that you make in Wiltshire, which is two-thirds militarized, you need their permission.
	So they're actually being, the military do cooperate, they're not as nefarious in this particular instance. And in fact, my
	uncle's a colonel, was a lieutenant colonel for the MOD. And so we know that they're very
	interested when you talk to people like John Martinau, who's been associated, he's a brilliant guy, he's
	actually more of an astronomer, a rogue astronomer. But, you know, he had noted that when he talked
	to friends of his who were in the military that they say look we're just as curious as you
	are We'd really like to get to the bottom of it because this is an invasion of our airspace several times a summer.
	Do you know what I mean?
	Yes.
	So they are curious.
	I wish I could tell you more.
	There's something that Colin Andrews was a part of called Operation Blackbird.
	Uh, which was supposed to be, uh, an operation involved where the military and researchers kind of got on the same page and tried to get to the bottom of this.
	Um, ultimately, uh, Blackbird wasn't very successful.
	Uh, what seems to have happened is some hoaxes came in under their noses and, um, created a crop circle.
	Um, so there was a lot of confusion and not a lot was achieved.
	Um, what did come out of Blackbird, and this was confirmed by a radio personality, was a denotice.
	The first D-notice since the war.
	I'm sorry, a what?
	A D-notice is something that's issued in England, which is where they literally shut down the press and they say, look, this is a national security issue.
	Shut down your cameras until we know what's going on.
	Yes, I understand a lot of that goes on in Great Britain.
	So now there's disputes about this.
	For instance, Nick Pope, who did used to work with the Ministry of Defense, has said, look, there was no de-notice.
	But again, we have radio personalities who really had no official connection with the crop circles,
	confirming that in fact they were told to shut down their...
	Confirming it based on what, though?
	On being... confirming it because they were on site and they were told to shut down their equipment.
	That would do it.
	So, and that's a fact. That happened.
	Okay.
	Now why a denotice was issued, I'm not sure.
	I'm not going to pretend.
	But I can certainly guess that they saw either a circle or an orb or something they couldn't account for.
	And so they wanted to really, you know, there's all kinds of protocols that they have to follow.
	All right.
	Now you claim there is a hidden science of crop circles.
	What do you mean?
	Well, this gets back to the aquifer tech, the aquifer technology, and the fact that they seem to be tracing out for us, because they often come down right on these ancient sites, so they'll be across the road from Stonehenge, or they'll be across the road from Silbury Hill, and they seem to be describing a fertility science to us.
	Well, again, this is the work of John Burke, and what he noticed is that Just try and keep it really simple.
	In the morning, when the sun comes up, there's a tide of, like, electrons and photons that wash over the landscape as the sunlight comes up.
	And when this happens, there are places in the landscape called electromagnetic discontinuities.
	This was Burke's work.
	And that's a fancy way of saying the rocks simply change density and type.
	So you might have a strata of slate in the middle of limestone or something, and it changes the ground charge.
	And you get these magnetic anomalies, in fact.
	As long as we are now at this point, Charles, sorry to interrupt.
	You've heard the remarkable, or seen, I'm sure, the remarkable news about Stonehenge.
	And I wonder how you feel about that.
	I mean, it's so much more than what we can see.
	Just fill me in on that.
	Oh, really?
	Because I do know that they found a lot more of the complex, but I've got to be honest, I haven't looked at it in depth.
	Okay, well, they found roughly a hundred stones beneath the ground, Charles, that are arranged in something of a semi-circle in front of Stonehenge.
	It's quite remarkable.
	I mean, it's so much bigger than what we see above ground.
	And maybe all of that winds into all of this somehow.
	Yeah, I think it's very interesting.
	I didn't know that.
	I can tell you, for instance, that every stone circle actually has an avenue or two of, again, standing stones.
	And it almost describes a womb, if you see it from the air.
	So that's interesting.
	But what it seems like, what was happening here, is if you look at Levengood's work on the blown nodes, just to go back there for a sec, he did a lot of experiments and he noticed that the next year, in real circles, the crops that grew there were stronger, and had a greater yield of protein, and were just overall healthier, by about 20-30% from the controls.
	So, again, the question is why?
	What's going on here?
	And it seems like microwave radiation, by the way, kills plants.
	But plasma energy seems to have the opposite effect.
	If we have negatively charged ions in the atmosphere, it seems to really help what Levengood called embryogenesis, the actual germination of the seeds, the very, like, Mystical kind of, you know, the process of life itself seemed to be boosted by these plasma fields.
	So, we then get to this idea that the ancients were aware of these magnetic anomalies.
	They built their temples over them.
	They went there to worship, but also they would take their seeds, you see, place them there overnight, they become electrically charged, and they'd get the same effects.
	So what Burke said is, look, this is a fertility science that we've forgotten that's being described pretty accurately here.
	And these crop circles are actually drawing our attention back to these sites where we find these magnetic anomalies.
	And this is the case not just in England, but I found this was the case also at Serpent Mound in Ohio, where we had a crop circle come down in 2006.
	And so you find this Not just in Wiltshire, but elsewhere as well.
	So you think it's fertility related?
	Yes, I do.
	I do.
	I think it has to do with, you know, germinating the seeds.
	If you have a technology that guarantees you a greater yield and a successful harvest, you have an immediate advantage over your neighbors.
	And especially back in the day when things, when you couldn't guarantee a crop necessarily.
	An advantage like this was hard to ignore.
	So you think this fertility thing just applies to crops?
	It applies to the crop, yes.
	But you could, I mean, theoretically you could, you know, these energy fields can be beneficial for you too.
	Well then it's been woefully overdone.
	We've got six and a half billion people on the planet.
	Yeah, yeah, exactly.
	But that's why it's so interesting, you see, if we can find something that gives us an edge where perhaps...
	We can grow crops for, you know, easier.
	We can guarantee, we can make some dent in the growing food problem.
	We're going to need it.
	You know, as you know, yeah, we're running into food and water shortages of epic proportions.
	So it goes beyond being a mere curiosity about UFOs and it becomes something that you really must look at.
	All right.
	Let's get right down to it.
	How did you, you claim you broke the crop circle code.
	So what is the code?
	How did you break it?
	I actually don't make that claim, Art.
	I claim that I found something.
	We definitely were able to articulate some circles and pull out some blueprints.
	Then we did our best to bring those into the real world through a very long two-year R&D process, working with aerospace engineers.
	But in terms of the code actually being properly broken, I think the man you should talk to is Nassim Haramein, because he has A much greater kind of understanding of the holistic code.
	Crop circles confirm this code, but he finds it in many other places as well, like the Bible, and in the geometry of various cells and processes.
	So he's a fantastically gifted guy.
	Yes, I understand you ran your work by him, and with a couple of modifications he showed you how this ship or drive could be made to work.
	Yeah, his is not a ship.
	It's a yeah, it's a it's an energy drive.
	And yes, so we took I actually flew out to Kauai, where he's based.
	Because at that stage, our project was ramping down, we hit some major, major roadblocks, and we were running out of money.
	And I come to the conclusion that we were the only people to try this in the world we had to try, but it looks like it's going to.
	All right, well, I want to know what you did.
	First of all, When did it come to you that what you had designed could be a drive or part of a ship?
	That it was essentially a schematic on how to build this drive?
	I mean, how did that come to you?
	Yeah, that's a good question.
	In talking with Nicola, who had originally decoded the first circle, I said to him, first of all, what are we looking at?
	And we discussed things like the klystron, the fact that it seemed to have boundary conditions for some electromagnetic field, so then we thought that means there might be magnets involved, that we might have to generate our own electrical field.
	Well, when you have klystrons, you have magnets, right?
	Right.
	Well, this was new to me.
	I mean, I'm not a scientist, by the way.
	Nicole is an electrical engineer, so I was playing catch-up the whole time.
	But what I discovered is that, in fact, There are certain things that you need.
	And this is where Nassim agreed with us.
	He said, you guys were right about the rotation.
	You were right about trying to manipulate plasma.
	And you're right in general about the physics that you're playing with.
	But he said, you guys were trying to spin metal, which is true.
	We were trying to spin something called a secondary disk, which is the skirt of our kind of UFO design.
	All right, well, if you don't mind, how far did you actually get?
	Can you describe and or do you have photographs of It's in the film, actually.
	It's very clearly described how far we got.
	We got to testing the plasma ignition system.
	That would have been kind of the heart of the device.
	And we were doing it in... We were trying to get a steady kind of stream of plasma there, so we could bend it with the magnets.
	This is the idea.
	And it's kind of based on the theory that we have that the universe doesn't run on gasoline.
	So what is it run on?
	What's it doing?
	And can we copy that?
	And that was what Sweet Potato, that's the name that we gave the machine, by the way, that's what Sweet Potato was trying to do.
	We were trying to imitate the universe, or the galaxy, at whichever level you want to understand.
	Where's all this energy coming from, this EM?
	Can you give me a sense of the actual hardware that you did put together?
	Yeah, so what we did was we had, we used I think 20, between 12 and 24 neodymium magnets
	that we had to get actually cut to order.
	Right.
	We worked with a company in Simi Valley called Ritech.
	They were aerospace engineers and they helped us with the chassis,
	which we made out of aluminum 606-1.
	That's actually, to people at home, that's the stuff that commercial airlines are built out of.
	Right.
	So we were worried about the stresses and the tensions that it was going to undergo, spinning at so many revolutions a minute, that we thought we better get the best material.
	So these magnets were spinning?
	Yeah, well actually the magnets were going to be stationary.
	They were going to spin the disc.
	Okay.
	So it would be like an Oreo cookie and the cream would be spinning.
	And the black, the cookie itself would be the disc.
	Okay, that's starting to sound like a saucer.
	Yes.
	If you look at the design art, it's very saucer-like.
	And again, I said, well, this is just spooky.
	This looks like we're building a UFO.
	And what Nicola described to me is, if you look at the electromagnetic field we were trying to generate around the machine, in the same way that a sailboat is designed uniquely to travel by wind, we were trying to harness EM kind of waves.
	How many crop circles actually went into what was the final design?
	Effective we would have been but that was the idea was to to really try and create this
	self-contained standing Wave function and then see if we could do if that would
	affect the plasma in the center of that reaction How many crop circles actually went into what was the final
	design?
	Yeah, initially it was eight But we had to narrow that down to three because our
	criteria was so strict, okay So for instance, Nicola said, look, I really think that this is a boundary condition in this crop set.
	And I said, well, you can't use, it has to be all there.
	So let's take what we know is real.
	Let's make sure the nodes are all blown in these designs because I'm not interested in hoax circles.
	Right.
	And then let's see how they fit together.
	And to be honest, that was a problem because they didn't come with labels or this part goes there.
	It was very much like I said, there were certain elements you see a klystron and you think, wow, maybe there's microwave energy being modulated here.
	But then how exactly we pull that off.
	It had never been done before, you see.
	So every step of the way we had to come up with our own solution.
	And I'll give you a simple example.
	How do you mount this thing with all these magnets and spinning pieces?
	What's your mounting technique?
	I mean, we ended up with just sticking stuff together with glue, which I thought was, you
	know, was guaranteed to fail under stress.
	So we had some problems.
	I'm not going to say it went...
	Glue is probably not top of the line for Andrew Steller possible drive.
	I think, you know, it's extremely...
	Charles, you're going to have to hold on.
	When we come back, we'll try and get a better mental picture, if not a picture, of what you put together.
	I want to picture it in my head, and I don't quite yet know what I'm doing.
	I'm not sure.
	I'm not sure.
	In that darkest time between dusk and dawn, from the high desert, it's Art Bell's Midnight
	in the Desert.
	Now, here's Art.
	Charles Maxwell is my guest.
	He attempted to build a drive from crop circles.
	And I'm trying to get a sense in my mind, mechanically, of what this was like.
	Obviously, he built a disk, and interior to that disk were the magnets?
	Yes, sir.
	So the way it worked... I'm sorry, how many again, please?
	There were about... This is a long time ago, actually.
	We're talking a few years.
	I believe there were 12.
	Well, large magnets, neodymium magnets, they're incredibly strong.
	By the way, they're the same kind of magnets used in your MRIs.
	Okay.
	And then in the center we had what was essentially a spark plug.
	We were trying to create a little plasma flame.
	And then we hoped that that rotating EM field would be strong enough with these neodymiums to do something weird to that plasma, to warp it.
	When you say a spark plug, do you mean literally a spark plug?
	Yeah, well actually it wasn't.
	It was doing similar things to a spark plug.
	It was called an Aqua Pulser and it hadn't come to market yet.
	We got the inventor to, who's a very nice guy, and we got him to lend us a prototype.
	And this would create a plasma flame for us to mess around with.
	But ultimately, if I'm being honest, we had a lot of trouble Maintaining that flame.
	But the real trouble was getting the magnets to rotate the secondary disc when we couldn't actually figure out a mounting technique.
	So in the film you'll see us testing the ignition system.
	We're bench testing it.
	It's not actually in the shop.
	It hasn't been Fully integrated into the design yet, because we wanted to bench test it first.
	You know, everybody, it seems to me Charles, everybody who tries to design these drives actually does take a very similar route to yours, or some variation thereof, generally with rotating magnetics and something like a Jacob's Ladder or what have you in the center, and sometimes modulated Or kicked off with lasers.
	You know, so I've heard this from many different guests.
	So anyway, I guess, and so this specific design came from, I believe you said three... Yeah, three crop circles.
	So there were two in England, and there was one actually by Serpent Mound in Ohio.
	That when we articulated them, they didn't require any additional tinkering.
	It was, you're just staring at a blueprint.
	And so one of them, for instance, would describe boundary conditions for the field.
	Another one, like I said, would have kind of the klystron and the majority of the machine would be described there.
	But there's part, I'm not going to lie here, there was stuff that we really looked at and we said, well, what on earth is that?
	uh... and and uh... it was up to make you really nicola to uh...
	to try and figure that out uh...
	now traditionally let's say uh...
	not just building a new uh... vehicle uh... one guy or a few guys have an idea
	then you then you handed off to four hundred other engineers and scientists
	and then they will outsource uh...
	but instead we put this all in the call is lapse it was between the caller and i
	uh... my producer docs fail and try to figure out how do we do what we have
	well at least we have never done before and we don't think anyone else has
	And right as it was all falling to pieces, I discovered that, uh, this man, Nassim Haramein, was doing essentially the exact same thing.
	Okay, so you went to Nassim with the plans you had, and when he saw them, he said what?
	Well, we flew to Kauai, he's a really lovely fellow, incredibly busy, but he met with us over lunch and he said, look, you guys are really, you know, you shouldn't beat yourself up because I was in a pretty, I was a bit depressed, you know, in that state.
	I thought we had failed.
	But I was encouraged that someone else was coming at it from a relatively similar angle.
	Although I have to say, Nassim's code is not our code.
	His is much more elegant, much more cohesive, and has multiple sources, whereas we were just working from crop circles.
	What Nassim found in crop circles was confirmation of what he already knew.
	It was this one shape, particular shape, Uh, that he was seeing from, uh, that I believe was related to kind of Buckminster Fuller type geometries.
	Sure.
	Um, and he was seeing this shape from a variety of different angles.
	So it was like the circle makers were articulating it in every possible, uh, variation for him.
	Well, if Nassim, if Nassim said these things, I'm impressed because I interviewed him not long ago.
	He's a very, very bright guy.
	Yeah, he's a lot brighter than I am.
	Now, what he said was, because I asked him, I said, where did we go wrong?
	Were we even onto something?
	Did I waste my time?
	That's the question.
	It's a bit of a loaded question, but I was in a particular funk and he said, look, guys, so you really were right about some fundamental things.
	You were right about the rotation.
	You were right about the plasma.
	You were right to try.
	And then he told us about, he said, look, Edison found a thousand ways not to make a light bulb.
	Before he found the right way.
	And then he referred us to the Wright Brothers, which I think is overstate.
	We're nowhere near the Wright Brothers.
	But the point being...
	When the Wright Brothers actually performed their first flight, there was math art that came out in major publications and in newspapers saying, this is a hoax, this is ridiculous, and here's the math to prove that human flight is totally impossible.
	And we include those articles in the film.
	So you can see, you know, he made a lovely point and he really encouraged us.
	But what it comes down to is why is he going to succeed or why is he going to get closer
	than we are?
	And it comes down to this, because I did ask him, I said, what did we do wrong?
	He said, you can't spin metal that fast.
	He said, your math was way off.
	And again, this is math that had never been done really before.
	He said, but your metal would liquefied once you got over a certain number of RPMs and
	you still wouldn't have got close to the kind of energy you need for a kind of a singularity
	for that plasma to kind of fold in on itself and collapse in an implosion.
	And he said, so I said, well, how do you do it then?
	He said, you can't spin the metal.
	You have to spin the field.
	And the light bulb went off in my head, because it's a genius way of approaching it.
	So instead of spinning metal and getting doused in liquid aluminum, right, while you're performing this experiment, he actually has created amplifiers that he's patented that will spin the electric field instead.
	It's a much more elegant solution, and I think he's going to get some kind of effect from it.
	If not, you know, and he already showed, he demonstrated for me, I'm not really allowed to talk about exactly what he did, but he showed us some very simple devices that he had made, you know, according to the design, the geometries of the vacuum, as he calls it.
	And these things are literally drawing four volts and I don't know from where.
	And I've seen this with my own eyes.
	They're not hooked up to any kind of power source.
	So it's exciting stuff working with that guy.
	Not working, but getting to pick his brain for an afternoon and having him say, look, you guys, you got close,
	but you really should be spinning things that aren't matter.
	So that was a revelation.
	Well, I'm telling you, there are many, many people right now, Charles, working on various forms of drives,
	whether they be an electromagnetic drive or whether they be some other form.
	It's really an intense area of work right now, because if man ever wants to really go to space, you know, beyond possibly going to the moon, if we want to go anywhere Real.
	And we want to get there in a reasonable amount of time and not devote generations of travelers to it.
	It's going to be the only way.
	Thank you for making a really important point.
	Combustion technology won't get us very far.
	So that's kind of what we were up to.
	And again, people might say, well, you're dabbling in the new age, you know.
	But for me, it's very old age.
	These geometries, they're about the way that the universe works, the way it was created.
	How is it doing what it's doing?
	Can we copy it? No one's going to sue us, certainly, because it's, you know, the creation.
	But can we replace combustion technology with implosion tech?
	And for people at home, what's the difference?
	It is the fact that when you blow stuff up, you do get enormous energy, but it's quite inefficient in the long run.
	And the idea that we can implode things and actually get more energy out of the equation is tantalizing.
	I wanted to explore it.
	Well, okay, so this is ended.
	Where do you go now?
	Yeah, well, what we...
	Like I said, we ran out of money.
	Yeah, I get that.
	We had to shut down.
	And so for me now, you know, I stay in touch with Nicola.
	We're still friends.
	And Nicola is moving forward with this work, but it's going to take funding.
	What do you think you spent so far?
	I'll tell you what I spent on the R&D project.
	We spent about $150,000.
	Good Lord.
	Dollars, yeah, it's a lot of money.
	It is when it's coming out of your pocket.
	That's coming out of my pocket.
	I really put my money where my mouth was.
	Well, I'll give you props for that.
	Not many people would find a new way to look at three crop circles and pony up $150,000 to try and prove their point.
	I would really love to see the final rendering, or is that proprietary?
	No, absolutely not.
	In fact, it's in the film.
	It's even in the trailer.
	We didn't try to hide this stuff.
	If you can take a look at that at some point and to the folks at home, you'll see not only the machine and every part of it, you'll also see the full articulation of the main crop circle that started it all.
	So we're pretty open about all of this and we welcome the criticism.
	We just really wanted to push the envelope and it became almost an act of protest against the way things are done.
	Okay, so I'm headed to my own website right now.
	I'm going to click on your picture.
	Hopefully that's going to take me somewhere.
	No, it hasn't taken me anywhere yet.
	All right, so I see a crop circle.
	Yeah.
	So I believe what you're looking at is 2009, the Sanctuary.
	And it's called the Sanctuary because it came down next to a very old little stone monument that's in a field known as the Sanctuary.
	So that one had blown nodes.
	Very interesting.
	Very interesting indeed.
	However, what would I have to do now to see the rendering, the final rendering that came from What do you mean for your own?
	If you wanted to do it at home, you would just need simple Autodesk software.
	No, I'm sure you've got it up somewhere, right?
	I do, yes.
	I'm so sorry.
	It's at our website.
	The trailer is, anyway, afieldfullofsecrets.com, and there's a trailer there.
	All right, I'm going to play the trailer right now as we speak.
	I really do want to see this.
	I can't imagine what a decision to... How far do I have to wait, by the way, through this before I get to it?
	I would say it's about a two-and-a-half-minute trailer.
	It'd be the last minute.
	The last minute, okay.
	If you're scrubbing, yeah.
	All right.
	This is quite remarkable, and there is a very rendered high-definition aerial photograph that I'm seeing of that crop circle.
	And here we go.
	Oh, a very good job.
	What a good job of rendering.
	And now you show the craft.
	Yeah, we take it to business and put it back together for you.
	Wow.
	Wow, wow, wow.
	Folks, this is worth watching.
	Go to artbell.com and then jump over to his website.
	This is pretty impressive stuff.
	Honestly, it is.
	So take my word for it, having just watched it, it's worth the watch.
	So, I imagine putting that together alone would have been a pretty big job.
	Yeah, that's why we had to outsource it.
	You see, we were deadly serious, so we bought something known as a Rapid Prototyper.
	This is a 3D printer, and it had a 5-axis lathe on it, and we thought, let's keep things in-house.
	and lower the costs and let's see if we can't build this entirely in-house and we were wrong
	because of the diameter of the secondary disk it was too great for our lathes to cope with and as
	a result then we had to outsource. I think as you know once you start going to aerospace engineers
	your costs skyrocket.
	Yes, of course.
	All right, Joe.
	Hold tight a moment.
	Hold tight.
	Hold tight.
	Trust me on this, folks.
	Do this.
	Go to Artbell.com.
	You'll see my guest picture.
	Click on that.
	And then on down, you'll see his website.
	For heaven's sakes, click on that and watch this short trailer video and you'll see exactly how this happened and the machine that was created from it.
	So it's totally worth it.
	Artbell.com, click on guest picture, then the link.
	This is Midnight.
	I'm going to be playing a little bit of the song, which is called, I'm Gonna Be Your Man.
	I'm gonna be your man.
	Now, here's Art.
	Here I am.
	All right, listen, I'm about to open the phone lines, so here's the way that goes.
	Our public number...
	...is 1-952-225-5278 for Charles Maxwell.
	Area code 952-225-5278.
	Or, if you want to come in on Skype, we can accommodate you.
	North America would be MITD-51.
	Or if you want to come in on Skype, we can accommodate you.
	North America would be MITD51.
	Just go to the little add button, add us as MITD51, and thereafter we'll be on your list
	and you can punch it and call us.
	Now same deal for international calls except it's MITD55.
	MITD55.
	Following this show tonight, RCH is going to have another man working on a drive as well.
	I mean, we're getting all kinds of feedback from all kinds of people on a drive that'll get us the hell off this planet.
	I mean, in a way that really will allow us to navigate space.
	And I mean space beyond our moon, space beyond Mars, space.
	You know, really, out there.
	So, I'm thinking this is really, really, really important stuff.
	We had another gentleman on, you'll recall, not many nights ago, also working on a drive.
	And that one bent a space.
	Not so much time, but space.
	And one of these is going to work.
	I can't tell you which one.
	I can't tell you when.
	I can't tell you if, you know, it's going to be the product of three crop circles in design.
	I can't tell you if one of these physicists is going to stumble into it, and that's it!
	We're going to go from people trapped, basically, on the planet, and or nearby it, to a people that can actually travel to the stars.
	And if you can think of something more important than that, especially with the current condition of the planet, I'm all ears.
	All right, Charles, welcome back.
	Thanks, sir.
	So, Away won a lot of your money.
	Yeah.
	And I guess you were somewhat depressed.
	Yeah.
	And Nassim Haramein brought your spirits up a little bit.
	So is there anywhere else to go?
	I mean, if you really do have plans from elsewhere for a drive that will get us from here to wherever, This is really still extremely, extremely important stuff.
	What do you do with it?
	Yeah, that's a very good question.
	Because you then have the problem of trying to bring it to market.
	And there's all kinds of problems there, not the least of which is the massive oil industry, which I don't think is in a huge hurry to give up trillions of dollars of revenue a year.
	for something that potentially only needs maintenance.
	You see, the idea was not just that our machine, or any of these drives,
	because there's many ways to skin a cat, that not just that this machine
	would be potentially a vehicle, but it could also be an energy generator,
	and with very few moving parts, therefore your biggest cost is fixing it when it breaks,
	but it doesn't require a whole lot of fuel.
	Yeah, well, I guess what I'm saying here is, Let me get rid of that.
	If what you're saying holds any water, and you put $150,000 into it, so I'm thinking you think it really holds water, the design has got to go somewhere else.
	It's got to be examined by others.
	It can't be dropped here.
	You can't just say, damn, $150,000 gone.
	damn a hundred and fifty thousand dollars gone if there has to be more
	uh... i agree and i think that's what the film is about is to
	put this is so that we have hit a dead end here We've gone as far as we could take it, but we do want other people to look at what we've done, to look at other things as well, and say, oh, clearly they were wrong.
	They just needed to do this.
	We're looking for that.
	We want to inspire people to pick up the mantle and run with it and really succeed where we
	failed.
	We feel like we're one of these light bulbs, but one of them is going to go up.
	In fact, you mentioned these drives that are out there.
	There's some really interesting work that's so simple yet genius related to the universe
	and what it's actually doing, which is the work of David LaPointe.
	Again, what we're just looking at is two interacting electromagnetic, or rather one field that's
	Electromagnetic field in a toroidal kind of shape.
	And this is really exciting because it does confirm kind of what we're on to and what Nassim is trying to do.
	And it's very elegant and it's simple to understand.
	You don't need to know how to dismantle a quadratic equation or to even understand relativity to understand that the universe is electric.
	All right, let's take a few calls and see what comes.
	Benson, I believe it is, on Skype.
	Hello.
	No, Benson is not there.
	I said, you're on the air.
	He wasn't.
	Let's go to Winter Haven, Florida, I believe.
	Hello.
	Hey, this is Tom from Florida.
	I'm sorry, Tom Sawyer?
	No, this is Tom from Florida.
	Sorry.
	Tom from Florida.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, I think the government already is aware of the technology of this.
	I think that's why they're keeping all the secret.
	It would be stupid for them to reveal it to us, in their opinion, because it would take all these oil companies and all their funds away.
	But I do have a question for you, Charles, if I may ask.
	I heard a long time ago that these pop circles, somebody discovered that they actually formed musical notes?
	Oh yeah, that's very good, Tom.
	OK, I think you're referring to the work of Paul Wiege, the late researcher.
	And Paul was a mathematician, and what he discovered, and this was also reflected by the, oh no, I'm going to get this wrong, I think it's the London Psychical Society, Psychic Research Society, but they noticed that yes, in fact, some of these crop circles, mathematically at least, Really?
	Really?
	to suggest certain notes and then Vigay actually went and made a tune out of various circles.
	It's hard to say where that would lead because he did die rather suddenly. The official report is
	he committed suicide. Really? In England. Really? By the way, his family disputes that.
	His family disputes that, Tom.
	But that's, yeah, you're absolutely right.
	It seems to be sometimes that we have to look at the geometry and say, what is it representative of?
	And so that's one instance.
	I wish I could answer your question completely, but that's the reason that we couldn't afford to lose Paul, really.
	Yeah, I always found that very fascinating because I think music would be definitely One universal way to communicate.
	Well, music is sort of math, right?
	Yeah, it's about periods, and so it's, yes, you can have, and in fact, there is, I've mentioned this man before, John Martineau, wrote a book called The Little Book of Coincidences, Tom, that you might find very interesting, about the Well, things like the fact that, you know, Venus is described in the sky as an almost complete pentagon every eight years.
	And you get these really lovely, stunningly beautiful geometries when you describe the relationship of the orbits of Mars to Earth and Mercury to Mars.
	And he's done all these in this book by Wooden Press, A Little Book of Coincidences.
	So you can see those periods and those orbitals, and they're amazing.
	You know, again, it looks like just really impressive, cohesive geometry.
	Well, thank you, Charles.
	And thank you, Art.
	I hope your daughter's feeling a lot better.
	She is, actually.
	Thank you very much.
	And so far, cross fingers, I have not caught it.
	Somebody asks, why always in wheat fields?
	And that's a pretty interesting question.
	In other words, why not on grass?
	Why not?
	In the snow, why not?
	And I think the answer to that would be, I hate to answer it myself, but if you do it in a wheat field, it's a lot more durable, isn't it?
	In other words, if you do it in ice or something and it rains, it's gone.
	If you want it to be seen, if you are from elsewhere and you want us to notice this, then how could you do better than a wheat field?
	What do you think, Charles?
	I have to be honest.
	They have come down in ice.
	We get ice circles.
	I know it has happened, but it's usually wheat fields, right?
	It is usually wheat.
	And not to bore the audience, but the reason I think, again, goes back to the fertility science.
	If you look at a stalk of wheat on its own, it's almost like a freestanding capacitor.
	And in fact, the way that the head of wheat is designed, it's like an antenna.
	I think that this has a lot to do with this Telerik tide at sunrise.
	It may.
	All right, we've got a break here, so we will be back.
	Be glad to take your calls.
	It's fascinating stuff.
	Eventually, one of these is going to turn out to be a real drive.
	Who knows?
	Maybe it's this one.
	Nothing's wrong with what I'm doing.
	Guess what now?
	Who's gonna drive you home?
	Want to take a ride from the high desert and the Great American Southwest?
	This is Midnight in the Desert, exclusively on the Dark Matter Digital Network.
	To call the show, dial 1-952-CALL-ART.
	That's 1-952-225-5278.
	Or by Skype, that is the MIT D51, or outside North America, MIT D55.
	Skype, let it be MIT D51 or outside North America MIT D55, listen, I would not send
	you on a goose chase. This is well worth your seeing.
	What you need to do is go to rbil.com, my page.
	You'll see a picture of Charles Maxwell, my guest.
	At that point, click on it, and then find the link to his page.
	When you get to his page, do watch this trailer.
	It includes the crop circle, and then The 3D rendering of the crop circle, and then even a picture of the craft that was created.
	I mean, it's quite remarkable and well worth seeing.
	Guy went out and spent $150,000 of his own money.
	My goodness.
	Incredible stuff.
	Absolutely incredible.
	Okay, Charles, welcome back.
	Is there anything, before we go back to the Jones, important in your story that I have missed?
	Um, goodness me, I think that as long as, you know, we get across the point that we are coming from observational science here, that we're not just, you know, we're not channeling the Pleiadians or anything.
	We really are.
	I know.
	You know what I mean?
	We're trying to work with observational data and our model is the electrical universe.
	So we contend that there's actually a lot of electricity out there and a lot of plasma And this is David Talbot's wonderful work that kind of
	turned me on to this.
	But this idea that curvature, space-time, the Einsteinian relativistic model, it's got
	all kinds of problems.
	And when you really look at who's making the advances, who makes the major inventions,
	the Marconis, the Teslas, the Edisons, these are electrical engineers working in the real
	world with electricity.
	Oh, yes.
	They're not theoretical physicists.
	For the record, I don't interview people who channel at all.
	I didn't think you did, sir.
	No, I don't.
	Kelsey on Skype, hello.
	Hello?
	Hello.
	Hey, how's it going?
	You're on the air?
	Hey, how are you guys doing?
	Fine.
	Good.
	This is actually Cody, I think.
	Well, Kelsey's what's written.
	Yeah, that's the Skype.
	Okay, get good and close to your mic or you're going to cut out on us.
	Can you hear me better?
	I was curious to know if Charles was familiar with the work of Lawrence Krauss.
	Lawrence Krauss.
	Remind me, is this the physicist?
	Yeah, he's a theoretical physicist.
	Yeah, yeah, not entirely.
	I mean, I saw his film.
	He did a film with Dawkins, did he not?
	I suspect so, I'm not sure.
	Okay, Conor, are you on your speakerphone?
	No.
	Pardon me?
	I don't think so.
	Well, you're cutting out like crazy.
	I'll try.
	I'm walking around.
	I'll try to stay in one spot.
	I was curious to know why, because my theory of circles is that I think that they're being created through... Okay, well, I'm sorry.
	We're not going to be... You're going to have to...
	Come up with a better way to do this, because I cannot make out what you're saying.
	That's life, I guess.
	All right, let's go to the phones, and whoever comes up next, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Yeah, hi, Art.
	Hi, Charles.
	It's Scott in San Diego.
	Hi, Scott.
	I have a question for Charles about crop circles.
	And something he said earlier made me think of this.
	I wonder if crop circles are meant to help us.
	In these times of global climate change and with the recent incursion of genetically modified foods, he said something about reports of protein increases in the affected grains in the circles.
	So given that, that kind of makes sense.
	Yeah, that's a great point, mate.
	Let me direct you to The Real Silence again.
	There's a peer-reviewed article by the late W.C.
	Levengood in a journal called Physiologia Planterum, which is a Dutch publication.
	This is issue 92.
	The article is called Anatomical Anomalies in Crop Formation Plants.
	And it goes into these protein discoveries, the yield.
	But it's very simple.
	All that Mr. Levengood did was that he took controls from outside the circle and he grew them, he germinated the seeds, and then he went to what's called the shadow of a former circle, where we knew there'd been a really interesting crop circle the year before.
	And he did that again with that.
	And this was done statistically, so they did it with tens of thousands of plant samples.
	This was not random, it was very scientific.
	And that's what they found.
	They found that they actually, they're stronger, healthier, they have 20 to 30% more protein.
	And you can see this in the side-by-side comparisons that Levengood provided, which are in our
	film as well, actually.
	So you can literally see that the crop circle affected plants, they're just taller and healthier
	and more vital.
	So that's what we found.
	Okay.
	I'll check that out.
	Thanks.
	It is amazing.
	Thank you.
	Thank you very much.
	Going to Skype for Wayne.
	Hi there.
	Hi.
	Earlier on, your guest made a reference to the Chilbolton radio telescope crop circle, and I've always been really fascinated by that one, particularly the response where they show, it looks like, Bizarre radio antenna, kind of like a fractal antenna.
	I know exactly what you're talking about, yes.
	Is that a real crop circle, or is that...?
	Okay, I'm going to be brutally honest with you now.
	First of all, I didn't mention Gibraltar earlier, but I should have, so thank you.
	The antenna array, I have no idea, and the reason I don't is because I'm only willing to comment on circles I was in physically that I studied or that we got fantastically reliable data about blown nodes.
	And if that's the case, there has to be a lot of photographic evidence.
	I like to talk to people that have been in this circle.
	This is just kind of doing primary context research.
	Do you know what I mean?
	Right.
	Going to Chibolton, the antenna, I really don't know.
	I can tell you that the disc, the ASCII disc in the face, as much as people have fallen in love with that thing, is fake.
	It came down over three days.
	And I know this because Andrew Smuller went down there to Gibraltar and talked to a farm manager.
	And he said, clear as day, it was a three-day formation.
	So, the ASCII disc that everyone goes nuts about with the alien, the typical grey holding that disc is undoubtedly fake.
	Thank you.
	You're very welcome.
	Thank you for caring to call.
	We appreciate it.
	And let's go here to the phone.
	You're next, whoever you are.
	Yeah, hi, this is Ronald calling from Malibu, California.
	Hey there.
	Hi, thanks for taking my call, Charles.
	I have a couple, just two quick questions.
	Wait, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute.
	Ronald, you're the Ronald who was packing up with his wife to go running away.
	Yeah, in fact, we finished packing up today.
	When do you leave?
	Um, we are actually leaving Wednesday.
	Wednesday?
	Yeah, Wednesday.
	We're going Wednesday and then we're coming, we're going to stay until the 28th.
	All right.
	Sorry.
	Go ahead for the guest.
	Okay.
	Um, my first question is, have you thought about putting up like a closed circuit TV surveillance cameras near the crop circle site so that you can actually capture footage of the crop circles being made?
	Which I think would lend a lot of credibility to it, I think, and attract some real scientists.
	And then my second question is, and I've used this to crowdfund Okay, those are both good questions.
	like Indiegogo or Kickstarter or GoFundMe to gather not only funds to continue with
	your project, but also gather possibly some real technicians who can come in there and
	make your saucer and drive work for you.
	Okay, those are both good questions.
	Let's go to the camera one first.
	Right, the camera one's great.
	Thank you for mentioning that.
	There's a very good reason why we didn't set up hidden cameras.
	One, it's expensive, and we couldn't budget for that.
	Two, and this goes to the kind of political side of crop circles, there are hoaxes everywhere.
	If they even suspect that you have a camera in the field, the first thing they're going to do is nick it.
	Actually, the first thing they're going to do is try and trick you.
	The second thing they're going to do is steal your camera.
	So that has been considered.
	In fact, my director of photography said, why haven't we done that?
	He was very cavalier about catching hoaxes and really went the extra mile.
	It's just not financially feasible for us five, six years ago.
	It might be now, I think.
	You could put GoPros, camouflage them and hide them.
	That's what I was going to say.
	Why not get a drone?
	Wait until something's in the middle of a formation, fly that sucker up and take a look-see with night vision.
	Yeah, night vision's a great way to do it.
	I think that you've just hit on the way to really get to the bottom of this.
	There's another way.
	I mentioned earlier weather satellites, and Art corrected me about the Klystron array, but weather satellites in Britain scan every field in the nation every 15 minutes.
	This is our food source, so of course we want to protect it.
	So I've always said, why can't we simply see the weather data?
	Because, you know, 15 minutes is not enough to make a large circle.
	We would definitely catch them in the act if we could have access to those weather satellites.
	All right, here's the next question concerned continued funding for your project.
	Crowdfunding, GoFundMe, something.
	Yeah, that's, again, a very good idea.
	What I've decided, and I didn't arrive at this easily, is that we have some significant flaws in our design.
	If I were to continue funding, I would hit the same problems.
	And those problems we've discussed a little bit.
	Stuff like mounting, the fact that I could never get that disc to rotate anywhere close to the speed it needed to, to bend that plasma with an EM field.
	So what I would prefer to do, mate, is to find a more viable version, like Nassim's, and invest there.
	And I think that we need to be smart and discerning about how we Which technologies we endorsed, you know what I mean?
	Yes, I do.
	And in your case, you don't want to use GoFundMe, you want to use Please Pay Me Back.
	Please Pay Me Back, yes, because I'm still in the red.
	Yes.
	All right.
	On the phone, you're on the air with Charles Maxwell.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Yes, hello.
	Yeah, this is Donnie from Del Mar, Maryland, Roswell, CUR.
	Thank you.
	Hi, Donnie.
	I have a couple of questions.
	Um, can I pick you up on shortwave radio?
	Yes.
	What channels?
	5085.
	Five dot zero eight five.
	Okay.
	Um, yeah.
	And uh, my second question is, Ken, we sent a message into space with our DNA coding, and right below it was a shape of a human, and then I guess, I'm not sure, years later, if we received the message back, and it had a different DNA coding and an alien right below it in a crop circle.
	In the crop circle, okay.
	What about that?
	Well, you're referring to, let me see, that's the data strip response is what you're referring to, where actually the little grey fella was supposed to be silicon-based.
	That's right, yes.
	Yeah, that was really interesting.
	Unfortunately, because it was in the, that's a Chabotan formation as well, or that part of the world.
	So, I'm afraid to say, I don't have a lot of data on that one.
	It did come down, I think, About 10 years ago.
	And so rather than put my foot in it, I'm just going to, I don't have enough kind of empirical data about what the lay of that crop circle was.
	But off the top of my head, based on the ASCII disk, I have serious questions as to the legitimacy of that circle, I'm afraid.
	All right.
	All right.
	You're on the air with Charles Matchwell.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	Go ahead, sir.
	My favorite guest of yours in 2000 or so was a guy named Michael Schumann, Dr. Michael Schumann, named from Skeptics Magazine.
	Yes, try to believe it. You're on air, so go ahead.
	I do. My favorite guest of yours from 2000 or so was a guy named Michael Schumann, Dr. Michael Schumann,
	a man from Skeptics magazine.
	Yes.
	And I'm not a total skeptic, but I kind of look at things in a roundabout way.
	Now, quop circles, I've heard many people speak of them.
	Most everyone has approached them from the idea of debunking them.
	And then, they mostly find out they can debunk about 93% of them, except the other 7% as being real.
	And I would kind of think, from my skepticism, Maybe there's 7% of people who can fool that person.
	In your case, I would say there is a good possibility that observing crop circles triggered something in your mind that answered some questions in your mind.
	And that you came to these worthwhile conclusions and built something, which may be the right thing, may not, but I've seen elephants in the clouds, so to speak.
	You know, your imagination can be stimulated and you can confirm... So, are you suggesting that he just, you know, his imagination went wild with what he saw?
	No, not that his imagination went wild.
	his imagination put together.
	And maybe those crop circles are from aliens.
	I keep an open mind about it.
	It's just that most of the people who look into them say that same thing.
	Oh, I can debunk 93% of them and the other 3% are real.
	Or maybe the other 3% are just by some very clever Englishman who had too much time on their hands and too many points at
	best.
	Yeah, well, it could be.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Well, you struck on a very good point, my friend, and I'm not going to just let it go.
	I think what you're saying to some extent is, and I've noticed this, I'm not going to dispute it, is that crop circles can be something like a Rorschach test.
	So there is the possibility that you bring your own kind of decoding, as it were, that you see what you want to see.
	Um, and you could certainly levy that argument against me and say, well, he was looking for technology and he found it.
	Um, I think it actually, that's a very legit question.
	I don't really know how to answer except that we tried very hard by using scientific method to kind of divorce ourselves from that possibility.
	Well, to spend 150 grand of your own money, you must've thought pretty hard about it before you took the bite of the apple.
	Absolutely, of course, yeah.
	And the other thing, you know, is that we have to decide, and this is another point that your question raised, is who's actually making them?
	Who is actually behind the real ones?
	Are we assuming that it's aliens?
	Because I think that's a false assumption.
	We just have to assume they're real because, and this is the distinction, there's ones that are boarded where it's the weight of a human being has crushed and killed those plants.
	They're never coming back up again.
	They're not going to be 30% stronger the next year.
	Do you know what I mean?
	Yes.
	And yet we have these real ones.
	So we have to decide first.
	Is this, like Art says, is this a military satellite?
	Is it aliens?
	Is it the planet itself?
	There's some real mind scratchers, you know, benders that you have to come to terms with.
	And it's clearly, it could be us.
	We could be doing this to ourselves.
	It could be a joke.
	You know, it could be some kind of projection technology that doesn't require boards, but doesn't require aliens either.
	Well, you must have thought about all this before spending all that money.
	Now, you've got a video.
	Is that for sale?
	You're selling the video or just available?
	The film, you mean?
	Filled Full of Secrets?
	Yes, yes.
	Actually, it's available on Netflix right now.
	It's also on iTunes, Amazon Instant, Hulu, Vudu, on various of those pay systems.
	And I think that's the easiest way to find it if you do want to give it a try and see what we got up to.
	All right.
	Well, I hope they do.
	I think that we pretty well wound through your story, Charles.
	So I'm going to thank you, tell you that it was a wonderful night.
	I wish you all the luck in the world.
	One of these is going to work out, buddy.
	One of these days, somebody is going to come up with it.
	And if they don't, we're stuck on this planet.
	Thank you very much.
	It's been a pleasure.
	Charles Maxwell, thank you.
	So what we will do is take a break.
	And when we come back, we'll do open lines.
	Absolute open lines.
	I'm not even going to suggest a topic.
	I'm just going to take one hour of solid open lines on the phone or from Skype.
	Either way.
	So if you've got anything you want to say, The next hour ahead is the place to say it.
	From the high desert, this is Midnight in the Desert.
	I'm going to be doing something a little different.
	Has to do that.
	The night in the desert spans the world.
	To call us from outside the US and Canada only, use Skype with a headset mic if on a
	computer and call MITD55.
	That's MITD55.
	One time a night, right?
	Has to do that.
	Ha, ha, ha.
	Randomly.
	Oh boy.
	All right.
	As I mentioned, open lines, no parameters.
	I'm not even going to suggest a special line.
	I'm just going to say open lines.
	Come get it.
	Whatever you want to talk about.
	Fair game.
	So here we go.
	We'll start with Billy on Skype.
	Hello, Billy.
	Hello, Billy.
	Yes, I can sound like you're in a cave, Billy.
	Hello, Billy.
	Billy is gone.
	What a shame.
	Okay, let's go to the phone and say hello.
	You're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Yeah, you can hear me.
	Yeah, I can hear you.
	Arbel, you are great.
	No, just me.
	Yeah, well, you know, I just wanted to give a shout out to everybody under the hashtag of DM Talk.
	This is Just Alt, and if anybody searches through the tweets, they'll know what I'm talking about.
	But I just wanted to say that that guy was blowing smoke.
	It's a sad situation that he's living in northern Malibu and he's cut short of $150,000.
	I don't know what... Oh, now you're talking about Ronald.
	Yeah.
	I really don't know what you can spend $150,000 on.
	No, no, no, no.
	Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
	You're confusing guests here.
	You're talking about Charles now, Maxwell, not Ronald, right?
	Oh, I'm sorry.
	Yeah, Charles Maxwell.
	Yes.
	So, I really don't understand what you can do to literally dump $150,000.
	It's not that hard.
	That's a lot of money.
	I know it is a lot of money, but it's not that hard.
	If you start building something like he was talking about, trust me, in the blink of an eye, you can go through $150,000.
	I mean, I'll just speak on behalf of the majority, and the whole thing is that it just seems like it's a circle, and the only crop circle that's been created is the one that he's created, and he's probably running around in it.
	Because, I mean, it's just... Come on, R. I mean, there's, you know, real stuff out there, but this guy's blowing smoke.
	I just... I can't... Maybe.
	I mean, he blew 150 grand of his own smoke But can we prove that?
	Can we prove that?
	Oh yeah, I think you can.
	I'm sure he's got receipts.
	No, sure.
	God bless you, Art.
	Take care.
	Can I prove he... No, you'd have to drag out receipts.
	I don't doubt him.
	I believe him.
	Chelsea, I think it is, on Skype.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	I wanted to... Oh, I'm getting an echo.
	Sorry.
	Depends how you set up Skype, Chelsea.
	Yeah.
	Anyway, I hear you fine, so what's up?
	Okay.
	So, I had this great argument for the Atheist the other night, but didn't get a chance to bring it up.
	That's true.
	And I tried.
	Good Lord, I tried.
	I had several on who said, Yes, I can get him!
	Just put me on with him!
	And, you know, I know God's not dead, but I mean some of his former worshipers are down on the job.
	Well, my argument was near-death experiences.
	It's a good one.
	So you have Dr. Raymond Moody wrote Life After Life, and he did extensive studies interviewing dozens, I don't know how many people, but quite a number of people that And they all had very similar stories about seeing a being of light, of loving white light, and some of them called it Jesus, some of them called it God.
	Some of them didn't say it was God, but there was definitely a presence there, and the thing that was really, really convinced me was that After they had very vivid experiences, even though their brains were shut off and our hearts weren't beating, they described it as more real than this existence.
	Chelsea, did you watch a recent program called Proof?
	No, I didn't.
	Well, I recommend you go back and watch it.
	It's about a doctor seeking answers and doing And as I was watching that show, you know, I commented to my wife, you know, that at my age, I would be willing to give it a try.
	I would, given the opportunity, assuming that I was healthy, giant leap, I would be willing to try a flat line myself to try and find out.
	At my age, not a great risk, right?
	Or, oh, he's a great risk.
	Nevertheless, I would be willing to try it, and that is what she did in that program.
	And I was constantly complaining about the program until the final episode, where what would be considered proof was actually reached.
	Because prior to that, there was always the hint or the taunt of possible proof, and never any real proof.
	Anyway, interesting stuff.
	We are going to examine on this program NDEs in great detail.
	We're going to try to get as close as we can get to the truth without actually flatlining.
	Unless I got the right equipment, good doctor, and so forth and so on.
	Let's go to the phone.
	You're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi, this is Colorado Springs.
	I just wanted to wish a happy Rosh Hashanah to all my Jewish friends.
	And I wanted to ask if maybe we could get some updates from Ronald while he goes underground.
	You mean that he would call in as he's underground waiting for the big one?
	Yeah, letting us know what's happening from, I guess you would call it the underside or whatever, and when he decides to come back out, or if not, if he decides to stay.
	Well, I guess when he comes out, he could say, um, well, it didn't happen.
	I'm glad now I'm going home.
	Well, I guess, but I, I, I obviously am a skeptic about it, but I think I am.
	I'm kind of fascinated at the mindset of someone that would go to that length and is so convinced that it's going to happen.
	I do agree.
	I really do agree that somebody would be so convinced of something that just sort of grew and germinated on the internet that they would flee where they live.
	I know.
	It's remarkable.
	And I'd kind of like to follow that mindset as it progresses throughout the next week.
	And who knows if he's right?
	We may never know.
	But if he's wrong, I'd kind of like to follow that progress and what Well, we'll see what he has to say, that's for sure.
	Alright, thank you very much.
	When you call, folks, people are requesting video.
	Don't do that.
	We don't accept video.
	We don't want to see you.
	We don't want you to see us.
	This is radio.
	We are an audio medium, so by all means, please do not try to bring up video when you call.
	On top of that, it kind of interrupts the bandwidth.
	Steve, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Oh, hi, Art.
	Hi.
	The gentleman earlier that called and asked about Shortwave.
	Yes.
	It brought up a question I wanted to ask you when you had open lines.
	Sure.
	You remember a few years back on Shortwave there was a series of numbers?
	They're called numbers stations, yes.
	What were those?
	Did they ever find out?
	Oh no.
	Ways to communicate with agents in the field, you know, like CIA agents and other nations' agents.
	Those numbers stations are there, and all you hear is a girl going, 37, 64, 17.
	Right, I remember hearing those.
	Yes.
	So that's a way of communicating a cipher code.
	So it wasn't a mystery after all.
	I always heard it was a mystery.
	Nobody knew what it was.
	Well, that is the healthiest theory, Steve, of what they are.
	I see.
	OK, I have one more question.
	Sure.
	What's your theory on orbs?
	I saw one once and I have no idea what it was.
	And I wondered if you had any ideas what you might think it is.
	You saw an orb with your eye or something that was rendered on the camera?
	Okay, I was outside and I saw it passing across the street and it rested on the roof of the garage across the street from me and just sat there and it was like it was Observing me like I was observing it.
	That's really weird.
	I don't, I'm sorry Steve, I don't have, yeah, I don't have a theory for you.
	The ones they catch on camera are pretty much baloney in my opinion.
	But seeing one with your bare eyes beats me.
	And the strangest thing of it is, it was like 20 years, this happened like four years ago I think, but a fella that I became friends with where I worked about 20 years prior to
	this was telling me that he was going home one day and this was like in the
	middle of the afternoon and he was describing what I saw an orb and I didn't know
	whether he was making it up or what cause I didn't know him that well at the time
	and until I saw one and I'm going through my mind when I saw it, I'm going
	through, I'm thinking different things on what it could be.
	And then all of a sudden it dawned on me, this is what it is.
	And the light that it gave out was unlike any kind of light I've ever observed.
	It didn't like when it was passing behind trees, it didn't light up any, the trees should have been lit up.
	The leaves, they at the surface of the garage roof should have had some
	kind of light.
	I'm going to make a guess, Steve, that what you saw was a plasma ball.
	And that's all it is, is a guess.
	But light that would exist, perpetuate itself like that, sounds to me like a plasma ball.
	And they do have them.
	Scientists don't fully understand them.
	It's another one of those things that's just plain weird.
	But we know they do exist, and they move in ways that make no sense, and they pop in and out of existence, sometimes associated with thunderstorms, sometimes not.
	So I wish I could tell you more, but that's kind of what I know.
	El Paso, Texas.
	Hello.
	Hello, Art.
	How are you doing tonight?
	Just great.
	Thank you.
	I've been listening to you since I was about 13 or 14 years old.
	Thank you for that.
	And I am so glad that I finally got to speak with you.
	I'm so excited.
	And I just wanted to share a quick story, if I could, with your audience.
	Okay.
	This happened when I was in middle school.
	There's a pauper cemetery behind the middle school.
	Yes.
	Me and a friend of mine, we were walking back there.
	We were walking on the graves, actually.
	And my leg, it sank into one of the graves.
	Very bad.
	It was pretty scary, yeah.
	My friend didn't help me out or nothing, he just laughed at me.
	And, um, yeah, that's pretty much it I wanted to share with you.
	I'm sorry?
	Oh, that was it, huh?
	Yeah, I mean... I mean, you yanked your leg out with bones hanging on it or something?
	No, no, it was just a very scary experience.
	Oh, you're really, really, really excited to get through, huh?
	I am, can you tell?
	Yeah, I can.
	Alright, thank you.
	Awesome.
	Thank you, Art.
	Good night.
	Have a good night.
	Open line, folks.
	Anything you want to talk about.
	Not even a suggestion from me.
	You name it, we'll talk about it.
	Midnight in the Desert.
	I'm Art Bell, rocking in the nighttime.
	Tonight, tonight we're gonna make it happen.
	Anything you want to talk about is fair game.
	Anything at all.
	Let's go overseas.
	Hello there, somewhere.
	Peter.
	G'day, Aunt.
	Can you hear me well?
	Today, I do indeed.
	Oh, great.
	We're in open lines. Anything you want to talk about is fair game. Anything at all.
	Let's go overseas. Hello there somewhere. Peter.
	G'day, Art. Can you hear me well?
	G'day. I do indeed.
	Oh, great. I've got a story about possibly alternate timelines that happened to me about seven years ago.
	I was in the car with my children and I was going to the heated pool and I asked my children to put their valuables in the glove compartment and which they did and then we went to the pool.
	We were traveling home and we got home and I decided I would go inside and I didn't I forgot to remind my children to get their stuff out of the glove compartment.
	A day went by, I still hadn't reminded my son to get his watch from the glove compartment.
	And then the next day go by, I'd forget again.
	For about three days, I forgot.
	And then on the third day, third or fourth day, we were going to go to the pool again and we got into the car.
	And I said to my son, oh, Kyle, I forgot to tell you to get your watch from the glove compartment.
	And there was dead silence from the back of the car.
	And I couldn't work out what was going on, why there was such silence, because he normally would respond straight away.
	And I turned around and he was white in the face.
	And he said to me, that's funny, Dad, because I've been wearing my watch all day.
	And I've been showing my friend at school.
	And at that point I reached over to the glove box and I took the watch out of the glove compartment and I gave it to him.
	And we can't really work out what happened.
	Are you telling me that was an identical watch?
	It was an identical watch.
	At the time I decided I'd get the kids while their memories were fresh.
	And we would write down exactly what happened.
	And so that we wouldn't get the mistakes mixed up later on.
	And so anyway, he said he couldn't really remember where he got his watch from.
	And he thought he might have got it from my room.
	And I did have a watch that was on the floor of my room, but it wasn't the same watch and it wasn't working.
	And that watch was still there anyway.
	So, and he still remembers it.
	He's not here at the moment, but he still remembers it.
	And, you know, like I said, it's been about seven years since that happened.
	And the only thing and the only thing I can think of that that would explain it would be is if that he somehow, somehow we moved into a different timeline.
	And I remember the old timeline and the old timeline came back.
	That is absolutely weird, Peter.
	And both watches remained in this timeline?
	There was only one watch that was in this timeline.
	Wait, wait, wait.
	We were in the car when you opened the glove box, picked out the watch, and he was wearing it at the same time?
	No, no.
	It wasn't on his wrist anymore.
	Sorry, I didn't include that part.
	No, no, that's a very important part, Peter.
	Very important part.
	I'm sorry.
	Yeah, it's hard.
	I'm a little nervous because I've never rung anybody.
	Where are you, by the way?
	In Australia?
	Well, yes.
	You want to be specific?
	Sure, why not?
	All right, Bendigo.
	Okay, well, see, I don't even know where that is.
	It's a place north of Melbourne.
	It's about 150 km north.
	All right, that was a very important part of the story.
	Oh my goodness, what a story.
	Good one, too.
	Yeah.
	All right, buddy.
	Thank you very, very much.
	He left out the part that suddenly made you go, oops.
	My goodness.
	Chris, somewhere or another, hello.
	Hello, Art.
	Hi.
	This is Chris in Virginia.
	I'm getting a little bit of echo here.
	Okay.
	So I actually called in on Friday to debate with Matt, and I had something weird happen.
	I went outside because I have roommates and they're all sleeping.
	They have class in the morning.
	You were fully prepared to debate my atheist.
	Yes, I was, or at least on certain points.
	I had something I wanted to correct him on.
	Yes.
	But while I was out there, I was, you know, I was out there for about 30 minutes and I was looking at the stars and I saw what looked like three stars that were moving across the sky.
	Yeah.
	They would get closer to each other and further apart from each other.
	They were about an inch or so, in visual terms, away from each other.
	And they would switch positions.
	Not like it was a single object rotating.
	Stars don't do that.
	Yeah.
	So we live, or I live, I guess, near the second largest shipyard in the U.S.
	and near an airbase and an airport.
	And I'm familiar with jets.
	The F-22 flies over my house all the time, and it's quite disruptive.
	But there was no sound or anything.
	And, I mean, it was... I've never seen anything like it.
	I don't know if it was some type of test aircraft or what, but it was flying westward, and it went across the whole sky in about 12 seconds.
	I know of no aircraft that would display anything like that.
	Yeah, me either.
	But I did want to correct Matt on something, because I actually used to believe it myself.
	What was that?
	I'm a student of comparative religion at Christopher Newport University, and he made a comment about Horace and Mithra and Jesus, and how these were all basically the same figure.
	And I actually, for a while, believed that myself, but upon doing a little bit more investigation, I found out that's not really true.
	That Mithras, for instance, was born of a rock and not of a virgin.
	And he sacrificed a bull to eat a dinner with the sun god, which is about the closest parallel you could draw.
	And Horus was never baptized, nor was he killed.
	Osiris, his father, was.
	But he himself was not.
	And these claims, I found out when I was actually doing a research paper on it last year, originate from a guy called Gerald Massey, who was a 19th century... well, he was involved with Madame Blavatsky.
	Well, what do you say to an atheist?
	I mean, he just doesn't believe.
	Period.
	From what I heard from him, it's sort of a contention that I have with a lot of atheists.
	I obviously can't force someone to believe anything.
	No.
	But... I mean, there is torture.
	You can torture them until they believe.
	Well, I try to stay away from that, at least with people I don't know very well.
	But he did not sound like a particularly scientifically minded person, even though I do believe that he studies Uh, at least reads about science.
	I find it hard to believe that he himself actually participates in any scientific experiments.
	Well, that's one of the issues that I have with a lot of, uh, well, I guess popular atheists is, uh, that they will rely on scientific theories But they themselves do very little exploration in those matters.
	So, in the end, they are still relying on other people to get their information.
	So, for someone to... Well, I mean, a lot of us rely on others for information, right?
	Oh, well, we have to.
	But, ultimately, that is a degree of fiction.
	Even the Bible.
	Exactly.
	That's just relying on others.
	Or any religious text.
	I mean, you know.
	And the thing is that If you're going to rely on another human for information, I think, especially when you yourself have never examined any of these things, it's a little hypocritical to me to call someone out on their faith, whatever it may be.
	Well, I think, thank you, I think an atheist is interesting, because it's just, you don't believe anything.
	You don't believe any of it.
	It's just all fairy tales.
	So, it would have, if we had ever come up with a good debater, it would have been very interesting.
	But, you know, I tried.
	I tried really hard.
	You're on the air, on the phone.
	Hi.
	Hi, Art.
	Thanks for taking my call, and I just want to give a quick shout-out to the Facebook group.
	I'm just curious if you're familiar with simulation theory.
	I know I mentioned it a different day that I called.
	I'm sorry, which theory?
	Simulation theory.
	Essentially, it posits that we live in what we would consider a computer simulation.
	Oh, the Matrix!
	Sort of.
	It's a little bit different, but a similar idea.
	Same idea.
	Yeah, what's really interesting is that there's more and more, I would hesitate to call it evidence, but some science that suggests spooky things.
	For example, You know, there are quasars, which are these large galaxies which have supermassive black holes in the middle of them.
	And they're all aligned in certain filaments in the universe that's non-random.
	And there are different other things like Planck length and quantum superpositioning, which kind of, it's reminiscent for if you're playing a video game.
	You can see that walls will render when you look at them.
	But when you're not looking at them, the walls aren't really part of the game because it would use up too much power.
	It's a similar idea to how you can see electrons that will exist in every sort of possibility until you look directly at them when they're in one place.
	Imagine how horrible it would be if you sat down in front of your computer, moved your mouse, and your wife suddenly shifted rooms.
	I think that would be incredible because then I would never have to move.
	Uh, that's the direction we're headed anyway, aren't we?
	A little bit, but what I think is really interesting is what you do if this is true, what the solution is to this.
	And I think the solution is what someone has said.
	Reboot!
	To make your own simulation.
	Yes, sir.
	Let me say it again.
	Reboot.
	Reboot.
	Hold on.
	Hold on.
	Hold on. We'll be back this midnight.
	Remember, when calling Midnight in the Desert, let the phone ring until answered.
	These calls are unscreened for your listening pleasure.
	Call 1-952-CALL-ART.
	That's 1-952-225-5278.
	And that applies, by the way, to Skype as well.
	If you don't get through and, you know, it'll only ring so long, just try again.
	Don't give up.
	Persistence will pay off.
	And I was thinking what about this caller and what he said.
	How cool would that be if, or uncool, if one day you went to your computer, you just jogged the mouse a little bit, and your wife went across the room for your child.
	Or something in your environment went whoosh.
	How weird would that be?
	Anyway, you're back on the air, sir.
	Thanks, sir.
	You play the best music in between, I gotta say.
	Thank you.
	But what I think is really interesting is if we are a simulation, how do we respond to it?
	What do we do if we want to survive?
	What does surviving even mean?
	And what some people think is the right answer, which I think is pretty elegant, is we should be in a race to make our own simulation and to make it as accurate as we can to some type of universe.
	Because assuming that we're being watched, right?
	Oh yes.
	Someone who's watching us will look And see that we've made a simulation, and then they're going to wonder if there's a simulation, so that'll stop them from pulling the plug on us.
	And it becomes twiddles all the way down.
	And it's interesting, because where does it end?
	Where's the top?
	And I think that's a very fun question to think about, and I think it's a very freeing idea, and it makes technology seem all the more interesting to me.
	It does.
	Alright, thank you so very much for the call, and I'm going to ponder that for some time, actually.
	A number of people have posited this theory that we may be living in a simulation and for all we know we are, right?
	What do we know?
	Again, if I were doing a new Twilight Zone, that's where I'd be going.
	Just jog that mouse a little bit.
	Nicola on Skype, you're on the air.
	Hi, Alex.
	This is Nicola.
	The Nicola that Charles was referring to, actually.
	Really?
	Yes.
	Well, excellent.
	I'm glad you decided to call the show.
	I'm glad you made it in.
	He's not still here, but as you heard, he mentioned you any number of times.
	I tried to send you a couple of pictures as well.
	I don't know if you got them, but they might be useful for the discussion, if necessary.
	When did you send them?
	Um, I already did, uh... You mean during the show?
	Nicola?
	During the show?
	Yes, it was.
	Yeah, see, I can't check my email when I'm doing the program.
	Uh, so I'll get them after the program.
	Okay.
	Um, if you have any questions or anything like that, I just thought I'd call in and, uh, touch base.
	If not, uh, fine.
	Well, what did you think of, uh, his project?
	This project was very interesting.
	They could have put more time and attention to detail into it, but as he said, the funding had run out and there wasn't very much we could do beyond that.
	Some of the things he did not mention were the limitations that were placed on the project because of safety.
	Um, primarily, it's like, uh, nobody in production really wanted to get burned alive, so we kind of, like, tabled that for something else some other time.
	All right.
	Getting splashed with, uh, liquid aluminum is nobody's idea of a good day.
	Either that, or exposure to a high-intensity microwave's easier, you know?
	It's like, good day ruiners.
	I, I do.
	Uh, thank you very much, Nicola, and, uh, I'm glad you, you called to kind of back him up.
	Uh, obviously, the man Thought he was really on to something.
	Apparently he was.
	Um, because the number of, I mean, the people who have looked at it, yourself, Underseen Haramine, um, I mean, really, I think he was on to something.
	and uh... he spent a hundred and fifty thousand dollars of his own money
	so you know god bless people like that and one day
	somebody like that man if not that man will invent something that will take us to the stars
	Bye.
	Don't doubt it.
	Okay, let's go to the phones, I guess.
	You're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Yes, I was...
	Taken by the guest that you had tonight, there were certain questions I had for him about the particular crop circle that he has on his trailer, but I'm not able to ask him directly, so there's no point in bringing that up, but it did lead into... Well, let me ask a question of you.
	You saw the trailer.
	It was very impressive, huh?
	Yes, sir.
	Yes, sir.
	Very impressive.
	And that particular crop circle has actually been notorious on the website for being one of the more complicated ones.
	There was an actual alien script that came up 20 days after that initial radar dish crop circle showed up.
	And then after the radar dish showed up on June 2nd, 2009, this mysterious script showed up shortly after.
	And I was really hoping to hear how he had interpreted that script, but that's all, you know, water under the bridge in that case.
	But anyway, you did bring up Ellie Arroways coming together with a third-dimensional construct from the message that she's received, and I've put a lot of thought into Uh-oh.
	Into what?
	You're gone.
	That's too bad.
	Just gone.
	Well, let's stick with the phone, I guess, and go here.
	You're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hello, Art.
	Hi.
	Hello, this is Hubert from Reading, Pennsylvania.
	Yes, sir.
	First-time caller, about 20-year listener.
	I had some suggestions for possible guests.
	Okay.
	There's a Dr. Joseph P. Farrell.
	I don't know if you ever heard of him.
	Here's what I would ask you to do.
	I have a really, really nice producer named Heather.
	And if you would email the suggestions to her, you would get action.
	She is producer at artbell.com.
	Okay.
	And that'll get the job done.
	Alrighty.
	Okay, thank you very much.
	Anybody with ideas?
	By all means, go to my producer and, you know, that's the way to get it actually on the way.
	In the meantime, let's, I guess, go to Skype and say hello to Ryan.
	Hey, how's it going?
	It's going okay, Ryan.
	Hey, so, Art, I have a question for you.
	Okay.
	What would you do if you had eight days to live?
	If I had a what?
	If you had eight days to live.
	Eight days to live?
	Yes.
	Um... That's really a good question, eight days to live.
	Why eight days, by the way?
	Well, eight days from now will be September 23rd.
	You think that's going to be the case?
	Yeah, I believe an asteroid will hit the Earth on that day.
	Ah, here we are again.
	Another one.
	Um, so then it's really better to ask you, because you obviously believe we have eight days to live, so whatcha gonna do?
	Probably, you know what, I'm probably just gonna drink some beer, hang out on my back porch, just kinda watch it all, watch it all end.
	Really?
	You honestly believe it's gonna end?
	I mean, yeah.
	I think NASA is hiding that fact from us, to not induce panic.
	Well, I don't know what to say to you.
	Enjoy your beer.
	Yeah, you should have one too, Art.
	I should.
	I rarely, rarely drink a beer.
	Maybe on a very, very hot day.
	Or the last day.
	I might enjoy a beer.
	I wonder how many people really believe this.
	I really do wonder that.
	I'm beginning to get nervous.
	So many people seem to believe it, actually believe it.
	Why would that be?
	I know there's a conjunction of many things all at once, and I guess that's what's doing it.
	Or, maybe you all are right.
	Ryan, hello?
	Yes.
	Yes.
	So, anything else, or is that it?
	Well, that's pretty much it.
	I just, you know, anyone who's listening, you know, just, uh, just relax.
	Don't worry about it.
	You know?
	Why worry?
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	It's going to end.
	All right.
	Good enough.
	Uh, let's go to, uh, the phone and somebody or another.
	Hello.
	Hello, Art.
	Hi.
	Hi there.
	I'm a longtime listener and so happy that you're back.
	Well, thank you.
	You are radio.
	Well, uh, thank you.
	Anyway, I'm calling to suggest a topic that I believe you've probably touched on in the past.
	I'm interested in the theory of multiple universes and the likelihood of us slipping between them, mostly without being noticed, but I'm calling because of a very, well, my husband and I have both had strange events happen to us in the past, in different states at different times.
	Really weird, and I'd like to tell you about that.
	We were in a car accident, T-boned by a truck when we were in a small car.
	He was temporarily paralyzed, but we were on the way to the doctor, and so we just continued on to the doctor.
	He was alright after about 15-20 minutes.
	So, a few days later, he had to go in for an MRI, and this is where it gets strange.
	He goes into the hospital, we get the paperwork, Go up to that department and there's people sitting behind the desk and specifically one woman, another one that left, and anyway, so we hand over the paperwork and say he's here for his MRI.
	And she said, well, he was just here.
	He just had an MRI.
	And she looked around, I guess, for the paperwork and maybe couldn't find it.
	I don't know.
	Anyway, I said, no, no, we weren't just here and he didn't have an MRI.
	Uh, and she became so frightened, uh, that, uh, she stayed there for a few minutes and argued with us that, that, uh, she, that he had just been in.
	And, uh, she literally, she sent us to sit down and wait for the technician because there wasn't anything else she could do.
	And, uh, she got up and ran out of the room.
	So I think, well, maybe that's a little strange.
	But then, of course, I don't go in with him, but the technician, the man comes to the door, calls his name and says, well, you can't have an MRI.
	I just gave you one.
	And we argue again that, no, we just got here and he has not had this MRI.
	Well, the technician didn't know what to do, but at least he didn't leave the scene.
	He took him in and he had his MRI and there was some damage, but nothing, you know, we're still around after 46 years of marriage.
	So, that was the experience and that's always stuck with me.
	Would have been interesting to compare the two MRIs.
	Well, yes, and I don't know what the hospital did.
	I mean, we just kind of let it go with that, but I've been thinking about it.
	This happened in 2000, and I have just been wondering about it ever since and always wanting to approach you with it.
	My experience, that was in Nebraska, and my experience happened in Sedona, Arizona, and He was waiting out front.
	He wasn't with me when that happened.
	We had got into there and I had never set my foot on the ground in that state.
	But we were hungry.
	It was late at night.
	We stopped in at a hamburger joint that was very crowded.
	There was a whole row of registers and lines of people and the room was very crowded.
	I walk into that room and A lot of people turn around and look at me and say, well, uh, you're back already.
	You were just here.
	And, and, uh, that could have been like somebody who looked like me or was dressed like me or whatever.
	So, I mean, I didn't give as much credence to that as I did.
	You can't be given people one MRI after another one.
	And that's, that's what really stuck with me.
	And I know you've touched on a lot of different subjects, but, I've often wondered if there aren't really multiple universes and oftentimes people can slip from one to another without actually realizing it.
	I'm with you all the way.
	But it's interesting that, thank you, that you get witnesses to it.
	In other words, in that case, there was an absolute witness.
	Actually, in both cases.
	Perhaps the first case a little stronger.
	Yes, it is.
	It's certainly possible.
	We could slip in and out of the current reality into something else.
	We'd never notice.
	But yes, I guess others would.
	Marvin, hello.
	Good evening, Art.
	Hi.
	Please turn off your device.
	Well, I don't have a device on.
	Whatever it is playing the show.
	No, I don't have anything planned for the show.
	I'm in the other complete end of the house with an earbud in my ear on my iPhone on Skype.
	Okay.
	So it's some kind of weird Skype thing.
	I guess.
	Anyway, I wanted to talk a second about Ham Radio and Harp because I really think that, I don't know whether you've had much time to play on 75 Meters this season, but The bands are acting different than they've ever acted before.
	I could not agree with you more.
	I absolutely agree with you.
	Uh, conditions, uh, if you want to call them that.
	I'm hearing that in the background, uh, very strongly.
	Um, all right, I'm going to have to terminate because of that.
	But anyway, um, he's right.
	That man is absolutely right.
	Conditions have changed in a way that is kind of suspicious, frankly, of HAARP.
	I have never quite seen anything like it.
	For those of you who are not ham operators, this will not mean much to you.
	But 75 meters was an old, dependable amateur radio band, one in which you could go back night after night after night and talk to friends reliably in, you know, a 1,500 mile or less range.
	And that has changed.
	It is now true that 75 meters is no longer reliable in that regard.
	It does what's called going long, And the people that you generally associate and be able to, normally you're able to talk to them reliably, are no longer there.
	In other words, you can no longer receive them.
	So, I want to, even though he had that going in the background and I had to cut the call, the fact of the matter is that he's right.
	Something profound has changed about the lower frequencies of the amateur radio band.
	I don't know what that something is.
	I just know that it has changed.
	It began a few years ago.
	It could be associated with the Sunspot Cycle, I suppose.
	Or... Or it could be associated with HAARP.
	And a lot of ham operators blamed it on HAARP.
	HAARP, by the way, has now been turned over from the military to a university.
	And what they're going to do with it?
	I'd have to wait to find out.
	Listen, so many hanging on all the lines and all the callers.
	Thank you.
	Sorry I can't get to you.
	We'll do it again.
	I guarantee open lines every time we get the opportunity.
	Good night all.

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