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Aug. 18, 2015 - Art Bell

02:16:02

Art Bell MITD - Father Jack Ashcraft Exorcism

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	From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you good evening, good morning,
	good afternoon, wherever you may be on the planet.
	I'm not trying to be a...
	This is Midnight in the Desert.
	I'm Art Bell.
	The rules for this program are short and sweet.
	No bad language.
	No bad language, and only one call per show.
	That's it.
	Okay, a couple of items before our guest tonight, Father Jack Ashcraft.
	And here they are.
	Oh no, wait a minute.
	I forgot all the thank yous, didn't I?
	I've got to do those.
	Thank you, Telos, for the great sound.
	Joe Talbot, of course, here in Pahrump.
	What are the odds of that?
	About a zillion to one.
	Keith Rowland, my webmaster.
	Heather Wade, producer.
	Streamguys.
	LV.net.
	Sales is Pete Everhart, of course.
	And TuneIn Radio for all that distribution.
	You know, it's easy.
	You get a telephone.
	An iPad, any kind of pad, just download, you know, the app, and you're here.
	You know, search for my name, and you're here.
	It's that simple.
	Now, two women have apparently passed the Army's grueling ranger test, and even tougher and more dangerous jobs may well lie ahead.
	The military services are poised to allow women to serve in most front-line combat jobs.
	I don't think this is a good idea.
	I just don't.
	I don't know why, because I'm old.
	Officials say the Army and Air Force, likely, will not seek exceptions, meaning they'll go along with it.
	Army, Navy, and Air Force are going to go.
	Not so much the Marines, though.
	They're going to seek an exception.
	I'm a little puzzled, actually, why I'm against it.
	I think that in a combat situation, a military man would want to save a woman probably ahead
	Maybe they've somehow bred that out of them.
	I don't know.
	All right, there's a little bit of news.
	Public service announcements have indicated recently that if you see a UFO in England, forget it.
	Well, don't forget it.
	I mean, call, move on.
	But the traditional people that have been Investigating UFOs in Great Britain are giving it up.
	Actually, forget the RAAF says, forget it.
	Don't even bother to report it to us.
	Mysterious Universe shares a trio of UFO sightings.
	This all comes from the anomalous.com.
	You might check them out.
	These defy conventional descriptions, which is impressive, given the fact that UFOs are already defying conventional description in the first place, right, by what they're doing.
	But when's the last time you spotted a flying, glowing arrow?
	How about a flying, glowing arrow the size of an 18-wheeler over Long Island, New York?
	According to eyewitnesses, not one but many, who Caught it on video.
	The UFO approached Long Island, MacArthur Airport, blinking lights, then stopped in midair, and then, get this, began moving backwards.
	Now, that is not generally something airplanes can do, normally, or ever.
	And a bit south, I guess they've discovered several sightings of UFOs near a place called Uxmal.
	I believe it is U-X-M-A-L in Mexico.
	But you know what?
	There have been so many of them that like in close encounters of the third kind people, visitors are frequently seen gathering nightly and waiting for the UFOs to show up.
	One last housekeeping item, and then we're off and away.
	And that is, I have said on my Facebook page, and now I'm going to say here on the air, we have something called Time Travelers.
	Time Travelers are people who join us for, at the moment, five bucks a month.
	Time Travelers are able to listen to any old show.
	Any, you know, tomorrow morning you could be listening to this program.
	Many of you, I'm sure, are.
	And so it gives you the ability to do that, to listen to older shows as we have created them, and now we're beginning to get a little pile of old shows.
	A pretty good-sized pile, actually.
	So you have that privilege, and you also have the ability to go... As a matter of fact, let me bring it up right now.
	I got busy before the show.
	We have something called the wormhole.
	And that gives you the ability to go to artbill.com, type in a question that suddenly appears on my computer, and then I can pass it on to the guest.
	Or not, depending on the quality of your question, frankly.
	All right, comes now Father Jack Ashcraft.
	He was ordained a traditional Byzantine Catholic priest in 2005, and a C'est De Veil contest,
	that's a C'est De Veil contest, I believe.
	And as such, he is a very vocal critic of the Vatican, as was Father Martin, exposing the infiltration of the Vatican by forces in contention with Christianity who support globalism.
	He is an independent author addressing apologetics issues like modern cultural changes, the paranormal phenomena, exorcisms, UFOs, and more.
	He's been called, in fact, the Malachi Martin of the 21st century.
	He is one of the leading authorities on cults, the occult, and exorcism.
	So, coming up in just a moment is going to be a very, very interesting man.
	Father Ashman.
	And oh, I've got lots of places to go with this program tonight.
	Stay right where you are.
	And where you are is Midnight in the Desert.
	I'm Art Bell.
	All the life is over.
	City lights, painted skirts.
	In the day, the moon is up.
	And in each sip, and in each sip, Will you partake of that last offered cup?
	the next video.
	Or disappear into the butterscrap?
	Wanna take a ride?
	Your conductor, Art Bell, will punch your ticket when you call 1952.
	Call Art, that's 1952-225-5278.
	Seemed the perfect opening bumper, wouldn't you say?
	952-225-5278.
	Seemed the perfect opening bumper, wouldn't you say?
	All right, now, one last thing that I guess I didn't mention.
	We have a deadline.
	For the time travelers I mentioned?
	Yes, indeed.
	It's $5 right now, and you'll be grandfathered in if you join between now and tomorrow night midnight.
	That's the deal.
	Between now and tomorrow night midnight.
	No.
	What is today?
	Today is the 18th.
	Midnight on the 20th.
	Okay, midnight on the 19th.
	Depending on how you want to think of it.
	I guess it's midnight on the 20th.
	Get all fouled up with midnight.
	All right.
	Anyway, here he comes, Father Jack Ashcraft.
	Welcome to Midnight in the Desert.
	It's an honor and a privilege.
	Thank you.
	Thank you for coming.
	Where are you located, out of curiosity?
	I'm actually in the greater Cincinnati, northern Kentucky area.
	Okay.
	All right.
	Father, you also knew of Father Malachi Martin.
	Many have apparently compared you to him.
	Is that correct?
	Yeah, but I'm glad you asked that because I want to sort of clear something up on that.
	Okay.
	It is certainly not because I have the same level of education as Father Martin.
	As you know, he was highly educated and a brilliant man, very intelligent.
	Well, you've obviously got some under your belt.
	Well, yeah.
	Not quite to the degree he had.
	I think, really, the comparison is really because he and I approach the same topics in a very public and vocal manner that perhaps others might not.
	Well, then it would be appropriate for you to pick up the mantle.
	You say you're a C'est De Veil contest.
	What is that, please?
	Well, the term Sede Vicantis comes from the Latin Sede Vicante, which means the seat is vacant.
	Now, whenever a pope dies, the church is in a state of Sede Vicante.
	However, the position of Sede Vicantis which is the position of Father Martin came to later in his life, is that the popes from the start of the pontificate of John XXIII on down to the current claimant to the papacy are all anti-popes.
	That is, they are not real popes.
	They are false shepherds and not to be trusted.
	And Father Martin came to that position himself late in life, and that is really the connection
	I have to run this through.
	Okay, we're getting a sudden bunch of noise in there.
	Maybe it's a cord on your...
	I'm sorry.
	That's all right.
	So he came to the same conclusion late in life, you say?
	Yeah.
	He actually participated in the ordination of at least one Sedevacantus priest for the
	Roman rite, rather than the Byzantine, which makes sense because Father Martin was Roman
	rite.
	Yes, he even went further, and I'm going to come back to this, but he even went further in saying that there was The evil influence in the Vatican.
	Oh, absolutely.
	I mean, John XXIII, there were documents that fell into the hands of some say-to-be contests that proved that John XXIII had been a Rosicrucian.
	And possibly even a Freemason.
	And from there, I mean, you have a whole lot of other things that connected to that.
	A lot of the other prelates had connections to, at the time, Soviet Russia.
	were Closet
	communists And then you had others who are outright occultists and
	Satanists as father Martin made very clear. He sure did And so you agree with that?
	Absolutely, how come how come you don't get a letter from Rome saying?
	You're out Well Rome doesn't recognize any state of account is
	But but the point is is that because we understand that they are that that the current hierarchy is not
	valid They don't have any authority to over us anyway
	So, even if they did issue a letter, it would be meaningless, because according to traditional canon law, we are quite valid, and in fact, at this point, are the only valid clergy that the Catholic faith will have.
	So, much like, I don't know, civil service workers, you can't be fired.
	Correct, correct.
	I mean, they can't do anything.
	They can complain, as they did with Archbishop Lefebvre and the Society of St.
	Pius X, but ultimately that's not going to do them any good.
	They have no authority.
	It's interesting that people are aware of Father Martin's Uh, writings on these issues, but they're not really that aware of how it is he knew so much.
	And I think that is a very interesting story.
	And a lot of the, I guess you could call them fans of Father Martin, take umbrage when the information is, is given because it's not pretty.
	He did know a great deal and probably shared more with me than he should have.
	Things that I don't share on the air and some that I do.
	But yes, you're right, he knew a very great deal.
	I guess he was close to Popes and I can only imagine in my mind what it would take for somebody like yourself or Father Martin or any other priest to Get to the point where you're saying the things that you're saying.
	It must be really bad.
	Well, yes, and it has been since the at least pretend pontificate of John XXIII.
	And Father Martin, what a lot of people don't realize is that he knew because in his very early years, in the 60s and early 70s, He worked for one of the architects of the subversion and realized at some point, obviously,
	That he had worked for the wrong side.
	And with the wrong crowd, yeah.
	That was Cardinal Bay.
	Wow.
	Of course, like I said, some of the fans of Father Martin get upset when you mention that fact, but it is nonetheless a fact.
	Father Martin wrote under various pen names, books and articles in support of the subversive element.
	that was present at the Second Vatican Council.
	And he was on that payroll.
	And at some point in his life, he clearly came to the realization that, whoa, I'm on the wrong side here.
	And he switched sides pretty quickly.
	So his information wasn't just because he was a Jesuit and worked with popes, it was because he actively worked With the very subversive forces that he later in his life worked to combat, realizing the mistake he had made, I think.
	Have you heard anything about how his life ended?
	Yeah, there's a lot of rumor there.
	There were apparently some very shady characters around him.
	And I do know that from what I've heard, this is just rumor, I don't know for sure, He was getting ready to, along with another priest, expose a particular individual who was, I believe, a bishop.
	And then he met his unfortunate and sudden demise.
	It was suspicious to say the least.
	Wow, you are adding to what I had heard.
	I heard that the fall itself down the steps was suspicious.
	Now, what you have added is a possible motive for it.
	Yeah.
	Goodness.
	Alright, so how's it going with you?
	Hopefully you don't have any steep staircases close by?
	Fortunately, I live on a one level.
	Good for you!
	But I do have enemies, and most of them are just online people who like to attack me, claiming I'm a Jesuit plant when I've never been a Jesuit in my life.
	I had a group of occultists who attempted a smear campaign against me at one point, and you know, the usual hyper-fundamentalist crowd.
	Who attack you with, you know, whatever they can make things up.
	I assume this is mainly because of your public stance.
	Yes, exactly.
	Okay.
	You know, when you, as you know, when you're in the public eye, especially on the internet, it's anything goes.
	It's free for all.
	Oh, how well I know.
	How well I know.
	All right.
	Let me begin by asking this really important question.
	Is Satan real?
	Absolutely.
	I do believe in a very real, literal Satan, just as I believe in a literal, real, historical Adam.
	I don't know what Father Martin's position on that was.
	Oh, he was with you all the way.
	Okay.
	A very real Satan.
	In fact, he once made a comment, Father, He would walk down the streets in New York City and he would see people and somehow he would know instinctively or in a way that only he could know that he was looking at what he called a perfectly possessed person.
	You ever hear that phrase?
	Oh yeah, of course.
	Yeah, I mean anyone who's involved in exorcism ministry for any length of time And I want to stress that that is just a small aspect of an overall sacerdotal ministry.
	But anyone who's been involved with it for any length of time develops a discernment and is able to recognize the signs of possession.
	And there are some who propose a perfect possession, which means that the demonic entity is in full and complete control 24 hours, 7 days a week, and that the personality of the host is Subdued and is no longer in control of the faculties.
	He seemed to feel that it more or less meant that the individual involved had made their deal.
	Whether it was for, you know, work, it was for fortune, it was for lust, or whatever the deal was.
	They had made their deal.
	They're either satisfied with it or it doesn't matter because they've been taken over at that point.
	Yeah, a perfect position is only possible when the person voluntarily gives themselves over to this in exchange for money, fame, whatever it might be, as you said.
	Those cases are rare, but I think that demonic activity is becoming more prevalent.
	Did we lose your audio?
	I'm not hearing you now.
	That's not good.
	Hello, Father.
	Okay, well, my guest is Father Ashcraft, and we apparently have lost connection with him.
	Yes, I see there's a little thing that says, there is a problem with this call.
	Hold on until we can re-establish the call.
	So I'm sure that's what it's trying to do right now.
	We were discussing people who are perfectly possessed, and I think you're back now.
	Yes.
	I could hear you the whole time, it just wasn't allowing me to speak.
	I see.
	But demonic activity is becoming more common, and I think it's because our society and our culture is moving Right.
	more and more away from godly principles, away from morality, away from any sense of
	ethics, any objective values whatsoever into this post-modern milieu of absolute relativism.
	Right.
	He said that the number of people possessed or in trouble in New York City had risen by
	by some astronomical number.
	Now this is years ago, and he said it was increased by 800%, which I found incredible.
	I don't know how he gets those numbers, but...
	I couldn't tell you.
	I don't know.
	I just know that we see more cases now.
	However, I still want to say that, you know, the number of claims compared to the number of actual cases is still There's a wide margin there.
	The number of claims that I receive in a year, it's just astronomical.
	But once they're investigated, generally you find that there's something else going on here.
	Anything ranging from psychological issues all the way down to just absolute fakery and attention seeking.
	Sure.
	I'm sure there's a lot of that.
	I mean, in all areas that we examine on this program, we get a lot of that.
	You know, there's a lot of fakery.
	It's hard to sift through it all.
	However, it's very important to sift through it all.
	As a good friend of mine who does a show after mine called Richard C. Hoagland says, all it takes is one A white crow to prove there are white crows.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	I mean, if there's only one case of demonic possession in my entire lifetime, then that's one too many, in my opinion.
	Are there degrees of possession?
	Yes.
	Well, not necessarily possession, but demonic activity, influence over the individual, everything starting from diabolic temptation. In other words, a temptation to do
	things that goes beyond normal temptations.
	That becomes consuming. Something you just can't avoid anymore. It's in your every thought.
	Like drugs, alcohol, women?
	Yes, any of those things.
	Those are all hooks, enticements to deeper demonic influence.
	And that generally leads to obsession.
	You know, you're obsessed with a particular level or area of sinful activity, self-destructive activity.
	And the next step beyond that, well, would be oppression first.
	I would say oppression is first, precedes obsession.
	Oppression is, the best way to think about that is you've read the story of Job and how Job was attacked in sacred scripture and Satan took away everything from him, his children, his wife, you know, everything.
	Yes.
	That is a biblical example of oppression now in the current world.
	Father, hold your thought.
	We're at a break, so hold tight.
	Want to take a ride?
	Exclusively on the Dark Matter Digital Network.
	This is Midnight in the Desert with your host, Art Bell.
	To call Art, please dial 1952-225-5278.
	That's 1952.
	Call Art.
	Actually, please don't call yet, actually.
	That's two actuallys, isn't it?
	Just wait.
	We'll get deeper into the interview and then we will indeed open the phone lines.
	Not to worry.
	Once again, Father Ashcraft, and great to have you back, and great to have you on the show.
	I think we had just discussed Job a little bit, and I don't think we're done, so proceed.
	Yeah, we were talking about oppression and the fact that that is one of the levels of demonic activity and that would work out in modern life much the same way it did for Job.
	You might experience a loss of job, a loss of livelihood, you lose your Your wife, she leaves you.
	Things like this.
	Overwhelming and persistent problems surrounding your life.
	Could be indications of demonic oppression.
	And then the final, the end game, is actual possession.
	And demonic possession can either be transient or perfect, as we've discussed.
	And in transient possession, that is the most common.
	The demonic entity enters and leaves the body intermittently in order to carry out its It's desires, whatever that might be.
	Father, can I ask an opinion question, and that is, how many people do you think are in various types of asylums who have been judged by somebody in a position to do so, that they are crazy, they are mentally disturbed, but they're actually in, they're possessed Um, I think it's it's not...
	Unreasonable to say that there is a good portion of people who are in psychiatric facilities who are under some form of demonic attack.
	That's not to say all of them because I mean there are many things that can masquerade as or be mistaken for demonic activity that are actually Psychological or environmental, you know, things like Temporal Lobe Epilepsy, Gershwin Syndrome, Bipolar Manic Depression, etc.
	Sure, sure, but a doctor, a psychiatrist, is almost never going to diagnose demonic possession.
	Well, true enough, but there are a growing number of psychologists who have recognized the spiritual dimension to some of the approaches to psychotherapy,
	and that in some cases, exorcism has ended what they perceived to have been a
	purely psychological issue.
	I wonder when they write up the final report if they really include the fact that whatever
	cure or improvement was achieved was because of exorcism.
	There have been a couple.
	I do know of a couple.
	I can't remember the specific psychiatrist names off the top of my head.
	One of the reports is available at my website and there's also a link there to another website on the right hand side there that will take you to another article by the other psychiatrists. So they're both there for people who are
	interested in reading them. They're pretty lengthy, very clinical, but they do
	explain the role of exorcism in psychotherapy.
	I would think generally, kind of like, again, Close Encounters of the Third Kind with the air controller asking the pilot, do you want to report a UFO?
	And the pilot thought about it for months and said, no, I don't want to report one of those.
	It's kind of like that.
	Alright, I've got to get this out, so let me get it out.
	The other day I interviewed a leader of the Church of Satan.
	This woman, articulate, very well-spoken, obviously well-educated, Says that she was, some time ago, the High Priestess of the Church of Satan.
	She was Anton LaVey's lover.
	She is the mother of his son.
	And she presently is the Chairmistress of the Council of Nine.
	Now, when we booked that interview, I thought, oh, this is going to be some really scary stuff.
	I mean, we're talking chains rattling, hellfires burning, that sort of thing.
	The interview turned out to be anything but that.
	And in fact, I asked, I think the first question I asked was, do you, so you worship Satan?
	She said, no.
	I paused.
	Thought about it for a moment.
	I thought, well, now wait a minute.
	Here you are ahead of the church, Church of Satan, and you don't worship Satan.
	Well, okay, so that's... And what I'm going to do is I'm going to let you hear just a moment of that interview, and then I'll come back and get your impressions of it.
	This was the most easygoing, attempting to be likable Satanist that you're ever going to hear in your whole life.
	Well, let me play this and then we'll talk more.
	But again, I'm going to keep going down this road as far as I can take you.
	And I will ask, is it possible to use a person's essence, bodily fluids, whatever, essence, in a positive way for them?
	As well as a negative way for them Absolutely, we have three basic rituals. We have lust
	compassion and Destruction so the point of going into the ritual chamber
	in the first place is not Primarily to move the universe in the way you want it to I
	I mean, that's of course good as a side effect, but it's a psychodrama.
	Let me give you an example.
	Sure.
	Okay?
	So, someone at work is really working against you.
	Someone is telling the boss lies about you.
	They're making you look bad.
	They're hiding your materials.
	They're really going out of their way to hurt you.
	So you go into it.
	You're really frustrated.
	You're thinking about this person all the time.
	You can't eat.
	You can't sleep.
	You're really angry.
	And you feel impotent.
	So you go into the ritual chamber.
	You do a destruction ritual.
	You concentrate on this person.
	And you wish them all the bad, bad things to happen to them.
	And you let it go.
	You let all of it go.
	You build up all of that energy, and like a good orgasm, you just flow out.
	It goes out into the universe.
	And then, you let go of the rope.
	It's done.
	As far as you're concerned, it is done.
	It's a done deal.
	As far as you're concerned?
	You've spoken to the universe.
	It's going to happen.
	Whatever's supposed to happen will happen.
	So next week, you go into work, and this schmo has been promoted and moved to Hawaii.
	So, did your curse work?
	Well, you don't have to deal with him anymore, do you?
	And maybe he'll get caught in a wonderful storm in Hawaii, and maybe his life will be terrible.
	So maybe you go in next week, and he was hit by a Mack truck, now has about 35 broken bones, and is in traction in the hospital.
	There you go!
	You know, that's the way it goes.
	Yes.
	Well, I love the fact that you can bring up the rosiest metaphor possible when discussing somebody you don't like.
	That's the way the interview went, Father.
	And at the end of the interview, people were saying, oh my goodness, that really was something.
	There was nothing scary about that.
	In fact, it sounded kind of good.
	And you know, I thought, boy, I didn't have a good show, did I?
	And so the next day, I did something I never do.
	I listened to my own program again.
	And it hit me like a brick, about three quarters of the way through it, that Satan is a trickster.
	And so it would make sense that the head of the church, the representative of Satan, would be the very same.
	And boy, that is exactly what she was.
	And then, as I listened to the show, I really began to get creeped out, because she was so Well spoken for the bad guy.
	Well, you know, as you mentioned, Satan is a trickster and he will come as an angel of light.
	Yeah.
	And scripture says he will do that so that he can deceive the very elect.
	You know, the fact of the matter is sin, evil, feels good.
	Otherwise, nobody would do it.
	I mean, that's just how it is.
	You are dead on the money.
	When I was doing the show, you know, I was looking for a scary show.
	What I got was a scary show.
	It just didn't hit me until the next day.
	And I went, oh my God, what did I do?
	I wasn't paying attention.
	Yeah, and I think a lot of people are not looking beyond The fluff in what she had to say.
	That's right.
	To the philosophy that lies underneath it, which is definitely a malevolent approach to humanity.
	Yeah.
	Just on a purely anthropological level, not even to speak of the spiritual level there.
	You know, with Satanism, you have two distinct schools there.
	The LaVey type tend to look at it from a sort of psycho-spiritual perspective, which is what you had from this woman.
	And then you have people like Michael Aquino, who recognizes the literal Satan and sets out to worship and embody the character of the literal biblical Satan.
	And you've just got flip sides of the same coin there.
	One's just a little bit more honest about what they're worshipping than the other.
	Same end person though, huh?
	Indeed so.
	Entity, I guess, is the right word.
	As an exorcist, I would guess that you have, in effect, encountered Satan.
	Not him himself.
	And that, I would say, is pretty rare.
	I only know of a few cases where the entity claimed to have been Satan himself.
	And even in those cases, you have to take that with a grain of salt.
	Theologically speaking, we tend to think that Satan doesn't personally possess anyone, although there is some speculation that he will in the person of the Antichrist.
	Rather, what we find in cases of demonic possession are Right.
	Let me stop you there and let's talk about that.
	Envy and hate.
	They envy us.
	demons, they are the ones carrying out this work. And they do so essentially
	because they envy and hate humanity at the same time. We have things that they don't.
	Oh, I'm sorry, go ahead. Right, let me stop you there and let's talk about that.
	Envy and hate. They envy us. Why? Well, we possess something that angels don't. That
	God is a soul.
	and...
	And we were also created, as scripture says, in the image and likeness of God.
	Angels were not.
	And because we have such an intimate connection like that to the Creator, Satan and these angels who followed him Scripture says it was a third.
	They grew angry.
	They hated us because they felt because they were so magnificent that they should be the rulers and they should be the beloved of the Creator.
	And yet they weren't.
	Satan himself, Scripture tells us, was created with the essence of music in his being.
	And that he was an angel of light and, you know, a very beautiful angel.
	And so this, the envy that must just wreck his being.
	At the fact that humanity was created in the image and likeness of God and he wasn't.
	And he feels that he is more powerful.
	He is more beautiful.
	He should be more beloved.
	But that's not the case.
	And so that's where you get this envy and hatred of humanity.
	And that's why the demons attack humans.
	They want to, in whatever way they can, mar, destroy, The image of God in man.
	That's what that war is about.
	Wow.
	Alright, I know this is a really dumb question to ask a priest, but one that I'm going to ask anyway.
	You are absolutely convinced, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that we have souls.
	Yes.
	Yes.
	And that's, of course, because I approach this from a place of faith.
	Although there are some out there in the, I guess you would say, scientific community who approach the subject of metaphysics and try to prove things scientifically.
	I don't really need that.
	Because I tend to take a biblical approach, a biblical worldview.
	And so, for me, when Scripture says, this is so, then I accept that is so.
	I so envy you for that absolute knowledge that you have.
	I so envy that.
	I really do.
	I want to believe.
	Now, conversely, strangely perhaps, and this will turn into a question, you know, I have cats.
	People have dogs, cats, various animals.
	But when I look into their eyes, and when I watch their behavior, and I see these cats have love, they have Just about every emotion that one can have without the ability to express it vocally.
	In other words, they have everything that would make me believe that if there are souls, if we have them, that they do too.
	I'm not going to get you in trouble here, am I?
	By asking, I mean, do they have souls?
	You know, you're asking a question that you could ask a number of theologians and get different answers.
	Let's be honest.
	Okay, that sounds a little like a wiggle, but okay.
	Scripture does mention animals being in the eternal kingdom, the kingdom of God, after The final battle, as everybody knows, at Armageddon.
	You know, it talks about the lion lying down with the lamb.
	So, you know, do they have souls?
	I can't answer that positively.
	That's something that I think scripture is fairly silent on as far as addressing particularly.
	I have an opinion.
	It's very clear about human beings, but animals, not so much.
	Yeah, and you know, just speaking from opinion here, I would say no, but that doesn't preclude them from being in the kingdom, obviously.
	They're going to be there.
	Scripture has that imagery.
	But you're right, they are capable of a certain degree of emotion.
	I see it all.
	I mean, we could tick through the emotions.
	We don't need to.
	Envy, just every sadness, happiness, joy, you could just go right on through them, except for the ability to vocalize these things.
	They've got them all.
	And, I don't know, being such an animal, I'm a very big animal lover, and when you look into their eyes, it feels like you're looking at as much life as when you're looking at a person.
	So, I don't know.
	Well, you know, there are those who would argue that those emotions are the effect of a soul.
	Exactly.
	All right, we're at a break point.
	It's a good one, too.
	Father, hold on.
	Father Ashcraft is my guest.
	And I knew he was going to be good, and he's good.
	We haven't even begun to talk about what you do about possession.
	Of course, I'm talking about exorcism.
	and stay right where you are, because it's ahead.
	It's not radio, but it is music.
	It's not radio, but it is what's next.
	To cast your ray of light into the darkness, please call 1-952-CALL-ART.
	That's 1-952-225-5278.
	It's, in some cases, radio, actually.
	Welcome back.
	I'm Art Bell.
	This is Midnight in the Desert.
	Father Jack Ashcraft is my guest, and I knew this would be a good show.
	I just knew it would be, and it is.
	All right, Father.
	You mentioned Armageddon, and you mentioned that you thought the influence of Satan was increasing, as did Father Martin.
	I wonder if that final day that nobody knows when it will be, Armageddon itself, simply occurs when his influence becomes predominant, when it takes over, and then that's it.
	Well, certainly a study of eschatology will tell us that society throughout the world will grow increasingly godless, immoral, and whether knowingly or not, everyone Every single person in this world is involved in spiritual warfare, whether they know it or not.
	And so, you know, depending on your position in that war, in that battle, depends on what side you're going to be fighting for, knowingly or unknowingly, and what the end result will be for you personally.
	But certainly, the Scripture tells us that the culture throughout the world will become increasingly godless, malevolent, and I think we see that today.
	You know, when you look at ISIS, look what they're doing.
	I mean, even within Their own stated belief systems, what they're doing is all whacked out and wrong, lopping off heads, doing the very worst things to people you can imagine, lighting them on fire, oh God it's awful, absolutely awful.
	Yeah, and what you have there is you have a people who are calling evil good, and good evil, and you know they justify everything from From rape and murder to theft, I mean, pedophilia, all of this is somehow in this twisted worldview that they have somehow a godly thing.
	And this is what Scripture tells us is going to occur in the world.
	And, you know, I'm going to be politically incorrect here.
	Oh, you might be.
	Coming from the biblical worldview, then I also have to say that the homosexual agenda, which goes far beyond asking for mere rights, to in some cases forced participation, And conversely, let's point the finger at the church as well.
	Churches not doing what they should do.
	In my opinion, no one should go hungry or homeless who lives within five, ten miles of a church.
	Let's point the finger at the church as well.
	Churches not doing what they should do.
	In my opinion, no one should go hungry or homeless who lives within five, 10 miles of a church.
	Now, if you think about how many churches we have in just the United States,
	we wouldn't need a welfare state if the church would simply fulfill Christ's command
	to love our neighbor as ourselves, feed them, clothe them.
	Well, the church from the Vatican on down certainly has plenty of money, don't they?
	Well, yeah, the institutional churches certainly do.
	And, you know, I think that also contributes to the problem.
	This current Pope is indicative of the problem in Western culture in general.
	He is not, obviously not, a traditional Catholic in any sense of the term.
	He is not a biblical Christian in any sense of the term.
	The man is, at best, a post-modernist.
	I know he's been shocking the Catholic world.
	I mean, really shocking it.
	My wife, by the way, Father, is Catholic.
	She's a Filipina.
	And they're very Catholic.
	I mean, really Catholic.
	And several things the Pope has said have, for her, been very shocking.
	And I guess for a lot of Catholics.
	Certainly.
	Is this, uh, I don't know how to put this, uh, is it, is it the church itself, uh, just becoming, uh, starting to become politically correct?
	What's going on?
	Oh, what's going on indeed?
	We've lost Father Ashcraft.
	That's alright, he'll be back.
	Um, Skype is attempting to reconnect.
	This is really something that has puzzled me.
	I'm, I, By no stretch of the imagination am I a Catholic.
	I sort of looked at it, as you all know.
	Hi, Father, you're back.
	I'm certainly not a conservative Catholic, and I'm barely a Catholic, if one at all.
	My wife is.
	Now, what is the Church doing, Father?
	Are they becoming politically correct?
	I mean, what's going on in the Church?
	Well, again, this goes back to the Second Vatican Council.
	There was a document released that was published under the title AA1025, The Memoirs of an Anti-Apostle.
	And it was the account of a nun, who was also a nurse, who was tending a dying priest.
	And he proceeded to tell her His past and what he had done.
	And what came out of this, out of his story, was that he was one of a number of men who were actually Soviet, I guess you could call infiltrators, who their job was to enter the seminaries become priests, move up through the ranks, and to destroy
	the social teaching of the church by first attacking the theology of the church.
	And they were joined in this by a number of Freemasons.
	And as a matter of fact, there were a lot of Freemasonic observers at the Second Vatican
	Council as well.
	So, and if you know anything about church history, the Masonic Lodge has historically been a self-avowed enemy of the Catholic faith.
	And so what emerged from this man's, this priest's story was that he, along with a number of other men, had infiltrated seminaries, had arisen through the ranks, and that they were the ones responsible for the destruction wrought at the Second Vatican Council.
	Which is really the root of the rot that we see today.
	And so really what we see in Bergoglio, otherwise known as Francis I, what you see in Bergoglio is the fruit of that revolution at the Second Vatican Council.
	And what he is talking is patented social Marxism.
	Okay, but here's a point of confusion for me.
	Doesn't the Church have values that could be said to be Somewhat akin to communist values.
	We all know communism doesn't work, but in terms of taking care of everybody, right?
	There are certain values that one could imagine are shared.
	Well, certainly, certainly.
	But the problem is that from the purview of Marxism, That means taking from everyone so that everyone, essentially, is equally poor.
	Right.
	And eventually, when you enforce that through government, what happens is eventually there's no wealth to share.
	That's right.
	Of course that's correct.
	I mean, it doesn't work, but... Right, right.
	And so the church, Christianity, is not against wealth per se.
	But the love of wealth, the love of money.
	And there have been some political ideologies to emerge from traditional Catholic teaching to sort of bridge that gap.
	And one of those is distributism.
	And I can't speak on that topic really.
	I can't speak to it very well because I don't know it well enough to do so.
	But it's a fascinating topic and it essentially says that the best way to help everyone is to
	place property into the hands of as many people as possible.
	And so I guess distributism sort of gets close to socialism.
	It does.
	It does.
	But it avoids the extremes of Marxism.
	I know the love of money is a problem.
	And, you know, I'm doing okay.
	I've got money.
	But it has never been the driving force.
	In fact, I really don't care about it.
	As long as I have enough to live and eat, and my family's okay, that's good enough for me.
	There is a difference, isn't there?
	I mean, if you're doing what you're doing with the sole goal being enriching yourself, then it's the love of money.
	Certainly.
	If money just comes to you as a side benefit of what you're doing, I hope it's not the same thing.
	As you said, we'll take you as an example.
	You don't need to be doing this radio program.
	Not at all.
	There's nothing financial in it for you.
	I'm sure you have a comfortable life at this point.
	I do.
	You're absolutely right.
	I'm doing this only for the love of radio.
	Now I hope that's not a sin.
	No, not at all.
	And the thing is that because you do it, because you love it, you enjoy it, That comes through, and the product is better, I think, than if it was merely done with a view to generating money.
	Money.
	I surely hope that's true.
	Yes.
	I mean, it's true of me.
	I just hope that it's true.
	I mean, if money comes to you anyway, I hope it doesn't doom you.
	Well, unfortunately it's not true of many in the ministry.
	I tell evangelists for a lot of, I mean, come on, there's all the evidence we need.
	Oh, you're right about that.
	You actually had one on your show once.
	I'm sure I have.
	I've had just about everybody.
	Yeah, this particular individual's Quite.
	He and I have clashed.
	I know him on a personal level.
	And I happen to know the man is, he's driven by money.
	And it's a shame.
	You would think that that would be so, well, maybe not so obvious to be individual named.
	Let's not name him.
	Let's let's move on a little bit.
	I do want to talk about exorcism.
	You know, people, Have an image of exorcism which most likely, almost certainly, has been formed by movies, I would say, right?
	Yes.
	Is it like the movies?
	Absolutely not.
	Thought not.
	You're not going to see heads spinning in the head of the pea soup type thing.
	You know, you can see demonstrative Uh, outbursts, and you can sometimes witness objects moving, strange things, such as words forming underneath the skin of the possessed.
	Have you seen that?
	I haven't personally seen that, no.
	I have heard several different voices emerge at the same time.
	At the same time?
	Yes.
	where you would hear two or three different voices speaking at once, saying different things.
	And I've witnessed objects move, but I've not witnessed the skin issue, though there are priests who have, and I do
	know some of them.
	This is going to sound strange to you, but I hope that what you're saying about possession is absolutely true.
	And the reason I hope it's true is because if it is, and if Satan is real, then God is real.
	And that's one of the reasons, by the way, I interviewed the Satanist.
	She just disappointed me terribly by not admitting that she worshipped Satan as though he's not real at all.
	It was, at the time anyway, terribly disappointing for me.
	I actually want to believe in all of this because it leads inevitably back to God.
	Well, I'm glad you're searching.
	That's a positive.
	for, Father? Well, I'm glad you're searching. That's a positive. And, you know, there is much evidence that points
	to the existence of God.
	Now, can we prove the existence of God 100% scientifically?
	No, we cannot.
	Conversely, science cannot disprove the existence of God.
	How about 70%?
	Listen, we've got a break.
	Hold that thought.
	Settle for 65% actually.
	Talking about actual proof, of course, it's going to be very difficult.
	From the high desert and the great American Southwest, this is Midnight in the Desert.
	I'm Art Bell.
	Father Jack Ashcraft is my guest.
	Father, welcome back.
	Yeah, you're taking some heat here.
	in the darkness like parts bill to call the show please dial one nine five two
	call arts that's one nine five two two two five fifty two seventy eight father
	jack ashcraft is my guest father welcome back yeah you're taking some heat here
	Ryan from Wenatchee asks would you ask father Ashcraft to tell you his and tell
	you his academic credentials Where did he get his bachelor's degree and his master's in divinity?
	Why does he care about the current Pope if he doesn't believe that it's proper?
	I attended a private City of Econtus seminary program.
	It was a mentorship program.
	It is not accredited because we were not seeking to achieve academic credentials.
	We were looking for Any state-of-the-contest seminary such as Most Holy Trinity Seminary in Florida, they're not accredited because you're not looking for some sort of academic standing.
	The function of a seminary under traditional Catholic teaching is to produce priests, priests for the church.
	You know, the notion of accreditation and things like that didn't come into the question because we are not academics.
	We are sacramental priests.
	Our bishops are sacramental bishops.
	And we take a traditional Catholic approach to the formation of priests.
	It's a seven-year education.
	You know, you study philosophy, you study theology, sacramentology, eschatology, etc.
	Now, beyond that, I am currently working toward my master's degree at a seminary in Cincinnati, Ohio.
	All right, fine.
	Thank you for the answer.
	On to TJ, who hits us up with really not loving the homophobic bigotry.
	Sigh.
	Years ago, I said on the air, and still maintain today, father, that, you know, if two men or two women want to get married, I don't care.
	I'm not cool with it.
	I don't, you know, how can I put this?
	It just doesn't personally affect me.
	If it makes them happy and they want to get married and head down that road, which is not all joy in every case, then go ahead.
	I take it you take a very conservative approach to it, and I believe in the Bible that is supported, yes?
	Yes, certainly.
	You know, Scripture is very clear about the nature of homosexuality, and it is not homophobia.
	I am not fearful of homosexuals.
	I do not hate homosexuals.
	I care about the homosexual as much as I do about the alcoholic and anybody else.
	I also want to point out that homosexuality is just as much a sin as adultery, heterosexual adultery, or heterosexual fornication.
	They're all wrong.
	I look at them all equally.
	They're all wrong.
	I don't hate the fornicator, the heterosexual adulterer, and I don't hate the homosexual.
	And I think that is one of the problems in the discourse on these topics, is that you have one side who wants to get vitriolic and cast aspersions on the people who hold a Biblical worldview.
	If a gay person comes to you for counsel, do you give it?
	Certainly.
	Absolutely I would.
	I'd give it to anyone who came to me.
	You know, I can't address the constitutional issues involved in the recent marriage thing.
	Well, you don't have to.
	The U.S.
	Supreme Court's doing that for you.
	Yeah.
	So, you know, that out of, you know, I'm not even addressing that.
	The idea, though, that it doesn't affect me, which it might be true for someone who isn't It doesn't have a biblical worldview.
	Or even if you're a moderate Muslim, it doesn't have an Islamic worldview.
	Or a Hindu, you know, a traditional Hindu, you know, also takes the same viewpoint.
	The point is that it does affect us and we're seeing that play out.
	In the courts right now, where we're having people who are running marriage chapels, who are being forced now, told that they have to perform these ceremonies despite the fact that they have a religious objection, which is provided for in the documents of our country.
	But that's not being respected in the courts.
	And so it does affect the church.
	And one of the proponents of gay marriage, I can't remember his name, but there was an interview with him and he said, he was asked, will this affect the churches?
	And he said, well, certainly of necessity it will affect the churches.
	And he said it would probably start on the level of their tax-exempt status.
	So, you know, will it affect the church?
	I think it's very possible that it will, and I think we're seeing that play out.
	But, you know, I don't hate homosexuals, and I'm not afraid of them or fearful of them.
	I've got it.
	And I just find that sort of discourse counterproductive.
	I take it, though, that if a pair came to you and wanted you to perform such a ceremony, you would not do that.
	I cannot do that.
	Cannot do that.
	All right.
	It sounds like there is a lot of trouble ahead, then.
	Or will the church, what do you think the church will officially do?
	Yeah, that's a good question.
	I think, personally, I think the fact that the churches are involved in the tax exemption is a mistake to begin with.
	Really?
	Yes.
	I don't think churches should have been involved in that.
	Part of the reason is that one of the One of the hooks of that tax-exempt status is that churches really cannot legally advocate for any particular political party or candidate.
	Right.
	And, you know, if churches want to be involved in politics, which again, I'm not a big fan of that either, then tax exemption is a mistake beyond that.
	My personal view is that, and I take a very antinicing view of the church.
	I go back to the apostles and the men who knew the apostles and studied directly with them, and I look at what they had to say of the church, and I take their view.
	All right, Father, hold tight.
	We'll be right back.
	Midnight in the desert spans the world.
	To call us from outside the U.S.
	and Canada only, use Skype with a headset mic, if on a computer, and call MITD55.
	That's MITD55.
	Father Jack Ashcroft is my... Ashcraft, actually, is my guest, and, um... I guess I'm getting him confused with Leo, our news guy.
	Not surprising, a lot of you did, too.
	Actually, no relation.
	Civil or vast.
	All right, Father, here we go again.
	Nathan from Austin, Texas asks, could you please ask, Father, if the Catholic Church is corrupt or rotten, does that not give legitimacy to Protestants?
	Are there mistakes in the Bible?
	Women not speaking in church?
	Death?
	We're working on Sunday and so forth.
	I'll try to condense this a bit.
	The first thing you have to understand is that according to the state of a conscious position, there is no corruption in the church.
	The church was infiltrated, the visible institutions were taken over, but the church consists of clergy and laity faithful to the true teachings of the faith.
	Right, but he was speaking to the Vatican one.
	and other traditionalists who reject the changes, who reject the current hierarchy, they are the church.
	Right, but he was speaking to the Vatican one.
	And, well, I mean, the fact that there's corruption there for us proves that it's not the church.
	This doesn't mean there's a defect in scripture or anything like that, and I think if I understand the question correctly, nor does that mean that such things as women not holding the priesthood, etc., are wrong, nor does that follow.
	What you have with the visible institution that people think of as the
	Catholic Church is what we call the Novus Ordo, the New Order Church, and that's a term they used for their
	own liturgy.
	And so it's a wholly different religion. Does it lend credence to Protestantism? No,
	not necessarily. When you consider that, you know, Saint Ivakantos believed that the Church continues
	to exist in them, in their midst.
	their churches and their chapels and with their priests and their lady then
	no it wouldn't lend support to Protestantism at all.
	Protestantism actually came out of... Well okay, but again father he's
	asking about not your church.
	Maybe I can put it that way.
	He's asking about the Vatican's official position on things, and you will come back and say, well, the Vatican is not official because I understand that.
	Yeah, I mean, you can't accept what's coming out of the Vatican, because the Vatican is occupied by non-Catholics.
	Oh, you're going to get a letter.
	I'm sure of it.
	Well, all right.
	What do you know about the ability of somebody like Blanche or anybody on the other side able to... Can a curse really be made and work?
	Well, certainly.
	However, the only way they can have an effect is if the target of that curse is not in a state of sanctifying grace.
	The further they move from Christ and His protection, the more susceptible they are to that sort of an attack.
	Well, maybe it's a comment on the current times, but sorry, it's a target-rich environment.
	Oh, certainly.
	Absolutely.
	And I think there Where there are cases of real curses, you know, you're going to find that, just as you said, that these individuals, these targets, are not in a state of sanctifying grace.
	They're outside that.
	And because of that, there's not much that any priest can do to help them until They get their spiritual lives in order and that sometimes you will even encounter resistance to that from the people who are actually feeling the effects of a curse or feeling the effects of demonic attack.
	They will still push back on you when you tell them, here's the remedy.
	Because it requires something of them.
	Yes.
	And let's be honest, the spirit of the age is, I don't want anything required of me.
	I want to do my own thing.
	So coming in and getting in a little wood booth and having a confession just might not do the trick, totally.
	No, certainly not.
	It requires that you live what you claim to believe.
	You know, you have to put your money where your mouth is, so to speak.
	You can't simply, you know, attend a church.
	You can't simply receive sacraments and go through the motions and expect to be okay.
	It requires more of you.
	There has to be substance, substance of faith, which is demonstrated by actually living the gospel of Christ.
	Alright, so in other words, you really are saying, look, You may be possessed, or you may be under the influence of a curse or something evil, but unless you change, my showing up as a priest and doing whatever I'm going to do isn't going to do the job.
	No, it certainly won't.
	There's a joint effort there in exorcism.
	in any type of spiritual warfare intervention.
	It is a joint effort.
	The priest and the person coming to the priest for that help, they have to work together.
	And if that person is not willing to do what it takes to amend their lives, to get their
	spiritual lives in order, there is nothing any priest can do to help them.
	It's like with perfect possession, and I'm sure Father Martin told you this, there's nothing you can do to help that person.
	Right, they've made their deal.
	Yeah, they have willed themselves in the position they're in.
	and without the active role of their will to reverse that, there's nothing that can be done.
	Yeah, so people are always saying they see times coming of Love.
	you know, the end days, Armageddon as it were, and frankly looking around the world today,
	and maybe it's just, you know, we have short lives, we don't live long, but it does seem
	that even in my lifetime I have seen so much, I'm now 70, and I've seen so much of a
	moral and spiritual decline in the world that it does seem like the end days.
	Oh, I see.
	We have a little internet thing come up, so he can't answer that just yet.
	There he is.
	Father, you heard what I said, right?
	Part of it.
	Okay.
	Also, it's cutting out over there, too, a little bit.
	I said that, you know, I'm 70 years old now.
	I've seen a big spiritual moral decline in the world.
	Even in our own country now, I don't want to talk politics particularly, but I do want to say this.
	We have this guy now, Trump, and he's just wild man.
	Absolute wild man by any current political standards.
	And he is way, way ahead.
	I think that people, a lot of them, thankfully, I guess, are so fed up.
	And I've said this before, I'm going to say it again, that they're virtually Politically speaking, and I'll hold it there, they're ready to burn it all down.
	And that's why Trump is as popular as he is right now.
	I think you're seeing, and it's not just a social condition, I think there's a spiritual condition behind this.
	And it mirrors that which was in Weimar, Germany.
	You know, the same desperation.
	It might be some of the same.
	You're right.
	And it's that same desperation that allows for very masterful manipulators like Hitler and Stalin and people like that to come along and really do some damage.
	You really think we're at that susceptible point?
	I think that we're getting close, if not there.
	Have you really listened to or viewed some of the things people say on these political message boards?
	Oh, yes.
	Oh, absolutely, yes.
	There's this visceral desperation mixed with a lot of really bad information out there.
	Disinformation, I would say.
	And, you know, people are willing Okay.
	I think he just went away again.
	We've got a problem with Skype, and this is kind of abby normal, because generally with Skype, it just stays connected.
	That's the way it is.
	It stays connected.
	But in this case, Father Ashcraft goes away for a moment.
	I get a little notice saying, well, there's a problem with this call.
	Hold on while we try to get the call back, and it will reestablish here in a moment.
	I've never quite seen this.
	occur with Skype before, but the Internet of course is a great connected network
	and things can go wrong all over the place. Alright, father, you're back again.
	I have no idea what's doing that. I was just talking about the interconnected
	network that we have and, you know, it just takes one little thing somewhere in that
	network to go sideways and there you go.
	Alright, let's quickly get into, while we can, jump to your, you've had many
	cases apparently because you talk a lot about exorcism.
	What would you say was your most frightening case?
	Oh, good question.
	The most frightening case, I guess, would be not one that would be demonic at all.
	but one that was brought to me from a television production, and I won't name what the production
	was.
	I don't mind if you want to name it, I don't care.
	Well it came to me from Paranormal State.
	When that program was on.
	They brought me this case that became sort of infamous in their series.
	It was this young lady who they felt was possessed and they brought to me some photographs
	and a synopsis of the case.
	I looked at the photographs and there were scratches on her body, but they weren't anywhere
	she couldn't reach.
	And there was a message in one of them scratched into her torso.
	And after reviewing it, I sent it back to them stating I didn't see anything there.
	It was demonic.
	It looked to me like it was psychological.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	They went ahead and ran with it and performed a, they called it an exorcism.
	It really wasn't, on their TV show of this young lady.
	Subsequently, they went back and did it again.
	Who did the exorcism?
	The first time, I don't recall the gentleman's name.
	He's deceased now.
	I do know that.
	The second time, it was a Novus Ordo priest who admits that he's not an exorcist, but he went up there and tried to do what he could anyway, without really doing any investigation, obviously.
	And at the end of the day, it turned out that I was correct.
	This girl was seeing a psychologist.
	She was on medication, and her involvement with that program apparently caused her family some trouble in the community they live in.
	and and i think that's uh...
	i'd okay i'm not quite onto it and i was about to ask
	and sticking with this because i really want to know uh... i was about to ask
	if that was the the scariest
	that uh... that he's seen uh...
	It apparently was, you know, up to the point he was telling us, wasn't real, right?
	In other words, he had judged it to be Yes, I was wondering about that.
	It sounded like it was not a real case.
	Welcome back.
	I say that's frightening because...
	Yes, I was wondering about that.
	It sounded like it was not a real case.
	Right, because you have this paranormal subculture who they think they have a grasp on these
	things and they don't.
	And what they do is they ignore the psychological, they ignore the environmental, and as a result
	they cause more damage, like they did in this case.
	Just think though.
	I mean...
	Thank you.
	The best thing we can say about this case is that the girl was suffering from some form of depression, as I understand it.
	Let me reword my question.
	What was the most frightening case that you've dealt with that was real?
	Okay.
	I would have to say the case of a young lady who, this was in Kentucky, who was experiencing objects levitating in her home, words appearing on the wall, and not just witnessed by herself, not just hearsay, but witnessed by Several people, including a psychiatrist who was really at a loss as to how it had been produced.
	Sure, if I was a psychiatrist and saw something levitate, I'd be calling you or somebody like you right away.
	Well, you know, even with things like that, you'll find that they're People remain skeptical because there is the role of parapsychology in there.
	It's not unknown for women, especially women going through times of severe stress, to be able to manipulate their environments like that to cause objects to move.
	Especially young teenage girls.
	Yes.
	But what really moved this case beyond the parapsychological were the words appearing on the wall.
	That moved it beyond that.
	So for me, that was scary.
	And not scary in that, oh, I'm running away, but just frightening in the demonstrative nature of the case.
	Did you or anybody else actually Witness the words manifesting on the wall?
	Yes, I did.
	Oh my.
	That'll do it for me, all right.
	Yeah.
	It'll definitely shake you up.
	Can those words be repeated?
	No, no.
	Okay.
	I do have a rule on this show, but I wouldn't like them if I heard them, I take it.
	No, and I wouldn't repeat those words anyway.
	Good.
	Alright, so, in other words, you've encountered the real thing.
	There's no question about it.
	Oh yeah, absolutely.
	You know, I hate to say it again, but I will.
	That actually gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling, because if the one is true, the other has to be true.
	You know, that's insufficient to really say, but I really do mean that.
	I want to ask you about something else.
	Ghosts.
	Can ghosts, in your opinion, be real in the sense that they are residual entities of people who were once alive human beings?
	Well, theologically speaking, you have a variety of different opinions on that.
	You have some who believe that ghosts are the spirits of those in purgatory who are seeking our prayers and so they appear in order to solicit those prayers.
	Stuck in the middle.
	Correct.
	Some others state that ghosts do not appear, that those are purely demonic entities masquerading
	as the spirits of the dead or our dead relatives in order to mislead us into believing things
	that are not true.
	And so, you know, you have both of those viewpoints of the spiritual realm.
	You find that when you get into these topics theologically, you know, there are all these different schools of thought on this, and one has to simply find what they think fits best.
	All right, Father.
	Hold tight.
	We will open the line shortly.
	So, if you've got a call, if you've got a question, or a statement, all I ask is you be... I want you to be polite.
	All right?
	Be polite.
	I'm Art Bell.
	Well this is Midnight in the Desert.
	Want to take a ride from the high deserts and the great American Southwest?
	This is Midnight in the Desert, exclusively on the Dark Matter Digital Network.
	To call the show, dial 1-952-CALL-ART.
	That's 1-952-225-5278.
	That's it.
	Father Jack Ashcraft is my guest.
	And again, I'm going to now give out the phone numbers, and I hope you will join us.
	Actually, you've already joined us, the lines are full.
	Nevertheless, the public line is area code 952-225-5278.
	You can get in on Skype ever so easily.
	If you're in North America, America or Canada, simply enter MITD51.
	That's as in midnight in the desert, MITD.
	It's not case sensitive, 51.
	If you are outside the U.S., anywhere outside the U.S., in the greater wide world, please enter MITD55 into Skype.
	That's MITD55.
	And in those ways, you can call us.
	Now, let me stress this.
	If you get through and you hear audio, if you hear us doing the show, that means you have made it through.
	So hold on.
	Don't hang up.
	If, on the other hand, you ring and it's never answered, ring some more.
	We'll eventually get to you.
	All right, Father Ashcraft, once again, hopefully his Skype holds up.
	It's kind of coming and going.
	I don't know why, but it's a web of a world we live in.
	And again, I ask you to please, just whatever else you do, be polite, because I know you've ignited some tempers out there, Father.
	So, away we go.
	Let's answer a few calls, and I've got other questions as well.
	Let's start, I guess, with Matthew, somewhere or another on Skype.
	Hi, Matthew.
	Hello, Art.
	This is Matthew, the Sunday School teacher, calling from West Virginia.
	Okay.
	I'm just disappointed that this man denies the authority of the Holy See and the false prophet, Pope Francis, but will not accept justification by faith alone.
	But that's not my question.
	Well, let him respond to that.
	Or at least soothe your disappointment.
	Or not.
	Or not.
	Father?
	Well, Scripture says we're... I'm getting a little bit of feedback there.
	Scripture says that we are justified by grace through faith.
	So, I would say that, biblically speaking, you're a little off.
	I know where he's coming from.
	He's familiar, no doubt, with the Epistle of James.
	But this is a theological difference we won't be able to settle on here.
	I do have a question, however.
	If he denies the authority of the Holy See, where does he receive the sacraments from?
	Well, the sacraments don't have to proceed from the authority of the Holy See.
	The sacraments are constructed through any priest who has valid apostolic succession.
	And as long as he follows the proper form, has the proper intention and the proper matter.
	then a sacrament is confected validly.
	And so any priest who is also validly ordained in apostolic concession can do so as long
	as he follows those three guidelines.
	Okay.
	Allentown, Pennsylvania, on the phone.
	You're on with Father Ashcraft.
	Hi Art, this is Johnny from PA.
	Yes sir.
	And I called in when the Satanist was on the other night and my views are obviously oppositional
	I'm in the father corner.
	I'm not going to be oppositional.
	Still challenging, I think, but not oppositional.
	So the first question is in regards to the prophecies of St.
	Malachy.
	According to those prophecies, the way most people interpret them, Benedict was Gloria Eleve.
	We should be on Petrus Romanus, Peter the Roman.
	The supposed prophecies of St.
	Malachy, there's a lot of contention there as to whether they are legitimately so or not.
	Some say they're forgeries.
	wondering what his thoughts are.
	The supposed prophecies of St. Malachy, there's a lot of contention there as to whether they
	are legitimately so or not.
	Some say they're forgeries.
	So I really don't take a position on those particularly, because anything of doubtful
	origin shouldn't really be used as evidence.
	Not to mention, I'm somebody who leans towards Scripture more than extra-biblical prophecy, and so that's where I will keep my eschatology is with Scripture.
	Can I ask one more?
	Yes.
	The other one would be if someone was under demonic oppression, and if I told you my story, you'd probably start laughing.
	If someone was under that, what would you suggest they do?
	And I'll kick the answer off the air.
	Okay.
	Well, without knowing the specific area of oppression, I can't address it well and adequately.
	I would, however, encourage you, if you were experiencing what you believe to be oppression, to examine your life Find out where your weakest point is spiritually and shore that up, because chances are that's where you're being hit.
	Satan always hits people at their weakest point.
	See, that makes sense to me.
	It really does.
	Zachary, on Skype, you're on the air.
	Hello?
	Yes, hello.
	Get close to your microphone, Zachary, or you'll sound like you're in a tunnel.
	Hi.
	I have a question for Jack.
	Go ahead.
	Why haven't you, if you've experienced these demonic oppressions, recorded them?
	Well, he probably has.
	Father, have you recorded or, what's the right word, I guess, evidenced in some way what you've been through?
	Okay, we've lost him, unfortunately, on Skype.
	Sorry about that.
	This is a problem that we normally never experience when doing these kinds of shows.
	I mean, when he is there, this is kind of odd.
	He's absolutely there, and the audio is absolutely perfect, just like he was in the room, and then suddenly it cuts out, and it automatically re-established, and here he is.
	Yeah, to answer that question... Oh, good, you got it.
	Yeah, I want to say first of all that anything that is recorded is only recorded for the bishop, my bishop.
	Right.
	It would never be made public.
	And I think those who do make that sort of thing public are really violating what I think to be a very private matter.
	It causes a lot of problems for families, as in the case that I mentioned earlier.
	Right.
	Father, you were involved Or not involved necessarily, but the film, The Exorcism of Emily Rose, you're suggesting it was a real case or were you involved in it?
	I wasn't involved in the case.
	No, it was it was a case in the 1970s in Germany.
	And the movie is loosely based on on that case.
	And it was a German girl by the name of Annalisa Michael.
	Uh-huh.
	And I did converse back and forth, correspond with Dr. Felici.
	And there he goes again.
	Very annoying to have Skype do this.
	And it may be some expert out there on Skype understands what's going on.
	But I do get a message indicating that his, and there it is, it Disconnect and it shows you know kind of like your cell phone You have a bunch of bars right five red bars, and that's exactly what it's showing five red bars as though There is no internet on his side, which sounds like frankly a loose cable or something father.
	Are you back?
	Yes, I'm here.
	I I can hear you the the the case is a German girl and And I conversed or corresponded with Dr. Felicitas Goodwin, who was an anthropologist who studied the case.
	And unfortunately, it was one of those cases where I tend to agree with the court that the priests were negligent because this young lady did suffer from a form of epilepsy.
	And they did allow her to stop taking her medication during the exorcism.
	That was a huge error.
	But it was one of those rare cases where you have mental illness, or in this case, it's actually a physical illness, epilepsy, attendant to a case of demonic possession.
	She was possessed, but there was negligence involved there as well.
	So, the actual number of possessions, real possessions, is in your opinion low, or simply unknown?
	I think it's unknown, but I think it's certainly lower than the number of claims.
	That's for sure.
	I receive hundreds of claims in a year's time, and there are people that have been trained to investigate those on the temporal level, that is, the
	psychological, the environmental, etc. and I'll forward those cases to those persons who do
	so. And 99% of the cases come back as something quite normative for the human experience.
	Hamilton, Ontario, I believe you're on the air.
	Uh, I I wondered what Father Ashcroft thought about Fatima, because the reason why I'm asking, I find your program extremely interesting in the sense that I've never heard of a Catholic priest that didn't endorse the Vatican, but on the other hand I have friends
	Who are into the Fatima aspect of it, and Fatima, there's a priest in Fort Erie that deals with that, but some of the Catholic people, I live near a cathedral, and they say that what he's doing with Fatima has nothing to do with the Vatican.
	Right, right.
	One thing at a time.
	I can tell you.
	Trust me.
	Okay.
	There are other priests that do not endorse what's going on at the Vatican right now, or what has been going on for some time, and that includes Father Malachi Martin, a very great man indeed.
	Yes, you mentioned him.
	Oh yes, yes, yes, yes.
	His name is Father Martin?
	Yes, he's now passed on, Father Malachi Martin.
	So there are many priests like that.
	The second part of your question, Father?
	He had a question about what I thought about Fatima?
	That's right.
	Yes.
	Well, it's an approved apparition of the church, and so the Catholic faithful are... Endorse it.
	Okay, I think he disappeared again.
	Yes, the answer to your question is yes.
	Okay.
	I mean, I believe in it too, but the thing is is that In other words, the signal I'm getting from you is that just because it may not be endorsed by the Vatican, really doesn't mean anything when it comes to God.
	Um, I would let the Father handle that one, thank you.
	Not me.
	He's temporarily disconnected, Father.
	If you can hear me, you might move your wires around a little bit or something.
	I don't know what's going on.
	You understand what I'm saying, though.
	I do.
	I do.
	That's what I thought all the way along.
	When people tell me... Yeah, he endorses Fatima as the Church does.
	Yeah, and as far as traditional or Catholic priests who don't accept what's going on with
	the Vatican, there are entire societies of priests who don't.
	The Society of St. Pius V.
	I didn't know that.
	The Congregation of Mary Immaculate Queen, CMRI, on and on.
	There are entire sacerdotal societies who are state of the conscious and reject this.
	There are also the Society of St.
	Pius X who are not state of the conscious.
	And they recognize the hierarchy, but they reject what they rightly see as their heretical teachings.
	So, there are a lot of us out there.
	Very interesting.
	I'm going to have to Google that word, Seda Vicatus.
	I've never heard of it, but very interesting is all I can say.
	All right.
	All right.
	Very good.
	Well, we did explain it at the beginning of the program.
	You might want to go back.
	Bedford, Indiana, I think.
	Hi.
	Hey, what's going on, mate?
	Don't allow full names on the air.
	We'll just go with Jason.
	You have a question?
	Yes, I do.
	I am a time traveler.
	Okay.
	How are you?
	Interviewing a Catholic priest.
	What is your question?
	That would be me, yes.
	I'm so glad you are back on the air.
	Thank you.
	You are a life saver.
	No, that would be the father, not me.
	Let me see, let's go here and say, hello, you're on the air.
	Oh, I just wanted to find out if Father Jack has a contact phone number to get a hold of, or an email address.
	Careful, father.
	There's an email address on my website.
	There is an email address on his website, which is what?
	What about a physical address as well?
	No, we're not going to get that out on the air.
	Come on.
	Okay, okay.
	As soon as you cough up your social security number, we'll think about it.
	Okay, right.
	Okay, thank you.
	Yeah, you're very welcome.
	Sheesh.
	People answer, ask for.
	Hello there, North Hollywood, California, I think.
	Oh no, actually this is Larry from Hawaii again.
	Okay, you need to correct your caller ID.
	Okay, I'll do that.
	You may remember me, I was the second to last caller with Blanchon.
	Okay.
	And anyway, my question for the Father is that in regards to this apparent surge and
	incursion of UFOs and ET abductions, what your view is on that, and could it possibly
	be the coming dissection spoke of in New Testament?
	Well, in short, I think that you have several things going on with the UFO and alien abduction
	phenomenon I think you have.
	There are governmental projects going on there that are being mistaken for UFOs.
	I think you also have, in the alien abduction scenario, there is a sub-ROSA level psychological operation going on there.
	Wow.
	And then finally, I think that there are some cases that I would say are demonic.
	All right.
	I'm going to toss one at you.
	Father, I've done a number of, I would call them very, very impressive shows on out-of-body experiences.
	I'm sure you're familiar with the term OBE, right?
	Yes.
	So when that occurs, Father, would it be your view that a person's soul is actually leaving their body or is something else happening?
	Well, I think that what you're looking at there is the spirit leaving the body.
	I think it's a dangerous practice.
	Oh, you do?
	Yes.
	I thought the same thing.
	Yeah, we have had All right, I'm going to remember this forever, because I have a lot of people who talk about OBs.
	Oh, they're wonderful, they say.
	There is a silver cord attached to you that will always bring you back to your body when anything threatening occurs at all.
	And generally people, and I had somebody really who was good with OBEs on recently, and he started out by saying, there is absolutely not a thing in the world dangerous about leaving your body, about doing OBEs.
	And then, a little later in the interview, he proceeded to tell me about two or three dangerous things that actually did happen to him when he left his body.
	So, you're saying it is dangerous.
	Absolutely.
	You know, when you leave your body like that, you create a space that something can fill.
	So the demonic can certainly fill that space.
	Okay, let's go to Skype.
	Jeff, you're on the air with Father Ashcraft.
	Hi.
	Hey Art, it's good to have you back on the air.
	It's awesome.
	Thank you.
	I'll go by the codename Jeff Scepter, Dallas, Texas.
	Okay.
	And my question is, I have had a close friend in the past who, she's Catholic and I'm not Catholic myself.
	Right.
	She started getting into watching a lot of television ministry shows that were strictly
	about prophecy, the end times kind of stuff, strictly focusing on that as far as a religious
	aspect.
	At first it didn't really bother me much, but then she turned really incredibly violent.
	All my friends and stuff said they literally thought she was possessed by the look in her
	eyes and whatnot.
	I'm just wondering, do you have any pointers or anything like that that would stand out
	as far as, I mean you see the movies like Exorcist and stuff like that, and you see
	all these crazy movie drama things, but what do you see on that?
	Well, you know, it varies from person to person.
	There are some typical signs we look for.
	What are those?
	Well, I mean, some of those are speaking a language that they have never studied.
	Right.
	Especially dead languages.
	Knowledge of things that they couldn't know normally.
	things that are secret or hidden, and of course the ability to move objects, things like that.
	There is, and I want to address one of the things he's mentioned here, is this, there
	can be a morbid preoccupation with the end times and with the demonic, and that morbid
	preoccupying itself can be a doorway to demonic activity.
	And it's because there's no balance in spiritual life.
	And there is an entire industry out there in what I call fringe evangelicalism that focuses on this stuff almost entirely.
	And the substance of these people's faith is in the various theories that are proposed and the books that these authors put out.
	You know, month after month.
	And when that's the substance of your faith and it's focused on the demonic and the dark, you know, inevitably that's going to have an effect on you, even if it's just psychological.
	All right.
	Late on a break, so hold on, Father.
	We'll be right back.
	I'm Art Bell.
	Father Ashcraft is my guest.
	We'll be just a moment.
	Best part of life is to feel it's nice And I don't care for much, but I'm not letting go
	I believe there's so much to believe To initiate a dialogue sequence with Art Bell, please
	coordinate your phalanges and call 1952-225-52.
	That's 1952.
	Call Art.
	All right, Father, it's going to be a very short break this time.
	Let's take a, I guess, a quick call.
	What should it be?
	Well, we'll go here.
	We'll go to the phone.
	Hello, you're on with Father Jack Ashcraft.
	Hey, how you doing, Art?
	I'm doing okay, sir.
	What's up?
	Let me, let me start by saying first, great to have you back.
	And then I got a question for Father Ashcraft.
	Proceed.
	Um, I do ghost hunting and I know, am I allowed to say other TV programs on here or not?
	Yes.
	I don't care.
	Okay.
	I do ghost hunting.
	I know he's been involved with, uh, ghost adventures and I'm wondering what his opinion of ghost hunting is.
	Father?
	I dissuade people from doing so.
	I told the people that ghost adventures are the same thing, that they should stop doing
	this, that they weren't dealing with ghosts, and that it was dangerous.
	But of course, when you're making a living at that, you're not going to listen to anything
	I have to say.
	Well, um, how about me?
	I talk about these kinds of things.
	As a matter of fact, I have people on the air who do EVPs.
	In fact, we're about to do a show on EVPs.
	You know what those are, right, Father?
	Yes, yes, of course.
	Discussion of the topic isn't the problem.
	It's when you're out... Okay, it's something, and then you went away.
	I guess we lost him again.
	Yeah, I guess we did.
	So, I took it from what he said when he was there that he doesn't like, he doesn't want to be involved in anything hunting ghosts on TV or otherwise.
	Okay, I'm just curious then, why did he go on the show?
	That's a good question.
	If we had him back, I would ask.
	What did he do on the show, do you recall?
	Uh, he was actually helping with investigations and talking with people, so... Well, maybe after... Whether people... Okay, Father, very quickly, you were on the show, right?
	Yes, I was.
	And... They asked me to help on a case.
	I see.
	Okay, and how did that work out?
	Or is it the one we talked about?
	No, it was a different thing, completely.
	This was just a property, and they asked me to bless the property, which I did, and that includes what's called a minor exorcism.
	And it got marketed as a big exorcism issue.
	Gotcha.
	Well, that's... All right.
	Father, hold on.
	I'm sorry the breaks are so close together, but we've got to squeeze.
	We'll be right back.
	This is Midnight in the Desert.
	I'm Art Bell.
	Coming to you at the speed of light in the darkness.
	This is Midnight in the Desert with Art Bell.
	Now, here's Art.
	Here I am.
	Sorry about the closing breaks, but...
	I thought there was an emergency situation at the network.
	Anyway, Father Ashcraft is here, I hope.
	He's been kind of on and off, but I suspect right now he's on.
	Father?
	Yes.
	Okay, good.
	I wanted to say something, Art.
	Fire away.
	Just a preface before we go any further.
	I know that my answers have been very measured.
	And you can probably see that I am carefully choosing my words and how I answer things.
	And there's a reason for that.
	I have been the target of death threats in the past that have been reported to local police.
	And when I consider that and I consider what Father Martin went through as a result of his candor.
	Sure.
	I have to be measured.
	So please understand that.
	Don't feel like I'm trying to shortchange you.
	You're not shortchanging me.
	Death threats.
	Death threats, why, Father?
	Over what issue?
	Several.
	Mainly my opinion about the Vatican.
	Well, certainly Father Martin held a very similar opinion, and I guess we can imagine what might have happened to him.
	So, I do understand.
	Trust me, I do understand.
	Kurt on Skype, you're on the air with Father.
	Hello?
	Oh, my mute button's on again.
	Sorry about that.
	Don't leave it on when you're calling a radio program.
	I know.
	My goodness gracious, I should have turned mine on.
	Let me turn your thing down here.
	Okay, good.
	Hey, are gay people going to hell?
	What do you believe?
	Tell me.
	Well, I wish he was here to answer.
	He has blinked out on us again.
	He may be hearing us.
	Father, the question was, are gay people going to hell?
	Let me preface this by saying that the fall of humanity had an effect on everyone, every single person in existence.
	That fall did not just have spiritual implications, it was physical.
	We grow old, we get diseases, we die, we get psychological problems, a whole host of things as a result of the fall.
	I tend to view homosexuality, if there is indeed a genetic component, I tend to view it in light of the fall of humanity.
	It is an effect of the fall just like the common cold would be an effect of the fall.
	Now having said that, is a homosexual going to go to hell?
	Not necessarily.
	If the homosexual is not acting on All right.
	the homosexual desires they're doing their best to live the gospel of christ
	than they have is much opportunity to uh... achieve salvation is anybody else alright uh...
	let me stop you cold father and ask you if science
	conclusively proves that homosexuality
	is a genetic
	matter that that uh...
	yes people have desired but it's driven by a genetic predisposition If that is proven absolutely, then wouldn't that affect your opinion?
	It would just, as I said, I would view that as part of the effects of the fall of man.
	In other words, if it was a genetic-driven situation, this is the way they were born, this is the way they are, If that is that, then surely no fair God would doom them to hell.
	Well, the scripture still says that it's sinful.
	It does say that.
	To act on it.
	Yeah, well, it was written a long, long time ago, Father, before genetic science came along by fair margin.
	And taking a strict biblical worldview as I do, We can also look at fornication and adultery being results of the fall as well.
	There's still no less sins just because we're somehow disposed to committing these acts.
	Well, that's fair.
	I mean, you could say a man is driven, some men, a lot of men, Uh, even me, when I was in my twenties, driven to just about chase anything with a skirt.
	Yeah.
	Correct.
	Correct.
	I mean... So I'm as... Anyway, caller, you had another question?
	I don't.
	He's no Father Malachi.
	I'm just gonna end the call now.
	Good bye.
	Good night.
	Good night.
	Alright.
	So he is no Father Malachi.
	He says... He doesn't say he is Father Malachi.
	Nope.
	And, um, and what you're getting is an honest, uh, opinion.
	Whether you like it or not.
	And I, I do understand.
	That, look, we live in a different world these days.
	I do disagree with you on gays, Father, and that's okay.
	I have to live with that disagreement, I guess, but you do understand that in this day and age, you're going to take, and you're gone, so this isn't fair.
	I was going to say, in this day and age, and I'll say it anyway, you're going to take an awful lot of heat.
	for taking that position.
	But I also understand that that position is, I guess, backed up by what is written in the Bible.
	So when you do come back, I think I'm going to ask if everything written in the Bible is to be taken literally.
	And so I'm going to ask that.
	Did you hear my question, Father?
	No, I'm sorry.
	Okay, so is everything written in the Bible to be taken absolutely literally in your view or is it possible that over thousands of years some things that were written just might have been a view of somebody at that time and not the Word of God?
	Well, that's not an option left to a Catholic or any other Christian to say that would be to undermine The inerrancy and inspiration of sacred scripture.
	And if we say that about one portion of scripture, then we have to call into question the entirety of it.
	But man has fallacies, right?
	Man does, certainly.
	Okay, well, these words, I don't know that they all came directly from God.
	They were written and possibly interpreted by man.
	man. Yes?
	Aww. What a poor time to have it blink out.
	I really hate that.
	In other words, some of what was written in the Bible certainly was not the direct word of God.
	Not all of it was a direct word of God.
	Surely some of it has been interpreted, transcribed by man.
	And we know that man is not perfect.
	So you would take every word in the Bible as literal, Father, right?
	I think to use the term literal is a mistake.
	We take the viewpoint of Scripture, as the Church always has, that it is divinely inspired in its original autographs, and that God guided the authors to write what was in His will for man to know about His will, His person, and His plan, and that while He allowed man to use the language that was common to man at that time, That the information contained therein is inerrant and infallible, and that is Orthodox Christian teaching across the board.
	That's not just me.
	That is Christianity across the world, Orthodox Christianity.
	I guess.
	You know, that is where I will differ with you as well.
	I just can't believe that it could be that infallible, and I can't have faith that it is that infallible, and that is my sin, I guess.
	Mr. Bell, I just wanted to say it's an honor.
	here with father ashcraft hello there you are okay
	yes sir mister bell i just wanted to say it's an honor i uh... used to listen to you when i was uh... very young
	in uh... nineteen ninety
	seven through nineteen ninety nine i heard your interview with uh... father
	malachi and uh... i was barely graduating from high school I am now 34 years old, and you are a legend.
	Thank you.
	My mother's been listening to you for... Okay, sir.
	Please, I appreciate the greetings, but we have little time, and if you have a question for the Father, I'd appreciate it.
	Yes, sir.
	Father Ashcroft, what I have to ask is this one simple situation.
	God gave us the ability to have free will.
	He gave us the ability to think for ourselves and do what we want to do and have the ability to be as good as we want to be or as sinful as we want to be.
	And from what I was told by one very intelligent minister that I ran across in my lifetime, I was told that the only way that he can truly do that was to remove himself And remove all evidence of himself, of his existence, to be able to give us the ability to have free will.
	Because if we were to look up in the sky, it would be like a police officer looking down at us saying, yes, you've got to do what you have to do because I'm watching you.
	If he had the ability to do that, and if he truly removed himself from our lives so that we had the ability to have free will, Then why are the Satanists and the very religious people trying to use the basis of a book and everything, trying to scare us into doing the right thing, when He alone gave us the ability to create our own decisions as we see fit, and to leave it up to us to be a good person or not.
	All right, thank you.
	Father?
	Okay, first thing is that, yes, we were given free will.
	However, from the very first, man abused that ability to use that free will wisely, prudently, by violating God's commandments in the Garden.
	To suggest that he hid himself, though, is not biblical.
	And you won't find that in Scripture, and you won't find that in the teachings of the Church anywhere.
	As a matter of fact, the Apostle Paul tells us that he has made himself known in the things he created.
	And as Paul says there, he says, so speaking of those who don't believe, he says, so they are without excuse.
	in their disbelief.
	God has made a witness of himself in a multitude of ways and the primary way is in the created world and we can know God exists by the things he created.
	Of course that gets us into a whole new It does.
	Evolution, etc.
	One I should have started on much earlier.
	Yeah, we don't really even have the time to get into that adequately.
	Well, this is why God creates more radio time.
	And, you know, we'll do another show on that.
	I just wanted to say, on that issue of evolution, just really quickly, is that macroevolution...
	That's where he got cut off.
	Macro evolution.
	I really do want to hear what he has to say on that subject.
	So I will sit here and wait until the very tricky internet allows the father back on.
	Macro evolution.
	All right, father, you're back.
	The last words I heard were macro evolution.
	Oh, I'm sorry.
	Yeah, macroevolution violates some scientific laws in itself.
	One of those being the law of biogenesis.
	There he goes again.
	You know, I think that other church is at work here.
	Something's going on, that's for sure.
	This is very unusual.
	Not sure exactly what in the internet could possibly be doing this unless his provider is going on and off.
	Or perhaps his cable at the back of the laptop or whatever he's using is a little bit whacked out.
	And it's too bad because we're right at the end of the show.
	Father?
	Yes.
	We've got time.
	I heard macroevolution.
	Okay.
	The last thing I heard.
	I apologize.
	I apologize for these jobs.
	I don't know what's going on with this.
	Macroevolution violates scientific laws.
	The very first one that it violates is the law of biogenesis.
	And the law of biogenesis tells us that life comes from life.
	Science has no evidence of life coming from nothing.
	Essentially, evolution must be taken on faith, because it cannot prove its beginning point whatsoever.
	Evolution is essentially a religion that relies on scientific language for its substance, but it has no real substance in and of itself.
	All right, that is going to take another show to properly digest.
	We could talk a great deal about this.
	Do you believe, Father, just sort of at the end of the program here, that God, and I'm sure you do, created the world as suggested in Genesis in a matter of days?
	I do.
	I take a very literal approach to the Genesis account of creation.
	I believe that God created everything that exists Just as it says in Genesis.
	I am in complete agreement with the work of an organization called Answers in Genesis, which you might be familiar with.
	Ken Ham would be an excellent person to talk to sometime if you have the opportunity.
	And so all the evidence of evolution is what?
	Well, there is no evidence of macro-evolution.
	I would not argue micro-evolution, nor would any other creationist.
	But there is no evidence of macro-evolution.
	That's where we have a contention.
	Well, despite that lack of evidence, if I can see that point, that still doesn't mean that the larger evolution that science talks of is not real.
	Well, if you remove macro-evolution... Then you take it all away?
	The evolution of man.
	Oh boy, do we need more time.
	Father, I'm sorry, we're out of time.
	We are going to look into your computer problems, or you are, or he will, and then we'll do this again, I guarantee.
	Father, thank you.
	God bless, goodnight.
	Goodnight.
	Not enough, not enough time.
	Absolutely fascinating topics, no question about that.
	From the high desert and the great American southwest.

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