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Aug. 4, 2015 - Art Bell

02:36:47

Art Bell MITD - Jay Weidner Stanton Friedman

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31:18

jay weidner

43:34

leo ashcraft

11:56

stanton friedman

38:42

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Speaker	Time	Text
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you are in the world.
		Every square inch of it covered by this program.
		Midnight in the desert.
		I'm Mark Bell, and it is a strange-looking night in the desert tonight.
		All right, for the program, there are only two rules.
		And I think I'll do it backwards.
		One caller per show, and no bad language.
		Many of you.
		That's it.
		Our rules are simple.
		No bad language.
		Don't need it.
		Only one call per show.
		I want to thank everybody as usual.
		Tell us.
		The incredible sound we've got.
		Thank you, Joe Talbot.
		Tell us.
		I'm telling you guys, if you haven't tried earbuds yet, I keep getting these messages from people who say, you know, I finally took your advice.
		I haven't tried earbuds.
		And oh my God.
		It's that good, really, honestly.
		He's Roland, my webmaster forever.
		My new producer, Heather Wade.
		All of you who listen to the Bell Gab website.
		People who love Art Bell.
		Midnight in Desert.
		These are all sites that sort of chat about the show to one degree or with some language or another.
		The Stream Guys who get it to you.
		LV.net, who gets it to StreamGuys.
		I can't think of a better way to put it.
		And, of course, our sales guy, Peter Everhart.
		All right, a couple of items, and then off to our show tonight, which should be something with the Honorable Jay Wadner.
		And of course, our sales guy, Peter Everhart.
		All right, a couple of items, and then off to our show tonight, which should be something with the Honorable Jay Wadner and Dr. Friedman.
		We're going to be talking about the moon.
		Jay believes that all the photography taken of, you know, what we easily said, the greatest accomplishment of mankind to date, walking on the moon, right?
		He thinks all of it was photographed.
		And it's all false.
		And so we'll talk about that and other things, but that for sure.
		A toxic, this should be at the head of the news.
		It's at the end of the news.
		A toxic algae bloom in warm water from California to Alaska.
		That's a big blob, folks.
		A vast bloom of very toxic algae off the West Coast is denser, more widespread and deeper than scientists feared even, folks.
		A vast bloom of very toxic algae off the West Coast is denser, more widespread and deeper than scientists feared even weeks ago.
		According to surveyors aboard a National Oceanic Atmospheric Administration research vessel, this coastal ribbon of microscopic algae up to 40 miles wide, and get this, 650 feet deep in coastal areas, is flourishing amid unusually warm Pacific Ocean temperatures.
		Now stretches from California to Alaska.
		It shut down lucrative fisheries.
		No more shellfishing.
		This is serious stuff, and it's part of our changing planet.
		While the debate field is set for Thursday, Trump and Bush are in, Centorium and Pirina out.
		Donald Trump has scored the top spot for Thursday night's leadoff debate of the 2016 presidential race, joined by former Florida Governor Jeff Bush, Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker, and seven other Republican contenders.
		And for those of you who think that I played Coming to America and actually was dedicating it in some loving way last night, well, you're all wet.
		That was tongue-in-cheek, folks, all the way.
		Only one more item, and then off to our guests.
		And this one, you better pay attention to.
		I want you to go to artbill.com.
		I know you're going to think, I'm kidding, I'm not.
		The fabled Bishopville, South Carolina swamp creature known as, sorry, Lizard Man appears to have surfaced once again Sunday afternoon.
		We've got pictures.
		Sarah, a Sumter woman, who says she went to church with a friend Sunday morning, stepped out of the sanctuary to see Lizard Afternoon.
		We've got pictures.
		Sarah, a Sumpter woman, who says she went to church with a friend Sunday morning, stepped out of the sanctuary to see Lizard Man running along the tree line.
	So she did what anybody else would do if you weren't in shock, took a picture with her phone.
	She claims, quote, my hand to God, I'm not making this up, end quote, wrote in an email to the ABC News 4 Newsroom, very excited.
	Says they were about a mile or so from Scrape, Oregon, Washington Swamp, Scrape, Oregon, Washington, yeah, not Washington, Scrape, Oregon Swamp, the site or ore swamp, the site of a similar spotting of what also may have been a lizard man back in May.
	A man who asked not to be identified submitted a short video, get this, of what he thought was the lizard man on Monday morning.
	Said he took the video in May while coon hunting, but kept its existence quiet until he saw reports of lizard man outside of a church.
	He said, I saw your lizard man story.
	That gave me the courage to send you the video.
	It's quiet until he saw reports of lizard man outside of a church.
	He said, I saw your lizard man story.
	That gave me the courage to send you the video.
	The man wrote, though my wife believes me that it's real, she said she'd be embarrassed that everybody's going to think I'm a loon.
	So I kept it secret.
	The man said he took the video in Skate or Swamp just off Camden Highway in Bishopville, wherever that is.
	In the 20-minute video, 20-second video, the photographer ducks behind a tree and you can see a dark figure with what appears to be a long tail walking about 30 or 40 yards away.
	The video stops as the figure appears to turn toward the camera.
	And I might add that the cameraman does what I would have done.
	He gets behind the tree and then ducks down, still trying to get what he can.
	And then there's a still photograph, which is quite good, of the lizard guy.
	Now, maybe it's his guy in a suit, but we were talking about this last night.
	And it seems to me the last thing you would want to do is put on a giant lizard suit and go walking around the woods.
	You know, where there are hunters, right?
	You just wouldn't do that.
	You're going to get shot.
	That's what's going to happen.
	So this may be the real thing.
	Make sure you see the still photograph because it is quite graphic.
	Okay, so once again, just so that you listen to the words and know that I wasn't actually dedicating this to Donald Trump.
	It was tongue-in-cheek.
	It was actually about everybody coming to America.
	If you listen to the words, it's rather plain, actually.
	I say, nevertheless, Thursday's debate is going to be worth the watch.
	Worth the price, if you listen to the words, it's rather plain, actually.
	I say, nevertheless, Thursday's debate is going to be worth the watch.
	Worth the price of admission.
	I have no idea what's going to happen.
	Anyway, listen a little bit, if you would, to the words, and understand that I was trying to imply that the Donald or no Donald, baby, were America and they're coming.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's it, Keith.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let it roll.
unidentified		We're traveling far, without a home, not without a star.
		Free, only one will be free.
		Take her close, hang on to your dreams.
		On the boats and on the planes, coming to America.
		Never looking back again, coming to America.
		Oh, you're going to see the sun's far away.
		What's happening in the light today?
		The eye of the storm.
		The eye of the storm.
		All the time.
		When you're in the shining place.
		The End
		The End Get my medicine, cause you're the gray of the lonely one.
		Want to take a ride from the high desert and the great American Southwest?
		This is Midnight in the Desert, exclusively on the Dark Matter Digital Network.
		To call the show, dial 1-952-CALL ART.
		That's 1-952-225-5278.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a beautiful night.
		Kind of strange, but beautiful in the desert.
		Hi, everybody.
		Away we go.
		Here we go.
		Stanton Friedman, Dr. Friedman, received his BSc and MSc degrees in physics from the University of Chicago in 1955 and 6.
		He was employed for 14 years as a nuclear physicist by GE, GM, Westinghouse, TRW Systems, Aerojet, General Nucleonics, wow, and McDonnell Douglas working in highly advanced,
		classified, eventually canceled programs like nuclear aircraft fission and fusion rockets and various compact nuclear power plants for space and terrestrial applications.
		Now he is joined by Jay Widner.
		Widener is a writer.
		He's a filmmaker, called by Wired magazine an authority on the Hermetic and alchemic traditions.
		Widener has authored two books and produced over 25 documentaries.
		He is currently producing and programming for Guillaume TV.
		I think that's the way it's said, Guillaume TV.
		He just received his second feature film, or just released it rather, The Last Avatar, a cool name, on Vimeo for a bunch of glowing reviews.
		He's done very well.
		So let's bring them both on together and say, I guess, first, Stanton, welcome to the program.
		My God, it's been forever.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		It's been a long time, and please don't call me doctor because I don't have a doctorate, and somebody will give me a hard time.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, when you're a nuclear physicist, it just sort of seems like you ought to be doctor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		That would be nice.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Stanton.
		Stanton, it is.
		Anyway, it's great to have you back.
		It's been really a long time, hasn't it?
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		It has been a long time, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Too long.
		Too long is right.
		Now, Jay Widener, Stanton, you're a course up in, I don't know, up north somewhere, right?
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		Well, east.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada, 73 miles east of beautiful downtown Holton, Maine, at the end of I-95 is Holton.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, that's east and north.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Jay Widener, welcome to the program.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Hey, thanks for inviting me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've never had you on, so this is a first, and we're happy to have you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you located?
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Boulder, Colorado.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boulder, Colorado.
unidentified		Oh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		So we're all separated pretty widely here, actually.
		All right, so let's get right to this.
		To me, our going to the moon is America's crowning achievement.
		It's the crowning achievement of the world so far, really, in my opinion.
		Would either one of you disagree with that?
unidentified		No.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		No.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, see, we start with agreement.
		Now let's bust it up.
		Jay, I know you believe that we may have gone to the moon.
		You're not sure, I guess, right?
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Well, I can't say, but I mean, I have sources who've told me that we've been to the moon many times.
unidentified		Okay.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Many times.
		Yeah, my premise is that the space program is much further advanced than they were letting us in on.
		And that Kennedy knew that Kennedy was shown in 1961 some of the very advanced technologies that they'd gotten from the Germans.
		And we know this from an FBI document where Marilyn Monroe told Dorothy Kilgallen that she had seen the alien stuff.
		And I believe that John made his speech about going to the moon, John F. Kennedy, it was in order to force, he knew that standard rocket technology would not do the job, at least not in the time period that he put forth.
		And so he knew that they had very advanced technologies.
		And I believe he made that speech right after he saw the technology in order to force that technology out into the open.
		But they had other plans.
		And so what they did was, and this is a newly released document just the last couple months, in 1965, in June 1965, the U.S. Information Agency began looking at film directors, the top six film directors in the world for some reason.
		And one of them was Stanley Kubrick.
		And he was not a big director in June of 1965.
		He'd just done Doctor Strange Lab, which did all right, but he'd never really had a breakout film, not until 2001 Space Odyssey.
		So I believe, and also I'll say this, of all the filmmakers in his time period, the only one that actually understood the technical aspects of filmmaking was Stanley Kubrick.
		He knew how to shoot, he knew how to edit, he knew how to light, he knew how to do everything.
		Whereas somebody like Billy Wilder was more of a theater director and didn't really understand the technical mechanics involved in making films.
		He had other people that did that.
		Only Kubrick in his time was the consummate filmmaker and understood all aspects of filmmaking.
		And he would be the guy that you would choose if you were going to fake this.
		Now, why would you fake it?
		And the answer is, well, one, national security reasons.
		You don't want the Soviet Union to see what you got.
		Two, what if something goes wrong?
		Do you really want the whole world watching two astronauts dying on the surface of the moon?
		All they would have had to do was clip a rock, and that thing would have tumbled and broke, and it could never have been repaired.
		And also, they didn't want people to see some of the artifacts that are all over the moon.
		And so they hired Stanley Kubrick.
		He used 2001 Space Odyssey as a cover and also as a research and development in how to do the faking.
		They hired Stanley Kubrick.
		He used 2001 Space Odyssey as a cover and also as a research and development in how to do the faking.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can I stop you for a second, please?
		If I was listening carefully, you're suggesting that the rocketry that we had at that time, the president knew, Kennedy knew, would not do the job.
		You did say that, right?
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So that would mean then that the Saturn V that we saw lift off that took men to the moon, that was wrong.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It wasn't real.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, just a few years before the Saturn V was finished, Werner von Braun told CBS, I believe it was, that the rocket would have to be the size of the Empire State Building.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it was pretty big.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Well, it wasn't the size of the Empire State Building.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, but all I'm asking is a straight-out question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Saturn V that we saw lifting men ultimately to the moon, that was fake.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		It was a real rocket, and it really went off and everything, but the Saturn V that we saw lifting men ultimately to the moon, that was fake.
		It was a real rocket, and it really went off and everything, but Well, I don't know where they went.
		I'm not going to speculate on where they went.
		All I can speculate on, all I can do is not speculate and tell you that, you know, about the filming techniques and also Stan Lee's confession in The Shining.
		The entire thing.
unidentified		All right, I don't know about that, but let's get it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, I'll have to like it in a bit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The stuff we took on the moon, the photography on the moon, that was all fake.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Yep, it was all fake.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		It was all done.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The stuff we took on the moon, the photography on the moon, that was all fake.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Yep, it was all fake.
		It was all done in a studio using a technique called front screen projection, which is a hardly anybody today understands what front screen projection is.
		Fortunately, I worked with it 30 years ago when I worked in Hollywood, and I know very well the fingerprints that front screen projection leaves behind, and every single Apollo image has the telltale fingerprints of front-screen projection.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Stampton, feel free to jump in anywhere here.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, I think I'm certainly in disagreement with a good chunk of that.
		I am not a filmmaker, and I am not going to pretend to be one.
		But there are several different questions involved here.
		A good chunk of that.
		I am not a filmmaker, and I am not going to pretend to be one.
		But there are several different questions involved here.
		One is technology.
		There's no question.
		My mantra is progress comes from doing things differently in an unpredictable way.
		And certainly when Kennedy made that speech, we hadn't yet built a big enough rocket.
		We hadn't spent the money.
		And one of the key things here is that there are a lot of stories going around about German technology, some of which I think are straight baloney.
		Partly because Hitler wasn't a nice guy.
		If he had figured out all this...
		I've been saying that for a long time.
		But if Hitler's people had figured out how to make stuff like that, he would have used it.
		He wasn't a nice guy.
		He said, well, we don't want to give a hard time to these nice guys over across the water.
		Not at all.
		He'd have used it.
		And so it's very hard to separate out the mythology.
		And I think there's a key point here that I didn't really find out until yesterday.
		And that is that I have a friend who had business dealings with the people at NASA Houston.
		And he was admiring some of the pictures that were around the waiting room, so to speak.
		And they made clear to him that, well, most of that talent isn't from what we got on the moon.
		It's what we did to it after we got the information back.
		And then it struck me that, you know, I'm old enough to know how much technology has improved in our working lifespan.
		You know, compared today's computers with what we had in the 60s and early 70s.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're saying they did touch up.
		You're saying what?
		Touch-up?
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, enhancement, what do you want to call it?
		Compressing and all the technological stuff that we do today.
		It's very much fancier, if you want to put it that way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		You know, and we take it for granted.
		The kids don't understand when I tell them, hey, I wasn't allowed to touch a computer when I was working in industry.
		What do you mean?
		Well, you filled out an input data sheet.
		Somebody key punched cards.
		And a girl went with a big reel of tape and the deck of cards up to the computer facility that you weren't allowed anywhere near, which used a tremendous amount of air conditioning equipment because it was vacuum tubes and stuff like that.
		And the next day or two, you got back output.
		But you didn't touch the computer.
		Come on, that's specialists.
		So what I'm saying is that whole world has changed enormously.
		Call it Moore's Law or whatever you want to call it.
		But the capability of straight photography, if you will, funny way to put it, has changed drastically.
		And remember, the last Apollo flight was, what, 1972.
		Can you imagine how much things have changed since then?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can, but there's a basic thing that we're working with here.
		One of you is saying these pictures are all fake.
		And Stanton, you seem to be saying, well, maybe they're touched up a little bit, but they're the real thing taken on the moon.
		Well, even a lot.
		It's a pretty damn big deal, in my opinion.
		Either those are real photographs of what we did that changed the world, or they're not.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		They're not.
		They are.
		If you look at every art, if you go to any Apollo site where they have all the photographs, go to the photographs and begin looking, and you will see a telltale break in the horizon behind the astronauts.
		It's in every shot.
		The grain on the ground changes.
		It's a direct straight line right behind it.
		And you can see the granularity of the surface of the ground changes in every shot.
		That is a fingerprint, telltale fingerprint of the use of front-screen projection.
		He perfected it in the eight scenes in 2001 of Space Odyssey, which were all shot in a studio.
		Everybody in Hollywood agrees that nobody could do front-screen projection like Stanley Kubrick.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Jay, I'm not a photographic expert, but what about what Stanton said?
		What about, okay, I'll take that from you.
		What about what Stanton said?
		What if that is an indication of somebody who has enhanced or done a little something with the photographs?
		Doesn't mean they're totally fake.
		It means perhaps they've been upgraded.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so the way that front screen works.
		I like that.
		The way that front screen projection works is you have a stage and then you have a screen that's behind the actors or the astronauts, and then you project an image that is front screen, not rear screen.
		Your rear screen is what they used to use in movies when they were driving the car and you'd see the streets going by in the window.
		It always looked a little fake and a little off.
		And Kubrick hated it.
		He just hated rear screen projection, and he perfected front screen projection because you don't get that loss of about a half an F-stop in the background.
		Everything stays the same luminescence.
		And so he perfected it.
		And the saying is, is that every single scene in 2001 that uses front screen projection has this telltale line between the stage and the screen.
		And every single Apollo photograph also has the telltale line between the stage and the screen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So to you, that means it's all fake?
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it is all fake.
		If you take the astronauts bouncing around on the moon and you just put them in a video editing thing and you speed them up by about 40%, they're walking around regular.
		They're obviously being shot in slow motion.
		Now, here's the thing.
		Kubrick could not fake, in 2001, he could not figure out how to fake slow motion very well, so he shot all the slow motion scenes in slow motion all the low gravity scenes in slow motion because he couldn't really figure out what zero-G would look like.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, can you answer this for me?
		Why would they fake it?
		If we actually, and you admit we might have gone to the moon, if we did go to the moon, then why fake the photography?
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Because of several reasons.
		One, we didn't want the Soviets to see anything that we have or had.
		Two, if something went wrong, and we had two astronauts dying in front of the entire world on the moon from exposure, that would be very, very, very bad.
		Nixon was president.
		He would never allow that to happen.
		And, you know, they just didn't, they were putting all of the money, I believe they were putting all of those billions of dollars, 30, 40 billion dollars, into secret space program black op projects.
		Everybody that was working at NASA was really working.
		They were really building things that were being used.
		Everything was real, but they decided that they would just show the fake, and that way they wouldn't have to show the real equipment that they really had.
		And this is not rash speculation.
		I mean, we have not gone anywhere, hardly at all.
		You know, in all these years, we're still driving around in automobiles that use a combustion engine from 100 years ago.
		There is a glass ceiling.
		Ben Rich of Skunk Works right before he died, he told everybody at this meeting that they were 50 to 70 years ahead of conventional technologies.
		This was 10 years ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, hold tight.
		We're at a breakpoint.
		Stanton, you get it when we come back.
		I guess you've heard what he's got to say, and I've got more questions.
		This is Midnight in the Desert.
		I'm Art Bell, rocking the night away.
unidentified		When you walked into the room, there was a doo-doo in the back.
		I was captured by the bad, but I could not get the bad.
		Now I stay here helping for Dark Matter News.
leo ashcraft ▲ ● ▼		I'm Leo Ashcraft.
		In the densely populated areas of New York City, one would never expect to find a tranquil, albeit creepy, sanctuary with a population of zero.
		Once populated, complete with a hospital, tennis courts, utilities, every modern comfort, this area is now completely abandoned.
		How could there be anything, especially an island, that is completely abandoned in New York City?
		The island is called North Brother Island.
		It is located between Queens and the Bronx.
		One Reddit user came across the island in 2012 while kayaking with a friend from Connecticut to New York.
		The pictures he took of the abandoned island near New York City are absolutely amazing.
		The island was developed in 1885.
		It was originally used to build a hospital to quarantine and treat people suffering from smallpox and typhoid fever.
		In the 1950s, it was turned into a rehabilitation center for patients who were addicted to drugs such as heroin.
		The entire island has been abandoned since 1963.
		After the city closed down the hospitals, they tried to sell the island to private investors in the 70s, but the cost of construction, transportation to the island, installing a sewage system, and the noise from LaGuardia Airport discouraged anyone from buying it.
		In the 80s, they tried to build a prison on the island, but scrapped the plan because it was cheaper to build in upstate New York.
		Would you be willing to wander this abandoned island?
		You can do it safely by viewing the many images at darkmatternews.com.
		The head of Iran's Cultural Heritage and Tourism Organization believes that in addition to economic sanctions, the West is launching another kind of soft war on the Islamic Republic.
		Speaking at a ceremony to introduce the nation's new meteorological department chief, Hassan Mousavi, he said that he was suspicious about the drought in the southern part of the country.
		He went on to accuse the West of using technology to influence the nation's climate, saying sandstorms, droughts, and other extreme weather were the result of an unspecified method of war.
		Last year, Iranian President Mohammad Ahmad Janadad accused Western countries of devising plans to cause drought in Iran.
		And Hassan Masavi said, European countries are using special equipment to force clouts to dump water on their own continents.
		Last night on Dark Matter News, we reported the sad news of the savage murder of the traveling robot known as Hitchbot.
		Hitchbot was traveling in Philadelphia after safely touring Canada, Germany, and the Netherlands.
		Today, footage of what is claimed to be the final moments of the traveling robot Hitchbot has been released.
		But there are suspicions of a cruel prank.
		Popular local vlogger Jesse Wellens, who was among the last people to see Hitchbot alive on Saturday, together with another vlogger, Ed Vassmaster, Claimed Monday that he had acquired footage of the attack.
		Hitchbot, which was designed as a social experiment project to see if humans can empathize with a helpless, child-sized machine that needed their help to get around, was found decapitated last Saturday after a brutal attack in Philadelphia.
		The video uploaded to Snapchat shows a man in a backwards hat in a Philadelphia Eagles jersey, identifying him as number 12, Randall Cunningham, a quarterback for the NFL team in the 1980s and early 90s.
		The video shows someone having ripped off the robot's arm and stomping on something obstructed from the view twice.
		No motive for the attack was apparent from the footage.
		There is speculation that the video may have been made by Wellens himself as a prank.
		Bassmaster, who was with Wellens during the encounter, often wears an oversized number 12 Philadelphia Eagles jersey while acting as an alter ego character.
		Hitchbot was created by Canadian researchers Professor Frank Zeller from Ryerson University.
		It relied on its goofy appearance and limited means of communications powered by a special computer program to steal rides from humans.
		He sold plenty of hearts too along the way.
		Check out DarkMatterNews.com for a look at the videos in question and decide for yourself, fake or prank.
		I'm Leo Ashraf for Dark Matter News.
unidentified		Dark Matter News
		Dark Matter News Wanna take a ride?
		Your conductor, Art Bell, will punch your ticket.
		When you call 1-952, call ART.
		That's 1-92-225-5278.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll punch your ticket.
		All right, don't call yet.
		We have a kind of a debate underway.
		Jay Widener.
unidentified		1-92-225-5278.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll punch your ticket.
		All right.
		Don't call yet.
		We have a kind of a debate underway.
		Jay Widener, who's a film expert, says that everything we saw on the moon, everything was fake.
		And we've got Sentin Friedman, a nuclear physicist and science guy for a long time.
		And there was much said, Stanton, about why we did it.
		And Jay Widener believes we did it because we were afraid of what failure would look like.
		I think that's a fair...
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's exactly it.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		Stanton?
		I think, remember, we lost three guys on the pad.
		Three guys died, and Chrissim and White, and I forget the name of the third one.
		Should do better, but it's late at night here.
		I think that we're leaving.
		I do have a question that maybe Jay can answer that's relevant here.
		The footage that you see on all these websites, supposedly from the Apollo missions, is that from film brought back by the astronauts, or was it radio transmission of images?
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Well, the video, which is very crappy quality, is broadcast from the moon.
		There's a four-second delay.
		And NASA then recorded over those two-inch videotapes.
		So that footage is all missing and gone now.
		They didn't have enough money, so they reused the two-inch videotape reels and shot other stuff over it.
		So we have none of the original footage is available.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, I actually heard that.
		I actually heard that, and it's unbelievable to me.
		How could we possibly do that?
		Have you heard that, Stanton?
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I have.
		And people change, and there have been a lot of dumb things done in the world.
		On one of the space missions, somebody used metric or not metric.
unidentified		Things like mistakes happen.
		That's good.
		But, okay, so we're not talking about...
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Let me point out something.
		Thank you.
		Let me point out something that's very important here that I haven't ever really said in public before.
		If you take a long-term film production, like say Lord of the Rings, you'll notice, if you're an astute film watcher, you'll notice that the production values get better with each film.
		By the time the third film goes out, everybody who's been working together for like three or four years is all humming together, the well-oiled machine, and the production values are by the third film skyrocketed, actually, over the first film.
		In every way.
		You can see the same exact thing in the Apollo footage.
		First, you have Apollo 11, which is they're just shot against a black background.
		There's no mountains, there's nothing.
		Then Apollo 12, they conveniently point the camera at the sun in the first few seconds that they land on the moon, destroying the camera so we have no footage.
		Apollo 13, again, it goes awry and we have no footage from that because they never landed.
		Apollo 14, now the production values have drastically improved in the two years between 11 and 14.
		15, again, a huge leap in production values.
		16 again, and 17 is just spectacular.
		I mean, the production values in 17 are just amazing.
		Each mission, the mountains are getting more complicated.
		Everything is getting more complicated because the crew is learning how to do things.
		They're learning how to work together, how to make the thing work and function better as far as the market.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And by crew, you mean the crew on the ground faking all this, right?
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they're learning how to do it.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		And you can see the crew that is scattering.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		Signals back.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm not talking about that I'm talking about the moon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold on.
unidentified		Let's stand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Speak.
unidentified		Go ahead, Sam.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm just trying to sort out the signals back.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		I'm not talking about that I'm talking about the moon.
unidentified		Hold on.
unidentified		Let's stand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Speak.
unidentified		Go ahead, Sam.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm just trying to sort out.
		I started off by saying that technology is incredibly advanced over the years.
		You're saying they didn't get any better at transmitting the signals and better systems, better equipment, and all the rest of that?
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Not really.
		That's not what I'm talking about.
		I'm talking about the lighting.
		I'm talking about the photography.
		I'm talking about the sets.
		I'm talking about the general production values that you're talking about.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		But you're also saying, I think you're saying, aren't you, that all of the astronauts who are supposedly on the moon cavorting for the cameras are lying.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, that's a really good point.
		I will bring up two points which are very important in response to that.
		First off, Buzz Aldrin wrote a book when he got back called Return from the Moon.
		And in that book, he reports, and you can read the book, you can get it on Amazon, he says that on the one-year anniversary on July 20th, 1970, he was in Vegas at a big celebration for the one-year anniversary, and he stood up in front of a crowd for really the first time.
		And a reporter said to him, hey, Buzz, tell us what it was like, what it was really like to be on the moon.
		And I'll paraphrase what Buzz says.
		He says, my stomach began to become nauseated.
		I got a gigantic headache.
		I could not speak.
		I started shaking uncontrollably.
		My wife had to take me into the alley where I shook for a half hour.
		I simply could not answer the question.
		Now, I will redirect you all to a Stanley Kubrick film called A Clockwork Orange, in which people were put in front of movies, given drugs, and every time that they would have a thought about something, they would get sick.
		Okay, that's the plot of Stanley Kubrick's movie after 2001.
		Second point, one of my friends, my good friends, was Dr. Robert Masters.
		He's a hypnotherapist.
		He's now deceased.
		He's a very famous hypnotherapist in his time.
		Edgar Mitchell came to Bob Masters.
		Bob Masters told me this.
		Edgar Mitchell came to him after he landed and came back from the moon and said, Bob, you have to hypnotize me.
		I cannot remember anything about the moon.
		And Bob Masters put him into regression, hypnotherapy, and he never, ever remembered anything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, I've got to verify that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I actually had him on the air.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I asked him.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		I remember the show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you do?
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is true.
		And I asked him to please, if he could close his eyes and think about what it felt like to be on the moon with any words that he could put together to get us to understand that.
		And there was this long pause.
		And he said, you know what?
		It's a funny thing.
		I don't remember much of it.
		It stopped me cold.
		So that much I can verify.
		Sandon, had you heard that?
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		I hadn't heard that.
		As a matter of fact, Edgar wrote the foreword to my book, Flying Saucers in Science.
		And certainly I don't consider him a liar.
		Now, you're not calling him a liar.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		You're not calling anybody a liar.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nor am I calling him a liar.
		Yes, I know he's spoken about many things like that, Sandon.
		But in terms of his memory of walking on the moon, he doesn't.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		And another point I would put forth is on YouTube is the press conference for the Apollo 11 astronauts when we got back.
		Yes.
		I think everybody should watch that.
		The body language of these three guys is not, you know, high five and we did it, dudes.
		Let's celebrate this very sober, sombering press conference.
		There's no joy in any of their eyes.
		Neil Armstrong will not even look up.
		He just looks down at the desk the whole time.
		It's very disconcerting.
unidentified		Stanton, any comment on all this?
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		I think it's certainly unusual.
unidentified		Hang on, folks.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		I'll try to get Art back.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		And what I'm suggesting is that the Russians were certainly watching that footage and looking for any signs that this was fraudulent.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		Don't you think?
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		I do.
		But again, front-screen projection is not a very, it was a very esoteric art.
		Maybe five people in the 1960s even knew how to do it.
		And they were all working on 2001 A Space Odyssey.
		In other words, Kubrick had all of the front screen projection experts in the world working with him during.
		And let's point out some other things.
		2001 A Space Odyssey begins production in 1964 and ends in 1968.
		Apollo begins in 1964, culminates in the landing in 1969.
		Fred Ordway is running the Apollo program, but somehow can find time to fly to London and be Stanley Kubrick's top scientific advisor on 2001 A Space Odyssey.
		At the end of 2001 a Space Odyssey, in its original projection, which has now been removed, we're credit after credit thanking McDonnell Douglas and all of these high-tech aircraft companies.
		I have the whole credits and I saved them and I have them.
		And they've been since removed.
		And you look at the internecine thing going on between the film 2001 Space Odyssey and NASA, and it becomes fantastic.
		I mean, never in the history of filmmaking has anybody cooperated like this.
		And I'll end it with this.
		The head of MGM is quoted as saying, and kid you not, in 1968, at the beginning of 1968, he is quoted as saying, I have no idea what the budget for 2001 of Space Odyssey is, and I don't care.
		Does that sound like the head of a studio would say that?
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		I don't know the heads of any studios.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're not giving enough substance to whether or not the film on the moon was actually real.
		I mean, if the whole thing was faked, that would be a scandal of scandals.
		I don't know what I'm going to say.
		It just would be Now, I've got a question for you.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		There is stuff on the moon that was left by astronauts, seismographs, there were rocks that were brought back which are certainly moon rocks and not earth rocks.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Are you sure?
		I mean, the president of Denmark, he was given a moon rock and now he's told that it wasn't even real.
		I mean, over and over this is happening.
		How do we know they're really moon rocks?
		By the way, I think they went to the moon, so that is really not indicative of what we're talking about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		For Jay, you think we went to the moon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you think we went?
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		I think we have very high advanced, and we have had for a while, very advanced ships that can get there rather quickly.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		And, you know, NASA just, I've talked to propulsion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, what are they using?
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		It's electromagnetic.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		That's what I was told almost 20 years ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Quite a jump.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and furthermore, NASA, I used to work with Richard Hoagland a lot back in the early 90s.
		And because he alienated everybody at NASA, I could actually get people, I could actually get people to talk to me that were higher ups.
		And they told me that they had electromagnetic drives.
		Back in 94, I was told that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Stanton, you're a nuclear physicist.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If something like this was going on, wouldn't you have channels to know it too?
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, it's kind of funny.
		My congressional testimony at the hearings about UFOs in 1968, written testimony, six testimony, I hear on the radio that the program was canceled.
		So, you know, you walk in, they say, you realize we just laid off 5,000 people.
		That's not a good way to start a new job.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		And one of the things I did in the three months that they were kind enough to keep me there was a survey on government documents, a collection of information, a bibliography, if you will, using one key word, magneto aerodynamics.
		And much to my amazement, I got 900 references and about 90% of them were classified.
		Collection of information of bibliography, if you will, using one key word, magneto aerodynamics.
		And much to my amazement, I got 900 references and about 90% of them were classified.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Does that propulsion get us from here to the moon?
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		No, it doesn't.
		That's what I was because it creates an ionized air plasma.
		Meteors do it all the time.
		And so there was even a study showing if you went to Mars when you came back, if you used magneto-aerodynamic control instead of retro rockets, you'd save weight.
		Of course, we haven't gone to Mars.
		Well, maybe somebody says we have.
		I guess some people are saying we have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's not take on Mars.
		We've built cities.
		But Jay is saying we may have gone to the moon, but we did it with electromagnetic.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		And we have fancy technology.
		There's a difference between an artist concept and a real photograph.
		And in some ways, I guess that's what we're talking about, although I hadn't thought of it that way.
		And all kinds of proposals have been made for big money.
		And that's what they're looking at is artist concept, which is not the same as a photograph.
		And I feel that way about a lot of the so-called Nazi technology.
		They were looking at it.
		They were thinking about it.
		That doesn't mean they built it or were able to.
		There's a little thing called money in between in time.
		Maybe I should mention here that when I worked a long time ago at General Electric Aircraft Nuclear Propulsion Department in Cincinnati, in 1958, we spent $100 million.
		And that was a budget that year.
		And that was a lot of money in 1958.
		We employed 3,500 people, of whom 1,100 were engineers and scientists.
		Now, we're not talking six professors and 20 grad students.
		So there are a lot of, I'll call them huge programs that have gone on.
		The stealth aircraft, we spent $10 billion over 10 years in secret, mind you.
		The ANP program, the data was secret, but the existence of the program wasn't.
		So there have been some huge programs out there.
		And as I say, there's a difference between what you're talking about doing.
		I can show you beautiful pictures of an aircraft nuclear propulsion system, but it's not real.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		What's your reaction then to Ben Rich's statement that they're 70 years ahead of conventional technologies?
unidentified		Why would he lie like that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, guys.
		Hold tight.
		Hold tight.
		We'll get to that.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		This is Midnight.
		And one of the lonesome is in surrender.
		Oh, yeah.
		And I have met my destiny in quite a single way.
		The mystery book of the show is always repeating itself.
		One of the lonesome is in the world.
		The Dryer Eye.
		Thank you.
		The Night in the Desert and the World.
		To call us from outside the U.S. and Canada only.
		Use Skype with a headset microbiome on a computer and call MITD55.
		That's MITD55.
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We had a little audio glitch.
		Sorry about that, everybody.
		I think everybody heard it.
		But it quickly got back.
		So anyway, we're rocking and rolling.
		And once again, back to Jay Wadner and Stanton Friedman.
		Stanton, I believe whatever you want to say, go right ahead.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		Okay, the point was made that Ben Rich said something, and I've heard different versions of what he supposedly said, how many years ahead we are, and also that he said we could send E.T. home.
		And again, I would make the distinction between what I think we can do if we continue on this path and what we are able to do tomorrow.
		And having worked for major corporations, I know that we like to talk about, you know, just give us the dough and away we will go, if you'll pardon terrible poetry.
		And I think we don't pay enough attention to that distinction.
		Did Ben mean that if we decided to open the money faucet that we could do this, that, or the other thing?
		Or did he mean that if you want a ticket, you can buy one tomorrow?
		And all kinds of projects that start and don't finish.
		You know, a Cold War mentality was part of this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
		And actually, if you don't mind, Stan, that brings up another question.
		If we faked all the footage from the moon, Jay, I'd be very interested to know.
		The Soviets, now the Russians, really have some pretty good technology that rivals a lot of what we do.
		They would know it.
		Why wouldn't they blow that wide open?
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Well, they did, actually.
		Pravdo was constantly saying that the moon landings were faked.
		Just nobody here was picking it up.
		I have the issues.
		Also, what people don't realize is that the Russians actually landed on the moon first, not us.
		Luna 4, I think it was.
		And it left behind reflectors for lasers and a bunch of equipment.
		And it wasn't manned, but it was there first, proving, of course, that you can go and land stuff without ever putting a human on the moon and get stuff and have it work.
		But, you know, the Russians were, you know, in some ways kind of, I don't know, they were impressed by what we were doing, but they didn't quite know how we were faking it.
unidentified		In fact, it was secretly completely hidden in time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you mean they were impressed with our film capability or they were impressed that we landed on the moon?
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		They were impressed that they thought it was faked, but they were impressed.
		And they weren't sure how we did it.
		None of these articles ever say how they faked it.
		They just say, oh, look at the shadows.
		They're uneven.
		And they point out all these other things.
		But nobody knew about the front screen projection until I uncovered it.
		And only because I'm an expert in front screen projection.
		And that's when I found the tool that was used to create the fakery.
		And the lines are undoubted.
		There's no doubt.
		They're unmistakable.
		There's a line where the granularity of the ground actually changes along a straight line.
		And that is the telltale signal of front screen projection.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the line is.
		Okay, this is a little unfair to Stanton because he's not a film expert.
		If it gets right down to the technical aspects of the film, then we should have somebody on who could dispute that if you're wrong.
		But certainly I can't, and I don't think Stanton can.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Even the idea that you can take 70 millimeter ectachrome film through the Van Ellen belts and be on the moon when you can't even take it through an airport detector without it getting fogged, the whole idea is just kind of absurd.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Stanton, is that really true?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, could you carry films?
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, because radiation shielding was what I worked on for a number of years.
		And the role of the Van Allen belts here gets to be a sticky one.
		You know, it depends on how long you're in and what you're inside of and all the rest of that.
		It's complicated.
		It's like some people, not tonight, but some people have made it sound to me as if they thought, gee, if you get exposed to radiation, you're going to die.
		You're going to get cancer right away and all this kind of stuff.
		And people have a deathly fear of radiation.
		You can see that, incidentally, on the recent flyby past Pluto, I watched a lot of coverage, read a lot, didn't see anybody talking about the fact that the energy source was a radioisotope thermoelectric generator, a little small nuclear device using plutonium, no less.
		And it'll run for another 20 years.
		It's already run for 10 years.
		And that's a remarkable accomplishment.
		Think about that.
		And I heard nobody saying, hey, the energy for this whole Pluto business is coming from a radioisotope thermoelectric generator.
		And we've used dozens of them in our deep space mission.
		For people who are wondering, why can't you use solar energy?
		Well, because the further away you get from the sun, the lower the energy intensity is.
		And, you know, Pluto is a heck of a lot further than the Earth is from the Sun.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		I totally agree with you, Stanton, that people overestimate the effects of radiation.
		I totally think you're right on that.
		Their fear drives them.
		And I don't think that going through the belt Is going to kill you.
		I don't mean that.
		What I'm saying is that sitting on the surface of the moon with your camera, with ectochrome film rolled into your camera, and it's 250 degrees in the sun, above zero, and 250 degrees below zero in the shade, how in the heck is that film going to maintain its stability?
		I mean, you can't put film into an oven at 200 degrees, and it's just going to melt.
		And the whole idea is just, I don't know, as a photographer's.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		Wait a minute, I thought you said they sent back television signals.
		Television may be the wrong word in this case, but television.
		Okay, so they were sent back, radio waves were sent back.
		And what happened with the film, supposedly?
		I don't know.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Oh, the film, there's two different things we're talking about.
		One is the ectochrome film that's in the still cameras that they have on their breastplate.
		And then the video is sent back via, it's a video camera that sends a signal back to Houston or actually to Australia.
		And that's, so they're two different mediums, is what I'm saying.
		Okay, so recording.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		The motion picture footage that you're talking about is basically the TV stuff, right?
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		The Kubrick stuff, if you will.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the very low-quality video stuff, yeah.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so we agree it was low-quality.
		I mean, after all, it was in the 60s and early 70s.
		And could we do better now, for example?
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
		That's the thing is that's why it's so irritating that they erase the original taste because what we're looking at is second generation.
		And if I could get my hands on the first generation, then I can maybe prove that they did go even.
		But I don't have that proof now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I just, in my mind, I cannot picture anybody who's got their hands on the moon landing film going, you know, we don't need this anymore.
unidentified		Yeah, toss this one and toss this one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We need to clean this place out and toss that one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Mankind's greatest achievement, and they throw it away.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
		I agree that that is suspicious, and there's no way around that.
		Or stupid.
unidentified		I mean, maybe they go together.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or maybe you agree a little bit that it is suspicious.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		If they've got me.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		If you agree that it's suspicious.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		If I had that access to the first-generation videotape, I would be able to, without any doubt, be able to tell you whether it was fake or real.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, now maybe you're talking about motivation for throwing it away.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I really hate jumping over on your side, Jay, but I mean, why else?
		It's such a stupid thing to do.
		There's got to be a motivation.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Well, it is.
		And I had a friend.
		He was a rocket scientist named Bill Wood.
		I think he's still alive.
		I don't know if you're out there, Bill.
		Hey, long time do see.
		And he told me that he was at a conference of rocket engineers, and they were putting forth this rocket that was going to soft land here on Earth.
		And they said, hey, this is the first time that we've ever done a soft landing.
		And Bill Woods, you know, raises, Dr. Wood raises his hand and says, that's not true.
		We've done six soft landings already.
		What are you talking about?
		And they didn't even consider that the Apollo landings were credible even in this group.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		I don't know what to say about that.
		And certainly I will try.
		I mean, I've met several astronauts, and I do have difficulty with saying that basically, remember, because part of your story now is that they had to be going through hoops here on Earth that is sound stage, right?
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		No, no, it wouldn't be, because of the gold visor conveniently being used, we don't know who those people are in those suits.
		I mean, we don't know who they are.
		You can't see them.
		You can't see their faces.
		We don't know who they are.
		And again, why are they using the gold visor?
		What's the point of that?
		Except maybe to hide their faces, you know?
		I mean, I don't understand.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		Gold is a good reflecting material and all that sort of stuff.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Could be true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Stanton, it sounds like he's beginning to talk you into it.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, there's an old, not enough data.
		I have a big gray basket, a very large gray basket.
		Everybody wants, I get a lot of calls, they want a yes or a no on everything, and not a maybe.
		And I like often have to say, look, I don't know enough to be able to come down on one side or the other.
		It's up in the air or in space.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I remember your gray basket, indeed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're almost ready to put this into that basket?
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes, because I have a lot of questions and I don't know how to get answers to many of them.
		And as Jay just said, there would be a difference if we had the original footage.
		And, you know, if you talk about bonehead plays, certainly, you know, having that footage gone seems to be one of the worst that I'm aware of.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then there was the...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then remember, there was the destruction of all the Roswell records, too, right?
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, somehow they got destroyed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold on, hold on, YouTube.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So we're having a general discussion about what happened.
unidentified		What didn't happen?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not back to Chrome, but we've got a problem for you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is Midnight in the Dead.
unidentified		Think back on all the crap I learned in high school.
		It's a wonder I can't think at all.
		And my life's education hasn't heard enough.
		I can read the writing on the wall.
		Hold it for.
		Hold it for.
		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And we've got Stanton Friedman here.
		Keep wanting to call him doctor.
		Sorry about that.
		So let's see where we agree and where we disagree.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		We seem to be there's a point I'd like to make to go back to Benrich and nuclear.
		When you talk about how far advanced technology is, I find that many people, a typical example is that we have nuclear-powered aircraft carriers.
		These exist now.
		They're operating out on the high seas there that can operate for 18 years without refueling.
unidentified		And people look at me like, what are you talking about?
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		I say they're nuclear-powered aircraft carriers, and they operate without refueling.
		This makes an enormous difference on your tactics on the ocean if you don't need to worry about how much fuel you're using.
		That's an enormous impact.
		So that's part of what I meant about maybe it's technology that we are thinking about versus what we already have.
		In this case, many people are shocked.
		It's like people don't even appreciate the fact that nuclear-powered submarines, you know, we heard an awful lot about German U-boats during the war, what a threat they were to the convoys in the oceans and so forth and so on.
		But they could stay underwater for maybe a day because you need air for the diesel engines.
		Taking care of the people is easy.
		Air for the engines is not.
		Now we have submarines that can go around the world underwater.
		And when they go past a beautiful island, they take periscope leave is one kind of put it to me.
		Which is a clever remark, but it's true that that's an enormous advance over the past.
		And a lot of people simply aren't aware of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What we're talking about here, Jay said we have jumped, even back then, we have jumped ahead to some sort of electromagnetic drive, some sort of something that would get us from here to the moon, and we have it back then.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		Well, I saw the recent article, and it really wasn't saying we have it.
unidentified		This is a study being done about a possible means of doing that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand, Stan, but he's talking about having had that back when we did the moon landings that he says were fake photographs.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and I don't think we did, to tell you the truth.
		And again, there's such a fine line, if there is any, between truth and half-truth and no-truth when it comes to technology.
		I mean, I've seen all kinds of claims.
		You know, I'm a flying saucer guy, and I hear all kinds of stories which turn out to be baloney.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		So, Stanton, let me ask you a question.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		You don't believe that we back-engineered anything from Roswell or anything like that, right?
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		No, I didn't say that.
		Again, let me give you an example of something I think we did learn from Roswell.
		I'm the original civilian investigator of the Roswell incident.
		And my view about what you would do when you got all the pieces of wreckage, you'd send them out to your best classified labs, and you'd say, what is this stuff?
		This fine foil-like material, very strong, very lightweight, etc.
		And the guy comes back and said, it's a combination of samarium and cobalt.
		Why would you put those two things together?
		Not your problem.
		You send it out to somebody else, what are the electromagnetic, thermal, nuclear properties of this stuff?
		And the guy comes, you don't tell him where you got it.
		He doesn't have a need to know for that.
		Maybe he thinks it came from a spy.
		And he comes back and says, the highest magnetic Molema I've ever mentioned measured what a wonderful permanent magnet material this would be.
		And pretty soon you're building ghetto blasters with samarium cobalt magnets in the speakers.
		That's real, incidentally.
		And I was, for a while, several years, did a weekly science commentary for CBC Radio here in Fredericton.
		And I did one, I read a lot.
		It was fun.
		And I did one on new and better permanent magnet materials, neodymium, boron, and iron.
		I'm not making these up.
		They're real.
		At the end of the article, it said the original work on samarium cobalt was done at Wright Air Development Center, Wright-Petterson Air Force Base.
		And I just laughed my head off.
		In other words, I think that the basic idea came from somebody saying, hey, what is this stuff?
		A second, In my book, there's a picture of me with my hand on the Apollo 12 command module.
		I spoke to the NASA people there in Southern California, and they took me on a tour and took my picture with the command module and stuff.
		Strangely enough, they didn't want the North American Rockwell people to come to the presentation, only the NASA people.
		Don't ask me to explain that because I don't have an explanation for it.
		And the point was that they were very interested on the one hand.
		And on the other hand, who knew what the real stuff going on was and that I didn't?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right.
		Again, we're closer to that.
		We're agreeing in more agreement than disagreement.
		Do you both believe it is possible, this is a straight-out question, that from the crash at Roswell, we built something that could take us to the moon and back real quick?
		No, I don't believe that.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		No?
		I believe that in combination with what else we had, yes.
		Not that alone, though, but in combination with the other technologies that we had discovered and also developed.
		Don't forget, Hitler was not just financing these guys to create exotic technologies.
		He was also sending expeditions into Tibet, into Northern Africa, into Peru, looking for ancient advanced technologies.
		He admitted it.
		And these expeditions were run by the SS, the occult division of the SS.
		So he was making a major plan to try to recover as much of the past as possible and apply it.
		And when you take that and then you add the Roswell stuff, 1947, hey, by 1955, you could be really far advanced, especially with the backing of the United States, which was the richest country on earth.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		Well, one of the problems here is that if you gave the smartest people on the planet a cheap digital wristwatch, say $25 wristwatch, back in the 30s, he would know it was a watch and he'd know there's a battery there, but he had no way to examine the chip or certainly no way to duplicate it.
		And so, you know, it's like, Christopher Columbus, I need a nuclear-powered submarine, and I've got unlimited money.
		Can you build one for me?
		And the answer would have been no.
		There's too big a gap between where we are and where we would have to be.
		And that's the point I was trying to make earlier about the difference between having good ideas and being in a position to build, create, duplicate, whatever you want to call it, that technology.
		Ideas aren't enough.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so you're saying we weren't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We were not in that position, so we could not have had such craft.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		So then we didn't.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		And also, if we had such craft, why wouldn't we be using it instead of some of our airplanes that are currently, you know, how expensive they are?
		What I'm trying to say is I don't think that if we had advanced technology that would be useful in the building of call them bombers as a generic class of craft able to put destruction all over the place, I don't think that we would not do it.
		You know, what bothers me is that the military budget on this planet this year is approximately a trillion dollars.
		That's an awful lot of dough.
		That tells you something about the people on this planet.
		And I think if we had the kind of technology that would enable you to build a bunch of fancy vehicles, aircraft in particular, I think we would.
		And so, you know, there's a disconnect, in other words, between the idea of, well, we've got all this technology, but we're not using it or we're hiding it.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		I don't understand because the military for sure has advanced technologies, aircraft and things, and the two maxims of the military to win a battle is take the high ground and keep everything secret.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		And so perfecting this kind of technology would thoroughly satisfy those two things that you need to have to win a battle.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		But why would you keep building the old stuff?
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Because you want everybody, you want your enemies to all think that that's what you've got so that when the time comes, you can strike and you can strike quickly.
		Surprise and the high ground are the two most valued things in military operations.
		And this kind of weaponry gives you both of those advantages, but you have to keep it a secret.
		Otherwise, you lose your advantage.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		Well, maybe it's misological, too.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		Maybe you want the other guy to think you've got this technology, even though you don't.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Well, good psychology too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You remember Star Wars?
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Except that I've actually seen some of this technology with my own eyes.
		I was out near Vandenberg Air Force Base 10 years ago, and I saw a craft flying right over Vandenberg Air Force Base.
		There was nobody scrambling their jets.
		There was nobody going up to look at the craft.
		They had to have seen it.
		It was right over the base.
		I'm sure it was military.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, now you're off into different territory.
		You're off into uthology, and I think we're all within here.
		That could have been why they didn't scramble something.
		I don't know.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Well, maybe.
		All I'm saying is that it's in the military's advantage to keep these things a secret.
		I think we can all agree on that.
		How advanced they are, I don't know.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		I had a crunch for 14 years, and there are some limits on what secrets you can keep, even though there are plenty of secrets that have been kept.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		One of them is to cover up the mistakes you make.
unidentified		Well, isn't that true?
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		You don't want people to know because, whoops, look how he did.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		Sorry about that, folks.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		I can understand, though, is you're saying that Philip Corso is not correct and we didn't have all of you.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		I certainly am saying that Corso is not correct.
		I've written about Corso.
		I've got an article that I sent to people, Fraud and Ufology, and I focus on Course.
		Well, let me be specific.
		I don't want to just cast dispersions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, gentlemen, before you get specific, we're out of break, so I don't want to start this and not be able to finish it.
		When we come back, the subject is going to be Philip Corso.
		So stay right there.
unidentified		Bye.
unidentified		Thank you.
leo ashcraft ▲ ● ▼		More Dark Matter News on Leo Azhcraft.
		Millions of locusts have descended on farmlands in southern Russia, devouring entire fields of crops and causing officials to declare a state of emergency in the region.
		A vast area of at least 800 hectares is currently being affected as the swarms of insects, each measuring about 8 centimeters long, annihilate fields of corn and other crops.
		It's been more than 30 years since this part of southern Russia suffered such a dense plague of locusts.
		Officials say at least 10% of crops have already been destroyed, and the locust feeding frenzy is far from over, threatening to devastate the livelihoods of local farmers.
		On state television, Russian news broadcasts are linking the plague to climate change, connecting the phenomenon to recent flooding and higher-than-average temperatures.
		Officials from the Russian Ministry of Agriculture have declared a state of emergency, but appear helpless to prevent the destruction.
		First NASA chief scientist Ellen Stoffen openly admitted that alien life is imminent, and just last Tuesday, Dr. John Grunsfeld of NASA's Science Mission Directorate announced the agency was on the verge of discovering life on planets other than Earth.
		Some say that Stofan and Grunsfeld hide the fact that NASA has been lying to the public about known extraterrestrial life for decades now, and that ETs have likely been visiting Earth for centuries.
		Grunsfeld told a House Committee, are we alone?
		Many, many people on the planet want to know.
		We are on the cusp of being able to answer that question.
		And Stefan's recent comments were even more bold, saying that, I think we're going to have strong indications of life beyond Earth within a decade.
		We're on the verge of things that people have wondered about for millennia.
		Within all of our lifetimes, we're going to understand that there is life on other bodies in the solar system.
		We're going to understand the implications of that for life here on Earth.
		Her declaration is synchronized with the agency's recent discovery of water of five of Jupiter's and Saturn's moons.
		We were also told by NASA recently that their Kepler mission found another Earth in the habitable zone in our universe circulating around a star that resembles our sun.
		NASA defines habitable based on the ability of a planet to pool water ostensibly to support life as we know it.
		Dark Matter News.
		A massive sinkhole has swallowed up an intersection in Brooklyn, New York, stalling up traffic and causing waters and gas outages to nearby buildings.
		Local residents are already joking about turning it into a rent-controlled apartment.
		Dramatic images show the gaping hole in the corner of 64th Street and 5th Avenue, located just a short block away from the I-278.
		The crater appeared shortly after 7 on Tuesday morning.
		There were no injuries.
		Witnesses say there were cars on it just moments before, and rooftop surveillance cameras captured the cave in it.
		The fabled Bishopville, South Carolina swamp creature, known as Lizard Man, appears to have surfaced again Sunday afternoon.
		Sarah, a Sumter woman who says she went to church with a friend Sunday morning, stepped out of the sanctuary to see the lizard man running along the tree line.
		So she did what anyone else would do.
		She took a picture with her phone.
		She says they were just a mile or so from Scape Or Swamp, the site of a similar spotting of what may also be the Lizard Man in May.
		A man who asked not to be identified submitted a short video of what he thought was the Lizard Man Monday morning.
		He said he took the video in May while coon hunting, but kept its existence quiet until he saw the reports of Lizard Man outside a church.
		Scape Or Swamp is the area where most of the Lizard Man sightings over the last 30 years have been focused.
		Yes, there's quite a lot of local lore surrounding the reptilian humanoid, including the first sighting in the summer of 1988.
		There have been searches by Destination Truth and Mysteries at the Museum as recently as 2013.
		In a 2014 episode of Ancient Aliens, the Lizard Man was mentioned.
		The tales have been documented in a cryptology book titled Lizard Man, the story of the Bishopville Monster.
		But the creature has not been seen in more than a decade, until now, possibly creating yet another ripple in the swampy waters around Bishopville.
		I'm Leo Ashcraft for Dark Matter News.
unidentified		Dark Matter News
		Dark Matter News
		Dark Matter News Take a walk on the wild side of midnight.
		From the Kingdom of Nye, this is Midnight in the Desert with Art.
		Please call the show at 1-952-225-5278.
		That's 1-952-call-art-night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well it is digital.
		Tim Friedman, nuclear physicist, is here Jay Widener, filmet with more.
		And the subject would appear to be Philip Forso and uh And I'm good with that.
		I interviewed Philip Porso actually in a series of interviews and boiled down.
		His contention was we took the information from the crash at Roswell and parceled it out to American industrial giants to build many of the things that we now enjoy.
		Do both of you agree with that premise?
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		I do.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		But that's what he claimed, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so that's not agreement.
		You think that's exactly what he did.
		You believed Philip Corzo-J, correct?
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I listened to your interviews all those years ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, okay, all right.
		Well, Philip, Philip was pretty convincing.
		Stanton, what do you have to say about him?
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		Well, I did meet him more than once, but I checked on him.
		And let me tell you some of the things I found.
		For one thing, he claimed in the book The Day After Roswell that he had been a member of the National Security Council under Eisenhower.
		That's pretty high as far as advising to the president.
		You know, you don't get hired in the NSC.
		Well, I checked with the Eisenhower Library.
		I've been there many times, and they know me, so I told them what he had claimed, and they checked, and I got a letter back saying that he not only was never a member of the NSC, but he never attended a meeting.
		They keep track of that sort of stuff.
		And I sent a copy of the letter to the lawyer, Peter Gersten, to whom Philip had signed, for whom Phil had signed a sworn statement about his background.
		And the lawyer showed it to Phil.
		Don't you think we should take that out?
		That claim?
		No.
		He didn't think so.
		A second example was that one of the things, remember that he wasn't saying that this was going on right after Roswell.
		Roswell happened in 47, early July.
		He was saying that this happened after he started to work for General Trudeau, the Army Foreign Technology Division at the Pentagon.
		This is after 1960.
		So first of all, you have to think that, gee, what, they left that wreckage lying around?
		He said he got a filing cabinet of Roswell materials, and that was his job to parcel it out.
		A couple of things that he took credit for, there are no references in the book, which I find very frustrating, of course, were things, one, a guy got a Nobel Prize for work done years before Corso came along.
unidentified		That was clearly a lie, to put it bluntly.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		And there were other things that we know the sequence of how those new technologies came into being, lasers and other things.
		And Corso wasn't part of it.
		Remember, he was not an engineer or a scientist.
		And so, and remember that Strom Thurman, who served, I still think he has the record for serving more years in the Senate than anybody, or close to it if he's not still the record holder, he withdrew the forward that was used in the book because he thought it was for a different book about intelligence agency work kind of stuff.
		And when his people found out what the book was about, he withdrew it.
		So also he claimed that he in July 6th, on July 6th, at Fort Riley, Kansas, his bowling buddy let him look into this crate, which there was a blue liquid in which there was an alien body.
		Now, I've heard some egregious violations of security, but that outdoes them all.
		There is no way that's going to happen.
		That's like saying you're driving around with nuclear weapons in the truck and you park outside of McDonald and leave the truck open.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, but you cannot prove that did not happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The other stuff, I guess.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		The dates are wrong.
		The dates are wrong.
		We know the date when Rancher Brazil came into Roswell.
unidentified		Right.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		And that was the sixth.
		And we also know that if there's one thing the 509th had at Roswell, the 509th bomb group, the guys who dropped the atomic bombs, you know, if there's one thing they had was airplanes.
		Why would they put stuff on a truck?
		I mean, they put nuclear weapons on airplanes.
		They certainly trusted them enough to be confident.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm just trying to make a distinction between what you have proven are lies and what you speculate just couldn't be.
		But if you can prove one lie or two lies, then you can call it all into question.
		That I agree with.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		We did a radio program.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		You know about radio programs.
unidentified		I'm here, little's there, and the host is someplace else, just like now.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		And I asked how he knew the date of July 6th.
		I asked, did you have a diary or a notebook?
		I was hoping he had something like that because that would be great.
		Well, I know when I was transferred there, it turns out that was in March or April.
		The date makes no sense.
		And like I say, I worked under security for 14 years, and the idea of a bowling buddy in the military letting you look at a crate that has an alien body in it that is sitting around unguarded, just doesn't make any sense to me.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		Not at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But in terms of flat-out lies, his work with the government that you documented, that one does seem to be simply untrue.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Jay, any comments?
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, actually, it doesn't surprise me that he's caught fibbing a couple times.
		I read the book, and I wondered sometimes when I was reading it whether it was all the truth or not.
		But I just want to get one thing clear here.
		You're saying that there's not really been much back engineering of anything, that all those statements are.
unidentified		Well, no, no, no, no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He was saying Philip Corso didn't tell the truth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, look, if somebody lies, I'm sorry, but if I was an attorney and I was in court, I would have the whole damn thing thrown out successfully if I proved he lied.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's another part of this, too.
		I started to say before about when I spoke to the NASA people, what I wanted to get at and didn't, my problem, was that the shape of the command module, it came home to me when I got my hand on it, it's a round, blunt body.
		I always thought, most people thought, that a high-speed aircraft has to have a plano, sharp wings, highly streamlined, you know, like the X-15 or something like that.
		And we wind up with a round, blunt body coming back at 25,000 miles an hour.
		And then, of course, I checked and found that we did do wind tunnel tests in 47 of round blunt bodies.
		So I think some smart person said, hey, if these guys are able to go this fast with something that looks like that, maybe we ought to look into it.
		So I think, and there may be other subtle things, maybe not so subtle, that have been done in the course of the Cold War that we learned from, remember, as it happens, I'm giving a paper Saturday in Nova Scotia, Liverpool, Nova Scotia.
		Everybody's welcome.
		In which I talk about crash saucers from Roswell to Shag Harbor, which is also in Nova Scotia.
		I talk about five different events, and who knows how many more there were.
		They got better at covering things up.
		So I'm not saying we haven't been stimulated to look in new directions, that we haven't directly learned specific things that could be of interest.
		I certainly hope we did.
		If you got that much wreckage, there ought to be people.
		I mean, I think that was one of the functions of Operation Majestic 12, is to coordinate the efforts that how do we find out useful stuff here?
		You know, you don't parcel that out at 20 different places.
		So, and I've got a book, Top Secret Magic that goes into that.
		And, you know, I don't know if we, certainly, you and I never talked about this, I don't think, about General Carol Bolander.
		No.
		It's an incredible tale.
		He was an Air Force general, an engineer on a lunar excursion module.
		Jay, bear with me.
		I've said lunar excursion module.
		And he was asked in 1969 after the Condon committee people had recommended in early 69 that Project Blue Book be closed.
		He was asked, had no previous connection with Blue Book, Air Force Project Blue Book, what should we do about Project Blue Book?
		And he wrote a memo, which we didn't see until 10 years later, and I think then it was inadvertently released.
		On the surface, it didn't look spectacular until you looked at what it said inside.
		In the memo, he said, and his memo resulted in the closure of Project Blue Book at the end of the year.
		He said, reports of UFOs which could affect national security are made in accordance with JNAP, Joint Army, Navy, Air Force Publication 146, or Air Force Manual 55-11, and are not part of the Blue Book system.
		That's an extraordinary statement.
unidentified		It is.
unidentified		It is.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		And two paragraphs later, he says, if we close Project Blue Book, the public won't have a place to report UFO sightings.
		However, as previously noted, reports which could affect national security will continue to be investigated using the procedures established for that purpose.
		And yet the Air Force, for umpteen years, has been saying, Blue Book was it, that's it, no national security, no.
		I decided I'd call, I'd try to talk to him.
		So I located him.
		It's easier to find generals with unusual names than John Smith, for example.
		And I talked to General Bolander, retired by this time.
		And I said, it sounds to me like you're saying that there are two separate communication channels here.
		One for reports that could affect national security, and I just heard one, I told him, about a saucer going down the runway at a strategic air command base where nuclear weapons are stored.
		By definition, that's a problem for national security.
		And then the other problem, if my wife and I are walking down the street and see a saucer go by, big deal, happens all the time.
		He agreed with me two separate communication channels.
		And so that's extraordinary.
		And most people are totally unaware of Bohlander's statement.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You brought up the limb, right?
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		Lunar excursion module.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes, yes.
		A main argument of those who believe we never went to the moon is made that the astronauts in their suits could not fit into the limb.
		Have either one of you heard that?
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, as in you believe that, Jay?
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, I've looked at the limits at the Smithsonian, and what the conspiracy theorists on that front are saying is that with the backpack and the suit and everything, they can't get through this small opening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		And I don't know if that's true or not.
		I'm trying to imagine two astronauts putting on those suits inside the limb because they have to be all both have to be on before they open the hatch.
		And I just, I've been inside and looked inside that.
		I can't imagine two six-foot men with Backpacks in that room.
		I mean, it's so small, I can't even hardly imagine one guy let alone two.
		Yet they're telling us that they had two.
		There's another thing about the Apollo missions which needs to be brought up besides the improving production values and all that.
		And that is the fact that, and Stan, you're going to appreciate this one, I know.
		I'm a former computer programmer.
		Besides being a filmmaker, I've always wanted to learn how to program computers.
		I learned COBOL and assembly and all this.
		And I know one thing.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		I've heard that word in a long time.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		I know one thing about technical things.
		They never go right the first time.
		I don't care what anyone says.
		They never go right the first time.
		The only incident that I can ever think of where everything sailed perfectly the first time is Apollo 11.
		We have over 500,000 technical things that had to be done between launch and the setdown in the ocean, and all of them functioned perfectly.
		They all functioned perfectly on Apollo 12.
		They functioned perfectly on 14, 15, 16, and 17.
		No glitches, nothing.
		The only glitch in the entire thing was Apollo 13.
		And I just don't buy it.
		I just don't buy it.
		I work with technology all day long.
		I know it is prone to every kind of glitch possible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're saying what?
		Just too amazing?
		Too amazing?
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		Wait a minute.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Too amazing.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Too amazing.
unidentified		The first atomic bomb worked.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		That was very complicated, too.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		Never been done before.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Not as complicated as getting, launching into Earth orbit, going from the Earth to the Moon, then going down from, never tested, taking a soft landing.
		The only soft landing test that was ever tried was by Neil Armstrong in New Mexico, and he almost killed himself.
		And yet the next time they do the soft landing on a planet they've never been to, it goes absolutely perfect.
		It's unbelievable.
		I'm sorry.
		I just don't buy it.
		Not at all.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		Well, as I say, the atom bomb worked, admittedly to some people's surprise.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, he is making a fair point.
		There's a lot more moving parts and things that had to go right once they figured out the atomic bomb.
		It was probably physically simple compared to going to the moon, sitting down, walking around, getting back in and coming home.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the number of technical issues that face you trying to just get to the moon and not miss by a 500 miles, it's astounding what you have to go through.
		And they did it.
		They did it perfectly, absolutely perfectly.
		No glitches at all.
		And I can't buy it.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		And remember, there was a fire that killed three astronauts, too.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		In 1964, yeah.
		In 1964, there was a fire.
		And five years later, they got to the moon.
		But even the fire itself is like, you talk about stupid.
		They've got open electrical circuits inside a pure oxygen environment, and no one can figure out that this may not be a good idea.
		I mean, that fire that killed those three astronauts is absolutely one of the most stupid things I've ever seen in my life.
		I cannot believe it's as stupid as taping over the tapes.
		And these are the guys that got us to the moon?
		I don't know.
		I don't see a whole lot of intelligence going on.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		We don't live in a perfect world, that's for sure.
		No, I think there are a number of remarkable things that we're talking about here.
		And I'm convinced we did go to the moon.
		And I've met several of the astronauts, and I'm convinced they weren't off on a soundstage someplace else.
		Because remember, it isn't enough to say that what the public was shown was fraudulent, but the astronauts had to be involved.
		And that you're saying we don't know who was in the suits.
		No, we don't.
		So they, well, even that means that it was a lie as well.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		It's deeper than that, Stanton.
		It's deeper than that.
		That's why I brought up the incidences with Edgar Mitchell and Buzz Aldrin.
		There's some kind of psychological operation going on where these guys, there's no way in the world that I'm going to go to the moon and not remember it, period.
		I don't care what you say.
		I'm going to remember every second.
		I'm going to relive those moments my entire life.
		And neither Buzz Aldrin or Edgar Mitchell can even say it.
		They can't even talk about what happened to them on the moon.
		They just can't say it.
		Neil Armstrong never did an interview.
		He stayed on his ranch in Ohio and never went out, never did anything.
		It's over and over again.
		You find these odd reactions by the astronauts.
		And again, I don't think they're lying.
		I think it's much more complicated than that.
unidentified		I think it's, I don't know, brainwashing, if you will.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Well, I was at a party with a bunch of NASA people.
		And this is in 94 in Cody, Wyoming.
		And if Richard Hogan's listening, he knows what I'm talking about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's going to be a quick story here.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		And I met the psychiatrist that debriefed the astronauts, and I was so happy to meet her.
		And I said, so what was the debriefing like?
		And she looked at me with this puzzled face, and she said, you know what?
		I can't really remember what they were like.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		That's a great line.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, there is a lot of this.
		There is a lot of unusual behavior on the part of the astronauts.
		And then there's this clown running around holding Bibles up in front of them.
		I think he's been clocked by astronauts.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Buzz Aldrin clocked him.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he knocked his butt off.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		Buzz did, yes.
unidentified		All right, Buzz got quite a temper, so you don't want to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll come back and we'll start to take questions from listeners, okay?
		I need another yup.
		Is that all right?
unidentified		Yes, I got yep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		okay.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is Midnight in the Desert.
unidentified		I'm Mark Bell.
		Thank you.
		to initiate a dialogue to Winswood Art Bell, please coordinate your valenities and call 1952-225-5278.
		That's 1952.
		Call Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, okay.
		Uh, there it is.
		That's the public number.
		Let me read it to you again.
		We're going to open up the lines now.
		We have two very distinguished people here, Stan Friedman, a nuclear physicist, and Jay Widener.
		Actually, anything you want to ask is fair game.
		Obviously, we've been concentrating on the moonshots.
		What an amazing story that is, huh?
		If you want to call in by Skype, we are in North America, MITD51.
		Just put that in.
		M-I-T-D-5-1, you can call us.
		Outside the U.S., anywhere else in the world, you can call us at MITD55.
		M-I-T-D, that's midnight in the desert.
		Gentlemen, we're back on again.
		There is just one thing before we begin taking the calls that I want to ask about.
		And this goes to you, Jay.
		You think that NASA has found out something about our sun?
		Now, that's something that I would think Stanton would be familiar with since he deals with things nuclear.
		It's nothing but a big nuclear fission reaction, I believe.
		Fusion, I'm sorry.
		So what is it that we found out?
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Well, this is actually how I got started on my whole journey years ago.
		I discovered a monument in the south of France, which I proceeded to decipher, which is actually in my first two books.
		And it appears to be of a 400-year-old monument in which a, I don't know, a secret society or some group of men has inscribed a series of symbols, which no doubt, after you see my interpretation, say that there was a gigantic CME or coronal mass ejection at some point in the past, which killed a lot of people.
		And they're warning about it in the future.
		And in fact, I believe it's a group of Freemasons and that this may be one of the tenants of Freemasonry is to keep this memory of this outburst from the sun alive and also pass it down into the people of the future.
		And when my first book came out in 1999, I was actually criticized by NASA for being a fear-mongerer.
		And I actually got in some debates with NASA.
		And then about 2004, all of a sudden NASA changed their mind.
		And they began warning that there was this chance that we could be thrown into the sixth century BC in the flash of an instant by a coronal mass ejection frying everything up, which I had not really talked about.
		I was talking about the human part of it.
		And so now NASA's in full-tilt boogie about coronal mass ejections and protecting nuclear power plants because if they get fried, radiation is going to go crazy, which I'm gratified to hear and see.
		But at the same time, I think it's really a really big concern that we should have.
		And we're not doing enough to protect ourselves from this.
		It's going to happen.
		It happened in 1859, and it's going to happen again.
		And we're a wired society, and we're going to pay deeply when this happens.
		And I think we should take care of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Here's somebody I think might agree with you from Cleveland, Ohio, something about Freemasons.
		Hello?
unidentified		Yes.
		Hi.
		Hi.
		You know, I've heard various thoughts and conspiracy about Freemason being involved with the Buzz Aldrin thing and the flag being brought to the moon.
		I wonder what your guest thought about that.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know of any connection between Buzz and Freemasons.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		I've met Buzz, but I don't know whether there's a Freemason attribute or connection at all.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Do you?
		Well, actually, actually, yeah.
		Again, this is Buzz' words, not mine.
		Buzz has admitted that he performed a Freemasonic operation when he was on the moon.
		Now, I don't believe he went to the moon, so I don't believe the story, but why would he be performing a Freemasonic operation if he wasn't already a Freemason?
		Why is he saying this?
		And I'm just telling you, this is widely reported.
		It's not some speculation or something.
unidentified		Yeah, I'm a Freemason, and I'm so thankful for you guys' thoughts on that.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Thank you very much for the call.
		And let's go to Jason on Skype.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
		So I had a question about how the flags and the determinants on the moon got there if we never landed there.
		And the fact that several countries also tracked the Apollo mission via radar to the moon.
		So if we never went, how would they be able to track that?
		And India's probe, China's probe, and Japan's probe all spotted the disturbance on the moon.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		I never said we didn't go to the moon.
		I said that we didn't, what we were shown is fake.
		So there's a big difference.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I don't think we're going to get a big argument on that.
		There should be an argument, though, about whether we went to the moon as you suggest we did, Jay, or whether we went to the moon as we were told we went to the moon.
		I mean, were we lied to, Stanton?
unidentified		Do you think we were lied to about all that?
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		I mean, about a different no, I guess the simplest answer is no, okay?
		I don't think we went there in a fancy electromagnetic propulsion system or an unspoken about system.
		There are several different questions here.
		I do think we went there.
		I don't think the astronauts worked on a soundstage somewhere to, or okay, somebody impersonating astronauts, which makes it sound even worse, I guess.
		It does.
		You know, so there's a whole gray area here, if you'll pardon the expression.
		Okay.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Speaking of gray, Stanton, I'd like to point something out.
		I'm glad you brought that up.
		When the Chinese sent the rabbit, the jade rabbit, to the moon a year ago or whatever, they took pictures of the moon's surface.
		You agree that's probably true, right?
		But the surface of the moon is brown in those pictures, not slate gray, like it is in all the Apollo photographs.
		And I haven't heard anybody explain why is there such a huge difference in the color of the moon between the two operations, especially when you consider that the astronauts were shooting ectachrome, which is far superior to digital.
		So I don't know.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		I'm glad to hear you say that last thing.
		I get people telling me we live in a digital world and everything's more advanced than it was before.
		And I say, hey, I used to use slides.
		They got better resolution than my PowerPoint.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Film is so much better than digital.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		There's no way you can compare the two ever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Very quickly, outside the country, Lee L. Hello.
		Hello.
		Lee L. High, or whatever your name is.
		You're on the air or you're not.
unidentified		Hello.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Yes, hello.
unidentified		Can you hear me?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I hear you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So go ahead.
unidentified		Pleasure to speak to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good to speak to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm actually in Coventry in the UK.
		It's actually my 40th birthday today, so it's really happy.
		Please get to you guys.
		Okay, so how about if I play for the Devil's Advocate with what Richard C. Hoagling would probably say afterwards?
		Sure.
		And obviously we've got two problems here.
		We've got a lot of the pictures and video, they really look fake.
		And it's really difficult to say that the whole moon landing could have been faked from the whole operation with NASA and such.
		So how about when they landed, there was some talk of a conversation that they saw things following them around and it was cut at that point.
		And that was maybe where they cut to Slandy Kubrick's sort of pre-film just in case something happened.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's exactly right.
		That's exactly right.
		They pre-filmed it in the 60s, mid-60s, and they pre-filmed it to ensure that if anything went wrong, they had this film.
		And then slowly, especially when I believe Nixon came in to the picture, he's like, I've just become president.
		I'm one year into my presidency.
		I'm damn well not going to have this kind of disgrace happen in front of me if these guys die on camera.
		And I have to get up and do their eulogy.
		I'm not going to have that.
		So you can't assure me that this is going to go 100%.
		So we'll go with the film.
		And if it goes 100%, then we're fine.
		If it doesn't, then no one will ever know.
		And, you know, this is the guy that did Watergate.
		Come on.
unidentified		We got a double cosmic Watergate here.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Caller.
		I appreciate it.
		All the way from Great Britain.
		Well, you know, if you two are going to sit here and agree that all this possibly could have been faked, then who's to say that some of the other things that people like Richard Hoagland have said about things that are on the moon he believes might not be true?
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Well, they are true.
		There's stuff all over the moon.
		And anybody who sits and examines the aerial photography of the moon, which is where Hoagland is right, when Hoagland is sticking with the lunar orbiter stuff, with the Apollo stuff from the air, wherever it was taken, with the stuff taken in orbit, that stuff is real.
		And what he's finding is, you know, it's jaw-dropping.
		There's domes, there's square-shaped buildings, there's, looks like even highways in some cases.
		So, I mean, I don't know where it's from.
		I'm not going to speculate.
		You know, I think he's right.
		It's ancient.
		It's been there for maybe millions of years.
unidentified		Stanton, are you ready to agree with that?
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm ready to say that the lunar orbiters, the recent ones, have shown footprints on the moon implying that we had been there.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		Somebody had been there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Somebody was shooting.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		I totally agree that people, we went to the moon, so I'm not going to argue that point.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but how we got there is a big difference between you two.
unidentified		Yeah.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		I'm impressed with the Apollo, with the Saturn V. It's a big old monster.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it sure is.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Do you know that they actually got rid of all the blueprints to the Saturn V, and none exist at all to this day?
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		You know that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		I didn't know that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I didn't know it.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		The lunar orbiter, all of the videotape of the lunar orbiters, beautiful imagery of the moon, all that tape is rotting in a McDonald's in Pasadena, California, an old McDonald's.
		It's been closed down.
		It's just rotting in there.
		There's no air conditioning.
		This magnetic tape is all falling apart.
		NASA doesn't care about these images.
		It's a crime.
		I'm sorry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm probably giving cans of it out to people ordering quarter pounders.
		On Skype, you're on the Air with these two.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Art, and those two.
		Clarification, or actually a correction.
		The Apollo 1 fire was in January of 67, not 64.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, get good and close to the mic on your computer, please.
unidentified		Okay, the other thing, now let me understand it.
		We landed on the moon, but what we saw on Earth was faked.
		Is that the premise?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's Jay's premise, yes.
unidentified		Okay.
		Well, earlier, I think it was Jay who mentioned something about Kubrick supposedly faking the footage.
		That's right.
		I sent you an email about a film called Room 237, which explores that.
		And it's on Netflix and Amazon if you want to check it out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Jay, you know about that?
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		I'm the star of the film, so yeah, I know all about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess you do.
unidentified		Okay, well, check that out, Art.
unidentified		I think you'll be kind of fascinated by the questions that it raises and also the explanations that it offers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		That's my three cents worth for tonight.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		All right.
		Thank you.
		He's got a great point because we never touched on it, and I don't think we should on this show, but maybe some other show.
		But in 237, what they do is they cover all of these people's opinions of the movie The Shining.
		And my opinion of the movie The Shining, which I believe it closes the case, is that every time that Stanley Kubrick deviates from the Stephen King book, he's telling you the story about him having to fake the Apollo moon landings.
		And I have a case I make is deadly.
		And even Christiana Kubrick wrote me and told me how impressed she was by my case.
		So there you go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Vivian, say, Christina.
		Vivian, Vivian, I don't have, Vivian won't talk to me.
		And Vivian, Vivian is a Scientologist living in Texas, and she won't talk to me.
		This is Stanley Kubrick's daughter, and she won't talk to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Johnny.
unidentified		I won't talk to her either.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Johnny on the international Skype you're on.
		Hello, Johnny.
		Johnny Webb, it says, are you there?
		Yes or no?
		Hello.
unidentified		Can you hear me?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I've got you now.
unidentified		Go ahead.
		Thank you.
		The question to your panel is, it's the Van Allen radiation belt.
		I understand, along with Gus Christian, that Van Allen was killed in a car crash with his wife.
		Can they explain how today we still get through the Van Allen radiation belt?
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		I don't think Van Allen was killed in a car crash.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Was he, Stanton?
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		I don't think so.
		I don't know.
		But again, the radiation levels, as long as you don't stay in the wrong place for too long, unshielded, et cetera, et cetera, are not deadly.
		In other words, it's something you have to take into account.
		But, you know, I've worked around radiation for a lot of years, and you can tolerate a good amount of it.
		Look, you sleep in the same bed with somebody for a year, you get a measurable dose of radiation from them.
unidentified		Why are these spaces in Fukushima, for instance?
unidentified		Why are these spacesuits so good for the Van Allen, but not for Fukushima?
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		Entirely different situation.
		The kind of radiation, the energy levels of the radiation, and the duration of staying there, living there, I was going to say.
		But Fukushima, it's an entirely different kind of situation.
		High-energy gamma rays from nuclear fuel.
		That was a mess.
		No question.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Even then at Fukushima, there's a farmer that only lives two miles away.
		He's still there because he wanted to take care of his animals, and the animals are all still alive, and he's still alive.
		Just saying, you know, he's only two miles away.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		It's not totally deadly because there's an accident and a large release of radiation doesn't mean everybody kills over.
		This is not Hiroshima or Nagasaki.
		An entirely different situation.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		I agree with you on the Van Allen belts, and I don't usually ever use it in any arguments that I make.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		All right, you two.
		Hold tight.
		We're at a breakpoint.
		Sen Friedman, Jay Widener, my guests.
		We're discussing now all kinds of things.
		At the moment, it seems, radiation levels.
unidentified		I'm Art Bell, and this is Midnight in the Desert.
		Oh, the night is the world.
		City lights ain't different in the day.
		Thank you.
		Something like that.
		In the night, something like that.
		In the night, something more.
		To the wall, something like where we're walking down the street.
		I'm not so loose.
		I take myself, I take myself so loose.
		I take myself, I take myself, I take myself.
		I take myself, I take myself.
		Everything's the way to be.
		Everything has no way to see that you can make.
		What's said in the dark stays in the dark.
		Call Midnight in the desert at 1-952-Call Art.
		That's 1-952-225-5278.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nuclear physicist Stanton Friedman and Film Guy and a lot more, Jay Widner, are my guests.
		If you have questions for them, you can come in by phone.
		You can come in by Skype.
		And I want to drop this on you.
		If you're on Skype and we answer and you hear audio, that means you have gotten through.
unidentified		Wait.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do not hang up.
unidentified		Wait.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And your turn will come.
		So I just want to let you know that if you suddenly start hearing audio, as in, you know, you're hearing the program, bingo, you have made it through.
		So do not at that point hang up.
		All right.
		Back to our two distinguished guests.
		And I must say you've both done a very, very good job this night.
		I've got a call for you from, I think, all the way on the other side of the world in Bangkok.
		Hello.
unidentified		Good morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		This is Charlie in Bangkok, and I've got a delay on one of the signals.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's quite all right, Charlie.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Proceed.
unidentified		I'm with you, real quickly.
		Two comments.
		Gus Grissom, the lemonman, was murdered.
		And two things that Art knows about, many things Art knows that he's smarter than his guests a lot of the time.
		He keeps asking, why do the astronauts who went to the moon keep saying they have no memories?
		Last thing, question.
		Are you two gentlemen exasperated with people who will not just build a door the same size as the ship, put on the suit and try to get through it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, one at a time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You want to answer?
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, I've actually asked myself that question.
		The problem is, is that you can't find a suit.
		I mean, there's one at the Smithsonian, but they won't let you use it, so you can't do a proper measurement on it.
		And, you know, it's amazing.
		All the suits have just disappeared.
		You can't find any of them, just like the blueprints to Saturn V. You can't find them.
		They're gone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is very frustrating, I must admit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Stanton?
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		Well, I feel the same frustration.
		My first thought is I want to talk to a bunch of astronauts, and they're going by the wayside, too.
		And, you know, where do you get a straight answer?
		And it's hard to tell.
		Guys can do all kinds of strange things.
		There's some very crowded airplanes where you say, how the heck did the pilot get in there?
		You know, single-seater kind of things.
		And I don't know.
		People will work hard to get certain things done.
		And what we are dealing with here also is a failure of NASA to look at things from the public's viewpoint.
		I've felt that NASA has lacked leadership for a very long time.
		What they needed was an Admiral Rickover, the nuclear submarine, nuclear aircraft carrier, et cetera, who said, that's where we're going, folks.
		You don't want to go there?
		Get off the ship.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, Richard's coming up next, and I can see him smiling right now.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		I would like to address that, actually, what he just brought up.
		Go ahead.
		James Olberg was incensed by the 2004 documentary on Fox called We Never Went to the Moon.
		He was totally incensed.
		I think you guys know who James Olberg is.
		He's a science writer, really good science writer.
		And a huge man, too, by the way, like 6'8.
		But he went to NASA and he got a $25,000 advance to write a book proving that they went to the moon.
		He became exasperated because he kept asking NASA for this file and that file and this picture and that picture and this video and that video, and they would never help him.
		Finally, he returned the advance and gave up writing the book.
		Not because he didn't want to write the book, but because NASA wouldn't cooperate with him.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		Think about that.
		I'm not surprised.
		As I say, I've worked on the space program, and everybody I worked with thought we'd have a base on the moon before the end of the last century.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, no kidding.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		And it sure as heck hasn't happened.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		And so that's what I mean by leadership, guts, if you want to put it that way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, Jacob.
		Oh, hold on, guys.
		We're in calls.
		Jacob, on Skype, you're on air.
unidentified		Good evening.
		I had a question for Jay.
		If you believe that we had been to the moon, but what we were shown on video was not in fact what happened, then what would have happened with all the astronauts who actually went up there?
		Were they the same people, but under different circumstances?
		Or did they just kind of disappear out of history and never get heard from again?
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		You know, I don't know.
		I'm not really much of a speculator.
		But all I have to do is look at that press conference on YouTube with Buzz Aldrin and Neil Armstrong and Michael Collins to know.
		I can read body language.
		I'm a former investigative journalist, also.
		I can tell when somebody's lying.
		And these guys look like their dog just died.
		They don't look happy or elated or feel like they look successful.
		They look like they're kind of ashamed.
		And watch it.
		Make up your own mind.
		Don't let me influence you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Columbus, Ohio, you're on there.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
		Awesome show and funny, wildly entertaining.
		The two things I called about, one, you guys keep calling the alternative propulsion electromagnetic.
		It's actually electrogravitic.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it is.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there is even argument about whether it exists.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So whatever we call it.
unidentified		If you go read any of Townsend Brown's work, it's all children's toys, basically.
		I mean, much has been kept.
		But I'm a professional photographer, and my question, I saw a while back they sold one of the Hasselblads they claim went to the moon, and there was no shielding on that camera whatsoever.
		And, you know, if you shoot a lot of film, you know that radiation obviously is a problem because the air ports and X-rays.
		But heat also plays a big role.
		And unfiltered sun on a camera like that full of film would just nuke it.
		So did they have any kind of, I mean, I haven't seen any, but did they shield those cameras in any way when they took them up there?
		No way.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		No.
		If you go to the Hasse Blad site, Hasseblad provided the cameras, they actually show you the cameras.
		They're just regular Hasablads and unshielded.
		And you're right, unshielded cameras in 250-degree heat.
		Actually, that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard as a photographer.
		I know there's no way that this can happen.
		But you bring up another point which I really want to talk about, which I haven't yet.
		And that is the composition of the photography on the moon.
		Now, the astronauts had the camera on their chest.
		They could not look through the viewfinder.
		They were just clicking away, clicking away.
		But if you look, and I have, and I've been to Houston, I've gone through the entire photo archives of NASA's Apollo missions, and you look, and it's one stunning photograph after another.
		It's just, you know, and then you think about, oh, Stanley Kubrick got hired by Look magazine to be their top photographer when he was 19 years old.
		And you look at these photographs, and there's no way, these are amateur shots by guys who aren't looking through the lens.
		These are carefully composed and lit shots.
		And as a photographer, they're just very well done.
		That's all I can say.
unidentified		I always wondered who set up the cameras to, you know, initially to show them getting out.
		And the thing tilted to watch them go away.
		always kind of wondered how they did that stuff.
		But even now, there's a...
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		And yet when the rocket takes off, the camera follows it perfectly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, on that note, we've got a break.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's about destroyed the entire American space program by now.
unidentified		It's only one segment left to perhaps save it.
		Mary loves never turn you down and all the others turn you away.
		Thank you.
		It's my private venture.
		Midnight.
leo ashcraft ▲ ● ▼		More Dark Matter News.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm Leo Ashcraft.
leo ashcraft ▲ ● ▼		A drone dropped a package of drugs into a prison yard while inmates were outside, sparking a fight.
		It contained almost a quarter of an ounce of heroin, over two ounces of marijuana, and more than five ounces of tobacco.
		Smith said there had been instances of drones breaching security, and the agency is taking steps to increase awareness and improve drone detection.
		Video footage showed the drone over recreation yards immediately before a fight began.
		An investigation determined the drone dropped a package intended for an inmate on the North Recreation Yard, and it was then thrown over a fence to the South Recreation Yard.
		Last year, the Mansfield Post of the Ohio Highway Patrol increased efforts to watch and catch criminals who throw contraband over prison fences.
		Pitcher, Oklahoma.
		It's a ghost town and former city in Ottawa County, Oklahoma, formerly a major national center of lead and zinc mining at the heart of the tri-state mining district.
		Over a century of unrestricted subsurface excavation dangerously undermined most of Pitcher's town buildings and left giant piles of toxic metal-contaminated mine tailings heaped throughout the area.
		The discovery of the cave-in risks, groundwater contamination, and health effects associated with the chad piles and subsurface shafts, particularly an alarming 1996 study which showed lead poisoning in 34% of the children in Pitcher.
		This eventually prompted a mandatory evacuation and buyout of the entire township by the state of Oklahoma and the incorporation of the town, along with the similarly contaminated satellite towns of Trees and Cardin.
		An F-4 tornado, which destroyed or damaged 150 homes in May 2008, accelerated the exodus.
		The town ceased official operations on September 1st, 2009.
		A new comet is currently making its inaugural trip to the inner solar system from the Oort cloud, where it likely originated.
		New images show a tremendous amount of dust streaming away from it, along with strange blobs that have attracted the attention of astronomers.
		The comet, in addition to being unusually dusty, appears to be jetsoning weird clumps.
		Their explanation is that since the clumps are moving directly away from the sun, it appears they are being driven by the solar wind.
		The fact that the clumps do not change in size as they blow away suggests they are being held together by a magnetic field of the solar wind.
		This means they are likely charged particles or ionized gas, which are sensitive to magnetic fields.
		Likely candidates are ionized potassium and sodium that have been roasted out of the rocks on the comet as it passes close to the sun.
		Another possibility is the clumps are dust in the process of exploding.
		If true, this could explain why comet tails have lines that make them appear as if they're combed.
		Surgeons in Manchester have performed the first bionic eye implant in a patient with the most common cause of sight loss in the developed world.
		Ray Flynn, age 80, has dry age-related macular degeneration, which has led to the total loss of his central vision.
		He is using a retinal implant, which converts video images from a miniature video camera worn on his glasses.
		He can now make out the direction of white lines on a computer screen using the retinal implant.
		Mr. Flynn said he was delighted with the implant and hoped in time it would improve his vision sufficiently to help him with day-to-day tasks like gardening and shopping.
		The images from his glasses are converted into electrical pulses and transmitted wirelessly to an array of electrodes attached to the retina.
		The electrodes stimulate the retina's remaining cells, which send the information to the brain.
		In a test two weeks after surgery, Mr. Flynn was able to detect the pattern of horizontal, vertical, and diagonal lines on a computer screen using the implant.
		With his eyelids closed, macular degeneration can be a devastating condition, and many people are now affected as we live longer.
		These are early trials, but in time, this research may lead to a really useful device for people who lose their central vision.
		I'm Leo Ashcraft for Dark Matter News.
unidentified		Dark Matter News.
		Dark Matter News.
		Dark Matter News.
		Strange words.
		Dark Matter News.
		I never dreamed that I'd meet somebody like you.
		Want to take a ride?
		Your conductor, Art Bell, will punch your ticket when you call 1-952.
		Call Art.
		That's 1-952-225-5278.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're on a ride, all right.
		I have these wormhole messages, and Jay, somebody named Lone Boy says, what Jay said about not being able to find the Saturn V blueprints just simply isn't true.
		They're in Huntsville, Alabama.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
leo ashcraft ▲ ● ▼		That's what he says.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		I went there and I asked, and they wouldn't give them to me or show me copies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, that doesn't mean they don't exist, does it?
unidentified		Well, I guess it could mean that.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Not sure.
		I know this.
		Bill Wood, the rocket scientist, told me that a guy was told, he was working at NASA, and he was told to destroy all the blueprints for the Saturn V, and he was really upset by the order.
		And he did destroy all of the blueprints of the Saturn V but one, and he kept it, and he took it home with him to keep it.
		And about two weeks later, he got a knock at the door, and it was the FBI telling him to give up that set of blueprints.
		Good Lord.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As I mentioned, we've pretty well destroyed the space program tonight.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Well, but think about it, Stanton.
		The Russians are launching our guys in space.
		We don't even have a launch panel.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		I am very well aware of that, and it bothers the heck out of me.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		Me too.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		I'm sick.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		Let me give you another example.
		I worked on nuclear rockets, and people think, oh, that's science fiction stuff.
		Well, Westinghouse Astronuclear Lab, Urja General, and Los Alamos each operated a fission nuclear rocket reactor propulsion system on the ground.
		Back in the 60s, mind you, the Los Alamos one operated at a power level of 4,000 megawatts.
		That's twice the power of Hoover Dam, incidentally.
		And we had our great test.
		It was my high point in my career, and they canceled the damn program.
unidentified		In other words, did they take it or did they take it to question?
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's what I'm thinking.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
unidentified		Well, I'm contending that they're taking a picture of the pressure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're contending one at a time.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, Paul Lavallette, a good friend of mine, and he worked in the patent office for a few years, and he kept noticing that he would approve a patent, and then people above him would stop it.
		And then he would notice that the kind of the patent would go dark.
		And I'm contending to you that every time one of these inventions comes up, it makes a brief flurry in the news, and then it goes dark.
		Everything seems to be happening like this.
		And I'm contending to you that that's exactly what's going on.
		They're going dark, and they're contributing to this overall mission of creating this kind of breakaway civilization, as Richard Dolan puts it, where they're 60, 70 years ahead of us.
		And that means a lot.
		Think about technology 70 years ago and now.
		And there's no transistors, no computers.
		And so if they are that far ahead, and the reports I get from my insiders are is that this is the correct view, that they are that far ahead and that they're really advanced, and they have all sorts of incredible gizmos, including a box the size of a shoebox that apparently can create energy out of nothing and run huge machines.
		And they have free energy, and they have all these things, and they're hiding it.
		And I think it's time for this stuff to be released.
		I think the Earth, we don't need any more Fukushimas, we don't need any more oil burning.
		If they really have this technology, I think we have to really start kind of forcing the issue.
		And that's one of the reasons I'm doing this whole thing about the moon and Stanley Kubrick, is I'm trying to get these issues forced out into the open because my insiders tell me they have amazing technologies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, we're supposed to be at the phones.
		Kokomo, Indiana.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, this is Steve from Indiana.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And art, it's a pleasure talking to you.
		And Mr. Friedman, I followed your career for years, and I'm entitled to agree with you.
		And the reason I say that is how would you explain if we had such advanced technology at the time and we were using it, how would you explain the Apollo 13 that Tom Hanks brought to light?
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		What do I have to explain?
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		You've got some smart astronauts doing clever things.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		I didn't say that wasn't real.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		I didn't either.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		There you go.
		Green again.
		Let's see.
		Let's go to Tim on Skype.
		Hello, Tim.
unidentified		Hey, how's it going?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's going okay.
unidentified		Awesome.
unidentified		Good to talk to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Unless you're at NASA, they're probably ticked.
unidentified		An asset.
		Yeah, I am an asset.
		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So?
unidentified		Okay, so this question is for Jay.
		Jay, I know you're a filmmaker, and I'm aware of Your stance in the world, which is amazing.
		We need that actually.
		People need to hear what Jay has to say.
		He's got a lot of great things to say, and it's not just him, it's information that's on this planet that he has in him, and many people have in them, but they're keeping quiet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, do you have a question?
unidentified		Yeah, yeah, yeah.
		How do we see your new film, Jay?
		The Last Avatar.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Oh, The Last Avatar.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, Last Avatar opened yesterday on Vimeo, and you just go to thelastavatar.movie.com, or if you want to watch it, you know, just watch.thelastavatarmovie.com.
unidentified		Okay, there's a story of what?
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		It's a story of a guy who is pretty much a failure in life who realizes that he's actually a dynamic, special human being and he tries to change the world, which is what I think all of us should be trying to do right now because the world's in pretty bad shape.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That it is.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		It's a good movie.
		I think people would like it.
		I think you'd like it, Art.
		I'm going to send you a free link, and you can watch it in your spare time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Montreal, Quebec, you're on the air.
unidentified		Yes, hello.
		I'm looking at a Freemasonry page for British Columbia and Yukon, and they've got Buzz Aldrin belonging to the Clear Lake Lodge in Seabrook, Texas.
		And they also have Grissom, who died in 1967, as belonging to the Mitchell Lodge of Indiana, Mitchell, Indiana.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what does that mean?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you think that means?
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		They were all Freemasons, Art.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Just like all the people that worked on Trinity were Freemasons.
unidentified		Okay, no, my question was, what does that mean?
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Well, it means that you'll keep a secret.
		That's really what it means.
		You take an oath as a Freemason to protect your brothers.
		And if you make everybody on the project a Freemason, then everybody has to be quiet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then you keep the secret.
unidentified		Yeah.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		That's how they do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Stanton, do you have any argument with any of that?
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		Well, there have been people keeping secrets for a very long time.
		Look, I don't know if you've had anybody on from NSA, but they have released 156 top-secret umbra UFO documents, probably pages of documents.
		The only trouble is you can only read one sentence per page.
		It hasn't had any impact anywhere.
		Are they lying to us?
		I mean, are they keeping secrets from us?
		No question about it.
		So it's not just Freemasons who keep secrets.
		It's NSA types and CIA types, blacked out documents where you can read three words a page, you know.
		And the media ignores it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Redacted.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here's somebody on Skype.
		It says truth up there.
		Let's see what he's got.
unidentified		Good morning, Art, to your guests as well.
		Roswell's from Virginia.
		Thanks, Michael.
		All right.
		This has been an interesting, if disjointed, program.
		I'm not entirely sure what Mr. Widener is getting at.
		So far as I can tell, he claims that NASA did, in fact, go to the moon, but the footage we were all shown was a fakery produced by, I guess, Stanley Kubrick.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you got it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		Okay.
		All right.
		So I've got that covered.
		What I'm struggling to understand then is for what purpose did NASA produce this cover-up?
		What was it they were trying to hide?
		Thanks, Art.
		Shout out to Belgab, and I'll take the answer off there.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		You doki.
		They were trying to hide many things.
		One, they were trying to hide their real technology, I believe, from anybody and everybody.
		Two, they didn't want it.
		It was too chancy to take the photographs on the ground where they may actually get alien artifacts, which are all over the place up there.
		And three, they wanted to make sure that the news was always good and it was never bad.
		And so they faked it also to make sure that everybody in the space program looked good.
		And believe me, they do those kinds of things.
		Also, Edgar Mitchell told James Fox, the filmmaker, who's a friend of mine, he confronted Edgar.
		He's friends with Edgar and he said, hey, Edgar, do you think there's any possibility that some of the stuff was faked like Widener is saying?
		And Edgar said, with a twinkle in his eye, I quote, he said, oh, you know, we might have faked a few things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, did he really say that?
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Yep, that's what he was told me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't suppose you have that on tape.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		No, but he'll say it.
		I bet.
		James Fox will say it.
		I mean, he said it just matter-of-factly to him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We might have faked a few things.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Yep, with a twinkle in his eye.
unidentified		Twinkle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fort Smith, Arkansas, you're on here.
unidentified		Hello.
		Yes, this is Mike from Fort Smith.
		Right.
		A couple things here.
		I just want to make a comment about the moon.
		Why is it that none of these other nations have landed any of their astronauts or cosmonauts on the moon?
		And then I've got a short story here of something I've seen in 2011.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, I'm sorry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't have time for the short story, but I do have time for the question, and it's a good one.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		It is a good one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, why haven't some of the other technologically advanced and advancing nations, we have many of those right now, landed somebody on the moon, or will they?
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Well, China expects to.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		China's working at it.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		It's difficult.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		India, too, I think.
unidentified		And Japan?
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Probably, but again, it's very difficult.
		The radiation problems, the solar radiation, the synchrotron radiation, there's a lot of problems being on the surface of the moon that no one is actually talking about.
		NASA has put out many papers recently warning about how dangerous it is out in outer space and on the moon and Going to Mars without actually ever considering that they actually went there and everybody was fine.
		So there's a great contradiction within NASA about the whole thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, let's go to Ken on Skype.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ken, hello.
unidentified		Hi, Jamie.
		Stan, I talked to you the last caller last night.
		I hope I'm not the last caller tonight.
		I'm a retired aerospace engineer.
		I'm also a mason.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, and you obviously can't talk to us, right?
unidentified		I can.
		And I'm also certified in metallurgy and aluminum non-ferrous alloys and optical emission spectroscopy.
		What I wanted to tell you is that there's a connection.
		You mentioned about the 400-year CME warning that was on Jay.
		And I've come up with a premise I think that is really shocking.
		It's about the vowel vortices.
		There's 12 of them on this earth.
		And they're made up of aluminum alloy that is isotope 26.
		And they're placed around the globe at north and south hemispheres in an even pattern, almost like a stator on a motor.
		And I've been trying to correlate that with what we're seeing with the sun CME, the noises in the atmosphere and the grindy noises that Linda was talking about last week.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't get it.
		Everybody's talking about the sun.
		The sun is now going quiet.
		We're coming out of the sun cycle.
		You have to look really hard to see any sunspots at all, much less major eruptions.
unidentified		Well, the point is, what we're looking at here with this reduction in the magnetic fields of the Earth is a potential for a magnetic flip.
		And I think that those valvortices were placed there intentionally and had to be created from a high-intensity gamma-proton ray beam directed from space to coordinate that kind of pattern.
		So I believe that there was a civilization here before, and maybe still here, that we're dealing with the secret societies that we're talking about that are really directing humanity, and they may have actually placed them there to prevent a pole flip.
		And I'd like to get some comments, Mr. Freeman, from you on that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, for a pole flip, I'm sure he's about to be killed for what he just said, but go ahead.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		I worry about things like that, like CMEs and so forth, and also the fact that we've had a planet here for over 4 billion years, and our recorded history is really very short.
		And I don't see that we're any smarter than the Greeks were.
		We know some things they didn't know, but no more intelligent Greek literature is not children's literature, for example.
		So I think we are living in a world in which we are quite ignorant about the past.
		And I think there may very well have been advanced civilizations here.
		Now, we may be somebody's colony, too.
		It's a penal colony.
		They dumped all the bad boys and girls here, and that's why we're so nasty to each other.
		I can't find another good reason for us to be so nasty.
		So I think we've got a lot to learn.
		And, you know, many of the things that we accept today were rejected for a long time, not because they were wrong, but because people thought, well, I'm so smart, if that were true, I would know about it, and I don't.
		Kathleen Martin and I did a book on science was wrong, 14 chapters, each one stimulated by some smart guy saying something stupid.
		Like, man will never fly, said a great astronomer.
		That was two months before the Wright brothers' first flight.
		The English astronomer Royal said space travel is utter bilge a year before Sputnik.
		The vaccination would never do anything about smallpox.
		You know, there are a whole bunch of these.
		The original title was supposed to be It's Impossible, isn't it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, tonight's show has been more like Man Didn't Fly.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Well, not really, because what I'm saying is they did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
		I know.
		It's just, I don't know.
		It's very frustrating because you two have agreed at least to the point that I'm a little depressed.
		Not depressed that you agree.
		Depressed what it means with what it means.
		You know, it means they lie to us.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Well, they do lie to us.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		It wouldn't be the first time.
unidentified		Hey, look at the Air Force report on Roswell.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		All the way up to Snowden.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		None of which were launched until six years after Roswell.
		But they put a big fat report saying that explains the talk about bodies associated with Roswell.
		And they got away with it.
		New York Times, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Steven, you two, I've got to go.
		Thank you both very much.
		The show just ended way, way, way before I wanted it to.
		Stan, I'll have you back.
		Jay Widener, I'll definitely have you back too.
		So thank you both, and good night.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
jay weidner ▲ ● ▼		Good night.
stanton friedman ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night, all.
		Wow.
		You know, when you do a program like this, you never know what to expect.
		And trust me when I tell you, I didn't expect any of this.
		But then again, that's live radio for you.
		From the high desert to the world, all of you, thank you and good night.
unidentified		Ooh, I love the moon.
		Midnight in the desert, and there's wisdom in the air.
		I've been looking for the answers.
		All my life I found you there as the world we live in.
		I'll be beating all the time.
		And we lost all intuition.
		Oh, we're running out of time.
		The night in the desert.
		Somewhere this morning.

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