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Oct. 1, 2013 - Art Bell

03:29:28

Dark Matter with Art Bell - Communion - Whitley Strieber - NASA - Richard C. Hoagland

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	Thanks for watching! Please subscribe!
	Be inside the sound, smell or touch. There's something inside that we need so much.
	The sight of a touch, or the scent of a sound, or the strength of an oak when it's deep in the ground.
	The wonder of flowers to be covered and then to burst up through tarmac to the sun again.
	Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing?
	To lie in a meadow and hear the grass sing?
	To have all these things in our memories whole?
	And they use them to help us survive Ride, ride like she saw
	Take this place on this trip just for me Ride, take a free ride
	Take my place, have my seat It's for free
	I Wanna take a ride?
	for years.
	Swept your heart just to rid my fears.
	Loved you with my life before man.
	But by now I know I should have run.
	Wanna take a ride?
	From the high desert and the great American Southwest, exclusively on Sirius XM Radio,
	this is Dark Matter with your host Art Bell.
	Now, here's Art.
	Greetings, and welcome to Extra Terrestrial Radio.
	It's a pleasure to be here.
	I am Art Bell.
	And last night we were considering, um, well, all of you were considering that you didn't like the name I gave for the ghost show on Halloween.
	You know, Dark Matter Halloween, I thought it was alright.
	Apparently it was far too pedestrian for most of you.
	So, we have a winner.
	I'm declaring a winner.
	The new name is going to be Spooky Matter.
	Pretty good, I think, Spooky Matter.
	Credit goes to SteelBot on Belgab.
	Belgab is a site.
	B-E-L-L-G-A-B.
	Belgab.
	Actually, they're a bunch of very vicious critics, and only vaguely lovable, but it's pretty cool.
	And so, uh, if you get a chance, uh, you know, go to Google, put in Belgab, and go take a look.
	It's a, you know, a site where people... I don't know what they do there.
	Anyway, they do it.
	So you might check it out.
	Now, um, how do... I'm getting a A lot of emails from all over the world.
	Britain, and on and on and on.
	The Far East, all over the world actually.
	Countries all over.
	How do I subscribe?
	Well, mostly you can't.
	Here's the deal.
	Look, Sirius is originally, when it was conceived, it was meant to be a U.S.
	only deal and then there was a Canadian company I guess it formed in Canada and so forth and so on.
	So even though the signal goes all over the place, well it doesn't go to Europe and it doesn't go to Asia, so you really can't subscribe except for this little nugget of information.
	If you, and you can pass this on to your friends overseas, many of them will hear it because many are listening anyway, If you have a U.S.
	address, and I'm not saying to do this because probably it's not right, but if you have a U.S.
	address and you have a credit card in the U.S., well, then you can subscribe.
	I mean, probably shouldn't be saying that, but it's the truth.
	All you need is a U.S.
	address and a U.S.
	credit card, and I don't know where the heck you are, so go ahead.
	Anyway, Sirius is looking into overseas subscribing for these kinds of shows because there's really no reason you shouldn't be able to.
	Don't forget, ghost stories.
	When you have them, if you have a really good one, briefly tell it, just encapsulate it, and then include your phone number.
	Send it to artbell.artbell.com.
	That's my email address, artbell.artbell.com.
	And maybe we'll call you During spooky matter.
	Fireballs!
	Sightings are becoming alarmingly common these days from the anomalist.
	This one gave a spectacular light show as it streaked over Indiana Saturday night.
	Even more alarming, the report of two dead after a house fire in Ohio, suspected to be the result of a meteorite.
	That's like one of my biggest fears.
	That I'll look up, and I won't see it streaking across anything.
	I'll see it as a dot growing larger and larger, coming right at me.
	What a way to go.
	Actually, not the worst way to go when you think about it.
	The deepest earthquake ever recorded.
	8.3.
	I said deepest, not biggest.
	About 600 kilometers down.
	It's very mysterious how these earthquakes happen.
	This one in the sea of Okhotsk in Russia.
	610 kilometers down.
	610 kilometers of overlying rock.
	Now, the scientists are puzzled.
	Why?
	Well, because down that far there's supposed to be so much pressure that nothing could move around.
	And yet it is.
	Scientists are very confused.
	It was quite a moment, actually.
	Deep earthquakes occur in the transition zone between the upper mantle and lower mantle, from four to seven hundred kilometers below the surface.
	But it just shouldn't be happening.
	And so everybody's shaking their head about it, and I wonder if maybe we don't know as much about the inner earth as we thought we did.
	You know, what's really down there, anyway?
	Government's closed, but the markets are up.
	Now, I was wondering about that.
	The free market, in other words, likes closed government.
	The day before it went down, but the government closed and the market went up.
	Now, hmm, what's that all about?
	Maybe the free market's saying, yay!
	Yeah, get out of the way!
	International inspectors running around in Damascus and elsewhere trying to find all the chemical weapons.
	Supposed to be about a thousand tons of them.
	And I imagine these other government guys running around with them too.
	So it'll be a chase.
	The digital domain is creeping off our desktops and onto our bodies.
	From music players that match your tunes to your heart's beat to mood sweaters.
	Mood sweaters, is that cool?
	That change color depending on your emotional state.
	Blue for calm, red for angry.
	There are vacuum shoes that clean the floor while you walk.
	And fitness bracelets, anklets, and necklaces to track your calorie burning.
	Oh, my God.
	Everyone agrees the race is just beginning, so get ready out there, everybody.
	I think we're going to see some very big leaps in technological fashion, I guess.
	I wonder what color it'd be for horny.
	Wouldn't that make walking down the street an interesting experience?
	And, you know, all day long, all they're doing on TV is doing the government shutdown thing, interviewing politician after politician, and I'm so sick of it.
	I think if I was a reporter, I'd travel with my microphone and a guy named Guido.
	And Guido would stand next to me.
	And I'd ask the politician a question, whether it be from the left or the right, And when he gave me his usual non-answer, my God, they're good at that.
	Never even actually addressing what you ask, but they can talk.
	In fact, that applies to some close guests, too.
	Anyway, I'd have Guido with me, and I'd, you know, after my non-answer, I'd say, look, Congressman, you see Guido here?
	I'm going to ask you the question again.
	If Guido doesn't like the expression on my face after I get the answer, if I'm not smiling, Guido's going to rearrange you.
	Then I bet you you'd get an answer.
	Yes, sirree, sir.
	We've got a stereo check we've got to do here in a minute, too.
	So get ready.
	We're going to do a... I'm tired of getting emails about, it's not coming out of my left channel, it's not coming out of my right channel.
	So we're going to do a check.
	But first, I'm going to tell you about the Senta 40 wooden headphones.
	These are hard to advertise.
	I mean, they really are.
	These are the most incredible, fantastic headphones you've ever wrapped around your head.
	But how do you advertise wooden headphones?
	It sounds vaguely Dutch or something, right?
	So my job is to advertise wooden headphones.
	Actually, They're gorgeous.
	They really are gorgeous.
	If you want to see them, go to ccrane.com.
	They've got wood housings, and it is my position that these wooden housings, even though they're gorgeous, produce a bass response that you're not ever going to get any other way.
	I'm serious.
	It's just superb sound.
	And it's cheap, too.
	$59.95.
	Somebody noted the other day almost everything I sell is $59.95.
	These are remarkable headphones.
	Trust me on this and order them.
	You'll never be sorry.
	I know a lot of people listen in bed or whatever.
	They've got a folding design so they store very easily.
	They come with a flexible headband, ultra-soft ear cushions.
	It'll just make love to your ears.
	Comfortable, lightweight, adjustable, full range of response, best you've heard.
	So do it.
	Call them.
	Right now.
	Why wait?
	The number is 1-800-522-8863.
	Again, what do you want to ask for?
	You want to ask for the Senta 40 wooden headphones.
	They look wonderful and they work even better.
	1-800-522-8863.
	522-8863 The Sea Crane Company.
	Okay.
	Now we're going to do a stereo test.
	I've been getting all these emails.
	Yeah, I don't get the left channel.
	I don't get the right channel.
	I don't get it combined.
	So here we go.
	Are you ready?
	Are you listening really carefully?
	Because the song I'm going to play is going to start in the right channel and then it's going to switch to the left channel.
	You ready?
	This is right channel.
	Right channel.
	Left channel.
	That's a left channel.
	Now you're rockin' in both channels.
	This is Dark Matter.
	I'm Art Bell.
	It's XM, baby.
	And we're very serious.
	To call Art Bell, please manipulate your communication device and call 1-855-REAL-UFO.
	That's 1-855-732-5836.
	That's a number, alright.
	I'm already getting all kinds of interesting information about Comet ISON.
	Uh, from all kinds of people to mechanics sending me an awful lot on ISON.
	The county is suggesting that, uh, well, not all the information is being supplied by NASA about what ISOM is doing.
	He thinks it's connected electrically to Mars.
	And, of course, Richard C. Hoagland, I'm sure, thinks it's connected to Mars hyper-dimensionally or something.
	We're gonna do the first hour tonight with Richard C. Hoagland, assuming that we've made the right connections.
	Now, we've got, uh, Possibly a miscommunication in that area.
	Do we have Richard C. Hoagland on the line?
	He's calling in, I'm told, right now.
	Okay, so what is it that Jim McHaney thinks?
	He thinks that information about ISON and the electrical activity, as it attaches itself in some way to Mars, is being hidden from us.
	He might make an interesting guess.
	It developed a sunward spike, according to him.
	And I'm told that now we have Richard C. online.
	A little miscommunication there, Richard.
	Hello?
	Good evening, Art.
	Good evening.
	You're going to tell us tonight about, well, a number of things, but ISON for sure, right?
	You bet.
	All right.
	Let her rip, Richard.
	Well, we're not going to see ISON from Mars, maybe.
	Maybe.
	The government shutdown has drastically affected the Space Agency, in fact, given that there are no appropriations for any of the government funding that is so-called discretionary.
	You know, the government is divided into kind of two parts, the mandatory and then the discretionary, and the discretionary is a really small part of the whole federal budget, but the discretionary funding includes NASA.
	NASA has between 18,000 and 19,000 employees.
	They have sent Almost everybody except 600 people, who are mostly security guards and computer types, home during this shutdown.
	So... My producer told his daughter they cut off the air for the space station.
	She really got angry.
	You mean the live feed?
	No, the air.
	Oh, no, that's not... Oxygen, Richard, oxygen.
	That's not... Air, air time.
	That's nonsense.
	No, no, no.
	Yes.
	I know, it's nonsense.
	Anyway, go ahead.
	Anyway, yeah, whoever told her that, they should be, you know, taken out to the woodshed.
	You didn't tell her that, did you?
	No, no, no, he told his daughter that.
	Oh, that's nuts.
	Anyway, no, mission control is up and running.
	Obviously, we have astronauts in orbit going around every, you know, 90 minutes.
	And they're still getting air.
	And they're still getting air, yes.
	All the computer people, all the science people, all the support systems, all the guys in the back room, all that, they've all gone home.
	So if there's a problem, NASA will have to call all these people back to work.
	And if they really have to go and get them, we can't get them anyway, because we have no space lift capability.
	It's going to be the Russians, who are not affected by the current U.S.
	government shutdown.
	So yeah, we will be able to get them home.
	But where the rubber meets the road for tonight's discussion, There was supposed to be, and we'll get into this in a few minutes with some images, some really wonderful imaging attempts from the surface of Mars by the Curiosity spacecraft to take images of Comet ISON as it flies by a little over six and a half million miles above the Martian North Pole.
	Alright, listen everybody.
	You need to go to ArtBell.com right away.
	We're about to discuss photographs.
	So, when you get to ArtBell.com, you want to go to the Hoagland 10-1 images.
	You want to click on all images and get the first one of Ison, which is very pretty, on your screen, and then you'll be ready to progress with this.
	But if you don't go to the website, you're going to be lost.
	ArtBell.com, Richard Hoagland, 10-1 images, right?
	That's right.
	Anyway, so yeah, let's go to image number one.
	Because, among other things, that has been shut down, I mean literally NASA is closed, and what was interesting is that of all the federal government and all the various agencies that literally have no money, so all these people have been furloughed, like a million government folks furloughed, the president singled out yesterday NASA to cite as one of the casualties of this Tea Party imposed government shutdown.
	And I thought singling out NASA was very interesting.
	Well, why is it interesting?
	Well, look what they're planning to do.
	If you go to image number one, this is a schematic plan published a little while ago by Space.com for the FYI 2014 budget.
	NASA is planning to begin to go out and find an asteroid in the right orbit, exactly the right orbit, nudge it into an orbit that will intersect the moon With a solar electric propulsion system.
	Get it in orbit around the moon.
	And put it in orbit around the moon so we then can send up astronauts on the new space launch system and the Orion, you know, crew module to sample it and begin to learn how to mine asteroids in Earth orbit.
	And of course that asteroid will be available to all the private ventures that are currently going on.
	The Google folks and Elon Musk and You know, Richard Branson and all those private guys that are really doing interesting things on the space frontier, because the big high-ticket item for making space pay, for actually bringing the riches of the solar system, as my old friend Krafft Ehricke used to say, the magnificent heritage down to Earth... What would it be?
	Well, you'll be able to mine asteroids for precious metals, for water in space, I mean literally water in space, For astronauts to drink and to split apart for oxygen and all that?
	Right.
	Equals fuel also.
	Yeah, I know water is very important, but in terms of actually mining from an asteroid, I'm kind of curious, unless you've got a giant diamond, for example, or something much more, I don't know, worthy, then what would it be?
	What would be worth mining it?
	Well, it all depends on where.
	Remember, every single pound to support the ISS space station.
	It's taken up from the Earth.
	The cost, which is why we're looking at Musk and Branson and others for private space activities, is in the order of $10,000 per pound.
	It's more expensive to ship a pound of water to the space station than it is to take diamonds.
	So what would be on an asteroid that would be worth enough to be doing it?
	If it's the right asteroid, if it's a carbonaceous chondrite, water is about 20% by weight.
	Of a whole class of asteroids.
	And we don't know.
	I mean, they're going to do spectral surveys and try to pick the right one.
	The problem with this little plan is you've got to get one that's around 500 tons.
	That's not a small boat.
	I thought there was water on the moon at the poles, right?
	Didn't they throw water?
	There is.
	But there's a big gravity field on the moon.
	The gravity field of the moon is one-sixth that of Earth.
	It costs money, a lot of money with rockets.
	That primitive, you know, technology to lift a pound of water from the moon.
	So what you'd ideally like to have is water in a zero-grab environment in space to ship from point to point in space to build a space industrial infrastructure that basically is operating in a zero-g environment.
	And that's why this asteroid project is so critical to not just the future of NASA, But to the future of all of us, we need to become a space civilization at warp nine.
	We are running out of stuff on Earth.
	We're just spoiling the planet.
	We're killing our future.
	And we're running out of resources.
	Well, there's infinite resources in space if we can find them and tap them and utilize them.
	And that's what this project is planning to do.
	But there was a three-day conference in Houston that began Monday, was supposed to end tomorrow.
	It had to be cancelled in mid-conference.
	Why?
	Because all the NASA people who have airplane tickets and using their NASA credit cards have to go home because they can't pay anybody anymore.
	The government has shut down NASA.
	Okay.
	I get it.
	You know, I really didn't think of water as a very valuable commodity, but you're right.
	In space, of course, it would be priceless.
	Everything has value.
	Value is all relative.
	You can't eat diamonds.
	You can't drink diamonds.
	No.
	Water, we are 90 plus percent water.
	Water in space is more valuable than any desert on this planet, and asteroid mining will make it available.
	If you use solar energy to simply heat the asteroid up, extract the 20% water, if you pick the right one, you've got almost free water in a zero-grab environment to do amazing things, because it ultimately Can even be used to make rocket fuel for clunky old rocket engines.
	You know, you just rarely hear a girl say, water is a girl's best friend.
	They will in orbit.
	All right.
	So moving on.
	Yes.
	I thought we'd do a reprise.
	I want to see your unspoiled reaction to image number two.
	Okay.
	Image number two.
	Um, let me get it closer.
	Um... I don't know, Richard.
	It looks like a mangled engagement ring.
	Okay.
	That's the best you're going to get from me?
	I don't know.
	If you look on the shadowed side.
	Okay.
	It's like a trash can with the lid still on it.
	Okay.
	A trash can.
	You know this is Rorschach stuff.
	A trash can.
	It's regular.
	It's regular geometry.
	It's got all kinds of... It's no number nine, brother.
	It's interesting, I grant you, but it's no number nine.
	Love number nine.
	You just like long engagements.
	That's why you mentioned the ring.
	Okay, so go to number three.
	Okay, going to image... Well, wait a minute.
	I've got to go back now and then down to image number three.
	Okay, I guess I'm going to get increasingly thrilled as we move along.
	Image number three.
	Here we go.
	All right.
	This is a stereo view of your favorite... Okay, now you're talking, baby.
	Here's number nine.
	Here's number nine.
	You know what?
	A bunch of people told me they thought number nine was so good, Richard, that they wanted the NASA numbers so they could go pull it up themselves.
	Do you have the NASA number for number nine?
	Yeah, Keith didn't put them up on this page tonight, but it's on the previous page from my previous show.
	We have three images.
	of number nine, two taken within minutes of each other.
	And then the one that I've got listed tonight, taken 13 days before they move the rover a little closer.
	So we got a stereo view.
	I will have Keith, you know, tonight put up the images or the image links on this page.
	So they click right on the image link underneath.
	He's my producer.
	He was astounded by this, and so astounded that he refused, I think, to buy into it until he got the original NASA photograph and did his own imaging of that photograph.
	So, there you go.
	So, now number nine has two suitors.
	Oh, it's got a lot of suitors.
	I mean, that's a pipe.
	Well, yeah, we've got stereo.
	I didn't size it correctly, so you can actually see stereo, because that's a very complicated process.
	No one will believe it anyway, so do it yourself.
	But the links are on the first page of number nine from two weeks ago, a week and a half ago.
	And I'll make sure Keith puts the links on this page.
	But yeah, we've got three separate images by the Curiosity M100 camera of this thing sitting out there in the desert a few, you know, maybe 20, 30 feet away.
	It's obviously got all kinds of complex geometry.
	And a pipe sticking out toward the camera.
	Yeah, there's no doubt about it.
	I'm sold on this one.
	The only question I think about it is not whether it's natural or not.
	It is not natural.
	The question is, could it have been from some previous, you know, Russian or American space mission?
	That is a totally legit question.
	That's the only one that I see that stands in the way of, oh my God, that they were there.
	And the answer is, you go to look at all the mission histories which are available all over the web, just Google, there is no previous mission by Russians, Japanese, Chinese, Americans, whatever, that has ever come anywhere close to Gale Crater.
	Now, let me raise another speculation, or what we like to call in the business, a scenario.
	Suppose there is a secret space program, Mark.
	I'm sorry, a secret what?
	Space program.
	Oh.
	Okay.
	Run by folks that have... Well, it would have been very expensive, and that might have something to do with why the government shut down.
	Well, I have no idea.
	The only mundane explanation that one can invoke for this object is that a secret space program went to Gale decades, a decade ago, two decades, whatever, And left this, dropped it as part of the hardware.
	Okay.
	That raises so many bizarre questions that it's almost as good a possibility as that the Martians left it.
	However, there is a way to tell, even by just a photograph.
	When you look close up, you tell me last time I should have had a closer picture of it, so I put up the stereo in close-up.
	Right.
	Look at the surface.
	Does that look like a pristine, new surface to you?
	No.
	It looks really corroded and beat up and... Although there is, of course, a shiny part of it.
	And that's also very, very hard to account for, if you want to call it a rock.
	Yeah, when you have a piece of metal in the desert and it gets sandblasted by sandstorms, wind... It might look like that.
	It gets shiny.
	Oh, absolutely.
	Just go to any desert and look at old beer cans or whatever.
	They don't have any labels anymore, or Coke cans, but they're shiny as heck.
	Because the sand, sandblasted.
	So this is, this looks like a corroded ancient artifact.
	Parts of it sandblasted by Martian dust storms.
	Very, very, very, very old.
	Even if it was, let's say, let's assume this, this was part of a secret program.
	Remember Bill, what's his name?
	Oh, who was the, the Navy intel guy that got gunned down in Arizona?
	Bill Cooper, William Cooper.
	Remember how he claimed there was a secret space program going back to the 60s?
	It went to Mars?
	Yes.
	All right, let's assume that Bill is right, and that this is an artifact left over from a secret space program mission in the 1960s.
	That's only 50 years.
	I'm pretty sure that would have been an American secret program, right?
	No, and it would be nice and shiny because there's no oxygen, there's no corrosion, no rusting in a brief period of time on Mars of 50 years.
	So if this thing is really, really old, which the data says it is, it's got to be much older than anything humans have done in the last hundred years, or the last thousand years, or maybe the last 10,000 or 12,000 years.
	It could be, here's another possibility, an artifact from a human mission from Earth during the last time there was an ancient high-tech civilization on this planet.
	Well, my guest last night would be all over you for that.
	You mean Mike Kaiser?
	That's correct.
	Okay.
	Mike and I are old, old friends.
	I haven't heard the show yet because I was kind of watching the government self-destruct.
	No, he doesn't believe in that kind of stuff.
	That there was an ancient civilization anywhere?
	That's right.
	Well, I mean, you're not a technological one.
	And, you know, for your piping, whatever you call that, you know, there would have had to have been a real space program, technological civilization.
	No, Heizer doesn't believe that at all.
	Not at all.
	So who made Mike Heizer the final authority?
	Well, nobody.
	You know, you have to drive it with data.
	Look at what Graham has got.
	Look at what Brian Forster has got.
	Look at what all these independent rogue archaeologists You know, my old friend, John West, everyone who's looked at this seriously, looked at the ancient structures, the sacred sites, the evidence, the texts and all that, they say we are not the first.
	And I've got measurements of ancient temples with this physics that, when we get to do that show someday, are going to knock your socks off because they're doing things that nobody should have known how to do hundreds, if not thousands of years ago.
	So, all I'm saying is, at the moment, since we don't have ground truth, what's really weird, Art, is that they saw this stuff in the distance from the Curiosity imagery, and for a mission named Curiosity, they drove right by.
	They never even, they could have gone over and, you know, they could have done the microscopic imager, they could have done the laser ping-ping to get samples.
	Yeah, I really, how do I, of course, they're not working right now, but I mean, how do I get somebody from NASA on here, Richard, and say, okay, we're all looking at number nine here, looking at the pipe sticking out of it, please tell me what I'm looking at.
	Let me think of the right person.
	What you want is an honest skeptic, which is rarer these days than a Tea Party member who likes Obamacare.
	But let's find an honest skeptic, a scientist, who is willing to look at data like you tried to get Seth Shostak the other night to go and look at number nine.
	Well, you know, I wonder if he even did after the show.
	I kind of doubt it.
	He wouldn't want to seize anything that would ruin his personal paradigm.
	Why?
	Well, because it would ruin his personal paradigm.
	He's got a job listening and looking for aliens!
	I know, but if they're already here, or in this case, on Mars, then his job is in jeopardy, Richard.
	End of conversation.
	Hang on, hang on.
	What he said, from what I heard him say, was, if you could prove to me, meaning Ava, that someone was here, I would change jobs, meaning listening with a radio, you know, clunky, archaic, primitive radio, and I would look at a way to interact with them in modern 21st century modalities.
	He said that right on your show.
	Oh yeah, I'm sure he said that, and the comments were mine.
	It was sort of a comical observation.
	I don't think he likes things like they're here now.
	If they're here now, then he's got a problem.
	You know, it's an editorial comment.
	If they're here now, it gives him infinite job security.
	Because how many people on planet Earth have a background to deal intelligently With ETs, aliens, artifacts, whatever.
	There's only a handful.
	Well, they're here now.
	You've got to reorient all those satellite dishes.
	Well, yeah, or maybe use my Accutron, because when we get to the Accutron show, I'm going to show you data we've gotten which looks incredibly like intelligent messages modulating the Accutron output.
	And I'm willing to look.
	Oh, it's a star.
	Believe me, it's better than number nine.
	All right, we need motion here.
	Next picture.
	Let's go to four.
	Okay.
	This is, for people who don't look up in the sky anymore, I wanted to put up an image tonight of what a really, really spectacular comet looks like.
	This is a photograph that was taken in the southern hemisphere, I think in Australia, in the summer and the spring of 2011 when Comet McNaught flew by.
	And it was, the orbit was such that you really couldn't see it from the northern hemisphere.
	But you have one heck of a view from the southern.
	God, that is absolutely gorgeous.
	Isn't that spectacular?
	Yeah.
	This is what they've been saying we might see with ISON.
	All right, now can I stop you right there and ask you, what is your best guess right now, Richard?
	Is it going to be a Fifteen times as bright as the moon, or is it going to be a giant disappointment, or something in between?
	The honest answer is I haven't a clue.
	Comets are notoriously unpredictable.
	Like, I remember back in the prehistory, you know, your prehistory, because you and I hadn't met for decades yet, 1974, when I was at the Hayden Planetarium in New York, I borrowed the Queen Elizabeth II, and took a whole bunch of people, and my director, To South America and back for two weeks, tracing Comet Kohoutek.
	And believe me, it was so amazing to stand on the fantail and pick up the phone and call the bridge and say, sir, would you please move, you know, her bow 20 degrees to port so that the plume doesn't grate itself across.
	And they did it!
	Oh, talk about power, talk about the feeling.
	And we had a great view.
	Now, Cahotec was a dud for everybody else, because you had to be in a super dark sky with no light, no scattering, no glare, no water vapor, no whatever.
	And from the middle of an ocean, it was really great to see from the deck of a Kiwi 2.
	But most people live in cities, so for them it was a dud.
	It is, given the projections of the Comet of the Century, always beware of the hype Comet of the Century.
	You know, note to self, do not follow hype on Comet of the Century.
	Okay.
	I am really concerned of the overhype of Comet ISOP.
	However, comets are incredibly unpredictable.
	So, it could surprise us.
	It's going to come within 700,000 plus or minus a few miles.
	of the surface of our seething 10,000 degree Fahrenheit sun.
	It's going to get so close it will boil furiously as it gets close inside the orbit of Venus in the next few weeks and reaches naked eye visibility sometime toward the end of October, beginning of November.
	It could surprise everybody and have a sudden spurt.
	Comet IKEA-SECHI in 1965 did that.
	Where I was out chasing it with a light aircraft.
	Attention, if that happens, we will be your serious XM channel for Commodisa.
	Now you know what other famous broadcasters said that a few weeks ago, right?
	Yeah, I do.
	Which was?
	It was on NBC.
	Yeah, Brian Williams.
	Yeah, right.
	Which tells me, and remember, I have a conspiracy side to this investigation.
	So I'm looking for the Subtle political backstory to when things are so hyped and you wonder why are they hyping just another little bergy bit sailing through the inner solar system.
	When Brian Williams at NBC a few nights ago said, we're going to be your NBC Comet ISON Network.
	Right.
	They have never done that.
	I have never, I've worked for a couple of networks, three networks actually, NBC, CBS and CNN.
	I have never lived at a time when a network, television network, advertised it was going to be the place to come for news and views of a celestial event.
	Well, if it poops out, he's going to feel strange of me.
	Unless they're running on Inside Info, which raises all kinds of questions we'll get to in a couple of minutes.
	Let's go to number five.
	I'm there.
	Okay, this is an exquisite ISON Simulation.
	Company name is right on the page.
	And then you click on the link below the image, below the thumbnail, and that will take you to this really cool three-dimensional simulation where you can run the solar system forward and back.
	You can look at this thing from any angle.
	You can zoom in.
	You can rotate around.
	The comet, of course, is totally fake.
	It's a big, huge, spectacular comet.
	But that's on the schematics so people can see what the comet is supposed to be looking like at that moment.
	Right.
	This is the single shot, the photo I grabbed for tonight.
	Tonight, ISON moves around 6.5 million miles above the northern hemisphere of Mars.
	We have assets at Mars.
	We have the Curiosity rover and the Opportunity rover on the surface, when I say we, I mean the United States.
	Can I ask two fast questions?
	Sure.
	Why is it turning green?
	Ah, that's the image we get to in a couple of minutes.
	Oh, it figures.
	Yeah.
	Um, alright.
	Let me save that until we get, because it's two images down, okay?
	So, if you like the still, click on the link, everybody.
	Have fun moving around looking at this geometry of ISON over the next several months.
	Let's go to number six.
	Okay.
	Takes me a second.
	Numbers is all on artbell.com.
	If you're just joining the show, go to artbell.com.
	Richard C. Hoagland images.
	He's got a bunch of them.
	Number six looks like... This is the view, simulated view, of what ISON should look like if Curiosity was able to send us images.
	But because of the government shutdown, which coincidentally happened the night ISON flies by Mars, We're not going to see anything for we don't know how long.
	I am praying that the JPL folks actually pre-programmed Curiosity.
	Jim McHaney sent me a bunch of information, Richard.
	He thinks they're hiding data on purpose and he thinks they're doing it because there's an electrical connection forming to Mars that they don't want everybody to know about.
	Well, it is possible.
	It's technically possible.
	I don't think that Jim is right for a whole bunch of reasons that we obviously don't have time to get into now.
	Okay.
	But it'll be a useful discussion.
	Maybe sometime you can have him and me on together and we can have a wonderful food fight in an intellectual, high-level way.
	But, for whatever reason, we're not going to see not only live images or tape, they don't tape them, they put them in digital memory, then they download them over the next day or two.
	We're not going to see any of this stuff because the data acquisition from all of NASA's spacecraft orbiting or on the surface of Mars.
	We've got two spacecraft in orbit.
	We have Mars Odyssey, which has a damn good camera, and we've got essentially a telescope, a miniature Hubble telescope orbiting Mars in the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter spacecraft called HiRISE, which has like a two-foot, I think it's a two-foot mirror, maybe it's a foot and a half, whatever.
	It's almost as big as Hubble.
	Now, normally it looks down to get really super high magnification images of Mars that show things, you know, a few inches across.
	You turn that baby and look into space at ISON, when it's only six and a half million miles away, you're going to get a spectacular view.
	All right.
	Richard, hold it right there.
	Hold it.
	We've got to take a break.
	And so take a break, we shall.
	Richard C. Hoagland this hour and then Whitley Strieger coming right up.
	I'm going to be right back.
	You know it don't come easy.
	You know it don't come easy You know it don't come easy It's tough to be serious if you wanna see the things that
	You don't have to shout out all the things about you can't You know it don't come easy You know it don't come easy
	you know don't come easy You don't have to shout out all things about you can't even
	blame everything Forget about the past and all your sorrows
	The future looks bright it will soon be your tomorrow From the area of 51, this is the 51st.
	Coming up top of the hour is Whitley Strieger.
	So, let's get directly back to Richard and say, Richard, I'm already on the next photograph, the series of photographs on Artbell.com.
	Alright, Richard C. Hoagland is here. Coming up top of the hour is Whitley Strieger.
	So, let's get directly back to Richard and say, Richard, I'm already on the next photograph.
	These series of photographs on Artbell.com. It's the green.
	It's the green.
	And so, tell me why this comet is turning green.
	Okay, magic number seven, image number seven.
	This is an Earth photograph taken by an exquisite amateur British astronomer named Damien Peach, who has one heck of a website.
	Go Google him and go look at his stunning images.
	He's doing professional Hubble-level stuff with an amateur's telescope from Earth.
	This was a photograph he took a few days ago, and you know, the comet is wonderfully emerald green.
	Why?
	It has to do with chemistry.
	Whatever comets are made of, when they get close to the Sun, the solar ultraviolet light, both the wavelength and the intensity, the brightness, increases.
	The brightness increases as it gets closer and closer.
	There's a magic point reached where the chemicals begin to combine.
	First of all, they have to melt.
	They have to sublime in a vacuum.
	Then they Combine in weird ways, and then they stream off into the background.
	And the green comes from a gas called cyanogen, which is a mixture of carbon and hydrogen.
	And it's related to cyanide.
	It's deadly.
	When we passed through the tale of Halley's Comet back in 1910, there were folks selling comet pills.
	There were other folks... Yeah, really, to ward off the cyanide.
	That'd be over on another radio channel.
	Cyanogen, and they were even selling submarine rides and telling people to take several days worth of provisions so you could stay alive underwater while the rest of the population was gassed to death.
	Needless to say, the amount of cyanogen is a wisp, because the pressures and densities are a trillionth of the Earth's atmosphere.
	So, it's an interesting phenomenon.
	The cyanogen may in fact be a clue as to the real nature of some comets.
	Because not all comets turn green when they approach the Sun.
	So let's move on to number 8.
	This is the one that really blew everybody's mind on the web, you know, a few weeks ago.
	This is a Hubble view from the Hubble Archive.
	And below the image, below the thumbnail, there is a link directly to the Hubble Archive.
	So you can see this is officially in the Hubble Archives of the Hubble Space Telescope.
	This is a close-up with Hubble of the nucleus of comet ISON.
	Showing a stunning, ready for it, tetrahedral 120 degree geometry of apparently three pieces in the nucleus of a comet.
	Except, that's not what you're seeing.
	What you're seeing is geometry created deliberately by NASA at the Hubble Institute for God knows what reason, Art.
	I could speculate, but we don't have time because Whitley's coming up at warp 9, so I've got to move through these fast.
	But the geometry was absolutely unequivocally created by the timing of when the Hubble camera was ordered to take the 442nd each three images that for some reason NASA composited all into one black and white image, which is never done.
	This is not how you do science on comets.
	So somebody at NASA wanted us to see this geometry.
	The geometry has a hidden meaning to someone, somewhere.
	That's another show.
	But it's real, and that's what tells me that me and Brian Williams may have gotten a heads up that something is going to be really interesting about ISON, so keep watching.
	Let's move on to number 9.
	Alright, number 9.
	Number 9 is a close-up of Comet Hartley 2.
	Taken by a NASA spacecraft that was repurposed from colliding with a comet temple a few years ago.
	The spacecraft was renamed Epoxy, having nothing to do with the glue.
	No, no.
	What a name, though.
	It's not a reference to the famous incident of Art gluing his lips together.
	Although, they may actually, deep inside, be chuckling with these secret codes.
	Who knows?
	You know what I've got, Richard?
	I've got an email from somebody telling me they saw a Hoagland dartboard at NASA.
	Really?
	Did they take a picture?
	No.
	Oh, darn.
	They should send me a picture.
	Anyway, so number nine is a close-up taken by the epoxy spacecraft of the nucleus of Hartley-2 in several different spectral filters, showing basically elements coming off the comet.
	The blue one is the water vapor distribution.
	The red one is the dust.
	That's infrared, by the way.
	That's why it's glowing so brightly.
	The green is CO2.
	The kind of whitish one is ice, just scattering of sunlight from ice coming off, because comets are supposed to be mostly water, which sublimes in a vacuum.
	That's your natural model.
	But the interesting question about this portrayal by NASA is, why are the elements ...segregated to various regions on this little tiny object.
	We're talking something that's about a mile across.
	Kind of an elongated, you know, mile-long football.
	And there's no way that a comet forming through accretion in a vacuum back in the solar system, formation days, billions of years ago, could segregate elements to various layers.
	In other words, you wouldn't have the oxygen forming first, then you wouldn't have the CO2 around it, etc., like an onion.
	I have a quick question, Richard, and this is important, I think.
	I've seen a picture of ISON taken recently that shows something out in front of it, just barely in front of it.
	What is that?
	Okay, that was seen in 1957 in a comet called Markov.
	Google comet Markov 1957 and you'll see what's called a sun spike.
	It's an illusion.
	It's a thin plane of dust seen at a key angle That appears to be ahead of the comet, but it's actually a visual projection effect.
	Okay.
	Illusion.
	Remember the McNaught image, several images up showing those beautiful striations?
	I do.
	It's that scene sideways projected ahead of the comet visually from our geometric angle.
	Okay, we've got to wrap up.
	Number 10.
	Go to number 10.
	This is a color close-up of Hartley by the Epoxy spacecraft leaked to me By sources inside NASA.
	What do you see?
	Um... I don't know, Richard.
	It looks honeycombed to me.
	That's a perfect term.
	A comet should not be regularly honeycombed.
	Alright.
	My model is...
	Some comets, not all of them, maybe not even the majority, but some of them could be ancient, derelict spacecraft from the ancient epoch of the solar system when my Type II civilization lived and enjoyed occupation of the planets, the places between the planets, built artificial worlds.
	Remember, this thing is about a mile long.
	And what we're seeing in Hartley is the outgassing in those various elemental colors because of the outgassing into a vacuum through holes in the former hull of the gases that would be used to keep a biosphere and people and trees and all kinds of other stuff alive in a little artificial world measuring about a mile across.
	That's a giant leap, Richard.
	That's why we need three more hours.
	Well, we don't have them.
	Remember, if you've got one artificial ancient object on Mars, everything you assume about the history of the solar system is wrong.
	Everything.
	And must be questioned.
	And so this proposition has to be in the mix along with all the other implications of an ancient artifact on a place where NASA says nothing like that possibly can exist.
	All right.
	Well, you've done it, my friend.
	Thank you very much.
	I appreciate the hour.
	It was a packed hour, but it was a good hour.
	Thank you, Richard.
	Thank you.
	Say hi to Whitley.
	I will, indeed.
	All right.
	Now, watch this transition.
	Whitley Strieber is the author of Communion.
	It's all about communion.
	I'm sure you've read it.
	So many of you had to have read it.
	It's about his close encounter of the third kind, and among the best-selling books in history.
	He's co-author with me of Superstorm, that then became the movie The Day After Tomorrow.
	He is the author of more than 20 other books, including the spiritual classic, The Key, and the largest selling book on the Roswell incident, Majestic.
	Most recently, he has published Alien Hunter in the first of a series of novels about alien and human police working together to catch alien criminals on Earth.
	His current non-fiction is Solving the Communion Enigma, which describes new breakthroughs that could solve the close encounter mystery once and for all.
	His website is unknowncountry.com.
	Providing daily news of the edge, it is also the home of the radio program called Dreamland, founded by Art and Ramona Bell and continued by Whitley to this very day.
	So here, ladies and gentlemen, is Whitley Streber.
	Hey, buddy.
	Welcome to Satellite Radio.
	Yes, sir.
	It's such an extraordinary pleasure to be talking to you again.
	I think I was among your first guests, and here I am again among your first guests in the new program, and I wish you all the best with it, for sure.
	Thank you.
	It's really cool.
	We have so much freedom, so much time.
	When you actually count up the radio show time versus everything else, we were way ahead here.
	Anyway, it's good to have you, and it's hard always to know where to start.
	Well, there's a lot of places to start, and maybe the thing to do is to start with a quick retelling I think we need to, and the reason is Sirius XM has about 27 million subscribers, and a lot of them are new here, never heard you before, Whitley, so there you go.
	Let's retell it.
	Okay, well, what they're going to hear now is something that's very different from what they have been led to believe is true, but We have been the victims of skillful social engineering, and the automatic knee-jerk reaction to reject what I'm about to tell you about is wrong.
	It is a mistake.
	I am telling the truth.
	And all through the show, all night, you will hear somebody telling the truth.
	No matter how strange it seems, just remember, you've been tricked.
	This is the truth.
	What you believed before you heard this, if you did not know that this was really happening, was a skillfully designed lie created to mislead you.
	Now, here's what happened to me.
	And when it happened, I was just exactly where most people are to this day.
	I would have scoffed At anybody who talked about close encounters of the third kind is anything except fiction.
	Actually, Whitley, you know what?
	I don't know what you were doing back then.
	When all this began to happen to you, what were you doing?
	What work?
	I had just finished publishing a book called War Day with my buddy Jim Kinetka.
	We'd written it together.
	I loved War Day.
	Oh, thank you.
	The Big Best Seller, it was a very politically intense book during the height of the Cold War, essentially warning about the danger of limited nuclear war at a time when elements of the U.S.
	government were actually beating the drum for a limited nuclear war because they thought that we would survive and the Russians would be destroyed.
	And the point of the book was to remind people that Limited nuclear war, or any kind of nuclear war, is a really serious business.
	Well, it sure did that.
	It did that, and it made a lot of people extremely angry.
	I received a... Ted Kennedy had backed the book on the floor of the Senate, had read parts of it, and had been a real partisan of the book.
	And about six months before the Communion experience, I received a telephone call from one of his aides, Warning me that someone in the government, I think he said it was Brent Scowcroft, I don't remember, it could have been any number of people, was gunning for me.
	Meaning, I thought, one of those political tax audits, which I would receive shortly thereafter, but in any case, where basically the IRS is told by the politicians, screw around with this individual for a while.
	And, you know, that's all the president's sale.
	We would never do that.
	They all do it.
	I'm not a political partisan here at all.
	I'm not saying the Democrats don't do it.
	They do it.
	I'm not saying the Republicans don't do it.
	They do it.
	And in any case.
	So, that's what I was doing.
	I was heavily involved in that kind of thing.
	I hadn't thought about UFOs since I was a kid.
	Well, I had eaten and breathed and lived and breathed that stuff for a while during the mid-50s.
	One of the boys up the street's father was involved in what was then a famous UFO incident in Texas.
	He saw a UFO in a field, his car stopped, and the whole nine yards happened to him.
	And we were just terribly excited about all of this, of course.
	This UFO was seen all over South Texas on that night, and it was a famous case.
	And so I had known about it, but by the time I was in high school, girls and school and getting a car and getting work and learning to drive, all of that stuff had completely replaced the fantasies of boyhood.
	Let me put it that way.
	And by the time I was in early middle age, raising my own child, working as a writer, very involved in politics and writing and all kinds of stuff at the time, this was not in my universe at all, whatsoever.
	All right.
	Okay.
	So it began when and how?
	Well, in the middle of the night of December the 26th, 1985, let me go back to that time.
	It was a lovely night in upstate New York, about 90 miles north of New York City, not too far from Woodstock.
	Beautiful, wooded, hilly area.
	Beautiful evening.
	The sun set early, of course, dead of winter.
	The snow was falling softly.
	We took a little walk out on the road.
	The cold winter breeze was whistling in the pines.
	It was just gorgeous.
	Then we went to bed.
	At some point during the night, I became aware of noises.
	It was, in fact, quite noisy.
	And I was confused.
	Because, you know, here I am in a cabin in the woods in the middle of nowhere.
	There's 15 miles of just straight woods outside my door.
	Noisy in what way?
	Like people talking and clangs and grunting and thuds and all kinds of things.
	It was just noisy.
	And so I opened my eyes and I did not know where I was.
	I did not understand this.
	I saw what I first thought was some kind of a tent, then a moment later I had a memory of sitting in the woods in the snow with these strange people and going up in an elevator where there was no elevator.
	Something I remembered in a little bit more context when I was later hypnotized by a psychiatrist about this, which I'll get to in a little while.
	Anyway, here I am in this situation and I'm trying to figure out, I'm trying to like Make the bed reappear around me because that's where I'm supposed to be and I'm assuming it's a nightmare.
	A dream or something.
	It's not real.
	It can't be.
	Then, I see this thing.
	It is... It shoots past... toward my feet.
	A dark blue thing.
	Then a few moments later, I see what looks like a gigantic insect darting its face at me.
	And, um...
	Did I get scared?
	Well, no.
	I was completely calm.
	I was no problem whatsoever.
	I'm lying.
	I got terrified.
	Unbelievable.
	The terror was... The book communion, my wife Anne and I, we thought we would call it body terror first because it was about a kind of fear that we had never known, I had never known was possible before.
	It was unbelievably intense.
	Was it paralyzed?
	Would you say it was paralyzing?
	It would know.
	I would have been going like beat 60 if I'd been able to move, but I could not do that.
	Well, that sounds paralyzing.
	I absolutely could not do that.
	The phone is ringing.
	Yeah, I'm sorry, Art.
	I don't know How that happened, I must apologize.
	Somebody dialed the number.
	Well, somebody dialed another number in here.
	I thought I had turned that line off.
	I'm very sorry.
	Anyway, here I am in this situation.
	You said it looked like an insect.
	It looked like a big insect.
	I saw eyes, like big bug eyes, big shiny bug eyes.
	I didn't see anything else initially.
	Now, what begins to happen is a couple of things.
	First, I begin to hear this voice saying, what can we do to help you stop screaming?
	This voice is mechanical and very gentle, female sounding, but it's obviously a machine, some kind of a recording that somebody's made, and it's not reassuring because it doesn't sound human.
	It doesn't quite sound like a machine either, it's just damned weird.
	Damned weird.
	And I was so confused and frightened by it, and I could not move.
	The next thing I see... Did this thing appear and disappear, Whitley?
	Did you have eyes on it the whole time, or what?
	No, I darted around.
	They all were moving so fast, I couldn't see them.
	I mean, I could see them, but only for seconds.
	I didn't have much of a field of vision, I couldn't move my head, I couldn't move anything.
	And I heard this voice off to the side saying this.
	Then, this blue creature that looked like a gigantic, it was almost frog-like, it was strange, with a blue uniform, a lot of flaps on it, like a jumpsuit of some kind, kind of like a working suit, comes up and starts to open a box that has a needle in it.
	And by this time I'm starting to shriek and I get up.
	I yell out something along the lines of, you're going to ruin a beautiful mind.
	You're going to ruin my mind because I'm getting ready to stick this thing in the side of my head, which it does do.
	Ruin your night?
	It's going to ruin your life!
	Mind!
	Mind!
	I said mind!
	Oh, mind, okay.
	Mind!
	Oh, no!
	My night is done!
	It was ruined already!
	That night was ruined!
	I was going to say, hold on, Whitley.
	We do have a break here.
	We've got lots of time on satellite radio, but occasional breaks.
	Insect eyes.
	I don't like the sound of that.
	Big.
	Insect.
	Eyes.
	And blue?
	Not a good color.
	I'm Art Bell and this is Dark Matter with Whitley Strieber.
	Once upon a time, once when you were mine I remember your shinings reflected in your eyes
	I wonder where you are I remember your shinings reflected in your eyes
	I remember your shinings reflected in your eyes I remember your shinings reflected in your eyes
	I remember your shinings reflected in your eyes And in the streets I'm a wheel, in the trees a crown of
	leaves.
	When the ash and dark and the virgin hue, my trust in rhythm's fair.
	When I was called the breathless moon in the blue veil of the night.
	The shadow of sound, the trees appear, amidst the lantern light.
	Space, the new frontier for Art Bell's dark matter.
	To call the show, please dial 1-855-REAL-UFO.
	That's 1-855-732-5836.
	Real UFO. That's 1-855-732-5836.
	You know, the music kind of sets it for me.
	I don't know about you, but it sure does me.
	It sets the mood.
	And I'm in the mood, all right?
	So we've got this insect-like creature, bluish, above Whitley, who's in bed, terrified, with a needle headed toward his head, I guess, and that's kind of where we left it.
	Whitley, I don't know how you tell this story without Without breaking down.
	Honestly, I don't.
	Well, I've told the story a lot of times, Art.
	I mean, quite a lot of times.
	I've gone far beyond the story.
	I mean, there's much, much more.
	This is just the core story that we're retelling here for the listeners who have never heard it before, which you apparently have some of.
	So let us continue.
	Here we are.
	Here I am.
	I am in this, what I thought at this point was a tent.
	And because it had sort of gray walls, it was kind of circular and quite small.
	How did you get there?
	I mean, suddenly you found it?
	I have no idea.
	Well, I do have a vague, I had a vague memory the next morning of being carried by somebody, by people.
	It had not yet occurred to me that anything, I mean, the next morning, let me go, before we go into that, let me go back to where we were, because the next thing that happened was extraordinary and terrible.
	I have subsequently learned a lot about what it was that happened, but what I initially felt was that something was pushed into me, anally, which has become a famous joke.
	The joke about the rectal probe that the South Park... So that's where it came from?
	That's where it came from, yeah, exactly.
	However, I would like to mention to the listeners just in passing, those who are snickering happily at this story, that it took me more than 20 years to even tell my wife what the doctor had told me about five or six days afterwards when I had gone to him.
	He told me, he said, you have been raped.
	Those were his words.
	And I was not able to say that.
	As a result of which, I became a national laughing stock.
	I completely understand, Willie.
	I completely understand.
	Really, I do.
	And I've seen all the jokes about it.
	I've seen what Cartman said.
	All the rest of it.
	But you know what?
	That's what it is, is rape.
	And there's nothing funny about that.
	React to it as something funny when we first talked about this on the radio, which was very refreshing because I had gone on television show and radio program, television show and radio program again and again and again for two or three years.
	And every time I went on, I was laughed at for being raped.
	And I was not in a good state psychologically by that time.
	I wanted to Do the same to some of the morons who had done this to me, who had been laughing at me.
	And I, as I recall, the gentleman who writes South Park actually did an interview in which they bragged about having used me as a role model, but not in such a way that I could sue them.
	They had been given legal advice.
	Sure.
	And I thought that was just extraordinarily cruel.
	Well, plus you're a public person.
	Well, exactly.
	Once you're a public person in the U.S., forget it as far as that kind of thing is concerned.
	The bar changes.
	You're gonna get... the sky's the limit and anything goes.
	Well, actually, not quite everything, as I was able to prove.
	But pretty much anything goes.
	You're an exception.
	But not exactly, because you see, in your case, it's a different story.
	I mean, there are some people involved in it who weren't public people, and so on and so forth.
	But anyway, here's the next thing I remember clearly.
	Was the next morning, and there's a lot of, the next morning I wake up and I thought of, there was something had gone on and I said to my wife, uh, did you notice anything unusual during the night?
	She said, no, it was quiet.
	And so I figured maybe it was a nightmare.
	And I had a feeling or sort of sense of there being, having been some kind of ruckus.
	And I was very uneasy during the day.
	I didn't, it was not in pain yet.
	I would, that would happen.
	Um, I was working on something, a story or something, and that would later become important, but in any case... So the next day, your memories were foggy of what happened?
	They were foggy.
	I mean, something had gone wrong.
	I was very clear on that.
	But I couldn't figure out what it could have been, because, you know, I ended up sleeping right beside me, and there was absolutely nothing wrong.
	And there was nothing wrong in the house.
	My child was fine.
	No one had broken in.
	And toward evening, I became frightened.
	I became terribly frightened.
	And I'd been basically frightened all fall.
	I had, in October, I had bought an alarm system from Radio Shack and installed it.
	I had become obsessed.
	I had bought guns.
	I was marching around the house at night with a shotgun in my hand.
	And in the middle of the woods where, you know, no crime had been committed since the Indians had been No, I'd have one too.
	Do you have a memory of when that needle went into your head?
	Oh yeah, I have vivid memories of all of it.
	The first thing that happened was the next, not that day, but the day after.
	First that night, as the night fell, I got very frightened, and I decided that an owl had come into the house, and sitting right beside me right now, she probably remembers this very well, she's nodding, I said, I think maybe an owl got in during the night, and she said, how could an owl get in?
	And I realized that was true.
	I mean, we didn't even have a chimney.
	We had a wood stove.
	But you know, an owl's not going to come down the chimney of a wood stove that's lit, and their windows were all shut, so no owl.
	The night came, and it was terrible.
	I could not sleep.
	Finally, I got to sleep.
	And the next day, I'm sitting there working, and I begin to hurt my My rectum starts to hurt, my head starts to hurt.
	And they're hurting a lot, and I'm aware of the fact at this point, I have been in some way assaulted.
	I just can't remember it clearly.
	So, I go to the doctor a couple days later.
	And he goes through this, he examines me, he says, well this little thing on your head is probably a spider bite, sort of looks like to me.
	And then he says, he looks at me and examines me and says, well, you know, you do know that you've been raped.
	And I thought, holy God, how can this be?
	And then I immediately, that evening, driving back up to the country house from the doctor's office in New York, I began to remember that I had been in the woods with a group of people.
	And I remembered one of them in particular was an old friend.
	And I don't know if I've put this in Communion or not.
	It's in the new book, Solving the Communion Enigma, because I got it figured out later.
	And I remembered him in the woods.
	So when I got home, I went and looked around in the woods trying to figure out.
	It was very snowy.
	I figured out some indication of where I had been or seen him or what.
	No success.
	And I began to think, you know, well, he was, he joined, we were college friends, he joined the Central Intelligence Agency.
	I had heard from him off and on over the years, but not much.
	And I thought to myself, my God!
	Wait a minute.
	The Kennedy guy says to me, and they're gunning for me, now this happens, did somebody come in here and drug me?
	Is that what happened?
	And if so, this son of a bitch knows about it.
	So, this is the... At this point, I'm also... I start trying to get a hold of him.
	Because I had his phone number in his home, and I can't get it disconnected.
	I forgot figures, you know, the bastard.
	And I'm running after him.
	It's a crime.
	At this point, I'm also going down another path.
	my brother had given me a book about UFOs for Christmas, and I was reading this book,
	and that got me to talking to Bud Hopkins, who was a huge UFO investigator at the time,
	and he introduced me. He wanted to hypnotize me, and I said, oh no, forget it. If anyone
	hypnotizes me, it has to be a true professional. So to his credit, he found Dr. Donald Klein,
	Who was the head of the New York State Department of Psychiatry at the time, and had been a forensic hypnotist for years at that point in his career.
	He'd solved over 70 cases using memory-based hypnosis.
	Of course, after Communion came out, there were hundreds of media stories about how hypnosis is this and hypnosis is that.
	All crap.
	It works perfectly well forensically, it's worked forensically for years, and it is a Perfectly adequate means of recovering lost memories.
	Okay, that said, one of the best professionals in the world would hypnotize me shortly thereafter.
	But anyway, getting back to this business with a friend.
	Yeah, so far I fully understand your reaction.
	Yeah.
	You know, after that report with the doctor and recognizing this guy, young as you, go after him hard as you can.
	So I figure I'm sort of a meet-the-doctor.
	We're kind of laughing up our sleeves at Butt, who very sincerely believes I've been abducted by aliens.
	I have to tell you, I was thinking that, you know, this guy is a fool, but the doctor is really good.
	So I got into hypnosis with the doctor.
	I remembered things that I regarded as utterly impossible.
	They were essentially the same things that had been in my mind that had been troubling me because it was like a psychotic break, okay?
	I mean, it was just bizarre.
	And I'm having this... You were recorded during hypnosis?
	Oh yeah, the recordings are available on my website.
	Okay.
	The recordings of the hypnosis sessions are available on my website.
	The UnknownCountry.com.
	I think you have to be a subscriber to listen to them, but that's another story.
	It's amazing to me that you would put them up there.
	Well, I put them up there because this is the truth.
	This is all the truth.
	Whether it's about aliens or not, we'll get to that.
	But it's the truth.
	Now, back to the doctor's office.
	I have this bizarre couple of hypnosis sessions, and I leave this thinking, He thought that I had been the victim of a crime and that these bug, insect faces would turn out to be people that we could perhaps identify.
	So, I'm left with the bugs and no idea of what's going on.
	It seems completely crazy to me.
	And so I now zero in on the CIA guy.
	I figure he's got to be responsible.
	He shot me up with LSD or whatever.
	I don't take drugs.
	I know nothing, very little about it.
	He's the only one you recognize, so where else to go?
	Sure.
	So, here is what happened, finally.
	I finally tracked him down and found out he'd been dead since the previous March, when I saw him in my woods.
	And I thought to myself, oh boy, you are going insane.
	You have lost it.
	I want to be clear.
	I'm sorry, Whitley.
	You're saying he had been dead since the incident?
	No, no.
	Long before the incident.
	Long before.
	See, nine months before.
	The previous March.
	March of 85.
	And here it is now, early 86, nearly a year later.
	The guy was dead when I saw him.
	He'd been long dead.
	Okay.
	Okay, now table that for a minute.
	I then start with MRI scans, with tests for temporal lobe epilepsy, with every kind of test you could imagine.
	I even took lie detector tests to see if I was lying to myself.
	And in the end, I was left face to face with the unknown.
	I had to face the fact that I did not know what happened to me.
	And as damned crazy as it seemed, Bud Hopkins' explanation was the best one out there.
	How did you do with the lie detector tests?
	Fine!
	I took a number of them.
	I took two of them from the guy who did lie detector tests for the New York City Police Department.
	And then I took another for the BBC in London because they wouldn't let me go on the BBC unless I took a lie detector test and signed a document stating that no matter the outcome, I would go on the air with it.
	And I passed that one too.
	I passed all the tests.
	My MRIs were normal.
	I did not have temporal lobe epilepsy.
	Although a few years later, apparently, I've been Led to believe it might have been the US Air Force and some of their little social engineering projects that they should not be engaging in, but probably do.
	It placed a fake story in Parade Magazine saying that I had admitted I had Temporal Lobe Epilepsy and made a big contribution to the Epilepsy Foundation.
	They did that right before I put out my book, Confirmation, which was critical of the Air Force for keeping secrets it should not keep, in my opinion.
	So, that was out there.
	In any case, I didn't have any diseases.
	I was perfectly healthy.
	I didn't even have high blood pressure.
	There was one thing that was noticed, and that was I took an extensive bank of psychological tests, and the psychologist said, you are under extreme tension.
	You are under very high levels of stress, and you should definitely Do something about that, because this level of stress that you're under, which is showing up in these tests, is not normal, even for a person who is in a stressful situation.
	It's most unusual.
	And ten years later, I took the same test, and I was still under the same stress.
	I guess I'm good at handling stress.
	In any case, so, at this point, I became very compulsive about this thing.
	I started going out into the woods at night from the house with my wife, terrified of what might happen to me.
	And neither one of us understanding what was going on, very frightened for our child.
	But I couldn't stop.
	I couldn't stop going to the country house.
	I couldn't stop going in the woods.
	She would not let me go up alone.
	And eventually, along about March or April, These little creatures started to come back.
	You know, you said you became compulsive about it and went into the woods.
	I mean, isn't that, I don't know, almost inviting it?
	It was absolutely inviting it.
	That was my intention.
	Because I figured this, whatever happened was one of the most extraordinary and unusual things that's ever happened to anybody.
	And I'm not going to run away from it, for God's sake.
	I'm a writer.
	I'm going to write about it.
	I'm going to go out in those woods, and I'm going to get this thing figured out.
	I'm going to nail it down.
	What was Anne, your wife, saying to you in this period?
	I mean, she had to be worried at all kinds of levels about you, so how did she feel?
	Well, initially, when I thought I was going insane, I tried to get her to divorce me, and we had fights.
	An incredibly courageous person.
	Anne is a... She fought for her marriage, she fought for my sanity, and when she realized what was really going on, she fought and has continued to fight to this day on behalf of this truth.
	And when we started to get mail after Communion came out, back in the letter days when there were still letters and people weren't just dashing off emails all the time, There were real letters, physical letters.
	We got them by the bagful, by the thousands, by the tens of thousands, finally by the hundreds of thousands over a period of twenty years.
	Again and again and again, people telling their stories from all over the world.
	And Anne is a speed reader.
	She's very brilliant.
	She read these letters.
	She read them all.
	She created a chart which she kept on the wall in her office.
	And that On that chart, eventually there appeared the phrase, which has gotten me in a lot of trouble with the UFO community.
	They want this to be aliens and silver flying saucers from another planet who are coming and sampling our DNA and whatever else they're doing.
	She said, and I'm quoting her, this has something to do with what we call death.
	And Here's why she said that.
	I am not the only person to see a dead friend in connection with this experience.
	That's commonplace.
	You'll never hear that from the UFO investigators, but it's commonplace.
	It's ordinary.
	It is in letter after letter after letter.
	And when we began to have groups of people up at our cabin, And had group experiences, very complex experiences with these visitors.
	They showed up.
	They bought into this effort I was making.
	They came.
	They were there off and on for 11 years, Art.
	11 years!
	Okay, it has something to do with death, Woodley.
	That's really interesting.
	And, okay, have you come to understand what it has to do with death?
	Well, let me tell you a story.
	Because that's how I live and how I communicate in stories, as you know.
	Sure, sure.
	Okay.
	I am sitting in my office one day.
	Phone rings.
	It's my agents.
	William Morris Agency in New York.
	They say there is a man desperately trying to get a hold of you, Mr. Streeper.
	And I thought to myself, he said he's a member of the public, and I thought, you know, I'm pretty well hidden.
	If this guy has found my Literary agency he's trying real hard and there must be he says it's terribly important, and he's desperate so I call it He tells me this story His wife in their bedroom.
	I mean in their living room their old dog is asleep at the on the heart night 10 o'clock or so at night Suddenly the dog becomes very agitated and the dog Needs to go out again the second time very unusual for the stock The wife takes the dog out as she's opening the front door.
	She sees a fireball race off across the sky and disappear beyond the pine trees around their house.
	She turns back to her husband and says, I just saw a plane going down in flames.
	You're going to get a call because he's with the FAA.
	Right.
	At that moment, their little seven-year-old boy comes running downstairs saying, Mommy, Daddy, Mommy, Daddy.
	Little blue men.
	Note this.
	Little blue men.
	Familiar?
	I've seen them.
	Little blue men, same guys, came into my room and they had Bobby, his older brother, with them.
	And he said to tell you he's alright.
	This is why this desperate father had made this call.
	The boy, the older boy, the teenager, had died in an auto accident the week before.
	He wanted to know and he asked me, can you tell me if anyone else has ever had an experience remotely like this?
	Do I have any reason to believe this?
	And I said to him, I have.
	And many others have.
	It's ordinary.
	This is going to be disturbing to so many people on so many levels.
	On so many levels.
	It means this.
	The soul is real.
	There is an afterlife.
	And not only that, we aren't alone in it.
	That all of these cherished beliefs we have about heavens and hells, or the Bill Maher conceit that this is it, and we don't have to worry about it anymore when we die, we're dead, we're just pieces of meat, all of that, all of it, both the believers and the non-believers, it's all out the window.
	Because the truth is, we do have an afterlife.
	But we don't know a thing about it.
	We don't have the straight story in any way, in my opinion, judging from what I have seen and heard myself, and seen and heard from thousands of other witnesses.
	Wow.
	That's the truth of it.
	Alright, that's a big wow.
	Hold it right there.
	I'll do the break, and we'll come back.
	That's a good place to break, or a bad place, depending on how you look at it.
	Wow.
	There is an afterlife, but not the one we've been taught about.
	All right, the Senta Ally Bluetooth Speaker.
	Not an easy transition from Whitley.
	This is a remarkable product.
	It's hard to sell because it's hard to describe, in a sense.
	It's about nine inches long.
	And there is a lot packed into that nine inches.
	It's just remarkable.
	It's a speaker.
	All right?
	And much more.
	But think of it as a speaker that will produce sound that is wonderful.
	If you're used to hearing, you know, your little cell phone or your tablet or whatever.
	Pretty tinny audio, right?
	But you've got all your favorite music there, so if you don't have headphones on, how are you going to hear the music properly?
	This is the answer, right here.
	The Senta Ally Bluetooth, that's right, Bluetooth speaker.
	When you get it, you can mate it up with whatever you want.
	Your cell phone, your tablet, it's even got a built-in FM radio, by the way.
	It's got rechargeable batteries.
	It will last about, get this folks, 10 hours.
	So, you made it up with your cell phone, and all of a sudden, just like that, that fast, your favorite music is coming out of the Senta Ally.
	And it sounds like, I don't know, it sounds like a big hi-fi stereo.
	And it's just this little thing that you can carry.
	In fact, it comes with a carrying case.
	So, Bluetooth to anything you want.
	Built-in FM radio.
	That's just sort of a gigantic bonus.
	And it works wirelessly with whatever you've got, including a satellite radio.
	Anything else you can name.
	It might have a Bluetooth connectivity, and if it doesn't, there's a little one-eighth inch cord you can plug in from whatever it is, like a, say, a satellite radio.
	And then you're all set.
	You will get this, and you will show it to one of your friends, and I guarantee you, that friend will go, I want one.
	Or I'm going to take that one.
	And I'll pay you for it.
	It's $69.95.
	It's that good.
	The Center Ally Bluetooth Speaker.
	You should call the Sea Crane Company right this minute and order one.
	Trust me on this.
	You'll be the hit of any gathering you're around.
	You know, you show it to people, they go berserk.
	The number is 1-800-522-8863.
	I'm going to give you the number again, and again you can call it right now and order the Senta Ally Bluetooth Speaker.
	1-800-522-8863.
	The Sea Crane Company.
	522-8863. The C. Crane Company.
	All right, with us tonight is Whitley Streeter.
	And his story is, you know, on the one hand I want to say like no other.
	And really it is like no other, except Whitley's telling you, and I'm telling you,
	that many others have experienced some portion of or what he did.
	So it's not as uncommon as you think.
	But it is scary.
	This is dark matter.
	I can feel it coming in the air tonight, hold on Now I've been waiting for this moment for all my life, oh
	lord I can feel it coming in the air tonight, hold on
	Now I've been waiting for this moment for all my life, oh lord
	Well I think it's time to get ready to realize just what I have found
	I have seen only half of what I am, it's all clear to me now
	My heart is on fire, my soul's like a wheel that's turning My love is alive, my love is alive, yeah yeah yeah
	Dark Matter, much like Sirius XM, is all around you.
	To beam up with us, please dial 1-855-REAL-UFO.
	That's 1-855-732-5836.
	No, don't call yet.
	Just make note of the number, and I'll let you know when we're gonna go to the lines.
	My guest is Whitley Streber, and I've gotta tell you, I've sat and I've thought about this in the last few moments, and...
	If what had happened to Whitley happened to me, I'm not at all sure that I would have come forward.
	I guess I would have gone to the doctor.
	I would have chased that guy who we now learned had actually died earlier.
	But maybe that's where I would have stopped.
	I don't know that I would have been going into the woods nightly I don't know that I would have told a soul, save perhaps my wife.
	I really thought hard about this.
	I don't think that I would have told people this story.
	That takes a lot of courage.
	Well, you know Art, if looking back now, I definitely would not have done this.
	If I had known what it would be like, what my life would be like having done it, I never, and what my family would have gone through, never.
	But at the time, it didn't seem Like, it's that.
	It seemed like a rather unusual and fascinating story.
	My publisher probably knew that it would be a bigger sensation than I did, but we both thought it had happened to maybe 50 people in the world, and I had by that time met Bob Hopkins' group of abductees and you know uh... we just did he thought that was maybe a
	couple hundred people i thought fifty i thought maybe he knew about half of the
	people twenty five or so that happened to it
	because nobody ever talked about it was nothing about it at all
	i had no idea what what happened i don't know what you just told me about death uh... the
	association with death really got to me and
	And here's somebody, Tim, is sending me a message who says, is it possible, could there be a connection with John Lear's assertion that aliens are using the soul catcher technology when humans pass on?
	And John has said something like that.
	Oh Lord, may it not be so.
	I have no idea whether or not anything called soul-catcher technology even exists, or such a thing could be real.
	Well, it's just a phrase, but I mean, it obviously has a connection to aliens and to our soul and to death.
	Well, a couple of things are very clear.
	One is, there is a lot of this connection and a lot of reports From not only from people who had encounters with their dead friends and relatives at my cabin, in the context of contact with the Greys, but also in the letters.
	And there aren't any where there are any people from the other side who are desperate for help or screaming that they've been trapped or anything like that.
	Of course, if there's some that have been trapped, then we're obviously not going to know.
	We're not going to hear from them because they're trapped.
	Right.
	Let me give you an example.
	And this is someone who's been on the air with me, and she's mentioned by name in my book, Insolving Community Enigma.
	She's borne witness to this, both of these people whose names I'll mention have many times.
	These are not people who are shy about this at all.
	First one is Lori Barnes.
	Lori is a... Ann has... My wife is... She doesn't realize it.
	She's got a... She's a psychic, but she's a non...
	A non-aware of her psychic powers.
	Psychic.
	And she got Laurie, she was reading the letters and she said suddenly, I need a secretary and this lady is going to be the secretary.
	It turned out she lived in Manhattan, across the street from us.
	And she was also an excellent secretary.
	So she came into our life and brought her in and they worked on the letters together for years.
	And she'd come up to the cabin.
	And one time, Anne said, I'm going to get a group of people up at the cabin who will come together, and the visitors are going to come when they're there.
	And so she got Anne, she got Laurie Barnes, she got another lady called Raven Dana, who'd had a lot of contact experience with a number of other people.
	And this was the second big group we'd had up there, so we knew it could work.
	And the first thing that happened in that was in the late afternoon, Laurie's out walking on the road by herself.
	And suddenly, She sees a man standing in the road.
	It's her brother.
	Now, this is something big in her life, because her brother's disappeared from the face of the earth 20 years before, and the FBI had given up on the case.
	And suddenly, there he is, standing in the road, and she says, you're back!
	He's wearing this sort of brown cowl-like thing, which immediately sort of makes her think this is not a normal experience.
	And he says, I just wanted to tell you that I'm fine.
	Whereupon, he lifts off and sort of floats back into the woods and disappears.
	She comes back to the house in what could be described as a state of agitation and tells the story.
	We're all fascinated.
	But it's typical of the story.
	You notice the boy in the house, the story I told earlier, I'm tell mom and dad I'm all right.
	I just want you to know I'm all right.
	Another case at the cabin, this is another very complex experience with 17 people in the cabin, including a magazine editor from a big magazine, who has promised that if the visitors show up, he will write about it in his magazine.
	They do show up, he does see them, then he says, I can't write about it, it'll ruin my career.
	I was up against that kind of pressure.
	Well, he might have.
	He certainly might have.
	But why did he make the promise to them and to me?
	Why make a promise you can't keep?
	Well, you know what?
	When you're making a promise like that, never in a million years do you think it's really going to happen.
	So you make it easily, and you think you're going to write about, well... Yeah, exactly.
	Well, it's like the old Life magazine.
	I had a friend, Timothy Greenfield Saunders, The first person I ever told this story to was a famous photographer in New York, and he decided he wanted to do a story for Life Magazine about this.
	And we traveled all around the country to different places where these people had had experiences, and at the end of it, in Gulf Breeze, Florida, he and Ann and I saw this marvelously beautiful UFO!
	And so we had this picture and everything for Life Magazine.
	They had expected us to say, we went around and we didn't see a single thing.
	Ho, ho, ho.
	End of story.
	Instead, we said, we not only saw a UFO, we have a picture of it.
	They wouldn't run it.
	They wouldn't run the story.
	And they said, well, our audience is very religious, and they won't take kindly to this story now, so we won't run it.
	Well, I hate to say I understand, but I actually do.
	I do too, and I find it very disturbing that we are collectively kind of turned away from the truth.
	But once you face the truth, it feels so good and so right.
	But anyway, let's go back to Laurie and to these other incidents.
	This next incident happened before Laurie.
	The visitors show up in the living room.
	While the magazine editor and three other people are lying there on couches and cots, not asleep, of course.
	I mean, who's going to sleep on a night like that?
	Obviously, it's about two o'clock in the morning.
	And suddenly one of them says, I can't move.
	And they all can't move.
	But they can still talk.
	And there are the blue guys are in there jumping around like the Flying Karamazov Brothers, jumping around in the living room.
	Meanwhile, down in the basement, there's a couple.
	In a more private context, because they're a recently married young couple, as I recall.
	And they wake up because the room is filled with light, suddenly.
	And there, standing at the foot of the bed, is a friend of theirs from Mexico.
	One of them was Mexican.
	And from Mexico, who had died in the Mexico City earthquake of 1983, and this was like 1988 or 89.
	And she says, I'd like you to know that I'm alright.
	Is she standing there big as life?
	Well, that'll certainly modify a newlywed moment.
	Yeah, well, they had their honeymoon.
	For sure.
	In any case, this is typical of these experiences.
	The encounters with the dead come in the context of encounters especially with the little blue guys.
	And this thing, Art, it's not secret.
	It's that we don't choose to look.
	Let me tell you another story.
	This happened to a psychologist.
	He is driving on the Grand Central Parkway in New York, in Queens, near LaGuardia Airport.
	And suddenly he sees a plane coming toward him in the altitude of 300 or 200 feet.
	A huge jet looks like it's going to land on the highway.
	It's missed the runway and is somehow or another landing on the highway and he thinks, holy God, we're all going to be killed.
	Sure, sure.
	It goes over at nosebleed altitude, and as it's going over, he realizes this is not a real airplane.
	The engines aren't real.
	They're solid.
	Something is very wrong here.
	And he slows down, he starts to pull over because he's in shock.
	He doesn't, does anybody else see it?
	Then he sees cars parked on the roadside.
	He says, yes, people have seen this thing.
	He gets out and he sees this strange thing on the roadside, up on a little berm above the road, like a billboard with strange symbols passing across it, like one of those lighted signs in Times Square.
	And there are people walking through the dark under it, and they're kind of beginning to gather and stand in a circle.
	And he's, what the hell?
	He goes over there, and they are standing there, and he starts to try to join the circle.
	All of a sudden, he finds himself surrounded by these short, Very dark blue figures who strike him as being tough as nails.
	And yes, I agree with that.
	I've had some experiences with them.
	These guys are not fooling around.
	They may fool with the soul, but they're not fooling around.
	And one of them snarls at him and says, Get out of here!
	He turns around.
	He goes back to his car.
	He gets in his car.
	He goes home.
	That's what I would have done.
	Yeah, now I put that story in Breakthrough, I believe, one of my books.
	And I got letters from people, other people, who had been on the highway and seen it happen.
	Now, it happened on a highway in New York.
	How often does that happen?
	And nobody says anything, nobody remembers.
	This is life!
	I don't know, how often does any of what you've been talking about happen?
	All the time.
	And I think so, and then not be told.
	You know, I'd be so hesitant to say anything, Woodley.
	I'd really be hesitant.
	I mean, I debated with myself until the cows came home after I saw that big triangle UFO.
	I came so close to not telling it because, you know, I was up in the air, I was talking about this kind of stuff and I sounded foolish, yeah.
	There's some part of us deep inside us that wants to keep this thing undercover.
	We believe we have been programmed somehow to keep this secret.
	And people will hate you.
	They'll eat you alive.
	They'll do anything, anything to keep this under wraps.
	Especially when it comes close to them.
	When they hear the tone of truth in someone's voice.
	They don't want to hear that.
	It makes them mad.
	Mr. Whitley, with regard to what I saw, the only thing that made me feel better, and I
	did, I made the decision to tell it first and went on the air with it and all the rest
	of it, what made me feel better was that within a week a newspaper article came out saying
	that I wasn't the only one, that people all across the valley had seen this same mysterious
	And, oh, they said it was a C-130, which was ridiculous.
	But, you know, to hear that other people saw it made me feel so good.
	Yeah, it does feel good.
	And it made me feel good to get all those letters, too.
	Because all of a sudden I was realizing, Not only was I not the only one, but I was actually not having the strangest experiences, or the scariest.
	Well, what you had will do for me.
	Well, listen, you want to be, I can take you down any path you want to go in terms of strangeness and weirdness.
	Even in my own likeness, solving communion, which by the way, nobody read.
	It's out there.
	If you can want it, you can get it.
	It's an e-book.
	You can get it at a bookstore.
	Possibly, if they carry it.
	Most bookstores won't even carry my books because it's Whitley Strieber.
	You know, you don't want to carry his book.
	He's a liar.
	People hate the truth.
	They love a lie.
	You know, you go out on the UFO circuit and you tell lies, you'll get a thousand people in the auditorium listening to your lies.
	Well, I see where the UFO community starts to have a problem with what you're saying.
	You know, when you start mixing souls in with this... We don't want the soul.
	The soul is very unfashionable right now.
	I mean, the soul is... We're meat.
	We're scientists in the UFO community.
	We're scientists, too.
	We don't want to talk about souls.
	Oh, God!
	That's a last thing.
	We want to be believed here.
	Well, if you tell the truth, you can forget being believed.
	It ain't going to happen.
	Except for a few people.
	It's already difficult when you're talking about aliens.
	That's hard enough.
	Yeah.
	When you start combining it with the kind of experience you had, and then dead folks... I can go beyond this.
	I can go farther out and still be telling the truth.
	Well, go where you need to go.
	Go wherever you want.
	Let's go back to Lori Barnes.
	Tell you another experience she had.
	This was in 1954.
	She's now, at this point in her life, she's a young woman.
	She's pregnant.
	She's at home alone one night.
	Her husband is an entertainer.
	He works at night.
	And all of a sudden, she hears a noise and looks up.
	And to her horror, these little dark blue figures Yes.
	standing in a row, in a line beside her bed. Horrible creatures, like frog-like.
	You know what they remind me of? Remember the movie Ghost?
	Ah, yes.
	The person who wrote that movie had an unconscious knowledge of these creatures,
	because the creatures that come up in that movie are like these guys.
	Anyway, that's aside. Let's go back to Lori. And she's shocked beyond words.
	I mean, she's pregnant with her baby, and these monsters are suddenly in the room.
	And she's terrified.
	One of the front puts its hand on her arm and says, do not be afraid.
	We are not here because of you.
	We are interested in the girl child you're carrying, which is, as Lori said, didn't reassure
	me at all.
	And she said, and this is the key part, she said, and listen closely, my God, you're so
	ugly.
	Bye.
	And he said, one day, my dear, you will look just like us.
	So are you ready, Art, for your next time around?
	I don't know, I don't know.
	I'm telling you.
	We're just starting out.
	We can go way down the road.
	Into another level of reality.
	Into another kind of truth.
	Okay.
	Jeff asks the following.
	Could it be possible that these abductees aren't seeing deceased people, but could it be that the abductors are using their memories to calm them somehow during this experience?
	A deception on some level to calm them or to deceive them into believing something about this that isn't true.
	Yes, of course it could be.
	Of course.
	I'm not going to defend this in that way.
	What I'm saying is the truth is something extremely strange is happening.
	This is real.
	This is the truth.
	What it is.
	And what it actually all means in the final analysis, that question I cannot answer.
	Well, certainly it is very reasonable, I think, to ask if perhaps these creatures are looking into your brain.
	Hold on.
	Oh, absolutely!
	Okay, we've got a break here.
	And looking and finding something familiar and then presenting you with that so that you don't lose your mind on the spot.
	You're listening to Dark Matter.
	I'm Mark Bell.
	I'm a writer.
	A little driving on a Saturday night.
	Come walk with me.
	On a down the day way.
	Jenny will see.
	She always smiles for the people she meets.
	I was a highway man.
	Along the coach roads I did ride.
	I was a highway man.
	Along the coach roads I did ride.
	I was a highway man.
	Along the coach roads I did ride.
	you With sword and pistol by my side Many a young maid lost her baubles to my trade Many a soldier shed his lifeblood on my blade The bastards hung me in the spring of forty-five But I am still alive
	I was a sailor.
	I was born upon the tide.
	With the sea I did abide.
	I sailed the school around the Horn of Mexico.
	I went aloft to furl the mainsail in a blow.
	And when the yards broke off they said that I got killed But I'm living still I was a dam builder across the river deep and wide Where steel and water didn't collide A place called Boulder on the wild Colorado I slipped and fell into the wet concrete below.
	They buried me in that grey tomb that knows no sound.
	But I am still a brand.
	Want to take a ride?
	To call Dark Matter with Art Bell and be part of the Sirius XM's VLS, Very Large Signal.
	Please call 1-855-REAL-UFO.
	That's 1-855-732-5836.
	Around and around.
	What's it going to be like next time?
	seven three two five eight three six around and around What's it gonna be like next time?
	Some songs are just so right Whitley. Welcome back Hello Whitley
	Hello, Art.
	Right.
	Around and around.
	Well, what's it going to be like next time?
	I wonder, too.
	You have an incredibly beautiful family, by the way.
	Thank you.
	That daughter, she is something special.
	Something else, yeah, I know.
	Oh, my.
	And such a nice wife.
	Oh, my.
	Still working on This Time Round.
	That's right.
	You're in it.
	Deep in it, in the middle of life.
	So you take me down, yeah, you take me down any road you want.
	All right, well, why don't we do this?
	Solving the Munin Enigma.
	I went back over the life that Ann and I have spent together because I had noticed something interesting.
	I had noticed that in my childhood I had some very weird experiences that I wrote about in a book called The Secret School.
	I had completely forgotten them until I, under hypnosis with Dr. Klein, he noticed a change in my tone of voice.
	And I was telling about seeing these beings when I'd been on a train.
	I was listening to myself talking.
	You know, you're sort of detached from yourself when you're being hypnotized by a real pro.
	And he suddenly says, how old are you?
	And I heard my voice from my little Texas childhood voice when I was A kid, and I heard my voice just pops right out of my mouth without me even realizing it.
	Twelve.
	And I thought, holy God!
	So, anyway, I had done that, but this all was out of my life, as I said before, from the time of about twelve until it happened again in 85.
	But Anne and I, when we were working on solving Community Enigma, we were going over The things that had happened in our life together, and I realized something.
	This started up again as soon as we met and got together.
	That was the catalyst for it starting up again.
	And it started very strangely and very subtly with some odd experiences.
	We lived on West 55th Street in Manhattan in an area called Clinton.
	Pretty ramshackle in those days.
	We had no money.
	I mean, we were a couple of just broke kids.
	And, uh, yeah, I'm sure it's a familiar, familiar experience for you and many others.
	Anyway, we had a stereo and it was on one night, but not playing anything.
	It was just, you know, the tuner was on, which you sometimes, you leave the tuner on.
	And suddenly a voice came out of the tuner and started talking to us.
	And It there was a brief exchange of sort of banal exchange like it said hello and I said hello and it said something like how are you as a male voice young male voice and I said I'm fine who is this and then it said I know something else about you I said what and it was just silent nothing more said then a couple of days later
	I was going up in the elevator and this kind of this lady she never struck me as crazy or anything who lived in the building was in it and she was all sort of hunched up she looked very uneasy and she was coming up from the from the basement where there was a laundry room and she said there's something wrong with somebody living in this building he looks like a corpse Oh boy, that's all we need.
	And so I go on upstairs and I sort of forget about it.
	That night, I hear this strange kind of like someone rubbing on our door, sort of like they're rubbing their hands on the door and it's making this kind of hissing sound and that goes away after a while.
	And finally, and it's been quiet for a while, I hear voices and I open the door and I look out and there's this Blood on the wall, a streak of blood, like a long, you know, fingerprint of blood going down the stairwell.
	And I followed all the way down to the bottom floor where there's a crowd of people from the other floors who've seen it all, come in and out and seen this, and they've all gone down into the lobby and the cops show up and they try to question our superintendent who spoke No language.
	He didn't speak either.
	He sounded like he, to a person who spoke English, he sounded like someone with a very thick Spanish accent.
	But to someone who spoke Spanish, he didn't speak Spanish either.
	So we all knew that, but the cops didn't.
	They couldn't get anything out of him.
	And finally, the cop that spoke Spanish says he doesn't speak any language.
	So they said, no, we think he does not.
	Anyway, it was never figured out.
	They cleaned up the building.
	But then, a couple of nights later, I'm going to the Put out the trash and I hear this noise from the floor below.
	This sort of funny noise that was like a noise.
	I go down there and coming around the corner is this apparition.
	It is like rotted.
	The teeth are showing like a person who's been dead for a couple of months, and the teeth are just unbelievably frightening looking, sort of jerking itself along, coming along the hallway.
	And I run upstairs immediately, and a second later, it's in our hallway.
	I run in, I close the door, lock the door, and the door is sort of pushed against for a while.
	And then it goes away.
	Oh, God.
	You know, it sounds like something that in modern literature has to be shot in the head to die.
	Oh, God.
	Well, anyway.
	You know, but here's the thing.
	And you find this, I found this in talking to a lot of the people who wrote these extraordinary letters.
	When it happens to you, it feels ordinary.
	And it happened to me.
	It happened to people in my building.
	It was weird, but you know, we were living it.
	We were with it.
	We were in it.
	We were kind of living with it.
	And, uh, uh, we, uh, we, uh, anyway, what happened was I went out in the alley to look up because they had come out of the apartment immediately below ours.
	I was pretty sure.
	And the apartment was board, the windows were boarded up from the inside.
	You could see there was plywood on all the windows.
	And, uh, so I call a landlord and I say there's this very unpleasant and weird person living in here.
	He's boarded up all of his windows.
	I want to know what's going on.
	And he said, is this the apartment below you?
	And I said, yeah, 7H.
	He says, there's nobody living there.
	It's empty.
	It's, it's, it's vacant right now.
	I said, no, it's not.
	There's somebody living in there and they boarded up the windows.
	He said, no, he said, all right, I'm sending, I'll send someone over there today and we will Clean this place up.
	They get in there.
	It's a mess, apparently.
	The windows are all boarded up.
	There has been someone living in there.
	They're not there now.
	They unboard the windows.
	They clean the place up.
	And eventually, it's rented again.
	And who knows what happened?
	But he was gone.
	Well, good.
	Good for gone.
	The court's moved.
	Coming back to the aliens for a moment and the dead.
	Yeah.
	Very interesting.
	You know, it just occurred to me when somebody named Ira sent me a wormhole message that said, isn't that what they did in Contact by using Ellie's father?
	Remember the end of Contact?
	The movie Contact?
	I'm working.
	I'm not remembering the movie.
	Oh, the Carl Sagan movie.
	Oh, how could you forget?
	Yes, the Carl Sagan movie, of course.
	Well, at the end, remember, she was reunited with her father, who had passed away.
	That's right.
	Carl Sagan knew a lot of stuff about this.
	I had a couple of conversations with him, and I knew some people who were very close to him.
	And he didn't say a lot about a lot of what he knew.
	I think probably because it was sort of hearsay, and he couldn't prove it, or Who knows, maybe he was an insider like some people say, I don't know.
	But he had, I'm not surprised.
	I'm not at all surprised.
	Can you describe in some detail, I mean a lot of what you've said I think has contributed to the modern conception of what a gray is.
	Yeah.
	Can you describe I mean, is it like the greys of the movies?
	You know, shape of the head, shape of the eyes, the body size, is that for real?
	Smaller than you think.
	Smaller?
	Smaller, yeah, smaller than you think, and with capabilities that you do not expect.
	I'll give you an example.
	One of the buildings, one of the houses in our little neighborhood where our cabin was, there were about six or seven other houses there at the time, Just, it was just being developed.
	And, uh, they're still, they're now about 12 houses.
	It wasn't a very big development.
	But, in any case, the house is just being closed in.
	Closed up and finished up.
	Finished out, as they say.
	Roof's been put on it, and one of the workmen's got all of his tools in there, so he decides he's going to stay in there for the night with his tools, because he can't move them out until the morning, because there's a big lot of tools, and his co-worker is Got the truck, so he's there with his car, and he stays there the night.
	He is awakened in the middle of the night, and he's horrified to see this little creature in the room, in the same type of creature that Raven Dana would see in our cabin a little while, a few years later, which is a story I haven't told yet, but we'll get to.
	In any case, he sees this thing, and it's about three feet tall, With the big eyes, and it's standing there like a deer caught in headlights.
	He experiences a terrific burst of fear, which you can understand.
	I mean, because an animal, unlike any animal he has ever seen before, is inside the house with him in the middle of the night, and he's all alone!
	Of course.
	And not only that, it's dark, and he can't See it all that well.
	He grabs his flashlight and turns the flashlight on.
	Shines it on this thing for a couple of seconds.
	Whereupon, it turns into what looks to him like a bird of paradise.
	A bird.
	That happened in our cabin too.
	It was a different type of bird.
	And it disappears by going straight out through the closed doors, right through the glass, without breaking it.
	Tools or no tools?
	He gets in his car and goes home.
	Immediately later, he came the next day and got his tools.
	He told me this story after he read Communion.
	But I might say, incidentally, speaking of that, on the night it happened, there was a witness.
	This I did not know until years after the book was published.
	I wish I had known.
	The witness was a friend who lived in the same area.
	He was the guy who was building the houses.
	A good friend at the time, in fact.
	He and his wife were coming home from a party.
	This was during Christmas time, and there were a lot of parties, at about 2 o'clock in the morning.
	And they saw, in a field near our houses, what looked to him like the Goodyear blimp, down in a field.
	And here he is a, uh, a trooper.
	So he figures, I'm going to stop and, and this thing has crashed.
	I'm going to stop and help, see if I can help anybody.
	Pulls over, goes out into the field, and he begins to hear someone screaming inside this thing.
	So he starts to run toward it.
	All of a sudden, it bright, it's lit with bright lights.
	he can no longer hear the screaming and it starts coming toward him making a growling noise like
	and his wife goes into a hissy fit and completely freaks out in the car of course i mean as you
	want to understand and he figures this is perhaps not for me after all since it does seems to be
	under under control and he goes back to the car and he drives away he reads communion about a
	year later and about a year after that he says to me you know whitley i've got to tell you something
	i'm very ashamed to tell you about but i was there on the night this happened to you i
	I saw it.
	And I ran.
	And I said to him, good for you, smart move!
	He was relieved to hear that, but I was glad, I was sad that I hadn't ever had him He was not willing to go witness.
	By that time, he had retired from the troopers, but he was not willing to bear witness publicly.
	I can understand that.
	You know what?
	Maybe it's time to take a second and talk about witnesses.
	Whitley, you've got an implant.
	They implanted you at some Point.
	Somebody did.
	Yes, during one of these experiences.
	Yeah, I can tell you all about it.
	I was wide awake.
	Implant in your ear, correct?
	In May of 1989, that's correct.
	It says May of 1984.
	Alright, you tell me about how it happened and then we'll discuss the witnesses that I know about.
	I will tell you precisely what happened.
	It was a May evening, it was warm.
	The windows were open in our bedroom.
	About 1130 at night, I was up reading and he was asleep.
	I had just turned out the light when I noticed a figure standing in the doorway of the room,
	which was at the foot of the bed, about 10 feet across or 15 feet across the bedroom.
	Now, the situation is this.
	This is a new cabin.
	Bigger.
	Uh, there is a bank of lights which is beside the bed which I can flip on and completely flood the outside of the cabin with floodlights all around the cabin.
	Underneath the bed is a loaded Benelli riot gun in the bedside table.
	Is a little pistol, an AMT backup.
	A difficult pistol to use, but I do know how to use it.
	And I'm with you all the way.
	I'd have guns too.
	Well, exactly.
	So I'm good with this pistol.
	I know both of my weapons, and I know how to use them.
	And I'm willing.
	So, I see these two people.
	I've just turned out the lights within a few minutes.
	Standing up.
	People, people, a woman, and behind her, a man.
	They are standing there.
	And now, but this time I was not afraid of the little gray guys.
	I would not have thought of, uh, I was meditating with them and stuff.
	I would not have dreamed of coming after them with a gun, but this was people and I was scared because I figured someone's coming after me, which had already happened a number of times.
	Um, and, uh, I hear in the backyard voice say very quietly conditioned, right?
	Oh, I forgot.
	I was disturbed by the sound of gravel crunching in the driveway right before all of this happened, of the sound of a car moving silently toward the house.
	In other words, it was someone who had gotten past our locked gate and fencing and everything, and that was not good news.
	So I was ready to turn on the lights when I saw the people.
	Then I decided, change of plan, go for the shotgun.
	The next moment, I'm lying on my side, literally, Had been going for the shotgun, and I can't move, and I can't see.
	I can still hear, and I can still feel.
	The woman's voice is saying something gentle and soothing.
	I don't know what it was.
	I've never been able to remember it.
	The man, apparently the man, I assume it was the man, is pressing something against the side of my head.
	And pushing it down, like, into the... He's pressing against my left temple and ear, and almost pushing my head down into the pillow.
	Then it ends, and I leap up, grab the shotgun.
	There's all this crashing in the woods.
	There's a big flash of light.
	I turn on all the floods.
	I grab the shotgun.
	The alarm system is still armed.
	It's still red.
	It's not been disturbed.
	I run through the whole house.
	I even go up through the attic.
	I do everything down in the basement.
	Nothing.
	Every window is closed.
	Every door is locked.
	I finally go back to bed thinking there must have been some kind of bizarre, vivid nightmare or something.
	Again, I'm always the type of person who always looks for one of these ordinary explanations, even though I don't get those much.
	Anyway, I sort of sleep, get up in the morning, tell Ann the story, start to go out and get the paper.
	I usually drive out and get the paper every morning to a little newsstand a couple miles away.
	So I get in the car.
	I notice immediately that the garage door is wide open, even though the alarm system is still armed.
	I disarm the system.
	I get in the car.
	The car is filled with static electricity.
	I think it is probably going to blow up on me.
	I jump out of the car again and run back into the house.
	Everything seems okay then.
	The car gets okay after a few minutes, 15 or 20 minutes.
	I call the alarm guy and I say there's something wrong with the system.
	The garage door was wide open, but the alarms was not He comes over immediately.
	He's a friend.
	We know each other pretty well.
	He comes over and he tests the system and there's this enormously powerful magnetic field around the switch on the garage door.
	The thing is, the magnetic field has to be generated by something.
	It's not like a radio wave.
	Of course.
	But there's nothing there.
	There's nothing there except this little dinky magnet that's part of the switch, and it's like the magnet has been just supercharged somehow.
	We can't figure it out.
	He finally shifts it out, puts in a new thing in the system, and it's working fine.
	Not quite the end of the story.
	Here's what happens next.
	A couple days later, my ear starts hurting, and I feel my ear, and there's a bump in it.
	Where the heck did that come from?
	So I go to the doctor.
	He says he thinks it's a little cyst.
	I do not think it's a little cyst.
	I know about implants at this point.
	And I don't say anything like that to him.
	Eventually I end up with another doctor who is willing to take it out.
	And he's been on coast with me, and you in fact.
	We'll get to that in a moment.
	You've also had instances, have you not, Whitley, where you're Ear will suddenly turn beet red.
	It turned on at the Southwest Research Institute in San Antonio in the presence of the Director of Materials Science, Dr. William Mallow.
	He saw it happen.
	He saw it.
	He rushed me into a signals acquisition laboratory, and they said they couldn't pick up any signal from it, but the problem is the lab is funded More than 50% by the Central Intelligence, by the intelligence community.
	So who knows whether they picked up anything or not.
	They wouldn't necessarily be able to even tell me.
	Okay, well you went to the doctor and they opened it up.
	They thought it was a little cyst.
	Did they do any imaging at all before they opened you up?
	Yeah, they did an x-ray and it was shadowy on the x-ray.
	You couldn't see, it didn't look like what it was at all.
	Let me put it that way.
	All right, but they knew something was there.
	Now, I should just rush ahead and tell the audience, look, I had Dr. Roger Lear on.
	I had the surgeon who operated on Whitley on.
	I can't recall his name.
	Dr. John Lerman was his name.
	Okay, fine.
	And they both came on together and said, look, we opened up Whitley, his ear, And we went after this thing, and I know that I'm not exaggerating when I say the surgeon told us on air that as they approached this item, when they had you open, and he took the scalpel and went to actually cut where this thing was and remove it, and the damn thing moved.
	Yeah, that's right.
	Into an area where they said they didn't want to keep going because it was getting, I guess, near something very sensitive.
	No, it wasn't sensitive.
	It moved from the top of my ear all the way down to my earlobe and the doctor said, I'd have to cut your whole ear off to get it.
	Exactly.
	In other words, they didn't want to chase it with a scalpel.
	Right.
	I mean, I didn't want to either.
	I want the ear.
	But that was a surgeon, folks, on my program who said this happened.
	Right.
	It happened, and the tape of the operation is, again, it's on my website, the video of him actually doing the surgery with Ann nervously laughing in the background, and then he says it's a white disc, and a few seconds later he sees it disappear.
	You can see it all happen.
	Right.
	Anyway, he got a corner of it, and that went to the pathology lab.
	A couple days later, the pathologist calls him up.
	Now, at this point, this is still down in the bottom of my right ear.
	Understand, when it was put in, there was no scar whatsoever.
	There was no incision mark.
	There was nothing.
	But afterwards, it was just as smooth.
	It's like I'm feeling it right now as we're talking.
	It's still there.
	Anyway, the pathologist calls him and says, is this a practical joke?
	He says, no, it came out of a patient.
	He said, because this is not Natural.
	This is a piece of technology.
	It's a piece of, it has a metallic base, and there are cilia, a protonaceous material growing out of that base, and these cilia are motile.
	They were moving.
	They weren't anymore, but they had been, he thought.
	And, of course, the cilia were what enabled it to move.
	Now, a couple days later, it had moved from the earlobe Back up into the top of my ear, where it could remain to this day, because I got afraid of taking it out again, despite Roger Lear's many, many efforts to get me to take it out, try to take it out again.
	I don't want to try.
	I'm scared to.
	I don't blame you a bit.
	One time's enough.
	If you can't catch it with a scalpel, don't have the race.
	Right, exactly.
	And I was just thinking, did it move for its safety?
	For my safety, or for both of our safeties.
	I don't know.
	And I can't find out.
	And I'm not gonna tempt that again.
	So, there it sits.
	And what effect, to this day, is there anything that... It still turns on once the blue moon... It turns on.
	What do you feel, or what senses do you... You hear a clanging noise in the ear, and it's ear gets hot and turns bright red.
	All right, hold tight, hold tight.
	Stay right there.
	So, you know, the surgeon came on and told me all about it.
	That's pretty strong evidence in my mind, along with Dr. Roger Lear.
	I mean, very, very strong evidence.
	This is just strange stuff.
	But then again, this is Dark Matter.
	What do you do when you get lonely?
	Oh, I'm waiting by your side.
	You've been rough.
	I don't know what you want.
	You always just do what you can.
	Yeah, love.
	Just you to understand, yeah, yeah.
	Got me on my knees.
	All our times have come.
	We're put down and gone.
	The seasons don't feel the rebirth.
	No, do the wind, the sun, or the rain.
	We can be right there.
	So come on, baby.
	Don't feel the rebirth.
	Baby, take my hand.
	Don't feel the rebirth.
	Baby, I'm your man.
	It's XM, baby, and we're very serious.
	To call Archbell, please manipulate your communication device and call 1-855-REAL-UFO.
	That's 1-855-732-5836.
	That's 1-855-732-5836.
	That's the number, and I'll tell you what, back in Washington, D.C.
	Clear the lines.
	Let's take some calls.
	That'll take a few moments, so we'll clear the lines.
	They'll begin to ring.
	And I've got a couple of things I want to touch on with Whitley, and then we'll begin to take calls.
	What a story!
	If this doesn't get you and grip you, I don't know what will.
	The number to call is a simple one, 855-REAL-UFO.
	That's 855-REAL-UFO, or put the other way, 1-855-732-5836.
	That's 855-732-5836.
	Alright.
	Whitley, here's what I want to raise with you.
	put the other way, 1-855-732-5836. That's 855-732-5836.
	Alright.
	Whitley, here's what I want to raise with you. One criticism that people would have
	of you is that you've made a lot of money with this story.
	Now, it's true.
	I mean, you're a writer.
	You took off.
	You wrote Communion, a giant bestseller.
	You and I wrote a book.
	In other words, you've written and written about these experiences, and you've done very well by them.
	And that always makes people suspicious.
	My answer would be, what would you expect a guy to do?
	He's a writer.
	But why don't you go ahead and tell us your take on that?
	Well, first of all, the money illusion.
	Here's my take on that.
	Yes, I made a nice piece of money for communion.
	But then there followed the many years, which you are aware of, of not making any money at all because once South Park's pilot came out, my sales ended because nobody wants to buy a book by a guy who is a laughingstock.
	Nobody.
	The result is my sales dropped, the first year after it came out, 70%.
	Now, by looking back, I'm down, on an average book I sell, about 3% of what I sold before I wrote Communion, before I even published Communion.
	Nobody bought Solving the Communion Enigma, and nobody will, because it's by Whitley Strieber.
	I'm hoping that people will be interested enough in Alien Hunter to buy it.
	It's a wonderful book.
	I'm hoping they will change their minds and buy Alien Hunter and realize that just because you're telling the truth doesn't mean you should be tuned out.
	It means you should be tuned in.
	In any case, I lost the cabin.
	I went bankrupt.
	I have spent many years past the money, and I'm still telling this story.
	And I won't stop.
	Because what happened to me, the way I was rejected, made me furious.
	And I'm just not going to stop.
	It would me too.
	It would make me very angry.
	I mean, you remember in the old days I would come on that show, on your show, literally desperate to do something that would make a little bit of money so that I could keep my roof over my head.
	I mean, we went from being wealthy, a wealthy writer, that I write communion, that lasts for a few years, and the whole thing is in a shambles because I wrote communion.
	I'm the communion man.
	I'm the rectal probe man.
	I am the laughingstock.
	How ironic.
	That must have been very hurtful.
	It wasn't hurtful so much as infuriating, because, you know, these books, Communion, Transformation, Breakthrough, The Secret School, Confirmation, Sovereign, Communion, Enigma, they're true!
	And you'd think people would eat that up, but they run away from it.
	But you put out some UFO book that's full of lies, and it becomes a bestseller.
	You know, that's really... I thought to myself, well, maybe they thought I was lying when I wrote Communion, and that's why everybody bought it, and then they realized, oh no, he's telling the truth, we can't buy those anymore.
	But that's not quite right.
	People get fooled, and by experts.
	There are people in the government, and I think outside of it, too, called social engineers, who are social scientists, who, like, if you go on YouTube, you can find some of their work very easily.
	And look at UFO videos on YouTube.
	The better videos will have these real internet troll type of comments on them.
	And often, if you click on that individual, you'll find he's just a name.
	He's never done anything else.
	He's just sitting there.
	And he's been put there by a social engineer.
	He's not real.
	It's not a real person.
	Two, for the purpose of creating the impression that the public thinks this is all ridiculous.
	But the public does not think that.
	The public is willing, ready, and able to listen.
	But they don't get the chance, like solving the community.
	You'd never see it in a bookstore because the bookstore owners believe Whitley Strieber created a literary hoax, he's a liar, He doesn't deserve to be on our shelves.
	They've been duped.
	They're the victims of social engineering.
	Victims.
	Because remember this.
	You know, the disclosure people always say, well, we're going to get disclosure, we're going to do this, we're going to... Forget it!
	It is never going to happen, and I'll tell you why.
	I told them this, there's one of them out there, I won't say the name, it's not Steve Greer, who is...
	Tries to pretend that the abductees and the close encounter witnesses don't exist.
	I told this individual, I said, look, this is what will happen.
	If he, this individual, is trying to get a statement from NASA where they will say that simply that some of the objects that are observed in the sky may be under intelligent control.
	Not even that they're aliens.
	Not anything like that.
	And I said, it's never going to happen.
	Because no matter what they say, they're exactly two steps away from the question, well, what about these people who say they are being abducted?
	And that is a question the government does not want to deal with.
	Because the answer is, we can't stop it.
	And we're not going to tell you what it is, even if we did know and we don't know.
	Okay.
	The number is 855-REAL-UFO, and you're on the air with Whitley Strieber.
	Hi.
	Hello.
	How's it going, Art Bell?
	Very well, thank you.
	Yeah.
	Area 51's to you.
	And, uh, Mr., uh, Weaver.
	I've got a question.
	Strieber.
	Strieber.
	Whitley Strieber.
	I really need to talk to him if he can't even pronounce my name.
	I'm sorry.
	I'm sorry.
	Well, try it.
	Say Strieber, and I'll answer.
	Strieber.
	You don't want to say it.
	So what's your question?
	I'm one of these people that have never had one of these experiences, and I'm kind of curious, is there a specific type of person that has them, or can anybody have them?
	Well, that's actually a reasonable question, and I stand corrected, because I thought that you were going to come after me.
	And that's a very good question, and I have Part of an answer.
	And this is what it is.
	That when you get a large group of these people together, you find out something very interesting about them.
	They're all very mild-mannered.
	The ones I've had take IQ tests are generally pretty smart.
	They're generally not all that well-educated.
	In other words, they don't have college degrees, etc.
	and so forth.
	So they're bright people, kind of in the ordinary walk of life.
	And they're mild people.
	They're not the kind of people you would expect to have a fight.
	I'm one of the more belligerent ones, actually.
	But in any case, that would be one thing.
	And another thing is this.
	We noticed this when we were working with the letters.
	We'd make long lists of the names of these people, and there were an awful lot of Irish and Scottish-type names in there.
	And we found That the groups of people who this happened most often to were people of Celtic descent, people of Native American descent, people of Jewish descent, and people of black descent.
	One time I was with a black family.
	They had five generations with a great-great-grandmother over a hundred years old, all of whom had experiences.
	It was amazing.
	I'm sorry, caller.
	I cut him off by mistake.
	Whitley, I don't think people are going to come in after you.
	Not on this program.
	Okay, well, I'm ready.
	We've got kind of a different group.
	Well, be ready for them.
	I will not be argumentative.
	I'll be good.
	I'll be very, very nice.
	I'll be very polite and sweet, which I am often not on the air, as you know.
	Yeah, I know, but I don't think you need to worry about these people.
	Really, I don't.
	I'm going to assume that they're all wonderful people and we're going to have a lovely time.
	Bring them on.
	I hope you're right.
	All right, you're on the air with Whitley Strieber.
	Hi.
	Hey.
	Whitley?
	Yes, ma'am.
	Or is it sir?
	It's ma'am.
	It's Emily.
	I talked to you back in 01 in Hawaii.
	And you had called me about some films I sent you, and I just wanted to thank you for being so personable and hospitable about it.
	You and Anne had looked at them, and I've had several encounters, and a lot of films went here, there, and everywhere, and you were the only one that responded, and I appreciate that.
	And in 07, my son and I moved back to East Texas, and I had a face-to-face encounter with a giant Bigfoot.
	And you talked about people laughing and making fun of you.
	I know exactly what you're saying because it happens to me.
	I just kind of keep it under my wraps here.
	But I just wanted to touch base with you.
	And I love you.
	I love your work.
	I understand where you've been and what you're doing as much as I possibly can.
	Well, thank you.
	Thank you.
	And I certainly know where you're coming from with a bigfoot experience.
	Any of these experiences, folks, I would not recommend you tell this to anyone.
	Too many bad stories about that.
	Or at least, you know, think really, really hard before you do it.
	Yeah.
	Because there's a lot coming.
	Around the office or at work or because people will go after you.
	Well, exactly.
	I mean, you're going to have to expect a certain amount of ridicule is the word.
	Yeah.
	And that's what it is.
	You're on the air with Whitley Strieber.
	Good evening.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Oh, hi.
	Hi, Art.
	Minnie Roswell to you, sir.
	I'm actually a very new listener.
	I've only listened to three shows now and I love it.
	I'm addicted.
	I drive a truck and I don't even drive throughout the night.
	I just listen to you just to listen to you.
	Mr. Whitley, I have to say that honestly, I've never actually found the anal probing to be humorous.
	I've always found it as a serious matter.
	Of course it's a serious matter!
	Of course it's serious!
	I could never understand why people could make light of a situation such as yours when I was listening to your story in the beginning.
	I've never had a UFO encounter.
	I've always been, not skeptical, I've always been I've always been interested in UFOs and aliens and abductions and sightings and things of that nature and now that I have this resource, it's just amazing.
	I've been looking at all the websites and I've been browsing yours and I'm thinking of subscribing but my question actually is as far as the implant that is in your ear, you said that you've had two surgeries, correct?
	One.
	One, one.
	Okay, so one surgery and it would move.
	Yeah, like the one I told you about.
	I had the surgeon on the air.
	He said it moved, period.
	Yes, yes, sir.
	And is there, I mean, have you thought of maybe alternative ways, possibly like freezing?
	I'm not saying, like before the surgery, you know, somehow immobilize, immobilizing it.
	Actually, that's a pretty interesting question.
	Yeah, it is an interesting question, but I'm not so sure how interested I am in freezing my year enough to where the thing would not move.
	But here's the bigger issue.
	What happens to me if it's taken out?
	Because I can't answer that question.
	It could be I'll be better.
	It could be I'll be worse.
	Maybe much worse.
	I don't know the answer, and without knowing the answer, I'd like to wait until I'm damn well finished with this life before I take another shot at it.
	That may be when you learn about the next chapter.
	Who knows?
	Let's see, you're on the air with Whitley Streber, hello.
	Hello?
	Hello, it's Dark Matter, you're on the air.
	Hi, this is Tim calling from Louisiana.
	Hi there.
	Hi, Art Roswell to you.
	This is true.
	You're a fascinating story.
	The reason I'm calling is I had something to share.
	I didn't know it, but you kept mentioning communion throughout the program, and then it just rang a bell.
	And so I Googled it, looked it up, and communion 1987, was that when it was published?
	Is that correct?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	My little brother, my mother, one day, I grew up in Sturgis, Michigan, and we grew up in about two acres of property with multiple cornfields around us.
	And he was six years old.
	And my other brothers and I have got four brothers.
	We were all at school.
	And my mom was out hanging laundry.
	And she had seen like a dark shadow or something like that.
	Excuse me.
	Or something.
	But we had a bunch of walnut trees and everything in our yard.
	So she just thought it was maybe clouds or something casting a shadow.
	And something told her something, you know, wasn't right.
	I don't know.
	I can't remember exactly how she described it.
	She looked to her left, and my little brother William always, always stood by her side and wanted to help with the laundry, but he was gone, and she couldn't find him.
	Well, she ran around like some brush that's in our yard and stuff like that, and there he was staring up at the sky.
	She went over there and told him not to run, you know, run away anymore.
	Are you guys still with me?
	Oh, yeah.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	So she took him inside and nothing became anything, you know, the rest of the day until we got home and then she asked us to watch my little brother and she went to the store and then she made some other errands and she came back home and when she got back home, you know, one of our favorite things was, you know, to go through the bags and see what mom got, you know.
	And I was digging through the bags and I took this book out and it happened to be your book.
	I think this was around spring of 87?
	That would be about when it was published, yeah.
	Yeah.
	So I took it, it might have been a summer, I took the book and I put it on the counter and I was looking at it and I go, oh, what is that?
	And I was like, oh, I've seen those on television, you know, that's an alien or something, you know, whatever.
	And I made a comment about it to my mom and then we didn't think anything of it, you know, put the groceries away and stuff like that.
	And then all of a sudden we were all, you know, kind of like walking through and my little brother was staring at it and he was laughing.
	And he said, I know that man, and this is a true story, I'm 43 years old and I don't tell lies and I've never seen any UFOs in my life.
	But come to find out, when my little brother took off from my mom's side that day, there was a craft in the air, and he said that he saw that man in that craft.
	Oh my God.
	That would be you, Whitley.
	Me?
	No, no, no, no.
	No, no, he means the front cover, not the back.
	Yes.
	Oh, okay.
	Front cover.
	Anyway, I thought I would call and share that.
	I believe you.
	I totally believe you.
	I follow this stuff.
	I try to.
	I'm fascinated with it, but I've never seen anything myself.
	Maybe someday I will, but I never want to have to go through the experience that you went through.
	Anyway, Roswell's again to you guys.
	Thanks for taking my call.
	Thank you very much for the story.
	I thought he saw you.
	Yeah, well, that's happened too, but so far... It wouldn't surprise me as many times as you've experienced that somebody would see you in transport I think that we are all involved in this.
	I don't think it's just certain people.
	I think certain people remember it or are allowed to remember it, but I think it's part of human life.
	The idea that aliens came here recently and started the anomalous, it doesn't wash with me.
	I think this is part of what we are.
	Oh, I think so.
	And I think it goes back since, well, when people were writing on rocks, carving on rocks.
	Absolutely.
	From time immemorial.
	And we are part of, well, you know, we're caterpillars and they're butterflies.
	And I guess if you were a caterpillar and saw a butterfly, you might find it very disturbing looking.
	And we find these guys pretty hideous.
	Uh, what that fella said to Lori Barnes, one day, my dear, you will look just like us, I think is the future of many of us.
	Also very disturbing from my point of view.
	You're on the air with Whitley Schreber.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	It's me.
	It is.
	Well, what do you know?
	Oh, Roswell's and Stoney's.
	Tell you how much we missed you in that distance.
	I was wondering if you've heard of Riley Martin?
	He does another talk show on Sirius on 101 on Tuesdays, and he's wrote a book, The Coming of Tan.
	He said he was abducted as a child.
	It's been years, and they finally gave him his memories back, and now he remembers everything.
	Man, he's got a long story to tell.
	Have you heard of him?
	No, I have not.
	He hadn't, huh?
	Actually, I have.
	I have, yes.
	I've heard of him.
	I have not heard the show, but another experiencer, apparently.
	Well, that's great.
	I mean, he has a show and everything.
	It's a good sign, maybe.
	People start to get used to this.
	Well, we're hoping so.
	I mean, I figure there's got to be somebody else out there.
	You know, we can't be alone in this universe.
	There's somebody else in here, too.
	I really, Woodley, I just don't think that people are going to, no matter how we tell it, they're just going to be too uncomfortable to accept it, particularly in the way you've laid it out with the dead.
	That part really... But that's what it's all about.
	Well, I guess so.
	And thinking back on what somebody said here, John Lear really did reference all of this.
	It may not be quite the same thing, but it's the same track.
	Yeah, it's sort of the same track, except it's a very negative reference to it.
	And I'm not so sure that it is all negative.
	I think that if you've got heavy things on your soul, you should think carefully about that.
	You know, my wife's on our website.
	She's been really working on.
	She had a near-death experience in 2004 that taught her that you need to give up the burdens of life, the hates and the angers and all those things.
	She's written some beautiful diaries in the Anne's Diary section of UnknownCountry.com about forgiveness and how to forgive yourself and others.
	I think that's a very important part of This whole experience of being human.
	I've come to learn that too, Woodley, but it's easier said than done.
	Well, it is easier.
	It's very hard to do.
	It's very hard to really do it.
	But, you know, I think if we die heavy, it's not so good.
	I think we should die as light as we can when our time comes.
	I think that's part of the message of Our experience is certainly an experience, and maybe part of what our message about the soul is about, that the soul is very real, and it is why we're here, and we need to live compassionate and forgiving lives, and that's hard to do.
	It's harder to do than it sounds.
	All right.
	You're on the air with Whitley Strieber.
	Good evening or morning, whatever.
	Yes.
	Yeah, this is Bob.
	I was wondering, I've got kind of a two-fold question.
	Is there any way that these little blue guys, did you summon them in or did they just happen?
	And I was wondering if maybe they're... Wait a minute, please repeat your question.
	What about the little blue guys?
	Is there any way to get them to come to you, or do they just show up, and are they related to these shadow people I've heard you talk about before?
	Well, I don't know about that, but is it really a good question?
	Okay.
	Yeah, I think it is.
	We were able to get these beings, and there's two types that are in my life, or a third type also, I will say, these tall blondes.
	Creatures.
	But that's another story.
	Part of my story.
	In any case, the two that are the most alien-looking are these little, short, very short, dark blue creatures and the very fragile, gray-colored creatures with the big eyes.
	There's two different types.
	And they often come together.
	And in my life and in the lives of many, many other Close Encounter Witnesses, Now, Anne was able to, a couple of times, two or three times, to get groups of people to the cabin, and they would, the visitors showed up definitely, and no questions whatsoever about it, and complex, elaborate experiences that were not hallucinations or dreams on anybody's part.
	Mostly, when they came, they just came.
	Now, I spent many years meditating.
	I meditate daily.
	I was doing that when this started.
	I was open to it, and I was there for it.
	How important is that?
	If you want this to happen, God forbid, I don't know why anybody would want this to happen, but if you do, is meditation One direction to go?
	I think meditation is important.
	I mean, there are people out there who will make you pay a lot of money to go out and shoot laser beams, laser pointers at the sky and stuff.
	But I think it's a much more personal and deeper experience.
	Now, I've meditated for, what, 30 years?
	25 years?
	20 years?
	I guess it's been maybe 85, 75?
	I've been meditating for about 20 years before this happened in my life, and I wasn't looking for it when it did.
	I was open, though, and I guess they sensed that, or were aware of it, or saw it in some way.
	But then, subsequently, when I was learning to communicate with them, meditation was absolutely essential.
	And in the last three years of our time at the cabin, I meditated nightly with group of
	Someone's I don't know what they were exactly but Literally consider what you've said tonight
	You got raped you had an implant put in your ear You've had experiences that I don't think anybody would
	want to have why would anybody want this?
	And I keep going toward it and art the answer to that question is
	Very hard for me also Why didn't I?
	Immediately sell the cabinet or burn the damn thing down and never go back
	I Don't know
	Why I am?
	compelled to do this except that I
	Just since
	And I can't get away from this That it's about the truth, and it's terribly important, and
	I I won't quit I keep hoping
	That at some time in the future, maybe long after I'm gone, it's like Bud Hopkins used to hope, that this will come into focus in some way, and that all of the effort that I have expended, and that others, so many others have expended, and that the struggles that the close encounter witnesses have had in their lives, will all turn out to be worth it.
	that we will turn out to have created a foundation that the future can build on.
	That's what I hope.
	I hope you're right, Woodley.
	I hope I am.
	I really hope you're right.
	Alright, hold tight.
	We'll take a break here.
	It's hard to even understand why somebody would be compelled to continue to seek this out after everything he described.
	It's beyond my ability to digest.
	This is Dark Matter.
	Riders on the storm.
	Riders on the storm.
	Into this house we're born.
	Into this world we're thrown The World Is Yours
	White Bird in a golden cage On a winter's day
	In the rain White Bird in a golden cage
	Alone The leaves blow
	Across the long black road To the darkened sky
	In its range But the White Bird
	Just sits in her cage Unknown
	To be part of Dark Matter this night, please direct your finger digits to dial 1-800-9-1-800.
	one eight five five real ufo that's one eight five five seven three two five
	I'm here.
	eight three six that is a number my guest is with the street and the story is very very
	serious continue to take calls uh... there's stopped
	like court would and so what we have to bear we're going to go right back to
	phones here
	here we go uh... you're on the air with whitley streber and dark
	matter good evening Hello?
	Yes, can you hear me?
	I hear you.
	Great.
	Willie, this summer, I listened to an interview you did with a gentleman by the name of, I believe, David Politis?
	Yes.
	It made me go out and buy all three of his books, and you wrote, I think, the fourth to the third one.
	And it was a terrifying interview.
	It was very interesting material, and I was just wondering, Um, since you kind of took that on and obviously seem interested in supporting this gentleman, do you have any thoughts to maybe people who go missing are involved in some of what you've experienced or?
	Yeah, I have thought that.
	I have thought that there are some people who maybe go into this and don't come back.
	That has concerned me a lot.
	And while David's stories don't have any There's nothing in any of them that would indicate that that does happen.
	I'm not so sure I see why it wouldn't.
	In other words, I have a feeling that there may be some people who go deeply into this.
	I know a few cases of people who have gone into it in another way.
	The visitors have come deep into their lives and they kind of roll up the carpet.
	In other words, they go way back in the woods and live very simply and quietly by themselves.
	You've been talking about how this is so scary and so on and so forth, but there's another side to this, and that's that once you get past the Hard stuff if you do, which I eventually did, obviously.
	I wouldn't have kept doing it.
	It becomes like being part of a larger world.
	It's an extraordinary, beautiful experience on the one hand.
	Now, on the other hand, one of the stories that David has in one of his books took place a young guy, kid, was out partying in the woods and at night and when the party was over and everybody had gone home, he was no longer there.
	He was gone.
	And he stayed gone.
	There's never been a trace of him found.
	That happened a couple of miles from the cabin where I used to go out in the woods all the time.
	and meet the visitors. Not only that, it happened apparently on or very close to an incident
	where they were trying very hard to get me to come with them, and I wouldn't do it.
	So, I have to say, I think it is a possibility.
	Yes, and don't you think that if you had decided that you would be willing to go, you'd be gone?
	I decided, well, I'll tell you exactly what happened.
	I I had made a plan with them.
	And it wasn't like sitting across the table and talking to someone.
	It happened in your head and it felt like your imagination.
	But at the same time, then it would become real.
	And I had gotten to the point where I was used to that.
	I was handling that pretty well.
	And the plan was that they would call me.
	And I even built a bench in a certain place in the woods where I would go sit and one of them would come sit beside me and we would talk.
	That was the idea.
	And the call came just at dawn one February morning in the cold, in the form of a sound like a trumpet echoing across the woods and waking me up in the cabin.
	I knew what it was immediately.
	I mean, nothing else was going to make that noise like that.
	And I'd never heard it before, but it was just so otherworldly.
	It was obviously something to do with them.
	So I threw on my slippers.
	I had a pair of good, thick slippers and a big robe, and I went out into the woods.
	And to do that, you had to go over a deck and then cross a yard and then up a little rise.
	And then beyond the rise was a woods, and then beyond that, the clearing, where the first experience had taken place, I was pretty sure.
	So, I go up on the Little Rise, and I can see, through the naked winter woods, an object, a big dark object in that clearing.
	And I can see a couple of figures standing near it.
	And I can hear it.
	It's making a clanking noise, and that clanking noise is very familiar, because when these things slow down, I mean, people think of flying saucer, or I must make a, you know, very otherworldly whirring noise.
	Believe me, it's all much more down-to-earth when you're close to it than you would think, in any case, it was there.
	And I thought, oh my, they are here, it's going to happen.
	And I started to walk down into the woods, and I stopped for a second, and I heard this voice.
	It was these blue guys again, the tough ones, going, come on, come on!
	I thought to myself, if I walk down there, and I never come back, what happens to my family?
	My son and my wife, lying there in the bed, and what she's going through, and she goes through every night when I go out, and she won't talk about, but she won't stop me, but I know she lives in a kind of hell because of this.
	Maybe you were supposed to be considering that, Woodley.
	Maybe that was it.
	Well, exactly.
	And I turned around, and I went back to the house.
	When I put my hand on the doorknob to walk into the house, there came, from above the woods, three cries.
	The sounds remain, to this day, the most emotional, most beautiful, most heart-rending sounds I have ever heard, and also the most perfectly executed sounds.
	They were so perfectly timed together, and it's hard to explain this.
	But they were like hearing something perfect, like a voice of perfection.
	And so much so that I love classical music.
	I couldn't listen to it for nearly a year afterwards.
	It sounded like mud compared to that little second of those sounds.
	So beautiful, so filled with regret, so filled with emotion.
	And then I find out a little while later, this kid just disappeared down the road.
	And what am I to think?
	And there's other, even darker stories, Art.
	Darker.
	Maybe he wanted it, and you didn't.
	Maybe he went to a good place, but God, who knows?
	Well, that's right.
	Here comes a question on behalf of many people.
	I keep getting these messages when I'm on the air, and this one represents many people.
	Please, ask Whitley, if he thinks there's any chance that these creatures could be demonic.
	Of course.
	Certainly.
	Well, I mean, on the one hand, you tell us the terrible things they've done to you, but then, on the other hand, you say actually good things about them at times.
	I think that's why we call them the grays, because it is a gray area.
	It has a dark side to it, and it has a light side to it.
	I went through the dark tunnel of this thing, through the dark labyrinth, and on the other side, I came to a level of it which was richly educational, informative, and transformative.
	You know, the wonderful man who wrote the introduction to solving the communion enigma, Jeff Kripal.
	Jeff is a religious scholar.
	of the first rank.
	And he said to me, he said, Whitley, what you need to understand about this is there is such a thing as the dangerous sacred.
	He is the chairman of religious studies at Rice University.
	And he said, you have to understand this, that it is not all Sweetness and light, just because there is an element of holiness about it.
	Holiness can be dark.
	Yeah, but at any given moment, if contact begins, there's no way to know.
	You're walking into the unknown.
	Listen, if contact became general all over the earth, that would mean that it was demonic, because we are not going to be able to take it.
	It's hard to take, terribly hard to take, even when you've had it in your life for years.
	The most recent time the visitor showed up in my life in this apartment was an incredibly, where I live now in California, incredibly beautiful, devastatingly difficult experience because they are just so alive and so powerful.
	They're physically small.
	But, you know, it's like an elephant trying to deal with an ant, in terms of the mental power of it.
	And it's just overwhelming.
	It's hard.
	The emotional towering, emotional complexity and intensity.
	The breathtaking scope of the mind.
	It's appalling.
	And, you know, I'm telling you right now, I can take it for a few minutes.
	I know people who can take it for longer.
	But when I see these things about supposed Air Force people interviewing the aliens and stuff, I think to myself, come on, what BS is this?
	These people have no idea what this is really about.
	They're smoking.
	All right, here we go again.
	We've got so many people waiting.
	You're on the air with Whitley Strieber.
	Hi.
	Hello.
	Art?
	Yes.
	Welcome back.
	Thank you.
	Whitley.
	Hello?
	Yes, we're here.
	Uh, Blue Doctors.
	What's that?
	Yes?
	Um, what were they?
	Why do you call them doctors?
	I'm curious.
	Um, the book, were they doctors, or?
	Well, uh, some people referred to them, they referred to themselves in some cases as doctors.
	And I thought of them as sort of soul doctors or something.
	Yeah.
	The little doctors.
	They used to call themselves that.
	So, maybe that's what they are.
	Well, you obviously mentioned that somewhere, Woodley.
	Yeah, somewhere along the line.
	I remember that it was Walken that played you in the movie.
	Christopher Walken did, yeah.
	He played somebody in the movie.
	It wasn't me, but in any case, that's another story entirely.
	By the way, did you get to consult on that?
	I wrote a script.
	They basically threw it over their shoulders and made a movie.
	There are a couple of scenes that I actually...
	Yeah, I wasn't... I thought the movie had some good points, but they messed up the special effects in my opinion.
	I don't think the effects were very good.
	Christopher Walken's over-the-top performance was meant to mock me, and I knew that.
	And I found that very annoying.
	You're on the air with Whitley Strieber.
	Good evening.
	Good evening.
	How are you?
	Fine.
	My question is, because I've heard lots of interviews, and how does he know he hasn't been programmed?
	Or being programmed by that implant, because one of the things that Whitley said was, don't go into the light, go into the dark.
	No, I think that was John Lear, actually.
	Yeah, but he said Whitley told him that.
	No, I didn't tell John Lear.
	I think that's right.
	Well, I did not tell him that.
	I didn't tell him anything like that.
	But it does sound like something I might have said, simply because I went into the dark, and I found it very interesting.
	Actually, after a while.
	Scary, but interesting.
	I remember John Lear saying that, and I think he was quoting you.
	He might have been, and I can well imagine myself saying it, but... I remember because it's bothered me ever since.
	Why?
	What do you mean, why?
	If I'm in a... We're not talking about going into hell or something.
	I was talking about going into the woods at night.
	Well... A little bit more at night is okay, don't you think?
	Well, I was putting another spin on it.
	Well, I know that, but there is no other spin.
	As far as I was concerned, that was how I was answering that question.
	I don't remember specifically talking to John Lear about it, but I did often and have often said that I would recommend going into the dark if you want to find out what the truth is, because the truth is in the dark.
	Okay, thank goodness.
	That has haunted me, literally.
	Ever since it was said to me.
	In fact, the way it was said to me was, Art, don't go to the light, go to the darkness.
	The light is a trick.
	Now, can you understand why it bothered me?
	I can well believe that that would be said, and it sounds like something that might occur to me to say, and that I may have said, because I think it might be true.
	Oh, and now it's bothering me again.
	You're on the air with Whitley Strieber.
	Hello.
	Mega Roswell Barton.
	Good evening, Whitley.
	Good evening.
	Yeah, I had a quick story here and a question.
	Every Wednesday after I drop my son off at school, I'll take a ride up in the mountains to this restaurant on my bike.
	It's about a half hour ride.
	And two Wednesdays ago, I drop him off at 8.
	It's about a 30 minute ride up to this restaurant.
	I get there and I sit down and order my, I always get breakfast there.
	Order my usual and the lady says, well, we're not serving breakfast anymore.
	I said, well, what do you mean?
	You guys stopped serving breakfast?
	And she said, no, we still serve it, but we stop it at 1030.
	And I said, well, it can't be like more than, you know, nine or 830.
	And I pull out my cell phone and my cell phone says it's a little after 1130.
	And I totally kind of like thinking, did I drop my son off late at school?
	And I was like, nah, because I remember all the cars there.
	It was eight o'clock.
	And went outside and was kind of scratching my head, getting ready to head back down to make sure I didn't drop my son off late, and I had this burning sensation on the back of my neck.
	And when I got back home, I got in the mirror and looked in it, and it looked like a little burn.
	Now, a few weeks later, it's kind of healed, but it feels like there's like a BB or something inside there.
	And somewhere, it appears that I've lost three hours.
	I ended up picking my son up at school and asking him.
	He's like, no, you dropped me half the time.
	I was there all day.
	And I wonder if you have anything about time loss and then having some kind of implant?
	Oh, sure.
	Yeah, missing time is very common.
	Bob Hopkins wrote a book called Missing Time about that very experience of missing time, and I had that experience, but it's a very unusual context.
	I was in France with my family, and we had rented an apartment.
	We were there for a few days and about a week, and We were.
	I got very sick all of a sudden in the middle of the night, one night.
	And, you know, they all woke up when they decided they would go out touring.
	I mean, you know, because I certainly didn't want to keep them from going out and seeing Paris.
	And they went out and no sooner had they left, 10 or 15 minutes later, there comes a knock at the door.
	And I'm way back in one of the bedrooms.
	I'm thinking, you know, why don't they just use the key instead of making me get up when I feel like this?
	I walk in, and I go to the door, and there's two men there.
	And they're nice-looking guys.
	I mean, you know, they're perfect, and they're French.
	And they very politely ask to come in, because they would like to talk to me about my experiences.
	And I think to myself, how could a couple of fans find me here?
	Because, you know, I'm not even in a hotel.
	And I said, well, could you identify yourselves?
	And one of the men said, yes, we're with the French government.
	We have some interest in this, and I know they did, because I talked to a very prominent Frenchman about 20 years before who had known a great deal about this.
	And so I let him in, and the man says, we are able to induce the experience that you call missing time, and we would like to interview you when you're in that state.
	And I said, well, okay.
	I'm game.
	I was, of course, I was absolutely fascinated.
	I said, but I want to hear the tape of the interview if I don't remember it.
	Right.
	And the man says, well, we can certainly let you do that, but you won't remember even that, but for a few minutes.
	And I said, well, and I want a copy of the tape.
	He said, no, that we can't give you.
	And I said, I thought about it for a second.
	I said, OK, we'll do it.
	And he says, would you like to listen to the tape now?
	And I said, well, we haven't made the tape.
	Half an hour had passed.
	And he said to me, it's done with sound.
	And I listened to the tape.
	And I remember now being extremely happy about what I heard.
	I do not remember what I said on the tape.
	Okay, quick question for you on behalf of... That's missing time.
	Right, missing time.
	On behalf of this last caller, he also said something the back of his neck.
	There was something... Yeah, that sounds like an implant and... Yeah, it does.
	You know, if it's bothering him and if he's still got it in there and it's irritating him, go to the doctor and say to the doctor, I've got something in my neck.
	Fix it.
	You know?
	Okay, so you recommend that he go to a doctor?
	Sure.
	All right.
	We're really burning time here, so stay right where you are and we'll be right back.
	This is Dark Matter 855 Real UFO.
	Want to take a ride?
	To initiate a dialogue sequence with Art Bell, please call 1-855-REAL-UFO.
	That's 1-855-732-5836.
	Want to take a ride?
	To initiate a dialogue sequence with Art Bell, please call 1-855-REAL-UFO.
	That's 1-855-732-5836.
	Whitley, welcome back.
	Sunlight Radio is wonderful.
	We have, I don't know if you've noticed, but by comparison, we have all this time to actually talk about what matters.
	Yeah, it's very cool.
	You sound much more relaxed, too.
	Well, I am.
	Yeah, relaxed, thoughtful.
	It's very good.
	It's really, and I must tell you, I've really been enjoying the show tremendously.
	It is.
	I have.
	I so enjoyed your first show with Dick, and I enjoyed your show with Steven Greer, and the other shows have all been very enjoyable.
	Well, as I said, you can just sort of relax and get into the content and almost get lost in it.
	You're on the air with Whitley Strieber.
	Hi.
	Eric, I just wanted to tell you Mega Roswells, and I wanted to tell Whitley that I've enjoyed his books.
	I've read almost all of them.
	And I find them to be riveting and so informative.
	And the work that he's done has helped everybody by letting them know what's going on.
	And I was unaware that things had kind of gone downhill, but I pray that they are getting better.
	Well, they are.
	I mean, yeah, there's always ups and downs in this life.
	And thank you.
	I remember the low point, as you well know, Whit.
	People think you've just had a sweet, easy ride.
	No way.
	No way.
	A lot of things we can't talk about here.
	Hi, you're on the air with Whitley Strieber.
	Hello?
	Yes, hello?
	Hello.
	Yes, how are you doing?
	Fine.
	Great.
	Hey, listen.
	I was listening to you the other day and you were telling me that you're from, well, you spent some time in Alaska.
	I did.
	Man, great.
	Because I saw this movie, The Fourth Kind, and that really kind of, it was a really disturbing movie, but it made me kind of believe a lot.
	Well, it's a work of fiction, The Fourth Kind.
	It's called a faux documentary.
	In other words, it's a false documentary.
	It didn't really happen.
	Oh, okay.
	That's what I wanted to know.
	But it could have happened.
	I mean, he was... Oh, Tunde, we spent some time with him talking about this whole experience, just in general, the director.
	And, you know, it's credible in the sense that it's something that certainly could have happened.
	Oh, okay.
	Yeah, because it didn't happen to... I'm sorry.
	You know, it's getting a little confusing these days.
	We're mixing what we call reality TV in with actual documentaries and pseudo documentaries and what's real and what's not real.
	It's getting a little hard to discern.
	I wasn't too in favor of it, of the way he went about it.
	But, you know, I guess when, what was it, Blair Witch Product and then Paranormal Activity came out, Everyone wants to make movies that feel like the real thing, but actually are fiction.
	And they wanted to, but now the fad has passed, so perhaps you won't see so much of that anymore.
	Maybe that's a good thing.
	Well, is there anything, and we've got very little time, but I want to ask if there's anything you wanted to get in tonight that you didn't, or anything you want to add, or websites you want to plug?
	Yeah, I want to plug my website on mooncountry.com.
	It's among the coolest websites in the world.
	It is filled with all kinds of marvelously well-done stories about all manner of edge subjects, and it's very credible.
	It was created by Ann Streber, and she and Carrie Beeson are now the two news people.
	I'm on it a lot.
	My radio program, Dreamland, is on it.
	Your radio program, originally.
	No, yours now.
	Yeah, and I thought it was a wonderful program, and I loved it.
	I loved what you guys did, and we still use the same theme song, same music that Ramona picked so many years ago.
	Now, this weekend we have Peter Lavenda, who is a fascinating man, an adventurer.
	He's just back from the Far East, bringing with him some of the most remarkable and unexpected stories about Adolf Hitler that you will ever hear.
	Yeah, I've heard about this man.
	I've heard about him, and I guess he's got a whale of a bunch of stories to tell.
	Well, he's written...
	He's incredibly brilliant and well-educated.
	He has deep knowledge of the occult and not as a participant.
	He's not a pro-occult person at all.
	He wrote a series of four books called Sinister Forces that are about the occult influence on America, the American government, and the Nazi A Nazi-U.S.
	government connection, which runs very, very deep, and which I was exposed to as a child, and you'll find that story in the Communion Enigma book, Solving the Communion Enigma.
	The last thing I would want to say is this.
	I am a writer.
	Read my books.
	Read Solving the Communion Enigma.
	Read The Alien Hunter.
	You cannot but be better for having done so, and they are Really good reads.
	All right.
	Well, Whitley, I want to thank you for being here tonight.
	Obviously, of course, we'll have you back again sometime.
	It's been a real pleasure, and you really, really opened up.
	So what can I say?
	Thank you.
	Thank you, my friend.
	Good night.
	Good night.
	There you have it.
	That's Whitley Spiegel.
	Quite a story, huh?
	Absolutely amazing.
	That'll do it for this night and Dark Matter.
	thank you all very much and see you tomorrow night and
	and and
	and on my mind that the new day
	I As the world we live in presents Are we heeding all the signs?
	Have we lost our intuition?
	Are we running out of time?
	Midnight in the desert And we're listening And we're listening And we're listening

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