Art Bell

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Oct. 1, 2013 - Art Bell

03:29:17

Dark Matter with Art Bell - Communion - Whitley Strieber - NASA - Richard C. Hoagland

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44:45

richard c hoagland

28:16

whitley strieber

01:38:52

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Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		Inside the sound, the smell of the touch, there's something inside that we need so much The sight of a touch or the scent of a sound Or the strength of an oak in the ground of flowers to be covered and then to burst up to the sun again Or to fly to the sun from
unidentified		the high desert and the Wikipedia Southwest exclusively on serious sex and radio This is Dark Matter with your host Arkbell now here's our greetings and welcome to extra terrestrial radio It's a pleasure to be here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I am Mark Bell.
		And last night we were considering, well, all of you were considering that you didn't like the name I gave for the ghost show on Halloween.
		You know, Dark Matter Halloween, I thought it was all right.
		Apparently it was far too pedestrian for most of you.
		So, we have a winner.
		I'm declaring a winner.
unidentified		The new name is going to be Spooky Matter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Pretty good, I think, Spooky Matter.
		Credit goes to Steel Bot on Belgab.
		Belgab is a site.
		B-E-L-L-G-A-B.
		Belgab.
		Actually, there are a bunch of very vicious critics, not only vaguely lovable, but it's pretty cool.
		And so, if you get a chance, you know, go to Google, put in Belgab, and go take a look.
		It's a, you know, a site where people, I don't know what they do there.
		Anyway, they do it.
		So, you might check it out.
		Now, how do, I'm getting a lot of emails from all over the world.
		Britain, and on and on and on.
		Far East, all over the world, actually.
		Countries all.
		How do I subscribe?
		mostly you can't but here's the deal uh look sirius is originally when it was conceived it was meant to be a u.n deal and then there was a canadian company i guess it formed and carried it in canada and so forth and so on so even though the signal goes all over the place well it doesn't go to europe and it doesn't go to asia so you you really can't subscribe except
		for this little nugget of information if you and you can pass this on to your friends overseas many of them will hear it because many are listening anyway uh if you have a u.s address and i'm not saying to do this because probably it's not right but if you have a u.s address and you have a credit card in the u.s well then uh you can subscribe i mean uh probably shouldn't be saying that but
		it's the truth all you need is a u.s address and a u.s credit card and they don't know where the heck you are so go ahead anyway serious is looking into uh overseas subscribing for these kinds of shows because there's really no reason you shouldn't be able to um don't forget ghost stories when you have them uh if you have a really good one briefly tell it just
		encapsulate it and then include your phone number send it to artbell at artbell.com that's my email address artbell at artbell.com and maybe we'll call you during spooky matter fireballs fireballs fireballs sightings are becoming alarmingly common these days from the anomalous this one gave a spectacular light show as it streaked over indiana saturday night even more alarming
		the report of two dead after a house fire in ohio suspected to be the result of a meteorite that's like one of my biggest fears that i'll look up and i won't see it streaking across anything i'll see it as a dot growing larger and larger coming right at me what a way to go actually not the worst way to go when you think about it the deepest earthquake ever recorded 8.3 i
		at deepest, not biggest.
		About 600 kilometers down.
		It's very mysterious how these earthquakes happen.
		This one in the Sea of Oktos in Russia.
		610 kilometers down.
		610 kilometers of overlying rock.
		Now, the scientists are puzzled.
unidentified		Why?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, because down that far there's supposed to be So much pressure that nothing could move around.
		And yet it is.
		Scientists are very confused.
		It was quite a moment, actually.
		Deep earthquakes occur in the transition zone between the upper mantle and lower mantle, from 400 to 700 kilometers below the surface.
unidentified		But it just shouldn't be happening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so everybody's shaking their head about it, and I wonder if maybe we don't know as much about the inner earth as we thought we did.
		You know, what's really down there anyway?
		Government's closed, but the markets are up.
		Now, I was wondering about that.
		The free market, in other words, likes closed government.
		The day before, it went down, but the government closed and the market went up.
unidentified		Now, hmm, what's that all about?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe the free market's saying, yay.
		Yeah, get out of the way.
		International inspectors running around in Damascus and elsewhere trying to find all the chemical weapons, supposed to be about 1,000 tons of them.
		And I imagine these other government guys running around with them too.
		So it'll be a chase.
		The digital domain is creeping off our desktops and onto our bodies.
		From music players that match your tunes to your heart's beat to mood sweaters, mood sweaters, is that cool?
		That change color depending on your emotional state.
		Blue for calm, red for angry.
		There are vacuum shoes that clean the floor while you walk, and fitness bracelets, anklets and necklaces to track your calorie burning.
		Oh my God.
		Everyone agrees the race is just beginning, so get ready out there, everybody.
		I think we're going to see some very big leaps in technological fashion, I guess.
		I wonder what color it'd be for Horny.
		Wouldn't that make walking down the street an interesting experience?
		And, you know, all day long, all they're doing on TV is doing the government shutdown thing, interviewing politician after politician, and I'm so sick of it.
		I think if I was a reporter, I'd travel with my microphone and a guy named Guido.
		And Guido would stand next to me, and I'd ask the politician a question, whether it be from the left or the right.
		And when he gave me his usual non-answer, my God, they're good at that.
		Never even actually addressing what you ask.
		But they can talk.
		In fact, that applies to some coast guests, too.
		Anyway, I'd have Guido with me, and I'd, you know, after my non-answer, I'd say, look, Congressman, you see Guido here?
		I'm going to ask you the question again.
		If Guido doesn't like the expression on my face after I get the answer, if I'm not smiling, Guido's going to rearrange you.
		Then I bet you you'd get an answer.
		Yes, sir, sir.
		We've got a stereo check we've got to do here in a minute, too.
		So get ready.
		We're going to do a step.
		I'm tired of getting emails about, it's not coming out of my left channel.
		It's not coming out of my right channel.
		So we're going to do a check.
		But first, I'm going to tell you about the Centa 40 wooden headphones.
		These are hard to advertise.
		I mean, they really are.
		These are the most incredible, fantastic headphones you've ever wrapped around your head.
		But how do you advertise wooden headphones?
		It sounds vaguely Dutch or something, right?
		So my job is to advertise wooden headphones.
		Actually, they're gorgeous.
		They really are gorgeous.
		If you want to see them, go to ccrane.com.
		They've got wood housings.
		And it is my position that these wooden housings, even though they're gorgeous, produce a bass response that you're not ever going to get any other way.
		I'm serious.
		It's just, it's superb sound.
		And it's cheap, too.
		$59.95.
		Somebody noted the other day almost everything I sell is $59.95.
		These are remarkable headphones.
		Trust me on this and order them.
		You'll never be sorry.
		I know a lot of people listen in bed or whatever.
		They've got a folding design so they store very easily.
		They come with a flexible headband, ultra soft ear cushions.
		It'll just make love to your ears.
		Comfortable, lightweight, adjustable, full range of response, best you've heard.
		So do it.
		Call them right now.
		Why wait?
		The number is 1-800-522-8863.
		Again, what do you want to ask for?
		You want to ask for the Centa 40 wooden headphones.
	They look wonderful and they work even better.
	1-800-522-8863, the Crane Company.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now we're going to do a stereo test.
		I've been getting all these emails.
		Yeah, I don't get the left channel.
		I don't get the right channel.
		I don't get it combined.
		So here we go.
		Are you ready?
		Are you listening really carefully?
		Because the song I'm going to play is going to start in the right channel and then it's going to switch to the left channel.
		You ready?
		This is right channel.
		Right channel.
		Left channel.
		left channel.
unidentified		Now you're rocking in both channels.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is Dark Matter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		When the sun comes up on a sleepy little town down around San Antonio and the folks are rising for another day round to found their home.
		The people of the town are strange and the world are well-being.
		Well, you're rocking out of town the road Oh, oh, oh, oh.
		Where's the channel?
		All the times have come.
		Here, but now, they're found.
		Seasons don't feel the reaper.
		No due to wind, the sun, the rain, we can be right there.
		Come on, baby.
		Baby, take my hand.
		Don't feel the reaper.
		Baby, I'm the man.
		Thank you.
		It's XM, baby, and we're very serious.
		To call Art Bell, please manipulate your communication device and call 1-855-REO UFO.
		That's 1-855-732-5836.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a number, alright.
		I'm already getting all kinds of interesting information about Comet ISON from all kinds of people.
		Jim McCanney is sending me an awful lot on ISIN.
		McCanney is suggesting that, well, not all the information is being supplied by NASA about what ISON is doing.
		He thinks it's connected electrically to Mars.
		And of course, Richard C. Hoagland, I'm sure, thinks it's connected to Mars hyperdimensionally or something.
		We're going to do the first hour tonight with Richard C. Hoagland, assuming that we've made the right connections.
		Now, we've got possibly a miscommunication in that area.
		Do we have Richard C. Hoagland on the line?
		He's calling in, I'm told, right now.
		Okay, so what is it that Jim McCanny thinks?
		He thinks that information about ISON and the electrical activity as it attaches itself in some way to Mars is being hidden from us.
		Might make an interesting guess.
		It developed a sunward spike, according to him.
		And I'm told that now we have Richard C. online.
		A little miscommunication there.
		Richard, hello.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Good evening, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good evening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're going to tell us tonight about a number of things, but ISON for sure, right?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		You bet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let her rip, Richard.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, we're not going to see ISON from Mars, maybe, maybe.
		The government shutdown has drastically affected the space agency.
		In fact, given that there are no appropriations for any of the government funding that is so-called discretionary, you know, the government is divided into kind of two parts, the mandatory and then the discretionary.
		And the discretionary is a really small part of the whole federal budget.
		But the discretionary funding includes NASA.
		NASA has between 18 and 19,000 employees.
		They have sent almost everybody except 600 people, who are mostly security guards and computer types, home during this shutdown.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My producer told his daughter they cut off the air for the space station.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		She really got angry.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		You mean the live feed?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, the air.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no, that's not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oxygen, Richard.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oxygen.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		That's not air, airtime.
		That's nonsense.
		No, no, no.
		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know it's nonsense.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, go ahead.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, yeah, whoever told her that, they should be, you know, taken out to the woodshead.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		You didn't tell her that, did you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		He told his daughter that, I. Oh, that's nuts.
		Anyway, no.
		Mission control is up and running.
		Obviously, we have astronauts in orbit going around every, you know, 90 minutes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And they're still getting air.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And they're still getting air, yes.
		But all the computer people, all the science people, all the support systems, all the guys in the back room, all that, they've all gone home.
		So if there's a problem, NASA will have to call all these people back to work.
		And if they really have to go and get them, we can't get them anyway, because we have no spacelift capability.
		It's going to be the Russians who are not affected by the current U.S. government shutdown.
		So yeah, we will be able to get them home.
		But where the rubber meets the road for tonight's discussion, there was supposed to be, and we'll get into this in a few minutes with some images, some really wonderful imaging attempts from the surface of Mars by the Curiosity spacecraft to take images of Comet Ison as it flies by a little over 6.5 million miles above the Martian North Pole.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, listen, everybody.
		You need to go to artbell.com right away.
		We're about to discuss photographs.
		So when you get to artbell.com, you want to go to the Hoagland10-1 Images.
		You want to click on all images and get the first one of ISON, which is very pretty, on your screen, and then you'll be ready to progress with this.
		But if you don't go to the website, you're going to be lost.
		Artbell.com, Richard Hoagland10.1 Images, right?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, so yeah, let's go to image number one.
		Because among other things that has Been shut down.
		I mean, literally, NASA is closed.
		And what was interesting is out of all the federal government and all the various agencies that literally have no money, so all these people have been furloughed, like a million government folks furloughed.
		The president singled out yesterday NASA to cite as one of the casualties of this Tea Party-imposed government shutdown.
		And I thought singling out NASA was very interesting.
		Well, why is it interesting?
		Well, look what they're planning to do.
		If you go to image number one, this is a schematic plan published a little while ago by Space.com.
		For the FYI 2014 budget, NASA is planning to begin to go out and find an asteroid in the right orbit, exactly the right orbit, nudge it into an orbit that will intersect the moon with a solar electric propulsion system.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Get it in orbit around the moon.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And put it in orbit around the moon so we then can send up astronauts on the new space launch system and the Orion crew module to sample it and begin to learn how to mine asteroids in Earth orbit.
		And of course, that asteroid will be available to all the private ventures that are currently going on.
		The Google folks and Elon Musk and Richard Branson and all those private guys that are really doing interesting things on the space frontier.
		Because the big high-ticket item for making space pay, for actually bringing the riches of the solar system, as my old friend Kraft Erica used to say, the magnificent heritage down to Earth, well, you'll be able to mine asteroids for precious metals, for water in space.
		I mean, literally water in space for astronauts to drink and to split apart for oxygen and all that.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Equals fuel also.
unidentified		Yeah, I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Water is very important, but in terms of actually mining from an asteroid, I'm kind of curious.
		Unless you've got a giant diamond, for example, or something much more, I don't know, worthy than what would it be?
		What would be worth mining it?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, it all depends on where.
		Remember, every single pound to support the ISIS space station is taken up from the Earth.
		The cost, which is why we're looking at Musk and Branson and others for private space activities, is in the order of $10,000 per pound.
		It's more expensive to ship a pound of water to the space station than it is to take diamonds.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Water is a matter of time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So what would be on an asteroid that would be worth enough to do it?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		If it's the right asteroid, if it's a carbonaceous chondride, water is about 20% by weight of a whole class of asteroids.
		And we don't know.
		I mean, they're going to do spectral surveys and try to pick the right one.
		The problem with this little plan is you've got to get one that's around 500 tons.
		That's not a small boat.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Mr. I thought there was water on the moon at the poles, right?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Didn't they tell you?
unidentified		There is water.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		But there's a big gravity field on the moon.
		The gravity field of the moon is one-sixth that of Earth.
		It costs money, a lot of money with rockets, that primitive technology, to lift a pound of water from the moon.
		So what you'd ideally like to have is water in a zero-grab environment in space to ship from point to point in space to build a space industrial infrastructure that basically is operating in a zero-G environment.
		And that's why this asteroid project is so critical to not just the future of NASA, but to the future of all of us.
		We need to become a space civilization at Warp 9.
		We are running out of stuff on Earth.
		We're despoiling the planet.
		We're killing our future.
		And we're running out of resources.
		Well, there's infinite resources in space if we can find them and tap them and utilize them.
		And that's what this project is planning to do.
		But there was a three-day conference in Houston that began Monday, was supposed to end tomorrow.
		It had to be canceled in mid-conference.
		Why?
		Because all the NASA people who have airplane tickets and using their NASA credit cards have to go home because they can't pay anybody anymore.
		The government has shut down NASA.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I get it.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		This is a short-term.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, I really didn't think of water as a very valuable commodity.
		You know, you're right.
		In space, of course, it would be priceless.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		See, everything has value.
		Value is all relative.
		You can't eat diamonds.
		You can't drink diamonds.
unidentified		No.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Water, we are 90 plus percent water.
		Water in space is more valuable than any desert on this planet, and asteroid mining will make it available to use solar energy to simply heat the asteroid up, extract the 20% water, pick the right one.
		You've got almost free water in a zero-grab environment to do amazing things because it ultimately can even be used to make rocket fuel for clunky old rocket engines.
unidentified		You just rarely hear a girl say water is a girl's best friend.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		They will in orbit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		So, moving on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		I thought we'd do a reprise.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		I want to see your unspoiled reaction to image number two.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Image number two.
		Um.
		Let me get it closer.
		Um.
		I don't know, Richard.
		It looks like a mangled engagement ring.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But that's going to get from me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		If you look on the shadowed, all right, look on the shadowed side.
		Okay.
		It's like a trash can with the lid still on it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, this is Roche stuff, but a trash can.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		It's regular.
		It's regular geometry.
		It's got all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's no number nine, brother.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's interesting, I grant you, but it's no number nine.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Love number nine.
		You just like long engagements.
		That's why you mentioned the ring.
unidentified		Yeah.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so go to number three.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, going to image.
		Well, wait a minute.
		I've got to go back now.
unidentified		And then down to image number three.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		I guess I'm going to get increasingly thrilled as we move along.
		Image number three.
		Here we go.
		All right.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		This is a stereo view of your favorite.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, now you're talking, baby.
		Here's number nine.
		Here's number nine.
		You know what a bunch of people told me?
		They thought number nine was so good, Richard, that they wanted the NASA number so they could go pull it up themselves.
		Do you have the NASA number for number nine?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, Keith didn't put them up on this page tonight, but it's on the previous page from my previous show.
		We have three images of number nine, two taken within minutes of each other, and then the one that I've got listed tonight taken 13 days before they moved the rover a little closer so we got a stereo view.
		I will have Keith, you know, tonight put up the images or the image links on this page so they click right on the image link underneath.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He's my producer.
		He was astounded by this, and so astounded that he refused, I think, to buy into it until he got the original NASA photograph and did his own imaging, you know, of that photograph.
		So there you go.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		So now number nine has two suitors.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it's got a lot of suitors.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, that's a pipe.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, we got stereo.
		If you actually, I didn't size it correctly so you can actually see stereo because that's a very complicated process and no one will believe it anyway.
		So do it yourself.
		But the links are on the first page of number nine from two weeks ago, week and a half ago.
		And I'll make sure Keith puts the links on this page.
		But yeah, we've got three separate images by the Curiosity M100 camera of this thing sitting out there in the desert a few, you know, maybe 20, 30 feet away that's obviously got all kinds of complex geometry and a pipe sticking out towards the camera.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there's no doubt about it.
		I'm sold on this one.
		The only question I think about it is not whether it's natural or not.
		It is not natural.
		The question is, could it have been from some previous Russian or American space mission?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		That is a totally legit question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's the only one that I see that stands in the way of, oh my God, that they were there.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And the answer is you go to look at all the mission histories which are available all over the web, just Google.
		There is no previous mission by Russians, Japanese, Chinese, Americans, whatever, that has ever come anywhere close to Gale Crater.
		Now, let me raise another speculation over what you like to call in the business a scenario.
		Suppose there is a secret space program, Mark.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry, a secret what?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Space program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Run by folks that have been able to do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it would have been very expensive, and that might have something to do with why the government shut down and had money on it.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, the only mundane explanation that one can invoke for this object is that a secret space program went to Gale a decade ago, two decades, whatever, and left this, dropped it as part of the hardware.
		That raises so many bizarre questions that it's almost as good a possibility as that the Martians left it.
		However, there is a way to tell, even by just a photograph.
		When you look close up, you told me last time I should have had a closer picture of it, so I put up the stereo and close-up.
unidentified		Right.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Look at the surface.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Does that look like a pristine new surface to you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Looks really corroded and beat up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that's also very, very hard to account for.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you want to call it a rock.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, when you have a piece of metal in the desert and it gets sandblasted by sandstorms, wind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It might look like that.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		It gets shiny.
		Oh, absolutely.
		just go to any desert and look at old beer cans or whatever.
		They don't have any labels anymore, Coke cans, but they're shiny as heck because the sand, the sandblast.
		Even if it was, let's say, let's assume this was part of a secret program.
		Remember Bill, what's his name?
		Oh, who was the Navy Intel guy that got gunned down in Arizona?
		Bill Cooper, William Cooper.
		Remember how he claimed there was a secret space program going back to the 60s that went to Mars?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's assume that Bill is right.
		And that this is an artifact left over from a secret space program mission in the 1960s.
		That's only 50 years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm pretty sure that would have been an American secret program.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And it would be nice and shiny because there's no oxygen, there's no corrosion, no rusting in a brief period of time on Mars of 50 years.
		So if this thing is really, really old, which the data says it is, it's got to be much older than anything humans have done in the last hundred years or the last thousand years or maybe the last 10,000 or 12,000 years.
		It could be, here's another possibility, an artifact from a human mission from Earth during the last time there was an ancient high-tech civilization on this planet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, my guess last night would be all over here for that.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		You mean Mike Kaiser?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Mike and I are old, old friends.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		I haven't heard the show yet because I was kind of watching the government self-destruction.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, he doesn't believe in that kind of stuff.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		That there was an ancient civilization anywhere on Earth?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		Well, I mean, you're not a technological one.
		And, you know, for your pipe in whatever you call that, you know, there would have had to have been a real space program technological civilization.
		No, Heiser doesn't believe that at all.
		Not at all.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		So who made Mike Heiser the final authority?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, nobody.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		You know, you have to drive it with data.
		Look at what Graham has got.
		Look at what Brian Forster has got.
		Look at what all these independent rogue archaeologists, you know, my old friend John West.
		Everyone who's looked at this seriously, looked at the ancient structures, the sacred sites, the evidence, the texts, and all that, they say we are not the first.
		And I've got measurements of ancient temples with this physics that when we get to do that show someday are going to knock your socks off because they're doing things that nobody should have known how to do hundreds or thousands of years ago.
		So all I'm saying is at the moment, since we don't have ground truth, we can't, you know, what's really weird, Art, is that they saw this stuff in the distance from the Curiosity imagery, and for a mission named Curiosity, they drove right by.
		They never even, they could have gone over, and, you know, they can the microscopic imager, they could have done the laser ping-ping to get it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do I, of course, they're not working right now, but I mean, how do I get somebody from NASA on here, Richard, and say, okay, we're all looking at number nine here, looking at the pipe sticking out of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Please tell me what I'm looking at.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Let me think of the right person.
		What you want is an honest skeptic, which is rarer these days than a Tea Party member who likes Obamacare.
		But let's find an honest skeptic, a scientist, who is willing to look at data.
		Like you tried to get Seth Szostak the other night to go and look at number nine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, I wonder if he even did after the show.
		I kind of doubt it.
		He wouldn't want to seize anything that would ruin his personal paradigm.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Why?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, because it would ruin his personal paradigm.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		He's got a job listening and looking for aliens.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I know, but if they're already here, or in this case, on Mars, then his job is in jeopardy, Richard.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		End of conversation.
unidentified		Well, no, wait, wait, wait, wait.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Hang on, hang on.
		What he said from what I heard him say was, if you could prove to me, meaning data, that someone was here, I would change jobs, meaning listening with a radio, you know, clunky, archaic, primitive radio, and I would look at a way to interact with them in modern 21st century modalities.
		He said that right on your show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
		I'm sure he said that.
		And the comments were mine, sort of a comical observation.
		I don't think he likes things like they're here now.
		If they're here now, then he's got a problem.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And, you know, if they're here now, it makes him, it gives him infinite job security.
		Because how many people on planet Earth have a background to deal intelligently with ETs, aliens, artifacts, whatever?
		There's only a handful.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if they're here now, he's got to reorient all those satellite dishes.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, or maybe use my Accutron, because when we get to the Accutron show, I'm going to show you data we've gotten which looks incredibly like intelligent messages modulating the Accutron output.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I'm willing to look.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it's astonishing.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Believe me, it's better than number nine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, we need motion here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Next question.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Let's go to four.
unidentified		Okay.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		This is...
		This is a photograph that was taken in the southern hemisphere, I think in Australia, in the summer, in the spring of 2011 when Comet McNaught flew by.
		And the orbit was such that you really couldn't see it from the northern hemisphere, but you had one heck of a view from the southern.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		God, that is absolutely gorgeous.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Isn't that spectacular?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		This is what they've been saying we might see with ISON.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Except.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Now, can I stop you right there and ask you, what is your best guess right now, Richard?
		Is it going to be 15 times as bright as the moon, or is it going to be a giant disappointment or something in between?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		The honest answer is I haven't a clue.
		Comets are notoriously unpredictable.
		Like I remember back in the prehistory, you know, your prehistory, because you and I hadn't met for decades yet, 1974, when I was at the Hayden Planetarium in New York, I borrowed the Queen Elizabeth II and took a whole bunch of people and my director to South America and back for two weeks, tracing Comet Kahotek.
		And believe me, it was so amazing to stand on the fantail and pick up the phone and call the bridge and say, sir, would you please move her bow 20 degrees to port so that the plume doesn't break but self across.
		And they did it.
		Oh, talk about power.
		Talk about the feeling.
		And we had a great view.
		Now, Cahotec was a dud for everybody else because you had to be in a super dark sky with no lights, no scattering, no glare, no water vapor, no whatever.
		And from the middle of an ocean, it was really great to see from the deck of the QE2.
		But most people live in cities, so for them, it was a dud.
		It is, given the projections of the comet of the century, always beware of the hype, comet of the century.
		You know, note to self, do not follow hype on comet of century.
unidentified		Okay.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		I am really concerned that the overhype of comet ISON.
		However, comets are incredibly unpredictable.
		So it could surprise us.
		It's going to come within 700,000 plus or minus a few miles of the surface of our seething 10,000 degree Fahrenheit sun.
		It's going to get so close, it will boil furiously as it gets close inside the orbit of Venus in the next few weeks and reaches naked eye visibility sometime toward the end of October, beginning of November.
		It could surprise everybody and have a sudden spurt.
		A comet IKEA Seci in 1965 did that, where I was out chasing it with a light aircraft.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Attention, if that happens, we will be your serious XM channel for Comet ISO.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Now, you know what other famous broadcasters said that a few weeks ago, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I do.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Which was?
		Yeah, Brian Williams.
		Yeah, Brian.
		Which tells me, and remember, I have a conspiracy side to this investigation.
		So I'm looking for the subtle political backstory to when things are so hyped and you wonder why are they hyping just another little bergy bit sailing through the inner solar system.
		When Brian Williams and NBC a few nights ago said, we're going to be your NBC Comet ISON network, they have never done that.
		I've worked for a couple of networks, three networks actually, NBC, CBS, and CNN.
		I have never lived at a time when a network, television network, advertised it was going to be the place to come for news and views of a celestial event.
		Unless they're running on inside info, which raises all kinds of questions we'll get to in a couple of minutes.
		Let's go to number five.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		This is an exquisite ISON simulation.
		Company name is right on the page.
		And then you click on the link below the image, below the thumbnail, and that will take you to this really cool three-dimensional simulation where you can run the solar system forward and back.
		You can look at this thing from any angle.
		You can zoom in.
		You can rotate around.
		The comet, of course, is totally fake.
		It's a big, huge, spectacular comet, but that's on the schematic so people can see what the comet is supposed to be looking like at that moment.
		This is the single shot, the photo I grabbed for tonight.
		Tonight, ISON moves around 6.5 million miles above the northern hemisphere of Mars.
		We have assets at Mars.
		We have the Curiosity rover and the Opportunity rover on the surface.
		When I say we, I mean the United States.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can I ask two fast questions?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why is it turning green?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Ah, that's the image we get to in a couple of minutes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Figures.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Let me save that until we get, because it's two images down, okay?
		So if you like to still click on the link, everybody, have fun moving around looking at this geometry of ISON over the next several months.
		Let's go to number six.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Takes me a second.
		Numbers.
		This is all on artbell.com.
		If you're just joining the show, go to artbell.com.
		Richard C. Hoagland Images.
		He's got a bunch of them.
		Number six looks like.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		This is the view, simulated view, of what ISON should look like if Curiosity was able to send us images.
		but because of the government shutdown, which coincidentally happened the night the sun flies by Mars, we're not going to see anything for, we don't know how long.
		Now, I am praying that the JPL folks actually pre-programmed Curiosity to take it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He thinks they're hiding data on purpose, and he thinks they're doing it because there's an electrical connection forming to Mars that they don't want everybody to know about.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, it is possible.
		It's technically possible.
		I don't think that Jim is right for a whole bunch of reasons that we obviously don't have time to get into now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		But it'll be a useful discussion.
		Maybe sometime you can have him and me on together and we can have a wonderful food fight in an intellectual, high-level way.
		But for whatever reason, we're not going to see not only live images or tape, they don't tape them, they put them in digital memory, then they download them over the next day or two.
		We're not going to see any of this stuff because the data acquisition from all of NASA's spacecraft orbiting or on the surface of Mars, we've got two spacecraft in orbit.
		We have Mars Odyssey, which has a damn good camera, and we've got essentially a telescope, a miniature Hubble telescope orbiting Mars in the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter spacecraft called HiRISE, which has like a two-foot, I think it's a two-foot mirror.
		Maybe it's a foot and a half, whatever.
		It's almost as big as Hubble.
		Now, normally it looks down to get really super high magnification images of Mars that show things, you know, a few inches across.
		You turn that baby and look into space at ISON when it's only six and a half million miles away, you're going to get a spectacular view.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Richard.
		Hold it right there.
		Hold it.
		We've got to take a break.
		And so take a break.
		We shall.
		Richard C. Hoagland this hour, and then Whitley Striever, coming right up.
unidentified		Down around the corner, half a mile from here.
		You see them both ways run, and you want some good to be.
		That love, where would you be now?
		From the area of 51.
		This is Dark Matter with ourselves.
		To join the show, please call 1855 wheel UFOs.
		That's 1-855-732-5836.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Richard C. Huffland is here.
		Coming up the top of the hour is Whitley Streeber.
		So let's get directly back to Richard and say, Richard, I'm already on the next photograph.
		The series of photographs on artbell.com.
		It's the green.
unidentified		The green.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so tell me why this comet is turning green.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Okay, magic number seven, image number seven.
		This is an Earth photograph taken by an exquisite amateur British astronomer named Damian Peach, who has one heck of a website.
		Go Google him and go look at all his stunning images.
		He's doing professional Hubble-level stuff with an amateur's telescope from Earth.
		This was a photograph he took a few days ago, and yell, the comet is wonderfully emerald green.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		It has to do with chemistry.
		Whatever comets are made of, when they get close to the sun, the solar ultraviolet light, both the wavelength and the intensity, the brightness, increases.
		The brightness increases as it gets closer and closer.
		There's a magic point reached where the chemicals begin to combine.
		First of all, they have to melt.
		They have to sublime in a vacuum.
		Then they combine in weird ways, and then they stream off into the background.
		And the green comes from a gas called cyanogen, which is a mixture of carbon and hydrogen.
		And it's related to cyanide.
		It's deadly.
		When we passed through the tale of Halley's Comet back in 1910, there were folks selling comet pills.
		There were other folks trying...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It'll be over on another radio channel.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Yep, cyanogen.
		And they were even selling submarine rides and telling people to take several days' worth of provisions so you could stay alive underwater while the rest of the population was gas to death.
		Needless to say, the amount of cyanogen is a wisp because the pressures and densities are a trillionth of the Earth's atmosphere.
		So it's an interesting phenomenon.
		The cyanogen may in fact be a clue as to the real nature of some comets because not all comets turn green when they approach the sun.
		So let's move on to number eight.
		This is the one that really blew everybody's mind on the web a few weeks ago.
		This is a Hubble view from the Hubble Archive.
		And below the image, below the thumbnail, there is a link directly to the Hubble archive.
		So you can see this is officially in the Hubble archives of the Hubble Space Telescope.
		This is a close-up with Hubble of the nucleus of Comet Ison showing a stunning, ready for it?
		Tetrahedral 120 degree geometry of apparently three pieces in the nucleus of a comet.
		Except, that's not what you're seeing.
		What you're seeing is geometry created deliberately by NASA at the Hubble Institute for God knows what reason, Art.
		I could speculate, but we don't have time because Whitley's coming up at Warp 9, so I got to move through these fast.
		But the geometry was absolutely unequivocally created by the timing of when the Hubble camera was ordered to take the 440-second each three images that for some reason NASA composited all into one black and white image, which is never done.
		This is not how you do science on comets.
		So somebody at NASA wanted us to see this geometry.
		The geometry has a hidden meaning to someone somewhere.
		That's another show.
		But it's real, and that's what tells me that May and Brian Williams may have gotten a heads up that something is going to be really interesting about ISON, so keep watching.
		Let's move on to number nine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, number nine.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Number nine is a close-up of Comet Hartley 2 taken by a NASA spacecraft that was repurposed from colliding with a comet Temple a few years ago.
		The comet spacecraft was renamed Epoxy, having nothing to do with the glue.
		No, no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What a name, though.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		It's not a reference to the famous incident of Art gluing his lips together.
		Although they may actually, deep inside, be chuckling with these secret codes.
		Who knows?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know what I've got, Richard?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got an email from somebody telling me they saw a Hoagland dartboard at NASA.
unidentified		Really?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Did they take a picture?
unidentified		No.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Oh, darn.
		They should send me a picture.
		Anyway, so number nine is a close-up taken by the epoxy spacecraft of the nucleus of Hartley 2 in several different spectral filters showing basically elements coming off the comet.
		The blue one is the water vapor distribution.
		The red one is the dust.
		That's infrared, by the way.
		That's why it's glowing so brightly.
		The green is CO2.
		The kind of whitish one is ice, just scattering of sunlight from ice coming off, because comets are supposed to be mostly water, which sublimes in a vacuum.
		That's their natural model.
		But the interesting question about this betrayal by NASA is, why are the elements segregated to various regions on this little tiny object?
		And we're talking something that's about a mile across, kind of an elongated, you know, mile-long football.
		And there's no way that a comet forming through accretion in a vacuum back in the solar system formation days, billions of years ago, could segregate elements to various layers.
		In other words, you wouldn't have the oxygen forming first, then you wouldn't have the CO2 around it, and et cetera, like an onion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have a quick question, Richard, and this is important, I think.
		I've seen a picture of ISON taken recently that shows something out in front of it, just barely in front of it.
		What is that?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Okay, that was seen in 1957 in a comet called Markov.
		Google Comet Markov 1957 and you'll see what's called a sun spike.
		It's an illusion.
		It's a thin plane of dust seen at a key angle that appears to be ahead of the comet, but it's actually a visual projection effect.
		Okay, illusion.
		It's that seen sideways projected ahead of the comet visually from our geometric angle.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So we've got to wrap up.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Number 10.
		Go to number 10.
		This is a color close-up of Hartley by the epoxy spacecraft leaked to me by sources inside NASA.
		What do you see?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know, Richard.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It looks honeycombed to me is the word I would use.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		That's a perfect term.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		A comet should not be regularly honeycombed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		My model is some comets, not all of them, maybe not even the majority, but some of them could be ancient derelict spacecraft from the ancient epoch of the solar system when my Type 2 civilization lived and enjoyed occupation of the planets, the places between the planets, built artificial worlds.
		Remember, this thing is about a mile long.
		And what we're seeing in Hartley is the outgassing in those various elemental colors because of the outgassing into a vacuum through holes in the former hull of the gases that would be used to keep a biosphere and people and trees and all kinds of other stuff alive in a little artificial world measuring about a mile across.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a giant leap, Richard.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		That's why we need three more hours.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we don't have them.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		But if you got one artificial ancient object on Mars, everything you assume about the history of the solar system is wrong.
		Everything.
		And must be questioned.
		And so this proposition has to be in the mix along with all the other implications of an ancient artifact on a place where NASA says nothing like that possibly can exist.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, you've done it, my friend.
		Thank you very much.
		I appreciate the hour.
		It was a packed hour, but it was a good hour.
		Thank you, Richard.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Say hi to Whitley.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I will indeed.
		All right.
		Now, watch this transition.
		Whitley Streeber is the author of Communion.
		It's all about communion.
		I'm sure you've read it.
		So many of you had to have read it.
		It's about his close encounter of the third kind.
		And among the best-selling books in history.
		He's co-author with me of Superstorm that then became the movie The Day After Tomorrow.
		He is the author of more than 20 other books, including the spiritual classic, The Key, and the largest-selling book on the Roswell incident, Majestic.
		Most recently, he has published Alien Hunter in the first of a series of novels about alien and human police working together to catch alien criminals on Earth.
		His current nonfiction is Solving the Communion Enigma, which describes new breakthroughs that could solve the close encounter mystery once and for all.
		His website is unknowncountry.com, providing daily news of the edge.
		It is also the home of the radio program called Dreamland, founded by Art and Ramona Bell and continued by Whitley to this very day.
		So here, ladies and gentlemen, is Whitley Streeber.
		Hey, buddy.
		Welcome to Satellite Radio.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
		It's so, such an extraordinary pleasure to be talking to you again.
		I think I was among your first guests, and here I am again among your first guests in the new program, and I wish you all the best with it, for sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
		It's really cool.
		We have so much freedom, so much time.
		When you actually count up the radio show time versus everything else, we were way ahead here.
		Anyway, it's good to have you, and it's hard always to know where to start.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's a lot of places to start, and maybe the thing to do is to start with a quick retelling.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think we need to, and the reason is SiriusXM has about 27 million subscribers.
		And a lot of them are new here, never heard you before, Whitley.
		So there you go.
		Let's retell it.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, what they're going to hear now is something that's very different from what they have been led to believe is true.
		But we have been the victims of skillful social engineering.
		And the automatic knee-jerk reaction to reject what I'm about to tell you about is wrong.
		It is a mistake.
		I am telling the truth.
		And all through the show, all night, you will hear somebody telling the truth.
		No matter how strange it seems, just remember, you've been tricked.
		This is the truth.
		What you believed before you heard this, if you did not know that this was really happening, was a skillfully designed lie Created to mislead you.
		Now, here's what happened to me.
		And when it happened, I was just exactly where most people are to this day.
		I would have scoffed at anybody who talked about close encounters of the third kind as anything except fiction.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, Whitley, you know what?
		I don't know what you were doing back then.
		When all this began to happen to you, what were you doing?
		What worked?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		I had just finished publishing a book called War Day with my buddy Jim Konetka.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		We'd written it together.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I loved War Day.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Oh, thank you.
		And it was the big bestseller.
		It was a very politically intense book during the height of the Cold War, essentially warning about the danger of limited nuclear war at a time when elements of the U.S. government were actually beating the drum for a limited nuclear war because they thought that we would survive and the Russians would be destroyed.
		And the point of the book was to remind people that limited nuclear war or any kind of nuclear war is a really serious business.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it did that.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		It did that, and it made a lot of people extremely angry.
		I received, Ted Kennedy had backed the book on the floor of the Senate, had read parts of it, and had been a real partisan of the book.
		And about six months before the communion experience, I received a telephone call from one of his aides warning me that someone in the government, I think he said it was Brent Scalcroft, I don't remember, it could have been any number of people, was gunning for me.
		Meaning, I thought, one of those political tax audits, which I would receive shortly thereafter, but in any case, where basically the IRS is told by the politicians, screw around with this individual for a while.
		And, you know, that's all the presidents say, oh, we would never do that.
		They all do it.
		I'm not a political partisan here at all.
		I'm not saying the Democrats don't do it.
		They do it.
		I'm not saying the Republicans don't do it.
		They do it.
		And in any case, so that's what I was doing.
		I was heavily involved in that kind of thing.
		I hadn't thought about UFOs since I was a kid.
		Well, I had eaten and breathed, lived and breathed that stuff for a while during the mid-50s.
		One of the boys up the street's father was involved in what was then a famous UFO incident in Texas.
		He saw a UFO in a field.
		His car stopped, and the whole nine yards happened to him.
		And we were just terribly excited about all of this, of course.
		And this UFO was seen all over South Texas on that night, and it was a famous case.
		And so I had known about it.
		But by the time I was in high school, girls and school and getting a car and getting work and learning to drive and all that stuff had completely replaced the fantasies of boyhood.
		Let me put it that way.
		And by the time I was in early middle aged, raising my own child, working as a writer, very involved in politics and writing and all kinds of stuff at the time, this was not in my universe at all whatsoever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		So it began when and how?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, in the middle of the night of December the 26, 1985, let me go back to that time.
		It was a lovely night in upstate New York, about 90 miles north of New York City, not too far from Woodstock.
		Beautiful, wooded, hilly area.
		Beautiful evening.
		The sun set early, of course, dead of winter.
		The snow was falling softly.
		It was just, we took a little walk out on the road.
		The breeze was, cold winter breeze was whistling in the pines.
		It was just gorgeous.
unidentified		Then we went to bed.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		At some point during the night, I became aware of noises.
		It was in fact quite noisy.
		And I was confused because, you know, here I am in a cabin in the woods in the middle of nowhere.
		There's 15 miles of just straight woods outside my side.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Noisy in what way?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Oh, like people talking and clangs and grunting and thuds and all kinds of things.
		It was just noisy.
		And so I opened my eyes and I did not know where I was.
		I did not understand this.
		I saw what I first thought was some kind of a tent.
		Then a moment later I had a memory of sitting in the woods in the snow with these strange people and going up in an elevator where there was no elevator.
		Something I remembered in a little bit more context when I was later hypnotized by a psychiatrist about this, which I'll get to in a little while.
		Anyway, here I am in this situation and I'm trying to figure out, I'm trying to like make the bed reappear around me because that's where I'm supposed to be and I'm assuming it's a nightmare, a dream or something.
		It's not real.
		It can't be.
		Then I see this thing.
		It is.
		It shoots past toward my feet, a dark blue thing.
		Then a few moments later, I see what looks like a gigantic insect darting its face at me.
		And did I get scared?
		Well, no, I was completely calm.
		I was no problem whatsoever.
		I'm lying.
		I got terrified.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would be terrified.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Unbelievable.
		The terror was...
		It was unbelievably intense.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would you say it was paralyzing or it would have been no.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		I would have been going like beat 60 if I'd been able to move, but I could not do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that sounds paralyzing.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		I absolutely could not do that.
		And the phone is ringing.
		Yeah, I'm sorry, Art.
		I don't know how that happened.
		I must apologize.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Somebody dialed a number.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, somebody dialed another number in here.
		I had thought I had turned that blind off.
		I'm very sorry.
		Anyway, here I am in this situation.
unidentified		The you said it looked like an insect.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		It looked like a big insect.
		It looked like I saw eyes, like a big bug eyes, big shiny bug eyes.
		I didn't see anything else initially.
		Now what begins to happen is a couple of things.
		First, I begin to hear this voice saying, what can we do to help you stop screaming screaming?
		This voice is mechanical and very gentle, female sounding, but it's obviously a machine, some kind of a recording that somebody's made.
		And it's not reassuring because it doesn't sound human.
		It doesn't quite sound like a machine either.
		It's just damned weird.
		Damned weird.
		And I was so confused and frightened by it, and I could not move.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The next thing I see appear and disappear, Whitley?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or was you?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I darted around.
		They all were moving so fast I couldn't see them.
		I mean, I could see them, but only for seconds.
		And I didn't have much of a field of vision.
		Otherwise, I couldn't move my head.
		I couldn't move anything.
		And I heard this voice off to the side saying this.
		Then this blue creature that looked like a gigantic, it was almost frog-like.
		It was strange with a blue uniform, a lot of flaps on it, like a jumpsuit of some kind, kind of like a working suit, comes up and starts to open a box that has a needle in it.
		And by this time, I'm starting to shriek, and I get, I yell out something along the lines of, you're going to ruin a beautiful mind.
		Are you going to ruin my mind?
		Because it's getting ready to stick this thing in the side of my head, which it does do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ruin your knight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's going to ruin your mind.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Mine.
		My mind.
		I said mind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, mind.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		Mind.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no.
		My night is done.
		I was ruined already.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That knight was ruined.
		I was going to say, hold on, Whitley.
		We do have a break here.
		We've got lots of time on satellite radio, but occasional breaks.
		Insect eyes.
		I don't like the sound of that.
		Big insect eyes.
		And blue?
		Not a good color.
		I'm Art Bell, and this is Dark Matter with Whitley Streber.
unidentified		Once upon a time Once when you were mine I remember shining reflected in
		your light.
		I wonder where you are.
		I wonder...
		We'll be right back.
		You were dreaming around the beat.
		And the usual look at members of you.
		A dread ribbon fear.
		When I was cold and breathless, you moved over the night.
		The shadows of the trees appear beneath the lantern.
		Space, the new frontier for Art Bell's Dark Matter.
		To call the show, please dial 1-855-REAL UFO.
		That's 1-855-732-5836.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, the music kind of sets it for me.
		I don't know about you, but it sure does me.
		It sets the mood.
		And I'm in the mood, alright?
		So we've got this insect-like creature, bluish, above Whitley, who's in bed terrified, with a needle headed toward his head, I guess.
		And that's kind of where we left it.
		Whitley, I don't know how you tell this story without breaking down.
		Honestly, I don't.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've told the story a lot of times.
		I mean, quite a lot of times.
		I've gone far beyond this story.
		I mean, there's much, much more.
		This is the core story that we're retelling here for the listeners who have never heard it before, which you apparently have some of.
		So let us continue.
		Here we are.
		Here I am.
		I am in this, what I thought at this point was a tent, and because it had sort of gray walls.
		It was kind of circular and quite small.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How did you get there?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, suddenly you were.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		I have no idea.
		Well, I do have a vague, I had a vague memory the next morning of being carried by somebody, by people.
		It had not yet occurred to me that anything, I mean, the next morning, but let me go, before we go into that, let me go back to where we were, because the next thing that happened was extraordinary and terrible.
		I have subsequently learned a lot about what it was that happened, but what I initially felt was that I was, something was pushed into me anally, which has become a famous joke.
		The joke about the rectal probe, that the South Park, I believe, one of those.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So that's where it came from.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		That's where it came from.
		Yeah, exactly.
		However, I would like to mention to the listeners, just in passing, those who are snickering happily at this story, that it took me more than 20 years to even tell my wife what the doctor had told me about five or six days afterwards when I had gone to him.
		He told me, you have, Whitley, he said, you have been raped.
		Those were his words.
		And I was not able to say that.
		As a result of which, I became a national laughingstock for having a race.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I completely understand, Whitley.
		I completely understand.
		Really, I do.
		And I've seen all the jokes about it.
		I've seen what Cartman said, all the rest of it.
		But you know what?
		That's what it is, is rape.
		And there's nothing funny about that.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		You didn't react to it as something funny when we first talked about this on the radio, which was very refreshing, because I had gone on television show and radio program, television show and radio program again and again and again for two or three years.
		And every time I went on, I was laughed at for being raped.
		And I was not in a good state psychologically by that time.
		I wanted to do the same to some of the morons who had done this to me, who had been laughing at me.
		And as I recall, the gentleman who writes South Park actually did an interview in which they bragged about having used me as a role model, but not in such a way that I could sue them.
		They had been given legal advice.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		And I thought that was just extraordinarily cruel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, plus you're a public person.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, exactly.
		Once you're a public person in the U.S., forget it as far as that kind of thing is concerned.
		The sky is the limit, and anything goes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, actually, not quite everything, as I was able to prove.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Pretty much anything goes.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		You're an exception.
		But not exactly, because you see, in your case, it's a different story.
		I mean, there are some people involved in it who weren't public people, and so on and so forth.
		But anyway, here's the next thing I remembered clearly was the next morning.
		And there's a lot of, more to this, the next morning I wake up and I thought there was something had gone on.
		And I said to my wife, did you notice anything unusual during the night?
		She said, no, it was quiet.
		And so I figured, well, maybe it was a nightmare.
		But I had a feeling or sort of sense of there being, having been some kind of ruckus.
		And I was very uneasy during the day.
		I didn't, I was not in pain yet.
		That would happen.
		I was working on something, a story or something, that would later become important.
		But in any case.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So the next day, your memories were foggy of what happened?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		They were foggy.
		I mean, something had gone wrong.
		I was very clear on that.
		But I couldn't figure out what it could have been because, you know, Ann had been sleeping right beside me and there was absolutely nothing wrong.
		And there was nothing wrong in the house.
		My child was fine.
		No one had broken in.
		Toward the evening, I became frightened.
		I became terribly frightened.
		And I had been basically frightened all fall.
		I had, in October, I had bought an alarm system from Radio Shack and installed it.
		I had become obsessed.
		I had bought guns.
		I was marching around the house at night with a shotgun in my hands.
		I mean, in the middle of the woods where, you know, no crime had been committed since the Indians had been there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I'd have a gun too.
		I'd have a gun too.
		Do you have a memory of when that needle went into your head?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, I have vivid memories of all of it.
		But the first thing that happened was the next, not that day, but the day after.
		First that night, as the night fell, I got very frightened.
		And I decided that an owl had come into the house.
		And it's sitting right beside me right now.
		She probably remembers this very well.
		She's nodding.
		I said, I think maybe an owl got in during the night.
		And she said, how could an owl get in?
		And I realized that was true.
		I mean, we didn't even have a chimney.
		We had a wood stove.
		But, you know, an owl's not going to come down the chimney of a wood stove that's lit.
		And their windows were all shut, so no owl.
		The night came, and it was terrible.
		I could not sleep.
		Finally, I got to sleep.
		And the next day, I'm sitting there working, and I began to hurt.
		My rectum starts to hurt.
		My head starts to hurt.
		And they're hurting a lot.
		And I'm aware of the fact At this point, I have been in some way assaulted.
		I just can't remember it clearly.
		So I go to the doctor a couple days later, and he goes through this, he examines me, he says, well, this little thing on your head is probably a spider bite, so it looks like to me.
		And then he says, he looks at me and examines me, and he says, well, you know, you do know that you've been raped.
		And I thought, holy God, how can this be?
		And then I immediately, that evening, driving back up to the country house from the doctor's office in New York, I began to remember that I had been in the woods with a group of people.
		And I remembered one of them in particular was an old friend.
		And I don't know if I've put this in communion or not.
		It's in the new book, Solving the Community Enigma, because I got it figured out later.
		And I remembered him in the woods.
		So when I got home, I went and looked around in the woods trying to figure out it was very snowy.
		I'd figure out some indication of where I had been or seen him or what.
		No success.
		And I began to think, you know, well, he joined, we were college friends.
		He joined the Central Intelligence Agency.
		I had heard from him off and on over the years, but not much.
		And I thought to myself, my God, wait a minute.
		The Kennedy guy says to me, they're gunning for me.
		Now this happens.
		Did somebody come in here and drug me?
		Is that what happened?
		And if so, this son of bitch knows about it.
		So this is the, at this point I'm also, I start trying to get a hold of it.
		I had his phone number in his home and can't get his disconnected.
		And I forgot figures, you know, a bastard.
		And I'm running after him.
		It's a crime.
		And at this point, I'd also, going down another path, my brother had given me a book about UFOs for Christmas.
		And I was reading this book, and that got me to talking to Bud Hopkins, who was a huge UFO investigator at the time.
		And he introduced me.
		He wanted to hypnotize me.
		And I said, oh, no, forget it.
		If anyone hypnotizes me, it has to be a true professional.
		So to his credit, he found Dr. Donald Klein, who was the head of the New York State Department of Psychiatry at the time, and had been a forensic hypnotist for years.
		At that point in his career, he'd solved over 70 cases using memory-based hypnosis.
		Of course, after Communion came out, there were hundreds of media stories about how hypnosis is this and hypnosis is that.
		All crap.
		It works perfectly well forensically.
		It's worked forensically for years, and it is a perfectly adequate means of recovering lost memories.
		Okay, that said, one of the best professionals in the world would hypnotize me shortly thereafter.
		But anyway, getting back to this business with a friend.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so far, I fully understand your reaction.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, after that report with the doctor and recognizing this guy, you go after him hard as you can.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		So I figure I'm sort of meet the doctor.
		We're kind of laughing up our sleeves at Bud, who's very sincerely believes I've been abducted by aliens.
		And I have to tell you, I was thinking that, you know, this guy is a fool, but the doctor is really good.
		So I got into hypnosis with the doctor.
		And I remembered things that I regarded as utterly impossible.
		They were essentially the same things that had been in my mind, that had been troubling me because it was like a psychotic break, okay?
		I mean, it was just bizarre.
		And I'm having this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You were recorded during hypnosis?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		The recordings are available on my website.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		The recordings of the hypnosis, two hypnosis sessions are available on my website.
		And on unknowncountry.com.
		I think you have to be a subscriber to listen to them, but that's another story.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's amazing to me that you would put them up there, really?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, I put them up there because this is the truth.
		This is all the truth.
		Whether it's about aliens or not, we'll get to that.
		But it's the truth.
		Now, back to the doctor's office.
		I have this bizarre couple of hypnosis sessions, and I leave this thinking.
		He thought that I had been the victim of a crime and that these bug insect faces would turn out to be people that we could perhaps identify.
		So I'm left with the bugs and no idea of what's going on.
		It seems completely crazy to me.
		And so I now zero in on the CIA guy.
		I figure he's got to be responsible.
		They shot me up with LSD or whatever.
		I don't take drugs.
		I know nothing, very little about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He's the only one you recognize, so where else to go?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		So here is what happened finally.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		I finally tracked him down and found out he'd been dead since the previous March when I saw him in my woods.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, brother.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		And I thought to myself, oh, boy, you are going insane.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		You have lost it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, no.
		I want to be clear.
		I'm sorry, Whitley.
		You're saying he had been dead since the incident?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		No, no, since long before the incident.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Long before.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		See, nine months before, the previous March, March of 85.
		And here it is now, early 86, nearly a year later.
		The guy was dead when I saw him.
		He'd been long dead.
unidentified		Okay.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		So, okay, now table that for a minute.
		Then start with MRI scans, with tests for temporal lobe epilepsy, with every kind of test you could imagine.
		I even took lie detector tests to see if I was lying to myself.
		And in the end, I was left face to face with the unknown.
		I had to face the fact that I did not know what happened to me, and that damned crazy as it seemed, Bud Hopkins' explanation was the best one out there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How did you do with the lie detector tests?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fine.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		I took a number of them.
		I took two of them from the guy who did lie detector tests for the New York City Police Department.
		And then I took another for the BBC in London because they wouldn't let me go on the BBC unless I took a lie detector test and signed a document stating that no matter the outcome, I would go on the air with it.
		And I passed that one too.
		I passed all the tests.
		My MRIs were normal.
		I did not have temporal lobe epilepsy.
		Although a few years later, apparently, I've been led to believe it might have been the U.S. Air Force and some of their little social engineering projects that they should not be engaging in, but probably do, placed a fake story in Parade magazine saying that I had admitted I had temporal lobe epilepsy and made a big contribution to the Epilepsy Foundation.
		They did that right before I put out my book, Confirmation, which was critical of the Air Force for keeping secrets it should not keep, in my opinion.
		And so that was out there.
		In any case, I didn't have any diseases.
		I was perfectly healthy.
		I didn't even have high blood pressure.
		There was one thing that was noticed, and that was I took an extensive bank of psychological tests, and the psychologist said, you are under extreme tension.
		You are under very high levels of stress, and you should definitely do something about that, because this level of stress that you're under, which is showing up in these tests, is not normal, even for a person who is in a stressful situation.
		It's most unusual.
		And ten years later, I took the same test, and I was still under the same stress.
		I guess I'm good at handling stress.
		In any case, so at this point, I became very compulsive about this thing.
		I started going out into the woods at night from the house with my wife terrified of what might happen to me and neither one of us understanding what was going on, very frightened for our child.
		But I couldn't stop.
		I couldn't stop going to the country house.
		I couldn't stop going in the woods.
		She would not let me go up alone.
		And eventually, along about March or April, these little creatures started to come back.
		And they started to come back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, you said you became compulsive about and went into the woods.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, isn't that, I don't know, almost inviting it?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		It was inviting it.
		Oh, absolutely inviting it.
		That was my intention.
		Because I figured this.
		Whatever happened was one of the most extraordinary and unusual things that's ever happened to anybody.
		And I'm not going to run away from it, for God's sake.
		I'm a writer.
		I'm going to write about it.
		I'm going to go out in those woods and I'm going to get this thing figured out.
		I'm going to nail it down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What was Anne, your wife, saying to you in this period?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, she had to be worried at all kinds of levels about you.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		So how did she feel?
		Well, we had, initially, I had, when I thought I was going insane, I tried to get her to divorce me, and we had fights.
		Anne is an incredibly courageous person.
		Anne is a, she fought for her marriage, she fought for my sanity, and when she realized what was really going on, she fought and has continued to fight to this day on behalf of this truth.
		And when we started to get mail after communion came out back in the letter days when there were still letters and people weren't just dashing off emails all the time.
		There were real letters, physical letters.
		We got them by the bag full, by the thousands, by the tens of thousands, finally by the hundreds of thousands over a period of 20 years.
		Again and again and again, people telling their stories from all over the world.
		And Anne is a speed reader.
		She's very brilliant.
		She read these letters.
		She read them all.
		She created a chart which she kept on the wall in her office.
		And on that chart, eventually there appeared the phrase, which has gotten me in a lot of trouble with the UFO community.
		They want this to be aliens and silvered flying saucers from another planet who are coming and sampling our DNA and whatever else they're doing.
		She said, and I'm quoting her, this has something to do with what we call death.
		And here's why she said that.
		I am not the only person to see a dead friend in connection with this experience.
		That's commonplace.
		You'll never hear that from the UFO investigators, but it's commonplace.
		It's ordinary.
		It is in letter after letter after letter.
		And when we began to have groups of people up at our cabin and had group experiences, very complex experiences with these visitors, they showed up.
		They bought into this effort I was making.
		They came.
		They were there off and on for 11 years, Arch.
		11 years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, it has something to do with death, Whitley.
		That's really interesting.
		And okay, have you come to understand what it has to do with death?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, let me tell you a story, because that's how I live and how I communicate in stories, as you know.
		Sure, sure.
		Okay.
		I am sitting in my office one day.
		Phone rings.
		It's my agents, William Morris's agency in New York.
		They say there is a man desperately trying to get a hold of you, Mr. Streeber.
		And I thought to myself, he said he's a member of the public, and I thought, you know, I'm pretty well hidden.
		If this guy has found my literary agency, he's trying real hard, and there must be, he says it's terribly important, and he's desperate.
		So I call him.
		He tells me this story.
		He and his wife are in their bedroom, I mean in their living room.
		Their old dog is asleep on the hearth.
		It's night, 10 o'clock or so at night.
		Suddenly, the dog becomes very agitated.
		And the dog needs to go out again, the second time.
		Very unusual for this dog.
		The wife takes the dog out.
		As she's opening the front door, she sees a fireball race off across the sky and disappear beyond the pine trees around their house.
		She turns back to her husband and says, I just saw a plane going down in flames.
		You're going to get a call because he's with the FAA.
		At that moment, their little seven-year-old boy comes running downstairs saying, Mommy, Daddy, Mommy, Daddy, little blue men, note this, little blue men, familiar?
		Yeah, I had seen them.
		Little blue men, same guys, came into my room and they had Bobby, his older brother, with them.
		And he said to tell you he's all right.
		This is why this desperate father had made this call.
		The boy, the older boy, the teenager, had died in an auto accident the week before.
		He wanted to know and he asked me, can you tell me if anyone else has ever had an experience remotely like this?
		Do I have any reason to believe this?
		And I said to him, I have.
		And many others have.
		It's ordinary.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And this is going to be disturbing to so many people on so many levels because on so many levels.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		It means this.
		The soul is real.
		There is an afterlife.
		And not only that, we aren't alone in it.
		That all of these cherished beliefs we have about heavens and hells or the Bill Maher conceit that this is it and we don't have to worry about it anymore.
		When we die, we're dead.
		We're just pieces of meat.
		All of that, all of it, both the believers and the non-believers, it's all out the window.
		Because the truth is, we do have an afterlife, but we don't know a thing about it.
		We don't have the straight story in any way, in my opinion, judging from what I have seen and heard myself and seen and heard from thousands of other witnesses.
		That's the truth of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's the truth of it.
		That's a big wow.
		Hold it right there.
		I'll do the break and we'll come back.
		That's a good place to break or a bad place, depending on how you look at it.
unidentified		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There is an afterlife.
		But not the one we've been taught about.
		All right, the Senta Ally Bluetooth Speaker.
		Not an easy transition from Whitling.
		This is a remarkable product.
		It's hard to sell because it's hard to describe in a sense.
		It's about nine inches long.
		And there is a lot packed into that nine inches.
		It's just remarkable.
		It's a speaker.
		All right?
		And much more.
		But think of it as a speaker that will produce sound that is wonderful.
		If you're used to hearing, you know, your little cell phone or your tablet or whatever.
		Pretty tinny audio, right?
		But you've got all your favorite music there.
		So if you don't have headphones on, how are you going to hear the music properly?
		This is the answer right here.
		The Centa Ally Bluetooth.
		That's right.
		Bluetooth speaker.
		When you get it, you can mate it up with whatever you want.
		Your cell phone, your tablet.
		It's even got a built-in FM radio, by the way.
		It's got rechargeable batteries.
		It will last about get this, folks, 10 hours.
unidentified		So, you made it up with your cell phone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And all of a sudden, just like that, that fast, your favorite music is coming out of the Senta Ally.
		And it sounds like, I don't know, it sounds like a big hi-fi stereo.
		And it's just this little thing that you can carry.
		In fact, it comes with a carrying case.
		So, Bluetooth to anything you want.
		Built-in FM radio.
		That's just sort of a gigantic bonus.
		And it works wirelessly with whatever you've got, including a satellite radio.
		Anything else you can name that might have Bluetooth connectivity.
		And if it doesn't, there's a little 1-8-inch cord you can plug in from whatever it is, like, say, a satellite radio.
		And then you're all set.
		You will get this, and you will show it to one of your friends.
		And I guarantee you, that friend will go, I want one.
		Or I'm going to take that one.
		And I'll pay you for it.
		It's $69.95.
unidentified		It's that good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Senta Ally Bluetooth speaker, you should call the Sea Crane Company right this minute and order one.
		Trust me on this.
		You'll be the hit of any gathering you're around.
		You know, you show it to people, they go berserk.
		The number is 1-800-522-8863.
		I'm going to give you the number again, and again, you can call it right now and order the Senta Ally Bluetooth speaker.
		1-800-522-8863.
		Seacrain Company.
		All right, with us tonight is Whitley Streever.
		And his story is, you know, on the one hand, I want to say like no other, and really it is like no other, except Whitley's telling you, and I'm telling you, that many others have experienced some portion of or what he did.
		So it's not as uncommon as you think.
		But it is scary.
		This is Dark Matter.
unidentified		I can feel it calling in the air tonight.
		Oh, Lord.
		And I've been waiting for this moment for all my life.
		Oh Lord.
		My love is alive.
		My love is alive.
		Yes, yeah.
		Dark Matter, much like SiriusXM, is all around you.
		To beam up with us, please dial 1-855-REAL UFO.
		That's 1-855-732-5836.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, don't call yet.
		Just make note of the number, and I'll let you know when we're going to go to the lives.
		My guest is Whitley Streeber, and I've got to tell you, I've sat and I've thought about this in the last few moments, and if what had happened to Whitley happened to me, I'm not at all sure that I would have come forward.
		I guess I would have gone to the doctor.
		I would have chased that guy who we now learned had actually died earlier.
		But maybe that's where I would have stopped.
		I don't know that I would have been going into the woods nightly.
		I don't know that I would have told a soul save perhaps my wife.
		I really thought hard about this.
		I don't think that I would have told people this story.
		That takes a lot of courage, Woodley.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, Art, if looking back now, I definitely would not have done this.
		If I had known what it would be like, what my life would be like having done it, I never, and what my family would have gone through.
		Never.
		But at the time, it didn't seem like it's that.
		It seemed like a rather unusual and fascinating story.
		My publisher probably knew that it would be a bigger sensation than I did.
		But we both thought it had happened to maybe 50 people in the world.
		And I had by that time met Bob Hopkins' group of abductees.
		And, you know, we just, he thought it was maybe a couple hundred people.
		I thought 50.
		I thought maybe he knew about half of the people, 25 or so who had happened to it.
		Because nobody ever talks about it.
		It was nothing about it at all.
unidentified		I had no idea what would happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what you just told me about death, the association with death really got to me.
		And here's somebody, Tim, is sending me a message who says, is it possible, could there be a connection with John Lear's assertion that aliens are using the soul catcher technology when humans pass on?
		And John has said something like that.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Oh, Lord.
		May it not be so.
		I have no idea whether or not anything called soul catcher technology even exists or such a thing could be real.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's just a phrase, but I mean, it obviously has a connection to aliens and to our souls and to death.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, one thing, a couple of things are very clear.
		One is there is a lot of this connection and a lot of reports from not only from people who had encounters with their dead friends and relatives at my cabin in the context of contact with the Grays, but also in the letters.
		And there aren't any where there are any people from the other side who are desperate for help or screaming that they've been trapped or anything like that.
		Of course, if there's some that have been trapped, then we're obviously not going to know, we're not going to hear from them because they're trapped.
		But let me give you an example.
		And this is someone who's been on the air with me, and she's mentioned by name in my book, In Solving Community Enigma.
		She's borne witness to this.
		Both of these people whose names I'll mention have many times.
		These are not people who are shy about this at all.
		First one is Lori Barnes.
		Lori is a, and has, my wife is, she doesn't realize it.
		She's got a, she's a psychic, but she's a non-aware of her psychic powers, psychic.
		And she got Lori, she was reading the letters, and she said suddenly, I need a secretary, and this lady is going to be the secretary.
		It turned out she lived in Manhattan across the street from us.
		And she was also an excellent secretary.
		So she came into our life.
		Ann brought her in, and they worked on the letters together for years.
		And she'd come up to the cabin.
		And one time, Anne said, I'm going to get a group of people up at the cabin who will come together, and the visitors are going to come when they're there.
		And so she got Ann, she got Laurie Barnes, she got another lady called Raven Dana, who'd had a lot of contact experiences, a number of other people.
		And this was the second big group we'd had up there.
		So we knew it could work.
		And the first thing that happened in that was in the late afternoon, Laurie's out walking on the road by herself.
		And suddenly, she sees a man standing in the road.
		It's her brother.
		Now, this is something big in her life because her brother's disappeared from the face of the earth 20 years before, and the FBI had given up on the case.
		And suddenly, there he is standing in the road, and she says, you're back.
		He's wearing this sort of brown cowl-like thing, which immediately sort of brings up, makes her think this is not a normal experience.
		And he says, I just wanted to tell you that I'm fine.
		Whereupon, he lifts off and sort of floats back into the woods and disappears.
		She comes back to the house in what could be described as a state of agitation and tells the story.
		We're all fascinated.
		But it's typical of the story.
		You notice the boy in the house, the story I told earlier, tell mom and dad I'm all right.
		I just want you to know I'm all right.
		Another case at the cabin, this was in another very complex experience with the 17 people in the cabin, including a magazine editor from a big magazine, who has promised that if the visitors show up, he will write about it in his magazine.
		They do show up, he does see them, then he says, I can't write about it, it'll ruin my career.
		I was up against that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I might have.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		But why did he make the promise to them and to me?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Why make a promise you can't keep?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know what?
		When you're making a promise like that, never in a million years do you think it's really going to happen.
		So you make it easily and you think you're going to write about, well, it's like the old Life magazine.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		I had a friend, Timothy Greenfield Saunders, who's the first person I ever told this story to.
		He's a famous photographer in New York.
		And he decided he wanted to do a story for Life magazine about this.
		And we traveled all around the country to different places where these people had had experiences.
		And at the end of it, in Gulf Breeze, Florida, he and Anne and I saw this marvelously beautiful UFO.
		And so we had this picture and everything for Life magazine.
		They had expected us to say we went around and we didn't see a single thing.
		Ho, ho, ho.
		End of story.
		Instead, we said we not only saw a UFO, we have a picture of it.
		They wouldn't run it.
		They wouldn't run the story.
		And they said, well, our audience is very religious and they won't take kindly to this story now, so we won't run it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I hate to say I understand, but I actually do.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		I do, too.
		And I find it very disturbing that we can't, we are collectively kind of turned away from the truth.
		But once you face the truth, it feels so good and so right.
		But anyway, let's go back to Lori and to these other incidents.
		This next incident happened before Lori.
		The visitors show up in the living room while the magazine editor and three other people are lying there on couches in the cots, not asleep, of course.
		I mean, who's going to sleep on a night like that?
		Obviously, it's about 2 o'clock in the morning.
		And suddenly one of them says, I can't move.
		And they all can't move, but they can still talk.
		And there are the blue guys are in there jumping around like the flying Karamatzov brothers jumping around in the living room.
		Meanwhile, down in the basement, there's a couple in a more private context because they're recently married young couple, as I recall.
		And they wake up because the room is filled with light suddenly.
		And there standing at the foot of the bed is a friend of theirs from Mexico, who one of them was Mexican.
		And from Mexico, who had died in the Mexico City earthquake of 1983, and this was like 1988 or 89.
		And she says, I'd like you to know that I'm all right.
		And she's standing there big as life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that'll certainly modify a newlywed moment.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, they had their honeymoon, for sure.
		In any case, this is typical of these experiences.
		The encounters with the dead come in the context of encounters especially with the little blue guys.
		And this thing, Art, it's not secret.
		It's that we don't choose to look.
		Let me tell you another story.
		This happened to a psychologist.
		He is driving on the Grand Central Parkway in New York, in Queens, near LaGuardia Airport.
		And suddenly he sees a plane coming toward him in the altitude of 300 to 200 feet.
		A huge jet looks like it's going to land on the highway.
		It's missed the runway and is somehow or another landing on the highway.
		And he thinks, holy God, we're all going to be killed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure, sure.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		It goes over at nosebleed altitude.
		And as it's going over, he realizes this is not a real airplane.
		The engines aren't real.
		They're solid.
		something is very wrong here.
		And he slows down.
		He starts to pull over because he's in shock.
		He doesn't, does anybody else see it?
		Then he sees cars parked on the roadside.
		He says, yes, people have seen this thing.
		He gets out and he sees this strange thing on the roadside, up on a little berm above the road, like a billboard with strange symbols passing across it like one of those lighted signs in Times Square.
		And there are people walking through the dark under it.
		And they're kind of beginning to gather and stand in a circle.
		And he's, well, what the hell?
		He goes over there, and they are standing there, and he starts to try to join the circle.
		All of a sudden, he finds himself surrounded by these short, very dark blue figures who strike him as being tough as nails.
		And yes, I agree with that.
		I've had some experiences with them.
		These guys are not fooling around.
		They may fool with the soul, but they're not fooling around.
		And one of them snarls at him and says, get out of here.
		He turns around.
		He goes back to his car.
		He gets in his car.
		He goes home.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what I would have done.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, now I put that story in Breakthrough, I believe, one of my books.
		And I got letters from people, other people who had been on the highway and seen it happen.
		Now, it happened on a highway in New York.
		How often does that happen?
		And nobody says anything.
		Nobody remembers.
unidentified		This is life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		How often does any of what you've been talking about happen?
		All the time.
		And I think so.
		And then I'm told, you know, I'd be so hesitant to say anything, Woodley.
		I'd really be hesitant.
		I debated with myself until the cows came home after I saw that big triangle UFO.
		I came so close to not telling it because, you know, I was talking about this kind of thing.
		They eat you alive.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		They eat you alive.
		There's some part of us deep inside us that wants to keep this thing undercover.
		We believe we have been programmed somehow to keep this secret.
		And people will hate you.
		They'll eat you alive.
		They'll do anything.
		Anything to keep this under wraps, especially when it comes close to them.
		When they hear the tone of truth in someone's voice, they don't want to hear that.
		It makes them mad.
		Full of hatred.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		With regard to what I saw, the only thing that made me feel better, and I did, I made the decision to tell it first and went on the air with it and all the rest of it.
		What made me feel better was that within a week, a newspaper article came out saying that I wasn't the only one, that people all across the valley had seen this same mysterious craft.
		And oh, they said it was a C-130, which was ridiculous.
		But, you know, to hear that other people saw it made me feel so good.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it does feel good.
		And it made me feel good to get all those letters, too.
		Because all of a sudden I was realizing that not only was I not the only one, but I was actually not having the strangest experiences or the scariest.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what you had will do for me.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, listen, you want to be, I can take you down any path you want to go in terms of strangeness and weirdness.
		Even in my own life, in Solving Community News, which, by the way, nobody read, it's out there.
		If you can want it, you can get it.
		It's an e-book.
		You can get it at a bookstore.
		Possibly if they carry it.
		Most bookstores won't even carry my books because it's Whitley Striber.
		You don't want to carry his book.
		He's a liar.
		And people hate the truth.
		They love a lie.
		You go out on the UFO circuit and you tell lies.
		You'll get 1,000 people in the auditorium listening to your lies.
unidentified		Whereas you tell the truth and you get 53 people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see where the UFO community starts to have a problem with what you're saying.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And, you know, when you start mixing souls in with this, we don't need the soul.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		The soul is very unfashionable right now.
		I mean, the soul is, we're meat.
		We don't, we're scientists in the UFO community.
		We're scientists, too.
		We don't want to talk about souls.
		Oh, God.
		That's a less.
		We want to be believed here.
		Well, if you tell the truth, you can forget being believed.
		It ain't going to happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's already difficult when you're talking about aliens.
		That's hard enough.
		When you start combining it with the kind of experience you had and then dead folks, I can go farther out and still be telling the truth.
		Go where you need to go.
		Go anywhere you want.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Let's go back to Lori Barnes then.
		Tell you another experience she had.
		This was in 1954.
		She's now, at this point in her life, she's a young woman.
		She's pregnant.
		She's at home alone one night.
		Her husband is an entertainer.
		He works at night.
		And all of a sudden, she hears a noise and looks up, and to her horror, these little dark blue figures are standing in a row, in a line beside her bed.
		Horrible creatures, like frog-like.
		You know what they remind me of?
		Remember the movie Ghost?
		The person who wrote that movie had an unconscious knowledge of these creatures because the creatures that come up in that movie are like these guys.
		Anyway, that's aside.
		Let's go back to Lori.
unidentified		And she's shocked beyond words.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		I mean, she's pregnant with her baby, and these monsters are suddenly in the room.
		And she's terrified.
		One of them, the one at the front, puts its hand on her arm and says, do not be afraid.
		We are not here because of you.
		We are interested in the girl child you're carrying.
		Which, as Laurie said, mighty words.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		And she said, and this is the key part, she said, and listen closely.
unidentified		My God, you're so ugly.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		And he said, one day, my dear, you will look just like us.
		So are you ready, Yard, for your next time around?
		I'm telling you, we're just starting out.
		We can go way down the road into another level of reality, into another kind of truth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Jeff asks the following.
		Could it be possible that these abductees aren't seeing deceased people, but could it be that the abductors are using their memories to calm them somehow during this experience?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Is it at all a deception on some level to calm them or to deceive them into believing something about this that isn't true?
		Yes, of course it could be.
		Of course.
		I'm not going to defend this in that way.
		What I'm saying is the truth is something extremely strange is happening.
		This is real.
		This is the truth.
		What it is, and what it actually all means in the final analysis, that question I cannot answer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, certainly it is very reasonable, I think, to ask if perhaps these creatures are looking into your brain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold on.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, we've got a break here.
		And looking in, finding something familiar and then presenting you with that so that you don't lose your mind on the spot.
		You're listening to Dark Matter.
		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		Get it with me.
		Don't smile for people as you need.
		I was a highwayman.
		Along the coach roads I did ride, sword and pistol by my side.
		Many a young maid lost her baubles to my trade.
		Many a soldier shed his lifeblood on my blade.
		The master taught me him to spring up pointed by.
		But I am still alive.
		I was a sailor.
		I was born upon the die.
		With the sea I did a fight.
		I sailed a scooter around the horn of Mexico.
		I went along the world amazing.
		And when the yards broke off, they said that I got killed.
		But I'm living still.
		I was a bad builder across the river deep and wide.
		We're stealing water deep.
		A place called Motor Holder.
		I slept and built it to the wet conduct below.
		They favored me electric to the local side.
		But I'll still ride.
		I'll always be around.
		Want to take a ride?
		To call Dark Matter with Art Bell and be part of the Sirius XM's VLS Very Large Signal.
		Please call 1-855-REAL UFO.
		That's 1-855-732-5836.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Around and around.
		What's it going to be like next time?
		Some songs are just so bright.
		Whitley, welcome back.
		Hello, Whitley.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Around and around.
		What's it going to be like next time?
		I wonder, too.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		You have an incredibly beautiful family, by the way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		That daughter.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		She is something special.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Something else, yeah, I know.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my.
		And such a nice wife.
		Oh, my.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Still working on this time around.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		You're in it.
		Deep in it.
		In the middle of life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you take me down.
unidentified		Yeah, you take me down any road you want.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, why don't we do this?
		Um, sobbing community.
		I went back over the life that Anne and I have spent together because I had noticed something interesting.
		I had noticed that in my childhood, I had some very weird experiences that I wrote about in a book called The Secret School.
		I had completely forgotten them until I, under hypnosis with Dr. Klein, he noticed a change in my tone of voice.
		And I was telling about seeing these beings when I'd been on a train.
		I was listening to myself talking.
		You know, you're sort of detached from yourself when you're being hypnotized by a real pro.
		And he suddenly says, how old are you?
		And I heard my voice from my little Texas childhood voice when I was a kid.
		And I heard my voice just pops right out of my mouth without me even realizing it.
		12.
unidentified		And I thought, holy God.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		So anyway, I had done that.
		But this all was out of my life, as I said before, from the time of about 12 until it happened again in 1985.
		So, but Anne and I, when we were working on solving community enigma, we were going over the things that had happened in our life together, and I realized something.
		This started up again as soon as we met and got together.
		That was the catalyst for it starting up again.
		And it started very strangely and very subtly with some odd experiences.
		We lived on West 55th Street in Manhattan in an area called Clinton that was pretty ramshackle in those days.
		We had no money.
		I mean, we were a couple of just broke kids.
		And yeah, I'm sure it's a familiar experience for you and many others.
		Anyway, we had a stereo, and it was on one night, but not playing anything.
		It was just, you know, the tuner was on, which you sometimes leave the tuner on.
		And suddenly a voice came out of the tuner and started talking to us.
		And there was a brief exchange of sort of banal exchange, like it said, hello, and I said, hello.
		And it said something like, how are you?
		It was a male voice, young male voice.
		And I said, I'm fine.
		Who is this?
		And then it said, I know something else about you.
		I said, what?
		And it was just silent.
		Nothing more said.
		Then a couple of days later, I was going up in the elevator.
		And this kind of, this lady, she never struck me as crazy or anything, who lived in the building, was in it.
		And she was all sort of hunched up.
		She looked very uneasy.
		And she was coming up from the basement where there was a laundry room.
		And she said, there's something wrong with somebody living in this building.
		He looks like a corpse.
		Oh, boy, that's all we need.
		And so I go on upstairs, and then I sort of forget about it.
		That night, I hear this strange kind of, like someone rubbing on our door, sort of like they're rubbing their hands on the door and it's making this kind of hissing sound and that goes away after a while.
		And finally, and it's been quiet for a while, I hear voices, and I open the door and I look out and there's this blood on the wall, a streak of blood, like a long, you know, fingerprints of blood going down the stairwell.
		And I follow it all the way down to the bottom floor where there's a crowd of people from the other floors who have seen it, all come in and out and seen this.
		And they've all gone down into the lobby.
		And the cops show up.
		And they try to question our superintendent who spoke no language.
		He didn't speak either.
		He sounded like he, to a person who spoke English, he sounded like someone with a very thick Spanish accent.
		But to someone who spoke Spanish, he didn't speak Spanish either.
		So we all knew that, but the cops didn't.
		They couldn't get anything out of him.
		And finally, the cop that spoke Spanish says, he doesn't speak any language, does he?
		He said, no, we say he does not.
		Anyway, it was never figured out.
		They cleaned up the building.
		But then, a couple of nights later, I'm going to put out the trash, and I hear this noise from the floor below, this sort of funny noise.
		It was like a noise.
		I go down there, and coming around the corner is this apparition.
		It is like rotted.
		The teeth are showing like the, you know, like a person's been dead for a couple of months.
		And the teeth are, it's just unbelievably frightening looking, sort of jerking itself along, coming along the hallway.
		And I run upstairs immediately.
		And a second later, it's in our hallway.
		I run and I close the door.
		It's locked the door.
		And the door is sort of pushed against for a while.
		And then it goes away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, God.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, it sounds like something that in modern literature has to be shot in the head to die.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Oh, God.
		Well, anyway, you know, but here's the thing.
		And you find this, I found this in talking to a lot of the people who wrote these extraordinary letters.
		When it happens to you, it feels ordinary.
		And it happened to me.
		It happened to people in my building.
		It was weird, but, you know, we were living in it.
		We were with it.
		We were in it.
		We were kind of living with it.
		And we, anyway, what happened was I went out in the alley to look up because they had come out of the apartment immediately below ours, I was pretty sure.
		And the apartment was boarded, the windows were boarded up from the inside.
		You could see there was plywood on all the windows.
		And so I call a landlord, and I say there's this very unpleasant and weird person living in here.
		He's boarded up all of his windows.
		I want to know what's going on.
		And he said, this apartment below you, I said, yeah, 7H.
		He says, there's nobody living there.
		It's empty.
		It's vacant right now.
		I said, no, it's not.
		There's somebody living in there, and they boarded up the windows.
		He said, no.
		He said, all right, I'll send someone over there today, and we will clean this place up.
		They get in there.
		It's a mess, apparently.
		The windows are all boarded up.
		There has been someone living there.
		They are not there Now they unboard the windows, they clean the place up, and eventually it's rented again.
		And who knows what happened?
		But he was gone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good for gone.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		The corpse moved.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Coming back to the aliens for a moment and the dead.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very interesting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And, you know, it just occurred to me when somebody named Ira sent me a wormhole message that said, isn't that what they did in contact by using Ellie's father?
unidentified		Remember the end of Contact?
unidentified		The movie Contact?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		I'm working.
		I'm not remembering the movie.
		Oh, Carl Sagan.
		Well, how could you forget?
		No, no, I remember.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sagan now, of course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, at the end, remember, she was reunited with her father who had passed away.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		Carl Sagan knew a lot of stuff about this.
		I had a couple of conversations with him, and I knew some people who were very close to him.
		And he didn't say a lot about a lot of what he knew.
		I think probably because it was sort of hearsay and he couldn't prove it or who knows?
		Maybe he was an insider, like some people say.
		I don't know.
		But he had, I'm not surprised.
		I'm not at all surprised.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you describe in some detail?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, a lot of what you've said, I think, has contributed to the modern conception of what a gray is.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you describe, I mean, is it like the grays of the movies?
		Shape of the head, shape of the eyes, the body size, is that smaller than you think.
		Smaller.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Smaller.
		Yeah, smaller than you think, and with capabilities that you do not expect.
		I'll give you an example.
		One of the buildings, one of the houses in our little neighborhood where our cabin was, there were about six or seven other houses there at the time.
		It was just being developed.
		And there are now about 12 houses.
		It wasn't a very big development.
		But in any case, the house is just being closed up and finished up.
		Finished out, as they say.
		Roof's been put on it.
		And one of the workmen's got all of his tools in there.
		So he decides he's going to stay in there for the night with his tools because he can't move them out until the morning because there's a big lot of tools and his co-worker has got the truck, so he's there with his car.
		And he stays there the night.
		He is awakened in the middle of the night, and he's horrified to see this little creature in the room, in the same type of creature that Raven Dana would see in our cabin a little while, right, years later.
		Which is a story I haven't told yet, but we'll get to.
		In any case, he sees this thing, and it's about three feet tall with the big eyes, and it's standing there like a deer caught in headlights.
		He experiences a terrific burst of fear, which you can understand, I mean, because an animal, unlike any animal he has ever seen before, is inside the house with him in the middle of the night, and he's all alone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		And not only that, it's dark and he can't see it all that well.
		He grabs his flashlight and turns the flashlight on, shines it on this thing for a couple of seconds, whereupon it turns into what looks to him like a bird of paradise, a bird.
		That happened in our cabin too, but it was a different type of bird.
		And it disappears by going straight out through the closed doors, right through the glass without breaking it.
		Tools or no tools.
		He gets in his car and goes home.
		Immediately later, he came the next day and got his tools.
		He told me this story after he read Communion.
		And I might say, incidentally, speaking of that, on the night it happened, there was a witness.
		This I did not know until years after the book was published.
		I wish I had known.
		The witness was a friend who lived in the same area.
		He was the guy who was building the houses, a good friend at the time, in fact.
		He and his wife were coming home from a party.
		This was during Christmas time, and there were a lot of parties, at about 2 o'clock in the morning.
		And they saw in a field near our houses what looked to him like the Goodyear blimp down in a field.
		And here he is a state trooper.
		So he figures, I'm going to stop, and this thing has crashed.
		I'm going to stop and help.
		See if I can help anybody.
		Pulls over, goes out into the field, and he begins to hear someone screaming inside this thing.
		So he starts to run toward it.
		All of a sudden, it's lit with bright lights.
		He can no longer hear the screaming, and it starts coming toward him, making a growling noise.
		And his wife goes into a hissy fit and completely freaks out in the car, of course.
		I mean, as you want to understand.
		And he figures, this is perhaps not for me, after all, since it seems to be under control.
		And he goes back to the car and he drives away.
		He reads Communion about a year later.
		And about a year after that, he says to me, you know, Whitley, I've got to tell you something I'm very ashamed to tell you about, but I was there on the night this happened to you.
		I saw it.
		And I ran.
		And I said to him, good for you.
unidentified		Smart move.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		He was relieved to hear that.
		But I was sad that I hadn't ever had him.
		He was not willing to go witness.
		By that time, he had retired from the troopers, but he was not willing to bear witness publicly.
		And I can understand that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know what?
		Maybe it's time to take a second and talk about witnesses.
		Whitley, you've got an implant that they implanted you at some point.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Somebody did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, during one of these experiences.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I can tell you all about it.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		I was wide awake.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Implant in your ear.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		In May of 1989, that's correct.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		It says May of 94 inside.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, you tell me about how it happened, and then we'll discuss the witnesses that I know about.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		I will tell you precisely what happened.
		It was a May evening.
		It was warm.
		The windows were open in our bedroom.
		About 11.30 at night, I was up reading.
		Annie was asleep.
		I had just turned out the light when I noticed a figure standing in the doorway of the room, which was at the foot of the bed, about 10 feet across or 15 feet across the bedroom.
		Now, the situation is this.
		This is a new cabin, bigger.
		There is a bank of light switches beside the bed, which I can flip on and completely flood the outside of the cabin with floodlights all around the cabin.
		Underneath the bed is a loaded Benelli riot gun.
		In the bedside table is a little pistol, an AMT backup.
		A difficult pistol to use, but I do know how to use it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I'm with you all the way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'd have guns too.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, exactly.
		So I'm good with this pistol.
		I know both of my weapons, and I know how to use them.
		And I'm willing.
		So I see these two people.
		I've just turned out the light within a few minutes.
		Standing up.
		People, people, a woman, and behind her, a man.
		They are standing there.
		And now, but this time I was not afraid of the little gray guys.
		I would not have thought of, I was meditating with them and stuff.
		I would not have dreamed of coming after them with a gun.
		But this was people, and I was scared because I figured someone's coming after me, which had already happened a number of times.
		And I hear in the backyard a voice say, very quietly, condition red.
		Oh, I forgot.
		I was disturbed by the sound of gravel crunching in the driveway right before all of this happened.
		The sound of a car moving silently toward the house.
		In other words, someone who had gotten past our locked gate and fencing and everything.
		And that was not good news.
		So I was ready to turn on the lights when I saw the people.
		Then I decided, change of plan, go for the shotgun.
		The next moment, I'm lying on my side, literally, had been going for the shotgun, and I can't move, and I can't see.
		I can still hear and I can still feel.
		The woman's voice is saying something gentle and soothing.
		I don't know what it was.
		I've never been able to remember it.
		The man, apparently the man, I assume it was the man, is pressing something against the side of my head and pushing it down like into the, he's pressing against my left temple and ear and almost pushing my head down into the pillow.
		Then it ends and I leap up, grab the shotgun.
		There's all this crashing in the woods.
		There's a big flash of light.
		I turn on all the floods.
		I grab the shotgun.
		The alarm system is still armed.
		It's still red.
		It's not been disturbed.
		I run through the whole house.
		I even go up through the attic.
		I do everything.
		Down in the basement.
		Nothing.
		Every window is closed.
		Every door is locked.
		I finally go back to bed thinking there must have been some kind of bizarre, vivid nightmare or something.
		I'm always the type of person who always looks for one of these ordinary explanations, even though I don't get those much.
		Anyway, I sort of sleep, get up in the morning, tell Ann the story, start to go out and get the paper.
		I usually drive out and get the paper every morning, to a little newsstand, a couple miles away.
		So I get in the car.
		I notice immediately that the garage door is wide open, even though the alarm system is still armed.
		I disarm the system.
		I get in the car.
		The car is filled with static electricity.
		I think it is probably going to blow up on me.
		I jump out of the car again and run back into the house.
		Everything seems okay then.
		The car gets okay after a few minutes, 15 or 20 minutes.
		I call the alarm guy and I say there's something wrong with the system.
		The garage door was wide open, but the alarm was not, it didn't sound accurate.
		He comes over immediately.
		He's a friend.
		We know each other pretty well.
		He comes over and he tests the system and there's this enormously powerful magnetic field around the switch on the garage door.
		The thing is, a magnetic field has to be generated by something.
		It's not like a radio wave.
		But there's nothing there.
	There's nothing there except this little dinky magnet that's part of the switch.
	And it's like the magnet has been just supercharged somehow.
	And we can't figure it out.
	He finally shifts it out, puts in a new thing in the system.
	It's working fine.
	Not quite the end of the story.
	Here's what happens next.
	A couple days later, my ear starts hurting, and I feel my ear.
	And there's a bump in it.
unidentified		I think, where the heck did that come from?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		So I go to the doctor.
		He says he thinks it's a little cyst.
		I do not think it's a little cyst.
		I know about implants at this point.
		And I don't say anything like that to him.
		Eventually I end up with another doctor who is willing to take it out.
		And he's been on coast with me, and you, in fact, have been.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we'll get to that in a moment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've also had instances, have you not, Whitley, where your ear will suddenly turn beat red.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		It turned on at the Southwest Research Institute in San Antonio in the presence of the director of materials science, Dr. William Mallow, who saw it happen.
		He saw it.
		He rushed me into a signals acquisition laboratory.
		And they said they didn't pick up any signal from it.
		But the problem is the lab is funded more than 50% by the Central Intelligence, by the intelligence community.
		So who knows whether they picked up anything or not?
		They wouldn't necessarily be able to even tell me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, you went to the doctor and they opened a cyst, maybe.
		We'll get to that.
		They thought it was a little cyst.
		Did they do any imaging at all before they opened you?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		They did an X-ray.
		And it was shadowy on the X-ray.
		You couldn't see it.
		It didn't look like what it was at all.
		Let me put it that way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, but they knew something.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Something was there.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, now I should just rush ahead and tell the audience, look, I had Dr. Roger Lear on.
		I had the surgeon who operated on Whitley on.
		I can't recall his name.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Dr. John Lerman was his name.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, fine.
		And they both came on together and said, look, we opened up Whitley, his ear, and we went after this thing.
		And I know that I'm not exaggerating when I say the surgeon told us on air that as they approached this item, when they had you open, and he took the scalpel and went to actually cut where this thing was and remove it, and the damn thing moved.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Down to the scale.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		It moved.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Into an area where they said they didn't want to keep going because it was getting, I guess, near something very sensitive.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		No, it wasn't sensitive.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		It moved from the top of my ear all the way down into my earlobe, and the doctor said I'd have to cut your whole ear off to get it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, they didn't want to chase it with a scalpel.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		I mean, I didn't want them to either.
		I want the ear.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But that was a surgery.
		I like the ear.
		On my program who said this happened.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		It happened.
		And the tape of the operation is, again, it's on my website.
		The video of him actually doing the surgery with Ann nervously laughing in the background.
		And then he says it's a white disc, and a few seconds later, he sees it disappear.
		You can see it all happening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, he got a corner of it.
		And that went to the pathology lab.
		A couple days later, the pathologist called him up.
		Now, at this point, this is still in the down in the bottom of me right here.
		Understand, when it was put in, there was no scar whatsoever.
		There was no incision mark.
		There was nothing to do afterwards.
		It was just as smooth.
		It's like I'm feeling it right now as we're talking.
		It's still there.
		Anyway, the pathologist calls him and says, is this a practical joke?
		He says, no, it came out of a patient.
		He says, because this is not natural.
		This is a piece of technology.
		It's a piece of meta.
		It has a metallic base, and there are cilia, a proteinaceous material growing out of that base.
		And these cilia are motile.
		They were moving.
		They weren't anymore, but they had been, he thought.
		And, of course, the cilia were what may enabled it to move.
		Now, a couple days later, it had moved from the earlobe back up into the top of my ear, where it had remained to this day, because I got afraid of taking it out again, despite Roger Lear's many, many efforts to get me to take it out, try to take it out again.
		I don't want to try.
		I'm scared to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't blame you a bit.
		One time's enough.
		If you can't catch it with a scalpel, don't have the race.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Right, exactly.
		And I was just thinking, did it move for its safety, for my safety, or for both of our safeties?
		I don't know.
		And I can't find out.
		And I'm not going to attempt that again.
		so there it uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		and what what effect to this day uh...
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		what is there anything that Not often.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It turns on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you feel or what senses you?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		You hear a whang noise in the ear and the ear gets hot and turns bright red.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, hold tight, hold tight.
		Stay right there.
		So, you know, the surgeon came on and told me all about it.
		That's pretty strong evidence in my mind, along with Dr. Roger Lear.
		I mean, very, very strong evidence.
		This is just strange stuff.
		Then again, this is Dark Matter.
unidentified		What do you do when you get lonely?
		No one waiting back.
		I don't know.
		You got to be a little bit of a city.
		All our times have come We're cut down and
		gone Seasons don't feel the reaper No to the wind, the sun, or the rain We can be right there Come on baby, don't feel the reaper Baby take my hand, don't feel the reaper We'll be able to fly, don't feel the reaper Baby I'm your man Baby I'm your man
		It's a dead baby, and we are very serious to call ourselves.
		Please manipulate your communication device at 1855 wheel UFOs.
		F18557325836.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's the number.
		And I'll tell you what.
		Back in Washington, D.C., clear the lines.
		Let's take some calls.
		That'll take a few moments.
		We'll clear the lines.
		They'll begin to ring.
		And I've got a couple of things I want to touch on quickly, and then we'll begin to take calls.
		What a story.
		If this doesn't get you and grip you, I don't know what will.
		The number to call is a simple one, 855-REAL-UFO.
		That's 855-REAL-UFO, or put the other way, 1-855-732-5836.
		That's 855-732-5836.
		All right.
		Whitley, here's what I want to raise with you.
		One criticism that people would have of you is that you've made a lot of money with this story.
		Now, it's true.
		I mean, you're a writer.
		You took off.
		You wrote Communion, a giant bestseller.
		You and I wrote a book.
		In other words, you've written and written about these experiences, and you've done very well by them.
		And that always makes people suspicious.
		My answer would be, what would you expect the guy to do?
		He's a writer.
		But why don't you go ahead and tell us your take on that?
unidentified		Well, first of all, the money illusion.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Here's my take on that.
		Yes, I made a nice piece of money for communion.
		But then there followed the many years, which you are aware of, of not making any money at all because once South Park's pilot came out, my sales ended because nobody wants to buy a book by a guy who is a laughingstock.
		Nobody.
		The result is my sales dropped the first year after it came out 70%.
		Now, by looking back, I'm down on an average book, I sell about 3% of what I sold before I wrote Communion, before I even published Communion.
		Nobody bought Solving a Communion Enigma, and nobody will, because it's by Whitley Straeber.
		I'm hoping that people will be interested enough in Alien Hunter to buy it.
		It's a wonderful book.
		I'm hoping they will change their minds and buy Alien Hunter and realize that just because you're telling the truth doesn't mean you should be tuned out.
unidentified		It means you should be tuned in.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		In any case, I lost the cabin.
		I went bankrupt.
		I have spent many years past the money.
		And I'm still telling this story.
		And I won't stop because what happened to me, the way I was rejected, made me furious.
		And I'm just not going to stop.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You would me too.
unidentified		Make me furious.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, absolutely.
		I mean, you remember in the old days I would come on that show, on your show, literally desperate to do something that would make a little bit of money so that I could keep my roof over my head.
		I mean, we went from being wealthy, wealthy writer, that I write communion.
		That lasts for a few years, and the whole thing is in a shambles because I wrote communion.
		I'm the communion man.
		I'm the rectal probe man.
		I am the laughingstock.
		How ironic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That must have been very hurtful.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		It wasn't hurtful so much as infuriating because, you know, these books, Communion, Transformation, Breakthrough, The Secret School, Confirmation, Solving, Communion Enigma, they're true.
		And you'd think people would eat that up, but they run away from it.
		But you put out some UFO book that's full of lies, and it becomes a bestseller.
unidentified		Mm-hmm.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		You know, that's really...
		And then they realized, oh, no, he's telling the truth.
		We can't buy those anymore.
		But that's not quite right.
		People get fooled and by experts.
		There are people in the government, and I think outside of it, too, called social engineers who are social scientists.
		If you go on YouTube, you can find some of their work very easily.
		And look at UFO videos on YouTube.
		The better videos will have these real internet troll type of comments on them.
		And often, if you click on that individual, you'll find he's just a name.
		He's never done anything else.
		He's just sitting there.
		And he's been put there by a social engineer.
		He's not real.
		It's not a real person.
		For the purpose of creating the impression that the public thinks this is all ridiculous.
		But the public does not think that.
		The public is willing, ready, and able to listen.
		But they don't get the chance.
		Like Solving Community Neighborhood.
		You'd never see it in a bookstore because the bookstore owners believe Whitley Striever created a lyric hoax.
		He's a liar.
		He doesn't deserve to be on our shelves.
		They've been duped.
		They're the victims of social engineering.
		Victims.
		Because remember this.
		You know, the disclosure people always say, well, we're going to get disclosure.
		We're going to do this.
		Forget it.
		It is never going to happen.
		And I'll tell you why.
		I told them this.
		There's one of them out there.
		I won't say the name.
		It's not Steve Greer who tries to pretend that the abductees and the closing counter witnesses don't exist.
		I told this individual, I said, look, this is what will happen.
		This individual is trying to get a statement from NASA where they will say simply that some of the objects that are observed in the sky may be under intelligent control.
		Not even that they're aliens.
		Not anything like that.
		And I said, it's never going to happen.
		Because no matter what they say, they are exactly two steps away from the question, well, what about these people who say they are being abducted?
		And that is a question the government does not want to deal with.
		Because the answer is, we can't stop it.
		And we're not going to tell you what it is, even if we did know and we don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		The number is 855 RealUFO, and you're on the air with Woodley Striever.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		How's it going, Art Bell?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very well, thank you.
unidentified		And Area 51 to you.
unidentified		And Mr. Weaver, I've got a question.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Widley Streeber.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Look, do I really need to talk to him if you can't even pronounce my name?
unidentified		I'm sorry.
unidentified		I'm sorry.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, try it.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Say Streeber, and I'll answer.
unidentified		Striver.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		You don't want to say it.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		So what's your question?
unidentified		I'm one of these people that have never had one of these experiences, and I'm kind of curious, is there a specific type of person that has them, or can anybody have them?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's actually a reasonable question, and I stand corrected because I thought that you were going to come after me.
		And that's a very good question.
		And I have part of an answer.
		And this is what it is.
		That when you get a large group of these people together, you find out something very interesting about them.
		They're all very mild-mannered.
		The ones I've had take IQ tests are generally pretty smart.
		They're generally not all that well-educated.
		In other words, they don't have college degrees, et cetera, and so forth.
		So they're bright people, kind of in the ordinary walk of life, and they're mild people.
		They're not the kind of people you would expect to have a fight.
		I'm one of the more belligerent ones, actually.
		But in any case, that would be one thing.
		And another thing is this.
		And we noticed this when we were working with the letters.
		We'd make long lists of the names of these people.
		And there were an awful lot of Irish and Scottish type names in there.
		And we found that the groups of people who this happened most often to were people of Celtic descent, people of Native American descent, people of Jewish descent, and people of black descent.
		One time I was with a black family.
		They had five generations with a great-great-grandmother over 100 years old, all of whom had experiences.
		It was amazing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I take it.
		I'm sorry, Caller.
		I cut him off by mistake.
		Whitley, I don't think people are going to come in after you.
		Not on this program.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, I'm ready.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We've got kind of a different group.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, be ready for them.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		I will not be argumentative.
		I'll be good.
		I'll be very, very nice.
		I'll be very polite and sweet, which I am often not on the air, as you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I know, but I don't think you need to worry about these people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really, I don't know.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		I'm going to assume that they're all wonderful people, and we're going to have a lovely time.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Bring them all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I hope you're right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, you're on the air with Whitley's Dreamer.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hey.
		Whitley?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Yes, ma'am.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Or is it sir?
unidentified		It's ma'am.
		It's Emily.
		I talked to you back in 01 in Hawaii, and you had called me about some films I sent you, and I just wanted to thank you for being so personable and hospitable about it.
		You and Ann had looked at them, and I've had several encounters, and a lot of films went here, there, and everywhere.
		And you were the only one that responded.
		And I appreciate that.
		And in 2007, my son and I moved back to East Texas, and I had a face-to-face encounter with a giant Bigfoot.
		And you talked about people laughing and making fun of you.
		I know exactly what you're saying.
		It just happens to me.
		I just kind of keep it under my wraps here.
		But I just wanted to touch face with you.
		And I love you.
		I love your work.
		I understand where you've been and what you're doing as much as I possibly can.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, thank you.
		Thank you.
		And I certainly know where you're coming from with a Bigfoot experience.
		And any of these experiences, folks, I would not recommend you tell this to anyone.
		Too many bad stories about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or it is people.
		You know, think really, really hard before you do it.
		Yeah, because there's a lot coming.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Around the office or at work because people will go after you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, exactly.
		I mean, you're going to have to expect a certain amount of ridicule is the word.
		Yeah.
		And that's what it is.
		You're on the air with Whitley Scriber.
unidentified		Good evening.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Oh, hi.
		Hi.
		Neighbor Oswald Stew, sir.
		I'm actually a very, very new listener.
		I've only listened to three shows now, and I love it.
		I'm addicted.
		I drive a truck, and I don't even drive throughout the night.
		I just listen to you just to listen to you.
		And Mr. Whitley, I have to say that honestly, I've never actually found the anal probing to be humorous.
		I've always found it a serious matter.
		And I don't have any...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
unidentified		And, you know, I could never understand why people could make fun or make light of a situation such as yours.
		When I was listening to your story in the beginning, and I just goosebumps, and I've never had a UFO encounter.
		I've always Been not skeptical.
		I've always been interested in UFOs and aliens and abductions and sightings and things of that nature.
		And now that I have this resource, it's just amazing.
		I've been looking at all the websites and I've been browsing yours and I'm thinking of subscribing.
		But my question actually is, as far as the implant that is in your ear, you said that you've had two surgeries, correct?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		One, one.
unidentified		One, one.
unidentified		Okay, so one surgery, and it would move.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, like the one I told you about.
		I had the surgeon on the air.
		He said it moved, period.
unidentified		Yes, yes, sir.
unidentified		And is there, I mean, have you thought of maybe of alternative ways of possibly like freezing, I'm not saying, like before the surgery, you know, somehow immobilizing it to where it could get freezing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, actually, that's a pretty interesting question.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it is an interesting question, but I'm not so sure how interested I am in freezing my ear enough to where the thing would not move.
		But here's the bigger issue.
		What happens to me if it's taken out?
		Because I can't answer that question.
		It could be I'll be better.
unidentified		That's a good point.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		It could be I'll be worse.
		Maybe much worse.
		I don't know the answer.
		And without knowing the answer, I'd like to wait until I'm damn well finished with this life before I take another shot at it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That may be when you learn about the next chapter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who knows?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, maybe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's see.
		You're on the air with Whitley Streeber.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, it's Dark Matter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're on the air.
unidentified		Hi, this is Tim calling from Louisiana.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi there.
unidentified		Hi, I'm Art.
		Roswell's to you.
		And Mr. Streeber, fascinating story.
		The reason I'm calling in is I had something to share.
		I didn't know it, but you kept mentioning Communion throughout the program, and then it just rang a bell.
		And so I Googled it, looked it up, and Communion 1987.
		Was that when it was published?
		Is that correct?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Okay.
		My little brother, my mother, one day, I grew up in Sturgis, Michigan, and we grew up on about two acres of property with multiple cornfields around us.
		And he was six years old.
		And my other brothers and I, I've got four brothers.
		We were all at school.
		And my mom was out hanging laundry.
		And she had seen like a dark shadow or something like that, excuse me, or something.
		But we had a bunch of walnut trees and everything in our yard.
		So she just thought it was maybe clouds or something casting a shadow.
		And something told her something, you know, wasn't right.
		I don't know.
		I can't remember exactly how she described it.
		She looked to her left, and my little brother William always, always stood by her side and wanted to help with the laundry, but he was gone.
		And she couldn't find him.
		Well, she ran around like some brush that's in our yard and stuff like that, and there he was staring up at the sky.
		She went over there and told him not to run away anymore.
		Are you guys still with me?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Okay.
		And so she took him inside and nothing became of anything, you know, the rest of the day until we got home.
		And then she asked us to watch my little brother.
		And she went to the store and then she made some other errands.
		She came back home.
		And when she got back home, it was one of our favorite things was to go through the bags and see what mom got.
		And I was digging through the bags and I took this book out and it happened to be your book.
		I think this was around spring of 87.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		It had to be about when it was published, yeah.
unidentified		Yeah.
		So I took it.
		It might have been the summer.
		I took the book and I put it on the counter and I was looking at it and I go, oh, what is that?
		And I was like, oh, I've seen those on television, you know.
		That's an alien or something, you know, whatever.
		And I made a comment about it to my mom, and then we didn't think anything of it, you know, put the groceries away and stuff like that.
		And then all of a sudden, we were all, you know, kind of like walking through, and my little brother was staring at it.
		He was laughing.
		And he said, I know that man.
		And this is a true story.
		I'm 43 years old.
		I don't tell lies.
		And I've never seen any UFOs in my life.
		But come to find out, when my little brother took off from my mom's side that day, there was a craft in the air, and he said that he saw that man in that craft.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, God.
unidentified		That would be you, Whitley.
		Me?
		No, no, no, no, no.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		No, no, he means the front.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		The back.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, okay.
unidentified		Front cover.
		Anyway, I thought I would call and share that.
		I believe you.
		I totally believe you.
		I follow this stuff.
		I try to.
		I'm fascinated with it, but I've never seen anything myself.
		Maybe someday I will, but I never want to have to go to the experience that you went through.
		Anyway, Roswell's again to you guys, and thanks for taking my call.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much for this story.
unidentified		I thought he saw you.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Well, that's happened, too.
		So far.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It wouldn't surprise me as many times as you've experienced that somebody would see you in transport.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		I think that we are all involved in this.
		I don't think it's just certain people.
		I think certain people remember it or are allowed to remember it, but I think it's part of human life.
		I'm not, you know, the idea that aliens came here recently and started the Anonas, it doesn't wash with me.
		I think this is part of what we are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I think it goes back since, well, when people were writing on rocks, carving on rocks.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		From time immemorial.
		And we are part of, well, you know, we're caterpillars and they're butterflies.
		And I guess if you were a caterpillar and saw a butterfly, you might find it very disturbing looking.
		And we find these guys pretty hideous.
		But what that fellow said to Laurie Barnes, one day, my dear, you will look just like us, I think is the future of many of us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's also very disturbing from my point of view.
		You're on the air with Whitley Schreber.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello?
unidentified		Hello?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		It's me.
unidentified		It is.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, what do you know?
unidentified		Oh, Roswell's and Stonias tell you, Art, tell much we missed you in that distance.
		I was wondering if you've heard of Riley Martin.
		He does another talk show on Sirius on 101 on Tuesdays, and he's wrote a book, The Coming of Tan.
		He said he was abducted as a child.
		It had been years, and they finally gave him his memories back, and now he remembers everything.
		And, man, he's got a long story to tell.
		Have you heard of him?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		No, I have not.
unidentified		You hadn't, huh?
		No, actually.
		I have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've heard of him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've not heard the show, but another experiencer, apparently.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's great.
		I mean, he has a show and everything.
		It's a good sign.
unidentified		Maybe people start to get used to this.
		Well, we're hoping so.
		I mean, I figure they've got to be somebody else out there.
		You know, we can't be alone in this universe.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Somebody else in here, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I really, Woodley, I just don't think that people are going to, no matter how we tell it, they're just going to be too uncomfortable to accept it, particularly in the way you've laid it out with the dead.
unidentified		That part really...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I guess so.
		But the whole thing.
		It may not be quite the same thing, but it's the same track.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it is sort of the same track, except it's a very negative reference to it.
		And I'm not so sure that it is all that negative.
		I mean, I think that if you've got heavy things on your soul, you should think carefully about that.
		You know, my wife's on our website, she's been really working on, she had a near-death experience in 2004 that taught her that you need to give up the burdens of life, the hates and the angers and all those things.
		And she's written some beautiful diaries in the Anne's Diary section of unknowncountry.com about forgiveness and how to forgive yourself and others.
		And I think that's a very important part of this whole experience of being human.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll go to learn that too, Woodley, but it's easier said than done.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, it is easier.
		It's very hard to do.
		It's very hard to really do it.
		But, you know, I think if we die heavy, it's not so good.
		I think we should die as light as we can when our time comes.
		I think that's part of the message of our experience, certainly in my experience, and maybe part of what our message about the soul is about, that the soul is very real and it is why we're here and we need to live compassionate and forgiving lives.
		And that's hard to do.
		It's harder to do than it sounds.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're on the air with Whitley Striever.
unidentified		Good evening or morning, whatever.
		Hello?
		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Yeah, that's Bob.
		I was wondering, I got kind of two full questions.
		Is there any way that these little blue guys, did you summon them in or did they just happen?
		And I was wondering if maybe they're Repeat your question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Please repeat your question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The little blue guy.
unidentified		What about the little blue guys?
		Is there any way to get them to come to you or do they just show up?
		And are they related to these shadow people I've heard you talk about before?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But is it, well, is it really a good question?
unidentified		Okay.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think it is.
		We were able to get these beings, and there's two types that are in my life.
		A third type also, I will say, these tall, blonde creatures.
		But that's another story, part of my story.
		In any case, the two that are the most alien-looking are these little short, very short, dark blue creatures and the very fragile, gray-colored creatures with the big eyes.
		There's two different types.
		And they often come together.
		And in my life and in the lives of many, many other close encounter witnesses.
		Now, Anne was able to a couple of times, two or three times, to get groups of people to the cabin, and they would, the visitors showed up definitely in no questions whatsoever about it, in complex, elaborate experiences that were not hallucinations or dreams on anybody's part.
		Mostly, when they came, they just came.
		Now, I spent many years meditating.
		I meditate daily.
		I was doing that when this started.
		I was open to it.
		And I was there for it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How important is that?
		If you want this to happen, God forbid, I don't know why anybody would want this to happen.
		But if you do, is meditation one direction to go?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		I think meditation is important.
		I mean, there are people out there who will make you pay a lot of money to go out and shoot laser beams, laser pointers at the sky and stuff.
		But I think it's a much more personal and deeper experience.
		And now, I meditated for, what, 30 years, 25 years, 20 years.
		I guess I've been meditating 85, 75.
		I've been meditating for about 20 years before this happened in my life.
		And I wasn't looking for it when it did.
		I was open, though.
		And I guess they sensed that or were aware of it or saw it in some way.
		But then subsequently, when I was learning to communicate with them, meditation was absolutely essential.
		And in the last three years of our time at the cabin, I meditated nightly with a group of someones.
		I don't know what they were exactly, but they meditated.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But Lily, consider what you've said tonight.
		You got raped.
		You've had an implant put in your ear.
		You've had experiences that I don't think anybody would want to have.
		Why would anybody want this?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		And I keep going toward it.
		And Art, the answer to that question is very hard for me also.
		Why didn't I immediately sell the cabin or burn the damn thing down and never go back?
		I don't know why I am compelled to do this, except that I just need sense, and I can't get away from this, that it's about the truth and it's terribly important, and I won't quit.
		I keep hoping that at some time in the future, maybe long after I'm gone, just like Bud Hopkins used to hope, that this will come into focus in some way, and that all of the effort that I have expended and that others, so many others have expended, and that the struggles that the close encounter witnesses have had in their lives will all turn out to be worth it.
		That we will turn out to have created a foundation that the future can build on.
		That's what I'm doing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I hope you're right, little man.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		I hope I am.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I really hope you're right.
		All right, hold tight.
		We'll take a break here.
		It's hard to even understand why somebody would be compelled to continue to seek this out after everything he described.
		beyond my ability to digest.
unidentified		This is Dark Matter.
		Riders of the storm, riders of the storm, into this episode into this world we throw.
		Wow.
		White bird is a golden game on a winter's day in the rain.
		A white bird in a golden cage alone The leaves blow across the long black road To the darkened sky
		in its rage But the white bird just sits in her cage Unknown be part of Dark Matter this night, please direct your finger digits to dial 1-855-REAL UFO.
		That's 1-855-732-5836.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is the number.
		My guest is Whitley Streeber, and the story is very, very serious.
		We're going to continue to take calls.
		They're stacked like cordwood.
		And so, Whitley, if you're there, we're going to go right back to the phones.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		I'm here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here we go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're on the air with Whitley Streeber and Dark Matter.
unidentified		Good evening.
		Gentleman.
		Hello?
		Yes, can you hear me?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I hear you.
unidentified		Great.
		Whitley, this summer, I listened to an interview you did with a gentleman by the name of, I believe, David Politis.
		Yes.
		It made me go out and buy all three of his books, and you wrote, I think, the four to the third one.
		And it was a terrifying interview.
		It was very interesting material.
		And I was just wondering, since you kind of took that on and obviously seemed interested in supporting this gentleman, do you have any thoughts to maybe people who go missing are involved in some of what you've experienced?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I have thought that.
		I have thought that there are some people who maybe go into this and don't come back.
		That has concerned me a lot.
		And while David's stories don't have any...
		There's nothing in any of them that would indicate that that does happen.
		I just...
		You know, in other words, I have a feeling that there may be some people who go deeply into this.
		I know a few cases of people who have gone into it in another way, who have kind of the visitors have come deep into their lives and they kind of roll up the carpet.
		In other words, they go way back in the woods and live very simply and quietly by themselves because, you know, Arg, you've been talking about how this is so scary and so on and so forth.
		But there's another side to this, and that's that once you get past the hard stuff, if you do, which I eventually did, obviously, I wouldn't have kept doing it, it becomes like being part of a larger world.
		It's an extraordinary and beautiful experience.
		on the one hand, now, on the other hand, one of the stories that David has in one of his books took place.
		A young guy, kid, was out partying in the woods at night, and when the party was over and everybody had gone home, he was no longer there.
		He was gone, and he stayed gone.
		There's never been a trace of him found.
		That happened a couple of miles from the cabin where I used to go out in the woods all the time and meet the visitors.
		Not only that, it happened apparently on or very close to an incident where they were trying very hard to get me to come with them, and I wouldn't do it.
		So I have to say, I think it is a possibility.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and don't you think that if you had decided that you would be willing to go, you'd be gone?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		I decided, well, I'll tell you exactly what happened.
		I had made a plan with them.
		And it wasn't like sitting across a table and talking to someone.
		It happened in your head, and it felt like your imagination.
		But at the same time, then it would become real.
		And I had gotten to the point where I was used to that.
		I was handling that pretty well.
		And the plan was that they would call me.
		And I even built a bench in a certain place in the woods where I would go sit, and one of them would come sit beside me, and we would talk.
		That was the idea.
		And the call came just at dawn one February morning in the cold, in the form of a sound like a trumpet echoing across the woods and waking me up in the cabin.
		I knew what it was immediately.
		I mean, there was nothing else that was going to make that noise like that.
		And I'd never heard it before, but it was just so otherworldly.
		It was obviously something to do with them.
		So I threw on my slippers.
		I had a pair of good thick slippers and a big robe.
		And I went out into the woods.
		And to do that, you had to go over a deck and then cross a yard and then up a little rise.
		And then beyond the rise was a woods, and then beyond that, the clearing where the first experience had taken place, I was pretty sure.
		So I go up on the little rise, and I can see through the naked winter woods an object, a big dark object in that clearing.
		And I can see a couple of figures standing near it.
		And I can hear it.
		It's making a clanking noise.
		And that clanking noise is very familiar because when these things slow down, I mean, people think of flying saucer.
		Oh, I must make a, you know, very otherworldly whirring noise.
		Believe me, it's all much more down-to-earth when you're close to it than you would think.
		In any case, it was there.
		And I thought, oh, my, they are here.
		It's going to happen.
		And I started to walk down into the woods, and I stopped for a second, and I heard this voice.
		It was these blue guys again, the tough ones, going, come on, come on.
		And I thought to myself, if I walk down there and I never come back, what happens to my family, my son and my wife's lying there in the bed and what she's going through and she goes through every night when I go out and she won't talk about, but she won't stop me, but I know she lives in a kind of hell because of this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe you were supposed to be considering that, Whitley.
unidentified		Maybe.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		And I turned around and I went back to the house.
		When I put my hand on the doorknob to walk into the house, there came from above the woods three cries.
		The sounds remain, to this day, the most emotional, most beautiful, most heart-rending sounds I have ever heard, and also the most perfectly executed sounds.
		They were so perfectly timed together, and it's hard to explain this, but they were like hearing something perfect, like a voice of perfection.
		And so much so that I love classical music.
		I couldn't listen to it for nearly a year afterwards.
		It sounded like mud compared to that little second of those sounds.
		So beautiful, so filled with regret, so filled with emotion.
		And then I find out a little while later, this kid just disappeared down the road.
		And what am I to think?
		And there's other even darker stories, Art.
		Darker.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe he wanted it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you didn't.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Maybe he went to a good place, but God, who knows?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's right.
		Here comes a question on behalf of many people.
		You know, I keep getting these messages when I'm on the air, and this one represents many people.
		Please ask Whitley if he thinks there's any chance that these creatures could be demonic.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Certainly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not going to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He tells the terrible things they've done to you, but then on the other hand, you say actually good things about them at times.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		That's why we call them the grays, because it is a gray area.
		It has a dark side to it, and it has a light side to it.
		I went through the dark tunnel of this thing, through the dark labyrinth, and on the other side, I came to a level of it which was richly educational, informative, and transformative.
		And, you know, the man, the wonderful man who wrote the introduction to solving the communion enigma, Jeff Kreipel.
		Jeff is a religious scholar of the first rank and he said to me, he said, Whitley, what you need to understand about this is there is such a thing as the dangerous sacred.
		He is the chairman of religious studies at Rice University.
		And he said, you have to understand this, that it is not all sweetness and light just because there is an element of holiness about it.
		Holiness can be dark.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		But at any given moment, if contact begins, there's no way to know.
		You're walking into the unknown.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Contact, listen, if contact became general all over the earth, that would mean that it was demonic because we are not going to be able to take it.
		It's hard to take, terribly hard to take, even when you've had it in your life for years.
		The most recent time the visitors showed up in my life in this apartment was an incredibly, in where I live now in California, incredibly beautiful, devastatingly difficult experience because they are just so alive and so powerful.
		They're physically small, but, you know, it's like an elephant trying to deal with an ant in terms of the mental power of it.
		And it's just overwhelming.
		It's hard.
		The emotional, towering, emotional complexity and intensity, the breathtaking scope of the mind, it's appalling.
		And, you know, I'm telling you right now, I can take it for a few minutes.
		I know people who can take it for longer.
		But when I see these things about supposed Air Force people interviewing the aliens and stuff, I think to myself, come on, what B S is this?
		These people have no idea what this is really about.
		They're smoking.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, here we go again.
		We've got so many people waiting.
		You're on the air with Whitley Streeter.
unidentified		Hi.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Hello?
unidentified		Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Welcome back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		Whitley.
unidentified		Hello?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Yes, we're here.
unidentified		Blue Doctors.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What's that?
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		What were they?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Why do you call them doctors?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		I'm curious.
unidentified		Um, the book.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Were they doctors or?
		Well, some people referred to them.
		They referred to themselves in some cases as doctors.
		And I thought of them as sort of soul doctors or something.
unidentified		Yeah.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		The little doctors.
		They used to call themselves that.
		So maybe that's what they are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you obviously mentioned that somewhere, Woodley.
unidentified		He did pull that.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Somewhere along the line.
unidentified		Remember that it was Walken that played you in the movie.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Christopher Walken did, yeah.
		He played somebody in the movie.
		It wasn't me, but in any case, that's another story entirely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you get, by the way, did you get to consult on that?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		I wrote a script.
		They basically threw it over their shoulders and made a movie.
		There are a couple of scenes in it that I actually are.
		Yeah, I wasn't.
		I thought the movie had some good points, but they messed up the special effects, in my opinion.
		I don't think the effects were very good.
		And Christopher Watkins' over-the-top performance was meant to mock me, and I knew that.
		And I found that very annoying.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're on the air with Whitley Strieber.
unidentified		Good evening.
		How are you?
		Fine.
		My question is, because I've heard lots of interviews, and how does he know he hasn't been programmed or being programmed by that implant?
		Because one of the things that Whitley said was, don't go into the light, go into the dark.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I think that was John Lear, actually.
unidentified		Yeah, but he said Whitley told him that.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		No, I didn't tell him.
		That's right.
		Well, I did not tell him that.
		I didn't tell him anything like that.
		But it does sound like something I might have said simply because I went into the dark, and I found it very interesting, actually, after a while.
		Scary, but interesting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I remember John Lear saying that, and I think he was quoting you.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		He might have been, and I can well imagine myself saying it.
unidentified		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it's bothered me ever since.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Why?
unidentified		I went into the woods.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you mean, why?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		If you weren't talking about going into hell or something, I was talking about going into the woods at night.
unidentified		Well, it's a little bit more innocent, don't you think?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I was putting another spin on it.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, I know that, but there is no other spin.
		As far as I was concerned, that was how I was answering that question.
		I don't remember specifically talking to John Lear about it, but I did often and have often said that I would recommend going into the dark if you want to find out what the truth is, because the truth is in the dark.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, thank goodness.
		That has haunted me, literally, ever since it was said to me.
		In fact, the way it was said to me was, Art, don't go to the light.
		Go to the darkness.
		The light is a trick.
		I thought that.
		Do you understand why it bothered me?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		I can well believe that that would be said, and it sounds like something that might occur to me to say, and that I may have said, because I think it might be true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, and now it's bothering me again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're on the air with Whitley Streeber.
unidentified		Hello.
		Megha Roswell-Varton.
		Good evening, Whitley.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Good evening.
unidentified		Yeah, I had a quick story kind of question.
		Every Wednesday after I dropped my son off of school, I'll take a ride up in the mountains to this restaurant on my bike.
		It's about a half-hour ride.
		And two Wednesdays ago, I dropped him off at 8.
		It's about a 30-minute ride up to this restaurant.
		I get there, I sit down and order my, I always get breakfast there and order my usual.
		And then the lady says, well, we're not serving breakfast anymore.
		I said, well, what do you mean?
		You guys stop serving breakfast?
		And she said, no, we still serve it, but we stop at 10.30.
		And I said, well, it can't be like more than 9 or 8.30.
		And I pull out my cell phone, and my cell phone says it's a little after 11.30.
		And I totally kind of like thinking, did I drop my son off late at school?
		And I was like, nah, because I remember all the cars there.
		It was 8 o'clock.
		And went outside and was kind of scratching my head, getting ready to head back down to make sure I didn't drop my son off late.
		And I had this burning sensation on the back of my neck.
		And when I got back home, I got in the mirror and looked in it.
		And it looked like a little burn.
		Now, a few weeks later, it's kind of healed, but it feels like there's like a BB or something inside there.
		And somewhere, it appears that I've lost three hours.
		I ended up picking my son up at school and asking him.
		He's like, no, you dropped me off the time.
		I was there all day.
		And I wonder if you heard anything about time loss and then having an implant.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, missing time is very common.
		Bob Hopkins wrote a book called Missing Time about that very experience of missing time.
		And I had that experience, but it's a very unusual context.
		I was in France with my family.
		And we had rented an apartment.
		We were there for a few days and about a week.
		And we were, I got very sick all of a sudden in the middle of the night one night.
		And, you know, they all woke up and they decided they would go out touring.
		I mean, you know, because I certainly didn't want to keep them from going out and seeing Paris.
		And they went out.
		And no sooner had they left, 10 or 15 minutes later, there comes a knock at the door.
		And I'm way back in one of the bedrooms.
		And I'm thinking, you know, why don't they just use the key instead of making me get up when I feel like this?
		I walk in, I go to the door, and there's two men there.
		And they're nice-looking guys.
		I mean, perfectly, and they're French.
		And they very politely ask to come in because they would like to talk to me about my experiences.
		And I think to myself, how could a couple of fans find me here?
		Because, you know, I'm not even in a hotel.
		And I said, well, could you identify yourselves?
		And one of the men said, yes, we're with the French government and we have some interest in this.
		And I know they did, because I had talked to a very prominent Frenchman about 20 years before who had known a great deal about this.
		And so I let him in.
		And the man says, we are able to induce the experience that you call missing time.
		And we would like to interview you when you're in that state.
		And I said, well, okay.
		I'm game.
		I was, of course, I was absolutely fascinated.
		I said, but I want to hear the tape of the interview if I don't remember it.
		And the man says, well, we can certainly let you do that.
		But you won't remember even that for a few minutes.
		And I said, well, then I want a copy of the tape.
		He said, no, that we can't give you.
		And I said, I thought about it for a second.
		I said, well, okay, we'll do it.
		And he says, would you like to listen to the tape now?
		And I said, well, we haven't made the tape.
		Half an hour had passed.
		And he said to me, it's done with sound.
		And I listened to the tape.
		And I remember now being extremely happy about what I heard.
		I do not remember what I said on the tape.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, quick question for you.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		That's missing time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, missing time.
		On behalf of this last caller, he also said something at the back of his neck.
		There was something.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		That sounds like an implant.
		And it does.
		You know, if it's bothering him and if he's still got it in there and it's irritating him, go to the doctor and say to the doctor, I've got something in my neck.
unidentified		Fix it.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		You know?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so you recommend that he go to a doctor.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
		All right.
		Roger.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold tight.
		We're really burning time here, so stay right where you are, and we'll be right back.
		is Dark Matter, 855-REAL-UFO.
unidentified		Dark
		Matter, 855-REAL-UFO Dark
		Matter, 855-REAL-UFO Dark
		Matter, 855-REAL-UFO It's night, my body's weak I'm on the run, no time to sleep I've got to ride, ride like the wind To be free again Want to take a ride?
		To initiate a dialogue sequence with Arc Bell, please call 1-855-REALUFO.
		That's 1-855-732-5836.
		Whitley, welcome back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Satellite radio is wonderful.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We have, I don't know if you've noticed, but by comparison, we have all this time to Actually, talk about what matters.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's very cool.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		You sound much more relaxed, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I am.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, relaxed, thoughtful.
		It's very good.
		It's a really, and I must tell you, I have really been enjoying the show tremendously.
		It is, I so enjoyed your first show with Dick, and I enjoyed your show with Stephen Grin.
		The other shows have all been very enjoyable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, as I said, you can just sort of relax and get into the content and almost get lost, just about lost in it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're on the air with Whitley Scriber.
unidentified		Hi.
		Eric, I just wanted to tell you, Megha Roswells, and I wanted to tell Whitley that I've enjoyed his books.
		I've read almost all of them, and I find them to be riveting and so informative.
		And the work that he's done has helped everybody by letting them know what's going on.
		And I was unaware that things had kind of gone downhill, but I pray that they are getting better.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, they are.
		I mean, there's always ups and downs in this life.
		And thank you very much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I remember the low point, as you well know, people think you've just had a sweet, easy ride.
		No way.
		No way.
		A lot of things we can't talk about here.
		Hi, you're on the air with Whitley Scriber.
unidentified		Hello?
		Yes.
		Yes.
		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Yes, how are you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fine.
unidentified		Great.
		Hey, listen, I was listening to you the other day, and you were telling me that you're from, well, you spent some time in Alaska.
		And it is, man, great.
		Because I saw this movie, The Fourth Kind, and that really kind of, it was a really disturbing movie, but it made me kind of believe a lot.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		The Fourth Kind.
		It's called a Foo Documentary.
		In other words, it's a false documentary.
		It didn't really happen.
unidentified		Oh, okay.
unidentified		That's what I wanted to know.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		It could have happened.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		I mean, he was, Oatundi was, And, you know, it's credible in the sense that it's something that certainly could have happened.
unidentified		Oh, okay.
		Yeah, because it didn't happen to.
		I'm sorry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, it's getting a little confusing these days.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're mixing what we call reality TV in with actual documentaries and pseudo-documentaries and what's real and what's not real.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's getting a little hard to discern.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		And I would have, I wasn't too in favor of it, of putting the way he went about it.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		But, you know, I guess when, what was it, Blair Witch Product and then Paranormal Activity came out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Everyone wants to make movies that feel like the real thing, but actually are fiction.
		And they wanted to.
		Now the fad is passed, so perhaps you won't see so much of that anymore.
		Maybe that's a good thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But is there anything, and we've got very little time, but I want to ask if there's anything you wanted to get in tonight that you didn't, or anything you want to add, or websites you want to plug or books?
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I want to plug my website, unknowncountry.com.
		It's among the coolest websites in the world.
		It has filled with all kinds of marvelously well-done stories about all manner of edge subjects, and it's very credible.
		It was created by Ann Striever, and she and Carrie Beeson are now the two news people.
		I'm on it a lot.
		My radio program, Dreamland, is on it.
		Your radio program originally.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		More yours now.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and well, I thought it was a wonderful program, and I loved it.
		I loved what you guys did.
		And we still use the same theme song, theme music that Ramona picked so many years ago.
		Now, this weekend we have Peter Levenda, who is a fascinating man, an adventurer.
		He's just back from the Far East, bringing with him some of the most remarkable and unexpected stories about Adolf Hitler that you will ever hear.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I've heard about this man.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've heard about him, and I guess he's got a whale of a bunch of stories to tell.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Well, he's written, he's incredibly brilliant and well-educated in things like the, he has deep knowledge of the occult and not as a participant.
		He's not a pro-occult person at all.
		He wrote a book called Sinister, a series of four books called Sinister Forces that are about the occult influence on America, the American government, and the Nazi-U.S.
		government connection, which runs very, very deep, and which I was exposed to as a child.
		And you'll find that story in the Communion Enigma book, Solving the Communion Enigma.
		The last thing I would want to say is this.
		I am a writer.
		Read my books.
		Read Solving the Communion Enigma.
		Read The Alien Hunter.
		You cannot but be better for having done so, and they are really good reads.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, Widley, I want to thank you for being here tonight.
		Obviously, of course, we'll have you back again sometime.
		It's been a real pleasure, and you really, really opened up.
		So what can I say?
		Thank you.
whitley strieber ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, my friend.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night.
unidentified		Good night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There you have it.
		That's Whitley's fever.
		Quite a story, huh?
		Absolutely amazing.
		That'll do it for this night and dark matter.
		Thank you all very much, and see you tomorrow night.
unidentified		Midnight in the desert I'm a lesson Ooh, I'm a lesson to you I'm a
		lesson to you I'm a
		lesson to you Midnight in the desert, and there's wisdom in the air.
		I've been looking for the answer.
		All my life I found you there as the world we live in for them.
		Are we heating all the time?
		Have we lost our intuition?
		Are we running out of time?

▲