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June 26, 2009 - Art Bell

02:33:11

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Psi Research - Dean Radin

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	A Southeast Asian capital city of the Philippine Islands, Manila.
	I bid you good evening, good morning, good afternoon, whatever the case may be, wherever you are.
	Hey there!
	I'm Art Bell, filling in pretty sure for George Norrie this evening, this Friday night, Saturday morning.
	How are you all?
	I'm okay, but I've got a cold.
	I seem to be, so you're going to suffer along with me tonight, I seem to be sampling all of Southeast Asian viruses that I can.
	And speaking of viruses, we do have the AH1N1 virus over here now, about 600 infected in the Philippines.
	It was inevitable because Well, the Philippines has a lot of overseas workers, and they come and go.
	And as they come and go, they bring with them whatever's in the rest of the world.
	And of course, that's that virus.
	So it is here.
	It is in the Manila area now.
	But before I go on, you know, I've got something I want to say about this AH1N1 thing.
	And it is, something ain't right.
	Something is really wrong with this virus.
	Now, what do I mean by that?
	This virus was in Mexico originally, where it killed a disproportionate number of the people who caught it, right?
	And understandably, because of that, it was big news.
	But, as it spread in Mexico, and subsequently to most of the rest of the world, it seemed to be, and seems now to be, Not any worse than any other flu virus.
	Right?
	But it's not being treated that way by the media.
	It's being treated as though... When I watch the coverage here in Manila, and for that matter on CNN and, you know, the rest of the media, It's disproportionate to what's going on with the flu virus.
	Now, that sets off alarm bells in my head and tells me something's going on here that we don't understand.
	I could certainly be wrong and it may be that there are legitimate worries to have about this virus mutating or changing or something.
	But right now the coverage is way disproportionate to the problem being created.
	So, just sort of a little, I don't think they're telling us everything kind of comment for you.
	I've got so much for you tonight, and I do have an update, by the way, on the immigration situation that I railed about last time I was on the air.
	Oh, I don't know, just go ahead and give that to you.
	It is solved.
	Thank you.
	You know, I need to thank a lot of people.
	I need to thank Congressman Dean Heller, and also Moses Andrus from his office.
	Thank you, Moses.
	Gary Hollis, who made many, many calls on my behalf.
	Thank you, on my wife's behalf.
	Thank you very much, Gary.
	Karen Jackson, owner now of KNYE Radio in Pahrump, who copied endless documents and re-sent what we had already sent.
	And I guess I want to comment that we really need immigration reform.
	And I think 60 Minutes, interestingly enough, in the same week that I railed away, had some comments about it as well.
	It's time to change the immigration world.
	Nobody wants a lot of people pouring across the border who don't belong across the border.
	But those who are legitimately applying and legitimately able to bring family or whatever, that process really, just really needs reform.
	So, hopefully that will get done.
	At any rate, that problem solved.
	I've got more to talk to you about, including of course, you have to comment on Michael Jackson.
	There is some late news and it kind of makes sense.
	So, in a moment, back with that.
	Oh, by the way, before I go any further, left to right, there's a picture, pretty cool new picture, I think, of the girls, left to right.
	If you go to the website, it says Arts Webcam, just click on that.
	And, uh, when you do, it'll take you to a different page, and you can click on that, and it gets bigger!
	Becomes bigger.
	So, go ahead and, uh, take a look.
	Left to right, that would be the now little more than two-year-old Miss Asia Rainbell.
	And, of course, my beautiful wife, Erin, in the middle.
	And on the right is Anna Lynn, our ya-ya, and kind of new member of the family, if you will.
	So, left to right, those are the girls.
	And people ask, why don't I put up my picture?
	I will one of these days, but I have looked at my picture, and I would much rather look at their picture.
	That's taken in a very beautiful area adjacent to us, which is called Surendra, kind of near an area called Market Market, and that's where we do most of our shopping.
	It's just a gorgeous area full of beautiful, beautiful restaurants and just a very, very nice area.
	So that's the photograph tonight.
	I think it's a pretty good one.
	You might want to take a look.
	That's all the way over here on the other side of the world.
	It's kind of worth a look-see.
	Michael Jackson.
	You know, it was as big a shock here in the Philippines as I'm sure it was in the rest of the world.
	And as you know, Michael Jackson did a very large concert here at Rancho Coliseum here in Manila.
	And so he is loved here.
	And his death came as a terrible shock.
	Dead at 50 years old too early.
	There's something I can tell you now about Michael Jackson that I didn't mention before because I thought he deserved his privacy.
	Michael Jackson, until recently, lived in Pahrump, Nevada.
	kind of down the street from us a little bit and I never really mentioned it because well as I said he deserves his deserved his privacy and so I never never mentioned that but I guess it's okay now that he's gone he did live in Pahrump believe it or not it was it actually did make a few publications were aware that he was out there but but again I I kind of wanted to protect his privacy Dead at 50 years old too early, and it is interesting the way the world has reacted to his passing.
	It's reminiscent, of course, of the passing of Elvis Presley, isn't it?
	In a lot of ways.
	The King.
	The King is gone again.
	We know a little more today than we did yesterday.
	Apparently, Michael Jackson was working out, getting ready for these, I think he had about 50 concert appearances.
	You know, the big last curtain call kind of deal.
	So he was working out with the Incredible Hulk.
	Incredible Hulk!
	And they think, they don't know yet, they think that his heart simply gave out.
	Now as you know he was a dancing fool and I guess what he was trying to do was to get himself in shape to give the kind of performance that he gave when he was much younger and his heart just couldn't take it.
	At least that's the thinking right now.
	It was going to be a late career comeback And now it's not going to happen.
	I know he's a very controversial person.
	So many in the media spotlight are controversial people.
	Heaven knows I've generated my share of it, haven't I?
	All right, in other news, I'm so sorry to see Michael Jackson gone, but I guess, you know, in a way, he went doing what he wanted to do, and there probably are worse ways to go.
	And only one better that I can think of.
	A judge has ordered Madoff, the guy who made off with your money, to forfeit over $170 billion!
	$170 billion!
	Billion dollars?
	Wow!
	$170 billion bucks.
	I thought this was a $50 billion scam.
	And so, he wants $170 billion.
	My goodness.
	So that'll be the end of all property including real estate, investments, cars and boats and such.
	Diamond rings, what have you.
	In a triumph for the President, The Democrat-controlled House narrowly has passed sweeping legislation Friday that called for the nation's first limits on pollution linked to global warming, aims to usher in a new era of cleaner yet more costly energy.
	Of course it'll cost, everything costs.
	Vote!
	219-212 capped months of negotiations and it's going to be painful but I really do think we need to do it.
	President Obama's criticism of Iran escalated Friday into an unusual personal war of words with the President of Iran.
	As you know, the President of Iran wanted an apology from Obama.
	Not coming.
	Good.
	Obama said that they really ought to think about answering in some way the people who had violence perpetrated upon them.
	Those who died in the riots.
	So good.
	A stymied by Congress, so far anyway, the White House is considering issuing an executive order to indefinitely imprison a small number of Guantanamo Bay detainees considered simply too dangerous to prosecute or perhaps release.
	Two administration officials said Friday, no final decisions may have been made just yet, but it looks like he's going to make one and he's going to do something about it.
	Iranian authorities, turning back to that, have barred journalists.
	They're not allowed to do anything at all in Iran, but still the video gets out and annoys the hell out of the Iranian government.
	Thousands of Californians may end up next week with an IOU instead of the payment that they probably need to pay their bills.
	California is in a disproportionately large amount of trouble compared to the rest of the nation.
	And it could result in state workers going to work and picking up IOUs.
	By the way, we had a tropical storm.
	Which came roaring through earlier this week, worried me a little bit.
	I thought, perhaps I will not get on the air.
	We had a brownout here, lost the internet, all that kind of thing.
	And we had a really wicked storm.
	Oh, actually, I say wicked, but I'm a storm fan.
	And we had a tornado.
	And I knew we had a tornado.
	We all rushed to the window up here on the 19th floor.
	Looked out the window and oh my god, here was this roll cloud and you could see tornadoes, actually several of them, forming in the sky.
	And I said, girls, that's going to be a tornado.
	And sure enough, though we didn't see the one that ultimately hit the ground in Kuzan Province, it did and killed four people, I believe.
	Really a shame.
	Really awful.
	I used to be a storm chaser, as you know, so I knew darn well what I was seeing.
	And it's kind of odd.
	You would not expect that in the tropics you would have tornadoes, but you certainly do.
	And that was one of them.
	It's exciting in a strange, kind of weird, sort of perverted way, but to look up in the sky and see these quick-moving roll clouds and then to see the formation of these tornadoes is just, from a weather point of view, very exciting and interesting.
	Today, a birthday!
	Oh, by the way, I had my birthday, June 17th.
	I am now 64 years old.
	64 years old, my God.
	I never thought I would make it.
	You know, when you're 25, 30 years old, you say to yourself, if I ever get to be that age, shoot me.
	Well, let me clue you in.
	It happens.
	You get here.
	And here I am.
	But my birthday aside, back on the 17th, today, this is exciting, today marks the 35th anniversary, the birthday if you will, of the first time a laser scanner read a barcode.
	It is the birthday, ladies and gentlemen, of barcodes.
	Doesn't get any more exciting than that.
	Well, according to Motorola, anyway.
	The company has detailed a few of the pertinent facts from the day, including that the first scan occurred at 8.06 a.m.
	June 26, 1974 at the Marsh Supermarket in Troy, Ohio.
	The barcode made its birthday imprint on ten packs of Wrigley's Juicy Fruit gum.
	And now look at the world.
	A licensed pilot and his wife took off, took a cue rather, from the crowd and looked up as they waited for a Las Vegas show to begin April 21st and observed what appeared to be a triangular shaped UFO or an object in a V formation according to witness testimony from The Mutual UFO Network.
	Move on.
	Reports that Tuesday night, April 21st, 2009...
	This man says my wife and I were standing outside the Treasure Island Resort in Las Vegas, Nevada.
	We planned to view and record the 10 p.m.
	Sirens of Treasure Islands show, and we were one of the first people to arrive.
	Sometime around 9, 15 or so, moved into a position directly in front of the hotel.
	Not much to do during the 45-minute wait for the show, so My wife began talking to people next to us, and I was observing the low-flying commercial and private aircraft that were departing McCarran International Airport and flying almost directly overhead east to west.
	As more people gathered, sometime between 9.45 and 9.55, I happened to notice that a group of people a short distance away from us, maybe 30 to 40 feet, looking up toward the sky and pointing My immediate thought was they're looking at aircraft just the way I was, flying overhead.
	But I looked up.
	Didn't see anything out of the ordinary at first.
	Looked twice, trying to guess the general direction based on where the people were pointing.
	Still, nothing obvious to be seen.
	No aircraft or helicopters of any kind.
	While I was distracted by looking for whatever the distraction was in the air, the crew for the siren show had raised a sheet or screen on the deck of the siren ship.
	I asked my wife, when they put that up, she said they just raised it.
	I glanced at my watch.
	It was almost 10.
	Started my video camera, aimed it toward the show.
	I'm kind of compacting this a little bit.
	Once again, I looked up and took a couple of moments to allow my eyes to adjust.
	There were no aircraft overhead, so I assumed it must be something much more faint and harder to see than a Boeing 737 at 1,200 feet or so.
	That's when I saw it.
	The object almost directly overhead, but I guess that I was looking northward and upwards at an angle of about 80 degrees.
	What I saw was a triangular formation of light, an open V-shape, perhaps three times wider than tall.
	The leading point of the V Directed several points west of due north.
	Assuming the Las Vegas Strip runs north and south, which it does roughly.
	I'd say the formation was pointed and moving on an approximate 340 to 45 degree heading.
	In the one to two seconds that I first observed the object, I concluded it was not a commercial airliner, nor was it a formation of individual aircraft.
	It appeared to me to be a single object flying at an altitude much greater than that of the departing aircraft from nearby McCarran.
	I made a comment out loud to my wife, attempted to frame the object with my video camera, had the camera zoomed in in preparation for the show, and was unable to capture the object on video.
	Now, this is a private pilot we're talking about, an amateur videographer, a professional graphic artist.
	He knows what he's looking at and what he saw, and what he saw is exactly What Ramona and I saw years ago now, it flies in the Nevada area.
	I have no idea what it is, but one thing I can tell you with certainty, it is not a terrestrial aircraft of a design that we are in any way familiar with whatsoever.
	It defies gravity.
	It does not fly so much as it floats.
	It does not fly at a speed that would sustain an aircraft.
	You know, you've got to have air moving over a wing in a way that holds an aircraft into the air.
	That needs a certain speed, otherwise you stall and fall.
	Well, that's not what I saw, and that's not what this man saw.
	I cannot tell you it was from elsewhere.
	But I can tell you it defied gravity.
	So, there you have it.
	When I read this, a little tingly feeling went down my spine because I know exactly what this man saw.
	I know exactly what he saw.
	And I know the feeling that is engendered when you see something that obviously If it was made here, it was made from technology that came from elsewhere.
	I guess that'd be a good way to put it, huh?
	Alright, we're gonna take a break.
	When we come back, we'll continue.
	We'll do Open Lines.
	Unscreened Open Lines from...
	Here I am indeed.
	Good morning or afternoon or evening, whatever.
	All around the world, everybody.
	That was kind of interesting as we took that break.
	You may have noticed the last word I said was from.
	And one might conclude I was cut off or something.
	Well, I wasn't.
	That was me.
	I spent many, many, many, many years in rock and roll and I was taught Never to run into a vocal.
	I mean, it happens every now and then, but there's something in my brain that won't allow me to run into a vocal, and even though I was watching the clock, I knew what I was saying.
	I meant to say, from Manila, this is Art Bell and Costa Cosmium, or something, you know, like that.
	But as soon as I said, from, something in my brain clicked, and I knew that in a split second, a part of a second, there was going to be a vocal, and I couldn't step on it, so I just stopped.
	That's a lot of years of rock and roll radio, folks.
	Hey, somebody sent me this and I thought I'd pass it along.
	Sounds like fun.
	My wife and I have been on several cruises.
	Cruises are fun because you can, you know, go from here to there and you never have to pack and unpack as you do when you get on an airplane and bop around.
	But this is a little unusual and I thought it might be fun.
	A Somali cruise package.
	That's right, a Somali cruise package.
	It departs from the Sudan.
	It docks in Tanzania.
	The cost is, yes, a bit high.
	800 bucks a day per person, double occupancy, but, uh, well, it's intriguing.
	Enticing is that the cruise company is encouraging people to bring their own high-powered weapons!
	That's right, along on the cruise.
	And, if you don't have weapons, you can rent them right there on the boat.
	They claim to have a master gunsmith, in fact, on board, and will have reloading parties every afternoon.
	The cruise lasts 48 days and nights, and costs a maximum of $3,200 per person double occupancy, four days.
	All the boat does is sail up and down the coast of Somalia, waiting to get hijacked by pirates!
	And then it goes on to list some of the costs and claims associated with the package.
	You can get an M16 full auto rental for $25 a day.
	Pretty cheap, actually.
	Ammo, 100 rounds, $5.56.
	Armor piercing is extra.
	An AK-47, no problem, no charge.
	In fact, there are everywhere.
	Crew members can double as spotters, and then they give a price for that.
	RPGs, $75, $200 for three standard loads.
	Everybody gets complimentary night vision equipment and coffee and snacks on the top deck from 7 p.m.
	to 6 a.m.
	The cabins, of course, offer a minibar.
	they advertise group rates corporate discounts
	claim it's fun for the whole family
	and they also ask about our senior citizens discount rates they even offer
	partial money back a money back guarantee that's right if not satisfied here's
	some text from the ad
	we guarantee you will experience at least two hijacking attempts by pirates
	or we will refund half your money back including gun rental
	charges and any unused ammo
	Many gun charges not included.
	How can we guarantee you will experience a hijacking?
	We operate at five knots within 12 miles of the coast of Somalia.
	If an attempted hijacking does not occur, we'll turn the boat around and cruise by at four knots.
	We will repeat this for up to eight days, making three passes a day along the entire length of Somalia.
	At night, the boat is fully lit and bottle rockets are shot off at intervals and loud disco music beams shore side to attract attention.
	Cabin space is very limited, so respond quickly.
	Reserve your package before May 29th.
	Get 100 rounds of free tracer ammo in the caliber of your choice.
	I love that.
	If it doesn't work, they go by at just four knots.
	We'll be right back.
	Coming up at the top of the hour is Dean Radin.
	It is the most interesting topic that I've discussed on the radio.
	It's about consciousness.
	And as you know, we did a sort of, well, I don't know, a few pretty wild and successful experiments with consciousness here on the air.
	You know, producing rain, that kind of thing.
	It was frightening to me, in a way, that it worked so incredibly well.
	It did work well.
	And I've pretty much refrained from dipping my fingers into that one ever since, but the whole subject of consciousness, I think I once said, I have this feeling that consciousness, when fully researched, intention, Whether mass or singular may turn out to be the most powerful force in the universe, more powerful than the splitting of the atom.
	And I stand by that.
	It's a fascinating, God, it is a fascinating topic.
	So, Dean Radin, at the top of the hour, and we'll find, it's been some time, we'll find out what is new in the area of the study of consciousness.
	Prepare thyself for that.
	In the meantime, we're going to do unscreened, open lines.
	Anything you want to talk about is fair game.
	Let us begin.
	First time caller line, you are on the air.
	Good morning.
	Hiya, this is Bob out in Pahrump.
	Bob in Pahrump.
	Hey, that's a lucky shot.
	How you doing, Bob?
	I'm doing good out here.
	How you doing?
	Great.
	Well, I just wanted to... I heard you talking about stuff in the sky, and we've been out here about three and a half years, and my wife and I like to go out in our backyard here.
	We're out on the west side where it's kind of dark.
	We watch for satellites and stuff going by in the sky at night.
	And one night we were sitting out there watching, and we saw one going from south to north.
	Typical polar satellite.
	And a second later, my wife said, oh look, there's a second one.
	It was one about a couple degrees over and to the right, trailing a little bit behind it.
	We watched them going across the sky, and after a few moments, the one just stopped dead.
	The trailing light stopped dead.
	Did not move again.
	Yeah, they don't do that.
	Yeah, we were flabbergasted.
	About 10 minutes later, there was one going from north to south, that we watched slowly make about a 45-degree turn, and continue on going to the southwest.
	And it just was one of those things that just, you don't see, and it's not a plane, and satellites don't do that.
	Oh, that's exactly right.
	Alright, well thank you very much.
	Congratulations on the signing.
	I really don't know what to say except that, what I always say, welcome to the club.
	They're up there.
	What they are?
	I don't know.
	Until I can put my hand on it and see it, well I did see it, but until I can put my hand on it, I don't know and I wouldn't try to exclaim something that is only a theory.
	You know, that they're from some other system?
	Not from Earth.
	I can't say that.
	But what I can say is, we've never made anything like what I saw.
	We've never even hinted that we can make anything like what I saw.
	Somebody sent me an email the other day that contained, I think, a half dozen of the most frequently misidentified objects in the sky.
	You know, test aircraft of various sorts.
	And what I saw has no relationship to any of those.
	Nor, by the way, to the reported C-130 aircraft the Air Force claimed that it was.
	God, what an insult that was.
	A C-130, that's what they said it was, on a secret mission over Pahrump.
	Ha!
	We've got skies in Pahrump that you just would not believe.
	With the lack of humidity, here by the way in Manila, aside from that Particulate matter generated by the city, which is quite substantial.
	There's so much humidity hovering just below 100% all the time that you're not going to see much.
	In fact, you're lucky to see a half dozen stars at night.
	But when you go into the desert, the great American southwest, There is so little humidity, it is so startlingly clear that you can see the Milky Way from one horizon all the way across to the other horizon.
	So when there's something in the sky, you don't miss it.
	Wow, Carline, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Good morning, Art Bell, your port operator here from your 50,000-watt affiliate station in Raleigh, North Carolina.
	Wow!
	Welcome!
	I hope this is okay, but I just wanted to say that I really miss hearing you, and it's great to hear you on the air again.
	And I found it really strange how we lost people in threes this week.
	We did.
	In fact, it was one of the predictions at the beginning of the year when we do those predictions.
	Somebody said we would quickly lose three.
	And they do come in threes, don't they?
	It was crazy.
	I didn't think it would happen.
	Uh, well it does.
	And I don't know why.
	It's just one of those... It's... I guess it doesn't suffice to say it's one of those things.
	I just have no idea why it happens.
	It's sad.
	Um, it is sad, however, I guess the best thing I could say about Michael is that he went doing what he loves to do.
	He was trying to be the Michael Jackson of old and there was so much video showing the incredible dancing that guy did that I guess I'm not surprised now that I think about it and I had not thought about it.
	If he was trying to be the Michael of old, His heart wouldn't take that.
	Well, hopefully he was happy.
	Hopefully he was happy.
	And the reports are that he was.
	Thank you very, very much, Jan.
	The reports are that he was very upbeat, that he was looking forward to his comeback.
	And I can understand that.
	The excitement, the adrenaline was all running again.
	And so in a sense, he did pass doing what he loves to do.
	It was amazing.
	He was actually working out with the incredible Hulk.
	That is amazing to me.
	Let's see.
	Let us go, I think, to the international line and say good morning.
	You're on the air.
	Hello.
	You're on the air, sir.
	Oh, how are you doing, Mr. Bell?
	I've been meaning to get in touch with George Noy.
	He's a hard person to get in contact with.
	I'm doing fine.
	Where are you calling from?
	I'm calling from Massachusetts.
	Massachusetts.
	Well, I guess I know England.
	We got plenty of those out here, too, you know.
	I'm not the only one out of the plenty.
	You'll probably believe me.
	I don't know.
	I make enough of myself.
	How are you doing out where you are?
	Um, yeah, I hear the accent.
	I'm doing fine.
	What's up?
	The accent is unavoidable.
	My name is K. Cal Calee.
	I've been trying to call and talk to Commander Noe for about 10 years.
	Commander Noe?
	I don't know why he doesn't respond.
	I don't even know why he hasn't called for me.
	He doesn't answer?
	Yeah, but I don't want to talk to me or something.
	I'm giving them information.
	I offered them a UFO free of charge.
	I've got one right here.
	I'll give it to you if you want it.
	I'll mail it out to you.
	A UFO free of charge?
	Yes, a teleportation UFO.
	Just going to mail it out in the normal mail service?
	Yes, I'll send it by FedEx.
	Where are you?
	No, send it to George.
	You don't want it.
	No, no, no, George, listen.
	You've got that wrong.
	You said you were unable to talk to him, so you can't really say that with conviction.
	No, by all means, send it to George in care of the network.
	And I would think, if you've really got it, that by this time I identified.
	Gee, I just can't imagine why George wouldn't have answered the phone.
	Let's try east of the Rockies, perhaps?
	Or do I have these... No, this is west of the Rockies.
	You're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Yes, good morning, sir.
	My name is Gabriel.
	I'm calling from California, and I'd just like to raise awareness or some type of consciousness about these ghost cars or ghost vehicles.
	These are typically cars... Wait, wait, wait.
	Ghost vehicles?
	Yes, sir.
	This may be something they were talking about on a prior show that I wasn't part of.
	I don't recall having talked about ghost cars.
	Oh, I do apologize.
	I thought this was Wild Car Line.
	No, it's West of the Rockies.
	Oh, I'm sorry.
	What's the topic at hand?
	Um, well, let's see.
	I was just talking to somebody about a UFO that was going to be mailed by courtesy of the U.S.
	Postal Service to Georgia.
	So nothing particularly, but I'm happy to talk about those cars.
	I just didn't understand the reference.
	I understand, sir.
	Well, it is a thrill to be on with you.
	I am in California now.
	I did live in Vegas and I did work as a construction worker in Pahrump, so it is a great honor.
	I just want to get that out of the way.
	Nevertheless, it is a phenomenon that I just wanted to touch base with you and it is thrilling to get through and I'm just curious if maybe anyone else has had any similar experiences.
	Wait, wait, you haven't told us yet what the experience is.
	Okay, so basically it is a vehicle that you know in your day-to-day driving that you might see in your rearview and oftentimes I have waited for vehicles to just pass by me so that I can get over into the adjacent lane to make a turn and they disappear
	into thin air.
	And my father, may he rest in peace, he passed away a few months ago of natural causes.
	But nevertheless, he was a taxi driver and he did recall me mentioning this to him a few times.
	And while driving full shift in the workday, he did call me one day and said he had like three vehicles disappear from
	his rear view.
	And with no turn off lane or no real explanation.
	So I just really wanted to see if maybe you could throw it out there and see if anyone had any similar experiences.
	I did do a little research on Google and there was one book written by a person in the 70s if I'm not mistaken
	that saw a car disappear into a white cloud in front of him on their way to work.
	And this was published a while back.
	I do not recall the title of the book.
	I'm sure it could be accessible information.
	Well, I know a lot of us talk to our cars, but, uh, and so I guess you could even extend it the whole thing and imagine that a car, you know, Betsy, they call it Betsy or whatever, it could have a soul, I guess.
	It could disappear, I suppose.
	I've never seen a car disappear, but, uh, why not?
	Why not?
	They've made movies about cars, right?
	Stephen King, I believe.
	So I guess it could be a ghost car.
	That's a new concept for me.
	By the way, George, be sure to let me know what arrives in the mail, please.
	Speaking of cars and driving, the driving here in Manila is, how to put it, it's sort of insane.
	And it took me about eight or nine months to get to the point that I'd be willing to drive here at all, even in the relatively semi-sane area that we live in here.
	But the rules are kind of tossed away.
	People don't stay in their lanes.
	You're dodging all sorts of things, including animals of various sorts, human beings.
	Vehicles that we don't have in the U.S., multiple carrier type deals, and they all sort of mix it up in a strange, unusual, weird, yet functional way.
	They use the horn a lot here, which indicates that you own the immediate X number of feet of concrete in front of you and everybody better move.
	But it all works.
	And rarely do you see a car wreck.
	I mean, they do happen, obviously, but rarely do you see it.
	Now, studying the traffic pattern, when you first get here, you would assume there'd be bodies littering the streets everywhere from the way people drive.
	But not so.
	It may have to do with the fact that there's an awful lot of traffic and you don't move that fast, so people don't get killed.
	But even the smaller bumper, you know, bumper smashers, There's not much of it, and it's a puzzle.
	And I would like to congratulate my wife, who learned to drive in the United States.
	Actually, Karen Jackson helped her to learn.
	I'm told husbands ought not teach their wives to drive, and I fully understand why.
	And now, she's driving over here in Manila.
	And I can assure you all that if you can drive in Manila, you can drive anywhere in the world.
	It just doesn't get any tougher than here.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Good morning, Art, or good afternoon, where you're at.
	Yes, indeed.
	It's about, oh, coming up on two o'clock in the afternoon.
	And I'm almost out of time, too, this hour.
	Gosh, I just looked up real quick what's up.
	Uh, buddy, I sure hope you get to catch some good fireworks.
	Uh, this is Steven in Columbus, Georgia.
	I thought you owe fireworks, buddy.
	Uh, fireworks?
	Yes!
	You mean coming up here on the 4th of July?
	Yes, sir!
	Yes, I've got 15 shows this year to do so.
	Um, yes indeed.
	Alright, I'm sorry to cut you off early, thank you very much.
	Actually, here in the Philippines they celebrate Independence Day from the United States, and that's already occurred.
	From Manila, we'll be right back.
	It is, and coming up is a show I've wanted to do now for a long, long time.
	Dean Radin earned a B.S.W.E.
	magna cum laude in engineering from the University of Massachusetts.
	He also has an M.S.
	in electrical engineering and a Ph.D.
	in psychology, both from the University of Illinois.
	For ten years, he conducted research on advanced telecommunications systems at AT&T, Bell Labs, and GTE Labs.
	Then, for the majority of the last 20 years, he has investigated psychic phenomena in academic and industrial positions.
	Dean served as a member of a classified research project Investigating psychic phenomena for the U.S.
	government at SRI International and headed PSI research programs in Silicon Valley for two scientific and industrial think tanks.
	He's been a senior scientist at the Institute of Noetic Sciences since 2001 and is also adjunct faculty at Sonoma State University in California.
	We're going to be talking about advancements in PSI research, including ESP and mass consciousness studies.
	This is the single most fascinating topic, in my opinion, that I've ever discussed on the air.
	In a moment, Dean Radin.
	Well, it's been quite a while.
	Dean Radin, welcome back to Coast to Coast AM, my friend.
	Thanks very much, Art.
	Great to be on the show again.
	It's good to have you.
	It is the, as I said, and I mean this, it's the single most interesting topic that I've ever discussed on this program.
	Period.
	So, your book, The Conscious Universe, I guess now, is old.
	It was published back in 97 and it's been in print ever since.
	And now, finally, just now, this long, it's going into paperback.
	Is that right?
	Yeah, finally at the end of this month it's going into paperback.
	Well, alright, so a lot of authors I have on have just written a book, you know, and they want to come on and plug their book, but now it's been around for 12 years, so, you know, the response, what is it like?
	How would you describe the response to your book?
	Well, you're right, I am kind of plugging it, but I'm plugging the paperback.
	That's fine.
	The last 12 years have been, I think, quite interesting.
	I mean, personally, I was at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas at the time, when it came out.
	And then shortly afterwards, I went to Silicon Valley for three years and had the great opportunity of working for a while at a place called Interval Research, which was funded by the Microsoft co-founder, Paul Allen.
	And so this was an industrial lab with Lots of great resources and wonderful colleagues and my job was to look into ESP.
	Not so much because we thought we'd be able to turn it into a product, but as often happens that in any kind of industrial lab.
	It's useful to have somebody around to help you think outside the box.
	There's nothing quite like thinking outside the box when the box you're talking about is the nature of space and time.
	Well, 12 years, again, it's a long time, and in 12 years you would think that the book would make a pretty big dent in terms of causing your colleagues, other scientists, to look into all of this, but it necessarily has not occurred that way, has it?
	I would say that there is a change in the sense of how people talk about this in a private way.
	There isn't a huge change yet in how it's talked about publicly, at least within mainstream science.
	Why not?
	Well, you actually gave a hint early on when you mentioned that you've done a couple of large-scale mass consciousness experiments and it frightened you.
	Well, it frightens everyone.
	There's something about the sense that if it is really true that our intentions are able to go out and push the world around a little bit, And you start thinking about the consequences of that.
	It is frightening.
	That's exactly the right word.
	Frightening.
	And that's what it did.
	It scared me.
	Yep.
	And it tends to scare a lot of people.
	And even if we're only talking about something like telepathy or remote viewing, that's also frightening for a lot of people because we like to walk around imagining that we have private thoughts and that things that we would like to keep secret really are secret.
	But in fact, that's actually not true.
	And so it really does – it plays mind games on you in challenging some very basic assumptions that we have in terms of how we go about our daily lives.
	And so that's one reason why the public discussion is not yet mainstream yet.
	Do you have any clues, Dean, that behind the scenes, and I'm not just talking now about the work you've done, but perhaps behind the scenes somewhere else deep in government or who knows where, there are projects underway that you may just have a hint about?
	Well, I have more than a hint.
	When it comes to government, there are definitely people who are interested in these phenomena.
	As they always have been, and the primary concern is that if these things are real, and it certainly looks like they are, then we should be paying attention because it might be a threat to national security.
	And so there's always going to be some people whose job is to pay attention to these kinds of phenomena, and they're still interested.
	In the academic world, I know that there are a number of groups and prominent universities that are actually engaged in research because I consult with them, but they're all sworn to secrecy.
	I mean, it's practically like military secrecy.
	You really cannot talk about who they are or what they're doing because they recognize that the nature of the taboo is pretty strong and they simply don't want to lose credibility among their colleagues.
	Well, we know there was a secret project going on, funded I suppose by the CIA, if I recall correctly.
	Is there something like that, do you suspect, I guess it would be an easier way to ask you, that there is something like that going on, funded by the CIA or NSA, or somebody like them, right now?
	I can't imagine there wouldn't be, actually.
	I don't know the answer.
	If I did, obviously I couldn't say.
	I suspect that there are people who are interested in tracking what's going on, but if I had to guess, I would guess that there's not a formal program.
	That is probably not true in other countries.
	It's almost certainly the case that in Russia today, for example, that there's not just a program, but it's a fairly sizable program.
	I suspect the same is true in China.
	I would agree with you.
	China and Russia.
	Do you have any inside information?
	How do you ask something like this in a public forum?
	But I have to ask anyway.
	Do you have any inside information with regard to either one of those programs or others that may exist?
	You're talking about other governments?
	Yes.
	But no, I can't talk about it.
	Well, I had to ask, I'm sorry.
	Yeah, and by the way, it's not really that, it's not classified or anything.
	It doesn't take long to simply go searching on the web and you can find certainly historical information suggesting that major governments around the world have always been interested in these things.
	The only difference between the U.S.
	and other governments right now is that the other governments are a little bit easier to find, that they're still active.
	We've got 11 years under our belt now with the GCB, the Global Consciousness Project.
	What's the latest?
	Is there a latest to talk about?
	I mean it's been a while since we've been on the air.
	I would say that the latest is a paper which actually was published at the end of last year.
	The first author is Peter Bancel.
	He's a physicist living in Paris.
	Who initially was extremely skeptical about the whole idea of this, because after all, we're talking about mind-matter interaction at the level of the whole globe.
	Sure.
	But it's an open project.
	All the data is downloadable.
	It's as open as a project can possibly be.
	And he was intrigued, so he started looking into it.
	And the more he looked into it, the more intrigued he became.
	So he's now one of the principal analysts in the project.
	And he and Roger Nelson, the head of the program, wrote a paper and published it, which is available on the Global Consciousness Project website.
	And he goes, I mean, this is a highly technical paper, so while everybody can get it, not everyone will understand it.
	The upshot of it is that the question all along has been, what's actually happening to these random number generators?
	You have a big event that happens out there that attracts a lot of minds.
	Is it forcing the generator to behave in a strange way?
	Or is it forcing all of the generators to behave in sync with each other, in a kind of correlation event?
	And so his analysis shows pretty clearly that what's going on with a worldwide event, something that attracts a lot of media attention, is a correlation.
	That all of the generators are pushed a little bit.
	And that's very unexpected when you're dealing with a large random system.
	So this is something new that we haven't seen before in parapsychology.
	And it's because we never had a network of 65 random generators all running at once around the world.
	So that's one thing that's new.
	We're seeing a large scale, unexpected correlation in this network.
	The other thing is that since we now have events occurring in locations and the random generators are distributed around the world, Ask the question as to whether or not distance matters.
	There's been an assumption for many many years that for any kind of psi phenomena that distance doesn't matter.
	Well it turns out that maybe it does.
	No kidding?
	Yeah.
	That really is new.
	I guess you know for some of the audience not yet exposed to this we should probably give them the basic 101 for the eggs.
	Okay.
	The EGG is an acronym that stands for Electro-Gyogram, which is a play on words.
	It's like an EEG, electroencephalogram.
	The idea is that when you're studying the brain, you put electrodes all around the brain and you pick up signals that allow you to infer what's going on inside the brain.
	The EGG, these electro-gyograms, are like electrodes.
	That we stick all around the head of Gaia, the head of the world, and we infer what's going on in Gaia's mind as a result of these eggs.
	Now, the eggs are simply electronic circuits that ultimately, if you trace the source of randomness in the circuit, it comes from quantum events, typically things like electrons tunneling through barriers, that sort of thing.
	And the idea is that the circuit can be used to do the equivalent of flipping coins, quickly, randomly flipping coins.
	And the computer keeps track of every single flip, so you have a very accurate way of automatically keeping track of a lot of random events.
	Alright, well unless it's changed, these eggs, so-called, really were computers that were random number generators scattered around the world, correct?
	That's right.
	That's right.
	And it's the same idea.
	It's just a large network of these eggs or random number generators running all at once.
	All right.
	And the upshot is that when some big event in the world occurs, 9-11 is a perfect example, that all of a sudden these random number generators are Affected, I guess in the sense that they become not as random suddenly.
	And it relates to the large event that occurred, 9-11 or whatever.
	And more interestingly, it seems to occur, perhaps not all the time, but frequently, just prior to the large event occurring.
	Is that still part of the model?
	Yeah.
	And actually, Peter did a very interesting analysis.
	He went back through the entire database, which is now over 10 years of data.
	It's a couple of terabytes of data, or terabits.
	So he went back and looked for every magnitude 6 earthquake that had occurred over those 10 years, many of which were not identified as being something of interest over the course of the 200 and some events that we've looked at, because some magnitude 6 earthquakes occur under the ocean and they don't produce any effect.
	But nevertheless, seismologists know that they occur, so there's these records.
	So he separated the earthquakes, the ones that occurred on land masses that would affect people, and the ones that occurred in the ocean that didn't affect people, to see whether there would be a difference.
	Are we dealing with human consciousness or fish consciousness?
	And what he found was that, first of all, the majority of the effect, the primary effect, occurred over land masses.
	Suggesting that it has something to do with the way that we react to it.
	Virtually no response at all over the ocean, or under the ocean.
	The second thing was he looked for precursor events in the random network.
	And over land masses you get what looks like a symmetrical bump in terms of the lack of randomness.
	Where the peak of it occurs right around the time of the earthquake itself, but between two and eight hours before the earthquake there is a significant rise.
	Or a significant change in the network as though something is alerting the entire system that there's about to be an earthquake.
	And these are the ones that are seen over land masses.
	That's fascinating.
	Is it possible, Dean, that rather than reacting to individual or even mass consciousness, what we're getting are signals from the Earth itself?
	Well, there is some evidence that... Wait a minute, I'm sorry, I just answered my own question.
	You just told me that the ones that occur in the ocean are not reflected, so that would seem to suggest no, wouldn't it?
	Yes, although there are some indications that there are geomagnetic changes that occur, magnetic changes that occur before earthquakes.
	But the effects that we see in the generators do seem to be linked to human consciousness.
	Or at least land animal consciousness, because an earthquake that occurs around the ocean, even though there are whales and fish and so on, they wouldn't be affected in the same way that we are on land.
	For them, it's a minor bump.
	Okay, and then can it be more geographically pinpointed than that?
	In other words, if you look at the sensors that were closest to the epicenter of the earthquake on land, do you see a bigger bump?
	That's where Peter has found evidence.
	I'm not so sure about earthquakes, but certainly for the large-scale emotional events that occur, some of which are earthquakes, yes, there are bigger correlations among the random generators that are close to the events than the ones that are distant.
	Now, we're limited to the size of the Earth, of course, in this experiment, but it looks like somewhere beyond 8,000 kilometers or so, we don't get much of an effect.
	Most of the effect is really located close to the event itself.
	And back in 9-11 we actually did an analysis to see whether most of the statistical effect was around New York City and Washington and we did find that at the time.
	But what we're seeing now is a confirmation that there does look like there's some kind of a distance effect.
	That's fascinating.
	I wonder if that means that there is, as with radio for example, as a signal goes out it becomes weaker.
	So does that mean that the effect of the consciousness is like a radio signal, that as it traverses whatever medium it's traversing, it slowly pays attention to relatively conventional physics and becomes weaker?
	Or does it mean that The people in the immediate area are simply more affected, and so their signal is more intense.
	Those are the two primary contenders, and we have no clear answer to that yet.
	But yeah, you're right.
	If it turns out that we're dealing with something that has a physical component to it, like a drop-off of an electromagnetic signal, that would be really exciting, because that would begin to give us a clue about the nature of these events.
	If it turns out that it's because of This is such fascinating stuff, Dean.
	It's just absolutely riveting.
	be nearer to the event, which seems plausible, well that's also interesting because it's
	a secondary way of showing that we're really dealing with something like human consciousness
	and not something even more exotic than that.
	This is such fascinating stuff, Dean.
	It's just absolutely riveting.
	So where do you go from here in this sort of research?
	I mean, when you begin to get these kinds of tantalizing answers, you just want more
	and more and more and it just doesn't come that quickly because I know the analysis of
	all this data takes time.
	It's partially an analytical problem, but it's largely a problem of the lack of people who are interested in the project.
	What's the matter with them?
	I don't know.
	I mean, we've been talking and writing.
	You know, there's a lot of interest.
	Of course, among some scientists, they can't get beyond the first two sentences.
	They say, well, this is completely ridiculous.
	There's no way to even imagine how such a thing could exist.
	And so they just dismiss it.
	And that's unfortunate, but, you know, that's what happens.
	Well, that side is for you.
	All right, Dean, just rest for a moment.
	We've got a lot of ground to cover.
	Dean Radin is my guest, and this really is, in my opinion, the most fascinating topic ever discussed on Coast to Coast AM.
	Imagine a power that could change anything you wish changed.
	I'm Art Bell.
	Good morning, everybody, or afternoon, or evening, whatever.
	Listen, for those of you who didn't catch the beginning of the program, yes, the immigration situation got solved very quickly.
	My thanks go out to a lot of people, especially to all of you for helping out with that.
	It did get done very quickly, and so that's all solved.
	And again, suffering along with me a little bit because I decided to come on the air despite a Southeast Asian virus that bit me about three days ago.
	So I'm about three days into a pretty wild cold.
	Hopefully not H1N1 or something like that, but just a fairly common Southeast Asian cold.
	So if my voice sounds a little odd, that's why.
	My guest is fascinating.
	He's Dean Radin.
	We're talking about the Global Consciousness Project and actually this night a lot more.
	So in a moment, Dean Radin will be right back.
	Well, okay, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back.
	Very sorry for the interruption.
	The equipment that we've got that connects us between this side of the world and the other side of the world just simply disconnected.
	There's no way to know why that occurred.
	It occurred during the break, and it simply disconnected.
	So, our apologies.
	I guess when you try to do a long-form radio program from one side of the world to the other, that occurs occasionally.
	Let's see if Dean Radin is still there.
	Dean?
	I'm still here, Art.
	Thank goodness.
	All right.
	All right, Dean.
	I was going to ask you if the GCBP Egg Basket Observer is still online, but since we had that little break, I took a second and I'm looking at it right now.
	So if people would like to take a look at this, I would recommend going to Google and just putting in Princeton eggs, and it will take you to The appropriate website, it's too long for me to read to you, but they're obviously, you know, the thing is still going.
	I'm sitting here watching the eggs bounce up and down.
	It's kind of eerie, isn't it?
	Yeah, what you're looking at is a movie made of the behavior of all of the eggs over the past 24 hours.
	There's a number of new displays that are being developed to help visualize what's going on in this thing.
	And by the way, You asked, well, what's next?
	How are we going to advance this?
	And there actually are some advancements.
	One of them is a clue that we've known for some years that psi ability in general seems to be modulated by the geomagnetic field, the Earth's magnetic field.
	You may remember when the Conscious Universe first came out, one of the chapters talks about psi and the casino.
	Since I was in Las Vegas, surrounded by casinos, I had always hoped that I could get some data on what actually goes on in the games from one day to the next, because of the possibility that if we're really dealing with environmental modulation of these abilities, that we'd be able to see it in that data.
	So I did an analysis.
	I was fortunate enough to get some data for four years worth of daily games, table games and slot machines.
	And I made a guess that the lunar cycle would modulate with solubility.
	And the reason is that when the moon is full, it's actually in the tail of the magnetosphere.
	What that means is that you can imagine the Earth's magnetic field like a sphere around the Earth, but because of the solar wind, the solar wind turns that sphere into more like a teardrop shape.
	The teardrop, when the Earth, when the moon is full, the teardrop goes quite far away from the Earth and the moon is right in the tail.
	And as a result, it tends to dampen the fluctuations in the magnetic field.
	So, over the long term, during the full moon, the Earth's geomagnetic field tends to be somewhat quieter than it is at other times.
	And so I figured, well, if it's true that what we've seen in many other studies, that A quiet geomagnetic field seems to improve solubility, then maybe the take, that people would win more during those times because they'd be just a tiny little bit more psychic.
	So that was the working hypothesis and I did the analysis and sure enough, to my shock, people actually were winning a few percentage more during the time of the full moon.
	Wow, the way casinos work, I would think that would concern them greatly because they operate on a, well, most of them anyway, on a pretty small percentage of win.
	So, it's amazing.
	No, the general managers who I spoke to were overjoyed because now there was a new reason for people to come into the casino.
	And of course, as you know, the longer people stay in a casino, even if you end up winning a jackpot, you just stay there and you put all your money back in.
	That's true.
	So from a casino's point of view, it was great.
	It was like a good reason to attract people, come for a full mood madness, and that sort of thing.
	All right.
	I want to ask you about this.
	It's fascinating to me.
	I don't know a thing about it, but it's on the little sheet that they give me before the show, and it says, if somebody wants to experiment, With a field, a field REG system, like the eggs used in the Global Consciousness Project, somebody now apparently is making some kind of device that you can buy.
	I hadn't heard a word about this.
	Tell me about it.
	As you know, the program, the research program at Princeton closed a few years ago when the primary professor retired.
	But there have been so many people who have dealt with that program over the years, including myself, and students from Princeton, that one of the students was entrepreneurial and said, you know what, we can take these random number generators and make it a commercial product.
	So there's now a company called Siloron, P-S-Y-L-E-R-O-N, Siloron.com.
	Which makes random number generators, which are basically identical to the ones that were used in the Princeton lab for many years.
	And so I happened to see them at a conference this past weekend, and I said, well, you know, I think people would be interested in playing with one of these little boxes.
	It's a little box you attach to your PC, and you can use it for field consciousness experiments yourself.
	And they said, well, if you mention it on the air, then we'll give the listeners of Coast to Coast A special discount if they use code word, Art Bell.
	So now you know, you can buy this device and it comes with software, mainly I think for PCs.
	Alright, before people think we're doing some sort of infomercial, we're not.
	You're not affiliated in any way with this company, right?
	I'm not affiliated with them in any way, I just am appreciative that somebody had the The business sense to make this thing into a little box so people can play with it, because I get asked all the time by people, how would I go about experimenting with this concept?
	And now there's a way.
	Okay, well God bless them.
	Alright, I want to know about it.
	So when you hook this thing up to your PC, what do you have?
	What are you seeing on the screen?
	What can you interpret from what you see?
	Well, first, what do you see on the screen?
	What does it do?
	Well, there's several different modes.
	And for a field consciousness kind of experiment, you basically set it up and it just runs all by itself.
	So you're not, I mean, if you want to, you can intently concentrate, like meditate or something for a few minutes and see whether the curve that is being created deviates away from chance.
	You could do that.
	But typically, the way that we've used these experiments is you bring your PC and you bring this device to something which you know is going to be very engaging.
	Like a choir or a play or a movie or something where you know there's a lot of people and they're all paying attention.
	And you just run it.
	You run it in the vicinity where this is taking place.
	And then when it's over, you go back and you can check the data and there's an automatic way to do an analysis to see whether or not the randomness became less random during those periods when people were very engaged.
	Is there any indicator on the screen, something like the display we see with the eggs, for example, so that you're aware instantaneously if something begins to deviate from the random?
	Yes.
	One of the options is you can press a button and see a real-time curve which shows you how close you are to chance or how far away you are from chance.
	Now, this particularly sounds interesting in view of the recent apparent evidence that the closer to the event you are, the larger effect you're going to see.
	Another thing I guess not fully answered yet is whether we're seeing some individual particularly effective consciousness at work or mass consciousness at work.
	I guess you feel it's mass consciousness, but we don't know anything for sure, do we?
	Well, we don't know much yet, but the value of people doing these experiments is maybe we'll begin to learn more.
	My guess is that when we deal with mass consciousness, the thing which is most important is coherence.
	So whether that's coherence within one person or coherence among a group, it's much easier to create coherence within yourself because you're not battling others, you're only battling your own fears and so on.
	Sure.
	For a group, though, the metaphor that I like to think of here is that it's as though you're creating a large soap bubble.
	It's a real structure.
	It can persist in time.
	It has a certain shape, but one pin will break it.
	And the pin, in the case of a large group of people, is one person thinking, you know what?
	This is stupid.
	That will break the coherence.
	And this is one of the reasons why If we see small effects in the laboratory with one person, you'd expect, well, if you have a million people, maybe you'll get something a million times bigger.
	And you don't get that.
	And as I said, I think the reason we don't see effects that are massively bigger is that it might be a nonlinear effect to begin with.
	But even if it wasn't nonlinear, all you need are a couple people out there who are acting like pins and they break the soap bubble.
	Is that kind of analogous to a medium who will have a group of people in a circle holding hands, and one of them is going, this is just so much bull, and that affecting the outcome?
	Absolutely.
	We see it all the time.
	For 40 years we've known in parapsychology something we call the sheep-goat effect.
	The sheep-goat effect means that the sheep are the believers and the goats are the non-believers.
	And so if you take just a random group of people and you have them do an ESP test and then you separate them according to their prior belief, sheep and the goats, you very predictably will get people who are the sheep getting positive results and the goats will get negative results.
	So it's your prior belief about what you expect or what you want to see which strongly modulates the results.
	And of course, all of that is tough stuff for a scientist looking at all this, because they're going to say it's got to have repeatability, or we don't want to look at it.
	And ironically, we do have repeatability of the sheep-goat effect.
	Yeah, that's true.
	That's true.
	In addition, being skeptical is different than not believing.
	You know, I'm skeptical when I do these experiments.
	You have to be, otherwise you're not doing science right.
	But I can suspend my disbelief just like I do when I go to the movies.
	You know, I'm not suspending my critical judgment.
	I'm saying that when you do an experiment, you set up all of the conditions in such a way so that you're pretty sure that you're doing it under proper controls.
	But you also allow for the possibility for something to occur.
	And that's quite different than maintaining a skeptical attitude in which you're really wishing secretly that it's not going to work because you don't want to see it.
	Just a couple of hardware questions.
	I mean, does this little box, I've never seen it, I don't know a thing about it, does it interface to a computer like with a USB cable or something like that?
	Yes.
	It's a little box about half the size of a cigarette package with a USB cable.
	You just plug it in, a little blue light turns on, and it's going.
	Wow.
	Alright, another inquiry.
	How much is something like this, can I ask?
	I don't know.
	I think it's a few hundred dollars.
	I'm not part of the company, so I don't pay close attention to that, but I think it's a few hundred dollars.
	Have you had the opportunity to, excuse the expression, play with it?
	I have, yes.
	Yes, I play with it.
	In an experiment that I'm running now, I actually run one of these boxes in the background as a secondary measure for a mind-matter interaction effect.
	Yeah, so I've used it.
	They also have a couple of other products that also are based on randomness, which you can find when you go to the website.
	Oh my goodness.
	Well, I really want one.
	Have you seen people, what can I ask, have you either personally or seen others Attempt to affect this, have you used this in conjunction with other, what am I trying to ask, have you verified that it works?
	I guess that's a way to ask it, I don't know.
	Right.
	The device is based on the same original patented design that was produced by the Princeton Lab.
	And we've used many different kinds of random devices over the years, built by numbers of different people.
	All of them seem to work.
	In other words, there's nothing magic about this particular circuit.
	The importance of it is that it is a truly random device, truly random hardware device, and this is that.
	Yeah, and it's available for people to buy, and I hesitate to use the word play with, but I guess that's kind of what you do.
	In other words, you can sit there and try and affect its randomness, or try to cause it to be less random, and you would get an indication that it was successful.
	That's really exciting stuff, and I just found out about it.
	From Manila, I'm Art Bell.
	It is.
	Good morning, afternoon, evening, whatever.
	We've got Dean Radin, and this is very exciting.
	There is this device, and I promise you two things.
	One, I just found out about it, and two, Dean Radin is not in any way affiliated with the company at all, and yet they have decided to give discounts for this product to people who use the code word Art Bell, my name.
	And their website, if you want to take a look at it, perhaps if they're listening, they'll put a link up on our site to it.
	But again, we're not in any way connected to them.
	is www.psyleron.com.
	Once again, www.psyleron.com.
	And I just now, myself, took a look at it, and I see the device in front of me,
	and if you read the overview of the device, you will discover that...
	that it is simply a random number generator, but when hooked up to your computer, it gives
	you a graph readout of what's going on moment to moment.
	It's absolutely fascinating.
	And again, this is very, very important.
	I'm not connected with him in any way.
	I just found out about it, nor is Dean Radin.
	So it's a product.
	Somebody was smart enough to turn out a product based on the research that Princeton did.
	And you could, I suppose, use this in an ongoing project at home to monitor consciousness in
	your area, in the world, and you could attempt much as we had kind of a game a few years
	ago where you attempted to affect a picture in front of you, which was, I guess, a kind
	of a number, random number generator.
	But this will give you a graph readout, you know, in real time, and you can see whether you are able to affect it.
	In other words, you can go into a state of concentration and try to affect it.
	It's fun stuff.
	So, pretty exciting, I would say.
	Dean Radin will be back in a moment.
	Okay, welcome back.
	Welcome back, Dean.
	Thank you.
	It's really exciting, Dean, and now I want one and getting things from there to here is very hard.
	Boy.
	I'm sure you can get one.
	Yeah, I'm sure.
	Absolutely fascinating.
	I'm glad somebody picked up on it and that's just amazing and made themselves, I hope they make themselves some money, I guess.
	It's worth keeping in mind that the effects that we see in these experiments with random generators, we're pretty darn sure that they're real.
	Because we have about a half a century of data now.
	But they're pretty small.
	You know, it takes a lot of repeated trials, just the right frame of mind to get an effect.
	So it's this isn't we're not talking about something like a psychic switch at this point.
	But it is a valid research instrument.
	And I at least have fun using it.
	I can well imagine.
	All right, there's so much to ask you about.
	Lynn Taggart's intention experiment, for example.
	Is it working?
	Do you think the efforts they're making... I think there's something called the Million Nurse Global Caring Field Project.
	Tell me about that.
	Yeah, there are a number of people now who Partially inspired by the idea of the Global Consciousness Project, that there's a way to measure something.
	Many people are creating million-person meditations and the equivalent.
	So Lynne McTaggart, a journalist who wrote the book The Field, started this project that she called the Intention Experiment, in which she's gathering a few tens of thousands of people who are targeting specific kinds of targets simultaneously, things like the growing of seeds, to see whether or not all those people intending the same thing at the same time get an effect.
	And there is some evidence that that collective intention does have a measurable effect.
	Again, these are not wildly significant.
	We're not seeing people levitate and that sort of thing, but we are in sensitive systems, we are seeing changes that are consistent with what the intentions are.
	And I've done similar studies with water as target, and with food as target, and we see effects there as well, with people with strong intentions.
	Okay, well, with all of these people doing all of these experiments, I would think that collectively, even though it's a relatively mild effect, the evidence should be adding up to something that gets close to proof that there should be a lot more work in this area, but has it reached that Trigger point yet?
	I would say probably not.
	Not quite yet.
	The means to do these experiments are relatively new.
	If we didn't have worldwide communications and we didn't have the Internet, this would be impossible.
	So, these technologies are new and even the concept of doing these mass experiments as an experiment is relatively new as well.
	So, you know, 10 years sounds like a long time, but in terms of The long reach of science.
	This is just started.
	True.
	All right.
	In your book, Entangled Minds, you propose that ESP might be related to quantum entanglement, which is in itself very difficult for a lot of people to understand.
	Have developments in physics, and I know they're moving quickly in this area, continued to support the idea?
	Well, this is an area that I've been most interested in recently.
	I gave a talk last week at the IONS conference, the Institute of Noetic Sciences conference.
	And originally, I was going to talk about advances in psi research.
	And then I realized that, you know, we can talk, I can talk for hours about various experiments, but underlying it, what's really needed is something like a different model of reality.
	And unless you have that model in mind, it becomes very difficult to know even what to do with psi phenomena.
	So, I spent a couple of months getting up to speed on what the latest developments are in quantum entanglement, because I think that, as I wrote in Entangled Minds, that the idea of entanglement is that at elementary particle stages, if photons interact or electrons or atoms, once they interact, they remain connected in some strange way that is counter to common sense, but nevertheless We know that it's true theoretically and experimentally.
	That there's some kind of connection which persists, even in systems that have now separated.
	Equations of entanglement say that these connections are not in space or time.
	They transcend space and time in some strange way.
	And so I'm thinking about that as a phenomena.
	We know this is a real physical phenomena.
	This is a deep level of reality that we're all embedded in.
	That if it were true that this also emerges up into higher level systems, including biology, then we shouldn't be too surprised that occasionally our own experience is mimicked by these kinds of strange connections.
	Because after all, the mystery in any kind of psychic experience is that somehow you feel connected to another person at a distance or to an object at a distance, and the distance could be through space or through time.
	Okay, but with quantum entanglement, hasn't it been suggested that distance is not a factor at all?
	In other words, you get a flip and a flop a mile away or on the other side of the Earth.
	I think that's been demonstrated, hasn't it?
	It has, yes.
	So with a quantum entanglement effect, distance really does not matter at all.
	In fact, it's been, I think the record now is something like 90 miles.
	Looking at these connections and the speed, you know, the idea is that these are instantaneously connected.
	They look separate, but they're really not.
	So a recent test measured how fast the speed of light would need to go in order to see the effects that were observed.
	Right.
	And they found a minimum of 10,000 times the speed of light would be necessary to explain this kind of instantaneous connection.
	So it probably is instantly.
	Although, all we could really see at this point was 10,000 times the speed of light.
	So, if there's a distance effect, as I mentioned in the Global Consciousness Project, it still might be an entanglement thing, which has to do with people's reactions, as opposed to something like an electromagnetic signal drop-off.
	But there is a difference.
	In other words, with quantum entanglement, no effect with distance, but with consciousness, you are, you're suggesting to me, measuring an effect, a larger effect, closer in.
	Right.
	And so, but again, we don't know why that is.
	We don't know whether it's because people near an event simply pay a lot more attention to it than people far from the event, which seems plausible, or whether there's some kind of physical Actual physical effect going on at a distance.
	We don't know which one of those are the proper explanation.
	My guess is that entanglement at an elementary level, when it emerges up into chemistry and biology and psychology, that it takes on new forms.
	Just in the same way that when an electron turns into an atom and turns into a molecule and so on, the new form that it emerges in has additional properties that we would not know of at a lower property.
	So entanglement, I think, has the possibility of emerging into living systems and behaving in a slightly different way.
	And so when I wrote this book, I was speculating that maybe someday people would find quantum entanglement effects in biology.
	And within the past two years, we now know that that's true.
	It's been found in photosynthesis, it's been found in enzyme activity, and most recently found in Avian Magnetoreception.
	You're going to have to explain that one, sorry.
	Avian birds.
	Magnetoreception is detecting the magnetic field lines of the Earth and using it to navigate.
	Got it.
	So it turns out that the reason that birds are able to do that is due to a quantum coherence effect.
	So this is now taking these very elementary strange quantum connections and having it emerge all the way up into a level of a living system And previously, physicists thought, well, this is impossible because you need special states of quantum coherence, which require states that are exotic, like extremely small and extremely cold and so on.
	But this is no longer the case.
	We now know that it also exists for long periods of time in hot, wet systems like biology.
	So the next step is going to be finding it in the brain.
	And the step from there to something like a psi phenomena, I think, is a small step.
	And this area of research is moving so quickly that I don't think we're going to need to wait 20 years to define this.
	We might be within a matter of two to five years before someone makes a discovery.
	And at that point, as I had predicted in my book, at that point, suddenly the past century of psi data We'll no longer look quite so anomalous as it did before, and people will start predicting, well, you know, maybe there should be something like telepathy.
	And then it'll change how the mainstream views this large body of data and, of course, the countless anecdotes that people have about these things.
	Well, you speak of a different model of reality in order to even begin to understand all of this, and that's a tough road to hoe for a lot of people, a different model of reality.
	It will require a kind of a paradigm shift.
	And I think we're still struggling with even with the idea of what quantum mechanics is trying to tell us about the nature of reality.
	I mean, most people have trouble thinking that everything is connected because that's not what our everyday life is telling us.
	I mean, I'm talking to you, but I don't feel like I'm you.
	I don't feel connected in that way.
	Yet what we know from physics now is that at some level, we actually really are connected.
	So, unfortunately, this starts to sound like mysticism.
	It's one of the reasons why this kind of discussion has been stiff-armed by the mainstream, especially by physicists, because they really don't like the idea that it sounds like a giant step backwards into the Middle Ages or something.
	Well, the whole quantum world kind of sounds that way.
	I mean, to try and, you know, I've mulled it over a million times, and to try and understand How this quantum effect occurs, it drives people crazy.
	There's no way to explain how it can happen, how two particles can act in unison no matter how far apart they are.
	It's just inexplicable, period.
	And it doesn't work with our current model of reality.
	It just simply doesn't work.
	There's no way to explain it.
	Right, so it's easier to ignore it.
	And the reason it's hard to think about and hard to explain is because all of our language and our ways of thinking are based on common sense, based on everyday world where things work like billiard balls.
	And so it shouldn't be too surprising that when you get away from the everyday world, well, maybe there are different principles that work down there, or maybe even at a cosmological level.
	So it'll be different principles that better describe the nature of those phenomena.
	Okay, but if today's theoretical physicists are willing to embrace the quantum world, which they're doing in mass right now, I would think that this would be equally embraceable.
	In fact, it kind of goes just right along with it, in a sense.
	And so, why are they embracing the quantum world and not embracing what you have learned about consciousness?
	Well, some of them are.
	Typically, what happens is The older scientists are the ones that are most difficult to change their mind, because they have a whole lifetime of experience thinking one way.
	But the younger ones, who don't have all this baggage about their old models, they are much more interested in this.
	I mean, I see it all the time.
	I'm constantly being harangued by students who are just fascinated by it all, and they want to do some kind of experiments, and it's the new generation.
	That is now growing up with quantum mechanics all over the place that I think are going to be the ones that will really embrace this to a large extent.
	So to really make progress a bunch of people have to die off.
	Well, that's what Max Planck said and he was probably right.
	You know, the older you get the more difficult it is to embrace new ideas.
	It's just part of the human psyche, I guess.
	I guess.
	Alright, are there any efforts underway to use PSI to develop mind-activated technologies?
	Well, so this is one way that will finesse the scientific controversy.
	If somebody comes up with a gizmo that you can control with your mind, then the game is over as far as people accepting this.
	And five years ago there was nobody.
	Who was interested in this?
	I had been writing about this for many years and anticipating that someone would be doing it.
	We now have something like three patents and maybe a half a dozen patents pending, all having to do with the use of the mind in operating equipment.
	Dean, how do you get a patent like that rammed through?
	I mean, you know, they're on the edge of not being able to understand a lot of technological mainstream stuff now that's presented to them.
	I can only imagine walking into a patent office trying to talk to them about what you're trying to talk to them about.
	Well, of course, the language is done in such a way so you're not saying, I'm now going to levitate.
	I want a patent for levitation.
	It's very carefully worded so that the patents have to do with processes.
	So, for example, the pair random number generator is a process that has to do with the way that you statistically evaluate random numbers.
	Now, the application of that, as listed in the patent, is for the use of the mind to influence random numbers.
	The patent's office point of view, the thing that's being protected, the intellectual property, is that particular process.
	And so they're not too concerned about whether or not you can demonstrate it right now in front of you.
	It's more about protecting an idea.
	Because the patents go for a long time.
	It may take 10 years to actually build something that works reliably, but there is an enough data behind these ideas.
	As I said, about 50 years worth of data to show that there is a real effect.
	It's simply not big enough to make it into a reliable device right now, but there's an effect.
	So you want to gain all of these patents are gaining the intellectual property rights so that people then could then could develop it.
	How do you feel generally about people's ability to patent things like this?
	I mean, is it appropriate to be able to patent something like this?
	I would prefer that we didn't have to go that way, because there's a huge amount of additional basic research that needs to take place.
	But in today's world, in order to get funding to do the research at all, Typically you need the patent because then you go to venture capitalists and other people who will give you the funding in order to help push the research along.
	That's simply the way that leading-edge research takes place today.
	Ideally, we would have large organizations like the National Science Foundation in the United States that gives money for speculative research.
	They would be funding this, but they don't.
	And so we don't have very many options.
	I imagine money for this is rough, isn't it?
	It's very difficult to get funding for not just this area, but any place on the edge of science.
	It's one of the reasons why it's difficult, whereas from my point of view, this is the most exciting stuff.
	You're really exploring right out there on the bleeding edge.
	That's where the excitement is.
	That's what drives me.
	Was that the leading or bleeding edge?
	The bleeding edge.
	When you're standing out there on the edge, you're also dodging arrows.
	Yes, I'm sure you are.
	Alright, Dean Radin, right here on the bleeding edge.
	This is fascinating, absolutely fascinating stuff from Manila, the Philippines, Southeast Asia.
	I'm Art Bell.
	That's the place, all right.
	The sun is high in the sky.
	It's the middle of the day and we're into a fascinating topic.
	It doesn't get any better than this.
	Dean Radin.
	He's my guest and we're talking about, well actually the Global Consciousness Project or what is, what's come out of the Global Consciousness Project.
	We did a series of experiments here on the air many years ago.
	We produced rain in areas that had great need for rain and had none in the forecast and we produced rain.
	We did a number of other things, a total of 10 or 11 experiments.
	It actually became frightening to me.
	Now that's intention on a very, very large scale.
	Dean Radin apparently has looked into ufology, UFOs, and I'm struggling to understand what connection there might be between ufology and the research that he's done in the past, and present for that matter.
	In a moment, we'll ask about exactly that.
	Once again, Dean Radin.
	Dean, what in the world does all of this have to do with ufology?
	That's quite a jump and an unexpected one, I might add.
	Well, I've never published an article before on UFOs and that was a strategic decision on my part because when you're dealing with one topic that's already very controversial, it's usually not too wise to mix another one into it.
	Yes.
	But the place where I work, the Institute of Noetic Sciences, was founded by the astronaut Edgar Mitchell.
	And Edgar has not been shy about telling people in many different interviews that he's aware that there are UFOs and maybe even ETs among us.
	Actually, Edgar's interviews have started to become more and more forceful in terms of the statements he's made about all this.
	Right.
	So, I see Edgar every so often, and he's still very active about this, and I've had a number of opportunities to talk to him privately, and basically what I've asked is, you mean this is for real?
	Like, directly to Edgar?
	And Edgar says, yeah, and says, why?
	And the story he tells me privately is pretty much the same he says publicly.
	You know, there's real reasons to believe it.
	So, I probably know as much as any layperson about this, what I've heard on coast-to-coast and other places, so I decided to... I needed to have some kind of response in the magazine that our place publishes, because we had a lot of inquiries.
	We have a lot of inquiries from people asking, well, what are we doing with UFOs?
	Beforehand was, we're not doing anything with UFOs.
	We're having enough trouble dealing with consciousness.
	Why add that?
	Well, so one of the links is that there are many psychic types of experiences that people associate with UFOs.
	So there's one link.
	The other one was that I know people in the government and the Defense Department, and I've asked them pretty much the same way I've asked Edgar.
	What do you do with these reports?
	Are these reports real?
	Is there something worth worrying about?
	And I pretty uniformly get positive responses.
	Partially, yeah, there is something going on.
	No, we don't know what it is.
	So the next question I get is, after my hair's standing up, should I be worried?
	And the answer is, well, probably not, because if they're here, they've been here a long time, and they don't seem to be bothering too many people.
	I guess it's okay.
	But, you know, the scientist in me is then thinking, holy smoke, what is that?
	There's something going on.
	So, the next part is, I read a bunch of books and the one that I was most impressed with was the one by Richard Dolan, UFOs and the National Security State.
	Because Richard is a historian and he's written this massive volumes that simply go through the history.
	Of the reports, and more importantly, the way that the reports have been shaped and, in many cases, covered up.
	And now we know that they've been covered up because of the Freedom of Information Act.
	Well, that was kind of an eye-opener.
	And then the last piece of the puzzle was, I know Jacques Vallée, and so I was at a conference recently, a small conference, where Jacques was talking about the case of UFOs in Brazil in the late 90s.
	And this was the Brazilian Air Force, and they were heavily involved in this for three months.
	And there's still parts of it that were classified, and even Jacques doesn't know what it was, but he knew enough to tell a small group of people I was with to make all of the hair on our entire body stand up.
	Because this was a lot of people, hundreds of Air Force people, spending a lot of time taking a lot of pictures, all kinds of strange things happening.
	And of course, the bottom line is, there's something real going on, but nobody knows what it is.
	So that piqued my interest enough to say, OK, I'll write an article.
	And I did.
	And I published it earlier in the year.
	And the bottom line was, something is definitely going on.
	I don't believe that anybody actually has the final answer on what exactly it is.
	But there's something of this magnitude.
	Whether it's ET or whether it's something that we're doing in some strange way, it certainly deserves serious study.
	It certainly does.
	You mentioned that you've had a number of private conversations with Edgar Mitchell, yes?
	I've had any number of opportunities to interview him on the air and there was one thing he said that has stuck with me all the years and I just can't work it out.
	He's a man who walked on the moon.
	There aren't many of those around and we got into a pretty good conversation one night about it and I tried to ask him Remember for me what it felt like to walk on the moon.
	Can you give me a word picture of what your feelings were to step out and to walk on another body?
	It was the strangest answer.
	I remember it, but I don't remember the details of it.
	I mean, it's all kind of foggy to me.
	It's hard for me to give you that word picture you're asking for, because there's something strange about my memory with regard to the whole thing, and I could never get over that.
	You would think something of that magnitude would be indelibly, every second of it imprinted on your memory, and yet it was kind of foggy to him.
	Did you ever touch on that with him?
	Not specifically, but I think there's a cognitive reason for why that may be so.
	You know, if you go to a new place, which is where you haven't been before and which is spectacularly beautiful, for example.
	Oftentimes you'll get a sense that this doesn't even feel real.
	This can't be happening.
	You have this kind of a shock effect that goes on.
	And so you can imagine, you spent years training like crazy, and extremely technical stuff with high danger at all times, and now you're there.
	And you have all this work to do.
	He's not having a picnic on the moon.
	He has a lot of things to do.
	And actually, at that point, didn't even know if they were going to be able to get off the moon.
	So, I'm sure his mind was so preoccupied with simply doing the job that it would be a little bit like asking a fighter pilot landing on an aircraft carrier in high seas, what did it feel like as you were landing with certain death about to occur?
	And the answer is, I have no idea.
	They do what's necessary.
	It was one of those things that, yeah, go ahead.
	On the way back.
	He suddenly had the first opportunity of actually relaxing a little bit.
	And that's when he had this big noetic experience.
	That's what was the founding experience for our whole institute.
	When he had the moment to relax and reflect on what he had just done, he had a full-blown mystical experience.
	And the scientist in him said, what in the world is this?
	And that was the origin of why we have this institute.
	Edgar and others who participated back in the days when our country did things like going to the moon, they've all made some intriguing statements.
	A lot of them have sort of refused to make statements.
	A lot of them have had troubled lives.
	I wonder, when I listened to Edgar, as I mentioned to you a few moments ago, his statements have become progressively, as the years have gone on, stronger and stronger and stronger.
	And I wonder if there is something that he wants to say, something he wants to mention that he really hasn't said yet.
	Do you have any sense of that?
	No, I think it's just a matter of impatience.
	There really is something going on.
	Isn't it time, finally?
	That we can actually talk about it, rather than having it always shoved out into the fringe.
	I mean, we can talk about it here in the middle of the night, but where can you go in a mainstream, serious dialogue to talk about it in a way that it doesn't end up in the fringe?
	And we still don't have that.
	And that's a pity.
	And of course, it's exactly the same pity for psychic phenomena and lots of other things, but it's just the fabric of society.
	Okay, in the interest of time, moving on, there's something about the link between Alec Guinness, who played the Jedi Knight Obi-Wan Kenobi in Star Wars, and the actor James Dean, and his death, Dean's death.
	What about that?
	Well, I ran across this as part of my research on presentiment, which is an unconscious form of precognition.
	There are many, many stories about premonitions, and I thought this was a particularly delicious one, because the actor Alec Guinness, who played the Jedi Knight, who has special abilities, actually did have a real-life Jedi Knight type of experience, many years before he played Obi-Wan Kenobi.
	And so on YouTube, you can actually search for this.
	Just look up James Dean Alec Guinness, and you'll probably get it.
	But the anecdote was he was being interviewed by someone who said that he had, I heard you had a premonition of the death of James Dean.
	And the story was, this was back in the 1950s, that by coincidence he ended up having dinner with James Dean and James Dean had just gotten the present of a fancy foreign sports car.
	And so he showed it to Alec Guinness and it was still wrapped up and had a bow on it and stuff.
	Uh, and at that moment, uh, Alec Guinness had this, this strange experience and he said, he just said in a far off way that, you know, I advise you not to get into this sports car because if you do, one week later you will be dead in this sports car.
	And actually, wait, he actually said that aloud?
	He did.
	And so James Dean, you know, gave him a funny look and what, what does that mean?
	And Alec Guinness sort of snapped out of it and said, well, you know, I don't know where that came from, but there it is.
	And sure enough, a week later to the day, James Dean was killed in that car.
	So the interviewer asked him, and you'll see in the YouTube clip, he asked him, did this ever happen before?
	And Elegan has kind of laughed and said, no, and I'm kind of glad it never did because it was so it was so strange.
	So I mean, here's it's a perfect case of life and fiction sort of merging into each other.
	It really is.
	Yes.
	I described to you on a previous program I've had exactly that sort of experience just one time in my life and never again and I wonder how many people have had that sort of precognitive moment that never repeats itself and no matter how you try it doesn't repeat itself and no matter how you try you can't ignore it when it happens.
	My guess is a very large percentage.
	In other words This kind of experience of premonition or any kind of psychic experience, these are not magical things that just descend from the heavens.
	They must be with us all the time.
	It's got to be here.
	It's got to be a part of the fabric of reality.
	And the reason why we pay attention to it every so often is because we're in some strange altered state where we're not paying attention to the here and now.
	And it allows these things to bubble up from our unconscious.
	And that's probably why These kinds of experiences are most often described in dreams and with certain drugs and drumming and anything that pulls you out of your ordinary state of awareness.
	That's where it lives.
	We're embedded in it all the time.
	Is there any hint of what might be a trigger to this kind of experience at all?
	Because in my case there was none whatsoever.
	I couldn't stop it when it happened.
	I couldn't I had no control over it whatsoever.
	No idea of what the trigger was.
	I was paying attention to something else altogether at the time it occurred and is there any, in all the research of this sort of thing, is there any idea, does anybody have any idea what the trigger for this might be?
	It just seems to come out of nowhere and never come again.
	Non-ordinary state of awareness combined with typically with emotional motivation.
	To force this unconscious information to bubble up.
	And now the beginnings of a couple of environmental variables that seem to modulate our sensitivity.
	I mentioned one was the geomagnetic field, and a relatively new development was the aspect of the geomagnetic field that's the important one.
	It turns out to be called something, it's called the micropulsations.
	It's a certain frequency of the geomagnetic field that when it is present, People are much more psychic than when it is not present.
	So it's not simply that the geomagnetic field is quiet, but a certain frequency is present.
	And this suggests that there may be a biochemical thing that is happening in the brain that is resonating with these certain frequencies, which make us more able to contact these unconscious emotional things.
	I wonder if anybody's done any studies.
	You keep mentioning the geomagnetic field.
	It is in an unusual state right now.
	Nearly not affected at all by the sun.
	The sun is so quiet right now that the geomagnetic field is simply unaffected by the sun.
	It's at an all-time quiet.
	Presumably, eventually, we're going to move into a very active phase with the Sun and we're going to be getting all kinds of flares and the geomagnetic field will get very active.
	There should be some sort of correlation between the active periods of the geomagnetic field and the quiet times, yes?
	Yes, although now that we're beginning to understand that there are certain frequencies The solar wind is still pushing.
	That's true.
	Even though there aren't sunspots, we're still getting the solar wind, fortunately.
	Otherwise, we'd all be fried by now.
	Believe it or not, there was actually some recent days, there were articles about it, Dean, in which the solar wind slowed almost to nothing.
	It was remarkable.
	And that's kind of frightening.
	It is kind of frightening, yes.
	That doesn't happen very often, and we're so dependent on the solar wind to keep the Are magnetic shields in place properly?
	Will it affect human behavior on many scales?
	And the answer is almost certainly it will.
	Because there's a lot of studies looking at things like accidents and domestic violence and on and on and on that are strongly correlated with changes in the geomagnetic field.
	So when we start going into a period which has much more active and chaotic field strength, we're probably going to see some interesting things happening.
	And so then it might be possible to, as you did with, as was done with the Consciousness Study, it might be possible to go back and look at the various solar peaks and minimums and try and correlate it with some sort of human activity.
	I bet that's been done.
	Yes, yes.
	And that's what this new initiative called the Global Coherence Initiative is all about.
	And the Global Consciousness Project was one component of this new, larger initiative.
	Part of it came about because of all this research showing human behavior is related to the geomagnetic field.
	But shortly after 9-11, I started looking at all kinds of ongoing data streams that we had, just to see whether something unusual may have happened at 9-11.
	And one that I ran across was The satellites that monitor the geomagnetic field from space.
	These are National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration satellites, the NOAA satellites.
	What I found was something rather odd, where if you look at September 10th and September 11th, 2001, September 10th, you see a diurnal rhythm, like a sine wave of the geomagnetic field, very smooth.
	And then about nine o'clock in the morning, Eastern Time, you see a sudden jump.
	And now we're talking about satellites that are way up in space, but there's a sudden jump in the geomagnetic field.
	And from that point on for the rest of September 11th, it's a very jagged looking curve.
	Really?
	So I've asked some of my friends who know about these things, well, what in the world could have caused a disruption that these satellites felt?
	And these are satellites on opposite sides of the Earth.
	What were they detecting?
	One person said, well, they're detecting all of our space hardware turning on.
	So what does that mean?
	Well, all of our spy satellites and things like that.
	I don't think I buy that explanation, because while those satellites are pretty sensitive, suddenly they turned on after 9-11?
	They weren't on before 9-11?
	That doesn't make any sense to me.
	So it's to raise the possibility that maybe what we've seen as a geomagnetic field effect actually goes both ways.
	Got it.
	All right.
	This is as good as it gets.
	Dean Radin is my guest.
	By now, you ought to know what we're talking about.
	It's really fascinating.
	From Manila in the Philippines, I'm Art Bell.
	Here I am indeed, a place where the sun is high in the sky right now.
	Strange as that may seem.
	I darken down my room and to me it's still the middle of the night with this program.
	This is the kind of thing you do at night, you don't do it during the day.
	But I guess I do, don't I?
	Anyway, it's Dean Radin this night, and we're talking about consciousness, which to me is just absolutely fascinating.
	I've got a couple of more questions for Dean, and then we're going to move to the phone.
	So, you've got the numbers.
	Feel free to join us.
	We'll be back with Dean Radin in a moment.
	Just a couple of notes.
	That was a commercial during the break for the CC Witness.
	And I've got to tell you, it's an MP3 player, you know, it's just awesome.
	With AM, FM, and then something called the computer, which is where You obtain all your favorite music wherever you get it and in mp3 format and then you in about five minutes you download a hundred or two hundred songs into the witness or hundreds more all your favorite stuff and it's small
	And in the Bell household, I can tell you right now, the two gals that you see in that photograph, the witness rules!
	It absolutely rules.
	They walk around with the, they actually take the witness and they put it in their bra and then the little earbuds and when you're walking around this condo, you have to sort of Make a hand signal to the girls before you talk to them and they'll take the earbud out and then talk to you.
	But it absolutely rules in this condo and I love it too.
	It's just, I don't know, it's awesome.
	CC Witness, I've just heard they've got a new price of $179.95 worth every penny.
	$29.95 worth every penny.
	Trust me, it's loved here.
	Dean Radin is my guest.
	We'll get right back to him.
	I want to remind you, I do have email.
	If you want to send me email, it's easy.
	Artbell at MindSpring.com.
	That's Artbell, A-R-T-B-E-L-L at MindSpring, M-I-N-D-S-P-R-I-N-G dot com.
	Love to get email.
	I'm trying to answer all I can.
	For all of you who helped out and sent me copies on the immigration deal a few weeks ago, thank you.
	From the bottom of my heart, thank you.
	And there's no way in the world I can answer everybody because it was just too much of... there were thousands of emails.
	And so I'm sorry I didn't get... I'm trying to answer all of my email, but I'm doing the best I can.
	All right, back now to Dean Radin and a few questions before we go to the phone.
	I just have to ask, you recently conducted an experiment that you called the Love Study.
	The Love Study.
	What was that all about, Dean?
	The Love Study.
	That was a study looking at whether one person's thoughts and emotions directed towards another person, typically a loved one, does it affect their body?
	This is our laboratory version of a distant healing experiment.
	So, here's an interesting question.
	I'm sorry to hear that you have a cold.
	So, it's frightening to think that millions of minds directed at you can have an effect, but would you be willing to have millions of beneficial thoughts directed at you to help your cold get better?
	I would, and at the same time I would cross my fingers that they're beneficial thoughts.
	Yeah, so that's part of the goal.
	So in our experiment, we wanted to make sure that the thoughts were correctly aligned because you're never quite sure what you're getting.
	So what we did was we trained partners, one of whom was healthy and the other was recovering from cancer surgery or chemotherapy.
	So the healthy partner had a huge motivation to help their sick partner.
	And this was something you can't fake in a lab.
	Even though it's a lab study, you can't fake that level of motivation because they really want to help.
	But in order to give them some hints on what to do or how to help, we train them in a type of meditation where you cultivate the sense of compassion.
	And then you send it.
	You mentally send that compassion to your partner to help them.
	In this particular case, since the patient had all kinds of different problems, different kinds of cancers and so on, we didn't want to target a particular body part or something.
	We just wanted to send beneficial thoughts.
	And then we measured the patient's physiology to see whether there was any difference when they were being thought about versus when they were not being thought about.
	And we also did other conditions where There were just healthy people coming in to do the same kind of experiment, but without the training or without all this motivation.
	And we saw a huge effect in the healthy partner and their patients, about five times bigger than we saw in ordinary people coming in.
	But even ordinary healthy people, still among couples, one person directing their intense thoughts towards another will cause a physiological change.
	This doesn't say that That the person who's receiving the thoughts is healed.
	It doesn't say that they're getting a healing response, but it definitely shows that if one person is thinking about you, and typically that you know each other, that your body does respond.
	So the case here is... Excuse me, Dean.
	Did the recipient describe the The feeling, in other words, you said there was a big effect.
	In what way did the recipient describe that effect?
	Well, most of the time, remember that the protocol is such that at random times the sending party is told to send and the receiver party has no idea when this is taking place and they don't know how long the sending periods are so they can't be biased by any of that.
	What they sometimes Respond, though, is that they feel that their heartbeat is beginning to increase, or they feel a flush in their face or a flush in their extremities.
	Gotcha.
	On two occasions, not in this experiment, but a previous experiment similar to this, we had couples come in, a man and a woman who had just met each other, and they went through the experiment, and afterwards I always debrief the participants to see how it was for them.
	And for these two couples, they were They were kind of standoffish.
	They were sort of hemming and hawing about what it was like.
	Later, I learned that, in this case, both the woman was the receiver and the man was the sender.
	And for both of these couples, the man was feeling just overwhelming waves of love for this woman that he had just met.
	And she felt it.
	She felt waves, both of them, described waves of love, just saturating them.
	And both couples ended up getting married as a result.
	That's incredible.
	I've got a good friend, I won't mention who it is so I don't embarrass her, but we're both cat lovers and I've got three cats that have trailed me around the world a couple times now and she told me that she was taught That she could communicate with her cats by, this sounds kind of crazy, but you know a cartoon where somebody's saying something in a cartoon and there's a little, there's a little bubble above their head and it describes what they're saying or thinking or whatever.
	And the way you communicate with a cat is to mentally close your eyes and create this little bubble with what you want to communicate to a cat and
	Then you send this little bubble like I love you or get up and come here or something like that
	And I've tried it a number of times, and I'm telling you it works
	It gets their attention Suddenly their head will snap up and it's like they heard something or they just felt something.
	I can't tell you which, but you might try that at home, folks.
	Just make a little cartoon bubble with what you want to say and project it toward your dog or your cat and you will see a response.
	It's the damnedest thing.
	So maybe it's kind of the same thing.
	I don't know.
	Yeah, it's very similar.
	There's no reason to believe that this is only something that works between humans.
	I'd expect that there would be some animals who would be talented in their own way and be receptive to these things.
	Sure.
	Okay, I have to touch on this.
	I didn't know you had done this, but apparently you've done some experiments on the survival of the spirit after the death of the body.
	Is that correct?
	Well, we haven't done it yet.
	But I work with people who have been doing research on mediumship, mental mediumship, double and triple blind and even quadruple blind studies to get rid of any possible bias on the part of the mediums, on the part of the experimenters or the sitters.
	And these are very impressive experiments that at least show that mediums, some mediums ...are very good at getting information apparently from departed loved ones.
	Now there's still a question.
	There's been a question for a century within parapsychology as to where does the information actually come from?
	Right.
	Is it telepathy from the sitter?
	Or is it actually from a departed person?
	So the line of experimentation now, and there are not very many people doing this, but this particular set of experiments at a place called the Winbridge Institute, they're Very clever in trying to piece apart where the information is coming from for a medium.
	And if it turns out that as we get closer and closer to answering that question, we'll finally, I think, be able to start answering this age-old question of, when you die, what happens?
	And so this is something I have not been previously involved in, but I plan to do so because it's really a fascinating area.
	Well, it's the biggest question in human existence, of course.
	What happens after we die?
	So, that's coming up, I guess.
	As a matter of fact, speaking of coming up, you're writing a new book?
	I am, yes.
	A couple of years ago, I was a co-host for a small invitational meeting, about 60 people, all of whom were identified as being thought leaders in academia.
	Mostly psychology, but also some neuroscience, physics, and a few other areas.
	A couple of Nobel laureates, some members of the National Academy of Sciences.
	We had promised everybody we would never say who they were, because otherwise they wouldn't have shown up at our conference, and we were discussing the state of the art of sci-research.
	We actually had the whole of the conference outside of the United States, even, because this topic is so sensitive among academics.
	But everyone we asked All these prominent people, they all immediately said, yeah, I'll go, because we told them who the other people were, and they knew it was a real thing.
	So I'm now in the process of writing a book which will document the talks and what happened at that meeting.
	And it'll be published by an academic press, and it's intended to document, among other things, that when academics are exposed to the data, and they actually sit down for two days, this was a two-day meeting, And exposed to one speaker after the other talking about the technical details of this, that their opinion about the nature of the evidence improves significantly.
	What we asked them after each talk was, well, what do you think of the evidence so far after each talk?
	And it significantly increased.
	All right.
	And your book, The Conscious Universe, now out in paperback, I would presume, pretty much across the country, or what's the deal?
	I believe it's released on June 30th, but of course it could be pre-ordered anywhere.
	And it's the same book as the hardback, but now it's half the price.
	All right.
	And of course, Entangled Mind is still available as well.
	Okay.
	And finally, what experiments are you working on right now?
	There's something about light, right?
	Right.
	I'm doing mind-matter interaction experiments where it's not really matter, but light.
	It's mind-light experiments.
	Two types.
	One type is taking advantage of the simplest way of demonstrating a quantum effect, which uses an optical double-slit system.
	You send a beam of light through two tiny slits.
	It creates an interference pattern.
	And we know that if you gain knowledge, if you observe the system, that it will So I'm using that kind of a setup, only instead of using a detector like your eye to look at the double slit, I'm asking people to use their imagination, to use their mind's eye at a distance to look inside the sealed box, which has the optical apparatus, and see whether the mind's eye can gain information from this quantum system, and as a result, cause it to collapse.
	Essentially what this is is a clairvoyance detector, in a sense, or a remote viewing detector.
	Yeah, I guess it is.
	We're asking people to use their non-local aspects of their consciousness to dive into an optical double-sit system and see whether that affects the light.
	And I've done a hundred sessions so far with this experiment and the answer so far is it appears that it does.
	The act of putting your mind In the vicinity of a double slit and trying to gain information about the photons going through the slit makes a measurable difference in terms of what's happening.
	All right.
	We've got to turn to the phones.
	I promised.
	Brad in Syracuse, New York.
	You're on the air with Dean Radin.
	Hi.
	Hi, Dean.
	Hi, Brad.
	How are you doing?
	By the way, I've got the Sea Cranes Calamity Kit and our family loves it.
	It's a great tool to have during a calamity.
	My question to you is, I've had instances where I'm disabled and I work part-time and I try to because I have to be around people.
	I can't stay home or my mind goes nuts.
	And I came home one night and I was in a lot of pain at the end of my shift.
	I work part-time and I said to my wife who was channel surfing, I go, Oil can.
	Oil can.
	Mimicking the Tin Man in The Wizard of Oz.
	And she was channel surfing.
	And she says, you're not going to believe what's on.
	She flips it back.
	And at the very same time, I said, oil can.
	That's where they were in the movie.
	I had no idea the movie was on.
	Another instance I had, I asked the lady that I work with, a very religious lady, if she ever heard the song Long Black Veil, which Johnny Cash did, and the band did a rendition of it, and she said, I think I did, and I sang the song to her just right there while I was at work.
	The very next day, her brother-in-law, who plays in a kind of a string band, does the song.
	And this happens to me all the time.
	So what I'm asking you, Dean, is, is there some kind of a slippage that you kind of project things sometimes if you're Not really.
	I consider myself gifted, but this happens to me all the time now for some reason.
	And as I was sitting here, I was thinking about Art Switchwood's antennas in The Spark.
	I'm thinking, God, I hope his feet aren't wet.
	So just be careful, Art.
	I'll take my answer off the line.
	Thank you very much.
	Done.
	Thank you very much.
	Well, you know, before you answer, Dean, I would say, And the big question would be with the oil can thing.
	Well, maybe subconsciously he heard the movie in the background, even if it was just a wisp of it, and it suggested that to him.
	So how can we know?
	Go ahead, Dean.
	Yeah, that's absolutely right.
	And for anecdotes, for spontaneous events like this, you really don't know.
	What we can say is that we know that in principle, because of controlled tests, where you're taking these kinds of potential flaws into account and biases, We know that in principle, yes, people can get slippage through time.
	I've done a long series of experiments, as have my colleagues, to see whether we can feel the future about three seconds in advance.
	And the answer is yes.
	There are ways of doing experiments now where you can show that unconsciously we can get things that are about to impinge on us, even though there's no ordinary way of knowing that.
	Um, there's just got to be more done.
	There's just got to be more done.
	You know, it seems as though the great body of evidence comes together to just demand that more be done, that more people pay attention to this.
	And I'm sure you've tried to think of a million different ways to enliven the scientific community in this area.
	And I just know it's big, Dean, really, really big.
	I give about 30 talks a year.
	I write books and articles and I'm finding that the main way to reach people is simply to talk about it.
	Like we found in our conference with 60 academics.
	They just didn't know the data.
	So the more we present it and the more we have an opportunity to talk about it, the more people become open to it.
	That's a very, very good point, and by the way, just suggesting, you know, that people might think good thoughts about my cold, may be having an effect.
	I may actually be feeling something for what it's worth, or either that, or it was suggested to me by you that I would feel something, but honestly, I don't think I feel something.
	Who knows about all of this?
	It's just fascinating stuff, I think.
	Someday, in some way, we're going to find out that consciousness, when directed properly, when we really understand it, may be the most powerful force in the universe.
	From Manila, I'm Art Bell.
	Perhaps words of love don't do it, but thoughts of love may, as Dean suggested.
	Dean Radin is my guest, and you really should go and get a copy of The Conscious Universe.
	It's in paperback now and eminently affordable.
	If you've been intrigued by what you've heard tonight, and I don't see how you could not be, you're going to want to grab that book and read.
	We'll be back with Dean Radin and your calls in a moment.
	I've got a number like I'm about to read you, and I'm not at all surprised.
	It's from Chris in Pasadena, California, who said, hey Art, I just tried that trick with my cat.
	I said, I love you, kitty.
	I think it woke her up.
	She perked up like, what was that?
	So I guess it's working.
	I've got a whole bunch of them like that.
	So it does work.
	It's a strange little trick, but it works.
	All right, Dean, if you're ready, we're going back to the phones.
	All right.
	Here we go.
	Seattle, Washington brings Ryan.
	You're on the air with Dean Raden.
	Hi.
	Thanks for taking my call.
	I want to bring this back to UFOs a little bit, as complicated as a subject that is.
	You had mentioned earlier that you have been told things by, or you know Jock Vale really well.
	And at some point, You heard stories that made the hair on your back raise up.
	I just wanted to ask you, what happened?
	What stories did you hear that you can share with us that kind of made you convinced, like most of us, that we are being visited, as Dr. Mitchell says?
	Why the government is not, why the mass consciousness of folks Most of us don't believe the official line on the UFO question, and why the government hasn't caught on to that, I don't know.
	But if you could maybe give us one of the stories you heard from what happened in Brazil or something like that, that'd be great.
	Thank you.
	Well, I guess the thing that makes me pay attention is not any one individual story, but more that A series of people in a position to know, in the government, and as reported by Edgar Mitchell and Jacques Vallée and a few others, that it's the concept of the UFO as a real thing.
	That's what makes my hair stand up.
	Because if you only know it through movies and through stories you hear and so on, then it's easy to dismiss as just a story.
	Of course, I see the same thing as some of my scientific friends say, well, you know, telepathy doesn't really exist, it's just a story.
	But when they get the idea that, no, actually, telepathy and clairvoyance and a few other things really do exist, it's for real, we're not fooling around, that's when you begin to pay attention in a different way.
	So, before I had paid a lot of attention to the UFO literature among people who I consider to be credible, I was able to dismiss The stories as well.
	Maybe there were mistakes or maybe it was a Venus or something like that.
	But to have a different sense of, yeah, there really is something and it's really unknown and it's really interesting.
	That's what I was paying attention to.
	Okay, it's kind of like, I've had two experiences, one with a UFO right above me, and the other, that precognitive experience earlier in my life that I mentioned.
	There's nothing like having it happen to you in an irrefutable way to make you say to yourself, obviously there is something to all this.
	Okay, Steve in Dallas, Texas, you're on with Dean Radin.
	Yeah, hi, Art, it's great to hear your voice.
	Not have them tell me if you're in 1996.
	That's always so frustrating.
	Um, yeah, I had a question about, uh, subjective time.
	Um, you know, uh, consciousness and time are both kind of basic things.
	Um, a lot of people say that when they go on a trip, and then they come back, that the return voyage seems subjectively to be shorter.
	And they explain this by, uh, Oh, they say, well, you notice the landmarks and you're getting close to home or something.
	But I think there's more to it than that.
	Maybe you're, you know, returning to a consciousness well or something.
	And I mean, I could test that by blindfolding my wife and driving her to Fort Worth and back, but we've seen too many Sopranos episodes.
	They don't pay us to convince her.
	So I'm going to hang up and listen to your answer.
	Okay.
	It's certainly true that subjectively time can be extended or compressed.
	The question is, how long is now?
	How long is the feeling of now?
	For most people in the ordinary state of awareness, it's about a half a second.
	You have like a half a second of now-ness that's moving along.
	But that can be extended or compressed.
	And what we looked at in experiments is if you extend it out, into the future.
	You simply imagine that you could extend out, say, three to five seconds.
	Are you really there?
	Are you really in the future, or is it just your imagination?
	And our experiments show that, under the right conditions, you can actually show that your sense of extending through time is real.
	That you can pick up what's about to occur in, otherwise, in your half a second of now.
	You can extend that out.
	So some of the aspects of subjective time are Fairly psychological, but not all.
	It appears as though we really do have the capacity to extend out the present.
	Okay.
	Off to Salt Lake City, and Joe, you're on with Dean Radin.
	Good morning.
	Hey, thanks a lot.
	First of all, it's an honor to speak to both of you, and it's great to hear your voice, despite the cold or whatever.
	Dr. Radin, this subject is so amazing and important, I think, when you consider The precarious state we find ourselves in with the environment, with the possible looming specter of nuclear war, the greed, all these things that are going on.
	I like to think that the majority or mass consciousness of all of us are good people who want to enjoy nature, fall in love, raise families, enjoy music, things like that.
	So I wanted you to speak about that, maybe what we could do.
	Um, another question.
	One thing that helps me visualize this is that in the evolution of the Earth, if you think about the biosphere, the atmosphere, the ozone layer, the shields, I was hoping you could speak about something, I think it's called the Noosphere, or the Noosphere, something like that, and it's basically evolving right now, and it's this mass consciousness sphere that we're connecting to, and maybe that would help Art understand the locality of it, how he explained about, you know, radio waves can go only so far, so it's kind of a centralized thing.
	And I'll wait for the answer, thanks.
	Okay.
	Yeah, it was Teilhard de Chardin, who Came up with this concept of the world as a living, thinking, breathing entity that we're evolving towards.
	An electronic membrane that covers the world.
	That was the new sphere.
	As to what we can do to help, that's where all of these new initiatives are coming from for mass meditations and programs like the Global Consciousness Project to begin to See what the effect of our minds are on the environment and on other people.
	I suspect, I don't think we have proof of this yet, but I do suspect that one of the reasons for disruption and feelings of chaos in the world is because our minds are disruptive and chaotic.
	And so it raises the possibility that if it was possible to create moments of very high coherence among lots and lots of people, Feelings of love, perhaps, that encompass the entire world, everything would become much better.
	Now, it's not clear to me that it would overnight suddenly change global warming, for example, but it would certainly push it in the right direction, I think.
	Okay, it certainly needs a push.
	Tommy in Seattle, you're on the air with Dean Radin.
	That me?
	That's you.
	Okay, my name is Tommy and I'm from Seattle.
	I'm listening in on KVI.
	Uh, Dean, I'm 69 years old this summer.
	I've had, uh, five alien abductions that I can remember, and I'm up to 40 contacts now by, uh, what I believe are alien crew members.
	And I asked them about telepathy, and they said it was electronic.
	OK, you put that aside for a moment, and then go to my mother's calling my name the moment she died.
	Her living in Detroit, me being in Seattle.
	And my question to you is, Do you think that the human mind is an electronic transmitter and that with the right equipment and technology we can tune into the radio waves of the human mind and use that for long-distance communication?
	Actually, it's an interesting question in a way.
	Obviously, you know, when it comes to what we're discussing this morning, I, you know, as a radio person, I have to believe that there is some medium of transmission, some medium of transmission.
	I have no idea what it is, but I don't believe that a particle here and a particle on the other side of the world move in the same way without some kind of communication, albeit one we don't understand, but there's something, there's some medium.
	Do you think we'll ever figure it out, Dean?
	Well, is it electronic in the way that radio works?
	Probably not.
	Is there some form of communication?
	Probably yes.
	And so I think I agree with you, Art, that we'll eventually figure out, if we're clever enough, how these connections work.
	The underlying question, though, is whether the mind and the brain are identical.
	Are they the same thing?
	Neuroscientists today suggest that they are.
	That we're, as Francis Crick put it, we're nothing but a pack of neurons.
	That's the prevailing opinion.
	I don't think that's correct.
	Because a pack of neurons, as far as we can tell, wouldn't be able to do clairvoyance, for example.
	And yet we know clairvoyance is possible.
	So, there may be, the brain may be rethought in some future time as something like a transceiver, or a means of receiving consciousness.
	Consciousness is out there somehow, and it's expressed through the brain.
	That doesn't tell us what the medium is and how it connects it, what consciousness is, but it would help reframe the discussion from just brain-like stuff into mind and brain stuff.
	There's a medium somewhere, I'm convinced.
	Or maybe it's just that I need to come up with a different model of reality.
	Laurie in Salem, Oregon.
	You're on with Dean Radenhyde.
	Hi, Art.
	Hi.
	Many blessings.
	Thank you.
	Um, Dean?
	Yes?
	I have been trying to find the answer to this question.
	I had, um, full intent, consciously sat on my couch to go into my room and go to sleep and go be with my dog, Sadie.
	She passed away four years ago this July.
	And, uh, I went in with, like I said, full intention, fully conscious aware of what I wanted to do.
	Went in my bed, went to sleep.
	Right away, went with her.
	But in real life, I could hear the phone ringing.
	And I did not want to leave my dream.
	So I ignored it and kept continuing my journey with my dog.
	The phone's ringing and ringing.
	Finally, I was able to shut it out.
	And when I woke up, I remembered the phone ringing.
	And I kind of got perturbed and walked over to the phone.
	And who was calling?
	Pushed the button.
	And it was my voice saying, hello, Sadie.
	Oh, now that's weird.
	Yeah.
	That's really weird.
	I've done a major search to find out how is that possible?
	It is my voice saying, hello, Sadie.
	It's still on my answering machine.
	I even put it on my 16 track recorder.
	I'm a musician, so I don't know how or why I'm looking for an answer.
	Boy, I'm afraid I can't even begin to give it to you, and I doubt Dean can either, but that is fascinating, Dean.
	Yeah, it's a very interesting event.
	I mean, it reminds me of what physical mediums claim to be able to do.
	Spirit photography, electronic voice phenomena, that sort of thing.
	Right.
	Sometimes very intense intentions will cause electronic equipment to somehow get it.
	The information will be impressed somehow.
	I don't know how many cases are of high credibility, but your case sounds certainly like that.
	It sounds very interesting.
	Dean, I wouldn't have suggested this to you otherwise, but you know, you're going to do some research in this area, so I would say look into EVPs, electronic voice phenomena.
	It's rather convincing.
	I wonder if you have ever looked at it, if you know anything about it at all.
	Yeah, I have looked at it and of course you as a radio guy are certainly aware of all of the ways that you can get these messages by artifact.
	I participated with a person from the UK who wanted to use our electromagnetically shielded room to try an experiment in order to get rid of outside radio waves.
	And he claimed that he did get messages, even inside the shielded room.
	We're talking about a solid steel 2,000 pound Faraday cage.
	I couldn't hear what he was able to hear.
	So it either means I'm not trained to be able to hear these messages.
	I mean, they weren't like crystal clear, but he claimed that he could.
	So I don't know.
	For me, the jury is still out when it comes to EVP.
	Okay.
	Don, Seattle, Washington.
	You're on with Dean Radin.
	Good morning.
	Yes, good morning, Mr. Radin.
	There was a couple gentlemen who predicted 9-1-1.
	One of the men was assassinated afterwards.
	I don't know his name.
	And the other guy was Alex Jones.
	And they said, if there is an outside threat like a bin Laden, we know who to blame.
	And we know the government wanted to blow up buildings.
	They wanted to use planes.
	They claimed that 11 million of us were going to die.
	And I just want to know how you feel about Alex Jones and this man predicting 9-1-1.
	Okay, well I wasn't aware he did predict it.
	And Dean, do you know anything at all?
	Yeah, no, I don't know about Alex Jones or these predictions.
	Right, got you.
	Albany, New York I guess.
	Michael, you're on the air with Dean Radin.
	Good morning.
	Good morning, sir.
	I listen to you all all the time and it's really interesting.
	I'd like to ask Dean Radin if by chance he has ever used your ...type of energy healing, much like I used to, which is point at a certain storm, like I did with Katrina and Ike, on the television screen, and seeing as how they were going towards Carp of Christie, I didn't want it to go that direction, so I pointed at it, touched the screen, and said a short little redirectional petition to the source, and they immediately turned.
	Okay, let's hold it right there.
	The large-scale intent experiments like producing rain or like turning a hurricane or redirecting a hurricane, something of that sort, Dean.
	What do you have to say about that?
	I mean, for example, the experiments I did where you produce rain, impossibly produce rain, and you don't do it once, you do it many times.
	You're working on a kind of a strange system anyway, the weather system.
	Does it make sense that intent, strong intent, can affect such systems?
	Well, if you believe in chaos theory, and I think we can, then the flapping of a butterfly's wings will eventually create a hurricane.
	In other words, a very, very tiny initial effect can have a huge outcome.
	Yes.
	And there's this huge, long history of shamanism, much of which had to do with creating rain or getting rid of rain.
	The question then is, can we do this under a systematic, scientific way?
	I know plenty of people who talk about these kinds of things, of directing hurricanes here and changing the weather and so on, but I don't know of very many systematic studies to be able to rule out all of the other possible variables.
	I would say this is yet another area that deserves some serious study, but I don't think, at least I'm not aware of any publications yet on that topic.
	Well, part of what scared me, as I think you know, is I began to imagine all sorts of unintended consequences.
	In other words, at some point, I guess I started out sort of, gee, this will be fun, let's do this.
	And then I started to realize, Well, suppose, for example, we do either stall or redirect a hurricane in some manner that saves one city but puts it out at sea for a longer period of time and allows it to grow into a Category 5 that then slams into a city and kills a bunch of people.
	So, unintended consequences.
	It's a very important point and the whole point that That we need to study these things in more detail so we know what we're dealing with, so that we at least have some sense of what the consequences may be.
	Because you're absolutely right.
	Yeah.
	The consequence right now is we're completely out of time.
	The program just is ending.
	Not fast.
	My friend, it has been such a pleasure having you back on the show.
	Everybody, go out and grab the new paperback, The Conscious Universe, by Dean Radin.
	Dean, thank you for being here.
	Thanks, Art, and I hope your cold gets better very quickly.
	There's a number of people working on that, I'm sure.
	Good night, Dean, and thank you.
	All right, folks, that's it.
	Boy, that went quickly.
	They say that, I guess, when you're having fun, it just flies by, and it really did.
	So, from the other side of the world, I'm Art Bell in Manila, capital city of the Philippines.

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