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May 20, 2007 - Art Bell

02:36:22

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - The Watchers and Tranhumanism - Tom Horn

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	From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be in the world's time zones, each and every one covered like a blanket by this program, Coast to Coast AM.
	I'm Art Bell, it's my honor and privilege to be escorting you through the weekend.
	Coming up next hour, Tom Horn will be here.
	He'll be talking about Stargates.
	What an interesting topic, huh?
	So, we've got that ahead, and of course, unscreened open lines for the remainder of this hour, the bigger part of it anyway.
	Looking at the world news, bombings kill seven U.S.
	soldiers in Iraq.
	Every world newscast, every U.S.
	newscast, Leads with this story every time, or one just like it.
	Bombings killed seven U.S.
	soldiers in Baghdad and a southern city, according to the U.S.
	military on Sunday.
	And the country's Sunni vice president spoke out against a proposed oil law, clouding the future of a key benchmark for assuring continued U.S.
	support for the government.
	Six of the soldiers were killed Saturday in a bombing in western Baghdad According to the military in a statement, their interpreter also killed.
	Now that's interesting.
	That's really interesting.
	Sunni Vice President spoke out against a proposed oil law clouding the future of a key benchmark for assuring continued U.S.
	support for the government.
	Hmm.
	A sniper sprayed dozens of bullets on a courthouse.
	Another head shaker.
	Killing a police officer, wounding a sheriff's deputy and a civilian, then apparently killed a caretaker, then himself, Sunday, in a nearby church.
	According to police, the investigators say they believe the shooter deliberately fired into an emergency dispatch center inside the county courthouse late Saturday.
	All this in Moscow, Idaho, to lure people into the line of fire.
	The officer was killed as he rushed to the courthouse.
	The deputy helped pull out the officer on the way before being shot.
	God, these shootings, people who decide they're going to take themselves out, as many of their fellow citizens as they can, it's just indecipherable for me.
	Israel's Air Force fired a missile at a house in Gaza City late Sunday, killing at least eight people.
	Residents and hospital officials said the strike followed a decision to step up attacks against Islamic militants in response to rocket fire from Gaza.
	Israeli air attacks on militant targets earlier in the day killed another three Palestinians.
	The attack on the house was the deadliest airstrike since Israel began reprisals on Tuesday for rocket barrages.
	Iran urged Arab countries on Sunday to support their nuclear program, but they received a rather cool reception at the World Economic Forum, particularly from U.S.
	allies worried about Iran's growing regional influence.
	Iranian officials said separately the nuclear program was moving ahead of schedule, and that the country would not suspend uranium enrichment despite the threat of a third set of U.N.
	sanctions.
	Gee, those really work, huh?
	This is kind of a sad story.
	Route 66 Motels and Endangered Species.
	The Riviera Courts Motel is crumbling away and nobody seems to care anymore.
	Once a stop along incredible Route 66, the 2400 mile Neon Carnival that connected hundreds of communities from Chicago to L.A.
	This late 1930s Mission Revival is just a weather-worn building on the side of a country road now in far northeast Oklahoma.
	Next door, soybean farmers Richard and Rosemary Willard watch the place deteriorate from their front porch.
	When I was young, well, of course, there was a TV show called Route 66.
	You remember that?
	And I hitchhiked that road, oh my gosh, several times and I guess it's just about gone and the artifacts that littered Route 66 just about gone also.
	Kind of sad in a way to be replaced now by big un-scenery like four or is it six or eight lane interstates that zoom you across the country at light speed or just under.
	I'll miss Route 66.
	How about the rest of you?
	Anyway, in a moment, we'll look at some of the rest of the news.
	Researchers have begun tracking a huge dust plume they believe might affect clouds and weather across thousands of miles while playing a role in global warming as well.
	Scientists are using high-tech aircraft to study plumes of airborne dust and pollutants that originate in Asia and then make the journey to North America.
	I've seen it myself here.
	The plumes are among the largest such events on Earth.
	The first mission will be launched in late April.
	When these weather patterns begin in Asia, and the study will continue for about two months, while many particles in the plumes, such as sulfates, cool the planet by blocking solar radiation from reaching Earth, other particles such as black carbon can have a warming effect.
	Warming in the coming decades will strongly be influenced by how many particle emissions change, particularly in Asia.
	I remember waking up one day here in the desert, and there was a kind of a An orangey tint to the atmosphere.
	It was very hazy.
	And this went on for days.
	And the weathermen were asked questions.
	The local weathermen were scratching their heads about what it could possibly be.
	Turned out it came from Mongolia.
	A dust storm in Mongolia that had crossed all the way over and was just polluting our atmosphere.
	It is a small world.
	Beyond the security checkpoint at the National Aeronautics and Space Administration's Ames Research Center at the southern end of San Francisco Bay, a small group gathered in November for a conference on the topic of managing solar radiation.
	The real subject was much bigger.
	How to save the planet from the effects of global warming.
	There was very little talk.
	Among the two dozen scientists and other specialists about carbon taxes, alternative energy, or the usual remedies suggested, many of the scientists were impatient with such schemes.
	Some were simply calling for international cooperation of policies and lifestyle changes needed to curb greenhouse gas emissions.
	Others had concluded the world's politicians and bureaucrats aren't up to the job.
	And so, they believe it's time now to consider radical measures, perhaps a technological quick fix for global warming.
	Mitigation is not what's happening, it's not going to happen, according to physicist Lowell Wood, who declared at the NASA conference, actually he was a star there I guess, where he served as one of the Pentagon's chief weapons designers and threat analysts, He reportedly enjoys the Dr. Evil nickname bestowed by his critics.
	The time has come, he said, for an intelligent elimination of undesired heat from the biosphere by technical ways and means, which he asserted could be achieved for a tiny fraction of the cost of the bureaucratic suppression of CO2.
	His engineering approach, he boasted, would provide instant climate gratification.
	He'd be an interesting guy to interview.
	Would advance several ideas to fix the Earth's climate, including building up Arctic sea ice to make it function like a planetary air conditioner to in effect suck heat in from the mid-latitude heat bath.
	A surprisingly practical way of achieving this, he said, would be to use large artillery pieces to shoot as much as a million tons of highly reflective sulfate aerosols, or specifically engineered nanoparticles, into the Arctic stratosphere to deflect the sun's rays.
	Delivering up to a million tons of material via artillery would require a constant bombardment, basically declaring war on the stratosphere.
	Alternatively, a fleet of B-747 crop dusters could deliver the particles by flying continuously around the Arctic Circle, or a 25 kilometer long sky hose could be tethered to a military super blimp high above the planet's surface to pump reflective particles into the atmosphere.
	Now, I'm not saying that these are good ideas, but I sure would like to hear more about them.
	So if we can get Mr. Wood or anybody else who thinks these ideas are practical and actually will work.
	Ooh, I want to interview him.
	It is not just a TV show.
	This from Whitley Strieber's Unknown Country.
	It's true, psychics really do help the police solve crimes.
	In NewsMonster.com, Danny Penman writes, quote, the Daily Mail has learned that the police are increasingly turning to psychics and mediums for help in their battle against crime.
	Sources in the National Criminal Intelligence Service say that officers turn to mediums to help them solve the more difficult cases.
	There's even a database containing the names of official psychics that officers can tap into 24 hours a day.
	I wonder if they have to call a 900 number.
	Just a joke.
	Reports from Canada are coming in as usual.
	But in one province, UFO sightings are way up for this time of the year.
	A massive 73 written sightings, a number of telephone interviews, places the total for Ontario to a whopping 81 cases as of May 15, 2007, to come into UFO Research, which is located in Houston, British Columbia, and UFO Info, located in the United Kingdom.
	A large number of UFO reports came in during the months of January and February, but it was in March when a flurry of fireball sightings were reported.
	Then an unexpected huge number of cases were received directly after the fireball meteor event.
	Witnesses are still writing up and sending in some amazing cases, such as the recent triangular UFO sighting, which took place in Ottawa, Ontario, where multicolored lights were moving around in all directions.
	If that wasn't enough of an amazing event, it flew a massive triangular craft witnessed by three people who drew up an excellent diagram of the thing.
	In a collision...
	Of 21st century science and decades-old conspiracy theories, a research team that includes a former top FBI scientist is challenging the bullet analysis used by the government to conclude that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone in assassinating President John F. Kennedy in 1963.
	The evidence used to rule out a second assassin is fundamentally flawed.
	The conclusion of a new article in the Annals of Applied Statistics, written by former FBI lab a metallurgist William A. Tobin and Texas A&M University
	researchers Cliff Spiegelman and William James.
	The researchers' re-analysis involved new statistical calculations and a modern chemical analysis of bullets from
	the same batch that Oswald is reported to have used.
	They reached no conclusion about whether more than one gunman was involved, but they did urge that authorities conduct a
	new and complete forensic re-analysis of the five bullet fragments left from the assassination 44 years ago.
	We'll see.
	Listen everybody, I'd just love to talk to you, so here's the way we get it done.
	You enter in through one of the following portals.
	West of the Rockies, listen carefully, 800-618-8255.
	East of the Rockies, 800-825-5033.
	800-618-8255.
	East of the Rockies, 800-825-5033.
	Unscreened, open lines, that means turn your radio off the instant I tell you you're on the air.
	First time callers, area code.
	Wildcard line callers, we have quite a few of those, area code 818-501-4109.
	And if you're outside the country, we can accommodate you at 800-893-0903.
	quite a few of those. Area code 818-501-4109 and if you're outside the country, we can
	accommodate you at 800-893-0903. Just get hold of your operator and tell her you want
	to dial that toll-free international number, 800-893-0903.
	All right, let's go west of the Rockies and say, hello, you're on the air.
	you Hello?
	Yeah, this is Steve calling from Reno.
	Yeah, Steve, hi.
	Boy, I finally got through.
	I don't know how many times I've been trying to get ahold of you.
	It's always a busy signal.
	Well, here you are.
	Yeah, I got a question.
	You interviewed Bob Bigelow several weeks ago.
	That's right.
	But I didn't hear anything mentioned about his America's X Prize, you know, for the $50 million.
	I'm not sure where he is in that race, if he wants to be in that race or anything else.
	Well, he was offering something himself, from what I've heard.
	No, I don't think so.
	He's wrapping most of his money into his Space Everett, which is totally non-trivial.
	I think that's absorbing most of his funds right now.
	So I'm not aware that he's offering a prize, nor in a race for one.
	Well, not a race per se, but from what I understood, he was, you know, like the Ansari X Prize, it was, you know, everywhere around the world people could enter.
	Mr. Bigelow was wanting to do something just, you know, domestic.
	I think he would like to see a prize offered, but I don't believe he's offering one.
	I thought, because I could have sworn last year or something, he was offering something, you know, for an actual orbital flight.
	No, sir.
	Not that I'm aware of.
	Sure.
	You know, you're talking about the global warming and stuff.
	I remember a few weeks ago, I saw on the History Channel, they talk about the, in the Corn Belt, where they grow all that corn.
	And I have a little blurb saying that 4,000 gallons of water is transpired from every
	acre of corn out there in the Ogallala Aquifer, which is probably going to suck that dry.
	And that's what I'm figuring is causing most of the global warming there, because water
	vapor is a big greenhouse gas.
	And of course, even when it rains in the Midwest, it doesn't replenish everything that we pull
	out.
	They were talking about carbon dioxide.
	Carbon dioxide is heavier than the atmosphere, so it's going to stay pretty much, you know.
	Now, they're claiming carbon dioxide is the main problem that we have.
	And I will continue to have experts on, but I don't think there's a whole lot of debate about it anymore.
	I think that most mainstream scientists are getting behind the concept that what we're putting into the atmosphere is doing what we're beginning to observe here on the ground and in the air around us.
	I think that argument is pretty much closing off.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
	Hello, Art.
	Hi.
	Where are you calling from, sir?
	Hello?
	Hello, is this Art?
	That's me!
	Hi, Art.
	My name is Mike.
	I'm from Evansville.
	You were talking about the FBI analysis of the lead in the bullets.
	That's right.
	Earlier?
	Yeah.
	That's actually been debunked several times, that the lead batch analysis is different from batch to batch.
	They can do some other cool things with Checking the small marks made on a bullet or a shell casing that are ejected or fired from a gun.
	Right.
	To do that, they need the original firearm.
	That science has been debunked several times, and there are some experts that do testify on behalf of defendants from time to time.
	I don't remember the name of the organization that has done that research, but it is very conclusive that, you know, just because a bullet came from batch A1, It doesn't mean it couldn't have come from Batch C2.
	I hear you.
	Yeah, I'm far from an expert on that.
	And I think long after you and I are long gone, sir, they're going to still be debating that assassination.
	I agree.
	Thank you.
	I certainly appreciate the call, though.
	Anything else?
	That's all I had to add.
	All right.
	Thank you very much for the call and take care.
	Yeah, that's going to go on forever.
	A few weeks ago, I thought it might be kind of interesting And I renew that interest right now in sort of making a, I don't know, a top ten conspiracy list of all time.
	Where would you think the Kennedy assassination now would rate?
	Where do you think 9-11 would rate as compared to that?
	Anybody doing any research there?
	International Line, you're on the air, hi.
	Hello.
	Hello, turn your radio off please and tell me where you're calling from.
	I'm calling from Toronto, Canada.
	Toronto.
	Okay, sir.
	Not a lot of time before the break.
	What's up?
	I just wanted to let you know that I was camping about three months ago up in near Orillia, Ontario.
	Yes, sir.
	And we saw Sasquatch.
	Sasquatch?
	Yes.
	Close up?
	We saw Bigfoot.
	Yeah, I've got that.
	Close up?
	Oh, yes.
	Pretty close up.
	We walked up on him by surprise.
	Here, I thought you were going to tell me about a UFO sighting or something, and you're telling me you saw Sasquatch.
	Any photographs?
	No, no photographs.
	Just too quick.
	Once he heard us coming up on him, he was just gone like a flash of light.
	Well, when you say we, you and who else?
	My two sons, Jonathan and Jordan.
	Really?
	And their ages?
	17 and 14.
	17 and 14.
	And so all three of you saw this.
	Yeah, it was amazing.
	He was about, I swear, eight feet tall.
	Uh-huh.
	Dark reddish brownish hair, long nails.
	But we just saw that like for about five seconds and then he was just, it was like he had wings.
	Like he had wings, meaning he virtually disappeared?
	Yeah, within, you know.
	Like he had wings or he actually flew away?
	It was like in a blink of an eye.
	Not literally flu, but I mean... Got it.
	Disappeared.
	Alright, well there are many people who think that Sasquatch has a paranormal aspect to it.
	That this animal, whatever it is, does have some sort of paranormal, and that's the only way you can explain what, for example, that gentleman just said, that he was there one second and virtually disappeared the next second.
	So it's possible Perhaps he came through some sort of stargate.
	We'll be talking about that tonight.
	Good morning!
	I'm Art Bell.
	Here I am.
	I want to remind everybody that, tentatively, Aaron is going to give birth to Asia Rain Bell June 1st, probably about noon or noon-thirty, something like that.
	Twelve or twelve-thirty in the afternoon.
	Now that's the plan!
	But God, I guess, has his own way.
	In fact, Paul in Marina, California reminds me Carl Sandburg said, a baby is God's opinion that the world should go on.
	And I guess I kind of look at it that way too.
	You have a lot of ups and downs in life.
	Some of us very severe ups and downs and all you can do when you get down is look and think And proceed forward as best you can.
	There's one other option, but it's not a really good one, so life must go on, and I agree with Mr. Sandberg.
	A baby is God's opinion, the world should go on, and so be it.
	We'll be right back!
	Remember, when I answer the phone, tell you you're on the air, reach over and turn that radio off right away.
	Let's go east of the Rockies, and I'll say you're on the air.
	Hi Art, this is Tony.
	Hello Tony.
	Yeah, I'm from Galax, Virginia.
	I called you last week.
	My battery went dead.
	I see.
	Yeah.
	I was wanting to call you tonight to ask you if you know anything about the Save Internet Radio bill.
	Save Internet Radio?
	Yes.
	Well, I know that Internet Radio is having a lot of trouble with various Taxes and fees that people are trying to levy on it for content.
	I know, I know.
	It's the same reason, sir, that a lot of radio stations choose not to stream on the web, because they make these...
	Crazy assumptions about how many people are listening and then BMI and ASCAP and all the rest of them just levy a gigantic payment on them that can't be supported.
	Yeah, I understand.
	I mean, I'm kind of in that business.
	My business, we have to pay ASCAP fees because we play live music at our shop that we own.
	Sure.
	But the reason I was asking is I know a lot of your listeners like I listen to your show The only way this is going to get settled, sir, is when they come up with a realistic way of measuring what the actual audience is for any given internet stream.
	Yeah.
	Well, I just wonder, because they're going to pass a bill, they're trying to pass a bill, to either stop it or not stop it, June 15th.
	I would encourage your listeners to call their congressman to say, please save internet radio.
	Well, one thing you can do is internet talk.
	You're not going to get levied for that, so why not consider doing talk on the internet?
	They're not going to send you a bill for that.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Half of what I listen to is talk anyway.
	Well, it's a lot more interesting.
	You know, I've said this before.
	Music radio is fine.
	I have no argument with music.
	I dearly love it.
	All my early years in radio were in music radio.
	But I guess I outgrew it.
	Not the love of music.
	I still dearly love music.
	But not as a constant diet.
	We've talked about this.
	Traveling out across the country, you can tap your feet to the beat only so long and after a while it becomes More of a sleep inducer than it does keeping you awake.
	Talk radio, on the other hand, engages the mind in a story.
	And so you sit there, sort of waiting for the next chapter.
	Your brain is engaged and you're awake.
	And that's good when you're behind the wheel.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hello.
	Hello, sir.
	Turn your radio off, please.
	I want to know if the Earth's getting bigger, because all these trees and growing and everything.
	You want to know if the Earth is getting bigger?
	Yeah, because of over a thousand years all these trees growing and cutting them down and they keep putting it in.
	I want to know if the earth is getting bigger.
	I don't think so.
	Why don't you think so?
	We got people dying, burying them in the ground.
	We got trees growing.
	So the earth got to be getting bigger.
	Well, you know that part of the burial thing where they say dust to dust?
	Yeah, I know.
	I got my father in my back seat.
	He's in a little bitty box.
	Okay, well, there you go.
	In other words, dust to dust.
	That which is created on the earth goes back to it.
	So, no, I don't think that because we're burying people and because trees are growing and or whatever, That the Earth is actually getting bigger.
	Although some scientists, I'm sure, will come along and prove me wrong somehow or another.
	But pretty much the same size.
	Satellites, I think, verify that on a fairly regular basis.
	West of the Rockies, you are on the air.
	Hello, Art Bell.
	Hi.
	I have wanted to talk to you for a long time.
	I want to make three comments.
	Number one, I wish you were on every night.
	George is OK, but you're much superior to him.
	Well, look, we all have different styles.
	And number two?
	I wanted to ask you, a few months ago you had a caller on that purported to be abducted by aliens any number of times.
	In fact, you were so interested in him that you even kept him on like an extra hour.
	Oh, yes.
	You seem to have somebody that could positively back that up.
	Did you ever talk to that person?
	No, I've not talked to the person who can back it up, but I'm sure in a future interview, I believe I requested that, so we'll do it.
	I would like to hear that.
	And then number three, I want to say that global warming, that they've proven that the increase of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is a precursor to a new ice age.
	Oh well.
	And they've pretty much proven that now.
	That's solid science.
	That's solid science.
	So you think there's a new ice age coming?
	I think that there's at least a mini ice age, yes.
	And where are you located again?
	Right now I'm in Barstow, California.
	Barstow.
	Marceau happens to be one of the hottest places on Earth.
	I don't know.
	I just came from Las Vegas.
	That was one of the hottest places on Earth.
	It absolutely is.
	So, what do you think another 10 degrees would do to Vegas in the summer?
	Make it a lot more uncomfortable.
	It sure would.
	Degrees would be unsustainable.
	I mean, if the Earth's temperature does rise, it's only going to be 2 or 3 degrees.
	But that would be enough to do significant Damage to crops worldwide.
	It sure would.
	And I think that's the direction we're headed.
	I don't think there, you know, the old theory two or three decades ago was that we were about to go into another ice age.
	They've simply revised that and I think with solid scientific evidence have proven that indeed we're in the middle instead of global warming.
	Now that may be attaching itself to a natural cycle of some sort or another.
	I can't deny that because I can't prove it one way or the other.
	But I think clearly we're on the rise.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Going once.
	Yes, I'm here.
	Okay.
	Thank you for turning off your radio.
	And what is your first name and where are you?
	My name's John and I'm in Victorville.
	Victorville.
	Gee, not all that far from Barstow.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	I was wondering if you heard about The planes out up in towards Hellendale up in the desert area up there.
	I've worked up there a lot and I've seen the graveyard shift and I've seen planes that come up and then all of a sudden they disappear and then the next thing you know they're flying out again.
	The answer is yes.
	I mean, this whole area, this whole desert area, sir, is infested with all kinds of secret stuff.
	So, you know, if you sit out here, if you're, as you are, probably a driver through the night sky in this area, you're going to see a lot of weird things.
	A lot of unidentifiable things.
	Some of them probably are secret military craft being tested.
	Um, just over the hill from me is the infamous Area 51.
	So, we see a lot of things in this guy out here that are unusual.
	Every now and then you're treated, or maybe that's the wrong word.
	Every now and then you get to see something close up and really personal, and that's the kind of thing you don't forget for the rest of your life.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Yes.
	Hi.
	What is your first name, please?
	Andrew.
	Andrew, welcome.
	Go ahead, Andrew.
	Yeah.
	Proceed.
	Oh, uh, let me tell you the solution to all the problems.
	All problems?
	Right, all the world's problems.
	Pretty big reach, but go ahead.
	Stop humans from reproducing.
	Actually, not bad, Andrew.
	I suppose if we stopped reproducing or At least at the rate we're currently reproducing, it would solve an awful lot of problems, wouldn't it?
	Well, yeah.
	If you look at higher social organisms, they tend to either consume their entire environment or self-destruct.
	And eventually humans will stop existing and the world will be a better place.
	Well, I don't know about the world being a better place, that's subjective, if we're not here to participate in it, but I do agree with you, actually, that the rate of increase, the number of people in the world, there's just too many of us.
	And that all these problems, or many, you know, he said all, I don't know about all, but many of these problems that we're currently experiencing would be Not so severe, or not apparent at all, if the population of the world was, let us say, half of what it is now, or even a quarter of what it is now.
	So, I can't disagree with that.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Art, how you doing, buddy?
	I'm well, sir.
	I'm questioning you as to whether or not you ever followed up on the Bones dilemma.
	I'm sorry, not Bones, it was Bugs, the guy who...
	Bugs!
	Yes, we did a show that included Bugs, not more than what, a couple of months ago at
	the most.
	And I've not received any contact from anybody who wanted to make Bugs a deal.
	There was a gentleman as you recall if you heard that latest show who was actually I think It's my observation that he was shaken up severely by the fact that Buggs was on the show and described what he did.
	I thought the fellow was going to have a heart attack.
	Yes, he got quite emotional and I thought that for a Bigfoot researcher that he would have been more excited in trying to get with the guy and go dig up the bones and make the big find of the century.
	Yes, but the tact that my guest was taking was sort of a protective kind of lecture about Bigfoot, and hearing what he heard was, I don't know, it was the equivalent of somebody who picks up garbage along a highway hearing about somebody who just dumped a 747 load of junk on the highway.
	You know, he was pretty shaken, so I didn't really expect to hear from him, and I did not.
	Okay.
	Well, thank you, Art.
	You've got a great show.
	Keep it up.
	You're very welcome.
	Take care.
	Let's jump to, let's see, East of the Rockies.
	You're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Yeah, Art.
	Yes?
	I have a couple of things you might be interested in.
	Sure.
	I am the child of older parents, and I have a C-section.
	And you've just had a C-section?
	I had one.
	She's 21 years old.
	But I was the child of older parents.
	Yes.
	I grew up with my, well my dad was almost 70 when I graduated from high school and had an emergency c-section 21 years ago and I did fine.
	It was scary so you are very much better off having it scheduled.
	Well, Erin is only four feet, eight inches tall.
	So, early on in the pregnancy, when her OBGYN doctor, who by the way was Ramona's doctor and offered to be the doctor for Erin as well, he took a look at her and said, why don't we do a C-section?
	You know, it was pretty obvious.
	She's a little girl and my goodness, her tummy's pretty good size now, right now.
	I want to know that she will do fine.
	She will.
	Breeze through it.
	I was so scared.
	And it would have been better if they would have scheduled me.
	Now, you would have known what to expect.
	Right.
	And the pain really wasn't as bad as I had heard.
	You know, you hear stories.
	Tell her not to listen to anything or anyone.
	I would think the pain of going through full labor, particularly with a first child, would be somewhat more daunting than a C-section.
	The C-section, I had a good husband.
	I was well taken care of afterwards, and Erin will be too, I know.
	Oh, yes.
	She'll do fine.
	Okay, well thank you so very much.
	We're, you know, we're, I guess like any parent, you know, I'm very nervous, and Erin's nervous, but I think all will be well.
	As a matter of fact, she's at the stage of her pregnancy now where we're going to the doctor every week.
	And during the ninth month, that's what you do.
	So we've got to be up fairly early in the morning to yet have another go see.
	But so far, so good.
	Nothing wrong at all.
	It's been other than getting kicked frequently.
	In the ninth month, they're pretty active.
	And I know where the foot is.
	I know where the butt is.
	I know where the head is.
	It's sometimes kind of unusual.
	I mean, you look at the tummy and you can see it shift around, kind of like a scene out of Alien or something.
	But it's way cool.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hello.
	This is Alex.
	Hi, Alex.
	I have a sort of invention type thing that I've been trying to get off the ground.
	It's sort of a, believe it or not, It makes energy from practically nothing.
	Without giving away your secret completely, give us some idea of how it does what it does.
	Magnetic repulsion.
	Magnetic repulsion.
	Okay.
	It's an interesting concept.
	What is it you need money for, no doubt, right?
	Do you know anybody that could help me get in touch with, uh, custom-made magnets?
	Because they need to be made a certain way, a certain shape, for it to work.
	Hmm.
	Not offhand, but, uh... No, not offhand.
	Being honest with you, I really don't... I don't know who that would be.
	Now, the answer is no.
	I really don't.
	Wow.
	I can't believe I actually got through.
	Well, you actually have.
	If you really have got something, then all I can tell you is like with any other dream, drill away at it.
	Don't give up.
	If you really think that you've got something, charge ahead.
	You'll find somebody.
	Okay.
	Alright, take care.
	That's the only way you ever get anywhere in life is...
	Just plow ahead.
	You've just got to keep going.
	And if you have a dream, if you have something you want to do, don't give up.
	If you truly believe in it, it can happen.
	East of the Rockies, once again, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hello, Art.
	Hi.
	Hi, this is Sue from Fayetteville, North Carolina.
	How are you?
	That's my birth state.
	Just fine.
	I know it is.
	I've been through there.
	I think they should put a historical sign up.
	Oh, please.
	I want to know if you've been to see David Copperfield.
	Uh, no, I never did make it.
	He found the Fountain of Youth, he thinks.
	I think you've been in it.
	You look great.
	Oh, well, thank you.
	Yeah, I did put my, uh, picture about five minutes, uh, ten minutes or so before, uh, airtime.
	Maybe twenty.
	Right, I saw it.
	And you look very good.
	You look thirty years younger.
	Well, thank you.
	Um, I, um, I hope I'm doing okay.
	It seems like I'm doing okay.
	My back Which is the only real health problem that I've had.
	My back is, for some reason, quite a bit better.
	I lost some weight.
	That helped.
	So, thank you.
	That's great.
	Well, good luck with the baby.
	And Erin is just beautiful.
	And I think you're so lucky.
	I think she's so lucky.
	And I just wish you all the best.
	Luckier than you can ever know.
	Thank you.
	People are rarely given an opportunity to find true love twice in their lifetime.
	And I was given that opportunity at a moment when I thought that the entire universe had collapsed upon me shortly thereafter.
	And I'm very thankful for it.
	All right, it would be unfair to pick up another phone call before the top of the hour.
	Coming up at the top of the hour, a little past the top of the hour, is Tom Horn.
	And he's going to be talking about Stargates, and I think, without giving away the farm here, that he believes there are Stargates in the Middle East.
	So, we'll find out about that.
	I hope there are.
	Frankly, I hope there are Stargates.
	Entryways to and from, perhaps, another universe?
	Another dimension?
	We'll be talking about all of that and much more as we get back.
	This is Coast to Coast AM, and I'm Art Bell.
	Here I am, and away we go, I promised.
	Tom Horn, and Tom Horn it is, he's a researcher, and he's a freelance writer whose Raiders News Update reports have been referred to by writers of the LA Times Syndicate, MSNBC, Christianity Today, WorldNetDaily, White House correspondents and dozens of news magazines and press agencies about the globe.
	Tom has appeared on numerous programs worldwide.
	And once even served as national spokesperson for Cloud 10 Pictures' movie, Deceive, starring Louis Gossett Jr.
	and Judd Nelson.
	Tom's book, the, I'm going to have a hard time with this, it looks like the Armangate, is a VMI Publisher's best-selling book.
	So that's the very first question we're going to ask Tom.
	Tom, welcome to Coast to Coast AM.
	And how do we pronounce the name of that gate?
	The Armangate.
	Ahriman.
	Yes.
	Okay, Ahriman Gate.
	Okay, got it.
	Ahriman.
	That's A-H-R-I-M-A-N, right?
	That's right.
	All right.
	Tell us, if you would, Tom, since you're, I think, fairly new to the program, certainly new to me anyway.
	I guess you were on with George back in August.
	Tell us about yourself, or tell me.
	Well, first of all, Art, let me say what a privilege it is to get to be on with you.
	You know, I was actually supposed to be on coast to coast with you some years ago, and for some reason, at the last minute, Barbara Simpson stepped in and filled in for you.
	And so I don't know what happened, but anyway, this is a treat.
	And as far as me, I don't want to bore your audience too much.
	I mean, you know, my wife and I have been involved in various kinds of business and research over the years.
	Most of our adult lives, in fact, we've worked for ourselves, which is wonderful.
	We also, for about 25 years, we actually did pastor and were involved at the state level.
	Uh, with a national organization.
	And then, uh, we left them and, uh, about 10 years ago, we started the Raiders News Network, which has continued to grow.
	And of course, in fact, you've got the, the interview that I did with Jesse Marcel Jr.
	is on the front page of your website tonight.
	And, uh, the one I did yesterday with, uh, Stanton Friedman actually hit number one Google search search today.
	So anyway, we're happy about all of that.
	We also own a publishing house, Anomalous Publishing.
	That's about two years old.
	That's doing well.
	We're kind of just hand-picking who we want to publish, but we're publishing material that's, you know, it's more the metaphysical, esoteric type of information.
	And the thing that, you know, I would say that probably what my wife and I love most of all, besides each other and our kids, is this personal research into things that interest us.
	Which, of course, led to the writing of the last two books.
	The new one, Nephilim Stargates, which we're probably talking about tonight, and then the one that you mentioned, the Ahriman Gate, that came out last year.
	And that book has done very well.
	We're very happy with the way that it's done.
	It's been, I think, number 23 in the whole CBA market for more than a year.
	So, we're happy about that.
	But the new book, Nephilim Stargates, that's actually the actual science, the actual history.
	Alright, so the Ahriman Gate was fiction.
	You're saying that your new book is not fiction?
	It's not fiction, no.
	In order to write the Ahriman Gate, we had to do a significant amount of research.
	into the actual sciences of biotechnology and other things, but the curious thing I guess we could talk about tonight is where that led us in that we actually started seeing stories in ancient history that were reminding us of what we were now studying in terms of biotechnology, especially with regard to blending species.
	Either, you know, like you had, I think you had Smith on a couple nights ago with his Seeds of Deception.
	Well, that wasn't me, but that may well be.
	Congressional testimony about some of the potential problems with genetically modified crops.
	Yes, George did that, I believe.
	What's that?
	I say George did that, I believe.
	Yeah, and well, but in our interest had to do with some of the same technology, but applied to Humans, and of course because we were writing an action thriller book, you know, and the take in that book was that modern biotechnology was being used in an underground, black-budget, military-funded laboratory where essentially what they were doing was they were resurrecting Nephilim.
	And that was a novel.
	But in order to make the science sound real, the interesting thing was where it led us in terms of Discovering that there were these ancient stories about the gods who came down, and what it was that they did in terms of blending their species with both humans and animals in order to create this pathway through which they could extend themselves into our material world.
	Now, unfortunately for me, I happen to be a believer.
	And so I'm reading these old stories, you know, and many of them extra biblical texts,
	which I hold to be accounts.
	They're told in terms of mythology, but I think it was the interpretation
	of those alive at the time who were trying to make a record
	of some of the events that had actually occurred.
	And what I thought I was seeing was actually the retelling of the first uses of biotechnology
	and what had occurred.
	So it was very interesting how doing the research for a fiction book and wanting to make it believable,
	I kept turning over this leaf out of ancient history.
	And later on, I started writing an online series on the real history and the real science.
	And it became the most popular thing I had ever written.
	I was up to about 20 parts, like 200 and some pages, and finally I thought, you know what, this just needs to be turned into a book, because I've never had this kind of response.
	All right, well, before we get to that, with regard to Aramond Gate, the Aramond Gate, do you... I understand that you're saying it's fiction, but do you think that there are... How can I put this?
	Uh, that there's certain truths in that fiction that you claim you wrote.
	A lot of people write something and then, you know, for protection, they call it fiction.
	Yeah, well, certainly, Art.
	Yeah, I mean, you know, you use fiction because you kind of have to bridge the gap between point A and point B. That's right.
	I'm not quite sure how they might intersect.
	But you're right, I mean, what actually happened was, this was about 12 years ago, and I was doing some research for one of the large newspapers in the U.S.
	I was writing some research material they were using then to write a series for their newspaper, and I came across this story, and in the story was the term transgenics.
	Now this was like maybe 12, 13 years ago, maybe more.
	I had never heard of this term before.
	I didn't know what it meant.
	And I'm not a scientist.
	I'm just a researcher and just a moderately good writer at best, I guess, at the time.
	And so I'm doing this research.
	I come across this term, transgenics.
	I don't know what it means.
	I start looking up the term.
	I'm trying to get some information.
	And 12 years ago, the Internet was not nearly as good as it is now.
	So, I'm in libraries.
	I'm looking through books, you know, on science.
	I'm trying to find out anything on biotechnology, nanotechnology, cloning, transgenic science, genetic modification, and there simply was not very much that existed at the time.
	But, that year, what stuck out to me was that fully one-fourth of all federal research grants that year was going to transgenics.
	And I thought, you know, if a fourth Of all of our taxpayer dollars that are given in research from, like, DARPA, is going to transgenics, then, you know, we've got to know something about what this, what does this mean?
	Alright, for the purposes and understanding of the audience, define transgenics.
	Well, transgenics, you know, the audience is probably very familiar with the term cloning because there's so much of that going on right now.
	Of course.
	And, in fact, this week there was more news about that.
	Reproductive cloning is Like in their Ahriman Gate, the kind of reproductive cloning that we focused on was the same kind that was used to create Dolly the Sheep, which is somatic cell nuclear transfer.
	And that's where scientists transfer genetic material from the nucleus of a donor adult cell to an egg whose nucleus and therefore its genetic material has been removed.
	And that reconstructed egg, recombinant, reconstructed egg, containing the DNA from the donor cell, then, is treated with chemicals, or in the case of our book, a mild electrical current, which has the propensity of causing stem cell division.
	It jump-starts it.
	It does the same thing that sperm would do.
	And then once that cloned embryo reaches a suitable stage, it's transferred to the uterus of the female host, where it would then continue to develop until birth.
	Now, a related science of cloning is called transgenics.
	The difference between cloning somatic cell nuclear transfer and transgenics is that with transgenics, it is possible to go a step further in that you introduce a gene or genes from one species into the cellular DNA of another species.
	The gene or gene, let's say, of a snake could be inserted into the fertilized egg of a woman and become integrated into the DNA of her embryo and now, theoretically, you would have a snake human according to that application.
	Some of the publicly known experiments with transgenics, including human genes, For instance, human cancer genes being inserted in the embryos of research mice.
	And those transgenic mice then can be used to test different kinds of drug therapies to see if they might be effective on humans with cancer.
	And transgenic technology is also being tested now that inserts human genes into sheep, pigs, cattle, goats.
	Tom, I know that all of this is going on, and what you're quoting is some of the public stuff.
	We're going to take a break here, but when we get back, what I would like to ask you, think about this during the break, Tom, do you believe that some of this research, wilder research than you just quoted, is going on perhaps in underground bunkers or underground labs that the public hasn't heard a thing about.
	Your answer in a moment.
	The things that we know about transgenics that are already public, many of them that you just talked about, Tom, are one thing.
	I really do believe, Tom, that in some lab somewhere, secretly, there are miles and miles ahead of us doing things that would curl our hair if we knew about them.
	What do you think?
	Well, I think you're absolutely right.
	And since when in the history, for instance, of the United States, have they not always been probably at least two decades ahead of whatever we know?
	I mean, 12 years ago, when I first came across the term transgenics, nobody at that time, if I had said, hey, guess what, in 10 years from now, in laboratories that are funded by government agencies, both in the United States, Australia, the United Kingdom, China, and around the world, are going to be creating human embryos that are only part human, part animal, for the purposes of research, you know, people would have thought I was out of my mind.
	Today, it's just old school, and so what does that tell us about where The government might be in terms of being two decades ahead of us.
	To go from what we know to what I suspect to be true is to read the book The Aramond Gate.
	I'm not trying to sell it to anybody, but in that book we're talking about SAPOC budgets, budgets that are way beyond congressional review.
	You know this, and most of your listeners know this, there's a reason why in a government budget it costs several hundred dollars to buy a hammer.
	There's a need for the flow of an enormous amount of money that goes into budgets that are beyond congressional review.
	Most congressmen are not even aware of what's going on in some of these budgets, and even that's not a hidden fact.
	So, you take what you know, and then you extrapolate that they're at least ten years ahead of what you know.
	So you already know that DARPA and other agencies of the U.S.
	military have taken inspiration from Tolkien's Lord of the Rings, you know, this scene that is Saruman the Wizard, you know, creating his monstrous Uruk-hai to wage unending, merciless, relentless war.
	And then you look at these Billions of American tax dollars have been flowing into the Pentagon's Frankensteinian dreams of super soldiers and the extended performance warfighter programs, which are public knowledge.
	And these things not only envision injecting young men and women with different kinds of neurological and genetic concoctions to make them be able to fight all night, to control the uses of their internal organs, their brain functions, To deaden their human tendencies, the need for sleep, the fear of death, their reluctance to kill fellow human beings and all that.
	But, you know, there's been news out there for some time now that shows that they're already underway in actually working on schemes to alter the genetic code of soldiers by modifying bits of their DNA in order to fashion a new type of human specimen.
	Alright, do you think we've actually already done that, Tom?
	Uh, you know, yeah, I mean, at the risk of sounding like, uh, you know, a prophet sounds like a nut in his own day.
	But later on, he's understood to have been a futurist.
	And in keeping with the theory behind my book, The Ahriman Gate, imagine the staggering implications now of using the kind of science we already know we had.
	Let's say if If what we identify historically as Nephilim, the giants, imagine if those things had been found and that tissue with intact DNA has already been found.
	I don't think anybody would doubt that even our own government would use the extracted
	organisms from that material to experiment behind the scene on creating homoephilim.
	And if people believe that those records of lore are true or at least partly true, then
	that kind of a discovery could have either already been made or will be made someday.
	When it's made, I mean, since when has our government ever restrained their uses of technology
	to make application behind the scene?
	They would not only experiment on something like that, they've experimented on their own
	citizens and then they admit to it many years later when the culprits are beyond their culpability
	and can't be tried for it.
	We know that they would.
	And by the way, we already now have cloning methods that are being perfected.
	And we're talking about bringing back Tasmanian tigers and woolly mammoths and other extinct creatures.
	So the technology already exists to do some of this stuff.
	But it wouldn't just be bringing back something that's been dead for a long time.
	I think that the temptation would be beyond them not to want to try to blend that matter with humans in the pursuit of creating some kind of superhumans.
	And through transhumanism, there's already in the public forum a move towards creating law that will allow people to be able to enhance themselves to
	the point that they're no longer human at all.
	And if people think I'm out on a limb, they can do Google searches at
	Google and Yahoo.
	Stanford University earlier this year hosted the first ever human enhancement
	human tech conference. They had 200 of the leading futurists,
	transhumanist, legal scholars, bioethicists at Stanford University talking about what
	will be the legal rights of post- humans in the near future.
	Shortly after that, Oxford University hosted a similar conference.
	Other universities have done the same thing.
	Trinity.
	And then, the Birkbeck Law School in the United Kingdom, which teaches future CSI, crime scene analysis, for law enforcement students.
	Last year, in 2006, they actually added a class called Interrogating the Post-Human Subject.
	They weren't talking about dead humans, they were talking about post-humans.
	And the whole idea being that everything we know about crime scene analysis will not work in the future when you are trying, let's say, to track down something that's part human, part wolf.
	I mean, if you've got a serial wolf-man rapist, Everything you know about crime scene analysis is out the door.
	And that's how serious all of our leading law schools are about this.
	It's going to happen.
	The President's on council.
	You think they're actually doing this right now, Tom?
	I think that in the military we're already doing it, yes.
	But the interesting thing about... Hold the interesting thing, Tom.
	We're at a break point.
	We've got to do it right here.
	Tom Horne is my guest.
	Stargates.
	Human beings that are mixed with something else.
	This should be quite a program.
	I'm Art Bell.
	You know, I'm probably not as deeply a religious person as I could be, but I do have certain core beliefs that, you know, sustain me.
	And one of them absolutely says to me that when we start combining human beings, and let us say wolves or any other species, and start turning them out for I don't know.
	Purposes of warfare or enhancing human ability to be able to fight the better fight, then we've crossed a line from which we will not come back.
	I could be all wrong about this.
	Maybe I'm just stodgy and getting old, but that one seems pretty clear to me.
	Tom Horn will be back in just a moment.
	Alright, welcome back, Tom.
	You know, there's something about this that really raises the hair on the back of my neck when I hear about it.
	Part human, part wolf, part human, part anything in order to achieve some edge in warfare or for whatever the reason.
	It just goes against everything I think I believe in.
	Well, and there's reasons to believe that this happened before in history, and that there are lessons that can be learned, and that there may be something far scarier than DARPA that is interested in the merging of the species.
	Okay, let's talk about that.
	Actually, you know, I promote this as a program about Stargates.
	The term Stargate may mean a lot of different things to different people.
	When you use the term Stargate, what do you mean by it?
	Well, certainly, I mean, some of the people listening to this show tonight, and they probably read over at Coast to Coast, we're going to be talking about Stargates.
	First of all, I'm a researcher, I'm not a scientist, and so my ability to dialogue about the possibility of such things as quantum physics, or even Einsteinian physics for that matter, is very limited.
	When it comes to things like wormholes, which, you know, Alan Holt first started talking about field reconnaissance space-time tunneling back in the 1970s, that became more commonly referred to as wormholes, and the whole idea that That there are these intelligences out there that are so far advanced in terms of their science that they could manipulate wormhole technology.
	Now, I believe that that's a real possibility.
	I don't have no problem with that at all.
	It's a very, it's kind of a nuts and bolts approach to explaining how Stargate technology Might work through advanced science.
	You must have some reason for believing in this.
	What is it?
	Why do you believe that this may exist?
	On the other hand, and both, of course, could exist.
	I mean, I do believe that there could be advanced technology and advanced beings who are capable of manipulating that technology through a nuts and bolts approach.
	I believe that at least in addition to that, there could be something else that's more metaphysical.
	First of all, we started this program out with me saying that I was astounded by coming across this material when we were doing the research for the book The Aramond Gate, because I was trying to find information about biotechnology, but of course my research is leading me to this question about the blending of species, which led back to mythology. And
	here I am, I've got a doctorate in divinity, and I'm this guy who thinks in terms of
	traditional, conservative, almost – well, I won't even say it. So I'm trained in a certain
	kind of approach, a certain kind of discipline to interpret mythology as being nothing more
	than mythology.
	But the more I'm looking at it, the more I'm thinking, but what if something was really there?
	I mean, what if something actually really happened, and that you have these different cultures around the world, civilizations, that are speaking to us of a time when the god came down and they mixed their species with
	the human race and it was the methodology
	what appeared to be a record of advanced science what for the life of me look
	like traces of modern biotechnology wherein a syrian, egyptian, greek, other great mythologies
	these gods in order to materialize, in order to create for themselves
	a three-dimensional expression for some reason it seemed to require the need to blend
	different species in order to create this pathway, this portal
	this stargate is not a really good term right there but pathway portal
	in order to extend themselves into our material world and the record appeared to
	be a real record in other words if i was if i was an attorney or even a private investigator and i
	was representing somebody in a court of law and i came across this many
	different eyewitnesses from different points of view all telling me the same story
	i would think I had a preponderance of evidence.
	I would think I could make a case!
	And so, I'm looking at all these records.
	For instance, such ancient texts as the book of Jasher, which is referred to in the Bible, in the book of Joshua 10, it's also in 2 Samuel 1.
	A reference to it, and it said that after the fallen angels had went in unto the daughters of men, after that, the sons of men taught the mixture of animals, of one species with the other, in order to provoke the Lord.
	And that was obviously a direct reference to what was happening in Genesis 6, also what was happening in Greek mythology, and then where this took me, because I also have And I don't know if we have time to talk about this tonight, but I also have something that is a family.
	I grew up in a family where there was a phenomenon that was occurring.
	And later on, when I was a pastor, I always had these things in the back of my mind that I was trying to make sense out of.
	What kind of phenomenon?
	Well, I guess the reason I brought it up there is because as I was looking at these ancient gods, this whole idea that they were interested These watchers come down, and they are interested in human DNA.
	And they use it for their own purposes, part of which has to do with creating for themselves some method by which they can extend themselves into our three-dimensional world.
	But from that point until now, we also have this whole thing in ufology and alien abduction that's been recognized by the best researchers, Jacques Vallée, Jean Kiel, all these guys, See that whatever is going on, if you give any credibility at all to the alien abduction phenomenon, part of that experience includes the need to be able to harvest human DNA, or what Jacques Vallée called vital energy, associated with three-dimensional life forms, a kind of construct material.
	That it appears that maybe, maybe this is what they're doing, they're using it to create for themselves incarnation into our reality.
	Now, I tell people, because I'm still very orthodox in many ways, and varied about, and people have asked me, they've said, well, you know, how do you reconcile some of these issues with the idea that God alone can create?
	And I've said, well, it's very clear that if you're orthodox in these ways, that It's easy to reconcile the fact that the Creator alone possesses the power to speak, that's the Hebrew word haya, to speak and to call raw atomic or nuclear energy into specified molecular form.
	He alone has that power.
	But after that fact, after that creation has occurred, then obviously a scientist can manipulate matter.
	And these super intelligences, whoever they are, whatever they do, would be able to manipulate that matter, the gods.
	In order to construct these three-dimensional expressions.
	And that would also explain a lot of things.
	Why animals and people are killed and mutilated and stolen in these UFO flap areas.
	It would also explain why the ancients were so afraid of these beings.
	The Sumerians, the Hebrews, the Hittites, the Babylonians, the Assyrians.
	They believed, and it's all part of their mythology, that gateways on Earth symbolize celestial openings, through which dark influences or light influences could seek entry, and therefore it was important to use imitative magic for protection against these undesirable entities.
	Right.
	Tom, let me ask this.
	Why would you think that an entity, which presumably would be eternal, would be willing to trade that for Life inside a human body, a physical life, that is therefore limited to X number of years.
	Well, if you read the book of Enoch, and if you ascribe to Enoch and the biblical stories of the confrontation between Lucifer and God, Which is also, and the interesting thing is I named my book the Ahriman Gate.
	Ahriman is the equivalent of Lucifer, but from Zoroastrianism, ancient Persian religion.
	But all of these stories lead us to believe that there was a kind of jealousy that occurred between God and His greatest angel.
	Now, You know, I know that Coast to Coast has a lot of people that listen to the show that they don't buy any of that.
	And so this is why I try to speak in general terms that says, I'm very orthodox.
	I'm a Christian.
	These are the things that I believe.
	I also have a lot of friends that don't believe what I believe at all, who think I'm just a fruitcake.
	So I try to look at the bigger picture, the historical record that is coming to us from all kinds of people.
	from all kinds of faith, but who are telling the same story, and that is that whatever these ultra-terrestrials are, or were, that they had an interest after chaotic war, something that occurred before history, that they then had an interest in bringing themselves back into a body of flesh.
	Now, what was their interest?
	Mike Heiser's been on Coast to Coast a lot of times.
	He might talk about it from one point of view, and somebody else talked about it from another point of view, that maybe they were trying to cut off the birth line of the Messiah.
	Maybe it was that.
	Maybe it was because they were disembodied, and yet these things were accustomed to having a body, and therefore they're in misery until they reincarnate themselves.
	So you believe they can incarnate again and again?
	Well, I'm saying that I see in the ancient record, the term Rethane is the term that is used to describe dead Nephilim, their spirits in Hell.
	And we can talk about that term if you want, but that term carries with it the sense of being able to be healed or to be reincarnated.
	And it explains how these Nephilim could have existed before and after the Flood.
	So there's good theology with a lot of records that support the idea that these things, that when you read in the Bible about some of these powerful kings who are referred to almost in terms of the sense of being a god, there really could have been something more to it than just, you know, poetic language being used by the prophets.
	And now, in the case of the Watchers, in the book of Enoch in the Old Testament, this moving through portals and the use of vital energy as a construct material for forming a dimensional pathway is something that's also supported in the Bible.
	And it appears, and so that I get back on track, it appears that it also included the need for the use of both animals and humans.
	It wasn't just Jasher, but the Genesis Apocryphon, the Book of Enoch.
	Enoch says in Chapter 7 that these beings sinned against the animals as well as the humans.
	And so, I guess what you have to ask yourself is, if the only reason that the Watchers were involving themselves with women was because they lusted after them, because they were beautiful, then what would this blending with animal DNA and human DNA be about and I'm what I say to people is
	you have to admit that even if the ancient stories of lore
	are nothing more than fiction or myth that the metaphorical resemblance to parts of
	Transhumanism today what's happening today? Yes, it's astonishing because
	even the secular press has taken to use in terms like chimera from
	Oh yes?
	Tom, if you would, come back to the Watchers.
	Tell me who the Watchers are, what their motives are, and what you know about them, please.
	Well, the Watchers.
	Yes.
	You note this implication in Genesis 6-2.
	The B'nai Elohim saw the daughters of Adam, that they were fit extensions.
	And this term, fit extensions, could be understood to mean portals.
	That's why, when you asked me earlier, you know, different people mean different things about stars.
	That's right.
	What do I mean by it?
	This would be this use of molecular energy to format a navigational, dimensional pathway.
	Now, what if, as many transhumanists want to do today, what if by corrupting the species The Watchers had mingled human and animal DNA and combined the hereditary traits of different species into a single new mutation now known as the Nephilim.
	That suddenly possessed the combined intelligence, the instincts, the seeing and hearing and smelling and reacting to the environment of different life forms.
	Does Birkbeck Law School need to be able to say what we know about crime scene analysis is not going to work in the future?
	Come back to the Watchers for me, Tom.
	Who are the Watchers?
	Well, the Watchers are described in the Book of Enoch as 200 powerful angels who departed from a larger group of angels ...who came down to the earth, and they left their first estate.
	And they came down to the earth, they lusted after women, they took wives, all which they would, and they married these women.
	And out of that union were born the giants, the people of legend.
	And in a nutshell, that's the Watchers.
	They came down upon Horeb.
	And their story, I think, is repeated in the different mythologies of Egypt, of the Hebrew Bible, and these Nephilim that they created as their offspring also had offspring.
	And that offspring became the Gaborim.
	And ultimately, some people believe that this is what even led to the Great Flood.
	Because through intermarriage, there was an effort to cut off the birth line of the Christ, the birth line of the Messiah, through polluting, corrupting that righteous seed.
	So whether or not it's ancient myth, you think that we're on the verge, or perhaps even past the verge, of doing what the ancients did?
	Absolutely.
	Listen, here's what we know.
	Today, molecular biologists, they classify the functions of genes within their native species, but molecular biologists will tell you that they don't know, in most cases, how a gene's coding is going to react from one species to another.
	And in our book, The Ahriman Gate, that's why we chose transgenics, because transgenics is the science of not only altering genetic structure, but in most cases, even the nature of a species By introducing the DNA of one species into the genome of another species.
	There was a Washington Post article recently called, Chimera is a Step Closer to Reality.
	And in that article, they actually talked about how, in a series of dramatic experiments, this scientist, Ivan Balaban, who's now at the McGill University of Montreal, Balaban had taken a section of brains from developing quails, and he had transplanted that into the developing brains of chickens.
	And the resulting chickens actually exhibited the vocal trills and the head bobs that are unique to quail.
	And the importance of that study was that it proved that the transplanted parts of the brain had actually contained the neural circuitry For quail calls, and more importantly, it proved that complex behavior could be transferred across species barriers.
	Now, there's a guy by the name of Stephen Nottingham, and he wrote a book called Screening DNA.
	And he talked about in that book, he talked about how there is hidden away in our brains a permanent record of our past.
	Everything we've ever perceived, everything we've ever done, potentially, could be recalled.
	You know how extraordinary cases sometimes of involuntary memory can be triggered by a smell or a taste?
	I've done interviews that would seem to prove that, Tom.
	We're at a break point.
	Hold tight.
	Tom Horne is my guest, and we'll be right back.
	I'm right here, and my guest is Tom Horn, talking about some pretty far-out stuff.
	Stargates, transgenics, part human and part, well, something else.
	That and more when we come back.
	Alright, Tom, welcome back.
	I'm trying to make sense of all this as we go.
	Now, you believe the timing of the United States going into Iraq, and then potentially into Iran, Maybe tied into Stargate technology in some way.
	What do you know or suspect about this?
	Well, you know, without going into all my personal feelings about what I think some of that, what the motivations behind some of that might mean, wow, I mean, You know, in the first inaugural speech, Bush twice refers to the angel in the whirlwind who directs the storm, which is a line from Joseph Addison's 1705 poem, The Campaign, which was quoted in a letter from John Page, who wrote to Thomas Jefferson after the Declaration of Independence was signed, and said, do you not think that an angel rides in the whirlwind and directs the storm?
	And then in his second inaugural, Bush spoke of having lit a fire in the minds of men,
	which was a line from Dostoevsky's novel, The Possessed.
	And I had originally pointed to both of those a few years ago, actually, those inaugural
	references as being curious, because of the elements of wind and fire, key elements of
	the ancient forms of dualism connected to Iran and Iraq and Zoroastrianism.
	But also the more modern name for the Illuminati, Moriah Conquering Wind.
	Now, you know, not lately, but a couple of years ago I did whole shows on connecting the dots there, but the bottom line is that ultimately it brings us to Metatron, who in the Kabbalah is the angel in the whirlwind.
	It's the same angel of Bush's speech, and from the book of Enoch, who is the knower and revealer of secrets, and to the Illuminati, the Moriah-conquering wind.
	Also known, by the way, as the brother of Ophon, which in Hebrew is the wheel, as in the wheel in the middle of the wheel, according to ancient sages, the literal chariot of God.
	Connected in modern days to ufology and official disclosure, And more importantly, this Metatron, who is worshipped by the Illuminati as the Keeper and Giver of Secrets, has a female equivalent, which is Shakana, the President's own title for his invasion of Babylon.
	But there's something more important here, I think, something that Isaiah tied to the destruction of Babylon and Iraq in the end times.
	And I'm certainly willing to talk about that, I guess.
	Do you believe, cutting through all this, Tom, do you believe the United States, the U.S.
	administration, thinks they have found a Stargate in that area of the world, in Iraq or Iran?
	Well, I think you just have to question why we went there.
	I do.
	And most of, and I'm sure you've had different people on your show that have talked about the explanations that have been proffered don't always really match common sense or even what we've accomplished since we've been there.
	I'll give you all that.
	This is the biggest screw-up in American history.
	And in terms of politics and foreign policy, or there was some other reason why we went there.
	All right, well just coming right out with it, you believe there's a Stargate there in that part of the world?
	What I think, I think that technology existed in ancient times, and that Numerous records would tend to point to Iran and Iraq as being key places for the birth of civilization.
	And something happened.
	Something happened.
	You know, at one moment, there doesn't seem to be much history in terms of civilization.
	And it appears almost the next day that we have advanced civilizations.
	And these stories go back to the Tower of Babel and things like that, which connect to, in fact there was a news story today, I wish I would have read it now before I came on the show tonight, talking about the birth of civilization, new records I guess that have emerged, showing that the even pre-Sumerian civilization had begun in Iran.
	But we know that Iran and Iraq are central to the beginning of civilizations and the birth of exotic knowledge.
	And, you know, different people have said that when we first went into Iraq, one of the very first things we did was we built a heliport, a helicopter, you know, port in Babylon.
	We destroyed some of ancient Babylon, which was being rebuilt by that time by Saddam Hussein.
	And there were vast reports, and some of these by reputable sources were talking about some of these cuneiform texts and different things, and these little cuneiform rolls, that this stuff was getting socked away as quick as possible inside military duffel bags, any place they could put it.
	It just seems like there was something else that we were looking for.
	Now, I would not buy necessarily into some of the stories that were told about the giant Stargates that were on Earth.
	I don't know whether that's true or not.
	But what I do know is that there are prophecies in the Scripture that target Babylon in the end times, and not just the Ezekiel prophecies about war.
	There are specific prophecies that seem to me to be talking about Stargate technology.
	And these are even in the Bible.
	Now, let me see if I can quickly kind of put this together so it makes sense, because I know that here in the next 45 minutes we'll be going to questions, and I want to get past this point for you.
	So I have to kind of leap past a whole lot of my new book, Nephilim Stargates, and a whole lot of my technology to say that one of the things that I discovered In this whole story that was enlightening to me, and it goes to the story of the Watchers.
	You asked me a little bit ago about the Watchers, what did they do?
	One of the things that always struck me as odd in that story, and this was when I was a pastor and I was trying to be a theologian, it was this two-fold part of the Genesis 6 story where these mature women are being changed.
	To become fit extensions, acceptable hosts for the watchers.
	And when you look at that text, you think about it because they're altering these women.
	It's not just germline engineering.
	They're altering these mature women.
	And then you leap forward into Genesis 10, and here comes the Tower of Babel and Nimrod.
	And it says of Nimrod in Genesis 10, it says, he began to be a mighty.
	And the Hebrew there is Geborah.
	He began to become a Geborim in the earth.
	That text could literally say he began to become an offspring of the Nephilim.
	It's a very interesting piece of scripture, because it's unusual.
	The question then becomes, is Genesis 10 a record of a mature human?
	What did he do?
	Did he agree?
	I mean, I don't know how this happened.
	But being altered, potentially being altered at the genetic level.
	In any case, to get to where we need to go here, the offspring of this genetic alteration, the children born of these Watchers, became the reincarnation of dead Nephilim, according to that scholarship.
	First of all, you look at Genesis 6-4.
	Afterward, when the B'nai Elohim came into the daughters of Adam and they boarded them, they were Powerful ones, which existed from ancient times, the men of name.
	That's the interlinear Hebrew interpretation of Genesis 6-4.
	And it literally says that these were intelligences that existed before, from ancient times, and now all of a sudden they came back again.
	An interesting A question that's raised about the historical relationship between the Nephilim and the Rapha.
	Now this, by the way, I am actually going to answer your question.
	Okay, I'm banking on that.
	The spirits of dead Nephilim are Rephaim.
	This carries the meaning to heal or to be healed as in a resurrection.
	Now think about what that could mean, by the way, with scientists right now reanimating dead human tissue.
	In any case, in what's called the Rashamra text, the Rephaim are described as having been before death both human and divine beings who worship the Amorite god Baal, the ruler of the underworld, and at death, these Rephaim, they take up their assembly in the underworld.
	There they rule as the lesser gods, the kings and heroes, the rulers.
	These beings have power to return from the dead, and not only do they have power to return from the dead, it's prophesied that they will in incarnation as Nephilim.
	So, the Book of Job, now we're leaping forward, the Book of Job offers an intriguing bit of confirmation about this theory when it says, Job 26.5, dead things are formed under the waters. The dead in that
	text is the Rafa and the phrase are formed is from Hul meaning to twist or to hurl, to hurl
	as in a double helix coil, genetic manufacturing. Now when the Greek Septuagint was
	created, the Hebrew word Nephilim is translated into Greek as Gegones which is English genes,
	genetics, built around the word Genia meaning breeder kind. So all of this language,
	all of this language in the Old Testament and in other books are talking to us about
	something that has to do with the creation of living specimens. Now, just really quickly,
	here's some different verses.
	Ezekiel 32, 27, they segregated from the heroes, the old time giants who entered hell in full
	battle dress. Proverbs 9, 18, and he did not know that giants are there and that our guests
	are in the depths of hell. Proverbs 21, 16, a man that shall wander out of the way of
	doctrine shall abide in the company of giants. Isaiah 14, 9, hell below was in an uproar
	to meet you at thy coming. It stirred up the giants for thee.
	Tom, you're starting to lose me.
	Well, I'm saying that there are these beings, according to ancient texts, that exist in the underworld.
	Okay.
	And that, according to the meaning of the name Rephaim, they have the ability to be resurrected from the dead.
	Now, here's Isaiah 2614.
	Let not the dead live.
	Let not the giants rise again.
	And that's one of two scriptures in Isaiah that I think tie to Babylon.
	And that last scripture actually may even reflect a prayer from the prophet.
	It's a petition to God not to allow the giants to incarnate again.
	And yet I believe that Isaiah might have prayed that way because he knew something about the future.
	He knew something about transgenics and animal-human blending.
	Something relating to portals.
	And the giants that are prophesied to come through those pathways at the end of time.
	Maybe he knew 2 Ezra 5.8 where he talks about minstrel women giving birth to giants.
	Here, let me just get to it.
	Do you believe we're at the end of time?
	Well, here's what Isaiah 13.1.3.9 says in the Septuagint version.
	The vision which Isaiah son of Amos saw against Babylon, that's Iraq.
	Lift up a standard on the mountain of the plain.
	Exalt the voice to them.
	Beckon with the hand.
	Now listen to this.
	Open the gates, ye ruler.
	I give command and I bring them.
	Giants are coming to fulfill my wrath.
	Rejoicing at the same time and insulting.
	And that text goes on to talk about other beings that are of both a monstrous and transgenic propensity That will occupy the territory known today as modern Iraq.
	Now, I can only, you know, I've leaped past 500 pages of research to just jump there real fast.
	Thank you.
	But I can only... I'm sorry, Art.
	You know... Okay, let's try and do this without Bible quotes.
	Oh, I understand.
	Okay, can we do that?
	Can we talk about this without a constant stream of Bible quotes?
	I need to try to understand what you're putting together here.
	You believe that the ancients, if I'm getting this right, that angels fell mixed with human beings, that the cradle of civilization certainly was in Iraq, and beyond that you're talking about modern science and what we're doing In terms of mixing human and animal genetics, I'm with you there, but I'm not getting the whole picture, I guess.
	Well, just that we may be repeating a science that has occurred once before in history, which was conducted by these super-intelligences that are identified as the Watchers, and that the ancient record, not just the Bible, Uh, discusses that activity in terms of them, you know, the word is sinning, but using women, animals, even plant life, and that they use that mix to create for themselves some pathway through which they could extend themselves into our reality.
	Now, so for, to me, the concept of hidden unseen intelligence that somehow at times and for reasons that we might not understand can reach through from another world and touch us is something that intersects with our humanity on so many different levels including spiritually and sometimes it has seemed to me as if this is happening in staged events that occur
	As we can accept or absorb the ramifications.
	Okay, what evidence do you see today of this reach through?
	Do you see any evidence of it?
	Is there anything you can point to that says, okay, here's a case where something or somebody reached across and changed human genetics or changed humans in some way in modern day?
	Well, we're doing, as far as genetics, we're doing it right now.
	To ourselves?
	Well, not just to ourselves.
	I mean, you know, animal rights activists are up in arms because of what we're doing to animals.
	And we are breaching these species barriers.
	You know, right now we're only doing it, admittedly, we're only doing it at the embryonic level for research purposes.
	But you asked me earlier in the show if I believe that could be happening, you know, Black budget underground, yes.
	And I certainly believe that it could be, and possibly it is, because of what we know about American history.
	So, you know, maybe the confusion is in the way that I approach things, because I do tend to look at, but not strictly the biblical worldview, but I do tend to look at more the metaphysical.
	And look, the bulk of Christians 50 years ago, the idea of alien contact to them would have been absurd.
	And for many Christians is still.
	Well, is still, but not so much anymore.
	I mean, Eric von Daniken came along with Chariots of the Gods, Zacharias Sitchin with his Earth Chronicles series, and those guys, what at first felt, I can tell you because I was there, And what felt like a challenge to orthodoxy actually was good for us, because it caused scholars on both the Christian and the secular side, and not just Christian, but other religious people of faith, to begin to ask important questions.
	What are, if UFOs are something other than black budget operations, if aliens are something real, Then what would the effect be?
	Is that your view, Tom?
	Do you believe some of these sightings, some of these ships, some of these abductions are real?
	That that really is going on on Earth now?
	Absolutely, I do.
	You do?
	All right.
	All right.
	Hold it right there, Tom.
	Tom Horn is here talking about Human modification.
	Human and animal combinations.
	And going from the ancient times to what we're doing today.
	And he's also talking about stargates.
	The ability of, would it be fallen gods?
	To move through.
	And perhaps the manipulation of all this by what we call UFOs.
	Here I am.
	Tom Horn is my guest.
	We're going to try and pin him down.
	Coming up in a moment about what these things are.
	These things that thousands, perhaps millions of us see in our skies and are inhabited by who knows what kind of creatures.
	Perhaps Tom knows.
	That question for him in a moment.
	Certainly I have interviewed many, many abductees in my time, and those who do research on abductions, Tom.
	The beings who are doing these abductions, the creatures in these vehicles, not all of which obviously are from elsewhere, do you believe that these beings are extraterrestrials, in other words, from another planet somewhere, or do you believe that these beings are I guess what you would call angels.
	Well, I don't know.
	What I can tell you, Art, is that this has touched my family in profound ways.
	In what way?
	Well, I mean, when I was a child, my dad was a police officer.
	He also worked with the FBI in Arizona.
	And there was a series of events.
	First of all, he discovered some large circular holes in the Arizona desert.
	This was reported by the Arizona Gazette back when it happened.
	The story was called Mysterious Mountain Holes.
	They went out and took pictures of him because he had been out there deer hunting when he found these things.
	They took pictures of him with his 30-odd sticks.
	These things were huge.
	They were perfectly spherical, 20 feet across maybe, 8 or 10 feet deep.
	And Dad as the police officer had taken the Army Corps of Engineers out there.
	They couldn't determine how they were made.
	Dad had grown up in the area working for the Bard Ranch and he talked to the local Indians
	that lived in the area.
	They didn't even know they were there, so Dad assumed that these things had appeared
	almost overnight.
	Because they couldn't determine how they were made, eventually the Corps of Engineers filled
	them full of rock because the deer and stuff were falling in them.
	They were full of water.
	They were perfectly cylindrical.
	In fact, if people listening to this show go to officialdisclosure.com, they can see
	a picture of them.
	And Dad just described them as looking like a white hot ball had just pushed down into
	the earth.
	He didn't know how they were made and he was ex-military.
	That story eventually tapered off because nobody could explain it.
	Then on November 5, 1975, along the northeastern ridge of that Arizona mountain range, Travis Walton stepped out of his pickup, looked up at what he called a glowing object, and everybody knows his story, Fire in the Sky.
	Oh yes, I interviewed Travis a number of times along with his co-workers.
	It's a very believable abduction story.
	I think it is believable.
	I mean, I don't know Travis.
	I've never met him, but I've talked to Stanton Friedman.
	Friedman knows him, and he believes his story's true.
	And I don't know whether his story was connected at all with what my dad had discovered.
	My dad worked for Deli Webb for a long time.
	Dad was connected on both sides of the law, if you know what I mean.
	And what I do know, though, is that after his original discovery, And this happened, and you have to keep in mind, here we are, a very conservative family.
	I mean, there was nothing about aliens or anything that, really, there was even no classical definitions of it back then.
	And my aunt, who lived just down the road from us, right after Dad made that discovery, comes up to our house, face ash and white, telling my mother that she had seen some large circular thing hovering above our house.
	And mom went outside and didn't see anything.
	It was just a few days after that, and I remember this night vividly, that I was asleep, maybe 2 o'clock in the morning, and all of a sudden my sister, my older sister, began screaming in a way that you never want to hear a human scream.
	And I jumped up, as well as did everybody else in the household.
	We ran into her room, and she was sitting up in bed with her eyes like silver dollars, My dad immediately made me and my brother go back to our room, and it wasn't until years later.
	In fact, I was pastoring before I knew what that story was about.
	And my mother told me that my sister had woke up in the middle of the night, heard kind of a clicking sound, and felt something touch her feet.
	And she woke up, and there was a light coming in from the bathroom, because we always left the light on in the bathroom.
	And here are these three small bulbous headed beings that today you would just classify them as your typical alien greys.
	But back then there wasn't any description of them.
	And they were next to her bed and they were whispering something or they were talking in a really low voice.
	It wasn't English.
	She didn't have no idea what they were saying, but it just terrified her.
	And she was looking at him, trying to figure out whether she was asleep, having a nightmare, or whether this was really happening, but her senses told her it was really happening.
	And these things seemed to have an interest in her feet and her legs, and so they were touching her feet and her legs, and then one of them walked up and laid its hand on her head, and when it did, she started screaming.
	Now, Art, that experience didn't stop there.
	It continues.
	And what you have to understand is that this was simply not something that could be adaptable to our world view.
	Of course not.
	And so how did you adapt to it?
	Obviously it launched you into the line of inquiry that you're doing right now, which Would be regarded by many Christians as having way across the line, but I guess you got pushed across the line.
	Well, I'm not as concerned about what people think about me as I am in knowing what the truth is.
	Right.
	Because this doesn't affect my personal devotion.
	But I know my... Well, it conceivably could, Tom.
	It doesn't, because I've grown to the point that I can, you know, this is a reason why I'm very comfortable with interviewing and discoursing with a lot of people that buy into what happened at Roswell and things like that, because I believe that there is something that doesn't necessarily fit the old models.
	You know, this whole question about how would people of faith be affected if suddenly they were faced with reality, That we're not the sole higher intelligence in the universe.
	And in the last, even the last year, you know, there have been different astronomers for the Vatican that have released a series of treaties in which they've been saying, in fact, Cosmonago, his Intelligent Life in the Universe was published by a Vatican-owned Well, I think that the religious community probably could accept and rationalize extraterrestrial contact.
	suggesting a greater than not possibility of extraterrestrial contact.
	Okay, well I think that the religious community probably could accept and rationalize extraterrestrial
	contact.
	There could be life out there, certainly, but when you take another step and you start
	talking about these beings as perhaps not being extraterrestrial, but as being, oh I
	don't know, perhaps extra-dimensional.
	Let's go with that just to put a label on it.
	And that perhaps they are our progenitors.
	Perhaps they created us.
	Perhaps at some point in human evolution, a point that you talked about earlier where all of a sudden we seem to have a civilization where they stepped in and created what we are now, Tom.
	Well, that's what I'm saying.
	You know, that was before we went to the break, and I mentioned Eric von Däniken.
	I think the whole idea of this ancient astronaut theory, the Elohim, I think this is something that people of faith are going to accept at different levels.
	They're not going to accept necessarily the whole idea that there was some superintelligence that came down and created us.
	And that this is the origins of the Genesis story, because they still have this question about, OK, but then where did they come from?
	But what I am saying is, I think that for me, and for people like me, we can understand that there is something that's certainly happening beyond the natural models that we were given 25, 30 years ago.
	And I know it in my family.
	If I had time to tell you the situation with my sister, Her husband being employed where he was, Los Alamos, and his mysterious death, and then from her to her daughter, which makes it generational, and her daughter being a federal employee of the Social Security Division.
	And her experiences being identical to my sister's and her going to the head psych doctor for the Social Security Division and him telling her, absolutely this is real and we're aware of it.
	And from that, Steven Spielberg.
	Meaning the whole abduction scenario?
	Yes.
	Yes!
	And Steven Spielberg's people pick her out of a crowd in Seattle, Washington, when they were promoting their Taken television series, saying, come with us, you've been chosen.
	I'm telling you that we don't have time to talk about this tonight, but the mathematical probabilities of what has happened between my sister, and then her niece, and now her daughter, three generations.
	In fact, what might even be the very first picture of an alien gray that appeared on a computer screen standing behind my knees.
	That's also over there at officialdisclosure.com.
	And it's been, by the way, that picture has been analyzed by a guy who does photo analysis for the military.
	It's also been analyzed by a police officer who does analysis for the police department and several other people who are just good at what they do.
	And so, this story goes pretty deep, and the bottom line is, Art, something touched my family, and it put me on this quest to try to both understand it, and also to be able to reconcile it with my worldview, and to be comfortable with that analysis.
	Well, yeah, that's quite a job.
	Well, it is quite a job, but I think, you know, I think for myself, I have, within myself, I have an understanding of what all of this means.
	I also have a lot of friends, though, on various sides of the fence.
	I'm not a rigid kind of person.
	I believe what I believe, but I also have appreciation for people who see things differently than I do.
	So I look at the bigger picture, and to me the bigger picture is something has been going
	on for some time.
	By the way, and you just tell me to shut up if you don't want me to even bring this up,
	but all of this is interesting to me, given what you asked Malachi Martin back in 97.
	And Martin placed a 10-year maximum time frame, he said between 5 to 10 years, on why is the
	Vatican so heavily invested in the study of deep space.
	And I think it's interesting that now, 10 years, that's hit a deadline now in my mind.
	Ten years, 1997, here we are at 2007.
	And I don't know, you know, is it a coincidence that this year, for the first time, the anniversary of Malachi's comments to you, that now the Vatican, for the first time, is talking about maybe defunding VAT?
	You know, when I read that first story, I thought, well, is that because they know whatever it was they needed to know?
	I mean, I don't know.
	Maybe I'm reading too much into that.
	But I think it's ironic that now we're discovering second Earths, or admitting them, and Vatican astronomers are publishing treaties letting the faithful know that ET would not be a challenge to their faith, and now Something that I'm certain Father Malachi would be very interested in, or at least find extraordinary, is that we now have this science for cross-bonding species that's not only reminiscent of what the Watchers were doing with the Nephilim, but it might be comparable to what other dimensional beings we call aliens.
	Do you see anything at all good coming out of genetic modification?
	Yeah, I do.
	Like what?
	Well, I mean, The funny thing was, a couple of years ago, I said to somebody, I said, you know, let's say, for instance, that I have a cancerous tumor and if genetic modification or nanotechnology or any of these biotechnological advances in science, if they came up with a way for me to be able to go in and let them extract a little bit of that, the cell matter from that DNA, from that tumor out of my body,
	And then they create some kind of concoction and inject it back into that tumor.
	They're already doing that, Tom.
	Yeah, and I read a news story just this week where now through nanotechnology they're talking about the very possibilities of creating microscopic-type micro-robots, for want of a better word, that will be doing that very same thing.
	So I definitely think that there will be some benefits that come out of this technology, certainly.
	You say that you could accept extraterrestrials within your worldview, and I can understand that.
	But again, if the evidence, Tom, begins to point to the fact that these are those who created us, or took whatever was on Earth at that time and made us what we are now, could you accept that?
	No, well, I, you know, I'm... I think you said no.
	Right?
	But that's got to be a possibility.
	That's got to be in your mind a concern and a worry.
	Because an awful lot of what you said went on in ancient times might point to that.
	A lot of what's going on in current times, then, in your own mind, must also sort of point to that in a strange way.
	I'm not sure that I understand the question, but I asked, my Kaiser's friend of mine, I asked him one time about, you know, did he buy the idea that you could cleanly define what's happening with alien intelligence as angeological and demonological?
	And he offered me a third hypothesis which I later called Heiser's Lion.
	It's actually in my new book.
	And that is that there could be this unknown intelligence that's outside of the need for redemption.
	And what was interesting to me about that theory was he said, you know, you ascribe malevolence to what's happening in alien abduction.
	But, and it's because, it's because these people are treated in a way that is against their will, and their life is interrupted.
	And I've sat down and I've talked to my sister, and I know the incredible fear that is associated with this event.
	Most Christians, most devout fundamentalist Christians, would very quickly say that what happened to your sister was an encounter with demons, and leave it at that.
	Yeah, well that's what... But you're wandering beyond that.
	You're wondering beyond that.
	And quite clearly, you're flirting with the possibility that it is something else entirely, that most Christians would dismiss as demons.
	Well, even Kiel and Valet and other people have said that sometimes the behavior of these unknowns seems to be the same as what was defined by the early Church as demonological.
	But I don't think that Kiel or Valet would say they are demons.
	Not in the traditional, you know, church.
	No, they wouldn't.
	But the fact that you have a life that is interrupted by an activity that's not invited.
	And in our limited human understanding, we need to try to have some kind of packaged worldview that we live in that can interpret these events for us.
	And therefore, angels, demons, whatever.
	But Heisler's Lion says, what if there's something entirely outside of that worldview?
	In other words, You walk out, if you're in Africa and you walk out in the middle of the field and you're dumb enough to come charging up to some lion and it eats you, you would not say it was malevolent.
	And the lion doesn't need redemption.
	The lion just does what it does.
	Right.
	It's not evil.
	So that there could be something outside of our understanding of creation that also behaves in a way that is incredibly intelligent, that may study us.
	But the things that it does and what it does and how it behaves can't be easily defined within orthodoxy as being either good or evil.
	Maybe it's something that falls entirely outside of that whole mentality of redemption.
	So, and now, whether I know, how could I possibly know?
	I don't know.
	All I know... It doesn't sound as though you're saying you know, but it does sound as though you're beginning to seriously wonder.
	And that's good.
	All right, Tom, hold it right there.
	We're at a break point.
	We're going to come back and open the lines for Tom Horn.
	I'm Art Bell.
	Here I am.
	I'm going to turn it over to the audience now.
	That's wrong.
	Tom Horn, over to the audience.
	And if I were to render my opinion, I'd say Tom is kind of a good fundamentalist Christian who's had experiences within his own family.
	Deep, profound experiences that have him questioning what's going on in our world.
	All these things we're seeing in our skies, all these stories of abduction and apparent alien contact and all the rest of it.
	And as Tom put it, he's beginning to try to connect the dots and some of the dots may be going in directions that he might have a problem with.
	With regard to his own theology.
	That's just me, and I could be all wrong about that.
	We'll see what the audience has to say.
	That means all of you in a moment.
	Alright, Tom, I'd kind of like to go to the audience now and see what they have to say.
	What do you think?
	Sure.
	Fine.
	Alright, let's do it.
	Larry in Oregon, you're on with Tom Horn.
	Hey, Tom.
	Yes?
	Larry, how are you?
	I'm fine, how are you?
	Well, Art, I finally got through to you.
	Yes, sir.
	Anyway, I wanted to talk to you.
	You mentioned something about the Stargate.
	And possibly one of the reasons why we're in Iraq, I think it is to look for the Stargate.
	And the question I have basically is, is that any possibility that the Stargate that we're looking for could be the Ark of the Covenant?
	Well, personally, I mean, I wouldn't know, but I do think that the explanations that we've been given so far, in my opinion, don't hold water.
	I think almost all of us agree on that, Tom.
	The question was, though, could it be the Ark of the Covenant?
	Could it be something?
	It's possible.
	I think we went there for something, and it could be that we had intelligence that told us that there were things in specific areas.
	It was, you know, it was interesting that all of the pre-invasion press all had to do with how we were going to go there.
	Not only would we be accepted with open arms, but we were going to make sure that infrastructure was taken care of.
	We were going to take care of the Iraqis.
	Sure.
	We went there and went directly to the most ancient sites, set up our heliports, started grabbing everything we could get our hands on, including out of the museums.
	So, yeah, we had it.
	Now, whether there was, you know, whether the Ark of the Covenant was part of that is certainly not something that I have any information about, but when you look at the history behind the Tower of Babel and And specific prophecies about... And here's the thing, whether I would even agree with that theology, or any of the listeners, or our or anybody else, doesn't matter as much as whether those who are in power, some belief system that drove them to go there to try to attain or ascertain certain
	Well, frankly, with some of the reasons we were given for why we went into Iraq, what you're offering as a possibility is as good as anything they offered and still holds up, whereas what they offered does not.
	Harry, in Texas, you're on with Tom Horne.
	Thank you.
	This is Harry.
	I'm calling from South Texas.
	And I'd like to present a hypothesis to you and see what your comments on it would be.
	When you speak of an entity coming here and being outside the realm of what, you know, I think you said salvation, I have a theory that there are many gods, okay?
	We acknowledge one God, and that's what it says in the Bible, but the Bible also, he never refers to himself singular.
	And I believe in each solar, not solar system, but in galaxies far away, the energy that our God utilized here, whatever that might be, created us and that there exists in other galaxies
	creatures or existence of beings that were created by other Entities similar to God but not with God's goodness, and I
	think that would explain Somewhat what you're getting at of being outside the realm
	of our salvation is that am I correct in that?
	Well What you know art I?
	Guess I'm asking you do you feel like there could be other entities like God in other galaxies far away?
	They are God did not create You're asking me that well
	I'm just asking you gentlemen that you seem to be speaking of
	What's visiting us and I I'm I am a Christian or in a man of God and I'll tell you I have no problem believing
	That there's visitors because God is an alien God and all of it, and Jesus was an alien by definition.
	I mean, that's not hard to understand.
	So I'm not threatened at all that an entity is coming from somewhere else and could be part of our Creator.
	Well, the only threatening thing to you, Tom, would be if one of those dots you connect begins to show that these beings, whoever they turn out to be, and I wouldn't claim the no, turn out to be our progenitors, our creators, then everything gets turned upside down, and you're in a lot of trouble, and a lot of Christians, a lot of people all over the world, not just Christians, are in a lot of trouble.
	Actually, I'm very comfortable, Art.
	I mean, I don't question my personal theology.
	And the reason I don't is because I'm not as fundamentalist as, you know, I might come across.
	I accepted a long time ago that, for instance, alien abduction phenomenon is a real phenomenon.
	Oh yes, but you're traveling down a path.
	Everybody's traveling down a path, but what I'm saying is it doesn't challenge.
	I have a personal, you know, each one of us have a sense of spirituality.
	We have a personal relationship with our God, and that relationship is not challenged at By this phenomenon.
	This phenomenon is something to me that is real and it's outside of that relationship.
	It doesn't, it doesn't even have anything to do with the relationship.
	It's, it's a separate, it's almost a separate issue where I'm trying to understand what this phenomenon is.
	Now, I'm very thankful that it didn't touch me personally as far as I know.
	Tom, maybe you're classifying it as a separate phenomenon so that you can deal with it.
	Oh, well, hey, look, possible.
	What I'm saying is that it has never caused me to question my own personal faith, but my faith would probably not line up with the way you may be reading me, either, in that I'm very open to accepting that there could be a multiplicity of realities, different kinds of intelligences that interact with us in different ways.
	It isn't all just God, Devil, Angel, Demon.
	There could be other reality.
	And so, those things don't challenge me because I don't try to use them to measure my belief system.
	I just try to think, okay, there is something here that has been occurring since the beginning of time.
	It's been recorded in the mythos of every great civilization that had an ability to write records.
	And that reality has an interest in involving itself with human DNA and animal DNA, and often uses that to express itself in three-dimensional reality.
	So, for me, that is a reality.
	That really happens.
	Now, what is that?
	I don't necessarily say that's angels and demons.
	I'm just saying that's something that does actually occur, and it is a phenomenon that is as much a part of our American history As the fact that Abraham Lincoln existed.
	Alright, to Grover in Alaska, you're on with Tom Horne.
	Thanks for having me on, Art.
	Quickly, I'd like to give a shout out to my parents and all the boys over at the Drug Rehabilitation Center who are listening to this program.
	And Mr. Horne, thanks for coming on Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	I know your topic is fascinating and you also Share the same last name as one of my favorite NFL wide receivers, Joe Horn, formerly of the New Orleans Saints.
	But you were talking about animal modification.
	Have you heard of the Bohemian Grove?
	Yes.
	Yes, you know, I know every year a mock human sacrifice is done there to Moloch, and I believe David Icke believe that the world leaders that gather into the Bohemian
	Grove turn into reptiles or reptilians in the Bohemian Grove. It kind of relates to, I guess you
	could say, the animal modification topic you were talking about, and I was wondering what your
	thoughts were on that.
	Well, I mean, I know that, you know, Alex Jones, David Icke, these are people who have,
	you know, they've looked deeper into what happens at the Bohemian Grove
	than I have, and I know that there is an occultic event, the worship of this big owl,
	the songs that they sing together, you have the elite that are gathered there.
	Now as far as the animal side of biotechnology and my interest in it, and the reason why I think that it is both prophetic and that it should be something that most people are interested For instance, animals can do things we can't do.
	They sense things we can't sense.
	They can sense earthquakes.
	They smell tumors.
	Some of them, like dogs, can hear sounds as high as 40,000 Hz.
	Dolphins can hear 100,000 Hz.
	But, more importantly, animals see wavelengths of the electromagnetic spectrum that are beyond our human ability.
	And I have a suspicion that, as our understanding of quantum physics Including light and dark matter expand, we're going to come to more fully appreciate these ancient references to beings of light and beings of darkness.
	And the reason why, even in the Bible, it talks about animals having this ability to see these beings that we can't see.
	The story of Balaam's donkey, and the angel is going to take off Balaam's head.
	You believe we're headed toward an imminent post-human future, right?
	I do believe that.
	We most certainly are.
	I guarantee you we are.
	Now, I may sound like a fruitcake saying that.
	I absolutely guarantee you that this is the last generation of the human species as the sole, higher, intelligent occupiers of planet Earth.
	I guarantee it.
	Well, then I'm proud to have been part of it.
	Hannah, in South Dakota, you're on with Tom Horne.
	Hi.
	I have to say, this is one of the best shows you've done in a long time.
	But I have two things I want to say.
	One is, I'm Jewish, and there is a commandment that God gives us in Deuteronomy.
	I know you don't want us to bring up the biblical stuff, but he mentions the use of, or mixing linen with cotton, and it's called shotness.
	And I wonder if that is a, you know, God tells us not to mix cotton and linen.
	I mean, wool and linen together, because, you know, we're just not supposed to do it.
	And I wonder if that's an indirect warning of us to not do mixing of animal and human DNA.
	It's just a thought I wanted to throw out.
	And it's very appropriate.
	In fact, some of the Jewish rabbis are actually more at the forefront of the discussions of both the ethics And what the ramifications of cross-species breeding will be.
	And you go to, like, Google or whatever, and Google the name of the article, Does a Clone Have a Soul?
	Does a Clone Have a Soul?
	But what you'll find in that article is how these different leading rabbis in Israel are talking about these creatures that are born through genetic duplication, and they start asking these questions that are important to them about Would it be considered a human?
	A genetic modified human?
	Part animal, part human.
	Would it be a human?
	And they even go so far as asking the question, if it's not a human, could we offer it as a ritual sacrifice?
	So it exposes these deep ethical questions that are important to different people.
	And it also exposes the issues that are raised By this whole question of breaching the species barriers.
	Now, for me, the bigger questions have to do with what, you know, what plagues we could potentially unleash upon ourselves by how this affects the environment.
	And what we're already seeing in genetically modified crops is that when you start mixing living organisms in ways that neither Neither creation, but if you don't believe in any of that, nor evolution allowed for, that it does things that can't be predicted.
	And so those are the biggest issues that I have.
	But go and look up that article, Does a Clone Have a Soul?
	There's some great questions in there from the Jewish perspective about what is a human.
	All right.
	Jason in California, your turn with Tom Horne.
	Thank you, Art.
	I wanted to ask Tom, is there an association between Autoimmune disease and alien abduction.
	What was the question?
	Yeah, I was wondering if there's a relationship between autoimmune disease and alien abduction.
	Autoimmune disease, the body beginning to attack itself.
	You know, like I said earlier on this program, I'm neither a scientist, I'm not a doctor, a medical doctor.
	There are so many questions like that that I just simply don't have an answer for.
	I only know that Both from life experience and also from research, I know, at least in my mind, that whatever these things are, they have an interest in blood, human DNA, genetics, and not always, but at least in some cases, the purposes behind that are the harvesting of cellular matter for the purposes of creating offspring.
	And so then it comes to, you know, the different Scholars in this field talk about, well, is this because we're looking at a very old super-intelligent existence that has reached the end of their ability to be able to procreate, to progenerate themselves?
	And so they need to harvest this material so they can create offspring.
	So there's all kinds of different theories, and how would I possibly know which one is correct?
	Well, when you don't know the answer to a question, just better to say you don't know.
	Terry in Wisconsin, you're on with Tom Horne.
	Hi, Tom.
	I want to refer you back to that experience, I guess, your sister had with an encounter with some other life intelligence, or intelligent life, rather.
	You mentioned that she was terrified by it, but did she have recurring encounters?
	And if she had, she must have developed an opinion about what these creatures wanted from her or were going to do with her, and I'd be interested to hear what you have to say about that.
	Okay, did the encounters recur, Tom?
	Yes.
	They did.
	And what did she eventually think that this was all about and they wanted?
	What did she think?
	That's right.
	I don't think she's ever drawn a conclusion.
	I think she wishes it wouldn't happen ever, period.
	It scares her.
	Is it still going on?
	Three months ago was the last time.
	Now let me tell you about this experience very quickly.
	Three months ago, I get a phone call.
	They think she's had a stroke.
	She's lost all the feeling in her legs.
	They take her in the hospital.
	They're doing both neurological and other kinds of tests.
	They determine she hasn't had a stroke.
	They don't even know what's happened to her, but they put her through a series of... They help her learn to re-walk again, because she had lost all the feeling in her legs.
	Now, I did not know until early this week when I talked with her.
	That what the whole story was, was that three months ago, she's laying there in bed, it's like two o'clock in the morning or something, late at night, and her bed started shaking.
	And immediately in her mind, she says, they're here.
	She knows that they're there.
	And what she said, what was like an instant passed.
	And it's six o'clock in the morning and she's on the edge of the bed.
	Now her legs are off the edge of the bed as if she had been sitting up on the bed, you know, and then lean back.
	Right.
	The blankets are folded up beside her.
	And, uh, she, so she goes to stand up and can't stand up.
	Something's wrong with her legs.
	And she calls my mother.
	And my mother comes in and is trying to help her stand up.
	She can't stand up.
	Her legs won't work.
	She doesn't have any feeling in them.
	Alright, Tom, hold it right there.
	What a break point.
	We have to break here.
	Tom Horn is my guest.
	I can certainly understand how what he's explaining right now would have caused a lot of deep thought about what he believes.
	I'm Art Bell.
	All of this is becoming much more clear to me now as the tragedy of what occurred to and is occurring to Tom Horn's sister.
	Is becoming clear.
	We'll get more of it in a moment.
	All right, Tom, to finish up with your sister, your mom got there, I take it, what from there?
	She sat up in the bed, tried to get up, couldn't, and started, you know, crying out.
	My mother, my sister lives with my mother now, and my mother came to her, tried to help her stand up and couldn't.
	She called the ambulance.
	And the ambulance came.
	When the ambulance got there, they actually told her she had had a stroke.
	That's what they said.
	Sure.
	And they took her to the hospital and that's when the neurologist and the other people got involved and they determined she had not had a stroke.
	When I talked to her just a few days ago, she's walking again now.
	She had to go through 12 weeks of therapy where they used a device that helps her stand up, a cradle or whatever.
	She eventually has gotten enough feeling back in her legs that she can walk again.
	But the point is that they don't know yet what happened to her.
	It wasn't a stroke.
	And if you knew the history from my dad to then what happened with my sister to what then began happening with her daughter, which is, in its own right, Mathematically, it's improbable.
	It's almost like living in the Matrix.
	It's almost like watching a movie play out, that nobody could have these kind of events occur that weren't written into a script.
	And yet, they did occur.
	They have occurred.
	And now, the same activity is happening with her daughter.
	So now you have three generations of women Who are having this same experience, and it's very classical.
	As you know, in the abduction world, this is not at all uncommon, Tom.
	No, well, I didn't know that at one time.
	There was a point, actually, at which I went to pastoral counsel and said, I really got to know what's going on here.
	And luckily, I was able to get connected with somebody who was a strong person of faith, but who also had experience in this kind of phenomenon.
	And they explained to me, this is a generational abduction phenomenon which is occurring.
	We finally wound up, not just with testimony which could be fabricated, but photos that can't be explained.
	Those are on the official Disclosure.com website.
	Even audio recordings.
	Tell you, some people have had difficulty in finding these things you've been talking about.
	Where are they?
	Officialdisclosure.com.
	And when you get there?
	Right on the front page.
	On the front page?
	Right on the front page.
	All right, then I guess they're just not looking hard enough.
	Donna in Kentucky, you're on the air with Tom Horn.
	Good morning, Mr. Horn, Mr. Bell.
	Oh, my stomach is wanting to nod up.
	I'm sorry, I have to get this question out.
	I have experienced some bizarre things and seen the most bizarre, unusual things in the recent past on this good old United States.
	And my question, I really have to, but this one's more important to me.
	This king that, over these creatures, who's an angel of the bottomless pit, I'm thinking that this Hebrew tongue, Abaddon, That he is also the star that fell, but I'm not sure, but can you tell me anything about him?
	Because this man walked up to me.
	Oh!
	This man walked up to me and he said he was that name, and he was Hebrew, and he said a few other things, and I, you know, just really didn't talk to him.
	I did say a couple words, but it was too creepy.
	And I didn't know this was in the book yet, but it was too creepy what was going on around me, because these spiritual beings were interceding and helping me at this point where this person walked up to me.
	He's, like, such a nice man.
	And I just want also to know, are these, like, giants or any of these people looking for a woman with sixes on her body?
	Okay Donna, you've got a lot out already.
	The most bizarre thing, you must think I'm a fruitcake.
	No, no, hold it right there.
	Tom, you want to respond?
	Abaddon, Apollyon, you know the Apostle Paul in the New Testament talks about the Antichrist as being the son of perdition, and in the Greek there, perdition, is Apolleia, the son of Apollyon.
	So that, you know, there are those who believe that part of what's going on with this whole need to use material, and even, by the way, the transhumanist approach to it, that transhumanism might even lead to this genetic concoction which would give birth to the Apollyon.
	Essentially, it's a redo of the Nephilim.
	The Watchers come down, they use animal and human DNA, they create something, they incarnate themselves in it.
	That modern man, in his quest to play God, according to the theory, starts breaching the specie barrier, and that there is intelligence there, that uses This incarnation of human, animal, whatever, and this demonic force then can incarnate itself into that new creation, the son of perdition, Apollyon.
	So I'm assuming that's what she's talking about.
	So we are the last of the modern untampered with.
	Yeah, well, and it could have, you know, there are theories that it could have happened once before.
	That by the time we reach Noah, he's the last guy alive whose DNA has not been corrupted by intermarriage leading back to the Gaborim and the Nephilim and the Watchers.
	You know, whether that happened or not, I'm not sure.
	I couldn't possibly know.
	How could I know?
	But it's a theory.
	But what I do know is that everybody should be concerned about what's happening in biotechnology now.
	I mean, there are some very good things that could come out of biotech.
	But on the other hand, when you start unnaturally altering living organisms, these could affect the environment in ways that we're not prepared for.
	I have exactly the same concerns.
	John in Denver, you're on with Tom Horne.
	Yeah.
	You know, I've been listening to your show and then George's since the 80s.
	And one of the topics that really is not fully addressed is an understanding of the origin, the etymology of the word demon and demonology.
	It goes back to a root that deals with the word genius.
	And first off, you have got to understand, when somebody does an exorcism, they are dealing with the soul of a disembodied being that was playing around with humanity Before the Great Flood.
	So you've got two realms of demonology.
	You've also got... God says in Psalms that he stands in the congregation of the mighty, and he judges among the gods.
	So it's clear that there's other beings that are there that have power more than we do, but nevertheless there's one God that judges among them.
	Now, the other issue that I heard you talking about is the origins on genetics.
	It was Dr. Fred Hoyle that pointed out something here, and this is something everybody needs to think about, is that, you know, you can do 10 to the 22nd represents all the suns in all the universes.
	Now, if you take the number 10 to 120th power, that represents all the singular electrons piled on each other.
	Now, what Fred Hoyle did was, He and his associate, they went around to all the other realms of science, and they had them figure out the odds for a spontaneous creation of a bacterium.
	Now that turned out to be 10 to the 40,000th power.
	That's how complex even a simple bacterium is.
	10 to the 40,000th power by chance.
	That's more than the electrons piled on each other for the entire universe.
	Now, people need to think about that.
	The other thing that's going on is that it makes it clear in Isaiah that it says God is going to judge the host of heaven that is on high and the rulers of the earth.
	And so he categorizes into just the two general categories.
	So we know that there's one class that's non-terrestrial that he's going to judge, as well as the rulers of the Earth for departing from him.
	And I just thought that that needed some clarification.
	You know, the Arab word, and by the way, the Arabs see a lot of UFOs just like the other people around the world, but they've always called them the djinn.
	Which is a derivative or an etymology where we get the word genius from.
	And the phenomena is worldwide and people have got to recognize that the answers are throughout the entire Bible.
	And I wasn't, I haven't been aware that anybody thoroughly has explained that.
	So when you're talking about demonology, you're talking about geniuses.
	And one half of those geniuses were disembodied And the other half are still running around trying to deceive and work on people and do things they have no business doing.
	They don't belong in this realm, but they have set up house here.
	All right, John.
	Well, clearly the numbers you gave go to creation.
	I have no argument with that.
	Just a great wonderment about how it all happened.
	And I think that's what Tom is struggling with.
	Let's go to Abe in Lexington, Kentucky.
	Good morning, gentlemen.
	Good morning.
	It's an honor to speak to both of you.
	Mr. Horn, I was just wondering if you might have anything to say about the escalating battles that are going on in the Gaza Strip.
	I know that somewhere in the Old Testament it states that the city of Gaza was actually created by the sons of Anak, or the Rephaim.
	And I was just wondering if you might have anything to say about that.
	Well, you know, it's certainly not my expertise.
	I mean, no other city except Jerusalem is given as much mention in the Bible as Babylon, and therefore that's the reason why I tend to focus, if I'm going to look at biblical eschatology, and especially with my interest in Stargate technology, I tend to stay more focused on Iraq, but I mean, I understand what you're saying, and I do know that Israel is going to be a boiling pot according to Biblical prophecy in these last days, and I think that Gaza's part of that.
	Okay.
	Lauren in Salt Lake City, you're on with Tom Horn.
	Hey, Tom.
	Thanks a lot for having me on.
	Mr. Horn, I had a question for you about ChipRx, and I was wondering if you knew anything about their product called SmartPill?
	What is it?
	Sorry, go ahead.
	No, Loren, again, something, some product called SmartPill, what is that?
	SmartPill, it's, ChipRx is putting out this product called SmartPill that's being developed in the University of Kentucky.
	It's an implantable device, and I have my medical terms, I can't find right now, but it's actually only the size of a wooden matchstick.
	And you can look under ChipRx and other products and see this.
	And the deal is, is it's got a reservoir and a, um, chip, like a chip, um, what's it called?
	A circuitry control unit and batteries.
	And you just implant it through a needle.
	And you can put it inside someone's body and you can attach a catheter to it.
	And then they can, like, say, attach it to your spine or something like this.
	And it does what?
	And then they can remotely activate it to inject you with something.
	And I was wondering if you knew anything about, like, detecting it, because it's so small.
	See, the circuitry is only, say, as big as a third of a wooden matchstick.
	So the idea is to, what, inject medicine when needed?
	That sort of thing?
	Well, that's what they say it's for.
	But the problem being is if they're medically testing it when they're not supposed to on some Wednesday that they took inside their Barcelona hospital and off a street in Barcelona, which they did, which happened.
	All right.
	Well, have you heard anything about that, Tom?
	Well, no, it doesn't necessarily surprise me.
	I mean, you know, the RFID technology, there's news this week about what's happening with digital angels and Alzheimer's patients, and certainly this is going to be part of our future whether we like it or not.
	And there are those people who fear that this could ultimately lead to something like the Mark of the Beast.
	I suppose it's beginning to sound a little that way.
	Michael in Norfolk, Virginia, you're on with Tom Horn.
	Yes, thank you.
	Tom, I'm going to assume that your thesis is correct, that a Stargate is created by the introduction of trans humans.
	Now, with that being the case, I'm going to suggest two things.
	You mentioned Before I get to those suggestions, you mentioned early in this discussion the name of Jeffrey Smith, who was on last night with Ian Punnett.
	Now, he was talking about genetically modified foods, and he was giving us information which suggests that people who eat them are actually having their gene structure transformed.
	In other words, they are becoming transhumans, which, according to your theory, would make them susceptible to these extraterrestrial, demonic, extradimensional, whatever you want to call them, forces.
	Now, here are my two suggestions.
	Setting aside everything that happens on coast-to-coast that's controversial, from your standpoint as a man who was a pastor and who has a doctorate in divinity, From your standpoint, you have an obligation to come on this show, setting aside the controversial, and advocate that there be a coast-to-coast AM discussion group in every Christian church in America!
	Because just as Richard C. Hoagland said last week on this program, This time of night is when the brightest people in the world are awake!
	The brightest people in America, and certainly the brightest people in Christian America.
	So, why aren't they doing what the Scriptures themselves say?
	That they should be watchmen in the midnight, preparing to tell the people, Forget about the controversy that comes on coast-to-coast.
	What about the good stuff that comes on here, the necessary, vital information?
	And why aren't you advocating the formation of these kinds of clubs in every church?
	Well, you are, Michael.
	I don't know.
	You want to advocate that, Tom?
	Well, I've been advocating, and I appreciate everything he has said, I've been advocating the interest of people to pay attention to these issues for more than 10 years.
	That's why I've written two books about it.
	It's why I've been reporting on it as well as has Jeffrey Smith.
	That's why I interviewed Jeffrey Smith on some other radio programs to talk about what might the impact on our environment be.
	There's not just a a potential spiritual quality to this. There could be a
	very practical environmental quality to this. And I'll tell you what, I hope that in the end we
	don't learn what I call the brundle fly lesson. You think about that old film, the
	movie, The Fly.
	Yes.
	Seth Brundle, who's conducting these teleportation experiments, he accidentally has his DNA combined with a common housefly during a teleportation experiment.
	That's right.
	Alright, Tom, we've got to stop here.
	Your book is Nephilim Stargates, the year 2012, and The Return of the Watchers, and that's the exit point for us, my friend.
	Tom, thank you for being on the program.
	Bart, thank you for having me on.
	Good night my friend.
	Alright everybody, that's it for this weekend.
	I'll be interested in the emails to see what you took away from this program.
	In the meantime, everybody have a good week ahead and here in the Bell Household we're hoping we make it through to June 1st.

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