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Dec. 28, 2006 - Art Bell
02:38:40
Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Graham Hancock - Supernaturals and Consciousness
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From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you are, whatever you're doing, whatever time zone you're in, this program covering all of the world, coast to coast, shore to shore, no matter where you are, we've got you covered on Coast to Coast AM.
I'm Art Bell, and it is my honor.
And my privilege to be filling in for George Norrie this night and tomorrow night.
And then, of course, the predictive weekend upcoming.
That's right.
The predictive weekend upcoming.
And if you're sitting there right now probably wondering, is this a rerun?
The answer is no.
We're live.
Yes, we're going to be doing predictions for For 2007, coming up, and I've got a lot to tell you about.
Now, I don't know how sharp some of you are.
A lot of you are pretty sharp.
I don't know what you caught there at the beginning, but there was no mistake.
I'm sure a lot of people are sitting there writing emails right now.
Hey Art, what are you talking about from the high desert in the great American Southwest?
What are you talking about?
Well, I meant exactly what I said.
Guess what, folks?
I'm home.
I finished the program on, let me see, when was it?
I've got to get my dates straight.
Dealing with the dates in the Philippines, I did a show on the 25th and then on the 26th Aaron and I flew to the United States.
Aaron, now I didn't want to tell you about this.
This is one of those things that you've got going on and you don't want to talk about until it happens and it's generally something that takes between a year and a year and a half to get done.
Erin is now an official immigrant to the United States.
A legal immigrant to the United States.
She will ultimately have her green card.
That's in the works.
And so, guess what, folks?
We flew back!
So, Erin is here, and oh my God, what a greeting!
I've got so much to tell you about.
Yes, we flew back.
A 15-hour flight that leaves Manila, travels all the way across the Pacific Ocean, lands in Vancouver, British Columbia, where they kind of put you in this little jail, this little room, and you remain there for about an hour, and then you get back on the plane, and you come to Las Vegas!
Now, a number of things occur.
I am about as jet-lagged as a human being can be, and of course so is Aaron.
We're both jet-lagged to the hilt.
This would be a time that we would normally be asleep.
We both have colds.
An absolute inevitable... Actually, I had my cold a few days before the flight, but it's still inevitable.
And Aaron has a cold as well.
Poor girl.
And then, to top it off, When we arrived here, you know, I had told her about the great southwest and the great weather.
It normally, you know, is up around 68, 70 degrees during the day.
Well, let me tell you.
The current outside temperature right now is 39.4 and we're getting about 55 miles an hour of wind.
So, the effective temperature out there to the skin is about zero.
As you might imagine, I've been living near the equator for the last eight months, and so my body has become accustomed to a mid to upper 80s with 100% humidity, as of course, you know, Erin is a native of the Philippines, so you can imagine her.
She got here and we've got 55 miles an hour of wind going on the first night, down to about 20 degrees, and she's going, oh my god!
This is freezing!
And I'm going to tell you the absolute truth.
I always level with my audience.
We got here.
We were so tired.
I didn't really get any sleep on the airplane.
My usual plan didn't work at all.
So I didn't get any sleep, and we walked into the house, sat down, looked at each other, and I said to Aaron, come on, let's go home.
Meaning back to Manila.
Now, It's just one of those things.
I mean, I just about converted, and I'm used to warmer weather and different things, and I got back here, and I went, oh my God!
Now, the kitty cats, all three, Abby, Abby Dose, Yeti, and our new one, Dolly, are being held in great comfort By a very good friend that I made in Manila, that we made, Aaron and I made, whose name is Shirley Fish.
Now, many of you on the Fantastic Forum will know her as Fish.
She's an expatriate who lives in Manila, and Shirley had been a friend of ours, and we'd talked to her even before I ever arrived in Manila.
She's been there many years.
And so she's got the kitty cats, they are due to ship on the 8th of January, and we miss them terribly!
Terribly!
So, cats, if you can hear my voice, because I know Shirley listens there in Manila, probably can't, but just in case you guys can hear me, you're coming to the U.S.
Now we will see as the days go on.
We're beginning slowly, slowly to get things set up here.
All of this is so new for Erin.
You can imagine the culture shock that she's going through.
I went through one when I got to the Philippines, but then I kind of adjusted over eight months.
Erin, as you know, is from Mininao, which is a southern island in the Philippines, and I brought her to Manila, where we have our condo.
Now, a condominium is really nice because you can sort of just close it up, turn off the power, and a couple of utilities, and walk away, and it's safe as can be.
So we still have our condominium in Manila.
Everything is set up.
All the ham gear is there.
If I want to operate ham radio, I'm going to have to buy some new gear here.
I left it there.
Getting it through customs once was rough enough.
I won't go for twice.
So here I am.
Surprise, surprise.
Back, ladies and gentlemen, in the high desert.
How Aaron will do, and for that matter, how I will do over time, we'll find out.
But I thought we'd give it a try.
Most Americans who have never immigrated a spouse to the U.S., well, the average wait time is about a year and a half to get it all done.
And I didn't want to say anything to you until we had that accomplished.
And there are a lot of people to thank for that.
So, tell you what, we will take a short break, and then we'll be right back.
And when we get back, we'll take a look at the usual sour world news.
So, we'll be right back.
Alright, I had to prepare to do all this very quickly and we kind of,
you know, just lashed it all together.
But my thanks to everybody at Premier who had anything at all to do with getting all of this ready.
It's an amazing feat.
I mean, it's just absolutely an amazing feat.
None of the old way.
That I was doing it is viable, is still viable.
So we had to sort of lash things together and what a great job of lashing they did.
And I had to get things like my clock back and I've got that back.
I've got this special clock that operates by the internet and shows me an exact time.
You may have seen a picture of it.
I have not put any new picture up on the On the website yet, and the reason I've not done that is because I didn't want to give away what was going on.
As I'm speaking to you, I'm doing a few adjustments here, so bear with me.
Looking at the world, looks like Saddam's time has just about come as Saddam Hussein's lawyer made a last ditch effort to impede his execution Thursday.
The White House was preparing for the ousted dictator to be hanged as early as this weekend.
However, there are differing accounts of when that ought to occur.
The Iraq Deputy Justice Minister said Saddam shouldn't be hanged for yet another few weeks.
He says the law does not say within 30 days.
It says after a lapse of 30 days.
And they're getting ready because they know there's going to be trouble when they hang him.
There's going to be more trouble.
Less pomp, more circumstance for Gerald R. Ford.
The state funeral is missing some of the grandeur of the one, for example, for Ronald Reagan a couple of years ago.
That would be a reflection of the 38th president's modest ways, lesser imprint on the nation.
But nevertheless, it is an American president who is gone.
And he deserves everything he gets.
New Year's travelers jammed the Denver Airport Thursday trying to get out of town ahead of a snowstorm they all know that is going to threaten to close runways and gum up the nation's busy holiday travel season yet again.
Now I don't know whether it's linked to this particular storm that we're having or not, but I'm telling you the winds out there are just roaring and I suspect it may be in one way or another linked to it.
A peace activist Cindy Sheehan and four other protesters were arrested Thursday for blocking a road near President Bush's ranch.
Sheehan and others lay in or sat on the road for about 20 minutes, didn't heed requests to move, so the Texas Department of Safety has dealt with them.
Seems a giant ice shelf, get this, the size of 11,000 football fields, has snapped free from Canada's Arctic.
Nobody knew it.
The mass of ice broke clear 16 months ago from the coast of Ellesmere Island, about 497 miles south of the North Pole, but there was no one there to see it.
Canada's very remote up there.
Scientists using satellite images later noticed that it had become a newly formed ice island.
In just about an hour, left a trail of icy boulders floating in its wake, Warwick Vincent of Lavelle University, who studies Arctic conditions, traveled to the newly formed ice island and his jaw dropped.
He could not believe what he saw.
Now, we're going to go to open lines here in a few moments, so if you have any comments, feel free to join one of the known portals and call in and I'll get you on the air.
The experts have some predictions for 2007.
Now, my opinion is that the psychic group of you out there that are really good, and many of you are very good, probably are going to do better than the experts, but we'll see.
A permanently manned base on the moon?
Memory implants in the brain?
The rise of a Chinese scientific superpower?
An unlimited pollution-free energy?
These are all predictions for the future from a group of 50 eminent British scientists.
Meanwhile, back here in the U.S., a political science professor at the University of Alabama has asked his colleagues to help him compile his own annual list of predictions.
Two of the best-known presidential hopefuls will drop out of the race in 2007.
Remember, these are predictions.
Sales of hybrid and diesel fuel cars will increase as American car manufacturers make a dramatic comeback.
Now, that's great.
Senior citizens will join the I Am Generation, according to the 26th edition of Educated Guesses, a series of annual predictions offered by the University of Alabama.
By the end of 2007, Two of the current frontrunners for president, Clinton, Obama, Giuliani, McCain, will have dropped out of the race or decided against entering, predicts political science professor David Leno.
Sales of hybrids will continue to increase in 2007, even though diesel engines are the most fuel efficient on the open road.
Technology expert Barry Joe Price says the use of instant messaging will go gray in 2007.
That's interesting.
Saying the immediacy of communication like cell phones and IM will move into the senior
generation as more older Americans use communication devices that allow more mobile, immediate
This means you can get your dad a Blackberry next Christmas.
And it goes on and on.
Doug Gilbert, another political scientist, thinks the U.S.
will reduce the number of troops in Iraq, in part with the help of Iran.
He says Iran will play a major role in the drawdown of U.S.
troops in Iraq.
Hmm.
Much of the insurgency seems to be driven by Iranian support.
Seems likely the U.S.
will have to reach some sort of power-sharing arrangement with Iran in order to remove troops from the region.
He also thinks that a regime change in North Korea is much more likely in 2007.
That would be nice.
While regime changes are incredibly difficult to predict, the recent testing of a nuclear device may be an indication of the relative weakness of the North Korean leader.
The pursuit of nuclear weapons may be a maneuver to reinforce the legitimacy of the current regime internally.
Well, alright, that's as much and as far as I want to go.
Oh, there is one more thing.
There is one more thing.
Unbelievable!
As we were flying in the air, there was a gigantic earthquake that occurred off southwestern Taiwan, triggering a potentially destructive tsunami that was in fact headed toward the island where I was in the Philippines.
It was a 7.2 earthquake in Taiwan, and guess what it did?
It destroyed all the communications to the Philippines.
And I mean all of them.
Aaron couldn't even call home.
It would have meant, in fact, that had I remained in the Philippines, I would not be on the air right now.
Because the ISDN line, which was, you know, it utilized fiber, of course, Was totally destroyed.
So it'll take two or three weeks, they're saying, to get everything back in shape.
Now, Erin reached her sister a little earlier today, but I've been trying to call Shirley, the gal who has our cat.
She did email me, they're fine.
And all I get is, uh, all circuits are busy.
So whatever routing they've done to get any calls or communications to that part of the world, is kind of sketchy kind of iffy and uh... what a surprise there was a three-foot tsunami now that doesn't sound like much three feet
But if you're already at sea level, a three-foot tsunami could pretty well sweep an awful lot of stuff right away.
All right, I tell you what we're going to do.
We're going to start taking some calls.
Let's go west of the Rockies and say, hello there.
You're on the air.
Hello, Mr. Bell.
My name is Rick.
I'm a cab driver here in Vegas, and I just want to be the first to welcome you home.
Right over the hill from me.
Thank you, buddy.
It's great to be here.
I have listened to you for ages.
I used to own a couple of video stores here in Vegas, and my late night hours were with listening to you, and Area 51 hasn't been the same since you left.
Well, here I am right back in Pahrump, my friend.
So, what a surprise, huh?
No, Kit, man, you shocked me.
I mean, I was driving, and when you said that, I caught it at the beginning, and I go, no, this is a tape, delay, replay, whatever.
You know what?
I had to correct that very quickly, because I knew when I said, from the great American Southwest, you know, and so on and so on, a lot of people would immediately say, this is a replay.
Yeah, and you know, you guys are blessed.
You got out of there with your family before that terrible earthquake.
My God, what a strange coincidence or fate?
Which one do you think it is?
I don't know.
I use, we use now here in the U.S., T-Mobile.
And this was very interesting, you know, for our cell phones.
And of course, one of the first things that Aaron wanted to do was call home.
And so we put the appropriate chips in our phone, converted them to T-Mobile, we've got these nice new Sonys, and tried to go home, and we couldn't get through.
And so I spent an hour on the phone with T-Mobile, and they escalated it up and up and up, and finally a guy said, well, there was a gigantic earthquake, and nobody's getting through to the Philippines.
And then I went to the web and started reading about it, and sure enough, my God, all the fiber got cut.
Yeah.
Oh, my.
Well, you know what, Art?
Merry Christmas, belated.
Happy New Year.
Good luck with you and your new baby when you have it.
And next time I visit Pahrump, I'm going to put a banner on my cab and say, Hi, Art.
Welcome home.
Thanks, buddy.
You got it, man.
Have a great New Year, buddy.
Glad to be home.
All right, you too.
Take care.
That's pretty cool.
That was right over the hill, of course, in Las Vegas.
East of the Rockies, you are on the air.
Hello, Ed of Talk.
This is Matt in Michigan, Flint, Michigan to be exact, where it's exactly 31 degrees with about a 20 mile an hour wind.
And so I somewhat empathize That's cold.
That's cold.
But it's not as cold as it is... I'm telling you, man, it is... in a 55 mile an hour wind, you get down to freezing and it feels like sub-zero out there.
Oh, it does.
And I've experienced that many a time here in this locale.
I wanted to ask you, Art, if you've ever heard of... the first thing I wanted to call your attention to is something called the Tree of Life.
Do you know what the Tree of Life is?
You know, it's the coconut tree.
I've heard of that.
The coconut tree.
Of course.
I should know that, shouldn't I?
Listen, I'm at a break point here.
Can you hold on?
That pays for everything, you know.
All right, stay right where you are.
We'll be right back.
Yes, ladies and gentlemen, I'm back in the high desert adjacent to Area 51 and I'm Art Bell.
Great to be with you.
That's right, from the Kingdom of Nye.
If you missed the beginning of the program, from the high desert in the great American Southwest, right around the corner from Area 51, I'm home.
And yes, Aaron is with me, and all is well in the world, with the exception of the fact that I ought to be asleep right now, and I'm jet-lagged, and I've got a cold.
All those things aside, we have accomplished the unbelievable.
In fact, We wanted to surprise everybody, and I think we achieved it.
I only called a couple of friends and let them know very nearly at the last moment.
Otherwise, this was a very closely held secret.
Back to our East of the Rockies line.
If you're still there, you're on the air again.
I certainly am, Art.
And welcome back once again.
The tree of life, the coconut tree, You see, I've been rehabbing my elderly mother for the last four years from a combination of stroke and heart failure due to congestive heart failure.
So I've learned a lot.
I've met some very interesting progressive health care people.
And what do they say about coconuts?
Indeed, I have to qualify this by telling you That in your neck of the woods, as it were, you have a retired Air Force flight doctor, Ward Dean, M.D., and with your permission, I want to tell you about his company, because... No, well, I want to be careful here.
We can't turn it into a commercial, but I mean, what's the whole thing here?
What does Coconut do?
Okay, there's three things.
It has biochemicals, which when consumed, From organic virgin coconut oil, not the refined, it has to be the organic virgin coconut oil.
I hear you.
It tastes like coconut cream pie right out of the jar.
The biochemicals that are in it, one class of them convert into an amazingly potent antibiotic that we all got if we breastfed from our mothers when we were infants.
Okay, those same biochemicals are present in coconut oil and become the same potent immune system enhancers as found in colostrum.
The second thing, it normalizes thyroid function.
The third thing, another class of biochemicals are used when we consume it to produce the master hormone of our bodies called pregnenolone.
So it does all three things.
I love them.
You know, and of course they're everywhere in the Philippines and what somebody does is you just shake it, they come down, you take a big machete.
When I was down on Mininal, my wife's brother did that for me.
You just slam them open, you drink, and then you eat.
Sure.
And the other thing I want to tell you about, this fella, as well as Wardeen, would make an excellent guest, but this fella, Charles McGee, MD, authored a book, Healing Energies of Heat and Light.
Well, based on the evidence that he presents, it's a light technology that he brought over from a French medical doctor, Nogier, who actually invented this in the 60s, when he discovered that it was all about frequency in the human body, that different types of tissue emanate a signature I can buy into all that.
We don't have time for a lot of it here, but I'll tell you what.
Email me, if you would please, artbell at mindspring.com or artbell at aol.com and I'll look into the whole thing and we'll even look into the possibility of a guest appearance.
We'll do the best we can.
I know that you're right about coconuts.
Aaron has told me all kinds of things about the healing benefits of coconuts, so I totally buy into it.
Let's go to one of the wildcard lines, number four, actually, and say, howdy, you're on the air.
Hello, welcome back to the United States.
Thank you so very much.
Yes, I just wanted to talk to you, I've talked to you over the summer about the weather, especially around the Chicago area.
Right now it is 43 degrees in the middle of, well the end of December, almost 2007.
We had record rain this summer, and I mean record, broke all records.
It's warmer there than it is, it's warmer.
Yeah.
What's going on with our weather?
There's no ice anywhere, I mean anywhere.
I'm going to have to cut my grass tomorrow.
I'm 45 years old and I've never had to do this ever in my life.
You're going to cut your grass in Chicago?
Yeah.
We had one snow and a couple of frosts and it's grown that much since I think October when I put it away.
Good Lord.
I mean it's brownish green but it's grown enough that I'm going to have to cut it.
That's incredible.
And here we've got You know, I'm sitting here with a much lower temperature than you and 55 mile an hour winds to sort of hurry it along.
Now, that storm that's coming off the Pacific right now is a whopper, as we call it, because we're going to get it tomorrow and into Saturday.
But, you know, I'm a driver at night and I listen to you forever.
And, you know, you've kept me up so many nights and got me through some bad nights, I tell you.
But in all honesty, things are changing.
This is a warning a blind man could see.
I know, and Spit, thank you very much.
And speaking of all that you know, I'm hearing, and it may or may not be true, that the administration is warming to global warming.
That's what somebody on the news said earlier, that they're taking, they're about to take some new stance on global warming.
And it's about time.
And anybody who doesn't know that we're going through severe changes with weather, Has their head in the sand.
I mean, seriously, has their head in the sand.
We're really going through it, folks.
First time caller line, you're on the air.
Art?
Yes, sir.
Hello, Art.
First time listener, long time caller, no idea.
I had to say that to you.
Listen, man, you really pulled one off.
Son of a gun.
I had no idea.
I had no idea that you were going to be back here.
I got to tell you, pal.
I felt cheated when, if I may put it that way, when you headed over to the Philippines.
I can't blame you under the circumstances, but I felt let down and so forth, and my gosh, when You said you were back.
Holy smoke, man, you made my whole week!
I pulled off surprise, didn't I?
You really did.
This sounds corny, but I got goosebumps.
I'm so damn glad you're back.
I tell you, pal, and someday I'd love to meet you and sit down and just chat, because you're my kind of guy.
By the way, are you going to now be playing Crystal Gale's sign-off?
You know what?
Thank you for mentioning that, and hello there, studio.
If you've got it, do it.
When we sign tonight, midnight in the desert would be most appropriate.
It's beautiful.
I've missed that so much.
Anyway, God bless you and your young bride and your kiddies and so forth, and I am so pleased, and I'm sure I echo the feelings of thousands of people.
Bless your heart.
That'll be it for now, and good on you, my friend.
Good on you.
Take care, bud.
Yeah, it was a lot of work to do all of this.
You really can't know how much we did.
In terms of getting the immigration done, that's very serious stuff.
There are a lot of Americans out there who know how serious it is.
We have a big illegal immigration problem, as we all know, but legally immigrating somebody is a very serious, very complicated, very lengthy Process and so I just sort of kept my mouth shut as we were doing all of that and And I got it done and then I kept my mouth shut with return plans and with the flight and I kind of did it in between Shows, I mean that's unbelievable.
I even I cannot believe that we achieved it and we achieved surprise from one side of the world to the other like that and There are consequences, though, to doing that, like getting a cold, like getting jet-lagged, like now being awake when I should be asleep.
It'll probably take me about two weeks to adjust to that fact.
Let's go to another wildcard line and say, hello, you're on the air.
How you doing, Art?
Well, I sort of just described that.
Yeah, well, I'm sure you'll be better really soon.
It's great to hear you on a Thursday night.
I grew up listening to you.
My dad had you on every night.
I just wanted to say welcome back to the U.S.
and I never thought I'd be calling you while you were in the Kingdom of Nye.
It worries me when people call me and say things like I grew up listening to you.
I did.
That's the truth.
Okay.
All right.
Well, here I am back adjacent to Area 51 once again.
back adjacent to Area 51 once again.
Yep. Just wanted to say welcome back.
Alright, well you did and thank you very very much for the call.
You take care.
It's quite something.
We're going to take a quick break and continue with calls.
Well, all right.
Let us continue.
See, they can warn me about a break.
I have a way of, you know, I'm so anxious with what I'm doing that I just plow right along and I'm liable to forget the breaks and that's very costly for everybody concerned.
First time caller line, you're on the air.
Hi Art.
Hello.
My name's Robert.
I'm out of Reno, Nevada, the Upper Upper High Desert.
Welcome back.
Thank you.
Did you go through the big windstorm we're getting?
Oh yeah, I went through it last night.
I drive truck over Donner Summit every night and boy I tell you what, going over that with a sheet of ice and about 60 mile an hour winds was a real treat.
Yeah, exactly.
You can imagine my poor wife, and for that matter, me too, I'm used to high 80s and 100% humidity, and here I get home, and I've been telling Aaron how beautiful the desert usually is during the winter, during the day anyway, and here it is, freezing or below, with, as you said, 55, 60 mile an hour winds, my God!
Oh yeah, it was absolutely chaotic going over the hill, and it's going to be 12 degrees at the airport in Reno tonight, so it's going to be quite chilly.
I'm actually in Sacramento right now, and it's supposed to get down into 30 degrees tonight in Sacramento, which is unheard of.
Our weather's going nuts.
I'm sorry, my question Art is, I'm a ham radio operator, I just did tech class, and I heard you say on the 25th that there was a no I can't answer that question.
I have not looked into it sufficiently to be able to tell you.
10 meters isn't all that much open at the moment in this part of the Sun cycle, but I'll look into it and I'll get that on the air for you.
I appreciate it.
Thanks, sir.
Welcome back.
Thank you, buddy.
Take care.
I'll see what I can find out.
There are so many changes going on.
Expansion of the phone bands and the dropping of the code requirement for licenses.
Mixed feelings about that one, but I think overall, better than not.
Well, to the Rockies, you are on the air.
Well, as soon as I get it right here, you're on the air.
Let's try it again.
For some reason, I'm not bringing it up.
Let me try yet again.
No, let's bring up the west of the Rockies if you can do it from there.
Okay, I see.
All right, we'll try east of the Rockies then, and you are on the air.
Hi.
Hi, Art.
It's nice to hear your voice.
This is Bruce from warm Jersey City, New Jersey.
Warm?
Very warm.
Sixty degrees today, I think.
Well, what are you doing with sixty degrees at this time of the year in New Jersey?
I wanted to ask you, do you think George is testing out Phil Bell's holograph machine?
I don't know.
Now, did he say he was going to do that?
Is that what he was going to do with it?
Yeah, Phil said he was going to send them both machines to try out and George is going to give us a report on it.
I see.
Well, then maybe he is.
You know, I was flying around the world, so what do I know?
He said it's pretty amazing.
It's this guy, I didn't know him until Bell.
I guess you're not related to him.
He's a fascinating guy.
Are you familiar with his work?
I interviewed him years ago.
Oh, there you go.
You know what he's into.
But man, this guy's out there.
I mean, he's just amazing.
And you talk about high energy.
I mean, when he had the interview, he was just going, going, going like he was doing lines of coke.
I'm telling you, it was unbelievable.
He was like... Yeah, a lot of energy.
And for a man his age, boy, that's pretty incredible.
I hear you.
I went on his website and looked at some of his stuff and his holographic team sounds just like out of this world.
I mean, maybe that's what it is.
He can go out of this world.
I don't know.
Well, maybe that's what... I hope that doesn't happen.
Now, I have no plans and no desire to be doing five days a week any longer, so take care of George, please, whoever it is doing this.
Take care of George.
Let's go to a wild card line and say you're on the air.
Maybe you're not.
We'll just use another wildcard line.
You're on the air.
Hi.
Hi, Nosebuckets.
Long time no talk.
Nosebuckets.
Yeah, no kidding.
Here I am with another cold.
Does that tell you how long I've been listening?
It does.
Years and years.
Yeah.
Something about your cold.
First of all, Coals do not take hold in an alkaline system.
Your system is over acid.
You should stay away from the sweets and the meats.
I can't do that.
I'm a meat eater.
Well, there's can't and won't, so it sounds like you won't.
You're right.
Okay, and I wanted to tell you, you're just full of surprises, aren't you?
I guess I am.
It looks like I pulled this one off pretty well.
I sat here just stunned.
I wanted to, for the longest time, I wanted to tell you a couple of things.
I've been a student of the Edgar Cayce material since 1959, and when you get to talking about levitation, you know, you've been talking about that lately on and off.
The pyramids supposedly were built through levitation according to the Casey material.
Well actually, I don't want to spoil it, but you know what the latest info is?
The latest information from the scientists says that what the Egyptians did was they poured the pyramids.
Not all of it.
The giant blocks, some of them were put there, but the higher blocks were actually poured, kind of like you would pour concrete.
Now, I don't know if that's true.
I mean, it's a scientific theory.
Maybe it was levitated, who knows?
I've got an article cut out, it's around the house here somewhere, where the Japanese were experimenting making iron, you know, float on steel, and so they apparently have been messing around with that also, so I think we're coming into an age where we're going to start discovering a whole lot of things about that type of thing.
Well, right.
I do agree with you, and there's always the Coral Castle as well, down in Florida.
Now, that was moved.
The man who built it moved it.
Nobody knows how he made it.
Nobody knows how he moved it.
And there may have been some sort of levitation, something definitely paranormal involved in that.
By the way, at the top of the hour, The grandfather of all that is old, Graham Hancock, is going to be here from Great Britain, and it's going to be very, very interesting.
I'm looking forward to that.
Let's go over the hill, just over the hill from me now in Las Vegas.
Richard, you are on the air.
Hello, Art.
Tom begged me not to be repetitive like everybody, but in my heart it's making me say, welcome back.
Thank you.
I called because a couple of weeks ago, You spoke of the now global availability of coast-to-coast through the internet and everything, but I tried that night to call you and say, Art, I think I was ahead of the curve.
I used to work, I was a technical operations manager for one of the major television networks, and I did a lot of broadcasts from overseas, and I could always Talk my satellite operators into taking a spare audio channel and piping you to me wherever I was.
St.
Petersburg, Moscow, Kuwait, you name it.
Well, we have some hours now on the Armed Forces Network, which gets it to Iraq and all of these out-of-the-way places.
Sometimes two o'clock in the afternoon, but I got you live!
If people knew what satellite channel that was... No, it was privately patched on an available circuit that we were not using.
They'd be all over it.
Believe me.
They loved you in Moscow.
No kidding.
And it's the time of year for calling in predictions, and I've been trying to think of one, but I'll tell you... I mean, I cannot officially record one, but unofficially, if you've got one, let's hear it.
No, I've got...
For 2006, you have earned the gotcha of the year with tonight's broadcast.
I see.
All right, thank you very much.
Yes, I suppose we did achieve surprise.
Had it been a war, I think we would have won.
Definite surprise.
All right, Graham Hancock is coming up after the break.
From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I'm Art Bell.
You heard correctly.
From the high desert, from the great American Southwest, I'm back, folks.
Snuck back in, well, I didn't sneak back into the country, but it certainly was a surprise.
Alright, coming up in a moment, Graham Hancock.
Graham, an old friend, has become recognized as an unconventional thinker.
He always has been, who raises legitimate questions about humanity's history and prehistory
and offers an increasingly popular challenge to the entrenched views of orthodox scholars.
He graduated from Durham University with first class honors in sociology, went on then to
pursue a career in quality journalism, writing for many of Britain's leading newspapers.
He is certainly an expert on the pyramids and everything in Egyptology.
It's interesting that we had a caller on the pyramids in the first hour.
Now that's not necessarily where we're going with tonight's program, but since the caller raised a question, since there are recent scientific findings indicating that the Egyptians may have actually poured the higher stones On the pyramids.
We'll ask about that.
We'll ask Graham about that in a moment.
If you ask Zahi Was about that, he would probably poke your eye out.
Coming up in a moment, Graham Hancock.
All the way to Europe, to Great Britain and Zahi... Zahi...
God's eye here on the mind.
Graham Hancock, welcome!
Hiya, good to hear your voice, lovely to talk to you again.
Good to hear your voice too, and it's good and clear.
Graham, just to get something out of the way, in the first hour, I had a caller about the pyramids, talking about levitation, and my comment to the caller was that there was some fairly recent scientific evidence, and I can't quote, I don't remember where it was from, Graham, but people have been suggesting that the top blocks on the pyramids, and they've sort of proven it, I guess, were poured much as you would pour concrete.
What do you think about that?
Okay, yeah, this is very interesting, and you're right, it is recent news.
It's out of a thing called the Geopolymer Institute in France, and it's associated with the research of a guy called Joseph Davidovits, who has been suggesting for many years now that the blocks, the limestone blocks of the Great Pyramid, and there's two and a half million of those blocks, That some or all of them may have been created as a kind of concrete, that they ground down the limestone fine, turned it into a slurry with water, poured that slurry into molds, so it was easy to carry up.
You needed to only carry up a jug full or a sack full at a time, pour it into molds, and those formed the blocks.
Now, there's obviously been a lot of opposition I haven't set my mind one way or another on this.
month there was new research published which seemed to endorse or support that view that
Egyptologists have previously completely discounted.
Now my position is I haven't set my mind one way or another on this.
I've climbed the Great Pyramid five times and I've had the opportunity to study very
closely many of the blocks, some of which are extremely eroded and broken.
And what you find when you look at some of these blocks is that there are actually fossils
trapped inside them.
These fossils are called pneumolites.
And it's difficult to see how a fossil could survive the grinding up process.
that would be necessary to create the slurry that was supposedly poured.
However...
You find the slurry even on the higher blocks?
Well, you see, this is the thing, because if the suggestion is that it's only on the
blocks, say, above 300 feet, the pyramid goes to 450 feet in height, actually originally
480 feet, if the argument is that it's only some of the blocks and not all of the blocks,
you know, that would require further research.
But my sense is, in any block where they find a fossil embedded in the rock, you're definitely not looking at concrete.
You're looking at an original block.
And another point, which is often missed, is that even if this turns out to be the case, that the ancient Egyptians had mastered a kind of concrete There are still huge issues about how they moved enormous stones.
For example, in the heart of the Great Pyramid you have the so-called King's Chamber, and although the majority of the Great Pyramid is indeed made out of limestone blocks weighing around two tons each, you find in the King's Chamber blocks of granite And these granite blocks weigh up to 70 tons each, so 7,000 kilograms each.
And there are hundreds of these blocks.
And these definitely were not the result of some kind of concrete technology.
We can say exactly where these blocks came from.
They came from quarries in Aswan, about 500 miles south of Giza, and they must have been brought on the Nile River.
on gigantic boats up to up to Giza.
So whether or not the smaller blocks were created by concrete, we still have to deal with the problem of how the ancient Egyptians managed to lift blocks of pure granite weighing 70 tons to heights of hundreds of feet above the ground and position them perfectly in place to construct this extraordinary geometrical puzzle called the King's Chamber.
So I think the concrete argument is extremely interesting.
it may provide an answer to the enormous scale. I mean two and a half million blocks of stone is an
awful lot of blocks of stone to lift and carry. If they could have
poured most of them that would have made their lives a whole lot easier. But it
still doesn't solve the problem of how they lifted these
these gigantic blocks, for example the granite blocks that I've just mentioned.
Well, as you know, Zahi would be very happy to hear you say that.
I'm sure he's at the very least chafing a great deal at these recent stories.
Well, if I know Zahi, and I've got to know him better over the years, he's not going to flatly resist scientific evidence which is being endorsed by other credentialed scientists, and that does seem to be the case here.
Other credentialed scientists have joined Davidovitz and have said, look, at least some of these blocks are poured from a kind of concrete.
And if they are, I don't think it, as I say, I don't think it changes the mystery very much.
It just says, OK, here's something new that we that we know about the ancient Egyptians.
But it's still those fossils, which I personally have seen with my own eyes in the heart of broken blocks, which say to me that certainly not all of the limestone blocks on the Great Pyramid were created this way.
Do you have any guesses, Graham, about how they in fact did get the obviously real blocks up to where they were?
I mean, nobody scientifically has ever said how it happened.
No, it's never been done.
I mean, the Egyptologists present us with this almost comic vision of, you know, tens of thousands of people hauling blocks on, you know, at the end of ropes.
But really, human labor cannot, you know, cannot haul a block weighing hundreds of tons.
Or even tens of tons on a slope more than 10 degrees.
And if you want a 10 degree slope to reach 300 feet up where the King's Chamber is, then that ramp, so-called ramp, is going to need to extend back nearly a mile into the desert and is actually going to involve more material in its construction than is found in the Great Pyramid itself.
Which sort of defies belief, really.
So then really, it's your position that a technology that we still don't understand was used?
Yeah, definitely.
I find that feeling reinforced every time I revisit the Great Pyramid, and I was back inside and all over the Great Pyramid in June this year, that there is something completely Extraordinary and inexplicable about that gigantic monument.
And, you know, no matter how much our scientists want to reduce all mystery in the world to nothing, they just can't do it with the Great Pyramid.
It keeps on presenting them with challenges that cannot be solved.
And those challenges are in your face.
They're right there.
You climb above the King's Chamber into the so-called relieving chambers above it, five chambers above the King's Chamber, and along the floor of each of those A row of gigantic 70-ton granite blocks placed perfectly in position with unbelievable precision.
And what it says to you in a very quiet, understated way is actually you are looking at something impossible here.
At least impossible in terms of our technology today.
So yes, I do think the ancient Egyptians were masters of a technology.
I very much doubt if it involved mechanical advantage and the way that we do things today.
The ancient Egyptians explored the spiritual dimensions of the human mind, perhaps more consistently than any other culture on the face of this earth, and I think they harnessed – this is just a hunch, I can't prove this, but it's just where my own reflections have taken me – that they harnessed some kind of energy of consciousness, some other way to use the human mind than the way we use it today.
Are there other examples, Graham, around the world of things that were built that probably required a similar and still not understood technology to be constructed?
Yes, there are, all over the world.
I mean, of course, the famous Trilithion in Baalbek in the Lebanon, where we find Really, I mean, just horrendously huge blocks of stone.
You're looking at blocks that weigh more than 1,000 tons there, which are placed into position in the lower walls of a temple.
Now, the upper part of the temple was built by the Romans, no doubt about that, but it seems that they built their temple on a foundation that was laid down long previously by a civilization that has passed beyond memory.
And you find this same phenomenon all over the world, up there in the Andes, in Peru and Bolivia.
You find work done by the Incas, founded on top of gigantic megalithic structures, which there is no evidence whatsoever that the Incas built.
It's just an assumption that this was the work of the Incas.
The later work, yes, it was their work, but the earlier work, these gigantic blocks of It's only an assumption that the Incas did that.
So it seems to me, all over the world, you find gigantic megalithic structures.
In the Pacific, too, there's another.
Trilithion looks like one of the classic Stonehenge structures on the island of Tonga in the middle of the Pacific.
Beats me how they moved those huge blocks of stone, much, much bigger than Stonehenge.
You find this all around the world.
It is a layer of mystery which our scientists and historians persist in ignoring and refusing to address because I suppose the notion of some forgotten civilization that may have been capable of these things It's just too hard to swallow for mainstream.
Well, another mystery, Graham, is there was not the kind of communication then that there is now.
In fact, there really wasn't any at all to these various parts of the world.
So, how did this technology, whatever the hell it was, proliferate?
Well, see, I've always felt that there probably was more communication, and I'm really speaking in deep prehistoric times here.
Rather than simply in the historical period, although I do think that even in the historical period of the last 5,000 years, people were traveling the globe much more widely than they're given credit for.
But I do think that ideas have circulated around the world, sometimes very quickly, and I do think that there was an ancient seafaring culture which may have carried these ideas around.
Could be.
And here's another question for you before we move into what we're going to talk about tonight, and that is, do you think it's possible, Graham, now we know about the Egyptians, for example, their artifacts still remain and will for a long time, but is there a prehistory for the world, do you think, Graham, that includes civilizations that existed long ago and then virtually all traces of them, by whatever happened, We're wiped out.
Is that possible?
Yeah, I do, and that's the main thesis of my earlier book, the book I published in 1995 called Fingerprints of the Gods, that there is evidence for an earlier high civilization which was capable of astounding technological feats, but I would definitely place certain margins around that.
I would not wish to To trace such a civilization back to 200 or 400,000 years ago.
I don't believe it's likely to go back earlier than 30,000 years.
And I think it was gone by 12,000 years ago.
I have very specific reasons for thinking that.
But it's pretty clear that the world passed through a horrendous episode of cataclysm at the end of the last ice age.
And the funny thing is that mainstream science recognizes That the last Ice Age existed, recognizes that it came to an end, recognizes that the end of the Ice Age was accompanied by cataclysmic events on a global scale, but never considers that amidst that global cataclysm we may have lost an entire civilization and have become a species with amnesia which remembers that civilization only in myths and legends.
The reason I ask this is because look at all we have built.
Look at all the skyscrapers.
Would it be possible that some cataclysm could come along in this world, in modern times, and a couple of hundred thousand years from now, there could be some form of life, speculating and wondering as we are right now, About whether there really were these big buildings and whether there really was a civil... In other words, could we be wiped out?
Yeah, we could be the last civilization of the future.
First of all, could we be wiped out?
Yes, definitely.
The most likely agency of that disaster will be the human race itself.
If you look at the greed and the hatred and the vile behavior that's sweeping the world right now, the incredible madness and chaos The most likely agent of our own destruction is ourselves and our greedy, dishonest politicians who mislead us on a road to darkness.
That is the most likely cause of our destruction.
But there's plenty of other causes that Mother Nature offers as well.
We know that a gigantic asteroid called Apophis is going to pass within 22,000 miles of the
Earth around about the year 2029.
22,000 miles is an incredibly narrow margin in astronomical terms, and if there's even
the slightest miscalculation on the orbit, we could find that huge asteroid colliding
with the Earth and literally sterilizing it of life within the lifetime of many listeners
to this radio show.
And what's scary is how many other objects of this size and scale that repeatedly and
routinely cross the orbit of the Earth.
How many more of these things are there out there?
The answer is, we just don't know.
And we could be swatted like a fly, frankly, at any moment.
And once you realize that, then it puts, I think it puts into a stark perspective, the nature of human society today and how much How much we as a species, how much we are wasting this incredible gift of life and intelligence and consciousness that we have been given, and how desperately we need to concentrate on creating a positive and healing society, which perhaps then could respond in a realistic manner to these random threats that are out there in the universe.
I saw a Discovery special, and they showed what would happen if a big rock hit.
And what would happen is, it would literally spread fire around the entire planet to the point that it would kill everything right down to microorganisms.
There would be nothing left at all on the surface of the planet.
Nothing.
And the only survival of any microorganisms would be somewhere underground, somewhere between the horrible surface temperatures that would exist and the horrible interior temperatures that exist inside the planet.
So there would be this small area Where it would be just cool enough for microorganisms, they said, to exist, and then someday, some way, make it to a cooler surface, maybe hundreds of thousands of years later, and repopulate the Earth with life.
The process of evolution would begin all over again.
I mean, life bounces back, but we and all our works would be gone.
And it is a scary prospect how How easily that could happen.
But, you know, I think I need to emphasize again, the greatest threat to our future comes from ourselves.
And we need to deal with that first.
We need to deal with our own backyard and then start looking at other ways to make the Earth a safe place.
Graham, we appear to be destroying the Earth right now.
We are blindly marching towards the edge of the abyss.
It is unbelievable.
I've spent quite a bit of time in the Amazon over the last two years, and when I see what is happening to the Amazon, the madness, the craziness that is leading to the destruction of this extraordinary rainforest, I find myself wondering, is mankind going to make it?
I'm not sure.
Okay, we're at a break point.
I do want to talk a little bit about the Amazon, then we'll move on to really what we want to talk about tonight, which is fascinating stuff.
But the Amazon, I can't pass that one up, all right?
My guest tonight is Graham Hancock.
He's simply the best.
From the high desert?
That's right, the high desert!
I'm Art Bell.
You heard correctly.
The kingdom of Nigh.
My God, I love Abba.
There's never gonna be Another Abba.
There just isn't.
Graham Hancock is here, and he really is the man.
He raised the subject of the Amazon.
He's got a new book called Supernatural.
Simply Supernatural.
And we're going to talk about that.
It's going to lead us in directions that I think are really going to surprise you.
But in a moment just prior to doing that we're going to ask about
the Amazon It is painfully obvious
even to the The uninitiated out there and now scientifically there is a
nearly unanimous opinion That we're going through a giant change in climate.
Right now.
It's happening now.
The North Pole is melting.
These are not minor matters.
And now the Amazon, which has been called... Amazon has been referred to by many people as the lungs of the planet.
And Graham, you said you did some observing in the Amazon.
How bad is it?
Well, yes.
And the reason I've been involved with the Amazon is because of the research for my new book, Supernatural.
So these subjects are intimately connected.
And what I can say is, it's very, very bad.
It's extremely bad what's happening in the Amazon.
There are issues of climate change that are directly affecting the Amazon, and we know that the source of that, a lot of it, is in the grossly wasteful uses of energy in the industrialized countries and the
effects that those are having on the environment. Thus, we actually had a drought in the Amazon
in 2005. The River Amazon, this gigantic ocean of a river running 4,000 miles to the sea,
filled with extraordinary creatures.
This Amazon River, in long sections of its length, ran dry, completely dry, and steamers
were marooned on the floor of the river and countless millions of fish and other creatures
of the Amazon died. This one we can put down to global climate change. But there's something
else that's happening in the Amazon that we have to put down to the materialist ethic
that dominates the Amazon.
The world today which which looks at things purely in terms of short term economic profit and doesn't look at things in terms of the long term and of the world that we're going to pass on to our grandchildren.
Because what is happening in Amazon now because of economic pressures is that huge areas of the rainforest are being cut down so that that land can be turned into soya bean farms.
This is just, to me, an unbelievable mistake that the human race is making.
Just a very bad deal that we're getting for ourselves.
People in the Amazon region are desperately poor.
And when people are poor, they naturally, like any of us would do, will do anything to protect and feed their families.
And right now, the jobs that are available on these soybean farms, growing soybeans to provide cattle feed, So that all of us in the industrialized countries can eat hamburgers.
Now, the thing about rainforests is that rainforests refertilize themselves.
The soil of the forest itself may not be very good, but by the constant fall of leaves and vegetation, it's an endlessly recyclable process that refertilizes itself and keeps the fertility of the rainforest.
The moment you cut the trees down, you're left with the fertility of the soil itself, and that is not very great.
So within 10 to 15 years, these soybean farms cease to work.
They can't produce any more nutrition from the land and the land goes dead and it'll never, never, never be used again.
Incredible mistake.
I often think that really, since the world is driven by economics, The best thing that the industrialized countries could do about the Amazon would be to pay the people of the Amazon to preserve it as a garden for the world and indeed as the lungs of the world.
To pay them a good economic rate so that it was in their rational best interest to ensure that not another tree was cut down.
Because we need those trees a million times more than we need these soya beans.
But somehow that calculation Cannot be made.
Our politicians don't seem to have the courage or the guts to do it.
I did a back of an envelope calculation and roughly six months of current expenditure in Iraq would solve the problem of the Amazon forever.
We are such a dark and destructive species that we would rather spend that money, those billions and billions of dollars, we would rather spend it on a conflagration in the Middle East than spend it on preserving the Amazon, on paying the people of the Amazon a good economic rate to garden and preserve that rainforest as a resource for
the whole world.
Somehow we just can't make that leap and it's very sad.
What it comes down to, ultimately, we are a species that has severed our connection with
spirit.
We have lost our spiritual roots.
And because of that, we can't hear the voices of the trees crying out.
We can't sense the great entity that the Amazon represents, the loving and nurturing entity that provides so much to
this planet.
We just can't sense that.
We can't hear it.
We can't see it anymore.
We're blind and deaf and dumb.
And we go in there with our machines and we cut it down and we turn it into short-term economic gain to produce, for God's sake, soya beans so we can eat hamburgers.
Crazy as well.
I hear, Graham, that Brazil built a road, built a road through the Amazon rainforest which facilitates the farmers moving further and further into the rainforest.
Absolutely, absolutely.
And all of this is being driven By economic need, which is perfectly easy to understand, and all that is needed is a decision to meet those economic needs for the world to recognize that we cannot live without the Amazon.
We cannot live without it.
We must preserve it.
And since economic need, desperate economic need, is driving the people of the Amazon region to cut this incredible resource down, let's meet their economic needs to preserve that resource for us.
And those roads need never be built, and the forest can remain forever.
And it's just a simple matter of switching priorities.
You know, let's stop spending money on destruction and start spending it on preservation.
But it seems to be the hardest thing to do in this crazy world we live in right now.
Well, I really don't want to send this in a political direction, but it's almost impossible not to.
The administration here in the United States is beginning, apparently, to wake up To the climate change.
I'm hearing slight changes that are beginning to come from the administration.
But it's not enough.
It's not going to be enough.
Honestly, Graham, I don't think we're going to turn this around.
We're on a self-destructive course.
And it's not just the Amazon, though it's incredibly important, it's worldwide.
China, for example, wants everything that we have, and they will have it soon!
You bet.
They're grabbing it with both fists.
And it's happening in India also.
And again, you know, at an individual level, we can't blame people for wanting to improve their lives.
And yet, at a species level, we know this is disaster.
This is doom that we're heading for.
And that's why I feel, and many, many other people feel and have felt for some time, that what is needed, the only thing that can save us, is a gigantic shift in human consciousness.
A whole new way of looking at the mystery of life, or perhaps a very old way that we need to recover.
And the question is, can that shift in consciousness come about?
Shows like yours play a great part in raising consciousness.
More and more people are aware.
Of where we're going, and unfortunately there are billions who are not, but the number of those who really feel that a change must come and must happen is growing.
So I see hope in that, but it's going to take a shift in consciousness.
We're not going to solve this problem with the mental set that presently prevails in the US and the British and other administrations around the world.
They just don't have the right mental tools To deal with the crisis that we're facing.
Well, you're right.
Let's switch.
We're not really switching gears, but let's move on to your book, Supernatural, and begin by perhaps just defining what you mean by supernatural.
Yeah.
Well, there are categories of experiences that down the ages have been described as supernatural, whether it's out-of-body experiences, whether it's encounters with spirits or angels, fairies, elves, Demons, ghosts, the categories of experience, experiences that people have, that people have consistently reported for thousands and thousands of years, documented in all kinds of ways, which our science today just defines as complete nonsense.
Our science doesn't believe any of those experiences.
And what I'm suggesting is that actually we need to take all of those experiences that people have reported and continue to report extremely seriously.
That the supernatural, to use that word, is around us all the time, interpenetrating with our world.
But for most of us, most of the time, we just can't access it.
And that's to do with our state of consciousness.
Our consciousness is tuned in to everyday physical reality.
And actually, it needs to be tuned in to everyday physical reality.
We have to deal with the laws of physics, we have to make sure That we feed and clothe ourselves, we cannot walk across the street if there's a bus coming.
We do need to be tuned into the everyday world, but the suggestion is that within our brains, our mysterious minds, we have the capacity to retune the receiver wavelength of the brain and to pick up other realities which are there, but which are normally not accessible to our senses or to our scientific instruments.
So what I'm suggesting is that supernatural experiences are another modality of perception.
Just as we have eyes and ears and we feel things and taste things, that there's another modality of perception that allows us to tune in, if you like, to other dimensions.
And this can happen spontaneously to people.
Some people's brain chemistry is such that they can just spontaneously, in an instant, at the drop of a hat, tune into the supernatural realm.
Others of us may be affected by the atmosphere or environment in a particular place, and this is what I think has a lot to do with haunted houses, that that will have an effect on our consciousness that will allow us to access these other realms and beings.
And last but not least, that shamanic cultures, shamans from tribal and hunter-gatherer cultures around the world for thousands of years, and this is where the Amazon is really important, because the Amazon is still a home to ancient shamanism.
The shamans have developed a variety of techniques amongst which are the uses of visionary plants that we call hallucinogens in the West.
A variety of techniques which will retune the receiver wavelength of the brain and allow us to make contact with what has traditionally been called the spirit world, spirit realm, and allow us to make contact repeatedly and in a testable and reliable way with those other realms, and shamans are the masters of these technologies.
It isn't only hallucinogenic plants, it's also rhythmic dancing, certain kinds of music, fasting for 40 days will put you into a visionary state.
Our scientists, who are rooted and grounded in the materialist paradigm, which says that there is nothing more to the world than material reality, our scientists think that these visions These so-called hallucinations are just illusions of the
brain, cooked up in the brain.
They haven't considered the possibility that the brain may be a far more sophisticated
instrument than we imagine and that it may be able to access other dimensions.
Well maybe, but isn't it possible, Graham, that we're going to talk about DMT and I've
had some of the best people in the world talking about DMT.
Wonderful guest, Terrence McKenna.
I must mention him.
I was listening to the recording of your show with the wonderful, the late, great Terrence McKenna, not just a few days ago, and what a wonderful man he was, and how much he opened our eyes to these mysteries.
Okay, good.
I'm glad you heard that program.
Is DMT, for a non-initiated person in any other way, is it fair to call it a shortcut to some of the experiences we were just talking about?
Yes, it is fair to call it a shortcut, as long as we don't then say that shortcuts are bad things.
As long as we don't apply a value judgment to a shortcut.
Well, we are doing that, but they're illegal.
They're not legal.
Well, yes, I know.
This is another aspect of the madness of our society, which is, and this is actually, in my view, one of the most insidious and dangerous aspects of our society, is that our society over the last 40 years has begun to legislate punitively against certain states of mind.
and this is a very extraordinary thing and it's the road to the george or
Yes.
wellian world of nineteen eighty four with a state control everything we do
and think that is happening now
our states will send people to prison for experimenting with and exploring their own
consciousness and this is an astonishing invasion of human rights
which under the disguise of the so-called war on drugs has been allowed to pass through almost without opposition
so that billions of dollars of taxpayers money
are presently invested in enormous bureaucracies armed bureaucracies with incredible resources
which may which may take away our homes take away our freedom
uh... destroy our lives simply because we have chosen to experience something
doing no harm to others in the privacy of our own home simply because we've
chosen to experience something That this state, this government, this present system does not like.
And I think I know why, Graham.
Well, yes, because those experiences would change the way we look at the world.
That's right.
Change it forever and detach our allegiance from the state.
You see, this country, my country, the United States, for example, is capitalistic.
And I'm a capitalist.
I don't have a problem with capitalism.
Not at all.
I believe that our government, this government that is to say, I'm sorry, you have your own.
And our own is largely a poodle of yours.
That's right, that's right.
So what I think is that the government really does know what some of these drugs like DMT do, and what they do is they hurt Productivity, because people who have visions about things that are beyond materialism tend to go down those roads, and our government doesn't want them to go down those roads!
They want productivity!
I'd just take issue with a small point of that.
I don't think they do hurt productivity, actually.
I think productivity can go along very well with these states of conscience, but what they hurt completely is the ability of the state to control our thinking.
That's what they challenge, and our states now have become so overwhelmingly powerful and so arrogant and so blind to what they're doing that they feel it is their right, even their responsibility, to actually control the thoughts and experiences of every citizen.
They're so power-mad.
They're on such a control trip that they need to do that more than anything else.
Which detaches us from that state of control, which causes us to question it, which causes us to refuse it.
That is very dangerous to governments, and I think that is the reason why we have had 40 years of misleading propaganda about plants.
I'm not speaking about addictive drugs here.
I'm speaking about the so-called hallucinogens, the visionary plants, whether it's psilocybin, whether it's dimethyltryptamine, LSD, which are not addictive.
But which do for a short period change our state of consciousness and when we come out of that that experience we find ourselves questioning everything around us.
And this is what our government has sought to legislate against.
Now, to my mind... Listen, Graham, just let me stop you for one second.
I want to slam in a little evidence for what you're saying.
Control.
They want control.
My God!
They're now saying to NASA, look, if you've got something important to say about the climate, you're not going to say it until we've reviewed and edited what you want to say.
It's horrendous, Scott.
It's really horrendous.
I find myself sometimes, I just can't believe the way that the world is going.
and that you know that our governments want to just control absolutely everything
so that we actually are reduced to robots, just sort of meat and bone robots
who produce things unquestioningly, passively, without arguing, without protesting at all.
That is the wet dream of the control freaks in government around the world.
Without a mass change in consciousness, I wonder how long we really have got.
I don't think we have long at all. I think we're right on the brink.
I think the ancient Maya, when they brought up the date of 2012 in our calendar,
I think they were on to something. They saw something ahead.
And maybe they saw it through the use of shamanistic techniques and altered states of consciousness
because the Maya and the Maya, And the ancient Egyptians used altered states of consciousness to contact the spirit world.
I think the timetable is there, the writing is on the wall, and the only hope for the world lies in a mass change of consciousness that we the citizens will initiate ourselves because we will not get any help from our governments.
Our governments will fight tooth and nail to prevent this from happening.
And the reason they're fighting tooth and nail to prevent it from happening is because they're terrified, terrified of losing control.
They're terrified of the truth emerging, that we citizens can run our own lives, that we are adults, that we can take responsibility for ourselves.
We don't need to be told what to do and what to think by our governments.
And this is the mass illusion which government has presented us with over the last 40 years.
And you believe that these governments, our governments, will continue this practice right up until the world becomes no longer viable for man?
Yes, I do.
Because for those individuals in power, and at the end of the day we are dealing with individuals here and relatively small numbers of them, for them control is everything.
Control is everything.
They are controlling, dominating mentalities, and that's more important to them than anything else.
Hold it right there.
My God, we're getting right to the very core of it.
Graham Hancock from Great Britain is my guest.
And I guess we're talking about not the beginning of the end, but, well, rather toward the end.
I'm Art Bell.
Here I am.
Shows like this really piss off governments.
You know, I'm just too old and I care too much about this not to do it.
And that apparently is also the case for Graham.
Graham Hancock is my guest.
And like the late, great Terence McKenna, Graham is laying it right on the line.
If you'll stay right where you are, we'll be back with more.
Graham, in recent years, I've thoroughly glommed on to the whole consciousness thing.
I've been really boring in on it.
There would be other shows you could listen to that would demonstrate that to you graphically.
I've really been on to consciousness now.
I agree with you on DMT.
It's a shortcut, but in mass, it's not going to occur.
We're not going to change a lot of minds with DMT.
People are just going to realize it can be done.
Some will do it, but most won't.
So if we're going to get a big change, anything that's going to save our butts, it's going to have to come almost like a switch being thrown for human brains all around the world.
Is there any way that you see that that might happen?
Yes.
Well, first of all, let me just address the DMT issue a little further, because one thing that we now know, which we didn't know 20 years ago, is that the human brain, and specifically the pineal gland inside the human brain, the so-called third eye, the pineal gland produces DMT, dimethyltryptamine.
So all of us, every single person listening to this program, whether they like it or not, right now has an illegal drug.
Inside their bodies, which is produced by their own brains, and we don't know why it's there.
It's produced in such minute quantities that it doesn't normally give most of us visionary effects, but it can spontaneously overproduce at some time.
Now, there's a scientist at the University of New Mexico, Dr. Rick Strassman, Who was the first American scientist to be given permission for more than 20 years to work with hallucinogens and human volunteers in the 1990s.
And Rick Strassman did an eight-year research program with a large number of volunteers giving them small doses of, you only need a very small dose, of DMT.
And these individuals had extraordinary experiences of encounters with beings and entities, which in many cases, around about 80% of the cases, were identical in every respect to the experiences of encounters with beings and entities that UFO abductees report.
Except we know that in the case of the volunteers in Rick Strassman's project, they were not being abducted physically by UFOs because they were lying right there on a hospital bed under the watchful eyes of Dr. Strassman himself.
But their consciousness was going to some place where it was having these encounters and experiences.
And after a number of years of consistently, again and again and again and again, Getting the same reports from different volunteers of encounters with the same entities, the same kind of entities in the same kind of situation.
Rick had to begin to ask himself, why is this happening?
If these things are just hallucinations?
Which are supposedly just concocted and cooked up by the brain, then you'd expect everybody to have different experiences related to their own life experiences, their own past history.
And what's stunning is that they all have the same experiences, and these experiences are extremely similar to the experiences of encounters with beings and entities reported by UFO abductees.
So what Rick was suggesting, to cut a long story short, is that people who have the UFO abduction experience in many cases are people who spontaneously overproduce DMT.
He puts them into a visionary state and allows them access to these other realms.
And it's very important to be clear that what he is saying is not that the DMT causes or creates these experiences, simply that it allows these experiences in.
But his research could be used for either argument, and I bet it is being used for either argument.
Yes, well, I think his research is absolutely intriguing, particularly when you cross-correlate it, as I have done in Supernatural, with experiences from all over the world, particularly what shamans are doing and experiencing.
And I myself went down to the Amazon to drink the hallucinogenic brew, Ayahuasca, which contains DMT, by the way, that has been drunk by shamans in the Amazon for tens of thousands of years.
And the reason that shamans drink this brew is that they believe that it opens a secret doorway inside their minds that allows them to project their consciousness through into other realms where they meet intelligent entities that communicate with them and teach them.
So what I'm saying is that these experiences, these transforming experiences are in fact available to all of us.
We have our own body chemistry has already provided us with the vehicle To do that and it may be that that that something to do with the DMT that exists in all our bodies May indeed sweep over the world and and and and allow a change of consciousness to take place and again It's very important to emphasize that these experiences called hallucinations called visions we actually don't know what they are one of the aspects of mind control in our society today is
Has been that the governments have allowed so little work and so little serious research into the possibility that altered states of consciousness may be the route to proving the supernatural and the paranormal.
Far more effective than chintzy little instruments like ghost meters.
What we need to do is to retune the receiver wavelength of our brains.
Our brains are the most fantastic instrument we shall ever have and right now And this serves the interest of our governments.
We're only using a tiny fraction of the potential of our brains.
That's fascinating.
Would you describe a simultaneous release of DMT in brains around the world as an evolutionary leap forward?
I would indeed, and I believe that this evolutionary leap forward occurred before.
That's why I call my book Meetings with the Ancient Teachers of Mankind.
There's a fascinating moment in the archaeological record just prior to about 40,000 years ago when it's as though light is switched on in the human brain all over the world
pretty much at once.
And I suggest that it was a change in consciousness that took
place then and that it may well have been mediated by brain chemistry in the
form of DMT, that it may be an agent.
You see, we have to ask ourselves, why do our bodies make this substance?
Science is not able to find any function for it.
It's very interesting that this substance is produced by the pineal gland.
If you go back into the evolutionary history of the pineal gland and if you look at it in evolutionary older animals such as lizards, For example, you'll find that their pineal gland is actually an eye.
It has a lens.
Now, in more evolved creatures like ourselves, the pineal gland has moved deeper into the brain.
It ceased to be light-sensitive.
It no longer has a lens.
But maybe it is still an organ of perception.
And maybe the medium through which it perceives reality is dimethyltryptamine, is DMT.
That's a kind of lens that allows us to access other realities.
And it's astonishing how once you begin to look at things this way you can
realize that virtually every supernatural experience that has ever been charted,
including the alien abduction experience, which I rank along that
that line, has to do with a change of consciousness. Now this doesn't mean that
there isn't a physical reality to these experiences. There certainly
are physical measurable consequences of the alien abduction experience, and
the sightings of UFOs, for example. I just think that we don't need to jump to the conclusion
that these are spaceships from other planets in this physical universe. I think we may be dealing with
entities that have developed a technology that can cross the barriers between
dimensions.
I think that would be much more likely to explain the physicality of these experiences, that they found a way to flood into our universe, that there are beings, entities out there who are profoundly interested in the human race.
Some of them positive, some of them negative, but it may be that there's some help waiting for us out there at the level of consciousness.
Graham, are you able to describe the experience you had in Brazil?
Yes, I've had multiple experiences now.
I've drunk the shamanic brew ayahuasca 18 times, 11 times in the Amazon and 7 times in other locations around the world, including in Japan and here in Britain.
And what's extraordinary about it is that it plunges you into a seamlessly A convincing parallel world where you meet intelligent beings and amongst the beings that I met in the Amazon were entities of the type that would be described as greys in the modern UFO literature and this was really surprising to me because prior to that I had never been interested in UFOs or alien abductions and I suddenly found myself confronted by a being of this sort in my visual field.
I was sitting in a jungle hut But my consciousness was interacting with this other entity.
Very often what you see in ayahuasca visions are serpents.
Serpents appear again and again.
This is astonishingly well documented.
The professor of psychology at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem, Dr. Benny Shannon, is one of the world's leading experts on ayahuasca.
He has actually drunk ayahuasca more than 300 times himself.
And he has compared the experiences of hundreds and hundreds of people from all different parts of the world, from the Amazon, from the industrialized countries, and what he's found is that all of these people meet the same entities and receive teachings from them which very frequently, they say, transform their lives.
I can honestly say that my encounters with these entities in the Ayahuasca experience has definitely transformed my life.
It's caused me to think again.
About all sorts of knee-jerk issues that I never examined before in my life, about my own behavior, about the way I relate to others.
I've had to reconsider everything about my life and I've had to reconsider the nature of reality.
That we cannot simply say that reality is this physical world that can be weighed and measured and counted.
Maybe this physical world is just a tiny slice of an overall much larger reality, which is our birthright.
But which our intense focus on day-to-day life is just preventing us from accessing.
We can all get there but we are so tuned in to what Rick Strassman calls channel normal that it's very difficult for us to get there and that we may need help but the potential is there within us.
The potential is there to access other realms and beings.
It's played a huge part in the story of human evolution and I believe it can play a huge part in our evolution again.
And right now With the policies that our governments have, which restrict our consciousness in so many ways, legislate against what we as sovereign adults may experience, flood our brains with the pap of mindless reality television from morning to night, flooding our consciousness with that.
All of this is preventing us from accessing these other realms, but the potential is there and it can turn around very fast when it happens.
Well, what proves all this would be the similarities, Graham, and how deep really are the similarities of the experiences that people have had?
In Strassman's work, in any other reporting on the use of this stuff, how really similar are they?
Astonishingly similar and astonishingly deep, and we don't only need the relatively small amount of work that scientists have been allowed to do in order to understand this, because one of the things that I do in Supernatural is go back to the painted caves, the very beginning of human spirituality, the very first time that we can recognize ourselves as human in the archaeological record is the time that our ancestors start making paintings on the walls of caves more than 35,000 years ago.
And what those paintings show are beings and entities of the type that shamans in the Amazon or in Central Africa experience today in altered states of consciousness.
Very recognizable entities and beings.
Very often, these supernatural beings are shown as part animal and part human in form.
There's actually a technical term for that.
They're called therianthropes.
And I may use it again in this discussion, and that's from the Greek katharion, which means wild beast, and anthropos, which means man, a combination of wild beast and man.
In other words, not the kind of being who you meet in everyday life.
People in altered states of consciousness in the lab experiments at the University of New Mexico and deep in the Amazon jungle meet beings like this all the time.
I've met them myself again and again, repeatedly, while drinking ayahuasca.
And interestingly enough, people who have the UFO abduction experience very frequently meet hybrid beings of the same type, who are part animal, part human.
Often they appear first in that form before shape-shifting into the more familiar form of greys.
Sometimes they're part insect, part human.
But there's a universal human experience going on here, and our science is making a terrible mistake by just dismissing it all as illusions and hallucinations.
There's a reality to this, and the reality is confirmed By the absolute universality of this experience, not only between cultures today, but going back deep into prehistory, more than 30,000 years ago, we can see the earliest documentation of encounters of this sort.
So we have a real problem to explain here.
Normally, when everybody agrees that they're seeing a certain thing, we tend to say that that thing is real.
But when it happens in the framework of the mind, and our scientists can't measure a physical object outside, they say, oh, it's just an illusion.
And I wonder on what basis they do that.
They have no evidence for that statement at all.
I absolutely agree with you.
You would think that people's experience, Graham, would be, oh, I don't know, if somebody is a very strong religious person, you would think that their experience would be with Christ, for example, or with Buddha, or whatever.
But that's not what's happening.
And if it's not what's happening, how can the scientists dismiss it?
Well, they dismiss it purely on the basis of prejudice and bias.
And science forgets that there are unexamined metaphysical assumptions at the basis of Western science.
And one of those unexamined metaphysical assumptions, not proven at all, is that there is nothing more to reality than the material world, that there is no spiritual dimension.
Science just asserts that, as though it's actually proved it.
But science has never proved it at all.
And in a way, science is engaged in a bogus war with organized religion, because organized religion is only one dimension of the spiritual experience.
The spiritual experience for tens of thousands of years has not been channeled through organized religion.
It's been the direct experiences of shamans working with altered states of consciousness.
And again, we have so much propaganda, so much, pardon the word, so much bullshit, generated to persuade us that we must not experience altered states of consciousness, that people are just afraid, just afraid to have this experience that is their birthright.
All right, well all of this might be looked at by some as encouraging drug use.
Yes.
There's a grave danger of that, and I realize that I'm playing into the hands of the propagandists here by presenting a positive picture and a positive image of dimethyltryptamine.
There's a couple of things I need to say about this.
First of all, ayahuasca, the sacred brew of the Amazon, which has been drunk in the Amazon for at least 10,000
years, ayahuasca is completely legal throughout the Amazon region.
And it is legal and it is protected under laws of religious freedom.
More interestingly, ayahuasca is used in clinics and more and more of them are opening all over the world
to get people off hard drugs.
People who are addicted to heroin and cocaine, after five sessions with ayahuasca,
more than half of them abandon the addiction forever and never return to it.
And they don't have withdrawal symptoms.
They go through an astonishing process of personal transformation where they realize they don't need that monkey on their back anymore.
But that's not true in Great Britain or in America, is it?
What, that such clinics exist?
Yes.
Well, there are kind of guerrilla clinics.
One thing I've noticed is that ayahuasca is spreading around the world.
I was able to have an ayahuasca session here in Britain just two weeks ago.
It's spreading at grassroots level.
This is a true grassroots movement.
It's people reaching out to discover their spiritual heritage.
And the shamans in the Amazon feel that it's a very important part of their mission to help us in the industrialized countries reconnect with the world of spirit.
And they believe that Ayahuasca is Maybe one of the most potent and effective ways to do this, and more and more shamans from the Amazon are finding ways to travel to the West with the help of friends in the West and to bring this sacred brew to us so that we may sit down in a ceremonial surrounding with the correct preparation of our minds and experience this extraordinary entry into another realm.
And cause us to question the whole nature and basis of what we think of as reality.
Well, Graham, the Chinese have a saying that the nail that sticks up gets hammered down, and you're a nail that's sticking up right now.
Are you at all concerned, speaking out this boldly as you are?
I am concerned, but at the same time I feel that there are truths here that need to be communicated, or at least there's a point of view here that needs to be communicated.
We imagine that we live in a society that has freedom of speech.
And it ought to be possible to talk freely about this, but actually we don't have freedom of speech, and grave dangers do present those who talk freely about subjects that our governments don't like.
Right on the money.
All right, we're at a break point.
Hold on, Graham.
Graham Hancock is my guest, and speaking freely he certainly is.
From the high desert, it's good to say that, in the great American Southwest, I'm Art Bell.
Hope you're having a great night tonight.
A new religion that'll bring you to your knees.
In a lot of ways, that's what Graham is talking about right now.
That's exactly what he's talking about.
A new religion that'll bring you to your knees.
Not in the strictest sense of our organized religions today at all, but that is what we're talking about.
more in a moment Graham you know we've been looking for other life out there
hard as we can and hard as we've looked with SETI no signals yet
We've not detected life, or at least complex life, anywhere else at all, ever, despite our best efforts.
Now, could it be that, there's two possibilities, one is life is rare. Life is only here. The other is life is not so
rare. I rather take that road. I think that life probably springs up on likely planets here
and there. But there's the possibility that life is cyclic and that it destroys itself on a
regular basis. And we may be approaching that juncture when the switch gets thrown and we virtually
disappear by our own hand.
And I hate to be such a damn pessimist, but I think short of this Great Awakening that you have been describing, we're at about the end of a cycle.
Yes, I'm afraid we are at the end of the cycle, and anybody with a mind can see that, that we are facing doom, a self-inflicted doom, and that we are being maliciously and deliberately misled by the powers that be in our societies to ignore that.
On the question of life, I agree with you, Art.
I think the universe is probably filled with life.
I think that's what it's for.
But I think that it's also much more complex than we imagine, and that the issues that quantum physicists are now getting to grips with The issues of multiple interpenetrating dimensions, which quantum physicists have already demonstrated that such things exist in indirect ways.
They just don't know how to get into them.
But we have evidence of tens of thousands of years of human experience, of contact with intelligent entities that I would say appear to come to us from other dimensions, rather than from this physical universe.
So although I do think this universe is filled with life, and I do think we will eventually
prove that, I mean, beings existing on the same physical plane as we do, I think there's
far more powerful evidence for the existence of beings and intelligences on different planes,
vibrating at a different frequency, if you like, than we are, perhaps interpenetrating
in the same space that we occupy, but at the level of another dimension.
I think there's just huge evidence for that.
And as I say, I think it's been documented, going right back to the painted caves in Upper
Paleolithic Europe more than 35,000 years ago, that we have these contact experiences
with beings and entities, and that it's a folly of our science to be so rooted and grounded
in the material realm that it's just unwilling to consider all of these possibilities.
Well, Graham, it could be both.
It definitely could be both, yes.
I agree.
It could be both.
These could be life forms on other planets.
The kind of contact that we're talking about right now Would be an instantaneous contact.
In other words, faster than light.
And scientists are moving in this direction right now.
It's just that they're trying to do it with hardware.
Yes.
Trying to do it with hardware.
The wrong equipment.
This is why scientists, this is why science finds it so hard to get to grips with this.
Because they want to do it with hardware and really it's a software issue.
We already have the hardware, it's called our brains.
And we need to slightly reprogram or retune our brains to gain access to these other realities, which are real.
And which can be demonstrated to be real if we're willing to do the research.
And we have the tools at our disposal.
Shamans for tens of thousands of years have provided us with those tools.
The most despised people on our planet who our scientists look down on as primitive superstitious savages.
They are the ones who really have the secret of interdimensional contact and have used it for good purposes, for positive purposes, for healing.
Shamanism is primarily about healing.
Mental and physical healing have used it for those purposes rather than for acquisitive, destructive greed, which is the ethic of our society today.
So I think we need to sit down at the feet of the great shamans of the Amazon and of other regions such as Central Africa.
We need to sit at their feet and listen to what they have to say because their direct experiences of contact with other realms and other realities have profound implications for what it is to be human.
And actually Art, I would say that it's experiences of that sort which lie at the roots of all the mainstream religions that we have in the world today.
It's just unfortunate that after the original shamanistic experiences of contact with supernatural beings that created, that founded these religions, that after that the money men and the bureaucrats stepped in.
And increasingly, our organized religions today are instruments of control rather than instruments of spiritual liberation.
But if you go back to their roots and really look deep into how they began, you are going to find shamans having experiences in altered states of consciousness, contact with supernatural beings.
Think of Moses in front of the burning bush.
You know, think of Ezekiel.
and his experiences of a celestial journey.
Think of Joseph Smith and the angel Moroni who reveals to him texts written on golden plates.
Think of the prophet Muhammad sitting in his cave, cut off from society, isolated, shivering,
a classic state to enter an altered state of consciousness who encounters a supernatural being
that he construes as the angel Gabriel who gives him the full text of the Quran.
Think of Saint Paul on the Damascus Road, a blinding light, completely changes his life, a vision, an experience that totally turns him around.
These are true shamanistic experiences, and they were experiences of direct spiritual contact.
Then, unfortunately, as human beings get into the picture and start wanting to control and bureaucratize everything, the religion, instead of, as I said, being an instrument of liberation, becomes an instrument of control.
And pretty soon, these altered states of consciousness, in which direct spiritual experiences are possible, become outlawed and frowned upon.
By the religions themselves.
So what's happening today as shamanism is reintroducing itself into the urban environment, whether our governments like it or not, is that people are once again discovering their birthright, their right to have a direct spiritual experience which can change their lives forever.
Well, answer this for me, Graham.
I agree with everything you've said.
It explains so much that otherwise is inexplicable.
Here's the deal.
If you're a scientist today, Graham, and you want to look into the line that you've been describing so well this night, You've got a family, you've got a career, you probably are associated with a university, and if you begin going down the roads that you've described this evening, you're probably going to lose your job, you're probably going to get your tenure yanked, even though you thought it was safe.
In other words, career over.
Absolutely.
Look at the case of, we talked of the late great Terence McKenna, let's talk for a moment about the late great John Mack of Harvard University, professor of psychiatry at Harvard University, who began to realize that the astonishing universality of the UFO abduction experience must have a reality behind it.
As a rational and reasonable man, working directly with the evidence as a scientist,
John came to know that there must be a reality behind this.
He didn't insist on what kind of reality it was, and I do know in the last years of his
life John was very much moving in the direction of considering interdimensional contact as
the basis for this reality.
He was a brilliant, brilliant man, sadly killed in a car accident in London, unfortunately, in 2004.
But what happened to John was just an absolutely clear example of what you've just been saying, that his colleagues at Harvard University turned on him like a pack of mad dogs.
Because he was saying this extraordinary experience may be real.
Harvard University made huge efforts, although he was tenured, to get him fired from his job, to have his right to work taken away from him.
Now he fought it back with a good lawyer, he did manage to keep his job, but for the rest of his days he was isolated, shunned, not spoken to by the rest of his colleagues.
So that, unfortunately, I'm afraid you're right, is what our society does to people who think outside the box.
It wants to shut them down and the grave danger here And it is a very grave danger, is that by refusing to consider these extraordinary possibilities, we may be denying ourselves the next step forward in our own evolution.
We may be locking ourselves into a disaster that we don't need to face.
Maybe there's no way out.
Because... I have great faith in the power of human consciousness.
I see everywhere around me.
It's a small thing at the moment, but it's growing.
I'm coming back to the sacred vine of the Amazon.
By the way, ayahuasca means the vine of souls, or the vine of the dead, because one of the things that it consistently and repeatedly does, and it has done so in my case, is that it allows you to contact and speak with deceased ancestors, and sometimes to settle issues and problems that you may have, and to understand things about them that you didn't understand.
Ayahuasca, this vine from the Amazon, It is spreading out across the world.
It has spread into the United States.
Just recently, the Supreme Court of the United States was forced to agree that members of the União de Vegetal, which is one of the Ayahuasca churches from Brazil, that there are more than 100 members of the União de Vegetal in New Mexico now.
And they took their case to the Supreme Court and they said that we have the right to drink ayahuasca because it is our religious sacrament.
It is the vehicle by which we contact the spirit world and the Supreme Court was forced to agree with them and they have been given the right.
to drink ayahuasca which otherwise is totally illegal in the United States and contains a
schedule one banned substance DMT. Nevertheless, because the Supreme Court could not deny that
these people were practicing a religion, it had to allow them to continue with it. And this to me
is the way that the armor of the system is going to be broken down. That we have a system that
cannot deny, it just cannot.
It is an outrage to deny individuals the right of religious freedom.
And it happens that ayahuasca has been used in a religious context for at least 10,000 years.
So our governments cannot turn around and say that it's not religion and it's just some drug.
Actually, nobody who takes ayahuasca It does so for fun.
It's a very difficult experience.
It's very hard work.
You have to brace yourself for it, and it is a profoundly spiritual experience.
So I do see a possibility here, coming out of the Amazon and coming out of other sacred plants.
Of course, ayahuasca is not the only one.
I believe in the case of our Stone Age ancestors, when they were turned around, when their lives were transformed 35 or 40,000 years ago, that it was probably the use of little mushrooms called psilocybin.
which may first have been gathered as food items and then unleashed an
extraordinary wave of consciousness in their minds that spread around the world.
So there are many plants that have this potential. They've been used in a sacred
context for thousands of years and they are coming back.
They are staging a revival and this revival is happening fundamentally at the
grassroots level that adults, responsible adults, are making decisions about
their own consciousness whether their government's like it or not.
Let's take that as an example.
Graham, let's take that as an example, and let me press it a little bit.
Alright, the Supreme Court agreed that a small, relatively small group in New Mexico may do this as a religious sacrament.
Now, if that began to spread, and I mean really spread, I bet I know exactly what would happen.
The Supreme Court may have done that in this case, hoping that it would remain small and isolated.
But if it began to spread, I'll bet you that Congress would, if they had to, to maintain control, change something in the Constitution and overrule the U.S.
Supreme Court.
Well, sadly, as we've seen, the U.S.
Constitution, which is one of the greatest inventions ever of humanity, is being steadily eroded and eaten away by the United
States government right now, often by stealth and often by threatening us with terrible fears
and terrors. Our governments tell us, we must take away this freedom from you so that we
can protect you better. But again, what I sense here is a growing swell of outrage, of
absolute outrage. I felt this very strongly when I was traveling in the United States in
October, that more and more people are just utterly astounded and outraged by the
astonishing behavior of their governments, the unacceptable behavior, the extension of control, the
erosion of fundamental rights.
And while many people are still blink-blinked to this, I do see a wave of consciousness already moving through society which is rooted and grounded in a feeling of complete outrage that our governments would dare to do this and ultimately Ultimately, a government cannot control an awakened citizenry.
And that is what is happening now.
I hope.
I hope that's what's happening.
I feel the absolute deep truth of what you've been saying.
As I said, it explains so much that otherwise cannot be explained.
We would normally, and I will in the next hour, try and take some calls for you.
But there's another subject that I see that you've got down here and I really want to talk about that.
I've been fascinated By what scientists have called junk DNA.
Oh yes.
And I know that you've got something to say about that.
You and I, boy, we've been traveling some parallel roads here in our thinking.
Young DNA is really the most extraordinary thing.
I do go into this at some length in Supernatural.
You see, the problem I'm dealing with in Supernatural is why is it that people all over the world and all over the For the last 35 or 40,000 years, deep into prehistory, keep on having the same distinct experiences which are supposedly not real.
Could those experiences be real?
Could it be that there is a secret doorway, as I put it earlier, inside our own minds through which we may project our consciousness through into other dimensions?
That would explain these universal, supposedly non-real experiences, because all of us are really going to another place that is real, but that normally cannot be accessed.
But another explanation for this is that there may be some kind of teaching, interactive teaching program written into our DNA, the DNA that we all share, written into our DNA, which can only be accessed in altered states of consciousness.
This would also explain The universality of these experiences.
And then the question becomes, who wrote that program into our DNA?
How did it get there?
And this is the great mystery.
Is it advanced beings from another planet in this physical universe?
Or is it possible that our world, that the physical world, is in some way a creation of what we call the spirit world?
Which again goes back to what all religions say, actually.
All religions say that our world is the creation of a spirit being.
Maybe that is so, in which case DNA would be a fundamental part of it.
And junk DNA is extremely mysterious.
We think we know everything about DNA.
People have heard of the Human Genome Project.
And we think that means our scientists now know everything about DNA.
Nothing could be further from the truth.
What we know about is around 3% of DNA.
That's the DNA that's gathered together in our genes and that codes for the assembly of proteins that leads to the construction of our bodies and our organs.
But the other 97% of DNA, our scientists in their quote unquote wisdom, call that junk DNA, as though billions of years of evolution Would have preserved 97% of a substance which is useless just to keep 3% that is useful.
Doesn't make sense.
Well, in translation, we don't understand it, so it's junk.
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
And here's the very mysterious thing, which is it has become clear that junk DNA, as distinct from the DNA that is gathered together in our genes, Junk DNA has a mathematical structure which is identical to the deep, hidden structure that unites all human languages.
And I do have a chapter on this in Supernatural because it is a most astonishing fact.
By the way, how long has Supernatural been out?
It was published in the U.S.
in October this year.
It just came out in Hardback in the U.S.
Ah, okay, so only in hardback right now, available Amazon, that sort of thing?
Yes, available from Amazon, and I have lots of course information on my website, which is www.grahamhancock.com, about the book for people who look for more information on that.
But yeah, it's been out since October, and I'm trying to get to grips with what I think is just It's just the absolutely fundamental mystery of human consciousness.
I was so glad to hear you say that that's a deep concern of yours and has been for a long time now.
It is the greatest mystery of all.
What is this thing we call consciousness?
Science hasn't even scratched the surface.
Oh, I agree.
I think ultimately consciousness will be proven to be a greater power than atomic energy.
Much, much greater.
I did some experiments, Graham, that were just... they absolutely astounded me.
Stay right where you are.
We're at a break point.
We will begin to take calls in the next hour for an amazing, an amazing Graham Hancock.
I'm Art Bell.
I know that many in the audience, from watching my computer, Recognize the profound truths they're hearing this morning.
Simply profound.
Some will nod, some will get angry, and may react with anger.
We are going to take some calls, but we've got a little more ground to cover with Graham before we do that.
Graham Hancock is my guest.
If you tuned in late, Then here's my advice.
Get to a computer and listen to the entire show.
Listen to every word.
And then after you've done that, make a copy and give one to your friends.
I suppose I'm not supposed to say that, but do that.
Spread it around as far as you can get it.
We'll get Graham Hancock back in a moment.
Alright Graham, we've got a lot of territory to cover here yet.
Steve in Phoenix, Arizona is an example of the anger I talked about.
Now, most of the messages I'm getting are incredibly encouraging.
So many people are understanding exactly what you're saying.
But Steve says, Graham, one cannot make true spiritual progress with DMT or any other drug Shamans go to the astral world.
LSD and other drugs take one to the lower astral plane.
The true ancient teachers of mankind have always been the Avatar, and on and on, and the perfect masters.
Well, I know that you have something to say, for example, about Christ, Christ himself.
Well, Christ is a classic shamanic figure, and I say this, of course, with hesitation, because I know that this may be very annoying to many people who are deeply committed to the version of Christianity that is given to us by Orthodox religion.
But if you consider the figure of Christ, he is part human and part divine.
Many shamans feel that they have a divine ancestor in the spirit world.
that Christ is a savior of souls, that he collects lost souls and brings them back to
the right line.
This is all classic shamanistic work.
The suffering of Christ, every shaman goes through an experience of intense suffering
after which they are reborn and renewed in their message.
There are just so many similarities.
If I can address another point that the gentleman you just mentioned raised, that it's not possible
to have a real spiritual experience through chemicals.
Let me just remind that individual that all our experiences are mediated through our brains, and our brains are electrochemical jellies, so every experience we have Well, he didn't exactly say that.
He said, other drugs take one to the lower astral plane.
So he's sort of admitting that... That they take us somewhere.
That's right.
Yes.
I'm wondering, obviously I can't talk to that individual, so I don't know on what personal research his experiences are based.
Many people make remarks about the ancient shamanic plants, the sacred plants.
Without having ever experienced those plants themselves.
And that is the most unfortunate thing.
I think it is very important to have an experience before one dismisses it utterly.
And very important to remember that all of the great religions in the world are rooted and grounded in experiences in altered states of consciousness, where the state of the chemical and electrical state of the brain has been altered.
in order to pick up other realities. And the very latest scientific work on the great mystery
of cave art, why this extraordinary art began to appear all over the world at once around
35,000 years ago, scientists absolutely agreed that this was an art of visions, an art of
altered states of consciousness. And these visions that led to the cave art also led
to the greatest leap forward in the evolution of human behavior in the last six million
years.
So we need not be swamped by the propaganda.
We have to consider that these experiences in altered states of consciousness may be of fundamental importance to the human creature.
Is it your belief that our consciousness in some manner continues after physical death?
Absolutely.
I personally have no doubt about that whatsoever and the reason that I have no doubt about it is the experiences I have had with shamanistic plants.
Consciousness is free-floating.
I believe that consciousness uses the brain as a vehicle.
When scientists measure brain activity while somebody is having a spiritual experience, They foolishly say that the spiritual experience is the brain activity.
They reduce it to the brain activity.
I think another model is needed.
Of course you are going to measure brain activity whenever we have any experience, but that does not mean that the experience is not real.
The brain is our vehicle for experiencing.
It is not the generator of experience.
It is a vehicle for consciousness, not the generator of consciousness.
And if the brain is a vehicle, Then naturally, when the brain dies, as all physical things do, the consciousness that animates it continues to exist separate from the brain.
I have absolutely no doubt about this.
There's just so much evidence, never mind my own personal experiences, there's so much evidence of consciousness existing outside the brain.
The near-death experience, the out-of-body experience, which is thoroughly and comprehensively documented.
The evidence for reincarnation Astonishing amounts of evidence of memories of past lives tell us that our consciousness is not a fiction or a figment of our brains generated temporarily in this physical reality.
Our consciousness is an eternal entity and being which manifests in this form for a brief period of time and then will manifest in other forms.
What about all that Christ physically manifested according to the Bible, honoreth during his time?
Sorry, say again Art?
I say, what about all of the physical manifestations of Christ?
I would say that Christ, like all of us, was a spiritual being, but a very special spiritual being who manifested in a physical form for a certain period of time.
Of course there is the Gnostic tradition in Christianity which argues that the physical appearance of Christ was an apparition And that he was not a physical entity like the rest of us.
That particular take on Christianity has been rather edited out of the record with the grotesque suppression of the Gnostics from the third century onwards.
But they never regarded Christ as a fully physical being.
They regarded him as all spirit who appeared in a physical form but was not in fact physical.
But I have no problem with these crossovers between the physical and the spirit realm.
I think this is the This is the human condition, that we are beings who exist.
It is our birthright to exist in multiple dimensions, and it's really a kind of mistake of the society we live in now, which is forcing us to focus our attention entirely on the material dimension, and never consider the spiritual dimension at all, except in the sanitized, organized, and controlling way that mainstream modern religions now offer us.
All right.
I now would like to take a few calls, see what people have to say.
Those who have been listening, I hope, intently to all of this.
First time caller on the line, it's Marty in Nashville, Tennessee.
Hey Art, it's Marty.
How are you doing tonight?
I know you're doing great.
I hate to ask that.
It's a pleasure to speak to you.
Welcome back to the States, Art.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Sure.
My question for Graham.
I studied, took a few archaeology classes in college.
About 10 years ago before I got my degree in something else, but a professor of mine stated once that the pyramids were covered in marble, that they were actually smooth and they were looted along with all the gold and everything to build Cairo.
Is there any truth in the fact that there might have been marble?
Yeah, it wasn't marble.
But the pyramids were covered, and in fact you can see some remaining parts of the casing stones that covered the pyramids on the second pyramid.
There's very little left on the Great Pyramid except at the base, but on the second pyramid at the summit, down from the summit about 40 feet, you can see the original highly polished limestone casing stones.
Now, so they weren't marble, they were limestone.
Each of the blocks weighed about 16 tons, and it's another one of those miracles of ancient Egyptian construction that having built the core structure of the pyramids, they were able then to lay these finely polished casing stones of enormous weight on top of the pyramids.
Now, what happened in 1301 was that there was a gigantic earthquake.
I mean, you're talking something like a Nine on the Richter scale, just an enormous earthquake which hit Cairo.
And what it did was it shook loose the casing stones from the Great Pyramid.
And yes, in that sense your professor was correct.
Those casing stones were gathered, the fallen, the broken ones, and they were put into buildings that were being, mainly mosques and other Islamic buildings, that were being built in Cairo at that time.
So you can find bits of the Great Pyramid all over Cairo today.
as a result of that earthquake. But once indeed they were covered
with this finely polished limestone, the joints between the blocks were
almost imperceptible. They're so perfectly fixed together.
It's been likened to opticians' work on a scale of acres. And from ancient
reports we know that as they caught the sun, these finely polished limestone
surfaces of the pyramids glowed with a brilliant light. So it was almost like looking at the light of a star brought
down to Earth.
Right.
West of the Rockies, Chad in L.A., you're on with Graham.
Good morning Art, thank you.
I wanted to get Graham's take on the relationship between fasting and mind expansion.
Yeah, well fasting is one of many ancient shamanistic techniques for allowing us to defocus from the urgent and dominant calls of this physical world and to
focus our mind instead on other levels and dimensions of reality. And fasting will absolutely do that.
It's just very, very hard work.
But if people want to go that route, that route is available to them for exploring spiritual
experiences. I don't see any special merit in putting oneself through a painful and agonizing
40-day fast in order to have those experiences. We have a rather masochistic streak in our society
where we think that people have to suffer before an experience is valid. I don't think that is
the case. I do think that the shamanistic plants like ayahuasca from the Amazon that I've mentioned
do allow a quicker route into that experience. I don't think it makes the experience any less
valuable because really what matters...
Once you've had the spiritual experience is what you do with it, how you integrate it into your life, what changes you make in your life, and that's where the real hard work begins.
But I don't see why we have to expose ourselves to great pain and difficulty in order to have the experience when shamans have researched for thousands of years other ways of getting us there.
Let me ask this.
When I was young and relatively stupid, I was in radio and I was on the island of Okinawa.
I broke a world record.
I stayed up broadcasting continuously for 116 hours and 15 minutes and somewhere around
the 80 or 90 hour point, I began hallucinating.
And when I say hallucinating, I went into a world, Graham, that was every bit as real,
every bit as solid with beings, with things and people and walls and buildings and it
was hallucinating.
I was hallucinating!
Yes, and again, we use that word, and I feel the need every time I hear that word to warn people.
That actually, science doesn't have a clue what hallucinations are.
When scientists say that hallucinations are just illusions of the brain, they actually don't know that.
There's no evidence for that whatsoever.
That's just a prejudice.
And hallucinations may well be valid, real perceptions of other realities.
And that sounds like what's happening to you there.
Well, I promise you, it was as real as the reality I'm in right now.
Yeah.
No, this is the nature of visions, that they have this profound reality about them and what really becomes mysterious is that that reality that you experience can be compared with the reality in visions that other individuals on the other side of the world experience and it turns out to be the same reality and this really should cause us to think about what is real and what is not real.
So it seems that as creatures we have been provided with not one but hundreds of different routes into altered states of consciousness.
For those who don't like the idea of using sacred plants, there is rhythmic dancing, there is fasting that we've just discussed.
They're staying awake for enormous periods of time.
There's sensory deprivation.
Sensory deprivation tanks are just putting yourself inside a cave for long enough and you will start to have visions.
And as I say, we don't know what those visions are.
I believe that they are another modality of perception and some of us
have our brain chemistry in such a state of tuning that we're more likely to have
those experiences than others that we may have them spontaneously and this
will explain a lot of supernatural experiences that have been described
down the ages. The astonishing similarities for example between fairies
and elves and the beings that we call aliens today looks to me like it's the
same experience being seen through slightly different cultural spectacles
at different periods of time, an experience in altered states of
consciousness which we can reproduce in the lab.
And that's what Rick Strassman's work at the University of New Mexico is so important for, because it shows that these experiences actually can be had on demand and repeated.
You recall the movie, of course, Altered States.
That was a movie ahead of its time, yes?
Indeed it was.
Far ahead of its time.
And I still wonder if the time has come for these issues.
I wouldn't be speaking out about these issues now if I didn't feel that it was a matter of desperate urgency for humanity, that we need to be kicked out of our existing rigid mental state, which has convinced us Against all the evidence has convinced us that there is nothing more to our existence than the material world, and that somehow we've come to define ourselves as creatures who simply consume goods and services, and everything is expressed in economic terms.
We need to get out of that mental state and into a new one.
We need to rediscover our birthright.
We need to be born again, literally, in a new reality.
Okay.
Walk Hardline, Craig in L.A.
You're on with Graham.
Hi, Art.
Hi, Graham.
Hi.
I had a point to make and a question.
First, with government control, I have been listening to Coast to Coast for a number of years, and one thing, and I'm sure your audience members would agree, is that every night when I listen to Coast to Coast, the next day when I wake up, there's no news.
Nothing.
It's like so many things are stated in the show, and the next day, we never read about it.
We never hear anything about it.
The mainstream media won't cover it.
And this is over years.
Not ever have they covered it.
No, and they never will cover it because what they do is they snigger and laugh in a superior manner and say that those of us who consider ideas like this are just slightly deranged and crazy.
This is also part of the mind control system.
But what I do, I do have hope because I do see Just in my personal experience in daily life, the people I meet, I see more and more people who are questioning the whole basis of consensual reality that our government's foist upon us.
People are outraged and angry and not accepting it.
The internet is an enormous instrument at the level of consciousness for people to share ideas that will not be considered in the mainstream media.
So really we should never expect the mainstream media to cover stuff like this because they are part of the mind control system.
Absolutely part of it.
Do you think that coast-to-coast being a nighttime program actually feeds to the government?
Because if it was a daytime program, this would not be happening.
But here you have 25 million listeners, and nothing comes out.
Well, but what's coming out is at the level of consciousness, that people are changing their lives and changing the way that they look at the world.
And as that groundswell builds, let's not expect it to happen overnight.
It's going to take time.
But as that groundswell builds, It becomes more and more irresistible and eventually we reach a level of critical mass where the whole society turns in a different direction and rejects utterly the lies and the falsehoods that have been foisted on them for so long by their government.
And maybe that moment is not so far away as we think.
I'll tell you what the mainstream media will cover from this show.
If, for example, a group of people who think that Some sort of spacecraft is following a comet.
Decide to go out and commit suicide.
The mainstream media thinks that they can pin it on a program like this.
They go after it like attack dogs.
Turns out they couldn't.
They go after it like attack dogs.
They will use everything they can to discredit this line of thinking.
And that's what we have to resist.
We have to resist it as individuals at the grassroots level.
We have to remember that our governments lie to us all the time.
I think it's a really important realization that when you hear a statement from a government nine times out of ten, there's going to be an untruth in that statement, if you really examine it closely.
You know, we have to do that, and we have to realize that very clever, very effective propaganda techniques are used to structure the way we think, even to provide us with certain language that stops us thinking in other ways.
Exactly right.
Graham, hold it right there.
We're again at the bottom of the hour.
Time is just flying right by.
This is, uh, this is classic stuff.
I'm Art Bell.
Stay right where you are.
No one can stop us now.
And that's very nearly true.
Never say never.
But the fact that Coast to Coast AM has succeeded beyond all expectations is in itself a kind of a hopeful fact.
Against all odds, this program grabbed more listeners than anybody Could possibly imagine!
And a lot of people were very upset by that fact and still are.
So the fact that we exist and we're virtually unstoppable at this point, in itself, says an awful lot.
I'm Art Bell.
Graham's back right after this.
By the way, if you'd like to communicate with me, you can do it
very easily on the internet, artbell at mindspring.com.
That's artbell at mindspring.com.
Graham, if people want to communicate with you, and after what you've let us through tonight, they're going to.
Is there a way to do that?
Yes, absolutely.
First of all, through my website, www.grahamhancock.com, I can be reached at graham at grahamhancock.com.
Or I can be reached directly on a Google Mail address which is graham.contact at googlemail.com.
And indeed my site mail just transfers through to that Google Mail address which I've recently
set up.
I used to receive all my site mail on a dial-up modem and it just became overwhelming and
too much.
I still feel guilty about this.
I finally just couldn't... I just couldn't deal with it anymore.
It was taking too long to deal with, but I've now created this new account, and that should be the easier... Now, I can't promise to reply to everybody, but I will do... I will do my level best to get to them in due course.
All right, good enough.
Wild Card Line 3, it would be Ralph in Sacramento.
You're on with Graham.
Okay, it's an honor, and I'd like to ask Graham.
I just saw Alex Jones' latest DVD called Terror Storm.
It's very interesting, and so my question is just plain and simple.
How long do you think it will be before all of the people of the world, no matter what their cultural background is, just rise up against this worldwide dictatorship?
Yeah, thank you for that question.
I think it's coming soon.
I think there is a grassroots shift of consciousness spreading rapidly around the world and we are all beginning to realize how deceived we have been by our governments.
And once we realize that our governments have deceived us heinously in one area, then we begin to realize that they're probably deceiving us heinously in every other area as well.
And the Internet has played a huge role in allowing people to compare notes and compare experiences and wake up.
And once critical mass is reached, then this kind of thing happens very quickly.
And I would say we've been building towards a kind of critical mass for the last 10 years.
And so it may just be that this dramatic, gigantic shift in consciousness is just around the corner and that we're going to find We're going to find a new way to live together as a species on this planet, a way that is motivated by love and decency and kindness and concern for our fellow human beings, rather by greed and hatred and violence and control.
Or else.
Or else, yeah.
It's got to happen.
It's got to happen.
Otherwise, our time as a species on this beautiful planet under the protection of Mother Nature will be lost.
We will lose that gift.
We will lose that gift that we've been given.
The Buddhists say, you know, it is a tremendous gift to be born in a human body when we might have been born, you know, as an insect.
It's a tremendous gift to have this extraordinary body, this extraordinary brain with its endless and limitless potential.
And sadly, right now in the world we live in, under the malicious force of controlling governments, we are not being allowed to realize our potential.
And we are wasting it, wasting it, wasting it.
By the way, Graham, you mentioned your belief in reincarnation.
I'm with you on that as well.
Do you think that human consciousness reincarnates always or nearly always again as human?
I think it would depend how that person lived their life, what they made of the gift of life.
It may be necessary that they go back to an earlier stage and have to deal with more challenges to develop their consciousness.
So I don't think it's inevitable.
That we would be reborn in human bodies, but I think it's more likely to happen than not.
But I think a lot depends, and if you look at all the doctrines of all the ancient texts, they tell us this, that how we lead our lives really, really matters.
Many people don't think that the ancient Egyptians believed in reincarnation, but I'm absolutely certain that they did from a deep study of the pyramid texts and the books of the dead.
I'm sure the ancient Egyptians believed in reincarnation, and the ancient Egyptians believed that after death our souls make a journey.
We travel through a kind of strange parallel world where we confront the issues that have been raised by our own lives, and we finally face a judgment in what they call the Hall of Mart.
And Mart was a goddess who represented truth and justice, and to fail in that judgment is to be annihilated forever.
To pass through the judgment is to have the opportunity to be reborn again in a human body, and ultimately to be reborn as a star.
That was the ultimate objective of ancient Egyptian religion, and a very beautiful one.
And if I understand the purpose of the pyramids, it was to launch one on that journey, wasn't it?
I believe that that's what the pyramids were about.
They were about preparation.
For the journey that we will face after death, it was a kind of three-dimensional model, in a way, of the afterlife realm that we see depicted on the tombs of later pharaohs in the Valley of the Kings.
The ancient Egyptians devoted their best minds for 3,000 years to considering really only one question, what happens to us when we die?
And their answer to that question is a question that we should listen to, that consciousness goes on and that consciousness We'll face a reckoning for what it has or has not done with this life, and that it's vitally important to be kind, to give love, to love.
That is the greatest human gift of all, boundless and endless love, if we can only reunite with it.
But we must also not waste this life that we have.
We must use it for the best possible purposes.
All right.
Ron, first time caller on line, South Holland, I believe it is, Illinois.
You're on the air with Graham Hancock.
Thank you.
The late Father Malachite Martin, in an interview with Art Bell, mentioned a fourth place, earth, heaven, hell, and a fourth place where demons dwell.
Mr. Hancock refers to a place of serpents, and maybe a place of enlightenment, But to me, it sounds like the fourth place Father Malachi Martin warned us about.
Well, I have to tell you, these serpents that all of us who drink ayahuasca encounter are not evil.
They are teachers.
They ask us to focus on anger and hatred in our own lives and rethink it and live a better life.
I've seen this happen to so many people.
There's nothing evil or monstrous about them.
They're friendly.
They exude a kind of love, a deep love for mankind.
And you know, the Christian notion of the serpent as a symbol of evil is rooted and grounded in a particular editing of the texts of Genesis.
The Gnostics, who were suppressed and burnt at the stake by the Roman Catholic Church, The Gnostics had a different idea.
They believed that the serpent was an agent of liberation for mankind.
In the Gnostic story, the serpent is the good guy, not the bad guy.
So I think we have to remember, when we look at the text of the Old Testament and of the New Testament, that we're looking at edited documents which serve the interests of particular groups, and that there are other texts, banned texts, the texts that are found, for example, in the Nag Hammadi library of the Gnostics, which give a completely different picture of the same stories.
All right.
East of the Rockies, Kathy Westfield-Mass, you're on with Graham Hancock.
Oh, good morning to both of you.
My question to you is, have you ever read or even looked at the book Aranta?
Interesting synchronicity there.
A copy of the book Arantia was given to me in Boulder, Colorado, just this November, just less than two months ago.
My goodness, it's a very big book.
It's a very big book.
But it's sitting on my shelves, and it came to me with such powerful recommendations from people I respect that I am going to be reading that book.
It has everything from Jesus' life, to how religion came to be, to what happened to our planet weather-wise throughout the ages ancient and before, all the peoples where they traveled, What UFOs are, how UFOs travel through space, and if there are any other entities out there in space that are similar to us.
Alright, well it sounds like by the next show, ma'am, or Kathy, he'll be able to comment on it for you.
Also, my question to you is, do you think that DNA has a God-connected belt into the system?
Do I think there's a connection between God and DNA?
In the DNA.
I believe there's a connection between spiritual realms and DNA.
You know, in this argument that goes on between creationists and evolutionists, the evolutionists keep saying that because they've identified the process of evolution, that proves that there's no such thing as God or a creator.
What complete nonsense that is!
Any creator that one can conceive of would be obliged to use something like DNA, and would be obliged to use a mechanism like evolution.
Of course there must be evolution, because life faces threats and difficulties that are random and unpredictable.
And life must be able to bounce back and evolve, but the fact that evolution occurs, to me, is just more evidence that a Creator exists, and that He's very bloody smart.
All right.
Welcome to the Rockies.
Lynn, up in Washington.
Hi there.
This conversation is so thrilling, I'm sitting here with my heart just pounding.
Normally I walk around in a complete state of depression and a sense of gloom, like there's a dark cloud hanging over my head.
I relate it to a sense of the dying planet, but for some reason, listening to Graham talk, I feel elated and happy and almost excited.
I guess it's because it makes me feel less alone and connected, and that's the thought.
Thank you for that thought, and I'm very glad if I've been able to If I've been able to do that, we are all connected.
And the experiences that we have, which have for so long been written off and rubbished and ignored by science, are of fundamental importance in understanding who and what we are.
The unity of the human family, the deep bonds of love that unite all of us, are still there despite everything that this evil society in which we live has tried to do.
Wild card line.
That'd be Colin in Watertown, New York.
You're on the air with Graham Hancock.
Good evening, Art.
How are we doing?
Just spiffy, sir.
I actually kind of had two things.
I'm going to make it quick here.
The first one was a lot of people are on this whole global warming kick.
Not too many people actually look at the fact that we're still technically coming out of an ice age.
And while I don't deny the fact that we are helping the system along with the global warming, a lot of people don't take into account that fact.
And then for your guest as well, my question for him was, do you think that, because I heard you talking about the early reptiles and the DMT, do you think that it's possible that the grand creator decided to put some sort of a time stamp or time check to where we evolve to a certain point where this will actually come more into play and we'll become more aware of it and actually be able to travel into the spiritual world without the use of DMT, but just strictly by the amount that is produced by our brains.
Yes, absolutely.
I think that potential is there in all of us.
I think that I think that the process of evolution has been awaiting the appearance of a being intelligent enough to make use of this level of consciousness, and we are that being, and there are huge forces in our society that are struggling to suppress our potential, and other forces that are at work that are allowing us to release that potential.
I do actually believe that there is a message from our Maker written in our DNA.
I do go into this at great length in my book, Supernatural.
We don't have time to cover it here, unfortunately.
But thank you for that question.
It raises a very important point.
And yes, the other point, we are emerging from an ice age.
And there have been extremes of climate in the past.
I think what's new is the massive scale of industrial pollution that we have added to the world.
And we just don't know where that's going to take us.
But it looks like it's taking us to a bad place.
It looks like we're about to find out.
Wildcard Line 2, Stewart in Vernon, BC, Canada.
You're on with Graham.
Hello.
Hi there.
Hi, hey, good, good.
I'm glad I got through.
I just wanted to ask you about the Hollow Earth and what your thoughts were on that.
Yep.
As well as, have you ever heard of the Great White Brotherhood?
Not much about the Hollow Earth, I must confess.
I have heard the Hollow Earth.
The Hollow Earth Theory, but I just don't know enough about it to say anything worthwhile.
I really don't... I think science is pretty well... You know what?
I don't want to say much about it either.
I just don't know.
First time caller line, David in Highland, New York.
You're on with Graham.
Hi Art, you rock.
You started a really good thing here.
And Graham, I loved your book on the pre-Diluvian or anti-Diluvian civilizations.
My question is, have you heard of the religious practices that go on in the pyramid, where you go through a very long, prolonged process to build yourself up, and then you actually lay down in the King's Chamber, and actually the forces or energies come down and terpeno-gland and expand it?
I myself have done that, and I have experienced consciousness expansion, would be the best way to call it, lying in the sarcophagus in the King's Chamber.
In the Great Pyramid, and I do believe that the pyramid is a gigantic instrument that is designed to affect and alter human consciousness, and to make us think the unthinkable, to widen our horizons.
And it's an amazing tribute to the astonishing skills of those who created the pyramid, that even today, thousands of years later, and separated from its cultural background, it still continues to work this magic.
On almost everyone who approaches it.
Very powerful spiritual instrument.
Obviously the Egyptians knew a great deal, but I wonder if they had it completely right.
That we don't really know.
We don't know.
They're fallible just as we are.
I think all we can say about the Egyptians for sure is, as I mentioned earlier, that what they chose to put their best minds to work on We're spiritual issues and spiritual problems, whereas today we put our best minds to work creating weapons and washing machines and things like that.
Yes.
Quickly, I think we're almost out of time.
Beth in Deer Park, Washington, you're on the air with Graham.
Art, I am so excited you're back in the States.
When I was driving home from work tonight, I was elated, and then Graham came on, and I read Fingerprints of the Gods years ago, and I'm just so excited to listen to you, Graham.
Thank you.
And I wanted to ask, have you seen the Flower of Life tapes?
No, I'm afraid that's another thing I haven't seen, but I have indeed heard of them and had some contact with people who have.
Well, it seems like you're right in the same vein as Melchizedek there with his... This is Brunvalo Melchizedek, yes.
Yes, I think that you'd enjoy listening to those tapes, and they were very enlightening for me, and listening to you, I'm just saying, right on!
And I'm behind you, and you made me so happy tonight, and you too, Art, for coming back to the United States.
I'd like to add to that, Art.
It's wonderful to hear you back, and it's just wonderful that this great show is still hanging in there and changing human consciousness night by night.
It is amazing, Graham.
And this program tonight has been absolutely beyond all my expectations.
You have made Quite a transformation from the early Graham that I knew to the Graham of tonight, haven't you?
I have, Art.
I have indeed, and some of those experiences I've had down in the Amazon have been a big part of it.
My friend, thank you for being here.
We're simply out of time.
We're going to do this again very soon.
Wonderful.
Good night, Graham.
Good night, Art.
I don't know how they did it.
They said they didn't have a copy of it, but here it is.
Ladies and gentlemen, see you tomorrow night.
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