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Aug. 27, 2006 - Art Bell

02:39:13

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Whitley Strieber - Encounters with Grays

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	From the Southeast Asian capital city of the Philippines, Manila, comprised of 7,107 islands in Southeast Asia, I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
	I bid you good day, good evening, good morning, whatever the case may be where you are.
	For the record, where I am presently, it's a few minutes after 1 o'clock in the afternoon.
	However, my room is darkened down.
	In the appropriate manner to conduct a show of this sort, Coast to Coast AM, and I urge you to join me as your evening, morning, or afternoon progresses.
	We truly are a worldwide affair.
	What we're really doing here is a miracle, and it's kind of like time travel.
	It's Monday where I am, and in the city in which I'm located, Manila, the traffic on Monday is just absolute.
	Actually, every day it's terrible, but Monday particularly terrible.
	Um, I have, uh, here in Manila, uh, we have a numbers system, so that you have to pick one day during the week when you cannot drive, and my one day is Monday.
	This is a day that I cannot drive in the, uh, metro area.
	Now, and it's all according to license plates, uh, kind of like some cities in the U.S., actually.
	Uh, my webcam shot, uh, tonight, uh, is very much like the one last night, except from the opposite direction.
	And I got a lot of very, very interesting responses.
	We were talking about reality on yesterday's program.
	What is reality?
	Well, let me tell you.
	I put up a shot of my living room here, A, for everybody to see it, but B, Just as sort of a test and had people describe what they saw and hundreds of emails, hundreds of them describing faces that were seen in the rugs and, oh, you just wouldn't believe what I got.
	So, you know, reality is such an individual by perception thing.
	We're going to have to do more exploration of this.
	And speaking of more exploration, during this hour we're going to change things up a little bit.
	During this hour, I'm going to be taking open line calls.
	So if any of you out there have had a conscious experience involving another dimension, then I want you to pick up the line and call.
	If not, just go ahead and hang up and we'll do regular open lines some other time.
	But tonight, if you would please, only If you have had a conscious transport into some other dimension, short or long, I'd like to hear from you.
	You'll be getting the numbers toward the bottom of the hour.
	Many of you, of course, already have them.
	So anyway, the webcam shot tonight is Sort of taken from the opposite direction toward the kitchen from the living area.
	A lot of people curious about where I live over here.
	I'll try and get different photographs up to sort of give you an idea.
	Anyway, that's opposite direction.
	Now, on the Coast2CoastAM.com website right now, we have something that somebody sent me, and I guess it's been posted previously.
	I don't know, but oh my God, you've got to take a look.
	It's a space shuttle Mission in which, as they do so many times, they had a camera pointed down at the earth.
	Now, a number of people looked at this video, which you can look at just by Going up, and there's no way in hell that's space debris.
	It's too big.
	It's too far from the camera.
	And there's too many of them.
	If you want to sit there and say it's all space debris, well, go right ahead.
	But I would urge you to have a seat in front of your monitor and take a look at this video.
	It's directly from NASA.
	It's unmodified, unchanged.
	There was a little bit of zooming in attempted, but I'm telling you right now, this is not space debris.
	Have a look, see what you think, report to me.
	And by the way, in terms of reporting to me, you can do so, you can email me.
	At the good old email addresses that you always have, that would be Artbell at AOL.com and Artbell at Mindspring.com.
	Once again, Artbell, A-R-T-B-E-L-L at AOL.com or Mindspring.com.
	The Mindspring is the larger mailbox.
	Looking around the world, a little bit of plane crash, wrong runway, Lexington, Kentucky, 49 dead.
	And apparently, the pilot tried to take off on a runway that was 1,000 feet short for the CRJ-100 regional jet that he was trying to take off with.
	And so, of course, it didn't work.
	And he crashed, but I understand about 1,000 feet short.
	Now Hurricane, uh, well excuse me, Tropical Storm.
	Ernesto, really behaving strangely.
	Yesterday, at about this time when I spoke to you, Ernesto was projected to go storming up through the Gulf, centered on about New Orleans.
	Now, within moments of my saying that to you yesterday, they changed it.
	Now, it looks like it's going to be taking a trip up the western side of Florida.
	Now, whether it will intensify, I think it will somewhat.
	Between now and whenever it might strike land, who knows whether it will actually keep this track or not.
	Who knows?
	They seem to be having a lot of trouble forecasting Ernesto.
	We'll see.
	But from the track yesterday to the track today, and the forecast of intensification yesterday versus what we see today, they're just having a really rough time trying to track this one.
	In Iraq, the usual, a wave of bomb attacks and shootings swept Iraq Sunday, killing dozens of people despite a massive security operation in the capital and appeals from the Prime Minister there.
	Hezbollah.
	Interesting admission from Hezbollah.
	Hezbollah leader Sheik Hassan Naraz said in a TV interview aired Sunday, well, he wouldn't have ordered the capture of two Israeli soldiers should he, would he, could he have known that it would have ever led to such a war.
	Guerrillas from the Islamic militant group killed three Israeli soldiers, seized two more in a cross-border raid July 12th that sparked 34 days of fighting, and now he says, well, I never would have done it If I'd known, we'd have had a war like that.
	After his first look inside the nerve center of the U.S.
	military defense system, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld on Sunday sounded a note of caution about expectations that interceptors poised in underground silos there might work in the event of a missile attack by North Korea.
	There are apparently 10 silos there that house single 54-foot-long missile interceptors, and he's got some concern that should North Korea launch and we launch against them, we would not have a whole lot of luck hitting them.
	Doesn't give you a lot of confidence, does it?
	New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin says, you know, Ray Nagin really shouldn't say much anymore.
	Anyway, he says he's sorry he used the term, and I quote, hole in the ground to describe the World Trade Center site.
	Said, I wish I would have basically said that it was an undeveloped site, which it is, he said Sunday on Meet the Press.
	Hole in the ground, huh?
	Well, there were some who were saying that of his city after the hurricane.
	I'll tell you what, we'll take a brief break and look at some of the, as Paul would say,
	rest of the news.
	I'm watching once again the video that you can all watch on the Coast2CoastAM.com website
	and I'll tell you something.
	If that's space debris, I'm a monkey's uncle.
	Well, actually, I might be related to a monkey.
	Way down the line there.
	Samsung has a patent to use the ionosphere, our ionosphere, in a new way.
	The points in the patent brief sound very much like the HAARP project in Alaska.
	It uses multiple HF, that's high frequency signals, at huge effective radiated power to heat the ionosphere, producing various effects for physics research, they say.
	However, one of the side effects, not much discussed outside of classified circles, would be the ability to use the heating to generate VLF, that's very low frequency signals, of great interest to the United States Navy for sub-communication worldwide.
	Now, it is notable at the very least that the United States Navy ELF system, you know
	the big one up in Michigan they had, appears to have gone inactive, coincident with the
	full activation of HAARP.
	Now let's think about that a little bit.
	The only real means they had, albeit slow, of communicating with subs under the water,
	was the Michigan installation, which was able to talk to submarines underwater.
	Now they have activated HAARP which would have application to talk to submarines and they have deactivated the Michigan installation.
	Highly coincidental I would say.
	Strange Goings-On followed discussions about potential UFO evidence.
	That's the headline.
	Publisher and author experience interference and other phenomena since discovering strange images in UFO footage related to a new book.
	Econova, a small independent publishing house on the shores of Vancouver Island, B.C., has recently acquired the manuscript of an eyewitness account pertaining to physical UFO sightings and telepathic contact.
	Eye to the Sky, a paranormal odyssey by Paula Thorncroft, recounts the author's amazingly frequent and vivid interactions with both craft and ET beings.
	But it is the footage that she submitted to substantiate her manuscript that seems to have caused a stir already, and it has not yet even been released.
	However, a couple of hackers got in and apparently got a look-see.
	It's about 25 to 30 minutes total, filmed over two consecutive evenings.
	The last five minutes are the most amazing, revealing not only a large, non-circular craft, but objects that morph from solid to light-based, from one representation to another.
	We are in the process of procuring professional analysis of these images before making the
	footage available to bona fide researchers, but we're hoping to reveal the most profound
	and captivating images on the cover of the book itself, which is due for publication
	December 26, 2006.
	Dark Matter.
	Astronomers tell us that the mysterious substance, we talk about it a lot here on Coast to Coast AM, called dark matter, is the main substance in the universe, but we simply cannot find it.
	Same sort of thing that quantum physicists say about parallel universes, talking about those tonight, or brain worlds, worlds that contain a different number of dimensions from ours.
	Astronomers can detect the presence of dark matter by the way gravity behaves around it, but they now have finally new evidence that it might really exist.
	Dark matter and normal matter have been wrenched apart by the tremendous collision of two large clusters of galaxies, providing the strongest support yet for the evidence of dark matter.
	Astronomer Anthony Gonzales says, quote, it's the most direct evidence that we have thus far for dark matter.
	You can actually see the separation between where the bulk of the matter is and the normal everyday matter is.
	The discovery made with NASA's Chandra X-ray Observatory and other telescopes.
	Somebody writes to me that I've heard on the show many times before your mention of shadow animals.
	That's right, we've talked about them.
	This might be a stupid question, no such thing here, but could there be shadow insects?
	Every now and then I'll see one, a fly, a spider, something small out of the corner of my eye, quickly look to see nothing there directly.
	Could be my eyes playing tricks on me, but I was just curious about what you thought.
	Well, you might be interested in this.
	I've got feelings about things from time to time, and one that really helped me out big time.
	I was at a red light in a hurry as soon as the green came.
	I planned on stepping on the gas and going.
	However, as the green light turned, I got this extreme urge to scratch an itch on my neck.
	Took the time to scratch, not go off right away, thank God.
	Just as I was scratching, a truck flew right through the red light.
	Obviously I'd be dead if I hadn't stopped.
	I suppose sometimes the human brain assists us in that manner.
	I thought it kind of interesting.
	Here's another listener who says, Art, there are some amazing children these days.
	My girlfriend's three-year-old daughter came up to me as I was sitting on the couch and said, quote, go call your uncle.
	And I said, what?
	She said, go call your uncle.
	I laughed it off as some crazy thing she had in her child's mind.
	Went home.
	The phone rang.
	A voice, male, informed me quickly that my aunt had died minutes ago.
	Art, you tell me.
	Well, I can't.
	Of course.
	So there's more in this world than we can explain and one of those things is certainly
	what we were hearing yesterday during a...
	By the way, Whitley Streber will be here in the next hour and he'll be here for, I think, three hours of the program.
	I'm really looking forward to that.
	He's got a new book called The Greys.
	If anybody in this world is qualified to write a book about The Greys, it's Whitley Streber.
	I talked to him one time previously about it.
	We'll get another opportunity tonight.
	Once again, I want to urge those of you on the line To do me a favor, and if you are not calling about a trip or an experience with another dimension, a conscious experience, no, I had dreams, but conscious travel to another dimension, simply hang up and we'll catch you another time.
	If you have had such an experience, stay right where you are.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good evening, Art.
	Good evening, sir.
	My name is Mike, and I'm calling from Booneville, Missouri.
	I'm originally from Rhode Island, been out here almost seven years.
	This happened just about two weeks ago.
	I was sitting in my chair, and all of a sudden, I saw myself standing at a pond fishing.
	Really?
	And I caught a really nice bass, but the bass got away.
	Yeah, right.
	They always get away.
	No, I'm with you.
	I'm sorry for laughing.
	I know, I know.
	This is probably another fish story, the one that got away.
	But at the same time, I saw myself standing at the pond all disgusted.
	Well, sure, it got away.
	You know, here's the thing, though.
	I mean, all right, look.
	If I was, one moment, sitting in a chair, and then, boom, like that.
	The next moment, I was standing there with a fishing pole in front of a lake.
	I would be so freaked out.
	I'd drop the fishing pole and probably faint on the ground.
	I mean, how did you avoid that kind of shock?
	Well, this kind of stuff happens to me all my life.
	All my life.
	So you're used to it?
	I am, yeah.
	Well, back August 16th, 1999 at 830 p.m.
	You can look this up.
	It was in the Woonsocket call.
	It made it at some other date in the Woonsocket call in the month of August of 1999.
	What is that?
	Your local paper?
	Out there in Woonsocket, Rhode Island.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	We had spotted a mother-size UFO.
	This thing did unbelievable things.
	Bouncing up in the air, defying gravity.
	I mean, it was incredible.
	Incredible, and what validated the whole thing is that we didn't even know, but there was a police officer that was searching the area, but our eyes were fixed on a sky, and there were people that lived up in this apartment, an elderly couple.
	They came out, and they were looking at him.
	None of us even knew the police officer was there, and all of a sudden, he popped his head up out of nowhere, and he said, hey, what are you folks doing here?
	And we all said, officer, we're looking at that up there in the sky.
	He looked up, he got on his walkie-talkie, he said, Lieutenant, you're not going to believe this, but I'm looking at a UFO, and there's people all around here.
	And then all of a sudden the street got crowded with police officers and people from all over the place watching this thing for a good 15 minute show.
	Alright, do you think that your experience with the UFO is in any way perhaps related to your ability to move into other areas of reality?
	Absolutely.
	I'll tell you why, because I'm also a musician, I'm a former truck driver, and the things that I've seen out there and listening to are... I was listening to your show a few years ago, and I guess you had a Hopi Indian prophet.
	That's right, that's right.
	And he talked about some kind of a special mountain lion, that if that mountain lion was spotted, that this was another prophecy to come to pass.
	That's right.
	And I was in Illinois, and I drink a lot of spring water.
	Um, and I had to go to the bathroom, and this was about two o'clock in the morning, and I went to pull over.
	There was nothing around, so I went to pull over to jump off the truck, and my headlights shined on this cat-like figure that just stood up from behind the embankment, and it looked like it had a kill of some sort, because his face looked kind of bloody, or her face, and I said to myself, I never saw a cat like this in my entire life.
	It looked bigger than a mountain lion, And you think it was what the Hopi spoke of?
	Well, it was like about a month later, when I was listening to your program with the Hopi Indian Prophet, he started describing the cat that I saw a month before.
	Could have been a coincidence, of course, but interesting, and certainly your ability to move into other areas of reality, or other realities, I guess would be a better way to put it, is also very, very interesting.
	I really think, from the number of emails that I'm getting on this subject, and it's absolutely what I'd call a landslide.
	I mean a real landslide.
	People, this is not the kind of, it's kind of like UFOs in a way.
	You know, I don't want to report one of those things.
	Do you?
	No.
	I don't want to report going to another reality because that's, you know, under normal circumstances, if it's not coast-to-coast AM, it's liable to get you locked up somewhere and the nice young men in the white coats assisting you and all the rest of it.
	But I think there are a lot of people who have these experiences who are able to move in and out of what we call our present reality.
	Just simply move in and out of it.
	Some at will, some just suddenly shocked and finding themselves in a different locale, people dressed in a different way, perhaps even a different time.
	There's no way to know.
	But there's a very great deal of this going on.
	We've stumbled over things like this in the past on Coast to Coast AM, but this one is a real beaut.
	And I'm telling you right now, I'm getting Literally hundreds of emails from people who either accidentally or intentionally are able to move out of what we would term our present reality.
	And if you want another great kick, you should sit here and read some of the emails that I've been receiving on the simple description of the picture that I put up yesterday.
	Oh my, how reality varies out there.
	From Manila in the Philippines, I'm Art Bell.
	This is almost Matrix-like stuff.
	I'm telling you right now that while everybody just sort of assumes that they're seeing the same thing, we're looking at A, but we're not all necessarily seeing A. We're seeing part of A and a little bit of B and C and D and some people are seeing on further down the alphabet.
	I can tell you right now, you should see some of the responses just to that photograph that we took yesterday.
	In a moment, we'll explore others who have explored elsewhere.
	Pat, who does not give a location for writing this Fast Blast, says,
	Hey Art, how do we know if our experience is reality or a dream?
	If it looks like a duck, quacks like it, what is it?
	Pat, I don't know.
	I'm beginning to wonder more and more.
	If you'd been here to see the varied descriptions received of the simple photograph I put up yesterday.
	And through the years, of course, we've had a lot of people arguing Almost unarguable facts that one does begin to wonder if everybody sees or perceives the same reality and I think the answer is we don't.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air, hello.
	Hello Art, this is Mary from Ohio.
	Hi Mary!
	Hi, it's so exciting talking to you and I'm so glad you're talking about this topic because I thought I was going crazy.
	No.
	This has happened to me three distinct times that I can recall.
	And there's no unidentified aliens, and there's no spaceships.
	But what it is, is almost like walking through a shimmer in time.
	It's daytime, and I can be looking at something, and I'm looking at what seems to be a giant gila monster that is sitting, basking in the sun.
	And when I shake my head, because I don't believe I'm seeing it, it goes away.
	Wow.
	How long does it last?
	Very quick or what?
	It's very quickly.
	It reminds me of that old science fantasy book, A Wrinkle in Time, because that's what it feels like.
	It feels like I've gotten stuck in a part of time.
	Well, that may be exactly what it is, Mary.
	I just, I can't believe all the emails I'm getting.
	Exactly the same sort of thing.
	Some longer, some shorter, Mary, but all sort of the same type of thing.
	And so, you know, it's like we've fallen into something again here.
	Something that, have you talked to many people about it?
	No, because I know people think I'm crazy.
	And when I heard you talking about this last week, it's like, oh my gosh, I must not be the only person experiencing this.
	Not by a long shot.
	Very reassuring.
	I thank you so much, Mr. Bell.
	Mary, thank you for calling and take care.
	So there you've got it.
	I'm telling you, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of emails just like the story you got from Mary or more extensive.
	Now we've really stumbled into something.
	There's no question about it.
	I'm not sure exactly where it's going to go, but it's not going to be for lack of exploration that we halt.
	Another wild card line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	Hi, this is Jason from Arcata, California.
	Humboldt.
	Yes, Jason.
	How are you doing, Art?
	Okay, Jason.
	I've been a fan since 93, and this is the first time I've gotten a chance to talk to you, and ironically the topic is Really quite apropos for my story for you.
	Fire away.
	Well, you know, I've also always been a really interested person in hallucinogenics and where that actually takes you.
	I'm not sure if you're familiar with Stanislav Grof, but he wrote a book, LSD Psychotherapy.
	And about three years ago, I had electrocuted my hand.
	So I had seen a bunch of specialists.
	I couldn't move any of the fingers on my left hand, I couldn't move my wrist, and there were really no answers from any doctors on what I could do.
	Later on, after maybe a couple days of not being able to move my hand, maybe a week, I ingested some DMT, which I had done before and experienced several altered realities in that time.
	But on this specific occasion, I felt myself being pulled literally into another reality, for lack of a better word.
	And in that reality, I just, as soon as I felt it, I went into my bedroom, laid down, closed my eyes, saw amazing, just amazing things, indescribable images.
	And later, after a few minutes of that, I remember being on what seemed like a surgical table, surrounded by what seemed like a bunch of greys.
	And I had no verbal conversation with any of these entities.
	But I have a distinct... I mean, I remember this like I'm talking to you now.
	I mean, this was for sure not a dream, not anything else.
	Right, I've got you.
	And I take it that after you returned from this trip, your hand was once again functioning?
	Absolutely.
	After about 20 minutes, I actually remember one of the greys actually touching my arm where it was hurt on the underside of the forearm.
	I recall his hand going through my hand.
	After about 20 minutes, I had a bunch of people in my house, some friends and family.
	I got up, went into the other room, and my hand worked 100%.
	Saw a doctor the next day, and just, it couldn't be explained.
	Okay, Jason, I appreciate the story, and that's exactly, exactly what I was after.
	Now, who is to say, and we'll get to talk to Whitley Striever at the top of the hour, but who's to say, in quotes, the Grays are not from another Another dimension.
	Who is to say that the Greys are from some far off star light, many, many hundreds of light years away or whatever?
	Who's to say they're simply not from another dimension?
	And who is to say that DMT was not the transportation device that got him where he needed to go?
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi, my name is Mark from Cleveland, Ohio.
	Hello, Mark.
	And I exist in It could be another dimension or universe, like anywhere from a split second up to 10 seconds in advance of the future.
	And one time this was proven out amongst all the people who knew me at a local carnival.
	We had a gambling table and I sat there for about a good three hours telling people when to bet and when not to bet.
	And we took them to task.
	I mean, just wiped the table.
	And everybody was like, how do you know?
	How do you know?
	And it was a simple dice game.
	So what did you tell them when they said, how do you know?
	What did you say?
	I just said, I know.
	I just know.
	It's like I knew what the throw of the dice was going to be.
	It was a simple like 50-50 chance.
	You know, you roll the dice.
	Well, you put your money down.
	I know how it works.
	I lived in Nevada for a lot of years.
	Okay, well you'd be a popular guy in Nevada, no question about that.
	Another example, somebody with precognitive abilities, not far into the future, 10, 15, 20 seconds, whatever.
	That's about all you'd need in a situation like that, huh?
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi Art, it's a pleasure and an honor to talk to you.
	My name is Linda and I'm from the San Francisco Bay Area.
	Hi Linda.
	What makes my experience really unique, I happen to be blind from birth, and my physical sight situation, I've only been able to see light out of one eye.
	And so what makes this really weird, between the ages of four and seven, I would be awakened in the middle of the night, and I would see things, light, beams of light out of both eyes.
	It started out, the first time it happened, I would just see light.
	And of course I didn't know what I was, you know, experiencing.
	And I ran to my mom out in the living room, Mommy, Mommy, I see bugs in my bed.
	And of course, that's, you know, she confirmed that no, there were no bugs, there were no lights.
	And you're sure it wasn't a dream, just a bad dream?
	Right, exactly.
	But then when it kept on happening, First, it was as if a presence would show me shapes.
	Like first, the little dot of light would be about the size of a dime, and then it would get bigger and be the size of my pillow, and more intense in quality.
	I never have seen color, so it looked like sunlight, except more intense.
	And then gradually, as I got older, I would see beings that were made out of light.
	Linda, do you think you were seeing these with some kind of actual suddenly restored vision, or do you think you were seeing them in your mind?
	No, I was definitely seeing them in my mind.
	It was like I was looking on a TV screen.
	It was almost as if I was being shown them from some presence or being.
	And it's like they would show me buildings, except the walls were really thin.
	And it was as if they were made out of something other than, you know, concrete or brick or wood or, you know, it was really... And this ended at age seven?
	Right.
	Do you have any idea why you were being shown all of this?
	Well, actually, a psychic later on suggested that I might have had lifetimes on other planets, and that I was probably not from Earth, that is, my soul was not from Earth, even though I was experiencing this lifetime on Earth, and that I might have been having some other planetary experience.
	And I have had a lot of paranormal kinds of experiences this lifetime.
	Maybe there might be some other life recall.
	It's a possibility.
	Alright, Linda, thank you very much.
	Alright, that's again exactly what we're talking about.
	And you see, once you open the lines to something like this, and you realize that there have been so many instances of this on Coast to Coast AM, Shadow People were another incident very much like this that just opened the floodgates, and this one also has opened the floodgates.
	Interdimensional travel.
	Reality.
	It's all sort of mixed up together.
	In other words, how many people are actually seeing other realities?
	How often do we compare what we consider to be a reality, as in the photograph that I put up yesterday?
	How often do we compare what we're seeing?
	Well, we just don't do that, do we?
	Or if we do, it's a very simple, oh yeah, I see that.
	Well, do we really see the same thing?
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi Art, this is Cass from California.
	Hi Cass.
	And first I want to give you a mazel tov on your marriage.
	Thank you.
	Okay, first I should say that during the late 70s and through most of the 90s I saw a hypnotist and at the beginning mainly for pain control and I learned quickly that she was also a psychic.
	So, but anyway, I'd had a lot of experience while she was alive with, we used to call it going under, being hypnotized, either from her or a tape, although it's all self-hypnosis, because you won't be hypnotized if you don't wish to be.
	That's right.
	And, well, I was going through a period It was after she had died.
	I had all kinds of out-of-body experiences when she was alive, always from sleep, although I'd remember a lot of them.
	After she died, I was going through a horrible period.
	My son and I just dropped right into terrible poverty, and something came up for him that looked like, if it worked, we could be like multi-millionaires.
	And I was in a, for the first time in about ten years, I was in a very relaxed state.
	I was just reading in bed.
	And suddenly, this had never happened before, while awake, out of the blue, I went into, I went under.
	Hypnotically, or some people might have said, I just felt, I wasn't sleeping though.
	I was in another place, and as I was moving around, I have to tell you this, too.
	I'm a smoker, and my hypnotist, who I came to call my psychic, my spiritual advisor, really wanted me to quit smoking.
	And I did do it in the 70s, but I was back to smoking in the 90s.
	And I had also read in Ruth Montgomery, many years before, that her channeler, had kept telling her to quit smoking because it was so much
	harder after you died.
	Or it went to the other side.
	Okay, so I'm...
	You mean harder to quit or harder...
	You mean they've got cigarettes on the other side?
	Well, you still have the desire, but you can't smoke!
	You can't get over the desire!
	I see, so there are no cigarettes on the other side.
	I guess not!
	But you carry the habit over with you.
	That's very depressing to hear.
	Alright, anyway, your story.
	Okay, so I was suddenly in another place and I saw on a table A package that was red.
	And I immediately knew, even though I was not smoking this type at the time, that it was Marlboro.
	And I reached my hand out to pick up the package to get a cigarette, but my hand went through it.
	Oh, brother.
	That's part of it.
	I guess that's one of the main reasons why it's harder to quit afterward.
	I mean, that's even worse.
	The pack is there, but your hand goes through it.
	So the cigarettes are there, but you can't... Oh, brother.
	Yeah.
	And then pretty soon afterward, I was back to myself.
	That was the main thing I remembered.
	All right, well, we'll have to hold it there, but that's a gee whiz one for sure, and I'm going to have to think that one over.
	Now, I have not, by the way, there are a lot of questions about it, I have not totally quit smoking.
	I've cut down to about one-tenth of what I was smoking, for those who are curious.
	I've had a lot of questions about that.
	At least one-tenth of what I had previously.
	I was a chain smoker.
	There was no question about it.
	And I'm down to about a tenth of that, and maybe less.
	So there you have it, those who are asking.
	Again, by the way, I want to note that Denny's is sponsoring the first hour of the program.
	I think it's so appropriate.
	They're 24-hour a day.
	restaurant and I'm so very glad to have them sponsoring the first hour of the program here on the weekends.
	I think it's really cool.
	I want to acknowledge one more thing too because at the top of the hour we're going to have Whitley on and away we will go into the grays and that is yesterday apparently I had somebody fast blast this to me but yesterday apparently I was awarded the honor of being one of the 25 greatest talk show hosts of all time.
	Now I've been on the talkers list of You know, top 100 talk show host or whatever it is that they've had in the past years, many times.
	But this certainly would be a first, one of the top 25 of all time, actually about number 12.
	And I don't know, I felt that was, I looked it up when I got off the air and I thought that was indeed a big honor.
	Let's go to, I think Claremont, California, and say hello, you're on the air.
	Hey Art, this is Aries from Claremont.
	Yes, there is.
	And I had an experience when I was nine years old, I was in my room playing with Legos, when all of a sudden the room went completely white, and an entity was in front of me, even though I couldn't see him, I knew he was there.
	And he asked me if I wanted to go look at some neat stuff, you know, so I, you know, I wasn't afraid or anything.
	I said, sure.
	So anyways, all of a sudden we were in outer space and traveling around the universe, looking at all these, like, Supernovas and galaxies and clusters and, you know, all that stuff.
	And basically, he was showing me around stuff that looked exactly like the Hubble pictures and stuff.
	But there was no sense of motion, no sense of being anywhere.
	And you're sure you were, you're certain you were awake Ares?
	Oh yeah.
	This was not a dream.
	Yeah.
	And then as he brought me back, he said, same old Ares, you know, always, you know, try anything and not thinking first, you know, and never did figure out what that meant.
	But I ran screaming to my mom's work, trying to tell her what happened, you know, and she was real busy and didn't want to hear it, you know.
	I've thought of this every day of my life since that day and it was like 1973.
	Well listen, buddy, I guess all I can offer you is the obvious information, if you've been listening tonight, that you're not alone.
	That this is happening to a lot of people out there, and that we've really stumbled into something significant.
	If you could look at the lines right now, they're all packed like little sardines in there, so we're going to spend more time on this topic, but the subject of reality Maybe the Matrix, but particularly reality, and trips from here, fast, very quick trips, more times than not, from this reality to another reality.
	We'll bring that subject up again, believe me.
	From Manila in the Philippines, I'm Art Bell.
	Oh boy.
	In a country where they turn back time, That's actually where I am right now, everybody.
	It's a country where they turn back time.
	In Southeast Asia, Manila, the Philippines, I'm Art Bell.
	Coming up here in a moment, Whitley Strieber.
	Whitley, of course, is a very, very good friend of mine and author of many best-selling novels and works of non-fiction.
	Four movies now have been made from his books.
	Most recently, the 2004 mega-hit, The Day After Tomorrow, based on his novel, Superstorm, written by, well, of course, Whitley and myself.
	Among his best-selling novels are The Wolfen, The Hunger, which was made into a film.
	He's also written other best-sellers, including Billy, Cat Magic, Majestic, War Day, my personal favorite, Nature's End, Communion, Transformation, his most recent book, The Graze.
	Is a thriller about what happens when aliens land and I'm gonna tell you all I've talked to a whole lot of people now who said well they went to the bookstore and they picked up the graves and they got through about three or four chapters and then just bought it and went home.
	It's being made into a film by Sony Pictures.
	In 1999 he co-produced with Mark Wolper a special for NBC based on his book Confirmation.
	Communion, perhaps?
	Or confirmation?
	I think communion.
	At present, he and Mark are producing a remake of Wolfen for A&E.
	He has an internet radio program, Dreamland, of course.
	And his website, unknowncountry.com, is indeed the most popular edge science website in the world.
	Whitley Strieber in a moment right here Welcome to the program Whitley
	Bye.
	I'm so delighted to be back with you and to hear your voice.
	I have tried to call you a few times out there in the Philippines, but it hasn't been successful.
	If you send me an email, I will send you the appropriate number to reach me.
	Okay, wonderful.
	I'll do that.
	All right, let me straighten this out.
	The NBC special, was that based on confirmation or communion?
	Confirmation.
	It was based on a book confirmation.
	It was about evidence, hard evidence of UFOs and implants and things like that.
	All right.
	All right.
	I've got something I want to read you that somebody sent ahead of your appearance tonight.
	And here it is.
	One thing that sticks in my mind for Whitley, according to some people that have had contact with them, the Greys supposedly have claimed that they are our progenitors or creators and that they think that that they have the right to experiment with us and do with
	us as they will.
	I wonder about this and I doubt it.
	For one thing, the Greys are reportedly known to have lied on numerous occasions.
	So why would the Greys not be capable of lying about them supposedly being our creators or
	our progenitors?
	Didn't Whitley Strieber say that when he sent some telepathic messages to the Greys telling them they have no right to tinker and experiment with him or us humans, that the response Whitley got back was, yes, we do.
	Well, I don't recall it being a telepathic message.
	I think I yelled it.
	And I think it was on the first night I had close encounter experiences in December of 1985.
	I recall saying something like, you'll ruin a beautiful mind and you don't have any right to do this, and things like that.
	And I do recall being told that, in their opinion, they did have a right.
	We do have a right, as I recall I was told.
	Do you recall if the message that came with that was that we have the right because, in effect, we created you?
	Well, the lady who's on the cover of Communion in another incident said to me, I created you.
	And whether she meant all of us, or just me personally, I don't know.
	But as you know, I always say that, you know, we have to take this whole thing with a grain of salt.
	I'm not so sure I'm ready to believe Anything I'm told without proof by anybody, I mean, much less the Grays.
	And they are, I mean, they are whatever they are and wherever they are from.
	And I would be the first person to say that I don't know the answers to either of those questions.
	They are here, though.
	That I do know, and I would... Okay, that was going to be my question, Whitley.
	Do we have to take the fact of the Grays with a grain of salt, or is there absolutely no question in your mind?
	We... I don't... We have to take the... I think there's no question in my mind that there is somebody here.
	Probably more than one.
	Certainly I know of three that I have personally seen In cases, in two cases, touched, felt, held, and appeared to be real, physically.
	Talked to, in one case.
	Now, the question of what they are, though, is a huge question.
	I think that we, I think we, with all of the UFO evidence, and all of the physical evidence that's out there, And now even Buzz Aldrin said on a British TV documentary that he and the other astronauts aboard Apollo 11 had seen something they couldn't identify and even looked at it through a telescope.
	Yeah, there's a lot of controversy about that.
	Do you have it straight in your mind that he really in fact did say that or did he back away from the statement?
	Well, he made back away from it.
	That's his business.
	But he said it exactly like that.
	And it's on videotape.
	It's not.
	It's available on Google Video, in fact.
	And exactly the words he said.
	And he has to.
	I mean, if he doesn't want to stand behind his words, that's his business.
	But that is, in fact, what he said.
	You know, he can back away from it all he wants to.
	It's something I have heard rumors of for years, but I never spoke up because I'm not going to second-guess anybody.
	If somebody says something, it's a different thing.
	He said they saw something unknown.
	He said they did not report it to Mission Control because of the fact that they were afraid they would be asked to turn around.
	I believe his name was David Baker, if I'm not correct, who was the spokesman for Apollo 11, said that NASA had asked them not to speak, and all of the astronauts, not to speak about UFOs that they had seen because of fear of NASA being ridiculed.
	And this is in that documentary.
	He was on coast to coast just Shortly thereafter, George asked him a direct question about this, and he came back reminding us of the fact that he had sued Charles Berlitz for saying he saw little green men.
	I'm only repeating what the man said in the documentary.
	If he wishes to say that that is not what he meant, then that's his privilege.
	My point being, That there is a load of UFO evidence out there at this point.
	I mean, you were just talking in the first hour about some of that, some of the NASA video, and we speak of confirmation.
	We have some of that video on confirmation.
	We had a representative of NASA look at that video.
	It's even more convincing than the one that you were referring to that's up on coast tonight.
	Incredible video.
	I know, it's absolutely amazing.
	I've seen many.
	I don't see any evidence of UFOs here.
	I've seen many, Whitley, but I'll tell you, the one we've got up there right now, as you point out, it's not necessarily the best one, but as I said, I'll be a monkey's uncle if that's all space debris.
	There's no way in hell.
	It isn't.
	Of course not.
	Of course not.
	And then you add to that all of the video, but you add to that in addition to all of the UFO video, then you have to ask yourself the question, okay, if they're flying around here, Would they not be on the ground also?
	And so turn it around.
	Say we have the ability to go among the stars and to go to other planets and other solar systems.
	And we find an intelligent species who's not quite as advanced as us.
	I don't buy the idea that the greys are light years ahead of us by any means.
	We'll get into that over the course of the show.
	Why not?
	But we find somebody.
	We're going, here's what's going to happen.
	Our scientists are going to say, be careful.
	Don't get diseases from them.
	Don't give them diseases.
	So handle them carefully.
	They're also going to say, do not interrupt their culture or their politics.
	Do not let them know you're here because we want to study their culture.
	Then they're going to say, as time goes on, we're going to want to study their DNA, we're going to want to study their bodies, their physical characteristics, we're going to want to learn everything we can about them.
	And we will be doing to those people exactly what's being done to us today.
	I suppose if we had the chance we would certainly do that.
	Whitley, is there any possibility that the greys have not come across hundreds or thousands of light years to reach us, but that in fact they have simply crossed a dimensional barrier?
	I think there's substantial evidence of that.
	I think that some of the things that happen, and that I can describe happening in my own experience, strongly suggest that.
	That if they do come from another planet, then there is something about the way they come here that makes them appear here in a slightly different physical form, or a slightly different form than we would call a normal physical form.
	Or maybe they're stepping through from another dimension, in which case, then we have to ask ourselves, Can they, would there be, if they can't get through easily, could there be some tripwire, something that we might do inadvertently, that they might be trying to get us to do, that would enable them to come pouring through?
	I wrote a short story years ago called The Open Doors, when I heard a rumor about a paper that had been written by a There's a very extraordinary scientist called John von Neumann, who died in the mid-50s.
	He was a great physicist, and one of the first commentators on the so-called quantum perception problem.
	I've never seen this paper.
	It supposedly exists.
	It's about four pages long.
	It's classified.
	I don't know if it exists, but in it, allegedly, He was of the opinion that there could be a tripwire.
	In other words, if the government admitted that these creatures were real, it might create
	in enough minds the assumption that they were real to enable them to walk through into our
	dimension willingly.
	Aha.
	Well, isn't it reasonable, based on what a lot of theoretical physicists, the best minds
	in our country have to say about other dimensions, isn't it reasonable, Whitley, to assume that
	if they are coming from another dimension, that the physics of that other dimension might
	make them every bit as alien to us as if they had come from 10,000 light years away?
	Thank you.
	Maybe more alien, maybe much more alien, because we don't know, they're beginning to speak in terms, Sir Martin Rees, recently, The astronomer Royal, who's a very cool guy, incidentally, and has been on dreamland and probably would love to be on coast, stated that brain worlds must be physically, they must be physical.
	In other words, that they must really physically exist.
	I'm paraphrasing him to the nth degree.
	I think this is what he said.
	If they are physically real, then it could be that there are laws of physics in those worlds that are very different from the laws of physics here, which might explain that these creatures bring with them their own physics and their own reality, and that's why they are so strange in the way they function here.
	I mean, I had them in my life for 11 years.
	The last book I really wrote about my personal experiences was nine or ten years ago, Breakthrough.
	And then I kind of quit doing that because, you know, there's no point in it.
	I couldn't prove it.
	And it also became so deeply personal and so profoundly strange that I didn't actually know how to do it.
	But the possibility That they were like, working, functioning with completely different laws of physics than I was, was really very present in my mind.
	Exactly, Whitley.
	In other words, if somebody had come from a thousand light years away, they would still be of this universe, likely with most of the same laws of physics applying to them, but somebody coming from, or something, Coming from another dimensional reality would bring with them physics that really would mystify us and would be very different than that which we experience in these limited dimensions we have.
	That's right.
	And maybe their dimensions are just as limited, but different.
	And maybe they are struggling to cross through into our dimension.
	I think that it might have been, again, Martin Reif's Who said on my program, maybe it was another physicist, I'm not sure, but one of them said a very interesting thing.
	He said the way we understand these brain worlds now, these membrane, they call them brain because it's a contraction of membrane, that there is a kind of membrane between these universes, this membrane, that it is infinitely thin, in other words it is virtually non-existent, but it
	would take, as we understand it, more energy than exists in the universe, in
	our whole universe, to cross it. And so if they figured out a way to cross it,
	that's awesome. With physics that we now understand.
	And we now understand.
	That's right.
	But perhaps they have come to some understanding of how to cross it briefly for some periods of time or maybe they're getting better at it all the time and maybe that's why we're experiencing more, I don't know.
	But I do, I wonder myself, Whitley, if, as you point out, the government would finally announce something, if it has anything to do with collective consciousness or the focusing of energy on a certain thought that would open that door, that might do the trick, huh?
	Well, I think that we, I would not be an advocate of that.
	I don't think that opening this door indiscriminately is the way to go.
	Oh, I'm with you there.
	What I'm trying to do is to entertain this thing, to enable people to chew on it in a state of safety.
	In other words, nothing I do, I would assume, is going to open that door.
	Otherwise, that wouldn't be something I would be doing.
	But what I do think is if we're going to ever understand this, What we need to do is what we're doing tonight, is dialogue about it.
	First of all, on a personal experiential level, I've had experiences, millions of other people have had experiences, and then later, as the scientific community becomes more and more comfortable with it, then bringing that dialogue and all of the information that these people have in their lives into science via There are rigorous methodologies of behavioral research that will enable us to see patterns of behaviors and patterns of activities described that will begin to be able to let us kind of forensically analyze what's being done to people on a large scale, so that step by step we understand more and more without ever tripping that wire.
	I'm not at all sure we really want to trip that wire.
	No, I don't think so.
	If there's a possibility of opening a door that we can't close, then we need to do this in such a way that we don't do that.
	And that is exactly what I'm about.
	On balance.
	Understand it without having it come at us out of a door we can't close.
	With everything that you know about the Greys, Whitley, would you err on the side of caution saying that they may not at all be our friends and have our best interests in heart, or do you think they're the warm fuzzies that a lot of people believe they are?
	I think they're very complicated.
	I think they're like us.
	Is mankind good or bad?
	It's a hard question to answer, Art, when you look at the human species and the human History, and what we do to each other every day, and what we do to animals and to our world.
	It's a very hard question to answer, but you look into the face of a little child, it's an extremely easy question to answer.
	So, in other words, we are a mixed bag, and they, in my personal experience, are a mixed bag too.
	And I think that if we are looking here at a civilization of some sort, Whether it is in another dimension, or it is from another world, or there's a sort of combination of these two things involved, it is very big and very complex, and we see different parts of it at different times.
	Hold it right there.
	We're at the bottom of the hour, so hold it right there, and we will continue.
	We've got, thankfully, Whitley Streber with us this night, and we are talking about the Grays.
	I'm Art Bell.
	Indeed, here I am.
	We have probably the world's expert on the Greys with us right now, Whitley Streber.
	When we get back in a moment, I'm going to ask him to, for those of you who are relatively new listeners, don't know much about the Greys, to encapsulate everything he does know about the Greys, what they actually look like, how big they really are, what their intentions are, that which he knows of their intentions, you know, that sort of thing.
	kind of a 101 on the graze when we return.
	All right, bearing in mind with that we have a lot of new listeners tonight we
	always do people out there on the highways and doing who knows what at
	this hour of whatever it is where they are they a lot of them don't know about
	the graze If you were to give somebody a 101 on Grays, you know, what they look like, what you know of them, their intent, all the rest of it, sort of a little 101, what would you say?
	Well, what I would say is this, that this image of the greys.
	It is a creature with big black eyes, a large head, a thin body, ranging from something that is very ephemeral and small and seems to float rather than walk, to creatures that walk and have a sort of a stride to them, kind of a dancing almost walk that are three and a half or four or even five feet tall, that's what they look like.
	What they feel like, well, to touch them, first of all, you can get a big allergic reaction from doing this.
	I've experienced that and seen it happen to others.
	The other, and there is a limited ability on their part to control that.
	The other thing is that I've had one of them once jumped on my back, and as thin and ephemeral as it appeared, its legs against my hips and its arms pinning my arms to my sides were like iron.
	It was like iron.
	It was like I couldn't get it off in any way or move my arms in any way, whatever.
	Do you think that that was all of a physical nature, Whitley?
	A true physical nature?
	Or do you think that in some way you were mentally disabled, as it were?
	You're deep into this.
	That's a good question.
	And the answer is, I don't know.
	It felt physical.
	It felt very physical.
	But whether or not that's entirely true, I don't know.
	I'll give you an example of why it may not be true.
	And this is typical.
	This just happened.
	It happened to a carpenter I knew.
	And I'm telling you now a specific story, folks, that is multiplied probably 100,000 times over the letters we got of The kind of things that the Grays are able to do.
	He had finished out a house up the road from us.
	This was before my close encounter experience, and he didn't tell me about this until afterwards.
	Anyway, he'd finished out this house, and he had still all of his tools in it, and he decided to stay in the house overnight because the locks weren't on the doors yet.
	He didn't want to leave all those expensive tools in this house.
	So, he slept on the floor in the living room of the house, and in the middle of the night, he was awakened by a noise, and he saw what he thought of as a little man standing across the living room from him.
	And he was, as he put it, scared brainless.
	I agree.
	I absolutely agree.
	I'm sure I would have been too.
	And he fumbled to turn on his flashlight.
	And he got the flashlight turned on, and he could see that it was like a big bug, as he put it, a big insect.
	And he tried to shine the flashlight on it, whereupon It completely transformed into a bird of paradise.
	A big, beautiful, one of those big tropical birds.
	Yeah.
	And at that point, he dropped the flashlight and knocked himself, nearly knocked himself up, trying to run out the front door, as I recall him telling me.
	Because he, apparently, the door opened in and he tried to push it out, etc.
	And the thing disappeared.
	Then, as I recall, he told me he went home, leaving his tools behind, and decided he'd pick them up the next morning anyway.
	Understandably.
	Oh yeah.
	That's incredible.
	Yeah, that's just one of many cases.
	I'll give you another case.
	A man and his wife had a very complex group experience that happened at our cabin.
	We had 17 people at the house at this time, and a grey had come in the window into one
	of the bedrooms and punched the lady who was sleeping in that bedroom, Raven Dana, in the
	shoulder.
	And she woke up and immediately had all of the things that happened to people.
	She thought it was a raccoon at first, then realized how could a raccoon get in through
	a closed screen window like that?
	Then she realized it was one of the greys, and she reached her hand out, and it reached
	its hand out and touched her hand.
	And she had a mental impression of it saying, what would you want me to do?
	And she said aloud, you could go down that hallway, because we had a low light camera on in the hallway, because the film crew was there.
	So it left the room.
	It went into the next room.
	The two women in that room went past through the camera, by the way.
	We never found a single image of it on the camera, frustratingly enough.
	on the film, on the video.
	Woke up the two women in the next room, then disappeared.
	The next thing that happened was the film, the head of the film crew and his wife were sleeping on a rollout couch in the living room, the convertible couch in the living room.
	He saw this big headed little man standing beside their bed.
	And reached to turn on the light, whereupon it turned from a big-headed little man into something with the head of a falcon, and then disappeared.
	Again, morphing.
	It sure does sound like something from another dimension, as opposed to another planet.
	Morphing like that, exactly.
	And then disappeared.
	Then he woke his wife up, and they talked about it for a while, not knowing that the people in the other bedrooms were all talking about what had happened to them.
	Raven Data wasn't talking to anybody because she was alone.
	The other two women were talking about what happened to them.
	The people in the basement had had an experience with a big ball of light that had come into the basement at the same time, and they were talking about that.
	Ann was sound asleep upstairs.
	Andrew and I were out in the woods, and dawn was just breaking, and so we came up to the house.
	At that point, we saw a translucent Hooded figure, go down the deck, across the backyard, go racing off through the woods, and this is important, moving between the trees, not through the tree trunks.
	And at that moment, the man and woman in the bed, in the convertible couch, leapt out of the bed because they thought it was on fire.
	They had experienced a terrific burst of heat, as whatever it was, the thing that had Disappeared, had still been there, but invisible.
	So in other words, everybody was experiencing or feeling something almost completely different, some sort of something that was different.
	Yeah.
	But related to their perceptions at that moment.
	In other words, this is not a group hallucination at all.
	The people involved were not in direct contact with each other at all.
	Then Braven Dana, the one who had touched it, And I had warned them, because of my own experiences, to be very careful not to touch them, because by that time I was under the care of an allergist who was being very helpful to me, and I was able to be touched by the grave, like being jumped on, without having an allergic reaction.
	But that was because he had done an elaborate allergic analysis of me and was treating me For the underlying allergies, and they were the very allergies that the grays identified that I needed to be treated for.
	If the histamine response to them wouldn't overwhelm me.
	The real gray goo.
	Listen, Gary in San Antonio, Texas, going back to the subject of carpenters for a moment, says, ask Whitley please, if in his interaction with the Greys, what they say on the matter of, is there a God?
	Did they create Jesus Christ and send him as a teacher?
	Somehow I don't think that's part of their thing.
	I have never had the impression... I've had the impression that my religious feelings and my closeness to Christ are my own business.
	I've never felt that they participated in that, and I never felt they were particularly against it, either.
	In other words, that just wasn't an issue, in my experience.
	I know that there have been rumors that They said in that Eisenhower briefing document that they had created Christ and all of this stuff, and I wouldn't put it past them.
	I mean, that's the sort of thing that people would get from them, but that never really arose in my experience with them at all.
	Not at all.
	It never affected my religious beliefs in any way.
	Well, what you just described, Whitley, everybody, you know, that house obviously being electrified with a lot going on, but everybody having different perceptions and different experiences.
	My God, that surely does sound like something that would come from another dimension with different laws of physics and all the rest of it, as opposed to coming from a different planet, but I don't know.
	This whole thing is so fascinating to me.
	And by the way, your book on the Greys is a gigantic success.
	I hear it's getting really, really rave reviews, and the people who have written to me privately are giving it rave reviews.
	Yeah, apparently it's a success.
	It's doing really very well.
	And I think that a lot of copies are being sold, and I'm very grateful for that.
	The publisher is happy about it.
	It's important, I think.
	The reason people are responding to it is this.
	First of all, there's a tremendous freedom for me in being able to write about things that I believe are true, but that I can't prove.
	I did that in Majestic, and Majestic was a big success, too, for that reason, because people can look at that and they can entertain these things that in nonfiction I could not write about, but also I can get across things like the way it feels to be a family who has this in the family, as the family and some of the main characters in this do.
	And that's important, and there are little points in the book Where people who have had the Close Encounter Experience are going to read these things, it's going to resonate in them, and it's going to bring parts of their memories up that they did not have access to before.
	Because I lived through that process for years, and I learned how to do it, and I've communicated that through this book.
	And there's also a lot about the possible government programs connected with this.
	I've worked hard on this, and the other thing that's changed is it used to be that no one dared tell their friends, you know, they'd buy a book like this, keep it in the bag, take it home, read it by themselves, and never tell a soul.
	That's it.
	People have forgotten about that, because everybody knows there's something to this now.
	Eighty percent or something of the population believes the government is holding back about the UFO things, which of course it is!
	And for good reason.
	I mean, I can tell you the reasons if you want to know.
	I do want to know.
	I do want to know.
	I want to know what you think they know and also why they're holding it back.
	OK, here's the reason they're holding it back.
	It's quite simple.
	Put the president at a press conference.
	And the president says, ladies and gentlemen, I have some good news, some extraordinary news, Robert, he would say.
	We have determined that UFOs are intelligently guided.
	And the first question of the press is going to be, what about the abductions?
	And he is going to have to either say, well, we don't believe that's true, which will last about two days, and then it's not going to be believed.
	Or he's going to have to tell the truth.
	And the truth is, we know they're penetrating into our lives, but we don't know why, we don't know what they're doing, and we have no way of controlling them at all.
	Now, I would submit no president will ever give that press conference, because it says that the fundamental promise of government, that government will protect the individual, cannot be met.
	In this case, they can't do it.
	And they're just never going to say that.
	Never.
	Well, I agree with you.
	That is their primary charge, and as you point out, they can't, or others believe, Whitley, that a deal has been struck with them, and that in return for certain technology or information, we can't know what really, these abductions are more or less allowed.
	Which do you believe?
	I don't think there's been that kind of contact, because I don't think the Greys think like that.
	I think that there's a lot of... I believe that it's possible that over the years, one of the things that has been done by the intelligence community is to spread rumors of contacts like that against the possibility that if If the greys do show up, people will believe the government has secret knowledge, and will continue to turn to the government for support, rather than just completely panicking.
	These rumors have worked in waves, in the sense that whenever there's a large number of sightings or a large number of abduction reports, Of substantial government secret knowledge coming out.
	In The Greys, I have a story about, one of the big sub-stories is about the struggle of people within the government who are in communication with A. Grey to make that communication work usefully for us.
	And I think that's an accurate depiction of what's actually going on, frankly.
	Alright, I recall in a previous program we did, and one frankly that I'm never going
	to ever forget, Whitley, you had kind of an emotional, almost an emotional breakdown right
	on the program, talking about an encounter that you had had with the Grays in which they
	took a sample from you.
	It was as if on that program that you were reliving the incident itself, as though you
	were feeling it, as though it were happening to you again.
	I mean, there was that much emotion.
	You recall?
	Yeah, I recall very well.
	And it is, the emotion is still there, because the experience was so intimate and so difficult for me.
	And it was one of many.
	I mean, I've had other experiences like that that I don't really talk about.
	Not because I'm keeping secrets.
	I'm not about keeping secrets.
	I tell everything I can.
	But it's just too difficult for me.
	I had, you know, it's hard.
	It was hard.
	It was all hard.
	And to wake up in a state of intense sexual excitement, which has been artificially induced in you, and to have that happen, helpless to do anything about it.
	And a man who has taken a vow that he respects enormously, and believes in those vows, just to the bottom of my heart, before God I took that vow.
	And that vow's Validity was denied me.
	It's not something one is going to ever forget.
	No, that's right.
	All right, hold it right there, Whitley.
	Whitley Strieber is my guest.
	We are discussing The Greys, which just happens to be the title of his new book.
	It really is getting rave reviews.
	If you want to read a book that will kind of curl your blood a little bit, The Greys is definitely the one.
	From Manila in the Philippines, Southeast Asia, I'm Art Bell.
	Good afternoon, everybody, from a land where they turn back time.
	I'll tell you something about what's going on right now.
	We've had a lot of typhoons and things like that lately here.
	But today, not today, sun is out, streaming through the window in the other room.
	It's a little past midnight on the West Coast, a little past 3 a.m.
	on the East Coast.
	But here, the sun is streaming through the window, and I just opened it for Yeti, and he's doing what cats do and basking In the midday sun here.
	My guest is Whitley Streber and you know there's something I was thinking about our best interests.
	Now we make an appointment and we go to the dentist, right?
	But if we were taken to the dentist, let's say against our will, and the dentist began to perform a root canal.
	God, I hate root canals.
	And we didn't know that it was in our best interest to have the root canal done and certainly it probably is in our best interest, right?
	We would view it as a horrible abduction and probably torture, wouldn't we?
	So in a moment, we'll talk about our best interests.
	Again recalling a very, very emotional show that I had with Whitley and one in which he
	admitted what amounted to an involuntary sexual experience that was meant to end up collecting
	semen for whatever reason.
	Whitley, I just sort of laid something out there.
	If you didn't know, if you hadn't made an appointment with a dentist and you just suddenly appeared in a dentist's chair and he started to do a root canal on you, You would not only think you were abducted, you would think you were being tortured as well.
	So when we talk about our best interests and whether or not they have them in mind, how do you feel about that now?
	Well, quite honestly, what I have to say is I don't know the answer to that question.
	But I think that what my work is about is finding out the answer.
	But doing it in a way that If this tripwire is out there somewhere and we could inadvertently open a door that we can't close, that that won't happen.
	We won't trigger any tripwires.
	And it could be that the government is in a position of knowing that and realizing that it has to be done in a sort of indirect way so that We will be able to exchange information about this among ourselves.
	We will be able to get scientific study of it.
	We will be able to do all of these things all without the final thing of the government saying this is real and that, in other words, we will be empowered on our side so we understand whether or not this is a visit to the dentist or a visit to hell.
	It's hard to separate the two at times.
	You know, a lot of what's been described, both by you and by others, with respect to the graze sounds very hellish, frankly.
	But again, you know, a dentist in the end has done a good thing for us.
	It's a root canal and we've been through hell, but we sure feel better afterwards.
	I guess that's really the root of the question is whether in the end all of this is being done to help us or not in our best interest.
	In their best interest, in other words, they're doing some sort of genetic thievery from us or manipulation of us.
	God, it's a question I want answered so much.
	It's obvious to me after listening to you and others that it is going on.
	We just want to know what it is.
	Well, of course we do.
	And the other possibility is this.
	You always have to try to turn it around and look at what would we do under the circumstances.
	And one of the things that we would definitely be doing if we went to another world would be to be looking into their genetic structure.
	And that would be a quite complicated and involved process because The human genome is extremely complicated, and in order to really examine it thoroughly in all of its permutations, and if you're interested in the speed with which the species is evolving, for example, you can't do that by examining just three or four people.
	You need to get a whole cross-spectrum of the species.
	You need to understand The way the human genome is deteriorating and changing, in other words, the kind of genetic diseases and so forth we have, and how those might have evolved over time, you need a whole other spectrum of the population.
	So, the result is that you'd be at that for a long time.
	And if you wanted to do it in secret, and there is a good side to this.
	With a minimal amount of bruising to the culture and to the individuals involved, you would definitely do something to put them to sleep while you did your work.
	You would make every effort to prevent them from realizing what had happened, so that their culture would remain intact.
	You know, there was an interesting article Written a long time ago now, my goodness, in 1977 in Science Magazine by D.B.H.
	Kuiper and Michael Morris, two physicists, the Kuiper who discovered the Kuiper Belt, a very famous guy actually, speculating just very briefly on what would happen if aliens came here, and they concluded that they would be very secretive.
	They would not show themselves.
	And the reason they came up with was an interesting one.
	They said that the only thing they could possibly want from us, if they were so technologically advanced, that they could cross space.
	This was before the idea of interdimensional travel, or there being other coherent, structured universes, in addition to our own in the same space, was present in physics.
	So they were assuming definitely from another planet.
	If you came, the one thing you would want from us, from the people on this planet, would be to know how they were doing things differently.
	In other words, innovation.
	And in order to understand that, you would have to keep yourself very well hidden.
	Very well hidden.
	I can buy all of that, Whitley.
	Of course you would keep yourself well hidden.
	It's just that, you know, this is some kind of puzzle, and I'm trying to figure out if it's in our best interest, whether they have our best interest in mind, or whether they're just trying to learn about us, or whether they're manipulating us.
	And boy has that a big and important question.
	I think, Art, that it's the most important question in the world.
	And addressing this question in a useful way is what my whole life is about, because when I realized that they were real, even though they were sort of on the cultural periphery, and I was right at the center of things with books like War Day and Nature's End, I was really getting into this world, politically and culturally.
	I would be a factor in the mainstream right now if it hadn't been for this, but at the same time, I was coming into contact with these remarkable beings with all kinds of abilities and effects on my life and on the lives of others that were completely unexpected to me, and I was seeing that they were making an effort to hide, and I thought to myself, this is the most important thing in the world.
	This transcends everything.
	There are two things.
	One, the ability of this species to survive over time, and that means environmental issues.
	And two, these people, and what they are doing here, and why.
	And that, therefore, I've decided I will devote my life to these two things, because this is the most important stuff I know.
	And I have done that, and I am working, and this book is, I think, I'm excited by the response to it, because I think that means it's working, it's doing what it's intended to do.
	Which is to help people remember and to focus their memories so that they begin to understand what, in their terms, what happened to them actually was and what it meant.
	And for people who haven't had the experience, to get a taste of what it's like.
	With the current state of our environment, which is really pathetic, and countries like Iran and North Korea clamoring to get their hands on a nuclear weapon, and probably well on the way toward it, if not already possessing it, something awful is bound to happen.
	A lot of people wonder, and I wonder, if something awful does happen, would there be an intervention or Could there be an intervention?
	Would they step in to stop self-destruction?
	Well, I doubt if they would step in to stop like a war, but if the planetary environment begins to fall apart on us in a terminal way, I would not be surprised to see them come out into the open because if it's in their interest that we continue to live and It may be, then, that that overbalances the need for secrecy, and they therefore come out into the open.
	I think under those circumstances, they probably wouldn't be very pleasant.
	I think that they would be pretty annoyed about the whole thing, and we could expect them to be rather arbitrary about what they did to save the environment, because they would have lost something.
	In revealing themselves, they would have redirected our culture toward them because we would never, we would, from then on, we would be focused on them, and they would know that, and therefore this innovation that they might have been looking for would be at an end.
	So they would be looking to us for other things, and let's hope that those would be things that we would want them to, that it would be useful to us to give them.
	Well, just changing the subject a little bit for a second, as you look around at the state of our world right now, environmentally, particularly environmentally, I wonder how close you think we are to the beginning of the terminal stage?
	Oh, we're in a terminal stage already, York.
	We've been in one for a couple of years, and I'll tell you why.
	A couple of years ago, it was discovered that the great The engine of the Gulf Stream, of the North Atlantic Oscillation, of that current where cold water goes down from the surface in the Northern Ocean and underneath, and the circulation keeps the world's ocean currents going, was failing.
	There had been 12 great columns of water there, and now there were only two.
	When those stop, then over a period of months or years, the whole flow of the Gulf Stream will stop too, radically destabilizing the climate.
	And in addition to that, there's another problem that's come up, and that is that the Caribbean has apparently grown too warm to sustain the monsoon that goes over the Amazon every year.
	And the Amazon has now been dry for three years.
	Yes, I'm aware of that.
	Terrible drought in the Amazon, and incidentally, one of the things that we need to do, the Coast community needs to do, and the UnknownCountry.com community needs to do, is we need to collectively do our thing in order to try to get that monsoon moving again.
	Because if it doesn't, and that forest dies, Then life on this planet is going to change, and there will be fewer human beings as a result, in significant quantities over time.
	We will see a dieback of this species because of the drastic climate changes that this will cause.
	The Amazon is the heart of the environment.
	If it has a heart attack, we're going to suffer serious, serious problems.
	Well, it certainly feels now as though, as you point out, we're at some beginning stage of the terminal point in all of this, and there's a kind of a tipping, and it's already, I can feel it's already beginning, and it just scares the hell out of me, Woodley.
	It just really does scare me.
	Well, especially because we're distracted by all these crazy wars that don't really seem to make much sense, but wars really never do.
	We're not thinking about this problem, and the horrible irony is, Art, as you and I both know from the work we did, it's not even a difficult problem to solve.
	The idea that it's an insoluble problem we can't do anything about it is a complete illusion.
	It's a fabrication.
	So sad.
	Well, I don't know, Woodley.
	This may be one area, I think we've talked about this before, where you and I disagree.
	I'm more of a pessimist than you are, but nevertheless, if you really think it's soluble, with any means that we know and understand now, just lay it out for me, because I really would like to understand how this could be turned around.
	Well, sure.
	If you go on my website, And you click on the quick watch, and you go down to the bottom of the page that explains the... I think it probably needs to be updated, that page.
	I think it's still in 2005, early 2006.
	But down at the bottom, there is an evolution of something called the Canadian Prime Minister's Challenge, which is a method of doing simple things around the home.
	That will radically and dramatically reduce your carbon dioxide emissions.
	And if people did just a few of these things around their homes in large numbers, this would be over.
	The problem would end.
	If we had had the leadership, the presidential leadership, five years ago or eight years ago, To do this, if Clinton or Bush, and remember, Clinton was indifferent about this.
	As Bush is, the only difference was that he acknowledged that it was real, and Clinton and Bush pretend it's not.
	That's the only difference.
	Neither of them did anything much.
	But if you had a president who was willing to say, hey folks, let's change a few light bulbs, let's make a program to get more efficient refrigerators, Let's raise the temperature a little bit in the summer and lower it a little bit in the winter.
	You would be saving millions upon millions of tons of carbon dioxide emissions every year.
	And if they did that over the whole Western world, it would make a significant difference.
	Perhaps it would, but I'll tell you what later.
	Countries like India and China are getting well organized enough to where they could do it too.
	Well, the Philippines for that matter.
	I mean, you have a system there where if you take your car out on Mondays, you're going to get fined.
	That's right.
	And it used to be that no one cared in the Philippines.
	But the country's getting, it's advancing, it's becoming more organized, and as it does, They can become more responsive to these environmental needs?
	There's one other aspect.
	The whole eastern part of the world, the world part that I live in right now, is beginning to go industrially nuts.
	In other words, the people here want everything that we have in the United States.
	The people in China want everything.
	You know, two cars in the garage, the whole business.
	And by God, they're going to have it.
	And they're well on the way toward having it, and when they get it, I just don't know that the world, I'm a pessimist, I don't think the world can sustain the kind of environmental hit it's going to take when this part of the world that I'm in right now begins to become as industrialized as we were.
	No, it can't.
	And therefore, it isn't going to be like that.
	Something else will happen.
	Because I'll tell you this, this species, there's a death wish among human beings, and it's expressed whenever you hear someone saying global warming isn't real, or saying that I look forward to the end of the world because I believe in the rapture and I'm going to go rapture the planets.
	All of that, that's the death wish speaking.
	When you hear a Muslim fundamentalist saying that he's eager to Eager for the end of the world so that Imam will come up out of the well that he's supposed to have fallen into.
	All of those things, that's the death wish speaking.
	But the death wish is tiny compared to the life force.
	Because the life force has to do with people falling in love with each other, with children being born, with all of that urgency that you just talked about, to have a better life.
	We're not going to go, the people who want a better life are not going to go all the way, I don't think, all the way down the road to destruction in order to get it.
	There will come a point when they will realize that if they are going to have a better life, they're going to have to acknowledge the limitations that the environment puts on them.
	And you know what?
	They'll figure out how to respect the planet's needs Hold it there.
	We're at the bottom of the hour.
	You're certainly an optimist.
	I wish I agreed with you, but if you saw the drive with which people here in Southeast Asia and Asia in general are moving toward the kind of industrialization that the U.S.
	had, it would scare the hell out of you.
	From Manila, I'm Art Bell.
	It is indeed from Manila in the Philippines where the sun shines down and warms the yellow cat.
	I'm Art Bell.
	My guest, a very dear friend, Whitley Streber, is talking about the grays.
	And we're talking, of course, also about the environment a little bit.
	And I'm not so sure that the two are not intricately connected.
	In a moment, we'll continue.
	Whitley said something earlier in the show that I want to get back on right now.
	He said, there's some evidence that the greys are not, repeat, not light years ahead of us.
	Now, that's very interesting, because obviously if they were light years ahead of us, they would have a technology that would, A, solve our global warming problem, and B, provide us with enough energy Well, one thing is very clear.
	They either can't or don't intend or won't solve our problems for us.
	That is quite clear.
	do that right now. So Whitley, what makes you think they are not light years ahead of us?
	Well, one thing is very clear. They either can't or don't intend or won't solve our problems for us.
	So that is quite clear. Now, with regard to their not being that far ahead of us,
	one of the problems with technology gaps is that they look larger than they actually are.
	and And the classic example, of course, is the Aztecs, assuming that the Spaniards were gods, because they'd never seen horses before.
	They didn't have the wheel.
	And they happened to arrive at the same time that Quetzalcoatl was expected to return.
	And so there was a And they had cannons and could kill people from a distance.
	So the whole culture was essentially frozen by what were actually technologies that were only slightly in advance of what the Essex themselves had.
	They just looked awesome.
	And if you go back to your own life, say in 1975, What would a laptop, a computer, have been to you then?
	Magic!
	Or the Internet!
	Magic!
	Magic!
	But it goes even deeper than that.
	If you look at our own technological advances, when I first wrote Communion, I was just excoriated and laughed at, because And the main reason was, they were saying, everyone with a scientist's role, saying, outer space is so vast, no one could get here, it's ridiculous.
	But now, they're saying not only could they get here, there's a whole lot of different ways they could do it.
	They could be from a brain world, they could be from another dimension, a parallel universe, And we are also realizing that there are ways of crossing interstellar space that are outside of space-time.
	They could even, we haven't discussed this yet tonight, be time travelers.
	And all of these things are now possible.
	In other words, they could be coming at us from different directions, conceivably even more than one different direction, which is extraordinary.
	Now, look at just one technology.
	They have the ability to use invisibility awesomely.
	They are really very capable of using invisibility.
	But let's go back now to that night when the little being, he's beside the filmmaker, his head turns into the head of a falcon, then he disappears.
	Then he leaves.
	Andrew and I see him moving down the deck, translucent, in other words, partly visible.
	The people inside have experienced a burst of heat.
	The reason is that he has been doing something to bend light.
	That's why he disappeared.
	But whatever he was doing, Caused heat, because it takes energy to bend light.
	And he held that heat technologically in his immediate proximity, so that they would not feel it and be aware of his presence.
	Then, when he realized we were coming closer, and he was caught between them and us, and with me especially being so sensitized to them, I might have very well have detected his presence in one way or another in the room.
	He decided to take off.
	He then released part of his invisibility, therefore a burst of heat.
	And when we saw him, he was still partly invisible and partly visible.
	In other words, translucent.
	What we're looking at there, Art, is the function of technology.
	We are in the process right now of understanding invisibility.
	We will be building and creating devices that enable invisibility very soon, but with the difference that our solution is much more elegant than that and will not require the presence of something that bends light and that therefore has to do with gravity.
	It works differently.
	One of the things that the visitors do have is the ability to manipulate gravity.
	This is something we're far away from.
	And it's another thing that suggests to me that they may be from another reality, as well as maybe another planet.
	Maybe the two things are the same.
	I don't know.
	Because the manipulation of gravity seems right now very far from possible to us.
	But the visitors do it easily.
	When they used to arrive at the cabin, you would hear them in a little Chip come across the right across the roof and you you would hear things like it sounded like ball bearings clicking in it going click click click and it would it would drop down into the little yard in front of the house you wouldn't be able to see it but you knew it was there because you had just heard it arrive and you had to be I learned to be very insistent with myself and the more determined I became
	to not let go of those things.
	The more I noticed little things, little giveaways of the visitors as they moved around in the yard, you could hear them, for example, even though they were invisibly still here.
	Our government, obviously, if they are in communication with visitors, they're not going to tell us about it.
	You know, you elegantly pointed that out earlier.
	They really can't.
	But what about somebody like yourself?
	I mean, you have had an uncommon amount of interaction with them.
	Have you attempted communications, or if you have not, do you want to attempt communications?
	Do you want to be the messenger?
	Do you want to be the person to describe to us what their motives are?
	Do you want to talk to them?
	I'm interested in empowering us.
	My focus is on us.
	I'm interested in human beings becoming an effective part of the relationship.
	Right now we are passive.
	Non-functional in the relationship.
	They do what they want to us.
	Yeah, exactly.
	I want that to change.
	I want us to be active partners in the relationship.
	Whatever their motives may or may not be doesn't even interest me that much.
	What I'm interested in is, what can we get out of this?
	We are obviously not that far behind them technologically.
	We're already close to invisibility.
	There are scientists who are working on these incredible drives That are going to enable us to leap across space, apparently.
	There's all kinds of stuff like that going on at every level, technologically, that are catching up with the visitors quite quickly.
	I want us to be empowered in this.
	I'm interested in our side of the relationship.
	I'm interested in making it active.
	And to do that, you have to make it knowledgeable.
	The foundation of knowledge is going to come from the people who had the experience, the people who know them, and the people who are interested.
	And I hope that's a large number of people.
	That's why I'm out here.
	Well, if we cannot do it through our government, and this may be one thing we cannot do through our government, then it's got to be through people like yourself and through others out there.
	So, how do you advise people?
	I mean, you know, you're not the only one in contact with these visitors.
	There are so many others in contact.
	How do you advise contactees now?
	Well, what I think is that people should do their best to tell their story as best they can.
	And the result of this is going to be that you get all kinds of remarkable stories.
	The letter mail that we got in the initial years after Communion came out revealed an array of contact experiences that was so far beyond anything you could even begin to imagine that it was awesome.
	And the other thing that was awesome Was the extraordinary human ability to cope with this.
	There were, I mean, people were coping with things happening to them and their families very, very well.
	Because the other thing that you learn when you're dealing with the visitors is that we are highly intelligent.
	We are not stupid.
	We're not the sort of second rate.
	We just are less informed.
	We have less knowledge.
	But we are very smart, and they respect that, believe me, more than we do.
	And they are quite careful.
	They were careful, very careful with me.
	When I began to home in on their observing the things that they did with gravity, they began to hide that from me.
	Because they thought that I might conceivably be able to describe this accurately enough, in my opinion, they thought this, to scientists with whom I am in contact, that they would be able to make leaps, because I don't think they are ready for us to be on an equal footing with them when it comes to things like that.
	They want to be in control of the relationship.
	I want to at least be in control of our side of it.
	Well, one of the things I've noticed and one of the things that makes it very, very difficult for all of us to correlate this information is that the contactees, Whitley, seem to all have different perceptions, so many different descriptions of the visitors, so many different descriptions.
	For example, somebody who is very religious will come and come on the line and tell me about an experience they had and they will automatically, you know, you'll get a line like, Well, I saw this creature, or this being, and I prayed to God in the name of Jesus.
	I said, let it be gone, and it was gone.
	Now, that story may not be one bit different than Whitley's encounter with a gray that ended up in some other way.
	I'm saying that people's perceptions, beliefs, and faith guide what they report.
	Yes.
	And this is what we have to address this with.
	This is what our culture and our experience of life has given us, and it is the way we handle this, the way we come to understand how we address it that counts, because we cannot say that the person, for example, a man of faith who thought they were demons and prayed them away, is wrong.
	No, we cannot say that.
	That's right, but it confuses everything.
	But I can find you other people.
	I can find you other people who believe the Grazer Angels, who are also, I believe, fundamentalist Christians.
	So, you know, you can get any side of any of those coins.
	The point being this, that empowering us in this means that we acknowledge that this is real.
	And we do this as a culture, without the government having to say, yes, it is real, and possibly tripping that wire we talked about earlier.
	We do everything except that, so that we get to the point where there is enough scientific study, and even if we can't get it to the point where there can be funds granted within the foundational community, because The National Science Foundation has stated that UFO research is not a fit subject for grant money.
	And if they change that position, then that is the government acknowledging that this is real.
	So they can't change that position.
	So what we need is for physicists and other scientists to be thinking about this.
	To be thinking about it.
	To be speculating about it.
	Writing about it, writing papers about it, in the context of what we understand now, and gradually focusing on it more and more clearly.
	And we need the average individual who is having these experiences to be able to come out in public more and more openly without fear, and fortunately that's ending.
	Days when some CNN reporter could laugh this off the face of the earth are going, because Nowadays, when you see that on TV, and some idiot is snickering about it on the local TV, people get mad, and they make themselves heard.
	Yeah, look at what's changed.
	You and I wrote Global Superstorm, Whitley, and oh, they laughed, they snickered, but in the last years, My goodness, that certainly has changed, and now it's just about a consensus in the entire scientific community now that what we wrote about is well underway.
	So, yeah, all of that's changing.
	I mean, look, we have physicists now, theoretical physicists like Dr. Kaku.
	who talk about 11 or more dimensions. So, the scientists may not know it, but they're moving in that
	direction anyway, Whitley. I mean, they cannot talk about 11
	dimensions where the laws of physics may be entirely different than ours,
	without finally getting to the possibility that those dimensions might
	be inhabited by creatures that are not locked into the same laws of physics that we all have to
	live by.
	Right. Very true. Very true.
	So, they are moving in that direction. The letter mail I get
	from people who have experiences is much more developed and subtle
	and dimensionalized than it was earlier on.
	on.
	Earlier on, it was extremely complex and very surprising and very amazing.
	But now, people aren't simply reporting these extraordinary things, they have insight into what's happening to them.
	And that's a big, big step.
	A big step.
	We're going toward a point where we are going to be in control, at least to a degree, of our side of this relationship.
	And hopefully that will bring it into more focus, because right now the visitors seem very anarchic to me, in a sense that there are guys out there that are real creeps, And there are others that seem pretty more mature, let me put it that way.
	Some are like bandits, they'll do anything, they rape people, they don't care about us, they don't recognize us as anything except animals.
	Others are extremely sensitive morally and sensitive to the human soul, and I'm just talking now about the greys.
	We haven't even begun to talk about the blondes, and that's a whole other ball of wax that I address as best I can in the book too, based on what I had extensive communications with a blonde who is portrayed as a character in the story, in fact.
	All right, Whitley.
	Well, we're getting to the point where we're pretty close to taking phone calls and inevitably you're going to hear from contactees and people have had experiences with the Grays and maybe it'll be an opportunity for you to sort of express to people who have this contact what you think it is they ought to do.
	I mean, do you just lay back and let it happen because you have no choice and do observation?
	Do you attempt to communicate?
	If you have one of these experiences, what is the best thing you can do?
	Well, I certainly can talk about that, and there's a lot of different things you can do, depending on how well you remember it, and whether or not you had it alone, or with a member of the family, and the degree to which you are having it.
	Does it happen to you once?
	Do you remember only one time, or does it happen to you a lot?
	Does it happen to your kids?
	Does it happen across generations?
	There's a whole lot of stuff you can do, and including, if you get deeply into it, it becomes possible to communicate.
	I mean, it is definitely possible to communicate.
	Another thing that I tried to write about in this was, one of the reasons I made it into fiction was that communication is so hard to describe.
	It's like riding a bicycle.
	It's easy to do, but hard to tell how you do it.
	All right, buddy, we got to hold it right there.
	I'm Art Bell from Manila with Whitley Strieber.
	We'll be right back.
	Coming to you from a land where it's a little after 4 o'clock in the afternoon, I stepped into the next room and there was Yeti lying in the Philippine sunshine on a little rug.
	And I thought, boy, there's something I ought to do.
	So I snapped a photograph of him very quickly.
	And just put it up on the website.
	So there's Yeti lying in the Manila sunshine as it's dark across all the states.
	Good evening, everybody.
	Good morning.
	Whitley Streber is my guest.
	We're talking about, and we've had a pretty deep discussion about the visitors.
	we're about to open the phone lines so if you have questions now would be the
	moments I have obviously dominated a lot of Whitley's times
	So, Whitley, if you're ready, there's about a zillion people who would like to speak with you on the lines awaiting.
	Well, I'm ready.
	Okay, then.
	Here they come.
	Wild Card Line, you are on the air with Whitley Streber.
	Hello.
	Hi, Art and Whitley.
	My name is George.
	I'm from Ohio.
	And I've been an abductee all my life.
	It happened to me first when I was five years old in 1951.
	Again, when I was 21 years old in 1967 after I'd just returned from Vietnam and was at a duty station in California, that experience I remember totally and did get help with regression on the examination part.
	I've got to say that I was scared to death when I realized where I was and this person stepped into the light and I saw him.
	I couldn't talk, but I thought, oh my God, I'm going to die.
	And immediately this being in my head said, you're not going to die.
	You're going to be just fine.
	We're going to do a few things and we're going to put you back where we found you.
	And my fear was completely gone.
	It was like it was old home week.
	But what I wanted to stress was I had a very spiritual experience during this abduction.
	I do have some knowledge of the subject since I'm involved, and I'm here to help if you need it, and I can email you.
	Well, sure, you can simply email me.
	You can email me quickly at unknowncountry.com.
	Now, let me ask you... No, he's gone.
	He's gone.
	What he said was, he said he had a spiritual experience.
	So again, it's kind of like... Well, I know exactly what he was talking about.
	Because many people, when they are in a close encounter situation, if their fear, they overcome their fear, as he did, he reports having done, then it changes, the whole experience changes, including the way the Greys act.
	It all changes.
	I've had that, to an extent, I've had that experience.
	The very same thing, Whitley, is reported with people who have had out-of-body experiences.
	The ones who have close to out-of-body experiences have a tremendous amount of fear.
	They're frozen, they're scared to death.
	If they somehow can get past that initial frozen fear, they seem to have a good experience.
	I've never managed to make it past, well, except for us.
	I've had one really Cool out-of-the-body experience that got me to go to, I went to one of Bob Monroe's gateway weekends at his foundation at that time, right after this experience, because it was a perfect, a perfect split.
	And I moved out into the room.
	I was still in this level of reality.
	I was completely separate from my body.
	I could see myself and my wife there in the bed.
	And I moved out through the wall and the window into the front yard.
	Oh, it was magnificent.
	Just marvelous.
	Yeah, but again, you got past the fear.
	And that seems to be the key with any of these sorts of experiences, is to get past the fear.
	And boy, if you're confronted with a gray or an alien, I just don't know how you do that, but I guess he did.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Whitley Streber.
	Hi.
	Hi there, and Whitley, I'm so glad to be talking with you.
	I have wanted to talk with you since 1982.
	I am blind and I am a UFO abductee whom has been consciously aware of my experiences with a variety of beings since 1976.
	Wow!
	Yes, and I have been given permission I have been waiting for this, to tell you this, since I first learned of you.
	Up until just a few months ago, any time that I would record audio tapes, or put together print presentations, either various ones would interfere with them getting to you, or they would induce fear within sighted people, and they would mess with the material.
	All of that interference has now been rescinded.
	And I am going to be allowed to share materials with you that have been there for you for so many years.
	Well, what can you share with us now?
	I'd be glad to.
	Very much a mixed blessing, oh boy, has it ever, from everything from saving my life against me being struck by lightning, which happened just last Friday, to me meeting my soulmate, Then you go to the other extreme where these negative ones try to trick me to be involved with this woman who is a very negative shaman and who puts false thoughts in people's heads via remote influencing.
	So I could run the gamut, shall we say, from one extreme to the other.
	Okay.
	Well, Conor, what makes you certain that all of this is some sort of external influence and that it's just not your life sort of rolling along with the good and the bad?
	Right.
	Well, first of all, let me explain to you something.
	I've gone through the missing time and ended up in places where it's two hours later and I'm dropped off in a completely different area.
	I am a hypnotist for over 36 years.
	One time they took me up in a craft where they adapted an exercise that hypnotists know where they put the hands on the back and they take a person through a circular motion.
	They adapted the beams so that I and a friend went up in a craft.
	Another time I was with this sighted girlfriend and we both woke up and found a large puncture wound on our foreheads with a big knot and She looked at it and looked at me and looked at her and said, Dan, we both felt them.
	They had tried to induce partial amnesia when they brought us back.
	I've had markings on my body.
	Just lots of different things.
	I'm curious, Whitley, how in the world, when you hear stories like this, do you discern, no disrespect to the last caller, but how do you discern between people telling stories and imaginations and the real thing?
	I suppose since you've been there and done that, you probably can discern, can't you?
	Well, I can, to be honest with you, and it's true that people who really are in the experience generally always can.
	But at the same time, it's not appropriate for me to say, well, to pass judgment on people, because maybe I'd be wrong.
	I mean, you know, I don't know.
	I mean, I think I can.
	I wouldn't presume to do that, because the dialoguing What's for the Rockies?
	You're on the air with Whitley Streber.
	to do with letting all of that stuff come out and over time what is real will
	gradually be what is left over time just the same way as panning for gold if you
	keep panning eventually what you call you've got left in your pan is the gold
	yeah that's right all right what's for the Rockies you're on the air with
	Whitley Strieber hello hey Willie This is Jake.
	I'm calling from Boulder, Colorado.
	It's really awesome to talk to you guys.
	I don't know much about your book.
	I haven't read it, but I had a question.
	Have you come throughout your studies and writing the involvement with the graves and mind control?
	Because I've had many experiences where, and like you said, it comes with articulating and getting out what really happened, but Have you found a lot of people that were involved with mind control and the Greys and other entities?
	Well, it's a huge subject.
	A huge subject.
	And it's a big subject in my life.
	And the reason that's true is that in May of 1993, I had an object put in my left ear.
	I was awake when it happened.
	I saw the people who did it.
	There may have been a And a gray there.
	But there were certainly two human beings there happened on a May night.
	I woke up.
	And as I awoke, I heard a male voice say in the backyard, the windows were all open.
	It was a warm night.
	In the backyard say, condition read.
	I then saw a man and woman standing in the doorway, the foot of the bed.
	They came quickly across the room.
	I then could not see anymore.
	I felt myself being turned on my right side and pressure being applied against my left ear, waves of pressure, and a female voice saying what's, I think, I don't really remember what they were, but they're sort of comforting things to me, like the effect that this was going to be a wonderful blessing and that I shouldn't be afraid and things like that.
	Well, for the sake of the audience, I remember having Dr. Liron and describing a surgeon attempting to remove that from your ear, and the surgeon said, the damn thing moved.
	I'll never forget that, Woodley.
	Right.
	The surgeon was on with you.
	That's right.
	And he described, and the video is up in the subscriber section of my website to this day, where he actually sees the object move out when he touches it with his scalpel.
	But let's get back to the issue of mind control.
	Does this mean I'm under mind control?
	This was my question immediately.
	And if so, if I thought that was true, I think I might even consider killing myself.
	But personally, I do not believe that it is true, because I am working too hard on behalf of A level of freedom and independence based on knowledge about this for it to be any kind of bad mind control.
	Well, I hope that's right.
	I hope I'm right.
	That's all I can say.
	I hope I'm right.
	Now, whether these implants involve mind control or if mind control could be involved in this, mind control is a matter of influencing the way a person thinks from the outside by introducing material that they believe to be their own thoughts.
	That's what mind control is.
	That's right.
	So how would you know?
	How would you know, Whitley, if it was happening?
	Well, I think you would know by what you did.
	By what you did.
	And what I'm doing is trying to really empower the human species to perform Our side of this relationship in a functional manner.
	And I don't think that there's anything wrong with that.
	I don't think it's a bad thing to be doing.
	No, I don't either.
	But the question is whether it's your original thought.
	I don't think if I said... I don't think I can answer that.
	And if I said I could, maybe I would be under my control.
	First time caller line, you're on the air with Whitley Streber.
	Hello.
	Hi, this is Dan from Oshkosh, Wisconsin.
	Yes, question for Whitley here.
	I have, I've got people like this in my own family that are good people, but they're relatively, I'll just say backwards and ignorant.
	They don't know anything about the subjects you've been discussing tonight or about the condition of the world.
	And they make up a sizable percentage of the world population.
	And they have power.
	And in my opinion, they're not evil.
	They don't want to hold things back.
	They don't want to harm the world, but they do.
	He makes a very, very good point, Whitley.
	There are just a lot of people out there who are just blind to all of this, including the environmental catastrophe that's hanging over our heads and getting closer every day, and the visitors and all the rest of it.
	They're not actively debunkers.
	They're not evil people.
	They just don't know.
	The weight of that is what we have to bear.
	If those of us who are on the active side of this particular human triad, those of us who are trying to do something, are strong enough, we will succeed.
	And if we're not, Their inertia will bring the whole species down.
	There's no question about that.
	That's really the crossroads we're at right now.
	And you're more of an optimist than I am.
	First time caller line, you're on the air with Whitley Streber.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	Are you talking to me?
	I am.
	We sure are.
	Hi, Whitley.
	This is Jody from Washington State.
	Yes, I want to talk about the blues.
	They're aliens.
	They're smaller than the grays.
	Yes.
	I've had experience with both of them.
	First, I'll just tell you about the grays.
	I think they're very invasive.
	My girlfriend, I was trying to help her and the gray came right out from behind her and my girlfriend was in a lot of pain and it put an implant on her left ovary.
	It was a big substance.
	She went to the doctor and had it removed, and it was a big mass.
	And they didn't even know how to describe it.
	And there was another woman that I worked with, and it was terrifying.
	The gray came out of her, and it was a group of women with me, and they all saw it.
	And it kept saying to me, well, you must read your stuff in books.
	That's how you get your knowledge.
	And I was looking back at them, and I said, no, you don't have the right to be in her body.
	Get out.
	And I was really freaked out, but they're very invasive.
	They're not nice.
	Now, and I was in Georgia when this happened, and I was living on a wildlife refuge.
	And now the blues, when they came, I was living on the wildlife refuge too, and they were smaller, but they were nice.
	And they kind of protected me, I would believe, from the greys, because I was pretty scared.
	And they came, and they're smaller, and they come like in a big white orb light, like a bright flashlight, and when they came, they came at the edge of the bed, and they raised me up, and then they put these tablets of information, like little codes, almost like the computer-looking kind of alphabet, weird codes, and they put them into my solar plex, and ever since then, I'm able to time travel to different dimensions.
	I'm able to photograph.
	I'm able to solve crimes.
	I'm very psychic.
	And so I truly trust the blues.
	But the greys haven't bothered me or come near me or been around my friends or anything.
	And I'm not the only one that the greys were very invasive with.
	You know what I'm trying to say to you?
	I mean, I'm just not the only person.
	Well, what she's talking about is something I hear a lot of, of this physical invasion business.
	It is not something that has really happened to me, and this has always been outside of my body, but a lot of people report this sense of physical invasion.
	I, however, have seen the Blues once or twice.
	The first time, they were with the Grays on my first Close Encounter Experience, and they seem to be working for them.
	Also, I have numerous letters, not emails, but before email letters, about the Blues and about their presence, and they do seem to be a somewhat more benign presence than the greatest, it's true.
	But at the same time, this business of them working together is repeated too from
	time to time. You do see that as well.
	So it's a very mixed bag. I thought that the colors, what the color talked about was
	fascinating and you know there's obviously so much about this experience we still have.
	It is fascinating.
	All right, Whitley, hold tight.
	We're here at the bottom of the hour, but you know, so many different perceptions, so many that have had this experience, but my God, so many different perceptions about what these creatures are, what these creatures want, what they did.
	Whether it was religious or secular, I mean, just so completely different that if you didn't know better, it sounds crackpot-ish, doesn't it?
	I'm Art Bell.
	Hello all.
	I use the term, it sounds kind of crackpot-ish, doesn't it?
	And I meant that in no derogatory sense at all, but if you listen to these people that have had these experiences, these experiencers, if you will, the people who have encountered the visitors, their perceptions are so different, their faith is so different, the way they Tell their stories is so different and the way they perceive what happened to them is so different that frankly it does sound a little crazy when you listen to these various stories.
	It's hard to separate it and it's damn easy to sit back and sort of listen to a program like this and go, well, what a bunch of crackpots.
	This is something that's really happening.
	We are being visited, folks.
	And the fact that you're hearing different perceptions of those visitations doesn't mean it's crazy.
	It is happening.
	Whitney Strieber who knows a lot about it back in a moment.
	Once again, Whitney Strieber.
	Whitley, I hope you're following what I'm saying.
	Somebody tuning into the middle of this program, listening to these descriptions, I'm sure probably half of them are sitting back, and I know not all of them, because I'm getting a lot of very sincere responses here, but as people listen to these descriptions, because of all these different perceptions and face and ideas and way they greet The visitors, and their understanding of what just happened to them, it just, there's no thread, or there's very few threads, Whitley, that go through this that make sense to somebody listening to it.
	What's happening is this.
	They are trying to describe, in a language that was not designed to describe an experience, that they have very little actual information about what it really is.
	The only thing you can say that's clear from what we're hearing is that people have had something surpassingly strange happen to them.
	So strange that maybe it is beyond the imagination of the average person to come up with a description like this.
	But whether or not what is being said and what really, factually happened, instant by instant, is the same thing, is a whole different kettle of fish.
	This is one of the core reasons that I wrote The Graze as fiction, so that I could help people who are having the experiences to explore what was for me a long, years-long process of clarifying my understanding of this in such a way that I could communicate meaningfully with the visitors, a little bit.
	But you know, we know there are other creatures on this planet, like dolphins, who have complicated languages.
	And we can teach dolphins to do things, but we can't understand a single word they say to each other.
	We're not even close.
	That's right.
	Undoubtedly, they're in the same position with us.
	And these visitors are even farther away.
	They're just light years away.
	But the struggle of the government agent in the book, Lauren Glass, to communicate with the captive grey Adam is my struggle to communicate with the greys as I lived it.
	And once we're better at communicating, these stories that you hear will seem equally strange to what you are hearing.
	But there will be a consistency to them, in the sense not that everyone will be describing the same thing, but we'll all understand what the heck they mean when somebody says, well, a great came out of so-and-so.
	Right.
	Okay.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Whitley Streber and Art Bell.
	Good morning.
	Good morning, Art and Whitley.
	This is Scott from Tampa.
	Howdy.
	Hi there.
	A fascinating show, and I have to I think I'm bordering on a skeptic.
	Some nights I might not, but tonight perhaps I am.
	And the reason is that it doesn't seem that any of the encounters are at random.
	And I was wondering if Whitley had a point of view on whether or not Encounters among the population are at random, or are they selected somehow?
	They're not at random.
	I would not say that they were at random at all.
	I don't have that impression.
	And I have some rather surprising things to say about that.
	We made a list of all of the people who had written us letter mails, who had given us return addresses and names.
	It was quite a long list.
	And we had, I mean, not everyone who had written, but everyone who had written with describing experience.
	And to our surprise, many, many of these names appeared to be Scots or Irish names, people from the Celtic countries, in other words.
	And of course, the fairy lore, which is not There's nothing to do with Tinkerbell.
	It's a lot more intense than that.
	It comes from those countries as well.
	And if you read that lore, you find a lot in it, as Jacques Vallée, the great UFO researcher, did, that is similar to the modern close-encounter experience.
	And you also find in the experience that it moves down generations.
	If one member of a family has it almost Or quite often, older members of that same family will have it too.
	See, once a family showed up with four generations in tow, a baby, the young mother, the grandmother, and the great-grandmother, all who had had close encounter experiences dating back to the 30s.
	So it follows families and It seems to have a Celtic orientation.
	There's a certain number of American Indians in that as well.
	The other thing is this.
	When you get a group of these people together, and I've been in many groups of them, there's a mildness to them.
	Almost as if they've been chosen because they're not aggressive people.
	They're very mild people.
	They don't raise their fists to anybody.
	And it's like they're looking for certain types of people, and there's definitely some kind of process going on with regard to choosing them.
	It's not random.
	All right.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Whitley.
	Hi.
	Hi, this is James from Bremerton, Washington.
	Yes, James.
	And first, let me say that it's my first time calling in a radio station, so I'm pretty nervous.
	Just relax and let it out.
	I'll do my best.
	I had a couple of experiences in my past, and I'm not really entirely sure whether they are extraterrestrial in nature, but they are things that I've thought about many, many times throughout my life, and they've always left kind of a hole of wonderment.
	The first time was when I was roughly six, seven, or eight years old or so.
	I was very young, and I was left alone.
	My mom went out to work and she had called me that night to check up on me.
	And so I was walking down a hallway between my kitchen and living room and we have our main door right there and it has a window in it.
	And I was looking out the window and I glanced what seemed to be, I'm not 100% sure what it was now, but it seemed to be a creature.
	And just for that moment I Was overwhelmed with such fear that I just ran around the corner still holding the phone and I was hiding.
	And I told my mother about it.
	I haven't really talked very much sense, but I recall.
	I do recall catching a glimpse of the creature and.
	I was kind of hoping that.
	Whitley might have seen this type of creature.
	What I saw was it seemed to be roughly maybe Five and a half, six feet tall.
	It seemed to be wearing a shirt that seemed to be kind of a metallic blue color.
	It was a very, seemed to be a very thin material.
	And what was really strange about it was it appeared to be bald, but it didn't seem to have a face.
	Now, I'm not sure whether it was bald and the back of the head was facing towards me or not, but that's the impression that I got.
	Now, why did you think this was a creature and not a human being, just simply standing facing away from you?
	Well, it was a strange... I don't know, it's hard to explain.
	It was just a strange feeling that I got.
	If it was a person, then I don't think I would have had quite the feeling of fear that I had felt.
	Well, the answer to the first question is I've never seen personally anything like that.
	There are so many descriptions of different forms in the letters I've received, though, that there may be one or two with that form in it.
	It's not one I ever remember reading about either.
	And it's always possible, you know?
	I mean, these things, you can see things that are, you know, you can have a brief hallucination or something can It looked like something that it actually isn't, and that may be all that it was, and also in terms of the Close Encounter Experience, there are hypnagogic and hypnopompic states, where as you fall asleep, you may become paralyzed and see a bizarre being or some equally strange hallucination, and people will sometimes weave that into a Close Encounter Experience, or the same thing can occasionally happen upon awakening.
	And those are commonplace, ordinary parts of life.
	They don't signify anything particularly serious.
	In general, I tend to kind of, in my own life, dismiss these things if they are not accompanied by some pretty definite physical evidence at the moment.
	In other words, if the creature had come into the house, then yeah, you could definitely say It was real.
	Or if you had seen a face, that it was not just a moment's hallucination or a little bit of a moment of sleep or something like that.
	But in this case, I think you just have to leave it in question.
	Yeah, I've always wanted to see about getting myself hypnotically regressed back then to see if I can get a more clear picture.
	That also is a very good question.
	Whitley, how useful is hypnotic regression in your opinion for this sort of thing?
	It depends on two things.
	First, if you don't have any real memories, then the chances of your weaving a memory out of your knowledge and your expectations are very high.
	Whether the hypnotist is leading or not.
	So that's real hard.
	When I went under hypnosis, by the time I was hypnotized, I had everything I ever talked about under hypnosis.
	I remembered pretty much of the close encounter experience.
	The initial hypnosis session was very surprising because it involved things that had happened the previous autumn, in October, that I had not consciously remembered.
	But then when we got to the things that I did consciously remember, The hypnosis didn't add anything to it except detail, and it was also performed by a leading forensic hypnotist, a real professional, a specialist in that very thing of extracting evidence using hypnosis, and who had had successful case solution in his career.
	In other words, he'd helped people solve crimes doing this, so his techniques were effective in Drawing not the expectations or desires of the subject, but the actual memories of the subject, and that was proved in trial.
	So it's a very mixed bag.
	I would not necessarily try hypnosis under the circumstances that you describe.
	What I might try, though, is to let yourself to try to get into a relaxed situation and just see If you don't remember a little bit more, and don't push it at all, and maybe you will, and if this is frightening and troubling to you, it has left you, and it sort of sounds like this might be true in your voice, with a kind of an undercurrent of fear, it might be good to go to a psychologist, and not for hypnosis at all, but just to talk about it.
	Just somebody who will listen to you, and it doesn't matter what they think happened or didn't happen to you.
	You can just talk about it.
	And as you talk about it, this may help you to get a little bit more cloture on it.
	All right.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Whitley Streber and Art Bell.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	How you doing?
	All right, sir.
	This is Dean, Mesa, Arizona.
	I was a security guard back when Mike Siegel was on the air.
	I told him this story a few years back.
	I was sitting in the truck, security truck, and I was looking out over the gate area waiting for a delivery.
	And anyway, I guess I dozed off.
	I don't know.
	Next thing I know, I'm walking down this hallway of what I think was a spaceship.
	I could see the moon.
	We were like so close to the moon.
	It was like a real thin window.
	And there was two of these aliens, I guess, were walking me down this hallway.
	Sit me down in this like canvas chair almost like a hammock type of chair and I could see like a pinkish orange background and I could see these beans they were like transparent and they told me they said well it's time for you to go back to work somebody's waiting on you and I woke up Uh, in front of the truck, and, uh, sure enough, the delivery truck was down there at the gates waiting for me.
	Have you ever heard of, uh, transparent beans at all?
	Well, certainly translucent.
	If they were completely transparent, I don't think you'd have been able to see them.
	Well, they must have been able to see something.
	And, uh, it was a very pleasant experience, by the way.
	Okay, again, he made a very important point, Caller.
	If they were translucent, you would not have seen a thing.
	So, obviously they have some, some transparent rather, so they have some form, right?
	Yes.
	What I could really see was them, I could see their eyeballs and their mouth and their nose, that they look human.
	Other than the top of their head was bigger.
	But I could see the light behind them.
	This pinkish-orange fluorescent light, I guess you would close the thing, I could say it was.
	And it was just too real to be a dream.
	You know, we're dealing with a situation where there is something happening that's really complex and extremely strange that is trying to throw us off, because it wants to remain in the world of dream and conjecture.
	The result is that people are coming back with stories like this that are very hard to understand.
	And yet, there is one part about this story that's extremely familiar to me, and that is the process of a person being out at night in a situation when they are alone and suddenly finding themselves in this state.
	Is it a state?
	Did he fall asleep and then somehow go into a kind of a hypnagogic state like we were just describing?
	Or were you really taken somewhere?
	We don't yet know the answer to that question.
	My guess is that many people who have these experiences aren't being taken somewhere.
	I think they probably are.
	And they're coming back with descriptions of what happened to them that are very hard
	to understand because our language was not built to describe these experiences because
	they weren't part of our world apparently.
	Or at least they certainly weren't something that we were trying to talk about to each
	other.
	It's almost like the varied aspects of the descriptions we're getting are almost, it's
	almost like they're meant to confuse and they do a pretty good job of it Whitley, but it's
	obvious, it's so obvious that this is real.
	This whole phenomena is absolutely real.
	It's really happening.
	But when you get these folks together and listen to story after story after story, it just kind of sounds crazy because it's all so different.
	Listen, buddy, we're out of time.
	It's been so great having you on the air.
	You don't need help with the Graves.
	It's going to sell like crazy.
	So your website, do you want to give that a quick plug?
	Yeah, the website is unknowncountry.com.
	Go in the store, get the Graves, take a look at it.
	And tell your friends about it.
	There's no reason not to anymore.
	People accept this now.
	It's fine to tell them about it.
	It's already happening.
	Buddy, thank you for being on the program, and good night.
	Good night.
	That's Whitley Streber, folks.
	Very, very, very good friend of mine.
	And take it from me, in account, after account, after account, crazy as it may sound, this is real.
	It's really happening.
	Get the Graves.
	Read all about it.
	From Manila, I'm Art Bell.

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