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March 11, 2006 - Art Bell

02:30:44

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Peter Davenport - The Phoenix Lights

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	Peter Davenport, and we will observe this night the anniversary of the Phoenix Lights, which I think would have to be said to be the second biggest case in ufology after Roswell in 1947.
	So, we've got witnesses, we've got new stuff, we've got a lot of stuff from Peter.
	It's going to be an extremely interesting program.
	Our hour is going to be open line shortly.
	Many, many, many of you are calling all the time, emailing and asking how I'm doing and so forth and so on.
	I'm doing okay, folks.
	I will say this, which is a little mystery, I suppose.
	Many other times in my life when I've faced severe adversity of some sort or another, you know, I've... I'm a risk taker.
	I'm a risk taker.
	I've always taken a lot of risks.
	I've had a pretty good nose for it.
	And usually have walked away with what seemed like a crazy decision.
	However, it turned out quite well.
	Can't always know it'll be so, but I've been very lucky in that regard.
	And I may be preparing to make such an upside down, just take my life and throw it upside down.
	And that's all I'll say for now.
	Let's look quickly at the world news, which is always somewhat depressing.
	Slain aid worker apparently was tortured.
	Baghdad, Iraq.
	An American aid worker taken hostage with three other peace activists was apparently tortured before he was shot in the head and the chest and his body dumped near a railroad line in Baghdad, Iraq.
	Tom Fox, a 54-year-old member of Christian Peacemaker Teams from Clearbrook, Virginia, was the fifth American hostage killed in Iraq.
	There was no immediate word on his fellow captives of Britain, two Canadians.
	So this goes on and on.
	Threatened civil war there now.
	Civil war.
	It would be interesting, if there is a civil war in Iraq, Sunnis, Muslims, will just sort of, I guess, stand on the sidelines and wait until they get tired of fighting.
	It is said that in a civil war, that's all you can do.
	If people are going to decide to kill each other, you can virtually only stand back and wait until they get tired of killing, as in Kosovo and elsewhere.
	And they will, eventually.
	They get tired of it.
	Frist leads informal GOP poll for 08, so we're already looking at the presidential race.
	With home field advantage, Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist placed first in an informal poll of 2008 presidential hopefuls at a Republican conference Saturday night.
	The two-term Tennessee senator received 526 first-place votes, or 36.9 percent, in the Southern Republican Leadership Conference's straw poll sponsored by Hotline, a political digest.
	Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney finished second with 14.4 percent, Senator George Allen of Virginia third, tied with President Bush, who of course cannot seek a third term unless there's a really major change.
	In Nepal, now check this out, a 15-year-old boy whose followers firmly believe that he is the reincarnation of Buddha.
	You may have seen him on some specials on Discovery and so forth.
	Has now disappeared after 10 months of meditation in the jungle there.
	Followers of Rambadur Bajon reported his disappearance in search parties on Sunday, split up in the jungles of Barra, about 100 miles south of the capital Kathmandu, to begin investigating.
	So he's just gone.
	in a moment the the rest of the news is paul would say your attention please at dames
	Your attention, please, any ham radio operators out there, and your attention, please, everybody else.
	When I was a novice ham, uh, in 1958, long time ago now, we were in, um, in modern history, the biggest recorded sun cycle we've ever seen, and it was the most amazing thing I had ever experienced in my life.
	I was able to talk to people all over the world using 25 watts.
	That's like a 25 watt light bulb, all right?
	And I can talk to people anywhere in the world 24 hours a day.
	That's what happens when you have a big, strong mother of a sunspot cycle.
	And we just haven't had one like it since.
	Except, guess what, ladies and gentlemen?
	An announcement from NASA.
	It is official.
	Solar minimum has now arrived.
	In fact, sunspots are all but gone.
	They are gone.
	If you look at the solar disk right now, you'll see nothing but sort of orange soul.
	That's all.
	Solar flares non-existent.
	The sun is utterly quiet.
	But it is the calm before the storm.
	This week, researchers announced that a storm is coming.
	The most intense solar maximum in 50 years.
	The prediction comes from a team led by Matsumi Dekutaka of the National Center for Atmospheric Research.
	The next sunspot cycle, quoting here, will be 30 to 50 percent stronger than the previous one, he says.
	Make that a she.
	Two weeks in a row now.
	If correct, the years ahead could produce a burst of solar activity second only to the historic solar max of 1958.
	So what they're saying is, new research is showing That we're going to have the biggest one since 1958, maybe as big or even bigger.
	It says, the key to the mystery, check this out, Dick Patkey realized two years ago, is a conveyor belt on the sun.
	We have something similar here on Earth.
	called the Great Ocean Conveyor Belt, popularized in the science fiction movie, The Day After Tomorrow.
	I've heard of that movie.
	It's a network of currents that carry water and heat from ocean to ocean.
	They have a diagram here showing it.
	In the movie, the conveyor belt stops and throws the world's weather into chaos.
	The sun's conveyor belt ...is a current not of water, but of electrically conducting gas.
	It flows in a loop from the sun's equator to the poles and back again, just as the Great Ocean Conveyor Belt controls weather here on Earth.
	This solar conveyor belt controls weather on the sun.
	Specifically, it controls the sunspot cycle.
	Solar physicist David Hathaway of the National Space Science and Technology Center explains, quote, first remember what sunspots really are, tangled knots of magnetism generated by the sun's inner dynamo.
	A typical sunspot exists for just a few weeks, then decays, leaving behind the corpse of weak magnetic fields.
	Now enter our conveyor belt.
	The top of the conveyor belt skims the surface of the sun, sweeping up the magnetic fields of old, dead sunspots.
	The corpses are dragged down at the poles to a depth of 200,000 kilometers, where the sun's magnetic dynamo can amplify them.
	Once the corpses' magnetic knots, as they were, are reincarnated and amplified, they become buoyant and float back to the surface.
	Presto!
	New sunspots.
	And so, through this method of looking at the conveyor belt, they have determined that we are about to have the biggest solar maximum since 1958.
	Now, for many of you, that will mean no more than looking at the sky quite frequently in the next many years, and noticing that shimmering, beautiful, multicolored aurora that is produced as these monsters hit the Earth.
	If you're a follower of Ed Dames, you probably are developing a little nervous tick right now, as all of this seems to coalesce around the year 2012.
	It'll be 2011 or 2012 when we hit solar max, the absolute max.
	Now, of course, when you get a big solar cycle like this, it begins very quickly.
	So the good news for ham radio operators and ham radio in general is that as soon as we come out of the pits of the bottom here, it's going to rise very, very rapidly.
	And you could again be looking at, well, I kind of always hope that in my lifetime, I would get to experience another solar maximum of the magnitude that we had in 58, and it looks like I might get by chance.
	Be a good time to work on that ham license, folks.
	Jittery NASA scientists waited on Wednesday for the most advanced spacecraft ever to send to another planet to make its risky final approach to Mars, where due to a return 10 times the data, that's, it'll return 10 times as much data as anything else we've sent out put together.
	NASA's unmanned Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter, which has traveled about 300 million miles since leaving Earth in August, is due to enter its most delicate phase today, Friday.
	It will ease into orbit around Mars, which has defeated, now remember this, Mars has defeated two-thirds of everything man has tried to send there.
	That means the United States, Russia, two-thirds of what we've sent to Mars has been...
	Met with unfortunate circumstance, and in some cases met with what looked like probes that didn't want it going there.
	Now that's speculative somewhat, but there are photographs showing a giant probe just before one of, a giant ship of some kind, just before one of our probes was to go into orbit, and then nothing, just static.
	Pretty interesting story out of Argentina.
	Ufologist to visit policeman in disappearance case now.
	Policeman recovers and confirms having seen aliens.
	I don't want to be taken for a nut, he told a friend.
	Two days ago he claimed seeing two beings with large red eyes.
	I hate red eyes.
	Who gave him telepathic commands.
	Corporal Sergio Pucheta.
	Visibly recovered from the Odyssey, he underwent about 18 hours in which he claimed to have some contact with aliens, ratified all of his statements yesterday, and through close friends, asked that he, quote, not be taken for a nut.
	Pujata remains hospitalized in a ward of the medical clinic of the city's Centeno Hospital, indicating he may possibly agree to newspaper requests for an interview on Monday.
	Find out what'll happen, or what did happen rather.
	The provincial police corporal responded negatively to this newspaper's request to speak to him and obtain his version of the experience he underwent through a friend.
	Pucheta indicated he preferred to be released from the hospital before getting in touch with the press, though he expressed his concerns about having to publicize his experience.
	So, we're gonna hear all about this shortly, but apparently a police officer in Argentina was The U.S.
	government, bracing for the possibility that migrating birds could cause a deadly strain of bird flu to hit North America, plans to test nearly eight times as many birds this year as we've ever done in the past decade, starting in April.
	Samples from 75,000 to 100,000 birds are going to be tested for the virus, mainly in Alaska, because that's where they're coming across.
	As part of a joint effort of the Departments of Agriculture and Interior, along with state fish and wildlife agencies, that's a jump from 12,000 birds tested in 96.
	So they're really worried.
	And what if we do get bird flu here?
	It's likely.
	I mean, it's shown up everywhere else now, of course, in parts of Europe.
	So, if the virus is detected in wild birds in North America, we will not do what everybody else has done.
	There will be no massive killing of birds to contain it, because experts, including those in the WHO, World Health Organization, and the World Organization for Animal Health and the USDA agree, that's almost everybody, that destroying birds is not an effective control method.
	What would happen One scientist says is health experts and people involved in agriculture would be put on alert and warned to make sure that poultry are separated from wild birds but we would not kill them by the millions.
	North Carolina health officials are looking into the death of a woman who died last week of a flesh-eating bacteria Just three days after accidentally jamming her hand in a wheelchair while working at a nursing home, nursing assistant Sharon Bishop, 44 years of age, died February 27th.
	A doctor said a very rare flesh-eating bacteria may have entered her body through a thumb injury and she turned from healthy to fatally ill.
	The picture of health, one day, Three days later, dead.
	The culprit, a rare invasive form of Group A bacteria, said Debbie Crane, a spokesperson for the State Department of Health and Human Services.
	The non-invasive form is widespread.
	It's commonly known for causing strep throat, she said.
	So it's just like strep, except it gets in your thumb.
	It's kind of like getting bitten by a shark or struck by lightning.
	It's not something that spreads to the community, at least for now.
	Speaking of spreading, the Agricultural Department is now investigating a possible case of mad cow disease.
	A routine test indicated the possible presence of mad cow disease.
	According to John Clifford, the USDA official, the agency would not say where the animal was from.
	Just what we need.
	The cow did not enter the human or animal food chain, said he.
	The department is conducting more detailed tests at the laboratory in Ames, Iowa.
	Should have results in four to seven days.
	The inconclusive result does not mean we found a new case of BSE, he said.
	Giving the abbreviation for the disease's formal name.
	Inconclusive results are a normal component of most screening tests, which are designed to be extremely sensitive.
	So I guess we have to worry a little bit about Beef.
	Mad cow.
	Makes good argument for those who eat veggies, right?
	I know.
	But still, I love, I do dearly love my beef.
	Let us do a few open lines.
	Start here.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Top of the night.
	Yeah, hi Art.
	Hi.
	Okay, I've got two quick ones for you.
	One's a spooky.
	Second one's a spooky.
	I wanted to tell you about it.
	I'm a security guard in Riverside, California.
	My name's Dave.
	And you're a first-time caller?
	Yes, yes, sir, I am.
	I've tried to call before, and they couldn't hear me.
	So, you know, I took it as a first-time call.
	Anyway, so, long-time listener.
	You've got me through many a night.
	And my blessings to you, too, you know, Art.
	Okay, anyway, what happened was, Uh, we have some, we have, you know, trailer trucks, uh, flatbeds that, that this is a building supply company that I'm working with, and, uh, we got a guy that comes out with a, uh, with a big tanker, you know, he fills them up late at night, you know, I work night shift, of course.
	Well, I was sitting there, I was staying there with him, we're, John, watching, uh, him fill up this, uh, this, uh, truck, and I turn around and look up in the air, and I heard about, I guess maybe, it couldn't have been no more than 300 feet above me, is this craft, okay, and it's, it's, It's triangular shaped, and I can tell it's not really large.
	It's probably about the size of a Cessna or something.
	And it's just tracking along very, very slowly, okay?
	It's utterly silent.
	I hear him behind me.
	He goes, What the bleep is that?
	I said, I don't know.
	Now, see, I've got... Well, you're lucky to be out alive, sir.
	Security guards are really like big busted women in horror movies when they go to the basement.
	You guys are just total toast, you know?
	Well, I know.
	Here's what happened.
	I have a great big light, like a 15 million candle spotlight, right?
	And he says, light it up, man.
	I said, yeah, no, it's not a police copter, you know, so I'm going to light it up.
	And I painted the belly of the thing, Art.
	And here's what happened, okay?
	Now, it's the oddest thing.
	Yes?
	The light hit the belly, but it didn't reflect back, so we couldn't really tell you detail about it.
	I don't know, it ate the light.
	It just kind of dissipated the light, you know?
	But it was quite low enough for me to hit it, right?
	Well, the thing changed direction.
	It started tracking around to the right.
	I'm like, oh my God, I'm about to hand him this light and run, you know?
	Well, yeah, I mean, it's going to zap the light, right?
	Well, probably, here's what I figure happened.
	They turned around to see what were and figured, okay, they can't be intelligent because, you know, here we are with an utterly silent craft, probably running on, you know, a magnetic, you know, a magnetic field, and these guys are going to pay us with a light and they're unarmed.
	Okay, let's just keep going, you know.
	Anyway, so they left, but here's the odd thing about it.
	Another odd thing was that partially turned air traffic control, so I know that most of every common United States craft has to have a port and starboard light.
	Green and red lights, so another pilot can tell which way that craft is going.
	Correct.
	Okay, they also have a strobe.
	This had neither of those.
	All it had... Well, why would an alien craft have a strobe?
	Right, I'm just saying, that's sort of in my head that it wasn't, you know, something, you know, that was at least not configured properly.
	I mean, the government could do whatever they want, but in any event, it had a peach-colored outline.
	Okay?
	Very, very faint.
	But you know what, Art?
	We watched that.
	We could see it until it disappeared.
	Over the horizon.
	I mean, it was odd, because that light was so dim and so pastel, but we could see it all the way until... and there was other crafts in the air, and nothing made any move toward it, including police choppers, you know.
	They got a police chopper that goes around, you know, over the, you know, industrial areas.
	You know, oddly, oddly, these things happen in, you know, not just one, but many.
	In fact, later tonight, as we talk to you about the Phoenix Lights, You're going to hear that it really wasn't just Phoenix.
	That's one of the first things to know.
	And then two or three months went by, and just like somebody threw a switch, just like somebody said, okay, it's time to cover this.
	All three networks, can you imagine the coincidental value of something like this?
	All three major US networks on the same, the very same night, acted as though the Phoenix Lights had just happened and it
	was a major National story appearing then of course in newspapers and
	all over the place, but it was just Like somebody waited two months and said okay. Let's tell
	the story now You
	Let us continue to probe what awaits us in the lines on the lines West wild-card line rather
	You're on the air, top of the morning.
	Hello?
	Yes, I'm here.
	If you're talking to me, I called you.
	Yes, I'm talking to you.
	Yes, all right.
	This is Marina here in town.
	In, in, you mean in Pahrump?
	Yes.
	In Pahrump?
	Listening to what?
	Oh, you want to know.
	Ramona on KNYT.
	K-N-Y-E.
	Thank you.
	Of course.
	Thank you.
	Everybody gets plugs when they're calling from your phone.
	Anyway, I apologize for when you answered the phone.
	I have asthma, and I had a slight asthma problem when you answered the phone.
	Very sorry to hear that.
	Yeah, no, it's not a fun thing to have.
	I've had it all my life, so I absolutely understand where you have been.
	Yes.
	So, what's up?
	Oh, what's up?
	Well, I think it's interesting you're talking about snow in Pahrump.
	I've been here seven years.
	I've been waiting for it to snow here, so I get a snowball picking up to throw it at one of your antennas.
	Uh-huh.
	You have the coolest antennas.
	I do have antennas, that's true.
	Yeah.
	How's that one doing, the Tesla one, the one with the 13 poles?
	Those would not be poles, ma'am.
	Those are towers.
	I wouldn't call it, look, I would not call it, for the record, I would not call it a Tesla antenna.
	I don't know what the hell's going on with that antenna.
	If anybody wants to do any serious research on that antenna, you're more than welcome to.
	There is a consistent 300 volt charge on that antenna.
	Has been ever since I put it up.
	It's there in clear weather.
	When foul weather comes, it's even more.
	But on clear, Windless, beautiful days.
	You can continually get 300 volts, and the rise time can't even be calculated.
	It's so fast.
	You can sit there, and I've got a nice switch on it, and you can go ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch, and you get a big blue arc every time you do it.
	So, one of these days, somebody's going to come and do some research and figure out for me what it is going on with this antenna.
	I surely do not know.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	Hi, Art.
	Hi.
	Um, okay.
	I have got a theory of how we got down here to Earth.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	All right.
	First, Adam and Eve were sent down here, and their job was to procreate and build the Great Pyramid.
	Wait a minute.
	Wait a minute.
	I don't think Adam and Eve were told to build the pyramid, right?
	Yes, they were.
	They were?
	They were told to procreate.
	Well, I know they procreated, but I mean, it was the Egyptians.
	That would have been a whole lot of procreating later.
	Okay.
	Well, anyway.
	The pyramid here on Earth and the pyramid there on Mars lined up.
	The planet stopped, hence your ice age.
	And then that caused a great storm on Mars, which brought a big old funnel cloud and took all the water and sucked it off of Mars and shot it down to Earth.
	Landed on Earth at Marianas Trench.
	That's what caused Marianas Trench.
	May I ask, uh, what support you have for this very interesting, uh, outlandish theory?
	Uh, just something I came up with.
	So, you just, like, thought it up?
	Just thought it up.
	So there was a big funnel cloud.
	I mean, it's, uh, Mars, you say Mars stopped?
	I'm sorry, Earth stopped.
	I see.
	Then a big funnel cloud came, and all the water that was on Mars drained into Earth.
	Drained into Earth.
	Uh-huh.
	There, on Earth, the Marianas Trench.
	It created Marianas Trench.
	Yes.
	Alright.
	That, in turn, caused the Great Flood.
	Great Flood, yes, it would do that.
	Which is why you have water levels so high up.
	Yes.
	Okay.
	And, as far as transporting citizens, or the people, I don't know, maybe they climbed inside the water or something and froze right along with it.
	Uh-huh.
	So.
	What's your, sir, what's your diet like?
	I'm a cork driver, so... Catch as catch can, right?
	Yeah.
	I see.
	Alright, well, keep those eyes on the road.
	Thank you for not shriveling up.
	I'll see you later.
	Too many miles on the road.
	What's with the Rockies?
	You're on the air.
	Okay.
	Oh man.
	Too many miles on the road.
	Wes of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi, well you're having an interesting time tonight.
	Yeah.
	I'm just going to go ahead and get started.
	I'm going to go ahead and get started.
	This is Edson and I'm in Los Angeles, a suburb called Finland.
	And it's not very sunny here, it's cold here.
	We had a little snow earlier and it hasn't snowed here in 57 years.
	It snowed in L.A.? ?
	Yeah, very briefly.
	It was a lot of traffic jams, a lot of people wondering what that white stuff was coming out of the sky.
	I'm sure when five consecutive flakes hit a highway in LA, 13 die.
	Yeah, I'm afraid so.
	I want to talk about the 150th birthday anniversary of Nikola Tesla this year.
	Tesla again, yes.
	Yeah, 2006.
	There are some celebrations throughout the world, but when is there really going to be a Tesla movie?
	Um, actually, you know, I've heard they're working on a movie about Tesla.
	Now, I don't know any of the details, but I've heard very strong rumors they're actually doing it.
	Oh, great.
	Well, he was such a, you know, a genius, and people, some people say that he was an alien, or had some type of alien influence, or something like that.
	uh... his genius here may are modern world that radio radio control and uh...
	uh... should be from one of the attack on a roundtable maybe the coast to coast
	without a total roundtable well uh... what would be interesting to do i think with tesla
	would be to separate
	from fiction tesla is uh... reputed to have done many things that i
	think he has not done He's done many, he did many wonderful things, many amazing things and of course many things we'll never know about because the government rushed in and took everything you know all his documentation and work and so we're free then to imagine just about anything and you know he's attributed with making buildings shake and cities shake and earthquakes and I think not all of that is true so what would be of real value
	If it could be done, and if we could get the right people, would be to validate what Tesla actually did do, and separate the myth and the man.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hey Art, how are you?
	Alright.
	Oh good, good.
	Hey, I wanted to make a comment.
	You know, I was thinking about the disclosure, the UFO disclosure, and why they still have it going on, and why we haven't been told the truth.
	You know, I was thinking, what if they were taking the technology, Reversing it, and then selling it to the big companies.
	And basically making this deal, you know, as it goes.
	Because it seems to be that the elected government isn't the permanent government, you know?
	Well, I don't rule out what you're saying.
	That's essentially what Colonel Corso said that he did, sir.
	Do you recall?
	Oh yeah, I did.
	I do believe that on your...
	Oh yes, I interviewed Colonel Corso a number of times and it was quite remarkable.
	He said that he was given access to a drawer, his word, of technology that was obtained after the Roswell crash and it was his job to integrate that into American industry and I recall all kinds of claims like lasers and other things that came from the Roswell crash.
	That's fantastic.
	Yes, it is.
	I mean, he was an older man who had, in my opinion, nothing to gain from doing the interviews that he did with me.
	And I rather believed him.
	I don't know whether any of you have had the opportunity to hear the Colonel Corso interviews, but if not, they should be immediately resurrected from the archives, and we should definitely make them available for you to hear.
	That would be a suggestion coming from me.
	They were very important interviews, and You know, when you get somebody his age, and he knows it's near the end of his life, you rather expect to get the truth, and I think we did hear the truth.
	So, those would be very important interviews for you to review.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Hi, Art.
	This is Joey in Indio, California.
	Hi, Joey.
	Well, I hope you don't decide to retire again, because, well, I've missed you for a long time.
	No, it's not going to be that, but I'm going to do something rather radical.
	I'll leave it at that.
	Don't worry, I'm not retiring.
	I have a question.
	what do you think it would take for society to collapse?
	Like if terror started picking off people in small little towns, do you think that would do it?
	Or would it have to be something major again?
	No, that would not do it.
	What would do it, though, and could do it, would be really the smallest thing in a way.
	For example, a dirty bomb.
	People say that's not small.
	In a lot of ways it is small, sir.
	A dirty bomb is just radioactivity packed with, you know, explosive to scatter it around, and it really wouldn't kill very many people at all.
	But the resulting panic from that happening would kill a whole bunch of people.
	So, it would depend.
	Terrorists could do things... You know, our economy is rather precarious, as was proven by 9-11.
	Of course, it did recover, so you could argue it's robust in another way, but anything that would crash the economy, I think, would do the trick.
	Right, because I'm a truck driver, and I think if something like that happened, I think a lot of truck drivers would be like, you know, I gotta go home and defend the home front.
	And if freight stops moving, Well, what did we learn from New Orleans, sir?
	All those policemen who chucked it in and just went and, you know, took care of their families or just plain left or whatever.
	That's going to happen in that scale of an emergency.
	Public service workers are human beings too.
	They're going to take care of their own.
	Right, yeah.
	Well, let's hope it doesn't happen, but everybody should get prepared for it.
	Let's hope it doesn't, but everybody should be prepared for the possibility.
	People take oaths, and those oaths are important, but when it comes down, when it really comes down to it, how many of you would say that you would not take care of your loved one?
	That you would perform your public service without a thought to what's going on at home, the children, the wife, the rest of it?
	How many of you could honestly say, and I mean dig down deep for this one, And you would not save your own family first?
	I think not too many.
	I think half, maybe.
	So, that in mind, if there was a national emergency of that scale, I think what that gentleman suggested and what we observed in New Orleans would be repeated.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hey Art, this is Mark and I haven't talked to you in a while.
	Yes, sir.
	You were talking about DVDs a couple of weeks ago, I think HD and that kind of thing.
	Oh, Blue Ray.
	And I tried to call you, how about this?
	I'm looking at a technician holding what appears to be a DVD in his hand.
	I can almost see through it.
	It looks butterscotch in color.
	In-face technologies.
	Holographic disc.
	Can store 40 times as much data as a DVD.
	Or nearly 300 times as much as a CD.
	Holographic technology.
	Well, that's awesome.
	I mean, what's coming out shortly is Sony's Blu-ray, and then there's a competing technology called HD DVDs.
	I hadn't heard what you're talking about, but yeah, we're at the precipice of a gigantic change in this country, a big one.
	Well, it talks about it.
	A regular DVD does one bit when it's recording.
	This sucker does one point, well let's see, It flash stores 1.2 million bits of data.
	That is amazing.
	This was in the Atlanta Journal-Constitution on December 11, 2005.
	Yeah, all of these advances are astounding, and what it's going to mean, of course, is eventually holographs and all kinds of things that were, you know, Star Trek-ish, and it's all going to be real.
	Perhaps not in our lifetimes, but we are laying the groundwork for it right now.
	There's simply no question about it.
	Someday, the holodeck is going to be real.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hi, Art.
	Hello.
	Hi, Steve.
	Northern California.
	Hey, Steve.
	KEX out of Oregon.
	Yes, sir.
	50,000 large.
	Yes.
	I want to tell you that three or four months ago, they discovered two juvenile tyrannosaurs fossilized with feathers around their necks.
	Feathers?
	Feathers.
	How big were these?
	They were, uh, one was six feet, one was seven feet.
	They were juveniles.
	There was a legitimate wire story, sir, not many years ago.
	You don't need to call me sir.
	Dummy will work.
	Well, no, you're not a dummy.
	Honestly now, a legitimate wire story that a guy had found two miniature Tyrannosaurus rexes in Nevada had one of them stored in a metal tool shed and the damn thing bore a hole right through it and got away.
	He had the other one and was going to supply pictures.
	It was just a whale of a story.
	Yes, Art, that's nonsense.
	This is a real one.
	No, it wasn't nonsense.
	It was a legitimate... There was a photograph of the guy with the thing in his hand.
	But there are no translators alive today, Art.
	Well, okay.
	They found the two fossilized ones with feathers around their neck.
	Two years ago, they discovered un-fossilized tyrannosaur tissue.
	That'd be enough to do DNA.
	Exactly.
	And I've talked to George probably three times, and I can't get anything done.
	What is it you want done?
	Well, I'd love to have a show about dinosaurs, because today's dinosaurs are not your father's dinosaurs.
	And the guy to talk to, his name is Robert Bakker.
	B-A-K-K-E-R.
	Alright, well you send me an email.
	I don't have a computer.
	You don't have a computer?
	This guy is a PhD.
	You mean you can't go to a library and get to a computer?
	Yeah, it's too far away.
	I hate computers anyway.
	You hate, why?
	Because they're just a real pain.
	I don't enjoy being on them.
	They're stressful.
	Really?
	I don't like having my face a foot and a half away from a CRT screen.
	Well, you use an LCD.
	Well, I'm just one of those guys that... They're evil!
	No, it's not that they're evil, it's just that I don't need them.
	Well, actually, I beg to differ with you, but you're going to need a computer if you want to participate in this day and age.
	You have to be computer literate.
	So, struggle.
	Make an exception.
	I can't, you know, do it here.
	It's something I'll have to research.
	So, you're going to have to get to a computer somehow.
	Send me email.
	By the way, to do that, I'm Art Bell at AOL.com.
	Or, I'm Art Bell at MindSpring.com.
	A-R-T-B-E-L-L at MindSpring.
	M-I-N-D-S-P-R-I-N-G dot com.
	Love to get your emails.
	Reading them all these days.
	First time caller line?
	You're on the air.
	Hello.
	Oh, hello?
	Are you there?
	Yes, I'm here.
	Oh, this is Wade.
	How are you tonight?
	I'm okay.
	Oh, I'm calling you from Tega Bay over in South Carolina, you know.
	And I just wanted to say, I'm calling you from the Super Federation of the United Galaxy.
	I'm aboard the craft right now, and they wanted me to call you and say, how are you doing there tonight?
	You know?
	Uh, you're, you're gonna hurt your throat if you keep that up.
	You know?
	Oh, no.
	I'm, I just, uh... Wait a minute, I hear another one in the background.
	Oh, no, you turned up your radio.
	Oh, my radio's on.
	I gotta turn that down there.
	They were having me talk about things and it's real nice to finally get a hold of you, sir.
	How are you tonight?
	I'm fine.
	Turn your radio off.
	Oh, it's off now.
	Okay, good.
	Uh, how am I?
	I already indicated I'm fine.
	Now, what else do you have?
	Since you're from another galaxy, is that correct?
	No, no, they take me up in their spacecraft all the time and we, you know, they do kind of experiments on me sometimes.
	Oh, yes?
	I mean, I kind of like it.
	No, it's just...
	Oh, I get real scared sometimes, and I don't know if I should tell the police, but they'll just put me away in some kind of an institution, you know?
	And I don't want anybody to put me away and take my children from me, you know?
	My children, I just, I don't know what to do, sir.
	Uh-huh.
	Well, I would say, I don't know, take it slow.
	Peter has had a very active interest in the UFO phenomena since his early boyhood.
	He actually had his first UFO sighting over St.
	Louis Municipal Airport in the summer of 1954.
	That'll do it.
	And he investigated his first UFO case during the summer of 1965 in Exeter, New Hampshire.
	Peter has been witness to several anomalous events, possibly UFO related, including a dramatic sighting over Baja California in February of 1990, several nighttime sightings over Washington State during 92.
	In addition to being the Director of the National UFO Reporting Center, Peter has served as the Director of Investigations for the Washington Chapter of the Mutual UFO Network.
	And we've got some witnesses coming up to what happened In Phoenix and beyond Phoenix, I would like to add.
	But first, you know, Peter, because of the last call that I had in this last hour, it was obviously a guy You know, hoaxing.
	It was a guy calling up with a strained, he had to have been hurting his throat to do it, saying he was on a galactic ride in some spaceship somewhere.
	You know, it was an obvious hoax.
	Now, that really dovetails into something that you're having a big problem with, and we do have this problem in ufology with people hoaxing things.
	And it was, like, right up front there in what you sent me, so I want to take a moment and talk about it.
	You have a lot of trouble With hoaxes, don't you?
	Oh, boy.
	If it were not for hoaxes, my job would be easy, and this is not an easy job, Art.
	You're exactly correct.
	In fact, the problem is getting worse.
	I don't know exactly why, but my suspicion is it's due in part to the proliferation of cell phones now in the hands of young people.
	And it is very, very discouraging.
	This is not an easy job.
	Just as some people might think that your job is easy.
	I suspect it is not.
	Not that at all, but... Well, it's my job to make it sound easy, but no, it's not.
	It's every night relentless.
	That's exactly what I face on a UFO hotline, and frankly, It is very disheartening.
	Some days, fully 50% of the calls that come to our hotline here in Seattle are young kids, insolent, calling on their cell phones, oftentimes calling from a party, all of them all at once to see who can get through to the hotline.
	And the person who gets through, more often than not, starts screaming, I mean, some of the worst language I've ever heard in my life.
	This is every night.
	And they've got to make a long-distance call, for the most part, to do that.
	Yes.
	Mom and Dad, check, where are your children and why do they have a cell phone?
	Why are they calling Peter?
	No, I sympathize, Peter.
	This job is difficult enough, the material we're dealing with, without putting up with the hoaxers.
	And you say half of the calls sometimes are hoaxers.
	That's awful.
	Between 20 and 50 percent of the calls we're getting are, I estimate, hoaxed or frivolous calls.
	And you can imagine how much easier my day would be if those calls were to suddenly go away.
	It would actually be an enjoyable job.
	But maybe we can talk about this during the third hour tonight.
	It is really a serious problem, as well as the hoaxed reports that pour in during the school day.
	Almost as if these kids don't have enough work or homework to deal with.
	Well, there you are.
	The problem is more homework.
	Or the answer is more homework.
	Lots more homework.
	We're going to become very unpopular before this program is over.
	Or more supervision.
	More supervision and more homework.
	That's it, kids.
	Keep calling.
	Well, there goes our listener base now.
	Well, our listener base just got wiser, that's all.
	The thing is, though, Peter, the reason that you do the job and I do the job is because, dammit, They are real.
	I've seen them.
	You've seen them.
	And God knows, on Phoenix that night, the date was?
	March 13th, 1997.
	Thursday night.
	A night I will never forget.
	Nor I. I expect the same for you.
	Nor I. It was one of the wildest nights I've ever spent on this planet.
	Never have I seen so many calls come in in such a short period of time.
	We have the great pleasure of being able to bring at least two or three of those very, very good witnesses to our program tonight.
	One of the most frustrating things about my job, aside from the hoax calls, is the fact that I don't think many people are paying attention.
	And even today, nine years after the Phoenix Lights event, we get calls from people who either have never heard of the Phoenix Lights case, Or who've heard about it and they've concluded that, well, it must have been those flares that the government told us about.
	Yes.
	And if I have one objective tonight, it is to bring to our listeners here on coast the evidence that they will need, I believe, that will be adequate for them to conclude Whether the Phoenix Lights can be ascribed to a handful of flares 60 miles southwest of Phoenix, or whether they cannot.
	Well, they couldn't use swamp gas in the Phoenix area.
	That wouldn't go to fly, right?
	So it had to be flares or something else.
	Yes.
	And flares seemed to fit the bill.
	But our government would not lie to us about something of this magnitude, right?
	Oh, clearly.
	I'm sure everybody recognizes that.
	But after our listeners have listened to actually three witnesses during their first hour, and then listened to some of the investigators who have been kind enough to come on to the program with us tonight, I defy anybody to believe the official government story, and we will maybe talk later in the program about what may have been going on in the government that night.
	They must have been shocked To see five objects go over Phoenix, Arizona, each one of which we estimate to have been the size of an international airport.
	That's how big they were.
	An international airport?
	An international airport.
	These objects were at least one and maybe more like two miles in width.
	I think that's what all investigators agree on.
	We'll hear some of those investigators in about an hour's time or so.
	My God.
	But imagine Five of those going over Phoenix and surrounding areas, and the most incredible thing, and I hope we get a chance to talk about the press coverage later in the program.
	Oh, I promise you we'll make time, yes.
	The most incredible thing is that it created almost no ripple in the news media whatsoever, even when some of the major news media in this country were apprised of what had happened that night and the day following.
	And they elected to turn their back on it and not cover it.
	I know.
	It's the most bizarre thing.
	People think of me, the Coast listeners who've heard me before, probably think of me as a ufologist.
	In point of fact, I think it's more correct to say that I'm an observer, excuse me, of unusual psychology, human psychology, and unusual societal response to the UFO phenomenon.
	it that strikes me as being more strange than having five gigantic objects go
	over phoenix the fact that they would be it was not covered at all in
	the national press for almost three months is even more bizarre still in my
	estimation And then the fact that the way it got covered after three months astounds me.
	Yeah.
	Now, do you recall the night itself?
	Of course, we began early on taking calls here.
	It was just beyond all imagination, Peter, what went on here on my phones.
	Absolutely.
	It went berserk.
	And I'm assuming that your phones did the same thing.
	It's one of those rare instances where I don't turn the tape recorder off.
	I just let it run and answer calls sequentially.
	Yes.
	Yeah.
	So, coming up, we've got a couple of witnesses, actually, to what actually happened.
	It'd be Sue Watson, Mrs. Sue Watson, and I think Liz Sue is her daughter, is that correct, Sue?
	That's right, my daughter Monica.
	And also Sue and Monica, and Stacey Rhodes.
	And are all of you, Stacey, are you in Phoenix?
	No, I'm in Tucson, Arizona.
	Tucson.
	Okay.
	We've got a little crackle on the line from the other station.
	Yeah, we were trying to get rid of it here.
	I see.
	All right.
	Well, let us begin then.
	Peter, why don't you do the interview?
	Sue, you're first.
	Okay.
	Did you want to ask me a question or did you just want me to?
	Well, Peter, how do you want to do it?
	Well, just a brief preface.
	These two witnesses are, in my opinion, the best that we've run across in the last nine years.
	I invited them on tonight because, number one, they had a wonderful view of the objects that went directly over their heads.
	Number two, each of them was with four other people, so it's not as though we have just one person telling us what she allegedly saw, and they're excellent witnesses.
	With that, why don't we start with Sue, who saw the object before Stacy did, Sue up in Phoenix, just south of Camelback Mountain, between Camelback Mountain and Sky Harbor Airport, as I remember.
	And just one last preface, if I may.
	Any of our listeners who are online who would like to see the actual objects or artists' renditions of what Sue and Stacy are going to be talking about during this hour, they go to our website, UFOcenter.com, and click on the link that will lead them to the illustrations that I've taken from my slide presentation.
	With that, Sue, why don't you just take it from there and describe where you were, and when you were, and with whom, and what you saw, please.
	Well, actually, my daughter Monica, who's on the phone, drove up to the house, because we were all going to go out that night with three of my other children.
	So she came up and came running into the house.
	And, um, got us all to come out to the front yard.
	And that is when we first saw the lights coming over Camelback Mountain, and there were probably five big, huge lights in front of this, what I was calling the vehicle, because we didn't know what it was.
	And, um, it came very slowly over, um, a very big mountain, just literally a mile north of me, maybe.
	Sue, uh, you say your daughter's on the line right now?
	Yes, Monica's the first one that saw it.
	Monica, are you there?
	I'm here.
	Hi.
	Hi, Monica.
	Hi.
	All right, so you're the first one who saw it, right?
	I was, yeah.
	Monica, was it beyond lights?
	In other words, could you see form in between the lights?
	Perhaps blinking out the stars, or in other words, could you make out form beyond lights?
	I couldn't.
	I couldn't see.
	I couldn't see stars through between the lights, if that's what you're asking.
	That's what I'm asking.
	I couldn't make out an exact shape.
	The lights were definitely in some sort of form.
	I guess I've always described it as like a boomerang.
	Like the shape of a boomerang.
	If I might ask, how old are you, Monica?
	I'm 29.
	29, alright.
	I guess I was 21 at the time.
	And so, there you were, looking at... Would you call it a-craft or mini-craft?
	I would have to say one.
	It would surprise me if somebody were to say that it were more than one, if they had actually seen it.
	So you believe it was one giant craft?
	Yeah.
	And you stood there and watched it for how long before you ran for the house?
	Well, I turned around as soon as I got out of my car.
	I turned around and it obviously caught my eye coming up over Camelback Mountain.
	Oh yeah.
	And the first thing I saw was one light, and then I felt like I saw maybe three, and then five.
	And I stood there in awe.
	I'm wondering what it was, and I was almost afraid to turn around and run because I didn't want to miss it.
	Right.
	And I knew it was unusual because that's not a flight pattern.
	You would never see an airplane coming over Camelback Mountain heading south like that.
	Right.
	So I knew that it was something odd and huge, and I was a skeptic for sure, and I just couldn't make out what it was.
	So I think I probably stood there for 10, 15 seconds.
	Before I finally decided to run inside and get the rest of my family.
	And that was how many more people?
	I think there were four more besides me.
	So four?
	Mom and three others came running out with you.
	Right.
	And by then what were you seeing?
	By then it was hovering, I guess, in between Camelback Mountain and our home.
	Hovering?
	Yeah, and it was moving extremely slowly.
	And at that point we were just awestruck, to be honest with you, and we just could not figure out what in the world, what kind of craft could be that large, because it took up so much of the sky, and like you had asked me before, you couldn't see through it, you couldn't see sky past it, like through the lights.
	Sue, do you corroborate that?
	Would your impression be that it was a craft, that there was something solid between the lights?
	It was absolutely a craft and something solid because we were, it was right over us and we were looking up and our two boys, my two younger children that were out there, were actually laying on their backs in the yard and just watching it and we were just watching it and it was, it was so close.
	I mean, they were waving.
	Boys, now it was dark outside.
	But they were waving it was so close, like maybe somebody up there can see us.
	Holy mackerel.
	Yeah, it was phenomenal.
	And then we're just, it was huge.
	I can't even imagine how many football fields it must have consumed.
	You know, it's so hard now to, I remember when I called and I was asked, how many fists would it take to cover it?
	And I was just trying to, I went right outside when Peter asked me that.
	And because I had a long cord on my phone and I ran outside and I was like, oh my gosh, over five or six or seven fifths.
	So then you were actually on the phone with Peter as you were seeing it?
	No, I wasn't.
	This was later when I called the airport here and they gave me his number.
	He asked me, go look and tell me, would a thumb cover it?
	And I said, absolutely not.
	And then he said, would a fifth cover it?
	And I said, absolutely not.
	And I could still visualize it.
	It was very, you know, it was just, Maybe an hour or so.
	I'm not sure when I called him that he asked me that question, so I could definitely visualize how much of the space over my house it took up.
	That's gigantic.
	It's huge.
	Alright, did this thing just suddenly disappear?
	Did it suddenly take off?
	What did the craft do?
	Well, it was going very slow with absolutely no noise.
	Right on again.
	We couldn't hear anything.
	Yeah.
	Unlike like an airplane that we would hear.
	Like normally hear.
	Right.
	Or a jet or something.
	Yeah.
	So we were out there somewhere, you know, between three and five minutes watching it.
	And again, I'm not more than a mile and a half from that mountain that it came over.
	So it was, it passed our house and we kept, we could see it.
	It was so huge.
	And we're looking at planes.
	I mean, that's what was weird.
	You could see jets.
	just around in a normal pattern around Phoenix.
	That, by the way, I went out later and I could cover with my thumb,
	just to give you an idea. And these are low jets ready to make the circle to go land at Sky Harbor.
	And we kept watching it. Approximately, I would guess, down to McDowell, which is two miles away from me.
	And then we were just so fascinated. And all of a sudden, we saw it just jet off.
	I mean, just south.
	Alright, now, you see, that's very important.
	So, you actually saw motion, you saw it take off, just like that?
	Oh my gosh, yes!
	Um, alright, you see... It looked like we just lost it, like it just was there, and then it just, it was gone.
	It just zoomed out.
	All of the lights?
	Oh yeah, the lights were past us by then.
	The lights were in the front, and you could still see the lights around it.
	It almost looked like the yellowish kind of amber lights that are in parking lots at night.
	Yes, I'm trying to differentiate between flares burning out and a craft taking off, you see.
	No, the craft was over our home, and we watched it go south, and then we saw it go very quickly away south.
	What do you two think you saw?
	Well, at this point, with no one coming forward, obviously, it's a UFO.
	At the time, we thought it was something we were going to read about the next morning.
	Well, I guess what I mean by that is, do you believe that you saw a craft from another planet?
	From another galaxy?
	From another somewhere?
	Not here?
	I would say yes.
	Because I've never seen anything so quiet and so large flying in these skies ever in my life.
	And... What would you say?
	Well, I gotta admit that before ever seeing anything like this or having experienced this, I was definitely a skeptic.
	And when we came inside and called the airport, and just because we were curious about what it was and they couldn't give us an explanation, they said they had picked nothing up on their radar or whatever.
	Anywhere in our area.
	Did they sound like they had received a lot of calls in addition to yours?
	They didn't admit it.
	They didn't admit it at the time.
	No kidding.
	They kind of acted like we were crazy.
	Really?
	Now isn't that interesting.
	Right.
	So they were kind of trying to tone us down maybe.
	And then again, as my mom had mentioned, referred us, given us Peter's number at that point.
	Um, but yeah, like my mom had said, if no one else can come up with anything, a better explanation, you can't help but, I guess, wonder what, what else it could have been.
	Because it was, it was enormous.
	It was awesome.
	It was just phenomenal.
	I mean, it was just nothing like I had ever seen before.
	So, you too think you saw a spaceship?
	Well, yeah, now I do.
	I didn't at the time.
	At the time, what did you think it was?
	I didn't know.
	I thought it was some new invention that they were seriously going to tell us what went over our city that night.
	Oh, I see.
	Something we had done and the major announcement would be coming soon.
	Right, right.
	Got it.
	Something, if I could cut in here, just for a second.
	I think Sue saw that object do something just before it streaked off.
	I'm looking forward to hearing her description of that event.
	but the curious thing about this object is that shortly after sue and monica
	had seen it it's straight to the south and passed through the airspace
	of sky harbor airport
	once again from the u.s. all reporting center in seattle washington uh... which
	is inestimable value uh... to us over the years in terms of
	gathering information because god knows there isn't much else out there
	Peter Davenport.
	Peter, welcome back.
	Thank you.
	And our guests, Sue Watson and daughter Monica and Stacey Rhodes.
	Now, there was something that Kraft did just prior to taking off, Peter said.
	What was that?
	Well, I was the only one that saw it.
	Did you want me to answer this?
	I'm sorry.
	If you're the only one that saw it, absolutely I do, yes.
	I was looking at the front of it because it was so fascinating, and you know, the kids were, the younger kids were running around and looking at it, and I was looking at it going south, and I saw this flash of light out of the right side of it.
	And it would almost remind you of like a laser that just shot down to the ground.
	And I was, you know, I got all excited.
	I said, did you guys see that?
	And they were looking.
	It was that big to where you would miss something like that.
	And unfortunately, the kids didn't see it and it didn't do it again, but it was really, really something.
	But I remember that because I told him that that night.
	That I was the one that saw the flash and it did, it almost looked like a laser beam went down, which I know sounds...
	It's strange, but I saw it.
	Alright, I think we've got a very good description from the two of you, and completely believable, so I want to thank you both for being here.
	Well, wait a minute.
	Hang on a line.
	You might want to compare notes, because we have Stacey Rhodes here, and Stacey actually is, I think, in Tucson?
	Yes.
	Uh-huh.
	Tucson, Stacey.
	So, would this be, by the way, let's compare notes, at about the same time, or was there a time difference?
	My sighting was around 8.30 at night.
	All right.
	And Sue?
	Mine was before that.
	Somewhere from 8.20 to 8.25.
	Well, that's pretty close.
	Okay, Stacey, what did you see in Tucson?
	Well, actually, I was on I-10, just outside of Casa Grande, Arizona, near the Sacaton Mountains.
	And a very good friend of mine was driving the car.
	My mother was in the passenger seat.
	Okay, is that close to Tucson, or...?
	Closer to Phoenix.
	Close to Phoenix, alright.
	It's about midway.
	And I have my daughter in the backseat, passenger side, and her friend was in the, uh...
	Um, or she, my daughter was driver's seat and my, her friend was passenger seat and I was rear middle.
	Right.
	And at about 11 o'clock, coming right off the Sacketton Mountains, um, my friend said, who was driving, exclaimed, what in the hell is that?
	And we saw three lights coming off the top of the mountain.
	And, um, then it proceeded to come across, over the mountain and there were five lights.
	Three in the very front of the craft and then one on each wingtip.
	Sue, does that drive?
	Yeah, it does, because it was the shape of a boomerang, so you could see where the ends wouldn't, you know, be seen right away at one point, where I was straight on coming over the mountain, so I pretty much saw them.
	Alright, well you would have been seeing it from different angles, I presume.
	Stacey, okay, so you've got a total of five lights now.
	Yes, we've got a total of five lights, and it's still north-northwest of us, but then it came right over I-10, and we're heading north on I-10, going 80 miles an hour, And the nose of this craft finally came over the roof of my car, and we had a straight-on view of it.
	Really?
	Oh, it was, uh, yeah.
	Oh.
	It was amazing.
	Alright, and again, Stacey, this is a very important question, because the explanation, of course, was flares.
	Um, is there any way what you saw were flares, or did you see the body of a craft?
	I saw the body of a craft.
	Hello.
	Okay.
	And I actually saw seams when we were underneath it.
	Oh my god, really?
	Yes.
	And I did have a 35mm camera.
	I was attempting to take pictures but the object was so huge that even one orb or one light Completely filled my lens to where I couldn't even take a picture.
	Someone would have thought I took a close-up of a light.
	Stacey, I hear you.
	How close would you say the craft was to you?
	How high in the sky?
	No more than 2,500 feet.
	Would you agree with Sue and Monica as to the size of this thing?
	My first estimation from wingtip to wingtip was three miles.
	And from nose to the flat edge that went over me, I estimated at about a mile and a half to two miles.
	God.
	We were underneath it for one to two minutes.
	And you were driving?
	Went over us till the time the edge, um, exited over the back end of my car.
	It was at least a minute and a half.
	And how fast were you going, do you estimate, Stacey?
	Um, 75 miles an hour plus.
	And it was going the opposite direction, and you estimate you were... At a very slow hover.
	Under it for one to two minutes.
	Correct.
	Oh my god, that thing is gigantic!
	She's doing better than a mile a minute.
	Fair amount better than a mile a minute.
	At a stationary object.
	Um, and you could, now this is very interesting, you could see, you said seams.
	Is there any way you can get any more descriptive?
	I mean, that's very good already, but seams.
	Like a ship hull.
	I agree.
	Oh, you do?
	Absolutely.
	There were lights all the way around it.
	It was totally illuminated.
	And I agree with Sue.
	I saw the three lights on the front, and then the one on each wingtip.
	A total of five lights.
	Well, either one of you, Sue or Monica, did you see what you would call seams?
	Well, seams being the outline of a vehicle from the back.
	It was totally lit up.
	Not in those big, huge lights you've seen on the news, but it, I am telling you, it was totally lit up all the way around that boomerang shape.
	All the way to the back, everywhere.
	And it was.
	It was like this structure, and that's why the boys were waving.
	They almost thought there must be someone that can see us, because you could see the vehicle, and it was just... I don't know what we were seeing, but we were definitely seeing lights all the way around.
	Not those big spotlights in the front, but I mean there were lights all the way, even on the back.
	And because you couldn't see Past the sky, past it.
	You had to assume it was solid.
	Right.
	Well, Stacey, those saw scenes, I mean, that's pretty indicting, Stacey.
	Stacey, what was your impression of what you were seeing?
	I mean, to be driving under something this size and, you know, you knew because of how quickly you were driving the scale of what you were seeing.
	How did that settle in on you?
	What did you think you were seeing?
	Um, something from out of this world.
	My heart sunk at first, and then I, we turned off the radio, the children in the back seat both rolled down the windows and stuck their heads out, and like Sue said, there was no noise whatsoever, and this thing was right above our heads, and um... There was no way to stop the car, Stacey, and uh, and just get out and look up?
	I don't know why we We did not stop.
	There was no conversation going on.
	I don't know if we were all scared and heading in the opposite direction, thinking, OK, if this is going that way, we should be going the other way.
	So I don't know why we didn't stop.
	In retrospect, I wish I would have.
	I wish I would have taken a picture of the light, even though it would have probably been undiscernible.
	And the color of the light, like Sue said, the only thing I can describe it to is when the harvest moon rises, the weird orange color it has when it's right on the horizon.
	Yes.
	That's absolutely the same color.
	It would not come into focus.
	It was like, um, watery or, um, hazy.
	Yeah.
	You obviously agree on the details here.
	You obviously saw the same thing.
	The lights in the front were clearer, and the ones that went all the way around the vehicle were more like, like I say, those parking lot lights, that kind of a yellowish... Yeah, the amber, the harvest amber color.
	Uh-huh.
	All right.
	Peter, anything else we need to ask?
	Question for Stacy.
	You were on the highway.
	There were obviously other cars there.
	Yes.
	Was anybody else visibly paying attention to this thing?
	No.
	I was amazed.
	I would have thought people would have been pulling over or having accidents.
	Nobody seemed to be paying any attention.
	That's bizarre.
	And another thing Sue had mentioned was, could you cover this object with a fist?
	If I laid on my back and opened a newspaper, I could not cover this object out.
	It completely engulfed my field of view.
	Yeah, that's the whole sky.
	The whole sky.
	The entire sky, and I watched it as it came over the front tip.
	I watched as it blotted out the stars.
	Then I got to see the underneath of it.
	For over a minute, I just sat and stared at this thing, and then directly as the back edge went over me, I sat up to turn around to see it, and there was nothing.
	I saw no gaseous fumes.
	No afterburners and nothing.
	Have you seen Independence Day either?
	I compare it to that but I don't like to because then it seems more like I'm following the movie.
	It was that big.
	It would crush downtown Tucson, not all of Tucson, But downtown Tucson, it could not have landed on I-10 in an emergency.
	I'm sure you're glad it didn't.
	Yeah, I've got it.
	That's just an astounding, astounding witness description from all of you.
	So, listen, I want to thank Sue and Monica and Stacey for sort of setting the stage for us.
	And I don't believe, have any of you been on here before with me?
	I've been on with you on Dreamland one time, Mark.
	Oh my God, that was a long time ago.
	I've got a copy of the tape.
	Right, okay.
	Well, listen, again, thank you both.
	Well, thank you, and thank you for keeping this question alive.
	I would like to know what it was I saw.
	Boy, do we have to keep it alive.
	Thank you.
	And Peter, with respect to keeping it alive, I guess in a way that's what we're doing tonight.
	We have yet another witness, and a lot of people don't know That even though we call it the Phoenix Lights, that night I was taking calls from just over the hill in Las Vegas.
	Massive numbers of calls.
	And we have a Las Vegas witness tonight, don't we?
	We do indeed.
	And the interesting thing about the next witness is that she saw something similar.
	to what Sue and Monica and Stacy just described to us, except it was not on the 13th of March, it was the night
	before, March 12th, Wednesday, that she saw similar objects going
	over Las Vegas, headed to the east.
	And I'm looking forward to having her share this new information.
	Many people do not realize that this event occurred not just over one state, but over several days in different parts of our country, it appears from my vantage point.
	It was all flat, and we'll cover more of that, but right now, here is Dorothy from Las Vegas, Nevada, just over the hill.
	Hi, Dorothy.
	So, the day before the big Phoenix Lights brouhaha, you saw what, when, and where?
	You're going to have to yell at us.
	You're real close to the phone.
	On March 12th, after 8pm, my neighbor and I were standing outside, talking, and at about between 8.15 and 8.40pm, out on our driveway, I was looking west.
	I noticed out of the corner of my eye several bright lights up in the sky.
	And my neighbor and I looked up and I couldn't believe what we were seeing.
	There was a relaxed V formation of white to off-white or pale yellow light headed our direction.
	And we both couldn't move, gazing up and discussing between each other what we were seeing and agreeing what we were seeing.
	The difference between the Las Vegas sighting, the Las Vegas lights and the Phoenix lights are this.
	There was no substance whatsoever between the Las Vegas lights and there were many more of them in a V shape.
	We could see the night stars and the sky through the formation.
	They kept in cadence in a relaxed V shape and continued directly overhead.
	How many lights?
	I would say well over a dozen.
	A dozen?
	Well over a dozen.
	And they kept a formation of a V. Of a relaxed V. More like a U almost.
	Got it.
	Formation.
	And in cadence.
	Right in step with each other as they came over.
	I would estimate they were probably going 30 to 50 miles an hour when they approached us and went directly overhead east-northeast towards Nellis Air Force Base.
	Well, what about Peter's famous question, the size of your thumb if you hold it out, or your fist?
	Right.
	Also, our formation was quite large.
	Our major intersections on my end of town are one mile apart.
	And at first, when we first saw the lights, I thought, good Lord, it's the size of a couple of football fields wide.
	But as it approached our position and went overhead, I would say it went from Cheyenne to Craig Road.
	It must have been well over a mile wide.
	A cyst doesn't get it.
	As the previous guest mentioned, a newspaper held up in front of your face would probably be about right.
	It was huge.
	It was very wide, very silent.
	It was a silent night on March 12th, anyway, and we strained to hear anything, and with our mouths hanging open, it went directly overhead and just proceeded without pausing.
	That's another difference between us and the Phoenix Lights.
	It did not pause.
	It did not stop.
	It just marked silently overhead and continued east-northeast.
	Peter, did you get many reports from the Las Vegas area that night?
	No.
	In fact, I got only one or two, Art, and that's the mystery of this thing, is how something like that can go over a major city at between 8.14 and 8.40 p.m., and we get only one light.
	There are many, many things about my job that are more a mystery than anything else.
	And I don't understand how that can happen, except to say, after what we just heard from the Phoenix area, it occurs to me that huge objects can go over a major U.S.
	city and we never hear about it.
	Well, I think I know why.
	And I've said this many times, and I'll say it again.
	People going about their daily lives, whether they're in a vehicle or they're You know, in the middle of some kind of job or doing a task or whatever, they look straight ahead.
	If they're driving, they look at the road, they look at the cars, they look at a lot of things, but they don't look at the sky.
	And even if they're walking, they tend not to look at the sky.
	People look at what's in front of them, not above them.
	And I honestly think that's how it happens, Peter.
	I don't know what other possible explanation there could be.
	Yeah, I know.
	Now, probably many of our listeners are saying, well, there's a good likelihood that Dorothy is mistaken on the date.
	And I'd like her to address that issue.
	In fact, she probably remembers when she and I first talked back in March of 97, I assumed, and I assumed in error, that she had gotten the date wrong in citing March 12th.
	I assumed that she had just skipped a day, as we often do.
	Could you tell us, please, Dorothy, how can you be sure that it was March 12th, that Wednesday night, and not March 13th?
	March 12th is my brother's birthday.
	There you go.
	He had been at my home a few hours earlier, having cake and ice cream and taking a picture, and it was a couple hours after he had left when this whole thing occurred.
	And the next night, and after this fighting, I might add, I ran in and called Nellis Air Force Base, The airman that answered said he was in the basement, so he probably couldn't see anything anyway, and directed me to the UFO reporting, the National UFO Reporting site.
	And then I called KLAS-TV Channel 8 locally, and they hadn't seen anything.
	So I did call you, and then March 13th, the Phoenix Light sightings, and of course I always listen to Art Bell.
	I was listening to the program, and I could not believe what I was hearing.
	It sounded like the same thing, you know, 24 hours after what I had seen, exactly, nearly.
	So, March 12th was his birthday.
	There's no doubt about it.
	I know you questioned me over and over, and I was getting a little irritated because I know what I saw, and I, well, I don't know what I saw, but I know I saw something, but I know when I saw it.
	Yes, and you got a good look at it, and the object you saw in that huge formation, Dorothy, Were they self-luminous, or is there any possibility that they might have been, for example, migratory birds in a wedge-shaped formation?
	Oh, that's hilarious.
	Peter, no, I don't know if they were luminescent, because that's light emission without heat.
	they were more almost, maybe they were bioluminescent for all I know,
	but they were rather lustrous or brilliant like bright pearl.
	Of course, strangely, months later, the entire United States media woke up
	to what happened over a major US city and they broke the news just like it had happened the day before, the damnedest thing you ever saw.
	From my perspective, having covered it, and then having been astounded at nothing happening, just complained bitterly on the air about it, and then three months later, just like somebody threw a switch and damned us.
	Anyway, we're going to enter a different phase of the show now with our guest, who is Peter Davenport from the National UFO Reporting Center.
	By the way, I want to stop for a second here, and I want to say, look here folks, the National UFO Reporting Center is a resource That backs up the kind of work we do here.
	It's a non-profit, Washington non-profit deal, and you know, it's a doggone thankless job, and it's not remunerated, it's not The only reason it even exists is because Peter pulls money out of his own pocket, something he absolutely ought not have to do.
	And so I'm asking you to make a donation to the organization that feeds us information on what the hell's going on out there.
	And I really mean out there.
	So if you care about it, you'll dig into your wallet a little bit and send whatever you can to Peter Davenport.
	Peter, how do they do it?
	Yeah, well, thank you for that, Art, and I'll give an address.
	I'll give them a few seconds to get a writing implement.
	We really appreciate those contributions.
	They help us provide email and the website service and long distance and all of the expenses that we have.
	Well, you're yanking it out of your own pocket.
	Peter, how long have you been doing this now?
	I've been doing this for almost 12 years, Art.
	And to be honest with you, I wish I'd never heard about a UFO.
	But this job has hooks on it.
	Yeah.
	And once you start taking these calls and talking to people like Dorothy and Sue Watson and Stacy Rhodes and you hear their stories, how can you turn your back on this and say, well, I've had enough?
	I know these things are real, you have seen them too, and I think it is crucially important that my fellow citizens, the American people, understand that this appears to be going on And the press and their government is saying nothing or very little about it.
	And so without you, without this program to get it out, it would be, it almost wouldn't exist.
	And that's how important this is.
	So if they can afford to send a few bucks, and that's all it takes is a lot of people sending a few bucks, where would they send it?
	They can send it to the National UFO Reporting Center, or NUFORC is the short form, NUFORC.
	The second line is P.O.
	Box 45623.
	That's P.O.
	Box 45623.
	The third line is University Station.
	That's a post office here in the Seattle area.
	University Station.
	And that's Seattle, Washington.
	Our zip code is 98145.
	is 98145, Seattle, Washington 98145.
	Any contributions go directly into our reporting center It covers our email expenses, long distance, all of the expenses we have to bring this precious information to the Coast audience and to other audiences as well.
	I hope they do it, because it really is that important.
	And now we're going to move kind of into another segment of the program, still sticking with the whole Phoenix Lights thing, but into the area where we're going to talk to some experts about it.
	We have a doctor, physician, Dr. Lynn Kitai, and perhaps you can tell me something about her, Peter.
	That's right.
	She has been one of the most remarkable investigators of the Phoenix Lights case.
	And before we go to Lynn, or Dr. Lynn, as she likes to be called, I'd just like to say that there are many, many other very good investigators in the Phoenix Lights fray.
	People like Bill Hamilton, who wrote a very nice book that was very, very energetic in collecting information.
	Tom King, Tom Taylor, Richard Motzer.
	Even Francis Barwood should be mentioned in this respect.
	Yes.
	But I thought it would be very interesting to our audience tonight, Art, after they'd heard some of the witnesses, to hear some of the investigators from the Phoenix area who have devoted the last nine years, or certainly a good portion of their lives over the last nine years, to collecting the information from the literally thousands, thousands of witnesses to these events And Dr. Lynn is certainly one of those who's not only done that and done it in spades, but has written a book and has produced at least one very nice film, which will be airing in the Phoenix area tomorrow.
	I hope she'll talk about that.
	But with that, she's perfectly capable of introducing herself.
	sharing with our audience what she's done over the last year.
	Why don't we just go to her?
	Alright, Dr. Lynn Kitai.
	Doctor, welcome to the program.
	I'm really curious why a physician, how a physician, what kind of doctor are you?
	Actually, that's a great question and I have to say before I get into that, that you guys are so fabulous.
	Peter, Art, everyone that was involved with the investigation, because I stayed anonymous for seven years, I'll get into that, but It's teamwork here and to get the word out there and to keep this precious information, as Peter phrased it, which is precious information alive, is so important and that's why I finally came forward.
	I have been involved not only with private practice and I was chief clinical consultant At the Arizona Heart Institute's Imaging and Wellness Center, which I gave up this past summer to complete the documentary.
	Wow.
	But my life's work, and it's really ironic, for over 30 years has been community education.
	My undergraduate work is in education.
	I started doing health tips for NBC in Philadelphia in 76, and here as well in Phoenix and USA Cable, and then started a company to produce video and workbook curriculums.
	On vital health issues, the reality of AIDS and teen pregnancy and substance abuse.
	And I have to say that when this fell in my lap, it was actually started two years before the mass sighting.
	My husband, who's also a physician, and I had a very close sighting to our home.
	It was mountainside in Paradise Valley, and I happened to get pictures of it at the time, but had no interest or knowledge of this at all.
	And this is in a private, gated area, so when anybody brings up military, I immediately go back to the 95 sighting, which is Well, I'll go into a little detail here.
	And it was such an incredible experience, which I go into detail in the book and the
	documentary.
	Well, I'll go into a little detail here.
	What happened in 95?
	In 95, my husband, one wall of our bedroom is a window.
	So we enjoy a panoramic view of the city skyline, and we know what planes look like and helicopters
	and streetlights and so forth.
	And he called, and he's head of different boards, medical boards and so forth.
	So nothing alarms him.
	And he sounded alarmed.
	He says, get over here quick.
	And I jumped out of a bath to go to the window with a towel, and here I'm dripping wet, looking at three amber orbs in a triangle formation, like a pyramid, one on top and two closely aligned underneath.
	And I call them orbs because the light did not extend outside the edge.
	They were self Luminating, and they were mesmerizing, and the light was very different than any other light I had ever seen.
	It was a uniform amber color.
	The guests before, the witnesses, were talking about an amber color.
	They were definitely amber, that's how I would describe it.
	Uniform, not with a hot spot, like a light bulb, but uniform throughout.
	Very soft, very mesmerizing, and I knew if I didn't get A picture of it, nobody would believe me, and as I go running to the closet to catch my camera, my husband calls me back to the window and says, get over here quick.
	One of them is disappearing, and as we're watching, the top orb, without budging, and there were three distinct objects, you could see three distinct objects, about three to six feet each, they were about a hundred yards from our home, a little below us, because we're high in the mountain, the top orb started to dim, as if on a dimmer switch.
	It didn't budge.
	from the other two.
	It was extraordinary, and it seemed, after it did dissipate, that it was still there.
	That was the feeling.
	But we couldn't see it anymore, and I got out on the balcony, I shot a picture of the two lower orbs, and it took me a long time to admit this, and the first person I admitted it to was Jim Delatoso, who will be with us shortly.
	But it seemed not only that there was a total silence, it was very eerie, as if time had stopped, But it also seemed that there was an intelligent presence watching me, just as intently as I was looking at these two bottom orbs.
	And the next thing I remember, the left bottom orb started to disappear, and I quickly shot a picture of that, and that was the only picture that turned out at the time, but it was monumental for me because it verified that we did see something unusual.
	I did get a picture of it, but I didn't know what to do with it.
	I knew nothing about this topic or anyone involved with it, so I just wondered.
	So that's what got you involved.
	Well, what really got me involved was two years later, the lights came back again.
	Oh, no, no, no.
	I know.
	Hold on to that for a moment.
	We're paying for earlier misattention.
	We're going to take another break, and when we come back, we'll move on from what did get her.
	And you know that'll do it, folks.
	As it did with me.
	Once you've seen something and you've seen it close up, it changes your life.
	Once again, Dr. Lynn Kitai. And doctor, it's always fascinating to know what gets somebody involved.
	And of course, Peter Davenport back as well. And that obviously would have done the trick.
	I had a very similar experience, and your life just changes now.
	You said you worked, sort of, well, you did because I've not heard your name until now, so then when the Phoenix Lights came along, you jumped all over it, apparently, and began an investigation, is that correct?
	Well, there's so much more to the story than March 13th.
	Actually, two months before the mass sighting, the lights came back.
	And, of course, the two years in between, I did wonder what this advanced technology was, if I would ever find out what we saw, what it was all about.
	Right.
	And I hear the lights come back, but at a distance.
	And I started documenting them again on film.
	As a scientist, I guess I just felt compelled to do so.
	And the second night of which, which is really interesting and very poignant, Uh, the same formation appeared in the same location as would happen...
	Two months later, on March 13th, and I happened to catch this phenomenon head-on turning into a beast.
	Six pictures in a row.
	It was so unnerving because it was a massive span of these orbs in an equidistant formation that the next morning I called around, found air traffic controllers at the airport who saw the same thing, admitted to me that they were in airspace, that it did not show up on radar, and moved in tandem.
	In their own words, there were lights that seemed to be attached to something.
	But they couldn't quite see what it was attached to, moving very slowly behind South Mountain.
	Doctor, could you see any form within the lights at all?
	No, I could not.
	But when you look at the pictures themselves, and anybody that's interested in taking a peek at some of the pictures that I took, because I have a plethora of pictures that I've actually gone...
	To great lengths to have explained to me, University of Arizona, Arizona State University, Brooks Institute of Photography, and across the board, and Jim will share as well, I've been told that no one ever has taken 35mm and video from the same vantage point prior to, during, and after.
	Where can they see them?
	My website is www.thephoenixlights.com One word.
	Dot net.
	Make sure it's dot net.
	W-W-W dot the Phoenix Lights.
	Plural.
	Dot net.
	Dot net.
	Got it.
	I'd like to take a peek at the two minute trailer of our documentary as well, which I'll talk about in a sec, but it really changed my life.
	I hope it will not change your sight.
	We bring many of them down and there's going to be a lot of people headed there right now.
	Alright, so, you investigated for a very long time, not only as a witness and somebody taking photography, but as an investigator.
	So, what have you concluded, Doctor?
	Well, actually, it wasn't until a week after the mass sighting, and I happened to catch one of the handful of videos that night of the three lights over the city.
	It wasn't until a week later when I saw Jim Delatoso on the news with my video because I happened to walk into an investigator's home to take a look at my picture from 95 and the other data that I had been accumulating because I was just so curious.
	I wanted somebody to give me an answer and someone of credence to take a look at it.
	Yes.
	And right away the news was badgering him for information.
	I said, hey, this isn't about me.
	Well, please take a sample of my video and share it with the news people.
	And my video ended up on all the stations.
	A week later, I see it there as well with Jim Delatoto showing the same amber orbs and triangle formations from all over the world.
	That was the first I heard of it.
	That really blew me away.
	Now, not only have thousands of people who were purposely looking up at the sky that evening at the Hellbob Comet, I saw this, the same thing that I had been seeing, but this was happening worldwide.
	I had no idea.
	And that really set me on a journey where I pushed my entire professional life aside for four years to try to find a logical source and meaning for what I had witnessed and photographed.
	I had yet to find it.
	If anything, my meticulous inquiry really opened up a whole new world to me that eventually I felt obliged to share.
	And so I did.
	I finally gave up my medical career.
	That's astounding.
	You would give up a medical career to pursue this.
	Have you come to any conclusions about what that was?
	Well, actually, I don't know what it is, but I know that it is.
	And I have the evidence to prove that, you know, it still hasn't been explained to me.
	And I've gone to extreme lengths to have it Explain to me, and it cannot be denied, and when you really look at the whole picture, and of course, I'm sure many of your listeners know that there is a history to this.
	I found out certainly when I started lecturing with the book, especially with children.
	I mean, there is a chunk of history missing from our history books.
	And I hope with the book and now the documentary, because of my other work that I've done for
	so many years producing video and workbook curriculums, I also felt compelled to make
	a documentary.
	Once again, we're about done here.
	Dr. Lynn Kitai and Doctor, I wanted to give you one more opportunity because it's coming up.
	Well, is it actually tomorrow?
	It's on Sunday?
	Tomorrow.
	Tomorrow we're celebrating the 9th anniversary of the Phoenix Flats mat slating event.
	The Arizona slating event with our own internationally award winning, by the way.
	I didn't even mention that.
	We've been... So again, hold on a sec.
	Are you talking about Sunday or Monday?
	Sunday.
	Sunday.
	Okay, I just want to be sure of that and I want to give you a chance to tell people again where and when.
	It's going to be at the Harkin Shea Movie Theater on Scottsdale Road in Shea.
	We have a 1 o'clock, 4 o'clock and 7 p.m.
	screening.
	The DVD is also available.
	The original Collectors DVD, While They Last, is available through our website, ThePhoenixLights.net, and maybe be kind enough to post that if people can't get on it right now.
	ThePhoenixLights.net, and we've updated it, and we're having an exclusive showing tomorrow.
	We have not only added children, which of course is our passion, but I also had three recent sightings this summer, May, June, and August 30th, which was Really profound for me, because it was the same exact formation as we're finishing up production.
	The same week we're finishing up production, the same three lights that I photographed, videotaped on March 13th, 1997, appeared again August 30th.
	All right.
	Doctor, we're way short of time, so we're going to have to run, but I wish you luck with the screening tomorrow.
	Thank you.
	And thank you so much for having me.
	And I have to say, too, that Jim Delatoso and Mike Tanner I salute them because I couldn't be here if it wasn't for them.
	They were absolutely fabulous and I look forward to hearing from them.
	It really does take teamwork and there's a wonderful team with Peter and Jim and Mike and others.
	have really helped to get the word out and keep this alive.
	Alright, Doctor.
	Thank you so very much.
	And let's do exactly that, Peter.
	Let's move now to Dr. Michael Tanner.
	That's PhD.
	And Jim Dilottoso.
	I'm not sure who we've got on the line, whether we have one or both right now.
	Who's here?
	This is Jim.
	I'm here.
	Hi, Jim.
	Hi.
	Good evening, Jim.
	And thanks for staying up into the wee hours of the night.
	I understand you're pretty much a night owl like the rest of us.
	I am.
	This will be the middle of the afternoon to me, so it's good to see you today.
	Let me give a little preface, if I may, Art.
	The two gentlemen we're about to hear on this program, I would say for my money, and I've tracked the Phoenix Lights event very closely for the last nine years, if there are two people who have collected The bulk of evidence that allows us to know what we know about those events, it is Jim Delitoso and Dr. Michael Tanner, who at that time were, back nine years ago, were working together on this case.
	They sacrificed their health and their treasury and their time and their business interests, I suspect, to collect all of the information that has been collected and distributed so nicely.
	But I'm delighted to have these two guys on.
	They are national heroes, in my opinion.
	All right, Jim, can you run through it for us?
	I know there was a tremendous amount of controversy with you.
	There was.
	Way back then.
	Boy, we went through it.
	Well, the basis of it had to do with a simple term, spectrum analysis.
	And it mushroomed into all kinds of other things.
	And I had been involved in spectrum analysis for about 10 years at that point.
	And a lot of people said, you can only use that in astronomy.
	But having been involved in test equipment and measurement and NASA and movie colorizing, I mean, I knew we knew exactly what to do with the finest gear.
	What has happened since then is that the FBI now uses spectral analysis as one of their standards.
	In fact, publishes it on their website called the Spectral Comparator and IEEE and The Air Force Research Labs, and we've just continued, there wasn't any reason to defend myself because the process works.
	I'm not really trying to prove whether they exist or don't exist, I'm trying to understand the data.
	Alright, maybe I should ask then, with your current understanding of the data, what is it that you've documented?
	I have a database of knowns that I've collected since the late seventies.
	Special effects, mistakes in film, airplane lights, flares, etc.
	Sure.
	Like doing fingerprint analysis or blood work, you have a database of knowns.
	You extract the data out of the unknown, compare it so you can get a match or not.
	If we don't get a match, it's an unknown.
	And then we can compare all the unknowns later.
	Well, these lights, under All conditions, Fourier transforms and spectrum analysis, for those of you interested, and computer testing, for those of you that are just wanting to know what we did, cannot possibly be flares.
	There are logistical reasons why we don't believe it's flares, but scientifically, if you go through the steps and measure it, and it's repeatable by anyone that wants to do it, Can't possibly be flares, so we know what it isn't.
	I'm not sure I'm in a position to say I know what it is, but I know it isn't flares, airplane lights, hail bomb.
	Can't be those.
	Right.
	In any of the examinations you did, Jim, were you able to determine form and substance beyond lights?
	I know it's very difficult in photography, but I'm sure you were trying.
	One thing that I had to keep quiet about was the fact that Dr. Lynn existed and that she had film.
	Yeah, she obviously wasn't ready to come forward and actually I've never heard of her until tonight.
	Yeah, but there were two things going on at the same time right then.
	One, we were doing a project with TRW concerning spectrum analysis and spectral analysis software.
	Right.
	Shouldn't have been using it to test these kind of things and talking about it.
	Oh.
	Oh.
	Not have even mentioned the test results from the film in the general categorization of analysis because Lynn didn't want to talk about.
	But at that time, the immediacy of press wanting to know what was going on.
	I'm sure it was crushing.
	And we just went methodically and did it the way that we did it.
	Michael Tanner spent All the free time we had available at Village Labs and put many of our staff people to work on them.
	Michael dealt with interviewing hundreds of people.
	Hundreds.
	Getting the drawings, getting the time and date positions.
	I dealt with the physical evidence.
	How were you two able, you and Dr. Tanner, able to devote these kinds of resources to it?
	I mean, you had a business, right?
	We had a business with About twenty full-time staff people and contractors that work with us regularly designing and installing supercomputer networks.
	So we had sufficient Resources to be able to carve out time and people for things that we thought were important, like doing Moody Blues tours or testing UFO pictures.
	You were working with Dr. Jedi.
	Why did she at that point not want to come forward?
	Was it a career buster or what?
	Yes, and I respected that at that time, as we do most of the time.
	You know, most of the work that we do is not for witnesses, it's for other investigators.
	And we don't publish the results.
	We supply the data just like a lab, and they do what they want with it.
	And we respect their privacy, their copyright ownership, etc.
	And have never, ever taken money for doing the analysis.
	How good was the photography that Dr. Kitai has done?
	I can't get to it.
	Well, I would say it was way above average.
	Right, okay.
	I mean, well thought out, well positioned, good quality equipment, and was very, uh, precise for me to be able to scan the film and look at the orbs themselves at, uh, 9,600 lines per inch is what I would scan them at.
	Well, video, 525 lines is what it's supposed to be across the entire image, which means that the orbs might be 10 to 20 pixels.
	All right.
	So, uh, Jim, if the, um, government told us it was flares.
	Yes.
	That cannot be true.
	That has to be a lie.
	Is that correct?
	A misunderstanding on their part of what the public saw.
	You should be a diplomat, Tim.
	Boy, that's diplomatic, all right.
	The Maryland National Guard was already landed at 830 at Davis-Monthan Air Force Base, according to the public information officer That we spoke to down there, so even if they were out dropping flares, wrong time.
	This happened after 10 o'clock.
	Right.
	There were actually, I think this whole thing was kind of split into two segments.
	One that occurred around 8.30 local time, and another that occurred around 10.
	Is that right, Peter?
	There were events all during that time, but there were clusters of events, and I think you have it right, Art.
	A lot of early ones and then later, a quarter of ten or so.
	Yes, which Michael Tanner has precisely clustered into a taxonomy that reveals that it wasn't one formation or one large ship with orbs breaking away from it.
	They were separate command and control objects going on.
	In the military we call that a cluster flight.
	We call it a fuster flight.
	Which is better than a fuster flight.
	Well, yes.
	Anyway, so gentlemen, Jim, if you had to give a capsule analysis of your findings, which by now you should be able to do, you would say what?
	I would say, logistically, I can't see How and why our government or military would organize and allow something like this to happen and come up with such a weak cover-up later.
	That aside, there's some interesting other things.
	Now, wait a minute.
	A weak cover-up?
	Now, I gave you the opportunity and you came up with misunderstanding and now you're saying weak cover-up?
	Weak cover-up.
	Two months later, the local National Guard spokesman says it was the Maryland National Guard.
	Right then, remember the National Guard is under authority of the governor and our governor had just dressed up like an alien and ridiculed the whole affair.
	I wonder if everybody remembers that.
	That was pretty funny.
	The governor did dress up as an alien and it made fun of the whole thing.
	Was all that orchestrated?
	Was all of that, I guess, obviously it was orchestrated, but I mean, other than for fun, to just sort of put the whole thing under the mat?
	Well, it's possible that he had a sincere intention initially, commensurate with Francis Barwood, to find out what was going on, and someone helped him make up his mind to drop it in an elegant way, and only the court jester can tell the king where to go.
	So, by dressing up like an alien, it was a way to dismiss it gracefully.
	It was one choice.
	Alright, but again, your findings rule out flares and don't rule, really, anything in.
	Is that apparent?
	Well, let's consider one other interesting event.
	Scientific American Magazine, July of that year, reported in a ten-page story that the La Silla Telescope and Hubble Telescope had imaged Very unusual.
	Gamma bursts of radiation, a distant galaxy, and then, apparently, in our solar system.
	How could this be?
	On the night of March 13th.
	Now that's an interesting set of circumstances.
	It is, and one I haven't heard related before.
	I wonder if it is related in some way.
	Well, we must consider all the possibilities That, since we can't get a match in the knowns database, and it's in the category of unknowns, there's where we have the freedom to speculate.
	And if it is interdimensional or extraterrestrial, what would be the dynamics they used to get here?
	Could gamma bursts of radiation be a mechanism to travel great distances quickly and then materialize here along a geophysical line That from millions of miles away, it looks like a ceramic metal oxide semiconductor sliced sideways.
	Okay, well, um, fair speculation.
	I've got it.
	I go to those kinds of speculations only because if we drop it and say, well, maybe it could be extraterrestrial, what were they doing and why?
	What were they thinking?
	All right, if you might put Dr. Tanner on for a moment.
	Thank you.
	Thank you very much, Jim.
	All right, here comes Dr. Michael Tanner, PhD.
	Doctor?
	This is Michael Tanner.
	Hi there.
	Welcome to the program, Doctor.
	Well, thank you, and I need to clarify the degree part.
	I just recently resumed my studies to address the honorary degree that Jim and Dr. Berg gave me at Village Labs for my work there.
	Oh, okay.
	So, physics and math at the present course of study, but in any event, I I left the technology of the testing of the physical evidence to Jim as the expert.
	We've been on cases off and on for many years, starting with the Meyer case in Switzerland in the late 70s, the Tim Edwards case, the famous video taken over Salida, Colorado.
	But I approached this as really doing the field work, narrowing down to the close encounter cases, the reports that Peter supplied us.
	How many people did you interview?
	Well, of the about 800, 900 reports that collectively between Peter's database and Francis Barwood, I would say about 350.
	That's a lot of people to talk to.
	It really It began to develop into such an extraordinary, compelling picture that it required full-time work for a number of months and then continuing, ongoing updating as new information came in.
	But really, I would like the listeners and for all to understand, I approach this as pretty much every man on the street meet with people eye-to-eye and see their vantage point, what they saw, I selected the close encounter cases and those witnesses who have specific reasons to know exactly what time they witnessed what they did, where they were exactly.
	How much agreement in all of these witnesses was there and what was seen?
	Well, the problem was, and as Peter will tell you, he's got a tremendous database of information, illustrations of all kinds of They generally view formations of lights, but in the fine detail began to be a very confusing picture.
	And it wasn't until I was able to gather a number of witnesses up in the Prescott area and getting them together and realizing clearly that they saw separate objects and how they seemed to converge into the Prescott area and then head toward Phoenix and down the I-17 corridor.
	And beyond to I-10 between Phoenix and Tucson.
	How many people did you run into that described something as dramatic as being so close that they could describe seams in the craft?
	Did you run into any of those people?
	Well, there were dozens of people as I was able to sort them out.
	And as little as 200 feet above the heads to 1,000 feet were The size of craft, and I think it was probably the same one that went over Stacey Rhodes and her family, where the craft was so low that beings were seen silhouetted in the windows.
	Beings in the windows?
	Yes.
	And in the ground track for that particular craft, the lights on the edges of the craft variously alternated with glimpses of rows of windows.
	Oh my gosh.
	Doctor, how many people saw something of that magnitude?
	Because, you know, that's first for me.
	I had not heard the window part and beings.
	How many did you talk to who said that?
	There were probably four sets of witnesses that saw it, I believe.
	We're talking about two separate craft in that instance.
	Once again, Peter Davenport and of course Dr. Michael Tanner.
	That stopped me cold, doctor, when you said you talked to witnesses who saw windows and beings behind the windows.
	Was there any description of them?
	I mean, how much detail was there?
	Well, they weren't quite low enough to determine what kind of beings, but they were at least humanoid from the descriptions that we got.
	Wow.
	But let me back up or rise above, so to say, and look at the bigger picture that began to emerge.
	I believe if you look at all the data we've collected, and believe me, there's still a whole lot more yet to be discovered.
	There's probably thousands of people that have information that haven't stepped forward or reported in any other way.
	This appeared to be a very purposeful, even elegant operation.
	That was twofold.
	It was clearly a demonstration of sorts to the government through the military of a technology that's so far beyond anything we're capable of, and I include anything the Black Operation, so to say, or Groom Lake, or anywhere else under a human operation.
	So it had nothing to do with any kind of military opposition or That sort of thing at all.
	Would you agree with that, Peter, that what we had in Phoenix was a demonstration?
	That's an interesting word.
	Yeah.
	I have considered that in years past.
	It's clear to me that the objects that went over Phoenix were not of man's manufacture.
	I feel very comfortable in going that far.
	Whether it was a purposeful demonstration or not, In order to answer that, having been born in Missouri, I'd want to talk to the occupants of those crafts.
	Fortunately, I didn't have the opportunity to do that.
	Let me cite some examples here.
	Before I go on, the other aspect of the two-fold purpose was this was also simultaneously a sort of parade for the citizens.
	But the demonstration aspect began to be very clear to me.
	As we saw the number of instances of jets coming out of Luke Air Force Base primarily to intercept these craft.
	First off, we look at the orbs that came into the state from the direction of Henderson and as Peter began to get reports from Kingman and Pauldin just moving down the state.
	We have a formation of orbs that were described by Prescott witnesses like giant fireflies.
	They had an organic aspect to them.
	They were blue-white as they entered that area.
	As they left the Prescott area, they changed to a shade of yellow.
	By the time they got to the edge of Phoenix, they were amber and they were in fact videotaped going across the valley at some distance by a retired military Air Force man who said they were like nothing he'd ever seen before.
	Alright, may I just interrupt briefly to ask Peter, can you confirm that chase aircraft were sent up, because I'm wondering why the military would send chase planes up after their own flares?
	Yeah, isn't that an interesting aspect of all of this?
	Well, yeah.
	I've, on coast to coast in years past, played that tape of my conversation with the U.S.
	Air Force Airmen Who called the National UFO Reporting Center about eight hours after the Phoenix Lights event began.
	And it's clear that the Air Force was thrown into a tizzy over all of this.
	Over their own flares.
	Over their... They knew that whatever it was that was happening was not of their making.
	And it was foreign to their operations.
	Well, as we proceed, the orbs went to, by the time they were halfway between Phoenix and Tucson, they changed to a shade of red and just short of Tucson, they split up and went in different directions.
	Meanwhile, and I believe from the information so far, that the F-15s that Peter refers to as the ground crewmen talked about probably intercepted or attempted to intercept the orb formation.
	There are several sets of witnesses that emerged to back up a neighbor to the Luke Air Force Base that said there were six to eight sorties or flights of jets that went out on that date, on that night primarily.
	We have Bill Greiner, the truck driver, who emerged early on, who paced a pair of Orbs that as they drew closer to Luke Air Force Base and then hovered, one of them virtually over the base, was like a hot air balloon in shape without the basket as he described it.
	And as two jets, then a third one coming behind it, did a steep bank and arc directly toward this object.
	It shot straight up and disappeared.
	Another set of witnesses described a giant triangle that hovered over The Deer Valley Airport area, which is North Phoenix, and they witnessed two jets coming from the direction of Luke attempting to intercept this craft.
	And instead of disappearing or moving as the others did, it held its ground and the jets had to veer away to avoid a collision.
	Well, I think Michael is probably the one to answer that.
	trailing a paperwork uh...
	i mean when they start scrambling planes like that it's costly there ought to be
	a freedom of information act request or something that could confirm they
	scrambled well i think michael is probably the one to answer that uh...
	he was much closer to the investigation
	it is clear to me that he knows much more about the specifics
	alright michael going on that night Well, in the word of one officer that spoke obviously off the record, he said it was the worst night of his military life.
	He said it was sheer pandemonium at Luke Air Force Base.
	And with the events that actually started for the military about 5.30 in the afternoon, and later that night, two other Sets of witnesses saw a craft being intercepted by jets.
	Not only do we have these witnesses confirming the military action, we have also, over Crown King in the mountains just north of Phoenix, a demonstration of what appears to be some kind of interdimensional capability.
	Is there any indication we fired on these craft?
	No.
	By all accounts, this was as if there were war games going on with no shots fired.
	It was as if there was cooperation on both sides, but if we can believe the ground crewmen, there certainly was not cooperation.
	So much from the military side is that they were just withheld from really doing anything.
	There was no reason to fire, but only to intercept and investigate.
	But as the Crown King event was affirmed by an early event over Lake Mead earlier in that day and two weeks later near the Kennedy Airport, these craft went into a really strange routine of rolling and tumbling and going into a ball and disappearing.
	After over Crown King, three of these giant carpenter squares to describe, to give the description One witness in the Central Phoenix of the shape of these craft, a fourth object appeared next to them as they were hovering as first a bright amber light that morphed, if you will, into a triangle or a square.
	Witnesses couldn't quite tell if they were three corners or four, but as the four objects were observed, then going into vertical formation, they began to compress upon each other, rolling into a ball as they described Disappeared within a second or two, two jets were seen coming from the south to apparently try to intercept something that was not there any longer.
	The Lake Mead event involved eight of these objects in formation that went into a similar routine when apparently a commercial airliner got close enough to prompt it.
	And the Kennedy Airport area incident involved two craft that merged and became one, which speaks to Uh, witnesses describing the Phoenix Lights event, an area of a triangle going away in the direction of Tucson, splitting into two craft, and then we have halfway between Phoenix and Tucson, an area called Picacho Peak, two craft coming together as if they're 747s about to collide and they merge and become one.
	Wow.
	Boy, looking back on this now and hearing what you're saying, having interviewed all those witnesses, is just mind-blowing.
	Absolutely mind-blowing.
	And it seems like all of this ought to be put together somehow in one large documentary and simply presented to the American people as a major incident over a major American city.
	Well, Jim and I have been working on this the rest of the story, if you will.
	Dr. Kitai has done a wonderful job of Focusing on the orbs and presenting a great deal of evidence for their existence and their reality, we have spent a lot of time trying to make sense of the rest of the story.
	Just to do an animation of the nature that's required, it's going to take a feature film budget to do it properly.
	In any event, we're dedicated to that purpose and hopefully by the 10th anniversary we'll have something to share.
	of a highly compare compelling nature of a doctor i cannot thank you enough for being here tonight you really really added to the uh... the whole picture of the phoenix lights a lot of things that uh... nobody simply as heard before so thank you for being here you're welcome and uh... and good night uh... that's uh... dr michael tanner and uh... peter uh... peter i've got a whole lot of questions for you if you wouldn't mind absolutely right this is going to take us off track I'm getting a lot of email about this, and I want to give you a chance to answer it, all right?
	A little controversy never hurt us.
	This comes from Mike in Auburn, Washington.
	What I want to write to you about tonight, this was an email, are my suspicions about your guest Peter Davenport, who's going to be your guest tonight.
	You see, I heard James Gilliland tell someone at his ranch that he believes that Peter Davenport still works for the U.S.
	government.
	James Gilliland was saying he's invited Peter Davenport to come out to his ranch and observe UFO Skywatch some night many, many times, but Peter's refused all attempts to get him to come to Gilliland's sanctuary and observe UFOs which routinely fly over the ranch.
	We heard from him recently, and so he would like that answered.
	He's also suspicious that you were a Russian language interpreter for the U.S.
	government and thinks you still There are a lot of targets there I could take pot shots at.
	Go right ahead.
	Let me start with the government angle.
	I do not work for the U.S.
	government.
	I would not work for the U.S.
	government.
	They are the adversaries.
	I almost said bad guys.
	I'll refrain from using that term.
	They are my adversaries in the field of UFO work.
	In years past, in programs past, in incautious moments, I have probably stated or used the term lie, which has a hard edge to it, of course, in referring to the U.S.
	government's position on UFOs.
	I think a more accurate representation is that They are simply not addressing the issue.
	They are simply not sharing with the American people, who pay their bills, of course, and for whom they work as public officials, they're not sharing this information with the American public.
	I would like to know why.
	That takes us into a whole other... Well, it does, and Peter, the only explanation I've ever heard is that the U.S.
	government concluded, along with other governments in the world, that whatever these are, And they don't deny their existence.
	They simply say they're not a threat to U.S.
	national security.
	And I find that worth a chuckle or two, because if things are traversing our airspace, and we don't know what they are, and we can't stop them, and that does not constitute a threat to national security, then what the hell does?
	One of the things we haven't touched on tonight with any of our guests is how many How many airports?
	How many control zones?
	How many terminal control areas for class B airspace?
	These objects went through in violation of the Federal Aviation Regulations.
	With you all the way, my friend.
	But clearly a risk.
	Back for a second to Gillen.
	I don't want to go away without having you answer that.
	You know, he makes incredible claims.
	He's got some incredible photographs and evidence, and I did interview him not long ago, and he apparently has invited you many times, and so why not?
	Well, I've been invited down there.
	There have been many times.
	In the late nineties, I was serving as executor for a late-onset state back in New Jersey.
	You may remember I actually did a program or two from New Jersey.
	I was very busy back then.
	I recall.
	And many of my colleagues, many of my friends from Seattle, were going down to the ranch.
	It's just something that I could not fit into my schedule.
	And I was willing to leave it to other people to go down, look at the evidence, see what people were seeing.
	I can't rule out that they might have been seeing or might have seen a few UFOs down there.
	It's quite possible.
	The witnesses are impressive.
	Everywhere.
	Well, maybe what they should do is what everybody else does and call you up.
	So there you are.
	I wanted to get that answered.
	A lot of people are asking that question.
	He's made it very public, apparently.
	You know that he's invited you down there.
	I think there have been suggestions from that camp that I've worked for the NSA or the CIA or the FBI or the alphabet soup of government agencies.
	Uh, if that is their belief, I would invite them to come forward with their evidence, uh, so it can be analyzed and tested and so on and so forth.
	It's simply not true.
	Just not true.
	And, moreover, I would cite the fact, what purpose would there be for me to work for the U.S.
	government in... I've put, I think, about 38,000 UFO reports on the National UFO Reporting Center website.
	So if the government's objective is to cover up the UFO phenomenon, that would be an awfully bizarre act on the part of somebody in sympathy with that effort.
	Well, it would seem so, but I mean, they use the word disinformation and... Well, that's why I have guests on.
	I invite them on to speak their own piece.
	That's very important for me.
	So people don't think it is just I who is representing these things.
	They can hear Sue Watson and Stacey Rhodes and Dorothy from Las Vegas, and they know that these people are, they can just hear in their voices that they're sincere.
	Why does ufology have such a tendency to self-immolate?
	I don't know.
	It's part of the reason I work alone.
	of course, although I find I'm arguing with myself more and more, talking to myself, even
	though there's just one of me here.
	Well, there is, though.
	There's so much division, there's so much controversy and just downright meanness sometimes
	between those who are in a small chuckle field anyway, and so they hurt their own cause.
	I've wondered about this since the first year I began covering this sort of thing.
	It is troublesome to me, too, and I find I oftentimes just withdraw from it because I
	am so busy that I do not have the time and therefore don't have the desire to get involved
	in some kind of internecine battle in the ranks of ufology.
	I just, all I do is provide a conduit for people who believe they may have seen an unusual event, possibly UFO related, to send that information to a facility where it will be preserved and where it will be made available anonymously in the public forum.
	In all these years, Peter, do we know anything more about the motivations of those who show themselves to us?
	I don't believe I do.
	Perhaps there are other UFO investigators out there who do, but it is more a mystery to me what is going on in ufology than it was 12 years ago when I took over the hotline.
	I have no idea what's going on.
	So it's caused more questions than it has provided answers.
	That's what I see from my vantage point.
	The only focus that I've seen occur is in the minds of serious investigators focusing on the U.S.
	government and its motives in all of this.
	Yes.
	And I will be honest, it's a very, very difficult thing for me to talk about without a great deal of cautious preparation.
	But what worries me is the possibility, worries me more than anything else, Is the possibility of cooperation in some form that we cannot even imagine between these objects, these presumably alien creatures, and the U.S.
	government?
	Indeed.
	hold it right there there has been a
	menace amount of interest uh... peter in the top seas case and so if you would
	please would you review that case And I want everybody to listen to this very closely.
	This is ominous stuff.
	It'll curl your hair.
	I don't know that we've ever talked about this one in any depth, Art, but it's the one that really curdles my blood.
	I am quick to admit that I don't know what happened there, but Just a thumbnail sketch of what we know is the following.
	Please.
	On a Sunday morning about 5 a.m., and this was on the 4th of August, 2002, so we're kind of just almost four years ago, a gentleman left his home in Northumberland County, Pennsylvania on a four-wheel vehicle, an ATV, all-terrain vehicle, headed up about four or five miles to his family land on Mount Montour.
	He was going up there.
	Originally, he was going to go with a hunting buddy.
	They were going to scope out populations of deer up on the mountain in preparation for deer season in Pennsylvania.
	Well, he did not show up at home when he was scheduled to later that Sunday, and his wife called the authorities, submitted a missing persons report, and before the day was out, some 200 people In a search party, we're searching for Mr. Sees, and in fact, they very, very quickly found his all-terrain vehicle up very close to the top of Mount Montour.
	I think it was on his land.
	On the back of this vehicle, it is reported in the newspapers, they found his outer garments, neatly folded, I am led to believe, lying on the back of the all-terrain vehicle.
	Yes.
	It is reported that one of his boots Was found tangled in the top of a tree, perhaps 60 feet off the ground or so.
	Really?
	All very strange stuff.
	I'll say.
	Now, what, I didn't, I didn't know any of this.
	I knew nothing about this case, uh, until probably about the 25th of August, roughly three weeks later.
	And somebody sent me an email saying, why aren't you pursuing this case?
	And I said, what case are you talking about?
	The person elected to remain anonymous, but I had an email address, and the person shot back saying, well, the case of Todd Sees, of course, you have a report on your website about this incident.
	And I went to our reports, and lo and behold, there was a report that was so bizarre that I had posted it, but I presumed that it was a hoax.
	It was a report to the effect that four grown men Had seen a disc hovering above Mount Montour, and a shaft of light connecting the disc to the top of the mountain, and a man's body being floated up into the disc.
	Wow.
	And I went back and looked at that report, and looked at it from a different perspective now, because Mr. Todd Seas was searched for all that Sunday, You know, they did not find him.
	In fact, they had horses, they had tracking dogs, and the tracking dogs could, it is reported in the newspaper, I believe, not even the tracking dogs could find a scent of Mr. C's leading from his all-terrain vehicle.
	Perhaps that's because he went vertical.
	Exactly.
	That was very unusual in the minds of the search party members.
	Well, the shoe's 60 feet in the tree.
	Was Mr. Sees ever found?
	Also unusual.
	He was.
	His remains were found quite tragically.
	And they were found suspended in underbrush according to the information available to me.
	He had a very unusual object clamped to his upper arm.
	I don't know what that object was, but people who saw it said it was very unusual.
	He was clad only in his undergarments.
	And it is reported to our center here in Seattle that the remains were so badly mutilated that apparently even perhaps his son could not recognize the remains as having been those or being those.
	Oh, good lord.
	Have you been able to confirm?
	Well, most, yeah, I have.
	I'm anticipating what you're about to say, but all of what I have said Has been in the local newspapers back in Northumberland County, Pennsylvania.
	There were probably approaching a dozen articles about this case in the local newspapers.
	Oh my God, that's human mutilation!
	Exactly.
	Human mutilation.
	However, I cannot certify, I cannot guarantee that there's anything unusual about this, I'm assured by the...
	Authorities there locally in Northumberland County that they're in full control of this case.
	The only problem is that I talked to the medical examiner who allegedly performed the autopsy on Mr. C's body.
	Yes.
	And he admitted to me that this was a very unusual case.
	He could not talk about it.
	When I asked him if an autopsy report would ever be published or released, He said no.
	What?
	When I asked him if photographs had been taken of the remains during the process of performing the autopsy, he said yes, but nobody will ever see them.
	Wow!
	And the other interesting aspect about this, which I'm unable to confirm, is that very shortly after these remains were found, and very shortly after the local police had satisfied themselves that they were probably the remains of Mr. Sees, It has been represented to me, and I cannot confirm this, that the FBI was on scene very quickly.
	That they moved the police cordon off, away from the body, even further away.
	Wait a minute, why was the FBI there?
	Well, that's an interesting question.
	It's a local homicide or accidental death of some variety.
	I don't know that foul play was involved, but the mutilation suggests almost certainly there was.
	And it would not have fallen under federal jurisdiction.
	There was no kidnapping across a state line, etc.
	Now it gets even more interesting, Art.
	It is asserted that the some 200 members of that search party, which had Who had just scoured the mountaintop.
	By the way, the body was found very close to Mr. C's house, only about one or two hundred meters from the house he had left at five o'clock that Sunday morning.
	Oh.
	Well, the interesting thing is, it is asserted by people with whom I've corresponded, who allege to have been members of that search party, that all of the members of the search party were ordered to go to a local fire station where they were told that
	under no circumstance would they talk about this case or that search and they
	were taken up there allegedly to have their health checked quote their health uh we're
	Was there any reason given to not be talking about this?
	No, not that I'm aware of.
	Oh, is this weird or what?
	It is a very, very strange story.
	I placed a two or three page summary of just the facts on our website a number of years ago.
	It's generated a great deal of interest, a great deal of controversy.
	I see why.
	And I have no idea what happened to Mr. Sees.
	It's just that it is all very, very strange.
	And I've read in Seattle papers over the last two or three years of similar cases in Philadelphia.
	There have been mutilation cases in Philadelphia, whether they're human related or something else.
	I have no way of knowing.
	I haven't had Well, what hit me were three things.
	The mutilation, of course, but the shoe 60 feet up in a tree, and then his body suspended over brush.
	I mean, come on, folks.
	And then the dogs, four really, the dogs not being able to track from the vehicle.
	So he was taken vertically, a shoe got caught in a tree, and then he was obviously Deposited or dropped from something.
	So, I mean, that adds up, Peter.
	It adds up pretty well.
	It's just that I cannot confirm all of these facts.
	And the reason they can't be confirmed is that the autopsy report was sealed.
	None of the family members of Mr. Sees, of the decedent, were summoned to positively identify the remains.
	In fact, the remains allegedly were returned to the family in, I'm told, a sealed coffin.
	They were forbidden from opening the coffin.
	Good Lord.
	This is just too much.
	There's got to be a way to follow up on all of this with family members.
	I mean, you don't get that from a medical examiner.
	Sorry.
	I mean, by whose order is it not going to be made public?
	Exactly.
	And my suspicion is there have been things done behind the scenes, probably not in conformity with the law, to cover up this case.
	And people criticize me for not knowing all of the details.
	I would point out that it's very difficult to know all the details of a case like this when the officials, the authorities, are covering them up.
	Well, is it not possible, for example, to follow up on what authority?
	Would the autopsy not be released?
	Absolutely, it would be possible.
	If I were not receiving 50 reports a day, I would have been on this.
	And if it were not on the other side of the country, it was turned over to MUFON.
	And they had a new state director in Pennsylvania, an attorney, interestingly.
	I don't know the details of to what degree he followed this one up, but to the best of my knowledge, no report was ever generated on this one.
	That is unfortunate because the details we have, the facts we have on the face of them are alarming.
	Yes.
	Any of this is true.
	It is a very unusual case and I cannot I cannot conclude, I can't share with our audience that I know what the cause of Mr. C's death was, but on the face of it, it all looks very strange.
	It sure does.
	Alright, I want to touch on this.
	It's a personal thing for you, but I think it is so cool, and so unusual, and so wild.
	Peter is making a bit of a change in his personal life.
	Tell them what you're doing, Peter.
	Well, over the next several months, I presume, I will be moving and moving the National UFO Reporting Center from Seattle out to eastern Washington to a piece of land that, I think I'm safe in saying this, all the documents, all the Required items have gone into escrow.
	Uh-huh.
	To the best of my knowledge, I've been successful in purchasing a decommissioned U.S.
	Air Force ICBM Atlas-E missile site on about 21 to 22 acres.
	Oh my God.
	Out in the middle of a wheat field.
	And this missile silo is how far below ground?
	Well, it's not that far below, and actually it does not have a silo.
	What makes this facility so attractive from the standpoint of rebuilding it, refurbishing it, and living in it or near it?
	All of the rooms are quadrilateral, like tennis courts, but big and solid.
	You're talking about how many square feet underground?
	About 18,000 square feet.
	18,000?
	Big one.
	Do you mean 18,000 or 1,800?
	18,000.
	Oh my God!
	Do you mean 18,000 or 1,800?
	18,000.
	Oh my God.
	It is big.
	And it will give me room to have my own ice skating rink and to once, for the first time
	in a long time, get all of my UFO stuff separated from all of my personal stuff.
	Get all of my books on one bookshelf or at least against one wall.
	Perhaps I will do a future program on coast from the missile room.
	How cool would that be?
	You actually have a missile room?
	I like a control room.
	Do you?
	Do I have a what?
	Do you have an actual control room?
	There is a control room there, but of course all of the equipment has been taken out of it.
	Oh gee, you can't launch, huh?
	So I'll just have to put my own in.
	So the UFO reporting center will run out of perhaps the control room or the missile room or something.
	That is so cool.
	I imagine this big open super strong area with like pipes and a submarine running through it and wiring and all that kind of stuff.
	Is that still there?
	You got it!
	Basements have always been my favorite room in any house I've ever lived in.
	They're cooler.
	I like the smell of concrete.
	This is one of the wildest things I've ever done in my life, but it's a project art that I've been working on actively for four years, and it finally came to fruition after a great deal of frustration.
	So your secret dream then was to own a missile silo?
	Yeah, that's what I got.
	I'm going to move out there.
	It's got its own water supply, two wells, pump up to 500,000 gallons a day.
	I hope to have my own power system.
	Frankly, it is a vote on my part, a vote of the level of confidence I have in our public officials to keep this country on track.
	Well, let me tell you, brother, when you own a missile silo, your neighbors don't screw with you.
	Yeah.
	I'm keeping my eye open at Boeing Surplus here in Kent for a used missile, just as a political statement.
	Well, I was considering for a while purchasing, you can buy these big rockets.
	Now, you can't buy some aspects of them without a license, but you can buy these big rockets, and I was going to put one on my front lawn.
	There you go.
	Just sort of a statement, you know?
	So, perhaps something like that would be in order.
	What will we see topside, like a concrete bunker?
	Well, there's not much you can see topside.
	The most visible part of it is the blast door, which is a vertical door.
	Let's live the science.
	My understanding is it weighs about 70,000 pounds.
	My back door, my screen door is about 70,000 pounds.
	So when somebody, well I guess they can't knock, right?
	So if they push the button and it goes whirr, whirr downstairs, you hit what?
	Hit a button and this steel door slowly starts opening?
	Something like that.
	A blast door?
	Absolutely.
	Oh, that is so cool.
	It is quite something dirty, filthy.
	It is not, it's the ugliest place you'll ever see in your life.
	It's going to take me months to get the place cleaned up, to start getting toilets installed.
	Well, they must have toilets.
	They used to, but all of the interior materials were taken out when these places were decommissioned in 1964.
	I see.
	So all of that has to be Re-engineered, reinstalled, and so on.
	Now, you told me earlier this was during the days when we operated on a 30-minute... In other words, if they were to launch over there, we'd have 30 minutes to get ours in the air before we became obliterated, basically, right?
	Yep, that's exactly it.
	And so when the era of submarines came along, this particular silo became a moot point?
	Obsolete.
	I suspect that the taxpayers paid hundreds of millions of dollars just ...for a few months or a few years of coverage based on the rumor of a missile gap, so-called missile gap, between the Soviets and the Americans.
	That is wild, Peter.
	Alright, we've only got enough time for you to repeat the address, which I'd like you to do, for donations because this is for the UFO Reporting Center, folks.
	It's the only one we've got.
	Like it.
	I'll give the address and I'll give our phone number.
	The address is The National UFO Reporting Center.
	Next line is P.O.
	Box 45623.
	That's P.O.
	Box 45623.
	Third line is University Station, Seattle, Washington.
	And our zip code is 98145.
	is University Station, Seattle, Washington, and our zip code is 98145.
	Box 45623, University Station, Seattle, 98145.
	Our hotline number is area code 206-722-3000.
	For current or recent sightings only, if people would please, I'm being inundated with calls.
	And, of course, I'm going to turn the phone off tonight, so people can call me sometime tomorrow if they wish, or later on Sunday, I should say.
	All right, we'll give the number again.
	The telephone number, the National UFO Reporting Center hotline number is area code 206-722-3000.
	722-3000-206.
	722-3000.
	And our website, where we have an online report form, is ufocenter.com.
	And I'd like to close with an appeal.
	Very quickly.
	Anybody who is in Arizona on the 13th of March, 1997, if they saw those things, please submit a report.
	All right, buddy.
	We're out of time.

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