Peter Davenport and Art Bell examine the Phoenix Lights (March 13, 1997), a massive, silent boomerang-shaped craft blocking stars over Arizona, with eyewitnesses like Sue Watson and Stacy Rhodes describing lights, seams, and erratic movement. Dr. Lynn Kitai’s 1995–2006 sightings of self-luminous orbs, confirmed by air traffic controllers but off-radar, challenge official flare explanations. Jim DeLaToso’s spectrum analysis rejects military claims, while unconfirmed reports of Mr. C’s mutilated body near a mountaintop hint at vertical transport or cover-ups. Davenport relocates the National UFO Reporting Center to a Cold War-era Atlas E missile site, signaling distrust in authorities. The episode underscores persistent gaps in explaining these phenomena despite decades of witness accounts and scientific scrutiny. [Automatically generated summary]
And we will observe this night the anniversary of the Phoenix Lights, which I think would have to be said to be the second biggest case in ufology after Roswell in 1947.
So we've got witnesses.
We've got new stuff.
We've got a lot of stuff from Peter.
It's going to be an extremely interesting program.
This hour is going to be open line shortly.
Many, many, many of you calling all the time, emailing and asking how I'm doing and so forth and so on.
And I'm doing okay, folks.
I will say this, which is a little mystery, I suppose, but many other times in my life when I've faced severe adversity of some sort or another, you know, I'm a risk taker.
I'm a risk taker.
I've always taken a lot of risks.
I've had a pretty good nose for it.
And usually I've walked away with what seemed like a crazy decision.
However, it turned out quite well.
And always know it'll be so, but I've been very lucky in that regard.
And I may be preparing to make such an upside down, just take my life and throw it upside down.
And that's all I'll say for now.
Let's look quickly at the world news, which is always somewhat depressing.
Slain aid worker apparently was tortured, Baghdad, Iraq.
An American aid worker taken hostage with three other peace activists was apparently tortured before he was shot in the head and the chest and his body dumped near a railroad line in Baghdad, Iraq.
Tom Fox, a 54-year-old member of Christian Peacemaker Teams from Clearbrook, Virginia, was the fifth American hostage killed in Iraq.
There was no immediate word on his fellow captives of Britain, two Canadians.
So this goes on and on.
Threatened civil war there now.
Civil war.
It'd be interesting, if there is a civil war in Iraq, Sunnis, Muslims will just sort of, I guess, stand on the sidelines and wait until they get tired of fighting.
It is said that in a civil war, that's all you can do.
If people are going to decide to kill each other, you can virtually only stand back and wait until they get tired of killing, as in Kosovo and elsewhere.
And they will, eventually.
They get tired of it.
Frist leads informal GOP poll for 08, so we're already looking at the presidential race with home field advantage.
Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist placed first in an informal poll of 2008 presidential hopefuls at a Republican conference Saturday night.
The two-term Tennessee Senator received 526 first-place votes, or 36.9%, in the Southern Republican Leadership Conference's straw poll sponsored by Hotline at Political Digest.
Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney finished second with 14.4%.
Senator George Allen of Virginia third, tied with President Bush, who, of course, cannot seek a third term unless there's a really major change.
In Nepal, now check this out.
A 15-year-old boy whose followers firmly believe that he is the reincarnation of Buddha.
You may have seen him on some specials on Discovery and so forth, has now disappeared after 10 months of meditation in the jungle there.
Followers of Rambadur Bajan reported his disappearance in search parties on Sunday, split up in the jungles of Bura.
It's about 100 miles south of the capital, Kathmandu, to begin investigating.
So he's just gone.
in a moment the the rest of the news is paul would say Your attention, please, at Dames.
Your attention, please, any ham radio operators out there, and your attention, please, everybody else.
When I was a novice, ham, in 1958, long time ago now, we were in, in modern history, the biggest recorded sun cycle we've ever seen.
And it was the most amazing thing I had ever experienced in my life.
I was able to talk to people all over the world using 25 watts.
That's like a 25-watt light bulb, all right?
And I could talk to people anywhere in the world 24 hours a day.
That's what happens when you have a big, strong mother of a sunspot cycle.
And we just haven't had one like it since.
Except, guess what, ladies and gentlemen?
An announcement from NASA.
It is official.
Solar minimum has now arrived.
In fact, sunspots are all but gone.
They are gone.
If you look at the solar disk right now, you'll see nothing but sort of orange sole.
That's all.
Solar flares, non-existent.
The sun is utterly quiet.
But it is the calm before the storm.
This week, researchers announced that a storm is coming.
The most intense solar maximum in 50 years.
The prediction comes from a team led by Matsumi Dikatka of the National Center for Atmospheric Research.
The next sunspot cycle, quoting here, will be 30 to 50% stronger than the previous one, he says.
Make that a she.
Two weeks in a row now.
If correct, the years ahead could produce a burst of solar activity second only to the historic solar max of 1958.
So what they're saying is, new research Is showing that we're going to have the biggest one since 1958, maybe as big or even bigger.
It says the key to the mystery, check this out.
Dick Patkey realized two years ago, is a conveyor belt on the sun.
We have something similar here on Earth called the Great Ocean Conveyor Belt, popularized in the science fiction movie The Day After Tomorrow.
I've heard of that movie.
It's a network of currents that carry water and heat from ocean to ocean.
They have a diagram here showing it.
In the movie, the conveyor belt stops and throws the world's weather into chaos.
The sun's conveyor belt is a current not of water, but of electrically conducting gas.
It flows in a loop from the sun's equator to the poles and back again, just as the great ocean conveyor belt controls weather here on Earth.
This solar conveyor belt controls weather on the sun.
Specifically, it controls the sunspot cycle.
Solar physicist David Hathaway of the National Space Science and Technology Center explains, quote, first remember what sunspots really are, tangled knots of magnetism generated by the sun's inner dynamo.
A typical sunspot exists for just a few weeks, then decays, leaving behind the corpse of weak magnetic fields.
Now enter our conveyor belt.
The top of the conveyor belt skims the surface of the sun, sweeping up the magnetic fields of old dead sunspots.
The corpses are dragged down at the poles to a depth of 200,000 kilometers where the sun's magnetic dynamo can amplify them.
Once the corpses, magnetic knots, as they were, are reincarnated and amplified, they become buoyant and float back to the surface.
Presto new sunspots.
And so through this method of looking at the conveyor belt, they have determined that we are about to have the biggest solar maximum since 1958.
Now, for many of you, that will mean no more than looking at the sky quite frequently in the next many years and noticing that shimmering, beautiful, multicolored aurora that is produced as these monsters hit the earth.
If you're a follower of Ed Dames, you probably are developing a little nervous tick right now, as all of this seems to coalesce around the year 2012.
It'll be 2011 or 2012 when we hit solar max, the absolute max.
Now, of course, when you get a big solar cycle like this, it begins very quickly.
So the good news for ham radio operators and ham radio in general is that as soon as we come out of the pits of the bottom here, it's going to rise very, very rapidly.
And you could again be looking at, well, I kind of always hope that in my lifetime, I would get to experience another solar maximum of the magnitude that we had in 58.
And it looks like I might get my chance.
Be a good time to work on that ham license, folks.
Jittery NASA scientists waited on Wednesday for the most advanced spacecraft ever to send to another planet to make its risky final approach to Mars, where due to return 10 times the data, it'll return 10 times as much data as anything else we've sent out put together.
NASA's unmanned Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter, which has traveled about 300 million miles since leaving Earth in August, is due to enter its most delicate phase today, Friday.
It will ease into orbit around Mars, which has defeated NASA.
That means the United States, Russia, two-thirds of what we've sent to Mars has been met with unfortunate circumstance, and in some cases met with what looked like probes that didn't want it going there.
Now, that's speculative somewhat, but there are photographs showing a giant probe just before a giant ship of some countries, before one of our probes was to go into orbit, and then nothing, just static.
Pretty interesting story out of Argentina.
Ufologist to visit policeman in disappearance case.
Now, policeman recovers and confirms having seen aliens.
I don't want to be taken for a nut, he told a friend.
Two days ago, he claimed seeing two beings with large red eyes, I hate red eyes, who gave him telepathic commands.
Corporal Sergio Puchetta, visibly recovered from the odyssey he underwent about 18 hours, in which he claimed to have some contact with aliens, ratified all of his statements yesterday, and through close friends, asked that he, quote, not be taken for a nut.
Puchetta remains hospitalized in a ward of the medical clinic of the city's Centeno Hospital, indicating he may possibly agree to newspaper requests for an interview on Monday, find out what'll happen, or what did happen rather.
The provincial police corporal responded negatively to this newspaper's request to speak to him and obtain his version of the experience he underwent.
Through a friend, Puchetta, indicated he preferred to be released from the hospital before getting in touch with the press, though he expressed his concerns about having to publicize his experience.
So we're going to hear all about this shortly, but apparently a police officer in Argentina was taken.
The U.S. government, bracing for the possibility that migrating birds could cause a deadly strain of bird flu to hit North America, plans to test nearly eight times as many birds this year as we've ever done in the past decade, starting in April.
Samples from 75,000 to 100,000 birds are going to be tested for the virus, mainly in Alaska, because that's where they're coming across.
As part of a joint effort of the Departments of Agriculture and Interior, along with state fish and wildlife agencies, that's a jump from 12,000 birds tested in 96.
So they're really worried.
And What if we do get bird flu here?
It's likely, I mean, it's shown up everywhere else now, of course, in parts of Europe.
So, if the virus is detected in wild birds in North America, we will not do what everybody else has done.
There'll be no massive killing of birds to contain it because experts, including those in the WHO, World Health Organization, and the World Organization for Animal Health and the USDA, agree, that's almost everybody, that destroying birds is not an effective control method.
What would happen, one scientist says, is health experts and people involved in agriculture would be put on alert and warned to make sure that poultry are separated from wild birds, but we would not kill them by the millions.
North Carolina health officials are looking into the death of a woman who died last week of a flesh-eating bacteria just three days after accidentally jamming her hand in a wheelchair while working at a nursing home.
Nursing assistant Sharon Bishop, 44 years of age, died February 27th.
A doctor said a very rare flesh-eating bacteria may have entered her body through a thumb injury, and she turned from healthy to fatally ill.
The picture of health, one day, three days later, dead.
The culprit, a rare invasive form of Group A bacteria, said Debbie Crane, a spokesperson for the State Department of Health and Human Services.
The non-invasive form is widespread.
It's commonly known for causing strep throat, she said.
So it's just like strep, except it gets in your thumb.
It's kind of like getting bitten by a shark or struck by lightning.
It's not something that spreads to the community, at least for now.
And speaking of spreading.
The Agricultural Department is now investigating a possible case of mad cow disease.
A routine test indicated the possible presence of mad cow disease.
According to John Clifford, the USDA official, the agency would not say where the animal was from.
Just what we need.
The cow did not enter the human or animal food chain, said he.
The department is conducting more detailed tests at the laboratory in Ames, Iowa.
Should have results in four to seven days.
The inconclusive result does not mean we found a new case of BSE, he said, giving the abbreviation for the disease's formal name.
Inconclusive results are a normal component of most screening tests, which are designed to be extremely sensitive.
So I guess we have to worry a little bit about beef.
Mad cow makes a good argument for those who eat veggies, all right?
Well, yeah, I mean, it's going to zap the light, right?
unidentified
Well, probably here's what I figure happened.
It turned around to see what were and figured, okay, they can't be intelligent because, you know, here we are with an utterly silent craft, probably running on, you know, a magnetic, you know, a magnetic field.
And these guys are going to paint us with a light and they're unarmed.
Okay, let's just keep going, you know.
Anyway, so they left.
But here's the odd thing about it.
Another odd thing was that partially turned air traffic control.
So I know that most of every continental United States craft has to have a port and starboard light, green and red light, so another pilot can tell which way that craft is going.
Right, I'm just saying, that set it in my head that it wasn't something that was at least not configured properly.
I mean, the government could do whatever they want, but in any event, it had a peach-colored outline, okay?
Very, very faint.
But you know what, Art?
We watched that.
We could see it until it disappeared over the horizon.
I mean, it was odd because that light was so dim and so pastel, but we could see it all the way until, and there were other crafts in the air, and nothing made any move toward it, including police choppers.
You know, they've got a police chopper that goes around over the industrial areas.
Oddly, these things happen in not just one, but many.
In fact, later tonight, as we talk to you about the Phoenix lights, you're going to hear that it really wasn't just Phoenix.
That's one of the first things to know.
And then two or three months went by.
And just like somebody threw a switch, just like somebody said, okay, it's time to cover this, all three networks are All three major U.S. networks on the same, the very same night acted as though the Phoenix lights had just happened, and it was a major national story, appearing then, of course, in newspapers and all over the place.
It was just like somebody waited two months and said, okay, let's tell the story now.
The End Let us continue to probe what awaits us in the lines, on the lines, wildcard line, rather.
I thought that was, well, I know they procreated, but I mean, it was the Egyptians quite, quite, Okay.
unidentified
Well, anyway.
The pyramid here on Earth and the pyramid there on Mars lined up.
The planet stopped, hence your ice age.
And then that caused a great storm on Mars, which brought a big old funnel cloud and took all the water and sucked it off of Mars and shot it down to Earth, landed on Earth in Mariana's Trench.
Well, what would be interesting to do, I think, with Tesla would be to separate fact from fiction.
Tesla is reputed to have done many things that I think he has not done.
He did many wonderful things, many amazing things, and of course many things we'll never know about because the government rushed in and took everything, you know, all his documentation and work.
And so we're free then to imagine just about anything.
And, you know, he's attributed with making buildings shake and cities shake and earthquakes.
And I think not all of that is true.
So what would be of real value if it could be done and if we could get the right people would be to validate what Tesla actually did do and separate the myth and the man.
You know, I was thinking about the disclosure, the UFO disclosure, and why they still have it going on and why we haven't been told the truth.
You know, I was thinking, what if they were taking the technology, reversing it, and then selling it to the big companies and basically making this deal, you know, as it goes?
Because it seems to be that the elected government isn't the permanent government, you know?
I interviewed Colonel Corso a number of times, and it was quite remarkable.
He said that he was given access to a drawer, his word, of technology that was obtained after the Roswell crash, and it was his job to integrate that into American industry.
And I recall all kinds of claims like lasers and other things that came from the Roswell crash.
I mean, he was an older man who had, in my opinion, nothing to gain from doing the interviews that he did with me.
And I rather believed him.
I don't know whether any of you have had the opportunity to hear the Colonel Corso interviews, but if not, they should be immediately resurrected from the archives, and we should definitely make them available for you to hear.
That would be a suggestion coming from me.
They were very important interviews, and, you know, when you get somebody his age, and he knows it's near the end of his life, you rather expect to get the truth, and I think we did hear the truth.
So those would be very important interviews for you to review.
What would do it, though, and could do it, would be really the smallest thing in a way.
For example, a dirty bomb.
People say that's not small.
In a lot of ways, it is small, sir.
A dirty bomb is just radioactivity packed with explosive to scatter it around, and it really wouldn't kill very many people at all.
But the resulting panic from that happening would kill a whole bunch of people.
So it would depend.
Terrorists could do things.
You know, our economy is rather precarious, as was proven by 9-11.
Of course, it did recover, so you could argue it's robust in another way.
But anything that would crash the economy, I think, would do the trick.
unidentified
Right, because I'm a truck driver, and I think if something like that happens, I think a lot of truck drivers would be like, you know, I've got to go home and defend the home front.
But everybody should be prepared for the possibility.
People take oaths, and those oaths are important.
But when it really comes down to it, how many of you would say that you would not take care of your loved one?
That you would perform your public service without a thought to what's going on at home, the children, the wife, the rest of it, how many of you could honestly say, and I mean dig down deep for this one, and you would not save your own family first?
So that in mind, if there was a national emergency of that scale, I think what that gentleman suggested and what we observed in New Orleans would be repeated.
Honestly, now, a legitimate wire story that a guy had found two miniature Tryanosaurus rexes in Nevada, had one of them stored in a metal tool shed, and the damn thing bore a hole right through it and got away.
He had the other one and was going to supply pictures.
Peter has had a very active interest in the UFO phenomena since his early boyhood.
He actually had his first UFO sighting over St. Louis Municipal Airport in the summer of 1954.
That'll do it.
And he investigated his first UFO case during the summer of 1965 in Exeter, New Hampshire.
Peter has been witness to several anomalous events, possibly UFO-related, including a dramatic sighting over Baja, California in February of 1990, Several nighttime sightings over Washington state during 92.
In addition to being the director of the National UFO Reporting Center, Peter has served as the director of investigations for the Washington chapter of the Mutual UFO Network.
And we've got some witnesses coming up to what happened in Phoenix and beyond Phoenix, I would like to add.
But first, you know, Peter, because of the last call that I had in this last hour, it was obviously a guy, you know, hoaxing.
It was a guy calling up with a strained, he had to have been hurting his throat to do it, saying he was on a galactic ride in some spaceship somewhere.
You know, it was an obvious hoax.
Now, that really dovetails into something that you're having a big problem with, and we do have this problem in ufology with people hoaxing things.
And it was like right up front there in what you sent me.
Some days, fully 50% of the calls that come to our hotline here in Seattle are young kids, insolent, calling on their cell phones, oftentimes calling from a party, all of them all at once, to see who can get through to the hotline.
And the person who gets through, more often than not, starts screaming, I mean, some of the worst language I've ever heard in my life.
Between 20 and 50% of the calls we're getting are, I estimate, hoaxed or frivolous calls.
And you can imagine how much easier my day would be if those calls were to suddenly go away.
It would actually be an enjoyable job.
But maybe we can talk about this during the third hour tonight.
It is really a serious problem, as well as the hoaxed reports that pour in during the school day, almost as if these kids don't have enough work or homework to deal with.
And God knows, on Phoenix that night, the date was March 13th, 1997, Thursday night, a night I will never forget.
Nor I. I expect the same for you.
Nor I. It was one of the wildest nights I've ever spent on this planet.
Never have I seen so many calls come in in such a short period of time, and we have the great pleasure of being able to bring at least two or three of those very, very good witnesses to our program tonight.
One of the most frustrating things about my job, aside from the hoax calls, is the fact that I don't think many people are paying attention.
And even today, nine years after the Phoenix Lights event, we get calls from people who either have never heard of the Phoenix Lights case or who've heard about it and they've concluded that, well, it must have been those flares that the government told us about.
And if I have one objective tonight, it is to bring to our listeners here on Coast the evidence that they will need, I believe, that will be adequate for them to conclude whether the Phoenix lights can be ascribed to a handful of flares 60 miles southwest of Phoenix or whether they cannot.
But after our listeners have listened to actually three witnesses during their first hour and then listened to some of the investigators who have been kind enough to come on to the program with us tonight, I defy anybody to believe the official government story.
And we will maybe talk later in the program about what may have been going on in the government that night.
They must have been shocked to see five objects go over Phoenix, Arizona, each one of which we estimate to have been the size of an international airport.
The most incredible thing is that it created almost no ripple in the news media whatsoever, even when some of the major news media in this country were apprised of what had happened that night and the day following, and they elected to turn their back on it and not cover it.
People think of me, the coast listeners who've heard me before, probably think of me as a ufologist.
In point of fact, I think it's more correct to say that I'm an observer of unusual psychology, human psychology, and unusual societal response to the UFO phenomenon.
And that strikes me as being more strange than having five gigantic objects go over Phoenix.
The fact that it was not covered at all in the national press for almost three months is even more bizarre still, in my estimation.
These two witnesses are, in my opinion, the best that we've run across in the last nine years.
I invited them on tonight because, number one, they had a wonderful view of the objects that went directly over their heads.
Number two, each of them was with four other people.
So it's not as though we have just one person telling us what she allegedly saw.
And they're excellent witnesses.
With that, why don't we start with Sue, who saw the object before Stacy did, Sue up in northern Phoenix, just south of Camelback Mountain, between Camelback Mountain and Sky Harbor Airport, as I remember.
And just one last preface, if I may.
Any of our listeners who are online who would like to see the actual objects or artists' renditions of what Sue and Stacy are going to be talking about during this hour may go to our website, ufocenter.com, and click on the link that will lead them to the illustrations that I've taken from my slide presentation.
With that, Sue, why don't you just take it from there and describe where you were and when you were and with whom and what you saw, please?
unidentified
Well, actually, my daughter Monica, who's on the phone, drove up to the house because we were all going to go out that night with three of my other children.
So she came up and came running into the house and got us all to come out to the front yard.
And that is when we first saw the lights coming over Camelback Mountain.
And there were probably five big, huge lights in front of this, what I was calling the vehicle, because we didn't know what it was.
And it came very slowly over a very big mountain, just literally a mile north of me, maybe.
Would your impression be that it was a craft, that there was something solid between the lights?
unidentified
It was absolutely a craft and something solid because it was right over us and we were looking up and our two boys, my two younger children that were out there, were actually laying on their backs in the yard and just watching it.
And we were just watching it and it was so close.
I mean, they were waving.
Boys, now it was dark outside, but they were waving.
So we were out there somewhere, you know, between three and five minutes watching it.
And again, I'm not more than a mile and a half from that mountain that it came over.
So it was, and it passed our house, and we could see it.
It was so huge.
And we're looking at planes.
I mean, that's what was weird.
You could see jets just around in the normal pattern around Phoenix that, by the way, I went out later and I could cover with my thumb, just to give you an idea.
And these are low jets ready to make the circle to go land at Sky Harbor.
And we kept watching it approximately, I would guess, down to McDowell, which is two miles away from me.
Well, I guess what I mean by that is, do you believe that you saw a craft from another planet, from another galaxy, from another somewhere, not here?
unidentified
I would say yes, because I've never seen anything so quiet and so large flying in these skies ever in my life.
And what would you think?
Well, I've got to admit that before ever seeing anything like this or having experienced this, I was definitely a skeptic.
And when we came inside and called the airport, and just because we were curious about what it was and they couldn't give us an explanation, they said they had picked nothing up on their radar or whatever anywhere in our area.
And so they were kind of trying to tone us down maybe.
And then again, as my mom had mentioned, referred us, giving us Peter's number at that point.
But yeah, like my mom had said, if no one else can come up with anything, a better explanation, you can't help but wonder what else it could have been.
Something, if I could cut in here just for a second.
I think Sue saw that object do something just before it streaked off.
I'm looking forward to hearing her description of that event.
But the curious thing about this object is that shortly after Sue and Monica had seen it, it streaked to the south and passed through the airspace of Sky Harbor Airport.
Music Once again, from the UFO Reporting Center in Seattle, Washington, which has been of just inestimable value to us over the years in terms of gathering information, because God knows there isn't much else out there.
And I have my daughter in the back seat passenger side, and her friend was in the, or my daughter was driver's seat, and her friend was passenger seat, and I was rear middle.
All right, well, you would have been seeing it from different angles, I presume.
Stacy, okay, so you've got a total of five lights now.
unidentified
Yes, we've got a total of five lights, and it's still north-northwest of us, but then it came right over I-10, and we're heading north on I-10, going 80 miles an hour, and the nose of this craft finally came over the roof of my car, and we had a straight-on view of it.
I was attempting to take pictures, but the object was so huge that even one orb or one light completely filled my lens to where I couldn't even take a picture.
Someone would have thought I took a close-up of a light.
Well, either one of you, Sue or Monica, did you see what you would call seams?
unidentified
Well, seams being the outline of a vehicle from the back, it was totally lit up, not in those big, huge lights you've seen on the news, but I'm telling you, it was totally lit up all the way around that boomerang shape, all the way to the back, everywhere.
And it was, it was like this structure, and that's why the boys were waving.
They almost thought there must be someone that can see us because you could see the vehicle.
And it was just, I don't know what we were seeing, but we were definitely seeing lights all the way around.
Not those big spotlights in the front, but I mean there were lights all the way even on the back.
And because you couldn't see past the sky past it, you had to assume it was solid.
Stacy, what was your impression of what you were seeing?
I mean, to be driving under something this size, and you knew because of how quickly you were driving the scale of what you were seeing.
How did that settle in on you?
What did you think you were seeing?
unidentified
Something from out of this world.
My heart sunk at first.
And then we turned off the radio.
The children in the back seat both rolled down the windows and stuck their heads out.
And like Sue said, there was no noise whatsoever.
and this thing was right above our heads and I don't know why we did not stop.
There was no conversation going on.
I don't know if we were all scared and heading in the opposite direction, thinking, okay, if this is going that way, we should be going the other way.
So I don't know why we didn't stop in retrospect.
I wish I would have.
I wish I would have taken a picture of the light, even though it would have probably been undiscernible.
And the color of the light, like Sue said, the only thing I can describe it to is when the harvest moon rises, the weird orange color it has when it's right on the horizon.
The lights in the front were clear, and the ones that went all the way around the vehicle were more like, like I say, those parking lot lights, that kind of a yellowish.
And the interesting thing about the next witness is that she saw something similar to what Sue and Monica and Stacey just described to us, except it was not on the 13th of March, it was the night before March 12th, Wednesday, that she saw similar objects going over Las Vegas headed to the east.
And I'm looking forward to having her share this new information.
Many people do not realize that this event occurred not just over one state, but over several days in different parts of our country, it appears from my vantage point.
You're going to have to yell at us on your real close to the phone.
unidentified
On March 12th, after 8 p.m., my neighbor and I were standing outside talking, and at about between 8.15 and 8.40 p.m., out on our driveway, I was looking west.
I noticed out of the corner of my eye several bright lights up in the sky.
And my neighbor and I looked up, and I couldn't believe what we were seeing.
There was a relaxed V formation of white to off-white or pale yellow lights headed our direction.
And we both couldn't move, gazing up and discussing between each other what we were seeing and agreeing what we were seeing.
The difference between the Las Vegas sighting, the Las Vegas lights, and the Phoenix lights are this.
There was no substance whatsoever between the Las Vegas lights, and there were many more of them in a V shape.
We could see the night stars and the sky through the formation.
They kept in cadence, in a relaxed V shape, and continued over, directly overhead.
And in cadence, right in step with each other as they came over.
I would estimate they were probably going 30 to 50 miles an hour when they approached us and went directly overhead east-northeast towards Nellis Air Force Base.
In fact, I got only one or two art, and that's the mystery of this thing, is how something like that can go over a major city at between 8.14 and 8.40 p.m., and we get only one light.
There are many, many things about my job that are more a mystery than anything else, and I don't understand how that can happen, except to say, after what we just heard from the Phoenix area, it occurs to me that huge objects can go over a major U.S. city, and we never hear about it.
And I've said this many times, and I'll say it again.
People going about their daily lives, whether they're in a vehicle or they're in the middle of some kind of job or doing a task or whatever, they look straight ahead.
If they're driving, they look at the road.
They look at the cars.
They look at a lot of things, but they don't look at the sky.
And even if they're walking, they tend not to look at the sky.
People look at what's in front of them, not above them.
And I honestly think that's how it happens, Peter.
I don't know what other possible explanation there could be.
Now, probably many of our listeners are saying, well, there's a good likelihood that Dorothy is mistaken on the date.
And I'd like her to address that issue.
In fact, she probably remembers when she and I first talked back in March of 97, I assumed, and I assumed in error, that she had gotten the date wrong in citing March 12th.
I assumed that she had just skipped a day, as we often do.
But could you tell us, please, Dorothy, how can you be sure that it was March 12th that Wednesday night and not March 13th?
unidentified
March 12th is my brother's birthday.
There you go.
He had been at my home a few hours earlier having cake and ice cream and taking a picture.
And it was a couple hours after he had left when this whole thing occurred.
And the next night, and after this sighting, I might add, I ran in and called an Ellis Air Force Base.
The airman that answered said he was in the basement, so he probably couldn't see anything anyway, and directed me to the UFO reporting, the National UFO reporting site.
And then I called KLAS-TV, Channel 8, locally, and they hadn't seen anything.
So I did call you.
And then March 13th, the Phoenix light sightings.
And of course, I always listen to Art Bell.
I was listening to the program, and I could not believe what I was hearing.
It sounded like the same thing, you know, 24 hours after what I see, exactly, nearly.
So March 12th was his birthday, and there's no doubt about it.
And I know you questioned me over and over, and I was getting a little irritated because I know what I saw, and I don't know what I saw, but no, I saw something, but I know when I saw it.
And the objects you saw in that huge formation, Dorothy, were they self-luminous, or is there any possibility that they might have been, for example, migratory birds in a wedge-shaped formation?
unidentified
Oh, that's hilarious.
Peter, no, I don't know if they were luminescent, because that's light emission without heat.
they were more almost maybe they were bioluminescent for all i know but they were rather lustrous or brilliant like bright pearl so
Of course, strangely, months later, the entire United States media woke up to what happened over a major U.S. city, and they broke the news just like it had happened the day before, the damnedest thing you ever saw.
From my perspective, having covered it and then having been astounded at nothing happening, just complained bitterly on the air about it.
And then three months later, just like somebody threw a switch and damnedest thing.
Anyway, we're going to enter a different phase of the show now with our guest, who is Peter Davenport from the National UFO Reporting Center.
By the way, I want to stop for a second here.
And I want to say, look here, folks, the National UFO Reporting Center is a resource that backs up the kind of work we do here.
It's a non-profit, a Washington non-profit deal.
And, you know, it's a doggone, thankless job.
And it's not remunerated.
It's not.
The only reason it even exists is because Peter pulls money out of his own pocket, something he absolutely ought not have to do.
And so I'm asking you to make a donation to the organization that feeds us information on what the hell is going on out there.
And I really mean out there.
So if you care about it, you'll dig into your wallet a little bit and send whatever you can to Peter Davenport.
And to be honest with you, I wish I'd never heard about a UFO.
But this job has hooks on it.
And once you start taking these calls and talking to people like Dorothy and Sue Watson and Stacey Rhodes and you hear their stories, how can you turn your back on this and say, well, I've had enough.
And I think it is crucially important that my fellow citizens, the American people, understand that this appears to be going on and the press and their government is saying nothing or very little about it.
They can send it to the National UFO Reporting Center, or NUFORC is the short form, NUFORC.
The second line is PO Box 45623.
That's P.O. Box 45623.
The third line is University Station.
That's a post office here in the Seattle area.
University Station.
And that's Seattle, Washington.
Our zip code is 98145.
Seattle, Washington, 98145.
Any contributions go directly into our Reporting Center checking account.
It covers our email expenses, long distance, all of the expenses we have to bring this precious information to the coast audience and to other audiences as well.
I hope they do it because it really is that important.
And now we're going to move kind of into another segment of the program, still sticking with the whole Phoenix Lights thing, but into the area where we're going to talk to some experts about it.
We have a doctor, physician, Dr. Lynn Hitai.
And perhaps you can tell me something about her, Peter.
She has been one of the most remarkable investigators of the Phoenix Lights case.
And before we go to Lynn, or Dr. Lynn, as she likes to be called, I'd just like to say that there are many, many other very good investigators in the Phoenix Lights fray.
People like Bill Hamilton, who wrote a very nice book, was very, very energetic in collecting information.
Tom King, Tom Taylor, Richard Motzer, even Francis Barwood should be mentioned in this respect.
But I thought it would be very interesting to our audience tonight, Art, after they'd heard some of the witnesses, to hear some of the investigators from the Phoenix area who have devoted the last nine years, or certainly a good portion of their lives over the last nine years, to collecting the information from the literally thousands, thousands of witnesses to these events.
And Dr. Lynn is certainly one of those who's not only done that and done it in spades, but has written a book and has produced at least one very nice film, which will be airing in the Seattle area tomorrow, or in the Phoenix area tomorrow.
I hope she'll talk about that.
But with that, she's perfectly capable to introducing herself and sharing with our audience what she's done over the last year.
I'm really curious why a physician, how a physician, what kind of doctor are you?
unidentified
Actually, that's a great question, and I have to say before I get into that, that you guys are so fabulous.
Peter, Art, everyone that was involved with the investigation, because I've stayed anonymous for seven years, I'll get into that, but it's teamwork here.
And to get the word out there and to keep this precious information, as Peter phrased it, which it is precious information, alive, is so important.
And that's why I finally came forward.
I have been involved not only with private practice, and I was chief clinical consultant at the Arizona Heart Institute's Imaging and Wellness Center, which I gave up this past summer to complete the documentary, but my life's work, and it's really ironic, for over 30 years has been community education.
My undergraduate work is in education.
I started doing health tips for NBC in Philadelphia in 76, and here as well in Phoenix and USA Cable, and then started a company to produce video and workbook curriculums on vital health issues, the reality of AIDS and teen pregnancy and substance abuse.
And I have to say that when this fell in my lap, and it was actually started two years before the mass sighting, my husband, who's also a physician and I, had a very close sighting to our home.
It was mountainside in Paradise Valley, and I happened to get pictures of it at the time, but had no interest or knowledge of this at all.
And this is in a private gated area.
So when anybody brings up military, I immediately go back to the 95 sighting, which is so poignant and was such an incredible experience, which I go into detail in the book and the documentary.
In 95, my husband, one wall of our bedroom is a window.
So we enjoy a panoramic view of the city skyline, and we know what planes look like and helicopters and streetlights and so forth.
And he called, and he he's head of different boards and medical boards and so forth.
So nothing alarms him.
And he sounded alarmed.
He says, get over here quick.
And I jumped out of a bath to go to the window with a towel, and here I'm dripping wet, looking at three amber orbs in a triangle formation, like a pyramid, one on top and two closely aligned underneath.
And I call them orbs because the light did not extend outside the edge.
They were self-luminating, and they were mesmerizing.
And the light was very different than any other light I had ever seen.
It was a uniform amber color.
The guests before, the witnesses, were talking about an amber color.
They were definitely amber.
That's how I would describe it.
Uniform, not with a hot spot like a light bulb, but uniform throughout.
Very soft, very mesmerizing.
And I knew if I didn't get a picture of it, nobody would believe me.
And as I go running to the closet to catch my camera, my husband calls me back to the window and says, get over here quick.
One of them is disappearing.
And as we're watching, the top orb, without budging, and there were three distinct objects, you could see three distinct objects, about three to six feet each.
They were about 100 yards from our home, a little below us because we're high in the mountain.
The top orb started to dim as if on a dimmer switch.
It didn't budge from the other two.
It was extraordinary.
And it seemed after it did dissipate that it was still there.
That was the feeling.
But we couldn't see it anymore.
And I got out on the balcony.
I shot a picture of the two lower orbs.
And it took me a long time to admit this.
And the first person I admitted it to was Jim Deletoso, who will be with us shortly.
But it seemed not only that there was a total silence, it was very eerie, as if time had stopped, but it also seemed that there was an intelligent presence watching me just as intently as I was looking at these two bottom orbs.
And the next thing I remember, the left bottom orb started to disappear, and I quickly shot a picture of that.
And that was the only picture that turned out at the time.
But it was monumental for me because it verified that we did see something unusual.
I did get a picture of it, but I didn't know what to do with it.
I knew nothing about this topic or anyone involved with it.
And when we come back, we'll move on from what did get her involved.
And you know that'll do it, folks.
As it did with me.
Once you've seen something and you've seen it close up, it changes your life.
Music Once again, Dr. Lynn Kitai.
And, Doctor, it's always fascinating to know what gets somebody involved.
And, of course, Peter Davenport back as well.
And that obviously would have done the trick.
I had a very similar experience.
And your life just changes now.
You said you worked sort of.
Well, you did because I've not heard your name until now.
So then when the Phoenix lights came along, you jumped all over it, apparently, and began an investigation.
Is that correct?
unidentified
Well, there's so much more to this story than March 13th.
Actually, two months before the mass sighting, the lights came back.
And, of course, the two years in between, I did wonder what this advanced technology was, if I would ever find out what we saw, what it was all about.
And here the lights come back, but at a distance.
And I started documenting them again on film.
As a scientist, I guess I just felt compelled to do so.
And the second night of which, which is really interesting and very poignant, the same formation appeared in the same location as would happen two months later on March 13th.
And I happened to catch this phenomenon head-on turning into a V, six pictures in a row.
It was so unnerving because it was a massive span of these orbs in an equidistant formation that the next morning I called around, found air traffic controllers at the airport, who saw the same thing, admitted to me that they were in airspace, that it did not show up on radar, and moved in tandem, in their own words, there were lights that seemed to be attached to something, but they couldn't quite see what it was attached to, moving very slowly behind South Mountain.
Doctor, could you see any form within the lights at all?
unidentified
No, I could not.
But when you look at the pictures themselves, and anybody that's interested in taking a peek at some of the pictures that I took, because I have a plethora of pictures that I've actually gone to great lengths to have explained to me, University of Arizona, Arizona State University, Brooks Institute of Photography,
and across the board, and Jim will share as well, I've been told that no one ever has taken 35mm and video from the same vantage point prior to, during, and after the sighting.
My website is www.thephoenixlights plural, thephoenixlights, one word.net.
We bring many of them down, and there's going to be a lot of people headed there right now.
All right, so you investigated for a very long time in terms, not only as a witness and somebody taking photography, but as an investigator.
So what have you concluded, Doctor?
unidentified
Well, actually, it wasn't until a week after the mass sighting, and I happened to catch one of the handful of videos that night of the three lights over the city.
It wasn't until a week later when I saw Jim Deletoso on the news with my video because I Happened to walk into an investigator's home to take a look at my picture from 95 and the other data that I had been accumulating because I was just so curious.
I wanted somebody to give me an answer and someone of credence to take a look at it.
And right away, the news was badgering him for information.
I said, hey, this isn't about me, but please take a sample of my video and share it with the news people.
And my video ended up on all the stations.
A week later, I see it there as well with Jim De Latoso showing the same amber orbs and triangle formations from all over the world.
That was the first I heard of it.
That really blew me away.
Now, not only had thousands of people who were purposely looking up at the sky that evening at the Hailbob Comet saw the same thing that I had been seeing, but this was happening worldwide.
I had no idea.
And that really set me on a journey where I pushed my entire professional life aside for four years to try to find a logical source and meaning for what I have witnessed and photographed.
I have yet to find it.
If anything, my meticulous inquiry really opened up a whole new world to me that eventually I felt obliged to share.
You would give up a medical career to pursue this.
Have you come to any conclusions about what that was?
unidentified
Well, actually, I don't know what it is, but I know that it is.
And I have the evidence to prove that, you know, it still hasn't been explained to me.
And I've gone to extreme lengths to have it explained to me.
And it cannot be denied.
And when you really look at the whole picture, and of course, I'm sure many of your listeners know that there is a history to this.
I found out certainly when I started lecturing with the book, especially with children, I mean, there is a chunk of history missing from our history books.
And I hope with the book and now the documentary, because of my other work that I've done for so many years producing video and workbook curriculums, I also felt compelled to make a documentary.
Dr. Lynn Ketai, and Doctor, I wanted to give you one more opportunity because it's coming up.
Well, is it actually tomorrow?
It's on a Sunday?
unidentified
Tomorrow.
Tomorrow we're celebrating the ninth anniversary of the Phoenix Lights Mad Sighting Event, the Arizona Sighting Event with our Internationally Award winning, by the way.
Okay, I just want to be sure of that, and I want to give you a chance to tell people again where and when.
unidentified
It's going to be at the Harkin Shea Movie Theater on Scottsville Road in Shea.
We have a 1 o'clock, 4 o'clock, and 7 p.m. screening.
The DVD is also available.
The original collector's DVD while they last is available through our website, thephoenixlights.net.
And maybe be kind enough to post that if people can't get on it right now.
Thephenixlights.net.
And we've updated it, and we're having an exclusive showing tomorrow.
We have not only added children, which of course are my passion, but I also had three recent sightings this summer, May, June, and August 30th, which was really profound for me because it was the same exact formation.
As we're finishing up production, the same week we're finishing up production, the same three lights that I photographed, videotaped on March 13th, 1997 appeared again August 30th.
The two gentlemen we're about to hear on this program, I would say for my money, and I've tracked the Phoenix Lights event very closely for the last nine years, if there are two people who have collected the bulk of evidence that allows us to know what we know about those events, it is Jim De La Toso and Dr. Michael Tanner, who at that time were back nine years ago, were working together on this case.
They sacrificed their health and their treasury and their time and their business interests, I suspect, to collect all of the information that has been collected and distributed so nicely.
But I'm delighted to have these two guys on, and they are national heroes, in my opinion.
Maybe I should ask then, with your current understanding of the data, what is it that you've documented?
unidentified
Well, I have a database of knowns that I've collected since the late 70s, special effects, mistakes in film, airplane lights, flares, etc.
Like doing fingerprint analysis or blood work, you have a database of knowns.
You extract the data out of the unknown, compare it so you can get a match or not.
If we don't get a match, it's an unknown.
And then we could compare all the unknowns later.
Well, these lights, under all conditions, Fourier transforms and spectrum analysis for those of you interested in computer testing for those of you that are just wanting to know what we did, cannot possibly be flares.
There are logistical reasons why we don't believe it's flares, but scientifically, if you go through the steps and measure it, and it's repeatable by anyone that wants to do it, can't possibly be flares.
So we know what it isn't.
I'm not sure I'm in a position to say I know what it is, but I know it isn't flares, airplane lights, hailbop.
How were you two able, you and Dr. Tanner, able to devote these kinds of resources to it?
I mean, you had a business, right?
unidentified
We had a business with about 20 full-time staff people and contractors that work with us regularly designing and installing supercomputer networks.
So we had sufficient resources to be able to carve out time and people for things that we thought were important, like doing movie blues tours or testing UFO pictures.
I mean, well thought out, well-positioned, good quality equipment, and was very precise for me to be able to scan the film and look at the orbs themselves at 9,600 lines per inch is what I would scan them at.
Well, video, 525 lines is what it's supposed to be across the entire image, which means that the orbs might be 10 to 20 pixels.
The Maryland National Guard was already landed at 8.30 at Davis-Monthan Air Force Base, according to the public information officer that we spoke to down there.
So even if they were out dropping flares, wrong time, this happened after 10 o'clock.
There were actually, I think this whole thing was kind of split into two segments, one that occurred around 8.30 local time and another that occurred around 10.
There were events all during that time, but there were clusters of events, and I think you have it right, a lot of early ones, and then later, quarter of 10 or so.
unidentified
Yes.
Which Michael Tanner has precisely clustered into a taxonomy that reveals that it wasn't one formation or one large ship with orbs breaking away from it.
They were separate command and control objects going on.
Anyway, so gentlemen, Jim, if you had to give a capsule analysis of your Findings, which by now you should be able to do, you would say what?
unidentified
I would say, logistically, I can't see how and why our government or military would organize and allow something like this to happen and come up with such a weak cover-up later.
That aside, there's some interesting other things.
Now, I gave you the opportunity, and you came up with misunderstanding, and now you're saying weak cover-up.
unidentified
Weak cover-up.
Two months later, the local National Guard spokesman says it was the Maryland National Guard.
Then, remember, the National Guard is under authority of the governor, and our governor had just dressed up like an alien and ridiculed the whole affair.
The governor did dress up as an alien and made fun of the whole thing.
So was all that orchestrated?
Was all of that, I guess, obviously it was orchestrated, but I mean, other than for fun to just sort of put the whole thing under the mat?
unidentified
Well, it's possible that he had a sincere intention initially, commensurate with Francis Barwood, to find out what was going on, and someone helped him make up his mind to drop it in an elegant way, and only the court gesture can tell the king where to go.
So by dressing up like an alien, it was a way to dismiss it gracefully.
But again, your findings rule out flares and don't rule really anything in.
Is that a question?
unidentified
Well, let's consider one other interesting event.
Scientific American magazine, July of that year, reported in a 10-page story that the LACILA telescope and Hubble telescope had imaged very unusual gamma bursts of radiation, a distant galaxy, and then apparently in our solar system.
Well, we must consider all the possibilities that since we can't get a match in the knowns database, and it's in the category of unknowns, there is where we have the freedom to speculate.
And if it is interdimensional or extraterrestrial, what would be the dynamics they use to get here?
Could gamma bursts of radiation be a mechanism to travel great distances quickly and then materialize here along a geophysical line that from millions of miles away looks like a ceramic metal oxide semiconductor sliced sideways?
And it really began to develop into such an extraordinary, compelling picture that it required full-time work for a number of months and then continuing ongoing updating as new information came in.
But really, I would like the listeners and Farrell to understand I approach this as pretty much every man on the street meet with people eye to eye and see their vantage point, what they saw when.
That's why I selected the close encounter cases and those witnesses who had specific reasons to know exactly what time they witnessed what they did, where they were exactly, and how much agreement in all of these witnesses was there in what was seen?
Well, the problem was, and as Peter will tell you, he's got a tremendous database of information, illustrations of all kinds of, say generally V-formations of lights, but in the fine detail, it began to be a very confusing picture.
And it wasn't until I was able to gather a number of witnesses up in the Prescott area and getting them together and realizing clearly that they saw separate objects and how they seemed to converge into the Prescott area and then head toward Phoenix and down the I-17 corridor and then beyond to I-10 between Phoenix and Tucson.
How many people did you run into that described something as dramatic as being so close that they could describe Seams in the craft.
Did you run into any of those people?
unidentified
Well, there were dozens of people as I was able to sort them out.
And as little as 200 feet above the heads to 1,000 feet were the size of the craft, and I think it was probably the same one that went over Stacey Rhodes and her family, where the craft was so low that beings were seen silhouetted in the windows.
Once again, Peter Davenport and, of course, Dr. Michael Tanner.
That stopped me cold, Doctor, when you said you talked to witnesses who saw windows and beings behind the windows.
Was there any description of them?
I mean, how much detail was there?
unidentified
Well, they weren't quite low enough to determine what kind of beings, but they were at least humanoid from the descriptions that we got.
Wow.
But let me back up or rise above, so to say, and look at the bigger picture that began to emerge.
I believe if you look at all the data we've collected, and believe me, there's still a whole lot more yet to be discovered.
Probably thousands of people that have information that haven't stepped forward or reported in any other way.
This appeared to be a very purposeful, even elegant operation that was twofold.
It was clearly a demonstration of sorts to the government through the military of a technology that's so far beyond anything we're capable of, and I include anything the black operation, so to say, or Groom Lake or anywhere else under a human operation.
So it had nothing to do with any kind of military opposition or that sort of thing at all.
It's clear to me that the objects that went over Phoenix were not of man's manufacture.
I feel very comfortable in going that far, whether it was a purposeful demonstration or not.
In order to answer that, having been born in Missouri, I'd want to talk to the occupants of those craft.
Fortunately, I didn't have the opportunity to do that.
unidentified
Let me cite some examples here.
Before I go on, the other aspect of the twofold purpose was this was also simultaneously a sort of parade for the citizens.
But the demonstration aspect began to be very clear to me as we saw the number of instances of jets coming out of Luke Air Force Base primarily to intercept these craft.
First off, we look at the orbs that came into the state from the direction of Henderson, and as Peter began to get reports from Kingman and Pauldon just moving down the state, we have a formation of orbs that were described by Prescott witnesses like giant fireflies.
They had an organic aspect to them.
They were blue-white as they entered that area.
As they left the Prescott area, they changed to a shade of yellow.
By the time they got to the edge of Phoenix, they were amber, and they were in fact videotaped going across the valley at some distance by a retired military Air Force man who said they were like nothing he'd ever seen before.
I've on coast to coast in years past, I played that tape of my conversation with the U.S. Air Force airmen who called the National UFO Reporting Center about eight hours after the Phoenix Lights event began.
And it's clear that the Air Force was thrown into a tizzy over all of this.
They knew that whatever it was that was happening was not of their making and it was foreign to their operation.
unidentified
As we proceed, the orbs went to, by the time they were halfway between Phoenix and Tucson, they changed to a shade of red, and just short of Tucson, they split up and went in different directions.
Meanwhile, and I believe from the information so far that the F-15s that Peter refers to as the ground crewman talked about probably intercepted or attempted to intercept the orb formation.
There are several sets of witnesses that emerged to back up a neighbor to the Luke Air Force Base that said there were six to eight sorties or flights of jets that went out on that date and that night primarily.
We have Bill Greiner, the truck driver, who emerged early on, who paced a pair of orbs that as they drew closer to Luke Air Force Base and then hovered, one of them virtually over the base was like a hot air balloon in shape without the basket as he described it.
And as two jets, then a third one coming behind it did a steep bank and arc directly toward this object, it shot Straight up and disappeared.
Another set of witnesses described a giant triangle that hovered over the Deer Valley Airport area, which is North Phoenix, and they witnessed two jets coming from the direction of Luke attempting to intercept this craft, and instead of disappearing or moving as the others did, it held its ground and the jets had to veer away to avoid a collision.
Well, I think Michael is probably the one to answer that.
He was much closer to the investigation.
It is clear to me that he knows much more about the specifics of what's going on that night.
unidentified
Well, in the word of one officer that spoke, obviously, off the record, he said it was the worst night of his military life.
He said it was sheer pandemonium at Luke Air Force Base.
And with the events that actually started for the military about 5.30 in the afternoon, and later that night, two other sets of witnesses saw craft being intercepted by jets.
Not only do we have these witnesses confirming the military action, we have also over Crown King in the mountains just north of Phoenix a demonstration of what appears to be some kind of interdimensional capability.
By all accounts, this was as if there was a war games going on with no shots fired.
It was if there was cooperation on both sides, but if we can believe the ground crewmen, there certainly was not cooperation so much from the military side as that they were just withheld from really doing anything.
There was no reason to fire, but only to intercept and investigate.
But as the Crown King event was affirmed by an early event over Lake Mead earlier in that day and two weeks later near the Kennedy Airport, these craft went into a really strange routine of rolling and tumbling and going into a ball and disappearing after over Crown King three of these giant carpenter squares to describe,
to give the description one witness in central Phoenix of the shape of these craft.
A fourth object appeared next to them as they were hovering as first a bright amber light that morphed, if you will, into a triangle or a square.
Witnesses couldn't quite tell if they're three corners or four.
But as the four objects were observed then going into vertical formation, they began to compress upon each other, rolling into a ball as they described, disappeared within a second or two.
Two jets were seen coming from the south to apparently try to intercept something that was not there any longer.
The Lake Need event involved eight of these objects in formation that went into a similar routine when apparently a commercial airliner got close enough to prompt it.
And the Kennedy Airport area incident involved two craft that merged and became one, which speaks to witnesses describing the Phoenix Lights event an area of a triangle going away in the direction of Tucson, splitting into two craft.
And then we have halfway between Phoenix and Tucson at an area called Picacho Peak, two craft coming together as if there were 747s about to collide and they merge and become one.
Boy, looking back on this now and hearing what you're saying, having interviewed all those witnesses, is just mind-blowing, absolutely mind-blowing.
And it seems like all of this ought to be put together somehow in one large documentary and simply presented to the American people as a major incident over a major American city.
unidentified
Well, Jim and I have been working on this, the rest of the story, if you will.
Dr. Kitai has done a wonderful job of focusing on the orbs and presenting a great deal of evidence for their existence and their reality.
We have spent a lot of time trying to make sense of the rest of the story, and just to do an animation of the nature that is required, it's going to take a feature film budget to do it properly.
But in any event, we're dedicated to that purpose, and hopefully by the 10th anniversary, we'll have something to share of a highly compelling nature.
All right, this is going to take us off track, but I'm getting a lot of email about this, and I want to give you a chance to answer it.
All right, a little controversy.
Never heard us.
This comes from Mike in Auburn, Washington.
What I want to write to you about tonight, this was an email, are my suspicions about your guest Peter Davenport, who's going to be your guest tonight.
You see, I heard James Gilliland tell someone at his ranch that he believes that Peter Davenport still works for the U.S. government.
James Gilliland was saying he's invited Peter Davenport to come out to his ranch and observe UFO Skywatch some night many, many times, but Peter's refused all attempts to get him to come to Gilliland's sanctuary and observe UFOs which routinely fly over the ranch.
We heard from him recently, and so he would like that answered.
He's also suspicious that you were a Russian language interpreter for the U.S. government and thinks you still work for the U.S. government and dispense Disinformation.
But they are my adversaries in the field of UFO work.
In years past, in programs past, in incautious moments, I have probably stated or used the term lie, which has a hard edge to it, of course, in referring to the U.S. government's position on UFOs.
I think a more accurate representation is that they are simply not addressing the issue.
They are simply not sharing with the American people, who pay their bills, of course, and for whom they work as public officials, they're not sharing this information with the American public.
And Peter, the only explanation I've ever heard is that the U.S. government concluded, along with other governments in the world, that whatever these are, and they don't deny their existence, they simply say they're not a threat to U.S. national security.
And I find that worth a chuckle or two, because if things are traversing our airspace and we don't know what they are and we can't stop them, and that does not constitute a threat to national security, then what the hell does?
One of the things we haven't touched on tonight with any of our guests is how many airports, how many control zones, how many terminal control areas or Class B airspace these objects went through in violation of the federal aviation regulations.
I think there have been suggestions from that camp that I've worked for the NSA or the CIA or the FBI or the alphabet soup of government agencies.
And if that is their Belief, I would invite them to come forward with their evidence so it can be analyzed and tested and so on and so forth.
It's simply not true, just not true.
And moreover, I would cite the fact: what purpose would there be for me to work for the U.S. government in?
I've put, I think, about 38,000 UFO reports on the National UFO Reporting Center website.
So if the government's objective is to cover up the UFO phenomenon, that would be an awfully bizarre act on the part of somebody in sympathy with that effort.
So people don't think it is just I who is representing these things.
They can hear Sue Watson and Stacey Rhodes and Dorothy from Las Vegas and they know that these people are, they can just hear in their voices that they're sincere.
It is troublesome to me, too, and I find I oftentimes just withdraw from it because I am so busy that I do not have the time and therefore don't have the desire to get involved in some kind of internecine battle in the ranks of ufology.
I just, all I do is provide a conduit for people who believe they may have seen an unusual event, possibly UFO-related, to send that information to a facility where it will be preserved and where it will be made available anonymously in the public forum.
Perhaps there are other UFO investigators out there who do, but it is more a mystery to me what is going on in ufology than it was 12 years ago when I took over the hotline.
The only focus that I've seen occur is in the minds of serious investigators focusing on the U.S. government and its motives in all of this.
And I will be honest, it's a very, very difficult thing for me to talk about without a great deal of cautious preparation.
But what worries me is the possibility, worries me more than anything else, is the possibility of cooperation in some form that we cannot even imagine between these objects, these presumably alien creatures, and the U.S. government.
I don't know that we've ever talked about this one in any depth, Art, but it's the one that really curdles my blood.
I am quick to admit that I don't know what happened there, but just a thumbnail sketch of what we know is the following.
Please.
On Sunday morning, about 5 a.m., and this was on the 4th of August 2002, so we're kind of this almost four years ago, a gentleman left his home in Northumberland County, Pennsylvania on a four-wheel vehicle, an ATV all-terrain vehicle, headed up about four or five miles to his family land on Mount Montour.
He was going up there.
Originally, he was going to go with a hunting buddy.
They were going to scope out populations of deer up on the mountain in preparation for deer season in Pennsylvania.
Well, he did not show up at home when he was scheduled to later that Sunday.
And his wife called the authorities, submitted a missing persons report.
And before the day was out, some 200 people in a search party were searching for Mr. Seas.
And in fact, they very, very quickly found his all-terrain vehicle up very close to the top of Mount Montour.
I think it was on his land.
On the back of this vehicle, it is reported in the newspapers, they found his outer garments neatly folded, I am led to believe, lying on the back of the all-terrain vehicle.
I knew nothing about this case until probably about the 25th of August, roughly three weeks later.
And somebody sent me an email saying, why aren't you pursuing this case?
And I said, what case are you talking about?
The person elected to remain anonymous, but I had an email address.
And the person shot back saying, well, the case of Todd Seas, of course.
You have a report on your website about this incident.
And I went to our reports, and lo and behold, there was a report that was so bizarre that I had posted it, but I presumed that it was a hoax.
It was a report to the effect that four grown men had seen a disc hovering above Mount Montour and a shaft of light connecting the disk to the top of the mountain and a man's body being floated up into the disc.
And I went back and looked at that report and looked at it from a different perspective now because Mr. Todd Seas was searched for all that Sunday.
They did not find him.
In fact, they had horses, they had tracking dogs, and the tracking dogs could, it is reported in the newspaper, I believe, not even the tracking dogs could find a scent of Mr. C's leading From his all-terrain vehicle.
His remains were found, quite tragically, and they were found Suspended in underbrush, according to the information available to me.
He had a very unusual object clamped to his upper arm.
I don't know what that object was, but people who saw it said it was very unusual.
He was clad only in his undergarments, and it is reported to our center here in Seattle that the remains were so badly mutilated that apparently even perhaps his son could not recognize the remains as having been those of or being those of.
When I asked him if photographs had been taken of the remains during the process of performing the autopsy, he said yes, but nobody will ever see them.
And the other interesting aspect about this, which I'm unable to confirm, is that very shortly after these remains were found and very shortly after the local police had satisfied themselves that they were probably the remains of Mr. Seas,
it has been represented to me, and I cannot confirm this, that the FBI was on scene very quickly, that they moved the police cordon off away from the body even further.
It's a local homicide or accidental death of some variety.
We don't know that foul play was involved, but the mutilation suggests almost certainly there was, and it would not have fallen under federal jurisdiction.
There was no kidnapping across a state line, etc.
Now, it gets even more interesting, Art.
It is asserted that the some 200 members of that search party, who had just Scoured the mountaintop.
By the way, the body was found very close to Mr. C's house, only about 100 or 200 meters from the house he had left at 5 o'clock that Sunday morning.
Well, the interesting thing is, it is asserted by people with whom I've corresponded, who allege to have been members of that search party, that all of the members of the search party were ordered to go to a local fire station where they were told that under no circumstance would they talk about this case or that search.
And they were taken up there allegedly to have their health checked, quote, their health.
If I were not receiving 50 reports a day, I would have been on this.
And if it were not on the other side of the country, it was turned over to MUFON, and they had a new state director in Pennsylvania, an attorney, interestingly.
And I don't know the details of to what degree he followed this one up, but to the best of my knowledge, no report was ever generated on this one.
That is unfortunate because the details we have, the facts we have, on the face of them are alarming.
Well, over the next several months, I presume, I will be moving and moving the National UFO Reporting Center from Seattle out to eastern Washington to a piece of land that I think I'm safe in saying this.
All the documents, all the required items have gone into escrow.
To the best of my knowledge, I've been successful in purchasing a decommissioned U.S. Air Force ICBM Atlas E missile site on about 21 to 22 acres.
Now, you told me earlier this was during the days when we operated on a 30-minute, in other words, if they were to launch over there, we'd have 30 minutes to get ours in the air before we became obliterated, basically, right?
I suspect that the taxpayers paid hundreds of millions of dollars just for a few months or a few years of coverage based on the rumor of a missile gap, so-called missile gap, between the Soviets and the Americans.
All right, we've only got enough time for you to repeat the address, which I'd like you to do for donations because this is for the UFO Reporting Center, folks.