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March 5, 2006 - Art Bell

02:28:29

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Rama Coomaraswamy - Catholicism Exorcisms and Evil

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	Kumaraswamy, that's his name, and he was apparently a friend of Father Malachi Martin's.
	So it should be actually very, very, very interesting.
	We've got all kinds of questions for him about exorcisms and entities and just all kinds of things.
	So, Father Kumaraswamy.
	That's better.
	Kumaraswamy.
	I can just stick with that.
	All right.
	Let's look briefly at the world.
	Never a great pleasure.
	Though, the ensemble drama Crash pulled off one of the biggest upsets in Academy Award history, winning Best Picture Sunday over the cowboy romance Brokeback Mountain, which had been the front-runner Crash featuring a huge cast and criss-crossing storylines over a chaotic 36-hour period in L.A.
	Wrote a late surge of praise that lifted it past Brokeback Mountain, a film that had won most other key Hollywood honors.
	Iran has threatened, in fact it did threaten on Sunday, to embark on a full-scale uranium enrichment if the UN nuclear agency presses for action over its atomic program.
	Now, here we're not so happy about that.
	A top US diplomat warned the Islamic Republic of possible, quote, Painful consequences, end quote.
	Now, when a U.S.
	government guy warns a country of possible painful consequences, what do you think we might mean?
	Comments came as the International Atomic Energies Board prepared to meet Monday to discuss referring Iran to the U.N.
	Security Council, but delegates said whatever the, uh, whatever step the council might take would Somehow stopped short of sanctions.
	I have a feeling when we're talking about painful consequences, we're not talking about diplomacy.
	But I could be wrong.
	AT&T is doing something interesting.
	The government, you'll recall, came along and broke up AT&T.
	They said, you're too big, you're too much of a monopolistic entity, and so we are going to break you up.
	Well, AT&T is going to buy Bell South.
	Now, that's one of the baby Bells.
	And so, looks like the Bells are getting back together.
	And maybe AT&T will buy them all back and then we'll have just AT&T again.
	Then the government will have to come along again and bring them up again.
	Never should have broken up AT&T in the first place.
	In a moment, I'll tell you about some new paint.
	This paint is amazing.
	It's a nanotechnological wonder, and it might affect your cell phone.
	That's right, your cell phone.
	in a moment.
	Thank you for watching.
	Namaskaram.
	Kumaraswamy.
	I've got to get that.
	This is going to be an interesting guy.
	He received early education in India in an orthodox Hindu setting.
	But get this, then he graduated from Harvard University and went on to medical school.
	Then, check this out, he spent 30 years as a thoracic and cardiovascular surgeon.
	30 years!
	Retrained in psychiatry and then in 97 was ordained by the traditional rites in the Roman Catholic Church.
	Wow!
	That's some background.
	A Rochester, New York company has developed paint.
	Now this paint can switch between blocking cell phone signals and allowing them through.
	You could use this, for example, in a concert hall, allowing cell phones to work before the concert and during breaks, but during the performance, one click of the switch and none of them work.
	That was a quote from the president of Natural Nano.
	Ha ha ha!
	Natural Nano.
	Natural Nano.
	I like that name.
	Maybe I ought to interview this guy, huh?
	Natural Nano.
	He's got a hard name to pronounce, too.
	Looks like Riedlinger or something.
	Natural nano, that's a bit of a contradiction, isn't it?
	Nanotechnology is the arrangement of molecules in a specific way by man, so why would you call it natural nano?
	I don't know, that just caught my attention.
	Down in North Texas, they've got some unusual lights that are showing up in the world of paranormal.
	Experts there are saying there are many phenomena that can occur involving light, but one North Texas church has reported not only the appearance of orbs, but other religious manifestations.
	Riverwalk Fellow Church is a charismatic church.
	In Haltom City, the services aren't exactly traditional, neither are some of the reported phenomena happening there lately.
	The church's senior pastor, Steve Solomon, I can pronounce that, maybe I ought to interview him, a Messianic Jew, a Jew who believes Jesus is his or her Messiah, has reported, among other things, an oil substance manifesting on the balcony and on the baptismal and the pulpit of the sanctuary, one of the church's prayer Intercessors, Velvet Alexander was the first person to discover the oil when entering the sanctuary one day, and simply touching one of the columns in the church says her initial reaction was, somebody better call the pastor, cause oil don't come out of wooden brass.
	Alexander said when the pastor first heard about it, thought something had broken, thus their investigation into the whole matter began.
	Solomon said as people began taking pictures of the oil, something else began to appear in the pictures.
	He said we'd started taking pictures at church and almost everyone would just take a picture and all these orbs would show up.
	We decided to pay a visit to the church and take our own picture.
	It revealed a large blue orb hovering over a woman's head as she was being prayed over.
	Now that was the investigator of this story who had that bit of proof dropped in her lap.
	Of course, I guess most of you know that Harry Brown, and I interviewed Harry Brown a couple of times as a Libertarian candidate for the presidency, has passed away.
	I'm so, so sorry about that.
	Harry Brown was quite a guy.
	Now, that's kind of old news now, but I didn't want to let it pass by without saying something.
	Harry Brown was quite a man.
	Now, the following story I'm reading for as much for my own amusement as yours.
	You might have heard it.
	I don't know.
	But I enjoyed it, so here it comes.
	Only a guy would probably do this.
	This was submitted by a guy who purchased his lovely wife a pocket taser for their anniversary.
	Well, little hint here, guys.
	Tasers are really cool, but you don't buy one for your wife's anniversary.
	Last weekend, I saw something at Larry's Pistol and Pawn Shop that sparked my interest.
	The occasion was our 22nd wedding anniversary, and I was looking for a little, you know, something extra for my wife, Toni.
	What I came across was a 100,000-volt, pocket-per-size taser.
	The effects of the taser were supposed to be short-lived.
	With no long-term adverse effect on your assailant, thus allowing her or him adequate time to retreat to safety.
	Way cool, I thought.
	Long story short, I bought the device and I brought it home.
	I loaded two AAA batteries in the darn thing and pushed the button.
	Nada.
	I was rather disappointed.
	I learned, however, Then if I push the button and press it against a metal surface at the same time, I'd get this really cool blue arc of electricity darting back and forth between the prongs.
	Awesome!
	Unfortunately, I have yet to explain to Tony what that burn spot is on the face of her microwave.
	Okay.
	So, here I am at home with this new toy, thinking to myself, well, couldn't be all that bad.
	It's only got two AAA batteries, right?
	Little bitty things.
	So, there I sat in my recliner.
	Me and my cat Gracie.
	Gracie looking at me intently, trusting little soul, while I was reading the directions and thinking that I really needed to try this thing out on some kind of flesh and blood moving target.
	Must admit, I thought about zapping Gracie for just a fraction of a second and then thought better of it.
	She's a sweet cat.
	But, if I was going to give this thing to my wife to protect herself against any potential mugger, well, well certainly I needed some assurance that it would work as advertised.
	Am I wrong?
	Some.
	I sat there in a pair of shorts and a tank top with my reading glasses perched delicately on the bridge of minnows, directions in one hand, taser in the other.
	The directions said that a one-second burst would shock and disorient your assailant, a two-second burst was supposed to cause muscle spasms and a major loss of bodily control.
	A three second burst would purportedly make your assailant flop on the ground like a fish out of water.
	Any burst longer than three seconds would be wasting the batteries.
	All the while, I'm looking at this little device, measuring about five inches long, less than three quarters of an inch in circumference, pretty cute really, and loaded with two itsy little bitty AAA batteries, thinking to myself, no way.
	What happened next is nearly beyond description, but I will do my best.
	I'm sitting there alone, Gracie looking on with her head cocked to one side as if to say, Don't do it, Master.
	Reasoning that a one-second burst from such a tiny little thing couldn't hurt that bad, so I decided to give myself a one-second burst just for the heck of it.
	I touched the prongs to my naked thigh, pushed the button, and holy mother weapons of mass destruction!
	I'm pretty sure Jesse Ventura ran in through the side door, picked me up in the recliner, and then body slammed us both on the carpet over and over again.
	I vaguely recall waking up on my side in the fetal position with tears in my eyes, body soaking wet, both nipples on fire, testicles nowhere to be found, my left arm tucked under my body in the oddest position, and a lot of tingling in my legs.
	The cat was standing over me, making meowing sounds I've never heard before, licking my face, undoubtedly thinking to herself, Do it again!
	Do it again!
	Note.
	If you ever feel compelled to mug yourself with a taser, one note of caution.
	There is no such thing as a one-second burst when you zap yourself.
	You will not let go of the thing until it is actually dislodged from your hand by a violent thrashing about on the floor.
	A three-second burst would be considered conservative.
	Son of a... That hurt like hell.
	A minute or so later, I can't be sure as time seemed to be a relative thing at that point, I collected my wits.
	What little I had left sat up and surveyed the landscape.
	My...
	Bent reading glasses were on the mantle of the fireplace.
	How in the hell did they get up there?
	My triceps, right thigh, and both nipples were twitching.
	My face felt like it had been shot up with Novocaine, and my bottom lip weighed 88 pounds.
	I'm still looking for my testicles.
	I'm offering a significant reward for their safe return.
	still in shock Tommy.
	Well, it is a guy kind of thing.
	Let's take some unscreened, random, God-only-knows-what-might-be-coming calls.
	First time caller line, you are on the air.
	Good morning!
	Good morning.
	Hello.
	How are you?
	I'm rather well.
	Extinguish your radio promptly.
	I will.
	Can you hold on?
	Well, I suppose... Well, I'm just like 10 feet away.
	I'll be right back.
	Thanks.
	You're supposed to have it close.
	Now, see, there's a lesson, folks.
	Have your radio close enough to you so that you can easily reach it.
	Okay, very good.
	Thanks very much, Mr. Bell.
	You bet.
	I've appreciated your service over the years.
	What is your first name?
	Jeremy.
	All right, Jeremy.
	And where are you?
	I'm on the west coast of Canada.
	I have a question in relation to history.
	History?
	You had a female, I guess it was a professor of psychology, and she was talking about electrical fields.
	I'm thinking, yes.
	And in relation to walking past street lights.
	Is this that thing when you turn off street lights?
	Yeah, I turn them off and on, so I'm walking past one.
	You know, there's an explanation for that.
	It meant something and I missed the repeat.
	In other words, this guest, whoever it was, said it meant something.
	Yeah, about the individual that you can go and turn them on and off as you just walk by them.
	I'm afraid that I missed the program.
	There's no way I can help you.
	No, it was with you.
	Well, I don't remember it.
	I must have missed it anyway.
	Over the years, sir, I've had a lot of people who claim that they turn them on and off.
	There's supposed to be some kind of conventional, real explanation for that, but maybe you're just weird.
	Maybe I'm just weird?
	I don't know.
	I don't have an answer for you.
	I'm sorry.
	Oh, okay.
	I'm afraid that's it.
	You're weird.
	I'm weird?
	Well, I don't want to leave you being weird.
	I appreciate your call, and if I come across somebody who tells me what it might mean, I'll be sure and pass it along to you.
	Doctor somebody?
	That's usually doctor somebody.
	Okay, well, thanks again, Art.
	You're very welcome.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Hi, I was calling Bird Bill.
	You were?
	Why did you want to speak with him?
	Pardon me?
	Well, I wanted to thank him for all the time that he spent with me here in a truck, and that letter he wrote there had my eyes just watering.
	I just recognized your voice.
	I don't have a screener, so it's just like, boom, you go right on the air.
	Oh, I see.
	Kind of listening to the radio on my right ear and listening to a phone ring on my left ear, so I didn't know it was you.
	Well, you know, as I read that story, I kind of identified with it.
	I mean, um, a little device like that, you'd have to, like, try it out once at least.
	Well, you know, what was so funny to me is, as you're reading this, I picked out about three people that I knew that would do that.
	Oh, yeah.
	And it justified why they did it.
	Oh, yeah.
	Absolutely.
	It's just, you know, another experience in life.
	Oh, good Lord.
	But anyway, thank you so much for everything you've done.
	You're very welcome.
	I'm a driver, been a driver all my life, and I found you back in, I think, in 91 or 92, and I've never tried calling in because I knew I just wouldn't make it.
	Well, see, you made it.
	So it can happen.
	Thank you very much.
	I very much, of course, enjoy all the Uh, the truckers out there, and I'll tell you, it was a lot of fun when I was RVing, and, you know, I'd get out there in the RV and I'd turn on the CB radio, I'm not ashamed of it, I've got a CB radio in the RV, and, you know, you get talking to the truckers, and a very, very, I think
	to be honest with you, more truckers, and I've said this before on the program,
	listen to this program as they traverse the highways and byways of America than any other
	radio program in existence, period. I mean, there was never a trucker out there that I could not
	talk to on CB who didn't know who I was and what the show was all about. Now, some of them didn't
	believe it was me, but that's all right. East of the Rockies, you're on the air. Hi.
	Hey, Mr. Bell.
	Hey.
	Good evening.
	Good evening.
	This is Earl from Kentucky.
	Okay, Earl, you're going to have to yell at me.
	You're not too loud.
	Okay, sorry about that.
	I just wanted to tell you about an interesting experience I had the other, or last week, I guess.
	I was kind of sitting in my chair in my house, and early in the morning, the birds just started, it was probably about 3 a.m., birds just started chirping, really kind of Wildly.
	Yeah, that's a very odd time.
	The bird shouldn't do that until the sun begins coming up.
	Yeah, it was at least three o'clock or so.
	But later on that morning, I just happened to fall asleep in the same chair and I was watching television and a bird actually flew into the window and it made a thud sound and started flapping around.
	Oh, man.
	Yeah, it is a little odd.
	And I'll tell you a story that I don't really know if I want to tell, but I'll tell.
	I don't know if I believe in these things or not, but I believe that birds are harbingers.
	Now, I may have told this story on the air when my father died.
	A little bat came and landed on our porch and I took the little guy and Ramona and I put him in the causeway between our house and the garage and he recovered and when dark came he just flew away.
	It was very hot out there.
	That was one that happened just when my dad died.
	And then before we left on our trip, the last trip for Ramona, when we were on vacation, when it happened, The day before I left, um, a bird, I was out on the porch, and a bird, how odd is this, at night, came onto the porch, you know, hovering basically, and came up to my face, right up to my face, and I could feel its little wings beating on my face as it hovered there.
	This is a wild, you know, who knows what.
	A finch or whatever, some bird, and it just flapped right in my face.
	I could actually feel its wings up against my cheek.
	And I've kind of come to view these sorts of encounters, since that gentleman mentioned that, as being harbingers.
	I don't know of good, bad, but certainly of change.
	Listening to that commercial with regard to shopping, that was exactly right.
	I'd rather wait in the car.
	And I always did wait in the car.
	Now, I'm doing all my own shopping, and I have become convinced that for whatever devious reason it might be, Many stores intentionally hide certain products, making it impossible for the normal person to find in the array of possible products.
	I mean, if you're looking for toothpaste, there will be every kind of toothpaste.
	Anyway, long story.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hey, Art, how are you?
	I am reasonably well.
	Good, good.
	This is Nick from Indiana.
	Yes, sir.
	Hey, I wanted to let you know that you came up with something a couple months ago, and I wanted to call and tell you that you were right on, but you said that basically The reason that, you know, we didn't hear anything about UFOs or flying saucers, or even the term flying saucer didn't come out until 1947, and you said, well, did the nuclear bomb have anything to do with it?
	Well, the one thing that is definitely caught in the universe is nuclear fusion.
	If you look at all the suns, most of them work off of that.
	You know, just by going out there and looking, we can see that.
	Totally no question about it.
	I think that any planet suddenly igniting a nuke, it would be like a flashlight going off in the dark, and If they were out there, they would say, oh-ho-ho, look at that!
	At least.
	Especially at an advanced race that would be able to travel outside their system, would understand how their sun works, of course.
	Yes.
	And then here we are just detonating them like they're 4th of July, so.
	But that's all I wanted to say, and I just wanted to say thank you for all the work you do, and keep up the good work.
	Thank you very much for the call, yeah, sure.
	It would be the one thing that would differentiate A very important point for any civilization.
	When that thing went off, it would absolutely be a marker.
	Oh look, they've discovered element 92.
	Now we better pay attention.
	And of course since then we've had endless UFO sightings.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Art, so good to talk to you.
	Thanks for taking my call.
	Professor here in Columbus, Georgia.
	Yes sir.
	I wanted to refresh your memory about a few things.
	Last week with Aaron Donahue, revealing that remote viewing was done with a luciferian help and demonic
	help.
	I just wanted to point out to you all those years ago when you first started
	interviewing Malachi Martin, the year would have been 1996.
	I remember where I was standing in my kitchen when Malachi Martin revealed that he had been
	called to the Pentagon on one of your interviews. He said that they had called him.
	Yes, he knew about remote viewing.
	They had called him to the Pentagon many times to do exorcisms from what some of those chaps had got, uh, from their demonic, uh, um, interaction.
	Well, do you recall, do you recall the, um, well, I don't want to say debate, but discussion we had between Major Ed Dames and Malachi Martin and Father Martin.
	Well, my cat just opened the door.
	He is so smart, Art.
	You know, I don't like cats, but I'm listening to you all those years about cats.
	I've got a cat that can open doors, he can close doors, he'll sit down and give you his paw and he'll talk to you.
	And you still don't like cats?
	I love them now!
	This little guy changed my attitude a lot.
	If I could turn up my mic volume a little bit, you'd hear my cats batting their heads against the door right now.
	I'm going to have to give in soon.
	Well, he was crying out there, but he pushed the door open.
	Bless his heart, he got in.
	Yeah, cats don't like closed doors.
	I'm gonna send you a video of all the things he can do.
	He does so many things.
	I've rolled a ball to him and he rolls it back to me sometimes.
	And then he's fickle, you know, it depends on if he's in the mood.
	If he's in the mood, he'll come up to me and he wants me to open all the drawers and all the doors so he can show me he can close them.
	Listen, I completely understand.
	Mine do the same thing.
	One of them will play ball with me.
	And bat the ball back to me and I'll just, you know, in the bathtub.
	They love the bathtub.
	So, to them, that's, you know, that's fun time.
	When I go in near the bathtub, they all line up, five of them, well four of them anyway, all four line up and they play ball.
	That's all there is to it.
	And they will run into the bathroom if they have determined that I'm in a mood to play ball with them.
	Cats are very... What's the right word?
	They're very discriminating.
	And I think that's why a lot of people don't have much to do with them, because they don't realize the subtle, discriminating qualities of a cat.
	And I don't want to get into a dog versus cat thing, because it's endless, but cats are rather more discriminating.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello, Art.
	What a delight to speak with you again.
	I spoke with you a whole bunch of years ago, and it was a delight then, too.
	So many things, but I do believe that there is a way that we can manifest a peace-oriented world.
	I really do.
	I think that we're going to be going through whatever challenges.
	I mean, we're in the midst of all of these challenges.
	We're going to go through them no matter what, but there are ways.
	And one is, it's a multifaceted thing.
	The first part is to first recognize and acknowledge that 500 years ago, there was an invasion on this part of the Earth.
	And I think it was not necessarily only from only across the seas, I think.
	An invasion?
	An invasion.
	Are you talking about an alien invasion?
	Yeah.
	500 years ago.
	Well, you know, it certainly came from across the seas.
	The people who were living here 500 years ago, and for much time before that, were people who recognized that the Earth was here, that we were interconnected with it.
	They were not all perfect people either, but they recognized that there was That we had to take care of everything.
	Take care of it for the next seven generations.
	Well, we're not doing a real good job at the moment.
	No, we're certainly not.
	And with regard to peace, dear lady, a lot of people, of course, have promulgated the idea of mass consciousness directed toward peace.
	What I worry about, and I know this may seem silly to you, I have now concluded and firmly believe That directed mass consciousness absolutely does work, but it doesn't always work as intended.
	So, it could be, for example, that you would want, you would study and just concentrate and go into all kinds of, you know, we could have millions of people concentrating on peace and then it could all get turned around on us.
	I mean, there could be a big nuclear war and then there'd be Peace.
	Peaces.
	All I'm trying to say is that somehow, without knowing exactly what we're doing in directing mass consciousness, I really am concerned that we would do the wrong thing.
	I think we need to do investigation, very heavy investigation, into this area and then begin to tentatively explore.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	I think you're, first of all, you're absolutely right.
	We're not smart enough to do math consciousness.
	Not yet.
	Not yet.
	We just are not that clever.
	Um, I have a bird story.
	Fire away.
	Okay.
	I was, uh, it was, I don't know, it was one morning I was sleeping and I heard this noise outside my window and it was the most God awful.
	What the hell is that?
	Common noise, yes.
	Oh my God.
	You know?
	And it wouldn't stop.
	I thought, is it a rusty door?
	Is it, you know, I mean, what is this?
	I look out and there's this goose.
	A goose?
	A goose.
	Now that is unusual.
	Oh, all right.
	Yeah.
	This thing is just, just cackling away at me, right?
	And it won't shut up.
	And I want to sleep.
	So I get up, I go outside, the goose Well, I was living in a trailer, so you know, you can hear people walking inside the trailer.
	The goose followed me.
	He was waiting in front of my front door when I went out.
	And just started cooing at me.
	All right, and I thought, what is this?
	Yeah.
	When I was a kid, my brother and I were feeding geese at a pond, and my brother got his hand too close to the goose's mouth with popcorn, and god damn near took his hand off.
	So I'm scared of the goose.
	Right.
	But before I know it, this goose has got his neck wrapped around my leg, and he's got his wing up, and he's patting me on the bottom.
	Patting you on the bottom?
	Yeah.
	He is, and it's a true story.
	This is a true story.
	So this goose just wanted to gander?
	You know what?
	That's the truth.
	I found out he was widowed.
	The people who owned him ate his mate.
	Oh, man.
	And he decided that I was it.
	And he hung around for months and months and months and months, followed me around.
	And you know what Art?
	It was one of the darkest, most miserable periods of my life.
	And I think if it hadn't been for that goose to give me some sort of wonder and awe at life, I might not be here.
	That's a remarkable story.
	There's something about These feathered friends of ours, some sort of something, and I haven't put it all together in my mind yet, but I'm telling you.
	You know, there's something that I've heard about called the secret language of the birds.
	Do you know anything about that?
	No, I don't.
	It's, you know what, it's something that I think I'll, if I'm able to, if I can find a guest on the subject, I'll explore it.
	Oh, I would love that, because it's one of the most... I mean, I've done a Google on it before, and it's this heavy, mystical thing, but it's fascinating.
	Oh, I couldn't agree more.
	Thank you very, very much for your call.
	I couldn't agree more.
	There is something about birds, and I don't... They're harbingers.
	I believe they're harbingers, and not just of the negative, necessarily, although that has been my experience thus far.
	But they're definitely harbingers.
	I've seen them depicted.
	Remember Captain Tripps?
	They used birds in that way.
	A lot of movies have used birds in that way, right?
	International Line, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Well, if I push the button, you are.
	Now you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Good morning, Art.
	Good morning.
	It's Jeff calling.
	I live about 80 miles north of Toronto.
	Welcome.
	I haven't spoken with you for about a year now, but Oh, by the way, I live with seven felines, so I completely concur with your feeling with regards to them.
	Pinball's my favorite.
	He just loves to sleep in there.
	I wouldn't have done this, sir, except... I don't know.
	I'm just a soft touch.
	Oh, I know.
	Art, the reason why I wanted to call tonight, I wanted to share with you a rather extraordinary, mysterious murder that took place either two weeks ago tonight or tomorrow morning.
	In Mexico, in the Yucatan Peninsula, there was a couple who had gone down to a resort from a small town north of Toronto to celebrate their daughter's upcoming wedding, which was going to be taking place on the 22nd of February.
	And, uh, on the Monday morning, they were, uh, everybody had congregated for breakfast.
	The parents weren't, uh, there.
	Um, uh, the staff went up and found the two people had had their throats slit.
	Wow.
	Yes.
	Why are you telling me this?
	Well, it is now turned into a rather, uh, international incident.
	I would imagine.
	Because what has happened is that, uh, immediately, the damnedest thing is, is that Nobody was questioned.
	The first thing that happened, the bloodstains and everything that were in the hallways coming from the room were cleaned up.
	And the Federales immediately said that there is no way that it was done by any locals, that it must have been a professional hit.
	People who had been down at this resort for a previous wedding a couple of days earlier They left and flew back here to Canada and now we've got these two single mums from a place called Thunder Bay who are now being fingered as the most likely perpetrators of this hit.
	Alright, well I'm going to hold it right there because it sounds like a case that is still in the investigation stage.
	I'm not so sure that I want to proceed with that line of discussion.
	I'm very sorry to hear about that, of course.
	And, you know, you do take your chances when you go to a foreign country.
	Americans really have to remember that That other countries are a bit more dangerous than America is.
	Other countries don't have quite the same rights as we are used to here in America.
	I think a lot of Americans who have not traveled think or feel that these rights are kind of universal.
	Let me tell you, they're not.
	And you can get in an awful lot of trouble in a foreign country Without any recourse, as you would have here in America.
	So check into the laws of wherever you go.
	It can be dangerous.
	Most of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Good morning, Art.
	Well, actually, it's not morning there, is it, yet?
	Well, that's all right.
	I think of most of it as morning, anyway.
	What's up, sir?
	Well, I was just wondering.
	This is Thomas from Alaska.
	When you first moved to Pahrump, did you go off-grid or anything like that?
	I'm off-grid now, sir.
	You are?
	In other words, I have the capability to be hooked up to the grid.
	That's here, but no, I'm off-grid.
	I've got solar and wind power.
	Yeah, that's what I thought.
	I thought you had mentioned that years ago when I was listening to the show one night.
	I'm about ready to move a hop, skip, and a jump away from you over to Flagstaff, and I was just wondering if you have any good leads on how to get started into solar and wind power.
	Well, you're going to have to contact, you're going to have to start to do some research and the best thing you can do is get on the web.
	Oh, I've been doing that quite a bit.
	Yeah, and begin to investigate the cost of solar panels.
	Begin to investigate, be very careful when you get to the inverters you're going to use.
	Assuming that you're going to use the power instead of selling it back, is that correct?
	Uh-huh.
	So if you're going to use power, you've got to be very careful about the inverters you get.
	You want to get true sine wave inverters, and if you get the right ones, and I don't want to, you know, give a company name here, but if you get the right ones, you'll have better power, a more pure sine wave, better for your equipment, you know, like CD players and that kind of thing, than the power company could ever deliver to you in a million years.
	Now the sine wave, that's the nice round wave and not a square wave?
	Well, a sine wave is exactly that, sir, a sine wave.
	But what I'm saying is the purity, the purity of the power that you'll get will exceed that which the local power company can deliver to you many times.
	There will be, it'll be kind of dirty, there'll be some, you know, type interruptions very quick that's bad for electronics.
	So, if you get the right inverters, you will enjoy very pure power indeed.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hello?
	Yes.
	Yes, I'm sorry.
	That was my connection, okay?
	Well, so far.
	Okay.
	Um, a few years back, I remember it was a Thursday night, it was Thanksgiving, Wednesday night, Thanksgiving Eve, and you had on the, uh, attorney that was trying to prove that the government was involved in those triangles.
	Oh, yes.
	Well, I'm heading through New York City, and I'm looking up, and here are the lights coming out.
	It's, like, foggy, like, maybe 100, 100 feet, 200 feet up.
	It was, like, low visibility.
	The triangle's coming at me.
	Well, the light is coming at me.
	And to my right, another light is coming at me.
	Now, this is really weird, because I'm saying this liner is very low.
	Now, this is in New York City?
	New York City.
	Okay.
	I'm on 95 South, going towards the Cross Bronx.
	Okay.
	And we slow down to about 35, 40 miles an hour.
	Right.
	And it was a low cloud cover.
	Excuse me, I'm a little nervous.
	I'm speaking fast.
	Anyways, I see it as very large.
	There's one light, and then it breaks into three.
	And to my right, I see another light, and I'm saying, these two, whatever they are, they're gonna hit.
	These, you know, the lights are almost intersecting.
	Yes.
	And the light to my right stops, and it's a helicopter, and you're a huge triangular shape with three lights underneath, goes right underneath it.
	The light's going about 30, I would say like, 30 miles an hour.
	Very, very much like what I saw.
	And it was in, you know, New York City.
	Yeah, well, that's the other odd thing, isn't it?
	I mean, there you've got a city full of millions and millions of people, but more so in New York than perhaps anywhere else.
	People don't look up, sir.
	If you're in New York, you know, you're looking at what's directly ahead of you, you're looking down the street, you're looking at a million different things, but you're not looking up.
	And there's a lot of it.
	This is pre-9-11, of course.
	Yeah.
	But this is very low.
	And I'm saying to myself, what is this guy doing?
	And then I see the other one coming towards it, and that's what caught my eye.
	The two were like, the two lights were coming together, because there's a lot of air traffic around the city.
	Sure.
	I just thought that was very strange, and of course, the ironic thing is that you're speaking with, I think, Peter Gerstmann, his name is.
	Yes, Peter.
	And I was just trying to, I thought I'd relate that story to you.
	All right, well, I very, very much appreciate it.
	As I mentioned earlier, in an orthodox Hindu setting.
	He then, amazingly, I mean what a change, graduated from Harvard University and then went on to medical school.
	He spent 30 years as a thoracic and cardiovascular surgeon.
	Holy Mackerel, then following his retirement from surgery, he retrained in psychiatry.
	He's published fairly extensively, both in the fields of medicine and theology.
	In 97, he was ordained by the traditional rites in the Roman Catholic Church.
	At present, he teaches and maintains a small practice in psychiatry, mostly dealing with problems involving the interface between religions.
	In psychiatry, that alone should be interesting.
	apparently he knew father malachi martin so in a moment this should be quite an adventure
	father malachi martin uh...
	became actually uh... of close friend
	contact.
	Father Martin and I had many, many exchanges, not just those that were on the air, but very private exchanges.
	So, I believe Father Kumaraswamy knew of Father Martin.
	Is that correct?
	And welcome to the program.
	Yes, it's very correct.
	I see.
	Sir, Father, how long did you know him, and how did you come to know him?
	Well, he called me up one day because he liked a book I had published called The Problems of the New Mass, and he invited me to lunch.
	No kidding!
	And we developed a close friendship after that, and I would say that we probably had lunch or dinner every other week for the last two to three years of his life.
	My goodness.
	Then perhaps you knew him even better than I did.
	I want to ask you this, and feel free not to answer, but there was some controversy regarding his passing, Father.
	Do you have any comments or any knowledge about that?
	Well, I do have some knowledge about it.
	In fact, I was with him in the hospital.
	He said that he had been knocked down by a demon and he hit his head and he had a hemorrhage.
	He was on anticoagulants.
	Right.
	And he had a brain hemorrhage from which he initially recovered and then later had further hemorrhage and went into coma.
	Um, that's quite a remarkable story, and I have not, had not heard previously that he felt that he was struck down by... Well... A demon.
	A demon, yes.
	I really had not heard that.
	Now, there's something even more interesting.
	He called me the night that this happened, because we often spoke on the phone.
	Yes, sir.
	And he told me that When he said Mass that day, it was Christ who was present and said it, and not him.
	That's all quite remarkable.
	Wow.
	He was a very incredible person.
	He certainly was.
	Did he teach you?
	He, of course, did exorcisms.
	I noticed that your area code, 203, I think that's probably up in New England, right?
	Yes, in Connecticut.
	In Connecticut, I thought so.
	So, you were quite close, and I wonder if he got you involved in this exorcism business that he did so much of.
	Well, he did, rather.
	He, uh, shortly after, uh, I was ordained, he sent me to exercise a house.
	And, uh, I looked at him somewhat with Askins, but he said, take your ritual.
	And he said, uh, charge him for it.
	It cost you to travel and go do it.
	And he was not the kind of person one refused to do what he said.
	No.
	No, that's true.
	That was my first experience with all this.
	Well, I'm certainly going to ask you about that.
	But then he obviously was taking you under his wing.
	Well, in many ways, not only with regard to exorcism, but also with regard to the whole realm of the spiritual life.
	He had some rather controversial views about the Vatican.
	In fact, he actually thought that there was evil within the Vatican.
	That's correct.
	You were aware of that?
	Yes, indeed.
	He also had knowledge of the third secret of Fatima?
	Yes, he did.
	He told me that he was actually driving with John XXIII.
	John XXIII, in the car, read the third secret, and then passed it.
	He was in the back seat.
	And John XXIII passed the secret back to him.
	And he read the secret.
	And then John XXIII made him swear that he would not reveal it.
	And as far as I know, he never did reveal it.
	What he did say to me, though, Father, was that If you can imagine the very worst that it could be, it is worse than that.
	Well, that much he would say.
	And then, of course, the Vatican sort of released, although I don't for one second believe that they released the real McCoy, but they did release what they said was the third secret.
	And how do you feel about that?
	Well, I think it's inconsistent with what Malachy did say.
	It certainly is.
	And I also think it's inconsistent with the area in the apocalypse which Malachy referred to.
	Do you?
	Chapter 7 to 13, he said, had much of the information that was in the letter, and it's inconsistent with that, too.
	Chapters 7 through 13?
	I think that's what he said.
	Alright, let's go back to the exorcism that you did do.
	Were there any surprises for you in it?
	Did you feel or see or hear anything during this exorcism that you could tell us about?
	Well, actually it was pretty boring.
	I read the ritual.
	Uh, and someone who, uh, was very close to Malachy, uh, brought a statue of Saint Michael, uh, the Archangel, which I blessed.
	Uh, which probably had more to do with the subsequent aspect of the story because I, uh, met the individual three years later and, uh, they said that it was very successful.
	Well, I'm sure Father Malachi knew what he was doing.
	Oh, that he did.
	Have you done other exorcisms?
	Have you ever been involved in an exorcism like some of the ones that Father Martin described?
	Well, yes.
	Maybe not quite as intense.
	You know, there are exorcisms and nexorcisms, but I have and that that would have to pay them
	which were done by uh... bishop mckenna
	and probably uh... as many as thirty of them in addition to which uh...
	maliki uh...
	uh... and uh...
	what you call for her i hate to call her a housekeeper but whatever
	of very of very very protective individual lives I'm not looking into that personally.
	Yes.
	When Malachy got called, she would refer them to me because she was trying to be protective to Malachy.
	Of course, she was very protective.
	I would either see or interview the person and then go and discuss it with Malachy when I saw him.
	I see.
	So, in a way, you might say I learned a great deal from him.
	How many others, Father, are there like you, and like Father Malachi, who are doing the kind of exorcisms that you have done?
	How many individuals like that are there around?
	Do you have any idea?
	I would say there are very, very few and far between, because most people don't really believe in the devil, and they certainly don't believe in exorcisms.
	Well, let's talk about that a little bit.
	You're quite right.
	Most people don't believe in an entity, the devil, or an evil.
	What is the nature of evil?
	Wow, that's a $64 million question.
	I don't know how I can answer that.
	Well, can you answer this?
	Well, I think there's no question that Satan is alive and well, if I can use the colloquial expression.
	And as a Catholic, I certainly am obliged to believe in the reality of the fact that Satan is around and does influence people.
	And you have observed this, and then going on to exorcism.
	The exorcisms that you did and Father Malachi did, were these authorized exorcisms by the Catholic Church, or were they sort of... I don't know what the right word is, but decisions made by Father Malachi without the usual, you know, church procedure for authorizing it.
	Well, the reason why the church requires a bishop's permission is simply because they don't want people going off who are immature, who are seeking after sensations, and so forth, and so usually the bishop will appoint, under normal circumstances, a mature priest who is also holy.
	Now, Malachi First, I was involved with exorcisms when he was in Cairo.
	An exorcism was being carried on by a priest, and his assistant had got sick.
	And this priest called Malachi up and said, would you mind assisting?
	So Malachi did that, and shortly after that he was back in Rome, and he told me, he said, I knew nothing about this.
	aspect of things that was not taught to me in the seminary and uh...
	so i i began to study it and investigate it with various exorcist uh... rome
	now that's a good if i may stop you are you said he was taught nothing about it
	in seminary uh... would that be true of you also that would and certainly uh...
	is true of me yet well i i i actually I would say of most priests. That's a wow because
	father it just seems as though you know in in being a servant of God you would have to be
	aware of of the devil.
	You'd have to be aware, certainly it's written about, it's understood, it's part of the Catholic religion, and so why would it not be covered in seminary?
	Why not, I wonder?
	Well, I think it's a fact that the majority of priests, even traditional priests, know very little about the field, and I think In a certain sense, I want to keep away from it because it can be a little scary to deal with these things.
	Very scary.
	But still, it's so, I don't know, in some way, intimately involved.
	I guess I don't get it.
	I don't get it.
	I agree with you.
	There's so much for a priest to learn in the seminary that it's very easy for certain areas to be neglected, and this is one that often is.
	And I think your comments are very appropriate.
	Well, I'm going to ask stupid questions, Father.
	I'm not a Catholic, so...
	I'm probably going to ask stupid questions, but that did amaze me that in seminary you would not cover that which you're trying to stay away from, that which essentially is the enemy, that which... That just astounds me.
	That's all.
	Well, it's particularly important because Malachi felt that the incidence of possession had gone up some 800% in the New York area.
	That's correct.
	And that even makes it more important that people who are functioning as priests should know what they're doing.
	Father, do you concur with that?
	With the increase?
	Yes.
	Oh yes, I do.
	You do?
	I think all this pedophilia and homosexuality that we're seeing is all part and parcel of that.
	Certainly pedophilia is to me clearly evil.
	Clearly evil.
	I'm not so sure about homosexuality.
	I'm honestly not.
	There may be a genetic reason that people become homosexual.
	It seems to me that homosexual people are able to experience what they call real love, and while it's certainly not my cup of tea, I don't feel the same evil connected with that as I do with pedophilia.
	Well let me comment about the genetic origins of homosexuality.
	Go right ahead.
	There is absolutely no proof, despite tremendous efforts to find such, that such exists.
	And the main objection to the claim is that if there is a genetic aspect to it, then homosexuality would die out because, by and large, they don't reproduce.
	Well, of course, that is correct.
	They don't reproduce.
	You know, if there's a genetic factor, they would die out.
	That's a good point.
	It's a good point, I suppose, unless the genetic transmission is, you know, like much genetics, it skips, hops and skips, generations, that kind of thing, so it could be carried in a family.
	I don't know.
	Again, Father, I don't... It's certainly not a politically correct area to get into.
	No, but if it's what you believe, that's fine.
	We're here to let people present what they believe, and you clearly feel that homosexuality is evil.
	Well, that would be my opinion, yes.
	Well, that's fine.
	It certainly has not received the approval of the Catholic Church.
	No, although there continues to be quite a bit of petitioning for it.
	Well, you can't petition for the church to change its teachings, at least if its
	teachings are true.
	Well, then how come people can eat fish now?
	That's a discipline. That's not a matter of truth.
	Okay. All right. Father, this is going to be, I can tell, very, very interesting.
	Thank you.
	Once again, Father Kumaraswamy, Um...
	Welcome back, Father.
	May I make a minor correction?
	You may.
	You said you called me an exorcist.
	Now, I should like to make it clear that because of my age and health, I no longer am doing any exorcism.
	I understand.
	All right.
	What is your age, if we might ask?
	I'm 76.
	76.
	All right.
	All right.
	I would also like to sort of relay something on to you.
	As I do the program, Father, I get these little computer messages from listeners, you know, as it's going along.
	They can send them.
	And one of them that I've got here says, from James in, let's see, Toronto, Canada, He says, Art, the statement from your guest that homosexuality is evil is just plain hurtful and mean.
	I'm a gay man, and I don't remember choosing my sexuality, and I go about my life treating others with dignity and respect.
	How can love be evil?
	I kind of agree with that, Father.
	How can love, even Even if it's something that I might not agree with, or the church might not agree with, but if it's love, how can that be evil?
	I'd like to understand that myself.
	Well, love is dependent upon the will, and one can love bad things as well as good things, so that not all love is to be necessarily approved.
	Now, I certainly insist that I would treat a homosexual with dignity and with respect.
	That doesn't mean that I necessarily would approve of his lifestyle.
	As a Catholic priest, I am obliged to adhere to the teaching of the Church, and as such, I cannot give approval to the lifestyle, but treating a homosexual without dignity and respect, that would also be against my religion.
	So, the church, then, is the last word on this?
	It would be, for me, the last word on pretty much everything.
	All right, Father, with that in mind.
	In the Bible, what would you quote in the Bible to uphold your point of view, or the Church's point of view, with regard to homosexuality?
	Is there anything specific that you would... There are passages in Scripture, I can't quote them off the top of my head, but there are passages both in the Old and the New Testament that speak against Homosexuality.
	But I should also emphasize, because in my book on the destruction of the Christian tradition, there's a chapter that deals with scripture, and it also deals with what's called tradition.
	So for a Catholic, one is not entirely dependent upon scripture, one also depends upon the The traditional teachings of the Church, which are found outside of Scripture.
	Yes, Father.
	The destruction of the Christian tradition is indeed the title of your book, The Destruction of the Christian Tradition.
	Can you give me a capsule view of what you mean by the destruction?
	Well, in essence, I think the Christian tradition, which includes Scripture, Has been under attack for the last 300 years and it has been all but destroyed.
	It cannot be completely destroyed because it speaks to the truth and you can't destroy the truth.
	But certainly the ordinary way in which the church presents itself has been drastically changed.
	And ever since Vatican II, which is also discussed in the destruction of the Christian tradition, ever since then, the kind of destructive forces have been, as it were, officially put into the middle of the Church.
	Wow.
	Again, kind of in agreement then with Father Martin?
	Yes, I would say that we were in full agreement.
	About almost everything.
	Well, I've heard stories that, for example, at one time, reincarnation was embraced by the Church as what occurred, and that a certain council, Nicaea, I believe it was, virtually erased that from Scripture.
	Is that true?
	Well, I certainly think that reincarnation is not a Catholic belief, even though I'm told that at certain polls that as many as a third of Catholics believe in it.
	Actually, reincarnation is, strictly speaking, not even a Hindu belief, though there are many people in India who do believe in reincarnation.
	In fact, also I would add that there's nothing in the Koran about reincarnation.
	So, I think that even the word was hardly in use in the English language 300 years ago.
	Can you trace the origins of it at all?
	Well, mostly it is the spiritualists who have talked about reincarnation.
	Uh, rather than, uh, theologians.
	And, uh, uh, spiritualism kind of believes that, uh, uh, they believe the soul evolves and grows and goes through various, uh, uh, reincarnations until somehow or other it, uh, it gets to that stage where it, uh, becomes one with something or another.
	But, uh, One with something or another.
	I'm not sure quite what.
	That's kind of an odd thing for a priest to say.
	With something or another.
	I don't know what reincarnated souls eventually get to.
	I see.
	But from a very orthodox Hindu point of view, the last thing in the world one would want to do is be reincarnated.
	And also if you can be reincarnated in something higher, You can also be reincarnated in something lower.
	That's a point I hadn't considered.
	You always think up.
	Most people always think up, I guess.
	So, yes, I suppose one could be reincarnated and be very disappointed.
	I think, actually, it's interesting.
	Max Mueller, who mistranslated a passage, talked about being reincarnated as a cockroach.
	Well, the last survivors, they say.
	So, when you write about something as controversial as the destruction of the Christian tradition, how do your colleagues respond?
	What kind of response have you had?
	Well, I can tell you that the first edition, which I put out, oh, must be 20-25 years ago, I was told by the bishop's associate that they were going to put me under interdict.
	What is that?
	That means that no Catholic can associate with me.
	However, at that time I was in the practice of surgery and I said that that would be restraint of trade.
	Really?
	So the issue was dropped at that point.
	Restraint of trade?
	In other words, no Catholic could come to you for surgery.
	Right.
	Oh my gosh.
	And while we're here, we'll come back to this, but while we're here, you have gone through in your life such an odd group of transitions that I really do have to ask about that.
	You see, I've had many reincarnations in this life.
	Yes, very good.
	From Hindu to medical school to 30 years in surgery, doing really rough surgery, thoracic and cardiovascular rough stuff, and then into the priesthood.
	That just seems so non-sequitur.
	I don't know.
	How did this happen to you?
	Well, I don't know if I can answer that.
	Things just happened.
	Yeah, I'll say.
	Most doctors, I interview a lot of scientists, father and doctors, and I must tell you that they lean more toward, frankly, not even a belief in God.
	Well, actually, probably 50% of scientists do believe in God.
	There have been all kinds of statistical studies.
	And, you know, I think we all believe in something.
	You know, when I was actively in practice, they used to call me a believer and themselves unbelievers.
	And that's not really true.
	They all believed in all kinds of things.
	Yes, but there's something about science and medicine that seems to have so many scoffing at religion in general.
	I'm not sure what it is.
	I guess it, you know, science is being able to prove things.
	Absolutely being able to conclusively, scientifically put your hand on it, prove it.
	Here's this and here's why it is.
	And we can do the math and we can figure it out.
	And of course, religion is none of that.
	It's faith.
	Well, certainly religion requires faith, but I think that it also follows from a certain amount of common sense.
	Give me the common sense part of it.
	Why is it common sense to have faith?
	For one thing, I think every human being has something in him that distinguishes between truth and falsehood, between reality and unreality.
	I agree.
	Between what's good and what's bad.
	I agree.
	And, you know, we can't measure that.
	We can't put our finger on it.
	We can't look and see what the DNA has.
	So, there is something, as it were, that deals with the mystery of life.
	Science cannot produce life.
	It can certainly work with life and change things.
	Good point.
	But there are things that science cannot speak to.
	And I think that the confusion is that some scientists want everything to be something they can measure.
	That's correct.
	And there are things in life, like love, which can never be really measured.
	Well, if we could measure it, then we'd know if the love that this homosexual gentleman claims to have for his mate is the same quality of love that a man might have for his wife.
	And if we could measure it and be sure it was the same, then I don't know how it could be evil.
	Well, if we could measure it and make sure it was the same, then I think you would have an argument against it being
	evil.
	Aha.
	Um...
	I don't know how you go about measuring love.
	Oh, I don't either.
	I don't either.
	There was a movie which gave me a great line, and I will usually line somebody up for the duck shoot by asking them, you know, when we're talking about matters of faith and things like that, I will ask them, do you love your mother?
	Well, of course the answer is yes, and then I respond by prove it.
	Prove it.
	Well, you can't prove you love, because you just can't.
	Oh, I agree with you.
	That's the problem of dealing with someone who says that they love something.
	I think Augustine speaks about the fact that some people love cockfights and, you know, that you can love something that's not good.
	Now, of course, some will immediately say, oh, cockfights are wonderful.
	Father Malachi Martin frequently said to me, or one time at least certainly said to me, that many people, many, many people, are what he called perfectly possessed.
	It was an idea that really resonated with me, that in essence they've made their deal with evil, whatever deal that is, they may have not said a word aloud, they did it quietly, Well, he did have the gift of discernment.
	and simply made a deal with the devil that they would be successful in life,
	that they would do well, they would get love, whatever, and that deal is well in place and working,
	and he called them perfectly possessed and said he knew them when he passed them on the street.
	Well, he did have the gift of discernment.
	Yes.
	And I can remember walking down the street with him one day when he said
	those two people who passed just were involved in a murder.
	And I kind of looked at him strangely and said, wow, how do you know?
	And he said, oh, my angels told me.
	Because I think he was trying to deflect from any sense that he had particular abilities in this direction.
	He did have the gift of discernment, which has come out in stories that people have told me about when he heard their confessions and so forth.
	There is no question that he had some sort of gift.
	I wonder, and it's a strange thing to wonder, Father, but I wonder if in fact he did have a gift that some of us would call in the paranormal realm but because of his background and because of his his devotion to the church he would just naturally attribute to something something from God well I think he certainly had the ability to perceive
	Things that we would normally call paranormal.
	There you are.
	I mean, I could see that if you were in a conversation with somebody, you might discern that perhaps they were involved in something, you know, awful.
	But to just simply pass strangers on the street and discern that they were involved in a murder, Father, that's, uh, you know, that's... That's a little unusual.
	That's why I looked at him kind of strange.
	But I want to get back to the question you asked about perfect possession.
	Possession, yes.
	The issue here is one of the will and the freedom of the will.
	And to be perfectly possessed is someone who has knowingly and willingly given his will over to Satan.
	Yes.
	Now, it's a very interesting thing that the will has a certain freedom, and this speaks to something, again, that cannot be measured.
	But even someone who is perfectly possessed, there is an element of freedom in the will, so that he can go to a priest and say, look, I made a mistake, please help me.
	But nevertheless, someone who willingly gives his will to Satan is Obviously, completely possessed by him, because complete possession implies the control of someone totally, and if you control the person's will totally, then you are, as it were, completely in the possession of the person who controls it.
	However, most people, complete Complete possession is not that usual.
	Usually people are under attack and they may be possessed or obsessed.
	it's a different situation than that sense of complete possession.
	All right, father, hold it right there.
	Including being a physician and doing surgery for 30 years and now a Catholic priest.
	I've got a very good friend who works for the Intel Corporation.
	I'm not going to give his last name, but I happen to wander out and he sent me a fax.
	Now, many people have my fax number these days, but he faxed me.
	I don't know if I told you this, but I went to lunch with Malachi Martin when I was in New York
	on Intel business about a year before his death.
	I'm still amazed he took the time to talk.
	I sent him a fax and introduced myself, mentioned I'd been a guest on your show and he agreed to meet.
	Well, you might know who this is now.
	He was very gracious.
	I met him at his apartment.
	We went to a nice nearby restaurant on the Upper East Side where he lived.
	Then went back to his place afterward and helped him a bit with a computer problem.
	I asked him twice about the third secret over lunch, but he nicely deflected the question, except he said it was very bad.
	News.
	He spent a great deal of time talking about his displeasure with the local New York church hierarchy and how the current church had strayed from the old traditional mass.
	We'll ask about that in a moment.
	And I'll tell you, the phones here are absolutely going berserk.
	So obviously there are many with questions.
	Maybe at the bottom of the hour, we'll try and start early on the phones.
	Father Kusumaras... Kumaraswami.
	I'm sorry, I have such a problem with your name.
	Kumaraswami, is that the correct way to say it?
	That's beautiful.
	Kumaraswami, okay, well... No problem.
	Sorry, it's a tough one.
	So, you would agree with that, the old traditional mass has strayed?
	Well, I wouldn't use the word straight.
	I'd be inclined to use that the new mass is a joke.
	Is a joke?
	I mean, it's no mass at all.
	And let me take just a second to point out that the reason for the increase of evil activity is related to everything that I speak of in my book on the destruction of the Christian tradition.
	It also has a whole chapter on why the new mass is... Well, you said a joke.
	Well, it's a very dubious validity.
	All right, if you can, Father, I'm a non-Catholic.
	Give me an idea of why it's strayed so far that it's a joke.
	That's a very strong and controversial statement, probably going to get you in trouble.
	Well, that probably will, but nevertheless, just consider the fact that the New Mass does not use the words that Christ specified should be used in the consecration of the host.
	They've changed the words of Christ.
	Now, for anyone who believes that Christ was both the way and the truth, to change his words takes a lot of chutzpah.
	Chutzpah.
	Just to use a good Jewish word.
	You don't stray away from controversy at all, do you?
	Well, I guess I can't avoid it.
	The other thing about the New Mass is that it's simply read as the history of the institution.
	You read it, it's like reading a story.
	And, you know, every time you read the scriptures and it talks about the Last Supper, that's not a mass.
	There is no real action, no real sacrifice in the new mass.
	And so the mass is just not effective in doing what it's meant to do.
	And how did it get changed?
	Well, I think that Fundamentally, and I go into this in great detail in my book on the destruction of the Christian tradition, fundamentally they decided they wanted to make one world religion.
	Now Malachi spoke about this.
	He said that there were three major forces underlying much that's going on today.
	The desire for a one world economy, the desire for a one world government, and the desire for a one world religion.
	Well, I'm not sure that you could have the others without having a one-world religion.
	So maybe that makes it all impossible.
	Right.
	And this, of course, is the driving force under Vatican II, the Second Vatican Council, and it's the driving force of the whole new Church, which is, in a certain sense, no longer the Catholic Church.
	And they will sacrifice everything for the sake of this unity.
	And this I go into, as I say, in considerable detail in The Destruction of the Christian Tradition, giving you just an example.
	They have virtually destroyed the apostolic succession and the making of bishops, which of course means That the priests in the New Church are not priests.
	I think you're in big trouble.
	I probably am.
	But as far as I'm concerned, they're simply not priests, and I think that this has a lot to do with the increase of evil.
	All right, since you're willing to deal with such controversy and we're talking about evil, then let's talk about some evil.
	Father, in your church there has been a tremendous amount, or so it would seem, of pedophilia.
	And pedophilia, Father, has been covered up, I think it's been proven, again and again and again by the church.
	Uh, you perhaps might want to comment on that.
	Well, I think a great deal of it has to do with the fact that the clergy are not saying a valid mass.
	If you, uh, consider the fact that when you say a true mass, that is the Tridentine Mass, you are opening your soul, your very being, to what comes from above.
	When you say a false mass, You're playing with rituals, but you're not opening yourself to what is above, you're opening yourself to what is below.
	Wow.
	I would like to tell you a very interesting story.
	I had a young girl who was possessed, and actually Malachy was the one who saw her and made this diagnosis.
	I had been treating her as having schizophrenia, And other psychiatrists had treated her for various diagnoses, but I became suspicious.
	In any event, she said to me one day, you don't understand pedophilia.
	And I was somewhat taken aback, because after all, I'm the expert.
	And so I said to her, well, tell me, what don't I understand?
	And she said the joy of pedophilia is the destruction of innocence.
	And I found that a very striking statement.
	I do too.
	Pedophilia is the destruction of innocence.
	I think that's certainly accurate.
	Yes.
	How frequently, Father, do you think that schizophrenia is misdiagnosed.
	How frequently, and I've asked others this, I have an intense curiosity about it.
	I mean, what do we know?
	We're, in quotes, normal people, and we look at these people who are talking to somebody or others, or listening to voices, or all of the rest of it, and we automatically label them, of course, as schizophrenics or crazy, but How many do you suppose might be misdiagnosed and actually might be possessed?
	Well, I can say that we know that probably 1% of the population has schizophrenia.
	This seems to be true across all nations.
	But the question of distinguishing schizophrenia from a given possessed person can be very tricky.
	And there is a certain amount of writing in the literature about that.
	If such a person gets an exorcism, no one is going to be harmed by an exorcism.
	The idea that it's going to give people trauma is just an old wives' tale.
	So that if one cannot actually And with certainty distinguish, one would certainly say in charity that one should try an exorcism, but at the same time it used to be true in psychiatric hospitals that when a priest would come in carrying the blessed sacrament and walk through a ward maybe to give someone the last rites, usually one or two people would go absolutely berserk
	And want to attack the priest.
	In cases like that, one had to say that perhaps these were possessed people rather than schizophrenics.
	Got it.
	But we don't see that anymore.
	First of all, priests don't come and give extreme unction anymore because extreme unction has been eliminated by the New Church.
	What?
	Extreme unction has been eliminated by the New Church.
	When did that happen?
	Oh, quite a while back.
	I couldn't give you the exact date.
	Then what exactly is done by a priest when he visits a recently, a person passing away or who has just passed away?
	What is it they do?
	They won't come anymore if the person isn't alive.
	They refuse to come.
	They say, we no longer are obliged to come to someone who's dead.
	I found this out.
	I was working in the emergency room.
	I had someone come in from a car accident.
	And, uh, I didn't realize that things had changed this much.
	And the person, uh, we were working on him and he died.
	And so I called the priest.
	And the priest said to me, is he breathing?
	Is he alive?
	And I said, no, he just died.
	He said, well, we don't, we don't come for people who are dead.
	Father, my wife recently died.
	I'm so sorry.
	At any rate, just for the record, my wife was Catholic, of course, and there was a priest there, and he did go in and give her last rites of some sort, and so I'm wondering what it is he did.
	Well, they have what's called a blessing for the sick.
	And, uh, it's an old blessing.
	But the sick, what do you... They call it the last rites, because people, you know, they're used to asking for the last rites.
	And, uh, they call it the last rite, but it's really a blessing for the sick.
	I see.
	So that, then that's changed as well.
	Yes.
	Yes, this is a lot of change, alright.
	Um, you would obviously consider yourself to be a very conservative Priest, is that fair to say?
	Well, I would simply say that I'm a Catholic priest, but according to the criteria of the church before the changes.
	Would fundamentalist be a proper word?
	Well, no, it's a little... I don't think there's any real need to characterize it beyond saying I'm just a traditional Catholic priest.
	The word traditional is almost redundant, but nevertheless it does describe the fact that I adhere to the old rites and so forth.
	Again, coming back to the Church's problem with pedophilia and priests, Father, why does it appear to be, and I'm careful, I'm using the word appear to be, hitting the Catholic Church disproportionately hard as compared with the general population?
	And I don't have any stats to back me up on that, so I may be wrong, but it seems that way.
	Well, I think it's because they are not Using the sacraments, because they're incapable of, as we say, confecting the sacraments.
	So it's so far off course, Father, that in essence the Church and its representatives are being disproportionately having this visited upon them in some sort of vengeful act?
	Well, I think, I don't know if it's being visited upon them, but I think...
	They seem to certainly be involving themselves in these acts.
	These acts require the acquiescence of their will.
	So I don't think it's visited upon them so much as the fact that they wish to do these things.
	Well, but wait.
	These are things that you earlier classified as evil.
	Yes.
	So, are these not the result of a larger evil impressing itself disproportionately on priests of the Catholic Church?
	I think when you don't use the sacraments which Christ established in the way in which he established them, you open yourself up to evil influences.
	Wow.
	So, you are saying that there is an external evil that is visited upon those who open themselves to it.
	Fair?
	Yes.
	I think you could put it that way.
	So you feel the church has strayed that far?
	Well, let me quote Malachi.
	He said, the new church is, in a sense, A dying institution.
	The church itself is not dying.
	The church is going underground.
	Much like it did in the English Reformation.
	But the structure of the church as we have known it, God is letting it die because it isn't working to save souls.
	That's almost a direct quote from Malachi.
	Wow.
	uh... he was really something and uh... and so are you and i i i wonder you mentioned earlier sanctions that uh... very nearly uh... about you and you and the way you fought it uh... i would think with a lot of what you said tonight that uh... how can you be catholic uh... how can they continue to allow you to be officially catholic saying these things well in a certain sense i think they would Consider me not Catholic, and certainly I would not consider myself Catholic in the sense that I am in obedience to the situation going on in Rome.
	In essence, for instance, the Old Mass, though they cover it up with all kinds of linguistic games, but the Old Mass is in essence forbidden.
	Forbidden?
	Now that's another leap.
	Forbidden?
	Right.
	I mean, they don't quite come out and say that.
	You try and get your local bishop to allow someone to say the Old Mass.
	And you can't do it?
	It's almost impossible.
	Almost impossible.
	And there could be consequences for a priest who would perform an Old Mass?
	Well, there are consequences for a priest Who performs the Old Mass.
	Now I think I should mention that I believe that Ratfinger Benedict XVI will probably allow the Old Mass to be said.
	But it's going to be said by priests who aren't ordained.
	And so it becomes again a kind of joke or smoke in our eyes.
	You've said enough things to keep this audience going for 10 years.
	Trust me when I tell you our phones are going nuts.
	So, you know, what I would like to do is allow the audience to ask you questions.
	I think it'll be very, very interesting, Father.
	I'd do my best.
	All right, good.
	Good, then stay right where you are.
	I think this will be very, very interesting.
	Father Kumaraswamy is going to take calls from the audience.
	He actually, when you get right down to it, the different accent, but you know he sounds a lot like Father Martin in most respects.
	Father, welcome back.
	Thank you.
	It'll be very interesting to see exactly... Thank you for the compliment.
	I can't think of anyone I'd rather sound like.
	Yes.
	Well, not exactly sound like, but certainly... He had a wonderful bro.
	Yes, but certainly the words that you say are very, very similar to his.
	And let's take some calls and see what happens.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Father Kumaraswamy.
	Hi Art.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Hi Father Kumaraswamy.
	Basically I wanted to, number one, offer a little bit of assistance into A demonstration on the existence of the devil.
	And, um, Art, I think that, uh, at least as far as you have said before, I think you have a feeling that there is truly evil in the world, and there are evil people.
	It's true.
	It would seem so, yes.
	And do you believe that there are different levels of evil?
	Well, I think, yes, there are different levels of evil, and there are different, uh, Well, and this was primarily for art, just as a demonstration to him, but if there are different levels of evil, and there are different levels of good, then there must be an ultimate evil, and there must be an ultimate good.
	Well, I think that's certainly true.
	And then, as far as Father Kumar Swami, a question for you.
	Do you feel that there are some perfectly possessed people who may be in the Vatican, and people who are in control of the destiny of the Church?
	All right.
	Oh, wow.
	Somehow I think you'll answer that.
	Certainly there are.
	Certainly that's a strong possibility.
	I wouldn't want to mention any names as such.
	I wouldn't want you to.
	So, obviously it's more than a possibility, and obviously you would be capable of naming names, yes?
	Well, I think one could, but I would not, for legal reasons, put my neck in the noose.
	Good for you.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Father Kumarasami.
	Hi, Father, I have a question for you.
	I have been fascinated by spirit releasements and exorcisms for several years, over 20 now, and I have a question concerning women.
	I was raised a Catholic in a convent.
	I almost became a nun, and then I became a spiritual investigator and found out there was a whole lot out there I needed to know.
	And I went a route similar to yours, Buddhism, Hinduism, and I studied a lot of Judaism, Kabbalah, everything.
	And?
	And I want to know what your feelings are about women that perform spirit releasements or exorcisms.
	I have done these things in my lifetime because the Holy Spirit called me to do it, not because I sat out there and hung out a shingle.
	And it was ruthless.
	Alright, I've got it, and it's a very good question.
	Father, women doing the kinds of things this woman has done, your position on that?
	Well, in general, we would want to get permission from a bishop to do this, and in general, we would discourage women From functioning as a priest.
	Why?
	Well, because the Church has never had women priests, and even the Blessed Mother was not a priest.
	And so... Well, at the expense of repetitiveness, why?
	Why?
	Because, in a sense, there is a hierarchy in spiritual matters, and While God Himself, in Himself, may not have any sexual characteristics as such, certainly in His Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, He is male, and He is the ideal priest.
	If you like, He's the priest of priests.
	Right.
	And insofar as the various functions of a priest involve conforming ourselves to him, then it seems inappropriate for women to function in this capacity, which does not mean that women cannot be as great a saint as anyone else.
	There's no restriction on the sanctity of women, but only on the function of women.
	Now, let me stick my neck out and ask you if there is biblical support for that.
	Oh, yes.
	For instance, the whole part of, I think it's in Corinthians, where it speaks about the fact that a woman should not preach in public, and she should have her head covered.
	There's a great deal in scripture about the role of women, but it's not to denigrate them.
	It's because women are different than men, and as such they have different functions and different gifts.
	Okay, here we go.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Father Kumaraswamy.
	Hello.
	Tim from Asheville, New York.
	Yes, sir.
	Listen to you on WJTN out of Jamestown?
	Yes.
	I just wanted to ask the Father if he agreed with this statement.
	I think it's very important that the love between two men or the love between two women is not evil.
	The love itself is not evil.
	It's when you bring sexuality into it is where the evil comes from.
	Oh, how interesting.
	I wonder what comments he had on that.
	Well, I think...
	I think that that's a good point.
	Is it a good point?
	In other words, if there was love in the traditional way that we understand love, which itself is intangible, but there wasn't sexual consummation, you're saying then you would think of it, it would not be evil?
	Well, certainly a man can love a man.
	Just as a father can love a child, or two friends can love each other, without bringing the sexual side into it.
	And I think that would be perfectly legitimate.
	I had a tremendous love for Malachy.
	There was nothing sexual about it.
	Okay, well, again, love, of course, is somewhat intangible.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Fr.
	Kumaraswamy.
	Hi.
	Yes, good evening, Fr.
	Richard here from Las Vegas.
	Art, you're the best.
	I have a question, Fr., about when the Bible was first constructed, I think it was the 3rd century, they picked from different books.
	I wonder what your feeling is about what they picked from, and how they finally resolved it.
	Well, now they resolved it, but how you feel about that resolution?
	And if I can make a quick comment, if we went back to a Latin Mass, I'd be out the door in a flash.
	Well, I'm sorry you'd be out the door in a flash.
	I feel that way about the Novus Ordo.
	Well, anyway, getting back to your question, I do discuss this as a chapter on Scripture in my book on the Destruction of the Christian Tradition.
	In the early days of the Church, many different texts were read in the Church, and some of them were of questionable value.
	And at the Council of Carthage, Which was relatively small.
	It's not an ecumenical council, but at the Council of Carthage in, I think, 793 or... I'm sorry, 390 or 370, around there.
	three or uh...
	around i'm sorry three three ninety-year-old three seventy around there
	uh... they went through all the period and uh... all the things that were read
	and uh... they picked out those that they were sure represented the teaching
	of crime And I'll see you next time.
	And these became the New Testament.
	Well, it seems to me that the New Testament is more like hearsay, where the Old Testament is more like the real thing.
	Well, I don't see why you should consider it hearsay.
	I mean, this is a fact.
	A historically proven fact that this is when the New Testament was put together.
	Yeah, but weren't they Gospels and writings of disciples who knew Jesus Christ as opposed to things that he may have actually been alive and said?
	Well, the problem was that there were heresies in those days and they often would take a writing They say a writing attributed to one of the other apostles, and they would insert passages in it which were not acceptable.
	And so, in order to be very careful to only have in the New Testament what was certain, they would eliminate things that were questionable.
	Father, Amy Melinda Wilson, You know what?
	I just read her whole name and so now I'm not going to be able to do the... Well, yes I will.
	What the heck?
	Amy says, the guest had me.
	Until he started talking about women in the roles.
	Women have been priests in shamanic religions for thousands of years and even God is female in many of them because she's the creator and giver of life.
	How dare him be so sexist?
	Well, first of all, I'm not sexist.
	I have the greatest respect for women.
	I mean, I think they're absolutely wonderful.
	Even though I am a celibate Catholic priest, I happen to have been married for almost getting on to 60 years.
	Not quite.
	I have great-great-grandchildren, so I have nothing but the greatest respect for my wife.
	I look back at my daughter-in-law, who has four children, and I am amazed at the virtues that she shows in the way of patience and love.
	I mean, it's not a sexist attitude on my part.
	Okay.
	Some view it, though, as sexist on the Church's part, as you well know.
	That's a distortion.
	I think the Church has always held women in the highest esteem because the Blessed Mother is the model of a perfect soul.
	Yes, but when you were describing why really only a man can be a priest, there was a moment there where, I don't know, I heard that You know, as I listened to you, I heard that women cannot rise to the level of faith to be able to preach.
	No, I didn't say they cannot rise.
	Because Christ was male?
	No, I didn't say they couldn't rise to that level.
	Many times women are much more saintly than men, but because the priesthood Depends upon trying our best to be Christ-like.
	It does involve maleness.
	The male.
	Okay.
	International Line, you're on the air with Father Kumaraswamy.
	Yeah, how are you?
	That's me.
	Hey, it's Michael Kahn from Minneapolis.
	Yes, Michael.
	Yeah, hey.
	Father, it's an honor to talk to you.
	I don't know if you know my uncle.
	He was on a council in the Vatican.
	He's a physician like yourself.
	And his name is Dr. Robert White.
	Oh my gosh.
	And he just retired a little while ago, but he's a former neurosurgeon.
	Do you know who that is?
	Father, do you know who this man is?
	He's a doctor who transferred, now you stop me if I'm wrong, but actually transferred heads.
	On monkeys.
	On monkeys, yes.
	He actually, actually, I interviewed him.
	Oh, did you?
	Yeah, yeah.
	I didn't know that.
	I didn't know that.
	Yeah, and I think I did.
	Yeah, I did.
	Or somebody that worked with him or something.
	Anyway, definitely he transferred heads of monkeys from one monkey to another.
	And in fact, these heads, the eyes blinked, the senses appeared to be working.
	He successfully did that.
	Now, we're going to have to turn this into sort of a science... Yeah, it's actually a question about the soul, actually.
	Fire away.
	Go ahead.
	Yeah, he did that experiment with monkeys for about 20 or 30 years.
	I think he did it probably a total of 10 times.
	And his goal, and he still is working on it, even though he's retired from surgery, but his goal is to have that done with humans.
	Because sometimes you have somebody who is brain dead, like Terry Schiavo, you know, the girl in Florida?
	And somebody who is dead from the neck down, who is paralyzed, like Christopher Reeve.
	And his goal in science is to do You know, it sounds so radical and horrible, but it's sort of like an organ transplant, but with the head.
	And so he got into a discussion, my uncle, with the Pope about where the soul resides.
	And it was my uncle's opinion that the soul is in the brain.
	And the Pope kind of looked at him and kind of just gave him a look to my uncle.
	Which Pope?
	Pope John Paul.
	Yeah, and it's in the Reader's Digest November 2002 article about this interaction with the Pope.
	But, you know, the Pope kind of got to the domain about the soul.
	I'm wondering if you have an opinion if the soul resides in the brain or where it resides.
	Well, I do have an opinion that it resides within the human being.
	Not just the brain?
	Not just the brain, located in the right or left hand or in the brain.
	I don't think I can do that.
	But I think in terms of transplanting heads, the real issue is can you hook up the thousands of neurons in the spinal cord, and I'd like to know if any of these monkeys could scratch their backside No.
	No, I think the answer to that is no.
	If I recall correctly, their spinal cords, of course, were not attached.
	However, the head appeared to be functioning normally otherwise.
	Is that correct?
	Yeah, that is correct.
	The longest he got, the best result he got with the transfer of heads was about eight days.
	That's quite a while.
	It is.
	But it did not involve connecting up the spinal cord.
	Right.
	And if you take Reese, for instance, poor man, it would be the connecting up of the spinal cord which would have returned him to a functional state.
	But he still seemed to have a soul.
	Oh, and he did.
	Once again, Father Kumaraswamy is my guest, and this is quite a controversial session.
	There's no question about it.
	Unfortunately, Father, we lost the caller who's a relative of Dr. White, but thinking about it sort of through the break, is there a possibility that the soul resides in the whole of the body?
	I was going to say, thanks to the break, St.
	Thomas following Aristotle would certainly hold that the soul is within the whole body.
	Uh, and not limited to the head.
	Uh, furthermore, uh, if we had someone come into the emergency room with massive head injury, uh, we would still, uh, give him extreme unction, uh, because we don't, uh, know just where the soul is.
	We, there's no possibility that it's just limited, uh, to the head.
	I wouldn't have thought so, having, as I said, thought about it during the break.
	Alright, fine.
	Let's keep going then.
	First time caller line, you're on the air with Father Kumaraswami.
	Hello, my name is Rick, I'm from Wilmington, Delaware.
	Yes, sir.
	I wanted to ask, do you feel that a few select people know the answer to when the end times are going to be?
	Oh.
	I thought in the Bible it said, no man shall know, but what about it, Father?
	Well, I didn't quite get the question.
	Oh, the question was simple.
	It was, uh, do you feel that there are a few select men on earth that know when the last days will be?
	Well, I can tell you that the, uh, the old church forbids anyone to give a date to that because I think, uh, simply on practical grounds, uh, they got tired of people saying the world's going to end on such and such a time.
	And, uh, The world went on existing after that time.
	Yes, but his question, I believe, went to whether there is, in fact, any man on earth, within the church or out, that would actually know that information.
	I would rather doubt it.
	We all know that the Catholic Church maintains extensive archives below the Vatican.
	Is that true?
	Are there many things down there, Father, that would surprise us?
	Well, I can't say because I've never been down there.
	Good answer.
	Do you suspect there are many things down there that would surprise us?
	I suspect there are many things we don't know.
	I'm not so sure they would be surprising.
	Let me put it differently then, again.
	Do you think that if there was information out there that as the millennia have passed, Father, that would point away from a Catholic belief, or would be evidence that would point away from a Catholic belief, that the Church would obtain it and sequester it and not make it public?
	Well, I think the Church will sometimes sequester things and not make it public, simply because it's concerned about souls, it's concerned about privacy.
	For instance, if one does an exorcism, one cannot reveal that one has done it.
	One cannot reveal the person.
	You may talk about the details.
	But it falls under the seal of confession.
	Oh, I'm certain it would, yes.
	Alright, Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Father Kumarasami.
	Hello?
	Yes, hello.
	Wild Card Line, are you there?
	Art, can you hear me?
	I can barely hear you.
	I'm sorry about that.
	Okay.
	Art, didn't Father Martin say that there was a, before he passed away, that he, there was a really bad problem with homosexuality in the Catholic Church, and Father, Wouldn't the John J report that 81% of the sexual abuse cases in the Catholic Church were homosexual in nature?
	Don't we have a major problem?
	Isn't the scandal homosexual in nature?
	And do you have any information with the mysterious death of Father Minkler in Coons of the Albany and Madison Diocese?
	I don't have any information about that.
	It is true that Father Malachy did speak of the problem of homosexuality long before it was recognized as even a problem.
	Okay, East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Father Kumaraswamy.
	Yes, is this me Art?
	It's you.
	Okay, I didn't hear you say East Coast, or East of the Rockies.
	Father, I'm Catholic.
	I used to go to Mass every day.
	I moved to this small town in Wisconsin and The priest doesn't even know the order of the Mass.
	I mean, sometimes he'll... I mean, I don't like the New Mass either, but sometimes he'll consecrate the body, or the blood, and not the bread, or vice versa, and so I just quit going.
	Oh, I think you were wise.
	I still pray.
	I do the Rosary every day and a bunch of other prayers, and I confess my sins to God, but I'm not going to go to that man.
	Well, I don't blame you.
	you. And it's, I'm, you know, I'm retired and I don't have a lot to live on, so the
	nearest church other than that is like 15 miles away and I really can't afford
	to go. And I don't like to drive that far anyway anymore.
	Well, you know, this is part of the tragedy that exists today, and I have many
	people who contact me saying, where can I find a genuine mass?
	Where can I find a real priest?
	And what answer do you have for them?
	Well, unfortunately, I don't have a ready answer for all of them.
	There are people who, there is a book published by Father Morrison, and it's on a webpage, I think it's www.traditio.org.
	dot org uh... which list where traditional masses can be found
	if one lived near one of those locations then one of course is left and one can get to be
	traditional math but by and large
	uh... the traditional math and the traditional priest uh... we have returned to the time of the catacombs
	father i i guess i'd like to understand and ask you this uh...
	If the church is not saying the traditional mass now, and you're virtually saying the church is not valid, what is it that is replacing what was?
	Well, I think, as I explain in my book on the destruction of the Christian tradition, if it's if the tradition is destroyed
	a certain vacuum is created and into this we have all kinds of new religions new age religions
	uh uh various different uh groups claiming to be a source of truth
	But my question wasn't so much what else has sprung up.
	My question was, within the church itself, if it's replaced what was traditional with something else, then what is it?
	What is the goal of what they're doing now?
	Well, it's not the Catholic religion, and its goal is Admittedly, to create a one-world religion.
	A one-world religion.
	And that's all, ultimately, I would say, part of the preparation for the Antichrist.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Father Kumaraswamy.
	Hello.
	This is me?
	You, yes.
	Okay, this is Chris from Craig, Colorado.
	Yes, sir.
	And my question is, for the Father, is what kind of evil does he think is present in the Church today?
	Well, I don't know that I can label a kind of evil.
	Certainly there is evil in the church today because you should judge the tree by its fruit.
	But when you say what kind of evil, that's a hard question because there's so many kinds.
	Not everybody in the post-conciliar church is to the same degree involved in evil.
	Some more, some less.
	It's a very difficult question to answer in terms of what kind of evil.
	The whole area is difficult because there's this silly free will thing and I don't know how you delineate between free will and external evil influence.
	That's also true.
	How do you do that?
	Well, I think you can often Get someone to tell you the degree to which they have committed themselves to evil.
	Good point.
	I suppose then you'd know, otherwise not.
	You'd have some clue.
	I mean, you may not know absolutely, but you certainly would have a good idea.
	All right.
	International Line, you're on the air with Father Kumaraswamy.
	Hi.
	Is it me?
	It's you.
	Oh, good.
	Speak up good and loud for me, if you would, please.
	How's that?
	Okay, I'm going to try to say his name.
	It's quite difficult for you, so I might as well hang it up.
	Don't try.
	Don't try.
	Just rock and roll.
	Well, I'll call him Father.
	Father, okay.
	The question I have to ask is concerning the term Father, and I'm sure that he's probably addressed this question before when the Scripture talks about how When Jesus said, call no man upon this earth father, for you have but one father, and that is God.
	And call no man upon this earth rabbi, that means teacher, for you have but one teacher, and that is Jesus Christ.
	Okay?
	Have you followed me so far?
	Yes.
	Okay, praise God.
	Now, I have heard that there was a Catholic Church that got started the term dad for a man or a woman's biological father.
	And why the Catholic Church bestowed upon themselves their priest calling himself Father, and the Pope calling himself a father.
	Maybe I'm ignorant, I don't understand.
	No, I think we get the direction of the question.
	Absolutely.
	It sounds to me like you're what is referred to as a fundamentalist, and to my mind the issue is not terribly important.
	Uh, what would you like to call priests?
	Now you probably object to the fact, uh, I'm making an assumption here.
	Now you're calling him a fundamentalist.
	It sounds like he is.
	But, uh, you probably, he probably objects to the fact that we have a priesthood.
	Perhaps so.
	He's gone now, but I mean, I was just chuckling that you were calling him a... I mean, you're a pretty fundamentalist, in a lot of ways.
	Well, in some ways, yes.
	At least, as the term was originally meant.
	But he was quite a bit further down that road, huh?
	Right.
	So, I don't know why he objects to the fact that we are called Father God.
	It is true that God is a father, but we are As it were, designated in the function of priest, and so the assumption is that we are living our lives based on the teaching of the Father.
	Well, maybe you just should have said, we're fathers with a small f or something, I don't know.
	Yes, I think that would be fine.
	First time caller online, you're on the air with Father Kumaraswamy.
	Okay, Patrick from Tampa Beach.
	I can barely hear you there, buddy.
	Okay, can you hear better now?
	Much better.
	Okay, thank you, sir.
	Listen, I detect some inaccuracies.
	Number one, Art, in what you said, it doesn't say in the scripture that it says no man knows the day or the hour when Jesus will return.
	It doesn't say no man knows the year.
	Oh, okay.
	I agree.
	With Father Samir, he says the church is against reincarnation.
	Now, in one sense, yes, but if you analyze that word, to be re... Born again?
	Reincarnated means to come back into flesh.
	And we know that Jesus is due back into flesh.
	In fact, the sign is that He is already here.
	The first time Jesus came, the blood of the infants showed that he was already here, getting ready to restore him.
	That's right in the New American Bible in Matthew 2.16.
	All right, sir.
	Thank you very much.
	Father?
	Yes?
	So you agreed with him, then, that while no man shall know the moment or something, that some man might know the year?
	Right.
	I agree with him.
	You do?
	No, I don't think anybody knows the year.
	I think if I understood his statement, no man knows the day or the time of the year.
	Well, no, he said no man knows the day or the time, but they might know the year.
	Well, it's possible, but I doubt it.
	Okay, because I was about to ask you which year, so I'll refrain.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Father Kumaraswamy.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Yes, I was married to a man that was possessed.
	Perfectly.
	And it was due to Father Malachi's book.
	There was a book review in the Minneapolis Star about his book, 1976, about Hostage to the Devil.
	Yes.
	And thank goodness, because I was about ready to go crazy because I didn't know what I was dealing with.
	And so eventually I contacted, I had been born and raised a Catholic, but I left about when I was 18.
	But I knew that they were into exorcisms and things, so I needed help.
	But when I brought the subject up to him after reading the book review, I realized that he had all the symptoms.
	I had no idea until I read that, including the non-human smell and various other things.
	So when I contacted the priest, he had a stroke.
	Well now, sir, let's cut it short.
	Are you saying you had an exorcism?
	I tried to.
	You tried?
	Yes.
	Twice.
	Twice.
	Alright.
	Do you remain homosexual?
	No, no, no.
	I've got a low voice.
	I'm a 75-year-old old lady.
	Oh, I'm sorry.
	I thought you said you were... I see.
	Okay.
	I'm sorry.
	That was my husband.
	Boy, did I... That's okay, Art.
	It was your husband.
	Hey, I get lots of action when I call up a gas station to get my car fixed.
	Oh yeah, we can do that for you, you know.
	But I think I have a tenor voice, too.
	But I am.
	I look like Bea Arthur.
	It doesn't matter.
	Alright, so your husband was perfectly possessed.
	Yes.
	In what way, and in what way did you know this to be true?
	Well, after I read the book review that was in the Minneapolis paper about Father Malachi's book, you know, Hostage to the Devil, it was listed in there You know, someone that you know could be possessed by evil spirits and you might not be aware of it.
	And then it went on to tell, you know, and I'm going, Oh my God, you know, because all these years, that was 24 years I'd been married to him.
	And I mean, I thought I was pretty intelligent.
	I knew there was something wrong with my marriage, but I didn't know what.
	And anyways, so, so what happened is that, uh, I asked him when he came home, you know, And he just looked at me, I said, I think I found out what's the matter with our marriage.
	And I said, very calmly, I think you're possessed by evil spirits.
	And he just looked at me and he went back to reading his paper.
	Well, that I thought I was going to get some, you know, when you do that to a man that's not even religious, you know, I figured I was going to really get it.
	And I didn't.
	But he just went back to the paper.
	Yeah.
	So then I did it, I don't know, I think it was a few days later, and I did it again.
	Like, of course I am, dear.
	No.
	Same response.
	Nothing.
	Nothing.
	And I'm saying, oh no, I'm in for it.
	So, you know, and there's the thing about three times.
	Well, the third time, he looked at me very seriously, very calmly, and he said, I don't know if I am.
	I will never forget that.
	And so then I propositioned him, like, let's see if we can do something about it, you know?
	And, uh, so then when I called him and I said, I don't, you know, how do I know what to do?
	So I said, would, can you pray and say, uh, you know, to the Jesus and say, Lord Jesus, help me get rid of this evil spirit.
	Well, then it happened.
	He come up out of his seat and he pointed his fingers at me.
	And what I saw in his eyes was something I never want to see, was pure evil.
	The End.
	Once again, Father Kumaraswamy.
	Father, welcome back.
	Thank you.
	Here we go again.
	First time caller line.
	You're on the air.
	Yes, hi.
	Thanks for taking my call.
	My name is Michelle.
	I'm calling from Orange County.
	Yes.
	Father, with this bird flu that's going around, I asked my doctor about it, and he said that the bird flu actually isn't a flu or a bacteria.
	It's actually a, it's transmitted through a mite.
	And that it's only with the birds now, but when it mutates it can, you know, cross over to humans.
	And I know it started over in China, and I was listening to Coast to Coast, and they had a news break, I think it could have been a year or two ago, and they had said that two objects had collided in China over the ocean.
	It was at night, and it sounded like a bomb, and that it lit up the sky for four hours.
	And where are you going with this?
	Well, I just started putting things together, and I know in Revelations 8-10, it talks about a burning mountain and a flaming star that will fall into the ocean, and the star is called Wormwood, and that it will poison a third of all the water on the earth.
	And I wanted to ask you, Father, do you believe that this has occurred already?
	All right.
	Fair question.
	Has Wormwood already done its thing?
	Well, I simply have to say I don't know.
	That's a fair answer.
	Thank you.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Father Kumaraswamy.
	Good morning, Mr. Bell.
	Father Kumaraswamy.
	Kevin in transit somewhere in Arkansas.
	Yes, sir.
	Father, I was just wondering, since you're a surgeon for quite many years, have you ever heard of any of the MRI studies on the schizophrenics?
	Where they actually, when they hear the voices, it's actually active in the part of their brain where, like, you and I are talking right now.
	Whereas, you know, if I think in my brain of, like, my mother's voice or Art's voice or anyone else's voice, it's in the frontal part of the brain, which accesses memories.
	And since I'm a police officer, I see this sort of thing all the time.
	And, well, I can also vouch for the fact that there's evil out there.
	I've stared it in the face.
	But I was manicured too.
	Have you heard about that MRI?
	Oh yes, in fact, the psychiatric literature is full of reports about MRI studies on schizophrenics.
	And it might interest you to know that the Cappadocian fathers had a theory about schizophrenia and they thought it was in the linings of the ventricles and That's where the very name comes from, because those are called the frenia.
	Okay.
	And schizophrenia, they thought the illness lay in that vocation.
	So, they didn't have MRIs, but they knew something was wrong.
	Well, that's amazing.
	Caller?
	Thank you much.
	You're very welcome.
	That was a good answer.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Father... Here we go.
	Kumaraswamy.
	I've got it.
	I can barely hear you, sir.
	Yell at us.
	Yes, hi.
	How are you doing today?
	There you go.
	Yes, I have a question.
	Actually, it's a two-part question concerning the Society of the Impious Detent.
	First of all, the first part of the question is, is the Society mass licit?
	And the second part of the question was, is John Paul II legitimate and justified in his excommunication of Archbishop Lefebvre?
	What was the first part again?
	Is the Society of St.
	Pius the 10th Mass, is that licit?
	It's not licit, but in many cases it's valid.
	The problem is that not all the priests in the Society have been conditionally reordained.
	And so if a non-conditionally reordained priest says the Mass of John XXIII, which is the Mass that they use, it would not be either valid or licit.
	Do I think that John Paul II's excommunication of the bishops is valid?
	The answer to that question is a little complex, because on the one hand they claim to recognize his authority, and on the other hand they say that his excommunications are invalid.
	All right.
	All righty, thank you.
	All right, thank you.
	Wester the Rockies, you're on the air with Father Kumaraswamy.
	Good evening, Art.
	Thanks for taking my call.
	Brian in Bakersfield.
	Yes, sir.
	And good evening, Father Kumar Swami.
	Good evening.
	I confess I haven't heard the entirety of the conversation tonight, so I hope you don't mind my possibly retracing a little bit of ground.
	I thought maybe my question might be answered by the preceding caller, but it was not, as the case happened to be, because Um, I thought perhaps, uh, that, uh, uh, you may be a set of a contest as they're called.
	Um, so I wanted to ask that.
	Um, I am a set of a contest.
	Okay.
	Um, and because you made a comment concerning the Novus Ordo Mise, um, and, uh, commented to one of the callers that you, uh, didn't blame her for not, uh, attending that mass in the absence of a, Roman Rite Tridentine Mass, and it occurs to me that that really may be doing a disservice to fellow Catholics.
	That may be so, sir, but that's his central point of the night, actually, that it is the wrong Mass, and that's everything that is wrong.
	Is that correct, Father?
	Well, the Mass of John XXIII, which is the Mass that they use, Um, is, uh, uh, if the priest is properly ordained, uh, is, uh, I think valid.
	The problem is that the right to use the Mass of John the 23rd carries with it the demand that you accept all of Vatican II and that you accept all the post conciliar sacraments as completely valid.
	Now, in the beginning, When permission was given for use of the Mass of John XXIII, you had to go down to the Bishop's House and sign a paper in which you accepted all of Vatican II and also all the new sacraments.
	That's no longer required, but it's implicit when you use or attend the Mass of John XXIII, and the Society also holds that all the new sacraments are fine.
	In fact, I don't understand myself why the society doesn't use the new sacraments if they think they're so good.
	Well, I'm not myself a member of the society, but the basic question remains, who in fact has the authority to declare that a given Pope is not in fact the Pope?
	That's the ten million dollar question.
	You know, I think the answer to that is fairly simple.
	The Pope is free to walk away from the Church.
	No one has to declare.
	If, for instance, I left the priesthood and I left the Catholic Church and became, what have you, any one of the New Age religions, I would be outside the Church.
	No one would have to come along and say, I declare you outside the Church.
	The Pope has free will.
	All right.
	And if the Pope acts in such a way that it's no longer Catholic, then one has to assume that he is not any longer a Catholic.
	First time caller line.
	You're on the air with Father Kumaraswamy.
	Hello.
	Yes.
	Hi, this is Lorraine calling from Cape Girardeau, Missouri.
	Yes, ma'am.
	I have a question for I'll do my best.
	Thank you for taking my call.
	My son died November the 11th.
	He spoke to death on a peanut butter sandwich and had a heart attack.
	And I want to know why some people have to suffer so much in this world.
	He was head injured when he was 16, and for 22 years he tried to get back to where he was, but he never did.
	And he was just starting to turn around when this happened.
	And also, do souls know when they're going to die?
	Because he was writing things like, I hope the angels are coming down on me again tonight, and I'm going again.
	I'm going real soon to see the good Lord.
	All right.
	I guess the question on suffering is first, really.
	Well, you know, suffering is something very mysterious.
	It's often said that we can't join Christ in His glory, But we can join him in his suffering.
	And surprisingly, as surprising as it may seem, suffering is really very often a tremendous blessing.
	It's what we do with the suffering that makes a difference.
	Now, some people, when they're faced with suffering, get angry at God.
	They get impossible to deal with.
	That doesn't do them very much good.
	But there are others who offer up their suffering, accept it, and as it were, go with the flow.
	And it sounds like this young man, who was visited with angels, didn't complain about his suffering.
	No it didn't, but she was.
	And her second... He was a very blessed soul.
	Her second question was interesting.
	It was, do souls know when their time is close?
	I believe they do.
	It incidentally came up recently with regard to the fear that some people have of giving extreme unction to a dying patient.
	It's been my experience after years of surgery, both and as a psychiatrist, that when patients are terminal, they know that they're terminal.
	And families come in and say to them, oh, you're going to be fine, everything's okay.
	Yeah, I know.
	And that just isolates the patient because they know that they're being lied to.
	And so I think that most people do know when they're close to the end.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Father Kumaraswamy.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	I have a question for both of you.
	Maybe you both can help me.
	This tends to run on the women's side of the family.
	We tend to see spirits and stuff like that.
	I am a paper route carrier.
	I do deliver door to door.
	There's this one particular street that I deliver on and I almost want to say it's the Grim Reaper.
	I don't know what it is, but it's like it torments me on this particular street.
	This thing has grabbed my shoulder one night as I was trying to get into my truck and I dodged it.
	It made the whole left side of my body tingle for about a half hour after that.
	And I still see him from time to time.
	I don't know what it is, but I've seen him.
	He doesn't run.
	He leaps.
	All right.
	Father, are there demons that conduct the kind of attacks this lady is talking about?
	Well, it's very hard to say because there are disturbed people.
	And you know, one has to be very careful not to call everything Due to a demon.
	Right.
	No, I just simply asked if such things have been recorded.
	If, in fact, you believe that there have been attacks by demons of that sort.
	Well, yes, I think that there have been, but I'm very hesitant to be specific about that.
	However, I think she is quite right to be fearful of this person and to take every precaution East of the Rockies, you're on air with Father Kumaraswamy.
	Hi.
	Yes, hi.
	Father, I just want to know, with the exception of using a sixth sense, of the five senses that God gave us, is there any way to recognize pure evil using sight, hearing, touch, taste, smell?
	I mean, I have come across some people that I am sure are pure evil, but I'm not quite sure what I saw in them, what I felt in them, what I smelled in them.
	You know, I mean, is there a way to recognize pure evil using our God-given senses?
	I would be inclined to answer no.
	Nevertheless, I think there are, there's something like a sixth sense when you come up against evil.
	Uh, where something just tells you to avoid it.
	Well, Father, there was a Supreme Court Justice commenting on, uh, um, on, uh, obscenity and, uh, well, maybe it wasn't obscenity, I guess pornography, and he said something like, uh, he cannot define it legally, but he knows it when he sees it.
	I think that's an excellent, uh, answer to the question.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Father Kumara Swami.
	Hi, this is Jeff from Marysville, Yuba City, California.
	Hey, you're going to have to yell at me, Jeff.
	Jeff from Yuba City, Marysville, California.
	Yes.
	And thank you for letting us, for remembering Harry Brown.
	He was, I'm a 25-year-old.
	That's the first man I voted for president for, so thank you for sharing that art.
	And on to the topic, I wanted to share that I used to be a Christian.
	I went to church.
	I was married to a beautiful young woman.
	And the truth that was revealed to me is that it is okay to be gay, that God loves me, and I do believe there is evil, but I flat-out reject evil, and I'm sorry.
	My conclusion is that it is okay to be gay, that God loves you, and the thing I'm concerned about is, religiously, it's just going hand-in-hand with politics anymore, and I'm nervous, forgive me, but anyway.
	Just slow down.
	Do you have a question, for example, in what you just said?
	You said it's okay to be gay and that God loves you.
	That's just my belief.
	I can't... Father, do you have any... Well, I certainly think that God loves him.
	I would have some question as to whether it's okay to be gay, but there's no doubt in my mind that God loves him.
	Half full there, caller.
	And I wouldn't, you know, why would I choose to be, I used to be married to a beautiful young woman, why would I, and I gave it to God, and the thing is, I feel like, you know, no matter who I would tell as a Christian, you know, that I gave to God this, you know, of course I want to go to heaven and be in the goodness and be with God and not separated from that, merely to, you know, for sexual reasons, but it's not just a sexual reason.
	I believe that I am whole and complete.
	Being honest with myself and accepted by God to be gay, and I just, and I reject evil, and I believe there is evil, and I know that I'm not evil, and that I reject evil, and that it's okay to be gay, and, um... Well, all I can say is that God told us in Scripture, He said, if you love me, you will obey my commandments.
	And, uh, He has, uh, rejected, uh, Well, perhaps you shouldn't have pressed the point.
	Can you hear me?
	Oh yeah?
	Oh yeah, that's my point, and then, you know, I'm concerned religiously because politically, I mean, this day and age, we have the churches being used to advocate, you know, our religion says this, so go out and vote this way.
	And I know we're not talking politics too much, but it does go hand in hand.
	Father, your book is available, I take it, on Amazon, probably in all the usual places?
	Yes, it is, especially on Amazon.
	Especially on Amazon.
	Okay, The Destruction of the Christian Tradition is the name of the book.
	You have really, really been something else, Father.
	I'm sure that we will have you back again.
	It's been extremely interesting, so thank you.

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