Nick Cook and Jeff Willis examine the May 12, 2024, Cave Creek, Arizona, UFO sighting—three triangular, semi-transparent lights defying gravity—with Willis’s high-clarity footage stumping Luke AFB. Cook, author of The Hunt for Zero Point, links zero-point energy research to suppressed tech like John Hutchison’s levitation experiments and Dr. Ning Li’s 2003 superconducting disk tests, funded by the U.S. Army with $500K. He speculates on classified anti-gravity projects, including Boeing’s "Bird of Prey," while dismissing fringe claims like perpetual motion devices. The episode suggests governments may be hiding breakthroughs, from WWII-era German mercury disks to today’s black-world advancements, leaving mainstream science in the dark. [Automatically generated summary]
Good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be in the world's time zones.
Prolific as they are, and covered like a blanket, every one of them, by this program.
Post-to-post.
A very much of an alternative kind of voice.
Provide them to cover at the beginning, my webcam shot this night.
Taken just a very few moments ago with my beautiful wife, Ramona, right behind me.
And so you can see the state of the room and the smile on my beautiful wife's face right behind me.
Just having to stare at my ugly mug.
Now, the Earth is being bombarded from the time I got off the air last night, actually prior to that, through right now.
Well, forecasters at the NOAA Space Environment Center in Boulder, Colorado observed a geomagnetic storm on Sunday, May 15th, which they classified as an extreme event measuring G5, the highest level on the NOAA space weather scales.
And I can certainly vouch for that.
We all got together, and we gather on 38, 40 kilohertz, on 75 meters, usually after the program.
And everybody sounded like they were underwater, which, of course, was in effect produced by the aurora, which many saw kind of a pink sky.
In fact, we had a little pinkish sky here in the desert telling you how far down the aurora reached.
So the sun is raging, even though we're at kind of a low spot in the sunspot cycle.
The sun is absolutely raging out there.
Now, last night I told you I had breaking news and that Jeff Wilkes, that's his name, had actually taken video of what appear to be the Phoenix Lights, not way back when, but instead on May 12th, just a few days ago.
Jeff and some others, for whatever reason, we're going to find out right now, they actually represent an organization, I guess, in Phoenix.
Basically, I was contacted about a year or so ago from this guy named Rob that's been studying the phenomenon in northwest Phoenix.
And we went out to his house, and sure enough, he's been getting some lights on video.
So a few months passed, and I started receiving some more emails from a guy named Josh that was seeing the objects in Cave Creek.
So we went out to the site on the 12th, and we were looking around for lights, and sure enough, about 7.30, the first set of three lights appeared, and then the far light to the right skipped across in front ahead of the other two, and then the other light went out, and it skipped again ahead of the other two.
And a matter of fact, we slowed the video down, and you can see as the light disappears and reappears in a different area, you can see it streak to that area like it's moving so fast that you can't see it until it reappears.
And when you sent it to me, you said you had not yet sent it to anybody else.
I would think this video in its own way is so startling, you probably could have gone and sold it.
unidentified
Well, see, the thing is, only the researchers that I work with have a copy of the video.
I emailed it to them earlier.
And the thing is I don't want to sell my footage really.
You know, if it's going to be on some big old documentary and they want to pay me for my footage, I don't have a problem with that because it's real UFO video.
And so it would be kind of a payback in a way because we spend so much time.
But I must say, most of my footage, when I look for footage, I spend most of my time looking for UFOs during the daytime because I do have way more day shots than I do night shots.
Now, is Phoenix, do you feel that Phoenix is obviously a continuing hotspot?
I mean, what's going on in Phoenix?
unidentified
Yeah, Phoenix has always been a hotbed for UFOs, but it comes in waves and flaps, I noticed, in different towns, too.
You know, like in 2001, or 2000 through 2001, they had the red light sightings over there in Gilbert.
And if you check, I'm sure you're familiar with, obviously, with Peter Davenport's site, but if you ever check Peter's site on the Arizona page, you'll notice the waves that they come in.
Like Gilbert will get a lot of sightings, and then Chandler, you know, they come in waves.
All right, out of curiosity, after you filmed this, you quickly called Luke Air Force Base, right?
unidentified
Yeah, well, I called them that night, and they said to call the public relations office in the morning, so I called the public relations office, and I talked to a lieutenant, and the lieutenant told me, after checking with some other people, after being on hold for about 10 minutes, they said that they had no idea what I saw.
What would you say to those who say, well, somehow in some weird way or reflection or something, he caught some kind of airplane?
unidentified
Well, that's very laughable because anybody that can see the video, like how you seen it when I sent it, the quality of it without it being all compressed, even though it's still remarkable on the website, it still looks good.
You can just tell by the way that the object moves that it's moving at such an incredible speed that if we have this and this is a secret airplane of the United States, then I think everybody can rest easy from now on because we have something out there that can totally annihilate anybody, I think.
Also, I would say that if any documentary maker wants to contact you, they should because the original video is so clear that I would think with some fancy equipment, that could be blown up without losing a lot of resolution to the point where you might make some more discoveries, definitely.
At any rate, in that little square on the front page, you can watch the video, folks.
The video is very exciting.
But in the little square, I think I can...
unidentified
Right, right.
The first set of lights, it appears in three, like it is a triangular shape.
And then the other two appear to the left of that, and as the other lights go off, as it skips across the sky, it's just amazing to watch it because it's so real.
Actually, to tell you the truth, on the video end of the UFO investigation, I've been doing it for 10 years, and I've shot a lot of day video and quite a little, you know, a bit of night footage, and this is the best, best I've ever shot.
I mean, for one thing, it's a major occurrence over Phoenix.
Now, when we have the Phoenix lights, let me go ahead and do my break and get right back to you.
Stay right where you are.
be right back Once again, Jeff Willis, and I want to again specify that I have the original uncompressed version of what you're seeing on the website right now.
You can actually run the video.
You can go to the website and run the video, and it is quite spectacular.
The uncompressed version is ever more spectacular.
I mean, it's just perfectly clear.
And I'll say it again.
Anybody who wants something really odd for a documentary, this is it.
And I think that with the proper video equipment, it could be made to even look much better because you can dig down a little without losing resolution.
So you captured one, Jeff.
Were there any other reports out of curiosity?
unidentified
That's what I was getting to.
I think it's amazing that when I taped this, that it was actually partly daylight still.
The sun was just starting to go down, so it was just starting to get dark.
So you can see in between each object, and you can almost make out a shape, but at the same time, it's kind of clear, like see-through, you know.
The sighting lasts about seven seconds, I would say.
And with the city's biggest Phoenix with about 3 million people, you would think that we would get some reports.
But I really have not done a proper investigation to see if anybody had reported this thing on Thursday night at 7.30 because I've been so busy since this happened getting ready, getting the files ready on the website.
So if anybody saw this on Thursday, I would really like you to contact me.
If you were forced to make a guess about what you obviously caught on video here, what do you think you were taping?
unidentified
Well, I would have to base it on everything that I taped up to the point that I taped that, because that puts the puzzle together for me, that this is definitely extraterrestrial vehicles, for sure.
As against the possibility of experimental United States government stuff.
unidentified
Well, because basically the way that the crafts move, I mean, I know that we could have some intelligence that could make it move rather quickly, but just what I to see it with my own eyes, to be able to see that, the only thing I can really tell you is, in my opinion, I don't think it's us at all, for sure.
And I've told everybody who ever interviewed me seriously on this topic of UFOs that, look, in view of what these craft are able to do, it's either them or if it's us, then we have technology way, way beyond anything even hinted at.
And for those who would like to see it, we've got it up on the website right now.
And you can get it in streaming form.
Now, in getting it to reasonable streaming form, knowing that millions of you would hit the site, which you're presently doing, it had to be compressed a little bit.
And I am sorry for that.
But believe me when I tell you, the version I have, which I don't know, is probably about eight megs or so, is just, it's absolutely knock you down spectacular.
So congratulations, Jeff.
What you got is obviously anomalous and deserves explanation, not that I think one will be forthcoming.
The bodies of 38 men shot execution style were found dumped around an abandoned chicken farm, a trash-strewn lot, and an insurgent stronghold west of the capital in Baghdad on Sunday.
The grisly finds were the latest in an endless stream of violence, much of it designed to destabilize Iraq's new government and hasten a U.S. retreat.
All this occurring as Rice visits Iraq.
Newsweek magazine has apologized for errors in a story alleging that interrogators at the U.S. Detention Center in Guantanamo Bay desecrated the Quran, saying it would re-examine the accusations, which sparked outrage and deadly protests in Afghanistan.
15 people died, scores injured in violence between protesters and security forces, prompting U.S. promises to investigate the allegations in Afghanistan.
Muslim leaders gave Washington three days to offer a response to the story.
Doctors were just hoping to treat symptoms when they gave people with a deadly blood disorder a drug to reduce the need for transfusion.
Surprise, surprise.
Nearly half of them had the disease go into arrest altogether.
Remember now, this is how so many good drugs are found.
They think they'll do one thing and they end up doing another.
Specialists said the experimental drug, Revlimid, now looks like a breakthrough and the first effective treatment for many people with mitoplastic syndrome or MDS, which is even more common than leukemia.
So that would indeed be a very large breakthrough.
The Yellowstone caldera has been classified now as a high threat for volcanic eruption, according to a report from the U.S. Geological Survey.
They rate Yellowstone now as 21st, you might want to know, as most dangerous of the 169 volcano centers in the U.S. Yellowstone ranking 21st of that 169, Kilauea in Hawaii received the highest overall threat score, followed by Mount St. Helens, Mount Rainier in Washington, Mount Hood in Oregon, and Mount Shasta in California.
On near which mountain, I wonder, do you live?
Here's a very interesting story called The Dark Side of the Band, and I wish I had time to read it all.
But basically, it talks about those weird shortwave numbers stations, you know, stations Where a young lady will be heard going 5, 27, 64, 33, 12.
And then she will just endlessly go on like that.
Well, interestingly, in England, where they have sort of, oh, sort of admitted that, yes, these kind of stations are there, and they're there for a very good reason.
The agency making that exclamation put an ad in a newspaper looking for, and I remember it's coming from a British intelligence agency.
It says, part-time cleaner, domestic support, £16,903 per rada.
Some of the work we do makes front-page news.
Some of it remains strictly behind the scenes.
But whether you read all about it or not, we play a vital role in helping protect the U.K. from threats like crime, drugs, and terrorism.
We want you to go under the covers in our London office and ensure it's clean and tidy.
Duties aren't set in stone, though, so you should be flexible and willing to lend a hand whenever we need it.
That's a job for a cleaner.
A cleaner for MI-12 or whatever.
Part-time cleaner slash domestic support.
Don't forget, duties are flexible and you should be willing to lend a hand whenever we might need it.
In other words, even as a duster and a cleaner, be ready to lay down your life for the mother country.
From the high desert in the middle of the night, this is Coast to Coast AM.
Open lines coming right up.
unidentified
Once upon a time, once when you were a
Thank you.
Thank you.
to talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
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International callers may reach Art Bell by calling your in-country sprint access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
Just before going to the lines, once again, I want to thank Jeff Willis for capturing for us what is clearly a second case of Phoenix Lights, not as widely seen, but no less mysterious at all, and captured in very high-resolution video.
And once again, I want to warn those of you that are going to the site that you're seeing a somewhat compressed version of it.
The original is just sparkling clear.
I mean, some of the, you know, it looks like commercial grade video.
And my feeling is that any good video studio could probably dig down quite a bit without losing original resolution and perhaps even get form from this object or objects that Jeff Willis filmed.
I'm sorry I only heard the last, well, I guess I missed the first hour of the interview.
As I tuned in, you mentioned something about the field, and tonight we are having more bombardments through the atmosphere.
This brought to mind a connection between a couple of shows from last year, and the first couple times I tried to call late last summer through the holidays.
My contribution was kind of half-formed, but it was carried by enthusiasm.
And then you finally provided what I felt was the capper to it.
And bear with me here a moment.
You had, oh, late, to meet the late summer last year, Lunick Taggart discussing her book about the zero-point field.
Correct.
And I was enthralled because it was so close to my Lumen's theories that I'd pieced together through my life.
The symmetry won't quit because there was a moment from last night and tonight, which was the field, and he's talking about the atmosphere, that brought to mind a connection between three shows last year, and this would be two triple crowns.
And I'm just going to chew away my customers so I can give you my full attention tonight.
Well, from last year, when you first had Lynn McTaggart on, like I said, I was enthralled, and I had to call.
I didn't have much to say.
Matter of fact, the first time you ever answered the phone, these drunken revelers stumbled into the street in front of me.
You answered the phone, I went, I'm flustered.
And you said, okay, which was about all you could say.
Two weeks later, you had on Chief, I believe the last name's Becker, who was the holographic, not holographic, the lie detector tracings.
And about five minutes into the interview, I was like, well, this is the field at work.
Certainly it could turn out, God help us, that we would be at war with Islam.
Nobody wants that to happen.
I noticed the President in all his statements has been extremely careful to delineate between the terrorists, the small number of Islamic terrorists, and Islam itself, the larger Islam.
We don't want a war with Islam, and I hope it doesn't turn out to be that.
On that note, you know, personally, I tend to think that most of them are UFOs as well.
And don't you think that...
Correct.
Yes, extraterrestrial craft.
And with that thought in mind, as long as the government, I don't doubt that they do have experimental aircraft, but as long as people have been reporting seeing these triangular-shaped craft, if they were U.S. government, I mean, I would think that we would have used them somewhere, tested them somewhere Americans would have seen them.
About, well, I know it's exactly 40 years ago because the night before 9-11, you had happened onto something on the radio with the numbers, random numbers.
It was a man giving them.
And you played it quite a while.
And then what has kind of bothered me for all these years is about two weeks later, there was a newscast saying that they had raided one of the apartments in Boston of the suspected terrorists.
And they said that in one of the pairs of trousers that they located there in the apartment, sewn in one of the pockets was a small strip of paper with random numbers on it.
I mean, numbers are used as codes by terrorists and by our government and the British government, and people have been trying for years to figure out what these numbers stations exactly are.
There are those, for example, who think they have something to do with the use of nuclear devices only in some number of years.
For example, there is a very intriguing station that's at 46, 25 kilohertz.
46, 25 kilohertz.
The same station on that frequency has been broadcasting the same signal for 20 years.
A buzzing tone repeated 25 times a minute, which has earned it the nickname the buzzer.
And it's located about 30 kilometers northwest of Moscow.
Apart from the buzzing, 4625 has only broadcast voice messages twice in all of those years.
Why the frequency is being reserved is a total mystery.
One avid listener, a shortwave enthusiast who served in the Canadian military, suggested, quote, it is a last reserve frequency reserved for extreme emergencies, such as just prior to the potential outbreak of nuclear conflict, end quote.
Fascinating stuff.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hi.
Hello.
Going once, going twice, gone.
First time caller line, you're on the air.
Hi.
unidentified
Hey, Art, how you doing, Tim from Chandler, Arizona?
I think everybody would agree the world is in trouble with respect to energy.
We all know we're in trouble.
Big trouble, actually.
And one of the very first things usually mentioned as something that might come along and save us is this so-called zero-point Energy.
My guest tonight, Nick Cook, wrote a book called The Hunt for Zero Point.
Nick Cook is an award-winning defense and aerospace journalist who for the past 15 years has been aviation editor and aerospace consultant of the world-renowned trade publication James Defense Weekly.
Nick is a regular contributor to the Financial Times and has written for numerous newspapers in the United Kingdom.
His analysis was sought by UK, U.S., and other world news media during the 91 Gulf War and the 99 Kosovo conflict.
In his 18-year career, Nick has visited the world's leading defense establishments and has gained access to numerous top secret military facilities and bases in the U.S. and former Soviet Union.
In addition, Cook's two-hour documentary for the Discovery Channel, Billion Dollar Secret, detailed for the first time the inner workings of America's classified weapons establishment.
In a moment, Nick Cook will begin reading totally classified documents to us.
The End Now, naturally, I was kidding about the classified documents.
However, if he wants to read us a few, that'd be fine.
Here later today, we're expecting 50 mile per hour winds.
So the weather's getting pretty wild.
Nick, you know, I think it would be worth a few moments just talking about zero point itself.
Now, at this point, zero point is really, I don't want to say it's a myth, but it's a hope, it's a dream, but we can't put our hands around it yet and start running the power plants from it yet, right?
I mean, I think it is more than safe to say that the idea that this zero-point energy field exists and that it is teeming with subatomic particles that flash in and out of existence.
I mean, that is the concept of zero-point energy.
That idea is pretty well rooted in science.
The problem, of course, that we all face is coming up with an engineering solution to extract that energy from the vacuum of space in meaningful quantities.
Because that energy soaks everything, of course, it is very difficult to get to.
So I think the concept that it is there is undisputable.
The challenge from here on in lies in extracting it.
Well, there are a number of experiments that have been carried out.
I mean, one of the probably the best known is the Casimir experiment.
Now, some people do dispute whether the Casimir experiment, which basically involves the placing of two plates, flat plates very close together, metal plates very close together, separated by an infinitesimally small distance.
Now, the pressure of the vacuum of the zero-point energy field presses those plates together.
And that, in most people's eyes, certainly the supporters' camp, definitively proves that there is this thing, the zero-point energy field.
Now, of course, others do dispute this, but in general terms, I think it is accepted that the zero-point energy field stemming from that experiment is shown to be valid.
And it's difficult to say definitively that what Tesla was tapping into, again, was associated with the zero-point field.
But the zero-point field does appear to underlie a lot of these manifestations and effects that appear.
For example, I know some of your I'm not so familiar with Tesla.
I know lots of people have made very, very in-depth analyses of what Tesla did.
I kind of like to quote John Hutchison because I have made a study of John Hutchison and I think he's familiar to many of your listeners.
I mean, John is a Canadian, he's an inventor, he lives up in Vancouver, and his work, which basically involved the John set up an amazing laboratory in which he used many, many different types of equipment, beaming energy into a localized area to manifest effects.
Now, those effects stemmed from levitation.
They stemmed from a molecular kind of disruption of the metals and materials that he put into the zone of influence.
There were moments In which those materials appeared to be there and disappear, almost as if for a while they were there but in some other dimension, perhaps.
I think it is a field that is there to be tapped into.
And I do know of some inventors who claim to be doing this.
In fact, I've seen enough data from what they have been doing to believe that they are doing something interesting.
It's difficult to be definitive at this point.
But I think it is also a subtle thing as well.
I think it may underpin concepts for non-local intelligence, for being able to a medium by which perhaps we are able to do some rather extraordinary things like remote view.
Perhaps clairvoyance might have some of its origins in the way that non-local intelligence is able to be transmitted instantaneously from one place to another.
Well, I just don't and have never had explained to me adequately what it is that's being observed here.
Of course, I built this as an antenna, not a gatherer of any sort of energy.
Thank you very much.
I didn't expect nor want it.
But this antenna is fed up at 100 feet, and then you're talking about 3,200 feet of number 10 wire on 13 towers.
It's a very, very large antenna, Nick.
And on a clear, calm day with no clouds and nothing going on in the atmosphere to account for it, there's well over 300 volts that's constantly on that antenna, which will shock the you-know-what out of anybody who deems to touch it.
And we have experimented to some degree with it, rise time.
For example, you can take it and ground it, and then the next instant that voltage is right back as though there was no build-up time.
It's just there, baby.
And Nick, I had to go to extraordinary measures to protect my equipment from this voltage in terms of grounding, DC grounding, and all the rest of it all the time.
24 is always on ground.
Has to be, otherwise the voltage would kill the equipment I've got.
So I don't know what that is.
I don't know why it's there.
I don't know where it comes from.
I don't know why it's manifested, but it is there.
I've done some investigation, Nick.
I've talked to electric companies, for example, because they have long, unterminated, sometimes lengths of electric cable that they're not using.
And my theory is that there would be a similar buildup on miles and miles of electric cable.
And sure enough, there is, Nick.
The electric company regards it as a pain in the neck, and they ground such long runs that are being unused for that exact reason.
But as though it's kind of like everybody knows there's something there, but nobody quite knows what it is, and they just treat it as a pain in the neck because they're trying to pass electricity or receive radio signals or whatever.
And as I said, the electric company, of course, well, they're not trying to collect electricity.
They're trying to sell electricity.
So they just ground such long runs and don't think another thing about it, which is probably standard electrical practice anyway.
But they do know about it, Nick.
And others know about it.
And I don't know where this power is coming from.
There have been theories about, well, maybe the ionosphere or atmosphere in some way is collecting an electrical charge from thunderstorms that are always going on in the southern hemisphere and distributing them through the atmosphere.
That could be.
It could be a capacitive effect between the Earth and the antenna or wire.
It could be a Lot of things, or maybe it could have something to do with some power source that we don't understand, you know, like something called zero point.
Well, I think that's the key point there, and it's so valid to this subject and others linked to it, is that there are things out there in the realm of physics that we don't understand.
You know, I'm a journalist.
I'm not a physicist or a scientist, but when I went to school and studied, there was this kind of view put out by my teachers that we pretty much kind of know everything that there is to know about physics.
And only really when I dipped into doing the research for the Hunt for Zero Point, did I realize how little we actually have fathomed about the realms of science, the realms of physics.
And there is so much work that is being uncovered daily and on such fundamental issues.
Well, of course, if you talk to the zero-point energy proponents, they will say that it is the mass's movement through the zero-point energy field that induces a reaction from the field, which triggers in the mass, in the atomic weight of the mass, a gravitational force.
Well, Nick, you're apparently privy to quite a bit of secret information.
Something that I've always wondered about, and I know many in my audience have as well, is the famous tether experiment.
I mean, you mentioned the movement, and of course, you'll recall the shuttle released a tether, and it was very long and was reeled out and suddenly produced this incredible voltage that virtually destroyed the tether.
You know, just severed it at the point where it came together with the shuttle.
It was an incredible amount of energy.
There's never been another word about it.
There's never been a suggestion to repeat the experiment, as far as I know.
And there certainly has been no explanation about the amount of energy they received that literally destroyed the tether.
I mean, we all specialize, particularly at Jane's, we specialize in various sexes, spheres.
Mine is aerospace.
Now, that's predominantly air-breathing aerospace, stuff that flies within the atmosphere.
Of course, I'm familiar with the tether experiment, but I've never done, to be fair, an in-depth analysis on it.
But, you know, like you, I've picked up on those stories and I've wondered about it, but I would hate to mislead your listeners by saying I had an inside track in it, because to be fair, I don't.
The amount of electricity was so astronomically larger than what their expectations were that for them not to have commented further and or done another experiment or given us an explanation means to me that they know something we don't, a big something that we don't.
That tether was traveling at a great speed, and I guess they got it low enough to begin to perhaps even dip into a little atmosphere close to it.
I don't know.
But it was a remarkable find, Nick, and I'll bet you somewhere there's some sort of secret document marked Tether top secret.
Well, I'm hoping that in X year's time when someone does a little Freedom of Information Act digging, they might finally get to the root of it.
There is a lot out there, as you know and document on the show, that happens that we just, in the military sphere, of course, that we as yet have only skimmed the surface of.
And even doing what I do, which is working as a correspondent on the very edges of a massive sprawling defense industry, there are unbetween things which I come across which I know are rooted in heavy, heavy secrecy and which I'm just skimming across the surface of.
It's intriguing and it's frustrating at the same time.
From Great Britain, my guest is Nick Cook, and his book is The Hunt for Zero Point Indeed.
Should we be able to find and then harness zero point, as Ronald Reagan said, it certainly would be morning in America again.
You know, it seems to me that anybody who writes for, you know, the Financial Times, Jane's Defense Weekly, these kinds of very conservative, well-respected publications, and then ends up writing something like Hunt for Zero Point.
I mean, you've got to wonder how that's going to come out with, I don't know, your friends, your colleagues, the judgmental part of the world.
Well, I think anyone will know from having read the book, those that have, that I was very anxious about documenting this 10-year kind of journey of discovery because it, as you say, went into some pretty esoteric areas.
However, I am delighted to say that because of, I think, the way that I laid out my discovery process, which was on a very kind of sceptical basis,
that what I was able to show was that I too came from a very, very skeptical background on this and was able to overcome that scepticism and prejudice.
And as a result, I think, what has happened is that I've been very fortunate in people have responded to that very well.
And thankfully, I'm still with James DePence Weekly, and I'm still doing work for the Financial Times and others.
The reaction has been very good, Art, I'm delighted to say.
And even people within the aerospace industry have responded to it extremely well.
Well, he used basically he was charging a capacitor positively on its upper side and negatively on the lower side.
And what that induced was a reaction which drove this disc-shaped capacitor, interestingly, the shape of a disc, towards the positive pole.
In other words, it drove the disk to rise upwards.
Now, he calls that a gravitational reaction, an anti-gravity reaction.
There is, however, unfortunately, there's a very polarized view about that.
It's recently cropped up again because of interest in lifter experimentation.
Again, I'm sure your listeners have come across these lifters, but basically they replicate the Brown effect, although they look completely different.
These are balsa wood models made out of a balsa kind of frame Construction with aluminium foil.
Again, you charge a wire positively on the upper side, you charge the foil negatively, and these lifters will rise.
Is that an anti-gravity reaction?
Many people, I tend to agree with them, say that it is not, that it is something called iron wind, the flow of molecules over the foil, inducing, if you like, an aerodynamic type effect to the aerodynamic lifter.
And I've witnessed lifter levitations and effects, and it is a bizarre experience.
This thing crackles with energy.
There's this kind of ozone-y kind of smell around it.
It is very dramatic to watch.
It's crackling with ionization.
And it's very easy, I think, to say, yep, that's an anti-gravitational reaction because it looks so strange.
But at all times, it behoves us, particularly when we are moving in this world, to quantify these things, to be skeptical, to be rigorous.
These extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, and we need to be rigorous.
For my money, Pounds and Brown's work, as interesting as it is, is not definitively an anti-gravity effect.
Others, I think, are inducing anti-gravity or gravity-reducing experiments.
I'm referring to the superconducting camp.
Again, some of your listeners may be familiar with the name of Dr. Eugene Podkletnov, a man who was experimenting with superconductors and who found almost by mistake that objects suspended above this rotating superconducting disk were losing some of their weight.
I don't think there's anything that challenges the validity of the measurement, although, of course, what we all really want to see is someone replicating that experiment out in the open.
Now, what is, to my mind, persuasive is that you're not just getting one individual, Pod Kletnov, out there saying that he's achieving this effect.
You're getting multiple people throughout the globe, at least half a dozen people, saying that they are experimenting with superconductors and getting interesting results.
Now, back in May of 2003, I attended a two-day conference in Washington, D.C., which was interestingly underpinned with Defense Department money.
And at that conference, a lady by the name of Dr. Ning Li, who had been employed by NASA and is a very credential scientist, was effectively saying the same thing, that her work in superconducting, rotating disks would lead to considerable weight reduction effects, but also energy generation effects.
She was talking about 11 kilowatts of energy.
So it's not just Podklepnov.
There are others who are independently saying the same thing.
And that, to my mind, is persuasive, particularly when these people are credentialed, they have a lot to lose career-wise and going on the record about this.
Well, obviously, in the Hunt for Zero Point, I very deliberately put the whole UFO thing on one side, Art.
But that's not to say that I'm leery of discussing the UFO phenomenon.
Actually, I'm not.
And I'm given kind of confidence in being able to discuss it by the fact that I've recently come across a lot of papers written within the aerospace industry itself.
A very interesting one, actually, came my way a couple of weeks ago from McDonnell Douglas.
Now, McDonnell Douglas, as I'm sure you and your listeners know, doesn't exist anymore.
It was overtaken by Boeing several years ago.
But this paper, which was written by a McDonnell Douglas engineer in the early 1960s, is seriously, it's a 40-page paper, is seriously promoting within McDonnell Douglas the idea that UFOs should be studied from an aerospace perspective to gain insights onto their propulsion methodology.
Now, whatever I may think about UFOs, and by the way, I do believe that the phenomenon is real.
Well, what I was trying to drive through, though, is if you heard this scientist make this statement in an open conference, then why should we not imagine that in the secret locations like Area 51 near me or all over the world there are others, work is not far, far advanced in this area already?
Well, I know what the black world is capable of on a conventional level.
I've seen the stealth revolution.
I've covered it firsthand.
And I know that what drives the black world is a sense of vision underpinned by a great deal of money and a freedom, if you like, in which to pursue visionary projects.
Now, if you put all of that together and couple it to a zero-point energy anti-gravity type mindset, it is inconceivable to me that the high payoff that is promised by that research would not be undertaken, looked at, and covered within the black world.
What I have to be careful of, though, is saying I have seen no proof that it is being done, and I haven't.
What I have seen proof of, particularly in recent months and years, is that the white world of the aerospace industry is showing increased interest in zero-point energy and anti-gravity.
I have seen, for example, that the U.S. Army has pursued its own Thomas Townsend Brown experimentation.
And it's there.
I found it on the U.S. Army's website looking at their research and development activities.
And that was within the last couple of years.
I've also seen, and it's fascinating, this one, that the U.S. Army Redstone Arsenal, where they develop advanced concepts, for example, for ballistic missile defense, employed Dr. Ning Li, this Chinese-American lady who had been playing around with superconductors.
And incidentally, Ning Li was saying that one of the effects she got from this, that she aimed to get from her superconducting discs, was a force-field beam, which would be able to deflect objects.
The U.S. Redstone Arsenal in Alabama was looking and paying Ning Li to further investigate those concepts.
But in this uncertain era in which we live, this era of massive asymmetric threat, to use the core parlance of the Pentagon, wherein you can get 9-11 type incidents dramatically overturning the status quo in an instant.
What you are looking for as an antidote is a truly transformational weapon system, something that totally leapfrogs the state of the art.
Now, something like Ning Li's force field beam, which incidentally as well was reflected by Dr. Eugene Podkletnov working over in Finland, who was saying exactly the same thing.
If you can deploy that beam, point it into space, deflect a rogue incoming nuclear warhead, or for that matter, somebody you consider to be the bad guy, his satellite, you can do extraordinary things.
Things that to a simplified eye would appear nothing short of magic, but which actually is firmly rooted in some pretty far-out science.
So all of these things, I think, are now on the agenda.
That's why the Defense Department is looking at transformational weapon systems like this, like microwave weapons, lasers, and other directed energy devices.
In fact, she was paid, her company was paid half a million dollars by the U.S. Army's Redstone Arsenal to further develop her superconducting rotating discs specifically to develop these force field effects.
Well, this is an interesting one because uh I met and interviewed her uh at this uh conference in Washington uh two years ago but and she was quite forthcoming.
Um she didn't want to discuss her uh military work.
She struck me as an enlightened individual who would like her work to be done for uh peaceful purposes, but she's caught between the devil and the deep and the deep blue sea and that she knows that the best, perhaps the only means of short-term funding is through the military.
But what she was saying was that she was very close to developing hardware and that this anti-gravity hardware.
Yeah, this is uh a force-field beam, um what uh what Pod Kretnov terms a pulsed um uh anti-gravitational beam to uh which would which which she was saying would generate 11 kilowatts of energy.
Now, in an initial application, that's quite a lot, but in it.
Well it is, but but with what kind of uh input to achieve this you are uh you're talking about a um uh a a jolt of electricity into the influence of the superconducting disk of a couple of million volts so to get it going to get it to you you're literally you're no you're sending this this it's a it's a pulsed beam it's a it's a it's a zap if you like
yes um but this this pulse is generated by an intense burst of electrical energy which is then fed into the uh into the into the superconductor which is inducing these strange um anti-gravitational or or or gravity shielding effects and you are sending that pulse along a linear path uh of some considerable distance.
In a moment, I think we'll ask Nick an interesting question.
I wonder, he got a document, a secret document so secret, confirming everything that he thought was true, that they asked him not to release it.
I wonder what Nick would do.
After all, writing for the kind of publications that Nick does, one could imagine that somebody deep in a black project somewhere for the good of the world suddenly might, well, you never know, feel that they've got to release some sort of very secret document that probably ought not be released.
So let's imagine they slip it to our friend Nick here.
And this document is the classified smoking force field of the world.
I mean, it just, you know, lays it all out, exposes the fact that we've investigated and found the source of zero point and have utilized it in anti-gravity devices in some way.
I mean, we've got some mature technology that's absolutely secret, and they come to you and knock on your door, Nick, and they say, for queen and country, son, you've got to keep this to yourself.
Well, there are different categories of secrecy, Art.
And, you know, doing the job that I do, I always have to apply a filter to anything that comes my way.
I mean, part of the filtering process is to be very rigorous about the evidence.
Another part of the filtering process is to weigh whether the information that comes to you and whether you ultimately put out in the pages of a magazine or wherever is going to damage national security.
Now, I'm a Brit, but I'm a patriot, just as anyone in a sensitive position in America would be.
And I have to be very careful with some of the information that I come across, because I don't want to endanger anyone's life or operational security any more than the next person.
So therefore, if you got a document like this, Nick, and then they appealed to you on the basis of queen and country, national security, not to release the information, what would your inclination be if you were in that kind of a pickle?
If it was information that was going to jeopardize national security or someone's life by my releasing it, then I wouldn't do it.
I wouldn't do it because I'm not in the business of doing that.
If it were a piece of information that was sensitive because it was politically embarrassing or it said something which the establishment did not want out, let's say, for example, that someone had thrust a document under my nose saying, we have anti-gravity devices, they're being tested at Area 51, and here's the proof.
I would not consider that, I'm afraid to say, a militarily, operationally sensitive piece of news.
And I would really have to be persuaded that that was going to endanger someone's life by my putting that information out there.
I imagine that, for example, the military might stumble across a technology that, on the one side, from our point of view, could be an energy source that could really help the world.
However, from a military point of view, it could be a weapon or a shield or a who knows what that would have a great deal of very urgent military capability.
Unfortunately, releasing the energy that drives this thing would give the weapon away.
So I don't know what the military would do in such a case, but I just have a feeling they might not hand it over to industry right away.
Well, I have certainly, for example, in my daily work at James Defense Weekly, I have come across information either in the form of documents or what perhaps someone has told me that at the back of my mind, well no, actually at the forefront of my mind, I know is going to be operationally sensitive and could endanger life.
And I'm talking about here things like, you know, you can imagine in a magazine like Jane's or any actually trade magazine covering the aerospace and defense industry that we get information quite a lot about things like the frequencies of radars, the frequencies of radio signals, very kind of pernickity details, if you like, about how weapon systems work, which in the hands of a potential adversary could be put to use for them, the adversary.
I am very careful about disseminating that information, as I say, because it's a technical consideration more than anything else.
But if it's a political sensitive fact, the reason for the secrecy is merely to cover something that could be embarrassing or could be secrecy for its own sake, then I put the story through those same filters.
But chances are when I've done all the checks, ticks and balances, I will know that this story is safe to publish because no one's life is going to be endangered by it.
Well, we're all interested in the environment and climate change and the impact that it's going to have on the planet.
Professionally, it's kind of on the periphery of where I am.
And yes, of course, I've noticed that you in the States have a more perhaps jaded eye cast on the effects of CO2 emissions and other pollutants on the atmosphere.
I think it's just a cultural thing.
We in Europe tend to be more tuned into that kind of thing.
And I think soon, though, Art, if some of these scientists are right and that we are undergoing a period of irreversible climatic change, that the effects of those changes, obviously they're not localized.
They're going to be manifest everywhere.
And I think as that evidence mounts and develops, that debate is going to become centered in the U.S., just as it's now very much alive over here.
But I don't get it from my own media, national media.
I mean, if an ocean current has slowed to a quarter of what it was with global implications, it just seems to me that's worth a line or two of U.S. print.
And I'm just astounded at...
I mean, somehow I've always, frankly, thought of Britain as more likely to keep something secret than my own government here.
I've made I've done a great deal of study on secrecy and the nature of secrecy.
And what I found is that here in the UK, there is a tendency to kind of make secret those things that don't need to be made secret because it's just easier to set in place a bureaucracy where you restrict the flow of information.
In the States, I found that up to a certain level, the flow of that information is very free.
I get probably much more from the DOD in terms of generally releasable but still quite sensitive information on military technology than I do from my own government.
But what I do see, though, is that you get up to a line in the States when it comes to secrecy, the line that is drawn very firmly over classified technology and systems.
And that line is watertight.
It is a system that has been put in place, as you know, it's been operating for half a century or more, which is specifically there to protect military secrecy, like the compartments of a watertight ship.
And those compartments are so securely defined, it is very difficult, of course, for any one person to get a big picture of what the overall system, if that's what you're talking about in terms of a military secret, is.
And I found that in the States.
I've encountered it in a number of fascinating instances.
I've been into places like the Lockheed Martin Skunk Works, a place which is renowned for its kind of black program work.
And I've butted up against the black world in that sense.
And it's a regime which I find fascinating for all its kind of paradoxical qualities.
But there is a point beyond which in the States you just cannot go.
So then somebody like yourself has to look to these scientists like the Chinese one you mentioned, a Chinese lady, who make sort of drop statements at certain places and times in the public.
And you have to attach perhaps more meaning to them than their brief utterance would indicate.
But there are moments in space and time when information does surface.
It happened, as I'm sure you know, in the atomic process when discussion of fission was free and easy in the twenties and thirties leading up to the Second World War.
But as people, as scientists realized that a bomb of awesome power was potential from the development of fission physics, that debate was stopped.
It was stopped and cut dead in the United States for that very reason.
And there are moments, too, here when discussion of things like perhaps even zero-point physics is allowed to surface and circulates freely, but suddenly it stops.
Well, when I say off the planet, people have been trying to get in contact with her, me included, for the past two years since she surfaced at that conference.
And she is number unobtainable, absolutely impossible to find.
And again, that may be a misreading of things, but it is certainly very curious, and some would say suspicious, that this lady who is financed or was being financed by the U.S. Army to come up with transformational weaponry potentially has suddenly disappeared off the face of the globe at a time when her experimentation was tipped to be yielding some very interesting results.
Well, there are various people keeping track of the number of scientists working in some perhaps areas of interest to the U.S. government in biology that have just suddenly and mysteriously died in various ways.
And there are quite a number of people keeping track of the numbers, which seem unsettling.
Of course, you don't know what the normal attrition rate would be, but the numbers do seem unsettling.
And I wonder if a little of this might be going on here.
I think the difficulty that the government is going to come up with is that there is a great, I think, yearning or kind of willingness for this technology, which is being tinkered with now by the inventor community, is put to good use.
And I think we are now much more, as a society, jaded about the intentions of the military, the intentions of government, suppression of technologies.
People who say they are getting demonstrable results from zero-point energy devices that pull soon, I think, useful amounts of energy from the vacuum and say that they want this to be put to good use.
Yeah, you know, Nick, these great minds tend to come up with ideas fairly in a synchronous way.
I mean, if it's in the black world, then probably somebody like a John Hutchinson out there is going to stumble into or discover what's being worked on at a much more secret level.
And one has to wonder what would be the fate of somebody stumbling into a technology that perhaps the government doesn't want stumbled into.
Well, again, it would depend very much, I think, on what that individual had stumbled onto.
As you mentioned, this activity is very synchronous.
It's popping up now all over the planet, and it's linked by the Internet.
It's very difficult to suppress.
And I think that if you want to suppress it, the way to do that is to pour scorn on it sooner than actually resort to drastic action like kind of rubbing out your the scientists who are involved in it.
So I think one would, if the government had a mind to do this, it would employ a more subtle range of techniques based on disinformation, ridicule, those sorts of things to delay the onset into the public domain of these kinds of activities.
So it could just be that a scientist who had stumbled into something incredible might have just a terrible run of very bad luck and bad publicity and bad happenings in his life, so distracted that he couldn't really pursue what he wanted to pursue.
I think, sadly, unfortunately, you know, a lot of people who are involved in this area are quite kind of suspicious and perhaps even paranoid by nature.
And a few kind of I'm not tempted to say bad apples, but a few of these guys who tend to dwell on the bad things that have happened to them in the process of developing or trying to develop hardware tend to give out the impression that they are being hounded by government operatives and they are about to be, their lives are in danger or whatever.
And I'm not saying that in some cases they aren't true, but I think there is a wider temptation by the general public to believe that that is prevalent.
And certainly in my investigations of these things, I have not come across that level of paranoia and secrecy.
He writes for James Defense Weekly, the Financial Times, lots of very conservative, interesting publications.
So he runs into a lot of interesting technology or the hints of it.
One Chinese scientist that he's been following, that is working for us, of course, working on something that might add up to anti-gravity is suddenly, well, missing.
Well, it's been an extraordinary ride, Art, the past couple of years.
And actually, when I wrote the book, I fully intended that I would go on to do something else.
I would go on to some new project in some totally different arena.
But what I found is that it just keeps on pulling me back.
And in fact, finding myself in this position, in being this kind of almost unwittingly, this connection between the inventor community and the world of aerospace and defense that I report on, has meant actually that I can't escape it.
In fact, what I have done is I've actually set up a company, and if I may, I'll just give a website address for that because it's called www.highfrontiers, all one word, .co.uk, which is designed to act as this kind of connecting nexus between those two worlds.
Because I've just been getting so much interest from the aerospace and defense community coming to me and saying, tell me more about this zero-point energy stuff.
Ask Nick for a direct email address to contact him about a topic of interest.
Now, that means that somebody out there has some piece of information they want to get you.
And I'm sure you get an...
It's like, I don't know, it's like trying to solve a crime for the police when they put out a tip line.
I mean, if you give out your email address, you're going to hear from every inventor and brother and sister and relative of every inventor who thinks they've got the, you know, the real thing.
But what I want to be able to do is to act as this facilitator, if you like, between those two worlds.
And anyone who does have a particularly, I'm talking about developments in hardware that prove a demonstrable effect, if they want to email me at info at high frontiers, all one word, dot co.uk, we've just set up the website.
It'll be up and running properly in a week or two.
But there's an initial capture site there.
They can register their names.
They can register their interest.
And at the appropriate time, in a few weeks' time, we will be able to get back to them and enter into this dialogue.
And I'm really setting this up not just for the inventor community, but for anyone who has an interest in the subject from any community.
I mean, just to give you an illustration of the wild kind of ride that's been going on these past two years, last year I was invited down by some people in Costa Rica to go and brief the Costa Rican government on zero-point activities.
Costa Rican government, which Costa Rica is an interesting place, it doesn't have, for example, any armed forces.
And it's able to plow the money that it would otherwise spend on defense into some quite innovative areas.
I mean, they were looking to set up a kind of a community area which would allow for the development of these technologies.
So, you know, I'm very happy recognizing now that I can't disassociate myself from this book which has just taken off and run, I'm delighted to say.
And, you know, www.highfrontiers.co.uk is aimed to be this facilitator, which will enable this dialogue to, I hope, reach a wider audience, particularly in conventional areas, because I'm very interested, I feel very driven, actually, to break down these barriers between these two worlds.
Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Nick Cook in Great Britain.
I'd like to remind everybody, you've got to kind of ask your question and then pause because we have a built-in pause going all the way to Great Britain.
Well, clearly, the Egyptians had something going that we still are unaware of because they moved blocks we can't move and did things we can't do yet.
So that's an interesting sort of angle on all of this, Nick.
Instead of looking forward and into the secret nooks and crannies, it may well be that the past, whether it would be an old man in Florida at the Coral Castle or the Egyptians building the incredible things they did, maybe the answer is long ago.
Well, I agree to an extent that there are mysteries in the past which certainly do need to be explained.
And it certainly may be that there were things known to the ancients which have been forgotten to us today.
For me, an interesting illustration of this is the recurrence in Vedic texts of the use of mercury as a medium for an engine for crafts that the ancient Indians, the people who wrote these Vedic texts, would talk about in some length and to some detail.
Now, mercury, interestingly enough, has cropped up again and again and again in my research.
We see, for example, we haven't talked about this very much, but during the Second World War, when the Germans research that I uncovered in the Hunter Zero Point, the Germans were working on some extraordinary devices, one of which was a thing called a bell, which had a mercury-like substance in it, which was rotated in two counter-rotating disks at great speed and induced what appeared to be fluctuations in the space-time matrix.
Now, you get that resonance with the VDIC texts all stretching way back thousands of years in history through to the German period during the Second World War.
And now there is emerging research which says that mercury in certain heated-up states acts like a superconductor.
And strange and magical things happen, like, for example, weight loss induced by gravity shielding effects, getting us back into the realm of Dr. Pod Kletnov, Ning Li, who are again playing around with conventional superconductors who are saying the same thing.
So all of these things tend to link up.
And some of them, as Ron has observed, go back, the links to them go way, way back in history.
So I think there are some interesting lessons to be observed.
We need to be very careful and very rigorous, though, about how we make those claims and how we investigate them.
There was an article in Pravda which is really out, pretty far out, but interesting.
It's called Time Can Be Turned Back.
You might have seen it in your rumblings around the Internet, but Pravda really did print it.
And it says that eight years ago, American and British scientists who conducted investigations in Antarctica, this may not be perfect, it's a translation, made a sensational discovery.
U.S. physicist Marianne McLean told the researchers, and they all noticed some spinning gray fog in the sky over the North Pole, the exact North Pole, on January 27th, which they believed to be perhaps just some sort of ordinary storm.
However, the gray fog didn't change form, nor did it move in the course of time.
The researchers decided to investigate the phenomena, launched a weather balloon with equipment capable of registering wind speed, temperature, and air moisture, but the weather balloon soared upwards and immediately disappeared.
In a little while, the researchers brought the weather balloon back to the ground with the help of a rope attached to it previously, and rather surprised to see the chronometer set in the weather balloon displayed the date of January 27, 1965, the same day 30 years earlier.
Well, this story did come across my desk, and so I'm aware of it.
Now, having said that, I bet it's the same for you, Art.
If you had a penny for every one of these stories that came across your desk, and you could verify them, you'd be a very rich man by now, and so would I. The difficulty with these stories is that they surface, they on the outside look very interesting.
The difficulty relates to the fact, though, that there is rarely Any verifiable backup to say that they really happened.
And one of the things that I really wanted to do in the Hunt for Zero point, and I think one of the things that people have responded to very well about the book, is that everything that's in there is quantified and backed up by evidence.
And where it isn't, I say it's not.
But there are very few places where there is no evidence to support the fundamental data.
Rotating RF fields and magnetic fields, absolutely fascinating stuff that would seem to sort of fit into the same general description of a lot of what you talk about when you're talking about zero point and some of the experiments going on.
And I mean, the Philadelphia experiment is a great case in point about a myth or a story that won't go away.
And on the surface, to someone like me, and certainly when I was initially investigating, doing the research for the Hunter Zero Point, the Philadelphia experiment, on the face of it, is something that I wouldn't have touched with a barge pole.
Any discussion of a ship that disappears into the ether, no way.
But when you look into it, you realize that the myth may be hiding some very valid research.
Just based on the fact that the Germans were sinking our ships trying to get across the Atlantic in droves, the death toll was horrible.
And we really wanted a way to make ships virtually disappear.
And so I wouldn't be surprised that something like that was definitely worked on.
And while I don't buy everything connected with the Philadelphia story as told by some today, there's some basis of truth in the nugget of all of that.
And again, in The Hunt, I do discuss at some length how these stories surface, how they more often than not do contain, where the myth is really strong, at least a grain of truth.
And I think that is the case in the Philadelphia experiment.
I do think it related to a radar stealth experiment.
And I do believe, by the way, that there may have been some strange phenomena manifestations which the original experimenters weren't counting on when they were evaluating this technology purely from a radar stealth perspective.
So and what's interesting too is that I've encountered more recent research which shows that others were working in the same area.
The Germans, there is a story going around.
Again, it seems to be based on some quite valid research that the Germans also had their own version of the Philadelphia experiment.
And certainly when you look at, I mean, I mentioned a moment or two ago the experiments done by the Germans detailed in the book about this contra-rotating device down a mine, which appears to be creating fluxes in the space-time metric.
Those sorts of stories are also associated with a kind of Philadelphia-type experiment that the Germans were doing in Kiel, Germany, during the latter part of the war.
I haven't been able to locate it myself, but I think someone who's known to your show, a guy called John Dering, who I've interviewed and found very plausible and persuasive.
I mean, John works for a highly reputable aerospace company over there in the States.
And John's research into areas like the Philadelphia experiment and the German equivalence of the Philadelphia experiment, I found to be very persuasive.
And he is convinced that there is fire where this smoke exists.
It does relate to a ship which was fitted with these intense electrical generators, and aspects of the story resurfaced.
Not the whole full-up, you know, the ship disappeared into a different dimension, people were fused into the decks of the ship, none of that stuff, but enough of an echo there, but distinct from the Philadelphia experiment to show that the Germans were working in the same area.
As I said a moment or two ago, this a couple of years ago was a subject that I thought that I would leave behind and move on into new areas.
I just thought I would just continue off into some new realm of research.
But it's pulled me back to such an extent that I've even actually had to take on support staff here to respond to the overwhelmingly amazing kind of responses that I've had about the book.
And one of the kind of drivers behind that is now to get 1000.2 out.
And obviously, I can't go into it in any great detail because I wouldn't want to spoil the impact Of the book, but there is a tremendous amount of new information that's out there.
On that note, here, we're going to pause at the top of the hour and continue to take questions for Nick Cook.
I didn't know the next book was about out.
95% done, but he can't talk about it.
We'll make him talk about it.
We'll be back shortly from the high desert.
I'm Art Bell.
unidentified
On a morning from a forgot movie In a country where they turn back time Because strolling through the crowd like Pizza Laura contemplating a crime She comes out of the sun and
it's up-dressed Right now White pepper fly or she will die White pepper fly or she will die The sun sets
low, the sun sets low The clouds float by, the air turns slow And the angry times do always glow And she must fly She will die She will die She will die She will
die To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
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From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
Well, as I said earlier, this past couple of years has just really been this amazing kind of ride.
And I found myself kind of caught in this kind of roller coaster, which has taken me to all these wonderful and exotic places that I really never expected to go before I wrote the book.
So to a degree, the format of the first book will certainly be continued.
It will be very much my personal journey, the places that I have visited, the places that I'm able to take the reader to that are perhaps beyond their most people's, you know, I'm very fortunate doing what I do, which is working on the edges of the aerospace and defense industry, to go to some very strange and exotic places.
And that journey goes on, and there'll be more of that in the second book.
But there were two fundamental questions which were left unanswered at the end of the first book, and those need to be answered when I write the second.
The first was, show me a zero-point energy device that works.
This thing is generating usable amounts of electricity in a low output form at first, but I have no doubt that it will continue to develop greater amounts of useful power, but certainly enough at the moment to power a laptop indefinitely.
I can't, because for the moment I have sworn to the individual that I'm going to maintain a discrete silence on it.
But we have agreed that the workings of the device can be and will be detailed in the book.
So I hate to be kind of, you know, I hate this to be a tease, but that was one of the fundamental questions that I needed to have answered before I wrote the second book.
Now, I haven't done that yet, but I believe that there are two or three candidates out there that are currently in the hardware development and demonstration or about to be coming up to the demonstration phase,
which I am hopeful at least one of them will demonstrate to me that visible effects, anti-gravitational effects, are out there and possible to see.
And, Nick, this is a very interesting subject, and I wanted to know what you guys thought about how this might relate to the intense magnetic, geomagnetic storm that happened last night.
If in any way, I got home last night, I looked up into the sky, and it was one of the most intense Aurora Aurealis that I've ever seen in my life.
Well, I don't know that maybe it does in some way relate.
I really don't know.
Nick, we are having an intense geomagnetic storm.
Last night, at about this time, it was really raging unbelievably.
I don't know that there's really any direct connection to your work, but I suppose the geomagnetic field is loosely connected to it all in some way, perhaps, huh?
That caller was probably in more of the northern latitudes, but it doesn't matter.
I mean, we had a pink sky here down in the desert.
I'm rather south, as it were.
And so it was a worldwide event.
The sun really let loose with a full coronal discharge, and it was earthbound directly and hit our magnetosphere, and we had quite a display of lights and so forth.
Yeah, I mean, I've witnessed the Aurora Borealis up in Canada, and it's a fantastic sight.
To be honest, I don't know how this would link in, if at all, to the main area of my research, except, of course, that we do know through programs like HAARP, the atmospheric experiment that the DOD has been conducting up in Alaska, that manipulations of the ionosphere are possible.
But to me, it's symptomatic of what we discussed earlier, which is that the DOD is interested in what would previously have been described as exotic science to gain transformational leaps, quantum leaps in capability beyond where we are at the moment.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Nick Cook.
Hi.
unidentified
Hello.
Nick, you may know me another name.
I wrote the Space Daily piece as the Air Force Enemy of Space and the Sudan Publius Rex where I railed against John Jumper, so be on the lookout for an email from me.
There seems to be two schools of levitation out there, two camps.
You've got your Larry Smalley slash Ningley spinning death school and the Ventura Lifter folks.
I know of one individual in the Marshall Space Flight Center I think would like to speak to you, so be on the lookout for an email from Publius Rex.
I have one concern.
I think that rocketry research may be undermined if all this turns out to be an illusion.
Besides, a true zero-G environment with no electronic signature might be best.
If you tried to, say, grow graph plating in an artificial zero-G environment generated by other graph plates, it might be like holding a mic up to a speaker.
You just get feedback and tainted results.
So hopefully we won't use this to undermine heavy lift rocketry research, especially tonight.
They're going to be building both EELVs up here in Decatur, my way.
It's like they're going to be building both the Atlas V EELV and the Delta IV up in Decatur.
I think what's really sad is that it seems like we've been distracted on jet airplanes like this $200 billion joint strike fighter fiasco for so long that...
Well, either that or they could be fooling themselves or they've stumbled onto something that, like I said, something that it might have a small effect, but if you wanted to build a true zero-G research lab in a natural zero-G setting, you would have something where you could actually grow graft plates, where if you tried to have a graft plate and grow other ones, it would be like holding a mic up to a feedback, Luke.
I just hope we don't undermine our heavy lift rocketry research, especially seeing both Boeing's sea launch and the Lockheed Martin Atlas V use re-engines that wound up, you know, that started off being used on the inner gear Baron's space shuttle.
No, I think we need to be very clear about what's happening here.
Certainly in the white world, what we are seeing in terms of manifested effects is at a very early and rudimentary stage.
This is stuff that's going on In a laboratory.
And certainly, in terms of applying that, if indeed we get to points where we can get usable amounts of force field from these devices, is a considerable way off.
I don't even want to go into the kind of whole black world arena because if it is in the black world, then it's compartmentalized and secured away so tightly that we're not going to see that for decades to come.
But with these things that people like Dr. Ning Li and Pod Kletnov are doing in the laboratory, how they get applied to weaponry or indeed more applicably to spacecraft of any description is some considerable way down the pike.
So we need to develop, to continue developing what I call conventional technologies.
I've tried pretty hard, and I know some people who've done some research for me and for themselves who've tried even harder, and they are just getting a serious, serious blank.
So if she's listening, if she's out there, I wish she'd register on the website, www.highfrontiers.co.uk, and I'll be the first person who'd like to talk to her.
Well, of course, it would be very convenient to say that she's made a breakthrough and that the breakthrough is so stunning that her work went immediately classified.
But certainly given the direction of her talks, the fact that she was saying when I interviewed her that she was poised to develop a device which would generate 11 kilowatts of energy, I mean, that is a pretty significant breakthrough.
And if she was on the verge of it and achieved it, because of the truly out there nature of that breakthrough, it would be transformational, it would be a quantum leap.
It would not surprise me if that were suddenly shut down into the realms of classified activity.
But one needs to be careful about this stuff because she might just have dropped out for a completely different reason, which is maybe she's got family problems or she doesn't want to involve herself in this research anymore.
But it certainly looks, given all that interest and the money that was being invested in her by the U.S. military, by the U.S. Army, it seems kind of odd that she's just dropped off the face of the earth.
West to the Rockies, you're on the air with Nick Cook.
unidentified
Oh, you don't know what a thrill this is, Art.
Nick Cook.
First of all, I've got to comment on what you were talking about on the Philadelphia experiment, and then a question, and I'll get off and listen on the air.
My father worked at the Philadelphia Naval Yard through the entire Second World War.
And towards the end of the war, when those so-called Philadelphia experiments were going on, he came home one night, suddenly announced that he had quit his job at the Naval Yard.
He was white as a sheet, and he just told my mother and us four boys that he quit because he looked forward and thought he was going to be laid off as soon as the war was over.
And then I myself spent 27 years in the Air Force, and when I was in Spain, and here comes the question on his anti-gravity, and going back to the past for the answers, I went to Segovia in Spain, and they had an aqueduct four and a half miles up into the mountains,
each stone sitting on top of one another with no cement or anything else, weighing about a ton a piece, 800 feet in the air that was built, they said, in 500 BC.
Now I can see personally, and I've been in a quandary ever since I saw that amazing thing, which is still being used, as to how, other than anti-gravity, finding a way to have anti-gravity, how they could build such a structure bringing water from 4.5 miles up into the mountains down into the town of Segovia without having had the answer to anti-gravity.
I mean, the short answer is, of course, there are many places in the ancient world where you see that kind of ability to construct those edifices reflected.
I mean, you see them in South America, you see them in ancient Egypt, you see them, well, Segovia in Spain is a new one on me, but you see them all around the world.
I don't know enough about it to be able to say definitively that they'd tapped into some knowledge which we don't have access to routinely anymore.
unidentified
It was astonishing.
It looked like it was built yesterday.
The stones were as white as could be from the day I guess they were put up.
And the other thing is I almost forgot my father would never talk about the real reason that he quit working as a supervisor building ships in the Philadelphia Naval Yard.
There are many things that are just inexplicable that have happened in the past that would seem to suggest that some technology was known or understood that's been forgotten or is very black today.
I mean, there are undeniably things in the black world which are quantum leap gains over where we are today.
They may not be in fields as radical as the ones that we are talking about to be deemed worthy of ultra-classification.
I mean, one that I've been looking into recently, and which I hope underpins what an earlier caller was saying about how we really need to be very careful about pursuing these technologies in parallel.
But I've been looking into hypersonics, the ability of aircraft to fly at speeds in excess of Mark V. That work is going on now faster and in more depth than at any period in U.S. military developmental history.
In fact, there are White World demonstrations planned to get a hypersonic cruise vehicle flying within about eight years.
But there are enormous technical challenges involved in that.
I mean, we tend to blithely say, oh, you know, a plane like Aurora must have flown because I was just about to mention Aurora.
Yeah, well, you know, I'm a believer in Aurora in the sense that something was tested and flown.
I don't think that it was put into long-term operational service, but I've seen enough evidence to think and believe that some kind of capability was tested.
And I think it was put up there for a short while, the concept was validated, and it was then kind of boxed away and mothballed when satellites were shown to be able to do the job more cheaply.
Because, of course, particularly in today's era of more constrained budgets, that sort of activity is really frowned upon, overlapping activity when you've got satellites to do the job just as well.
I've spoken to people in the Air Force about past experiments in that area.
There are a number of ways of achieving it.
Boeing, interestingly, flew an aircraft during the 1990s, which they called the Bird of Prey, out there at Area 51.
And the Bird of Prey was an extremely unusual-looking aircraft.
And part of the rationale for making its shape very distinct was to fool the human eye into thinking that you were looking at something else.
Now, there are other ways of achieving optical invisibility, and certainly this is one that I've been told about by Air Force insiders, is that you coat your aircraft with a kind of a polychromatic film, which has sensors embedded in it, as well as electrical devices, which are able to change the colour of the skin to mimic the background.
If you're looking from below, it will mimic the sky background if you're not going to be able to.
final segment coming up so if you've got a question now's the time Once again, my guest from Great Britain, Nick Cook.
Nick, I get these wonderful little computer messages as we go zooming along in the program, and Glenn in Seattle, Washington asks Nick if he's heard any rumblings on advances in the field of teleportation.
I'm sure he's had his ear to the ground in search of antigravity and may have stumbled across something interesting in the field of teleportation.
Actually, a friend of mine, a guy I know quite well called Dr. Eric Davis, wrote a teleportation study for the U.S. Air Force and published this towards the end of last year.
And it caused a great deal of furor in the business.
I mean, for a start, people were wondering why the Air Force might be funding research into the teleportation arena, you know, connotations of Star Trek and the beamy Up and down Scotty device.
But Eric is a very serious and credentialed scientist, and actually, as I understand it, his paper went more into the kind of, it was more like a kind of remote viewing aspect of teleportation.
In other words, it was kind of talking about bilocality, how you can be in one place physically, but you can psychically, I suppose for want of a better term, view your surroundings in a remote location.
So it was that aspect really of teleportation that Eric was addressing.
But the fact that the Air Force is funding this stuff to the tune of, I don't know, $200,000 maybe, shows that people out there, it's what I'm saying really all along, is that people are looking in the government and in the military for unconventional solutions to today's rather unconventional threats and problems.
So they're looking to gain those kinds of edges from wherever they can in the science community.
And if there's a breakthrough to be had, then these guys want to go out and get it.
Quickly, I would like to get your point of view on something.
I work in the aerospace industry, specifically with helicopter company.
And I noticed in the NASA budget just recently, they've reduced, almost eliminated, the NASA AIMS research when it comes to rotorcraft technology, specifically blade design.
And since you've been talking about levitation technology this morning, I was wondering what your views are of this cutback in resources for this part of the industry.
Well, I think that I know that there is tremendous competition for what is increasingly becoming a scant and not in the days of the Cold War, you had a pretty much limitless R and D budget.
Nowadays, of course, there is immense competition for all the many areas of research that the aerospace industry and the Air Force and NASA behind them have to undertake.
I don't know the reasons for cutbacks in helicopter blade technology, but I can imagine that it's probably fallen foul to some priority in another area.
I mean, for instance, I mentioned earlier that what the U.S. Air Force and NASA and others now are looking at in great depth is investing more money in hypersonics, speed regimes in excess of Mark V. Now, you can't get those kinds of gains, which are incredibly difficult to master technologically, without robbing from another part of the research and development budget.
And so I imagine that that is what has happened here.
It's not that what is being done at NASA AIMS there is not a priority.
It's just that something else has surfaced which is a greater priority and funds have to be allocated to that.
unidentified
Yeah, I kind of thought that since you're talking about all this new technology, I just believe in some manner that our government has a big hand in this type of development.
I was just thought it was a curious current now that you've been talking about this type of technology.
Yeah, you know, a lot of things were created by out of the garages and stuff like that of, you know, like the Apple computer and, you know, Microsoft Started for Nothing and stuff like that.
Basically, have you ever heard of what is called the floating bed?
Well, I tell you what, if you want to register onto my website, www.highfrontiers.co.uk and register your name, I will get back to you and we can have this discussion about this technology because I'd really like to know more about it.
The question I have for Mr. Cook is if he's ever investigated or done any research into the gravitational propulsion like sites on Google or whatever, and if he has, has he found anything that seems viable?
However, after that last caller, I think we've got the answer.
What I found when I've done my research on Google and elsewhere is that there are a lot of very bold claims out there.
People say that they've got a theory or people say they've developed something.
The difficulty, of course, is transcending this into firmly documented evidence.
And for me, the ultimate litmus test, the acid test of all of this, is to be able to see something that flies.
I've seen a lifter fly, but as we discussed earlier in the program, it is highly debatable whether that is a pure anti-gravitational effect.
I suspect not, sadly.
However, they are very dramatic to watch.
What I want to see and what I hope to be able to see certainly this year, I'm monitoring a number of very interesting projects out there, is something which defies the laws of gravity, certainly, and maybe even the laws of physics as we understand them in the form of an experiment.
And it's that demonstrable proof that is so elusive in this game.
But I think it's out there.
I think it's coming.
I think it's ultimately a very hopeful message.
So, you know, I'm convinced in the not too distant future, we will see something that's demonstrable and that works.
Those are all really good questions, and I don't have the answer to them, particularly with reference to the amount of current available.
I don't have that answer yet, although you can bet we're going to investigate.
So I would think that it's all a matter of scale, and if my five acres of wire is picking up that kind of voltage, then one would imagine higher and longer wires would pick up yet more.
I don't know.
First time caller line, you're on the air with Nick Cook.
I haven't met Tom Bearden, but we have been in some dialogue over the years.
As you may or may not know, I mention Tom Bearden's meg at the end of the Hunt for Zero Point.
The significance of it at the time I wrote about the MEG was that the U.S. Patent Office had just accepted a patent application on it.
And as I'm sure you know, the Patent Office is very leery about accepting patents on devices that are either so-called free energy devices or perpetual motion machines.
So the mere fact that they accepted that patent for Tom Bearden's MEG device struck me as extremely significant.
The pity is, is that since then, we haven't seen any commercially derived hardware stemming from that theoretical breakthrough.
I hope that it's coming.
I understand that it's been bogged down as much by commercial differences between the partners involved in that venture.
But I'm certainly involved in discussions with people like Tom who have developed similar devices.
So I know that they're out there, and I think Tom Bearden's doing great work.
And I hope that his MEG achieves the success that it deserves.
A few years ago, when the Russians put their first spaceship up there, the very, very first one, the Sputnik, I worked for an engineering company.
We were going to work for the tank arsenal, and a bunch of the engineers and I were all talking about it.
And I mentioned to them, I said that if you have a copper coil around the spaceship as it passed through the magnetic field of the Earth, it would generate electricity.
And I think that's the same principle that maybe Tesla had if he had the high towers up in the air, the same reason why Earth's getting electricity from his towers.
There is a lot of smoke surrounding that particular fire.
But when I did the digging, fully expecting not to find anything, I was encouraged to find that there were some very secret activities underway during the Nazi period, during the war, funded by the SS,
not the mainstream armed forces, which were looking into power plants that could have propelled disc-shaped craft.
Now, where are these disc-shaped craft?
Well, funny enough, actually, I do know a guy at the moment who is doing some quite interesting digging into former top-secret Nazi research sites in the Czech Republic, who is hopeful of finding some interesting technology down there.
He's also actually looking to raise funding for his dig.
So, if anyone wants to get involved in that venture, again, log on to my website, register your interest, and I can put them in touch with this guy who's really done some great work actually in validating a lot of this very top secret work into German advanced propulsion techniques.
If you get a call from somebody, Nick, who says they've got the Holy Grail and you become sufficiently, I don't know, convinced by evidence tossed at you by whatever means, email or however you're lured in, do you actually get in an airplane, travel and look at devices?
And I wouldn't dream of putting anything in the book or in the new book that I haven't actually personally gone out and validated face-to-face myself.
Of course, what you have to do is there's so much information out there, and so many people, you know, I'm delighted that so many people have got in touch with me, but of course I can't follow up every lead physically.
So I employ the filter.
I find out which inquiries are based on, first of all, theoretical advances, which are based on hardware.
And it's really the hardware stuff that I'm interested in, because anyone can talk up a theory.
What we need to do is see hardware that works.
And I think, actually, Art, that what will happen is, because this is so out there, it's so on the edge, that people tend to be, or seem to be, developing, certainly in the zero-point energy generation side, hardware in advance of the theory.
The theory is so sketchy that things, that manifestations of these effects are being pulled from wherever.
Let's call it the vacuum of space or the zero-point field.
But there is no good fundamental theory underpinning where these effects are coming from.
And I think that what's going to happen is eventually science theory is going to catch up with the hardware and will map out what's going on here.
But for the moment, we are really, to a very large degree, swimming in the dark.
And I found a stunning similarity to what's going on politically and what's going on with the German technology with the Third Reich trying to take over the world utilizing such a thing.
My research, and again, this will be detailed in the follow-up book, let's call it the Humphrey 0.2, is going to, I hope, really kind of take the lid off that very compartmentalized, very secret, but very fundamental research into some of the things that we're talking about here.
Advanced propulsion, they were into directed energy weapons, but all of this activity was contained in an environment not dissimilar to the way that the black world has been set up today, in a very highly compartmentalized way, very difficult to access, and in a way that history has not documented.