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April 17, 2005 - Art Bell

02:54:31

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Bill Sweet - Prayer and Healing (Spindrift Research)

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01:18:02

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Speaker	Time	Text
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Desert and the great American Southwest.
unidentified		I bid you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be in the world's multiple political time phones.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Every single one of them covered like a blanket by this program, post-to-post, AMI Mark Bell.
		An honor and privilege to be escorting you through the weekend.
		And man, it ain't over yet, folks.
		What a show I've got for you tonight.
		It's going to be mind-boggling, and I'll tell you all about it in a moment.
		The webcam shop tonight is a little different.
		We have one of our four cats, Abby, our oldest one.
		He's 15 now, as a matter of fact.
		He's the one who actually had his own NDE.
		You know, he stopped breathing and all the rest of it.
		And the amazing vet brought him back to life.
		It's a very long story.
		But anyway, that photograph is of Abby who likes to sit in our laundry room.
		This is his joy.
		He sits in our laundry room and goes, ow, ow, and he likes to hear the echo off the walls.
		Well, those are relatively small walls in the laundry room.
		And so every now and then we take him out.
		We have a racquetball, indoor racquetball court.
		Hey, pretty nice, huh?
		And that photograph is of my lovely bride, Ramona, and Abby.
		Now, you see, when we take him out to the racquetball court, there, a cat who lives to hear his own little meow voice really can live.
		I mean, there is an echo in there that won't quit, and he loves it.
		He gets in there as it whacks its way off the walls in the racquetball court.
		So that's what that picture is.
		That's one of the times we took him in to let him hear his own voice times however many echoes you get in there, a lot of them.
		All right, now, with respect to tonight's program, I'm really, really, really looking forward to this.
		The book is a journey into prayer.
		It's about some experiments that have to do with consciousness and prayer.
		And it's not a religious thing, if that's what you're looking for.
		I suppose there are aspects of it, but not really.
		This is a book written by a fellow named Bill Sweet, who, by the way, is an amateur radio operator.
		And so he's very pragmatic.
		And he wrote about these two men, actually a father and a son, a Bruce and John Klingbile, father and son team.
		And he wrote to me in his own handwriting, after their mysterious unexpected suicides between the 7th and 12th of May of 93, I, as then president of Spindrift, spent years haunted by their memories.
		Alas, 12 years later, the Klingbile Spindrift story is now to be told.
		A journey into prayer would come across to your listeners as a spiritual ex-file and a tale of the way the politics of prayer and parapsychology sometimes work.
		I suggest reading the epilogue on page 235 first, and I will read that in the next hour, assigned Bill Sweet, KF9DK.
		An extra class amateur operator, I might add.
		And these two men ran consciousness experiments.
		Perhaps one too many.
		I don't know.
		But this story is untold and absolutely and truly remarkable and goes hand in hand with the whole consciousness realm that we're examining.
		You're well aware of the experiments I ran, so successful that I stopped them voluntarily and have not resumed them.
		I am convinced beyond any shadow of any doubt that this whole power of consciousness thing slash prayer slash whatever this spiritual world is is absolutely real.
		The power of prayer is real.
		You know, it's proven.
		Scientific double-blind tests have well proven it.
		And you can pray for flowers.
		You can pray for people to get well.
		You can pray for a lot of things.
unidentified		And it has power.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Don't ever doubt it.
		And if you did, then listen tonight to a really eerie story.
		That's what's coming up in a moment.
		No, let's do it now.
		Get it out of the way.
		The world news is never good.
		Ruskin, Florida, a registered sex offender, has confessed to killing a 13-year-old girl who disappeared a week ago, saying he got into an argument with her and choked her to death in her home.
		The sheriff said somebody, that would be David Anscott, 36, was charged with first-degree murder a day after investigators found Sarah Lund's partially clothed body in an abandoned pond, Hillsboro County Sheriff David G said.
		So it seems as though there's no end to these horrible things of people, little girls, children being kidnapped and murdered.
		This is why I hate reading the world news.
		A woman who led an effort to help those ravaged by violence in Iraq fell victim to the war herself when a car bomb has killed her and two other people on Sunday.
		Maria Ruznika, founder of the Campaign for Innocent Victims in Conflict, herself became one, died Saturday in the blast, which also killed an Iraqi and another foreigner.
		Bringing their suitcases and personal views on the future of the church, the cardinals who will select the next pope settled in their rooms Sunday in the Vatican Hotel that is going to now be their home into the world's 1.1 billion Roman Catholics have got a new leader.
		The conclave starts Monday after the 115 red-robed cardinals join a formal procession into the Sistine Chapel where efforts to maintain the secrecy of their deliberations now include installing jamming devices to foil sophisticated eavesdropping equipment.
		Wow.
		My personal view is that we're going to get another conservative pope.
		Pope John Paul picked, hand-picked the cardinals, and they're rather conservative.
		He made sure of that.
		So my bets would go toward a German conservative pope.
		Just a wild guess.
		Iraqi security forces, backed by U.S. troops, had the town of Medane surrounded Sunday after reports of Sunni militant kidnappings of as many as 100 Shiite residents.
		But apparently there were growing indications the incident had been grossly exaggerated, so not 100 kidnapped, yet they don't have a number for us now.
		Here's a weird one.
		A seven-story wave, that would be a rogue wave, damaged a cruise ship returning from the Bahamas over the weekend.
		It smashed windows, flooded more than 60 cabins, injured four passengers.
		The Norwegian Dawn was diverted from its route when the ship ran into rough weather.
		On the way back to New York on Saturday, the 965-foot-long vessel docked in the Charleston harbor for repairs and departed for New York early Sunday after a Coast Guard inspection.
		Was back in New York by noon on Monday.
		Can you imagine that?
		A seven-story high wave.
		These rogue waves are more common than the world knows.
		Satellites, as a matter of fact, did a recent confirmation of that fact, that these rogue waves are far more common.
		And I think if you talk to people who have been in the Navy, they'll tell you it's true.
		And sailors live in fear of these gigantic, sometimes 150-foot-high waves that seem to come out of nowhere for no particular reason.
		Kaboom, even to a large cruise ship like that, potentially devastating.
		So it broke windows, and a lot of people got water in their cabins, and I'm sure they were quite shocked.
unidentified		We'll be back in a moment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very shortly, we will begin open lines for the balance of this hour.
		So if you have something you'd like to get on the air, something of intense interest to the audience, then you might want to start dialing now.
		Indonesian scientists have placed 11 volcanoes under close watch after a series of powerful quakes awoke intense subterranean forces and increased the chances of a major eruption.
		Well, that figures, huh?
		In the Sumatra area, where, of course, now they've had two extremely major quakes, one with an associated tidal wave, tsunami, that killed, whoa, 125,000 or 30,000 people, a lot of people.
		The fact that these volcanoes would be awakening is not a great surprise, now is it?
		Tens of thousands of people have spent yet a third night in temporary camps after fleeing the slopes of Mount Talang on Sumatra Island, where hot ash has been raining down since Monday.
		How'd you like to have that hot ash raining down on you?
		On Wednesday, Krakatoa was put on alert status amid warnings of poisonous gas emissions.
		A similar warning earlier issued on yet another island near the West Java city of Bandong, which will be next week hosting more than 50 heads of state, probably 50 very nervous heads of state.
		As a matter of fact, Eugene Island.
		Now this, I'm going to read you this story, but I don't frankly put much credence in it, but I'm open-minded.
		And so I'll read it to you.
		This is what's going around right now.
		You can tell me whether you believe it or not.
		I don't.
		I'll give you what I feel might be the explanation for this, but I think the overall conclusion is way wrong.
		Eugene Island is an underwater mountain located about 80 miles off the coast of Louisiana in the Gulf of Mexico.
		In 1973, they struck oil.
		An offshore platform, Eugene, 330 feet, was erected.
		The field began production at 15,000 barrels a day, then gradually fell off, as is normal, to about 4,000 barrels a day in 1989.
		Then, a surprise, it reversed itself and increased production to 13,000 barrels a day.
		Probable reserves have been increased to 400 million barrels from 60 million.
		The field appears to be filling from below.
		And the crude is coming up today.
		Well, it's from a geological age very different from the original crude, which leads to the speculation that the world has limitless Supplies of petroleum.
		And it goes on.
		This is some of the stuff that's running around the internet today, and I want to take issue with it.
		I think what they claim here certainly is possible.
		That is to say, that a field that began having only reserves of so much has somehow released an adjacent field, or perhaps one below, or whatever.
		And this particular field is refilling on that basis.
		But I don't think for one second that the world's oil reserves are replenishing themselves, that something deep within the earth is just throwing oil back up again.
		I wish it were true.
		I even hope it's true, but I don't think it's true.
		And I don't think the average geologist in America or anywhere in the world believes it's true, but I do believe this story.
		The first recorded sighting of earthquake lights dates back to 373 BC in Greece.
		Have you heard of them?
		Earthquake lights?
		But stories have long been told of strange lights in the sky before, during, and after an earthquake.
		Today, their existence is an accepted fact, although the mechanism that generates them is still very much a mystery.
		The first known scientific investigation of earthquake lights took place in the 1930s, and in the 1960s, earthquake lights were well documented in a series of photographs taken in Japan.
		So it's not just what people have seen, but it's also what they have photographed.
		The lights are most evident in the middle of a quake.
		People who have seen them sometimes describe them as searchlights, sometimes fireballs, sometimes lightning.
		Other witnesses describe them as consisting of beams and columns of light, and still others report clouds that were illuminated during earthquakes or simply an eerie glow in the sky.
unidentified		Now, I'll buy that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would think when tectonic plates are rubbing against each other, the forces are so enormous that electromagnetic energy of some sort is probably generated.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anytime you have that kind of friction, you're bound to be getting electromagnetic energy, wouldn't you think?
unidentified		So, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think that it's something we all might watch for, those of us in earthquake zones, trying to have a camera ready.
		Now, that's like saying, make sure when you see that UFO that you've got a camera.
		I saw not one but two.
		And by the time I got back, it had zoomed south like a bat out of hell.
		So I tried in the second instance, but nobody's ever going to have a camera handy.
		Although, with today's millions and millions of digital cameras out there, you may get lucky and you may get a photograph of these earthquake lights.
		I'd love to see it, wouldn't you?
		Just a quickie.
		Questions that really, really need answers.
		For example, who do you suppose was the first person to look at a cow and say to themselves, hey, I think I'll squeeze these dangly things here and drink whatever comes out?
		Who was the first person to say, see that chicken there?
		i'm going to eat the next thing that comes out of its backside uh...
		Why is there a light in the fridge, but not in the freezer?
		Now, I love that one.
		Think about that.
		Why in heaven's name do they put a light in the refrigerator, but not in the freezer?
		If Jimmy cracks corn and no one cares, why is there a song about him?
		Can a hearse carry a corpse drive in the carpool lane?
		That's perhaps in poor taste, isn't it?
		You have a hearse so you can get in the carpool lane.
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why do people point to their wrist when asking for the time, but don't point this one on the air.
		Point to another area to find out where the bathroom is.
		Oh, gee.
		Questions that really need answers.
		I have many more, and I'll dribble them in.
		I liked the first one.
		The first person will look at a calendar and say, I think I'll squeeze these dangly things here and drink whatever comes out.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Good day, Art.
		Good day.
		I was calling about your cat's near-death experience.
		I wanted to share my cat had died seven times.
		I was introduced to this cat when I started working at a veterinary hospital, and he was a cat that someone had brought in to basically put down because he was wetting in certain spots of the house, and they were having difficulty in changing him.
		I love disposable pets.
		Isn't that great?
		I'm not laying it on thick enough, I guess.
		Isn't that great?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Isn't that wonderful?
unidentified		Don't you love living amongst people with distorted type of attitudes?
		Well, to spare this cat's life, the hospital saw that he was going to be a very large adult male once he was full grown.
		He was a nice domestic short hair.
		And what they did is they used him as a blood donor whenever a cat would come in and need blood desperately.
		He was there to supply it.
		Well, what happened was this was a tedious test that was usually delegated down to the interns.
		And these guys would make mathematical errors when figuring out how much medicine to dose him with.
		And it happened so many times.
		And what it is is that when you draw blood, you're taking out a percentage of really the cat's overall body weight.
		You're not subtracting the weight, but it's the amount of blood that's being removed.
		So basically, he would become overdosed because they're Dosing him on an original weight.
		So in his life, he has died at least seven times on the table from just such an act.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, uh, he's got at least three to go, so good luck to him.
		Cats really are odd creatures.
		Uh, when our Abby became so ill that, um, it's a long story, but uh, he did, in fact, die on the table, and he was many weeks in getting better and many thousands of dollars, but uh it was worth it, and now he's a happy cat.
		In fact, you can see him in the photograph on the webcam picture again tonight is of Ramona in the racquetball court with Abby, who now, at 15 years of age, still loves to hear the sound of his own meow, and he loves to hear it echo.
		He's a cat who has become, in fact, entranced with the whole concept of his own little meow being echoed.
		And so he practices hours per day.
		He practices in the laundry room.
		Every now and then we give him a treat, and we take him out to the racquetball court, and that's what the photograph is.
		Abby exercising his lungs and joyously noting the reverberating sound that he creates off the walls.
		It's kind of a joy to watch, and an amazing thing when you think about it, that a cat would have, what's the right way to put it, enough of the realization of his own existence to enjoy hearing his own voice echo off the walls.
		Now, that's a kind of realization of self when you think about it, isn't it?
		An understanding of your own existence.
		In the nighttime, which is where we do our very best work, this is Coast to Coast AM.
		I'm Mark Bell.
		It's going to be a hell of a show tonight.
unidentified		The heart of the 8th century speed turned the dawn to me.
		But you have to think it's me.
		We had to get out before the magic got away.
		Yellow brass fires start to burn.
		And the warnings on them beer cans gonna be buried in them landfills.
		No deposit, no sad zones, and no return.
		Yeah, it's only gonna take about a minute or so to go back for the block sun up.
		You're gonna have to turn your lights on just to see.
		And them lights are gonna be neon saying, Fly our jets to paradise, And the whole damn world's gonna be made of styrene.
		So listen to my brothers, When you hear the nightly sigh, And you see the waters flying through the great polluted sky.
		There won't be no country music, There won't be no rock and roll, Cause when they take away our country, They'll take away our song.
		Yeah.
		To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Art Bell from East of the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
		From West of the Rockies, call ART at 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach Art Bell by calling your in-country spread access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is indeed under the category of questions.
		More of them that really need answers.
		I don't know about the question, but have you ever noticed that when you blow in a dog's face, he gets mad at you?
		But when you take him on a car ride, he sticks his head out the window.
		That's true, right?
		And the biggest question of them all that may play mankind until his last day on Earth, why doesn't glue stick to the inside of the bottle?
unidentified		Rainful music
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Welcome back.
		One heck of a show coming really at the top of the hour.
		It's going to be amazing, I think.
		One of those stories that, A, has never been told before.
		And B, a story that absolutely corroborates all this work going on at Princeton and elsewhere about human consciousness.
		And I think you're going to find it staggering.
		The two men, a father and a son, were investigating consciousness and prayer and its effect and ended up committing suicide.
		It's quite a story.
		That's coming up at the top of the hour.
		But twixt now and then, it's all you.
		First time call our line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Mart.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, my name's Dan.
		I'm in Worland, Wyoming.
		I'm listening to you on XM.
		I used to get you out of Grand Junction, Colorado.
		I've been listening about eight years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Glad to have you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What's up?
unidentified		Well, I don't know.
		I know you love cat stories, and I think I've got a good one.
		And I think it might even tie in with tonight's show.
		I used to have a friend, and she had a cat that, you know, kind of hung around, but we weren't real close or anything.
		Well, years go by, and I'm at an Indian sweat lodge meeting.
		I was invited to a ceremony.
		And I was sitting at, you know, the medicine man that put it on.
		He was telling me, he was a good friend, and he was telling me, you know, don't expect a whole lot, you know, but enjoy the experience.
		And I was hoping to get a vision, and nothing came.
		And they do this in rounds, and there was eight of them.
		And I think it was on the fourth round, out of nowhere, this cat came to me in a vision and said, you know, I'm kind of down to my boys.
		Amber's left, and I've got no place to go.
		And could I come live with you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The cat said this.
unidentified		Yes, in my vision, he did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did its little jowls move as it spoke?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I just saw a face and this was totally mind to mind.
unidentified		I would say telepathy or something like that, you know.
		So I thought, well, that was a strange little experience and all that.
		And after it was over, I was with a good friend and he's like, you want to.
		These kind of things, I don't know if you've ever been involved, but they kind of leave your head being like no little, you know.
		He said, would you like to come over and have some coffee and talk this over?
		I said, well, I will, but first I've got to go check on this deal.
		So I drove by where this girl used to live, and there was a cat sitting in the street, bigger than Dallas.
		And I pull up.
		I just opened up the passenger door.
		The cat jumped in, and he's been with me three years now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Holy mackerel.
		Well, that's a serious story.
		That's really a serious story.
unidentified		Man.
unidentified		I've been wanting to tell you this for a long time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm sure glad you made it through.
		That's a whopper.
		No kidding.
		That's a butte.
		Thank you very much.
unidentified		You're welcome.
unidentified		Good night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night.
		Oh, that's a butte.
		Makes you wonder, doesn't it, about what realm of communication may someday be opened between human beings and animals.
		Wow, what a story.
		What a story.
		Waiting for that experience at a sweat lodge.
unidentified		Bang!
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The experience happened, and it's a cat saying, basically, hey, I need a house.
		I need a family.
		I need you.
		And so you drive over to where you knew this cat had been, and there it is waiting.
		It jumps in the car, and it's yours from henceforth.
		That's one hell of a story.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hey, good morning, Mark.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Rick, I'm in Virginia right now listening to you on XM.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		One of the satellites, either rock or roll.
unidentified		I'm not sure which one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's right.
		XM satellites are named rock and roll, and man, they are rocking and rolling.
		XM's everywhere.
unidentified		I love it.
		Love it.
		Get by without it.
		I have a question for you.
		I drive a truck, and I've been interested in getting a mobile amateur radio.
		Now, I bought an amateur radio that I used now.
		I had to convert it, of course.
		It was a 10-meter radio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, in other words, you were using it as a CB radio, and you converted it.
unidentified		Right, yeah, I had to convert it.
		It's a ranger.
		And I just wanted to find out what you thought would be a good...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You bet I do.
unidentified		What you would suggest is maybe a decent setup to, you know, whether it would be 6-meter or 10-meter or 11-meter.
unidentified		And what kind of equipment would you recommend?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In what kind of vehicle?
unidentified		Just in a big truck, in a semi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In a semi.
		All right.
		Well, here, let me give you what I got.
		Listen carefully.
		On my RV, I have a very unusual structure.
		It's a loop antenna that extends, I don't know, about 19 or 20 inches above the RV all the way around.
		You know what I ought to do?
		I'll tell you what I'll do at the top of the next hour, if I can find it.
		I'll get the picture of what my RV looks like and I'll put it up for you.
		You can see it for yourself.
		It's really weird, and wherever we go, we get questions about it.
		But it's an incredibly effective antenna, and you might do the same thing on a truck.
		You certainly would be able to do the same thing on a truck.
		And what it is, is an antenna that sticks up and goes all the way around.
		I mean, there's nothing to match a lot of wire.
		None of these little vertical antennas that everybody sees the truckers with for 10 meters or whatever are worth a hoot on the lower frequencies compared to an antenna like I'm going to show you.
		I'm going to go ahead and get the picture and put it up on the webcam in a few minutes, top of the hour when I have a moment, and you can take a look at it.
		So that's what I would recommend as optimal.
		Second to that, of course, you can put up the typical whips or screwdrivers, so-called.
		But I do favor what I've concocted, weird as it may be, and I will show it to you at the top of the hour.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hello?
		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Oh, okay.
unidentified		I didn't know it was me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's you.
unidentified		Yeah, about the oil deal.
		I think that the oil is getting so high is because China's using a lot of oil.
		They're trying to get the price up.
		And after they get the price where they want it, you'll be able to buy all the oil you want.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sir, you see, with China using as much oil as it is, that fact alone is driving up the price of oil.
		Everything in the world is supply and demand.
		If there's not much supply and a lot of demand, the price is going to go up.
		And China has driven the price up.
		So all the oil we want at a certain price.
		And yes, that's going to be true absolutely for a while.
		Don't worry.
		You'll be able to get gas.
		But the price for it is going to get higher and higher and higher as the world runs out of oil.
		Easily obtainable, reasonable, cheap oil.
		The rest of it is still there, but it's going to be the second half.
		If we're at that center of the bell curve, second half is going to be very hard, very expensive to get, and everybody's going to feel that at the gas pump, and the entire economy is going to feel it, and already is doing so.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hello.
		Hello.
		Hello, Art.
		I enjoy your program.
		I have a comment, a question, and one thing.
		I have a cat named Misha, and she likes to lick her reflection in the mirror.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's even worse.
unidentified		Yes.
		I wish I could have a camera when she does this ever again.
		Couldn't believe it.
		And the other thing is, I agree with you.
		The biodiesel, I mean, necessity, it's there.
		It's going to happen.
		So I'm all for smelling French fries as you drive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it beats the traditional diesel belch, right?
unidentified		And my comment is regarding, or the question regards the Codex.
unidentified		George Nori had a guest on, I guess it was last week, the week before, and then a couple of weeks prior to that, he had a woman doctor or scientist, and she was talking about the Codex, and I got very alarmed by that, because I'm very much into nutrition or vitamins.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's try and remind everybody what the Codex is.
		It was late in the show last night when the doctor mentioned it.
		Apparently, it's a sort of a world or European right now standard which gets to the ridiculous side of things, almost where you'd have to have a prescription from a doctor to get an apple.
		Now, that might be driving on the outside limits of what it really is, but it would restrict most health foods, you know, and additives and things that people think are good for them and put them in the realm of having to get a doctor's prescription.
		That's basically it, right?
unidentified		Yes, Art, but the thing is, I'm kind of confused, because I went down to this community co-op health food store, membership-based, and they're very much into everything holistic, and you name it.
		They have newsletters and what have you.
		And I got the manager and I said, well, they should know about this.
		And she came down and she says, well, no, we're already aware of this.
		She says, check out this website called NC.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, don't put it on the air.
unidentified		Well, no, I'm not going to.
		I think it was, I won't.
		But anyway, she mentioned it, says, you know, basically, we have an exemption.
		They have sought an exemption.
		And I'm thinking, well, if they're telling her that, where is she getting this information?
		Because I hope that's not a ruse because the guests have been saying one thing, but she's told me we have sought an exemption from that, so it will not apply to us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, I hope for her sake that that's true.
		Either way, the fact that they're considering the legislation of that kind of depth is very worrisome.
		And what happened to individual freedom?
		I understand we need an FDA and regulations to a certain degree to protect the American public.
		We don't want some wholesale disaster on our hands, but there are limits, and this so-called Codex seems to be well beyond them as far as the average freedom-loving American is concerned.
		Good morning.
		You're on the air coast to coast AM with Art Bell.
		Hello.
unidentified		Good morning, Mr. Will.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		My name's Paul, calling out of Columbus, Ohio.
unidentified		And I have a question about, or actually just seeking information about Zachariah Sitchin, the Earth, Moon, and the Mars Moon Provost.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about that?
unidentified		I don't know much about the subject.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, okay, what are you asking about?
unidentified		I was talking with a guy who told me a little story about how the moon was like a death star.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The moon as a death star?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		He was saying how the moon landing has never took place.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, in other words, what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The moon then is an alien base with evil intent?
unidentified		Basically, yeah, it's mothership, I guess, for the Zetarectillians, I think they're called.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, I think you've got some things mixed up here.
unidentified		I probably do.
unidentified		I don't know much about the subject.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Zeta Raticulans, I don't think are occupying our moon, and I don't think the moon is a Death Star, it's just our moon.
		And I think there are pretty good evidence to indicate the moon was actually carved out of the Earth at some point by something big, by some very large collision.
		The moon is a death star.
		There's a concept.
		First time color line, you're on the air.
		Hello?
unidentified		Hello, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it sounds like you've got something big going on behind you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's better.
unidentified		Yeah, I'm driving a truck at the moment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, so you closed your window.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		In Florida at the moment, on an I-10.
		Okay.
		Oh, I just had a little cat story.
		It was quite a few years ago, probably like 15, 20 years ago.
		I was with some friends at Flea Market, and we found this little kitten all curled up under a park bench.
		This was a pretty sad shape, like dehydrated and malnourished and real tiny.
		You could put it in the palm of your hand.
		And I brought it home to my mom, and she basically nursed it back to health.
		I'd heard another caller call in many months ago already about having a kitten that she had nursed back, and for quite a while it just walked in circles.
		And this kitten did the same for months.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was probably traumatized.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, traumatized.
		Losing mom, losing home, losing everything.
		It was probably trauma.
unidentified		Yeah.
		We figured it might have had some brain damage or whatnot.
		I don't know.
		But eventually it did get better.
		And an unusual thing about this kitten is that it's got seven toes on all four of its paws.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No kidding.
unidentified		So we named it Bigfoot.
		And my mom's still got it today.
		And it's the most loving cat you'll ever know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I appreciate the story, sir.
		It's a good one.
		It's, again, isn't the whole relationship thing between humans and animals, be it cats, dogs, whatever, it's an amazing thing to behold.
		We have an obvious, strong affinity for each other.
		Now, has it always been this way?
		Has man and certain animals always had this kind of affinity for each other?
		And it's more than just a casual affinity.
		It's an extremely strong affinity.
		Our cats love us as much as we love them.
		I mean, it's not something made to happen.
		It's something that is made to happen.
		I don't know if the words are coming out right and I'm expressing myself correctly, but it's just something that is.
		This relationship is supposed to exist, and it does in spades.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, this is John calling from Wilmington, North Carolina.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Australia?
unidentified		No, Wilmington, North Carolina.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		North Carolina, okay.
unidentified		Yeah, I have a question for you.
		You seem to be pretty well-versed with radio and frequencies and things like that.
		A little bit.
		I'm a security guard now.
		I used to be a network technician for cell phone towers and work with them and things like that.
		I'm not too well-versed with how frequency works and everything, but recently, the past three days, like all the Wilmington area, whenever I talk on my cell phone or wherever my friends talk on their cell phone, they get static, like really bad static on any service, any carrier.
		I know every carrier is on a different frequency.
		Not only that, my CV at work, where I work, all the radios at work get static, like this constant weird noises coming through the radios, coming through the cell phones, coming through basically anything, any kind of device that uses frequency or any kind of analog or digital device has been getting some really weird noises.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It could be electrical disturbance caused by a bad transformer or something in your immediate area, which would affect a very wide span of frequencies.
		And one way you can figure that out for yourself is to get a portable radio and put it in the passenger seat next to you.
		Tune it in so you can hear the static and start driving around your neighborhood and find it.
unidentified		Well, this is, I mean, within about a 45-mile radius.
		I was wondering, this is the reason I called because there's a nuclear power plant that they've been working on recently.
		And I heard they were having some problems.
		And this is probably about 20, 30 miles within this radius, that they've been having some problems because they were taking out, I think they were trying to drain the ponds or something like that.
		And they had a problem, and they had to shut the whole plant down.
		But ever since, that's recently happened, this has been going on.
		I wonder if that could have anything to do with it, and that's why I called.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would say you should hope not.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's the only advice I can give you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You should hope that is not the source.
unidentified		Would radiation do that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		might or something askew with the power plant might again the only way that you You might have to do a bit more of a drive if it's really affecting that kind of area.
		But that kind of thing can be tracked down.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Going once.
		Going twice.
		Gone.
		International Line, you're on the air.
		No, make that west of the Rockies.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi there, Art.
		This is Ed in Los Angeles.
		Maybe we should have a biodiesel day.
		And have you heard anything about a boycott by the truckers of diesel fuel or anything like that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, and I don't see how realistically they could do that.
		These truckers have a job to do.
		They've got to get from point A to point B, and they can't boycott diesel or they're boycotting their jobs.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
		Well, I saw on some website some boycott.
		Did you ever put any bottle of diesel in your camper?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, in my Army.
		No.
		we've never yet passed a location where they're selling it, but I can guarantee you that the first time we do, we're going to fill up and give everybody a report.
		I mean, we're bound to do that.
		There's one, I think, the closest is in northern Nevada or something.
		Somebody looked it up for me.
		So as soon as we get the opportunity, we're going to fill up and give it a try.
unidentified		Great.
unidentified		Yeah, well, let's hope we get the soybeans instead of the oil from the Middle East.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, look, our farmers can grow soybeans.
		Our farmers, American farmers, can make money growing soybeans and converting it into energy.
		Our truckers, I'm sure, if the price was right, would much rather fill up with biodiesel and certainly something produced by American farmers any old day than imported diesel number two.
		So there you have it.
		In addition, I'd like to remind you that we have to have our truckers on the road.
		They have to be there, ladies and gentlemen.
		If they're not, we're not going to have things on the shelf.
		It's that critical.
		Coming up in a moment, a story you should sit down, turn the radio up, stop all diversions, and listen very carefully to.
		Coming right up.
unidentified		The grass sings out all these things in our memories all.
		And they used them to help us to fight.
		The grass sings out all these things in our memories.
		Spring time moving through the trees of the trees.
		To talk with Art Bell.
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		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast Day Out with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is, and it's my pleasure now to get ready to escort you into a different way of thinking, a very different way of thinking.
		This is going to be quite a program, I guarantee it.
		It was just a number of years ago that I decided somewhat in retrospect, egocentrically, I think, that I would begin some experiments after hearing a number of my guests talk about consciousness and perhaps the power of mass consciousness, you know, millions of minds concentrating on one thing.
		I began to engage a series of experiments.
		And there were nine or perhaps 10 or 11 total, I think, by the time I finally decided that it was wiser to stop this course of action.
		But in the beginning, we tampered with things like Mother Nature.
		We were getting stories, for example, of a drought in Texas.
		And so I made people stop in the middle of a commercial break, and millions of people close their eyes and concentrate on rain forming in that area of Texas.
		And let me tell you, within hours, out of nowhere, without it being anywhere near being in the forecast, clouds formed and rain came.
		In fact, so much rain that in parts of Texas, they flooded.
		The same in the northwestern part of the U.S. and Canada.
		They had a terrible drought.
		We did it again.
		Again, the rain formed and came when it should not have, when there was no forecast of rain.
		Try and imagine that.
		A couple of times, maybe.
		But five or six times in a row, no way.
		I began to become an absolute believer myself.
		How could I not?
		There were instances of praying for people who had very serious illnesses.
		The same level of concentration was applied.
		The people came back and said, oh my God, I was in the hospital.
		I felt it happen, Art.
		I felt it happen.
		So without going into deep detail of all the different experiments we did, they were all at that level.
		You know, big things.
		Somebody who didn't have much of a chance of living.
		Weather systems that ought not be there that we actually created with our minds.
		I mean, after you've done this 10 or 11 times, you begin to realize that you're onto something.
		It really works.
		This is a gigantic power.
		But with it comes the knowledge that you could make a mistake and that there could be unintended consequences.
		So as a result, I stopped doing it.
		But my interest could not be higher.
		Could not be higher.
		And so this is natural for me.
		Bill Sweet wrote the following, after their mysterious unexpected suicides between the 7th and 12th of May of 1993, I as president of Spindrift, I think that's the name, Spindrift, spent years haunted by their memories.
		Alas, 12 years later, the Klingbile Spindrift story is told.
		A journey in a prayer would come across to your listeners as a spiritual ex-file and a tale of the way of politics of prayer and the parapsychology, the way it works, Bill Sweet.
		And he's a ham, KF9DK.
		Bill Sweet graduated from the New Trier High School and Illinois State University with a major in communications.
		He was president of an entertainment booking agency in Chicago.
		That's interesting.
		His applications include being an investor, an audiophile, and a ham radio operator.
		Bill was always interested in how consciousness and prayer relate to science and religion.
		A natural connection between like-thinking people resulted in his involvement in the research of prayer and consciousness at Spindrift Research, where he became president.
		A favorite quote of Bill's is by Charles Steinman, the father of modern electricity.
		Someday, the scientists of the world will turn their laboratories over to the study of God and prayer and the spiritual forces which as yet have hardly been scratched.
		Well, sounds a little religious, doesn't it?
		But it's not really going to be.
		This story, although it's going to have, I guess, connections to the concept of God and whatever else there may be, really was not religious.
		A lot of scientific double-blind studies have been done.
		In fact, the foreword to this book is written by a doctor who himself became a convert after doing his own experiments.
		That would be Dr. Larry Dossi.
		And so, in a moment, comes Bill Sweet and a story you've never heard.
unidentified		Never.
unidentified		Never.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You see, it's my belief that after the experiments I did and thinking I've done about the subject, and it's simply my conjecture that one day mankind is going to find out that mass consciousness is the single most powerful force in the universe.
		Let me say that again.
		The single most powerful force in the universe, dwarfing the splitting of the atom and all its various applications, some good, some bad.
		And so I think no less of this, and I think that much of this, and this will deal with sort of the fringes of all of that, the story you're about to hear.
		Here is Bill Sweet.
		Bill, welcome to the program.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Well, thank you.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		It's a pleasure of being here.
unidentified		Where are you?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		I'm right outside Chicago near O'Harefield.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, okay.
		Excellent.
		Two guests in a row near Chicago.
		I don't even know where we begin.
		It's long-form talk radio.
		We've got plenty of time, so I guess we should begin in the beginning with you and how you became interested yourself in this and got involved.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Been always interested in the paranormal, been always interested in religious things, spiritual overtones of things, try to relegate them together and bring them into a scientific concept.
		Just all these things together.
		And of course, it's kind of hard to mix all these things together, but I've always been interested in that.
		I just happened to meet a gal, and she said, you have to meet my father and my brother.
		And they were Bruce and John Klingbau.
		I live in Mount Prospect, Illinois.
		They lived in Schomburg, Illinois, which was three towns away.
		And they were professional healers for the Christian Science Church, known as Christian Science Practitioners.
		And they were also very interested in natural science.
		They had some natural science background, too.
		In fact, Bruce Klingbau, the father, wanted to be either a forest ranger, a Christian science practitioner, or a natural scientist.
		So kind of got all these things going at the same time when he got into the spindrift area of research.
		And so when I met them, I found out they were doing these terrific experiments.
		They were just basic science, simple experiments with plants and with some parapsychology tests, too.
		They were inorganic tests.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So what were they trying to accomplish?
		What were they actually doing?
		What were the experiments?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Well, the idea of it was that they were trying to show that there was something to it because they found that in the more sophisticated age, people were having experiences, but they could describe them in different ways.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I would have gotten well anyway, or this would have happened anyway, or maybe I was misunderstanding what happened.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're referring to power of prayer, so the audience understands.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're talking about praying?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		I am talking about praying.
		And so what they wanted to do was find a way to isolate certain characteristics of prayer so that in a scientific context you could show that there is something going on other than chance, other than belief, and show that there is something going on at a distance.
		So we call it paranormal, that the consciousness is affecting something at the distance.
		And so what they did was that they set up some experiments, not dealing with people because people were too complex to deal with at first, to deal with plant systems.
		And they would, for instance, they would set up things that were naturally happening in nature, like soybean seeds, for instance.
		They would take them and they'd have people pray for the soybean seeds that were under some kind of stress.
		Like the stress might be that they were over-soaked.
		They had too much moisture.
		So these young seedlings could not prosper because they had too much water.
		So a person would pray and they would find that the result of the prayer would be that the soybean seeds would give off water and move more to a normal state.
		And that would be compared to a control group of soybeans that was not prayed for, that was not recovering as quickly.
		And over time, you accumulate the results and you control something's happening there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you know how complex the experiments were?
		For example, how many people were in the groups during the prayer?
		Any idea?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Well, what we were doing were one-on-one experiments, one person praying for one experiment.
		It wasn't a group thing at any point.
		We were trying to show that there was a connection between the healer and the healer, between the subject, the person praying, and the object.
		We were trying to make this connection.
		And this is what we were trying to do in our simple experiments.
		Now, we would have other experiments with soybeans, too, where they would be undersaked, and the soybeans could not prosper because they didn't have enough moisture, and the person would pray.
		And what would happen was the seeds would take on moisture from the air, and they would move towards normal, as compared to a control group.
		Now, those are experiments that people might say, well, I've heard of things like that before, but what is interesting, like taking that example, was, is that we could bring in people that were very experienced with prayer from different backgrounds, healers and energy people and things like that.
		And they wouldn't know what they were praying for.
		They didn't know what the need of the plant was.
		They knew that there was a need.
		They didn't know if it was oversoaked, undersaked, they didn't know what its problem was, but they would pray for it.
		And what we found was that if you could set up soybean seeds that were oversoaked next to soybean seeds that were undersaked, and you had somebody that really knew how to pray, that same prayer would help the seeds that were oversoaked give off moisture, move towards normal.
		At the same time, that prayer would help the other group of seeds that were undernourished with moisture take on water and move towards normal.
		So the same prayer produced two effects.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I hear you.
		Here's a bigger question, though.
		We don't know the effect of the field.
		In other words, you might be praying for one plant or even praying for two plants, but how do you know that plants 100 miles, 200 miles, the other side of the earth, did not in also some way respond?
		Do we know the field of the effect of this, how direct it is?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Well, I suppose the butterfly effect applies to everything.
		You cannot isolate thought completely.
		But we do have another experiment that was, in fact, a demonstration of how close you can get to isolating an effect.
		The Klingbiles took a mold and put it on a petri dish and put a string down the middle of it and rinsed it with alcohol.
		Not enough to kill it, but enough to hinder it.
		And there was a side A and a side B determined by the string.
		And a healer would determine which side they wanted to pray for.
		But let's say side A was the control group that decided to pray for side B. And they were able to show that the prayer enhanced and affirmed side B, and several more rings would grow on side B from the prayer, but side A did not grow anymore.
		So there is a degree to which you can isolate thought.
		You're not always that fortunate, but there's an experiment where you can.
		Now that wouldn't mean that on some minuscule level that something else because of the butterfly effect isn't being effective.
		There's a lot of interesting guesses about that.
		Well, you said completely isolated.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The butterfly effect.
		That refers to a butterfly flapping its wings in South America, causing a windstorm ultimately in Australia, or something like that.
		That's correct.
		But that's not what I'm asking.
		What I'm asking is the direct effect, if you're praying for a plant or casting out a general prayer and it affects two plants with two separate problems, what we don't know is how far the actual field itself, what it encompasses, whether it's just going to those particular plants or it's, forget the butterfly effect, but actually its radiation is limitless and might go around the whole earth.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Well, it could be, but there wouldn't be any way to measure that.
		There's very well could be.
		And I would think that that would be for future investigations.
		But yes, but what we're trying to do is find a way to measure things.
		That would be kind of a just kind of guesswork.
		I mean, I would believe that every prayer has an effect that goes on and on, just like sending out waves goes on and on.
		They're saying that we could go back and trap the waves of Abraham Lincoln speaking.
		We could put together his speeches again, those waves together.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was there anything cultish at all about what the Klingbaus were doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was it cult-like at all?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		It was perceived so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		It was, yes.
		The idea was very taboo when Spindra started in 1969.
		Up until about 1995, December 1995, the idea that you could mix the scientific method with some religious concepts, with healing, with parapsychology, and come up with a combination that would be workable with all those combustible things working together became an anathema to many people, and they just did not like it.
		I mean, church groups actually prayed against our group.
		People lost their jobs.
		We've had divorces.
		We've had our literature ripped up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure, wait a minute.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Church groups prayed against your effort?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
		Yes, we happen to know.
		I mean, we had a flood of hate mail.
		It would tell us what was going on, and people would let us know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What was the center reason, when you got this hate mail, what was it centered on, please?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		I would say that it's centered on tempting the Lord.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		People say you should never tempt the Lord of these things, or God's power cannot be brought into the laboratory, or parapsychology is the work of the devil, and you can't bring that in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, and science is inadequate to measure spiritual things and things like that.
		Anything you can imagine, it's really something.
		I've lost friends over it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bill, how was even the immediate area aware enough of what we were doing to take up this effort against it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was it in the press or what?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Well, we have quite a few things in the press.
		In my book, for instance, A Journey into Prayer, I have a whole chapter there on our connections to politics.
		The president of Spindrift was a guy who ran for the Republican candidate as governor of Colorado.
		And John Andrews, the only thing they could find bad about him was his connections to a bunch of kooks, so-called, that prayed for plants in the laboratory and thought they got results.
		And that was the cheap thing they picked on through the whole election.
		And that got all over the National Press.
		We were in the Washington Post.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that answers my question.
		That's how they glommed onto you.
		And so they hated your guts, basically, meaning the religious side.
		And then, of course, there was the other side, the scientists.
		And I imagine they were equally upset.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure you know about this.
		A lot of the skeptics claim they're atheists and everything else, but actually I've seen equal amounts of fundamentalism from the skeptics as I have from the so-called religious fundamentalists.
		They just go berserk on things like this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean scientific fundamentalism?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Oh, sure.
		I think some scientists are going to call them scientific supremacists.
		The thing is, is that I think it worries people that it worries religious people that this gets out into evil areas.
		It worries the skeptics that it gets out into this wild thing that the world's going crazy.
		If people start believing this stuff, even if it's true, we're going to have people on the streets doing psychic stuff and mass consciousness and everything.
		We can't have that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that person might have a point.
		When you look around at some of the consciousness at work in individual minds, it's worry.
		It's concerned.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Yes, well, stack the Spindrift research, Bruce and Sean Klingbao and some of their family members and some other people, after this started getting stirred up about Spindrif and everything, they realized that there are some bad consequences out there.
		More people realize that some of this stuff might actually be true about consciousness, that you can affect things and affect people.
		It's a Pandora's box.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know of my experiments, right?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I can't recall ever else in my career when I walked into something as powerful as what I walked into with those experiments.
		And it totally, totally freaked me out when I realized what I was tampering with and reality hit me and I realized it was stupidly egotistical to blunder around in an area that I knew nothing about.
		I stopped.
		And that caution was reaffirmed by others that I've interviewed from Princeton, you know, the guys doing the consciousness experiment there.
		All right, brother, hold on.
		We'll get right back to you.
		What you're going to hear is going to be a wail of a story of the Klingbiles, what they did, and the tragic end they came to.
		From the high desert, I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		Sweet dreams are made of things.
		Who am I to disagree?
		I travel the world and the seven seas.
		Everybody is looking for something.
		Some of them want to use you.
		Some of them want to get used by you.
		Some of them want to abuse you.
		Some of them want to be abused.
		Black velvet, black, soul, stubborn style.
		A new religion that'll bring up to your knees.
		Black velvet, is it me?
		To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
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art bell ▲ ● ▼		When Bill Sweet wrote to me, he suggested that I read the epilogue to the book.
		And he was ever so right.
		It sets up exactly the path that we want to go down as we talk about this perhaps greatest power in the universe, this mass consciousness that I've toyed with in the past, don't anymore, but this giant power that,
		leave me is in a moment i'll read you that epilogue and you can judge for yourself I think this might help you understand what Bill Sweet and the Klingiles were doing.
		It's been said that gratitude is the highest form of prayer.
		I'm grateful that the Kling Biles pioneering research has sparked others to research prayer and consciousness.
		If holy prayer produces any noticeable effect, restored order is part of that noticeable effect.
		Proposals to test the proposition that prayer produces calming or healing effects is beginning to be attempted as part of the investigation of human consciousness, the brain, the effects of holiness, and spirituality.
		Bruce and John Klingbile used all the know-how and all the equipment they could muster to test the proposition that prayer produces several kinds of effects, including ordering effects.
		Referring to Bruce and John Klingbile, two researchers at the St. Louis Medical Center, wrote, quote, Their work enters the further reaches of parapsychological research.
		Reading these sections, one has the distinct impression that the authors reached the limits of current scientific methods in exploring the questions they raised.
		Was the payoff worth the punishment?
		No good deed goes unpunished.
		The hated spindrift has received for introducing experiments testing prayer makes me wonder if the spindrift effort was worth the turmoil and unhappiness it caused some of us associated with the experiments.
		I hope the payoff was worth the time and money we spent.
		Speaking for myself, life would have been a lot happier had I not known Bruce and John Klingbil's experiments, but life would have been a lot less intriguing.
		One intrigue was to watch the wild negative reactions to unconventional ideas for marrying religion, consciousness, and science.
		Even the tragedy of 9-11 points to the importance of testing prayer.
		Spindrift knew that prayer wasn't always motivated by good.
		There was a dark side to prayer, at least as seen globally, when terrorists revealed they prayed five times a day, then they killed people.
		Philosopher Pascal penned, men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction, end quote, after 9-11.
		A UFO researcher wrote me saying, quote, who needs invading aliens to destroy the earth when we have religious terrorists, end quote.
		Question.
		9-11 provided proof that the brain's conditioning about God and prayer could potentially annihilate mankind.
		The world's democracies may be forced to acknowledge that the war on terrorism is a war of ideologies of love and hate and intense belief about prayer.
		And then in bold print, world patterns of love and hate may become as necessary to track as weather patterns.
		For the religious terrorist and meek alike, the following words of Dr. Albert Schweitzer point to higher motives in prayer for mankind.
		Quote, we must realize that all life is valuable and that we are united to all life.
		That's really important, united to all life.
		From this knowledge comes Our spiritual relationship, if I might, to the universe.
		When it's established that prayer does affect people, the moral makeup of each of us will tip our prayers to include our neighbors, or lock and load our prayers to kill our neighbors.
		Our holy motives in prayer, or lack of them, are in proportion to what we believe is the true nature of God.
		We need only look at the world today to see that our deep motives in prayer result in physically affecting mankind.
		Mrs. Eddy writes, quote, the crudest ideals of speculative theology have made monsters of men, end quote.
		As mankind increasingly discovers it's in a computerized century, it seems likely that everything worth investigating about consciousness will gradually be given a chance.
		Since the spindrifters raised science questions about consciousness and prayer that created outrage, perhaps the worst outrage is over for now, and other researchers can move freely to investigate the effects of prayer, spirituality, and consciousness on healing.
		So I'll stop there.
		But basically, that gives people an idea of what you've written about here, Bill, when you wrote about these two men, a father and a son, right?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		A father and son, both professional healers, and both were interested in showing that there was some provability to this, and it caused a lot of bad things along the way.
		And it's very interesting what you said, that you stopped doing these things.
		It probably scared you.
		You found out there was an effect, and it scared you.
		It was kind of interesting because it reminded me during the break that we had a couple people who did our spindriff experiments, and they wanted nothing more to do with them after that.
		It scared them that they could actually see that their thought did something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes.
		And I was toying with it at a kind of gigantic level.
		I mean, creating rain where there was none, where there was no humidity in the air to even produce the rain, and then creating it.
		You know, the first couple times, I guess I chuckled and said, wow, that's amazing.
		By about the 10th or the 11th time, Bill, I had begun to reflect on the possibility of doing something.
		I mean, for example, in Texas, we prayed for rain.
		We got it all right.
		They had flooding.
		It can go wrong.
		People wrote to me about, I even toyed with the idea of perhaps diverting a hurricane.
		But then it occurred to me, okay, fine.
		What if we divert it just by a little bit?
		It sits out in the warm Gulf waters growing larger and larger, then hits land.
		In other words, I don't know what the hell I'm doing, Bill.
		And based on that realization, yeah, I stopped.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Well, you've got it.
		And so there are ramifications to all this research, but you know, we have to move forward.
		Every invention has its bad things.
		We all know the story about the atom bomb.
		We had to split the atom, but it could have been used one way or uses another way.
		And prayer, unfortunately, can be used for good or bad, and consciousness can be used for good or bad.
		And I suppose the future is going to be kind of a tipping point.
		Either we're going to go forward when we discover what can be done with thought, or we're going to actually take our discovery of what mass consciousness can do, use it upon ourselves, and annihilate ourselves.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Bill, I'm really in favor of going forward with it, even though I personally stopped.
		You know, I'm just a talk show host.
		The people who should be going forward with this are the scientists and maybe the religious people too.
		I don't know.
		And I'm not sure, by the way, Bill, I'm not sure the two are related.
		I think that prayer is just like closing your eyes and not appealing at all to God, but appealing for rain and trying to manifest rain.
		So, Bill, in my own mind, I don't know that this power is actually related to God.
		And that gets you in a lot of trouble when you say stuff like that.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Well, let me take a crack at it, okay?
		We don't have any proof about God.
		But I think that what we can make as a good argument is a distinction that we make at Spindriff between prayer, which is goal-oriented, which is praying for rain or whatever, and prayer which is non-goal-oriented, which is praying for what is best.
		And when we get into this area of where we get our own ideas away from what we think we want to do, but pray for what should turn out to be the best in the situation, we find results that we don't anticipate that are normalizing for a situation that actually don't bring danger and bad consequences along with what we desired.
		And what that means in terms of the spiritual argument is that, again, we can't prove the existence of God, but we think that we can prove through non-goal directory prayer, which we call the I will be done prayer, when they get the ego out of the way, is that a cultivated consciousness of these spiritual qualities and premises and desires to have what is best for a situation to occur brings only good results, but you can't anticipate them, but ultimately you see how it normalizes the situation, harmonizes the situation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, but there's a big but here, though.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		What's that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's but what I just read.
		For example, if the men who drove those airplanes into the World Trade Centers prayed hard enough, God knows, it's just they prayed five times a day devoutly before they decided they would do their deed, and their deed resulted in thousands of innocent people being killed, thousands of Americans being killed.
		They succeeded, and the power of their prayer apparently was as great as the power anybody might manifest for the good.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		You have a very interesting point there, Art.
		We don't know how this is going to eventuate.
		It would seem at this point that people's goal-oriented thoughts and goal-oriented prayers are more powerful, it seems so, than the power of good thoughts.
		But it's this tipping point concept that we Could tip either way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But, Bill, it's subjective.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In the minds of the men who were praying for success in knocking those buildings down, to them, from their perspective, it was a good thing.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		It didn't produce good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's from our point of view.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I hate to put it that way, but that is from our point of view.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Well, it is our point of view, but we would define good as producing order.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Not disorder.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, okay, fine.
		But their prayer was to produce disorder for a goal that they considered good.
		You know, the smashing of the government.
		No doubt about it.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		No doubt about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So even good is somewhat subjective.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes, people have crude ideas of good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		there's no question about that there seems to be no question about is the real power of this prayer the real power of Yes.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		But then again, one person with a clear thought in a way that nobody else is knowing what they're doing can break through that.
		I'll tell you, let me just cut in and just real tried to.
		It's kind of a complicated concept, but I'll just say that when a person prays alone and in a secret, you know, Jesus talks about shutting the door and being in a closet, all that, what you're trying to do there is come up with a strategy of praying for something that's undefended that nobody else is thinking about.
		If a whole mass consciousness is on something and you're trying to pray about that too, you're going to get nowhere.
		They're going to overwhelm you.
		But you have to pray about something that they're not thinking about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's take a what-if, Bill.
		What if we had found out ahead of time what the goal of these men was?
		That is, that their goal was to drive these planes into buildings, into the Pentagon.
		Had the world or the U.S. known about that, do you think that the prayers that would be on the other side of the question, heaven knows God, I'm sure, is getting sick of being appealed to by two sides of an argument?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Well, there are three times that Jesus says, don't just pray, also watch, which is translated to mean being alert to what's happening around you.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		And if we had been more alert to what's happening around you, we would have known what to pray about and what physical actions to take, too.
unidentified		We were asleep.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Okay, that's the reason we had 9-11.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's go back.
		Yeah, we were asleep.
		No, you're right.
		And so their prayers were the ones alone heard on the subject until the event happened.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Well put.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's just a fact.
		Now, I'd like to understand how you became president of.
		By the way, what does Spindra stand for?
		Anything?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		You know what?
		I didn't like the term when I got involved in the group, but it's the one thing that people remember.
		It's a nautical term.
		It's in most dictionaries.
		It refers to the out of the big, you're talking about hurricanes and storms out at cyclones.
		It's a storm out at sea stirring up the wave, and the wave is moving so fast that the edge of the wave, the spray, becomes almost a physical form of water.
		And if it hits your face, something is like nails going into your face.
		It's a rare phenomenon.
		I've only met one person in my life who's been in Spindrift or seen Spindrift, and they almost lost their life, and it's something you don't want to see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So again, this is what is on top of a monstrous wave.
		Yes.
		A sort of an atmosphere of extremely dense water.
		Is that fair to say?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		It's very thinly.
		It's the chip of the wave.
		It's the spray at the top of a wave.
		And it's being blown by the wind.
		And we use that as the symbol for the name of our group because it symbolizes this cutting edge between the visible water and the invisible realm of vapor there like consciousness.
		So we're right at the cutting edge doing research at the cutting edge of visible matter and invisible consciousness.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, when you met these two men, did you at that time form Spindrift or was it already there?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it was already there.
		I met them in the late 70s.
		They had been working on it from 1969 forward.
		It incorporated as a nonprofit organization in 1981 in Illinois, research organization.
		But they were doing these experiments and they were getting people coming in to volunteer to pray for experiments.
		My job when I became president right away, I had to find statisticians to hire to keep track of the data and I had to procure scientific equipment for them.
		They had one, Bruce and John Kleenbaugh in 1977 when I met them, had one of the very first Apple II computers, one of the very low serial numbers.
		And they got right into this stuff and started automating some of their experiments.
		They were using hand scales to measure seeds and yeast cells and different kinds of systems.
		And we were also, they used one of the very first random, well, not one of the very first, but one of the first amateur attempts at it.
		They had a random event generator built for the computer.
		And John Klingbau, the son, prayed over the circuits in there, and we compared random numbers, what would happen if you prayed over them, and they would go into different patterns that weren't random.
		It was very interesting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, this is so fascinating.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		course you know that's what's going on at princeton and i have tried certain that you have to be very familiar with I mean, we're all familiar with each other.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		We were the amateurs, and they were the professionals, but there's been a lot of communication back and forth.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Very wonderful people there in other places, too.
unidentified		There's just been some wonderful people in the parapsychological community.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How amazed are you, Bill, at the experiments going on now at Princeton with the eggs?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		I find them very encouraging.
		And there was just a meeting of eight or ten of those guys getting together.
		You know, your guys you've had on like Russell Targ.
		Oh, yes.
		And they got together, and they're not going to be too strong on how they feel about it because then the skeptics will jump on you.
		But they really think there's something there, that it's, you know, there's a problem with the signal-to-noise level and some of those things, but there's enough evidence to show that something is going on.
		And it's very exciting because what is going to happen is that, like you read From my book that someday democracies are going to have to take seriously the idea of judging world love and hate going on, it may be that this is a prototype way of doing it through the AIG experiments, which is the global Gaia experiment, basically kind of through random numbers monitoring unrest in the world and things going on in the world.
		And these numbers jump all over the place when big news events happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They absolutely do.
		And their hit rate is beginning to be better than any of the psychics I've ever had on this program.
		And so I'm beginning to watch those.
		And by the way, the audience should know, you can actually go to a site at Princeton, and you can look at these, you'll hear a heartbeat, which is really eerie.
		And then you'll see all these different scales of these different eggs scattered all over the globe reporting in.
		And you'll see the graph going up and down and bells ringing and buzzers going off.
		And it's all kept on a graph like an earthquake chart, kind of like you'd see, whenever we have an earthquake, they show on TV and you see the chart, and then you see the sudden swing.
		Well, that's what they're looking for in this experiment.
		And these sudden swings occur hours before events, like 9, 11, four hours.
		The thing went berserk before the event.
		And as we go back through history, I don't know how many years now, a lot of years, it's just nailed them one after another.
		So they're beginning to be curiously miraculous.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		It's unbelievable.
		That's Roger Nelson's experiment.
		He started that.
		Yes, and it's exciting.
		And maybe think of something I hadn't thought of, but I have it in the book, but I didn't read it up until now, and that is that Bruce and John Kleinbile, I don't know the years, but I thought it was the early 80s, late 70s, made a prediction that what would actually end up might be in the thing that establishes as a smoking gun that such a thing exists as psychic thought,
		consciousness thought, and even prayer thought would be machinery, not human beings, because machinery more objective than human beings who are subjective.
		So here's an example of that.
		You have these inanimate objects called random event generators that are actually establishing there is such a thing as action as distance, non-locality, psychic experience, and consciousness effects, not human beings, not psychics.
		It's kind of interesting.
		And part of the reason for that is that human beings are potent receptors of psychic phenomena, spiritual phenomena, but we're not objective about at the output.
		We try to turn around and explain things and we get all messed up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, hold on.
		We're at the top of the hour.
		We'll be right back.
		My guest is Bill Sweet.
		journey into prayer.
unidentified		We came from somewhere back in a long ago.
		The sound of as a fool, don't see, trying hard to recreate what had yet to be created.
		What's in our life?
		You must have a smile.
		For his misled care.
		Never coming near what you wanted to say.
		We'll be right back.
		Don't you love her badly?
		Don't you need her badly?
		Don't you love her, wait me what you say?
		Don't you love her badly?
		Don't you love her, faith?
		Don't you love people out the door Don't you wanna do it?
		Don't you love her ways?
		Now tell me what you say.
		Don't you love her as she's walking out the door?
		All your love.
		All your love is one.
		Sing a lonely song.
		Of a deep love dream.
		Seven horses seem to be on the mountain.
		talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
		From west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach Art by calling your in-country sprint access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And my guest, Bill Sweet.
		Listen, it's about an hour late and a dollar short, but I did get that photograph up of the RV with that antenna that now that you all can see it, I suppose will be recognizable worldwide.
		But on my webcam, which is on the website CoastCozam.com, you can view this clothesline in motion.
		It's an amazing antenna.
		It is an amazing antenna, and I promised to put it up.
		So there you have it.
		That's our RV with the antenna on it.
		Bill Sweet is here, and we're discussing a very, very serious subject.
		I did an interview for a lady the other day.
		It was really interesting.
		She'd been bugging me and bugging me to do this interview for months.
		And so I did, and she peppered me with questions about, well, do you believe in extra?
		Do you believe in ETs?
		I said, well, I don't know.
		No, I don't believe in them.
		I think it's possible or even probable, but no, I don't believe in them.
unidentified		She said, what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I thought you did.
		Well, she doesn't have much of a chance to listen to the program.
		You know, she hears it from time to time, but she doesn't really listen to it.
		And frankly, a lot of people have me pegged, which I don't mind as the UFO, the UFO guy, right?
		And I have to believe in these things.
		Well, no, I don't.
		I believe in what I've seen.
		I believe in what I can prove.
		And I take probably almost nothing on faith.
		I'm not good in the faith category.
		I'm really not.
		But what we're talking about tonight doesn't require faith.
		I guess except in the execution of the act itself, but in terms of believing that it's real, that there is something to this, that it's not just cooked up baloney.
		Yeah, you bet I believe.
		I believe in the power of consciousness.
		I believe and definitely believe in the power of mass consciousness to the point that it scares me a little bit.
		When people begin to find out about it, governments begin to find out about it, mountains will move, believe me.
		So this is one of those things that I don't have to take on faith.
		The work has been done by many doctors, in this case, the Klingbiles, very Interesting.
		In fact, they ended up committing suicide.
		And in a moment, we're definitely going to ask Bill about that.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So this young lady interviewed me and was so shocked by my lack of faith in almost anything and just couldn't believe it, absolutely couldn't believe it.
		And I ended up telling her, look, I'm not sure I could even do this show properly if I had some great, unshakable faith in whatever.
		I think it would bias me in so many ways that it would affect the way I approached each one of my guests.
		A faith, a belief that strong, an unshakable, rock-solid faith, is going to absolutely bias you in the way you approach guests who have very unconventional ideas.
		So, in a way, it perhaps aids me in doing this kind of material.
		Bill, welcome back.
		The Klingmiles ended up committing suicide, right?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		They did, and I was the last one to speak to them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You were the last one to speak to them?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		As far as I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As far as you know.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		There might be other information that comes out that I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Usually the police want to talk to people like you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You were the last one to see them alive.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's for sure.
		No, but they didn't know what happened.
		At first, my family and some friends murder at first.
		And so family were discussing if the police should protect me as the spokesman for spendrift and stuff like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, let's delve into that a little bit.
		Police thought it was murder at first.
		Why would they think that?
		What was the manner of death?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Shotgun.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		And they didn't believe in guns.
		And it was very bizarre.
		And we were close to having a breakthrough scientifically on our research.
		It was really unbelievable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		But fortunately, we have a lot of everything's written down, but it was unbelievable.
		I don't know why.
		I was on a FOMO.
		Everything was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so what?
		You're saying that they recorded what they were going to do and why they were going to do it?
		Is that what you're saying?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes, that's true, too.
		Yeah, I was going to say that the research was ready to have a breakthrough, and we have that recorded, but also there is some evidence from suicide notes and things that they did this, but it doesn't make any sense.
		It's a peculiar thing.
		You could look at it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was this, look, if I get into an area too personal, you let me know.
		All right?
		But I mean, was it a mutual suicide pact?
unidentified		It was.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		And I've never heard of anything like that before.
unidentified		Have you?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		A father and son?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I've heard of mutual suicide pacts, but a father and son.
		Well, maybe not of a father and son.
		Maybe not.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		I've heard of pacts before, but.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Usually lovers.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe.
		That sort of thing.
		Maybe.
		I don't know.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		It seems to me that the hate mail we were getting, people working against us, all these things seemed to be coming to a head.
		But at the same time, like you know, everything happens at once.
		We were about ready to have a breakthrough.
		And so it seems to me that it didn't fit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What kind of breakthrough were you on the verge of?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		The breakthrough we were on the verge of was getting finally published in some scientific journals and being invited to some more serious conferences.
		We were invited to conferences before.
		We were getting invited to more serious conferences and things.
		And also things were just coming along where it looked like some other, not grant money necessarily, but some other groups were going to work on trying to replicate our experiments, things like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so the breakthrough you're talking about is a realization by the mainstream, or at least some part of the mainstream scientific community, that you had something valid to the mainstream, and you're about to get published as well.
		All right, then.
		Look, again, stop me if you don't want to tell, but it's almost integral, it seems to me, to the story to understand, and apparently it was explained in suicide notes that were left, why the act was done.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I have a whole chapter with all the details, and I ain't got everybody.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		I'm pleased to write something down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Forget the chapter.
		You're on the air.
		I want to know why.
		Tell me the story.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Of how it happened?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, of why it happened.
		I want to understand what thinking drove these men, father and son, to commit suicide that way.
		What were their reasons?
unidentified		Well, okay, I'll do my best.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Okay, in the suicide note to me, they wrote to me, they said that they were under a lot of pressure.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		And they were being attacked for a lot of pressure, and that's about all they said.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's not sufficient.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		That isn't sufficient.
		I don't have a sufficient answer.
		It's a mystery.
		This whole thing is a mystery to us.
		Psychologists would say all you need to have for a suicide is people who are depressed.
		Well, okay, so maybe they had a little depression.
		But I don't think that that answers it because these things just don't fit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, now wait a minute.
		You were the president, Spindrift, right?
		That's correct.
		And so you were intimately involved with these men.
		When the police asked you if they were depressed, what did you say?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		I didn't think they were.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		No?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They were looking forward to the breakthroughs you talked about.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		As far as I knew, they were.
		As far as I knew, unless there were two stories going on.
		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was there any secret revelation in their suicide notes about something horrible that had happened or they had discovered?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		I will say that there is a lot of information that hasn't been put together that I have documented information.
		In fact, I even invite people to try To figure out this detective story exactly what happened.
		It's still a mystery, and I think that there's many scenarios that could be involved here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, here's something I want to know: did the police conclude that the father shot the son and then himself or the other way around?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		My understanding is they think they shot themselves.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		I mean, they shot themselves.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There was one gun or two?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Two.
		Wow.
		And the point involved is that they didn't want to get the well, they didn't want to get the store where they bought the guns in trouble, so they went in a completely different direction out of a county.
		And it's very strange why they would go to such extremes.
		There's a whole list of things.
		One is that there might have been a threat against Spindrift and that there is the perceived thing that a person is a quack if he prays for people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but this was nothing new.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, there was this intense, perhaps, hatred of what Spindrift was doing.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Well, a lot of things went wrong.
		For instance, we were going to have a be on a TV show, and they filmed it, and it was going to be great.
		And at the last minute, they called and said we were going to be kicked out because what we were doing was too controversial, and we asked them who stopped it.
		And they said, well, we can't tell you who stopped it.
		It was just a business decision.
		Just all kinds of things happened that were very strange.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, but this kind of work is going to be plagued by that kind of thing.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Now, you've got a good point there.
		Anybody involved in this kind of work is going to have something like this trailing behind them.
		There's going to be casualties strewn along the road.
		You're right about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fine, I'm willing to go along with that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I mean, for that to have to suspicion that that's what drove these men to put shotguns and blow their heads off.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		It doesn't fit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It doesn't fit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		I don't have the answer for you, Art.
		The thing is, it's still a mystery because we're trying to figure out how that could happen.
		There are a lot of people who work for Spindriff that were stranded out there in Salem, Oregon, because I was still back here in Illinois.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's where it was, Salem.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		That was where it was.
		Yeah, Spindrift originated here in the Chicago area.
		And when it got too hot, the subject area, Bruce Klingbile lost his church job.
		He was a practitioner.
		He lost his job over these experiments.
		And when that happened, his income went down, and they decided we wanted him to stay here because everybody's going to help him stay here, but they decided to move to a state where it was less expensive to live because all of a sudden everybody wouldn't go to Bruce Klingbile for help because he was perceived as a strange person for believing that you could scientifically test prayer.
		And so they decided, Bruce and John decided to move to Salem, Oregon, which at the time was a very reasonable place to live in a beautiful place.
		It's very expensive now, so they moved out there and several Spindrift people went with them out there.
		And that's where the laboratory was from then on.
		And to answer your question, it's still a mystery.
		This is the Twin Peaks aspect of the Spindrift story.
		We still don't have this resolved.
		I'm sure there's going to be more information because there's different interpretations of what happened.
		I think you would agree with me that you can look at a situation and you can just take it for what it is, suicides, or you can say this doesn't fit and there's more to it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, with what I've heard, Bill, it doesn't fit.
		Yes.
		Again, you worked with these men very closely.
		Yes.
		What were their respective ages?
		Do you know the father and son?
		Or roughly?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		65 and 35.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		65 and 35.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		and they were doing these extended experiments in prayer and it's a fact on different things living things flowers uh...
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		i do you know They could just see it coming with the advancement of the computer and the advancement of quantum physics and people actually starting to look into these things underneath, which didn't really have underneath the surface.
		And so they wanted to be in there so that the spiritual point of view could be in there too.
		So Bruce and Klemau had a great phrase.
		He said that, you know, if you're going to be in a circular firing squad, it's better to fire first.
		And so you wanted to get right out front there in the 1969 and 70s and start looking into these things.
		And then, of course, they were backfired.
		I would say this.
		They were innocent about this.
		They thought there would be this great receptivity to what they were doing.
		And I never did.
		I thought they were naive.
		I think that I was brought up in a neighborhood where there was a lot of debating and a lot of skepticism.
		And I always knew that these things would backfire because I've been involved in other things that backfired.
		And I think they were hurt by every time something went wrong.
		Whereas someone like myself, I just was sort of laughed at it because I said, this is human behavior again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Bill, is there any possibility that they were into perhaps a depth of some experiment that you were not aware of at the time they committed suicide?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Well, my only answer to that is they were deeper in the experiments than the rest of us and understood them better than us.
		That isn't the answer, but I mean were they documenting what they were doing?
		Absolutely.
		They have published a 400-page document called the Spindrift Papers.
		It almost sounds like the Spindrift Files.
		And it's their scientific research, the mathematics, and it goes into the book.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bill, toward the end of this document, was there anything indicating they were into something that you had not previously known about?
		I'm trying to connect something to these suicides.
		So were they into some deep experiment at the end?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		They were wrapping up their experiments at this time and were going to go on a vacation.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		So it doesn't lead anywhere, does it, Arthur?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it leads all in the wrong direction.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now you're saying they were going to go on a vacation.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		anticipating something good not a crime when you put a shotgun in your mouth you know they were going to And they had ordered, and the funny thing was, after the suicides, a chair and a bed, let's say, I don't know which one, maybe both, but that they had ordered, they had ordered a new chair for their computer desk, and it came after the suicides.
		And they just ordered it.
		And Sean Clean Bile was going to get a new dog, and he had it all picked out, and everything.
		Here's the answer to the question.
		It doesn't make sense?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I've got another one for you then.
		In my trying to understand this bill, were they unstable in regular everyday life?
		Did you see instability in their personalities that might suggest an action like suicide?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Yes, having a they were introverts and they had odd beliefs.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Now does that make a person unstable?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I thought they were I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It depends on how odd their beliefs are, I guess.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, well, they have plenty of odd beliefs.
		I think we all do.
		I think in our group we have very different unconventional ideas about things.
		And I think sometimes maybe this would identify with some of the people you've interviewed and you'd understand that sometimes when you're out there in a new area, you're hanging on a flagpole and blowing in the wind, you're all alone, you don't have that many people you can talk to, and it's hard to find references.
		That's why things are references.
		You're kind of hanging out there and nobody wants to have anything to do with you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		And that sort of makes you maybe a little unstable psychologically.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, maybe.
		So these two men moved from the Chicago area to Oregon, and you said that some others followed.
		That sort of makes it sound a little bit like it might be cultish.
		Is that an unfair word to use in this case, or are there tinges of truth to that?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Well, isn't everything subjective and a matter of interpretation?
		I would say that they had some people that wanted to run the Spindrift office and participate in experiments and help with the publicity.
		I think anything can be interpreted anyway.
		I don't see it that way, but people have seen it that way.
		Because it's just like the brain scan research is going on today.
		It shows that spirituality may be an illusion in the brain, or spirituality actually may be something that's beneficial to mankind and there's a reason for it.
		If you're the skeptic, you take the first view.
		If you're the believer, you take the second view.
		So things can be viewed different ways.
		I would say that it would have been nice if we probably had some more normal experiences at Spindriff rather than all these abnormal and paranormal things happening all the time.
		So it probably seems to be this idea of the trickster that you hear about in paranormal.
		You get involved in things and things come along to trick you up.
		I wouldn't be surprised that just being involved in this very area of the edge of consciousness and cutting-edge research into parapsychology, it kind of drives you a little nutty.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I can see also, Bill, how this could be almost considered a new religion.
		A new religion.
		And that goes along with the word cult.
		In other words, something of this apparent parapsychological power, and it's tremendous, all right.
		It could be considered to be a new religion by some.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Well, some people are upset that people got together in a laboratory and tried to just people praying on plants.
		I think it's kind of funny.
		They think it's a religion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they do think it's a religion, and they believe that religion belongs in a church just like the one they go to, not in a laboratory with little plants and stuff like that.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		That's the argument.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's perverting the whole thing they believe in.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		You hit the nail on the head.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold it right there.
		The nails shall rest for a moment and pay for more hammers to drive it in.
		From the high desert, I'm Mark Bell.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		This is Coast to Coast AM.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
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art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've got to admit, this is an intriguing story.
		I mean, here are two men, the Klingbiles, father and son, deeply Involved in very controversial work.
		Work showing that prayer and intent on an object can cause an outcome, a physical, actual outcome.
		This whole consciousness thing we're talking about, they were deeply involved in that and ended up putting shotguns in their mouths and blowing their brains out.
		So I don't mean to dwell on that aspect of it, but you certainly have to wonder what it is that could cause men of such devotion to experimental science to either become so unstable or run into something that would cause them to do an action of that sort.
		It's just not.
		I just cannot fathom it.
		Perhaps you can, or perhaps, easily, perhaps, there's something we do not know.
unidentified		Gunshot Gunshot
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, the book is A Journey into Prayer.
		And then it shows that wave and that foam that Bill was telling us about, the picture on the front of the book.
		And then it's sort of the subtitle here is Pioneers of Prayer in the Laboratory, Agents of Science or Satan.
		And I found that interesting, Bill, with a question mark there.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		agents of science or as as satan But either we're doing research that's important, trying to bring ideas of healing research and science and religion together, or we're tampering with things that should never be tampered with.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And your take on it?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm all for it.
		I've always been kind of an open-minded person, and I've been very interested.
		I've had, as a child, more so than now, but as a child, I had a lot of psychic and spiritual experiences.
		And every time I would try to explain to somebody, you know, they give you that old evil eye, or your friends are support.
		But I was brought up in a debating atmosphere, and I realized that, you know, these things need to be debated out.
		These things need to be really comedy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The concept of Satan, Bill.
		Yes.
		You know, it is an interesting subject all of its own, that is, of good and evil, and of a representative of evil in the form of Satan.
		Any possibility that's real?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think within the context of our world, we know evil is a real power.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In men's hearts, yes.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Yes, in men's hearts, yeah.
		As a manifestation, as a persona.
		I suppose if enough people conjure up something like that, just like today, people have, they're looking for a designer God.
		They want a God that worships them rather than they worship God.
		So if they want a designer God, they might as well have a designer Satan.
		I think people get together and have a collective consciousness, get an idea of what they want as an evil being.
		I think it would be something that would be an archetype of collective consciousness put together by people.
		Satan would be.
		It would be bad enough.
		They would do a lot of damage.
		For instance, Dean Raden in his book, The Conscious Universe, brings out that he says he thinks that evil going around the world and even terrorism, you're getting back to, I won't use the butterfly effect, well, I'll use your field.
		You mentioned the field earlier.
		He feels that when there's anger and stuff going over on one side of the earth, that it actually comes over this side of the earth, and all of a sudden people are angry and upset about things, and it's actually because of what's going on over there.
		And he thinks there's a connection between it.
		People aren't even sure why they're angry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, I'm with you all the way.
		All the way.
		I think that's entirely possible.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		There's a resonance.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the one line about someday we'll track this love and hate, kind of like we do weather patterns now.
unidentified		Yes.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		This is what will need to be coming because the more we learn about thought, oh, Art.
		There is an article you and your listeners have to read, and it's the cover story on the February 28th U.S. News and World Report on how the unconscious mind works.
		And we take it, it's not about the paranormal, but Spindriff has taken some of these things that go on in the unconscious mind and have made them into non-local issues.
		But it shows how our unconscious thinking shapes everything and that virtually we do almost no original thinking.
		We're run by our unconscious mind and the things that are put into it.
		It's unbelievable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Almost no original thinking, huh?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Almost no original thinking.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Hardly none.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that's incredible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're pieces for the collective.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		We're mouthpieces for the collective and what we find that in this case we find that how the brain is formed and everything and how it dictates things to us.
		And so it's very hard to get by that hardware.
		It's like in the movie The Matrix.
		You think this is all very real and everything, but how do you break through that to find the real thing?
		It's pretty hard because the very thing you're using to think this through with is the brain and that's what your hindrance is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		So where do you go?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a good question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How many people, I assume there still is a spin drift, right?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		There still is a spin drift, but it isn't as our experiments aren't as controlled as they were, aren't as well controlled.
		We're interested in having other people continue with the ideas and landmarks we put down in research, and that's worked out pretty well.
		We sort of did the groundbreaking work and took the flack, and we were amateurs out there.
		I'd say there was 12 people working full-time for Spin Drift in the 80s and into the early 90s.
		And the thing was that we were encouraging the more professional scientists to take up this work, and they finally have.
		And so we feel it's success there, and we feel that there's people who call for advice and different things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But Bruce and John Klingvile were essentially the driving force behind the organization during the period when the experiments were well done.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		They were the founders and the driving force behind Spindrift.
		Yes, that's right.
		And I think this problem they ran into, and you're talking about the suicides and everything, I think what bothers people, kind of like the movies that we all saw as kids, the Frankenstein movies, you know, the townsfolks would go up to the castle and burn it down because they didn't understand the experiments that Dr. Frankenstein was doing.
		Well, they're actually wrong.
		I mean, it's a hard thing to understand, but these experiments bother people.
		People are bothered by science when it comes to, and if you're in religious group, especially, and actually there's things that are going to happen that are kind of Frankenstein's today that are actually necessary to do, and it just bothers people, and they go kind of berserk.
		I mean, like the stem shell research is so necessary, and yet, you know, religion gets in there and comes up with all kinds of things to stop it.
		It's going to go on anyway, but it's almost like the present-day thing with Dr. Frankenstein trying to burn down his place in the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, how conclusive were the experiments of the clean bottles?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Our research was preliminary research that suggested that phenomena existed as a result of these experiments.
		The only way you could say something was conclusive is you can have a whole bunch of laboratories establish your experiments.
		So we were on our way to do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Statistically conclusive.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		I would say nobody has the smoking gun yet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Statistically conclusive.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		I would say, from our point of view, it was, yes.
		And I think that we could establish through enough experiments and people doing the experiments that something was happening between the healer and healer, between the healer and what's going on.
		And there is an experiment that does back up what we are talking about at Spindriff.
		I was wondering if you were aware of this experiment that has been done enough times by scientists to show that there's something there.
		Are you aware of this thing where you have people in a Faraday cage talking to each other?
		Are you aware of that, Sperman?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have heard of the use of...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're sort of little safe zones from any possibility of communication by RF energy.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Well, this experiment has been done by people, and here's the experiment.
		You would put a man in one Faraday cage and another man in another Faraday cage.
		They would hook brain scans up to these people's heads, and they would let these guys get into some intense conversation of something they were interested in, you know, whatever it was, sports or ham radio or some hobby or something.
		They'd get into this intense conversation.
		And after 20 minutes, they would start recording what these guys were up to.
		And what happened was, and these guys didn't know it in the cage, one guy in one cage had a light in there that was blinking faster than he could see it.
		His unconscious mind could see it, but it was blinking so fast that the conscious mind didn't see this light blinking.
		And this brain scan showed a certain part of the brain that would light up, where this light was being picked up by the retina and registered by the unconscious mind.
		But the guy consciously couldn't see it, okay?
		What is interesting is the guy in the other cage didn't have this light on, but the brain scan showed that his brain lit up in The same area.
		There was a transference, a connection.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So one thing we infer from this is that the communication that's taking place, and it is communication, has to be communication.
		It's information.
		Is being passed at a frequency or in a way that we can't begin to understand nor measure, but it's true nevertheless, right?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Well put.
		I think maybe you touched on a way to explain all this thing.
		I think the evidence is building that these things exist, but we can't get a handle on it the way science always wants to get a handle on it.
		But it's pretty evident that something is going on beyond us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's this quantum thing, I think, where two objects at different locales, doesn't matter how far apart they are, experience the same cellular change.
		it's really weird and uh...
		nobody knows how it happens to has been rift uh...
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		This is going to hopefully something superliminal.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		They think that this idea that thought and prayer and actions of non-locality are faster than the speed of life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Speed of life.
		Oh, speed of life.
		I think that was a good slip.
		Faster than the speed of life.
		I think I'll keep that.
		Yeah, this is a very interesting and scary area because no one ever thought anything was faster than the speed of light.
		Well, all these limitations are going to be broken down in science.
		And you're going to have people that are going to, oh, no, no, I don't want to go any further into this.
		Let's stop there.
		Let's not look at anything anymore.
		It's getting too scary.
		And I can understand that none of us like a whole lot of change.
		None of us like to change.
		You know, we have to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		i mean despite the fact that they apparently left some brief final words bill yeah i've got a lot of people on this computer next to me uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		were able to fast-blast me messages saying it look how sure are you they were not murdered i'm not i'm not sure about me everybody doesn't i mean house house i was just had a do we know?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		And that could mean that, how were they murdered?
		Maybe it wouldn't be murder in the sense that you would think of it.
		Things could be manipulated.
		You know, maybe some people have the theory, maybe somebody forced them to shoot themselves or something like that or had something on them or something.
		You know, it's just, it's bizarre, and it was uncharacteristic.
		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Because of the nature of their experiments, it's worth asking, haven't you ever wondered whether they might not have opened a door they did not intend to open?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		There are a number of people who think that.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm one of them wondering about it.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		I keep reaching out for one of my good friends who's both into religion and parapsychology.
		He thinks through all this, their sensitivity to phenomena, spiritual and their experiences and everything, and they were very, I got to tell you, I don't think I said it, I mean, they were very loving people and very spiritual people and very, very perceptive, incredibly aware of things and, you know, these type of people.
		They sort of saw things happening before they would happen.
		My friend thought that maybe they saw something that scared them.
		They looked into, kind of like remote viewing or something, saw something that just kind of scared them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they're working in the non-local type areas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		But that's a speculation, but yes, people have thought that.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Even one of my good friends thought that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And whatever it was had to have affected them equally drastically.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, the whole thing is just so incredibly bizarre.
		Were there any other real-world reasons why they might have committed suicide?
		Was the IRS on their backs?
		Were the police closing in for some reason?
		Was there anything of that kind?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		There was a speculation I started to mention earlier, and it was just a speculation.
		I know that there was some talk, and I wasn't in on it.
		It's something that I still want to know about.
		But again, when you're a healer and you're praying for people, sometimes that is seen as quackery.
		And it could be that somebody called them for help when all other medical measures were gone and they took up the case.
		And who knows what happened to the person, but maybe somebody turned that into some potential lawsuit or something, because I know there was something about talking to lawyers about something, and I never got what it was.
		So it could be that, and to mix another thing there, trying to connect dots, Bruce Klingbell did tell me sometime before the suicides that what could really shut down Spindriff would be some lawsuit that would just type the finances and all the things and for years and years and nothing would ever get done.
		So there might be that there was something that came along having to do with somebody filing a lawsuit that would have caused trouble for them and Spindrift and a lot of people.
		And, you know, there's just one thing.
		But then there's a lot of strange things like that that we put together.
		We had a lot of people give us input.
		There were an awful lot of people coming over to see them.
		Scientific people, television crews, radio interview people, and then different researchers.
		And fortunately, a lot of these people supplied me with information.
		They had been in contact with them at that time, and I put it all together.
		It's just that it seemed to me that just like that book you read in high school, it starts out, I think it's a tale of two studies.
		It starts out, these are the best of times and these are the worst of times.
		I think that that's sort of what may have happened.
		It was the best of times and the worst of times.
		things got better and things were starting to open up for the worst things were coming in in russian m Is it up as it was when these two men committed suicide, roughly?
		Yes, and the person can find this website by searching Spindrift Research.
		Those two words.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's S-P-I-N-D-R-I-F-T, right?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you'd put in what, Spindrift Research?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Two words, and they'll go right to our website.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so maybe some of the audience can discern for themselves what might have brought these men to this point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is anything about their death included up there?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		No.
		Only in the book.
		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Only in the book.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What made you decide to write this, Bill?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've been talking at conferences and invited to do different things, and everybody I see giving a talk has a book.
		I said, you know, I think my book has some substance to it.
		There's a story here.
		I think I should tell the story.
		A lot of people don't know about Spindrift and the Clean Biles, and I thought he would tell a story because we had been doing this grassroots research for years and helping other people.
		And the only people that really knew about us were the other people in the scientific research community doing this kind of research in the religion, science, consciousness area of trying to do research.
		And the only other people that knew about us were relatives and friends who hated what we were doing and groups that hated what we were doing.
		They knew about us, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Let me try this question, Bill.
		Since you were president of the organization, you would have really been under many of the very same pressures that the Klingbiles were.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so was there anything that happened to you, Bill, that gave you thoughts of doing yourself in or gave you reason to even consider such things?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		I think I have always had this keen sense of humor, and I think it helped me to see how ridiculous all this was, even though some things were very evil and very serious.
		I mean, you know, we laughed.
		John Cleanbaugh and I always laughed because it seemed like we always had something to offend somebody.
		And it's a funny thing, but it's just the way of the nature of What we were doing.
		And I think that I was able to kind of mentally blow it off that way.
		But I will say that, you know, it was upsetting, too.
		It was upsetting that I didn't get to that point because I knew how ridiculous it was.
		I've had other experiences in my life that are just absurd.
		And I know you've been through it.
		You just can't believe the wild reactions people have had to some of the things that you're doing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I actually can, Bill.
		I don't go a week without offending masses of people.
		So I've become accustomed to it, Bill.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Right, so you don't let it...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have to, you know, what's the right way to phrase it?
		You have to go for the gusto on any given subject like this, or you're not doing your job.
		But when you do your job properly, you're going to offend a certain group of people no matter what the discussion is.
		I guarantee already tonight, we have radically disturbed some group of people out there.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no kidding.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, oh, no kidding.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But none of that ever drove you to any action close to what happened at the clean biles, right?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		That is correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, when we get back, I want to let the audience ask you some questions about this whole thing.
		And that'll give the audience an opportunity to cherry-pick any of what we've been talking about, the experiments themselves, what might have driven these two men to commit such an odd ending for themselves.
		My God.
		What an incredible story.
		A journey into prayer.
		Pioneers of prayer in the laboratory.
		Agents of science or Satan from the high desert in the darkness.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		He's got this dream of our minds.
		Some land he's gonna give up the booze and one night's dead.
		Settle down quiet little town.
		Forget about everything.
		But you know he'll always keep moving.
		You know he's never gonna stop moving.
		Cause he's rolling.
		He's the roadstone.
		When you wake up, it's a new morning.
		The sun is shining.
		It's a new morning.
		You're going to, you're going to.
		To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
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		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Man, I'll tell you, this is one weird story.
		Bill Sweet is my guest.
		A journey into prayer.
		Pioneers of prayer in the laboratory.
		Agents of science or Satan?
		That's quite a mouthful, isn't it?
		remember Hale-Bopp?
		Remember those people who committed suicide, thought they were going to...
		That's what they said in their wording.
		They'd graduated from Earth.
		And they were going to whatever that was.
		And you have to wonder if perhaps the Klingbiles, in some further stage of their work than Bill Sweet was aware of, may have come to some understanding or they may have run into something or opened some door that caused them to do what they did.
		But near as I can tell from what I've heard, threatened lawsuits nonwithstanding, there really was no reason that a reasonable person would take a shotgun, father and son, put it in their mouths and blow their brains out.
		There's just not enough there to make A add up to B. There just isn't.
		The whole story is strange.
		At any rate, it's your turn, your chance to ask questions of Bill Sweet, who is still part, president of this organization, and has written this book about the power of consciousness, in effect.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The foreword to this book was written by Larry Dorsey, MD.
		And even the foreword itself is absolutely fascinating.
		I mean, here's a physician who didn't believe any of this, thought it was all bunk, but began investigating.
		And by the time it was over, he was praying for his own patients.
		His own patients, you know, coronary patients, that sort of thing.
		And absolutely knew that it worked.
		Remarkable book, remarkable story, a very strange story, Bill.
		And it's going to be interesting to see what the audience has to say about this.
		So that's where we are on the show.
		We let the audience in.
		You ready?
unidentified		Ready.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's see.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Bill Sweet.
		Good morning.
		Hello.
unidentified		Is it me?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's you.
unidentified		Okay.
		I wanted to say that American Indians already know all about this.
		We've known this for years about the power of prayer.
		We don't pray for ourselves.
		We pray for everyone but ourselves.
		But the thing I wanted to let you know is to stay on course.
		Don't let anybody throw you off.
		It's because they're afraid.
		They're afraid you're going to find out the truth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you had to make a guess about what happened to the Klingbiles, I mean, that's so awful and dramatic that what would you guess?
unidentified		I don't even have to guess.
unidentified		I could tell you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Please do.
unidentified		And they probably were murdered.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You think they were murdered?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You think that a scientific realization, you know, being published and suddenly having this out in the public was too much?
unidentified		Yeah, because people are afraid of a concept that is so different of what they believe.
		I mean, for years we've been told a certain religious belief, that we came from a certain way and that things were a certain way.
		And when our mind is expanding and we're listening to other ways, people have a fear.
		It's all fear.
		People are afraid of believing something totally different.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you're right.
		you're right uh...
		but it's so uncomfortable you believe ma'am that somebody would have Yes, it happens all the time.
unidentified		It happens.
		I mean, look at with abortion clinics.
		You know, somebody doesn't believe like them.
		They shoot people at abortion clinics.
		It happens the Crusades with American Indians.
		The American Indians weren't allowed to practice their spiritual beliefs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		They do fundamentalism, and it's a very good point, how this fundamentalist thought wants to send things backwards in time rather than forwards.
		And I mean, we do have it here in our country with like the example of the religious people who blow up abortion clinics.
		We're seeing it all over the world now.
		It's unbelievable.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Well, I'm an Apache, and I'm from the Lakota, Dakota oral tradition, and we talk about prayer all the time and how powerful prayer is.
		And prayer doesn't necessarily, you know, when you're praying, you're praying for someone to get well, it doesn't necessarily mean they're going to get well.
		Healing is a whole different aspect.
		When you heal, it doesn't mean you get well with cancer or anything.
		You heal, and healing means that you have the capacity to go through whatever it is you're going through.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, but you still, prayer or not, you may go through it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you agree with that assessment, Bill?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		You go through with the prayer?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no.
		No, that whether or not she said that, for example, you have cancer, you pray for it, or you have somebody pray for it.
		It doesn't mean you necessarily get better.
		She said the intent of the prayer is to prepare yourself to go through what you're about to endure anyway.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Well, that might be one possibility.
		The thing is, is that we don't want to anticipate what the prayer will do.
		There could be many, many ways to answer a prayer.
		I would say yes, in that sense, there's many answers to prayer, and we don't want to outline because we do not know the best outcome.
		Only the prayer knows that's really non-directed, I will be done prayer, knows what's best for the situation.
		So I would say that I think I do agree with her, I understand it, right?
unidentified		Yes.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		In other words, the point is, what is most normal for this situation?
		What will bring out the best result?
		We do want to see healing, of course, but if everybody in the world had their prayers answered and everybody got healed, I mean, we'd have a population problem, we'd have all kinds of other things happen, and there's some situations where it's interesting.
		I remember this about the suicide thing.
		I did have a talk years and years and years ago with Bruce Clainbill about suicide.
		He could think of one situation where you would commit suicide.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that was?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		If you were an agent for the United States government, a secret agent, CIA agent, and you had vital national security information and you were caught and they were going to pound it out of you.
		It would be better to kill yourself to save the people from that being revealed.
		So, I mean, that was one.
		If you knew something, well, maybe even real agent, maybe we can even tighten this.
		I don't know how.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But anyway, the point is, if you know something that would do more damage than good, it might be good to Could they have stumbled into something in their research, Bill, could they have stumbled into something of that magnitude?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Well, let's put it this way, now that you bring it up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		We've talked about it from time to time, yes.
		We knew that there were good and bad consequences to this.
		And it can drive you crazy.
		In fact, the article that I was mentioning from U.S. News and World Report on this research of the brain, they would ask people, would you kill your child?
		And of course, immediately the brain, they would go crazy.
		No, no, no.
		Then they gave them a scenario.
		Well, what about this?
		What if you were in Germany during World War II and the Germans were coming in?
		You were Jewish people, and the whole town was cuddled underneath the house in a basement, and you had a child that was crying.
		And you knew that the only way you couldn't be found by those soldiers was if you covered the child's mouth and smothered and had to kill it.
		Because if you didn't kill that child, everybody would be killed.
		Then would you kill your child?
		And then the brain activity went crazy, and you had all these conflicts and everything.
		It's incredible.
		But the point was that there are situations where things have to be done for the greater good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That really does suggest the possibility that they ran into something.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Well, you gave me something to think about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wild Carline, you're on the air with Bill Sweet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Emily?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		I have a question, and I also kind of have a theory on what happens with the suicide.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, go ahead.
unidentified		I'm a breaking master, so I'm very familiar with energy healing and even long-distance healing.
		In the concept of breaking, there's a concept that you don't step out of the way with your ego and then you let the higher power, God, your oversoul, whatever you choose to call it, the greater consciousness of the universe, direct the healing where it will do the most good for the most number of people.
		In other words, even the cancer analogy, if someone has dying of cancer, there might be lessons, spiritual lessons, that the family members would have to learn.
		And so the death may happen anyway, but there may be healing that takes place in that family because of the healing energy that is done by a ranking members.
		My question is how much research has been driven to into like non-goal-oriented prayer and what kind of findings that they have on how it ultimately comes out for the higher good for all the people concerned?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		One of the two major contributions to Spindriff, we feel, has been this distinction scientifically that it's made between goal-directed prayer and non-goal-directed prayer.
		Goal-directed prayer is this asking prayer.
		Like Jesus says, ask and you shall receive.
		The trouble is, most of the time, human beings ask for the wrong thing.
		We were able to show this.
		People ask for what they want.
		What they want isn't necessarily what they need.
		Non-goal-directed prayer is this thy will-be-done prayer where you get your ego out of the way, and we feel that that was something new that we were offering to research.
		I mean, people have always known about goals.
		You know, I want a car or I want a new job and things like that.
		People have prayed like that for years.
		But the idea of not having a goal and just letting the power of flow, the divine, go through you and produce a result, and you're just the observer, and you watch what your prayers are doing, and you don't know what's going to happen until you observe it, that's something fundamentally new, at least scientifically.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you familiar, Bill, with Nishirin Shoshu Sokikakai?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		I'm afraid I don't know what you're saying.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a new age-y kind of Buddhist-oriented religion in Japan.
		A very, very, very strong religion, Bill, with sort of fundamentalist, rabid devotees, and they chant.
		And the purpose of this chant many times can be things like, I need a new refrigerator.
		I need to be promoted at work.
		I need some real-world thing.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Now, you're getting into something very important here, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		And people will sit and chant, Namyo Horengekkyo, Namyo Horengekyko, Namyo Horengekkyo, and in the effort to make this happen.
		And they claim, they claim, Bill, that it does happen.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		It does happen.
		There's no way around it.
		So we hope that there's going to be some counterbalance to this kind of prayer, because if the whole world's going to be goal-oriented, remember that movie, Bruce, where he played God and he had everybody win the lottery at once and it ended up bringing chaos?
unidentified		Yes.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		I mean, you have everybody doing this.
		The world is really going to go nuts.
		Everybody wants that car, everybody wants that job.
		In order to get that job, you've got to kill the boss because I've got to get into his place.
		And you get into place and the next guy's bringing, you've got to kill the boss to get into that place.
		The world's going to go into chaos.
		So if we understand on the other side some of the spirituality things, we'll really get into the better flow.
		I might tell you something very interesting.
		We call gold-directed prayer particle prayer, kind of like from the quantum physics thing.
		And we call non-goal-directed prayer wave prayer.
		Particle prayer, gold-directed prayer, deals with looking at these particles, these material things you want.
		I want this, I want that.
		The wave prayer, the non-goal-directed prayer, is just sitting back and relaxing and let the thing flow and see where it goes and God's will be done.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sounds fluffy and nice, but is there really, honestly, Bill, any differentiation between the power of the two?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Well, we think that we can show it in our experiments.
		We think this is what Spindriff has been able to do, experimentally show the difference between these two effects.
		Okay, two effects that we've measured.
		We measured a goal effect and a non-goal effect, and they produced different patterns.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Got it.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Bill Sweet.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hi.
		What do you think of this?
		This is my theory.
		I think that maybe the missing chalice that they all think is the golden grail is actually the belief or the knowledge that the people all put together are stronger than anything else that they could possibly do.
		You know, I think they're afraid.
		That's why they make psychics look like kooks, you know, and they do everything the opposite of the way it is.
		Yes.
		What if everybody at 12 o'clock said, I declare this war is over.
		I wonder what would happen.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, that's interesting.
		Let's see what would happen.
		We really hope that they really, if that was the real intention, it would be there's one of Shakespeare's play, I think it's Othello, about the women withhold marital relations with their men and listening after war or something.
		You can imagine what enough people doing something together could do this.
unidentified		I think just praying for the whole world to get along or for just end this war.
		Why we were there on a false pretense and now we're still killing people for what?
		For the false pretense?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Well, you see how complicated it became instantly now?
		It's become very complicated.
		It's not a simple thing at all.
		So it's a very difficult thing.
		And again, I would say that the way to pray about the present war situation, as long as that came up, would be open-ended about it, and let's see where it's going to go.
		Because really, nobody knows where it's going to go.
		So we might as well pray that way and go with the flow.
		And if we've made mistakes, we'll correct them.
		There's a way to correct them.
		We don't know how, but it'll come about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or the world will get even somehow.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		That's right.
		To come up with an interesting point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Welcome to the Rockies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're on the air with Bill Sweet.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Yes, hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Hi from the Central Coast.
		My name is Joe, and I wanted to ask Bill, what in your heart is your definition of prayer?
		And do you pray for knowledge or do you pray for wisdom?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, that's very good.
		I mean, what is the definition of prayer?
		What is it?
		Bill?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Well, you want a theological definition?
		I mean, I am a Christian scientist and a Christian, and the thing is, is that I am looking for prayer that is a blessing to whatever I'm praying about.
		And I would say what I understand that prayer does, the way I would define it, and this is the way we define it at Spindrift, is that prayer brings more order and harmony to a situation.
		And so you pray and you w sit back as a witness and observe and wait for that to happen.
		And so that's the way I would pray.
		And if I need wisdom or knowledge, I mean, that would be an answer to it, too.
		I mean, it's a good idea.
		Pray for wisdom and knowledge.
		We all sure need it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, great.
		Sounds great.
		But if you're an Islamic terrorist, then the collapse of the World Trade Towers and the plane that crashed into the Pentagon, to them, that's bringing more order to their world.
		It's bringing peace even from their point of view to their world.
		Just not to ours.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Well, it shows you how everyone lives in his own mind, doesn't it?
		The thing is, is that I think that empirically I think we could say that in the long run they wouldn't bring order, but what you're giving there is the power of gold-directed prayer.
		These guys pray gold-directedly, and it's a very powerful prayer, just like mass prayer was a mass prayer, just like it registered in the egg experiment that they were going to crash.
		Something has to counter that.
		If we get more millions of people praying the way they're praying, the people who are praying holy blessing prayers won't have a chance.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It makes one seem every bit as powerful as the other, or it makes it seem just an undirected until directed power and available for everybody for whatever goal or motive you might have in mind, whether it be good or bad, subjectively.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Whatever person learns about the research that we're doing, other people are doing, they can take the research, and according to how they're put together and their moral makeup, they're going to use it for good or bad.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		That's the danger of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, you're on the air with Bill Sweet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning, Art.
		I just have a quick theory on what I think happened.
		I think our two gentlemen here that had this incident were more than likely trespassing in a realm of consciousness.
		And I think it's a definite possibility that their consciousness were turned against them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They were trespassing in a realm of consciousness?
unidentified		That's right.
		When the Europeans came over to America, there was resistance.
		And I think that their work brought them to a point where their presence, their conscious presence, was noticed by some kind of entity and more than likely wasn't welcomed.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Sounds fine to me.
unidentified		I mean, I'm paranoid anyway, so that would fit in with me.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		I believe that when you get involved in things that are very creative and very new and very innovative, you find this wall of resistance that comes up against you.
		And something like this, it could affect all humanity to discover something else.
		That may be too much for a person to take, and it could actually have detrimental effects.
		I think, yes, it's a possibility.
		I don't rule it out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		this is really uh...
		on and chilling stuff and i guess it's been uh...
		probably haunting you this way since it occurred hasn't yet and i think i don't um...
		i'm going to give you some of the quotes that people told me that i don't know Good morning.
		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		Falling in love was the last thing I had on my mind.
		Holding you is a warmth that I thought I could never find Just trying to decide I'll stay by your side I know I'm fine I just can't find the answer to the question Keep going through my mind Baby Isn't it time It's your time
		to wait Falling in constant to your mistakes Isn't it time It's your time to wait No love now No love now No love now I can still be safe You're the way to change You're
		the way to change Listen to the wind blow down the ground tonight.
		In the shadow, make the shadow.
		And stand in the dark and the light And if you don't love me now You'll never love me again I can still hear you say it I can never make a chance of it If you don't love me now You'll never love me again I can still hear
		you say it I can never make a chance of it Want to take a ride?
		To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
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		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a strange and cautionary tale that Bill Sweet is telling.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A tale of the Klingbiles, who experimented extensively with prayer, consciousness, directed thought, and ended up committing suicide in a bizarre and puzzling way.
unidentified		Come on.
unidentified		Come on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I want to get a plug in for the book, Bill.
		Your book, A Journey into Prayer, is available, I assume, Amazon.com.
		Yeah, all the usuals then, huh?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		All the usuals, huh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really, well, indeed, worth the read.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, just you say there's a whole chapter on their suicides and so forth in here, right?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		It tells the whole Spindrift story, and they have lame experiments.
		And you mentioned Agents of Science or Satan earlier.
		Well, I have a whole chapter that is actually titled that, and it's the documented incidents where people came after Spindrift.
		I mean, I could have said more that I couldn't have documented, but those are all documented ones that would help show what actually happened, how people reacted to us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How incredibly upset they were by what you were doing.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's amazing.
		And some people didn't even believe what we did could possibly work.
		And it's kind of interesting, isn't it?
		Why would somebody be upset with us if they didn't think it worked?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know, but I do wonder about this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, Chicago is, you know, a pretty, it's an urban liberal kind of environment that you wouldn't think would pay as much attention to this sort of thing as, oh, for example, let's say a smaller town in Oregon where, gosh, people might be much more fundamental about their beliefs.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		I think the people there didn't know too much about it, but it was the people who were around in bigger areas that Ashley knew about it.
		They actually didn't have too much trouble with the people in that area.
		It was all the contacts every place else.
		But they tried to go there for peace of mind, too.
		But you can't get away with it.
		You're talking about fields.
		I guess wherever you go, you can't get away from this stuff.
		And I would say, if I had to summarize what the Spindriff Research did in one sentence, I would say it's this.
		Each person has a degree of mental input into our world.
		And if that could be proven, that's the scary thing.
		You can talk about it, but they can actually show that.
		Each person has a responsibility for his thoughts.
		And you collect those together, it gets to be a scary thing, as we talked about earlier.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we could sure lay awake nights wondering what these two men ran into, what they discovered, what they took to their very fast graves with them.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		They were lightning rods for a lot of criticism, that's for sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, first time caller line, you're on the air with Bill Sweet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Hi, my name's Chaim.
		I'm a religious Jew.
		I wanted to ask you a question that many military strategists have not been able to answer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fire away.
unidentified		The 67 war that Israel faced against 22 Arab countries.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Is it possible that the praying of all those Jews together for one cause is the reason why Israel won that war?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Accomplish the seemingly impossible?
unidentified		Correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good question.
unidentified		That's part of the reason.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, Bill Oliver.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		But they also had a general, the Jewish army had a general that was in the Arab army, and they didn't know he was there.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		So he was supplying secrets back to Israel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Perhaps.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, he helps those who help themselves, huh?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nevertheless, it is a worthy question.
		Oh, sure.
		That particular issue aside, it seemed impossible, and yet they did it.
		And I wonder if that can be applied to equally amazing things that just seemed the odds were so far against it, and yet a small but relatively determined group had their way.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		It seems like you can't replicate these things perfectly every time.
		Now, you say you did this six times.
		This is really remarkable to me that you can.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe as many as 11.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		You know, that is highly unusual.
		I think when you talk to other researchers and everything, they would find that quite remarkable.
		Maybe you need something like a radio broadcast that goes around the world to get something like that to work a lot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe you do.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Because what happens in research is that it seems that you're able to get these things to work a few times, and then the resistance out there in consciousness, the defense mechanisms of the mind, et cetera, get to work.
		And don't let it happen again because then it can be proven.
		It's okay, you can have this happen once or twice or something.
		But if you can actually prove there's a law operating here in consciousness, well, they don't want that.
		Then the secret's out, the jigs up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Believe me, Bill, I went over that threshold long before I got to 11.
		I went way over that threshold, Bill.
		I saw it working.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Consistently.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		And that is what is remarkable about what you're saying.
		I think that there has to be something that big, enough people working on it, to actually push it over.
		Because we find, all parapsychologists will tell you this, that it's hard to replicate something after a certain point.
		You get too many people thinking about it or interfering with it or whatever.
		But maybe it all does tie together in the sense that mass consciousness may be the one thing we'll be able to show has a paranormal effect.
		And we hope it also has some spiritual effects for good, too.
		It may be the one thing.
		If we get everybody thinking in a certain way, we hope in a good way, then we can see things happen that are undeniable and consistently.
		You've given me the idea that maybe more parapsychologists should be on the radio broadcasting around the world and get everybody to cooperate with them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, look, even the people involved in the experimentation at Princeton admitted to me and the world when they were on that, look, we don't want any publicity.
		We don't want a lot of publicity about this.
		No, thank you.
		It will affect the efficacy of our experiment.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		This is one of the other discoveries of Spindrift, that you've got to have a way So, that people aren't interfering with it.
		And the only way around that is that when you do your experiments, you don't tell people when you're doing them.
		You just have a few people involved.
		And also, you might pray where it's not being defended.
		For instance, like we had somebody that was praying about starving children, it wouldn't do any good to pray about starving children, but we had some people in Spindrift that were working with starving children.
		And instead of praying for that, because all the world thought was on these starving children, that wouldn't do any good, they prayed about the milk.
		They prayed about milk, and they didn't know what the effect would be.
		But what the effect was is that they were able to have the milk last longer and be preserved longer.
		And the reason was the milk was undefended.
		Nobody was thinking about milk.
		That's a strange thing to pray about.
		Now that I said that, people pray about the milk, and too many people will be thinking about that.
		Then you've got to go someplace else that's undefended.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's the exact problem.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Bill Sweet.
		Hi.
unidentified		Good evening, Art and Bill Sweet.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hi.
		I have a question and a quick comment, if I could, please.
		Sure.
		Quickly, could those groups that were praying against the Kling Biles have actually caused them to kill themselves?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good question.
unidentified		And Art, and the theme of going for it, I had a custom t-shirt made for a big festival, and it said, mental masturbation, possession or garden of Eden.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bill, your turn.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		I think that I just saw the Manchurian candidate, and I'll tell you, I think people could have people work on them, and people do do things.
		Wait till you see this article that I just read in U.S. News and World Report.
		The things people were made to do and they didn't even know they were doing it.
		This article makes the argument that we don't even choose the person we marry.
		It's all done through the unconscious mind strongly having to do with, believe it or not, the sense of smell.
		It's unbelievable.
		Not only that, this is really interesting.
		Recent research that just got into the magazine in Time, I guess.
		Schizophrenia, we think it has to do with all kinds of other things.
		They think schizophrenia has to do with smell.
		Almost all schizophrenics have a bad or no sense of smell, and they're not picking up social cues, and it's distorting everything in their lives.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's strange.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know that people, for example, with brain tumors, one very common side effect of a brain tumor, Bill, is that the victim smells things that aren't really there, very strong, very strong smells.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, absolutely.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Bill Sweep.
		Good morning.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
		I had a quick comment I wanted to make about something I noticed in the news recently that's kind of scary and seems to fit into this entire motif that we've been talking about tonight.
		Okay.
		I don't know if you noticed, but the Sony Corporation actually took out a patent this week on an experiment they've been working on, which beams radio waves into a subject's brain and elicits responses such as smell, sight, and sound.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No kidding.
unidentified		Believe it or not, this is true.
unidentified		I read this on CNN.com and I saw it on ABC.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		The Matrix is here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the Matrix is here, he said.
unidentified		Yeah, and I think the scariest thing about this whole thing is this is an application that is going to be used for gaming.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gaming.
unidentified		Now, when you really think about it, in a way, that's kind of like a mind control application.
		And you know how you can talk about how the conscience and intent can be used outwardly to affect things?
		Yes.
		For the first time ever, we have an actual corporation that filed a patent to use that same very system to actually affect it the opposite direction to affect someone's mind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Caller?
unidentified		I wonder.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Caller?
		Caller?
		Maybe they'll call it the smell of money.
unidentified		That's the truth.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my.
		This is interesting.
		We're headed for a technological dark ages.
		It sounds like that from what the caller is saying.
		We're heading for a technological dark ages.
		And I think that this could be what's happening.
		And he's talking about computer games influencing things.
		You probably have had Rupert Sheltrick on as a guest.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Did he tell you about this thing he was involved in with people doing crossword puzzles?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Okay, this is interesting.
		It kind of reminded me of that point I heard about the games he mentioned.
		They found out that when people would start doing a crossword puzzle in the newspaper in the afternoon, that it was real hard, and they were watching people and monitoring it, watching people.
		And then as it got toward evening, more and more people were doing it, and it became easier.
		And as it went on to the night, the people who did it later at night were getting and moving faster and figuring out the things.
		The theory being that as more people figured this out, it was setting out a field again, and it was enhancing, kind of like the hunter with the monkey.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Got it.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		I've got it.
unidentified		And it was easier as the time went on for people to do these puzzles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Because the answers were being filed away in the library on mass consciousness.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so the more people did them, the more answers were out there, more readily to be plucked from the ether.
unidentified		More adroitly named people thought.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Welcome to the Rockies.
		You're on the air with Bill Sweet.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Morning, gentlemen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
		Unfortunately, the cold, hard truth about the whole matter is we cannot save the world that does not have the desire to be saved.
		And let me preface that with the three elements that I believe is what Bill is mentioning here is that it contains the free will and intent and effect.
		Now, Art, I know you're fond of time travel or effect of time, and when you've got to preface that, you must think about how the future of events of time and how they unfold.
		And that's why precognitive people don't always have a real good high capacity or percentage of accuracy when they try to predict the outcomes, because free will dictates as far as what the outcome of events will become.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, frankly, sir, the best psychic I've seen lately has been Princeton with their graph.
		I'm sorry, but they've established a track record that I think would put most psychics and tellers into the dirt.
		So, what do you think, Bill?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Well, here's a thought I picked on and what he said.
		According to neuroscientists now, and according to this article I brought up early about U.S. Newsome Report, it could be that almost all free will is a myth.
		There is no free will.
		We're driven by things we don't understand.
		There may be no free will.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I find that unacceptable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bothersome.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Bothersome.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe it's true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know, but I don't like to.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think that what would happen is that as we become creative thinkers and original thinkers and really work on that, we can find end ways to run around the stuff that is telling us what to do.
		That's why we need creative thought.
		That's why we have to be open.
		And that's why we have to expect the unexpected and not get into routines where we're run by our education, our culture, and our unconscious minds.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, not if all is preordained, then there is no original thinking.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		It wasn't exactly preordained.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		It's just that we don't understand what's running us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Bill Sweet.
		Good morning.
		Hello.
		Going once, going twice.
unidentified		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, hello.
		Turn your radio off, please.
		That's good.
		Off, off, off.
unidentified		I was listening to you.
unidentified		I've been listening to your program for about six months now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And I think that your current guest is confusing prayer with collective consciousness.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think it really is a confusion that they are different?
unidentified		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you, Bill?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I think that a person, we're trying to establish in our research that one person praying for one object, one experiment, you can show an interrelationship there going on, an interaction.
		We believe that that prayerful interaction can be shown.
		As you kept up right away, you said, well, where does this field go?
		Does it go out and affect other things?
		It can't be isolated enough that it's not going out and affecting everything else.
		I think everything does affect everything else.
		Everything is an input.
		But I think, too, that prayer can be individualistic, and I think that's what the caller is talking about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		For all we know, it affects the sender.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, kind of like some weapons the military is developing right now, they have these new weapons that they can't figure out how to use because it affects the guy who pulls the trigger.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		That's right.
		There's a lot of weird things going on.
		I know a guy who makes speakers for stereos, and he made a real strong cone, and he got a knock on the door one day from the government.
		He said, we like what you're doing.
		Why don't you come work for us?
		They're making sound weapons.
unidentified		A lot of weird stuff going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Bill Sweet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		How are you doing, gentlemen?
		Okay.
		Well, it's kind of a religious belief that two things of all religions always exist.
		One is thou shalt not kill, of course.
		And the other aspect, you know, except for Buddha, because Buddha is one-to-one.
		But two or more are gathered in my name.
		You know, I am present.
		So do you think possibly, I'm sorry, Bill, that, I mean, was it your understanding that because you said they didn't necessarily believe in God, yet they were very spiritual people?
		Oh, they believed in God.
		Pardon me?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		They believed in God.
		They were spiritual people.
		They worked for the church.
		They were believed in God.
unidentified		Okay.
		Do you think they were looking for a link?
		do you think they're trying to do what the catholic church has always denied in order to link science and basically i i suppose and today's life the regular person Yes.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		To experiments.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a serious endeavor, sir, that gets you in trouble with a lot of people.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		You got that right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And actually, it's kind of like the classic movie scenario where you've got both the government and the mob after you.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Well, I had a scientific skeptic who was an atheist tell me.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		He said, gee, I realized that not only do you have us against this, but you have all the churches against it, all the religions against it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that's quite a group.
		As I said, like the police and the mob.
		I mean, how do you win that one?
		You don't.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		The police and the mob.
unidentified		Well, maybe you've got to go over to the terrorists then.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At any rate, Bill, this has been an incredibly interesting night that I've spent with you over this whole affair.
		And I guess, as you said in your book, it has shaped your life to the degree that perhaps you would have had a happier life if you never had been involved, but not as interesting and intriguing a life.
		Is that correct?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		I believe that's correct.
		And I've enjoyed talking to you, and I say hello, everybody.
		My sister's the vice president of the Art Bell Club here in Chicago.
unidentified		Oh, really?
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, she's a Ph.D., and she dropped me a note here, and she says, I got the wrong Shakespeare thing here.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		It was L'Astrista, not Othello, that I referred to earlier.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see, all right.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Well, anyway, so the thing is, small stuff.
		By the way, my mom and sister are ham operators, too.
		I forgot to tell you that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, perhaps one day we'll run into each other on one of the bands.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I tend to hang out on 3840 on 75 meters, and I'd love to hear you get an antenna up that would do that and be able to talk to you.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		We have to work on that.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		So I just hope that we can all tip the world consciousness in the right direction and get away from all this bad stuff going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, buddy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thanks for being here.
bill sweet ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
		As I said, a fantastic and cautionary tale, indeed.
		What a weekend.
		From the high desert, I'm Mark Bell.
		This is Crystal Gale.
		The words were for me.
		Good night.
unidentified		Good night in the desert, shooting stars across the sky.
		This magical journey will take us on a ride Filled with the longing, searching for the truth We make it to tomorrow.
		The sun shines on you.

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