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April 17, 2005 - Art Bell
02:54:20
Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Bill Sweet - Prayer and Healing (Spindrift Research)
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and the high desert in the great american southwest i think you
all get even if one of the best
wherever you may be in the world's political time zones
Every single one of them covered like a blanket by this program, Coast to Coast.
A.M.
I'm Mark Bell, an honor, a privilege to be escorting you through the weekend, and man, It ain't over yet, folks.
What a show I've got for you tonight.
It's going to be mind-boggling, and I'll tell you all about it in a moment.
The webcam shot tonight is a little different.
We have one of our forecasts, Abby, our oldest one.
He's 15 now, as a matter of fact.
He's the one who actually had his own NDE.
You know, he stopped breathing and all the rest of it.
And the amazing vet brought him back to life.
It's a very long story.
But anyway, that photograph is of Abbey, who likes to sit in our laundry room.
This is his joy.
He sits in our laundry room and goes, MEOW!
MEOW!
And he likes to hear the echo off the walls.
Well, those are relatively small walls in the laundry room.
So, every now and then, we take him out.
We have a racquetball, indoor racquetball court.
Hey, pretty nice, huh?
And that photograph is of my lovely bride, Ramona, and Abby.
Now, you see, when we take him out to the racquetball court, there, a cat who lives to hear his own little meow voice, really can live.
I mean, there's an echo in there that won't quit, and he loves it.
He gets in there, well well well well well
that's good waxes way off the uh... the walls in the racquetball courts
that's what that picture is
that's one of the one of the times we took him into let it let me hear his
own voice times however many echoes you get a lot of them
all right now with respect to tonight's program on really really really looking
forward to this the book is uh... journey into prayers about
it's about some experiments that have to do with consciousness
and prayer And it's not a religious thing, if that's what you're looking for.
I suppose there are aspects of it, but not really.
This is a book written by a fellow named Bill Sweet, who, by the way, is an amateur radio operator.
And so he's very pragmatic, and he wrote about He wrote about these two men, actually a father and a son, Bruce and John Klingbeil, father and son team, and he wrote to me in his own handwriting, after their mysterious unexpected suicides between the 7th and 12th of May of 93,
I, as then president of Spindrift, spent years haunted by their memories.
Alas, twelve years later, the Klingbeil-Spindrift story is now to be told.
A journey into prayer would come across to your listeners as a spiritual exile, and a tale of the way the politics of prayer and parapsychology sometimes worked.
I suggest reading the epilogue on page 235 first, and I will read that in the next hour.
Signed, Bill Sweet, KF90K.
An extra-class amateur operator, my bad.
And these two men ran consciousness experiments.
Perhaps one too many, I don't know.
But this story is untold and absolutely and truly remarkable and goes hand-in-hand with the the whole consciousness realm that we're examining.
You're well aware of the experiments I ran so successful that I stopped them voluntarily and have not resumed them.
I am convinced beyond any shadow of any doubt that this whole power of consciousness thing slash prayer slash Whatever this spiritual world is, is absolutely real.
The power of prayer is real.
You know, it's proven.
Scientific double-blind tests have well proven it.
And you can pray for flowers, you can pray for people to get well, you can pray for a lot of things, and it has power.
Don't ever doubt it, and if you did, then listen tonight To a really eerie story.
That's what's coming up in a moment.
No, let's do it now.
Get it out of the way.
The world news is never good.
Now, Ruskin, Florida, a registered sex offender, has confessed to killing a 13-year-old girl who disappeared a week ago, saying he got into an argument with her and choked her to death in her home.
The sheriff said Sunday that would be David Ounscott, 36, was charged with first-degree murder a day after investigators found Sarah Lund's partially clothed body in an abandoned pond, Hillsborough County Sheriff David Gee said.
So, it seems as though there's no end to these horrible things of people, little girls, children being kidnapped, And murdered.
This is why I hate reading the world news.
A woman who led an effort to help those ravaged by violence in Iraq fell victim to the war herself when a car bomb has killed her and two other people on Sunday.
Maria Ruznicka, founder of the Campaign for Innocent Victims in Conflict, herself became one, died Saturday in the blast, which also killed an Iraqi and another foreigner.
Bringing their suitcases and personal views on the future of the church, the Cardinals, who will select the next Pope, settled in their room Sunday in the Vatican Hotel that is going to now be their home until the world's 1.1 billion Roman Catholics have got a new leader.
The conclave starts Monday after the 115 red-robed Cardinals Join a formal procession into the Sistine Chapel where efforts to maintain the secrecy of their deliberations now include installing jamming devices to foil sophisticated eavesdropping equipment.
Wow!
My personal view is that we're going to get another conservative Pope.
Pope John Paul He picked, hand-picked the Cardinals, and they're rather conservative.
He made sure of that, so my bets would go toward a German conservative Pope.
Just a wild guess.
Iraqi security forces, backed by U.S.
troops, have the town of Medain surrounded Sunday after reports of Sunni militant kidnappings of as many as a hundred Shiite residents, but apparently There were growing indications the incident had been grossly exaggerated, so not 100 kidnap, yet they don't have a number for us now.
Here's a weird one.
A seven-story wave, that'd be a rogue wave, damaged a cruise ship returning from the Bahamas over the weekend.
It smashed windows, Flooded more than 60 cabins.
Injured four passengers.
The Norwegian Dawn was diverted from its route when the ship ran into rough weather on the way back to New York on Saturday.
The 965 foot long vessel docked in the Charleston Harbor for repairs and departed for New York early Sunday after a Coast Guard inspection.
Was back in New York by noon on Monday.
Can you imagine that?
A seven story High wave.
These rogue waves are more common than the world knows.
Satellites, as a matter of fact, did a recent confirmation of that fact.
That, you know, that these rogue waves are far more common.
And I think if you talk to people who have been in the Navy, they'll tell you it's true.
And sailors live in fear of these gigantic, sometimes 100, 150 foot high Waves that seem to come out of nowhere for no particular reason.
Kaboom!
Even to a large cruise ship like that.
Potentially devastating.
So it broke windows and a lot of people got water in their cabins and I'm sure they were quite shocked.
back in a moment very shortly we will begin
open lines for the uh... the balance of this hour so if you have something you'd
like to get on the air and something of intense interest to the audience and you
might want to start dialing now Indonesian scientists have placed 11 volcanoes under close watch after a series of powerful quakes awoke intense subterranean forces and increased the chances of a major eruption.
Well, that figures, huh?
In the Sumatra area, where, of course, Now they've had two extremely major quakes, one with an associated tidal wave, tsunami, that killed, whoa, 125,000 or 30,000 people, a lot of people.
The fact that these volcanoes would be awakening is not a great surprise, now is it?
Tens of thousands of people have spent yet a third night in temporary camps after fleeing the slopes of Mount Tulang on Sumatra Island, where hot ash has been raining down since Monday.
How'd you like to have that hot ash raining down on you?
On Wednesday, Krakatoa was put on alert status amid warnings of poisonous gas emissions.
A similar warning earlier issued on yet another island Near the West Java City of Bandung, which will be next week hosting more than 50 heads of state, probably 50 very nervous heads of state.
As a matter of fact, Eugene Island, now this, I'm going to read you this story, but I don't frankly put much credence in it, but I'm open-minded, and so I'll read it to you.
This is what's going around right now.
You can tell me whether you believe it or not.
I don't.
I'll give you what I feel might be the explanation for this, but I think the overall conclusion is way wrong.
Eugene Island is an underwater mountain located about 80 miles off the coast of Louisiana in the Gulf of Mexico.
In 1973, they struck oil!
An offshore platform, Eugene, 330 feet, was erected.
The field began production at 15,000 barrels a day, then gradually fell off, as is normal, to about 4,000 barrels a day in 1989.
Then, a surprise!
It reversed itself and increased production to 13,000 barrels a day!
Probable reserves have been increased to 400 million barrels from 60 million The field appears to be filling from below, and the crude is coming up today.
Well, it's from a geological age very different from the original crude, which leads to the speculation that the world has limitless supplies of petroleum.
And it goes on.
This is some of the stuff that's running around the Internet today, and I want to take the issue with it.
I think what they claim here certainly is possible.
That is to say that a field that began having only reserves of so much has somehow released an adjacent field, or perhaps one below, or whatever, and this particular field is refilling on that basis, but I don't think for one second that the world's oil reserves are replenishing themselves, that something deep within the earth Is just throwing oil back up again?
I wish it were true.
I even hope it's true.
But I don't think it's true.
And I don't think the average geologist in America or anywhere in the world believes it's true.
But I do believe this story.
The first recorded sighting of earthquake lights dates back to 373 BC in Greece.
Have you heard of them?
Earthquake lights?
But stories have long been told of strange lights in the sky before, during, and after an earthquake.
Today, their existence is an accepted fact, although the mechanism that generates them is still very much a mystery.
The first known scientific investigation of earthquake lights took place in the 1930s And in the 1960s, earthquake lights were well documented in a series of photographs taken in Japan.
So, it's not just what people have seen, but it's also what they have photographed.
The lights are most evident in the middle of a quake.
People who have seen them sometimes describe them as searchlights, sometimes fireballs, sometimes lightning.
Other witnesses describe them as consisting of beams and columns of light, and still others report clouds that were illuminated during earthquakes, or simply an eerie glow in the sky.
Now, I'll buy that.
I would think when tectonic plates are rubbing against each other.
The forces are so enormous that electromagnetic energy of some sort is probably generated.
Anytime you have that kind of friction, you're bound to be getting electromagnetic energy, wouldn't you think?
So... So, uh... Yeah.
I, uh...
I think that it's something we all might watch for, those of us in earthquake zones, trying to have a camera ready.
Now, that's like saying, make sure when you see that UFO that you've got a camera.
I saw not one, but two.
And did I?
Well, actually, in the second one, I did run to get a camera.
And by the time I got back, it had zoomed south like a bat out of hell.
So I tried, in the second instance, but nobody's ever going to have a, you know, a camera handy.
Although, with today's millions and millions of digital cameras out there, you may get lucky and you may get a photograph of these earthquake lights.
I'd love to see it, wouldn't you?
Just a quickie.
Questions that really, really need answers.
For example, Who do you suppose was the first person to look at a cow and say to themselves, hey, I think I'll squeeze these dangly things here and drink whatever comes out?
Hmm.
Who was the first person to say, see that chicken there?
I'm gonna eat the next thing that comes out of its backside.
Ha ha! Why...
Why is there a light in the fridge, but not in the freezer?
Now, I love that one.
Think about that.
Why in heaven's name do they put a light in the refrigerator but not in the freezer?
If Jimmy cracks corn and no one cares, why is there a song about him?
Can a hearse carry a It's perhaps in poor taste, isn't it?
You have a hearse so you can get in the carpool lane.
Nope.
Why do people point to their wrist when asking for the time, but don't point... I can't read this one on the air.
Point to another area to find out where the bathroom is.
Oh, gee.
Questions that really need answers.
I have many more and I'll dribble them in.
I liked the first one.
The first person to look at a calendar and say, I think I'll squeeze these dangly things here and drink whatever comes out.
First time caller on the line, you're on the air.
Hello.
Good day, Art.
Good day.
I was calling about your cat near death experience.
I wanted to share my cat had died seven times.
I was introduced to this cat when I started working at a veterinary hospital.
And he was a cat that someone had brought in to basically put down because he was wetting in certain spots of the house and they were having difficulty in changing him.
I love disposable pets.
Isn't that great?
I'm not laying it on thick enough, I guess.
Sorry.
Isn't that great?
Isn't that wonderful?
Don't you love living amongst people with this type of attitude?
Well, to spare this cat's life, the hospital saw that he was going to be a very large adult male once he was full grown.
He was a nice domestic short hair.
And what they did is they used him as a blood donor whenever a cat would come in and need blood desperately, he was there to supply it.
I see.
Well, what happened was this was a tedious test that was usually delegated down to the interns.
And these guys would make mathematical errors when figuring out how much medicine to dose them with.
And it happened so many times.
And what it is is that when you draw blood, you're taking out a percentage of really the cat's overall body weight.
Well, of course.
You're not subtracting the weight, but it's You know, the amount of blood that's being removed.
So, basically, he would become overdosed because they're dosing him on an original weight.
So, in his life, he has died at least seven times on the table from just such an accident.
Well, uh, he's got at least three to go, so good luck to him.
Cats really are odd creatures, uh, when our Abby became so ill that, um, it's a long story, but he did, in fact, die on the table.
He was many weeks in getting better, and many thousands of dollars, but it was worth it, and now he's happy.
In fact, you can see him in the photograph on the webcam.
The picture again tonight is of Ramona in the racquetball court with Abby, who now, at 15 years of age, still loves to hear the sound of his own meow, and he loves to hear it echo.
He's a cat who's become, in fact, entranced with the whole concept of his own little meow being echoed and so he practices hours per day he practices in the laundry room every now and then we give him a treat and we take him out to the racquetball court and that's what the photograph is Abby exercising his lungs and joyously noting the reverberating sound that he creates off the walls it's kind of a joy to watch and an amazing thing when you think about it that
A cat would have... What's the right way to put it?
Enough of the realization of his own existence to enjoy hearing his own voice echo off the walls.
Now that's a kind of realization of self when you think about it, isn't it?
An understanding of your own existence?
In the night time, which is where we do our very best work.
This is Coast to Coast AM.
I'm Art Bell.
It's going to be a hell of a show tonight.
The heart of the city streets is beating.
The light from the neon's turned the dark to day.
We're too hot to sleep in.
We had to get out before the magic got away.
The yellow grass fires start to burn.
And the warnings on the beer cans gonna be buried in the landfills.
No deposits, no sad songs, and no return.
Yeah, it's only gonna take about a minute or so Till the factory's blotting the sun out
And you're gonna have to turn your lights on just to see And them lights are gonna be neon
Saying, fly our jets to paradise And the whole damn world's gonna be made of styrene
So listen well, my brothers When you hear the night wind sigh
And you see the waffles flying through the pre-polluted sky There won't be no country music
There won't be no rock and roll Cause when they take away our country
They'll take away our soul Yeah, do talk with Art Bell
Call the wild card line at area code 7 Call the Wildcard line at area code 7.
The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
To talk with Art Bell from East of the Rockies, call toll free at 800-825-5033.
line is area code 775-727-1222. To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll-free
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International callers may reach Art Bell by calling your in-country Sprint Access
number, pressing Option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
From coast to coast and worldwide on the Internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
It is indeed.
Under the category of questions, there are more of them that really need answers.
I don't know about the question, but have you ever noticed that when you blow in a dog's face, he gets mad at you?
But, when you take him on a car ride, he sticks his head out the window!
That's true, right?
And the biggest question of them all that may plague mankind until his last day on earth
Why doesn't glue stick to the inside of the bottle?
Welcome back One heck of a show coming, really, at the top of the hour.
It's going to be amazing, I think.
One of those stories that, A, has never been told before, and B, a story that absolutely corroborates all this work going on at Princeton and elsewhere about human consciousness.
And I think you're going to find it staggeringly.
Two men, a father and a son, We're investigating consciousness and prayer and its effect, and ended up committing suicide.
It's quite a story.
That's coming up at the top of the hour, but Twixt, now and then, it's all you.
First time caller on the line, you're on the air.
Hello.
Hello, Mark.
Hi.
Hi, my name's Dan.
I'm in Worland, Wyoming.
I'm listening to you on XM.
I used to get you out of Grand Junction, Colorado.
I've been listening about eight years.
Glad to have you.
What's up?
Well, I don't know.
I know you love cat stories, and I think I've got a good one, and I think it might even tie in with tonight's show.
I used to have a friend, and she had a cat that, you know, kind of hung around, but we weren't real close or anything.
Well, years go by, and I'm at an Indian sweat lodge meeting.
I was invited to a ceremony, and I was sitting, and you know, the medicine man that put it on, he was telling, he was a good friend, and he was telling me, you know, don't expect a whole lot, you know, but enjoy the experience.
I was hoping to get a vision and nothing came and they do this in rounds and there was eight of them and I think it was on the fourth round.
Out of nowhere, this cat came to me in a vision and said, you know, I'm kind of down to my boys.
Amber left and I've got no place to go and could I come live with you?
The cat said this?
Yes, in my vision.
Did it's little jowls move as it spoke?
No, I just saw a face.
So this was totally mind to mind?
I would say telepathy or something like that, you know.
So I thought, well, that was a strange little experience and all that.
And after it was over, I was with a good friend, and he was like, you know, these kind of things, I don't know if you've ever been involved, but they kind of leave your head ding-a-ling a little, you know.
He said, would you like to come over and have some coffee and talk this over?
I said, well, I will, but first I've got to go check on this deal.
So I drove by where this girl used to live, and there was a cat sitting in the street.
Bigger than Dallas.
And I pull up.
I just opened up the passenger door.
The cat jumped in and he's been with me three years now.
Holy mackerel.
Well, that's a serious story.
That's really a serious story.
Man!
I've been wanting to tell you this for a long time.
Well, I'm sure glad you made it through.
That's a whopper.
No kidding.
That's a butte.
Thank you very much.
You're welcome.
Good night.
Good night.
Oh, that's a butte.
Makes you wonder, doesn't it, about what realm of communication may someday be open between human beings and animals.
Wow, what a story!
What a story!
Waiting for that experience at a sweat lodge.
Bang!
The experience happened and it's a cat saying basically, hey, I need a house.
I need a family.
I need you.
And so you drive over to where you knew this cat had been and there it is waiting.
It jumps in the car and it's yours from Henceforth.
That's one hell of a story.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
Hello.
Hey, good morning, Mark.
Good morning.
Rick, I'm in Virginia right now listening to you on XM.
Yes, sir.
One of the satellites, either Rock or Roll, I'm not sure which one.
Yeah, that's right.
The XM satellites are named Rock and Roll, and man, they are rockin' and rollin'.
XM's everywhere.
I love it.
Love it.
Couldn't get by without it.
I have a question for you.
I drive a truck, and I've been interested in getting a mobile amateur radio.
I bought an amateur radio that I used, and I had to convert it, of course.
It was a 10-meter radio.
So, in other words, you were using it as a CB radio, and you converted it?
Right, yeah.
I had to convert it.
It's a Ranger.
And I just wanted to find out what you thought would be a good... I don't know if you do mobile, the mobile amateur, when you're out on the road in the RV or not.
You bet I do.
Well, what you would suggest is maybe a decent setup to, you know, whether it be 6 meter or 10 meter or 11 meter and what kind of equipment you recommend.
In what kind of vehicle?
Just in a big truck, in a semi.
In a semi.
Alright, well here, let me give you what I got.
Listen carefully.
On my RV, I have Very unusual structure.
It's a loop antenna that extends on and about about 19 or 20 inches above the RV all the way around.
You know what I ought to do?
I'll tell you what I'll do.
At the top of the next hour, if I can find it, I'll get the picture of what my RV looks like and I'll put it up for you.
You can see it for yourself.
It's really weird and wherever we go we get questions about it.
But it's an incredibly effective antenna, and you might do the same thing on a truck.
You certainly would be able to do the same thing on a truck.
And what it is, is an antenna that sticks up and goes all the way around.
I mean, there's nothing to match.
A lot of wire.
None of these little vertical antennas that everybody sees the truckers with for ten meters or whatever are worth a hoot on the lower frequencies compared to an antenna like Hello?
i'm going to show you i'm gonna go ahead and get the picture and put it up on the
webcam in in a few minutes top the hour when i have a moment and
you can take a look at it so that's what i would recommend is optimal
second of that of course you can put up uh... the typical whips or screwdrivers
so-called but i do favor uh... what i've concocted weird as it may be
and i i will show it to you at the top of the hour
east of the rockies you're on the air high Hello?
Yes.
Oh, okay.
I didn't know it was me.
That's you.
Yeah, about the oil deal.
I think that the oil is getting so high because China's using a lot of oil.
They're trying to get the price up.
And after they get the price where they want it, you'll be able to buy all the oil you want.
Sir, you see, with China using as much oil as it is, that fact alone is driving up the price of oil.
Everything in the world is supply and demand.
If there's not much supply and a lot of demand, The price is going to go up, and China has driven the price up, so all the oil we want at a certain price.
Yes, that's going to be true, absolutely, for a while.
Don't worry, you'll be able to get gas, but the price for it is going to get higher and higher and higher as the world runs out of oil.
Easily obtainable, reasonable, cheap oil.
The rest of it is still there, but it's going to be the second half If we're at that center of the bell curve, second half's going to be very hard, very expensive to get, and everybody's going to feel that at the gas pump, and the entire economy is going to feel it, and already is doing so.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hi.
Hello.
Hello.
Art, I enjoy your program.
Thank you.
I have a comment, a question, and one thing.
I have a cat named Misha, and she likes to lick her reflection in the mirror.
That's even worse.
Yes.
I wish I could have a camera when she does this ever again.
I couldn't believe it.
And the other thing is, I agree with you, the biodiesel, I mean, necessity, it's there, it's going to happen.
Smelling French fries as you drive.
Well, it beats the traditional diesel belch, right?
Mm-hmm.
And my comment is regarding, or the question, regards the Codex.
George Norrie had a guest on, I guess, last week, the week before, and then a couple of weeks prior to that, he had a woman doctor or scientist And she was talking about the Codex and I got very alarmed by that because I'm very much into nutrition or vitamins.
Alright, let's try and remind everybody what the Codex is.
It was late in the show last night when the doctor mentioned it.
Apparently it's a sort of a world or European right now standard which gets to the ridiculous side of things.
Almost where you'd have to have a prescription from a doctor to get an apple.
Now that might be Driving on the outside limits of what it really is, but it would restrict most health foods, additives and things that people think are good for them and put them in the realm of having to get a doctor's prescription.
That's basically it, right?
Yes, Art, but the thing is, I'm kind of confused.
I went down to this community co-op health food store, membership based, and they're very much into Everything holistic and you name it.
They have newsletters and what have you.
Yes.
And I got the manager and I said, well, they should know about this.
And I got, she came down and she says, well, no, we're already aware of this.
She says, check out this website, website called.
No, don't put it on the air.
No, I'm not going to.
I think it was, I won't.
But anyway, she, she mentioned it.
She says, you know, basically we have an exemption.
They have sought an exemption.
And I'm thinking, well, if they're telling her that, where's she getting this information?
I hope that's not a ruse, because your guests have been saying one thing, but she's told me we have sought an exemption from that, so it will not apply to us.
Alright, well I hope for her sake that that's true.
Either way, the fact that they're considering legislation of that kind of depth is very worrisome.
And what happened to individual freedom?
I understand we need an FDA and regulations to a certain degree.
To protect the American public, we don't want some wholesale disaster on our hands, but there are limits, and this so-called Codex seems to be well beyond them as far as the average freedom-loving American is concerned.
Good morning, you're on the Air Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
Hello.
Good morning, Mr. Bill.
Good morning.
My name's Paul, calling out of Columbus, Ohio, and I have a question about We're actually just seeking information about Zachariah Fitch and the Earth Moon and Mars Moon.
What about the Moon?
I don't know much about the subject.
Okay, what are you asking about the Moon?
No, I was talking with a guy who told me a little story about how the Moon was like a Death Star.
The Moon as a Death Star?
Really?
Yeah.
He was saying, like, how the Moon never took place.
In other words, what?
The Moon, then, is an alien base with evil intent?
Basically, yeah.
It's a mothership, I guess, for the Zeta Reticulans, I think they're called.
You know, I think you've got some things mixed up here.
I probably do.
I don't know much about the subject.
Zeta Reticulans, I don't think are occupying our moon, and I don't think the moon is a Death Star.
It's just our moon, and I think there are pretty good evidence to indicate the moon was actually carved out of the Earth.
At some point, by something big, by some very large collision.
The moon is a death star, there's a concept.
First time caller line, you're on the air, hello.
Hello, yes.
Yes, it sounds like you've got something big going on behind you.
That's better.
Yeah, I'm driving a truck at the moment.
Oh, so you closed your window?
Yeah.
Alright, where are you?
In Florida at the moment on an I-10.
Okay.
I just had a little cat story.
It was quite a few years ago, probably like 15, 20 years ago.
I was with some friends at a flea market and we found this little kitten all curled up under a park bench.
And it was in pretty sad shape, like dehydrated and malnourished.
Real tiny.
You could put it in the palm of your hand.
I brought it home to my mom and she basically nursed it back to health.
I heard another caller calling many months ago already about having a kitten that she had nursed back and for quite a while it just walked in circles.
And this kitten did the same for months.
It was probably traumatized.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Traumatized.
Losing mom, losing home, losing everything.
It was probably trauma.
Yeah.
We figured it might have had some brain damage or whatnot.
I don't know.
But eventually it did get better.
And an unusual thing about this kitten is that it's got seven toes on all four of its paws.
No kidding.
So, we named it Bigfoot, and my mom still got it today, and it's the most loving cat you'll ever know.
I appreciate the story, sir.
It's a good one.
Again, isn't the whole relationship thing between humans and animals, be it cats, dogs, whatever, it's an amazing thing to behold.
We have an obvious, strong affinity for each other.
Now, has it always been this way?
Has man and certain animals always had this kind of affinity for each other?
And it's more than just a casual affinity.
It's an extremely strong affinity.
Our cats love us as much as we love them.
I mean, it's not something made to happen.
It's something that is made to happen.
I don't know if the words are coming out right and I'm expressing myself correctly, but it's just something that is.
This relationship is supposed to exist and it does in spades.
Bob Hardline, you're on the air.
Hi.
Hi, this is John calling from Wilmington, North Carolina.
Australia?
No, Wilmington, North Carolina.
North Carolina, okay.
Yeah, I have a question for you.
You seem to be pretty well versed with radio and frequency and things like that.
A little bit.
I'm a security guard now.
I used to be a network technician for cell phone towers and work with them and things like that.
I'm not too well versed with how frequency works and everything, but recently, the past three days, like all the Wilmington area, wherever I talk on my cell phone or wherever my friends talk on their cell phone, they get static, like really bad static on any service, any carrier.
And I know every carrier is on a different frequency.
Not only that, My CV at work, where I work, all the radios at work get static, like this constant, uh, just weird noises coming through the radios, coming through the cell phones, coming through basically anything, any kind of device that uses frequency, any kind of analog or digital device has been getting some really weird noises.
Well, it could be, um, electrical disturbance caused by, um, a bad transformer or something in your immediate area.
Which would affect a very wide span of frequencies, and one way you can figure that out for yourself is to get a portable radio and put it in the passenger seat next to you, tune it in so you can hear the static, and start driving around your neighborhood and find it.
Well this is, I mean, within about a 45 mile radius.
I was wondering, this is the reason I called, because there's a nuclear power plant that they've been working on recently.
And I heard they were having some problems, and this is probably about 20, 30 miles within this radius, that they've been having some problems because they were taken out.
I think they were trying to drain the pond or something like that, and they had a problem, and they had to shut the whole plant down.
But ever since, and that's recently happened, this has been going on.
I wonder if that could have anything to do with it, and that's why I called.
I would say you should hope not.
That's the only advice I can give you.
You should hope that is not the source.
Would radiation do that?
I mean... Well, I don't know.
It might.
Or something askew with the power plant might.
Again, the only way... You can track something like that down.
In the way I described, you might have to do a bit more of a drive if it's really affecting that kind of area.
But that kind of thing can be tracked down.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hi.
Going once, going twice, gone.
International Line, you're on the air.
No, make that west of the Rockies.
Hi.
Hi there, Art.
This is Ed in Los Angeles.
Maybe we should have a biodiesel day.
Have you heard anything about a boycott of By the truckers of diesel fuel or anything like that?
No, and I don't see how realistically they could do that.
These truckers have a job to do.
They've got to get from point A to point B, and they can't boycott diesel or they're boycotting their jobs.
Yeah, well, I saw on some website some boycott.
Did you ever put any biodiesel in your camper?
No, in my RV, no.
We've never yet.
Past a location where they're selling it, but I can guarantee you that the first time we do, we're going to fill up and give everybody a report.
I mean, we're bound to do that.
There's one, I think the closest is in northern Nevada or something.
Somebody looked it up for me.
So, as soon as we get the opportunity, we're going to fill up and give it a try.
Great.
Yeah.
Well, let's hope we get the soybeans instead of the oil from the Middle East.
Well, look, our farmers can grow soybeans.
Our farmers, American farmers, can make money growing soybeans and converting it into energy.
Our truckers, I'm sure, if the price was right, would much rather fill up with biodiesel, and certainly something produced by American farmers, any old day, than imported diesel number two.
So, there you have it.
In addition, I'd like to remind you That we have to, we have to have our truckers on the road.
They have to be there, ladies and gentlemen.
If they're not, we're not going to have things on the shelf.
It's that critical.
Coming up in a moment, a story you should sit down, turn the radio up, stop all diversions, and listen very carefully to.
Coming right up.
All these things in our memories are, and they use them to help us to find.
I.
You.
You.
.
you Oh
To talk with Art Bell, call 1-800-637-8473.
To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 7.
Bell. Call the wildcard line at area code The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll free at 800-825-5033.
line is area code 775-727-1222. To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll-free
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pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903. From coast to coast and worldwide
on the Internet, call Art Bell at 800-825-5033. This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
It is my pleasure now to get ready to escort you into a different way of thinking, a
different way of thinking, a different A very different way of thinking.
This is going to be quite a program, I guarantee it.
It was just a number of years ago that I decided somewhat, in retrospect, egocentrically, I think, that I would begin some experiments after hearing a number of my guests talk about consciousness.
And perhaps the power of mass consciousness.
You know, millions of minds concentrating on one thing.
I began to engage a series of experiments.
And there were nine or perhaps ten or eleven total.
I think by the time I finally decided that it was wiser to stop this course of action.
But in the beginning we tampered with things like Mother Nature.
We were getting stories, for example, of a drought in Texas and so I made people stop in the middle of a commercial break and millions of people close their eyes and concentrate on rain forming in that area of Texas.
And let me tell you, within hours, out of nowhere, without it being anywhere near being in the forecast, clouds formed and rain came.
In fact, So much rain that in parts of Texas they flooded.
The same in the northwestern part of the U.S.
and Canada.
They had a terrible drought.
We did it again.
Again, the rain formed and came when it should not have.
When there was no forecast of rain.
Try and imagine that.
A couple of times, maybe.
But five or six times in a row, no way.
I began to become an absolute believer myself.
How could I not?
There were instances of praying for people who had very serious illnesses.
The same level of concentration was applied.
The people came back and said, Oh my God, I was in the hospital.
I felt it happen, Art.
I felt it happen.
So, without going into detail of all the different experiments we did, they were all at that level.
You know, big things.
Somebody who didn't have much of a chance of living.
Weather systems that ought not be there, that we actually created with our minds.
I mean, after you've done this 10 or 11 times, you begin to realize that you're onto something.
It really works.
This is a gigantic power.
But with it comes the knowledge that you could make a mistake.
And that there could be unintended consequences.
So as a result, I stopped doing it.
But my interest could not be higher.
Could not be higher.
And so this is natural for me.
Bill Sweet wrote the following.
After their mysterious, unexpected suicides, between the 7th and 12th of May of 1993, I, as President of Spindrift, I think that's the name, Spindrift, Spent years haunted by their memories.
Alas, twelve years later, the Klingbeil spindrift story is told.
A journey in a prayer would come across to your listeners as a spiritual ex-file.
And the tale of the way of politics of prayer and the parapsychology, the way it works, Bill Sweet and he's a ham, KF9DK.
Bill Sweet graduated from the Newcher High School and Illinois State University with a major in communications.
He was president of an entertainment booking agency in Chicago.
That's interesting.
His avocations include being an investor, an audiophile, and a ham radio operator.
Bill was always interested in how consciousness and prayer relate to science and religion.
A natural connection between like-thinking people resulted in his involvement in the research of prayer and consciousness at Spindrift Research, where he became president.
A favorite quote of Bill's is by Charles Steinmetz, the father of modern electricity.
Someday, the scientists of the world will turn their laboratories over Sounds a little religious, doesn't it?
But it's not really going to be.
This story, although it's going to have, I guess, connections to the concept of God and whatever else there may be, really was not religious.
A lot of scientific Double-blind studies have been done.
In fact, the foreword to this book is written by a doctor who himself became a convert after doing his own experiments.
That would be Dr. Larry Dossey.
And so, in a moment, comes Bill Sweet and a story you've never heard.
never you see it's my belief that after the experiments i did
and thinking i've done about the subject and it's simply my conjecture
uh... one day mankind is going to find out that mass consciousness is the
single most powerful force in the universe .
you I say that again, the single most powerful force in the universe dwarfing
The splitting of the atom and all its various applications, some good, some bad.
And so I think no less of this, and I think that much of this.
And this will deal with sort of the fringes of all of that, the story you're about to hear.
Here is Bill Sweet.
Bill, welcome to the program.
Well, thank you.
It's a pleasure being here.
Where are you?
I'm right outside Chicago near O'Hare Field.
Oh, okay.
Excellent.
Two guests in a row near Chicago.
I don't even know where we begin.
It's long form talk radio.
We've got plenty of time, so I guess we should begin in the beginning with you and how you became interested yourself in this and got involved.
I've always been interested in the paranormal.
I've always been interested in religious things, spiritual overtones of things.
I try to relegate them together and bring them into a scientific concept.
It's just all these things together.
Of course, it's kind of hard to mix all these things together, but I've always been interested in that.
I just happened to meet a gal and she said, you have to meet my father and my brother.
They were Bruce and John Klingbaugh.
I live in Mount Prospect, Illinois.
They lived in Schaumburg, Illinois, which was three towns away.
They were professional healers for the Christian Science Church, known as Christian Science Practitioners.
They were also very interested in natural science.
They had some natural science background, too.
In fact, Bruce Klingbaugh, the father, I wanted to be either a forest ranger, a Christian science practitioner, or a natural scientist.
So, kind of got all these things going at the same time when he got into the spindrift area of research.
And so, when I met them, I found out they were doing these terrific experiments.
They were just basic science, simple experiments with plants and with some parapsychology tests, too.
They were inorganic tests.
So, what were they trying to accomplish?
What were they actually doing?
What were the experiments?
Well, the idea of it was that they were trying to show that there was something to it, because they found that in the more sophisticated age, people were having experiences, but they could describe them in different ways.
Oh, I would have gotten well anyway, or this would have happened anyway, or maybe I was misunderstanding what happened.
You're referring to the power of prayer, so the audience understands.
You're talking about praying?
I am talking about praying.
And so what they wanted to do was find a way to isolate certain characteristics of prayer so that in a scientific context you could show that there is something going on other than chance, other than belief, and show that there is something going on at a distance.
We call it paranormal.
The consciousness is affecting something at a distance.
And so what they did was that they set up some experiments, not dealing with people because people were too complex to deal with at first.
Yeah, to deal with plant systems.
And they would, for instance, they would set up things that were naturally happening in nature, like soybean seeds, for instance.
They would take them and they'd have people pray for the soybean seeds that were under some kind of stress.
Like the stress might be that they were over soaked.
They had too much moisture.
So these young seedlings could not prosper because they had too much water.
So a person would pray and they Do you know how complex the experiments were?
For example, how many people were in the groups doing the prayer?
would give off water and move more to a normal state.
And that would be compared to a control group of soybeans that was not prayed for, that
was not recovering as quickly.
And over time you accumulate the results and you can show something is happening there.
Do you know how complex the experiments were?
For example, how many people were in the groups doing the prayer?
Any idea?
Well, what we were doing were one-on-one experiments.
One person praying for one experiment.
It wasn't a group thing at this point.
We were trying to show that there was a connection between the healer and the healing, between the subject, the person praying, and the object.
We were trying to make this connection.
And this is what we were trying to do in our simple experiments.
Now, we would have other experiments with soybeans, too, where they would be under-soaked and the soybeans could not prosper because they didn't have enough moisture and the person would pray.
And what would happen was the seeds would take on moisture from the air and they would move towards normal as compared to a control group.
Now those are experiments that people might say, well I've heard of things like that before.
But what is interesting, like taking that example was, is that we could bring in people that were very experienced with prayer from different backgrounds.
They were healers, energy people, things like that.
And they wouldn't know what they were praying for.
They didn't know what the need of the plant was.
They knew that there was a need.
They didn't know it was over-soaked, under-soaked, they didn't know it was problemless, but they would pray for it.
And what we found was, is that if you could set up soybean seeds that were over-soaked next to soybean seeds that were under-soaked, and you had somebody that really knew how to pray, that same prayer would help the seeds that were over-soaked give off moisture and move towards normal.
At the same time, that prayer would help the other group of seeds that were under-nourished with moisture Take on water and move towards normal.
So the same prayer produces two effects.
Yeah, I hear you.
Here's a bigger question though.
We don't know the effect of the field.
In other words, you might be praying for one plant or even praying for two plants, but how do you know that plants a hundred miles, two hundred miles, the other side of the earth, did not in also some way respond?
Do we know the field of the effect of this?
How direct it is?
I suppose the butterfly effect applies to everything.
You cannot isolate thought completely.
But we do have another experiment that was, in fact, a demonstration of how close you can get to isolating an effect.
The queen biles took a mold and put it on a petri dish and put a string down the middle of it and rinsed it with alcohol.
Not enough to kill it, but enough to hinder it.
And there was a side A and a side B determined by the string, and a healer would determine which side they wanted to pray for.
But let's say side A was the control group but they decided to pray for side B, and they were able to show that the prayer enhanced and affirmed side B, and several more rings would grow on side B from the prayer, but side A did not grow anymore.
So there is a degree to which You can isolate thought.
You're not always that fortunate, but there's an experiment where you can.
Now, that wouldn't mean that on some minuscule level that something else because of the butterfly effect isn't being affected.
There's a lot of interesting guesses about that.
Well, you said that the butterfly effect, that refers to a butterfly flapping its wings in South America causing a windstorm ultimately in Australia or something like that.
That's correct.
But that's not what I'm asking.
What I'm asking is the direct effect, if you're praying for a plant, or casting out a general prayer, and it affects two plants with two separate problems, what we don't know is how far the actual field itself, what it encompasses, whether it's just going to those particular plants, or it's, forget the butterfly effect, but actually it's radiation is limitless And might go around the whole earth?
Well, it could be, but there wouldn't be a way to measure that.
There very well could be.
And I would think that there would be for future investigations.
But yes, what we're trying to do is find a way to measure things.
That would be kind of a guesswork.
I mean, I would believe that every prayer has an effect that goes on and on, just like sending out waves.
Was there anything cultish at all about what the Klingbels were doing?
Was it cult-like at all?
It was perceived so.
It was?
It was, yes.
with the ever have lincoln speaking with the put together a speech of the
chemicals wave together was there anything uh...
cultish at all about what the thing those were doing was a blue coat like
at all it was perceived to help
it was it was yeah the idea
was very terrible when spender started nineteen sixty nine up until about
nineteen ninety five december nineteen ninety five year
the idea that you could mix the scientific method
with some religious concepts with healing
parapsychology and come up with
a combination that would be workable it was a with all those combustible things working together
became uh... an anathema to many people and they just did not
I like it.
I mean, church groups actually prayed against our group.
People lost their jobs.
We've had divorces.
We've had our literature ripped up, burned.
Wait a minute.
Church groups prayed against your effort?
It's true.
Yes, we happen to know them.
We had a flood of hate mail that would tell us what was going on and people would let us know.
What was the center reason?
When you got this hate mail, what was it centered on, please?
I would say it's centered on tempting the Lord.
People say you should never tempt the Lord of these things, or God's power cannot be brought into the laboratory, or parapsychology is the work of the devil and you can't bring that in.
Really?
Oh yes, and science is inadequate to measure spiritual things and things like that.
Anything you can imagine, it's really something.
I've lost friends over it.
Bill, how was even the immediate area aware enough of what you were doing to take up this effort against it?
Was it in the press or what?
Well, we had quite a few things in the press.
In my book, for instance, A Journey Into Prayer, I have a whole chapter there on our connections to politics.
The president of Spindrift was a guy who ran for the Republican candidate as governor of colorado
and the only thing uh... john andrews only thing i could find them
that about him was connections to a bunch of coops so-called prayed for plants in the laboratory and public our results
from a so that was a big thing
that was the chief thing that the country the whole election
And that got all over the national press.
We were in the Washington Post.
Well, that answers my question.
That's how they glommed on to you.
And so they hated your guts, basically, meaning the religious side.
And then, of course, there was the other side, the scientists.
And I imagine they were equally upset.
I'm sure you know about this.
A lot of the skeptics claim they're atheists and everything else, but actually I've seen equal amounts of fundamentalism from the skeptics as I have from the so-called religious fundamentalists.
They just go berserk on things like this.
You mean scientific fundamentalism?
Yes.
Oh sure, I think some scientists are what I call scientific supremacists.
The thing is that I think it worries people that It worries religious people that this gets out into evil areas.
It worries the skeptics that it gets out into this wild thing, that the world's going crazy.
If people start believing this stuff, even if it's true, we're going to have people on the streets doing psychic stuff and mass consciousness and everything.
We can't have that!
Well, that person might have a point.
I'd have to...
When you look around at some of the consciousness at work in the individual minds, it's a worry.
It's a concern.
Yes, well, in fact, the Spindroff Research, Bruce and John Klingbau and some of their family members and some other people, after this started getting stirred up about Spindroff and everything, they realized that there are some bad consequences out there.
More people realize that some of this stuff might actually be true about consciousness, that you can affect things and affect people.
It's a Pandora's box.
You know of my experiments, right?
Yes.
Well, I can't recall ever else in my career when I walked into something as powerful as what I walked into with those experiments.
And it totally, totally freaked me out when I realized what I was tampering with.
And reality hit me, and I realized it was stupidly egotistical to blunder around in an area that I knew nothing about.
I stopped.
And that caution was reaffirmed by others that I've interviewed from Princeton.
You know, the guys doing the consciousness experiment there.
Alright, brother.
Hold on.
We'll get right back to you.
What you're going to hear is going to be a whale of a story of the Klingbiles, what they did, and the tragic end they came to.
From the high desert, I'm Mark Bell.
I'm made of these Who am I to disagree?
I travel the world and the seven seas Everybody's looking for something
Some of them want to use you Some of them want to get used by you
Some of them want to abuse you Some of them want to be abused
You make me Black velvet like slow southern style
A new religion that I'll bring out to please Black velvet
The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll free at 800-825-5033.
line at area code 775-727-1295. The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll free at 800-825-5033. From west
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calling your in-country Sprint Access number, pressing option 5 and dialing toll free 800-893.
From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
And he was ever so right.
It sets up exactly the path that we want to go down.
As we talk about this perhaps greatest power in the universe, this mass consciousness that
we're, that I've toyed with in the past, don't anymore, but this giant power that believe
me is, in a moment I'll read you that epilogue and you can judge for yourself.
I think this might help you understand what Bill Sweet and the Clean Dolls were doing.
It's been said that gratitude is the highest form of prayer.
I'm grateful that the Cling Biles pioneering research has sparked others to research prayer and consciousness.
If holy prayer produces any noticeable effect, restored order is part of that noticeable effect.
Proposals to test the proposition that prayer produces calming or healing effects is beginning to be attempted as part of the investigation of human consciousness, the brain, The Effects of Holiness and Spirituality.
Bruce and John Klingbeil used all the know-how and all the equipment they could muster to test the proposition that prayer produces several kinds of effects, including ordering effects.
Referring to Bruce and John Klingbeil, two researchers at the St.
Louis Medical Center wrote, quote, their work enters the further reaches of parapsychological research.
Reading these sections, one has the distinct impression That the authors reached the limits of current scientific methods in exploring the questions they raised.
Was the payoff worth the punishment?
No good deed goes unpunished.
The hated spindrift has received for introducing experiments.
Testing prayer makes me wonder if the spindrift effort was worth the turmoil and unhappiness it caused some of us associated with the experiments.
I hope the payoff was worth the time and money we spent.
Speaking for myself, life would have been a lot happier had I not known Bruce and John Klingbeil's experiments.
But life would have been a lot less intriguing.
One intrigue was to watch the wild negative reactions to unconventional ideas for marrying religion, consciousness, and science.
Even the tragedy of 9-11 Points to the importance of testing prayer.
Spindrift knew that prayer wasn't always motivated by good.
There is a dark side to prayer.
At least as seen globally, when terrorists revealed they prayed five times a day, then they killed people.
Philosopher Pascal penned Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction, end quote.
After 9-11, a UFO researcher wrote me saying, quote, who needs invading aliens to destroy the earth when we have religious terrorists, end quote.
Question.
9-11 provided proof that the brain's conditioning about God and prayer could potentially annihilate mankind.
The world's democracies may be forced to acknowledge that the war on terrorism is a war of ideologies of love and hate and intense belief about prayer.
And then in bold print, world patterns of love and hate may become as necessary to track as weather patterns.
For the religious terrorist and meek alike, The following words of Dr. Albert Schweitzer point to higher motives in prayer for mankind.
Quote, We must realize that all life is valuable and that we are united to all life.
That's really important.
United to all life.
From this knowledge comes our spiritual relationship, if I might, to the universe.
When it's established that prayer does affect people, The moral makeup of each of us will tip our prayers to include our neighbors, or lock and load our prayers to kill our neighbors.
Our holy motives in prayer, or lack of them, are in proportion to what we believe is the true nature of God.
We need only look at the world today to see that our deep motives in prayer result in physically affecting mankind.
Mrs. Eddy writes, quote, As mankind increasingly discovers it's in a computerized century, it seems likely that everything worth investigating about consciousness will gradually be given a chance.
Since the Spindrifters raised science questions about consciousness and prayer that created outrage, Perhaps the worst outrage is over for now, and other researchers can move freely to investigate the effects of prayer, spirituality, and consciousness on healing.
So, I'll stop there, but basically that gives people an idea of what you've written about here, Bill, when you wrote about these two men, a father and a son, right?
That's right, a father and son, both professional healers and both were interested in showing that there was some provability to this and it caused a lot of bad things along the way.
And it's very interesting what you said that you stopped doing these things.
It probably scared you.
You found out there was an effect and it scared you.
It was kind of interesting because it reminded me during the break that we had a couple people who did our spindrift experiments and they wanted nothing more to do with them after that.
It scared them that they could actually see that their thought did something.
Yeah, well, yes, and I was toying with it at a kind of gigantic level.
I mean, creating rain where there was none, where there was no humidity in the air to even produce the rain, and then creating it.
You know, the first couple times, I guess I chuckled and said, wow, that's amazing.
By about the 10th or the 11th time, Bill, I had begun to reflect on the possibility of doing something... I mean, for example, in Texas, we prayed for rain.
We got it all right.
They had flooding.
It can go wrong.
People wrote to me about... I even toyed with the idea of perhaps diverting a hurricane.
But then it occurred to me, okay, fine.
What if we divert it, but just by a little bit, it sits out in the warm Gulf waters, growing larger and larger, THEN hits land?
In other words, I don't know what the hell I'm doing, Bill, and based on that realization, yeah, I stopped.
Yes.
Well, you've got it.
And so, there are ramifications to all this research, but you know we have to move forward.
Every invention has its bad things.
We all know the story about the atom bomb.
We had to split the atom, but it could have been used one way or used another way.
Unfortunately, it can be used for good or bad, and consciousness can be used for good or bad.
And I suppose the future is going to be kind of a tipping point.
Either we're going to go forward when we discover what can be done with thought, or we're going to actually take our discovery of what mass consciousness can do, use it upon ourselves, and annihilate ourselves.
Well, Bill, I'm really in favor of going forward with it, even though I personally stopped.
You know, I'm just a talk show host.
The people who should be going forward with this Are the scientists and maybe the religious people too?
I don't know.
And I'm not sure, by the way, Bill, I'm not sure the two are related.
I think that prayer is just like closing your eyes and not appealing at all to God, but appealing for rain and trying to manifest rain.
So, Bill, in my own mind, I don't know that this power is actually related to God, and that gets you in a lot of trouble when you say stuff like that.
Well, let me take a crack at it, okay?
Be my guest.
I don't have any proof about God, but I think that what we can make as a good argument is a distinction that we make at Spindrift between prayer, which is goal-oriented, which is praying for rain or whatever, and prayer, which is non-goal-oriented, which is praying for what is best.
And when we get into this area where we get our own ideas away from what we think we want to do but pray for what should turn out to be the best in the situation, we find results that we don't anticipate that are normalizing for a situation that actually don't bring danger and bad consequences along with what we desired.
And what that means in terms of the spiritual argument is that we can't prove the existence of God.
We think that we can prove through non-goal directed prayer, which we call, I will be done prayer, when they get the ego out of the way, is that a cultivated consciousness of these spiritual qualities and premises and desires to have what is best for a situation to occur, brings only good results.
But you can't anticipate them, but ultimately you see how it normalizes the situation, harmonizes the situation.
Alright, but there's a big but here though.
What's that?
Well, it's but what I just read.
For example, If the men who drove those airplanes into the World Trade Centers prayed hard enough, God knows, it's just they prayed five times a day, devoutly, before they decided they would do their deed.
And their deed resulted in thousands of innocent people being killed, thousands of Americans being killed.
And they succeeded.
The power of their prayer apparently was as great as the power anybody might manifest for the good.
You have a very interesting point there, Art.
We don't know how this is going to eventuate.
It would seem at this point that people's goal-oriented thoughts and goal-oriented prayers are more powerful, it seems so, than the power of good thoughts.
It's this tipping point concept that we could tip either way.
But Bill, it's subjective.
In the minds of the men who were praying for success in knocking those buildings down, to them, from their perspective, it was a good thing.
It didn't produce good.
That's from our point of view.
I hate to put it that way, but that is from our... Well, it is our point of view, but we would define good as producing order, not disorder.
But their prayer was to produce disorder for a goal that they considered good, the smashing
of the Red Sea.
No doubt about it.
So even good is somewhat subjective?
Yes.
People have crude ideas of good.
There's no question about that.
What there seems to be no question about is the real power of prayer.
Is it your position, Bill, that the more people involved in this goal-oriented prayer, the stronger it is?
Yes.
But then again, one person with a clear thought in a way that nobody else is knowing what they're doing can break through that. I'll tell you, let me just cut in
just real quick. It's kind of a complicated concept, but I'll just say that when a person prays alone
in the secret of Jesus, talking about shutting the door and being in the closet and all that,
what you're trying to do there is come up with a strategy of praying for something that's undefended,
that nobody else is thinking about.
If a whole mass consciousness is around something and you're trying to pray about that too, you're
They're going to overwhelm you.
But you have to pray about something that they're not thinking about.
All right, let's take a what if, Bill.
What if we had found out ahead of time what the goal of these men was?
That is, that their goal was to drive these planes into buildings, into the Pentagon.
Had the world or the U.S.
known about that?
Do you think that the prayers That would be on the other side of the question.
Heaven knows God, I'm sure, is getting sick of being appealed to by two sides of an argument.
Well, there are three times that Jesus says, don't just pray, also watch, which is translated to mean being alert to what's happening around you.
And if we had been more alert to what's happening around you, we would have known what to pray about and what physical actions to take, too.
We were asleep.
That's the reason we had 9-11.
Let's go back.
Yeah, we were asleep.
No, you're right.
And so their prayers were the ones alone heard on the subject until the event happened.
Well put.
Yeah, that's just a fact.
Now, I'd like to understand how you became president of... By the way, what does Spindriff stand for?
Anything?
You know what?
People are... That's what they remember about this.
I didn't like the term when I got involved in the group, but it's the one thing that people remember.
It's a nautical term.
It's in most dictionaries.
refers to the uh...
artists the big stupid about hurricane storms are the type of it's a storm out
at sea stirring up the wave in the wave is moving so fast at the
edge of the wave the spray
becomes almost a physical form of water to picture faces something
like nails going into a particular phenomenon i've only met one person my
wife who's uh...
been in the picture of a seems to be a pretty almost lost her life and it's
something i want to see so again uh... this is what is on top of a monstrous
wave yes uh... survey uh... uh...
an atmosphere of extremely dense water is that fair to say it's very thinly
if it's the chip of the way that spray at the top of the way it's been blown by
the way out and it's week you've got a couple for the name of our group
because it symbolizes
cutting edge between the visible water and the invisible realm of uh... paper
there like consciousness So we're right at the cutting edge doing research at the cutting edge of visible matter and invisible consciousness.
Alright, when you met these two men, did you at that time form Spindrift or was it already there?
Oh, it was already there.
I met them in the late 70s.
They had been working on it from 1969 forward.
It incorporated as a non-profit organization in 1981 in Illinois.
Research organization.
But they were doing these experiments and they were getting people coming in to volunteer to pray for experiments.
My job when I became president right away, I had to find statisticians to hire to keep track of the data and I had to procure scientific equipment for them.
They had Bruce and John Klingbaum in 1977 when I met them.
Had one of the very first Apple II computers, one of the very low serial numbers.
And they got right into this stuff and started automating some of their experiments.
They were using hand scales to measure seeds and yeast cells and different kinds of systems.
And we were also, they used one of the very first random, well, not one of the very first, but one of the first amateur attempts at it.
They had a random Oh, this is so fascinating.
Of course you know that's what's going on at Princeton.
That's right.
We put circuits in there and we compared random numbers, what would happen if you pray over
them, and they would go into different patterns that weren't random.
It was very interesting.
Oh, this is so fascinating.
Of course you know that's what's going on at Princeton.
That's right.
I'm certain that you have to be very familiar with...
Oh yes, and they worked the Klein-Biles in a friendly relationship for a lot of years.
I find them very encouraging.
We were the amateurs and they were the professionals, but there has been a lot of communication
back and forth.
Very wonderful people there and other places too.
There have just been some wonderful people in the parapsychological community.
How amazed are you, Bill, at the experiments going on now at Princeton with the AIDS?
I find them very encouraging.
There was just a meeting of eight or ten of those guys getting together, guys you have
to get on like Russell Targ and they got together and they are not going to be too strong on
how they feel about it because then the skeptics will jump on you, but they really think there
is something there.
There's a problem with the signal to noise level and some of those things but there's enough evidence to show that something is going on and it's very exciting because what is going to happen is that Like you read from my book, that someday democracies are going to have to take seriously the idea of judging world love and hate going on.
It may be that this is a prototype way of doing it through the egg experiments, which is the global I experiment basically kind of through random numbers monitoring unrest in the world, things going on in the world, and these numbers jump all over the place when big news events happen.
They absolutely do, and their hit rate is beginning to be better than any of the psychics I've ever had on this program, and so I'm beginning to watch those.
And by the way, the audience should know, you can actually go to a site at Princeton And you can look at these, you'll hear a heartbeat, which is really eerie.
And then you'll see all these different scales of these different eggs scattered all over the globe, reporting in.
And you'll see the graph going up and down, and bells ringing, and buzzers going off.
And it's all kept on a graph, like an earthquake chart.
You'd see, you know, whenever we have an earthquake, they show on TV, and you see the chart, and then you see the sudden swing.
Well, that's what they're looking for in this experiment.
And these sudden swings occur hours before events, like 9-11.
Four hours, the thing went berserk before the event.
And as we go back through history, I don't know how many years now, a lot of years, it's just nailed them one after another.
So they're beginning to be curiously miraculous.
It's unbelievable.
That's Roger Nelson's experiment.
He started that.
Yes.
It's exciting.
You made me think of something I hadn't thought of, but I have it in the book, but I didn't write it up until now, and that is that Bruce and John Klainbile, I don't know the years, but I'll probably say it was the early 80s, late 70s, made a prediction that what would actually end up being the thing that establishes, as a smoking gun, that such a thing exists as psychic thought, consciousness thought, and even prayer thought.
Would be machinery, not human beings, because machinery are more objective than human beings who are subjective.
So here is an example of that.
You have these inanimate objects called random event generators that are actually established.
And there is such a thing as action at a distance, non-locality, psychic experience, and consciousness effects.
Not human beings, not psychics.
It's kind of interesting.
And part of the reason for that is that human beings are We are potent receptors of psychic phenomena, spiritual phenomena, but we're not objective about the output.
We try to turn around and explain things, and we get all messed up.
All right, hold on.
We're at the top of the hour.
We'll be right back.
My guest is Bill Sweets.
A journey into prayer.
He came from somewhere back in a long ago.
He said, look at the fool goes.
She tried hard to recreate what had yet to be created Once in her life, she musters a smile for his nostalgic
tear Never coming near what he wanted to say
Only to realize, it never really was Don't you love her badly?
Don't you love her badly?
you Don't you need her badly?
Don't you love her ways?
Tell me what you say.
Don't you love her badly?
Wanna meet her daddy?
Don't you love her face?
Don't you love her as she's walking out the door?
Don't you love her ways?
Tell me what you say Don't you love her as she's walking out the door?
Don't you love her as she's walking out the door?
All your love, all your love, all your love, all your love All your love is gone, to sing a lonely song
Of a deep blue dream, seven horses seem to be on the line To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll free at 800-825-5033.
line is area code 775-727-1222. To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll-free
at 800-825-5033. From west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
And my guest, Bill Sweet.
callers may reach out by calling your in-country Sprint Access number, pressing option 5 and
dialing toll free 800-893-0903. From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this
is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
And my guest, Bill Sweet. Listen, it's about an hour late and a dollar short, but I did
get that photograph up of the RV with that antenna that now that you all can see it,
I suppose will be recognizable worldwide. But on my webcam, which is on the website
coastcoastam.com, you can view this.
Clothesline in motion.
This is an amazing antenna.
It is an amazing antenna, and I promised to put it up, so there you have it.
That's our RV with the antenna on it.
Bill Sweet is here, and we're discussing a very, very serious subject.
I did an interview for a lady the other day.
It was really interesting.
She'd been bugging me and bugging me to do this interview for months.
And so I did, and she peppered me with questions about, well, Do you believe in extras?
Do you believe in ETs?
I said, well, I don't know.
Well, no, I don't believe in them.
I think it's possible or even probable, but no, I don't believe in them.
She said, what?
I thought you did.
Well, she doesn't have much of a chance to listen to the program.
You know, she hears it from time to time, but she doesn't really listen to it.
And frankly, a lot of people have me pegged, which I don't mind.
Art Bell, the UFO guy, right?
And I have to believe in these things.
Well, no, I don't.
I believe in what I've seen.
I believe in what I can prove.
And I take probably almost nothing on faith.
I'm not good in the faith category.
I'm really not.
But what we're talking about tonight doesn't require faith.
I guess except in the execution of the act itself.
But in terms of believing that it's real, There is something to this, and it's not just cooked up baloney.
Yeah, you bet I believe.
I believe in the power of consciousness.
I believe, and definitely believe, in the power of mass consciousness, to the point that it scares me a little bit.
When people begin to find out about it, governments begin to find out about it, mountains will move.
Believe me.
So, this is one of those things that I don't have to take on faith.
The work has been done by many doctors.
In this case, the Klingbeils.
Very interesting.
In fact, they ended up committing suicide.
And in a moment, we're definitely going to ask Bill about that.
We'll be right back.
So this young lady interviewed me and was so shocked by my lack of faith in almost anything
and just couldn't believe it.
Absolutely couldn't believe it.
And I ended up telling her, look, I'm not sure I could even do this show properly if I had some great unshakable faith in whatever.
I think it would bias me in so many ways that it would affect the way I approach each, you know, each one of my guests.
A faith, a belief that strong, an unshakable, rock-solid faith is going to absolutely bias you in the way you approach guests who have very unconventional ideas.
So, in a way, it perhaps aids me in doing this kind of material.
Bill, welcome back.
Alright, yeah.
Ended up committing suicide, right?
They did.
I was the last one to speak to them.
You were the last one to speak to them?
As far as I know.
As far as you know.
There might be other information that comes out that I don't know.
Usually the police want to talk to people like you.
You were the last one to see them alive.
Well, that's for sure.
Nobody didn't know what happened.
At first, my family and some friends thought it was murder at first.
My family were discussing it with the police.
Protect me as a spokesman for Spenderoff and stuff like that.
Alright, well let's delve into that a little bit.
Please thought it was murder at first.
Why would they think that?
What was the manner of death?
Shotgun.
Oh my god.
And they didn't believe in guns.
And it was very bizarre.
And we were close to having a breakthrough scientifically on our research.
Really?
Yeah.
But, fortunately, we have a lot of... everything's written down, but it was unbelievable.
I don't know why I was on the phone, but everything was... All right, so what, you're saying that they recorded what they were going to do and why they were going to do it?
Is that what you're saying?
Well, yes, that's true, too.
Yeah, I was going to say that the research was ready to have a breakthrough, and we have that recorded, but also there is some evidence from suicide notes They did this, but it doesn't make any sense.
It's a peculiar thing.
You could look at it.
If I get into an area too personal, you let me know.
Was it a mutual suicide pact?
It was.
I've never heard of anything like it before.
Have you?
I've heard of mutual suicide pacts.
Of a father and son?
Well, maybe not of a father and son.
Maybe not.
I've heard of pacts before.
Usually lovers.
Right.
Maybe.
That sort of thing.
Maybe.
Strange.
I don't know.
It seems to me that the hate mail we were getting, people working against us, all these things seemed to be coming to a head.
But at the same time, you know, everything happens at once.
We were about ready to have a breakthrough.
And so it seems to me that it didn't fit.
What kind of breakthrough were you on the verge of?
The breakthrough we were on the verge of was getting finally published in some scientific journals and being invited to some more serious, we were invited to conferences before we were getting invited to more serious conferences and things and also things were just coming along where it looked like some other, not grant money necessarily, but some other groups were going to work on trying to replicate our experiments, things like that.
Okay, so the breakthrough you're talking about is a realization by the mainstream, or at least some part of the mainstream scientific community, that you had something valid, something scientific, for into the mainstream, and you're about to get published as well.
Alright, alright then.
Look, again, stop me if you don't want to tell, but it's almost integral, it seems to me, to the story to understand And apparently it was explained in suicide notes that were left why the act was done.
Yes, I have a whole chapter with all the details and I got everybody to write something down.
Well, please forget the chapter.
You're on the air.
I want to know why.
Tell me the story.
Of how it happened?
No, of why it happened.
I want to understand what thinking drove these men, father and son, to commit suicide that way.
What were their reasons?
Well ok, I'll do my best.
In the suicide note to me, they wrote to me, they said that they were under a lot of pressure and they were being attacked for a lot of pressure and that's about all they said.
That's not sufficient.
It isn't sufficient.
I don't have a sufficient answer.
We're doing some mystery.
This whole thing is a mystery to us.
Psychologists would say all you need to have for a suicide is people who are depressed.
Well, okay, so maybe they had a little depression.
But I don't think that that answers it because these things just don't fit.
Now, wait a minute.
You were the president, Spindrift, right?
That's correct.
And so you were intimately involved with these men.
When the police asked you if they were depressed, what did you say?
I didn't think they were.
No.
They were looking forward to the breakthroughs you talked about?
As far as I knew they were.
As far as I knew.
Unless there were two stories going on.
Yes.
Was there any secret revelation in their suicide notes about something horrible that had happened or they had discovered?
I will say that there is a lot of information that hasn't been put together, and that I have documented information.
In fact, I even invite people to try to figure out the details for exactly what happened.
It's still a mystery, and I think that there are many scenarios that could be involved here.
Alright, here's something I want to know.
Did the police conclude that the father shot the son, and then himself, or the other way around?
My understanding is they think they shot themselves.
I mean, they shot themselves.
There was one gun or two?
Two.
Wow.
And the point involved is that they didn't want to get the, well, they didn't want to get the store where they bought the guns in trouble, so they went in a completely different direction out of the county.
It's very strange why they would go to such extremes.
There's a whole list of things.
One is that there might have been a threat against Spindrift and that there is the perceived thing that a person is a quack if he pays for people.
But this was nothing new.
I mean, there was this intense, perhaps, hatred of what Spindrift was doing.
A lot of things went wrong.
For instance, we were going to be on a TV show, and they filmed it, and it was going to be great, and at the last minute they called and said we were going to be kicked out because what we were doing was too controversial, and we asked them who stopped it.
And they said, well, we can't tell you who stopped it.
It was just a business decision.
Just all kinds of things happened.
They were very strange.
Okay, but this kind of work is going to be plagued by that kind of thing.
You know, you've got a good point there.
Anybody involved in this kind of work is going to have something like this trailing behind them.
There's going to be casualties that will be thrown along the road.
You're right about that.
Fine, I'm willing to go along with that, but for that to have suspicion that that's what drove these men to put shotguns and blow their heads off, it doesn't fit.
It doesn't fit.
No, no, no.
I don't have the answer for you, Art.
The thing is, it's still a mystery, because we're trying to figure out how that could happen.
There are a lot of people who work for Spindrift that were stranded out there in Salem, Oregon, because I was still back here in Illinois.
That's where it was.
That's where it was.
They originated here in the Chicago area, and when it got too hot, the subject area, Bruce Klainbile lost his church job.
He was a practitioner.
He lost his job over these experiments.
When that happened, his income went down, and we wanted him to stay here because everybody was going to help him stay here, but they decided to move to a state where it was less expensive to live because all of a sudden everybody wouldn't go to Bruce Klainbile for help.
Because he was perceived as a strange person for believing that you could scientifically test prayer.
And so they decided, Bruce and John decided, to move to Salem, Oregon, which at the time was a very reasonable place to live, and a beautiful place.
It's very expensive now, but they moved out there, and several or less people went with them out there.
That's where the laboratory was from then on.
To answer your question, it's still a mystery.
This is the Twin Peaks aspect of the Spindroff story.
I'm sure there's going to be more information because there's different interpretations of what happened.
I think you would agree with me that you can look at a situation and you can just take it for what it is, suicide, or you can say this doesn't fit and there's more to it.
Well, with what I've heard, Bill, it doesn't fit.
Now, again, you worked with these men very closely.
Yes.
What were their respective ages?
Do you know the father and son, or roughly?
Sixty-five and thirty-five.
Sixty-five and thirty-five.
They were doing these extended experiments in prayer and its effect on different things, living things, flowers.
Do you know And the reason I thought this was important to do was that they knew that there was going to be all this future interest in consciousness.
They could just see it coming with the advancement of the computer, and the advancement of quantum physics, and people actually starting to look into these things underneath, which didn't really happen underneath the surface.
So they wanted to be in there so that the spiritual point of view could be in there, too.
Bruce Glimmel had a great phrase.
He said that, you know, If you're going to be in a circular firing squad, it's better to fire first.
They wanted to get right out front there in their 1969 and 70s and start looking into these things.
I would say this, they were innocent about this.
They thought there would be this great receptivity in what they were doing.
I never did.
I thought they were naive.
I think that I was brought up in a neighborhood where there was a lot of debating and a lot of skepticism.
I always knew that these things would backfire because I'd been involved in other things that backfired.
And I think they were hurt every time something went wrong, whereas someone like myself, I just sort of laughed at it because I thought this was human behavior again.
Bill, is there any possibility that they were into perhaps a depth of some experiment that you were not aware of at the time they committed suicide?
My only answer to that is they were deeper in the experiment than the rest of us and understood them better than us.
Were they documenting what they were doing?
Absolutely.
They have published a 400-page document called the Spindroff Papers.
It almost sounds like the Spindroff Files.
It's their scientific research, the mathematics And it goes into... It's hard to read.
It's hard to read, Doctor.
Towards the end of this document, was there anything indicating they were into something that you had not previously known about?
I'm trying to connect something to these suicides.
So were they into some deep experiment at the end?
They were wrapping up their experiments at this time and were going to go on a vacation.
So, it doesn't lead anywhere, does it, Art?
Well, it leads all in the wrong direction.
Now you're saying they were going to go on a vacation.
That's anticipating something good, not a time when you put a shotgun in your mouth.
Yeah, they were going to.
That's right.
And they had ordered, and the funny thing was, after the suicides, a chair and a bed, which may be both, but they had ordered a new chair for their computer desk, and it came after the suicides.
I've got another one for you then.
In my trying to understand this bill, were they unstable in regular, everyday life?
but but here's the answer the question it doesn't make sense
all right i've got another one for you then but in my trying to understand this bill uh... or were they
unstable in in uh...
regular everyday life did you see instability in their personalities that might
suggest an action like suicide
yet having a uh... uh... they were introverts and they have
odd uh...
And I'll...
Does that make a person unstable?
I don't know.
It depends on how odd their beliefs are, I guess.
I think we all do.
I think in our group we have very unconventional ideas about things.
Maybe this would identify with some of the people you've interviewed.
You'd understand that sometimes when you're Out there in a new area, or hanging on a flagpole and blowing in the wind, you're all alone, you don't have that many people you can talk to, and it's hard to find references.
When things are up in the air, you're kind of hanging out there, and nobody wants to have anything to do with you.
Alright.
And that sort of makes you maybe a little unstable psychologically.
Alright, maybe.
So, these two men moved from the Chicago area to Oregon, and you said that some others followed.
That sort of makes it sound a little bit like it might be cultish.
is that an unfair were to use in this case or are there changes of
truth to that isn't everything subjective in a male matter interpretation
yes i have a little bit of european
I would say that they had some people that wanted to run the spindrift office and participate in experiments and help with the publicity.
I think anything can be interpreted any way.
I don't see it that way, but people have seen it that way.
Because it's just like the brain scan research that's going on today.
It shows that spirituality may be an illusion in the brain, or spirituality actually may be something that's beneficial to mankind and there's a reason for it.
If you're the skeptic, you take the first view.
If you're the believer, you take the second view.
So things can be viewed different ways.
I would say that it would have been nice If we probably had some more normal experiences rather than all these abnormal and paranormal things happening all the time.
So it probably seems to be this idea of the trickster that you hear about in paranormal.
You get involved in things and things come along to trick you up.
I wouldn't be surprised that just being involved in this very area of the edge of consciousness, cutting edge research into parapsychology, it kind of drives you a little nutty.
And I can see also, Bill, how this could be almost considered a new religion.
A new religion.
And that goes along with the word cult.
In other words, something of this apparent parapsychological power, and it's tremendous alright, it could be considered to be a new religion by some.
People are upset that people got together in a laboratory and tried to test people praying on plants.
I think it's kind of funny.
They think it's a religion.
Well, they do think it's a religion.
They do.
And they believe that religion belongs in a church, just like the one they go to, not in a laboratory with little plants and stuff like that.
That's the argument.
That's perverting the whole thing they believe in.
You hit the nail on the head.
Hold it right there.
The nails shall rest for a moment.
And pay for more hammers to drive it in.
From the high desert, I'm Art Bell.
This is Coast to Coast AM.
you But the mother-child reunion is only a motion away.
the emotion away. Oh, I'm living on my mind. I can't fall the life on me. Remember a Saturday. I know they say let it
be. Just don't look out that way.
And the course of a lifetime runs over and over again.
Well, I would not give you false hope now on this strange and awful day.
But the mother of child me you will not To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
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To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll free at 800-825-5033.
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You've got to admit, this is an intriguing story.
Here are two men, the Klingbaos, father and son, deeply involved in very controversial work.
Work showing that prayer and intent on an object can cause an outcome, a physical, actual outcome.
This whole consciousness thing we're talking about, they were deeply involved in that and ended up putting shotguns in their mouths and blowing their brains out and I don't mean to dwell on that aspect of it, but you certainly have to wonder what it is that could cause men of such devotion to experimental science to either become so unstable or run into something that would cause them to do an action of that sort.
It's just not... I just cannot fathom it.
perhaps you can or perhaps easily perhaps there's something we do not know.
All right, the book is A Journey into Prayer and then it shows that wave and
that foam that Bill was telling us about the picture on the front of book and
and and then it's sort of sub title here is Pioneers of Prayer in the Laboratory
Agents of Science or Satan?
And I found that interesting, Bill, with a question mark there.
Agents of Science or Satan?
Now, That's how people perceive it, either one way or the other, or people ignore the whole thing.
Either we're doing research that's important, trying to bring ideas of healing research and science and religion together, or we're tampering with things that should never be tampered with.
And your take on it?
Well, I'm all for it.
I've always been kind of an open-minded person.
I've been very interested.
More so than now, but as a child I had a lot of psychic and spiritual experiences, and every time I would try to explain to somebody, they would give me that old evil eye, or your friends were supportive.
But I was brought up in a debating atmosphere, and I realized that these things need to be debated out.
These things need to be really flushed out.
The concept of Satan, Bill, it is an interesting subject all of its own, that is, of good and And of a representative of evil in the form of Satan.
Any possibility that's real?
Well, I think within the context of our world, we know evil is a real power.
In men's hearts, yes?
Yes, in men's hearts, yeah.
As a manifestation, as a persona, I suppose if enough people conjure up something like that, just like today, people have They're looking for a designer God.
They want a God that worships them rather than they worship God.
If they want a designer God, they might as well have a designer Satan.
I think if people get together and have a collective consciousness and get an idea of what they want as an evil being, I think it would be something that would be an archetype of collective consciousness put together by people.
Satan would be.
It would be bad enough.
They would do a lot of damage.
For instance, Dean Radin in his book, The Conscious Universe, brings out that he thinks that evil going around the world, even terrorism, Well, I'm with you all the way.
All the way.
butterfly effect will use your field you mentioned the field earlier he feels
that when there's anger and stuff going over on one side of the earth that it
actually comes over this side of the earth and all of a sudden people are
angry and upset about things and it's actually because of what's going on over
there and he thinks there's a connection between the people aren't even sure why
they're angry well I'm with you all the way all the way I think that's entirely
possible there's a resonance well the one line about some Yes.
This is what will need to be coming, because the more we learn about thought, the more we learn about thought, the more we learn about thought, the more we learn about thought, the more we learn about thought, the more we learn about thought, the more we learn about thought, the more we learn about thought, the more we learn about thought, the more we learn about thought, the more we learn about thought, the more we learn about thought, the more we learn about thought, the more we learn about thought, the more we learn about thought, the more we learn about thought, the more we learn about thought, the more we learn about thought, the more we learn about thought, the more we learn about thought, the more we learn about thought, the more we learn about thought, the more we learn about thought, the more we learn about thought, the more we learn about thought, the more we learn about thought, the more we learn about Spendthrift has taken some of these things that go on in the unconscious mind and made them into non-local issues, but it shows how our unconscious thinking shapes everything, and that virtually we do almost no original thinking.
We're run by our unconscious mind and the things that are put into it.
It's unbelievable.
Almost no original thinking, huh?
Almost no original thinking.
Hardly none.
Were mouthpieces for the collective?
We're mouthpieces for the collective and what we find that, in this case, we find that how the brain is formed and everything and how it dictates things to us and so it's very hard to get by the hardware.
Like in the movie The Matrix, you think this is all very real and everything but how do you break through that to find the real thing?
It's very hard because the very thing you're using to think this through with is the brain and that's what your hindrance is.
Yes.
So where do you go?
That's a good question.
How many people... I assume there still is a spindrift, right?
There still is a spindrift, but it isn't as... Our experiments aren't as controlled as they were, and aren't as well controlled.
We're interested in having other people continue with the ideas and landmarks we put down in research, and that's worked out pretty well.
We sort of did the groundbreaking work and took the flack, and we were amateurs out there.
I'd say there was 12 people working full-time.
It's been driven since the 80's and into the early 90's.
The thing was that we were encouraging the more professional scientists to take up this work and they finally have.
We feel a success there and we feel that people call us for advice on different things.
But Bruce and John Klingbeil were essentially the driving force behind the organization during the period when the experiments were well controlled?
They were the founders and the driving force behind Spindroof.
Yes, that's right.
And I think this problem they ran into, and you're talking about the suicides and everything, I think what bothers people, kind of like the movies that we all saw as kids, the Frankenstein movies, you know, the townsfolks would go up to the castle and burn it down because they didn't understand the experiments that Dr. Frankenstein was doing.
Well, they're actually wrong.
I mean, it's a hard thing to understand, but these experiments bother people.
People are bothered by science when it comes to, and religious people especially.
Actually, there's things that are going to happen that are kind of Frankensteinish today that are actually necessary to do, and it just bothers people, and they go kind of berserk.
I mean, like the stem cell research is so necessary, and yet, you know, religion gets in there and comes up with all kinds of things to stop it.
It's going to go on anyway, but it's almost like the present-day thing with Dr. Frankenstein trying to burn down his place.
All right, well, how conclusive were the experiments of the Klingons?
Our research was preliminary research that suggested that phenomena existed as a result of these experiments.
The only way you could say something was conclusive is if you can have a whole bunch of laboratories establish your experiments.
So we were on our way to do that.
Statistically.
I would say nobody has the smoking gun yet.
Statistically conclusive.
I would say from our point of view it was.
Yes.
And I think that we could establish through enough experiments and people doing the experiments that something was happening between the healer and healer, between the healing and what's going on.
And there is an experiment that does back up what we are talking about.
I was wondering if you were aware of this experiment that has been done enough times by scientists to show that there's something there.
Are you aware of this thing where you have people in a Faraday cage talking to each other?
Are you aware of that experiment?
I have heard of the use of... Faraday cages, of course, are physical metal cages that block any possibility of radio frequency coming in or going out.
They're sort of little safe zones from any possibility of communication by RF energy.
Yes.
Well, this experiment has been done by people, and here's the experiment.
You would put a man in one Faraday cage and another man in another Faraday cage, They would hook brain scans up to these people's heads and they would let these guys get into some intense conversation on something they were interested in, whatever it was, sports or ham radio or some hobby or something to get into this intense conversation.
After 20 minutes, they would start recording what these guys were up to and what happened was, and these guys didn't know what was in the cage, one guy in one cage He had a light in there that was blinking faster than he could see it.
His unconscious mind could see it, but it was blinking so fast that the conscious mind didn't see this light blinking.
And this brain scan showed a certain part of the brain that would light up, where this light was being picked up by the retina and registered by the unconscious mind.
But the guy consciously couldn't see it, okay?
What is interesting is, the guy in the other cage didn't have this light on, but the brain scan Show that his brain lit up in the same area.
There was a transference, a connection.
So one thing we infer from this is that the communication that's taking place, and it is communication, has to be communication.
It's information.
Is being passed at a frequency Or in a way that we can't begin to understand nor measure, but it's true nevertheless, right?
Well put.
I think maybe you touched on a way to explain all this.
I think the evidence is building that these things exist, but we can't get a handle on it the way science always wants to get a handle on it.
But it's pretty evident that something is going on beyond us.
It's this quantum thing, I think, where two objects at different locales, doesn't matter how far apart they are, experience the same cellular change.
It's really weird, and nobody knows How it happens.
Does it have spin drift?
Super liminal.
They think that the idea of the thought and prayer and actions of non-locality are faster than the speed of light.
life.
All these limitations are going to be broken down in science, and you're going to have people that are going to go, oh no, no, I don't want to go any further into this.
Let's stop there.
Let's not look at anything anymore.
It's getting too scary.
And I can understand that none of us like a whole lot of change.
None of us like change.
Well, you know, we have to.
have to how and i mean despite the fact that they apparently left some brief
final words bill yet but a lot of people on this computer next to me over able to
fast last me messages saying it look how sure are you they were not murdered
i'm not i'm not sure if i mean everybody doesn't i mean house house
houses How do we know?
And that could mean that... How were they murdered?
Maybe it wouldn't be murder in the sense that you would think of it.
Things could be manipulated.
You know, maybe some people have the theory that maybe somebody forced them to shoot themselves or something like that or had something on them or something.
You know, it's just... It's bizarre and it was uncharacteristic.
Bill?
Yes?
Because of the nature of their experiments, it's worth asking.
Haven't you ever wondered whether they might not have opened a door they did not intend to open?
There are a number of people who think that.
Yes.
I'm one of them wondering about it.
I keep reaching out for... One of my good friends who is both into religion and parapsychology, he thinks through all this, their sensitivity to phenomena, spiritual and their experiences and everything, Yes.
I've got to tell you, I don't think I said it.
They were very loving people and very spiritual people and very, very perceptive and incredibly aware of things.
These type of people sort of saw things happening before they would happen.
My friend thought that maybe they saw something that scared them.
It was kind of like remote viewing or something.
They saw something that just kind of scared them.
Well, they're working in the non-local type areas.
But that's a speculation, but yes, people have thought that, even one of my good friends thought that.
And whatever it was, had to have affected them equally drastically.
Yes.
I mean, the whole thing is just so incredibly bizarre.
Were there any other Real-world reasons why they might have committed suicide.
Was the IRS on their backs?
Were the police closing in for some reason?
Was there anything of that kind?
There was a speculation I started to mention earlier, and it was just a speculation.
I know that there was some talk, and I wasn't in on it.
It's something that I still want to know about.
Again, when you're a healer and you're praying for people, sometimes that is seen as quackery.
It could be that somebody called them for help when all other medical measures were gone and they took up the case.
Who knows what happened to the person, but maybe somebody turned that into some potential lawsuit or something because I know there was something about talking to lawyers about something and I never got what it was.
And to mix another thing, they're trying to connect dots.
Bruce Klainbell did tell me sometime before the suicides that what could really shut down Spindroff would be some lawsuit that would just tie up the finances and all the things for years and years and nothing would ever get done.
So there might be that there was something that came along having to do with somebody filing a lawsuit.
That would have caused trouble for them.
It's been driven a lot of people.
And, you know, there's just just just one thing, but then there's a lot of strange things like that.
We put together and we had a lot of people give us input.
There were an awful lot of people coming over to see them.
Scientific people, television crews, radio interview people and the different researchers.
Fortunately, A lot of these people supplied me with information.
They had been in contact with them at that time, and I put it all together.
It seemed to me that just like that book you read in high school, I think it's a tale of two cities.
It starts with these are the best of times and these are the worst of times.
I think that's sort of what may have happened.
It was the best of times and the worst of times.
As things got better and things were starting to open up for them, the worst things were coming in and rushing in.
Alright, the Spindrift website is still up.
Is it up as it was when these two men committed suicide, roughly?
Yes, and the person can find this website by searching Spindrift Research, those two words.
That's S-P-I-N-D-R-I-F-T, right?
That's correct.
And you'd put in what, Spindrift Research?
Two words, uh-huh, and it'll go right to our website.
And so maybe some of the audience can discern for themselves what might have You brought these men to this point.
Is anything about their death included up there?
No.
Only in the book.
What made you decide to write this, Bill?
Well, I've been talking at conferences and invited to do different things, and everybody I see giving a talk has a book.
I said, you know, I think my book has some substance to it.
There's a story here.
I think I should tell the story.
A lot of people don't know about Spendthrift and the Clean Biles and I thought they would
tell us about it because we have been doing this grassroots research for years and helping
other people.
The only people who really knew about us were the other people in the scientific research
community doing this kind of research in the religion, science, consciousness area of trying
to do research.
The only other people who knew about us were relatives and friends who hated what we were
doing and groups that hated what we were doing.
They knew about us, too.
All right.
Let me try this question, Bill.
Since you were president of the organization, you would have really been under many of the very same pressures that the Klingbeils were.
Oh, yes.
And so was there anything that happened to you, Bill, that gave you thoughts of You know, doing yourself in, or gave you reason to even consider such things?
I think I've always had this keen sense of humor, and I think it helped me to see how ridiculous all this was, even though some things were very evil and very serious.
I mean, you know, we laughed.
John Klainbaum and I always laughed because it seemed like we always had something to offend somebody.
It's a funny thing, but it's just the way of the nature of what we were doing.
I think that I was able to mentally blow it off that way, but I will say that it was upsetting too, but I didn't get to that point because I knew how ridiculous it was.
Absurd.
And I know you've been through it.
You just can't believe the wild reactions people have had to some of the things.
Well, I actually can, Bill.
I don't go a week without offending masses of people.
So I've become accustomed to it, Bill.
Right.
So you don't let it... You just can't let it get to you in this kind of work.
You have to, you know... What's the right way to phrase it?
You have to go for the gusto.
on any given subject like this, or you're not doing your job.
But when you do your job properly, you're going to offend a certain group of people, no matter what the discussion is.
I guarantee you, already tonight, we have radically disturbed some group of people out there.
Oh, no kidding.
Yeah, oh, no kidding.
But none of that ever drove you to any action close to what happened at the Clean Biles, right?
That is correct.
All right.
When we get back, I want to let the audience ask you some questions about this whole thing.
And that'll give the audience an opportunity to cherry-pick any of what we've been talking about, the experiments themselves, what might have driven these two men to commit such an odd ending for themselves.
My God.
What an incredible story.
A journey into prayer.
Pioneers of prayer in the laboratory, agents of science, or Satan?
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Man, I'll tell you, this is one weird story.
Bill Sweet is my guest, a journey into prayer.
Pioneers of prayer and laboratory.
Agents of Science or Satan?
That's quite a mouthful, isn't it?
Remember Hale-Bopp?
Remember those people who committed suicide?
Thought they were going to... that they'd graduated.
That's what they said in their wording.
They'd graduated from Earth.
And they were going to whatever that was.
And you have to wonder if perhaps The Klingbeils, in some further stage of their work than Bill Sweet was aware of, may have come to some understanding or they may have run into something or opened some door that caused them to do what they did, but near as I can tell from what I've heard,
Threatened lawsuits non-withstanding.
There really was no reason that a reasonable person would, you know, take a shotgun, father and son, put it in their mouths and blow their brains out.
There's just not enough there to, you know, to make A add up to B. There just isn't.
The whole story is strange.
At any rate, it's your turn, your chance to ask questions of Bill Sweet, who has He is still part president of this organization and has written this book about the power of consciousness, in effect.
We'll be right back.
The foreword to this book was written by Larry Dorsey, M.D.
And even the foreword itself is absolutely fascinating.
I mean, here's a physician who didn't believe any of this.
Thought it was all bunk.
But began investigating, and by the time it was over, he was praying for his own patients.
His own patients.
You know, coronary patients, that sort of thing.
And absolutely knew that it worked.
Remarkable book.
Remarkable story.
Very strange story, Bill.
It's going to be interesting to see what the audience has to say about this.
So that's where we are in the show.
We let the audience in.
You ready?
Ready.
Alright, let's see.
First time caller on the line.
You're on the air with Bill Sweet.
Good morning.
Hello.
Is it me?
Yeah, it's you.
Okay.
I wanted to say that American Indians already know all about this.
We've known this for years about the power of prayer.
We don't pray for ourselves.
We pray for everyone but ourselves.
The only thing I wanted to let you know is to stay on course.
Don't let anybody throw you off.
It's because they're afraid.
They're afraid you're going to find out the truth.
Well, if you had to make a guess about what happened to the Klingbeils, I mean, that's so awful and dramatic that what would you guess?
I don't even have to guess.
I could tell you.
Please do.
And they probably were murdered.
You think they were murdered?
Yes.
That a scientific realization, you know, being published and suddenly having this out in the public was too much?
Yeah, because people are afraid of a concept that is so different of what they believe.
I mean, for years we've been told a certain religious belief, that we came from a certain way and that things were a certain way.
And when our mind is expanding and we're listening to other ways, people have a fear.
It's all fear.
People are afraid of Believing something totally different.
Yeah, I know you're right.
It's uncomfortable.
You're right.
So uncomfortable, you believe, ma'am, that somebody would have... So threatening to somebody's belief system that they would have killed these men.
Yes, it happens all the time.
It happens.
I mean, look at with abortion clinics.
You know, somebody doesn't believe like them, they shoot people at abortion clinics.
It happens.
The crusades with the American Indians, the American Indians weren't allowed to practice their spiritual belief.
That's right.
They do.
Fundamentalism, and it's a very good point, how this fundamentalistic thought wants to send things backwards in time rather than forwards.
And I mean, we do have it here in our country with like the example of the religious people who blow up abortion clinics.
We're seeing it all over the world now.
It's unbelievable.
Well, I'm an Apache, and I'm from Lakota, Dakota.
Oral tradition and we talk about prayer all the time and how powerful prayer is.
Yep.
And prayer doesn't necessarily, you know when you're praying, you're praying for someone to get well, it doesn't necessarily mean they're going to get well.
Healing is a whole different aspect.
When you heal, it doesn't mean you get well with cancer or anything.
You heal and healing means that you have the capacity to go through whatever it is you're going through.
Okay, but prayer or not, you may go through it.
Do you agree with that assessment, Bill?
You go through with the prayer?
No, no, no.
She said that, for example, you have cancer, you pray for it, or you have somebody pray for it.
It doesn't mean you necessarily get better.
She said the intent of the prayer is to prepare yourself to go through what you're about to endure anyway.
Well, that might be one possibility.
The thing is that we don't want to anticipate what the prayer will do.
There could be many, many ways to answer a prayer.
I would say, yes, in that sense, there are many answers to prayer.
We don't want to outline, because we do not know the best outcome.
Only the prayer knows.
It's really non-directed.
I will be done.
Prayer knows what's best for the situation.
So I would say, I think I do agree with her.
I understand her ideas.
In other words, the point is, That is most normal for the situation.
We'll bring out the best result.
We do want to see healing, of course, but if everybody in the world had their prayers answered and everybody got healed, I mean, we'd have a population problem.
We'd have all kinds of other things happen, and there are some situations where it's interesting.
I remember this about the suicide thing.
I did have a talk years and years and years ago with Bruce Clainville about suicide, and he could think of one situation where you would commit suicide.
And that was?
If you were an agent for the United States government, a secret agent, CIA agent, and you had vital national security information, and you were caught, and they were going to pound it out of you, it would be better to kill yourself than to save the people from that being revealed.
If you knew something, maybe you can relate, maybe we can even tighten this, I don't know how, but anyway, the point is if you know something that would do more damage than good, it might Could they have stumbled into something in their research, Bill?
Could they have stumbled into something of that magnitude?
Well, let's put it this way, now that you bring it up.
I do.
We talked about it from time to time, yes.
We knew that there were good and bad consequences to this.
And it can drive you crazy.
In fact, the article that I mentioned from U.S.
News & World Report on this research of the brain, they would ask people, would you kill your child?
Of course, immediately the brain would go crazy.
No, no, no.
Then they gave him a scenario.
Well, what about this?
What if you were in Germany during World War II and the Germans were coming and you were Jewish people and the whole town was cuddled underneath a house in a basement and you had a child that was crying?
And you knew that the only way you couldn't be found by those soldiers was if you covered the child's mouth and smothered and had to kill it.
Because if you didn't kill that child, everybody would be killed.
Then would you kill your child?
And then the brain activity went crazy.
You had all these conflicts and everything.
It's incredible.
But the point was that there were situations where things have to be done for the greater good.
Okay.
That really does suggest the possibility that they ran into something.
Well, you gave me something to think about.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Bill Sweet.
Good morning.
Is it me?
Yes, you.
Hi.
I have a question and I also kind of have a theory on what happened with the suicide.
Alright, go ahead.
I'm a Reiki master, so I'm very familiar with energy healing and even long-distance healing.
Okay.
In the concept of Reiki, there's a concept that you don't I mean, you let the higher power, God, your oversoul, whatever you choose to call it, the greater consciousness of the universe, direct the healing where it will do the most good for the most number of people.
In other words, given the cancer analogy, if someone is dying of cancer, there might be spiritual lessons that the family members would have to learn.
And so, the death may happen anyway, but there may be healing that takes place in that family because of the healing energy that is sent by a Reiki Master.
Now, my question is, how much research has been drifted into non-goal oriented prayer?
What kind of findings do they have on how it ultimately comes out for the higher good, for all the people concerned?
One of the two major contributions to Spindriff, we feel, has been this distinction, scientifically, that it's made between goal-directed prayer and non-goal-directed prayer.
Goal-directed prayer is asking prayer, like Jesus says, asking you shall receive.
The trouble is, most of the time, human beings ask for the wrong thing.
We're able to show this.
People ask for what they want.
What they want isn't necessarily what they need.
Non-goal directed prayer is this I will be done prayer, where you get your ego out of the way, and we feel that that was something new that we were offering to research.
I mean, people have always known about goals.
You know, I want a car, I want a new job, and things like that.
People have prayed like that for years.
But the idea of not having a goal, and just letting the power of flow, the divine, go through you and produce a result, and you're just the observer, and you watch what your prayers are doing, and you don't know what's going to happen until you observe it.
That's something fundamentally new, at least scientifically.
Are you familiar, Bill, with Nichiren Shoshu Sokegakai?
I'm afraid I don't know what you're saying.
It's a new, new-agey kind of Buddhist-oriented religion in Japan.
A very, very, very strong religion, Bill, with sort of Fundamentalist, rabid devotees, and they chant.
And the purpose of this chant, many times, can be things like, I need a new refrigerator.
I need to be promoted at work.
I need some real world thing.
You're getting into something very important here.
Yes, and people will sit and chant, Nam-myoho-renge-kyo, Nam-myoho-renge-kyo, Nam-myoho-renge-kyo, and in the effort to Make this happen, and they claim, they claim Bill, that it does happen.
It does happen.
There's no way around it.
So we hope that there's going to be some counterbalance to this kind of prayer, because if the whole world's going to be glorying, and remember that movie, Bruce, where he played God and he had everybody win the lottery once, and then it's bringing chaos?
Yes.
I mean, you have everybody doing this, the world was really going to go nuts if everybody gets, everybody wants that car, everybody wants that job.
In order to get that job, you've got to kill the boss, because I've got to get into his place, and you've got to get into the place of the next guy, so you've got to kill the boss to get into that place.
The world's going to go into chaos.
So, if we understand, on the other side, some of the spirituality things, we'll really get into the better flow.
I might tell you something very interesting.
We call gold-directed prayer, particle prayer, kind of like from the quantum physics thing.
And we call non-gold-directed prayer, wave prayer.
Particle prayer, gold-directed prayer.
It deals with looking at these particles, these material things you want.
I want this, I want that.
The wave prayer, the non-goal-directed prayer, is just sitting back and relaxing, and let the thing flow, and see where it goes, and God's will be done.
Sounds fluffy and nice, but is there really, honestly, Bill, any differentiation between the power of the two?
Well, we think that we can show it in our experiments.
We think this is what Spindroff has been able to do, experimentally show the difference between these two effects.
Okay.
Two effects that we've measured.
We measured a goal effect and a non-goal effect, and they produce different patterns.
Got it.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Bill Sweet.
Good morning.
Hi.
What do you think of this?
This is my theory.
I think that maybe the missing chalice that they all think is the golden, what do you call it, grail, is actually the belief or the knowledge that the people All put together are stronger than anything else that they could possibly do.
You know, I think they're afraid.
That's why they make a psychic book look like kooks, you know, and they do everything the opposite of the way it is.
Yes!
it did uh... there's been a little bit like what everybody at
twelve o'clock in the night i declare this war is over
well it happened you know
Let's see what happens.
If that was the real intention, it would be interesting to see.
There's one of Shakespeare's plays, I think it's Othello, about the women who withhold marital relations with their men, and that's not the worst.
You can imagine what enough people doing with nothing together could do.
I think it's just praying for the whole world to get along, or just end this war.
Why are we there on a false pretense?
And now we're still killing people.
For what?
For the false pretense?
Well, you see how complicated it became instantly?
Now it's become very complicated.
It's not a simple thing at all.
Yeah, that's true.
So, it's a very difficult thing.
And again, I would say that the way to pray about the present war situation, as long as it came up, is to be open, end it about it, and let's see where it's going to go.
Because really, nobody knows where it's going to go.
So we might as well pray that way and go with the flow.
And if we've made mistakes, we'll correct them.
There's a way to correct them.
We don't know how, but it'll come about.
Or the world will get even somehow.
Yes.
That's right.
You just brought up an interesting point.
You're on the air with Bill Sweet.
Hello.
Yes.
Hello.
Hi.
Hi.
I'm from the Central Coast.
My name's Joe.
I wanted to ask Bill.
In your heart is your definition of prayer, and do you pray for knowledge, or do you pray for wisdom?
Alright, well that's very good.
I mean, what is the definition of prayer?
What is it?
Bill?
Okay, well, you want a theological definition?
I mean, I am a Christian scientist and a Christian, and the thing is that I am looking for prayer that is a blessing to whatever I'm praying about.
And I would say what I understand that prayer does, the way I would define it, this is the
way we define it at Spindrift, is that prayer brings more order and harmony to a situation.
And so you pray and you sit back as a witness and observe and wait for that to happen.
And so that's the way I would pray.
And if I need wisdom or knowledge, I'll pray.
I mean, that would be an answer to it, too.
I mean, it's a good idea.
Pray for wisdom and knowledge.
We all sure need it.
Yeah, great.
Sounds great.
But if you're an Islamic terrorist, then the collapse of the World Trade Towers and the plane that crashed into the Pentagon, to them, that's bringing more order to their world.
It's bringing peace, even, from their point of view, to their world.
Well, it shows you how everyone lives in their own mind, doesn't it?
The thing is, is that I think that empirically, I think we could say that in the long run they wouldn't bring more, but what you're giving there is the power of goal-directed prayer.
These guys pray goal-directedly, and it's a very powerful prayer, just like mass prayer was a mass prayer, just like it was registered in the egg experiments that they were going to crash.
Something has to counter that.
Millions of people praying the way they're praying.
The people who are praying holy blessing prayers won't have a chance.
It makes one seem every bit as powerful as the other or it makes it seem just a undirected until directed power and available for everybody for whatever goal or motive you might have in mind whether it be good or bad subjectively.
Whatever person learns about the research that we're doing and other people are doing, they can take the research and according to how they're put together and their moral makeup, they're going to use it for good or bad.
That's the danger of it.
Hi, you're on the air with Bill Sweet.
Good morning.
Good morning.
I just have a quick theory on what I think happened.
Go ahead.
I think our two gentlemen here that had this incident were more than likely trespassing in a realm of consciousness.
And I think it's a definite possibility.
That their consciousness were turned against them.
They were trespassing in a realm of consciousness?
That's right.
When the Europeans came over to America, there was resistance.
And I think that their work brought them to a point where their presence, their conscious presence, was noticed by some kind of entity and, more than likely, wasn't welcomed.
Bill?
Sounds fine to me.
I mean, I'm paranoid anyway, so that would fit in with me.
I believe that when you get involved in things that are very creative and very new and very innovative, you find this wall of resistance that comes up against you.
And something like this that could affect all humanity discovers something else.
That may be too much for a person to take, and it could actually have detrimental effects.
I think it's a possibility.
I don't rule it out.
This is really odd and chilling stuff, and I guess it's been probably haunting you this way since it occurred, hasn't it?
Yes, and I'll give you some of the quotes that people told me that I... Hold on to those, and we'll come right back.
From the high desert, good morning, I'm Mark Bell.
Fall in love was the last thing I had on my mind Holding you was a warmth that I thought I could never find
Bye.
Just tryin' to decide.
I'm just trying to decide I'll stay by your side
I know I'm not right I just can't find the answer to the question
that keeps running through my mind Baby, it's only time
I need some time to wait Falling in love could be your mistake
Baby, it's only time Don't look now
Don't look in the mirror It's too easy
To give up and wait To try and understand
www.LRCgenerator.com Listen to the wind blow down, down tonight
Run in the shadows, damn your love, damn your lies Make the silence, damn the dark, damn the light
And if you don't love me now, you'll never love me again I can still feel the same, never take the chance
And if you don't love me now, you'll never love me again I can still feel the same, never take the chance
Wanna take a ride?
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From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
It's a strange and cautionary tale that Bill Sweet is telling.
A tale of the Klingbiles, who experimented extensively with prayer, consciousness, directed thought,
and ended up committing suicide in a bizarre and puzzling way.
To be continued...
I'd get a plug-in for the buck bill you Your book, A Journey into Prayer, is available, I assume, on Amazon.com.
Yeah.
All the usuals, then, huh?
All the usuals, uh-huh.
Really well, indeed, worth the read.
I mean, you say there's a whole chapter on their suicides and so forth in here, right?
There's a whole spindle story, and they have lame experiments.
You mentioned agents of science or Satan earlier.
Well, I have a whole chapter that is actually titled that, and it's the documented incidents where people came after us.
I could have said more that I couldn't have documented, but those are all documented ones
that would help show what actually happened, how people reacted to us.
How incredibly upset they were by what you were doing.
Yeah, it's amazing.
Some people didn't even believe what we did could possibly work.
It's kind of interesting, isn't it?
Why would somebody be upset with us if they didn't think it worked?
I don't know, but I do wonder about this.
I mean, Chicago is a pretty urban, liberal kind of environment that you wouldn't think
would pay as much attention to this sort of thing as, oh, for example, let's say a smaller
town in Oregon, where, gosh, people might be much more fundamental about their beliefs.
Well, I think the people there didn't know too much about it, but it was the people who were around in bigger areas of the nation, but they actually had I didn't have too much trouble with the people in that area.
It was all the contacts every place else.
They tried to go there for peace of mind, too, but you can't get away with it.
You're talking about fields.
I guess wherever you go, you can't get away from this stuff.
If I had to summarize what the spindrift research did in one sentence, I would say it's this.
Each person has a degree of mental input into our world.
If that could be proven, that's the scary thing.
You can talk about it, but it could actually show that each person has a responsibility for his thoughts.
You get in and you collect those together.
It gets to be a scary thing, as we talked about earlier.
Well, you could sure lay awake nights wondering what these two men ran into, what they discovered, what they took to their very fast graves with them.
They were lightning rods for a lot of criticism, that's for sure.
Alright, first time caller on the line, you're on the air with Bill Sweet.
Good morning.
Hi, my name's Chaim.
I'm a religious Jew.
I wanted to ask you a question that many military strategists have not been able to answer.
Fire away.
The 1967 war that Israel faced against 22 Arab countries?
Yes, sir.
Is it possible that the praying of all those Jews together for one cause is the reason why Israel won that war?
Accomplish the seemingly impossible?
Correct.
Good question.
Part of the reason.
Yeah, Bill.
But they also had a general.
The Jewish army had a general that was in the Arab army and they didn't know he was there.
So he was supplying secrets back to Israel.
Perhaps.
Well, he helps those who help themselves, huh?
Yeah.
Nevertheless, it is a worthy question.
Oh, sure.
That particular issue aside, it seemed impossible and yet they did it.
And I wonder if that can be applied to equally amazing things that just seemed the odds were so far against it and yet a small but relatively determined group had their way.
It seems like you can't replicate these things perfectly every time.
You say you did this six times.
This is really remarkable to me.
Maybe as many as 11 actually.
You know, that is highly unusual.
I think when you Talk to other researchers and they would find that quite remarkable.
Maybe you need something like a radio broadcast that goes around the world to get something like that to work a lot.
Maybe you do.
Because what happens in research is that it seems that you're able to get these things to work a few times and then the resistance out there in consciousness, the defense mechanism of the mind, etc., get to work.
Don't let it happen again, because then it can be proven.
It's okay you can have this happen once or twice or something, but if you could actually prove there's a law operating here in consciousness, well, they don't want that.
Then the secret's out, the jig's up.
Believe me, Bill, I went over that threshold long before I got to 11.
I went way over that threshold, Bill.
I saw it working.
I... Consistently.
And that is what is remarkable about what you're saying.
I think that there has to be something that big, enough people working on it to actually push it over.
Because we find, and all parapsychologists will tell you this, that it's hard to replicate something after a certain point.
You get too many people thinking about it or interfering with it or whatever.
But maybe it all does tie together in the sense that mass consciousness may be the one thing we'll be able to show.
has a paranormal effect and we hope it also has some spiritual effects for good too.
It may be the one thing.
We get everybody thinking in a certain way, we hope in a good way,
then we can see things happen that are undeniable and consistently.
You've given me the idea that maybe more parapsychologists should be on the radio
broadcasting around the world, get everybody to cooperate with them.
Well look, even the people involved in the experimentation at Princeton
admitted to me and the world when they were on that, look,
we don't want any publicity, we don't want a lot of publicity about this. No thank you.
It will affect the efficacy of our experiment.
This is one of the other discoveries of Spindrift.
You've got to have a way so that people aren't interfering with it. The only way
around that is that when you do your experiments you don't tell people when you're
doing them.
You just have a few people involved and also you might pray.
Where it's not being defended.
For instance, we had somebody that was praying about starving children.
It wasn't doing any good to pray about starving children, but we had some people in Spindroof that were working with starving children, and instead of praying for that, because all the world thought was on these starving children, that wasn't doing any good, they prayed about the milk.
They prayed about milk, and they didn't know what the effect would be, but what the effect was is that they were able to have the milk last longer and preserve longer.
And the reason was, the milk was undefended.
Nobody was thinking about milk.
That's a strange thing to pray about.
Alright, well I... Now that I know what I said, that people pray about the milk and too many people be thinking about that, then you gotta go someplace else with undefended milk.
That's the exact problem.
Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Bill Sweet.
Hi.
Good evening, Art and Bill Sweet.
Hello.
Hi.
I have a question and a quick comment, if I could please.
Sure.
Quickly, could those groups that were praying against the cling vials have actually caused them to kill themselves?
Good question.
And the theme of going for it, I had a custom t-shirt made for a big festival and it said
mental masturbation, possession or garden of Eden.
Bill, your turn.
I think that, I just saw the Manchurian Candidate and I'll tell you, I think people could have
people work on them and people do do things.
Wait till you see this article that I just read in the U.S.
News & World Report.
The things people were made to do and they didn't even know they were doing it.
This article makes the argument that we don't even choose the person we marry.
It's all done through the unconscious mind strongly having to do with, believe it or not, the sense of smell.
It's unbelievable.
Not only that, Art, this is really interesting.
Research that just got into the magazine in time, I guess.
Schizophrenia, we think it has to do with all kinds of other things.
They think schizophrenia has to do with smell.
Almost all schizophrenics have a bad or no sense of smell, and they're not picking up social cues and it's distorting everything in their lives.
That's strange.
I know that people, for example, with brain tumors, one, Very common side effect of a brain tumor, Bill, is that the victim smells things that aren't really there.
Very strong, very strong smells.
Really?
Oh yes, absolutely.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Bill Sweet.
Good morning.
Hello?
Hello?
Yes, you're on the air.
Hi.
I have a quick comment I want to make about something I noticed in the news recently that's kind of scary and seems to fit into this entire motif that we've been talking about tonight.
Okay.
I don't know if you noticed, but the Sony Corporation actually took out a patent this week on an experiment they've been working on which beams radio waves into a subject's brain and elicits responses such as smell, sight, and sound.
No kidding!
Believe it or not, this is true.
I read this on CNN.com and I saw it on ABC.
The Matrix is here!
Yeah, the Matrix is here, he said.
Yeah, and I think the scariest thing about this whole thing is this is an application that is going to be used for gaming.
Gaming?
When you really think about it, in a way, that's kind of like a mind control application.
And you know how you can talk about how the conscience and intent Yes.
Caller?
to affect things for the first time ever we have an actual corporation
that filed a patent to use that being very
to actually affected the opposite direction to affect the one-mile caller
i wonder color maybe they'll call it the smell of money
uh... that that's the truth uh... all my
anyone in the wild river headed for a This is interesting.
We're headed for a technological dark ages.
It sounds like that, from what the caller is saying.
We're heading for a technological dark ages.
I think that this could be what's happening.
He's talking about computer games influencing things.
You probably have had Rupert Sheltrick on as a guest.
Absolutely.
Did he tell you about this thing he was involved in with people doing crossword puzzles?
No.
Okay, this is interesting.
It kind of reminded me of that one I heard about the games he mentioned.
They found out that when people would start doing a crossword puzzle in the newspaper in the afternoon, that it was real hard and they were watching people and monitoring people.
And then as it got toward evening, more and more people were doing it and it became easier.
And as it went on to the night, the people who did it the later night, We're moving faster and figuring out the thing.
The theory being that as more people figured this out, it was setting out a field again and it was enhancing, kind of like the 100th monkey.
Got it.
I got it.
It was easier as time went on for people to do these puzzles.
Because the answers were being filed away in the library or mass consciousness.
Yes.
And so the more people did them, the more answers were out there, more readily To be plucked from the ether.
More adroitly, came to people's thoughts.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Bill Sweet.
Good morning.
Morning, gentlemen.
Hi.
Yes, sir.
Unfortunately, the cold hard truth about the whole matter is we cannot save the world that does not have the desire to be saved.
And let me preface that with the three elements that I believe is what Bill is mentioning here, is that it contains the free will, and intent and effect.
Now, Art, I know you're fond of time travel or effective time, and when you've got to preface that, you must think about how the future events of time and how they unfold, and that's why precognitive people don't always have a real good high capacity or percentage of accuracy when they try to predict the outcomes, because we will.
Well, frankly, sir, the best psychic I've seen lately has been Princeton with their graph.
I'm sorry, but they've established a track record that I think would put most psychics and tellers into the dirt.
So, what do you think, Bill?
Well, here's a thought I picked on in what he said.
According to Neuroscientists now, and according to this article I brought up earlier about U.S.
News & Report, it could be that almost all free will is a myth.
There is no free will.
We're driven by things we don't understand.
So there may be no free will.
Yes, I find that unacceptable.
It bothers them.
It bothers them, yes.
Maybe it's true, I don't know, but I don't like to think like that.
Well, I think that what would happen is that as we Well, not if all is preordained, then there is no original thinking.
It wasn't exactly preordained.
on that. We can find end ways to run around stuff that is telling us what to do. That's
why we need creative thought. That's why we have to be open.
That's why we have to expect the unexpected and not get into routines where we're run by
our education, our culture and our unconscious minds.
Well, not if all is preordained. Then there is no original thinking.
It wasn't exactly preordained. It's just that we don't understand what's running us.
card line you're on there with bill sweet Good morning.
Hello.
Going once, going twice.
Hello?
Yes, hello.
Turn your radio off, please.
That's good.
Off, off, off.
I was listening to you.
I've been listening to your program for about six months now.
Yes.
And I think that your current guest is confusing Do you?
Do you think it really is a confusion that they are different?
Absolutely!
Do you, Bill?
Oh, I think that a person... We're trying to establish in our research that one person praying for one object, one experiment, you can show an interrelationship there, going on interaction.
We believe that that prayerful interaction can be shown.
And as you kept up the thought, you said, well, how does this field go?
Does it go out and affect other things?
Well, it can't be isolated enough that it's not going out and affecting everything else.
I think everything does affect everything else.
Everything is an input.
But I think, too, that prayer can be individualistic, and I think that's what the caller is talking about.
For all we know, it affects the sender.
It does.
You know, kind of like some weapons the military is developing right now, they have these new weapons that they can't figure out how to use because it affects the guy who pulls the trigger.
That's right.
That's right.
There's a lot of weird things going on.
I know a guy who makes speakers for stereos, and he made a real strong cone, and he got a knock on the door one day from the government and said, uh, we like what you're doing.
Why don't you come work for us?
They're making sound weapons.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Bill Sweet.
Good morning.
How are you doing, gentlemen?
Okay.
Um, well, it's kind of a religious belief that two things of all religions always exist.
One is, thou shalt not kill, of course, and the other aspect, you know, except for Buddha, because Buddha is one-to-one, but two or more are gathered in my name, you know, I am present.
So, do you think, possibly, I'm sorry, Bill, that, um, I mean, was it your understanding that because you said they didn't necessarily believe in God, yet there were very spiritual people... They believed in God.
Pardon me?
They believed in God.
Okay.
They were spiritual people.
They worked for the church.
They were believing God.
Okay.
Do you think they were looking for a link?
Do you think they were trying to do what the Catholic Church has always denied in order to link science and basically, I suppose, in today's life, the regular person?
We were trying to find legitimate ways through the scientific method to link science and religion.
Yes.
Through experiments.
That's a serious endeavor, sir, that gets you in trouble with a lot of people.
You got that right.
And actually, it's kind of like the classic movie scenario where you've got both the government and the mob after you.
Well, I had a scientific skeptic who was an atheist tell me, he said, gee, I realize that not only do you have us against us, but you have all the churches against us, all the religions against us.
Yes, that's quite a group.
As I said, like the police and the mob.
I mean, how do you win that one?
You don't.
The police and the mob?
Well, maybe you've got to go over to terrorism.
At any rate, Bill, this has been an incredibly interesting night that I've spent with you over this whole affair.
And I guess, as you said in your book, it has shaped your life to the degree that perhaps you would have had a happier life if you never had been involved.
I believe that's correct.
I believe that's correct.
I've enjoyed talking to you and I say hello to everybody.
My sister is the vice president of the Art Bell Club here in Chicago.
and she'd drop you know if you're too perfect at the wrong shakespeare thing
here with a little system out of power but i referred to earlier i say all
right well but anyway small so i think it's not that by the way my mom and
sister are him operators to occur at the play of the house well perhaps one day
will run into each other on one of the bands i tend to hang out on uh...
thirty eight forty on seventy five meters and i'd i'd love to hear you get an antenna up that would do that
and then be able to We have to work on that.
So I just hope that we can all tip the world consciousness in the right direction and get away from all this bad stuff going on.
Okay, buddy.
Thanks for being here.
Thank you.
Take care.
As I said, a fantastic and cautionary tale indeed.
What a weekend.
From the high desert, I'm Mark Bell.
This is Crystal Gale.
The words were for me.
Good night.
Midnight in the desert, shooting stars across the sky.
This magical journey will take us on a ride.
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