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March 27, 2005 - Art Bell

02:53:58

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Open Lines - The Coming Gas Crisis

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	the from the heart of the great american southwest of the door
	but he didn't want to have to do whatever you may be in the world's time zones
	I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM, that program that covers all those time zones like a great, soft, fuzzy blanket.
	Yeah, maybe not so fuzzy tonight.
	It's gonna be a rough show, actually.
	It's gonna be an extremely interesting program tonight, and I'll tell you why.
	Number one, it's gonna be open lines.
	Well, sort of.
	Let me go ahead and get a couple of world things out of the way here.
	Their hopes fading, and legal opinions now exhausted, and all the options.
	Terri Schiavo's parents appeared, quietly resigned today, Sunday, to watching her die, but could claim one Easter victory.
	The severely brain-damaged woman received a drop of communion wine on her tongue, her only sustenance in nine days.
	After her husband allowed her to receive the sacrament outside the hospice where Shivo is being cared for, five protesters were arrested.
	About a half dozen people in wheelchairs got out of them, lay in the driveway shouting, we're not dead yet.
	The word I've received is that Terri Shivo is now really past the point where even heroics would help her.
	And the family itself seems resigned, has asked the protesters to go home.
	In other words, I guess they feel it's over for Terry.
	They don't, or they've stopped wanting intervention at this point, I guess.
	And so, maybe with that from the family, and knowing it has reached that point, perhaps we could ask the same of you tonight.
	In other words, Whichever side of this great war, this moral war that you are on, it's ending.
	You know, it's going to end.
	You know, now if you look at some websites, you'll see that they're fighting over the body that isn't even a body yet.
	Pope John Paul II delivered an Easter Sunday blessing to tens of thousands in St.
	Peter's Square but the ailing part of unable to speak and managed only to greet the satin crowd with the sign of the cross bringing tears to many eyes.
	Al-Qaeda in Iraq released a video Sunday claiming to show the murder of an interior ministry official and indeed Iraq says one is missing so I guess that was him.
	By declaring himself completely innocent of child molestation charges, Michael Jackson said Sunday he is the victim of a conspiracy and asked fans around the world to pray for him.
	He apparently was interviewed by the Reverend Jesse Jackson.
	All right, now in a moment I'm going to read to you a portion, I don't know, a fair portion I guess, of a Rolling Stone article just printed called the long emergency by James Howard Kessler and I want you to absorb what I'm about to say or as much of it as you can because I have questions I have some doozies I really have some some questions that I've cooked up for all of you out there I'll share those with you after you listen and I really do want you to listen to this coming up
	In just one moment, again, it'll be by Howard Kunstler.
	It was published in Rolling Stone.
	It will frame what we're going to do tonight.
	stay right where you are originally i was seeking a guest for this program maybe to
	talk about people and the economic uh... impact on american when it would
	happen all the rest of it was really nobody qualified
	And we found somebody who could talk about peak oil only, but not the economic impact, and what the world is doing geopolitically right now, so I finally said, the heck with it.
	I don't need a guest.
	We'll do this show ourselves, and we will.
	Let's begin this way.
	Here it is.
	Again, this was Howard Kunstler, actually, in the Rolling Stone magazine, just published.
	A few weeks ago, the price of oil ratcheted above $55 a barrel.
	Now, that's about $20 a barrel more than a year ago.
	Next day, the oil story was buried on page 6 of the New York Times business section.
	Apparently, Press Voyle's not considered significant news, even when it goes up five bucks a barrel in a span of ten days that same day.
	The stock market shot up more than a hundred points because CNN has said the government data showed no signs of inflation.
	Note to clueless nation, call Planet Earth.
	Carl Jung, one of the fathers of psychology, famously remarked that people cannot stand too much reality.
	What you're about to hear might challenge your assumptions about the kind of world we live in, and especially the kind of world into which events are propelling us.
	We're in for one rough ride through uncharted territory.
	It's been very hard for Americans, lost in dark raptures of non-stop infotainment, recreational shopping, and compulsive motoring, to make any sense at all of the gathering forces that are going to fundamentally alter the terms of everyday life in our technological society.
	Even after the terrorist attacks of 9-11, America is still sleepwalking into the future.
	I call this coming time the Long Emergency.
	Most immediately, We face the end of the cheap fossil fuel era.
	It's no exaggeration to state that reliable supplies of cheap oil and natural gas underlie everything we identify as the necessities of our modern life, not to mention all of its comforts, its luxuries, central heating, air conditioning, cars, airplanes, electric lights, inexpensive clothing, recorded music, movies, hip replacement surgery, national defense, you name it!
	The few Americans who are not even aware that there is a gathering global energy predicament usually misunderstand the core of the whole argument.
	The argument states that we don't have to run out of oil and gas to start having severe problems with industrial civilization and its dependent systems.
	We only have to slip over the all-time production peak and begin a slide down the arc of steady depletion.
	The term global oil production peak Means a turning point is going to come.
	When the world produces the most oil it's going to ever produce in a given year, and after that yearly production will inexorably decline.
	It is usually represented graphically in a bell curve.
	Peak is up there at the top of the curve, the halfway point of the world's all-time total endowment, meaning half the world's oil will be left.
	And that seems like a lot of oil, and it is, but There's a very large catch.
	It's the half that's a whole lot more difficult to extract, far more costly to get, much poorer quality, and located mostly in places where the people hate our guts.
	A substantial amount of it will never be extracted.
	The U.S.
	passed its own oil peak.
	Did you know this?
	About 11 million barrels a day in 1970.
	Since then, production has dropped steadily.
	In 2004, it ran about 5 million barrels a day.
	Got a tad more from natural gas, yet we consume about 20 million barrels a day now.
	That means we have to import about two-thirds of our oil, and that ratio is going to continue to worsen the U.S.
	peak.
	In 1970 brought on a pretentious change in geoeconomic power.
	Within a few years, foreign producers, chiefly OPEC, were setting the price of oil.
	And that, in turn, led to the oil crisis of the 1970s.
	In response, frantic development of non-OPEC oil, especially the North Sea fields of England and Norway, essentially saved the West's ass for about two decades.
	Since 1999, these fields have entered depletion.
	Meanwhile, worldwide discovery of new oil has steadily declined to insignificant, that's an important word, insignificant levels in 2003 and 2004.
	Some cornucopians claim that the earth has some kind of creamy nugget center oil, in other words, it's going to naturally replenish the great oil fields of the world.
	The facts speak differently, of course.
	There has been no replacement whatsoever of oil already extracted from the fields of America, or for that matter, anywhere else in the world.
	Now we're faced with the global oil production peak.
	Best estimates of when this will actually happen have been somewhere between now and 2010.
	In 2004, however, after demand from burgeoning China and India, and they won a lot, shot up, Revelations that Shell Oil wildly misstated its reserves and Saudi Arabia proved incapable of goosing up its production despite promises to do so.
	The most knowledgeable experts revised their predictions and now concur that 2005 now is apt to be the year of the all-time peak global production.
	It will change everything, everything about how we live.
	To aggravate matters, American natural gas production is also declining at 5% a year.
	Despite frenetic new drilling, and with the potential of much steeper declines ahead, because the oil crisis of the 1970s and nuclear plant disasters at Three Mile Island and Chernobyl and the acid rain problem, the U.S.
	chose to make gas its first choice for electric power generation.
	The result was just about every power plant built after 1980 has to run on, guess what, gas.
	Half the homes in America are heated with gas.
	To further complicate matters, gas is not easy to import here in North America.
	It's distributed through a vast pipeline network.
	Gas imported from overseas would have to come to us compressed at about minus 260 degrees Fahrenheit in pressurized tanker ships, then get unloaded at special terminals.
	Very few of those exist in America.
	Moreover, they're tempting targets for terrorism.
	Some other things about the global energy predicament are poorly understood by the public and even our leaders.
	This is going to be a permanent energy crisis, and these energy problems will synergize with the disruptions of climate change, epidemic disease, and population overshoot to produce higher orders of trouble.
	We'll have to accommodate ourselves to fundamentally changed conditions.
	No combination of alternative fuels will allow America to have the kind of life we've become accustomed to, or even a substantial portion of it.
	The wonders of steady technological process achieved through The reign of cheap oil have lulled us into kind of a Jimmy Cricket syndrome, leading many Americans to believe that anything we wish for hard enough is going to come true.
	These days, even people who ought to know better are wishing ardently for a seamless transition from fossil fuels to whatever might replace them.
	The widely touted hydrogen economy is a particularly cruel hoax.
	We're not going to replace the U.S.
	automobile and truck fleets with vehicles run on fuel cells, for one thing.
	The current generation of fuel cells is largely designed to run on hydrogen obtained from natural gas.
	The other way to get hydrogen, in the quantities wished for, would be electrolysis of water using power from hundreds of nuclear power plants.
	Apart from the very dim prospect of our building that many nuclear plants soon enough, there are also numerous severe problems with hydrogen's nature as an element Wishful notions about rescuing our way of life with renewables are also rather unrealistic.
	Solar electric systems and wind turbines face not only the enormous problem of scale, but the fact that the components require substantial amounts of energy to manufacture And the probability that they can't be manufactured at all without the underlying support platform of a fossil fuel economy.
	We will surely use solar and wind technology to generate some electricity for some period ahead, but probably at a very local and small scale.
	Virtually all biomass schemes for using plants to create liquid fuels cannot be scaled up enough or even a fraction of the level They're going to have to run things on now.
	What's more, these schemes are predicated on using oil and gas inputs, fertilizers, weed killers, to grow the biomass crops that would be converted into ethanol or biodiesel fuels.
	This is a net energy loser.
	You might as well burn the inputs and not bother with the biomass products.
	Coal is far less versatile than oil and gas and is less abundant in supplies and, many people assume, fraught with huge ecological drawbacks as a contributor to greenhouse global warming gases and many health and toxicity issues ranging all the way from widespread mercury poisoning to acid rain.
	You can make synthetic oil from coal, but the only time this was ever tried on a large scale was by the Nazis under wartime conditions, using very impressive amounts of slave labor.
	If we wish to keep the lights on in America after 2020, we may indeed have to resort to nuclear power, with all its practical problems and eco-conundrums.
	Under optimal conditions, it could take 10 years to get a new generation of nuclear power plants into operation, and the price may be beyond our means.
	Uranium, incidentally, is also a resource in finite supply.
	We are no closer to the more difficult project of atomic fusion, by the way, than we were in the 1970s.
	Kuntzler goes on, Suburbia, American Suburbia, will come to be regarded as the greatest misallocation of resources in the history of the world.
	And he says, it has a tragic destiny.
	The successful regions in the 21st century are going to be the ones surrounded by viable farming hinterlands that can reconstitute locally sustainable economies on an armature of civic cohesion.
	Small towns and smaller cities have better prospects than the big cities, which will probably have to contract substantially.
	The process is going to be painful and tumultuous.
	In many American cities such as Cleveland, Detroit, St.
	Louis, the process is already well advanced.
	Others have further devolved.
	New York and Chicago face extraordinary difficulties being oversupplied with gigantic buildings out of scale with the reality of declining energy supplies.
	Their former agricultural hinterlands have long since been paved over.
	Still, our cities occupy important sites.
	Some kind of urban entities will exist where they are in the future, but probably not the colossi of the 21st century industrialism.
	Some regions of the country are going to do better than others in the long emergency.
	The Southwest will suffer in proportion to the degree that it prospered during the cheap oil blowout of the late 20th century, I predict.
	Sunbelt states like Arizona and Nevada will become significantly depopulated.
	Since the region will be short of water as well as gasoline and natural gas, imagine Phoenix without cheap air conditioning.
	Unimaginable, actually.
	I'm not optimistic, he says, about the southeast either, for different reasons.
	I think it will be subject to a substantial level of violence as the grievances of the formerly middle class boil over and collide with the delusions of Pentecostal Christian extremism.
	The latent and coded behavior of Southern culture includes an outsized notion of individualism and the belief that firearms ought to be used in the defense of it.
	This is a poor recipe for civic cohesion.
	The mountain states and Great Plains will face an array of problems, from poor farming potential, to water shortages, to population loss.
	The Pacific Northwest, New England, and the Upper Midwest are somewhat better.
	They have better prospects.
	I regard them as less likely to fall into lawlessness, anarchy, or despotism, and more likely to salvage the bits and pieces of our best social traditions and keep them operational at some level.
	These are daunting, even dreadful, prospects.
	The long emergency is going to be a tremendous trauma for the human race.
	We will not believe that this is happening to us.
	That 200 years of the modern world can be brought to its knees by a worldwide power shortage.
	The survivors will have to cultivate a religion of hope.
	That is a deep and comprehensive belief that humanity is worth carrying on.
	If there is any positive side to stark changes coming our way, it may be in the benefits of close communal relations, of having to really work intimately and physically with our neighbors, to be part of an enterprise that really matters, and to be fully engaged in meaningful social enactments instead of being merely entertained to avoid boredom.
	Years from now, when we hear singing at all, We will hear ourselves, and we will sing with our whole hearts.
	So the words of Howard Kessler, not necessarily mine, however, I buy into it sufficiently.
	I've had any number of guests on the subject of peak oil, and so clearly I think I believe that.
	And I believe the basic tenets of this article, perhaps not some of the social conclusions toward the end that he had.
	And by the way, I skipped portions of it, some rather substantial portions of it, so I definitely recommend that you go to Rolling Stone, read the whole thing.
	Still, it kind of sets up the criticality, the degree of criticality of the situation.
	So I've come up with a number of questions for you.
	And I would only ask that you answer them honestly.
	That's all.
	Five simple, well, not so simple questions.
	One, do you believe what you just heard, that the crisis, the oil crisis, just described, is real?
	Do you think the thing is real?
	Are we really facing, or is it just all Some sort of grand conspiracy.
	Is it not real?
	We've got more oil than we could ever use.
	I don't care about Japan and India and China and what they're telling us.
	Is it real?
	That's the first question.
	The second question is, do you think most Americans can accept the amount of reality that you just heard?
	Assuming that you do accept it as real, do you think most Americans can accept that level of reality?
	At what pump price would, and I want you to think about this, at what pump price would your current lifestyle be unsustainable?
	It's already getting high out there.
	It's already getting expensive out there, folks.
	So at what pump price would your current life as you lead it become unsustainable for?
	Would you, if it came to it, would you steal or even kill to feed your family?
	That's number four.
	Number five is like number four.
	number five is do you support the united states going to war
	to obtain additional energy supplies
	the the
	the To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
	The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
	The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
	To talk with Art Bell from east to the Rockies, call toll free 800-825-5033.
	From west to the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
	International callers may reach Art by calling your in-country Sprint Access number, pressing
	option 5 and dialing toll free 800-893-0903.
	From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	I'm sorry.
	It's not really easy for me to accept, you know, everything in this article, because if I do, the American Southwest, I mean, remember, folks, you're listening to somebody right now who's 20 miles from Death Valley.
	Death Valley, one of the more unsustainable places in the entire world, along with Phoenix, I guess, without a lot of power, so that you can be cool enough to live, because it gets to unlivable temperatures.
	Of course, You know, Vermont is not exactly any treat either in the middle of the winter.
	We'll be right back.
	Be aware that whether or not you call about this, I still may pummel you with these questions.
	I am really, really curious about these questions.
	How much reality, sort of, the American people can accept?
	This may be beyond what they can accept reasonably.
	I really have considered... Anyway, here we go.
	To the phone lines we go.
	First time caller line, you are on the air.
	Good morning.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	What's your first name, please?
	This is James.
	Okay, James.
	We're in Minnesota.
	Yes, sir.
	Yes.
	One question, or the answer to your question is gas price?
	The question was, at what pump price would your life, as you have it now, be unsustainable?
	Maybe you wouldn't be able to get back and forth and forward to get back and forth to work, whatever.
	I would say roughly around $4.
	About $4, huh?
	Yes.
	I'd say, at that time, I would Let's go backwards a little bit, because the first question I guess is the most relevant.
	Do you think the crisis as I outlined it through that article is real?
	Is it real?
	and all that uh... i guess let's go backwards a little bit uh... because the
	first question i guess is the most relevant do you do you think the crisis
	as i outlined it through that article israel is it real uh...
	i don't i don't really
	think so but uh... i don't
	i don't have enough information to really determined but it i don't think there is
	Meaning you think there's enough oil in the ground to go around?
	For some time.
	I mean, I don't know what's down there, but... Well, as the price of the pump goes from $4, say, to $5, then things begin to happen on their own, sort of, right?
	Yes.
	And so it could really get rough out there.
	It really could.
	And it could get to the point where people, I guess, get down to whether they would steal or even kill to feed their family, or would they see their family starve to death?
	No, I wouldn't think so.
	Probably not, huh?
	And then the question shifts to the whole country and whether, as a nation, most presidents we've had, in all my memory as an adult, have said that we would, in a second, go to war to protect access to the Persian Gulf so the oil could keep coming.
	We would go to war for that.
	Yes, I think we would.
	There's a lot riding on it right now, I would say, once these alternatives come around.
	And our, um, our, no, we can afford them.
	Yeah, this Councilor article was pretty rough on the alternatives.
	It was like saying, there's none that really will work.
	Not to replace what we're losing.
	Right.
	Need to be a different world.
	Alright, thank you very much for your responses.
	I appreciate it.
	Be a very different world.
	You know, he's sort of... I'm not sure that I'm as pessimistic as Kunstler is in this article.
	He is pretty pessimistic.
	And you know me, I can be very pessimistic and cynical and all the rest of it.
	And I don't think it's going to get... I hope it's not going to get down to that.
	But one can see that if anything could do it, this would be what could do it.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	Excellent topic you have tonight.
	Art Schroeder from Los Angeles.
	Yes, sir.
	Yeah, I mean, this is sort of a no-brainer.
	Our government's being run by the oil corporations.
	I mean, Ronald Reagan was funded by our coal oil, and the Bush administration, ExxonMobil was tied in deep with, and all this is just advantages.
	Well, sir, oil is propelling our nation.
	These presidents have to be oil presidents, right now anyway, until it's gone, and then we're going to need somebody else.
	You remember when the artificial prices went up uh... really quick and everybody wanted what's more going
	up so high in the barrel is still a twenty one dollars a barrel of oil. I
	remember.
	Yeah, then they go, oh my god, you know we forgot to raise the price of oil. So they drop gas down
	for a couple weeks and then they try to figure out how to manipulate it again. It raised up
	and they're investigated and they're investigated, they investigate it four or five
	times and they said, okay let's raise the price of barrel of oil.
	See, it's all manipulative.
	They're just taking advantage of what's going on.
	Well, with China and India now, it's up to $55 a barrel.
	There's no such thing as local oil, really, anymore.
	I mean, it's all world spot oil, so it's the world price, you know, whatever.
	It's a demand market.
	We want the oil, we'll pay X number of dollars, we'll get it for now, but at some point, There won't be any sell at any price almost, or at least before we ever get to that conundrum, we get to the we-can't-afford-it-anyway price.
	Yeah, yeah, but you know, everybody's heard this.
	They're intentionally holding back oil to drive the price up, and then they're coming back to say that we need to stock our military surplus reserves and all this and that, which is a lie.
	You don't believe that the crisis is real at all?
	The crisis is in the White House.
	If we were to have, accidentally, a Democrat and a President, there would be lawsuits and people in prison, like Enron.
	There would be people in jail right now.
	Gas would be, there would be a lawsuit settled, and the gas price would be adjusted to about 59 cents a gallon to compensate from the... You think a Democrat would get it down to 59 cents, huh?
	Due to a lawsuit.
	Yeah, they would say, well, offset the price, this is how much you gouged everybody, and it's 59 cents for approximately two years.
	Alright, well, I accept what you've said, but I think it's delusional.
	I don't think any lawsuit's going to bring oil down 59 cents a gallon.
	None of us are going to live to see that again.
	I'm sorry, I just, I don't buy any of that because it is a world price.
	It's not just the U.S.
	that wants oil anymore.
	It's not just the U.S.
	buying oil.
	Hell, some of our oil from Alaska goes to Japan, right?
	And then we import oil from elsewhere.
	And so this is a world oil price.
	It's not a U.S.
	oil price, even though I'm sure our oil companies manipulate the hell out of prices sometimes.
	You know they do.
	We all know they do.
	Summertime comes, we drive, they raise the price of gas.
	But this is kind of beyond that.
	These questions that I'm asking go beyond that.
	Go beyond the little annoyances and misdoings that they might have done.
	This goes to the world's supply of oil.
	And that's out of even their hands.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Is this East?
	Yes.
	Oh, okay.
	All right.
	It's Diane in Southwest Florida.
	Well, good morning, Diane.
	Good morning.
	I think it's all conspiracy, and I'll tell you why.
	57% of our oil comes from Mexico and Canada.
	We don't even get that much from the Mideast.
	When boots first touched down in Iraq, the soldiers, if you'll remember, when it was live on the news nationwide, their boots were being soaked with oil, just walking on the ground.
	And they were worried about the one huge oil Well, they're in decree because it has enough oil in it, they said, right on the nation's news to do every man, woman, and child out of that one oil well alone for the next 300 years.
	And then now, all of a sudden, two years later, they're forgetting that this was on the TV.
	OPEC does not set the prices for oil.
	The mercantile up in New York does.
	Well, it's a world spot price.
	It's not just the U.S.
	It's the same price China pays everybody else.
	And as for food, I would grow my own.
	And if somebody comes to steal my food, I would kill them.
	But I would not go out and kill someone else for their food.
	Even if it came down to your family starving?
	I would not let my family starve.
	I would go out, plow the ground, and feed back to the orphans.
	Well, when they came to take your lettuce, you'd riddle them, fill them full of lead?
	Yes, I would shoot them.
	Got it.
	Alright, thank you very much for the call.
	And take care.
	It's going to be, I think, instructive for many of us to listen to what people say this morning.
	Don't take everything you hear as gospel.
	You know, people hear a lot of things.
	It doesn't make them so.
	Certain statistics regarding, for example, the amount of oil in Iraq may or may not be true.
	I don't know about supplying every man, woman, and child for 300 years.
	I'm not sure all the known reserves are going to do that.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi there.
	It's Sean in Vancouver, Canada.
	Sean, you're going to have to raise your voice a little.
	Much better.
	Close to the phone there.
	Alrighty.
	I think there's a lot of Travesty with pricing and delirium about what's out there and what's not.
	And I think, much as I hate to say it, I think there's just too much decadence in our politics and too much, how can I say, corruption, given Iran-Contra.
	I mean, I don't know how you feel about the Marines' participation in that.
	My son and I are fourth and fifth generation armed forces up here, and we just think that A lot of lives are being told, a lot of lives are being wasted, and you've got the Cheney News Network or the Carlisle News Network being one thing for Bush.
	Alright, so you think this whole oil thing is baloney?
	I think they're leading us into a global Tyranny is a scenario where they want to lock us down based on all sorts of diversions and strife.
	You're saying a lot of words, but you're not answering the question yet.
	Is the whole oil crisis real or not real?
	I think more than likely it's not real, and their profit margins prove that.
	Well, their profit margins are pretty incredible, alright.
	They're making tons of money.
	I've got article after article after article here, and I've got something or another.
	Somewhere on what the, you know, they're record profits, I can tell you right now without reaching the article.
	Yeah, here we go.
	Alright, this is in pounds, you know.
	The announcement of world record profits for both Shell and BP in recent weeks has sparked a debate in the UK over the need for a proposed windfall tax on oil company profits and windfall tax.
	BP enjoyed annual profits of 8.7 billion pounds.
	Oh, baby.
	A rise of 26% on the previous year.
	Shell recorded profits of 9.4 billion for the year, around a million an hour.
	A million pounds an hour.
	So they're making a lot of money.
	There's no question about that.
	International Line, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Good morning.
	Hi.
	How are you?
	I'm fine.
	Great.
	Thank you for allowing me to answer the questions, Mr. Bell.
	First of all, I'd like to say... Okay, this is art.
	There's no one else here.
	I'm the only one, so... Well, thank you.
	So, you want to try them, huh?
	Yeah.
	Alright.
	Do you think the crisis is real or baloney?
	I actually think it's quite real, or it's starting to...
	Obviously grow into something that's going to make our eyes wake up.
	Maybe look at going to, you know, soybean for gas.
	I think that might be a good option also to, you know, for our environment.
	Okay, so you think it's real?
	I do.
	That means that you think, well, you're going to have to have a lot of other opinions then.
	For example, every day now we go to the gas station and Oh, man.
	Oh, baby.
	There's a lot of shock there.
	I mean, really, a lot of shock.
	It's Monday morning.
	Yeah, you've got it.
	So, I mean, it just rises like crazy.
	At what price?
	Well, I'm in Canada, so right now we pay approximately, well, tonight it was 83.5 cents a liter, so there's four liters in a gallon.
	So, for American viewers, We're currently paying in London, Ontario, $3.34 a gallon.
	Yikes!
	We don't have viewers in either country.
	We have listeners, though.
	Oh, yes, I know.
	So $3.34 or so per gallon.
	Yes, per gallon.
	All right.
	Where would it have to go before it began truly negatively impacting your life?
	Or is it already?
	It actually is.
	I mean, that's a lot of money.
	And we need to drive every day to work.
	Some of us here in our community have to drive more than half an hour.
	So, you know, it's not putting $20 in the tank every week.
	Yeah.
	It's now going up to $40 a week.
	That's right.
	And all these people that are buying these huge SUVs and Hummers that live in a huge city, I don't think they require those kind of vehicles.
	And I get a little bit upset.
	I know it's a stigma that, okay, great, you've got tons of money.
	Do it in a better way.
	Donate some money.
	Well, something really weird happened to us.
	I mean, back in the 70s, the old boat anchors that were getting no mileage to speak of at all, they all went up on the market when gas got short, along with people's tempers, I might add.
	I lived through that time.
	Man, they were fighting at gas stations.
	Fist fights were breaking out.
	It was terrible.
	It really was.
	And we latched on to the Japanese economy car, and then all of a sudden, oil got plentiful again.
	And the big cars, even bigger cars, bigger than before!
	They came back, and now we've got great big boats out there.
	And why aren't we tapping into our oil lines here in Alberta?
	They want the government, and it always boils down to the government.
	Well, you know, I always had a kind of a cool, I think it's a cool theory, that say Canada and the U.S.
	working together, and we probably do, It was smart to keep our oil on the ground and buy other people's oil because eventually we're going to need that oil.
	So why not?
	It's cheaper.
	We don't have to transport it.
	It's sitting there on the ground.
	it's not going anywhere exactly and i mean with with what's going on between
	the president and the prime minister that's their story i know that the
	canadians and americans i would hopefully would think would come
	together and say let's work on our oil together and sell it to each other only
	Do you think that Americans and Canadians, I'll add Canadians, can accept the kind of reality that was in that story?
	That's pretty hard stuff.
	I absolutely do believe in that.
	Myself, I'm only 20.
	I'm ready for reality.
	I think this whole world needs a reality wake-up call and maybe take a step back.
	I do believe the government It's always hiding information.
	We can take that even from John F. Kennedy.
	They won't allow his files to open up for 75 years.
	Why do they have to hide things from us?
	Why is this not only the Canadian government but the American government putting these ideas in our head that we're all five-year-olds and that we don't know how to Look after ourselves.
	With them, he's shielding us.
	Maybe because they don't know the solution themselves, and what's the point in panicking us if they don't know what to do?
	I don't know.
	That's only one possibility.
	You know what?
	I agree with that statement 100%, but I think they need to say, you know what?
	Maybe not in our lifetime, Mr. Bell, but in the next lifetime, I think we really need to Make our governments know that we all have the right to know exactly what's going on, whether it's going to hurt us.
	Maybe in the next lifetime, like that guy was talking about, gas will be 59 cents, but we're not going to get to it in this lifetime.
	Unless we, you know, go back to Star Trek ways.
	That's right.
	Now, if it came down to it, this is a zinger, you know?
	It is.
	If it came down to it, would you steal or kill to feed your family?
	I would steal.
	I would steal enough for my family and my neighbor.
	I would not kill.
	And if someone came to my door and I had food, I would not kill them.
	I would share with them.
	If it got down to the point where the whole country was going into a deep depression, people were losing jobs, this country was going to hell in a handbasket, would you support the United States going to war to obtain energy supplies?
	No.
	You would not?
	I would not.
	I would ask that the Canadian and the American government work together and let's get some farm fields going and let's support our farmers.
	I mean the farmers in America and Canada.
	But what if that wouldn't?
	You know, I'm all for that.
	This biodiesel thing, I'm all for that, for what little it can do.
	Or maybe it can do a lot.
	We should immediately start on that, but what if that's not enough?
	What if our country was headed for Tin Pan Alley and on our knees, and some country was preventing us from getting Mideast oil?
	Wait, that's great.
	I just feel that, you know, how many more innocent people do we have to kill for a liquid in the ground?
	Some people would say as many as it takes.
	But I hear you.
	I'm a young hippie.
	I was born in the wrong time.
	I really think, you know, this soybean, ethanol fuel?
	Yes.
	I really think we need to focus more on that.
	But if it's not enough of an answer.
	I know it's not.
	I see these smart cars, there's a few here in London.
	They look great, but I... I don't know, I guess I... Listen, we're out of time.
	I gotta go.
	Thanks for calling.
	We love ya.
	Yup, take care.
	Bad Moon Rising, at least.
	so if you have a comment here we are I see
	bad times today don't go around tonight
	but come take your bag there's a bad moon on the rise
	I hear hurricanes a-flowing I know the end is coming soon
	I know the end is near I'll be here
	when the stars come burn and the warnings on them beer cans
	gonna be buried in them landfills No deposits, no sad songs, and no return.
	Yeah, it's only gonna take about a minute or so till the factories block the sun out, and you're gonna have to turn your lights on just to see.
	And then the lights are gonna be neon, sayin' fly our jets to paradise, and the whole damn world's gonna be made of styrene.
	The bees are walking, flying through the purple nudist sky.
	There won't be no country music.
	There won't be no rock and roll.
	And when they take away our country, they'll take away our soul.
	To talk with Art Bell, call the Wildcard line at area code 7.
	The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
	The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
	To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll free at 800-825-5033.
	From west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
	International callers may reach out by calling your in-country Sprint Access number, pressing
	option 5, and dialing toll-free, 800-893-0903.
	Don't be no rock and roll, when they take away our country, they'll take away our home.
	We're talking about oil, gas, and whether it's all coming to an end.
	Really, that's the first and most important question.
	Do you believe this whole crisis?
	Manufactured or real, it is a crisis.
	Now, I think it's real.
	I must tell you, I do think these peak oil things are real.
	There's less than there was.
	And worldwide, the year 2005, that's what shocked me.
	This year?
	that's people oil for the world you know i've had uh... plenty of guests on about people on
	about the crisis in the economic side of it all the rest None seem to fit entirely tonight, and so I told the producers, forget it.
	You know, forget it.
	Stop trying.
	We'll just go to the audience.
	We'll let them talk about this.
	That's what we're going to do.
	First time caller on the line, you're on air.
	Hello.
	Hello, Art.
	Hi.
	My name is Brian.
	I'm in Tucson, Arizona.
	Yo, Brian.
	I want to answer five questions as concisely as I can.
	Let's take them one at a time, then.
	Okay, number one, do I believe that the oil crisis is real?
	Yes.
	I do believe it.
	I don't necessarily agree with the predictions.
	I mean, you had a guest, I don't know if it was you or George the other night, had a guest about climate change and the erroneous predictions they have about the timeline of specific events.
	I don't necessarily know that we understand when certain things are going to come to head.
	Actually, sir, I think that with the climate, just stick with that for a second, Kilimanjaro is sticking its bare self up to the world right now about 15 years before they thought it was going to happen.
	So if they're wrong, they seem to be wrong on the conservative side.
	And anyway, you do think there is a crisis?
	Oh, I certainly do.
	At what pump price would your life not be sustainable at current levels?
	I have never owned an automobile, so at this time it doesn't concern me.
	Or maybe I don't know in which ways it concerns me.
	But I don't actually own a vehicle, so I don't worry about that.
	Wow!
	Wow!
	I bet you buy stuff at a store, don't you?
	Sure do.
	You know what, sir?
	There's all these truckers.
	I got a friend of mine, Tim.
	He's a ham operator.
	He does it five days a week.
	He goes from Kansas City to Utah and other places and he carries all the stuff that you buy at the store.
	And he keeps stopping and putting like 190 gallons of diesel in his truck every few hours, you know?
	Yeah, I guess from catching your drift.
	Yeah.
	I suppose that does affect me.
	As prices go up, even if you're walking to the store.
	Yeah.
	So if it came down to it, would you kill or steal to feed your family?
	In the most apocalyptic kind of view of things, I could certainly see myself stealing.
	I sure as, and having said that, I sure as hell hope that I would never have to kill.
	But, I mean, at what point... But you're not ruling it out.
	I'm not ruling it out in the sense that, you know, at what point do you say, when you're looking out for number one, you turn the other cheek?
	I mean, really, what... I mean, it's hard.
	That's you personally, and it's much harder, sir, for you personally to say what you just said, and I appreciate your honesty, but what about nationally?
	If the U.S.
	was on its knees and had to have oil, would you say the U.S.
	would go to war to get oil?
	I would not feel good about it.
	I mean, it would leave Really lousy feeling in my belly.
	Nobody ever feels good about war though, huh?
	I just don't think it's the right thing.
	I think we really do need to pursue renewable energy.
	And I don't care that the article you read, I don't really believe that it is that dismal for renewable energy.
	I hope you're right and that the person who wrote the article is wrong.
	Honestly, I hope you're right.
	I hope there's this ton of oil on the ground that we don't know about.
	I hope that the panacea that he described, the soft refillable areas, will just suddenly magically fill up again.
	I hope all of that's true.
	But in my heart and in my mind, I know it's not.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Oh, hi.
	It's Jim from Cupertino.
	Yes, sir.
	Yeah, well, we can go to the five questions.
	I forget if one of the questions deals specifically with whether it's a cartel or conspiracy.
	In a way, it does.
	In other words, do you believe the crisis is real?
	What was described in the article I read?
	Is that stuff mostly real?
	Are we running out of oil?
	Well, two quick comments.
	One, I think the crisis is real.
	I think what's completely discounted in all the discussions is the technology that we don't know about yet.
	A lot of these past, in the 70s, they said we were going to run out of food.
	In the mid-90s, it didn't happen, maybe because of genetic engineering.
	Some of these things don't turn out to be true because of technological changes.
	As far as conspiracies, I think it would be more of a conspiracy as to why every real estate sale in California goes for 6%.
	There are so many markets we could point to that are so much more tightly controlled than oil.
	My comment on that is, people forget how the dollar has slid on the world markets.
	Seriously?
	You know, the cost of having a hotel in Paris right now is 50% higher than it was two years ago.
	Oh, that gets me.
	I stayed there.
	I love Paris.
	Oh, man.
	Did you get to Amsterdam on that trip or not?
	Well, I've gone on another trip, yes.
	Okay.
	Well, yeah, regardless.
	So, you know, people forget that the dollar has slid.
	Of course, nobody needs to go to Paris, and people do need to drive to work.
	But let me just make sort of an unemotional economic point that it doesn't take into account personal pain but you know the all the all the cities and counties
	are strapped for cash right now and all the transit systems are just about
	bus yeah and so any uh... you know i've got goes up in price
	not only the people use less of it it's good for the environment got it up
	but people are going to write the public transit more so you know and in a in a strange way this is good for the
	city's empty coffers in a lot of areas so there is no
	mass transit to be right true as though it anyway the same question actually was
	that what pump price do you think your lifestyle would be unsupportable
	we'd be broadcast in europe and we we we were happy to cruise around at five
	bucks a gallon couple years ago right so i mean i i have to pay it over five
	bucks a gallon you know because uh... for my lifestyle
	uh... you know if you look at europeans they've been doing it for a long time
	but at five dollars a gallon your lifestyle would radically begin to
	change Mine wouldn't, but it doesn't depend on a lot of driving in the first place.
	I have a bad back, but I will say it'll make everybody happy to hear that my Chevy Suburban is parked right now.
	Partially because, you know, if I have another car to use, it's cheaper when I need it.
	It has effects, but my lifestyle is not everybody's lifestyle.
	People really are pinched on this.
	You're right.
	Especially people that are on assistance or something.
	How do you think your brothers and sisters will behave when Let me take you back.
	You're old enough, right?
	I remember.
	I was a kid.
	I remember the gas lines.
	Do you?
	And the fights and all that stuff?
	Oh yeah.
	It was 70-something and I was a little kid and I remember sitting in the car going, wow, why are we waiting so long to get gas?
	People were punching each other in the face.
	We had odd days and even days in California.
	All right, so, you know, are your brothers and sisters, if this really gets rough, going to protect themselves?
	Well, let me be comparative again.
	I mean, the latest hot sale at Macy's wasn't so clean either, you know.
	So, I mean, people are competitive, and the realistic answer to your question is, yeah, when there's a total economic breakdown, there'll be a total moral breakdown, and people will kill each other for resources.
	I mean, people kill each other for resources today in the form of armies.
	Would you steal or kill to feed yourself or your family?
	Well, I mean, yeah.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	I mean, to say it realistically in that situation, no.
	And then to extend that to the entire nation, if America was on its knees and someone somewhere had oil, which they probably will, the Saudis, whoever, would you support the U.S.
	going to war?
	Well, I promise I'll make this concise, but it's a bit of an answer because it's a comparative economic point again.
	If the U.S.
	is at its knees, then in the global economy, the world is at its knees.
	So if we continue our existing policy of working in concert with other nations to have military conquest to secure safe oil for everybody, then yeah, I support it.
	You know, our Alaskan oil goes to Japan.
	A lot of the Iraqi oil also goes to other places than us.
	That's true.
	So we are actually right now fighting for the rest of the world to keep oil.
	That's right.
	And so a final quick point, a 2% reduction in oil supply would cause the economic chaos that everybody's feared.
	So people don't understand how critical it is to the world's functioning.
	Now, can we change our consumer habits?
	That's the answer.
	That's a good question.
	I mean, look, we have $30 trillion in private debt.
	Everybody's worried about a government debt.
	I know.
	So, you know, we could go on and on about this, but I hope I've been able to be a good guest and answer some of the questions, and answer that final one honestly.
	Yeah, we would kill each other if it came down to it.
	Thanks for the call, sir.
	You're welcome.
	And take care.
	This is a pretty interesting study, isn't it?
	And people are obviously being very honest, which I very much appreciate.
	I really do.
	This is some crisis we face, and it's coming real quick.
	Not the part where we actually run out of oil.
	The point that A counselor was trying to make with the whole article was that, you know, all of these things that are going to start happening that are not so pretty are going to start happening soon, much before we run out of oil.
	It's when it gets to an unsustainable point for y'all.
	That's when we're going to run into real trouble.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	You talking to me?
	Yes.
	This is Kevin from Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania.
	Yes, Kevin.
	You know, I'd just like to point out something that I think is real obvious in how pathetic we are as a society these days.
	We've been around in existence as a human society for thousands of years.
	We've only depended on oil for a hundred years.
	And why there's a crisis and why people would kill or steal or Whatever, because we can't be more futuristic and look into other opportunities.
	It's pathetic.
	That's pretty general.
	Be more specific.
	We are dependent on oil now.
	Look around you, sir.
	Yeah, we only have been for a hundred years.
	For thousands and thousands of years, mankind has existed without.
	I agree with you.
	I'm with you in a way.
	Except, even the phone you're holding in your hand is petroleum, sir.
	We're dependent on it now, so we can say a hundred years ago, yeah, you're right.
	We didn't depend on it or more.
	But now, we do.
	Because we've gotten ourselves brainwashed into using one energy source, we'll kill each other, And destroy all society, because we can't have the vision to look into other sources of energy, such as nuclear or solar or whatever.
	There's all kinds of energies available right now that we could be using to reduce the amount of fuel that we're consuming.
	I'm with you there.
	Why aren't these oil companies... See, I believe it is a conspiracy, and even if it's not, Even if there is a genuine oil crisis, then why aren't the people who are making all this profit using that money to invest in other technologies for their children and their children's children?
	It's all about greed.
	It's all about making money.
	Why are we, the people, just letting our lives be ruined by the few?
	You're the guy I like.
	I love you.
	You answer your own questions.
	I mean, you did that very well.
	You're right.
	Why aren't we having visions of wonderful, putting money in all these different technologies?
	Because we're greedy.
	You answer your own questions.
	Where's Congress on these issues?
	They're greedy, too.
	They're greedy, too.
	Well, maybe they shouldn't be there.
	Maybe the people need to start voting for other people and getting these people out of office.
	Because, I mean, they have no vision.
	They're just gonna... Remember the who?
	...drag it all down.
	Remember the who?
	New boss, same as the old boss, right?
	Yeah, that's right.
	Well, okay, that is right.
	And so I'm not sure that that... I'm not sure that's gonna work.
	Wes to the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Good morning, Alex.
	Scott, Anaheim, California?
	Yes.
	I, myself, believe that it is a conspiracy.
	I'm not one of those people who think that everything's a conspiracy.
	But three years ago, as I stated, I'm a resident of California.
	Three years ago when we were having those rolling blackouts and brownouts.
	Oh, I know.
	And all of a sudden, if you would have told me, do you think it's a conspiracy, I would have said no and fought you tooth and nail on it.
	Yeah.
	And then the Enron tapes came out.
	I know.
	We were talking about shutting down a grid.
	I know.
	Well, I'm not sure.
	i'm not sure that the and on the balkan i read all the same stuff you did it was
	sickening but i'm not sure that that means that we're not eventually going to
	run out of oil well that you know the and and i get out of fifteen fifteen
	fifteen and uh...
	living pennsylvania at that time but uh... i've seen the news reports
	along line right around the corner and everything Well, it was artificial, though.
	I mean, we were cut off.
	And so, yeah, it was a crisis, but it was because we were cut off, not because it didn't exist.
	I'm asking about a different question.
	What if it doesn't exist?
	What if we actually are running out of oil to the point where it's going to get so expensive that people start beating the hell out of each other and worse?
	Right, indeed.
	And then the question is, would I kill or steal?
	Oh, indeed.
	Provided that that is the common norm.
	And you've got to understand, in an anarchy society, that if that's a common norm, let's be forget, you know, there was people, before guns came out, we were out there with big huge swords, slicing them up.
	So in a Mad Max world, you'd be a Maxite?
	Absolutely.
	There you go, sir.
	Absolutely.
	What about the whole U.S.?
	Would a war be justified if we need to go get oil?
	Because we're... No, the United States will never do that.
	Really?
	I'm trying to understand.
	Look at the common trend of the United States.
	We're the world's police.
	We are the world's keeper.
	We're all virgins in the United States.
	Are we?
	Indeed.
	And so for us to go out and we would have to be the martyr.
	We would have to be the... We want oil.
	We're going to take your land.
	We should have taken Mexico a long time ago.
	Everyone says that.
	We should have taken Iraq a long time ago.
	Okay, we leveled Japan, as you well know, Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and if you know, we're giving a bunch of money to build.
	Now they're a threat to us in the marketplace.
	So, we should have done a lot of things.
	For years, the United States has been nothing but the world's police, and nothing but a world's patsy.
	You know, that we're supposed to be in God and land, and boy, you know, like this.
	So, I cannot imagine a United States going to war We wouldn't, huh?
	We wouldn't do anything like that.
	Not the U.S.
	We're too good.
	We're the world's caretakers.
	years what we try to do uh... you know being how how great we are almost in the
	past week we said we're all virgins i'm alright well
	we wouldn't have we wouldn't do anything like that
	not the u s were too good
	where the world's caretakers we would never ever do such a thing
	but the guy down the street He's got six apples I need.
	Boom.
	International Line, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Good morning, Art.
	This is Jeff.
	I'm calling from Toronto.
	Hey, Jeff.
	I don't want to appear for some of your American Patriot listeners to be American bashing or slagging you as a country, but the thing is that I'm, as an outsider looking in, I'm really getting sick and tired of you guys not walking the walk As opposed to just talking the talk.
	You always present yourself as being the world leaders.
	I would like to really genuinely see you guys doing something from an entrepreneurial standpoint of being the leaders that you always purport yourself as being.
	Give me an example.
	Well, the thing is that it's so difficult for us here in Canada Knowing that we've got so much natural resources that you guys are just clamoring for because you're not prepared to bite the bullet and be conserving in your consumption.
	Now, unfortunately, because we are more of a Nordic country than you are, in as much as we have to deal with the meteorological conditions, We actually consume, on a per capita basis, more energy than you guys do.
	Only because we have to heat our homes.
	Now, the thing is, is that you've got this, the automobile industry that we know in North America runs everything.
	Virtually the whole economy.
	You began your call by saying we need to walk the walk.
	What do you mean by that?
	You want us to do what?
	I want to see you guys Coming out with technology.
	Don't go around the rest of the world throwing your might around trying to induce people into participating in democracies if they don't want to do it.
	For instance, Iraq.
	the amount of money that you guys have spent just being there
	is the amount of money that your own guests that you and george norley have had on
	would be more than sufficient to turn that corner
	and get you guys going into solar energy
	into uh... wind energy to get you off of the
	the dependence on on non-renewable
	fossil fuels and it just it you know i think it just really really hurts
	me as a human being what i see
	the squandering of resources We're squandering things, sir.
	Okay, listen, I've got a break.
	We're at the bottom of the hour.
	I appreciate your call, sir.
	Your Canadian call.
	We'll be right back.
	From the high desert in the middle of the night, if you can't tell already, this is going to be one rock and roll kind of night.
	I'm looking for something.
	Some of them want to use you.
	Some of them want to get used by you.
	Some of them want to abuse you.
	Some of them want to be abused.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Trailer for sale or rent.
	Rooms to let the dissents.
	No phone, no pool, no pets.
	Ain't got no cigarettes.
	Ah, but two hours of pushin' broom buys a eight by twelve four-bit room.
	Mama, man of means by no means.
	King of Rome, third boxcar midnight train.
	Dead sky.
	destination Banger Lane.
	Oh, worn out suit and shoes.
	I don't pay no union dues.
	To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
	The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1295.
	To talk with Art Bell from East of the Rockies, call toll free at 800-825-5033.
	from east to the Rockies call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
	From west to the Rockies call ART at 800-618-8255. International callers may reach
	reach Art Bell by calling your in-country Sprint Access number, pressing option 5, and
	dialing toll-free 800-893-0903. From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this
	is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	You can believe this if all of this is true. Maybe even if it isn't, to be king of the
	road in the future, you're definitely going to have to be a man of memes.
	By the way, if you're up to taking my little test when you call, all you have to do is
	indicate that and we'll go rolling right through the questions with you, believe me.
	First time caller on the line, you are on the air.
	Hello.
	Yeah, Art?
	Yes, sir.
	This is Scott Collin from Lake Mead, Nevada.
	Oh, hi, Scott.
	How you doing?
	Close by.
	Love your show.
	Yes, sir.
	Anyway, you were reading the Rolling Stones article, and he was talking about alternative energies, and for some reason, whenever I hear people talk about alternative energies.
	They always talk about solar and all that stuff, but I never hear anyone say how we could vastly increase, and I mean vastly increase, the hydropower of the United States.
	There's two great books out, Cadillac Desert and Water Wars.
	Everyone ought to read them.
	They're mainly concerned, maybe you've read them, I don't know, but they're concerned mainly about water usage and things like that in the Southwest, but they also talk about hydropower and how it can be increased.
	And real quickly, first off, the capacities of all of our existing, now I'm 60 miles right now from one of the biggest hydro dams in the entire world, the Zuber Dam, and that baby powers up a lot of stuff.
	You know, and it can be increased, like double capacity with modernization and everything, and there's a lot of dams that could be done with that, that applied.
	Secondly, Army Corps, and on these books I mentioned, the Army Corps of Engineers has a list of almost 2,000 dams and levees that could be, that are just strictly for irrigation now.
	But that they could, and they already exist, they don't have to be built or anything like that.
	Alright, point well taken.
	There's hydroelectric power out there to yet be yielded.
	We still need oil.
	And do you believe this crisis over oil is real or fabricated?
	Well, I believe that it's, I believe it's both.
	I believe that there is a conspiracy, but however, eventually the oil is either going to run out or it's going to be too expensive to extract.
	Yeah, and at what price?
	Would your life change?
	Roughly $4 a gallon, I would say, vastly.
	We do a lot of commuting in this country.
	Yes, we do.
	If necessary, and it came down to it, would you steal or even kill to feed your family?
	I wouldn't want to, but you know what, Art?
	The important thing isn't what I would do, it's what the guy next door would probably do.
	See, I might be a peaceful guy, but he's going to kill me, so I'd have to kill him to protect myself.
	So it doesn't matter what I'm saying, I'm hearing the caller say yes or no, but if half the country is going to kill Yes.
	I got it.
	It's a yes.
	Look, that's why I'm asking the question.
	victims of the army yes and and so
	and that's why i like the bottom line is uh... yes i i got it it's a yes i did that that look that's why i'm
	asking the question and so i understand it's not an easy question to answer
	but i i i think i am getting honest answers and so
	no matter whether it's some great conspiracy or it's really an oil
	shortage or both as he said when it finally gets down to it it's going to be the mad max world that everybody feared
	and you're going to be drawn into it whether you like it or not was his point to
	be issued Even if he should be of the half that wasn't intending to be violent, he would have to end up being in self-defense.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Good morning, Mr. Bale.
	How are you doing, sir?
	I'm doing all right.
	And where are you?
	I'm calling from Kentucky.
	I wanted to talk about... You're going to have to get close to the phone and yell at us.
	Okay, is that better?
	Ever so much, yes.
	Okay, very sorry.
	I've got several points or several questions that I have about the oil situation.
	Number one, I don't think it's as bad as it's being made to seem.
	I don't think it's as big of a crisis as we're being led to believe.
	Now, I know there's a crisis.
	I have a crisis every time I go to the gas pump and look at the price.
	And they have to come out and revive me because I've fainted.
	But I don't think it's as bad as they want to make it seem.
	If it is as bad, if they are running out of oil, like another caller asked, why aren't they looking for alternatives?
	They want to make money, so if they run out of oil, Aren't they going to run out of money?
	Maybe there isn't a viable alternative yet.
	I mean, there's a lot of things we can do.
	The last caller talked about more hydro dams, fine.
	Solar power, fine.
	Wind power, fine.
	But these are kind of local, and when you think of the scale required, not getting anywhere near what we need.
	And so if it gets down and dirty... Well, that's something else I wanted to talk about.
	If it does get down and dirty, if we're talking about The Mad Max world where it's just complete anarchy in the streets.
	Yes.
	I don't think it'll get to that point.
	The government, if you listen to the guests that you and George have on the show, we talk about the government wanting more control.
	They want to control our internet traffic, monitor it.
	They want ID tags.
	I mean, depending on who you listen to, they want to know where we're at every second of the day.
	If you go by that idea that the government wants more control, which we're being led to believe, do you think they're just going to turn the country over to anarchy, or are they going to have an answer for it?
	I don't think anybody ever turns something over to anarchy.
	Well, that's true.
	I didn't necessarily meant that they're just going to step back and say, okay.
	No, I think they would do everything they could, but if real anarchy broke out, there aren't enough police or military to stop it.
	Right, and so what I'm thinking is perhaps they'll do something before it even gets to that point that they will try to prevent that situation from ever arising to squash the problem before it presents itself.
	One would hope.
	I don't know what that would be.
	Do you?
	Uh, no.
	I do think that somebody's already got the answer, since I believe that it's more of a scare than... Do me a favor.
	Will you pass along my number?
	Because I want to have that person on the show.
	I will do that, but I believe that in some dark CEO boardroom, there's probably somebody with an answer saying, okay... Yeah, we know what it is, but let's use up all the oil first, and then we'll pull this one out of the bag.
	Man, I hope that's true.
	I know it's a popular opinion.
	It's very popular that there is some secret magic bullet, but it will not be employed.
	Until the very last drop of extremely expensive oil is gouged from our bleeding pockets.
	I hope that's true.
	But I, I don't know.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Yes, um, how are you, Mr. Bill?
	I've been listening.
	My name is Sla.
	I'm calling from Brooklyn, New York.
	Your name is Sla?
	Yes, Sla.
	That's a very unusual name.
	It's West African, excuse me.
	Okay.
	Anyway, um, The Department of Energy has, I know you have these guests on your show talking about alien technology, but they have alien technology that we can use the water in the ocean as an energy.
	They have a functioning... There's no proof of this.
	Well of course they're not going to say it exists because they don't want uh...
	foreign countries to copy the technology so they're gonna fit in value to
	existence but they have hydrogen fusion technology from alien craft that has been
	secured on the ground subterranean
	well-prepared well do you have to use a guest on the show mr gulf on i'm
	sure it doesn't sound like a good none of them have proven to me that
	underground somewhere lies that if you know alien technology that will save us
	from the whole No way they're going to bring you the documented proof.
	The government will not allow this information.
	Okay, minus that proof then, why do you believe this?
	I read the book, there's a book called Behold the Pale Horse that documents these subterranean Alien propulsion systems that the government has.
	You see what they're waiting for?
	They're waiting for the world to reach a point where it's like anarchy.
	This is one of the reasons why they did the assault weapons ban.
	They want to take the weapons away with the New World Order conspiracy with the United Nations and certain elements within the government.
	And then they want to go into the third world and take all their resources.
	And take all the stuff away from the poor people.
	Alien technology, huh?
	Buried in the ground, just waiting for the moment.
	Well, again, I hope so.
	But I wouldn't bet my butt on it.
	And I don't think you ought to bet yours either.
	It would be nice.
	It really would be nice.
	But I just don't think it's so.
	And I don't think there's any proof.
	And short of that proof, we have to operate as though it's not there.
	Western Rockies, you're on the air.
	Yes, Mr. Bell.
	Good evening.
	It's a pleasure to talk to you.
	I hear you on 3840 now and then.
	You know, I think it was Alex Jones on his website I was reading that the biggest user of petroleum in the United States is the Department of Defense.
	Yes, probably true.
	And he quoted, I believe it was something like 2.1 million barrels a day that they use.
	And I thought that was rather interesting, because, you know, you talk about going to war over oil.
	I think, depending on who's in office, who the president is, I think they do it in a heartbeat.
	So do I. You know?
	I honestly do, too, and most people, you know, I guess don't morally support such a thing, but, look, if it came down to the U.S.
	on its knees, and it could, if there really is an oil shortage, then I don't know.
	Countries go to war for economic reasons, and I think we would.
	I do, too.
	And, you know, I guess Canada, they have a tremendous amount of oil shale.
	And from what I understand, they've come up with some pretty good economical ways of separating it.
	Still in all those shales, like a secondary Uh, oil resource that's in the category of that oil which is harder and more expensive to get to.
	So, let's just say for example, that we had to depend on shale right now as our only source of oil.
	What do you imagine the price per gallon at the gas station would be?
	Just guess.
	Probably around $8 or $9 a gallon.
	And if gas costs $8 or $9 a gallon, what do you think the economic condition of the United States would be?
	Oh, not good.
	We would be in a deep depression.
	Oh, yeah.
	Well, you know, we'd have to change some things.
	Like go back to paper bags and, you know, stuff like that.
	But, you know, Stephen Greer has really, he's got contacts.
	And from what he says... I know, but that's the trouble, sir.
	So far, I really, I... Nobody has more respect for Stephen Greer than myself.
	But I've hosted him on the show now for years.
	And he has been in search of the Holy Grail of energy.
	Whether it has something to do, or not!
	With some sort of alien technology, or just some new technology that somebody in their basement has invented.
	He's been talking to people.
	He's had leads.
	He's been hot.
	He's been cold.
	He's had leads that have fallen apart.
	He's come on the show so excited he could hardly speak, and then been disappointed, and the Holy Grail has not yet appeared.
	International Line, you're on the air.
	From where are you calling, please?
	If I push the button.
	Now you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Where are you, sir?
	Actually, I'm calling from Canada.
	Canada.
	Okay.
	And I would like to say that I'm a supporter of the U.S.
	troops and think that they're, you know, doing a good job.
	Not like all Canadians here.
	Otherwise, probably.
	Well, let's qualify what you're saying.
	I don't think too many Canadians think the U.S.
	troops are doing a bad job.
	I think some Canadians don't think the U.S.
	policy is right.
	Big difference.
	And I'd like to also comment on the oil crisis.
	I do believe it is an oil crisis.
	I believe in the 70s we had an oil crisis.
	You're going to have to speak up good and loud.
	You don't think that it's real, or you do?
	No, I do think it's real, yes.
	Especially when China buys up 30% of the oil last year.
	Yes.
	That puts a tremendous amount of pressure on the global economy.
	Do you own a car?
	Do you drive?
	No, I don't, actually.
	Oh, you don't own a car?
	No.
	How incredible is that?
	In one hour, I've got two people that don't even own a car.
	Wow!
	How do you get around?
	Well, I use the transit system.
	It's pretty good in Vancouver here.
	Uh-huh.
	Okay.
	And it's kind of a necessity.
	I've been a student for the last three years.
	Um, you can't afford the parking here in Vancouver, basically.
	Huh.
	How much do you pay to participate in the transit system on a regular basis?
	Um, a bus transit ticket would run Canadian about $69 a month.
	$69 a month.
	How far would that have to go before... I mean, it's going to go up to... Everything's going to go up!
	Oh, yeah.
	If this is really true, what we're talking about, this shortage, this, you know, this next hard part of the oil to get to that's going to be so expensive, everything will go up in price.
	So the question is, how far would it have to go up before it would be untenable for you?
	I don't know.
	I think it has to be compared to cigarettes.
	Cigarettes?
	I'm a smoker, and I think I said, well, $3 will get up there, or $5, or $7.
	Now they're like $10 Canadian.
	What, a pack of cigarettes?
	Yep.
	A pack of cigarettes is $10?
	Yeah, and I'm still smoking.
	Holy mackerel!
	Money comes from somewhere, I don't know.
	And I see a lot of Hummers up here and a lot of big vehicles too.
	Not all so conservative up here.
	But in 1979 I used to work for an oil company, Fort St.
	you know, but in 1979 I used to work for an oil company for St. John, BC and basically
	there was a lot of natural gas fields that weren't on the books.
	So, whatever that company, however it was in their books, you know, it did not show as good fields.
	They were classed as dead fields, but... Well, you know, we were kind of talking about this a little bit earlier, domestic supplies, whatever the U.S.
	has left in the ground.
	We did peak, we'd gone past peak oil, like in 1970.
	But we've still got a fair amount of oil in the ground.
	I'm all in favor of leaving it there, and yours too, pretty much leaving it there and using up other oil around the world.
	No, that sounds good to me.
	It seems wise.
	I had heard, for example, that long before we would hit $55 per barrel, that the pumping in California and all around the nation would be going full tilt boogie, but it's not yet, really, is it?
	I mean, we're already at $55 a barrel, and you don't seem cranking up yet.
	So maybe that's the wrong price.
	Maybe it's got to be $75 a barrel, $100 a barrel, before it becomes interesting and productive to start our own wells up again to get what's left.
	I don't know.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air.
	This is Stephanie from Del Mar, California.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	I'm also an organic farmer.
	Oh, really?
	And I really like the Talk of anarchy.
	If you've ever traveled on Southern California roadways, I think we already have anarchy on our roadways.
	Yes, well, we do.
	Yes.
	And in terms of national food security, when I give talks on organic gardening and how to self-sustain yourself, the best thing that you can do for national food security is to buy local and grow local.
	And in Southern California, we now have Only two farms left on coastal San Diego that actually produce food.
	I am one of them.
	The other farms in the area are not organic and you must go far east in San Diego County to find farms anymore.
	And when those farmers, when their cost of transportation gets so great that they can't even take it to their local farmers markets anymore, they will supply food to their community.
	What will these bedroom communities do without any local food sources?
	What about me out here in the desert?
	That's exactly right.
	It is a problem, and that article directly addresses the subject of agriculture.
	Yes.
	And if you realize that the reason that we have surpluses and that we're feeding the world is that it's a petroleum-based industry.
	Absolutely.
	The majority of the food throughout the world now It's all produced with petroleum.
	That's right.
	And as that petroleum goes up in price, so will the average cost of every single item in the department store.
	Everything.
	The cotton that people wear on their backs.
	It takes almost a third of a pound of chemically produced products to produce a pound of cotton.
	Our whole world is based on petroleum.
	And unless people can take back more control of their lives, Do without a little less, cooperate with their neighbors more, create community gardens.
	I mean, even if you take two people that have completely different points of view on ideology or religion or whatever it is, if you have one neighbor that's responsible for growing tomatoes, and he may hate the guts of his other neighbor, but that neighbor is the one that's producing lettuce, don't you think those two people are going to get along a lot better?
	It has a lot of social implications to it.
	In terms of local production of food and cooperative production of food.
	In the same sense that firearms make for a more polite society.
	Hey, listen, you want to hold on through the break here?
	Yes, I will.
	Alright, good.
	Hold on.
	Can a guy from anywhere go to sleep before her and wake up a millionaire?
	Only in America!
	Can a kid without a set get a break and maybe grow up to be president?
	Only in America!
	Land of opportunity, yeah!
	Put a plastic girl like Ju-Paul For a poor boy like me
	In America And a kid who's washing cars
	Take a giant step and reach right Nothing but a heart
	Is never a thing It's on a heart that tears up all the way
	It's on a tear that's got a special place And I feel like he'll rise when I get here
	Nothing but a heart is never a thing It's on a heart that tears up all the way
	And I feel like he'll rise when I get here And I feel like he'll rise when I get here
	I got a lot of those heartaches I got a lot of those tears up
	Heartaches Tears up
	All the way Nothing but a heart is never a thing
	To talk with R. Feld, call the wildcard line at area code The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
	To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll free at 800-825-5033.
	To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll free at 800-825-5033.
	From west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
	International callers may reach Art by calling your in-country Sprint Access number, pressing
	Option 5, and dialing toll free, 800-893-0903.
	From coast to coast, and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM, with
	Art Bell.
	From the Detroit Free Press, March 25th, gas prices, the headline.
	Count yourself lucky, but push for real solutions.
	Here in car country, it's near impossible to see a silver lining in the eye-popping prices at the gas pump these days.
	But a glance around the globe makes it pretty clear that Metro Detroit motorists and Americans in general are more fortunate than one might believe.
	As this nation screams about paying an average $2.13 a gallon gas, Is through the roof in places like Italy.
	$6 a gallon.
	France, $5.60 a gallon.
	This tale of two continents is in no way dismissing the impact on the U.S.
	Where people are driving farther in larger cars that demand big gulps of gas.
	And in this region, the increases hurt even more because there is no other option to driving.
	Reliable mass transit remains a Motor City pipe dream.
	But it's well past time for all American motorists to understand just how much of a bargain they've enjoyed.
	Prices are only going to get worse as the popularity of cars grows in more populated parts of the world.
	In other words, the price concerns of U.S.
	drivers will continue to take a backseat to the growing gas-guzzling places like China and India.
	The newly minted middle class, which numbers in the millions in those countries, is snapping up cars fast as automakers can roll them out.
	Well, that's good for Detroit, I guess, right?
	And each of their purchases only drives the cost of crude oil, already in short supply around the world, that much higher.
	Combine that with the federal regulation requiring most states to switch to cleaner burning summer gas blends in April, and that explains why gas prices are moving up so fast lately.
	Like it or not, America's days of being in the driver's seat when it comes to gas prices are history.
	In metro Detroit, motorists would be better off pressing government leaders to embrace mass transit than to expect a return of prices of, say, $1.75 or even $1.90 a gallon.
	It's certainly an easier route than holding out hope that President Bush will come to the defense of drivers with an energy policy that amounts to more than efforts to drain the nation's reserves while walking a rather diplomatic tightrope with oil-producing countries.
	unfortunately the kind of forward-thinking american needs seems to be about as hard to find as a cheap
	gallon of gas rodney in san luis obispo actually not not a bad part of
	california kind of farming country there but nevertheless he says uh... and it
	might resonate with this young lady a r
	scary scary to think what'll happen here if the suit food supply
	should happen to us you know to the supermarkets
	would stop for more than a few days are Look, most of us produce absolutely nothing here anymore.
	So, he's right, isn't he?
	I mean, that's what you were saying, that you grow your own so you'd supply locally, but people further away, they'd probably be out of luck.
	That's absolutely right, and if you consider that the average item on a supermarket store has to travel somewhere around 1,400 petroleum miles to get there, you can just do basic math and figure out What food prices are going to be going to?
	Now, you see, I didn't know that.
	Is that true?
	The average item travels 1,400 petroleum miles?
	That's correct.
	That's correct.
	Holy mackerel!
	Well, when you consider how NAFTA and our globalization has brought down barriers for importing food into the United States, if a merchandiser can buy, for example, corn, Much cheaper coming out of Mexico where we do not even have the same regulations in terms of the chemicals that can be applied to it.
	That merchandiser will buy it from there, import it with subsidized cheap petroleum products, and bypass the local pharma.
	So about this crisis, you think it's real?
	You do.
	At what pump price?
	I'm assuming that you have a car or vehicles and do buy gas occasionally?
	That's correct.
	And at what price would your life begin?
	I would agree with another one of your callers that it would be somewhere around five to six dollars.
	In other words, where Europe is now.
	Would you steal or kill if you had to to feed your family?
	I mean, your answer is going to be, I'd grow my own.
	Well, actually, it's the other way around.
	I have taken great precautions over the years.
	To make sure that I am not identifiable from the road as a food producing farm, and I have made landscaping precautions against what I fear is going to be coming.
	Oh my God.
	Yes.
	I'm not the only one.
	We farmers that talk speak this language among ourselves.
	I'm very thankful you came on the air this morning.
	Do you think the United States If it needed to do so, would go to war in a second for energy?
	I think we have been.
	Good answer.
	Thank you so very much.
	What a good call.
	She's right.
	We already have been.
	I suppose there are other geopolitical reasons to be in the middle of the Middle East, but you can bet oil is definitely one of them.
	That was a good call.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi, Art.
	Hi.
	This is Jim in Colorado.
	Yo, Jim.
	Hey Art, do you ever feel like that guy on the movie Network that you're mad a second you're not going to take this anymore?
	Yeah, sure.
	You know what I'm angry about?
	The fact that yes, this energy crisis is real, but it's actually coming upon us like 20 or 30 years premature, and the American people, and obviously your show hasn't had anybody on to say anything about what the real true problem is, and it's not the availability of crude oil, it's our ability to refine it.
	And ship it in pipelines around our own country because our refinery systems and our pipelines are in disrepair.
	And there was a Saudi royal on TV just the other day that said, look, you know, it's not a problem with, you know, availability of crude.
	We can send you as much as you can handle, but it's the fact that you cannot refine it.
	So what's the use?
	He said that right on national TV.
	We are not able to refine enough oil.
	Which is the fault of who knows who?
	Well, nobody wants a refinery in their backyard, sir.
	Right, but that's the reason, Art.
	Not my backyard.
	Build it over there, behind his house.
	Yeah, but Art, the existing refineries that we have in our nation have been allowed to be just going to like a third world condition, Art.
	That's the reason why we are in this energy crisis.
	Not because the crude oil is not available.
	And yes, the peak oil thing and everything you read from that article is true.
	And it would eventually grab a hold of us.
	Everything you said was true.
	But it's premature.
	It should not have happened to us for 20 or 30 or who knows how long.
	We should be able to... And yet the effects of it are beginning now.
	I mean, look at the gas prices.
	We go two or three steps forward, one step back, and everybody goes, whew!
	And then we go two steps forward again.
	Gas prices are very quickly going to be to the point where, you know, it's causing people to go bust.
	But am I ringing through here?
	It's the number one problem, Art.
	I hope someone that has authority in this, and I'm just a layman, but from what I've heard the number one problem is our inability to refine the crude that we could be sent.
	Saudi Arabia could send us As much as we could ask for.
	Well, inexplicably, we haven't built new refineries.
	The ones we have are getting old.
	In fact, the explosion they had down in Texas the other day, part of it, I guess, was, you know, safety and old stuff.
	And I don't know, they'll make some determination, but it is old stuff.
	And there's not much of it.
	And I heard just several years ago, just on a sideline story, when I really wasn't even paying attention to the energy crisis, you know, particular, there's some problems somewhere around Illinois and the Mississippi River where there's broken pipes.
	There's like a flow problem of our oil in this nation.
	Alright, well no matter what it is, if it comes down to Mad Max time, would you kill or steal if necessary to feed your family?
	Oh yes I would, but not people.
	I'd kill animals.
	It depends on if you're talking about people who are going to be stuck in their suburban homes or people who are willing and are planning on being nomadic.
	In Colorado, I would just head to the hills and Be a hunter and a gatherer.
	Right back to the old stone age or somewhere.
	Well, if I had to.
	But my personal goal as a Christian is to have an underground communication with my fellow Christian brothers and we can survive with each other.
	But that's a totally different subject.
	But if you're talking about just the average suburban person in their house, if they're going to stay put, they're going to be forcing themselves to be in a position where they're going to have to kill or defend themselves.
	And kill, you know what I mean?
	Yes.
	You know, the right thing to do is to plan ahead like that lady, the previous caller, you know, preparing her farm.
	Yeah, but you heard her attitude, though.
	I mean, her attitude was she's already taken steps to hide what she's doing.
	She knows what it's going to come down to.
	Oh yeah, that's what we have to do.
	But if people are going to sit in their suburban homes and depend on The two boxes of water that they buy from King Soopers every month and they think they're doing good and stocking up and everything.
	If they're depending on that, they are going to live in the Mad Max scenario.
	Appreciate your call, sir.
	Thank you very much.
	You know, most people are going to stick it out in their suburban homes, right?
	One of the points made in the article was about suburbia.
	I forget exactly what he said, but he said it's going to be regarded as one of the biggest tragic things that America ever did was East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hi, Larry.
	uh...
	the ccd suburbia will come to be regarded as the greatest miss allocation of
	resources in the history of the world it has a tragic
	destiny east of the rockies you're on the air
	i heard it's very connected to new york uh... that i can't afford my partner but the uh... refineries
	there but uh...
	i don't think a lot of people are a lot of environmentalism is actually
	affecting the price of oil and the price of gasoline.
	Yeah, I wonder how much it actually is.
	Do you know?
	Actually, I'll give you a good example here.
	I'm a truck driver.
	An independent truck driver.
	I had a 1994 truck, and I was getting approximately 7 miles a gallon.
	I bought a 2003, and I was getting 5.7.
	So when I took it in the mechanic, because that just didn't seem right, because it was an identical truck, he told me that in order to pass the environmental emissions, they had to set the truck up so it would not completely burn the fuel, and instead of blowing smoke out the stack, it makes soot and drops into your lubricating oil.
	So now you're burning more fuel, and you're changing your lubricating oil choices often.
	Uh, you know, as a trucker, especially as an independent trucker, that means you buy your own fuel, right?
	Yeah.
	Oh, baby.
	And I pay for my own lubricating oil, so up to my expenses, pretty well 25%.
	25%?
	Pretty close.
	Are you able to pass that on, or what do you do with that 25%?
	That's a hell of a big bite.
	I'm able to pass on probably 35 to 40% of the 25%.
	Well, that's still a pretty big bite out of you.
	It is still a pretty big bite.
	And if it doubles and triples that, at what point do you have to park your truck and say it's over, baby?
	I'm getting close to that point now.
	You are?
	Yeah.
	Well, between the taxes that we're paying and everything else, it's just, they want
	your income tax, they want your fuel tax, they want your highway tax, which adds a lot
	onto the expenses as well, and then they start adding fuel on, and the rates just aren't
	keeping up.
	Well, that's frightening.
	Do you think that most independents are in the kind of place you are?
	And I really shouldn't limit it to that.
	I mean, even the big trucking companies, they're really, by scale, facing the same thing.
	Well, if you take a mile per gallon and multiply it by a hundred trucks, you can just imagine what they're spending extra.
	Yeah, I can.
	The independents, you guys, are going to fall first, of course.
	Yeah, we'll end up driving for the big guy.
	Is that the decision you would make?
	That would probably be the only decision I could make because, to be quite honest, there are manufacturing jobs aren't around anymore that pay what I can make out here.
	Even driving for somebody else.
	You think this whole thing's real or put on?
	I think pretty well put on.
	And the proof being, like he said, the refineries are running right now at near 100% capacity.
	Right.
	So if you pumped another 20 million barrels of oil a day, but we can't refine it, it can't get to the stations, it can't get to the pumps, because they can't refine it fast enough.
	Well, no matter whether it's a big conspiracy or not, if it gets down to the Mad Max place, would you steal or kill to feed your own family if you had to?
	In a heartbeat.
	Okay, I really appreciate your call.
	Thank you.
	In a heartbeat.
	That's what he said.
	In a heartbeat.
	And I would say, I don't know, what, 50, 60% of the people have basically said that.
	Maybe not in a heartbeat, but said the same thing.
	That's a pretty sobering thought, isn't it?
	Very sobering thought, actually.
	Well, Mr. The Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Oh, good morning.
	Hi.
	This is Easter.
	What a day, huh?
	Yes, what an Easter.
	What is your first name?
	They call me the Mercury Man, basically.
	Why?
	I'm out here in Seattle, Washington.
	And about seven years ago, you had a guest on Dr. Randall Eaton.
	Yes.
	And that night, it was like the orchestra sent a message to you basically saying that we had pretty well, you know, trashed the planet.
	And from that time on, kind of a This steam started running through the show, and so we started to see that the guests and everybody who worked on brain research and so on and so forth never really brought up the issue of mercury when it was all around us, and it's listed as the ultimate neurological poison.
	What does this have to do with gas and oil?
	Well, because it's all loaded with mercury.
	That's true, I guess.
	Yeah, and the article you just read, he mentioned Mercury.
	Yes, you did.
	You're burning the Mad Hatter's disease.
	Plus, it's the ultimate carcinogen.
	So, you're burning like so many gallons of cancer per mile.
	What we're griping about is how much we have to pay a gallon for cancer.
	Yeah, I suppose you could make the argument that-a-way.
	So, we wrote a book based on this from what the guests were saying.
	And tried to bring it to the end so we had some way to have some hope for getting out of this because mercury is a poison and has a shelf life.
	It's listed as eternal.
	Well, what is the way to get out of it?
	Well, I would imagine that the research and the Stanford pods show us that we're going to have to basically create a miracle.
	And so, when you were interviewing Dr. Eaton, You had a couple callers call in that said that orcas had the ability to heal, like with autistic children.
	You know, I should say, I remember now all of that, the orcas and all the rest of it.
	I think it's all wonderful and warm and fuzzy feeling, but I don't think that it really addresses the question we're dealing with here.
	And I don't think the orcas are going to save the world for us, nor make the decisions about petroleum and wars and all the rest of that for us.
	So as interesting as Dr. Eden was to listen to with respect to that subject, I think that it's completely separate from this.
	International Line, you're on the air, hello.
	Yes, hi, I'm calling from Montreal.
	Montreal, okay, welcome.
	One of the reasons I'm calling, I have to be honest with you, Mr. Bell, is there was an earlier call from Canada.
	I believe it was Toronto.
	Yes, you're going to have to yell at us.
	You're not too loud.
	Oh, I'm sorry.
	I'll speak up.
	From Toronto, yes.
	Yeah, there was an earlier call from Toronto, and you responded towards the end saying, thank you for your Canadian call.
	Yes.
	But with a sarcastic tone.
	I'm wondering what exactly you meant by that.
	Well, exactly.
	There was intended to be a little bit of sarcasm there.
	He was coming down on us.
	And I'm telling you, and I'm telling you, he was coming down on Americans pretty hard.
	So I simply mentioned that thank you for your Canadian perspective call.
	But if you want to echo what he said, go ahead.
	No, to be quite honest, it's not exactly that I want to echo what he said, because I don't necessarily support everything he said, but I do Living in this country, obviously with an outsider perspective, in terms of the United States, I understand where he's coming from.
	And quite frankly, I think that people in your country miss out on that opportunity to look at the big picture, if you will.
	I mean, Europeans have that advantage, Asians have that advantage, and Canadians and I guess Mexicans have that advantage.
	Well, you're so hard to hear.
	You're going to have to yell, sir.
	Yell at us!
	Okay, I'm sorry.
	I'm saying that, unfortunately, sometimes for citizens of the United States, you don't have the advantage of being able to see the big picture.
	That's not necessarily your fault.
	Like I say, the advantage that Canada and Mexico have, the Europeans have, and Asians have.
	And I'm not calling because I'm anti-American at all.
	That's not the point.
	And I don't think that's what the other caller was trying to get across.
	But I do think that it's a problem for the entire world.
	All right, I'll tell you what, I'm at a break point.
	Would you do me a favor and hold on there in Canada?
	Can you hold on?
	I can do that.
	All right, good, hold on.
	Yeah, baby.
	From the high desert, this is Coast to Coast AM.
	The mountains high and the valleys so deep, can't get enough to live for the night.
	I was lonely then, I couldn't sleep, the night that you came, the night that you came.
	The way you bathed in the heart of every schoolgirl, loved me tender, even crying in the air.
	You made me feel so sweet and true, I was wanting more, it made me want more.
	Black belt, and I got a cheeky boy smile, black belt and I like the snow in the southern skies.
	A new religion that'll bring us to peace Black velvet if you please
	Do talk with Art Bell. Call the wildcard line at area...
	The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
	To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll free at 800-825-5033.
	line is area code 775-727-1222. To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll
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	may reach Art Bell by calling your in-country Sprint Access number, pressing option 5 and
	dialing toll free 800-893-0903.
	From coast to coast and worldwide on the Internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	It might become a new religion indeed.
	Hold it right there.
	We'll be right back to our very patient Canadian man.
	Remember the other day I had Willie Nelson on the show?
	Well, CNN headline, uh, Bless Their Hearts a week later had a, I don't know, four or five minute piece on Willie.
	I wonder if you've seen that.
	They're running it currently on CNN headline news and I'm kind of proud of that because I think it probably sprang from what we did on the air the week previous.
	Now, back to our extremely patient Canadian caller.
	You referred to me as patient, yet if you only knew how fast I was pacing back and forth across the room.
	Were you pacing?
	No, I'm kidding.
	Alright, well listen, you were saying basically that in America we don't get the big picture, and also, lay it on us, what is the big picture?
	Well, that's a lot of pressure to put on me, but I can do the best I can.
	You kind of gave an example of that when you responded to that other caller.
	And I think what he was trying to get across was that in a lot of ways, like it or not, the rest of the world is frustrated with the United States.
	That is a fact.
	Now, not to sugarcoat things, but with being the most powerful nation on Earth comes tremendous responsibility.
	Not just from your government, but also from citizens.
	And we're at a crucial point now.
	We are approaching the end times.
	And I don't want to kind of lay this all on you, but I did happen to respond to that little Canadian caller.
	I don't mind.
	And it's exactly that kind of, and I'm not touching, not at all, but that kind of attitude for too long has been prevalent in the United States.
	And that's exactly What's getting you into the trouble that you are in now and that you have been in the past?
	Our ugly Americanism.
	No, no, well, you... Well, yes.
	And I'm just, and again, I'm not anti-American.
	No, that's okay, don't hold back.
	No, I'm not intending to, otherwise I wouldn't have phoned.
	But I mean, that is what you're saying in a more... Well, I can take it a step further.
	Okay.
	No doubt.
	I mean, you take a look at the Schiavo case.
	This is a tremendous precedent.
	If you start us on the Schiavo case, I'm doomed.
	No, no, no, no, no.
	I'm not... This isn't what... I did happen to hear last evening.
	I don't listen to the program all the time, but I did happen to hear some of the things you were speaking about, and it has absolutely nothing to do with where I'm going.
	The reason that I bring that up is that, like I say, with power comes tremendous responsibility, and like I say, outsiders looking into the United States are frustrated because they don't feel that there is enough being done You know, in terms of the citizenry.
	If you look at where we are now, like I say, essentially in this space is Babylon.
	That's where we are.
	And when I bring up the Shiavo case, I only reference it because the precedent that's being set, the euthanasia precedent, is... I mean, this is New World Order, we're progressing down that path, and that's exactly what this is.
	And aside from three or four protesters outside of that hospital, there's nothing.
	Yet when O.J.
	Simpson is let off a murder, there are riots.
	And I realize they're two entirely different things, but that illustrates exactly what is going on and how far citizens are completely... In other words, something like this could never happen anywhere but the U.S., huh?
	No, that's not what I'm saying at all.
	Well, it is sort of.
	I mean, you're pointing that out as an example of what we're doing here in the United States.
	I speak of the New World Order and one world government.
	That doesn't just have to do with the United States.
	What I'm saying is that Bush and his cronies and the entire Congress are all in on it.
	That's what I'm saying.
	Alright, thank you very much.
	For one thing, you know, if you really want to look at what President Bush has done, he's been on the side of life here.
	Not on the so-called new world order, population reduction, let's just whisk him away side.
	He hasn't been on that side at all, so I don't know why you're coming down on him for that.
	Alright, now look.
	Biodiesel.
	The last time, when I had Willie on, I got a lot of fast replies saying, oh yeah, but what will it do to the environment?
	I mean, it seems so reasonable, doesn't it, biodiesel?
	But, oh, it'll screw up the environment, they said.
	Well, that's wrong.
	Here are the facts.
	Here are some facts.
	Biodiesel reduces carbon dioxide exhaust emissions by up to 80%.
	Biodiesel produces 100% less sulfur dioxide than petroleum-based diesel, and sulfur dioxide is the major component of acid rain.
	Biodiesel reduces exhaust smoke.
	Particulants, emissions, up to 75%.
	So the usual black cloud associated with diesel engines, gone.
	The smell of biodiesel, far more pleasant than petroleum-based products, sometimes smelling like popcorn or donuts if the fuel is made from a waste vegetable oil feedstock of some sort.
	Biodiesel smells better than diesel fuel, so it is a pleasant experience.
	Refilling the vehicle's tank.
	Mmm, good.
	Biodiesel is much easier to handle, does not require mechanics to use barrier cream on their hands to protect their skin from cracking or redness.
	Biodiesel is much less dangerous to put in a vehicle's fuel tank.
	As a flash point, biodiesel is about 150 degrees centigrade.
	300 Fahrenheit as opposed to petroleum diesel, which is at about plus or minus 70.
	Hmm.
	Biodiesel degrades about four times faster than petroleum diesel after spillage, with most of a spill broken down after 28 days.
	That's interesting.
	Biodiesel provides significant lubricity improvement over petroleum, and so forth and so on.
	So those are a few stats about the reality of biodiesel.
	I just thought you ought to know.
	I didn't have that information for you at the time.
	But even all of that being true, biodiesel, according to the article, is not, by Howard Kunstler, is not going to sufficiently... In fact, it's a net loser.
	He says that the amount of petroleum and energy required to do the farming and the... I don't know, the... you know, the fertilizer and everything, that's all petroleum-based, so you might as well burn that product first to transport yourself.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Yes, hi.
	Yes, hi.
	I'm Nick, calling from Shelbyville, Indiana.
	Yes, sir.
	I've got a couple of comments real quick.
	Alright.
	I will get off here and let everybody else get a chance.
	My first comment is that I don't want to say that I'm a believer in a conspiracy theory, but absolute power corrupts absolutely.
	And, you know, when you get people in there and they want to decide what kind of price they want to make for the gas and the oil and everything else, You know, we as middle class, or as, you know, just consumers, we have to pay for whatever they decide to do.
	And I just want to answer your question.
	Oh, do you?
	Okay, good.
	Let's go through them then.
	Do you believe the crisis is real?
	Yes, sir.
	You do?
	Okay.
	By the way, a slim majority, but definitely a majority, does believe it's real.
	Alright, number two.
	Do you think that most Americans can accept this much reality?
	That we're facing this size of a crisis?
	Can they be told the truth?
	I would say no.
	At what pump price?
	Four dollars a gallon.
	And things begin to go south for you?
	Yes, sir.
	If you had to, would you steal or kill to feed your family?
	I don't believe in stealing or killing.
	Yes, but if your family was starving to death?
	Yes, I would.
	That's the truth, because I would have to protect my children.
	And I'm sure that every father out there would do the same for their children.
	I'm pretty sure, too.
	I've been getting a lot of really good, honest answers like yours this morning, and I appreciate it, because it means something.
	What about the bigger picture?
	Would you support the United States in a war to obtain energy if we were on our knees?
	You know, I have to be honest with this one and say yes, too.
	Yes.
	Yeah.
	I have to say yes.
	I hope that we, as human beings, can start thinking outside the box and come up with a different energy source than what we're currently using.
	So do I.
	And it would just be tremendously awful if we can't, because we're not going to ever get anywhere using hydrocarbons.
	We're surely never going to, you know, do space travel or anything else using hydrocarbons.
	You know, we're going to have to think outside the box and think with different physics.
	Well, I don't care what people say, and they can interpret this as bush bashing if they want, but I'm not a bush basher.
	I'm really not.
	However, whatever government, whatever president we have, Right now we should be doing the hell out of this biodiesel thing.
	We should be doing wind power and solar power.
	We should be doing this new paint that you can paint on homes for solar power that comes from nanotechnology and all of these other things.
	This new spark plug that I'm hearing about.
	Now there's a million different things we could be doing and it's government's job because this is all a matter You know, when I get answers from somebody like you about, yeah, I'd steal or kill if I had to, then it's a national security issue to keep this country ticking.
	And that makes it the government's job to do what it can do in its realm to start pointing us in a new direction now!
	Thanks for the call.
	Thank you.
	Take care.
	That's what I think.
	And yes, I'm complaining about the current administration's lack of apparent attention to something of this magnitude.
	But I promise you, I'm not... I kind of like President Bush in most ways.
	To be honest with you, I'm not a Bush basher.
	This would apply to any president who would be in office right now.
	And it applies to those who have been in office previously.
	Some gave lip service.
	A few put solar panels on the White House.
	Others came along and had them taken back down again.
	The direction for our nation as a matter of national security of the highest priority Good morning, Art.
	Good morning, sir.
	Let me give you a quote from a movie and see if you can tell me what movie this comes from.
	I'm not good at that, but sure.
	Well, you will get this one, I believe.
	Money, not morality, is the principal commerce of all civilized nations.
	I have no idea what movie it came from, but it's absolutely... That was a Thomas Jefferson quote from the movie The Formula, starring Marlon Brando and George C. Scott.
	But I was going to say, it's absolutely true.
	It is true.
	You know, the Genesis Project, which was actually called the Genesis Project, was what the Germans were doing during World War II.
	And that was the formula for synthetic petroleum.
	And, you know, I'm sure you've heard, of course you've been in this business for years, you've heard many people say, and many of your guests say, that there's a formula for synthetic petroleum.
	Maybe.
	Well, look here, on your question... I've heard a lot of things said, man.
	I've heard about the 150 mile carburetor.
	I've heard about... Oh, I've heard... Hey, listen.
	Hey, we're talking gas from regular water.
	I've heard all that, yeah.
	But I haven't seen it.
	I haven't seen it, though.
	No.
	Have you?
	No, I never will.
	Well, okay.
	But look here, the crisis is real.
	Yeah.
	Alright then.
	Or as reality goes.
	Yeah, it's real.
	Can the American people accept that?
	No.
	No?
	No.
	My price?
	Yeah.
	I'm up late this evening doing my income tax.
	Last year I spent $16,000 on fueling with my business.
	You're not in a good frame of mind at all then.
	Oh no, I had a right of checker tonight.
	Steal and kill, people are doing that already.
	It will get worse.
	Support the war?
	We've gone to Iraq twice to protect our oil.
	It's already going on.
	Let me ask you a question.
	You had a guest on that said the reason that we went into Iraq was because of the conversion from American dollars to Euro dollars.
	Do you remember that?
	Yeah, I remember.
	What do you think of that?
	I don't think that's the reason we went to Iraq.
	Well, no.
	Do you think that's one of the reasons?
	Maybe.
	Maybe one of them.
	I don't know.
	Do you think if the U.S.
	dollar went to the euro, in other words, instead of using the United States dollar and go to the euro dollar, which is $1.38 today, I believe, that would really affect us, wouldn't it?
	Yes.
	Yes, and you know, I live in a narrow little world.
	I'm a ham radio operator.
	I just watched one of the best-selling radios in the world for ham radio operators.
	Kind of an entry-level medium.
	Actually, one of the best radios ever made.
	Go from a price that was, well, it was a transceiver, and it was made in, it's made, was made, is made in Japan.
	at the low point it was selling for seven hundred and six dollars a clue to
	its manufacture perhaps uh... you'd just uh... at the price just went up to nine
	hundred and fifty dollars nine hundred
	$950.
	And the stories are legion that we're getting, that it's the yen versus the dollar versus the euro.
	But specifically in this case, the yen versus the dollar difference.
	So prices are already taking leaps and bounds and jumps and it's incredible.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Yeah, that's really wild that you had this guy on about this fuel situation.
	Chemical, because that's exactly what I was going to talk about.
	What?
	Well, suppose there was a guy in the fifties that lived, and he was a chemist.
	And this guy worked for Halliburton, of all things.
	And the kids around the neighborhood, this guy was always tinkering around in his garage.
	And we had motor scooters.
	The guy says, come over here, I'm going to show you something.
	He takes some water and some chemicals and puts it together and it fuses around and then all of a sudden it smells like gasoline.
	And he pours it in a motorcycle and says, now ride your motorcycle.
	And it ran on it.
	And after some more refining, when we progressed to where we have a 55 Chevy, He says, here, let's try it in your 55 Chevy.
	So we fill up the tank.
	Of all things, it runs on it.
	What happened to this man?
	That's another story.
	This guy is a single guy.
	So what became of him?
	He tried to do something with this.
	they come in and confiscated all of this stuff took it away at all and
	do you believe you believe all this i believe it
	yeah i believe it you know
	and they've made threats on it uh... he put out
	uh... well they can't look they can't kill you you're on the phone to the
	first two different sets of the manuals manifest ok so did you get one of them
	i don't know who has a You don't.
	I know they exist.
	So in other words, somewhere out there there's a way to turn water into gas.
	Yeah, they exist.
	I know they exist, okay?
	You don't know that because you don't have a manual.
	He said if something was to happen to him, hang on to it because as long as there's plenty of fuel, this will never let No, but you don't have the manual.
	You don't have it, though.
	So, who did he tell this to?
	Not you?
	Well, he told it to a group of us.
	A group of you.
	And we still know who each other are.
	You do.
	And where?
	But you don't know where the manual is.
	Oh, I know where it is.
	Oh, you do know where it is?
	Yes, I do.
	You must have a death wish calling a talk show like this with a story like that.
	How do we get that out without I ended up in the same problem he had.
	I imagine a big oil truck rolled over him or something, right?
	I don't know what happened to him.
	The equivalent of that.
	He ceased to come home and they sold his house.
	Somebody sold his house.
	We never saw him for a while.
	You know, I have to be skeptical about these kinds of claims.
	I'm sure you would, but how would you get something like that?
	That was my question.
	In other words, assuming you have the manual, how would you get it out?
	You have an answer for that?
	No.
	No, I don't.
	I don't.
	how would you get it out without it was a very early he walked up here
	you have an answer for that no i don't
	i don't uh... i had given a little fought uh... about it
	then maybe i mean we've got the internet i suppose publicizing this manual
	auto but uh...
	worldwide Well, that would be a good start.
	I mean, just publicize it worldwide.
	How about that?
	Yeah, I guess that's possible.
	Go to an internet cafe somewhere?
	Buy a little time?
	Well, don't you want to save the world?
	Well, both.
	I'd like to make something, too.
	Well, I would imagine, if verified, such a thing would be worth a very great deal of money.
	Of course, you know, when you went up to Larry King or whoever and said, look, uh... Yeah, right.
	So, I wanted just to hear what you would say.
	I don't know now.
	You want to make money?
	Look, I've got to go.
	You want to make money with it?
	If you don't want to make money, then fine.
	Publish it on the Internet.
	Give it to the world.
	The eagle flies, rode his wings across autumn skies.
	Kissed the sun, touched the moon, but he left me much too soon.
	His ladybird, he left his ladybird.
	Lady Bird, come on down.
	I'm here waiting on the ground.
	Lady Bird, I'll treat you good.
	Lady Bird, I wish you would...
	...and I wish you would...
	...suffocate...
	...Romeo...
	White Bird must fly...
	...or she will die...
	White bird must fly, or she will die.
	The sun sets warm, the sun sets cold.
	The sun sets low, clouds fall high, the earth turns slow, and the end of time do always blow.
	And she must fly, she must fly, she must fly.
	To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 7.
	The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
	To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll free at 800-825-5033.
	line is area code 775-727-1222. To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll-free
	at 800-825-5033. From west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
	It is.
	And if you're just tuning in, we've been hours on oil.
	And I've got a number of questions, which I'm fully prepared to hit you with.
	filing toll-free, 800-893-0903.
	From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	It is, and if you're just tuning in, we've been hours on oil, and I've got a number of
	questions which I'm fully prepared to hit you with, and they are in order.
	Do you believe the crisis as outlined, and I did that in the first hour of the program,
	you might not have heard it if you just joined us, but basically the bottom line is we're
	running out of oil.
	Do you believe that's true, number one?
	And if you do, at what pump price would your current lifestyle be unsustainable?
	Do you think most Americans can accept this kind of reality, this harsh reality, if they were actually told about it?
	I mean, I'm only Art Bell that can say, hey, UFO guy, he's crazy as a loon.
	None of that's true.
	If it was really announced by somebody in authority that we were in fact, the world is in fact, running out of oil, and the people believed it, could they accept that kind of harsh reality?
	Would you steal or kill to feed your family if it came to that?
	And then finally, do you support the U.S.
	going to war For energy supplies, which is the same as question number four, would you steal a kill to feed your family?
	It's just applying it to the entire nation.
	back in a moment i can get away with discussing this kind of thing on
	national radio because exactly because art bella
	art bells a ufo guy right That's my typecast burden to live with, and I'll always have it.
	Which makes it easy for people to say, well, yeah, the UFO guy.
	And to some extent, I mean, even Rolling Stone Magazine is where this article came from.
	Brilliant article, in my opinion.
	And, you know, I want to take a second to officially invite its author, James Howard Koestler, on the program, as a guest.
	Absolutely would make a superb guest, wouldn't he?
	I didn't read you all of the article.
	I left lots of good parts out.
	You should go to Rolling Stone and read this article.
	In the meantime, he's officially invited.
	My words, as a guest, love to have him on.
	This is one hot mama of a topic.
	There's no question about it.
	And it provoked these questions that I cooked up.
	Hard questions.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Top of the morning.
	Yes, good morning, Art.
	This is Joe in L.A.
	Yes, sir.
	Fantastic topic, Art.
	It is, yes.
	You know, one thing that I think sometimes gets missed, you know, we could look at the problem differently.
	I remember as a kid, you'd get an electric train set or a racing car, a slug car, and why couldn't we change the transportation system so that we had an electric grid in the road and then our cars could be electric and basically zip
	between LA and Vegas.
	Right now we're trying to do it with fuel cells, which we're hauling around thousands of pounds of batteries and so
	forth.
	Why not change the entire infrastructure?
	Okay, I see where you're coming from, but still you've got to propel car ABC and D millions of them from here to there.
	And that's going to cost a lot of energy, right?
	Yes, it would.
	But we have a lot of coal in this country.
	We have, you know, there's still a lot of oil.
	But we could generate electricity using it more efficiently.
	Use, you know, pollution controls.
	You know, millions of dollars worth of pollution controls to really get it clean.
	Electricity and just be more... And according to this trucker that called a little while ago, every emission control they put on a car, that reduces the mileage that it gets.
	Or truck.
	Yes, yes.
	And I think on... But if we use this on coal plants or electric generators, that would be one thing.
	I think it really comes down to pound for pound.
	Why don't we move a thousand pounds to persons in a small vehicle?
	uh... at a thousand pounds instead of uh... five thousand pounds it takes five
	times as much energy basically to do that all of these things are things i
	guess we ought to be get our butts busy with right now do you believe the energy
	crisis israel uh... yes absolutely uh... right now we're in a bit of a
	crisis but we're on the downward slope we have
	maybe twenty thirty years of oil left That was the thrust of this article, but you know, the other thrust was that even before we get to the end of the oil, the real usable oil, we're going to be well into crisis.
	In other words, pump crisis.
	Yes.
	And the Canadian who was talking about how they've got to heat their homes with oil.
	I mean, they've got to do that or freeze to death.
	They admitted per capita they use more.
	And we just need to be a lot smarter.
	You know, in World War II, people were able to get organized.
	They saw it as a crisis, and it was a matter of life and death, and that's what this is going to come down to.
	In a lot of ways, we've forgotten those kind of hard times a long time ago.
	At what pump price would your current lifestyle be turned to dog poop?
	Well, I think $5.
	I have four cars in my household now, with insurance, and just keeping them running.
	But yeah, $5 a gallon.
	We're going to start riding bikes or something.
	If it came down to a Mad Max kind of deal, would you be prepared to steal or even kill to protect my family?
	I'd do what it took to protect my family.
	As you hear more and more people honestly admitting that this morning, We've got to figure out a way not to get to this place or it's going to be exactly what we're hearing this morning.
	Exactly.
	We need to work together instead of having to go to the other option.
	Thank you so much for your call.
	You know, you have to listen to these people and what they're saying.
	You have to understand the gravity of what you're hearing.
	I know it's a hard question but you are getting honest answers and what it means is That either we figure this out one way or the other, or that is what is dead ahead for all of us.
	Dead ahead for all of us.
	Think about it.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Good morning, Art.
	This is Sean in Alabama.
	I'm listening on XM Channel 165.
	Good old XM, yes sir.
	Yeah, if it wasn't for that, I wouldn't be able to listen at all.
	Right.
	But I think what we're Getting ready here in the short term to have to face up to is the result of short-sightedness on the part of humanity as a whole.
	You know, back a hundred years or so ago when the combustion engines and the world started getting itself addicted on oil and we're all in love with the power and the The way that it eased our lives and everything, and no one ever stopped to consider what the long-term ramifications of building up a world economy that depends on this fuel source
	Well, let's take what you've said.
	We're not long-term thinkers, and I don't know how we change that.
	Our CEOs can't think past the next quarter.
	Our politicians, for the most part, can't think past four years, max.
	So, how do we develop long-term thinking?
	Well, honestly, it's at the point now, I don't know if we have enough time left to be able to develop long-term thinking.
	It's not just our cars that depend on gas or the lights.
	I mean the food supply itself.
	I know.
	And, you know, the only reason we have six billion plus people on the planet is because of The power that we get from oil to be able to transport foods quickly, to keep them cold, to keep them from spoiling.
	Dead right.
	And at any given time in this country, we've only got about, what, three days worth of food on reserve?
	Something like that.
	And, uh, you know, I think that the crisis is real, and it's not looking good, because I don't see any people in the world just quietly going back into the
	Stone Age I don't either and So I'm it's if they don't you know barring some
	technological miracle that that solves the crisis here in the next
	like that manual in years, you know I It's not looking too good for for the future. I came down
	to it the the very hard question Well, I mean, the honest answer is, yeah.
	No one likes to think about it, but you're not going to sit there and watch your family and your loved ones starve and die.
	You're going to do what you have to do.
	And the same goes with countries.
	Countries aren't going to sit by and watch their way of life and their economy completely collapse and fall down around their ears, you know?
	That's right.
	That's why countries go to war.
	And the thing is now that, you know, thanks in part to the power that we gain from oil, we've got the ability with weapons that can completely destroy the planet.
	And if we do hit that pinch and we don't find a way out of it, Those weapons are going to be used.
	God help us if it gets to that.
	Yeah, that would be the name in use, alright.
	Thank you very much for the call.
	Alright, you have a good night.
	Right, you too.
	And I hope this is sort of sinking in.
	It certainly is to me.
	In other words, what would occur?
	Is there really any question about what would occur?
	If the pinch turned into a grab, if the oils began to dry up from an economic point of view, what, at 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 dollars a gallon, wherever it's ultimately headed, Each one of those dollars would bring with it millions of Americans who would be homeless, or would not be able to feed their families, or would not be able to make their mortgage payments, or whatever.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	East of the Rockies?
	Hi, Art.
	Yes, hi.
	This is Ron, and I'm calling from Murrayville, Illinois.
	Yes, sir.
	Nine miles north of St.
	Louis, listening on the good old KTRS Big 550.
	It's big, Art.
	Fantastic program and I'm in the middle of farm country here.
	Right.
	Right on a farm.
	I can't say that I am a day-to-day farmer myself.
	I'm not.
	But in just a few weeks all the guys around here are going to be out putting in the crop for the coming season.
	Sure.
	Corn as far as you can see and of course soybeans.
	Sure.
	Now if gasoline suddenly went to Between four and five dollars a gallon tomorrow.
	Right.
	And we're talking really diesel fuel for the farm implements.
	Sure.
	Nowadays.
	It's going to hit these guys hard.
	Real hard.
	And it wouldn't be too long that, well, they're all going to tell you that the greatest thing that they'd like to see is a lot less corn in the country because everybody's got corn and less corn would mean higher prices.
	But, think of all the debt that a lot of these guys are carrying.
	Some better off than others.
	But when you've got to pull up and suddenly double your cost just to get it in the ground.
	Now we're just putting it in the ground.
	Now you're thinking about down the road next fall, you've got to go out and bring it out.
	What's the price going to be then?
	What's going to happen?
	And that's not all.
	I mean, assuming you get it out of the ground at some great golden price, you then have to get it over the road and to the stores.
	And by the time it gets to the consumer, it's going to be out of sight.
	And this whole thing could ratchet up so quickly and in such a terrifying way that the kind of horrible questions that I'm asking could be the operative questions.
	I think it's there now.
	The towns that are in this area are essentially all bedroom communities.
	Okay?
	Years ago, it was, well, everybody probably out of the other house might have been a farm, or they had something to do with the farm, even though they lived in the little town, but not today.
	All right?
	Now, where I'm at, I'm really an anomaly, I guess.
	I'm not a farmer.
	I still have connection to a farm that I grew up on.
	All right?
	My brother's just down the road, and he's handling all the operation, really.
	Everybody gets in their car or truck and goes at least five miles down the road, mostly ten, to get whatever they really need.
	I'm sure.
	And it'll bring things to a halt, I would think, pretty quick when we get into, well, above $3 a gallon.
	And it's $2.20 around here now.
	And it's 2-2-20 around here now.
	Okay?
	I've got to believe that if this same scenario was going on, and if it was the 1950s today, I think that the President would be on Television, pretty quick, addressing the nation.
	Of course, television was brand new back then.
	Maybe so.
	Do you think that a president today could go on television and say, I'm here to address the American people and tell them the truth about our immediate energy future, and then just lay out the whole truth?
	Could he do that?
	Could the American people take that kind of blunt reality?
	Yes, I think we could take it.
	More of the problem is we don't want to take it.
	We don't want to hear it.
	I would like to think that President Bush has got the guts to go on in front of the nation and lay it out straight like that.
	And then start a Manhattan-style project for alternative fuels and all the rest of that.
	Yeah, wouldn't that be wonderful to even contemplate, but why do I not think it's going to happen?
	I don't think that's going to happen, do you?
	We operate by crisis in America, and until there is a crisis, rarely do we do anything.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Yes, sir.
	Daniel, Los Angeles?
	Yes.
	Anyone who steals or kills for food or oil in an apocalyptic Mad Max scenario is a spiritual fool, because physically you can run, But you cannot hide spiritually.
	You will be judged.
	Well, perhaps so.
	But there would be, even you must admit, you can know there will be many of them.
	And you've heard them on this program this morning.
	Well, hopefully they'll change their mind after hearing this, because under this scenario, the sooner you surrender to the new totalitarian military new world order, and are executed for refusing the mark of the beast, the better for you then And for the eternity of your soul.
	And only a fool would steal or kill for food or oil, and damn it, go to hell forever.
	Well, I understand that from your point of view, that's absolutely true.
	But person after man, after man, after man, and some women have come on here this morning and said, in a New York second... But to prolong your... even if they're not spiritually minded, to prolong your life under that I don't know.
	Americans are... What are we?
	cnn provide your own agony understanding suffering about got it right sir i've
	got it thank you i know but it's not going to matter that something you have got to
	understand is not going to matter
	to these people so it has to matter
	to you i don't know americans are
	what are we were probably
	you know what i'll leave that for all of you i i i There are many words that I could conjure, but I'll refrain.
	International Line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello, Art.
	Yes, hi.
	Where are you?
	Actually, I'm west of the Rockies.
	I'm in Chico, California.
	Oh, I can't take your call on this line, bud.
	I'm sorry.
	That's the International Line reserved for those out of the country, mostly.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Art?
	Yes.
	Uh, I'm in Tennessee.
	Morristown, Tennessee.
	Morristown, Tennessee.
	Okay, sir.
	Listened to you a long time.
	Uh, first time caller.
	Been waiting, uh, about an hour now to get on.
	Uh-huh.
	And, um, I've got to put my two cents worth on this energy crisis.
	Fire away.
	I'm, uh, in my early 70s.
	My father said 50 years ago that before I died, uh, for my, uh, end of my life, we would see an energy crisis.
	That would really set this world back.
	And I think that we're approaching that.
	And the real thing is I think we are too eager to go out and waste our natural resources at all costs.
	And we've got hundreds of thousands of cars on the road that are driven by teenagers, running up and down the road that are going nowhere, accomplishing nothing.
	We have tractors and trailers sitting on our parking lots.
	At these sleeping places where they rest with their motors running all night long.
	They never shut them off.
	We waste more energy just for nothing.
	And we're too blinded, I reckon, because we've had it too easy to face up to what the real problems are.
	And I would be happy to make some big sacrifices to save our energy program.
	But if we don't do something real quick, you know, we think like race car drivers.
	I love to go to races.
	But how many millions of gallons every week do these cars or racers, these people drive from one end of the country to the other and go to the racetrack?
	Well, I was going to articulate some things about the current state of the American people, but you did it very well for me.
	Thank you very much.
	We're at a break point here.
	He's right.
	It's not serious, and it's modest right now.
	And so you may want to ponder, if not grab a telephone and answer some of these very, very difficult questions that I'm asking this morning.
	You think it's all real?
	Or do you think it's fake?
	Beyond that, does it really matter?
	I'm not sure.
	Our line at area codes.
	The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
	To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll free at 800-825-5033.
	line is area code 775-727-1222. To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll-free
	at 800-825-5033. From west of the Rockies, call Art at 800-618-8255.
	International callers may reach Art Bell by calling your in-country Sprint access
	number.
	What a night it launched, huh?
	and dialing toll free 800-893-0903.
	Oil.
	From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	It is indeed and we're talking about, actually about an article that launched all of this.
	What a night it launched, huh? Oil.
	But basically we're running out of it.
	What's that going to mean?
	Oh, it's gonna mean some pretty serious things if you've been listening carefully to what people have been saying to me this morning.
	If you'd like to join us, those are the numbers.
	stay right there alright back to it
	If you are fortunate enough to have a radio station that replays the first hour, many of them do, just in case you missed what launched this program that produced all of these comments, you know, it'll go into repeat in about 20-something minutes.
	So hang in there.
	If not, sorry you missed it.
	International Line, you're on the air.
	Where are you calling from, please?
	Yes, I'm calling from Paris, France.
	Paris!
	Oh my God!
	Gay Paris!
	I love Paris!
	Wonderful!
	I live in Montmartre.
	Right near Sacre Coeur.
	Oh my goodness.
	You've been there?
	Well, I've been near it.
	We have an open... I'm in a similar business to you.
	I'm a film producer and I'm a Canadian.
	Oh my God.
	Another Canadian.
	Just to share a little bit of my... before I go into my major diatribe.
	I've lived in New York, I've lived in LA, I've lived in Atlanta, London, Milano, and Paris.
	So I'm here basically to give you a little bit of insight into perhaps the European perspective on the energy crisis.
	By all means.
	We've adapted quite well to prices that the American people haven't even yet realized.
	That's true.
	And research and development in Europe is uh...
	one of our priorities is to basically look into
	uh...
	means of producing energy-efficient cars and we've we've accomplished that to a certain degree
	and the public seem to be uh...
	they seem to accept that uh...
	state of affair I'd like you to ask me specific questions, because I'm a little bit nervous.
	Well, alright.
	I just read a little earlier a Detroit Free Press article that said the price of gas there is about $5.60 a gallon.
	Let me do a quick calculation.
	About a 1 Euro 50 liter.
	It's actually more expensive.
	It's closer to $7.00.
	Oh my God.
	It's fine.
	We have cars.
	We have cars.
	I understand.
	You've gone native, haven't you?
	Well, I've been here since 87.
	Really, you've been here and you've seen the cars.
	They perform well.
	Well, I've been here since 87.
	Yeah, well then you are a native.
	Yeah, well, really, you've been here, and you've seen the cars.
	They perform well.
	Oh, yes.
	Highly efficient.
	But all of that said, sir, there is a world demand for oil.
	And there's every probability, according to what I've read, that we actually are beginning to run out of cheap oil.
	Absolutely.
	So it's going to get real expensive.
	And this is going to bring on certain changes.
	You have some logistical problems in America.
	Yes.
	And the logistical problems I'd like to refer to are the whole infrastructure that was set up around the car and the automobile, as you know, starting in the 50s and 60s.
	You have freeways, you have an infrastructure that is basically designed around the automobile.
	And in Europe, for example, we have specific laws that do not allow cars into the major city centers.
	Um, you're allowed to keep your car outside in the periphery around the city.
	And you are given specific, I guess, incentives to either one, leave your car at a free parking spot just outside of the city and use rapid transit to enter.
	Our rapid transit system, as you know, our TGV is incredible.
	It's incredible.
	I agree with you.
	But look, again, all of this said, we're running out of oil.
	And so what we need to be talking about is, I guess, more serious.
	All these things that you're doing, we should be doing, and even more.
	May I interrupt you for one moment?
	Yes.
	I think it's important.
	If I may, I understand you have a lot of listeners.
	We, and I'm speaking generally in Europe, we have very specific R&D going into Number one, minimizing the use of gas in terms of consumption.
	It hasn't.
	As you know, the lifestyle in Europe is on par with America, at least.
	We basically are going into alternative energy research and development.
	We're doing biodiesel.
	We're doing a mix of electrical.
	In fact, I just did a photo shoot this weekend Or EDF, which is Electricity of France.
	It's very interesting.
	All of their service vehicles are electric.
	Now, I'm not saying that that's the solution.
	In fact, we're drawing, obviously, where do we draw our power?
	As you know, France is 85% nuclear.
	And as you know that, and of course, the nuclear refinery, in fact, we're building more and more.
	But we are looking at, and this is going to cause a major controversy on the air, we are looking at Zero point energy possibilities.
	The Germans at Mercedes, for example, as you know, are developing hybrid cars that may be going into that possibility.
	That's really getting out on a limb.
	I thank you for the call all the way from Europe.
	I do appreciate it.
	But that's zero point maybe.
	But there's no zero point riding around on our roads right now or yours in France.
	So that's pretty far out on a limb.
	As for the rest of it, sure.
	Europe has adapted to higher prices.
	But look, the traffic clogs in Paris are pretty bad.
	I was there, and I remember.
	Pretty bad, indeed.
	So this is a worldwide problem.
	And I'm not suggesting... In fact, I'm sort of...
	Pleading with the powers that be to, yes, go ahead and let us begin doing all of these things that will mitigate this and may push it a few years further away if we start doing them now.
	But, I'm pointing out that we're not.
	We're not doing these things.
	And we've got to start, and we've got to start soon, and it's got to be done.
	This is one thing, one place where I think the federal government does have a responsibility for all the things they get their fingers into where they ought not.
	This is one area where they should be very, very, very much involved because it is a national security issue!
	Our national security is at stake.
	So it is an appropriate place for our government to be.
	And where are they?
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello?
	Hi.
	Hi, Art.
	How are you?
	I'm just spiffy.
	Where are you calling from?
	Alaska.
	All the way up in Alaska?
	Yes.
	Ah, yes.
	I just wanted to put my two cents in.
	I've been listening all night, and these people I've been calling, and I concur with everything they're saying.
	The thing is, the world population is growing at a rapid rate, and I do believe it's going to come down to a crisis.
	Sure it is.
	It's obvious.
	And I think people's attitudes have to change.
	How does that come about?
	I don't know.
	I mean, I guess maybe it has to come to where we're actually fighting over food.
	I mean, hopefully before that.
	Well, people left no doubt in my mind about the fact that they would fight, steal, or kill for food if necessary.
	I mean, a lot of people have been very honest this morning that that's where it would be if it gets that bad.
	Yeah, I hope not.
	But I think attitudes have to change now.
	Well, you're going to have to tell me more.
	I mean, describe a changed attitude to me.
	What is a person with a changed attitude?
	Well, the technology.
	I mean, we've got to look at this now.
	I mean, the changes have to start going in that direction.
	Different technologies for our power.
	And, you know, start steering away from using petroleum.
	Seems like it ought to be underway right now, doesn't it?
	Yeah, I'm glad that you actually have the show.
	This is really very important.
	I think it is important, too.
	And yes, we should be doing all of this stuff now, but even that said, all it's going to do, I think, you know, if this article and other articles like it are correct, it's going to push the date of the real reckoning a few years away.
	So I'm not saying we shouldn't be doing it.
	We should.
	But it might only be pushing it a few more years away.
	We really need more than just sort of what we can do right now.
	I mean, we can do solar panels.
	We can do wind power.
	We can do ocean power.
	We can build more dams.
	We can do more, even nuclear plants.
	I mean, the stuff is out there.
	How come you just haven't grabbed onto it?
	Is it because of the people that are in control?
	Well, I don't know what's a lot of things.
	I've given that a lot of thought myself.
	Nobody wants a nuclear plant in their backyard.
	Right.
	Right?
	Nobody wants waste in their backyard.
	And... You think our demise is inevitable?
	Um... I wish you hadn't asked me that.
	Probably.
	Unless, as you say, there's a complete attitude change, and frankly, I don't see that happening.
	So, thank you very, very much for the call.
	It is indeed a very, very, very important show.
	If you absorb it, if you understand it, then you understand the dire situation that is presented.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Good evening, Art.
	Good evening.
	It's Jim in Los Angeles on KFI.
	Yes, sir.
	And a few of your guests that you've had on the past make me wonder if things aren't... I mean, things could very easily be bad, but I wonder if they're going to get better than we even imagine.
	Which guests are you particularly referring to?
	Well, a couple of weeks ago you had a guy on talking about nanotechnology.
	Yes?
	And solar getting down to under a buck a watt.
	Oh yes, and the solar paint and all the rest of it.
	I suppose there's a bit of a race on.
	I mean, technology could save us, but we almost have to, you know, proceed here as though it won't.
	Even though it might.
	Then again, it might not.
	And so a prudent, careful, conservative person proceeds as though there might not be a miracle.
	No, I would agree and I've been acting along those lines personally.
	I was a little kid during the two oil shocks in the 70's and I didn't like The way things were.
	Man, it was awful.
	People were not at all civilized with each other.
	They were fighting.
	They were short tempered.
	It was pretty bad.
	And it seems to me that society since then has become less tolerant.
	Less civil.
	Right?
	Yes, I would agree with that, too.
	People are more likely today, by a big margin, to tear each other's throats out than they were then.
	So... Well, I guess to answer one of your questions, I would, as an individual, I would take extreme measures to act in my defense or that of my family.
	You would steal or kill to feed your family?
	Well, no, as a matter of As a matter of personal defense, but not as a matter of convenience.
	Well, I don't know if a question of that magnitude fits into the word convenience.
	It's not a convenience.
	If your family is starving to death, you have serious decisions to make, right?
	Oh, I agree.
	I'd rather grow potatoes in a dirt-filled tire than pump someone in the head to steal theirs.
	Got you.
	All right.
	Thank you very, very much.
	And that was an exception to the way that question has been answered all through the evening.
	Pretty rare exception.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello?
	Hello.
	Talking to me now?
	I am.
	All right.
	Thank you.
	I wanted to talk concerning the oil thing.
	You say there's a big concern here in the United States, and not just the U.S., but all over the world, about oil.
	What I said was that oil is now a world commodity.
	The price of oil is determined by the entire world, not just what the U.S.
	is willing to pay.
	China, India, all these other countries, they're bidding for the same barrels that we're using, sir.
	For some years, like the man said, for a hundred years before, we have been depending on oil.
	And if we've learned anything from history, we must have learned from the Indians, but we don't steal, kill.
	Take the animals out in the forest, which we would survive by, but we wouldn't need necessarily oil for that, but we would need horses.
	I mean, that's what we started off with.
	That's what George Washington drove in on.
	I mean, he was the first president of the United States.
	So are you ready to saddle up?
	Saddle up?
	Yes.
	Saddle up, sir.
	No, no, no.
	I'm just asking if you're ready to saddle up.
	Are you ready to get on a horse and do your daily... Well, I'm just saying that we should adapt because that's what we have been doing over the years with technology.
	And we should adapt to something new.
	And there's always going to be something new, because it even says that in the Bible.
	Does it?
	There shall be new things.
	It guarantees new stuff.
	Well, right up until the last day, right?
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Yeah, hi.
	I was just thinking that with this new LED technology, I think even when your ad says that if everybody switched to LEDs, you'd have an extra power plant kicking around.
	Oh, absolutely.
	And I think conservation would be very helpful for a lot of folks.
	President Eisenhower, I think, really shed a lot of light on what we're up against as far as the global military complex.
	I think 9-11 was contrived by them.
	The military industrial complex was what he warned against.
	Yep.
	And I think that these draconian beasts that have been conjuring up and distorting our politics for the last several decades and creating wars and strife and stuff are the problem.
	If you took a few percent of your Black Project funding.
	You could build new refineries.
	You could fund fuel subsidies and technology for green energy.
	You could help everybody with the amount of money that those guys consume, free and clear of any congressional, it seems, discretion.
	And I really think... Well, that's a pretty interesting comment to contemplate.
	How many of the rest of you think that if we diverted some of that Black money.
	You know, the money that goes for the very secret projects?
	But my God, there'd be a panacea of energy.
	If we just took the money that went into those black projects and all those neat airplanes that we have on development area 51 and elsewhere, why, the world would be a better place with energy to spare.
	I don't think so.
	But I do think a project, a Manhattan-like project, to begin to mitigate what's coming is in order.
	And I'm wondering, day by day by day, when is it going to be announced?
	When is somebody going to show us the kind of leadership we know we need?
	Because this is coming.
	International Line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Yes.
	Yeah, this is McKenzie.
	I'm calling from Fort St.
	John, B.C., Canada.
	Welcome.
	Welcome.
	Thanks.
	I think one of the questions you should ask your listeners is, would any one of them be willing to give up their automobile?
	To give up their car?
	Yeah, which you know they wouldn't.
	I think most, yes, if most answered honestly, they'd say that you'd have to rip it from my cold, dead hands.
	Unfortunately, we live in a society that's totally dependent on fossil fuels, worldwide.
	And it doesn't matter if it's the United States, Canada, France, wherever.
	It is a problem.
	And we have no backup.
	We have no other system to go to.
	That's not strict.
	We don't.
	And that's where people got to start thinking.
	You hear this phrase, you don't think outside the box.
	Well, we more or less got ourselves in a box.
	And if we don't start thinking about it, It's going to come down to mayhem.
	It's going to come down to people getting desperate.
	That's why I did this program.
	So that everybody could kind of listen to everybody else and understand the lengths to which people would go if they were pushed that far.
	You can only push people so far.
	And I kind of wanted to understand how far people would push before they'd start to push back really hard.
	And I think we've learned that this morning.
	The answer is They'd damn well push back.
	People would be short-tempered and very unlikely to behave well.
	No, all the rules of conduct and social well-being and all that would go out the window.
	No one would listen to anybody or reason or anything like that.
	It would be just total chaos.
	Then that makes this a really serious situation, right?
	Absolutely.
	Appreciate your call, sir.
	Thank you.
	Take care.
	First-time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Yes, Art?
	Yes.
	My name is Brian.
	I'm in Glossford, Illinois, which is near Peoria.
	Yes, Brian.
	Not a lot of time here.
	Okay, my biggest point is that had we spent the $300 billion that we spent on the war in Iraq, had we spent that on developing alternative fuels, we would have solved our problem.
	Hmm.
	I wonder if that's true.
	I mean, I wonder if just throwing money at something, even $300 billion, whether it can make it happen.
	I think it can.
	And the question that you're asking, would we kill for oil, is a rhetorical question, because that's exactly what we're doing in Iraq.
	There's no way that we would be there if the oil were not there.
	Well, you're about the fifth person this morning, at least, to tell me that, and you're absolutely correct.
	I happen to believe that also.
	We are doing that, but it's going to get a lot worse.
	It's going to get a whole lot worse.
	It seems that Bush's energy solution centers around ANWR, which the stories differ.
	The estimates differ.
	Is it six months worth of supply up there or a couple of years?
	Regardless, I think that we should conserve that for national emergencies, primarily war and protection of our country.
	Rather than just squandering that, as we do much of the other.
	I absolutely agree with you.
	Listen, thank you so very much for calling.
	Thank you.
	Have a very good morning.
	It's been a wonderful weekend.
	This has been a particularly excellent program, in my opinion.
	And I now return you to the weeknights, and I'll see you next weekend.
	Until then, this is Crystal Gale, The Perfect Words.
	Good night.

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