Art Bell

All Episodes

Previous Next

Jan. 23, 2005 - Art Bell

02:54:17

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Cramer & Resnick - HAARP Experiments

Participants

Main voices

01:13:47

Large

Audio Only |

Scroll

Show episode speakers

Speaker	Time	Text
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Desert and the American Southwest.
		Happy to all, good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be in the world's beloved time zones, every single one of them covered by a blanket by this program, Coast Coast Bam.
		I'm Art Bell.
		And I'm an Art Bell with a dilemma tonight that I'll tell you all about.
		Well, I can't tell you all about it.
		I'll tell you what I'm going to do about it, though.
unidentified		I've got two really heavyweight guests.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know if they're going to be heavyweight in the answers they give or not, but I've got two heavyweight guests coming on the air this evening on, among other things, the subject of HAARP.
		Now, I have a lot of really serious questions about HARP.
		Really serious questions about HARP.
		Dr. Joseph Resnick is one of them.
		He's an applied scientist.
		Oh, he's a long resume I'll tell you all about.
		And Guy Kramer.
		Both of them here, ostensibly or mainly on the subject of HAARP.
		They hold patents.
		There are certain patents that I'm told they're not going to be able to talk about.
		And their appearance here had to be approved at the senatorial level by a senator.
		There were questions in the way they would answer them, bandied back and forth, and they had to get approval at a senatorial level now.
		So already I know I'm in, we're in for a big, well, a big unknown tonight, because we've got a couple of guys who know a lot more than they're going to be willing to say about something that I really want to know about.
		So it may not be an easy night.
		Be forewarned.
		Big full moon up there, and it feels like it, too.
		Then the dilemma, if that's not dilemma enough already, right?
		I got this email earlier with all of these questions and the scripted answers, you know, and I went, oh, man, what are we up to here?
		And I called Guy Kramer and said, listen, this talk radio, we don't do scripts, you know.
		But turns out this was a sort of an approval process at the senatorial level to have them on there at all.
		Now, obviously, one thing I don't want to do is I don't want to lose the opportunity to interview them.
		So I'm going to be a little careful here.
		I do have a dilemma about Dr. Resnick sent me a piece of information about the bird flu, something I told you I was very serious about last night.
		And it's a startling bit of information.
		Now, in the email, he says, please ask AB, that'd be me, to keep the lid on this for the moment.
		Well, I'm a talk show host.
		I don't keep lids on.
		I blow them off.
		That's what I do.
		And so here's what I think I'll do.
		I think I'll hold on to this, and we'll ask about it at the beginning of the interview.
		And if they won't say anything about it or say they can't, then before the show is over, I'll read it to you anyway.
		Now, I hope that doesn't lead to the show being over prematurely, if you follow me.
		We'll see.
		It's a full moon.
		It's a tough subject.
		And if you look at the, just before we get started with the World News, if you'll take a good look at the webcam photograph tonight, the one of me with a couple thumbs up, you know, usual pre-show kind of typical photograph that I took a few minutes ago, behind me you will see a very great deal of shortwave equipment.
		You know, I'm a ham operator.
		I've said it enough times on the show.
		I'm a very avid ham operator.
		I've been licensed consecutively since I was 13 years of age, and I'm 59 now.
		I have some very serious shortwave equipment.
		I have five acres of antenna, unlike any other, except maybe our friends up in Alaska HARP.
		And I'm telling you, as I have told you in shows of recent weeks, that I'm very disturbed by what's going on in the ionosphere and very aware that something unusual is going on with our ionosphere.
		Something very unusual.
		Frequencies that have for all my life been dependable every night to yield a certain result, communicating with stations 200, 3, 400 miles away, that's been blown away.
		That usually ever-so-reliable ionosphere has just been blown away since September.
		And one of the possibilities, when you look at the various possibilities of what could be causing this, because the sun certainly has not been, I suppose it's been contributory.
		In the sense we've had some pretty big flares, but even at times when the sun was not flaring, this unusual, bizarre circumstance on Shore Wave has been the same.
		So the sun is not the factor.
		Something else is at work here.
		Now, some, I suppose, would screech normal cycles.
		Well, I've been there and I've not, there's nothing normal about it to me.
		Or most of the people I've talked to, my colleagues, for example, other hams, people who have been 40 and 50 years as myself, depending on things being a certain way.
		They ain't that way anymore.
		And one of the possibilities is HARP.
		So it's going to be a serious show.
		And with the news, we will begin very seriously indeed.
		I grew up with him.
		I think many of us grew up with Johnny Carson, and he's gone.
		Johnny Carson, the quick-witted tonight show host, who became a national institution, oh, he was, putting his viewers to bed for 30 years with a smooth nightcap of celebrity banter and heartland charm, died Sunday, 79, emphysema, he died early Sunday morning with his family by him.
		And I will miss him.
		You know, unlike certain celebrities, like the ones sitting in this seat, who have retired a number of times, I mean, look, a lot of people in, I don't know, I guess these kinds of jobs, the broadcast media, sports, I don't know.
		Whatever they do that they do, they do it very well, and they retire, and then, of course, they want to go back to their love, and they do.
	It's inevitable.
	Carson didn't.
	He retired, and unlike many of us, stayed retired.
	He'll be missed.
	And I grew, like so many of you, I grew up with Johnny Carson.
	He was a national institution, and now he's gone.
	In fact, he really didn't do anything.
	He became a recluse after he retired.
	He may have appeared, I'm told, in a 1993 version of The Simpsons as voice, but otherwise, you didn't see Johnny Carson anymore.
	So goodbye, Johnny.
	We will miss you.
	A howling blizzard slammed the northeast as promised.
	It was going on during the program last night and Sunday.
	More than two feet of snow and hurricane-strength gusts.
	Well, it's all obviously stopped air travel for thousands, keeping others off slippery highways.
	In fact, it was comment in Michigan that people are driving, as they usually do in this kind of stuff, like idiots.
	So don't drive like an idiot.
	If you don't know how to drive in snow and ice, don't.
	Really, I mean that.
	If you don't know how to drive in snow and ice, and there is an art to driving in snow and ice, I lived in Alaska three years and you either learn or die.
	So don't.
	If you have that choice and you're not good at it, just don't because you will not do well.
	And people are not driving well at all.
	So just stay home.
	A lot of news tonight.
	Nearly three decades before the September 11th attacks, a high-level government panel, it turns out, developed plans to protect the nation against terrorist acts ranging all the way from radiological dirty bombs, the subject of an HBO movie tomorrow night, to airline missile attacks, according to documents just declassified.
	The Associated Press just got hold of, quote, unless governments take basic precautions, we will continue to stand at the edge of an awful abyss.
	That's Robert Kupperman, chief scientist for the Arms Control and Disarmament Agency.
	And that was written in 1977, so they knew this kind of thing was coming.
unidentified		I wonder how they missed it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The U.S. Ambassador to Iraq acknowledged serious problems ahead of next weekend's election, but he gives assurances that great efforts are being made so every single Iraqi can vote.
		In an audio tape posted on the web, a speaker claiming to be Iraq's most feared terrorist declared fierce war on democracy, raising the stakes in the vote.
		Fierce war against democracy.
		Rebels who have vowed to disrupt the balloting blew up rather a designated polling station near Baghdad and stormed a police station in Ramadi, west of the capital.
		So what I did from the time I got up until, oh, I don't know, about 30 minutes before airtime, I watched playoff games.
		And in Pittsburgh, nobody apparently beats Brady and Belichick in a big game, and they sure didn't get beaten 41-27.
		So New England, a dynasty, question mark, meets up with Philadelphia.
		And that was 27-10.
		Falcons lost 27-10.
		So there you've got it.
		It's going to be New England and Philadelphia in the Super Bowl.
		And also another death, Rosemary Woods, the devoted secretary to President Nixon, who said she inadvertently erased part of a crucial Watergate tape.
		That would be the famous or infamous 18 and 1 half-minute gap has died.
		She died at 87 years of age.
		In a moment, we've got more.
unidentified		Gunshot
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you an off-Are you an off- I want to get to the phones fairly quickly.
		However, I also want to read you more of this article that was only mentioned in passing last night.
		My guest, Sir Charles Schultz, said that referred to an atmospheric phenomena that a lot of it we don't know about.
		And indeed, I yanked out this story and read a little bit of it.
		A new atmospheric phenomenon was caught on video by the crew of the space shuttle Columbia.
		Now, this occurred just days before the shuttle broke apart, and it was just released.
		Astronauts relayed video of this to NASA in real time during their 16-day flight, but the agency did not release the full data to researchers until several months after the mission's tragic end on 1 February 2003.
		All seven crew members killed, of course, when the shuttle exploded while re-entering the atmosphere.
		Colleagues from a university in Israel spent more than a year analyzing the video, which was originally taken to study atmospheric dust, but a single frame of the video was the most important, representing just make that 33 milliseconds, showing a mysterious reddish glow in the sky, night sky, on 20 January 2003.
		One of the scientists said, I'm not sure what we saw.
		I just know it wasn't something that we were used to seeing.
		It was something extraordinary.
		The glow occurred about 150 kilometers above the ocean near Madagascar and did not appear to be linked with thunderstorms in any way.
		This contrasts sharply with other events at similar altitudes which glimmer into being when electrical current travels upward from lightning clouds at altitudes of about 10 kilometers, called sprites.
		You've heard of those, right now, Elves?
		These events take the shape of sort of jellyfish, downward pointing carrots or doughnuts, and tend to occur within a horizontal distance of about 70 kilometers from lightning.
		But the closest lightning picked up by the Chuttil's video camera was 800 kilometers away.
		So it wasn't lightning from this unexpected glow that's been dubbed Tiger.
		Transient ionospheric glow emission in red.
		That's what it stands for, Tiger.
		Transient ionospheric glow emission in red.
		Well, sprites and elves emerge within a few milliseconds of the nearest lightning strike, but Tiger took 250 milliseconds to leap into view after this lightning struck 800 kilometers away, suggesting the two events were not in any way linked.
		So what the hell is it?
		This Tiger.
		Gee, you don't think this could be another man-made something or another, do you?
		This is really, really going to be an interesting program tonight.
		Let's go to the phones.
		Let's begin on the phones.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Good evening.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		This is Art from Detroit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, pick up your phone, please, Art.
unidentified		Yeah.
		This is Art from Detroit.
		We're hosting in on CKLW 800.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		And I think I sent you a few emails back in the summer when you were mentioning about floor activity, watch for aurora activity and stuff.
unidentified		I've been involved with some astronomy groups for about the past 20, 30 years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And naturally, like you mentioned, there's the one-year high and low cycle.
		And I remember back in the 70s, early 70s, because I was in the service with the, if I'm allowed to say it, Coast Guard, I was serving on the Great Lakes here.
		And normally, for the area I was in, or located or stationed, basically we shouldn't have had any auroras.
		And I remember about from 71 to 75, 76, and this was even long after I got out of the service down here in Detroit, we'd see northern lights probably about maybe once a week or once every other week.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
		You're at a latitude where you would see northern lights very easily.
		Now, a couple of times in the last several years, northern lights have come to the southern latitudes, even as far as myself here in the desert.
		But I want to be clear once again so that you're clear when we get the guests on here.
		The phenomena that I'm talking about is, as far as I know, completely unprecedented since about September, frequencies that always, always have been reliable for short-range communication, meaning 200, 300, 400 miles, within an hour of sunset, these frequencies, 3 and 4 megahertz area, have been shut down like somebody closed a big steel trap door.
		It's just not normal.
		It is aby normal.
		It's like somebody shuts a door.
		Boom, it's over.
		And the highest viable frequency for that kind of communication is 2 megahertz or even lower, down into the broadcast band.
		This phenomenon has been dipping.
		And some of you can certainly testify to that fact.
		When I say it gets down to the broadcast band, that means at radio stations that you would normally hear, you know, 50, 100, 200, even 300 miles away big boomers.
		You listen one night, and they're not there.
		You can't even hear them.
		When it gets particularly bad, it goes all the way down to the broadcast band, and that kind of thing begins to happen.
		Well, we've been getting tons of email here, but guess what?
		It's been happening a lot.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Yeah, hi, Art.
unidentified		How you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm okay, sir.
unidentified		Yeah, God, really sorry to hear about Johnny Carson.
		That's what an individual I would have loved to have been able to meet and say hello to of all the celebrities.
		He's the only one that really stands out that way for me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, he stands out in a lot of ways.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		Listen, I started reading The Day After Roswell with Colonel Philip Corso.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, of course.
unidentified		And that was like 97 copyright, I guess, huh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That sounds about right.
unidentified		Yeah.
		I was just checking it out to make sure.
		And I heard all your interviews with him and everything.
		And he mentioned HAARP in the book, you know, which I didn't read at the time, but I just read it.
		I'm reading it right now.
		I'm almost finished.
		But he says it's a high-altitude research project is what HAARP stands for.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Roughly, sir, yes.
unidentified		Yeah, I didn't ever recall hearing that before.
unidentified		But anyway, all those packages they put together back then all had to do with fighting off the alien threat that we apparently have had going on for quite some time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, maybe, maybe not.
		I don't know about fighting off an alien threat.
		I think this is more like a threat to us.
		And if we have to fight anything off, it's a threat to us.
		Now, perhaps we will hear differently tonight.
		Maybe they'll cancel the whole interview.
		I don't know.
unidentified		But something's going on with HARP.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		HAARP is having an effect on one of the natural pieces of our world, the ionosphere.
		Or something is.
		And my guess would be HAARP.
		We know it's active.
		We know it's operational.
		We know it's coming up near full power.
		And what we don't know is what they intend to do with it.
		We don't know.
		Whether we'll find that out or not tonight, I really can't say because I know there are an awful lot of aspects of this they cannot talk about.
		Now, whether they're able to talk about the larger picture with reference to HAARP, I guess we're going to find out, or whether some of the goals of HAARP have to remain classified, or whether only the details of technically what they're doing with HAARP have to remain classified.
		Or I don't know.
		I guess we're going to find all of this out.
		That plus the little curveball they threw me here causing my dilemma with regard to the bird fluid, something I desperately really would like to take the lid off of for you tonight and will one way or the other before the program's over.
		Sometimes being a talk show host presents you with dilemmas, decisions that are very tough to make.
		And so what I'll do is I'll make a decision on this and one way or the other before the program's over, I'll read it to you.
		How's that?
		From the high desert, in the middle of absolute...
		I'm Art Bell, and this is the best of the night.
unidentified		I'm Art Bell, and this is the best of the night.
		I'm Art Bell, and this is the best of the night.
		I would not give you false hope on this strange morning, baby, but your mother and child reunion.
		Only emotional way Oh, it's gone in my mind I can't find the life of me Remember a Saturday I know they say let me Just don't work out that way And the course of a lifetime runs
		Over and over again Well, I would not give you cause hope On the strange and awful way But the mother of child me, you will now Is only emotional way To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
		From west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach Art by calling your in-country sprint access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free, 800-893-0903.
		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is.
		Good morning, everybody.
		All right, I've got to note it.
		Have to note it.
		We just got several calls, several fast blasts, and we checked the official predictions made at the beginning of the year.
		It is number 11.
		Whoever you are, number 11.
		During the traditional Christmas and New Year sort of span, we always do the predictions.
		Number 11 was Johnny Carson passes.
		So those of you trying very hard to tell me that indeed that came to pass, it did come to pass, there's one, a very sad ding, I'm afraid.
		Number 11, Johnny Carson, indeed, passed rather quickly in the year.
		In a moment, we'll return to open line.
unidentified		It's ironic.
unidentified		It's ironic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, even though I'm not going to read you word for word this email yet, I do have a lot of concerns about the bird flu.
		I really do.
		It's like the scientists have been calling this one, sort of almost saying it's going to happen.
		It's going to come.
		It's going to jump species, and we're going to have the bird flu, human to human.
		It's like they've been saying that.
		It's like, what do they know that we don't?
		Why would they be right about this kind of thing?
		So a lot of concerns about it, and indeed they're worried about, and the word they use is pandemic.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		I didn't remember in one of your end of the year prediction shows that past year that one of your callers predicted that Johnny would die together.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		Number 11.
		Number 11.
		So sadly, that was a correct prediction and very, sure, came awfully quick.
unidentified		Yeah, I almost wonder because of the time factor if it might have been a health care worker somehow attached to the case.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		I mean, I suppose you could jump to some sort of conclusion like that, because Johnny Carson...
		you know, I had no clue, and I don't think the rest of the world really did either, that he was ill, emphysema, so that would have been a fairly long-term protracted illness, I would think.
		But he kept it from everybody.
		And so it was, unless it was something like, you know, a healthcare worker close to him or something of that order, there shouldn't have been a hint of it.
		And you would have imagined Johnny would have had another ten years easily because he, you know, you just never heard anything.
		So, of course, it's a really big shock.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
unidentified		How are you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Quite well, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How are you?
unidentified		Very fine.
		Thank you.
		I have a question, but you're the only person that can get away with asking it.
		I think they'd blow me right off the line.
		I want to know if HARP has the capability of breaking a tectonic plate.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll ask for you I don't I worked it out mathematically, and I think they have the capability to do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Based on what?
unidentified		I'd rather not say, if you don't mind, but there's certain things that aren't right about the quake in Indonesia.
		And also, the animals are fleeing.
		The undersea life, the whales.
		I believe Ed Ames told you that there wasn't any whales off Hawaii.
		I believe you must have heard hundreds of squid washed up dead on the California coast.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I heard something about that.
unidentified		There's no autopsy report yet, and there should have been one.
		And I think something happened, and I also believe that they have a satellite connected with HAARP, and they're doing wonderful things like you saw with the hurricanes and the blizzards with Sudar weather.
		I've never seen Front 3,500 miles long.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Here's the deal.
		I think that you may be onto something, and there may be something else going on with all of this, but I don't necessarily attribute it to HARP with what little I do know about HAARP and the things I think it might do, which are scary enough all by themselves.
		I don't see them having any effect on tectonic plates.
		Even with immense amounts of radiation and even understanding that they seem to have some vision that HAAA could reveal underground tunnels and bunkers, the only way it could do that is to bounce so hard off the ionosphere and to re-radiate so hard that it would literally be ground-penetrating in some manner.
		So, you know, it would be a pretty wild guess to go from measurement of something like that hard enough to affect something like that that far down.
		But I'll ask.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hey, Art, this is Brooke.
unidentified		I'm calling from Rhode Island.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Brooke.
unidentified		I have a harp or a hum update for you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, which is it?
unidentified		Well, I heard a different version of the hum last Thursday night that I have never heard, and I've been hearing this phenomena for four years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're going to have to fill me in on what hum you do have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What are you talking about?
unidentified		It's the ELF, the low-frequency monotone hum that basically just goes for hours and hours.
unidentified		Last Thursday night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is something you feel in your home.
		Is that what you're telling me?
		Hear and feel or whatever?
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		I first discovered it in Vermont, and I called you a few times from Vermont, and you were really wonderful, and you're one of the few people that understands this phenomena, which is why I'm extremely fond of you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't understand it, though.
		If I did, I would explain it all to you.
		I don't.
		These hums.
unidentified		Well, you're open to it, Art.
unidentified		That's what I mean.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I'm open to it.
		Of course.
		Yeah, of course.
unidentified		But I have a buddy who is a senior federal agent in Homeland Security, and he has always believed me.
		And he is incidentally in Las Vegas.
		And he said that one of his partners in his office has what he thinks I have, some sort of extrasensory hearing capacity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, people do, all right, I've got it.
		People do have these talents.
		Some of them, they hear things that others don't.
		Animals hear things we don't, right?
		And some humans, you could assume, would have hearing that would go beyond the normal range of other human beings.
		So that could be.
		There are a variety of experiments going on, not just in our atmosphere, but also in our waters.
		And a lot of people, okay, here's a story for you.
		I tell you, I collect these things.
		A scientist, the headline is ship begins sound wave research off Yucatan.
		Scientists working off Mexico's Yucatan Peninsula began using sound waves to search for information about an asteroid that may have wiped out the dinosaurs 65 million years ago.
		The research project began despite concerns among environmental activists who say this technology could harm whales, sea turtles, and several variety of fish in the Gulf of Mexico.
		Mexican authorities say the project is within, quote, acceptable limits and will be closely monitored.
		So this project apparently is going to use sound waves to try and figure out what happened to the dinosaurs 65 million years ago.
		Not sure how it works, but they are concerned about all of these marine mammals that may have a problem with it beaching themselves and that sort of thing.
		So that's going on.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, this is Patrick.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Patrick.
unidentified		I wanted to talk to you about the ionosphere a little bit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		I heard you mention that earlier.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, get close to your phone.
unidentified		Yeah, can you hear me better now?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Much better, yes.
unidentified		Okay, sorry about that.
		If you think about the ionosphere, it has basically one very primary function, and it serves as a filter.
		You're familiar with the radio spectrum.
		There's some very high energy just above what we see as or perceive as ultraviolet light.
		And when that gets through the ionosphere, that's, for example, what causes sunburns, and it can incinerate things that get through at higher frequencies.
		And nastier stuff above that.
		The ionosphere exists primarily because of two things.
		Number one, again, we're bombarded by radiation from the sun.
		And secondarily, we have this gigantic molten mass of iron spinning here that is our core of our planet.
		And it has poles that we refer to as the magnetic field.
		And the good folks at NOAA have been taking pictures of this molten mass with satellites for the last couple decades or so.
		And there has been a shift in the currents.
		And there are huge spots that are out of phase now.
		And the change is exponential.
		It was slow at first, and it's been increasing and becoming more rapid.
		And the prevailing theory is that our Earth's magnetic field is going to go through a flip-flop.
		And there's evidence that that's happened before.
		There's core samples that have been taken in the eastern part of the state here of Oregon where I live.
		And there's places, for example, our mass transit rail line cuts through a tunnel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They have core samples from the tunnel that we know it's flipped before, and it will again.
unidentified		And there's a fail-safe to the ionosphere when the magnetic field collapses and reaches its zero point, and the ionosphere fails to function, and that fail-safe is the atmosphere.
		And what happens is the oceans heat up and release large volumes of water vapor, which goes up into the atmosphere.
		Being heated, it rises as high as it can to its maximum specific gravity, and the Earth's surface cools.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've heard this.
unidentified		We call that an ice age.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've heard about this so-called fail-safe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I hope that's right.
unidentified		Well, we call that an ice age.
		And, you know, during the more severe ice ages throughout history, there are corresponding core samples that show the magnetic field flip-flopping four or five times within a period of just a few years.
		And as the Earth stabilizes to its new polarity.
		And so to tie this all together, this is just a theory that I've discussed with a few people.
		I don't have a lot to back it up, but that HARP may be an attempt to be able to set up an artificial magnetic field to keep the Earth from freezing over solids.
		I got it.
		Make the ice age survivable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got it.
		All right.
		So HAARP, saving our butts from otherwise what would be a rough ride in a magnetic reversal.
		I don't know.
		Good theory, actually, with a sound basis behind it, but theory.
		I don't know.
		And it could be anything from that to the scientists just can do it, so they're doing it, and they're going to see what happens.
		These are some of the questions that we're going to be asking tonight.
		I mean, do they really know what is going to happen when they hit the ionosphere with a billion watts of power and modulated frequencies designed to actually have a sum and difference and produce a chain reaction in the ionosphere?
		Do we really know what that's going to do?
		Probably not.
		So is it one of those cases where the scientists are just going to go ahead and do it because they can do it and see what happens?
		Or do we really have solid reason to believe it will do some certain specific thing?
		On the first-time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Yes, Mr. Bell, this is David calling from Salton City, California.
		I'm a longtime fan and a past guest on your fabulously informative program.
		I wrote a book called Sunstroke.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, man, this is your full name, please.
unidentified		David Kagan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		David Kagan wrote Sunstroke.
		That's right.
		And you were a guest.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
		I had the time of my life on your program.
		I learned so much about how important talk radio really is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It really is.
unidentified		And I want to thank you so much for mentioning my book on last night's smashingly good show with Sir Charles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And your book will always be with me, David, always.
unidentified		Thank you, Mr. Bell, from the bottom of my heart.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, since you're here and since you wrote Sunstroke so long ago, to hear Sir Charles on this program telling you that it's a reality, that a private company, Gene Myers and other folks, have got it together and they're going to do what you wrote about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they're going to go to the whole project to pull power out from space.
unidentified		Absolutely amazing.
		I am elated that finally a solar power satellite apparently is going to be getting off the ground.
		I wish them the best of luck.
		However, I just have a few quick comments to make on last night's show, if you don't mind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't mind.
unidentified		All right, sir.
		I admire Sir Charles' unbridled enthusiasm regarding the actual deployment of a microwave solar satellite.
		However, I do feel he kind of glossed over the detrimental environmental effects that we did discuss during my interview on your show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Think so?
unidentified		Yes, I. And also.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, there was that magic moment where we lost phone contact, and his primary and his backup number both didn't work.
		I thought he sounded a little chagrined when he came back from that and said, well, lots and lots of safeguards, Art.
		That's what we need.
unidentified		Exactly.
		And I was pretty flabbergasted that he did leave the air for that period of time.
		And, well, you never know.
		Maybe someday we'll find out the rest of that story.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he could have had a whole discussion with somebody, huh?
unidentified		Yes, sir.
		Possibility.
		I would like to say real quick that Sir Charles repeatedly did state that a microwave satellite will only generate microwave heating on the Earth and in the atmosphere equivalent to the light of a full moon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that it would have a heating effect of one hundredth of a degree, I believe.
unidentified		Centigrade, yes, sir.
		I would just like to point out that according to the U.S. Office of Technological Assessment, a document that I still have right before me in my desk, it's titled Solar Power Satellites.
		If anybody in your listening audience around the world can Google solar power satellites, go up to an actual document that I printed out here, and it will explain that such a satellite, according to the magnitude that Sir Charles is speaking about, would induce heating of at least 23 milliwatts per square centimeter on the ground, which the document does state is enough to cook biological tissues and people, animals, and plants.
		I in no way wish to infringe on the success of the Space Island Group's solar power satellite deployment in 2012.
		My objective in writing Sunstroke is just to educate folks regarding some of these environmental concerns.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Possible dangers, even yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so you think he glossed over that?
unidentified		Just in his unbridled enthusiasm, yes, to explain the workings of the project.
unidentified		I feel that he did kind of gloss over that, and I'm just going to say that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, right.
		Let me back up a little bit.
		I mean, he did suggest, though, that any, for example, if the satellite did the thing he claims it can't and it wandered, that the amount of heat at any specific point on the ground, if all the fail safes failed, would not be enough to be french-frying things as it goes along.
		Do you flat out disagree with that?
unidentified		Well, just let me point out in a response to that question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's the big question.
unidentified		Yes, do you remember, though, Sir Jarles and his group, they do intend to use a microwave solar satellite to, as a pied piper, as you pointed out on air, to draw a hurricane, say, away from the east coast.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		And due to heating up, actually heating the water in the top layers, I believe he said.
		And I said something like, yeah, a microwave pied piper.
unidentified		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so you're saying if it can do that to the water.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And we have water in our bodies.
		I mean, this is microwave.
		Just like when you go to your oven and you put a cup of coffee in and hit a minute to make it nice and hot.
unidentified		Absolutely.
unidentified		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The same kind of power, right?
unidentified		Right.
		It's all microwave, and it does involve some surface heating.
		So it's not one great step of logic to realize that if it can heat up the ocean to draw a hurricane away from, say, the East Coast.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Well, then I would say, based on that fact that he stated.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I sure wish you could have made it through last night, brother.
unidentified		I tried, sir.
		It was a wonderful program.
		And again, I really wish to thank you for mentioning Sunstroke, not only with Sir Charles, but over the years you have approached many guests with the subject matter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How can you not?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's an obvious concern if they ever were to launch this sort of thing, and here they go.
unidentified		Yes, if I have one second left, I'd just like to tell you that the Japanese in the early 80s, they actually deployed a solar power satellite successfully in a very low Earth orbit.
unidentified		It did for a few minutes beam down space solar power to the Earth and was converted into AC electricity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Only a few minutes.
unidentified		Just a few minutes.
unidentified		It was basically a sub-satellite.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I see.
		Okay.
		And so it was a very short experiment.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		However, it was a monumental experiment because it did prove conclusively.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That it can be done.
		Listen, all right, we're out of time.
		David Kagan.
		David Kagan, author of Sunstroke, one of my favorite science fiction books, commenting on last night's show with Sir Charles Schultz.
		A little too.
		What was it, Mr. Greenspan said?
		Irrational exuberance.
		Anyway, it's going to be a hell of a show tonight.
		Don't go anywhere.
unidentified		Nights in white satin, never reaching the end.
		Letters I've written, never meaning to send Beauty out of the way with this candle.
		Transcription by CastingWords Be it sight, sound, smell, or touch, the something inside that we need so much.
		The sight of the touch, or the scent of the sand, or the strength of an oak roots deep in the ground.
		The wonder of flowers to be covered and then to burst up through tarmac to the sun again.
		Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing.
		To lie in a meadow and hear the grass sing.
		To have all these things in our memory's heart.
		And they use them to come.
		To come.
		To come.
		Want to take a ride?
		To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Art Bell from east to the Rockies, call toll-free 800-825-5033.
		From west to the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach ART by calling your in-country sprint access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is, and this is just what I've been waiting for, a couple of real heavyweights on the subject of HAARP.
		That's who we've got coming up.
		First, Dr. Joseph Resnick.
		Dr. Resnick is an accomplished applied scientist, author, electromechanical engineer, lecturer, holding 26 patents.
		12 of those are classified with extensive lateral skill sets in medicine, electrical and mechanical engineering, earth and space systems, architecture component design, defense Security programs, global communication systems, architectures, engineering, and military homeland strategic defense.
		He is a recognized expert in strategic defense program design, functioning in various public and private consultancies to both U.S. government and Department of Defense.
		You're beginning to get the idea.
		He has directed non-classified strategic national and international defense initiatives for next generation and future space and soldier systems technology research and development programs.
		Dr. Resnick is a recognized international authority who is proficient in the areas of secure theater-wide communications operations, clandestine procedures, encryption methodologies, and the design of secure communication networks within a defense environment.
		He is a noted authority in areas of ComSec, Infosec, HARP, and DIGSEC.
		I only know what some of those are.
		Then also, Guy Kramer is a president and CEO of Hyperstealth Biotechnology Corporation, president of United Dynamics Corporation, inventor of the passive-negative ion generator, and the developer of the SuperForce.com algorithm.
		Good lord.
		DreamWorks SKG Movie TV Studio purchased two internet sites early in 2001 that were developed and maintained by Kramer through his high-speed Tumbleweed Productions.
		Guy has worked with and or corresponded on projects with the European Oilers National Hockey League team, NASA, JPL, Columbia Accident Investigation Board, U.S. military branches, and Canadian forces programs.
		In 2003, Guy Kramer was commissioned by King Abdullah II of Jordan to develop a digital camouflage pattern that surpassed current U.S.-issued uniforms.
		The King, King Abdullah, has approved this KA-2 pattern for Jordanian armed forces and police.
		Mr. Kramer has since developed over 300 digital camouflage patterns, many based on fractals, feedback loops, and some of these patterns being used for concealment training in both the British and U.S. Army training.
		Mr. Kramer is also the grandson and former research assistant of Donald L. Hings, P-Engineering, MBECM, geophysicist, inventor of the walkie-talkie radio frequency system for the Canadian military in 1942, which earned him the prestigious member of British Empire Award and the Order of Canada.
		So between Dr. Resnick and Guy Kramer, we've got one heck of a duo to tackle the subject of harp.
		I've been waiting a long time for this one.
		Be right back.
unidentified		Be right back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dr. Joseph, Resnick rather, and Guy Kramer, I would like to welcome both of you to the program.
		And, you know, this is radio, so we have to learn to, I guess, recognize your voices so we know who we're hearing.
		Dr. Resnick, say hi.
unidentified		Hi.
		Good evening.
		Art.
		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're very welcome.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And Guy Kramer, if you'd say hello.
unidentified		Good morning to those on the East Coast, and good night to those on the West Coast.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that should be pretty good voice recognition right there.
		All right.
		First of all, I've got to say, gentlemen, I'm surprised, kind of, that we're doing this program at all.
		Are you?
unidentified		Dr. Resnick?
		Let me start by thanking you, Art, for the opportunity of this forum on behalf of ASEC and ComSec and thank all of the families, all of our brothers.
		It's the 101st RRC deployed in theater globally.
		No, I'm proud to be here.
		I'm happy to participate.
		And I'm not regretful at all.
		And I'm here to answer any question that I might be able to answer this evening for you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well said.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But what I mean is I'm surprised they're letting you do this program.
unidentified		Well, Art, I'm happy to report historical information to you and information that's in the public domain.
unidentified		And I can only give you that which is in the public domain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of the totality of the information that you could discuss tonight, what percentage of it do you think is not in the public domain?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you were totally free to discuss any darn thing you wanted to be, what percentage of it is secret?
unidentified		Of what I've seen, 99%.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		99% is secret?
unidentified		Of what I've seen, but I don't see everything.
		I only see bits and pieces of it.
		And by the time I get it, sometimes it's 10 years later before I realize the significance of what has been done or what project I've worked on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
unidentified		Guy, on the other hand, is not under such stringent requirements.
		And Guy, maybe you want to speak to that a little bit.
		Well, I'm a Canadian citizen, so I'm not privy to any kind of U.S. classified information on these programs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You can't even make a mistake.
unidentified		Exactly.
		Guy can say anything he wants to and nobody can touch him.
		Yeah.
		My grandfather, who you alluded to there, had actually developed the Dew line, the distant early warning line, and had developed the technology for that.
		So I have some insight into some of the technology and have stumbled upon many of the items that have since become public domain with my website out there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Sort of how I got involved with Guy a couple of years ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sort of how, his websites, you mean, or what?
unidentified		Actually, yeah.
		It was recommended that I take a look at Guy's website and that I have a conversation with Guy, and that led to realization of synergies and interests from people with whom I'm associated.
		So Guy and I have become friends in the interim.
		And we enjoy a personal, professional working relationship, a knowledge of the sciences in which we're concerned.
		And we're having some fun along the way.
		This is part of the fun, by the way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Before we move to HAARP, which is mainly what I wish to talk with you about on a lot of levels, Dr. Resnick sent me an email prior to the program and asked me to keep the lid on it for the moment.
		And I really, I just can't do that.
unidentified		Yeah, well, let's get that out of the way so we can get to the meat and bones of this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, this has to do with the bird flu.
unidentified		Okay, it has to do with the bird flu.
		What I asked Guy to do is to post the email that I sent to you, actually sent to Lisa earlier today with regard to your discussion and your concerns, because I share your concerns.
		And a lot of people with whom I'm affiliated also share your concerns.
		Believe me, this is a real issue with people.
		In fact, I've been invited to, actually through Mr. Kramer, to consult with the folks over in Singapore.
		Now, Guy and I were going to go over there a few weeks ago, but we had to put that off due to these meetings that I referenced.
		But in the interim, I've got the green light.
		Go ahead and do that.
		In the interim, I've sent you an email and mentioned some names in there.
		Everything that I've mentioned to you is not classified at the present time.
		Let's get right to the meat of the avian flu.
		Yes.
		With regard to what's posted, and if your listeners want to go to those links that...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why don't you either go ahead and read the email aloud now or just give me the gist of it?
unidentified		Okay, the gist of it, several weeks ago, a peregrine falcon was found within the continental United States, and the peregrine falcon was found to be carrying the avian flu, and it was dead.
		Now, there's some conjecture as to how the thing got here.
		Folks up at Plum Island think it may have come over the poles.
		Some other folks think it may have come in on a ship from Asia.
		Nobody knows.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why did it not hit the press?
unidentified		Well, I don't know about that.
		I don't have the answer to that.
		And I'm not able to tell you where in the United States.
		I know it was somewhere in the East, and I know the folks I was meeting with had mentioned the location, and they also mentioned it wasn't classified.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At that point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Probably now, not at all.
unidentified		Well, as of today, as of this morning, it's not.
unidentified		Can I interject for a second?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
unidentified		In the Vancouver area, about six months ago, they had to kill about 15 million birds up here because of the bird flu.
unidentified		And I don't know if that news got down to your area, but that falcon may be associated with that as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How many?
unidentified		15 million.
unidentified		There are outbreaks all over the country.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So there's a lot of concern about a pandemic.
		You're using the word pandemic.
		And usually when something has not even quite manifested exactly yet, as in human-to-human transmission, I hope, they don't use words like that.
		It's like they know something we don't.
		They're calling this so far ahead of time.
		I've been reading stories about this now for months.
unidentified		Well, I can't speak for the rest of the world, Art.
		I can only speak for the projects with which I'm associated.
		And that's the terminology being kicked around.
		That's the terminology being used.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mentioned duck, geese, and said, even say the hummingbird.
unidentified		Well, those are possible modes of transmission.
unidentified		Any type of migratory fowl, including those species that I reference in the note to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Could a bird really fly over the North Pole?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that reasonable?
unidentified		Absolutely.
		It is?
		Absolutely.
		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		So migratory fowl, that's mainly how we can account for deposition of different species in lakes and propagation of different fish species, etc., through the migratory fowl, the droppings.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it's a very important thing.
unidentified		So it figures if they drop fish eggs, they can drop spores.
unidentified		And that's a possibility.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's their way of saying they think this is an isolated incident.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One bird flying over the pole or one bird being carried in on a ship and that's it.
unidentified		Well, I think I agree with you.
		It may be an isolated incident, but I think we learned a lesson, valuable one, from a similar isolated incident where a young fellow came in on an airplane in the Middle East or in the Midwest and AIDS got into the country.
		So it's a consideration.
		It's a lot of concern.
		And a lot of people looking at it right now and the appropriate powers that be are taking steps to see that the United States is protected.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you happen to know any estimates of how deadly they think this particular flu would be if it became contagious human to human?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What percentage would I think the 1918 flu was about 30% or something like that?
unidentified		I don't have that information in front of me, but the NIH probably has that data.
		Your listeners could easily find that data.
		I don't have it in front of me.
		I'm more from the mechanical side and the delivery systems end of dealing with it as opposed to the etiology and those statistics.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, you're saying that, again, to be clear here, folks, a peregrine was found dead, tested positive for the bird flu.
		And that's news.
		That's correct news.
		All right.
		Thank you for not making me hang on to that because I wanted everybody to hear it.
unidentified		Well, you left out an important part in the note that I sent you.
		Last night you were talking about buttoning down and closing up.
		There's no need to do that.
		I think that that's a little premature.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, not yet.
		But what I said is, if I see this getting loose in a human-to-human mode, that would be my inclination personally.
		I have a wife who has asthma, can't afford to catch any kind of flu, much less a cold.
		So that would be button-down time for us.
		Okay, let's turn then to the subject that I really have you here tonight for.
		And I read your bios.
		Is that a sufficient background for you scientifically, or should we know more before we begin with HAARP?
unidentified		Are you talking to me?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Both of you, really.
unidentified		That's enough for me.
unidentified		I think you've given out enough.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Guy?
unidentified		Yeah, that should be sufficient.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you currently working for the King of Jordan?
unidentified		I'll take that one first.
		Yes, we are.
		When I say we, Dr. Resnick is working on a few other items.
		We're working on vehicle and weapon camouflage for the country of Jordan through the military office of His Majesty.
		And Joe, I'll let you answer the last half of that.
		Okay.
		Actually, my involvement here is to facilitate complex technological transfers consistent with international treaty and to facilitate military upgrades in the form of providing next-generation equipment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Consistent with current treaties and current...
		No, I'm not.
		I'm not.
		No, I didn't even print out your script.
		No.
		As I was saying, we don't operate with scripts here.
		You can't do this kind of talk show and have scripts.
		Okay, okay.
		Although I find the reason that it had to be generated to be somewhat interesting.
		I mean, that was submitted to somebody at a senatorial level, I'm led to understand.
		Is that correct?
unidentified		That's correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When we began the show, actually before we began the show, the only conversation you and I had, I picked up the phone, and you said, hey, Art, you've got a lot of friends in Washington.
unidentified		Yes, you do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, and so what do you mean by that?
unidentified		Well, the forum that you present here, as mentioned in some of the notes that I've sent along to Lisa, although some topics are somewhat outlandish, there is some degree of truth in some of the things that are advanced by some of your callers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		And that's exactly, by the way, surprisingly, how we designed the show.
		To be somewhat outlandish, but then again, to every now and then get to some gigantic truth.
unidentified		Exactly.
		We do.
		The people that I work with and people that I'm affiliated with recognize that.
		And that's good.
		They like you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I hope that's true.
		That's true.
		Well, that's good.
		It really is sincerely true, then.
unidentified		I can only report historical information to you, Park.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's pretty recent history.
		Okay, so they want some questions answered, or they want the public made aware to some degree of what HAARP is about.
		It's a great mystery, this antenna array and transmitting facility in Alaska.
		And I guess, is it you, Guy, who corresponded with the DOD on the HARP topic?
unidentified		Yeah, they had U.S. Naval Space Warfare Command initially contacted me about this invention of mine, the passive negative ion generator.
		And just to give you a little bit of a rundown on that, it's not available in the United States.
		It's not FDA approved.
		It is Health Canada approved, which is our FDA equivalent.
		It is a small device that works off a material reaction.
		There are no batteries required, and it gives off enough negative ions to be biologically active in that it will, just by breathing in these negative ions that this passive negative ion generator is emitting, you can actually get the benefit that negative ion studies for years have shown that they can override the detrimental effect of positive ions out there.
		Let me jump in here and give an example of negative ions.
		Fire away.
		In submarines, for example, a closed vessel or a closed container, if someone smokes a cigarette, that gives off negative ions and floods the chamber.
		In much the same way, Guy, I apologize for using this analogy, but that's a very simplistic analogy, but accurate.
		It's like smoking.
		I would equate this to smoking a cigarette.
		Cigarette smoke gives off positive ions.
		Negative ions are good, positive ions are bad.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I believe that.
unidentified		But through the decay, through the decay in a closed container, the ions change, the charges change.
unidentified		Yes, they do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And the smoke virtually drops to the bottom of the container, doesn't it?
		That's right.
		Is that correct?
		You see, I have a device exactly like that in my house.
		I've had one for years, so I know exactly what it is.
		Gentlemen, hold on.
		We're at the bottom of the hour.
		My guests are Dr. Joseph Resnick and Guy Kramer.
		The main topic that we're going to be discussing this night, we'll drag as much out as we can from these fellows, is harp.
		That thing in Alaska, that giant giant.
		In fact, we've got a picture on the website of it.
		It's a very large antenna, indeed.
		Take a look.
unidentified		Can you hear my heartbeat in the front?
		You know that the heart of this was Life's a titi-tisaya family Hey, life, look at me I can see the real time Some shepherds took me out of my world I want to fall Suddenly I just fall apart What happened?
		When you find that you love the future behind me You gotta turn around Take care of Say you better beware of What happened?
		One day you're up You turn around You find your world It's coming down It happened to me And it's coming up to you I want to fall I've got to fall I've been lost I've been lost I've been lost I've been lost I've been lost I've been lost I've been lost I've been lost
		Suddenly it just happened I've found my dream To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Art Bell from East to the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
		From West to the Rockies, call Art at 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach Art Bell by calling your in-country spread access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I play this in honor of Billy Goodman.
		Billy Goodman used this as a theme song back in the 80s, a couple decades ago, when I was doing a show in Las Vegas about exactly this kind of topic.
		Billy was doing a very similar show right across town.
		And I just recently located Billy after all these years and had a chat with him.
		He's in New England, and one of these days, we'll have him on the show and let him say hi.
		I was so happy to find him after a couple of decades.
		Well, my guests, a couple of heavyweights, Guy Kramer and Dr. Joseph Resnick, and they're here basically about the HARP Project, and that's where we're going in a moment.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess I would like to understand, with respect to both my guests, what their expertise is in the area of the HARP project.
		By the way, everybody, it's high-frequency, active auroral research program.
		That's the name, H-A-A-R-P.
unidentified		Let's get back to work here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		So your area of expertise individually, Dr. Resnick, first.
		Yes, sir.
		What is your area of expertise or where do you fit in with HAARP, Doctor?
unidentified		Okay.
		Actually, I first became involved with HAARP, or I heard the term the first time, back in 1983 during the Reagan years.
		There was some talk about establishing a new agency called DARPA, Defense Advanced Projects Agency.
		And at that time, I was developing some technologies with regard to microstructures, microcapsules, miniature heat exchangers, that sort of thing.
		And I became involved at the behest of some contacts at NASA where I was working on some other projects.
		And one thing led to another.
		And I got involved and did some work.
		And again, I didn't know what I was doing until about 10 years later, I happened to see some of these coatings that are taught in one of my U.S. patents, the Patent 5, 523757, which is the stealth technology patents.
		And the Patent 5-163504.
		I think, Guy, you've posted those on the website so that the listeners can take a look at them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What are those ones for?
unidentified		The one has to do with miniature heat exchangers.
		For example, on a surface, a surface that impacts a particular radio frequency, as a result of that impact, minute heat coefficients are generated.
		In some instances, for example, in certain kinds of air platforms, that could cause peeling and flaking of certain reflective materials and adsorptive materials, such as RAM, radar attenuating materials, and resulting in exposure of the air flame or platform.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, you could take a stealth aircraft and hit it with something and peel off the stealthiness, and suddenly it could be seen by radar.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did I translate that correctly?
unidentified		Well, you're on the right page, but the significance of 504, patent 5163-504, solved that problem.
		And in actuality, there was such a problem in 1989 when the Israeli radar picked up to a signature of an F-117.
		And I actually came in and did a special initiative under the auspices of NASA to solve that problem.
		And that resulted in the issuance of the stealth technology patents.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What was Israeli radar doing that allowed them to see a 117?
unidentified		Well, there are international.
		Actually, it was picked up at that time.
		We had some craft over in theater over there in preparation.
		And there are exchanges of military components.
		That's commonplace.
		That happens all the time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The question was, what did they do to be able to see a 117?
unidentified		They hit it with 16.25 gigahertz.
		That's the general frequency.
		For example, if you're flying in a commercial aircraft, the fuselage of that air platform is being hit with 16.25.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're saying they hit it with standard radar?
		Standard radar, yeah.
		But they must have done something somewhat different because normally a 117 isn't seen.
		So were they modulating in some different ways?
unidentified		what was happening is the binder material on the F-117s was peeling and flaking as a result of the impact and the impart of the 162.5.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no kidding.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Well, we solved the problem.
		The problem was solved.
		And that's public domain.
		You can go and look at those patents, and that's public domain.
		So that's essentially how, to get back to your question, how I first became affiliated with HAARP, and I didn't see the technology again.
		That was after the U.S. Patent Office and I fought for about six years.
		As a matter of fact, 523757 was in the 902 section for about seven years.
		It had 153 claims.
		I think there are 23 permitted to issue.
		That includes the license plates that we sell that defeat radar and X-band, K-band, that kind of stuff.
		But that's how I first became aware.
		At first time I heard the term was in, I want to say, 1983 when Mr. Reagan, Mr. Ray Gunns, was in charge, and we used to laugh about that because we knew where certain initiatives we were working at that time were headed, and they had to do with the new DARPA situation.
		So that's how I became involved in this whole thing, and I didn't see the results of my work until many years later after it was declassified.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How does your work, as you just described it, apply to HARP?
unidentified		It has to do with the phased array antenna systems.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It has to do with the phased array antenna systems.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
		Similar to the ones out your way, the ones that you have, that are propagating.
		There's some guys up on Road Runner Road, northeast of Peromp there.
		And they say that they're out of UNLV, and they're monitoring outputs that are causing some problems there at Paul Head Mountain.
		And they say that Art Bell is harping at Paul Head Mountain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, yeah.
		I do have, that's just a fine introduction.
		I do have five acres of antennas here.
		I thought it was a big, big antenna.
		And it consumes all five acres.
		Now, it's a big antenna.
		And I do a lot of low-frequency work, guys, in the area of 3 to 4 megahertz.
		3 to 4 megahertz has been ultra-reliable for amateur radio operators to talk to each other 2, 3, 4, 100 miles away, NVIS type communications, near vertical incident stuff.
		And it's always been there.
		I've been a ham all my life.
		And since September of this year, within one hour of sunset, all that stuff is mysteriously gone every single night.
		It's very odd.
		Everybody I've talked to has never seen anything like it.
		I know darn well HARP is operating in around 2.3 as well as other frequencies.
		And I've got recordings of them.
		And I think they're affecting the ionosphere.
		Or at least I think there's a good chance they're affecting the ionosphere.
		Now, high-frequency active aurora research program, that's what that means.
		That means they're doing something to the ionosphere, right?
unidentified		Guy, I would say since September, we've had an unprecedented history of solar activity.
unidentified		Not every day, but we have had we're at the low point of the solar cycle, and we should not be having the solar flares that we're having.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's true, but listen to me.
		That doesn't cover it.
		It doesn't cover it.
		Yes, we've had a lot of solar activity, but at times when there's been no recorded solar activity, it's quiet.
		The KB index is down just about to the bottom.
		There's in the green, no problems, and still it shuts down within an hour of sunset.
		Very unlike the 3 to 4 megahertz range.
		There's something different in the ionosphere.
		Now, straight out.
unidentified		That could be a dust phenomenon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What phenomenon?
unidentified		Ionospheric dust.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ionospheric dust?
unidentified		Ionospheric dust, it creates a condition called marginal chaff.
		And that would have the capability to skirt your signal.
		I don't know.
		I'm just saying off the top of my head that's one possibility.
		We're just giving out alternatives to HARP.
		We're not saying it isn't HAARP.
		We're just saying that there are some things that have gone on over the last couple months that it could be.
		I don't see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It could be elephants marching across Montana.
unidentified		Well, I'm not aware of any triangulation stations or anything out that way.
		If there were, I would know about it.
		I think I would know about it.
		I think Guy would be able to track that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, either one of you.
		What is the purpose of HAARP?
		We've got its name.
		What is it supposed to do?
unidentified		I would say primarily it's probably there for ballistic missile defense.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		Heating up the ionosphere, charging it up.
		Any ballistic missile coming through that charged-up ionosphere is essentially going to be fried.
		And I would say that's probably the primary purpose.
		Secondary purpose, which is probably used for more or less most of the time, is submarine communications.
		Stimulating the ionosphere so you get those extremely low frequency waves that can penetrate the ocean, the ocean floor.
		And I think that's public domain, that this was the primary reason that they were going to set it up.
		And the location in Alaska is the exact location that you want to be in in the proximity to the ionosphere in the latitude-longitude there.
		Ground-penetrating radar, again, that's no secret, but they need to bounce it off the ionosphere, and you need something fairly close in order to penetrate.
		I mean, your adversary has to be within a certain range.
		And so Alaska wouldn't be my first choice for it if you were going to be looking at adversaries around the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes, ground-penetrating radar.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, that was one of the stated goals, that it could locate underground tunnels and bunkers or something of that sort was said, right?
unidentified		Guy has mentioned the militaristic aspects of this.
		And there are other aspects to HAARP that have intrinsic value.
		For example, in dealing with cellular and molecular consequences of the ELF.
		For example, through use of particular frequencies in the ELF, you can cause plants to grow faster.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Say good and close to the telephone for me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You can cause plants to grow faster.
unidentified		You can cause plants to grow faster.
		Certain insects, such as bees, can be stimulated to increase output.
		So there are some beneficial aspects other than militaristic certainly being examined through the HARP initiative.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And crops to grow better?
unidentified		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Stimulation of extremely low frequencies might cause crops to grow faster.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		There's been studies, many studies done on vegetable growth, and they found that cucumbers will actually grow to twice their normal length in a positive ion environment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is a positive ion environment what's produced by HAARP after it bounces off the ionosphere?
unidentified		Well, HAARP can go both ways.
		It can produce a negative ion ratio, heavy ion ratio around the globe, or it can produce a positive ion ratio.
		Now, we were just talking about bouncing something off the ionosphere and being within a certain range.
		But if you're changing the ion ratio, that's a global effect.
		That's going to affect everything from Alaska to Australia.
		Or like an umbrella?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		So again, you've given me some sort of light points of, gee, maybe some of the thought about benefits of HAAA.
		So you're saying that any ICBM coming through an area charged in the ionosphere by HAARP would be destroyed?
unidentified		Could be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Could be destroyed?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do we have any proof of that?
unidentified		I think they have some strong proof, computer modeling and whatnot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You see, I didn't know that.
unidentified		Oh, that's available in the public domain out there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is it coming through such a highly charged portion of the ionosphere that would kill an ICBM?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you tell me?
unidentified		Joe?
		I think the electronic systems would be compromised because they were shielded.
		And, excuse me, in most cases, these aren't shielded because they lack the requisite technology to accomplish the shielding.
		So there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So that is something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would a single installation of HAARP perhaps would be effective against a single ICBM launch or even a couple, I suppose, but certainly no defense against all-out war.
unidentified		I think it could be.
		Oh?
		You're not charging a in this case, you wouldn't be charging a specific area, but the entire ionosphere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The entire ionosphere.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're suggesting the entire ionosphere could be charged hard enough, high enough, well enough to destroy an ICBM or many of them coming through it.
unidentified		Well, with 3 billion watts of energy at HAARP alone, and HAARP's not the only one up there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you know the current status with regard to HAARP and power output?
		Where are they?
		Do you know?
unidentified		I know they were getting close to that 3 billion watts.
unidentified		If the listeners would like to go to the website, HAARP is pretty good at keeping up data.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gee, last I heard, they were around 1 billion watts.
		I didn't know they were anywhere near 3 billion.
		My God, that's a lot of power.
		Wow.
unidentified		Your microwave oven produces 1,000 watts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, thank you.
		That gives everybody some little idea of the scale of everything here.
		1,000 watts compared to 3 billion watts effective, I guess.
		Now, I've heard it said by some people that I've interviewed on the subject of HARP that HARP could literally burn a hole in the ionosphere.
		Is that an accurate analogy?
unidentified		It could create a hole.
		Yeah, I think burn is the right term.
		No.
		Yeah.
		It can create a hole in the ionosphere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Create a hole in the ionosphere.
		And what effects, can you describe any effects that are attendant with that?
		If you pour that much energy into the ionosphere, in fact, right through it, what are you doing to the ionosphere?
		What do we know so far with regard to the experiments they've conducted so far about what happens around the ionosphere when you hit it that hard?
		Is it like a big bell that rings?
		Does it become suddenly very absorbent?
		What happens?
unidentified		In the case of going through the ionosphere, I think you've already answered the question.
		It becomes absorbent.
		It's as if it's not even there at certain frequencies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		It depends now.
		We need to define atmosphere.
		Are we talking trophosphere?
		Are we talking thermosphere?
		Are we talking altitudes of 85 meters or kilometers?
		Are we talking 600 kilometers?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Fine.
		Give me the altitudes.
		The ionosphere being what altitude roughly to what altitude roughly?
unidentified		Zero to approximately 600 kilometers high.
		And then you reach into what they call the mesosphere.
		And then you hit the meso pause and then the thermosphere.
		And then above that, you run into the mixed gases, hydrogen, nitrogen, those sorts of things that are out in the shallow space areas.
		So a lot of the work that they're doing with HAARP and HiPass, which is a second auroral heater array, stands for High Power Auroral Stimulation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where is HiPass located?
unidentified		HighPass is Poker Flats, isn't it?
		No, it's 288 kilometers southeast of HARP.
		So it's not near Poker Flat there, and we'll get into Poker Flat in a minute.
		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, a remote operation?
unidentified		Not necessarily.
		In order to steer a signal, which is spoken about all through the HAARP mandate and work leading up to it, you need three arrays in order to steer it.
		They only talk about two, HAARP and HIPAAS.
		There's a better array that the DOD says was canceled, but if it was better, why was it canceled?
		And that is the FIPA array.
		And the FIPA array stands for, if I can find it here, it is the frequency independent phased array antenna.
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold it right there.
		We'll get right back.
		Three to steer it, huh?
		Three are needed to steer it.
		All right.
		All right.
		Dr. Joseph Resnick and Guy Kramer are my guests.
		The subject is HAARP, the high-frequency active auroral research program.
unidentified		right back.
		Baby on a shoulder.
		It's gonna set in light, molasses in the sky.
		What's in it?
		A burn.
		And the warnings on them beer cans gonna be buried in them landfills.
		No deposit, no sad songs, and no return.
		Yeah, it's only gonna take about a minute or so until the factories blow the sun out.
		And you're gonna have to turn your lights on just to see.
		And then the lights are gonna be neon saying fly our jets to paradise.
		And the whole damn world's gonna be made of styrene.
		So listen, well, my brothers, when you hear the night wind sigh.
		And you see the waters flying through the great polluted sky.
		There won't be no country music.
		There won't be no rock and roll.
		Cause when they take away our country, they'll take away our soul.
		Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.
		To talk with Artfell.
		Call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Artfell from east of the Rockies, call toll-free at 80825-5033.
		From west of the Rockies, call 800618-8255.
		International callers may recharge by calling your in-country sprint access number, pressing option 5, and filing toll-free, 80893-0903.
		From coast to coast, and worldwide on the internet.
		This is coast to coast again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		With our little thoughts for all of you and the radio operators out there.
		I wonder if the Federal Communications Commission became a cheering section.
		And then finally, it passed something called broadband over power lines over the objections of everybody wanted to use a shortwave spectrum.
		And I mean, they became a cheering section for it, folks.
		And yeah, it passed.
		I wonder if the FCC did that knowing that HARP was going to turn the shortwave bands into mush anyway.
		So what the hell?
		Subject harp.
		Guests, Dr. Joseph Resnick and Guy Kramer.
		What I said a moment ago was a joke.
		Kind of.
		Kind of a joke.
		Not really much of a joke, actually.
		Some very interesting things happened.
		Along came this new technology, gentlemen, called BPL, broadband over power lines, a way to get, oh, I don't know, the internet into every American household through the power lines.
		And the FCC just about went into a cheering motion for the whole thing.
		And it went through, went sailing through.
		And so I sort of jokingly said, maybe they went ahead and did that over the objections of hams.
		And you know something interesting about it?
		Not just the hams were objecting to it.
		In fact, we all thought that, ah, the hams will write the objections.
		They'll be ignored.
		But you know what?
		The military, ha ha, they'll come along.
		And in fact, they did in the beginning.
		And they wrote terrible objections to the whole concept of BPL.
		And then all of a sudden, mysteriously, they backtracked on themselves.
		And the military virtually withdrew their objections to a BPL.
		And I wonder why.
		In other words, could they have been told to withdraw their objections because it was something bigger going on?
		Could it be that they knew that HARP was going to turn the shortwave bands into mush anyway?
		And, you know, that was only a half a joke because they're sort of turning into mush.
		Some of the frequencies that we use to operate aren't behaving normally.
		Gentlemen, is that HARP?
unidentified		Guy, I'll defer that to you.
unidentified		It could be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it could be, huh?
		Might be.
		Well, you know, when you just think about it, guys, not just you guys, both of you, it's one of the stated goals, you know, to screw around with the ionosphere.
		Now, there's rumors of everything from, well, the way you guys painted it, it sounded like babies have rosy cheeks and frogs hopped around happily and crops grow, and my God, it's the best thing that ever happened.
unidentified		Bees make more honey, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and bees make more honey.
		That's right.
		And it's a wonderful world we live in as HAARP rains down on us.
		Somehow, it just doesn't seem like Paul would be satisfied that he had the whole story if he just heard that.
unidentified		Well, Guy and I had a little conversation while we were on break here.
		With regard to another positive aspect of HAARP, yeah, there are positive aspects.
		How would you like to throw your cell phone away?
		How would you like to...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's my personal opinion.
unidentified		How would you like to be able to just drop two wires into the ground and pay a one-time fee for a telephone and talk to anybody anytime and never pay any more money?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wouldn't that be nice?
unidentified		Throw away the telephones.
		Hmm.
		That's being looked at.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sounds kind of like, I don't know, like a man who lived long ago invented electricity through the air and, you know.
unidentified		Yeah, but I agree with you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You do?
unidentified		Sure.
unidentified		But you can't deny the existence of ELF.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I can't.
unidentified		Systems such as that would be based on ELF.
unidentified		Probably one of the reasons why certain people don't want people to go into that range.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is all this really sounds like Tesla stuff, doesn't it?
		I mean, it really.
		Not at all.
		No, really.
unidentified		Well, I would disagree.
		I mean, the Russians had the Tesla towers back in the 80s, and the Tesla Towers are just a baby version of the harp.
		Now, the Tesla towers in the late 80s, early 80s, were producing something called the woodpecker signal over the ham radio band.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Russians were doing that, actually, yes.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Over the horizon radar.
unidentified		Over the horizon, under the ground.
unidentified		If it's ELF, it's going under the ground as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So that was underground also.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, guys.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Other than the birds chirping and rosy faces for little babies and all the positive stuff, some of us in the public, and I'm one of them, aside from what effect it, you admit, might be having on the short wave bands, what else might it be doing?
unidentified		Guy?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it's not all chirping birds.
		There's got to be concerns here.
		You heat up the ionosphere enough to burn up an ICBM?
		Are all ICBMs coming in?
unidentified		Guy, this might be a good time to digress for a second and go back and talk about putting a hole in the ionosphere and doing an MBA.
		Moon bounce.
		In 2001, the HAARP site had talked about doing moon bounces.
		And in the late 60s, the ham radio operators discovered that they could send a signal to the moon, bounce it off the moon, and hit the other side of the planet of Earth, and essentially communicate with someone on the opposite side of the planet.
		Well, this, of course, couldn't take place until they started doing moon bounces.
		So HARP tried this in 2001 and supposedly were successful at doing it.
		In order to do this, you need to put a hole in the ionosphere and send your signal through the hole.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So they bounced non-traditional frequencies, frequencies that would normally bounce off the ionosphere and or be absorbed by it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They bounce those kinds of frequencies off the moon?
unidentified		Well, you have to blow a hole through the ionosphere first.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And then send a secondary signal.
unidentified		So that would implicitly command a second system.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So they did that in 2001?
unidentified		In 2001.
		And in order to do that, you have to steer the signal.
		And in order to steer the signal, you need three arrays.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You were alluding to that previously, the one that had been, you said, shut down, perhaps the best one of all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it really shut down, my listeners are?
unidentified		Well, they were saying it was never built, but something's been built up there.
		Well, Guy, this might be a good time to invite the listeners to take a look at that website and the fractalizations that the camouflage.
		The website can be found.
		It's the first link on the Superforce.com site.
		For those of the listeners following this.
		And on that page, we show how HAARP can essentially be gone.
		It's still there, but it's under camouflage, and you wouldn't be able to tell if you were flying a plane 60 feet over it.
		It's like Roadrunner Road out your way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're saying that the installation could be there and not there?
unidentified		Yeah, probably within the Poker Flat region.
		According to the HARP information from the U.S. Air Force, U.S. Navy, it should have been built at the Poker Flat region, not in the area it is in, in Alaska.
		But this is all conjecture.
		We're not sure.
		And those examples on the website, those are just illustrations and shouldn't be taken as gospel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dr. Nick Begich is somebody I've interviewed on the subject of HAARP.
		He believes that there is a part of this technology that could be used, for example, aimed and used to confuse, mentally confuse troops on a battlefield.
		You could aim it at an enemy's troops before the war ever began and turn them into blithering idiots, basically.
		In other words, affect them biologically.
unidentified		I don't know if you can turn them into blithering idiots, but you could.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I exaggerate a little.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But anyway, affect them mentally, profoundly.
unidentified		At this point, I don't know if profoundly might be the capability that's there.
		I definitely believe that they could increase the positive ion ratios to overdose these people in positive ions.
		And that has a series of psychological detrimental effects on people.
		It takes the fight out of soldiers.
		It doesn't make them a bunch of blithering idiots, though.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, ELF, very low combinations of frequencies, though, have been shown, haven't they, to do very weird things to biology?
unidentified		Joe?
unidentified		I think that the listeners can go to a website, www.viewzone.com forward slash harp.exec.html and get that answer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I bet one in 100 got that.
unidentified		I think that's on our website.
		I think that's on our website.
		It's on the website, viewzone.com, harp exec.html.
		That gives you all the frequency ranges.
		And anybody that knows about physiology, you can make your own determinations with regard to impact.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I was also told that HAARP is doing some interesting things in terms of the way it affects the ionosphere, that they send audio tones, perhaps two tones, let us imagine, that beat together.
		And then the sum and the difference of that beat are also produced.
		And in that way, they're able to get to such an ultra-low frequency that they can begin to cause some sort of domino kind of effect in the ionosphere.
		Is this something you can talk about?
unidentified		I don't recognize that to be factual in as much as those frequency ranges are between 70 and 150 hertz in ELF.
		So combination of those frequencies or stimulation would not in itself cause anything audible in that we hear between 400 and 800 hertz.
		So what you're talking about would emanate, we wouldn't be able to hear it.
		Our human physiology just we can't hear that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But again, it could have an effect on biological things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, ELF in certain ways does, right?
unidentified		Absolutely.
		I would agree that perhaps the intercellular fluid, for example, and if the person had eaten, for example, a high sodium content that day.
		Well, it's common knowledge that the different elements found on the periodic table respond and couple and yield in different frequency ranges.
		Now, theoretically, if a person had eaten a lot of salt or had a pizza and was impacted somewhere between 70 to 150 hertz, ELF, okay, it might cause something, but we don't know what.
		And I haven't seen anything to lead me to believe that something like that is taking place.
		I haven't seen it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How large can we describe HARP's influence?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there a way to put a size to it, how big its influence is?
unidentified		It depends on the use.
		If it's to increase the global ion ratios, then it's a global influence.
		If it's to target a certain area, It probably has a limited target area.
		I can speak from the bureaucratic end.
		There's about 16 or 17 different agencies with their hands in HAARP and authorized by Congress.
		So it's pretty big.
		Everybody's got their hands in HAPA.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's politically big, yeah.
unidentified		Yeah, it's big.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Here's a question that was suggested I ask, and I'll just pick it out because how can I not ask it?
		Can HAARP create a nuclear-sized explosion without radiation?
		Now, I can't even believe that you sent that to be asked.
		Can it?
unidentified		There is a patent that the company actually that designed HARP holds.
unidentified		That patent number is listed on that link on our website that we discussed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And HARP itself likely has some things it can do that we're not fully aware of yet.
		There is a link on the website that shows what a grape cut in half, placed in a microwave oven of 1,000 watts, gives off basically ball lightning.
		And it will give off maybe 15 large pulses of ball lightning.
		Now, if you multiply that by 3 million times, you have harp.
		And we show on there that you just need a larger grape in order to produce this.
		So the patent itself actually alludes to putting a source such as methane in a region and then triggering it.
		And one of the last diagrams actually talks about floating a blimp of some sort in the atmosphere and then triggering it with two arrays.
		And this triggering effect would actually create a nuclear-sized explosion without radiation.
		And with a moon bounce.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Methane, now.
		You said methane, right?
		Yes.
		And you could produce an explosion equivalent to an atomic weapon without the radiation.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Using HAARP as the triggering mechanism, setting it off.
unidentified		Well, they could use different arrays, but HAARP, likely, because the company's the one that designed HAARP, the HARP array, was looking at the use of HAARP for that end result.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, you guys are scaring me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I didn't think I'd get this kind of information from you.
unidentified		There's nothing to be scared of.
		Oh?
		No, absolutely not.
		It's all theoretical.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're learning to love the bomb, right?
		You know, Mark, in Juno, I'll ask, I get questions on my computer as we go.
		You know, these are very curious people.
		He says, hey, Art, if HAARP can fry an ICBM, what would it do to a re-entering space shuttle?
unidentified		Probably do the same thing if they had it set up to do such a thing, but why would they?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Why would they?
		Indeed.
		So you guys theorize that the third harp, the third finger of harp, is in fact existing, but you can't see it.
		You believe that?
		In other words, you need three, you're telling me, for the steerage we've been talking about.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you pretty well believe this third one does exist?
unidentified		And I defer that question to a guy.
		I would say the third one is probably the most powerful out of the three.
		HARP is the disinformation.
		That's the location they want you to think that the key source is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about commercial airliners?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are they flying at an altitude where commercial airline passengers wouldn't have anything to worry about, or do they?
unidentified		No, no, no.
unidentified		We're talking about altitudes of 150 kilometers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did HAARP come into use after 9-11?
unidentified		There looks to be possible evidence that it may have been used a week after 9-11.
		Now, everyone in the shortwave community knows that HAARP was actually activated immediately after 9-11.
		Now, this would have been probably a defense DEF CON type situation where they didn't know who was attacking the states.
		It may have been that missile defense side that they would have started up to be prepared.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, somebody pushed the panic button and said, look, if HARP has the ability to do whatever, and I guess you're not prepared to tell me what that is other than the ICBM protection?
unidentified		Guy, let me jump in here just for a second.
		Now, I'd have to disagree with that school of thought in that the HAARP system facilities are using gas-fired circuit breakers in locations, and they use a system of emergency generators that are triggered every 72 hours.
		So it's very possible that what happened during that time period was...
		And throughout that whole system, through Poker Flats, through Greeley, there may be as many as 200 of those that are on a cycle.
		So those cycle every 72 hours, it's possible somebody had a switch open, hit an accidental test shot.
		That was interpreted as heart being activated.
		So, you know, it was probably that 72 cycle.
		You have 200 or 300 of these generators going off.
		I would attribute it to that.
		I don't see it.
		It was a series of strange solar storms, or I should say, geomagnetic storms that we had without a solar storm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		The week after 9-11, when the stock market was falling, and U.S. Naval Space Warfare Command was following my research for the previous year, where we were showing the stock market.
		They follow everybody's research, Guy.
		Oh, they do, yes.
		But the stock markets tend to fluctuate with natural ion ratios.
		And they were well aware that we were showing this correlation on our website.
		I would tend to support that theory rather than HAARP having some influence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		I would.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is HAARP being used for the purpose of some kind of mind control?
		That's a flat-out question to which I honestly don't expect a flat-out answer, but I'll try.
		Is it mind control?
unidentified		Not that I'm aware of.
		Not that I'm aware of.
		Other than positive iron overdose.
		And again, that would be a negligible effect.
		We're not talking about blithering people.
		Yeah, blithering idiots.
		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, the fact that HAARP can trigger a nuclear-sized explosion without the radiation is a new one on me.
		And also, gentlemen, there's been some recent sightings of red skies, red parts of the upper atmosphere that scientists can't explain.
		Anyway, hold it right there.
		We're at the bottom of the hour.
		This is some program, isn't it?
		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		It hurts when there's nothing but a slow-blowing dream That your fear seems to hide deep inside your mind
		Oh, Lord, I have pride by the dead pride in a world made of steel, made of stone.
		When I hear the music, close my eyes, feel real La, la, la, la, la, la, la.
		La, la, la, la, la, la.
		Thank you.
		Baby, I'm your name To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Art Bell from East of the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
		From West to the Rockies, call ART at 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach Art Bell by calling your in-country sprint access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The song always gives me just the right frame of mind to ask the question I want to ask.
		In this case, it's about science in general.
		And the, I call it the, just push the button, Frank, and let's see what happens question.
		In a moment, we'll ask exactly that.
		Evening in the darkness.
		Dr. Joseph Resnick and Guy Kramer are my guests.
		The subject is HARP.
		They're both well-credentialed to be discussing it.
		Gentlemen, welcome back.
unidentified		Thank you, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Pleasure to be back.
		I want to ask you the, hey, just push the button, Frank, and let's see what happens question.
		Surely at the beginning, I don't know where we are with knowledge about what HARP has or hasn't accomplished in the ionosphere, how far along we are, but at some point, or perhaps still at a point yet to come with HAARP, there is going to come this moment where there's something incredible they can try, and absolutely honestly, they might have some idea of what might happen.
		But in science, a lot of times, to be honest, you really get an unexpected result.
		And so you don't always know what's going to happen.
		Well, like when we exploded the first atomic bomb, there was a significant line of thought, scientifically, quite mainstream line of thought, that thought the entire atmosphere might chain react and ignite, burning us all up.
		And yet they pushed the button.
		And so with HAARP, as the button choices come along, I just wonder how careful the two of you feel the button pushers are being.
unidentified		I think they're being very prudent with their experimentation and looking at the results before they go to the next step.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry, who was that?
unidentified		That was Guy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That was Guy.
unidentified		I would have to agree with that.
		A lot of effort, a lot of different agencies are involved in this project.
		There's a lot of policing.
		Just go to any one of the websites and you'll see how many agencies.
		They're all under federal mandate.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The project in its early days, well, it just didn't seem as though it was particularly military at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then it suddenly became very military, didn't it?
unidentified		Joe?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who wants the guy?
unidentified		I think the purpose from the start was probably military.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you do.
unidentified		Oh, I certainly do.
		And I think that the educational side of it is just that.
		It's only a side.
		And the military knew that they likely couldn't hide their involvement in this and eventually opened it up.
		And that's when everyone kind of found out that there was more to it than just university research.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
		I believe these two questions go to you, Guy, because I don't think Dr. Resnick wants them.
		Was HAARP used in Afghanistan?
unidentified		No, but I was sharing information on our natural ion ratio algorithm with the U.S. government, or I should say, U.S. military branches, and just kind of showing them when the mass surrenders were taking place.
		And they were all taking place on the same type of polarity when the ions were the same way.
		And that information was likely used down the road.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dr. Resnick, do you think that this particular ion fortuitous combination was an accident?
unidentified		I would have to defer that to Guy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Guy, was Iraq a target of HAARP?
unidentified		It's possible.
		We knew that moon balances were possible after 2001.
		We had shared information with them on the types of days when troops were surrendering.
		And before the troops moved into Baghdad, HAARP was active for the precise time that the moon was mutually visible between Baghdad and HAARP and Alaska.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A clear implication being they bounced a signal off the moon.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so that would be, with respect to Iraq, the answer to that would be a yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was used.
unidentified		I mean, we can only guess that that's what they might be doing.
		That's right.
		I'd say, Guy, you'll have to admit that's somewhat speculative in that the hard data that I've seen in the sites and the fact that you've come forward with this information to the NWC ops, it's total speculation at this point.
		There's no hard data.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it all speculation for you, Doctor?
unidentified		Well, Art, let me be frank with you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Please.
unidentified		I'm a scientist.
		If I can't cut it, weigh it, or put it under a microscope or run it through one of my machines, I'm real doubtful of it.
		And that's the problem with HAARP.
		In this case, I'm from Missouri.
		You've got to show me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One other speculative thing that a lot of people have been saying about HAARP is weather control, the control of the weather, our weather, hurricanes, perhaps large forces of weather, or perhaps things much more mundane, like putting low-pressure systems.
unidentified		I think that's IOLA.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I beg pardon?
unidentified		He's referring to a new technology that the U.S. government has approved for use in Texas now?
unidentified		I believe it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		IOLA?
unidentified		Texas-based.
unidentified		It's a Russian technology.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it now?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what is that?
unidentified		I'll defer that to Guy.
		Ionization of the local atmosphere.
		It is a rain-making device from Russia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dr. Rosnay?
unidentified		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you ever have to testify in front of Congress, be sure and take Guy with you.
unidentified		I have testified in front of Congress numerous times.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was Guy there for you?
unidentified		No, Guy wasn't there.
unidentified		I testified in Honorable Helen Bentley.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, go ahead, Guy.
unidentified		I'm sorry.
unidentified		It is from a Russian technology that they have used for a number of years down in the United Arab Emirates to increase rainfall by, they're saying, between 15 and 300%.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Increase rain between 15 and 300%.
unidentified		Yes, and what they're doing with this technology is they're basically flipping the polarity of the ions in the atmosphere to force rain to come out of any kind of clouds that might be present.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you know how they're achieving that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, flipping it with what?
unidentified		With antenna arrays.
		In the case of HAARP, they're bouncing something off the ionosphere.
		In the case of this IOLA technology, they're affecting all the ions within the air that we breathe down at our level and cloud level.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so are you both saying that as far as HAARP is concerned, weather control is not an objective?
unidentified		No, I wouldn't say that that's it.
		If it's possible, it's probably way down on their priority list.
		I'd have to say the jury's still out on that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		And then one more here.
		Was HAARP used prior.
		Was it used prior to the 2004 U.S. federal election?
unidentified		It was turned on the day of the election, but that doesn't mean that that's what it was used for.
		I think that what happened was, if I can draw back to Fort Greeley and up there at Poker Flats, they have a system of machines up there that constantly reset and activate.
		That's probably what happened.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, several times, Doctor, you have suggested that perhaps there was an accidental lighting up of HAARP at an otherwise controversial moment.
unidentified		No, no, no, no.
		You misinterpreted what I said.
		There may have been a switch left on somewhere that caused a spike in an energy grid or a gradient that someone may have misinterpreted as an activation of a potential HAARP system.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
		I promised I think it was a young lady that I would ask this.
		So Bear is asking, could HARP possibly affect tectonic plates?
unidentified		Go ahead, Joe.
		Guy and I discussed that.
		My opinion, no.
		I think that something else was responsible.
		And I did listen to that query as it came in, and I certainly appreciate that person's concern.
		In fact, she should probably contact us.
		I thought it was a boy.
		I'm not sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Could have been a young man.
unidentified		I thought it was a young man.
		That young man should contact Us at the N82TDC because he said the magic words, he did the math.
		Our people have done some modeling too, and we found that the modeling and math just doesn't obey.
		So it wouldn't have been possible for ELF to impact that tectonic plate to cause that tsunami.
		I would totally concur with Joe on that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		What are the range of the unknowns with HAARP?
		In other words, what possible things could come of HAAARP that might be, A, unexpected, and B, in some way detrimental to the people living here on the planet?
unidentified		Well, I'd like to jump in here just for a second.
unidentified		One hopeful outcome of HAAAP is to make the world happier.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Happier.
unidentified		Yes, absolutely.
		If, in fact, a system does exist, which undoubtedly HAARP classification nomenclature has been designated and stated, one of the objectives could be to make people happy.
		And Guy, I think maybe you should mention the request you had from a police office over the last couple of days in that.
		Well, for the path of negative, yeah.
		Go ahead.
		I think that would be good.
		Well, the path of negative ion generator can override any of these detrimental effects that HARP is possibly capable of putting out by changing ion ratios out there.
		And to a certain degree, I mean, we're not producing power outputs that a plug-in generator can do, but it is something that can help anyways.
		So the bottom line is, if there is a HARP, you can get one of these ion generators from Guy and turn it on.
		Don't worry about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Now, I know something about these because, as I mentioned, I have one in my home.
		Yeah, they take care of dust particles and smoke and things like that.
		But I don't consider them, I didn't consider them, as a defense, in quotes, against HAARP or something like that.
unidentified		Well, I think that your view of HAARP in terms of its output potentials over broad spectrum is misguided, is misinformed.
		Is it?
		Guy, could you help me here a little bit and explain this to the minimal with regard to the minimal effects of the phenomenon?
		On the positive ion effects?
		That's correct.
		Okay, I'll give you a list of side effects from positive ion winds, such as the Chinook wind in Calgary or the Santa Ana wind down in Southern California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is only with respect to ion polarization.
		That's all.
		I mean, there's more to harp than that, right?
unidentified		There is, but listen to the list of side effects here.
unidentified		Body pains, sick headaches, dizziness, twitching in the eyes, nausea, fatigue, faintness, disorders in salt, water accumulation, respiratory difficulties, allergies, asthma, heart attacks, Circulatory disorders.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Psychological side effects, emotional imbalance, irritation, vital disinclination, compulsion to meditate, exhaustion, apathy, disinclination or listlessness towards work.
		And on and on it goes.
		Suicide rates go up by 20%.
		Heart attacks go up by 50% when these positive mind winds blow through in certain regions of the globe.
		And these are natural.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who documents that?
unidentified		That was done by the Swiss Meteorological Institute in 1974.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
unidentified		These types of winds are typical and have been around since the times of Alexander the Great.
		People have been getting headaches and things.
		That's a natural occurrence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it can be scientifically correlated to this atmospheric phenomena.
unidentified		Yes.
		In over 5,000 studies, they've documented the same thing over and over again.
		Even the FAA had shown that air traffic control towers were low in negative ion ratios.
		And if the level drops below 500 ions per cubic centimeter, and normally you're dealing with about 500 to 3,000 on an average indoor environment.
		Same thing with submarine crews.
		And every submarine since, I think, 1956 Has had negative iron generators put on them, and every bridge of every U.S. Navy ship has negative iron generators put on there as well.
		And the reason for that is to keep the crews alert and awake at nighttime.
		The submarines are a little different story.
		In a closed environment, you have to have something like that to pull the oils out of the airflows.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Still, all said, though, really, gentlemen, it's still a kind of marginal effect that you're talking about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Whereas when we're talking about the full effect of HARP, there have been some claims made that would extend way past a sort of marginal effect.
unidentified		I think what you're talking about is the potential to weaponize such a system.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that's it, exactly.
unidentified		Well, there's a potential to weaponize just about anything.
		I don't think that that's the goal of HAARP or any of the other affiliated programs.
		At least not what I've seen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Certainly, an ICBM defense would be considered weaponization of sorts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, actually, that's a countermeasure.
unidentified		That's a countermeasure.
		That's not a weapon.
		There's a difference between ECMs and CMs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but that's the argument that Ronald Reagan made.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That difference, right?
unidentified		Good president.
		Best years of my life.
		God bless him.
		Well, let's talk about Fort Greeley.
		Fort Greeley is right in the middle of HARP and HI-PASP and Poker Flat.
		And just about everyone out there knows that it's not the official reason for it being there is a ballistic missile defense of the continental United States.
		And just about everyone knows that it's not there for that.
		It's there to protect HAARP, High Pass, and this potential FIPA system that's up there.
		Those are your primary missile defense systems.
		And if anything comes in under that umbrella, Fort Greeley is there to stop it.
		Fort Greeley is a phalanx system for HAARP.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Has there been an actual test?
		I mean, anti-ballistic missile systems that we have have been tested with some degree of failure and some degree of luck, anti-CBM type things.
		So I would think that if you're making the claim that HAAA is a defense against ICBMs, they would have tested that.
		Have they?
unidentified		Oh, I believe they've probably done that without anyone's knowledge.
		It wouldn't be a difficult thing to do.
		The only testing I'm aware of has taken place in cooperation with White Sands and some activity down at Kwaziling, on the Kwazale Natural.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if we had an effective ICBM defense, courtesy of HAARP, then why do we need to continue trying to perfect anti-ballistic missiles?
unidentified		Because if there's a new missile that the Russians have designed that basically goes up and makes a 90-degree turn and flies in under the ionosphere, it's a ballistic missile, but it doesn't actually go ballistic.
unidentified		It doesn't go outside the ionosphere and back in again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
unidentified		And the only way to stop that would be a low-level nuke.
		Yeah.
		But if we use a low-level nuke, that knocks out all the communications in the northern hemisphere.
		So that's verboten.
		Can't do that.
		Unless you have a backup system like ELF.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, some of us would complain that that communication is being knocked out by HARP anyway, right now.
unidentified		I haven't seen any data to that effect, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Probably not.
unidentified		I haven't seen it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I just bet you haven't.
unidentified		I haven't seen it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, something certainly is affecting the ionosphere, and it's one of the HAARP stated goals.
unidentified		Guy and I talked about that just before we went to break.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And you had mentioned something about the red skies.
unidentified		Guy, let's go into that area.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mentioned a story I had about the Columbia crew prior to their burning up in the atmosphere having actually captured on video one particular frame of a big portion of our sky lighting up red, not associated with a sprite or an elve or anything like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This was some new phenomena of the atmosphere just turning red.
unidentified		Hello?
unidentified		I think your guest last night who had told you about it, I think that's where you found out about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I have the story.
unidentified		Okay, someone had gone onto my website because I had posted this up last week on the Superforce site on our paper that refers to the space shuttle and this Columbia accident.
		And we had a couple of years ago theorized that because the shuttle was flying through from dusk to dawn, or the dusk to dawn current sheet, meaning we had the shuttle flying from darkness into daylight, at about that time, it started to experience the major problems.
		Now, I'm not saying that a hole in the wing from liftoff wasn't the damage, but definitely there looks to be a different problem there.
		And we had theorized that it could have been one of these high-altitude lightning sources.
		Well, the Columbia Accident Investigation Board looked at this and said, we've never seen this event ever in any of the materials we've ever looked at, having a high-altitude lightning charge without a thundercloud present.
		Well, of course, the same shuttle mission that crashed captured this tiger event, which is high-altitude lightning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, for the record, by the way, guy, newscientist.com published 19 January 2005, headline, Columbia crew saw new atmospheric phenomena.
		Gentlemen, hold on.
		We'll be right back.
		From the high desert in the middle of the night.
		Yes, we're harping on it a bit.
		This is a really, you know, it's not just cute baby cheeks, happy frogs and crops and stuff.
		It's the whole world we're talking about here.
		Let's rock.
unidentified		Let's rock.
		I don't want your holding me with a tear in every room.
		All I want's the love you promise beneath the haloed moon.
		But you think I should be happy with your money and your name.
		And hide myself in sorrow while you play your cheating game.
		Silver threads and golden needles cannot mend this heart of mine.
		And I dare not drown my sorrow in the warm water wide.
		But you think I should be happy with your money and your name.
		And hide myself in sorrow while you play your cheating game.
		To talk with Art Bell, call my wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll 3 at 808255033.
		From west of the Rockies, call 806188255.
		International callers may recharge by calling your income free sprint access number, pressing option 5, and filing toll 3.
		808930903.
		From coast to coast.
		And worldwide on the internet.
		This is coast to coast again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		With our president, I think it's fair to say that just might know a whole lot more than they're saying.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On the other hand, Dave said a lot I didn't know.
unidentified		I'm out of my mind.
unidentified		I'm out of my mind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		are you It's always a bit of a challenge to get callers on with two guests at once, but we'll give it a try here.
		Dr. Joseph Resnick and Guy Kramer are here, both well-credentialed to be speaking about HAARP.
		And we've been doing a lot of that, lots and lots and lots of questions about HAARP.
		Gentlemen, welcome back.
unidentified		Thank you, Wart.
		Pleasure to be back.
		Good morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
		All right.
		Bill in Knoxville, Tennessee asks straight out, do chemtrails have anything to do with HAARP?
		You know, you both know, if you've listened to this program at all, what chemtrails are allegedly.
		They're particles dispersed by aircraft, one way or the other.
		To your knowledge, is there any interaction, either real or theoretical, between HARP and these particles?
unidentified		I don't even know if there's such a thing as chemtrails myself other than the exhaust effluents that come off the back of engines, and I studied that for years myself.
unidentified		So I would give it a big no, that even if there was, I wouldn't think that HARP would require anything to get where it needs to get.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the theory being, I guess, that HAARP would be able to radiate hard enough to have an interaction with these chemicals, whatever they are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so that was, I guess, the spirit of the question, whether there were any chemicals being dispersed to interact with HARP.
unidentified		I'd like to speak to that, if I may.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You may.
unidentified		First, I'd like to say hi to Bill in Knoxville and that Knox rocks.
		And finally, absolutely not.
		HAARP would have no impact on that that I'm aware of.
		Couldn't.
		Frequency ranges are all wrong.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there anything so potentially dangerous or in fact dangerous about HAARP that either one of you are aware of that in your mind you believe it should be banned?
unidentified		Not HARP itself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now that's a qualifier, if I ever heard one.
unidentified		I would say these rain-making devices, because they're operating at surface level and because people are so influenced by different iron ratios, that those themselves should be banned.
		That's an area I think we're playing with that we don't want to know the outcome of that.
		We don't want to do the research with working devices out there on a general population where this stuff hasn't really been tested before.
		In the case of HAAA, it's a required defense tool.
		Nowadays, you have to have it.
		And before 9-11, my view on something like HARP was quite different.
		My view has changed now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
unidentified		Let's digress for a second.
		You touched on IOA, again, the rainmaking thing.
		I had some experience and have someone in my association who had defected from the Soviet Union.
		And he knew we had a conversation about the IOLA rainmaking.
		To sum it all up, his response was he rolled up his sleeve, asked me if I wanted to buy a Rolex.
		So I got his point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I got his point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		So I think that to assuage some of Guy's concerns and listeners' concerns, I would have to disagree with the fundamental fear that Guy feels in this matter.
unidentified		I don't think it's a reality.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So nothing that either one of you are aware of that in your mind should have HAARP disassembled and never fooled with again, banned?
unidentified		No, it should be operational.
		Absolutely.
		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It should be operational, but there was some kind of butt in there somewhere.
unidentified		Not for me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, it sounded like a sort of qualified.
		Okay.
		So harp's just spiffy, huh?
unidentified		When you're on the right side of the fence, you wouldn't want to be an adversary.
unidentified		No, no, you definitely don't want to be on the wrong side of this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, see, now, see, it's just things like that make it sound like a weapon.
		That's like being on the wrong side of a .50-caliber machine gun.
		You don't want to be on the right side of that either.
		And for the same reasons, right?
unidentified		Well, let me get philosophical here if I may.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, sure, why not?
unidentified		Americans are not a aggressive lot.
		We're a friendly lot.
		But if you put us in a corner, and if we had to use something like this, if something like a HARP existed or one of the other systems existed, then you'd use it.
		End of story.
		That's not to say it exists, but if we had to use something like this, and if it didn't exist, we would bring it into existence and it will exist and we'd use it, probably.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's pretty much philosophical, alright.
unidentified		And it's all theoretical.
unidentified		What was your comment about the sledgehammer there, Joe?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I'm going to let some of the audience ask questions.
		That would be all right.
		Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Guy Kramer and Dr. Resnick.
unidentified		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello there, Wildcard Line.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you there?
unidentified		Yes, I have a question for the good doctor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, go ahead and yell into the phone.
unidentified		Okay, I will.
unidentified		I'm running the internet right now at the same time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, just concentrate on this.
unidentified		Okay.
		The doctor may not be able to answer this question, but maybe your other speaker will.
		The Heart Project, and from what you've been saying, if I understand you right, blows holes through the ionosphere.
		Yes.
		Me being a student of Earth science and also an electrician, I've read quite a bit about the high-energy laser that's located in New Mexico, and he happened to just mention New Mexico.
		And I'm actually wondering, although it's maybe classified, if punching those holes in there would allow that high-energy laser to zap geosecret satellite.
		And I've never heard that question raised before.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, now it has been.
		Thank you very much.
		Boys, that's what happens when we try this.
		It does something really weird to the phones.
unidentified		Yeah, I heard that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's really strange.
unidentified		It probably harped us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so what do you say to that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there a classified angle to that and you can't talk about it?
unidentified		Well, I can speak to the laser in New Mexico.
		The laser is completely experimental in nature, and that's part of another initiative that is in the public domain, by the way, that's used to track potential penetrations into the atmosphere with regard to biologicals, that sort of thing.
		And imagine if you have...
		There's a similar system in D.C. that goes out about 300 miles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what does it do?
unidentified		It constantly scans the skies for intrusions such as biologicals, those sorts of things.
		And I don't think that that kind of laser, particularly with regard to the caller mentioned in New Mexico, that's not the purpose.
		That's not an offensive weapon.
		That's a monitoring system.
		And getting a laser through the ionosphere, I mean, there was that shuttle experiment years ago where they beamed the laser onto the cockpit window of the shuttle.
		Let me digress just for a second, Art, with regard to the caller's inquiry and that laser system.
		In last month's issue of National Defense Magazine, it's put out by the NDIA, which I'm a LIFE member, by the way, there's a nice article in there that talks about the defense system over D.C. that uses that exact same system.
		So you can go to NDIA's website, NDIA.org, and do a little homework, and you can find out more about that.
		It's not an offensive weapon.
		It's a defense mechanism.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A defensive weapon.
unidentified		No, it's not a weapon.
unidentified		It's a mechanism.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hey, it was your word.
unidentified		It's an observation tool.
unidentified		Let's qualify that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Mr. The Rockies, you're on the air with Guy Kramer and Dr. Joseph Resnick.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Everybody calls me Joe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
		Where are you calling from, sir?
		Ma'am, whoever.
unidentified		Bob?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bob, and where are you, Bob?
unidentified		Mansfield, Ohio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I beg pardon?
unidentified		Mansfield, Ohio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have a question.
unidentified		A question is that if you have a dissociation or incomplete combustion of gases in the upper atmosphere, this could result in solid carbon atoms, which when they're dispersed, would just be a colloidal dispersion.
		But if the HARP were to ionize that region, it would cause them, just like in a liquid, to flocculate and come down as strings or large twisted strings of carbon.
		And this would be evidenced as an increase in precipitation like on the west coast or the east coast this week.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Affecting the weather, you're saying.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
		That's with the assumption that the output of the harp system was outputting at a particular frequency that could enable such a phenomenon to present itself.
		I don't think that's possible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You don't?
unidentified		No, sir.
		I don't think it's possible.
		The frequencies, guy, I don't think the frequency is high enough to do that.
		With my understanding of the hydrocarbon and carboxyl chains and the composition, even as the caller points out, marginal combustion had not taken place.
		What he's alluding to is the trails and possible contrails and excitation that the same call, the former caller, had queried.
		That's the same incidence.
		You're not able to, with this marginal HARP system, output frequency levels enough to cause an excitation to combust those particulates.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once again, though, what I had heard is that they're using combinations of very low frequencies, and then, of course, you're left with, we all know, the sum and the difference of those frequencies when they beat against each other to achieve a frequency that otherwise would never be prolific at that point in the ionosphere.
unidentified		One of my areas of expertise has to do with EMF, electromotive force weaponry and emitter systems.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		And in 25 years, I have not seen or been able to reduce to practice in any of the laboratories that I've been in multiple phases within the ELF spectrum.
		Now, it's not to say someone else is not doing it.
		If they're doing it, I haven't seen it.
		It's probably possible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How compartmentalized is the whole HAARP project?
unidentified		Let me speak to this guy, if I might, just for a minute.
		Guy has some insights into this, too.
		I have mentioned a number of times the various agencies.
		At my last count, there were 13 agencies involved in this.
		So it's compartmentalized.
		For example, years ago I was working on a project, and I think I talked about this earlier.
		By the time I realized what I was doing, it was already gone and declassified, and it was like the Oldsmobile.
		So, you know, if it is something happen, if it does exist now, in 10 years, you'll find it in Kmart the way it happens.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		So we're only left to guess about where they actually might be today, what they're actually doing.
		If you could wipe away all the compartmentalization and get to the very core Of what HAARP is up to on all fronts.
		We're just guessing, right?
unidentified		Oh, definitely.
unidentified		The only thing that we can pick up is shortwave radio to find out when it's turned on and when it's turned off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, and we can sure do that.
		Have you gentlemen, you know, I just don't know where you are with respect to the HARP project itself.
		In other words, are either one of you, for example, involved in the ongoing current HARP project?
unidentified		I mentioned earlier the limit of my involvement rests in the two patents that are in the public domain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so that's saying you have no current involvement or your current involvement is limited to those I have no knowledge of anything.
unidentified		other than what's in the public domain.
		I wish I did.
		If I did, I would certainly interject that into the conversation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If it was in the public domain, perhaps, but you're having to be very careful here, so So are you having - if let's try it this way: if you were involved in the current HARP project, would you be able to say so?
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		I think we're all involved in the HAARP project, in a sense, in that our tax dollars support such efforts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just in case you never have, here is one example, or I'm going to try to provide one example in a moment of HARP.
		I've got it here somewhere.
		Maybe I can find it.
		Maybe I can't.
		I don't know, but if I can find it, I'll play it for you, gentlemen.
		Have you ever heard harp?
unidentified		I have heard it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've heard it?
unidentified		Yeah.
		I pick it up on shortwave all the time.
		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's because it's up there all the time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is the current schedule of harp transmissions published?
unidentified		The current schedule doesn't mean anything.
unidentified		You can go to the website.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		wait a minute.
		I want to follow up on what Guy said.
		The current schedule you just said doesn't mean anything.
		Isn't that what you said?
unidentified		Well, I mean, if they're using it 24 hours a day for reasons of submarine communication, it's going to be going 24 hours a day on certain frequencies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a good point.
unidentified		Don't forget the oxygen cycles, too.
unidentified		You have oxygen cycles up there every 72 hours, so you never know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there any reason for the American people to fear anything at all that heart does, ever?
unidentified		My first response would be no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, huh?
unidentified		My first response would be, ever's a long time.
		Presently, I see no problem.
		At least what I'm exposed to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And at these power levels, at three, they're really at, you know for sure, they're at the three billion watt level.
unidentified		No, we don't know that for certain, but I had heard that they were up to, or getting very close to full capacity.
		That's reported on the website.
		That's all matter of public record.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, very good.
		Let us continue with the public.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Guy Kramer and Dr. Joseph Resnick.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Good morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		This is Ann in New Mexico, KOB.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Ann.
unidentified		An interesting conversation.
		What really blew me away was that the site in Alaska is basically disinformation, quote unquote, and it's steerage, the steerage.
		Now, remember you interviewed Will Thomas about a year ago?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, ma'am.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And he mentioned that the whole facility was sold to BAE Systems, which in turn is owned by Rokar International out of Jerusalem, Israel.
		Do you suppose the steerage is coming out of there?
		And also, are they trying to open portals?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's a wild one.
unidentified		Open portals.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think something like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Time portals or dimensional portals or something like that.
unidentified		You know, that's an interesting question.
unidentified		I haven't seen that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You haven't seen it?
unidentified		I haven't seen it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		But I'm not, on the other hand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's an interesting answer.
unidentified		On the other hand, let's not discount that possibility.
		Oh?
		I wouldn't discount that possibility.
		Then I'll discount it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One discount, one non-discount, and one international line on the airway.
unidentified		Then let me offer Touche, because I've discounted you a few times tonight.
unidentified		On the Israeli connection, I'd heard in the grapevine that Israel had a heater array, a secret heater array, but I've heard no follow-up, no confirmation on that, and I have no knowledge that HAARP is in any way, shape, or form being used or run by the Israelis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, very quickly, International Line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Yes, Art.
unidentified		This is Ed calling from Bermuda.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Bermuda.
unidentified		Yeah, man.
		It's real nice.
		I got a little fishing boat that I have out here and take tourists out and try to make a little living here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Great to hear from Bermuda.
		We don't frequently hear from Bermuda, so great.
		Ask a quick question.
unidentified		Okay, I was curious how this place that supposedly does not exist, how do they camouflage it where you cannot see it from 60 feet up?
unidentified		I just can't understand that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, maybe the answer will help you out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gentlemen?
unidentified		Guy?
		Fractal camouflage.
		Feedback.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fractal camouflage.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Feedback.
unidentified		Yes, fractal basically is a design that simulates itself in different scales.
		And so from far away, you'll get the same scale as you will close up.
		And in the case of the camouflage that we've been working on for the Department of Interior, Bureau of Land Management, we are using these fractals.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Gentlemen, hold on.
		Guy Kramer and Dr. Joseph Resnick.
		And we've been talking about some pretty exotic stuff.
		Park.
		And actually a lot more.
		From the high desert in the middle of the night, which is where we do our business, a little different than other networks you might hear on the American Airways.
		This is Coast to Coast AM, Top of the Darkness.
unidentified		This is Coast to Coast AM.
		To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is Area Code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Art Bell from East to the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
		From West to the Rockies, call Art at 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach Art Bell by calling your in-country sprint access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And Guy Kramer and Dr. Joseph Resnick.
		It's up to all of you to decide how much of what you're hearing is the real McCoy, where little nuggets of truth might blossom into full hydrogen bomb-sized bits of truth, and where not.
		It's kind of hard to tell sometimes, and I'll have a question about all that in a moment.
unidentified		You're done.
unidentified		You're done.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, this is a straight-out question to both Dr. Resnick and Guy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gentlemen, would you, if you thought it was a patriotic thing to do, give out disinformation?
unidentified		I'd have to say yes if the opportunity, if I felt if it was a necessity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that is Dr. Resnick saying that?
unidentified		Let me put it to you this way.
		I can report only historical information.
		I'm in the business of factual.
		If I can't weigh it, cut it, or slice it, then I'm real suspect of it.
		I'm the kind of guy, I may BS you a little bit, but I never tell you a lie.
		And what I tell you, take it to the bank.
		I need to add to that that I am a Canadian citizen, and when we say patriotic, I'm talking about Canada.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, okay.
unidentified		Maybe if you posed the question a little differently.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I thought it was posed just fine.
		If you thought that it was a patriotic thing to do, would you give out disinformation?
		Very straightforward.
unidentified		No, sir, I would not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a good straightforward answer.
		Okay.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Dr. Resnick and Guy Kramer.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yes, my name is Josh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hey, Josh.
unidentified		I used to operate a phase array radar, and I wanted to know the definition of phase array.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anybody want to tackle the definition of phase array?
unidentified		No, go ahead, Joe.
		Okay.
		Phased array, you have an array of antenna.
		You want a technical definition, or do you want drawing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think drawing wouldn't be possible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is radio.
unidentified		Well, the best way, go to the best thing to do, go to the Internet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Look it all up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you give us an audio description of what a phased array is?
unidentified		Yes, I can.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Phased array is a system that works in conjunction with multiple array antenna, such as the ones at Poker Flats.
		Some of them operate in the various frequency ranges at 70 to 150.
		What else do you want to know?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so it's a multiple antenna array phased together for a specific purpose.
		Now, it's our understanding that the purpose in the case of HAARP is that unlike all radio as a ham radio operator or as a terrestrial broadcaster, television radio, it doesn't matter.
		These signals start out single source point pretty much, and they go out in almost all directions with some rare specific exceptions or even not so rare.
		We have directional radio stations and so forth.
		But basically, they want to cover as much territory as they start off small and get big.
		In the case of HAARP, you start off big on the ground and get small.
		So you end up with a very tiny little area of intense concentration of incredible power at the ionospheric level.
unidentified		Actually, the way a phased array antenna system works, the gentleman that called, he said he's an operator.
		And he would know that the phased array antenna system, and this will get back to what Guy had imparted earlier, phases shifts of signals.
		And these are transmitted from individual elements in such a way that they can be steered.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's the phased array.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you mentioned it takes three of these large arrays.
unidentified		Guy mentioned that.
		Yeah, I should add to that that when HAARP is active in certain modes, you will find two other signals in that narrow area that are operating on the same frequency.
		Those are two different antennas.
		That's not all coming from HAARP.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By the way, just to get back to it, I did find it.
		Listen carefully.
		There's your baby at work.
		There's one signal from HAARP recorded by another amateur radio operator.
unidentified		Listen carefully.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By the way, this was recorded at about 2.3 megahertz.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's one.
unidentified		This is another...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then there's the third, and I think for some reason with me,
unidentified		the most concerning isn't that Interesting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Listen to those combinations of frequencies that they're achieving, and those two other shifts as the audio signal continues.
		So I won't burden you with more of it.
		It's weird stuff.
		There's no question.
		What do you suppose what we were just hearing was intended to achieve, gentlemen?
unidentified		Well, the name of the array that the DOD says they canceled is frequency independent phased array antenna, and the name indicates it's frequency-independent.
		Those noises are definitely the same ones I'm hearing on my shortwave radio.
		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
		It's there.
		I was just wondering, the question was, what do you think those sounds were intended to do?
unidentified		I have no idea other than what we've been discussing over the past couple hours here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		I'm not sure those are genuine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, they are.
		Yes, they are.
		Yes, that's HARP.
		At least that's what's being at times transmitted by HAARP.
		I guarantee you, that is HAARP.
unidentified		Well, HAARP publicly puts on their website the frequency that they use in the shortwave radio.
unidentified		You can turn to that frequency, and that's the noise that you get.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		There are several frequencies in use.
		Early on, they enlisted HAMS in monitoring their signal.
		That was very early, a very early test, just sort of of the beginning of the antenna system.
		But they're well beyond all that now.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Guy Kramer and Dr. Joseph Rezignick.
		Resignette hello.
unidentified		Yes.
		Yes, good evening.
		This is John in New Orleans.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, John.
unidentified		Yes, sir, gentlemen.
		Gee, what a treat and a real true Sunday with a cherry on top.
		Thanks, John.
		Ever since I first heard of harp, and then I learned how to spell it, I've been running in my head, Joshua fought the Battle of Jericho, and the walls came tumbling down.
		So in my mind, true or not, I'm just the kid at the kids' table over here on Thanksgiving, the small one, y'all are at the adult table.
		But is it not the bottom line of HAARP?
		Other uses maybe, but the bottom line being that weapon to bring down the walls and structures of any enemy, and the byproduct being the way it treats the animals, including the human animals, as you spoke of earlier, you know, physically incapacitating them.
		So the structures and the humans.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who wants that one?
unidentified		Guy?
		Thanks, Joe.
		In the case of people, I don't think we're there yet where we can actually incapacitate a person with HARP at any kind of a distance.
		I may be totally wrong about that, but my knowledge of a system like this would be that it can influence positive ions, and that'll have some effect on people, but it's not going to put everyone to sleep in NORAD in the middle of Colorado.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is the HAARP facility itself safe for people to be at, or is it operated remotely for a reason?
unidentified		Well, if you look at the pictures on the website, on the Superforce site of HAARP, you'll see there's an aircraft radar, very close proximity to the aircraft alert radar, they call it, very close proximity to the array.
unidentified		The reason for that is you do not want a plane flying within that signal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		And they will shut down that signal if an aircraft comes in close proximity.
unidentified		That is about the only danger that you would have in the area.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The implication being what for the airplane should it fly into the...
unidentified		You would upset, you may cause an electrical anomaly to occur.
		I don't think that fry is necessarily the correct terminology here.
		Well, at 3 billion watts, that's assuming.
		No, the question was not an operational system.
		The question was flying over the phased air-ray network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they do, in fact, as Guy mentioned, have a no-fly zone.
		Yes, and if a plane we were speculating, if a plane did go through it, what the actual physical effect upon the airplane would be.
		And I thought the term fry under these conditions might not be all that far from what would happen.
		You have a disagreement, you two, on this screen?
		You don't like the word fry, Doctor?
unidentified		Well, I wouldn't.
		Even if fry is a little bit different.
		I wouldn't attempt it myself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you think fry is sounds harsh.
unidentified		I think that's an overstatement.
		I don't think fry.
		Hey, listen, there's a BAA up right now for a phased array for that young guy that asked me about the definition.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		There's a broad agency announcement at the DARPA website that maybe he should take a look at, BAA 95-39.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		All right.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Joseph Resnick and Guy Kramer.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hey, how are you doing?
		My name John.
		I'm calling from Los Angeles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, John.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're not real out on the line, so you're going to have to yell at us a little.
unidentified		Is that better?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, best you can do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead.
unidentified		Okay.
		Now, I had two quick questions.
		The first one might be a little bit off base.
		But I heard a rumor that an Israeli DJ, who's a musical DJ, discovered a way through sound waves and different frequencies to purify water, and that the Coca-Cola company hired him to work on this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's no way to confirm what you're saying.
		I haven't heard about it.
		I'm not saying it isn't so, but I've not heard about it.
		And I doubt my guests have.
		Have you, guests?
unidentified		The only thing I've heard about Coca-Cola and water was their little fiasco in England there where they were using tap water for their bottled product.
		And when that was discovered a couple of months ago, they shut the process down.
		Oh, okay.
		Well, my second question is if you guys could just explain a little bit more about fractals.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fractals?
unidentified		Fractals.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		A fractal.
		Let's see.
		I'll give you a simple version.
		If you've seen a fern, you've seen a fractal because the leaves of the fern are identical to the fern itself.
		And in a more complex fractal, we could zoom in on that leaf and find that there's leaves within the Leaf and on and on it goes.
		And so you have something that at different scales tends to look exactly the same as the largest object that you can see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Huh.
		Isn't that something?
		And there goes our phone system getting crazy with us again.
		It does really odd things, kind of like I think HAARP does.
		Surely you both would admit there could be unintended consequences involved in the operation of HARP.
		Could there not?
		I mean, surely the scientists cannot know every effect this is going to have or even reasonably guess on what it might do at certain power levels and combinations of tones and such.
unidentified		Well, I know with the shuttle accident taking place in the ionosphere, the comments were made over and over again that it's the ignorant sphere.
		They call it the Dhammasphere.
		Yeah, because we really don't understand it that well.
		And like Einstein says, we know 1% of 1% of 1% of all there is to know.
		And definitely there are things that we do in any science that have unexpected consequences out there.
		And at the moment, HAARP is purely experimental.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, but, you know, a lot of earlier science in America and the world was more local in terms of its consequences, wasn't it?
		In other words, I suppose finally, of course, we got to the atomic bomb, and that became more than local.
		But otherwise, a lot of science is quite local in terms of unintended consequences.
		But here we're starting to tamper with the world's ionosphere, one whole level of our atmospheric shield or what's around our planet.
		We're toying with a whole thing.
		It's just sort of at a different level, isn't it, when you consider unintended consequences?
unidentified		The same analogy could be drawn with regard to medicine in terms of splicing, et cetera.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You betcha.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You betcha.
unidentified		I would agree with you in that regard.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You would.
unidentified		I would.
unidentified		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So that's all I'm trying to suggest, that when you're considering unintended consequences, some of the work being done, as you point out, in the medical world and now in our whole atmosphere, it's so all-encompassing.
		I don't know that we've ever done that before except for that atom-bomb moment.
		Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Guy Kramer and Dr. Joseph Resnick.
unidentified		Hi.
		Yeah, good evening, Art.
		This is Robert from Vancouver Island, British Columbia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Welcome.
unidentified		Listen on CIF11410.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Yeah, listen, I have a comment to make about the power failure that occurred, which may have been related to something to do with HARP in the year 2003, in August.
		What happened is that the Department of National Defense in Canada was requested by the Department of Defense in the United States to build a Tesla antenna at a communication research establishment, which is just east of Ottawa.
		And apparently, when they built this thing and tested it in August of 2003, they apparently basted a hole through to the ionosphere, but it also caused a power surge which blew the grid for Quebec, Ontario, and all the northeastern states.
		What I'm interested in knowing is if this was related to some research that they would have been doing for HAARP.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a fair, straight-on question.
		Gentlemen, as we try and get past this stupid phone thing.
		Okay, there we go.
		I've, too, heard the rumors that man just spoke about that there may have been something HAARP-related that caused that great blackout.
		Any comments?
		Anybody dare comment?
unidentified		I think the reasons were actually quite simple.
		And other urban legends you might have heard is probably part of the disinformation process around.
		Yeah, I think somebody knocked the Coke over on a control panel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You do, huh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you don't think HAARP could have had the slightest thing, do they?
unidentified		HAARP doesn't work that way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And is there any possibility that HAARP could in any way affect power grids or the transmission of electricity over long lines?
unidentified		With a solar storm, we get that kind of an effect, radio blackouts and whatnot.
unidentified		So the potential is there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		First of all, I really want to thank both of you for saying as much as you have said and for being here tonight.
		And note that neither one of you, or they didn't put it on here anyway.
		I guess you don't have books to sell, right?
		You're not selling any books.
		No books.
		But you do have a website, right?
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it actually two websites or more than two or one main one you want to send people to or what if they want to know more?
unidentified		Joe's got some websites there.
		Yeah, they're on your site now.
		If people want to go look at this stuff, feel free to.
		This would be the superforce.com site.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So all the links that should be up there are up there.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there a great deal of information on that website about HARP?
unidentified		With the information discussed tonight, I believe so.
unidentified		Guy's website is pretty comprehensive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would like to ask this, too, that if anything occurs to either one of you after the show or in the next few days or weeks or months that you want to get out about HARP, that you feel ought to be out about HAARP, I would hope that you would pick up the phone, contact my producer, and let it flow from there, right?
unidentified		Certainly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then I'm going to thank both of you for appearing on the program tonight.
		And it's been a pleasure having you and all that stuff.
		And show's over.
		So good night.
unidentified		Good night.
unidentified		Thanks for having us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night.
unidentified		Good night to everyone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, indeed.
		Good night.
		So there you have it, ladies and gentlemen.
		As I said to you earlier, it is going to be up to you, in your own mind, to decide whether what you just heard was the straight stuff, the straight stuff perhaps in small nuggets, or not straight stuff at all, or whatever.
		But certainly we heard things about HAARP tonight that I had not heard before, quite a number of things that it's going to take me a while to digest.
		In the meantime, that's it.
		Show's over.
		What a weekend.
		Thank you so very much from the high desert, Crystal Gale With just the right words.
		Good night.
unidentified		Good night in the desert, shooting stars across the sky.
		This magical journey will take us on a ride filled with the longing, searching for the truth.
		Will we make it to tomorrow?
		Will the sun shine on you?

▲