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Oct. 24, 2004 - Art Bell

02:53:14

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Matt Savinar - The End of Oil

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	So, we're going to go ahead and get started.
	And we're going to start with a little bit of a recap of what we've been doing.
	Tonight we've got a nice, fat hour before our guest, and our guest is going to be a good one.
	I'll tell you all about it in a minute.
	First, let's look a little bit around the world.
	President Bush and Senator Kerry stayed on the offensive in Swing State Sunday as the presidential race roared into its final full week.
	In a television interview, our president said, well, it's up in the air whether the nation can ever be fully safe from another terror attack.
	Up in the air!
	He suggested terrorists may still be contemplating ways to disrupt the election.
	Kerry ridiculed Bush's statement, suggesting it echoed an earlier assertion later withdrawn, by the way, by the president that the war on terror could not be won.
	Now it's up in the air.
	Well, the election, though not very satisfactory in terms of only offering us two possibilities, in my opinion, has come down to, well, it's here.
	It's time for you to vote.
	Nobody out there, and I mean nobody, should not vote.
	You all should vote.
	There are substantial differences between the two candidates, even if not all the differences you would like to see in a candidate of your dreams.
	There are substantial differences between these two men and you need to make up your mind.
	And go down and vote.
	Exercise your franchise and all that.
	Here in Nevada, we are a swing state.
	So our paltry electoral vote, well you never know!
	We could determine the outcome of the election Here in Nevada?
	Probably not, but, you know, by a hanging chad or something, right?
	Get out there and vote.
	The carnage continues unabated in Iraq, if not, well, it's the boldest, deadliest ambush yet.
	Insurgents waylaid three minibuses that were carrying U.S.-trained Iraqi soldiers heading home on leave and massacred 50 of them.
	Just slaughtered them.
	So, it's not, you know, no matter what you hear, it is not good in Iraq.
	There's no way to paint a good face on this, and I guess they've stopped trying.
	The U.S.
	Army has agreed to a Pentagon investigation into claims by a top contracting official that a Halliburton subsidiary unfairly won a no-bid contract worth billions of dollars for work in Iraq and the Balkans, according to U.S.
	Army documents.
	The complaint alleging That the award of contracts to KBR, which is a Halliburton subsidiary without any competition to restore Iraq's oil industry and supply and feed U.S.
	troops in the Balkans, puts at risk the integrity of the federal contracting program as it relates to a major defense contractor.
	Which means it throws the whole thing up in the air.
	Well, Boston Are you watching the World Series?
	The second game is in their pocket now of the series.
	I mean, as unlikely as all of this is, it is so unlikely.
	Y'all know about the curse right on Boston from when they sold the Babe.
	There's a pretty interesting story about a kid who lives in the house that Babe Ruth lived in.
	He was at one of the playoff games.
	There was a foul ball hit, and believe it or not, this kid reaches up to catch it, and he doesn't, and it slams him in the lip, and he bleeds.
	And they're saying, maybe, maybe, because this is a kid who actually, I mean, what are the odds, lives in Babe Ruth's former house, actually lives in it.
	He goes to the playoff game, right?
	He's a socks fan, he tries to catch a ball, it misses his hands, smacks him in the lip and he bleeds.
	They are suggesting ending forever now the curse!
	I mean, the odds of that happening are pretty slim to none, I'd say, wouldn't you?
	This particular kid, who actually lives in the same house Babe Ruth did, being at that game, worried about the curse, misses the ball and bleeds, breaking the curse.
	Maybe.
	Alright, now this is going to suggest what we're going to be talking about tonight a little bit when we get in with our guest, and boy is this important.
	Crude oil prices stayed within range of their all-time high amid concerns among traders of the oversupply perhaps coming this winter But, I mean, where are we with oil right now?
	Let's see, the price for crude futures for December would be $55.18 a barrel.
	Now, check me if I'm wrong, but not very long ago it was $16, $17, $18 a barrel, right?
	no check me if i'm wrong but not very long ago it was sixteen seventeen
	eighteen bucks a barrel right fifty-five dollars plus a barrel now
	all my god of prices are going up already
	I mean, it's just amazing what's going on with prices, but it ain't nothing compared to what's coming.
	And that is what we're going to be talking about tonight with my guests.
	High time we did talk about this, in my opinion.
	Our nation goes or does not go based on whether it has oil or not.
	If the answer is not, then we go, but we go toward a recession and a depression is where we go.
	We have to have oil.
	We have to have oil.
	Right now.
	Until the magic bullet comes along and it ain't here yet.
	I'll get a million emails on that, but provably it's not here yet as far as I am concerned.
	No magic bullet.
	Lots of speculation.
	Lots of interesting inventions, but something to replace oil?
	Not yet.
	So we have to have oil.
	And we don't know how much is left.
	Tonight's expert may.
	I've taken to driving our little cars just about all the time now.
	I don't... We have a couple of really nice, larger, gas-consuming cars where you can feel power every now and then, but we don't use them.
	We use our little bitty GeoMetros.
	Because the price of fuel is just going up and out of sight, and people have to commute.
	I don't know how much longer they're going to be able to do it.
	It's going to get to the point where, you know, gas prices are going to go to the point where people are not going to be able to go to work.
	And when that happens, well, then you definitely have a depression on your hands.
	We'll be right back.
	Just a few other items I thought we should touch on.
	Here's an interesting one, Associated Press.
	Group Warren's consumption is outstripping resources.
	And they have a graph here.
	And beginning actually before the 1990s, the earth began using more than can ever be replenished.
	That began in the early 90s, actually prior to the early 90s.
	People, here's the story, people are plundering the world's resources at a pace that outstrips the planet's capacity to sustain life, according to the environmental group WWF.
	In its regular Living Planet Report, the Worldwide Fund for Nature said, humans currently consume 20% more natural resources than the Earth can possibly produce, Consumption of fossil fuels, like coal, gas, oil, increased by 700% between 1961 and 2001.
	Can you imagine that?
	The world is using 700% more coal, gas, and oil.
	700%.
	The planet is unable to move as fast to absorb the resulting carbon dioxide emissions that degrade the Earth's protective ozone layer.
	According to Claude Martin, He said, quote, we are spending nature's capital faster than it can regenerate.
	And that kind of also goes along with what we're going to be talking about with our guest tonight.
	If you're wondering where it's going to go, what it's going to mean to you and everybody else when the gas begins to dry up, when the oil begins to be unpumpable economically, tonight you'll find out.
	Well, look at this.
	Puyallup, Washington, a school district in Puyallup, Washington, has decided it is going to cancel Halloween.
	Quote, Silas Macon, let them have their 30 minutes of dressing goofy and having candy.
	He just learned the grade school tradition of a party and parade in costume during the last half hour of class before Halloween night.
	Won't happen this year.
	in the Puyallup School District for two of his daughters.
	The superintendent, it seems, has canceled Halloween.
	Now, why are they doing that?
	Well, let's see.
	He says, quote, we want to make sure we're using all of our time in the best interest of our students.
	Well, you don't believe that one, do you?
	I mean, it's golden and all that, but I don't think that's a reason, do you?
	It is the third reason that some parents are struggling with.
	The district says Halloween celebrations and children dressed in Halloween costumes might be offensive to real witches.
	That's right!
	I guess real witches are getting their noses out of joint.
	What are the real witches here that they're talking about, I wonder?
	There are the Wiccans, and they're real, but not... I mean, are they offended?
	Well, I'll tell you, this political correctness stuff... Anyway, there shall be no such ban here at Coast to Coast AM.
	We will celebrate Halloween as normal.
	In fact, next weekend, I believe the lineup is...
	The GIS people, the Ghost Investigators Society, and EVPs on Saturday, and that's electronic proof, in my opinion, of voices from, well, either beyond the grave, or beyond this dimension.
	I really don't know, but beyond, for sure.
	And then Sunday, we will do the traditional Ghost-to-Ghost AM program, occurring, as it should, on Halloween.
	Now, British police sprang into operation after getting an emergency 999 call.
	Now, I guess in Britain, you don't just dial 911, you dial 999.
	Easier, I guess.
	Anyway, here came this alert from a woman, seemingly in great distress.
	They could hear it over the phone.
	They could hear her screaming and moaning and such.
	You know, it sounded, oh my god, like she was being Possibly murdered or something, but actually it was only a couple having sex.
	You see, officers at Durham in northern England became alarmed when this call comes through to their headquarters in the middle of the night.
	Only thing they could hear was what sounded like a woman crying with a man's voice in the background.
	She was crying, moaning, making noise.
	Police traced the number, of course, and rushed to the scene.
	Where they found the embarrassed and somewhat disheveled couple who explained they were messing around, in quotes.
	It happened while we were having sex.
	The woman had depressed, apparently, the nine button three times in ecstasy on that telephone.
	Anyway, the police, you know, they went away smiling, maybe even snickering.
	You know, I don't know what the couple did.
	They may have put it off for a while.
	Other news, a Somerset County man missed a mouse that he was trying to shoot with a small caliber handgun and wounded instead his girlfriend.
	Doug Rugg, that's R-U-G-G, Doug Rugg, 43, of Confluence, was trying to kill this little monster rodent with a .22 caliber handgun when his girlfriend, Kathy Jo Harris, 38, apparently went into the line of fire, was hit in the arm.
	Boy, I bet she's Very unhappy.
	She was taken to Somerset Hospital where she was listed in fair condition.
	Neither Rod nor Harris would make any comment whatsoever.
	I guess the mouse lived.
	An Oregon man discovered earlier this month, you probably heard this during the week, I hope you did anyway, it's a hell of a story.
	Up in Oregon, this guy had an old Toshiba, couldn't have been that old, Toshiba Corporation flat screen.
	A year old, so not that old.
	And this flat-screen television apparently decided that it was going to begin broadcasting on 121.5 megahertz.
	That is the distress signal used internationally.
	When there's a signal on that frequency, that means an airplane's down, people are in distress, you know, it's the way... Anyway, this guy's TV was transmitting the distress signal.
	They had to track him down And he was told if he didn't keep his TV off, it'd be a $10,000 fine for willingly broadcasting a false distress signal.
	I guess the Toshiba Corporation has decided it will reimburse this gentleman with a brand new television and take back the offending television, which perhaps ought to be licensed by the FCC, at the very least, and do what with it, I don't know, but anyway.
	There you have it.
	Can you imagine that?
	Can you, in your wildest imagination, imagine having a television that's sending out an aircraft distress call and then having the feds, you know, on the door?
	Hey you!
	Getting ready to arrest you.
	And finally, Einstein's warped view of space confirmed.
	This one just in.
	It seems Earth's spin warps space around our planet, according to a new study, and all of this will confirm a key prediction of Einstein's.
	After 11 years of watching the movements of two of our Earth-orbiting satellites, researchers found each is dragged by about 6 feet, or 2 meters, every year.
	Get this, folks, you're going to love this.
	Because the very fabric of space is twisted by our twirling, whirling world.
	In other words, as the world moves through space in its orbit of the Sun, it actually warps space-time.
	The results announced today are much more precise than preliminary findings published by the same group in the late 1990s.
	It's called frame-dragging.
	You may have heard of it.
	It's an effect of, well, it's a modification to the simpler aspects of gravity set out by Newton, working from Einstein's relativity theory.
	Austrian physicists predicted time-dragging in 1918.
	Any object with mass, any object with mass, warps the space-time around it.
	And, of course, the Earth is a big mass, right?
	relatively big mass, in much the same way it does that, as a heavy object might
	deform a stretched elastic sheet.
	If the object spins, another distortion is introduced in the same way as the elastic sheet would be twisted by a
	spinning heavy wheel on it, for example.
	So, there you have it. Wildcard Line, you are on the air. Good
	morning.
	Good morning.
	Hi.
	Uh, is this coast-to-coast?
	It is, absolutely, and you're on the air.
	Oh, God, that was fast.
	Well, that's how I do.
	I don't screen.
	I just go... That's right.
	I'm sorry about that, Art.
	I got you and George mixed up.
	Anyway, what's up?
	Two things.
	One, I'm a witch.
	Oh.
	And I have absolutely no problem with kids and adults.
	Are you a... Wait a minute.
	Are you a Wiccan kind of witch?
	Uh, some Wiccan, some Celtic.
	Well, is there any part of you that, A, rides every now and then on a broom, B, steers a cauldron, and all the traditional Halloween kind of stuff, witchy stuff?
	The only flying I do is very rarely in my dreams.
	Yeah.
	Well, then what is all this?
	I mean, why would you cancel Halloween?
	Because you might offend A witch?
	Isn't Halloween a day of celebration for people like you?
	Yeah, I mean, with one of the traditions, Halloween, or Salon as we address it, is the Celtic New Year.
	We've got our harvest in, and our New Year is beginning, starting with the rest of the planet.
	Alright, well, look.
	Here's the question.
	You know, there's children running around in pointy little hats, black and orange, and all the traditional, you know, Halloween witchy kind of stuff.
	Does it offend you?
	No.
	You don't tower in your bedroom going, Oh God, they're going to offend us again this year!
	No.
	No, true, yeah.
	I wish they would, along with the traditional Me no witch look, also do a more normal witch.
	With a smiley face!
	Yeah, he's got a smiley face.
	In other words, you could stir a big steaming cauldron and be going, you know, inside smile!
	Oh yeah, I mean like every time I cook a meal in some way.
	You're working magic, you're working magic for your body.
	I think of it as magic, and in time, a meal appears in front of me.
	The second thing, the story I've got to tell you, this guy almost qualifies to be a candidate for the Darwin Award.
	A couple of weeks ago, a friend of mine called up in Amarillo.
	Listen, we're at the bottom of the hour.
	If you really have that story, then hold on.
	I'll come to you after the break, alright?
	Okay.
	Alright.
	Bottom of the hour, but we're far from gone.
	We'll be right back.
	Want to time travel?
	Go back to past shows on Stringlink.
	sign up online at coast to coast AM dot com the
	the the
	To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
	The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
	To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll free at 800-825-5033.
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	To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll free at 800-825-5033.
	From west of the Rockies, call Art at 800-618-8255.
	International callers may reach Art Bell by calling your in-country Sprint Access number,
	pressing option 5 and dialing toll free 800-893-0903.
	From coast to coast, and worldwide on the Internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	Those drums so kick butt, don't they?
	Hey, good evening, and welcome to the darkness.
	You've reached Coast to Coast AM, and if you're just joining us, I have on the line a witchy woman and she'll be right back.
	Alright, back to finish up with my awaiting witchy woman.
	You're on the air once again.
	Now, you were starting to mention something about the Darwin Award.
	Were you referring to the guy who shot at the mouse and hit his girlfriend's dead?
	No, no, I wasn't referring to that guy, but it's something along those lines.
	Well, okay.
	A friend of mine was up in Amarillo a couple weeks ago playing an online video game and listening to music on the TV.
	Uh-huh.
	And about 9 o'clock at night, it's dark, and all of a sudden he loses the internet connection and the TV, because they're both cable.
	Right.
	Called the cable company.
	While he's talking to the cable company, trying to find out what's going on, he loses his power.
	Uh-huh.
	So for some unknown reason, he decides he's going to go to Walmart, probably because otherwise he sits there in the dark until God knows when.
	Uh-huh.
	Went out to get in the car.
	Noticed flashing lights up the road.
	Found out why he lost the cable and the power.
	Why?
	Flatbed driver came down the road with a load that was 18 feet high and tried to get it underneath power lines and phone lines and table lines that were 12 feet high.
	And took them out?
	Took them out.
	Took three telephone poles out.
	Uh-huh.
	That's a sad story indeed.
	I don't know if it's in the Darwin category, nor would actually the The case of the guy who fired and shot his girlfriend instead of the mouse.
	To qualify for a Darwin Award, you pretty much have to... It has to be a self-help thing.
	You don't have to do it for yourself.
	But it certainly has caught people's attention since they've been keeping track of people who find ways to do themselves in.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello?
	Yes, sir.
	Yes.
	There's been a discussion about them doing something that would interfere with our election.
	And all they'd have to do is tell everybody to do whatever they can to raise the price of oil right before our election.
	Aren't they doing that now?
	Everything they can?
	And you know, there's reasons for there to be the things you were talking about, but why would it peak just before our election?
	I think it'd be a grand time.
	I don't know.
	I know what you're saying.
	If the administration, for example, were in some kind of control of the oil prices, they would lower them prior to the election.
	True.
	Meaning they'd probably be a shoo-in, and so obviously they don't have control over the price of oil, right?
	Yeah, and two years ago the Canadians were going to provide 62 can-do reactors to the Chinese, and I think we ought to have our people with Rita reactors downwind from the East Coast.
	Let me ask you a question, sir.
	If gasoline goes up into the $5 a gallon range, what do you think it would do to this country?
	It would cause us to do what we needed to do for 30 years.
	In fact, you ought to put all of the factories in the United States on a 24-7 schedule, which would save a lot of energy, and put every house on fiber optics and the equivalent of Well, that's interesting.
	So, in other words, you'd be able to turn off everybody's powers, is what it comes down to.
	I'm not sure that I like that solution.
	Thank you very much.
	I understand that it's good to save energy, certainly, but rolling blackouts by computer design?
	No, there has got to be a better way.
	You know, oil It determines our quality of life in this country.
	That's not an arguable point.
	It determines our economic livelihood.
	It oil greases the skids for everything that happens in America.
	So if the oil dries up, so do we.
	And if the price of gasoline goes to five dollars or wherever it's headed from there, we also dry up, as in an immediate A recession and a very quick depression, I would think.
	I mean, it's a very serious matter, and it's getting very serious right now.
	I'm looking forward to tonight's guest.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi, Art.
	My name is Lily, and I'm in Tacoma, Washington.
	Hi, Lily.
	Hi, Art.
	I want to explain why witches at Halloween would be offensive to many people.
	Okay?
	Well, I know that witches are Offensive to some people, but the question is, ma'am, in this story, it's witches who are getting offended by... Yes, do you know why?
	I'm going to explain.
	Why?
	When you see the typical Halloween witch with the conical hat and the deformed hands and the wart on the nose and stuff... Yes, yes, yes.
	The reason why they look like that is because in Cornwall, England, there were Cornish biddies.
	They wore the Cornish hat like that.
	They were women of power.
	They were midwives.
	They were wise women.
	They were usually past menopause, and when the Christians came through and were persecuting women, the church was taking money away from them.
	They would take them to a prison.
	They would torture them, break their fingers, smash their face.
	By the time they were taken out to be burned, they were so deformed and warped, and they had their little Cornish bitty hats on.
	So in a way, it's like having a Jewish holiday, and we have people with numbers on them in the concentration camps.
	I got it, I got it.
	You've explained to me why the witches looked that way.
	Yes, and I always found that offensive.
	Every witch I've ever known has been very beautiful.
	Really?
	So you are a witch, then?
	No, I'm not.
	You're not a witch?
	No, I'm a student of compared religion, and I have a store, and I cater to people who consider themselves Wiccans.
	And also Buddhists.
	And do they complain to you about Halloween?
	I heard the story that I just told you.
	That's how it looks.
	No, Halloween is hollow-ween.
	It's hollow, like a hollow.
	Hollow would be thy name, hollow.
	Yes.
	And ween, the time between the worlds.
	And it was originally a festival that celebrated its harvest time.
	So the seeds that grew into the fruit are now being harvested.
	It's like when you're born, You sprout up, and in your life you bear fruit, and then the fruit is given to the world, and then you die from your body, Art.
	So, in between the worlds.
	That's what there... It's the time between the worlds.
	Alright.
	Between birth and... I think I've got it.
	Alright.
	Alright.
	Thank you very much.
	I appreciate it.
	Well, that gives me a lot of history of several things, but I'm not certain, even though that's a terrible history, why Modern Witches, and actually I guess Wiccans aren't, well aren't, I don't know, Wiccans.
	Are you offended?
	I don't think so.
	I know Ramona is not.
	Now, she, well, we took a picture during this last break, which I'll try and process very quickly during the next break.
	And I'll show you.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi, yes.
	My name's John.
	I'm from Sparrow, North Carolina.
	Yes, sir.
	I'm really glad to hear that you're here at the Research Triangle Park in North Carolina.
	Glad to be there.
	Yeah, very glad to hear you.
	It's an honor to speak with you.
	Just the other night I heard a story about the children in South Africa, the 62 children,
	and recalled a short documentary about a documentary that the late, great Dr. Mack was putting
	together and was wondering if he ever completed it, if it's available on video.
	I don't know the answer to that, but I'm with you.
	I think that that incident in South Africa is a real hands-on, try-and-talk-your-way-around-this-one kind of proof of contact, and maybe even proof of message.
	There's just no way you could have 62 children who have a close encounter For some reason, they all wander off into the woods.
	Unaccountably, they just, alright, maybe children occasionally do that.
	But then they come back with identical stories of what happened to them while they were in the woods.
	They saw a craft, they drew the craft, the similarities were there, they told the investigators and the people who interviewed them, the late, great John Mack, My guest last night, that was quite a bonus of having the guest on last night, he was one of the people who interviewed these children, and they told the same story.
	And there's a message to Earth that we're moving quickly towards some sort of self-help extinction, and we had better get on the ball.
	I mean, that's a very loose interpretation of it all, but that's roughly it.
	First time caller line, you're on the air, hello.
	Good morning, Art from Alabama.
	How you doing this morning?
	Quite well, and how is Alabama?
	My name is Alan, by the way.
	It's fine.
	I had some rain last night.
	The reason I'm calling, I've been listening for a long time.
	I recently retired from law enforcement and you kept me awake many nights.
	I had an incident happen to me a couple years ago you might be interested in.
	I was behind the high school checking doors, as we routinely do on third shift, and I was walking back to my patrol car off to the southwest.
	I noticed three Amber lights.
	I don't know, about 20 degrees above the horizon.
	And I've got an aviation background that goes back to childhood.
	And as it got closer, as I got to my patrol car, I noticed it didn't have any anti-collision lights on it, or a red strobe light toward the rear of it.
	And as it got closer, I reached in the car and grabbed my binoculars, and it was a triangular-shaped black object.
	And it passed behind the football field at about 1,000 feet, Headed toward the, now it started on a 90 degree angle toward the straight north, the other side of the high school.
	Sir, a couple of questions.
	Was it moving quickly, or was it... No, almost floating.
	Almost floating.
	No sound whatsoever.
	Could you actually determine the black mass?
	Yes sir, the reason I could is because the moon was behind it, was shining on it, and it was reflecting the moonlight.
	And it also had artificial lights, lighting on the interior of the of the aircraft object, whatever it was.
	All right.
	Well, but the moon should have been reflecting sunlight or moonlight rather straight up, not down toward you.
	Well, it was the way that I could see kind of the top of it to tell that there was moonlight reflecting.
	All right.
	I've got it on it itself.
	Well, welcome.
	Welcome to the club is what I'd say, sir.
	I'm sorry.
	When I grab my binoculars, they're 10 by 50s.
	I can see when kind of Kind of an oble, egg oval shaped type of window going along
	the side of the aircraft and then as it made that 90 degree straight turn, it didn't turn at
	an angle like you would take your right wing and dip it up to make your turn, it just
	silently made a 90 degree turn and then continued on northbound until it got out of sight.
	Right, alright.
	Well that's exactly sir, what happened to me, exactly.
	So I saw exactly the same thing.
	There is no longer any question.
	There is no question of these black triangles.
	You know, it's like I don't even need to hear more reports.
	I really don't.
	They are there.
	End of story.
	I'm not even prepared to have arguments with anybody about that.
	I saw it.
	I saw it so close I could have thrown a damn rock at the thing.
	So they're real.
	There's only one question to be answered.
	Just one.
	Theirs or ours.
	Both of those would be absolutely fascinating, compelling stories.
	If it's ours, then we have invented some new way.
	If it's not a lighter-than-air ship, then we have anti-gravity.
	That would be a big story, especially in view of the oil shortage and the terrible crisis we face, right?
	Really big story!
	Or it's theirs, and that's a really big story.
	So either way, they're here, they're real, And they're either ours or theirs.
	And those are the only questions that remain.
	Wow, Cardline, you are on the air.
	Hello.
	Hey, it's a great American tradition of scoffing death.
	That's Halloween to me, Art.
	So you think it's scoffing death?
	Yeah, sure.
	Well, what should we do?
	Pay homage to death?
	No, scoff at it.
	You make fun of it.
	You dress up in costume.
	You have a good scare.
	Then you work through it and you go through the holiday season.
	Yes, sir.
	But are you aware that there may be Thousands, maybe even tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of witchy women who are cringing and crying in the corner of their homes because these little children are running around making fun of them?
	Oh, I just look at the witches that got burned at the stake about 400 years ago and they're thinking, my God, we've evolved to get away from that.
	Hey, you know, Art, Talking about good scares, October surprises before the election in peak oil.
	I sort of see them sort of blended together.
	Oh, this is Blair and Sedona.
	Well, Blair, we're getting quite an October surprise at the gas pump, aren't we?
	No, I tell you.
	Well, the October surprise, finding Osama was supposed to be something that's going to happen if you follow the Internet.
	Yeah, I know.
	Attack of a U.S.
	city canceling the elections, which is ironic because Bill O'Reilly had the president on about three weeks ago.
	And with all the bombs dropping in Iraq, President Bush himself said, this is the most important time for the Iraqis to vote during this kind of death and destruction.
	Well, what else can you say?
	Well, I guess, you know, but we should take heart with that, you know?
	And this peak oil thing, this gentleman you're going to have on.
	Yes.
	I guess, in my opinion, our country is sort of like a prisoner in its own energy dilemma, you know?
	We are.
	Look what's happening in Western Europe.
	They're more prepared, but the Americans, you know, correct me if I'm wrong, This demand we have for cheap, plentiful energy without sacrifice or inconvenience, and it's been coddled by consecutive presidential administrations.
	As well, it would be.
	I mean, look, each administration has a great interest in seeing oil prices remain low, and then U.S.
	productivity and the economy remain high.
	That's how it goes, and that's how dependent we are on oil, sir.
	Oil goes up, we go down.
	Oil goes down, we go up.
	That's how it works, and I'm telling you, what we're facing is... Well, that's what next hour is for.
	All right?
	All right?
	It should be a very interesting hour, and if you all have been watching the oil and gas prices, I know you're interested.
	As a matter of fact, when we go to open lines, as we did last weekend, I had two or maybe three calls about the price of gasoline.
	People are really beginning to freak out.
	So if you want to know where it's going and how soon, That's what we're going to talk about.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air, hi.
	Yes, my name is Sheila, and I'm a Wiccan-type witch.
	And I have been for 16 years.
	Are you commenting on the school that cancelled Halloween, saying it would be offensive to witches?
	In Puyallup, yeah.
	I have never encountered a witch that was offended by the Halloween You're not.
	Oh, I'm not.
	I can tell.
	Sorry, excuse me.
	That's alright.
	You see these little children in pointy hats and all the rest of that.
	Oh, I dress my girls dressed that way every other year when they were little.
	And do they go to the neighbors and say, my mommy's a real witch?
	Actually, no.
	We're kind of quiet in our hometown.
	I understand.
	It's a small hometown.
	But, you know, they dressed as witches.
	I have a pointy hat.
	I wear around sometimes.
	Oh, you do?
	I'm planning on wearing it when I give out candy this year.
	Oh, really?
	But do you wear it at other times of the year?
	No.
	I don't wear it at other times of the year, no.
	It is true, though, that as one lady said, well, witches are kind of typecast as, well, not real happy women.
	I mean, they're always, you know, fraggy and downtrodden looking and mean.
	Right?
	Not that I've noticed.
	I feel fairly upbeat.
	No, my dear, in the traditional... Well, in the traditional, yes.
	But modern witches, they're Hooters girls and stuff, huh?
	Well, not exactly, but they're normal women.
	I got it.
	I've got it.
	All right.
	Thank you very much.
	I understand.
	So anyway, so far, the witches I've talked to have not been overly Exorcised, if you'll excuse that one, over the depiction.
	Hello, West of the Rockies, you're on there.
	Hi, this is Jennifer from Oregon.
	Yes.
	And I grew up in Puyallup, Washington.
	You did?
	I did.
	And let me tell you, I am appalled at that whole story.
	I'm like, oh my gosh, I can't believe that they would do such a thing.
	I mean, they're like, I mean, people dress up as priests For Halloween, people dress up as ghosts.
	Are they going to offend other people's, you know, ancestors who've passed away?
	I don't know.
	You know, I've not had any calls from offended witches, really.
	Not really.
	Yeah.
	Are you a witch?
	Oh, gosh, no.
	No, no.
	Do you know any?
	No.
	I could say, you know, a teacher I used to teach with might have been one, because if she was not... But that wasn't with a W. No, that was the other way.
	Well, anyway, it's a sad state of affairs when in a wonderful country like ours, we finally get so politically correct we're worried about offending witches.
	Geez.
	I know.
	It's just, it's terrible.
	It takes away from the fun of everything.
	I mean, they sell all sorts of Halloween costumes at stores, and I mean, Guys dressed up as women, are women going to get upset because, you know, some college guy dressed up as an ugly girl?
	I bet that's next.
	Probably.
	Everything else certainly is.
	All right, well listen, thank you very, very much for the call.
	Thank you.
	I'm sorry the town you grew up in is doing what it's doing.
	Well, and you know, it's a really nice town.
	It really is.
	Otherwise, Puyallup's all right, huh?
	Puyallup's great.
	Puyallup.
	All right, that's right.
	Thank you very much.
	Great place otherwise, except this year they're cancelling Halloween.
	Cancelling an entire special day like that.
	Unbelievable.
	I'm Art Bell.
	Well this is Coast to Coast AM.
	I've had a lot of requests from people.
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	we have given all we have to give now they're blowing it all sky high
	we've given lots of love to the Saudis and they haven't given much back have they?
	you Anyway, oil is what we're going to talk about, and it's a hot topic.
	It's a hot topic because at $55 plus a barrel, we're beginning to, uh, well, we're beginning to get pinched.
	And when I say pinched, I mean seriously pinched.
	The entire economy of this country runs on Oil.
	Duh.
	The whole thing runs on oil.
	And if it gets rare, I'm not even saying cut off, if it gets rare, so will our economy.
	Mike Savinar, I hope that's right, is a California-based attorney.
	He's an attorney.
	He has a bachelor's degree in political science from the University of California, Davis, a law degree from the University of California at Hastings College of the Law, He is the author and administrator of LifeAfterTheOilCrash.net.
	That's a good time.
	That's a good web domain.
	LifeAfterTheOilCrash.net, which explains global peak oil, I would like that explained, its ramifications, and what we can do to address it.
	all of that coming up in a moment this is one hot topic uh...
	Here is my guest, Matt Seminar.
	Matt, do I have your last name correctly?
	Yes, you do.
	Good.
	Good.
	Matt, what got you interested?
	I mean, I see your background here, and I'm wondering how you got from your education to oil.
	About a year ago, I was doing research on the drug war, which is a topic that I actually already knew a pretty good deal about.
	And I came across a site called FromTheWilderness.com.
	You've had the editor, the publisher of that site, Michael Rupert, on your show before.
	That's right.
	And I was reading through the articles about the drug war and related aspects, and I could tell right away that I was like, well, this guy clearly knows what he's talking about.
	And I was actually surprised I had not come across the site before.
	And everything on there is very fact-based, essentially impenetrable from a factual standpoint.
	And I noticed all these articles on oil and the economy, and at that time I didn't really know too much about oil.
	I mean, I knew that it was important.
	I knew that the war in Iraq probably had something to do with oil.
	And the articles were quite terrifying, to say the least.
	Alright, can you highlight what terrified you in the articles?
	Well, essentially it's this.
	Oil production follows a bell curve.
	On the upslope of the bell curve, oil is cheap and plentiful, and it reaches a peak.
	More accurately described as a plateau, then it goes down the downslope.
	Now we've been going up the upslope of the oil production curve since 1859.
	More and more oil.
	Exactly.
	And we've been going the upslope of the global energy production curve ever since Adam and Eve or however you believe that humanity got here.
	We've always had more and more energy each passing year.
	More people, more energy, sure.
	Exactly.
	Now our financial system is based on fractional reserve banking.
	I can go into how this works in a little more detail, but essentially it requires An excess amount of energy with each passing year.
	We need an additional 2 to 3 to 4 percent energy each year.
	Do you mean nationally or globally?
	Globally.
	So that the modern international monetary system to exist.
	Everything's based on loans.
	I can go into this a little more.
	No, no, no.
	It's alright.
	I think I clearly understand.
	You're saying 4 percent.
	I would have guessed even perhaps more.
	It may be.
	It may be.
	But the exact number is going to vary from year to year.
	But the bottom line is we need An extra amount of energy with each passing year.
	Well, I know that I've won a billion Chinese, right Matt?
	And they're all wanting to have cars and use oil at about the same rate we do, so they can have, you know, a similar lifestyle.
	Right, exactly.
	Now once the energy production peaks, even if we're pulling, right now we pull out 82.5 million barrels a day from the ground, Now, once production peaks, the peak of production coincides with the point at which the oil reserve is 50% depleted.
	Once it peaks, we have less and less with each passing year.
	And it declines at about a rate of, conservatively, at a rate of about 2-3% per year.
	That's if we're lucky.
	It will only decline that much.
	The problem, though, is after a couple years, the financial system no longer has that excess of energy that it needs to keep on going.
	So even if we're pulling out 50, 60, 70 million barrels a day.
	That's a tremendous amount of oil.
	An incredible amount.
	As much as we were using 70 million barrels a day back in 1990.
	But it's not enough to keep the financial system from collapsing.
	So once the production begins to decline, the fractional reserve banking system collapses.
	There aren't really any alternatives.
	We've got a lot of technologically viable alternatives, but we don't have any that are scalable.
	And we don't have a combination of any that are scalable, and that can provide an excess of energy with each passing year.
	I think everybody knows we're in trouble, so just to clarify, peak oil means when you're drawing as much oil out of the ground as you're going to be able to?
	Is that roughly correct?
	Exactly.
	We are now drawing, we'll never draw this much oil out of the ground.
	Alright, what evidence is there, Matt, that we have reached peak oil?
	Okay, like I said, the production peak coincides with the point at which the oil reserve is 50% depleted.
	Right.
	Now depending on, there's different estimates of how much oil we have on the ground.
	If you believe the folks who said there's one camp that says we have two, there were originally two trillion barrels in the ground, we've pulled out a trillion.
	So right there we know we're right around the peak.
	Now even if it turns out that we have three or four trillion total, because of the exponential fashion in which demand increases, It would only, even if we had three times as much in the ground, 3 trillion instead of 1 trillion, it would only buy us an extra 25 years.
	Does science not know?
	Nobody knows for sure, but the estimates we have range from 1 trillion to 3 trillion left in the ground.
	And the thing is, you know, there are a couple other ways we know we're at the peak.
	Conventional oil has failed to grow substantially since the year 2000.
	2001, 2002, it didn't grow at all.
	2003, it only grew by 0.5 percent, even though demand grew at 2 percent.
	Well, when you say, what do you mean by define conventional?
	Well, you can divide up, for simplicity's sake, oil into conventional oil, such as that's what we pull out of the ground in West Texas or Saudi Arabia.
	It's very easy to extract.
	It's very inexpensive, both financially and energetically.
	Then you've got unconventional oil.
	That's like the oil stands up in Canada, for instance.
	Now, a lot of people feel that the oil stands up in Canada will replace conventional oil.
	Unfortunately, even in the best case scenario, because it's so energetically and financially expensive to pull out on the ground, we're never going to be able to pull out maybe more than four or five million barrels a day from both the oil stands up in Canada and the oil stands down in Venezuela.
	Yeah, compared to the 82.5, I mean, it's a tremendous amount of oil overall when you sit back, but compared to what we need, it's basically nothing.
	Right.
	All right.
	Have you, since you've looked at banking and you've looked at the state of oil and you can see where prices are currently scaring people a lot at 55 a barrel and headed, we don't even know where, do you?
	Do you know where it's headed?
	55 right now.
	It may, you know, drop down a little bit.
	You know, I doubt that it's going to continue to go straight up.
	You know, you may take three steps forward and two steps back and four steps forward and three steps back and so on and so forth, but the sky is essentially the limit.
	And if you talk to folks who are the true experts in this, you get people such as Matt Simmons, who is the head of one of the most Reputable and reliable energy investment banks in the world have said it's going to go to $182 a barrel.
	It's not going to happen overnight.
	It's not going to happen tomorrow.
	What would that make the price of a gallon of gas?
	$7 a gallon.
	$7 a gallon.
	Just to give your listeners an idea of how devastating $180 plus oil would be to the U.S.
	economy, one of Osama Bin Laden's goals was to have oil at $200 a barrel.
	That's how devastating, that's how much it's going to hurt us.
	Actually, I'd be interested in your estimate of when the U.S.
	economy, based on, I don't know, some sort of curve, will virtually collapse, not be able to handle it.
	At what price per gallon do we begin to collapse, Matt?
	You know, that's a question, I call that the when will the stuff hit the fan question, and nobody knows for sure.
	Because there's a lot of other factors.
	Well, there's already particles falling into the sand right now.
	That's definitely the case.
	The problem is not just, this is only one iceberg that is hitting us.
	We're being hit by multiple icebergs.
	So if the question is, all other things remaining stable, how high does the price of gas have to go before we collapse?
	I really can't say.
	I can tell you this much, I don't think we have much time before the whole ship basically breaks in two.
	Do you own a car?
	No, I don't.
	You don't own a car?
	I don't own a car.
	Wow.
	Yeah.
	That eliminates a lot of things I can say to you.
	but for the average person bones a car and commutes maybe an hour to work
	or forty five minutes to work like down in the l a area and i'm i'm trying to think myself but at some
	uh... three four five six seven dollars a gallon somewhere in that range
	there's a break point for more they virtually can't afford to work
	Yeah, well also what people have to understand, you get a lot of folks who will just in their mind, they'll calculate, okay, well if oil goes to three or four dollars a gallon, how much more will I have to spend per month or per week and can I afford that?
	And that's really only doing, the actual situation is far worse because the higher the price of oil goes, it puts a drag on the entire economy.
	So if oil goes to three or four dollars a gallon, it's not just a matter of the individual driver having to spend more.
	They may not have a job, Because whatever job they're driving to is probably, in some way, dependent on oil.
	Well, and then a lot of things around us, the telephone over here, it's plastic, that's got oil in it, a petroleum product and stuff, right?
	So everything, and then the cost of transport, everything goes up, so the entire economy.
	Right.
	Everything you pay for goes up.
	Yeah, and especially food.
	One thing that people think about the gas you put in your car, what they don't realize is that human beings are basically two-footed SUVs.
	The average piece of food in America for every 10 calories, 9 of those come from hydrocarbon energy.
	All pesticides come from oil.
	Fertilizers come from ammonia, which comes from natural gas.
	And the average piece of food in the United States is transported 1400 miles.
	Refrigerators, tractors, trailers, everything that we do to deliver food is entirely based on fossil fuels.
	As is technology.
	The average computer, desktop computer, consumes 10 times its weight in fossil fuels during its construction.
	About seven percent, I think, of our energy budget goes to the delivery of fresh water.
	And I've got a bunch of articles about the water crisis and how that ties into the oil crisis.
	You can go on the site, go to articles, go down near the bottom.
	So basically without All pharmaceuticals come from petrochemicals.
	Hospitals are entirely dependent on massive amounts of energy.
	Virtually everything.
	The whole economy is tied to oil.
	Industrial civilization can no more exist without oil than the human body can exist without water.
	Thank you.
	It's that big.
	And so you are convinced we are at or past peak oil?
	Oh, absolutely.
	And just to give your listeners an idea of how personally I think this, I want to be in an eco-village or sustainable living community inside of six or nine months.
	Wow!
	And I'll tell you guys, you can go on the site and you can see I'm not some ponytail-wearing hippie, you know, who wants to run off into the wilderness, you know.
	I was as raised in the mass culture as anybody else, and for somebody like me to be, you know, looking at... Yeah, in six to nine months you want to be in a biodome, basically.
	Yeah, no, absolutely.
	Why that time?
	What?
	I mean, I'm under no illusion, because we're...
	Again, this is not the only iceberg that's hitting the ship, so to speak.
	We've got multiple icebergs.
	We've got global climate change, which you, of course, have authored a book about, and your listeners are well aware of that.
	We've got a debt that is completely unsustainable, and we need economic growth to pay, and just even pay the interest on our debts, both as a nation, as corporations, as individuals.
	All right, let's talk a little bit about your timetable.
	You said in six to nine months, and that might be too late.
	Good Lord, what are you expecting and beginning how quickly?
	Well, we're looking at just a complete meltdown of the modern economy, because energy is Everything that we do, every resource that we use in modern society, we need energy to extract these resources.
	A complete meltdown of our modern economy.
	We're looking at, you know, folks who are leaving college today, by the time they're middle-aged, we're going to be in a rapidly de-industrializing society.
	De-industrializing?
	Going back to the horse and buggy days.
	We're going back to the Stone Age.
	Because the thing with the horse and buggy, What people forget is that all the resources that we used to create horse and buggies and all the things that we had in the 1700s and 1800s, those resources, whether they came from copper or silver or whatever the resource was, they were only available because you didn't need heavy-duty, oil-powered, energy-intensive machinery to pull out copper 300-400 years ago.
	Copper used to come out of the mine at 30-50% purity.
	So you could pull out the copper and manipulate it and build something without a lot of energy.
	Now the best copper mines say out at about 0.8%.
	So we can't get copper, we can't get silver, we can't get any of these things that we used in the 1700s and 1800s.
	So we couldn't have horse and buggies if we wanted them?
	We won't have anything.
	Back to the Stone Age, Matt?
	Yes.
	Oh yeah.
	That seems a little radical.
	Oh, it does, but this is what happens when, for seven or eight generations, nobody bothered to plan what we're going to do when the oil began to run out.
	So what's going to happen?
	People are going to be crawling out of the Bronx looking for a cave and looking for a woman with long hair to drag in, or what?
	Essentially, I don't know about that.
	But that's the Stone Age.
	But yes, we are going back to... Let me put this, when you look at an oil production curve, Our energy production curve.
	Yes.
	Start at, say, the year, you know, one year A.D.
	All right.
	It's flat from 1 A.D.
	to about 1750.
	And then it's going to shoot straight up.
	It's a peak and it shoots straight down around the year 20, by year 2050, 2100.
	It's back to what it was a couple thousand years ago.
	So it's almost as though the fossil fuel age is just a blip in the history of Well, this assumes that something wonderful doesn't happen.
	Right, and we could get a miracle, just like there could be another virgin birth, but I don't think it's wise to wait around.
	But Matt, couldn't there conceivably be a miracle a few steps under the virgin birth that would allow us to continue consuming and using energy?
	I mean, we could have some sort of miracle energy source come online, but we're talking about retrofitting a $40 trillion infrastructure to run on a source of energy that we don't even really have yet.
	It's like asking the captain of an aircraft carrier to turn the aircraft carrier around on a dime.
	If we had, let's say we had some energy source, some group or Scientists came out today and they said, okay, look, I can plug this into a car and the car runs on this new source of energy.
	Great, we need 25-50 years of peace and prosperity to retrofit our entire infrastructure to run on this new source of energy.
	And even if we got a new source of energy, it would just allow us to continue to deplete all of these other key resources.
	Because it's not just oil that we're quote-unquote running out of.
	Yeah, I read a headline last hour I don't know if you heard it.
	Group Warren's consumption is outstripping resource, and it has this graph here showing that we're now about 20% above what the earth can fix in terms of what we consume.
	Right.
	But what a new source of energy would allow us to do is to continue to deplete all these other resources.
	So we would ultimately, if we gained access to some sort of, for instance, free energy.
	A lot of people, I get emails from all the time, people say, well, new energy or free energy is about to come online.
	I say, great, we're going to completely lay the planet bare if we gain access to that stuff.
	Alright, what about all the religious people out there who say, you know what, he may be right, Matt might be right, but it doesn't matter because all the Christians are going to get sucked up And it's going to happen just before all the world's resources are gone.
	And God planned for us to use these resources, and we're using them as we're supposed to.
	And don't worry about it.
	Everybody's going to go, you know, over there when the time comes.
	There are a lot of those people, Matt.
	Well, if somebody believed that, I don't really know what to... There's not anything I can say to dissuade them from believing that.
	You know, look, I'm trained as an attorney, so I'm used to dealing with fact that I can present before a jury.
	Yes.
	And I cannot prove by any standard of proof in front of a jury.
	No, you can't.
	All you can say is, look, you may need some oil to grease your way to heaven or whatever.
	I don't know.
	Now, hold on.
	We're at the bottom of the hour here, and we'll be right back.
	I'm Art Bell.
	This, in the nighttime, is Coast to Coast AM.
	stay right where you are It's not a call, love is good, love can be strong, baby.
	When you first came my way?
	My revolution Do you remember that day?
	Surely you do When you first came my way
	I said no one could take your place Kahooka, hooka, hookasha, kahooka, hooka.
	Girl, you just don't realize what you do to me.
	Deep inside of me Girl you just don't realize
	What you do to me When you hold me
	In your arms so tight You let me know
	Everything's alright I'm
	Clipped on a feeling I'm high on a reading
	That you're in love with me It's as sweet as candy
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	I just stay up at ten.
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	That's us.
	Hooked on oil.
	And there's not a damn thing that we can do about it.
	We've got to pay whatever the price is.
	800-893-0903. From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM
	with Art Bell.
	Hooked on dinosaur leavens, that's us. Hooked on oil, and there's not a damn thing that
	we can do about it. We've got to pay whatever the price is, and the price is beginning to
	get out of control.
	Perhaps it's fair to say Matt Savinar is kind of pessimistic about the way we're headed
	right now with oil, actually.
	He plans to move into a biodome.
	A biodome?
	Within the next six to nine months, he says.
	Craig in Navajo writes, hi Art, great show.
	How exactly would someone be able to join a biodome tribe?
	Is everyone invited or just a few?
	Well, no, I'm not planning on living in a biodome.
	Well, I may have said that.
	What was your word?
	I said eco-village or some type of sustainable living community.
	You can go online, just Google eco-village or intentional community or sustainable living community and you can start doing research on it.
	It's something that previously I had planned and I thought to myself, well, maybe I can open up a bicycle shop or just do my own organic gardening here in the little plot that I have in front of my apartment.
	Those would be viable solutions if I thought that we were just going into a second Great Depression and that eventually we're going to come out of it.
	The thing is, like I said in the first segment, we're looking at a total collapse of industrial civilization.
	So I want it myself and anybody who is aware and awake of what's going on want to get into a situation where at least my food and water and energy Are as off the grid, and are as least dependent on an abundant supply of fossil fuels as possible.
	Excellent, Matt.
	But, there may have been something here you've forgotten.
	What's that?
	Well, if you get into your sustainable community, and the rest of the world collapses around you, then it's going to be a Mad Max kind of world, at the very least.
	Oh yeah, I tell people, look, there is no safe place, and I'm not under any illusion That there is a living situation that is truly secure.
	But living in the cities or the suburbs where you're entirely dependent on the government maintaining services, on the water pumping and on the energy coming, on the gasoline pumping, that is probably about the worst situation that I think that you could be in.
	Because imagine the blackout in New York.
	Imagine that had lasted for two or three weeks.
	Now we're not heading into that type of situation immediately, but what you will see is we slide down this oil production, energy production downslope, and as the economy begins to fall apart you will see Blackouts become more and more frequent, and they'll get longer and longer, and you'll start to see things like the price of water go up.
	Right, okay, well you call it a cataclysm, Matt, and you even apparently can estimate how many are going to die.
	Right, because if you look at what every species does, whether it's bacteria, whether it's reindeer, pretty much every species, when they're given access to abundant resources, they grow Yes.
	Their population grows in an exponential fashion.
	Yes.
	It follows what's called a J-curve.
	Certainly.
	And the last generation will have 50% of the resources left.
	And that last generation will consume every last bit of the resources, and then the population will crash by 95% to 99%.
	Now, if you look at the human population, it's Followed a J-curve.
	You're saying 95 to 99 percent of the world's population will die?
	Yeah, most likely.
	If you look at it, if we follow the path of every other species that is given access to abundant resources and just allowed to consume them at will, they all follow a J-curve.
	They start off flat, it shoots straight up, and then it drops straight down.
	And if you look at the human population, since Finding, you know, since gaining access to abundant food, which came from basically abundant fossil fuels, it's followed a J-curve also.
	And right now, we are, we will probably, if all the experts are correct, we've got enough fossil fuels to last basically one generation.
	And if the last four or five years are any indicator of what the rest of this generation is going to experience, we're going to end up fighting for every last drop.
	Boy, I thought I was a pessimist, Matt.
	You make me look like a piker.
	So, one more generation of... Or are we in the last generation of oil?
	Well, we're in the... You know, if you look, we've got... Economically feasible oil.
	Yeah, we've got about one generation of economically feasible oil.
	Now, we'll probably be... Somebody on the planet will probably still be using oil in some capacity even 100 or 150 years from now.
	But that will be a relatively small number of people who will have access to what we would consider modern energy.
	Alright, so that percentage of people are due to die unless something happens.
	Alright, let's talk about that for a second.
	There are alternatives now.
	There are some.
	There's solar, wind, hydrogen.
	They're talking that one up big in California and nationally.
	Biomass, ethanol.
	All these things that we're sort of toying with at the margins, what do you see there?
	Well, all of these alternatives are technologically viable.
	There's a big difference between something being technologically viable and it being scalable to the degree that we need as quickly as we need.
	If we had 25 to 50 years of peace and prosperity, of political will, international cooperation, massive amount of investment capital, and a couple technological miracles, I'm an optimist in saying that maybe if we could get three, the energy equivalent of three or four or five billion barrels of oil per year from these alternative sources.
	Well, another virgin birth is more likely.
	Right, now the thing is though, now this is an optimistic scenario I'm painting here.
	If we were able to get For the energy equivalent, four or five billion barrels of oil, from these energy alternatives, that would be an accomplishment that would make going to the moon look like walking across the street.
	Alright, of those, what looks viable to you, or more likely a better shot than other?
	Well, probably wind is probably the most scalable of all of the alternatives.
	What is it presently?
	7 cents a kilowatt hour?
	Less than that?
	Yeah, I think it's right around there.
	The thing with wind is it's actually becoming competitive with fossil fuel derived energy.
	Right.
	The problem is you can't really get more than 20% electrical grid.
	You can't really get more than 20% of the energy from wind or solar, which is, solar's not quite as good as wind.
	It can't deliver the consistent level of energy that industrial society needs.
	If you go into Afghanistan and you hook up a primitive village with solar panels and windmills, their level of living is going to shoot through the ceiling.
	But you can't run our modern industrial economy on solar and wind.
	And if you want to just use it as an example, look at an airport.
	You can't run an airport on a source of energy that's intermittent.
	An airport needs energy, a massive amount of energy, 24-7.
	And these are things that, solar and wind, you know, can you as an individual get solar panels or windmills hooked up to your home?
	Yes, absolutely, and we should be investing and putting money and time and energy into these things, but we can't run a world economy that requires 30 billion barrels of oil on these alternatives.
	No, but we can certainly put off the Stone Age date if we begin doing that like crazy, and how come we're not?
	Well, for one thing, it's just that these alternatives are very expensive compared to oil.
	The amount of energy that's contained in a barrel of oil, if you were to get that from renewable resources, it would cost between $100 and $250.
	Okay, but somewhere here we can put a scale together, and as the price of the barrel of oil goes up from $55 to $100 to $150, somewhere in that range Solar and wind begin to look very economically attractive.
	Right.
	They may be economically attractive.
	They may be competitive with oil.
	That doesn't mean, at that point, with fossil fuels, once we get to $150 to $200 a barrel, but our economy will be completely devastated with $150 or $200 per barrel oil.
	The market won't give the signal to begin investing in these alternatives until it's too late.
	So we're in a catch-22.
	We're waiting for the market to give us a signal, but it's like a tidal wave.
	Once you see it, and once you realize how dangerous it is... You're already dead.
	Exactly.
	And even if we began switching, we would probably, if we wait for the market to give us that signal, we would probably experience about a 75% reduction in the availability of energy to the non-energy aspects of the economy.
	And there's a book on this that you can get called Beyond Oil Threat to Food and Fuel in the Coming Decades.
	That's where I got that from.
	The thing is, there's really no way out of this without a massive economic collapse.
	Because like I said before, it's not enough that we can scale these alternatives up to give us the energy equivalent of 5 or 15 or 20 or even 25 billion barrels of oil.
	We need a constantly, our economy, our monetary system requires a constantly increasing supply of energy.
	A caller in the first hour of the show, Matt, made an interesting observation.
	You know, the American people have always been kind of convinced that our government controls the price of gas at the pump, for example.
	And, you know, they curse them and the oil companies and all the rest of it when the price goes up.
	The fact of the matter is, we're on the cusp of an election.
	We're just about to have an election.
	And if George Bush, in any way in this world that I could see, were able to control the price of oil and the price of gas at the pump, he would have already done so.
	Because to have it spiraling up the way it is right now, just before the election, is as bad as you can get.
	Yeah, exactly.
	And that's also true for the oil companies.
	Because, you know, clearly, You've got George Bush, he's an oil man, his family is an oil family, and Dick Cheney is the former CEO of an oil services company.
	So, big oil likes Bush and Cheney.
	Now, if big oil had their way, They'd make sure that Bush and Cheney are going to be in office again.
	So, what that means is that if our government could control it, it would have by now.
	If the oil companies could control the price, they'd be in cooperation with President Bush and they would have lowered the price.
	So, the price is absolutely uncontrollable by forces that we understand.
	Is that correct?
	Correct.
	That should tell your listeners who are sort of in the denial camp how out of control the situation is.
	Typically, something like this would be manipulated for political purposes, but it's so out of control that it's now getting difficult for even our politicians and oil companies and whoever else you want to artificially blame to control it for political purposes.
	Well, hell, there's got to be somebody we can blame.
	You blame the previous, all of, you know who you blame, you look in the mirror.
	Because for generations now, every time somebody stood up and said, We need to figure out what we're going to do when we begin to run out of oil.
	Now, again, running out is not the problem.
	When you begin, when you pass the 50% mark is when you begin to run into problems.
	But every time somebody stood up and said that, what would happen?
	Oh, you're a pessimist.
	You're a pessimist.
	Don't hear, oh wow, you're anti-American because you're suggesting we not drive big cars or because of whatever.
	And so we don't really have, you know, people want to blame our leaders.
	And, you know, there's certainly, you know, share a large portion of the blame, but you really get the leadership that you deserve.
	Yeah.
	And, you know, so it's really nobody's fault but our own.
	And, you know, all the previous generations, nobody whom decided, gee, maybe we should figure out what we're going to do when we start to run out of this stuff.
	And now we're, now we're dealing with, now the generations that are alive today get to deal with the ramifications.
	Well, American companies rarely think past the next quarter, and politicians aren't all that different from American companies.
	They just, they don't think ahead.
	Even though you could make the case that, you know, a person we elect as President of the U.S.
	is charged with thinking ahead.
	And doing what's best for the country, but I guess even they, like the companies, can't think long-term anymore.
	So this is inevitable.
	This cataclysm you're talking about, it's inevitable.
	It's going to happen.
	It's as inevitable as death.
	Because if you look at the life of an oil field, if you look at the life of anything, whether it's a human cell, a human life, a civilization, an oil field, they all follow a bell curve.
	They start off kind of flat, and they reach a peak of productivity generally at the 50% mark of their life.
	This is true whether we're talking about a human being.
	It generally reaches their peak of productivity at about the 50% mark in their life.
	Or an oil field, which reaches its peak of productivity at about the 50% mark in its life.
	Alright, well, are you talking now about oil reserves that we know of?
	I mean, let's for a second talk about this.
	There's the Caspian Sea.
	There's, I hear, an awful lot of oil in Russia, and they're just beginning to crank up to exploit that.
	We have ANWR.
	We haven't touched that yet.
	And then there's domestic oil reserves.
	We haven't touched those yet.
	So, I mean, as you look around the world at these possible locations where drilling could begin, Are you encouraged at all?
	No.
	Our Caspian, we thought it had over 200 billion barrels.
	Yeah.
	Turns out it's only got 20 to 40.
	We use 30 billion per year.
	Once we realized that the Caspian Sea was the oil bust of the century, not the oil find of the century, not coincidentally, all of a sudden we turned to Iraq.
	Okay.
	Oh, Iraq.
	Away from Afghanistan, we turned to Iraq, because part of one of the reasons we were in Afghanistan was the drill pipeline.
	Now, ANWR, According to the Department of Energy, if we drill ANWR at lower oil prices by a whopping 50%, there's only enough oil in ANWR to satisfy U.S.
	demand for about six months.
	Now, it'll make a lot of money for the companies that get to do the drilling, which is why you hear all of the controversy about it, but for the average person, it won't make much of a difference.
	Now, like I said in the first segment, we think we've got a trillion barrels left.
	Even if it turns out we have 3 trillion, and all 3 trillion are of that sweet West Texas or Saudi Arabia crude that's very easy to pull out of the ground, it still only puts the crisis off by 25-30 years.
	We've waited so long to deal with this, that finding a large amount of oil, or what we used to consider a large amount of oil, it would make almost no difference.
	How much oil is in Iraq?
	Um, Iraq has got proven reserves of 115, I think of 115 billion barrels.
	That's second only to Saudi Arabia.
	Saudi Arabia's got, they say that they've got 260 billion.
	Now I say that with qualification because what happened back in the mid to late 80s, they changed, the OPEC changed their rules so that the amount of oil that an OPEC nation could export was based on how much They reported in reserve, and then all of a sudden they all reported massive reserve growth without any corresponding findings and discovery.
	So we really don't know.
	When people say, well, how much oil is left?
	I say, well, depending on who you talk to, between $1 trillion and $3 trillion.
	A, even if it's $3 trillion, we're still looking at a massive crisis within 25 years.
	And B, we are much more likely to have less than we think we have than we have more.
	All right.
	I'm going to ask you a hard question which you don't have to answer.
	If you don't want to.
	Okay.
	But I'm going to make you the President of the U.S., all right?
	For a second.
	Oh, Lord.
	Not a job I want.
	All right, but still, I'm going to do it.
	And, yes, we had the thing with the, you know, 9-11 and all the rest of it.
	And now we've learned that it wasn't... Iraq didn't have much to do with 9-11.
	Iraq didn't have much to do with weapons of mass destruction.
	If your advisors had come to you and said, look, we face a horrendous oil crisis.
	We have, let me use this word, I'm using it, an opportunity in Iraq to go and control the second largest oil reserves in the world.
	If we go to war and if we take and occupy Iraq, Mr. President, we're going to have to say something else to the public, but, well, Mr. President, you and I both know it's about oil and We must have oil.
	That is America's future.
	Mr. President, should we invade Iraq?
	Well, you know, that's why I would never want to be President.
	Let me go into that.
	This is why I tell people who are against the war, and I'm against war because war is bad, but what happened with the war in Iraq, we're in there for multiple reasons.
	One of the reasons is that all oil transactions are priced in dollars, hence the term petrodollars.
	Anytime anybody buys oil, they've got to pay in dollars.
	It creates artificial demand for the dollar.
	It boosts up our economy.
	November 2000, Saddam switched to the euro, and then we started talking about that's when Folks start talking about maybe invading.
	Everybody on the axis of evil has either switched to Euros or threatened to switch to Euros or threatened to switch to... Saddam was about to switch to Euros for oil, is that right?
	Correct.
	Are you saying that could have something to do with the war?
	Oh, yeah, absolutely.
	Could destroy our economy.
	Well, right.
	Matt, hold that thought.
	I'm Art Bell.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
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	From coast to coast, and worldwide on the Internet, this is Coast to Coast AM, with Art Bell.
	And my guest, Matt Savinar, who says that we're not going back to the horse and buggy.
	Oh, no, no, no, no.
	We're going back to the Stone Age.
	And it's all because we're running out of oil.
	And we are running out of oil.
	We're at peak or past peak oil now, and prices are going up, and while you may see little valleys, you're gonna see mountains of prices ahead.
	So, that's the sad and apparently, according to Matt, absolutely unavoidable future that we face.
	On a lighter note, my beautiful wife, Ramona, and a very off-put Maine Coon Cat named Yeti are sending their regards to the people of Puyallup, or is it Poo-all-up?
	Washington, who have cancelled Halloween.
	So in dedication of that, we have placed a picture on my webcam that may You may be interested in, go to coasttocoastam.com, upper
	left hand side you'll see our web cam, click on that and you'll see the visuals.
	Sound of a jet taking off.
	Music.
	Once again it's Mr. President, Matt Savinar.
	All right.
	Matt, Sean from Columbus, Ohio fast blasted me the following, Hey Art, if we had invaded for oil, then how come the prices of the pump aren't lower by now?
	Well, because the invasion's gone, well, a couple of reasons.
	A, it's not just, it's not as simple as we just invaded for oil.
	One of the main reasons we invaded was to protect the sanctity of the petrodollar, which is Essentially, now the backbone of our economy, because we don't manufacture anywhere near as much stuff as we used to.
	Okay, but that's still oil-related.
	Right.
	I think that the goal, one of the goals, was to invade.
	We would have opened up the oil wells.
	That would have flooded the market.
	It would have brought the price down.
	It would have ensured a re-election for the Bush administration.
	Absolutely.
	The invasion, though, has gone so badly and it's been so botched that That Iraq oil, Iraq's only producing now about, I think, about 50 percent.
	The number changes every day because there's pipeline attacks almost daily.
	They're probably only producing about 50 percent, but don't quote me on that because I haven't checked.
	You mean 50 percent of pre-war production?
	I think it's 50, you know, I can't say right off the top of my head.
	I'd have to go look it up.
	But what they're pumping out right now is far less than what they're capable of pumping out.
	It's far less than what The Bush administration had hoped that they would be pumping out.
	Well, we said we were preserving the oil for the future of the people of Iraq.
	Oh, I mean, I can't believe anybody actually believed that.
	No, but they said it, though.
	Well, yeah, they said that because the average American is so energy illiterate that if the president had been honest with us, people would have said, oh, no, no, no, no, we can invent our way out of this, or we can find alternatives, or we can do this or that.
	And people, because we don't have an understanding of how important oil is, people think that there's some way to keep life going in some semblance of what we're used to without having access to cheap energy.
	Well, how about this?
	Alright, we have the Iraq War.
	I was going to say, we have the Iraq War.
	As energy begins to get to be really expensive, Matt, There will be more wars about oil, and some future president is going to have to say, we're doing this for oil.
	Well, Bush did say that in May 2001.
	It's on the White House website.
	There was a press release.
	he said what americans have to have a good almost an exact quote and i'm not
	pissing bush on everybody to know he's right we have to have
	the oil where the same he said it would americans have to understand if they were
	running out of energy in america and we can do a better job of conserving
	but we can darn well he's there you know
	the damn well to do a better job of getting more supply
	and that's essentially what i want to try to do there is a report released by the chain commission that was
	released in april two thousand one in one year college in the first hour i
	think he was essentially private ever break the family is quoting from
	it said americans were a prisoner of our own energy dilemma
	americans are completely unwilling to do without cheap energy
	and that we all it would be or do we require military intervention
	to secure oil supply now our leaders are telling us that we're engaged in a war
	the war on terror which many people believe is really a cover for war on oil
	because all the places that we find terrorists are the terrorist in the occupy also
	seemed occupy a little Now isn't that a curious coincidence?
	Yeah, well they say the war on oil, the war on, quote unquote, war on terror, will last the rest of our lives.
	And I think people, do you think they're joking around?
	They're not.
	The reason the war on terror will last 40 years is because if you look at any of the oil production curves, even the optimistic ones, 40 to 50 years from now, the only places that are going to have oil are in Canada with their oil sands.
	And there'll be some down in Venezuela.
	So then at that point, the war on terror will come to an end.
	Because it'll only be Canada that's got it.
	In Venezuela?
	Yes, some in Venezuela.
	So we'll probably invade Venezuela, trying to free the Venezuelan people or something.
	Yeah, well, you know, you already hear, you know, obviously, you know, we were trying to mess around with the election down there, and a lot of it is because, one of the reasons Chavez has now, I believe he, I don't know if he is, or if he's simply threatened to accept Euros for oil, he lets, what he does with Cuba, He will trade services.
	Cuba provides Venezuela with doctors because they've got a relatively advanced medical system and Venezuela gives Cuba oil.
	That's a big no-no as far as the U.S.
	is concerned.
	So an awful lot of international everything, wars, diplomacy, all of it is going to be aimed at keeping a plentiful oil supply for as long as possible and according to you that's not going to be very long.
	No.
	We've got You know, we've got a total of about 40 years in the ground at current levels of demand.
	Now, if you project for demand increases at 25, and again, that's not really an accurate picture, because the issue is not when we run out, the issue is when production begins to decline, and it could begin declining any month now.
	Alright, you hear it echoed at the pumps and in the places where we buy gasoline, people curse the greedy oil companies.
	That's fine, but what about their greed?
	Wouldn't the very greed of the oil companies, once they see the handwriting on the wall, and it ought to be all over the wall by now, dictate to them that to stay making a profit, they're going to have to do something?
	Right, that's why they've been downsizing, emerging, and cutting exploration staff like there's no tomorrow for the past five or six years.
	So, if you look at their actions, They're the actions of an industry that is planning a profitable decline.
	Much like a human being, when you get into your older years, you begin downsizing your lifestyle because you're not going to be able to produce as much income as you used to.
	You're not going to be as active, so you start downsizing.
	In the book that I wrote, I've got a list of all the mergers and a list of just the major companies, not even the smaller ones.
	And dating back from 98 to 2003, early 2004, it practically takes up an entire page.
	So, alright, the key phrase was, they're planning and beginning to act for a profitable decline, with mergers, laying people off, and all the rest of it.
	Right.
	They see it as it's going to happen, but what about, they must have some Twinkle in their eye of a possible future.
	For example, tell me the truth about hydrogen.
	You know, nationally, the president has mentioned hydrogen.
	The governor of California recently just went hydrogen berserko.
	I would like to know how much... Is hydrogen going to save our butts?
	No, it's going to save the butts of the automakers, because if you look at Bush's hydrogen proposal, who are the companies that are benefiting?
	All the automakers.
	All these plans, the ethanol plan, who's it benefit?
	It benefits not the small American farmer, it benefits big agribusiness.
	Hydrogen is not an energy source, it's an energy carrier.
	You have to get the hydrogen from some other source.
	Now people will say, well wait, you can get it from, you can use solar panels or windmills to get the hydrogen from water, and that's true, but it's a net loss.
	It takes more energy, it takes 1.3 units of energy to get one unit of energy.
	Something that people have to understand This is where we get into America's energy illiteracy.
	This is a key term.
	Please, everybody remember this.
	Energy return on energy invested.
	In order to get energy, you have to invest energy.
	Oil used to have an EROEI of 30.
	You invest one barrel of oil, you get back 30.
	Now, depending on the source, it's down to 5 or 10 to 1.
	You put in one barrel, you get out 5 or 10.
	The problem with all these alternatives, a lot of them don't even break even.
	They're wasteful.
	Consumes more energy than it produces.
	In other words, 1.3 to make 1.
	Right.
	It's a loss.
	Not to account for all the... Then why are they touting it the way they are?
	It's a big charade.
	It's a big charade.
	It's been going on for 30 years.
	Because what happens is when we start to panic, they need to trot something out to calm us down.
	In 1974, Nixon trotted out the Project Independence.
	One of the main aspects of it was that we were going to have hydrogen-fueled cars by 1990.
	And I've got all these quotes from all the congressmen saying, oh wow, we're going to run our cars on water by 1990.
	It was a charade back then, and it's a charade today because the laws of thermodynamics haven't changed.
	Now Arnold, down at my alma mater, UC Davis, he filled up a hydrogen-powered car.
	And people will look at them and say, see, it's an alternative.
	And again, it's technically viable.
	Yes, can you run a single car on hydrogen?
	Yes, of course.
	And if we had, you know, 50 or 60 years of tons of money and energy and prosperity and stability, maybe it would be, you know, a little more of a reality.
	But these things are sort of like the, I compare these to like the French Resistance of the Holocaust, in that if you're waiting for them to come save you, you're going to be waiting a long time.
	Did they exist?
	Yes.
	And should people support them?
	And are they good things?
	And are they worthy of investment and time and energy?
	Yes.
	But for the average person who's hearing my voice today, You're going to have to save yourself.
	All right, so the American people should understand that hydrogen is not a savior, that it takes roughly 1.3 to make one, and more energy to make the unit that you can use in your car.
	So it's no answer.
	It's no answer to the energy crisis.
	And also, there's all sorts of other problems.
	Hydrogen, it's the smallest element, so it'll leak out of any container.
	Okay.
	Hydrogen fuel cells require, right now, 20 grams of platinum per hydrogen fuel cell.
	Now, if we mass-produce them, we might be able to get it down to 10 grams.
	The thing is, there's only 7 billion grams of platinum in the earth.
	We already need that platinum for technological purposes, because platinum is necessary for things like computers and cell phones and all of our technology.
	We've got 700 million internal combustion engines on the road.
	So, in order to replace all of those with, say, hydrogen fuel cells, we would need to mine every gram of platinum in the earth.
	And even then, it would only be a one-year solution, because the hydrogen fuel cells only last about one year, if you're driving about an average amount.
	And we'd just end up hitting peak platinum at some point.
	See, this is the problem.
	We have an economy that requires more and more and more of everything.
	We'd be fighting platinum wars down in South Africa.
	South Africa's got 80% of the world's proven platinum.
	Platinum wars, great.
	And then there's China.
	I think a lot about China because I got to visit China, and Matt, I was so shocked.
	I went up into the Shenzhen province, you know, the free zone, and then further up into Communist China, and oh my God, Matt, there were 18 wheelers nose to nose going up into China and back, and the amount of commerce and stuff going on there is Scary.
	It scared me.
	I said, my God, what an engine this place is.
	Industrial engine.
	And China is going to have to have cheap oil just the way we are.
	And there's a billion or so Chinese.
	So eventually, won't there come a time when China and the United States, along with everybody else, is competing for this oil?
	And I don't know where competition ends and war begins, but it's not a big area there.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	Absolutely.
	They're our chief energy rival now.
	And China and Russia are trying to work out an oil pipeline.
	We dispatched seven carrier fleets this summer down to the South China Sea.
	If you look, China's trying to buy up a lot of the resources up in Canada.
	And there's this little spot going on about the Spratlys.
	Exactly.
	Yeah, exactly.
	So, I mean, one thing we don't want to do is get into a war with China, but I mean, isn't that almost inevitable over the remaining oil reserves?
	Many of the current administration are members of a group called Project for a New American Century, and in their manifesto called Rebuilding America's Defenses, they did suggest that we, you know, look into the democratization of China.
	So, you know, when we're democratizing Iraq, A war with China would just be unbelievable.
	I don't even want to grasp it or think about it, but that's sort of where we're heading.
	At least to some type of proxy war.
	It becomes a matter of national survival, nothing less, right?
	Yeah, no, it absolutely does.
	There's George Monbiot, who's an author who writes a lot about this, who said that in the age of entropy, virtue may not be a possibility.
	It may not.
	People don't want to deal with this, but this is what happens when, for the last 150 years, we never figured out what we were going to do, and the stuff began to run out, and now we're faced with these really macabre decisions about, you know, are we going to go to war with China?
	I mean, it scares me to even mention it, to even think about it.
	Under such horrid conditions, as it were, with China, or any other major world event, we would have to have a resumption of our draft, certainly, something they're denying like crazy right now, to put enough men out into, well, all these hot oil spots around the world to take them, right?
	Absolutely.
	Oh yeah.
	You know, I know, of course, they just voted 402 to 2 against the draft, but... For now.
	Yeah, just for now.
	I mean, they also, Bush also promised not to inhibit or prevent senior citizens from getting medicines from Canada.
	Promised not to, you know, screw around with Social Security.
	So there's a lot of promises that have been made that have been broken.
	And let me remind you, World War I, or who was it, even Franklin Roosevelt said he was going to keep us out of war.
	And, you know... I'm recalling that most Modern presidents have said, should it become necessary, we would go to a nuclear conflict to protect the Gulf, to keep the Gulf open so we could continue to get oil.
	I mean, we would go to nuclear war to keep the straits open.
	Yeah.
	And I believe it.
	I do too.
	We don't have 20,000 nukes floating around for no reason.
	I mean, people seem to think that this is an issue that somehow is no longer an issue.
	We've got 20,000 nukes on hand, many of them in the hands of unstable individuals, and you have this global situation where a key resource is now becoming scarce, and it's a resource that is necessary for life itself.
	Matt, is there any way you could be wrong?
	I sure hope so.
	I really hope so.
	I don't think so, but you know, that's why I tell the folks who are waiting for the rapture, hey, I hope it comes.
	That would be great.
	But I mean, as realistically as you have looked at all of this, you're saying that the rough part of all of this is really about to begin, and it may be months, it may be a year, Or so?
	Yeah, I don't like to give exact dates because if I give an exact date and that date comes and something hasn't quite happened the way you said it would and people go, you don't know what you're talking about.
	Well, besides, you're not a prophet, but you are looking at reality.
	Yes, and when you look at the current situation, it comes down to very simple.
	We need a certain resource that is becoming scarcer and scarcer.
	The only way to secure that supply is through military intervention.
	We're not the only people who want it.
	There's lots of other powerful nations that want it, and they also have become somewhat emboldened by the fact that the invasion of Iraq has gone so poorly for us.
	If we had Iraq completely under control and everything was going the way we had hoped it would go, we'd be in a much better geopolitical situation, but now you get these other countries who are now emboldened by the difficulties that we've encountered.
	We're tied down in Iraq, How are we going to invade Iran and Syria and Saudi Arabia?
	There's been a plan to invade Saudi Arabia on the books for 30 years.
	You think that we had follow-up plans for Iran and Syria right away?
	Or very quickly?
	I wouldn't be surprised if we do, but I don't have any evidence that I could present to a jury to say that we had plans to invade Iran.
	There's a plan called UK Eyes Alpha, and you can just go online and Google it, and we had a plan to invade Saudi Arabia back I think it was Nixon who created that plan.
	So I don't have, off the top of my head, proof that we had planned to invade Iran after Saudi Arabia, but I won't... Well, alright, so whoever gets elected, Kerry-Bush, it doesn't matter, both of them have some incredible decisions that they're going to have to make on behalf of the U.S., right?
	Oh yeah, I do not envy whoever is the... I personally can't imagine why anybody would want to be president at this point, because They're just going to be facing the end.
	The storm.
	The slide into the Stone Age.
	Yeah.
	The beginning of the storm.
	All right, Matt, hold on.
	Well, I'm trying to pick out any optimistic parts of what Matt Seminar has said so far, and there really aren't many.
	And perhaps if you're listening closely, you caught one or two that I missed.
	But I've asked about most of all.
	You know what I didn't ask about?
	The black boxes that everybody's talking about.
	You know, more out than in.
	We'll touch on that before we get to open lines.
	I'm going to be a very old friend, came by today, cause he was telling everyone in town, of the love that he'd just
	Cause he was telling everyone in town All the love that he just found
	found, and the reasoning, of his latest friend.
	And the reasoning of his latest flame He talked and talked
	He kept talking, talking, and I heard him say, that she had the longest, whitest hair, the prettiest green eyes
	And I heard him say That she had the longest, whitest hair
	The prettiest green eyes anywhere And the reasoning of his latest flame
	Oh, I smile at tears inside of her burning I wish she'd love again but he said goodbye
	He was gone but still his words kept ringing back What else was there for me to do but cry?
	Do talk with Art Bell. Call the wild card line at...
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	It is indeed, and these are very bleak facts you're hearing this morning from Matt Savinar.
	Very bleak indeed, but I think I feel an absolute responsibility that you, as my audience, hear them.
	It's in our immediate future.
	We'll talk more about it, and by the way, we'll take calls from Matt shortly.
	I've got just a couple of other questions, but I think the bigger picture has unfolded in a kind of sad, worrisome, scary way.
	If you can poke any holes in it, and you have an optimistic stick that you can plunge into Matt's arguments then plunge away.
	we'll look for that and open the line shortly.
	Alright, uh...
	Matt, for years, doing the kind of program that I do here, we attract a lot of people who are interested in alternative energy sources, free energy sources.
	Gosh, everything from Tesla's work to all of these claimed, you know, they have now conventions, Matt, where everybody brings their own little black box of something that Yields more output than it takes as input.
	It's a miracle!
	Right.
	Well, I'm actually a subscriber to Infinite Energy Magazine, and prior to his death, I had spoken extensively with Dr. Malav, who you've had on your show, who I think George has had on his show.
	No, I've had Dr. Malav on.
	And here's the thing.
	What people have to understand is that oil essentially has been free energy.
	The amount of energy contained in a gallon of gasoline It would take 600 hours of human labor to produce that amount of energy.
	Now, even if you work a minimum wage job at $5.15 an hour, you can acquire $2 in about, less than about what, two minutes?
	Less than two minutes.
	And so you can, with your 20 minutes of labor, excuse me, not two minutes, 20 minutes to get your $2, 20 minutes of labor, you can go out and afford 600 hours of human labor.
	Okay?
	Because a gallon of gas costs about $2.
	Sure.
	Now people say, well, how can that possibly be?
	I don't see how a gallon of gas can contain so much energy.
	Well, if you think about it, how long would it take you to push a car 25 miles?
	Longer than that.
	Exactly.
	So that's how, but you can put a gallon of gas for $2 in your car.
	Not counting the medical bills after I close.
	Exactly.
	And drive it for, on average, 25 miles.
	So the thing is, we've gained access to this abundant source of energy And 150 years later, we're closer to extinction than ever.
	We're a lot like a teeth.
	You gave a teenage boy, an 18-year-old guy, a million dollars,
	and then he'd probably blow himself up with it.
	He'd do all sorts of bad things.
	Now, if when he began to deplete that amount of money, the solution is not for him to go and get a bigger bank
	account.
	The solution is for them to learn to live without so much energy.
	We're like a crack addict who the crack supply is about to peak and they think, well, gee, wait a minute, I heard there's this new stuff called heroin that's on the way.
	It's cleaner, it's going to be cheaper, it's going to be more potent than crack.
	Well, the problem is, it's not a matter of, you know, the problem is you're an addict, you're addicted to something.
	The problem is not, the solution is not to find a more potent, powerful thing to replace your current addiction the
	this with you having done the work you did on the drug war controversy will
	then it's easy for you to make up drug analogies huh well yeah I
	mean I I think people always refer to it as fossil fuel addicts
	and that's true but it's more accurate to say we're energy glutton
	yes and a more potent source of energy look if you don't think we're going to
	use that as a weapon your your you know somebody you know I mean look I I respect the
	folks who are working on these things and I'm
	you know with some all the luck in the world but it will be zero point energy for instance was a reality
	I mean I don't just mean a reality in the laboratory or in a little box at a
	convention by me know real you know reality that they that that you know the
	government could take and turn into a weapon yes
	Look, you don't want an accident.
	You get an accident with a nuclear device, it's a big mess.
	You get an accident with zero-point energy, or ether, or cold fusion, or whatever, you get one less planet circling the Earth.
	And if we had nuclear weapons, we would have nuclear energy.
	Well, since you're a subscriber, Matt, have you seen anything that you regard as, you know, maybe even Possibly legit, in terms of the magic bullet?
	Well, there's a difference between, is it scientifically possible in the laboratory, and are there some reactions where you've gotten excess heat?
	Yes.
	And in that case, I would have to defer to the folks like Dr. Moloff, or folks of his... Well, you can't defer to him.
	I know, I know.
	But folks of his background, his educational background, to explain to you, well yes, we have Let me accept your sad cataclysmic scenario as it is and simply jump to this question.
	the ramifications of peak oil. I don't think there's anything.
	No way. No. Because we need, A, we would use it and we'd end up destroying ourselves. We'd use it to
	completely lay the planet bare.
	You'd have no timber, you'd have no silver, no copper, no platinum, no
	nothing. Let me accept your sad cataclysmic scenario
	as it is and simply jump to this question. The individuals listening to us this morning, ones who live in
	homes and apartments and condos and God, you know, just all kinds of living conditions out
	there.
	you later.
	Assuming that you're right and the worst is coming, Matt, what advice can you give to individuals to prepare?
	Ideally, what I want to do is get involved in a sustainable living community.
	I recognize that's not a possibility for everybody and it's not very easy to do, but You know, I don't think state living in the cities is going to be a very good thing for your health.
	What you could do to at least soften the blow in the initial years is, you know, start, if possible, learning to grow your own food.
	If you've got access to some sort of organic garden or whatnot.
	And, you know, trying to become as independent from, you know, everything.
	In other words, According to the scenario that you've drawn out for us tonight, Matt, everybody's going to be on their own.
	It's going to be a Mad Max kind of world, unless I've mixed up the words you're saying.
	I mean, it really does sound like that.
	Yeah, that's pretty much it.
	People are looking to me for some type of solution.
	I don't really have one.
	And I'll try to get it as sustainable as you can, and that's extremely difficult because each of us, both as a nation and as individuals, we're completely dependent on fossil fuel energy.
	Well, then you might as well drill a well, get your own electricity going now with wind or solar, buy lots of guns, and get ready to defend what you've got.
	Now, is that overdoing it?
	No, unfortunately, probably not.
	I don't like to think about it myself.
	I try not to dwell on it too much.
	But it's the whole point of what you're saying, though.
	I know.
	It's pretty disturbing stuff.
	Well, that's the brutal aspect of it.
	I mean, if it's going to get down to every man and woman for themselves, and we're headed back towards some kind of earlier age, then these will be the coin of the realm.
	Energy will be the coin of the realm.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	Absolutely.
	OK.
	I want to begin to allow the audience to ask some questions.
	So here we go.
	First time caller on the air with Matt Sevener.
	Hi.
	Hi there.
	This is Jason from Tulsa.
	Yes, Jason.
	I have a question for you.
	I have a couple, if you wouldn't mind.
	All right.
	Go ahead.
	The first one is, have you heard of the magnetic motors?
	And I saw on the Internet they're building one in Europe.
	It's got three rotors on it, and it's got a scalar assembly.
	And as it comes in contact with the stator, it does produce electricity.
	And I was wondering if you had heard anything about that.
	Well, that's what motors do as they turn.
	They produce electricity.
	Right, well, it's hooked up to a generator is what I'm trying to say.
	Yes.
	I'm familiar, I know that there's a gentleman in Japan who supposedly has created such a device.
	I don't know specifically about the device that you're talking about.
	Well, the point that I have to get to people's minds is that these things are all wonderful in and of themselves, okay?
	And whoever's making this, I wish them all the luck in the world.
	If I had money, I'd give them money to try and, you know, support it and scale it up.
	But we're talking about the retrofitting of a $40 trillion international infrastructure.
	In other words, sir, even if this guy's motor is the real McCoy, you know, and we've got to have some doubt about that, right?
	But even if it is, he's saying it's not going to stop what he's just outlined is coming.
	Right, because remember, in order to keep the financial system going, we need a constantly increasing supply of energy.
	And our economy now is so big that, you know, we use 30 billion barrels of oil a year, plus about the energy equivalent of two-thirds of that in natural gas and coal.
	These are, you know, natural gas has also set the peak.
	And so it's a matter of, is this thing technologically viable?
	Even if it is, It's not going to prevent the average person from suffering through this collapse.
	And so I tell people, I say, look, these devices are great.
	I'm fascinated by them as anybody, because I'm one of those people who's always been really into technology.
	This could all be boiled down to, even if it's real, sir, it's too late.
	Next question.
	OK.
	The next question is dealing also with the cataclysmic event that will happen with the oil.
	So it does relate to the oil.
	You gave a phenomenal amount of oil that is being pumped out of the ground every day.
	I can't remember what the number was, but it's a lot of barrels of oil.
	And I was wondering, what is replacing what they're taking out of the ground also with that?
	If it is groundwater that is seeping in there or if they're pumping groundwater in, could this also be... You're sneaking up on three questions here.
	So listen to your answer.
	It is a good question.
	I've always wondered about that too, Matt.
	All the oil that they're pumping out of the ground, he asked, what replaces that?
	And are there consequences to pumping it all out of the ground?
	In terms of what physically replaces it, I don't know if anything does.
	They do now pump salt water underneath a lot of the oil fields to push the oil up to the top of the, it's called the water injection.
	So they might be replacing it with salt water?
	Yeah, I don't know though if the salt water, you'd have to talk to somebody who is I'm more familiar with that process.
	I don't know if it sits there or what they do if they cycle it out, but they pump it in there, pushes the oil up to the top, makes it easier to extract.
	I think what he's getting at is a question I get a lot about is pulling all this oil out of the earth, somehow destabilizing the earth, and creating more possibly earthquakes.
	I haven't seen any what I would consider reputable reports one way or the other, but I will say if you have an inheritance that took billions of years to accumulate and you go and spend it all in a couple years, That can't possibly be good, because you're releasing a tremendous amount of stuff into the atmosphere, which of course is going to increase global warming.
	There's a strong correlation between how much fossil fuels we use and the effects of global warming, which is now getting to the point where you almost can't even deny it.
	I should say global climate change is a more accurate term.
	I wouldn't be surprised if there's some type of connection between pulling that out and creating some type of de-civilization, but I can't say for sure one way or the other.
	All right.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Matt Seminar.
	Hi.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	I wanted to ask him, what do you think of biofuel as a substitute?
	All right.
	You know, we're treading on territory that we've already treaded upon.
	I asked about all of these things.
	Yeah, and I think your answer is the same for all of them, isn't it?
	Yeah, for instance, biodiesel.
	And I tell people, you know, biodiesel may be one of the best alternatives we have, because you can take a diesel-powered vehicle and run it on adapted-to-run on biodiesel relatively easily.
	Right.
	The problem is, again, we use 82.5 million barrels of oil per day.
	Even if, like, there's some folks who believe, and I don't necessarily agree with them, but I'll just give them the benefit of the doubt, they believe that we can repay in the U.S.
	That with enough investment, we can replace all transportation fuels with biodiesel.
	And I say, OK, great.
	In the US, we use 20 million barrels a day of oil.
	About 60% of that is used for transportation.
	So even if we were able to do that, and even if we were able to do it overnight, it would reduce global oil consumption by, it would reduce it from 82.5 barrels per day, a million barrels per day, down to 70 million barrels per day, which is the amount we used in 1990.
	So even if these incredibly, and again, we need a 2-4% increase per year to feed industrialization, economic growth, and to keep servicing debt.
	So even if the most wildly optimistic estimates are correct, and I have a lot of doubts about that, and even if we could do it overnight, it's still too little too late.
	You see, we passed the point of no return 30-40 years ago.
	That long ago?
	Yeah.
	People think that that was somehow the first warning and now this is our second chance.
	That was our warning.
	shot with those politically created oil shocks.
	And we woke up and if we had started massive retrofitting of our economy. We almost did.
	Right, if we had started and sustained it into this day, it would have been incredibly
	challenging, phenomenally challenging.
	We may not have succeeded, but it would have been a possibility. But now
	this civilization as a whole is pretty much, there is no hope for it.
	You've got to worry about yourself and getting your organic garden going and doing whatever else you can.
	I've got that.
	Matt, in a way, the administrations that have been in office since this would have been known in the quiet little circles, and it would have been known, they would have still every interest in keeping oil cheap for each four-year cycle or each eight-year cycle if they got lucky and got re-elected.
	They would want to keep oil cheap.
	They wouldn't want to let it rise so that we could meet the emergency as it came along.
	Instead, it's going to be one giant shock, sort of, isn't it?
	Yeah, yeah.
	And like I was saying, I think in the first half hour, if we wait, you know, once we wait until the market gives us a signal, Then it's too late, because oil will have gotten so high, we won't have the energetic and financial capital to invest in these alternatives.
	And even if we did, the alternatives are so modest compared to oil that we really can't.
	Well, here's something people can do, and I bet you do it, Matt.
	Watch the stock market.
	And as the price of a barrel of oil goes up, the market reacts with three-digit moves downward.
	Yeah.
	And it's very simple why.
	Energy, you need for economic growth.
	You need energy.
	Just like as a human being, when you're growing as a baby, maybe you need excess food to grow.
	Food is energy.
	So the economy operates in a similar fashion.
	So when our primary source of energy becomes more expensive, we're less able to grow.
	Got it.
	All right.
	Ease to the Rockies.
	You're on the air with Matt Seminar.
	Hi.
	Hi, Art.
	My question is, how does synthetic oil play into the bigger picture with all this?
	Not that well.
	That's a very good question.
	Synthetic oil, Matt.
	Here's the problem we run into.
	Everybody's got their favorite alternative.
	You have to look at the bigger picture.
	Okay, but just give me this one.
	That's a good one.
	What about synthetic oil?
	We're going to be losing 1.5 billion barrels per year due to depletion.
	How much of that can we get from synthetic oil?
	I don't know.
	You see, this is the problem.
	Our demand is so massive that even in the best case scenario, and I don't know how much we would be able to get from synthetic oil, it's still not going to prevent a declining supply of energy, which is then, when you get a declining supply of energy, you get a collapse of the financial system.
	So, I mean, it's like, I'm a fan of these alternatives, and like I was saying in the first segment, In the best case, even if we could get, say, 5 billion barrels a year from these alternatives, whether it's synthetic oil, biodiesel, solar, wind, the energy equivalent of 5 billion barrels, that's as much oil as we used per year during World War II.
	So it's a tremendous amount of energy.
	We need 30 billion barrels a year, and we're already losing.
	It was just a report that came out from Petroleum Review Magazine a couple weeks back.
	It said we're already losing a million barrels per day due to depletion.
	And the decline hasn't even really gotten underway yet.
	And once it does, we're going to be losing conservatively 3% of our supply per year.
	So that's almost a billion barrels right off the bat, conservatively.
	And you know, so, sorry, but even in the best case scenario, we're, you know, we've waited,
	you know, you can imagine a scenario, Art, back in the oil shocks of the 70s, if I had
	said to you, imagine a scenario where we just simply waited.
	Until it was way too late.
	Well, that scenario has come true.
	It's already too late.
	Yeah.
	For the civilization as a whole, it's too late.
	Now, for you as an individual or individual families or whatnot, you can try and get yourself as self-sufficient and sustainable as possible.
	But look, civilizations rise and civilizations fall.
	Every great civilization has.
	And our fall is going to be oil.
	Yeah.
	There's other issues that are surrounding that, but if you look at the course of a human cell, everything needs to die at some point, or it will destroy the whole system.
	A healthy human cell, if it keeps growing, it turns into cancer.
	If it doesn't die when it's supposed to.
	Well, the same is true of civilizations.
	Our modern industrial civilization is You know, very much like that.
	If we keep going the way we are, we're going to totally blow ourselves up.
	So, Pete Coyle, when people ask me for something optimistic about Pete Coyle... What do you say?
	I tell them, well, this may be the only thing that saves humanity.
	Because if we keep going, we're going to blow ourselves up.
	All right.
	Hold it right there, Matt.
	We'll come back and do another hour of calls.
	Matt Savinar is my guest.
	Mr. Optimist, indeed.
	I'm Art Bell.
	If you can shoot any holes in what Matt's saying, Come and fire away, folks, because otherwise, it seems as though what he's saying is inevitable.
	A Mad Max world ahead, indeed.
	From the high desert, this is Coast to Coast AM.
	Coast to Coast AM.
	Coast to Coast AM.
	They seem so hard to find.
	I tried to reach for you, but you have lost your mind.
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	I'll tell ya, when it's gone, how can we go on?
	Well, we can't.
	We're talking about oil.
	zero nine zero three from coast to coast
	and worldwide on the internet this is coast to coast a m
	with art bell sls is right
	when it's gone well we can't we're talking about oil
	that's seminars my guess that he's laid out of very very
	and rather immediate future regarding
	coil and where we are on that curve right now and where we're headed.
	He says, not back to the horse and buggy days, back to the Stone Age.
	There's going to be a large magnitude collapse.
	I mean, it's a devastatingly bleak analysis, but it's probably true.
	If you have questions, comments, or you can poke a stick in any of this, We're listening.
	All right, Matt.
	We've dealt with what individuals can do to prepare.
	Kind of small things, really.
	But they can prepare.
	What about the larger pictures?
	At this point, and I know you're not president, but at this point, if you were, knowing what you know right now, as you have explained to us so graphically this morning, Matt, as president, what would you order right now, knowing what you know?
	Well, see, I don't know.
	This is why I... Because the things that we need to do to deal with this would cause a collapse in and of themselves.
	So, for instance, We need to drive less.
	That's pretty obvious, I think.
	The problem is 25% of all of our jobs are related to the construction of automobiles.
	And you have even more jobs that are indirectly dependent on automobiles.
	So we can't really do what we need to do without crashing the economy.
	So there would be no decision you could make that would be That would affect anything, really?
	I mean, not the coming calamity?
	I mean, you could ask people to conserve, and that might buy us a couple years at best, but the problem with conservation is, as long as, if let's say we were to issue, you know, engage in a massive conservation effort, and that somehow managed not to crash the economy, because to really conserve we need to cut our consumption by, you know, 50, 60, 70 percent, you'd have auto companies going out of business, airlines going out of business, which is already happening, Well, let's say we could somehow conserve energy enough to bring the price of oil back down to, say, $40 a barrel.
	Well, if oil isn't at a really high price, then we're not motivated to invest in the very modest alternatives that we have.
	So it's a catch-22.
	And every time we've increased our energy efficiency, we've simply begun to consume more.
	It's called Jevon's Paradox.
	It was first noticed back in the 1800s.
	And so, if the fuel efficiency of cars increases, I'm just using cars as one example, people simply either drive more, or they use the money that they save on gas to purchase consumer items, which are made with petroleum and transported on vehicles powered by oil.
	So, I don't really see a way out of it on a civilization-wide level.
	I think the best you can do is, as an individual or a family or a small community, You know, begin trying to get as self-sufficient as possible.
	And before I forget, the first U.S.
	teak oil conference is happening November 12th to the 14th in Ohio.
	Oh, that should be some conference.
	Yeah, you go to Community Solution... I can never remember if it's Community Solution or Community Solutions.org.
	Do you have a link on your site?
	It's on the very front page of my site.
	Alright, well let's just... Alright, look, let's send people to your site.
	People who are interested in what you're saying and want to either prove it or disprove it to themselves can go to www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net Right, and I've got it linked up on the right hand side of the front page so you can't miss it.
	Okay, and you lay it all out on the website?
	Yeah, I mean the first page is basically a summary of the situation.
	You know what I'm interested in, Matt?
	With having a very controversial page like that up there, coming to the conclusions, obviously, on the page that you come to here on the air for us, it's a pretty bleak, disturbing, scary, immediate future.
	What kind of feedback do you get?
	I mean, you must get a lot of email.
	What's it like?
	I get, it really ranges from people who say, oh my God, thank you so much for doing this.
	Somebody finally had to To lay it out in this way, in this fashion, because I'm far from the only person who's talking about this, and there have been people talking about this long before I ever came on the scene.
	I get emails from people who say, you're nuts, you're crazy, although those emails are a lot less frequent than they were back in January when I first put the site up.
	So it pretty much ranges.
	Overall, I'd say it's generally been actually pretty positive.
	Are you going to write a book?
	Well, I did write a book.
	It's up there on the site, all the info.
	Oh!
	I had not intended to do that until what happened.
	I came on this show back in February.
	I had put the site up in January because my goal was just to find five or ten other people who are as terrified as I was about the situation and then I told a couple people online and next thing I knew I was getting 10,000 visits a day and so the book, what I did is I took all the information because I've been researching it for months on my own.
	I took all the information I gathered and I wrote a book in a question-and-answer format, which is basically what an attorney does at trial.
	You have questions, and you have to use that to create an argument to the jury.
	How do you make money?
	You can't make a lot of money predicting the oil crash.
	Are you still a practicing attorney, or what do you do?
	I had been temping for a while when I first put up the site, and I've been able to make a very, very low budget lifestyle austere lifestyle yeah
	no furniture uh... no furniture yet to be a the bed in the uh... no car
	no car well i don't know how to work very much so i've been able
	to scrape together just enough from
	having camped in from from you know book sales so you're trying to live before
	the oil crash like you know you're gonna have to live after the oil crashes are
	right Essentially.
	I mean, I did turn on the heater the other day, which may not be an option, but... Alright, alright.
	Here we go to the phone again.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Matt Sevener.
	Hi.
	Hi, Art.
	Hello.
	This is Greg in Chatham, New Jersey.
	Yes, Greg.
	I want to bring some attention to the false premise of your guest.
	In the Sunday New York Times, dated September 5th, of 2004.
	This sentence, and I will quote it, from 1973 to 2003, after all, the amount of oil and gas needed to create a dollar of gross domestic product fell by half.
	We are much less addicted to the black stuff than yesterday's industrial economy.
	Your guest is just spewing out false notions from Iraq being a mess, which it is not... All right, hold it.
	Hold on a second.
	Let's kind of take them one at a time.
	The quote you just gave, you said we're using 50%... Requote it.
	Say it again, because I want Matt to challenge this.
	Okay, from 1973 to 2003, the amount of oil and gas needed to create a dollar of gross domestic product Well, by half.
	By half.
	All right.
	Matt?
	No, that's true.
	That's true.
	But are we still entirely dependent on oil?
	We have 40% of our energy comes from oil, 25% from natural gas, 25% from coal, and then the other 10% is made up of, you know, everything from nuclear to water to a very small amount from the solar and wind and things like that.
	But that's the thing.
	We've reduced about 50%.
	We're still entirely dependent on oil.
	And once the production of energy begins to decline, it's a very simple concept, if you
	don't have an excess amount of energy entering the economy, things begin to collapse.
	Now we may be able to still squeeze more GDP out of the same amount of oil, but there's
	a point of diminishing returns.
	So it's not going to change the end.
	The essential truth of is there going to be a collapse or not, yeah, there still is, even if we could still squeeze out a little bit more GDP from the same amount of oil.
	All right, caller?
	Art, for your guest... Hello?
	Yeah?
	Oh, for your guest to imply, though, that That in six months he's going to be living in some socialist utopia is just absolutely absurd.
	I'd also like to mention, your guest never brought up the fact that the major demand on oil prices right now is increased capitalism in China and India, combined with some distribution and Uh, production problems in the oil fields in Venezuela.
	Yeah, but all of that, with the exception of Venezuela, it's only going to get worse, sir, and you know it.
	I mean, China's going to be demanding more and more and more oil, as other third world nations will, but particularly China.
	That's a fact.
	Would your guest, therefore, with all his knowledge, be opposed We have not built a nuclear reactor to produce electricity and energy in this country since the early seventies.
	Let's ask the left-wing liberals.
	Wouldn't he be in favor of nuclear energy in America?
	I'm not patently against nuclear energy.
	I think it needs to be an option that's on the table.
	Obviously, there's a few problems with it, but as far as the left-wing liberal stuff, what you can do, if you go on to Google Matthew Simmons, He's the CEO of one of the most of Simmons & Company International.
	If you go onto their website, and if you just Google his name, the site will come up.
	And I encourage you to read, he's got dozens of papers and speeches that he's given.
	He's conservative.
	He was on the Cheney Task Force.
	And he says things that, well, really, that was one of the things that got me really into peak oil, because I thought, well, wait a minute, this isn't eco-liberal fear-mongering.
	You got somebody like this guy who is disconcerned about it, and you read some of the statements in some of his papers, and you're like, oh my goodness, this is not just, you know, a liberal socialist utopia like Tuck Caller claimed.
	You know, you've got very rational, conservative people who are, you know, very, very concerned about this.
	And so I tell that caller and everybody else who is agreeing with him, go on to that site.
	You can also go to globalpublicmedia.com and they've got dozens of hours of interviews with folks like that who are conservative, they're not liberals, and they'll tell you, you know, not maybe exactly the same thing that I'm telling you, but things that will scare the pants off of you, given what their background is.
	So you're not a leftist, communist, Misfit tree hugger.
	No, you can go on my website, you can look at my picture and you can tell that I'm not, I'm very, I'm serious.
	And that's why I tell people for somebody like me to be looking into, you know, a sustainable living and things like that.
	Yes.
	You know, that should tell you something because You know, I mean, I could be making $125,000 a year driving a Hummer if I wanted to right now.
	A Hummer?
	Yeah.
	Which I actually wanted one a few years ago until I kind of woke up and got smart.
	Really?
	Alright, hold on a sec.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Matt Sevener.
	Hello, Mark.
	Hello, Matt.
	Oh, you're going to have to yell at us.
	You're not too loud here.
	Okay, I'm going to yell at you.
	Thank you.
	Earlier you mentioned that you'd like to hear anyone who has a bright spot.
	Oh, yes.
	Matt earlier mentioned that the oil sands up in Canada and they are currently producing about a million barrels a day and they are projected to be producing up to two million before too long.
	It doesn't seem like much.
	Here in the United States we are blessed with 2.6 trillion barrels of oil that is locked up in oil shale.
	The bright spot is the technology has recently been developed that will enable us to effectively Extract that from the shale, and as a byproduct, produce huge amounts of electricity.
	I've got a question.
	At what economic level is it feasible to begin to extract the oil from the shale?
	When you say at what economic level, do you mean what price per barrel?
	Yes, sir.
	About $14.
	So, I guess that Matt, if I've been listening to the interview carefully, would say, yeah, fine.
	But to gear up the infrastructure to do that can't happen in time, even if we begin now.
	Well, it depends on what the time is.
	But I shouldn't speak for him.
	Matt, is that right?
	Well, right.
	Shale oil has been one of these things for decades now.
	There's always somebody, you know, this is one of these almost magic bullet alternatives, although this one is actually from petroleum.
	Hey, if it comes online and you're producing the amount of oil we need, great, I'll be thrilled, but I'm not waiting around for that.
	I don't argue with the inevitability of what you say.
	All I'm saying is this could definitely save an office and give us a chance to, number one, free ourselves from our dependence on foreign oil, and also give us a chance to develop the technology that would enable us to The problem is, even if this is viable, A, we're not really dependent on foreign oil.
	We actually get a relatively small portion of our total oil consumption from foreign oil.
	It's a globally traded commodity, so even if we got off, we have about 2 million barrels a day from Saudi Arabia, for instance.
	Even if we got off Saudi Arabian oil and we somehow managed to produce an extra 2 million per day from our own soil, because it's globally traded, It wouldn't make that big of a difference in the price.
	Let's say this oil comes online, it's introduced into the market, and it puts off the collapse by 5 years or 10 years or whatever.
	As long as oil prices remain semi-reasonable, and $55 is still semi-reasonable, we're not going to invest in alternatives.
	So it's still essentially the same You're on the air with Matt Seminar.
	If we get more oil, then the market isn't going to give a signal to switch to alternatives.
	Hi.
	Then these are very modest alternatives that we have.
	And again, I'd be thrilled if shale oil came online and was producing millions of barrels a day,
	because they may buy us some extra time, but the ultimate endgame is still the same.
	All right.
	East to the Rockies. You're on the air with Matt Seminar.
	Hi.
	Good morning.
	I was wondering about the price of natural gas.
	You know, it's skyrocketed in the last two years.
	Boy, has it ever.
	And our modern agriculture is totally dependent on fossil fuel energy, and our fertilizers are made all from natural gas.
	But I haven't noticed a huge spike in food prices since natural gas started going up.
	I was wondering if you had any explanation for that.
	Hello.
	That's you, Matt.
	Yeah, why it hasn't gone up more than it has, that I don't know why it hasn't gone up more.
	But, you know, it's sort of like the, like I was saying earlier, anything with our economy is sort of like the turning around the Titanic.
	You know, there's a certain amount of momentum.
	So even if the engine shut down today, the ship's going to still keep on going.
	There's somewhat of a lag.
	When you see the rise in the price of oil and natural gas, And when you see things rise at the consumer goods level.
	So you're saying it just may be a gap?
	Right.
	I mean, there's a gap even between the price of the barrel of oil and the price of the pump.
	I forget how much of a gap, but... I think it's about six weeks, I think.
	Six weeks.
	All right.
	And further down the economy, the gap would be greater as... It's just going to keep going up.
	Oh, I mean, yeah, there will always be somewhat of a gap.
	Caller?
	Yeah, a few Americans realize just how much fossil fuel we use just in producing our food.
	Yeah, 9 out of 10 calories that you eat come from hydrocarbon energy.
	Oil comes from... Pesticides are produced from petrochemicals, from oil, like the caller said.
	Natural gas is where we get ammonia from.
	That's how we produce fertilizer.
	And then the average piece of food is transported 1,400 miles.
	And that, of course, consumes oil.
	And all of our farm equipment It's essentially replaced slavery.
	It's not a coincidence that the first oil well was drilled in 1859.
	I want to talk to you a little bit about those oil wells.
	The oil wells we have here in the U.S.
	largely, I have heard, are capped.
	And they were capped some time ago.
	And then, of course, we do have ANWR and we do have some oil capability ourselves if we chose to begin to exploit it With fervor.
	Now, it's said, Matt, that we have a national policy of basically keeping our oil in the ground, what we have, while using foreign oil, so that when the crunch does come, we still have hours left.
	Do you think that's what they're doing?
	No, that's not how oil is traded.
	Oil is a globally traded commodity.
	So the price, because you're selling it, the oil companies will sell to whoever can buy it.
	They don't necessarily prefer, they don't care if you're a US consumer or a Chinese consumer or whoever, they sell to whoever can pay the highest price.
	Now we do have a lot of wells that are capped simply because at a certain point it became cheaper to get oil from other sources.
	Yes.
	But see that's the whole problem, it's not that we're running out of oil, it's that we don't have cheap oil.
	So there may be wells that are worth drilling when oil gets to $100 or $150 a barrel.
	So the ultimate problem is not resolved, and again, like I said before, even if we tripled the amount of oil that we think we have in the ground.
	So the only thing that's keeping the caps on those wells, basically, is the price of oil.
	Right.
	Now, if the price gets high enough, those wells will open up, but that doesn't solve the crisis.
	The crisis is high oil prices.
	And ANWR, even if we drilled it, there's only a six month supply, and according to the Department of Energy, and this is under an oil controlled administration, It will only come down 50%.
	Alright, hold it right there.
	I mean, excuse me, 50 cents per barrel.
	50 cents per barrel.
	Alright, hold it right there, Matt.
	Everything comes to an end, doesn't it?
	Breeze, swaying in the summer breeze, showing off their silver leaves.
	As we walked past, kisses on a summer's day, laughing all our cares away, just you and I.
	Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh Sweet, you won't love someone like this
	Crazy, I feel it in my tongue Love is all around me
	And so the feeling grows It's written on the wind
	It's everywhere I go So if you really love me
	Come on and let it show you
	You know I love you, I always will My mind is made up by the way that I feel
	There's no beginning, there'll be no end Cause all my love, it can depend
	I still...
	fell call the wildcard line at area code The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
	To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll free at 800-825-5033.
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	From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	Well, if you care about your future and the future of your children,
	but most of all, how about your own future?
	And if a crash is coming, and it's really coming that soon, well then I would think at the very least, after listening
	to Matt's seminar, You'd want to go to his website and see if you believe it's
	all real.
	It is www.lifeafterthecrash.net.
	assuming that his side hasn't crashed yet i would i'd go up there and examine this whole question
	alright once again that's about our Matt, let me ask this.
	There have been, you know, a number of pretty reasonable suggestions about the shale, for example.
	And, of course, there's conservation, and there's exploration, and, you know, if we do it all, if we realize the crisis is virtually upon us, and we begin doing it all, how long can we Hold it off, do you think?
	Well, if we see all these things, people think that we somehow still have time left.
	It's kind of a comforting myth.
	Like I said earlier, we're 30 years past the point of all of these type of things making that much of a difference.
	Even if we reduced our oil, globally, not just here in the U.S., but if we globally reduced our oil consumption by two-thirds, that would buy us a whole extra 25 years before we hit the peak.
	No, that's not going to happen.
	So there's not much we can do on a societal level to stave off the crisis.
	The crisis is here.
	We simply waited 40 years too long.
	You've got to now focus.
	Our entire brains have been socialized to think in terms of the mass culture.
	We don't think in terms of our own selves or our own communities anymore.
	But that's where you've got to focus.
	The focus should not be on lobbying John Kerry or George Bush or whoever to do whatever it is you think they should do, or to search out for some new supply of oil, for the reasons I've already explained.
	The solution for you is to start trying to get self-sufficient in yourself and your neighbors and maybe your local government, you know, if people will listen, which, and no offense, but a lot of your callers are just simply You know, they're showing all the reactions that people show when they're in denial.
	They don't want to deal with this situation.
	Well, it's pretty bleak, Matt.
	I know, and unfortunately, you know, if people had listened to the quote-unquote pessimist 40, 50 years ago, we wouldn't be in this situation.
	But every time somebody stood up, like the gentleman for whom, PICO is also called Hubbard's Peak.
	It's named after Dr. Marion King Hubbard, he was a Shell geophysicist, and in 1956 he stood up and said, look, U.S.
	oil production is going to peak in 1970.
	Nobody believed him.
	Everybody said, no, no, you're just a pessimist.
	And it did.
	And it did.
	And he said that global production would peak in 95, which it would have had it not been for the politically created oil shocks of the 1970s.
	We should be every day thanking the OPEC countries that they cut us off back in the 70s, because now that's bought us some extra time.
	All right.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Matt Sevenar.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	It's such a pleasure to talk to you, Mr. Art Bell.
	Thank you.
	Good evening to you and your guests.
	This is Bill from southwestern Las Vegas listening to you on 840 AM KXNT.
	Way to go.
	Okay.
	First of all, I agree with a lot of what he says.
	However, he seems to be, and I think a lot of the callers would agree, from what I've talked to other people about, is that he's mixing A lot of fear and panic type of ideas with these facts, which he is laying out.
	However, he's not mentioning the fact that in our government, be they liberal, conservative, these are highly intelligent people that are running our system.
	Now, I know there's people that disagree with that, but in general, you know, we have highly intelligent people.
	And how could these smart guys ever let this happen?
	Well, here's the thing.
	They know, as do most Americans, that This oil is going to be depleted and the people in government are privy to a lot more information about things like cold and thermonuclear fusion and it's really obvious that since oil is running the economy that as it's depleted we will start getting the introduction of things like fusion generators and in fact your
	Our radio stations have been talking about these kind of things.
	We've been getting reports about... We talk a lot about them, but sir, Matt's argument is a pretty good one, that even if we cranked one of these miracle workers up, we couldn't get the infrastructure in place in time to avoid the crash.
	I hear that very clearly.
	So, you know, what you're saying, Matt, is scary.
	I know, and what you're going to see is the When oil was $30 a barrel, when it was $40 a barrel, you would see less resistance from people to this idea.
	Well, why don't you respond directly to what he said?
	He said, you know, our people in Washington, they're really smart!
	They're smart!
	These guys really are on the ball!
	And why?
	They couldn't and wouldn't let this happen?
	They know of some other technology out there that's going to take over and save us because they're so damn smart!
	Oh, boy.
	What do you say?
	Well, I almost laughed when he said that.
	Now, he's right.
	They have known about this, and they do have access to information that you and I don't have.
	And we look at the documents that have been declassified, such as UKI's Alpha.
	That was from back in the 70s.
	There was a CIA report in the late 1970s that was recently declassified about the Soviet oil peak.
	That occurred in 1987.
	And there was, of course, the report that was commissioned by Dick Cheney in April 2001.
	And all of them said the same thing.
	And all of them offered the same solution, and that solution was military intervention to secure oil.
	And so he's right, how smart they are, you know, that's up for debate.
	But he's right, they do have a solution, and the solution is to secure oil through military intervention.
	Now what he's got to understand is the folks in power, whether they're liberal or conservative, they want economic growth as bad as anybody.
	They want cheap energy as bad as anybody.
	Let me just use an example, nuclear energy.
	People say, well, the environmentalists got in the way of nuclear energy.
	I say, do you really think that eight years of Reagan and four years of Bush, now another four years of second Bush, we're going to let some environmentalists stop them from pursuing a source of energy that could realistically provide us with healthy economic growth?
	It's a good point.
	It's a very good point.
	No, they're not, because they want cheap energy and a good economy is what gets you re-elected.
	You're right.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Matt Sevenar.
	Hi.
	Hi, how are you doing?
	Fine.
	Turn the radio off, please.
	Okay, we got it down right now.
	Good.
	How are you?
	Fine.
	Good.
	I have to disagree with your... That's fine.
	Go ahead.
	My great-grandmother was one of the head secretaries for Standard Oil.
	And I'm sure you heard this before, but she said it to me many times.
	Thank God she's still alive.
	I can laugh about it.
	They've capped more oil.
	She was there from 45 to about 75 as the head secretary for Standard Oil.
	My brother drove a tractor-trailer for Hale-Burton, which capped wells.
	He said the same thing back then.
	They've capped more wells.
	There's more oil under this country.
	And all this gloom and doom I keep hearing.
	Yes.
	It doesn't make sense to me.
	I think... In other words, you don't believe it?
	Well, I... You're coming right out and saying you don't believe it.
	The oil is there.
	There's plenty of oil, tons of oil under the ground, and we've tapped the oils.
	Did you hear that, Matt?
	I did, and we've covered it throughout the previous three hours of the show.
	A, you can bet your bottom dollar George Bush and big oil would be opening those wells if they thought they were going to bring the price of oil.
	Down from 55, down to something a little more affordable, because that would ensure that that bush gets reelected and that big oil has their man in office.
	That's right.
	And like we said before, the issue is not, you know, are there capped wells?
	Yes, absolutely there are capped wells, and if oil gets to the point where it's $75, $100, $150 a barrel, those wells will open up.
	There's also the issue of, again, you've got, and this is with shale oil, something I forgot to mention, it's not just the amount of money, it's the amount of, you have to think about energy.
	It may take, if it takes For shale oil, one of the problems has been that it takes as much energy to get one barrel of oil as that barrel of oil contains.
	I think the caller was referring to a newer technology for extraction from shale.
	Right.
	Alright, we don't have a lot of time.
	Wes for the Rockies, you're on the air with Matt Sevenar.
	Hello.
	Hello there.
	You asked for something positive about all of this.
	Oh yes.
	Well, at least for some of us, we'll be dead before it gets really, really bad.
	Well, that's been a prevailing attitude now on this whole question of the end of oil, you know?
	Hey, what the hell do I care?
	I'll be dead.
	But Matt's saying, if you've been listening closely, sir, that an economic collapse, the likes of which will send us back to the Stone Age, is going to occur and occur pretty soon.
	That's true.
	We're not going back to the Stone Age immediately.
	No, no, no, no.
	But a collapse that will eventually take us there, is what he's saying.
	And it's inevitable.
	So anyway, your positive point here was?
	That at least some of us will be gone before it gets really bad.
	We have young children.
	That's not going to be good.
	But for some of us, I mean, the best spell I can put on this is we'll be gone before this Bangladesh looks like a resort hotel.
	And so what do you say to that, Matt?
	It's an attitude.
	Well, good for him.
	A lot of us will still be here.
	What he may forget is that if he's old enough that he doesn't think he'll be here when things get bad, it means there won't be any health care.
	We're not going to have any energy to take care of him in his last years.
	What will happen is people of my generation, I was born in the 70s, what they're going to do is when somebody like him needs health care, we're going to say, Never bothered.
	You've used up all the energy, so you don't get any.
	You don't get the health care that we were able to provide many years ago.
	Pretty harsh.
	I know, but that's what's going to happen.
	You're going to see, because you already see it happening, where, you know, the amount of health, the level of health care we can provide to our elderly.
	All right, sir, do you have that, no IV for you, no oxygen for you?
	Yes, I certainly heard that.
	I actually have a question for him.
	Yes?
	At least we're finally starting to see in the mainstream media Even we're beginning to see on radio stations like this, that people are starting to actually discuss that there isn't so much oil that it'll last for a million years.
	That's true.
	But the thing we're not yet seeing, and I've been looking and I can't find, is descriptions of how elastic the economy is going to be, how gradually is it going to get worse, or how abruptly is it going to get worse.
	We see lots of pictures of where the number of barrels of oil... Alright, that's a really good question, Matt.
	Well, how drastic, you know, how drastic a slide and how quick and so forth?
	Conservatively, we'll be losing 1.5 to 3 percent of our supply per year.
	Now you couple that with we need, conservatively, 1.5 to 3 percent extra to feed economic growth.
	So that's a 3 to 6 percent shortfall between what we need for economic growth and what we'll pull to the ground.
	And that's conservatively.
	Like the report that just came out from Petroleum Review, a lot of countries are declining at a rate of 10, 15, 20 percent.
	And the rate of decline is picking up.
	Now, you throw on top of that disruptions in supply due to terrorism and war and issues like that, and we're only going to have more of those.
	People say, well, the recent run-up is because of the pipeline attacks.
	I say, well, if you look at where we're going to be getting an increasing percentage of the oil from, it's all from areas where you're going to have more and more pipeline attacks.
	This is, again, one of those comforting myths.
	that people offer.
	One is that, well, I'll be dead before it gets too bad.
	And two is, oh, it's going to be a nice gradual decline.
	Oil fields, say, in West Texas, when it peaks and goes into decline, there's not a need to keep pumping it like it's your only well.
	But when global production peaks, we're just going to keep pumping and pumping and pumping because there's nowhere else for us to go.
	Now, you throw that in with the disruptions in supply from war, weather, and terrorism, And the decline is going to happen a lot faster than people are hoping that it will.
	Alright.
	And in terms of your own situation, you know, you're better off erring on the side of pessimism than erring on the side of optimism, which is what we've been doing for 50 years.
	And for the last several hours.
	International Line, you're on the air with Matt Seminar.
	Mr. Seminar and Mr. Bell, how are you?
	Just spiffy, sir.
	Oh my God, this is just unreal.
	I feel like I'm going to annihilate.
	I'm so excited to talk to you.
	I've been waiting in the cold for about a half an hour now.
	Okay, well there you are.
	My name is Rory, and I'm calling from Rockton, Illinois, and I've got actually something that I've just been dying to tell you, Mr. Bell.
	Approximately four years ago, I lived up in the Traverse City, Michigan area, and I was out in my driveway about 2.30 in the morning, And I had my roommate and I were laying out on the driveway and we were looking up at the stars.
	Does this have to do with oil or UFOs?
	Yes, it does.
	It has to do with oil.
	And it has to do with energy also.
	Proceed.
	And it took me roughly three years to figure all this out.
	So if you've got just a second, I'll explain it and then I'll let you go because I'm cold.
	Go ahead.
	Okay.
	My roommate and I had saw an object in the sky that we watched come down through the layers of the upper atmosphere.
	I mean, we could see this object, and this object was a bluish-silverish color.
	The object stopped in position and then moved across the sky at such a high rate, I couldn't understand with conventional physics as to how, if it were manned... Okay, well, connect it to oil.
	Okay, so basically that brought a lot of questions on and I called umpteen different government agencies to ask them in regards to how they could have the energy to power such a craft.
	And where it led me was is to a organization called DARPA.
	Are you familiar with who they are?
	I certainly am.
	Oh yeah.
	Okay.
	I had gotten sent through to DARPA and I was only to talk to DARPA about some of the concepts that I had in regards to energy that could power this craft.
	What did DARPA say?
	DARPA said that I'm only to speak with them and only to call them back and talk to them.
	They had, I had talked to them in regards to, I live by Batavia, Illinois, which, Rockton, Illinois, is just west of Batavia, where Fermilab, are you familiar with what Fermilab is?
	Yes, I am.
	Okay.
	Basically, my quest for what energy could have powered something to this speed and, you know, could have basically, you know, defied all laws of inertia and current physics and propulsion as I know it.
	Yes.
	It had to have run on something, you know, like anti-matter.
	Okay.
	All right.
	We're going to hold it right there.
	I've got the drift.
	Now, this is, it's falling into the same category as the little black boxes.
	Yeah, it's like this.
	All right.
	Let me use AIDS as an example.
	HIV has devastated Africa.
	All right.
	Now, an average villager in Africa If they read or they hear about some miracle cure that Magic Johnson has access to, because Magic Johnson is not only a successful basketball player, he's also a very successful business person.
	He's got millions of dollars to spend on the most recent treatment for HIV.
	Well, it's a little bit ridiculous for the average African villager to think they're going to have access to that treatment and that that's going to save their community from the ravages of HIV.
	Likewise, even if DARPA has access to antimatter power, Is that going to save the average person?
	The average person needs to be thinking about how they're going to get food and water and energy and heat and medicine and things like that.
	And the chances of UFO technology and anti-matter or whatever coming to save them are about the chances of the AIDS treatment available to Matt Johnson saving those villagers in Africa.
	So hey, I hope that it's real and it'd be great.
	Yeah, it would be great.
	Any of these things would be great, but Uh, you've got to proceed as if they won't happen.
	As if the little green guys will not come down and hand us the free energy or that even we'll come up with it ourselves.
	We have to proceed With what we know we need, and will need, and what that's going to do to our economy, and how quickly it's going to do it to our economy, and that's been the whole thrust, I think, of what you've been saying, no matter what else happens.
	Yeah, it's like you get folks who, you know, if you're experiencing a financial collapse in your own life, hoping that they're going to win the lottery, and they're going to be able to use that money to feed their kids.
	Yeah.
	I'll tell you about it.
	People don't like messengers.
	They shoot messengers.
	Hey, don't say that.
	Well, metaphorically.
	Yeah.
	That's why you've had so much intellectual challenge.
	You know, what a bunch of leftist garbage.
	They don't want to believe it.
	They don't want to believe it.
	And the response you're going to get is going to be, it's going to range from fear to anger.
	Yeah, well, there will be people living in abandoned gas stations in 50 years still claiming that it was the fault of big oil.
	You have other people saying it was the fault of the environmentalists.
	You have other people saying, well, hey, shale oil is about to come online and we're going to be back in the good old days.
	You know, so, you know.
	Alright, look, your message is clear.
	Our program is over.
	Your website is www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net.
	Folks, go there.
	Buddy, thank you for being here.
	Thank you for having me.
	And good night.
	Good night.
	Alright, this is Crystal Gale.
	She has just the right words to end this weekend.
	See you next weekend, everybody.
	Good night.
	Midnight in the desert, shooting stars across the sky.
	This magical journey will take us on a ride.

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