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Oct. 3, 2004 - Art Bell

02:52:20

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Cleve Backster - Plant Perceptions

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	🎵Music🎵 From the high desert and the great American southwest, an
	area just adjacent to Area 51.
	you This is Close to Close A.M.
	Weekend version.
	I'm Art Bell.
	Glad to be here this evening with all of you and an honor and a privilege to be able to host your weekend.
	How's your weekend going?
	It's going to be an extremely interesting night tonight.
	Cleve Baxter is here and he's the original guy who did all the research on the plants.
	And by the way, I want to call your attention to a photograph up on the website.
	It's pretty cool.
	You've got to dig in a little bit past the front story and continue with the article, you know, on the second page, and then you just click on, oh, where is it, the photos from Fate Magazine, and these are pretty impressive.
	They're, you know, a photograph really does convey millions of words, and the photograph on the front page here is, or at least on the Fate Magazine portion on the second page, was ideas of two such plants one exposed to well a classical music soothing classical music and they're just growing and they're happy and they're green and they're prolific and then down below it is one you can see a little the amp up above on the job they're exposed to acid rock and they are dying deadly drooping in brown they have been killed by acid rock
	I wonder what that says.
	Anyway, the subject for next hour with the man who did all of this, Cleve Baxter.
	Now, in the world right now, bloodied by weeks of suicide bombings and assassinations, Iraqi security forces emerged Sunday to control Samarra after a morale-boosting victory in the Sunni Triangle city And U.S.
	commanders praise their performance.
	American and Iraqi commanders have declared the operation in Samara 60 miles northwest of Baghdad to be a successful first step in a major push to wrest key areas of Iraq from insurgents before the elections in January.
	So, a little good news.
	It's not too many nights on the job here.
	You get to read any good news at all.
	But that's a little good news from Iraq for a change.
	Now, The volcano.
	Headline, Mount St.
	Helens may take weeks to erupt.
	I know people who have already displaced themselves, getting out of the way of what they fear will be worse than what the scientists predict.
	Mount St.
	Helens stewed in volcanic gases and low-level earthquakes Sunday with crowds of eager tourists hoping to glimpse an eruption The time to set good happened immediately or in a few weeks now.
	A second long tremor earlier on Sunday and an increase in volcanic gases strongly suggest magma is on the move.
	Researchers from the US Geological Survey said the mountains alert was raised to level 3, the highest possible after a volcanic tremor was detected Saturday for the first time since the mountains 1980 eruption.
	So, I wonder if earthquake prediction is like hurricane track prediction.
	Not exactly a totally settled science, apparently.
	So, it could go kaboom!
	or it could just go ssss or it could do nothing at all. I suppose there is that range, but they have it at level
	three, indicating, get ready, here she comes.
	The military now is in the final stages of readying its National Ballistic Missile Defense System. Did you know
	that? Officials predicting it will be activated before year's end. But several questions remain, including how well the
	experimental missile interceptors actually work.
	The Pentagon, of course, maintains that any defense against intercontinental ballistic missiles is better than none.
	Critics contend the Bush administration is vastly overselling an expensive, unproven defense system.
	So, we have the missiles poised to do their job.
	However, apparently, they're not certain whether they will do their job.
	And maybe we will not know until there is an intercontinental ballistic attack.
	And then you're going to want to cross your fingers, knock on whatever you got, pressed wood, whatever.
	we'll be back in a moment incidentally uh... last night's guest doctor uh... testerson
	I told you that was a good book, and it would appear so.
	You are at least taking a chance on it.
	Her book, Gravity, was in the thousands on Amazon.com, and we did the program last night.
	I gave you my personal endorsement.
	This book is one exciting book, probably the most exciting I've ever read.
	And said, go grab it.
	You know, just go grab it.
	Trust me on this and go grab it at Amazon.com.
	It has risen from somewhere in the thousands to like number 36 on Amazon.
	So, obviously a lot of you are taking my recommendation and what I would hope is that after you've read it, you will send me an email.
	That's easy to do.
	I'm quite accessible on the web.
	Artbell at Minespring.com or artbell at AOL.com.
	And give me your assessment.
	I thought it truly was about the most exciting book I've ever read.
	Yes, it's a little on the techie side, although not in a way that the average person cannot digest quite readily, particularly those of you who listen to this program.
	I mean, you're just going to suck it up.
	You're going to love it.
	All right.
	In the morning, the X Prize may be won.
	Mojave, California, $10 million riding on a 90-second rocket blast over California's Mojave Desert on Monday morning.
	In some time zones, that is today.
	If Spaceship One follows its flight plan, including a straight-up trajectory above a 100-kilometer altitude mark and then back down again, the team behind that spacecraft will win the X Prize That's ten million dollars, as well as the trophy and multi-million dollar purse that goes with it, but anything can happen, as was demonstrated during Spaceship One's two previous space flights.
	In June, unexpected wind shear and a control system glitch knocked the plane off course last Wednesday during the first prize-worthy flight.
	There have to be two to win the prize.
	Spaceship One ...experienced an unanticipated dramatic roll that led its skipper, veteran test pilot Mike Melville, to shut the engine down 11 seconds early.
	In both cases, Spaceship One successfully went beyond the 100-kilometer mark in altitude.
	And so, this is serious stuff.
	Monday's flight, due to begin at the Mojave Airport at 7 a.m.
	sharp.
	Serves as the climax of the eight-year XPRIZE program following up on Spaceship One's first official spaceflight in June, last Wednesday's flight.
	Payback at last.
	Success would result in the first substantial payback for Mojave Aerospace Ventures, the corporation that builds the rocket Spaceship One.
	It would bring vindication for the main players behind the venture, spacecraft designer Burt Rutan, of course.
	of Mojave Bay Scaled Composites and the venture's financial backer, software billionaire, Paul Allen, who said he has now invested more than $20 million to win the $10 million prize.
	Rutan and Allen already are looking forward to future payoffs from SpaceshipOne as well, though.
	And what they say, basically, is that this is for us.
	It'll establish in the minds of the average American, all of us, the fact that it is something that you can actually consider in your lifetime, space tourism, that you can buy a seat to space.
	I wonder how many of you would if you could.
	Now, you heard Tess last night on the danger of going into space, the probable number of things, percentage-wise, that can go wrong and kill you in any given flight.
	Based on the accidents that have occurred so far.
	Now this, of course, is a private effort.
	Perhaps not as many moving parts as the shuttle, but, nevertheless, you'd have to think it over very carefully.
	Would you pay to do it?
	Anyway, I wish them Godspeed, and wish them well, and hope they win the prize, because it will open a new era.
	Where all of us might consider that in our lifetimes, wouldn't that be something?
	You just sort of never imagine that possible.
	But in our lifetimes, we might get that ride.
	We might get to take a ride.
	Question is, would you?
	Remember we were talking last night about ELF and the fact that the Navy is now giving up in Wisconsin?
	And the areas where they have all these gigantic antennas to talk to submarines.
	You remember that?
	Good.
	Here's a email from a lieutenant, I'm not going to give his name, a lieutenant commander, a U.S.
	Navy retired.
	Our Navy's TACAMO, T-A-C-A-M-O, an acronym for I don't know what, uses VLF and is survivable.
	This means very low frequency, not extremely.
	I used to be a mission commander airborne communications officer for both the Pacific and Atlantic tours of duty.
	Get this, with a seven-mile, plus-plus, dual-trailing wire, that means a seven-mile wire behind an aircraft.
	Two of them, actually.
	One shorter than the other.
	It serves as a counterpoise.
	Signals, in fact, do get to the subs.
	It uses a secret modulation technique to get below the noise level.
	But as a ham operator myself, I once convinced the Navy to keep CW as well.
	To the human mind, trained CW operators can indeed hear a steady tone below the noise floor.
	I flew a C-130Q for years.
	We orbit to get the wire vertical, both helically.
	Now they use E6As, a 707 variant with big turbo bypass engines.
	Fixed ELF stations are not survivable.
	I'll get it, survivable.
	Costly, and of course, politically unsavory in Michigan.
	Harp, VLF, and chemtrails have nothing to do with each other.
	Okay, I guess I can buy that aircraft with trailing wires could do that, but would that be the normal way that we would communicate with our subs minus, you know, the ELF capability?
	You would think during stressful times we might not be able to get aircraft where we would want them to accomplish this.
	With X number of miles of wire trailing behind them, it seems a kind of a clumsy way to achieve communication with any given submarine under the water.
	What do you think?
	Now here's an interesting one.
	Scientists Rumble Earth's Hum.
	Here's a headline for you from The Guardian, of course, an English paper.
	Scientists have solved the mystery of a global hum Which has plagued them since it was discovered back in 1998.
	The constant drone at low frequencies, we've heard many complain of it, right?
	Well below the range of human hearing, shows up in seismic measurements, but cannot be explained by events like earthquakes.
	Jukay Rhee and Barbara Romanowski from the University of California, Berkeley blame the hum on stormy oceans.
	Writing in the journal Nature today, they suggest Rough water sets the Earth's crust shaking, causing the hum.
	The sound is probably caused by the conversion of storm energy to ocean waves, which interact with the shape of the ground at the bottom of the sea.
	Humming.
	The hum is faint, but it represents the release of energy equivalent to an earthquake of magnitude 5.75 to 6.
	It is made up of notes in the frequency range of between 2 and 7 millihertz, in musical terms, or about 16 octaves below middle C. To pin down the hum source, the researchers analyzed seismic data from ground monitoring stations in California and Japan from the last 60 days in 2000, when there were no earthquakes, to drown out the noise.
	They worked out the hum was Tied to winter in each hemisphere, when ocean storms are most severe, our results show the ocean plays a key role in the excitation of Earth's hum.
	So there you have it.
	They found what causes that hum, and they're saying it's crashing ocean waves, reverberating, setting up a vibration at the very base of the ocean.
	A kind of an interesting story from Georgia.
	It was 1959 or 60, as best as Smith remembers, as he trawled for shrimp off the coast of Georgia.
	But his net snagged on something big, an object so heavy he had to get a diving buddy to shake the net loose.
	You know what he caught, huh?
	He caught a nuclear weapon.
	He dived down, and when he came up, he said, hey, that's a bomb!
	recalled Smith, 72 years of age.
	I wrote him much of the time.
	Thought he was cutting the fool, or something was the expression.
	Smith's story still fascinates his 50-year-old son, Glenn, the younger Smith.
	Figures his dad caught the so-called Tybee bomb, a 7,600-pound nuclear device Dumped by a damaged B-47 bomber in February of 1958.
	And so they now think they may know where this bomb is.
	The Air Force is hot and cold on going to get it, at one point saying, eh, nah, you know, leave it where it is, wherever it is.
	They did go look for it and gave up a long time ago.
	Now, they may go back and take another look.
	But in the meantime, there are others, Ms.
	Fother, for example, Who says he let the mystery drop after retrieving the net, and others who want to go out and take a boat and go and get their nuclear bomb, or our nuclear bomb, actually.
	Boy, I'll tell ya, if you owned a nuclear weapon, you would be the envy of the neighborhood!
	Well, I don't know about maybe not the envy.
	You'd be well-respected, no question about that.
	Imagine!
	Owning a nuclear bomb.
	A nuclear bomb of your own.
	One that you could have, oh, I don't know, in the basement.
	And every now and then, as you know, I'd be a hell of a conversation piece.
	You wouldn't believe what I have in my basement.
	And you could put a little clock on top that would tick down to impress visitors.
	Wildcard line, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Yes.
	What if there's like a Domino effect chain reaction type thing going on.
	With what?
	You mean with volcanoes or what?
	Yeah.
	They drill for oil.
	They go to war for oil.
	Korea with the nuclear bomb testing.
	And the cavities from the oil.
	They put it all together.
	You know?
	The ELF thing.
	I don't know if you can put that together.
	No.
	No, I don't know if you can do that.
	But a chain reaction, or a lot of volcanoes going off at one time, now that does have meaning, I think, sir, and it seems to me it means that down in our Earth, we have a connection.
	You know, all that boiling and toiling and lava down there, and when it gets excited, it comes up virtually everywhere.
	What if we're exciting it?
	What if Korea is exciting it, or the military with the ELF, and the hurricanes and the storms?
	Mazel tov, let's throw in a harp!
	What about harp?
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Okay, well, you're willing to toss just about everything in.
	Who knows what's, uh, what's doing it?
	It may be that we just need to sacrifice a couple of virgins.
	Something.
	Maybe they were right back then.
	I mean, they did stop, right?
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Yeah.
	Hello.
	Hello, is this Art?
	That would be me, yes.
	Yes, this is John.
	I had called you before about the magnetic field at Coral Castle.
	Uh, oh, the magnetic field at Coral Castle, yes.
	The magnetic wheel?
	Yes.
	Uh, I sent you an email with some, uh, big news.
	Okay, what would that be?
	Uh, the email's, uh... Well, just, just a note, we're, but we don't have email right now, so we're on the air.
	Oh, you don't?
	Encapsulate it for me.
	What, what was the big news?
	I found a code at Coral Castle.
	You found what?
	A code, a secret code.
	What kind of secret code?
	That's... It's so hard to describe verbally.
	If you could get to the site, it would explain everything.
	I set it up... Yes, I understand, but I can't right now, so just make your best attempt.
	Just give me a sense of what kind of secret code it is.
	Okay, on the cover of Ed's book, you'll see two lines, two little current lines.
	Yeah.
	It almost looks like a design just for the book.
	Yeah.
	If you take that, those lines, and overlap them, you get a pattern.
	And it's a... So, okay, so you think then that this man... It is the flower of life.
	I got it.
	So you think he's put the secret code on the cover of the book?
	I know he did.
	In other words, hide it in plain sight, right?
	Exactly.
	All right.
	I get it.
	I get it.
	And I'll look for the email and pursue that.
	Thank you.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	This is Olin.
	Olin, turn your radio off.
	I just did.
	Thank you.
	In Culver City, California.
	Yes.
	I think that these volcanoes are coming from burned ocean floor sediment.
	That is subducted under the edge of the continent by spreading ocean floor.
	Now this buried sediment turns calcium carbonate into calcium oxide and carbon dioxide while the water turns into superheated steam and that floats upward and explodes out of the top right above the subduction zone at the edge of the continents.
	So, if you just look at this ring of fire, it's all around the edge of the Pacific Ocean, where the ocean floor is subducting under the edge of the continents.
	How do you feel about the concept of two virgins being sacrificed to put a rest to all of this?
	That would be a terrible waste.
	All right, I'll take that as your reaction.
	And indeed, that is a legitimate reaction.
	From the high desert in the middle of the night, which is where we do all kinds of biz, this is Coast to Coast AM.
	I'm Art Bell.
	Log on now.
	Oh, don't bring me down.
	You want to stay up with your fancy friends.
	I'm telling you it's time to be here.
	Don't bring me down.
	No, no, no, no, no.
	Oh, I'm.
	Oh.
	Oh, oh,
	oh, oh,
	oh, And we still have time, we might still get by.
	Every time I think about it, I wanna cry.
	With bombs in the basement, little kids keep coming.
	No way to be easy, no time to be young.
	Alright everybody, listen carefully.
	Our numbers on the weekend are a little different.
	So if you want to get through, we're going into open lines.
	Here they are.
	To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
	The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
	To talk with Art Bell from East of the Rockies, call toll free at 800-825-5033.
	From west to the Rockies, call Art at 800-618-8255.
	International callers may reach Art Bell by calling your in-country Sprint Access number, pressing Option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
	800-893-0903. From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM
	It is indeed.
	Good morning, everybody.
	It is a fine morning here in the desert.
	Presently about 65 degrees out there.
	If you've got something really cool to share with all of us, then pick up your phone, dial
	one of those numbers, and in a moment, we'll rock.
	A nuclear bomb would be really cool, wouldn't it?
	I was going to mount a rocket in our front yard.
	You know, like about a 20 or 30 foot rocket.
	I figured that would get neighborhood respect, but Ramona wouldn't let me do it.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hey, how are you doing tonight?
	I'm just fine.
	Yeah, this is Tom.
	I'm up here in northern Alabama heading into Tennessee.
	Yes, yes sir.
	Yeah, you talked about that hydrogen, or that bomb earlier.
	I was watching that the other night, and they said that was a multi-megaton hydrogen bomb.
	Oh, it's a big one, yes.
	And whatever it is, it was Savannah Harbor or somewhere like that, sitting right in the harbor.
	Oh, well, I don't know if they're sure about that yet, but there are stories here, so yeah, it's there somewhere.
	That sure ruined the fishing, wouldn't it?
	Um, I really don't know.
	Actually, I'm told that most things that fall into the ocean like that actually help the fish.
	Unless, of course, it blows up and then... Yeah, it makes the fish glow in the dark, you know.
	Oh, another thing is, my wife's upset with you.
	Oh.
	Because you changed your intro from what you used to do to the Kingdom of Night, and she misses your old intro like that.
	Um, did I, did I say that?
	I don't know, I think I've modified and morphed that intro over the years into all sorts of different, whatever I feel like doing at the moment.
	Yeah, the old one from, like I said, the old one when you used to have a show full time, from the Kingdom of Nye.
	Yes, well, indeed it is the Kingdom of Nye, sir, believe me.
	This area where I live is...
	While we are now, I am told, the fastest growing unincorporated town in America.
	Can you believe that for Pahrump?
	Oh, you ought to see what's going on around here.
	It's incredible.
	There's building going on everywhere.
	It's like a land grab going on in Pahrump here.
	And when we moved here, it was a sleepy, little, you know, sort of suburban desert town, and now it's blossoming into this incredible thing.
	And another five years, we'll probably have 100,000 people here.
	I think there may be in the order of 30 to 40, maybe closer to 40,000.
	No one's really sure.
	It's really everywhere you look.
	It's growing like crazy.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	I was on hold for a little bit.
	I was wanting to talk about, because I was having a discussion in a chat channel about why should we go to the moon or even space?
	I mean, what will we gain from the knowledge of our solar system?
	Probably the graphs and technology of the masses didn't tell us what exactly happened to our solar system and why we sustain life and live when other planets don't.
	Well, why should we do it is the question, huh?
	Yeah, why do it?
	We're wasting money.
	Alright, wasting money.
	Um, hmm.
	I, you know, I'll bet this argument has been made...
	Since the very beginning of people who venture forth into the unknown.
	Why do it?
	Why go across that ocean?
	You know the Earth is flat!
	You know damn well the Earth is flat!
	And a proposal to sail off the end of the Earth is stupid!
	And it's a waste of the Queen's jewelry!
	And money!
	So, there's rarely an answer to that question, except the unknown very frequently brings Riches beyond all belief and knowledge that humanity needs, and so that argument has never worked for me.
	I don't know how it does on you.
	East of the Rockies, you are on the air.
	Hello.
	Hey, it's MJ from Detroit.
	Yes.
	A couple of years ago, you were talking about black mold.
	Oh, black mold, yes.
	Yeah, they had a program on one of the local stations here in Detroit.
	This was a couple of years ago.
	They went into this lady's house because she had a problem with black mold, and I'll tell you, the entire House was just overtaken with this.
	Everything.
	Carpet, furniture, walls.
	It was like carpeting on there.
	Well, if you let it get out of control like that, then I can't imagine.
	How could she just sit there and let it take over everything?
	Well, she says that she scrubbed and scrubbed and the stuff would just come out.
	You know, it was a fairly nice house, too.
	It wasn't like some dump or something.
	So, you're saying it grew so fast that despite her best efforts, which she did make, it literally covered everything?
	It just grew that fast.
	They had a shot of the reporters walking into the house.
	I don't know if they did this as a retake, but when they opened the door, there was like a cloud of gas that just came out the door.
	Incredible.
	And her insurance company would not touch it.
	And this was a mother, she wasn't married apparently, had children.
	And her entire house was just being destroyed by this.
	It was just unbelievable.
	It was literally eating things.
	It would eat holes in things.
	That's incredible.
	It really was.
	Back when we ran the story, what shocked me about it was that we were getting so many of the, you would expect these black mold stories at the coast where there's a great deal of humidity, anywhere where there's a great deal of humidity, but lo and behold, We were getting stories from Phoenix all the way up into this area about black mold, and one just has to wonder a little bit how you could collect enough moisture under general circumstances, not flooding or pipe breaking, that sort of thing, but under general circumstances to feed something like that in the desert.
	It does not make sense.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Yeah, if they say borax, making a paste out of borax is the only way to kill that black mold.
	Really?
	This is Stephen Phoenix.
	Hey, Steve.
	I was hoping for a little help from your audience to refresh my memory.
	I heard a couple of interviews, or at least I think I did, saying that that X-Prize has to be a three-man crew.
	No, no, no.
	I think that it must be a spacecraft capable of carrying a three-man crew.
	I don't know if it's specified that all three have to do that.
	I was under the impression that this is a one-man rocket.
	Secondly, you had a nurse on, an Army nurse, that was an advocate for the Gulf War Syndrome.
	Joyce Riley.
	Yes.
	Could you get her back on to discuss those 300 U.S.
	servicemen who died from the pneumonia last year?
	I would like to know certainly more about that, and I will see what I can do.
	There's an awful lot of intense study going on right now in Iraq.
	With regard to, for example, depleted uranium and its effect on the troops.
	Awful lot of study going on, and I've seen some pretty worrying stories, so you might want to look into that.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello, Art.
	Yes.
	Art, my name is Steve.
	I'm calling from Tampa Bay, Florida.
	Hello, Steve.
	Several months ago, I was driving to pick up my wife.
	It was well after dark.
	Sky was black.
	They were very wispy, scattered clouds and a full moon.
	I saw a shape which I've never seen before.
	Steve, turn your radio off for me.
	You saw a shape where?
	Now let me tell you about this, and I want to know if any of the listeners have ever seen anything similar.
	The only way that I could even see it, it was totally unlit.
	But what it did do was it blocked out whatever was, you know, beyond it.
	That way I saw it was a shape.
	It was elongated, totally black.
	It looked sort of like a dirigible, a rather large one, except that it was wider in the middle than an average dirigible and pointed at both ends.
	And it was definitely slowly moving.
	I was surprised there was no reason for there to be a dirigible above St.
	Petersburg Clearwater International Airport.
	It's a commercial airport.
	It would have been kind of dangerous, but it was high up.
	And it was just sort of slowly floating up there and I just wondered if anybody has ever seen anything similar.
	Alright, we'll throw that in the ether and I can assure you if they have I will get many emails on the subject.
	There are many, many, many unusual, strange, unaccounted for things in our skies.
	That's for certain.
	What percentage of them actually might turn out to be Other than earthly origin is a gigantic question.
	First time caller line, you are on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi, this is Donette from Oregon.
	Welcome.
	I have a couple things I want to mention.
	One time, you know the chemtrails from like the jets?
	Yes.
	I saw it was circles over and over and over again as far as I could see.
	Perfect circles.
	I've never heard of anything like it before, never seen anything like it before.
	Sounds like God blowing smoke rings.
	But they were perfect circles, like, as far as you could see.
	Actually, let me offer an explanation for that.
	Okay.
	There are some new propulsion systems that cause a craft to fly at very high velocities by Virtually having explosions.
	You know, actual explosions.
	Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.
	Like that.
	Would they be really big circles, like miles across?
	Well, after they'd had a chance to grow, you bet they would.
	It's much like, you know, it's kind of like blowing smoke circles.
	When you blow one from your mouth, it comes out a little big one, right?
	But then it gets bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger.
	Well, that happens at an atmospheric level as well.
	So, in all likelihood, That's what you were observing.
	Anyway, that's my best guess.
	A type of propulsion.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi, my name is Richard from Phoenix.
	Hey there.
	Hey, I just want to talk to you about a certain concern of mine, and I hope people follow through with this, and I've heard about these chips that people are going to get installed either inside their forehead or in their hand, and they're put out by Motorola and the Mondex Corporation.
	A friend showed me Some stuff about it on the internet.
	And why are they having them installed?
	Okay, so people can get tracked, like a tracking device.
	So, you know, the original idea is good.
	It's like, see, you don't get your identity stolen.
	Yes.
	But, I don't know, I believe in a lot of things about the Bible.
	A lot of it's true, I think, that there's also, like, a mark.
	And if we get something put inside of us like that... Oh, I've heard this, yes.
	All right, well, so when they come to you and they say, look, your credit cards are no good anymore, buddy.
	You might as well rip them up and shred them.
	And the other ways you have of paying for things also are no good anymore.
	And so we have this little chip that we'd like to inject so that you can continue living like a, well, you know, the life you've become accustomed to.
	So will you take the chip or not?
	No, I will not.
	So you're going to become a street person then.
	I guess they'll have to go by barter or something, because it's going to be real bad if they do that.
	I know you won't be able to pay your rent without it or anything like that, but I hope people, the more people don't do it, the better.
	That way there'll be enough people against it.
	And there's a lot of people I've talked to, they don't want, no matter what religion they are, they don't want some stuff installed from their skin.
	Well, right.
	You know, I think that's probably right.
	Not a lot of people are going to want it.
	Particularly here in the West.
	Where we do have that view of the number and the beast, right?
	What about the rest of you?
	If you were confronted with that sort of bleak decision to continue living in the manner to which you had become accustomed, or becoming a street person, you decide not to take the chip.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	This is Dale calling from Austin, Texas.
	Yes, Dale.
	What's up?
	Ghost.
	Ghosts are up?
	I've had this problem for months.
	On April 15th of this year, a little after midnight, the lights are out.
	There's somebody in the bathroom right here by the bedroom, urinating.
	This went on for several seconds.
	The entity, you can smell cigar smoke all the time.
	There's nobody that smokes here.
	Yeah, you wouldn't think that a ghost would have to urinate, mostly, but I suppose it could be a...
	Ghostly stream?
	I don't know.
	You just wouldn't think that would be something a ghost would have to do.
	Is there a way I could find a local person to find out what's here?
	Get somebody with a Ouija board or something?
	I'm tired of it.
	Doors slam.
	Three years ago, doors would slam in another apartment in the daytime.
	At night, taking showers, doors slam.
	What can I do?
	What can you do?
	Well, I don't know.
	I don't know, honestly.
	I mean, there are perhaps some people you could contact.
	I don't... Alright, I'll listen through and maybe somebody can give some suggestions on your program.
	I appreciate it.
	Alright, take care.
	You know, as many calls as we get like that, even though it seems like a joke, there ought to be some Ghostbusters.
	You know, that...
	You know, for a fee, you would go to a place and stop ghosts from urinating in the middle of the night or whatever all they're up to.
	Maybe there'd be money in that by now.
	Look at the number of calls.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello?
	Hello there?
	No, huh?
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Honey!
	Hello?
	Just responding earlier to the caller about the shift, I definitely would not have a foot in.
	You wouldn't?
	No!
	Are you afraid of someone cutting off my arm and wanting to use it?
	And stealing your identity?
	Absolutely.
	Well, wouldn't it be suspicious, though, if you went into a store and you swiped somebody else's arm?
	Ah, that could get messed up.
	You long, bloody stub.
	Here, let me run this across the scanner.
	I don't know.
	do you think criminals would would go to that that uh...
	that length so to speak travel with the person that gunpoint here on your hand over
	the scanner uh... well uh... that's a large was that's true
	Wherever there will be criminals, there will be new ways of taking your money.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hey, Art.
	Hi, this is Paul from Fresno.
	Hey, Paul.
	Hey, what happened on that ham thing that you... I think there was two of them, the way I understood it.
	When you heard that signal, and then the...
	They investigated it, and it sounded, man, all that stuff sounded pretty good to me.
	I think you're the first discoverer of an E.T.
	signal.
	Oh no.
	But this is kind of a second event, and you could tell me what happened on that, and then also one other thing.
	You know, your deal about When you die, don't go toward the light, like the guy said.
	Maybe go toward the other one.
	Yes.
	Well, maybe you don't have a choice.
	Well, I don't know.
	It does seem like there's a choice.
	It seems like you die and there's a light on one side and darkness on the other.
	And it has forever bothered me that John passed that on to me, that somebody else, that Whitley allegedly said that.
	Knowledge gleaned from I don't know where.
	But just hearing it once and hearing the suggestion that It could be a trick.
	And if you go toward the light, you're really going to burn in the fire, fiery hell that awaits the bad people below, because you made the wrong choice.
	Somehow you wouldn't think that God would set up a trick question, would you?
	Upon death.
	God just wouldn't do that.
	Although, one never knows, and maybe God has more of a sense of humor, and it's much drier than we thought.
	Well, to the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning, Art.
	Hi.
	Just wondering if any of your listeners know the, uh, the Wenatchee, uh, tribe, uh, legend of Mount St.
	Helens.
	And what is it?
	Reader's Digest, condensed version.
	Well, no, no, no, no.
	You give it to me, if you can.
	Basically, there were two chiefs that both had the love for the same woman, and they kept sending their people to war Trying to get the love of this woman by making war against each other.
	Well, the Great Spirit saw this, made it rain for a long time till all the fires went out.
	Well, these two chiefs decided, you know, we've just got to put this fighting to an end.
	And they saw up on a hill, a teepee with fire in it.
	And they went, and the two brothers, who finally got along after fighting over this woman for years, there in the tent was the woman.
	Now, she had fire again, and she said, if you will stop fighting and stop this useless killing, you know, we will make you a permanent part of the landscape.
	She was, I guess, Mother Nature.
	I didn't quite understand that part of it.
	But, They turned one into, one Indian chief into Mount Rainier, the other Indian chief into the, oh gosh, the other mountain south of it, and the mountain in between was her, Mount St.
	Helen.
	I don't think these stories are meant to be literal.
	I think they're meant to be metaphoric.
	Okay.
	Don't you?
	Yes.
	But the entire premise of the whole story to tell the tribe was, you You know, if you are sent into useless wars and kill each other for useless reasons, Mount St.
	Helen will blow again.
	Okay, well, maybe that's it.
	And maybe somebody got made a deal.
	You know, one of those deals?
	One of the ones you just can't refuse?
	I'm Art Bell.
	The devil went down to Georgia, he was looking for a soul to steal.
	He was in a bind, cause he was way behind, he was willing to make a deal.
	When he came across this young man sawin' on a fiddle and playin' it hot.
	And the devil jumped up on a hickory stump and said, boy, let me tell you what.
	Want to time travel?
	Go back to Past Joe's on Stringlink.
	Sign up online at coasttocoastam.com.
	Played a pretty good fiddle, boy, but give the devil his due.
	I bet a fiddle of gold against your soul, cause I think I better do.
	The boy said, my name's Johnny, and it might be a sin, but I'll take your bet you're gonna regret, cause I'm the best it's ever been.
	To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
	The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
	To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll free at 800-825-5033.
	From west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
	To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll free at 800-825-5033.
	From west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
	International callers may reach Art by calling your in-country Sprint Access number, pressing
	option 5, and dialing toll free, 800-893-0903.
	From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	For all these years of doing this program, I've heard these rumors approaching the giant
	myth category about Cleve Baxter and his work.
	you And I've seen and talked to people who have recited some of Cleve Baxter's work.
	But tonight, here is Cleve Baxter.
	Cleve Baxter is the founder of the Baxter Research Foundation and currently teaches at the Baxter School of Lie Detection.
	He's also on the teaching faculty at California Institute for Human Science and serves on the advisory board at the Institute of Heart Math.
	Cleve is an international speaker on the subject of biocommunication, has been a professional observer of human psycho-psychological tracings since 1948.
	Long, long time.
	Since 1966, Cleve has conducted extensive research related to observed electrical responses in plant life And at a cellular level in other living organisms.
	His research into what he has called, or has been called, the Baxter Effect,
	has attracted worldwide attention, and as I mentioned, has been sort of recited here,
	sometimes, I thought, almost as myth, the work Cleve Baxter has done, in a moment, from the man
	himself.
	As promised, here he is, Cleve Baxter, as promised, here he is, Cleve Baxter,
	Cleve, welcome to the program.
	Thank you very much.
	It really is an honor to have you here.
	I mean, I really have.
	I've heard people quoting your work and all, you know, talking about you for years and years and years, and so it's great to actually talk to the person, finally, who did the research.
	And that's kind of, I guess, what I'd like to hear about first, how all of this It began for you, and I'm sure you've told this probably a million times, you're getting tired of it, but you know, you've got to know when you're doing an interview like this, you've got to know, how did it begin?
	Actually, it began back in New York City, in a laboratory I had there.
	I had only two plants in this laboratory.
	I had a Dracaena cane plant, that's one of those with a long trunk and long leaves, and a rubber plant.
	And it occurred to me one night, because I work very much late at night in polygraph research, I wonder how long it takes water to get from the root area of that Dracaena all the way up through that trunk and down into those long leaves.
	So I figure, well, you know, I've got polygraph equipment all over the place.
	I was at school, we were running back then, and the galvanic skin response section of the polygraph is supposed to measure resistance changes.
	That's right.
	I thought if I took a couple of those electrodes that we use, the finger contacts on people, and just sort of strap them on each side of one of those long leaves down toward the end, after I watered the plant, as the contaminated water would go up the trunk and down into the leaves, the leaf would become a better conductor.
	That's right.
	And I should be able to get a tracing that showed me the rate of climb.
	You would find, in other words, you were looking for less resistance as the water made its way up?
	Yes, the contaminated water would be a better conductor and make the leaf better.
	Absolutely.
	And is that what you got?
	No, it isn't.
	If anything, the leaf trended downward, the tracing from the leaf trended downward rather than upward.
	Now, how could that be?
	Well, years after the fact, I know very much what it is because the plant was in such a state of excitation that being attached that it was already equivalent of human, you know, high human emotional level.
	And it had nothing to do but calm down from where it was.
	So, in other words, you had so shocked that plant, that plant said to itself, what the hell are these?
	And it was in a state of excitation.
	Yes, it was.
	And therefore, this countered what I was looking for, which I didn't see at all.
	is an accurate representation.
	I wasn't counting on consciousness of a plant to be another factor.
	Well, I doubt it was your first guess, Cleve.
	So, to what did you originally attribute the fact that resistance didn't drop?
	Well, it didn't take very long for me to figure something was not going by schedule.
	About one minute along in this initial observation, I saw something that looked very much like the contour Of the galvanic skin response tracing with a human that was telling an important lie on the polygraph.
	Meaning what, Cleave?
	In other words, you saw the resistance, you were measuring resistance, so it did what?
	The tracing would swing upward and then recover.
	Do you have that book in front of you, by the way?
	Are you talking about primary perception?
	Yes, primary perception.
	I have it right here.
	Because on page 24, what I'm trying to describe to you is the galvanic skin response going up toward, it's peaking toward the top.
	Okay, I've got it.
	Alright, so folks, oh my god, I see, I see.
	Now this is showing responses right off the little chart here.
	The figure to the left is the actual tracing from the plant.
	And then the figure to the right is a typical tracing from a human taking a polygraph test.
	Oh my goodness!
	So this changed my priorities and I stopped worrying about how long it took moisture to rise and I said, wow, it's almost as though this plant is showing me human-like reactions.
	And so I changed my priorities and I said, well, what can I do that would be threatening the well-being of a plant similar to the threat to the well-being of a person taking a polygraph test and lying on a A very important question, such as, did you fire that shot causing the death of so-and-so?
	Cleve, how long have you been researching lie detector technology?
	1948.
	That's when I got into the polygraph, about 56 years ago.
	And then, of course, I've been 38 and a half years on the primary perception since 1966.
	This is the way very important discoveries are made by accident, more times than not.
	I can see why you'd absolutely jump out of your skin to see this.
	You know, on the right hand page there, on page 25, then you'll see that around 13 minutes along in this initial tracing, I thought, well, I know what I'll do to threaten the well-being of this plant.
	I'm going to burn the leaf.
	You're going to burn what?
	I'm going to burn that very leaf that I have attached to the polygraph on the Dracaena cane.
	Oh my God.
	And there, you'll see what happened over toward the right-hand side.
	And that was merely the imagery of my burning the leaf.
	It was the only change.
	The building was empty.
	There was no distraction.
	I wasn't touching the equipment.
	I wasn't touching the plant.
	And when that imagery and intent came into my mind... Wait a minute, I want to understand.
	You burned the leaf while it was still attached to the plant?
	I didn't burn it.
	No, that was merely my intention to burn it.
	And when you see that tracing jump right up to the top of the page there, I said, wow, it's almost as though this plant read my mind.
	So, way back, even then, in this initial observation, I could see that something very special was going on.
	It is as though the plant read your mind.
	And at the bottom of the page, you'll see the wild excitation, and I thought, well, gee whiz, I... Alright, folks, for those of you that unfortunately cannot see what we're talking about right now, it's kind of like an earthquake A strip.
	You know, when you see an earthquake, the pen goes up and down, right?
	Well, these are just like that.
	It's a very long period.
	How long on this top graph, Cleave, were you monitoring?
	How much time does that represent?
	The recording goes at six inches a minute, and there are five seconds in between each of those vertical lines that you see there.
	I see.
	And in fact, that particular one is the one I have on the cover of the book also, you'll notice.
	Well, if you just attach a plant up and everything is well and just spiffy, does a plant go through gyrations in a 24-hour period like that, or does it generally stay flat-lined?
	It would stay fairly stable.
	You'll notice leading up until that intention, on my part, to threaten the well-being of the plant, it was fairly calm.
	There are little serrations that you see in the tracing are different than the smooth tracing you would get from a human, because the plant, the cellular discharge from the cells of the plant go directly up into the electrodes.
	And with a human, you have cellular discharge from the cells, but the body is such that it acts like a capacitor.
	It makes a smooth tracing.
	Cleve, is this repeatable?
	The idea of people being able to see this event on the polygraph, hundreds of people have done that.
	Okay, so then let's talk for a second.
	Let's say this is absolute science.
	I mean, it's absolutely real, which is what you're telling me.
	Absolutely.
	Then what do you attribute the spike to?
	I mean, we can bandy around things like, well, the plant read my mind.
	Is that really, really?
	Well, the research that followed that, this is the thing that launched it, there are many, many observations that followed this that really reinforced the idea that the plant was very much into the quality of your thinking, and probably the method of transfer is imagery, not words, because I wasn't speaking out loud, and just the intent in my envisioning in order You know, the idea of burning that plant leaf was picked up by the plant.
	Scientists have been recently learning a lot more about intent in general in the context of consciousness discussions.
	Intentionality.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	And this ties right in.
	If you pretend... In fact, when my partner in the polygraph school came in later that morning, he pretended he was going to burn the plant leaf.
	Nothing would happen.
	You had the intent, and the plant could tell the difference between your pretense and your intent.
	Well, that's pretty interesting.
	You're saying when you did it, you really had intent.
	You didn't actually do it, right?
	No, actually, I really lost interest.
	I thought, well, you know, this planet is pretty special.
	Some very interesting things are going on.
	And all I did was I made a very feeble pass, if you'll notice the bottom of page 25 there.
	Well, what are we talking about here, do you think, Cleave?
	Is this some sort of... What?
	that the matches yes yes yes and i thought well i'm not gonna be able to see anything
	anyway because of the over reactivity so i i i forgot about that
	uh... so i didn't actually uh... go through the but i had i didn't tend to
	originally a couple of it what are we talking about here do you think leave is this
	uh...
	some sort of what is it
	well uh... as as as this as following through from this uh... i went from
	the plants and i got into a whole series of testing of chicken eggs
	and uh... found out how to electrode those and then from there it went to
	bacterial cultures etc Wait, let's stay with chicken eggs for a second.
	What did you discover about chicken eggs?
	Well, I have a Doberman Pinscher in the lab back in New York, and I would feed the dog a naked day.
	I would separate the yoke from the white.
	And this particular day, when I was running a, really it was a long-term monitoring of
	the plant, because in this particular case, I had run hundreds of feet of chart paper
	just trying to see what the plant had to show me rather than to make it do things.
	And then I eventually ended up piping the signal into a meter so I didn't use up so
	It was pretty expensive.
	Sure.
	And the meter was sitting on this little shelf where I was preparing the dog's food, and when I cracked the egg, the meter just went into wild agitation.
	And nothing had happened except my cracking of the egg.
	And so I thought, wow, I'm not going to let this get the best of me.
	I'll figure out a way to electrode that egg.
	Something's going on there.
	In the egg.
	And so I figured out that if I boiled a couple little cubes of sponge in a little saline water and then pinched the moisture out of them and put them on each side of the egg, The moisture would soak through the outer egg shell and hit the inner skin of the egg, and it made an ideal electroding configuration.
	So you now had a connection, a viable connection to an egg.
	Absolutely.
	And I went through hours and hours of recording from eggs.
	In fact, I have some of it in the book.
	And what did you discover with eggs?
	Eggs were tuned in also.
	Reacting the same way a plant would?
	Yes.
	In fact, if you were to pick up one egg and shake it, the other egg that was attached would react.
	Now, this sounds an awful lot like quantum stuff to me.
	Well, it ends up that way.
	Years later, I've been coming to that conclusion, too.
	I think we're into non-locality, because some of the stuff I do is at a great distance between the material I'm testing and the donor of that material.
	Cleve, how can you rule out the experimenter?
	In this?
	Well, you can't.
	In fact, that's a very important aspect.
	The experimenter can really contaminate the experiment.
	Or he could even be the result of the experiment.
	Have you found a way to rule that out?
	Well, the only way that I've been able to do it is to totally automate the experiment and have a programmer that actually executes the whole experiment and I leave the lab at the time it's going on.
	And then what?
	Well, then I can... No, no, I mean in terms of results.
	Well, I can get a real indication of things that are going on in the lab that aren't disturbed by human consciousness.
	Yes, sir, but in terms of the randomness of when the experiment is done, do you still get the same result?
	In fact, you get a better result because you're getting a pure tracing without the distractions of human consciousness.
	So, okay, so that would eliminate the experimenter from the equation, you feel, successfully did that?
	Yes, in fact, The initial experiment that I published before I went public with this thing involved the automated dropping of brine shrimp and simmering water at one end of the lab in several different rooms.
	There were plants attached to each to a separate polygraph.
	Earlier I observed very much that plants were very much attuned to the death of any kind of life form in the lab.
	Insects, things of that nature.
	And so when I designed that experiment, I chose Brian Shrimp to stay out of trouble with the anti-visit sectionist kind of people.
	So is the bottom line of this that everything is apparently or seemingly connected to everything?
	Or is it things in more proximity cleave that are connected to each other?
	Proximity isn't a requirement.
	It's on a need-to-know basis.
	In other words, there's an attunement.
	And once there is a reason for the communication to continue, it continues over vast distances.
	Once there is a reason for the communication, and the reason for the communication could only be, I think, proximity, right?
	The initial proximity.
	The initial proximity.
	Right.
	Okay, then that might explain why twins, for example, separated by continents halfway around the world can identify times where things happen.
	That's sort of a logical explanation.
	Uh-huh.
	But there has to be a preliminary physical near connection, and then there's some other connection that's maintained.
	Right.
	This has been my experience, at least.
	In other words, a lot of my work, you'll see as you progress through the book, it leads up to the testing of human cells in vitro.
	And when the human cells are left in my lab, some of the work, I was getting reaction from the donor over a distance of 300 miles!
	Well, it may be the distance and time.
	I don't suppose... Now, here's one for you, Cleve.
	Have you been able to, in any way, approach measuring the speed of the communication?
	Well, I've come to the conclusion, after really trying to explore this, that there is no time consumed, because now we're getting into quantum physics and non-locality.
	Because non-locality does not involve time consumption or distance limitations.
	Right.
	So, no time.
	In other words, the speed of thought or occurrence or simultaneous quantum whatever is just instantaneous.
	Instantaneously, right.
	And when I've talked to quantum physicists about this, I've said, well, gee whiz, once you start saying that there's any frequency, frequency takes time.
	Yes, indeed.
	And if you start to expand that beyond a local distance and say, well, How long does it take something on the other side of the universe to become aware of something going on here, as far as quantum theory is concerned?
	They said zero seconds, instead of thousands of light years.
	So, I understand that you're not, I guess, a quantum physicist.
	No, not at all.
	But, I would like to understand, I mean, I guess I understand the speed of light, and I understand that we're not supposed to be able to break that speed of light.
	That's the going theory, yes.
	But quantum communication clearly appears to do that.
	Yes, there's a Bell Theorem that I seem to cite a lot in non-locality that talks about atoms that are spun in certain directions, and the direction changes over distance, and one mimics the other, even though the distance is in between.
	That's a concept I just can't grant!
	How about communication is occurring outside of everything physical on this earth and beyond?
	Well, you know, I don't grasp it either.
	I was so happy that the quantum physicists came along to give me some support.
	Because, you know, people would ask me, would you please define this communication?
	And I'd say, whoa, as long as I've been doing the research in this field, the only way I've stayed out of trouble is not to try to explain the nature of the communication as far as the scientific community is concerned.
	I said, I can give you Hundreds of high-quality observations, but once I try to give you a faulty explanation, then you throw out my good observations.
	Well, you're absolutely cautious and correct to do that, and that's exactly what they would do, because there's no good answer to that right now, is there?
	Right.
	Well, when you get into quantum physics, they seem to have delved into it a good bit, but even among physicists, there's lots of discussion and conflict sometimes.
	Well, that's because it has to cut right across everything we know about physics and say there's something about everything we know that's totally wrong at some level.
	At the quantum level, maybe.
	Well, this is one of the problems.
	You have whole bodies of information that is threatened by some of these new concepts.
	You know, it's really strange.
	It's very hard to get some of these people to change their story once they've written books and articles and so forth.
	Well, Cleve, the skeptics who are defending the status quo scientifically must say something to explain this.
	What do they say?
	You're talking about the protectors of the faith?
	Yes, predictors.
	Well, they just, you know, they don't go to the trouble to try to explain anything.
	In fact, they don't go to the trouble to look for themselves to see if something is going on.
	Hold it on that note.
	We'll be right back.
	Strawberries, cherries, and an angel's kiss in spring.
	From the high desert in the middle of the night, I'm Art Bell.
	And this is Coast to Coast AM.
	Stay right where you are.
	I walk in town on silver spurs, the jingle too.
	you A song that I had only sang to just a few.
	She saw my silver spurs...
	...and her silver spurs.
	I can't take another heartache.
	Though you say you're my friend, I'm in my wits end.
	You say your love is modified, but that don't coincide.
	Well, the things that you do, and when I ask you to deny it.
	You say you gotta be cruel to be kind, in the right measure.
	Cruel to be kind, it's a very good sign.
	Cruel to be kind, means that I love you, baby.
	You gotta be cruel, you gotta be cruel to love me kind.
	To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
	The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
	To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll free at 800-825-5033.
	From west of the Rockies, call Art at 800-618-8255.
	International callers may reach Art Bell by calling your in-country Sprint Access number,
	pressing option 5, and dialing toll free 800-893-0903.
	From coast to coast, and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	You know, it seems the future of the world is very quantum indeed.
	Deepak Chopra, author of How to Know God, wrote, Cleve Baxter's research has profound implications for humanity and its future evolution.
	Gene Houston, PhD, said Cleve Baxter's work is essential reading for all those who would delve more deeply into the nature of reality.
	We'll be right back.
	Cleve, you know, the average modern American When they hear the Native Americans say they can talk to trees and communicate with Mother Earth in ways that we don't understand, they generally go, yeah, right.
	You know, that kind of attitude.
	They just sort of, sure.
	But doesn't a lot of what your research seems to show here indicate that their beliefs hold some water?
	Absolutely.
	I learned to have a lot of respect for The beliefs I only heard about second-hand before I got into this kind of research.
	Right, right.
	Have you ever heard of the book called The Field by Lynne McTaggart?
	I have, yes.
	This is a wonderful book for anyone that wants it.
	Some of the things we were trying to get to the bottom of.
	The subtitle is A Quest for the Secret Force of the Universe.
	And she gets into all kinds of things with the quantum physicists and so forth.
	Well, I'm trying to shoot holes.
	I mean, your work is incredible, but in a way I'm trying to shoot holes in it, because if it's real, then it has such incredible significance that, you know, all of the world's science should be all over it.
	So that's why I asked you about the skeptics, Cleve.
	There must be some major way they knock all this down.
	Or is there not?
	Well, they'll use excuses like repeatability.
	And of course, as far as current scientific method is concerned, it's sort of built on the idea of designing an experiment and getting a lot of repetitions and accumulating data.
	But it is repeatable, isn't it?
	Well, to see the phenomenon reacting to different spontaneous reactions is very repeatable.
	But spontaneity is very, very important because once you have done something once, the second and third time, it doesn't disturb the plant.
	And so when you design an experiment and you expect to get repeatability on the very same event... But wait a minute, the implication of that is the plant learns.
	Absolutely.
	Nothing's going to hurt it and it doesn't react anymore.
	And the current researchers that are somewhat critical I don't understand this.
	They don't realize that spontaneity and repeatability are not compatible.
	Yeah, I'm having a hard time grasping all of this, too.
	So once the plant has learned that really it is not going to be harmed by this particular action, then you've got to do something else to cause it.
	But within those confines, it's totally repeatable.
	Yes, it is.
	Or you can bring in different plants, although it would take a long time to do it, and only use the plant just for one aspect of the experiment.
	But the Russians have done, they did a great job of replicating the experiment way back in 1972, and I didn't know about it until some of the translations came back.
	Oh, no kidding?
	And Chris Bird and Peter Tompkins wrote The Secret Life of Plants book, and Chris Bird also did Russian translations, but some of the material that was translated, I found that Well, there was an article called Flower Recall.
	When that got translated, I saw that they were doing very sophisticated work in replicating my experiment, and I went over to Prague in 1973.
	There was an international conference on psychotronics, the first international conference, and I was chairman of the plant-animal-human communication section.
	I couldn't understand why these Russian scientists were all coming up and wanting their pictures taken with me.
	I don't get that kind of attention back here.
	And it turns out that they were very well aware of the Russian replication of this work.
	I wonder what the Russians were doing with the information.
	Well, I don't know beyond the very idea of just the pure scientific aspect of it.
	I guess it's anyone's guess, but they were doing something that They were using hypnosis in a very good hypnotic subject in order to engender emotionality in the subject in order for the plant to react to it.
	This has been a very difficult thing to do ordinarily.
	That's fascinating.
	Back in my counterintelligence days in the Central Intelligence Agency, my big chase around the world practically was to find out What a spooky secret interrogation method the Russians were using.
	I had a team that could go anywhere to study this.
	Right.
	And it's rather ironic that the thing I was afraid they were using is some kind of hypnosis and post-hypnotic suggestion in order to create espionage contacts in foreign countries.
	And it turns out that the very thing that made their replication of my experiment so successful was hypnosis.
	Hypnosis. Why hypnosis? Did they manage to engender some sort of great fear in the person?
	By suggestion you can, by mere suggestion, you can create an emotional surge in the person
	by bringing up something that they're very, very, very terrorized of.
	And the power of suggestion that you have available to you when using hypnosis
	allows you to turn this on and off almost like a faucet.
	Well, the communication part of it, which is instantaneous through time and space, is hard enough to buy.
	But now we're getting down to, I mean after all, Cleve, a plant doesn't have a brain.
	And we're talking about memory of an event.
	That plant learned and then didn't react the same way a second time.
	So, what are we talking about here?
	It makes you wonder a little bit about the completeness of our knowledge of where memory is with the human.
	Well, yes, doesn't it?
	There have been these intriguing experiments, of course, Cleve, where they've taken the heart and lungs from one donor and put them in somebody else who then picked up their habits and wants and desires.
	Right, I've read about that.
	And so then one might imagine some memory is at a cellular level, I guess?
	Well, at least that.
	And also remote viewing may get into this too.
	It may, I know.
	I was invited to their first international conference on remote viewing to give a talk.
	Oh really?
	Oh yeah, well I'm the one that got Ingo Swann and Hal Puthoff together that started all that stuff at Stanford Research Institute.
	Oh my goodness.
	Honestly, I didn't know that.
	I've interviewed most of the people in this field.
	This has been, for me, one of the more exciting, intriguing things of my whole life, the realization of this.
	A non-locality and also mass intent.
	I've done some pretty freaky experiments myself with the audience cleave over the years.
	Pretty strange experiments.
	Inexplicable experiments, weather control, that kind of stuff.
	Right.
	And I've got this feeling that it all meshes together.
	That there's this other side, this quantum other side of things that we don't yet understand.
	And that's where most of this fits in, including remote viewing.
	Right.
	You agree with that?
	Yes, I do.
	In fact, you know, back when I was still going to college, it was in my first and second year of college, I was very deeply involved in hypnosis.
	In the book, my one and only book, by the way, I'm not a book writer, but particularly this one, it was important.
	In the introduction, I sort of go through, it's autobiographical, but it was Delving into hypnosis very, very much into what would be equivalent of my senior year, junior and senior year of high school.
	I was in prep school at the time and then also in college.
	I had people doing things that would be very similar to remote viewing back then.
	I would say that even though you're sitting in this chair and you're in a deep, deep sleep, I want you to make a trip and I'm going to guide you.
	I would guide them to a different location on the campus and have them explain to me what was going on there.
	And what did you conclude from that experiment?
	Well, I'll tell you, I was getting some results.
	You know, it wasn't a formal experiment, but it was very high-quality observations.
	You've done all kinds of things with all kinds of things.
	Plants, eggs, what else?
	Well, the human cells.
	It really worked up to, finally, the experiment that we hope to do next now will involve the Simultaneous testing of the conventional polygraph parameters, the respiration and the galvanic skin response and the cardiovascular recording along with EEG simultaneously and then also along with that another tracing that is measuring the in vitro cells from that same subject as the hard wire contacts hooked up.
	What do you think might happen?
	Well, I pretty much know what's going to happen.
	In fact, toward the end of the book, I get into the ultimate thing with the human cell testing.
	I've done an awful lot of work testing leukocytes from the human being that we collect by using a little saline solution, having the person munch on the solution, and that brings out white cells, oral leukocytes, through the roof of the mouth, and we centrifuge that.
	Pipe that off the concentrated cells and put electrodes in them.
	Gold wire electrodes.
	And I've done... In fact, there was a book, Secret Life of Your Cells, it was based on that work.
	It was published about my work.
	No, but I mean, describe to me how you expect the experiment to unfold.
	Well, now, the ultimate in that, at the HeartMath Institute, we did some work that produced the final tracings in the last portion of the book, where we just took A sample of human blood, and put two gold wire electrodes in that sample of blood.
	Five milliliters of blood.
	Placed it right into standard EEG equipment.
	Yes.
	And it got beautiful tracings that seemed to reflect the emotionality of the donor.
	Even though the donor was, you know, remotely located on the other side of the room.
	Wow.
	That's a wow.
	For sure.
	Are you getting a lot of money for your research?
	No.
	No?
	And again, because of the school that I conduct, teaching police officers primarily, how to conduct polygraph tests, that is the thing that has allowed me to sort of struggle along.
	I've maintained a very well-equipped lab since 1977, the old Drug Enforcement Agency lab here in San Diego.
	Well, since you've been doing this work so long, I can't resist.
	Is it or is it not possible for somebody who knows what they're doing to beat a polygraph exam with a good examiner?
	Well, I would say if you had a competent examiner using modern technique and the issue was strong enough, not just trivia, that I would say you could not do it.
	Now, the technique that I've devised and introduced to the polygraph field is the one that is the standard that is used and favored.
	By the Department of Defense, the Polygraph Institute, and the military and the FBI.
	That's quite something.
	And as much as I've had to do with developing that, I have no feeling that I could beat the polygraph if I had done something that was a rather serious issue.
	So you're saying, yes, it would depend on the seriousness or importance of the issue at question.
	So if it was a small, kind of insignificant thing you might tell a white lie about?
	Oh, I think you could mess around there and create confusion, at least for the polygraph examiner.
	We don't say because a person sits down to a polygraph to take a test that automatically one situation is as good as another.
	In fact, we have a way that we systematically evaluate how good our case information is, is one factor.
	The strength of issue, if there's punishment involved, if the polygraph examination leads the investigators to something submissible in court, and the distinctness of issue, if they did it, do they know they did it?
	So we have a little five position scale.
	We apply against each of those factors.
	And a good polygraph situation is one that rates very high in all of those.
	Good case information, strength of issue, distinctness of issue.
	So when you go to the other end of the scale on trivia, you don't have those factors satisfied.
	Why will the courts not yet allow it as evidence?
	Well, I've testified over 50 times in court.
	Oh.
	But I mean, polygraph results generally are not allowed, are they?
	That's what I'm saying.
	I've testified on the results of polygraph that many times.
	Well, how do you do that if it's not allowed?
	Well, this has been over a lot of years.
	I understand, but still, if it's not admissible in courts, how do they get you in on the stand?
	That isn't an accurate statement in blanket form.
	In other words, it depends on the state.
	It depends on, for instance, juvenile courts.
	It's been easier for me to testify in.
	Oh, no kidding?
	And about half of my work has been done for the prosecution, maybe half for the defense.
	Very interesting.
	Federal and state courts.
	So juveniles not having the same rights as full adults?
	Well, I'm not sure.
	I think they're just a little more liberal in allowing it in.
	For instance, a judge has to make a decision that needs help.
	A lot of times, judges have even ordered polygraph tests, pre-sentencing polygraph examinations.
	So you can't just say it's kept out.
	You know, most of the good that's done by polygraph is done at the level of the district attorney level.
	In other words, where they have had the suspect examined to see if they should even file charges.
	And there's extensive use of that throughout the entire country.
	How frequently might a prosecutor who uses polygraph information dismiss charges or proceed based on the outcome of I would estimate quite often just talking to the people that come from the various departments.
	Because they trust the polygraph, they know it's had good success in the past, and they don't spend a lot of investigative time and money and so forth on a subject that, you know, passes the polygraph test.
	Well, is there a kind of individual, Cleve, and I've heard this from a lot of people over the years, you know, the kind of individual who virtually, virtually believes their own lies.
	I know that's tough to grasp, but I'm told there are people who are that way.
	Is that the kind of person who... If a person truly believes the lie they're telling, there's no fear of detection.
	Therefore, the polygraph is not going to be effective in catching them.
	Well, I think there are more habitual liars than there are psychopathic liars.
	of people are there well i think they're more habitual are some of our
	psychopathic hackers but but but but a psychopathic liar yeah i
	it is pretty hard to find who they are going to do it and research
	on you will i guess that's true isn't it hurricane uh...
	Advertisement paper for psychopathic liars.
	We've got some testing we'd like to do on you.
	They don't really come forward.
	I've jokingly said, well, we have to get a psychopathic polygraph examiner to run them.
	Anyway, Cleve, I'm so fascinated by all of this.
	I really am.
	Does it mean... I mean, should we be concluding that plants really do think, or should we, even if we accept this experimentation as real, should we still relegate it to a very, very low, insignificant level of operation at the cosmic level?
	I mean, in other words, listening to Cleve long enough, you know you're going to not even break open an egg and eat breakfast anymore, right?
	Because it's going to scream!
	Well, obviously there's memory, because plants do adapt, so there has to be an equivalent of memory so that they don't react additionally.
	Some kind of memory.
	And there's discrimination.
	You can hook up several plants simultaneously and focus on only one of the three, and that's the only one that reacts.
	There are a number of things that are rather interesting that are characteristics ordinarily one would not attribute to a plant.
	You wouldn't go so far as to say sentience of any sort, would you?
	Oh, sure I would.
	Oh, you would?
	Absolutely.
	Oh, sentient plants.
	Sentience is a key word in my research.
	Well, sure it is.
	Boy, that's a strong word to apply to a plant.
	And so, would it go as far as To say that a plant might like one person and then hate another person?
	Well, I'm not sure about the hate, but... Strong words.
	There have been, for instance, a number of experiments, in fact, that people could do even without instrumentation.
	They can take three plants, this has been done with bean plants primarily, And have three samples of those plants, and they can lavish one sample with all kinds of love and positive thoughts.
	They can ignore the middle, and they can, you know, just start mentally beat up, not touch it in any way, but have all kinds of negative thoughts, not wishing it well at all.
	There's a vast difference in the growth rate of these over a period of time.
	I hope your stems rot and your leaves turn brown.
	That kind of stuff, you mean?
	Yeah, in fact, there was a Reverend Franklin Blower that wrote a book once on the power of prayer on plants.
	It wasn't just the prayer that did it, but it was the attention.
	In fact, there was a documentary that I participated in, a NOVA show.
	It was called The Green Machine.
	They put about 20 minutes on my research, but then they also had his segment in there and they were very paranoid about any cheating so they had a big aquarium that was closed where no one could breathe on the plants and so forth and so on and they each had the same attention and the only thing that was different that he sat outside this aquarium and again he went through this process of the back of his hand to the one plant you know just mentally speaking not touching it
	And ignoring the middle one, and casting love and affection toward the other.
	And the results?
	There was a vast difference.
	This was all very well controlled and showed on the TV show.
	All right, hold tight, Cleve.
	We'll be right back.
	Cleve Baxter is my guest from the high desert.
	This is Coast to Coast AM, and I'm Art Bell.
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	Cleet Baxter is really the father of this research into...
	The fact that plants react.
	Plants apparently have a memory.
	Plants apparently communicate the way many things do, instantly, across any distance you can fathom.
	And all of this is difficult, I know, to fathom, but these experiments have been done and then repeated and done again.
	and if it's true and I don't see how you can come to any other conclusion although we'll try but if it's true
	then that changes everything the
	the the
	alright once again Cleve Baxter Cleave, welcome back.
	Thank you.
	Before we leave the whole lie detector area, if we even do, we've met people on the show, you know, people have made claims about things they've seen and, you know, stuff like that and, for example, some of them have failed or their first lie detector test has been declared to be inconclusive.
	So, if generally our reactions are, I don't know, I guess I'm asking, can we sit in a place all hooked up and manufacture a series of
	reactions in our head that although not showing physically have the needles
	jumping all over the the place to the point where you know a readable reaction
	is not possible well i'll tell you that people have tried the biofeedback
	uh... and that doesn't work very well because there's a there's a time
	delay uh... it before they can actually uh... create any changes
	in the rate of the uh...
	of the harder to you know but pressure right uh... and you know it can be
	the entire theory of the the polygraph technique that i've introduced into the
	field involves a uh... a focusing of psychological center or prioritizing
	because within the structure of the polygraph test we actually build in
	the question where they will be telling a minor lie nice and
	The only person that has the luxury to focus on that, because these involve character evaluation type tests, questions that they would like to look good on, if that is,
	they're not lying to the big one.
	If they're telling the truth to the serious question, like, did you fire that shot causing
	death and so-and-so, and then we ask the question about, during the first 18 years of your life,
	did you ever hurt somebody who truly loved and trusted you, they will focus on, if they're
	lying to that big question, they'll focus on that and float right through the small
	lie.
	On the other hand, if they're telling the truth to the serious question, they will float
	through that and hit on this minor lie because they want to look good character-wise.
	And And so this is the whole basis of the numerical evaluation of polygraph charts.
	If they have the luxury to focus on these small, innocuous attempts at deception, that gives them plus points.
	On the other hand, if they show a strong reaction to the relevant question, that gives them minus points.
	And then we have numerical cut-offs, etc., that allow us to know when we have Conclusive deception, or truth, or inconclusive in between, if it doesn't make either one of the cut-offs.
	Rick in Gainesville, Florida asks, hey Art, ask what he thinks of Kirlian photography.
	In Forreste's school, his book was considered bogus by the faculty.
	Any formal concurrence in respected journals at all?
	Sentience in plans?
	He's kind of stretching the definition.
	Was the second item you mentioned about Kirlian photography or about my study?
	Well, that was the first one, actually.
	In other words, that, for example, is pretty controversial, right?
	Well, Kirlian photography, I've had people in my lab that have attempted that, where they cut out part of the plant and then they use a kind of Tesla coil arrangement where it sparks and shows up.
	And I believe it was Thelma Moss in Los Angeles that did a lot of work on that.
	And I think the thing they had to be careful of is there wasn't some kind of contamination from where the whole leaf did rest on a plate.
	So, I'm not an expert in that, but I've always showed interest in it.
	Alright, and his final complaint was about sentience.
	That is a very strong word, sentience and plants.
	You did jump to that word and said, no, it's right.
	No, in fact, we almost had that as a subtitle for the book, Biocommunication with Plants, Living Foods, and Human Cells.
	We were going to use the word sentient and we were not that sure it would be so meaningful to a lot of people.
	Because it is a profound word, but we certainly evaluated it carefully and thought it was safe to use.
	So a lot of people you feel might have passed it by because they didn't know what sentience is?
	They may not clearly understand what sentience is.
	Well, that's worth part of the show all by itself, but we won't do that.
	Alright, so there's a picture on the website, our website, of these two sets of plants, which is incredibly striking.
	And, you know, the Fate magazine stuff, showing the photograph of one plant having, what is it?
	Was this the work of Dorothy Retallick on music and plants?
	Yes, uh-huh.
	I heard that was on your website.
	It is, and one of these plants is being, you know, just nice classical music, and the other one has acid rock.
	And the one with acid rock, the plants are bent over, they're brown, they're dying, they're in severe plant distress.
	Well, you know, Dorothy Retallick that started all this music and plants was a friend of mine.
	She passed away several years ago.
	In fact, I have an unpublished book of hers, a manuscript.
	Really?
	A second book.
	Really?
	My only complaint with her is that they really had to double-blind the experiment to where the consciousness of the researcher didn't contaminate the experiment.
	If you have a bunch of people running that experiment that hate classical music, it may not be the music that bothers the plant.
	It may be the negative attitude of the experimenter.
	Well, it could be.
	It could be.
	So they did not have those full... She never did have a chance to do a follow-up of that before she passed away.
	I mean, that would be my only criticism, but she was playing Well, classical music, I guess it would be sitar and so forth, some of the instruments that were more classical.
	Well, what do you believe?
	I mean, if the experiment was done in an absolutely pristine manner, would you think we would still get these results?
	I don't know.
	These would have to be sound chambers that were, you know, Where the experimenter didn't even know the kind of music that was being played at the time.
	It would have to be run by a programmer and automated.
	That would be the only way you'd get to the bottom of that.
	All right.
	All right.
	Now we're going to stumble into one that just blows me away.
	Yogurt.
	Yogurt bacteria.
	Is yogurt bacteria honestly sentient?
	It says here it can prioritize.
	Now, this is really getting down the street, Cleve.
	Yogurt bacteria.
	The yogurt bacteria, I found sort of accidentally back in New York when I worked late at night and a lot of times I'd forget to eat dinner the night before and didn't want to go out too early the next morning in the Times Square area, I had a bunch of yogurt containers with yogurt in the refrigerator in the lab.
	And this particular time when I had a cone generator hooked to a plant just doing long-term monitoring, Because again, to save the chart paper and not always having to be looking at the meter.
	Sure.
	And I took a container of yogurt out and I stuck the spoon to the bottom of the yogurt to stir up the strawberry jam.
	Yes.
	And the tone generator just went crazy in the next room.
	So this told me that something was going on and the only thing that had changed was I started to stir the jam from the bottom of the yogurt up.
	And I had no idea at that time that there were live, living bacteria in yogurt.
	There are two friendly kinds of bacteria.
	There are.
	In commercial yogurt.
	Oh, yes.
	And so I got my books out on dairy, bacteriology, and so forth, and I figured, well, there's got to be a way that I can electrode the yogurt.
	Unless I'm wrong, Cleve, I believe that when a doctor finishes giving you a regime of very strong antibiotics of some sort, That they then recommend many times that you eat yogurt to re-colonize the important bacteria in your stomach.
	That's interesting, you know, because that means that the bacteria has a capability of transmuting into another form of bacteria.
	Apparently so, yeah.
	I've heard that also, because when you're on antibiotic, that's going to kill the yogurt, because that is live bacteria.
	Exactly.
	But anyway, when I heard this, I figured out a way to To fill a little five milliliter test tube with the yogurt using a little stem and filling from the bottom up and then putting the gold wire electrodes in the yogurt.
	Yes.
	And I've done, I really, I've got hundreds of hours of monitoring where everyone that would visit the lab, I would use the sample of yogurt to monitor the events going on in the area.
	Then I would use split screen technology where I'd have one camera on the audience or the group that was visiting.
	And the other camera over the chart drive.
	Cleve, one quick question.
	Yes?
	Did your friends and family ever think that you were losing your mind?
	I'm not sure.
	I must have passed away before they had a chance to know that.
	I have one living relative, an 85-year-old sister.
	What's Cleve doing now?
	Well, he's testing the reaction and prioritization of some yogurt we've got here.
	Well, yogurt is a fantastic, sensitive monitor of human consciousness.
	That I am very certain of.
	And when two people are debating with each other, when one has the idea of something they want to say to score against the other, just the imagery coming to the mind will create the reaction and the words coming out from the person after.
	So then, what CBS should do from now on, next presidential debate in fact, would be to have a monitor and some yogurt.
	And just while the debate's going on, just monitor the yogurt.
	Let the yogurt decide.
	That would be very interesting.
	The yogurt would at least show that we won't get that involved in the politics.
	All my yogurt is non-political.
	Prioritize.
	Let's get that out of the way.
	What do you mean by that?
	Well, prioritizing is the equivalent of the focus of psychological set with humans.
	In other words, if one thing is going on that's more important, the cells will focus on that at the expense of the other, where they ordinarily would show to the other.
	I have an example in the book on that, where I had the American Polygraph Association was visiting San Diego, and I hosted a visit To my lab, where several hundred of them were crowded in this lab here in San Diego.
	I thought, well, this is going to be just totally chaotic, because I always felt that I needed to have a very controlled laboratory environment for something to show.
	But before they got so crowded that I couldn't even move around the lab, I balanced in a test tube of yogurt.
	Just let it run, and it showed that at least there were some squiggles and wiggles on the tracing that was tied into something I had hooked up.
	And I thought, well, I wonder if I can get some kind of a reaction out of this.
	If I take the syringe that I used to fill this test tube still had some yogurt in it, and I was about 15 feet away from the electrode sample, and I squirted some of the balance of that yogurt from the from the syringe into a mixed drink.
	It was a vodka and tonic.
	There was just a huge reaction from the electrode sample.
	This again showed that despite the chaos that was going on with all of the polygraph examiners, their wives and kids that were visiting the lab, that the yogurt was still able to tune in to another sample that came from the same source.
	When something happened to that other sample showed reaction at a distance.
	Oh my God, I've been dumped in a drink!
	Yeah, so this is what I call prioritizing.
	Well, no, I see what you mean, though, and I see what the control was there.
	That's really, really interesting.
	Cleve, what should... I mean, if all of this is true, then...
	What does it mean in terms of how we should prioritize or treat our environment, meaning plants and animals and all things around us, that we didn't think had the kind of connection that you're saying things do have?
	Well, you know, I've always been interested in the Gaia hypothesis.
	Are you familiar with that?
	Go ahead through it.
	And James Lovelock in England is the one that sort of fosters that, and Lynn Margolis over here.
	And Lynn Margolis was married to Carl Sagan for about, I guess, ten years, which I have to give her a lot of credit.
	For staying with him for ten years?
	Yes!
	But anyway, the Gaia Hypothesis related to the world being one great big living entity, and it had self-regulating capabilities.
	And of course it had to have communication to have that kind of self-regulation.
	And so I believe, again, I believe very much in that concept.
	And I think we have to be far more careful in how we handle the environment.
	This business of somebody saying, well, if you cut down the trees, you don't have to worry about forest fires and that kind of stuff.
	So then we would have to really modify the way we think.
	Let me go even a little further.
	Now you've done plants.
	What about What we think of is inanimate objects.
	If, I don't know, you know, my wood desk, other things around us that are made up in a certain molecular way, maybe it's crazy, but it's not that much crazier than it is about plants.
	No, I don't think it is.
	Really, I think that once we were to find a way to be able to properly electrode these so-called inanimate, that we would see that there is something going on there.
	I've been able to come to that is to take some filings of wood and even metal and so forth and sprinkle them into some agar agar compound.
	And then agar agar or agar agar, whichever you want to call it, will firm up as a gel.
	And by taking a plug of that agar agar and put electrodes on each side, I'm able to get little wiggly lines showing that something is coming out of that, but I don't get the real meaningful free-flowing tracings that I get when I'm hooking up biological material.
	Let me throw this one at you, Cleve.
	Right now, there are a lot of people concerned about Mount St.
	Helens.
	You know, a volcano's a big deal.
	Right.
	And it has the potential to, oh, I don't know, if it goes off the wrong way, wipe out a lot of land and trees and people and everything around it.
	Just kaboom.
	It did that once.
	It sure did.
	Now, I'm not saying it's going to do it again, but I would think, you know, I'm talking to friends who have animals, like dogs in the area, behaving very, very, very strangely in that area right now.
	And I wonder if something as big from our Earth as a volcanic eruption with all the pressures going on under the Earth, well, gee, you would think that if you had electrodes hooked up to some plants and trees in the area, they'd just be going berserko.
	I would be very interested in having an opportunity to do that, like the big redwoods and so forth up in California.
	Absolutely!
	I know that I think this ties in a little bit to some of the material that is done by Rupert Sheldrake.
	I know you had him on your show.
	You betcha.
	And I think that I'm more informed of his research than perhaps he was of mine, so I'm not sure.
	I'm not complaining, but he didn't show too much insight when it came up.
	Well, he should indeed be reading about it.
	Yes.
	So I admire his work, though.
	With the dog, you know, the dog going to the door when the owner decided to come home from wherever the owner was.
	It's absolutely all connected, Cleve.
	That's fascinating.
	It's all connected.
	We're talking about the same thing.
	Absolutely.
	In all these different areas.
	There's no question about it.
	And I would think that you two researchers would get together and have a lot to share.
	Well, you know, I'm going over to London this Thursday, in fact.
	There's a, they call it the Living the Field Conference 2004.
	Oh?
	and uh... they're going to be a bunch of people at the ed mitchell's going to be
	over there in the astronaut only has a doctor raymond uh...
	moody you know who is the
	uh... that you i'm not sure you get some of the line all of all of
	them and then and prepared and others
	and recruiters that and uh... you is uh... there are a whole bunch of people
	are going to be over there and uh...
	they have is on their little promotion thing they have living the field
	conference two thousand four a once in a lifetime chance to see the icons of
	consciousness research.
	I'm thrilled!
	That's why I put in such good company!
	Well, you are an icon, and they are icons, indeed, of consciousness research, which I think someday will be known to be the most powerful force in the universe.
	Someday.
	Mark my words.
	By the time they discover it, I'll be long gone.
	But mark them anyway.
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	And it was sort of mixed up with something I said about the volcano.
	From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	Every now and then Ramona hits me with a real zinger and she sure did this time.
	And it was sort of mixed up with something I said about the volcano.
	In a moment.
	Did you know that in the last rather minor eruption of Mount St.
	Helens, a lot of the seismographic equipment, sensors and such, at the top got blown to smithereens, so they're now gone.
	And staying with that theme for a second, my wife said during the break, you know, what if you were monitoring all the redwoods all the way around Mount St.
	Helens?
	I wonder if the redwoods, number one, would act like a seismograph, and number two, If the trees, for example, might understand which side of the mountain was going to blow out?
	This is really a good thought, because my aim is just to be able to electrode one of those redwoods, but once we worked out the technology and we had it telemetered back to a central location, and we had different trees located at various locations, I think That could turn out to be very interesting.
	Because, you know, those trees, some of them are, what, hundreds and hundreds of years old.
	Absolutely.
	They're a lot smarter than probably most of the humans.
	Well, let's ask Cleve, do you believe that the trees, if you had an arrangement, I mean, I'm asking you to guess now, not to hypothesize, but that you would be able to, in the end, find out that you had detected from the trees an understanding of which side was about to blow.
	Well, I would certainly think it's possible.
	As far out as some of my stuff seems, that's closer in.
	It is.
	And you think a tree on the side of a volcano would have a very big investment in what's about to happen.
	You know, major things, rumblings under the earth, constant earthquakes and all this.
	I mean, that's big time.
	Listen, there were acres of trees flattened by that last eruption.
	Yes.
	Yes, so perhaps some setups would be valuable.
	I'm surprised USGS hasn't contacted you.
	I think they go to their scientific advisors and they don't get any further than that when they're interested in this.
	Cleveland, let's say somebody at home right now, and there are a lot of technical types of people who listen to this program.
	Right.
	And I'm kind of techie myself.
	What instruments Could we use at home, and I don't mean the average person, but somebody with some test instruments, you know, voltometers and scopes or whatever they might have lying around.
	A lot of people have that kind of stuff.
	Could they do something?
	If so, what do they do?
	How do they do it?
	Well, one of the things I might mention, people can get quite a bit of information if they tap into our website, primaryperception.com.
	I think that's listed in your indexing of the show.
	That's right.
	We have a link to it for now.
	Right.
	But that will be gone.
	So it's primaryperception.com.
	And it's a very active website.
	And Francie Prowse, my editor and publisher of the book, Primary Perception, does a lot of work on that.
	She has a newsletter and all kinds of bioweb organizations and so forth.
	Somebody who is really interested can get more involved.
	That said, outline an experiment I could try at home.
	Well, again, your initial question was about the instrumentation, and this is the problem.
	It's so frustrating because we get so many inquiries saying, how can I get a hold of instrumentation?
	You know, any good EEG type equipment will show this, but again, who has EEG type equipment?
	Right, exactly.
	Strangely enough, when I graduated from the galvanic skin response testing of plants, to what the Russians did right away in replicating my work, they went right to EEG type equipment.
	Now the difference between this, one is supposed to measure resistance, And the EEG equipment does a high degree of magnification
	of very subtle signals that come out of the plant.
	And the Scientology people have the so-called E-meter.
	Well that E-meter is a very sensitive indicator if you want to get some early work by hooking
	that to each side of a leaf.
	What is that technically?
	It's a galvanic skin response, a very sensitive galvanic skin response.
	But basically it's measuring resistance, right?
	Well, supposedly measuring resistance, yes.
	I challenge a little bit the basic concept of resistance, because if you had a meter and you were trying to figure out the resistance in the circuit, you wouldn't want any of the sources of electricity in the pathway, other than what you're sending through.
	And yet when you're measuring plants or even humans, while there are thousands of sources of electricity, every cell has the capability of discharging electricity.
	So I think that the GSR probably is accidentally picking up the cellular discharge, and when that is added to whatever is being placed through, the signal you're placing through ordinarily to measure resistance, it only appears that there's a drop in resistance.
	It really could be also that it's picking up electrical charge on the way.
	So to properly do this requires an EEG?
	Well, an EEG would be the very best way to handle it, yes.
	But is there any little experiment?
	Somebody with a volt-o-meter?
	Is there some way at home?
	Well, when you talk about an o-meter, you're not getting the kind of sensitivity you would need to do this, because these are Very, very.
	It's a high magnification of very, very subtle signals.
	Now, most of the work is microvolt range.
	Got it.
	And with eggs, though, the signals are actually millivolt range.
	Are they really?
	Yes.
	Oh, now that's intriguing.
	Right there.
	Higher with eggs.
	Why?
	Well, I don't know.
	It's a pretty powerful signal.
	When you look in the Primary Perception book, you'll see some samples of when I first hooked up eggs, there's all kinds of cyclic activity going on inside the egg.
	aside from the primary perception capability.
	Okay, so when we make our breakfast in the morning, when we crack the egg into the bowl or into the pan,
	is it screaming?
	Well, you know, my experience has been when somehow you're sort of threatening the well-being, in this case, of the
	egg, if you think in terms, as you do, if you think,
	well, I'm going to break this egg, I think the egg goes into a protective stance.
	It's very similar to a state of shock.
	But when you do it without thinking and without any pre-imaging of what you're going to do... Then it never knows what's coming.
	Yeah.
	One of the experiments that I did, In fact, I even have pictures of it in the charts in the book.
	One time I'd forgotten to eat dinner the night before, and it was too early to go out in Times Square, and so I had all of these eggs on hand that I was doing research with, and I thought, I'm not going to starve to death with all these eggs.
	So I said, but I've got to do a scientific experiment as part of it.
	So one of the eggs was electroded.
	uh... to the uh... recording equipment yes and it was uh...
	the egg was placed in a lead shielded box and so forth to all the precautions
	and that was egg number one egg number two and three
	uh... i dropped into a pan of uh... uh... boiling water on the hot plate in the lab
	and uh...
	you can see that when i dropped the uh... those uh... two eggs in about three
	seconds apart uh... you can see the large reactions on the chart that was
	being made at the time from the other egg that was not being in any way directly
	disturbed.
	So there was egg empathy?
	Oh yes!
	One of the things I think that with people that have been taught to say blessings before consuming foods, I think that this is... Well, isn't that just scaring the food?
	Well, it's not scaring the food, it's notifying the food and allowing it to go into this defensive posture to where it doesn't feel the pain.
	I think that's the basis, very likely, of saying blessings.
	But still, it's the long kiss goodbye.
	I mean, it's notification that, hey, jig is up.
	Yes, absolutely.
	So I think that degree of insensitivity is You know, under the bacteria section in the book, I have an example of bacteria communicating with another kind of bacteria.
	And this was done at my first lab location here in San Diego.
	It involved a long, one-story wooden building.
	And in order not to have to keep running up to the front of the building where I had the chart recording equipment, I put pit switches down, one in each room, all the way down the length of this complex of rooms.
	And what I would do is push the switch when I was doing various things, and that would automatically mark the chart up in the front of my lap.
	Right.
	And when I did this, and then I started to transfer the information about what was going on when I hit the switch, I found some amazing things.
	I had a Siamese cat at the time that got hooked on chicken, and it wouldn't eat anything else, at least the cat had convinced me that it wouldn't eat anything else.
	Oh no, it can happen.
	My partner's wife would roast a chicken and send in the chicken with my partner in the polygraph school and I'd pull off a little of this roasted chicken each day to feed the cat and I would put it under a heating lamp.
	When I disturbed, after the chicken carcass got pretty old after being in the refrigerator a number of days, peeling off some of the chicken each day, there was a bacterial build-up on the chicken, and I was disturbing this bacteria when I pulled chunks of it off, and the yogurt that was being tested and other kinds of bacteria up in the front room was showing this very, very dramatically.
	The charts on that are in the book.
	Then you'll see that when I put the, after I got done disturbing the bacteria on the surface of this chicken, I put it under the heating lamp, and then there was another big surge of reactivity that showed up on the yogurt at the other end of the lab.
	All of this means so much, Cleve, but, you know, God, it's so incredible, and it means so much, but we don't know what, do we?
	Well, it means that, for instance, plants are very much attuned to all kinds of things, all kinds of life forms in the immediate environment.
	One time I went up to Yale to give a talk.
	The linguistics department had invited me up to talk on the research, and I took a polygraph up with me, and after my talk I had some of the graduate students come up to the second floor of this building where they billeted the guest instructors.
	And I let them hook up a leaf, you know, and bounce it in on the polygraph on the galvanic skin response.
	And there, they didn't have a plant available, but the buildings were covered with, you know, the leaves of ivy.
	The ivy institution gets its name that way.
	So they plucked the leaf, brought it in, bounced it in on the polygraph.
	And then I said, well, do you have any insects where we can try to show some interaction between the insect and the plant?
	Because I've noticed that so often in my lab.
	They said, well, technically it's not an insect, but we have loads of spiders here in New Haven.
	So they went to the corner, up in the corner of one of the rooms and got the spider.
	They put the spider on the table and when they surrounded the spider with their hands and didn't allow it to escape, when they took their hands away and the spider made up its mind to make a run for it, there was a huge reaction on the plant just prior to the spider taking off.
	And they did that several times in a row.
	Then one of them said, well, Let's let the spider go down this carpeted staircase going down to the first floor, and we'll send another student down to see if they can find it in this darkened hallway.
	You talk about an interesting exercise for these graduate students at a prestigious university like Yale.
	One of them is going down saying, I don't see it yet, and the other one is, well, the line up here is pretty straight on the leaf.
	And then the person says, don't see it yet.
	Well, I'm getting a little reaction up here.
	Then, oh, I see it.
	Then the person found the spider.
	There's a huge reaction on the polygraph up at the top of the stairs.
	All right.
	Jason in Chandler, North Carolina, writes in an email he sent before the show.
	He says, for instance, when insects chew a tomato plant's leaves, genetic signals, he says, are triggered that tell the plant to release chemicals such as methyl jasminate.
	Now, I wonder, If that's true across the board, and could that be what's being measured in that case?
	In other words, there is a reaction, a chemical reaction that's beginning, right?
	It's really disturbing, for instance, if you had, let's say, that leaf electrode at the very time that this was going on, there would be an alternate explanation of why you may be getting disturbances.
	But you know, several years back, there was a good bit of publicity about groves of trees, where if the groves of trees at one location got the blight, the grove of trees over the hills someplace put up their defense mechanisms against that blight, even before it got there.
	And of course, they were so sure it had to be some kind of a chemical messenger that caused this.
	but it's very easily explainable by the primary perception idea.
	where you just said there's a notification.
	You're saying this has been noticed then totally independently of the work you do in, for example, fields
	So this is all independent of your work?
	Yes, I mean, they may not have the same explanation.
	In fact, they may be still looking for explanations that could be easily... Yeah, they're hunting for a chemical messenger, right?
	Yes, they're looking for more of a conventional kind of signal.
	and uh...
	as i understand the only way uh... they they were trying to uh... they were going to at
	least planning to try to get to the bottom of this is to have to
	enclosed chambers and have something in one chamber uh... that would be equivalent to uh... administering the
	blight to uh...
	some plants and then have a closed uh...
	uh... you know uh... a close connection over to the other chamber with filters
	on it to try to filter out what this chemical messenger would be
	And I've never heard any results of that, so I don't think they have any success.
	Well, sure.
	Maybe they need to put matters into your hands.
	I don't know.
	Listen, going back to the egg for a second.
	Yes.
	So, if I have this straight then, if I don't think two things about it, I mean, it's just an automatic thing, I go in, I'm hungry, I crack eggs and make breakfast.
	And I don't even think two things about it.
	Well, then that egg isn't going to freak out at all, because it's never going to see it coming.
	Is that true, or are you... No, I think because it doesn't see it coming is when you're going to get the reaction.
	Oh.
	In other words, but where it somehow has a notification through your imagery of what you're going to do, then it goes into this defensive stance that's very similar to feigning.
	It takes about 20, maybe 20 minutes for it to come back.
	You know, after I did that initial observation of the egg that I mentioned where I dropped the egg for breakfast into the boiling water while I was testing one, I thought, golly, this should be a good repeatable experiment.
	So I spent about, I think, two weeks, at least, making some automation equipment.
	I had an old turntable off of a phonograph, and it still was on this roller bearing idea that would rotate very easily.
	And then I put some corn plasters on it so the eggs wouldn't roll off, and I could get about ten eggs all the way around this thing.
	And then I had it worked out, this is before, you know, you can do it easily with computers now, but at 6, 7, and 8 minute intervals, the egg would, the turntable would turn, a little mechanical boot would kick the egg down a trough, trip a switch, and go into a deep fry of boiling water.
	And I thought, wow, I should be able to get lots of repeatable data, you know, I've got 10 eggs and you're going to be doing this.
	So I put time delay switches on it and I did everything where I could leave the lab.
	And the interesting part is when I came back, I would have, when the first egg went down the chute, I would have a large reaction.
	And then all the other eggs just flat-lined.
	In other words, they fainted.
	They were talking to each other.
	They just went down.
	That was it.
	The signal went out.
	So I had about ten hard-boiled eggs, but one reaction from the first egg.
	So then the kindest thing one can do for an egg is to tell it what's coming, give it a chance to pass out, and then get its little head cracked, right?
	Right, that's it.
	The same way with the ingestion of food.
	The idea that you're going to eat the food, and you're thankful for the source of the food, and so on.
	Oh, yes, yes, yes.
	The very concept of the blessing idea.
	Send it into shock, and then mercifully turn it into an omelette, or whatever.
	You know, I had one of these emulators on a plane once, because I was going to give a talk someplace.
	while i was sitting in the c i think the meteorologist before they were going to
	serve a meal aspect when they serve some meals on planes and uh...
	this poor guy that was caught in the inside when the couldn't get away you
	know i i i pulled out and put the team here on the tray uh... and uh...
	uh... then when they'd served the salad uh... part i said let me put some
	medicine between these electrodes and i've bounced in the latest in the
	things are a little free-flowing i'll tell you all right now please you can't
	do that on an airplane today and if you know it's a little bit of a sky marshal
	and you're going to go away and talk Absolutely, I'd be in deep trouble.
	So anyway, I told the person, I said, now watch, when the people start eating their salads that are being served to them, watch what happens.
	And so the needle froze, it flatlined.
	Well, how did he come away?
	I'm not sure.
	I'm not sure how I'm coming away from this myself.
	Cleve Baxter is my guest.
	I'm Art Bell.
	for guys caught you know you can use the captive audience well how did he come
	away and i'm not sure if you have a good idea i'm not sure how i'm coming away
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	Indeed so.
	Good morning.
	Cleve Baxter is my guest and he's really the father of the research that you're hearing about right now.
	Plants that communicate with each other through time and space instantaneously.
	Plants that remember what was done to them.
	Plants that digest information and remember it.
	That's something incredible if you think about it.
	but anyway we're going to go to the phones with cleve baxter in a moment
	i'm curious In the Baxter household, Cleve, you know, like when you serve up dinner, you don't serve up the salad with a screaming meter attached to it, do you?
	No, no, I don't.
	All right, good.
	I'd like to allow the audience to ask questions.
	You know, your family must have thought you strange for a while, though, huh?
	Well, probably.
	I know that when my parents, when I lived back in New Jersey, they gave me money to take a train from New Jersey down to Texas, Texas University.
	I'd been watching too many Westerns, I think.
	And I went down to New York.
	They had a little train that went from the middle of northern New Jersey to Hoboken, and then you took a ferry across to one of the big train stations.
	And I thought, well, this I took the train money and I went up in the Bronx and I put a down payment on a motorcycle, which I had never done in my life.
	They taught me how to run the thing on one of their training three-wheelers.
	Then they put me on the two-wheeler after they took my money for the down payment and pushed me out over Pulaski Skyway.
	By the time I got down to Texas, I really knew how to ride a motorcycle.
	My parents didn't know about that for several years.
	I see.
	And apparently a lot of other things.
	Yeah, there's a whole string of things.
	First time color line, you're on the air with Cleve Baxter.
	Good morning.
	Good morning.
	I don't have a question, I just have a piece of information to offer as an extension of the research that Mr. Baxter has already uncovered.
	What would that be?
	I believe it was Ed Mitchell, if not him, one of the astronauts in the time of the early orbiting experiments that were going on.
	One of them wrote a book about all of this kind of thing.
	It may have been Ed Mitchell.
	It was Ed Mitchell.
	And in it, he describes that cells were put into orbit from some origin on a person or something on Earth.
	And whenever anything was done to the original cells on Earth, they registered the reaction in space.
	Was this a NASA-authorized experiment?
	No.
	No, it was something he did on his own.
	On his own, okay.
	Boy, I'll tell you, if that's true, then that means Ed Mitchell was on to everything we're talking about way before a lot of people.
	Yes.
	If you were to get his book, you'd find it fascinating because it goes a step beyond what they were doing with mere space orbiting.
	He's interested in all forms of metaphysical activity.
	Ed Bissell is going to be at the conference I'm going to be attending this Thursday.
	I realize that.
	Over in London.
	Yeah, there you are.
	You might want to check with him on that.
	I'm sure that Ed probably will talk about that as part of what he talks about.
	You think, Cleve?
	Well, I'm not sure.
	The information I was aware of, I think he was using the Ryan Zim Hi, this is Larry in Fort Lauderdale, Florida.
	something with the waves and squares and doing some experiments when he was on his space
	trip with somebody on Earth.
	I hadn't heard about the cell stuff, so that fascinates me.
	That would be something you'd want to really ask about, because that would mean he was
	on to this awfully early.
	Absolutely.
	All right.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Cleve Baxter.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	This is Larry in Fort Lauderdale, Florida.
	I had two quick questions.
	The first one is, do you think that mole, household mole, in any way has the same type
	of communication and feelings, and perhaps even a sinister one in ganging up on people?
	You know, that's not such a bad question, really.
	Mold is an interesting organism, isn't it, Cleve?
	Well, you should be able to test mold.
	In other words, if you put a collection of it in a test tube, I feel very certain you're going to get meaningful signals.
	Because we get that from yeast, we get it from bacteria, from the aquarium.
	Just by taking a sample of the gravel in the bottom of an aquarium, which has lots and lots of bacteria on it, putting electrodes in that test tube of gravel, we can get reactions.
	We pipe it into the EEG.
	of events going on inside the aquarium, one fish chasing another and so forth.
	So I would suspect very strongly the mold would be very reactive.
	It seems the most sinister of everything that would drive somebody out of a house and make
	them sick on the way out.
	Well listen, once you get the...
	I'm not sure that the mold is going to be that spiteful, but I don't know either.
	The other question was, if you're out there having to cut your hedges and trimming trees
	and stuff like that, is there an equivalent of saying grace before you have to take an
	Before you commit virtual genocide?
	Yes.
	I'm told by people that have looked into this that as long as you envision that you're doing this for the good of the law and the overall good, there's not a problem.
	In other words, it's understandable, apparently.
	that the trimming of the hedge and the lawn, etc. is for the overall good.
	Are you sure you're not just saying this part of it to make us all feel better about what
	we'd feel otherwise?
	Well, I know that the women have been talking to plants for years.
	Oh yeah, of course.
	And the men sort of sneak out at night and talk to their tomatoes and so forth to make them grow better than the neighbor's tomatoes.
	So I've just heard hundreds of anecdotal stuff from these people.
	I wonder how many men secretly go out and talk to their tomatoes.
	Yeah, sometimes they don't admit it.
	You know, it's interesting that The years that I've been doing this research, I have scientists come up all the time and say, you know, the work you did back in the 60s and early 70s back in New York really changed their lives.
	And of course, it isn't automatic that they're going to feel that they can travel with this information because it could hurt them.
	In other words, on grant requests and so forth, it sounds like they're a little too far out, but how it affected them personally.
	Well, you need some grant money.
	Who would normally, for what you're doing, possibly contribute grant money?
	Well, I've been wondering about that for a long time.
	I've had some modest grants given me, but most all of it has been self-funding.
	I've just been dumping my own money in this for years.
	Also, all the proceeds from this book, Primary Perception, goes to further research.
	Oh, no kidding?
	Okay.
	And then, of course, you've got your lie detector work that you do as well.
	Yes.
	I jokingly say that my research in biocommunication is built on lies, but it's the lies that people tell and get tested on that pay the bill.
	Very good point.
	Very good line.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Cleve Baxter.
	Hi.
	Yeah.
	This is Bernard in Moorhead, Minnesota.
	Yes, sir.
	And I'm listening to you out of K-Fire in North Dakota there.
	Way to go.
	He was talking about the, you know, talking to the plants and doing all these tests and stuff.
	Well, I had a couple of plants that I picked up, one in the garage sale and one at work.
	And they were both dead.
	I just barely living.
	And I did the same thing.
	I took it home, babied it, fed it, watered it, talked to it, played music for it.
	And they both grew, came back to life, you know.
	So I can see that.
	I've heard a lot of stories similar to that.
	Yeah.
	Also, I've heard stories about people that have threatened to plant.
	If they didn't do better, they're going to throw it out.
	Wait a minute.
	that because i think that the other side of the world and what it will hold will
	did that did not get action if they they Cleave?
	Yes.
	It did?
	Oh, absolutely.
	In other words, get off your giant rock.
	If you don't give, you won't start living.
	I'm going to take you to the dump.
	I've had a number of people tell me their experiences.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	You've got to get down to earth with them.
	Oh, gee, Cleave.
	Another interesting thing, too.
	People have told me That they have bad experiences because when they go traveling abroad, or something of that nature, or gone for any length of time, that they have people come in to water their plants.
	Sure.
	And they give them plenty of good care, but the plants don't do well.
	And when they come back, they find them in pretty bad shape, even though the care has been okay.
	And I said, well, all you need to do is take photographs of those plants with you, and then wherever you are, just look at those photographs several times a day, and give positive thought toward them.
	And you're going to find that the plants you've tuned right into them are going to do much better.
	Remote plant nurturing.
	Yes, absolutely.
	And I've had some good results from those suggestions.
	Okay, so then all of this then is also tied, Cleve, into the prayer, isn't it?
	They've really done some amazing studies, as you well know, about things prayed for, things not prayed for.
	It's repeatable.
	It happens again and again and again and again.
	It's got to have meaning.
	Right, I feel certain of that.
	It's just unhandy information for some scientific disciplines, and they're a little slow to pick up on it.
	And yet, there's so much more they could do, how they could expand their research if they would just grasp on this concept of the biocommunication, as far as biology is concerned.
	You know, there's a field, and I have a book on their research, and they call themselves, well, it's electrophysiology.
	Now the electrophysiologists are ones that are hooking up instrumentation for all kinds of conventional reasons to life forms.
	Now they have to be sweeping so much stuff under the rug, you know, because there's no way they could be missing this with the instrumentation they're using.
	So what are they doing?
	They certainly don't bring it up, but it just makes me think that, you know, They're using EG equipment for the conventional, the brain waves and all kinds of things.
	So then they're attributing it to what?
	Well, they use it in regard to event-related brain potentials, they call it.
	Yes.
	And they're trying to see if there are certain parts of the brain that relate to memory, etc.
	and so forth.
	But they have to be seeing the things that they're discarding as artifacts have to be the very things that I'm seeing all the time.
	All right.
	Wester the Rockies, you're on the air with Cleve Baxter.
	Good morning.
	I'm sorry?
	I said, uh, you're on the air and good morning.
	Both of those have, well, one has meaning anyway.
	You're on the air.
	Yeah, it's a good show you got on tonight.
	Now I'd like to ask your guest a question.
	Fire away.
	Um, do you possibly think this might be some type of evidence or could lead to some type of evidence, uh, to the concept of omnipresent intelligence within the universe that, uh, Operating outside of the time-space continuum, and being segregated within it.
	And I'll listen to the answer off the air.
	All right.
	In other words, God.
	Well, in a way, you're talking about a universal intelligence, and you're probably talking about something that goes far beyond, you know, this planet which we're all wrapped up in, but this could be just one minor place in the funny farm of the universe or something.
	We don't know where God's hanging out.
	This concept of omniscience, omnipresence, and omnipotence, the three characteristics or attributes of God, do and have to involve biocommunication.
	So I think it ties very much into some kind of, when you think beyond this planet, I think you're probably right that there's a universal kind of intelligence.
	First time caller line, you're on the air with Cleve Baxter and Art Bell.
	Good morning.
	How you doing?
	I'm doing fine, sir.
	Where are you?
	I'm in Ohio.
	Ohio, alright.
	Yeah, my name's Bill.
	And I just wanted to give a little statement and see what you guys might think about it.
	What I wanted to say was that, you know, aside from all the research and everything, I'm a Christian person, so I believe in God, and I just want to say that, you know, I've always believed that everything on the planet, all of us, are all connected, you know?
	And though an egg might not think like a human does or whatever, that we all are connected in some way or another.
	So therefore, you wouldn't have reactions, you know, to each living thing, you know, from another living thing.
	Alright, well, that's exactly what the program is all about.
	That's... I guess we're talking about a universal...
	You know, on the back of the book that you have in front of you, you'll see an expansion of Gene Houston and Deepak Chopra where they talk about that very thing.
	I see it, yes.
	People should pick this up.
	Where is your book available now?
	Well, you can get it from Amazon.com and also from the website primaryperception.com.
	But the name of the book is Primary Perception.
	And so a lot of people are going to be hunting for that.
	This is my one and only book.
	I have a lot of stuff written about my book.
	What finally drove you to writing it?
	Well, I just turned 80 and I thought I better.
	Yes, you're right from that perspective.
	This is sort of autobiographical.
	It goes from the very beginning and it builds systematically on how... First of all, it may be weird enough to spot this, as far as my background is concerned, and then it goes Progressively, every step of the way, how one thing led to another.
	And it lists, there is reproduced in the book, authentic copies of all the charts concerned, the important charts, the EEG readings and so forth.
	Well, it's all here, indeed, and Cleve, you did mention you're 80.
	Where do you want your research to go, so that when you're gone, it's not?
	Aside from the fact that you've got a book, that's great, but somebody's got to pick up the mantle.
	Well, this is one of the things.
	I have a non-profit research foundation, which I've had since 1965, in fact, where any donations are tax-exempt, but I need to get a significant amount where I can have some kind of a center, because all the material and the charts and the files and the videotapes and so forth I'm not sure what will happen to them if something happens to me because there is no plan.
	Yes, well, if I were to ask you, which I just did, who would you want this research to go to?
	What would you be most pleased with?
	well they would have to be someone that would be interested in up that that had
	an active uh... you know uh... in the research facility of something of that
	nature where you could be sure that uh... all the material you gave to them with uh...
	the safely stored you know and i'm not going to add an academic research
	facility at a college level something like that we want to get you if the
	college people could really get involved uh...
	to the point where they would want to do that it would be a kind of library of
	science library type situation uh... so uh...
	i'm open to suggestions about that because i'm starting to think along the
	lines of wanting to preserve the material that's been accumulated over the years
	Well, not only that, but to continue the research.
	I mean, all of this, if true, and it seems like it really is true, is so important to mankind It just can't be forgotten.
	That's all there is to it.
	Well, I think that's why I've dedicated a good bit of my life to that and a lot of personal finances.
	I think it's very, very important.
	By the way, I really appreciate your signing the book for me.
	That was really nice.
	No problem.
	During all the years that I've been doing this program, Cleve, I've been hearing stories about all of this.
	I hate to say it, but it's almost like when you hear it, it's almost at the myth level for a lot of listeners.
	Yes.
	They think of it as kind of, oh, they're talking about a big myth.
	You know, plants reacting, thinking, being sentient in some way.
	Please.
	It's no myth.
	It is no myth.
	I'm not naive at all, and the evidence that I have, you know, there's hundreds of high-quality observations.
	Many of them are anecdotal because they don't lend themselves to repeatability of the very same thing.
	How have the big important experiments you've done, how has this affected your life?
	Has it changed your life and the way you regard things and plants and everything?
	Well, I'll tell you, I was raised, again, in northern New Jersey, and my father was the superintendent of a Presbyterian Sunday school for 30 years.
	I had to go to Sunday school and church every Sunday to get that wreath and whatever those little dangling bars are that tell how many years you've done that.
	I got, I think, up to 14 years in that before I went away to school.
	And I thought to myself, gee whiz, let me take 14 years off to see if it makes any difference, because I was attributing many of the things that I'd learned during those early years just to the power of suggestion.
	And then I got associated with someone on a trip I made to the West Coast that was very interested.
	He was from a theosophical family, and the theosophical people are sort of an interface between Eastern philosophy and the West.
	And we just talked around the clock and combined my rather extensive experience with hypnosis with his concept of the teachings of theosophy.
	And then when I got to the plant stuff, I thought, well, gee, the scientific community, the first thing I did was I called in scientists from different disciplines to see if they could identify what was going on.
	And when they couldn't, I said, wow, if they've missed this, they could be very wrong about the rest of it, too.
	You bet.
	All right, Cleve.
	Cleve Baxter is my guest.
	Hold on.
	We're going to go to the poems of When You Get Back.
	From the high desert in the middle of the night, if this isn't fascinating, what is?
	I'm Art Bell.
	I'm turning every turn to see the days inside. Watch it in slow motion.
	Falling in love was the last thing I had on my mind.
	Holding you is a warmth that I thought I could never find.
	Just trying to decide.
	I'll stay by your side.
	I know I could cry.
	Just trying to decide Or stay by yourself
	I know I could cry I just can't put an end to the questions that keep going
	through my mind Baby, it's all the time
	I miss your time to play Boring and fun, but we all mistake
	It's all the time I miss your time to play
	Boring and fun, but we all mistake To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code
	7.
	The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
	To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll free at 800-825-5033.
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	International callers may reach Art by calling your in-country Sprint Access number, pressing
	Option 5.
	Cleve Baxter.
	He's the guy who's done all this research, culminating now in his book, Primary Perception.
	Coast and worldwide on the internet. This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	Actually your opportunity to question a legend. Cleve Baxter.
	He's the guy who's done all this research culminating now in his book Primary Perception.
	Bio-communication with plants, living foods, and human cells.
	i can't imagine wouldn't have a question about all this jason from chandler north carolina also wrote he's so
	simply the email in uh...
	In addition to feeling stimuli, plants can also see other plants.
	Most plants see red and blue light as well as far red light, which is a part of the spectrum humans can't see because the plants reflect green light and absorb red and blue light.
	They know they have fewer neighbors When there are fewer red and blue wavelengths in the area, this is why plants grow away from each other, he says.
	They avoid competition.
	Cleve, do you think that is true, that they see in a way?
	Well, I'm not fully acquainted with that concept, but I think this is a situation where we're using one of the recognizable senses to try to explain how plants do indeed stay away from each other.
	To me, the primary perception of communication would probably be for me an easier one to understand than the color of the light.
	There's some articles that came out recently about how roots will stay away from each other.
	The root structure underground.
	As they approach each other, they can see where the roots will steer clear by using something like they use for ants.
	You know, where they have to play plates of glass.
	That's quite remarkable.
	Betty in Calgary, Canada says, I had a Christmas cactus, you talked about this, Cleve, one that never bloomed for about six years.
	One day I actually said to it, bloom dammit, or you're going into the garbage.
	Well, I had it bloom that year and every year since.
	That's right, you've got to lay the law down.
	Do you honestly believe that?
	I do.
	Because it's not your words, it's the imagery that helps you formulate your words.
	And even though you may speak them out loud, it's the plants picking up the imagery.
	Thinking of itself in a trash can.
	Yeah, I've had a number of people give me examples of that.
	Oh, I don't know what that says about life, I'm not exactly sure.
	There's another point that I failed to mention, maybe some others too, but how I first discovered the plants were so attuned to human cells, the death of human cells, back in New York City, The laboratory that I was located in was on the fifth floor of this building, and on every other floor of the building there was a restroom, and the men's restroom happened to be right on the other side of the wall from the lab.
	And ordinarily I did most of my stuff at night, but there would be people who wanted to come by during the daytime, and I would show them how to electrode plants, and I would show them the tracings, and then I would get these huge reactions And nothing was happening in the lab that would account for that, but then I'd hear the flushing on the other side of the wall.
	So, in chasing that one down, there are human cells that are excreted with body fluid.
	I'm not sure you want to chase that one down.
	There's plenty of room for exploration here before you get to that.
	This was a tip-off, though, that human cells and plants were very much attuned to each other.
	I guess.
	First time caller line, your turn with Cleve Baxter.
	Hey.
	Howdy there.
	Fascinating show, gentlemen.
	Thank you.
	I just wondered if he'd read the Celestine Prophecy and some of the research.
	I'm not sure whether it was fiction, fact-based, based on fiction or the reverse of where they'd have people sitting in the garden on each corner of a garden and concentrating On the plants and they, you know, vegetable gardens and such and they grew faster and more nutritious.
	And then another question was they did some research.
	I'm not sure where I read it years ago, where food was cooked with, like you say, as you're thinking about it with, you know, nutrition for the family or love or whatever.
	I'm not sure how they measured the nutrition, but it was of a much higher value than Well, it's my understanding of the latter point that when a plant is in somewhat of a shock and unprepared for the things that are going to happen, that there are some excretions that are involved that could alter the taste and perhaps the nutrition
	of the food concerns.
	And his first point.
	The first point in the Philistine Prophecy.
	I'm not familiar with that.
	That's fascinating.
	I didn't know about that.
	Cleve, the four people who would sit on each side of a garden causing the vegetables to... I mean, that would be a hell of a job to sit there and think these vegetables along, but That's what he mentioned.
	Have you ever heard of that?
	Well, I haven't heard of it in conjunction with that particular publication, but if they were to periodically do it and not do it constantly, that would be sufficient.
	It should work.
	Good job if you can get it.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Cleve Baxter.
	Hi.
	Hello, my name's Robert.
	I'd like to share two comments.
	Alright.
	The first one is how everything is connected.
	Like, everything on the planet is alive at the same time.
	Well, basically people are the only animals that came away from the awareness of the planet, like this one living entity, and we're just separating it from it after birth.
	Yes.
	I'm sorry, I'm nervous.
	That's okay, but I think I know what you're talking about, because humans seem to be the only ones out of the loop, you know?
	Yeah, I guess that's an interesting way to think of it.
	You're the only ones out of the loop.
	Because, you know, I think that people, especially people who are psychic, I think when they're capable of handling the material and the information they learn is when they come back into the loop again.
	You know what I mean?
	Yes, I do.
	East of the Rockies, your turn with Cleve Baxter.
	Yes.
	My name is Aaron.
	I'm in Huntsville, Alabama.
	I'm 1230 WBHP.
	Yes, sir.
	It's an honor to speak with you and to get through.
	Thank you.
	I just had a quick question for your caller about plants remembering what happens to them.
	Yes.
	Is this kind of a short-term memory that they would forget later on, or is it more of a long-term memory where maybe their molecular structure, their That's a superb question, sir.
	Cleve, is the memory that they form tested?
	Can you test it and see how long-term it is?
	I would suspect you could do that.
	I'll tell you what we did as a precaution, though, when I did my initial brine shrimp experiment with the plants is we had to keep bringing in new sets of plants because the plant would remember That nothing did occur when that signal came from the death of the Brian Shrimp.
	How far have you gone though in testing the length of that memory?
	I haven't.
	This is why we really need to get people involved that would really pursue something like that once they understood that this is a vehicle that could be very valuable for research.
	Wow.
	There's really a lot more that can be done with this, isn't there?
	Absolutely.
	This is just the bare beginning in a lot of ways.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Cleve Baxter.
	Good morning.
	Good morning, R. How are you?
	Just spiffy.
	Well, first of all, I wanted to tell you that your show is the best on the air.
	You're kind.
	Thank you.
	And second of all, I wanted to ask Cleve, I wasn't able to hear the first part of the show,
	so I don't know if you covered this already, but can the plants tell you how or what they want,
	and if so, how?
	Well, now, I would imagine that you could develop a system that would enable the plants to do that.
	In other words, if you were to make a continuous recording or even a spot check recording of the plants and had worked out the signals with them as to what they would show.
	I've had psychics come in my lab back in New York.
	Psychics?
	Yes, psychics, and they've worked out a system where two spikes would mean one thing and
	one spike would mean another, and they were actually able to create some kind of communication
	with the plants.
	That's pretty darn interesting.
	I mean, I wouldn't think that psychics would fit into that, but I guess everybody's into
	everything these days.
	Yes, that's true.
	I mean, but I mean, as far as like, say they're thirsty.
	Is there anything besides their leaves wilting or something like that?
	Or if they need more copper or whatever?
	I don't know of any system that has been done or any research project that has been done on that.
	But I would suspect that it would be possible to do that.
	Where you're letting the plants tell you whether they like one kind of fertilizer better than another.
	Things of that nature.
	Do you have any suggestions on that?
	The only suggestions I have is somebody that's into the botanical work, that once they grasp on the idea that there is a lot that could be explored with this capability that I'm talking about.
	It seems to me a large agricultural company, for example, Cleve, would have, or should have, an enormous interest in what you're doing.
	I mean it might Be a way to grow, yet, even, we're always doing that in the U.S., trying to figure out how to grow larger, healthier crops, right?
	Yeah.
	So, this is big money we're talking about here, so you'd think they'd take a little money and look at what you're saying.
	Well, you know, at one time there was a field called radionics, where something such as this was attempted, where certain frequencies were worked out to where these radionics people would put even a picture of a field I am not.
	With what kind of results?
	Well, there was some government interest in it way back.
	then try to improve the health of the field just by radioactivity ukraine's
	all i am not aware of what kind of results well uh... that there was
	some government interested in the way back i talked to a general that uh...
	it was in charge of that but it was so
	it it was so good uh... you know i i i would like to be conventional body of
	knowledge that i think it
	that he got stigmatized and and probably dropped and well uh...
	you know I guess people better read your book.
	Maybe that'll launch more research.
	You're on the air.
	Good morning with Cleve Baxter.
	Where are you?
	I'm calling from the Netherlands.
	The Netherlands?
	Okay, you're going to have to yell at me, Netherlands.
	You're not too strong, but go right ahead.
	Okay, Cleve.
	It is really an honor to talk to you in art.
	I notice you're keeping a more conservative show.
	You've not mentioned anything about sperm or blood on this one.
	I mentioned briefly something about blood, but the sperm, it's just an oversight, it's not that I'm afraid to talk about it, but when I was interested in seeing if this capability went down to the human cell level, that was one of the first things that was tried, was a sperm sample with electrodes put in it, and then the donor, who has grown too old to get repeatability on this experiment any longer, which crushed an amyl nitrite And this is used for dilation of blood vessels for people that have, you know, blood pressure problems and so forth where they don't have a stroke.
	But when they inhale the fumes at a distance, the sperm samples show a huge reaction.
	There you go, Colin.
	Now you've got it all.
	That's in the book, too, by the way.
	I'm not holding that back.
	The question I have for you is I have access to about 100 1990s-era EEG machines that can be refurbished.
	And I was wondering if these would lend themselves to people who wanted to do this research, as Art mentioned himself.
	Well, let me tell you something.
	I think it would, and I wish you would tune into our website, primaryperception.com, because we have people that are asking us every day questions of where they can get a hold of some equipment that will make a tracing.
	And the idea of the accessibility of inexpensive EEG just hasn't been a solution so far.
	What I will do is email you if you take Mel with the name Dan and so you'll know that I'm emailing you.
	Okay, from Netherlands, right?
	Right.
	Okay, I'll recognize that, and I would be very anxious to communicate further with you.
	Well, we do a paranormal company, and I would love to play with this myself.
	100 EEG machines.
	Copy me on that email, too.
	Well, I'll tell you, I think we can get rid of those in a hurry for you.
	No doubt.
	Well, I kind of heard that in the back of his voice.
	I don't know, he's gone now.
	Oh, okay.
	But we'll find out very shortly in the email.
	Absolutely.
	I'm hungry.
	Wow!
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Cleve Baxter.
	Hello.
	Hi, my name's Carol.
	I'm calling from Willow Creek, California.
	Hello, Carol.
	And this is just a great topic, and so I had a story I thought I would relate.
	Okay.
	Years ago, I lived in San Francisco, and I had a roommate who hated plants.
	If I was gone a few days, she wouldn't water them.
	She'd always threaten to throw them out.
	And if I was gone for a few days, then a week or something, I'd come back and it would be just drooping.
	And it was a split-leaf philodendron.
	Really beautiful and big.
	So, after we weren't living together anymore, and I was living someplace else, the plant was just doing wonderfully.
	And about a year later, she came to visit.
	And I was working and she stayed at my place.
	And after two days of her being there, well I was at work so I wasn't there all day, my plant started to wilt and turn yellow.
	You're getting repeatability right there.
	And so after she left, it was fine, but I lost leaves and it looked like it had some kind of, you know, disease, what was happening.
	And it was just, it remembered her and her attitude.
	You know, I had an experience back in New York where this botanist visited me when she was coming through New York and wanted to see how to electrode the plants.
	I had tried out the philodendron, which I use for a lot of my early research, and every one of these leaves were reactive to the different plants that I attached before she arrived.
	When she arrived, these plants all flatlined.
	They wouldn't show a single thing.
	And I asked her, I said, do you do anything that harms the plants you work with?
	She said, harm them my dear, I roast them to get their dry weight.
	And when she left, They all came back and were reactive again.
	I could hook them up and get tracings.
	That's why I love this show, because plants do, and they do remember.
	Oh, I think so.
	I think they do.
	Thanks for all the information tonight, and Art, you're wonderful.
	I'm glad you're there on weekend.
	You're sweet, Art.
	Thank you very much.
	It really will provide I don't know, an awful lot of material for people to think about.
	I mean, if this is true, it changes our relationship with almost everything, or it should, if we embrace it.
	Just amazing.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Cleve Baxter.
	Hi.
	Hello, Art and Cleve.
	Hi.
	Art, do you remember when you interviewed Rupert Sheldrake and he talked about the people recognizing when somebody was staring at them?
	That's right.
	This falls into that same category and I do believe it has to do with the harmonics interfacing with the field frequencies.
	I'd like to ask Cleve if he is aware of the 50 fireflies or more in a tree that blink in unison or the schools of fish that wheel at the same instant.
	Only casually, and this is fascinating, in flocks of birds that all turned at the same time.
	Yes, without a ripple effect.
	Yes, absolutely.
	Schools of fish and the birds, etc.
	I'm not sure just what is involved there.
	It seems like there would be some kind of field because just the idea that they could There's so much in heaven and earth that we just don't have a clue about.
	We really don't, do we?
	I do believe it's a feedback loop that takes place.
	Art, do you remember when you spoke about your echoes coming back on your radio?
	there's so much on heaven and in heaven and earth that we just don't have a clue
	about we really don't do it i'd or i do believe it's uh...
	it's a few feedback loop that takes place
	and uh... are you remember when you spoke about your uh...
	uh... echoes coming back on your seat on his request were almost out of
	time here bs uh... that also i i believe in the feedback loop that saturates
	the field and you get the echo back to the point of uh...
	the uh... original disturbance for that Believe me, it's as good a theory as any, and we've had some wild ones for that.
	Well, Cleve Baxter, it has been a pleasure having you on the show.
	I'm glad you wrote the book, Primary Perception, and everybody interested in this should go out and grab it.
	Right away.
	But you've been a real pleasure to interview, Cleave, and I should have done it long ago.
	Thank you very much, and I appreciate the invitation.
	Okay, my friend.
	Good night.
	Good night.
	And I want to remind everybody just one more time here, folks.
	Want to connect with me?
	No problem.
	Two email addresses, artbell at aol.com or artbell at mindspring.com.
	But right now, I guess this weekend, It's all over.
	Here's Crystal Gale with the right words to get us out of here.
	Good night!
	Midnight in the desert Shooting stars across the sky This magical journey We'll take this on a ride We're filled with a longing Searching for the truth We make it till tomorrow Will the sun shine on you?

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