Art Bell

All Episodes

Previous Next

Oct. 3, 2004 - Art Bell

02:52:23

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Cleve Backster - Plant Perceptions

Participants

Main voices

01:02:57

cleve backster

01:08:36

Large

Audio Only |

Scroll

Show episode speakers

Speaker	Time	Text
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Mah desert in the great American Southwestern area, just adjacent to area 51.
		This is supposed to be a weekend version.
		I'm ourselves glad to be here this evening with all of you and an honor and privilege of the host of the weekend.
		Interesting night tonight.
		We Baxter is here and he's the original guy who did all the research on the plants.
		And by the way, I want to call your attention to a photograph up on the website.
		It's pretty cool.
		You've got to dig in a little bit past the front story and continue with the article, you know, on the second page, and then you just click on, oh, where is it?
		The photos from Fate Magazine.
		And these are pretty impressive.
		A photograph really does convey millions of words.
		And the photograph on the front page here is, or at least on the Fate Magazine portion on the second page of the website, is of two sets of plants.
		One exposed to, well, a classical music, soothing classical music, and they're just growing and they're happy and they're green and they're prolific.
		And then down below it is one, you can even see a little of the amp up above doing the job.
		They're exposed to acid rock.
		And they are dying, deadly, drooping in brown.
		They have been killed by acid rock.
		Wonder what that says.
		Anyway, the subject for next hour with the man who did all of this, Cleve Baxter.
		Now, in the world right now, bloodied by weeks of suicide bombings and assassinations, Iraqi security forces emerged Sunday to control Samorra after a morale-boosting victory in this Sunni triangle city.
		And U.S. commanders praised their performance.
		American and Iraqi commanders have declared the operation in Samara 60 miles northwest of Baghdad to be a successful first step in a major push to wrest key areas of Iraq from insurgents before the elections in January.
		So a little good news.
		It's not too many nights on the job here.
		You get to read any good news at all, but that's a little good news from Iraq for a change.
		Now, the volcano.
		Headline, Mount St. Helens may take weeks to erupt.
		I know people who have already displaced themselves, getting out of the way of what they fear will be worse than what the scientists predict.
		Mount St. Helens stewed in volcanic gases and low-level earthquakes Sunday with crowds of eager tourists hoping to glimpse an eruption that scientists said could happen immediately or in a few weeks now.
		A second long tremor earlier on Sunday and an increase in volcanic gases strongly suggest magma is on the move.
		Researchers from the U.S. Geological Survey said the mountains alert was raised to level three, the highest possible, after a volcanic tremor was detected Saturday for the first time since the mountain's 1980 eruption.
		So I wonder if earthquake prediction is like hurricane track prediction, not exactly a totally settled science, apparently.
		So it could go kaboom, or it could just go or it could do nothing at all.
		I suppose there is that range, but they have it at level three, indicating get ready, here she comes.
		The military now is in the final stages of readying its national ballistic missile defense system.
		Did you know that?
		Officials predicting it will be activated before year's end.
		But several questions remain, including how well the experimental missile interceptors actually work.
		The Pentagon, of course, maintains that any defense against intercontinental ballistic missiles is better than none.
		Critics contend the Bush administration is vastly overselling an expensive, unproven defense system.
		So we have the missiles poised to do their job.
		However, apparently they're not certain whether they will do their job.
		And maybe we will not know until there is an intercontinental ballistic attack.
		And then you're going to want to cross your fingers, knock on whatever you got, pressed wood, whatever.
		We'll be back in a moment.
unidentified		We'll be back in a moment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Incidentally, last night's guest, Dr. Tess Gerritson, I told you that was a good book, and it would appear as though you are at least taking a chance on it.
		Her book, Gravity, was in the thousands on Amazon.com, and we did the program last night.
		I gave you my personal endorsement.
		This book is one exciting book, probably the most exciting I've ever read, and said, go grab it.
		You know, just go grab it.
		Trust me on this and go grab it at Amazon.com.
		It has risen from somewhere in the thousands to like number 36 on Amazon.
		So obviously a lot of you are taking my recommendation.
		And what I would hope is that after you've read it, you will send me an email.
		That's easy to do.
		I'm quite accessible on the web, artbell at Mindspring.com or artbell at aol.com and give me your assessment.
		I thought it truly was about the most exciting book I've ever read.
		Yes, it's a little on the techie side, although not in a way that the average person cannot digest quite readily, particularly those of you who listen to this program.
		I mean, you're just going to suck it up.
		You're going to love it.
		All right.
		In the morning, the X Prize may be won.
		Mojave, California, $10 million riding on a 90-second rocket blast over California's Mojave Desert on Monday morning.
		In some time zones, that is today.
		If Spaceship One follows its flight plan, including a straight-up trajectory above a 100-kilometer altitude mark and then back down again, the team behind that spacecraft will win the X Prize, that's $10 million, as well as the trophy and multi-million dollar purse that goes with it.
		But anything can happen, as was demonstrated during Spaceship One's two previous spaceflights.
		In June, unexpected wind shear and a control system glitch knocked the plane off course last Wednesday during the first prize-worthy flight.
		There have to be two to win the prize.
		Spaceship One experienced an unanticipated dramatic roll that led its skipper, veteran test pilot Mike Melville, to shut the engine down 11 seconds early.
		In both cases, Spaceship One successfully went beyond the 100-kilometer mark in altitude.
		And so this is serious stuff.
		Monday's flight, due to begin at the Mojave Airport at 7 a.m. sharp, serves as the climax of the eight-year X-Prize program following up on Spaceship One's first official spaceflight in June last Wednesday's flight.
		Payback at last.
		Success would result in the first substantial payback for Mojave Aerospace Ventures, the corporation that builds the rocket Spaceship One.
		It would bring vindication for the main players behind the ventures, spacecraft designer Bert Rutan, of course, of Mojave-based scaled composites and the ventures' financial backer, software billionaire Paul Allen, who said he has now invested more than $20 million to win the $10 million prize.
		Rutan and Allen already are looking forward to future payoffs from Spaceship One as well, though.
		And what they say, basically, is that this is for us.
		It'll establish in the minds of the average American, all of us, the fact that it is something that you can actually consider in your lifetime, space tourism, that you can buy a seat to space.
		I wonder how many of you would if you could.
		Now, you heard tests last night on the danger of going into space, the probable number of things percentage-wise that can go wrong and kill you in any given flight based on the accidents that have occurred so far.
		Now, this, of course, is a private effort, perhaps not as many moving parts as the shuttle, but nevertheless, you'd have to think it over very carefully.
		Would you pay to do it?
		Anyway, I wish them Godspeed and wish them well and hope they win the prize because it will open a new era where all of us might consider that in our lifetimes, wouldn't that be something?
		You just sort of never imagined that possible, but in our lifetimes, we might get that ride.
		We might get to take a ride.
		Question is, would you?
		Remember we were talking last night about ELF and the fact that the Navy is now giving up in Wisconsin and the areas where they have all these gigantic antennas to talk to submarines.
		You remember that?
		Good.
		Here's an email from a lieutenant, I'm not going to give his name, a lieutenant commander, a U.S. Navy retired.
		Our Navy's TACAMO, T-A-C-A-M-O, an acronym for I don't know what, uses VLF and is survivable.
		This means very low frequency, not extremely.
		I used to be a mission commander, airborne communications officer for both the Pacific and Atlantic tours of duty.
		Get this, with a seven-mile plus-plus dual-trailing wire.
		That means a seven-mile wire behind an aircraft.
		Two of them, actually, one shorter than the other, serves as a counterpoise.
		Signals, in fact, do get to the subs.
		It uses a secret modulation technique to get below the noise level.
		But as a ham operator myself, I once convinced the Navy to keep CW as well.
		To the human mind, trained CW operators can indeed hear a steady tone below the noise floor.
		I flew a C-130Q for years.
		We orbit to get the wire vertical, both helically.
		Now they use E6As, a 707 variant with big turbo bypass engines.
		Fixed ELF stations are not survivable.
		I'll get it survivable, costly, and of course politically unsavory in Michigan.
		HARP, VLF, and Chemtrails have nothing to do with each other.
		Okay, I guess I can buy that aircraft with trailing wires could do that.
		But would that be the normal way that we would communicate with our subs minus the ELF capability?
		You would think during stressful times, we might not be able to get aircraft where we would want them to accomplish this with X number of miles of wire trailing behind them.
	It seems a kind of a clumsy way to achieve communication with any given submarine under the water.
unidentified		What do you think?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, here's an interesting one.
		Scientists rumble Earth's hum.
		There's a headline for you from The Guardian, of course, an English paper.
		Scientists have solved the mystery of a global hum, which has plagued them since it was discovered back in 1998.
		The constant drone at low frequencies, we've heard many complaint of it, right?
		Well below the range of human hearing, shows up in seismic measurements but cannot be explained by events like earthquakes.
		Jukay Ree and Barbara Romanos from the University of California, Berkeley, blame the hum on stormy oceans.
		Writing in the journal Nature today, they suggest rough water sets the Earth's crust shaking, causing the hum.
		The sound is probably caused by the conversion of storm energy to ocean waves, which interact with the shape of the ground at the bottom of the sea.
unidentified		Humming.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The hum is faint, but it represents the release of energy equivalent to an earthquake of magnitude 5.75 to 6.
		It is made up of notes in the frequency range of between 2 and 7 millihertz in musical terms, or about 16 octaves below middle C. To pin down the hum source, the researchers analyzed seismic data from ground monitoring stations in California and Japan from the last 60 days in 2000 when there were no earthquakes to drown out the noise.
		They worked out the hum was tied to winter in each hemisphere when ocean storms are most severe.
		Our results show the ocean plays a key role in the excitation of Earth's hum.
		So there you have it.
		They found what causes that hum, and they're saying it's crashing ocean waves reverberating, setting up a vibration at the very base of the ocean.
		Kind of an interesting story from Georgia.
		It was 1959 or 1960, as Best Smith remembers, as he trawled for shrimp off the coast of Georgia, but his net snagged on something big, an object so heavy he had to get a diving buddy to shake the net loose.
		You know what he caught, huh?
		He caught a nuclear weapon.
		He dived down, and when he came up, he said, hey, that's a bomb.
		Recalled Smith, 72 years of age.
		I wrote anything much of at the time, thought he was cutting the fool or something was the expression.
		Smith's story still fascinates.
		His 50-year-old son Glenn, the younger Smith, figures his dad caught the so-called Tybee bomb, a 7,600-pound nuclear device dumped by a damaged B-47 bomber in February of 1958.
		And so they now think they may know where this bomb is.
		The Air Force is hot and cold on going to get it, at one point saying, ah, nah, you know, leave it where it is, wherever it is.
		They did go look for it and gave up a long time ago.
		Now, they may go back and take another look.
		But in the meantime, there are others, Miss Father, for example, who says he let the mystery drop after retrieving the net, and others who want to go out and take a boat and go and get their nuclear bomb, or our nuclear bomb, actually.
		Boy, I'll tell you, if you owned a nuclear weapon, you would be the envy of the neighborhood.
		Well, I don't know about maybe not the envy.
		You'd be well respected, no question about that.
		Imagine owning a nuclear bomb, a nuclear bomb of your own, one that you could have, oh, I don't know, in the basement.
		And every now and then, I'd be a hell of a conversation piece.
		You wouldn't believe what I have in my basement.
		And you could put a little clock on top that would tick down to impress visitors.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		What if there's like a domino effect chain reaction type thing going on?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		With what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean with volcanoes or what?
unidentified		Yeah.
		They drill for oil.
		They go to war for oil.
		Korea with nuclear bomb testing and cavities from the oil.
		Put it all together.
		You know?
		The ELF thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know if you can put that together.
unidentified		No?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't know if you can do that.
		But a chain reaction or a lot of volcanoes going off at one time.
		Now, that does have meaning, I think, sir.
		And it seems to me it means that down in our earth, we have a connection, you know, all that boiling and toiling and lava down there.
		And when it gets excited, it comes up virtually everywhere.
unidentified		What if we're exciting it?
unidentified		What if Korea's exciting it or the military with the ELF and the hurricanes and the storms and the money?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Mazuka, let's throw in HARP.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What about HAARP?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Okay, well, you're willing to toss just about everything in.
		Who knows what's doing it?
		It may be that we just need to sacrifice a couple of virgins, something.
		Maybe they were right back then.
		I mean, they did stop, right?
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is this Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would be me, yes.
unidentified		Yes, this is John.
unidentified		I'd called you before about the magnetic wheel at Coral Castle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, the magnetic field at Coral Castle, yes.
		The magnetic wheel?
		Yes.
unidentified		I sent you an email with some big news.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, what would that be?
unidentified		The emails...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Encapsulate it for me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What was the big news?
unidentified		I found a code at Coral Castle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You found what?
unidentified		A code, a secret code.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What kind of secret code?
unidentified		It's so hard to describe verbally.
		If you could get to the site, it would explain everything.
		I set it up to explain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I understand, but I can't right now.
		So just make your best attempt.
		Just give me a sense of what kind of secret code it is.
unidentified		Okay, on the cover of Ed's book, you'll see two lines, two little current lines.
		It almost looks like a design just for the book.
		If you take those lines and overlap them, you get a pattern.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you think then that this book is.
unidentified		It is the flower of life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I got it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you think he's put the secret code on the cover of the book?
unidentified		I know he did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, hide it in plain sight, right?
unidentified		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I get it.
		I get it.
		And I'll look for the email and pursue that.
		Thank you.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		This is Olin.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Olin, turn your radio off.
unidentified		I just did.
		I'm in Culver City, California.
		Yes.
		I think that these volcanoes are coming from burned ocean floor sediment that is subducted under the edge of the continent by spreading ocean floor.
		Now this buried sediment turns calcium carbonate into calcium oxide and carbon dioxide while the water turns into superheated steam and that floats upward and explodes out of the top right above the subduction zone at the edge of the continents.
		So if you just look at this ring of fire, it's all around the edge of the Pacific Ocean where the ocean floor is subducting under the edge of the continents.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you feel about the concept of two virgins being sacrificed to put a rest to all of this?
unidentified		That would be a terrible waste.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I'll take that as your reaction.
		And indeed, that is a legitimate reaction.
		From the high desert in the middle of the night, which is where we do all kinds of biz, this is Coast to Coast AM.
		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		You got me running, going out of my mind.
		You got me thinking about, I'm wasting my time.
		Don't bring me down.
		The official website of Coast to Coast AM is www.coastacoastam.com.
		Log on now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, everybody, listen carefully.
		Our numbers on the weekend are a little different.
		So if you want to get through, we're going into open lines.
		Here they are.
unidentified		To talk with Art Bell.
		Call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Art Bell from East of the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
		From West of the Rockies, call ARC at 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach Art Bell by calling your in-country sprint access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is indeed.
		Good morning, everybody.
		It is a fine morning here in the desert, presently about 65 degrees out there.
		if you've got something really cool share with all of us and pick up your phone dial one of those numbers and in a moment will rock the the A nuclear bomb would be really cool, wouldn't it?
		Yeah, one.
		I was going to mount a rocket in our front yard.
		You know, like about a 20 or 30-foot rocket.
		I figured that'd get neighborhood respect, but Ramona wouldn't let me do it.
		First time calling the line, you're on here.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hey, Art.
		How are you doing tonight?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm just fine.
unidentified		Yeah, this is Tom.
unidentified		I'm up here in northern Alabama heading into Tennessee.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes, sir.
unidentified		Yeah, you talk about that hydrogen or that bomb earlier.
unidentified		I was watching that the other night, and they said that is a multi-megaton hydrogen bomb.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it's a big one, yes.
unidentified		And whatever it is, it was Savannah Harbor or somewhere like that, sitting right in the harbor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, I don't know if they're sure about that yet, but there are stories here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, yeah, it's there somewhere.
unidentified		That sure ruined the fishing, wouldn't it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I really don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, I'm told that most things that fall into the ocean like that actually help the fish.
unidentified		Unless, of course, it blows up and then probably makes fish blow in the dark.
unidentified		Another thing is my wife's upset with you because you changed your intro from what you used to do to the kingdom of night, and she misses your old intro like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did I say that?
		I don't know.
		I think I've modified and morphed that intro over the years into all sorts of different, whatever I feel like doing at the moment.
unidentified		The old one about, like I said, the old one when you used to have a show full-time, from the Kingdom of Nigh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, well, indeed, it is the Kingdom of Nigh, sir.
		Believe me, this area where I live is, while we are now, I am told, the fastest-growing unincorporated town in America.
		Can you believe that for Prump?
		Oh, you ought to see what's going on around here.
		It's incredible.
		There's building going on everywhere.
		It's like a land grab going on in Prump here.
		And When we moved here, it was a sleepy little, you know, sort of suburban desert town, and now it's blossoming into this incredible thing.
		And another five years, we'll probably have 100,000 people here.
		I think there may be in the order of 30 to 40, maybe closer to 40,000.
		No one's really sure.
		It's really everywhere you look, it's growing like crazy.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hi.
		I was on hold for a little bit.
		I was wanting to talk about it because I was having a discussion in a chat channel.
		Why should we go to the moon or even space?
		I mean, what will we gain from the knowledge of our solar system?
		All the graphs and technology of the masses didn't tell us what exactly happened to our solar system and why we sustain life and live when other planets don't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, why should we do it is the question, huh?
unidentified		Yeah, why do it?
unidentified		We're wasting money.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, wasting money.
		You know, I'll bet this argument has been made since the very beginning of people who venture forth into the unknown.
		Why do it?
		Why go across that ocean?
		You know the earth is flat.
		You know damn well the earth is flat.
unidentified		And a proposal to sail off the end of the earth is stupid.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it's a waste of the queen's jewelry and money.
		So there is rarely an answer to that question, except the unknown very frequently brings riches beyond all belief and knowledge that humanity needs.
		And so that argument has never worked for me.
		I don't know how it does on you.
		East of the Rockies, you are on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hey, Art Sam Jay from Detroit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		A couple of years ago, you were talking about black mold.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, black mold, yes.
unidentified		Yeah, they had a program on one of the local stations here in Detroit.
		This is a couple of years ago.
		They went into this lady's house because she had a problem with black mold.
		And I'll tell you, the entire house was just overtaken with this.
		Everything.
		Carpet, furniture, walls.
		It was like carpeting on there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you let it get out of control like that, then I can't imagine how could she just sit there and let it take over everything.
unidentified		Well, she says that she scrubbed and scrubbed, and this stuff would just come out.
		You know, it was a fairly nice house, too.
		It wasn't like some dump or something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're saying it grew so fast that despite her best efforts, which she did make, it literally covered everything.
unidentified		It just grew that fast.
		They had a shot of the reporters walking into the house.
		I don't know if they did this as a retake.
		But when they opened the door, there was like a cloud of gas that just came out the door.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was incredible.
unidentified		And her insurance company would not touch it.
		And this was a mother.
		She wasn't married, apparently.
		She had children, and her entire house was just being destroyed by this.
		It was just unbelievable.
		It was literally eating things.
		It would eat holes in things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's incredible.
		really was in what would that back when we ran the story uh...
		what shocked me about it was that we were getting so many of the you But lo and behold, we were getting stories from Phoenix all the way up into this area about black mold.
		And one just has to wonder a little bit how you could collect enough moisture under general circumstances, not sliding or pipe breaking, that sort of thing, but under general circumstances to feed something like that in the desert.
		It does not make sense.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yes, they say borax, making a paste out of borax, the only way to kill that black mold.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		This is Stephen Phoenix.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hey, Steve.
unidentified		I was hoping for a little help from your audience there to refresh my memory.
unidentified		I heard a couple of interviews, or at least I think I did, saying that that X-Prize has to be a three-man crew.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no.
		I think that it must be a spacecraft capable of carrying a three-man crew.
		I don't know if it's specified that all three have to be.
unidentified		I was under the impression that this is a one-man rocket.
unidentified		Secondly, you had a nurse on, an Army nurse, that was advocate for the Gulf War syndrome.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Joyce Riley.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		Could you get her back on to discuss those 300 U.S. servicemen who died from the pneumonia last year?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would like to know certainly more about that, and I will see what I can do.
		There's an awful lot of intense study going on right now in Iraq with regard to, for example, depleted uranium and its effect on the troops.
		Awful lot of study going on, and I've seen some pretty worrying stories, so you might want to look into that.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Art, my name is Steve.
unidentified		I'm calling from Tampa Bay, Florida.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Steve.
unidentified		Several months ago, I was driving to pick up my wife.
		It was well after dark.
		Sky was black.
		There were very wispy, scattered clouds, and a full moon.
		I saw a shape which I've never seen before.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Steve, turn your radio off for me, Steve.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You saw a shape where?
unidentified		Well, let me tell you about this, and I want to know if any of the listeners have ever seen anything similar.
		The only way that I could even see it, it was totally unlit.
		But what it did do was it blocked out whatever was, you know, beyond it.
		That way I saw it was a shape.
		It was elongated, totally black, looked sort of like a dirigible, a rather large one, except that it was wider in the middle than an average dirigible and pointed at both ends.
		And it was definitely slowly moving.
		I was surprised there was no reason for there to be a dirigible above St. Petersburg-Clearwater International Airport.
		It's a commercial airport.
		It would have been kind of dangerous, but it was high up.
		And it was just sort of slowly floating up there.
		And I just wondered if anybody has ever seen anything similar.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, we'll throw that into the ether, and I can assure you, if they have, I will get many emails on the subject.
		There are many, many, many unusual, strange, unaccounted four things in our skies.
		That's For certain.
		What percentage of them actually might turn out to be other than earthly origin is a gigantic question.
		First time caller line, you are on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, this is Donnet from Oregon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Welcome.
unidentified		I had a couple things I just wanted to mention.
unidentified		One time, you know, the chemtrails from like the jets?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		I saw it was circles over and over and over again as far as I could see, perfect circles.
unidentified		And I've never heard of anything like it before, never seen anything like it before.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sounds like God blowing smoke rings.
unidentified		But they were perfect circles as far as you could see.
unidentified		And then the other thing I have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, let me offer an explanation for that.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There are some new propulsion systems that cause a craft to fly at very high velocities by virtually having explosions, you know, actual explosions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, like that.
unidentified		Would they be really big circles, like miles across?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, after they'd had a chance to grow, you bet they would.
		It's kind of like blowing smoke circles.
		When you blow one from your mouth, it comes out a little big one, right?
		But then it gets bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger.
		Well, that happens at an atmospheric level as well.
		So in all likelihood, that's what you were observing.
		Anyway, that's my best guess, a type of propulsion.
		Wildcardline, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, my name is Richard from Phoenix.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hey there.
unidentified		Hey, I just want to talk to you about a certain concern of mine, and I hope people follow through with this.
		And I've heard about these chips that people are going to get installed either inside their forehead or in their hand.
		And they're put out by Motorola and the Mondex Corporation.
		The friend showed me some stuff about it on the internet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And why are they having them installed?
unidentified		Okay, so people can get tracked like a tracking device.
		So, you know, the original idea is good.
		It's like you don't get your identity stolen.
		But I don't know.
		I believe in a lot of things about the Bible.
		A lot of it's true, I think, that there's also like a mark.
		And if we get something put inside of us like that, it's not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I've heard this, yes.
		All right.
		Well, so when they come to you and they say, look, your credit cards are no good anymore, buddy.
		You might as well rip them up and shred them.
		And the other ways you have of paying for things also are no good anymore.
		And so we have this little chip that we'd like to inject so that you can continue living like a, well, you know, the life you've become accustomed to.
		So will you take the chip or not?
unidentified		No, I will not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're going to become a street prison then?
unidentified		I guess so, have to go by barter or something because it's going to be real bad if they do that.
		I know you won't be able to pay your rent without it or anything like that.
		But I hope people, the more people don't do it, the better.
		That way there'll be enough people against it.
		And there's a lot of people I've talked to, no matter what religion they are, they don't want some stunt installed from their skin.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, right.
		You know, I think that's probably right.
		Not a lot of people are going to want it.
		Particularly here in the West, where we do have that view of the number and the beast, right?
		What about the rest of you, if you were confronted with that sort of bleak decision to continue living in the manner to which you had become accustomed?
		Or becoming a street person, you decide not to take the chip.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		This is Dale calling from Austin.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Dale, what's up?
unidentified		Ghost.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ghosts are up?
unidentified		I had this problem for months.
		And April 15th of this year, a little after midnight, the lights are out.
		You can hear somebody in the bathroom right here by the bedroom urinating.
		This went on for several seconds.
		The entity you can smell cigar smoke all the time.
		There's nobody smoking.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you wouldn't think that a ghost would have to urinate mostly, but I suppose it could be a ghostly stream.
		I don't know.
		You just wouldn't think that that'd be something a ghost would have to do.
unidentified		Is there a way I could find a local person to find out what this is here or get somebody with a Ouija board or something?
		I'm tired of it.
		Doors slam.
		Three years ago, doors are slammed in another apartment in the daytime, at night, taking showers.
		Doors slam.
		What can I do?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What can you do?
		Well, I don't know.
		I don't know, honestly.
		I mean, there are perhaps some people you could contact.
		I don't.
unidentified		I'll listen through and maybe somebody can give some suggestions on your program.
unidentified		I appreciate it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, take care.
		You know, as many calls as we get like that, even though it seems like a joke, there ought to be some Ghostbusters, you know, that, you know, for a fee, would go to a place and stop ghosts from urinating in the middle of the night or whatever all they're up to.
		Maybe there'd be money in that by now.
		Look at the number of calls.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
		Hello there?
		No, huh?
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hey.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello?
unidentified		Just responding earlier to the caller about the chips, I definitely would not have it put in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You wouldn't?
unidentified		No.
unidentified		Don't be afraid of someone cutting off my arm and wanting to use it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And stealing your identity?
unidentified		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, wouldn't it be suspicious, though, if you went into a store and you swiped somebody else's arm?
unidentified		That could get messed up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You want bloody scum?
		I don't know.
		So you think criminals would go to that length, so to speak?
unidentified		Try to bullet the person at gunpoint.
		Here, run your hand over the scanner.
		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I suppose that's true.
		Wherever there will be criminals, there will be new ways of taking your money.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hey, Art.
		Hi, this is Paul from Fresno.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hey, Paul.
unidentified		Hey, what happened on that ham thing that You I think there was two of them, the way I understood it.
		When you heard that signal, and then they investigated it, and it sounded, man, all that stuff sounded pretty good to me.
		I think you're the first discoverer of an ET signal.
		But it's a kind of a second event.
		And you could tell me what happened on that.
		And then also one other thing.
		You know, your deal about when you die, don't go toward the light, like the guy said, maybe go towards the other one?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Well, maybe you don't have a choice.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know.
		It does seem like there's a choice.
		It seems like you die, and there's a light on one side and darkness on the other.
		And it has forever bothered me that John passed that on to me, that somebody else had Whitley allegedly said that.
		Knowledge gleaned from I don't know where, but just hearing it once and hearing the suggestion that it could be a trick.
		And if you go toward the light, you're really going to burn in the fiery hell that awaits the bad people below because you made the wrong choice.
		Somehow you wouldn't think that God would set up a trick question, would you?
		Upon death.
		God just wouldn't do that.
		Although, one never knows, and maybe God has more of a sense of humor, and it's much drier than we thought.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Good morning, Art.
		Hi.
		Just wondering if any of your listeners know the Wenatchee tribe legend of Mount St. Helen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what is it?
unidentified		Reader Digest Condensed Version.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, no, no, no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You give it to me if you can.
unidentified		Basically, there were two chiefs that both had the love for the same woman.
		And they kept sending their people to war, trying to get the love of this woman by making war against each other.
		Well, the Great Spirit saw this, made it rain for a long time until all the fires went out.
		Well, these two chiefs decided, you know, we've just got to put this fighting to an end.
		And they saw up on a hill a teepee with fire in it.
		And they went, and the two brothers, who finally got along after fighting over this woman for years, there in the tent was the woman.
		Now, she had fire again, and she said, if you will stop fighting and stop this useless killing, you know, we will make you a permanent part of the landscape.
		She was, I guess, Mother Nature.
		I didn't quite understand that part of it.
		But they turned one into one Indian chief into Mount Rainier, the other Indian chief into the, oh gosh, the other mountain south of it, and the mountain in between was her, Mount St. Helen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't think these stories are meant to be literal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think they're meant to be metaphoric.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Don't you?
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		But the entire premise of the whole story to tell the tribe was you, you know, if you are sent into useless wars and kill each other for useless reasons, Mount St. Helen will blow again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, maybe that's it.
		And maybe somebody got made a deal.
		You know, one of those deals.
unidentified		One of the ones you just can't refuse.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm our belly.
unidentified		Now, George, if you were looking for a total deal, he put a bag and waited a bag and wouldn't make a deal.
		You came across the young man.
		And the devil's not the bottom.
		he presents a boy that they want want to find travel go back to past shows on stream like Sign up online at CoasterCoastAM.com.
		Give the devil a view.
		I better fiddle a gold against your soul'cause I think I'm better to you.
		The boy said, "My name's Johnny and it might be a sin, Take your bet you're going to regret because I'm the best as ever been.
		To talk with Art Bell.
		Call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
		From west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach ART by calling your in-country sprint access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free, 800-893-0903.
		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		For all these years of doing this program, I've heard these rumors approaching the giant myth category about Cleve Baxter and his work.
		And I've seen and talked to people who have recited some of Cleve Baxter's work.
		But tonight, here is Cleve Baxter.
		Cleve Baxter is the founder of the Baxter Research Foundation and currently teaches at the Baxter School of Lie Detection.
		He's also on the teaching faculty at California Institute for Human Science and serves on the advisory board at the Institute of Heart Math.
		Cleve is an international speaker on the subject of biocommunication, has been a professional observer of human psychopsychological tracings since 1948.
		A long, long time.
		Since 1966, Cleve has conducted extensive research related to observed electrical responses in plant life and at a cellular level in other living organisms.
		His research into what he has called, or has been called, the Baxter effect has attracted worldwide attention and, as I mentioned, has been sort of recited here, sometimes, I thought, almost as myth, the work Clete Baxter has done in a moment from the man himself.
unidentified		I'm out.
unidentified		I'm out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As promised, here he is, Cleve Baxter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Cleve, welcome to the program.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, thank you very much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It really is an honor to have you here.
		I mean, I really have.
		I've heard people quoting your work and all, you know, talking about you for years and years and years.
		And so it's great to actually talk to the person finally who did the research.
		And that's kind of, I guess, what I'd like to hear about first, how all of this began for you.
		And I'm sure you've told this probably a million times.
		You're getting tired of it.
		But, you know, you've got to know when you're doing an interview like this.
		You've got to know.
		How did it begin?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Actually, it began back in New York City.
		And in a laboratory I had there, I had only two plants in this laboratory.
		I had a Dracena cane plant.
		That's one of those with a long trunk and long leaves, and a rubber plant.
		And it occurred to me one night, because I work very much late at night in polygraph research.
		I wonder how long it takes water to get from the root area of that Dracena all the way up through that trunk and down into those long leaves.
		So I figured, well, you know, I've got polygraph equipment all over the place.
		That was at school we were running back then.
		And the galvanic skin response section of the polygraph is supposed to measure resistance changes.
		So I thought if I took a couple of those electrodes that we use, the finger contacts on people, and just sort of strapped them on each side of one of those long leaves down toward the end, after I watered the plant, as the contaminated water would go up the trunk and down into the leaves, the leaf would become a better conductor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		And I should be able to get a tracing that showed me the rate of climb.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You would find, in other words, you were looking for less resistance as the water made its way up?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		The contaminated water would be a better conductor and make the leaf better conductor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And is that what you got?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		No, no, it isn't.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		If anything, the leaf trended downward, the tracing from the leaf trended downward rather than upward.
unidentified		How could that be?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, years after the fact, I know very much what it is, because the plant was in such a state of excitation at being attached that it was already equivalent of a high human emotional level, and it had nothing to do but calm down from where it was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, in other words, you had so shocked that plant, that plant said to itself, what the hell are these?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it was in a state of excitation.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it was.
		And therefore, this countered what I was looking for, which I didn't see at all, is an accurate representation.
		I wasn't counting on consciousness of a plant to be another factor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I doubt it was your first guess, Cleve.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So to what did you originally attribute the fact the resistance didn't drop?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, it didn't take very long for me to figure something was not going by schedule.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		About one minute along in this initial observation, I saw something that looked very much like the contour of the galvanic skin response tracing with a human that was telling an important lie on the polygraph.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Meaning what, Cleve?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, you saw the resistance, you were measuring resistance, so it did what?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		It spiked up.
		The tracing would swing upward and then recover.
		Do you have that book in front of you, by the way?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you talking about primacy perception?
		Yes, primary perception.
		I have it right here.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, because on page 24, what I'm trying to describe to you is the galvanic skin response going up toward, it's peaking toward the top of the skin.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I've got it.
		All right, so folks, what happened?
		Oh, my God.
		I see.
		I see.
		Now, this is showing responses right off the little chart here.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		The figure to the left is the actual tracing from the plant, and then the figure to the right is a typical tracing from a human taking a polygraph test.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my goodness.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		So this changed my priorities, and I stopped worrying about how long it took moisture to rise, and I said, wow, it's almost as though this plant is showing me human-like reactions.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		And so I changed my priority then, and I said, well, what can I do that would be threatening the well-being of a plant, similar to the threat to the well-being of a person taking a polygraph test and lying on a very important question, such as, did you fire that shot causing the death of so-and-so?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Clean, how long have you been researching lie detector technology?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		1948.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		19.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		When I got into the polygraph test about 56 years ago.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		And then, of course, I've been 38 and a half years on the primary perception since 1966.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is the way very important discoveries are made by accident, more times than not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can see why you'd absolutely jump out of your skin to see.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		You know, on the right-hand page there, on page 25, then you'll see that around 13 minutes along in this initial tracing, I thought, well, I know what I'll do to threaten the well-being of this plant.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		I'm going to burn the leaf.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And all the change...
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		I'm going to burn that very leaf that I have attached to the polygraph on the Dracena Cane.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		And there you'll see what happened over toward the right-hand side.
		And that was merely the imagery of my burning the leaf.
		It was the only change.
		The building was empty.
		There was no distraction.
		I wasn't touching the equipment.
		It wasn't touching the plant.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And when that imagery and intent came into my mind, You burned the leaf while it was still attached to the plant by recognition on it?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		No, that was merely my intention to burn it.
		And when you see that tracing jump right up to the top of the page there, I said, wow, it's almost as though this plant read my mind.
		So way back, even then in this initial observation, I could see that something very special was going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is as though the plant read your mind.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		And at the bottom of the page, you'll see the wild excitation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I thought, well, gee whiz, I You know, when you see an earthquake, the pen goes up and down, right?
		Well, it's just like that.
		And it's a very long period.
		How long on this top graph, Cleve, were you monitoring?
		How much time does that restrict?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		The recording goes at six inches a minute, and there are five seconds in between each of those vertical lines that you see there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		And in fact, that particular one is the one I have on the cover of the book, also, you'll notice.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, see, well, if you just attach a plant up and everything is well and just spiffy, does a plant go through gyrations in a 24-hour period like that, or does it generally stay flat-lined?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		It would stay fairly stable.
		You'll notice leading up until that intention on my part to do something to threaten the well-being of the plant, it was fairly calm.
		The little sirrations that you see in the tracing are different than the smooth tracing you would get from a human because the plant, the cellular discharge from the cells of the plant go directly up into the electrodes.
		And with a human, you have cellular discharge from the cells, but the body is such that it acts like a capacitor.
		It makes a smooth tracing.
unidentified		Cleve, is this repeatable?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		The idea of people being able to see this event on the polygraph, hundreds of people have done that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Okay, so then let's talk for a second.
		Let's say this is absolute science.
		I mean, it's absolutely real, which is what you're telling me.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then what do you attribute the spike to?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, we can bandy around things like, well, the plant read my mind.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that really, really?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, the research that followed that, this is the thing that launched it, there are many, many observations that followed this that really reinforced the idea that the plant was very much into the quality of your thinking.
		And probably the method of transfer is imagery, not words, because I wasn't speaking out loud.
		And just the intent and my envisioning in order, you know, the idea of burning that plant leaf was picked up by the plant.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Scientists have been recently learning a lot more about intent in general in the context of consciousness discussions.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Intentionality.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, absolutely.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		And this ties right in.
		If you pretend, and in fact, when my partner in the polygraph school came in later that morning, he pretended he was going to burn the plant leave.
		Nothing would happen.
		You had the intent, and the plant could tell the difference between your pretense and your intent.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's pretty interesting.
		You're saying when you did it, you really had intent.
		You didn't actually do it, right?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		No, actually, I really lost interest.
		I thought, well, you know, this plant is pretty special since very interesting things are going on.
		And all I did is I made a very feeble pass, if you'll notice the bottom of the page 25 there, a feeble pass at burning the leaf.
		You see where it says CB, lit the match.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes, yes.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		And I thought, well, I'm not going to be able to see anything anyway because of the overreactivity.
		So I forgot about that.
		So I didn't actually go through the Well, what are we talking about here, do you think, Cleve?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is this some sort of what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is it?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, as following through from this, I went from the plants and I got into a whole series of testing of chicken eggs and found out how to electrode those.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		And then from there, it went to bacterial cultures, etc.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, let's stay with chicken eggs for a second.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What did you discover about chicken eggs?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, I had a dopamine pincer in the lab back in New York, and I would feed the dog an egg a day.
		I would separate the yolk from the white.
		And this particular day, when I was running a, really it was a long-term monitoring of the plant.
		In this particular case, I had run hundreds of feet of chart paper just trying to see what the plant had to show me rather than to make it do things.
		And then I eventually ended up piping the signal into a meter so I didn't use up so much chart paper.
		It was pretty expensive.
		And the meter was sitting on this little shelf where I was preparing the dog's food.
		And when I cracked the egg, the meter just went into wild agitation.
		And nothing had happened except my cracking of the egg.
		And so I thought, wow, I'm not going to let this get the best of me.
		I'll figure out a way to electrode that egg.
		Something's going on there.
		And so I figured out that if I boiled a couple little cubes of sponge in a little saline water and then pinched the moisture out of them and put them on each side of the egg, the moisture would soak through the outer eggshell and hit the inner skin of the eggs and it made an ideal electroding configuration.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you now had a connection, a viable connection to an egg.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		And I went through hours and hours of recording from eggs.
		In fact, I have some over the book.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what did you discover with eggs?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Eggs were tuned in also.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Reacting the same way a plant would?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		In fact, if you were to pick up one egg and shake it, the other egg that was attached would react.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, this sounds an awful lot like quantum stuff to me.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, it ends up that way.
		Years later, I've been coming to that conclusion, too.
		I think we're into non-locality because some of the stuff I do is at a great distance between the material I'm testing and the donor of that material.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Cleve, how can you rule out the experimenter in this?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, you can't.
		In fact, that's a very important aspect.
		The experimenter can really contaminate the experiment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or he could even be the result of the experiment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And have you found a way to rule that out?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, the only way that I've been able to do it is to totally automate the experiment and have a programmer that actually executes the whole experiment, and I leave the lab at the time it's going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then what?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, then I can...
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, I can get a real indication of things that are going on in the lab that aren't disturbed by human consciousness.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
		but in terms of the randomness of when the experiment is done, do you still get the same result?
		So, okay, so that would eliminate the experimenter from the equation.
		You feel you successfully did that?
unidentified		Yes.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		In fact, the initial experiment that I published before I went public with this thing involved the automated dropping of brine shrimp in simmering water at one end of the lab.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		And at the other, in several different rooms, there were plants attached to each to a separate polygraph.
		And I found that when the earlier I observed very much that plants were very much attuned to the death of any kind of life form in the lab, insects, things of that nature.
		And so when I designed that experiment, I chose brine shrimp to stay out of trouble with the anti-visis actionist kind of people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So is the bottom line of this that everything is apparently or seemingly connected to everything, or is it things in more proximity, Cleve, that are connected to each other?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Proximity isn't a requirement.
		It's on a need-to-know basis.
		In other words, there's an attunement.
		And once there is a reason for the communication to continue, it continues over vast distances.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once there is, there you've got it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once there is a reason for the communication, and the reason for the communication could only be, I think, proximity, right?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		The initial proximity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The initial proximity.
		Okay.
		Then that might explain why twins, for example, separated by continents halfway around the world can identify times when things happen.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		That would be a logical explanation, Dave.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But there has to be a preliminary physical near connection, and then there's some other connection that's maintained.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		This has been my experience, at least.
		In other words, a lot of my work, you'll see as you progress through the book, it leads up to that testing of human cells in vitro.
		And when the human cells were left in my lab, some of the work I was getting reaction from the donor over a distance of 300 miles.
unidentified		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It may be the distance and time.
		I don't suppose...
		Have you been able to, in any way, approach measuring the speed of the communication?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've come to the conclusion after really trying to explore this that there is no time consumed because now we're getting into quantum physics and non-locality.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Because non-locality does not involve time consumption or distance limitation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		So no time.
		In other words, the speed of thought or occurrence or simultaneous quantum whatever is just instant instantaneously, right.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		And when I've talked to quantum physicists about this, I've said, well, gee, once you start saying that there's any frequency, frequency takes time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		And if you start to expand that beyond a local distance and say, well, how long does it take something on the other side of the universe to become aware of something going on here as far as the quantum theory is concerned?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		And they said zero seconds instead of thousands of light years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So I understand that you're not, I guess, a quantum physicist.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		No, not at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I would like to understand, I mean, I guess I understand the speed of light.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I understand that we're not supposed to be able to break that speed of light.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		That's the going theory, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But quantum communication clearly appears to do that.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Yes, there's a Bell theorem they seem to cite a lot in non-locality that talks about atoms that are spun in certain directions and the direction changes over a distance and one mimics the other, even though distance is in between.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a concept I just can't grab.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How that communication is occurring outside of everything physical on this earth and beyond.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, I don't grasp it either.
		I was so happy that the quantum physicist came along to give me some support.
		Because, you know, people would ask me, would you please define this communication?
		And I'd say, whoa, as long as I've been doing the research in this field, the only way I've stayed out of trouble is not to try to explain the nature of the communication as far as the scientific community is concerned.
		I said, I can give you hundreds of high-quality observations, but once I try to give you a faulty explanation, then you throw out my good observations.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're absolutely cautious and correct to do that, and that's exactly what they would do, because there's no good answer to that right now, is there?
unidentified		Right.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, when you get into quantum physics, they seem to have delved into it a good bit, but even among physicists, there's lots of discussion and conflict sometimes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's because it has to cut right across everything we know about physics and say there's something about everything we know that's totally wrong at some level, at the quantum level, maybe.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, this is one of the problems.
		You have whole bodies of information that is threatened by some of these new concepts.
		And, you know, it's really strange.
		It's very hard to get some of these people to change their story.
		You want to say written books and articles and so forth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Cleve, the skeptics who are defending the status quo scientifically must say something to explain this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do they say?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		You're talking about the protectors of the faith.
		Yes, protectors of the faith.
		Well, they just, you know, they don't go to the trouble to try to explain anything.
		In fact, they don't go to the trouble to look for themselves to see something that's going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold it on that note.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll be right back.
unidentified		Strawberries, cherries, and an angel's kiss in spring.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert in the middle of the night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		Israel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And this is Coast to Coast AM.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		stay right where you are.
unidentified		I walk in town on Silver Spurs, the jingle too.
		A song that I had only sang to just a few.
		She saw my Silver Spurs.
		I walk in town on Silver Spurs.
		I walk in town on Silver Spurs.
		To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Art Bell from East of the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
		From West of the Rockies, call ARC at 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach Art Bell by calling your in-country spread access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, it seems the future of the world is very quantum indeed.
		Deepak Chopra, author of How to Know God, wrote, Cleve Baxter's research has profound implications for humanity and its future evolution.
		Gene Houston, Ph.D., said Cleve Baxter's work is essential reading for all those who would delve more deeply into the nature of reality.
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Cleve, you know, the average modern American, when they hear the Native Americans say they can talk to trees and communicate with Mother Earth in ways that we don't understand, they generally go, yeah, right.
		You know, that kind of attitude.
		They just sort of, you know, sure.
		But doesn't a lot of what your research seems to show here indicate that their beliefs hold some water?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		I learned to have a lot of respect for the beliefs I only heard about secondhand before I got into this kind of research.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Have you ever heard of the book called The Field by Lynn McTaggart?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have, yes.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		This is a wonderful book for anyone that wants some of the things we were trying to get to the bottom of.
		The subtitle is A Quest for the Secret Force of the Universe.
		And she gets into all kinds of things with the quantum physicists and so forth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm trying to shoot holes.
		I mean, your work is incredible, but in a way, I'm trying to shoot holes in it because if it's real, then it has such incredible significance that all of the world science should be all over it.
		So that's why I asked you about the skeptics, Cleve.
		There must be some major way they knock all this down.
		Or is there not?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, they'll use excuses like repeatability.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		And of course, as far as current scientific method is concerned, it's sort of built on the idea of designing an experiment and getting a lot of repetitions and accumulating data.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But it is repeatable, isn't it?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, to see the phenomenon reacting to other, to different spontaneous reactions is very repeatable.
		But spontaneity is very, very important because once you have done something once, the second and third time, it doesn't disturb the plant.
		And so when you design an experiment and you expect to get repeatability on the very same EPA.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wait a minute.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The implication of that is the plant learns.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		Nothing's going to hurt it and it doesn't react anymore.
		And the current researchers that are somewhat critical don't understand this.
		They don't realize that spontaneity and repeatability are not compatible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm having a hard time grasping all of this, too.
		So once the plant has learned that really it is not going to be harmed by this particular action, then you've got to do something else to cause it.
		But within those confines, it's totally repeatable.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it is.
		Or you can bring in different plants, although it would take a long time to do it, and only use the plant just for one aspect of the experiment.
		But the Russians have done, they did a great job of replicating the experiment way back in 1972.
		And I didn't know about it until some of the translations came back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no kidding.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		And you heard Chris Bird and Peter Tompkins wrote The Secret Life of Plants book.
		And Chris Byrd also did Russian translations.
		But some of the material that was translated, I found that, well, there was an article called Flower Recall.
		When that got translated, I saw that they were doing very sophisticated work in replicating my experiment.
		And I went over to Prague in 1973.
		There was an international conference on psychotronics, the first international conference, and I was chairman of the plant, animal, human communication section.
		And I couldn't understand why these Russian scientists were all coming up and wanting their pictures taken with me.
		I don't get that kind of attention back here.
		And it turns out that they were very well aware of the Russian replication of this work.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wonder what the Russians were doing with these.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know beyond the very idea of just the pure scientific aspect of it, I guess it's anyone's guess.
		But they were doing something that they were using hypnosis in a very good hypnotic subject in order to engender emotionality in the subject in order for the plant to react to it.
		And this has been a very difficult thing to do ordinarily.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's fascinating.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and here, you know, back in my counterintelligence corps days in the Central Intelligence Agency, my big chase around the world practically was to find out what spooky secret interrogation method the Russians were using.
		I had a team that could go anywhere to study this.
		And it's rather ironic that the thing I was afraid they were using is some kind of hypnosis and post-hypnotic suggestion in order to create espionage contacts in foreign countries.
		And it turns out that the very thing that made their replication of my experiment so successful was hypnosis.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hypnosis.
		Why hypnosis?
		Did they manage to engender some sort of great fear in the person?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, by mere suggestion, you can create an emotional surge in the person by bringing up something that they're very, very, very terrorized of.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		And the power of suggestion that you have available to you when using hypnosis allows you to turn this on and off almost like a faucet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Well, the communication part of it, which is instantaneous through time and space, is hard enough to buy.
		But now we're getting down to, I mean, after all, Cleve, a plant doesn't have a brain.
		And we're talking about memory of an event.
		That plant learned and then didn't react the same way a second time.
		So what are we talking about here?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		It makes you wonder a little bit about the completeness of our knowledge of where memory is with the human.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes, doesn't it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There have been these intriguing experiments, of course, Cleve, where they've taken the heart and lungs from one donor and put them in somebody else who then picked up their habits and wants and desires.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Right, I've read about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so then one might imagine some memory is at a cellular level, I guess?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, at least that.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		And also remote viewing may get into this, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It may, I know.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		I was invited to their first international conference on remote viewing to give a talk.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm the one that got Ingo Swan and Hal Putoff together that started all that stuff at Stanford Research Institute.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my goodness.
		I see.
		I didn't know that.
		I've interviewed most of the people in this field.
		This has been, for me, one of the more exciting, intriguing things of my whole life.
		The realization of this non-locality and also mass intent.
		I've done some pretty freaky experiments myself with the Audience Cleave over the years.
		Pretty strange experiments.
		Inexplicable experiments.
		Weather control, that kind of stuff.
		And I've got this feeling that it all meshes together, that there's this other side, this quantum other side of things that we don't yet understand.
		And that's where most of this fits in, including remote viewing.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Right, right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You agree with that?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I do.
		In fact, you know, back when I was still going to college, it was in my first and second year of college.
		I was very deeply involved in hypnosis.
		And in the book, my one and only book, by the way, I'm not a book writer, but particularly this one was important.
		In the introduction, I sort of go through this autobiographical.
		But I was delving into hypnosis very, very much in what would be equivalent of my senior year, junior and senior year of high school.
		I was in prep school at the time, and then also in college.
		And I had people doing things that would be very similar to remote viewing back then.
		I would say that even though you're sitting in this chair and you're in a deep, deep sleep, I want you to make a trip, and I'm going to guide you.
		And I would guide them to a different location on the campus and have them explain to me what was going on there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what did you conclude from that experiment?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll tell you, I was getting some results.
		You know, it wasn't a formal experiment, but it was very high-quality observations.
		Whew.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've done all kinds of things with all kinds of things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Plants, eggs, what else?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, the human cells, it really worked up to finally the experiment that we hope to do next now will involve the simultaneous testing of the conventional polygraph parameters, the respiration and the galvanic skin response and the cardiovascular recording,
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		along with EEG simultaneously, and then also, along with that, another tracing that is measuring the in vitro cells from that same subject that has the hard wire contacts hooked up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you think might happen?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, I pretty much know what's going to happen.
		In fact, toward the end of the book, I get into the ultimate thing with the human cell testing.
		I've done an awful lot of work testing leukocytes from the human being that we collect by using a little saline solution, having the person munch on the solution, and that brings out white cells, oral leukocytes, through the roof of the mouth.
		And we centrifuge that and then pipe that off the concentrated cells and put electrodes in them, gold wire electrodes.
		And I've done, in fact, there was a book, Secret Life of Your Cells, that was based on that work that was published about my work.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, but I mean, describe to me how you expect the experiment to unfold.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, now, ultimate in that at the HartMath Institute, we did some work that produced the final tracings in the last portion of the book where we just took a sample of human blood and put two gold wire electrodes in that sample of blood, five milliliters of blood, piped it right into standard EEG equipment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		And it got beautiful tracings that seemed to reflect the emotionality of the donor, even though the donor was remotely located at the other side of the room.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
		That's a wow.
		For sure.
		Are you getting a lot of money for your research?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		No, no.
		And again, because of the school that I conduct teaching police officers primarily how to conduct polygraph tests, that is the thing that has allowed me to sort of struggle along.
		I've maintained a very well-equipped lab since 1977, the old Drug Enforcement Agency lab here in San Diego.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, since you've been doing this work so long, I can't resist.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it or is it not possible for somebody who knows what they're doing to beat a polygraph exam with a good examiner?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, I would say if you had a competent examiner using modern technique and the issue was strong enough, not just trivia, that I would say you could not do it.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Now, the technique that I've devised and introduced to the polygraph field is the one that is the standard that is used and favored by the Department of Defense, the Polygraph Institute, and the military and the FBI.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's quite something.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		And as much as I've had to do with developing that, I have no feeling that I could beat the polygraph if I had done something that was a rather serious issue.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're saying, yes, it would depend on the seriousness or importance of the issue at question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So if it was a small, kind of insignificant thing you might tell a white lie about?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I think that you could mess around there and create confusion, at least for the polygraph examiner.
		We don't say because if a person sits down to a polygraph to take a test, automatically one situation is as good as another.
		In fact, we have a way that we systematically evaluate how good our case information is as one factor, the strength of issue if there's punishment involved, if the polygraph examination leads the investigators to something that's submissible in court, and the distinctness of issue.
		If they did it, do they know they did it?
		So we have a little five-position scale we apply against each of those factors.
		And a good polygraph situation is one that rates very high in all of those.
		Good case information, strength of issue, distinctness of issue.
		So when you go to the other end of the scale on trivia, you don't have those factors satisfied.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why will the courts not yet allow it as evidence?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've testified over 50 times in court.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		And the polygraph wouldn't matter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I mean, polygraph results generally are not allowed.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		I know, but that's what I'm saying.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		I've testified on the results of polygraph that many times.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, how do you do that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's not allowed.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, this has been over a lot of years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I understand, but still, if it's not admissible in courts, how do they get you in on the stand?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		That isn't an accurate statement in black form.
		In other words, it depends on the state.
		It depends on, for instance, juvenile courts.
		It's been easier for me to testify in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no kidding.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		And about half of my work has been done for the prosecution, maybe half for the defense.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very interesting.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Federal and state courts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So juveniles not having the same rights as full adults.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm not sure.
		I think they're just a little more liberal in allowing it in.
		For instance, a judge that has to make a decision that needs help.
		A lot of times judges have even ordered polygraph tests before, pre-sentencing polygraph examinations.
		So you can't just say it's skeptical.
		You know, most of the good that's done by polygraph is done at the level of the district attorney level.
		In other words, where they have had the suspect examined to see if they should even file charges.
		And there is extensive use of that throughout the entire country.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How frequently might a prosecutor who uses polygraph information dismiss charges or proceed based on the outcome of the polygraph?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, I would estimate quite often just talking to the people that come from the various departments.
		Because they trust the polygraph.
		They know it's had good success in the past.
		And they don't spend a lot of investigative time and money and so forth on a subject that passes the polygraph test.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, is there a kind of individual, Cleve, and I've heard this from a lot of people over the years, the kind of individual who virtually, virtually believes their own lies?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		i know that's tough to grasp about but you know i'm told there are people who who are that way uh...
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		is that the kind of person who will look Therefore, the polygraph is not going to be effective in catching them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So obviously there should have been or should be a study to find out if there really are those kind of people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are there?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think there are more habitual liars than there are psychopathic liars.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But a psychopathic liar.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's pretty hard to find who they are in order to do any kind of research.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I guess that's true, isn't it?
		Advertisement paper for psychopathic liars.
		We've got some testing we'd like to do on you.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		They don't really come forward.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I never thought about that.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		I've jokingly said, well, we have to get a psychopathic polygraph examiner to run them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, Cleve, you know, I'm so fascinated by all of this.
		I really am.
		does it mean i mean should we be concluding that plants really do think or should we even if we accept this experimentation as real should we still relegate it to a very very low insignificant level of operation at the cosmic level i mean no i think Because it's going to scream.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, obviously there's memory because plants do adapt, so there has to be an equivalent of memory so that they don't react additionally.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Some kind of memory.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		And there's discrimination.
		You can hook up several plants simultaneously and focus on only one of the three, and that's the only one that reacts.
		So there are a number of things that are rather interesting that are characteristics that ordinarily one would not attribute to a plant.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You wouldn't go so far as to say sentience of any sort, would you?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Oh, sure I would.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you would.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, sentient plants.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Sentience is a key word in my research.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, sure it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, that's a strong word to apply.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		It is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Plant.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so would it go as far as to say that a plant might like one person and then hate another person?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm not sure about the hate, but there have been, for instance, a number of experiments, in fact, that people could do even without instrumentation.
		They can take three plants, this has been done with bean plants primarily, and have three samples of those plants, and they can lavish one sample with all kinds of love and positive thoughts.
		They can ignore the middle, and they can just start mentally beat up, not touch it in any way, but have all kinds of negative thoughts, not wishing it well at all.
		And there's a vast difference in the growth rate of these over a period of time.
unidentified		I hope your stems rot and your leaves run around.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That kind of stuff, you mean?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, in fact, there was a Reverend Franklin Blauer that wrote a book once on the power of prayer on plants.
		And it wasn't just the prayer that did it, but it was the attention that did it.
		In fact, there was a documentary that I participated in, the Nova show.
		The green coat is called the Green Machine.
		And they put about 20 minutes on my research, but then they also had his segment in there.
		And they were very paranoid about any cheating, so they had a big aquarium that was closed where no one could breathe on the plants and so forth and so on.
		And he said the same attention.
		And the only thing that was different was that he sat outside this aquarium.
		And again, he went through this process of the back of his hand to the one plant, you know, just mentally speaking, not touching it, and ignoring the middle one and casting love and affection toward the others.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And the results?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		There was a vast difference.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		And this is all very well controlled and showed on the TV show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, hold tight, Cleve.
		We'll be right back.
		Cleve Baxter is my guest from the high desert.
		This is Coast to Coast AM, and I'm Art Bell.
		In the nighttime, where we do our duties.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
		Subscribe to After Dark.
		Call toll-free 1-888-727-5505.
		People, you let it go to the moon.
		Summer happy, summer stay.
		Oh, I'm coming up to you today.
		What the people need is a way to make them smile.
		Summer happy, summer stay.
		Be it sight, sand, the smell of the touch, the something inside that we need so much.
		The sight of the touch, or the scent of the sand, or the strength of an oak moves deep in the ground.
		The wonder of flowers to be covered and then to burst up through tarmac to the sun again.
		Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing, to lie to meadow and hear the grass sing, to have all these things in our memory's heart, and the Easter to come just to die.
		Yeah!
		Find my nice soul, take this place, on this trip, just for me.
		Find, take a free wall, take my place, up my seat, it's for free.
		Wanna take a ride?
		To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll-free 800-825-5033.
		From west to the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach Art by calling your in-country sprint access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Cliff Baxter is really the father of this research into the fact that plants react.
		Plants apparently have a memory.
		Plants apparently communicate the way many things do instantly across any distance you can fathom.
		And all of this is difficult, I know, to fathom, but these experiments have been done and then repeated and done again.
		and if it's true and i don't see how you can come to any other conclusion although will try but if it's true changes everything so All right.
		Once again, Cleve Baxter.
		Cleve, welcome back.
		Thank you.
		Before we leave the whole lie detector area, if we even do, we've met people on the show.
		You know, people have made claims about things they've seen and, you know, stuff like that.
		And, for example, some of them have failed or their first lie detector test has been declared to be inconclusive.
		So if generally our reactions are, I don't know, I guess I'm asking, can we sit in a place all hooked up and manufacture a series of reactions in our head that, although not showing physically, have the needles jumping all over the place to the point where a readable reaction is not possible?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll tell you, people have tried the biofeedback, and that doesn't work very well because there's a time delay before they can actually create any changes in the rate of the heart or blood pressure.
		And the entire theory of the polygraph technique that I've introduced into the field involves a focusing of psychological setup or prioritizing, because within the structure of the polygraph test, we actually build in a question where they will be telling a minor lie.
		And the only person that has the luxury to focus on that, because these involve character evaluation type questions that they would like to look good on, if that is, they're not lying to the big one, if they're telling the truth to the serious question, like did you fire that shot causing the death of so-and-so?
		And then we ask the question about during the first 18 years of your life, did you ever hurt somebody who truly loved and trusted you?
		They will focus on, if they're lying to that big question, they'll focus on that and float right through the small lie.
		On the other hand, if they're telling the truth to the serious question, they will float through that and hit on this minor lie because they want to look good character-wise.
		And so this is the whole basis of the numerical evaluation of photograph charts.
		If they have the luxury to focus on these small, innocuous attempts at deception, that gives them plus points.
		On the other hand, if they show a strong reaction to the relevant question, that gives them minus points.
		And then we have numerical cutoffs, et cetera, that allow us to know when we have conclusive deception or truth or inconclusive in between, if it doesn't make either one of the cutoffs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Rick in Gainesville, Florida asks, hey, Art, ask what he thinks of Curlian photography.
		In Forstee's school, his book was considered bogus by the faculty.
		Any formal concurrence in respected journals at all?
		Sentience in plans?
		He's kind of stretching the definition.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, now, was the second item you mentioned about Curlian photography or about my studies?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that was the first one, actually.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, that, for example, is pretty controversial, right?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, Curlian photography, I've had people in my lab that have attempted that, where they cut out part of the plant and then they use a kind of Tesla coil arrangement where it sparks and shows up.
		And I believe it was Thelma Moss, I believe it was, in Los Angeles, the university there that did a lot of work on that.
		And I think the thing they had to be careful of is there wasn't some kind of contamination from where the whole leaf did rest on a plate.
		So I'm not an expert in that, but I've always showed interest in it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, and his final complaint was about sentience.
		That is a very strong word, sentience in plants.
		You did jump to that word and said, no, it's right.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		No, in fact, we almost had that as a subtitle for the book, but instead of biocommunication with plants, living foods, and human cells, we were going to use the word sentient, and we were not that sure it would be so meaningful to a lot of people.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		You know, because it is a profound word, but we certainly evaluated it carefully and felt it safe to use.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So a lot of people you feel might have passed it by because they didn't know what sentience is.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, they may not clearly understand what sentience is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's worth part of a show all by itself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We won't do that.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so there's a picture on the website, our website, of these two sets of plants, which is incredibly striking.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you know, the Fate magazine stuff, showing the photograph of one plant having...
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Was this the work of Dorothy Rotowicks on music and plants?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		I heard that was on your website.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is.
		And one of these plants is being, you know, just nice classical music, and the other one has acid rock.
		And the one with acid rock, the plants are bent over, they're brown, they're dying, they're in severe plant distress.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, Dorothy Ritalik that started all this music in plants was a friend of mine.
		She passed away several years ago.
		But in fact, I have an unpublished book of hers, a manuscript.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		Her second book.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		And the thing that I used to, my only complaint with her is that they really had to double-blind the experiment to where the consciousness of the researcher didn't contaminate the experiment.
		Because if you have a bunch of people running that experiment that hate classical music, it may not be the music that bothers the plant.
		It may be the negative attitude of the experimenter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that could be.
		It could be.
		So they did not have those.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		She never did have a chance to do a follow-up of that before she passed away.
		But I mean, that would be my only criticism.
		But she was playing classical music.
		I guess it would be sitar and so forth, some of the instruments that were more classical.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what do you believe?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, if the experiment was done in an absolutely pristine manner, would you think we would still get these results?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		These would have to be sound chambers that were, you know, where the experimenter didn't even know the kind of music that was being played at the time.
		It would have to be run by a programmer and automated.
		That would be the only way you'd get to the bottom of that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		All right.
		Now we're going to stumble into one that just blows me away.
		Yogurt.
		Yogurt bacteria.
		Is yogurt bacteria honestly sentient?
		It says here it can prioritize.
		Now, this is really getting down the street, Cleve.
		Yogurt bacteria.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		The yogurt bacteria, I found sort of accidentally back in New York when I worked late at night and a lot of times I'd forget to eat dinner the night before and didn't want to go out too early the next morning in the Times Square area.
		I had a bunch of yogurt containers with yogurt in the refrigerator in the lab.
		And this particular time when I had a tone generator hooked to a plant just doing long-term monitoring because, again, to save the chart paper and not always having to be looking at the meter.
		And I took a container of yogurt out and I stuck the spoon to the bottom of the yogurt to stir up the strawberry jam.
		And the tone generator just went crazy in the next room.
		So this told me that something was going on and the only thing that had changed was I started to stir the jam from the bottom of the yogurt up.
		And I had no idea at that time that there were live living bacteria in yogurt.
		There are two friendly kinds of bacteria in commercial yogurt.
		And so I got my books out on dairy bacteriology and so forth, and I figured, well, there's got to be a way that I can electrode the yogurt.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Unless I'm wrong, Cleve, I believe that when a doctor finishes giving you a regime of very strong antibiotics of some sort, that they then recommend many times that you eat yogurt to recolonize the important bacteria in your stomach.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		And that's interesting, you know, because that means that the bacteria has a capability of transmuting into another form of bacteria.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Apparently so, yes.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, because I've heard that also, because when you're on antibiotic, that's going to kill the yogurt because that is live bacteria.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		But anyway, when I heard this, I figured out a way to fill a little 5-milliliter test tube with the yogurt using a little stem and filling from the bottom up and then putting the Goldwire electrodes in the yogurt.
		And I've got hundreds of hours of monitoring where everyone that would visit the lab, I would use the sample of yogurt to monitor the events going on in the area.
		Then I would use split-screen technology where I'd have one camera on the audience or the group that was visiting and then the other camera over the chart drive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Cleve, one quick question.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did your friends and family ever think that you were losing your mind?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		I'm not sure.
		Most of them have passed away before they had a chance to know about it.
		I have one living relative, an 85-year-old sister.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What's Cleve doing now?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, he's testing the reaction and prioritization of some yogurt we've got here.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, yogurt is a fantastic, sensitive monitor of human consciousness.
		That I am very certain of.
		And when two people are debating with each other, when one has the idea of something they want to say to score against the other, just the imagery coming to the mind will create the reaction, and the words come out from the person after.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then what CBS should do from now on, next presidential debate, in fact, would be to have a monitor in some yogurt.
		And just while the debate's going on, just monitor the yogurt.
		Let the yogurt decide.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		That would be very interesting.
		The yogurt would at least show, well, we won't get that involved in the politics.
		All my yogurt is non-political.
		Listen to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Prioritize.
		Let's get that out of the way.
		What do you mean by that?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Prioritizing is the equivalent of the focus of psychological set with humans.
		In other words, if one thing is going on that's more important, the cells will focus on that at the expense of the other, where they ordinarily would show to the other.
		I had an example in the book on that where I had the American Polygraph Association was visiting San Diego, and I hosted a visit to my lab where several hundred of them were crowded in this lab here in San Diego.
		And I thought, well, this is going to be just totally chaotic, because I always felt that I needed to have a very controlled laboratory environment for something to show.
		But before they got so crowded I couldn't even move around the lab, well, I balanced in a test tube of yogurt and just let it run.
		And to show that at least there are some squiggles and wiggles on the tracing, it was tied into something I had hooked up.
		And I thought, well, I wonder if I can get some kind of a reaction out of this if I take the syringe that I used to fill this test tube still had some yogurt in it.
		And I was about 15 feet away from the electrodeed sample, and I squirted some of the balance of that yogurt from the syringe into a mixed drink.
		It was a vodka tonic, the tail-ended vodka tonic drink.
		And there was just a huge reaction from the electrodeed sample.
		And this, again, showed that despite the chaos that was going on with all of the polygraph examiners, their wives and kids that were visiting the lab, that the yogurt was still able to tune in to another sample that came from the same source.
		And when something happened to that other sample, showed reaction at a distance.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God, I've been dumped in a drink.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so this is what I call prioritizing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, I see what you mean, though, and I see what the control was there.
		That's really, really interesting.
		Cleve, what should all, I mean, if all of this is true, then what does it mean in terms of how we should prioritize or treat our environment, meaning plants and animals and all things around us that we didn't think had the kind of connection that you're saying things do have?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, I've always been interested in the Gaia hypothesis.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Are you familiar with that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead through it.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		And James Lovelock in England is the one that sort of fosters that, and Lynn Margolis over here.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		And Lynn Margolis was married to Carl Sagan for about, I guess, 10 years, which I have to give her a lot of credit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		For staying with him for 10 years?
unidentified		Yes.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		But anyway, the Gaia hypothesis related to the world being one great big living entity.
		And it had self-regulating capability.
		And of course, it had to have communication that had that kind of self-regulation.
		And so I believe, again, I believe very much in that concept.
		And I think we have to be far more careful in how we handle the environment.
		This business of somebody saying, well, if you cut down the trees, you don't have to worry about forest fires, that kind of stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		So then we would have to really modify the way we think about it.
		Let me go even a little further.
		Now, you've done plants.
		What about what we think of as inanimate objects?
		If, I don't know, you know, my wood desk, other things around us that are made up in a certain molecular way, maybe it's crazy, but it's not that much crazier than asking about plants.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't think it is.
		Really, I think that once we were to find a way to be able To properly electrode these so-called inanimates, that we would see that there is something going on there.
		The closest I've been able to come to that is to take some filings of wood and even metal and so forth and sprinkle them into some agar-agar compound.
		And then agar agar or agar-ager, whichever you want to call it, will firm up as a gel.
		And by taking a plug of that agar-ager and put electrodes on each side, I'm able to get little wiggly lines showing that something is coming out of that.
		But I don't get the real meaningful free-flowing tracings that I get when I'm hooking up biological materials.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, let me throw this one at you, Cleve.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right now, there are a lot of people concerned about Mount St. Helens.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, a volcano is a big deal.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it has the potential to, oh, I don't know, if it goes off the wrong way, wipe out a lot of land and trees and people and everything around it, just kaboom.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		It did that once.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It sure did.
		Now, I'm not saying it's going to do it again, but I would think, you know, I'm talking to friends who have animals like dogs in the area behaving very, very, very strangely in that area right now.
		And I wonder if something as big from our Earth as a volcanic eruption with all the pressures going on under the Earth.
		Well, gee, you would think that if you had electrodes hooked up to some plants and trees in the area, they'd just be going berserko.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		I would be very interested in having an opportunity to do that, like the big redwoods and so forth up in California.
		Absolutely.
		I know that I think this ties in a little bit to some of the material that is done by Rupert Sheldrake.
		I know you had him on your show.
		You betcha.
		And I think that I'm more informed of his research than perhaps he was of mine, so I'm not complaining, but he didn't show too much insight when it came up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, he should indeed be reading about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		So I admire his work, though.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		His work, of course, with the dog, you know, the dog going to the door when the owner decided to come home from wherever the owner was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's absolutely all connected, Clear.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		That's fascinating.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's all connected.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're talking about the same thing.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In all these different areas, there's no question about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I would think that you two researchers would get together and have a lot to share.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, I'm going over to London this Thursday, in fact.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		There's a, they call it the Living the Field Conference 2004.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		And there are going to be a bunch of people.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Ed Mitchell's going to be over there, the astronaut.
unidentified		Oh, yes.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		And Dr. Raymond Moody, you know, who's, I'm not sure you've had some of these people in the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know all of them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have some.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Stan Krippner's and others, Stanley Krippner's.
		And there are a whole bunch of people who are going to be over there.
		And they have on their little promotion thing, they have Living the Field Conference 2004, a once-in-a-lifetime chance to see the icons of consciousness research in the world.
		That's why I put in such good company.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you are an icon.
		And they are icons, indeed, of consciousness research, which I think someday will be known to be the most powerful force in the universe.
		Someday.
		Mark my words.
		By the time they discover it, I'll be long gone.
		But mark them anyway.
unidentified		Knights in white satin, never reaching the end.
		Letters I've written, never meaning to send.
		Beauty had always been with these eyes before.
		Beauty had always been with these eyes before.
		The mist that cross the window hides the light.
		But nothing hides the color of the lights that shine.
		Beauty letters it be so fine.
		Look how dry you rise.
		Beauty.
		We are so tired of all the darkness in our lives With no more angry words to say to come alive Get into a car and drive to the other side
		talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
		From west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach ART by calling your in-country sprint access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Every now and then, Ramona hits me with a real zinger, and she sure did this time.
		And it was sort of mixed up with something I said about the volcano.
		In a moment.
		Are you Did you know that in the last rather minor eruption of Mount St. Helens, a lot of the seismographic equipment, sensors and such at the top got blown to smithereens?
		so they're now gone.
		And staying with that theme for a second, my wife said during the break, you know, what if you were monitoring all the redwoods all the way around Mount St. Helens?
		I wonder if the redwoods, number one, would act like a seismograph, and number two, if the trees, for example, might understand which side of the mountain was going to blow out.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		This is really a good thought because my aim is just to be able to electrode one of those redwoods.
		But once we worked out the technology and we had it telemetered back to a central location, and we had different trees located at various locations, I think that could turn out to be very interesting.
		Because, you know, those trees, some of them are, what, hundreds and hundreds of years old.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		They're a lot smarter than probably most of the humans.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, let's ask Cleve, do you believe that the trees, if you had an arrangement, I mean, I'm asking you to guess now, to hypothesize, but that you would be able to, in the end, find out that you had detected from the trees an understanding of which side was about to blow?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, I would certainly think it's possible.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		You know, as far out as some of my stuff seems, that's a lot closer in.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is.
		And you think a tree on the side of a volcano would have a very big investment in what's about to happen.
		You know, major things, rumblings under the earth, constant earthquakes and all this.
		I mean, that's big time.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		There were acres of trees flattened by that last eruption.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		So perhaps some setups would be valuable.
		I'm surprised USGS hasn't contacted you.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		I think they go to their scientific advisors and they don't get any further than that when they're interested in this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Cleveland, let's say somebody at home right now, and there are a lot of technical types of people who listen to this program.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I'm kind of teching myself.
		What instruments could we use at home?
		And I don't mean the average person, but somebody with some test instruments, you know, voltometers and scopes or whatever they might have lying around.
		A lot of people have that kind of stuff.
		Could they do something?
		If so, what do they do?
		How do they do it?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, one of the things I might mention that people can get quite a bit of information if they tap into our website at primaryperception.com.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		I think that's listed in your indexing of the shows.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's right.
		We have a link to it for now.
		But that'll be gone.
		So it's primaryperception.com.
		Perception.com.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		And it's a very active website.
		And Francie Prouse, my editor and publisher of the book, Primary Perception, does a lot of work on that.
		And she has a newsletter, all kinds of bioweb organizations and so forth.
		Somebody that's really interested can get more involved.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That said, give me outline an experiment I could try at home.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, again, your initial question was about the instrumentation.
		And this is a problem.
		It's so frustrating because we get so many inquiries saying, how can I get a hold of instrumentation?
		Because they don't, you know, any good EEG type equipment will show this.
		But again, who has EEG type equipment laid around?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, exactly.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		And strangely enough, when I graduated from the galvanic skin response testing of plants to what the Russians did right away in replicating my work, they went right to EEG type equipment.
		Now, the difference between this, one is supposed to measure resistance, and the EEG equipment does a high degree of magnification of very subtle signals that come out of the, in this case, the plant.
		And, you know, the Scientology people that have the so-called E-meter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, that E-meter is a very sensitive indicator if you want to get some early work by hooking that to each side of a leaf.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is that technically?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		It's a galvanic skin response, very sensitive galvanic skin response.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But basically, it's measuring resistance, right?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, supposedly measuring resistance, yes.
		I challenge a little bit the basic concept of resistance because if you had a meter and you were trying to figure out the resistance in the circuit, you wouldn't want any other sources of electricity in the pathway other than what you're sending through.
		And yet when you're measuring plants or even humans, why there are thousands of sources of electricity, every cell has the capability of discharging electricity.
		So I think that the GSR probably is accidentally picking up the cellular discharge.
		And when that is added to whatever is being placed through, the signal you're placing through ordinarily to measure resistance, it only appears that there's a drop in resistance.
		But it really could be also that it's picking up electrical charge on the way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So to properly do this requires an EEG?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, EEG would be the very best way to handle it, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But is there any little experiment somebody with a Volto meter could, is there some way at home?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, when you talk about an ohmeter, you're not getting the kind of sensitivity you would need to do this.
		Because these are very, very, it's a high magnification of very, very subtle signals.
		Now, most of the work is microvolt range.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Got it.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		And with eggs, though, the signals are actually millivolt range.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are they, really?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no, that's intriguing right there.
		Higher with eggs.
		Why?
		Well, I don't know.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		It's a pretty powerful signal.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		When you look in the primary perception book, you'll see some samples of when I first hooked up eggs, there's all kinds of cyclic activity going on inside the egg, aside from the primary perception capability.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so when we make our breakfast in the morning, when we crack the egg into the bowl or into the pan, is it screaming?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, my experience has been when somehow you're sort of threatening the well-being, in this case of the egg, if you think in terms, as you do it, if you think, well, I'm going to break this egg, I think the egg goes into a protective stance.
		It's very similar to a state of shock.
		But when you do it without thinking and without any pre-imaging of what you're going to do, then it never knows what's coming.
unidentified		Yeah.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		You know, one of the experiments that I did, in fact, I even have pictures of the charts in the book, is one time I had forgotten to eat dinner the night before, and it was too early to go out in Times Square.
		And so I had all of these eggs on hand that I was doing research with, and I thought, I'm not going to starve to death with all these eggs.
		So I said, but I've got to do a scientific experiment as part of it.
		So one of the eggs was electroded to the recording equipment.
		And the egg was placed in a lead-shielded box and so forth.
		I took all the precautions.
		That was egg number one.
		Now, egg number two and three, I dropped into a pan of boiling water on a hot plate in the lab.
		And you can see that when I dropped those two eggs in about three seconds apart, you can see the large reactions on the chart that was being made at the time from the other egg that was not being in any way directly disturbed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So there was egg empathy.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
		So, you know, one of the things I think that with people that have been taught to say blessings before consuming foods, I think that this is...
		Well, it's not scaring the food, it's notifying the food and allowing it to go into this defensive posture to where it doesn't feel the pain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, my best friend.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		I think that's the very basis, very likely, of saying blessings.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But still, it's the long kiss goodbye.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it's notification that, hey, jig is up.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Yes, absolutely.
		So I think that degree of insensitivity is, you know, under the bacteria section in the book, I have an example of bacteria communicating with another kind of bacteria.
		And this was done at my first lab location here in San Diego.
		It involved a long one-story wooden building.
		And in order not to have to keep running up to the front of the building where I had the chart recording equipment, I put pip switches down, one in each room, all the way down the length of this complex of rooms.
		And what I would do is push the switch when I was doing various things, and that would automatically mark the chart up in the front of the web.
		And when I did this, and then I started to transfer the information about what was going on when I hit the switch, I found some amazing things.
		I had a Siamese cat at the time that got hooked on chicken and wouldn't eat anything else.
		At least the cat had convinced me that it wouldn't eat anything else.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It can happen.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		So my partner's wife would roast the chicken and send in the chicken with my partner in the polygraph school.
		And I'd pull off a little of this roasted chicken each day to feed the cat, and I would put it under a heating lamp.
		And in this particular occasion, when I disturbed the, after the chicken carcass got pretty old after being in the refrigerator a number of days, pulling off some of the chicken each day, there was a bacterial buildup on the chicken, and I was disturbing this bacteria when I pulled chunks of it off, and the yogurt that was being tested, another kind of bacteria up in the front room, was showing this very, very dramatically.
		And the charts on that are in the book.
		And then you will see that when I put the, after I got done disturbing the bacteria on the surface of this chicken, I put it under the heating lamp, and then there was another big surge of reactivity that showed up on the yogurt at the other end of the lab.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All of this means so much, Cleve.
		But, you know, it's, God, it's so incredible.
		And it means so much.
		But we don't know what, do we?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, it means that, for instance, plants are very much attuned to all kinds of things, all kinds of life forms in the immediate environment.
		One time I went up to Yale to give a talk.
		The linguistics department had invited me up to talk on the research.
		And I took a polygraph up with me.
		And after my talk, I had some of the graduate students come up to the second floor of this building where they built the guest instructors.
		And I let them hook up a leaf and bounce it in on the polygraph on the galvanic skin response.
		And there, they didn't have a plant available.
		The buildings are covered with the leaves of ivy.
		The Ivy Institution gets its name that way.
		So they plucked the leaf, brought it in, bounced it in on the polygraph.
		And then I said, well, do you have any insects where we can try to show some interaction between the insect and the plant?
		Because I've noticed that so often in my lab.
		They said, well, technically it's not an insect, but we have loads of spiders here in New Haven.
		So they went to the corner, up in the corner of one of the rooms and got this spider.
		They put the spider on the table.
		And when they surrounded the spider with their hands and didn't allow it to escape, when they took their hands away and the spider made up its mind to make a run for it, there was a huge reaction on the plant just prior to the spider taking off.
		And they did that several times in a row.
		Then one of them said, well, let's let the spider go down this carpeted staircase going down to the first floor, and then we'll send another student down to see if they can find it in this darkened hallway.
		And you talk about an interesting exercise for these graduate students at a prestigious university like Yale.
		One of them is going down saying, I don't see it yet.
		And the other one is, well, the line up here is pretty straight on the leaf.
		And then the person says, don't see it yet.
		And well, I'm getting a little reaction up here.
		And then, oh, I see it.
		When the person found the spider, there's a huge reaction on the polygraph up at the top of the stairs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Jason in Chandler, North Carolina, writes in an email, he said before the show.
		He says, for instance, when insects chew a tomato plant's leaves, genetic signals, he says, are triggered that tell the plant to release chemicals such as methyl jasminate.
		Now, I wonder if that's true across the board, and could that be what's being measured in that case?
		In other words, there is a reaction, a chemical reaction that's being used.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		But here you have something that's really disturbing.
		For instance, if you had, let's say, that leaf electrode at the very time that this was going on, there would be an alternate explanation of why you may be getting disturbances.
		But, you know, there's some several years back, there was a good bit of publicity about groves of trees, where if the groves of trees at one location got the blight, the grove of trees over the hills someplace put up their defense mechanisms against that blight even before it got there.
		And, of course, they were so sure it had to be some kind of a chemical messenger that caused this, and they never could identify it, but it's very easily explainable by the primary perception idea.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're saying this has been noticed then totally independently of the work you do in, for example, fields where you just said there's a notification that goes on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So this is all independent of your work.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I mean they may not have the same explanation.
		In fact, they may be still looking for explanations that could be easily They're looking for more of a conventional kind of signal.
		And as I understand it, the only way they were trying to, they were at least planning to try to get to the bottom of this is to have two enclosed chambers and have something in one chamber that would be equivalent to administering the blight to some plants and then have a closed closed connection over to the other chamber with filters on it to try to filter out what this chemical messenger would be.
		And I never heard any of the results of that, so I don't think they had any success.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's true.
		Maybe they need to put matters into your hands.
		I don't know.
		Listen, going back to the egg for a second.
		So if I have this straight end, if I don't think two things about it, I mean, it's just an automatic thing.
		I go in, I'm hungry, I crack eggs and make breakfast.
		And I don't even think two things about it.
		Well, then that egg isn't going to freak out at all because it's never going to see it coming.
		Is that true?
		Or are you?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		No, I think because it doesn't see it coming is when you're going to get the reaction.
		Oh.
		In other words, but where it somehow has a notification through your imagery of what you're going to do, then it goes into this defensive stance that's very similar to feigning.
		It takes about 20, maybe 20 minutes for it to come back.
		You know, after I did that initial observation of the egg that I mentioned where I dropped the eggs for breakfast into the boiling water while I was testing one, I thought, golly, this should be a good repeatable experiment.
		So I spent about, I think, two weeks at least making some automation equipment.
		I had an old turntable off of a phonograph, and it still was on this roller-bearing idea.
		It would rotate very easily.
		And then I put some corn plasters on it so the eggs wouldn't roll off, and I could get about 10 eggs all the way around this thing.
		And then I had it worked out.
		This is before I, you know, you can do it easily with computers now, but at six, seven, and eight minute intervals, the turntable would turn.
		A little mechanical boot would kick the egg down a trough, trip a switch, and go into a deep fry of boiling water.
		And I thought, wow, I should be able to get lots of repeatable data.
		You know, I got 10 eggs that you're going to be doing this.
		So I put time delay switches on it, and I did everything where I could leave the lab.
		And the interesting part is when I came back, I would have, when the first egg went down the chute, I would have a large reaction.
		And then all the other eggs just flatlined.
		In other words, they were talking to each other.
		The chip went down, that was it.
		The signal went out.
		So I had about 10 hard-boiled eggs, but one reaction when the first egg went down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then the kindest thing one can do for an egg is to tell it what's coming, give it a chance to pass out, and then get its little head cracked, right?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Right, that's it.
		The same way with the ingestion of food.
		The idea that you're going to eat the food and you're thankful for the source of the food and so on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes, yes, yes.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		For the content of the blessing, the idea.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Send it into shock and then mercifully turn it into an omelet or whatever.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		You know, I had one of these e-meters on a plane once because I was going to give a talk someplace.
		And so while I was sitting in the seat, I took the e-meter out just before they were going to serve a meal.
		That's back when they served some meals on planes.
		And this poor guy that was caught in the inside window, he couldn't get away.
		I pulled out and put this e-meter on the tray.
		And then when they'd served the salad, I said, let me put some lettuce in between these electrodes.
		And I bounced in the lettuce, and the thing showed a little free-flowing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll tell you right now, Cleve, you can't do that on an airplane today.
unidentified		Oh, you would dare that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're going to meet the Sky Marshal and you're going to go way out of the way.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		I'd be in deep trouble.
		But anyway, I told the person, I said, now watch, when the people start eating their salads that are being served them, watch what happens.
		And so the needle froze, it flatlined.
		And then I said, well, now wait till they pick the trays up again, and you'll see it come back to life.
		It came back to life again.
		And this poor guy is caught.
		He's a captive audience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, how did he come away?
unidentified		I'm not sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you see, I'm not sure how I'm coming away from this myself.
		Clean Baxter is my guest.
		I'm Mark Bell.
		This is Coast to Coast AM in the nighttime.
unidentified		This is Coast to Coast AM.
		Subscribe to After Dark.
		Call Toll Free.
		1-888-727-5505.
		A little driving on a Saturday night.
		Come walk me.
		Gonna die a little day away.
		Genie will see.
		Show a smile.
		It's a living thing.
		It's a terrible thing to lose.
		It's a giving thing.
		What a terrible thing to lose.
		If you believe this is what you conceive on your worst day I'm making a sign Are you in line when you look back in time to the past day?
		I'm making a sign And you, you're a secret sign Don't you do it, don't you do it I'm making a sign And so they ever think They'll tell you about day two's
		To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Art Bell from East to the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
		From West to the Rockies, call ART at 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach Art Bell by calling your in-country sprint access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Indeed so.
		Good morning.
		Cleve Baxter is my guest, and he's really the father of the research that you're hearing about right now.
		Plants that communicate with each other through time and space instantaneously.
		Plants that remember what was done to them.
		Plants that digest information and remember it.
		That's something incredible if you think about it.
unidentified		anyway we're going to go to the problems with cleve baxter in a moment so I'm curious.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In the Baxter household, Cleve, you know, like when you serve up dinner, you don't serve up the salad with a screaming meter attached to it, do you?
unidentified		No, no, I don't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, good.
		I'd like to allow the audience to ask questions.
		You know, your family must have thought you strange for a while, though, huh?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, probably.
		I know that when my parents, when I lived back in New Jersey, they gave me money to take a train from New Jersey down to Texas, Texas University.
		I'd been watching too many Westerns, I think.
		When I went down to New York, they had a little train that went from the middle of northern New Jersey to Hoboken, and then you took a ferry across to one of the big train stations.
		And I thought, well, this isn't going to be any fun.
		So I took the train money, and I went up in the Bronx, and I put a down payment on a motorcycle, which I'd never been on in my life.
		And they taught me how to run the thing on one of their training three-wheelers.
		Then they put me on the two-wheeler after they took my money for the down payment, pushed me out over Pulaski Skyway.
		And by the time I got down to Texas, I really knew how to ride a motorcycle.
		My parents didn't know about that for several years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And apparently a lot of other things.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		There's a whole string of things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time Color Line.
		You're on the air with Cleve Baxter.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning.
		I don't have a question.
		I just have a piece of information to offer as an extension of the research that Mr. Baxter has already uncovered.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What would that be?
unidentified		I believe it was Ed Mitchell.
		If not him, one of the astronauts in the time of the early orbiting experiments that were going on, one of them wrote a book about all of this kind of thing.
		It may have been Ed Mitchell.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		It was Ed Mitchell.
unidentified		And in it, he describes that cells were put into orbit from some origin on a person or something on Earth.
unidentified		And whenever anything was done to the original cells on Earth, they registered other reaction in space.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was this a NASA authorized experiment?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no.
unidentified		No, it was something he did on his own.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On his own, okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, I'll tell you, if that's true, then that means Ed Mitchell was on to everything we're talking about way before a lot of people.
unidentified		Yes, if you were to get his book, you'd find it fascinating because it goes a step beyond what they were doing with mere space orbiting.
unidentified		He's interested in all forms of metaphysical activity.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Ed Mitchell is going to be at the conference I'm going to be attending this Thursday over in London.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there you are.
unidentified		You might want to check with him on that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm sure that Ed probably will talk about that as part of what he talks about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You think, Cleve?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm not sure.
		The information I was aware of is I think he was using the Ryan Zen card, Zenner cards or something, with the waves and the squares and doing some experiments when he was on his space trip with somebody on Earth.
		I hadn't heard about the cells stuff, so that fascinates me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would be something you'd want to really ask about, because that would mean he was on to this awfully early.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wild Carline, you're on the air with Cleve Baxter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, this is Larry in Fort Lauderdale, Florida.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yo.
unidentified		I had two quick questions.
unidentified		The first one is, do you think that mole, household mole, in any way has the same type of communication and feelings and perhaps even a sinister one in ganging up on people?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, that's not such a bad question, really.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Mold is an interesting organism, isn't it, Cleve?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, mold should you should be able to test mold.
		In other words, if you put a collection of it in a test tube, I feel very certain you're going to get meaningful signals.
		Because We get that from yeast, we get it from bacteria from an aquarium just by taking a sample of the gravel in the bottom of an aquarium, which has lots and lots of bacteria on it, putting electrodes in that test tube of gravel, we can get reactions.
		We pipe it into the EG of events going on inside the aquarium, one test chasing another and so forth.
		So I would suspect very strongly that mold would be very reactive.
unidentified		It seems the most sinister of everything that would drive somebody out of a house and make them sick on the way out.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, listen, once you get...
unidentified		The other question was, if you're out there having to cut your hedges and trimming trees and stuff like that, is there an equivalence of saying grace before you have to take an office?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Before you commit virtual genocide.
unidentified		Yes.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		I'm told by people that have looked into this that as long as you envision that you're doing this for the good of the lawn, the overall good, there's not a problem.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		In other words, it's understandable, apparently, that the trimming of the hedge and the lawn, et cetera, is for the overall good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you sure this isn't, you're not just saying this part of it to make us all feel better about what we'd feel otherwise?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, I know that the women have been talking to plants for years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Oh, of course.
		And the men sort of sneak out at night and talk to their tomatoes and so forth to make them grow better than the neighbors' tomatoes.
		So I just heard hundreds of anecdotal stuff that come from these people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wonder how many men secretly go out and talk to their tomatoes.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, sometimes they don't admit it.
		You know, it's interesting that the years that I've been doing this research, I have scientists come up all the time and say, you know, the work you did back in the 60s and early 70s back in New York really changed their lives.
		And of course, it isn't automatic that they're going to feel that they can travel with this information because it could hurt them.
		In other words, on grant requests and so forth, if they sound like they're a little too far out, how it affected them personally are the stories that I get from it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, so you need some grant money.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Who would normally, for what you're doing, possibly contribute grant money?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've been wondering about that for a long time.
		I've had some modest grants given me, but right, most all of it's been self-funding now.
		I just have been dumping my own money in this for years.
		And also all the proceeds from this book, Primary Perception, goes to further research.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no kidding.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then, of course, you've got your lie detector work that you do as well.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I jokingly say that my research with biocommunication is built on lies, but it's the lies that people tell and get tested on to pay the bill.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, very good point.
		Very good line.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Cleve Baxter.
		Hi.
unidentified		Yeah, this is Bernard in Moorhead, Minnesota.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		And I'm listening to you at a K-Fire in North Dakota there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Way to go.
unidentified		And he was talking about talking to the plants and doing all these tests and stuff.
		Well, I had a couple plants that I picked up, one in a garage sale and one at work.
		And they were both dead, just barely living.
		And I did the same thing.
		I took it home, babied it, fed it, watered it, talked to it, played music for it, and they both grew, came back to life, you know.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		So I can see that I've heard a lot of stories similar to that.
		Also, I've heard stories about people that have threatened the plant.
		If they didn't do better, they're going to throw it out.
unidentified		Exactly.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wait a minute.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Wait a minute.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did that get action if they cleave?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It did?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, get off your dying dump.
unidentified		Yeah, if you don't give, you won't start living.
unidentified		I'm going to take you to the dump.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I've had a number of people tell me experiences.
		Yeah, absolutely.
		You've got to get down to earth with them.
unidentified		Oh, gee, Cleve.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Another interesting thing, too.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		People have told me that they have bad experiences because when they go traveling abroad and something of that nature or gone for any length of time, that they have people come in to water their plants.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		And they give them plenty of good care, but the plants don't do well.
		And when they come back, they find them in pretty bad shape, even though the care has been okay.
		And I said, well, all you need to do is take photographs of those plants with you, and then wherever you are, just look at those photographs several times a day and give positive thought toward them.
		And you're going to find that the plants, you're tuned right into them, and they're going to do much better.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Remote plant nurturing.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Yes, absolutely.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		And I've had some good results from those suggestions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so then all of this then is also tied, Cleve, into the prayer, isn't it?
		They've really done some amazing studies, as you well know, about things prayed for, things not prayed for.
		It's repeatable.
		It happens again and again and again and again.
		It's got to have meaning.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Right, I feel certain of that.
		It's just unhandy information for some scientific disciplines, and they're a little slow to pick up on it.
		And yet there's so much more they could do, how they could expand their research if they would just grasp on this concept of the bio communication, as far as biology is concerned.
		You know, there's a field, and I have a book on their research, and they call themselves, well, it's electrophysiology.
		Now, the electrophysiologists are ones that are hooking up instrumentation for all kinds of conventional reasons to life forms.
		Now, they have to be sweeping so much stuff under the rug, you know, because there's no way they could be missing this with the instrumentation they're using.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So what are they doing?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		They certainly don't bring it up, but it just makes me think that, you know, they're using EEG equipment for the conventional brain waves and all kinds of things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then they're attributing it to what?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, they use it in regard to event-related brain potentials, they call it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		And They're trying to see if there are certain parts of the brain that relate to memory, et cetera, and so forth.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		But they have to be seeing the things that they're discarding as artifacts have to be the very things that I'm seeing all the time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Cleve Baxter.
		Good morning.
unidentified		I'm sorry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I said you're on the air and good morning.
		Both of those have, well, one has meaning anyway.
		You're on the air.
unidentified		Yeah, it's a good show you got on tonight.
unidentified		And I'd like to ask your guest a question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fire away.
unidentified		Do you possibly think this might be some type of evidence or could lead to some type of evidence to the concept of omnipresent intelligence within the universe that's operating outside of the time-space continuum and being segregated within it?
unidentified		And I'll listen to the answer off the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, God.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, in a way, you're talking about a universal intelligence, and you're probably talking about something that goes far beyond this planet which we're all wrapped up in, but this could be just one minor place, the funny farmer of the universe or something.
		We don't know where God's hanging out.
		This concept of omniscience, omnipresence, and omnipotence, the three characteristics that are attributes of God have to involve biocommunication.
		So I think it ties very much into some kind of, when you think beyond this planet, I think you're probably right that there's a universal kind of intelligence.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time caller line, you're on the air with Cleve Baxter and Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		How you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doing fine, sir.
unidentified		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Ohio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ohio, all right?
unidentified		Yeah, my name's Bill.
		And I just wanted to give a little statement and see what you guys might think about it.
		What I wanted to say was that, you know, aside of all the research and everything, I'm a Christian person, so I believe in God.
		And I just want to say that, you know, I've always believed that everything on the planet, all of us, are all connected, you know, and though an egg might not think like a human does or whatever, that we all are connected in some way or another.
		So therefore, you would have reactions, you know, to each living thing, you know, from another living thing.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's exactly what the program is all about.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		I guess we're talking about a universal on the back of the book you have in front of you, you'll see an expansion of Gene Houston and Deepak Chopra where they talk about that great thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see it, yes.
		People should pick this up.
		Where is your book available now?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, you can get it from Amazon.com and also from the website, primaryperception.com.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But the name of the book is Primary Perception.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so a lot of people are going to be hunting for that.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		This is my one and only book.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		I've had a lot of stuff written about my book.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What finally drove you to writing it?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, I just turned 80 and I thought I better.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you're right from that.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		So this is sort of autobiographical.
		It goes from the very beginning and it builds systematically on how, first what made me weird enough to spot this as far as my background is concerned, and then it goes progressively every step of the way, how one thing led to another.
		And it lists the, there is reproduced in the book authentic copies of all the charts concerned, the important charts, the EEG readings and so forth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's all here, indeed.
		And Cleve, you did mention you're 80.
		Where do you want your research to go so that when you're gone, it's not?
		Aside from the fact that you've got a book, that's great.
		But somebody's got to pick up the mantle.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, this is one of the things.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		I have a nonprofit research foundation, which I've had since 1965, in fact, where any donations are tax-exempt, but I need to get a significant amount where I can have some kind of a center because all of the material and the charts and the files and the videotapes and so forth, I'm not sure what will happen to them if something happens to me because there is no plan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, well, if I were to ask you, which I just did, who would you want this research to go to?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What would you be most pleased with?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, it would have to be someone that would be interested enough that had an active research facility or something of that nature where you could be sure that all the material you gave to them would be safely stored.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, at an academic research facility at a college level, something like that.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, if the college people could really get involved to the point where they would want to do that, it would be a kind of library, a science library type situation.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		So I'm open to suggestions about that because I'm starting to think along the lines of wanting to preserve the material that's been accumulated over the years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, not only that, but to continue the research.
		I mean, all of this, if true, and it seems like it really is true, is so important to mankind, it just can't be forgotten.
		That's all there is to it.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think that's why I've dedicated my, you know, a good bit of my life to that and a lot of personal finances.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		I think it's very, very important.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By the way, I really appreciate your signing the book for me.
		That was really nice.
		Okay, no problem.
		You know, during all the years that I've been doing this program, Cleve, I've been hearing stories about all of this.
		And I hate to say it, but it's almost like when you hear it, it's almost at the myth level for a lot of listeners.
		They think of it as kind of, oh, they're talking about a big myth.
		You know, plants reacting, thinking, being sentient in some way, please.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		It's no myth.
		It is no myth.
		I'm not naive at all, and the evidence that I have, you know, just hundreds of high-quality observations.
		Many of them are anecdotal, but they don't lend themselves to repeatability of the very same thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How have the big important experiments you've done, how has this affected your life?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Has it changed Your life and the way you regard things and plants and everything?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll tell you, I was raised, again, in northern New Jersey, and my father was the superintendent of a Presbyterian Sunday school for 30 years.
		And I had to go to Sunday school and church every Sunday to get that wreath and whatever those little dangling bars are to tell how many years you've done that.
		And I got, I think, up to 14 years in that before I went away to school.
		And I thought to myself, well, gee whiz, you know, let me take 14 years off to see if it makes any difference.
		Because I was attributing many of the things that I'd learned during those early years just to the power of suggestion.
		And then I got associated with someone on a trip I made to the West Coast that was very interested.
		He was from a theosophical family.
		And the theosophical people are sort of an interface between Eastern philosophy and the West.
		And we just talked around the clock and combined my rather extensive experience with hypnosis with his concept of the teachings of theosophy.
		And then when I got to the plant stuff, I thought, well, gee, the scientific community, the first thing I did is I called in scientists from different disciplines to see if they could identify what was going on.
		And when they couldn't, I said, wow, if they've missed this, they could be very wrong about the rest of it, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You bet.
		All right.
		Cleve Baxter is my guest.
		Hold on.
		We're going to go to the poems when you get back.
		From the high desert in the middle of the night, if this isn't fascinating, what is?
		I'm Mark Bell.
unidentified		To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
		From west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach ART by calling your in-country sprint access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, your opportunity to question a legend, Cleve Baxter.
		He's the guy who's done all this research, culminating now in his book, Primary Perception.
		Biocommunication with Plants, Living Foods, and Human Cells.
		i can imagine you wouldn't have a question about all this the Jason from Chandler, North Carolina also wrote, he's fellow sent me in the email.
		In addition to feeling stimuli, plants can also see other plants.
		Most plants see red and blue light as well as far red light, which is a part of the spectrum humans can't see because the plants reflect green light and absorb red and blue light.
		They know they have fewer neighbors when there are fewer red and blue wavelengths in the area.
		This is why plants grow away from each other, he says.
		They avoid competition.
		Cleve, do you think that is true that they see in a way?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm not fully acquainted with that concept, but I think this is a situation where we're using one of the recognizable senses to try to explain how plants do indeed stay away from each other.
		To me, the primary perception communication would probably be, for me, an easier one to understand than the color of the light.
		I know there are some articles that come out recently about how roots will stay away from each other, the root structure underground.
		As they approach each other, they can see where the roots will steer clear by using something like they use for ants, where they have two plates of glass.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's quite remarkable.
		Betty in Calgary, Canada says, hey, Art, I had a Christmas cactus.
		You talked about this, Cleve, one that never bloomed for about six years.
		One day I actually said to it, bloom, damn it, or you're going into the garbage.
		Well, I had a bloom that year, and every year since.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		That's sad.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		You've got to lay the law down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you honestly believe that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, that doesn't matter.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Because it's not your words.
		It's the imagery that helps you formulate your words.
		And even though you may speak them out loud, the plant is picking up the imagery.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's thinking of itself in a trash can.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I've had a number of people give me examples of that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I don't know what that says about life.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not exactly.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		You know, there's another point that I failed to mention, maybe some others too, but how I first discovered the plants were so attuned to human cells, the death of human cells.
		Back in New York City, the laboratory that I was located in was on the fifth floor of this building.
		And Every other floor of the building, there was a restroom.
		And the men's restroom happened to be right on the other side of the wall from the lab.
		And ordinarily, I did most of my stuff at night, but there would be people who wanted to come by during the daytime.
unidentified		Yes.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		And I would show them how to electrode plants, and I would show them the tracings.
		And then I would get these huge reactions.
		And nothing was happening in the lab that would account for that.
		But then I'd hear the flushing on the other side of the wall.
		So in chasing that one down, there are human cells that are excreted with body fluid.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not sure you want to chase that one down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Plenty of room for exploration here before we go.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		This was a tip-off, though, that the human cells and plants were very much attuned to each other.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess.
		First time caller line, your turn with Cleve Baxter.
		Hey.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Howdy there.
unidentified		Fascinating show, gentlemen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		I just wondered if he'd read the Celestine prophecy and some of the research, I'm not sure whether it was fiction, fact-based, based on fiction or the reverse, of where they'd have people sitting in the garden on each corner of a garden and concentrating on the plants and vegetable gardens and such, and they grew faster and more nutritious.
		And then another question was, they did some research, I'm not sure where I read it years ago, where food was cooked with, like you say, as you're thinking about it, with nutrition for the family or love or whatever.
		I'm not sure how they measured the nutrition, but it was of a much higher value than food cooked just with no personal involvement kind of thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Cleve?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's my understanding of the latter point that when a plant is in somewhat of a shock and unprepared for the things that are going to happen, that there are some excretions that are involved that could alter the taste and perhaps the nutrition of the food concerned.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And his first point that...
		know about that cleave the four the four people who would sit on each side of a garden uh...
		causing the vegetables to Have you ever heard of that?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, I hadn't heard of it in conjunction with that particular publication, but if they were to periodically do it and not do it constantly, that would be sufficient.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It should work.
		Good job if you can get it.
		Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Cleve Baxter.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hello, my name's Robert.
		I'd like to share two comments.
		All right.
		The first one is how everything is connected.
		Everything on the planet is alive at the same time.
		And basically, humans, people are the only animals that came away from the awareness of the planet.
		Like this one living entity.
		And we're just separating it from it after birth.
		Yes.
		I'm sorry, I'm nervous.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's okay, but I think I know what you're talking about because the humans seem to be the only one out of the loop, you know?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I guess that's an interesting way to think of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The only ones out of the loop.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Because, you know, I think that people, especially people that are psychic, I think when they're capable of handling the material and the information they learn is when they become back into the loop again.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		You know what I mean?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, your turn with Cleve Baxter.
unidentified		Hi.
		Yes, my name is Aaron.
		I'm listening to in Huntsville, Alabama.
		I'm 1230 WBHP.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		It's an honor to speak with you and to get through.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		And just had a quick question for your caller about plants remembering what happens to them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Is this kind of a short-term memory that they would forget later on?
unidentified		Or is it more of a long-term memory where maybe their molecular structure, their cells, have been altered to always remember for the remainder of their life?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a superb question, sir.
		Cleve, is the memory that they form tested?
		Can you test it and see how long-term it is?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		I would suspect you could do that.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		I'll tell you, what we did as a precaution, though, when I did my initial Brian Shrimp experiment with the plants, is we had to keep bringing in new sets of plants because the plant would remember that nothing did occur when that signal came from the death of the Brian Shrimp.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How far have you gone, though, in testing the length of that memory?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		I haven't.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		This is why we really need to get people involved that would really pursue something like that once they understood that this is a vehicle that could be very valuable for research.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
		There's really a lot more that can be done with this, isn't there?
		Absolutely.
		This is just the bare beginning in a lot of ways.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Cleve Baxter.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Good morning, R. How are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just spiffy.
unidentified		Well, first of all, I want to tell you that your show is the best on the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're kind, thank you.
unidentified		And second of all, I wanted to ask Cleve, I wasn't able to hear the first part of the show, so I don't know if you covered this already, but can the plants tell you how or what they want, and if so, how?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, now, I would imagine that you could develop a system that would enable the plants to do that.
		In other words, if you were to make a continuous recording or even a spot check recording of the plants and had worked out the signals with them as to what they would show.
		I've had psychics come in my lab back in New York.
unidentified		Psychics?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, psychics, and they've worked out a system where two spikes would mean one thing and one spike would mean another.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		And they were actually able to create some kind of communication with the plants.
unidentified		That's pretty darn interesting.
		I mean, I wouldn't think that, you know, psychics would fit into that.
		I guess everybody's into everything these days.
		Yes, that's true.
		But I mean, as far as like, say they're thirsty, I mean, is there anything, I mean, besides their leaves wilting or something like that, or if they need more copper or whatever?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		That hasn't been, I've not known, I don't know of any system that has been done or any research project has been done on that that I would suspect that it would be possible to do that where you're letting the plants tell you whether they like one kind of fertilizer better than another things of that nature do you have any suggestions on that the only suggestions I have is somebody that's into the botanical work that once they grasp on the idea that there is a lot that could be explored with this with this capability that I'm talking about it
art bell ▲ ● ▼		seems to me a large agricultural company for example Cleve would have should have an enormous interest in what you're doing I mean it it might be a way to grow yet even we're always doing that in the U.S. trying to figure out how to grow larger healthier crops right yeah so this is big money we're talking about here so you'd think they'd take a little money and look at what you're saying well you know at one time there was a field called radionics where something such
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		as this was it was attempted where certain frequencies were worked out to where these radionics people would put even a picture of a field in a special device they had and work out a frequency then try to improve the health of the field just by radionics.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Are you acquainted at all with this?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I am not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		With what kind of results?
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, there was some government interest in it way back.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		I talked to a general that was in charge of that, but it was so out of line with the conventional body of knowledge that I think that it got stigmatized and probably dropped.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, I guess people better read your book.
		Maybe that'll launch more research.
		You're on the air.
		Good morning with Cleve Baxter.
		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm calling from the Netherlands.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Netherlands?
unidentified		The Netherlands?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, you're going to have to yell at me, Netherlands.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're not too strong, but go right ahead.
unidentified		Okay, Cleve.
		It is really an honor to talk to you in art.
		I noticed you're keeping a more conservative show.
		You've not mentioned anything about sperm or blood on this one.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		I mentioned briefly something about blood, but the sperm, it's just an oversight.
		It's not that I'm afraid to talk about it.
		But when I was interested in seeing if this capability went down to the human cell level, that was one of the first things that was tried, was a sperm sample with electrodes put in it.
		And then the donor, who has grown too old to get repeatability on this experiment any longer, would crush an amyl nitrite campsule.
		And this is used for dilation of blood vessels for people that have blood pressure problems and so forth, where they don't have the stroke.
		But when they inhale the fumes at a distance, the sperm sample, so it's used reaction.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There you go, Cohner.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now you've got it all.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		That's a hit 22, by the way.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		I'm not holding that back.
unidentified		The question I have for you is I have access to about 100 1990s-era EEG machines that can be refurbished.
unidentified		And I was wondering if these would lend themselves to people who wanted to do this research, as Art mentioned himself.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Well, let me tell you something.
		I think it would.
		And I wish you would tune into our website, primaryperception.com, because we have people that are asking us every day questions of where they can get a hold of some equipment that will do, it will make a tracing.
		And the idea of the accessibility of inexpensive EEG just hasn't been a solution so far.
unidentified		What I will do is email you if you take Mel with the name Dan into your know that I'm emailing you.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Okay, from Netherlands, right?
unidentified		Right.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I'll recognize that, and I would be very anxious to communicate further with you.
unidentified		Well, we do a paranormal company, and I would love to play with this myself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		100 EEG machines.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Copy me on that email, too.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Boy, I'll tell you, I think we could get rid of those in a hurry for you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No doubt.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I kind of heard that in the back of his voice.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Are these chart drives?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		He's gone now.
		But we'll find out very shortly in the email.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
		West of the Rockies.
		You're on the air with Cleve Baxter.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi.
		My name's Carol.
		I'm calling from Willow Creek, California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Carol.
unidentified		And this is just a great topic.
		And so I had a story I thought I would relate.
		Okay.
		Years ago, I lived in San Francisco, and I had a roommate who hated plants.
		If I was gone a few days, she wouldn't water them.
		She'd always threatened to throw them out.
		And if I was gone for a few days, then or a week or something, I'd come back and it would be just drooping.
		And it was a split-leaf philodendron, really beautiful and big.
		So after we weren't living together anymore and I was living someplace else, the plant was just doing wonderfully.
		And about a year later, she came to visit.
		And I was working and she stayed at my place.
		And after two days of her being there, well, I was at work so I wasn't there all day, my plant started to wilt and turn yellow.
		You're getting repeatability right there.
		And so after she left, it was fine, but I lost leaves and it looked like it had some kind of disease, what was happening.
		And it was just, it remembered her and her asthma.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		You know, I have an experience back in New York where this botanist visited me when she was coming through New York, wanted to see how it electrode the plants.
		And I had tried out the philodendron, which I used for a lot of my early research.
		And every one of these leaves were reactive, different plants that I attached before she arrived.
		When she arrived, these plants all flatlined.
		They wouldn't show a single thing.
		And I asked her, I said, do you do anything that harms the plants you work with?
		She said, harm them, my dear.
		I roast them to get their dry weight.
unidentified		Oh, no.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		And these plants were actually faded.
		And when she left, they all came back and they were reactive again.
		I could hook them up and get tracings.
unidentified		Well, that's why I'd love to show it because plants do, and they do remember what they are doing.
		Oh, I think so.
		I think they do.
		And thanks for all the information tonight.
		And Art, you're wonderful.
		I'm glad you're there on weekend.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Your sweetheart.
		Thank you very much.
		It really will provide, I don't know, an awful lot of material for people to think about.
		I mean, if this is true, it changes our relationship with almost everything, or it should, if we embrace it.
		And just amazing.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Cleve Baxter.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hello, Art and Cleve.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Art, do you remember when you interviewed Rupert Sheldrake and he talked about the people recognizing when somebody was staring at them?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		This falls into that same category, and I do believe it has to do with harmonics interfacing with the field frequencies.
unidentified		I'd like to ask Cleve if he is aware of the 50 fireflies or more in a tree that blink in unison or the schools of fish that wheel at the same instant.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Only casually, and this is fascinating, and flocks of birds that all turn at the same time and so forth.
unidentified		Yes, without a ripple effect.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		Schools of fish and the birds, etc.
		And I'm not sure just what is involved there.
		It seemed like there would be some kind of field because just the idea that they could biologically communicate with each other, I don't think would allow for that rhythm and that synchronization of flight and so forth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There is so much in heaven and earth that we just don't have a clue about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We really don't, do we?
unidentified		I do believe it's a feedback loop that takes place.
unidentified		And Art, you remember when you spoke about your echoes coming back on your seat on your seat?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, of course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're almost out of time here, but yes.
unidentified		That also, I believe, is a feedback loop that saturates the field and you get the echo back to the point of the original disturbance for that field.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Believe me, it's as good a theory as any, and we've had some wild ones for that.
		Well, Cleve Baxter, it has been a pleasure having you on the show.
		I'm glad you wrote the book, Primary Perception, and everybody interested in this should go out and grab it right away.
		But you've been a real pleasure to interview Cleve, and I should have done it long ago.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much, and I appreciate the invitation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, my friend.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night.
cleve backster ▲ ● ▼		Good night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I want to remind everybody just one more time here, folks.
		Want to connect with me?
		No problem.
		Two email addresses, artbell at aol.com or artbell at mindspring.com.
		But right now, I guess this weekend is all over.
		Here's Crystal Gale with the right words to get us out of here.
unidentified		good night This magical journey will take us on a ride.
		Filled with the longing, searching for the truth.
		But we make it to tomorrow when the sun shines on you.
		Good night in the desert.

▲