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Sept. 26, 2004 - Art Bell

02:51:16

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Dr. David Darling - Aliens in the Solar System

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01:04:10

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01:00:25

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Speaker	Time	Text
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, desert and great Americans.
		What is that you all?
		Good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be in the universe's Well, we're in the universe, right?
		25 time zones here in the world or so, and every single one of them covered like a great big warm blanket by this show.
		This program goes GoPay.
		I'm Arpell Honor, joining me with you for the weekend.
		And there's quite a bit of news to report, of course.
		Gene, which you're probably sick of hearing about, and the people in Florida are totally sick of all the way around.
		Florida's fourth hurricane in six weeks, piled on destruction, destruction on destruction, and moved the piles around in already ravaged areas Sunday, as you now know, slicing across Florida like a hot knife through butter.
		And there's at least six dead in Florida now.
		It was kind of a cruel rerun for many still trying to recover from the earlier hurricanes.
		Gene came ashore in the same exact area, hit three weeks ago by Hurricane Francis, and then headed quickly for the panhandle, where 70,000 homes and businesses are still out of power even before Gene arrives.
		They still don't have power.
		And I'll tell you something.
		They were saying last night people might be out of power for three weeks, baby.
		You're out of power for three weeks, and you know it.
		We depend in this modern world a whole lot on power.
		And when you don't have power, you've got a sort of a casket inside your house.
		That's about it.
		Politically, Democratic presidential candidate Kerry arriving Sunday at a remote resort to practice for this week's debate.
		You've got to always wonder how they do that.
		How do they practice?
		Do they go find the meanest Republican they can find, hire them, and have them just pamper Kerry with questions that he otherwise probably couldn't answer, and then you practice answering them?
		I guess.
		He did leave a quote with us as he disappeared in for practice, quote, I will never be a president who just says, mission accomplished.
		I will get the mission accomplished, said Kerry, and went away to practice.
		This is one you might want to note from the Associated Press.
		So mainstream stuff here, folks.
		Headline, St. Helens activity may signal explosion.
		A strengthening series of earthquakes, we've been talking about those for a while, at Mount St. Helens, has now prompted seismologists, in fact today, to warn that the once devastated volcano may see a small explosion soon.
		The U.S. Geological Survey issued a notice of volcanic unrest in response to the swarm of hundreds of earthquakes that began on Thursday.
		And on that note, we'll break and be right back with the rest of the news, as Mr. Harvey would say.
		One of the family is gone.
		One of the family, Bill Balance, who had a lot of controversy, you'll recall, with Dr. Laura.
		And Bill and I go back a little ways.
		He's dead at 85, age 85.
		And I'm so sorry to hear it.
		Another one of the old radio guys, gone, folks.
		Bill Balance.
		We had a kind of a competitive show, and there were some fun years.
		This is an interesting story from a couple of points of view.
		Headline is, Faulty oxygen supply threatens space crew.
		Astronauts may have to abandon the space station later this year if a generator, an oxygen generator, cannot be repaired.
		Yes, you cannot operate without oxygen.
		Crew members may have to abandon the International Space Station late this year if astronauts can't somehow fix already weeks-old oxygen supply problems, according to NASA on Friday.
		While space program manager Bill Gerstenmeier said that NASA was a long way, his words, from making the unprecedented move, the assessment reflected concerns over multiple attempts to figure out what's wrong with a Russian-made oxygen generator.
		Something.
		The station has a 162-day supply of backup oxygen.
		If the Russians cannot launch an unmanned capsule by Christmas to replenish oxygen supplies, the astronauts could be recalled.
		But that's only if the scientists and the two-man crew don't repair the generator.
		Gerstenmeyer said Friday, if for some reason we need to return the crew, we are prepared to return the crew at the right time.
		Under that scenario, that station would remain empty perhaps for months.
		From The Guardian, where you get a lot of your news that you don't get here.
		A new superstrain of the flu virus capable of triggering a global pandemic might emerge from East Asia, according to health officials.
		Listen to this.
		Scientists working at the World Health Organization fear the arrival of flu season in Asian countries could see the human flu virus merge with, up till now, a lethal, less, no, make that, a lethal strain of bird flu.
		You've heard about that, right?
		That's already in circulation, producing a more deadly flu virus that could rapidly infect humans.
		Recent cases of flu in Thailand have been reported in areas already struggling to control the spread of bird flu.
		That's a virus that mostly affects poultry, but has claimed the lives of at least four human beings in recent months.
		Health officials warn that people living in regions where the viruses are circulating could catch both at once, raising the prospect of a new and highly virulent form of the flu emerging.
		The reality, this is head of the WHO influenza program quoted here, the reality is that if these two viruses meet, they'll exchange genetic information and a new virus could emerge that's as pathogenic as the bird flu virus, but as infectious as human flu.
		Yikes, does it seem to you that we are facing an increasing danger from Mother Nature with regard to what she's doing?
		She's getting increasingly complex in trying to find new ways to even the balance out there.
	And I don't think we need to help her because from the Arizona Daily Star, here's another headline.
	Danger seen in plan to resurrect deadly 18 influenza virus.
	Now that would be 1918, folks.
	University of Washington scientists plan to infect monkeys with a killer flu virus grown from cells exhumed from the victims of the 1918 epidemic.
	Now they, of course, hope the insight will gain something in the nature of new information about why millions of people worldwide died from that flu strain, which led to development of better vaccines and drugs that may save lives in the future.
	So that would be the upside to digging up the 1918 virus, which they have, and infecting simians with it.
	Now, the downside, well, a skeptic, for example, of resurrecting and enlivening the 1918 flu virus said, it's rather critical to first make sure that we are adequately protected against creating a man-made pandemic.
	Quote, this project could create a new bug that infects someone in the lab who then walks out at the very end of the day and literally kills tens of millions of people.
	That was, let me see, Ed Hammond, director of biotechnology and bioweapons watchdog organization.
	Though Hammond said he could accept the noble intentions of the UW scientists, he noted that there are no national laboratory standards for dealing with this particular virus.
	The lack of regulatory protection, says he, stems from the fact that the influenza is generally regarded as a fairly routine disease.
	But this organism, the 1918 virus, is something else, said he.
	It's very dangerous and it's very easily spread.
	So what Mother Nature does not do, perhaps, we're working on now in labs.
	A little environmental news.
	Mussels.
	Mussels.
	Now, look at this.
	They found mussels growing on the seabed about 1,300 kilometers, that'd be about 800 miles from the North Pole in what they're saying is a very likely sign of global warming.
	The blue mussels, which normally favor the much warmer waters off France or the eastern U.S., were discovered last month off waters near Norway that are normally covered with ice most of the year.
	The climate is changing fast, said Georg Johnson, professor of the Norwegian University for Science and Technology, who was among experts who found these mussels were a very good indicator the climate is warming.
	And if you look north or south in the world, that's where you'll see the climate changing quickly, very, very quickly.
	Where there is normally ice, there is not ice anymore in many locations.
	In fact, glaciers once held up by a floating ice shelf off Antarctica are now in the business of sliding off into the sea.
	And they're going rather fast, according to scientists, on Tuesday.
	Two separate studies from climate researchers and the space agency NASA, that's ours, show the glaciers are flowing into Antarctica's sea, freed by the 2002 breakup of the Larson B. Ice Shelf.
	So you see, that wasn't the end of it.
	When Larson B. went, that was but the beginning.
	Writing in the journal Geophysical Research Letters, the researchers said their satellite measurements suggest climate warming can lead to rapid sea level rise.
	The teams at NASA's Jet Propulsion Lab in Pasadena, the National Snow and Ice Data Center at the University of Colorado Boulder, and NASA's Goddard Space Center in Greenbelt said, the findings also proved that ice shelves hold back glaciers.
	Well, how about that?
	We really didn't think there was much to Larson B. Everybody said, oh, so what?
	Well, ice shelves hold back glaciers.
	Important post-point.
	Many teams of researchers are keeping a close eye on parts of Antarctica that they say are melting, steadily melting.
	Large ice shelves in the Antarctic Peninsula have disintegrated in 1995 and then 2002 as a result of global warming, but these floating ice shelves didn't affect sea level as they melted.
	Glaciers, on the other hand, do.
	They rest on land, you see, and when they slide into the water, they instantly affect sea level.
	Just like that.
	And here's another one to worry about.
	Glaciers in Antarctica are thinning faster than they did in the 1990s, and that was very fast back in the 90s.
	Researchers have discovered, though, an unexpected folded section.
	This is a folded section of ice beneath the ice cap.
	Findings, they say, indicate the ice would be much less stable than they had thought previously.
	Glaciers in West Antarctica are discharging 60% more ice into the sea than they are accumulating from snowfall.
	That will have a very predictable result, right?
	Think about it.
	Sending off 60% more ice into the sea than they are accumulating.
	So, just thought I, oh, one more item, and then we'll go to the phones.
	Korea, North Korea.
	The United States and Japan have detected some signs that North Korea may be preparing to launch a ballistic missile with a range capable of hitting almost all of Japan.
	Tokyo and Washington had detected the signs after analyzing data from reconnaissance satellites and radio traffic.
	North Korean military vehicles, soldiers, possibly missile engineers were converging on several missile bases in the northeastern part of the isolated communist state, so we may well see the Koreans launching something very shortly.
	Wildcardline, you are on the air.
	Good evening.
unidentified		Good evening, Art.
unidentified		It's Larry from Fort Lauderdale.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Larry.
unidentified		I wanted to comment about what you said about being stuck in a home with no power.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a fact.
unidentified		Last night we escaped it with Gene in South Florida.
		There's about still 21,000 people in Broward County in the Fort Lauderdale area that doesn't have power.
		But in Hurricane Francis, I was out for like seven days, and I jotted down a few things that you take for granted.
		You don't really think about it.
		It starts with the garage door opener when you go to push it, and you realize that you've got to disengage it and lift it up by hand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		No TV radio, no stove, no hot water, no lights, no refrigerator, washing machine.
		But the biggest thing in South Florida is after a hurricane, it seems to be so hot.
		It's the air conditioning that you actually miss the most.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Well, because it's very humid, of course.
		With the fresh rain on the ground, that adds to it.
		It's already humid anyway in Florida.
		So, yes, sir, basically we have big caskets when the power goes off because we depend...
unidentified		It's true.
		You start to feel like a fool when you start hitting light switches after the third day.
		And you start to think about all the shows and all the guests that you've had on that, you know, talk about sort of a doomsday scenario.
		And you start to look around in a darkened home.
		There's some good parts.
		Everything is very quiet.
		There's no electromagnetic field.
		And you can pick up good radio stations, you know, A.M. far away.
		But other than that, there's nothing nice about it.
		It is hell.
		And you start to reflect on some of the guests that you've had that said, you know, we could be heading for that someday.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I too, sir, thank you very much.
		I listened to my own guests on this subject.
		And I don't know, it was a few years ago, one day I went and said, hon, I'm going to try something.
		And I went out and threw off the master switch, came in the house.
		And I probably have more electronics than just about anybody you know.
		And so for me, it was particularly dramatic.
		But I mean, even the things, the very basic things that he just mentioned, I mean, it's an eerie, strange, quiescent sort of, you know, stands the hair on the back of your neck up kind of feeling to go into a house like that.
		It's D-E-A-D-D.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
		This is Neil from San Diego.
		Yes.
		I wanted to talk about the track of the three hurricanes, Ivan, Francis, and Charlie, that I was looking at a website, and they stated that the tracks all followed a pattern through all the counties that were won by George Bush in the election in 2000.
		And then up on top was a quote from a high-ranking general from the Pentagon.
		And I guess he said that to paraphrase something that the public should not rule out, that the Defense Department has the ability to control the weather.
		And so what I've come to the conclusion is that the people in the Pentagon might think that this present president is in bad taste, so to speak.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So the Pentagon, in a demonstration of power to the American people and demonstrating their feelings about the current sitting president, just took those hurricanes over the exact counties that had gone for Bush.
		Well, some things are a little bit too much of a stretch for even me to embrace.
		So I'm not going to grab that one, but if you want to, you're welcome to it.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hey, how's it going?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's going fine, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I'm in Colorado Springs, Colorado.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Welcome to the program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What's up?
unidentified		It's a great honor to be able to talk to you, Mr. Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		I know you have an interest in time traveling.
unidentified		Just wanted to let you know I'm a time traveler.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're a time traveler.
unidentified		Well, I've done it once, I wouldn't say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, once?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hey, once counts.
unidentified		Traveler.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once absolutely counts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What was the manner of your travel, machine?
unidentified		I'm on it right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're on what?
unidentified		My trip.
unidentified		Actually, being here at this time is my trip.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, wonderful.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're here in 2004, and you came from whence?
unidentified		30-30.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		30-30!
		30-30.
		Well, boy, you've got just all kinds of things you could tell us.
		Or can you not tell us for fear that you would set off some sort of terrible time twist?
unidentified		Well, to safeguard against that, they've come up with a lot of things.
unidentified		I'm set up here kind of like your radio station is, your seven-second delay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		That's kind of like what I'm on.
		And if I tried to say or do anything that that it would influence anything in any way, then your handlers would bleep you out.
		Like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		And the large amount of money I put in as a safety feature will be gone.
unidentified		They've got to go home broke and then go to jail.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Oh, man.
		So what are the kinds of things you can't talk about?
unidentified		Basically anything.
unidentified		But it's really cool to be able to talk to anyway.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean you can't tell me?
unidentified		I mean, look, we've got a big presidential election coming up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now that's just a little bit into the future.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, couldn't you give us some idea of what's going to happen?
unidentified		Believe me, I'd love to, but...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But they'd punch her...
unidentified		If you could imagine the kind of trouble I'd...
unidentified		And I'd paid a lot of money to come on there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Total bummer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So are you basically on a kind of a, I don't know, a time slum?
unidentified		Time slumber.
unidentified		Yeah, it's more like a seven-day cruise.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A seven-day life.
		Hey, you know what?
		You hold on for a minute, alright?
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You stay right there.
		Remember, sir.
		Tick, tick, tick, tick.
		From the high desert, I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		Well, I think it's time to get ready To realize just what I have found I have to get no repair Over my hands It's all clear to me now My heart is...
		Nothing but a heart is never a danger But a heart and a tears back all the way Nothing but a tear back I have such a sin Please like me, oh why Can I get him?
		Nothing but a heart Nothing but a heart and a tear back all the way It's a great situation that I just can't win Please like me, oh why Can I get him?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Man, these girls can tell how to talk.
		And they are listening very closely.
		The numbers are different on the weekends.
		And here they are.
unidentified		To talk with Artfell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Art Bell from East to the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
		From West to the Rockies, call ARP at 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach Art Bell by calling your in-country sprint access number, pressing Option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
		From coast to coast and worldwide on the Internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The year 30-30, man, that's way ahead of 25-25-30-30.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You'd think there'd be a little something he could tell us, would you?
unidentified		Oh, my God.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Reminding you, if you would like to communicate with me, there are two methods to do so.
		I am Art Bell, A-R-T-B-E-L-L, lowercase, at mindspring.com.
		Artbell at mindspring.com or artbell at a ol.com.
		Now with that in mind, back to our time traveler, 30:30.
		Surely there must be I mean, skirts.
		Do skirts go up?
unidentified		I'm sorry, does what now?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Skirts!
		Are they up or down?
		I mean, if you can't talk about the stock market, I doubt the world will crash in if you tell us how for females?
unidentified		Yes!
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't even like that question.
unidentified		I'm not allowed to talk about fashions at all.
		I know, but I don't know.
		Let me just say how it's just really cool to be able to talk to you.
		I mean, and I've seen a lot of bands.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A lot of what?
unidentified		Musical bands?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		That's probably been one of the greatest things.
unidentified		I mean.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, so in other words, you came back here to go to concerts and stuff.
unidentified		No, no, no, I came back for a lot of reasons just to be here.
		But I mean, that's been one of the coolest things.
		I mean, could you imagine you being able to go back and see Frank Sinatra in concert and something like that?
		You know, I'm not sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, okay, no, no, that's a fair analogy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll accept that, yes.
unidentified		Except that I had thought I think it's my mess up, not theirs that I was going to be able to see Elvis.
		And I guess I'm a little late from what I understand.
		Well, you're you're well, yeah, you're late.
		Yeah.
		You're late.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I mean, one more little hop.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it is it Can you even tell us, is it expensive to travel in time?
unidentified		Yes, very expensive.
		Relatively it's hard to make the transfer of money to, you know, the future currency.
		But basically, I only have one chance in my lifetime for the amount of money I have.
		This is it.
		Well, that's better.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have a great time in 2004, is all I can say.
unidentified		Well, I am.
		Definitely one of the coolest things is driving these gas-powered car.
		Frontiest thing in the world.
		I mean, I understand the damage they do and how dangerous and everything, but get out on the road and be able to get it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All that power.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That power is fun, isn't it?
unidentified		And you go wherever you want.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, thank you very much for the.
		Well, you didn't give us a peek into the future, really.
		You just sort of.
		Well, you seem to be enjoying being here in 2004.
		East of the Rockies, you are on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hey, Art, it's finally an honor to talk to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		well, I'm glad to have you.
unidentified		Hey, I'm calling from Cleveland here, and I don't know what you heard about this, and I'm not getting much details here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Listen, I've been getting all these emails about something being up in Cleveland.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What the hell's going on in Cleveland?
unidentified		All I know is, and it's strange, only the station, which is TAM, which carries your show here, is the only thing reporting it was one afternoon talk show host and one local news channel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Didn't hear anything since, but the last three days, there have been a goofy green light in the air, which I think was Tuesday night.
		It was sighted.
		And ever since then, there have actually been F-16 fighter planes all over this place in the last three days.
		And there have been no answers in the question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're not the only person who has noticed this.
		I've had a lot of emails.
		So a goofy green light came out.
		Can you get a little beyond goofy green light?
unidentified		Well, what I saw is a quick glance.
		I haven't seen it myself, but what I saw on the news was that it was almost like a contrail, but it was greenish.
		And as I think the sun was setting, so it was kind of mixed with the orange and some clouds.
		And it was just a green light looking like a long trail, almost like a contrail, but it was green.
		And ever since then, we had the turnpike shut down for a couple hours.
		I think it was Wednesday afternoon.
		There was military moving stuff.
		Friends of mine had at least seen that F-16 fighter jets flying around for the last two and a half days.
		And after that, today was kind of calm here on Sunday.
		But other than that, I don't know what the heck's going on.
		I mean, if it was a threat to the power plants or if this was actually a UFO that was sighted out here, nobody's saying nothing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I appreciate the call, and I would look for more on this topic.
		Now, the reason I took that is because, indeed, there have been weird things going on in Cleveland.
		As you mentioned, I think one of their local talk show hosts has talked some about it.
		So I'd like to hear more from Cleveland.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Yes, hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		You know, the apocalypse is an allegory that recycles.
		And I think that the recycling period is 300 years.
		And I think that the last, we're in the one that started with the French Revolution.
		I think it ended, the last one ended with our revolution.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But the biblical apocalypse would be more significant than a 300-year event, I think.
unidentified		No, I'm saying that the biblical apocalypse, if you examine it, bad things happen in a cycle of 300 years.
unidentified		Theologians believe that it's recyclable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what happened 300 years ago that you would classify as an apocalypse?
unidentified		Well, I'm saying that the end of the it was apocalyptic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, what apocalyptic thing happened 300 years ago.
unidentified		Well, I think that that one started, say, in the 1500s with the breakup of the church.
		Okay?
		And then we go up around 1800, and we have the French Revolution.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, but again, sir, thank you.
		But, you know, I don't, I don't know, the word apocalypse to me, and apocalyptic in the biblical sense, carry a much heavier meaning than the things that you named.
		You know, wars come and go, and I don't think they're generally referred to as apocalypses.
		Wildcardline, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		How are you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just spiffy.
unidentified		This art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Oh, it's a pleasure to talk to you, sir.
		I've listened to you for about seven years now.
		And my father died about 10 years ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		And he told me a great many things about the aliens.
unidentified		He was stationed down at White Sands Air Force Base down in the 40s.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would you turn your radio off, please?
unidentified		Yes, I can.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, wonderful.
		That's something everybody should do when they get on the air because of our delay.
		No, officer.
		Turned it off, actually.
		All right.
unidentified		There you go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go all the way off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So what did he tell you?
unidentified		Well, I remember as a kid, about seven years old, and we watched the movie The Day of the Earth Stood Still.
		Yes.
		And he goes, son, do you really want to know about the aliens?
		And I said, yes.
		And he told me about the grays.
		And he said, you know, son, how about the eyes that are black?
		He said, no, they're contact lenses that they wear because they come from a very dark part of space.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How is your dad in a position to know these things?
unidentified		Well, he was a retired Air Force Colonel.
unidentified		He was stationed down in White Sands Air Force Base in the 40s.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, and worked with this sort of thing, apparently.
unidentified		Well, he was a radar operator.
unidentified		And I'm kind of, I don't know, kind of nervous right here now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He was a radar operator.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I wonder how that would bring him into contact with alien beings.
unidentified		Well, he was in Korea.
		And he was all of a sudden moved up to the radar domes in Canada.
		And he told me he was like demoted because he was kind of hushed up.
		And he said...
		No, no, no, no.
		No, no, no, no.
		This was after that.
		okay the uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		but he was very account of her risk is going to This happened at White Sands?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that what you're saying?
unidentified		No.
unidentified		He was stationed at White Sands Air Force Base.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where did this happen?
unidentified		He said he was called out to secure an unsecure location probably around, you know, 1947.
		That's what I gather in 1947 because he was in there in the 40s.
		And he told me that the aliens are real.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, sir.
unidentified		That's what I'm trying to say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think I've got that part.
		Thank you very much.
		And maybe what you ought to do is rather than trying to get it out on a national talk show where you're obviously really nervous is to write me a detailed email because you obviously had more that you wanted to say.
		I understand you get nervous when you get on the radio.
		It's just sort of a hazard of suddenly finding yourself on the air like this person.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, this is Wanda from North Carolina.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Wanda.
unidentified		And about several weekends ago, right at the end of the show, I was called and I was telling you about the Tesla box that I had.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Remember?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, oh, of course.
unidentified		And so what I did was I sent you an email, but you probably get so many you didn't get it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Unless it said something like Tesla box or something that would catch my attention, it's possible I missed it because I don't recall, and I was looking for it.
unidentified		Yeah, well, it didn't come back.
unidentified		It came the next day.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, let's forget about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tell me about the Tesla box.
unidentified		Well, what I had done, I opened a metaphysical bookstore in the area, and there had not been but one in the state of North Carolina.
unidentified		And about three months after I had opened, I first got interested in pyramids and things like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you know it's a Tesla box?
unidentified		A man brought it into my store, a very strange little man, and he asked me if I knew what it was.
		And I told him no.
		And so he asked me if I could find out what it was because it had something to do with an old scientist.
		So liking Einstein and all that, I said yes.
		So he left it with me for quite a while.
		And I guess it was the next day that I actually opened it up and inspected it and everything.
		And it was like a suitcase.
		And you could tell it was very old because it had very refined leather like they used to make these suitcases on the travel train long ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure, I understand.
unidentified		Under the handle, it was thicker than the width of it.
unidentified		And under the handle that you would hold it was an oval plate that was engraved with Nicole Tesla's name.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would do it, all right.
unidentified		And it also had the name of the machine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that name was?
unidentified		The Violet Flame.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Violet Flame.
unidentified		The flame.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Violet Flame.
unidentified		When I opened the box, it was very beautiful velvet, like really old, soft, soft velvet.
		And you could tell that it had something under it that was making, you know, some wood pieces that were making the impressions for these tools to lay.
		All right, there were five different tools, and they were all made out of some glass, the strangest shapes.
		It did have a switch in it and a cord.
		I remember looking at that cord that would plug into the wall.
		It was electric.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so you tried to find out, ma'am, I presume, what this box was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You consulted with some people in the time you had?
unidentified		I asked everybody, and only one, I asked a fellow who had studied a lot of Nicole Tesla.
		Then I got into it, and I studied more, and I got the Colorado Springs papers, and, you know, just everything I could get my hands on.
		And we couldn't figure out what it was, except for it must have been, there were some samples in those big, if you've ever seen those volumes of the Colorado Springs papers that he did, that showed a lot of his inventions.
		I used it on myself.
		I plugged it in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Whoa.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You plugged it in to the wall?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It had a 110-volt plug on it.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		Yes, but like the kind that my grandmother had on an old iron fan that was standing on the floor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I remember those plugs, believe me, but they'd still work today.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So what happened?
unidentified		Well, there was an arc in it that went from this little box that had, it actually was a dial.
		It wasn't a flip like a light switch.
		It was a little dial.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, ma'am.
unidentified		And it had an arc, a purple arc, that was really more the color of violet, like in a rainbow, that went from that little box.
		And I was holding one of these little instruments.
		The particular one I had was shaped like a long spoon you might stir iced tea with.
		Right.
		But the end of the spoon was molded in a very flat on the inside of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so we're going to have to rush to this, but what happened?
unidentified		Well, I rubbed it across my hands and I could just feel all this tingling sensation.
		You could see all these arcs of light.
		It was the strangest thing, kind of like the fiber optics of today.
		And the odor on my hands would not go away for about four weeks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Any other effects?
unidentified		Yes, I had, after that, I had this tingling in the palm of my hands, and I could, I want to call it laying on hands or whatever, but a lot of heat would generate out of my hands.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Understood.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I take it the man came and retrieved his Tesla box.
unidentified		He did.
		I wish I had taken a picture of it.
		I wish I. I so often think of it, and I gave him all the information I had, but they weren't all, and until you said they were all retrieved, I did not know that they had tried to scoop them all up and was very naive because I just opened the store about some of these things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's incredible.
		So a lady opens a store.
		She's delivered a box from Nicola Tesla.
		And she uses it, brave, I must say, brave.
		And then she ends up with some sort of powers to heal, or at least the heat that's normally associated with the laying on of hands.
		It was a phrase she used.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi there, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, you sound like you're at the bottom of a barrel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Pick up that phone.
unidentified		I'm on a speaker.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Pick it up.
unidentified		California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Pick it up.
unidentified		What?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now we'll go.
unidentified		The speaker phone doesn't work from Death Valley?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, speakerphones don't work from up here in the high desert.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So anyway, what's up?
unidentified		Okay, well, this is Sage from Tacopa.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, you're back on the speakerphone again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Get off that.
unidentified		Sorry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, all right.
unidentified		Oh, anyway, I thought I'd call in and confess that I'm a time traveler.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you say you were calling from Tacopa?
unidentified		Yeah, your backyard.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, my backyard indeed.
unidentified		And you're listening to K-9.
		K-N-Y-N.
		The king of the airline.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're telling me you're a time traveler, right?
unidentified		Yes, from the year 2006.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From 2006?
		Yes.
		Do you have any rules that prohibit you from disclosing stuff?
unidentified		None whatsoever.
		Ah, cool.
		I have a mission, and I am willing to tell you some things about my mission.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let her rip.
unidentified		Okay, I was sent to witness the Watergate conspiracy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, did they miss?
unidentified		Well, you know, we had to make sure we got it firsthand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you mean you've been here since Watergate?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're kind of stuck, aren't you?
unidentified		No, no, no.
unidentified		I've got until July 4th, 2006 to accomplish my mission.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Which is?
unidentified		To tie up some loose ends in preparation for the paradigm shift that was kick-started by the inevitable 911 attack on the heart and belly of the beastly Bush conspiracy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's going to be a what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Some sort of revelation that comes to everybody?
unidentified		Well, no, this is just what we know in the year 2006.
unidentified		There's government's business of conspiracy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Remember, you were saying that there's some sort of paradigm shift that's going to happen.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
		Oh, yeah.
		It's a quickening effect, you know, that visceral quiver that we all feel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got news for you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That one's already underway.
unidentified		Yeah, it's happening, isn't it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Quickly.
unidentified		Loose ends.
unidentified		Have to be tied up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hence the name, the quickening.
		All right, dear.
		I got to run.
		Thank you very much.
unidentified		We're going to be talking to an astronomer in a moment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And he thinks we're looking in the wrong place for aliens if they are here.
unidentified		Her long, long head, hanging down around her knees.
		All the cats who get stripped tears, praying for a little breeze.
		Her long, long head, falling down across her arms.
		Hiding all the ladies'charms.
		Lady Godiva.
		She found fame and made her name.
		Hollywood director came into town and said to her.
		She found fame and made her name.
		Wanna take a ride?
		To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll-free 800-825-5033.
		From west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach ART by calling your in-country sprint access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Incidentally, the webcam shot up there is the infamous Yeti, of course.
		In a moment, I'll throw another one up there that was kind of cute.
		Caught that also earlier today.
		He's a very photogenic little devil, and he knows it, too.
		All right, coming up, this has the potential to be a class three type show.
		David Darling is an astronomer, a British astronomer.
		He's got a Ph.D. from the University of Manchester, England.
		He is author of more than 40 books on subjects ranging from life in the universe to life after death, and from cosmology to consciousness.
		My kind of guy.
		His latest book is The Universal Book of Astronomy, a 600-page A to Z of astronomy.
		His website, The Worlds of David Darling, tackles everything from silicon-based life to UFOs.
		Listen to the books he's written.
		The Universal Book of Mathematics.
		That was a novel.
		Just kidding.
		To Life Everywhere, the Maverick Science of Astrobiology, to the complete book of spaceflight, from Apollo 1 to Zero Gravity, to his latest, I presume, the Universal Book of Astronomy, from Andromeda Galaxy to Zone of Avoidance.
		Not alone jacks up a big question.
		Zone of avoidance.
		What is the zone?
		Is that like the Forbidden Zone or something?
		Well, that's one of the questions we'll ask.
		But what we're going to explore with this astronomer is the fact that he thinks we may be looking for life in all the wrong places, and he's got some thoughts about it in a moment.
		As promised, here is David Darling.
		David, welcome to the program.
unidentified		Thank you, Arch.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's great to have you.
		Remember to stay good and close to the phone because of the nature of phones.
		David, you are and have been an astronomer, obviously, pretty impeccable credentials for how long.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Well, I qualified in astronomy back in the 70s and did some research.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		And for the past almost 30 years now, I've been actually writing on astronomy, so combining the two of a freelance writer and working astronomy itself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you say working astronomy, you mean behind a telescope, Right?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't, actually.
		You know, people think that I can, you know, look at any star in the sky and tell you what it is and tell you what's happening next month.
		But I'm not really a sky-at-night guy.
		I'm more of a theoretician, I would say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's interesting.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		I used to have a telescope when I was a kid, but I haven't had one for many years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you would call yourself then a theoretical astronomer?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, and I kind of like to look at the big picture, you know.
		That's why I didn't go into research in a big way, is that I like to kind of float around and look at the big questions and even get into philosophical issues, as you know from my books.
		So in research, you tend to focus on a very narrow little area and you get super expert on that.
		And I don't really have the patience that I like to sort of zoom out and see the whole deal.
unidentified		So that's really why I like to write about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, how would most hardcore behind-the-telescope astronomers regard what you do?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Well, I like to try to span the divide, if you like, between the very orthodox scientist, you know, who has to present a certain facade to the world and adopt the kind of party line, and then the people who like to explore more adventurous ideas.
		So I like to try to form a bridge between the two.
		So I hope in a way that I'm acceptable to both sides of the divide.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Has that been so?
		I mean, you've written enough, surely, to have some reactions.
		Are you generally accepted, do you think, on both sides?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think so.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I do work a lot with university people and NASA engineers and scientists.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's good enough for me.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		On the one hand, and I do deal with people who explore, as I say, wider ideas on the other front.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		So I hope so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, a lot of times I don't put much stock in the stock questions they send along to ask a guest, but these are really good ones tonight.
		In the past, we've spent a lot of time looking for radio signals from other stars, and that's true we have with SETI.
		Now, scientists are beginning to think there may be some better ways to search for signs of alien intelligence closer to home, here in the solar system, maybe even on Earth.
		And so the question written is, are we about to come face to face with extraterrestrials on our own very doorstep?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think it's.
		I'm very positive about that.
		I think there's a very good chance that somewhere within the solar system there is material evidence of other intelligence.
		This is prime real estate for life, and any intelligence or civilization out there will have been watching us for a long period of time, be aware of what's happening here on the Earth, just as we're starting to discover other planets elsewhere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that would mean, though, that they would have space travel and would have been either here or near, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Because we've only been transmitting radio intelligent waves so long.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		But yeah, that's true.
		Those radio waves have probably only gone out, you know, maybe 50 light years or so, or 60, 70 light years, not very far.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		But nevertheless, you would be able to detect life signs, signs of advanced life, even plant life, for example, by detecting the gases in the atmosphere that are released by, for example, oxygen-producing plants.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At what distance do you think an advanced civilization might be able to detect that there would be life on Earth?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Oh, right across the galaxy with sufficiently large equipment, certainly easily over thousands of light years.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		So a substantial part of the galaxy, even with the technology that we'll have within a matter of decades.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		You know, we'll be able to look at Earth-like planets within a few hundred light years and be able to see things like chlorophyll, molecular oxygen, which are all life indicators.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		We'll be able to spot where those life-bearing worlds are within a pretty good distance.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then it would be your position that a civilization sufficiently advanced, just a little bit past us or even a lot past us, certainly would be able to figure out we're here.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, absolutely.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		I mean, if not in person, you know, not humanity itself, at least advanced life would focus their attention on us.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		aren't uh...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		why do you think that when when you say on our doorstep you mean Within the solar system.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, within the planetary system around the sun, you know, which would obviously include the Earth itself and the planets and the satellites going around the sun.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, we have been, except for some very recent excitement regarding the hydrogen frequency, which I'm still trying to find out about, there was a signal, they thought.
		But minus that and how that turns out, that's current news.
		We haven't heard anything from anybody else as of yet.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		As far as the conventional SETIOs, looking for radio signals from other stars, it's been a long search.
		It's been going on since about 1960 now, so over 40 years.
		And there have been a few kind of promising signals.
		I guess the most exciting one was back in 1977.
		That was the so-called WOW signal, which was picked up by Ohio State, their big ear radio telescope, as it was called.
		And that was kind of like a spike, you know, a localized frequency that, well, really is still unexplained.
		I mean, it could either be a natural radio source of which we don't understand, which is exciting in itself, or the other possibility is an artificial source outside the solar system, which is even more exciting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So either way, it's kind of neat.
		Well, David, there's something to remember.
		We sent out a very, very, very short burst.
		We turned Arecibo from a receiver into a transmitter one time.
		But it was a little tiny burst.
		I mean, if some SETI astronomers way out there somewhere were to have caught that burst, they'd have reacted about like the WOW signal because it would have come and gone and they'd have said, wow, what the hell was that?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Precisely, exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Other than that, we've never sent anything anyway.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Well, we have actually sent a few more recently.
		There's been a transmitter in the Ukraine that has sent out a number of signals.
		And I've got details of that on my website that I can give you later.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, just tell me as much as you can.
		Now, see, I had no idea that was going on.
		You're saying from the Ukraine, they've been transmitting signals that are intended to be picked up by other life, if it's out there?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and they've been directed towards newly discovered planets.
		So we've actually, of course, now discovered about 130 or so extrasolar planets.
		So we kind of know that these planetary systems are out there and they're going around sun-like stars.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So they're kind of potentially So we send out the signal broad enough to be heard by that system?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		It's a localized, you know, focused signal.
		It's not like just a broad directional signal.
		It is a targeted signal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Got it.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		You know, beamed at stars within about 100 light years.
		And I think there's been maybe, oh, I don't know, maybe half a dozen or ten signals.
		I'd have to check the details.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Because might I ask, you mean ten transmitted signals?
		Yeah, to specific stars.
		When did they decide to do this?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		This has been within the last three to four years.
		Yeah, so Team Encounter, and it's done by a Ukrainian astrophysicist who's actually head of the effort.
		And I'll get you the pages on my website, and you can look at it, and people can look at it, and I can give you some more details later in the show when I just check into them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Doctor, you know, really, in the past, I had heard that we humans here on Earth had settled on the following psychology.
		That, yes, we sent out that one thing, and the reason we haven't done anything since is because a lot of people figured it might not be such a good idea to let somebody else know that we're out here because who knows what they might intend.
		Yeah.
		So when did that fall apart?
		Apparently when the Ukrainians began transmitting, see, I hadn't heard about that.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		There were one or two scientists who really kicked up a fuss.
		I think Martin Ryle, who was a British astronomer, really got upset.
		He thought, well, let's not draw attention to ourselves.
		Here we are, poor little weak humans.
		All these guys are going to be way ahead of us, and they're just going to beat up on us, basically.
		Which I think is not a very good argument, frankly.
		Who's going to cross hundreds of light years just to grab hold of a little planet?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Chick our butts.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Seems far-fetched to me, you know.
		And in any case, they're going to find out we're here soon enough, you know, whether we broadcast or not.
		So I don't take that line of argument very seriously.
		And I don't think it's the reason that we have stopped broadcasting.
		The one you were talking about with Arecibo was Carl Sagan and Martin Drake back in the 70s.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		And they targeted a globular cluster 25,000 light years away.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		So we've got a long wait until we get any kind of reply from that, if ever.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the Ukrainians are targeting something now.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		They're targeting something that maybe we wouldn't hear within a lifetime, but within a few lifetimes, you know.
		But I don't think the reason that we stopped broadcasting is that we're worried about getting invaded.
		I think it's just that this is lack of willpower, basically.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have any idea what the Ukrainians transmitted?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		I guess it was a fairly complex message.
		I don't know the exact structure of it.
		Let me get back to you later in the show on the details because I'm still a little, you know, I don't carry that information right at the front of my mind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hopefully not how to construct hydrogen bombs or, you know, whatever.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I think it was kind of fairly much like the original signal, and perhaps even closer to the information that was put on the Voyager probe.
		You know, it's about our literature and our art and our music.
		I think there's quite a lot of music on it, basically, because they figured these kind of things might be universal.
		You know, what's the point in sending a message in English, you know?
		But if you send music, maybe that's a universal, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, music is sort of mathematical, isn't it?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		It's mathematical, and also, even if you can't appreciate the music, at least you know that it's artificially constructed, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I hope we didn't send rap.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		I don't think we did.
		You know, I hope not, too.
		That's one thing I can't stomach either.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On the contrary for that matter, I think that would maybe You don't want to, you know, that's going to cause an invasion right away.
		Yes, yes, indeed.
		So there have been a few tantalizing possibilities, things that might have been signals.
		Well, since we're on the subject, have you heard about this latest?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, this was the SETI at home thing, wasn't it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes, yes.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		And this was a story that was put out in New Scientist magazine, which again is a British, you know, I don't really want to kind of own up to that, but that was a British magazine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, that's quite a way.
		You go ahead and toot your own horn.
		A lot of things come from British publications and broadcast media that we don't get here in the U.S. And you're here in the U.S., it should be said, right?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, I put this story on my website, so I'm not, you know, I've been kind of promulgating this story right from the start.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		And it came out on September the 1st, and the title of the story was Mysterious Signals from 1,000 Light Years Away, which grabbed your attention right away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely got mine.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		And it's not really the sort of thing you normally see in a kind of a, well, New Scientist is pretty mainstream.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You bet.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		And that was a really far-out title, you know.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		And I think maybe the headline writer went a little bit over the top with that one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Perhaps so, but I believe the article quoted two separate sources of detection of the signal, right?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, what they do, of course, is, again, it's the Arecibo telescope that's used to pick up this data.
		And it's always panning the sky.
		And some of the data from that is then processed by zillions of home computers all around the world that have signed up for it.
		And it's basically gathering data, it's piggybacking on other observations.
		So while astronomers are going around their business, SETI at home is picking, is kind of tracking these things and looking for anything that's suspicious.
		And then, you know, if there's a, And if you see the same signal again, then that becomes a candidate signal, kind of a potential.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Well, in February, Arecibo was deliberately pointed at those candidate signals, and all but one failed to show again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All but one.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		And this was the one that was reported in the New Scientist magazine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Also, in other words, once Arecibo itself registered the signal, then alarm bells began to go off.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, where do we stand with it now?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Well, where we stand with it now, you know, according to the guys in charge of the SETI at home project, Dan Wertheimer, who's the chief scientist of the project, basically said right from the start that the story was blown up out of proportion.
		You know, that really the reporter had, you know, it's picked up on the fact that it was a double repeat signal.
		But he's saying, well, that's going to happen.
		You know, you're looking at thousands, hundreds of thousands of signals, and occasionally you're going to get a repeat just because of noise in the system, basically.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I heard them.
		There were several disclaimers in that story.
		Well, it could be internal in the telescope.
		They said it could have been a satellite.
		could have been a lot of things.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		You see, the thing is, today...
		Well, you can never disprove a negative, you know.
		I mean, the thing is, we don't know what it is.
		But what he's saying is that statistically it's not significant and that the story got all around the world within half an hour.
		It was being reported everywhere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, one thing I noted about the story, David, was that it broke.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it was all the way back in February of 2003 and then was just now reported, what, two, three weeks ago, right?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, the reporter was picking through the data and then, you know, he kind of noticed that there'd been this repeat signal and then got excited about it and produced the story without really consulting the scientists involved in the project.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		well we have a minute now the reporter noticed Well, not necessarily the raw data, but they list the candidate signals on their website.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		And if one is repeated, then you're not looking through thousands of pages of data.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		It's fairly obvious which have been repeated.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, do you know if they're back avidly searching to try and get yet another repeat, or what?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, I've heard they're going to go back.
		I mean, I don't know whether they have the capability to just zoom on it right away.
		Our asto is one of the, you know, it's dug into the ground.
		It's like it's a bowl in the ground, basically.
		It's a natural crater, so you can't just point it wherever you want.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's quite true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They only have so much latitude by moving the received section out at the end of the dish around the feed point.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
		So you've got to wait until the Earth's kind of moved it back into position again, which probably won't be for another six months or so.
		And then they do, I guess, plan to look at this again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I wonder if they found it yet again, Doctor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then would that be a time to begin jumping up and down?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, then they'd start to get a little bit excited, I think.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		I think one more time on that one, that would really be good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you know anything of the nature of the signal that had been received at all?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Well, any of these signals, the reason they're interesting is that they're kind of like narrowband signals.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Right, open.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Professor, hold on.
		We'll be right back.
		David Darling, an astronomer, a British astronomer at that, is with us.
		I'm Art Bell, and of course, in the middle of the night, which is where we do biz, this is Coast to Coast AM.
		Don't touch that guy.
unidentified		We don't count reason.
		You know we don't count reason.
		You don't count reason.
		You don't count reason.
		Why?
		Baby, when you need a smile, there's no shadow.
		There's no way to come to me.
		Baby, you'll see.
		But I'm too pretty, baby.
		Who's gonna love you through the night?
		But I'm too pretty, my wife.
		There's always that good, baby.
		But I do.
		Who's gonna love you, love you?
		Who's gonna love you, my wife?
		We're gonna love you, love you We're gonna love you We're gonna love you
		To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at Area Code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is Area Code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
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art bell ▲ ● ▼		Indeed so, David Darling, who is a British astronomer and does actually think they might be out there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, most astronomers, after all, both.
unidentified		Aliens?
unidentified		Oh, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's the Art Bell, too, right?
		And his very band of alien followers.
		But not this astronomer.
		He tackles this one straight on.
		We'll be right back.
		If you have a computer and if you're on our website and you're so inclined, you can send a fast blast to me, which is a question, hopefully one relevant to the guest I have on right now.
		And Roger in Post Falls, Idaho has done so with a very good, I think, question because we've discussed this so much on this radio program, Professor.
		Many people have noted the similarity of the timeline between when the United States began exploding atomic bombs and when U.S. citizens began seeing UFOs on a very regular basis.
		And the exact question from Roger is, can you ask, please, how far radiation signals have traveled from the nuclear bomb tests of the 40s?
		In other words, would setting off a nuclear weapon in any way be something that would be particularly detectable from afar?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		It's a good question.
		I haven't thought about that one before.
		I guess the thing that would be the main gear, you wouldn't get any radioactivity from the explosion spreading outside the atmosphere even.
		But what you would get is some gamma radiation, which is the really, really short wavelength.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that would go sailing right through the ionosphere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, right.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Clear out into cellar space, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At the speed of light.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		At the speed of light, yeah.
		I mean, it's like light, but it's just very, very short wavelength.
		And there are no other sources of gamma radiation on the Earth.
		I mean, certainly no intense sources.
		So, you know, if you suddenly got a, and you push you need pretty powerful equipment.
		We don't have that kind of equipment on Earth that we could see, you know, gamma bursts like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you don't rule out that possibility at all.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		No, no.
		The sort of equipment that we're developing now and extended a few hundred years even into the future, you would be able to detect gamma radiation of that level from hundreds of light years away, even clear across the galaxy if you have the right equipment.
		Very good point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I suppose then if there really is a Federation out there somewhere, somebody's at a control point and he sees something, he goes, damn, there's another planet.
		Look at that.
		and read the so i mean could not have been i think you And a reason definitely, perhaps, definitely, perhaps, there's a chance for you.
		Definitely, perhaps.
		For aliens to say, all right, there's one we need to go check out.
		Because, I mean, that's when we started getting all these UFO sightings.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, that's one explanation for it.
		The other, of course, is that people were spooked at the time.
		They were expecting the Russians to be lobbying missiles over at any moment and were looking up at the skies in a kind of worried fashion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes, but you know, people were equally spookable before that, and since we've had constant, I mean, you would think that the thing would wear off, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you wouldn't get the sightings anymore if that was the reason.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		I'm just saying that, yeah, I mean, I'm open to that idea.
		I'm just saying there's an alternative explanation as well.
		The other thing, of course, is that now we're wrecking the environment, and that equally is detectable from afar.
unidentified		Oh.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		And I would think that, sure, I mean, the pollutants and things that we're putting into the atmosphere, you can detect those as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, certainly from space, you can see the fact that the North Pole ain't what she used to be.
		And that's putting it mildly.
		I mean, what's going on on planet Earth right now is incredible.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		And those sort of changes will be easily detectable over great distances and will tell you that there is a species that's messing up his planet.
		And another reason to put it under heavy surveillance, either from afar or locally with probes or even inhabited spacecraft.
		So, yeah, I'm open to that idea.
		I think that there are more reasons for an extraterrestrial to worry about the way we treat our planet and maybe lobby missiles around.
		But both of them are causes for concern.
		And to worry about letting the species infect the rest of the galaxy until it's mended its ways.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You think they could then be in our backyard, which raises the question, I mean, virtually in our backyard.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So that raises the question, why are we searching everywhere but?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Well, there's no really good reason for that.
		It's just that that's the way we started out.
		And, you know, the early SETI search for extra-trusted intelligence people that started out back in the 60s, they were radio astronomers, you know, and they were communications engineers.
		And this was the era when we first built giant radio telescopes.
		So we had the capability for listening for signals at that period.
		And so we started doing it.
		And it just became the paradigm.
		You know, it just became the way SETI went.
		You know, this whole field was inhabited by people who were brought up on ham radio.
		And they just liked listening for signals from afar.
		And that's what they did.
		And it just became center stage.
		And we ignored our own backyard.
		And the other reason I think that scientists have tended to look away from our own solar system for evidence of alien presence is the very fact of UFOs, you know, and the way, you know, UFOs have been elevated in some ways in the popular mind.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, most astronomers are huff and puff.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Scientists don't like to be associated with anything that they consider to be fringe or marginal because their jobs are at stake.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So if they found it several thousand light years away, that would be cool.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But finding it here would just lose you your career.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, no, looking for it, looking for it locally would cause your colleagues to think, what the heck are you doing?
		And it was the same with astrobiology until recently.
		If you were involved in looking for any kind of life within the solar system, you were out on the fringe, you were out on the margins of Orthodox science.
		So that's only just become respectable.
		So getting SETI, local SETI respectable has taken even longer.
		But it's now becoming okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here's a really serious question for you, Professor.
		If you want to try to answer, you can.
		But we've had controversies about the moon missions that the U.S. did.
		We've had controversies about trips to Mars.
		And then when you consider trips to other possible planets that could hold life, for example, you've got to go a very, very long way for a very long time under conditions that some would suggest the human body will never, ever be able to sustain.
		That's a very important question.
		In other words, we're never going to be spacefarers.
		We're not cut out for it physically.
		We couldn't make long trips under any circumstances.
		What do you say to that?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Well, just as in the solar system, the first thing we're going to do if we ever travel to the stars is send out robot probes first.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Robot probes, all right.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		So, you know, that's almost inevitable that it'll be dominated by robot explorers for quite a while before any humans set foot.
		The biggest problem, really, is speed, you know.
		To get to the nearest star, the nearest star, that's the Alpha Centauri system, which is just over four light years away.
		If you were able to get to one-tenth the speed of light, you know, light is pretty fast, 186,000 miles every second.
		If you could get to one-tenth the speed of that, which is a heck of a lot, it would still take you half a lifetime to get to the nearest star.
		And that just gives you some idea of how, it just blows your mind.
		Even as an astronomer, you can't get your head around.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, but even the time aspect aside for a second, because maybe we will learn to go fast.
		Throw away that one for a moment.
		I'm talking about our physiology, our human physiology being unable to sustain itself for long periods way out there, not in low Earth orbit, but way out there.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		I don't think that way out there makes any difference.
		You're still in space.
		There's really no more dangers to being in interstellar space than there is in interplanetary space.
unidentified		In fact, it's safer in some respects because there's less muscles atrophying, that's what I'm saying.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, you'd have to have artificial gravity.
		There's no question about it.
		You'd have to have some part of the spacecraft that was rotating to give you, you know, like in 2001, they have that spinning part of the spacecraft, you know, and it gives them gravity.
		You'd need that.
		You're going to need something like that to get to Mars, for goodness sake, you know.
		You can't be away from the Earth for years and in virtually zero gravity.
		This is something people miss about the trip to Mars.
		You know, you can't do it without artificial gravity.
		There's just no way.
		Human body cannot, you know, the bones waste away, the muscles, the heart shrinks, everything.
		It's a major, major issue.
		So, you know, there's no question about it.
		If you're going to go on, unless you've got like wart drive where you can get there in a few minutes or something, you know, you're going to have to have artificial gravity.
		But that's not really such a big deal.
		I mean, if you can fly to the stars, you can rotate part of the spacecraft.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so you're saying physiologically it could be done?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Physiologically, yeah, I think so.
		I think the biggest issue as far as survival goes would be protection from radiation, you know, cosmic rays and that kind of thing, which could really damage the cell structure, you know, and you're going to get exposed to a lot of that in space.
		But again, radiation shielding would hopefully block some of that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, let's come back to Earth for a moment.
		What probability do you attach to the view that they are already here, that we are in fact being observed or have been observed at some point?
		What probability would you attach to that?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		To actual extraterrestrials in person having visited the Earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Either observing us now or having visited at some point during human occupation.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		I think I personally would rank it higher than probably most scientists would.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		I think there's a very good, I don't know kind of how percentage-wise, but maybe slightly less than 50-50, but somewhere around that, I would say approximately 50-50.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's pretty high.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		It's pretty high, for the very reason that within the past few years we have realized that we have the capability to identify life on extrasolar worlds and even advanced life eventually.
		And other beings that are, say, a million years ahead of us, which isn't that much in terms of galaxy terms, are going to know that.
		They're going to know we're here or there is advanced life here, so there's something of interest on the Earth.
		And therefore, it becomes a focal point of attention for anthropological studies, for aliens who are interested in how intelligence evolves.
		They might want to be here in person to track that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, if you've imagined all of this, then have you imagined there would be the equivalent of a non-intervention kind of policy?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		I think that's most likely.
		I think that if, you know, I would really say that's almost certain in the case where, you know, extraterrestrials do intervene or do our present watching.
		They will not want to, you know, affect us in any way.
		Just as we do on Earth, you know, if you're doing an anthropological study on a native tribe or something, you don't want to.
		You have to to some extent.
		If you're there, there's bound to be some involvement, but you want to just observe and not affect.
		So yeah, I would say that probably is very much the case.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that leads to all kinds of other questions, but it begins to get awfully speculative about, for example, our environment.
		If we're about to go off a cliff with the environment, and it sure feels like we're about to go off a cliff, or about to blow ourselves up, exchange missiles with the Russians or whatever, some biological disaster.
		I don't know, but whether there would be intervention at some apocalyptic point.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think that's a very good point.
		And I was actually going to come to that.
		I think we are at a crisis point.
		I'm very much of the view that this planet doesn't have very much longer unless we change our ways, you know, a few centuries perhaps at most before we make it uninhamedable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a very strong statement.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Uninhabitable as a result of what, do you think?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		The destruction of the ozone layer, exposure of the surface to intense solar ultraviolet, global warming, which is going to melt the polar ice gaps, which is happening already, raising the sea level, therefore making most of the low-lying areas of the Earth uninhabitable, therefore causing massive overcrowding.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Professor, a lot of scientists, politically-minded ones, are saying, oh, pooey.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		These are all some sort of natural cycles that we're attributing to human behavior, and it's all baloney.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		And that itself is baloney and is dangerous thinking, and it's delaying the remedy.
		It's unfortunate, and it's motivated by the fact that a lot of these scientists are involved with political groups that have interests in the oil industry and so forth, and don't really want to curb it, and don't want to curb consumerism.
		And unfortunately, it's all retarding the eventual cure.
		It's a very dangerous approach.
		Most environmental scientists know very well what's happening.
		The global changes are afoot, and they've been going on for a number of decades now.
		And it's time that these other scientists got on it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It does seem as though some aspects of the environmental erosion, particularly at the north and south parts of the world, are accelerating, as though we've gone past a certain kind of a trip point or something, and there has been an acceleration.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Because, man, I'll tell you, every week, Professor, I read more and more stories that are profoundly disturbing about what's falling apart and melting.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		I am absolutely with you on that.
		And it's incredible that not everybody is realizing this.
		I personally think that most people are and that they have other motivations for turning a blind eye to it, but it's happening.
		Absolutely, it's happening.
		Whether it's those or not is irrelevant, it's happening, you know, and we have to try and do something about it, or else we're destroying our habitat, basically, and the habitat of other species, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You think, then, there might be some sort of intervention, and we might not be, but a couple of centuries from it at most, or even sooner?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think there's two possibilities.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Either we're simply under surveillance, and there is simply a non-intervention policy, and that if this species is so stupid and so dangerous that it's going to destroy itself, well, let it, because we don't want it out of its own planet doing the same thing elsewhere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What they would think of as an infestation.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Infestation, right.
		So we're kind of like a virus that might infect the galaxy.
		Or it may be a phase, and I think this is perhaps the case, that all technological civilizations go through, and maybe elder ones give a helping hand to get you through it.
		So yeah, it could go either way, I guess.
		I mean, what do I know?
		But I think I can see both possibilities, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But either way, you think we're not very far from going off the cliff or having somebody intervene and saying, oh, you're about to go off a cliff here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Either way, we're within a couple of centuries of that.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, or maybe, and hopefully we'll come to our own senses and do something about it, too.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		So I have to a third possibility in there, in which case, you know, maybe they'll watch and hope and we'll sort it out ourselves.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The coming to our own senses one doesn't seem the most probable as I look around.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		I actually, when I was younger, I tend to get a little bit more cynical as I get older, but when I was younger, I was quite optimistic that we would.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		And actually, I still am.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, when you're young, you can change the world.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you can change the world and you're immortal and everything.
		But I still think, you know, because we're part of the system.
		A lot of people say, well, humanity is destroying nature, but we're actually part of nature, of course.
		We're part of the whole global system.
		And we have a very strong survival instinct, actually, because we're top dogs.
		You don't get to be top dog if you don't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Romans were top dogs.
		My point is that I'm reading all of these stories every week, and these seem like big stories, you know.
		Antarctic glaciers melting, ice flows falling apart, the north, you know, polar bears disappearing.
		I'm reading all these stories every week, but I'm not seeing them on the ABC Evening News, CBS Evening News, NBC.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		It's not on our doorstep yet.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		It's not on our doorstep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it depends on how you consider our doorstep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is our doorstep begin, you know, the East Coast and the West Coast?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Literally, almost literally, our doorstep.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		I think until the garbage starts piling out outside your door or, you know, maybe the Floridians are starting to get some kind of message.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Professor, hold on.
		We're at the top of the hour.
		I'm Mark Bell.
unidentified		This is Coast to Coast A.M. To
		talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Art Bell from East to the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
		From West to the Rockies, call ARC at 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach Art Bell by calling your in-country sprint access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And astronomer David Darling, very good morning to you.
unidentified		How are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's just now, of course, become morning here on the West Coast.
		And morning will now rush west toward the Hawaiian Islands, but we'll be back in just a moment.
		It's absolutely apparent the professor thinks that instead of men, if we wish to contact another civilization, he thinks we would send machines, I believe.
		And so then, by extension, it seems to me that another civilization would send machines, send machines here in search for life or in monitoring life, but not send biological entities, but rather machines or perhaps sort of biological entities engineered to run the machines.
		So I guess, Professor, I'm asking if some of these UFOs that we see might not be alien probes, machines.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and I think that's something that we need to start taking really seriously.
		I mean, UFOs must include a whole slew of phenomena, you know, from hoaxes to natural phenomena like, you know, ball lightning.
		And I think we really do have to consider the possibility that some of them are these very probes that we've been talking about.
		And, you know, I think scientists tend to shy away from that possibility, but I do know that quite a few of them in private do consider that to be a possibility.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In private, you say.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, exactly, because, you know, the word, the term UFO is still kind of a don-no in scientific circles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I know.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		You know, the way it goes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		And, you know, it's just used to be flying sauce and now it's UFO, whatever you call it.
		You know, it just carries that stigma as far as mainstream science is concerned.
		But there is a phenomenon there.
		There's a range of phenomena.
		And one of them, one possibility, and science should consider every possibility and it shouldn't be afraid to, you know, tread into ground that is perhaps considered controversial.
		But there is that possibility that some of these lights that we see, and I've spoken to people, I know that some of these phenomena are unexplained and they pose a challenge to science.
		Some of them do appear to be intelligently directed.
		So we need to take this data seriously.
unidentified		Good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's sure nice to hear people saying that.
		Here recently, a team for Peter Jennings came to interview me, and they promised it's going to be a two-hour special with Peter Jennings on exactly this.
		It's not frequently you see the mainstream media stepping in and taking a hard look and that's what they promised.
		They better deliver.
		Anyway, they were here and so they're beginning to take a look at it.
		But here's an extension question, Professor.
		If these machines have been here or are here now and one of them perhaps crashed or whatever, we have these very strong stories, as I'm sure you're well aware, of retrieval of what are called alien artifacts or alien craft, some of them stories that include biological entities with them and all the rest of it.
		Now, I don't know about you, but to me, it is possible that one of them crashed, and if it did, I don't think our government would tell us.
		Do you?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		It's a very good question.
		I mean, the thing, I don't have any inside information that I can pass on, unfortunately, so I can't really sort of, I'm just speculating just like everyone else.
		Of course, governments keep secrets.
		We know that.
		They do that habitually all the time, and they do misinform, and they do things to manipulate the situation to their own end.
		We know that.
		That's just the way governments have always worked, you know.
		The part of it that I find a little bit difficult to believe is that you couldn't do this without involving scientists.
		And, you know, scientists don't like to keep secrets.
		I know they do keep secrets because, of course, you've got people working on military projects and they're not allowed to disclose information.
		But something like that, I don't know whether you could keep it under wraps.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not sure it has been kept under wraps.
		I mean, I've interviewed a lot of very credible people who have said incredible things.
		But, you know, all these things pile on top of each other and they're all sort of thrown into the same pile.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Well, all I could say is that a true scientist does not throw out any possibility until you've really, really researched into it.
		And just to say, oh, I can't believe that, it just couldn't possibly happen.
		Just because you don't personally like the idea, you know, is not true science.
		So if you want my personal opinion, I would kind of lean towards the opinion that it's less likely than more likely.
		And I know some people will say, oh, there he goes, he's another scientist.
		But that's my personal view.
		I'll keep an open mind on it until somebody comes forward with some evidence that I can.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's talk about evidence for a moment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If somebody claimed to have an alien artifact, or maybe let's say a piece of a ship, or some material that wasn't of Earth, from their point of view, it was from a crash or something like that, how would you or could you absolutely verify the artifact is alien?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		You'd first of all have to get it into a pretty sophisticated materials lab and put it under spectrometers and all the rest of it.
		And you'd be looking for a material that, you know, an obviously artificial material, some alloy or other substance, crystalline substance or what have you, that we knew nothing about on Earth.
		So you'd be looking for something unusual.
		That kind of is obvious, but it is the first thing you'd look for.
		If you could demonstrate conclusively that this was an artificial material, and that wouldn't be too difficult to do, and then go beyond that and look at the catalogue of known materials and say, well, this doesn't correspond to anything we know, then the lights start to go on, and you think maybe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I had such a piece of material, David.
		I had such a piece of material.
		It went to Carnegie.
		It emitted, you know, I've got the report somewhere.
		It emitted a whole bunch more of something than it was supposed to have.
		It was layers of bismuth and, you know, I've got to go back now.
		So many years ago, bismuth, I believe, in magnesium, made in such a way that it couldn't be duplicated, and there were many who tried.
		But still, over the years, yes, then it was declared it's anomalous.
		We don't know where it is.
		We don't know how to make it.
		We couldn't duplicate it.
		So it's anomalous.
		It slips through the years.
		So would it really be identified?
		And would somebody yell out, alien?
		Could they be that sure?
		I'm not so sure.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Well, the first thing is that scientists, you know, they're kind of hide-bound characters.
		Unless somebody produces an actual paper, it's published in Nature or Science or some reputable, what they call reputable journal, they're not going to sort of get too excited about it.
		So I don't know if Carnegie Mellon or the researchers involved actually wrote a paper that was published, but if they didn't, then it would enter, in the scientists' opinion, the realm of hearsay and be dismissed in that fashion, you know.
		So the questions would be, well, what's happened to the material now, and is it available for further research, and what happened to the original research, and who wrote what?
		you know, he gets muddied water.
		So that's what the position of a scientist...
		And most scientists are just journeymen.
		They're doing pretty routine stuff.
		They're not looking for extraterrestrial samples or philosophizing.
		They're just kind of going into their labs day after day looking at substance X or whatever.
		They're in this narrow little field, like I say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, let us get philosophical for a moment.
		If contact was made, no matter how it came, whether it came as a SETI signal or it came through some sort of actual contact from another civilization, how do you think it would be handled by the masses?
		You know, there's the old Brookings report suggestion of how it might unfold not so pleasantly.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I guess it would depend on the nature of it, you know.
		I mean, if it was, you know, the old classic of the flying saucer landing on the White House lawn, you know, obviously it's sensational.
		But even so, even if that happened, you'd still get this period of uncertainty.
		You know, is it really an alien spaceship?
		Is it somebody filming a movie?
		Is it a hoax?
		You know, and the media would get it, and all of a sudden it would be everywhere, a little bit like the SETI story that we had.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if it happened today, I'm sure the president would claim that we've met a new civilization, and Kerry would say it's a big stunt.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
unidentified		Yeah, it would be manipulated somehow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You bet.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		And of course, with it being election year, that's exactly how the public would view it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		There would always be that.
		But in the general case, it would just depend on what it was.
		How spectacular was it?
		How certain were the scientists that this was the real McCall?
		It's hard to say.
		I think if it was really strong, strong evidence that was almost indisputable, I don't know what you'd get panic.
		I mean, it depends.
		I mean, it was like an invasion threat, maybe, but if it was just like a really strong signal and, you know, a sort of encyclopedia galactica or something coming over the radio waves, people would get excited, but it wouldn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It wouldn't tear apart civilizations.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		No, maybe it would change in the long term, I think, but it wouldn't cause panic.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		If the flying source had descended from the skies, then you'd see people running to the hills.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think you're right.
		I really do think you're right.
		All right.
		Off on another limb here.
		Could there be any alien in us?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		In our genes.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		In our genetic genes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In our genetic.
		In fact, I believe that there's still a big missing link, and they are not exactly sure how man leapt forth on the planet.
		We don't exactly have that nailed down yet, right?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Exactly, yeah.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		And it was a spectacular flowering.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A big leap, right?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, we just sort of came from nowhere, as it were.
		I mean, certainly civilization, it happened just in a blink of an eye, really, in geological terms.
		It was just fantastic.
		So yeah, I mean, that's one possibility that you've got sort of some, well, this is kind of like the 2001 scenario, isn't it?
		Where you get the black monolith that passes on some kind of It's called junk DNA.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		It's just there, you know.
		And he said, well, that would be a great place, a great place to put a message.
		You can store a heck of a lot of information in DNA.
		I mean, enough to all the instructions for a human being.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, brother.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We've already got the Bible code, you know, and so now they're going to start looking at the DNA and they're going to find heaven knows what.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, it's a possibility.
		And what better way to store it?
		If you want to pass on information, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		But encode it, you know, millions of years ago in this junk DNA that's eventually going to get passed down to whatever intelligent species evolves on that planet.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		And only when they have the technology to analyze that DNA, which is just about where we are now, are they going to be able to read the message perfectly?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I never even thought of that.
unidentified		A message in our DNA.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		It's the most compressed way in nature of storing information.
		It's a perfect solution, you know.
		So maybe that's where the junk DNA is, the message from the stars.
		We just have to get to that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Has anybody taken a look at DNA from that perspective?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll bet not.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		On a practical basis, not on an experimental basis, just a kind of a suggestion.
		Nobody's really taking that seriously, you know.
		Because you'd be looking at it from a whole different perspective.
		Instead of programming proteins to do this and that, you're looking for actual binary, maybe, data in there.
		And it's a whole different ballgame.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How did you arrive at this?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is fascinating.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's just not really my idea.
		Like I say, Paul Davis, this Australian astronomer, cosmologist, initiated that idea, but I kind of just extended that to, you know, from what I just told you there.
		It just seems like a pretty neat solution.
		And I think the idea that you really do need that technology, you know, you have to be able to analyze the DNA.
		So you have to be at a certain level in your technology at the point, you know, and that's when alien intelligence would be interested in you.
		So there it is for millions of years, and all of a sudden you crack the code.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What an incredible concept that there is a whole message there.
		Just, well, let's go further out on the limb.
		If there was a message there, what do you even hypothesize that message might mean or might be?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Well, it could be like a series of instructions because it may be that all technological species go through the kind of crises that we're going through right now, and it will be at the point where their technology, you know, first reaches roughly where we are.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		You know, when you start to get these kind of advanced technologies and you're able to pollute the planet and cause all these environmental crises, that's the point at which you need the warning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe it'll just say, if you can read this, you're dead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know why I'm laughing.
		I have no idea why I'm laughing.
		I'm sorry.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		That would be a sick message, wouldn't it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've obviously advanced technologically to the point where you can now read this, which means you have done the following.
		And your ice is melting, and your oceans are swelling, and your hurricanes are getting bigger.
		Basically, bye-bye.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		Congratulations, you're dead, yeah.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Or here's the solution to how you get out to it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There you are.
unidentified		Which I think is more, well, probably, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or perhaps, as in the movie Contact, the instructions for reaching out from Earth way past the speed of light would be encoded.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, man, what a concept.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		And then you kind of join the Galactic Club.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're talking movie here.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're really talking movie here.
		I've never heard this.
		I've never considered this.
		but what what a concept and it would be by our Well, you mean that they've altered our DNA, so they've created us?
		Is that what you're saying?
		Well, I guess.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Well, not necessarily if it's in a part of the DNA that doesn't racially encode us.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		You know, it's kind of a surplus.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, yes, but to most, Professor, there's only one designer.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so that, you know, it might not be readily accepted, but it still is a whale of a concept.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		And it's a perfectly reasonable one.
		Each step of it is okay.
		It's perfectly scientific, if you like.
		It makes sense.
		So maybe that's what we'll do eventually.
		When we get to be very advanced a million years hence, we might be seeding DNA around that gap.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Either that or maybe it instructs us how to breathe and enjoy large amounts of carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide and all sorts of chemical mixes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, right.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		So you don't have to get rid of the pollution.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		You just get used to it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You learn to love it, like the bomb.
		But the whole, anyway, folks, drifting away, but the concept of a message within our DNA, within this so-called, we call junk DNA, maybe it's not junk at all.
		Maybe, well, some would say it once had a purpose, or it may, in our evolutionary path, yet have a purpose, or maybe it's just a message.
		All right.
		That would also suggest, Professor, that we are the aliens.
		That we were designed in the fashion you suggested possible and that we basically are the aliens, right?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Well, th that we are part alien at least, yeah, that we are uh not entirely of this world, as it were.
		Yeah, yeah, there's certainly that uh whole aspect to it, you know.
		I mean, we are extraterrestrial after all, and we come from stardust, whatever, you know, we do come from the stars in that sense, and maybe information-wise, we can.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Stay close to that phone for me.
		Okay, there you go.
		Okay, big difference.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Right, uh, you know, we are materially extraterrestrial, and maybe also, uh, you know, as we say, you know, part of our actual information makeup is alien as well.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Entirely possible, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, indeed.
		All right, Professor, hold on.
		We've got lots more territory to cover.
		My guest is Professor David Darling, an astronomer, and a British astronomer at that.
		And we're discussing the possibility of life.
		Life, just period life, I guess, here or there.
unidentified		on market this is the same the same
		I am fire, baby.
		It's a living thing.
		No!
		The End
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art bell ▲ ● ▼		Astronomer David Darling is my guest.
		This is such an incredible concept.
		There really is, that our junk DNA contains a message, perhaps from our designers, that it's not junk DNA at all, but like the Bible code, there's a message encoded.
		And we're simply supposed to get to the point, and we are very close to that, having just unraveled the human genome, where we can read the message in the junk DNA.
		Let's have a little contest, shall we?
		What do you think of the 10 most likely things that our junk DNA will say when it's unraveled?
		I await your email.
		Once again, Professor David Darling.
		Professor, I have, again, watched American movies and, oh, I don't know, endless television programs on the subject and done a million radio programs myself.
		And the popular view across America, probably across the world, has been developed by E.T., with the little warm, fuzzy little thing that hides in the kids' closet and all that.
		It's very friendly.
		Just loves kids and little dogs.
		Then there's another side presented by people like Dr. David Jacobs and others who say, no, wait a minute.
		There is no guarantee that these intelligent beings will necessarily be friendly.
		What do you think about that?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Well, we've only got ourselves to go off, really.
		But if you look at us, you know, we're the products of four billion years of live-and-let-die evolution, right?
		We haven't survived by always being nice.
		We're tribalistic, we're confrontational.
		We're really the most dangerous creature on the planet in many ways, you know.
		We haven't changed.
		We've not changed over the past 10,000 years, say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We are at war a lot.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we like it.
		That's what we do.
		We look after ourselves, and there's always an us-and-them situation.
		We're very tribalistic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then you think that an alien race would probably notice that.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but they might also be like us.
		Maybe that's the way evolution always goes.
		You've always got that streak of violence and confrontation and looking after your own species first.
		So I'm kind of in that camp of that an advanced alien probably has overcome some of those tendencies, you know, and isn't going to be just invasion mad.
		They're not going to be Klingons necessarily.
		But even the Vulcans have wars, you know, in Star Trek.
		So I think they've probably both, you know, they'll be kind of human in that sense.
		So potentially dangerous, and they will tend to put themselves first because that's how they've got to be top dogs.
		And, you know, so there'll be a little bit of both.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And because that's how the universe works, not just the world, but probably the whole universe.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		The universe is a tough place to live, it's a tough place to survive.
		And if you've got to be top dog after billions of years, you've got that streak in you.
		And I don't think unless you kind of genetically engineer it out of yourself, and I don't even know that's possible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And if you do, well, maybe it is possible, but if you did that, then you'd have a bunch of very compliant, going nowhere kind of creatures.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's that very aggression.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, exactly.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		And the kind of creature that's going to colonize the galaxy or he's going to explore between the stars is going to have that sort of pushiness about it, that sort of ambition.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it's a possibility when they land, they'll be all like New Yorkers.
unidentified		Well, yeah, maybe so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, I think it's important to at least keep in mind that they would probably develop along a similar evolutionary line.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Life would tend to do that, and so they would be top dog, and we might not be.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		And we almost certainly wouldn't be, because, you know, we've only had, well, we've only been flying for a century, of heaven's sake.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		You know, this is the centenary of flight, isn't it?
unidentified		Yes.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		And we've gone a long way in that time, of course.
		We've got Jupiter probes now, but still, we're going to be right at the bottom of the ladder in terms of technological development.
		So any extraterrestrial we come across, intelligent extraterrestrial, it's going to be more advanced than us.
		And in many cases, way, way, way ahead, millions of years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How much of a probability, Professor, do you attach to the at least possibility that when we do encounter some other intelligence, what we consider to be intelligence, it will not be biological, it'll be artificial, it'll be machine, it'll be artificial intelligence.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think there's a high probability, very, very high probability, that it will at least be partly artificial, you know, because that's, again, you know, we're going off what's happening here.
		You know, we've got computers, we've got robots, we're developing brain-computer links.
		It's not going to be long before, you know, you're not going to be tapping away at the Internet on your keyboard.
		You're going to actually be connected neurally to the Internet.
		That's going to happen within probably decades, I would say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So all you've got to do is think Google.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Think Google, right?
		Yes, exactly.
		That's where they're going.
		That's why their stock's flying so high.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If you could ask three questions of an extraterrestrial, this is one of those pre-programmed questions, what would they be?
		That's really intriguing.
		If you could ask three questions and only three, what would you ask?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Personally, the first one would probably be, is time travel possible?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Because that's always been something that's fascinating.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, God bless you.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		And I would want to know, is it physically possible to travel backwards and forwards in time?
		Not just using relativity and those kind of little bits, short circuits and things like that, but genuine time travel to anywhere you want.
		That would be the first one, which I would think an advanced extraterrestrial would have sorted out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's come back to time travel, okay.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		And then the second one would be, do you believe there's a cosmic intelligence or a god or whatever you want to call it, you know, but some kind of omniscient being, you know?
		The designer, to use your own term, you know?
		That would be number two.
		And just what their religion is, basically.
		It's kind of neat, you know, what their beliefs are.
		And then I suppose my third question is kind of cheating, but my third question would be, if you had three questions, what would they be?
		In other words, what are their unknowns?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My first two questions would be the same as yours.
		I don't know if they'd be in that order, but they'd be the same.
		I'm such a fan of the whole concept of time travel.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's such a, it is just so intriguing, and it would give you such a power as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the other thing is that a lot of theoretical physicists now, Professor, really are beginning to talk about the possibilities of time travel more seriously all the time.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, definitely.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		And various ways of doing it, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Going into the past is a little bit more problematic than going into the future because the whole business of changing things and then what happens.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's the popular view, isn't it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And if you couldn't go into the past and you could only go into the future, then you'd never be able to go home.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Possibly, yeah.
		Well, I don't know.
		Maybe I don't know how it would work.
		But certainly if you use relative, you know, just if you travel really fast, you know, we know that you can sort of get into the future.
		You know, if you travel near the speed of light, you effectively jump into the future relative to where you were.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there are theoretical physicists now who believe that the paradox is not a problem because if you were to go back in time and do something that was a catastrophic paradox, simply another universe, another bubble would form and everything would unfold in a different way.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Right, right.
		And yeah, that would be the perfect way around the paradox.
		It's not a very economical way, you know, because just going back, you suddenly create a whole universe, it seems fantastic.
		But of course, it's not really fantastic because astronomers, cosmologists are talking about that all the time, that we're just one universe of many, perhaps an infinite number of universes out there.
		So that isn't a particularly far-fetched idea in terms of even just mainstream physics these days, you know.
		So, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If we do encounter another intelligence and we ask them about a God, what would you expect their answer to be?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've got very complicated views about God, which would probably fill an entire separate show.
		And I've written several books on it, like Zen Physics and Soul Search and stuff.
		And I'm constantly revising my own ideas, which I think is what you should do, actually.
		It's kind of like an adventure, really.
		I would think they would probably respond somewhat in the positive.
		I think that I personally believe there is some sort of intelligence behind the whole thing.
		I find it hard to believe there isn't, but whether it would correspond to any of our traditional gods, a Christian god or what have you, I've no idea.
		I'd be fascinated to know if it did.
		You know, if it sort of made one of our religions the winner in a sense, you know?
		I think it might actually possibly disprove them all and they might have come to some totally different conclusion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Going close to that phone.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm trying to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There you are.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Yeah, I think it'd be kind of extend this whole nature of this whole business of comparative religion way out into the galaxy.
		I think it would be neat to compare religions between planets.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you feel that they would have some kind of belief, some kind of something in something.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I really think that many scientists think this too, whether they're Christians or Buddhists or what have you.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		I think even science in many ways points to not necessarily design, but an orchestrating force behind everything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I interviewed this really wonderful fellow who wrote a book called The God Part of the Brain.
		He contends that we are programmed to worship.
		That the human brain is programmed to worship.
		And sure enough, you know, he's right.
		If you go and you meet with a jungle tribe that's never been exposed to modern civilization, you know, they're sacrificing something to something or worshiping the sun or worshiping something that we're programmed to worship.
		And I wonder if that might be in some of that junk DNA.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, possibly.
		That's an idea I hadn't thought of before.
		You know, I mean, I think that we have to, most people anyway, I guess, you know, atheists would be the obvious exception, but I mean, most people have to believe in something.
		The possibility that when you die, that's it.
		You just snuffed out like a candle, I think, is just not acceptable to most people.
		So somebody in the past once said if there isn't a God, we'd have to invent him or it.
		And that's probably true.
		But that says nothing about whether there really is a God or not.
		That's just what we would have to believe anyway.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you believe there is some form of conscious existence following physical death?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I do.
		And that really is the core of my book, Zen Physics.
		My personal belief is that the brain does not actually produce consciousness.
		This is an old idea.
		I'm not the creator of this idea, but I certainly support it.
		The brain doesn't create consciousness.
		It actually filters it.
		The consciousness is a field, if you like, like energy and radiation.
		But it's out there, basically.
		there is a sea, a field of consciousness, into which each brain taps, you know, and filters it down into our individual state of existence.
		I do believe that...
		Yeah, well, I mean, the brain obviously does a whole lot.
		It handles memory, intelligence, all those kind of things.
		There's survival, you know.
		But too much consciousness is not good.
		I mean, we only need to be aware of a little bit that's going on.
		It doesn't help us to survive, to know in detail what's happening throughout the universe, you know.
		We just are kind of evolved to just tap into a small bit of what we need to to survive.
		And I think that's what the brain's primary function is, is to reduce the consciousness that's available.
		And then when you die, when the brain effectively ceases to operate, that safety valve, if you like, is then no longer needed and is discarded.
		and all of a sudden, you, when you cease to exist, so the kind of language becomes difficult here, but instead of you, there suddenly is everything.
		And that corresponds with many near-death experiences where people...
		Yeah, instead of, you know, because what you'd expect at death, if there's nothing after death, is you get a narrowing of consciousness.
		And it would be kind of like, you know, it would be like the James Bond shutter, you know, where it kind of closes up and that's it.
		It's blackness.
		And instead, people give entirely the opposite testimony that, in fact, the one universal characteristic of near-death experiences is that consciousness widens.
		Why should it do that if the brain's closing down?
		So that kind of fits in with what I believe about the nature of consciousness.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you read a number of books on life after death?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		I've read a few of them, yeah.
unidentified		Yes.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		And, you know, I've not had a near-death experience myself.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		I suppose it's kind of a minority experience, but we all obviously all will in the end.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Excuse me, did you say you did have one?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		No, I didn't.
		I haven't had one, so I'm kind of having to go off other testaments, but so many of these are told with such conviction that they're not, I don't believe they're hallucinations.
		I think people are actually telling what has really happened.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do too.
		I do too.
		But I'm not sure that translates to concrete proof.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		It doesn't.
		It doesn't.
		And no, it doesn't.
		And if we had concrete proof, then we wouldn't need religion.
		But it is such a powerful experience that people have.
		And why should the brain produce that experience when it's dying?
		Why should it bother to produce any experience when you're only going to live for a few more minutes anyway, it thinks?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Endorphins.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm just saying living off with what they say.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		That would kind of make it pleasant.
		But why should a person, instead of suddenly having this narrow, selfish, private view of the world, all of a sudden, when the brain is just about to shut down, all of a sudden they say, I wasn't there, but everything else was.
		And I was just suddenly, I couldn't put it into words, but everything was suddenly there.
		That seems to me a very, very striking experience.
		And yes, you could explain it in terms of chemicals.
		And maybe you can always reduce it to physical terms, you know?
		That doesn't take away from what may be the higher reality of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have wondered for a very long time if what we call the metaphysical now, the kind of thing we're talking about right now, and science, will ever actually find a place where they meet.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and I believe they will, but maybe we won't call it science or we won't call it spirituality anymore.
		We will just call it knowledge, you know.
		Because science is not really science these days.
		Science is kind of reducing things down to its nuts and bolts.
		It's a reductionist thing.
		And it misses the big picture.
		Science cannot deal with issues like consciousness.
		It tends to try and analyze it in terms of little compartments in the brain, and it tries to take it to pieces.
		And it loses the big picture.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Professor, you are aware there are some very serious experiments beginning to go on at places like Princeton and elsewhere with regard to consciousness.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm actually involved in some discussions with people who are doing those sort of experiments.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, are you?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's right, yeah.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		So Gary Schwartz, Arizona, and a few others.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Some of it's quite remarkable.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Some of it's very, very remarkable.
		I mean, I'm fascinated by it.
		And what I'm trying to do is to look at the methodology.
		I really want to know how they gather their data because I want to exclude all possibility of extraneous.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, some of it sure does seem like hard science.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, some of it looks really, really interesting.
		I'm more kind of interested at the moment in the near-death experience than I am in mediums and things like that.
		But the whole business interests me because I think some of these people are tapping into this field of consciousness.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, one large looming question about these near-death experiences would be that only a small percentage who code and then come back have them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a big looming question.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but there's enough commonality, I suppose.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of the ones who do.
		Well, there is that.
		That's right.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you might expect that, you know, and even between cultures, you know, it doesn't matter whether they're a Hindu or a Jew or what have you.
		A lot of these experiences are common.
		They're not sort of parochial to whatever you happen to believe in.
		They're just, you know, they're just there.
		And I think that's kind of telling.
		There's all sorts of reasons why people may not have the experiences.
unidentified		They may have them and not remember them, for instance.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		It's hard to say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Possible.
		And there's even a small percentage of them that are negative, not positive.
		They didn't go out and embrace the universe.
		They went virtually to hell.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a small number, but they're there.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but it's the best data we have.
		These people are like sample.
		You know, you send a sample return probe maybe to the moon or Mars and you bring back a little piece of information.
		They're like sample return probes into the region of death.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They are.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		They're the best we have.
		Unless anybody's prepared to volunteer.
		What was that film called a number of years ago?
		Was it Flatliners?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's called the Flatliners.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they were volunteers, student volunteers.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Right, right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Listen, hold on, Professor.
		We're going to come back and go to the phones here in a minute.
		I'm Art Bell.
		Professor David Darling is my guest.
unidentified		Thank you.
		Now you step inside, but you don't seem to me.
		Thank you.
		To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is Area Code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Art Bell from East of the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
		From West of the Rockies, call ART at 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach Art Bell by calling your in-country sprint access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we've obviously got a professor here, Professor David Darling, an astronomer who thinks outside the bots, way outside the bots.
		So this should be interesting.
		Any questions you may have, this would be the appropriate time for them, and we just gave you the numbers.
		So if you'll stay right there, it's about to be all yours.
unidentified		The End.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The End By the way, I promised I would change the photograph up on my webcam, and I did.
		Earlier today, the cat you saw up there first, Yeti, who's the new one of the bunch, I kicked a rock off the porch, and he thought he saw this rock move.
		And so the other cat in the photograph, that's Abby.
		That had a near-death experience, Abby.
		13-year-old, 14-year-old cat now.
		Brilliant old cat now, but healthy as hell.
		It was great.
		And when Yeti thought he saw this rock, he climbed over Abby, and he was looking at this rock, and Abby had an expression on his face like, get that body off me, or the next move you make will be your last one.
		Well, the Egyptians worship cats, you know, and they remember that today.
		All right.
		Professor, welcome back.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		Nice to be here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're going to go to the phones now, and you're liable to encounter anything.
		But you sound pretty much open for that.
		Sure.
		All right, then, here we go.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Professor Darling.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hello, Art.
		How are you this evening?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Quite well, sir.
unidentified		First-time caller, long-time listener, and I want to applaud you for your ability to bring alternative thinking to kind of a myopic populace for the most part.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I hope so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, what's up?
unidentified		Well, I was curious if the professor had any knowledge as far as alien, an alien kind of being or beings that I'm calling from the desert in Arizona.
		I've spent a lot of time on the reservation and Native American ceremonies.
		And several medicine men that I'm familiar with and spend a great deal of time with are of the thought that an alien presence, they call them Star People or Star Nation people, are trying to save the planet with crop circles and using symbols in Wales and in the British countryside in an effort to heal the planet.
		I was wondering if he'd had any thoughts on that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, all right.
		Let's ask that.
		Doctor, what about it?
		There are crop circles, and many do say they are signs or messages that we can't interpret yet.
		And maybe they're just a couple guys in the field with boards and chains.
		But some of them, frankly, don't look like they could have been done by boards and chains.
		So it's kind of like UFOs, you know, some obviously are explained, and some, some are not.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
		I mean, I look at some of these very elaborate ones, and I wonder how the heck could you do that with a lawnmower, you know?
		So I keep an open mind on that.
		I think crop circles are interesting anyway.
		I mean, they're very historical.
		They go back centuries.
		We know that there weren't lawnmowers in those days.
		So whether they were that elaborate in those days or not, I don't know.
		So there's certainly some phenomenon there we don't understand.
		But I'm particularly interested in the link with the Native American beliefs there, because I've just started up a project with an astrobiologist at Washington State University.
		And this is really exciting because it's bringing everything we've talked about tonight in terms of aliens in the solar system right into the scientific mainstream.
		We're just starting a project, also including one of his postdocs, where we're trying to treat this whole subject scientifically and build a kind of catalogue of what kind of signs would we expect to find from alien presence, and how would we go about verifying if we did find those signs that they actually were extraterrestrial.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		And so I'm kind of keeping it anonymous at the moment, partly because we're just starting the project, we don't know where it's going to go.
		Secondly, because it is so controversial that the researcher in question who just moved to Washington State wants to keep it private until we know because he's open-minded enough to do it.
		He doesn't want ridicule from his colleagues, and so we're just moving privately on it at the moment, but we do have that.
		So if a caller would like to email me with details, I could feed that into the project.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, by the way, how does somebody do that?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you go to my website, you know, and then you'll see it right at the top, you know, a little bar that says email, and it's just DavidDarling at daviddarling.info.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		But you can do it through my website, and that's fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		DavidDarling at DavidDarling.info?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, DavidDarling.info is the website.
		www.davidarling.info is my website.
		And then you just stick David Darling in front of that and you can email me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I didn't know there was an info or something.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		I set it up a couple of years ago, so that's been...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Professor Darling.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, how are you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Quite well, sir.
unidentified		My question is this.
		I'm a graduate student at Embry-Riddle in Aeronautical Science, and through the research that you do as a student, I came across some information regarding the closing days of World War II, that the Germans were, in fact, experimenting with anti-gravity generators, and they did build three saucer-like craft to test them out in.
		And the SS, German SS, was sent, I think, in March of 1945 to destroy them.
		They were in Romania so that the Soviets wouldn't be able to confiscate them.
		And I just wonder if there's any truth in this, because this was due to British intelligence and the OSS, which was the forerunner of the CIA now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There were a lot of rumors about what the Nazis may have done, that sort of thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Professor, you hear anything about that?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Probably nothing more than the general public on that.
		I know there was a book written on that subject recently.
		I'm not sure who did that.
		Was it Nick Pope or someone, who covered that whole business of anti-gravity, including secret Nazi experiments on it?
		It wouldn't surprise me if they were looking at saucer-like crafts, because, of course, the U.S. Air Force was doing work on the Avro car and other things that were saucer-like in design.
		There's no question that you can make something like that fly.
		Whether they were actually making any progress on anti-gravity research is an entirely different question.
		They may have been trying to, whether they actually got anywhere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, stay close to that phone for me.
		Now, what about our anti-gravity research or anti-gravity research going on in the world in general right now?
		I know there was some interesting stuff done in Scandinavia somewhere.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and also I think it's been, you know, some of the aerospace companies over here, I'm not sure if it's Lockheed or Boeing, but it might have been Boeing actually, were entertaining the concept, you know, and I've had a group looking into it.
		Now, whether they're actually doing any practical experiments on it or not is another matter.
		There has been some, you know, there's been some research around.
		I just don't know how far it's gone.
		You know, anti-gravity in conventional physics is pretty way out there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, maybe so, but I'll...
		Professor, I'll tell you something.
		I saw a craft that was defying gravity.
		Now, maybe it was ours.
		Maybe it was theirs.
		I'll never have any way of knowing that for sure.
		But one thing's for sure, it was defying gravity.
		I saw that.
		Millions of Americans have seen it.
		Something's up there doing that.
		So I guess it's not so much of a surprise.
		Governments really can keep secrets.
		They kept the secret of the atom bomb.
		They kept the secret of the F-117 and a lot of other aircraft while they were under development.
		So I saw a program, I don't know, the other day on Discovery, I think it was, on what we've got right now that we don't talk much about.
		Well, then you've got to imagine what do we have really in the real secret, you know, Area 51s of the world.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, that's true.
unidentified		That's true.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		I mean, yeah, obviously they're further ahead than anything that's out in the open.
		That's quite clear.
		I mean, the stealth aircraft, you know, suddenly appeared from, you know, the shadows.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, you're a scientist.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you ever get other scientists whispering things in your ear about stuff they know?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you do.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you know, you get involved in groups with people who are...
		He's very, very, very, very convinced that he has been sort of being pulled, as he describes, by beings.
		He doesn't know.
		He calls them angels sometimes.
		Sometimes he calls them extraterrestrial.
		He doesn't know.
		But, you know, these are guys who during the day they're building spacecraft communications equipment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, he better not tell that story at JPL.
unidentified		Huh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He better not tell that story at JPL.
unidentified		No.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		But, you know, that's right.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Well, the guy who was telling you that God, but he wouldn't be able to talk in the lunchroom even with his fellow workers on something like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's quite right.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Professor Darling.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hi.
		My name is Meg.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And where are you?
unidentified		Louisville, Kentucky.
		Oh, okay.
		My question was, he got me thinking when he was talking about the possibility of the DNA being programmed with a message.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		My question was, since Aboriginal tribes were pretty much around long before the white man, wouldn't they have a higher instance of that, any possibilities?
		I mean, it's just a possibility.
		I know that.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the Aborigines have all kinds of interesting legends about sky gods.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		They're a really fascinating culture from that point of view.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They sure do.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		And that's one of the things we're feeding into our project because we want to look into the sky legends and really look what's out there and what's actually been said, what's been documented, and get to the bottom of these things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, there were pictures of helmeted figures in caves and craft and saucer-like craft in the sky and all kinds of things from very, very ancient times, right?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Exactly, you know, and it's looking at those scientific eyes and saying, first of all, can we explain them in any other way?
		If we can't, what the heck are they?
		You know, when I brought up the subject of DNA and coding, I was thinking way back.
		I'm going back pre-human.
		I was thinking that, you know, maybe in our mammalian ancestors.
		So I was thinking before humanity.
		So it wouldn't make any difference whether you're Aboriginal or older.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right, or a modern man.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It would be a different thing.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I was thinking of going back way before that.
		But, you know, I suppose it could have happened at any point in our evolution.
		But I was thinking millions of years ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Professor Darling.
		Hello.
		Hello.
		Going once.
		Going twice.
		Gone.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Professor Darling.
		Hi.
unidentified		Yes, I had a question.
unidentified		You had a doctor or somebody on about five years ago got an alien that was in the freezer that he had got that killed his dog.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And if the doctor tonight needed hard evidence, do you have audio tape and photos of that alien?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's not enough.
		Thank you for the call, but you see, it's not enough.
		We were talking about that earlier.
		How would you know an alien artifact or an alien or anything when you met up with it?
		And the answer is, well, gee, you might not.
		Or if you do, and it's just classified weird.
		Science has a way of just putting things up on the shelf that it doesn't understand.
		And it says, like, we'll look at this later or something, because it doesn't fit into what we believe.
		Right, Professor?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and I think, you know, you've got to be reasonable about it, too.
		I mean, in some ways, that's a sensible approach.
		If you want to get at the hard truth, you want to be a little bit sort of careful about what evidence you are prepared to tolerate.
		But what I'm saying is that most science is a little bit too intolerant.
		If a guy has got a video of an alien in his freezer, well, let's have a bit more than that.
		Why can't we actually have a sample to deal with as well?
		So I think a reasonable scientist would say, okay, now I've got the video.
		That's interesting.
		Now, if you've got this guy in your freezer, can I have a little bit of sample of his tissue to look at as well, please?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		Absolutely.
		First time, Color Line, you're on the air with Professor Darling.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Yes, I was wanting to talk to Art about the black triangle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we have a guest right now, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have a question for my guest?
unidentified		I'm sorry.
unidentified		No, I don't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, thanks for the call.
		And Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Professor Darling.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Oh, okay, great.
		I finally got through.
		A week ago, this night, I saw a craft way up in the sky.
		Well, actually, I went in my back porch just to look at the sky.
		It was clear and beautiful.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And I thought, I was looking at the, it looks like a triangle.
unidentified		One star to the south and two are to the side.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There have been many triangles seen, yes.
unidentified		Okay, and it was the southwestern park.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And I thought, oh, look, I'm seeing a whole bunch of stars.
unidentified		I thought, oh, maybe this is the night that they said, you know, you're going to see a whole bunch of stars come out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You had a sighting.
unidentified		Well, I certainly did.
		And I'm skeptical.
		And I looked and I went, I saw like a hue, like a red hue star or whatever, and it moved diagonally, went up, down, real fast.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Got it.
unidentified		And I went, oh, God, I started to get skewed.
		And I'm staring.
		I'm like, what is that?
		And I'm watching it between this area.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And it was like planets were lighting up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, okay, I've got it.
		Look, millions of people like the one we just talked to, millions and millions of them, Professor, see these things, and sure, we can take, I don't know, maybe we can take 90% of them and dismiss them somehow or another, maybe even a higher percentage.
		But it does seem reasonable that something is happening.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		The flying triangles, the black triangles, are really interesting.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		I mean, they've been on the increase since the 1990s.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That was my signing.
		Black triangle.
		I could have thrown a rock at the damn thing.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
		And I know people have seen these things.
		I know somebody personally who is very much involved in the SETI community who has regularly seen these things out in, I think his home is in New Jersey.
		And he's totally convinced of them.
		He's plotted the flight paths.
		He knows they're not regular airliners or anything.
		And they fit this classic description of the SETI.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've got to stay close to the phone for me, Pat.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Of a large triangle, you know, maybe 200 feet across, something like that.
		Pretty typical size.
		Lit up like a Christmas tree.
		Not hiding.
		That's the interesting thing about them.
		They don't seem to be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, actually, even beyond that, Professor NIDS did a study on these triangular craft and found that they tend to frequent the interstate highways.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		I know, and in populated areas, like they're going out of their way brazenly to expose themselves.
		And that's weird.
		I mean, if it's a covert military operation, why would they do that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They wouldn't.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		If it's extraterrestrials, why would they do that?
		So it presents a huge mystery because, you know, they're putting themselves out in plain view, apparently, and they're on the increase.
		And it's difficult to explain why something would plant itself in that way.
		But obviously people are seeing things, and they're not regular planes.
		They block out this part of the sky.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's the point I was trying to make earlier, Professor.
		I saw this thing.
		It was defying gravity.
		It wasn't flying at all.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Okay, that was your anti-gravity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guarantee you it was defying gravity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, the only question is, theirs or ours.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah.
		I mean, obviously artificial.
		That's the point you're making.
		And, you know, who knows?
		You're talking about a low-flying, large, well-lit aerial craft that is well seen by people in highly populated areas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Apparently they're carrying some kind of surveillance.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right.
		But look, either way, it's a monstrous story.
		If it's theirs, it's a monstrous story.
		Hello, it's aliens.
		If it's ours.
		Well, then we're defying gravity.
		and to defy gravity means that you have essentially discovered a magnificent new source of energy that the world at this moment needs much more desperately than we need some weapon that would mystify our enemies when you think I mean, obviously, yeah, it's hovering.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		There are ways to defy gravity without actually anti-gravity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Lighter than air?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
		I mean, you know, it obviously employs some propulsion system that is not in general use.
		Whether it's actually technically anti-gravity or not, I don't know, but it was defying gravity in a sense, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, one of the main reasons that a lot of the people who are looking into this want it all to break open is because they feel we need a new energy source, and we do very desperately, don't we?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So either it's big story A or big story B, which is a secret and ought not be a secret.
		Anyway, hold on, Professor, and we'll be right back.
		Professor David Darling, who is an astronomer, a British astronomer, is my guest.
		And we're talking about a whole universe of things.
		Join us if you dare.
unidentified		Thank you.
		Thank you.
		The white bear dreams of the astern tree with his dying leaves turning gold.
		But the white bear just sits in the cage growing gold.
		White bear must fly or she will die.
		To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Arfell from east of the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
		From west of the Rockies, call 800618-8255.
		International callers may recharge by calling your in-country sprint access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free, 800-893-0903.
		From coast to coast, and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is.
		How you doing this morning?
		David Darling is our guest, and he is an astronomer, a British astronomer, who really does think outside thoughts.
		So if you'd like to challenge that, stretch him a little bit.
		You've got the numbers.
unidentified		Let's rock.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The End Once again, Professor Darling, Professor Adam in Cincinnati says, hey, I've got a question for Professor Darling.
		I find the most important question about aliens are not who they are, if they're here or not, or why they could be here, but rather what we're going to do about their presence.
		In other words, he's somebody who totally is convinced that they're here.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, if they're here, and they're obviously more advanced than us because we don't travel to the stars yet.
		I'm not sure there's a whole lot we can do about them.
		They are going to be calling the shots in terms of what they're capable of doing, you know.
		I suppose the question is how they are here.
		Are they just simply monitoring us from space?
		Are they actually mingling among us?
		You know, are some of the people you see actually aliens?
		That would be a good way to study us, you know.
		But what we can do about them, you know, in terms of, you know, repelling them or communicating, that seems to be the bollies in their core, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very clearly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time caller line, you're on the air with Professor Darling.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hi.
		Yeah.
		Great show.
		Been listening to it from the beginning.
		Nice to talk to both of you, gentlemen.
		Thank you.
		I was intrigued when you were talking earlier about your own theories of consciousness and how the brain was more of a filter.
		And I had a traditional background in a disbachaler's level, both psychology and philosophy.
		And I was kind of curious, with both your knowledge of physics and your own personal theories on consciousness, where would you put the whole idea of how obviously there are cause and effect, there's a cause and effect level of reality, and then there's a freedom of choice issue.
		It's kind of a classical question, but I wanted to throw that out there to see how you would use it with your knowledge of both consciousness and of physics, and how you think that, how do you answer that question?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Whether there's free will or not, I guess.
		Yeah, I mean, in terms of physics, you know, as you say, there's always a cause and effect.
		The only place where there isn't is kind of in quantum physics, where sometimes things can arise just because they arise, just randomly without a prior cause at all.
		So possibly free will, if it exists, truly exists, maybe arises at the quantum level.
unidentified		But do you think that's a possibility?
		Because that's always been sort of my interest is sort of at the quantum level.
		And you look at some of the early aboriginal myths where they talk about consciousness itself maybe potentially being able to affect the universe or the shape of the universe.
		And I wonder if at some point there might not come a day where we can find a connection between that consciousness and something at a quantum level.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, I would think that's where it would be.
		You know, you'd have to be able to trace the origin of everything, including consciousness, right down to that level.
		And I would think that is where any kind of possibility for free will goes.
		Because if you treat the brain just as a machine, you're going to end up with, well, you know, we don't really have free will.
		It's just the brain ticking through its motions and coming up with whatever response is appropriate at the time.
		We don't have any say in it, you know.
unidentified		So I'm just saying.
unidentified		It's kind of that Newtonian thing.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so I'm not sure if free will exist truly in the sense that it is free or not, or whether it's kind of just something that arrives and we think it's free will, but it's not.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		It's already been decided ahead of time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, what a troublesome thought.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Yeah.
		Well, thank you very much.
		And one other question, just a quick one, was just that with my background, and I'm looking at graduate schools, but I'm very interested in a lot of the more interesting, some people would say, far out subjects having to do with anything from cosmology to extraterrestrial, as well as traditional questions like the one I just asked you.
		Where would you recommend someone who wanted to get involved and wanted to find a way that he could start making it more of a bigger part of his life do that?
		That's a big name or writer, maybe.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		Right.
		Yeah, I think maybe you can have a conventional job and have all these thoughts in your spare time.
		It doesn't have to be part of your career, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, because you could starve to death in today's environment.
		All right, let's go here.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Professor Darling.
unidentified		Hello.
		Good morning, sir.
		I just had a quick question.
		Since relativity seems to impose a speed of light speed limit on the universe, how does your guess suggest the aliens are getting to this planet?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, special relativity does impose.
		You can't actually, you know, start from zero and accelerate up to the speed of light, but general relativity, which is the other aspect of relativity, the theory of gravity, does actually provide short circuits in terms of things like wormholes.
		There are also ways of engineering space and time.
		There's something called the Alcubierre warp drive, which was devised by Mexican physicists, which allows you to create a space-time bubble, essentially deform space-time so you can travel through it.
		You're not actually traveling through it, you're traveling around it, in a sense.
		So there are ways to short circuit without violating the speed limit, as it were.
		That's all mainstream stuff.
		It's not too much way out there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Professor Darling.
		Hi.
unidentified		Yes, hi.
		Hi, Professor.
		Hayard.
		Look, years ago, I read a study about using drop tubes and jets to create zero gravity right here on Earth.
		And it was momentarily able to obtain that particular state, but they were able to combine elements that you cannot do on this Earth unless you were in outer space.
		But they did it here momentarily.
		I think it was beryllium, beryllium oxide or something.
		And Art said earlier that he had something that was like possibly an artifact or whatever from outside of this Earth.
		Now, could Art have a piece of junk or could he have something that was its reality, it came from outer space?
		Or was it created right here?
		And could they prolong zero gravity here on Earth to create that anti-gravity?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, that's a whole bunch of questions.
		I don't know.
		With regard to what I have, I don't know the answer to that.
		I don't think anybody does.
		It was studied like crazy for years, and I'm not going to go into all that right now.
		But what about the creation of things in zero gravity, Professor, that cannot be created naturally where there is gravity?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		What we call zero gravity, for example, you know, if you're in a spacecraft in Earth orbit, really isn't zero gravity because you're still, you know, the Earth screen, you're still in Earth gravity, but you're always falling.
		Totally zero gravity doesn't really exist in the sense that you're always being pulled by something.
		So I don't know whether zero gravity experiments have to be done.
		I mean, anti-gravity experiments don't depend on being in space or on the Earth.
		It seems to me that's an irrelevance.
		It's really a question of what we mean by anti-gravity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, physicists sometimes mean something different than Well, let me try it for the general public, something that would allow one to neutralize its effects.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		That kind of corresponds with the physicist.
		Yeah, to actually neutralize gravity like you can neutralize positive and negative charges.
		Yes.
		That's really what anti-gravity is.
		That's pretty profound stuff because gravity, you know, according to Einstein, is actually a bending of space and time.
		So you've got to actually re-engineer space and time, which is tough.
		That's really advanced physics.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Indeed.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		How far along clandestine projects are with that, I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Professor Darling.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hey, thanks, Art.
		Mike in Utah, listening on the XM Radio.
		On global warming, it seems like there's a couple of different sides to this debate, whether it's we humans that are causing it all or whether we're just in a cycle, maybe a solar cycle that's naturally occurring that warms up the planet.
		And as I heard on Mr. Bell's program last night, attributable to the magnetic shift towards the geographical pole, which might even be caused by nuclear testing in Nevada.
		So this could be a natural event.
		I was wondering, is anybody measuring the global warming effects on the other planets in the solar system that exhibit solar change, such as Mars?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I think so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Professor, they have looked at Mars, haven't they, and other planets where global warming has become runaway?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, Venus has got a runaway greenhouse effect, but it's had that for a long, long time, you know, billions of years, really.
		It's an interesting question, actually.
		Mars would be a good test of that.
		Venus is a lost cause.
		I mean, a total runaway greenhouse effect on Venus.
		It's all carbon dioxide atmosphere, basically.
		It's just massive.
		But Mars would be a more sensitive test of that.
		And actually, I don't know if anybody has done a comparison between Mars and Earth to see how much of the effect is solar and how much is human.
		I'm totally convinced that most of it, simply because of the speed at which it's happening, is human.
		I've no real doubt.
		There may be some supplementary effect due to cosmic influences, but I personally have no doubt, having read the literature, that it's human-cause.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It seems to be mounting.
		The evidence seems to be awfully high.
		First, Tom Collarline, you're on the air with Professor David Darling.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hello, thank you.
		It's an honor to speak with you, Art, and it's thrilled, Professor Darling.
		First, I must say that I saw the black triangle two nights in a row about a year and a half ago sitting out in my backyard as I used to be wacky about looking for tumbling satellites.
		But that's beside the point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have a question?
unidentified		Yes.
		Has he, so to speak, looked into Mel's hole?
		And does he have a theory on that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my.
		I'm just going to pass that one on by because I don't think so.
		Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Professor Darling.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yes, well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, do you have a question for my guest?
unidentified		Well, yes, sir.
unidentified		I'd like to share something that happened to me when I was a young man.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is this a question for my guest?
unidentified		Yes, sir.
		It's regarding the extraterrestrial presence here on Earth.
		I'd share anything about underground facilities in the New Mexico area.
		Because when I was about 17 years of age, I was hitchhiking towards California on Highway 10 West.
		And sitting on my suitcase, it must have been around 10 o'clock at night.
		The sky was extremely clear.
		And about some time later, a vehicle pulled up.
		It was a Ford Galaxy 500.
		You don't see too many of those anymore.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, real quick here, because we're short on time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So what would the question be?
unidentified		Well, the question is if he has heard anything about any of those types of facilities there, because this gentleman that was driving the vehicle and I were eventually taken there by no means.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		To a facility.
		All right.
		The question is about underground bases and facilities that may be around the world for all we know.
		There's a lot of speculation, and probably some of it is true.
		The government probably takes underground those things it doesn't want seen.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, it's the obvious place to go, especially with the amount of surveillance.
		I mean, every square foot of the surface of the Earth is now monitored regularly by satellites, and that's available to the public, you know.
		So any facility they wanted to keep totally dark would have to be literally in the dark and around.
		But I have no, I can't add any information.
		They don't tell me these things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Professor Darling.
unidentified		Hello?
		Yes, I have a question.
		I have two of them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turn your radio off and proceed.
		Yes, that's very important.
		Yes, all the way off.
unidentified		I have two questions.
		First question is, I have a research project coming up.
		Where could I find the most UFO sightings in the world?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Most information on UFOs.
unidentified		Well, no, like, where can I find the most sightings?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At the moment, South America.
unidentified		South America?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And there's another question.
unidentified		Did the world change after Roswell, like the technology and all that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, that's a pretty good one.
		There are a number of people, many of them I've interviewed.
		Colonel Corso comes to mind, Professor.
		Colonel Corso was a very credible person who was a colonel who claimed that he was given technology essentially from the Roswell crash and that he integrated this technology into the private sector through government programs.
		And that's how many of today's modern inventions came to be modern inventions.
		He siphoned this technology off.
		I personally believed the man, or that he believed what he was saying, I guess I should put it that way, that he was giving this technology to private industry.
		And indeed, about that time, technology started leaping forward.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there's no doubt about that.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		That was kind of post-war period, because a lot of things were developed for military purposes.
unidentified		Sure.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Then leaked out into public sector, radar and stuff like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And maybe we just got very bright very quickly, but it does seem like, man, there's a gray area there.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		After the war, when a lot of UFO flying source or sightings and the link with our own weapons testing and whatnot.
		So you can't discount these things.
		I have no extra information to give you on that.
		Don't personally tell you information like that.
		That's okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's try this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Professor Darling.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hi, Art.
		Great to talk to you.
		You have a question about Venus and the viability of terraforming.
		Since it's mostly carbon dioxide, could you drop a bunch of algae on it and have that start creating oxygen?
		Huh.
		And also the...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Professor?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		You know, Venus is an incredibly hostile environment.
		You know, that surface temperature is way up there.
		You know, you drop algae on there, you'd have fried algae before they would get a chance to.
		But you may genetically engineer something that could survive, say, in the atmosphere and convert it.
		Terraforming is going to be a reality on Mars and Venus and many other planets eventually.
		Whether that's a good thing or not, considering the mess we're making of our own planet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we may need it.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we should probably, yeah.
		I don't know whether we should test it out on Mars first or make sure we can live on our own planet before we start going elsewhere.
		But yeah, terraforming Venus and Mars and definitely using some form of low plant life would be definitely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you would think, wouldn't you, Professor, that a civilization capable of terraforming the planet could somehow manage to keep its own house in order?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know.
		Our technology seems to be running way, way ahead of our ability to do benign things with it all the time.
		I wonder about that.
		I try to be optimistic, but I've not seen a turning point yet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nor have I. But again, by the time you could terraform a planet, why you could probably take care of your own planet.
		Let's see if we can squeeze one in.
		First time, caller line, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Yeah, I have a quick question since y'all talked about some brain topics.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Sleep paralysis.
unidentified		Why do I see sometimes under sleep paralysis shadowy figures, strange noises, and I even feel a sensation of floating sometimes?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, because it's an altered state.
		Professor, you were earlier talking about the near-death experiences.
		Well, they do kind of parallel.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's a similar sort of out-of-body experience, and it falls into exactly the same category of the body being left behind as a shell and possibly linking with a higher consciousness.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		It sounds like a similar type of phenomenon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Listen, very quickly, because we're about out of time here, is your latest book, The Universal Book of Astronomy, from Andromeda Galaxy to Zone of Avoidance?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		That is one of my recent ones, The Universal Book of Mathematics, which just came out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh!
david darling ▲ ● ▼		But the astronomy came out last year.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		The next book will be on teleportation, and that's coming out in May.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Teleportation.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		I can't wait for that to come out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you should have mentioned that a little earlier.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm extremely interested in teleportation.
david darling ▲ ● ▼		I want to say that for a show that's near the publication date, if I may, but some fascinating stuff, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Secrets to be told, eh?
david darling ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, my friend.
		Listen, I want to thank you so much for sharing with myself and the audience tonight.
		It's been wonderful, and I should apologize ahead of time for this, but I got to say good night, darling.
		Yeah, I got to go.
		Thank you, Professor.
		Good night.
		Here's Crystal.
		Just the right words.
		See you next weekend from the High Desert Night All.
unidentified		Good night in the desert, shooting stars across the sky.
		This magical journey will take us on a ride filled with the longing, searching for the truth.
		Will we make it to tomorrow?
		Will the sun shine on you?

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