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Sept. 19, 2004 - Art Bell
02:52:26
Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Dr. Jeffrey Long - NDE Accounts
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So, thank you very much. We'll be back in a few minutes.
So, thank you very much. We'll be back in a few minutes.
Music From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid
you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon, whatever the case may be in all 25 time zones and possibly
more.
We get lots of argument about that.
Covered every single one of them by this program, Coast to Coast AM, I'm Art Bell, honored and privileged to be with you throughout this weekend.
I got a kind of a strange call from Whitley, Whitley Streber, a very good friend of mine, and he said, hey Art, have you been watching the earthquakes?
Well, yes, but not closely enough apparently to know that as of tonight, there have been 350 of them on the California-Nevada line.
And Whitley said, you know, maybe something's getting ready to let go, and maybe it is.
And he said, you're going to need to get out of there.
And so that's how I'm starting the program tonight with that sage bit of wisdom.
Anyway, we'll watch carefully.
Maybe something big is about to happen.
One other item, the webcam shot tonight.
It's kind of interesting.
That was taken a few days ago, and it was taken about three quarters of the way up my commercial radio tower.
Toward one portion of Pahrump, and you'll see the big mountain in the background.
That's Mount Charleston, which is about 11,900 feet high.
It's kind of a magical night.
I was chatting on AM radio with a guy at 42,000 feet in a business jet, streaking across Arizona, headed toward the Southern California area, and that was a lot of fun.
So I was doing that just a minute ago before I got on here.
Let's see what's going on in the world, depressing as that normally is.
The Iraqi Prime Minister insisted Sunday that the raging insurgency, which has now claimed over 300 lives in the last week alone, and resulted in a wave of kidnappings, is not going to delay January elections, promising the vote will be a major blow struck against the violent opposition Meanwhile, a grisly videotape posted on a website showed the beheading of three more hostages believed to be Iraqi Kurds accused of militants of cooperating with us, the U.S.
The tropics continue to rage.
In fact, Tropical Storm Jean has killed now at least 50 people in Haiti.
After battering the neighboring Dominican Republic with its lashing winds and deadly storm surge, before it finally pushed off into the open sea on Sunday, officials said floods tore through the northwestern capital town and surrounding areas Saturday night, covering crops but not fully engulfing homes.
Senators from both parties urged the Bush administration on Sunday to make a realistic assessment of the situation in Iraq and then adjust its policies aimed at pacifying the country.
But Bush readied a very firm defense of his policy in Iraq and a sharp new attack on rival Kerry's stance for a big speech, I guess, on Monday.
Hundreds of relief workers fanned out across Florida on Sunday trying to help still-numb families.
Motorists waited in long, mile-long lines to buy gas and get free food, ice, and water.
People of all ages sifted through the rubble of demolished and damaged homes and businesses trying to salvage clothes, photos, anything of what their life was before Ivan the Terrible.
Microsoft Corporation is going to share its source code.
Now, there's a headline you would never have expected to read.
Sharing its source code for their incredible operating systems?
Why, yes, it would seem.
Beginning Monday, Microsoft will offer more than 60 governments and international organizations.
Oh, darn, that's not us.
The option of viewing the proprietary source code for the latest version of its ubiquitous office software, including the Outlook email program.
We had an incredible response to the harp sounds that I played last night.
I'll read you just a few of them, but they came in by the hundreds.
In a moment, we'll review some of them and, once again, play that sound for you.
It's a near unanimous request so if you want to record it standby
Are you This is really amazing what we're about to do and the
reaction to it is absolutely astounding really And I want to give those of you who do not want to hear the harp sound a chance to turn off the radio.
That way you will not have to hear it.
Now, the response I got from playing that was astounding.
I mean, everything from art, it caused my back to start hurting to Um, I wanted to kill someone, some lady said, to I have a headache, to it made me feel warm and fuzzy, to here's Joe Hart, you gotta play that Hart transmission again or post it on your website.
That is the weirdest, most far-out stuff I've ever heard anywhere.
Please post it on the site so people can download it.
My friends have to hear that.
It's that bizarre.
Or, oh God, When you played the clip of Harp, I got the worst, strangest, most uncomfortable feeling of my life.
I had a strange sensation run up and down my spine, found it terrifying.
As a race, we've got to stop use of this.
I think it is very evil.
And on and on and on and on.
Evil?
Well, maybe.
What is Harp?
It's an ionospheric heater, ostensibly studying the effects of high Amounts of radio frequency concentrated in a very small spot on the ionosphere, perhaps burning a hole right through it.
And there have been many things attributed to HAARP.
The ability to control mines, perhaps one of the wilder.
Weather control, perhaps not so wild.
And everything in between.
But the government is clearly doing something up in Alaska.
And what you're about to hear are the sounds, the actual transmissions of harp recorded by a friend of mine.
And it is what it is.
And what these sounds mean and what they're doing to the ionosphere and all of us, I have no idea.
But here's what the transmissions act, this is a real recording of harp.
Here we go.
Now just what do you suppose that is doing to the ionosphere?
I don't have the foggiest, and if that's a mystery, listen very carefully.
Here's the other transmission we've got recorded.
Is that strange?
Is that strange or what?
You hear it beginning to come down the other way in frequency.
It's like it hiccups and then it starts in the other direction.
That's really weird stuff.
Eerie stuff.
And that's a real transmission of harp.
My thanks to Steve Wingate for recording and sending it to me.
That was recorded in the last week or so.
Maybe the people up in Alaska would enjoy hearing What they're doing.
that's our scattering and dogs doing wild things and uh... you name it
So, there you have it.
We talk a lot about it, but this is, I think, your first opportunity ever to actually hear the real McCoy.
All right, now, this is kind of interesting.
It's Reuters News reporting that most Americans Would, get this, would not cooperate as officials expect they would during a major terror incident, something like smallpox or perhaps a dirty bomb attack.
An in-depth survey found that the people do not trust the federal government to take care of them during an attack and would take matters into their own hands, endangering themselves and their families.
Only two-fifths of those surveyed.
Two-fifths would follow the instructions to go to a public vaccination site in a smallpox outbreak, and only three-fifths would stay in a building other than their home after a dirty bomb explosion.
But a little more planning and working with communities may help improve all of this.
If the survey's predictions are true, Said Sherry Glead, Chairman of the Department of Health Policy at Columbia University in New York.
Our plans are going to fail.
The study looked at how people would react to two hypothetical scenarios, a smallpox outbreak and a dirty bomb explosion.
Smallpox, of course, a highly infectious virus that killed about 30% of or does kill 30% of those who come down with it.
It was wiped out back in 1979 with global vaccinations.
And people born after 72 are not likely to have been even vaccinated against it.
A dirty bomb would use a conventional explosion to spread radioactive material.
Current plans call for vaccinations as needed during any sort of smallpox attack and for keeping people inside buildings until the danger from any dirty bomb had passed.
The researchers conducted in-depth discussions with government and private sector planners With community residents from around the country did a national telephone survey of 2,545 randomly selected adults.
They found members of the public would not necessarily obey instructions from emergency officials.
People did not respond irrationally, rather they made rational, logical choices.
For instance, Many of those surveyed feared they could go to a smallpox vaccination site, get exposed to people who already had smallpox, and then be told they could not safely get the vaccine because they were pregnant, had eczema, AIDS, or some other immune-compromising condition, and people asked
to think about a dirty bomb explosion said they'd try hard to get their
children or other family members get to him even if they were told to stay put by authorities
only 59 percent would stay in the building said Ross Lasker who led that
study assuring the safety of people who depend on them is more
important than their own safety he said so
basically this story is saying that all of you out there would absolutely not obey
emergency officials Period.
Just would not obey the great majority.
Here's another one.
Last night during your show you played recordings of harp art.
I had a physical response to one of the two you played while the higher pitch recording was playing.
I felt a throbbing on the right side of my head just from one side of the crown chakra.
I also began to sweat profusely, as if the body was trying to burn off something the way it would when you have a fever.
As soon as you stopped playing the higher-pitched sound, the throbbing in my head stopped, and so did the sweating.
So, there you have it.
Pretty strange stuff all the way around.
Certainly strange reactions, and I wonder if, well, I kind of wonder if it's psychological or maybe not psychological.
In other words, are people because, you know, there's a kind of mysticism almost attached now to HAARP, in many minds out there, as many interviews as we have done about it.
And some people, you know, feel that it's evil in some way, and who knows, it might be.
That they're having a reaction to it.
After all, 30 or 40 percent of those given sugar pills get quite well, despite whatever illness it would be.
So, the mind has great powers.
Or, perhaps there is something inherently... Well, you know, evil is a very strong word.
Let's take some phone calls.
Don't forget, at the top of this hour, We're going to be having, I think, a very unusual program.
Dr. Jeffrey Long is here, who brought us Sarah.
Sarah, if I could drag it out again for you and play it, I would.
Sarah was one of the most amazing near-death stories I've ever heard in my whole life.
And I'll tell you what, if you're even a pretty firm non-believer or skeptic regarding the afterlife, And all the rest of it could not listen to that story by Sarah and feel the same way or have the same confidence of the lack of something well beyond ourselves after hearing that interview, I assure you.
And tonight's interview is going to be of a young lady named Vicky Noratuck, I believe it is, and she has been blind since birth and she had an absolutely an amazing NDE, and Dr. Long will bring her here tonight.
He is a researcher into exactly that, near-death experiences.
If we are to ever know the nature of the other side, or even if there really is one, then we really need to listen to stories like the ones, like the one you're going to hear tonight.
A wild card line, you are on the air, welcome.
How you doing, Art?
Look here, you were talking about the hurricanes last night down in the Gulf.
I'm going to tell you something.
If I ever bought a home down in the Gulf, I would build a safe house or a little safe room.
And I'm sure you've heard of those, right?
Well, of course.
Only costs about three grand.
Is that right?
And you can actually survive like an F4 tornado, or like an F3 tornado, or like a Hurricane Category 3 tornado, or hurricane.
Well, I don't know about the Gulf, but if I lived in Tornado Alley, I definitely would have one of those.
Tornadoes scare me as nothing else.
I'd rather have a tornado than a hurricane.
No, no, no, you really wouldn't.
Trust me on this.
You would not.
The winds from tornadoes can get upwards of 300 miles an hour, and so essentially you're going from 20 or 30 or 40 and a thunderstorm to 300, and that just absolutely destroys everything, sir.
Well, the reason I said that, hurricane force winds last for so long.
Right.
Like we were down here in Georgia, we were having like 60 mile an hour sustained winds.
I understand.
For like three hours.
But a tornado will just go ahead and whip right on through.
Well, yeah, right, okay, but it rip right on through is right.
If you're hit by a tornado, believe me, a hurricane would seem just spiffy.
A tornado will absolutely, it doesn't care what the quality of the building is, mobile home, stick built, doesn't matter, it will take it to zero.
An F5 tornado will destroy everything.
In its path.
Everything.
So, I don't know.
You might want to rethink that position.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello.
Hey, Art.
Hey, yes.
Dan, truck driver.
First-time caller, long-time listener.
I'm at Spudak, New York.
Hey, buddy.
Welcome.
Thank you.
Last night, pertaining to the hurricanes, kind of in a reference to the last caller, Scriptures, Matthew 16, 3.
Don't read it to me.
Just tell me about it.
Yeah, it totally just references how bad weather is a sign of the end time.
Oh, well, there may be more signs than that.
Did you hear about all the earthquakes between Nevada and California?
No, not recently, I haven't.
Well, try the last 48 hours and about 350 of them.
I'd say something big might be about to happen, or not.
I would agree.
I would agree.
If you don't mind, one more?
Yes, sir.
In the book of Genesis, this is a UFO, alien, after death, whatever kind of reference you want to make of it, Lucifer was picked out of heaven and cast to the earth.
And basically from that time on, Lucifer was never allowed to leave, or the demons were never allowed to leave this earth after the war with Michael.
And it's also said in Revelation that Lucifer, now Satan, could appear as even an angel of light.
He could appear, basically, as anything.
And the angels were super geniuses.
Well, you know what?
I don't think we're going to be all that hard to fool.
He may appear as an angel, that would do it.
Or anything else that appears good, we wouldn't be all that hard to fool, would we?
We have very fixed ideas, thanks to Hollywood.
Of what good and evil are, so I don't think we'd be real difficult to fool.
Wes for the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hi.
How's it going, Art?
It's going.
Long time, no talk.
Been listening for years, called in a few times, but just got a quick ghost story for you.
Very quick.
My friend constantly sees ghosts, and he did growing up, but one instance in particular was a funny one.
He kept seeing the same woman in his bedroom over and over, and so one night he got the courage to ask her what she was doing there, ask her who she was.
He woke up, and there she was, kind of at the end of the room there, and he was laying in bed, and so he said, Who are you?
She looked at him, circled the room three times, and then came right up in his face, inches from his face, scared him to death almost.
He just about died in his bed from this old woman who was haunting his room.
Just right up to his face?
Right up to his face.
And why?
Did he just disappear then, or what?
Yeah, she just then disappeared after she came right up to his face.
Yeah, well, I don't know.
All right, thank you very much.
You take care.
See, there's a case where you would say evil, wicked, evil, right?
But I don't think, I really don't think we'd be all that hard to fool, do you?
you, a couple of wings were sold.
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From coast to coast, and worldwide on the Internet, this is Coast to Coast AM, with Art Bell.
It is, and by the way, I just watched the latest installment of Dead Like Me with Ellen Muth, who I got to interview last week.
This is where I found this music, you know, on Dead Like Me, which airs on Showtime.
You guys gotta see it.
I mean, it's right down your alley.
What a wonderful show.
Ellen is cute as a bug.
And it's kind of strange, because during the interview last week, you may recall, I asked her if in one of the episodes coming up, she might lose her cosmic virginity.
And lo and behold, just about an hour ago, It happened.
We'll be right back.
Music kind of sets the mood.
mode.
you You know, it really does.
Music, and that's one thing I very much agreed with last night, It almost wasn't the same episode, minus the music, she said.
And there's just something about this music that really trips my trigger.
This kind of... I don't know what it is.
It just sets the mood for me.
Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
Hi.
Hi, Art.
This is Tim from L.A.
listening to you on KFI.
Yes, sir.
The big one.
640.
The big one.
Yes.
I would love for you to upload the harp sound to your website, because yesterday, my girlfriend and I were listening to the sound, and she got really frisky, if you know what I mean.
Oh, really?
Yeah, I mean, you know how some people pretend they're getting back aches and neck aches and whatnot?
Yes.
Well, the opposite just happened, and she was a wild woman.
Was she?
Uh-huh.
Just a great big old inside smile, huh?
Oh yeah, and I was really, really happy that night.
So can you please upload a card?
Please?
I don't know.
Email me.
We'll make a deal.
Okay.
I'll see you later.
Oh, man.
Well, that was the first reaction of that type that I've heard of so far.
All this stuff I got.
That's the best yet.
Well, let's see here.
All right, sir.
I'm not absolutely certain which one it was, but call your wife.
Get her in.
Is she in there?
She's there?
All right.
Y'all have a good night there now.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello.
Yes, Art?
Yes.
Yeah, this is Mark in Dayton, Ohio.
Hello, Mark.
Yeah, Art, I could talk to you probably for an hour or two about climate change and pollution and so on and so forth.
I studied oceanography and environmental chemistry at Texas A&M, but we don't need to get into that.
I can call you later about that.
Anyway, I'm thinking you might have heard this from George Noring.
Uh, earlier, uh, you probably talked to him from time to time, don't you?
Uh, from time to time?
Yeah.
Uh, there was a truck driver that called in, excuse me, there was a truck driver that called in to his show, uh, oh gosh, back in, um, June or something.
Yeah.
Why?
Yeah.
And, uh, anyway, he put a message on his answering machine about, uh, a half an hour before he got home.
He was on the freeway at the time.
Yeah.
Yes.
And to, uh, to give his wife a message of some kind.
So he gets home, and about 10 minutes after he gets home, he hears his own voice.
Delivering the message?
Yeah, coming in on the answering machine.
The exact same thing he said about 50 minutes earlier.
That's pretty cool.
I don't know what that would be.
Let me take a stab at it, alright?
Trying to explain it the old-fashioned way.
There are a number of services that will, if they cannot get through, uh, in other words, you leave a message and if it cannot, if it cannot be delivered... Oh no, wait a minute.
It was his answering machine.
He was actually talking to his hand.
No, that doesn't work.
Well, that's certifiably weird.
Uh, West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello.
Yes.
Yes.
Uh, this is Joe.
And this is Art.
Um, uh, uh, are we on the air?
Well, I hope so.
If not, we're in trouble.
At least I am.
Okay.
AR, I want to talk to you about your movie.
My movie?
Well, you mean The Day After Tomorrow.
The Day After Tomorrow.
Right, which came from the coming global superstorm.
So our book was the genesis for it.
Yes.
What about it?
Okay, I think it's... What I wanted to ask you, did you have a vision before you wrote the The movie, or the story itself.
God, that is such a... Alright, I'm gonna try and answer that for you.
You know... Dammit.
I'm not, I am not, I will hold out any sort of visionary.
I really don't think I am.
However, yes.
I would call it more of a knowing.
There was no deep voice that said, Hey Art!
Wait till you see what's going to happen.
You ought to write a book.
None of that.
But what there was, was a knowing.
Just a knowing.
And I can't tell you how I knew.
Maybe I had read enough stories by then.
Maybe I was being influenced by what I was reading and the shows I have been doing.
I really, I don't know.
But there was a knowing, a sort of a knowing, that caused that book to emerge.
And of course, you should know that because I've been talking to you about it on the air for how many years now?
So, no psychic flashes or visions or anything of that sort, just kind of a knowing.
First time caller on the line, you're on the air, hello.
Hi Art, this is Mike.
Hey Mike.
Auburn, Washington, KVI AM 570.
Yes sir.
And you read a fast blast of mine last Halloween during your Ghost to Ghost episode.
Oh, really?
It seemed to catch your attention, you were saying that on the FastPlass, you were talking about hell, and you were talking about, you know, do people go to hell forever?
Yes.
And I was writing, what is forever?
Because time doesn't exist on the other side, so what is forever?
Immeasurable time.
I'm beginning to believe there is indeed perhaps a dimension or another place of being other than ours where time is simply not measured nor is it cared about.
So it's a pretty good question, isn't it?
Yeah, it's a good point.
When you go to the other side, I mean, what does it matter?
What is the moment?
What is a thousand years?
What is a million years?
And what is forever?
Is it all the same thing?
Maybe.
You might just experience hell for a few flashes or a few minutes or whatever, which may be forever.
Can you, in your mind, can you contemplate forever?
Can you contemplate infinity?
You know, if I think of it in early terms, I'm not able to do it.
To do it, but if I think of it in terms of now, and that now never ends, then I can contemplate it somehow.
It's like a now that never ends.
I can, in sort of a surface way, contemplate it.
In a very surface way, I can think of, oh, forever.
No time.
But if I really stop, like I would expect you would do here, and think of infinity, and try and conceptualize in your mind Infinity.
You probably cannot do it.
Or you might think you can, but you can't really.
Infinity is a concept that we just, I don't know, we just can't grasp.
Not really.
Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
Hello.
Hey, our first time caller, Kevin out here in Ohio on the Ohio Turnpike.
Hey there, Kevin.
Hey, think about your harp sounds for a second.
Yes.
Think about what it is you are hearing.
Okay, I don't, you know, I'm an RF guy, I'm a radio guy.
Think about what you're hearing.
You're hearing frequencies that are going up and down and stuff like that.
Right.
Why would you bother to modulate that much carrier to ionize the ionosphere?
Let me tell you what I do know and maybe you can take it from there.
Okay.
But what the people have told me about HAARP is that they're not, those tones that you're hearing are It's kind of irrelevant. When they take tones and beat one
tone against the other, then they get a differential tone, which may be something
they otherwise could not achieve with all of this power. In other words, it's a sum and a
difference.
It sounds to me like what they're trying to do is jam modems that are being used to
guide incoming missiles. Yeah. I don't know about that.
There were two very different sounds, and what they're actually doing, I don't have the slightest.
In other words, are they trying to control weather?
Are they trying to control people?
Are they trying to look for underground tunnels and bunkers?
That's one of the big things they say they're doing.
What are they doing?
I think they're trying to destroy incoming electronics by putting enough garbage in the air that would cover enough bandwidth.
Also, what's the bandwidth of the signal?
Um, it's about like, uh, that was, what you heard received was received on AM.
So, I would assume, uh, pretty much an AM bandwidth, probably nine, uh, kilohertz or so.
They're trying to splatter modems.
They can't, you know, come on, what are you going to do with drones like that?
Why, look, why, why screw with somebody's modem?
No, that many billions of dollars?
Those towers rising off the Alaskan floor, 70 feet, pumping up to a billion watts ultimately into the ionosphere.
No, they're not trying to screw with somebody's modem.
Uh-uh.
It's bigger than that.
Believe me, it's bigger than that.
Whatever it is, we can discuss, and we have discussed, what we think it might be, and it's going to be one of those in all probability, and that's a lot bigger than screwing with somebody's modem.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hi.
Good morning, Art.
Good morning.
This is Steve in Texas.
Hello, Steve.
I'm listening to you at the moment on KTRH.
Yes, sir.
I am almost 50, and a couple weeks ago, finally had my very first ghost experience.
Oh.
What happened?
Well, I live in a small duplex, and I've had four other people tell me that they've seen people wandering around the place.
Yes.
And I'm kind of open-minded, so I accept it, but since I've never seen anything, you know, I'm kind of... I want to see it before I believe it.
Well, I'm in your camp.
Well, I was laying there, and I'm the type... First of all, I'm I had a quad bypass last year, so I'm a heart patient.
Quad.
And, yeah, it was fun.
I'm the type who, when I wake up, I wake up instantly.
Right.
Wide awake.
Right, I'm not.
In fact, it's almost as hard to understand you as it is for me to contemplate infinity.
I drag myself out of bed.
I have two cups of coffee, and then I begin to feel my blood coming up to steam.
No, I can jump out of bed and be ready for work in five minutes.
I was laying there one night and I thought I heard something and I opened my eyes and as I'm looking up I see someone standing over me bent over.
And your first instinct is to shove them out of the way.
You know, you think it's a burglar or something like that.
It's like an instant cup of coffee.
Uh-huh.
It wakes you up right away.
Was this a solid apparition?
I mean, it looked very solid to me.
It was a man.
The room was fairly dark, so I couldn't make out everything, but there was a man bent over my bed, staring me right in the face.
Oh, boy.
All right.
My first instinct is shove him as far away as possible.
Of course.
I sprung up, went to shove him and went right through him.
And you went right through him?
Yeah, he was gone right after that.
And then I let out a couple expletives.
I bet you did.
And so you think that was a ghost?
Well, I'm hoping so.
I mean, it could have been anything, any kind of apparition.
Maybe a ghost, sure.
Maybe...
Maybe anything, huh?
But anyway, welcome to the club.
I mean, you've seen something that wasn't real.
I've had four different people here in my house who have all seen things, and I also have a 21-month-old granddaughter who lives with me.
Well, we know that she loves standing to where they always seem to appear and just talks away.
Yeah, gotcha.
Well, young children, you know, they haven't been taught they can't do that yet, so they quite readily do it.
Yeah.
What are we dealing with?
Is it people from the other side?
Is it people who are stuck on this side?
Is it something from the center of our own brains?
I don't know.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hi.
Hi, Eric.
This is Jeanette.
I'm calling from San Diego.
Yes, Jeanette.
I was hoping I could get on last night with your guest.
I was talking about the chemtrails?
Yes.
I presume you have seen the movie Patton?
I have.
Okay.
I believe that movie was made in either 68 or 69?
Yes.
And there's a chemtrail in the sky.
Now, how do you differentiate it from a contrail?
Well, a contrail disappears almost immediately behind the aircraft that makes it.
But a chemtrail It stays in the sky for a long time and then starts to spread and get diffused.
But you were watching a movie that may well have been edited and who knows what went on time-wise with the movie.
Nevertheless, you saw it.
Yeah, it's clearly in the sky in a scene between George C. Scott and Carl Malden.
They're standing and talking.
Right.
It's in the second half of the film and it's plain and day in the sky.
I wonder, just out of a, it's kind of off the side of what you're saying a little bit, but when they make a period piece, when they make a movie that, for example, is supposed to occur in the 1800s or something, I wonder how much of a problem contrails and chemtrails and any other unnatural things in the sky would be for them.
I would think quite substantial, wouldn't you?
First time caller line, you're on the air.
Hi.
Hello.
How you doing?
Okay, sir, where are you?
I'm in Cincinnati.
Cincinnati?
Yeah, my name's Mike.
Okay, Mike, good to have you.
I've got a little story for you.
Alright.
I just got out of the hospital and I had pneumonia and I was on my way home and I was waiting on the bus at the bus stop and I fell asleep while I was sitting there and I could see myself.
I don't know if it was a dream or if it was out of the body experience.
But I got on the bus and as I'm sitting on the bus I looked out the window and I'm sitting on the bench and it really freaked me out and about I don't know how long it was but maybe a couple minutes I woke up And I'm sitting back on the bench.
That's so weird.
That's kind of like, I don't know, the phone call we got a little while ago about the answering machine.
My God, what are the answers to that?
Anybody else out there have these time slips?
What else to call them?
They seem to be time slips.
A couple of them already tonight.
So there's a good thing to go after.
How many of you have had those time slips, or whatever they are?
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello?
Hello.
Turn your radio off for us, please.
Okay.
And what is your first name?
Uh, Josie.
Okay.
Don't have a whole lot of time, so let her rip.
Okay.
Go ahead.
Uh, oh, is this on?
Yes.
Oh, okay.
I didn't know.
I didn't think it was you.
All right.
Um, I'm calling about the lady that called, uh, a couple of weeks ago.
She called about the, um, screams from hell.
Oh, yes.
And she was talking about she heard a man in the background.
That's right.
Immediately right after that, something just clicked in my head.
I just thought of something.
In the Second World War, the Nazis used to send people to Siberia for punishment because it was so cold out there.
That's correct.
Okay, I thought to myself, it could be the ghost With the Nazis that guy could have been the Nazi guy screaming at these people I think immediately it just occurred to me I think it's a Nazi screaming at all these people and they're all yelling because that's where they used to send the people to Siberia.
Well I don't know about that part of it but I'll tell you what after she said she heard the man I played it and I heard it myself and I had never heard that until she pointed that out but you could hear the man's Well, what do you get out of that tape when you hear it?
had to be it was weird you had to be listening for it right it was like almost hitler
screaming at the people you know how he can yell at the people yes it's almost
like a a nazi screaming at these people to me you know to me that maybe to shut up and stop
screaming because you know you hear and you're being punished well
what do you get out of that tape when you hear it do you get a sense of evil
yeah oh uh... yeah yeah and i'm i'm right away something just hit me just
something just entered my head immediately after the lady said you know the guy i
heard that guy i i heard him
and i'm thinking immediately just something just i don't know what it was
i'm thinking of that the nazis uh... screaming at these people
Well, I get the exact same sense of the evil content of that.
Maybe again.
It's kind of like the harp things.
It's... Is it psychological or is it... Well, is there really something evil there?
from the high desert in the middle of the night where we do business this is Coast to Coast AM.
When you subscribe to the after...
when you subscribe to the after.
Oh la la. Oh la la. Oh la la.
I'm going to be doing a lot of editing.
Valentine has gone. Here comes now the gown.
Romeo and Juliet are together in eternity.
Romeo and Juliet. 40,000 men and women every day.
Romeo and Juliet. 40,000 men and women every day.
Remind me. Every day. 40,000 coming every day.
It'd be like hell. Come on baby.
Wanna take a ride?
To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
To talk with Art Bell from east to the Rockies, call toll free 800-825-5033.
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Do you really think Romeo and Juliet are in eternity together?
number pressing option 5 and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
What do you think? Do you really think Romeo and Juliet are in eternity together?
I've wondered about that one for a long time.
Tonight, maybe we'll explore that possibility.
Metaphorically, anyway.
Actually, in some ways, quite literally.
If you'll just stay right where you are ahead, Dr. Jeffrey Long, and... Don't move.
A Jeffrey Long, MD, is a leading near-death experience researcher.
Dr. Long founded the Near-Death Experience Research Foundation.
It has a website, by the way, www.nderf.org and two other related websites devoted to experiences related to NDEs.
After Death Communication Research Foundation, and Out-of-Body Experience Research Foundation.
Both have websites.
Dr. Long serves on the Board of Directors of INDS, International Association for Near-Death Studies, and chairs the INDS Research Committee.
Dr. Long, a physician actively practicing the medical specialty of radiation oncology, that would be the use of radiation To treat cancer in Tacoma, Washington.
So, Dr. Long, welcome back to the program.
Well, thank you, Art.
It's a real pleasure to be here.
Great to have you.
I guess doing what you do, treating people with cancer, You know, I understand there are many successes to be talked about, but in this day and even modern day and age, a lot of cancer victims obviously don't make it.
So you would see the face of death in your profession, wouldn't you?
Absolutely, that's unfortunately true.
The good news is we're curing more people of cancer than we ever did before, but unfortunately there are people that we just simply can't cure.
And these are people that are going to have symptoms of cancer.
We try to make them better.
But ultimately these people will face death.
As a physician doing the kind of work you do, how do you emotionally isolate yourself?
Are you able to successfully do that or not?
I think yes and no.
I think any time any physician approaches patients with cancer you have to have a strong
measure of compassion.
You have to hurt just a little bit when they do and yet you can't let that hurt that you
experience when your patients fail, especially when they fail their treatment unexpectedly.
Yes.
It gets you down.
You have to be strong for the next patient you're going to face and the next and the next.
And so it's a little bit of a balancing act.
Fortunately, I think I've achieved some measure of success in doing that.
That's good.
I worked in, you know, one time I had a year as a 911 dispatcher and I found myself unable to isolate You know, myself from the kind of thing that I faced at work.
It just stayed with me and I couldn't sleep and it was changing my life and I quickly decided that wasn't for me.
So that's quite a trick you pull there.
Yeah, I can understand.
Art, it really takes years, I think, before you can really come to grips with the kind of drama facing people that have life-threatening illnesses.
It's difficult.
It's a real challenge that doctors go through.
And yet being a physician has certainly been important in my understanding of near-death experiences and leading to the work that I do now.
Well, in all the years that I've done this talk show, and that's a lot of years now, you know there are a few things that really stick out that I just can never and never until my dying day will forget.
And Sarah's NDE is right in the middle of that category.
It was the most amazing, emotionally incredible program I think we ever did.
There's no question about that, Art.
That was one of the most gripping programs.
This poor girl riding her bicycle home from school, hit by a car, thrown over 100 feet, so close to death she's actually partly paralyzed on one side of her body for the rest of her life, and yet her account was absolutely incredible.
No question about that.
Detailed.
There was no hesitation.
It was so detailed.
I mean, this other side that she went through, this maze that she went through, was amazing.
Just absolutely amazing.
It utterly captured me.
And how are you with this now?
In other words, obviously who you are, you think this all must be true.
How does a physician, who is a pretty hard-nosed guy, get to believing that these patients are actually Leaving their bodies and going elsewhere.
You know, that's a great question, Art.
As a doctor that treats cancer, I'm well known in the medical community as being very hard-nosed about evidence-based medicine.
If you want to treat a patient a certain way, my question is, what's the evidence?
So how could I come to believe in the truth and the reality of near-death experience?
And that's interesting.
Actually, Art, I first heard about near-death experience back in the early 1980s.
I didn't hear it on the radio or TV because I was in training to be a radiation oncology physician, so I really didn't have time to do much of anything except eat, sleep, and study, basically.
And yet, when I was looking up an article pertinent to treating cancer patients in the Journal of the American Medical Association, one of the world's most prestigious medical journals, I found, to my amazement one day, an article entitled, Near-Death Experiences, and I was immediately taken aback.
I said, I've never heard about this in My residency training in medical school.
What's this all about?
So I read the article and it was regarding near-death experiences and some of the early research that had gone on in the 1980s.
And I was immediately amazed.
I said, this is absolutely incredible.
If this really happens.
Knowing what I know about medicine, there's absolutely no way that this could happen.
Dr. Long, was there a medical explanation proffered for, you know, the stories that were chronicled there?
In other words, a hard-nosed medical... I mean, I've seen people on 20-20 get up and doctors explain, look, it's the brain dying from the outside going in.
Of course, they see a light.
And at the end of what appears to be a tunnel and that sort of thing, because the brain tissues are dying.
That's what I heard.
You know, let's talk about that specific example, because that's often used.
the period that they tell you are two-step when you're dying the brain oxygen level gradually drop
consequence uh... especially when the blood level drop
if you would expect during the time when the heart stopped
uh... the blood flow to the retina the portion of the i responsible for vision
would gradually uh...
local gradually decreased specially from the outside in and that might result in
the station
of a light that would uh...
potentially a light that would actually gradually grow larger
uh... the problem with positions that advocate that point of view another skeptic
similar arguments that they're simply not talking to people that had a near-death
experience sort of trying to explain the tunnel experience of a near-death
experience the light that gets brighter and brighter as if you're
going through a tunnel horse light
Yes.
But, Art, when you talk to these people that have had a near-death experience, that's really not what they're describing.
It's not at all unusual for near-death experiencers to describe tunnels where there's other beings with them, they're talking, they see multiple colors or patterns within the tunnel, they're moving very, very rapidly.
There can be a whole host of other visual and even auditory stimuli during their travel down the tunnel.
You know, even if the skeptics are correct that theoretically you could have an illusion of a light getting brighter and brighter, that has nothing to do with what the great majority of near-death experiencers describe.
Well, if we're really hard-nosed here, Doctor, What percentage of people who come close to death or physically actually die on operating tables or at accident scenes and that sort of thing, what percentage actually report near-death experiences?
About 15 or 20 percent are that have a cardiac arrest, their heart stops, or if they stop breathing will have a near-death experience.
In the surveys, 1992 Gallup survey, Estimated that in the United States, about 13 million adults had experienced near-death experience, about 5% of the population.
Given that's a lot, numerically, it's a bunch, but far from the even majority, so, you know, you've got to wonder about that a little bit.
Yeah, certainly with any medical phenomena or psychological or any kind of paranormal experiences, you almost never encounter a situation where everybody had a particular experience or everybody didn't.
I think it's far more startling that that number of people have had an experience like that than a majority didn't have.
Alright, well let's talk about that number for a second.
Of that number, Doctor, how many commonalities are found in the stories they tell?
That's one of the most evidential things to me about near-death experiences.
Unlike dreams or hallucinations, or just random experiences that people might have, the pattern of near-death experiences is very, very ordered.
Of course, there's the associated life-threatening event, their heart stops, or they stop breathing.
After about 10 seconds of your heart not beating, blood no longer flows to the brain.
Within about 10 seconds, if you measure an electroencephalogram, that's a measure of electrical activity in the brain, it goes to zero.
These people are not capable of thinking, and yet at this time, they may have their consciousness apart from the body, very often above their body, looking down at their resuscitation efforts.
This happens in about half the near-death experiences.
They're able to hear and see what's going on down below them at a time they're clinically dead.
What could possibly, possibly, is there any medical explanation for people seeing the tools that were used to work on them, things that were said by nurses and doctors in those fleeting Incredible seconds.
I mean, it's just impossible, isn't it?
With the detail they describe, we've had people describe the serial numbers on the machines that were used to resuscitate them.
We've had people describe in detail, you know, some clothes that are not aware.
As a physician, I have some special insights on this.
Very often, the near-death experiencers describe, shall we say, unprofessional behavior while the resuscitation is going on.
Unfortunately, it's often doctors yelling, cussing, Equipment's not available.
People are frantic.
Things don't go well during the resuscitation effort.
Right.
A lot of anxiety.
That's not what you see on TV.
That's not what you would think about happens.
Well, they couldn't put that on TV.
They could, yeah, but I mean... No, they couldn't.
Well, I mean, they can't.
HBO, maybe.
Yeah, maybe.
But the bottom line is, what I hear the near-death experiencers describe as their resuscitation efforts really smacks of reality to me.
I mean, this is how things really happen in the real world.
They go on in other parts of their near-death experience.
They may even hear themselves being pronounced dead.
Powerful emotions they feel, intense love and peace.
Going through a tunnel, which we talked about a little bit.
Is there any way that you can explain medically how a patient could hear themselves pronounced dead?
Is there anything that we could hang our hook on that would explain that?
No.
If your heart has stopped, and doctors are very good at determining if there's no heartbeat, Ten seconds later, there is no brain electrical activity that can be measured at all, even by our most sensitive equipment.
You cannot be thinking.
You cannot have a conscious act.
That's why these people are literally unconscious.
As the name implies, no potential for even any kind of a conscious thought at all.
And yet what they're describing is so vivid, so detailed, it's just absolutely medically inexplicable.
And your colleagues, Doctor, obviously since you talk about this so much, you must be a topic of conversation among your colleagues.
How do they, when you discuss this with them, how do they process this information?
Well, like other doctors, they really aren't exposed to near-death experience because they're so focused on their Medical knowledge, which isn't all bad.
They need that to help save lives.
But when I talk to my colleagues, if I have a chance to sit down where it's quiet and it's over supper and they become aware of what I do, by the time you actually start talking to doctors and they lower their initial resistance to near-death experience, it's amazing how many doctors are open to this.
I haven't had a single doctor yet after I explained All the details of near-death experience and what happens.
Not one doctor who's carefully listened to all the evidence believes it's medically explicable that's really sat down and listened.
So it's really quite rewarding.
Has all this changed your, what's the right word, your spiritual person?
I mean, as you've learned all this, Doctor, what's this done to your sense of spiritualism?
Oh, this has had a profound impact.
Week by week, people share their near-death experience accounts on my website.
There's a web form.
So week after week, I hear about these dramatic experiences.
I hear about some wisdom they may have brought back from the other side that is directly relevant to the life that we all face on Earth today.
There's no question that this has made me far more confident, not only say confident, it's a knowing that we're all going to survive bodily death, that there is an afterlife, and that it's wonderful.
That's significant for me, the people around me that I love, certainly my patients.
I haven't lost a single patient.
But Doctor, there were parts of Sarah's story that weren't wonderful.
There were parts of her story that were troubling.
She opened doors and saw, I remember, many suffering or, you know, in not good situations.
Remember that?
Oh, I absolutely do.
Long-time listeners may recall the very earliest part of her near-death experience involved some very hellish realms.
Yes.
There were beings, and there were monsters, and they seemed to be harming other people, and it was just horrible.
The sounds and the sights.
She was floating above this, looking down on this, were very dramatic.
Our frightening near-death experiences happen about 15% of the time.
Some of the most horrific things that I've ever read in my life are from that very, very, very small percentage of people that have hellish near-death experiences.
But there's more to it than that.
Even the near-death experiencers, over time, will come to process their experience and actually grow spiritually themselves.
That's an interesting topic, and perhaps if we have some time to go into that a little bit further, we could explain that.
In a high percentage of the cases of those who face hell, they do change their lives?
Absolutely.
The people that have had these, and again, it's a very, very small percentage that even of the people that have frightening near-death experiences actually have hellish near-death experiences.
And they are horrific.
I mean, really horrific.
But of those that do, they change, and they change positively.
It takes often years for them to come to grips with what they had experienced, but over time they ultimately come to believe that the ruling force in this universe is love.
that they sort of faced their very darkness but at the end of that
passageway of of coming to grips with the darkness they face they see the
light and they understand that there really is love that's really
the end point for all of us in this world
all cases uh... i think that we've had on the air when we take audience calls
uh... people ask about about somebody who might not
be cited that's why tonight's guest vicki nora talk i think it is right
Yes, correct.
It's so interesting because, tell me if I'm wrong, but she has been blind from birth?
That's absolutely true.
There's different degrees of blindness.
You can be legally blind and still have a little bit of vision.
It's not true for Vicki.
She has no vision and has had absolutely none for her entire life.
She was born very, very premature.
Decades ago would often put these infants under oxygen and that would damage the retina, the part of the eye that's necessary for vision.
And so Vicki has had absolutely no vision at all at no point during her life until she had her near-death experience.
And that she visualized.
Stunningly visual.
I sure would encourage your listeners to stay out because this is one you won't want to miss.
Vicki's near-death experience is Among the most, if not actually the most, evidential near-death experience that has ever been reported.
There's absolutely zero, no plausible medical explanation for what Vicki is going to share at all.
And there's no question about the fact that she's been blind from birth.
She's never had vision.
I've met Vicki in person.
She actually lives in Seattle.
I live in Tacoma.
How did you hear about her, Doctor?
I actually heard about her once I got involved in the Near-death experience research and interacting with other people.
I was aware she lived in the area.
There's a Friends of INS, the International Association for Near-Death Study Group that meets up in Seattle, and I was absolutely stunned to see Vicki appear one day and give her presentation.
What Vicki will do for people that ask if she's blind is take off her sunglasses and say, see, as you can see from my eyes, I can't see.
Oh my gosh, there's nothing with her eyes.
She has the, her eyes look like You know, she was damaged at birth.
There's no vision at all in those eyes.
But I was absolutely astounded when she shared her account, and certainly other researchers have investigated her account, too.
Vicki's been sharing her account for a long, long time, and it's really dramatic.
You go from not being able to see at all, any time, to what she encounters.
Vision-wise, it's absolutely astounding.
All right, well then that's coming right up.
Hold it right there, doctor.
Dr. Jeffrey Long, who is a radiation oncologist, deals very frequently with people right on the edge.
We're talking about near-death experiences.
Vicki Noratuck will join us in a moment.
She had one.
Only thing is, she's been blind, totally blind, since birth.
I'm Art Bell.
It's the night, my body's weak. I'm on the run, no time to sleep.
I've got to run, run like the wind, to be free again.
And I've got such a long way to go, such a long way to go.
I've got to run, run like the wind, to be free again.
The heart of city streets is beating.
Bye.
Like when the neons turned the dark to day.
We were too hot to be sleeping.
We had to get out before the magic got away.
In the morning with the night.
I'm going out with the night, painting in the shadows.
I'll fight you and I, till the morning light.
Do talk with Art Bell. Call the wildcard line at area code 7.
The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll free at 800-825-5033.
line is area code 775-727-1222. To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll-free
at 800-825-5033. From west of the Rockies, call Art at 800-618-8255.
International callers may reach Art Bell by calling your in-country Sprint Access
number, pressing Option 5, and 800-893-0903. From coast to coast and worldwide on the
internet, this is Coast to Coast AM That's what we do, run with the night, play with the shadows.
That's Coast to Coast AM, all right.
Dr. Jeffrey Long, who's a radiation oncologist, doctor, is with us.
And coming up in a moment, Vicky Norato, somebody he met in the work he does, which is with near-death experiencers.
It's bound to be quite a story.
Stay right there.
You want...
Stay right there.
Oh OK, radio is one of those open forums where you don't lay things out ahead of time.
Never do that, actually.
And so we're just going to let this unfold as it does.
Dr. Geoffrey Long, are you still there?
I'm still here.
Good.
OK, let's see if we've got Vicky.
Vicky Noratuck, I hope I've got that right, is a Thank you so much.
Where are you, Vicki?
Where am I?
I'm in Seattle.
You're in Seattle.
Wow! She performs in clubs and with bands, entertains nursing home residents, and has been blind since birth.
Welcome, Vicki.
Thank you so much.
Where are you, Vicki?
Where am I? I'm in Seattle.
You're in Seattle. Okay.
I have probably a whole bunch of, and I know my audience does too, real questions,
kind of probably dumb questions that everybody in the world asks you, so bear with me.
No problem.
A lot of people have curiosity about people who have been blind since birth, and that has been the case with you, right?
That's correct.
What happened to you?
Why have you been blind?
Too much oxygen.
I was only in the womb 22 weeks, and my eyes are totally atrophied.
Wow!
You were really a preemie!
Yes, I was down below one pound fourteen ounces.
I was three pounds when I was born and then I went down below one fourteen.
My God!
You almost disappeared before you came back.
Yes, that's what my mother said.
Okay, so now here come the stupid sorry for asking kind of questions, but people just want to know.
If you're blind from birth, How, Vicki, do you conceptualize things?
Is it only by the sense of feel that you, in your mind, can attach some meaning to what you're encountering?
Yes, for me.
There are people that have differences in that, but for me, and for a lot of us who have been blind since birth, that's the way it is.
It's very difficult to conceptualize something visually, and I also do not, and never have, dreamed visually.
That was question number two, sitting right on my screen.
I've always wanted to know, says Kim in Edmonton, Alberta, if blind people dream.
Those who have lost their sight later in life, or, you know, after they have been able to see for a little bit of time at least, even like two or three years or something like that, They have visual impressions in their dreams, but those of us who are blind from birth do not.
And we also do not have rapid eye movement in sleep.
Really?
So, doctor, help me here.
That rapid eye movement, you would think it would happen to everybody, but she's saying not her?
You know, rapid eye movement is often associated with visual stimuli in dreams.
So, if you have no visual stimuli, that's sort of, you know, an objective measurement that you're not seeing things while you're dreaming.
So she never enters a dream state?
Is that correct?
No, she doesn't have a visual component to her dream.
Rapid eye movement is, you know, associated with seeing things in a dream and some kind of a visual component.
But no rapid eye movement, as I understand it, means that she's not seeing anything, so there's no need for her eye to move in response to any visual stimuli that's occurring in a dream.
Is she ever in the dream state where it would have occurred if she had been sighted?
Vicki?
In my dreams are taste, touch, sound, and smell.
I have very vivid dreams, but I just don't have any visual impressions.
No light, no colors, nothing.
So the dreams you have then are of the things that you have experienced.
Smell, touch, Taste and sound.
Taste and sound.
Right.
Only.
Only.
And so that's exactly how you dream.
So one of your dreams then would be of some unusual smell or being near something and hearing it.
Or musical performances.
I dream of playing different musical performances or having encounters, conversations, bad or good.
I have nightmares.
Dreams of falling, I have dreams of flying, I have dreams of, you know, weird, it's just typical except for no visual impression.
Okay, but your dream of flying, you said you dreamed of flying, that's very common to many of us.
In my dreams, I, of course, visualize what I'm flying over.
In fact, that's a very large part of the sense of flying, that you're, you know, going over the trees and the buildings and, you know, zooming around in the sky above you and the clouds and the things that the sighted associate with flying.
Not for me.
It's just the feeling of flying, but there's no impressions of any visual things.
For you, then, it's a sensation of sort of floating.
Yes.
Oh, that's fascinating.
Okay, may I ask how old you are now, Vicki?
I'm 53.
I'll be 54 in December.
Are you a religious person?
Yes, definitely, especially since this near-death experience happened when I was 22 due to a car accident caused by a drunk driver, and I have a skull fracture, concussion, neck injury, back injury, and leg injury, and I've become Even closer to God since that happened.
And prior to that?
Before that I was seeking Him, but just kind of uncertain and I was fearful about life.
I had been severely abused sexually, emotionally, physically, every way you can imagine as a child.
All right.
What happened to you was a car accident, right?
Yes.
Were you the driver of the car, or how did that... No, no.
No, huh?
No, that was not... What an obvious, what a stupid question.
I'm sorry, of course you weren't the driver.
You were in the passenger seat.
I was a passenger in a VW bus, which was totaled, and I was thrown out and dragged across the pavement, and then a woman who weighed Nearly 300 pounds landed on top of me, and then that compounded my injuries.
Oh, I'll bet.
I'm glad she wasn't hurt, though.
Exactly what happened?
I mean, did you collide with another car?
Yes, we were spun into a retaining wall.
We were rear-ended and then spun into a retaining wall.
And the VW bus was just like an accordion is the way they described it to me, but it was non-existent.
Not being sighted, did you, in the seconds that preceded the accident, did you have any warning, any understanding of what was happening at all?
Well, the woman sitting next to me, the one that landed on top of me, screamed, look out, look out, and then that was it.
And then the next thing I knew, I was, my body was lying on the street, and what would be me, I was going in and out of my mouth several times.
And it was like, the only analogy I can think of is the body was like the peel and I was like the banana, but I had all of my consciousness there, as far as my thoughts and impressions and feelings, but I was not in that body.
You said going in and out of your mouth.
Yeah.
Um, that was a, how are you telling me that you knew that's what you were doing going
Is that something you felt or at that point something you saw?
Both.
And it was frightening.
And I could not relate to imagining things that way.
And I saw the buildings and the street.
at the time of the accident I thought that very briefly after I left my body
after I went out of my mouth I was up above everything looking down at it and at first
it was scary and for the first time in your life you saw yes and it was
not pleasant arm really not pleasant
arm as in upward because of that particular circumstance or not pleasant in what way
Because I couldn't relate to it.
I couldn't translate what it was I was perceiving of because I'm not accustomed to seeing things.
And it was very frightening initially, but then I adapted gradually.
It's hard to even imagine having just even a fleeting sight of something you've never
ever seen.
Eerie and foreign are the two words that I can come up with that would describe how it was at first.
Okay.
Doctor, what was happening at this moment medically with Vicki?
Yeah, Vicki's given me some further details.
She had symptoms suggestive of massive head trauma, including probably a base of skull fracture.
In fact, there's a lot more to Vicki's story when she was in the emergency room.
I think the doctors who were actually attending you at the time were afraid that the injuries were severe enough that, as I recall, Vicki, you said that they were afraid you wouldn't be able to hear because of the enormity of your injuries.
Yes.
What else did they say?
Well of course this going in and out of my mouth happened before I was in the emergency room and then there was a blank space and then I was in the emergency room and I was up on the ceiling at Harborview Medical Center looking down at what was going on.
Alright, you don't remember the ambulance drive?
No.
So the next thing you remember you're on the ceiling at the hospital in the emergency room looking down at yourself.
Yes.
I do know that I was put in a car I have a vague memory of being put in a car and then of being put on a backboard and then I was totally gone.
You were able from the ceiling to see yourself?
Yes.
So this would have been the first time in your life that you ever saw yourself?
Yes.
And as weird as this sounds, it meant nothing.
I felt very detached from that body.
You know what?
I can understand that since you had never seen that body before.
Blind since birth, it would be easier to feel detached, wouldn't it, I guess?
I imagine, but I gather that this is common to some near-death experiencers, so that they feel this detachment, but I was up looking down at everything.
I was up on the ceiling with what would be termed as my back up against the ceiling, and I had a body that was made of light, and it was similar to my own body, except that it was made out of light, and that's the only way I can describe it to you.
Uh, the one doctor said, well, it's a pity now that she could be deaf as well as blind because she's got blood on her left eardrum.
And I thought, oh man, is that me they're talking about?
Am I dead or what?
Really?
And I was trying to make sense of the whole thing.
And then the female doctor said, well, we don't even know if she's going to survive and she could be in a permanent vegetative state if she does.
And that made me mad.
And I floated down and I felt like I was shouting to her.
And I said, can't you understand?
I'm fine.
I'm right here.
Why don't you understand that?
I'm fine.
There's nothing wrong with me.
And I felt wonderful.
I mean, really, really wonderful.
And I reached out what would be analogous to my right hand to touch her.
You know, like you take hold of somebody's arm or shoulder or something to try to get their attention?
Yes.
And my so-called right hand went through her right arm.
Huh.
Oh, the onrush of emotions and sensations that you must have been feeling, and to suddenly be sighted in this way, and to be seeing other people, I mean, virtually for the first time in your life, all of that would have been trauma enough, and here you are sort of feeling calm and detached about it, but at this point you're beginning to get a little excited, it sounds like.
Yeah.
About your own situation, and that would be That would certainly be understandable.
But you remember all they were doing and saying, huh?
Yes.
And when I came out of the coma and was lucid enough to inquire about it, I confirmed that it had all indeed been said.
How did the medical workers respond to the fact that you had heard and were accurately describing all of this?
One nurse was very sympathetic and believed me.
And I told her that I'd been dead, and she did believe me, and my mother believed me, and quite a few people did believe me.
This was in 1973 when this happened, when I was 22 years old.
Right.
And so this wasn't really talked about that much.
But one nurse said, oh, you must have hit your head a lot harder than people thought you did.
And she implied that I was kind of nuts, so I just didn't talk to her.
Uh-huh.
Doctor, did Vicki code?
Yes, Vicki.
It's my understanding you had a arrest.
By the way, I might add, for your listeners' sake, This happened in 1973.
A near-death experience was first described by Dr. Raymond Moody in his book, Life After Life, in 1975.
That is right.
Yeah, no one would have had any idea about this experience at that time.
She wouldn't have read about this and have concocted it in any way in her own mind.
It was two years prior to even the beginning of Dr. Moody.
Yeah, there's no way that anybody would have understood or even heard about these experiences.
But, Vicki, I understand you had a, you know, things were very serious as far as your heart and breathing.
I was told that they couldn't bring me back for four minutes, and they kept saying, we can't bring her back, we can't bring her back.
Meaning, Vicki, that you had stopped breathing, your heart had stopped for four minutes?
I was told that I was dead for four minutes, as they put it.
They didn't actually get to pronouncing me dead, but they said that they were having difficulty reviving me during a four-minute period.
Right.
And meanwhile, my oldest, dearest friend, Ann, down in Oregon, woke up from a sound sleep.
And she was screaming alone in her apartment.
And she called my first husband.
I was married to my first husband, Doug, at that time.
And she said, Vicki's dead.
Vicki's dead.
And I was coming home from an engagement at a club when this happened.
It was like 1.30 in the morning or so.
Between 1.30 and 2 in the morning.
And Doug said, Oh, come on.
She's just on her way home and she hasn't gotten here yet.
Go back to sleep and you've just had a bad dream.
And then the people from Harborview called him.
About 20 minutes later and told him that I probably wouldn't survive and that he needed to get down there and he called her back and apologized to her.
Oh my god.
I bet she'll never be the same.
But she and I are so close.
I mean, we're like twins in the sense that we sense each other's emotions and feelings.
Boy, I mean, even if you had that sudden feeling that Vicky's dead, you'd probably think twice before you picked up the phone and called a relative and said something like that on the phone.
And Ann is blind, too.
We've known each other ever since I was four years old.
That's incredible.
And she was very close to me, and she knew, and she instantly was aware of the fact of what was happening to me, and she knew that she had to let him know.
Yes.
Oh, that's amazing by itself.
Had you had experiences like this, any connection with her that close previously?
Yes.
I mean not quite that close but I mean we were very attuned to each other all the time.
How do you process or do you process the information looking down on your own body with somebody telling you or you're hearing that you might not come back or you might be a vegetable or whatever but you're gone.
I mean that's really something to try and digest and process.
Well, I was very much alive, so the way I felt about it, I was fine.
And so I really didn't care too much about the body, frankly.
I just sort of thought, oh, well, I can't communicate with these people.
But I did feel frustrated about the fact that I couldn't get through to them.
And I thought, well, I'm out of here.
I can't get through to these people and let them know that I'm all right.
And immediately I went up through the ceiling as if it were nothing at all.
Can you recall how shocked you were at having sight and seeing things that you had only previously imagined or heard?
Yes, I definitely recall that.
And then I was up above the street again and looking down and I was kind of like a puppy rolling in the grass, as it were, because I didn't have to worry about bumping into anything and I was floating up above the buildings in the street and really enjoying it.
And then I got sucked into this kind of tube thing.
Tube thing?
Yeah, it had apertures in it that you could see out of, but it traveled at a very rapid rate of speed.
And I was sucked into it, pleasantly enough.
I mean, it wasn't awful, but it was just... And this was from a position outside, where you were looking at buildings in the street?
Yes.
And then all of a sudden I was in this tube thing going very, very, very fast.
Huh.
Do you think that this may have coincided with the coding?
In other words, when your heart stopped?
Probably.
I don't know.
But all I know is that it happened and I was going very quickly toward this light and I heard the most beautiful sound like wind chimes.
And I heard all kinds of songs being sung, and you could hear them individually and collectively at the same time, and they were praises to God.
And I was going toward this light and this beautiful sound, but before that, I went past this awful area, like you were talking about earlier, and it had this terrible, sulfuric odor to it, and there were people that were miserable in it, and there was another place that there were people that were just kind of Weird, they just didn't seem to have any motivation and I wanted to shake them and say, don't you understand the meaning of life?
Come on you guys, get with the program.
Well that sounds like you went through hell, or a hellish kind of place, followed by, I don't know, maybe some place in between?
Well the first one was the confused people and then I went past the really hellish place.
And I thought, oh, I don't want to be anywhere near this place, and immediately my tube speeded up and I went away from it, but... Vicki, hold tight, hold tight.
We're at the top of the hour.
My guests are Dr. Jeffrey Long and Vicki Noratok, blind since birth.
What she's describing right now is the beginning of a near-death experience.
She coded for four minutes.
From the high desert to the middle of the night, I'm Art Bell.
When you subscribe to the app.
I'm Art Bell.
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It is an amazing night underway.
Dr. Jeffrey Long, who's a radiation oncologist, has brought us Vicki Noratuck, blind since birth.
She's never seen a thing until she died.
At least, uh, died for about four minutes, and we're right in the middle of, uh, listening to what occurred during that period of time.
stay right there once again uh... doctor jeffrey long and the canara talk to
you to welcome back Thank you.
Vicki, just a quick one here, and it's another one of these sort of questions that I guess maybe all of us wonder about, but could you ask your guest please, Art, for me, this is Dr. Nothing in Eugene, Oregon, how seeing for the first time translated to her other senses, in other words, For example, the fabric and bulk of a nurse's coat as compared to something only felt before or imagined.
Was there any of that kind of detail in the early stages when you realized you suddenly had sight?
No, it was like hearing a foreign language and not being able to understand it.
Ha, of course.
All right, so you had been, you actually went from the operating table and the ceiling to outside the buildings and then sucked into this something.
It was a tube.
A four-year-old boy, I guess, at one point when he was dying, described it as a noodle, but it was, it was like being inside of this vehicle thing that had apertures in it that I could see out of.
And it was traveling very fast, and then I was going toward this wind chime sound and a beautiful light, and I went past this place where people were very confused and sad, and I wanted to get them to listen and to realize how important life was, and then I went past this other place, and two years ago, a couple years ago, yeah, I guess it was about two years ago, some friends of mine had a sample of rock from Sodom and Gomorrah, and I didn't know that that was what it was, and they wanted me to touch this thing, And the smell that emanated from that sample of rock was the same smell that came from that awful area.
Huh.
It's strange, and there's a parallel, Doctor, to Sarah's.
Sarah perhaps had it a little differently in the terms of setup, but she passed areas just like this.
Yeah, that's very true.
The concept, several different hellish realms, The confusion has been described in a number of other NDEs and in the actual hellish realms where there's more hellish imagery.
It's certainly well known in NDEs.
And that's just like Sarah, that's correct.
So, Vicky, did you have a sense of time?
At all.
A lot of us wonder about that, whether in another realm, or on the other side, or whatever words we want to attach to it.
There is time, as we feel it and understand it here, a literal, linear sense of time happening.
It was slowed down.
It was like a whole lot happened.
And I was told that this was four minutes during which all of this transpired, but I had done some tape recording of this whole incident, and they have like, I guess, five and a half hours of transcripts from this experience through International Association of Near-Death Studies, and they wanted me to describe this in detail, but I'm trying to encapsulate it the best I can.
Well, we've got a lot of time on radio, so give us all you can.
I went toward this beautiful light, and There were people ahead of me and people behind me in this tube thing, but I was alone in mine.
But I knew that there were people ahead of me and there were people behind me.
And there was a place where there were animals, too, and I wanted to find my childhood pets, but I couldn't.
I couldn't get out of my tube thing yet.
You would have no way, I guess, of recognizing these people, even if you were able to see them, huh?
No.
But I knew they were there.
And I knew that there were some ahead of me and some behind me.
And then I came To the end of my journey and was very pleasantly ejected from this tube.
Ejected?
Yes.
Just sort of, poof, out?
Yeah, it was just like, it was like, well, this is the end.
It sort of reminded me of toast popping out of a toaster.
Like, well, this is the end for you.
Bye.
So you popped out.
And I ended up in this area where there was, I landed on some huge flowers, and I was worried about hurting them, but It was communicated to me mentally, I guess you could say, that I didn't hurt them, and they instantly sprang back.
Ha!
It's beginning to sound like Robin Williams' movie, Flowers.
You just popped out into flowers.
Yes.
I mean, like endless fields of flowers, or...?
No, but there was, it was kind of like, it reminded me of a park shelter, because there were structures there, and there was a big gate, a beautiful, ornate gate, but I was not allowed to go near that.
And as I was ejected from this tube, there were five people there to meet me, and there was a river there, and there were these giant flowers, and there were birds, and... Holy smokes!
And there were five people there to meet you?
Yes.
What do you remember, or what do you know, what can you tell us of these people?
I knew instantly who they were.
They were two deceased classmates that I had known when I was a child.
And blind kids can be very cruel, too.
And Debbie and Diane were there to meet me, and when I was little, they would make fun of me for associating with Debbie and Diane because they were both profoundly retarded.
Well, Debbie wasn't so much so.
She was hydrocephalic, but she wasn't altogether as up with everything as, you know, the kids thought, oh yeah, she's weird.
She was not.
She was a wonderful kid, and I loved her.
And Diane, She was profoundly retarded, but she was... I was one of the few people that she would allow to hug her, and I had to protect her from putting sucker sticks up her nose and things like that, and I was always watching out for her and feeling her hands to make sure what she was holding and making sure she was safe.
And she passed away when she was six years old.
She had a seizure in the bathtub and died.
And she was there to meet me, and they were both beautiful.
They were totally well, and they were fine, and I knew immediately who they were.
Was there any communication?
Mental.
But not... I couldn't... I couldn't touch them or reach out to them, but there was instant recognition among all of us.
And there were two people, Ferd and Lila, who had taken care of me when I was a child.
They were there too.
And my grandmother was psychotic prior to her death.
Her doctor told me and my mother that she was psychotic and she had been one of the people who abused me.
But she believed I was a reincarnation of her dead husband and proved it in every way you could possibly fathom.
And she raised me and I ran away from home when I was 19 and for a long time I hated her and I asked God to please help me to take that hatred away because I didn't want to feel that way toward her.
You were a very troubled young lady.
Yes.
Weren't you?
Very troubled.
And so This experience healed a lot of that, and she was there to meet me, because prior to her death, I did go down and see her.
She died two years before this.
She died in 1971, and she asked my forgiveness before she died, and she said, I'm off my rocker, I'm off my rocker, and I said, yeah, Grandma, I know you are.
So she asked me to forgive her and said that she was sorry for everything that she had done and that she honestly believed I was grandpa in a female body and I told her, you did some terrible things to me but I do forgive you, which I honestly did.
And she was there reaching her arms out to me and before she was actually dead she repented of everything and she asked me to pray with her and she said that she wanted God to forgive her for everything.
And so then Jesus was there And he held up his hand and said, No, you may not go to my father's house now.
It is not your time.
How do you know?
How do you know that was Jesus?
It was like direct link, mind to mind, spirit to spirit.
It was a total understanding of Him and he of me, and like there was nothing that could be hidden.
And I immediately recognized him and knew that that was who it was.
And he said to you, or communicated to you, it is not your time?
Yes, he said, it is not your time yet.
I know when every sparrow falls, it is not your time yet.
And he said, you may not go to my father's house now.
You must go back and give birth to your children.
And I knew then that I wanted to go back, because at first I told him, no, I don't want to leave you.
And he embraced me.
It was like he surrounded me with himself.
And the only analogy I can think of is it was the difference between recording with a microphone, is the way we talk, and the way that he communicated was like recording with a patch cord.
Got it.
And it was like, it was just total oneness.
It was Nothing could be misunderstood, and he knew everything about me, and I knew that he knew everything about me.
Vicki, you realize that a great deal of what you're saying right now is obviously very Christian in nature.
Yes.
What do you think happens when an Islamic person dies?
Well, I could never presume to judge that.
All I know is what happened to me, and that this is the experience I had.
I understand.
I understand.
I just somehow have to believe that it would be a different situation, maybe as they imagine.
Do you think that, or do you really think that what you experienced is what all would experience, or some variation thereof?
Well, I couldn't say what all people would experience, because the only thing I can say is what I experienced, and it was very, very clear and detailed to me.
And he was there, and I knew immediately who he was, and there was a voice But it was thought as well, and his voice sounded, and I knew there were the nail prints in his hands and in his feet, too.
I saw that, and I saw that there had been a wound in his side, and I saw all those things, and I knew that, but he was perfect.
His body was perfect.
Alright, and he said, not time yet?
Every sparrow I know, when it falls, and then what?
And then he said that I needed to go back to have my children, to give birth to my children.
And another thing he said was, you have been through many hard things, and you will go through many more, some of which man will call unforgivable, but you must forgive.
Loving and forgiving are the key to life.
And he told me that I was to go back and to teach people about loving and forgiving.
And that I would be put in many situations where that would be severely tested.
And he also said that it was not up to me who was to be forgiven and who was not.
And that I was to just make every effort to forgive Whatever my feelings were and that the justice and the vengeance would be his.
Well, you had a lot to forgive, didn't you?
Oh, it got more.
There was much more after this clinical death experience.
There were a lot, many even worse things.
Well, I mean, in order to forgive, there was a lot in your life that you just finished telling us about.
There's a big mountain to forgive there.
Yes.
But, another interesting factor about this was that This was a place where all knowledge was, and I could call to mind anything that I wanted to know, and it would be there.
The information would be there, and I understood physics and astronomy and different things.
I was an A student, but there were certain things that I had a lot of difficulty with comprehending.
Do you remember specifically what inquiries you made, given that opportunity?
How something could be built without nails.
And I knew that he was a carpenter, so I knew he could tell me that.
Good question.
Did you get the answer?
Yes, I knew it then.
I didn't bring the knowledge back with me, but I remember having it.
And I told him that I didn't want to leave him, and I didn't want to leave the knowledge, but he told me that I would have it again someday when I came back, when it was my time, but that this was not my time.
Then he said, first watch this.
And he showed me a review of my entire life, from my birth up until the car crash when I was 22 years old.
And in that, I experienced not only my own emotions, but everyone else's.
Yes, I've heard this.
And I found out what it was like to be my grandmother.
And I felt her mental illness.
Oh, that's incredible.
And after that, I was...
I'm sorry.
After that I was able to forgive her even more and to heal from what she had done to me because I felt how it was to be her and the torment that she went through.
Yeah, I was going to ask how you could feel somebody's mental illness and what an incredible thing that would be to be suddenly inside somebody so out of it, so out of it.
I felt so much compassion for her that I never had felt before.
I mean, I forgave her and I was willing to do it, but after that I felt almost gut-wrenching compassion.
And then I understood that one scripture that talks about Jesus' bowels being, um, oh, what's the word?
Um, they were rent, as it were, with the pain that he felt for us, you know, and how how his whole inside ached with the love and the sorrow and
everything that he felt toward all of this.
That's a lot to feel, alright.
And again, there's no sense of time in all of this.
Right.
It was very slow.
A lot happened.
A whole lot happened during that time.
Did you have a sense of yourself through all of this?
I mean, you're having these incredible, I mean, a life review, and to go inside the mind of a psychotic person.
These are so mind-wrenching that it's hard to imagine you really paid attention to any detail, any tactile detail of how things were.
It sounds strange, but it was like it was, as lawyers put it, irrelevant and immaterial.
Just not important?
Yeah, it didn't really make that much of a difference.
And yet, the colors were different brilliances of light, and I related to them in that context, but it was like so.
Like so.
You would think, on the other hand, that especially in your twenties, to suddenly be seeing color when you had never perceived or understood color would be such, in itself, would be such an incredible Rush of sensations.
In a way, it was sort of like it was too much.
Yeah, I guess I can understand that.
When you'd had nothing, to have all of that would have been an onrush of a great deal.
Yeah, plus the emotional stuff.
Yeah, the emotional stuff would have overwhelmed everything else, it seems to me.
I mean, that would occupy your mind totally.
Yeah.
To descend into a person who'd been psychotic and suddenly understand that psychotic nature, boy, would be, I guess, the only way you could forgive.
But, I mean, you were given these incredible opportunities that most people aren't.
The majority of people don't have NDEs.
And are never given this depth of understanding.
Yes, and that's why I was commanded.
I feel that this, what I'm doing right now, is a part of answering that command.
But he told me, he said, tell people what has happened to you and tell them that I am, are the exact words that he used to me.
Yes.
Well, that's quite a burden in itself.
Dr. Longman, you heard all of this, to the point we've heard it now, how did you react?
Well, Art, I was absolutely astonished, you know.
There's so much to this near-death experience, it's absolutely incredible.
You know, of course, one of the most dramatic things being, here's Vicky, absolutely and completely blind from birth, you know, having, you know, incredible, the entire experience is just replete with visual stimuli, you know, and understanding and That's remarkable.
Yes, you're right.
It's remarkable.
Hold tight.
The whole thing is remarkable.
Dr. Jeffrey Long and Vicki Noratop.
Now it begins Now that you're gone
Needles and pins White lights you've done
Watching back now Till you return
Hiding back door And watching you burn
Now it begins All the leaves must fall
But don't you know that it hurts me so To say goodbye to you
We shouldn't have to go To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
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From coast to coast, and worldwide on the Internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
It is, and this is one of those things in life to listen to, and gosh, I don't know, folks, it's gonna sink in out there in many different ways.
My guest, ...is Vicki Norituk and of course Dr. Jeffrey Long, a radiation oncologist.
And you're hearing the story of Vicki's NDE.
She's blind from birth.
And just a little off topic, but not very far, NBC TV's Maria Shriver interviewed Las Vegas magician, animal tamer, Roy Horn on Wednesday.
It was Wednesday, September 15th.
And, uh, you know, of course, about Roy and what happened to him, right?
Well, maybe you've not heard, and I just recently heard, that Roy was having, uh, apparently, uh, was having a stroke.
Uh, was in the middle of a stroke when that cat picked him up.
That cat knew he was having a stroke.
And, of course, damaged him when it picked him up, but he, it knew he was in distress.
It's an incredible, whole thing is incredible.
Anyway, Art, it says, a procedure was performed.
In which doctors removed part of Horn's skull so it would allow the brain to swell.
The section of skull was sewn into his abdomen until it was replaced two weeks later.
On the operating table, Horn told Shriver he had a near-death experience.
He said, quote, I saw a bank of white light.
Then I saw all my beloved animals.
Horn said, for a moment, I stepped out of my body.
That's Roy Horn.
Once again, Dr. Jeffrey Long, who is a radiation oncologist, and Vicky Noratok,
who, blind since birth, had a near-death experience.
And following, immediately following a car accident, she was dead, really dead, for four minutes.
And she's telling us what happened in those four minutes.
And, by the way, Dr. Long, had you heard the story about Roy Horne?
Yes, I was aware of that.
Yes, near-death experiences happen.
I would suspect that the beloved animals he saw that were the tigers were probably the tigers that were deceased, that had died previously.
Oh, that's a very interesting point, yes.
Yeah, virtually everybody.
In fact, one of the things that's almost absolute in near-death experiences is that if you encounter people during the experience, these are people that died previously.
Yes.
And if you encounter animals, apparently, I mean, this is an awfully big point.
Vicki, you said you encountered...
Animals?
You sensed and saw animals?
Yeah.
Okay.
Well, one of the big questions in my life has been about animals and souls.
Whether animals have souls?
I love my cats.
My wife and I love our four cats.
And, Shirley, as I'm sitting here, they're as individual as we are with personalities and emotions.
All the things we don't think they have, they have.
And so I've always thought they had souls.
And if you saw them, Vicki, and these other people report seeing them, then, gee, it must be so.
I wanted to seek out my childhood pets, but I couldn't do it because I wasn't going to be permitted to stay.
But I knew they were there.
And my guide dog, of course, is there now.
And I had her for seven years.
I can't qualify for one now because I have repercussions from this accident and then 19 years later I was in another one on the very same day and I was injured worse in that one.
February 2nd of 1973 and then February 2nd of 1992.
Oh my God!
So, I don't have a guide dog now but I really cherish her and I know that she's in that area now too and I look forward to seeing her when I actually do return.
Doctor, you've chatted long hours with Vicki.
What should we be asking her that I haven't come upon?
Well, I think, you know, you don't think the animal one is a good one.
I might just touch briefly on that.
You know, certainly there's been a number of near-death experience accounts where people do encounter beloved pets.
Again, they're always deceased.
When you do encounter a beloved pet, uniformly, at least in the experiences I've heard, the pet is at the peak of health.
They very much know the person having the near-death experience is a joyous reunion.
It's really a homecoming, and the pets are a part of that.
I think the best near-death experience evidence is that, indeed, animals do have souls, and that there is an eternal relationship between the animals we love on the other side.
I think, Vicki, I would be just fascinated to hear you finish up just what all happened next during your near-death experience.
Well, that was touched on when Jesus was talking to me and giving me the life review and everything, and he gave me the scripture about how the lion shall lie down with the lamb, and all that, and how a child shall play with a snake, and all that kind of thing.
And that during that time, that's how it's going to be, because there won't be this enmity between man and any creatures, or any other creatures and one another, and that everybody will be in harmony there.
And yes, all of those animals were at the peak of health.
The birds, the flowers, everything.
Everything was beautiful and it was like the most incredible summer day that you could imagine, but much better.
Would you say that you were at the gates of heaven?
I mean you mentioned a wonderful gate that you weren't allowed to go through.
Was it your impression you were at the gates of heaven?
Yes.
I had arrived at paradise and I was told I couldn't go any further because this was not the time I was supposed to be there.
And he told me that I needed to come back and tell people what had happened to me and to ask him for help.
During difficult times, when I had trouble forgiving, to give it to Him, and have Him help me to forgive things.
All of this makes sense to me, but, you know, it's so classic in the way, I don't know, I guess we all imagine it, you know, a gate in heaven, and life reviews, and the presence of Jesus, and wow!
It's just as classic as it can get.
Yeah, this is, uh, the gate is What's referred to as a boundary in near-death experiences, that can be a stream passing a trail.
It can be a fence.
Actually, gates are less frequent boundaries.
But very often in near-death experiences, people encounter things that they know they can't pass through.
And the sense is that if they pass through this, and sometimes they're told this during the experience, you can't come back.
Right.
That's really the boundary.
That's the point of no return, if you will.
How did it finish for you?
I mean, I don't know what happened physically, but I assume that sort of coincided with the end of your NDE, or it probably did, right?
You probably came rushing back at some point.
Well yes, after the life review and when he said, watch this, and I felt everything that
everyone else felt as well as what I had felt and had the detailed review of everything
that had happened to me from birth up until 22 years of age, then I was sent back and
it was like reversing the way that I had come in this tube.
I was sucked back into it and sent back here.
And was there anything associated?
I mean, you had motion, you were in a tunnel when you went.
What about coming back?
Was there a similar trip, or what?
Yes, it was like rushing wind.
Huh.
Like rushing wind.
Only the other way.
Right.
And did you then awaken, in a sense, in your own body, or what is the next thing you remember?
I felt sick.
And heavy, and then I was in my body again, but as the spinning and rushing wind ceased, there was a feeling of disequilibrium, and then I was heavy and in my body again, and very pain-ridden.
Yep, all of that makes sense.
Were you happy or sad to be back?
Both.
Do you retain Good memories now of the sights that you had, the things that you saw during that time.
Do you have a sharp memory of them or is it fading now?
It's just as clear as it was and it's blessed.
It's a sacred thing that I go to often when I need comforting or just to remember.
Alright then, since you've been blind from birth, if you did not dream prior to your accident and prior to all of this, do you now that you have had visual experience, have you begun to now dream?
Visually?
Yes.
No.
That was taken away from me when I was sent back.
Really?
So the memories are not enough to... I would think if you could Remember it, that it would be imprinted to the point where dreams would begin.
Doctor?
You know, there's very few folks that are blind from birth that have been reported, but that's a good question.
I think a lot of what Vicki is describing as vision, you know, certainly involves seeing things and seeing objects, recognizing them, but during near-death experiences, and I've actually studied the vision that people have during near-death experiences, I don't think it's exactly the type of vision that we have here on Earth.
It's more of a sense of a knowing or an understanding that seems to be a part of the visual mechanism that we don't really have on Earth.
And, Vicki, you might explain a little more about that.
Oh, yes.
That hits it right on the head, as the expression goes.
That's exactly what it feels like.
It's more intuitive.
And it's like it becomes a part of you.
It's not so physical.
Okay.
It's more intense and it's more all around kind of pervasive.
Were you able to see like 360 degrees all around you?
I couldn't even tell you that.
All I know is that it was extremely intense and like it was more in my being than something I looked at.
Well, I'm just trying to translate that into whether it would be enough visualization as we, Doctor, understand visualization.
You know, she described buildings, and then people, and animals, and these are a lot of visual sensations.
But we ask her, does she dream now?
No, she doesn't.
It was taken away from me when I came back.
Yeah, you know, I think, again, what people have when they're having near-death experiences Is, you know, of course, these are at times of when the heart stops, when people are stopped breathing, there's really no, you know, 10 seconds after a cardiac arrest, there's no brain flow to the brain and the brain function ceases, as measured by electroencephalograms.
So, I think that what people are having during near-death experiences, I think it's described visually because I think that, and there is clearly visual components to that, It's probably something above and beyond vision.
In other words, it's sort of like the communication they have.
It's described as talking, but it really isn't, Vicki.
I mean, it's more of an understanding.
It's sharing.
It's not physical talking like the way we're talking now.
It's intuitive.
It's the only word I can think of to describe it.
And my best guess is the vision is the same way.
It's sort of, you see things, but in addition to just simply seeing objects, you're not just as passionately seeing an object and you recognize it there, you have an
understanding or sort of a more in-depth awareness or sense of the meaning of that whatever
you're seeing.
And it's like the foreignness of the physicalness, or the foreignness of the physicality of it
remained to some degree, but yet I knew what things were and I briefly had the knowledge
of, as I said, physics, astronomy, color, but I can't tell you what it was because it
was something that was taken when I returned.
I remember having the knowledge, but I don't remember it.
And that's not unusual, Vicki.
The great, great majority of near-death experiencers that encounter overwhelming knowledge or understanding are basically told that they can't have it when they come back.
In fact, one near-death experiencer Put it this way, they said it's like an ocean of knowledge and your brain is like a teacup.
Yeah.
Very well put.
You can't retain all that because it is so enormous and the magnitude of that knowledge is too great.
We're just not physically, with the brain we have, able to remember it or retain it.
But I do remember having it.
Yes.
And so you remember that as sort of a general great joy?
Yes.
Yes.
Well, is there anything else, Vicki, that we should know from your experience, either how it's affected you since, or it still does now?
It certainly seems awfully clear in your mind.
Oh, yes.
And another thing that's happened is that I have gotten impressions about people when they are in distress or have needed something that I was to make contact with them, and every single time it's been a major, major thing.
Yeah, that sounds like some of the after effects that near-death experiencers have, sort of a heightened intuitive sense.
Alright, well listen, Vicki, I'm going to thank you and ask the doctor about a million questions, but thank you so much for coming on tonight and telling us this story.
It's amazing.
You are very welcome.
Take care.
Thank you.
You bet.
Alright, so that's Vicki Noratok.
Now again, Doctor, what she had is so classic Christian.
It screamed a million questions come to me.
Sure.
And so, since your organization, I don't know, looks at all of this worldwide, you must be able to answer to some degree what people of other faiths and beliefs report.
Yes, I sure can.
On our website, we actually have near-death experiences posted in over 20 different foreign languages.
So we are actually interacting with people, and very heavily, all around the world.
Good.
And we're interacting with people of both Western and non-Western civilizations, and we're getting people to share the near-death experiences and related experiences that they've had from all around the world.
So it's interesting, you know, the question is, what happens to people that are in a non-Western civilization?
And we actually have a portion of our website in Arabic.
Well, hit me with some answers.
In other words, I want to know what people of other faiths and religions experience when they have an experience like Vicky's.
Do they report meeting entities they would describe as their own gods, those they worship?
There's a lot of similarities and there's some differences.
The similarities are more striking than differences in near-death experiences around the world.
The out-of-body experience where they see themselves, absolutely very universal.
Going through a tunnel, or as Vicky described it, a tube that's analogous to a tunnel.
Universal.
Yeah, very common.
There's less, some cultures, particularly the Japanese, are a little bit, have a little less probability
of going through a tunnel than others, but certainly there's a very distinct percentage
of the near-death experiences that have that.
Light, you know, different cultures may have a somewhat different probabilities
of encountering the light, but that's certainly a very important part of it.
The feelings of peace, love, and the intensity of those feelings,
surpassing anything on Earth is also very, very common.
deceased relatives again very very uh... a comment on it But Vicki said she met Jesus.
She came into the presence of Jesus.
Do others report coming into the presence of Buddha, or into a presence of a god?
Right.
I had a long discussion about that with a near-death experience researcher in Taiwan, and he studied a very large number of near-death experiences, probably more than any other non-Western MDE that I'm aware of, or have interacted directly with someone with first-hand knowledge.
And I asked him about that directly, because Jesus is seen in about 5-10% of near-death experiences.
Not at all unusual in the experiences I have.
What this physician in Taiwan who studies this said, was that yes, it's fairly common that people encounter religious figures there, but their religious figures, and I asked directly, is it Buddha?
And they go, well no, it's some of the other, more common than that, are the minor religious figures in the Buddhist belief system that they have there.
And again, fairly common there, but they're going to be religious figures that the near-death experiencer is going to be comfortable with.
And, you know, we're going to, it's going to be, if these experiences are to be a product of an interaction between the near-death experiencer and a higher power, a loving higher power, it would make sense if they're going to have an experience that they're going to be familiar with, be able to relate to.
It wouldn't, you know, the Buddhist encountering Jesus, I haven't heard that yet.
Nor have I. I rarely have encountered Christians encountering Buddha, although maybe like one experience.
What about atheists?
Atheists have about an equal probability.
What's really interesting, even one of my more interesting near-death experiences, are the occasional atheists that we get who encounter Jesus.
And one atheist in a near-death experience, I remember vividly, argued with Jesus and said, I don't believe in you.
And Jesus communicated that he didn't believe that.
Is that a hallmark moment?
But the Jesus, and again we're talking about this telepathic or non-physical communication, communicated back a sense to the effect of, I know but I believe in you, and it's okay.
And so atheists, it's very very hard for atheists to remain atheists after they've had a near-death experience like this.
But Jesus then allegedly says back, but I don't, but it's okay?
Words to that, concepts to that effect.
I mean, it's basically, when people encounter Jesus in near-death experiences, first of all, I don't know that I've ever encountered a near-death experience where this entity states they are Jesus.
That's just simply not reported.
What happens is people say, this is a knowing or an understanding like so much else they encounter.
Far along in their near-death experience.
They know.
Alright, doctor.
Hold on.
This is fascinating.
Dr. Jeffrey Long is my guest.
We're talking about NDEs.
that would be near-death experience around the world.
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How you doing, everybody?
Good morning.
Dr. Jeffrey Long is my guest.
Vicki Noratop was here.
And described a very, very detailed, amazing NDE that she had.
Lined from birth.
She saw the whole thing.
As well as here and other tactile senses.
We'll get back to Dr. Long and guess what?
I've got another one of his patients on the phone.
We'll be right back.
Once again, Dr. Jeffrey Long, who is, by the way, a radiation oncologist and has been compiling data on NDEs, near-death experiences, for how long, doctor?
About six years, Art.
Now we've got about 700 at this point.
Of those 700, how many have religious content as such to them, and how many are devoid of it?
Well, it depends on what you call religious content.
Well, I would call Vicki's interview religious content.
Yeah, of course her main thing was religious content, was encountering Jesus.
Encountering mainly Jesus, but other major spiritual leaders.
About 5-10% of the experiences, so not unusual at all.
And the others?
The others, they may have a lot of the other elements of near-death experiences, but they don't encounter known religious leaders.
Are they devoid completely of it?
Well, of course.
Occasionally we see the hellish near-death experience, which is very opposite in terms of the feelings and the sights and the sort of anti-love sensation that classic near-death experiences have.
That's sort of the polar opposite of these kind of things, but others just have the tunnel or a bright light and encounter deceased relatives.
Well, that's still kind of religion, it's just the opposite, but it's still confirmation of the religious aspect of it.
Yeah, I think it is.
I mean, it certainly has convinced me there's something going on.
I mean, for a near-death experience is to essentially always encounter people, only people that are deceased, on the other side, essentially never living people, like you would with a dream or a hallucination.
For that to always happen and for them to universally be the prime of their health, happy, delightful.
I mean, it's just part of the chain of evidence that is absolutely convinced me that near-death experiences are for real.
All right, I think I may have a young lady who claims she's going to take out your last name.
Oh, I didn't know I was already on the air.
Oh, yeah, when I say you're on the air, that has meaning.
So your name is Diane.
Let's just go with that, all right?
Let's start with Diane.
Okay, Diane.
Do you recognize her, Doctor?
Doctor, this is Diane that died on Good Friday, April the 4th, 1958.
Larry's mom.
They gave you and your wife all of the writings on the NDE.
Okay.
And the one that had the overdose of radiation.
Right.
They revived it.
Wow.
Okay, that tickles my memory.
Welcome aboard, Diane.
It's been a while back.
But I still go up to the site and read everything that's new because it's very exciting.
Well, what happened to you again, please?
On April the 4th, Good Friday of 1958, well, carrying my fourth child, my fourth son, and I was fully, full gestation, full term.
I thought my water broke and I hemorrhaged.
Yes.
In my house, do you remember me writing this to you?
Uh-huh.
I called my husband, my doctor, and my mother, and went in and laid down on the bed and was hemorrhaging through the bed.
Uh-huh.
And then when my husband got there, he put me in the back seat of the car, hoping he could get me from Glendale to Burbank to the hospital.
Right.
And I died on the back seat of the car.
That's when I multilocated.
Multilocated?
Remember when, yeah, I wrote Dr. Long.
Right, well we all haven't heard this before, so you tell me.
Multi-located?
I multi-located.
I was very cold at first before I died.
I was very cold, very frightened, and in a lot of pain.
And then suddenly I just stepped out in the back seat of the car.
And I was in my car, in the car with my husband, and could read every thought, all the frantic thoughts that he had in his mind.
But at the same time, I was with my mother as she was driving from the San Fernando Valley to Glendale to my son.
And I was also with my dad at NBC Studios.
And I was with my brother at Notre Dame High School.
And I was with my sister down at the L.A.
Stock Exchange.
That's a lot of co-location.
You bet.
And I could hear and see everything that they were doing in their minds, what they were thinking.
I was with my doctor as he was coming to the hospital.
But I was also looking down at the Earth from space, and I could see the Earth, and that it wasn't a round globe like we bought in the stores.
We hadn't gone to space yet.
And I was going through the universe at the same time, and it was very familiar to me.
I knew I was going home.
And then I went to Heaven, and unlike anybody else, I think Dr. Long will remember, I got a walkabout.
And it was partly religious and partly technology.
But I went to many cities, including what I call the City of Technology, which was a city that was all white and it had beautiful green grass and it had no more than three-story high buildings.
It was very familiar to me.
I knew it.
That sounds a great deal like a good friend of mine who saw Crystal City.
Oh, I saw the Crystal City.
I couldn't go into it, though.
Well, okay, so there you are.
Doctor, how common is what she just said?
It's pretty unusual, but it does happen.
Diane, did you ever... No, she's gone.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
As I recall, she did confirm with the people that she multi-located with.
There's some occasional times when Indie ears describe multi-location, that is, being aware of where people are at, especially what they're thinking and basically visualizing them, even considerable geographic distances away.
Are you going to tell me that she confirmed later with these people?
You know, my impression was that she did, but I can't confirm that because, again, I've got six or seven hundred of these accounts floating around.
I recall she shared hers a long time ago.
I'm almost certain she did, but I can't vouch for that with a certainty.
I can tell you other people that multi-locate, and actually a more common time that multi-location occurs is people code in an emergency room or an operating room and they become aware of their family members or other beloved people that are like in the hospital waiting room or in other areas of the hospital.
Yes.
In other times where multi-location like that's been reported, a number of these people do ask them directly.
Were you here?
Were you doing this at this time?
And every one of the experiences that I'm aware of has been confirmed.
Doctor, how much of this adds up to really hardcore proof?
I mean, stuff you can lay down and say, all right, look, she read me a serial number.
Look, she related something somebody said in the operating room that absolutely, positively could not have been heard or seen.
I think the detail of which they bring back when they talk to these folks, they're exactly here.
You know, they may be leaning against a wall.
They may have their hands over their head.
They may be crying, even though they're not used to seeing them cry.
But the depth of the detail that they bring back, which is not just like a snapshot of a picture, but sort of a movie, if you will, I think that the detail like that is highly evidential.
And again, obviously, there's absolutely no medical explanation for that at all.
The other advantage I have in reviewing about six or seven hundred of these near-death experiences, a few percent that have these multi-location things, is that I'm very, very... I'm a scientist, a medical scientist also.
I look very, very hard for any evidence of it not adding up.
Is there something that they see that's not plausible or doesn't make sense?
I've looked very hard over the last six years for experiences where what they saw wasn't real.
And did anybody share that at any time?
And the answer is no.
Anytime that they've confirmed the details that they saw geographically outside of the emergency room, operating room, it really happened just exactly as they saw or heard it.
Well, this must touch many emergency room workers.
It must touch not just you, but many physicians, those who work with the dying and right on the edge, especially in emergency rooms.
They must run into this all the time then.
You know, Art, that's really interesting, since near-death experiences become much more known when they're resuscitating people.
Doctors that are astute to this, and most of the people working with critical care do run into this periodically, they're actually much more polite.
They won't say anything disparaging about whoever they're trying to resuscitate, because if you've ever been a doctor and made any disparaging remarks and had the
patient come back and confront you with that and that has happened.
That's embarrassing for the doctor.
So just a little bit more sensitivity, working with people that are being resuscitated or
dying actively and a little more compassion I think has been the result of these kind
of accounts.
Well, let's say, take the average emergency room doctor who's been working there on the
front lines for five or six or seven years.
I understand they don't last real long working in those environments, period.
That takes the young and the brave, I guess.
But for those that have been working that period of time, would there ever be an instance where they would say, oh, Boulder Dash, you know, this is such baloney, or would they all be convinced?
Well, first of all, they almost certainly, if they've been working that long, are going to encounter people that have near-death experiences.
Art, you said earlier you worked as an emergency medical technician a while?
Surgical tech, yes.
The thing of it is, usually people that have had these profound near-death experiences, when they come back, they're critically ill, they often are intubated, that means they have a tube down their throat and their trachea and they're on a ventilator.
And they really can't share about their experience initially.
Furthermore, they're usually not inclined to immediately come out of these experiences and immediately tell the doctor or nurse that's nearby, oh gosh, guess what happened.
I'm sure that's right.
Or in other cases, you would think it would just blur it out.
Yeah, but most of them aren't going to share that immediately because, I mean, they just basically recovered from being dead.
And, you know, they may be, you know, they're so overwhelmed with the experience that they just had, I mean, they can hardly even verbalize it.
You know, when they're that critically ill and have just recovered from having their heart stopped, their probability of them sharing is fairly low.
Very few near-death experiencers I've seen actually started talking about it or sharing it immediately.
And don't forget, a lot of these people are so sick or ill, frankly, that they really can't talk immediately after their experience.
Ultimately, whenever we hear about it, Doctor, how often, how frequently does a full-life experience, you know, the movie of your life unrolling before you, like, here it is, baby, your life, This is your life.
That's a so-called life review.
Vicki had a very detailed life review where she saw everything from the moment of her birth to the time of accident, and then further sensed what everybody else was sensing and feeling that interacted with her.
Those are among the most detailed of life reviews.
Those are relatively uncommon, probably in the 10 or 20 percent range.
Most life reviews that I've seen involve just seeing images of your life.
There can be often Moving at a very, very rapid pace, and that's a more typical life review, but it's often the highlights of the life that you lived.
Highlights would be good.
Yeah, highlights are good.
And understand, this is the incredible thing, Vicki assimilated or understood her entire life during a time when she was in cardiac arrest for exactly four minutes.
Yes.
The speed with which people think during these near-death experiences is absolutely astounding.
Their ability to process information relative to earthly time is just mind-boggling.
And again, that's one of the other components of the evidentiality of near-death experiences.
I mean, you just can't do that on Earth.
I'm trying so hard to put it all together in my mind, and that's why I reached out To other parts of the world to try and understand, this phenomena is different, but it's the same.
You know, I'm glad we brought that up again.
Absolutely it is.
That's one of the incredible things we've learned since we have on our website near-death experiences in over 20 languages, and we encourage people all over the world to share.
We've actually developed the form that people share their near-death experience on in, you know, 20 different languages, foreign languages.
We're actually studying this and understanding this at a very high level.
Dr. Long, having put all these together, all these stories, how much do we actually understand about what we call the other side?
I think what we don't know far exceeds what we do know.
You really, as best I can tell with near-death experiencers, to just really cut it to the quick, these are people that are earthly beings that are in, even if their thinking is greatly accelerated and their processing enormously speeded up, They're basically finite beings encountering something infinite.
So to come back, it's like the knowledge Vicki was showing, the enormous body of knowledge and understanding, and it's the analogy I used.
It's like trying to put an ocean of knowledge into the teacup that our brains are in.
It just won't fit.
Well, she had hers again in 1973, which was prior to Raymond Moody's, Dr. Moody's ...beginning to write about all this.
These days, modern days, if somebody has one, people would say, well, you know, so many in the American public have heard about NDEs that it is suggested to them that this is what should happen, and so it's what happens.
Okay, these are called copycat experiences, because you've heard about near-death experience, therefore that affects what they describe in their experience in some way.
Glad you brought that up, Art.
I actually did a study and have actually published it in the Journal of Near-Death Studies.
What I did is this study is again using the data from our web form on near-death experiences.
I studied a population of, I think we had about 60 people that had their near-death experiences before 1975.
This is before Raymond Moody wrote about near-death experience.
Nobody knew about near-death experience before 1975.
And I compared the experience elements that they had during their near-death experience with a population of well over 200 people that had near-death experiences after 1975.
In other words, They would have had some potential to be aware that near-death experiences is a described entity and there's something about what it is.
Right.
Well, what this published research study I did indicated that there was absolutely zero statistical significant difference in the experience elements, whether you had your NDE prior to 1975 or after it.
There seems to be absolutely, and these are very large numbers of near-death experiences studied.
Pretty conclusive that, you know, whether you knew you had your NDE at a time and you potentially could know about it or not made absolutely no difference in the experience that you have.
Okay, if we go back two years prior to Dr. Moody, there's plenty of years of human awareness and writings and recordings of human activities and happenings that go, well, as far back as man can write.
What evidence is there that a hundred, two hundred years ago, three hundred years ago, People experienced and dared to write about this?
Sure.
About several thousand years ago.
Oh?
The oldest surviving explicit report of a near-death experience in Western literature was actually written by Plato, and Plato wrote his legendary book called The Republic.
And in Plato's book The Republic, he discusses the story of Ur, I don't know if I'm pronouncing it right, but it's spelled E-R.
uh... this is an amazing account is a soldier who went out to do battle and
was killed and as part of the greek culture what they did with their that deceased if they would build
a funeral pyre basically place them on top of a pile of logs and and they
would be burned yes uh... air the soldier who died was placed on top of the
funeral pyre but all of a sudden
uh... resuscitated spontaneously came back to life mobile and immediately got
up and uh... immediately started talking about a remarkable near-death experience
uh... containing a lot of the classic element that we talk about today
uh... clearly and you know i a m civilization far removed from us and yet
again as far back as play-doh your death experiences have been happening
while he was being burned No, no, I'm sorry.
This happened before he started being burned.
He was placed on the funeral pyre.
We were having the funeral ceremony around that time.
Before they lit the logs, thank goodness, he came back.
Well, thank goodness.
And started talking about what his experience was, and Plato documented it in some detail.
And Plato's conclusions?
Plato's conclusions, he felt that that was just basically that.
It was a departure of the soul.
flight of the soul to a vision of a pure celestial being, and Plato, I think, valued this because it had a lot of
consistency with what the Greeks believed at this point in time.
So Plato was very impressed with this, and used it to sort of reinforce the belief system they had back at that time.
But then all that time went by before Dr. Moody suddenly, when the light bulb went on, and he began writing about
this and collecting the stories.
Yeah, and that's interesting. Even though these things, and actually in medieval times there were quite a few near-death
experiences documented too, but nobody did what Raymond Moody did.
He, instead of having just rare, you know, isolated near-death experience reports where you would hear it and you'd go, well, I don't know what that means, Dr. Moody's contribution was to find over 60 of these accounts.
And at that point in time, when he looked at a fairly large group of them, he was able to say, hey look, there's a pattern.
People have the out-of-body experiences.
They go through the tunnel, they see a light, they have these incredible feelings of peace and love, see deceased relatives, encounter a boundary, and, you know, involved in a decision to return.
So that was... Oh, that's something I want to talk about, is decisions.
In other words, a lot of NDEers are given the opportunity to make decisions about whether they stay.
Or whether they go back.
Decisions, decisions.
Life and apparently death are full of them.
I'm Art Bell.
I was a highwayman along the coach roads I did ride.
I was a soldier with a gun and a pistol by my side.
Many a young maid lost her bobbles to my trade.
Many a soldier shed his life blood on my blade.
The bastards hung me in the spring of twenty-five.
But I am still alive.
I was a sailor.
I was born upon the tide.
With the sea I did abide.
I sailed to school around the Horn of Mexico.
I went aloft to furl the mainsail in a blow.
And when the yards broke off, they said that I got killed.
But I'm living still.
I was a dam builder, across the river deep and wide.
Where steel and water didn't collide.
A place called Boulder on the wild Colorado.
I slipped and fell into the wet concrete below.
They buried me in that grey tomb that knows no sound.
But I'm still around.
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From coast to coast, and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
God, I love this song.
It's all about reincarnation, and I suppose we'll ask about reincarnation.
Why not?
Dr. Jeffrey Long is my guest.
we're talking about NDE's.
A radiation kinda guy, actually an oncologist.
They provide the radiation for those who have cancer, administer it expertly.
Dr. Jeffrey Long is that?
And I see here he's got a lot of websites, but no book.
You haven't written a book yet, huh?
No, you know, actually, Art, that's really interesting.
I have nothing for sale.
I haven't published anything that would be saleable.
I don't even solicit donations.
Actually, Vicki doesn't either.
We just do this because we believe in it, and we think we have an important message.
That's important.
All right.
Choices.
You know, I was joking a little while ago, life is nothing but one big long series of choices and decisions that we've got to make.
But apparently death is, too.
Now, how many, by percent, or however you can impart to me, how many are given the opportunity to either go through the gate And go to the other side, or come back to Earth.
How many get a choice?
You know, in the fairly detailed near-death experiences, that's not unusual at all.
You're getting around, you know, 40% plus are actually involved in a decision.
Very often, they reach a point during the experience, you know, there may be a stream going across a path, they're walking along a gate, can be described as something.
But once they reach this point of no return, there's a decision made.
Essentially always, it's not a decision they make in isolation, but there's other beings or entities with them and they dialogue about the decision to go back to Earth.
What's interesting is that most people have a choice.
Only a minority basically go back to Earth without seeming to have an interaction or discussion or dialogue about it.
But most of the people, and this is very striking in near-death experiences, the majority don't want to go back or understand these people are Having their experience in heavenly realms, their feeling and knowing, love and peace and compassion, things are perfect, there's no pain, they're literally in heaven.
And yet, why on earth would these people leave heaven and choose to return to earth?
Loved ones?
That's basically it.
The number one reason that they give are because they have relationships on earth that are important, and it's important for them to go back.
Most often that involves children.
It could be parents, other family members, other things, but relationships on earth seem to be one of the most important reasons people choose to leave heaven and go to earth, and certainly number two and right up there are the lessons that they have to learn, and the lessons predominantly revolve around lessons about love that they can only uniquely learn on earth.
Okay.
Lessons.
That really brings up exactly where I wanted to go.
Thank you.
And that's reincarnation.
I played that song that I love by the Highwaymen, and it's clearly about reincarnation.
And reincarnation is a belief system that, man, a lot of people have.
And I wonder if there's anything in NDEs or in the research that would suggest that reincarnation is part of the cosmic scheme.
Well, you know, I think the answer to that is in the affirmative, Art.
Among the general population, about 20% of people believe in reincarnation.
Among people who have had a near-death experience, it's about 60%.
Really?
If you go to the International Association for Near-Death Studies Board of Directors, it's close to 100%.
Really?
Yeah, yeah.
So, I think there is some... The evidence is not as strong as it is with other elements of near-death experience, but some of the life reviews, and we've talked about that tonight, a few of these people, when they have life reviews, Actually, go back to review lives that they had prior to their current earthly life.
That's very, very unusual, but I've had people describe even a series of lives.
They may be describing that they felt had the same sense of personality they were themselves, and yet they were in different cultures, different times.
They may be male, they may be female, and yet they always knew it was themselves.
Isn't that something?
Yeah, absolutely astounding.
Very, very few numbers, but absolutely remarkable evidence for reincarnation.
Some other evidence is that... Well, that's a big wow!
I mean, that does not fit in with the contemporary Christian view of the cosmos.
No, this is just what we hear from near-death experiencers, and this is the belief that they come to have after their experience.
Absolutely remarkable.
You know, how they could relive in detail.
And again, the incredible thing, Art, is they're having these incredibly vivid, clear understandings of prior lives at a time they're not having any blood flow to their brain.
So, I mean, the whole thing is just astonishing.
Okay, I'm going to try and fit someone in.
I'm sorry I haven't been better about this.
First time caller on the line.
You can't give your last name, dear, so turn your radio off.
That's number one.
And I'm going to tell the audience your name is Sharon, and not your last name.
Okay, what's up, Sharon?
I was calling because of the near-death experience I had in 1974.
Okay.
And I had given birth and five days after the delivery date I hemorrhaged and had to go back to surgery for emergency surgery.
Right.
And in the recovery room I was out of my body up in the corner.
Watching them work on my body.
Wow.
And I, um, it was the most peaceful feeling that I had.
I had the white light, the tunnel.
I was with my mother that had died in 1968 and she had died of MS and when she left this plane, she was, you know, her body was not, whole and well, but at that time she was whole and well and
like in her prime.
And then another woman was with her and at that time of my experience I thought that it was my
grandmother, my great-grandmother, but I was given the choice whether to stay or go back.
And apparently you decided to come back to us.
I did.
But my mother had said to me, you can come with us or go back.
Why did you decide to come back?
I said I want to be with my baby.
Yes.
Well, there you are, Doctor.
Did you report this to anybody like Dr. Long or anybody else?
I have never ever told anyone until five years after that experience did I even tell my family.
Yeah, that's hard to share.
Sharon, you might try to find a picture of your great-grandmother who you believe you saw.
Virtually everyone that believes they've seen a deceased relative that they've never even seen before, if they can find pictures, almost invariably it's the individual you saw and knew as your great-grandmother.
Well, what was really interesting is the five years passed before I told anyone.
I had thought about it, but I I thought people would think I was crazy if I ever said anything like that.
Boy, I wonder how many of the Sharons are out there.
Maybe it's many, many, many.
In that case, that would certainly change a lot of what... Doctor, how many Sharons do you think are out there who haven't talked about it in five years, or maybe never?
I think the great majority of near-death experiencers find that their experiences so unlike earthly events and
they may you know falteringly try to share it with other people
who are open to it will tell them that it's a dream tell them that it
uh... they were hallucinating and And Sharon, you know darn good and well it wasn't a dream.
You were probably more alert and lucid at that experience at any time in your life, right?
Doctor, I had an out-of-body experience.
Oh, yes.
That's all I've had, though.
Yet, when I tried to explain that, and I have a number of times to my audience and to others, there are not words for it.
There are not words for it, other than the best I can do, but that still doesn't describe it.
And there just aren't words for it, that's all.
And I guess that's what we're running into here with all of these folks.
Yeah, and that's very typical.
A very high percentage of people that have near-death experiences, because their thought is so speeded up and things are so non-ordinary, an awful lot of near-death experiencers literally can't put it in words.
You know, you certainly can have some empathy with that as much as about anybody for your own body experience.
Yes.
And that's why I really have a lot of respect for the courage for people that come out and do their very, very best to describe something that's almost not describable in words, you know, in words as best they can.
It's hard to do.
Um, do you think the average person could review all your materials, hopscotching around your websites, we've got them linked up there, and come away with a firm conclusion and belief that it's not over when it's over?
Oh, I don't know how you could have any other belief.
The entire website, and by the way, we don't pull punches on that website.
In fact, if anything, we have a bias to put experiences that are not typical against what the prevailing belief is about near-death experience.
But even with that slight bias, to give the full picture of near-death experiences, the near-death experience accounts and what we have and what others have shared, Are really what they seem, an overwhelming message of hope, that we really don't die, that there is an afterlife, and the afterlife is wonderful.
I think that's a manifest conclusion.
And certainly that's what near-death experiencers come away believing.
But even if you haven't had that, if you can just share with the near-death experiencers by hearing, like listening to your radio show, and hearing near-death experiencers share, reading about it, you'll come to understand what they're trying to share.
And that is, we don't really die, Art.
Your cats aren't really going to die.
Our pets aren't going to die.
Our loved ones aren't really going to die.
We're all going to be in the same place, and it's going to be paradise.
Boy, I want to believe that.
I sure do want to believe it, and I lean toward believing it.
That final push of evidence, I guess, that I need.
I think the final push might come from the fact that you look carefully at what the skeptics have said, who said, no, no, it isn't real, thought out very carefully why they think it's not real, and published it.
That's instructive in itself.
For the people that think that near-death experience is not for real, not for exactly what Vicki's sharing it is, the first thing that jumps out is that skeptics have over 20 different alternative explanations for near-death experience.
The reason for that is simple.
There's no one or several.
Alternative explanations to near-death experience that make sense, even to the skeptics.
And then you go looking, like we did with the tunnel vision, now they try to explain it by hypoxia, lack of oxygen to the brain.
I mean, the arguments not only don't hold water, but they're silly.
In fact, you don't need an M.D.
or a Ph.D.
to figure this out.
My nine-year-old son was hearing a nearly-blind near-death experiencer share their experience up in Seattle several years ago, and at the end of that he said, This can't be brain chemistry.
You don't need advanced degrees.
You just simply need to understand that it's absolutely manifestly impossible.
The skeptics just look silly trying to come up with an alternative explanation for something that's obvious and manifest reality.
There are many who are fast-blasting me, you know, the message on the computer here that they've had NDEs without having had To be coded or, you know, getting that close to physical or physically dying.
They've had what has been described here tonight.
How many people without physical death report having an experience like this?
Well, that's important, Art, because that understanding that near-death experience is part of a spectrum of these type of experiences led me to develop my after-death communication and out-of-body experience website.
So there's no question that people can have these elements even when they haven't actually coded.
The experiences tend to be a little bit more varied.
They're not as consistent as far as the elements of near-death experiences, but they're darn sure for real.
There's no question about that.
As you know with your own out-of-body experience, we are clearly more than our physical bodies would suggest.
We have some part of us that's much, much more than we physically see and interact with every day.
You mentioned communication.
Communication.
Well, I do shows with people who do electronic voice phenomena and other things that are very unnerving and not easily, cannot easily be explained.
And I've been absolutely intrigued with that.
How much have you looked at?
Yeah, very little.
I sure don't know a whole... My plate is so full with my very busy full-time practice in the, you know, near-death experience, after-death communication, out-of-body experience thing.
I really wouldn't be able to comment much on some of these other phenomena.
I've heard of them, of course, and I think they're very important and significant.
I'd love to have more time to learn about them, but gosh art, I just don't.
Right, okay.
What about follow-ups to NDE patients?
Five years, eight years, ten years down from their experience, what do you find?
Yes, there was actually a very large study out of the Netherlands in which they talked to people that had coded Cardiac arrest, specifically.
Right.
They identified a population of 63 people that had near-death experiences.
They took their near-death experience accounts several weeks after it occurred, and then they asked them again about a year later, and then they asked them again about their experience seven years later.
Yes.
The conclusion of this study was that their experiences, right down to the detail, were absolutely the same, even seven years after their occurrence.
Absolutely no Are you at all familiar, in real life, not the movies, but in real life, with anybody anywhere who has become so intrigued with Near Death that they have attempted essentially what occurred in Flatliners?
I run into this periodically with people that have an interest basically in suicide because they think the afterlife is wonderful and it beats the heck out of the misery they're experiencing.
No, no, no, not that so much, but really flatliners where it would certainly be possible, wouldn't it, to stop somebody's heart and then to bring them back again a minute later, a minute and a half later?
I'm aware.
I have interacted with some people that have expressed some interest in this.
First of all, it would be highly unethical.
Second of all, because of its unethical nature, it would never be published or respected in any scientific journal.
I'm sure not, but just whisper it in my ear here.
It's dangerous.
No, I'm not aware of anybody that has actually tried that and brings back, if you will, a story from the front.
But you've heard I've heard of people interested in doing it.
I have not heard of anybody that actually did that.
came back to report on it i would certainly strongly strongly condemned
that you know i don't do this at home in the years are very clear that you don't want and that
would be a form of of getting close to committing suicide and that is even
among near-death experience is with him to bring back absolutely not what we're
supposed to be doing no no no i'm sure not but it was an irresistible
question i i i think i mean if there's such a fascination with this i guess i
could understand as depicted in that movie how a group of perhaps young people
who become so interested that they might go to that length and but as you
point out it probably wouldn't be printed with wouldn't be a story about
it would never see the light of day
Well, they could certainly share it with my website.
You know, I worry that some people might have done something as inappropriate as that, and quite frankly, the fact that I and no near-death experience researcher has ever heard of such an account suggests they either had no experience or they died.
Because I'm not aware of anybody that's... Either way, you don't get an account.
Yeah, either way, it doesn't work.
And given the fact that I haven't heard of that from... You know, I'm heavily networked, of course, in the ND community.
Of course.
I just don't think it seems to be working.
Oh, I thought I'd bring up the unspeakable.
That's what I mean.
Listen, we're out of time.
We've got to go.
What a program this has been, and what a pleasure it has been having you here.
Your website, the one you recommend?
www.nder.org.
f dot org that's w w w dot and as a nancy d is a dog e are
as in radio efforts in frank dot orgy right that you got it all right my friend thank you for being
here are amazing show tonight yes sir
uh... take care and here's here's crystal and always the right words to get
us out of here have a great week everybody
the high desert goodnight and uh... and
she's done has a good
and i'm
This magical journey will take us on a ride.
Filled with a longing, searching for the truth.
Will we make it till tomorrow?
Will the sun shine on us?
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