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June 13, 2004 - Art Bell

02:52:25

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - David Sereda - Mexican UFOs

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	Music playing.
	From the high desert of the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon, as the
	case may be.
	Actually, here where I am, the darkness has descended.
	The heat remains about 81 degrees right down the high desert.
	And this is Coast to Coast AM, covering 25 time zones.
	The entire globe.
	Something to think about.
	And so is the photograph I've got for you tonight on my webcam.
	Not all will be interested in this, but it is a bit of history, and it comes from a fellow named Mike Sullivan, who's a ham, K7HQ, and what a wonderful picture he's sent.
	He says, hi, I thought you might be interested in a picture attached, which I have up there, of my grandfather's ham radio station, taken in 1919.
	Grandad was a pioneer in amateur radio, building his first station in 1913.
	And the radio equipment pictured includes a detector, tuner, and audio amplifier that is genuine DeForest built equipment.
	Not just the DeForest Audion tubes.
	DeForest built a few pieces of complete equipment as well.
	Today, it's rare as hen's teeth and would be worth a small fortune.
	Just after World War I, my grandfather, in the picture, was part of the U.S.
	Army Signal Corps.
	And he worked on developing the first radio communications with aircraft of any kind.
	So I thought you might be interested.
	What you see pictured there is indeed some of the very earliest radio equipment in the world.
	So that is history.
	Thank you very much, my friend.
	And I'm glad that I could share it with the audience.
	So thanks, Mike.
	Now, do you recall that last night, I read a story from Whitley Strieber's Unknown Country about Bob White.
	Bob is a 73-year-old man who had an encounter, who had a pretty close encounter, and had an object drop something which he was able to recover.
	There have been a number of tests done on it, and as a matter of fact, today I got the following email.
	I am Dr. Robert H. Gibbons, Executive Director of the Museum of the Unexplained in Reed Spring, Missouri.
	Bob White does not use a computer.
	This man who found this object and had the encounter.
	So I do all his emails for him.
	He wanted me to email you to tell you we have heard that you talked about the Kansas City Star article and Bob's UFO object on your program last couple days.
	And so I emailed your website with no effect.
	At any rate, we've connected now.
	So in a moment, instead of hearing me read the story as you did last night, thanks to Robert H. Gibbons for the email.
	We've got Bob White right here and he can tell you all about this in his own words.
	And by the way, we've got a photograph of the object that Bob recovered on the website.
	Right now.
	now you might want to go up there and take a look i can very well remember
	what it means to be a skeptic i I was a skeptic myself until I saw.
	There's nothing like Having seen two UFOs yourself, to turn you from skeptic to... Huh.
	I don't know.
	A very inquisitive person, let me put it that way.
	I doubt you go from skeptic to believer.
	Maybe a third type encounter would do that for you.
	I don't know.
	An actual contact of some sort.
	But having two very close encounters...
	We'll turn you from a skeptic to a person who has a hell of a lot of questions and that's what happened to me and so tonight we're going to be talking about UFOs mostly all night in a moment with Bob Wyatt and then coming up with David Sirita.
	And so I just thought I'd mention that at the top of the show.
	I was one of you, many of you, who are skeptics with regard to UFOs until it happened to me twice.
	And that really does change your worldview on things, and I guess that's the only way I can beg your understanding with regard to any discussion of UFOs.
	Bob White, welcome to the program.
	Thanks a lot, Art.
	Welcome.
	It's good to have you.
	I read your story, actually, last night on the air, Bob.
	I know.
	But there's nothing like getting the story from the person that it happened to.
	That'd be you.
	So I thought it would be great to have you on and just have you... I mean, there's quite a story behind all this.
	Why don't you start from the beginning and tell me about what happened.
	Well, I was always a skeptic like you.
	Like you were.
	And that was the furthest thing from my mind was anything about UFOs.
	My career was in show business and music.
	I was in Denver, Colorado and we were to open a new club there called King Cole.
	This was as near as I could figure in 1985.
	The club hadn't been completely remodeled yet and we were going to have about three days off.
	My brother and I did a musical comedy duo.
	I wanted to take a few days off and go to Vegas.
	We only had one car and my brother didn't want to go.
	So we left the car with him, and I was going to take a bus, and I met this young lady at the hotel, and she said, I live in Vegas.
	I'm going back there tonight.
	If you would like to ride along with me, you're welcome.
	Oh, well, there's an offer.
	Yeah, so I did.
	And I was asleep.
	She was driving her car, and we left them, and I was asleep.
	It was an evening, and it was really, really nice air.
	It had been hot all day.
	Where were you roughly?
	Well, when she woke me up, we were outside of Grand Junction, east of Grand Junction.
	Right.
	And she asked me what this light was up ahead.
	Well, there was a railroad track on the right-hand side of the road.
	And when I first saw the light, it was small.
	This would be about what time of morning?
	Oh, I'd say about 2 o'clock in the morning.
	2 in the morning.
	And no traffic, and it's a nice clear night, and you can see forever even without headlights.
	But our headlights were on.
	But what I told her was I thought it was a railroad light, and I went back to sleep.
	Now, the light must have been doing some pretty strange things, because she woke me up again, and she was just terrified.
	She was still stopped, or had still been... No, she was driving.
	She was still driving.
	She was still driving, alright.
	And she woke me up again.
	She said, that's not a railroad light.
	And I looked, and sure enough, I don't know if you've ever seen the sun when it was going down, and it's a bright, bright red.
	Sure.
	It was about that size.
	Oh.
	And I said, yeah, you're right.
	So about the size of the sun?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	And I said, I'll stay awake and watch this thing.
	Well, as we got closer, we rounded a curve in the highway, and the light turned out to be on the left-hand side.
	And as we got closer, it got huge.
	Uh-huh.
	And I reached over and shut the headlights off.
	There was no traffic on this little Highway 6.
	And there was no traffic.
	And I just thought it was safe to do that.
	And I said, let's drive this way until you get close enough to it.
	I wanted to get out and look at it.
	And so, anyway, I turned off the headlights when we got pretty close to it, and she pulled up to off the side of the road there, and I got out of the car to look at it.
	Now, my first thought was, this is those big halogen lights, and they're doing night mining here.
	I'm trying to explain this with logic to myself.
	Of course.
	And I got out of the car, and as I was standing there shielding my eyes looking at it, I couldn't see if there was anything solid in it or not.
	It was just too bright.
	And I guess out of nervousness or something, she turned the headlights on.
	And it was red?
	Well, it was a kind of a yellow-orange-red.
	I really don't know how to describe the light.
	It was so bright.
	The sun as it's hitting the horizon, as you pointed out, that kind of reddish?
	Yes.
	And she turned the headlights on for some reason.
	And when she did, this thing just shot up in the air to my left, which would have been east.
	And connected with something else, like two blue neon tubular lights, one on top of the other, with a space in between.
	And then it went across the sky out of sight.
	But before it did, my feeling now, after thinking about all this, is that this thing was ejected from it.
	Because had it broken off and fallen, logic tells me that it would have fallen straight down from a gravity pull, and it would have been miles from me.
	Okay, well, you said the one craft, Disappeared into this other?
	Yes.
	All right.
	What makes you believe that this... Did you see anything falling?
	Falling?
	No, it was ejected because it came right back at me.
	So you could see this thing as it came at you?
	Yes, I'm sure it was on fire because it was many, many different colors.
	I was going to say, you know, looking at the photograph of this, give me some scale.
	How big is this thing?
	Well, now it's about seven and a half inches long.
	Now?
	Now.
	Because Los Alamos cut about two inches off of the big end.
	Oh.
	And NEDS, the New Mexico Tech, I cut an inch of that off the other end, the small end, myself.
	Okay.
	So it's a slightly mutilated piece for science.
	Yes, exactly.
	Okay.
	Exactly.
	Looking at it, my understanding is it's been tested to be, the word was aluminum in the story, or largely aluminum.
	But you know, just before we get to discussing that aspect of it, I'm looking at this and it looks like, it looks like this thing has been subjected to a lot of heat.
	Well, they agreed on that.
	They do, huh?
	Yes.
	I mean, it looks almost like the damn thing had been melting or They agree on that.
	They do?
	Yes.
	They also agree that it is something that is not organic from anywhere on Earth or outside of Earth's atmosphere, that it's manufactured by intelligence.
	Well, that's a gigantic claim.
	And not of Earth?
	Well, see, only one scientist told me that, and then he later denied that he said it.
	I was very naive.
	When he told me that, he was very excited, and so was I. Why do you think he would say it and then retract it?
	You know, I think the reason is because he didn't want publicity, and I didn't know that, and I called a newspaper reporter and told him in our small little community here in Springfield, and he's a friend of mine, and I told him what the scientist said, and he called the scientist, who incidentally works for Los Alamos, and he denied he said it.
	The nearest I can figure out is he didn't want publicity.
	Well, I understand that, Bob.
	These are men with reputations and jobs and families.
	I understand it now, too.
	Things like that.
	But I didn't at the beginning.
	I thought, boy, everybody will be glad to hear about this.
	Did he tell you on what basis, when he originally said it, he made that statement?
	I mean, there must have been something that would make him say that.
	Really, and that's what I've been trying to find out, and that's what this scientist from NASA has told me.
	We've contacted him and he's going to do an analysis on it.
	There's only four laboratories in the world that can do isotope tests on chromium.
	Right.
	And this guy at NASA, Nyquist, I think his name is, Dr. Nyquist, said he was very much interested in it.
	And unfortunately, his person that ran the machines died.
	So they have to train somebody else.
	So I have to wait.
	Okay.
	In the meantime, you said this thing was ejected or... That's my theory.
	...even fired toward you?
	I don't know what the word would be.
	What do you think the word would be?
	Did it seem like... I think ejected.
	I don't think they were firing at me.
	If they have that much technology, I believe they could have hit me.
	That's a good point.
	I wasn't a bit afraid until this thing came back at me.
	So, after the thing had disappeared into the other ship, this is when it ejected this?
	Yes.
	At the same time that it went into the ship.
	And so, you looked up and you were watching a ship disappear into a ship and you then saw something fiery headed toward you.
	Yes.
	Did you hear it hit the ground?
	No.
	No.
	What happened?
	It hit on the other side of a little embankment.
	And that's, I think, what kept it from being buried into the ground, and that's a real fine, powdery sand there.
	And I've been back out there, and tried to find the location, and I think we have found it.
	Where this hit the hillside, and it slanted and went out, and I followed the groove in the ground and I found it.
	So it laid a path?
	Yes, and it was still glowing hot.
	Oh, it was hot when you found it?
	Oh yeah.
	Okay, so you, what did you do?
	I mean, once the craft had finally disappeared and this thing was found, you didn't know exactly where it was.
	What did you do?
	Grab a flashlight?
	No, you could see.
	I could see perfectly.
	It was that close?
	Yeah, well, not only that, but you're familiar with the high desert.
	I am.
	You get a clear sky at night like that, and you can see very well.
	Absolutely.
	We have a line of sight out here that people from New York just couldn't grasp.
	Yep, you're right.
	Because that's what happened to me.
	But believe me, that was the furthest thing from my mind, even at the time that I saw it.
	So when it hit then, there was enough of a glow and it was just in front of you roughly where it hit.
	So you could just like walk right over to where it landed.
	Right.
	Alright, this thing obviously was really hot.
	I mean, that would be my assessment.
	Really hot.
	Molten hot.
	Yes.
	So did you just stand there and wait, or what did you do?
	Oh, I went back to the car.
	And by the time I got back there, the girl, Jan was her name, was outside of the car screaming at me to get out of there.
	She said, before this thing comes back.
	She had a good point.
	Well, I was stupid.
	My thought was this is a secret project that our government is working on.
	I'm still trying to explain it with logic.
	Oh, okay.
	And so I calmed her down, and I got her back in the car, and I could see that she was too nervous to drive.
	I took the keys out of the ignition to open the trunk, because it wasn't my car.
	I wanted to see if there was anything in there that I could pick it up with.
	Logic, again, yes.
	And she said, she laid down in the front seat, and I said, she said, I can't drive.
	I said, I'll drive.
	When I get back, I just want to check something out.
	So I went back to the trunk and I took the keys because I didn't want her to drive off and leave me.
	Right.
	I'm in the middle of nowhere.
	Right.
	She sounded like she was ready to head for New York City.
	She was.
	She really was.
	So I got the trunk open and I found one of these old brown work gloves.
	And it was all that was in there besides my little suitcase.
	Right.
	Overnight case.
	And I walked back to the thing.
	Now this whole thing, get her to calm down and walk back, took about 35 minutes.
	And it had cooled down.
	And we found out later that this is the element gadolinium that causes it to retain cold.
	Gadolinium?
	Yes, gadolinium.
	That causes it to retain what?
	Cold.
	Cold?
	Yeah, it cools down immediately.
	Oh, I see.
	So it's got a very fast cooling... Yes.
	And I run the back of my hand over this thing and I didn't feel any heat.
	It was no longer glowing.
	And I just dropped the glove on top of it in case it was hot, I could drop it.
	I picked it up because I'm curious now, and I took it back to the car and put it in my suitcase, closed the trunk, and then I drove on.
	We drove a few minutes and got into a little town called Sisko, Utah.
	We found an all-night diner there, and it was really a small diner.
	We went inside and I wanted something to drink.
	That was my drinking day.
	She needed something to drink.
	But all they had was coffee.
	It was really a small diner.
	I've been back out there since and we have located the diner again in Sisco.
	But it's been almost destroyed.
	Just the shell of the building is left standing.
	What was this young lady's first name again?
	Jan.
	Well, Jan is the, obviously, she's a witness for you.
	Yeah, if I could find her.
	Ah, so Jan's in the wind.
	Well, she was actually from, she said, from Minnesota.
	I remember that.
	Well, we're on national radio right now.
	Maybe she can hear, maybe she's hearing this.
	If she does, I hope she contacts me.
	Out of curiosity, if she did and wanted to contact you, how would she do that?
	At the Museum of the Unexplained.
	Reed Spring, Missouri.
	And my phone number is 272... No, no, no.
	Don't do that, Bob.
	You have no idea the mistake you were getting ready to make.
	You don't want to do that.
	As long as we've got the location here, the Museum of the Unexplained in Reed Spring, Missouri, that'll be sufficient.
	Or perhaps a website, I think, Friend Robert has a website, right?
	Yes, we do.
	It's www.hardevidence.com.
	Alright.
	Bob, hard evidence, that's a big claim, too.
	You think this is hard evidence?
	I know it is.
	Of?
	Of extraterrestrial life.
	I'm thoroughly convinced.
	Okay, you said earlier that at one moment you had a thought that Perhaps it could be our own military was something very advanced, right?
	Absolutely.
	What disabused you of that notion?
	Why are you saying now extraterrestrial?
	What made you cross that bridge?
	Many things.
	The first thing that happened to me was when I sent it off to NIDS, I had someone call me back a few weeks later, and it took several weeks, and they said, I'm sorry to disappoint you, but it is not extraterrestrial.
	And I said, I'm not disappointed.
	I didn't think it was extraterrestrial.
	Then when I took it to Los Alamos, and there were about 20 scientists down there to look at it, and only two of them would touch it.
	And the others?
	Wouldn't touch it.
	Wouldn't even touch it.
	And they videoed me inside Los Alamos.
	that they videoed this all of the video of the inside los alamos i've got all
	of the some and i think a p uh... later i got a a copy
	of the video with me inside los alamos
	who took the video A guy named John Bass.
	He's in public relations and they called him down there with a great big camera on his shoulder.
	So you just like picked up the phone and called Los Alamos and said, listen... No, no.
	I didn't know what to do with it.
	All right, I tell you.
	Hold on, Bob.
	Stay right there.
	Remember, this could happen to you.
	This man had an encounter with a... actually two ships, which then...
	virtually spit something or rejected something at him and we've got a picture of that something on the website right now coastcoastam.com and then he's well that kind of changed his life in more ways than one and we'll find out more about that in a moment from the high deserts where indeed you can gaze out over a 40 mile vista.
	Can you imagine that?
	in the middle of the night arm are the
	the the
	The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
	To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll free at 800-825-5033.
	line is area code 775-727-1222. To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll-free
	at 800-825-5033. From west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
	International callers may reach Art by calling your in-country Sprint Access number,
	pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free, 800-893-0903.
	From coast to coast, and worldwide on the Internet, this is Coast to Coast AM, with Art Bell.
	So, my guest Bob, and a young lady named Jan, are on their way to Vegas one day, middle of the night, about 2 AM, out tonight.
	Uh, remote part of Colorado.
	Suddenly, there's a light.
	It's near some tracks.
	First, they think it has to do with railroad.
	It doesn't.
	This is a craft of some kind.
	And, uh, they stop and they watch the craft.
	And then, pretty soon, one craft disappears inside of another craft.
	And then, suddenly, PEDROCKY!
	This thing excretes or spits or dumps or fires this piece of whatever in the world it is that we're looking at right here.
	It's on the website.
	You need to take a look at this.
	It's obviously... It's been in a very high temperature situation.
	It's metallic.
	It's pretty good size.
	it's been tested at several locations in and you have not yet heard
	the whole story and i'll tell you what you know your your you're talking to
	a trusting guy one halfway through a conversation on the radio program
	being aired on five affiliates nationwide he starts giving his phone number out.
	Ha ha ha ha.
	Oh, Bob.
	Welcome back.
	So, Bob, there's a number of things.
	I want to finish up with this.
	So far, that wouldn't have turned you from U.S.
	military to Not getting a rejection slip, in essence, from NID saying it's Terrestrial in origin or something.
	That wouldn't have done it.
	So what did?
	Well, when they told me all this at Los Alamos... Now, the reason I went to Los Alamos was I still didn't know what to do.
	Well, did you call Los Alamos?
	No, what I did was I sent a picture and the story of my encounter to Unsolved Mysteries.
	Ah!
	And so they asked me if I would be willing to Send the piece to Los Alamos, and I said, absolutely not.
	I'm not going to let it out of my sight.
	They make a long story short, they paid for my expenses there.
	Smart move, Bob.
	And for the analysis.
	I said, I won't let it out of my sight.
	And then the scientists out there really shook me up when they wouldn't touch it.
	Did they at all indicate why they were hesitant to touch it?
	No, huh?
	No.
	But they had to cut a piece off of the big end for some reason.
	I know why now.
	I found out later.
	But it's just a long, long story.
	So many things have happened.
	What we did was I let them take a piece of it.
	It took them quite a while to cut it with a water saw.
	Well, some analysis is destructive, Bob.
	There's no question about it.
	Well, they couldn't get the piece into the equipment.
	It was too large.
	Well, there's that, and they need very tiny samples to do... You know, I gave some of Art's parts, and they're the same deal.
	It's destructive.
	I mean, you don't get it back.
	Oh, they took the piece off the big inch, which is about three inches in diameter, and about an inch thick.
	And then I found out later, you don't need that much.
	And so, at the end of the day, one of the scientists there told you it was not of this Earth.
	Now, at the end of the day...
	I had to go back to Missouri and I asked them how long it would take to get an analysis.
	They said they couldn't do it in one day.
	He said three or four days.
	This is in my sworn affidavit in my polygraph exam.
	I was going to get to that.
	You're in conflict with one of the scientists.
	You were given a lie detector examination.
	Who did that?
	George Larvie, Captain George Larvie, he's still with the Springfield Sheriff's Department.
	Now, is this something you volunteered for?
	Yes.
	Yes, I did two of them.
	And I passed both of them.
	Okay.
	At whose behest was it?
	Well, the first time was my board of directors at the museum.
	We're a non-profit, 501c3.
	And they insisted that I tell the truth.
	They wanted to be certain that I was telling the truth.
	Sure.
	And so they took me to their friend, or acquaintance, that they knew.
	I didn't know him.
	But he did polygraph tests for the Springfield Police Department for 28 years.
	Gotcha.
	And he did not believe in UFOs.
	Gotcha.
	Well, I passed that one.
	Out of curiosity, I mean, once you're strapped in taking a lie detector test, was there any reaction from the person giving the test when you passed?
	Absolutely.
	Oh?
	He wouldn't discuss it with me.
	He discussed it with the others.
	And from what they've told me, and this is hearsay, what they told me was he said, this man was the most honest man I ever talked to.
	Uh huh.
	But such a thing would certainly, on the person giving the test, have some large effect.
	I mean, if they regarded you as that honest, then what you said was the truth spilling out.
	Well, he said that as far as I was concerned, I was telling the truth.
	Right.
	Whether this really happened or not, I thought it happened.
	Right.
	Understood.
	And so you then took a second one somehow, right?
	And the reason I took the second one was years later.
	Yes.
	They called me from UK.
	Flame TV wanted to know if I would be interested in doing a TV show for England that will not be shown over here.
	And as long as they paid all the expenses, I said, sure, you know, the world should know about this.
	And so they insisted that I take another polygraph test, and believe it or not, it was another police officer.
	Well, it's totally believable.
	They get a lot of them.
	And so away you went again.
	Right.
	And passed the second one with flying colors.
	Yes, and this one was a lot more detailed questions.
	All right, but again, getting to the part where you went from thinking it might be military to believing extraterrestrial, it was what?
	The scientists there that did it, or what?
	One scientist.
	One scientist who said... He told me that it would be three or four days before they could get an analysis.
	Right.
	It was three or four weeks.
	And I had his phone number at home, and I was anxious, and I called him at home.
	And he blurted it out.
	He said, this is something that I've been looking for all my life.
	It's definitely extraterrestrial.
	So naturally, I didn't know anyone was going to deny it or lie about it.
	I went around telling my friends and everybody else that this guy said it was extraterrestrial.
	You probably thought, boy, I've hit the jackpot.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, I understand.
	Well, I thought the whole world was going to know about it.
	I thought, boy, this will make the mainstream media and everybody will know that there is something else out there besides us.
	Bob, there's one other, well, more than one, but one important question I want to ask, and maybe there's nothing to this, but in so many cases of close encounters like the one you had, people end up with missing time.
	I wonder, during this whole encounter thing, was there any distortion of No.
	or any missing time that either Jan or yourself noted?
	No.
	All right.
	How did it end up with Jan?
	I mean, you guys were on your way to Las Vegas, and you had this experience.
	After this experience, did you just continue on your way with this in the trunk,
	or how did it end up with Jan?
	Well, I can't malign someone else.
	Let's just say that we parted company the first night in Las Vegas, and I came back on the bus.
	And you came back on the bus?
	Yes.
	And the first person to laugh at me and ask me how much I had to drink, or what was I smoking, was my brother.
	Well, did you, let's see if we can broadly ask about this, did you have more than a casual I didn't like what she was doing.
	I had nothing to do with her, intimately.
	But she did with someone else.
	Uh huh.
	And so there was a disagreement of some sort that developed between...
	I didn't like what she was doing.
	I see.
	I had nothing to do with her, intimately.
	Right. But somebody else...
	What she was doing involved me and it didn't look good.
	Okay. And so you freaked out and headed back from Las Vegas with the peace in tow.
	Right.
	And you kept it to yourself, I take it?
	Yes.
	Okay, so there's where we leave Jan in the wind.
	Right.
	So Jan's out there somewhere.
	Yes.
	Had you... I mean, usually when an experience like this occurs, and you get back in the car, and you're on your way to Las Vegas, two people would normally sit and talk about what just happened to them.
	We did.
	When we stopped at this little diner, we were talking about it, and there was only two tables in this diner right behind the counter, behind us.
	And we were talking about it at the counter.
	And one of the guys got up and came up to me, and he said, you people saw something out there tonight, didn't you?
	And I said, yeah, we saw some lights.
	And he said, well, have you reported it?
	And I said, no, I don't know who to report it to and why would I?
	He concluded this because he heard your conversation with Jan?
	Yes.
	And he said, well, we see them here all the time.
	Oh.
	But he said, we report them and they won't do anything about it.
	Maybe coming from a couple of outsiders, they'll do something, they'll investigate.
	Did you pipe up and say, guess what, I got a piece of one or something?
	No, no, no.
	But he gave me a telephone number to call and it was a local number.
	So I called it, and it sounded like a person of authority on the other end.
	And he said, well, we didn't pick up anything on radar.
	And he said, what you saw was probably some reflection of headlights, or some swamp gases, or something.
	And you know the thing that really upsets me?
	Good old swamp gas.
	Yes!
	What?
	All these brilliant scientists.
	Now, I have a 7th grade education.
	And all these brilliant scientists say, Well, possibly what you saw was a falling star.
	I have a 7th grade education and I know there's no such thing as a falling star.
	Why don't they?
	Well, they don't fall and then hover and then join other falling stars while hovering.
	They just don't do that.
	No, they don't.
	And they're not stars anyway, they're meteorites.
	Well, may well be.
	At any rate, certainly you've got something serious here.
	You've got a, well...
	You know, I was sort of joking, but I mean this could be an excretion.
	It could be, it could be, I mean it could be some big monster up there picked its teeth or something and look what fell out.
	It's really hard to say.
	Any, are there any thoughts among us?
	It's surprising you should say that because I call it space doo-doo.
	Well, well.
	You sure wouldn't want to meet whatever excreted something like that.
	No, I wouldn't.
	And flaming at that, right?
	Right.
	No, you wouldn't want to meet that being.
	So, anyway, it was what the scientist said to you that made you believe you'd had a... Well, I called him, and he just blurted it out, and I thought, well, you know, everybody will want to know this, and so I told everyone.
	I didn't know I was supposed to keep it quiet.
	And they turned around, checked with the scientist, who said, I never said anything of the sort.
	Well, my friend at the newspaper called.
	And I see.
	Well, that would do the trick.
	And so the newspaper fellow called Los Alamos.
	Yes, I get the picture.
	Michael O'Brien, he worked at the News Leader here.
	He did two or three write-ups on this.
	And when I told him that, he said, boy, that's great news.
	I'll call him and check with him.
	I said, yeah, you do that.
	That'd be big news, all right.
	And he came back to you and said, guess what?
	Yeah, he denied it.
	I can understand why.
	And so, included in both of the polygraph tests you took, or was it just one, the question about what the scientist had said.
	Yes.
	And also, I named his name.
	Well, without giving his name, do you recall how the person giving the test asked you that question?
	Do you recall what it was?
	Yeah, the first one, George Larvie.
	I had to do a sworn affidavit and take it to him.
	Right.
	And his name is in my sworn affidavit.
	I told him everything that happened.
	Sure.
	And so he asked me about that.
	So, from the affidavit, he concocted the question.
	Yes.
	I've got it.
	Okay.
	Well, what are you going to do with it?
	Who knows?
	It's still just trying to, you know, get it out there to the world.
	What do you want to happen?
	What I want to happen now is I want the world to To pay attention, and I want these scientists to get their heads out of the sand, and I want our government to come clean.
	I don't believe it will ever happen.
	So, you believe that our government is well aware that we're being visited, and is not admitting to this.
	Why?
	Common sense.
	And I found that most scientists, exception here, that scientists don't use common sense. If it hasn't been
	in the textbook, it hasn't happened and it will never happen. But common sense tells
	me, look, we're the most powerful nation in the world. Right? Yes, we are. We can't control
	our skies, given that UFOs exist.
	Well, that bomb might.
	Well, Bob, that might be the exact reason why they don't say anything about it.
	Our military is all about control, and if they don't have control of even their own skies... They can't!
	...then they're very unlikely to admit that to those... They'd panic, wouldn't they?
	Well, it certainly would.
	It certainly would.
	So they had no radar on this?
	None.
	You were fortunate to have someone to call, Bob, because I was lamenting about this last night.
	If you have a sighting, perhaps there was a day in America when you could pick up the phone and call a close-by Air Force base or something and report it.
	These days, if you call an Air Force base, as it said in the email I got, you're going to be turned on to some airman or something who doesn't have the slightest idea what to say to you and may write down what you say and pass it on to a lieutenant who will laugh and throw it away.
	Our government officially doesn't investigate this kind of thing anymore.
	Not after Blue Book, Bob.
	I know.
	But there's so much more to this story, just so much more, that I have learned.
	I have read and studied books and talked to scientists here, and I have learned so much that it's just impossible for anyone to deny, like the Kansas City Star, when they printed the article, and I'm very grateful for that, They left out a lot of things.
	They didn't call Dr. Gibbons, Dr. Gibbons.
	They didn't say that he's a NASA scientist.
	They just said, Mr. Gibbons.
	Robert Gibbons.
	Yes.
	And I want to make one correction.
	When I told you where we were when we saw this, I said east of Grand Junction.
	It was west.
	It was west of Grand Junction.
	It was closer to Sisco, Utah.
	All right.
	You know, a lot of things could happen after all these years.
	Jan could be out there somewhere.
	Yes.
	And she might be willing to corroborate your story.
	That, of course, would, if it came along, be another story in itself.
	Yes, it would.
	Blow this whole thing back up again.
	Yeah.
	Otherwise, this piece of metal that we're looking at, Bob, it's aluminum, and what else, if anything?
	32 different rare earth elements that they've found so far, and there's a small percentage missing.
	Yes.
	Things like gadolinium, strontium, europium, magnesium, manganese, aluminum of course, but no tin.
	And they found two meteorites from Mars.
	And one, the guy that worked on it, worked on the meteorites from Mars, and they knew they were meteorites from Mars, and they did isotopes on strontium.
	Those are the ones that were in the news fairly recently, in the last few years.
	Yes.
	Well, the same guy worked on my object.
	And my readings fall right in between the two, from Antarctica and from India, that are from Mars.
	But yet, they deny the measurements.
	This guy denies the measurements, said they're not accurate.
	He did the work on it for For both of these things, he participated in it, and he did this for the... I'm trying to think of it.
	Is it true, Bob, this object is not stored in the same place every day?
	Mine?
	Yeah.
	I wouldn't leave it in the same place.
	So you literally move this thing around every single day to a new location?
	Well, there's five of us on the board of directors, and nobody knows who's going to have it.
	So you're that concerned?
	Absolutely.
	And you wouldn't leave anybody alone with it?
	You wouldn't send it off en masse for analysis, put it in UPS and send it?
	No, of course not.
	But I would take it.
	But anyway, the guy that helped do these measurements did it for the Field Museum in Chicago.
	Ah, yes.
	And the lady there, I can't pronounce her name, is Dr.
	Waha or something like that.
	Yes.
	And the measurements are the same as mine.
	Mine falls right in between the two.
	Alright, listen buddy.
	Thank you for coming on the air and telling your story tonight.
	Thank you very much, Bob.
	Thank you.
	And you take care.
	Good luck with it.
	Thank you so much.
	I do affirm this for you.
	But once you've seen something, or make that twice in my case, you're never quite exactly
	the same person ever again.
	You don't come easy, you know you don't come easy.
	Come to see the Jews if you wanna see the blues, and you know you don't come easy.
	You don't have to shout or leap the louds, you can even play them easy.
	Get about the louds, and all your songs...
	You can run but you can't hide in the juni...
	...ee...
	Whoa!
	What's the bottom of the tide?
	Once when you were mine I remember your smile Reflected in your eyes I wonder where you are
	I wonder if you think about me What's the bottom of the tide?
	In your wildest dreams To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
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	line is area code 775-727-1222. To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll-free
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	number, pressing Option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903. From coast to coast and
	worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell. Well, you just
	heard an hour-long account by Bob White of an experience he had and an apparent artifact.
	from that experience, and what it's done to his life, really, in a lot of ways.
	I told you tonight was UFO-related, and so it shall be.
	David Sirita's first aspiration in life, he's our guest coming up, was to become an astronaut.
	That's what he wanted.
	In 1968, though, David and a friend witnessed a UFO, along with hundreds of other witnesses.
	And, once again, after this experience, David grew up You might imagine, as a UFO enthusiast, never living in doubt of the phenomena that has swept the world since the Roswell incident in 1947.
	His interest in space, religion, philosophy, astronomy, science, has led him on his career in related fields.
	He's worked deeply in high technology on environmental and humanitarian issues and as a professional photographer for over 20 years.
	He studied world religion, science, physics, and paranormal psychology for over 25 years.
	in a moment, David Sarita.
	It would be kind of, I guess in keeping with what we've been discussing tonight,
	First of all, David, welcome to the program.
	Thank you, Art, for having me on again.
	Happy to have you.
	It's kind of an interesting discussion tonight, David.
	I talked with Bob White for an hour, who had an amazing sighting, and actually has an artifact from that sighting.
	Even before I had him on, I was sort of, I don't know, I guess reminiscing that I was a skeptic at one time, until it happened to me.
	Twice.
	And that changes you for life.
	And I know there are a lot of people in our audience tonight that have never had a sighting.
	They've never seen a disc or a UFO or whatever.
	They never have.
	And they're probably pretty skeptical.
	Well, Bob's life changed.
	My life changed.
	Obviously, as I just read in 1968, your life changed.
	Apparently forever, or at least through this moment.
	What happened to you in 1968?
	Well, it's actually quite amazing, because in 1967-68, I was born in 61 in Berkeley, California, walking home from school.
	We used to be Star Trek fans back then, and my brothers and I were all getting up and watching Star Trek after school.
	We used to drop pennies, my friend Tommy and I, down the manhole to hit the guy on the head with the orange hard hat.
	He would come running up, screaming after us, and we would hide.
	I remember dropping the penny, hitting the guy in the head, and when he came up, we were running, and we noticed everyone's looking at this metallic disc shining in the sky, and everyone came out of the manhole.
	The whole street was packed, and I remember people knocking on their neighbors' doors.
	And there was this shiny, metallic, shimmering UFO, and we thought, oh, it's the Starship Enterprise.
	And, you know, when we got home and I told my father and my mother what I had seen that day, it was like, no, those things don't really exist.
	I mean, that's just a TV show.
	But I had a series of dreams, repeated dreams, of one set of multi-color lights spinning one way and one spinning the other way, the opposite direction, on the same axis.
	And what's interesting about the dream is many years later, it's actually in the 1970s, three physicists, Bardeen Cooper and Schaefer, won the Nobel Prize for what is known as Cooper's Pairs, and they spin electron pairs in opposite directions on the same axis, and they get superconductivity, the ultimate state of conquering, you know, inertia and resistance.
	So there had to be some meaning to the dream, and there was the answer, you know, many years later.
	But you had an unqualified experience, not a dream.
	You actually... No, I saw the UFO.
	It was the dreams that followed the experience of seeing the UFO.
	So as a kid, you dropped pennies on workers for fun?
	For fun, yes.
	I remember him getting so pissed off.
	I thought, oh, if he catches us, he's going to kill us.
	So, you grew up to be an adult researching UFOs, and you turned from wanting to be an astronaut, that was, I guess, very early, huh?
	Well, actually, at that time, my stepfather, Dave Cooper, was a science teacher, and I was collecting scrap missions of every Apollo mission there was, and just dreaming about going into space.
	And I really believed, in fact, I remember one day eating lunch at a restaurant, Vancouver Canada and this man just standing up out of the blue and tapping me on the shoulder I've never seen before in my life and he says excuse me sir but I see you as an astronaut in your future and then he went and sat back down and I thought oh my god maybe I'm really gonna make it or I'm gonna get abducted one day I don't know what one of the two.
	So now as an adult would you regard yourself as I guess a ufologist?
	Oh definitely I have been able to Being in the company of some of the greatest physicists of our time, working on nuclear fusion and working on hydrogen breakthrough technologies, and a lot of high-tech stuff, including bomb detection, for major, major physicists.
	And I was able to be a fly-on-the-wall theoretical physicist for years in front of people like Bogdan Maglic, Murray Gellman, Norman Rostocker, Glenn Seaborg, who chaired the Atomic Energy Commission.
	Well, how did your belief in ufology get you next to these guys?
	Well, I kind of keep it secret.
	I mean, in fact, even today, in the hallway, I bumped into a UCLA physicist, Jim Roseboro, who's a professor of physics at UCLA, and he said, I don't believe in UFOs.
	In fact, technically, they're not even allowed to believe in UFOs, because they just get laughed at.
	Oh, yes.
	And maybe in secret, a lot of them do.
	In fact, you end up finding out when they retire, they're very interested.
	but while they're in office, in fact I remember sending Murray Gellman, the 1962 Nobel Prize
	winner in physics, who is said to be the greatest scientist since Einstein by many physicists
	today, discoverer of quarks and all these subatomic particles.
	I worked with him, he was in the company of the physicist I worked for in fusion, and
	when I sent him the tape on the NASA UFOs, he was really upset.
	I mean... Well, I still am unable to grasp how your work in ufology got you next to these guys, or were you legitimately working in... No, I was legitimately working for them, and they didn't know about my interest in UFOs.
	I was working for them, trying to do, like, Bogdan Kassel Maglic had developed a nuclear fusion device using helium-3 and deuterium, which is far beyond cold fusion, far beyond tritium fusion, And then I met all these guys.
	I met the head of the Russian space program at the time.
	You were working as a... would you characterize yourself as a scientist or a scientific... perhaps some sort of scientific assistant?
	Where would you put yourself?
	Well, where I was is I got a letter one day from John Bryson, who just took over Southern California Edison.
	He's an ex-environmentalist who becomes the new CEO of Edison.
	And Edison decided to invite me to bring in all these alternative energy scientists.
	This is back in the late 80s.
	And I met, I read about Bogdan Maglic.
	There was an article called, Bogdan Maglic Knows How to Make Non-Radioactive Nuclear Power, So Why Isn't He?, in the Omni, February 87 issue.
	And I phoned him up and I said, you know, the President of Edison wants to meet you.
	So I met Maglic on the steps of Edison, that would be 1987-88, And I thought it was going to be a slam dunk.
	I thought this guy had scores of Nobel Laureates supporting his work.
	He had already funded three prototype models.
	In 1987, the Air Force at Kirtland in New Mexico just finished feasibility studies on Super Cray-2s to find out if the next stage would achieve beyond break-even fusion using helium-3 fuel.
	And helium-3 fuel is so energetic.
	Nine grams of helium-3 can produce the energy of a thousand barrels of crude oil.
	It is far more energetic than cold fusion.
	I'll give you an example.
	Is this a hot fusion process?
	It's hot fusion.
	In fact, there are people who don't even believe... I've talked to many... In fact, I talked to Seaborg about cold fusion.
	Seaborg was the head of the AEC and, of course, responsible for all the nuclear testing in Nevada.
	Um, he said he didn't believe it was fusion.
	He said it was some sort of a chemical reaction that was causing the heat, and then they convert the heat to energy.
	A hot fusion reaction producing what kind of temperatures?
	Uh, you're not going to believe this, but let's... Try me.
	Okay, 10 billion degrees, with no heat radiating out of the reactor.
	10 billion degrees.
	Alright, um... Which is ridiculous!
	Isn't there a problem in containing Something that produces that kind of heat?
	That's the first reaction that everybody says.
	So, to give a comparative model, the government fusion reactor at Princeton, which is Tokamak fusion, they fuse deuterium and tritium and they get about a hundred million degrees.
	And they have a lot of problems containing the temperature.
	Okay, well I'm asking that question.
	If you produce something of that temperature, how do you contain it?
	Here's how it's done.
	The genius of Magwitch was that he He built a self-colliding beam magnetic field that every time the heat or energy tries to radiate out, the magnetic field keeps throwing it back into the center.
	That's why it gets so intensely concentrated in the center of the device.
	And he was able to clobber tokamak fusion in temperatures.
	You need a billion to fuse helium-3.
	You need a hundred.
	Alright, just a speculative question, David, but if you had a fusion reaction of this magnitude going on, And, unlike a conventional reactor, you have a water problem.
	You've got a little fudge time in there to correct things.
	But it seems to me, if you lost your magnetic field, it would be very unpleasant.
	Well, that's what it seems like.
	Wouldn't it?
	I mean, wouldn't that be a problem?
	No, in this case it wouldn't be.
	In fact, it's very safe.
	And I'll explain why.
	Most nuclear reactions, including slow fission of uranium, You're basically taking energy in the form of heat and boiling water.
	And water, of course, you get pressure on pipes and there's a lot of, you know, coarse radiation.
	Right.
	Slow fission of uranium produces 200 million electron volts per fission, fusion, fission, sorry.
	And you lose 60% of that by the time you convert your thermal conversion from heat back into electricity because you're boiling water and turning turbines.
	Sure.
	Cold fusion, deuterium-deuterium produces 3.67 MeV, which is a fraction of that, and you lose 60% again because it's a heat-thermal conversion, which leaves you with about 1.2 MeV.
	Now, helium-3 fusion is benign.
	There's no heat conversion.
	It produces all charged particles that convert directly into electricity, cutting out or obliating the heat cycle, and making it much more efficient, and plus, So you're saying there is no heat cycle?
	There's no heat cycle.
	And he had this working?
	He had three models developed working, and then the Air Force at Kirtland did tests for the final model on Super Cray-2s to simulate the reaction.
	Yes.
	And the results were classified, described as groundbreaking work on fusion power, which I had access to those reports.
	The reports were so stunning, they said there was no reason, no instabilities, They would attain, beyond breakeven, one square meter would produce a gigawatt.
	That's a full-scale nuclear module.
	One gigawatt, a billion watts in a square meter, and nine grams of the fuel, which you can hold in your left hand, and that'll produce the energy of a thousand barrels of crude oil.
	So what happened to this device?
	I mean, they confirm it virtually on a Cray computer, and then what?
	Then what happens is James Fletcher, who's head of NASA in the late 80s, and Earl Van Lanningham, whom I've had very long conversations with about fusion and UFOs, he was head of propulsion power and energy at NASA, and they were begging for this thing.
	They were like, the space station has these solar panels up there.
	They have very, in terms of doing high energy experimentation in space, they have a very small amount of power on the space station.
	They'd love to have a lot more.
	They would love to have a gigawatt.
	Of course.
	They're nowhere near that.
	They're in the 100 megawatt range, you know, down in that range right now.
	So a gigawatt is a dream.
	And further, Van Lanningham said that you could use the reactor and you could open a iris, open and closing iris at the back of the reactor, and he said 18 MeV protons, that's 18 million electron volt protons, As an anti-proton propulsion system could send spacecraft up to one-tenth the speed of light, which is 67 million miles an hour.
	And today we can only do, the space shuttle does 18,000 miles an hour.
	So now you're telling me we've got an energy source and a propulsion system.
	That's what Dr. Van Lanningham told me.
	He said the studies were being done at the University of Wisconsin at Madison into anti-proton propulsion systems.
	And based on the two criteria that NASA needed, propulsion and an energy source, James Fletcher approaches Congress, this is late 80s, asked for the funding to complete the reactor.
	They turned him down.
	Why?
	It's a really amazing story.
	Amaze me.
	I mean, if something is that good, why would you turn it down?
	It's amazing.
	And even at that time period, I believe in the last days of Howard Hughes' life, he was very close to signing the check himself.
	In fact, he read it personally, but never got around to signing it before he died.
	Every investor... I had a company... Well, firstly, In 1992, I was appointed as director of the L.A.
	Tesla Foundation, and under that foundation, we were promoting scientific discoveries for a better environment.
	I was invited to speak in Congress in 1993, which is, you know, Clinton-Gore's reign, and we spoke in Congress with a handful of some of the most brilliant physicists in this country, to a panel that was only 50% present, Um, Harry Hamlin, the actor from L.A.
	Law, was there and he personally was trying to get Gore to sit in on the hearings, Al Gore, and Al Gore didn't even want to come to the hearings.
	No one, hardly anyone showed up.
	We made our speech, um, and we were turned down.
	Again.
	Why?
	Well, this is where it gets, it gets really, really, really quite wicked.
	Um, in the Tesla Foundation, I was asked by Dr. Maglish to do fundraising, um, With all the oil companies and all the philanthropy foundations, and I remember being on the phone with Royal Dutch Shell, and I got the most intimidating person on the phone.
	He was saying, you do not want to continue and pursue this any longer.
	David, here's where I stop and ask you, if you're going to fundraise for a new energy source, that's going to put the oil companies in the crapper.
	In the crapper.
	Maybe the oil companies wouldn't be the first ones you'd approach for funding, or would I be off base?
	Well, actually, to protect their investment as a hedge, they better.
	So you mix in a little blackmail?
	You mix in a little blackmail.
	But this guy, he wouldn't let me get off the phone.
	I mean, this man was basically telling me he could ruin my life.
	Oh, really?
	I was like, excuse me, sir, but I respect that you don't want to fund this, but I have to get off the phone, and he would not let me get off the phone.
	He wanted me to understand who they were, and his authority was so beckoning with power.
	Do you realize who you're talking to, son?
	Exactly.
	It was just like that, and I was so terrified.
	I was like, oh my God, can I just get off the phone now?
	I don't want to talk to you anymore.
	You and your family.
	Are at dire risk.
	Do you realize that, Mr. Sarita?
	Do you want to really keep talking to me about this?
	That kind of thing?
	Look what happened to our friend Eugene Malove, whom I also had many conversations with.
	Well, we're not sure what happened in the murder of Dr. Malove.
	We don't know.
	We really don't know.
	But it is, whether, I often think it was, if it was an accident or a coincidence, is it a psychic level that he was being attacked where, you know, Did physical beings intervene on the dark side, or was it a real hit job where the CIA or whoever... We don't know.
	We sure know it was a murder.
	But it's one thing I'll tell you about cold fusion, and this is a concern for national security, and Hoagland brought the point up, but didn't finish it, and that is that cold fusion, deuterium-deuterium, is 3.67 MeV, but 33% radioactive neutrons.
	And when you have a radioactive neutron source, you can use it to potentially breed plutonium from uranium.
	But I don't know if the neutrons are strong enough in Cold Fusion 3.67 MeV.
	It would take an awfully long time, but you could probably do it.
	And that would mean it would pose a security threat for terrorism.
	You wouldn't want a rogue nation learning how to build one of these and having their own neutron source.
	But with Helium-3, there are no neutrons.
	There's no gamma rays.
	There's no x-rays, there's nothing, other than pure energy.
	Well, you know who heads up C.SETI, right?
	Who what?
	Who heads up C.SETI.
	Uh, Seth Szostak, or who's the head of it?
	No, that's SETI.
	Yeah.
	C.SETI is what I'm referring to.
	Oh, yeah, right.
	Dr. Greer.
	Sure.
	Dr. Greer is looking for somebody just like you, or with claiming to have the kind of technology that you claim you have, David.
	He's looking desperately for someone like that.
	Why have you not gone to Dr. Greer?
	Well, I'm going to tell you an amazing story about... That we'll have to hold for the break.
	Stay right where you are.
	amazing story coming up.
	I'm going to be doing a video on the story of a man named Abul.
	Say it again!
	What is it good for?
	Absolutely not!
	Listen to me!
	I despise!
	I despise Cause it means destruction
	Of this life War means tears
	And thousands of miles of time When our sons go to fight
	And lose their lives I said war
	Good God, y'all What is it good for?
	Absolutely nothing Say it again
	What is it good for?
	Oh Lord, oh Lord What is it good for?
	Absolutely nothing Darkfell, call the wildcard line at area code 9.
	The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
	The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
	To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll free at 800-825-5033.
	From west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
	International callers may reach Art by calling your in-country Sprint Access number,
	pressing option 5, and dialing toll free, 800-893-0903.
	From coast to coast, and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	I would be willing to wager that over half of you out there right now would say,
	we're fighting a war right now.
	At least in part, and maybe a large part, for oil.
	One of the notes David Sirita has with what he sent tonight says, Royal Dutch claims global oil reserves are going to be dry by 2026.
	And he attributes this to CNN.
	Let me say that again.
	Royal Dutch shell claims global oil reserves are all going to be dry by 2026.
	and david's telling us he's got a replacement so reiterate david stumbles upon a process
	us.
	That would make a perfect fuel for interplanetary travel, certainly.
	It would make the need for oil virtually to be nearly eliminated, or almost eliminated.
	It would take over the world's energy needs.
	That's pretty big stuff.
	And as I said, Dr. Greer, for example, is searching high and low for somebody who has something just like you claim you have, David.
	Well, again, I ended up doing the Tesla Foundation, and then I formed my own company.
	I actually got a Middle Eastern partner to fund a company called the Green and Blue Corporation, and that was 1992-ish.
	We set out to close contracts for venture capital on this particular fusion technology, breakthroughs in hydrogen, breakthroughs in solar power, and We personally met.
	I mean, people like David Amberman Hall I met, who is the head of Lloyd's of London.
	I met people like George Stranahan, who owned Champion Spark Plugs and just liquidated it for half a billion.
	The Resnicks, who own the Franklin Mint.
	The Saudi Royal Family, I've sat down with princes and heads of, I mean, I've literally And did they all say no?
	They all, well, even the head of Salomon Brothers.
	What ended up happening, the very head of Salomon Brothers in New York, I got, my partner got a meeting for Dr. Magwitch, and the ones that were interested would confide in the Department of Energy and ask them for an investment decision, because this is a major decision to get involved in this, and head of DOE Fusion Program would always say no to them.
	I ended up getting this rare telephone call that no one in the company could get for like an hour on the phone with the head of the DOE fusion program, and his name was David also, but I can't remember his last name, it's been so long.
	And what did he say?
	I said, could you at least, if Congress will not fund this themselves, could you at least give our investors a green light?
	Because if we don't fund this, and somebody else does, Louise Kessler, who wrote Capital Manifesto, said the first person who does this, meaning Helium 3 Fusion, will be the first trillion dollar corporation in the world.
	That's what kind of power we're dealing with here.
	Nearly one-third of all revenue in the world is in energy, and another third are devices that are co-dependent on energy.
	If you don't change that, you are changing the economic powers of the entire planet, and that's why this is so intimidating.
	And especially something... Now, let's also point out... Help me out.
	I'm just a talk show host, David, but somewhere here, I don't know if I can put you in a position to do this, but the average person would say, look, somewhere in this, there's a hole.
	There's a big but.
	There's a danger.
	There's something that somebody like the head of the DOE would hold up and say, Wait a minute, here's why you can't do it.
	They would claim some kind of hole in the whole theory.
	They would, and... And what would that be?
	Okay, so this is where it gets really, like, this is like a football game.
	On one side you've got people like Murray Gelman saying we should fund this, whose Nobel Prize winner, Glenn Seaborg, who is basically Dr. Evil, you know, he's the head of the AEC who authorized all the nuclear testing and did, you know, was put up in lawsuits at Vanderbilt University for radiating pregnant women.
	And he's telling you this may be the answer to what he calls the environmental pollution residue problem.
	All right, David.
	My question to you is, what is the hole they claim?
	Okay, on the other side, you have all these much lower caliber physicists in Congress, way down the line, saying, well, helium-3 is unstable.
	And yet, when you get these really high caliber physicists solving the problem of stability, and the test on the Super Gray 2 at Kirtland Air Force Base,
	which were requested by the Pentagon, Major General D. Lamberson back in 1986-87,
	they're all saying that it's a go.
	The feasibility study says it's a go, the super brain physicists, the Nobel laureates are saying
	we should do it, there's a very good chance we'll succeed.
	If the amateur physicists...
	If there should be a failure, and if Helium-3 would become unstable,
	what would the result be?
	It would not produce a bomb or anything like that.
	You wouldn't have any... There's no radiation in helium-3.
	It's the most benign of all nuclear fuels.
	Our government fusion program, which uses tritium, which is, you know, H-bomb fuel, and deuterium, which is H-bomb fuel, produces, let's see, 18 MeV, and 70% of it, 60 to 80% of it, depending on the mixture, is pure Energy-carrying neutrons, which is total radioactivity.
	All right, so at the end of the day, you're telling me that all of these people said no.
	Everyone said no.
	Right.
	And the reason is economic.
	In other words, the disruption, the change to the world's economy would be too much of a shock.
	It would cost too many powerful, important, rich people too much money.
	Exactly.
	Let me give you an amazing visual here.
	Clinton Ashworth, who I interviewed, this was back in the late 80s, was supervising mechanical engineer for Pacific Gas and Electric, said a space shuttle cargo bay full of moondust has enough helium-3 in it to meet the entire energy demands of the United States for an entire year.
	One cargo bay.
	Just a little bit of moondust.
	Now, remember all the programs that were done on Alien mining operations on the moon and the other moonlets in the solar system?
	Yes.
	That is your key signature on a possible fuel source for some of these UFOs.
	What are all these scars on these, as Hoagland has pointed out, on the moon?
	In fact, Hoagland had mentioned helium, but he didn't... Alright, is it... We brought back moon rocks, right?
	Yeah, we brought back moon dust.
	So, do we know for a fact that there's excessive amounts of... Yes, we do.
	That's an absolutely established fact.
	The other source, according to the University of Wisconsin at Madison, who did a study into, you know... Wait, wait, wait.
	I want to stop, because I want to understand this.
	Are you saying that for a given amount of moon dust or rocks or whatever material you'd gather from the moon, there would be many times more recoverable helium-3?
	Is that correct?
	Then there would be here on Earth for the same?
	Oh, it's loaded with it, yes.
	And you can also breed Helium-3.
	Wait, and Earth is not loaded with it?
	No, it's not.
	It's rare on Earth.
	It's an isotope that you have to manufacture.
	It exists in deep ocean vents.
	There are these ocean vents that are way deep under the ocean.
	Yes.
	And you can find Helium-3 down there.
	But the best source we know of in the universe, sorry, in the solar system, is the moon.
	The moon!
	The moon does.
	Maybe that's what... I mean, I... I had always heard, David, that the moon rocks were unremarkable.
	That they were virtually undistinguishable from rocks on Earth.
	I've seen them at the Smithsonian University.
	Undistinguishable?
	No, they're a little different looking.
	They're kind of, you know... I mean, a rock is a rock is a rock, but there's something different about them.
	Moondust is different than the rocks, I believe.
	I mean, they're not quite the same thing.
	There's quite a bit of moondust, although not as much as they thought.
	As I recall, when they landed, they thought there was some chance they might actually sink in moondust, and that didn't occur.
	But there was, nevertheless, dust there, and you're saying it has a very high concentration of helium-3.
	Very high.
	It's loaded.
	Enough so that it would make it financially feasible, if we were using that as fuel, to bring it from the moon?
	Yeah, it would be very feasible.
	In fact, they actually did studies into that.
	Clinton Ashworth at PG&E was doing studies.
	And, incidentally, when I brought Edison, John Bryson had a bunch of his junior physicists.
	And you should have seen these guys.
	I mean, this guy's name was Glenn Duckett, Dr. Glenn Duckett, and he was probably in his late 20s.
	And I bring him into a room with Murray Gelman and Glenn Seaborg and Magwitch, and his jaw is dropping.
	I mean, these guys are his mentors.
	And he's supposed to come in and evaluate for Edison, helium-3 fusion, how it works, and is it feasible.
	And in the end, Edison said, and this was the final word from Bryson's office, we don't really need a new energy source right now.
	We've got all the electric power we can use.
	And we're not going to do anything.
	That was the final word from Edison.
	And it was just ridiculous.
	I mean, every single person said no.
	And to see Al Gore personally knew about the hearing and the date, and had no interest in showing up to even learn about it.
	It was terrifying to me.
	And even Greenpeace, their head nuclear scientist, Eric First, was not even interested in the conversation.
	Meanwhile, NASA, Earl Van Landingham, head of propulsion, power, and energy at NASA, and James Fletcher are begging Congress, please give us the money.
	We only need $10-20 million.
	Okay, well I can actually...
	See how that might develop and why NASA would have a particular interest in it, certainly.
	Sure.
	Sure.
	Aside from the private sector energy sources here on Earth, they would have an unusual, peculiar interest in this, absolutely.
	But you're saying they got shut down just as quickly as you did.
	They got shut down.
	Because if it would be developed for NASA, there would then be an immediate private sector You know, everything rolls from NASA downhill to industry, it seems like, and so that's what would happen.
	It would get out, so they couldn't let that happen, is what you're saying.
	Well, there's another angle, and it's a completely different angle on the possible conspiracy against it, is that Magritch told me in Russia there was an actual moratorium against all research into true non-radioactive nuclear energy.
	The very first nuclear energy-producing experiment ever done was done by John Cockroft and Ernest T.S.
	Walton, British scientists.
	They won the Nobel Prize for bombarding lithium with protons, I believe it was, and they produced a non-radioactive nuclear reaction.
	That was before Einstein wrote the famous letter to President Roosevelt in 1938 urging the fission of uranium.
	And then what happened after 38 is, of course, the Manhattan Project started to mature.
	A young, 26-year-old physicist named Alfred O. C. Nier discovers the explosive uranium isotope.
	And somehow, Glenn Seaborg and MacMillan win the Nobel Prize for discovering plutonium, when really it was probably Alfred O. C. Nier, another German scientist.
	And then the Manhattan Project starts, and we all know what happens.
	That's where it all went.
	There was actually, prior to the bomb, the first nuclear reactions were non-radioactive, but why didn't we put any funding into it?
	The reason, this is where I'm going to get to the answer here, and that is that there was a fear that if utilities knew, and there was a major announcement, like when cold fusion broke it was all over the world, if helium-3 fusion was a success, Every utility company in the world would buy it, for one, because it's dirt cheap, there's no radioactivity, power would be pennies per kilowatt hour, and hydrogen, the hydrogen fuel economy would be very economical because you have a cheap electricity and you can make cheap hydrogen.
	And what ends up happening is they say, well, if you don't have a neutron source in your nuclear reactor, non-radioactive nuclear power plants, how would DOD get its Weapons grade plutonium, because they basically use breeder reactors to breed plutonium.
	And further, we say, okay, we have enough plutonium, we have enough nuclear warheads now, we don't need any more plutonium, but... Ta-da!
	There's another answer.
	The neutron bomb, the hydrogen bomb, uses tritium.
	And tritium, you have to, you know, breed it.
	It has a half-life of twelve and a half years, so it decays very rapidly.
	In other words, it very quickly becomes uns...
	It's basically useless.
	You can't really use it anymore, so you have to keep replacing it.
	Therefore, you need a neutron source to keep breeding more tritium, and that means you need radioactive power plants.
	So, it's a possibility, and again, I can't prove this, that DOD overruled DOE's decision on this and said, we are going to continue with the moratorium against this because we need our radioactive source for building nuclear weapons fuels.
	Why not both?
	Or why not both?
	The oil companies and this theory.
	I mean, there's really no logical answer.
	There you are in Congress with handfuls of Nobel laureates.
	Handfuls of them.
	And Maxwell Prize winning physicists like Norman Rostocker.
	And the Maxwell Prize is higher than the Nobel Prize in physics.
	Tell you an interesting story, David.
	It's amazing.
	And no funding.
	So anyway, the physicist retires.
	He goes on to bomb detection, which he hired me in 1995-96 to do bomb detection, and went on to solve the riddle for better airport security and better bomb detection, and he won't even do fusion anymore.
	He's so tired of the conspiracy to silence him and to stop the movement.
	All right.
	I'll tell you an interesting story, David.
	When I was 13, I was visiting a man who lived down the street from me in a place called Media, Pennsylvania.
	That's where I lived at the time.
	And the fellow who was turning me into a ham operator was also a physicist.
	And he taught me the basics of electronics and electricity and helped me get my license and all the rest of it.
	He was an amazing man named Dr. Paul Weiss.
	Paul Weiss.
	Paul Weiss.
	On ways to get nuclear reactions from non-conventional nuclear materials, from other types of materials.
	And I recall he spent quite a bit of time talking to me about that.
	So that work, that would have been about, well let's see, 45, 48, About 1958 is when that would have been, and we obviously were working very hard and looking at other things at that point.
	And of course, that was long after we exploded the bomb.
	What do you think happened to that research?
	Well, that's exactly the point.
	I mean, you can bombard lithium.
	There's a number of different fuels that are very low in radioactivity, although helium-3 is undoubtedly the holy grail.
	So what do you think is going to happen, David?
	Do you think this Holy Grail is going to be unveiled as we get to the last of the oil?
	And by the way, was that a correct statement that Royal Dutch Shell... Yeah, I always talk... There was CNN on a couple of weeks ago, including the BBC, followed up on this and confirmed the same report that the Royal Dutch Shell and all the other oil companies have underestimated the global oil reserves.
	And with China and all of the new... the extra consumption of oil on a global level, we are basically They finished cheap oil in 2026, and then we have to rely on extracting it from tar sands and all these other much more expensive ways to get oil.
	Well, it says here, Royal Dutch claims global oil reserves will be dry by 2026.
	Yeah, they did say that.
	They actually said dry.
	Yeah.
	I couldn't believe this report.
	And then it's like, okay, goodnight, you're on your own.
	We don't have a follow-up, and neither do we have an answer.
	And I was just shaking my head going, you know, I spent my life devoted to a physicist and other physicists who have solutions for the crisis at hand, and there's just, there's no funding.
	In fact, I'm doing a documentary film right now on this project in New Mexico called Angels Nest, and we're looking at all of the sustainable housing development models that are using solar power, wind, and hydrogen, And how to get your home off the grid, in contrast to existing ways that we produce electricity, such as nuclear.
	And I've interviewed people at nuclear power plants, like at Palo Verde.
	So do you think by 2026, or sometime just prior, they're going to pull the Holy Grail from its temporary abandonment place and fire it up?
	Well, it's not that easy, because this is so amazing.
	People like Einstein and Tesla You know, this happens if we're lucky every 50 years.
	If you're lucky, the universe will produce, or a world will produce, a genius.
	And then, if there is a true genius...
	They have to get funding to to be prolific.
	That's right.
	And if they don't, you don't fund these guys, you may be dry and crawling through the desert for another 50 or 100 years before another genius is born.
	Well, you might not fund them in 2004, but you might in 2024.
	You might.
	You never know.
	But Maglich is, you know, he's focused on bomb detection now.
	He's Unless someone throws him a check with no questions asked, he won't even talk to you anymore, because he's so burnt out.
	Alright, hold it right there, David.
	So there you have it.
	The whole thing, once again, there's a viable solution for our energy, if it's all true, and helium-3 really is relatively stable, and we're not going to touch it.
	At least not until about 2024, or just before we absolutely use up the last drop of oil.
	My guest is David Sirita, and we're about to delve into other areas.
	Ufology, for example.
	So don't touch that diet.
	I'm telling you it's gonna be the end when we're down.
	How high will gas prices go this summer?
	Be it sight, sound, smell, or touch, there's something inside that we need so much.
	The sight of a touch, or the scent of a sound, or the strength of an arc we reach deep in the ground.
	The wonder of flowers to be covered and then to burst up, through tarmac, through the sun again.
	Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing?
	To lie in a meadow and hear the grass sing?
	To have all these things in a memory store?
	And they use them to count us to five Right, right as you saw
	Take this place off the street Just call me
	Fine, take a pillow, drink my rice, have a seat, it's all free.
	I've had this dream for years, it's been so hard just to let my feet in.
	I'm gonna do it my life, my life Up, I go, I go, I go
	Wanna take a ride?
	To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
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	We're about to get updates on the Mexican UFO case, the Venice UFO case, and then UFOs in general.
	Because I think David has a feeling that the big one's about to happen.
	with Art Bell.
	Coming right up.
	Alright.
	David, let's rock a little bit.
	Let's get updates on a couple of UFO cases.
	One in Mexico, the other in Venice.
	What can you tell us?
	Okay, well, actually, for the one in Mexico, and this is a bit of a twist, but let's go back to the night of March 12, 2001, when I was on your show with James Oberg, and the moment Oberg and I were arguing about whether the cameras on the shuttle, the black and white cameras, could see the invisible ultraviolet and infrared.
	Oberg said it couldn't, and I had absolutely confirmed this with the head of astrochemistry at NASA, Joseph Newt, that the camera could see near ultraviolet and infrared.
	And that was the moment, right down to the second, that the internet and the satellite turned off and we were booted off the air.
	Yes.
	Now, before we go to Mexico again, let's go to, okay, Dan Aykroyd was producing a show called Out There in 2000 on the SyFy channel.
	He told me, this was days before I was to be flown to New York for my show, he was interviewing Stephen Greer, and lo and behold, during the taping, they were taping as if live, James Olberg calls in.
	Good ol' James Olberg at NASA.
	And Olberg calls in and was really upset, Dan said.
	I mean, I just interviewed Aykroyd for an hour and 20 minutes for my next film, Evidence 2.
	Yeah, and everybody will recall I had Dan Aykroyd on the show with you as well.
	That was December 5, 2001.
	So, then what happens is, Aykroyd tells me in the interview the other day, I was interviewing him on the set, and he said, within 24 hours, he was standing outside during one of the breaks, and over, he said, was very disturbed by Stephen Greer, the fact that he had so many credible Air Force pilots and astronauts like Cooper testifying to having seen UFOs.
	Ackroyd said he was on his cell phone, this is kind of funny, he was talking to Britney Spears, and he turned and looked and he saw a black sedan, long sedan, with men standing outside, black sunglasses, black suits, And with these earpieces in.
	And he said they beckoned him with a look of total intimidation.
	And Dan, Brittany said something to him.
	He said he turns his head.
	You mean like, want to take a ride?
	Want to take a ride.
	And then he turns and looks back and the car is gone.
	And he said there's no way it could have hopped over the other cars.
	The men were standing outside the car.
	There's no way in a turn of a neck that they could have disappeared.
	And he is convinced that These guys were some sort of inter-dimensional, who knows, limousine.
	And then what happens?
	Maybe it was just an effect of talking to Britney.
	Well no, watch what happens next.
	Within 24 hours, his show is cancelled.
	Now remember, we had Oberg on with us, and the satellite turned off, and the internet turned off.
	Oh yes, yes, yes.
	And Ackroyd has Oberg on his show with Steven Greer.
	Poof!
	The whole show is cancelled.
	Syfy tells him the show is cancelled.
	In fact, they tied him up in law suit so he couldn't even sell it to another network.
	Now, isn't that interesting?
	I was supposed to fly to New York two days later to do my show with Dan.
	I remember the cancellation.
	I remember the shock of the cancellation.
	Dan and Peter Ackroyd are both disturbed to this day.
	I think, I told Dan, I think it was an apparition for his eyes only to let him know that someone at a higher level Head shut down the show, because this wasn't mere entertainment.
	This was Stephen Greer with Project Disclosure, and this was, you know, me with the NASA stuff.
	So, you know, and then, okay, now let's go to Mexico.
	All of a sudden, Mexico happens, we have, um, let's look at the science on this, and it's pretty easy.
	Well, describe for everybody what happened in Mexico.
	Okay, in Mexico, what happened, I got a call from a friend of mine named David Sadler, who ran for Congress in Illinois, and he kicked me off to Jaime Muson, Doing this huge press conference in the early part of the month of May, and I notified Bob Tarlow, senior producer at Fox News.
	Tarlow gets the tape and puts it on Fox National within six hours.
	I mean, it was on National Fox.
	That footage was everywhere.
	And then all of a sudden, all the other stations followed pursuit, and I went on with George Noory that night to talk about it.
	Now, what is peculiar about the Mexico case and why it's so relevant to my work with the NASA UFOs is, once again, we have 11 UFOs confirmed on forward-looking infrared cameras, and three were detected on radar.
	The remaining eight were not.
	And they surrounded their aircraft, intimidating the pilots.
	And so let's look at, I have a whole, a very deep investigation into the Mexico case.
	This really seems like almost a smoking gun kind of case.
	It's absolutely a smoking gun because you have no visual confirmation.
	And that is the same as the NASA tapes.
	We have translucent disks of white that are very large, perhaps two to three miles in diameter, only visible on the ultraviolet cameras.
	But again, with respect to the Mexican case, where has this gone?
	Because so many of these things just get dropped like they went off a cliff and you don't hear anything else.
	I was interviewing, again for evidence, to a man named Ken Stork up in Denver, who was U.S.
	Air Force retired, and he said... Stork used to work in drug enforcement.
	He said Space Command had picked up these UFOs All the way down in, I believe it was Venezuela.
	And we notified the Mexican Air Force.
	Let me just clarify for people what Space Command is.
	Space Command has also satellite cameras that observe the Earth 24 hours a day in the visible wavelengths from the color red to violet.
	They also look in ultraviolet, near and far, and they look in infrared.
	We didn't know whether they were visible or not, but we got a signal.
	We notified their Air Force.
	So that means they flew all the way from South America through Central America into Mexico.
	They launched their drug enforcement jets that have U.S.
	four-looking infrared cameras, which really, I have to clarify here, because Four-looking infrared are not ordinary infrared cameras.
	They incorporate two wavelengths of infrared, low frequency and high frequency infrared.
	They fuse them together so you get a two-dimensional infrared image with tremendous resolution.
	David, I've been sitting in a Blackhawk and I've played with that radar.
	Oh, you have?
	Oh, yes, I have.
	And it's remarkable.
	I mean, it's Actually, for those of you who can't imagine it, it's really the next thing to a photograph.
	It's almost like looking at a negative photograph.
	And you can make out shapes of human beings, shapes of aircraft that are on the runway.
	If a car is driving past on a highway near the runway, you can see that.
	Everything in proper proportion.
	You have quite a clear view.
	Incredibly clear.
	Beyond any normal infrared camera.
	Absolutely.
	I researched through DOD and we have new, new infrared cameras that, four looking infrared cameras that are so far beyond the ones we sold Mexico, it would, it would, I mean, really just make people's eyes pop wide open.
	Sure.
	So here's the deal.
	Now, remember we have, okay, a temperature, they're flying at what, 13,000 feet.
	It's minus, according to Jaime Misson's report, it's minus 26 degrees up there, which is easy to understand at that altitude.
	Then you get this infrared signature, very clear.
	In fact, the one that they target in on, it's called Advanced Target for Looking Infrared, you'll see the little X's, they actually target the object.
	And that's for our military response.
	Um, you can look at one of them with what they actually, they square around.
	You'll see a long cylinder-like thing with a round, you know, bulb or light shining from it.
	So you can see the thing has structure.
	But everyone is duped in this case because you have mass gone invisible.
	Now I go back to my UFO sighting in Berkeley, 6768, and after 20 minutes of watching this shiny metallic disk, we saw it blink out.
	It just disappeared.
	Um, so the question is, where did it go?
	And let's go even further back.
	Let's go back to, in fact, this gentleman came to my attention after evidence won the case for NATO UFOs came out and he saw it.
	Trevor James Constable is the author of The Cosmic Pulse of Life.
	Have you ever heard of him?
	No.
	Okay.
	1976, he publishes his book.
	Trevor Constable is a retired British naval officer from World War II, whom Starr didn't notice Invisible objects showing up on radar during World War II.
	And one case he cites in his book is called the Nansei Shoto case, where off the coast of Okinawa, Japan, our aircraft carriers saw on radar what we thought were 300 enemy aircraft doing 700 miles an hour.
	It was either 300 enemy aircraft or one whopping object.
	That would get your attention.
	That would get your attention.
	And of course, we couldn't do 700 miles an hour in World War II, because that's just beyond the sound barrier.
	And we didn't break it yet.
	So we thought the Russians or the Germans were going to corroborate.
	So we launched our fighters up on a clear day.
	Very good visibility.
	Nothing is there.
	Yet radar on the ship is saying we have confirmation you're right on top of it.
	Nothing there.
	Now those ghosts would show up on radar from time to time.
	So Trevor Constable goes out with a 35mm camera and he decides he's going to start taking pictures in the invisible using High-speed infrared film without red filter, you get near-UV sensitivity, plus infrared.
	Sure.
	He goes out in 1958 where a man named George Van Tassel is allegedly psychically channeling extraterrestrials, and I know that sounds kind of hokey, but he took pictures all around Van Tassel, and he had a large audience, and UFOs, a translucent, large disk of white, oriented at steep angles away from the camera with black holes in the center, Identical to the UFOs in the STS-75 mission show up on his film.
	And that's why he got a hold of me.
	I mean, through my friend Luke Gatto.
	Luke Gatto introduced me to Constable and said, you have to read his book.
	And I'm like, oh, it's so old, I don't want to read it.
	And I finally read it and Trevor Constable sees my video and says, we have to get together.
	When I saw his photos, I was just like, oh my God, I've got NASA in checkmate.
	I mean, these are...
	The argument at NASA on the STS-75 was we're looking at out-of-focus ARRI disks, which when a near-field piece of dust floats close to the camera, it produces this blob of out-of-focus light around it.
	Well, an ARRI disk cannot turn on a steep angle away from the camera like you'll see in Constable's photos, but they still have the black holes in the center, just like the ones that I cited in STS-75 and the other missions.
	It looks like we have double confirmation of the same phenomena, and some of the objects that showed up on Constable's photography he believes are biological organisms.
	Didn't somebody in the Mexican situation actually come out and almost make an official statement, or did make an official statement, suggesting that this was absolute proof of extraterrestrial beings visiting Earth?
	It's got to be absolute proof.
	I mean, to me, To me, what they're doing, to explain Mexico properly, I believe, and I have to make this simple for the audience, that because Einstein's Law prohibits mass or spacecraft from attaining the speed of light, because as you go faster, inertia pushes on you, and you get heavier, and the heavier you get, the more energy it takes to go a little bit faster.
	In subatomic particle accelerators, where we test acceleration on protons and muons, you know, the components of atoms, We have got protons at Fermilab in Chicago up to 99.99% of speed of light.
	So, how much energy does it take to get a mass that fast?
	Well, it takes a trillion electron volts of energy.
	A nuclear bomb releases 200 million using plutonium.
	200 million electron volts, so a trillion is 5,000 times more energy than the bomb.
	Right.
	Now, when I asked, at the end of the long conversation with Earl Van Lanningham at NASA about fusion, I popped a big question on him and I said, have you guys made contact with extraterrestrials?
	He said, no.
	When you consider Einstein's Law, the amount of energy it would take to get a spacecraft to be doing 99% the speed of light, he said the energy signal radiating from that craft would be so massive, it would be 1 trillion electron volts, would be so massive that every amateur radio astronomer in the world would see the signal Moving towards Earth well in advance of the arrival of the spacecraft, and he said, we have never seen anything like that yet.
	Now he's right, because you could never cover this up.
	Every amateur astronomer, it would be like the movie Contact.
	You would see a whopping, you know, a terabyte signal, a trillion bytes, beyond the Jansky signal, the gigawatt signal.
	They're seeing in the movie.
	I mean, a trillion is so far beyond that.
	Yeah, if it's fully a physical, real manifestation, then yes.
	Yes, that's the point.
	Now, in my theory, I say it's impossible for too many reasons.
	One, no visible materials can produce energy levels that high.
	And even if you could get a spacecraft to even do one-tenth the speed of light, imagine the G-forces on even a subtle turn.
	They're going to crush the craft and the pilot.
	Even like, say you have to steer out of the way of an asteroid or an incoming moonlet, you're finished.
	The G-forces on a quick turn like that are going to destroy you going that fast.
	Imagine if you hit a rock floating in space.
	It's just going to puncture holes in you and blow you to pieces.
	But, my theory, I reverse the table.
	I actually get into this very deeply, which is very hard to do unless you have paper and a chalkboard in front of you.
	I believe they convert Right.
	And once a spacecraft is as light as a photon, guess how much energy it takes to do the speed of light?
	Nowhere near as much.
	Nothing.
	A couple of volts.
	Because we can send radio photons out at a few volts throughout space.
	Quite true.
	And so that would mean that NASA could not detect a signal.
	This is the fundamental point of why mainstream physicists do not take the UFO phenomenon seriously, because they don't see the energy signal tagged on to the incoming object.
	They see no energy signal.
	But if you have a zero energy signal and your craft is pure waveform energy, and I demonstrate this in my work very clearly, we'll get into the Venice UFO in a minute too.
	Yeah, the problem is they are here.
	They are here.
	Mexico happened.
	Mexico happened.
	And if their craft are pure ultraviolet wavelengths, ultraviolet wavelengths are very, they're higher in temperature than visible light.
	Now imagine minus 26 degrees in 26,000 feet, and this high temperature signal imprints that humidity.
	Actually, according to Hamid Nassan's report, it was quite humid.
	That humidity in the atmosphere gets hot.
	And an infrared camera sees it like an infrared beacon.
	So you get an image print, like a fingerprint, against the atmosphere in the infrared.
	But the real UFO is way up higher.
	It's up in the X-ray, gamma-ray, ultraviolet.
	It's way up there.
	That's what I believe happened.
	And that, when we look at the radar report, now radar is microwaves.
	We bounce microwaves out.
	We saw three of the Mexican UFOs on radar, but the remaining eight were not.
	Now that is perfect!
	Showing you how they have, some of them are in translucent mass states, where the microwave photons just pass right through them like butter and you get no signal, and some of the others are in very low mass states, but still invisible, and some of the photons, the radar photons bounce off of them and you get a signal.
	So they're basically telling you, I mean if you read the signs you can see exactly what they're doing.
	You have to become ultimately so frustrated with the idea of increasing energy on mass propulsion to come to the conclusion that they're doing it a different way.
	And the different way is they're not, I don't believe they're doing what Bob Lazar says.
	Bob Lazar's theory says is they are building their own gravity generators using element 115.
	which element 115 plutonium is like 97 so 115 has more visible energy than plutonium
	so he's increasing energy on mass and in fact if you increase
	an object or spacecraft gravity you have to increase its mass because that's how
	you increase gravity.
	There have been some rather tantalizing stories recently about
	element 115.
	You're aware of that?
	I know.
	I'm very aware.
	At Berkeley, they finally duplicated it.
	And what's really disturbing to me is Bob Lazar's formula is so close to how they actually did it at Berkeley.
	In fact, they're on to Element 116 now.
	Yes, I know.
	Hold on, David.
	We're up here at the bottom of the hour.
	That's all true.
	Lazar told that story so many years ago, about Element 115, and yet here come the stories about Element 115.
	So what do you think?
	think they're here, we can't see them, but perhaps in other spectrums and other vibration
	states you can.
	So, let's go.
	So, we've got a bit of a delay.
	So, we're going to go ahead and stop.
	Do talk with Art Bell.
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	International callers There is no doubt about it.
	We're getting a sudden swarm of UFOs.
	A real swarm.
	Whatever you want to call it.
	A bevy.
	A swarm.
	and dialing toll free 800-893-0903.
	From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	There is no doubt about it, we're getting a sudden swarm of UFOs.
	A real swarm, whatever you wanna call it.
	A bevy, a swarm, an invasion.
	I don't know, whatever you wanna call it, we're getting an awful lot of it all at once.
	And so I guess you've got to wonder, and you're entitled to wonder, whether this means we're headed towards some sort of, I don't know, final conclusion, some climax to all of this.
	Could it be coming?
	will ask as a man who has been researching this for
	many years now David I do want to ask you this I mean, we are in, whatever you want to call it right now, you know, the times are hot.
	I mean, I get calls from Whitley, from everybody else who watches the number of events going on and the magnitude of the events going on, and everybody's saying it.
	You know, we're having a major ongoing event right now.
	Do you think Do you think all this is headed towards some sort of resolution, climax, understanding, whatever, of what it is that's been happening to us all these years?
	Are we about to get there?
	It really seems like that.
	In fact, I've been telling all my friends that.
	I mean, you have the Mexico March 5th, you have the Venice UFOs, which I'm personally involved with, which were just May 2nd, and another one on the 26th in Venice.
	There were two sightings by Patrick Duskert, who has Clear video footage of a metallic disc, and you can see the same wave distortion, the pulsating waves that you see in the NASA UFOs, which I think is the secret to their propulsion systems.
	And you have the ones up in Sonora, which I'm about to personally go up and investigate.
	Well, tell me a little about Venice.
	Well, Venice is amazing.
	I mean, it's, you know, this guy walking home, walking to the beach or from the beach with his girlfriend.
	He sees this thing that looks like a hubcap flying up there.
	And then he's like, wait a minute, I mean, Patrick's like, oh my god, hubcaps don't fly, and what's it doing up there?
	And there are other people looking up at it, and well, he tells his girlfriend to maintain a position on it while he goes and gets the video camera, runs back, and starts shooting this thing.
	And it's really one of the most amazing pieces of footage for me, because I feel like I'm looking back at the same UFO I saw in 67-68 in Berkeley.
	And it's got the same properties, the shimmering steel.
	I'm informed your website is down.
	Do you have video of this on your website?
	Which website?
	LAUFO or... Oh, well, let's see which one.
	You can see this on LAUFO.com, I think.
	Really?
	Let me go to LAUFO, because that's going to be my new site for the new... We're doing a whole documentary on this right now, which will be out by the end of the month, hopefully.
	Okay, I'm on your site, UFONASA.com.
	Oh, that down?
	Uh, that's what I heard.
	Really?
	Now, let me see if I can bring it back.
	No, I can bring it back.
	It's back up now.
	Okay.
	So, anyway, you're suggesting there is video of this, and what's to be seen in the video?
	Describe it.
	Well, the LA, the Venice UFO has, again, the evidence of the strobing wave formation that you will see consistent in this UFO phenomenon.
	Again, I think all throughout the UFO phenomenon, you will see evidence of the zero mass concept.
	What I call a zero mass spaceship doesn't mean it doesn't... The craft does not have photons, neutrons, and electrons in its atomic structure.
	I believe the frequency of the wave state of mass transforms to a state that resembles that of photons.
	And once spaceships are made into pure light energy, and the pilots, They can suddenly turn on a dime, which you'll see in the Evidence UFO tapes.
	Whatever they are, and whatever their composition and propulsion and all the rest of it, we all want to know what's going on.
	And you've investigated for years.
	When we finally do find out what's going on, what kind of revelation do you expect possible, David?
	Well, the first revelation, and we look at, you know, here we are coming to the end of our oil reserves.
	It's a terrifying moment for us.
	We have to get on to hydrogen and all these other fuels.
	We did not spend proper research funding on all that, on the breakthroughs in solar power, the nuclear fusion, and we're sitting here with nothing.
	And these UFOs are beckoning us with an energy solution and a propulsion technology that could revolutionize life for us on Earth.
	So that is the first thing, I think, that they beckon us with, is that possibility, if we could reverse-engineer it.
	Why would you believe that they would benignly land and hand over to us a technology we may not be ready to proceed with for any number of reasons, or handle, or who knows what all?
	In fact, why would you even believe they're benign?
	And do you?
	Well, really, I mean, those are huge questions, but I mean, really, we have no proof that they're benign, we have no proof that they're harmful.
	Well, there are those who would make arguments, David, that when you take people against their will, that that's not a benign act.
	Okay, well, let's look at that.
	Let's look at what we do when we go into a frog pond in biology class, and we pull a frog out, and we spread it on the table, and cut it open.
	To them, we're just biology.
	Well, if that's all we are, if we're nothing more than frogs to be cut open on the table, then we as frogs have reason to be really concerned.
	I mean, from a Buddhist perspective, you can't even cut the frog open on the table.
	You should love all beings equally.
	You know, yes, I would agree.
	Yeah, that is not, you know, a friendly thing to do when you're looking halfway across the universe for intelligent life.
	But what would we do?
	Say, you know, the Mars lunar probe, you know, the Mars probes actually found evidence of life.
	Would we take samples?
	Would we take one home and analyze it?
	I mean, what would we do?
	I don't, I'm not 100% convinced that abduction is necessarily from their intentions.
	It's a malevolent act, but from our side, it's absolutely malevolent.
	Well, we have to look at things from our side.
	In other words, if they regard us as we would an ant farm or something awful like that, then we have a lot to fear.
	We have a lot to fear, sure, and it would not be benign, not by our point of view.
	Not by our standard.
	But, on the other hand, if they do have An energy technology far beyond ours, and I believe we're close at understanding how their craft work.
	We're very close, and I believe John Hutchison, who's a friend of mine also, who is very close also to understanding and true anti-gravity.
	In fact, Hutchison has been able to get steel to disappear.
	Well, okay.
	David, I know I'm going to be asking questions here that you probably have no answer to, but I really have to ask, since you've looked at this so hard and for so long, why Why would they be present, and perhaps have been present, in the world since 1947, and maybe long before that, for all we know?
	Do you think it started, by the way, with Roswell?
	Well, when we see these ancient Middle Eastern paintings, or sorry, Middle Age paintings, with the UFOs in the background, you know, this has got to be going on, and we think of the wheels of Ezekiel, and the visions of Enoch, This has got to be going on for a long time, but I think we are coming to a head.
	There are so many UFOs right now.
	In fact, there's more video evidence in the last couple of months than I've ever seen in my life.
	I mean, Turkey, Iran, you have Oregon, you have Sonora, California, you have the Venice UFO, you have Mexico.
	Yep.
	I get the picture, and I understand what you're saying, but I want to kind of try to grasp a little bit of the best understanding I can of what they might be about.
	And if they've been visiting us, maybe a bad word, observing us, or whatever it is they've been doing, I mean we've got abductions, we've got crop circles that we might attribute to them, we've got a lot of things going on that I have looked at very carefully and I don't necessarily, from our perspective, consider them to be friendly.
	So if we're headed toward a meat Of some kind.
	I guess I would ask, what do you think they've been doing all this time?
	Just watching?
	Somehow participating?
	Or what?
	Well, I mean, it would be very easy for them to tune into our radio and television broadcast and see what we're doing down here.
	Yes.
	So, for one, they could see that we're not, you know, we're destroying our planet.
	We're not a very evolved species technologically yet.
	We do a lot of beautiful things down here.
	I mean, just imagine.
	I was talking to Ackroyd about this in the interview I was just doing with him, for evidence, too, about the music.
	I mean, if they tuned into... And by the way, I love the music you play.
	Those little clips of music, they come on between the breaks, just in that half-in, half-out, you know, half-asleep state.
	I just... It's just dreamland for me.
	It just puts me in the most incredible state of mind.
	I love the music.
	And I think, well, they would listen to our music.
	I mean, They might be very curious about it.
	I don't necessarily think they're malevolent.
	I mean, they haven't actually confronted us yet, but it does seem like things are coming to a head here.
	Well, it may be because of R.A.P.
	Maybe.
	You see, we're sending R.A.P.
	up.
	We're sending R.A.P.
	up.
	And if anything will produce a negative result for humanity, it's R.A.P.
	When we expose plants to rap music, apparently they shrivel up and die.
	Who knows what rap is doing in space?
	Well, if they're making judgments based on so-called music.
	But then they would also listen to the blues and they'd listen to classical.
	You think so, huh?
	I would tell an extraterrestrial civilization just on its tonality if they couldn't understand a rap song.
	Tonality?
	Well, in that case, there's going to be one more rap song and the death ray is going to shine.
	Eminem is going to be the cause of it all.
	But all this time and all this observation, question mark, do you think that's what it is?
	Observation, David?
	I would like to think that going into the ancient Sumerian stuff and going into the wheels of Ezekiel, that we have A species out there, yes, there might be some that would like to take over our planet, but I would like to think that there are angels, I mean, this may be a fantasy, it may be, hopefully it happens, that will intervene and save us on their behalf, because they are our ancient creators.
	I believe that if we created in a lab experiment, say, we will get to the point where we can do interstellar travel, if we can attain the speed of light in the next 100 years, 200 years, We will have the ability to seed life and seed civilizations on other planets.
	Perhaps so, but you said something that you just ran right over, and you can't just run right over it.
	You said in a fast sentence, you included, they are our creators.
	Our creators.
	Yes.
	Now, what if we created life on another planet?
	Wouldn't we want to come back and check on it once and for all?
	Absolutely.
	Why?
	So, you believe That that's what they're doing.
	They're checking on their creation.
	Their little lab experiment.
	They started this civilization millennia ago and they're just checking in from time to time to see how are the humans coming along, you know?
	Like, they started us out.
	But this is a very serious matter.
	Very serious matter.
	And you can't just run over it that quickly if they are our creators.
	And I'd like to understand how you came to believe that aside from the fact that there is As you point out, there are cave drawings that would indicate perhaps people who wore spacesuits, or the equivalent, were here.
	I mean, there's all kinds of intriguing stuff inscribed everywhere, including on stone.
	And Zechariah Fitchin's work.
	So, what convinced you that they are our creators?
	Well, I can't say that the particular ones who are visiting us right now, I've had A number of my own mystical experiences, but that's another subject.
	For myself, I'm convinced that there are certain extraterrestrials here who have the greatest intentions for us.
	Akroyd proposes the most logical way to do this, and that is to have a proper, you know, landing, and form, and exchange of information, rather than just coming in, slamming in, and abducting people without, you know, All right, well, while we're on that subject, the premise proffered in Taken, that series on TV, and not just born there, but really taken from ufology, is that there is a tampering with our genetic structure going on.
	Perhaps for their benefit, or if you are the half-full glass of what kind of guy then for our benefit or maybe mutual
	benefit or God knows what else I mean all kinds of possibilities but they are tampering
	with or changing everything is oriented toward reproduction all the stories
	reproduction and genetic works now where do you what do you believe in that area well ok let me just
	put myself in the perspective of the creator.
	I don't mean the Supreme Creator of the Universe.
	I mean perhaps those who biologically engineered us, or co-engineered us.
	Yes.
	And I said, well, you know, they're not really figuring this out too well, and they seem to be making a lot of mistakes.
	Maybe they're not wired right, you know.
	And I'm speaking to myself here, too.
	I'm not speaking like I've got it all together.
	That would mean they would have to correct a deficiency in the program, in the genetic code on the human species, to wonder why they're so destructive.
	Why are they so bent on building bombs and going to wars with each other and blowing each other up and polluting the planet to no end?
	Yet they also do a lot of beautiful things, I would say.
	Incredible music, incredible art, amazing things are being done down here with science.
	And I would be, as an observer, I would be quite proud of the human race in many aspects.
	Mark, aren't they natural results of the free will gene?
	Well, I think that, here's, I mean, in a nutshell, what I really believe on a deeper level is that we, when, going back to the parable of the fall into the Garden of Eden, we partook of a knowledge called good and evil.
	And good and evil to me is a conflict.
	It's a duality.
	It's conflict by its nature.
	If you ingest good and evil, you ingest conflict.
	And if a billion souls take in the knowledge of good and evil, when you have a conflict in your life, the first thing we usually do is we try to solve it.
	And by defining good and evil egotistically, individually, we all came up with different versions of what is good and what is evil.
	My religion is right and yours is wrong.
	My philosophy or political system is right and yours is wrong.
	And because, by the nature of good and evil, it is a conflict initially, it is a lower vibration than what we call unity or oneness.
	So, in oneness there is no duality, there is no conflict.
	But, when you take in the knowledge of conflict, you go into a state that is lower than oneness, so you fall into a dual state of mind.
	And all the great mystics have said that we When we attain enlightenment, we're going beyond duality.
	We're actually going beyond the internal state of conflict.
	I believe that internal conflict caused our DNA to become electrically separate.
	Imagine this one field of light, and then all of a sudden there's this swirling polarity of positive and negative, and that swirling energy builds a force field, or egg, A barrier around the soul shielding it out of the oneness or the connectedness to the universe.
	And in that separate state, it malfunctions.
	It lives in a state of conflict.
	It interprets good and evil differently than all of its neighbors, so they're always disagreeing and fighting.
	And I think that will eventually, if you know how a cell entropies and dies, the way cell structures reach entropy and die is they are cut off.
	They no longer Receive inflows of energy.
	And when a system no longer is open, it eventually runs out of energy and collapses in on itself.
	It fails.
	It dies.
	So, our DNA, if it's coded the same way as that same duality that we all face, it will eventually malfunction.
	It will fall apart.
	Until it reunites itself with a higher, more unified field of energy.
	As in a hybrid?
	Well, no, as in... Well, that's a reunification with that other part of the genetic structure, isn't it?
	Well, that's kind of... If you're meaning from the movie Taken, becoming part of... Not necessarily.
	I'm just talking generally now about the stories we get of abductees.
	Right, yeah.
	There's the idea of the one mind.
	I mean, the collective mind, which is, you know, to me is quite scary, actually.
	To be controlled by a single mind or entity And everyone lives in a dictatorship in that mind, I think would be horrific.
	The Hive.
	The Hive, yeah, exactly.
	The concept of the Hive.
	I think that's very different.
	Well, good, but maybe that is the oneness.
	Are you sure you're not arguing something that would turn out to be a terror for you?
	Well, for myself, and you know, I've practiced meditation for, you know, 25 years on a daily basis.
	The states of non-duality that I've gone into are very beautiful states.
	There's no terrorism at all.
	All right, hold it right there, David.
	We're at the top of the hour.
	We are going to open the phone lines for David Sirita.
	Allow you to ask anything you want.
	He's a multifaceted man.
	I'm Art Bell.
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	Mississippi in the middle of the dry spell Jimmy Rogers on the victorial up high
	Mama's dancing with baby on her shoulder The sun is setting like molasses in the sky
	But it's in the way of everything Always wanting more, it ain't a longing for
	Black velvet and that little boy's smile Black velvet like slow sunset
	A new religion that'll bring her to your knees Black velvet, it's a good time
	with art bell call the wildcard line at area code The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
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	From coast to coast, and worldwide on the Internet, this is Coast to Coast AM, with Art Bell.
	A new religion that will bring you to your knees.
	I saw a fascinating CNN story earlier today, CNN was running this story that people are beginning to take the Bible and print it word for word in magazine format so that people will read it.
	So few people are willing to open the Bible and read it that they're actually going to print it now in magazine form for modern people.
	We can barely get people to worship as it is these days.
	A great, great, great many of them.
	And here's David Sarita talking about aliens landing.
	Revealing themselves to be our creators.
	in which case indeed you would have a new religion that would well bring you to your knees.
	I wonder if you ever thought of that, David, that if they were to actually reveal themselves
	and then reveal themselves to be our creators, we would indeed have one well of a new religion
	that would bring you right to your knees.
	Well, there is the case of Zaytun in Egypt in the late 60s, and it also started in the year 2000.
	The BBC and ABC News reported this.
	There were orbs of light in the sky over Egypt that looked like UFOs photographed in 1968, accompanied by apparitions of the Virgin Mary that were full-blown visible apparitions.
	That's at zeitun-eg.org on the internet.
	And those photographs were, you know, that made the back pages of the New York Times in the late 60s.
	Two million people According to the BBC, flooded the town of Asyut in the year 2000, and again, these orbs of light are in the sky, and this incredible, translucent, luminous body of light of the Virgin Mary appears, and there are documented healings, and Muslims and Christians are all praying together to her, and it was all over the news in England.
	I mean, I remember it, and I actually wanted to go out there with my video camera and try to film it, but I never could get there.
	And they went on for quite a while, and again, that is UFO phenomena associated with a full-blown apparition of a mystical figure, and that would not be a new religion.
	That would be kind of a revelation on our existing religion, because a lot of Catholics and Protestants and born-agains don't believe that angels have to travel in lightships or UFOs.
	So, well, it might be that.
	It might be that.
	It's a, you know, this is a well-documented case.
	On the other hand, if they're our creators, that means that with technology they created us.
	And that would be in some conflict with the biblical version.
	Well, it would be.
	You know, if they, I mean, if What Zechariah Fission says from the Enuma Elish, which predates the Book of Genesis, the seven tablets of creation describe demigods and goddesses who collectively created us physically in vitro in test tubes, and they manipulated DNA, they mixed the DNA of themselves with the evolving Neanderthal species on Earth and co-created the first Adamah in the Eden.
	That's again well documented.
	And there you are again, David, with reproductive and genetic stuff.
	Yeah.
	Right?
	Yeah.
	I mean, like I said, it literally could happen that we will have that power ourselves.
	All we need is the ability to go interstellar, and if we find a planet that could sustain life with no one living on it, we might start giving birth to a new generation and a new planet.
	That generation will look back at us and say we were gods.
	Yes, if we don't blow ourselves to smithereens first.
	If we don't blow ourselves to smithereens first.
	And I'd say it's a big race.
	Listen, let's take some calls.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air with David Cerita.
	Hi.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Hi, Mike.
	Let's just say my name's John Doe.
	I'm a tech sergeant with the Air Force out of Big Spring, Texas.
	Oh.
	I don't know if you've heard about it.
	I currently work at a faculty formerly known as Henry 18.
	Oh?
	And our job is basically, the craft was too big to move, so we are currently guarding it and keeping it from everybody else.
	You claim you're guarding an extraterrestrial craft.
	Yes, I am.
	My C.O.
	won't let me.
	He allowed me to use our phone to call out.
	To call a talk show and say, hey, we're guarding an extraterrestrial craft.
	Your C.O.
	approved that?
	Unofficially, yes.
	Well, your C.O.
	has lots of guts is all I can say.
	So, alright, so you claim you're calling from what we know in history as Hangar 18.
	That's affirmative.
	Okay.
	It's an opportunity I can't pass up.
	What can you tell me, and David, since he's listening, about the nature of the craft that you guard?
	The craft is approximately 380 feet long and 287 feet wide.
	There were 17 bodies originally found on the craft.
	Of course, every one of them was deceased.
	feet wide. There were 17 bodies originally found on the craft and of
	course every one of them was deceased. The craft crashed and the government
	covered the deaths.
	on...
	And you've been guarding it how long?
	I have been in the Air Force for 17 years.
	Yes, sir.
	And I have been on this project for approximately the last five and a half years.
	Five and a half years.
	David, this is a very unusual opportunity.
	I mean, what would you say?
	I mean, here you are, my guest.
	What do you say to a caller like this?
	Well, I try to be 100% open-minded.
	I would ask him I'd ask you, have you seen the craft do anything, or is it dismantled?
	Does it activate in any kind of a state?
	Has anyone done studies into its energy and propulsion systems?
	As far as I can tell from the propulsion systems, I'm no expert, but from the scientists that I've seen studying it, if you will, they tell me that the propulsion system is dead.
	that apparently when it crashed it was on its last legs, if you will.
	And it was more or less, I guess when it entered our atmosphere it was more or less on its last legs.
	From what I've heard, they said that it was basically a trinium and hydrogen combination that powered it.
	I'm no scientist, but that's what I overheard them say.
	Yeah, that would be quite radioactive.
	So is there any presence of radioactivity?
	Well, at my current duty station, I'm approximately probably 30 feet from the left rear of the craft.
	And just from looking at it, I would say there's no radioactiveness left in it.
	We don't wear no protective suits or anything like that.
	What does it look like?
	It's kind of, I wouldn't say a triangle.
	It's well, it's kind of like a triangle, but every corner of the three edges are rounded and there's three big bulges below it on each corner.
	And a bunch of little bulges in between each corner, and that's the best way I have to describe it.
	How many people do you think have knowledge, guards and scientists and others that you've seen, have knowledge of the existence of this craft, where it is?
	I would say, like I said, I've been on this project for quite a while, and I would say that on any given day, I probably see two or three hundred people.
	And I would say that there's probably at least a few thousand that know of its existence that I have seen personally.
	That you're making this call itself doesn't seem logical.
	In other words, it's obviously a very secret thing, and here you are, a guard, having talked to his commander, calling a national talk show.
	How did that come about?
	I wouldn't say pretty big fans.
	We listen to the radio quite a lot here, and a lot of times we listen to this show late at night.
	It's the only thing interested on.
	My CO, he agreed with me, and he said, hey, other people believe.
	We need to let these people know that there's something out here.
	This crashed a long time ago.
	From what I've heard, it crashed in 1958.
	Are you and your CO willing to go any further?
	We've talked about it, and I don't know about him, but I damn sure am.
	You are?
	Yes, I am.
	Do you know how to get in touch with me?
	I have your line that I called on tonight, and that's the only number I've got.
	Alright, I refer to email.
	I know I don't.
	You're not able to email?
	I can, but I'm kind of afraid to.
	I was more or less told that if I wanted to call in, I'd call in.
	Who's going to believe me?
	Nobody else.
	My CO said, I'll let you make the call.
	I have the means to email at my home, but I'm kind of afraid to.
	Email a way that you would feel safe in communicating.
	Just do that much.
	Go to a library.
	Go to a library to a computer where, you know, a public library or something like that and fire me an email with a suggestion on how we can exchange information.
	How about that?
	All right?
	That'll work.
	All right.
	I actually have three videotapes that I made.
	Oh?
	Well, I say three.
	I have one that I made and I have two that were given to me.
	With the specs for the craft and I actually have, the one I have on tape actually has a craft with bodies.
	Oh, Sergeant, we really need to talk.
	We really need to talk.
	So, Artbell at Minespring.com or Artbell at AOL.com.
	That's my name.
	You'll not forget that.
	Either one of those two addresses.
	And we'll take it from there.
	Alright?
	I appreciate it.
	Thank you, Sergeant.
	Take care.
	You never know, David.
	You never know.
	You just never know.
	You can't be negative and you can't be too enthusiastic, but if he's telling the truth, then you might have something there.
	Well, maybe it's a good moment to stop and ask you.
	I mean, we do have Roswell, David, and other crashes said to have occurred in that area.
	We have perhaps other crashes we've heard of in South Africa and other locations.
	Do you believe there is a crash retrieval program?
	Do you believe we have recovered alien craft?
	Oh, I do.
	And let me tell you about Roswell because this is a view, you know, once you understand the concept of a craft turning into pure, you know, ultraviolet wavelength energy or higher.
	Yes.
	Now let's look at Roswell.
	This is really interesting.
	Check this theory out.
	Okay.
	July 5th, 1945, or it was between the 5th and the 17th, the dates fluctuate, we detonated the first atomic bomb near White Sands, New Mexico.
	Now, July 7th, 1947, two years later, same dates of the year, on either side of the nuclear test site in New Mexico, You have the planes of San Agustin crash, and you have the crash at Roswell.
	That's right.
	Now, just imagine, visualize this for a moment, audience, that you have craft, just like in the case of Mexico, you have interdimensional craft that are vibrating at very high frequency wavelengths.
	Now, a nuclear bomb releases 200 million electron volts of energy with a lot of gamma rays, gamma radiation.
	Now, if you're pure wavelength crap, that gamma burst, tremendous gamma burst, is going to upset you.
	In other words, if you're not physical anymore, you're pure wavelength, what you're vulnerable to is something similar to your frequency bursting at you.
	Sure.
	And you get thrown out on either side of the explosion, one towards Roswell and the other towards Plains of St.
	Augustine.
	And two years later, we see the effects, not instantaneously.
	Now the question in the theory is, why two years later?
	Well, there's that, David, and then there's also just the fact that such an explosion would be apparent to anybody who had been observing us at all, in any way.
	That explosion would have been a major bell ringing.
	Indicating a certain major advance event had occurred on Earth.
	It would be like ringing the great big bells.
	Well, they might have been hovering around saying, what are these guys doing with this thing?
	And again, a nuclear bomb tears into the fabric of the different dimensions.
	So it's not just affecting our dimension.
	But the curiosity is why July Sorry, July 7th, 1947.
	And we tested July 5th through the 17th.
	The date is not clear.
	1945.
	And you get two UFO crashes on either side of the explosion.
	Yes.
	It's really peculiar.
	Well, I don't disagree with you.
	So, in answer to the question, you obviously do believe we have them.
	Oh, yeah.
	And they're under some kind of guard being held somewhere.
	And what?
	Reverse engineering?
	Robert Lazar, going back to Element 115 and the experiments done at Berkeley, which are very recent, just in the last couple of years, they have finally produced Element 115, and the formula, the way they did it, I read it, it's almost identical to Lazar's theory.
	In fact, how could he have been so accurate with a formula that is decades old at this point, And decades later, they duplicate and produce Element 115 with almost the exact formula that he gave out.
	I agree.
	My chin hit my chest when I heard it.
	I went, oh my god!
	You know, in my theory, to convert mass into light, initially you would need a huge burst of energy to affect a great amount of mass.
	Once that mass is reduced to pure light energy, to maintain it, you need next to no energy.
	I don't believe they're using energy in the form of propulsion the way we do, They use a huge energy burst to reduce mass by altering the wave state of mass, and I believe they do it similar to the Hutchison effect.
	And once that craft or steel of that craft is pure light energy, it takes very tiny amounts of energy of strobing waves to maintain it in that state.
	All right, hold tight.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with David Cerita.
	A quick one before the bottom of the hour here.
	David, this is Mel in Montana.
	Hey, Mel.
	How are you?
	OK, I love you guys.
	And obviously, we've both seen that big triangle black craft.
	And before that, I had a I had a camera in the crop circle and I took a picture and I didn't realize later.
	And I looked at the picture later, it was completely black and I see a little alien face in it.
	It looked like a hologram and the size of, you know, it's definitely an alien face.
	I showed it to everybody and they go, Whoa!
	That's an alien face!
	And you took a photograph in a crop circle?
	Yes, I did.
	There have been four crop circles right in my area.
	And it's like a hologram.
	You can only see it when the sun hits it.
	Alright, well, David, let me ask you.
	Crop circles, animal mutilations, the stories we've had of cattle being taken up in beams, All the rest of it.
	These inexplicable things, particularly crop circles and the mutilations, are you convinced they're connected to alien presence?
	Oh, absolutely.
	I think reading the wave formations in the crop circles, if you look at the spiraling wave and weave of the grass, and you look at the spiraling wave strobing out of the NASA UFO photos, you'll see A resemblance, a remarkable resemblance in the wave patterns in these crash propulsion systems.
	And do you believe them to be communicative, or what?
	Oh, I think there is a blueprint in the crop circles.
	I think if you run those through... Any particle physicist who looked at crop circles would understand what they're doing.
	That has the signature of mass going into a higher frequency wave state written all over it.
	I mean, conversion of mass into light.
	I mean, mass is low in frequency, light gets very high in frequency.
	And I think if you can strobe mass with a series of waves, just like John Hutchinson does with the steel cannonball, the cannonball levitates.
	That message, if you know how to read it, is in the cross circles.
	All right, hold tight.
	We're at the bottom of the hour and we'll be right back.
	From the high desert in the middle of the night, this is Coast to Coast AM.
	Find out more about tonight's guest.
	Log on to coasttocoastam.com.
	Needles and pins, what have you done?
	Till you return, climbing that torch and watching it burn.
	Now it begins, play at play.
	Just a simple cage, rolling on.
	White bird must fly or she will die.
	A white bird must fly, or she will die.
	The sun sets come, the sun sets go.
	The clouds go by, the earth turns slow The end of time, you always know
	She was blind She was blind
	She was blind so
	To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
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	From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	Whether it's energy or propulsion systems or even motives of those who utilize them,
	we've got the right guy, David Cerita. He's been a ufologist all his life.
	The technical side and the other side.
	and we'll get right back to it the subject of our present abduction is david serena and
	you're invited to call up and probe
	He has a book, folks.
	It's called Evidence, the Case for NASA UFOs.
	So if you're tantalized by what you hear today and want to know more, that would seem a logical place to go.
	And when you say NASA UFOs, in what context do you mean that, David?
	Well, I mean, it's a three-hour documentary in film.
	I'm working on part two right now.
	It should be ready in October.
	These are a deep investigation into UFO phenomena captured on space shuttle mission cameras during the 1990s.
	It's a collection of the Martin Stubb's work and he archived hundreds and hundreds of hours of NASA missions and noticed many instances of UFOs.
	And I did a study at NASA at a very high level with their physicists and scientists.
	Some of the astronauts have talked to me and other physicists outside of the agency to, you know, Probe into the phenomena and look for answers.
	How much have astronauts really told you?
	I've had some of the oddest responses, David, when I've interviewed astronauts.
	Some, even some that have been to the moon, really odd responses.
	How about you?
	Well, the astronauts themselves, like even Edgar Mitchell, really couldn't, he couldn't conceive of the idea of a zero-mass spacecraft.
	He said that if there's no mass, there's nothing there.
	And I look for zero mass signals.
	He, like many classical physicists, don't accept the UFO phenomena because they're looking for that huge energy signal tagged onto a massive spacecraft and they don't see it.
	Yes, but are there any astronauts who, in fact, reported seeing UFOs?
	Cooper.
	Gordon Cooper.
	I read his book, Weep of Faith, him and I. He was on a Fox TV special on the Fox News in L.A.
	that ran after the X-Files grand finale with me.
	Have you been told anything in private by any of them that goes beyond what we know?
	Not by the astronauts, but John Schuessler, who was an engineer on Gemini and also retired at NASA in 1998.
	The last thing he did was build the Advanced Propulsion Lab for NASA.
	He is now the head of MUFON.
	I'm speaking at Roswell, incidentally, in MUFON this summer, this month, in July 3rd in Roswell and July 16th at MUFON Denver.
	And Schuessler is now the head of MUFON.
	So I asked him, what are you doing in the UFO movement?
	I mean, you're NASA, basically.
	You're... Olberg used to work for Shusor.
	Yes.
	And Shusor will tell you on and on that many encounters that astronauts had with UFOs, in fact, he keeps reports on the sightings by the astronauts.
	And when he answered me, he said the reason he's in the UFO movement is he wants to understand their technology.
	He believes rocket science and rocket propulsion is ancient stuff that we need to get onto In fact, he's very fond of my theory of converting mass into light, or changing the wave state of mass and allowing it to resemble the quality of a photon and attain the speed of light on tiny amounts of energy.
	He believes that's the only way it's possible.
	All right.
	More calls, David.
	Here they come.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with David Sirita.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	My name is Tammy.
	I'm calling from Ventura, California.
	Yes, Tammy.
	Actually, I'd like to ask a question, and if I can, I'd like to share something I saw last week.
	Ventura?
	Ventura, yes.
	You're just north of me.
	Okay.
	Well, that's even better.
	Maybe you saw what I saw.
	Real quick question here.
	Could you explain why everything spins?
	Thin?
	Spins.
	Well, what do you mean by that?
	What did you see that was thin?
	The galaxies and the planets?
	Oh, that's a pretty wide question.
	They all do spin, that's true.
	Oh, why does everything spin?
	I thought you said, why does everything spin?
	No, spin.
	Well, again, everything has a different spin speed.
	Everything is in a wave-particle relationship in our universe.
	The brain is a wave-particle machine.
	The planet is a particle that is spinning around a wave around the solar system.
	The solar system Okay.
	is a collection of wave particles that spins around the galactic core every 250 million years.
	Everything is spinning, which is particles and waves.
	And those particle-wave relationships have frequency, meaning how frequently they make a revolution.
	So when you study the wave-particle relationship of matter, and you study the wave-particle relationship of light,
	you start to get your answer on how you go from mass into light state.
	So yes, everything is spinning.
	Okay? All right.
	Saturday.
	It was actually Saturday morning into Sunday.
	It was like 1.30 in the morning.
	Um, I, oh God, this was, this is amazing.
	I've been trying all week to get through on this.
	It was a, um, um, a meteorite.
	It was approximately, um, 500 feet, I would say, actually, by size, by, like, two palm trees high.
	Two palm trees distance from me.
	I just got a glance of it as it was just coming down to the earth.
	It was huge and it was very, very hot.
	It got my right cheek was just really, really hot and it seemed to me like it landed maybe about two or three miles away.
	It had no sound effect whatsoever, and it had a tail on it 12 to 14 feet.
	It was a ball of fire.
	Within three hours, there's a gleam of fire going on, which actually burnt, and it shut down lanes of Highway 101.
	101, it burnt 6,000 acres.
	They really never mentioned anything about it other than it burnt 6,000 acres.
	You're convinced that started the fire?
	Yes.
	Oh, yes.
	They evacuated Carpinteria and Montecito.
	Wow.
	What date are you looking at?
	I'm looking on the 5th.
	Actually, it was the 6th.
	Of what?
	This month.
	It was last week.
	6th of June?
	Yes.
	She said a week ago.
	I'm sorry, Art.
	Go ahead.
	No, I'm just saying, you said a week ago, virtually, when I was doing this program, actually.
	Well, yes, it was you and you were talking to the Astronauts when the stars were all lining up.
	Yes.
	It was that night.
	Actually, it was the night after the one that happened, that came down in Washington.
	The exact night right after that.
	Wow, I heard about the one in Washington.
	Okay, now I've asked seven different people here.
	And nobody has seen it.
	I'm just blown away.
	Nobody has seen a New York impact.
	There's no poll.
	There's no curator.
	Well, it's not that so much.
	There's no media on it.
	You don't even hear people talking because it happened.
	It was huge.
	Many should have seen it, right?
	Oh, you bet.
	You bet.
	And within hours, that fire had started.
	There's not been a word on that fire whatsoever about anything.
	It was just kind of like brought up to us, our attention, and then dropped.
	Is the fire out now?
	Yeah.
	North of Korea?
	No, it was in Goleta.
	Goleta, okay.
	Just north of Santa Barbara.
	Oh my God.
	I tell you, it's got to be, it has to have been seen by some astronomer, somebody, because when I seen it, it had probably a good minute before it got out of my vision and actually there's a hill that goes over the coast there and I thought oh my god it it went over there to like the camp.
	Well maybe in the center of that location where the fire occurred somebody might want to take a stroll out and take a look for what might be there that's a I know someone who lives out there I'll have to call.
	Pretty remarkable story actually.
	Really remarkable I mean if there could be something Like in the Betty Cash case, you had a UFO that was very hot and caused severe radiation burns.
	If you have heat on your cheek, do you have any...
	Any rashes or anything different on your body?
	She's now gone, but that is remarkable.
	I'm going to check that area out, because I know someone who lives up there.
	In addition, she's right.
	Many would have seen it.
	So I'll watch my email and see if we can get confirmation of what she just said.
	There's so much going on right now.
	I know.
	That's the only way I know to follow up.
	Others have or saw that, and if there's confirmation for it, then we want to follow up.
	Okay, first time caller on the line, you're on the air with David Sirita, hello.
	Yeah, Art and David, it's nice to talk to you.
	Yes sir, thank you.
	I am, I currently am a government employee, and I'm not going to say what branch I'm in or my name for my own, you know, for my own career purposes.
	Yes.
	But I can promise you, Art, that several years ago in the early 90s when I first started working for the government, I actually, um, was one of those people who answered the phone at a local base and, uh, when we received UFO calls, we were told to act like we were actually taking the information and ignore it and move on.
	You were told to act like you were really taking the information and just forget it and move on, not really even make note of it?
	Right, right.
	Like it was, like it wasn't even going on.
	You know, they said act concerned and then press on.
	My question for David is, what do you think about the time traveler theory?
	It's a good question.
	I'm going to get you off the hook here, sir.
	I can hear you covering up the radio.
	Thank you.
	That was somebody in security, a police officer now.
	That's fascinating.
	The man, obviously in security, just told us that he was told to take calls and Then just blow them off.
	I mean, make like you were writing down the information and blow it off.
	Can you believe that?
	Well, it's interesting because Patrick Oostert and I with the Venice UFO, we called the FAA, in fact we taped this in the documentary, and the FAA took us really seriously.
	In fact, a week later I called them and they still remembered, and I sent them a copy of the DVD of the full You know, editing job and zooming in close on the Venice UFO, and they're looking at it right now, so I don't know if they're brushing it off, but they did a radar search and found nothing from Santa Monica Airport or LAX to confirm the location and time of the UFO, so that would mean it's either invisible to radar, which is not surprising, or they just don't want to tell us that they had an incident on radar.
	Alright, well, the second part of what he said was also pretty fascinating.
	A logical mind, considering the possibility of time travel, even the amount of energy we know is required to achieve time travel, still has to imagine that if we don't blow ourselves up, someday we will find that power and we will achieve time travel.
	If that would be true, then it would be reasonable to have an expectation of time travelers.
	I think there are two ways.
	The current approach with wormholes, I mean, look at Kip Thorne's book, you know, Black Holes and Time Warps.
	The energy required to create a wormhole to fold two points in space-time to go, basically, obviate the speed of light, and yet they're shorter, requires the energy, what's called the negative energy, of every sun in our galaxy, the energy they put out for a whole year.
	So that's a hundred million suns.
	All of their negative solar energy for a whole year to make one wormhole with a narrow snout enough to fit a dime through.
	The wider that snout gets, the more energy required.
	These are ridiculous numbers.
	And they're unattainable.
	I mean, no one can produce energy levels that high.
	But, if you're zero mass, once again, you can do zero mass wormholes on tiny amounts of energy.
	And therefore, once you figure out how to do zero mass wormholes, Yeah, you could move through time.
	I believe time also is a wave-particle relationship.
	I mean, if you really look at time, the particle planet spinning around the sun once per year, that's a particle-wave relationship.
	So, if you look at time in a wave-particle model, which I have done in my galactic clock, which is a clock I invented for measuring all wave-particle relationships in all four dimensions, I believe I can prove That every event has already happened in actuality.
	It's only time that inhibits us from moving forward and backwards through those events.
	But they've all actually happened.
	In fact, Richard Feynman, the great physicist, did this experiment with an electron where he proved the same thing.
	He called it the sum over history.
	For the electron, all events have happened already.
	But some of what we observe with UFOs Almost seems paranormal, because you've said it yourself, of the apparent disappearances and that sort of thing.
	Well, if there were time travelers, and if they were here observing or interacting in whatever way might be possible, given the rules of time travel, whatever they turn out to be, Well, they might be time travelers.
	Have you thought that one over?
	Oh, see, again, I believe it's absolutely possible, because what I'm saying is that every event has already happened, and instead of moving at the speed of light or faster to manipulate time, I believe you move on the time wave itself.
	It has its own wave.
	And therefore, yeah, you can move forward and backwards in time.
	Apparently, there was a guy you had on your show who was a time travel expert, and he just vanished after he did your show.
	I can't remember his name.
	Oh, actually, there's more than one.
	Believe me, there's more than one.
	So, actually, there's perhaps three people who have come forward with pretty serious time travel stories.
	They're gone.
	They're gone.
	Now, maybe they moved.
	In time, and that's where they are.
	Dr. David Anderson.
	Remember him?
	Remarkable, remarkable stories about time travel.
	And he's gone.
	No one knows where he is.
	He's disappeared.
	He's disappeared.
	In fact, my friend Lou Gatto is looking feverish.
	Madman Markham is gone.
	He's never reappeared.
	Maybe they figured out the secret and they moved and they're in another, what Feynman calls, another history.
	Well, it's at least one of the things that you have to consider, bearing in mind they were Talking about time travel, and now they're not here any longer.
	That seems like a lot.
	Anyway, look, we're very short on time.
	WildCardLine, you're on the air with David Sirita.
	Hello.
	Yes, hello.
	Yes, um, I've got a question for David.
	Fire away.
	Okay.
	Has anybody, I'm sure they have thought about the fact that people, whoever they are, have, they could have been here the whole time.
	Uh, let's say they had they from a planet that died out.
	Hey, maybe Mars.
	I don't think David would disagree with you at all.
	We're beginning to see them because of technology we have developed.
	or the, you know what I'm saying, and they stay invisible.
	Maybe now our technology is catching up to them, where they can no longer stay invisible.
	Maybe now it's come a time where they might have to interact with us.
	I don't think David would disagree with you at all.
	We're beginning to see them because of technology we have developed. Right, David?
	Oh, absolutely.
	I even got a call from an individual who works in Space Command, and they said they see these things coming in on visible satellites all the time, on infrared and UV, and he said almost everyone who works in Space Command sees these things, all on a fairly regular basis.
	So, yeah, I mean, even physically, I mean, they could, again, once you can, and Christ did this in the Resurrection, He took flesh and turned it into light, and once you're light, you can disappear in different dimensions, I think that was a yes caller, and I'm afraid we're out of time.
	light at will. So they could be here amongst us and remain cloaked in this invisible dimension.
	And if we start looking with these incredible infrared cameras and UV cameras, we will start
	to see them.
	I think that was a yes caller, and I'm afraid we're out of time. David, I want to give you
	a chance to plug your book, The Case for Nasty UFOs. And I know that you have tapes, I believe,
	as well, right?
	Well, people can, you know, tomorrow morning, you can either order through UFONASA.com or go 1-877-UFO-NASA, toll free from within the United States.
	But the other thing is, Evidence 2 is coming out September-October, which is a packed film.
	It's got a bonus DVD with an hour and 20 minutes unplugged with Dan Aykroyd, which is an incredible, mind-blowing interview.
	And also the Venice UFO film I'm going to put out in the next couple months with Patrick Eustert and all the California sightings up in Sonora will be in a full documentary as well.
	So I've got two new films coming out this year.
	And when can people begin ordering those?
	They can check on LAUFO.com because all my new stuff is going to be there.
	It's probably late September, October it should be ready.
	So you've been very busy?
	I've been busy the whole last year doing interviews.
	I've interviewed Hutchison, Trevor James Constable.
	I've interviewed, you know, people like John Schuessler.
	There's a lot of them, actually, in the next evidence film.
	I believe I've gotten half a check made in this new one.
	And the Ackroyd interview was incredible.
	I mean, that man's mind on UFOs is, wow, I mean, he's far more evolved.
	To me, he's Einstein crammed into a comedian's body.
	And on that note, we've got to go.
	David Sirita, thank you.
	Thank you, Art.
	It's been a pleasure.
	It has indeed.
	Good night, my friend.
	And to all of you, have a wonderful week.
	George is back tomorrow night.
	I'm Mark Bell, and for this night and this weekend from the high deserts, good night.
	Midnight in the desert, shooting stars across the sky This magical journey will take us on a ride
	Filled with a longing, searching for the truth We make it to tomorrow
	Will the sun shine on you?

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