Art Bell

All Episodes

Previous Next

May 2, 2004 - Art Bell

02:51:58

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Bryan Sykes - Male Extinction

Participants

Main voices

58:57

bryan sykes

01:13:55

Large

Audio Only |

Scroll

Show episode speakers

Speaker	Time	Text
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was about four five months ago.
		It broke on the news wires, it was on all the networks.
		You may remember it said a researcher has discovered that the Y chromosome, the male chromosome, is deteriorating!
		It's it's it's falling apart and in another hundred thousand years or whatever there'll be no more of us guys.
		That's it, we're gone.
unidentified		No more men in the world That is one researcher's view.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		His name is O'Brien Sykes, and we're gonna have him on at in the next hour, 11 o'clock Pacific time.
		And I've got his book here.
		It's called Adam's Curse.
		That's an appropriate name for a book like that.
		Adam's Curse, huh?
		He is like a curse.
		Eventually, you are no more.
		I think he's down in Australia or somewhere like that.
		Let's see.
		I don't know, maybe Great Britain.
unidentified		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, he's far away somewhere, and we'll be calling him in the next hour.
		This hour, we'll have open lines and a few things that I've got that I want to run by you.
		News-wise, in a daring escape, an American hostage in Rock Thomas Hamill just pried open the doors of the house where he was being held and walked out virtually into the arms of U.S. troops.
		And, you know, I had seen some video of this guy, Thomas Hamill, and I thought when I saw him, they had a shot, you may have seen it on CNN or something, of him in a car.
		And I thought, you know, he looks like CIA or Special Forces or something, but they say he was just an American.
		Well, so, you know, I'm not saying he's CIA.
		I'm just saying he kind of had that look to him like he was one tough mama of a guy.
		Anyway, he walked right out, and he's now free.
		Not a good day in Iraq.
		There aren't many of those lately at all.
		Matter of fact, make that 11 Americans died at the hands of insurgents again.
		And the numbers are going up at an extremely concerning rate for the administration.
		And of course, there was a big hoo-ha over the nightline business the other night.
		And now the story about torture.
		Dia El-Shwahiri spent several stints in Baghdad's notorious prison, twice under Saddam Hussein's rule, once under American.
		He prefers Saddam's torture to ours, I guess.
		Says he was stripped naked by American guards.
		Told the Associated Press all kinds of things were done to him.
		General Richard Myers said, Sunday, on the other hand, there is no evidence of systematic abuse, and the actions of just a handful have unfairly tainted all American forces.
		Torture.
		You know, the Egyptians worshipped cats as great intellectual deities, as towers of intellectualism.
		the Egyptians really did think cats were very smart, very intelligent.
		And you know, there's really Humans and cats.
		You ever thought about that?
		Have you ever watched a cat with a mouse or anything else?
		I wonder if it is in our nature.
		There's a lot working on both sides.
		You know, they really hate us.
		The radical Islamics.
		They hate our, they want us dead.
		They certainly proved that, didn't they?
		And a lot of Americans have a lot of very serious memories about September 11th.
		So, you know, nobody ever endorses torture.
		You might understand those some of the emotions that the American captors may have gone through if there was some of that.
		Anyway, that's an interesting note and something for you to consider really hard that only two mammals on earth really torture, and that would be humans and cats.
		I'm not sure if that says a lot for us or a lot for cats or less for the two groups.
		For financially oppressed consumers, it's coming down to a choice between spending on gasoline or groceries.
		What do you think they're choosing?
		Well, so far, gasoline is winning.
		This is from a food industry analysis.
		Given the economic environment, it is not surprising that more shoppers are buying food today in discount stores and other low-price venues than ever before.
		So they're spending their money where on Gasoline.
		But I guess that'll reach a balance at some point, won't it?
unidentified		be right back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I thought this of possible interest to you.
		It certainly was me.
		Two crashes in a row.
		Can you believe that?
		That happened last night.
		First time out of the chute each time.
		That's very interesting.
		What do you think would happen if E.T. arrived?
		Well, there's something actually known about that.
		Let me read you a little bit of this.
		It's a wonderful article by Jim Wilson, who I think wrote it for Popular Mechanics.
		I can't be sure about that.
		I think, yes, yes, Popular Mechanics, probably the cover story.
		Within the scientific community, the question is no longer whether extraterrestrial life exists, but if ET is smart enough to do long division.
		Scientists are of two minds regarding the existence of extraterrestrial intelligence.
		Skeptics acknowledge simple life forms might be found on other planets, but insist intelligent life is unique to Earth.
		Their belief is based on the assumption that Earth possesses unique physical attributes, including a magnetic field that deflects cosmic rays and a moon that absorbs asteroids together.
		These protective features make Earth a rare, safe harbor, one that nurtured the evolution of primitive life forms into intelligent beings that, well, I won't say it, the opposing camp sees the prospect for discovering alien life in more mathematical terms.
		Its touchstone, the Drake equation, which links the probability of discovering extraterrestrial intelligence to factors such as the size of the universe, the number of stars, with Earth-like planets, with the discovery of each new planet beyond Earth's solar system, there are now more than 100.
		The odds of encountering intelligence increase.
		Governments and international organizations about the world have taken notice of the changing odds.
		No governmental official has gone on record yet claiming that UFOs are real, let alone a threat, yet with little public fanfare, check this out, folks, they have, in fact, begun preparing for the single most important event in human history, first contact.
		That is the moment Earthlings discover incontrovertible proof that they are not alone.
		Unless E.T. materializes from another dimension in the middle of the Super Bowl, humans most likely are going to have some advance warning of arrival.
		How much time we get to straighten up for extraterrestrial company depends on who spots E.T. first.
		The privately funded SETI Institute uses radio telescopes owned by observatories around the world to sweep the sky for signals broadcast by advanced civilizations.
		If E.T. has read Emily Post or her intergalactic equivalent and calls ahead, we could have years or decades or longer to prepare for first contact.
		Unfortunately, the current SETI, Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence Project, can afford to look only at small swatches of the sky, so any extraterrestrial courtesy calls probably are going to be missed.
		In fact, a more likely scenario is that the U.S. Air Force would spot E.T. spacecraft as it traversed the void between Earth and the Moon using powerful radar and optical telescopes in Hawaii, Greenland, Florida, the Indian Ocean.
		Air Force Space Command tracks satellites, monitors missile launches, and spots baseball and larger-sized bits of orbiting debris with the hope of preventing any accidents, of course.
		But in fact, if ET turns up on Space Command's radar, that would mean alien visitors are hours or perhaps even just minutes away.
		So, what would happen?
		The broad brush outline for Earth's response to the first alien encounter is set out in an international agreement called the Declaration of Principles concerning activities following the detection of extraterrestrial intelligence.
		Written by a committee of scientists organized by the SETI Institute, the Declaration spells out what astronomers should do and what they should avoid doing immediately after first contact.
		Perhaps the most surprising, now you listen to me very carefully here, the most surprising aspect of the agreement is that astronomers who sign on to the declaration agree to keep the news of any imminent contact under their hat until the astronomy community and authorities have been notified.
		Now, how many times have you heard me interviewing Seth Shostak when he has said, oh no, it would get out?
		And sure enough, in this article, they actually do cover that aspect that, you know, it might, publicity might, it might break, somebody might leak it or something.
		But really, the fact of the matter is, and Seth has never told me this, they sign something that says, oh, no, goes first to the other astronomers, then the authorities.
		Now, authorities would cover a whole lot of ground, wouldn't it?
		I'm not going to, I obviously have time to read all of this, and you should pick up a copy of Popular Mechanics and read this very long article, but oh my, what would happen if they got here?
		The question of how humanity might react to its first contact with intelligent aliens was officially raised in the late 1950s by the then newly created National Aeronautics and Space Administration, our lovable NASA.
		Curious as to how discoveries about the origin of the universe might affect society as a whole, NASA contracted with, of course, the famous Brookings Institute.
		And I need not cover that because you know what Brookings has pretty much said, how it would Upset the apple cart here on Earth and so forth.
		If E.T. turns up at NASA's doorstep bearing an invitation, you know, the one we sent out in a spacecraft, it's in for a bit of a surprise.
		Instead of getting a handshake from the head of NASA, wouldn't that be nice?
		It will instead be handcuffed by an FBI agent dressed in a biosafety level 4 suit.
		Instead of sleeping in the Lincoln bedroom, as you might expect at the White House, why, this alien will be whisked away to the Department of Agriculture's Animal Disease Center on Plum Island off the coast of New York, Long Island, where it will be poked and probed by doctors from the National Institutes of Health.
		A Department of Energy, or DOE, a nuclear emergency search team, NEST, a NEST team they're called, will tow away its spacecraft like it had perked by a hydrant.
		Unfriendly as this welcome may seem, it is the chain of events that would most likely follow any visitor's arrival, and there's so much more to this article.
		So I suggest you pick up a copy of Popular Mechanics.
		It kind of squashes the concept of the cheering, welcoming crowds of the handshake from, well, yeah, the head of NASA, then the President of the United States and other world leaders and a cheery event.
		Oh, no, it's off to Plum Island and needles.
		Oh, let's see.
		Oh, here's something else NASA's up to, maybe.
		In the First World War, frontline troops who were away from their loved ones for long periods famously had bromide put into their tea, which does roughly the opposite of a lot of what your email suggests those little pills do.
		In other words, it reduces the distraction of any females around.
		You just aren't interested.
		But yesterday, it was suggested such measures might be taken a lot further, in fact, all the way to Mars.
		Dr. Rachel Armstrong, speaking yesterday at a British Interplanetary Society Symposium on human future in space, said that the U.S. space agency NASA was considering how to deal with the natural urges of astronauts traveling on long journeys, such as a three-year trip to Mars, where the six-strong crew would likely be including two women.
		NASA's talking about the chemical sterilization of astronauts on longer journeys.
		I don't know.
		NASA was not impulsed by the suggestion yesterday.
		I've never heard anything about it, said a spokesman at NASA's Johnson Space Center, where the long-range trips announced by our president in January are now being planned.
		But the denial may hide a reluctance in a nation like ours where the showing of a nipple on national television, oh, what that did.
	There was religious outcry.
	There was FCC action.
	I mean, we are, I don't know, we're not exactly Victorian, but we're not exactly that far away from it either.
	So NASA doesn't even like to talk about stuff like this.
	But I guess it could be an issue, right?
	I mean, you've got several men up there with the right stuff and women, and they've got a long journey to make.
	I mean, what, 18 months, possibly?
	Or even if it got down to six months there and six months back, that's still a long, long journey.
	Maybe this is our future.
	Florida.
	It's Manilapon or something like that, Florida.
	Associated Press, one of the nation's wealthiest towns, is soon going to have cameras and computers running background checks on every single car and driver that passes through.
	The police chief there, phone named Clay Walker, said cameras are going to take infrared photos recording a car's tag number.
	Then software will automatically run the numbers through law enforcement databases.
	A 9-11 dispatcher is alerted should car be stolen or is the subject of a be on the lookout for kind of warning.
	Next to the tag number, police will have a picture of the driver taken with another set of cameras, upgraded versions of the standard surveillance cameras already in place, but this baby will nail your face.
	And if there's a robbery, police will be able to comb records to determine who drove through town on any given afternoon or evening.
	In other words, the courts have ruled that in a public area you have no expectation of privacy, said Walker, one of 11 sworn officers who protects that town's 321 residents.
	Still, Walk says their data will be destroyed every three months.
	The town council authorized $60,000 in security upgrades last week after three burglaries this winter robbed residents of $400,000 in jewelry.
	Oh, it is a rich town.
	The town averages two or three burglaries per year, and residents demanded something happen fast, and this is what they're doing.
	So there's going to be cameras literally everywhere.
	You would not be able to go through this town without them having a picture of your car, your license plate, and your face.
	And I remember, you know, just a couple years ago going to the Super Bowl, and I was the unwitting guinea pig, along with everybody else who went to that Super Bowl, of the nation's first large mass attempt at taking everybody's picture.
	And they had computers there, and they were looking for felons.
	Now, nobody, as far as I know, was arrested.
	nobody got arrested actually because of that.
	Even if the alarm bells went off and all the rest of it, it was merely an experiment to see if they could reasonably do it.
	And I think that what we're seeing here in this story is the perfection or the near perfection of this system.
	So I guess Big Brother is just about here.
	It's just about Orwell time, folks.
	When they can point a camera at you in your car and they can know everything about you in a couple of seconds flat, there's nowhere to run.
	Even though this would be a very large country, I suppose there was a day in America where, by golly, if you had to be on the lamb, you could take off.
	But I think that day is ending.
	And I think now we can look forward to the probability, the certainty, the vast certainty that George is out there winking at us right now.
	And that privacy, such as we knew it, is no more.
	That's right.
	They're everywhere.
	And nobody's going to go on the lamb.
	Not if somebody wants to find you.
	Very, very different America.
	Isn't it?
	From the high desert in the middle of the night, which is where we do our work and our play, this is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		I'm Art Bell.
		Riders of the Star Riders of the Star.
		Into this house we're born.
		Into this world we're thrown Into this
		world Into this
		world Into this world
		To touch with IPL, call the wildcard line area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time call to line is erratic code 775-727-1222.
		To touch with IPL from east of the Bronte's, call full-free at 800825-5033.
		From west of the Bronte, call 800618-8255.
		International callers may recharge by calling your in-country sprint access number, pressing option 5, and dialing full-free 800-893-0903.
		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would be me.
		Good evening, good morning, whatever.
		It's great to be with you, everybody.
		We're in open lives.
		Anything you want to talk about is fair game.
		Unscreened, untouched, unanswered until we get to them.
		That's what it is.
		No net coming right up.
		Stay right there.
		That's fast service.
		Look at this.
		I got a fast blast from Lex, who's the webmaster?
		Lex Loanhood.
		Hey, Art, I found that popular mechanics article you were reading from and have it posted first under the hot stories section in the lower right side of the page.
		That's fast.
		All right, East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
		That didn't work well.
		Let me try it again.
		East of the Rockies.
		Hello, you're on the air.
unidentified		This is Bob.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Bob.
unidentified		I believe that if your ice age descends on Europe, as you've predicted, that the Mediterranean could become a freshwater lake, Iraq could become the Eden, the garden, and North Africa become the breadbasket of the whole horse of that world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's how it might work, Bob.
unidentified		Can you imagine Iraqis having the remaining reservoir of oil and fresh water?
unidentified		They'd be the richest people in the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know.
		We occupy it, so maybe we'd be.
		I mean.
unidentified		Maybe our people went over there smarter than I think they are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe, Bob.
		I've got, you know, I want to say it again.
		Rush really just went off in a tangent about the movie.
		The movie.
		I'm going to tell you a couple things about the movie.
		It's going to grab you, and it's going to grab you from the first second you sit down, and it's not going to let you go.
		It's called The Day After Tomorrow.
		It's coming up.
		You may have begun to see some trailers for it now.
		They're running on television and in movie theaters and that sort of thing.
		It's going to be a big movie.
		And Rush, you know, took off really hard on it.
		I mean, you know, he said basically it was an issue nobody cared about.
		That just isn't true.
		Of all the things he said, to say that, you know, it's an issue people don't care about our climate or climate change or all the rest of that.
		People don't care about it all.
		My goodness, that's just not true.
		Anyway, this movie is going to be quite something, ladies and gentlemen.
		It's going to grab you really, really hard.
		Roland Emmerich's done a lot of work, and it's going to be something.
		It's called The Day After Tomorrow, coming up May 28th, nationwide.
		It's from our book.
		I say our book, Whitley Streeber, myself, Arpell.
		It's called The Coming Global Superstorm, and The Day After Tomorrow is based in part on that book.
		And for those of you that have read both, you will see both books, or that book, of course, throughout the movie.
		And I warn you, it's one of those movies that is going to leave you absolutely breathless.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yeah, hi, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		How are you doing tonight?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm just spiffy, thank you.
unidentified		Good to talk to you.
		I'm Dennis.
		I'm in Phoenix.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hey, Dennis.
unidentified		What I called about is kind of related to that, except it has to do with catastrophic earth changes.
		By the way, I'm looking forward to the movie.
		I'm rereading Coming Global Superstorm.
		But this evening I was watching part of, this was on cable, it's called 10.5 or 10.5.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ah, yes.
		Now, be careful what you tell me here, because I have it on hard drive.
		I detest having to wait.
		And so instead, I taped, put on hard drive tonight and will tomorrow night and then watch it all together.
unidentified		Well, what I have to say won't ruin anything for you.
		Okay.
		Who is it that he's been a regular guest, the geologist from California who has learned to predict quakes, and he was actually even suspended.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, he was the county geologist, right, up in the Bay Area.
		It'll hit me.
		Anyway, I know who you're talking about, yes?
unidentified		Yeah, anyway, the movie kind of has to do with some kind of visionary or far-sighted geologist there in California who they pretty much get treated the same way.
		Whoever wrote that must have been paying attention to your program or him because those with the foresight pretty much get treated the same way, same reaction.
		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, well, messengers are always shot.
unidentified		Oh, and the politics and all that stuff, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're always shot.
		Messengers are always shot.
		If it's bad news, people don't want to hear bad news.
		Well, it's a funny thing.
		Actually, in a way, they do, and in a way, they don't.
		It's kind of like going to a horror movie.
		You know, why do you go to a horror movie?
		It's going to scare you.
		You know it's going to scare you, but you want that.
unidentified		The thing is to have to live through it, and I suspect, I strongly believe, I have my reasons, I won't get into them.
		And I was talking to somebody from California today who's moved here.
		And actually, I don't think Phoenix is a safe place.
		I've got my reasons for that.
		I won't belabor this conversation.
		But he said, you know, we're due for cleaning the human race, or at least this country.
		And I says, well, if the populace doesn't do it, I suspect actually Mother Nature will do it before the populace does.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, here's the thing about Mother Nature.
		Mother Nature, kind of like with justice, is you could think of her, you know, holding a couple of weights.
		Right?
		And he's right about that.
		Mother Nature doesn't get angry.
		Mother Nature doesn't get mad.
		Mother Nature gets even as a sort of a way to think about it.
		In other words, if something becomes too far out of balance, then inevitably there's something in nature that will act to correct that balance.
		Simple as that.
		A wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Good evening, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good evening to you.
unidentified		Well, this is Pat.
unidentified		I'm calling you from Pennsylvania.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		And Art, do you know how the conventional wisdom is that if extraterrestrial life were proven to absolutely exist, that the Christian community would be shaken the most?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, actually, that's not conventional wisdom, if you're drawing from what Brookings said.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They suggested that as unlikely as it might seem, the greatest disturbance would come to science.
unidentified		To the scientific community.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, indeed.
unidentified		But I just wanted to relate something that I heard several years ago.
unidentified		I was listening to an interview on public television with the Reverend Billy Graham.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ah, yes.
unidentified		And in the middle of the interview, out of the blue, he makes a reference to the inhabitants of other planets.
		And the interviewer now picks him up on this.
		And Art, I was astonished to hear Dr. Graham say that he believes absolutely that extraterrestrials are real and that there are many inhabited planets in our universe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is very interesting.
		I wasn't aware he had said that, but that's fascinating.
		Fascinating.
		And what was his general consensus?
unidentified		If I can remember the context correctly, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're all God's creatures?
unidentified		Yes, and that they might be human and some might not.
unidentified		But in any event, he believes that they exist with...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fascinating.
		I would love to read a transcript of what the Reverend Graham said.
		I really would.
		I'd love to read that.
		Somebody out there inevitably will have it.
		And by the way, if you want to get something to me, it's not that hard.
		I am reachable.
		And I will give you a little hint, because anybody who gets as many emails, and my emails number in the thousands, many days, into the thousands, try and put something in the header that will suggest to me what it's about and how urgent it really is.
		Because I do a kind of, you know, when you get thousands of emails, it's kind of a system of triage.
		And without a header that would attract, then I'm liable to skip over it And regard it as, you know, another little blue pill advertisement.
		So try and put something in there.
		You can reach me, artbell at mindspring.com.
		That's A-R-T-B-E-L-L at mindspring.com or artbell at aol.com.
		Either one of those will get me.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, this is Fred calling from Portland, listening to you on WGAN.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I was just actually calling about, you had a few guests on there before talking about the speed of gravity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		And some that thought it was instantaneous and other ones had other speculation about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		I was actually just calling to say they did a study on that not too long ago involving Jupiter and quasars and things along that line.
unidentified		And the scientists were actually able to determine that it works at the speed of light.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They were.
unidentified		Yes.
		There are several studies.
		If you go to google.com, it says the exact thing that they did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's fascinating.
		Absolutely fascinating.
		At the speed of light.
		Confirming again, I suppose, that nothing can exceed the speed of light.
		Or at least supporting that, huh?
unidentified		Yes.
		They said if the sun were to immediately just disappear, we'd still follow a trajectory for about 8.3 minutes, at which point we'd fly off at the tangent.
		There were some studies on it, and they had all the exact information.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So we'd have a real hot eight minutes.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So to speak.
		All right.
		Well, I appreciate the information, and I'll do a little bit of research on it.
unidentified		All right.
unidentified		Have a good night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You too, the speed of gravity.
		Some guests thought it to be instantaneous.
		And I thought, well, then, how would you ever prove that it was not so?
		Because all matter is presently in existence.
		And to measure the speed of gravity, which relates to the mass of an object, you would have to create a new mass and then measure its effect from point A to point B, right?
		So I still have questions.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yeah, hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Are we on the air now?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What's your best guess?
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		Yeah, a few weeks ago, you had a conversation with Sir Charles regarding the use of satellites to project microwave energy to the Earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		For energy, yes.
unidentified		Right, right.
		Well, I was thinking that that system might be used to power up or to work to help to power up a space plane, as it were.
		If you had two satellites bracketing the plane on its line of flight upwards, and you had the receiver dishes on port and starboard side in the fuselage, you know the SRBs from
art bell ▲ ● ▼		continuing to use this energy to build its acceleration.
unidentified		Right, exactly.
		The SRBs from the shuttle, the solid rocket boosters, they burn powdered aluminum.
		And the method of their ignition is like arc, like an arc welding type mechanism.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		So I was reasoning that perhaps the more voltage you had at hand, the less powdered aluminum you would burn, and consequently the greater distance you could cover.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's fascinating.
		I appreciate the call, and I wonder if we might not look into that a little bit.
		I wonder if NASA's looked into it.
		It's really an intriguing idea.
		He was talking first of the concept of beaming energy back to Earth, collecting it with large solar collectors in some sort of a fixed orbit, and then beaming them back to Earth.
		You know, with collectors on the ground.
		Instead, he is suggesting this as a means of propulsion, virtually, of propulsion, of pushing a craft away from Earth.
		An intriguing idea, and perhaps a way with enough energy to accelerate to very great speeds.
unidentified		Hmm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		This is Experiment626 again.
unidentified		How you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why would you call yourself an experiment?
unidentified		Well, like when I talked to you the last time with John Lear on the phone about, oh, how we're all experimenting and we're just vessels.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		Yeah, so anyway, did you see the latest headlines about the robots that they want to build for descending the moon and to fix the space shuttle or the space?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The telescope?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Hubble?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, I did see that.
unidentified		You know, they used the IP, the Ginger, the Segway?
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		The bottom of the Segway for the part of the robot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		They got it showing a picture of it here, and it looks like, I don't know, looks like they call it Robo Knot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Robo Robo Knot, that's pretty good.
unidentified		Yeah, it looks pretty cool.
unidentified		Looks like a robot with a base like the Segway.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, they've got a lot of work to do with robots to get them really where we expect.
		You know, robots by now were supposed to be doing everything for us.
		The dishes, everything, and it just hasn't happened.
		It's very disappointing.
unidentified		Just like you, I've been waiting for that.
unidentified		Wait, weren't we promised that back in 2000?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We sure were.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we were promised that back in the 50s.
unidentified		Of course.
		You grew up in the same era I did.
		Come on, I want my jet back.
		I want my flying car, and I want my robot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You got it.
		That's right.
		Where are the flying cars?
unidentified		Exactly.
unidentified		I'm just going like, come on, it's supposed to be back to future time already.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Extremely disappointing.
unidentified		Well, you have a good night, Archie.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You too, sir.
		Take care.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		This is Olin in Culver City, California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Olin.
unidentified		Yes.
		The reason that Red China is underselling everybody since 1995 is because Red China is giving away 8.27 won per dollar when the dollar is only worth about 5 wons.
		Red China is using slave labor to build up their military-industrial complex.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean kind of like we did?
unidentified		Well, but they're in continuing violation of the GAP treaty, which...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think a lot of nations in their infancy have used what amounts to slave labor, one way or the other.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You can think of it that way.
unidentified		Oh, I see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, don't you think?
		I mean, really, America did some of that?
		We did to have slavery, didn't we?
		Well, yes, and then that slavery built a lot of early America, didn't it?
unidentified		Well, they also had indentured servants from Great Britain and Europe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm just saying it kind of one of those evolutionary things that it's not laudable, but it seems to be just almost universally true.
unidentified		Well, selling low to get started is a good practice, but unfortunately, we are under fascist economic attack to deindustrialize America and bankrupt the American government.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that was last night's guest, and he makes points that we're pretty much well on the way toward that now, huh?
unidentified		Well, that's right.
		When Red China sells out the treasury bonds and notes that they're holding, they'll bankrupt the American government.
		As a matter of fact, Red China is dumping cheap foreign goods made by slave labor in concentration camps all over the world.
		Dropping their goods all over the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I know.
		I know.
		And I don't know exactly what to do about it.
		I mean, jobs are being outsourced.
		You know, a lot of times when you'll call for tech support or something these days, it's incredible.
		It's like you'll get some guy and you'll notice an accent and maybe halfway through the conversation that you're straining to have, you'll say, hey, where are you?
		Oh, Bangladesh.
unidentified		Yeah, well, I think I'm.
unidentified		Pakistan, India.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, it's amazing what's going on.
unidentified		Well, the problem here is that we're being deindustrialized by a fascist dictatorship with slave labor.
unidentified		And when they lower the boom by dropping that 8.27 wands per dollar and let the wand float, which they're supposed to do according to the GATT Treaty, why then the value of the dollar will drop and the price of all our goods and services will go up because things won't be that cheap anymore.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're right.
		It's going to be a rough ride.
		We have a tough economic ride ahead of us.
		And if you listen carefully, again, you know, messengers are shot, at least metaphorically.
		I mean, last night's guest, Kyle, painted a fairly dismal picture of our current economic situation with regard to our place in the world right now and what's going on around us.
		Fairly dismal.
		And speaking of dismal pictures, I just wait till you hear what's coming up next.
		Dr. Brian Sykes, who's one of the world, and I really mean this, the world's foremost geneticists, is going to be with us.
		And he contends that it's, well, it's later than you think, guys.
		Well, actually, it's later than you think for guys.
		In other words, eventually there will be no more men.
		That's it.
		We're done.
unidentified		The Y chromosome is crumbling.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that's what makes men.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high deserts, stay right where you are, because we'll be right back.
unidentified		Music Out the street, I've been talking to a man.
		He said it's all my brothers never mind.
		One interview changed the cake.
		Now I'm stepping into the twilight zone The rest is in my house Feels like being blown I'll be running through Out the moon and summer And I know now that I've gone so far You were
		gone, you were gone When the bullet is born You were gone, you were gone When the bullet is born When the bullet is born To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Art Bell from East to the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
		From west to the Rockies, call ARP at 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach Art Bell by calling your in-country sprint access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What a title of the book is Adam's Curse, A Future Without Men.
		I'll tell you an interesting story about this in a moment.
		Professor Brian Sykes, Professor of Human Genetics at the University of Oxford, is one of the world's leading geneticists.
		After undertaking medical research into the causes of inherited bone disease, he discovered DNA could survive in ancient bones, and he was the first to report on the recovery of ancient DNA from archaeological bones in the journal Nature in 1989.
		Since then, Professor Sykes has been called in as the leading international authority to examine several high-profile cases, such as the Iceman, Shatterman, And the many individuals claiming to be members of the Russian royal family.
		Remember that controversy.
		Professor Sykes and his research team have, over the last decade, compiled the most complete DNA family tree of our species yet available.
		They are the founders of Oxford Ancestors Limited, the world's leading provider of DNA-based services for use in personal ancestry research.
		Now, Adam's Curse, of course, is, well, you may remember, it was several months ago.
		I absolutely went over the top when I read it.
		It was a news flash that went around the world that Professor Zykes had discovered that the Y chromosome was deteriorating and that the literal truth might be that in 100,000 years, or whatever the figure was, I can't recall now, it was in all the AP and UPI reports, man would cease to exist, cease to exist.
		There would be no more men in the world.
		And it really caught my attention.
		I said, we have got to find Professor Sykes.
		Well, it was a long journey indeed, but we have found him.
		And in such an unlikely place, the phone number I called here a little while ago was 01144, and then the rest of the number.
		And 44 is a designator for England, so I was sure I was calling Great Britain.
		And sure enough, it rang.
		There was a long wait, and then it rang, and then I got a very cellular type answer on the other end of the line, and there was Professor Sykes.
		And I said, oh, gosh, it's a bad connection, you know, transatlantic weight and all that.
		He said, well, why don't you call me here at the local number?
		And I said, okay, what's that?
		And he reels off an area code 206.
		So Professor Sykes is currently in the country.
		He's actually in the Seattle area somewhere, 206.
		And here I had called a transatlantic, well, it bounced there and bounced back.
		And he was actually in Seattle.
		A wonderful surprise.
		coming up from seattle in a moment professor brian site Professor Sykes, it is an honor to have you on the program.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's a great pleasure for me to be on it, heart.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Peace long.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm over here in America because the U.S. edition of Adam's Curse just published last week, so that's the fortunate reason that you're able to call me really just down the road rather than across the Atlantic and Pacific or wherever it was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
		Wonderful.
		I have a copy of the hardback book here.
		It is a beautiful book, by the way.
		Very well done.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		That's a nice colour, isn't it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is, indeed.
		And so you should be very proud of it.
		Is this the first book of this magnitude that you have published?
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		I wrote another book a couple of years ago called The Seven Daughters of Eve.
		And you can see there's a connection between the two, that one being mostly about the history of women, or at least what DNA tells us about the history of women.
		Whereas this one, Adam's Curse, as well as being about the extinction of men, is about what my research has discovered about the history of men.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm sure we'll somehow get to all of that.
unidentified		I'm sure we will.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		We've got plenty of time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We sure do.
		That's the beauty of radio.
		It really is.
		Long-form radio.
		There's nothing in the world like it.
		It is a shocking claim, you know, that human males.
		Are you sure when they talk to you about publishing and perishing, you didn't interpret it to mean publish about perish?
		No, huh?
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		This is a long time in the future.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, how long?
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, if we start talking about that, we're going to be talking about the end of the book before we go through all the arguments in the process.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		All right, so just, I mean, I'm sure we'll get to it before the program finishes, but just to, I mean, I think it's a process which, for reasons we'll have loads of time to go into, is inevitable, but the time scale, whenever you say something will happen, you're going to be asked, well, when.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		So I've made various assumptions and come up with a figure about 5,000 generations from now, that is around about 100,000, 125,000, maybe 150,000 years, something like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How is this going to happen, Professor?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And through what means were you able to discern this?
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Well, why don't we talk about the rest of the book and we'll come to that because it really is at the end of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Because if I answer that question straight away, it would take me about 20 minutes to get through the...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then why don't we ask you instead, then you're saying that basically we're only genetically modified women anyway.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you mean by that?
unidentified		Yeah.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think that there's not actually all that much dispute about that.
		The motive for writing Adam's curse was because I wanted to try and sort of bring out the genetic reasons behind and the consequences of the fact that something that's perfectly blindingly obvious to everybody and it actually affects us every single day, which is that our species, unlike every species actually, is divided into males and females.
		And well, you know, we could talk an entire program about the repercussions of that in our everyday social encounters.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Professor, is the ratio roughly exactly 50-50?
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Not quite, actually.
		At birth, there's slightly more males born, but they're always rather a bit weaker.
		They don't live as long, of course.
		Men die before women.
		And I think there's a genetic reason underlying that.
		So let me just start off with this genetically modified women business.
		Well, it is the case that there's a little chromosome which Men have and women don't have.
		And on that chromosome is one particular gene.
		And what it does is to flip a genetic switch when we're us boys, when we were only six weeks after fertilization, so very soon after we were conceived.
		This switch flicks and it ignites a whole relay of genetic reactions which take us away from what we otherwise would have become, which is girls.
		And it takes us away from that bit by bit turns us into boys.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
		Yeah, and is it a matter of chance with regard to that switch?
		In other words, could it as easily not be thrown as thrown?
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's usually thrown.
		If people have a Y chromosome, if fetuses I mean have a Y chromosome, they almost always end up as males.
		But occasionally, and this is how we know about how this works, occasionally there's something wrong with this switch and it doesn't get thrown.
		then?
		In that case, the natural course of events continues and those children, those babies are born female, even though they've actually got a Y chromosome.
		So that's how we know that the Y chromosome is right at the heart of the matter and that if it's not working, then the natural progression is changing.
		It carries on and becomes female.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fully, functionally normal female.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that true?
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Pretty much, but for a complicated chromosomal reason, they're usually sterile.
		But often very beautiful, as a matter of fact.
		These are XY females, and there's a number of them actually made a career in modelling, believe it or not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How rare are they, Professor?
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		How rare are they?
		There's about one in between one in five and one in 10,000 are birthed, something like that.
		So, you know, not exceptionally rare.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
		Yeah.
		Certainly more common than I, in fact, you're telling me something new altogether.
		Well, then this might be the right place for Arlene's question.
		She sent one in by email before you got here, and I thought it was pretty good.
		She asks, my theory is, maybe as the Y chromosome deteriorates, so do the actual resultant transitory human individuals.
		Therefore, we begin to see increasing numbers of homosexuals.
		Is it possible that homosexuality is merely an expression of the Y chromosome being in an in-between stage?
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's a very good question.
		And I do, there's a chapter in Adam's Curse about homosexuality, but I think it's a bit more subtle than that, actually.
		That although the Y chromosome is deteriorating slowly, and we can go into how slowly and what the reasons for that are, I'm not myself convinced that it's that which is the cause of at least male homosexuality.
		Now, I don't really know whether homosexuality is increasing or decreasing, but when I've talked about Adam's curse, I've had many people say, well, in my experience, in my neighbourhood, then male homosexuality is increasing.
		But I can't say that it's due, in response to Arlene's question, that it's clearly due to some changes in the Y chromosome.
		But we may get on to at some time what I think may be behind or maybe a cause of male homosexuality.
		But it's a very subtle one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But you don't necessarily see a connection, is what you're saying.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		I don't necessarily see a connection between the Y chromosome and male homosexuality.
		But as I'm sure we'll get on to, the Y chromosome is actually involved in a very bitter genetic war with the Y chromosome being transmitted from father to son is, if you like, a sort of proxy for the history and the history of the male sex.
		And certainly, because it can only go from one generation to the next through the male sex and not through the female sex, because it's transmitted from father to son, it's completely opposed to another gene called mitochondrial DNA, which I wrote about in my first book, The Seven Daughters of Eve, which is passed from down the female line.
		So here you have two, if you like, warring genes that will never make peace.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You actually described a Y chromosome as a genetic ruin, a wasteland littered with molecular wreckage, a graveyard of rotting genes.
		Oh, gosh, that sounds terrible.
		Is that really it?
		Yes, is that really a fair description?
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, now we're able to look at detail in what the Y chromosome looks like.
		It certainly is in a bit of a mess.
		And it used to, years ago, millions of years ago in our mammalian ancestors, the Y chromosome started off as an X chromosome, almost certainly, with thousands of different genes on it.
		over a period of millions of years, lost most of those genes, only has 27 left now.
		And in between those genes, which are...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you hear it there?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can, yes.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		It's not coming from mind as far as I can.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You might just move that phone around or the wire around a little bit and see if it comes and goes.
		Anyway, so the Y chromosome is under constant attack, you said, virtually at war.
		And I guess the presumption is it is, over time, going to lose the war.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		It will lose the war, yes.
		It'll lose the war because it is deteriorating.
		And mutations are accumulating at quite a fast rate.
		And it is a common cause, these mutations on the Y chromosome, a common cause of male infertility these days.
		And the calculations, the estimates, if you like, of how long I think that the Y chromosome has left is based on what we see now, the mutations in that chromosome that are causing male infertility.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Professor, if it's 100 or 125,000 years out, whatever that number turns out to be, there's going to be a time between now and then where there are increasing numbers of infertile men.
		Really?
		I heard some sort of startling statistics about that not very long ago.
		It's already starting to happen now, isn't it?
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it is.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		I mean, 7% of men are not completely infertile, but they're sub-fertile.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		That's a very high percentage.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you say 7%?
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		7%.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		7%, alright?
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		7% of men.
		And of those, between 1 and 2%, that's not of the 7%, but between 1 and 2% of men are their infertility, or sub-fertility, if you like, is caused by mutations on the Y chromosome.
		So that's very, very high.
		And because clearly their fathers could not have been infertile, these must be new mutations that are happening, or many of them, new mutations that are happening in these men themselves.
		So it's very startling.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that is startling.
		And is it going to be a linear deterioration?
		Or will the process at some point go through a sudden acceleration?
		Or between now and 125,000 years, is it going to be linear, more and more and more infertile men?
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I think so.
		I think it will.
		If Y chromosomes are completely, rendered completely infertile by mutation, then they won't get further because they clearly won't have any sons.
		But there are mutations which reduce fertility, and those are the ones that will get through to the next generation, but will produce males that are less fertile than their fathers.
		And that's the accumulated effect, which I believe will mean that in that sort of timeframe that we've been talking about, that fertility will decrease to a level of about 1% of what it is now.
		And when that point is reached, I call that a day for the Y chromosome.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Those are going to be a very popular 1%, aren't they?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And there's going to be a lot to understand.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I don't know, they're going to be...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm just trying to find some little bright side of this somewhere.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		I know, I know.
		It's not necessarily...
		But this is a process that this is one of the features of the Y chromosome, which, I mean, in the book, which is, again, we are really talking about the end of the book now, rather than the rest of it, but in the book,
		because my main research has been looking at what the Y chromosome can tell us about the history, our own human history and the history of men, it's clear from my research and those other people that some Y chromosomes have done remarkably well.
		And those are Y chromosomes that have been associated with extremely unsavoury historical figures for the last while.
		Really?
		Oh, yeah.
		So the most extreme example which I've come across, work done by some other Oxford scientists, was to track down the Y chromosome of Genghis Khan, the Mongol emperor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Now Genghis Khan lived in the 12th century and work in Central Asia has shown that 16 million men are his direct descendants, so they have his Y chromosome.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And a great big bold capital Y, right?
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, okay.
		Professor, hold on.
		We're already at the bottom of the hour.
		So we'll take a bit of a break here.
		Genghis Khan, I suppose, huh?
		And then even the bad guys, the Hitlers of the world, the ruthless dictators of the world.
		Great big capital Ys.
		You're going to learn a lot tonight, so am I, I'm sure.
		Professor Brian Sykes, author of a brand new book that you're going to want to check out.
unidentified		It's called Adam's Curse.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert, middle of the night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		You're always talking about your crazy nights.
		One of the days you don't forget it, like you don't break me down.
		I don't know what you can do.
		I'll tell you what's wrong before I get off the floor.
		Don't break me down.
		You're looking good'cause I just stick in the grass.
		To talk with Art Bell.
		Call mobile card line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll-free at 80825-5033.
		From west of the Rockies, call 800618-8255.
		International callers may recharge by calling your in-country spread access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free, 800-893-0903.
		From coast to coast, and worldwide on the internet.
		This is Coast to Coast Again, with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what a guest we've got.
		Professor of Human Genetics at the University of Oxford.
		Professor Brian Sykes is our guest.
		He's saying that another 100,000 years or so, there will be no more men because the Y chromosome is virtually...
		It's falling apart.
unidentified		It's a genetic mess.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll be right back.
		I believe we were last talking about Genghis Khan and so forth, and they've got the big capital Ys.
		I guess that would apply to the Hitlers and the big, bad, rough, ruthless dictators in the world and generally violent people.
		Am I on the right track there?
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Well, what distinguishes, let me ask you a question, what distinguishes all those types of people?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Testosterone, I guess?
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		They're all men, aren't they?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Testosterone, yeah.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		They're all men.
		And in Adam's Curse, I've developed the idea that, well, not necessarily causing it, the Y chromosome really of these men really benefits from their bad behaviour.
		So it's a sort of moot point about which is driving which.
		Was Genghis Khan driving his Y chromosome to great success?
		Or look at it the other way, was it Genghis Khan's Y chromosome that was actually driving him to do the things he did?
		And what did he do?
		Well, he started the largest land empire ever known, the Mongol Empire.
		He invaded adjoining countries.
		He invaded a fantastic army.
		He killed all the men and he brought the women along or had them brought along and he inseminated all the women one by one.
		And that's how his Y chromosome spread.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's why he has so many, has produced so many capital Y's.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's very interesting.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		And I think it's an obvious tendency of people, especially in times gone by maybe, or in different parts of the world now, men who have a lot of power and wealth and status, not all of them, but more than most men, do tend, when they can, to accumulate large numbers of women.
		There's fantastic numbers of tens of thousands of concubines, for example, that were kept for the exclusive use of some well-attested historical despots or emperors.
		So the two things are very much interlinked.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But there would be another side to that, Professor, wouldn't there?
		And that would be that some of the greatest achievements were testosterone-driven as well.
		I mean, some of mankind's greatest achievements indeed.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's right.
		That's right.
		So you're absolutely right.
		So the fact that we exist as two sexes, male and female, has driven our evolution, particularly, I think, in the last 10,000 years.
		And we may go into the reason why it's in the last 10,000 years.
		And it has driven very many aspects of our evolution.
		And that works by a type of evolution.
		It's not natural selection, which is the one that Darwin is best known for, but another of his theories, which is sexual selection.
		And it's not usually been appreciated that sexual selection is going on in our own species, but well known in others.
		So perhaps the most familiar example is the peacock's tail.
		Male peacocks have a huge and elaborate tail, very colourful, very, to us, very beautiful.
		And the pea hens, the female peacocks, are by comparison dull and well camouflaged.
		Now what's driven the male peacock to become like that?
		It's been a slow evolution of male peacocks growing a tail, then one will have a slightly better tail and will attract more mates and therefore his genes will pass on preferentially to the next generation.
		And then the tail gets bigger and bigger.
		But it's also driven not just by men growing bigger, by men, by male peacocks growing bigger Tails, but by the male peacocks, their evolution, the evolution of their tail, being driven by the choice of the peahens, because they must be able to appreciate these tails for that evolution to occur.
		So it's a cycle, a cycle of sexual selection, and it can happen and transform a species very, very quickly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that is a sort of natural selection, though, isn't it?
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		It's natural, yes, but Darwin was careful to distinguish the two.
		It's certainly natural, but it's not as if, you know, our evolution, the reason I'm talking about the peacock is because I see parallels there between what's happened in the peacock and the evolution of our own species over the last 10,000 years, which has been extraordinarily rapid, hugely rapid.
		I mean, we don't appreciate that necessarily because we live in, you know, we're actually in this modern world, but it's been extremely fast.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Quite right.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		And why is that?
		Well, the idea that I advanced in Adam's Curse is that men use wealth and power and status in the same way that peacocks use their tails, evolved in a parallel fashion.
		And why didn't they evolve before?
		It's because there were no such things as wealth and property and ownership before the invention of agriculture.
		Agriculture comes along, then land becomes owned, flocks of domestic animals become owned, wealth begins to accumulate.
		Prior to that, we were really struggling to make a living anywhere, just wandering around as hunter-gatherers by and large in small bands.
		We didn't have any property.
		We didn't have anything to own.
		So that couldn't be factored into the ever-present possibilities for sexual selection.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, why then, given the state of the world today, aren't the Donald Trumps of the world just putting lots of capital Y's out there?
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Well, they probably are.
		They probably are.
		They certainly have been.
		They certainly have been in the past.
		And that's how, because my research team has been looking at Y chromosomes distributed throughout the world.
		And we see very clearly particular Y chromosomes that have done really extraordinarily well.
		And they're, by and large, well, always so far, linked back to historical figures who have not necessarily been as cruel and unpleasant as Genghis Khan, but certainly associated very strongly with wealth and power.
		And the best examples, I suppose, of those are the chiefs of Scottish clans, where we've done some work and linked back, for example, amongst the MacDonalds.
		20% of people called MacDonald are related directly to the founder of the clan, again living about the same time as Ingiskhan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Isn't that something?
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		And those chromosomes, those Y chromosomes, they're probably getting on for 400,000, half a million of these Y chromosomes.
		A lot of them, of course, in the United States and Canada, having come from this one man.
		So over the course of 700, 800 years, they've increased in frequency from one in the original man to getting on for half a million.
		And that's an incredible increase in any kind of evolutionary sense.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then what's going wrong?
		I guess.
		What's going wrong here?
		The Ys, it seems like, should be prolific.
		And to some degree, you can look at the real capital Y's out there, and they certainly seem to be doing their very best to proliferate.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's the irony, because they clearly have a story to tell about great proliferations, great wealth, great power of these historical figures, the Scottish clan chiefs, Genghis Khan, and many other minor examples.
		And the irony is that the Y chromosome, which indirectly causes this, I think, this evolution of this kind of behavior and the desire to accumulate wealth and property to, if you
		like, to parallel the peacock's tail, that actually the Y chromosome, which is what tells me as a genesis about this, is itself far from being anything like...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is an irony, isn't it?
		So weaken getting weaker, and you're suggesting it's under a constant assault.
		We're going to see infertility.
		Will it have any other measurable genetic effects on offspring as time goes on?
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		That's big enough, isn't it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it is.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
		Let me say something about why this is, not why, the reason, not to confuse the terminology, the reason that the Y chromosome is so particularly fragile.
		Well, there are two reasons.
		The first is that unlike all our other chromosomes, we have 23 other chromosomes in our bodies, unlike all of those, it doesn't actually exchange DNA with other chromosomes at each generation.
		And that's something that all the other chromosomes do.
		And the process of exchanging DNA, swapping it around, actually heals mutations.
		So the Y chromosome can't heal its mutations anywhere near as effectively as the other chromosomes.
		And also, it actually mutates at a faster rate than the other chromosomes.
		So an interesting but actually logical reason, and that's the following.
		Because the Y chromosome is passed from father to son, it's passed, of course, through sperm.
		And the Y chromosome, so your Y chromosome, well, passed to, you've got it from your father, who got it from his father and from his father, always in sperm.
		And therefore, it spends its entire life from generation to generation, over dozens, hundreds of generations, always in the germ line of males.
		That's to say, the cells that are going to produce sperm.
		Those are a very unhealthy place for DNA to be because mutations happen when cells divide and cells divide at a very, very fast rate in the testes in order so that men can produce 100 million sperm a day or something like that.
		And it's an incredible fact that the DNA in a man of 60 has already been copied 1,000 times.
		And so the Y chromosome in a man of 60 has been copied 1,000 times.
		And although the other chromosomes have also been copied, over time they actually spend, it's a bit hard to get across, but they actually spend half their time, not in the cells that produce sperm, but in the cells that produce eggs.
		Because they sort of swap around from males to females as the generations pass.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're saying that a man at 60 years of age, it's like his Y has been copied on a bad copy machine a thousand times?
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		It's a pretty good copying machine, actually, but yes, a thousand times.
		So that's, of course, not all men are 60 when they reproduce, but you can see that over a thousand generations, let's say, then that's a million times it's been copied.
		And without the ability to repair those mutations, clearly it's something, it's an unstable system that will degenerate, and it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Isn't that an evolutionary outrage, Professor?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, why would design be such?
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Well, now, what we're on to there is an interesting thing that actually evolution, though it seems to us, to have design, doesn't have design at all.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		It has no plans for the future.
unidentified		Uh-oh.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		It has no plans for the future.
		It's been, without getting into the arguments of evolution by natural selection versus creationism, which we could spend the entire program talking about, without getting into that argument, it's always been very difficult for evolutionary biologists to understand what is going on with evolution.
		And it doesn't seem that it's sufficient to say, I mean, it's certainly not the case that there's any kind of design element.
		All that happens is that things change with time and particularly good traits of things tend to increase because rather like the peacock's tail example, they get passed on preferentially to the next generation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I've got that, but not in the case of the Y chromosome.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, no, exactly so.
		But there's nothing that nature can do to help, really.
		It's just unfortunate that our ancient ancestors, the ancestors of the mammals, very early mammals, decided, well they didn't decide, I mean this happened, that the way of, if you like, producing males and females was put down to a chromosome.
		Because in lots of other animals, it's not done by chromosomes at all.
		I mean, we're covering a lot of ground here, but for example, in your American alligators, the sex of the offspring there is not decided by a chromosome, it's decided instead by the temperature at which the egg is incubated.
		But once in the early mammals cases, a chromosome had been given that job of deciding whether an embryo would develop into a male or a female.
		That chromosome was doomed to the gradual decay that we've been talking about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But one imagines evolution, Professor, to be by its very nature a very efficient process.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's efficient by killing off or not letting survive anything that doesn't really work.
		And so it appears to be efficient because what's left, what's survived, is still going.
		And logically, if we accept that the Y chromosome is gradually deteriorating.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know if I can accept that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're slowly turning into an appendix.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Sort of, yes, sort of.
		But it does have an extremely high mutation rate.
		And it's not just going to affect us, of course.
		It'll affect other mammals.
		It's just in the long term, the very long term, a really, really bad way of trying to determine whether embryos turn out into males or females.
		And it might well see the end of mammals altogether.
		But that's hundreds of millions of years into the future.
		There's a design flaw in the way we and other mammals decide sex.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, perhaps only we see it as a flaw, and evolution sees it just as the way it happens.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, it's done reasonably well for over the last hundreds of millions of years.
		And incidentally, I mean, there's a little-known theory going around.
		I mean, the mammals were getting nowhere while the dinosaurs were around.
		Only when the dinosaurs died out did they really start to make their mark.
		And dinosaurs may have, we don't know this, but if they're anything like the alligator or the turtle, they may too have relied on the temperature at which their eggs were incubated to decide whether they were going to be turn out to be males or females.
		And so let's say, for example, that if the dinosaur eggs were incubated at a high temperature, they turn out to be females, and at a low temperature, they turn out to be males.
		now.
		I think most people believe that the dinosaurs were finished off by a meteorite that lowered the temperature of the earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Professor, we're going to have I can't believe it.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we can carry on with that.
unidentified		Good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Stay right there, and we'll be right back.
		We have one of the world's greatest geneticists with us tonight, Professor Brian Sykes, who's written a brand new book.
		You're going to want to read this one.
		It's called Adam's Curse.
unidentified		Adam's Curse
		To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Art Bell from East of the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
		From West of the Rockies, call ART at 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach Art Bell by calling your in-country spread access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And we are honored with one of the world's greatest geneticists, Professor Brian Sykes.
		He's written a book called Adam's Curse, basically.
		Adam's Curse is that Adam, all of us, men, in another 100,000 years or so, we're going to be gone.
unidentified		No more men.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It seems impossible.
		And I suppose we'll discuss some of the ramifications and what kind of world that'll be.
		Or the professor thinks it might be.
		We will get to that.
		We're back with the dinosaurs at the moment.
		pickup there right after this So the evolutionary future unfolding may not include men eventually.
		Anyway, we were discussing dinosaurs, I believe, and you said man really didn't take off until the dinosaurs did.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		That's right, yeah.
		The mammals really didn't take off, but nobody's quite sure why the dinosaurs died out, but here's an idea.
		Alligators and turtles, they both both allow on chromosomes to decide which is going to be a male and female.
		The eggs decide on the basis of how cold or cool or warm the eggs are when they're being incubated.
		Right.
		So let's take a turtle for example.
		If the eggs are incubated at 34 degrees centigrade Celsius, they all hatch as females.
		If they're all incubated at 26 degrees, they all hatch as males.
		So usually they're kind of in between.
		Some hatch as males, some as females.
		Now for dinosaurs use the same system, of course, and suddenly the temperature of the Earth went down dramatically by a few degrees, as a lot of people think when this meteor hit 65 million years ago, blanketing the Earth in dust and reducing the temperature,
		almost like a nuclear winter, really, then the dinosaurs and any other creatures that used temperature of eggs to determine sex would have ended up, in the case if they had that sort of hot female, cool male system, all the dinosaurs would have been male.
		And of course they'd have gone overnight.
		So if that were the case, and it's not proven or even much thought about actually, but it would be one way that what had up to then been an extremely good way of deciding sex and evolutionarily perfectly in tune and had lasted for many hundreds of millions or hundreds of millions of years, they'd have gone overnight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Professor, Wouldn't that mean that as perhaps an asteroid or whatever could have accomplished that, perhaps even a rapid cyclical climate change would have done the same thing, huh?
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Well, it would have to be pretty pretty rapid, really.
		An asteroid or a large meteor impact, which is thought by many, and there's evidence of this to have happened, reduce the temperature.
		Any organism that defends, or any animal that depends on temperature to decide sex, would have the sex ratios, the ratios between males and females, drastically altered.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But there are those troublesome bully mammas with the frozen greenery in their mouths.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Those, yeah, that's right.
		That's right.
		I think they die for other reasons.
		They were regular mammals, no doubt about that.
		But the point I was trying to get at is that the way in which sex is decided is not necessarily going to save a species or save a whole order of animals.
		And I think in the case of the mammals relying, as we have, on chromosomes, and once we've done that, the chromosome that decides sex is doomed to ultimate decay.
		Well, nothing's going to help.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Nothing will help.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Well, the only thing that's going to help is if we, now realizing this danger, could actually do something about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Manipulate.
		You know, Mike in Utah says, not all genetic mutations are bad.
		It seems like many could actually improve the viability of the Y chromosome.
		How do you take that into account?
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		It's quite right.
		Not all mutations are bad.
		And you probably find that some mutations on Y chromosomes have helped to boost fertility.
		But most mutations are damaging.
		And I think the number of bad mutations for the reasons that the Y chromosome is always restrained to the testes of germline cells of men will eventually overtake the occasional good mutation that results because of that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So this battle is ongoing.
		The deterioration is ongoing.
		And you suggest it will be a linear deterioration until finally the end, out at 100,000, 125,000 years, whatever.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's if the world lasts that long, of course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, not such a good bet to take.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Quite right.
		And that, you know, and I develop the theme that that is the other side of Adam's curse.
		That the, if you like, the peacock's tail equivalent in our own species is the accumulation of wealth and power and property and so on.
		And the thing about the peacock's tail is that it can only grow so large.
		If a peacock has...
		So a leopard wandering along would soon finish him off.
		But with our sort of social equivalent of the peacock's tail, wealth and power, property status and those sorts of things, there is no limit to the amount that individuals can accumulate in the same way that there is to the size of the peacock's tail.
		So the only limit really is the ability of our planet to sustain the production of sufficient wealth and power and status and those kinds of things.
		So in that sense, whether the Earth lasts for 100,000 years to witness the eventual extinction of men through the Y chromosome, if it doesn't last that long, it's because of the Y chromosome's other effect.
		So Adam's curse, in that sense, is a double whammy, a double blow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I suppose somebody with a great big colorful tail might one day push the wrong button, and then we wouldn't make our 100,000 years anyway.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		No, we would not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, so let's for a second jump back, because it's such a big question in society.
		I don't know.
		Perhaps in your research, you have made some determination about homosexuality, and so many numbers are tossed about.
		Is male, well, homosexuality, period, is it on the increase?
		Do you have any statistics that would tell us whether it's actually increasing or has it been static for as long as we know?
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Well, Art, I'm sorry to disappoint you, but I'm not an expert on homosexuality.
		I have a chapter in the book, An Adam's Curse, about it.
		But as for knowing the statistics which you asked me about, I won't say anything because I really don't know much about it, and it's best to say that straight out, really.
		Clearly, homosexuality.
		The reason I was interested in writing about it was the following.
		About ten years ago, there were, a little over ten years ago, there was a couple of scientific papers which said that they had found a gay gene.
		I don't know if you remember that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I vaguely do, yes.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		And it didn't really make any sense to me or a lot of other geneticists at the time because if there were a gay gene, let's say that such a thing existed, then clearly in these present day anyway, I think it's probably true that male homosexuals have less offspring, less children than straight men.
		So that gay gene, If a man had it, a gay man had it, he would not be passing on to the next generation.
		And under those circumstances, it's very, very difficult to see how gay genes would have ever got to the present generation, if you like, at anywhere like the numbers if that was the sole cause of male homosexuality.
		Those genes would not have got through.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Professor, do you believe there will ever be any discovery in genetics that ties itself to homosexuality?
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's what I was going to go on to.
		I've had a look back at the original papers that purported to find and reported the gay gene, and I've sort of come to the conclusion, I mean it's a very tentative and provocative proposal,
		that there is no such thing as a gay gene itself, but that male homosexuality, and don't ask me about female homosexuality because it doesn't apply, is actually the one consequence of a very fundamental genetic battle that's going on between the Y chromosome on one hand and
		these other genetic entities called mitochondria on the other.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in a way, my emailer, Arlene, was sort of onto something.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		I believe there is that genetics is a genetic component to male homosexuality, but it's not a gay gene as such.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But what you're suggesting is fascinating, and what you're suggesting would mean that as this process continues, generation after generation, the numbers of homosexuals, if that's true, would probably increase, wouldn't they?
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying, actually.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess I am.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		I'm not saying that it's got anything to...
		It's to do with the battle between mitochondria on the one hand and Y chromosomes on the other.
		Those two have entirely different genetic agendas.
		So mitochondria, which are passed from mother to daughter and so on through the generations, they have absolutely no interest.
		I mean, of course, we're kind of anthropomorphizing these genes, but it's helpful to look at them in that way.
		They have no interest.
		A woman's mitochondria has no interest in her ever having sons, because that mitochondria is not going to get anywhere through her having sons.
		In the same way, Y chromosomes, a man's Y chromosome has no interest at all in him having daughters.
		So here you have two polar opposites.
		And if you believe, as I do and many others do, that genes actually are a very important determinant of evolution, then to have that real completely different conflict of interest between two genes is going to play out in many ways.
		And looking, for example, taking the mitochondria, the one that, if you like, the one that is going from female to female has no interest whatsoever in males, it's now emerging that males do inherit mitochondria, but they don't pass it on because there's none in sperm to speak of.
		So mitochondria have no interest in males, and it's now emerging that quite a lot of diseases which men get, including aging and many of these other things, which men suffer earlier than women, is actually caused by mitochondrial decay.
		So what I'm getting at here in a very roundabout way is that mitochondria are slowly killing men and preserving women.
		I mean, that's why, so many people think, that men get older quicker and die younger than women.
		And so what's it got to do with homosexuality?
		Well, the other thing that mitochondria do is to, that women do, unconsciously of course, is that they do often abort unconsciously,
		a very early age, miscarry, and the first, there's an excess of male fetuses that are miscarried in the very first few weeks of pregnancy.
		Often unknown.
		Women don't know they're even pregnant when this happens.
		And you could, and I do suggest in my book, that this is another aspect of mitochondria trying to destroy male fetuses.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's pretty controversial, R.I. Well, it's controversial.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		And a thing about being a geneticist is that you think about things sometimes and you have to, in a rather impersonal way.
		But then, of course, naturally, you sort of say these things, interpreting them on a sort of very large evolutionary time scale.
		And of course, especially late miscarriages are absolute tragedies.
		Early ones, very early ones, often not known about.
		But I think the war between mitochondria and the Y chromosome is so bitter that it wouldn't stop at that.
		Now, what about the Y chromosomes?
		How do they sort of fight back?
		Well, Y chromosomes themselves are in a rather weak position because they're very vulnerable.
		if this war really is going on, which I believe it is, they're very vulnerable in those nine months that they spend as going from one generation to another in the body of a woman.
		And so they must they must fight back against the tendency to try and eliminate all male fetuses which mitochondria have.
		And here's where the male homosexuality comes in.
		Since there is a balance, there must be a balance between these two forces, otherwise one would have dominated already.
		And there's a possibility and there's evidence to suggest this in the looking back at the original pedigrees of family studies where the gay gene was first found.
		Male homosexuals have fewer have fewer uncles than aunts.
		So their mothers have got fewer sisters, sorry, fewer brothers and sisters.
		Which, if we build this into this idea I was just talking about, suggests that male homosexuals' mothers, their own mothers have been actually very adept at eliminating male fetuses.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was going to say winning the battle.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they've won the battle.
		So what is the next stage if you can't kill a male fetus?
		What's the next best thing you can do?
		And that is to make sure that Y chromosomes don't succeed the next generation is to, if you can, to adjust their sexual preference so that they never breed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's insidious.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		So that they become homosexual.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it's insidious, isn't it?
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		It's very insidious and it's one way as a genesis that I look at this battle, but it's a very, very interesting, a very, very deadly battle that's going on between the two.
		Well, in the case of homosexuality, as I said, I don't know the statistics about whether or not the male homosexuality is increasing, and I don't know the figures about that.
		And what I'm just suggesting, which is really sticking my neck out, is just taking food for thought.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I certainly caught what you're suggesting.
		Professor, hold on a moment.
		We'll get right back to you.
		Within the women's body, there's a war going on.
		It's a war against males, actually, and the war is being won by the females.
		And the result of that, in one particular case, might be homosexuality.
		I'm Mark Bell.
unidentified		Leave me this way.
		I can't survive.
		We can't say the lie without your love.
		Oh, baby.
		When it's all right and it's coming on, we gotta get right back to where we started wrong.
		Love is good, love can be strong, we gotta get right back to where we started wrong.
		Oh, baby.
		Do you remember that day when you first came my way?
		I said no one could take your way.
		And if you get hurt, if you get hurt by the little things I say, I can put that smile back on your face.
		When it's all right and it's coming on, we gotta get right back to where we started wrong.
		To talk with Art Bell.
		Call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
		From west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach ART by calling your in-country sprint access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Evolution takes us, obviously, along a lot of paths, but none of them are back where we started from.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We will, however, be right back.
unidentified		SHUT UP!
unidentified		music
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once again, you're listening to one of the world's greatest geneticists, Professor Brian Sykes.
		And here he is.
		I guess I was asking you, and I'll try again, whether you think or even would like to take a guess about whether this process is a static process and whether it would continue to produce in the population as this war goes on against nales,
		you know, a similar number of those with an inclination to homosexuality or whether it's also part of the overall battle that's going to ultimately be lost.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		I mean, that I suppose thinking about it, and I haven't predicted anything in the book, but if mitochondria, which is according to this idea that I put forward in the book,
		is at least partially responsible for male homosexuality, if they get very good at it, they will succeed better than mitochondria that aren't quite so good at it.
		And so I guess the predicted outcome from that would be that male homosexuality would increase.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would increase.
		Interestingly, Adam from Milwaukee, Wisconsin.
		Adam, can you believe it?
		Fascinating show, Art.
		I'm a gay male, and I have now taken notice of the fact that my mom has four sisters, no brothers.
		My grandma on her side of the family had three sisters, no brothers.
		Interesting.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, you know, you'd obviously have to have a lot more examples of that, but I suppose, you know, that's an interesting family.
		I think the studies which I quote in Adam's Curse are, you know, involved hundreds of, hundreds of gay men and actually I could have, I'll You might want to hit the database on that one.
		Well, it's called a book, chapter 23.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, as you get to it, you can get to it.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, what's that?
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		It's...
unidentified		I will get to...
unidentified		Does this...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Does this ultimately really mean professional?
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Here we are, I've got it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		A survey of nearly 500 gay men.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Their mothers had a total of 209 sisters, but only 132 brothers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		only smokes Indeed, or very close.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		So that's an impressive figure.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Adam from, where was he from?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You might.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Milwaukee.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Milwaukee, okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You might have another book here.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		But 209 against 132 is pretty skewed, isn't it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's still, I suppose, from a scientific point of view, a small sample, relatively, but yes.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know.
		I mean, it's not that small, actually.
		I mean, 209 to 132 is very significant, even though, of course, it's not absolutely huge, but it's very significant.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, shouldn't it be so significant as to cause more immediate research?
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's very odd, actually.
		Reading about the genetics of research into homosexuality from a genetic point of view, I mean, there was these papers that we've mentioned came out about just over ten years ago.
		And there was another paper that followed up to agree with the first one or corroborate the findings.
		And then there was a third paper which disagreed.
		That's actually not uncommon in genetics.
		And then nothing.
		So it's been totally dropped from the research agenda as far as I can see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that alone is fascinating.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As big of an issue, and it's a giant issue socially, so I'm really quite surprised that it's not being followed up on.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Well, it did cause a lot of stir at the time.
		I know a lot of gay men.
		I wasn't involved in this original research at all, but I've just, in my researching for Adam's Curse, read about the reactions to this.
		And while a lot of gay men welcome this research, and many have said quite vehemently that research into the genetics of male homosexuality just should not be done at all.
		Well, certainly the fact is that nothing has been done.
		But I think maybe this new angle that I'm hinting at, that there's no gay gene, but that male homosexuality is a consequence of this deeply embedded war, may stimulate a bit more research.
		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would you think that if something were proven in this area, Professor, that society would then view that as a disease?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or do you think society would be sold on the fact that it's just part of an unavoidable evolutionary change?
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		It certainly wouldn't be a disease.
		It certainly isn't a disease.
		It's, as I said, it's part of this deeply embedded and irreconcilable conflict, genetic conflict that goes on between men and women, between male and female.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I clearly have that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I just wonder if that would promote a general acceptance of that fact as opposed to what we have now.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Well, there are reminiscences of this kind of thing in other animals.
		I mean, there are actually other animals in which the war between the mitochondria and males goes on in many other animals.
		In fact, some insects, we're going a little off subject here, but some insects, for example, actually the mitochondria and other associated genes in the cell phytoplasm, as it's called, outside the nucleus, actually kill male embryos.
		I mean, stone dead.
		I mean, it's been observed extremely well documented.
		But the production of homosexual offspring has actually also been recorded in some other animals.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Many argue that's not true, and they use that as a platform to launch.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, you're saying that's a yes, it's certainly true in other animals.
		Also, but what the situation as I'm proposing that worth at least some serious examination is very reminiscent of a type of genetic altruism.
		So to cut a long story short, I don't think that male homosexuality in my plan, my idea, is a disease at all, but it's actually an example of genetic altruism.
		And the reason is that if a mitochondria that had produced a homosexual son, if that son did not marry but actually helped, this is complicated, so hold on, actually helped his mother bring up his sisters, that mitochondria would have a huge advantage and would spread.
		And that is a piece of genetic altruism whereby you're helping your own genes get through the next generation, not through yourself, but through your relatives.
		So it's seen a lot in other animals.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So on the side of the ultimate winners.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that's right.
		It's an altruism.
		It's certainly not a disease.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, fascinating.
		Oh, fascinating.
		All right.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		You see what us geneticists get up to every day.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess I do.
		Yes, I guess I do.
		Is there any way that you see that, and I bet there are many for you, that man will survive this, that man will learn to manipulate ourselves if we so desire back to a capital Y?
		And I suppose you have mixed feelings about that.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Right, okay, yes.
		Well, naturally, because I think this process of decay will carry on, I have thoughts, well, what can be done about it?
		Well, actually, it can be arrested by taking those genes which we know are necessary on the Y chromosome and rescuing them, taking them off, and by genetic manipulation, putting them onto other chromosomes out of harm's way, if you like.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really messing with Mother Nature?
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Well, really messing with those areas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And could it be that the only ultimate survival, remember we were speculating about whether the world would even survive that long?
		Could it be that for the ultimate survival of the species, this deterioration and final collapse of the Y chromosome has to happen?
		And if it doesn't happen, then the world will end.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Well, you've actually put your finger on it there, Arch.
		Yeah, now the question is, if the Y chromosome goes, or when the Y chromosome goes, and if there's no genetic manipulation solution, what will happen then?
		Well, as things stand, of course, as things stand, if males disappear, then women will also disappear as well.
		The whole species will become extinct.
		But I propose in my book, which I finished writing about a year ago, that it wouldn't be long before it was possible to create an embryo and eventually a human by fertilizing an egg, not with the sperm, but with another egg.
		So this would be where you took an egg from one woman and you mixed it, you injected essentially the egg from an, or the chromosomes of an egg from another woman, and to produce a re-implanted that you'd have to use the sort of in vitro fertilization techniques that we now have,
		implanted that back into one of the women, and that would produce a girl, and it would be a perfectly normal girl.
		Now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		With characteristic, genetic characteristics of both parents.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		With genetic characteristics of both parents.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		The only difference would be that both the parents would be women.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Female, yep, got it.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Now, I thought this was going to take a long time, but believe it or not, the week before last, there's a report in the journal Nature of exactly this having been done with a mouse.
		Some Japanese and Korean scientists took the egg from one mouse and fused it with the egg from another and created a mouse, a female mouse, which was born, from all appearances was completely normal, in fact went on to have a litter of her own.
		So it looks as though that is a distinct possibility that the race, sorry, not the race, the species could survive by fusing one egg with another and reproducing in that way without males whatsoever.
		Because of this mouse, the Japanese mouse, had no father and had no genetic input from a male at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But assuming an artificial womb, then men could do the same thing.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		well men could if you if you have an artificial william yes they could well if we're going to look a hundred thousand years into the future It gets complicated, doesn't it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it is.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		But what you were saying is very apt as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we're actually talking about cloning here.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Well, we're not talking about cloning.
		We'll come back to that.
		But would the world be more likely to survive if there were only women and no longer men?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Clearly, most people would answer yes.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		What do you think?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You want honesty, right?
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think the world would have a far better chance of survival if it were women that inherited.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		I agree.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		I agree.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's sort of embarrassing and hard to admit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But it might not be as magnificent a place, Professor.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		It certainly wouldn't be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Without all those whys.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Certainly not so much fun.
		Not so much fun.
		And not so interesting, but probably more peaceful, I think.
		So we would then touching on whether what the Japanese have done and the Japanese who created this mouse, this mouse, importantly, would not be a clone.
		That's very important.
		It's the same kind of natural mixture of genes as any other normal girl because it's had two different biological parents.
		Cloning will never really work in the long term for any species.
		And the reason is, interestingly enough, that cloning of course produces genetically identical copies of an organism, of an animal, plant.
		And that's fine.
		It's actually a very efficient way of reproducing, except that you're very vulnerable to being wiped out by parasites or pathogens.
		And we can see exactly this happening in the banana crop, of all things, in South America and Costa Rica.
		What's happened there is that all the bananas, in fact all the bananas in the world, are cloned.
		They're all reproduced, they don't reproduce sexually, they reproduce by cloning.
		They're just taken, one sort of cutting is taken and then transplanted onto another root.
		So what's happened in South America is that a fungus has unlocked the key to killing off one banana plant, if you like.
		And because all the other banana plants are genetically identical, it's now sweeping right across South America and it will eventually decimate the decimate the banana crop.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So as one is vulnerable, all are vulnerable since they're cloned.
		And so you're telling me it's the end of bananas?
		Yeah.
		That was yes?
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		It's the end of the bananas unless something's done about it, unless they introduce non-cloning reproduction eventually.
		It is a serious threat.
		I mean, it's not me that's saying it's the end of bananas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's horrible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's horrible.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, but that's the danger of cloning.
		So any species that relies on reproduction without sex, without males and females, is taking that risk.
		We, of course, and the reason is that you have genetic identity, and that's actually why sexual reproduction with males and females takes place at all.
		It's so that you mix up the genes at each generation and you protect the species against this kind of mass elimination by parasites or funguses or viruses or whatever.
		So in our case, there's been tremendous epidemics, pandemics even.
		There's one going on with AIDS, of course, now.
		But it won't kill everybody because there's a genetic variation to make sure a few survive at the very least.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Since you're a geneticist, I've really got what I think is a good question for you.
		Many times on this program, we talk about aliens as from another world, another planet, another whatever.
		And they're lovingly called grays.
		And I've always wondered, with all the interracial breeding that's going on, and boy, there's a lot of it going on in the world right now, eventually, it would be you that I'd have to ask, and I will after the break, won't we all be grays?
		Aren't we on the way to becoming the greys ourselves?
		Think about that.
unidentified		Aren't we well underway right now?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Aren't we headed toward becoming what we talk about?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The grays?
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Right?
unidentified		Sweet dreams are made of things Who am I to disagree?
		I travel the world and the seven seas Everybody's looking for something Some of them want to use you Some of them want to get used by you Some of them want to abuse you It
		was in us, it would be a burden We were gonna go all the way And we never had a doubt We were running with the night Laying in the shadows We were running with the night Till
		the morning light Are you ready?
		Whoa, I'm ready Tonight We were so
		young, you and me All of them want, one of them need Give me all we got Laying it down Take it and shout To the town To talk with Art Bell Call the wildcard line at area code
		775-727-1295 The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222 To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies Call soul free at 800-825-5033 From west of the Rockies Call Art at 800-618-8255
		International callers may reach our bell by calling your in-country sprint access number, pressing option 5, and filing full 3-800-893-0903.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh yeah, just one more thing, folks.
		Have you ever noticed in every depiction of an alien gray, every single one of them?
		Just one little thing.
		They're all female.
unidentified		Gunshot Gunshot Gunshot
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is interesting, isn't it?
		I mean, that what are depicted on the screen and in popular literature all over the world as the aliens, in quotes, they're the grays, right?
		And if you think about it, they're all females.
		I mean, just a thought, folks.
		Professor, since I have you here, I really would like to ask you a little bit about this.
		I mean, aren't we in the process of becoming the Grays?
unidentified		You'll have to explain a bit more what you mean, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		What I mean by that is in America now, why things have changed.
		Black people are no longer slaves.
		They're in our media.
		They have sex appeal.
		Asians are in our media.
		We have some of our biggest pop stars now.
		In other words, in our culture, we have really mixed.
		I mean, we have mixed marriages going on all over the place.
		A lot of people don't like it.
		That's fine for them.
		But it's happening.
		And the result of those mixed marriages ultimately is going to, is it not, erase the distinction between the variants?
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you sort of paint a completely fanciful scenario, supposing you sealed the borders now, and within America,
		that everyone or husbands and wives' marriages were totally random, that's to say, you wouldn't necessarily marry into someone in your ethnic group, which of course happens a lot.
		Eventually, you'd find that there would be a great sharing of characteristics, genetic characteristics, and more uniformity.
		Yes, you would.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		You would.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes, exactly.
		And that process is perhaps in its beginnings from an evolutionary point of view, but gee, I wonder how many generations of mixture you'd have to look at before you finally got to pretty much of a constant, or what appeared to be a constant anyway.
		It would ultimately occur, would it not?
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		The thing is, though, Art, that if you look back at the history of the world, and you can sort of glimpse this through genetic spectacles or telescopes, if you like, you soon realize that actually this kind of mixing that you're talking about is happening now in America has actually been always been happening.
		It's been happening ever since we started to evolve.
		There's never been any such thing as a pure race or a pure ethnic group.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, it's not.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		They themselves are mixtures.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but it's not always been socially as acceptable as it is now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so it's proliferating.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's hard to say whether it was socially acceptable or not in the past, but it certainly has always gone on.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		And I think what we're seeing in America and other parts of the world, of course, is really a mixing of people that not so long in the past were geographically separated by large distances.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right, yes.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		But it's a fallacy to think that mixing of this kind has not been going on throughout the entire history of human evolution.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it not genetically actually advantageous to have a very dissimilar mixture occur?
		Isn't the offspring frequently of these dissimilar mixtures advantaged in some manner because of the dissimilar nature of the genetic makeup?
		Is that true?
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's there's we're sort of going back to getting into dangerous territory here.
		I mean, because I live on dangerous territory.
		Right, okay, but there was a period if you not talking about humans now, but crossing different strains of plants, for example, there is a phenomenon called hybrid vigour, or hybrid vigour.
		And that aptly describes exactly what it is, that if you have hybrids, which in the plant sense means crossing different strains together, slightly genetically different, then you did get a robust form.
		But what what probably we don't realize um um in humans is that actually we're really, even though we may not think we are or even think we look like it, we actually are an extraordinarily recent species.
		So there hasn't been time for significant genetic differences to build up between people who live in different parts of the world.
		So that means that hybrid vigour, as it's called in the monster plants, where you're actually taking quite genetically dissimilar strains and crossing those and seeing a more vigorous hybrid when you had looked at those separate strains.
		We just haven't really had enough time to develop sufficiently distinct genetic differences between different people in different parts of the world.
		We are an incredibly recent species.
		We originated in Africa, a Homo sapiens, only an astonishingly short time ago, perhaps 150,000 years, which is nothing really compared to most other species that are around.
		And actually that's all sort of byproducts of the kind of research I've been doing as well on mitochondria and on microbes and you can track back through time to show that everyone on the planet is actually very closely related.
		And getting back to a question of hybrid vigour, if you like, because everyone is really so very genetically similar, you won't see any great improvements by any mixing of people who have lived in completely different parts of the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So we're so basically similar that you're not going to get hybrid vigor, is what you're saying.
		That's right.
		Very interesting.
		All right, listen, this is a talk show, and we like to take calls.
		So I'm going to take a few, and let's see how we do.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Professor Seitz.
		Hi.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Hi, there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time caller line, you're on the air, now or never.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
		I almost hung up on you, dear.
		You're slow on the draw there.
		You're on the air.
unidentified		Amazon from San Antonio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Men win the war on women every few minutes with well-documented rapes, beatings, and murders.
		For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.
		Since women can't even get help with housework, the equal reaction is on a small scale.
		Female might in mitochondria.
		Men blaming women for own karmic boomerang is a typical Jung and male pattern of projecting the shadow self, cause all their wars.
		Men who take all the power, profit, and pleasure from themselves just can't figure out why the third world in women, terrified continuously by violence and poverty, might reflect it back in desperate suicide terrorism.
		Also, male homosexuality to women is just another warfront affront.
		The only men who dress well and do their own laundry and have charm and wit, these men are the answer to what do women want.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you one of Professor Sykes' students?
unidentified		No, I nearly finished.
		But gay men withhold romance, which is women's obsession and orgasm, for other men.
		And straight men satisfy their desires with prostitution, computer porn, phone sex, and strippers.
		In this man's world, women's only other employment opportunities are as nurses and maids.
		Is it any wonder that Mother Nature, as a conscious gay force, perhaps has an alternative evolution beyond male labs and E.T. Yes.
		So the irresponsible drugs and bad diet and everything are part of the degeneration of the genes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, while you're ahead.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		That wasn't a question, but I really think that was great.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		These are the kinds of things that happen when you open the phone line, Professor.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		It is.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		I must say that it doesn't sound like that lady will miss men too much in the future.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I got that sense.
		I definitely got that sense.
		And I guess, in a way, what she just said sort of underlines everything you've been saying, doesn't it?
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm sure she'll enjoy reading Adam's Curse.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard line, you're on the air with Professor Sykes.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, hello.
unidentified		Hey, it's very much a privilege, and that young lady was right on target.
		I hate to say it.
		And this month, I'm a tourist.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you're a sympathizer, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're a sympathizer, aren't you?
unidentified		I'm a sympathizer with her.
		But my question is, the value of man and woman with stem cell research and cloning, they could eliminate us both very easily.
		And how much spiritual and well, but wait a minute.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Stop right there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First of all, I think that the professor destroyed your cloning thought.
unidentified		Okay.
		Well, okay, yes.
		But anyway, the thing with the men in power and whatnot that can do what they want to with women, that pretty much is gone.
		That's out the window.
		Women have the power now to control a lot of things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Professor, now he makes a very good point.
		If you look at the social, the way we are presently socially constructed in the United States, there certainly has been a sea change, hasn't there?
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Yes, there has.
		But it certainly hasn't occurred all over the world.
		In many other countries, women are just as badly treated as they ever were.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		So, yes, you're absolutely right.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		There's huge changes taking place now in America and in European countries.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and where where freedom rings these changes are occurring.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		They are, that's right.
		And they're all to the good as far as I can see.
		But what can I say?
		I mean it won't arrest the decline of the Y chromosome, but let's hope it arrests the other effects of Adam's curse that we've been talking about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, Professor, I'm really curious.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When you had the news release that flashed around the world about all of this those months ago, what kind of reaction was that?
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, I have all sorts of reactions really, but I mean, one, I've been accused quite often of sort of being a traitor to the male sex, if you like, to my own gender.
		And on that, actually, I think it would have been hard to write this book if I'd been a woman, actually, because I would have been then accused of having my own agenda.
		Actually, so there were some quite vicious letters and emails that I was somehow letting men down, as it were.
		I don't really see it like that at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course not.
		But they were.
		You said the word vicious.
		Yes.
		Yes.
		People don't understand how very difficult it is to be a messenger and how perilous.
		It's truly perilous to be a messenger, particularly with this kind of news.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, in a way, they didn't amount to anything, I'm glad to say, but in a way, they kind of proved the point, really, didn't they?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, you accepted most of those emails as evidence.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		And then they were equally balanced, or balanced far more by people who...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It was only a very summary, really.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		So they were balanced by many messages which, well, not exactly looking forward, well, not looking forward to the end of men.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, let's put it right out there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How many sounded like that young lady?
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Well, not very many, actually, because what was interesting was that when I've asked, you know, I've asked people and I've had responses to, well, even though a lot of women say, well, men are utterly useless and all the rest of it, we've heard that incantation for many, many years now.
		But actually, women have said, oh no, I mean, a world without men would be utterly awful.
		So not like that lady from San Antonio, is it?
		So I think in a sense, of course, when it actually happened, of course, men would be completely forgotten.
		I mean, like the dodo or something like that, it never would have been known.
		But certainly a world without men would be extremely difficult and different and would be more boring, I guess.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, maybe so, but I'll tell you, that lady could have been their leader.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Yes, she could.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		I hope she enjoys reading Adam's Curse because she'll find a lot of things, even more ammunition for her poetry and prose.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right.
		If she wants Adam's Curse, where would she go?
		I mean, would it probably be Amazon.com?
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		You can get it from Amazon.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		But I say, it was published last Monday, so in the United States, so it's in Barnes and Noble and all good bookshops, as they say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Excellent.
		I'm sure many will be on their way.
		East of the Rockies, you're on there with Professor Sykes.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi.
		I was wondering about pollution, especially those that mimic estrogen called estrogenic compounds.
		I was listening to a terribly disturbing study by Dr. Steve Nugent, who was at one time the president of the American Naturopaths.
		And he was saying that not only is male sterility on the rise of all species all over the world, but also some intersex births or hermaphrodites, which is what the greys are supposed to be, not female, but hermaphrodites.
		So my question is, are you aware of any of this affecting maleness?
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		In fact, in Adam's curse, I've got a chapter on this.
		And it certainly seems to be true that male infertility, and particularly as judged by sperm cancer, example, has been going down quite rapidly in the last 50 years all over the world.
		And although it's not absolutely certain what the cause for this is, certainly the finger has been pointed at pollutants, as you say, that mimic estrogens and things in our diet and in the environment that were not there before.
		And some even quite healthy sounding things actually do mimic estrogens, like soya beans, for example.
		There's an estrogen-like compound in soya beans.
		Also, some plasticizers have an estrogen-like activity.
		And that's, again, not entirely proven, but it is thought to be at least one of the major reasons why the sperm count in men is going down.
		Now in Adam's Curse I kind of treat that as another irony in the sense that the lady from San Antonio drew a parallel between the feminine and Gaia, the goddess of the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh she did.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		She did.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		And so getting back to another argument, trying to get all these arguments together.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Professor, do get them together.
		I will after the break.
		There you go.
		Boy, he's getting good.
		See, you're on radio for a little while.
		You learn about these breaks very quickly.
		The lady from San Antonio.
		She said it all, huh?
unidentified		I've had nothing but bad luck since the day I saw the cat at my door.
		So I came and to you, sweet lady.
		Handsome in your mystical call.
		Crystal ball on the table.
		Showing up you to the past.
		Sing cat within me holes.
		I knew it was a spell she cast She's
		I knew it was a spell she cast
		She's I knew it was a spell she cast She's I knew it was a spell she cast She's I knew it was a spell she cast She's I knew it was a spell she cast She's I knew it was a spell she cast She's I knew it was a spell she cast
		She's I knew it was a spell she cast She's I knew it was a spell she cast She's I knew it was a spell she cast She's I knew it was a spell she cast She's I knew it was a spell she cast She's I knew it was a spell she cast She's I knew it was a spell she cast She's I wonder if Juliet would rest as easily.
		To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
		From west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach ART by calling your in-country sprint access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what a program this has been.
		Professor Brian Sykes is my guest, and yes, he's a professor and very professor-like, but if you've been listening very carefully this morning, I hope you have because there have been some truly amazing, controversial revelations laid out across this program this morning.
		I'm Art Bell and we'll be right back.
unidentified		Dramatic Music
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Adam's Curse is the name of the book.
		It's a book you're really going to want.
		It's just out by Brian Sykes, author of the best-selling The Seven Daughters of Eve.
		Once again, Adam's Curse is the name of the book, and you absolutely are going to want to grab this as quickly as you can.
		I can tell you I'm going to be reading it quite quickly.
		Professor, you have, I just noticed, you have an entire chapter called Gaia's Revenge.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		That's right, yes.
		And getting back to what we were talking about before the break, putting a lot of arguments together and the way in which sexual selection has led to the accumulation of wealth and how that has shaped the modern world,
		really, while at the same time in its battle against the feminine, has polluted the modern world.
		And Gaia's revenge is all about how the feminine, in two respects, first of all, well, let's talk about the pollution, but isn't it ironic that the world seen as a feminine entity, as Gaia, the earth goddess, is hitting back at males in just the place it's hurt, that's to say, by the pollutants dropping the sperm count.
		Now, just when I say that, just in the question of a couple of sentences, I sound like completely bananas, but in fact, I do develop that theme a little more carefully in that chapter, Ghana's Revenge.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, may I have a lot of comment with bananas?
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Professor Sykes.
		Hello.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Art?
		Yes.
		Okay.
		Well, I'd like to ask your guest, since he's already cited male homosexuality as a possible means by which the mitochondrion strikes back at the Y chromosome, whether any studies have ever been done about female autism.
		How many uncles do autists who are female have versus aunts?
		Because I was wondering if this could not be yet another kink in this war, whether this could be the Y chromosome striking back again at the mitochondria and saying, well, okay, I'll see that women are born, but that when they're born, they aren't going to really, A, want to reproduce all that much, be able to take care of their kids, be able to act in the ways that, well, never mind detracting men, we'll be able to keep them around.
		We'll be able to keep a husband and father around.
		I ask this because I have it.
		And I am related to a woman who is absolutely crippled with the same condition.
		I have many more uncles, many more male relatives on my father's side than female, and I have somewhat more relatives on my mother's side than female.
		My mother's half-brother who is afraid of the money.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You don't have to go on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By extension, it's a wonderful question.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		It is a wonderful question, isn't it?
		The only thing is I don't have a wonderful answer, I'm afraid.
		It's an absolutely brilliant question, and I'm ashamed to say I've never considered it.
		I know that there is a genetic input to autism, and certain genes have been implicated in it, but I've never considered it as the opposite way around, that if you like, the Y chromosome battling against the mitochondrion.
		But since that is such a deeply embedded war, it's certainly something as soon as I get back to Oxford, I will have a look at.
		So thank you very much.
		I'm really sorry that I haven't got an answer to the question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's quite all right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time caller line, you're on the air with Professor Tykes.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, is that me?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's you.
unidentified		Oh, good.
		Okay, I guess this relates a little bit to the former caller, but I remember when I was in university and we studied double Y individuals, and these are men with the X Y Y with a double Y gene.
		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And they were very aggressive, and there were studies done that showed that many prisoners had this double Y. I actually think that it has been proffered as a defense, a legal defense.
unidentified		So I was wondering if it's still happening or how it happens, if it's part of the protection.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Professor?
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Can I answer that question?
		Yes.
		Well, it's certainly true that amongst inmates of imprisons, that there's a higher proportion of men with 2Y chromosomes than among the normal population.
		But there's plenty of men in the normal population with 2Y chromosomes who are not in the least bit criminally inclined.
		And when those results are first produced probably 20 years ago now, then clearly the explanation that they've got double dose of this dangerous chromosome was accepted and it all seemed to fit in very well.
		What's since happened is that there's now that it's probably not as stark as we thought.
		It's just the fact that they've got three chromosomes when they should have two.
		And there are other types of diseases where you have too many chromosomes that are also found at higher frequencies in prisons and amongst offenders.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But if you look at very well-to-do, famous, or powerful men, Professor, do you think that you might see a higher percentage of double Ys?
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Possible, but that's not been done as far as I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Maybe we should start.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe we should.
		Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Professor Sykes.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Yeah, hello.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Professor, you're very interesting.
		Earlier, and of course just now, you mentioned that the mitochondria attacks the Y chromosomes.
		I'm assuming then, and I want to make sure if you do or not, that you accept that fertilization and mitosis is based on the theory of epigenesis?
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Cereals.
unidentified		Is that correct?
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry.
unidentified		Do you accept then epigenesis?
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Oh, epigenesis.
		Yeah.
		Epigenesis.
unidentified		It's the basis for mitosis and fertilization.
unidentified		Because I have another question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right, right away.
		Hold on, hold on.
		I don't even understand.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Well, epigenesis is the term that means the genetic impact and influence of things that lie outside the chromosomes.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold on, Color.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Collar?
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Mitochondria and what we've been talking about with mitochondria is strictly speaking epigenesis.
unidentified		Okay, now if that is the case, have you heard or do you believe in the possibility of the theory of parthenogenesis, that there are two vestigial glands, the parufa room and the upufarune, that a female has in the mestosuffinx that is now somewhat dormant, and that this also might be the cause for dermoid cyst for virgin birth in the cell?
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		So parthenogenesis is where some animals actually, and it's been thought that occasionally women will produce children without men, without having the odds fertilized at all.
		And it's never been proven in the case of any humans, but certainly that's the way that many animals reproduce, but of course they produce clones in that way.
		So strictly speaking, it's very unlikely to happen in humans, but it's not entirely ruled out.
		But if there were any examples of it, then the offspring would be an identical clone to the mother.
		And genetic deaths nowadays would prove that very easily.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So genetically, we'd be right back to the banana problem, wouldn't we?
		Yeah, we would.
		It would be hopeless.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Professor Sykes.
		Hello.
unidentified		Good morning, gentlemen.
		Thank you for a very exciting and enlightening program.
		My name is Paula.
		I'm calling from Canton, Ohio, listening to you out of Akron over 6.40 a.m., WHLO.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And I had two questions for Dr. Sykes.
		It is Sykes, right?
		S-I-K-E-S?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, S-Y-K-E-S.
unidentified		S-Y, thank you.
		I wanted to know, first off, in the Orient, when female babies were born, they were killed upon birth and so that they wanted to get rid of the females.
		Okay, did that have any impact on the male babies?
		Did they finally produce more male babies there then?
		And question number two, I will preface this, Art, with you having had so many guests on your program, between you and George, over the years, about ETs Or maybe us from the future coming back and doing medical,
		I don't know, genetic manipulation maybe, or experiments, taking eggs and sperm from males and females because the thought was their race was dying out.
		So does Dr. Sykes think, or is he, with him being a geneticist and a scientist, is his research into this Y chromosome thing, does that have any bearing on the EPs or maybe in the US?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That one's over the top for current discussions.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Well, actually, can I answer both those questions?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you sure can.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Okay, the first one was about male babies, sorry, female babies being killed in China and in India.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, indeed.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		And also abortions done selectively to destroy female children.
unidentified		Yes.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		That, Adam's curse, interesting how many scenes from your listeners have actually reproduced now and of course I do talk about that.
		I feel that is another way, a conscious way in which the Y chromosome is being propagated by the purposeful and deliberate murder of young girls.
		So that's one thing.
		As to aliens coming in from the future or getting into the gene pool, as it were, in all the work I and others have done to reconstruct human evolution, we've never seen any DNA from anything that was completely non-human.
		So it's not exactly a complete answer, but we haven't seen any DNA from anything that doesn't fit quite well with what we know to be human DNA.
		So although I know that wasn't a question, if there'd been any massive interbreeding with aliens, we would have seen it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Perhaps no.
		But there is a lot of discussion about a race of aliens that might have failing DNA.
		And interestingly enough, what you have told us tonight really is that.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		It could be us, then, couldn't it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it could be us, yes, couldn't it?
unidentified		Exactly.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		And aren't we planning to go to Mars?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That we have failing DNA.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Yes, well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's incredible.
		International Line, you're on the air with Professor Sykes.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Oh, good morning.
		Hi.
		I thought it was funny what you said earlier, Art, about that ETs or aliens are all depicted as females.
		I totally forgot about that, but I was thinking, how do you know they're females and not some other females?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, it just hit me like a brick.
		I mean, we're talking about greys, and we're intermarrying like crazy, and we're eventually all going to be certain greys or similar in some way many hundreds of generations down the line if we last that long.
		And yeah, when you see greys on TV or whatever, they're always female.
unidentified		That's how I think about it.
		Maybe it's another sex altogether, as in parthenogenesis or completely androgynous.
		But I had two questions, one about chromosomes and embryos, and the other one about Darwinian theory.
		So I just wanted to ask your guest, Brian, I wanted to get some clarification on this.
		If the female chromosome is XX and the male chromosome is XY, wouldn't, in your opinion, make X the standard chromosome and Y the different or the deviant one?
		Yep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It does.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That was a yes.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that was definitely a yes.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		The Y is a decayed X, no doubt about that.
unidentified		Also, the male embryo, you were saying, originates as female and then turns into male somewhere down the line.
unidentified		And I guess wouldn't proof of that be in why males have nipples?
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's sort of a vestigial characteristic.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Interestingly, some males can produce milk through their nipples.
unidentified		Oh, yeah?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'd have heard that too.
unidentified		And Darwin was known for his theory on survival of the fittest, or survival of the most adaptable, as it were.
		So if his theory is true, well, wouldn't the longevity of the human male species rely on becoming or becoming more adaptable to the world or environment around him?
		And what's your opinion on that?
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's right.
		I mean, well, not all species manage to adapt, though, so that's the problem, that when the environment changes, some species, and we've seen extinctions, most species become extinct, of course, that it's not necessary that we or any other species will be able to adapt to changes, and the faster they happen, the less likely we are to adapt.
		Actually, interestingly, the average life expectancy of a species when it starts, when it becomes extinct, is only 100,000 years.
		So extinctions are happening all the time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		With some rare exceptions, there are some animals that have been around very long.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Oh, of course, yes, but that's the average length of a species.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's not very long at all.
		Professor, as a geneticist, how do you feel about how close we're beginning to get to the ability to manipulate our own genetic makeup, to be our own creators, to be our own God?
		It almost amounts to that.
		How does people think of God?
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Well, actually, even though I am a geneticist, I'm not in favour of the wholesale interference with our genetic makeup.
		For example, even though I personally wouldn't have much objection to a child born, say, from two mothers, say, a lesbian couple, and sort of sticking my neck out, I think that will happen in my own lifetime.
		I'm not in favour of wholesale genetic manipulation to try and improve individuals' offspring.
		I'm certainly not in favour of cloning.
		I think there's mystery, there's wonder in our genetic variability and our genetic heritage that we've got from our ancestors, and I think it should be, except in the case of very severe diseases, left to its own devices.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But necessarily, as the science for the diseases progresses, the ability to do other things comes with it, doesn't it?
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		It does.
		And I think there will be, and we have to be very careful about this, there will be the inclination to try and design your own offspring as being the perfect child, as it were.
		Great dangers in that, not only from an ethical point of view, which I think are overwhelmingly argued against it, also great dangers because it's very clear that genes do many things.
		So you might want to alter a gene, for example, to produce a trait which you find attractive in a child and find that actually it interferes with another gene or another pathway somewhere and gives that child a severe disadvantage.
		So it's too complicated, it's unethical, and I certainly won't look forward to that day.
unidentified		The law of unintended consequences.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It has been said, you know, our time is gone.
		I mean, that's it.
		Poof.
		You were worried about staying awake.
		Here you are.
		We're done.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		We are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we're done.
		We're done.
		we're out of time at your book did you write this so the average person It's not for scientists.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		It's for everybody.
		It's written.
		You don't have to know any science to read it, really.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's wonderful.
		And I think a lot of people are going to chase after it.
		It's called Adam's Curse.
		The author, my guest, Brian Sykes, that's S-Y-K-E-S.
		Get to your bookstore, get to Amazon, get to wherever you can get and grab it up.
		Professor, it has been an honor.
		Truly, truly an honor to have you on.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's very kind of you to say so, and it's been a great honor and a pleasure for me to be part of it.
bryan sykes ▲ ● ▼		And as you say, the three hours has gone past in a flash.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good night, Professor.
		Good night.
		Well, wasn't that something?
		Professor Brian Sykes, and once again, Adam's Curse is his book.
		I think you're going to enjoy it.
		It was written just for you.
		But for me, that's it for the weekend.
		Your regularly scheduled programming resumes tomorrow evening.
		From the High Desert, I'm Art Bell.
		Good night.
unidentified		Good night in the desert, shooting stars across the sky.
unidentified		This magical journey will take us on a ride filled with belonging, searching for the truth.

▲