Art Bell

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May 1, 2004 - Art Bell

02:51:43

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Joe Meyer - Economic Armageddon

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01:17:37

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Speaker	Time	Text
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be in the wide world of time zones, all of which are covered by this program, Coast Coast AM, Weekend Version.
		I'm Mark Bell, and it is my honor to be here with you.
		Indeed, my honor.
		It's great to be here.
		Now, I guess I ought to start out by saying...
unidentified		So, take that, whoever you are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Number one.
		Right up through 12 Plus.
		Excellent.
		Alright.
		World News.
		And then, oh, we will do open lines this hour.
		Next hour, we're going to look at the economy.
		Nothing, in the end, except perhaps the subject of my book, Woodley's Broken Mind, will affect you more than our economy.
		And so next hour, we'll talk to a real expert in our economy, and he basically thinks we're flying on air.
		You know, kind of like a cartoon character suspended in midair, just realizing that he's lost all forward momentum and is about to go...
unidentified		Chukum.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Suspected militants sprayed gunfire inside an oil contractor's Saudi office Saturday, killing at least five Westerners, including two Americans, wounding 25 others.
		Police killed four gunmen in a shootout after a car chase in which the attackers reportedly dragged the naked body of one of the victims behind their getaway car.
		One of the attackers killed was reported to be on the Saudi Kingdom's list of most wanted terrorists, many of them suspects in last year's suicide attacks on foreign housing compounds in the capital, Riyadh.
		The two attacks were blamed on al-Qaeda, Osama bin Laden's terror network.
		The chief of the U.S. Army Reserve, I'm sure you've been hearing about this, condemned the abusive treatment of Iraqi war prisoners Saturday, said he's ordered a study of whether reservists are, in fact, sufficiently trained in ethical conduct and how to treat prisoners.
		Now, earlier in the week, Rush, working for the very same company that I do, Rush, who's a really good guy, did take off on our movie.
		For those that you don't know, The Coming Global Superstorm by myself and Whitley Streeber has been turned into a movie, or the movie says it is based in part on our book, however you want to look at it.
		It's called The Day After Tomorrow, and Rush took the opportunity to go sailing against it, saying, this is hilarious.
		Fox has a fictional global warming movie, The Day After Tomorrow, and it's turning into a political lightning rod.
		Well, he's right about that.
		Fringe environmentalist wackos, sponsored by moveon.org, are going to hold a rally just a few blocks away from the movie's New York City premiere.
		Yeah, that's where it'll be, New York City.
		I'm trying to figure out if I'm going to go.
		Featuring none other than Al Gore, the movie's laughable premise, the onset of a new ice age just three days after the polar ice caps melt.
		First it was Clark and Woodward books, then the 9-11 Commission.
		Now a major political party is forced to run on a joke movie.
		A joke movie, he said, followed by the Clinton book.
		They're going to send out Al Gore, the one guy who does more damage to them than anyone else, although Carrie's getting close.
		Director Roland Emmerich, engaging in his reported enthusiasm for on-screen Gore shows tornadoes in L.A., giant hail in Tokyo, and the flooding and freezing of New York, and Al Gore blames it all on George Bush's environmental policies.
unidentified		This is just too rich, said Brush.
unidentified		Fox spokes babe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Spokesbabe.
		Florence Grace said, the movie is meant to entertain audiences with a mix of spectacle and emotion.
		Should it increase awareness and inspire audiences to take an interest in some of the issues raised in the film, well, all the better.
		Yip, yip, yip, yip, yahoo!
		We just learned from a poll that the environment is an issue, said Rush, that matters to less than one-third of the country.
		And he was laughing along and said, a fictional movie about an issue that nobody cares about.
unidentified		Nobody cares about the environment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can you imagine that?
		Nobody cares about the environment.
		Is that really true?
		All of you out there listening, is it true?
unidentified		Does nobody, nobody care about the environment?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I find that hard to believe.
		Speaking of the environment, you might want to go up to the website right now.
		The website, I refer to coasttocoastam.com.
		That's coasttocoastam.com.
		I found a remarkable photograph.
		I'll tell you about it in a second.
		NASA scientists are now saying that cirrus clouds, this is going to kill you, because they've always said contrails could not possibly affect the weather.
		Listen to this.
		NASA scientists say that cirrus clouds formed by contrails increased surface temperatures enough to account for all the warming that took place in the United States between 1975 and 1994.
		This totally ignores major global warming causes like changes in ocean currents, which have been observed by NASA's own satellites.
		The statement may be a result of government pressure on NASA to discredit the upcoming film the day after tomorrow.
		I'm telling you, folks, this is becoming a real hot, hot, hot political potato.
		So NASA is actually saying that all of the global warming that has occurred between 75 and 94 is due to contrails.
		Now, let's see, NASA's Patrick Minnesot says, quote, this result shows the increased cirrus coverage attributable to air traffic could account for nearly all of the global warming observed over the United States for nearly 20 years starting in 1975.
		But it is important to acknowledge contrails would add to and not replace any greenhouse gas effect.
		During the same period, warming occurred in many other places where cirrus coverage decreased or remained steady.
		Now, I have sent you to the website so that indeed you might see a photograph, obviously a satellite photograph, which is nothing short of remarkable.
		Contrails, chemtrails, whatever they are, they are nothing short of remarkable.
		Now, this is a photograph, and I recommend you click on it and get the larger version.
		And what you're going to see here is a, oh, I don't know, about the southern fourth of the United States, southeast part of the U.S., centered on Georgia and out into the Atlantic Ocean, about two-thirds of Florida.
		And it's incredible.
		I mean, this is an incredible photograph.
		And it shows you, let's play it safe here for a second, contrails crossing in every direction.
		And I rather suspect turning into these high Cirrus clouds.
		There's no question about it.
		I mean, look at the number of contrails here.
		My God, the entire southeast is crisscrossed with contrails that apparently have lingered long enough.
		I mean, the old story is that contrails, you know, they're wispy and they form as the jet passes and then they go away.
		Well, take a look at this photograph.
		These didn't go away.
		And judging from the number of contrails seen on this photograph, well, gee, you'd have to say, hmm, these contrails, well, gee, they must have formed over hours and hours and hours, if not an entire day, because surely that many aircraft could not be in the sky anywhere near us simultaneously.
		Right?
		They say a picture is better than a thousand words.
		It really is.
		So cruise on up to the website and take a look.
		Coasttocoastam.com.
		It'll be right there.
		Hit you right between the eyes and click on it and get the larger version.
		And just sit back for a moment and contemplate what you're seeing.
		Music All right, this story broke just before I came on the air.
		And it's not the only thing that appears to be broke.
		I'm not supposed to have thunder in there.
		Let's try this one more time.
		That's better.
		Okay.
		Just before I came on the air, this broke from the Independent in Great Britain.
		And I was having a pretty unique conversation with Whitley Strieber because of all these climate stories coming out prior to coming on the air tonight.
		And Witt believes that our own CIA, our own CIA, actually uses some British publications to leak stories that otherwise might not get into the American media at all.
		Could that really happen?
		Well, yes, perhaps.
		Maybe this would be one of those.
		I'm not saying it is.
		I'm just saying that Witt was of that opinion, and I've never really thought about it, but I suppose that would be.
		Certainly, there seem to be an awful lot of things that might not be politically popular in this country that appear in the British press either first or only.
		Maybe this is one of those, but here it is from the Independent in Great Britain.
		Antarctica is likely to be the world's only habitable continent by the end of this century if global warming remains unchecked.
		This from the government's chief scientist, Professor Sir David King.
		He said that Earth was entering the, quote, first hot period, end quote, for 60 million years when there was no ice on the planet and the rest of the globe could not sustain human life.
		The warning, one of the starkest yet delivered by a top scientist, comes as ministers decide next week whether to weaken measures to cut the pollution that causes climate change, even though Tony Blair last week described the situation, this is Tony Blair, as very, very critical indeed.
		The Prime Minister, who was launching a new alliance of governments, businesses, and pressure groups to tackle global warming, added that he could not think of any bigger long-term question facing the world community.
		Yet, the government is considering relaxing limits on emissions by industry under an EU scheme.
		On Tuesday, Sir David said that the levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, the main greenhouse gas causing climate change, were already 50% higher than at any time in the last 420,000 years.
		The last time they were at this level, minus 379 parts per million was 60 million years ago.
		That would be positive, actually, I guess, 379 parts per million.
	They've got a little dash there.
	That would have been 60 million years ago during a rapid period of global warming, said he.
	Levels soared to 1,000 parts per million, causing a massive reduction of life.
	Quote, no ice was left on Earth.
	Antarctica was the best place for mammals to live, and the rest of the world would simply not sustain human life, he said.
	Sir David warned that if the world did not curb its burning of fossil fuels, quote, we will reach that level by 2100, end quote.
	But since we're already in the 2000s and that process appears to be well underway, the effects of that may well be felt now.
	I don't know how many of you monitor what's going on with the weather, but there has been a relentless, dangerous pounding of the central part of America and certainly Texas, Oklahoma, and then it moved on through Louisiana and elsewhere with supercells popping up all over the place.
	It has been relentless in the amount of static it causes on the radio.
	So I've been monitoring that very closely.
	And I'm telling you right now, those people are getting battered.
	At any rate, whatever it is, I don't think this issue is something that people don't care about.
	All due respect to Rush, I just don't think it's something people don't care about.
	And I think that the reason that this motion picture is now such a political hot potato is because people do care about it.
	They understand that this is the world they live in.
	They understand this is the air they breathe.
	This is the weather they put up with.
	This is where we live.
	This is our nest.
	And I think people do care about their nest.
	Don't you?
	This also from Whitley Striber's Unknown Country.
	Time travel may be real, it says.
	If we can speed up time, we may be able to travel in it.
	Now, scientists say they're learning how to do it.
	If you find it confusing, you're not alone.
	But a physicist by the name of Carlos Dahles says, quote, a big problem for science is common sense.
	It works for most everything in people's lives, but not physics.
	Raphael, I can't pronounce his last name.
	It's an Italian name, writes in the Miami Herald that the physicist Dolls has managed to speed up time.
	In the past, atomic clocks on airplanes flying very quickly would have been compared with the same kind of clocks on the ground to show the clocks on the planes moved forward slightly more quickly.
	In fact, in his experiment, he puts a digital clock under immense force by spinning it on a centrifuge in order to speed up the frequency of the pulses produced by the clock and therefore push it ahead.
	It takes about six hours, but in that six hours, they can move that clock ahead four seconds.
	Sometimes time just seems to go faster.
	Scientists have a theory about why time flies when you're having fun.
	It does, right?
	And drags when you're bored to death.
	Brain scans show that patterns of activity in the brain change depending on how we focus on a particular task.
	If we're concentrating on the time instead of the job itself, this triggers brain activity, which makes time seem to go more slowly.
	Remember school?
	I have a clock above me, an atomic clock, because we have to keep very careful time naturally for a network.
	And if you just, it's very memorable of my school clock.
	You remember them, right?
unidentified		Tick, tick, tick, tick.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sitting at your desk.
		I don't know.
		You may not all have...
		I would not fit into that category.
unidentified		I would watch the clock tick, tick, tick.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And, of course, it goes very slowly, right?
		If your brain, on the other hand, is busy and focusing on a task, perhaps something you love, then it just doesn't have enough time.
		It doesn't have enough resources.
		Your brain does not have the resources necessary to pay attention to the time that task is taking.
		And therefore, the time seems to pass more quickly.
		Neuroscientist Tomoy Shimara says this is because, quote, the same parts of the brain that are involved in motor function are also involved in time perception.
		Now, there's been a big story, and I've just been pummeled with a lot of you who have sent it to me because there have been all kinds of sightings over the nation of Iran.
		In Iran, well, they're almost thinking there right now they're about to be invaded by Little Green Man, or perhaps the Americans racing through the night in spaceships spying on the Islamic Republic.
		Flying saucer fever, it is a fever, has gripped Iran after dozens of sightings in the last few days.
		Fanciful cartoons of alien spacecraft have adorned the front pages.
		State TV there on Wednesday showed, in fact, a sparkling white disc that it says was filmed right over Tehran on Tuesday night.
		And they're seeing them all over Iran.
		Oh, you have to wonder.
		This is kind of interesting.
		The head of the Astronomical Society there in Iran told Reuters why these stories are unfounded because you know what?
		We'd have seen these flying saucers in our telescopes.
		I don't believe in that kind of thing.
		And he says, those people, the eyewitnesses, and there have been many of them now in Iran, he said of the eyewitnesses, they're not experts.
		Farmers, villagers, pilots, they're not experts.
		What do they know?
		He said, people, what people reported was consistent with the planet Venus.
		It was changing colors, and that's what they've seen.
		So they're inundated in Iran with flying things.
		All right, let's go to the phone, see what's up with all of you out there.
		Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
		You should be on the air.
		There you are.
unidentified		Hello.
		I was calling about the chemtrail situation because as soon as you said the word chemtrail and global warming, I immediately realized chemtrail.
		Because when the chemtrails play first broke, and I haven't really heard too many updates in the past few years, but everybody was talking about chemtrails back in 2001 or so, people were saying that one of the purposes for that program is probably weather modification.
		And some people have been thinking maybe they're trying to mediate global warming.
		Whereas other people who are more conservative in mind, such as myself, were thinking what if perhaps they're doing it to accelerate global warming.
		You know, if, for example, you take the theory of somebody like, say, David Icke, who has been on cost, I believe, who believed that the reptiles want to take over.
		Well, you know, the reptiles would probably want a warmer climate, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I suppose.
		I don't know.
		Listen, I've never been a big probable answer to a puzzling question.
		I'm not saying they don't exist, and I'm sure they do.
		People conspire to do things all the time, but I tend not to jump to it as the first probable answer.
		The most likely one is what I jump on.
		This picture I've got up here, I really would urge you to go check it out.
		This is just a typical day.
		Maybe a busy day.
		I don't know.
		Centered on Atlanta.
		And yeah, there's a lot of air traffic, of course, in Atlanta.
		But my God, take a look at the contrails across the southeastern U.S. sky.
		It's absolutely nothing short of incredible.
		I'm R. Bell.
unidentified		This is Coast to Coast AM.
		You get a shiver in the dark.
		It's raining in the park.
		Meantime.
		Sign up for Streamlink at www.coastocoastam.com.
		And you can hear tonight's show over and over and over.
		A band is blowing mixing, double fall time.
		I feel alright when you hear the music ring.
		I feel alright when you hear the music ring.
		Now you step inside, but you don't see too many faces.
		Coming in out of the rain to hear the jazz go down.
		This is the world of government.
		Let's go realize how you turn.
		Let's turn it back on here.
		It's 2am, here it's gone It's 2am, it's still warm It's time to take a chance Yeah, the storm moves Sirens in my head Rise up All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, now I want you all to listen very carefully because the telephone numbers to get in contact with us vary a little from those given out during the week.
		We have slightly different numbers, a slightly different conduit.
		And if you'll listen very closely, you'll get the one that applies to you.
unidentified		Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Art Bell from East of the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
		From West of the Rockies, call Art at 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach Art Bell by calling your in-country sprint access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Certainly is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We're going to be roaring through the night with whatever is on your mind coming right up.
unidentified		We're going to be roaring through the night with whatever is on your mind coming right up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By the way, tomorrow night, When I will have the time in the first hour, I'm going to read at least part of an article that came out in Popular Mechanics entitled When UFOs Arrive.
		And it's a legit look at what actually would occur if we were contacted.
		If UFOs actually landed on Earth, there is a very specific protocol in place with regard to SETI, with regard to the hazmat people and everything that would happen to the occupants of a UFO.
		It's pretty wild stuff.
		And this is, it's not fantasy.
		It's what we have plans, how our plans unfold if they really get here.
		It's fascinating.
		I'll get to that in the first hour.
		In the meantime, we have open lines.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
		Hey, Art Bale.
		How's it going?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's going okay, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		Oh, I'm in Wilsonville, California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		And I'd just like to say you're the greatest talk show host that's ever come on the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know about that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I thank you anyway.
unidentified		Oh, I just, you know what's kind of interesting is you've got your coming global superstorm coming out in the end of the month, the movie?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And you know what's interesting?
unidentified		Here we are at the beginning of the month, and they've got a 10.5 disaster picture on NBC.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess is it a mini-series?
unidentified		Yes, a two-day mini-series.
unidentified		It comes on tomorrow night at 9 o'clock.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very important to note because I'm all set to tape it.
		It looked very interesting, and we'll put it on a hard drive, but I didn't know it was two parts, so you've helped me out.
		I might have missed the second part.
		Thank you.
unidentified		Yeah, it's going to be on the same time each night.
		Gotcha.
		That's what it's four hours.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		10.5.
unidentified		And it's kind of interesting because you know what they want to do?
unidentified		Did you see the trailer of any sort?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's all I've seen so far, yeah.
unidentified		Yeah, they want to use a nuclear bomb to steal up the fall.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		Yeah, they said, you know, Kim Delaney, she's been on different programs, and she's the expert on trying to stop the stop fault.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, maybe the show will somehow cause it to make sense.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But right now, if somebody were to ask me, hey, let's take a nuclear weapon and put it right there in the middle of the San Andreas Fault and see what happens.
unidentified		Yeah, really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Probably not the best of ideas.
unidentified		Oh, hey, another thing, Art.
		You know your old station you used to work at, Kdon?
		We don't have you on the air anymore.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's because we've moved over to 840.
unidentified		Oh, okay.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So if you want to hear us in Las Vegas, you have two choices, either 8.40 a.m. or KNYE's translator there, 100.1.
		You might try that also in the Las Vegas Valley.
		But yes, we're on 840.
unidentified		Okay, I'm getting you on a big mighty 640 KFI from Los Angeles.
unidentified		Yeah, you bet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Well, that thing covers the...
		You can hear it in Hawaii.
		You can hear it where I am here in Perrum, Nevada, like a local station.
		You can hear it, well, if you listen real hard, you can probably hear it from the East Coast.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hey, Art, good morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning.
unidentified		Yeah, I hope I'm as far away from the San Andreas Fault as possible when they start dropping nukes in there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wouldn't strike me as the...
		I suppose...
		I can't imagine the circumstance where I'd light one off in the fault.
unidentified		No, that sounds kind of risky to me, no doubt.
		This is John in Atlanta Art.
		You know, I know your views on global warming, whether it's caused by man or a cyclical.
		We need to warn you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, sir.
		Those are my views on climate change itself.
		I see the climate as changing, whether it's cyclical or man's hand or both.
		I don't care.
		The change is underway, and all I'm saying is we shouldn't have our heads, well, let's go with the polite way in the sand, you know, not in the sand.
unidentified		Yeah, you know, I hear you.
		In my opinion, it's just my opinion.
		I could be completely wrong.
		I think man's hand has little or nothing to do with the climate change or global warming.
		You know, I've heard guests on your show over the years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, but before you get too carried away with that, do you have a computer?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you able to get to the coast to coasta.com website?
unidentified		Not at the moment.
unidentified		I'm out working.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, okay.
		Listen, I will keep this photograph up there today and tomorrow.
		For you to think that man's hand is not involved after you see this photograph, it would be very difficult indeed.
		So get up there and take a look-see at it, all right?
unidentified		Okay, but you know, guests like Stan Deo and Robert W. Physics on your show is talking about how there's been a measurable increase in volcanic activity, earthquake activity, and even solar energy output over the last few decades has increased.
		Now, I heard a guest a few weeks on your show talk about the correlative factors between burning of fossil fuels and the increased carbon dioxide output.
		And you just read an article about a scientist saying a chief greenhouse gas is carbon dioxide, but it's not.
		The chief greenhouse gas is water vapor.
		Like 95% of greenhouse gas is water vapor.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But again, you see, you're putting us in a position where we're arguing the cause.
		And I would really rather not do that.
		I'm observing a change, a climate change.
unidentified		Well, that's why it's so political.
unidentified		I mean, if we realize that these other things that are obviously not caused by man are more of a correlative factor in climate change than, sir, remember the old line about fiddling while Rome burns?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, well, we should stop fiddling as in arguing about what's causing it and simply begin addressing the fact that it's happening, folks.
		The climate is undergoing a change and may in fact undergo a rapid change, and we should plan for it.
		That's all I'm saying, and I wish we would quit fiddling because that's what's stopping us from doing anything.
		We're paralyzed because we have to sit around arguing about what it is.
		I have no idea.
		Man's hand, not man's hand.
		Normal cyclical event, more solar output, whatever.
		It's underway, so let's stop fiddling and let's begin planning on how to survive it.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Tom, Lafayette, Indiana, WIBC.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I had a comment on why immortality is a bad thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Tom, how can you comment on that unless you've been there and done that?
		Or have you?
		Well, are you immortal?
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, okay.
unidentified		I'm one of the good guys.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, who's to say an immortal would be a bad guy?
unidentified		Everybody.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
unidentified		That's why all throughout mythology they're always catching the immortals and chopping their heads off.
		Anyway, nature of the universe is that things are born, they live for a time, and they die.
		People die, planets die, solar systems die, galaxies die.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Indeed.
unidentified		Anyway, immortality is a vampiric concept.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, not necessarily.
		I mean, that's one possible way that people look at immortality, but another would be genetic.
		What if they unravel the genetic reason that you and I grow old and stop it?
unidentified		Well, historically, it's always a vampiric concept in one way or another because it always involves one group living beyond its time by stealing time from another group by killing them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		You know, it's like for 144,000 Christians to become immortal, they have to have an apocalypse and kill 6 billion of us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
unidentified		And the vampires themselves, they have to suck your life's blood away.
unidentified		And then you have all these mythologies about how the black knights were always hunting down the immortals because they were bad people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why is this on your mind so, sir?
unidentified		I don't know.
		It's a coast, you know.
		Think outside the box.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's fine.
		I'm just wondering if there's something personal at the bottom of this.
		I mean, that you're in some way perhaps involved in something.
unidentified		No, I'm content to live my time and die.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No bloodlust that you can't account for.
unidentified		No.
		I'll leave that to the Christians, the Moslems, the Jews, and all those people that run around killing people for their beliefs.
		I'm just trying to introduce enough doubt.
		You know, it's like people who believe 100%, they fly airplanes into tall buildings.
		I'm just trying to introduce enough doubt that maybe they won't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, how would you feel, though, if they came up with a genetic fix for mortality and that you could take a shot, just go down and a little pinprick in your arm and something genetically changes in you and you stop growing older?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would you go for that?
unidentified		I don't know.
		I think I'd have to think about that because if you didn't modify our mindset, living forever would be really terrible.
		You know, because if I know I'm getting older, but I start looking at the kids and some of the stuff they're into and like your computers and stuff, and I just don't want to get into that stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Well, that's probably God's plan unfolding.
		In other words, I've had this old theory, sir, that by the time you get to be, you know, like 75, 85, 95, somewhere way up there, you just look around at the world and the state it's in and you say, God, take me?
unidentified		I'm ready.
		Out of here.
		Well, I don't want God to take me, though.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You don't?
unidentified		No, I just want to be a couple shovelfuls of Mother Earth, you know?
unidentified		The deep, dark sleep forever and all that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, doesn't it worry you a little bit saying things like that?
		I don't want God to take me?
		Now, see.
unidentified		Well, I'm not going to walk into the light.
unidentified		We discussed that a couple times ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you just want eternal nothingness.
unidentified		Yeah, because that's how the world works.
unidentified		I mean, if you look out in the galaxy, we watch stars die, we watch galaxies die, or whatever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but the death of a galaxy is part of the rebirth of something else.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a never-ending cycle.
unidentified		When I die, something else will be born.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There you are.
		That sounds like a couple of songs I remember.
		One that's Blood, Sweat, and Tears had a song about that, didn't they?
		When I Die.
		Another one was born.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		I'm sorry to interrupt a conversation you're having there.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Yeah, so you want eternal nothingness.
		That's beautiful.
		Mr. Bell.
		Yes.
		My name is Sergio.
		That's the name I'm just using.
		This is amazing.
		I went to the, excuse me.
		I'm a Cuban.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		I came here in 1960.
		Obviously, you know the Cuban story.
		I came here in 1960.
		I've been listening to Rush Limbaugh.
		I listened to you earlier when you first started your program.
		I went to Rush Limbaugh's website.
		He did not have any type of link like your website does as far as contact us, email us, or anything like that.
		Because let me tell you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, maybe you didn't look carefully enough.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know that there's some way to email Rush, of course.
unidentified		I really are pleased.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You just missed it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's got to be something there.
unidentified		I couldn't find it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What were you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's say if you'd found it, what were you going to say?
unidentified		No, I was going to...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		Well, first of all, I was going to tell him that the other changes that he talks about that are not happening, ha, ha, ha, and he makes, you know, fun of all this, just like you said, are totally wrong.
		Let me explain really quickly, because I don't want to take a lot of your time, obviously.
		But I'm a friend of yours since 1991 on K-Lock, okay?
		I'm right here in Las Vegas.
		I just moved back from Arizona.
		But it doesn't matter where I come from or where I'm.
		All I can tell you is That this gentleman, and I listen to him, why?
		Because I'm a Cuban.
		Obviously, this guy had a lot of good things to say all this time.
		Except one thing, Art.
		He didn't ever, he always put down the thing about the global warning, about everything else, that you and I, and I say I because for other reasons, but you and Whitley absolutely know that this is happening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We absolutely know it's happening, is right.
		And all I can say is that Rush represents a particular political point of view, some of which I agree with and some of which I disagree with.
		And all these years I have disagreed with Rush on this issue.
		All these years I have felt and feel now that there's nothing that bars me from being a generally conservative kind of guy.
		And I am fairly conservative politically.
		Although I'm very much an independent registered, as you know, if you don't, now you do.
		I'm a libertarian, technically, but I hold a lot of conservative viewpoints.
		That doesn't prevent me from thinking outside that particular box, and that is, you know, that conservatism and the right wing in America is a certain box, and I guess you've got to buy it all or buy none, according to some people.
		Well, I cherry-pick, and I think a lot of people do.
		In other words, I think our environment and our climate change and all of this is very important because it's where we live.
		And so I don't choose to lock, step, march along with the conservatives who say it's all a bunch of baloney.
		It's not a bunch of baloney.
		These changes measured by Woods Hole and other scientific, clearly prestigious scientific organizations, they're real.
		If you choose to ignore them, then you're ignoring science.
		At your own peril, I might add.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
unidentified		I'll be darned.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Ozone blocks heat.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I beg your pardon?
unidentified		Ozone blocks heat.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ozone blocks heat.
unidentified		Now, when the heat that would normally be trapped in the upper atmosphere by that ozone comes through to the lower atmosphere, the upper atmosphere is colder than it would normally be, and the lower atmosphere is warmer.
unidentified		Virgo wild weather.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I thought that ozone blocked ultraviolet.
unidentified		It also blocks heat.
		Ultraviolet is a form of energy.
		Now, listen, Art, the important thing that I have to say is that we can fix this.
		We know how to make ozone, and we know how to get it up there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, you're quite correct.
		There are a number of plans, none of which, of course, have been executed with our knowledge for replenishing ozone.
		I mean, high-flying aircraft, releasing, that kind of thing.
		There is a lot of talk about that.
		And, you know, sometimes when you look at pictures like the one that I've got up on the website right now, the Southeast U.S., just don't miss that.
		Be sure you see that because I want your comments on it.
		And when you see something like that, you realize that we are having an effect on the climate.
		That what you're seeing with your very own eyes, how could that not have an effect on the climate of that area?
		How could it not?
		When man is putting those sort of sustained clouds over a certain area, that's going to change the weather in some way or another, is it not?
		Just take a good look at the photograph.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello?
		Turn your radio off, please.
		That's number one.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very good.
		Where are you calling from?
		Calling from Midland, Texas, KCRS.
		Midland, Texas, where you've been getting a lot of thunderstorms, huh?
		Yeah, that's right.
		Quite a number.
		Anyway, what's up?
unidentified		I just want to tell Art how much I like this show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is it.
		You are talking to Art.
		See, I don't screen calls.
		You just go, boom, right on the air.
		So I'm Art.
unidentified		Oh, okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I had just something light.
unidentified		That's all I wanted to tell you.
unidentified		I enjoy it very much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You like the show?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
		Excellent.
		All right.
		Well, thank you.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
		That was easy.
		Welcome to the Rockies.
		You're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
		Turn your radio off, please.
		Excellent.
		And proceed.
unidentified		Well, good evening, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good evening.
unidentified		The first time I listened to you, do you remember when you were out crawling around underneath the trailer, the rat had chewed all the wires?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I remember.
unidentified		The first night I listened to you.
		Really?
		And before Y2K, you had all the time travelers call in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		Okay.
		One called in who said he was a student from the future, and he was back here on a history course.
		And you asked him, well, what about Y2K?
		And he said, Y2K, Y2K, I don't remember anything about that.
		And then you asked him about Clinton, and he said, oh, the only thing I can remember about Clinton is that he was the last elected president in the United States.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, people have been saying that about presidents ever since we've had them.
		This will be the last president.
		Usually it's the last president, and always this will be the final Pope.
		Right?
		People just say those things.
		But one of these days we'll do another time traveler line.
		After all, they really must be out there.
		They really must.
		If time travel is possible, and I am convinced one day it will be possible, then we are here to answer the question, where are the time travelers?
		Well, I can assure you, when we open the lines, they're on coast.
		From the high desert in the middle of the night, this is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		Coast to Coast AM.
		Coast to Coast AM.
		Coast to Coast AM.
		To talk with Art Bell.
		Call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
		From west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach ART by calling your in-country sprint access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You think ghosts are scary stuff, right?
		Maybe not.
		You think the climate's scary?
unidentified		It is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You think shadow people are scary things?
unidentified		Well, they probably are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But hardly any of it compares with the warning that I've got an issue for the program that we're about to do with Joseph Meyer.
		This is really scary stuff, folks.
		We're going to talk about our economy.
		It's really scary stuff.
		You know, the oil that keeps the engine running out there.
		Who's Joseph Meyer?
		Well, he's a professional.
		He's been that on Wall Street since 1972.
		Joseph Meyer has been an industry arbitrator and mediator with the NASD.
		He has appeared on national television as an advisor on shareholder rights with ABC News, Comcast Cable Network, and Time Warner Cable.
		Meyer's experience qualifies him as a seasoned pro in the field of investor rights and mediation.
		He also has a weekly radio program to spread what he considers to be vital information.
		And in a moment, you're going to hear one of the scarier programs, I suspect, than you've ever heard over here on this side of the dial.
		We're going to be talking about your money, our money, our economy.
		This really is scary stuff.
unidentified		This really is scary stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Let me clear something up first with Joseph.
		Joseph, in your bio, it says you have been an industry arbitrator and mediator with the NASD.
		Does that mean NASDAQ, or is that an organization unto itself?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		That is NASDAQ, Oregon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		NASDAQ, okay.
		I'm sorry.
		I wasn't sure, and I wanted to be clear on that.
		With NASDAQ, all right.
		Well, certainly glad to have you on the program.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, and Coast to Coast AM, for having me this evening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've been a, I don't know, like I guess everybody doesn't do it, but I watch our economy very closely.
		And I've had a sort of a rough sense lately that we're sort of on some sort of a precipice.
		Now, maybe what you have to say will confirm that, or perhaps not.
		But I'm very interested in what your view is the U.S. economy.
		In other words, where are we?
		Let's just keep it into this year.
		We're supposedly in a recovery right now.
		Some people say it's a jobless recovery.
		Is it a recovery, technically?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, Art, we've got the worst job picture, I think, of any so-called recovery since 1930.
		And we're continuing to see jobs move offshore.
		And we're continuing to see, I believe, companies be very reluctant to come ahead and begin to hire.
		As you know, we've had interest rates falling now for four years.
		And one would have to believe at this point in the economic cycle that companies should be coming ahead and starting to hire.
		And unfortunately, they are not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's not happening.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		No, it is not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you expect interest rates to start up shortly?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		I believe we most likely have seen the bottoming of interest rates.
		And just over the last few weeks, we have seen short and long-term interest rates start to move back up and move up significantly.
		So I think we are going to see higher interest rates.
		Hopefully, they don't go too much higher until at least we get past the election.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm sure if the administration has anything to do with it, they'll stay more or less where they are at least until the election.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But that's when you think it will change and they'll start to go up.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see CNN report frequently on the amount of consumer debt, that America really is in debt and that we don't save a great deal and that a lot of people have their credit cards maxed out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How really big a problem is this, Joseph?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		I think it's a very big problem, and I think very few people Really understand the ramifications of this consumer credit.
		Currently, we have now outstanding consumer credit, which would include mortgages and audit loans, $9.3 trillion.
		And we've seen a $2 trillion increase in those loans just in the last 36 months.
		So the American consumer is now spending roughly about 18% of after-tax income just to cover his existing debt.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		18% of the average person's take-home pay?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just for the debt?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's almost usury.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Well, how does this end?
		I mean, it can't have a happy ending, can it?
		Because it seems like this cannot continue to be supported.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		No, it cannot be continued to be supported.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		And I think when you take a look at the average debt load that is out there per household, and that's if you would include in it the mortgage, and if you would include in it certainly other debts, it's about $18,700 per household.
unidentified		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a lot of debt.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		A lot of debt.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But on the other hand, others would argue, Joseph, that why the U.S. has always operated that way, that that's how we became as wealthy as we are by sort of floating everything.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, Art, the total debt of America is now approximately $31 trillion, and it's currently about three times the GNP of the U.S. So no nation on the face of the earth has ever carried a greater debt load.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Perhaps you could explain to those listening how that works.
		In other words, $31 trillion.
		I can barely even imagine that much money.
		But all right, we're in debt $31 trillion.
		Who has loaned us this money?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think the point is everyone has loaned us this money from the banks to the foreigners to the credit card companies.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Everyone has lent us this money.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I've always heard that, for example, the Japanese buy U.S. bonds.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Yes, they do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And presumably other nations buy U.S. bonds as well.
		And as long as these nations are buying our bonds, why everything's hunky-dory, because they, in essence, are continuing to support us by buying them.
		Now, if they start to lose confidence in us because, oh, I don't know, because we owe too much and we don't make enough, you know, the basic principles here, then you don't buy U.S. bonds.
		Then what happens?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think a bigger problem, Mart, is, as you know, we've had a major fall in the dollar over the last two years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A worrisome fall.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		And the dollar has fallen approximately 30 percent, even though in the last two months it's rebounded about 10 percent.
		But the reason for the weakness in the dollar is we've got 45-year low interest rates here.
		And I think at some point we're going to have to see interest rates go up if we're going to continue to see the foreigners come into the markets and buy our debt.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So in other words, you are suggesting that at some point they could not view our bonds as attractive.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		I think that could be a very good possibility.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And if they stopped purchasing our bonds?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, if they stopped purchasing our bonds, it would be literally impossible to continue to finance our budgetary deficits.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How would this I mean, if you can project a scenario like that, how would this unfold for America?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What would it mean to the average person listening tonight if that came tumbling down?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think you have to put in perspective how much of these bonds these foreigners actually hold.
		And I think you have to look at the credit worthiness of the United States now that we've leveraged out to the point that we have.
		I think when you look at governmental debt, when you look at corporate debt, when you look at consumer debt, it's all dependent upon people coming in, buying that debt, and assuming the risk that it can be repaid.
		Naturally, if something were to go wrong and we were to see a given number of defaults, I think it would certainly send some very strong signals down through the bond market.
		I think at some point we are going to have to see higher rates.
		I don't think it's a question of if, it's a question of when.
		And hopefully, when we see rates go up, we don't see them go up that much, hopefully.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But if it didn't work out, if there was a loss of confidence, a big loss of confidence, and there was a sort of a collapse, I mean, how does that the average person listening right now really can't imagine how that might affect them?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think what would happen is if the foreigners lost confidence in our ability to be able to come ahead and certainly service our debt, more importantly, remain creditworthy as the dollar continues to erode in value, they would certainly want to dump all these Treasury bonds.
		The problem would be, who would the buyers be to step in and buy that paper?
		And the problem would be we would see bond prices significantly hindered by the inability of anyone to step in and buy that paper when it would come to the market.
		That, in turn, I think, would panic the U.S. equity markets, which in turn, I think, would spill over to the housing markets due to the leverage that we have there with the banks having placed all these mortgages.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, this is all sounding pretty technical, and I understand to some degree it has to, but still I'm asking, let's say that I own a house and I've got a mortgage and I've got a job and I sort of make it paycheck to paycheck.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When this finally filtered down to me, what's it going to mean to me?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, what it may mean to you is you may have to come in and pay off that mortgage.
unidentified		Oh.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		And the bank may demand payment.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		And if you were unable to certainly pay down what would be owed on the house, you would certainly have a foreclosure problem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Joseph, could they really do that?
		I mean, I remember the old saying about if you are in trouble, that's one thing.
		If the bank is in trouble, that's something else altogether.
		But if I've got a deal with my bank with reference to my mortgage and I've made my payments on time so far, just because they get in trouble, where do they get the right to suddenly call that loan?
		Under what circumstances could they do that?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, banks, as you know, are continuing to always evaluate the credit worthiness of the people who borrow from them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Certainly.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		And if they were to come ahead and deem you no longer credit worthy, they could come in and foreclose on that loan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		See, that's frightening stuff.
		That really is frightening stuff.
		And so their estimate of my financial situation could be influenced by, for example, their own economic distress at any given moment?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Possibility, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Those of you with mortgages need to think that one over really hard.
		Now, Joseph, in California, I have a lot of friends that are just sort of doing a dance because their homes are worth an unbelievable amount of money.
		I mean, some people have got homes in L.A. and San Francisco.
		They're jumping up and down because the price of their homes is suddenly rising astronomically.
		It's just unbelievable.
		How a young couple with jobs can go out and even qualify to buy a home in a lot of areas of California escapes me totally.
		I don't know how they can do it.
		Not with those prices.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think the housing market in California is insane, and I think prices will probably work even higher.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		I think we're getting to the point now that even with a two-income household, it's almost impossible to be able to come ahead and service the debt along with making these large mortgage payments.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		So you actually view the housing market there as going yet higher through, what, the end of the year?
		Or can you project beyond that?
		What do you think?
		I mean, it's a big housing bubble.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think you have to keep in perspective where mortgage rates were a year ago and basically where they are now.
		You take a 30-year fixed mortgage, a federal home loan mortgage, it's currently $601.
		A year ago, ART, it was $570.
		So we've only seen roughly 30 basis points in about a year in a 30-year fixed mortgage.
		Now, a 15-year is currently $535, and a year ago, it was approximately $503.
		So these mortgage rates, even though rates have started to move up, are still at this point extremely attractive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But again, let me circle back to my original question.
		Do you believe this will keep climbing through the end of the year?
		Where do you see the housing bubble turning?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think the states, the two states where I believe we've seen the most appreciation in housing has probably been New York, Pennsylvania, New Jersey in the Northeast, and most certainly California on the West Coast.
		I think there are pockets around the country now that are starting to weaken.
		I think this job market is certainly getting tougher, and I think we're looking at situations now where if we lose one of the wage earners in a family, these families at this point are unable to come ahead and service any kind of a mortgage payment.
		Can't do it on one income.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, okay.
		You just mentioned jobs outsourcing, companies outsourcing jobs again.
		Let's talk about that for a second.
		What would you see done about that?
		In other words, this is America, land of the free, home of the brave, and the free part is really important.
		If you own a company making widgets and you find you can get your widgets made for, I don't know, 25% of what it would cost for that widget here, and you can get it done in China for a quarter or less of what it would cost here, you're going to do it.
		And, of course, they are doing it.
		And what do you do to prevent that?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, again, I think you have to look at the big picture.
		And if you go back since 1986, we've lost 15 million manufacturing jobs in the U.S. We've lost 2.7 million manufacturing jobs just in the last three years.
		And that's against the backdrop of interest rates being the lowest in 45 years.
		So companies are continuing to move offshore.
		When I was young, 25% of the workforce worked in manufacturing.
		Now we have approximately 10% of the workforce working in manufacturing.
		So we have literally dismantled our manufacturing base in this country.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's something to think about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Did you say now we have one in 10 working in manufacturing?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		No, we have about 10% of the workforce currently employed in manufacturing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that would be one in 10 of workers.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		And in the 1950s and early 1960s, we had 25% of the workforce employed in manufacturing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And the presumption being that the balance have all gone overseas?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Yes, they have.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Very few people realize that Walmart now is China's eighth largest trading partner.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that a fact?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		That is a fact.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Walmart is China's eighth largest trading partner.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Holy mackerel.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		China and India are 40% of the world's population.
		They have become, in the last five years, an economic powerhouse.
		Very few people, I think, can grasp that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I can.
		I can, Joseph.
		I spent some time in China, and when I was there, I went to Shenzhen.
		You know, the sort of the financial, Joseph, it scared me as I've rarely ever been scared in my life.
		I went by 40 miles of factories, nothing but non-stop factories.
		If I were to close my eyes and ignore the signs in Chinese, it could have been the industrial United States back in its heyday.
		I mean, there it was just commerce everywhere, 18 wheelers and factories and buzzing and commerce going on like crazy.
		And that was some number of years ago, Joseph.
		And I remember looking at my wife Ramona and saying, this is unbelievable.
		And in the end, either we're going to figure a way to join with them or they're going to run over us like yesterday's laundry.
		Listen, we've got a break here at the bottom of the hour, but we'll pick up on this when we get back.
		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		I see the bad moon rising.
		I see trouble on the way.
		Can't believe what you're hearing?
		Listen to it again when you sign up for Streamlink at www.coastocoastam.com.
		It's only 15 cents a day.
		Don't go around tonight Let's finally take your life There's a bad moon on the right I'm I feel hurricane blowing.
		I know the end coming to I feel rippling.
		You take it down, you take myself on home.
		Another, another day goes by.
		Another time I'm not too wonderful.
		You have to get to play my home.
		You take the time, you take my love for home.
		I've been creatures of the night.
		I haven't got the will to try and fight against the moon tomorrow.
		So I guess I'll just believe it that tomorrow will never come.
		I said tonight, I'm living in the farthest of the dreams.
		I know the night is not as it would seem.
		I must believe in something so I'll make myself believe it.
		This night will never go.
		Oh, oh, oh, oh.
		To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
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		To talk with Art Bell from East to the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
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art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is.
		Tomorrow night, Brian Sykes will be here.
		He's written a fascinating book.
		Actually, this goes back about six months ago when I began to try and get Dr. Sykes on the program.
		He's written a book called Adam's Curse.
		And basically, it says the Y chromosome, you know, the guy chromosome is a genetic ruin and that men ultimately are doomed.
		And I've been working massaging Brian for about six months to get him on the air.
		Tomorrow night, he'll be here.
		And there's always something, isn't there?
		There's just always something.
		And with Brian Sykes, it's going to be goodbye to mankind.
		Underline the man part.
unidentified		Man.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Man, I'm still thinking, Walmart is China's eighth largest trading partner?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
		All right.
		Well, anyway, let's talk.
		I mentioned to you what I had observed about China, and what I saw, Joseph, just scared the tar out of me.
		I saw this industrial monster that I'd only seen pictures of back in America's heyday.
		And so I would imagine this many years later, it's even more so.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, Lord, I can give you a couple of statistics that will now, I think, confirm what you've just said to your listening audience just on what China's consumed in the last year.
		They consume 40% of the world's cement, 31% of the world's global coal, 27% of all the world's steel produced, 25% of all the world's aluminum produced, and they use 7% of the world's total consumption of oil.
		They've now surpassed Japan as the number one importer of oil.
		That's how big China's economy has become.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a big wow.
		I had no idea it had gone that quickly.
		And I suppose it would be possible, Joseph, to project as China industrializes, which they're now rapidly doing, what it will look like five or ten or twenty years from now.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, Or, just their consumption of oil has increased 30 percent in the last year, and I think that's probably one of the most basic underlying causes of why we've seen energy move up as significantly as it has.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I hadn't even thought of that.
		I'm always, of course, like everybody else, concentrating on the Middle East and OPEC and so forth and so on.
		I never even considered China.
		Did you say they've increased their oil use by 30 percent in the last one year?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's incredible, Joseph.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Incredible is right, Oil.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, as I said, if you project and look at five years or ten years from now, where does that leave the world oil market?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		I don't even want to think about it.
unidentified		Whew.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, some would say that we're in a war now because of oil.
		I don't know if I would say that.
		I perhaps suspect it certainly has something to do with oil.
		I don't know.
		But, gee, five years from now or ten years from now, the whole world could be aflame because of oil, couldn't it?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		I think that's a very good possibility.
		And I think if things even stay stable to somewhat of a point, we're going to see significantly higher energy prices in the U.S. I read in the paper this morning the truckers out in California protesting $2.50 a gallon fuel costs had a rise of 36 cents a gallon just in two weeks.
		And it's currently now 56 cents a gallon higher than the national average.
		Where is this going to end?
		I wish I had the answer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that was going to be my question for you, Joseph.
		Obviously, prices are on the rise.
		And even looking at the short term, Joseph, what does it look like will happen?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, oil art hit $40.42 a barrel in 1990, and that would be the equivalent in today's dollars of $57.27 a barrel.
		Crude oil makes up approximately about 48% of the price of a gallon of gas.
		I believe we're going to see oil move significantly higher, and I've got a target for oil probably in the next three years, $65 a barrel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My God.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		I hope I'm wrong, but that's where I think oil can go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And if oil did go there, I'm a veteran, as many in the audience are, of the 70s oil crisis.
		Yes.
		If it were to go to that price, what would it be like?
		I mean, people, a lot of times, Joseph, don't stop and think that the goods and services that move across America on these 18-wheelers that are so prolific on our highways, they all depend on the price of diesel, which is the price of oil, really.
		And if it goes up past a certain point, this begins to tip the whole U.S. economy, doesn't it?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		You are absolutely right.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		And I think this is one of the reasons why we've seen grocery prices just in the last three years go up 50%.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My wife has noted that.
		She comes back from the grocery store and goes, oh, my God, you should see the prices.
		And that's because of all the costs involved.
		You know, for example, we're out here in the middle of the desert.
		Everything is trucked in or it doesn't get here, pretty much.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So we're dependent on these guys to keep driving their trucks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I don't know, the independent truck driver, for example, at what point does he get squeezed out of the game altogether?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		I think he's being squeezed out of the game, quite frankly, right now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then at some point past that, the larger corporations that you might think more easily would absorb the increase in oil or gas prices, they'll get in trouble too, won't they?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Eventually, they have to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So are we going to see $3 gas this summer?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are we going to see $3 gas within a year?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		I think eventually, Art, we see $4 a gallon gasoline, very similarly to what they've been paying, as you know, in Europe for many years.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Will that price be reflected by the fact that we start taxing gas and oil at equivalent rates with Europe?
		Or are we going to arrive there based on the price of a barrel of oil?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		I think, quite frankly, Ort is going to be a combination of both of those factors.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How will our economy be sustained if that were to occur, Joseph?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, as you know, in the 1970s, and I was certainly around those days, and I had a gas-guzzling Cadillac that had a 26-gallon gas tank.
		And when I bought the car, gas was 40 cents a gallon.
		Well, three years later, we had gas at $1 a gallon, which everybody thought was outrageous.
		And where I filled up that tank for a little over $10, it was now costing me over $25.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		And I remember, as I'm sure you do, when you used to go in and buy the gas with odd and even license plates, and you could get 10 gallons.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I remember fist fights, Joseph.
		I remember I had just a little inconvenience.
		Well, actually, a fair amount of inconvenience.
		It would break into fist fights over gasoline.
		Some people listening will not remember that, but I can assure you it occurred.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you think this would be much worse?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		I think it has to be much worse.
		I think we have more cars on the road now than ever before.
		We have more vehicles burning tremendous amounts of gasoline.
		And I think one of the major problems is we haven't built a refinery in the United States in 15 years.
		So we have limited capacity to refine crude oil into gasoline and diesel and heating oil.
		We don't have the refining capacity, even if we were to get OPEC to increase the production.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then, of course, there are questions about how much oil there actually is even left for the world to consume.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And when peak oil has occurred, some are suggesting peak oil could have already occurred.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		I think that's a very good possibility.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You do?
		Yes, do you see, Joseph, any major replacement for oil?
		Do you see anything on the economic horizon that will mitigate rising oil prices and even availability eventually?
		Anything out there that will save our butts?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, Art, they've been talking about developing these synthetic fuels for many, many years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		You know, ethanol has been, I think, an alternative to gasoline, but it has never caught on, I think, the way that it should have.
		And I think people have basically said if we can keep gasoline in a very narrow price range, we're just going to leave well enough alone.
		And we did have gasoline stay within a 10 or a 15 cent a gallon price range for a couple of years.
		But what we've seen now is we're getting into the summer months, and we're going to have peak travel on all the highways.
		In Florida, we first now have gotten gasoline over $2.
		In fact, I've seen it today.
		It's $209 a gallon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you ought to see it out here.
		I don't know what the latest is, but we use premium, and it's around, my wife will tell me, it's approaching $230 or something.
		It's getting way up there.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, I understand they've had gas up to $295 a gallon in San Francisco.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure that's correct, yes.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		And the other states where they've had price records as well have been Nevada and West Virginia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes.
		Well, I'm in Nevada.
		Oh.
		So there you are.
		Very high indeed, and getting to the point where it's really not going to be affordable for some people to make the commute they once made or for truck drivers to economically survive.
		And then things will begin to tumble down.
		And I just can you project when that will occur?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, as you know, Art, a lot of economists have been concerned that rising interest rates would choke off the economic recovery.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		At this point, quite frankly, I'm not too concerned, at least between now and the end of the year, with what rising interest rates could do to the economic recovery, but I am very concerned with what energy costs could do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, as we saw in the 70s, it has a direct, very fast impact on the economy.
		There's no question about it.
		As the price of gas goes, so goes our economy, really.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, remember going back in the 70s when we had the gas lines and we had the shortages and the dealers were stuck with all these new cars and nobody would buy them?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, all the larger cars, yeah.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
		And then the Japanese came along with their smaller cars, and for a while, that was it.
		Everybody got rid of the big cars, bought the small.
		Boy, you could get a great deal on a big caddy.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you could.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are we around the corner from that occurring again?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		I hope not, but I think it's a possibility that we certainly at this point must consider.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have to wonder, I do, Joseph, knowing what we know, American car makers, manufacturers, went back to making big cars again.
		I mean, the American public really wanted, they were used to and wanted big cars, and so they did what the American public wanted.
		They started making big cars again.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Isn't it coincidental, Art?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		As soon as they came ahead, Detroit, and they retool for the larger cars, we're starting to see energy prices now accelerate and move a lot higher than we would have believed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely, yes.
		Yes, indeed.
		What do you make of all that?
		I mean, it doesn't seem to make sense.
		If you know energy prices are going to go up and you know demand is going to be for small, energy-efficient cars, why do you make big ones?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, because I think the public is now back to the go-go days of the 60s where they want to buy a lot of horsepower and they want to put these vehicles on the highway and they want to really enjoy them.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		I think when you look at the traffic on most of these roads throughout the United States, I'll tell you, taking a car out for a drive is not a pleasure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That certainly is true in many areas now.
		But yes, Americans love their horsepower, and I'm no different than anybody else, Joseph.
		I love the feel of a very powerful car, and I own one, but on the other hand, I drive around a Geometro about 99% of the time.
		So, I mean, what's going to happen when the prices continue up and people look at their big car and say, I can't afford that anymore.
		I need a small car?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		I think people are going to drive a lot less.
		I think they're going to certainly leave that gas guzzler in the garage.
		And I think they're going to have to downsize to a much more fuel economical vehicle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that will just be pushed by the rising price of gasoline, which you don't see coming back down and then working in a range.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You see it continuing to rise.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		I think $2 a gallon gasoline is here to stay.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		And I think if we get back down on average around the country to $2 a gallon, we're going to be very fortunate.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I asked a little while ago, and I'm going to try again, from an economic standpoint, do you see anything out there, Joseph, that will come along and save the day?
		I mean, whether it's ethanol or, gosh, I don't know, hydrogen or electric cars or whatever one might imagine could be available.
		Is there anything out there working right now behind the scenes?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		If there is, Art, I don't know about it.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		And if there is, I don't think it would be developed to the point of it being truly economical within the timeframe of where these energy prices are headed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		My friends and I have had many hot, heated arguments about this job outsourcing.
		And I just got, here's something from my computer.
		I get these little messages as we do a show.
		Great show, Art.
		question for you guys.
		Outsourcing accounts for a loss of approximately 1.5 million jobs, but insourcing accounts for about 6 million jobs.
		Isn't that a good thing?
		In other words, he's saying that I don't know what he means by insourcing.
		I presume foreigners taking jobs here.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think when you look at the quality of the jobs that are being exported overseas, these were high-paying jobs.
		These were certainly very technical jobs.
		And I think when you take a look at the type of jobs that are being created, certainly to replace the jobs that are moving offshore, they're not of the same quality.
		They certainly don't pay a decent wage.
		They certainly don't have the benefits to them of the job that we lost to the offshore markets.
		So we may be creating jobs, but they're low-paying jobs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
		All right, Joseph, you know, this is the eternal argument, but I'd love an answer to it.
		You're an economist, not a politician.
		But an American company, should they not be free to outsource jobs?
		Should there be some government law regulation saying, no, you just can't do it.
		I mean, you want to make your widgets?
		Either you make them in Cincinnati or somewhere in the U.S. or you don't make them at all?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, Art, I think it comes down to what is the loyalty of the consumer who steps up and buys their products.
		I certainly like to buy products just like anyone else as inexpensively as I can.
		But I think if it were to be a situation where I would buy a non-U.S.
		made product versus an overseas-made product to save money at the expense of seeing a U.S. worker lose his job, I wouldn't do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But that's not reality.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		No, it is not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Joseph.
		The reality is people will go and they will buy an item for the best price they can get.
		I mean, that's human nature, and we're not going to change that.
		So can we change the freedom an American company presently has to outsource a job?
		Should we change that, Joseph?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		I'm not sure whether or not we should change that, but I think companies have an obligation to come ahead and create decent paying jobs in this country if you expect its citizens to buy your product.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, that might be fair enough to say, I suppose.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But again.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Is it reality?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, it's not reality.
		It's not.
		And so the only way to step in the middle of that and ensure that jobs stay in America would be to virtually pass a law and say you can't send those jobs overseas, which, of course, in turn would have the effect of driving a business out of business, right?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it's a sort of big conundrum, isn't it, Joseph?
		To stay in business, they have to do it, and when they do it, they cost American jobs.
		Listen, stay where you are.
		I really do want to continue with this discussion.
		I'm Art Bell.
		Joseph Meyer is my guest.
unidentified		Adon-num-mah.
		Adon-num-mah.
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art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really, I guess we're asking, do freedom and a rosy economic outlook go together?
		I mean, if you have the freedom to take your jobs elsewhere, to put them in China where you can get your widget really cheap, and you can get rich making it there and distributing it here, okay, that's your freedom.
		But if the long-term effect of that is that Americans don't have jobs and we go into a depression, well, what kind of freedom is that?
		We'll be right back.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once again, here is Joseph Meyer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Joseph, Welcome back.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I guess you're an economist.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that fair to say?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm a professional money manager.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		I have a management consulting firm, as you know, and we get involved doing consultation on matters relating to arbitration or mediation in the forums of the NASD or the New York Stock Exchange.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see you have no book to sell.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have a website, and I think you've got a link to it, but that's all a website.
		Why are you speaking so publicly, Joseph?
		What is driving you to speak out publicly?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right, I got into Wall Street in 1966.
		I bought my first 100 shares of stock as a 19-year-old and wanted to get up on Wall Street after I had completed my service during Vietnam.
		And I've noticed over the last two years, and I do talk to a lot of newspaper business writers, and I do talk to a lot of magazine financial editors.
		And the minute they interview you and you tell them that you don't like the economy and you think the stock market's overvalued, they don't want to hear a thing you have to say.
unidentified		No, they do not.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Unless you're willing to tell them that everything is fine and the market's going higher and things have never been better, they're not interested in writing a thing that you would have to say even if you could show them very hard statistics to prove the concerns that you have in the marketplace.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why do you think that's true, Joseph?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think the media is very well managed, and I think these markets are equally very well managed.
		And I think right now we've got everybody on board from Washington on down that want this economic recovery to continue.
		And I think, Art, quite frankly, one of the main ingredients is to keep telling the public things are fine and they're going to get better.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Yes.
		Well, perception is a big item, isn't it?
		Absolutely.
		It determines whether you feel good about things.
		And then if you feel good, you go out and invest or buy a house or do something for the economy, right?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And if you don't feel good about it, well, then you probably don't.
		And we'll talk about some of the things you can do if you don't feel good about the economy.
		But I do want to talk about this question of the outsourcing of jobs.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's such a giant problem that I don't see a solution.
		And of course, perhaps you do.
		I mean, if you were in charge of the world, or at least the United States, and you were addressing this outsourcing problem, Joseph, what would you do?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, Art, I think, first of all, you have to understand how bad this unemployment picture truly is.
		24% of jobless workers have now been unemployed for 27 weeks.
		That's a 20-year high just in that statistic alone.
		42% of Americans are now making the minimum or no payment on their credit card balances.
		That's equally very alarming.
		But to tie in the point that you want to make, the fastest growing segment that's getting over its head now in debt is the elderly, 65 and older.
		They're being squeezed by higher health insurance, drug costs, and they're struggling to maintain their pre-retirement lifestyles.
		They're using credit cards to close the gap.
		These credit card companies, as you know, they're levying late fees, over-the-limit penalties.
		They're jacking up the interest rates.
		Their late fees and their penalties account for more than 30 percent of the card issuers' profits.
		So these credit card companies are, quite frankly, are making more money than ever before.
		And they're encouraging these people by issuing these additional credit cards to go deeper and deeper in debt.
		Everyone I've talked to in the Northeast in the last year has said to me, once you lose a job and you find another one, you're lucky to make half of what you were earning before.
		This is a horrendous job market, and I don't think the public realizes just how bad it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do.
		Having said all that, and I agree with you, it is that bad.
		What could be done to change it?
		Isn't it like a force of nature, almost, Joseph?
		In other words, money is going to seek money.
		And companies are going to go where they can make their widget to survive.
		It's like a law of nature.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, what angers me, quite frankly, Art, is they have a right to manufacture their widget anywhere that they can certainly go ahead and manufacture it profitably.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		But it angers me to think that they want to bring that widget back into this country and they expect the American public to buy it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, so then what do you do?
		Do you acknowledge and continue that freedom for them to outsource their widget, but what do you do?
		Just tax the holy hell out of it?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		I think that's certainly one thing that we should consider.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thereby discouraging outsourcing widget production.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I suppose that would be one way you could do it, as opposed to just simply telling companies they cannot have the freedom to do what they need to do.
		But that, of course, would bring with it its own set of problems.
		Right now, gee we can go as consumers and find all kinds of spiffy bargains all over the place.
		But if you stopped the flow of those bargains, Joseph, what would that do to America?
		I mean, all of a sudden, there would be a demand for things that we're not set to manufacture right now.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think the problem, quite frankly, Art, is we cannot compete with this sweatshop labor around the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course we can't.
		Of course we can't.
		But if we set up barriers, trade or tax barriers, that would stop the flow of those widgets coming back in, then what would be the resulting change in our consumer picture here?
		It would be pretty drastic for a while, wouldn't it?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		I think it would be extremely drastic, but I think one thing we could certainly Do is give these corporations tax incentives to stay in this country and continue to hire U.S. workers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The story that you get from those who support the current economic situation is that, look, yes, things have changed, and America now has become an information nation.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And of course, the question is, can we, as an information nation, ultimately win economically?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that going to be enough in our armor minus the manufacturing we used to do to keep us afloat, Joseph?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, I have to question now that we've dismantled our manufacturing capacity, and as you know, one of the biggest industries we have now is the military, continuing to build up and certainly produce the weapons that we need to keep our superiority around the world.
		But I'm looking at five major economic problems that I believe are very significant as we move forward.
		One would be the record consumer debt, and you and I have talked about that, I think, very thoroughly on the show.
		Number two is the very low consumer savings rate.
		We now have one of the lowest consumer savings rates in the world.
		Number three, which concerns me, is a very massive trade imbalance.
		And this imbalance, as I'm sure you agree, has been going on for a number of years.
		Number four, we now have a very large federal budget deficit.
		This is a major problem now, whether John Kerry would be elected in November or President Bush would win reelection.
		And finally, I think the biggest problem is we still have in this country, even with 45-year low interest rates, excessive industrial and technological capacity.
		And we have never worked that off.
		And that is a major, major problem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's take savings for a second since we discussed the amount of debt.
		What is going on with Americans that we don't save?
		I mean, that's just the truth.
		We don't save.
		Is it because people don't have the money to save, do you think, Joseph?
		In other words, they don't have the disposable income to put away, or do you think it's just a matter of they don't want to save?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, Art, the personal savings rate, which would be calculated as disposable income, certainly minus spending, has continued to fall.
		It's currently now less than 3 cents on a dollar earned.
		That's what's being saved.
		$0.3 cents on a dollar.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So the answer is we don't have the money to save.
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it's not a matter of just free spending Americans versus, say, the thrifty Japanese, or at least the way they once were.
		We really don't have the extra money to save.
		It's become that tight.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		It has become very tight.
		Japan continues to lead the world in savings, and then number two is Germany.
		They have also a very high savings rate as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If the United States were to get in deep financial trouble, were to go past a recession into some sort of depression and whatever it was, and there could be any number of things that we've already discussed that could tumble us there rather quickly.
		Yes.
		One would think that would have, since we're such big consumers here, that would have a large impact on the Japanese and the Germans.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It wouldn't just be a U.S. depression.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It would be a worldwide depression, wouldn't it?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it would.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So other nations have an interest in seeing our head stay above water, don't they?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Yes, they do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I wonder when you balance that against their confidence expressed in terms of buying our bonds and buying our debt, where those two meet and there's some sort of imbalance.
unidentified		Yes.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think the war in Iraq has cost us far more than anyone would have believed a year ago.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's for sure.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		And I think the war in Iraq will continue to cost us tremendous sums of money.
		We're being told that we're going to be pulling out once we install an Iraqi government.
		But this seems to me, having been through Vietnam, like a very similar situation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I, too, was in Vietnam, Joseph.
		It does have there are some parallels, aren't there?
		I don't see how we're going to get out.
		I don't fully, I guess, understand our reasons for going in.
		You know, we talked about weapons of mass destruction, and of course they haven't yet been found.
		Do you want to stick your neck out at all and talk about the war?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, the only thing I can say is I really question whether we had an exit strategy from when we entered the country.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		And I think when you do get involved in these conflicts, and certainly Vietnam is certainly something that I was part of, you question at the time we made the commitment, did we have an exit strategy in place?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's go back a little bit, and let me ask you if we had an entrance justification.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think we had a good, solid...
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So do you think we had a good entry motive?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think if we base it on finding the weapons of mass destruction, which at this point we've been able to find, I think we did have a very strong basis for invading the country.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		But I think certainly after the period of time that's gone by, I think it would be reasonable that if we were going to find these weapons, would you not think we'd have found them by now?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One would think so.
		Look at this economically, which should be easier for you, Joseph.
		Do you see an economic reason why we went to war in Iraq?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, as you know, Iraq has the second largest proven oil reserves in the world.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Unfortunately, they've never had the technological support that we've given to the Saudis over the last 35 years to really develop those oil fields and bring production online.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you suggesting that one of our motives could have been oil?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't think, quite frankly, you could rule it out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no.
		You certainly can't.
		So that would be a yes.
		Yes.
		How do you see that?
		I'm curious, developing.
		I mean, we are occupying Iraq.
		Have we ratcheted up the oil production of Iraq yet?
		And if not, is it because of all the resistance we're currently meeting or what?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think the answer to that, Art, is twofold.
		I think, number one, you're absolutely right that we are meeting much stiffer resistance a year after the invasion that certainly anyone could have contemplated.
		But I think more importantly, in the initial first weeks and months of the war, we had a lot of the transmission lines, which are very key to transmitting that oil out of Iraq destroyed.
		And those transmission lines will take years to repair and billions of dollars.
		And the Iraqis destroyed them.
		So that's the reason I believe we've not seen the oil come out of Iraq that everyone believed we would certainly have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have we begun to reconstruct those links?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		I think we have started to reconstruct them, but I think it's going to take probably two years to make the necessary repairs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why could we, if that was a major reason for the invasion, then had we not invaded, could we not have gone on buying oil from Saddam Hussein's Iraq?
		Or was it to the point where Saddam Hussein was so bad the UN was forbidding really much of any sort of oil sales?
		And really, it's the fact that the oil wasn't flowing that caused us to go in.
		I mean, it's pretty brutal to think about it that way.
		But you think that might be the truth?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think there's two answers to what you've just asked me.
		I think, number one, everyone is aware that these sorty oil fields are eventually going to run dry.
		They're not going to be able to pump at these levels forever.
		And I think a decision had to be made where we would have access to oil if these fields were to get into trouble.
		As you know, they've got a lot of terrorism there with these Islamic radicals.
		So I think that was certainly part of the equation.
		I think the other part of the equation is Saddam Hussein had threatened not to take payment for oil in U.S. dollars any longer, that he wanted to take payment in a European currency.
		And we weren't going to begin that because once we did that for him, we'd had to do it for everybody else.
		So I think that certainly played into the reasoning behind along with the weapons of mass destruction and the possibility of him having these weapons that certainly justified us going into that country.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So let me get this straight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Saddam Hussein had said that he would no longer take payment in U.S. dollars, and he was demanding euros?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		He was demanding Euros for payment of his oil, yeah.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		That's my understanding of part of the problem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll be damned.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm learning a lot tonight from you, Joseph.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're asking very good questions, Carson.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So how big a motivation in Washington would that have been?
		Suddenly wanting Euros, not wanting U.S. dollars?
		I mean, as they were calculating everything, a possibility of the Saudi oil fields drying up, all the rest of it.
		Is that the major reason we went to war?
		I mean, we've already sort of got to rule out the weapons of mass destruction.
		That seemed to fall apart pretty quick.
		So I've been wanting to understand this, and you're helping me.
		Was that enough of a reason to invade a nation?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, since 1945, the dollar has become an accepted global currency.
		And what we're seeing now with the erosion of the value of the dollar, we're starting to see, I think, a lot of people question, could we approach the day when the dollar would become totally worthless?
		I don't think anyone could certainly predict if and when that could happen.
		But I think these oil-producing countries, and as you know, going back to 73, 4, 7, the last time we had major problems with OPEC, they were interested in taking payment in a basket of currencies because they were so concerned with the inflation that we had in the United States and the start of very significantly higher interest rates.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, hold it right there, Joseph.
		Joseph Meyer is my guest, and we're discussing the state of our economy.
		As I told you and forecast for you, pretty, scary stuff.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		Where are those happy days?
		They seem so hard to find.
		I tried to reach for you, but you have closed too much.
		Whatever happened to our love.
		I wish I understood it just to face the lights.
		It used to face a good thing So when you're near me, darling Can't you hear me?
		S.O.S The love you gave me Nothing else can save me S.O.S When you're gone How can I even try to go on?
		When you're gone Though I try, how can I carry on?
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art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's never going to be another ABBA.
		Never.
		As a matter of fact, did you know recently, sticking with economics, ABBA, the group ABBA, turned down $2 billion.
		That's what it means.
		$2 billion to get back together again.
		said, in turning it down, it just never would be the same.
		Music Let's take the picture that Joseph has painted for us with regard to the amount of debt we have and is floated out there right now, the lack of savings in this country, the trade imbalance, which is growing and I guess will grow larger because of the outsourcing and all the rest of it,
		and as a result, the Federal deficit itself.
		All of this would seem to place us on an economic precipice that has the potential to collapse.
		Could there be another depression in the United States, Joseph?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, quite frankly, Art, I don't think you can rule it out.
		We certainly have more debt to service than ever before, and we certainly have people of the belief that we are going to see these markets move significantly higher.
		The Yale School of Management came out with a survey, and they basically polled the public, and 95% of the individuals and 92% of financial institutions believe the stock market will be higher in the next year.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you part of that group?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		No, I am not.
		I am very concerned with the rally we've had in this market.
		Certainly from the March 2002 lows, when you take a look at the insiders have sold this rally all the way up.
		So basically, we've seen insiders sell at a ratio of 20 to 1 versus stock that would be bought.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So what's happening?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are the little guys buying and the insiders selling?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		The insiders continue to sell the market as it moves higher.
		We had in Investors Intelligence, which is a survey of bullish versus bearish advisors, over 50 percent for 44 weeks.
		This is unprecedented sediment.
		Again, I think it ties in that people believe the economy is fine, that the market's going higher, that if there are any problems here, certainly if interest rates can stay low, we can manage them.
		So I think the little guy is back in the market.
		We've got margin debt now at $173 billion.
		It's up 30 percent in the last year.
		So I think the small investor, you're absolutely right, is now back full force in the stock market.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But not the institutionals?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, the institutions are back in the stock market, but I think the insiders, these corporate executives that run these companies, have continued to sell all the way up.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Now, what do they know that the public doesn't?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, how about the last hour and a half or so of what you've been telling us?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe they know that.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, it wouldn't be surprising that they know something because anyone that would continue to sell this rally over the last 16 months and never be a net buyer at any time this market has pulled back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're scared of something.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		I think they know that this market eventually will work a lot lower.
		Now, I've been part of Wall Street 32 years, and I've seen bull in bear markets.
		And there are, I'd like to say, are it four phases to a bull market?
		And I'd like to tell your listeners what they are.
		Bull markets are born usually on pessimism.
		They tend to grow on skepticism.
		They then mature on optimism.
		And then they finally die on euphoria.
		And I think we are at the point of euphoria.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Irrational exuberance?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think that would certainly be a label you could put to it.
		You know, we've got bubbles in housing, in the bond market, in the stock market, all simultaneously.
		We've got people leveraged out, I think, far more than they should be.
		We've got a lot of people one or two paychecks away from financial ruin.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a fact.
		Yeah, that's a fact.
		I know a lot of them.
		A lot of them are my friends, Joseph.
		It's absolutely common out there, a paycheck or two away from financial ruin.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Scary.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is frightening.
		And any quick or sudden or dramatic downturn in the economy would be catastrophic for these folks.
		There's just no question about it.
		Catastrophic.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, Art, one of the cheapest assets right now is cash.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		And very few people have very much of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you would advise people, then, to be liquid-heavy, to have cash around?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, I would advise people to start raising cash and certainly not be encouraged to go any further in debt on credit cards.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		You know, the average credit card, Art, even with 45-year low interest rates, still carries an interest rate of 14%.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You bet.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		It's ridiculous.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've got to read the fine print.
		You know, it starts out, I notice the latest hook seems to be starting you out with a very good interest rate, and that lasts for a certain amount of time, and then up she goes.
		And you don't get to that unless you read the very fine print.
		Or you don't pay one of your credit card bills on time.
		I try and pay mine always instantly.
		I'm sure they hate my guts.
		I just constantly pay my credit cards off.
		I use them because they're convenient.
		I'm out in the middle of nowhere.
		I can order on the Internet and all that sort of wonderful thing.
		But I pay them off always on time.
		And I've heard that there are actually some companies that they get so sick of people paying off their credit cards that they look for ways to charge them for being good.
		Isn't that right?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		That is absolutely right.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		But to talk about bankruptcies, in the last year, we had one in 73 households file for bankruptcy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Do you know what state had the highest bankruptcy filings?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take a guess.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm afraid to what?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Utah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Utah.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		One in 47 households file for bankruptcy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why Utah?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		I don't have an answer to that.
		Apparently, the economy in Utah must be in deep, deep trouble.
		But after Utah, the states with the most bankruptcies were Tennessee, Georgia, and Nevada.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Figures.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I knew we'd be in there soon.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		You know what state had the lowest number of bankruptcies?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll take a stab.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Vermont.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		No, Alaska.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Alaska?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, now that's interesting.
		What's going on economically in Alaska that's so good?
		I mean, I know they've got, of course, the pipeline, but that's old news.
		What's sustaining the Alaskan economy in such a way?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, as you know, they're very rich in natural resources, and fishing has certainly been one of their premier industries.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Naturally, after that debacle with that Exxon Valdez, I mean, the fisheries have never come back, and it's been well over 10 years that that spill happened, and they've really damaged that environment beyond, I think, what anyone could have believed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So at any rate, though, Alaska still seems to be doing fairly well, according to bankruptcy records.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		They're doing very well.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		But last year, for the calendar year, we had 1,660,000 bankruptcies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a bunch.
		Yes.
		And what do you think the next two or three years will bring in that category?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, Art, I think if we see a decline in housing as little as 20 percent, I think it would put a lot of people in bankruptcy.
		You've got a lot of people now mortgaged to the hilt.
		We've had a lot of people with these low interest rates refinance and take the equity out of the home.
		A lot of them have taken that equity and they've spent it.
		They've invested it in the stock market.
		I mean, they are facing now payments for 20 and 30 years that right now people will say to you, well, the interest rates are low.
		My payment's low.
		But take a look at the amount of money you're going to repay.
		What happens when the home doesn't appreciate any longer?
		What happens when the house goes down and you owe more on the mortgage than the house is worth?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Everything you've said to me, Joseph, points to economic Armageddon, but you haven't said that.
		I mean, you've all but said it, so you might as well say it.
		I mean, if even half of what you've talked about goes over the top, whether our debt gets to be too much, any one of these, the trade imbalance, the outsourcing, all the rest, all of this, any one of these things, the oil could explode and would be like a dagger in the heart of the economy.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think the biggest problem, and we touched on it earlier, Art, is this outsourcing of good paying jobs.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		How is America going to service its debt when it's earning less now than it did before?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		No.
		I wish I had the answer to that.
		You've got two wage earners in a household.
		What happens if one loses their job?
		They're immediately facing bankruptcy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
		That's correct.
		I mean, we have a nation roughly in the situation you've described, certainly a pay check or two away from their own personal economic Armageddon.
		And if something really bad, if any one of these things went south, you know, so many in the middle class would suddenly not be making it that you have to wonder where that would lead and how quickly.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think people are living paycheck to paycheck.
		They're not concerned about losing their job.
		I think it is becoming increasingly difficult for corporate America to turn a profit.
		I think we are continuing to see downsizing.
		We are continuing to see layoffs.
		We are continuing to see plant closings.
		Can you name one industry that's actually hiring a side of possibly defense?
		I can't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
		No, I can't.
		But let's take a selfish little turn here for a moment.
		And along with all of this potential bad news and real bad news for the economy, what would you recommend to people personally?
		I mean, if you're talking to someone out there right now living paycheck to paycheck and they say, okay, you know, I'm kind of buying what Joseph is selling here.
		I believe this, but what can they do?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think you certainly should be looking at, as I said earlier, not taking on any additional debt.
		Certainly, you should be looking to reduce your debt.
		There are ways in which you can do that.
		If you've bought a home and I think you've built some halfway decent equity in it, it may not be a bad idea to sell that house, pay off the mortgage, and go and rent for a while.
		Because if I'm right on what's going to happen with housing, you're going to be able to come back in the market two years from now at certainly prices far less than they are today.
		And if I'm wrong and prices continue to go somewhat higher, at least you're going to have cash.
		You're going to have your equity so that if you lose your job, you're going to be able to live until this economy turns around.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a rare thing to hear someone like yourself coming from Wall Street telling people basically to convert what they have into cash.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, that just doesn't come from the mouths of people like yourself, Joseph.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've worked very hard for everything that I've ever gotten.
		I built my reputation in this industry on my honesty and my integrity.
		I've always been man enough to admit where I've been wrong.
		I think the key in life and certainly very important as we look at the economics of moving forward, if you're leveraged out and you've got a chance now to reduce that leverage and pay back some of the money you owe and certainly put some money in the bank, you're going to be in a far better position than everybody trying to sell housing at the same time.
		I think if these rates move up, you're going to see a fire sale of houses, everybody trying to get out and no buyers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One barometer of the state of our economy is usually gold.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As the market goes down, gold almost reliably always goes up because it means people are losing confidence in the state of things.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've seen gold rise, but it seems to me that I have not seen it rise proportionately with anywhere near the understanding of a lot of what you've explained tonight about the state of the economy.
		It should be going way up, Joseph.
		Why hasn't it?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think a simple answer to that art is 1% of the American investment public currently owns gold and silver.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that all?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Yes, 1%.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		1%.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's amazing.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		1% of you all out there own gold or silver.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Is it lost, the concept that gold would be good to be into in hard economic times?
		Has that concept been forgotten, or why is the amount of ownership so low?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, the last time we had 850 gold, which I'm sure you remember in 1980 and 81, we had 10-year treasuries.
		They were yielding 13%.
		10-year treasuries are now yielding 4.55%.
		So since 1980, we've had the Dow gain 12-fold.
		We've seen real estate go up six-fold.
		And we have gold selling at half.
		It's 1980, 81, 880 peak.
		Silver is selling for 1 eighth of its $50 peak.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But that doesn't make sense.
		All of that you just described does not make sense.
		If there are enough insiders, at least, aware of the situation, you would think the price of gold would be on the rise.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think the price of gold has been artificially held down.
		I think they were very concerned, as you know, when we traded over $400 an ounce.
		We've had gold literally go up 66 percent from the 255 an ounce low that was put in a little over 16 months ago.
		So we've got the dollar at an eight-year low, and I believe silver is probably the most undervalued asset on the face of the earth.
		So I like silver, Art, quite frankly, better than I like gold.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it going to be too sensitive for me to ask you about manipulation in our markets, Joseph, whether it be the metal markets, precious metals, or even the market itself?
		I have watched some of the strangest happenings.
		When the market gets very volatile, I actually will sit for hours watching the ticker.
		You know, you kind of get to be, it's kind of like a drama.
		You know, when it's really volatile, it is very dramatic indeed.
		And there are times, Joseph, where I could just swear that somebody stepped in and made what was happening stop.
		And I refer to a precipitous fall in the Dow.
		I mean, just suddenly, really frightening.
		And it's like there was nothing to change the atmosphere of selling that was going on, except suddenly it did change.
		And somebody like myself sits back at those moments and says, hmm, I wonder if some large federal institution just did something.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're absolutely right.
		There's a piece of legislation dating back to 1980, which very few people are aware of.
		And that legislation is titled the Monetary Control Act of 1980.
		You can go on the Internet.
		You can find that legislation.
		You can read it.
		What it basically says, and the reason that that legislation or quite frankly was enacted is, as you know, in the early 1980s, there were serious problems with Mexico.
		And there was a problem that Mexico would default on the indebtedness that it had to the U.S. And we had some big banks, money-centered banks, that were holding an awful lot of Mexico's debt.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I remember that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very scary.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, what happened, the legislators came ahead and they put in place the Monetary Control Act of 1980.
		And what the Monetary Control Act basically says is the Fed can intervene in any market at any time.
		And I think we have seen Fed intervention, and I think we've seen it in the bond market, and I think we've seen it probably in the stock market as well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's incredible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's probably no way to prove it, is there?
unidentified		No.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		But the legislation is on the books that would allow them to intervene in any market at any time for any reason.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		You didn't know that, did you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I absolutely did not know that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I thought that I actually saw it happen.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		You're right.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		You did see it happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Hold on, Joseph.
		We're going to get to calls here shortly.
		So if you have a question for Joseph Meyer, this would be a good time.
		He does have a website.
		He's not selling a book, but he's got a website: www.meyerassociate.
		That's M-E-Y-E-R-A-S-S-O-C.com.
		Let me do that again.
		And we've got a link up there for you.
		It's www.m-E-Y-E-R-A-S-S-O-C.com.
		So if you want to take a look, that's the way to do it.
		From the high desert in the middle of the night, where the shadows and art bell roam, this is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		What's that sound?
		Another word for the sound.
		Ten after midnight under starry satellite skies.
		A light wig digging in the cover of dark.
		Can't stop it.
		I hear that right.
		Live conversations, beaming out just all in the dark.
		Real life phone line, all their experts.
		Warning the world things are falling apart.
		Coast to coast.
		To the average joy, heart to outside close.
		Yeah, the truth is out there.
		Ask God Bill Mary of 51.
		Aliens and lazy girls who hypothetized wars at last.
		Right out of control.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Conspiracy.
unidentified		To talk with Art Bell.
		Call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
		From west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach ART by calling your in-country sprint access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that's Sean Hogan, for those of you who haven't heard it and don't know.
		He's singing about us, folks, and this program.
		And it's actually a really nice song.
unidentified		I like it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, we're talking with Joseph Meyer, and you know, I've got a couple of detectors here, like a lot of you.
		One of them is a BS detector, and that goes off a lot.
		And then over here, I've got a truth detector, and that goes off a lot too.
		And as I listen to Joseph Meyer, the truth detector is just really pagan out.
		I mean, what we're hearing here sounds like the truth.
		Now, you may make your own assessment of that, but I certainly have, and I'm hearing a lot of truth in what's going on with our economy right now.
		You'll be right back, and we're going to go to the phones.
unidentified		We'll be right back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		There's just the ring of truth to it all.
		Once again, Joseph Meyer.
		Joseph, it's certainly nice to have you on this program.
		But as you mentioned, with what you have to say about what's going on with our economy, do you think that there will be a media position for you as sort of a, I don't know, there's a lot of people on the air who have talk shows and things like that about our economy.
		But as you pointed out earlier, they're usually the types that are sort of cheerleaders.
		And I understand that.
		I understand why, for example, a president has to come out and say the basic underlying economy is sound.
		That's usually a required statement when it's not.
		Yes.
		So do you think there'd be a place for somebody like yourself?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, Lord, I certainly would like to believe there'd be a place for someone like myself.
		This was certainly, as you know, one of the reasons that I wanted to come on your show and visit with your listeners.
		Quite frankly, I believe you probably have the most intelligent radio listeners in the country.
		And I feel that you would give me an opportunity to certainly come ahead and explain the reasoning behind why I feel this economy is in trouble.
		And you've done that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		All right.
		Let's see how they react.
		We've got lots of them who want to talk to you.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Joseph Meyer.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hello.
		Yeah.
		I had a question, but first a statement about what he was saying earlier about the oil.
		I think he's dead on there.
		I was listening to, I'm not sure if he's familiar with Michael Parenti.
		He's one of those Yale professor types.
		And he has a book out called The Arrogance of Empire.
		And he was talking about how the need for this oil as it's running out comes through.
		And all these arguments we had for the war with weapons of mass destruction.
		And that wasn't enough.
		It was just that he was a bad guy.
		Well, we have Azerbaijan where you have a joke of an election and where they boil their political dissenters.
		Yet, how do we reward them?
		We give them $50 million for their pipeline.
		But I just think that was, he brings out that point very strongly in that even if it costs more than we get out of it, it's a certain set of people that are getting that money.
		So they'll spend as much of the taxpayers' money as they need to make their profit.
		I guess my question comes down to more of if he feels that with the disparity in wages between the different countries, Is it ultimately a point where we just have to get on equal, bring those other countries up to equal wages before we eventually see that?
		Or is it just something that we're just going to keep losing and taking these lower wages?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's a really good question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, Joseph, does all this not become equal until they're making as much in Mexico and Beijing as they do in Detroit?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's an excellent question, and I think the answer to that is, as you know, with the foreign aid that's been spent for many, many years, we tried to bring a lot of these undeveloped countries up to our standard, and we failed miserably.
		I think what happened is we've basically turned now the economic base of this country into a third world country.
		So we're on the same parallel with them, I think, labor-wise.
		At least that's my view of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Wild card line, you're on the air with Joseph Meyer.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
		How are you doing?
		I like that song, but his voice was a little bit low behind the music.
		He said a little higher the voice and lower the music.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it was not so here, you see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But between myself and you, there would be a great deal of expansion and compression in the audio done by radio stations.
unidentified		Even on the phone, even on the phone line, huh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you wouldn't think you would hear it as much there, but I could hear it quite clearly.
unidentified		Hi, Joseph.
		Glad to talk to you.
		I have a cold, so bear with me.
		I have a comment and a couple quick questions for you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oil.
unidentified		Oil situation.
		There was a guest on another show, Art.
		I hope you'll have him on.
		I can only say his first name.
		You don't want last names, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it a public figure?
unidentified		Oh, yes, he's a public figure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, sure.
		I don't care.
		Give his name.
unidentified		Brian LaPelle.
		He started a recycling plant in Philadelphia, and he makes oil from water and trash.
		And he showed on the Science Channel.
		And I said, Art Bell's got to get this guy on.
		I think we can pull out of there, and we can start making our oil over here.
		They would be so busy figuring out what they're going to do, they would stop their fighting.
		And he's got two plants, one in think Wilkesbury or Harrisburg, and one in Pittsburgh.
		And then the other question is on this NAPDA thing and GAP.
		I think that was a disgrace that we did because Seeds of Fire, he's a public figure, Gordon Thomas, I don't know whether you've heard of him, Art, there's a book out called China Behind the Attack on America.
		I think eventually the Chinese, foreign countries are going to want to take this country over.
		I've heard that they had a Chinese general on another show, but it was like an alternative radio, and you can't always get it.
		And he says, those people want to take over this country.
		We can't change the Middle East.
		I'd like your comments.
		I think we have to start taking care of our own.
		I am so glad Ted Koppel did what he did the other night, Art.
		I am proud of him for what he did.
		I don't care what people say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, sir.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much.
		So I take it you agree with that with regard to taking care of our own?
		Absolutely.
		And you would have it done, as I understand it, through basically taxation of things produced overseas.
		That would be a very delicate thing to bring on board and to reach some sort of equilibrium without upsetting the whole apple cart, wouldn't it?
		That's for sure.
		How do you rate the Fed's handling of the economy over the last decade or so?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, we've had more liquidity, I think, or it pumped into this economy than at any time in our history.
		And I think when you take a look at the popping of the stock market bubble that we had in early 2000, if the Fed didn't come ahead and put the liquidity certainly into the economy, stock prices would have certainly fallen much more significantly.
		But more importantly, the rally we've had after 9-11 has been, in my humble opinion, a liquidity momentum-driven rally.
		I think when you take a look at the underpinnings and the fundamentals behind the propelling of this market higher, I think it certainly leaves a lot to be questioned why stock prices are significantly higher when we've not seen, I think, a real significant improvement in operating earnings of these companies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very good point.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Joseph Meyer.
		Hello.
unidentified		Oh, hello.
unidentified		Is that me?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's you.
unidentified		Oh, hi, Art.
		Hi, Joseph.
		So glad to talk with you.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		Thank you.
unidentified		I was wondering, do you think there's any chance of a stock market crash?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think the market here, quite frankly, is very overvalued.
		And I think if you take a look at any historic valuation that you would put to this market, I think where we are now, we're probably locked in to a trading range somewhere between $10,000 on the low end and probably the upper limits of the range $10,750 to $10,800.
		But I think if the market were to break $10,000 on a closing basis, you really don't have good support in this market till about $7,500 in the Dow.
		But longer term, again, people have a short memory.
		Going back to 1980, and you probably remember this, one ounce of gold bought the Dow.
		The Dow was $8.50, and one ounce of gold was $850,000.
		And I believe before this bear market runs its course, and I think this is a secular bear market, and I think it is a supercycle bear market, and I don't think we make the bottom in this market till 2014, 2015.
		And again, I strongly believe that one ounce of gold will buy the Dow.
		And I believe we'll see 3,000 an ounce gold and a 3,000 Dow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good Lord.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you think that could happen by?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think once we get past the election, Art, and I think, quite frankly, the Fed stops pumping money into the economy.
		We've had more liquidity come into this market than ever before.
		Again, going back, as I'm sure you recall, Nixon closed the gold window in 1971 when the French were trying to convert dollars into gold when we were running the printing presses to try to pay for Vietnam.
		So I think we are getting to the point where the Fed just cannot keep running the printing presses because eventually we are going to see hyperinflation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And all of this could manifest over what period of time?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think once we get past the election, no matter who would be in the White House, I think we are looking at these corporations, as I said earlier, having difficulty turning a profit.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		I think the real problems, if we start to see worldwide interest rates go up, I think this bond market and stock market could be setting up for a nasty fall.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Joseph Meyer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Is that West of the Rockies?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's you, all right.
unidentified		Okay, we're all going to hell in a handbasket, I think.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sounds that way.
unidentified		It's just too much information for me.
		I'm so skeptical.
		I don't know.
		When you're coming about the truth, I just say where there's smoke, there's fire.
		I mean, I called, I'm concerned about how I just don't even know how to begin to buy gold or silver.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
		Well, that's a good question, actually, in itself.
		If you're going to, for example, buy gold, Joseph, would it make sense to actually buy gold coins, to buy gold bullion, or buy gold stocks?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		I think it would be a combination of all of those.
		And I think, Art, quite frankly, it would be prudent to have 10% of a portfolio in the precious metals.
		I think it would be equally prudent to have a minimum of one year's living expenses in a savings account.
		I know that's probably impossible for a lot of people, but we very well could be looking at 12 to 24 months as some pretty difficult times.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		All right.
		Here's somebody in L.A. who says, you know, he, meaning you, you're crazy.
		I just refinanced the mortgage on my $5bedroom million-dollar house here in L.A. at 625% on $160,000 balance.
		My payment is $1,269 on a 15-year term.
		My daughter, on the other hand, rents a tiny two-bedroom house with a crooked floor and no screens for $2,000 a month.
		So you were talking about selling homes and going out and renting.
		This person is saying, well, the rental market isn't so hot here either, or maybe it's worse.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, he's absolutely right.
		We have not seen rental prices pull back, Art, and these landlords are still getting very high rents from these prospective tenants.
		But if I'm right on the economy and the economy continues to weaken, we're going to see these landlords having trouble collecting the rent that they're currently asking because people are just going to not be able to have that disposable income to pay the rent.
		Now, getting back to this gentleman with this home in California, I realize that this is the strongest market in the country.
		I realize he has significant equity in the home.
		But I think you've got to prepare and you've got to think of the day when these homes stop appreciating.
		And when they start to go down, I think because they're so inflated, they could fall an awful lot.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's an awful lot of people who want to know when that plateau is likely to be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Want to put your neck out and forecast that at all?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think as overheated as housing is, and people have said to me, you know, these prices are not that high, and I've said to them, well, I'll tell you, we may not be seeing the top, but this is sure as hell, not the bottom.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Joseph, what do you say?
		And this is going to be a hard one for you.
		You and I both agreed a little earlier that what keeps everything afloat is confidence.
		Confidence by people in foreign countries who buy our debt, confidence by the American consumer.
		Confidence all the way around is the key word.
		So when Joseph Meyer goes on the air in front of millions and undermines, albeit with what I believe to be the truth, but undermines confidence.
		It could be a self-fulfilling prophecy.
		There are those who would say that, Joseph.
		Just as when a president marches out and says the underlying economy is sound, that tends or they hope it to be a self-fulfilling prophecy.
		So how do you address that?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think you're absolutely right in your analysis.
		I think people have confidence, and the confidence is that they can continue to borrow.
		We're seeing people continuing to take equity out of a home, continuing to refinance.
		Until we see rates move up significantly, and I would say, Art, that's probably going to be when we get these mortgages up another three-quarters or 1%.
		I think if we see that, this real estate market is going to be setting itself up for a nasty fall.
		But we're not there yet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, again, what would you watch for to know when we're about to get there?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think one of the things you would watch for is for continued weakness in the U.S. dollar.
		And I think you would look at the other currencies around the world and see relative to the dollar if they're strengthening.
		As you know, the strongest currencies have been the Canadian dollar, the New Zealand dollar, the Australian dollar.
		So I think that would certainly give you a tip off along with watching what happens in the metals.
		We've had a pretty nasty setback in the metals in the last couple of weeks, but I still believe we're in a bull market in the precious metals, and this correction end or pullback is an excellent opportunity if you don't own the metals to step up and start buying.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gotcha.
		International line, you're on the air with Joseph Meyer.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yeah, good evening, Arden.
		Joe.
		You know, Joe, I've been doing econometric modeling for many years.
		I don't want to say how many, but too many years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where'd he go?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You still there?
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sorry, something happened.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead.
unidentified		Yeah, no, I just don't know if you heard what I said, Joe, but I've been going back doing econometric modeling for many years, back in the 70s.
		And one of the things that's really striking me this time through as I go through the numbers is your CPI in the United States.
		It doesn't make any sense.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		No, it doesn't.
unidentified		There's no rhyme or reason in terms of looking at the numbers, and I've got the Fed stats right up in front of me here as I'm talking to you on the Internet.
		Yes.
		Now, I'm also in Alberta.
		We're the energy capital of North America.
		We've got all kinds of oil exploration that's going on here.
		And what I'm seeing up here doesn't relate into the numbers either.
		And any type of modeling you try to do now, you can't go by it.
		And we're so, I guess, dependent on information and data.
		But you start running these things, and it shows clearly to me that there's something behind all this stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Basically, you're saying you can't model because the numbers are cooked?
unidentified		It seems that way.
unidentified		I know you're coming on that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Joseph?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think the information we're getting is certainly not accurate.
		And I think a lot of people like yourself who have been around a long time and have used technical and fundamental analysis and models are taking a look at the statistics that we're being given.
		And when you put them into the model, it doesn't add up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so again, simplifying it, thank you, Caller.
		The numbers are cooked.
		Is that the case, Joseph?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, I wouldn't go as far as to say they're cooked, but I have to question the validity of some of these statistics we're getting.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		I think one of the most important statistics, and I think you'll agree with me, are these unemployment numbers?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's exactly where I was going to go, Joseph.
		You know, I don't know that cooked is an inappropriate term.
		If you stop listing those who have given up looking for work as part of those who are unemployed, we've got unemployment over 10 percent.
		That's cooking, you know.
		That's cooking.
		That's cooking the numbers.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, the last time around, Art, you probably remember this, when we had that recession with President Reagan in 1983 and 1984, and we had very significant unemployment, and we knew it was a lot higher than they were reporting.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		But what we found out later is they were actually calculating the military as part of being employed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, I heard that.
		And that's consistent with the finest cooking show that you could see on TV.
		I mean, that's the Iron Chef at his best.
		From the high desert in the middle of the night, I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		Find out more about tonight's guest.
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art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you search the internet, you can find all kinds of things, crazy things.
		For example, there's a, oh, 10 years now, there's been a rumor going around on the internet that Warren Buffett is my uncle.
		That's right, that Warren Buffett's my uncle.
		Well, in a moment, we'll ask a question about Uncle Warren.
unidentified		Uncle Warren.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Joseph, are you there?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I am.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, in fact, Warren Buffett right now is said to be Uncle Warren, to be betting against the U.S. dollar.
		Actually, putting a lot of money against, betting against the U.S. dollar.
		Is that true?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Warren Buffett, as you know, Art, is one of the most successful investors of all time.
		He has been short the dollar now for a considerable period.
		He's also sitting on about $35 billion in cash.
		So this is somebody who has built a tremendous cash hoard that certainly thinks he can put that money to work at much lower prices in the equity markets worldwide.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I've not heard any news about Warren filing bankruptcy.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So he's doing all right betting against the U.S. dollar.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		He's betting against the U.S. dollar, and I also believe he has a very sizable position in silvo.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
		You know, I'd heard that somewhere, too.
		Interesting.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Joseph Meyer.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yes, I'm calling from Galveston, Texas.
unidentified		And I just wanted to say thank you for having Joseph Meyer on your show tonight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're very welcome.
unidentified		He has opened my eyes to a lot of things.
		And I've been very paranoid over the past six months or so about the economic situation of the United States and of myself.
		And all my friends just laugh at Me and go on buying their SUVs and their homes at their low interest rates.
		And I just want to say thank you for bringing this information out and letting more people know about this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're very welcome and take care.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So just a big thank you, I guess, Joseph.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Very kind of that caller to certainly call us and let us know her thoughts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It really does not sound like you have any agenda in the dissemination of all this information that I can detect.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't have any agenda.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, obviously so.
		Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Joseph Meyer.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Yeah, hi.
		So glad to have you on.
		I repeat what the other caller said.
		It's wonderful.
		I'd just like to ask, well, two questions.
		First of all, if Warren Buffett has a lot of cash, he's shorting the dollar.
		How can the rest of us have cash if we don't have the dollar?
		And also, I'd like to repeat something that I heard on either ABC or NBC News.
		There was this gentleman, an employer.
		He employed people as computer programmers, and he did not want to go overseas.
		He wanted to help the American economy, but he couldn't afford to pay what they usually pay Americans for being computer programmers.
		So his solution was simply to pay people in the United States what he would have paid overseas.
		So instead of paying $80,000 a year, he paid $20,000 a year.
		And many, many Americans just filled up those jobs.
		And I think that's the same thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold on a second.
		That's extremely interesting.
		Could that be the way it unfolds, Joseph, that people just say, as that man did, look, I just can't do it.
		Here is all I can pay.
		Here's what I can afford.
		Here's the same amount of money I'd pay in Malaysia or something.
		Take the job or leave it.
		And people are at such a stage now where they're taking it.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think the answer to that is simply good paying jobs are very scarce.
		I think we all know that.
		And if you lose a good paying job, there's a possibility you could be unemployed for as long as a year.
		And even if you do find a comparable position, it's probably only going to pay half of what you were earning before.
		So I think you have people, they've been unemployed now for a period of time.
		They've exhausted their unemployment benefits.
		And I think they're basically going back to work just to bring in some food and put it on the table.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So that's a yes, ma'am.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And the first part of the question about the cash and Warren Buffett?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think Warren Buffett, as I said, is a very astute investor.
		And I think he has his eye on certain companies that he would like to buy, certainly at much more reasonable levels.
		He is short the dollar, but he is long the other foreign currencies that I had mentioned earlier.
		I believe he's long the Canadian dollar, New Zealand dollar, Australian dollar.
		So he's hedging his bet, Art, by being short the dollar and long these stronger currencies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, a year and a half ago, Joseph, I had some friends who were thinking of selling and moving to Vancouver.
		Vancouver was a, boy, I'll tell you what, it was a very attractive prospect, certainly at that point.
		But then the dollar began to weaken severely against the Canadian dollar, and all of a sudden they're not as anxious to go.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And is that going to get worse before it gets better?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		I think it is going to get worse before it gets better.
		I think a lot of people who've retired are really questioning their ability to stay retired.
		I think, quite frankly, Art, we're going to have an awful lot of retirees going back into the workforce.
		You know, one of the things with Social Security, which I'd like to touch on briefly, by all means, we should have hit that earlier, Social Security.
		You know, going back when Social Security was formed in the early 1930s, we had roughly 75 people paying in for every one drawing down benefits.
		We currently have three paying in for every one drawing down benefits.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My gosh.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		So we're going to reach a point with Social Security, I think, sooner than later where we're going to see drastically reduced benefits.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Couple that with what's going on with health care, those two things are enough to scare me by themselves.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Joseph, kind of an off-the-wall question for you, but somebody enjoying a nice, medium, well-to-do lifestyle these days, how much money should they, assuming they've paid off everything and they're okay, how much money should somebody have socked away to comfortably retire in their late 50s or early 60s?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, Art, they came out and they said a couple of years ago that if you were earning $200,000 while you were gainfully employed, you were probably going to need a couple of million dollars to continue to give you that lifestyle.
		I know when I first entered Wall Street and I had a dream of making $1 million and I thought that was all the money in the world.
		But you can't retire today on $1 million with interest rates as low as they are and maintain any semblance of a decent lifestyle.
		You need several million dollars.
		Now, I don't believe interest rates will stay down forever.
		And as you and I agree, they're going to go up and probably sooner than most people would want to believe.
		And they're probably going to go higher than anyone could believe.
		But you've got to have more money than ever before to maintain your lifestyle.
		The cost of living is going up now so quickly.
		Retirees living on a little pension and Social Security, folks, you're just not going to make it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So then I guess you would advise people to be liquid, which you have to have cash, and then just to wait for the appropriate interest rate moment and then retire.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think, as you'll agree, we've seen an awful lot of money come out of the banks and go into the stock markets.
		We've seen a lot of money come out of the banks and go into real estate.
		I think we will see that trend change as interest rates start to go back up.
		I think people are going to start to take money out of the stock and bond market.
		I think people are going to sell this speculative real estate.
		And I'm not talking about primarily your home or your residence, but I'm talking about the summer home.
		I'm talking about the rental property.
		I think people are going to put them up for sale, and they're going to take that money and put it back in the bank.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Joseph Meyer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		This is Douglas in Cedar Rapids, Iowa.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Welcome.
unidentified		WMT 600.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Way to go.
unidentified		I wanted to ask Joseph about worldwide production of gold and silver.
		I ran across an article in National Geographic several years back, and they talked about Kenneth Twitchell and how in 1931 he had recovered some 60 tons of gold in a mine that was in between Mecca and Medina in Saudi Arabia.
		And to me, it just seems like the world is awash in gold and silver, and I didn't know what kind of consumption there was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, let's find out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Joseph, what about the production of gold and silver, since they're going to be such hot commodities in the near future?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, I can tell you, going back in 1945, Art, the U.S. had gold reserves of approximately 22,000 tons.
		We currently have about 8,000 tons.
		So we've sold a lot of gold.
		We came off the gold standard.
		As you know, Roosevelt basically came ahead in the 30s and he confiscated all gold at $20.70 an ounce.
		And once he confiscated it, he immediately pegged it at $35.
		And gold was pegged at $35 right through in 1971 when President Nixon took us off the gold standard.
		Right after that, we slowly started to see gold move up.
		In 1976, it was the first time we had gold trade over $100 an ounce.
		And then as we started to see the inflationary pressures from what the money was being put into circulation to pay for Vietnam, we started to see gold move significantly higher.
		I think there is probably more gold out there and more be in mind that we'd like to believe.
		But I think when you talk about silver, silver being an industrial metal with industrial applications, I think there's shortages of silver.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Does silver have as much industrial application as it once did?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, photography, traditional photography, has utilized silver, I believe.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And all of that is in the middle of a sea change with the world converting to digital photography.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're absolutely right about photography.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		As you know, silver has always had a very pronounced application in automotive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		And we're going to continue to see that.
		But when you look at what production has come forth in the last five years as far as silver production, we're first starting to see these mines now really produce.
		And I think the reason for that, Art, quite frankly, is silver had been down for so many years.
		And we're finally now seeing silver.
		The 200-day moving average is $5.13 an ounce.
		The 50-day moving average is only $5.87.
		Silver closed yesterday at $6.05.
		So I think silver will consolidate between $5 and $6 an ounce.
		But I think the next time we go up, we did get to $8.50.
		I think we're going right to $10 in silver.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
		What, sort of a layman's question, but it's one that someone asked, and I don't think I'm going to get to him.
		What makes gold so valuable and such a long last I mean, virtually since the time of Christ, gold has been the valued, sought-after thing.
		And what keeps it that way?
		Why hasn't it been replaced by some other rare commodity?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Because only gold or it is real money.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it's just simply always been real money.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		And that's the reason why.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And there's no prospect that could change, that there could be a new coin of the realm.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't think there'll ever be anything that will take the place of gold.
		The biggest purchases of gold, and you probably know this, are India and China.
		They're buying now gold very heavily.
		In fact, we've seen India's imports of gold and silver go up 42 percent in eight months.
unidentified		Wow.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		So Southeast Asia are very big buyers of the precious metals.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		In fact, I've been told in China that the average worker tries to set aside enough money to buy an ounce of gold every time he has disposable funds.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you guys listening to this?
		West of the Rockies.
		You're on there with Joseph Meyer.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hey, is it me?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is you.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		I'm Nancy in Phoenix.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Nancy.
unidentified		I'm really enjoying this, Joseph.
		And I don't pretend to understand too much about the stock market.
		I had a son that, oh, let's see, he had a Series 7 license broker for, and they, Charles Swab company here in Phoenix, laid off just about everybody.
		I guess the stock industry is suffering as well.
		And my question was originally just, I mean, I'm living on disability.
		That's $5.25 a month, if you can imagine.
		I can't imagine it getting any lower, and it just seems like it would just be starving people out, but maybe that's what they intend to do.
		I don't know.
		But I was wondering about boycotting overseas products if they don't.
		I don't know where to get the political will to get these companies to keep our industries here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so your question is whether it would be realistic or possible or effective even to boycott foreign products.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Joseph?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, I certainly think it's an idea worthy of consideration.
		Quite frankly, Art, I've never seen a worse job market for newly graduated college students.
		I mean, this is the worst job market I've ever seen in my career.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I was brought up, I was born in 45 and 58 or so.
		I was starting to think about that sort of thing.
		And Jeep, then, you know, Joseph, college education, that was a key.
		It was an automatic job.
		I mean, you just automatically had a good, middle-class, sustainable job.
		That could not be further from the truth today, could it?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, as you know, Art, people work for the same company till the day they retired at 65.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		They put in 35 or 40 years with the same employer.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Nobody moved around and changed jobs in the 50s and 60s.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		And they say today, with the career of corporate executives and Wall Street executives, that most times these guys don't spend any more than three and probably at a maximum five years in any one given job with any one given employer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Quite true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So the prospects for today's graduates, today's job seekers, pretty bleak.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		I think it's very bleak unless you certainly have the skills to be an entrepreneur.
		I don't know where you take the education that you've certainly spent a great deal of money for.
		If we're talking about engineers or we're talking about MBAs, I don't know where you go and earn the kind of money necessary to repay that student loan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So the ones most likely to make it then are the ones who have an idea, who are entrepreneurs, and that they're going to get out there and start their own business or go off trading with a Chinese company.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, they're the ones that are going to make it, right?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		I'm afraid to have to say that's the way I see it right now unless it changes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then we've trained a lot of young people for the wrong thing.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		We've trained an awful lot of young people for the wrong thing, and I can't tell you when this economy and this job market would turn around to gamefully employ these people.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		It could be years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a pretty bleak picture, and we're about out of time, but it has been such a pleasure to have you on the air, and I just know its truth when I hear it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's not a message that's going to be very popular, Joseph, but I really admire you for telling it.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Well, Art, I thank you for the opportunity to appear with you and certainly be able to speak to your listening audience.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		And hopefully, I've been able to give them some information that they were not aware of and that they can take that information and hopefully make their lives better.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They can follow up on your website, can't they?
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Yes, they can.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Joseph Meyer, thank you for being here.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		Thank you so much for having me.
joe meyer in florida ▲ ● ▼		It's been a pleasure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And we will have you back.
		Depend on that.
		Joseph Meyer, tomorrow night, the author of Adam's Curse.
		You're not going to want to miss that, believe me.
		From the high desert in the middle of the night, I'm Art Bell.
		Right in the middle of the weekend.
		You all have a good night.

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