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Dec. 27, 2003 - Art Bell

02:52:39

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Space Programs - Professor James McCanney

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01:12:00

james mccanney

59:35

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Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		Hi, Desert and I'm your American Southwest.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Happy New York, good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be across cosmos and all the time zones involved.
		Here begins the weekend version of Post to Post AM.
		I'm Mark Bell happy to be here.
		Hopefully, George Cook is time travel trip that is back.
		We'll find out if there are any news on that score, or is it the beat on the item?
		I'm all confused on the point.
		Anyway.
		A reminder.
		Big, big, reminder.
		Beginning tomorrow night.
		Beginning of the program tomorrow night.
		We're gonna take predictions for the year 2004 now.
		This is uh actually it's gonna be two nights of complete open line.
		It's gonna be tomorrow night and Wednesday night.
		My predictions are numbered.
		I will assign a number to each predictions.
		Each prediction of it.
		And you will not be allowed to make predictions incidentally by email, facts, even in person.
		I've had people try to stop me in person and record a prediction.
		We don't do it that way.
		All predictions are taken on the air.
		So there can be no question.
		The archives are imprinted.
		The predictions were made.
		There is no fudging.
		Later, each one assigned a number, and then a year later we look at them.
		And the difference this year is I want quality predictions.
		Now, how do we get quality predictions?
		It's all dependent on you.
		Beginning tomorrow night, between now and tomorrow night, at the very least, you must set aside a little bit of time and sort of allow your brain to go quiet and try really hard to think of a major event that will occur to a country, a person, the world, whatever, in the year 2004.
		Now, we took predictions last year, which I will slowly reveal.
		We didn't really take that many.
		Batting average, actually not as bad as I originally thought when I looked at them.
		Not quite as bad as I thought.
		But I want this year's average to go up.
		So that means spend a little time with it.
		Don't just dial.
		You know, really, really try.
		Predictions can be made by average people, as I'm going to fill you in with regard to a story I've got tonight in kind of a bone-chilling manner here in a moment.
		So you can do it.
		It just requires a little concentration.
		So really think this one through.
		Go into kind of the best trance state that you can muster up.
		And beginning tomorrow night, we will take a number for posterity and the following year's list, your predictions.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let us take a quick look at world news.
		In the biggest rebel attack since Saddam Hussein's capture, suicide bombers and assailants with mortars and grenade launchers blasted coalition military bases and the governor's office in this southern city Saturday, Karbala, killing 13, wounding at least 172.
		The death toll in Karbala included six coalition soldiers, four Bulgarians, two Thais, six Iraqi police officers, and one civilian.
		Pretty bad news.
		There are charges coming from various quarters that the good news, whatever that is, is not making it out of Iraq.
		That just the bad news, and I'm sure that's true.
		I mean, people don't report on buildings that are not blown up.
		They report on ones that are blown up.
		It's much like our news here, I suppose, and that is mostly bad.
		That's what makes it into the news.
		Investigators tentatively traced the first U.S. cow with mad cow disease to Canada, which might help determine the scope of the outbreak, might even limit the economic damage to the American beef industry.
		In addition, some calves have a quarantined herd of 400 that included a male offspring of the particular sick cow.
		That cow likely will be euthanized.
		The herd was at a farm in Sunnyside, Washington, which officials refused to name, I would presume for their sake.
		Now, I told you that occasionally predictions could be made.
		The news coming from Iran is really bad.
		Really, really bad.
		Kerman, Iran, or is it Kerman?
		Entire blocks of buildings lay crushed and survivors lined up blanket-wrapped bodies in the street after a devastating earthquake leveled nearly three-quarters of the Iranian city of Bam on Friday, killing at least 5,000 people, and they really don't know how many yet, and injuring 30,000 others.
		The numbers could be much higher.
		The quake also destroyed much of Bam's historic landmark, a giant medieval fortress complex of towers, domes, and walls, all made of mud, brick, and so forth, overlooking a walled old city, parts of which date back 2,000 years.
		Television images showed the highest part of the fort, including its distinctive square tower, crumbled like a sand castle down the side of the hill, though some walls still stood.
		Local officials said the death toll could reach up to 12,000.
		Though the deputy governor of the province said an accurate count was impossible, with many victims obviously still trapped under the rubble.
		Rescue operations are going slowly because of the darkness.
		This Story was written by an Associated Press reporter, by the way.
		The disaster is far too huge for us to meet all of our needs, according to the president, but all institutions have been mobilized.
		They're getting international aid.
		The temperature there falling to 21 degrees, so survivors are huddling pretty much by campfires next to their destroyed homes.
		At Baum's only cemetery, a crowd of about 1,000 people wailed and beat their chests and heads over some 500 corpses that lay on the ground as a bulldozer dug a trench for mass graves.
		One man in his 30s said, quote, this is the apocalypse.
		There's nothing but devastation and debris.
		And then the Associated Press goes on to quote the body of this man who had the body of his daughter in his hands.
		And the Associated Press reporter says, quoting him, quote, last night before she, his daughter, went to sleep, she made me a drawing and kissed me four times, he said of his daughter, Nazanin, whose body he held in his arms.
		When I asked why four kisses, she said, maybe I won't see you again, Papa.
		Karimi told the Associated Press photographer as tears streamed down his face.
		So you see, clearly his daughter may have had a premonition of the horrid earthquake that was about to occur in Iran and that she may never see her father again.
		She didn't know, I guess, that it would be because she was dead.
		I just thought that absolutely worthy of a sort of re-quoting.
		It obviously impressed deeply the Associated Press reporter who wrote this story, and it impresses me as well.
		The following from Whitley Strieber's unknown country, earthquakes, like the recent ones in California and Iran, affect everyone on Earth, according to a geologist named Ross Stein.
		He says, you may not be able to feel them, but the entire planet is rung like a bell.
		Mountains have probably been pushed up about a foot or so by the California earthquake.
		That's mountains everywhere, I guess he means.
		Eventually quakes in California, he says, will carve Mexico's Baja Peninsula off from the rest of Mexico.
		Peter Anderson quotes Ross as saying, quote, for an earthquake this size, every single sand grain on the planet dances to the music of those seismic waves.
		There's a 5 to 10% chance that the recent quake will lead to the big one that Californians dread.
		Seismologist Susan Howe says the crust is getting mangled over a zone.
		As the plates move, they are sort of grinding California into ribbons.
		And Iran is like California, in that there are minor tremors there nearly daily.
		The latest earthquake in Iran measured 6.7.
		So why were so many more people killed there than in California 6.5?
		Well, one reason, the California quake hit, of course, in a small town, while the epicenter of the Iran quake was centered on a highly populated city.
		And we all know the other reason.
		They make buildings of mud and brick.
		And in California, we lost only one building, which was not up to California current earthquake standards.
		Well, you know, the saucer that we suddenly discovered last week, which was an apparent relic of some member of the subgenius culture that had built it there for whatever reason, really was there, really was a saucer, but it really was identified.
		Not all of them are.
		There are many UFO photos that have never been debunked or explained and continue to thoroughly baffle researchers.
		Incredible black and white photos of a UFO taken in 1950 by Oregon farmer Paul Trent, for example.
		His wife and father-in-law saw the craft as well.
		Wilson quotes researcher Jeremy Clark as saying, if authentic, they comprise significant evidence for the reality of intelligently controlled UFOs.
		In 1958, 47 crew members on board a Brazilian ship, that's 47 people, folks, saw a UFO and photographer Amiro Baruna took pictures of it.
		What did they show?
	A disk about 50 feet in diameter moving at about 600 miles an hour.
	Clark says, given the number of witnesses, the results of photoanalysis, both military and civilian, and the need for debunkers to reinvent the incident to, quote, explain it, end quote, away, it's most unlikely that the photographs were hoaxed in any way at all.
	In Zanesville, Ohio, in 1966, Ralph Ditter took UFO photos of sightings that were made by law enforcement deputies Robert Schultz and Stanley Nepala, I believe it is.
	These Polaroids, and they are Polaroids, so far there's absolutely no possibility that anybody tampered with the negatives at all.
	And the list goes on and on and on.
	I could read you so many reports that simply have no answer whatsoever.
	Physicist Freeman Dyson, this is a very interesting story because in a way it's going to thoroughly point toward the guest we're going to have tonight, James McCanney.
	Oh, what a conversation that is going to be tonight.
	Physicist Freeman Dyson says that our scheme of Mars missions is excellent, but it has One fatal flaw: the fact that you are expecting NASA to do it.
	NASA has become timid after their recent shuttle disaster, but private companies are apparently willing to take over the task.
	Sir Martin Rees, the British royal astronomer, thinks rich CEOs like Amazon.com's Jeff Bezos is it will finance trips to the moon and Mars in the future, with NASA playing a supportive role.
	On Space.com, Robert Roy Britt quotes him as saying, I think the future of manned spaceflight will only brighten if it's done by people prepared to cut costs, take risks in a fashion that's seemingly unacceptable to the U.S. public in a NASA project.
	Bezos is rumored to have put together a team of experts to build a $30 million reusable spacecraft.
	PayPal CEO, Ellen Musk, started a new company called SpaceX, which will send its reusable Falcon rocket into space next year, carrying a Department of Defense satellite.
	Isn't that interesting?
	Ari says, if humans venture back to the moon and even beyond, they may carry commercial insignia rather than national flags.
	So the little patch could, I don't know, might say Coca-Cola or something, huh?
	Does it seem likely to you?
	Perhaps the pioneer settlers in space communities will live and even die in front of a worldwide audience, the ultimate in commercial reality TV.
	Huh.
	Talk about a reason to have a new reality show.
	The moon.
	Talk about, I don't know, 100 people trapped in a place they can't get away from and having to interact with each other?
	What would they do?
	Eliminate one person a week and shove them out the door?
	Moon.
	Anyway, will space radiation be a problem?
	We'll touch on this tonight for astronauts on a private mission.
	Robert Zubrin says a New York Times article by Matthew Wald grossly overestimated the danger.
	Wald wrote, and this is very interesting.
	The astronauts who went to the moon on Apollo 14 accumulated about 1,400, or make that 1,140 milligram, the equivalent of about three years on Earth in their nine-day mission.
	The astronauts on Skylab 4, who spent 87 days in low Earth orbit, received a dose of about 17,800 milligram, equivalent to a 50-year background dose here on Earth.
	That dose was near the threshold of radiation exposure that produces clinically measurable symptoms.
	Longer-term effects like increases in cancer rates have not been observed in adults exposed to doses at that level, but experts presume the effect does exist.
	By comparison, nuclear power plant workers are limited by law to exposures no greater than 5,000 milligram a year.
	In this country, they are generally held below 2,000.
	A round trip to Mars would be of a different order of magnitude.
	Indeed, Brookhaven puts the exposure at 130,000 milligram over two and a half years.
	That would be equivalent to almost 400 years of natural exposure.
	Now, there are some people who claim, as you know, that we never went to the moon.
	A Wayne Green, for example.
	And if I read correctly tonight, with regard to James McCanney, he too believes we did not go.
	Anyway, we'll get into that, and that's really a whopper in the next hour.
	That and a lot of other things.
	I know he wants to talk a lot about private efforts in space, and so I thought this article would fit right in.
	At any rate, if you would like to do some open lines, that's what I'm up for.
	And again, reminding you that beginning tomorrow night, tomorrow night, ladies and gentlemen, we take predictions, official numbered predictions for the year 2004.
	And we will do that tomorrow night and Wednesday night, the last day of the year.
	West of the Rockies, you are on the air.
	Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		How are you doing tonight?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm just fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How are you?
unidentified		Good, good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And where are you?
unidentified		I'm calling from La Quinta, California.
		All right.
		You had Richard on last night.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		And he was talking about Martin.
unidentified		I always found it interesting how he never brings up the Soviet mission that they did back in 89, the Forbes 1 and Forbes 2.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		Yes, and there was a lot of...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's right.
		I've seen that footage, and it's very impressive to me.
		Now, as you know, last night, Richard and I just rocked and rolled the whole time about various aspects of all this.
		I am in basic agreement with him regarding the fact that I really do believe, I have come to believe, with some certainty, that there was at one time life on Mars.
		Beyond that, and with regard to so much of what Richard has to say about NASA and the cabal and all the rest of it, I don't know.
		I'm not so sure about that.
		I am, of course, somewhat curious about the two-thirds and climbing number of missions that have failed to the red planet.
		I mean, there is something going on there.
		Maybe it's just really hard.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
		Yes.
		It's a pleasure to talk to you, man.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you, sir, where are you?
unidentified		Shepherdsville, Kentucky.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, what's up?
unidentified		I was going to talk to you about this guy I worked with and just to tell people about the power of speech and how when you say things in your life, it can affect your life.
unidentified		Well, just for instance, I was talking to a guy I worked with and he had a job working downtown and I told him he needed to quit his second job because it was a dangerous place to work.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And he was like, well, what do you mean?
		I was like, well, someone could come in and shoot you and kill you, man.
		He's like, well, I won't let him in.
		I was like, well, what are you going to do if they get in?
		He said, I was going to hold my arm up.
		And I know I can't show you how he was holding his arm up.
		But he held it just right out in front of him.
		He said, let's do it like that.
		If he's got a knife, it'll just catch it right in my arm.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, we have very little time.
unidentified		I'll make it real quick.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What happened to me?
unidentified		A couple weeks later, he let some guy in to use the phone.
		Guy broke a knife out.
		He got 57 stitches right down his arm, right where he held it up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know what, sir?
		It may be that you experienced a pre-cognitive thought about what was going to happen to him.
		Just like that little girl who kissed her dad four times in Iran the other night.
		And he asked her why four kisses.
		And she said, because I may never see you again.
		Clearly, for a little child of, what, four years of age, that's precognitive.
		I'm sure she thankfully didn't know that it was going to be because she wasn't going to be here because of what was about to happen.
		But somehow she knew from somewhere deep inside her core, she knew.
		And she was just a little child, so she blurted it right out.
unidentified		this is close I can give it!
		You can take it!
		Oh, don't you give it to me!
		Conscience I get, if I were walking in your shoes, I wouldn't be wearing a...
		Or you and your friends will warn about me, I haven't lots of fun.
		Counting flowers on the wall, that don't bother me at all.
		Playing solitaire along with the deck of 51.
		Smoking cigarettes and watching Captain Kangaroo, now don't tell me.
		I've nothing to do.
		Last night I dressed in tails pretending I was on the pen.
		Long as I can dream it's hard to slowly swing her back.
		To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
		From west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach ART by calling your in-country sprint access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Those are the numbers.
		We're about to rock right into open lines.
		If anything you've got on your mind is fair game.
		Again, reminding you, tomorrow night and then Wednesday night as well, we take numbered predictions for the year 2004.
unidentified		expectations are very high Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Into the dark of night we plunge.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Who am I calling, and is this me?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know who you're calling, and if it isn't you, then who is it?
unidentified		Got a little nostalgia for you there, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		I'm Larry, and I'm calling from Minnesota.
		Okay.
		Okay, I do not have a prediction tonight, but.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's good because I'm not taking them tonight.
unidentified		But I do have a request.
unidentified		You're not going to make the same mistake you made three years ago again, are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what would that be?
unidentified		You're going to listen to people who have predictions, particularly guests that you have on your show, who can foresee candidates winning elections?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll tell you, I only have one rule with predictions regarding candidates or those already in office.
		And that rule is that you're not allowed to predict their death, their assassination.
		Other than that, if people want to predict their winning or they're losing, that's fine.
		But anything else gets me knocks on my door by guys in dark suits with lumps, you know?
unidentified		I appreciate that.
unidentified		Are you going to say you've never had second thoughts or third thoughts about what happened in 2000 with a couple of your guests predicting Bush coming in and then him slipping in by a hair?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, but that was accurate.
unidentified		Okay, the point is, Art, people in this country have a terrible problem of confusing voting with betting.
unidentified		And they want to jump on the bandwagon of the winner, you know, because for too many people, that's more important for the business.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you think they hear the prediction, and that drives the way people vote, is what you're suggesting, right?
unidentified		You think that that never occurred to you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
		I mean, for example, Sean David Morton comes on the air and says, well, you know, Bush is going to squeak by.
		So people go out and vote for George Bush just because Sean David Morton said that.
		Now, I don't believe that for a second.
unidentified		And if it's true, it's pathetic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So no, I mean, how many of you raise your hands vote for a candidate because someone made a prediction?
		That guy, I saw him.
		That caller there.
		He raised his hand.
		That was it.
		Now, the only ones I don't allow, as I've said, are predictions of assassination.
		That will get you a visit every time, I'm telling you.
		Hi, Mr. Bell.
		We're from the Secret Service.
		And then we have a long talk.
		And I say things like, hey, it's a talk show.
		That was a prediction.
		And they say things like, well, we understand that, but we have to follow up.
		And that's just the way it goes.
		And then they say a lot more.
		And so I don't do that.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hey, yes, all right.
		Yes.
		Yeah, hi.
		Long time listener, long time.
		I enjoy your show quite good.
		I'm listening on AM 1100 out of Cleveland.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir, and you're probably in a vehicle.
unidentified		Yes, I am.
		I'm a truck driver.
		A lot of us enjoy your show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		I was wondering, I've had a thing ever since I was a kid of smelling roses before when people die.
		Really?
		Yes, yes.
		It's kind of strange.
		My grandmother died.
		She was very religious.
		She gave me a rosary.
		Okay, somewhere in the nature of things, I lost a rosary.
		And I've been married a couple times, and both my ex-wives' families know that when I smell roses, people die.
		It's getting to the point, if somebody's sick, they call me and ask me if I smell roses.
		I want to know if you ever heard of anything like that before.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I haven't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And certainly you are now eliminated as the origin of the phrase, wake up and smell the roses.
unidentified		Yeah, it was to the point my present wife, I had told her about this, and we was, you know, we were very newly west, and we was going across an Ohio road in the middle of winter, and I smelled roses, and I told her, when I told her this, I knew she thought it was wormy, you know, but she smells roses too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You didn't tell her you smelled roses all over her, did you?
unidentified		No, no, no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just roses in general.
unidentified		Roses in general.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so what happened?
unidentified		Well, we got home, and then we had a call that a very close cousin of hers had passed away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not.
		Okay, well, I appreciate your call.
		I'm not sure that's a talent that I would want.
		Nor that, well, I suppose people would call you.
		Hey, smell any roses?
		Do I smell like roses?
		I don't know.
		These kinds of things exist all around us.
		Human talents that I suppose we have a sort of a, you know, I don't know, six sense, whatever you want to call it.
		There's been a million different phrases, feminine intuition, truck driver rose smelling, whatever.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
		Hello?
		Going once.
unidentified		Hello?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, hello.
unidentified		Hey, how you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		All right, I'm out of Wilmington, Delaware.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wilmington, Delaware, all right?
unidentified		Yep.
unidentified		It's WDEL 1150.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		And I'm stuck on the midnight to eight shift, so I'd like to thank you for giving me something to listen to other than the commander of music.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		People are not stuck on the midnight to eight shift.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is the preferable shift for those in the middle of the year.
unidentified		Actually, it is.
		It works real good for me.
		I enjoy it, actually.
		But it's even better to have good stuff to listen to, like, you know, the variety of stuff you've been putting out here.
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's welcome.
unidentified		I'd just like to thank you for the new year here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're very welcome, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm looking forward to the new year.
unidentified		Yeah, I am too, actually.
		I think it's going to be pretty interesting.
		I think people need to keep their eyes open.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're the first one, actually, that I've had the chance to ask.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So I will ask you, I'm not asking you for a prediction, but do you think 2004 is going to be a really good year for things, or do you see a shadow hanging above it?
unidentified		You know, I think things are what you make out of it, you know.
		I think generally, I mean, you know, there's, hey, throughout time, there's always been terrible things going on, but, you know, I think that there's a lot of good, too.
		I think people, if they'd maybe dwell a little more on that, maybe things would be a little more positive, that's all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
		All right, so make your own year is what he's saying.
		And I guess, to some degree, I think I agree with that, that to some point you can make your own year.
		Then there are some things that are obviously out of your control.
		Very interesting.
		Make your own year.
		West of the Rockies, you are on air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, this is Alan in Colorado.
		Hey, Alan.
		Love the show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		I've got something for all the moon landing naysayers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, one of them is coming on tonight.
unidentified		Okay.
		Please, please go check out clavius.org after the crater, C-L-A-V-I-U-S.
		And, you know, we're talking about America's greatest achievement.
		And you can go to Johnson or Kennedy Space Center.
		You can see the Saturn V. You can see the Lunar Lander mock-ups.
		I mean, you know, let's not trivialize this.
		This was a great thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I too believe we went to the moon.
		I have listened to the best arguments of the naysayers, although I may get some new ones tonight.
		You never know from James McCanney.
		But I too think we went to the moon, so there you are.
unidentified		Okay, one more thing?
		Yes.
		I'm a believer in what's going on in Area 51, and what's interesting is what do you think is going on?
		Oh, well, mainly as far as the saucers, you know, being there for 50 years, we're still working on them.
		There's a Hungarian company that's working on saucers now, and if we don't get these things out into the commercial sector, somebody else will.
		Somebody else is going to get lunar tourism, and we're just going to miss out on a huge industry if we're not careful.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's the other thing we're going to talk about tonight is private space efforts going to the moon, going to Mars, going into space, not with the help of NASA, or maybe with the help of NASA in the background somewhere, but private people going to space.
		CEOs, people with lots of money, and we've got lots of those In America, and a lot of them are beginning to turn their attention toward the space effort, the private space effort.
		It's an interesting concept.
		On the international line, you are on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hello, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Pleasure to talk to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you, where are you?
unidentified		Yes, I'm in Halifax, Nova Scotia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All the way up to over here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, welcome.
unidentified		Okay, I just have a comment.
		I read something on some astronauts that had circled the moon had noticed that it was lit up like a city.
		And I was just thinking that if the aliens were looking at us, what better spot to control us from?
		Like the moon controls our gravity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, sir, that's the entire idea of a probe that would be put on the moon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Scientists, a lot of them believe that there would be what's called a Van Neumann probe put on the moon to watch what's going on on Earth, and that these probes would be self-replicating, and they would go from moon to moon to moon to moon and plant themselves waiting for the emergence of life.
unidentified		Fascinating.
unidentified		Mind-boggling, isn't it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It certainly would be if we found one, yes.
		ALA 2001.
		Wouldn't that be something?
		Sure.
		It is a reasonable idea.
		It's an Occam's razor kind of thing.
		It would be the obvious thing to do if you wanted to watch Earth and human beings and our progress.
		You would put something on the moon, which would have a pretty dog-on good view and be able to send a signal back to the maker.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
		I are.
		How's it going?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, sir.
unidentified		Where are you?
unidentified		I am in Las Vegas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Las Vegas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		All right.
		I've got a question.
		Last night I listened to another show, and there was a lady on claiming that 40% of the Alzheimer's deaths in this country are contributed to mad cow disease, and they have not detected it.
		And I don't know if you had heard anything about that or not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it certainly is very detectable.
		I think that would be, I wouldn't agree with that figure.
		I can't authoritatively disagree with that figure.
		But, you know, mad cow in human beings is pretty diagnosable as far as I know.
		And now, I don't think I buy it.
		40% of what appears to be Alzheimer's instead mad cow disease of the human form.
		No, I don't buy it.
		Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
		Yeah, Arbelt?
		Yes.
		How you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm doing all right, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		It's Adam in Eugene, Oregon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Adam?
unidentified		Yeah, ever since you've been having all these debates about the moon, I've been going to the library, just renting out videos and books, and I found a lot of interesting stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there is a lot of interesting stuff.
		What are you curious about?
		Whether we really went?
unidentified		I think we did.
		I was watching some video of Apollo 14.
		And did you know that they had the flag so close to the lunar module that when they left the moon, the rocket engines pretty much just blew the flag right over?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think I remember something about that.
unidentified		And then, I don't know, I just don't think that our I just can't imagine anybody like our government or NASA being stupid enough to pull up a hoax knowing that sometime in the future we're going to end up going anyway?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, honestly, I tend to agree with you.
		As I just told an earlier caller, I do.
		I really do think we went to the moon.
		But when you listen to the people who don't think we went to the moon, they make an awfully good case.
		I mean, you know, they put together a lot of facts, which, you know, if you sit and listen to them for a couple hours, it seems plausible.
		But no, I think we went.
		I still think we went.
unidentified		I think we went, too.
		There's just one picture that really bothers me, a big poster that I have.
		And you can see three different shadows going off in three different directions from two different astronauts and a moon car.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm familiar with the photograph you speak of.
unidentified		The Apollo 17?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
		I've seen it.
		I know, but, you know, as NASA would say themselves, a trick of light and shadows.
		If you want to put a case together saying, well, look, we've got James McKenna coming up, and he's going to talk about it, so we'll see why.
		And he's a pretty dog-on-bright guy.
		Let me make sure of that.
		You know, I'm pretty sure that he's got down here that he does not believe that we went to the moon.
		Pretty far down in the list of stuff that we were going to talk about, but it's in here someplace, I think.
		I hope I'm not attributing something to him that is not true.
		But we'll see.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Ert.
		Hi.
		Mr. Jay from Cleveland, Ohio.
		Yes, Jay.
		You know, you're talking about the radiation exposure that the astronauts would be exposed to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I quoted quite a number of pretty interesting numbers, quite a number of them, with regard to those who have gone to space and what they collected in Miller Ms. Yes.
unidentified		Right.
		I was just wondering whether or not lead shielding would be possible.
		You know, like when you go in to get an x-ray, they cover you up with a lead suit, you know, to protect you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's one thing about lead.
unidentified		It's heavy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's real heavy.
		And the cost per pound is just astronomical to get things into space.
		that's our really big problem it costs just like the help I'm not an expert in that area.
		I don't know, but I presume fairly thick.
		I mean, what you get put on you by the dentist or the x-ray tech is pretty heavy, and it's just a little sort of cover over one little party body, right?
		So if you try to cover the interior, even part of the interior of a capsule in something like that, you're talking serious weight.
unidentified		Right.
		One more question.
		When I was a teenager, I used to work at the Cleveland Hopkins Airport, and right next door to us, there was a National Guard, an Army National Guard medevac unit.
		This was back in the 73 or 74.
		And these guys were coming back from their two-week maneuvers, and they were, for all intents and purposes, attacked by a UFO.
		It made the newspapers mad.
		I was just wondering if any of the guys that were involved with that are listening to the show and could call in and give more details on it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if there are, let us collect them in this manner.
		You may contact me by email.
		Very reliable email sources.
		I am artbell at mindspring.com.
		That's A-R-T-E-B-E-L-L all lowercase at mindspring.com or artbell at aol.com.
		Both of those addresses remain current, despite the fact that I've had them so many years now that they are on every spam list in the world.
		That's what happens when you have public email addresses for that period of time.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Hey, Art, how are you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm all right, sir.
unidentified		Where are you?
		All right.
		I'm on what they call the grapevine.
		It's between Bakersfield, California, and Santa Clarita.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ah, yes.
unidentified		It's up the mountain here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've only got about a minute before the end of this hour, so let's run.
unidentified		Okay.
		Well, I've got a quick prediction.
		No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
		Oh, okay.
		Okay.
		I'm sorry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know people get prediction anxiety and they want to stick them out, but no, not till tomorrow night.
unidentified		Well, that's okay.
unidentified		But anyhow, at least I'd like to make a comment on the show that you had when you interviewed John Lear.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You may do that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Go right ahead.
unidentified		Okay, that was a very, very interesting show that night.
		But one thing that got to me was when you asked him, you were talking about, they were talking about, you guys were talking about grades.
		And you asked him whether or not those grades were God.
		If you can remember.
		And he said very kind of cordially like, yes, they are.
		And, you know, I wanted to say to him, I'm a techie, too.
		And I want to say to him what was said on one of my shows on Star Trek is, what do God need with a spaceship?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There we are.
		All right, sir.
		That will have to do, I'm afraid, because we have got to go.
		James McKenney, coming up in a moment.
unidentified		we're going to be talking about americans Welcome to Mars.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Private spacecraft going to the moon and Mars.
		That's what we're going to be talking about from the high desert.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
		I'm Art Feld.
unidentified		Only in America.
		Land of opportunity.
		Put a classy girl like you fall for a poor boy like me.
		We were gonna go all the way and we never had a doubt.
		We were running with the night, laying in the shadows.
		Coming to the night, till the morning light.
		We were running with the night.
		We were running with the night.
		To talk with Art Bell, call the wirecard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Art Bell from East to the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
		From West to the Rockies, call ARC at 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach Art Bell by calling your in-country spread access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what we do here, Play in the Shadows.
		Good morning, everybody.
		This is going to be very interesting.
		Professor James McCanney MS is a physicist who has spent decades promoting his theoretical work showing that the solar system is ever-changing and electrically active.
		These theories have been confirmed with space probe data and proved that there are definite Earth effects resulting from our sun's electrical activity.
		He's openly opposed NASA's view that outer space is electrically neutral.
		McCanney was a faculty member of the Physics and Mathematics Departments at Cornell University, Ithaca, New York.
		He's researched theoretical celestial mechanics and plasma physics for the layman.
		These are the studies of planetary motion and electrified gases in outer space.
		And he's presented his theories at the Los Alamos National Laboratories and American Geophysical Union.
		And along with a lot of other things, I was right.
		He does not believe that we went to the moon.
		Now this is going to be very interesting.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ladies and gentlemen, here is Professor James McCanney.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		James, welcome back to the show.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Thank you for inviting me back.
		It's always wonderful to be a guest on your show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's great to have you.
		We've got a lot on our plate tonight.
		Gee whiz, I read this really neat story in the first hour.
		I don't know if you heard any of the first hour.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Unfortunately, I was not in a position to listen, unfortunately.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, it'll resonate with you anyway.
		It was all about private space efforts.
		And the story was suggesting that people who own big companies like PayPal, CEO, and so many others are getting the spark to want to go to space themselves.
		And there's about to be a whole lot of private efforts.
		I've talked to a sort of a zillionaire friend of mine in Las Vegas who also is going down that very same road.
		And so I thought it might be fun to talk about the U.S. space effort and where we're going from here, as in probably privately into space.
		What are your views on that?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Well, absolutely.
		Much more efficient, much more direct approach to exactly what they want to do.
		If you take the frontrunners like Bert Rutan, Scaled Composites with financier Paul Allen, they have a very direct mission, and that is to take people up on the ultimate roller coaster ride, if you will.
		So they have a very direct purpose, and that has a much larger purpose, but they're going one step at a time.
		And unlike the government programs, especially in the U.S., which is multifunction and in some cases spread very thin, plus you have the very heavy weight of corporate, let's say, money that doesn't go directly to the project, which is overhead, let's call it.
		So there's a lot of factors which allow the private space investor to go right to the heart of the matter, let's say.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Let's follow the money.
		That's always a good thing to do.
		I mean, where is the money in space?
		How's somebody going to make a profit by going to space?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Well, let's put it this way.
		Let's look at what has happened in the U.S. space program.
		We spend $15 billion a year.
		95% of that does not go into space.
		That goes into salaries and facilities here on Earth.
		So right there, let's take the 5% that's left over.
		Not a whole lot goes into space.
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What I meant is when you consider the world of privateers, people who might develop a rocket and launch it either into low Earth orbit, on up into, I don't know, higher orbit or even to the moon or Mars or whatever a space effort privately might be, how is somebody going to make money at it?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Well, the byproduct, of course, is tourism.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Tourism.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		And the ultimate ride, which you can, then the numbers have all been worked out on this.
		The financial spreadsheets and the business plan, so to speak, have all been worked out.
		And it's a big, big business.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dennis Tito did it.
		Let me see.
		John Denver was going to do it, I believe.
		Wasn't he?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Yes, John Denver, not many people know back in the 90s, had already begun to work with the Russian space program to become the first civilian astronaut.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, I remember when Dennis Tito went, there was blood in the water.
		I mean, NASA was just furious, furious at the Russians for agreeing to take Dennis Tito.
		I mean, they really just went berserk over that at NASA and Washington.
		Why?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Well, my read on it is and has been all along, that was the open sign of what really has been the policy all along, and that is to keep civilians out of space.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		I would think that ultimately, you know, it only makes sense that if you're going to have a manned space program where eventually you would have lots of people in space, you have to get lots of people in space to learn how to do it.
		You can't send up five people and then extrapolate that to 1,000 people in space.
		It just does not work.
		So the programs that we've seen, let's look at it this way.
		The U.S. has had less than 300 people in space in our 30, what, 42 years of manned space program.
		The Russians, conversely, have had, I would say, 20 to 30,000 people in space.
		Not many people realize that back in the 60s, Russia had a small space plane called Cosmos.
		They had 1,600 flights of that between 1962 and 1977.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm one of the people who didn't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What did Cosmos do?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		It was a...
		But basically, it looks exactly like what NASA is proposing today for what they call the mini-shuttle.
		And so the point is that it's not difficult to go into space.
		It's not difficult to get lots of people into space.
		And why the U.S. space program has gone the route It's gone with only 300 people in space for literally a trillion-dollar price tag, is beyond me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I'm on your webpage.
		I'm one of the ones who wants to see it.
		Where do I go to see college?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Just at the very, very top, there's a link.
		It just says coast to coast.
		It says something like C2C notes.
		And you click on that link and you'll go to a subpage.
		And then there will be other links that can bring up the pictures.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it's actually, if you go down the...
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Okay, the first one is an artist's conception of a shuttle-like craft that they decided not to build.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I remember that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They built a copy of our shuttle that never flew, right?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Right.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Well, some people think that we built a copy of theirs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But what I want to see is the Cosmos.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		The Cosmos is the second picture.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		That's what I want to see.
		And how many missions did you say they flew?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Well, between 1962 and 1977, there were something like 1,600.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what exactly did this craft do?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		About 50% of them were manned.
		About 50% were unmanned.
		They would supply space stations.
		They would do reconnaissance missions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, so it did roughly what the shuttle does.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Yes, except it could be flown unmanned and then brought back.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		So 50% of them were manned, 50% of them were unmanned.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think I'm looking at this thing right now, and it looks awfully small.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		It's just a pint-sized little thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And this certainly wouldn't have launched from the ground.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I presume it was launched from the underbelly of some large craft at altitude?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		No, no, this went vertically on top of a rocket.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, okay.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		And it just sat there on top of the rocket, not like our shuttle where it sits on the side of a tank.
		It sat literally on top of a rocket.
		They would blast it off.
		That was the space capsule, so to speak.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gotcha.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		And it would fly back in to the atmosphere.
		And so they had their first woman cosmonaut was 1962.
		And so they had a space program where they were launching literally daily from their two big launch sites out in the middle of the steppes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Daily, uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Daily.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That is incredible.
		You know, I just, I didn't know that fact.
		I had no idea they were that active.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		The next line down on that list of pictures is the Cosmos.
		There's two line items divided up the 1962 to launch schedule, and you can see the numbers they were launching back then.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		That's going to take a moment to load.
		But so, well, right.
		I had no idea they had been that prolific in space.
		So they probably, all in all, may have learned more than we learned with what we've done.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
		They learned how to live in space.
		And what the Russians did is once they developed something, they used it.
		They're still using the valves and the tanks they developed back in the 60s.
		And then they built on that knowledge.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		God, that's a lot of missions.
		You're absolutely right.
		Take a look at this schedule, folks.
		Holy mackerel.
		All right.
		So where do you think our space program's going, James?
		We've got a president who's about to make a speech, apparently now postponed until the State of the Union, that will probably lay out some goal for the U.S., like, I don't know, going back to the moon, or more probably, I would think, to Mars.
		If it's going to be something everybody's going to jump up and down about, it's probably going to have to be Mars.
		I don't know how excited people get about going back to the moon.
		Well, that's another topic you and I have to cover.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		But to answer your immediate question, a presidential directive is not going to cause anything major to happen in the U.S. space program.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		No.
		No, because we don't have...
		And what happens when the president is going to say something, all the aerospace companies lick their chops because it means big money.
		And, you know, when is the last time you heard a CEO of an aerospace corporation say, I want to go into space?
		No, they want to buy a big, expensive house in California and drive a Bentley.
		That's where our aerospace money goes.
		That's where our space program money goes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's the American dream.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		And so it doesn't go into space.
		You contrast that with the Chinese, for example, who have gone out and purchased Russian technology at a very low price, all the way up to docking mechanisms.
		And within a very short amount of time, they're sending people into space at a very low price because they don't have the biggest.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Chinese actually are threatening to go to the moon.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Oh, they're going to be there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they're going to the moon.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		They are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why, just out of curiosity, James, Professor Really, I should call you.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Call me, James, whatever.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why do you think the Chinese want to go to the moon?
		I mean, we have been there, and sorry, we'll get to that.
		We allegedly have been to the moon, and it was nothing but basically a pile of rocks.
		Interesting.
		Certainly an achievement to go there, if we really have done it.
		But no driving reason to get back to the moon that we were made aware of.
		So why would the Chinese want to go?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Well, the real logical reason for going to the moon is, first of all, it's a stepping stone.
		If you can't go to the moon and build a colony, how would you ever go to Mars?
		True.
		Just as an example, you would have to collect and orbit a good amount of space material and equipment to then go to Mars.
		If two-thirds of our Martian probes, which are unmanned, fail going to Mars, what is our probability of sending a first-time craft out there with people on it, have it succeed?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a crashingly good point.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		I mean, these are all just logical conclusions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you do, by the way, we spent some time on this last night.
		Do you have any thoughts on the probably now beginning to exceed two-thirds, considering the fate of the vehicle, probably going past two-thirds of the missions failing, some in very suspicious ways?
		What are your thoughts?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Oh, there's no question in my mind, and there never has been a question that there is sabotage going on in outer space.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, let's clarify that.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		sabotaging outer space or sabotage offer outer space missions done here on earth of which And why not?
		My read on it is that they have, in fact, discovered the remnants of ancient civilizations there.
		We agree.
		And it is now, I know you had a show last night with Richard and touched on these topics.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I disagree with Richard on so much, but when it comes to the fact that there do appear to be clear traces of an ancient civilization there, the fact that there was atmosphere and water and that Mars was a viable planet, then there's every reason to jump to the possible conclusion that there's big life that was there or is there underground or who the heck knows, but something obviously occurred big on Mars.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you think we know that and you think we want to keep that secret, right?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Well, here is my read, and I've written this in my books, especially the Atlantis to Tesla book, that Atlantis or at least some ancient civilization on Earth met a terrible demise.
		And I think there's a lot of people out there that agree with that.
		But that there was space travel at least to Mars, which at the time was a vibrant water planet and in a much closer orbit to Earth as it passed around the solar system outside of our orbit.
		It came at one point much closer to Earth than it does now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you believe ancient Earth-bound civilization sent probes to Mars, not the other way around, but from here on Earth to Mars?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Well, I can't say who developed first, but I believe there was travel and quite a vibrant, advanced society that moved between the two planets.
		And I've developed, of course, this propulsion system, which I've talked about.
		And in the month of August, where Earth passes through in our month of August, there's an electrical current sheet.
		And with an electromagnetic propulsion system, you can ride that current sheet out to Mars very easily.
		So it's basically a river of electrical current that you can ride out there with the proper propulsion system and then transfer between the two planets.
		But be that as it may, let's get back to the point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, for somebody who's considered to be a mainstream physicist, and certainly your credentials are pretty good ones, some of this stuff is pretty far out to be believing.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm also an archaeologist.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		And there is a great deal of indication in the archaeology around the world that the things that we see, the Egyptian pyramids, the things which trace back to before the great catastrophe, which was worldwide, that there was very advanced civilizations on this planet.
		And they were capable of drawing electricity out of the atmosphere like we should be doing and powering their civilizations and also space travel.
		However, they did it could be open to interpretation and question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, again, this is pretty far out for somebody like yourself to believe all of this.
		I'm going to be very interested in finding out how you arrived at these conclusions.
		I mean, certainly we can look at the Sphinx and the pyramids and we can argue about their date, but not too much.
		I mean, we know pretty much when they were built, and I don't know that there's a whole lot of evidence for a human civilization that goes back, say, hundreds of thousands of years, but I'm certainly willing to listen.
		And that we may have gone to Mars, maybe even done a little trade with Mars or something, interplanetary commerce.
		Why not?
		Think of the protests.
		From the high desert, in the nighttime where we belong, it's coast to coast.
		AM.
		I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		No, I would not give you false hope on this strange morning day.
		But your mother and child reunion is only a motion wave.
		I lived on my mind.
		I can't follow the life of me.
		Remember a sad day.
		I know they say let me.
		I just don't work out that way.
		In the course of a lifetime runs.
		Over and over again.
		Well, I would not give you false hope on this strange and awful day.
		But the mother and child reunion is only a motion wave.
		To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
		From west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach Art by calling your in-country sprint access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free, 800-893-0903.
		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's a pleasure to meet with you in the middle of the night, this moment toward the end of the year as we're kind of winding things up.
		my guest is professor james mckinney and we've got all kinds of totally fascinating ground to cover so don't budge Thank you.
		All right, Professor, as an archaeologist, where would be the evidence that would convince you that humans were trudging around on the planet hundreds of thousands, millions of years ago?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Possibly not quite that long ago, even.
		But here I want to clarify, Art.
		My logic is very similar to Richard Hoagland's in we started talking about sabotaging missions to Mars.
		Yes.
		Let's do a little logic here.
		If these probes from other countries are being sabotaged, and if they're being sabotaged by the U.S., what are the few things, the very few things that would cause our intelligence agencies to sabotage those missions?
		If they thought there were just little microbes walking around or somebody was searching for water, nobody would care.
		So let's look at the things that would cause the intelligence agency to sabotage spacecraft.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, but that for me, that's a big if because I don't believe that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But okay, with that as an assumption, what could be big enough to cause them to do that?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		And my logic, and now you put this together with the probability we have had very advanced civilizations on this planet previously, and then what is our nearest real life-supporting planet in this solar system, really the only other one.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		And if Mars, within certain recent past, had an ocean, water, and atmosphere, then it would be the likely candidate to travel to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Agreed.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		So all of these things, you put them together, and unlike, say, my theoretical physics work, this is a series of probabilities and depends on certain assumptions.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		And so that's how I arrive at that conclusion, given that certain assumptions are true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, then let me circle back to my first question.
		As an archaeologist, even if it's a more recent vintage, where would be evidence indicating that man attained a high level of technological civilization at any point prior to his current known presence?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Well, there again, I believe right now there's a good deal of archaeological work going on on planet Earth that is very secretive.
		And the reason it's very secretive is because they are discovering technologies which were used in ancient times.
		Tesla-type technologies, electromagnetic propulsion system technologies, things that I personally have worked on.
		And these are some of the key elements to really living in the universe, living in outer space and traveling in outer space.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, let's slow up here.
		Things that you have worked on.
		You believe that you've worked on technology gleaned from archaeological discoveries here on Earth.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		No, I came about them kind of through the back door, through physics.
		For example, the electromagnetic propulsion system that I've displayed to the public in 1982, it's in my Atlantis to Tesla book.
		There's about 20 pages dedicated to that.
		And it's a method of traveling in outer space.
		Most people think of rocket engines where you heat up some type of a fuel and blow it out the back end of a nozzle.
		And that's the only type of propulsion which has really been given to the public in terms of what is available.
		And those are called inertial propulsion systems.
		In other words, you throw something one way and you go the other way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but we're trying to get to something that was archaeologically discovered here on Earth that you may have worked on or front door, back door, any other door.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, where did we get this information?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Well, let's, for example, look at the Tesla-type technology That I believe was used in Atlantis to draw energy out of the ionosphere to power their city.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		And once you, here's the thing: once you realize that these ancient technologies existed, they used glass, they had a good understanding and a working knowledge of glass, of metals, of electrical currents, of magnetic fields, and you put these together, the logical steps bring you to the electromagnetic propulsion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I mean, how do we know this since we haven't discovered Atlantis?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Well, there again, I believe that it has been discovered in the South China Sea.
		The U.S. Navy since the 90s has been excavating there.
		And much of which the recent discoveries in Iraq, for example, relate back to electrical devices, including batteries.
		I always find it interesting, for example, that the first batteries invented in modern times, for example, the Edison battery, was a carbon copy of the ancient seawater batteries.
		And Edison used a slightly different chemical combination in his alkaline liquid batteries, but it was basically the same principle as the seawater battery.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you believe that he gleaned that concept from some archaeological information?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		You do.
		Yes.
		And both him and Tesla, I am thoroughly convinced.
		In fact, Tesla is known to have said that he had seen documents that came through his father to him, who was in the archives in the Vatican.
		So that's where he got his first glimpse of these electromagnetic devices that he later perfected and developed into.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that Tesla had a deal with somebody or an entity?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, do you believe that the U.S. government or governments have been uncovering this secretly, this archaeological data, and passing it to people like Nikola Tesla and then allowing us to believe that that development came from Tesla or Edison or many of the great discoveries that we just talked about?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Exactly how those all came about, oddly enough, all at the same time in history is quite amazing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Like we had suddenly run into some giant library of information.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		And my thought on it is the Vatican Library, which contains a tremendous amount of ancient information that has never surfaced to the public.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we know that's darn well true.
		The Vatican does have that library.
		Father Malachi Martin and I discussed it many times.
		Great.
		And of course, we did seize the work of Nikola Tesla upon his death.
		The government went rushing in and took all those documents away.
		We know that.
		So I cannot dismiss this possibility, but that's quite a secret for a long period of time, isn't it?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Well, exactly.
		And that's one thing I believe I've done is finally discovered not only the basic principles of those scientific principles, but I've also discovered the source of energy, for example, for Tesla's tower.
		And it turns out to be the electric field of the sun, which is produced when the sun puts out an excess current of positive charge.
		There are electrons and protons and other ions in the solar wind, but it turns out there's an excess, a little bit more positive charge than negative charge.
		And when this blows out into the far distant regions of the solar system, it creates a large capacitor.
		And eventually, some of that current returns to the sun because you can't keep building up this charge forever.
		And that current comes back at least one place where we pass through in the month of August in the solar system.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, this I buy into.
		There is clearly a source of energy as relates the Earth.
		There's no question about it.
		There is.
		There are differentials that apparently can be tapped.
		Now, why do you think nobody has gone to work like crazy on developing this technology?
		Why not?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Well, we are strapped to an oil-based economy, and the people in charge of that, I mean, we have an oil president, and all of the industries and businesses that are built up around the world are based on this oil technology.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		If we start handing out energy for free, obviously there's going to be some economic impact here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, let's try this, James.
		For years, all the years I've been on the air, I've invited anybody with a machine which has more output than input to come and demonstrate its practical or even impractical application, even in the form of a toy.
		And I have yet to have, I've just not been taken up on it.
		And others who have been searching like mad, like Dr. Greer, who are so, so serious about this, also, to be honest, as of this date, can't say they've got it in their hands.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		And I'm about to embark on a tour here in February.
		I'll be giving some talks in the southwest.
		You're part of the world over there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		With demonstratable devices, both regarding Tesla, the ability to draw energy Out of the atmosphere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, alrighty now.
		What kind of machines are we discussing here?
		As best you're able, describe to me what it is that you're going to be touring with.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		One is a Tesla tower type of device, which is small, like you say.
		It's not the large type which would...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Scale models are acceptable as long as they work.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		But if you look right at the top of my homepage, if you scroll down just a little bit, I have the full-scale picture of Tesla's original tower.
		And basically what that tower did was to he used a kind of a trigger type of DC device which created a large spark.
		This is a standard oscillating circuit in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know what, I really do want to see this, and I'm back on your home page again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not sure how far back I'm going to have to go here.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Just go down a little ways, right at the top should be that picture of the Tesla Tower.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, okay, I'm back on your main page.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Should I be clicking again on the coast-to-coast notes?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		No, no.
		Just scroll down.
		Just grab the scroll bar and scroll down.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Short way, and there's the picture.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
		There it is.
		Tesla's tower.
		It's in 1900.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		And now what that device did was the following.
		In that building that's at the bottom is the control electronics.
		And what that did is it used basically a DC power source to create a, there's two parts of it.
		There's a spark generator, which goes at approximately 40 hertz.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is really interesting as hell, folks.
		This you want to see.
		This is Nikola Tesla's tower, and I've never seen a photograph of it before.
		This is a first for me.
		Fascinating.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Look at the top of that thing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I am looking very carefully.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		And now here's what goes on there.
		There's two stages to the electronics in the building.
		There's a spark generator oscillator, which runs at around 40 cycles per second.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very low.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		And then included in there is a large tube amplifier, which drives a spiked signal into the transformer that's in that building.
		And that's a high-step-up transformer, probably a 50,000 to 1 ratio transformer.
		And basically, that's the principle of the Tesla coil.
		Now, up the very center, you see a metal rod going up to the top.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		And what that does is that simply carries that voltage up to the very top, and you see the pins sticking out all over.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		That's to spread the effect of this rapidly changing voltage out to a broad area in the atmosphere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, and I also see just below the top what appear to be, I think I can make out parts of two very large coils just below the tower.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And that is the top end of the transformer.
		Now, what this does is it takes a tremendous amount of power once this thing gets going.
		So you are oscillating a voltage, let's say, to a quarter million volts plus and a quarter million volts minus, 40 times a second.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		What that does to the atmosphere, now the atmosphere is a dipole or dielectric, which means the molecules in the atmosphere are randomly oriented as they move around and bounce against each other, and they have small dipole moments, electrical dipole moments, that means a plus and a negative charge separated.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		And they're moving around at random.
		That creates a tremendous buffer between us and the ionosphere, which is very highly charged.
		So we have a big capacitor up to the ionosphere.
		And now what that tower does is it literally drills an electrical hole through the dielectric of the atmosphere.
		And the way you do that is you start flipping these molecules in unison up and down and up and down and up and down and above the tower.
		And as you go farther and farther up in the atmosphere, as this effect takes hold of the atmosphere farther and farther up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're drilling a hole up toward the ionosphere.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Toward the ionosphere.
		And once you hit the ionosphere, you have literally unlimited electrical power because it's all going to drain down that one tube.
		Now you can turn off your Tesla generator and you start collecting the current that's coming down.
		But you need to have a trend.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that path that you have established is then maintained on its own.
		In other words, the energy coming from the ionosphere keeps that path open.
		Is that correct?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
		And this would work with any capacitor.
		If you took any capacitor and put two plates and a dielectric between it, and you drilled a hole anywhere in that dielectric between the plates, all the current would flow through that one path that you created.
		So that's what he's doing in the atmosphere and allowing incredible amounts of current to come down that path.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where is or was this tower located?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Well, he built two.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		One was in New Jersey and then one was out near Colorado Springs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you know which one this was?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		I do not know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Looks more like Colorado country to me.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		That's what I think.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		It looks like the Colorado one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you know if this is still there?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		No, it's, oh, no.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		They took care of these.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They took care of these.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is really fascinating stuff.
		Go to the webpage, folks, Coastacozaam.com, where you're used to going.
		And tonight's guest, James McKenna, click on his website.
		And when you get there, just go down the main page to the point where you see Nikola Tesla's Tower, circa 1900.
		I have never, in my life, until now, seen an actual photograph of Tesla's Tower.
		This is really fascinating stuff.
		And again, it literally drilled a hole in An upward direction until it reached the ionosphere.
		And at that point, the ionospheric difference, the capacitive difference, like a giant capacitor, current, I guess, voltage and current flow began down toward this tower and then was self-sustaining.
		Do you know offhand, James, what kind of energy was harnessed once that was accomplished?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Well, the vertical electric field is about three volts per meter.
		So figure out the number of meters, we're talking huge amounts of voltage here.
		And of course, there's two aspects to any electricity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So we don't have records that show us what he actually measured?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		No, we do not have any written record of Tesla's own work.
		But it's big.
		And there's two aspects to any electrical circuit.
		One is voltage, the other is current.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right, yes.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		And so they're both huge.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Let's say that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're both huge.
		All right.
		Professor McKenny, hold on.
		This really is fascinating.
		You've got to get your computer.
unidentified		Make a look.
		Now it begins, now that you're gone, needles and pins, what have you done?
		Watching that cloud, till you return, fighting that torch, and watching it burn.
		I I'll take it in the day.
		This is my life.
		To talk with Art Bell.
		Call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
		The first-time caller line is Area Code 775-727-1222.
		To talk with Art Bell from East of the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033.
		From West to the Rockies, call ART at 800-618-8255.
		International callers may reach Art Bell by calling your in-country sprint access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is absolutely fascinating.
		I've had my own hints that there's definitely power to be obtained from the atmosphere.
		I've just had little hints, you know, I've got this monster antenna up, and I've had some pretty jolting hints, actually, that something really is up with this.
		And seeing Tesla's Tower is incredible.
		I mean, it's just incredible.
		I had no idea it was here.
		Definitely go up to the website, CostaCoastAM.com, click on tonight's guest website, and then just scroll down on the main page just a little bit, and you'll bump right into a picture of Tesla's Tower.
		Probably the one in Colorado.
		It's hard to say, but clearly, this was a structure designed to tap free energy.
		And it was explained by Professor McCanney that you would literally, in effect, drill up through the atmosphere until you connected with the ionosphere.
		And when you did, a path would be born that would be then self-sustaining, delivering large amounts of both current and voltage to that tower.
		More in a moment.
unidentified		Stay right there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Professor McKenney, if Nikola Tesla's papers are no longer a matter of national security, I mean, they were seized a very long time ago, and certainly by now a review of his lab papers would have been thoroughly done.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So if they're no longer a matter of national security, then why have they not yet, still not yet been released?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Well, my only read on it is, like I said earlier, we live in an oil-based economy, and the people running the show are oil people.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		And providing free electrical energy that could drive our cars, our buses, our trains, and pretty much everything else would overnight change the economy of the world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It certainly would.
		I mean, what about the other side?
		The amount of greenhouse gases that are being emitted in the process of burning this oil, and the fact that the North Pole and South Pole are starting to melt on us, and new seas are being created, the weather is changing, these little matters that are staring mankind right in the face.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Not to mention we're burning the oxygen we need to breathe.
		I mean, yeah, all of these things, you know, it just we cannot keep doing this.
		The thing people have asked me, wouldn't there be some problem with draining the ionosphere?
		And if you look at the total amount of power, now you have to understand this is not a static amount of power up there.
		It's being continually replenished by the solar wind electric field which we live in, which is so enormous.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there actually any way to demonstrate or even project how much power might be available?
		And yes, could we drain the ionosphere?
		You're in the middle of answering that one.
		But is there any way to even imagine the amount of power that could be reasonably taken from the ionosphere without damage?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		There are very good examples.
		And for example, cyclonic storms like hurricanes.
		Of course, I've done a lot of weather work, and I've done shows with you on my weather work, which show that hurricanes, cyclonic storms, are actually powered by this same power source.
		If you simply calculate the amount of energy in a hurricane, there's no way that the Earth solar energy allotment from visible light coming in is sufficient to give you the amount of energy in that hurricane.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Isn't there almost every reason to believe that hurricanes and I guess the Pacific side, we call them something else, but they're really here to cool our atmosphere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They provide a cooling effect, a control, a thermostat-like effect for the atmosphere.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Well, they do, but the point is they're driven by this same power source that we're talking about here.
		They're driven from the ionospheric power source.
		And the thing I always point out is this energy is coming down to the surface of the Earth all the time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		And the atmospheric scientists who I follow all the time are struggling with trying to understand what they call the current balance in the atmosphere.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But I guess what I'm asking is these hurricanes are in some way important to the function of everything that's going on, to our environment.
		Now, if we begin to tap power from the ionosphere, is it not possible there would be fewer or even no hurricanes suddenly?
		And that certainly might have a profound effect on things.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Well, let's take an example of a hurricane like, say, Floyd, big one.
		That hurricane has enough energy in it, if you could, say, convert it to one-to-one with, say, a 25% efficiency that we normally have converting energy from one source into electricity.
		There's enough energy there to run our country for about a year.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gotcha.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		But we're talking vast, vast, and that's just a dribble of the energy we're talking about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But is the ionosphere directly feeding that hurricane with the amount of power?
		Or is the Earth dynamic really what's providing all the energy differential, you know, the hot and the cold air and the whole mass.
		In other words, it might get started from there, but certainly it is not directly and totally fed from there.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's a lot of confluence of energy sources, let's say.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		But the major source of energy has to be that source of electrical current because we see these elves and sprites above thunderstorms and hurricanes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We do indeed.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		And we know this energy is flowing down there.
		It's just that standard meteorological science has not caught up with that fact yet.
		But a simple energy calculation, something that every freshman physics student is taught to do, has not been done by our meteorological international community.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wouldn't you think that if Tesla had successfully tapped the energy from the ionosphere, that he would have done measurements which would be included in his research papers?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely, because one thing you have to be able to do once you do this is control it.
		Oh, indeed.
		And he could control it.
		He knew how to How big a hole do you drill in that dam to let the water through to run your generator to generate a certain amount of electricity?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A controllable amount.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		A controllable amount, exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so the size of the hole drilled in the ionosphere by such tower would determine the amount of voltage and current energy, in other words, that he received.
unidentified		Right.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		And another big factor which I've discovered in addition to what Tesla did is that in the temperate climates, the ionospheric belts move easterly, and the ions, the positively charged ions, are up in the ionosphere.
		Around the equator, the ion belt up there is literally electrons, and it moves westerly.
		And that's far more efficient to tap into that one than it is the temperate climate belts which move easterly.
		So we would build these around the equator and then trunk the power up to the places where we use it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and you think this technology is well understood and well hidden?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's go ahead and tackle it.
		You do not believe the USA went to the moon in the years spanning 69 to 72, that the Apollo shots never went to the moon.
		Is that correct?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's have it.
		What's the best evidence that that didn't happen?
		I mean, if it didn't happen, then obviously a Hollywood production did.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And here's the situation, because of course, there have been many people on coast to coast talking about this issue.
		And they've talked about everything from the flag not waving to the fact that the lunar lander was not developed properly, that the lunar rover could not fit in the lunar lander.
		Those are all what I call extraneous, but good possible arguments, but they all lead down the road of everybody arguing over it.
		The one argument that I Use is that we did not have the know-how or the ability and still do not have the ability to get through the Van Allen belts.
		Very simple.
		We are surrounded by belts of relativistic particles, which is a very important component of our overall magnetic field.
		But these high-energy electrons and protons moving around in counter-rotating belts around the Earth, when you put a metal spacecraft in that, then all of a sudden you're sitting in an X-ray chamber.
		And I know from my own personal communication with the Russians that they understand this, and they know that the Apollo craft never went through that Van Allen belt because they tried to do it back in the 60s, and their cosmonauts came back very roasted.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They did.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have evidence of that?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Other than them telling me.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		I've had quite a bit of conversation with certain Russian scientists.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		And they just kind of chuckle at the American public thinking we went to the moon.
		Now, imagine the Russians with their ability to go into space.
		We've already seen that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And they think that we claim we went to the moon is funny.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah.
		And now the Russians have heavy lift vehicles.
		They can put 165 tons into space in one shot.
		Whereas we can put about 15 tons into space.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I am aware of their heavy vehicles indeed.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Amazing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let me read you something from a story that I had on a little earlier.
		I want to read this and I want to get your reaction to it.
		This just is in part.
		Will space radiation be a problem for astronauts on a private mission?
		Now, this is discussing the private aspect of space.
		Robert Zubrin says a New York Times article by Matthew Wald grossly overestimated the danger.
		Wald wrote, quote, the astronauts who went to the moon on Apollo 14 accumulated about 1,140 millirem equivalent of about three years on Earth in their nine-day mission.
		The astronauts on Skylab 4, who spent 87 days in low Earth orbit, received a dose of about 17,800 millirem equivalent to a 50-year background dose on Earth.
		That dose was near the threshold of radiation exposure that produces clinically measurable symptoms.
		Longer-term effects like increases in cancer rates have not been observed in adults exposed to doses at that level, but experts presume the effects exist.
		Were they lying about these measurements?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Okay, now I have seen that article that you just read, and that is by medical doctors who are also medical physicists.
		So they understand radiation dosage, etc.
		What they don't understand is the problem in the Van Allen belt.
		Now, for example, one thing that NASA still doesn't understand, and remember there's a couple things that they don't talk about.
		One is called shuttle glow.
		When they get the shuttle up into too high an orbit, it starts to glow.
		And they took the astronauts in the shuttle one time up to about a 500-mile orbit, and their eyebrows began to glow, and they brought them down right away.
		But the point being here, NASA doesn't understand what's going on here.
		I'm going to bring up another point that's related.
		And at one point, NASA had a program called the Tether Program.
		They let a tether, a carbon tether, out of the shuttle bay, and they were going to let it out a couple kilometers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm very well aware of this experience.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		And they didn't get the thing out more than a couple hundred yards, and the electrical discharge that came down that tether nearly took the shuttle out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's fact.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Right?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		You know that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's fact, yes.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		And now, this is, NASA still doesn't understand what's going on here.
		When you put a spacecraft out in those electrical fields that are associated with those high magnetic fields in the Van Allen belts, you discharge those local batteries.
		And not only do you get the cross-sectional radiation from the Van Allen belts, you also discharge that, increasing by 100 or 1,000 or 100,000-fold the amount of electrical activity that's hitting that spacecraft.
		So the guy that wrote that article and NASA still do not understand these principles.
		And they certainly didn't understand them back in 1969.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it is your contention the shuttle begins to glow in a higher orbit, say 500 miles, due to Now, I've seen all the NASA explanations.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, I'll ask you what yours is.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		My explanation is that it is discharging the local capacitor there in outer space, and basically it's like the bug in the backyard bug killer.
		It's discharging a capacitor and causing the electrical current coming from that.
		It's very similar to the Tesla tower in that when you have a capacitor and it starts to discharge through a single point, that's where it's going to unload.
		And the same thing happens when you send a spacecraft into a non-uniform electric field like you have in the Van Allen belt region, you are then going to cause an electrical discharge in that region, thusly increasing, like I say, thousandfold, 100,000 fold the amount of electrical current hitting that spacecraft.
		And all of that is going to turn into X-rays.
		Now these are relativistic particles, so the X-ray level is going to be extremely high.
		And so that article does not take that into account.
		Now, the other thing is the radiation badges that the Apollo astronauts wore was simply for alpha and beta particles.
		They did not know about the X-ray hazard at that time, so they have no X-ray badges on.
		So I know all About this, and the Apollo astronauts had no measurement of X-ray activity at the time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If the Apollo astronauts did not go to the moon, Professor, where did they go?
unidentified		I don't know.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		but it's amazing to me that none of the astronauts are allowed to talk about this.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		There are people who have asked them and they do not get an answer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're right.
		I know.
		There is a sort of a strange silence from all the astronauts on some aspects of their missions.
		I've even had the pleasure of interviewing men who have walked on the moon.
		And their answers to some questions are really, really, really puzzling.
		I remember interviewing Ed Mitchell right in the middle of a really whale interview on what it was like to be on the moon.
		I asked Dr. Mitchell to relate to me what he thought about when he was on the moon.
		And you know what he told me?
		He told me he couldn't remember.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He told me he couldn't remember what he thought about while he was on the moon.
		I mean, it's the damnedest thing, damnedest answer you could get, and it's stuck with me ever since.
		Basically, that all of that to him, that time on the moon, was foggy.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		That's bizarre.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is bizarre.
		It truly is bizarre.
		And you think, obviously, the reason for that is that we didn't go.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and here's what happened, my read on it, 1969.
		We're about ready to go to the moon, and the word comes down.
		And I know for a fact the lunar lander was not ready because they were having trouble flying the thing and landing it because of just the dynamics of that clumsy vehicle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do recall the experiments, the Earthbound experiments, and they had a horrible problem controlling it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But of course, the moon would have, what, one-sixth the gravity of Earth, so I guess they presumed it would be a different control trip, right?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Well, and you're coming down in unknown terrain.
		It's not like, I mean, just a rock or something.
		But be that as it may, my read on it was when they got to that point, the word came down.
		They said, you know, we're in the middle of the Cold War.
		Was the Kennedy directive to land on the moon before the end of the century?
		Nixon was the president.
		And the directive came down.
		It said, we're going to fake this one, but we're going to go on the next one.
		The next one came and they weren't ready.
		And ultimately, they canceled the last three, I believe, missions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so from your point of view, then, it's true we never went to the moon, not in those years anyway, right?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		And then they tore down the Saturn V complex, which was the most amazing rocket complex to date.
		I mean, it far outshadowed anything the Russians have done to that point.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we did, in fact, do that.
		All right, Professor.
		Professor James McCanney is my guest.
		And as you can see, this is going to be absolutely fascinating stuff.
		Certainly a bit of a counter point of view from a very well-educated man.
		And he backs it up.
		Riders of the storm.
unidentified		Riders of the storm.
		into this house Be it sight, sound, smell, or touch, there's something inside that we need so much.
		The sight of a touch, or the scent of a sand, or the strength of an oak roots deep in the ground.
		The wonder of flowers to be covered and then to burst up through tarmac to the sun again.
		Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing.
		To lie in a meadow and hear the grass sing, to have all these things in our memories home, and they use them to help us to find.
		Yeah!
		Right past your soul, take this place, on this trip, just for me!
		Yeah!
		Yeah!
		Take a big roll, take my boots, up my seat, it's for me!
		Wanna take a ride?
		To talk with Art Bell.
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		From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You can be sure we'll get the phone lines open for Professor James McCanney.
		We're talking of all kinds of things tonight.
		Free energy, vanilla belts, energy that actually would come from the ionosphere.
		Boy, do I buy into that.
		The fact we didn't go to the moon, according to Professor McCanney, and a lot more.
		Now, somebody that is going to the moon would be, or somebody's, the Chinese.
		And there's quite a bit to be said about the Chinese, which we'll say in a few moments.
unidentified		The End The Chinese.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's talk for a second about the Chinese.
		Professor, you say that the Chinese will have a standing population in outer space of 100,000 people in five years.
		How are they going to manage that one?
		And if they do, in fact, achieve that, how will the United States suddenly have gone from the world leader in most things space connected to end of the line?
		I mean, that's pretty incredible.
		100,000 Chinese in space in five years.
		How do you imagine that could be?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Well, first of all, let's look at the early Russian launches.
		We've seen 1,600 of the Cosmos launches, and the U.S. military intelligence knows that those were cover launches for much bigger launches.
		That little space plane was just part of the cargo on those 1,600 launches between 1962 and 1977.
		So we know it's easy to get in space and get a lot of stuff in space.
		The Chinese have purchased the Russian rocket technology, the space capsule design.
		Everything you saw in that one guy going around the Earth with a Chinese astronaut was Russian.
		They have recently purchased the docking mechanism from Russia, one of the hardest things to develop.
		Now, the next thing that the Chinese are going to learn is that they can replace the heavy lift rockets with a runway-to-orbit airplane.
		And as soon as they get there, they are minutes away from putting those 100,000 people in space.
		And the way they'll do it is they'll learn how to construct very large containers in space, possibly using something the equivalent of the Goodyear blimp and hooking them together in large arrays, basically looking something like the 2001 space station that we all thought we would have by 2001 in this country.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, I've spoken to some pretty brilliant people in the past, Professor, who have suggested that the solid-fuel boosters, or the boosters that the shuttle has anyway, could be,
		instead of dumped into the sea and retrieved, taken into orbit and turned into a virtual 2001-type space station with enormous room for people to live and work and even hotels and imagined all kinds of things that NASA could be doing with the current tanks.
		Great.
		Is that a plausible concept?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Well, first of all, the tanks drop off very early in the shuttle flight.
		Yes.
		So getting them up the rest of the way is a bit of a problem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Assuming, though.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		But if you design a system that, in fact, was designed to take those tanks up there, my read on it is that you don't leave the launch vehicle up there.
		You have a reusable launch vehicle.
		It goes from runway to low Earth orbit and basically opens up and out comes the tank that you're going to leave up there.
		So you don't mix the launch vehicle with the thing you're going to leave in space.
		For example, you could take a standard 727 airframe, which there are lots of.
		You know which one that is with the two engineers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, the tanks that I was describing are compared favorably to about an aircraft of that size.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Right, exactly.
		Exactly.
		It's just that our current launch system drops those tanks off very early in the flight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but if you could get them into orbit, could you then...
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely right.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		So you would design a launch system that just carried those all the way.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're saying that this kind of doing this sort of thing in space is indeed possible, and you believe the Chinese are in the process of being on the way to doing it.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		They're going to learn very quickly how to do all of these things that, for some reason in this country, have been bypassed.
		For example, our shuttle system, the Russians had that design also early in the, say, the 60s, like that picture on my homepage shows the very first picture.
		And they nixed the idea.
		They said, no, it's not viable.
		And they used all the reasons that we're finding out the hard way.
		And they said they went to a heavy launch system because most of the launches that you put up there really don't have people on them.
		It has equipment.
		So why launch people, which are really unnecessary, when you're just trying to get equipment up there?
		So there's a certain rationale for that.
		But the Chinese are going to learn the principle.
		And now, take, for example, let's just talk about the private space programs for a second.
		What Bert Ruttan is doing, what a lot of other people are doing.
		They're going from a runway up to five miles.
		People don't understand that when you see that big tank on the shuttle or on the Saturn V booster back in the Apollo program, 95% of that fuel was spent in getting up to five miles at a low speed, up to maybe 500 miles an hour, because that's the thick part of the atmosphere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I am aware of that cost.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Then you unload that, and then the next stage is to move sideways because you're really, at that point, out of the atmosphere, 95% of it.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		And so now your goal is to get up to orbital speed, which is about 17,000 miles an hour.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, okay.
		I don't understand how all of this, how this story comes out.
		On the one hand, we have all kinds of secret technology.
		We are to imagine that there are many secrets in space That, for whatever reason, we don't want the world to know about.
		But, gee, we've got the Chinese, we've got private industry people, we've got the Japanese are getting space happy.
		I mean, the Europeans are launching quite a bit.
		More and more of the world is getting set to go into space.
		So are we just, have we found out something so dire that the United States just said, we pass, we're not going, you know, and maybe we can't stop the Chinese, but once they get out up there and figure out what it is, they won't want to tell their people either or what?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		No, I think the Chinese have a whole different national directive.
		And I think it comes back to I don't really understand the rationale.
		If I would have been in charge of the space program, things would be a lot different.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll bet.
		All right, but just let me ask you, what do you think the Chinese, what do you think their goals are?
		What do you think the Chinese ultimately want to do?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Populate space.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		They've got 2 billion people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you've got a good point.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		And putting, like, my estimate of 100,000 people in space in five years.
unidentified		But where would you put them?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, you're right.
		They've got a lot of people, 2 billion people.
		It's expensive right now to put people in space.
		Where would the Chinese put these people?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Well, first of all, they would learn how to live in low Earth orbit, just like we should have been doing all along.
		A good example is when our astronauts go up to space.
		They don't, you know, except for a couple of very unique experiments, they don't learn how to live there.
		All of their food is in little packages, and it's all pre-cooked, and they just suck it out of a straw, and that's it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, what else are you going to do?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's no 7-Eleven in low-Earth orbit.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Exactly, but the Chinese are going to learn how to live and grow food and live there.
		You see what I mean?
		It's going to be a totally different concept.
		And I'll say this also.
		I know how to get through the Van Allen belts.
		There's a very simple method of doing it.
		The Chinese are going to figure it out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Lead?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		No.
unidentified		What?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		It's a little secret I'm keeping to myself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Art, I will tell you in private someday.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		How's that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, all right, then tell me why is it a secret?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		It's a secret for me because I'm waiting to see who figures out how to do this.
		And the reason I'm not going to announce it is because it's one of the critical aspects of, say, getting to the moon.
		There may be an element of national security here, and so it's just something that I've decided to keep under my hat for the time being.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		That's fine.
		I will ask you in private.
		Anyway.
		Okay.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		But it's very simple.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		It's like baking a cake, and the Chinese are going to figure out how to do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gotcha.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		But they're going to be populating the moon, and by the time we get there with our congressional funding and our current plans for moving in space, there's not going to be a square inch of it left.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You think the Chinese will get to the moon and claim it, say it's Chinese sovereign territory?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's the old thing.
		We're in a stage right now in world history which is very similar to the discovery of the New World.
		And look at how the nations that were most powerful back then shook out.
		And they made some very serious mistakes, some of which were becoming involved in petty little earth wars when they should have been going out and populating this globe.
		And some of them are in a very backseat position today when they were world powers back then.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the Chinese really are aggressively pursuing space right now.
		It is amazing what they're doing.
		That they announced they're going to the moon, I thought, was incredible.
		And so you're saying they have designs on the moon.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		I believe so.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		And I think they're going to go there, and I think they're going to beat us.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And we're just going to sit on our collective American duffs while the Chinese do all this?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		We're going to buy SUVs and drive around and go to shopping malls.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You think so?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And the Russians, the Russians, I take it you feel, are so financially upside down right now that they can't be the ones to do it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They simply are going to help the Chinese.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		I don't know how that's going to shake out.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Russia is kind of a funny place because they have done so much on so little.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is a funny place, actually.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		And so I can't really say, I mean, I know a lot about the Russians, the Russian space program, but I am hesitant to predict where they're going.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Unlike the Chinese, it's very clear where the Chinese are going.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So the Chinese then will de facto actually claim the moon simply by occupying it.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		That's about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And to do this, of course, they're going to have to have technology that we now don't know about publicly, correct?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
		But very simple technology.
		The thing that the Russians learned very early and are still making great use of is very simple things.
		When NASA needed some kind of a pen to write in space, they spent a tremendous amount of money and now they have a ballpoint pen that'll work in outer space.
		The Russians use a pencil.
		When we develop a valve, we have triple redundancy, can be controlled from Houston, from the ground, and all this electronics and computer controls, and the astronaut types in a command on a keyboard, and the valve opens.
		The Russians walk up to a valve and turn it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That really is quite true.
		I particularly like the pen thing.
		We did spend a lot of money to get a pen that would write in space, and we used a pencil.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		You know, and that is the kind of thing, and the Russians are using today the big kerosene boosters.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can't remember the movie it was, but it was funnier than hell.
		Maybe you can help me out here.
		There was a movie in which we uh we had a mission and we were trying to save the world, and we docked the shuttle at the Russian space station.
		And in fact, that's what the guy was doing.
		The Russian cosmonaut was so funny.
		He was kicking his machines, turning valves, and this is the way we do it here.
		This is the way a Russian gets it done.
		And what you just said reminded me of that.
		Do you recall that movie?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		No, I did not see it.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		It was probably one of the where Bruce Willis saves the world with it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it was.
		It was one of those movies.
		I can't recall the title.
		Somebody will come up with it.
		But that Russian was classic.
		And so they've taken that different an approach to space.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
		Yeah, and they could their big rocket development program, and of course, there's a limit to heavy-lift rockets, and they've pretty much hit it with their big rockets today.
		And we have literally no rocket ability.
		One of the points of that Cosmos spacecraft, that little mini-shuttle, one of the points I wanted to make about that is that is what NASA now is proposing for our replacement to the bigger shuttle, but we don't have any rockets to launch it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And just sort of as a political side note, what is going to cause the United States to politically sit on its duff while we see the Chinese beginning to build in moon craters or whatever?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		I mean, I am baffled by NASA and what it is not doing and where all the money is going.
		And even if they were doing a secret space program, we would see bits and pieces of that somehow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you or do you not believe there is a secret space program?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Oh, there absolutely is, but I don't see it doing much either.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What form of secret space program do you believe there to be?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Well, something I've been inv involved in way back into the 80s were the propulsion systems.
		And we have certain things on the drawing board, but all require fundamental physics improvements in, like, say, the handling of fission or fusion systems of dealing with large-scale systems in space.
		I mean, none of them could be built today.
		Let's put it that way.
		I mean, you can draw a nice picture, artist rendition, laser sails or ramjet fusion technology, but literally none of them are feasible with today's technology.
		So I don't know, you know, I don't see the that part of what I've seen in the secret world of space.
		I don't see that as producing anything real.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what kind of world would it be now if we didn't have a pen which you could write with upside down?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Or Keplan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By the way, the movie was Armageddon.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Oh, okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My beautiful wife tells me Armageddon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that was it.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I figured it was one of those.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You really never saw Armageddon?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		I have not seen it myself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my.
		Well, all right.
		I would imagine somebody like yourself would catch everything science fiction that came down the pike.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		I guess maybe I see too many real things to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, sure enough, a lot of what you have said tonight is almost like science fiction.
		I mean, honestly, you know, thinking we didn't go to the moon, secret space efforts, technology from humanity that was here before the current run of humanity, at that time, perhaps even trade and commerce with Mars, which, you know, was alive and well at that time, ancient civilizations.
		I mean, you've got to admit, you're a little bit out there on some fronts.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
		Absolutely.
		But I guess my sounding in my theoretical work on how the solar system works allows me a certain amount of latitude when I get to those other subjects.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I guess it does.
		It'll be interesting to see what the audience questions you about and how they feel about what you've said.
		So, you know, coming into the next hour, if it's okay with you, I'd like to begin to pick up some phone lines and let the audience have input.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		The audience always is amazing.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		I love some of the very original points they come up with many times.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's what this program is here for.
		All right, hold on.
		Professor James McCanney is my guest.
		And if you do have questions, comments, or whatever, here we are.
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art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bearing in mind that open lines for a guest or really any time are like a trip through a minefield.
		But that's about what we're going to engage in here with Professor McCanney.
		It'll be very interesting, your questions.
		And I have for him just one more.
unidentified		We'll be back in a moment.
unidentified		We'll be back in a moment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Professor McCanney, welcome back.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Heinrich from Riverside, California asks the million-dollar question.
		High art, he says, with the political climate of the 60s, if we did not go to the moon, the Russians and the Chinese would have jumped all over the failure of the U.S. to reach the moon since the whole world was watching and tracking.
		We would never have gotten away with it.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		There again, how often at that time did you hear news from Russia?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, not very often, but there was a Cold War.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		And that's what I'm saying is the Russian scientists that I've dealt with knew fully well, but they had no voice over here.
		So basically, from those high levels of people who knew the details, that information simply did not get to the U.S. press.
		I mean, the U.S. press was dominated.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That isn't what the gentleman is saying here.
		He's saying that given political climate in the 60s, where it was competitive, we hated each other's guts, hell, the world almost blew up.
		You know, it was a very difficult time.
		And surely the Russians had the ability to track and say, what a bunch of baloney.
		The U.S. didn't go to the moon, and here's how we know.
		And you'd think they'd wanted to screen that out as loud as they could in political conditions like that.
		You know, expose the U.S. as a fraud.
		That would have been a big thing.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		But who would have believed it in this country?
		There's a certain element of saying things.
		And of course, I run into that, say, for example, just on this show.
		I have to pick and choose very carefully how I say things or how I build them into the total picture of what I'm saying.
		Because that's the same with any international political situation.
		You have to estimate what that other group of people are going to believe.
		And if they're not going to believe what you're saying, then you're actually creating a bigger problem for yourself than you are by trying to tell what you believe to be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So their point of view was then that if they had exposed us as a fraud, people would have said, oh, baloney, the only fraud here is the Soviet Union, and it's a bunch of damn sour grapes.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We saw ourselves go to the moon, so that's what we would say.
		I see what you're saying.
		All right.
		Interesting answer.
		Here come the folks.
		First time caller line, you're on the air with Professor McKenney.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, this is Vinny from Avon Lake, Ohio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Yeah, I'm thrilled to talk.
		Now, a couple of my friends are real UFO guys.
		I'm not.
		But their big gripe is that we're sort of like being kept down on the reservation, as it were, vis-a-vis the moon.
		And my question is, if we really were interested in the moon, why didn't we ever put a satellite in orbit around it, a permanently, or more or less permanent one?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's kind of an interesting question, actually.
		Is there sufficient gravity on the moon, being one-sixth of ours, to support a satellite?
		I would suppose there would be at some particular distance from the moon.
		Surely you could orbit the moon, couldn't you?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		And it actually would be easier than orbiting Earth because it does not have the atmospheric drag problem we have here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then how come we haven't put something in orbit around the moon?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Why haven't we done a lot of things?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But why haven't we done that specifically?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		I cannot answer.
		I wish my opinion, Art and Vinny, is that, for example, we should have hundreds, if not thousands, of very similarly designed spacecraft that are crawling all over this solar system, in orbit, on planets, on moons.
		And, you know, when NASA designs a spacecraft, everyone is different.
		Everyone is particularly designed.
		And the cost is enormous.
		If, for example, the Voyagers, if we built 50 Voyagers, A spacecraft, the cost would be per spacecraft very minimal after you built the first one.
		So the question is, why don't we have a whole bunch of things on the moon, walking around and robots and orbiting the moon?
		And, you know, good question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, of course, the Apollo spacecraft did short orbits, but certainly an orbiting observational craft of some sort.
		Why haven't we done that on the Moon?
		That's really we've had short orbits, but why not leave something there permanently?
		In fact, why aren't there many things orbiting the moon?
		That's just a good question, period.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and I don't have an answer.
		Why have we not done a lot of things?
		That's a big question, Mark.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		I'm calling from Murfreesboro, Tennessee on WGNS, which is the Good Neighbor Station.
		All right.
		I'll call with one question, but I have a follow-up question to the one that Vinny just asked.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, you're going to have to kind of yell at us here.
unidentified		Okay, I'll speak up a little bit.
		Much better.
		My follow-up question to Vinny's question just now is our guest said that we couldn't get to the moon because of the Van Allen belt.
		Does that just affect people as opposed to we can still send robots and things to the moon?
		And then the original question I had is when or if we get those drills all around the equator to tap into the ionosphere, how will the electricity be distributed to the people and won't that create an industry that we ultimately still have to pay for to get our power?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well, hold one question at a time.
		Both good.
		The robots, humans versus robots.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And there again, we have radiation-hardened electronics.
		The thing with the electronics that was available, say, in the 60s and 70s, the gates on the transistors were much bigger and therefore not subject to radiation damage like the small high-speed gates of today.
		That's why we need radiation-hardened electronics today, because the gates are so small, one X-ray through there will damage the gate and cause the electronics to fail.
		But to answer her question, of course, it's easier to get robotics and machines through the Van Allen belts because of the fact that we can shield that.
		There's a lot less weight.
		There's a tremendous amount of weight due to the human support system that goes up there.
		So with any spacecraft, weight is the key factor.
		How much weight can you put up there and get to where you're going?
		So with a human spacecraft, you have very little payload, so to speak, other than the humans.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's jump to our second question.
		And the second question involved the distribution of the power that one might glean from a worldwide facility at the equator, drawing this power from the ionosphere, how it would get from point A to point B. Right.
		And wouldn't that create an industry in itself?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Well, it would create an industry while destroying another one, but yes, and we already do that.
		We get hydropower from Canada, which has been generated for free for decades with the big hydro dams up in Canada.
		We have our own Tennessee Valley Authority dams, which were built back in the 30s, still providing electricity for free, and that power is distributed.
		So it would be a very similar technique.
		I've looked at the situation in the United States of distributing Tesla technology power, and Florida turns out to be an extremely electrically active region.
		Also, your neck of the woods down there turns out to be quite electrically active.
		So those would be areas we could put powers right in our own country.
		My suggestion, of course, was to put them at the equator, and long-distance trunking of power is something we do all the time.
		So we would use the same technique.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So yes, it would be an industry, but not one of the magnitude that we have now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It would be distribution only.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		And we'd be replacing nuclear power reactors, which, by the way, have their own set of upcoming disaster scenarios with the solid fuel waste.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. McTanny.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Art and the professor.
		I think you both are very brilliant men.
		I actually had a comment first and then a question.
		My comment was I had been on the air a few weeks ago talking about the flag that was on the moon.
		And actually, a girlfriend of mine had, her grandmother was approached at a company in Milwaukee by the U.S. government to hand-sew the flag that would be going to the moon.
		Well, in her instructions, what she did is she actually hand-sewed her name in the corner of the flag.
		So when I called a couple weeks ago, the screener actually asked me, so, well, how do you know it's even there?
		And I didn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He's telling us that a flag had somebody's name sewn into it secretly.
unidentified		Right, before it was launched.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so raise the volume lesson so our guest can hear you.
unidentified		Right.
		What happened was she actually sewed her name into it, yes.
		Into the flag itself.
		Well, of course, they weren't happy about that, but they didn't have time for her to go back and hand-sew the flag again because of the launch.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so?
unidentified		So what I did is I actually researched a little bit and emailed the masternauts for the million-dollar question.
		Whose name is in the flag?
		And basically, there was eight different emails that I sent out, and only one returned.
		But the man answered the million-dollar question to the name that was sewed in there.
		So obviously, either he was one heck of a researcher or he was really there on the moon to see this flag.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You would think, though, that if it had been big enough to be noticeable, this signature, that it would not have been allowed.
unidentified		Well, and it wasn't.
		It was very small, and it was in the...
		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why would the astronaut have noticed it at all?
unidentified		Well, because he looked at the flag.
		And see, I wasn't sure, you know, had all the astronauts really looked at the flag, you know, because maybe they didn't even know that it was there.
		But, of course, you know, the people that put, you know, physically put it up there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just one other question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you know the flag actually went to the moon?
unidentified		Well, that was the whole thing.
unidentified		That's why I started emailing to make sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know, but that they saw that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It could have been on a Hollywood stage.
unidentified		Well, that's what I thought, too.
		I thought that maybe, hey, maybe for all I know, it could have been in NASA's headquarters.
		You know what I'm saying?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So why is that not possible?
unidentified		Well, truly, anything's possible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, sir.
		Listen, I appreciate the call, but I'm not sure that I get the point, because the point would have to include evidence that that particular flag made it to the moon.
		and then the realization obviously of uh...
		having seen the signature would mean something but if Well, to the Rockies, you're on the air with Professor McCanney.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hey, I've got a couple things here real quick, Mr. Bell Professor, and you don't have to have a background in physics like the professor to get your mind around this one.
unidentified		We've all been taught that space is an icy cold vacuum.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Now, the astronauts who are going to generate heat from the machinery on their suits on the moon in the radiant light of the sun, they're going to generate a lot of heat.
		Sitting on the moon in the lunar module, we're going to generate a lot of heat.
		Now, in a vacuum, heat has no medium of conductivity.
		See, heat is molecular vibration between mass, and a vacuum does not conduct heat.
		So the heat generation would have no medium of exchange.
		Now, NASA told us that they had cooling tubes in their suits.
		However, in a vacuum, air conditioning and refrigeration doesn't work because there's no medium to absorb the heat.
		Just think of a vacuum thermos.
		See, a vacuum is a perfect insulator for heat.
		Now, the command module facing the sun, the skin is going to heat up.
		As it rotates around, NASA told us that the icy, cold vacuum of space dissipated that heat.
		However, a vacuum does not conduct heat.
		A vacuum cannot have heat.
		There's no mass there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, in other words, you're saying, even if they had effectively had heat sinks.
unidentified		Where's the heat going to go?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where is the heat going to go?
unidentified		You're saying the stars, the shadows, and all of this.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But wouldn't the temperature differential affect that mass, nevertheless?
unidentified		The temperature of what?
		A vacuum has no temperature.
		And a vacuum will not conduct heat.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Professor?
unidentified		So the heat builds up.
unidentified		A sixth-grade physics book will disprove.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Cohner, hold on.
unidentified		Go ahead, I'm sorry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Professor?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Okay, the cooling of spacecraft is a whole science unto itself.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		And obviously, we have people in, like spacewalking in spacesuits who deal with the same problem.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He's saying there's no way to dissipate the heat in a vacuum.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Well, actually, there is.
		It's just very slow.
		It's radiant heat as opposed to conductive heat into, say, the atmosphere.
unidentified		Photon emissions are not going to displace the thermal heat of the spacesuit.
		See, the heat has nowhere to go.
		And NASA told us they had air conditioning packs on their back with cooling tubes.
		Now, if the cooling tubes filled with liquid absorbed the body heat, brought it up to their backpacks, where is that heat going to vent?
		There's no medium to absorb that heat.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And the answer to that, Professor, is what?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Well, like I say, these short-term stints, which they were involved in, and we also see that in spacewalks, you know, there's obviously you're not going to go out there for two weeks in a spacesuit.
		But those questions, there's a lot of questions that I consider peripheral.
		And you could argue about this back and forth quite a bit.
		What I want to do when I get to an argument, when I'm really talking about did we go or didn't we go, I want to get down to the nitty-gritty, the things that are not arguable, let's say.
unidentified		Well, it seems like the peripherals of the no stars and the multiple shadows can all be argued away.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		There are many arguments, yes.
unidentified		But if you take a 10-pound mass and heat it up to 100 degrees and put it in a vacuum, aside from photon emissions, there's no conductivity.
		That item is going to sit there and stay hot.
		Now, if they walk around on the moon and the surface of the moon is 100, 150 degrees, the only place their heat could go would be down through their shoes.
		Now, if you say, well, it was a short stint, then they got back into the lunar module, well, the lunar module will sit in there baking, too, with no air conditioning.
		Air conditioning doesn't work.
		As the lunar module sat there on the surface of the moon, baking in the sun with no atmosphere, the skin of that lunar module is going to heat up, heat up, heat up, and there's nowhere to vent that heat.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		You're right, in the sense that a regular spacecraft that's in orbit has to continually turn.
unidentified		Right.
		And when it turns to the far side of the sun, what happens to that heat?
		The vacuum doesn't absorb that heat.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, okay, then let me stop you both and ask you, the time the lunar module spent on the moon, is there a way to calculate if what you're saying is correct about there being no heat transfer, how long it could have stayed there without becoming uninhabitable for human beings?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And that, for me, would be something that, for me, it would be an entire study that I couldn't answer on the air right now.
		But I think it's very interesting.
		And another aspect of this whole thing that possibly people have already looked at that, possibly.
unidentified		Well, NASA's explanation is that they had an air conditioning unit on their backpack with coolant tubes that ran through their suit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		Now, where is that heat going to go?
		Unless they had CO2 on board that would vent through the heat exchanger.
		You see, a refrigerator wouldn't work on the moon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, this is very interesting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is there enough here, do you think, Professor, to make a case that they could not have been there?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		I think it warrants looking into and asking the questions, yeah.
		Yes, I do.
		But I don't have an answer for him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Do you understand how difficult it is for people like myself, and I watched our moon landings, I watched our first step on the moon live, and I never doubted for one second.
		Professor, do you understand how difficult it is for somebody like me to even begin to consider the idea that we never went, that it was all a ruse done in Hollywood or whatever?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm in the same boat as you.
		I watched all of that and bought it hookwine and sinker all at the same time.
		It was much later that I started coming to these conclusions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Other conclusions.
		All right, Professor, hold tight.
		From the high desert, I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast, Coast A. All we do when you're lonely for my way by your side, you've been alone, I know what you are.
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		Oh, yeah.
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		But my love is up to you anytime today.
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art bell ▲ ● ▼		It certainly is, and I am who I am, and, you know, people like Richard C. Hoagland, the passionate Richard C. Hoagland that so many love and hate, or probably James McCanny, too, tonight's guest.
		Unlike everybody else, and I kind of cherry-pick.
		Like the moon thing, for example.
		I do believe we went to the moon, but that may be some old, I don't know, prejudice of some sort.
unidentified		I just, I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maybe I'm just not sufficiently cynical or something.
		And I've become pretty cynical over the years about a lot of things, you know, finding out we subjected our own people to radiation, experimented on U.S. citizens, that kind of thing.
		That all threw me for a pretty good loop, but I'm not sure the loop was good enough to include we faked the whole thing to the moon.
		And so I tend to cherry-pick.
		On the other hand, the Tesla stuff that I heard tonight from Professor McCann just blew me away.
		I mean, absolutely blew me away.
		And I take a hard big bite out of that one.
		So I tend to cherry-pick.
		And with Richard, certainly agreement there's something on Mars.
		How it all got there and whether or not we're Martians, I don't know about that part.
		so unlike every other human being i tend to sit here as i do the program and i kind of charity or Once again, Professor James McKinney, so can you appreciate the fact that I kind of cherry-pick as we go along, Professor?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Well, here's what I suggest as a scientist, and I've suggested this to NASA, is let's do some observations of the moon.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		We have given NASA and these astronomers gigantic telescopes that are very capable of focusing and taking photographs of those lunar landing sites.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, now that is true, isn't it?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		And I have suggested that.
		Now, I would think that these guys would be jumping at the bit to show us how powerful their telescopes are and show us those lunar landing sites.
		And so let's do an experiment.
		Let's actually...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or the moon, rather?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		No, no, there is no.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No weather.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		No weather, so they should all be sitting there.
		And we would.
		See, that's a very difficult thing to fake because basically the telescope would be panning across the scene and you would do it at dusk.
		Now, I want to mention that back in the 90s, I proposed that NASA do this with the Hubble Space Telescope.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I believe they said it was too bright or something, didn't they?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		One day, some guy who didn't know better from NASA showed on the internet an entire picture of the full moon taken with the Hubble Space Telescope.
		And we all jumped up and down and screamed.
		And I think Richard Hogan will remember this: that we went and said, Hey, you guys said you couldn't take a picture of this little teeny patch of the moon because it was too bright.
		And here's the guy taking a picture of the entire full moon.
		So let's get the pictures.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So what did they say in response?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		They didn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They didn't.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		No response.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No response.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, in fact, the Hubble, you're sure, did take a picture of the full moon, the disk.
unidentified		Yes.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		And they, as usual, took it down very quickly.
		But a couple years ago, they put a new camera in the Hubble, and that was about the size of a small refrigerator, and they proceeded to take a picture of the planet Pluto and Charon, its moon.
		And with that pixel count on Pluto, I was able to calculate the resolution, the real resolution of the Hubble Space Telescope.
		It is very capable of resolving the lunar landing sites.
		And we have telescopes on Earth which have much more resolving power.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you've got a pretty good point there.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Oh, let's get some pictures.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm all for it.
		All right, first time caller line.
		You're on the air with Professor McKenney.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hey, Art.
unidentified		It's a real honor to be on your show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		Been a listener with the whole family.
unidentified		We love you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Happy to have you here.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Professor, you're killing me.
		some of the details seem like they're really missing on the theory of the people from Atlantis going up to space and Mars.
		I understand the concept that they seem to have been technologically advanced, but you never really gave any...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm with you, Caller.
		I have the same problem, Professor.
		Let's try it again.
		That was a very hard, unanswered question.
		You're an archaeologist.
		Where is any evidence of a civilization on Atlantis or anywhere else that ever became civilized to the spacefaring point?
		Where is any evidence of that?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Okay.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Let's look at the...
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just give us enough of it.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		And it's a logical discussion that, okay, go back to Atlantis, given that they did have mirrors, they did have glass technology, they had very highly advanced metalworking technology.
		If you take all of the legendary material and put it together, they would have had the ability to create the Tesla energy source, like we were talking about earlier.
		And that would be one route to get into space using an electromagnetic propulsion system.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, but the question is, where is there any evidence that such a civilization ever existed?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Well, for example, the Egyptian pyramids, which are said to have been a colony of Atlantis, the pyramids themselves were alleged to be related to electrical generation.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		So to answer your question, there is a series of deductions here that once you understand the principles of electromagnetic propulsion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, but to be specific about my question, I was asking about physical evidence, archaeological, physical evidence, and not deductions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so there is no archaeological physical evidence to back this up.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		No.
		No, to be very specific, no.
		But the other thing I contend is that these things have been found and have been basically tucked away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		I've got that.
		Okay.
		But the answer, the hard question, and it was a hard question, the answer is no.
		Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Professor McCanney.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yeah, hi, Art.
unidentified		How are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fine.
unidentified		I'm calling from Birmingham, Michigan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		I have a quick question for you.
		You talked about 100,000 Chinese people being in space within the next five years.
		I was just wondering what kind of effect that would have on global nuclear war.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or the possibility of war, you mean?
unidentified		Yeah, with mutually assured destruction doesn't exist anymore if there's 100,000 Chinese people.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, I never thought about that.
		All right.
		Actually, that's a fairly interesting question.
		Particularly with perhaps the way the Chinese think about things, if there are 100,000 Chinese in space or on the moon or in Mars, wherever, then there is no longer the absolute mutual assured destruction any longer, is there?
		Because the Chinese would continue.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you followed the politics lately, they've pretty much done away with that principle in trying to construct an anti-ballistic missile system.
		So what that's actually done is caused an acceleration in the arms race, which we were trying to reverse, of course, a number of years ago.
		But then the question is, do those people have the ability to live up there for 200 years till Earth becomes habitable again?
		You know, I don't know if that's an immediate conclusion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you said they would be learning to live in space.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Right, right.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		But how long would it take them to really live up there without support at all from Earth?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Professor McCanney.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, this is Kevin Colling from Tuscaloosa, Alabama.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, howdy.
unidentified		Howdy.
		My question for the professor is, first of all, it's a thrill to speak with you both.
		Thank you.
		Originally, the pyramids of Egypt had a gold tip on top, and gold is an extremely good conductor of electricity.
		Were the pyramids perhaps an ancient Tesla tower?
		He briefly touched on this earlier.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it was a gold capstone.
		And, you know, there's kind of an interesting story to go with that for both of you.
		I was in Egypt, and when I was there, they were really hot about replacing the gold capstone.
		They were going to put it back.
		And that project got suddenly stopped by someone somewhere real hard.
		And I just thought I'd throw that in.
unidentified		I'd like to activate it.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		That's interesting.
		And that's what I mean about archaeology.
		Anything that comes out of archaeology that deals with ancient technology is slam-dunked.
		And that's why when the one-caller asked, do I have positive archaeological evidence of Atlantis?
		No, but I believe that the higher levels of people in the world have been finding these things and basically hiding them one by one as they find them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I stood with Zahia Was, the director at that time at Giza, and he said they were going to do that, put the capstone back on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then I remember the sudden news article saying, oh, no, that got scotched.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Somebody Was crossing a line.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Apparently, so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would it be your contention, Doctor, that had they replaced that gold capstone, something very electrical would have begun to occur?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Very likely, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there you are, caller.
unidentified		Okay, well, I wanted to know what he thought the amplification process might have been to open up this energy conductor.
unidentified		Would it just be the gold tip on top, or would there have to be some form of battery inside of it?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		There is alleged to be some kind of underground ancient generator near the pyramids.
		And I've just heard allegation to you of that.
		But from my knowledge of the Tesla tower, see, the atmosphere by itself is a very poor conductor.
		And the amount of current flowing in the atmosphere due to that electric field is very small.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		So you have to literally do what I was telling you before to drill through the atmosphere and cause the current to then flow down.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		By itself, it's not going to cause a tremendous current.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gotcha.
		Welcome to the Rockies.
		You're on the air with Professor McKenney.
		Hi.
unidentified		Wonderful to be on with you, gentlemen.
		I, too, you know, came to my conclusion that we happen to not walk on the face of the moon reluctantly.
		I saw those machines take off myself from Cocoa Beach.
		I stood inside the compound.
		But as you look and review this evidence, it does become insensible.
		One of the statements I recently read was from Pete Conrad.
		He claimed that he walked, he and his partner, Wally Sharon, I think it was, walked away from the LM in a short distance.
		He called it a short distance, and then he couldn't see it anymore because of the curvature of the moon was so apparent that this 21, 23 foot high vessel disappeared on the horizon.
		And I calculated that out, and you'd have to walk a mile, a mile and a half for that to happen.
		And so I just don't believe it.
		It's another good example of the fact that they weren't there.
		The problem with cooling is another one of these problems.
		You'd have to exchange that heat in a tank of water or some kind of coolant, and there just aren't any ways that they did that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There's nothing to do with that.
		Look, I've got to admit, some of these arguments are quite compelling, and I don't know the answers to them, but I'm not driven over the threshold.
		Perhaps I've not studied it as much as the two of you, but I'm just not driven over this threshold.
unidentified		I've got one for you, Dennard Art, that may drive you over that.
		It drove me over it.
		If the three of us went together to the moon, we would bond.
		We would become the greatest of friends.
		And I've done kind of a lot of exploring by myself, and one time got separated from my diving buddies in a cave, and suddenly, you know, in a scuba suit, and suddenly I was alone down there.
		And that was different than being with my comrades and my friends.
		Now, the man, the command module pilot that went around the dark side of the moon did this repeatedly.
		And that man, six men in the world, six men have been on the other side of the moon, out of radio contact with the Earth, completely and totally alone in a way that no other men have ever been alone.
		They weren't changed by that.
		How were they not changed by that experience?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why would you think that experience would be as profound as you're suggesting?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, they were busy, they were given tasks.
unidentified		Well, they weren't busy, and then you're suddenly, you know, you're in a van-size object, perhaps even a pickup truck-size object, in the dark of space on the other side of the moon, and you're alone.
unidentified		I mean, in a way you've never, you're not, you don't have anything to do with that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, but I mean, what are you suggesting should have occurred?
unidentified		There was a sea change in those men's hearts.
		A kind of philosophical bent would have occurred.
		They would have talked about that experience.
		They would have talked about it to us.
		They would have told us what it was like.
		Something would have happened when the door of the spacecraft closed and the LM went down.
		The command, pilot, module, pilot staying up there would have changed.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		I think many of these things that we're talking about would become more topics of conversation if we knew for a fact they didn't go.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Look, we're coming to an end here, and I want you to have a chance to promote your book.
		You've been wonderful tonight.
		What would you like people to read from you as a first, I'm going to go read about, I want to read some James McKenney.
		What do you suggest?
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Well, what I've done for the show, Art, is a three-book special, and people can either order it on my webpage, and there's the secure ordering link there.
		Or a lot of times people like to order by mail.
		And the three books are the Planet X, Comets, and Earth Changes, which deals with the physics of the solar system, the electrical nature of the solar system.
		And the second book is the Atlantis to Tesla book, which describes the physics of Tesla and goes back into ancient societies and talks about the secret societies that have come forward.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think that's the one that would get me.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		And that is a very unusual book for me to write, but I had been talking about this and people said, you have to write this down.
		And in that book, I've also included the original paper from 1982 regarding my electromagnetic propulsion system, which is the basis of my own private space program right now.
		So at any rate, the three book sets is $35 including shipping and handling to the 50 states.
		And either on my webpage or people can send that, the $35 to JMCC P.O. Box 58 Navarre, Minnesota.
		Navarre is N-A-V-A-R-R-E, Minnesota, 55392.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My long experience says do that again slowly.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		People grabbed pencils and pens that will write upside down and stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so now they're ready to write.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		So go ahead.
		Once again, it's $35 for the three books, Planet X, Comets, and Earth Changes, Atlantis to Tesla, the Colverin Connection, and the pamphlet, which is Surviving Planet X Passage.
		And send that to JMCC, P.O. Box 58, Navar N A V A R R E Minnesota 55392.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, buddy.
		Listen, thank you for being here tonight.
		It has been an absolute pleasure having you on.
james mccanney ▲ ● ▼		Well, thank you, Art.
		It's always wonderful being with you.
		And we'll talk again.
		Let's talk in private a little bit about some of your questions, and we'll cover some of those areas, how to get through the Van Allen belts and my little demonstration, which I will be touring the Southwest in February.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, we're out of here.
		Thank you.
		And good night, Professor McKenney.
		All right, folks, listen to me very carefully.
		Beginning tomorrow night, it'll be all open lines and predictions for 2004.
		I expect you to do a little work on these, not just off the tip of your tongue, but consider thought on your predictions.
		This is going to be a very good year.
		I can feel it in my bones.
		It's going to be a really good prediction year.
		So you spend the time on it.
		We'll throw the lines open tomorrow night, Wednesday night, for what you think's going to happen in 2004.

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