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Dec. 27, 2003 - Art Bell

02:52:35

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Space Programs - Professor James McCanney

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	Music playing...
	From the high desert in the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening, good
	morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be across the cosmos and all the time zones
	involved.
	Here begins the weekend version of Coast to Coast AM.
	I'm Art Bell.
	Happy to be here.
	Hope that George took his time travel trip that he's back.
	But we'll find out.
	I haven't any news on that score.
	Or is it to be Sunday?
	I don't know.
	I'm all confused on the times.
	Anyway, a reminder.
	This is a big, big reminder.
	Beginning tomorrow night.
	Beginning of the program tomorrow night.
	We're gonna take predictions for the year 2004 now.
	Uh, this is, uh, actually it's gonna be two nights of complete open lines.
	That'll be tomorrow night and Wednesday night.
	My predictions are numbered.
	I will assign a number to each predictions.
	Each prediction, rather.
	And you will not be allowed to make predictions, incidentally, by email, fax, Even in person.
	I've had people try to stop me in person and record a prediction.
	We don't do it that way.
	All predictions are taken on the air.
	So there can be no question.
	The archives are imprinted.
	The predictions were made.
	There is no fudging.
	Later, each one assigned a number and then a year later we look at them.
	And the difference this year is I want quality predictions.
	Now how do we get quality predictions?
	It's all dependent on you.
	Beginning tomorrow night, between now and tomorrow night, at the very least, you must set aside a little bit of time and sort of allow your brain to go quiet.
	And try really hard to think of a major event that will occur to a country, a person, the world, whatever, in the year 2004.
	Now, we took predictions last year, which I will slowly reveal.
	We didn't really take that many.
	Batting average, actually, not as bad as I originally thought when I looked at them.
	Not quite as bad as I thought, but I want this year's average to go up, so that means spend a little time with it.
	Don't just dial.
	You know, really, really try.
	Predictions can be made by average people.
	As I'm going to fill you in with regard to a story I've got tonight in kind of a bone-chilling manner here in a moment.
	So, you can do it.
	It just requires a little concentration.
	So really think this one through.
	Go into kind of the best trance state that you can muster up.
	And beginning tomorrow night, we will take a number for posterity and the following year's list, your predictions.
	Let us take a quick look at world news.
	and I'll see you next time.
	In the biggest rebel attack since Saddam Hussein's capture, suicide bombers and assailants with mortars and grenade launchers blasted coalition military bases and the governor's office in the southern city Saturday, Karbala, killing 13, wounding at least 172.
	The death toll in Karbala included Six coalition soldiers, four Bulgarians, two Thais, six Iraqi police officers, and one civilian.
	Pretty bad news.
	There are charges coming from various quarters that the good news, whatever that is, is not making it out of Iraq.
	Just the bad news, and I'm sure that's true.
	I mean, people don't report on buildings that are not blown up.
	They report on ones that are blown up.
	It's much like our news here, I suppose, and that is mostly bad.
	That's what makes it into the news.
	Investigators tentatively traced the first U.S.
	cow with mad cow disease to Canada, which might help determine the scope of the outbreak.
	Might even limit the economic damage to the American beef industry.
	In addition, some calves have a quarantined herd of 400 that included a male offspring of the particular sick cow.
	That cow likely will be euthanized.
	The herd was at a farm in Sunnyside, Washington, which officials refused to name, I would presume for their sake.
	And now, I told you that occasionally predictions could be made.
	The news coming from Iran is really bad.
	Really, really bad.
	Kerman, Iran.
	Or is it Kerman?
	Entire blocks of buildings lay crushed and survivors lined up blanket-wrapped bodies in the street.
	After a devastating earthquake leveled nearly three quarters of the Iranian city of Bam on Friday, killing at least 5,000 people, and they really don't know how many yet, and injuring 30,000 others, the numbers could be much higher.
	The quake also destroyed much of Bam's historic landmark, a giant medieval fortress complex of towers, domes, and walls, all made of mud, brick, And so forth, overlooking a walled old city, parts of which date back 2,000 years.
	Television images showed the highest part of the fort, including its distinctive square tower, crumbled like a sandcastle down the side of the hill, though some walls still stood.
	Local officials said the death toll could reach up to 12,000, though the deputy governor of The problem, said an accurate count, was impossible, with many victims obviously still trapped under the rubble.
	Rescue operations are going slowly because of the darkness.
	This story was written by an Associated Press reporter, by the way.
	The disaster is far too huge for us to meet all of our needs, according to the president, but all institutions have been mobilized.
	They're getting international aid.
	The temperature there falling to 21 degrees, so survivors are huddling Pretty much by campfires next to their destroyed homes.
	At Baum's only cemetery, a crowd of about a thousand people wailed and beat their chests and heads over some 500 corpses that lay on the ground as a bulldozer dug a trench for mass graves.
	One man in his thirties said, quote, this is the apocalypse.
	There's nothing but devastation and debris.
	And then the Associated Press goes on to quote the body of this man who had the body of his daughter in his hands.
	And the Associated Press reporter says, quoting him, quote, Last night, before she, his daughter, went to sleep, she made me a drawing.
	And kissed me four times, he said of his daughter, Nazanin, whose body he held in his arms.
	When I asked, why four kisses?
	She said, maybe I won't see you again, Papa.
	Karimi told the Associated Press photographer as tears streamed down his face.
	So you see, clearly, His daughter may have had a premonition of the horrid earthquake that was about to occur in Iran, and that she may never see her father again.
	She didn't know, I guess, that it would be because she was dead.
	I just thought that absolutely worthy of a sort of re-quoting.
	It obviously impressed deeply the Associated Press reporter who wrote this story, and it impresses me as well.
	The following from Whitley Strieber's Unknown Country Earthquakes, like the recent ones in California and Iran, affect everyone on Earth, according to a geologist named Ross Stein.
	He says, you may not be able to feel them, but the entire planet is rung like a bell.
	Mountains have probably been pushed up about a foot or so.
	By the California earthquake.
	That's mountains everywhere, I guess he means.
	Eventually, quakes in California, he says, will carve Mexico's Baja Peninsula off from the rest of Mexico.
	Peter Anderson Quiltswell says, saying, quote, for an earthquake this size, every single sand grain on the planet dances to the music of those seismic waves.
	There's a five to ten percent chance that the recent quake will lead to the big one that Californians dread.
	Seismologist Susan Howe says the crust is getting mangled over a zone.
	As the plates move, they are sort of grinding California into ribbons.
	And Iran is like California.
	In that there are minor tremors there, nearly daily.
	The latest earthquake in Iran measured 6.7.
	So why were so many more people killed there than in California's 6.5?
	Well, one reason, the California quake hit, of course, in a small town while the epicenter of the Iran quake was centered on a highly populated city.
	And we all know the other reason, they make buildings of mud and brick.
	And in California we lost only one building, which was not up to California current earthquake standards.
	Well, you know the saucer that we suddenly discovered last week, which was an apparent relic of some member of the subgenius culture That had built it there for whatever reason really was there, really was a saucer, but it really was identified.
	Not all of them are.
	There are many UFO photos that have never been debunked or explained and continue to thoroughly baffle researchers.
	Incredible black and white photos of a UFO taken in 1950 by Oregon farmer Paul Trent, for example.
	His wife and father-in-law saw the craft as well.
	Well, some quotes researcher Jeremy Clark is saying, if authentic, they comprise significant evidence for the reality of intelligently controlled UFOs.
	In 1958, 47 crew members on board a Brazilian ship, that's 47 people, folks, saw UFO and photographer Amiro Baruna took pictures of it.
	What did they show?
	A disc about 50 feet in diameter, moving at about 600 miles an hour.
	Clark says, given the number of witnesses, the results of photo analysis, both military and civilian, and the need for debunkers to reinvent the incident to, quote, explain it, end quote, away, it's most unlikely that the photographs were hoaxed in any way at all.
	In Zanesville, Ohio, in 1966, Ralph Ditter took UFO photos of sightings that were made by law enforcement deputies Robert Schultz And Stanley Napala, I believe it is.
	These Polaroids, and they are Polaroids, so far there's absolutely no possibility that anybody tampered with the negatives at all.
	And the list goes on and on and on.
	I could read you so many reports that simply have no answer whatsoever.
	Physicist Freeman Dyson This is a very interesting story, because in a way, it's going to thoroughly point toward the guest we're going to have tonight, James McCanney.
	Oh, what a conversation that is going to be tonight.
	Physicist Freeman Dyson says that our scheme of Mars missions is excellent, but it has one fatal flaw, the fact that you are expecting NASA to do it.
	NASA has become timid.
	After their recent shuttle disaster, but private companies are apparently willing to take over the task.
	Sir Martin Rees, the British Royal Astronomer, thinks rich CEOs like Amazon.com's Jeff Bezos, is it, will finance trips to the Moon and Mars in the future, with NASA playing a supportive role.
	On Space.com, Robert Roy Britt quotes him as saying, I think the future of manned spaceflight will only brighten if it's done by people prepared to cut costs, take risks in a fashion that's seemingly unacceptable to the U.S.
	public in a NASA project.
	Bezos is rumored to have put together a team of experts to build a $30 million reusable spacecraft.
	PayPal CEO Elon Musk started a new company called SpaceX, which will send its reusable Falcon rocket into space next year, carrying a Department of Defense satellite.
	Isn't that interesting?
	Aree says, if humans venture back to the moon and even beyond, they may carry commercial insignia rather than national flags!
	So, the little patch could, I don't know, might say Coca-Cola or something, huh?
	Does it seem likely to you?
	Perhaps the pioneer settlers in space communities will live and even die in front of a worldwide audience.
	The ultimate in commercial reality TV.
	Huh.
	Talk about a reason to have a new reality show.
	The Moon.
	Talk about, I don't know, a hundred people trapped in a place they can't get away from and having to interact with each other?
	What would they do?
	Eliminate one person a week and shove them out the door?
	Anyway, will space radiation be a problem?
	We'll touch on this tonight for Astronauts on a Private Mission.
	Robert Zubrin says a New York Times article by Matthew Wald grossly overestimated the danger.
	And this is very interesting.
	The astronauts who went to the moon on Apollo 14 accumulated about 1,140 mRAM, the equivalent of about three years on Earth in their nine-day mission.
	The astronauts on Skylab 4, who spent 87 days in low Earth orbit, received a dose of about 17,800 mRAM, equivalent to a 50-year background dose here on Earth.
	That dose was near the threshold of radiation exposure that produces clinically measurable symptoms.
	Longer-term effects like increases in cancer rates have not been observed in adults exposed to doses at that level, but experts presume the effect does exist.
	By comparison, nuclear power plant workers are limited by law to exposures no greater than 5,000 millirem a year.
	In this country, they are generally held below 2,000.
	A round trip to Mars would be of a different order of magnitude.
	Indeed, Brookhaven puts the exposure at 130,000 milligram over two and a half years.
	That would be equivalent to almost 400 years of natural exposure.
	Now, there are some people who claim, as you know, that we never went to the moon.
	Wayne Green, for example.
	And if I read correctly tonight, with regard to James McCanney, he too believes we did not go.
	Anyway, we'll get into that, and that's really a whopper in the next hour.
	That and a lot of other things.
	I know he wants to talk a lot about private efforts in space, and so I thought this article would fit right in.
	At any rate, if you would like to do some open lines, that's what I'm up for.
	And again, reminding you that beginning tomorrow night, tomorrow night, ladies and gentlemen, we take predictions, official numbered predictions for the year 2004.
	And we will do that tomorrow night and Wednesday night, the last day of the year.
	West of the Rockies, you are on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	How are you doing tonight?
	I'm just fine.
	How are you?
	Good, good.
	And where are you?
	I'm calling from La Quinta, California.
	All right.
	You had Richard on last night.
	That's right.
	And he was talking about Martin.
	I always found it interesting how he never brought up, brings up the Soviet mission that they did back in 89, the Forbis 1 and Forbis 2.
	Oh, yes.
	Yes, and there was a lot of, I purchased a video in 94 With some footage about that and where it shows the shadow coming up towards the camera.
	Yeah, that's right.
	I've seen that footage and it's very impressive to me.
	Now, as you know, last night Richard and I just rocked and rolled the whole time about various aspects of all this.
	I am in basic agreement with him regarding the fact that I really do believe, how I have come to believe, with some certainty, That there was, at one time, life on Mars.
	Beyond that, and with regard to so much of what Richard has to say about NASA and the cabal and all the rest of it, I don't know.
	I'm not so sure about that.
	I am, of course, somewhat curious about the two-thirds and climbing number of missions that have failed to the Red Planet.
	I mean, there is something going on there.
	Maybe it's just really hard.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	Art?
	Yes.
	It's a pleasure to talk to you, man.
	And you, sir, where are you?
	Shepherdsville, Kentucky.
	All right, what's up?
	I was going to talk to you about this guy I worked with and just tell people about the power of speech and how when you say things in your life, it can affect your life.
	Well, for instance, I was talking to a guy I worked with, and he had a job working downtown.
	I told him he needed to quit his second job because it was a dangerous place to work.
	Yes.
	And he was like, well, what do you mean?
	I was like, well, someone could come in and shoot you and kill you, man.
	He's like, well, I won't let him in.
	I was like, well, what are you going to do if they get in?
	He said, I was going to hold my arm up.
	And I know I can't show you how he's holding his arm up, He held it just right out in front of him.
	He said, I'll do like that.
	If he's got a knife, he'll just catch it right in my arm.
	Okay, we have very little time.
	Okay, I'll make it real quick.
	What happened to him?
	A couple weeks later, he let some guy in to use the phone.
	The guy broke a knife out.
	He got 57 stitches right down his arm, right where he held it up.
	Well, you know what, sir?
	It may be that you experienced a precognitive, had a precognitive thought about what was going to happen to him.
	Just like that little girl who kissed her dad four times in Iran the other night.
	And he asked her why four kisses.
	And she said, because I may never see you again.
	Clearly, for a little child of, what, four years of age, that's precognitive.
	I'm sure she, thankfully, didn't know that it was going to be because she wasn't going to be here, because of what was about to happen.
	But somehow she knew.
	From somewhere deep inside her core, she knew.
	And she was just a little child, so she blurted it right out.
	This is Post.
	I keep hearing your concerns about my happiness.
	But all that thought you'd given me is conscience, I guess.
	If I were walking in your shoes, I wouldn't be worrying now.
	Are you and your friends worrying about me?
	I'm having lots of fun.
	Calving flowers on the wall.
	That don't bother me at all.
	Playing solitaire too long with the deck of 51 Smoking cigarettes and watching Captain Kangaroo
	Now don't tell me I've nothing to do Last night I dressed in tails pretending I was on a tank
	I've nothing to do.
	Last night I dressed in tails, pretending I was on the cat.
	Long as I can dream, it's hard to smell this swaggered bat.
	Long as I can dream it's hard to slow the swinger down To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code
	To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
	The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
	To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll free at 800-825-5033.
	From west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
	International callers may reach Art by calling your in-country Sprint Access number,
	pressing option 5, and dialing toll free, 800-893-0903.
	From coast to coast, and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM, with Art Bell.
	Those are the numbers we're about to rock right into open lines.
	Anything you've got on your mind is fair game.
	Again, reminding you, tomorrow night and then Wednesday night as well, we take numbered predictions for the year 2004.
	My expectations are very high!
	Into the dark of night we plunge!
	First on caller line, you're on the air.
	Hi!
	Uh, who am I calling, and is this me?
	Well, you know who you're calling, and if it isn't you, then who is it?
	A little nostalgia for you there, Art.
	Yes.
	I'm Larry, and I'm calling from Minnesota.
	Okay.
	Art, okay, I do not have a prediction tonight, but... Well, that's good, because I'm not taking them tonight.
	But I do have a request.
	Yeah?
	You're not gonna make the same mistake you made three years ago?
	Again, are you?
	And what would that be?
	You're going to listen to people who have predictions, particularly guests that you have on your show, who can foresee candidates winning elections?
	Well, I'll tell you, I only have one rule with predictions regarding candidates, or those already in office.
	And that rule is that you're not allowed to predict Their death, their assassination.
	Other than that, if people want to predict their winning or their losing, that's fine.
	But anything else gets me knocked on my door by guys in dark suits with lumps, you know, like guns.
	I appreciate that.
	You've never had second thoughts or third thoughts about what happened in 2000 with a couple of your guests predicting Bush coming in and then him slipping in by air?
	Well, but that was accurate.
	The point is, Art, people in this country have a terrible problem with confusing voting with betting.
	And they want to jump on the bandwagon of the winner, you know, because for too many people that's more important.
	So you think they hear the prediction and that drives the way people vote, is what you're suggesting, right?
	You think that never occurred to you?
	No.
	I mean, for example, Sean David Morton comes on the air and says, well, you know, Bush is going to squeak by, so people go out and vote for George Bush just because Sean David Morton said that.
	Now, I don't believe that for a second, and if it's true, it's pathetic.
	So, no, I mean, how many of you raise your hands, vote for a candidate because someone made a prediction?
	That guy, I saw him, that caller there, he raised his hand.
	That was it.
	Now, the only ones I don't allow, as I've said, are predictions of assassination.
	That will get you a visit every time I'm telling you.
	Hi, Mr. Bell.
	We're from the Secret Service, and then we have a long talk, and I say things like, hey, it's a talk show.
	That was a prediction.
	And they say things like, well, we understand that, but we have to follow up.
	And, uh, that's just the way it goes.
	And then they say a lot more.
	And so I don't do that.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Yes, all right.
	Yes.
	Yeah, hi.
	Long time listener.
	Long time.
	I enjoy your show quite, quite good.
	I listen on AM 1100 out of Cleveland.
	Yes, sir.
	And you're probably in a vehicle.
	Yes, I am.
	I'm a truck driver.
	A lot of us enjoy your show.
	Thank you.
	I was wondering, I've had a thing ever since I was a kid.
	I've been married a couple times, and both my ex-wives' families know that when I smell roses, people die.
	Yes, yes, it's kind of strange.
	Uh, uh, my grandmother dies.
	Uh, she is very religious.
	She gave me a rosary.
	Okay, somewhere in the nature of things, I lost a rosary.
	And, uh, I've been married a couple times.
	And, and both, both my ex-wives' families know that when I smell roses,
	people's diets get to the point if somebody's sick,
	they call me and ask me if I smell roses.
	I want to know if you've ever heard anything like that before.
	No, I haven't and certainly you are now eliminated as the origin of the phrase, wake up and smell the roses.
	Yeah, it was to the point my present wife, I had told her about this and we were very newlyweds and we were going across an Ohio road in the middle of winter and I smelled roses and I told her, when I told her this, I knew she thought I was lonely, you know, but she smelled roses, too.
	You didn't tell her you smelled roses all over her, did you?
	No, no, no.
	Roses in general.
	Yeah, roses in general.
	And so what happened?
	Well, we got home and then we had a call that our very close cousin of hers had passed away.
	I'm not, okay, well, I appreciate your call.
	I'm not sure that's a talent that I would want.
	Uh, nor that, uh, well, I suppose, uh, people would call you.
	Hey, smell any roses?
	Do I smell like roses?
	I don't know.
	These kinds of things, uh, exist all around us.
	Uh, human talents that, uh, I suppose we have, uh, a sort of a, uh, you know, I don't, I don't know, six cents, whatever you want to call it.
	There's been a million different, uh, phrases, uh, feminine intuition, truck driver, rose smelling, whatever.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air, hi.
	Hello?
	Going once?
	Hello?
	Yes, hello?
	Hey, how you doing?
	Okay, sir, where are you?
	All right, I'm out of Wilmington, Delaware.
	Wilmington, Delaware, all right.
	Yep, uh, I guess it's WDL 1150.
	Yes, sir.
	And I'm stuck on the midnight to eight shift, so I'd like to thank you for giving me something to listen to other than, uh, the banter of music.
	My dear sir, people are not stuck.
	On the midnight to eight shift.
	It is the preferable shift for those in the know.
	It works real good for me.
	I enjoy it, actually.
	But it's even better to have, you know, good stuff to listen to, like, you know, the variety of stuff you've been putting out here.
	All right.
	I'd just like to thank you for the new year here.
	You're very welcome, sir.
	I'm looking forward to the new year.
	Yeah, I am too, actually.
	I think it's going to be pretty interesting.
	I think, you know, people Need to keep their eyes open.
	Well, you're the first one, actually, that I've had the chance to ask, so I will ask you.
	I'm not asking you for a prediction, but do you think 2004 is going to be a really good year for things, or do you see a shadow hanging above it?
	You know, I think things are what you make out of it, you know?
	I think generally, I mean, you know, there's... Hey, throughout time there's always been terrible things going on, but You know, I think that there's a lot of good, too.
	I think people, if they maybe dwell a little more on that, maybe things would be a little more positive, that's all.
	I see.
	Alright, so, uh, make your own year, is what he's saying.
	And, um, I guess, I guess, to some degree, I... I think I agree with that, uh, that to some point you can make your own year.
	Then there are some things that are obviously out of your control.
	Very interesting.
	Make your own year.
	West of the Rockies, you are on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi, this is Alan in Colorado.
	Hey, Alan.
	Love the show.
	Thank you.
	I've got something for all the moon landing naysayers.
	All right, good.
	Well, one of them is coming on tonight.
	OK.
	Please, please go check out clavius.org after the crater CLAVIUS.
	And, you know, we're talking about America's greatest achievement, and you can go to Johnson or Kennedy Space Center, you can see the Saturn V, you can see the Lunar Lander mock-ups.
	I mean, you know, let's not trivialize this.
	This was a great thing.
	Well, I, too, believe we went to the moon.
	I have listened to the best arguments of the naysayers, although I may get some new ones tonight, you never know, from James McCanney.
	But I, too, think we went to the moon, so there you are.
	Okay, one more thing?
	Yes.
	I'm a believer in what's going on in Area 51, and what's interesting is... What do you think is going on?
	Mainly as far as the saucers, being there for 50 years, still working on them.
	There's a Hungarian company that's working on saucers now, and if we don't get these things out into the commercial sector, somebody else will.
	Somebody else is going to get Lunar tourism, and we're just going to miss out on a huge industry if we're not careful.
	Well, that's the other thing we're going to talk about tonight is private space efforts.
	Going to the moon, going to Mars, going into space, not with the help of NASA, or maybe with the help of NASA.
	In background somewhere, but private people going to space.
	CEOs, people with lots of money, and we've got lots of those in America, and a lot of them are beginning to turn their attention toward the space effort, the private space effort.
	It's an interesting concept.
	On the international line, you are on the air.
	Hi.
	Hello, Art.
	Hello.
	Yes, hello.
	Yes, sir.
	Pleasure to talk to you.
	And you, where are you?
	Yes, I'm in Halifax, Nova Scotia.
	All the way up in Nova Scotia.
	All right, welcome.
	Okay, I just have a comment.
	I read something on some astronauts that had circled the moon had noticed that it was lit up like a city and I was just thinking that if the aliens were looking at us, what better spot to That's the entire idea of a probe that would be put on the moon.
	As scientists, a lot of them believe that there would be what's called a von Neumann probe put on the moon to watch what's going on on Earth and that these probes would be self-replicating and they would go from moon to moon to moon to moon Uh, and plant themselves waiting for the emergence of life.
	Fascinating.
	Mind-boggling, isn't it?
	Um, it certainly would be if we found one, yes.
	Allah 2001 would not be something, uh, sure.
	It is, um, a reasonable idea.
	It's an Occam's Razor kind of thing.
	It would be The obvious thing to do if you wanted to watch Earth and human beings and our progress, you would put something on the moon, which would have a pretty doggone good view and be able to send a signal back to the maker.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi, Art.
	How's it going?
	All right, sir.
	Where are you?
	I am in Las Vegas.
	Las Vegas.
	All right.
	Yes, sir.
	All right.
	I got a question.
	Last night I was listening to another show and there was a lady claiming that Forty percent of the Alzheimer's deaths in this country are contributed to mad cow disease, and they have not detected it.
	And I don't know if you had heard anything about that or not.
	Well, it certainly is very detectable.
	I think that would be... I wouldn't agree with that figure.
	I can't authoritatively disagree with that figure.
	But, you know, mad cow in human beings is pretty diagnosable, as far as I know.
	Now, I don't think I buy it.
	Forty percent of what appears to be Alzheimer's, instead, mad cow disease of human form.
	No, I don't buy it.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Yeah, Arbel?
	Yes.
	How you doing?
	I'm doing alright, sir.
	Where are you?
	This is Adam in Eugene, Oregon.
	Okay, Adam.
	Yeah, ever since you've been having all these debates about the moon, I've been going to the library, just renting out videos and books, and I've found a lot of interesting stuff.
	Well, there is a lot of interesting stuff.
	What are you curious about?
	Whether we really went?
	I think we did.
	I was watching some video of Apollo 14, and did you know that they had the flag so close to the lunar module that when they left the moon, the rocket engines Pretty much just blew the flag right over?
	I think I remember something about that.
	And then, I don't know, I just don't think that our, I just can't imagine anybody like our government or NASA being stupid enough to pull off a hoax knowing that sometime in the future, we're going to end up going anyway?
	You know, honestly, I tend to agree with you.
	As I just told an earlier caller, I do, I really do think we went to the moon.
	But when you listen to the people who don't think we went to the moon, they make an awfully good case.
	I mean, you know, they put together a lot of facts, which, you know, if you sit and listen to them for a couple hours, it, you know, it seems plausible.
	But no, I think we went.
	I still think we went.
	I think we're in, too.
	There's just one picture that really bothers me, a big poster that I have.
	And you can see three different shadows going off in three different directions from, yeah, two different astronauts and a moon card.
	I'm familiar with the photograph you speak of.
	The Apollo 17?
	Yeah.
	I've seen it.
	I know.
	I know, but, you know, as NASA would say themselves, a trick of light and shadows.
	Um, if you want to put a case together, uh, saying, well, look, we've got James McCann coming up and he's going to talk about it.
	So, so we'll see why.
	And he's a pretty doggone bright guy.
	Let me make sure of that.
	Uh, you know, I'm pretty sure that he's got down here that he does not believe that we went to the moon pretty far down in the, uh, list of stuff that we were going to talk about, but, uh, it's in here someplace.
	I think.
	I hope I'm not attributing something to him that is not true.
	But we'll see.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi, Art.
	Hi.
	This is Jay from Cleveland, Ohio.
	Yes, Jay.
	You know, you're talking about the radiation exposure that the astronauts would be exposed to.
	That's right.
	I quoted quite a number of Pretty interesting numbers, quite a number of them, with regard to those who have gone to space and what they collected in Miller Rams, yes?
	Right.
	I was just wondering whether or not lead shielding would be possible.
	You know, like when you go in to get an x-ray, they cover you up with a lead suit, you know, to protect you.
	Well, there's one thing about lead.
	It's heavy.
	It's real heavy.
	And the cost per pound Is just astronomical to get things into space. That's our
	really big problem it costs Just think about how thick would that shielding have to be
	to actually give you some sort of protection I'm not an expert in that area. I don't know but I presume
	Fairly thick I mean what would you get?
	Put on you by the dentist or the x-ray tech is pretty heavy and it's just a little sort of cover over one little party
	body, right?
	So if you try to cover the interior, even part of the interior of a capsule in something like that, you're talking serious weight.
	Right.
	One more question.
	When I was a teenager, I used to work at the Cleveland Hopkins Airport and right next door to us there was a National Guard, an Army National Guard medevac unit.
	Right.
	This was back in the 73 or 74 and these guys were coming back from their two-week maneuvers and they were, for all intents and purposes, attacked by a UFO.
	It made the newspapers and that.
	I was just wondering if any of the guys that were involved with that or listening to the show and could call in and give more details on it?
	Well, if there are, let us collect them in this manner.
	You may contact me by email.
	Very reliable email sources.
	I am artbell at mindspring.com.
	That's A-R-T-B-E-L-L all lowercase at mindspring.com or artbell at A-O-L dot com.
	Both of those addresses remain current Despite the fact that I've had them so many years now that they are on every spam list in the world!
	That's what happens when you have public email addresses for that period of time.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hey, Art.
	How you doing?
	I'm alright, sir.
	Where are you?
	Alright.
	I'm on what they call the Grapevine.
	It's between Bakersfield, California and Santa Clarita.
	Oh, yes.
	It's up the mountain here.
	Well, I've only got about a minute before the end of this hour, so let's rock.
	Okay.
	Well, I got a quick prediction.
	No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, Oh, OK.
	OK, I'm sorry.
	I know people get prediction anxiety and they want to spit them out, but no, not till tomorrow night.
	Well, that's OK.
	But anyhow, Lisa, I'd like to make a comment on the show that you had when you interviewed John Lear.
	You may do that.
	Go right ahead.
	OK.
	That was a very, very interesting show that night.
	but one thing that got to me was when you asked him
	uh... with you were talking about we would do they were talking about you
	guys talking about great yes uh... you have him up
	whether or not at that uh... those great work
	if you can remember and uh... he did uh... he fit very
	kind of court he's like uh... yes they are and you know i want to say to him
	uh... uh... uh...
	i keep true and uh... i want to say to him what was said on one of my shows on star trek is uh... what do god need with
	a spaceship of space here.
	There you are.
	I'm sure that will have to do, I'm afraid, because we have got to go.
	James McCanney coming up in a moment.
	We're going to be talking about Americans.
	Then go to Mars!
	Private spacecraft going to the Moon and Mars.
	That's what we're going to be talking about from the high desert.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	I'm Mark Pettis.
	I'm a singer.
	And we never had a doubt I'm going with the night, playing in the shadows, running
	to the light, to the morning light.
	Run, run, night.
	The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
	To talk with Art Bell from east to the Rockies, call toll free at 800-825-5033.
	line is area code 775-727-1222. To talk with Art Bell from east to the Rockies, call toll-free
	at 800-825-5033. From west to the Rockies, call Art at 800-618-8255.
	International callers may reach Art Bell by calling your in-country Sprint Access
	number, pressing Option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-8253.
	From coast to coast, and worldwide on the Internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	That's what we do here, play in the shadows.
	Good morning, everybody.
	This is going to be very interesting.
	Professor James McCanney, MS is a physicist who has spent decades promoting his theoretical work showing that the solar system is ever-changing and electrically active.
	These theories have been confirmed with space probe data and proved that there are definite earth effects resulting from our sun's electrical activity.
	He's openly opposed NASA's view that outer space is electrically neutral.
	McCanny was a faculty member of the Physics and Mathematics Departments at Cornell University.
	If it had been a York, he's researched theoretical celestial mechanics and plasma physics for the layman.
	These are the studies of planetary motion and electrified gases in outer space.
	And he's presented his theories At the Los Alamos National Laboratories and American Geophysical Union, and along with a lot of other things, I was right.
	He does not believe that we went to the moon.
	This is going to be very interesting.
	Ladies and gentlemen, here is Professor James McCanney.
	James, welcome back to the show.
	Thank you for inviting me back.
	It's always wonderful to be a guest on your show.
	It's great to have you.
	We've got a lot on our plate tonight.
	Gee whiz, I read this really neat story in the first hour.
	I don't know if you heard any of the first hour.
	Unfortunately, I was not in a position to listen, unfortunately.
	All right.
	Well, it'll resonate with you anyway.
	It was all about private Space efforts and the story was suggesting that people who own big companies like PayPal CEO and so many others are getting the spark to want to go to space themselves and there's about to be a whole lot of private efforts.
	I've talked to a sort of a zillionaire friend of mine in Las Vegas who also is going down that very same road And so I thought it might be fun to talk about the U.S.
	space effort and where we're going from here, as in probably privately into space.
	What are your views on that?
	Well, absolutely.
	Much more efficient, much more direct approach to exactly what they want to do.
	If you take the frontrunners like Burt Rutan, Scaled Composites, with financier Paul Allen, they have a very direct mission, and that is to take people up on the ultimate rollercoaster ride, if you will.
	So they have a very direct purpose, and that has a much larger purpose, but they're going one step at a time, and unlike the government programs, especially in the U.S., Uh, which is multifunction and, uh, in some cases spread very thin.
	Plus you have the very heavy weight of corporate, um, uh, let's say money that doesn't go directly to the project, uh, which is overhead, let's call it.
	So there's a lot of factors which allow the private space investor to go right to the, uh, Heart of the matter, let's say.
	All right.
	Let's follow the money.
	That's always a good thing to do.
	I mean, where is the money in space?
	How is somebody going to make a profit by going to space?
	Well, let's put it this way.
	Let's look at what has happened in the U.S.
	space program.
	We spend $15 billion a year.
	95% of that does not go into space.
	That goes into salaries and facilities here on Earth.
	Right.
	Right there, let's take the 5% that's left over, not a whole lot goes into space.
	No.
	What I meant is, when you consider the world of privateers, people who might develop a rocket and launch it, either into low Earth orbit, on up into, I don't know, higher orbit, or even to the Moon or Mars, or you know, whatever a space effort privately might be, how is somebody going to make money?
	Well, the byproduct, of course, is tourism.
	Tourism.
	And the ultimate ride, which you can, and the numbers have all been worked out on this.
	The financial spreadsheets and the business plan, so to speak, have all been worked out, and it's a big, big business.
	Dennis Tito did it.
	Let me see.
	John Denver was going to do it, I believe.
	Wasn't he?
	Yes.
	John Denver, not many people know, back in the 90s, had already begun to work with the Russian space program to become the first civilian astronaut.
	Now, I remember when Dennis Tito went.
	There was blood in the water.
	I mean, NASA was just furious.
	FURIOUS!
	At the Russians.
	for agreeing to take Dennis Tito.
	I mean, they really just went berserk over that at NASA and Washington.
	Why?
	Well, my read on it is, and has been all along, that was the open sign of what really has been the policy all along, and that is to keep civilians out of space.
	Why?
	I don't know.
	I would think That ultimately, you know, it only makes sense that if you're going to have a manned space program where eventually you would have lots of people in space, you have to get lots of people in space to learn how to do it.
	You can't send up five people and then extrapolate that to a thousand people in space.
	It just does not work.
	So the programs that we've seen, let's look at it this way.
	The US has had less than 300 people in space in our 30, what, 42 years of manned space program.
	The Russians, conversely, have had, I would say, 20 to 30,000 people in space.
	Not many people realize that back in the 60s, Russia had a small space plane called Cosmos, They had 1,600 flights of that between 1962 and 1977.
	No, I'm one of the people who didn't know.
	And what did Cosmos do?
	It was a... Now, Art, I've taken the liberty of putting a bunch of pictures from the Russian, early Russian space program and some data on my homepage.
	All right.
	So people can go visit that.
	But basically, It looks exactly like what NASA is proposing today for what they call the mini shuttle.
	And so the point is that it's not difficult to go into space.
	It's not difficult to get lots of people into space.
	And why the US space program has gone the route it's gone with only 300 people in space for literally a trillion dollar price tag is beyond me.
	Alright, I'm on your webpage.
	I'm one of the ones who wants to see it.
	Where do I go to see Cosmos?
	At the very, very top there's a link.
	It just says coast-to-coast.
	It says something like seed-to-seed notes and you click on that link and you'll go to a sub-page and then there will be other links that can bring up the pictures.
	Actually, if you go down I've already clicked on that, so... Okay, the first one is an artist's conception of a shuttle-like craft that they decided not to build.
	I remember that.
	They built a copy of our shuttle that never flew, right?
	Right.
	Well, some people think that we built a copy of theirs.
	But what I want to see is the Cosmos.
	The Cosmos is the second picture.
	All right.
	That's what I want to see.
	And how many missions did you say they flew?
	Well, between 62 and 77, there were something like 1,600.
	And what exactly did this craft do?
	About 50% of them were manned.
	About 50% were unmanned.
	They would supply space stations.
	They would do reconnaissance missions.
	Oh, so it did roughly what the shuttle does.
	Yes, except it could be flown unmanned and then brought back.
	So 50% of them were manned, 50% of them were unmanned.
	I think I'm looking at this thing right now and it looks awfully small.
	Oh yes, it's just a pint-sized little thing.
	And was this, uh, this certainly wouldn't have launched from the ground.
	I presume it was launched from the underbelly of some large craft at altitude?
	No, no, this went vertically on top of a rocket.
	Okay.
	And it just sat there on top of the rocket, not like our shuttle where it sits on the side of a tank.
	Right.
	It sat literally on top of a rocket.
	They would blast it off.
	That was the space capsule, so to speak.
	Gotcha.
	And it would fly back in to the atmosphere.
	And so they had their first woman cosmonaut was 1962.
	And so they had a space program where they were launching literally daily from their two big launch sites out in the middle of the steppes.
	Daily, huh?
	Wow.
	Daily.
	That is incredible.
	You know, I just I didn't know that fact.
	I had no idea they were that active.
	Right.
	The next line down on that list of pictures is the Cosmos.
	There's two line items divided up.
	The 1962 to... OK, here's a launch schedule for Cosmos.
	And you can see the numbers they were launching back then.
	OK, that's going to take a moment to load.
	But so, well, right.
	I had no idea they had been that prolific in space.
	They probably, all in all, may have learned more than we learned with what we've done.
	Oh, absolutely.
	They learned how to live in space.
	And what the Russians did is once they developed something, they used it.
	They're still using the valves in the tanks they developed back in the 60s.
	And then they built on that knowledge.
	God, that's a lot of missions.
	You're absolutely right.
	Take a look at this schedule, folks.
	Holy mackerel.
	All right.
	So, where do you think our space program's going, James?
	We've got a president who's about to make a speech, apparently now postponed until the State of the Union, that will probably lay out some goal for the U.S., like, I don't know, going back to the moon, or more probably, I would think, to Mars.
	If it's going to be something everybody's going to jump up and down about, it's probably going to have to be Mars.
	I don't know how excited people get about going back to the moon.
	Oh, that's another topic you and I have to cover.
	To answer your immediate question, a presidential directive is not going to cause anything major to happen in the U.S.
	space program.
	No?
	No.
	Uh, we don't have... See, everything in the United States takes a lot of money, and what happens when the President is going to say something, all the aerospace companies lick their chops, because it means big money.
	And, you know, when is the last time you heard a CEO of an aerospace corporation say, I want to go into space?
	No.
	They want to buy a big expensive house in California and drive a Bentley.
	That's where our aerospace money goes.
	That's where our space program money goes.
	That's the American dream.
	Yeah.
	And so it doesn't go into space.
	You contrast that with the Chinese, for example, who have gone out and purchased Russian technology at a very low price, all the way up to docking mechanisms.
	And within a very short amount of time, they're sending people into space at a very low price because they don't have the big... The Chinese actually are threatening to go to the moon.
	Oh, they're going to be there.
	Yeah, they're going to the moon.
	They are.
	Just out of curiosity, James, Professor, really, I should call you.
	Why do you think the Chinese want to go to the moon?
	I mean, we have been there.
	want to go to the moon. I mean we have been there and sorry we'll get to that.
	We allegedly have been to the moon and it was nothing but basically a pile of
	rocks.
	Interesting, certainly an achievement to go there if we really have done it, but no driving reason to get back to the moon that we were made aware of, so why would the Chinese want to go?
	Well, the real logical reason for going to the moon is, first of all, it's a stepping stone.
	If you can't go to the moon and build a colony, How would you ever go to Mars?
	True.
	Just as an example, you would have to collect and orbit a good amount of space material and equipment to then go to Mars.
	If two-thirds of our Martian probes, which are unmanned, fail going to Mars... And they do.
	What is our probability of sending a first-time craft out there with people on it and have it succeed?
	It's a crashingly good point.
	I mean, these are all just logical conclusions.
	By the way, we spent some time on this last night.
	Do you have any thoughts on the probably now beginning to exceed two-thirds, considering the fate of the Beagle, probably going past two-thirds of the missions failing, some in very suspicious ways.
	What are your thoughts?
	Oh, there's no question in my mind, and there never has been a question, that there is sabotage going on in outer space.
	Well, let's clarify that.
	Sabotage in outer space, or sabotage for outer space missions done here on Earth?
	Well, my read on it is the United States security does not want The Japanese, the Europeans, or other people looking around Mars.
	Why not?
	My read on it is that they have, in fact, discovered the remnants of ancient civilizations there.
	We agree.
	I know you had a show last night with Richard and touched on these topics.
	I disagree with Richard on so much, but when it comes to the fact that there do appear to be clear traces of an ancient civilization there, the fact that there was atmosphere and water and, you know, that Mars was a viable planet, then there's every reason to jump to the possible conclusion that there's big life that was there, or is there underground, or who the heck knows, but something obviously occurred big on Mars.
	And you think we know that, and you think we want to keep that secret, right?
	Well, here is my read, and I've written this in my books, especially the Atlantis to Tesla book, that Atlantis, or at least some ancient civilization on Earth, met a terrible demise.
	And I think there's a lot of people out there that agree with that.
	But that there was space travel at least to Mars, which at the time was a vibrant water planet and in a much closer orbit to Earth as it passed around the solar system outside of our orbit.
	It came at one point much closer to Earth than it does now.
	And you believe ancient Earth bound civilization sent probes to Mars, not the other way around, but from here on Earth to Mars.
	Well, I can't say who developed first.
	But I believe there was travel and quite a vibrant advanced society that moved between the two planets.
	And I've developed, of course, this propulsion system, which I've talked about.
	And in the month of August, where Earth passes through our month of August, there's an electrical current sheet.
	And with an electromagnetic propulsion system, You can ride that current sheet out to Mars very easily.
	So it's basically a river of electrical current that you can ride out there with the proper propulsion system and then transfer between the two planets.
	But be that as it may, let's get back to the point.
	You know, for somebody who's considered to be a mainstream physicist, and certainly your credentials are pretty good ones, some of this stuff is pretty far out to be believing.
	Well, I'm also an archaeologist.
	Yes?
	And there is a great deal of indication in the archaeology around the world that the things that we see, the Egyptian pyramids, you know, things which trace back to before the Great Catastrophe, which was worldwide, that there was very advanced civilizations on this planet.
	And they were capable of drawing electricity out of the atmosphere like we should be doing and Powering their civilizations and also space travel.
	However, they did it Could be open to interpretation and question.
	Well again, this is pretty far out for somebody like yourself To believe all of this.
	I'm going to be very interested in finding out how you arrived at At these conclusions, I mean, certainly we can look at the Sphinx and the pyramids and we can argue about their date, but not too much.
	I mean, we know pretty much when they were built, and I don't know that there's a whole lot of evidence for a human civilization that goes back, say, hundreds of thousands of years, but I'm certainly willing to listen.
	And that we may have gone to Mars, maybe even done a little trade with Mars or something, interplanetary commerce.
	Why not?
	Think of the protests!
	From the high desert, in the night time where we belong, this is Coast to Coast AM.
	I'm Art Bell.
	Sweet dreams are made of this.
	Who am I to disagree?
	I travel the world and the seven seas.
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	Some of them want to get used by you.
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	Remember a Saturday.
	I know they say let it be.
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	In the course of a life that runs over and over again.
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	From coast to coast, and worldwide on the Internet, this is Coast to Coast AM, with Art Bell.
	It's a pleasure to meet with you in the middle of the night.
	This moment toward the end of the year, as we're kind of winding things up.
	up my guest is professor james mccanning and we've got all kinds of totally fascinating ground to
	cover so don't budge
	the alright professor as an archaeologist where would be uh...
	the evidence that would convince you that humans were uh... trudging around
	on the planet hundreds of thousands millions of years ago
	Oh.
	Possibly not quite that long ago, even.
	But here I want to clarify, Art, my logic is very similar to Richard Hoagland's, and we started talking about sabotaging missions to Mars.
	Let's do a little logic here.
	If these probes from other countries are being sabotaged, and if they're being sabotaged by the U.S., What are the few things, the very few things that would cause our intelligence agencies to sabotage those missions?
	If they thought they were just little microbes walking around or somebody was searching for water, nobody would care.
	So let's look at the things that would cause the intelligence agency to sabotage spacecraft.
	All right, but that for me, that's a big if because I don't That's why I'm using him.
	But okay, with that as an assumption, what could be big enough to cause them to do that?
	In my logic, now you put this together with the probability we have had very advanced civilizations on this planet previously, and then what is our nearest real life-supporting planet in this solar system, really the only other one, And if Mars, within certain recent past, had an ocean, water, and atmosphere, then it would be the likely candidate to travel to.
	Agreed.
	So all of these things, you put them together and unlike, say, my theoretical physics work, this is a series of probabilities and depends on certain assumptions And so, that's how I arrived at that conclusion, given that certain assumptions are true.
	Alright, well then, let me circle back to my first question.
	As an archaeologist, even if it's more recent vintage, where would be evidence indicating that man attained a high level of technological civilization at any point prior to his current known presence?
	Well, there again, I Believe right now, there's a good deal of archaeological work going on on planet Earth.
	That is very secretive.
	And the reason it's very secretive is because they're discovering technologies which were used in ancient times.
	Tesla type technologies, electromagnetic propulsion system technologies, things that I personally have worked on.
	And these are some of the key elements to really living in the universe, living in outer space and traveling in outer space.
	Now, let's slow up here.
	Things that you have worked on.
	You believe that you've worked on technology gleaned from archaeological discoveries here on Earth.
	No, I came about them kind of through the back door, through physics.
	For example, the electromagnetic propulsion system that I've displayed to the public in 1982.
	It's in my Atlantis to Tesla book.
	There's about 20 pages dedicated to that.
	And it's a method of traveling in outer space.
	Most people think of rocket engines where you heat up some type of a fuel and blow it out the back end of a nozzle.
	And that's the only type of propulsion which has really been given to the public in terms of what is available.
	And those are called inertial propulsion systems.
	In other words, you throw something one way and you go the other way.
	Yes, but we're trying to get to something that was archaeologically discovered here on Earth that you may have worked on or front door, back door, any other door.
	In other words, where did we get this information?
	Well, let's, for example, look at the Tesla type technology that I believe was used in Atlantis to draw energy out of the ionosphere to power their city.
	And once you, here's the thing, once you realize that these ancient technologies existed, they used glass.
	They had a good understanding and a working knowledge of glass, of metals, of electrical currents, of magnetic fields.
	And you put these together, the logical steps bring you to the electromagnetic propulsion.
	But I mean, how do we know this since we haven't discovered Atlantis?
	Well, there again, I believe that we have that it has been discovered in the South China Sea.
	The U.S.
	Navy since the 90s has been excavating there.
	And and much of which the recent discoveries in Iraq, for example, relate back to electrical devices, including batteries.
	There.
	I always find it interesting, for example, that the first batteries invented in modern times, for example, the Edison battery, was a carbon copy of the ancient seawater batteries.
	And Edison used a slightly different chemical combination in his in his alkaline liquid batteries.
	But it was basically the same principle as the seawater battery.
	Do you believe that he gleaned that concept from some archaeological digs?
	Some archaeological information.
	You do?
	Yes.
	And both him and Tesla, I am thoroughly convinced, in fact Tesla is known to have said that he had seen documents that came through his father to him who was in the archives in the Vatican.
	So that's where he got his first glimpse of these electromagnetic devices that he later perfected and developed into everything.
	Do you think that Tesla had a deal with somebody or an entity?
	In other words, do you believe that the U.S.
	government or governments have been uncovering this secretly, this archaeological data, and passing it to people like Nikola Tesla, and then allowing us to believe that that development came from Tesla, or Edison, or, you know, many of the great discoveries that we just talked about.
	I don't know exactly how those all came about, oddly enough, all at the same time.
	In history it's quite amazing.
	Like we had suddenly run into some giant library of information.
	Exactly, and my thought on it is the Vatican Library.
	Which contains a tremendous amount of ancient information that has never surfaced to the public.
	Well, we know that's darn well true.
	The Vatican does have that library.
	Father Malachi Martin and I discussed it many times.
	And of course, we did seize the work of Nikola Tesla upon his death.
	The government went rushing in and took all those documents away.
	We know that.
	So, I cannot dismiss this possibility.
	But that's quite a secret for a long period of time, isn't it?
	Well, exactly, and that's one thing I believe I've done, is finally discovered not only the basic principles of those scientific principles, but I've also discovered the source of energy, for example, for Tesla's power.
	And it turns out to be the electric field of the sun, which is produced when the sun puts out in excess current of positive charge.
	There are electrons and protons and other ions in the solar wind.
	But it turns out there's an excess, a little bit more positive charge, the negative charge.
	And when this blows out into the far distant regions of the solar system, it creates a large capacitor.
	And eventually some of that current returns to the sun, because you can't keep building up this charge forever.
	And that current comes back at least one place where we passed through in the month of August in the solar system.
	Well, this I buy into.
	There is clearly a source of energy as relates to the Earth.
	There's no question about it, there is.
	There are differentials that apparently can be tapped.
	Now, why do you think nobody has gone to work like crazy On developing this technology, why not?
	Well, we are strapped to an oil-based economy, and the people in charge of that, I mean, we have an oil president.
	And all of the industries and businesses that are built up around the world are based on this oil technology.
	If we start handing out energy for free, Obviously, there's going to be some economic impact here.
	All right.
	Well, let's try this, James.
	I've, for years, all the years I've been on the air, I've invited anybody with a machine which has more output than input to come and demonstrate its practical or even impractical application, even in the form of a toy.
	And I have yet to have, I've just not been taken up on it.
	And others who have been searching like mad Like Dr. Greer, who are so, so serious about this.
	Also, to be honest, this date can't say they've got it in their hands.
	And I'm about to embark on a tour here in February.
	I'll be giving some talks in the Southwest.
	You're part of the world over there.
	Yes.
	With demonstratable devices, both regarding Tesla The ability to draw energy out of the atmosphere.
	Well, all righty now.
	What kind of machines are we discussing here?
	As best you're able, describe to me what it is that you're going to be touring with.
	OK.
	One is a Tesla tower type of device, which is small, like you say.
	It's not the large type, which would... I have a picture on my home page.
	That's all right.
	Scale models are acceptable as long as they work.
	Right.
	But if you look right at the top of my homepage, if you scroll down just a little bit, I have the full scale picture of Tesla's original tower.
	And basically what that tower did was to he used a kind of a trigger type of DC device, which created a large spark.
	This is a standard oscillating circuit in in You know what, I really do want to see this, and I'm back on your home page again.
	I'm not sure how far back I'm going to have to go here.
	Just go down the little ways, right at the top should be that picture of the Tesla Tower.
	Well, okay, I'm back on your main page.
	Right.
	Should I be clicking again on the coast-to-coast notes?
	No, no, just scroll down, just grab the scroll bar and scroll down.
	Yes, yes.
	Short way and there's the picture.
	Oh, oh my God, there it is.
	The Tesla Tower, circa 1900.
	Right.
	Wow.
	And now what that device did was the following in that building that's at the bottom is the control electronics.
	Uh huh.
	And what that did is it used a basically a DC power source.
	Yes.
	To create a, there's two parts of it.
	There's an, there's a spark generator, which goes at approximately 40 Hertz.
	This is really interesting as hell, folks.
	This you want to see.
	This is Nikola Tesla's tower, and I've never seen a photograph of it before.
	This is a first for me.
	Fascinating.
	Look at the top of that thing.
	I am looking very carefully.
	And now here's what goes on there.
	There's two stages to the electronics in the building.
	There's a spark generator oscillator, which runs at around 40 cycles per second.
	Very low.
	Included in there is a large tube amplifier, which drives a spiked signal into the transformer that's in that building.
	Okay.
	And that's a high step-up transformer, probably a 50,000 to one ratio transformer.
	All right.
	And basically that's the principle of the Tesla coil.
	Now up the very center, you see a metal rod going up to the top.
	That's right.
	And what that does is that simply carries that voltage up to the very top and you see the pins sticking out all over.
	I do?
	That's to spread the effect of this rapidly changing voltage out to a broad area in the atmosphere.
	All right, I also see just below the top what appear to be, I think I can make out two parts of two very large coils just below the tower.
	Right.
	And that is the top end of the transformer.
	Now what this does is it takes a tremendous amount of power once this thing gets going.
	So you you're oscillating a voltage, let's say to a quarter million volts plus and a quarter million volts minus 40 times a second, right?
	What that does to the atmosphere now the atmosphere is a dipole or dielectric, which means the Molecules in the atmosphere are randomly oriented as they move around and bounce against each other.
	And they have small dipole moments, electrical dipole moments, a plus and a negative charge separated.
	Sure.
	And they're moving around at random.
	That creates a tremendous buffer between us and the ionosphere, which is very highly charged.
	So we have a big capacitor up to the ionosphere.
	And now what that tower does is it literally drills an electrical hole through the dielectric of the atmosphere.
	And the way you do that is you start flipping these molecules in unison up and down and up and down and up and down and above the tower.
	And as you go farther and farther up in the atmosphere, as this effect takes hold of the atmosphere farther and farther up.
	So you're drilling a hole up?
	Toward the ionosphere towards the ionosphere and once you hit the ionosphere. Yes, you have literally unlimited
	Electrical power because it's all going to drain down that one, too
	Now you can turn off your Tesla generator and you start collecting the current that's coming down
	But you need and that that path that path that you have established is then maintained on
	Its own another other words the energy coming from the ionosphere keeps that path open
	Is that correct?
	Correct.
	And this would work with any capacitor.
	If you took any capacitor and put two plates and a dielectric between it and you drilled a hole anywhere in that dielectric between the plates, all the current would flow through that one path that you created.
	So that's what he's doing in the atmosphere.
	And allowing incredible amounts of current to come down that path.
	Now, where is or was this tower located?
	Well, he built two.
	One was in New Jersey and then one was out near Colorado Springs.
	Do you know which one this was?
	I do not know.
	Looks more like Colorado country to me.
	That's what I think.
	It looks like the Colorado one.
	Absolutely.
	Do you know if this is still there?
	No, I don't know.
	They took care of these.
	They took care of these?
	Yeah.
	Um, this is really fascinating stuff.
	Go to the webpage, folks, costacosam.com, where you're used to going, and tonight's guest, James McKenna, click on his website, and when you get there, just go down the main page to the point where you see Nikola Tesla's tower, circa 1900.
	I have never in my life until now seen an actual photograph of Tesla's tower.
	This is really fascinating stuff, and again, It literally drilled a hole in an upward direction until it reached the ionosphere.
	And at that point, the ionospheric difference, the capacitive difference, like a giant capacitor, current, I guess, voltage and current flow began down toward this tower and then was self-sustaining.
	Do you know, offhand, James, what kind of energy was harnessed Once that was accomplished.
	Well, the vertical electric field is about three volts per meter.
	So figure out the number of meters.
	We're talking huge amounts of voltage here.
	And of course, there's two aspects to it.
	So we don't have records that show us what he actually measured?
	No, we do not have any written record of Tesla's own work.
	Uh, but, uh, it's, it's big.
	And there's two aspects to any electrical circuit.
	One is voltage.
	The other is current.
	That's right.
	Yes.
	And so there's, they're both huge.
	Let's say they're both huge.
	All right.
	Uh, Professor McKinney, hold on.
	This really is fascinating.
	You've got to get your computer and take a look.
	Now, what's that you've got?
	Needles and pins?
	What have you done?
	Why had you done watching that clock till you returned?
	Lighting that torch and watching it burn Now it begins, day after day
	This is my life Love you with a heart, never a day, yeah Love you with a
	heart, a tear that won't go away She had a bad guy, such a sin, yeah He's like me, oh why
	can't I get him?
	Love you with a heart, never a day, yeah Love you with a heart, a tear that won't go away
	I just can't, I'm so wishy that I just can't quit, yeah He's like me, oh why
	Can I get him?
	I got a lot of those heartaches, I got a lot of those tear drops, heartaches, tear drops,
	all the way up in my heartaches.
	To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at areacres.com.
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	This is absolutely fascinating.
	I've had my own hints that there's definitely power to be obtained from the atmosphere.
	I've just had little hints, you know.
	I've got this monster antenna up, and I've had some pretty jolting hints, actually, that something really is up with this.
	And seeing Tesla's tower is incredible.
	I mean, it's just incredible.
	I had no idea it was here.
	Definitely go up to the website, coastcoastam.com.
	Click on tonight's guest website.
	And then just scroll down on the main page just a little bit, and you'll bump right into a picture of Tesla's tower.
	Probably the one in Colorado, it's hard to say, but clearly this was a structure designed to tap free energy, and it was explained by Professor McCanney that you would literally, in effect, drill up through the atmosphere.
	Until you connected with the ionosphere, and when you did, a path would be born that would be then self-sustaining, delivering large amounts of both current and voltage to that tower.
	More in a moment.
	but stay right there uh... professor mckinney uh... if nicole a teslas
	papers Are no longer a matter of national security.
	I mean, they were seized a very long time ago, and certainly by now a review of his lab papers would have been thoroughly done.
	So if they are no longer a matter of national security, then why have they not yet, still not yet, been released?
	Well, my only read on it is, like I said earlier, we live in an oil-based economy, and the people running the show are oil people.
	And providing free electrical energy that could drive our cars, our buses, our trains, and pretty much everything else, would overnight change the economy of the world.
	It certainly would.
	I mean, what about the other side?
	The amount of greenhouse gases that are being emitted in the process of burning this oil, and you know the fact that the North Pole and South Pole are starting to melt on us, and Little things like that.
	The weather is changing, you know, these little matters that are scaring mankind right in the face.
	Not to mention we're burning the oxygen we need to breathe.
	You know, I mean, yeah, all of these things, you know, just, we cannot keep doing this.
	The thing people have asked me, wouldn't there be some problem with draining the ionosphere?
	And if you look at the total amount of power, now you have to understand, This is not a static amount of power up there.
	It's being continually replenished by the solar wind electric field which we live in, which is so enormous.
	Is there actually any way to demonstrate or even project how much power might be available?
	And yes, could we drain the ionosphere?
	You're in the middle of answering that one, but is there any way to even Imagine the amount of power that could be reasonably taken from the ionosphere without damage.
	There are very good examples.
	And for example, cyclonic storms like hurricanes.
	Of course, I've done a lot of weather work, and I've done shows with you on my weather work, which show that hurricanes, cyclonic storms are actually powered by the same power source.
	If you simply calculate the amount of energy in a hurricane, there's no way that the Earth's solar energy allotment from visible light coming in is sufficient to give you the amount of energy in that hurricane.
	Isn't there almost every reason to believe that hurricanes and I guess the Pacific side, we call them something else, but they're really here to cool our atmosphere.
	They provide a cooling effect.
	Well, they do, but the point is they're driven by the same power source that we're talking about here.
	They're driven from the ionospheric power source, and the thing I always point out is this energy is coming down to the surface of the Earth all the time.
	And the atmospheric scientists, who I follow all the time, are struggling with trying to understand what they call the current balance in the atmosphere.
	Right, but I guess what I'm asking is, these hurricanes are in some way important to the function of everything that's going on to our environment.
	Now, if we begin to tap power from the ionosphere, is it not possible there would be fewer or even no hurricanes suddenly?
	And that certainly might have a profound effect on things.
	Well, let's take an example of a hurricane like, say, Floyd.
	Big one.
	Alright.
	That hurricane has enough energy in it, if you could, say, convert it to one-to-one with, say, a 25% efficiency that we normally have converting energy from one source into electricity.
	There's enough energy there to run our country for about a year.
	Gotcha.
	So, we're talking vast, vast, and that's just a dribble of the energy we're talking about.
	Yes, but is the ionosphere directly feeding that hurricane with the amount of power, or is the earth dynamic really what's providing all the energy differential, you know, the hot and the cold air and the whole mass?
	In other words, it might get started from there, but certainly it is not directly and totally fed from there.
	Well, there's a lot of confluence of energy sources, let's say.
	But the major source of energy has to be that source of electrical current, because we see these elves and sprites above thunderstorms and hurricanes.
	We do indeed.
	And we know this energy is flowing down there, it's just that standard meteorological science has not caught up with that fact.
	Yes, but a simple energy calculation, something that every freshman physics student is taught to do, has not been done by our meteorological international community.
	Wouldn't you think that if Tesla had successfully tapped the energy from the ionosphere that he would have done measurements which would be included in his research papers?
	Oh, absolutely, because one thing you have to be able to do once you do this is control it.
	Oh yeah, indeed.
	And he could control it.
	He knew how to, it's kind of like, let's take a dam of water where we generate electricity.
	How big a hole do you drill in that dam to let the water through to run your generator to generate a certain amount of electricity?
	A controllable amount.
	A controllable amount, exactly.
	Yes.
	And so the size of the hole Drilled in the ionosphere by such a tower would determine the amount of voltage and current energy, in other words, that he received.
	Right.
	And another big factor which I've discovered, in addition to what Tesla did, is that in the temperate climates, the ionospheric belts move easterly and the ions, the positively charged ions, are up in the ionosphere.
	Around the equator, The ion belt up there is literally electrons, and it moves westerly.
	And that's far more efficient to tap into that one than it is the temperate climate belts which move easterly.
	Okay.
	So we would build these around the equator and then trunk the power up to the places where we use it.
	Yeah, and you think this technology is well understood and well hidden?
	Yes.
	Um, let's go ahead and tackle it.
	You do not believe the USA went to the moon in the years spanning 69 to 72, that the Apollo shots never went to the moon.
	Is that correct?
	That's correct.
	All right, let's have it.
	What's the best evidence that that didn't happen?
	I mean, if it didn't happen, then obviously a Hollywood production did.
	Right.
	And here's the situation because there, and of course, there have been many people on coast to coast talking about this issue.
	And they've talked about everything from the flag not waving to the fact that the lunar lander was not developed properly, that the lunar rover could not fit in the lunar lander.
	Those are all what I call extraneous, but good possible arguments.
	But they all lead down the road of Everybody arguing over it.
	The one argument that I use is that we did not have the know-how or the ability and still do not have the ability to get through the Van Allen belts.
	Very simple.
	We are surrounded by belts of relativistic particles, which is a very important component of our overall magnetic field.
	But these high energy electrons and protons moving around in counter-rotating belts around the earth, when you put a
	metal spacecraft in that, then all of a sudden you're sitting in an x-ray chamber.
	And I know from my own personal communication with the Russians
	that they understand this and they know that the Apollo craft
	never went through that Van Allen belt because they tried to do it
	back in the 60s and their cosmonauts came back very roasted.
	They did? Yes.
	Do you have evidence of that?
	Other than them telling me.
	Back, I've had quite a bit of conversation with certain Russian scientists.
	Yes?
	And they just kind of chuckle at the American public thinking we went to the moon.
	Now, imagine the Russians with their ability to go into space.
	We've already seen that.
	And they think that we claim we went to the moon is funny.
	Yeah, well, yeah.
	And now the Russians have heavy lift vehicles.
	They can put 165 tons into space in one shot.
	Whereas we can put about 15 tons into space.
	I am aware of their heavy vehicles, indeed.
	It's amazing.
	Let me read you something from a story that I had on a little earlier.
	I want to read this and I want to get your reaction to it.
	This just is in part.
	Will space radiation be a problem for astronauts on a private mission?
	Now, this is discussing the The private aspect of space.
	Robert Zubrin says, a New York Times article by Matthew Wald, grossly overestimated the danger.
	Wald wrote, quote, the astronauts who went to the moon on Apollo 14 accumulated about 1140 millirem, equivalent of about three years on Earth in their nine-day mission.
	The astronauts on Skylab 4 who spent 87 days in low Earth orbit received a dose of about 17,800 millirem equivalent to a 50-year background dose on Earth.
	That dose was near the threshold of radiation exposure that produces clinically measurable symptoms.
	Longer-term effects like Increases in cancer rates have not been observed in adults exposed to doses at that level, but experts presume the effects exist.
	Were they lying about these measurements?
	Okay, now I have seen that article that you just read.
	Yes.
	That is by medical doctors.
	Right.
	Who are also medical physicists.
	So they understand radiation dosage, etc.
	What they don't understand is The problem in the Van Allen Belt.
	Now, for example, one thing that NASA still doesn't understand, and remember, there's a couple things that they don't talk about.
	One is called shuttle glow.
	When they get the shuttle up into too high an orbit, it starts to glow.
	And they took the astronauts in the shuttle one time up to about a 500 mile orbit, and their eyebrows began to glow, and they brought them down right away.
	But the point being here, NASA doesn't understand what's going on here.
	I'm going to bring up another point that's related, and at one point, NASA had a program called the Tether Program.
	They let a tether, a carbon tether, out of the shuttle bay, and they were going to let it out a couple kilometers.
	I'm very well aware of this experiment.
	And they didn't get the thing out more than a couple hundred yards, and the electrical discharge that came down that tether nearly took the shuttle out.
	That's a fact.
	Right?
	You know that.
	That's fact, yes.
	And now this is... NASA still doesn't understand what's going on here.
	When you put a spacecraft out in those electrical fields that are associated with those high magnetic fields in the Van Allen belts, you discharge those local batteries.
	And not only do you get the cross-sectional radiation from the Van Allen belts, you also discharge that, increasing by a hundred or a thousand or a hundred thousand poles The amount of electrical activity that's hitting that spacecraft.
	So the guy that wrote that article and NASA still do not understand these principles.
	And they certainly didn't understand them back in 1969.
	And it is your contention the shuttle begins to glow in a higher orbit, say 500 miles due to?
	Now, I've seen all the NASA explanations.
	No, no, no.
	I'll ask you what yours is.
	My explanation is that it is discharging the local capacitor there in outer space.
	And basically, it's like the bug in the backyard bug killer.
	It's discharging a capacitor and causing the electrical current coming from that is very similar to the Tesla tower in that when you have a capacitor in it starts to discharge through a single point.
	That's where it's going to unload.
	And the same thing happens when you send a spacecraft into a non-uniform electric field like you have in the Van Allen Belt region.
	You are then going to cause an electrical discharge in that region, thusly increasing, like I say, 1000-fold, 100,000-fold the amount of electrical current hitting that spacecraft.
	And all of that is going to turn into x-rays.
	Now, these are relativistic particles.
	So the x-ray level is going to be extremely high.
	And so that article does not take that into account.
	Now, the other thing is the radiation badges that the Apollo astronauts wore.
	Yes.
	Was simply for alpha and beta particles.
	They did not know about the x-ray hazard at that time.
	So they have no x-ray badges on.
	So I know all about this.
	And the Apollo astronauts had no measurement of x-ray activity at the time.
	If the Apollo astronauts did not go to the moon, Professor, where did they go?
	I don't know.
	But it's amazing to me that none of the astronauts are allowed to talk about this.
	There are people who have asked them and they do not get an answer.
	You're right.
	I know.
	There is a sort of a strange silence from all the astronauts on some aspects of their missions.
	I've even had the pleasure of interviewing men who have walked on the moon and their answers to some questions are really, really, really puzzling.
	I remember interviewing Ed Mitchell right in the middle of a really wailing interview on what it was like to be on the moon.
	I asked Dr. Mitchell to relate to me what he thought about when he was on the moon.
	And you know what he told me?
	He told me he couldn't remember.
	Oh, no.
	He told me he couldn't remember what what he thought about while I was on the moon.
	I mean, that would be... I mean, it's a damnedest thing, damnedest answer you could get.
	And it's stuck with me ever since.
	Basically, that all of that to him That time on the moon was foggy.
	That's bizarre.
	It is.
	It is bizarre.
	It truly is bizarre.
	And you think, obviously, the reason for that is that we didn't go.
	Yeah.
	And here's what happened.
	My read on it, 1969, we're about ready to go to the moon and the word comes down.
	And I know for a fact the lunar lander was not ready.
	Because they were having trouble flying the thing and landing it.
	Because of just the dynamics of that clumsy vehicle.
	I do recall the experiments, the Earthbound experiments, and they had a horrible problem controlling it.
	But of course, the moon would have, what, one-sixth the gravity of Earth?
	So I guess they presumed it would be a different control trip, right?
	Well, and you're coming down in unknown terrain.
	It's not like, I mean, just a rock or something, but be that as it may, my read on it was, when they got to that point, the word came down.
	They said, you know, we're in the middle of the Cold War.
	It was the Kennedy directive to land on the moon before the end of the century.
	Nixon was the president, and the directive came down.
	It said, we're going to fake this one, but we're going to go on the next one.
	The next one came, and they weren't ready.
	Ultimately, they cancelled the last three, I believe, missions.
	And so, from your point of view then, it's true, we never went to the moon, not in those years anyway, right?
	Yes, and then they tore down the Saturn V complex.
	Which was the most amazing rocket complex to date.
	I mean, it far outshadowed anything the Russians have done to that point.
	Well, we did, in fact, do that.
	All right.
	Professor James McCanney is my guest.
	And as you can see, this is absolutely fascinating stuff.
	Certainly a bit of a counterpoint of view from a very well-educated man.
	He backs it up.
	up.
	Be it sight, sound, smell or touch, there's something inside that we need so much.
	Oh The sight of a touch, or the scent of a sand, or the strength of an oak roots deep in the ground.
	The wonder of flowers to be covered and then to burst up, through tarmac to the sun again.
	Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing.
	To lie in a meadow and hear the grass sing.
	To have all these things in our memories whole, and they use them to cover us.
	To come to find To come to find
	To come to find Yeah
	Rise Rise my sweet soul
	Take this place On this trip
	Just for me Rise
	Take a big roll Take my voice
	I'm a saint Wanna take a ride?
	To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
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	We're talking about all kinds of things tonight.
	From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	You can be sure we'll get phone lines open for Professor James McKenney.
	We're talking about all kinds of things tonight.
	Free energy, Van Allen belts, energy that actually would come from the ionosphere.
	Boy, do I buy into that.
	The fact we didn't go to the moon, according to Professor McKinney, and a lot more.
	Now, somebody that is going to the moon would be, or somebody, is the Chinese.
	and uh... there's quite a bit to be said about the chinese which will say in a
	few moments the chinese
	Let's talk for a second about the Chinese.
	Professor, you say that the Chinese will have a standing population in outer space of a hundred thousand people in five years.
	How are they going to manage that one?
	And if they do, in fact, achieve that, how will the United States suddenly have gone from the world leader in most things space connected to End of the line.
	I mean, that's pretty incredible.
	100,000 Chinese in space in five years.
	How do you imagine that could be?
	Well, first of all, let's look at the early Russian launches.
	We've seen 1,600 of the Cosmos launches and the U.S.
	military intelligence knows that those were cover launches for much bigger launches.
	That little space plane was just part of the cargo.
	On those 1600 launches between 62 and 77.
	So we know it's easy to get in space and get a lot of stuff in space.
	The Chinese have purchased the Russian rocket technology, the space capsule design, everything you saw in that one guy going around the Earth with the Chinese astronaut was Russian.
	They have recently purchased the docking mechanism from Russia.
	One of the hardest things to develop.
	Now, the next thing that the Chinese are going to learn is that they can replace the heavy lift rockets with a runway to orbit airplane.
	And as soon as they get there, they are minutes away from putting those hundred thousand people in space.
	And the way they'll do it is they'll have, they'll learn how to construct very large containers in space, Possibly using something the equivalent of the Goodyear blimp and hooking them together in large arrays, basically looking something like the 2001 space station that we all thought we would have by 2001 in this country.
	Well, you know, I've spoken to some pretty brilliant people in the past, Professor, who have suggested that the solid fuel Boosters, or the boosters that the shuttle has anyway, could be instead of dumped into the sea and retrieved, taken into orbit and turned into a virtual 2001 type space station with enormous room for people to live and work and even hotels and imagined all kinds of things that NASA could be doing with the current tanks.
	Is that a plausible concept?
	Well, first of all, the tanks drop off very early in the shuttle flight.
	Yes.
	So getting them up the rest of the way is a bit of a problem.
	Assuming, though.
	But if you design a system that, in fact, was designed to take those tanks up there.
	Yes.
	My read on it is that you don't leave the launch vehicle up there.
	You have a reusable launch vehicle.
	It goes from runway to lower orbit.
	And basically opens up and out comes the tank that you're going to leave up there.
	So you don't mix the launch vehicle with the thing you're going to leave in space.
	For example, you could take a standard 727 airframe, which there are lots of.
	You know which one that is with the two engines.
	Actually, the tanks that I was describing are compared favorably to about an aircraft of that size.
	Right.
	Exactly.
	Exactly.
	It's just that our current launch system drops those tanks off very early in the plate.
	Yes.
	But if you could get them into orbit, could you then... Oh, yes.
	Absolutely right.
	So you would design a launch system that just carried those all the way.
	So you're saying that this kind of doing this sort of thing in space is indeed possible.
	And you believe the Chinese are in the process of being on the way to doing it.
	They're going to learn very quickly.
	How to do all of these things that, for some reason in this country, have been bypassed.
	For example, our shuttle system, the Russians had that design also early in the, say, the 60s, like that picture on my homepage that shows the very first picture.
	And they nixed the idea.
	They said, no, it's not viable.
	And they used all the reasons that we're finding out the hard way.
	And they said they went to a heavy launch system because most of the launches that you put up there really don't have people on them.
	It has equipment.
	So why launch people, which are really unnecessary, when you're just trying to get equipment up there?
	So there's a certain rationale for that.
	But the Chinese are going to learn the principle.
	And now take, for example, let's just talk about the private space programs for a second.
	What Burt Rutan is doing, what a lot of other people are doing, they're going from a runway up to five miles.
	People don't understand that when you see that big tank on the shuttle or on the Saturn V booster back in the Apollo program, 95% of that fuel was spent in getting up to five miles at a low speed up, you know, up to maybe Gotcha.
	500 miles an hour, because that's the thick part of the atmosphere.
	I am aware of that.
	Then you unload that, and then the next stage is to move sideways, because you're really, at that point, out of the atmosphere.
	95% of it.
	And so now your goal is to get up to orbital speed, which is about 17,000 miles an hour.
	Well, I don't understand how all of this, how this story comes out.
	On the one hand, We have all kinds of secret technology.
	We are to imagine that there are many secrets in space that for whatever reason we don't want the world to know about.
	But gee, we've got the Chinese, we've got private industry people, we've got the Japanese are getting space happy.
	I mean, the Europeans are launching quite a bit.
	More and more of the world is getting set to go into space.
	Are we just, have we found out something so dire that the United States just said, we passed, we're not going, you know, and maybe we can't stop the Chinese, but once they get up there and figure out what it is, they won't want to tell their people either, or what?
	No, I think the Chinese have a whole different national directive.
	And I think it comes back to, I don't really understand the rationale.
	If I would have been in charge of the space program, Things would be a lot different.
	I'll bet.
	Alright, but just let me ask you, what do you think the Chinese, what do you think their goals are?
	What do you think the Chinese ultimately want to do?
	Populate space.
	They've got two billion people.
	Well, you've got a good point.
	And putting like my estimate of a hundred thousand people in space in five years.
	But where would you Where would you put them?
	I mean, you're right.
	They've got a lot of people.
	Two billion people.
	It's expensive right now to put people in space.
	Where would the Chinese put these people?
	Well, first of all, they would learn how to live in low Earth orbit, just like we should have been doing all along.
	A good example is when our astronauts go up to space.
	They don't, you know, except for a couple of very unique experiments, they don't learn how to live there.
	All of their food is in little packages, and it's all pre-cooked, and they just suck it out of a straw, and that's it.
	Well, I mean, what else are you going to do?
	There's no 7-Eleven in low Earth orbit.
	Exactly.
	But the Chinese are going to learn how to live and grow food and live there.
	You see what I mean?
	It's going to be a totally different concept.
	And I'll say this also.
	I know how to get through the Van Allen belts.
	There's a very simple method of doing it.
	The Chinese are going to figure it out.
	No.
	What?
	It's a little secret I'm keeping to myself.
	Oh, really?
	Really.
	Art, I will tell you in private someday.
	How's that?
	Why?
	Well, all right, then tell me why is it a secret?
	It's a secret for me because I'm waiting to see who figures out how to do this.
	And the reason I'm not going to announce it is because it's one of the critical aspects of, say, getting to the moon There may be an element of national security here, and so it's just something that I've decided to keep under my hat for the time being.
	Okay.
	Alright.
	That's fine.
	I will ask you in private.
	Anyway.
	Okay, so... But it's very simple.
	It's like baking a cake, and the Chinese are going to figure out how to do it.
	Gotcha.
	And they're going to be populating the moon And by the time we get there with our congressional funding and our current plans for moving in space, there's not going to be a square inch of it left.
	You think the Chinese will get to the moon and claim it as, say, its Chinese sovereign territory?
	Well, it's the old thing.
	We're in a stage right now in world history which is very similar to the discovery of the new world, and look at how the nations that were most powerful back then shook out.
	And they were doing, they made some very serious mistakes, some of which were becoming involved in petty little earth wars when they should have been going out and populating this globe.
	And some of them are in a very, Well, the Chinese really are aggressively pursuing space right now.
	It is amazing what they're doing.
	They announced they're going to the moon, I thought was incredible, and so you're saying they have designs on the moon?
	I believe so.
	And I think they're going to go there, and I think they're going to beat us.
	And we're just going to sit on our collective American duffs while the Chinese do all this?
	We're going to buy SUVs and drive around and go to shopping malls.
	You think so?
	Yeah.
	And the Russians?
	The Russians, I take it you feel, are so financially upside down right now that they can't be the ones to do it.
	They're simply going to help the Chinese.
	I don't know how that's going to shake out.
	Russia is kind of a funny place because they have done so much on so little.
	It is a funny place actually, yeah.
	And so I can't really say, I mean, I know a lot about the Russians, the Russian space program, but I am hesitant to predict where they're going.
	Unlike the Chinese, it's very clear where the Chinese are going.
	So the Chinese then will de facto actually claim the moon simply by occupying it.
	That's about it.
	And to do this, of course, they're going to have to have technology that we now don't know about publicly, correct?
	Correct.
	But very simple technology.
	The thing that the Russians learned very early and are still making great use of is very simple things.
	When NASA needed some kind of a pen to write in space, they spent a tremendous amount of money and now they have a ballpoint pen that'll work in outer space.
	The Russians use a pencil.
	When we develop a valve, we have triple redundancy, it can be controlled from Houston, from the ground, and all this electronics and computer controls and the astronaut types in a command on a keyboard and the valve opens.
	The Russians walk up to a valve and turn it.
	That really is quite true.
	I particularly like the pen thing.
	We did spend a lot of money to get a pen that would write in space, and they used a pencil.
	You know, and that is the kind of thing, and the Russians are using today the big kerosene boosters.
	I can't remember the movie it was, but it was funnier than hell.
	Maybe you can help me out here.
	There was a movie in which we had a mission, and we were trying to save the world, and we docked the shuttle at the Russian space station, And in fact, that's what the guy was doing.
	The Russian cosmonaut was so funny.
	He was kicking his machines, turning valves, and this is the way we do it here.
	You know, this is the way a Russian gets it done.
	And what you just said reminded me of that.
	Do you recall that movie?
	No, I did not see it.
	It was probably one of the, where Bruce Willis saves the world with it.
	Yeah, it was.
	It was one of those movies.
	I can't recall the title.
	Somebody will come up with it.
	But that Russian was classic.
	And so they've taken that different an approach to space.
	Oh, absolutely.
	Yeah.
	And they could, their big rocket development program.
	And of course, there's a limit to heavy lift rockets, and they pretty much hit it.
	With their big rockets today.
	And we have literally no rocket ability.
	One of the points of that Cosmos spacecraft, that little mini shuttle, one of the points I wanted to make about that is that is what NASA now is proposing.
	More our replacement to the bigger shuttle, but we don't have any rockets to launch it.
	And just sort of as a political side note, what is going to cause the United States to politically sit on its duff while we see the Chinese beginning to build in moon craters or whatever?
	I don't know.
	I mean, I am baffled by NASA and what it is not doing and Where all the money is going, and even if they were doing a secret space program, we would see bits and pieces of that somehow.
	Do you or do you not believe there is a secret space program?
	Oh, there absolutely is, but I don't see it doing much either.
	What form of secret space program do you believe there to be?
	Well, something I've been involved in way back into the 80s were the propulsion systems.
	And we have certain things on the drawing board, but all require fundamental physics improvements in like, say, the handling of fission or fusion systems, of dealing with large scale systems in space.
	I mean, none of them Could be built today.
	Let's put it that way.
	I mean, you can draw a nice picture, artist rendition, laser sails or ramjet fusion technology, but literally none of them are feasible with today's technology.
	So I don't know, you know, I don't see that part of what I've seen in the secret world of space I don't see that as producing anything real.
	Well, what kind of world would it be now if we didn't have a pen which you could write with upside down?
	Or Teflon.
	By the way, the movie was Armageddon.
	Oh, okay.
	My beautiful wife tells me Armageddon.
	Yeah, that was it.
	You really never saw Armageddon?
	I have not seen it myself.
	Well, alright.
	I would imagine somebody like yourself would catch everything science fiction that came down the pike.
	I guess maybe I see too many real things, too.
	Well, sure enough, a lot of what you have said tonight is almost like science fiction.
	I mean, honestly, you know, thinking we didn't go to the moon, Secret space efforts, technology from humanity that was here before the current run of humanity.
	At that time, perhaps even trade and commerce with Mars, which, you know, was alive and well at that time.
	Ancient civilizations.
	I mean, you've got to admit, you're a little bit out there on some fronts.
	Oh, absolutely.
	Absolutely.
	But I guess my sounding in my theoretical work on how the solar system works Allows me a certain amount of latitude when I get to those other subjects.
	Well, I guess it does.
	It'll be interesting to see what the audience questions you about and how they feel about what you've said.
	So, you know, coming into the next hour, if it's okay with you, I'd like to begin to pick up some phone lines and let the audience have input.
	The audience always is amazing.
	I love the Some of the very original points they come up with many times.
	Well, that's what this program is here for.
	All right, hold on.
	Professor James McCanney is my guest.
	And if you do have questions, comments, or whatever, here we are.
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	From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
	Bearing in mind that open lines for a guest or really any time are like a trip through a minefield.
	But that's about what we're going to engage in here with Professor McKinney.
	It'll be very interesting, your questions.
	And I have for him just one more.
	We'll be back in a moment.
	Professor McHanny, welcome back.
	Thank you.
	Heinrich from Riverside, California asks the Million Dollar Question.
	High Artie says, with the political climate of the 60s, if we did not go to the moon, the Russians and the Chinese would have jumped all over the failure of the U.S.
	to reach the moon.
	Since the whole world was watching and tracking, we would never have gotten away with it.
	There again, how often at that time did you hear news from Russia?
	Well, not very often, but there was a Cold War.
	That's what I'm saying, is the Russian scientists that I dealt with knew fully well, but they had no voice over here.
	So, basically, from those high levels of people who knew the details, that information simply did not get to the U.S.
	press.
	I mean, the U.S.
	press was dominating.
	The gentleman is saying here, he's saying that the given political climate in the 60s, where it was competitive, we hated each other's guts, hell, the world almost blew up.
	You know, it was a very difficult time and surely the Russians had the ability to track and say, what a bunch of baloney!
	The U.S.
	didn't go to the moon and here's how we know.
	And you'd think they wanted to scream that out as loud as they could in political conditions like that.
	You know, expose the U.S.
	as a fraud, that would have been a big thing.
	But who would have believed it?
	In this country?
	There's a certain element of saying things, and of course, I run onto that, say for example, just on this show.
	I have to pick and choose very carefully how I say things or how I Build them into the total picture of what I'm saying.
	Because, and of course, that's the same with any international political situation.
	You have to estimate what that other group of people are going to believe.
	And if they're not going to believe what you're saying, then you're actually creating a bigger problem for yourself.
	Then you are right trying to tell what you believe.
	So their point of view was then that if they had exposed us as a fraud, people would have said, oh baloney, the only fraud here is the Soviet Union and it's a bunch of damn sour grapes.
	We saw ourselves go to the moon.
	So that's what we would say.
	I see what you're saying.
	All right.
	Interesting answer.
	Here come the folks.
	First time caller line, you're on the air with Professor McKenney.
	Hello.
	Hi, this is Vinnie from Avon Lake, Ohio.
	Hello.
	I'm thrilled to talk.
	Now, a couple of my friends are real UFO guys.
	I'm not.
	But their big gripe is that we're sort of like being kept down on the reservation, as it were, vis-a-vis the moon.
	And my question is, If we really were interested in the moon, why didn't we ever put a satellite in orbit around it, a permanently, or more or less, permanent one?
	Well, that's kind of an interesting question, actually.
	Is there sufficient gravity on the moon, being one-sixth of ours, to support a satellite?
	I would suppose there would be at some particular distance from the moon.
	Surely you could orbit the moon, couldn't you?
	Oh, absolutely.
	And it actually would be easier than orbiting Earth because it does not have the atmospheric drag problem we have here.
	Well, then how come we haven't put something in orbit around the moon?
	It's a good... Why haven't we done a lot of things?
	But why haven't we done that specifically?
	I cannot answer... I wish... My opinion, Art and Vinnie, is that, for example, we should have hundreds, if not thousands, A very similarly designed spacecraft that are crawling all over this solar system, in orbit, on planets, on moons.
	And, you know, when NASA designs a spacecraft, every one is different, every one is particularly designed, and the cost is enormous.
	If, for example, the Voyagers, if we built 50 Voyagers, a spacecraft, the cost would be, for a spacecraft, very minimal, after you built the first one.
	So the question is, why don't we have a whole bunch of things on the moon, walking around and robots and, you know, orbiting the moon?
	And, you know, good question.
	Well, of course, the Apollo spacecraft did short orbits, but certainly an orbiting Observational craft of some sort.
	Why haven't we done that on the moon?
	That's really... We've had short orbits, but why not leave something there permanently?
	In fact, why aren't there many things orbiting the moon?
	That's just a good question, period.
	And I don't have an answer.
	Why have we not done a lot of things?
	That's a big question mark.
	All right.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	I'm calling from Murfreesboro, Tennessee on WGNS, which is the Good Neighbor Station.
	All right.
	I called with one question, but I have a follow-up question to the one that Vinny just asked.
	All right, you're going to have to kind of yell at us here.
	Okay, I'll speak up a little bit.
	Much better.
	My follow-up question to Vinny's question just now is, Our guest said that we couldn't get to the moon because of the Van Allen Belt.
	Yes.
	Does that just affect people as opposed to we can still send robots and things to the moon?
	And then the original question I had is, when or if we get those drills all around the equator to tap into the ionosphere, how will the electricity be distributed to the people and won't that create An industry that we ultimately still have to pay for to get our power.
	All right, well, hold one question at a time.
	Both good.
	The robots, humans versus robots.
	Great.
	And there again, we have radiation-hardened electronics.
	The thing with the electronics that was available, say, in the 60s and 70s, the gates on the transistors were much bigger.
	And therefore not subject to radiation damage like the small high speed gates of today.
	That's why we need radiation hardened electronics today because the gates are so small, one x-ray through there will damage the gate and cause the electronics to fail.
	But to answer her question, of course, it's easier to get robotics and machines through the Van Allen belts because of the fact that we can There's a tremendous amount of weight due to the human support system that goes up there.
	Yes.
	So with any spacecraft, weight is the key factor.
	How much weight can you put up there and get to where you're going?
	So with a human spacecraft, you have a very little payload, so to speak, other than the humans.
	Alright, let's jump to her second question.
	And the second question involved the distribution of the power that one might glean from a worldwide facility at the equator drawing this power from the ionosphere.
	How it would get from point A to point B, and would that create an industry in itself?
	Well, it would create an industry while destroying another one, but yes, and we already do that.
	We get hydropower from Canada Which has been generated for free for decades with the big hydro dams up in Canada, we have our own Tennessee Valley Authority dams, which were built back in the 30s, still providing electricity for free, and that power is distributed.
	So it'd be a very similar technique.
	I've looked at the situation in the United States of distributing Tesla technology Power and Florida turns out to be an extremely electrically active region.
	Also, your neck of the woods down there turns out to be quite electrically active.
	So those would be areas we could put towers right in our own country.
	My suggestion, of course, was to put them at the equator and long distance trunking of power is something we do all the time.
	So we would use the same technique.
	So yes, it would be an industry, but not one of the magnitude that we have now.
	It would be distribution only.
	Correct.
	And we'd be replacing nuclear power reactors, which, by the way, have their own set of upcoming disaster scenarios with the solid fuel waste.
	All right.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. McKinney.
	Hello.
	Hello, Art and the professor.
	I think you both are very brilliant men.
	I actually had a comment first and then a question.
	My comment was I had been on the air a few weeks ago talking about the flag that was on the moon and actually a girlfriend of mine had, her grandmother was approached at a company in Milwaukee by the U.S.
	government to hand sew the flag that would be going to the moon.
	Well, in her instructions what she did is she actually hand sewed her name in the corner of the flag.
	So when I called A couple weeks ago, the screener actually asked me, well, how do you know it's even there?
	And I didn't.
	So what I did is... Please have him speak up a bit.
	All right.
	He's telling us that a flag had somebody's name sewn into it secretly.
	Right.
	Before it was launched.
	And so raise the volume level so our guests can hear you.
	Right.
	What happened was she actually sewed her name into the flag itself.
	Well, of course, they weren't happy about that, but they didn't have time for her to go back and hand sew the flag again because of the launch.
	And so?
	So what I did is I actually researched a little bit and emailed the masternod for the million dollar question, whose name is in the flag?
	Um, and basically there was eight different emails that I sent out and only one returned.
	Uh, but the man answered the million dollar question to the name that was sold in there.
	Um, so obviously either he was one heck of a researcher or he, you know, he was really there on the moon to see this flag.
	Um, you would think though that if it had been big enough, uh, big enough to be noticeable, this signature that it would not have been allowed.
	Well, and it wasn't.
	It was very small and it was in the bottom.
	Well, then why would the astronaut have... I presume you're talking about an astronaut, right?
	Exactly.
	Why would the astronaut have noticed it at all?
	Well, because he looked at the flag.
	And see, I wasn't sure, you know, had all the astronauts really looked at the flag, you know, because maybe they didn't even know that it was there.
	But of course, you know, the people that put, you know, physically put it up there.
	Just one other question.
	How do you know the flag actually went to the moon?
	Well, that was the whole thing.
	That's why I started emailing to make sure.
	I know that they saw that.
	It could have been on a Hollywood stage.
	Well, that's what I thought, too.
	I thought that maybe, hey, for all I know, it could have been in NASA's headquarters.
	You know what I'm saying?
	So why is that not possible?
	Well, and truly, anything's possible.
	All right, sir.
	Listen, I appreciate the call, but I'm not sure that I get the point, because the point would have to include evidence that that particular flag made it to the moon.
	And then the realization, obviously, of having seen the signature would mean something, but if... Anyway.
	Well, sir, the Rockies, you're on the air with Professor McKinney.
	Hello.
	Hey, I've got a couple things here real quick, Mr. Bell Professor, and you don't have to have a background in physics like the professor to get your mind around this one.
	We've all been taught that space is an icy cold vacuum.
	Yes.
	The astronauts are going to generate heat from the machinery on their suits on the moon in the radiant light of the sun.
	They're going to generate a lot of heat.
	Sitting on the moon in the lunar module, we're going to generate a lot of heat.
	Now, in a vacuum, heat has no medium of conductivity.
	See, heat is molecular vibration between mass, and a vacuum does not conduct heat.
	So the heat generation would have no medium of exchange.
	Now, NASA told us that they had cooling tubes in their suits.
	However, in a vacuum, air conditioning and refrigeration doesn't work because there's no medium to absorb the heat.
	Just think of a vacuum thermos.
	See?
	A vacuum is a perfect insulator for heat.
	Now, the command module facing the Sun, the skin is going to heat up.
	As it rotates around, NASA told us that the icy cold vacuum of space dissipated that heat.
	However, a vacuum does not conduct heat.
	A vacuum cannot have heat.
	There's no mass there.
	Well, in other words, you're saying even if they had effectively had heat sinks... Where's the heat gonna go?
	Where's the heat gonna go?
	You're saying it will not... The stars, the shadows, and all of this.
	But wouldn't the temperature differential affect that mass, nevertheless?
	The temperature of what?
	A vacuum has no temperature.
	And a vacuum will not conduct heat.
	Professor?
	So the heat builds up.
	A sixth grade physics book will disprove... Okay, Kohler, hold on a sec.
	Professor?
	Okay, the cooling of spacecraft is a whole science unto itself, and obviously we have people in, like spacewalking in spacesuits, who deal with the same problem.
	He's saying there's no way to dissipate the heat in a vacuum.
	Well, actually there is.
	It's just very slow.
	It's radiant heat as opposed to conductive heat into, say, the atmosphere.
	Well, photon emissions are not going to displace the thermal shield on the space suit.
	See, the heat has nowhere to go.
	And NASA told us they had air conditioning packs on their back with cooling tubes.
	Now, if the cooling tubes filled with liquid absorb the body heat, Brought it up to their backpacks.
	Where is that heat going to vent?
	There's no medium to absorb that heat.
	And the answer to that, Professor, is what?
	Well, like I say, these short term stints, which they were involved in, and we also see that in spacewalks, you know, there's obviously you're not going to go out there for two weeks in a spacesuit.
	But those questions, there's a lot of questions that I consider peripheral.
	And you could argue about this back and forth quite a bit.
	What I want to do when I get to an argument, when I'm really talking about did we go or didn't we go, I want to get down to the nitty-gritty, the things that are not arguable, let's say.
	Well, it seems like the peripherals of the no stars and the multiple shadows can all be argued away.
	There are many arguments, yes.
	But if you take a 10-pound mass and heat it up to 100 degrees and put it in a vacuum, aside from photon emissions, There's no conductivity.
	That item is going to sit there and stay hot.
	Now, if they walk around on the moon, and the surface of the moon is 100, 150 degrees, the only place their heat could go would be down through their shoes.
	Now, if you say, well, it was a short stint, then they got back into the lunar module, well, the lunar module will sit in there baking, too, with no air conditioning.
	Air conditioning doesn't work.
	Whereas the lunar module sat there on the surface of the moon, Baking in the sun with no atmosphere, the skin of that lunar module is going to heat up, heat up, heat up, and there's no way to bend that heat.
	You're right, in the sense that a regular spacecraft that's in orbit, it has to continually turn.
	Right, and when it turns to the far side of the sun, what happens to that heat?
	The vacuum doesn't absorb that heat.
	Well, okay, then let me stop you both and ask you, the time the lunar module spent on the moon, is there a way to calculate if what you're saying is correct about there being no heat transfer?
	How long it could have stayed there without becoming uninhabitable for human beings?
	Right.
	And that, for me, would be something that, for me, would be an entire study that I couldn't answer on the air right now.
	But I think it's very interesting.
	And another aspect of this whole thing that possibly people have already looked at that, possibly... Well, NASA's explanation is that they had an air conditioning unit on their backpack with coolant tubes that ran through their Right.
	Now, where is that heat going to go?
	Unless they had CO2 on board that would vent to the heat exchanger?
	You see, a refrigerator wouldn't work on the moon.
	Well, this is very interesting.
	Is there enough here, do you think, Professor, to make a case that they could not have been there?
	I think it warrants looking into and asking the questions, yeah.
	Yes, I do.
	But I don't have an answer for you.
	Yes.
	Do you understand how difficult it is for people like myself, and I watched our moon landings, I watched our first step on the moon live, and I never doubted for one second.
	Professor, do you understand how difficult it is for somebody like me to even begin to consider the idea that we never went, that it was all a ruse done in Hollywood or whatever?
	Well, I'm in the same boat as you.
	I watched all of that and bought it hook, line, and sinker all at the same time.
	It was much later that I started coming to these conclusions.
	Other conclusions.
	All right, Professor.
	Hold tight.
	From the high desert, I'm Art Bell and this is Coast to Coastal.
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	It certainly is, and I am who I am. And, you know, people like Richard C. Hoagland, the
	passionate richardson over so many love and hate Or probably James McCanney, too, tonight's guest.
	Unlike everybody else.
	And I kind of cherry-pick.
	Like the moon thing, for example.
	I do believe we went to the moon, but that may be some old... I don't know.
	Prejudice of some sort.
	I just... I don't know.
	Maybe I'm just not sufficiently cynical or something, and I've become pretty cynical over the years about a lot of things, you know, finding out we subjected our own people to radiation, experimented on U.S.
	citizens, that kind of thing.
	That all threw me for a pretty good loop, but I'm not sure the loop was good enough to include we faked the whole thing to the moon.
	And so I tend to cherry pick.
	On the other hand, the Tesla stuff that I heard tonight from Professor McCann just blew me away.
	I mean, absolutely blew me away.
	And I take a hard big bite out of that one.
	So I tend to cherry pick.
	And with Richard, certainly agreement there's something on Mars.
	How it all got there and whether or not we're Martians, I don't know about that part.
	So, unlike every other human being, I tend to sit here as I do the program and I kind of cherry pick.
	Sound of a jet taking off.
	Once again, Professor James McKenney.
	So, can you appreciate the fact that I kind of cherry-pick as we go along, Professor?
	Well, here's what I suggest as a scientist, and I've suggested this to NASA, is let's do some observations of the Moon.
	We have given NASA and these astronomers gigantic telescopes that are very capable of focusing and taking photographs of those lunar landing sites.
	Well, now that is true, isn't it?
	And I have suggested that.
	Now, I would think that these guys would be jumping at the bit to show us how powerful their telescopes are and show us those lunar landing sites.
	And so, let's do an experiment.
	Actually?
	That's not like the wind and the rain has eroded any evidence of our being on Mars, huh?
	Or the moon, rather.
	No, no, there is not.
	No weather.
	No weather, so they should all be sitting there, and we would... See, that's a very difficult thing to fake, because basically the telescope would be panning across the scene, and you would do it at dusk.
	Now, I want to mention that back in the 90s, I proposed that NASA do this with the Hubble Space Telescope, Well, I believe they said it was too bright or something, didn't they?
	The moon was too bright to look at.
	One day, some guy who didn't know better, from NASA, showed on the internet an entire picture of the full moon taken with the Hubble Space Telescope.
	And we all jumped up and down and screamed, and I imagine, I think Richard Hoagland will remember this, That we went and said, hey, you guys said you couldn't take a picture of this little teeny patch of the moon because it was too bright, and here's the guy taking a picture of the entire full moon.
	Yeah.
	So let's get the pictures.
	So what did they say in response?
	They didn't.
	They didn't?
	No response.
	No response.
	So, in fact, the Hubble, you're sure, did take a picture of the full moon, the disk?
	Yes.
	Huh.
	And they, as usual, took it down very quickly.
	But a couple years ago, they put a new camera in the Hubble.
	And it was about the size of a small refrigerator.
	And they proceeded to take a picture of the planet Pluto and Charon, its moon.
	And with that pixel count on Pluto, I was able to calculate the resolution, the real resolution of the Hubble Space Telescope.
	Right.
	It is very capable of resolving the lunar landing sites.
	And we have telescopes on Earth which have much more resolving power.
	Well, you've got a pretty good point there.
	Oh, let's get some pictures!
	I'm all for it.
	Alright, first time caller line, you're on the air with Professor McKinney.
	Hello.
	Hey, Art.
	It's a real honor to be on your show.
	Thank you.
	I've been a listener with the whole family.
	We love you.
	Happy to have you here.
	Yeah, Professor, you're killing me.
	Some of the details are They seem like they're really missing on the theory of the people from Atlantis going up to space and Mars.
	I understand the concept that they seem to have been technologically advanced, but you never really gave any... where did you get the archaeological facts?
	I'm with you, caller.
	I have the same problem.
	Professor, let's try it again.
	That was a very hard, unanswered question.
	You're an archaeologist.
	Where is any evidence of a civilization on Atlantis or anywhere else that ever became civilized to the space-faring point?
	Where is any evidence of that?
	Okay, let's look at the... In fact, my book, Atlantis to Tesla, The Colburn Connection, goes into this entire discussion.
	Just give us enough of it to answer.
	It's a logical discussion that, okay, go back to Atlantis, given that they did have mirrors, they did have glass technology, they had very highly advanced metalworking technology, if you take all of the legendary material and put it together, they would have had the ability to create the Tesla energy source, like we were talking about earlier, And that would be one route to get into space using an electromagnetic propulsion system.
	Yes, but the question is, where is there any evidence that such a civilization ever existed?
	Well, for example, the Egyptian pyramids, which are said to have been a colony of Atlantis, the pyramids themselves were alleged to be electrical, related to electrical generation.
	So, to answer your question, There is a series of deductions here that, once you understand the principles of electromagnetic propulsion... Okay, but to be specific about my question, I was asking about physical evidence, archaeological physical evidence, and not deductions.
	So there is no archaeological physical evidence to back this up?
	No.
	No, to be very specific, no.
	But the other thing I contend is that These things have been found and have been basically tucked away.
	Right.
	I've got that.
	Okay.
	But the answer to the hard question, and it was a hard question, the answer is no.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Professor McKinney.
	Hello.
	Yeah.
	Hi, Art.
	How are you?
	I'm fine.
	I'm calling from Birmingham, Michigan.
	Okay.
	I have a quick question for you.
	You talked about 100,000 Chinese people being in space within the next five years.
	I was just wondering what kind of effect that would have on, you know, global nuclear war.
	Or the possibility of war, you mean?
	Yeah, with mutually assured destruction doesn't exist anymore if there's 100,000 Chinese people.
	Actually, that's a fairly interesting question.
	If, particularly with perhaps the way the Chinese think about things, if there are a hundred thousand Chinese in space, or on the moon, or on Mars, wherever, then there is no longer the absolute mutual assured destruction any longer, is there?
	Because the Chinese would continue.
	Well, if you followed the politics lately, they've pretty much done away with that principle in trying to construct a anti-ballistic missile system. So what that's actually done
	is caused an acceleration in the arms race, which we were trying to reverse, of course,
	a number of years ago. But then the question is, do those people have the ability to live
	up there for 200 years until Earth becomes habitable again? I don't know if that's an
	immediate conclusion.
	Well, you said they would be learning to live in space.
	Right.
	But how long would it take them to really live up there without support at all from Earth?
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Professor McKinney.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Hi.
	Hi, this is Kevin calling from Tuscaloosa, Alabama.
	Well, howdy.
	Howdy.
	My question for the professor is, first of all, it's a thrill to speak with you both.
	Thank you.
	Originally, the pyramids of Egypt had a gold tip on top, and gold is an extremely good conductor of electricity.
	Were the pyramids perhaps an ancient Tesla Tower?
	He briefly touched on this earlier.
	Well, it was a gold capstone, and you know, it was kind of an interesting story to go with that for both of you.
	I was in Egypt, and when I was there, they were really hot about replacing the gold capstone.
	They were going to put it back.
	And that project got suddenly stopped by someone somewhere real hard, and I just thought I'd throw that in.
	That's interesting.
	And that's what I mean about archaeology.
	Anything that comes out of archaeology that deals with ancient technology is slam dunked.
	And that's why when the one caller asked, do I have positive archaeological evidence of Atlantis, no, but I believe that the The higher levels of people in the world have been finding these things and basically hiding them one by one as they find them.
	Yeah, I stood with Zahi Awass, the director at that time at Giza, and he said they were going to do that.
	It got thrown back on.
	Then I remember the Sudden News article saying, oh no, that got scotched.
	Somebody was crossing a line.
	Apparently so.
	Would it be your contention, Doctor, that had they replaced that gold capstone, something very electrical would have begun to occur?
	Very likely, yes.
	Well, there you are, Caller!
	Okay, I wanted to know what he thought the amplification process might have been to open up this energy conductor.
	Would it just be the gold tip on top?
	Or would there have to be some form of battery inside of the pyramid?
	There is alleged to be some kind of underground ancient generator near the pyramids.
	Okay.
	Thank you very much.
	Okay.
	Thank you.
	But from my knowledge of the Tesla Tower, the atmosphere by itself is a very poor conductor.
	And the amount of current flowing in the atmosphere due to that electric field is very small.
	Right.
	So you have to literally do what I was telling you before, to drill through the atmosphere and cause the current to then flow down.
	All right.
	By itself, it's not going to cause a tremendous current.
	Gotcha.
	Well, to the Rockies, you're on the air with Professor McKinney.
	Hi.
	Wonderful to be on with you, gentlemen.
	I too, you know, came to my conclusion that we have to not walk on the face of the moon reluctantly.
	I saw those machines are Take off myself, you know, from Cocoa Beach.
	I stood inside the compound.
	But as you look and review this evidence, it does become insensible.
	One of the statements I recently read was from Pete Conrad.
	He claimed that he walked, he and his partner, Wally Schirra, I think it was, walked away from the LM in a short distance, he called it a short distance, and then he couldn't see it anymore because of the curvature It's another good example of the fact that they weren't there.
	twenty-two no twenty one twenty three foot high vessel
	disappeared on the horizon and i calculated that out
	and you'd have to walk uh... you know a mile mile-and-a-half for that to happen
	and so i just don't believe
	it's another good example of the fact that they
	weren't there this uh... the uh... problem with cooling is another one of
	these problems you'd have to exchange that heat in the tank of water
	or some kind of coolant.
	And there just aren't any ways that they did that.
	Look, I've got to admit, some of these arguments are quite compelling and I don't know the answers to them.
	But I'm still, I'm not driven over the threshold, perhaps I've not studied it as much as the two of you, but I'm just not driven over this threshold.
	I've got one for you that may drive you over that, that drove me over it.
	If the three of us went together to the moon, we would bond, we would become the greatest of friends.
	And I've done, you know, kind of a lot of exploring by myself, and one time, Got separated from my diving buddies in a cave, and suddenly I was alone down there.
	And that was different than being with my comrades and my friends.
	Now, the command module pilot that went around the dark side of the moon did this repeatedly.
	And that man, six men in the world, six men have been on the other side of the moon, out of radio contact with the earth, completely and totally alone in a way that no other men have ever been alone.
	And this experience... And your point is what?
	That they could not have... They weren't changed by that.
	How were they not changed by that experience?
	Why would you think that experience would be as profound as you're suggesting?
	I mean, they were busy, they were given tasks.
	Well, they weren't busy, and then you're suddenly, you know, you're in a van-sized object,
	perhaps even a pickup truck-sized object, in the dark of space on the other side of the moon,
	and you're alone.
	I mean, in a way, you don't have anything to do with it.
	Alright, but I mean, what are you suggesting should have occurred?
	I think a profound change, a sea change, in those men's hearts.
	A kind of philosophical bent would have occurred.
	They would have talked about that experience.
	They would have talked about it to us.
	They would have told us what it was like.
	would have happened when the door of the spacecraft closed and the LM went down.
	The command pilot module, the pilot staying up there, would have changed.
	All right.
	He would have changed.
	I think many of these things that we're talking about would become more topics of conversation if we knew for a fact
	they didn't go.
	Look, we're coming to an end here, and I want you to have a chance to promote your book.
	You've been wonderful tonight.
	What would you like people to read from you?
	First, I want to read some James McKenney.
	What do you suggest?
	Well, what I've done for the show art is a three-book special, and people can either order it on my webpage, And there's the secure ordering link there, or a lot of times people like to order by mail.
	And the three books are the Planet X, Comets and Earth Changes, which deals with the physics of the solar system, the electrical nature of the solar system.
	And the second book is the Atlantis to Tesla book, which describes the physics of Tesla And goes back into ancient societies and talks about the secret societies that have come forward.
	I think that's the one that would get me.
	And that is a very unusual book for me to write, but I had been talking about this and people said, you have to write this down.
	And in that book, I've also included the original paper from 1982 Regarding my electromagnetic propulsion system, which is the basis of my own private space program right now.
	So at any rate, the three book set is $35 including shipping and handling to the 50 states.
	Okay.
	either on my web page or people can send that the $35 to JMCC, PO Box 58, Navarre, Minnesota.
	Navarre is N-A-V-A-R-R-E, Minnesota, 55392.
	Alright, my long experience says, do that again slowly.
	Okay.
	People grab pencils and pens that are right upside down and stuff, and so now they're ready to write, so go ahead.
	Once again, it's $35 for the three books, Planet X, Comets, and Earth Changes, Atlantis to Tesla, The Colburn Connection.
	And the pamphlet, which is Surviving Planet X Passage.
	And send that to J.M.C.C.
	P.O.
	Box 58, Navarre, N.A.V.A.R.R.E., Minnesota 55392.
	Alright, buddy, listen.
	Thank you for being here tonight.
	It has been an absolute pleasure having you on.
	Well, thank you, Art.
	It's always wonderful being with you, and we'll talk again.
	Let's talk in private a little bit about some of your questions, and we'll cover some of those areas, how to get through the Van Allen belts.
	You got it.
	And my little demonstration, which I will be touring the Southwest in February.
	All right.
	Well, we're out of here.
	Thank you, and good night to Professor McKinney.
	All right, folks.
	Listen to me very carefully.
	Beginning tomorrow night, it'll be all open lines and predictions for 2004.
	I expect you to do a little work on these, not just off the tip of your tongue, but consider thought on your predictions.
	This is going to be a very good year.
	I can feel it in my bones.
	It's going to be a really good prediction year.
	So, you spend the time on it.
	We'll throw the lines open tomorrow night, Wednesday night,

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