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Dec. 7, 2003 - Art Bell
02:51:34
Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Dr. Stephen Greer - Bill McDonald
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🎵 Music 🎵 From the high desert and the great American Southwest,
I bid you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon, in whatever time zone of the world you may be in,
because we're heard in all of them.
This is Coast to Coast AM.
I'm Mark Bell, of course.
Now, here in the desert southwest, the winds are getting ready to blow.
During the course of the program tonight, about halfway through, we should begin to get about 45 mile an hour winds, and the temperature is going to plunge.
And that's the kind of weather we're having here.
Lightning and thunder to the north and a little bit east of me here.
Very close, actually.
I worry about such things with my antennas and towers, but it's in his hands.
Now, this is going to be extremely interesting from my point of view, and I expect yours, too.
Dr. Stephen Greer is founder and CEO of Space Energy Access Systems, Inc., and the founder and director of the Disclosure Project.
That's the Disclosure Project.
Dr. Greer is actually an emergency physician, former chairman of the Department of Emergency Medicine at Caldwell Memorial Hospital, as founder and CEO of Space Energy Access Systems.
Dr. Greer has been supervising a worldwide search for alternative energy sources, an admirable search, specifically those known as zero-point or over-unity devices.
With the plan to identify and develop systems which will eliminate the need for fossil fuels.
Arguably, Dr. Greer is the biggest advocate for disclosure in North America.
Well, actually, I would perhaps proffer even the world.
The biggest advocate for disclosure in the world.
Therefore, We will give him the John Lear test in a moment.
For the purposes of this test, Dr. Lear, Mr. Lear on the mind, Dr. Greer, for the purpose of this test, you must assume, this is very important, you must assume that everything you are about to hear is true.
You're going to be led into a briefing room, and this was originally a test for me, Which in the mind of many, by the way, I flunked.
You're going to be led into a briefing room by government guys and you're going to be shown everything the government knows about UFOs and ETs and the whole thing!
Everything!
You're going to lay it out in a briefing with video and maybe a blackboard to scratch out the meaning of that which can't be vocally You're going to get it all in a moment.
The Lear Briefing for Dr. Greer.
stay right where you are doctor career welcome to the program
Thank you, glad to be here.
It's great to have you.
Where in the world are you, by the way?
I'm in Washington, D.C.
Washington, D.C.
Alright.
I would ask that you listen to the following very carefully, and as you listen, for the assumption of this test and this question, just assume what you hear, fantastic as it may be, to be true, making your judgment based on that, okay?
Alright, in that case then, here it comes, the infamous Lear test.
So, okay, let's say the government chose me.
They were going to use me as an outlet to release this information.
Let's just say they did that and they took me to a briefing.
Then what, John?
Okay, we whisked you to, or they whisked you to Washington, D.C.
You get limoed to this building, beautiful building.
You go up into this room.
They say, Art, you're the guy.
If you give us the go-ahead, we're going to release everything we know to the public.
And if you decide to go ahead, all major networks will be provided with information on all aspects of the cover-up.
No type of information will be withheld because of the deal for immunity for all participants of the cover-up provides it nothing, no artifact, no piece of information be withheld.
So here's what happened, Art.
And of course, we'll use some videos and stills.
Our first UFO recoveries are in the late 30s.
We made a couple in the beginning of the 40s and then came Roswell.
Which the public found out about.
We got two live aliens from Roswell.
One died shortly thereafter.
One lived until 1956.
And we found out that so far there are 18 different alien species that we know about monitoring Earth.
Some are good.
Some are hostile.
Most are indifferent.
We found out that we are the experimenter product, if you will, of an alien race.
We never met and really don't know who they are.
All we know is that the Greys are cybernetic organisms, glorified robots if you will, who work here at the behest of their employers monitoring us through abductions.
We were never able to find out what the experiment is all about except that we have been externally corrected about 65 times and they, the aliens, refer to us as containers.
There has been speculation that the souls our bodies contains is the reason for the experiment.
But nothing has been proven or determined.
Since 1938, we have lost over 200 aircraft to UFO hostilities, and thousands of soldiers, and all kinds of different kinds of action with aliens.
Since that time, several hundred thousand civilians have disappeared with no trace.
Several thousand were eliminated by us because of their chance encounters with aliens, which we could ill afford to have publicized.
A slightly more frightening phenomenon known as human mutilations have occurred on a regular basis, and are similar to the cattle mutilations, in that the humans, or humans, are taken from the street, so to speak, and returned to the same area about 45 minutes to an hour later, where their rectums cored out, their genitals removed, their eyes removed from their sockets, and completely drained of blood.
In all cases, it appears that the mutilation procedures occurred while the persons were still alive and conscious.
One of our scientists speculates that apparently the human specimens had to be alive for the samples to be worth anything.
Abductions occur on a daily basis throughout the United States to at least 10% of the population.
And when we first became aware of this, we protested to the little grey being that we held in captivity at the YY-2 facility at Los Alamos.
But a deal was struck that in exchange for advanced technology from the aliens, we would allow them to abduct a very small number of persons And we would be periodically given a list of those persons abducted.
We got something less than the technology we bargained for and found that the abductions exceeded by a million-fold what we had naively agreed to.
In 1954, President Eisenhower met with a representative of another alien species at Muroc Test Center, which is now called Edwards Air Force Base.
This alien suggested that they could help us get rid of the grave, but Eisenhower turned down their offer because they offered no technology.
At this point, it became apparent to all involved that there was no such thing as a God, at least as the public perceives God.
Certainly some kind of computer recorder stores information, and an occasional miracle is displayed by the aliens to influence a religious event.
So this so unnerved Eisenhower that he had, in God we trust, put on paper money and coins and put into the Pledge of Allegiance to reaffirm the public belief in God.
Shortly after this, it was determined at meetings between the US and Russians That the situation was serious enough that a Cold War should be manufactured as a ruse to divert attention of the public away from UFOs and towards some other scary threat, the H-bomb.
It was also decided to keep the ruse secret from any elected or appointed official within both the U.S.
and Russian government, as long as it took so long to vet these officials and the ruse was easier to manage if the top people didn't know about it.
In the late 1950s, NASA was formed to compartmentalize, containerize, and sanitize information from all space platforms and vehicles.
We sold NASA to the public, claiming that all information would belong to them.
Actually, they got very little, and even that was highly sanitized.
Our first efforts were to keep the public from learning about Venus, and that it is a similar planet to Earth, and that its population is very similar to us, but more technologically advanced.
We have learned a lot from them.
Starting with the Russian Venera 1 and U.S.
Mariner 2, we made Venus look like a lead-melting, volcanic surface spewing sulfuric acid into a pressurized atmosphere 90 times that of Earth.
And was often the case we overdid it and wondered why no one ever asked how a parachute survived a descent into 800 degree air.
We set up operations in Pine Gap, Australia to preclude any prying eyes trying to figure out what we were up to.
We regularly eliminated, to extreme prejudice, anybody who was part of the operation and made the least little tiny threat about disclosure or satisfaction with the operation.
Any space mission that included Mercury, Gemini, Apollo, Mariner, Voyager, Clementine, and all the rest, all data initially came transmitted to Pine Gap, and then it was relayed to JPL or wherever after the sanitizing.
We had a little trouble with amateur radio operators, but we figured out When they figured out how they could intercept these signals, but we managed to deal with that.
When the Russian threat began to fade, we introduced Vietnam, which kept the public occupied for over 10 years.
The cover-up and the personnel to run the operation began to get bigger and bigger and required more and more money.
We were forced to inflate the defense budget, which soon was not enough.
Then we got into the drug business, which was still not enough.
We were the ones that looted the savings and loan industry and Wall Street to boot.
It is so out of control now, most people want immunity and want out.
But there is so much secrecy and so many double and triple blinds in place, that it is unlikely that this thing can ever be dismantled.
And even if you give us the go-ahead to spill the beans to the public, it's unlikely they will get anything more than, yes, we recovered a flying saucer, and yes, there was an occupant, but that's all we're going to tell you.
So go ahead and roll the tape for Mr. Bell.
What you see here are the human mutilations.
Uh, look like that one was a male about 27 years old.
Uh, now that film is of dead aliens being pulled from the wreckage of their craft that crashed in Atlantic California in the fifties.
That craft you see over there is, was over 250 feet in diameter and had to be buried on the spot.
Uh, that site is in Utah near Dugway Proving Grounds.
The object that you're looking at now is the Kecksburg Acorn, which was brought to Wright-Patt in the middle sixties.
There's Frank Drake trying to force information out of a being tied down to that stretcher.
He was supposedly from Tau Ceti.
These pictures you're looking at now are the structures on the moon.
That's the tower in Sinus Medi.
It's over seven miles tall.
And that thing there is what we call the Colossus of Agurum in Maricosiam.
We don't know what it does, but the machine itself is bigger than Brooklyn, New York.
Now those are videos of the domes covering the craters.
You can see that some are in a very advanced state of decay.
Now, these are five second slides of the 18 different alien species we are looking at.
That one there is the most gruesome looking.
The guards at one facility are carefully indoctrinated over a period of several months, being shown pictures similar to, but not exactly like the alien.
Only when they have been acclimatized, so to speak, of the horrible looking beings are they allowed to stand in security positions.
Before these acclimatizations were done, we had two guards die of a heart attack as these aliens came down the hallway unexpectedly.
And this last clip is of the Kennedy assassination.
You've heard of the second gunman theory?
Well, this is the second camera that recorded exactly what happened.
We had four gunmen.
And the bottom line was, Kennedy had to go.
He insisted on releasing what little alien information we had told him about, And he was trying to withdraw troops from Vietnam, which we were using as a diversion for the public.
After Kennedy, we never told any president anything.
Nixon knew because he was briefed as VP in 1952.
That's how he knew where to take Jackie Gleason to Homestead Air Force Base to see the alien bodies we had storage there.
And that's about it.
Well, that's essentially, Dr. Greer, where I'll leave it for you.
If the assumption is that all of that is so, how would you react?
Well, if, and this is the big if, that were true, I would say, no, you would not brief the public with that briefing that you just received.
I had to answer the same way.
In fact, of course, I know that briefing isn't true.
It's a moot point.
Well, all right.
Let's talk about that.
You're not on a speakerphone, are you?
No.
Okay.
When you say the briefing is not true, how many aspects of it, or maybe it would be easier to ask you what aspects of that briefing do you believe are true?
There were a lot of facts given there.
Well, in point of fact, I would say that, you know, I didn't count them all, but it Somewhere around 75% of the points were probably not correct.
I'd have to look at it and analyze it.
I was just listening to it.
About a quarter of it was true.
But of course, what I have found in dealing with people here in Washington, where I am tonight, is that these are exactly the problems that they face.
How do they sort through what part is mythology?
what part of it is deliberate disinformation designed to cause a certain type of emotional reaction
and what part of it is real.
And I think that is the hardest part of sifting through all of this.
And I think it's one of the reasons why so many people decide they don't want to deal with it.
It's easier not to deal with it.
All right, let me try this on you.
Last night, I interviewed Bob Lazar.
I know that you know that name.
Yeah, I know Bob.
Okay, fine.
No matter what you think of Bob, one way or the other.
I got to a point in the interview where I asked Bob, look, I'm going to ask, there have to be other Bob Lazar's out there.
Send me email.
Come forward.
I'll give you air time.
I'll put you on the air.
And then I made the mistake right after the break of saying, so Bob, what do you say to other people out there like yourself?
Should they come forward?
And he said, hell no!
Right.
No, yes, he has said the same thing to me because of the difficulties that people have experienced.
And yet, you know, it's interesting.
The Disclosure Project has Over 500 people that we've identified, over 100 have come forward.
None of them have had any harassment or problems associated with that.
I think that one of the problems is the lone wolf syndrome.
I think if you come forward as an individual, by yourself, trying to establish something this explosive, number one, the weight of the subject collapses that person.
It can't be sustained with one person.
It has to be sustained with dozens, and I would posit to people maybe hundreds of people.
And the other issue is that when a single person comes forward, there's an intrinsic credibility problem, even if the person is saying everything that he says is true.
But if it's something this explosive, it becomes hard to accept.
And when so much information is coming out about something this explosive from only one person, without independent corroboration, it sets that person up for a nightmare.
Well, speaking of nightmares, Doctor, of the things that John Lear talked about, 75% of which you said probably aren't so, are you discarding mostly the negative aspects of, I don't know, either the alien presence, or the way they look like, or what they've done to human beings?
Or, what about the government stuff?
In other words, what part of it do you buy into?
You buy into the great secrecy, don't you?
Well, I certainly, you know, accept the things that we have personally discovered and have multiple corroborating sources for.
It's like at the New York Times, they want three separate sources.
Well, almost everything that we've bought into, we have more than half a dozen sources.
So certainly, there is extraordinary secrecy that's para-governmental, meaning that it is within Uh, certain aspects of what we might think of as the government, but in fact, the constitutional government, as we think of it, has very little sway over these matters, and it's been really handled in an extra-constitutional manner.
Do you think people have been killed over this information?
Yes, I have no doubt about it.
You have no doubt?
Well, you, you, you know what I said it well.
Yes.
You, you know we've had, before we got the security things in place that we should, we enjoyed today, uh, our group I know that, but Doctor, do you really believe that if extreme prejudice has been used there would ever be an admission of that?
Well, you know, it's very difficult to know whether something like that would be admitted to.
I mean, some years ago, in the early first couple of years, I think, of the Clinton administration, it was admitted that we deliberately infected African Americans with the venereal diseases in the South.
And we've also now admitted that there were nuclear experiments done.
where people were literally injected and infected with plutonium, the deadliest substance known to man.
So I think that the world didn't fall apart then.
It was acknowledged that those things happened.
I think that many people understand that extreme measures are taken in the fog of war
or in the fog of confusion of dealing with something like this.
I don't know that people would be happy with it.
They weren't happy when those other things were disclosed.
But of course, the point that we've always made about disclosure, and I think it has to go from disclosing information and documents about UFOs and extraterrestrial intelligence to the next phase, which is what we're working on now, and that's the disclosure of the raison d'etre for the secrecy.
Meaning, of course, the actual very powerful energy and propulsion systems that are well-known and very classified corporatized projects but which of course would result in the termination of the fossil fuel industry, including all oil, coal, gas, centralized utilities and what have you.
But this sort of disclosure is something which can be a positive event.
And again, one of the things I said many years ago to one of the senior Pentagon people is that if a disclosure is done that Hit all the hot buttons of paranoia and fear and insecurity that humans have.
Like God?
Like our maker?
Like how we got here?
That sort of thing?
Well, which gets into very speculative areas, quite frankly.
That part of the briefing I felt to be almost gratuitously speculative and beyond the scope of what would be a briefing that would be believable by most people.
But I think the other issue is that Disclosure which would focus on the facts in a non-emotional way and would also point out the upside of this information and the very positive things that could redound to humanity over a period of time.
I think that would be not a terrible event.
Uh, how one does this, and one exercise.
Alright, Doctor.
Hold it right there.
We're at the bottom of the hour.
We'll have a clean shot at the top of the hour.
Stand by, and we'll get right back to you.
Dr. Stephen Greer is my guest.
From the High Desert, I'm Art Bell.
You got me running, going out of my mind.
You got me thinking that I'm wasting my time.
Don't bring me down.
No, no, no, no, no.
No, no, no, no, no.
I'll tell you once more before I get off the floor.
Don't bring me down.
No, no, no, no, no, no.
Waterloo, promise to love me forevermore.
Waterloo, couldn't escape me, but I wanted you.
Waterloo, knowing my fate is to be with you.
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.
Waterloo, finding grace in my Waterloo.
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.
Oh, I, I tried to hold you back, but you were stronger.
Oh, yeah.
And now it seems my only chance is now.
To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
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International callers may Once again, Dr. Steven Greer is my guest.
Arguably the biggest advocate for disclosure probably in the whole world.
and dialing toll free 800-893-0903.
From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
Once again, Dr. Steven Greer is my guest, arguably the biggest advocate for disclosure
probably in the whole world.
He'll be right back.
Even if you assume the most benign of the truths, I think we just agree that people have been killed
over this information to keep this information silent.
And lies surely have been built upon lies for years and years and years
until the stack stretches most of the way toward the moon I suppose.
And with regard to disclosure, Doctor, one crack can bring down a wall.
And if we, for example, got information about new energy, the next questions would be, well, where the hell did you get it?
Who'd you get it from?
What have we done with them?
And on and on and on.
In other words, the wall comes down.
Well, of course, and this is one of the reasons why, aside from the obvious need for a solution to the biosphere pollution, geopolitical and other problems associated with fossil fuels, Bringing out the information related to the energy and propulsion systems that have been kept secret, many of which, by the way, are not of off-planet origin.
They are not of extraterrestrial origin.
I mean, I remind people that a human being can invent something just as well as someone from another star system.
And in fact, whether you look at the work of T. Townsend Brown, or you look at the work of Tesla, or you look at the work of Sweet and many others, there have been Humans, very much humans, who have come through their minds the sort of innovations and discoveries of the nature of time and matter and space and electromagnetism to allow for the generation of energy which is not needing the burning of fossil fuels or nuclear power or what have you.
So in fact, but the issue really becomes What's relevant to people right now, and I think what is most relevant to people right now is the harmful effects of secrecy, which very specifically has to do with keeping the world rather addicted to this little line of super tankers filled with this black stuff called oil coming out of the Middle East and elsewhere.
All right, well, Doctor, I know that you've been on a worldwide search for the real McCoy, you know, alternative over-unity, whatever.
I know you've been on that search.
Where are you?
Well, it's interesting.
It's been a two-year search.
I will tell you that, as we expected at the outset, the vast majority of claims associated with this area are fraudulent.
The next largest category are people who are not frauds, but are simply delusional, meaning that they're sincere, but they're sincerely wrong.
They believe they have something that is, in fact, a source of, quote, free energy, and it isn't.
It's a calculation problem or what have you.
The third category of people are people who really do have something.
I'm speaking of people who have not yet been absorbed into a corporate structure or government
structure.
These are people who, unfortunately, we have found all but one of them so far.
I say all but one and we'll get to that in a moment, who have been convinced that, quote,
the world isn't ready for this yet and to keep it secret.
In other words, they've gone through the same brainwashing that has kept some of the military
people in line to keep these other things secret.
No kidding.
Yes.
And what's interesting, and these are some, uh, some of these are people who have systems that we have personally seen and tested, um, and which would revolutionize the way people on earth live on the earth.
However, I believe they have been intercepted by people who appear to be friendly to them
and who are actually counterintelligent and disinformation people who have convinced them
of sort of a, sort of played into the inventor syndrome of a messianic complex where they
are told, well look, the world isn't ready for this yet but when there is this eschatological
solution to the human problem, sort of the end of the world scenario, we can then bring
this out phoenix-like and recreate or resurrect the life on earth in a positive way and you
can be the bearer of this information.
Yes, but doctor, you would have to say...
And so they are convinced, many of these people then say, oh well, I'll just keep this a secret.
Well, wait a minute, doctor.
Let's say I had invented something.
Let's say I had the over-unity device that's a real McCoy and somebody comes to me, what
could they say to me beyond, look, the world isn't ready for this yet that would cause
me to keep my mouth shut.
not going to be enough to say, I'm going to say...
Bull, the world has been ready for this for the last 30 years.
Where have you guys been?
So what else are you going to say to keep me from releasing it?
Well, there's a combination of veiled threats and a history of threats and then a sort of grandiose appeal to people to keep these things quiet until quote, the right time.
Now of course one of the things that we pointed out to these gentlemen is that if you want
to take sort of a spiritual view of this, if the divine being has allowed the minds
of men to discover these wondrous sources of energy and sciences for almost a hundred
years only to have them cast aside out of lust for power and greed and secrecy and other
dark human emotions, how can you say the world isn't ready?
It is ready.
It's just that the sort of power elite, if you will, aren't ready because they don't
want to let go of the centralized power that is contained within the entire structure,
the macroeconomic structure that's based on the energy system that runs the entire world
But the point is that we believe that this last category of people are people who actually have discovered great things or geniuses but unfortunately have been convinced to keep it secret.
Now there's one final category of people and we have to date only met one person that's been able to demonstrate a How much can you tell me about it?
Well, what I can tell you is that our group, Space Energy Access Systems, has a worldwide exclusive license to try to bring this out.
The person involved is offshore, is very frightened.
Um, has demonstrated to us that these technologies that he's been able to build, while somewhat crude, are actually very impressive, but to date has never been able to deliver to us a system.
Now, this has been a very frustrating drama that's been going on now for about ten and a half months.
Well, then why doesn't that push him back a couple of categories?
Uh, the only reason it doesn't is because He's in a gray box.
What I would say is that this particular inventor is in a gray box where it's not quite clear yet if this is someone who has been unduly influenced by a third party to not cooperate or actually have something, because we have seen and tested one of these systems.
But I mean, at this point, that puts the whole invention in the gray box.
Well, yes.
Well, you have to separate out.
The behavior of the inventors from the technology itself really do.
But in reality, the result is exactly what you said, and that is that it's in a gray box because at this point we're still waiting to take delivery.
You know, we had, it's interesting, at the first of March, we had a private jet loaded to go to go and pick up this gentleman and the device and bring it back to a secure facility here near our place here outside Washington.
And what happened?
A corporate lawyer and a business person that had been associated with this inventor stopped the Hope Transfer dead in its tracks.
It's very interesting.
A whole book could be written about the drama of this little misadventure or adventure.
We're not sure which it is yet.
On what basis was it stopped?
Well, you know, the claim was that there was someone who was not being taken care of by the inventor, who was supposed to be taken care of in the agreement that he had.
In reality, we're not sure what was behind it.
This is something that still isn't clear.
And because we're dealing with a controversy in three separate countries, it's been a morass.
So this is another one of the things that happens with these sort of efforts, is that you get these people surrounded by Legal and business people who do everything they can to throw a monkey wrench in having the technology brought forward.
The reason I say this is in a class in itself is because we have been able to see an extraordinary phenomenon with this particular device that we cannot explain as anything but a device that is extracting electromagnetic energy that's usable from the so-called quantum vacuum space around that object.
But in reality, because we have not actually taken possession of the machine or the plans to reproduce it, it remains very much in the questionable category.
But the claim here is that it extracted essentially zero point energy and turned it into kilowatts.
You could see it wasn't quite kilowatts, maybe about half a kilowatt.
And this is the machine that we were able to pick up, take outside, plug things into it.
uh... inspected there was no hidden for the power it was one of the most
extraordinary things i have personally ever seen uh... now that the good news the good news is that i'm
quite sure that this is uh... can be done
now there's another category of of and and i would pay that our group the
disclosure project working with the uh...
the disclosure project dot org people can look at what we're doing with this
character these power dot com our website what we have found is that there are about three dozen
inventors who have
devices in more immature stages or less right
stages of development and we think that with probably around
million dollars in research and development fund that uh... at least a dozen of those could be brought to
commercial viability within a year or two
Unfortunately, they do need that kind of support, and that's something we're looking at doing.
And the next thing that we're doing, by the way, which what we think is a complimentary to this, and we're going to have information on this on our website soon.
And in fact, I would say this is the first time I've ever called for this publicly is on this show tonight, is that we are going to do with the energy issue what we did with the UFO issue.
And we are calling for exactly what you sort of brought up earlier.
People who have been in either laboratories, corporations, Government entities or who are civilians with high credibility and high scientific credibility who have been either present during the suppression of these energy technologies or have seen them intercepted and cast aside or put into a black box and who are willing to come forward and be identified.
Now, we do know some people, some scientists who have been involved in those projects, but they're terrified to come forward.
What we're suggesting is that let's get about a dozen of them who are highly credentialed, who have been at the patent office or have been with an intelligence agency or corporation and have suppressed, for example, an 80 mile per gallon carburetor or who have suppressed a zero point energy device and who may have documentation to back this up or corroborating colleagues to back it up.
And we will do next year, in the middle of this election cycle, a disclosure event, Disclosure 2, that will present to the world the fact that we do have a solution to the oil and biosphere and environmental problems and that we have assembled people who are ready to testify and will testify quite independently, again, here in Washington at the National Press Club, that, in fact, this has happened over the last 50 or 60 years.
So, anyone who is like that, meets that criteria I just outlined, can write to me personally at DisclosureProject.org and we will get back in touch with them.
However, I will tell you, I'm very careful, we're not going to go forward with anything like this until we have multiple corroborating people who are highly credentialed and highly credible, who are ready to put that information out to the public.
The reason we think this has to happen very soon, It's because the public is being terribly misled about not only why the world is run the way it is, but what has to be done to correct it.
You know, we're looking at a 30-some-billion-dollar energy bill coming out of the Senate that doesn't address any of these issues.
And with a fraction of a percent of that, this whole problem could be solved.
So the public needs to know that there are seriously positive solution the energy problems that have been ruthlessly
suppressed not out of national security but in point of fact out of
of ruthless sort of greed and a lot
for power well when you brought people forward doctor uh...
credible people and did the disclosure you did do that wall
did not come crashing down or at least it hasn't yet now we never expected to
That's a misinterpretation.
That was never the intention that it would all crash down at once.
This is a process.
You know, this thing has been building for not 50 or 60 years, all right?
It's been building, the secrecy has been building for nearly 100 years.
Well, all right, this is a second wall we're talking about.
If you were to do... Well, it's a brick in the same wall.
You see, this is what you... Let me correct you here.
This is part of the foundation of the secret apparatus, but this is one of the cheap cornerstones.
The raison d'etre, the reason, the very purpose for much of the secrecy surrounding the UFO issue Isn't because, you know, they're here to eat us for lunch.
If they wanted to eat us for lunch, we'd be eaten already.
It's because the energy and propulsion systems that explain the phenomenon of a UFO would make obsolete the need for oil and fossil fuels and these other very primitive, almost atavistic technologies that we're using.
Well then, Doctor, explain then how you can disclose one without disclosing the other.
No, the whole point is that You disclose both of them, and one will bring the other one out.
But the thing that right now is going to have the greatest traction and relevancy to a public terrorized in the aftermath of 9-11, and who are appalled at what's going on now in the Middle East, and what's probably going to be going on in the coming few months.
I don't want to say more than that, but I think it's going to get worse before it gets better.
And I think that they're going to want to see that There is a solution to the purpose, to the reason why many of these things have occurred.
Many people forget that Osama Bin Laden was an ally of the United States when we were fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan, or helping him fight the Soviets in Afghanistan.
It wasn't until we encamped in the Middle East trying to protect oil over there in the first gulf war and in the lead up to the first gulf war that uh... people in that part of the world became so furious with uh... with the west and i think it's not to excuse the barbaric and horrific acts of the terrorists of nine eleven it is however to shed some light on the background of this you know i i have just been invited but but but doctor uh... one second uh... if we're having wars we've we've had wars about oil
We're having a war about oil now.
We're shedding American blood for oil.
So how are you ever going to release information that says that blood was shed for nothing because we already secretly had the answer to the whole damn problem and it didn't have to happen.
The war didn't have to happen.
The oil doesn't have to keep coming.
And American boys don't have to shed their blood and women over in Iraq or anywhere else for oil, because we don't really need it.
How's that ever going to come out?
It has to come out, and the longer we wait, the more painful the sacrifices will be, and I predict 9-11 will look like a picnic if we don't get our act together and fix this fundamental problem of very wrong-headed secrecy That has led to an out of control, spiraling out of control situation on this planet.
And I think that the public already thinks this.
you don't have to go to a conspiracy theorist to have people understand that there are powerful
cartels that have maintained the status quo and that there probably have been solutions
to the energy issue and the environmental issue that have been kept out of the public
domain because you're dealing with a $5 trillion a year part of the global economy.
So I think that this is not something that people are going to have a hard time understanding.
I think in fact there can be another split side of this.
Part of it is the horror that you express which will be one reaction but there's another
reaction and that will be well thank God there's a solution to this.
That's not a trivial reaction.
That reaction would bring down governments, tear nations to shreds, politically, socially, a disaster.
It could if they don't handle it right, and this is the other point.
If there continues to be a resistance to letting this information come out, you know, I had an executive producer for one of the big three news networks who was going to do an enormous Explosé on what we had found with the Disclosure Project.
And about a year ago, when we were working on this with him, he came to me and he said, you know, I cannot do this piece.
And this was an extremely mainstream, powerful news figure.
The time is already short.
Why couldn't he do it?
He said, they won't let me.
And I said, and I just said, well, who are they?
He said, well, you know who they are.
And he smiled and I said, yes, of course I know who they are.
The fact is that the public is going, we're going to have to relentlessly continue to do this, and there's some good news here.
I've just been invited to do a 5,000 word guest article for one of the world's most prestigious foreign affairs journals.
Alright, you know what, we're going to have to end the interview on good news.
That's good news.
Alright, so Dr. Greer, thank you for being here.
Thank you.
Hot stuff, good night my friend.
Hot stuff, alright.
Lies on lies on lies that stretch from here to the moon.
It's 2 a.m.
and fear is gone.
It's 2 a.m.
and the sun's still warm.
Yeah, there's a storm on the loose, and sirens in my head.
Be at sight, sound, smell, or touch the something inside that we need so much.
Oh my god.
The sight of a touch, or the scent of a sound, or the strength of an oak when it moves deep in the ground.
The wonder of flowers to be covered and then to burst up through tarmac to the sun again.
Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing.
To lie in a meadow and hear the grass sing.
To have all these things in our memories haunt.
And they use them to help us survive I'm...
Fragmentary soul, take this place!
On this trip, just for me Run, take a belong
Take my place, up the sea It's for free
Wanna take a ride?
To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295
The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222 To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll free 800-825-5033.
From west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
International callers may reach Art by calling your in-country Sprint Access number, pressing option 5 and dialing toll free 800-893-0903.
From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
All aboard.
Good evening everybody.
Understand there's hail coming down in Mesquite, Nevada.
Told you it was close.
Weird weather.
51 degrees out there and hail and lightning to our north.
Oh my.
Bill McDonald's educational background.
He's the guest coming up, Bill McDonald.
His educational background is in the field of military aviation, courtesy of the USMC, and the California Army National Guard, combined with forensic anthropology.
His work experience was as an undercover private investigator, a PI, for over 12 years, working with major metropolitan police departments, federal agencies, and our military.
At the same time, he was a precision, fantasy, technical, scientific, and commercial illustrator who fell into forensics.
McDonald received his, uh, received, rather, his B.A.
degree from, uh, Cal State Fullerton in criminal justice specializes in using correct investigative methods to conduct interviews with key, specific witnesses in both criminal and paranormal cases.
And the correct forensic procedures for rendering composite illustrations based on physical evidence and or corroborated testimonies that can be used for legal inquest commercial media or other paranormal and UFO related case research on the website coastcoastam.com right now you may want to go up there are several illustrations EBE-1 and EBE-2 I believe from the purported leaked USAF top secret magic SOM1-01 documents.
We'll learn what those are in a moment.
Stay right where you are.
Welcome to the program.
It's a pleasure.
Thank you, Mark.
It's good to have you here.
Where are you, Bill?
I'm in Phoenix.
Well, actually, Mesa, Arizona right now, but I want it known that I am born and bred on the beaches of Southern California.
I live in exile here in Arizona.
You miss the water, do you?
Yes, sir.
I miss my surfboard.
I miss my 5,000-volume library that's in storage, and I miss scuba diving, and I miss the kelp beds.
I miss the fish.
Well, you'll get back there if you're meant to.
I'm sure you will.
Now, you had the opportunity, I'm told, to hear the first hour with Dr. Greer and the briefing by Mr. Lear.
And since you heard it all, I'm curious.
First of all, the strict test, and that is if you were to uh... be forced to buy every word that john lear said as
the truth and you were in a position to either really release that the public
based on what you heard or not what would you have done
well first of all based on uh...
my surveying of all the research and all the material that's out there
after compositing all of my testimony and everybody else's i have no conflict with what john lear has said
further uh...
being a military veteran and uh... veteran of working with responsible
individuals and responsible agencies and professions uh... my first response would be absolutely and utterly not
It would cause a lot of hardship, both economically and physically, to a lot of people.
It might even destroy the country.
It would cause enormous hardship to people's lifestyles and enormous hardships to people's well-being.
The general health of individuals would be in decline for a lot of reasons that we could spend an entire program just on that.
Well, from my point of view, if half of it was true, That answer would still be valid.
I mean, half of it.
Just half of it was true.
You couldn't disclose that the United States had done that sort of thing to their own people and the magnitude of those lies and that amount of killing just could not be revealed.
Could not be revealed.
There's no way that anybody who is a professional could reveal that information.
However, I'm going to throw you a curveball here.
Sure.
Under one condition.
I would disclose it, because... That would be, the government would dig you a 5,000 foot deep bunker with all you'd need for the rest of your life and lots of Playboy bunnies, otherwise what?
You know the messenger would be shot, you know that.
Yes, of course I do.
However, if every living president were standing on a podium with you and I together, and that disclosure was made, And all hell did break loose.
The way I would look at it is, what a good mix-up for the species.
In other words, something like that might be as catastrophic as having a volcano the size of Krakatoa and something the size of Yellowstone pop.
In situations like that, the species becomes stronger even as whole populations suffer.
It might actually, in the long run, propel the evolution of the species forward.
It might.
That's how evolutionary jumps are taken, I suppose.
Great rocks fall from the sky and one species disappears and another appears.
So it would be perhaps near that magnitude.
We'd be making a sacrifice for the species.
That's a tough trigger to pull, my friend.
I don't know.
Bruce Willis did a great job in that meteorite movie.
Yeah, he did.
It's still a hard-triggered poll.
I mean, if you know that a lot of people aren't going to make it to the other side when things are better and we have evolved, even perhaps most, that's a hard-triggered poll.
What else can I say?
I wouldn't pull it.
I don't think all the presidents would volunteer to stand on that podium with us.
Yeah, there's a lot of things I don't think.
Let's find out what you do know.
You said you had no contest basically with the majority of what John Lear said.
I got to interview Bill English here in Phoenix in 1993.
I want to know why you believe that, why you believe those things to be true, as does John.
When you interview people, And you know how to read their body language, look at their eye movements, the hand movements, the manner in which they swallow while talking.
Yes.
Two people come to mind.
One is Travis Walton and the other is Bill English.
Both of those men believe exactly what they are saying.
I know.
Okay?
I know.
I interviewed Travis Walton for hours and hours.
In fact, his boss.
Others in the crew.
I don't have any questions about that.
It happened.
Either they are the greatest actors and deserving of the best Oscar in the world when they're telling the truth.
No, it happened.
It happened.
There's no question about that.
I mean, they had lie detector tests.
They all backed each other up.
They all saw the stories were the same.
It happened.
A good investigator who doesn't have to worry about presenting evidence in the appropriate format for court can get a good read on people he's interviewing, he or she.
And a good interviewer can read the interviewee and know immediately whether he's getting a snow job or not.
You're telling me that based on the interviews you've done You know enough of that to be true, to take whatever portion you don't know to be true yourself for sure, on faith.
In other words, enough of it is true that probably most of it is true.
When somebody is coming across as truthful as a Travis Walton or a Bill English, and at the same time they have a pedigree that is absolutely incontrovertible, such as their military service, their service in the intelligence community, their service as scientists.
In other words, somebody with the Credentials of a Hal Puthoff.
And you, you know, put those two things together, you have no choice.
You utterly have no choice.
And then when you run into other individuals telling different parts of the same story, it becomes a very, very complex puzzle.
And as the pieces fall into place, my specialty art, above and beyond everything else, is I am a person who composites information.
I listen carefully and I find common factors in testimony, common factors in other people's research that they share on a quid pro quo basis.
How did you digest and render the Philip Corso information before he passed on?
I, of course, had the honor of interviewing him a number of times.
Colonel Corso's testimony, I got to interview him twice while we were in Roswell in July of 1997.
In person?
In person.
And he corroborated Frank Coffman's statements regarding the spacecraft and the flight crew.
He corroborated our Wright-Patterson witness that we know as Rick.
Now, Kevin Randall has walked away from Coffman, and Mark Roddiger has walked away from Coffman, and everybody but Don Schmidt walked away from Coffman.
And I had contacted folks when Stan Friedman gave his opinion of Coffman.
And I contacted Stan Friedman.
Frank Coffman may have told a lot of lies to Kevin Randall and to Stan Friedman, and that's incontrovertible.
The problem was, when it came to describing the Roswell spacecraft and describing the Roswell flight crew, his testimony was identical to what Len Stringfield had given to me prior to meeting him during the last week of Len's life.
I was the last person to ever work with Len Stringfield.
I know you know who he is.
But if somebody's on the stand in court and one of the attorneys can prove he lies, and that he's told a lie or multiple lies, I'm saying it's case here, but in a courtroom, at that point, you might as well kiss off that juror because the jury is going to dismiss that testimony just out of hand.
He's a liar.
You can't believe any of it.
I have other testimony.
John Andrews, who is another name that John Lear mentioned to you, who was the man and who Bob Lazar mentioned to you last night as a matter of fact, that man did a model kit deal with me and that man gave me information that has put me on a path that also corroborates Kaufman.
That path is that Ben Rich, and that's right, I'm talking about Skunk Works, Ben Rich and his mentor, Kelly Johnson.
had access to the information on the Roswell spacecraft and that they had discussed it with Robert I. Sawbarker, who was an Air Force scientist, and with John Andrews in 1983 through 1986 at least, and that John Andrews knew the configuration of the Roswell spacecraft long before he'd have met Bob Lazar or me or anybody.
And my spaceships followed Bob Lazar's to market via testers on the Roswell ship and the Roswell Clash site.
And Andrews admitted to me that there had been discussions and correspondence between him and Ben Rich and between them and Robert I. Saabacher and other witnesses who claimed to be friends of Kelly Johnson's had independently claimed to me Kelly was in communications with all of those folks regarding what he knew about the Roswell spacecraft.
And then I found out that Kelly had UFO sightings of his own, which included a spacecraft very similar to UFO number 8 in the line of 9 that Kenneth Arnold sighted 11 days before the Roswell crash.
And I was starting to be able to draw lines.
And Frank Coffman didn't start telling his stories until 1989.
And yet, I know for a fact that Ben Rich and Kelly Johnson were sharing confidential information that Kelly had gotten about the Roswell ship in 1954 with Ben Rich, who was going to replace him at Skunk Works, and with Robert Eisabacher, and even with John Andrews, who was the other young guy that he had mentored in the 60s, even though John was a model kit guy.
I'm curious about something.
Do most of the people that you have interviewed think that a craft crashed at Roswell and that there was a great number of sightings in the Roswell area in that era because we had successfully tested and demonstrated for the first time on the face of the earth nuclear capability.
Is that why the ships were there?
That is what the witnesses all state that they believe.
Their exact words were to me That they believe that the atomic bomb, exploding the atomic bomb at Trinity and then in Nevada and all the different places that they did over that period of years, sent interstellar smoke signals that brought all of those folks down on us because we are an oasis in space.
And imagine if, you know, military with our capabilities today, Comes across an oasis where there's a bunch of aborigines that live there and farm the area.
And we start either sharing or taking their resources because we're superior.
And then all of a sudden, they have invented weapons of mass destruction.
Imagine our concern.
How fast would we have intelligence and recon units in that area?
Very quickly, we watch other countries like a hawk for nuclear capability.
We know how horrible It can be, so it would make sense that any space-faring society capable of crossing the light years in the blink of a few eyes or whatever certainly would be on the lookout for worlds that suddenly demonstrate nuclear capability.
I've always thought that would probably be true.
If they really are watching, you know they're going to be watching when the mushroom cloud goes!
And that's going to get their attention.
So I thought, well, maybe that does account for why it happened near Roswell.
According to some scientists that I've talked to, exploding nuclear devices sends out pulses that may perturb more subtle energy fields than just the electromagnetic spectrum that, you know, the majority of us understand, that would allow for explosions on other worlds to be sensed remotely, subtly, At extreme distances.
I can imagine that might be so, yes.
That some energy might be dispersed from such an explosion at wavelengths we don't even yet measure nor know about, so sure, yeah.
And plus, I think they would be watching, so it makes sense that crash might occur and lots of activity would occur around Roswell, where the first bomber came from, where the whole thing went up.
So, you know, yeah, that's made sense to me, but But that's sort of just, you know, it makes sense.
That's still well short of any kind of proof, isn't it?
It's well short of any kind of proof, but the Roswell case remains the only case in the history of UFO research where, by our preponderance of the evidence, I could grab up Stanton Friedman, Kevin Randall, and everybody else I trust, and make a presentation to a jury in a federal court and win A civil case by a preponderance of the evidence.
That's pretty strong.
I believe that I could make a presentation right now in federal court based on my own research combined with Kevin and Stan and, you know, several other competing researchers if we were to, you know, work together.
We could make the presentation in court and convince the jury that a UFO crashed at Roswell and that a cover-up was perpetrated for whatever reasons that we want to speculate on.
I take it you wouldn't be in great fear of the jury being shown the official military explanation of what actually occurred in their opinion.
In my opinion, they'd laugh.
Dummies and everything.
Well, I laughed.
In my opinion, they'd laugh.
I laughed.
Everybody laughs.
When have you met somebody that doesn't laugh other than, say, what's his name?
Phillip.
You know, the gentleman from Popular Science.
No, actually, I don't know.
Phil Klass.
Oh, Phil Klass.
He's about the only one other than Carl Flock that I can think of that isn't laughing.
You know, actually, I think that I recall interviewing Phil Klass at a time after that, shortly after that, and to be honest with you, Phil said, you know, it wasn't really what I'd hoped for.
I mean, his expectations of that were not fulfilled.
So even he was kind of critical of, you know, the military's presentation.
I mean, how could you not be?
I just feel sorry for Colonel Weaver, don't you?
Well, yes.
I feel sorry for Colonel Weaver because he's put in the same position that Jesse Marcel's dad was put in.
He had to be the good soldier, he had to take the fall for the sake of the story, for the sake of duty, and Colonel Weaver's a good soldier.
Let's not short him on that.
He's a good soldier.
Well, you see, National security then, even now, carries a lot of weight.
And if people tell you that you have to keep your mouth shut for the sake of national security, why kneel down and show them this, you know, hunk of aluminum foil or whatever, then, you know, you can talk about it and say, I'd say, ah, baloney, I'm telling them the truth.
Well, no, you're a military guy and you do what you're ordered to do.
And besides, it seems like the right thing to do.
All right, Bill, hold on for a minute.
We're at the bottom of the hour, right?
Yes, sir.
Stay right there.
Did he just call me sir?
I think he did.
Anyway, from the high deserts in the middle of the night, with the winds getting ready
to howl across the desert, I'm Art Bell.
Can you hear my heartbeat in this heart? Do you know that the heart of this heart?
I'm Art Bell.
♪♪♪ ♪♪♪
♪♪♪ ♪♪♪
♪♪♪♪ ♪♪♪♪
To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll free at 800-825-5033.
The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll free at 800-825-5033.
From west of the Rockies, call Art at 800-618-8255.
International callers may reach Art Bell by calling your in-country Sprint Access number,
pressing option 5 and dialing toll free 800-825-5033.
From coast to coast and worldwide on the Internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
I now refer you to the photographs on my website, on the website, on our website, the website, coasttocoastam.com.
When you get there, You'll see some EBE drawings.
Now these are representations done by Mr. McDonald of extraterrestrial beings, EBEs.
And there are about four different types, or maybe two different types, not four I think, four different types shown here.
And I want you to get those pictures up on your screen if you can, because in a moment I'm going to ask Bill to describe everything he knows About the physical characteristics, the biology, anything he can tell us about these extraterrestrial beings.
Stay right where you are.
Once again, the picture is...
We have a man here who has drawn them and who, according to his own testimony so far, excuse me, information, this is not a courtroom, has talked to us about extraterrestrial presence.
Now, I want to direct your attention to your own pictures here.
Bill, with the forensic study you've done and the information you've gathered in interviews, everything else, what can you tell us about the beings How much detail can you give me on any and all types you know about?
Well, let's see if I can sketch the whole situation out for you.
I've interviewed probably over 400 people where I actually put some time and effort into it.
Out of those, 38 were people that I found credible And who I found to not be either mentally ill or victims of childhood sexual abuse or any one of a plethora of other options that would lead them into a fantasy life.
Okay.
And with those 38 individuals... Right, a composite of what they said, what can you tell me about these beings?
And cross-reference to the surveys from other people's research, I came across approximately 17 species of Xenomorph or non-terrestrial organisms that were vaguely humanoid in shape.
That sounds about right.
Of those 17, 11 of them, I'm committed to 11 species, which includes multiple subspecies, castes, races, however you want to arrange them.
And regarding those 11 species, I'm known for my drawings, which are on my website, and two of those types are actually presented tonight on Coast to Coast on their website.
Thank you, Lex.
Let's start with E.B.E.
2, because E.B.E.
2 is easy.
Would he be the one on the top right?
He would be the little gray guy, absolutely.
No, wait a minute.
Well, I'm looking at the enlarged photograph here, and there are four pictures.
I want to be sure I've got it right.
The one on the top right and the one on the bottom right.
Top right is kind of yellowish, actually.
Well, that's because he's under harsh, harsh lights on an autopsy table.
All right, so we are talking about top right.
Top right and bottom right.
You're looking at dead EBE-2 and live EBE-2.
And they're blue-gray in color.
They have the big black eyes.
They are the gray that everybody knows and loves.
They are the abductor aliens.
I'm not sure everybody loves them.
Oh, you know how popular they are.
Well, okay.
The generally depicted gray.
Yeah, that's a better way of putting it.
I mean, somehow it's leaked out.
I want to know as much as I can about what they're made up of, what their bodies are like.
Well, there's several versions of descriptions regarding EBE2 that makes people wonder if they aren't a cybernetic organism, which means partially living tissue and partially machined system.
There are other people that believe that they are the ultimate evolution of are i should say
artificial that it type evolution
exhibiting characteristics of both uh... a primate in its maximum of off state
and a petition will do you believe that he'd be to as you have depicted here has
been put on a table and dissected all absolutely
Absolutely.
Then have there been leaks as to the results of those dissections and what's inside these guys?
Well, there are so many leaks from so many directions that, again, in surveying the information, this is the short gray out of three separate casts that are commonly represented in UFO research of gray aliens and are the most common aliens described by abductees and other witnesses.
And the only difference between this alien described in Psalm 1-01's leaked Air Force document that Bob and Ryan Wood are investigating quite diligently, I might add, is that tiny little keel that you see on the crest of the head.
Nobody else describes that.
In fact, everybody else describes, in lieu of a keel, A transverse line that's sunken in a little bit, giving the head more of a heart shape.
Especially Bill Youhouse and a lot of folks out of Las Vegas described the aliens they saw as having a slight depression rather than a keel.
Either way, Bill, how long, how big are these aliens?
Anywhere from two and a half to almost four feet in height, but no higher.
They are the short Very small.
Greys.
They're roughly the size of a first or second grade child.
Alright.
Their arms are slightly longer in proportion to their bodies.
Their legs are slightly shorter in proportion to their bodies.
They look emaciated and weak.
They look emaciated and weak, but they are surprisingly dexterous with their hands and with Very flexible in the way in which their bodies move.
Yes, I can see there'd be a lot of articulation possible with what I see here, but it would be, by our standards, very physically weak, right?
Absolutely, but the most significant thing to me is the eyes.
If you look at any organism on Earth, Art, whether it's a horse, one of your cats, or a whale out in the ocean, the eyes ...are generally the same size and comparable to the size of a human.
In other words, there's very little variance between the eye of a cat, the width of the orb, the diameter of the orb, of a human eye, an ape's eye, a cat's eye, a large cat's eye, the eye of a horse, the eye of a hippopotamus, or the eye of a whale.
Um, eyes can be smaller, but you don't see eyes much, with two exceptions, there's, you don't see eyes getting bigger.
And the reason why is, eyes, we have only two of them.
Was Betty Davis.
Yeah, yeah.
And if you have only two of them, and you're running around the environment, and you poke them out on a twig, you're out.
Yeah.
So, when you see something with enormous eyes, proportionally to the rest of the body, the way you do with the greys, that It tends to confirm what other witnesses are saying about the insides of UFOs.
Furnishings seem to grow out of the floor.
They don't look bolted down.
The walls are all curved, especially anything that's rectangular has soft or rounded edges.
There's no sharp points inside.
Well, what does that have to do with the eyes?
Well, that means that they're probably bred to an artificial environment where you don't have sharp rock outcroppings, where you don't have twigs, where you don't have Things growing in nature that could poke those eyes out.
Okay, that's a good point, I guess.
This is something that most people don't think about.
Like I said, if you look at the sperm whale out in the ocean, Art, the thing that's going to blow your mind is how tiny his eyes are in proportion to his total body mass.
If you look at a horse's eye orb, it's only about a third bigger than a human eye.
And yet, look at the mass, the size of the horse.
Do you lean toward the half-alien, half-biological, half-machine theory, or do you lean toward the... Artificially bred theory.
You lean toward that?
Yeah, I believe that they were genetically manipulated either by their forebears or by themselves to an artificial, sterile, Possibly low, slightly lower atmospheric pressure environment and warm, possibly even a moist environment with slightly lower atmospheric pressure, slightly lower gravity.
Do they appear to conduct themselves in an individually intellectual manner, or do they appear robotic-like in their behavior?
The small ones appear robotic-like.
The taller ones, not represented in this group of drawings, seem to be more autonomous, and they seem to be able to make decisions.
I believe that there are three general casts of grace.
You have your worker ones that are obedient, diligent, and get the job done.
You have your administrative class, which is what a lot of the abductees call the doctors, the ones that are taller, that can be anywhere from four and a half to six feet in height, and seem to be directing the movements of the others around them.
And then there's what I call the ancients, the ancient arbiters.
It's as if they are a hive society, and that in these individual factions they are led by a mantis-type being, which was also described to you in one of your shows recently, of a praying mantis-type alien.
I believe that those are basically living beings whose brains are like living computers, and that they probably interface With some master computer or master collective or master artificial intelligence collective, you know, they probably direct a fleet of vehicles rather than just one.
And that the others function in the piloting of their spacecraft is multiple brain processor nodes.
And a whole segment of tonight's interview needs to be about why machines require organic minds.
Well, I was about to ask you whether you were just saying they, in essence, report to a machine.
Some of the factions, according to another guest of yours, Dr. Philip Sauter, suggest that with some of the factions, the machines have taken over.
And in some of the factions, the organics still control Um, you know, the game.
So again, it depends on the different factions.
Remember, you have factions with either homogenous or multiple species, ranching earth populations, treating this planet as an oasis, and they're basically bedwinds in space.
And part of my hypothesis is based on just taking a look out for 50 light years in any direction from the solar system And what do you have?
Mostly red dwarfs and dead planets and gas giants.
Yeah.
Worlds like ours are very few and far between if they exist at all, and the reason I say that is because, percentage-wise, only a tiny percentage of the stars within a 50 light-year radius in any direction are yellow, medium, stable stars.
Have you ever seen the times ten Demonstration, Bill, and that's where you start.
Oh, I don't know, ten light years away from Earth, and you progressively come toward Earth at a power of ten until you finally descended into the atoms of a leaf or some such.
Anyway, it is so impressive in the sense that though we are an oasis with respect to our nearby bodies, in the very larger picture of, you know, ten light years out, We're not even a gleam in anybody's even large gray eye, you would think.
Yeah, but it's mostly vacuum and heavy metals and gases like hydrogen and other light elements.
And there's not a lot of organic material out there proportionally compared to Again, the heavy elements in the burnout planets and the dying stars, and there's not a lot of water out there compared to what you can find in our solar system.
Now, we would stand out if you were near enough to see us or hear us.
It's just that, God, the distances, Bill, the distances, light years upon light years, we're just a speck of imaginary nothing.
Agreed.
There is an absolute necessity, in my opinion, for the few worlds within what I call our near-known space area that are able to support organic life, that are protected sufficiently from intergalactic and interstellar radiation, that are sufficiently protected from solar radiation.
And of course, you and George have been real busy with the solar radiation business That's my number one argument as to why we are an oasis and that our survival, and you might remember, I told you this back in November 22nd of 2002.
I said, if we go, they go.
I still believe that, Art.
Without us, without our genetic material, without liquid water, without boron and beryllium.
And they're on a regular basis, they're taking all of this, including our genetic material.
Abducting people and taking what they need and this is sustaining them.
That and the water and minerals they take and whatever all else.
So they need us that much, is what you're saying.
Absolutely, because Art, you can only clone so many stem cells.
If you go into nature and you look at the reproduction of nematodes, which is a simple worm form, one of the earliest forms of life on earth, They can reproduce sexually or they can reproduce asexually.
But there is something about the ones that reproduce sexually by exchanging genetic material from different individuals that allows those individuals to adapt to environmental changes faster and with better results than the ones that reproduce asexually simply by replicating their own genetic materials.
I believe that the same exists for simple stem cells.
You harvest stem cells from fetuses, and you harvest stem cells from human brains of young children, and you harvest stem cells from, you know, a variety of sources.
But, you know, I didn't believe that there were a lot of abductions taking place in the world, and yet you have Peter Davenport saying, well, there's many UFOs in our skies on a daily basis, as there are cars on the road, by some analogies.
There are people like Bud and Dave that are saying that abductions are more common than any of us have given us credit for.
Well, there has to be a reason why.
And because I'm an artist, I get to speculate wildly, whereas other people's reputations preclude them from doing so.
And when you survey other people's information, common patterns tend to come out.
And because I'm a forensic illustrator, because I'm a private investigator, I can create some conclusions here based on what I'm seeing.
And I can't get crucified the way other people can, so I'm going ahead and I'm saying, well, why?
Why is it that we have to, if we're all getting abducted, and if different multiple species factions... Well, we're not all getting abducted, but even people who suggest that as many as, say, 10% of the population are being abducted are making an awfully big claim.
And that's people from every population, every city, every country in the world.
And that's what I mean by everybody.
It's not just happening down in Mexico and Malaysia and Brazil, which is where I go if I wanted to abduct people.
And I'll tell you why in a minute.
They're taking them from everywhere, and there has to be a reason why.
And one of the reasons why is because fresh materials taken from subjects that reproduce sexually are far more viable, far more adaptable, and are far stronger in whatever Manufacturing uses that they're being used in.
Bill, I will say this.
Of the abductees that I've talked to, and that would be many now over the years, when you really push them to the wall with regard to questions about sexual encounters or experimentation in that area being done on them, Almost universally, you get a yes.
Almost universally, you get a yes.
A lot of people don't like to talk about it or admit it, but generally, when you dig in these interviews, you get a yes.
So, whatever is going on is definitely reproductively oriented.
Absolutely.
What is happening, Art, is these species are dying.
And again, I point out EVE2.
Look at the lack of genitalia.
Look at the lack of genitalia.
In fact... Obviously he's been eliminating his spam and just hasn't been... He's been eliminating through his... He's been eliminating through his skin like certain species of frogs.
Sorry, I couldn't resist that, but I mean, you're right, there's...
There's an amphibious quality about these little beings and about the Roswell aliens, which are a slightly smaller version of EBE-1.
All right, Bill, hold that thought.
We're at the top of the hour.
We'll be right back.
Bill McDonald is my guest.
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Well, they do have Betty Davis eyes, don't they?
If these beings are really here among us, interested in us, particularly so because we apparently have this wonderfully diverse genetic arrangement within, whatever the reason, if they're really here and they're really examining us, abducting us, interacting with us, then we need to know as much about them, I would think, as we can learn.
That's what Bill McDonald is here for.
he'll be right back.
Bill, with all you've studied with regard to these beings, and all things considered, would you suggest that people should regard these beings as friends or enemies?
Oh, absolutely.
They are harvesting us.
We are livestock to them.
Enemies is the answer.
The enemies is the answer.
They are taking and they are not leaving anything behind that we can use, as far as I can tell.
I believe that they are a threat, ultimately, in some ways.
I believe that the majority of the factions have very little consideration for the things we value, such as family, stability, living our lives without being molested.
I mean, Assuming the government knows more about them and their motives than we do, probably a safe assumption, if they are our enemies, are they also our government's enemies?
Well, that's a very complicated question, and I'll tell you what Colonel Corso told me.
Okay.
He said that we've been in a permanent state of war since the government first got Some clue as to what was going on in the mid to late 1930s.
You know, one of the things that just absolutely upsets Dr. Greer more than any other thing is when he mentions the fact that we have shot at UFOs.
Shot at them.
Colonel Corso said that we shoot at them all the time.
Yeah, so our enemy then is indeed our government's enemy as well.
According to All of my sources, surveyed, composited, and combined.
The vast majority of factions, and when I say factions, I mean they're like little tribes, technological tribes of space bedouins.
I know this sounds like something out of Lost in Space, but that's what it's like.
And they have each carved out territories comparable to the way Australia and North America was carved up by the cattle barons in the 1800s and that these factions then harvest from communities and populations what they need and that sometimes they are in conflict with each other and sometimes they are in some kind of alliance with each other temporarily albeit on occasion
There is a diplomatic mission between them and key specific individuals within the military-industrial complex.
Starting to sound like gangs and drugs and territory.
Absolutely.
What it sounds like is Saudi Arabia and Palestine when T.S.
Lawrence arrived during the First World War.
Only technologically advanced.
Different tribes, sometimes an alliance, Sometimes, you know, enemies of each other, competing.
Like cattle barons.
The analogy of the cattle barons is the closest thing I can come to, to the sheep barons and the cattle barons of Australia and the Western United States, you know, in the 1800s, the 1850s.
Remember folks, we're the cattle or the sheep, as the case may be.
Absolutely, we are the livestock.
Why do you think, Bill, that most UFOs, so many UFO researchers, New Age types, They think that these aliens, these beings, are warm, fuzzy little creatures who have come to save us from the sins of our own environmental nastiness or some other great beneficial motive like that.
They love these people.
They think they're just cats.
Meow.
Do you really want me to speak honestly?
Oh, of course I do.
I'm going to upset some people, Art.
Well, we do that a lot here.
Okay.
There's two reasons why.
The first reason why is that among those factions there's probably a small percentage that has warm and fuzzy feelings toward us the way some little kids take to a lamb or a turkey that doesn't get slaughtered.
You know what I'm saying?
In other words, on occasion there might be a faction that has interest in preserving us The way you and I would want to preserve the last surviving troops of mountain gorillas, and the last surviving troops of lowland gorillas, and the last wild chimpanzee colonies.
You know, I am so for the protection... We could call them animal activists.
Exactly.
We could call them animal activists, and they're a small percentage.
Other than those... Other than those, the majority of the People in the UFO community that I have crossed swords with over the years.
It's like they're looking for a new religion.
It's like they're disillusioned with the religious choices they have.
Yes.
And so they're trying to turn all this into some new religion.
You know, in the B.C.
times it was polytheistic religion.
In the A.D.
times it was monotheistic religion.
And now they're looking for space brothers.
Because, you know, the monotheistic religions of the world are killing in the name of God and the hypocrisy and everything that we see on a daily basis if we track CNN like I do.
And remember, I maintain a timeline of human history, Art, going all the way back 33 million years to the time that the first chimpanzee in the woods decided to start foraging in the grasslands, and he had to stand up on his hind legs all the time to keep from getting ambushed by saber-toothed leopards.
My timeline goes all the way back to that, and when you track the evolution of mankind in chronological order, up to and including what's going on in Iraq today, you see some patterns of behavior that You know, your observations conflict with what organized religion is trying to tell you.
And what I'm trying to tell you is there are a lot of people clinging to something because they can't stand on their own two feet, have a direct relationship with God, and understand there's a lot going on in this universe that none of us understand.
See what I'm saying?
Oh well.
I get frustrated with it because I listen to people talk about all of this stuff, and I live in a neck of the woods where every third family is a Mormon, and every third family is a fundamentalist, charismatic, A Pentecostalist, and every third family is Roman Catholic, and every third family is Lutheran, and everybody's knocking on my door.
I mean, where I live, even the Southern Baptists knock on the door and try to get you to go to their church.
And, you know, I'm sitting here trying to figure out, you know, which faction is which, and which species is which, and, you know, the Human Genome Program.
I mean, people wonder what the real Word of God is, Art, and I'm going to upset some people, because you know what the ultimate Word of God is?
I'm listening.
The DNA genome.
The DNA strand.
The sequenced DNA strand.
You mean that strand that we just unraveled and are getting ready to play with?
That strand?
You got it, Art.
Compare what that strand tells us about ourselves to what's in the fossil record, and there you have the true word of God.
Now that's going to upset people.
Probably.
Yes, probably.
Um, but so all these people then are either genuinely, uh, being approached by a very small minority of friendly aliens or the great majority of them are just, what, taken in?
Just, uh, what?
They are taken?
And cells are harvested.
There's three kinds of cells that they take.
But what I mean is, why do they have so much more of a positive attitude than they ought to have under the circumstances?
I mean, if you're hauled up into a spaceship, put on a table, and stuff is ripped out of you, you're going to have an attitude about that in the normal scheme of things.
Okay, well now you're looking at the psychology of male rape.
Okay?
When, and this is going to upset a lot of people too, but forensic anthropology and behavioral anthropology demonstrates that rape against females by males has been perpetrated for as long as human beings have been human beings.
In fact, we've even observed the behavior in chimpanzees.
However, it is common, but not as common, male-on-male rape.
And in societies as they exist today, victims of male rape trauma are emotionally shattered by the experience.
They certainly can't go to anybody for help because that will complete the process of shattering them emotionally that was perpetrated on them by their attacker.
And they have real problems.
A lot of male rape victims end up committing suicide and things like that.
And this is when they're attacked in a process that they can understand.
It's another human being, maybe somebody they knew, maybe it's in prison, maybe it's in the street, maybe it's... Fine, all that said, I still don't understand how... I'm getting there.
Please.
Some people, when they're abducted by aliens, the experience is so overwhelming, male or female, that they get kind of a version of Stockholm Syndrome in their heads.
They have to attach some kind of religious significance or some kind of spiritual significance to the experience in order to keep your identity, in order to keep from psychologically shattering, in order to have a reason to go on living.
Alright, I've got it.
So you believe it to be a self-protective device of the brain that sets up a shield that says to you, wow, you just had an experience with something supernatural?
Way beyond anybody's control, and it wasn't what it seemed.
It was somehow wonderful.
A complex psychological process of protection is exactly what I believe, and it is my opinion that that is.
Now remember, I'm not a psychologist.
I don't have a PhD, and I'm sure there are a number who will take me to task, but that's what I believe.
I believe that When you submit human beings to the kind of trauma that laboratory analysis does to living mice and rats, that the experience is so emotionally shattering the majority of individuals that it is the only way that they can hold on to life as they knew it.
It's the only way they can maintain relationships.
The concept has merit.
Kind of like the god part of the brain when Alper's on.
Alright, back to these beings themselves.
So we have different classes.
We have some that are part biology and part perhaps machine.
We have different classes.
Did any of the autopsies that had been performed leak out at all?
In other words, you would get details.
We remove such and such an organ and so forth.
The answer to your question is there were a number of hoaxed sources and there were a couple of reliable sources.
The first one is the descriptions that were provided to Leonard H. Stringfield in the 1950s, the identities of those individuals of which he took to his grave.
And they described the Preliminary autopsy examination of at least one of the Roswell aliens before they were shipped out to different destinations.
Can you recall any of the details of that autopsy?
Oh, of course.
The Roswell alien is similar to the EBE-1 type alien, except it's slightly shorter.
It's about the size of a child, a large child in kindergarten.
They have tiny, tiny beaded scales for skin, similar to what you see on albino baby Hawaiian geckos.
That's under macroscopic examination.
Under microscopic examination, it's an artificial screen mesh, similar to a nylon screen under the microscope, which means that they did not have semipermeable tissue, which is able to hold in water and hold out you know of bar bacteria shot bacteria from riding them
while they were alive therefore they had to have been in case in a fluid that was
sterile which would have been their life support system and probably also the
ballast by which the rosswell shot ship used for cambered flight in the atmosphere and underwater as to what
happened when they hit the atmosphere
well what uh... my hypothesis on that is based on all the testimonies is that on
it hit stuart bogles ranch first and then it ended up on the mcknight rich
wayland later on with Well, no, I meant biologically with what you just described.
Oh!
Well, let me put it a different way.
When our atmosphere hit them... What happened was the portion of the upper Port side fuselage and wing shattered by incredible energies from a lightning bolt.
An upstroke that came from the ground and hit it on the magnetic grid portion of the belly of the ship.
An overload occurred in the upper hull and it sheared away and at least two of the flight crew, there were seven seats, were probably sucked out immediately along with a portion of the fluid.
The fluid was the ballast.
The thing was able to recover its energy fields and then it skipped into Boggand after carving a gouge in the ground at the Foster Ranch, which is now owned by Stuart Vogel.
It then skipped into Boggand over the hilltops and there were glassified scuffs found in different locations between the Foster Ranch and what became the McKnight Ridgeway grazing lands in those days.
Well, you know what, that still wasn't the answer to the question I really was asking.
However, it was a hell of an answer anyway.
Well, the fluid, what happened, Art, was the fluid was like an oxygenated fluorocarbon and it evaporated completely so that the inside of the ship was bone dry once it was sticking in the side of the arroyo like a dart in a dart.
Right.
And that caused the five remaining flight crew members to die horribly.
They died of massive dehydration, rapid onset infection from earth bacteria, and probably the shock of impact as well.
They did not have burns, which was probably because they had had that fluid cocoon during the initial lightning strike, and they just died horribly within minutes.
But the interesting thing that Frank Coffman always said that blew my mind was that when he and his team found them, they had expressions of angelic innocence on their little baby faces.
Even though they had died a horrible death by dehydration and infection.
And the other thing that was so shocking is that Frank and those guys, remember they were all World War II veterans.
And that the United States Army Counterintelligence Corps mission was collecting intelligence against the Japanese in the Japanese theater, and collecting spies who specialized in the collection of intelligence against the Russians in the European theater.
Back up one second.
You described eloquently, I thought, the crash that you believe took place.
There are those who say, come on!
They had gravity generators.
They were able to manipulate gravity with the craft they had.
And that's how they were able to navigate into stellar space, even navigate within the atmosphere.
A lightning bolt is not going to take out such a forceful machine, such a capable machine.
If you can manipulate gravity, I mean, even airliners survive lightning strikes.
Remember what I said about different factions?
Different factions have different levels of advanced technology within their vehicles.
In those days, different types of vehicles were being observed.
The disc vehicles were not very common.
However, the winged, aero-winged type vehicles, whether scalloped shape or batarang shape, were commonly observed at that time.
This ship that crashed at Roswell was much smaller than the ships described by Kenneth Arnold, which were roughly the size of a Douglas DC-4, which was a four-engine cargo or passenger aircraft.
It was tiny.
It was less than 32 feet in length and less than 25 feet wide.
And it was a skiff.
It was an aerospace transmedium skiff.
It was designed, in my opinion, to go from orbit, where a mothership would launch and recover it, through the atmosphere, riding the atmosphere like a shockwave.
You know what a wave rider is?
Yes, I do.
So you think then that this was something dispatched, one of the very early ones, where perhaps they weren't familiar with the effects of our atmosphere, or who knows what, but one of the very early ones to dispatch the one that crashed?
Not at all.
We have to lose the term early.
Or rather, I should say, testimony suggests that this has been going on for over 100,000 years.
Uh, no.
Well, then you'd think they'd know how to deal with lightning, then.
No, it's a hive society.
What they dispatched was a short-range reconnaissance craft piloted by artificial lifeforms that were bred to operate said craft.
All right, all right, all right.
And that they were throwaways, like, you know, worker bees out of a hive.
Bill, hold on a moment.
We're at the bottom of the hour.
Bill McDonald is here.
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An interview this night with Bill McDonald.
he's telling us all about once again bill mcdonald
Oh, by the way, I want to remind everybody out there, actually, if you don't get all of Coast to Coast AM seven days a week at your radio station, then you might want to give them a call on Monday and inquire, why the heck not?
That said, Bill, Welcome back.
Listen, were those autopsy leaked results specific at all with regard to what kind of organs they had compared to ours?
Tell us so much about perhaps what kind of atmosphere they came from and world they lived in.
Some of them did their breathing in a liquid, which is the Roswell aliens, and abductees have routinely described grays Being encased in cylinders of fluid or gel for, you know, what might be a recharge period or, you know, a period of nutrition and, you know, expulsion of waste.
Well, I hate to be crude here, but I mean, did they yank the guts out and find out if they had hearts, lungs, livers?
Yes.
The hearts were Fully developed, and the brains were thoroughly developed, and in some cases with more convolutions than what humans or Orcinus orca, the killer whale, has.
However, the lungs in many of them were found to be vestigial, and the digestive system even more so.
The throats could swallow A substance similar to a pablum could have been ingested that way and then utilized by the bodies.
The elementary canal was vestigial and closed off.
They could not evacuate their bowels the way terrestrial life does.
They could not in any way, shape, or form urinate as far as anybody could tell.
Complex, you know, like the liver and everything like that.
There were organ structures similar to a liver, but they came in different shapes.
And interesting enough, with that alien autopsy hoax that Rayson Tilly put out, and I don't think he was the perpetrator of the hoax.
I think he just saw a good thing and put it out there.
Oh, I know that to be sure.
I don't want anybody to think that Ray... I talked to him, and I know damn well he was sincere at the time.
Whatever it was, he thought he had his hands on the real McCoy.
No question about it.
That funny organ that you saw where a liver would be in the initial shots?
Yes.
Well, that's a live, green California abalone that's been shucked of its shell and stuffed in there.
And if you're a scuba diver in California, you know what I'm talking about.
Also that carapace structure that functioned for a rib cage.
Yes.
How many people, you know, eat crawfish anywhere from Memphis to New Orleans like I have, they'll recognize what they were seeing there.
It was a very excellent special effect perpetrated at first on the body of a girl who had probably died of Down Syndrome.
Not Turners, but Downs, because you get that kind of swelling.
And in a certain percentage of Down Syndrome cases, the sexual organs do not develop, even as they enter young adulthood.
And they also die before the age of 40 in many cases.
How confident are you, Centilli Film aside again, and back to the leaked information, that what you're telling me is good info?
I'm very confident that my info is good, both about using a dead girl who had Down Syndrome for the hoax, And I'm very confident in the material that I got from Leonard H. Stringfield and from the Psalm 1-01 document that Bob and Ryan Wood are checking out, which was another leak.
Unfortunately, the autopsy photos were not provided along with the manual and those two drawings of the dead aliens on the vintage porcelain autopsy tables, and you'll notice they're not steel, they're porcelain on linoleum.
With trays that are painted in enamel.
They're vintage to the 1930s through the late 1950s.
And if you look at the dissection tools, they're like what you see in a high school.
That's what those guys used back then.
These are authentic autopsy materials.
You'll see the old rulers and stuff that are in the drawings.
That's all vintage to those times and those days.
Pathologists and folks like that in the military In the 30s, 40s, and 50s, they used simple tools in order to record their findings.
Like I said, there was a complex liver organ that was similar in shape to the abalone that was stuffed into the fake alien.
Do you suppose that the Santilli film, the presumption is that it was a fake?
I studied some of the same material that you're studying now in order to put it together.
Do I believe that it was a deliberate type of disinformation to make us step on ourselves and embarrass ourselves publicly?
Yes, absolutely.
To make us step on ourselves and embarrass ourselves and humiliate ourselves publicly.
Yes, that's exactly what it was intended for.
Steve Neal and I figured out That we probably could reproduce the same effect in either one of our garages for about $163,000.
Well, that's still a significant investment, but I suppose in the larger scheme of things, not that big.
And we could build a multi-layer cast for the dissected body.
Okay, back to the real McCoy.
What do we know about the way they interacted?
Do we know anything about how they interacted with the craft itself?
Well, now that is the reason why I got in touch with Stephanie, and that is why we're on tonight, Art.
This is the big deal, and this is huge.
Okay.
I went on the record with Hal Puthoff a few months ago, and also John Schuessler, and I very boldly told Hal that even though I'm an artist and not a physicist, I know that the device that he wants to build to test a warp drive engine sometime in the next decade will not work.
Unless he has a living human somehow wired into the system.
Because I don't believe you can navigate hyperspace using any kind of sophisticated computer.
Even if you have a computer that can crunch 35 coordinate, you know, coordinate point coordinates.
Even if you can navigate five axes instead of the normal three.
You're still going to end up lost in time, lost in space, or lost in another dimension, and you're going to be nowhere near your destination or your destination time.
And I also told him that I didn't believe, when you're in the ether, that you can navigate using computers.
I believe, and I sent a long list of questions to Hal, which he then answered in detail, Which confirmed what I was seeing, and that was, and as an artist, I'm seeing this as an artist, not as a mathematician, that the zero-point energy field may in fact be a major constituent of one of the higher dimensions, 5th through 11th, that is postulated mathematically in string theory.
And that, I believe that Mitchell Kaku will back me up on this, that That the zero-point energy field is a constituent that expresses itself in higher dimensions and is a component of hyperspace or the ethereal plane that remote viewers cross between where they are relaxing and where their destination is in time and space.
How does this tell us how they interact with the spacecraft?
How are we getting there from here?
Well, what happens is the flight crews have either a telepathic link or a direct physiological link.
A lot of the abductor discs, those flight crews seem to be telepathically connected to their spacecraft and they usually are like 3 of them or 5 of them or 9 of them or 12 of them.
How are we concluding that?
on the size of the spacecraft and the link seems to be more telepathic between the machinery
and them than direct contact.
How are we concluding that?
I mean, simply by a lack of a mechanism for wires connected to brains?
Or how do we come to that conclusion?
By what the abductees tell me and by what my military sources tell me.
Well, that's a good point.
Abductees do say they have been telepathically, almost universally say they've been telepathically communicated with.
That is true.
And some of them actually see the arrangement by where, you know, the aliens are either standing on the flight deck or where they're sitting.
In some type of reclining chair that, you know, form fits to their bodies.
Correct, yes.
Now the Roswell ship, its crash couches literally grew out of the floor of the vehicle.
And the floor of the vehicle was configured in such a way that it was probably the filtration system for, you know, it was like a fish tank, that cocoon crew cabin that was full of that fluid.
Yes.
And in the Roswell ship, these things morphed out of the floor, kind of like a sea anemone does, and then formed the shape of like a recliner chair of some type that encased their bodies, not totally, but you know, the back half of their bodies where it was in contact, and that they had little tiny tentacle-like quills that remind me of the tiny grasping tentacles That certain species of sea anemones have when they, instead of having the really long whip-like tentacles, they have the tiny little gripper ones.
Absolutely.
And that the backs of these Roswell aliens' heads, I call them alien chimeras, because they're amphibious and they're artificial.
And they're humanoid in appearance, but amphibian in life support.
And their heads would embed in the back of their rest, and one flight crew member's head Embedded in a niche, in the tapering back of the crew cabin, he was the most reclined.
And there was this niche made out of metal that mimicked the back of his head perfectly.
And the back of his head just fit in it.
And that substance, that metal, that niche, it kind of reminds you of a cervix that's dilated.
I know that sounds pretty gross, but that is what Uh, was described to me, and that is what I visualized.
And the head then fit into that niche.
Form-fitted, yeah.
Form-fitted, and he had like a control, a computer screen or a view screen, a small one that morphed out of the ceiling right within his comfortable view.
They had a giant wraparound view screen similar to Enterprise-D, you know, the big Galaxy-class Star Trek ship.
And that wrapped around the entire front where the two pilots were.
And by the way, they only had four fingers.
Well, what we would call the mission specialists, the ones behind them also had opposable thumbs.
And one of them had a joystick-type contraption on the starboard console in the front that form-fitted.
It was like a signature grip.
In other words, his grip alone would have been the only one that it would have responded to.
And they had touch panels with icons on them.
And they were arrayed like keyboards, in sequence.
Touch panels above, touch panels in front, with the view screen wrapping around everything, and everything morphing out of everything else, so that they were encased by their consoles, and encased by their crash couches, and held in place with these little tiny quill-like tentacles, which is where I think Velcro comes from, to be quite honest.
Ha ha ha!
Velcro, really?
Yeah, because if you look at some of those species of sea anemones, Art, and you see the way they grip a fish that's their prey, doesn't that remind you of Velcro, the way they grip and grab?
Yes, in a way.
And have you ever stuck your finger inside a sea anemone?
You know, I hope that we got more than just Velcro from all of this.
You can feel those tentacles, even though the nematocysts can't sting your finger because your skin is too thick.
Yes.
You can feel them gripping into you with their little barbs and holding you.
Now, the aliens' uniforms, their jumpsuits, were made out of a spun metal that would have corresponded perfectly with these little grippers.
Thus, being in a fluid environment and gripped in their crash couches in this way, it's better than having a seatbelt system for a fighter pilot.
Yeah, I suppose so.
Let me jump ahead and ask you, Bill, where you think this spacecraft, obviously, you know, the beings are long gone, dead, but the spacecraft.
Now, that we've still got someplace or another, right?
Well, there's a timeline for where it went.
But not necessarily where it is now.
That's what I was asking you.
Where do you think we might have it now?
Well, your buddy Bob Lazar saw it among the nine spacecraft that he saw parked in those hangars when he was there.
And after that, we lose track of where it went.
I believe it went to some of those Rocky Mountain bases up in Canada.
The most remote air bases in the world, believe it or not, are up in Canada in the Western Rockies.
Well, it sure would be fun to try and find it.
And the Canadians are our allies, don't forget that.
And we shared a lot of stuff with them over the years.
Their F-18s are as good as ours.
And I'm not so sure we'd have given them an alien, or at least put it on their territory.
Somehow I think we would keep it within our own geography, but I could be wrong.
It's a multinational corporate conglomerate that chirps the puppet strings of all of the allied governments.
It's not just the United States.
That's another thing, you know, that people say that I do have some sympathy with Bill.
This is God, it's such a gigantic secret.
I mean, it's a monstrous secret, and the scope of the secret, how far you would have to go to keep it secret, as you just said, you said international.
I mean, it would have to be an international effort to keep it secret.
It doesn't seem like people can keep anything secret, much less something this size.
That's what a lot of critics say.
Well, I'll tell you how easy it is to keep it a secret.
In 1969, it is The composite of the information that I got the President Nixon during the moonshots divorced this entire system from government over to the private sector.
Now in the private sector you don't have civil servants on civil servant paychecks and civil servant pensions.
Instead you have people that are getting paid like my father did at Rockwell International for all the years that he worked on Project Keyhole and when he worked at Strategic Systems Division Which was the old Ottenetics facility in East Anaheim, California.
And when you're making the kind of salary that my father was making, it's a whole lot easier to get people to keep the secret.
Because they got a whole lot more to lose than some civil servant who served in the United States Army Counterintelligence Corps, or some retired CIA agent.
You see what I'm saying?
Or some military pilot.
They're making a whole lot more money.
And it's all about the money.
And it's about following the money.
And every good detective follows the money.
And why the big secret?
Again, it's about money and economics.
Introducing more advanced products with more advanced technologies over years and generations and reaping in massive amounts of money, rather than upsetting every single consumer and getting them so that they don't want to buy this year's computers, and they don't want to buy this year's Ford Taurus, and they don't want this year's SUV, and they don't want this year's Microsoft software.
They want Star Trek software.
They want Star Trek shuttles.
They want Star Trek this, and Star Trek that, and Star Trek medicine, because they know it exists.
And all of a sudden, the consumer base is gone.
The whole retail sector is just trash.
People stop buying and start demanding.
And all of a sudden, the economy unravels.
It's about economics, Art.
It's economics.
Power on Earth is economics.
Well, that's probably true.
And a multinational corporate conglomerate with a budget bigger than Microsoft, with less than 250 people total, controls access to what's going on since 1969.
And the men in black and all of those guys that you've heard about?
Yes.
That is the people that work underneath a board of directors that's less than 30 individuals.
Those 30 individuals either have the entire big picture or portions of the big picture with whoever the director and the VPs are having the whole picture and probably the archivist as well.
Alright, listen, we're at the top of the hour.
When we come back, I would like to Have you answer a few questions for the audience, because by now I guarantee you they've got quite a few, okay?
Outstanding.
Okay.
That's coming up.
Bill McDonald is my guest from the high desert.
This is Coast to Coast AM.
indeed a living thing.
Oh, rollin' and rollin' and sleepin' and slidin' it's magic.
And you, can't you see it's all right?
You...
...baby on a shoulder.
The sun is setting like molasses in the sky.
I love you, Samuel, I have you in my heart.
Everything's always wanting more It ain't your longing for
Black Velvet and that little boy's smile Black Velvet with that slow southern style
A new religion that'll bring her to me Black Velvet, if you please
with Art Bell. Call the Wildcard line at area code The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll free at 800-825-5033.
From west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll free at 800-825-5033.
From west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255.
International callers may reach Art by calling your in-country Sprint app.
access number pressing option 5 and dialing toll-free 800-893-0903.
From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
Boy, it should be fun. I mean, we're going to open up the phone lines and allow all of you to ask Bill McDonald,
who speaks with quite a bit of authority and assurance on exactly what these creatures are all about,
their intentions toward us, the whole thing. He knows so much about it all
that putting your questions together with Bill McDonald is going to be interesting, and that's coming right up.
.
So much to talk about with Bill McDonald.
Bill, welcome back.
Is there anything, before we go to the phones, that we haven't squeezed in yet that you'd like to get in?
Yeah, let me grab a couple of things while we've got a minute.
What I've been trying to say all night is basically this.
Artificial intelligence is the primary operating system that makes UFOs fly.
However, an AI cortex just cannot operate at maximum efficiency without multiple organic humanoid minds networked with it in an omni-directional array, allowing for what's called diversified or distributed processing.
If you contain your AI in one system unit, Art, a lot of people believe, and it's been demonstrated at Silicon Valley and several other places, that the system will stop functioning or might, in fact, go cyber-insane, cyber-psychosis.
Really?
In a more advanced system, you'd call it biomemetic psychosis.
That a machine system that becomes self-aware cannot function with that knowledge.
The knowledge just shuts it down.
That the solution to that is to network living minds as multiple and distributed processors into the system in order to keep it stable.
What we're talking about is having distributed processing to achieve convergent solutions, such as where to take our spacecraft or our time ship.
Uh, and with our intended prescribed emergent behaviors, which is the actual space fold or jump.
Or, you know, just steering it the way Bob Lazar talked about, where you aim two of your amplifiers in a particular direction, and then slide downhill in that direction, belly first.
But, going back, you said artificial intelligence cannot survive The concept of its own being.
Apparently, for some reason, and Arthur C. Clarke was the first person that I ever heard of who came up with this idea, and that's with the SMOBIAS loop from the HAL 9000 computers breakdown in 2001 of Space Odyssey.
And a number of people that Michael Crichton has talked to over the years, and a number of people that, um, a number of individuals from Silicon Valley that I've talked to, I've asked them about artificial life and AI, And they say the problem is you can't put it all together in one brain.
They just believe that you're going to get a problem like they did with Colossus, the Forbin Project.
You'll have different degrees of psychosis or neurotic behavior.
Why not just tell this machine, once it becomes self-aware, that we created it, and that we are God, and that if it's a good machine, it'll go to heaven, and if it's a bad machine, it'll go to hell, and keep it under control that way.
Well, if it doesn't work on us, what makes you think it's going to work on a machine?
I can't get my six-year-old or my two-year-old to do what I want most of the time.
Can you imagine?
Not even my cat will come when I call it.
All right, well, look, to the phones we go.
Let's see what's out there, all right?
First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Bill McDonald.
Yeah, hi.
Hello.
Yeah, it's you.
Where are you, sir?
Where are you, sir?
Where are you?
I'm in Colorado and my name's David.
Okay.
I love you guys.
I'm just wondering though why I have to take this at 3 o'clock in the morning.
I wish it was during the day.
Well, because this is the kind of thing you talk about at night, not during the day.
Well, I guess that's as good an answer as any.
The best you're going to get.
And Bill, I've got a couple of questions for you.
Really, they're just philosophical.
I'll throw them out there.
I'm not even going to give you an answer.
Just something to mull over.
I'm searching for truth, and you guys have covered some wonderful topics, especially the extraterrestrial subject.
Very mind-broadening, and makes people think.
Many people, of course, don't want to open their minds to these things.
The fundamentalists, of course, will tell you it's the work of the devil, as we've heard in the last few shows.
Well, thinking is good.
I believe that's what we're here for.
In fact, that's pretty much answered my question.
Bill mentioned artificial intelligence, and you guys were just talking about that.
I find a greater question, perhaps, would be where does real intelligence come from, and what is its nature?
And we were talking about the ETs.
What are they doing here?
Well, you've raised a good point.
I mean, we really don't understand our own intelligence, and we're still trying to come to terms with the fact that we are.
You know, I mean, we're constantly asking, you know, why are we here?
What's all this about?
We're trying to grasp that.
So I guess an artificially intelligent machine might have the same problems magnified.
It's my opinion that once our artificially intelligent machines are themselves functional and in use in society, we will discover that they languish or are degraded In ways, if they're not merged with a biological mind, that the biological mind provides a metaphysical something that without, whether you're human or whether you're a machine, you're degraded, you're unfinished, you're unable to function.
Makes us a valuable commodity.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Bill McDonald.
Hello.
Hello.
Yes, hello.
Yeah, are you talking to me?
I am.
Oh, good.
All right.
I'm sure glad to talk to you.
I've missed you for a long time.
I'm glad to see you back on here.
Happy to be here.
This is Bob.
I'm in Illinois listening to you on Big KTRS.
Yes, sir.
And I got a question about, you remember, some years back, you got all those parts that were made out of some weird combinations of... Oh, you're referring to popularly known as arts parts.
Right.
From parts allegedly from the Roswell crash.
Yes, sir.
What about them?
Well, I was wondering if your guest might have some kind of information about that particular combination of materials, if he relies on the makeup of any of those spacecrafts, that is.
And the second question was, are those aliens capable of physically attacking us?
You know what I mean, with a big mothership, like on Independence Day, you know.
Are they physically capable of attacking us if we were to start a war against them and hang up?
All righty, well that's pretty good ammunition, so let's fire away here.
I guess the first one first.
Are you aware, Bill, of the fact that I was sent what was purported to be pieces of a spacecraft from Roswell?
Yes, sir, because I've been listening to you since 1995.
However, I was never made privy to what the people that you had analyzed the material had come up with.
It was anomalous.
Nobody knows how it was made, or could duplicate it, or anything else.
I mean, it might as well be from another world.
And speaking of that, it was tested at Carnegie, and had radiation levels of things that shouldn't be 60 times normal, and all kinds of interesting things about it.
It pretty much wasn't made on Earth, is what we have come up with.
Now, I don't know if that makes it part of a spaceship, but it sure makes it weird as hell.
And someone sent it to me, and I've got pieces of it.
Is there a report that you'd be willing to share with me under confidential?
In other words, I would keep the material you sent to me confidential so that I can compare it to all of my stuff, and then I'll change it back to the report.
And I'm telling you, it has been analyzed to death.
I mean, analyzed to death.
Is there a report that I can read?
There are all kinds of reports, yeah.
Sure.
I would love to have a crack at some of this stuff so that I could compare it To what Paul Davids and Jess Michelle Jr.
had with this 99% pure piece of silicon that is similar to Bakelite that was recovered at the Roswell crash and which is most likely used to shield the Roswell flight crew from microwave radiation, which is a byproduct of magneto-aero-electro-dynamic flight in an atmosphere.
This is bismuth and magnesium and more aligned and layered in ways that humans can't even begin to duplicate.
It's really weird stuff, my friend.
If you could make me privy to a report or a conclusion, I'd be very grateful.
I can arrange that.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Bill McDonald.
Hello.
Hi, Bill.
Great show tonight.
I was wanting to know, Bill, a few things.
I was wanting to know if you could expound on the $1.25 trillion per year that the government hides in the black budget, and if you could expound a little bit more on the average depth of the mile-deep underground military bases that are around the country.
There's approximately 129 of them.
And the third was if you could tell the people a little about if you knew about Phil Schneider.
Thank you.
Okay.
First of all, I don't know Phil Schneider.
I don't know a thing about him.
What about the underground bases?
Underground bases.
A lot of people that I consider trustworthy colleagues study underground bases all the time.
I believe that there is a network of super highways with maglev trains traveling in the center median.
Running underground between China Lake, California and numerous other locations, probably to include Cheyenne Mountain, which is near Colorado Springs, where NORAD is.
Probably to include Area 51.
I can't imagine it not going there.
But most likely also running up into Utah, Area 6413, which is the old Michael's Army Airfield.
Done with some sort of boring machines, coring machines?
Yeah, Richard Sautter, who's been a guest of both you and George over the years, found patents for those things in various archives in Washington, D.C., and that information is in his first book.
They had a wonderful recent movie, I thought it was wonderful, called The Core Science Fiction.
I bet you've seen it.
No, but my wife bought it for me for Christmas and I'm not allowed to see it, Art, until December 26th.
Oh, for heaven's sakes!
Can you believe that?
I'm beating my head against the wall as we speak.
By the way, for the sake of going back a collar or so, he had asked about an attack.
You know, whether they had the power to The answer, Art, is quite simple.
Yes, absolutely.
If they wanted to destroy us, they could do it in a day.
who they are they have the power to whisk us off as a fly would from its
the worst would blow fly from its but just like that would be a better the answer art is
simple absolutely
if they wanted to destroy it they could do it in a day the problem is
they need us they need us or are epithelial
It's in the linings of our skin and our stomach.
They need us for our unfertilized sex cells, which are our gametes, you know, which are in our testes and in our ova.
So there's at least something to be thankful for.
They need us for something.
And what would happen to stem cells, Art, if they wiped us out?
What happens to stem cells when you toast?
Well, there are two.
Exactly, they're the first thing to go.
So, live specimens are important.
Well, that's a good thing for us, I guess.
I mean, but our overall situation is still pretty dark when you look at it.
I mean, we're just sort of sitting, manipulated ducks.
It's not a pretty picture.
What insane individual art would wipe out all cattle on planet Earth?
What insane individual would wipe out all sheep?
You see, you're not going to put me in a happy position By saying that, you still put me in the category of cattle or sheep, and there's lots of implications to go along with that.
I mean, even though I may live, it's just because somebody's interested in something I've got, not because they particularly like me.
Any species has a predator, Art, even us.
All right, West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Bill McDonald.
Hello?
Hello?
Can you hear me?
I hear you.
Oh, okay.
I'm sorry.
What is your first name?
This is Mary, and I'm in Portland, Oregon.
All right, Mary.
And the things that they... He was talking about the meeting here.
I was wondering if he knows anything about the electricity that's, you know, that's been stolen and so forth.
And also... Wait a minute.
What are you talking about?
About that New York blackout years ago.
They blamed that onto these...
Extraterrestrials.
They did?
Oh yeah, I'd heard that.
And I was wondering what the size of these things are.
All right, size is not something Bill can answer.
And I'd also know, I wondered if they're kept like at Area 51, if he knows that and if he's been there?
All right, all right, all right.
That's, hold it right there.
So, size, they're all small.
Varying degrees of small, right Bill?
Most of them are.
There are a few ones that are taller than us, such as the Ancient Arbiters, which look like big, giant, skinny, playing men.
Right, but they're at the top of the, excuse me, food chain, pretty much.
And all of the other levels are pretty much, by our standards, small.
Yeah, that's true.
The Ancient Arbiters, the judges that rule the hive, are at the top of the brain chain, I call it.
And the others service in different capacities at different levels.
There's a hierarchy.
A first-time caller line, you're on the air with Bill McDonald.
Hello.
Yes, my question, just a couple quick questions.
First of all, when did the ship start to first crash in the Roswell area?
And also... Alright, one at a time.
When was the first crash that you know of, Bill?
There was a crash alluded to somewhere in the world that the United States recovered circa 1935 to 1938.
A second crash alluded to Germany in 1939.
A third crash alluded to Cape Girardeau, Missouri in 1941, April of 41.
And then the Roswell crash in July, the 4th of July of 1947.
short jr kate gerardo missouri in nineteen forty one april of forty one
and then the rosswell crash in arm july the uh... fourth of july of nineteen forty seven there's
a timeline caller
uh... yeah that great are Also, do you have any wild feeling or anything at all?
What type of solar system or what kind of planet they could be from?
Good question.
Well, the testimonial evidence provided by both Betty Hill and last night's guest, Bob Lazar, zeroes in on System 2, Planet 4, Zeta Reticuli, Which is a yellow star, slightly older than ours, that may in fact support planets that probably are now like Mars is, but for which life probably first evolved on a world similar to ours.
That is believed by many people, many researchers, and remember this is opinion only and I really have to specify this.
It's the opinion of many people.
That the gray aliens evolved on Zeta Reticuli, System 2, Planet 4, and a lot of them became Bedouins and made their cities mobile into giant starships and made themselves mobile once they had depleted the resources in their own world.
Many of the ones we're now encountering.
We're dealing with space Bedouins who probably originated there and who have Uh, space lanes, the way we have shipping lanes.
All right.
Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Bill McDonald.
Hi.
Good morning, Art.
Good morning, Bill.
Hi.
My name's Dan, and I'm calling from Arizona.
And in a somewhat friendly way, I'd like to take your guest to task here this morning.
Let's rock.
Let's do it.
First of all, Bill, you and I know each other, haven't talked to you for a while.
But, uh, your, uh, your ex-girlfriend and my ex-wife used to run UFO groups in Southern California.
I know who you are.
Uh-huh.
Uh, the reason that I want to take you to task, Bill, you're a knowledgeable guy, I can't take that away from you, but I do have to make one comment first, and then I've got another point I'd like to make about the aliens.
Um, the point I want to make is I remember, uh, when you were at the, um, the, uh, Orange County, uh, UFO meeting, doing your very first presentation on forensic investigation and so on.
In fact, I still have a video of that.
And there was speculation brought up, or wanting some speculation brought up, as to what could have brought the Roswell craft down.
Now, I remember your dad was there that night, and I happened to have brought up, well, the possibility of 200 million volts of electricity from lightning hitting the craft could have possibly interrupted the guidance system, either that or high-powered radar.
And I thought you guys were going to throw me out of the room, because I didn't have any quote-unquote forensic evidence to prove that.
And that it was just completely ludicrous for me to come up with any kind of an idea such as that.
And I'm listening tonight, and it sounds like you're agreeing with me now, and I thought you guys were going to throw me out of the room that night.
Well, let me respond to that.
First of all, I don't know why I came across that way.
I happen to respect you a lot.
Second of all, let me be the first one to apologize to you, because it's lightning is the most likely thing.
Uh, my father and I had long discussions about radar, and as radar, and Art knows this because he's into radio... Well, I'm an AM operator also.
Right.
As it ranges out, uh, the, the, um, amount of energy... Listen, listen, hold on.
Let me, let me hold it right.
Both of you hold on, alright?
We'll be right back.
Bottom of the hour.
from the high desert raging along in the middle of the night as we love to do here this is coast to coast am
oh oh
so so
so so
so If we still have time, we might still get by.
Every time I think about it, I want to cry.
With bombs and the devil, little kids keep coming.
No way to breathe easy, no time.
To talk with Art Bell, call the wildcard line at area code 775-727-1295.
The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll free at 800-825-5033.
The first time caller line is area code 775-727-1222.
To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll free at 800-825-5033.
From west of the Rockies, call Art at 800-618-8255.
International callers may reach Art Bell by calling your in-country Sprint Access number,
pressing option 5 and dialing toll free 800-893-0903.
From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.
He certainly speaks with a great deal of self-assurance about the information obtained through hundreds of
interviews.
His name is Bill McDonald, and he seems to know all about them.
What they're like inside and out, their motives, and a lot more.
And that's an awful lot.
So if you have a question, those were the phone numbers.
in a moment once again bill mcdonald uh... and and caller
Bill, do you recall the time this caller is talking about?
Oh boy, do I. Not only did he attend my first lecture in 93 yard, it was May of 93, but I also attended his wedding, and I gotta tell ya.
Yeah, you do remember, Bill.
I do remember.
The only wedding that I had Almost as much fun as I did on my own was his.
That aside though, do you remember his reference to lightning hitting the craft and do you remember sort of a negative reaction from yourself?
It's possible because my father and I had a protracted argument about lightning, radar, and the firing of certain types of ammunition which was available in 1947.
Versus the kind of ammunition that was not.
And also it was my first lecture and Paul Davidson introduced me and it was really a rough day for me because it was my first time in the limelight.
I think I still have a video of that if you want a copy of it.
Boy would I!
I really have to make a point about the aliens that I don't think is fair right now because Dr. Steven Greer is not here to defend himself.
And I think he kind of got shoved off into the corner there with the You know, the 25% of the information being accurate as opposed to, you're pretty much agreeing down the line with John Lear, is that correct?
I haven't come across anything that John Lear has said that in my overall composite.
I would agree with your caller that it sounded just to me like Bill agreed with John Lear.
Okay, okay, and that's fair, but I think I need to take the point of view of Steven Greer, because of the fact he's not here to defend himself, and there's going to be other people out there that are going to think that maybe there's a larger majority of the aliens that might not be the bloodsuckers, you know?
And I think I have to take that point of view in his absence, because I think I emanate his feelings a little bit more.
And with all due respect, because I know Bill McDonald has done very good research, and he's done a hell of a lot of interviews, and I can't take that away from him, When I look at... I think there is a flaw.
I'll just put it that way.
I think there's a flaw in his type of research and also David Jacobs' type of research.
And that flaw is that if I was to bill myself as an expert on cars, and I had never driven in a car, I'd never actually seen or touched a car, but all I had done is go out and interview people that had been in car wrecks, that had been traumatized, and then I wrote up my report about cars, you'd get the idea that you'd better stay away from these damn cars.
Well, you know, people like David Jacobs have not only never seen aliens face-to-face, he's never even seen an anomalous light in the sky.
Whereas Stephen Greer has never seen an alien.
Hello, time out.
Take a breath.
Okay.
Help convince me, if you can, obviously you do agree abductions are going on.
Oh yeah.
So the place we apparently disagree is where you think that might be an ooky thing.
No, no, no.
I agree that there's gang members in L.A.
I don't agree that the entire world here, the planetary population, is gang members.
Because we have negative on the planet doesn't mean we're all bloodsuckers.
And if the aliens came down here and looked at our news reports and looked at some of the trouble and gangs and wars that we have on the planet and wrote up their thesis on planet Earth, we wouldn't get a very damn good report card, now would we?
Probably not.
But we do have people like Mother Teresa, the late Mother Teresa, And very positive, uplifting, spiritual type of people on the planet, and I don't think it's a fair portrayal.
We have everything from good, bad, to indifferent on the planet, and I think if you go out there in the stars, you're going to find the same thing.
I don't think it's fair to portray them all as bloodsuckers that are here to abduct us.
That does go on, yes.
I have to disagree with you on one thing.
Mother Teresa was a rare and special and just thoroughly unusual human being.
Statistically, for every type of person who had the kind of heart and the kind of personal sacrifice that Mother Teresa had, you know, there's easily 800,000 people who are predatory or scavenging by their personal nature to one degree or another.
But we're talking about aliens, and you're familiar with the Meyer case.
What's your take on that?
A hell of a lot of research went into it.
I've got to be honest with you.
I don't trust the Meyer case.
I believe he's an abductee.
I believe that he's been taken more than once, but I don't believe in... and I told you this, I mean, you knew this way back in 93, and I stand by this.
I don't trust the Meyer case.
I don't support the Meyer case.
Multiple witnesses.
I understand that, but aliens do take people, but all of this pseudo...
Religious?
It's almost like a religion.
There was a lot of weird stuff, but how do you get past all the evidence?
The evidence doesn't support the religious aspect.
The evidence supports that the guy got abducted and that the guy was either traumatized or had a wondrous experience of some kind.
The thing is, though, I wouldn't use the word abducted, though, Bill.
That's where we're getting into the difference.
I don't think he was taken kicking and screaming.
He was enlightened, and there's over 2,000 pages of information that was given to Billy Meyer to disseminate to the planet about how we're screwing up the atmosphere, about spiritual information.
He was not taken kicking and screaming with an anal probe shoved up you-know-where.
He had an uplifting experience, and a lot of people don't want to confront that.
Okay, Dan, I promise you this, and I'll say this in front of 10 or 24 million listeners.
I promise to keep an open mind in regards to this, and I promise to listen to people who tell me that they had an uplifting experience I prefer to err on the side of caution.
I'm a military person by nature.
prefer to call it an experience as opposed to an abduction.
But I've got to tell you, I prefer to err on the side of caution.
I'm a military person by nature.
I also have a thorough understanding of chimpanzees and how human beings are in the rough.
And so, you know, I...
I appreciate you have an open mind, Bill.
I hope the aliens have a big open mind about us.
All right, all right.
That's where I'm going to call to.
Thank you both very much.
That was very interesting.
There's some little schisms in the UFO community, aren't there, Bill?
Well, it's more than little.
See, people get really, really Emotionally involved with their points of view.
Well, it's not a trivial question.
It's not.
Either they're our friends or they're our mortal enemies.
Well, and I prefer to err on the side of protecting my children.
And, you know, I've got little ones and I've got older ones.
You're clearly in the minority.
I mean, he mentioned David Jacobs, yourself, Whitley, perhaps a couple of others I could name.
That's about it, folks.
Everybody else is sort of over on the They're on our side.
They will save us from our own nasty environmental ways.
Or if we decide to blow ourselves up, they will stop the missiles in midair and save our butts or something like that.
You spoke to Colonel Corso.
Who are you going to trust?
I bought everything Colonel Corso told me.
There you go.
That is my position, Art.
You and I are not in conflict here.
All right.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Bill McDonald.
Hello.
Hello?
Yes, hello.
Hi.
I just want to say, as far as the debate that just went on, that's a perfect example, but just put that to a bigger universal level of the different points of view.
If you could get two people who are heads in their fields who have different Point in perspective of you.
Yes.
Imagine what it would be universally to a race that's billions of years and more intelligent than us.
Now, number two, I just wanted to say, um, I noticed that he, um, Mr. McDonald, you, uh, you, uh, underlined and listed, you said there was 17 species, but you, you only really sort of approached and, uh, So that spoke about four different types and maybe different races of that type.
As far as the human ones, or the Anunnaki as some people would term it, or the Nordic, the ones that look like us and they're supposed to be sort of friendly, and or the reptilian, what role would you say, if you believe they are within your 17 species, would they play in this whole, you know, big scenario?
Well, we have a lot of guests on Coast to Coast who have done a lot of research, especially regarding Anunnaki and reptilians.
And I have also found in my research that whatever this phenomena is, and no matter how many species are involved, it's been going on for a very long time.
I maintain a timeline of human history on a Microsoft Word document.
And, you know, there are UFO events that happened in the 13th century, UFO events in the 14th century, UFO events in the 15th and 16th centuries, in feudal Japan and in Europe, like over Sweden and Switzerland and Germany.
And it just keeps going back.
And then you have all of the mythologies and all of the histories, you know, in Roman times and in Egyptian times and going back to the ancient Medes and the Persians.
And then you have the Vimana, and you have what's recorded in the Vedas going as far back as the written language of Sanskrit, and the oral traditions that go back another 1,500 years beyond that, and phenomena in the sky, and the appearances of persons.
It's going back.
I mean... No, for as long as we have recorded events.
Exactly.
Yes.
...have been traced in history.
They've been a subtle undercurrent of mythology, especially in Egypt with the worship of Set.
And that's very ancient.
It was a cult that was, you know, opposite of Amun-Re.
It was a cult that went back before, you know, the cult of Osiris.
But then there are some researchers that believe that some of the ancient civilizations in Anteluvian times may have been Osirian.
That's right.
David Hatcher Childress is one of those.
All right, all right.
Hold it there.
We're way short on time.
I want to get a couple people on.
West of the Rockies, you're on with Bill McDonald.
Thank you, Art.
You're welcome.
Yeah, this is Irvin in Phoenix.
Bill, I'd like to ask you, there are reports of very large numbers of hybrids being produced.
Do you think that maybe us ordinary earthlings are going to get replaced by them?
Okay, I don't believe that we're going to get replaced, but these hybrids, in fact, this was one of the key points that we almost missed, Art.
Those hybrids are being designed to replace them.
The spacecraft are artificially intelligent, and they probably don't corrode or degrade significantly for about 50,000 years.
The lifespan of the aliens is probably measured in decades or centuries, and so you have a disparity there.
If you don't have organic flight crew members to operate the vehicle as a combined entity, as a composite being, as a colony organism, then they can't jump through hyperspace.
They get trapped on whatever world they're on.
They're in some kind of a machine purgatory.
They become degraded and non-functional.
I believe there is an obligation to the spacecraft By the various species that have grown them in these giant orbital vats in high temperatures, such as in the corona of the star or in the atmosphere of a gas giant.
I believe they're grown.
I believe that a chain molecule is the blueprint.
And because they're so elegant and they're seamless, and they're definitely not sub-assembled, and they mimic the function, structure, and forms of sea animals and marine organisms.
And so, you know, the whole point of all of this is that they're dying out.
They can't reproduce anymore.
And you can only clone so many times from clones before you start to lose stuff.
A more advanced process is called replication.
But you can only replicate for so long.
What happens after, say, arbitrary figure 10,000 years?
Then what do you do for your machines?
You're going extinct.
The last generation is at hand.
Well, what do you do?
You start hybridizing.
You know, several thousand generations before that happens, so that you have enough organic brains, minds, machine operators to exist in harmony and in conjunction linked to their vehicles, so that the machine system Life form can continue to exist and continue to operate and have its right to live.
So they are the ones that are threatened, not us.
And they need us.
That's what I've been trying to say.
That's what I've been trying to say throughout our last two interviews together.
Yes.
Caller?
That's a fascinating answer.
I really appreciate it.
It's actually reassuring.
Well, that is the conclusion of my Oasis Earth book, which you can find at alieneuphoric.com.
International Line, you're on the air with Bill McDonald.
Hello.
Yes, hello.
Hi.
Don't have a lot of time here, sir, so hit us with something.
Okay.
Art Bell and... I can barely hear you.
Yell at me.
Yes.
Art Bell and Bill, I've been listening to your show since September 11th.
I have three questions for Bill.
Okay.
One, do you think extraterrestrials are the false religion in Revelation as described in the Bible?
Do you think... Okay.
All right, hold on.
I can't hear him, Mark.
What's he saying?
You can't hear him.
Do you think there are a false religion, that aliens are a false religion, as described would come up in the Bible?
In Revelations?
In Revelations, yes.
Well, to be quite honest, there's a lot of people that accept their existence as a false religion, yes.
I also don't subscribe to a lot of the organized religions on Earth, because I believe that some of us, if not all of us, are eventually going to outgrow them.
Let's see if we can squeeze in one more.
First time caller line, you're on the air with Bill McDonald.
Hello?
Hello.
Hi, how are you tonight?
Alright, what is your first name?
My name is Sandra.
Okay, Sandra, what's up?
Actually, I have a question.
I was wondering, as far as abductees are concerned, do they choose Indiscriminately, or are there certain types of people that they choose?
They follow family lineages, Art.
Everybody's research suggests that the vast majority of abductions are bloodlines.
Multiple generation bloodlines.
Parents, grandparents, and children.
and with occasional arbitrary grabs.
Also, the evidence seems to suggest that people in places like Mexico, Brazil, Latin America,
Malaysia, the mixed heritage persons, which are technically the deeper end of the chain
pool, are the ones that are getting grabbed more than folks that are closer to being 100%
or, well, nobody's 100%.
Listen, Bill, we're at the end of the program.
Can I thank a few people?
Well, you can, and I would, if you've got a book you want to promote, do it.
If you've got a website, do it.
Okay.
First of all, I want to thank Stephanie for helping us out this week.
Thank you, Stephanie.
She really worked.
She's a producer over at the office.
I want to thank Lex for helping me get the artwork configured the way I wanted it on the website.
We've got to thank Mark Williams at TheHostPros.com who carries our website.
Even during the times when we've been flat busted broke, he's never tried to limit my bandwidth.
And I just got to let people know how cool he is as a host.
It's called The Host Pros.
My website is alienufoart.com and we love and thank all the people that are coming to it.
My wife is going to be bowled over tomorrow morning when she wakes up and sees all the orders that she has to process for Christmas.
I'm going to be standing in line in the post office probably every day between now and Christmas Eve thanks to you people.
And your book is Oasis Earth?
Oasis Earth Hypothesis.
It is right now a book treatment.
It's slowly expanding into the book and I'm using it to promote a book deal.
I haven't got a publisher yet.
It is contract clean, and I am certainly looking for a publisher.
All right, buddy.
Good luck, and you've been a joy to have here.
Thank you.
It's a pleasure and an honor.
Good night.
Good night, sir.
All right, folks.
I'm going to be here sort of sporadically.
I'll be here next weekend, of course, but then I'll have, I believe next week, I might work Saturday, Sunday, and Monday.
And then I'm told I'll be here December 15th.
Somewhere in there I believe George is taking a time trip.
I've got to learn a lot more about that.
Or he has proposed to do so.
And then the 26th of December and then of course December 31st for the Ritual End of the Year Prediction Show.
That's it!
Crystal's got the right words always to take us out.
Good night!
Midnight in the desert, shooting stars across the sky.
This magical journey will take us on a ride.
Filled with the longing Searching for the truth Will we make it till tomorrow?
Will the sun shine on you?
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