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Nov. 7, 2002 - Art Bell

02:49:48

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Richard C. Hoagand - Ancient Civilizations on Mars

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	Welcome to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM, from November 7, 2002.
	From the high desert and the great American southwest, I bid you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be in whatever time zone, wherever you are in the world, this is Coast to Coast AM, and I'm Art Bell.
	Great to be here.
	Lots to do tonight.
	Richard C. Hoagland will be with us in the next hour.
	Lots to update you on, like those Russian photographs and lots of intrigue going on with all of that.
	So that'll be next hour.
	This hour, I don't know.
	We'll do open lines, whatever.
	The United States reached critical agreement.
	Oh, wait a minute.
	I've got some stuff on the website for you.
	And we'll talk about the critical agreement.
	Number one, which is really number two, I have come upon probably some classified photographs, my guess.
	Not sure about that, but I'm guessing they might be.
	And I toyed during a lot of the day with what to do with them.
	And in the end, I decided to put them up and protect the person who sent them and I've already destroyed the email, so don't bother coming to see me about it, in case you don't like it.
	These were photographs taken on a military C-130 transporting Al-Qaeda.
	And I'll just let you be the judge yourself, but these were slipped to me, let's put it that way.
	Ain't the internet wonderful?
	That's the second item.
	You might take a look-see.
	Would have been a long trip there from Afghanistan to Guantanamo Bay.
	All right, so that is the second item on the website right now.
	The first item on the website is a music video.
	You know that piece of music, those three Spanish gals that I played for you last night?
	Well, we just happened to find a video of it, so if you want to see the gals, and they're worth seeing, trust me, and hear the music, it's up there.
	That's the first item.
	And then, actually, the item I like best is the third item, which is simply entitled, How the World Works.
	And in this case, a picture is definitely worth a thousand words, maybe more.
	In fact, we didn't put any title other than what's under what's new, which says, How the World Works.
	There's no writing with this whatsoever.
	It is simply a photograph that, when studied for a very short period of time indeed, Resonates with just about everybody out there with regard to how the world really works.
	And that would be the third item.
	All of these items under what's new.
	Now, the critical agreement.
	It seems that we have agreed with France, or more likely France has agreed with us, on a tough UN resolution that gives Iraq one last chance to disarm or face, in quotes, serious consequences.
	Setting the stage for a vote on Friday, while Thursday's agreement offers concessions, it still meets the President's demands to toughen inspections and free the U.S.
	to take military action if inspectors say Iraq isn't complying.
	Our President is charting a new agenda for the new Republican Congress, and he intends to make priority one homeland security.
	He says that comes first, and any tax cuts and Other stuff that people hardly care about, like economic recovery, can wait until next year.
	So Homeland Security first.
	It's interesting.
	The two suspects in the sniper spree, well, they're going on trial.
	They'll stand trial first in Virginia, a state with a very strong death penalty and a record of carrying out executions.
	You know, through all the sniper incidents, Tragedy, whatever in the heck it was.
	I still don't know what the motivation is for having done all this, do you?
	You all have any idea?
	Have you heard?
	Have I missed something?
	Was there someplace where they wrote something up and said why they were doing this?
	Was it a game?
	Did they want something?
	There was some mumbling about money, but that's about all I ever heard.
	China's Communist Party Congress convened amid tight security Friday, drawing about 2,000 delegates together on fabled Tiananmen Square.
	I don't know if fabled is the right word.
	To steer the nation through breakneck changes and introduce a new generation of leaders.
	Four former members of the Symbionese Liberation Army pleaded guilty to murder Thursday in the shotgun slaying of a bank customer during a 1975 hold-up.
	It's taken that long, virtually ending one of the most notorious and violent sagas of radical 1970s politics.
	NASDAQ down, Dow down 185.
	A dim technology forecast from Cisco sent stocks a-tumblin' Thursday as investors Upbeat after four weeks of gains, got a sobering reminder of the economy's very uncertain outlook.
	There is plague, bubonic plague, in New York.
	That's a Middle Ages-type disease.
	It's in New York City.
	In fact, there had not been a case in New York City of the plague in at least the past hundred years, according to a health commissioner there.
	No evidence of danger to the public, they say.
	A woman identified as a man's wife was also hospitalized, but her test had not been completed.
	The pair's names were not released.
	Officials said they were in the city on vacation.
	Great vacation, huh?
	The 53-year-old man is listed in critical condition.
	And the 47-year-old woman, stable.
	They were being treated with antibiotics.
	His positive result came from a preliminary test.
	More tests were being done, they said.
	The pair showed up at the hospital's emergency room Tuesday night.
	During a visit to New York after several days of fever and swollen lymph nodes, the patients were placed in isolation, health officials also testing for more common respiratory illnesses.
	The bubonic plague claimed millions of lives in Europe and Asia in the Middle Ages.
	Plague is one of the handful of agents that federal health officials fear could be used or might be used in a bioterrorist attack.
	Officials at Beth Israel Hospital, where the pair were being treated, So the man's case was almost certainly natural.
	Experts say that governments across Europe need to plan for a flu outbreak That could claim hundreds of thousands of lives.
	You better get ready, is what they're saying.
	Although the last two winners have brought only mild strains of flu to the United Kingdom, the viruses are constantly mutating.
	Scientists say it's only a matter of time now before a powerful strain like the old one emerges, the 1918 strain.
	And flu actually kills a lot more people than you think that it does.
	It kills a whole lot more.
	Even though the 1957 and 68 outbreaks that we had were less severe than the Spanish flu, they still accounted for 40 million deaths between them.
	My God, that's a lot of people.
	That's the more recent flus, 1968, 1957, together, accounting for 40 million dead across the world.
	So the flu is a very serious thing.
	I still am very unsure of myself about flu shots.
	I don't know.
	I may not get one this year.
	I had a pretty good fever of unknown origin last year, and I suspect that flu shot, but of course I can't know that for sure, and it may, well, not be connected at all, but I'm contemplating whether or not I want to take a flu shot.
	Now on the other hand, after reading this, well...
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from November 7th, 2002.
	Music.
	Alright, I received the following from a police officer down in Texas.
	That's how he starts out.
	Art, I'm a police officer in Texas.
	Last night, my partner and I got on the subject of ghosts while on patrol.
	We drove through one of several cemeteries in our city that date back to the mid-1800s.
	My partner began to tell me of a cemetery plot not far from our town that he visited a few years ago.
	He and his then-wife drove out to the cemetery for kicks.
	He instructed his wife to wait in the truck, and he proceeded into the cemetery.
	While walking on the grounds, he said he found it odd that all of the grave markers appeared to be people who had died relatively young, none of them older than 30.
	As he turned to walk out of the cemetery, he said he suddenly felt like it was running in a swimming pool.
	You know what that feels like, running in a swimming pool?
	You can't go fast, right?
	Hardly able to move, he said, but aware of his surroundings.
	When he made it back to the truck, his wife was pale.
	He asked her what was wrong, and she said, get me the hell out of here.
	He asked again what was wrong, and she yelled again.
	He put the truck in gear and left.
	While driving home, he asked his wife what was wrong.
	She said, you didn't see it?
	After convincing his wife that he hadn't seen anything, she told him there was a person standing behind him, approximately three to four feet in height, wearing a dark cloak with a hood.
	After telling me this, my partner said, you probably think I'm crazy.
	Art, I stopped our patrol car, made a U-turn, headed back to the police station, pulled up your website, and showed him the shadow person section.
	On one of the pictures, I saw him I showed him, rather.
	It caused his hair to stand up on the back of his neck and his arms.
	He pointed at the computer screen and said, I've seen that before.
	I asked him where and when, and he said in the woods near an old burial site.
	He said he and some friends had seen that thing one night while hunting about two years ago.
	Another story that I'll relay later if anyone wants to hear it.
	I believe in shadow people.
	I've seen many a strange thing at night on patrol.
	Things that one day I may have the courage to talk about, but for my partner to react the way he did to the image on the computer and the story he told, wow!
	But you might find it interesting, by the way, the cemetery I spoke of is widely known by the old-timers here as being guarded by Satan's children, a reference they use to describe the shadow people.
	I thought you all might find that somewhat interesting.
	At any rate, uh, what I'm gonna do is just, uh, I'm gonna begin to, uh, to take calls.
	And, uh, we'll test out this telephone gear, this nice, shiny, new telephone gear I've got here.
	Actually, what I've got is a new power supply inside the phone gear.
	Today, I swapped out power supplies in this Gintner unit.
	And it should be really spiffy right now.
	I hope.
	Let's find out.
	First-time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	No, you're not.
	You would've been.
	Uh, wildcard line, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Hi Art, this is Raymond calling from Michigan.
	Hello Raymond.
	I saw those photos on your website, the C-130 and the POWs.
	Oh yes.
	I'm wondering, first of all, let's assume they're what they profess to be.
	They're not staged or anything.
	I looked very closely at them.
	They appear real to me.
	What do you think?
	Oh yeah, 100%.
	I think they're what they say they are.
	Are people now going to look at those and say they're being mistreated?
	I don't know.
	That's what bothers me, because... I don't know.
	In one way, you know, we can all go by our own individual reactions.
	On the one hand, you know, I looked at them and I thought, damn, that's pretty rough.
	But then I thought about what those people did to us, and I said, screw them.
	Yeah, and this is war.
	So they had a tough flight, so damn what.
	Exactly, and isn't it war?
	Yeah.
	I'm sorry if they're a little uncomfortable, but... Yeah, it's war.
	No, I feel exactly the same way.
	Now, I did hesitate before I posted them, before I put them up there, because I thought, you know, exactly, there's going to be the kind of reaction that you just worried about yourself.
	Yeah.
	But then I thought, you know what?
	No, I think they're real, and I think that it's appropriate that they be up, even if they're not pretty.
	I think they're real, too, and I also think it's a big responsibility you took.
	Yeah, well.
	But I think they had to be seen.
	I appreciate the call, sir.
	Okay, so long, Art.
	Take care.
	Bye.
	Bye.
	Yeah, you want to see them, they're on my website.
	They probably are classified, or if they are classified, they probably wish they were.
	I don't know.
	Someone slipped them to me, and I did.
	I thought pretty hard about it before I put them up there, for exactly the reason that this caller just brought up.
	You know, somebody's gonna say, oh, those poor people.
	Well, those poor people brought down buildings in New York City.
	They hit the Pentagon.
	Thousands of people died, Americans.
	And, you know, you've got to keep it in perspective.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Yes, sir.
	I'm calling from Alabama.
	Yes, sir.
	And I was going to tell you something that happened to me a while back.
	I drive a truck.
	It happened about a year ago, and I was in Nashville, Tennessee, and I was on a four-lane road.
	I was going down the road and I come over a little hill and I saw a car had ran off into the grass in between the highways.
	And it had hit a telephone pole.
	The telephone pole had broken off and was laying over the top of the car.
	And as I pulled up to it, there was a small girl about 8 or 9 years old standing out beside the back of the car waving her arms, you know, trying to get somebody to stop.
	Obviously.
	And there was a guy standing beside her and he was probably about 35 or 40 or something.
	He had blue jeans and a blue jean jacket on.
	It was kind of cool.
	So I saw him.
	So I pulled over on the side of the road to get out and see if I could help him in any way.
	When I stopped, it took me a few minutes to get stopped.
	So I kind of passed the vehicle.
	I jumped out of the truck and I ran back there to him.
	And the guy wasn't there.
	It was only the little girl.
	She was crying real bad and I walked over there.
	And the guy that I saw standing there with that little girl was now in the floorboard of the car peeing under the Under a dash, and there was another lady driving, and the lady was awake, but she was pinned also, and she was calling out that guy's name, and I checked the guy, and he was just gone.
	He was dead.
	It was the very same guy that I saw standing beside that little girl.
	You're sure?
	You're sure about that?
	I'm positive.
	It was the very same guy.
	I haven't really told anybody about this, but I think it was, I thought about it and thought about it for a long time.
	You in a truck right now?
	Yes.
	How long have you been driving?
	About, I started in 86.
	Long time.
	1986.
	I don't know, there are people who would say, I mean apparently that was the little girl's father and the mom was trapped?
	It was, yeah, I guess.
	So what did you do?
	You called 9-1-1 or what?
	Yeah, I did.
	I called, what I called, I was in Tennessee and he called Star Highway Patrol or something like that.
	Right.
	And by the time they actually got there, there was another guy come up in another car.
	We were all standing there and the car was still running and it hadn't happened very long.
	And I reached in and turned the car off and the little girl, she was hysterical.
	Yeah.
	It was like there was nobody else around but her.
	This was like 2 o'clock in the morning.
	And there was no one else around but her, the little girl, the lady who was driving, and this guy who was in the floorboard.
	I've got the picture, sir.
	No way he could have been outside if he was trapped on the floorboard.
	I've got it.
	Alright, listen.
	Thank you very, very much.
	I appreciate the call.
	on what you saw is he somebody who dies uh... in those circumstances
	Instantly, apparently.
	Trapped underneath.
	There's no way that man could have been outside.
	Not in his real body.
	And I guess not in that lifetime.
	But you know, he knew what had happened at the instant or two before he died.
	He knew what was about to happen.
	His wife was there, and his little girl was there.
	And if ever you were able to cross the line in death and come back, if even for a short time, that would be the time you could do it.
	Right?
	Your mind would be on your wife and on your child.
	And even if you only had an instant in which to manifest to yourself, you would do it and that would be the instant.
	Now I wonder how last night's guest A very intelligent, extremely well-credentialed theoretical physicist and astronomer, and really a hard science guy all the way.
	I don't know whether you caught the end of the program last night, but I asked him, in my own way, virtually about God, and he said, basically, no.
	You know, no, I don't believe it, and if I had to answer the question in that movie, I'd have had to have said, no, I won't go because I don't believe in God.
	Basically, I believe that we are, we have electricity within us and the synapses fire and all the rest of it, but when we die, that electrical energy dies with us.
	Those were his words.
	So I wonder, you know, I wonder how somebody like that would react to a story like the one you just heard.
	There's probably more to all of this than those of Hard science, imagine, in their wildest dreams, don't you think?
	There probably is more to all of this, and that's a great deal of what this program is all about.
	That area just past where hard science is willing to say, they'll go.
	I'm Art Bell from the high desert.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from November 7, 2002.
	Once upon a time, once when you were mine. I remember your sight reflected in your eyes. I wonder where you are. I
	wonder if you think about me. Once upon a time.
	I'm out.
	With the magic in his eyes, checkin' every girl's eye, groovin' like he does the mambo.
	And he's an ariana, y en la disco playin' sexy, feelin' hot, and he's a king bailando el ritmo raga tanga.
	And the DJ that he knows, while on the spot, always around to play the mix that they gon' mezcla con la salsa.
	I'm gonna dance, I'm gonna sing.
	Ase ehe ha dehe dehe le tu dehe le se di nova. Mahabian de bukian de bwidi di di.
	Many think it's good when your honey comes and disappears.
	But we will hypnotize you.
	Some will call it shenaniga, others say that it's a real mess, a part of lo-fi ba-no.
	And he's an iron man, you'll love his cocaine sex, he feelin' hot and he thinkin' right, and the people like a banger.
	And the DJ that he knows, well, I'm his model, he's a mentor, it's a mix and they don't miss that.
	Full of salsa, que la baila, and he dances, que la canta.
	I say, hey!
	Ha!
	Now, we take you back to the past on Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
	Now, by the way, this is the all-Spanish version that I'm playing for you tonight.
	These girls gonna appear in New York City.
	Gonna be, uh, in New York City very soon.
	Three Spanish sisters, and we've got the music video, temporarily at least, up on the website right now.
	And this thing is going to take the world by storm.
	I'm pretty good... I've heard Judge Records, actually, of music, and I'm telling you right now, either the English version or the Spanish version is going to catch on, and it's going to just rip the world apart.
	Not exactly as much as the Beatles did, nor ABBA.
	But these girls are gonna rip it up, trust me.
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from November 7th, 2002.
	Music.
	Listen, on the west coast of the U.S. and I would now count myself among those of you getting slammed by this storm.
	We're beginning to get a pretty big storm here.
	It's one of the typical strong Pacific storms.
	It comes down from the Northwest.
	Somebody fast blasted me that, hey, I checked California weather tonight.
	250,000 people without power in the San Francisco Bay Area.
	It wouldn't surprise me.
	It's really, really ripping in here on the West Coast.
	And as some coastal areas are getting 60-plus mile-per-hour winds, that will be quite damaging.
	And so the weather continues to I said typical.
	It's really not typical.
	It's typically getting worse every year.
	First time caller on the line.
	You're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Hey, Art.
	How are you doing?
	Long time listener.
	I'm sorry to hear that you're retiring, actually.
	Thank you.
	Where are you calling from?
	I'm calling from North Dakota.
	Yes, sir.
	Actually, I just wanted to give a comment on those C-130 pitchers you had.
	Oh, yes.
	I recently separated from the Air Force, and I used to be what they call the boom operator.
	And from the places I've been and what I've seen, that looks pretty accurate.
	Yeah, I bet it is.
	I bet they're real.
	Yeah, I refueled those guys over the pond quite a few times.
	Well, it is what it is.
	It is.
	So, you know, people will judge this in many ways.
	It'll be interesting to see what the reaction is.
	Well, I'm pretty sure that's authentic stuff.
	Yeah, I'm pretty sure it is, too.
	I appreciate the call, sir.
	Hey, sir, thank you very much at all.
	Um, and you could tell he was military.
	As a matter of fact, uh, when I got out of the Air Force, it took me... How many years did it take me to stop calling people sir?
	It was a long time.
	I mean, you, you, you, you do sir so many times that, uh, you just, it's impossible to stop.
	It's like acquiring an accent or something, you know?
	It's with you for a long time.
	I used to call everybody sir.
	Drove them nuts.
	Uh, wild card line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello?
	That would be you.
	Okay, I didn't know I was a wild card.
	Anyway, your question about heaven, Margo?
	About what?
	About heaven, about God.
	Um, yeah, God.
	You know, I was talking about the guest we had last night, and just sort of squaring it with the story the trucker just told.
	Yeah, I heard that.
	Anyway, I just want to tell you that there is a heaven, and when I was six years old, I was trapped in the house fire and I'm still religious but anyway an angel came to me and told me I was going to live and she wrapped her wings around me and next thing I knew I was out of the house.
	The only other person in the house fire at that time was my dad and me.
	You know, the only thing I would say to that, though, and something for you to think about, too.
	Uh-huh.
	An angel came to you, wrapped her wings around you, and said you were going to live.
	Yeah, okay, I got all that.
	I got all that.
	But what about all the children that burn up in fires?
	I know.
	What happens?
	Where are their angels, you know?
	You know, I question that myself, you know, because we just lost a 14-year-old daughter.
	She was hit by Amtrak, and I question that, you know?
	But this is very true, and like I said, I was six years old, and it was on Christmas morning, and it was very real.
	Believe me, I understand.
	Thank you very much.
	That's the only problem I have with all of that, and of course, the answer is always, well, there are things that it is not for you to understand, and you have to be satisfied with that answer.
	Still, it begs the question, doesn't it?
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Hello, R. Yes, that would be me.
	Hey, how are you?
	I'm okay, sir.
	Hey, it's great to talk to you.
	I'm calling you from Pennsylvania.
	Pennsylvania?
	Okay.
	Last night you had a gentleman on who was talking about Buddhist doctrines.
	Yes.
	And he said that he was not a Buddhist.
	Well, I'm not either, but they do have some very interesting concepts that I wanted to mention.
	One of them is that they do not believe in God per se.
	They believe, rather, in the purification of Well, they don't even believe in the soul, actually.
	They have a doctrine that they call no-self.
	They believe, essentially, that we're made up of what they call the five aggregates.
	Are you familiar with that doctrine?
	Five aggregates?
	No, I'm not.
	Yes, and they teach that so much of what we call the self is dependent on outside influences, like what we perceive with our senses.
	So that when we think we're making decisions and doing things of our own free will, we're really not?
	That sort of thing?
	Well, they use the analogy of the chair.
	They say, what is the chair?
	Is it the legs?
	Is it the feet?
	Is it the back?
	They say the components can be broken down, and they do that basically with the human personality.
	That's interesting.
	That's interesting.
	Well, what we were discussing with the caller last night was the worship of ancestors.
	And they do.
	There's a great deal of ancestor worship in Buddhism.
	Oh, yes, definitely.
	All right, sir.
	Thank you very much for the call.
	I've often wondered about that.
	Haven't you?
	You know, what is life?
	Is it something that you are willfully living every moment of?
	Are you picking and choosing?
	Uh, every detail of your life, and the way you will live it, and what you will do.
	Or is it all orchestrated, and you are but an unwitting puppet?
	Well, to the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Art Bell.
	That would be me, yes.
	Sir, I was in the Army, and, uh, just over 20 years ago, um, I had to, uh, guard, uh, uh, political prisoners from Cuba.
	Oh?
	And, uh, these guys are not on vacation.
	These guys are prisoners.
	They're dangerous and they need to be restrained.
	And so they certainly are.
	Absolutely.
	They are taking every precaution to not endanger the soldiers and basically not to have the soldiers have to take action against the prisoners.
	Of course not.
	I mean, if one of them got loose, that's an airplane.
	They'd do everything they could to take that plane into the ocean.
	Absolutely.
	Sure.
	I'm with you all the way.
	It's a harsh photograph for a lot of people.
	And a lot of people who don't understand, I fear, will take it the wrong way.
	But, I don't know, tough.
	What's there is highly necessary to keep this situation from happening.
	And they're doing what they're supposed to be doing.
	Yeah, I agree with you, sir.
	First of all, I'd like to tell you that I've not had the pleasure of being able to listen to you for a long time.
	haha maybe just talking about it was enough first time on the line you're on the air good morning
	uh... yes hello turn your radio off please
	art uh...
	first of all i'd like to tell you that i'm not had the pleasure of being able to listen to you for a
	long time uh... and uh...
	uh... really enjoy your show and uh...
	really sorry to see you go but uh...
	George does a great job as well.
	Yes, he does.
	I'm pleased he's... He will do just fine, sir.
	Anyway, what's up?
	Yes, sir.
	Back in 1963... I'm 62.
	I'm 58 years old.
	I'm 68 years old.
	I had a girlfriend back then and she and I, I live in Emerald, Texas and she and I were
	heading out by the VA hospital.
	I know where that is.
	I lived in Emerald.
	Okay.
	We were going out there to, you know, do what young kids do, neck and so forth.
	At any rate, she and I saw a really, really bright light, and I'm talking about it lit up the whole area over by the VA where, you know, the other side of the VA, there's medical At any rate, it lit up the whole field like daylight.
	Now, when you're necking, you don't want bright lights.
	Well, we were still driving.
	We hadn't even gotten there.
	Oh, I see.
	You were only pre-necking.
	Well, in anticipation.
	At any rate, we were heading out there and that light was so bright it lit up the whole field.
	Yes.
	And when we noticed it, it scared the living daylights out of us.
	It just vanished.
	I'm talking about the whole field and that's north of the VA hospital and just like daylight and then it just vanished and I don't remember, it's been so long ago, I don't remember seeing it come in or anything I just remember Or maybe God knew you were on the way to go neck or whatever, even more, right?
	And he said, you see the light here, boy.
	Well, I saw the light and, you know, we're scared to death.
	And, you know, we went straight home.
	Well, see, there you are.
	It worked.
	All right.
	Thank you.
	Thank you, sir.
	Take care.
	Wildcard Line, you're on the air.
	Good morning.
	Hi, Art.
	Hello.
	I was wondering if it's possible for the space shuttle to be landing and taking off on runways on the dark side of the moon.
	Yeah, sure, every Thursday.
	Okay.
	Okay?
	Okay, thanks.
	Yeah, take care.
	Yeah, they zip over to the dark side of the moon and land every Thursday.
	They collect all the molten gold and other expensive metals and take off again, and they're back in orbit before we know it.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hello there, I can't really hear you, sir.
	Yeah, can you hear me now?
	Yeah, yell into that phone.
	I've been far off since I've listened to you.
	Okay, but here you are.
	What's up?
	Oh, yeah.
	Can't see you.
	One time that, you know, you were talking about the out-of-body experience and stuff.
	Well, you heard that trucker call in toward the bottom of the hour, didn't you?
	Well, yeah.
	What would you call that?
	What's that?
	I said, what would you call that?
	Well, I don't know.
	It'd be out-of-body.
	It'd be kind of like...
	You know, being dead, I guess.
	Being dead.
	All right, anyway, what about out of body?
	Well, one time, well, I used to do it a lot, and I did it two different ways.
	One way, when I did it, I'd feel like I was going through a tunnel.
	And another way I'd do it, I'd feel like you'd see bright light and stuff.
	Suppose I were to tell you that scientists now are able to connect little wires to your brain.
	And they're able to reproduce at their command exactly the experiences you're talking about.
	Oh, yeah.
	The tunnel, the whole thing.
	They can actually stimulate your brain and make you go through that exact experience.
	Even more complicated.
	Even NDE, where you see the white-robed people in the crystal castles and the whole ball of wax.
	Yeah.
	They can do that by throwing a switch.
	Now, what does that say to you?
	It could be, you know, your brain doing it, really.
	It does say that, yes.
	Yeah, one time that I went out, I went out to what I'd classify as the lights and stuff, like flashing lights, and when I went out, I'd go out that way, I'd go any place I wanted to.
	Okay, but here's the problem.
	Fine, you may have visited the world's capitals, for all I know.
	But unless you can produce, and I've had a few guests who have done this, so I don't deny that it's a possibility, unless you can produce some real-world evidence, evidence that you were someplace and affected something, or were, for example, recognized by somebody as having been there, or were able to move something or in some way document the fact that while ostensibly asleep or out of your body, In other words, proof, folks.
	Hard proof.
	There's not a lot of it out there, but some of the OBE people you talk to do tell anecdotal stories that involve real proof, so I haven't made up my mind about it yet.
	I do know it's something that the human brain can do, or that really does happen one way or the other.
	It's a real experience.
	I've had one myself, so to that degree I understand it.
	As for the rest of it, I don't know yet.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Yes, hello.
	I want to talk to Art about an out-of-body experience.
	You too, huh?
	Yeah, I know.
	Okay, well, here you are, and I'm Art, so go ahead.
	Okay, well, when I was 19, I was running next to a train, wanting to hop on that train, and suddenly, the universe pretty much stopped, and I saw a grid in front of my eyes, and space, And I saw all different kinds of, uh, every kind of possible, conceivable conception of human activity.
	This was while you were running to catch the train?
	Yes, it was.
	Bad timing to have that kind of experience.
	Well, it was, because I could have been killed.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	Absolutely, and so the train was clacking right next to me, and I just wanted to get on that train.
	That was all I was thinking.
	At one point, the universe just opened.
	I saw a starscape and a grid pattern.
	And it was flashing all these... I was taking in about 100,000 frames a second, and I think the whole thing lasted about two seconds, but I understood that the universe was okay as it was.
	It was okay.
	There was either an equal amount of good and an equal amount of bad going on at the same time.
	Probably true, yeah.
	Well, that's a good thing, because we're sure not going to change it.
	Oh, well, I hope so.
	All right, sir.
	Thank you.
	So he understood what there was to understand about the universe.
	That would be nice, wouldn't it?
	Like that equation, perhaps, the length of your thumb that would explain everything, the theory of everything.
	First time caller line, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	How you doing, Mark?
	I'm doing all right, sir.
	What's up?
	I want to say something in regards to you.
	You're on a cell phone, not that easy to understand, but go ahead.
	Okay, I'm fighting a cold, that's why.
	So you've got a cell phone and a cold.
	That's really deadly.
	This is Ken Collins from Las Vegas.
	Yes, sir.
	You know, most of us look at a hero as a guy with a cape who can jump over a building in a single bound, you know, spin himself around and drill to the earth to come out to the side.
	Oh, just you know, jumping going out of space.
	Well, in actuality, no pun intended, you know, he's a guy that can fall off a horse and paralyze himself.
	But we don't look at a hero as a true hero.
	This is a person who can get millions of people to listen to him, like Jesus did.
	And that's what you do.
	And you've got this power that you don't, you know you've got it, but you don't want to be afraid to use it.
	And that's this power of I don't want to say prayer, but you do.
	No, I'm afraid you misuse it.
	I know.
	I know you are.
	Well, that's an important word, sir.
	Misuse it.
	And a power that you do not understand is one that you can tragically misuse.
	And I do want to say a few words about this to all of you.
	You know, what's done by others when I'm not here, I certainly cannot control.
	However, I think it is reckless, and I think that it is ill-advised.
	To plunge into these uses of mass consciousness.
	And I think it is so, because we surely, absolutely do not understand this power.
	I have come to understand, believe, without question, as a matter of proof, because I've seen it work, that it does work.
	However, there's also the law of unintended consequences, and when you're If you're tooling around with something this powerful, you have got, you've just absolutely got to take into consideration before you say, let's rock, the law of unintended consequences.
	When you're dealing with things like nature, the power of nature and storms, and human events of varying sorts, before applying this kind of power, before marshalling these kinds of forces, even though you think you're doing good, Trust me when I tell you, you could have the exact opposite effect.
	A very tragic effect.
	And I've done interviews with people who are right in the middle of this.
	They understand this.
	They work with the universities that are exploring all of this right now.
	And on their counseling, I have come to believe that it's nothing to be toyed with right now.
	I think one day, once we've done some controlled experiments, and we understand more about it, then maybe, who knows, for the good of mankind, for the good of whatever, such power might be applied.
	You know, millions of minds at concentration toward one end.
	But make one little mistake, and millions will be affected.
	And then it won't be so funny.
	I'd be very cautious about stepping across that line.
	I am, and I think all should be, from the high desert, Richard Hoagland.
	Richard C. Hoagland is up next.
	I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM, roaring through the night like a freight train.
	Keep it right where you've got it.
	The trip back in time continues, with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
	More, somewhere in time, coming up.
	When I dig a little down about an hour ago.
	Jiggle, jiggle round the wind, see the wind blow.
	With a little girl in a Hollywood bunker.
	Something inside that we need so much.
	The sight of a touch or the scent of a sand or the strength of an oak when used deep in the ground.
	The wonder of flowers to be covered and then to burst up through tarmac to the sun again.
	Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing?
	To lie in a meadow and hear the grass sing?
	To have all these things in our memories whole?
	And they use them to cover themselves in fire Why, why would you so take this place on this trip just for
	me?
	Why, take a free ride to the place I've seen it's not free I've worked like a slave for years, worked so hard just to
	win my fears Had to live my life with all I had, but by now, by now, I
	should have grown Premier Networks presents Art Bell, Somewhere in Time
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from November 7, 2002.
	Well, he's been here for years, a guest on this program for years.
	Richard C. Hoagland is a former museum space science curator, a former NASA consultant, and during the historic Apollo missions to the moon was science advisor to Walter Cronkite and CBS News for the last 10 years.
	Hoagland has been leading an outside scientific team, very outside, in a critically acclaimed independent analysis of possible intelligently designed artifacts on NASA and other datasets, beginning with the unmanned NASA Viking mission to Mars in 1976 and its provocative images of a region called Cydonia.
	In 1993, Hoagland was awarded the International Angstrom Medal for his science... excellence, rather, in science by the Angstrom Foundation in Stockholm, Sweden, for that continuing research.
	In the last four years, he and his team's investigations have been quietly extended to include over 30 years of previously hidden data from NASA, Soviet, and Pentagon missions to the Moon, with startling results.
	coming up in a moment you're listening to art bell somewhere in time
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM, from November 7th, 2002.
	We're here from the mountains of New Mexico.
	is Richard C. Hoagland.
	Richard?
	Good evening, Art.
	Good evening, Richard.
	It's been a while.
	It certainly has, although it seems kind of like yesterday.
	A lot of stuff has happened.
	When you and I last spoke, I was going, oh my God, look at those pictures.
	We were looking at actually two sets of pictures, but what flipped it for me was the set of the Russian pictures that you got hold of that confirmed this To me, what could be nothing other than a city.
	And by the way, Richard, since you did that, there are a number of other websites, which I won't name here, which all of a sudden have sprung up.
	And they have found other city-like artifacts on Mars at different locations, using the same strip photography that comes from NASA.
	And they found all kinds of city-like structures.
	And these websites are popping up like crazy now.
	You got them going.
	Well, the data has them going.
	Look, if you go to your site, we have some images.
	I'm there.
	Racked up.
	Oh, yes.
	If you click on image number one.
	So everybody knows you go to Artbell.com, then you click on program tonight's guest info, Richard C. Hoagland's name, and here we are, related images number one through 14.
	Yep.
	Okay?
	Go to number one.
	Underground buildings.
	Yep.
	Okay.
	Oh, here we are.
	Yeah, this is the one.
	This is the one.
	Oh, this is kind of interesting now.
	Downtown Cairo, Egypt on the left.
	And... Not chosen at random.
	Downtown Mars on the right.
	Good old Sedonia.
	Yeah.
	And at the bottom... Darn, these look like buildings.
	Don't they?
	Yeah.
	Oh, they really do.
	They really, really do.
	And at the bottom, as you'll see the inset with the close-up, And then the comparison to the Reims Cathedral.
	It's the same perspective.
	You're looking straight down.
	In the Reims shot, you're looking down from a few thousand feet.
	It's an aerial photograph taken in Germany or in France sometime during the, I think, last World War.
	And the one at Cydonia was a composite of an image taken or released, you should say, by NASA on the 24th 25th of July and then composited with a visual image that we now know was taken March 8th.
	And when you put the visual image over the infrared image, what you in essence do is amplify the signal and suppress or average the noise and you get that result.
	And you couldn't get that result unless there was something down there.
	This is what is just so Mind-boggling, even to me, and I've been at this a long time.
	That's a city.
	That is a city under the surface.
	Now, the last time we discussed... All right, so that we're clear on this, the image on the right, Richard, the upper right-hand image, the one that's so incredibly clear, was taken when, by whom?
	Well, we don't know when it was taken.
	It was released on July 24th, the official one.
	The one that Keith Laney got, he got on the evening of the 25th.
	And there's been this intense controversy over, you know, did he hoax it?
	Am I making this up?
	Are we in some kind of elaborate hoax?
	I mean, balderdash.
	Well, I was willing to go along with the possibility that you were hoaxed.
	I mean, you and I talked privately and I said, Richard, are you sure?
	Uh, but then when you came up with the Russian photograph, that was too much for even me.
	Okay.
	So now what you want to do is you want to go to image number three.
	Okay.
	Why am I skipping number two?
	Because we'll go back to you in a second.
	All right.
	All right.
	Russian.
	Here we go.
	Russian phobos.
	Yeah, okay.
	Now, this is a comparison with the upper Sedonia region.
	On the far left, in the middle, is the fort.
	And the upper, toward the upper right corner, is the face.
	Uh-huh.
	The DNM is off the bottom of the image.
	Sure.
	And this pattern, this grid pattern, which you saw in the previous image as a close-up, is this Underground City.
	I mean, what else can you call it?
	That's what it is.
	Um, and the image on the right, the black and white, is from the 1989 Phobos 2 mission, where the Russians flew a infrared, thermal infrared scanner.
	Mm-hmm.
	Somewhat cruder than the Themis camera on the Odyssey spacecraft, because it's, the Themis image resolution is roughly 100 meters.
	The, um, uh, Russian imagery here is somewhat bigger.
	I think it's maybe 500 meters, something along that order.
	But it's on the same order of magnitude.
	It isn't a factor of 10.
	And this is a totally different region.
	It doesn't matter.
	It's obviously the same stuff.
	Can I ask you a question, Richard?
	Of course.
	If this was a city on Mars, and I think clearly, even I can concede that's what it was, when was it a city?
	What a heck of a good question.
	That's why we have to go back.
	Our alignment data, the geometry that I've been talking about for years, if you stand in the center of the pyramid complex, which is off the frame to the left there, and you look across the face to that linear feature on the other side called the cliff, there's a solstice alignment.
	We're going to talk a bit about the solstices later on tonight.
	And that alignment says that that thing, whatever was done there, ...was done in the order of half a million to 300,000 years ago.
	It was not yesterday.
	And, you know, when I initially proposed that... From 300,000 to a half million?
	No, not order of magnitude.
	I'm betting closer to 300,000.
	I see.
	All right.
	Now, the reason that that celestial mechanics marker is important is because it's about the only thing that you can absolutely count on about any of this.
	You know, astronomy is pretty simple.
	Orbital mechanics is really well known.
	Newton's laws of, you know, gravity and Kepler's laws of motion.
	So, we're able to track back the history of the planets and how they tilt and wobble and all that.
	Or, actually, JPL and NASA have done this.
	And using their calculations is when, you know, we do a little geometry, as I published in the Monuments of Mars, my book, covering all of this investigation for the last twenty-some years.
	We came out with an order of magnitude estimate of a half a million years.
	Now, here on Earth, a half a million years ago, there wasn't much going on.
	The most advanced guys that we conceive of in the geological record, the fossils that they dig up every now and then, was a primitive, slope-browed guy, gal called a Homo erectus.
	But what is really fascinating is on the order of two hundred to two fifty thousand years ago there was this remarkable leap forward on earth and even the mainstream anthropologists have discovered this from looking at the taxonomy of the fossils.
	And this was how long ago this leap took place?
	250,000 years.
	250,000 years ago.
	But what's really fascinating is that there's a whole other group of scientists, the biologists, actually the chemists slash biologists who've been looking at DNA samples from terrestrial races, various groupings around the Earth.
	Right.
	And they came out, a guy named Wilson at the University of California in Berkeley came out in the 1980s with an estimate that all of humankind, all of our lineage, went back to a tiny group of individuals probably somewhere in Africa on the order of 250,000 years ago.
	So you kind of put these dates all together and what it says to me is that something extraordinary happened in our own history and that something may be connected to the simultaneity of the something extraordinary that we're seeing in these pictures.
	Let's say we're looking at cities.
	Let's say those cities were there 300,000 years ago.
	And something terrible happened.
	Something terrible obviously happened or they wouldn't be buried, right?
	Or they wouldn't be buried.
	So something terrible did happen.
	In fact, last night, Richard, I had a theoretical physicist slash astronomer on.
	Dr. Krauss.
	It's entirely possible, you know, that civilizations don't last very long.
	Anyway, any of them, that eventually they all get hit by something, and what you see here on these photographs, if it's real, if these really are cities, then that's what happens.
	Whatever it is, is buried.
	That's why we've got to go back, because in the first revival... My question was this, Richard, I never quite got to it.
	If this catastrophic event occurred at minimum, say, 300,000 years ago, How were they able to get anybody off planet and to Earth, which is what you've been talking around for a while now, 50,000 years later?
	Well, because these are all estimates.
	The error bars are so large that when I say 250, it's like saying 300.
	Okay.
	So we have a real overlap.
	In other words, these are not like looking at a terrestrial calendar.
	The distances and the time estimates are so vast That 50,000 years out of 300 is almost like hitting it right on the mark.
	The most startling photograph up here, folks, is number one, and it's got a picture of Cairo, downtown Cairo, from the air, and it's got a picture of Mars from the air.
	Actually, from the vacuum above Mars.
	Yeah, it's about 200 miles up in the air.
	About 200 miles up, which is out of the air on Mars, right?
	Very much.
	Yeah, okay.
	Nevertheless, a good photograph and the similarity between the two is so startling and so remarkable that if you aren't along for this ride, then you're not watching.
	That's all I can say.
	Now, I mean, we've had incredible reaction to the show that we did when we debuted all this stuff back in, what was it, September?
	Right.
	And a lot of it has been negative.
	I mean, everything in the kitchen sink has been thrown at us from accusing us of hoaxing the images To accusing Keith Laney of hoaxing the images, or being a damn fool and doing it by mistake, and, you know, creating something wondrous and extraordinary.
	To accusing NASA or some other agency of hoaxing the image and trying to basically put it out to discredit us, etc.
	etc.
	etc.
	But the bottom line is, none of the naysayers have been able to come up with a foolproof method of duplicating what we've got.
	And when you can take two totally disparate data sets, meaning the infrared data and the visual data taken at different times and superimpose them and come up with buildings.
	I mean, look at that close up of that thing at the bottom.
	That's a damn building with perspective.
	And I mean, when I first created this, you know, in the image program that we were working with back in I think it was August.
	I could not believe myself what I was seeing.
	It was just too extraordinary, after all these years, to have this kind of independent evidence.
	And then, of course, the question is, well, if it isn't hoax, if we weren't to slip something to basically be a ringer, to do us in credibility-wise, where did it come from?
	And what we're going to track through tonight is we think we have now figured out Where this image came from, and what it really represents, as a portent to getting a lot more.
	Anyway, that's kind of prolonged.
	So let's now go back to image number two, if you want.
	All right.
	This is nighttime.
	IRNASA just released.
	When you say just released, when?
	It was released, let me see, when was it released?
	It was released on the 31st of October.
	Only about a week old.
	It was released on Halloween, which is kind of cute because it's, you know, NASA's way of saying, trick or treat!
	I don't see much here, Richard.
	Is it a trick or is it a treat?
	The image on the left, let me explain for folks that may not be following this that closely, these are two tilted images.
	The reason they're tilted is because the spacecraft orbit around the planet is tilted slightly to the pole.
	So as this camera scans, it produces a planted image.
	Gotcha.
	And the image on the left is supposed to be the image taken and released on July 24th.
	Not taken on the 24th, but released to us on the 24th.
	The image on the right is supposed to be an image taken October 24th.
	For the first time ever, the Odyssey team decided to put a date when an image was taken on their image of the day on their website.
	We were told that they would not do that.
	We were told we would have to wait for the planetary data system archive to be released.
	And there was a big release of about 1,800 images from ASU, Arizona State University, on October 1.
	But for some reason, when they took this nighttime infrared image, they decided to put a date when it was taken and a date when it was released.
	So it was taken, they claim, on the 24th of October.
	And it was released on the 31st, seven days later.
	Okay.
	First image they've ever, ever labeled that way.
	And the right-hand image, the right-hand side of the image is supposed to be an image taken at night.
	Remember, we all wanted nighttime IR.
	Yes.
	This is supposed to be it.
	And when I look at it... Oh, Cydonia of the... Of Cydonia.
	If you look at the left, in the upper middle of the left image... Yes.
	See the face there?
	Yes.
	Track right across On the line right across to the same position in the image on the right.
	And you don't see anything, do you?
	No.
	It's kind of weird.
	It's gone.
	It's missing.
	So that got me very, very curious.
	So what I've started, and we are going to publish this on the Enterprise site probably tomorrow evening.
	We hope to have it ready by tonight.
	And there was just too much science to do and too many calculations and diagrams and all that.
	We're going to publish in written form the story we're going to go through this evening as to why this image is both real and not real at the same time.
	How do you manage that?
	That's a cute trick, right?
	Well, for one thing... Is it manipulated?
	It has been manipulated.
	In what manner?
	Well, first of all, they've lied to us as to when it was taken.
	I will go through and I will show you conclusively, absolutely conclusively, and if you don't buy By the end of the night, I'll owe you ten bucks, okay?
	I will prove this image was not taken on October 24th, 2002.
	That in fact, it's a much, much earlier image.
	And given that, and given the representation that it is an October 24th image, It means that we have caught the agency in an outright lie.
	Why lie about when it was taken?
	That's the critical, critical question.
	So answer it.
	Why lie?
	Well, until we go through some of the data, I can't answer that, because you're not going to understand it or believe it until we get to the MacGuffin, as Hitchcock used to say, to see what's on the image, because there's some really cool stuff Yeah, actually, there were a couple of things I was going to ask you about.
	On the right-hand image, there's almost what looks like a hole, but with the fact that it's an infrared night shot, and I know that the heat signature shows up as bright, it almost looks like a volcano.
	It's not a volcano.
	But you're perceptive.
	You're looking at the right kind of stuff.
	All right.
	Hold on, Richard.
	We're at the bottom of the hour.
	My guest is Richard C. Hoagland, the Enterprise Fellow.
	I'm Art Bell from the high desert.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from November 7, 2002.
	Music playing.
	He used to think that it was so easy.
	He used to say that it was so easy.
	But you're trying, you're trying now Another year and then you'll be happy
	Just one more year and then you'll be happy But you're crying, you're crying now
	I'm not crying I'm not crying
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
	Tonight, featuring Coast to Coast AM, from November 7, 2002.
	You know, no matter what you believe about all of this, if you'll just take a moment, go to your computer, go to artbell.com, program tonight's guest info, and look at picture number one, beneath Richard Hoagland's name.
	Picture number one is actually several photographs.
	The two most important in my mind, the top two.
	On the left, a very nice clear photograph of downtown Cairo, Egypt from the air.
	And then on the right, the photograph taken by the spacecraft, the IR photograph of what apparently sits beneath the sand on Mars.
	Now, how could anybody Anybody deny that what we're looking at is a city.
	So that means 250,000 or 300,000 or 500,000 years ago, there was a city on Mars.
	It was above ground.
	It was bustling.
	It was full of people.
	And that may have been all over the planet.
	Not just at Cydonia, but it may have been all over the planet.
	Very likely was.
	And then...
	And then something terrible happened.
	Now, we take you back to the past, on Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
	To be continued...
	To be continued...
	you All right, hopefully there's a fairly reasonably quickly way, a quick way to get through this.
	The Russians, Richard says, lied.
	Not the Russians, I'm sorry, NASA.
	About when this photograph was released.
	For what reason?
	We don't know yet.
	I mean, isn't it astonishing that you'd make a slip like that because that's what you think?
	And, you know, I mean, what's wrong when our own agency is the agency we find And again, I want to specify, we're not talking the entire agency.
	We're talking about a group of individuals within it that are able to control the policy, the dialogue, and that everybody else kind of either doesn't know what's going on, or they just don't know what's going on.
	It's true.
	All right, Richard, number one.
	Come on, out with it.
	How do you know they lie?
	Okay.
	Go-to image number four.
	Now, you've got to remember, Richard, we've got a lot of people in trucks out there.
	We've got a lot of people who are not with computers right now.
	And I'm happy to go to image number four, but, um, everybody's not going to be able to do that.
	This is radio over the internet.
	All right.
	I'm there.
	Okay.
	On image number four, what I've done is I put the two side-by-side images together.
	Correct.
	I see them.
	The one on the left is the one that we were given on July 24th of this year.
	The one that was the official Daytime Sedonia Infrared.
	What I've done is clipped off just the top so that it matches the image on the right.
	I can see it does, yes.
	Which is the image that's on the left hand side of the one I showed you a couple of minutes ago that was released on October 31.
	Okay.
	Now the official caption of the October 31 image says that that daytime infrared is the one we were given on the 24th of July.
	Categorically, unequivocally says that's the image.
	Look at the top.
	Okay.
	The one on the left, you see those maces?
	Yes.
	How they stop at a certain place?
	Yes.
	Look at the one on the right.
	Uh-huh.
	There's more land photographed in that image.
	Isn't it possible that the The IR on the right was capturing more heat, which seems to extend the... No, no, no, no.
	The frame is the frame is the frame, and every version, every official version from July to the 31st showed the one on the left, which is longer.
	Let me try another approach here.
	Even if they lie about when they released it... No, no, it's not when they released it.
	It's about when they took it, or whatever.
	No, no, no.
	This is about what version it is.
	Because the big hullabaloo over the version that Keith and I got versus the official version, NASA said there's only one version.
	Repeat it.
	One.
	Right.
	Say after me.
	One image.
	Now we've got categorical proof on their own website that there are two different versions of this supposedly one image.
	Well, to go back, circle back to my question, isn't it possible that it is one image processed differently?
	Well, processing an image differently and adding more territory to it are two different things.
	We're talking about several square miles there.
	Yeah.
	You know, when you think of it, the image is about 20 miles wide.
	Alright?
	Yes.
	So that's a couple of square miles of additional terrain that magically appeared.
	Yeah.
	Now, this is not trivial because, you know, say what you mean and mean what you say.
	We have been excoriated.
	for proposing that there was a second image leaked to Keith.
	I see.
	The night of the 25th.
	NASA has said emphatically, there is only one image.
	Repeat after me.
	Banff, you know, Gorlick, the guy that's been hanging out at Enterprise all these months.
	Yes.
	He said categorically we're crazy.
	Christensen says we had to have made it up.
	Even our good friends think that we were slipped a ringer.
	I said that to you.
	Very early in all of this.
	You did, yes.
	You and Alan were both cautioning.
	Be careful before you leap off this Martian cliff.
	So what we have here is unequivocal proof.
	If you go back and look at the double image, the first one or the second one that we had up, at the top you'll see there's more stuff there and there's no way that's just image processing.
	It's another image.
	So that being the case, then the question you have to ask yourself is, well, where does it come from?
	Now, go to image number 5.
	Okay, where does it come from?
	Where does it come from?
	Where and when?
	What lure did they have this thing in that they decided, for whatever reason, to reveal to us?
	This is not a write-out in the open.
	This is kind of like leaking in public where you put things out.
	Yes.
	You caption them and they're looking to see who's smart enough to figure it out.
	Okay.
	Which, of course, is the hallmark of a dissident group inside at war with the cover-up that are doing the same thing we did back during Pathfinder.
	Remember how during Pathfinder we had some pretty peculiar images that kind of showed up on the website?
	And why cover this up, Richard?
	Well, we'll get to that, alright?
	Without building the foundation, as the lawyers love to say, you know, I can't give you a simple answer because there is no simple answer.
	I mean, the simplest answer is they're trying to delay the inevitable, which is the admission by this agency and this government that the human race is not and has not been alone.
	That there is stuff in the other parts of the solar system.
	And for God's sake, maybe we're part of the stuff.
	Maybe it's part of our own history, which would be an incredible incendiary bomb in the heart of the body politics.
	You don't think we could take it?
	Well, it's not whether I think.
	It's whether they're following Brookings.
	Whether Brookings is still ruling the roost.
	Remember this official report that we found many years ago, which was published in 1961, commissioned in 59, which basically said, to paraphrase Uh, oh, who's that actor?
	Richard, who commissioned Brookings?
	NASA.
	NASA commissioned Brookings.
	They had a different structure back then.
	Basically, it was a big study to find out what the institutions, the religious institutions, what America would think if contact was suddenly revealed.
	That was one section.
	One part of it.
	We were looking at the out years and the impact of the space program on all facets of our society.
	And one of them would be if... One of them was extraterrestrial contact with either real beings With real ruins, or with radio signals.
	And Brookings concluded... Can you summarize what they concluded?
	Yeah, don't go there.
	I mean, I worked with Margaret Mead at the American Museum of Natural History at the Hayden Planetarium in New York.
	We had some wonderful spirit of conversations before she passed from this mortal coil, and her biggest fear was that if we were confronted with implacable evidence of an advanced extraterrestrial society, Even in the form of ruins nearby with libraries that we could read someday?
	Yes.
	That, as a scientist, it would so impugn the concept of progress in the Western tradition, that tomorrow we'll learn more than we know today and the day after tomorrow we'll know more, because suddenly it would lay out, you know, a million years of science and History and experience that we have not had yet.
	And that a lot of folks would just say, oh, shucks, and give up.
	I'm curious, Richard, if you had the opportunity to be excavating one of these cities that we see on Mars, and you got in and you found a library, and the writing on the walls and the pillars and inside in the books or whatever it is they had that passed for books, All looked vaguely Egyptian to you.
	Would you be surprised?
	No, not at all.
	Not at all, huh?
	In fact, there's a hell of a good series called Stargate.
	Yes.
	Which I've been following religiously ever since I realized that they were trying to tell us some really interesting stuff.
	Just kind of watch that series.
	And Syfy is reprising the entire three or four years of it now on Syfy on Monday evenings.
	Four hours of Stargate back-to-back.
	Yes.
	Pretty interesting stuff, because whoever those scriptwriters are, they obviously talked to Chris Carter, who did X-Files.
	Sci-fi channels beginning to do a lot of interesting things.
	They're finally getting their chop.
	They're actually going to go and do an archaeological dig at Roswell, yeah.
	Isn't that astonishing as part of the Zuckerberg series?
	I thought so, yes.
	As part of what's going on around it.
	They sponsored a press conference at the National Press Club the other day.
	And one of their key people was none other than John Podesta, who was the former chief of staff in the Clinton White House.
	That's right.
	And John stood up at the podium and basically said, you know, George, release those documents.
	And of course, my question was, well, when you were running Clinton's White House, why didn't you turn to Bill and say, Bill, release those documents?
	But nobody asked that question.
	Anyway, no, things are coming.
	Very interesting, big things are coming.
	And again, as the evening wears on, We will get into some of those, because just before I went on the air, I had a call from our Deep Space contact.
	Yes.
	The guy in Washington.
	Right.
	You know, I mean, it's pretty interesting, the timing.
	And it was not coincidental.
	He knew I was coming on.
	He wanted me to basically communicate a few things and not, you know, step on the wrong toes.
	Now, this is a contact inside the administration.
	Inside the current administration.
	All right.
	Who has been very honest with us and very Credible in terms of predicting things were going to happen before they happen.
	So what does he say?
	Well, he says, let me see, how do I put this?
	The events of a couple of days ago, the national election, where basically they cleaned the table, have freed up a lot of energy now to move forward on the disclosure front.
	And he said that in the next few months, we should see some pretty Remarkable things, and if we do not, then there should be health pay on the part of people demanding that they finally get off the nonsense of hiding stuff, losing it in a drawer, letting it fall behind the couch, having the dog eat it, etc., etc.
	Well, I will tell you this, Richard.
	When you consider revelations of the past, a lot of times your thinking would be it'll be a Democrat administration that will release this kind of shocking news, or that would be likely to release this kind of news, versus a conservative one.
	But the fact of the matter is, most times, with surprising revelations from our government, they come from the exact opposite administration that you would expect them to come from.
	And generally they come when that administration is very, very strong.
	So your point is well taken.
	Well, that's what was affirmed by the phone call tonight.
	Now, I will remind you that it wasn't a Democratic administration that went to China.
	It was Nixon.
	Exactly.
	That's what I meant by the opposite.
	That's where you were going.
	So, I can see the logic of this, given that they now control both houses, given that there is a real determination to do things differently, and we've seen evidence that they're doing things differently.
	And there is a clock ticking.
	Remember, we have been following what I call the ritual clock, that there has to be, in the unfolding decade of this new century, there has to be a timed release of stuff if we're to arrive at a watershed circa 2012, which is where the clock is counting down to.
	You believe that?
	I believe it.
	I absolutely know it.
	And when the clock gets to 2012, Richard, what happens?
	I don't know.
	I just know there's a clock.
	Now, Chris Carter, in his last X-Files episode, claimed that's when open contact is established.
	Given that the contact will probably come from members of our own family, meaning blood relations out there among the stars and planets, If the ruins are looking out on Mars, or what I think they are, I could see that there has to be foreshadowing.
	There has to be foundation laid.
	There has to be general cultural awareness of the possibility.
	Otherwise, there would be one hell of a shock.
	Well, let's look at Brookings for a moment.
	I can understand that if ships were, you know, to begin to land in our biggest cities all around the world, There would be panic on a level that would be unacceptable.
	Just about everybody who thought about it would think it would be unacceptable.
	On the other hand, if news of an ancient civilization half a million years ago that existed on Mars were suddenly to come to light, shocking and interesting and fascinating and intriguing and thought-provoking as that might be, there's nothing particularly threatening about a bunch of skeletons on Mars.
	No, what's threatening are it is the libraries.
	It's only threatening when we go, open the door, and believe me, it's not going to be inscriptions on the wall.
	It's going to be something extraordinarily sophisticated.
	Because remember, if we're looking at something real here, it's incredibly high-tech.
	It's not like Sumer.
	It's not like Egypt.
	Those are pale copies.
	Those are echoes down through time.
	By humans, by terrestrials on this planet, who were mimicking, through myths and legends and their architecture, the wonders and the fabulous nature of what they'd heard about, or maybe even seen an archived picture buried somewhere here on Earth.
	Because you can imagine, if folks did come here en masse, you know, half a million years ago, or 300,000, they would have left a lot of stuff, and it would have been high-tech stuff that would have been pretty resistant to time and change and entropy.
	One would think so, and we should have found it.
	Well, unless some guys have found it, and it's all been locked up.
	Remember the last scene in the Indiana Jones movie?
	Oh, what was the first movie?
	Not the Temple of Doom.
	The Raiders of the Lost Ark.
	Yes.
	Remember the huge warehouse?
	Yes.
	Remember all the stuff in there?
	Yes.
	I have this vision of a warehouse like that with all the good stuff kept from us because of Brookings-type thinking.
	On the part of a small custodian of guys, self-appointed, who basically think they're the keepers of what we can and cannot know.
	There have been some pretty dark rumors, Richard, about people bringing things out of Egypt in the middle of the night for years.
	Oh, yes.
	I had a guy show up at one of my conferences who claimed that he was Robert Oppenheimer's nephew.
	And he told me flat out that in 1987, They brought something out in a C-130 that they found behind the walls off the passage leading to the Queen's Chamber in the Great Pyramid, and that it was taken to Wright-Patt to be back-engineered.
	Absolutely flatly told me that it was back-engineered.
	Do you believe this person to be who they claim to be?
	I have no way of knowing.
	But I do know that we independently were looking into interesting weirdness that went on in 1987 around the Great Pyramid.
	And the Japanese discovery with gravimeters of strange rooms, hidden rooms behind that passage down to the Queen's Chamber.
	Yes.
	And we do know that they actually drilled through those walls into those rooms.
	And I was told by friends of mine at the Smithsonian that some very interesting stuff was shipped to Washington.
	Of course, when we try to track it down in the public archives, the kind of records, bills of lading and all that, not a trace.
	But a very well-known archaeologist from Egypt stood up at an open meeting of archaeologists in Tennessee in that time frame, witnessed by a very well-known American archaeologist, whose name, oddly enough, is Gypsy Graves.
	An archaeologist with a last name Graves, yes, for real.
	She lives in Florida, and she is a wonderful individual.
	She led the first woman team of archaeologists in the 80s that the Egyptian government, Zahi, permitted to actually dig on and around the plateau.
	Hold tight, Richard.
	We're at the top of the hour.
	We'll be right back.
	Can you imagine that?
	A big warehouse somewhere with all of those artifacts, many of them with Egyptian-like writings on them, no doubt.
	Tightly guarded.
	No doubt.
	Think it could be.
	The trip back in time continues, with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
	More somewhere in time coming up.
	People.
	I never dreamed that I'd meet somebody like you.
	I never dreamed that I'd lose somebody like you.
	I never dreamed that I'd meet somebody like you.
	I never dreamed that I'd lose somebody like you.
	But I love you you
	To be created once in her life.
	She musters a smile for his nostalgic tear.
	Never coming near what he wanted to say.
	Only to realize it never really was She had a place in his life
	He never made her think twice As she rises to her apology
	Everybody else would surely know Her fortune were gone
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	What it seems to be That a wise man has nothing
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	Where he can still believe there's a place in her Now, we take you back to the past on Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
	I think we all have to be wise men with this topic.
	Wise men.
	We have to look at these photographs and ask ourselves, is that a Martian city?
	And if it is a Martian city, then we have a lot of questions that, as wise people, we've got to consider.
	Could there be a little bit of Martian in you and me?
	Does it really matter if there is?
	What happened to them?
	Will it happen to us?
	Does it inevitably happen to all life that rises from the muck?
	Lots of questions that wise people have to consider very carefully.
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from November 7th, 2002.
	Once again, Richard C. Hoagland.
	Richard, welcome back.
	Let me finish, if I can, that little story about the Great Pyramid, because it does bear on the rest of what we want to talk about.
	Sure.
	My friend Gypsy Graves was in this meeting in Tennessee in the late 80s, 87, 88, somewhere around there, and she reported that one of the archaeologists from the Council of Antiquities from Egypt was making a presentation.
	And he talked about them officially drilling into the sidewall of the passage that goes to the Queen's Chamber, which is the lower chamber of the Great Pyramid.
	This was a wall that the Japanese, a year or so before in 86, had found readings from gravimeters.
	These are gadgets that basically measure slight gravity variations.
	Right.
	They found what they thought were hollows behind the walls, because if you've got an empty room, you know it's going to have less mass and therefore less gravity than if it's full masonry all the way out to the edge of the pyramid.
	When they drilled in, according to this archaeologist from Egypt that my friend heard in this major meeting, she wasn't the only one there, but she's the only one I know, she said that he said they found sand.
	Well, now, sand is very interesting because sand makes one heck of a shock absorber.
	If you want to put something valuable in a room and keep it safe from earthquakes for thousands of years, if you don't have that stupid popcorn that comes in every package these days and winds us spilling all over the floor, you would pack it in sand.
	Because sand, I mean, sand is used, for instance, in road barriers, those big yellow buckets at the exits and bridges.
	Where if you swerve off the road, if you've had too much to drink, you crash into the barrier, they break.
	They also use water.
	And the idea is the momentum is transferred to the water or the sand, it goes flying up into the air, your car is cushioned, and you wind up surviving what could be a fatal head-on crash.
	Right.
	So sand is a good protector in earthquakes.
	So when the sand started coming out, they apparently captured some of it, and they took it to the lab for analysis.
	And he reported, this is again an archaeologist from the Council of Antiquities, reporting at an official meeting in Tennessee in 1987, that the sand was, in his words, highly radioactive.
	Highly radioactive.
	Think about this.
	Archaeologists are not technical people.
	Archaeology has had to be dragged kicking and screaming into the 20th century to use high-tech tools.
	So, his term, highly, is a relative term.
	It could have been, you know, higher background than normal.
	I don't think he meant high enough to kill you.
	Normally, if I were to say highly radioactive, I can assure you it wouldn't be just a tick or two above background.
	No, this was something significant, but I just had the feeling, and she did too, that the way he said it, that it was anomalously high as opposed to Dangerously high.
	Okay.
	But even so, it don't belong there, and it certainly shouldn't be radioactive.
	No.
	So, I mean, there's a whole story that goes along with this, which I'm going to put in the new book.
	But the bottom line is that I think that whoever built the pyramid concealed something in those rooms.
	So later, I had other people from Sedona who used to do tours to Egypt every year.
	Yes.
	And they were able to get into the pyramid by seducing their keeper away for an afternoon.
	And they bribed the guards and they got in.
	And one of them actually took pictures.
	And they reported back to me that what they found was a huge re-plastered area in the Queen's Chamber on the wall that was around the corner from where the holes were drilled in the passage.
	Wow.
	Like something big had been taken out.
	Yes.
	And they'd re-plastered the wall.
	Furthermore, they found up in the Grand Gallery, which is this sloping, 26-degree, 7-corbeled, stair-step wall inside the pyramid, you know, incredible feat of engineering and artistry, which is directly above, the end of the Grand Gallery is directly above the Queen's Chamber, they found and photographed very large, steel
	briefing like someone had put these massive
	steel bracing to keep it from falling down this as someone with jack hammering
	in today pyramid in the bottom underneath
	in the queen's chamber yes now you don't do this with a national treasure
	and an approximately when would this is a very clever and after all this went on that's what i'm sitting in a
	little bit later at which is a thing the actual drilling uh... jack hammering
	went on in the eighties and eighties seven
	and this was the time when that there was a bunch of americans that went there
	and use them a high technology to excavate the solar boat pit
	outside the pyramid There are two solar boat pits, huge wooden boats, that were literally buried.
	They were taken apart carefully and buried in pieces.
	And the standard Egyptological theory is that they were for the Pharaoh, you know, his solar boat that would be symbolically reassembled In his afterlife, and he would use it to sail across the sky.
	Have you ever met Zahi?
	Uh, no.
	No, you haven't.
	All right.
	Zahi's quite a character.
	Oh, yeah.
	Yes.
	And, um, Zahi's biggest passion is making the world believe that the Egyptians and the Egyptians alone built the pyramids.
	And he's got some pretty damn good evidence that that... Well, does he or doesn't he?
	He does if you look at it one way, and he doesn't if you look at it another way.
	Like a lot of these things, it's right on the edge of the razor blade.
	And it will take a smoking gun to tip it one way or the other.
	And my vote is that he's not right.
	That what he's trying to do is to basically, from pure nationalism, you know, keep the Egyptian name and lights up there.
	There is a lot of that in Zahi.
	But as a matter of fact, that the pyramids were there when the Egyptians as a culture formed.
	And they just inherited them, which is perfectly fine.
	You know, because the stuff we're talking about... Let me finish the story, then we'll get on with Mars.
	The interesting thing about all this is that these people, separate people, not knowing each other, would come and tell me this stuff.
	And I tried to get the photographs from the Sedona Group, and when they heard what I wanted to do with them, this woman freaked out, refused to let me have them, because she said that it would upset American egyptian relations and it would
	basically show that uh... they were covering up extraordinary stuff
	it would have done well but that's what tends to do sometimes
	the key thing is you've got
	the japanese in eighty six finding
	the chambers by gravity meters you've got the drilling it eighty six eighty seven
	the radioactive stand from an egyptian representative an official scientific meeting
	late in eighty seven you've got my uh...
	you know guys go there and see evidence of some huge excavation
	probably with jackhammers That's why the Grand Gallery was braced, because there'd be incredible vibration, directly up through the pyramid into the Grand Gallery.
	And then, at the end of 87, at this conference in LA, you've got a guy comes up to me, out of nowhere, claiming to be the nephew of Robert Oppenheimer, and he says that there was something taken out of the pyramid in 87, Put on a C-130 and spirited out to right path.
	And you let somebody like this just walk away?
	Well, what are you going to do?
	I mean, I've tried.
	You know, I was actually, I was signing books.
	And I was like in the middle of a whole bunch of people and I couldn't just say, you know, I'll forget about you and I'm going to run after this guy.
	I wanted him to hang around.
	I said, let's have lunch.
	You know, he just, it was just one of those things where he just stopped by to tell me something.
	And of course he had no way of knowing all of the things that I've been working on.
	Anyway, the bottom line is that the Great Pyramid is an extraordinary masterpiece of architecture and art.
	I don't think that, quote, primitives did it.
	I think it was extraordinarily sophisticated engineering, and I'm not alone in that.
	And there's a lot of other evidence indicating that something radioactive may have been inside, possibly as a power source.
	Possibly something as primitive.
	Again, leaning toward the concept that the pyramid is, or was, a machine.
	A machine.
	A reactor.
	I'm thinking nuclear reactor, which would have left radioactive sand, it would have needed to have been cushioned, okay?
	And, are you aware that the pyramid is a thousand years younger at the top than the bottom?
	No, I'm not.
	Ah!
	No, make your case, what do you mean?
	The pyramid is put together with massive limestone blocks, right?
	Right.
	And then it was cased with a sheathing 22 acres of incredibly polished limestone.
	Yep, I climbed on it, I know.
	It was ripped off in the, I think it was the 9th century.
	Anyway, the core blocks are put together with crude mortar.
	And the way they made the mortar is that they would mix straw in with the gypsum and other stuff, and so you've got an organic compound.
	Well, a guy named Mark Laner, you know who he is?
	Yes.
	Who is the Carl Sagan of Egyptology, okay?
	Sure.
	Who was actually put through school by the Casey Foundation, right?
	Right.
	The same folks, by the way, that put Zari through school.
	Right.
	Do you feel, do you get the feeling that maybe the Casey Foundation knows more and is not telling as much as it should?
	They have put these two key keepers of the old guard in their key positions?
	Anyway, just a thought.
	So Lehner does some brilliant work in his PhD climb in Jerusalem, where he's able to date an old wall by reading the radiocarbon dating of the mortar in the wall.
	You can't date rock or stone, but you can date the mortar.
	Right.
	Because the mortar has the straw.
	Right.
	And when you basically cut down the The wheat, anything biological, will have a radiocarbon content.
	And we won't go into how you measure the clock, but there's a way to do that.
	And it's very well tested.
	So, Blader was able to come up with a date, a pretty good date for this wall in Jerusalem.
	Then he got the bright idea, still while he was under the influence of the Kefi people, to go to Egypt.
	And to collect samples of mortar from the Great Pyramid.
	Makes sense.
	And a bunch of other monuments.
	To be tested, sure.
	And he took 15 samples in a spiral path going up.
	You know what it's like because you climbed it.
	Yes.
	Up from one corner up to the top and down to the other corner.
	And what he did was he divided them in two groups.
	And he sent one to, I think, the University of Texas.
	Yes.
	Here in the States.
	Which is a very good radiocarbon lab.
	And he He took another control group and sent it to Zurich, Switzerland, which also has a very good carbon lab.
	It's good science.
	Yep.
	And he had the most modern technique, because there used to be an old-fashioned technique where it took, you know, many, many ounces, or at least a few grams.
	Yes.
	There's a new technique using atomic accelerators that basically bombards the carbon with a proton beam and creates radioactive daughter products that they then measure that will give you, through a calculation, the amount of carbon and carbon-14 that was in the original sample.
	Sure.
	And for that you only need like a millionth of a gram.
	Okay, so now... It's so much more sophisticated.
	The two studies results.
	Ah!
	The two studies that resulted were that in his spiral path of samples from the bottom to the top, the samples taken from the top were literally a thousand years older The samples at the bottom.
	Which is impossible.
	Was it a linear change, Richard?
	No, no.
	Of course it was.
	It was a logarithmic change.
	A logarithmic.
	In other words, at what point, since he had a controlled sample going from the bottom to the top, at what point did the jump take place?
	Well, remember, the pyramid is wider at the bottom.
	It's not just altitude.
	Yeah, I know.
	It's also the spacing.
	Well, to make a long story short, when I looked at all this, I thought, bingo!
	I've got him.
	Because the one thing that would skew the whole radiation curve, because remember, the dating is from cosmic rays bombarding the straw.
	Yes.
	If you have a radioactive source in the pyramid, and it's emitting neutrons, you get it?
	You get it?
	Oh yes I do, I do.
	What it does is it beautifully skews the curve, produces exactly what he got.
	Yes, yes.
	Lehner has been running at warp 9 from this paper for the last 10-15 years.
	He will not even admit that he ever did the study.
	I'll be damned.
	Because, of course, it proves they've been hiding something really, really cool.
	That was taken out of there, that was radioactive.
	Yep.
	Packed in radioactive sand to keep it, you know, shockproof from earthquakes, and fueled the pyramid as a machine.
	Produced electricity to make it do whatever it was supposed to do.
	And some night when we have more time, I'll go into... Oh, Richard, I always have time.
	What do you think... Well, we have a lot of other stuff I want to get to.
	Well, fine.
	What do you think that machine might have been?
	The Pyramid?
	Yeah.
	A hyperdimensional generator, of course.
	To achieve... To achieve, um... Well, several things.
	One is to achieve a alter state of consciousness for people in the King's Chamber.
	Or things in the King's Chamber.
	Right?
	Okay.
	And that's where the whole idea of, you know, pharaohs and afterlife and flying to the stars and all that came from, because it's, again, a warped version of the real physics of real stuff.
	The other thing has to do with where it sits on the Earth.
	The pyramid is precisely, well, within a few arc minutes, of 30 degrees north.
	Right.
	There's a whole bunch of pyramids around the Earth.
	That's correct.
	That all, curiously, are at 30 degrees north.
	Yep.
	is a key hyper-dimensional angle.
	If you're on a rotating planet, and it's spinning, and it's got mass, and you don't want it to tip over!
	So... I think the pyramid was an effort by the last epoch of high civilization, the same folks that left the stuff off Cuba?
	Yes.
	To keep the damn planet from tipping over.
	In other words, to keep from happening to Earth whatever happened to Mars, perhaps?
	Among several times, yes.
	So that by the time they left Mars, they had with them this technology, which they then brought to Earth, and in deference to Zahid, perhaps somehow, Tom Sawyer, the Egyptians, in the building?
	I don't think so.
	I think the Egyptians found Giza As the plateau, pretty much the way it was.
	But Richard, you can go to Giza, and you can go not where most people go, but to the gravesite of the workers.
	Oh, yeah.
	I've been there.
	But we don't know what they were working on.
	Remember, there's huge hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of mastabas, those kind of coffin-shaped burial chambers all around the pyramid.
	But they were obviously working on something at Giza.
	I mean, you can... Well, that's right.
	Archaeological digs are now digging up gigantic feeding facilities and kitchens and you know the kind of logistics that would have been required for an enormous working force Richard.
	That's pretty strong evidence.
	Now, who's to say?
	Well, it's strong evidence they were building something, but we don't know what.
	Now, they may have been building, they may have been building the Kefir Pyramid and or the Mycenaean Pyramid, which the two pyramids flanking the Great Pyramid.
	Well, as I suggested, perhaps they were essentially Tom Sawyer by Those who immigrated from Mars.
	You almost said the M word.
	Martians, yeah, I almost said the Martians.
	Hold on, Richard.
	Surely something did, something awful happened to the Martians.
	I think that's clear when you look at these photographs of what was.
	The trip back in time continues with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
	More somewhere in time coming up.
	For the town of Calgary.
	Season's don't fear the rain.
	Not due to wind, the sun or the rain.
	Me like that Come on baby
	Don't feel the rain, baby Take my hand
	Don't feel the rain, baby We'll be able to fly
	Don't feel the rain, baby Baby, I'm your man
	La la la la la la La la la la la la
	Don't feel the rain, baby Help my friend through the twilight zone
	This is a madhouse, it feels like he's gone I keep coming through, got the moon and sun
	Where am I going? I've been up all too far So you will come, oh
	When your brother hangs the phone So you will come, oh
	When your brother hangs the phone I'm falling down the spiral
	Destination unknown.
	Telephone's messenger all alone.
	Can't get no connection.
	Can't get through.
	Where are you?
	Well, the night is heavy on his guilty mind.
	This far from the borderline.
	I'm gonna hit man knows that well he has been cheated.
	Have you ever felt like stepping into the twilight zone?
	This isn't a house who feels like being called.
	Who's my people can't move like the moon and star.
	Where do I go? I better go to the boss.
	You were drawn to glow.
	When the bullet has the ball.
	So you were drawn to glow.
	Premier Networks presents Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from November 7, 2002.
	Well, it looks like we really broke one tonight.
	If you'll go to the Drudge site, you'll see that Drudge has picked up our story, our photographs, the C-130 photographs that I referenced at the beginning of the program, and Drudge has put a link to my site and those photographs.
	So it looks like For the first time in all known history, I may have eclipsed Drudge a little bit.
	But thanks for picking it up, Matt.
	He's got a link back to our photographs, the ones of the C-130s and the Al-Qaeda in transport that I referenced at the beginning of the program.
	Richard C. Hoagland, back in a moment.
	Stay right there.
	tonight featuring coast-to-coast AM from November 7th 2002 once again Richard C. Hoagland and Richard James from Anchorage
	Alaska fast blast me the following pretty interesting stuff
	Yeah, except that wasn't a pyramid.
	The pyramid's been entered for hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years.
	in quotes got sick the first time the pyramid was entered you'll recall the
	mummy's curse or what they thought was the mummy's curse when the pyramid was
	first entered people did in fact yeah except that wasn't a pyramid. The pyramid's been entered for
	hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years we don't know how far back you
	We know the Arabs were going in in the 9th century.
	You know, the Alma Mun story.
	But there were many myths.
	No, no, no.
	It's the tombs in the Valley of the Kings that Carter and others, when they opened them, people got ill.
	But didn't that apply to almost all the tombs there?
	No, no.
	It's been one of those.
	I would call it an urban legend, but I have to call it an Egyptian urban legend.
	I guess.
	I mean, but would they really know the difference between radiation sickness then and whatever else they thought it was?
	Well, but it would have to be so high.
	And remember, we've had tourists going in and out of the pyramid.
	It's true.
	To pass those rooms, you know, for centuries.
	And no one has fallen mysteriously ill.
	Very good point.
	And, you know, there are hundreds and thousands of tourists every year.
	No, it was, I believe, that the archaeologist, when he said, you know, high, he meant anomalously high by background standards.
	Right.
	Not killingly high.
	And if you think about it, depending upon the kind of radiation and the kind of reactor, if it was, as I estimate, you know, 13,000 years old, then the worst of it could be far past.
	Exactly.
	The short-lived isotopes that are created by neutron bombardment go away relatively soon.
	You bet.
	And again, it's what the sand is made of that produces the radioactive problem.
	And sand is pretty neutral.
	In other words, glasses.
	Glasses, it doesn't really get radioactive.
	That's why they want to pack the high-level nuclear waste these days in glass.
	I haven't looked at it in a long time, Richard, but you may recall that I brought a piece of sandstone.
	From the pyramids.
	Yes.
	And it wasn't supposed to come out of Egypt, but I've got it.
	And I haven't looked at it in a long time, but it had an effect of glowing in the dark.
	Well, what you told me when it was brought back by Larry Hunter.
	Remember Larry?
	Oh, yes.
	And he gave me a piece, and he gave you a piece.
	That's right.
	And you said you threw it in the drawer with soul watches.
	That's right.
	A radium dial watch.
	That's right.
	And you said that when you opened the drawer, you were astonished to find the watch glowing brilliantly.
	That's right.
	I have been asking, how many years now, for you to please find that piece because it's a crucial part of the hyperdimensional puzzle.
	It is somewhere in the house, Richard.
	I have searched and I have searched and searched.
	It's here somewhere, I guarantee.
	You need to find it because what I think is going on, and again, when you do find it, I want you to do it again in video.
	Yeah, I remember taking it into the closet and noticing the same effect at your Okay.
	What it would do, if it literally was altered by its presence in the hyperdimensional machine known as the pyramid, it becomes a kind of a little mini-gate of its own.
	And one of the things that we know about the hyperdimensional physics is that it changes radioactive decay constants.
	The radioactive materials are not immutable.
	They do not have an immutable half-life.
	The half-life can change.
	Depending on the physics, depending upon the hyperdimensional environment in which they are.
	Since the pyramid was this massive machine that was literally, you know, connecting itself to hyperspace when it was energized, all the stuff in it, all the limestone, particularly the limestone that was part of the piece that Larry brought back, which was from those Bags that were brought down from above the chamber?
	Yes, would have been effective.
	Would have been radically effective, and when you bring them close to a radioactive source, what it would do would be to increase the natural radioactive rate, which means the radium, I forget what the half-life of radium is, but it's a certain number of atoms per minute, alright, that produce the little glow of the phosphorescent paint.
	Yes.
	If they were to be increased, in other words, The number of fissions were to increase significantly because of proximity to this little piece of hyperdimensional tunneling.
	Yes.
	Then the radioactive rate would go up, the phosphor would be bombarded greater, the light would become greater, and I would not do this for a long period of time, Art.
	Yeah, it wasn't a little bit, Richard.
	The increase in brightness On the dial was so bright that you could see the light on the piece of limestone.
	Holy cow!
	Yeah, I know.
	Really, in other words... That's wonderful!
	Really, really bright.
	And you've got to remember, that's inside of a dark closet drawer.
	I mean, a chest of drawers drawer.
	Right.
	You know, with socks and stuff.
	So it was probably, what would you say, ten times brighter than it normally would be?
	Yeah.
	Shockingly bright.
	Well, the light is proportional to the radioactive decay.
	So the number of fissions per second, per minute, was probably a factor of 10 greater.
	So the half-life was reduced by a factor of 10.
	You've got to find this piece.
	It's a real important piece.
	And I don't think Zai's going to let us go back and get any others.
	Not a chance.
	Okay?
	Exactly.
	Not a chance.
	But if there's one piece and one mysterious effect, there must be others.
	And it was only through the grace of you-know-who that we got a piece.
	And somewhere in your house, there is history.
	Ramona, please find it for him.
	Women can always find things.
	That's how they do it.
	I know.
	I know.
	I don't either.
	It's eerie.
	All of that, though, if even perhaps true, eats away at what Zahi really fervently wishes to believe and does leave richard uh... he believes the egyptians and only the egyptians built this uh... although he's at a loss to explain and uh... he truly is a loss he will just stop and tell you i have no idea all but large that is the mystery isn't it that's what he says well but i think that the political position because remember if if you've experimented with pieces you know with with watches and radioactive stuff
	He's had access to all this for decades.
	You don't imagine that he hasn't been listening to the show.
	I mean, he used to listen, I know, regularly.
	I know, I know.
	So, you know, if he heard us back when we did this first show, which was what?
	About five, six years ago?
	When Larry brought those pieces back?
	Yes.
	It was before I left Weehawken.
	That was in 97.
	So it was somewhere around 97.
	Yeah, and he was really angry, too, Richard.
	That's when he was threatening to behead people and toss them in pits and stuff.
	Oh, yeah.
	And anyway, he could have easily gotten a piece.
	In fact, it could have been the reason why there was a whole remodeling campaign for those chambers above the King's Chamber.
	By the way, he's building a big wall around everything over there now.
	I've heard.
	Do you know that?
	I've heard.
	I've seen sketches.
	It's pretty weird.
	Yeah, it is weird.
	Given that this stuff's been sitting there, You know, available to tourists and anybody else for literally thousands of years.
	The idea that the keeper of the flame in the 21st century would be building a wall to guard access to the pyramids.
	What more can happen to them?
	I don't know.
	His political stock over there has been rising quickly.
	So I've heard.
	Yes, he's doing very, very well.
	Well, we're getting close to that magic date of 2012.
	And I said, one of the models is that that's the year we make contact.
	Another model is that that's the year when they finally admit what you and I are discussing right now, namely that we're a lot older and a lot more extraordinary than we think, and we have much deeper roots in time and space and history than anybody has dared to believe.
	Well, that's a kind of compact, and I would say that while that would shake up a lot of people, I think the world would probably be able to live with it.
	I mean, it's an ancient Dead civilization, yes, it will cause us to have discussions about our own roots, but it's not going to tear society into little pieces knowing that something half a million years old and dead is on Mars.
	Unless there is technology there which could be extraordinarily important here, you know, we tend to turn every high technology into a weapon system.
	Well, you know what NASA would say?
	They would say, look, You're out of your mind.
	If we had evidence of a city on Mars or libraries that we could go and visit, we'd be screaming from the top of the building here in Houston for all to hear that we need the money for a manned mission to Mars to go read what's in the libraries.
	I mean, we are NASA.
	That's our business to go into space.
	We love manned missions.
	We are NASA.
	We'd scream it at the top of our lungs.
	And they're lying.
	Let's go back to the pictures.
	Click on picture number five.
	Okay.
	You got it?
	It'll take a moment.
	Okay.
	But you have broadband, right?
	Yeah, I do.
	Okay.
	I do.
	I have a dial-up.
	You have dial-up now, do you?
	Yes.
	Uh-huh.
	Which helps me from keeping them, you know, from breaking in.
	I mean, they are constantly trying to break into this poor little computer, whoever they are, and they just can't do it because it keeps knocking it off the air.
	Yeah.
	Two words, Richard.
	Firewall.
	Of course.
	Firewall.
	Anyway, have you got number five up?
	No, I'm sitting here and I'm bouncing all over the place, and in fact, trying to get back to my site right now, and it's very, very busy.
	Okay.
	Somebody's looking?
	Yeah, somebody's looking.
	Well, what you're going to see when it comes up, and for people who have actually been able to get it downloaded, it's a composite of three images.
	The two top images are black and white on the left, And a color version on the right of a nighttime infrared that was taken on March 21st of this year, released in October in the PDS data dump that we were all anticipating.
	And it was the closest nighttime image to Cydonia until Gorlik Bamf, whatever his real name is, released the image on the 31st, claiming that was the nighttime IR he had taken on the 24th of October.
	You got it up there?
	I'm sorry, which number?
	Uh, number five.
	Number five.
	I am now at number five.
	Okay.
	Yes, I've got it.
	Okay.
	At the top, you'll see two images side by side.
	Black and white on the left, color on the right.
	Correct.
	Each of these images released in three bands of color.
	The nighttime images.
	Did you know that?
	Well, yeah, I think I can see, uh, green and blue.
	Green and blue and purplish and all that.
	Yeah.
	Those are from three bands.
	I think it's band 4, band 9, and band 10, I believe.
	At the bottom is the purported nighttime IR.
	And the first thing you've got to know is that the image taken on the left, the top black image, black and white, was taken on March 21, which is just about the dead of Martian winter.
	It was taken only 100 miles away from Cydonia.
	So it's the same geology, same geography.
	Right.
	If you look at the bottom image, That's the one that was supposedly taken at the height of summer.
	October 24th turns out to be just after the summer solstice in the northern hemisphere.
	Okay.
	I've told you we get the solstice there.
	Okay, meaning what?
	Meaning the first day of summer.
	Yes, I know.
	Well, if you look at the two images, you said before that the IR night image from Sedonia was kind of crappy.
	Yeah.
	It's full of noise.
	Yep.
	Why?
	That's supposed to be a summer image.
	And it's comparable to the winter image just above it.
	So go to number six.
	This is going to be how we ferret out the truth.
	Whoever is trying to keep this stuff from us, this is their undoing.
	This is a graph that was made up by Dr. Bob Zubrin.
	It's basically an equivalent Martian Earth calendar.
	The outside orbit is Mars.
	The inside orbit is Earth.
	Center is the Sun.
	Okay.
	And the very outer ring, you've got the seasons, right?
	Right.
	Those are seasons in the northern hemisphere of Mars.
	Okay.
	So as Mars goes around, it goes through these various seasons if you're at Cydonia.
	Gotcha.
	Summer, spring, winter, fall, etc., etc.
	Right.
	Okay.
	If you look at the red dot... Yes?
	That's where Mars would have been when the October 24th image was taken.
	It was taken on the 24th.
	Okay.
	And you can see that it says Northern Summer.
	See the little line just to the right of it?
	Yes.
	That's the solstice.
	Okay.
	That's the peak of North Martian summer.
	Gotcha.
	The little blue dot, by the way, is where the Earth would be.
	All right.
	All right?
	Go to number seven.
	Okay, uh, summarizing as we go, Richard, what are we... What are we saying here?
	Okay, number seven is a plot of the two images, the daytime IR and the nighttime IR.
	Yes.
	And what I've done is to put a little compass Between them.
	I see that.
	And I've shown an angle of 35 degrees north above the east-west line, which is the line that goes left-right, and 35 degrees south.
	If you're at Cydonia, with a tilt of Mars which is 25 degrees, that is the maximum angle at which the sun will set in the summer.
	This is summer solstice.
	Sunset?
	The upper green line?
	Yes.
	The lower green line is the winter solstice sunset.
	So as on Earth, if you sit as I do here in the wonderful New Mexico desert and watch sunsets out my windows, you can see the sun tracks back and forth along the horizon as the year progresses.
	That's right.
	This is what the Indians used to do.
	There's a whole solstice marker at Chaco Canyon left by the Anasazi.
	All right, all of this that you're doing is basically to tell us... Well, we're getting there, all right?
	So what I've done, and now you want to go to number 8, alright?
	Okay.
	Number 8.
	Okay.
	What I did was simply look at the slopes, the cliffs.
	And there's this little feature that we call the island, because it looks like a big island, you know, like a flat mesa.
	See it?
	Deep cliffs sitting in the middle of the Cydonia Plain.
	Yep.
	And if you look at the right-hand image, you'll see that it's brightly lit on its southwestern face.
	Correct.
	So that would be where the sun would be.
	Where the sun is shining.
	Yes.
	That lower green arrow.
	That's how IR will show.
	That's right.
	It heats up the cliff during the day, and then at night it glows in the infrared and your camera picks up the glow.
	So if it's not lit, it can't glow.
	Right.
	If you'll notice, the glow stops basically at the western tip.
	It does, yes.
	It does not extend around to the northwestern part.
	Which tells us exactly where the sun was, yes.
	And the sun, the green arrow, is where the sun would have been coming from on the 24th.
	Yeah.
	This picture cannot repeat, not have been taken on October 24th.
	Alright, I'm going to repeat myself.
	Alright, let's say that you've proven this and that they didn't take the picture when they said they took it.
	Meaning what?
	Why would they lie?
	Well, that's my question, Richard.
	No, no, no, no, that's my question.
	No, no, that's my question.
	You're the one who's been looking into this.
	That's my question, Richard.
	Why would they lie?
	I'm not an affidavit.
	I don't know.
	I can suppose, I can suspect, I can presume.
	I haven't got an affidavit from somebody saying yes.
	We will get it someday.
	Obviously you have thoughts about it though.
	What would be the motivation?
	Alright, let me tell you what we now know from this geometry that this picture was taken.
	It was taken in January of 2002.
	Not in October, but in January of this year.
	Okay.
	Months and months earlier, right?
	Yes, okay, fine.
	That's a hell of a lot of time.
	It is.
	Why would they conceal that they had taken the picture then?
	Well, for one thing, In January, what was NASA doing with the Odyssey mission?
	They weren't even in the right orbit yet to begin their formal mapping.
	They were doing, and there's some linked releases from JPL that are going to be in our story tomorrow evening.
	They were talking about tweaking the orbit, doing little burns here, doing little burns there, circularizing, adjusting, etc., etc.
	That's when they took this image.
	In other words, the first thing NASA did I remember.
	it got to mars and after the error breaking
	it took the pictures of cydonia and then lied to us about it
	it didn't admit it it's better guy named damp flash gore like over their prize
	claiming that they couldn't take any pictures i remember in the infrared in the night
	i remember it was too cold i recall we have now proven that he lied about that and he lied
	about this Why would an official of the U.S.
	government keep palming off lies on us?
	Damn it, Richard, that's my question.
	You hide the truth, which is, this confirms an extraterrestrial set of ruins at Cydonia.
	Hold it right there, Richard.
	This is Premier Networks.
	That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
	on this somewhere in time.
	A man is rowing Dixie double ball time. You feel alright when you hear the music play. Well now you're stepping
	aside, but you don't see too many faces. Coming in out of the rain, they hear the jazz go.
	You can dance, you can jive, having the time of your life.
	Friday night and the lights are low Looking out for a place to go Swear to play the right music Get him in the swing You'll come to love Anybody could be that guy
	Night is young and the music's high With a bit of rock music, everything's fine
	You're in the mood for dance And when you get the chance
	You are the dancing queen Young and sweet, only seventeen
	Dancing queen Vis-a-vis from the temporary
	You're listening to Art Bell, somewhere in time.
	Tonight, featuring Coast to Coast AM, from November 7th, 2002.
	Richard C. Hoagland is my guest.
	We're discussing our possible Martian ancestry.
	The pyramids, Egypt, and of course, Mars.
	And again, for those of you that Uh, or even the, the, the hard-bitten skeptics out there, go and look at photograph number one on Richard's, uh, site.
	figure who he won on the ride and tell me that he hasn't got something.
	Somewhere in Time with Art Bell continues courtesy of Premier Networks.
	Of course if we ever did get to Mars we might be able to get a sample of some DNA from something
	or another and you've got to wonder what kind of comparison there'd be between Martian DNA
	and human DNA don't you?
	Don't you?
	In a way, Don, he's right.
	Because if this shakes out the way I think it's going to, obviously, it's part of the family anyway.
	It's just they're a lot more ancient than he's willing to publicly presume, or to admit, or whatever.
	Anyway, let's get back to the images, because I do have a point I'm trying to come up to here that I think is going to be very important for everybody.
	All right.
	We need to get there pretty quickly, though.
	Comprehension, yes.
	OK.
	Go to number 10.
	I'm sorry, number 9.
	Number 9.
	OK.
	All right.
	I'm there.
	All right.
	Remember how, when you looked at the overall IR image, I pointed out that you can't really see the face at all?
	Absolutely.
	All right.
	This is an enlargement.
	The one image on the left is the daytime IR face, blown up.
	You know, fairly large.
	The other is the nighttime.
	And the other is the nighttime.
	Which looks like the typical sandbox.
	It sure does look like the cat box, doesn't it?
	Yep.
	But it's there.
	Now remember, the daytime is sunlight plus thermal infrared from Mars.
	The nighttime is only infrared from Mars.
	Right.
	There's no sunlight.
	Gotcha.
	The only thing that makes things bright in the nighttime image is heat.
	Things heated by sunlight during the day.
	Oh.
	Okay.
	So you go to number 10.
	Okay.
	I don't mean Downing Street.
	Right.
	What Banff very neatly did in his own caption, he said that he'd carefully put these images together so they could be registered.
	What do you do when you register an image?
	You put one image over the other.
	Yes.
	So what we did, what I actually had Keith Laney do, Is to put the one image over the other.
	Yes.
	And you can see the left strip and the right strip forming a very large cross.
	That's right, yes.
	And what happens when you put images over each other if you're looking at exactly the same stuff?
	Yes.
	The signal adds and the noise cancels.
	That I would expect, yes.
	Yep, well it's standard.
	Everybody, even in radio this works.
	Yes.
	So what we did is we started looking and now, right in the middle, see what you see?
	There's the face.
	Daytime plus nighttime IR.
	And there's a whole bunch of other details, we won't dwell on this.
	Go to number 11.
	Yeah, I see the face very clearly.
	Go to number 11, alright.
	I'm taking this as a hint for what, you know, we should do.
	Yes.
	What I did is I took the same crop close-ups we had before, and I colorized each one.
	Yes.
	I made the sun image, daytime image, red.
	The nighttime image, blue.
	Super them carefully.
	And what that did, of course, is it averaged the noise.
	It's a very noisy nighttime image.
	But the same stuff is down there, lit by infrared, right?
	Sure.
	So, you basically increase the signal.
	And lo and behold, image number three, there is the face.
	Right.
	And it doesn't look like a face, which you would not expect it to, because that's a visual representation of light and shadows, reflection, and all that.
	Yes.
	But what it looks like, go to the next image.
	Image number, well, stay on that one for a moment, alright?
	I already left.
	It looks like, well, go back to it.
	It looks like a big rectangular box.
	Okay.
	It looks like a 1x1.5 box.
	It does, actually.
	Longer than wide.
	But with square edges and straight sides and warpy stuff, which of course is the thermal stuff coming up.
	Which would have been the frame for the face, right?
	The frame, precisely.
	So go to number 10.
	I'm sorry, number 12.
	Number 12.
	Got it.
	Now what I've done is I've compared this daytime image and a mesa that's right next door to it.
	The closest other thing next to it.
	And the top image is the nighttime with this closest mesa.
	The Mesa has pretty interesting features.
	In fact, they're really interesting.
	The more you look at them, the more bizarre they look.
	But the face is, again, except for a few little white lines, it's gone.
	There's no really bright stuff, warm stuff.
	That's right, yes.
	It's a cold box.
	Right.
	You can see the frame there.
	Tilt your head to the left.
	Yeah, no, I see it.
	You can see the frame.
	Absolutely.
	Okay.
	What is this telling us?
	Well, what it's telling me is that the big test that we've all wanted for years, if we ever got this technology, would be, is the face just like any other mesa on Mars?
	Or does it have anomalous thermal properties?
	What would give something anomalous thermal properties?
	Radiation?
	Or the capacity to store heat?
	Remember, it's getting energy from the sun during the day, The reason, for instance, you have a room full of rocks in houses that are heated by solar energy is because rocks are good at storing heat.
	That's correct.
	And at night, they release into the house, and you keep your house warm with stored solar heat.
	Same theory is functioning with these images.
	The bright stuff is heat being radiated back into space at night after being stored during the day.
	The fact that the face, compared to the next closest object, is so dark, it's almost ambient.
	It's almost background.
	Indicates to me that it cools off too quick.
	In other words, if it's sitting there as an exposed mesa, made of rock, exposed to sunlight all day, you'd expect it to be warm.
	And you'd expect to see it warm all over in a roughly the same configuration that we see it.
	So why don't we?
	Because we're looking inside, I think, Art.
	We're literally looking at the beams and cross bracing of the rectangular box.
	And the thing we see as the face is the surface covering.
	This is the most interesting evidence that this thing is an artificial, non-natural, non-rocky structure.
	And that's what would have been worth hiding from January to October of 2002.
	Because if they found this out, and I presume the original image Was a hell of a lot better than the one we're seeing.
	Sure.
	Because there's so much noise in this.
	And the noise, of course, would have been to drown out the other stuff.
	The underground stuff.
	If you, um, well, we won't go back, but if you look carefully at the other images, you'll see hints of the underground structures.
	I'll go back.
	Had on the other?
	Yeah.
	Let's go ahead.
	Let's go to image number 13.
	Okay.
	What we did is we looked at some other mesas around The Cydonia Plain.
	This is one to the south of the face.
	The bottom image is the daytime.
	Looks like a little normal kind of weird little mesa, right?
	Eroded by whatever?
	Sure.
	Look at the top one.
	Yes.
	It's right around the bottom edge.
	It's like it's a hole.
	Brilliant.
	But the center is pitch black.
	Yeah, it's like a hole.
	It looks like a hole.
	Well, it looks like a geometric hole.
	Yeah.
	It looks like what it might be if this was another eroded arcology art with walls, which is where the massive bracing would be contained.
	And the interior was hollow.
	And it had been basically filled with light fluffy stuff, Martian dust and dirt, which of course is very low thermal conductivity, and would store no energy at all.
	And we saw a very similar image from the Hydaspus Chaos region back in March when they held their first press conference.
	We had this series of structures, and in the paper we'll have the comparison, where you have these incredible mesas that were dark on the interior, and they had brilliant geometric edges.
	By the way, look where the brightest parts of the walls are facing.
	They're facing south, the bottom of the image.
	Right.
	They're not facing west.
	That means that whatever that stuff is made of is holding and radiating a lot of heat from the dawn, which is on the Right-hand side?
	That would seem so.
	All the way through noon, which is at the bottom, all the way through sunset, which is on the left.
	And again, this is a deep, deep winter image.
	We think it was taken in January, Earth time, 2002.
	Final image.
	Okay?
	Yes.
	From all this, I was looking down at the nighttime IR, which is the bottom image, black and white, of our familiar five-sided DNM pyramid.
	Yes.
	Look at that thing.
	I mean, you can see the geometry.
	You sure can.
	It's all lit up.
	It's like a damn Christmas tree.
	I agree with you.
	Compared to the face, which is non-existent, this thing is like it was on a totally different planet.
	I agree.
	If these are both rock mountains, mesas, why is this thing brilliantly lit up, meaning it's hot, then why is the face basically dark?
	Because they've got to be made of different stuff.
	They can't be a couple of miles away.
	You know, Richard, why would it be that the good guys at NASA, the ones that you say are the majority, wouldn't be looking at these photographs in the same way that you have?
	I mean, a large number of them.
	They're concerned with this.
	It's their interest.
	It's what they do.
	Why wouldn't they look at it with the same interest and questions that you have?
	I'm sure they do.
	And I'm sure it's all inside waiting for the right political environment to come outside.
	That's what I was told.
	Let's talk about political stuff for a second.
	The Russian photographs that we got that so surprised me because they verified what NASA did.
	And then I know you went after the Russians.
	You tried to open a dialogue with the Russians.
	Tell us what happened.
	Well, this is going to sound really awful, Art, but I can't.
	Because literally, just before air time, I got this phone call and part of it had to do with ongoing negotiations with the Russians to get us the data we've been asking.
	And so rather than, as you know, diplomacy is best conducted quietly, certainly not in front of 20 million people, because some of those people are not our friends and they will run and tattle and try to keep everything from happening that should be happening.
	How do you know this phone call wasn't made to prevent you from telling us tonight?
	Um, because it has a time limit on it.
	And it's from our deep space source.
	It's the same guy, you know, who's been giving us other good stuff.
	And he called me up tonight to tell me that it's very much alive and in a few days, he was optimistic.
	He felt that maybe by next week, we will have what we're looking for.
	But we should not discuss it at any great length because it's very fragile.
	Very delicate, and there are sensibilities on both sides.
	So you know I know the story?
	Right?
	Well, I know you know part of the story.
	I know enough of it.
	Yeah.
	And, and I shouldn't, I shouldn't say a word, huh?
	No, no, not that.
	If by next week, you know, I'm going to give you a time limit.
	By next week, we don't have what we've been promised tonight.
	Then you'll tell.
	I will come back on and I will give you the entire full story.
	Well, that ought to put a little pressure on.
	Uh, that's part of why I think I got the phone call.
	Let me go back to the image for one second, then we can get on to the political aspect of what people can do to help with all this.
	Because the reason I keep coming on and doing your show, besides, you know, you're a hell of a nice guy, is that there's a lot of people out there who really deserve to know what's going on.
	Who we are, where we've come from, and I'm frankly very bad and upset that this keeps being hidden from them, and they keep being lied to and whippersnapped and snookered In every fashion possible, down to something as stupid as when a picture was taken.
	I mean, aren't you a little tired of it?
	Yes, if, in fact, it really is motivated by hiding everything we just talked about, of course.
	Well, what other motive could there be?
	Give them the big picture.
	Brookings, the way governments operate, the way control groups who love power and love to sit on it and use it for their own purposes operate.
	Did we ever imagine it would be anything else but?
	And the only thing that's going to change it is getting a lot of people involved.
	Well, let me go back to the image for a second.
	This last image.
	Yes.
	If you scroll up to the top, the two color views, the one on the left is the purported July 24th image.
	Right.
	Which is no idea as hell.
	Yes.
	The one on the right is the DNM pyramid in close-up from our leaked image that was given to Keith Laney somehow the night of the 25th.
	What I found, and Cain Blaney found, and a bunch of other people have found, is a remarkable similarity between the bottom image, which is ostensibly nighttime IR, and the top right image.
	I agree.
	I see your differences, but if you composited a daytime image with a nighttime image, you'd get the top right hand image.
	So it would seem, yes.
	And what I think they did is they snuck in early, Before any scientists or press were watching.
	And they took a bunch of pictures of Cydonia.
	Visible, infrared, color, you name it.
	They shot the hell out of the place.
	They then waited in the mapping mission for their next opportunity and took more.
	And then more.
	And the reason you would do this is because you would want a sequence of images as the temperatures went from deep winter to spring to summer.
	Correct.
	And you would see the change in thermal conductivity You'd be able to see if there was anybody home down there.
	If the lights were on, look at the DNM.
	If this image was taken when we now have calculated January of 2002, look at how bright it is compared to the other stuff I've shown you.
	Oh, clearly.
	This is not just absorbed solar heat.
	It appears to be something inside still powering this structure.
	The same way, Art, that little piece of the Great Pyramid, when you brought it close to a radioactive source, was able to trigger a massive radioactive reaction.
	And this physics and technology, which should be the heir of all mankind, is being kept in a drawer for a few, and frankly, I've had enough of it.
	And in the next half hour, I want to outline a strategy for getting to the bottom and getting the truth.
	We've tried a lot of things, Richard.
	Do you really think there's a strategy for getting to the truth that really might work?
	Well, I've only been at this, what, twenty-some years?
	Yes.
	That's my point.
	But remember, there's also a clock.
	There's also this implacable clock where they've got to get everybody ready for 2012.
	And if that's true, then there has to be a timetable for releasing what has been found.
	And that's why You know, this stuff was hidden from January.
	Why was it suddenly kicked out there on October 31st?
	Why are you so convinced that something or anything will occur on 2012?
	Because that's when the ritual calendars that we've been working on come to a denouement, I won't say end, but they come to a breakpoint.
	This is, by the way, completely independent from the Mayan calendar.
	What really astonished me is when we were working on this stuff, you know, beginning a couple, three years ago, and we figured out that there was this clock tied to the positions of the Earth and the constellation of Canis Major and the star Sirius and Egypt and all that.
	Yes.
	It was completely separate from the Mayan calendar, but it has the same basis in real celestial geometry.
	In other words, it isn't an accident that that date is an important date, because it has to do with lineups Between where the Earth is, where the Sun is, and where certain parts of the galaxy are.
	And if this is being paced by a larger aspect of this physics I keep talking about, then those celestial relationships are going to have to be important.
	They're going to be factored in.
	2012 will be an interesting break date.
	I'll hold it right there.
	Richard, we'll be right back.
	From the High Desert.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	Always something, isn't it?
	You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from November 7th, 2002.
	He's like me, oh why can't I get him?
	Love is what I hide and never redeem Love is what I hide and tears come all the way
	This whole situation that I just can't win He's like me, oh why can't I get him?
	I got a lot of those heartaches I got a lot of those tear drops
	drops Heartaches, tear drops, all the way
	Heartaches, tear drops, all the way I got a lot of those heartaches I got a lot of those tear
	Oh, responsible, practical Then they showed me a world where I could be so dependable
	Oh, clinical, oh intellectual, cynical There are times when all the world is steel
	When questions come to me from such a simple mind Oh, please, please tell me what's the plan
	I know it sounds absurd Please tell me who I am
	I said, what would you say?
	They'll be calling you a radical A liberal, oh fanatical, criminal
	Oh, won't you sign up your name?
	We'd like to be your acceptable Respectable, oh presentable, a vegetable
	Oh, tick, tick, taggy, yes, tick Yeah!
	Now, we take you back to the past On Art Bell Somewhere in Time
	All right, Richard doesn't know it yet, but he's about to be taking calls.
	So if you want to talk to Richard C. Hoagland, now is your opportunity.
	Those are the numbers.
	And in just a moment, we'll rock.
	Stay right where you are.
	Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from November 7th, 2002.
	Alright, I know Richard wants to encourage you to do something to bring all this to life, so let's go ahead and
	get to that right now.
	Richard, I do want to take calls.
	This is a talk show and I want to expose you to whatever is out there.
	So, go ahead and say what you want to say.
	Well, look, we have reached a watershed, I think, with this new data.
	We have proven now, overwhelmingly, that they are lying and lying and lying.
	When you look at the details of this imagery tonight, it's obvious what they're lying about.
	They're trying to delay the inevitable, which I believe is, you know, that overworked D word, disclosure.
	Yes.
	The problem is, do we want it on their terms or our terms?
	I have spent about 20 years, a generation, working at this.
	And I've not done it alone.
	I've had a lot of very important help, both technical and people, you know, extraordinary people, for instance, from your audience.
	And I want to really thank An awful lot of people who have stepped up to the plate and sent us $5 or $10 or $20 or even those stunningly shocking thousand-dollar checks that occasionally come in for people who believe, as I do, that the American system is at stake.
	If we really believe in representative government, then we have to demand accountability.
	We have to demand You know, that people tell us the truth on something certainly as important as the past and future.
	So you're saying you need help?
	Of all mankind.
	And of course we need help.
	Okay.
	Because what we need to do, beginning, you know, at the turn of the year, is launch an extraordinary new political campaign.
	We've just been through an election where the Republicans won and the Democrats didn't, because basically the Republicans outspent them.
	And they spent in the right way, and they spent in the right places, and they had the right message.
	Well, we've got the right message.
	We know where to put the pressure.
	We just don't have the funds to put the pressure where it needs to be.
	I agree.
	It takes money.
	So if people want to support Enterprise, the first thing you can do, my dear friend Art, is go and find that damn piece of the pyramid.
	That's what you can do.
	I'll do what I can.
	That is your mission.
	Choose to accept it.
	Mr. Bell.
	Second, everybody can go and get a copy of the Monuments of Mars.
	I predicted in the fifth edition, in the forward that I wrote, Exactly what we are seeing in this nighttime IR image.
	A stunningly different face, thermally anomalous from its surroundings, from its background, from its terrain, indicating overwhelmingly that it's got to be made of something weird.
	It's not rock, and the likelihood is it's made of artificial stuff.
	Number three, what people can do is to actually just send money.
	You know, that old joke about, you know, what can you do?
	Well, just send money.
	Five dollars, ten dollars, whatever.
	Send it to the Enterprise Mission at P.O.
	Box 3550 Edgewood, New Mexico, 87015.
	That's P.O.
	Box 3550 Edgewood, New Mexico, 87015.
	And if you didn't write that down, it's on the website, which takes me to the third thing, or is it the fourth thing you can do?
	Yes.
	Who is soon to be the ex-webmaster of the Art Bell Show, because Art is walking off into the sunset for a while.
	And I have gone into an interesting co-venture.
	Keith is Scotty again.
	He is the masterful engineer of the Good Ship Enterprise.
	And he is running the first paid conference that I know of, probably in web history.
	We've had enough of the trolls and the Agents and the provocateurs and the disinfo artists and all that.
	So what we did is we moved our website and we set up a conference under Scotty's Able Stewardship.
	And for a lousy four bucks a month, you can help Enterprise and join the political campaign.
	Because in that conference, which is really becoming more of a think tank, we're going to hammer out a strategy and then launch it beginning next year in January.
	And I will come on the show and explain exactly what we're doing.
	But this is where we're putting together various representatives that are going to have a major, major difference in the months and years ahead.
	So you're saying people are going to join that conference?
	All you do is go to Enterprise, and you go down to my invitation.
	It says, Oakland Invitation.
	You click on that.
	It takes you to the site.
	You know, it walks you through.
	PayPal was down tonight.
	Obviously, of all nights, they could be down.
	They were down.
	But $4 a month, you know, I've been out of touch with things for a little while.
	Four dollars a month, it turns out, is one pack of cigarettes.
	It's one quarter of a pizza.
	These days it is.
	It's one, you know, six pack of beer.
	It's nothing to be part of something that's going to make a difference.
	Let me tell you how it's making a difference.
	We had someone join the other day from Austria.
	It turns out that he is quite connected to the German space program.
	And has become our emissary with ESSA, the European Space Agency.
	You're going to take calls in 30 seconds?
	Will do.
	Next year, ESSA launches a mission to Mars.
	It has a 2 meter color camera art, not under the control of NASA.
	So as part of this conference, we have found someone who is willing to be our representative, carry our message to the appropriate European scientists and project officials, And you will find out what happens by being part of this conference.
	And you do that by going to Enterprise and clicking on the Enterprise.
	All right, there you go.
	First time caller on the line.
	You're on the air with Richard C. Hoagland.
	Good morning.
	Yes, hello?
	Hello.
	Yes, I had a question about the radiation within the Pyramids.
	Sure.
	With tourists being able to travel there, the exposure elements of that, if it's such a secret, Could it be used for weaponry of mass destruction?
	You mean the fact that there's radiation there?
	No, I think not.
	I'll answer for Richard.
	It was a very low-level radiation compared to anything we'd be concerned about, and it's had plenty of time for its half-life to deteriorate.
	Right, Richard?
	Yeah, I think it was only anomalous in a scientific sense.
	I think it came from whatever they You know, packed around.
	Although, it would be interesting to go back and ask what he meant by very high radiation.
	Well, we tried.
	And I got nothing at the Smithsonian.
	I got nothing through my Egyptian contact.
	I understand, but there's a... The road ended.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Richard C. Hoagland.
	Hi, Richard.
	This is Brian calling from Atlanta.
	Morning, Brian.
	I was just curious.
	I have kind of a couple of quick questions.
	Pictures and the probes and all these things, they're ultimately controlled by NASA?
	Yep.
	Ours are.
	Okay.
	The probes that they send, who builds them?
	Like Lockheed or Northrop?
	Contracts are put out to American industry and most of them are built by Lockheed Martin.
	Okay.
	So let's assume a person, say, of the wealth of Bill Gates or somebody like that, decides that they want a probe.
	Can they buy one?
	Well, you could buy the pieces and assemble one, and there are a number of private efforts.
	In fact, there was an announcement the other day that next year there will be the first private launch to the moon.
	And I'll be fascinated to see how far they get, because it's so easy for a probe to go astray, for a rocket to misfire, for a solar panel not to open.
	Do these people that you're aware of have the resources and the technical capability, do you think, to pull it off?
	Oh, they do.
	They have the money.
	They even have the permission from NASA to launch.
	You have to get permission to launch a private mission anywhere.
	Absolutely.
	But, my problem is, if they're going to go to the moon and into close orbit and take pictures of things that are not on the timetable, we'll never get to see those pictures.
	Something will happen.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Richard C. Hoagland.
	Hello.
	Yes, how are you doing, Art?
	Okay, sir.
	Hey, Rich, how are you doing?
	It's good to be here.
	Marjorie Bailey here on Central East Florida, home of the Martian revelation.
	Hey, Richard.
	Uh, I got a question for ya.
	During that infrared image, right?
	Now, being what it shows, like you said, they're still showing a lot of things, even though a lot of noise.
	Incredible things!
	Could it be more in the realms, like, going up to where I have proposed about art scapes?
	Given how much noise in the image, Gary, I don't know yet, and I think that's why we have to force, politically, more images out.
	We've got to get with allies that can help us.
	I mean, obviously, this Vamp character, Who's leaking this stuff on a website that he controls.
	Right.
	He's hoping that someone will be smart enough to figure it out and exert the proper pressure.
	One of the key things that happened, Art, the other night with the Republican sweep.
	Yes.
	Our old friend John McCain is back in the saddle.
	Sure.
	He will become chairman of the Commerce Committee in the Senate, which controls the NASA budget.
	That's a good point.
	And John McCain is a friend Of everyone out there.
	He's the one who went to Bat Forest, you know, a couple years ago to get all those images out of Malin's secret archives.
	We need the resources, as in any political campaign, to go to Washington, to brief Senator McCain, or go to Arizona, whichever is closer.
	In other words, we've got to think of this now as a political... We're within sight of a goal, and we've got to cross the goal line, and we need the real help of everybody to do it, because we've got the goods.
	We have the goods tonight.
	even the most of the relation you know here in our centrally florida is you
	know here to help do that and um... and thank you richard for your support and uh...
	artist certainly night talking to you again and uh... user and by the way people keep waiting will be on my show this
	weekend and like you said alright we're rocking and we're gonna
	rock this boat and we're not gonna let him pick up over
	Ain't that right, Rich?
	Yes, sir.
	All right.
	Thank you.
	Take care.
	I should mention that Gary's show is on Saturday night.
	He's trying to become another Mr. Bell.
	I see.
	And he's doing a hell of a good job, and he's had all the creme de la creme on.
	And any support that he can gather, I would certainly support, because we need more voices.
	Wes for the Rockies, you're on with Richard C. Oakland.
	Hey, Art.
	Long time no hear.
	Remember Leslie and the psychic twins out of San Diego?
	Of course, yes.
	Well, I do agree that twins and clones do have souls.
	That I do agree with, but this is what I'm putting forward to Richard.
	I read his book and Zachariah Sitchin's Twelfth Planet back to back.
	I'm thinking that your artificial city came from them.
	You're probably, in some variation, you're probably right.
	I agree because... You're talking the Anunnaki, right?
	Mm-hmm.
	I definitely agree, because when Marta collided with Tiamat, where would they have gone to escape the destruction?
	How we sort out the reality from the myths and the misperceptions is the fun part over the next couple, three years.
	I would love to see you go to Mars to find out.
	So would a lot of other people.
	If enough people get together, we will.
	Well, there's one little hitch in that.
	Your little problem with a little item that Major Ed Ames has been talking about in ARK, our little mysterious Planet X is coming through next year.
	I don't buy it.
	You don't?
	Planet X, let me tell you what Planet X is, folks.
	I've seen it.
	Planet X, Nibiru is Mars.
	And the big announcement, the big coming closest changing paradigms next spring could be that that's part of the calendrical revelation dates and something big may break with a little help from our friends to force this out of the closet.
	Well, let's just say, last March, I saw a rather bright star in the area of Orion, Gemini, and Sagittarius B. According to Fitchin, that's where it's supposed to show up at.
	And it has.
	Well, maybe you saw it.
	I know the sky pretty well, dear, and I ain't seen it.
	You ain't seen it.
	But there have been stories, Richard.
	There's lots of stories.
	Well, I mean, mainstream ABC kind of stories.
	You've seen them, right?
	No.
	You have not seen them?
	I've seen that one.
	About either a very dark sun or a very large planet.
	Oh, yeah.
	Those are much farther out.
	They're in circular orbits.
	And they were out in 1998 when you and I were doing some things.
	Yes.
	Those first surfaced in 98.
	Oh, yes.
	Perturbing comets.
	Those are part of the unseen solar system that we've been talking about.
	Yes.
	Called for in the physics.
	Two other planets out there.
	But there's nothing coming toward the Earth.
	And nothing in the category of Sitchin's Nibiru.
	I frankly think this has been part of the manufactured noise to prevent discussion of the real stuff, which is focused on Mars.
	Mars was Nibiru.
	Okay.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Richard Hoagland.
	Hello.
	Hello, Richard.
	Ah, good morning.
	I have a question.
	I'm not very technical.
	I understand that these probes are taking the pictures, and I'm assuming they're sent back via radio waves to the Earth?
	That's right.
	Michael, why can't you guys come up with something to intercept these so that you can get direct pictures before NASA has time to change them up?
	Boy, have we ever thought of that in the past.
	Believe me.
	We have tried.
	And actually, we found an old radio telescope down in Georgia that we looked at.
	It was one of the 1960s dishes.
	And in fairly good condition.
	It could have been, you know, repaired and made to work and all that.
	We started looking into the coding problem.
	Because what NASA does is they code these signals in a binary language that basically is unbreakable.
	And the only people that have the key to break the code is NASA.
	So even if you intercept the signal without the code, you're nowhere.
	Well, why do they have it encoded, Richard?
	I wonder why.
	Well, I do too.
	I mean, is it to protect the Russians from getting these images?
	Why not send them in the clear?
	Well, there are some technical reasons why a certain coding Improved signal-to-noise ratio.
	It's called pseudo-random noise coding.
	I understand that.
	But, in fact, it seems to be to keep, again, information from the people who are paying for it.
	These games going on at ASU with this data, dribbling, dribbling, dribbling, leaks and all that, it's just out of balance.
	There has got to be accountability, and without pressure from enough of us, we'll get it.
	Alright, one last, I think, wildcard line.
	You're on the air with Richard C. Hoagland.
	Hello.
	Good morning, this is Todd Galt from Pennsylvania.
	Yes.
	Richard, you were talking about the piece of a pyramid that Art is missing is radioactive.
	No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
	I did not say it's radioactive.
	Right.
	It has a hyperdimensional property that when brought near radioactive materials enhances the half-life of the radioactive stuff.
	Like radium on a clock.
	But in itself, it is harmless.
	In fact, Art, if you find it, And you sleep on it in the small of your back?
	Yeah.
	I think some very positive things could happen.
	No, I'm very serious.
	Very serious.
	That would be about the only thing I haven't tried, Richard.
	Oh, it's non-invasive, my friend.
	Yeah, that's true.
	Find that piece, Ramona.
	Actually, it was kind of jagged, Richard, so I'm not sure how non-invasive it would be.
	Anything else, caller?
	I guess the color's gone.
	He went away.
	So, not radioactive in the sense that you would take a guy to the gym.
	The pyramid was radioactive as people walked through there.
	It would be a lot of sick people.
	You'd have a lot of dead tourists.
	Absolutely.
	Well, alright.
	Time is short.
	Anything else you want to get through at the very end here?
	Well, if you want to buy a copy of a book.
	Which I offered to sign for those people that are lining up to be extras in our film.
	And the next time I'm on, I'll give you a very important update on how the movie is coming.
	Short update, how is it coming?
	Well, we'll know in December.
	There's a major meeting in December where I finally think I'm gonna get the script I want.
	Anyway, if you want to be part of it, you have to read the book first.
	That's the one criteria.
	So call an 800 number, which is 800-350-4639, and that's another way you can help Enterprise,
	because without what we're doing, I do not see disclosure on our terms anytime soon.
	Thank you.
	you You don't think something could intervene to make disclosures sudden and unexpected?
	Well, look at what's going to happen in December.
	We've got Steven Spielberg with his Take It, which is a, what, 20-part series Yes.
	Sci-fi?
	Yes.
	70 million dollars?
	You know what I found out is the core hypothesis in Spielberg's, quote, fictional series?
	Hybridization of human beings via, quote, aliens.
	And people are walking around claiming in the film, I'm one quarter, I'm one eighth alien.
	That's not possible art unless they're genetically related.
	Which gets back to the are we looking at ancestors and the things we used to do in the ruins at Cydonia and elsewhere on the planet Mars.
	We have got to know.
	This has now gotten to the point where there is no other alternative but to know.
	But to know requires a small price, which is you get involved.
	All right, Richard.
	Well, I hope you've talked him into it.
	I know you need the help, and I appreciate your being here as always, and we'll do it again soon, my friend.
	We sure will, Art.
	Good night.
	Be well, my friend.
	Alright folks, that's it for this night.
	Tomorrow night, uh, the GIS is here.
	The Ghost Investigator Society, and it's gonna be pretty strange.
	From the High Desert, I'm Ardell.
	Good night.
	I can't survive, I can't stay alive without your love.
	Oh baby, don't leave me this way.

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