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Nov. 7, 2002 - Art Bell

02:49:48

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Richard C. Hoagand - Ancient Civilizations on Mars

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52:01

richard c hoagland

01:21:07

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Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		Welcome to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
unidentified		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from November 7th, 2002.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert and the great American Southwest.
		I've been doing all good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be in whatever time zone, wherever you are in the world.
		This is Coast to Coast AM, and I'm Art Bell.
		Great to be here.
		Lots to do tonight.
		Richard C. Hogan will be with us in the next hour.
		Lots to update you on, like those Russian photographs and intrigue going on with all of that.
		About to be next hour, this hour, I don't know.
		We'll do Oldermines, whatever.
		The United States reached critical agreement.
		Oh, wait a minute.
		I've got some stuff on the website for you.
		And we'll talk about the critical agreement.
		Number one, which is really number two, I have come upon probably some classified photographs, my guess.
		Not sure about that, but I'm guessing they might be.
		And I toyed during a lot of the day with what to do with them.
		And in the end, I decided to put them up and protect the person who sent them.
		And I've already destroyed the email, so don't bother coming to see me about it in case you don't like it.
		These were photographs taken on a military C-130 transporting al-Qaeda.
		And I'll just let you be the judge yourself, but these were slipped to me, let's put it that way.
		Ain't the internet wonderful.
		That's the second item.
		You might take a look-see.
		It would have been a long trip there from Afghanistan to Guantanamo Bay.
		All right, so that is a second item on the website right now.
		The first item on the website is a music video.
		You know that piece of music, those three Spanish gals that I played for you last night?
		Well, we just happened to find a video of it.
		So if you want to see the gals, and they're worth seeing, trust me, and hear the music, it's up there.
		That's the first item.
		And then actually, the item I like best is the third item, which is simply entitled, How the World Works.
		And in this case, a picture is definitely worth a thousand words, maybe more.
		In fact, we didn't put any title other than what's under what's new, which says how the world works.
		There's no writing with this whatsoever.
		It is simply a photograph that, when studied for a very short period of time indeed, resonates with just about everybody out there with regard to how the world really works.
		And that would be the third item.
		All of these items under what's new.
		Now, the critical agreement.
		It seems that we have agreed with France, or more likely France has agreed with us, on a tough U.N. resolution that gives Iraq one last chance to disarm or face in, quotes, serious consequences, setting the stage for a vote on Friday.
		While Thursday's agreement offers concessions, it still meets the president's demands to toughen inspections and free the U.S. to take military action if inspectors say Iraq isn't complying.
		Our president is charting a new agenda for the new Republican Congress, and he intends to make priority one homeland security.
		He says that comes first, and any tax cuts and other stuff that people hardly care about, like economic recovery, can wait until next year.
		So homeland security first.
		It's interesting.
		The two suspects in the sniper spree, well, they're going on trial.
		They'll stand trial first in Virginia, a state with a very strong death penalty and a record of carrying out executions.
		You know, through all the sniper incident, tragedy, whatever in the heck it was, I still don't know what the motivation is for having done all this.
		Do you?
		Do you all have any idea?
		Have you heard?
		Have I missed something?
		Was there some place where they wrote something up and said why they were doing this?
		Was it a game?
		Did they want something?
		There was some mumbling about money, but that's about all I ever heard.
		China's Communist Party Congress convened amid tight security Friday, drawing about 2,000 delegates together on fabled Tiananmen Square.
		I don't know if fabled is the right word.
		To steer the nation through breakneck changes and introduce a new generation of leaders.
		Four former members of the Simbinese Liberation Army pleaded guilty to murder Thursday and the shotgun slaying of a bank customer during a 1975 holdup.
		It's taken that along, virtually ending one of the most notorious and violent sagas of radical 1970s politics.
		NASDAQ, down, Dow, down, 185.
		A dim technology forecast from Cisco sent stocks a tumbling Thursday as investors upbeat after four weeks of gains got a sobering reminder of the economy's very uncertain outlook.
		There is plague, bubonic plague, in New York.
		That's a Middle Ages type disease.
	It's in New York City.
	In fact, there had not been a case in New York City of the plague in at least the past hundred years, according to Health Commissioner there.
	No evidence of danger to the public, they say.
	A woman identified as a man's wife was also hospitalized, but her tests had not been completed.
	The pairs' names were not released.
	Officials said they were in the city on vacation.
	Great vacation, huh?
	The 53-year-old man is listed in critical condition.
	the 47-year-old woman, stable.
	They were being treated with antibiotics.
	His positive result came from a preliminary test.
	More tests were being done, they said.
	Paris showed up at the hospital's emergency room Tuesday night during a visit to New York after several days of fever and swollen lymph nodes.
	The patients were placed in isolation.
	Health officials also testing for more common respiratory illnesses.
	The bubonic plague claimed millions of lives in Europe and Asia and the Middle Ages.
	Plague is one of the handful of agents that federal health officials fear could be used or might be used in a bioterrorist attack.
	But officials at Beth Israel Hospital, where the pair were being treated, said the man's case was almost certainly natural.
	Experts say that governments across Europe need to plan for a flu outbreak that could claim hundreds of thousands of lives.
	You better get ready, is what they're saying.
	Although the last two winters have brought only mild strains of flu to the United Kingdom, the viruses are constantly mutating.
	Scientists say it's only a matter of time now before a powerful strain like the old one emerges, the 1918 strain.
	And flu actually kills a lot more people than you think that it does.
	It kills a whole lot more.
	Even though the 1957 and 1968 outbreaks that we had were less severe than the Spanish flu, they still accounted for 40 million deaths between them.
	My God, that's a lot of people.
	The more recent flus, 1968, 1957, together accounting for 40 million dead across the world.
	So the flu is a very serious thing.
	I still am very unsure myself about flu shots.
	I don't know.
	I may not get one this year.
	I had a pretty good fever of unknown origin last year, and I suspect that flu shot.
	But of course, I can't know that for sure, and it may well not be connected at all.
	but I'm contemplating whether or not I want to take a flu shot.
	On the other hand, after reading this, well...
unidentified		...
		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from November 7, 2002.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Coast to Coast AM All right, I received the following from a police officer, Danny, Texas.
		That's how he starts out.
		Art, I'm a police officer in Texas.
		Last night, my partner and I got on the subject of ghosts while on patrol.
		We drove through one of several cemeteries in our city that date back to the mid-1800s.
		My partner began to tell me of a cemetery plot not far from our town that he visited a few years ago.
		He and his then wife drove out to the cemetery for kicks.
		He instructed his wife to wait in the truck and he proceeded into the cemetery.
		While walking on the grounds, he said he found it odd that all of the grave markers appeared to be people who had died relatively young, none of them older than 30.
		As he turned to walk out of the cemetery, he said he suddenly felt like it was running in a swimming pool.
		You know what that feels like running in a swimming pool?
		You can't go fast, right?
		Hardly able to move, he said, but aware of his surroundings.
		When he made it back to the truck, his wife was pale.
		He asked her what was wrong, and she said, get me the hell out of here.
		He asked again what was wrong, and she yelled again.
		He put the truck in gear and left.
		While driving home, he asked his wife what was wrong.
unidentified		She said, you didn't see it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		After convincing his wife that he hadn't seen anything, she told him there was a person standing behind him, approximately three to four feet in height, wearing a dark cloak with a hood.
		After telling me this, my partner said, you probably think I'm crazy.
		All right.
		i stopped our patrol car maybe you turn headed back to the police station your website and showed him the shadow person section on one of the pictures i saw him He pointed at the computer screen and said, I've seen that before.
		I asked him where and when, and he said in the woods near an old burial site.
		He said he and some friends had seen that thing one night while hunting about two years ago.
		Another story that I'll relay later if anyone wants to hear it.
		I believe in shadow people.
		I've seen many a strange thing at night on patrol.
		Things that one day I may have the courage to talk about.
		But for my partner to react the way he did to the image on the computer and the story he told, wow.
		But you might find it interesting, by the way, the cemetery I spoke of is widely known by the old-timers here as being guarded by Satan's children, a reference they use to describe the shadow people.
		I thought you all might find that somewhat interesting.
		At any rate, what I'm going to do is just I'm going to begin to take calls, and we'll test out this telephone gear, this nice, shiny new telephone gear I've got here.
		Actually, what I've got is a new power supply inside the phone gear.
		Today I swapped out power supplies in this Gentner unit, and it should be really spiffy right now.
		I hope.
		Let's find out.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
		Hello?
		No, you're not.
		You would have been.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Art.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		This is Raymond calling from Michigan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Raymond.
unidentified		I saw those photos on your website of the C-130 and the POWs.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		I'm wondering, first of all, let's assume they're what they profess to be.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		They're not staged or anything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I looked very closely at them.
		They appear real to me.
		What do you think?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, 100%.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		I think they're what they say they are.
unidentified		Are people now going to look at those and say they're being mistreated?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I don't know.
		That's what bothers me because in one way, you know, we can all go by our own individual reactions.
		On the one hand, you know, I looked at them and I thought, damn, that's pretty rough.
		But then I thought about what those people did to us, and I said, screw them.
unidentified		Yeah, and this is really.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So they had a tough flight, so damn what.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And isn't it war?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		I'm sorry if they're a little uncomfortable, but no, I feel exactly the same way.
		Now, I did hesitate before I posted them, before I put them up there, because I thought, you know, exactly there's going to be the kind of reaction that you just worried about yourself.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But then I thought, you know what?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I think they're real, and I think that it's appropriate that they be up, even if they're not pretty.
unidentified		I think they're real, too, and I also think it's a big responsibility you took.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		But I think they had to be seen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I appreciate the call, sir.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so long arc.
unidentified		Take care.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Bye.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bye.
		Yeah, you want to see them there on my website.
		They probably are classified, or if they aren't classified, they probably wish they were.
		I don't know.
		Someone slipped them to me, and I did.
		I thought pretty hard about it before I put them up there for exactly the reason that this caller just brought up.
		You know, somebody's going to say, oh, those poor people.
		Well, those poor people brought down buildings in New York City.
		They hit the Pentagon.
		Thousands of people died, Americans.
		And, you know, you've got to keep it in perspective.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Hello?
unidentified		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I'm calling from Alabama.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		And I was going to tell you something that happened to me here a while back.
		I drive a truck, and it happened about a year ago, and I was in Nashville, Tennessee, and I was on a four-lane road, and I was going down the road, and I come over a little hill, and I saw a car had ran off into the grass in between the highways.
		And it had hit a telephone pole.
		A telephone pole had broken off and was laying over the top of the car.
		And as I pulled up to it, there was a small girl, about eight or nine years old, standing out beside the back of the car, waving her arms, trying to get somebody to stop.
		And there was a guy standing beside her, and he was probably about 35 or 40 or something.
		He had blue jeans and a blue jean jacket on.
		It was kind of cool.
		And so I saw him, so I pulled over on the side of the road to get out and see if I could help him in any way.
		And when I stopped, it took me a few minutes to get stopped, so I kind of passed the vehicle.
		I jumped out of the truck, and I ran back there to him.
		And the guy wasn't there.
		It was only a little girl.
		She was crying a little bad.
		And I walked over there.
		And the guy that I saw standing there with that little girl was now in the floorboard of the car pinned under the dash.
		And there was another lady driving.
		The lady was awake, but she was pinned also.
		And she was calling out that guy's name.
		I checked the guy, and he was just, he was gone.
		He was dead.
		It was the very same guy who I saw standing beside that little girl.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're sure?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're sure about that?
unidentified		I'm positive.
unidentified		It was the very same guy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
unidentified		You know, I haven't really told anybody about this, but I think it was – You in a truck right now?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How long have you been driving?
unidentified		I started in 86.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Long time.
unidentified		1986.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		I don't know.
		There are people who would say, I mean, apparently that was the little girl's father and the mom was trapped.
unidentified		It was, yeah, I guess.
unidentified		I was like.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So what did you do?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You called 911 or what?
unidentified		Yeah, I did.
		I called what I called, it was in Tennessee, and he was called like Star Highway Patrol or something like that.
		Right.
		And by the time they actually got there, there was another guy come up in another car.
		We were all standing there, and the car was still running.
		It hadn't happened very long.
		And I reached in and turned the car off, and the little girl, she was hysterical.
		But it was like there was nobody else around but her, her mom.
		This is like 2 o'clock in the morning.
		And there was no one else around but her, the little girl, the lady who was driving, and this guy who was in the floorboard.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've got the picture, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No way he could have been outside if he was trapped on the floorboard.
unidentified		I've got it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, all right.
		Listen, thank you very, very much.
		I appreciate the poem.
		What you saw is he's somebody who dies in those circumstances, instantly, apparently, trapped underneath.
		There's no way that man could have been outside, not in his real body.
		And I guess not in that lifetime.
		But you know, he knew what had happened.
		At the instant or two before he died, he knew what was about to happen.
		His wife was there, and his little girl was there.
		And if ever you were able to cross the line in death and come back, even for a short time, that would be the time you could do it.
		Right?
		Your mind would be on your wife and on your child.
		And even if you only had an instant in which to manifest to yourself, you would do it, and that would be the instant.
		Now, I wonder how last night's guest, a very intelligent, extremely well-credentialed theoretical physicist and astronomer and really a hard science guy all the way.
		I don't know whether you caught the end of the program last night, but I asked him in my own way, virtually, about God, and he said, basically, no.
		You know, no, I don't believe it.
		And if I had to answer the question in that movie, you know, I'd have had to have said, no, I won't go because I don't believe in God.
		Basically, I believe that we have electricity within us and the synapses, fire, and all the rest of it.
		But when we die, that electrical energy dies with us.
		Those were his words.
		So I wonder, you know, I wonder how somebody like that would react to a story like the one you just heard.
		There's probably more to all of this than those of hard science imagine in their wildest dreams, don't you think?
		There probably is more to all of this.
		And that's a great deal of what this program is all about.
		That area just past where hard science is willing to say they'll go.
		I'm Art Bell from the High Desert.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		You are listening to Art Bell somewhere in Time.
		tonight featuring coast to coast a m from november seven two thousand two Once upon a time, once when you were lied, I remember you skies reflected in your eyes.
		I wondered where you were.
		I wonder if you think about me.
		Once upon a time.
		With the magic in his eyes, checking the big girl and die, cooler like it does the mamble.
		And he's an airline like it's called playing sexy in the morning.
		The DJ and I'm going to spy on the spot, where's the brand of crazy mix and they go mezcla con la salsa, y la baila, and the dances, y la canta.
		A se de he, ha de he, de hebe to de hebe, se de vino pa, ma vi en de buki en de buidi de fi.
		A se de he, ha de he, de hebe to de hebe, se de vino pa, ma vi en de buki en de buidi de fi.
		Aspereje, aspereje, dejeje de tu, dejeje de ese niño, a maviande bukirne, buiditi.
		Música Many think it's no clear, how it comes and disappears.
		Many more forget what ties you.
		Some will call it too large, others say that it's a real.
		That's a part of gold easy.
		And it's an airline, like it's so big.
		The DJ and the music are on the spot, I'm the band of the mix, I'm the best at full of salsa.
		Gila, baila, heavy dances, gila, canta.
		Gila, baila, heavy dances, gila, canta.
		Now, we take you back to the past.
		On Art Bell somewhere in time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And by the way, this is the all-Spanish version that I'm playing for you tonight.
		These girls are going to appear in New York City.
		Gonna be in New York City very soon.
		Three Spanish Sisters.
		And we've got the music video temporarily at least up on the website right now.
		And this thing is gonna take the world by storm.
		I'm pretty good.
		I'm third judge records, actually, of music.
		And I'm telling you right now, either the English version or the Spanish version is gonna catch on.
		And it's gonna just rip the world apart.
		Not exactly as much as the Beatles did.
		Nor ABBA.
		but these girls are gonna rip it up, trust me.
unidentified		No, I'm going to walk you down, but I'm gonna be with you.
		I'll be there, I'll be there, I'll be there.
		I'm going to walk you down, but I'm going to walk you down.
		I'll be there.
		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from November 7, 2002.
		Coast to Coast AM from November 7, 2002.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Listen, on the west coast of the U.S., and I would now count myself among those of you getting slammed by this storm.
		We're beginning to get a pretty big storm here.
		It's one of the typical strong Pacific storms that comes down from the northwest.
		Somebody fast blast me that, hey, check California weather tonight.
		250,000 people without power in the San Francisco Bay Area.
		It wouldn't surprise me.
		It's really, really ripping in here on the West Coast.
		And some coastal areas are getting 60-plus mile per hour winds.
		That will be quite damaging.
		And so the weather continues to worsen.
		I said typical.
		It's really not typical.
		It's typically getting worse every year.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hey, Arc.
unidentified		How you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Doing all right.
unidentified		Long time listener, I'm sorry to hear that you're retiring, actually.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you calling from?
unidentified		I'm calling from North Dakota.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Actually, I just wanted to give a comment on those C-130 pictures you had.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		I recently separated from the Air Force, and I used to be what they call the boom operator.
unidentified		And from the places I've been and what I've seen, that looks pretty accurate.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I bet it is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I bet they're real.
unidentified		Yeah, I refueled those guys over the pond quite a few times.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it is what it is.
unidentified		It is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So, you know, maybe people will judge this in many ways.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It'll be interesting to see what the reaction is.
unidentified		Well, I'm pretty sure that's authentic stuff, Arthur.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm pretty sure it is, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I appreciate the call, sir.
unidentified		Hey, sir.
unidentified		Thank you very much for that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
		and you could tell he was military as a matter of fact when i got out of the air force it took me It was a long time.
		I mean, you do sir so many times that you just it's impossible to stop.
		It's like acquiring an accent or something.
		You know, it's with you for a long time.
		I used to call everybody sir.
		Drove nuts.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
		Hello?
		Hey, is that me, Art?
		That would be you.
unidentified		Oh, okay.
		I didn't know how it was wildcard.
		Anyway, your question about heaven while I go?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		About what?
unidentified		About heaven, about God?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Um, yeah, God.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, I was talking about the guest we had last night and just sort of squaring it with a story the trucker just told.
unidentified		Yeah, I heard that.
unidentified		Anyway, I just want to tell you that there is a heaven.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure.
unidentified		And when I was six years old, I was trapped in the house fire.
		And I was very, well, I'm still religious.
		But anyway, an angel came to me and told me I was going to live.
		And she wrapped her wings around me.
		And next thing I knew, I was out of the house.
		Only other person in the house fire at that time was my dad and me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, the only thing I would say to that, though, and something for you to think about, too.
unidentified		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		An angel came to you, wrapped her wings around you, and said you were going to live.
		Yeah, okay, I got all that.
		I got all that.
		But what about all the children that burn up in fires?
		What happens?
		Where are their angels?
unidentified		You know, I question that myself, you know, because we just lost a 14-year-old daughter.
		She was hit by Amtrak, and I question that, you know.
		But this is very true.
		And like I said, I was six years old.
		And it was on Christmas morning, and it was very real.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, believe me, I understand.
		Thank you very much.
		That's the only problem I have with all of that.
		And of course, the answer is always, well, there are things that it is not for you to understand.
		And you have to be satisfied with that answer.
		Still, it begs the question, doesn't it?
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hello, Arth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that would be.
unidentified		Hey, how are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm okay, sir.
unidentified		Hey, it's great to talk to you.
unidentified		I'm calling you from Pennsylvania.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Pennsylvania, okay.
unidentified		Last night you had a gentleman on who was talking about Buddhist doctrines.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And he said that he was not a Buddhist.
		Well, I'm not either.
		But they do have some very interesting concepts that I wanted to mention.
		One of them is that they do not believe in God per se.
		They believe rather in the purification of God.
		They have a doctrine that they call no-self.
		They believe essentially that we're made up of what they call the five aggregates.
		Are you familiar with that doctrine?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Five aggregates.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm not.
unidentified		Yes, and they teach that so much of what we call the self is dependent on outside influences, like what we perceive with our senses.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So that when we think we're making decisions and doing things of our own free will, we're really not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That sort of thing?
unidentified		Well, they use the analogy of the chair.
		They say, what is the chair?
		Is it the legs?
		Is it the seat?
		Is it the back?
		They say the components can be broken down, and they do that basically with the human personality.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's interesting.
		That's interesting.
		Well, what we were discussing with the caller last night was the worship of ancestors.
		And they do.
		There's a great deal of ancestor worship in Buddhism.
unidentified		Oh, yes, definitely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, sir.
		Thank you very much for the call.
		I've often wondered about that, haven't you?
		You know, what is life?
		Is it something that you are willfully living every moment of?
		Are you picking and choosing every detail of your life and the way you will live it and what you will do?
		Or is it all orchestrated and you are but an unwitting puppet?
		Welcome to the Rockies.
		You're on the air.
		Hello.
		Hard Bill.
		That would be me, yes.
unidentified		Sir, I was in the Army, and this is over 20 years ago.
unidentified		I had to guard political prisoners from Cuba.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
unidentified		And these guys are not on vacation.
		These guys are prisoners.
		They're very dangerous, and they need to be restrained.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so they certainly are.
unidentified		Absolutely.
unidentified		They are taking every precaution to not endanger the soldiers and basically not to have the soldiers have to take action against the prisoners.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, of course not.
		I mean, if one of them got loose, that's an airplane.
		They'd do everything they could to take that plane into the ocean.
unidentified		Absolutely.
unidentified		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, I'm with you all the way.
		It's a harsh photograph for a lot of people, and a lot of people who don't understand, I fear, will take it the wrong way.
		But I don't know.
unidentified		Tough.
		What's there is highly necessary to keep a situation from happening.
		And they're doing what they're supposed to be doing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I agree with you, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
		Yeah, I just did it, sir.
		I just called it, sir.
		Maybe just talking about it was enough.
		First time caller line, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello, turn your radio off, please.
unidentified		Okay.
		All right.
		First of all, I'd like to tell you that I've not had the pleasure of being able to listen to you for a long time.
		And I really enjoy your show.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		And I'm really sorry to see you go, but George does a great job as well.
unidentified		And I'm pleased.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He will do just fine, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, what's up?
unidentified		Yes, sir.
		Back in 1963, I was 62.
		I'm 58 years old.
		I had a girlfriend back then, and she and I were, I live in Amarillo, Texas, and she and I were heading out by the VA hospital.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know where that is.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I lived in Amarillo.
unidentified		Okay.
		We were going out there to, you know, do what young kids do, neck and so forth.
		At any rate, she and I saw a really, really bright light.
		And I'm talking about it lit up the whole area over by the VA where, you know, the other side of the VA, there's medical facilities now.
		At any rate, it lit up the whole field like daylight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, when you're necking, you don't want bright lights.
unidentified		Well, we were still driving.
unidentified		We hadn't even gotten there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're only pre-necking.
unidentified		Well, in anticipation.
unidentified		At any rate, we were heading out there, and that light was so bright it lit up the whole field.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		And when we noticed it, it scared the living daylights out of us.
		It just vanished.
		And I'm talking about lit up the whole field, and that's north of the VA hospital.
		And just like daylight.
		And then it just vanished.
		And I don't remember, it's been so long ago, I don't remember seeing it come in or anything.
		I just remember.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or maybe God knew you were on the way to go neck or whatever, even more, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And said, see the light here, boy.
unidentified		Well, I saw the light, and she and I were scared to death, and you know, we went straight home.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, see, there you are.
		It worked.
		All right, thank you.
unidentified		Thank you, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Hi, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		I was wondering if it's possible for the space shuttle to be landing and taking off on runways on the dark side of the moon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Ah, sure, every Thursday.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay?
unidentified		Okay, thanks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, yeah, take care.
		Yeah, they zip over to the dark side of the moon and land every Thursday.
		They collect all the molten gold and other expensive metals and take off again, and they're back in orbit before we know it.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello?
unidentified		Yes, East.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can't really hear you, sir.
unidentified		Yeah, can you hear me now?
unidentified		Yep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yell into that phone.
unidentified		Yeah, it's been a far while since I've listened to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, but here you are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What's up?
unidentified		Yeah, can't see.
unidentified		One time that, you know, he's talking about out-of-body experience and stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you heard that trucker call in toward the bottom of the hour, didn't you?
unidentified		Well, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What would you call that?
unidentified		What's that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I said, what would you call that?
unidentified		Well, I don't know.
		It'd be out-of-body.
		It'd be kind of like, you know, being dead, I guess.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Being dead.
		All right, anyway.
		What about out-of-body?
unidentified		Well, one time, I used to do it a lot, and I'd do it two different ways.
		One way when I'd do it, I'd feel like I'd go on a tunnel.
		And another way I'd do it, it'd feel like you'd see bright lights and stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Suppose I were to tell you that scientists now are able to connect little wires to your brain.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And they're able to reproduce at their command exactly the experiences you're talking about.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The tunnel, the whole thing.
		They can actually stimulate your brain and make you go through that exact experience, even more complicated.
		Even an MDE where you see the white-robed people and the crystal castles and the whole ball of wax.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They can do that by throwing a switch.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, what does that say to you?
unidentified		Well, it could be, you know, your brain doing it, really.
unidentified		Except.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It does say that, yes.
unidentified		Yeah, one time that I went out, I went out what I'd classify with the lights and stuff and the light flashing lights.
unidentified		And when I go out that way, I could go any place I wanted to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, but how do you see?
		Here's the problem.
		Fine, you went all, you may have visited the world's capitals for all I know.
		But unless you can produce, and I've had a few guests who have done this, so I don't deny that it's a possibility, unless you can produce some real-world evidence, evidence that you were someplace and affected something, or were, for example, recognized by somebody as having been there,
		or were able to move something, or in some way document the fact that while ostensibly asleep or out of your body, in other words, proof, folks.
		Hard proof.
		There's not a lot of it out there, but some of the OBE people you talk to do tell anecdotal stories that involve real proof, so I haven't made up my mind about it yet.
		I do know it's something that the human brain can do, or that really does happen one way or the other.
		It's a real experience.
		I've had one myself, so to that degree, I understand it.
		But as for the rest of it, I don't know yet.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello?
unidentified		Yes, hello.
unidentified		I want to talk to Art about an out-of-body experience.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You too, huh?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, here you are, and I'm Art, so go ahead.
unidentified		Okay, well, when I was 19, I was running next to a train, wanting to hop on that train, and suddenly the universe pretty much stopped, and I saw a grid in front of my eyes in space, and I saw all different kinds of every kind of possible conceivable conception of human activity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This was while you were running to catch the train?
unidentified		Yes, it was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bad timing to have that kind of experience.
unidentified		Well, it was, because I could have been killed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, absolutely.
unidentified		Absolutely.
		And so the train was clacking right next to me, and I just wanted to get on that train.
		That was all I was thinking.
		At one point, the universe just opened.
		I saw a starscape and a grid pattern, and it was flashing all these.
		I was taking in about 100,000 frames a second.
		And I think the whole thing lasted about two seconds.
		But I understood that the universe was okay as it was.
		It was okay.
		There was an equal amount of good and an equal amount of bad going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Probably true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a good thing, because we're sure not going to change it.
unidentified		Well, I hope so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, sir, thank you.
		So he understood what there was to understand about the universe.
		That would be nice, wouldn't it?
		Like that equation, perhaps the length of your thumb, that would explain everything, the theory of everything.
		A first-time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		How are you doing, Ark?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm doing all right, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What's up?
unidentified		I want to say something in regards to you.
unidentified		I've been to your show for seven years now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're on a cell phone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not that easy to understand, but go ahead.
unidentified		Okay, I'm fighting the cold, that's why.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you've got a cell phone and a cold.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's really deadly.
unidentified		This is Ken Colin from Las Vegas.
		Yes, sir.
		You know, most of us look at a hero as a guy with a cape who can jump over a building in a single bound, you know, spin himself around and drill to the earth and come out the other side.
		All just, you know, jumping, going out of space.
		Well, in actuality, no pun intended, you know, he's a guy that can fall off a loss and paralyze itself.
		But we don't look at a hero as a true hero as a person who gets millions of people to listen to him, like Jesus did.
		And that's what you do.
		And you got this power that you don't, you know you got it, but you don't want to, you're afraid to use it.
		That's this power of, I don't want to say prayer, but you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm afraid to misuse it.
unidentified		I know.
unidentified		I know you are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm afraid.
		Well, that's an important word, sir.
		Misuse it.
		And a power that you do not understand is one that you can tragically misuse.
		And I do want to say a few words about this to all of you.
		You know, what's done by others when I'm not here, I certainly cannot control.
		However, I think it is reckless.
		And I think that it is ill-advised to plunge into these uses of mass consciousness.
		And I think it is so because we surely, absolutely do not understand this power.
		I have come to understand, believe without question, as a matter of proof, because I've seen it work, that it does work.
		However, there's also the law of unintended consequences.
		And when you're tooling around with something this powerful, you have got, you've just absolutely got to take into consideration before you say, let's rock, the law of unintended consequences.
		When you're dealing with things like nature, the power of nature in storms, and human events of varying sorts, before applying this kind of power, before marshaling these kinds of forces, even though you think you're doing good, trust me when I tell you, you could have the exact opposite effect, a very tragic effect.
		And I've done interviews with people who are right in the middle of this.
		They understand this.
		They work with the universities that are exploring all of this right now.
		And on their counseling, I have come to believe that it's nothing to be toyed with right now.
		I think one day, once we've done some controlled experiments and we understand more about it, then maybe who knows, for the good of mankind, for the good of whatever, such power might be applied.
		You know, millions of minds at concentration toward one end.
		But make one little mistake, and millions will be affected.
		And then it won't be so funny.
		So, I'd be very cautious about stepping across that line.
		I am, and I think all should be.
		From the high desert, Richard Hoagland.
		Richard C. Hoagland is up next.
		I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM, roaring through the night like freight trains.
		Keep it right where you've got it.
unidentified		The trip back in time continues with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
		More Somewhere in Time coming up.
		More Somewhere in Time coming up.
		Something inside that we need so much.
		The sight of a touch, or the scent of the sand, or the strength of an oak when you use deep in the ground.
		The wonder of flowers to be covered and then to burst up through tarmac to the sun again.
		Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing.
		To lie in a meadow and hear the grass sing.
		All these things in our memories are And they use them to help us to find Why do you find what she's on?
		Take this place, on this trip, just come on, yeah!
		Why?
		Why?
		Take a fear to the place of the sea.
		It's more free.
		I will have been sweating for years.
		Sweat so hard just to win my fears.
		And to win my life in all my life.
		But by now, by now, I shall have grown.
		Oh, my God.
		Premier Networks presents Art Bell Somewhere in Time tonight, featuring Coast to Coast AM from November 7, 2002.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you've been here for years, a guest on this program for years.
		Richard C. Hoagland is a former museum space science curator, a former NASA consultant, and during the historic Apollo missions to the moon with science advisor Walter Cronkite and CBS News.
		For the last 10 years, Hoagland has been leading an outside scientific team, very outside, in a critically acclaimed independent analysis of possible intelligently designed artifacts on NASA and other data sets, beginning with the unmanned NASA Viking mission to Mars in 1976 and its provocative images of a region called Sidonia.
		In 1993, Hoagland was awarded the International Engstrom Medal for his science, excellence rather in science, by the Engstrom Foundation in Stockholm, Sweden for that continuing research.
		In the last four years, he and his team's investigations have been quietly extended to include over 30 years of previously hidden data from NASA, Soviet, and Pentagon missions to the moon with startling results.
		Coming up in a moment, Richard C. Hoagland.
unidentified		S. Hoagland.
		you you Thank you.
		you You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from November 7th, 2002.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, here from the mountains of New Mexico is Richard C. Hoagland.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Richard?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Good evening, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good evening, Richard.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's been a while.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		It certainly has, although it seems kind of like yesterday a lot of stuff has happened.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Laura, when you and I last spoke, I was going, oh my God, look at those pictures.
		We were looking at actually two sets of pictures, but what flipped it for me was the set of the Russian pictures that you got hold of that confirmed this, to me, what could be nothing other than a city.
		And by the way, Richard, since you did that, there are a number of other websites, which I won't name here, which all of a sudden have sprung up.
		And they have found other city-like artifacts on Mars at different locations, you know, using the same strip of photography that comes from NASA.
		And they found all kinds of city-like structures.
		And these websites are popping up like crazy now.
		So you got them going.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, the data has them going.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Look, if you go to your site, we have some images racked up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And if you click on image number one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So everybody knows, you go to artbell.com, then you click on program, tonight's guest info, Richard C. Hoagland's name, and here we are, related images number one through 14.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Go to number one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Number one, underground buildings.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		Oh, here we are.
		Yeah, this is the one.
		This is the one.
		Oh, this is kind of interesting now.
		Downtown Cairo, Egypt on the left, and downtown Mars on the right.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Good old Sidonia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And at the bottom.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Darn, these look like buildings.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Don't they?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, oh, they really do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They really, really do.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And at the bottom, you'll see the inset with the close-up, and then the comparison to the Reims Cathedral.
		And it's the same perspective.
		You're looking straight down.
		In the Reims shot, you're looking down from a few thousand feet.
		It's an aerial photograph taken in Germany somewhere in France, sometime during the, I think, last World War.
		And the one at Sidonia was a composite of an image taken or released, you should say, by NASA on the 24th, 25th of July, and then composited with a visual image that we now know was taken March 8th.
		And when you put the visual image over the infrared image, what you in essence do is amplify the signal and suppress or average the noise, and you get that result.
		And you couldn't get that result unless there was something down there.
		This is what is just so mind-boggling, even to me, and I've been at this a long time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a city.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		That is a city under the surface.
		Now, the last time we discussed this...
		Well, we don't know when it was taken.
		It was released on July 24th, the official one.
		The one that Keith Laney got, he got on the evening of the 25th.
		And there's been this intense controversy over, you know, did he hoax it?
		Am I making this up?
		Are we in some kind of elaborate hoax?
		I mean, balderdash.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I was willing to go along with the possibility that you were hoaxed.
		I mean, you and I talked privately, and I said, Richard, are you sure?
		But then when you came up with the Russian photograph, that was too much for even me.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so now what you want to do is you want to go to image number three.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why am I skipping number two?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Because we'll go back to two in a second.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Russian Phobos.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here we go.
		Russian Phobos.
		Yeah, okay.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		See, now this is a comparison with the upper Sidonia region.
		On the far left in the middle is the fort.
		And the upper, toward the upper right corner is the face.
		The DNM is off the bottom of the image.
		And this pattern, this grid pattern, which you saw in the previous image as a close-up, is this underground city.
		I mean, what else can you call it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what it is.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And the image on the right, the black and white, is from the 1989 Phobos II mission where the Russians flew a infrared, thermal infrared scanner.
		Somewhat cruder than the Themis camera on the Odyssey spacecraft because the Themis image resolution is roughly 100 meters.
		The Russian imagery here is somewhat bigger.
		I think it's maybe 500 meters, something on that order.
		But it's on the same order of magnitude.
		It isn't a factor of 10.
		And this is a totally different region.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It doesn't matter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's obviously the same star.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		It's the same kind of city.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Can I ask you a question, Richard?
unidentified		Of course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If this was a city on Mars, and I think clearly even I can conceive that's what it was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		When was it a city?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		What a heck of a good question.
		That's why we have to go back.
		Our alignment data, the geometry that I've been talking about for years, if you stand in the center of the pyramid complex, which is off the frame to the left there, and you look across the face to that linear feature on the other side called the cliff, there's a solstice alignment.
		We're going to talk a bit about the solstices later on tonight.
		And that alignment says that that thing, whatever was done there, was done in the order of half a million to 300,000 years ago.
		It was not yesterday.
		And, you know, when I initially proposed that...
		Another order of magnitude.
		I'm betting closer to 300,000.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Now, the reason that celestial mechanics marker is important is because it's about the only thing that you can absolutely count on about any of this.
		astronomy is pretty simple.
		Orbital mechanics is really well known.
		Newton's laws of gravity and Kepler's laws of motion.
		So we're able to track back the history of the planets and how they tilt and wobble and all that.
		Or actually, JPL and NASA has done this.
		And using their calculations is when, you know, with a little geometry, as I published in the Monuments of Mars, my book, covering all of this investigation for the last 20-some years, we came out with an order of magnitude estimate of a half a million years.
		Now, here on Earth, a half a million years ago, there wasn't much going on.
		The most advanced guys that we conceive of in the geological record, the fossils that they dig up every now and then, was a primitive, you know, slope-browed guy, gal called Homo erectus.
		But what is really fascinating is on the order of 200,000 to 250,000 years ago, there was this remarkable leap forward on Earth.
		And even the mainstream anthropologists have discovered this from looking at the taxonomy of the fossils.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And this was how long ago this leap took forward?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		250,000 years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		250,000 years ago.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		But what's really fascinating is that there's a whole other group of scientists, the biologists, actually the chemists/slash biologists, who've been looking at DNA samples from terrestrial races, various groupings around the Earth.
		And they came out, a guy named Wilson at the University of California in Berkeley came out in the 1980s with an estimate that all of humankind, all of our lineage, went back to a tiny group of individuals, probably somewhere in Africa, on the order of 250,000 years ago.
		So you kind of put these dates all together, and what it says to me is that something extraordinary happened in our own history, and that something may be connected to the simultaneity of the something extraordinary that we're seeing in these pictures from Mars.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's say we're looking at cities.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's say those cities were there 300,000 years ago.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Something terrible happened.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Something terrible obviously happened, or they wouldn't be buried, right?
		Or they wouldn't be buried.
		So something terrible did happen.
		In fact, last night, Richard, I had a theoretical physicist/slash astronomer on it's entirely possible, you know, that civilizations don't last very long anyway, any of them.
		That eventually they all get hit by something and what you see here on these photographs, if it's real, if these really are cities, then that's what happens.
		Whatever it is is buried.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		That's why we've got to go back, because in the first place, my question was this, Richard.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I never quite got to it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If this catastrophic event occurred at minimum, say, 300,000 years ago, how were they able to get anybody off planet and to Earth, which is what you've been talking around for a while now, 50,000 years later?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, because these are all estimates.
		The error bars are so large that when I say 250, I'm like saying 300.
		So we have a real overlap.
		In other words, these are not like looking at a terrestrial calendar.
		The distances and the time estimates are so vast that 50,000 years out of 300 is almost like getting it right on the mark.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The most startling photograph up here, folks, is number one.
		And it's got a picture of Cairo, downtown Cairo, from the air.
		And it's got a picture of Mars from the air.
		Actually, from the vacuum above Mars.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's about 200 miles up in the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		About 200 miles up, which is out of the air on Mars, right?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Very much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, okay.
		Nevertheless, a good photograph, and the similarity between the two is so startling and so remarkable that if you aren't along for this ride, then you're not watching.
		That's all I can say.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Now, I mean, we've had incredible reaction to the show that we did when we debuted all this stuff back in, what was this, September?
		Right.
		And a lot of it has been negative.
		I mean, everything in the kitchen sink has been thrown at us from accusing us of hoaxing the images to accusing Keith Laney of hoaxing the images or being a damn fool and doing it by mistake and, you know, creating something wondrous and extraordinary, to accusing NASA or some other agency of hoaxing the image and trying to basically put it out to discredit us, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
		But the bottom line is none of the naysayers have been able to come up with a foolproof method of duplicating what we've got.
		And when you can take two totally disparate data sets, meaning the infrared data and the visual data, taken at different times and superimpose them and come up with buildings.
		I mean, look at that close-up of that thing at the bottom.
		That's a damn building.
		With perspective and I mean, when I first created this, you know, in the image program that we were working with back in, I think it was August, I could not believe myself what I was seeing.
		It was just too extraordinary after all these years to have this kind of independent evidence.
		And then, of course, the question is, well, if it isn't hoaxed, if we weren't slip something to basically be a ringer, to do us in credibility-wise, where did it come from?
		And what we're going to track through tonight is we think we have now figured out where this image came from and what it really represents as a portent to getting a lot more.
		Anyway, that's kind of prologue.
		So let's now go back to image number two, if you want.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		This is nighttime IR NASA just released.
		When you say just released, when?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		It was released.
		Let me see.
		When was it released?
		It was released on the 31st of October.
		Literally only about a week old.
		It was released on Halloween, which is kind of cute because it's, you know, NASA's way of saying trick-or-treat.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't see much here, Richard.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Is it a trick or is it a treat?
		The image on the left, let me explain for folks who may not be following this that closely, these are two tilted images.
		The reason they're tilted is because the spacecraft orbit around the planet is tilted slightly to the pole.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		So as this camera scans, it produces a slanted image.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gotcha.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And the image on the left is supposed to be the image taken and released on July 24th.
		Not taken on the 24th, but released to us on the 24th.
		The image on the right is supposed to be an image taken October 24th.
		For the first time ever, the Odyssey team decided to put a date when an image was taken on their image of the day on their website.
		We were told that they would not do that.
		We were told we would have to wait for the Planetary Data System Archive to be released.
		And there was a big release of 1,800 images from ASU, Arizona State University on October 1.
		But for some reason, when they took this nighttime infrared image, they decided to put a date when it was taken and a date when it was released.
		So it was taken, they claim, on the 24th of October, and it was released on the 31st, seven days later.
		First image they've ever labeled that way.
		And the right-hand image, the right-hand side of the image is supposed to be an image taken at night.
		Remember, we all wanted nighttime IR.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		This is supposed to be it.
unidentified		And why look at the left sidonia?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		If you look at the left in the upper middle of the left image, track right across on a line right across to the same position in the image on the right.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And you don't see anything, do you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		It's kind of weird.
		It's gone.
		It's missing.
		So that got me very, very curious.
		So what I've started, and we were going to publish this on the Enterprise site probably tomorrow evening, and we hope to have it ready by tonight.
		And there was just too much science to do and too many calculations and diagrams and all that.
		We're going to publish in written form the story we're going to go through this evening as to why this image is both real and not real at the same time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you manage that?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		That's a cute trick, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, for one thing, is it manipulated?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		It has been manipulated.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In what manner?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, first of all, they've lied to us as to when it was taken.
		I will go through and I will show you conclusively, absolutely conclusively, and if you don't buy it at the end of the night, I'll owe you $10, okay?
		I will prove this image was not taken on October 24th, 2002.
		That in fact, it's a much, much earlier image.
		And given that, and given the representation that it is an October 24th image, it means that we have caught the agency in an outright lie.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why lie about when it was taken?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		That's the critical, critical question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So answer.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		lie well until we go through some of the data i can answer that because you're not gonna understand or believe it until we get to the mcguffin is that which got used to say to see what's on the image because there's some really cool stuff on this image even though it has been
art bell ▲ ● ▼		On the right-hand image, there's almost what looks like a hole, but with the fact that it's an infrared night shot, and I know that the heat signature shows up as brighter.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It almost looks like a volcano.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Yep, it's not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's not a volcano.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		But you're perceptive.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		You're looking at the right kind of stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Hold on, Richard.
		We're at the bottom of the hour.
		My guest is Richard C. Hoagland of the Enterprise.
		Hello, I'm Art Bell from the High Desert.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from November 7, 2002.
		Coast to Coast AM from November
		7, 2002.
		Thank you.
		To the night, let me cry.
		Thanks So cold is that so many people, but it's got no soul and it's taking so long.
		Find out your own when you fight everything You think that it was so easy You think that it was so easy You're trying to be happy How do you be happy?
		But you're crying, you're crying now I need you, I need
		you, I need you, I need you, I need you listening to Art Bell somewhere in time tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from November 7 2002.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know no matter what you believe about all of this if you'll just take a moment go to your computer go to artbell.com program tonight's guest info and look at picture number one beneath Richard Hoagland's name.
		Picture number one is actually several photographs.
		The two most important in my mind, the top two.
		On the left, a very nice, clear photograph of downtown Cairo, Egypt, from the air.
		And then on the right, the photograph taken by the spacecraft, the IR photograph, of what apparently sits beneath the sand on Mars.
		Now, how could anybody, anybody deny that what we're looking at is a city?
		So that means 250,000 or 300,000 or 500,000 years ago, there was a city on Mars.
		It was above ground.
		It was bustling.
		It was full of people.
		And that may have been all over the planet.
		Not just at Cydonia, but it may have been all over the planet.
		very likely was and then And then something terrible happened.
unidentified		Now, we take you back to the past on Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
unidentified		Art Bell Somewhere in Time All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hopefully there's a fairly reasonably quick way to get through this.
		The Russians, Richard says, lied, not the Russians, I'm sorry, NASA.
		About when this photograph was released.
		For what reason, we don't know yet.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		I mean, isn't it astonishing that you'd make a slip like that because that's what you would think?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And, you know, I mean, what's wrong when our own agency is the agency we find, and again, I want to specify we're not talking the entire agency, we're talking about a group of individuals within it that are able to control the policy, the dialogue, and that everybody else kind of either doesn't know what's going on or they just do know what's going on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Richard, number one.
		Come on, out with it.
		How do you know they lie?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Go to image number four.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, you've got to remember, Richard, we've got a lot of people in trucks out there.
		We've got a lot of people who are not with computers right now.
		And I'm happy to go to image number four, but everybody's not going to be able to do that.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		This is radio of the internet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I'm there.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		On image number four, what I've done is I put the two side-by-side images together.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Correct, I see them.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		The one on the left is the one that we were given on July 24th of this year.
		The one that was the official daytime Sidonia infrared.
		And what I've done is clipped off just the top so that it matches the image on the right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can see it does, yes.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Which is the image that's on the left-hand side of the one I showed you a couple of minutes ago that was released on October 31.
		Now the official caption of the October 31 image says that that daytime infrared is the one we were given on the 24th of July.
		Categorically, unequivocally, says that's the image.
		Look at the top.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		The one on the left, you see those mesas?
		Yes.
		How they stop at a certain place?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Look at the one on the right.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		There's more land photographed in that image.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Isn't it possible that the IR on the right was capturing more heat, which seems to extend them?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
		The frame is the frame is the frame.
		And every version, every official version from July to the 31st showed the one on the left, which is longer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let me try another approach here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Even if they lied about when they released it.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		No, no, it's not when they released it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's about when they took it or not.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, no.
		This is about what version it is.
		Because the big hullabaloo over the version that Keith and I got versus the official version, NASA said there's only one version.
		Repeat it, one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Say after me, one image, one image.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One image.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Now we've got categorical proof on their own website that there are two different versions of this supposedly one image.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, to go back, circle back to my question, isn't it possible that it is one image processed differently?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, processing an image differently and adding more territory to it are two different things.
		We're talking about several square miles there.
		You know, when you think of it, the image is about 20 miles wide.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		So that's a couple of square miles of additional terrain that magically appeared.
		Now, this is not trivial because it's the, you know, say what you mean and mean what you say.
		We have been excoriated for proposing that there was a second image leaked to Keith the night of the 25th.
		NASA has said emphatically, there is only one image.
		Repeat after me.
		Banff, you know, Gorlick, the guy that's been hanging out at Enterprise all these months, he said categorically we're crazy.
		Christensen says we had to have made it up.
unidentified		Even our good friends think that we were slipped a ringer somehow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I said that to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So very early in all of this.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you did.
		Yes.
		You and Alan were both cautioning.
		Be careful before you leap off this Martian cliff.
		So what we have here is unequivocal proof.
		If you go back and look at the double image, the first one or the second one that we had up, at the top you'll see there is more stuff there, and there's no way that's just image processing.
		It's another image.
		So that being the case, then the question you have to ask yourself is, well, where does it come from?
		Now, go to image number five.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, where does it come from?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Where does it come from?
		Where and when?
		What drawer did they have this thing in that they decided for whatever reason to reveal to us?
		Remember, This is not right out in the open.
		This is kind of like leaking in public where you put things out, you caption them, and they're looking to see who's smart enough to figure it out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Which, of course, is the hallmark of a dissident group inside at war with the cover-up that are doing the same thing they did back during Pathfinder.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Remember how during Pathfinder we had some pretty peculiar images that kind of showed up on the website?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why cover this up, Richard?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, we'll get to that, all right?
		Without building the foundation, as the lawyers love to say, you know, I can't give you a simple answer because there is no simple answer.
		I mean, the simplest answer is they're trying to delay the inevitable, which is the admission by this agency and this government that the human race is not and has not been alone.
		That there is stuff in the other parts of the solar system.
		And for God's sake, maybe we're part of the stuff.
		Maybe it's part of our own history, which would be an incredible incendiary bomb in the heart of the body politics.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You don't think we could take it?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's not whether I think.
		It's whether they're following Brookings.
		Whether Brookings is still ruling the Roost.
		Remember, this official report that we found many years ago, which was published in 1961, commissioned in 1969, which basically said, to paraphrase Oh, who's that actor?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Richard, who commissioned Brookings?
		NASA.
		NASA commissioned Brookings.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		They had a different structure back then.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Basically, it was a big study to find out what the institutions, the religious institutions, what America would think if contact was suddenly revealed.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		That was one section.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		The document actually was looking at the out years and the impact of the space program on all facets of our society.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And one of them would be if...
		And Brookings concluded.
		Can you summarize what they concluded?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		You know, don't go there.
		I mean, I worked with Margaret Mead at the American Museum of Natural History at the Haven Planetarium in New York.
		We had some wonderful spirited conversations before she passed from this mortal coil.
		And her biggest fear was that if we were confronted with implacable evidence of an advanced extraterrestrial society, even in the form of ruins nearby with libraries that we could read someday,
		that as a scientist, it would so impugn the concept of progress in the Western tradition, that tomorrow we'll learn more than we know today, and the day after tomorrow we'll know more, because suddenly it would lay out a million years of science and history and experience that we have not had yet, and that a lot of folks would just say, oh, shocks, and give up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm curious, Richard, if you had the opportunity to be excavating one of these cities that we see on Mars, and you got in and you found a library, and the writing on the walls and the pillars and inside in the books or whatever it is they had that passed for books, all looked vaguely Egyptian to you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would you be surprised?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		No, not at all.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not at all, huh?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		In fact, there's a hell of a good series called Stargate, which I've been following religiously ever since I realized that they were trying to tell us some very interesting stuff.
		Just kind of watch that series.
		And Sci-Fi is reprising the entire three or four years of it now on Sci-Fi on Monday evenings.
		Four hours of Stargate back-to-back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Pretty interesting stuff, because whoever those scriptwriters are, they obviously talked to Chris Carter, who did X-File.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sci-Fi Channel is beginning to do a lot of interesting things.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		They're finally getting their chop.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They're actually going to go and do an archaeological dig at Roswell.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Isn't that astonishing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's part of the Blueberg series.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		It's part of what's going on around it.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		They sponsored a press conference at the National Press Club the other day, and one of their key people was none other than John Podesta, who was the former chief of staff in the Clinton White House.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And John stood up at the podium and basically said, you know, George, release those documents.
		And of course, my question was, well, when you were running Clinton's White House, why didn't you turn to Bill and say, Bill, release those documents?
		But nobody asked that question.
		Anyway, no, things are coming.
		Very interesting, big things are coming.
		And again, as the evening wears on, we will get into some of those.
		Because just before I went on the air, I had a call from our deep space contact.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		The guy in Washington who, you know, I mean, it's pretty interesting, the timing.
		And it was not coincidental.
		He knew I was coming on.
		He wanted me to basically communicate a few things and not, you know, step on the wrong toes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, this is a contact inside the administration.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Inside the current administration.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Who has been very honest with us and very credible in terms of predicting things that were going to happen before they happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So what does he say?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, he says, let me see, how do I put this?
		The events of a couple days ago, the national election, where basically they cleaned the table, have freed up a lot of energy now to move forward on the disclosure front.
		And he said that in the next few months, we should see some pretty remarkable things.
		And if we do not, then there should be hell to pay on the part of people demanding that they finally get off the nonsense of hiding stuff, losing it in a drawer, letting it fall behind the couch, having the dog eat it, et cetera, et cetera.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I will tell you this, Richard.
		When you consider revelations of the past, a lot of times your thinking would be it'll be a Democrat administration that will release this kind of shocking news, or that would be likely to release this kind of news, versus a conservative one.
		But the fact of the matter is, most times with surprising revelations from our government, they've come from the exact opposite administration that you would expect them to come from.
		And generally, they come when that administration is very, very strong.
		So, your point is well taken.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's what was affirmed by the phone call tonight.
		Now, I will remind you that it wasn't a Democratic administration that went to China.
		It was Nixon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what I meant by.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		I assume that's where you were going.
		So, I can see the logic of this, given that they now control both houses, given that there is a real determination to do things differently, and we've seen evidence that they're doing things differently, and there is a clock ticking.
		Remember, we have been following what I call the ritual clock, that there has to be, in the unfolding decade of this new century, there has to be a timed release of stuff if we're to arrive at a watershed circa 2012, which is where the clock is counting down to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You believe that?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		I believe it.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		I absolutely know it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what do you think?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And when the clock gets to 2012, Richard, what happens?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		I just know there's a clock.
		Now, Chris Carter in his last X-Files episode claimed that's when open contact is established.
		Given that the contact will probably come from members of our own family, meaning blood relations out there among the stars and planets, if the ruins we're looking at on Mars are what I think they are, I could see that there has to be foreshadowing, there has to be foundation laid, there has to be general cultural awareness of the possibility, otherwise there would be one hell of a shock.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, let's look at Brookings for a moment.
		I can understand that if ships were to begin to land in our biggest cities all around the world, there would be panic on a level that would be unacceptable.
		Just about everybody who thought about it would think it would be unacceptable.
		On the other hand, if news of an ancient civilization a half million years ago that existed on Mars were suddenly to come to light, shocking and interesting and fascinating and intriguing and thought-provoking as that might be, there's nothing particularly threatening about a bunch of skeletons on Mars.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		No, what's threatening art is the libraries.
		It's only threatening when we go, open the door, and believe me, it's not going to be inscriptions on the wall.
		It's going to be something extraordinarily sophisticated.
		Because remember, if we're looking at something real here, it's incredibly high-tech.
		It's not like Sumer.
		It's not like Egypt.
		Those are pale copies.
		Those are echoes down through time by humans, by terrestrials on this planet, who were mimicking through myths and legends and their architecture the wonders and the fabulous nature of what they'd heard about.
		Or maybe even seen an archive picture buried somewhere here on Earth.
		Because you can imagine if folks did come here en masse, you know, half a million years ago or 300,000, they would have left a lot of stuff.
		And it would have been high-tech stuff that would have been pretty resistant to time and change and enterprise.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		One would think so, and we should have found it.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, unless some guys have found it, and it's all been locked up.
		Remember the last scene in Indiana Jones movie?
		What was the first movie?
		Not the Temple of Doom.
		The Raiders of the Lost Ark.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Remember the huge warehouse?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Remember all the stuff in there?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		I have this vision of a warehouse like that with all the good stuff kept from us because of Brookings type thinking on the part of a small custodian of guys, self-appointed, who basically think they're the keepers of what we can and cannot know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There have been some pretty dark rumors, Richard, about people bringing things out of Egypt in the middle of the night for years.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
		I had a guy show up at one of my conferences who claimed that he was Robert Oppenheimer's nephew.
		And he told me flat out that in 1987, they brought something out in a C-130 that they found behind the walls off the passage leading to the Queen's Chamber in the Great Pyramid.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And that it was taken to Wright Pat to be back engineered.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely flatly told me that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you believe this person to be who they claim to be?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		I have no way of knowing.
		But I do know that we independently were looking into interesting weirdness that went on in 1987 around the Great Pyramid and the Japanese discovery with gravimeters of strange rooms, hidden rooms behind that passage down to the Queen's Chamber.
		And we do know that they actually drill through those walls into those rooms.
		And I was told by friends of mine at the Smithsonian that some very interesting stuff was shipped to Washington.
		Of course, when we try to track it down in the public archive, the kind of records, bills of waiting, and all that, not a trace.
		But a very well-known archaeologist from Egypt stood up in an open meeting of archaeologists in Tennessee in that timeframe, witnessed by a very well-known American archaeologist whose name, oddly enough, is Gypsy Graves.
		An archaeologist with a last name Graves, yes, Cariel.
		And she lives in Florida, and she is a wonderful individual.
		She led the first woman team of archaeologists in the 80s that the Egyptian government, Zahi, permitted to actually dig on and around the plateau.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold tight, Richard.
		We're at the top of the hour.
		We'll be right back.
		Can you imagine that?
		A big warehouse somewhere with all of those artifacts, many of them with Egyptian-like writings on them, no doubt.
		Tightly guarded.
		No doubt.
		I think it could be.
unidentified		The trip back in time continues.
		With Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
		more somewhere in time coming up and I never dreamed that I'd somebody like you.
		To be quiet, watch your heart.
		You must have smiled.
		For his misfortune there never coming near what you wanted to say.
		Or did you realize you never really wanted to see that you were just true about you?
		Everybody else would surely know Who's watching my girl The world who believes Can you see The wise man has the power To reason away What can see To
		be There's always better than nothing Nothing at all Keep sending him somewhere Back in a long, long ago Where he can still believe There's a place in life Now, we take you back to the past on Art Bell somewhere in time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think we all have to be wise men with this topic.
		Um wise men.
		We have to look at these photographs and ask ourselves, is that a Martian city?
		And if it is a Martian city, then we have a lot of questions that, as wise people, we've got to consider.
		Could there be a little bit of Martian in you and me?
		Does it really matter if there is?
		What happened to them?
		Will it happen to us?
		Does it inevitably happen to all life that rises from the muck?
		Lots of questions that wise people have to consider very carefully.
unidentified		Thank you.
		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from November 7, 2002.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Coast to Coast AM Once again, Richard C. Hoagland.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Richard, welcome back.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Let me finish, if I can, that little story about the Great Pyramid, because it does bear on the rest of what we want to talk about.
		Sure.
		My friend Gypsy Graves was in this meeting in Tennessee in late 80s, 87, 88, somewhere around there.
		And she reported that one of the archaeologists from the Council of Antiquities from Egypt was making a presentation.
		And he talked about them officially drilling into the side wall of the passage that goes to the Queen's Chamber, which is the lower chamber of the Great Pyramid.
		This was a wall that the Japanese a year or so before in 86 had found readings from gravimeters.
		These are gadgets that basically measure slight gravity variations.
		And they found what they thought were hollows behind the walls.
		Because if you've got an empty room, you know, it's going to have less mass and therefore less gravity than if it's full masonry all the way out to the edge of the pyramid.
		When they drilled in, according to this archaeologist from Egypt that my friend heard in this major meeting, she wasn't the only one there, but she's the only one I know, she said that he said they found sand.
		Well, now sand is very interesting because sand makes one heck of a shock absorber.
		If you want to put something valuable in a room and keep it safe from earthquakes for thousands of years, if you don't have that stupid popcorn that comes in every package these days and winds up spilling all over the floor, you would pack it in sand.
		Because sand, I mean, sand is used, for instance, in road barriers.
		Those big yellow buckets at exits and bridges, where if you swirl off the road, if you had too much to drink, you crash into the barrier.
		They break.
		They also use water.
		And the idea is the momentum is transferred to the water or the sand.
		It goes flying up into the air.
		Your car is cushioned and you wind up surviving what could be a fatal head-on crash.
		So sand is a good protector in earthquakes.
		So when the sand started coming out, they apparently captured some of it and they took it to the lab for analysis.
		And he reported, this is again an archaeologist from the Council of Antiquities reporting at an official meeting in Tennessee in 1987 that the sand was, in his words, highly radioactive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Highly radioactive.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Think about this.
		Archaeologists are not technical people.
		Archaeology has had to be dragged kicking and screaming into the 20th century to use high-tech tools.
		So his term highly is a relative term.
		It could have been higher background than normal.
		I don't think he meant high enough to kill you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Normally, if I were to say highly radioactive, I can assure you it wouldn't be just a tick or two above background.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		No, this was something significant, but I just had the feeling, and she did too, that the way he said it, that it was anomalously high as opposed to dangerously high.
		Okay.
		But even so, it don't belong there, and it certainly shouldn't be radioactive.
		So, I mean, there's a whole story that goes along with this, which I'm going to put in the new book.
		But the bottom line is that I think that whoever built the pyramid concealed something in those rooms.
		So later, I had people, other people from Sedona who used to do tours to Egypt every year.
		And they were able to get into the pyramid by seducing their keeper away for an afternoon.
		And they bribed the guards, and they got in.
		And one of them actually took pictures.
		And they reported back to me that what they found was a huge replastered area in the Queen's chamber on the wall that was around the corner from where the holes were drilled in the passage.
		Like something big had been taken out and they'd replastered the wall.
		Furthermore, they found up in the Grand Gallery, which is this sloping 26-degree seven-corbled stair-step vault inside the pyramid, you know, incredible feat of engineering and artistry, which is directly above, the end of the Grand Gallery is directly above the Queen's Chamber.
		They found and photographed very large steel bracings.
		Like someone had put these massive steel bracings to keep it from falling down as someone was jackhammering in to the pyramid in the bottom underneath in the Queen's Chamber.
		Now, you don't do this with a national treasure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And approximately, when would this happen?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		This was in 87.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And after all this went on, that's what I'm sitting a few months later.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Richard, they think the actual drilling, jackhammering went on in 87.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And this was the time when there was a bunch of Americans that went there and used some high technology to excavate the solar boat pit outside the pyramid.
		There are two solar boat pits, huge wooden boats, that were literally buried.
		They were taken apart carefully and buried in pieces.
		And the standard Egyptological theory is that they were for the Pharaoh, you know, his solar boat that would be symbolically reassembled in his afterlife, and he would use it to sail across the sky.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you ever met Zahi?
unidentified		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, you haven't.
		All right.
		Zahi is quite a character.
		Oh, he is.
		And Zahi's biggest passion is making the world believe that the Egyptians and the Egyptians alone built the pyramids.
		And he's got some pretty damn good evidence.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, does he or doesn't?
		Well, he does if you look at it one way, and he doesn't if you look at it another way.
		Like a lot of these things, it's right on the edge of the razor blade.
		And it will take a smoking gun to tip it one way or the other.
		And my vote is that he's not right.
		That what he's trying to do is to basically, from pure nationalism, you know, keep the Egyptian name and lights up there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		There is a lot of that in Zahi.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		But as a matter of fact, that the pyramids were there when the Egyptians as a culture formed, and they just inherited them, which is perfectly fine.
		You know, because the stuff we're talking about, let me finish the story and then we'll get on with Mars.
		The interesting thing about all this is that these people, separate people, not knowing each other, would come and tell me this stuff.
		And I tried to get the photographs from the Sedona group.
		And when they heard what I wanted to do with them, this woman freaked out, refused to let me have them because she said that it would upset American-Egyptian relations and it would basically show that they were covering up extraordinary stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It would have done that.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, but that's what truth tends to do sometimes.
		The key thing is that you've got the Japanese in 86 finding the chambers by gravity meters.
		You've got the drilling in 86-87, the radioactive sand from an Egyptian representative at official scientific meeting.
		Late in 87, you've got my guys go there and see evidence of some huge excavation, probably with jackhammers.
		That's why the Grand Gallery was braced, because there'd be incredible vibration directly up through the pyramid into the Grand Gallery.
		And then, at the end of 87, at this conference in L.A., you've got a guy comes up to me out of nowhere, claiming to be the nephew of Robert Oppenheimer, and he says that there was something taken out of the pyramid in 87, put on a C-130, and spirited out to Wright Path.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you let somebody like this just walk away?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, what are you going to do?
		I mean, I've tried, you know, I was actually signing books, and I was like in the middle of a whole bunch of people, and I couldn't just say, you know, I'll forget about you, and I'm going to run after this guy.
		I want him to hang around.
		I said, let's have lunch, you know.
		It was just one of those things where he just stopped by to tell me something, and, of course, he had no way of knowing all of the things that I've been working on.
		Anyway, the bottom line is that the Great Pyramid is an extraordinary masterpiece of architecture and art.
		I don't think that, quote, primitives did it.
		I think it was extraordinarily sophisticated engineering, and I'm not alone in that.
		And there's a lot of other evidence indicating that something radioactive may have been inside, possibly as a power source, possibly something as primitive.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Again, leaning toward the concept that the pyramid is or was a machine.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		A machine.
		A reactor.
		I'm thinking nuclear reactor, which would have left radioactive sand.
		It would have needed to have been cushioned.
		Okay?
		And are you aware that the pyramid is a thousand years younger at the top than the bottom?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm not.
		No, make your case.
		What do you mean?
unidentified		Okay.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		The pyramid is put together with massive limestone blocks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right, right.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And then it was cased with a sheathing 22 acres of incredibly polished limestone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yep, I climbed on it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		It was ripped off in the, I think it was the 9th century.
		Anyway, the core blocks are put together with crude mortar.
		And the way they made the mortar is that they would mix straw in with the gypsum and other stuff.
		And so you've got an organic compound.
		Well, a guy named Mark Wayner, you know who he is?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Who is the Carl Sagan of Egyptology?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Who was actually put through school by the Casey Foundation.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		The same folks, by the way, that put Zion through school.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		You begin to get the feeling that maybe the Casey Foundation knows more and is not telling as much as it should?
		Because they have put these two key keepers of the old guard in their key positions?
		Anyway, just a thought.
		So Lehner does some brilliant work in his Ph.D. climb in Jerusalem, where he's able to date an old wall by the radiocarbon dating of the mortar in the wall.
		You can't date rock or stone, but you can date the mortar because the mortar has the straw.
		And when you basically cut down the wheat, anything biological will have a radiocarbon content.
		And we won't go into how you measure the clock, but there's a way to do that.
		And it's very well tested.
		So Blenha was able to come up with a date, a pretty good date for this wall in Jerusalem.
		Then he got the bright idea, still while he was under the influence of the Casey people, to go to Egypt and to collect samples of mortar from the Great Pyramid.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Makes sense.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And a bunch of other monuments.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		To be tested, sure.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And he took 15 samples in a spiral path going up, you know what it's like, because you climbed it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Up from one corner, up to the top, and down to the other corner.
		And what he did was he divided them in two groups.
		And he sent one to, I think, the University of Texas here in the States, which has a very good radiocarbon lab.
		And he took another control group and sent it to Zurich, Switzerland, which also has a very good carbon lab.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's good science.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
		And he had the most modern technique, because there used to be an old-fashioned technique where it took many, many ounces or at least a few grams.
		There's a new technique using atomic accelerators that basically bombards the carbon with a proton beam and creates radioactive daughter products that they then measure that will give you, through a calculation, the amount of carbon and carbon-14 that was in the original sample.
		And for that, you only need like a millionth of a gram.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, and so much more sophisticated.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Ah, the two studies that resulted were that in his spiral path of samples from the bottom to the top, the samples taken from the top were literally a thousand years older than the samples at the bottom.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Which is impossible.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Was it a linear change, Richard?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		No, no, of course.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		It was a logarithmic change.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A logarithmic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, at what point, since he had a controlled sample going from the bottom to the top, at what point did the jump take place?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, remember, the pyramid is wider at the bottom.
		It's not just altitude, but also the spacing.
		Well, to make a long story short, when I looked at all this, I thought, bingo, I've got them.
		Because the one thing that would skew the whole radiation curve, because remember, the dating is from cosmic rays bombarding the straw.
		If you have a radioactive source in the pyramid, and it's emitting neutrons.
unidentified		Oh, oh, oh.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		You get it?
unidentified		You get it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, I do, I do.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		What it does is it beautifully skews the curve, produces exactly what he got.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Lehner has been running at warp 9 from this paper for the last 10, 15 years.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		He will not even admit that he ever did the study.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll be damned.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Because, of course, it proves they've been hiding something really, really cool.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That was taken out of there, that was radioactive.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
		Packed in radioactive sand to keep it shock-proof from earthquakes and fuel the pyramid as a machine.
		produced electricity to make it do whatever it was supposed to do and come back when we have more time all go into all i was a What do you think?
		Well, we have a lot of other stuff I want to get to.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What do you think that machine might have been?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		The pyramid?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		A hyperdimensional generator, of course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		To achieve.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		To achieve several things.
		One is to achieve an altered state of consciousness for people in the king's chamber, or things in the king's chamber.
		All right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And that's where the whole idea of pharaohs and afterlife and flying to the stars and all that came from, because it's, again, a warped version of the real physics of real stuff.
		The other thing has to do with where it sits on the Earth.
		The pyramid is precisely, well, within a few arc minutes, of 30 degrees north.
		There's a whole bunch of pyramids around the Earth that all, curiously, are at 30 degrees north.
		30 degrees is a key hyperdimensional angle.
		If you're on a rotating planet and it's spinning and it's got mass and you don't want it to tip over.
		I think the pyramid was an effort by the last epoch of high civilization, the same folks that left this stuff off Cuba to keep the damn planet from tipping over.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In other words, to keep from happening to Earth whatever happened to Mars, perhaps?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Among several times, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So that by the time they left Mars, they had with them this technology.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		They, of course, retained it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Which they then brought to Earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And in deference to Zahi, perhaps somehow Tom Sawyer, the Egyptians, in the building?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		I don't think so.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		I think the Egyptians found Giza as the plateau pretty much the way it was.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But Richard, you can go to Giza, and you can go not where most people go, but to the gravesite of The workers.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I've been there.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		But we don't know what they were working on.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Remember, there's huge hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of mastabas, those kind of coffin-shaped burial chambers all around the pyramid.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They were obviously working on something at Giza.
		I mean, you can't do that.
		Their archaeological digs are now digging up gigantic feeding facilities and kitchens and, you know, the kind of logistics that would have been required for an enormous working force, Richard.
		That's pretty strong evidence.
		Now, who's this?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		There's strong evidence they were building something, but we don't know what.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Now, they may have been building the Kefran Pyramid and or the Mycerinas Pyramid, which are the two pyramids flanking the Great Pyramid.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, as I suggested, perhaps they were essentially Tom Sawyered by those who immigrated from Mars.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		You almost said the M-word.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Martians, yeah, I almost said the Martians.
		Hold on, Richard.
		Surely something did, something awful happen to the Martians.
		I think that's clear when you look at these photographs of what was.
unidentified		The trip back in time continues with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
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art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it looks like we really broke one tonight.
		If you'll go to the Drudge site, you'll see that Drudge has picked up our story, our photographs, the C-130 photographs that I referenced at the beginning of the program, and Drudge has put a link to my site and those photographs.
		So it looks like for the first time in all known history, I may have eclipsed Drudge a little bit.
		So thanks for picking it up, Matt.
		He's got a link back to our photographs, the ones of the C-130s and the Al-Qaeda in Transport that I referenced at the beginning of the program.
		Richard C. Hoagland, back in a moment.
		Stay right there.
unidentified		Stay right there.
		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from November 7, 2002.
		Coast to Coast AM from November 7, 2002.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once again, Richard C. Hoagland.
		And Richard James from Anchorage, Alaska, fastblast me the following.
		Pretty interesting stuff in view of what we were talking about.
		He says, perhaps the radiation is the reason that the people, in quotes, got sick the first time the pyramid was entered.
		You'll recall the mummy's curse, or what they thought was the mummy's curse when the pyramid was first entered.
		People did, in fact.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, except there wasn't a pyramid.
		The pyramid's been entered for hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years.
		We don't know how far back people were going in.
		We know the Arabs were going in in the 9th century.
		You know, Al-Mamun's story.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But there were many.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		It's the tombs in the Valley of the Kings that Carter and others, when they opened them, people got ill.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But didn't that apply to almost all the tombs there?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		It's been one of those.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		I would call it an urban legend, but I have to call it an Egyptian urban legend.
unidentified		I guess.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, but would they really know the difference between radiation sickness then and whatever else they thought it was?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, but it would have to be so high.
		And remember, we've had tourists going in and out of the pyramid who passed those rooms for centuries.
		And no one has fallen mysteriously ill.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Very good point.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And, you know, there are hundreds and thousands of tourists every year.
		No, it was, I believe, that the archaeologist, when he said, you know, high, he meant anomalously high by background standards, not killingly high.
		And if you think about it, depending upon the kind of radiation and the kind of reactor, if it was, as I estimate, you know, 13,000 years old.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Then the worst of it could be far behind.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		The short-lived isotopes that are created by neutron bombardment go away relatively soon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You bet.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And again, it's what the sand is made of that produces the radioactive problem.
		and sand is pretty neutral.
		In other words, glass is, it That's why they want to pack the high-level nuclear waste these days in glass.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I haven't looked at it in a long time, Richard, but you may recall that I brought a piece of sandstone from the pyramids.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And it wasn't supposed to come out of Egypt, but I've got it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I haven't looked at it in a long time, but it had an effect of glowing in the dark.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, what you told me when it was brought back by Larry Hunter.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Remember Larry?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And he gave me a piece, and he gave you a piece.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And you said you threw it in a drawer with Saul watches.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		A radium dial watch.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And you said that when you opened the drawer, you were astonished to find the watch glowing brilliantly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		I have been asking, how many years now?
		For you to please find that piece because it's a crucial part of the hyperdimensional puzzle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is somewhere in the house, Richard.
		I have searched and I have searched and searched.
		It's here somewhere, I guarantee you.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		You need to find it because what I think is going on, and again, when you do find it, I want you to do it again in video.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I remember taking it into the closet and noticing the same effect at your purge.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		What it would do if it literally was altered by its presence in the hyperdimensional machine known as the pyramid, it becomes a kind of a little mini gate of its own.
		And one of the things that we know about the hyperdimensional physics is that it changes radioactive decay constants.
		But radioactive materials are not immutable.
		They do not have an immutable half-life.
		The half-life can change depending on the physics, depending upon the hyperdimensional environment in which they are.
		Since the pyramid was this massive machine that was literally connecting itself to hyperspace when it was energized, all the stuff in it, all the limestone, particularly the limestone that was part of the piece that Larry brought back, which was from those bags that were brought down from the fever?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, would have been affected.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Would have been radically affected.
		And when you bring them close to a radioactive source, what it would do would be to increase the natural radioactive rate, which means the radium, I forget what the half-life of radium is, but it's a certain number of atoms per minute that produce the little glow of the phosphorescent paint.
		If they were to be increased, in other words, the number of fissions were to increase significantly because of proximity to this little piece of hyperdimensional tunneling, then the radioactive rate would go up, the phosphor would be bombarded greater, the light would become greater, and I would not do this for a long period of time, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it wasn't a little bit, Richard.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The increase in brightness on the dial was so bright that you could see the light on the piece of limestone.
unidentified		Holy cow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I know.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		It's wonderful.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Really, really bright.
		And you've got to remember that's inside of a dark closet drawer.
		I mean, a chest of drawers drawer.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, with the socks and stuff.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		So it was maybe, what would you say, 10 times brighter than it normally would be?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Really?
		Shockingly bright.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, the light is proportional to the radioactive decay.
		So the number of fissions per second, per minute, was probably a factor of 10 greater.
		So the half-life was reduced by a factor of 10.
		You've got to find this piece.
		It's a real important piece.
		And I don't think Zahi is going to let us go back and get any others.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not a chance.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Okay, exactly.
		Not a chance.
		But if there's one piece and one mysterious effect, there must be others.
		And it was only through the grace of You Know Who that we got a piece.
		And somewhere in your house, there is history.
		Ramona, please find it for him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, if anybody can find it.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Women can always find things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That doesn't matter how they do it.
		I know.
		I know.
		I don't either.
		It's eerie.
		All right.
		Well, so all of that, though, if even perhaps true, eats away at what Zahi really fervently wishes to believe and does believe, Richard.
		He believes the Egyptians and only the Egyptians built this, although he's at a loss to explain how.
		And he truly is at a loss.
		He will just stop and tell you, I have no idea.
		Ah, but art, that is the mystery, isn't it?
		That's what he says.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, but I think that's a political position, because remember, if you've experimented with pieces, you know, with watches and radioactive stuff, he's had access to all this for decades.
		You don't imagine that he hasn't been listening to the show.
		I mean, he used to listen, I know, regularly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		So, you know, if he heard us back when we did this first show, which was, what, about five, six years ago, when Larry brought those pieces back?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		It was before I left Weehawk, and that was in 97.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		So it was somewhere around 97.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and he was really angry, too, Richard.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's when he was threatening to behead people and toss them in pits and stuff.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
		And anyway, he could have easily gotten a piece.
		In fact, it could have been the reason why there was a whole remodeling campaign for those chambers above the king's chamber.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		By the way, he's building a big wall around everything over there now.
		I've heard.
		Do you know that?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		I've heard.
		I've seen sketches.
		It's pretty weird.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it is weird.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Given that this stuff's been sitting there, you know, available to tourists and anybody else for literally thousands of years, the idea that the keeper of the flame in the 21st century would be building a wall to guard access to the pyramids, what more can happen to them?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		His political stock over there has been rising quickly.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		So I've heard.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, he's doing very well.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, we're getting close to that magic date of 2012.
		And as I said, one of the models is that that's the year we make contact.
		Another model is that that's the year when they finally admit what you and I are discussing right now: namely, that we're a lot older and a lot more extraordinary than we think, and we have much deeper roots in time and space and history than anybody has dared to believe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's a kind of contact.
		And I would say that while that would shake up a lot of people, I think the world would probably be able to live with it.
		I mean, it's an ancient, dead civilization.
		Yes, it will cause us to have discussions about our own roots, but it's not going to tear society into little pieces knowing that something half a million years old and dead is on Mars.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Unless there is technology there which could be extraordinarily important here, you know, we tend to turn every high technology into a weapon system.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know what NASA would say?
		They would say, look, you're out of your mind.
		If we had evidence of a city on Mars or libraries that we could go and visit, we'd be screaming from the top of the building here in Houston for all to hear that we need the money for a manned mission to Mars to go read what's in the libraries.
		I mean, we are NASA.
		That's our business, to go into space.
		We love manned missions.
		We are NASA.
		We'd scream it at the top of our lungs.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And they're lying.
		Let's go back to the pictures.
		Click on picture number five.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		You got it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It'll take a moment.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		You have broadband, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I do.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I do.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		I have a dial-up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have a dial-up now, do you?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Which helps me from keeping them from breaking in?
		I mean, they are constantly trying to break into this poor little computer, whoever they are, and they just can't do it because it keeps knocking it off the air.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, two words, Richard.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Firewall.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Firewall.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, have you got number five up?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
		You're sitting here, and I'm bouncing all over the place.
		And in fact, trying to get back to my site right now, and it's very, very busy.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		So somebody's looking.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, somebody's looking.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, what you're going to see when it comes up, and for people who actually have been able to get it downloaded, it's a composite of three images.
		The two top images are black and white on the left and a color version on the right of a nighttime infrared that was taken on March 21st of this year, released in October in the PDS data dump that we were all anticipating.
		And it was the closest nighttime image to Sidonia until Gorlick, Banff, whatever his real name is, released the image on the 31st, claiming that was the nighttime IR he had taken on the 24th of October.
		You got it up there?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry, which number?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Number five.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Number five.
		I am now at number five.
		Okay, yes, I've got it.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		At the top, you'll see two images side by side.
		Black and white on the left, color on the right.
		Each of these images released in three bands of color.
		The nighttime images.
		Did you know that?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think I can see green and blue.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, green and blue and purplish and all that.
		Those are from three bands.
		I think it's band 4, band 9, and band 10, I believe.
		At the bottom is the purported nighttime IR.
		And the first thing you've got to know is that the image taken on the left, the top black image, black and white, was taken on March 21, which is just about the dead of Martian winter.
		It was taken only 100 miles away from Sidonia.
		So it's the same geology, same geography.
		If you look at the bottom image, that's the one that was supposedly taken at the height of summer.
		October 24th turns out to be just after the summer solstice in the northern hemisphere.
		Totally we get the solstice in the meaning the first day of summer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I know.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you look at the two images, you said before that the IR night image from Sidonia was kind of crappy.
		It's full of noise.
		Why?
		That's supposed to be a summer image, and it's comparable to the winter image just above it.
		So go to number six.
		This is going to be how we ferret out the truth.
		Whoever's trying to keep this stuff from us, this is their undoing.
		This is a graph that was made up by Dr. Bob Zubrin.
		It's basically an equivalent Martian Earth calendar.
		The outside orbit is Mars.
		The inside orbit is Earth.
		Center is the Sun.
		And the very outer ring, you've got the seasons, right?
		Those are seasons in the northern hemisphere of Mars.
		So as Mars goes around, it goes through these various seasons if you're at Sidonia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gotcha.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Summer, spring, winter, fall, et cetera, et cetera.
		If you look at the red dot, that's where Mars would have been when the October 24th image was taken if it was taken on the 24th.
		And you can see that it says northern summer.
		See the little line just to the right of it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		That's the solstice.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		That's the peak of Martian summer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gotcha.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		The little blue dot, by the way, is where the Earth would be.
		All right.
		Go to number seven.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Summarizing as we go, Richard, what are we saying?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Number seven is a plot of the two images, the daytime IR and the nighttime IR.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And what I've done is to put a little compass between them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see that.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And I've shown an angle of 35 degrees north above the east-west line, which is the line that goes left-right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And 35 degrees south.
		If you're at Sidonia with a tilt of Mars, which is 25 degrees, that is the maximum angle at which the sun will set in the summer.
		This is summer solstice sunset?
unidentified		Yep.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		The upper green line?
		Yes.
		The lower green line is the winter solstice sunset.
		So as on Earth, if you sit as I do here in the wonderful New Mexico desert and watch sunsets out my windows, you can see the sun tracks back and forth along the horizon as the year progresses.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		This is what the Indians used to do.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		There's a whole solstice marker at Chaco Canyon left by the Anasazi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All of this that you're doing is basically to tell us.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, we're getting there, all right?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		So what I've done, and now you want to go to number eight, all right?
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Number eight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		What I did was simply look at the slopes, the cliffs.
		And there's this little feature that we call the island because it looks like a big island, you know, like a flat mesa.
		Steep cliffs sitting in the middle of the Sidonia Plain.
unidentified		Yep.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And if you look at the right-hand image, you'll see that it's brightly lit on its southwestern face.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So that would be where the sun would be.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Where the sun is shining.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		That lower green arrow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's how IR will show.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		It heats up the cliff during the day.
unidentified		Gotcha.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And then at night, it glows in the infrared, and your camera picks up the glow.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yep, yep, yep.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		So if it's not lit, it can't glow.
unidentified		Right.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		If you'll notice, the glow stops basically at the western tip.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It does, yes.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		It does not extend around to the northwest tip.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right, which tells us exactly where the sun was, yes.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And the sun, the green arrow, is where the sun would have been coming from on the 24th.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		This picture cannot repeat, not have been taken on October 24th.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		I'm going to repeat myself.
		All right.
		Let's say that you've proven this and that they didn't take the picture when they said they took it.
		Yep.
		Meaning what?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Why would they lie?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's my question, Richard.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, no.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		That's my question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no, that's my question.
		You're the one who's been looking into this.
		That's my question, Richard.
		Why would they lie?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		I'm not NASA.
		I don't know.
		I can suppose, I can suspect, I can presume.
		I haven't got an affidavit from somebody saying yet, because we will get it someday.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Obviously, you have thoughts about it, though.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		I have thoughts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What would be the motivation?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		All right, let me tell you when we now know from this geometry that this picture was taken.
		It was taken in January of 2002.
		Not in October, but in January of this year.
unidentified		Okay.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Months and months earlier, right?
unidentified		Yes, okay, fine.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		That's a hell of a lot of time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Why would they conceal that they had taken the picture then?
		Well, for one thing, in January, what was NASA doing with the Odyssey mission?
		They weren't even in the right orbit yet to begin their formal mapping.
		They were doing, and there's some linked releases from JPL that are going to be in our story tomorrow evening.
		They were talking about tweaking the orbit, doing little burns here, doing little burns there, circularizing, adjusting, et cetera, et cetera.
		That's when they took this image.
		In other words, the first thing NASA did when it got to Mars, and after the arrow breaking, it took these pictures of Sidonia and then lied to us about it.
		It didn't admit it.
		It stuck a guy named Bamp slash Gorlick over at Enterprise claiming that they couldn't take any pictures in the infrared in the night because it was too cold.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I recall.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, we have now proven that he lied about that and he's lied about this.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Why would an official of the U.S. government keep palming off lies on us?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Damn it, Richard.
		That's my question.
		Stephen.
		Okay.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And hide the truth, which is this confirms an extraterrestrial set of ruins at Sidonia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hold it right there, Richard.
unidentified		This is Premier Networks.
		That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
		Music A man is rolling mixing, double fall time.
		I feel alright when you hear the music rain.
		I feel alright when you hear the music rain.
		Step inside, don't see too many things.
		Coming in out of the rain, they hear the jazz go.
		You can dance, you can dive, having the time of your life.
		See that girl, watch that sea, she's dancing queen.
		Friday night and the lights are low, looking out for a place to go.
		Whether they play the right music, getting in the swing, you come to look for a king.
		Anybody could be that guy.
		Night is young and music's high.
		With a bit of rock music, everything's high.
		You're in the mood for dance.
		And when you get the chance, you are the dancing queen.
		Young and sweet, only seventeen.
		Dancing queen, feel the beat from the tambourine.
		You are listening to Art Bell somewhere in time.
		Tonight, featuring Coast to Coast AM from November 7th, 2002.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Richard C. Hoagland is my guest.
		We're discussing our possible Martian ancestry.
		The pyramids, Egypt, and of course, Mars.
		And again, for those of you that are even the hard-bitten skeptics out there, go and look at photograph number one on Richard's site, particularly the one on the right, and tell me that he hasn't got something.
unidentified		Loud noise
unidentified		Somewhere in Time with Art Bell continues, courtesy of Premier Networks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course, if we ever did get to Mars, we might be able to get a sample of some DNA from something or another, and you've got to wonder what kind of comparison there'd be between Martian DNA and human DNA, don't you?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Don't you?
		See, in a way, Zahi's right.
		Because if this shakes out the way I think it's going to, obviously, it's part of the family anyway.
		It's just they're a lot more ancient than he's willing to publicly presume or to admit or whatever.
		Anyway, let's get back to the images because I do have a point I'm trying to come up to here that I think is going to be very important for everybody.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, we need to get there pretty quickly, though.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Comprehension, yes.
		Okay, go to number 10.
		I'm sorry, number nine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Number nine.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Number nine.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I'm there.
unidentified		All right.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Remember how when you looked at the overall IR image, I pointed out that you can't really see the face at all?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		All right, this is an enlargement.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		The one image on the left is the daytime IR face blown up, you know, fairly large.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The other is the nighttime.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And the other is the nighttime.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Which looks like the typical sandbox.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		It sure does look like the cat box, doesn't it?
unidentified		Yep, yep, yep.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		But it's there.
		Now remember, the daytime is sunlight plus thermal infrared from Mars.
		The nighttime is only infrared from Mars.
		There's no sunlight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gotcha.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		The only thing that makes things bright in the nighttime image is heat.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Things heated by sunlight during the day.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		So you go to number 10.
unidentified		Okay.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		I don't mean Downing Street.
		Right.
		What Vance very neatly did in his own caption, he said that he'd carefully put these images together so they could be registered.
		What do you do when you register an image?
		You put one image over the other.
		So what we did, what I actually had Keith Laney do, is to put the one image over the other.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And you can see the left strip and the right strip forming a very large cross.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And what happens when you put images over each other, if you're looking at exactly the same stuff, the signal adds and the noise cancels.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That I would expect, yes.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
		Well, it's standard.
		Even in radio, this works.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		So what we did is we started looking and now right in the middle, see what you see?
		There's the face.
		Daytime plus nighttime IR.
		And there's a whole bunch of other details.
		We won't dwell on this.
		Go to number 11.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I see the face very clearly.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Go to number 11, all right.
		Taking this as a hint for what we should do, what I did is I took the same crop close-ups we had before, and I colorized each one.
		I made the sun image, daytime image, red, the nighttime image blue, supered them carefully, and what that did, of course, is it averaged the noise.
		It's a very noisy nighttime image.
		But the same stuff is down there lit by infrared, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		So you basically increase the signal.
		And lo and behold, image number three, there is the face.
		Right.
		And it doesn't look like a face, which you would not expect it to, because that's a visual representation of lights and shadows, reflection, and all that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		But what it looks like, go to the next image, image number, well, stay on that one for a moment, all right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I already was.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		It looks like, well, go back to it.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		It looks like a big rectangular box.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		It looks like a 1x1.5 box.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It does, actually.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Longer than wide, but with square edges and straight sides and wumpy stuff, which of course is the thermal stuff coming up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Which would have been the frame for the face.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		The frame, precisely.
		So go to number 10.
		I'm sorry, number 12.
		Number 12.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Got it.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Now what I've done is I've compared this daytime image and a Mesa that's right next door to it, the closest other thing next to it.
		And the top image is the nighttime with this closest mesa.
		The mesa has pretty interesting features.
		In fact, they're really interesting.
		The more you look at them, the more bizarre they look.
		But the face is again, except for a few little white lines, it's gone.
		There's no really bright stuff, warm stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right, yes.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		It's a cold box.
		You can see the frame there.
		Tilt your head to the left.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, no, I see it.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		You can see the frame.
		Absolutely.
		Okay.
		What is this telling us?
		Well, what it's telling me is that the big test that we've all wanted for years, if we ever got this technology, would be is the face just like any other Mesa on Mars?
		Or does it have anomalous thermal properties?
		What would give something anomalous thermal properties?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Radiation?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Or the capacity to store heat.
		Remember, it's getting energy from the sun during the day.
		The reason, for instance, you have a room full of rocks in houses that are heated by solar energy is because rocks are good at storing heat.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And at night they release it into the house and you keep your house warm with stored solar heat.
		Same theory is functioning with these images.
		The bright stuff is heat being radiated back into space at night after being stored during the day.
		The fact that the face compared to the next closest object is so dark, it's almost ambient, it's almost background, indicates to me that it cools off too quick.
		In other words, if it's sitting there as an exposed mesa made of rock, exposed to sunlight all day, you'd expect it to be warm.
		And you'd expect to see it warm all over in a roughly same configuration that we see it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So why don't we?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Because we're looking inside, I think art.
		We're literally looking at the beams and cross-bracing of the rectangular box.
		And the thing we see as the face is the surface covering.
		This is the most interesting evidence that this thing is an artificial, non-natural, non-rocky structure.
		And that's what would have been worth hiding from January to October of 2002.
		Because if they found this out, and I presume the original image was a hell of a lot better than the one we're seeing, because there's so much noise in this, and the noise, of course, would have been to drown out the other stuff, the underground stuff.
		If you, well, we won't go back, but if you look carefully at the other images, you'll see hints of the underground structures that had on the other.
		Let's go ahead.
		Let's go to image number 13.
		What we did is we looked at some other mesas around the Sidonia plane.
		This is one to the south of the face.
		The bottom image is the daytime.
		Looks like a little normal kind of weird little mesa, right?
		Eroded by whatever.
unidentified		Sure.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Look at the top one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		It's right around the bottom edge.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's like it's a hole.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Brilliant.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		But the center is pitch black.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's like a hole.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		It looks like a hole.
		Well, it looks like a geometric hole.
		It looks like what it might be if this was another eroded arcology art with walls, which is where the massive bracing would be contained.
		And the interior was hollow, and it had been basically filled with light, fluffy stuff, Martian dust and dirt, which of course has very low thermal conductivity and would store no energy at all.
		And we saw a very similar image from the Hidaspis Chaos region back in March when they held their first press conference.
		We had this series of structures, and in the paper we'll have the comparison, where you have these incredible mesas that were dark on the interior and they had brilliant geometric edges.
		By the way, look where the brightest parts of the walls are facing.
		They're facing south, the bottom of the image.
		They're not facing west.
		That means that whatever that stuff is made of is holding and radiating a lot of heat from the dawn, which is on the right-hand side.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it would seem so.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		All the way through noon, which is at the bottom, all the way through sunset, which is on the left.
		And again, this is a deep, deep winter image.
		We think it was taken in January, Earth time, 2002.
		Final image.
		Okay?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		From all this, I was looking down at the nighttime IR, which is the bottom image, black and white, of our familiar five-sided DNM pyramid.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Look at that Thing.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		I mean, you can see the geometry.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You sure can.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		It's all lit up.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		It's like a damn Christmas tree.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I agree with you.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Compared to the face, which is non-existent, this thing is like it was on a totally different planet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I agree.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		If these are both rock mountains, mesas, why is this thing brilliantly lit up, meaning it's hot, and why is the face basically dark?
		Because they've got to be made of different stuff.
		They can't be a couple of miles away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know the Richard, why would it be that the good guys at NASA, the ones that you say are the majority, wouldn't be looking at these photographs in the same way that you have?
		I mean, a large number of them.
		They're concerned with this.
		It's their interest.
		It's what they do.
		Why wouldn't they look at it with the same interest and questions that you have?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure they do.
		And I'm sure it's all inside waiting for the right political environment to come outside.
		That's what I was told with my mom.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Let's talk about political stuff for a second.
		The Russian photographs that we got that so surprised me because they verified what NASA did.
		And then I know you went after the Russians.
		You tried to open a dialogue with the Russians.
		Tell us what happened.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, this is going to sound really awful, Art, but I can't.
		Because literally, just before airtime, I got this phone call, and part of it had to do with ongoing negotiations with the Russians to get us the data we've been asking.
		And so rather than, as you know, diplomacy is best conducted quietly, certainly not in front of 20 million people.
		Because some of those people are not our friends, and they will run and tattle and try to keep everything from happening that should be happening.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How do you know this phone call wasn't made to prevent you from telling us tonight?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Because it has a time limit on it.
		And it's from our deep space source, the same guy, you know, who's been giving us other good stuff.
		And he called me up tonight to tell me that it's very much alive.
		And in a few days, he was optimistic.
		He felt that maybe by next week we will have what we're looking for.
		But we should not discuss it at any great length because it's very fragile, it's very delicate, and there are sensibilities on both sides.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you know I know the story.
unidentified		Right.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, I know you know part of the story.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I know enough of it.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And I shouldn't say a word, huh?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		No, no, not that.
		If by next week, you know, I'm going to give everybody a time limit.
		If by next week we don't have what we've been promised tonight, I will come back on and I will give the entire full story.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that ought to put a little pressure on.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		That's part of why I think I've got the phone call.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And the other, let me go back to the image for one second and then we can get on to the political aspect as to what people can do to help with all this.
unidentified		Sure.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Because the reason I keep coming on and doing your show, besides, you know, you're a hell of a nice guy, is that there's a lot of people out there who really deserve to know what's going on, who we are, where we've come from, and I'm frankly very bad and upset that this keeps being hidden from them, and they keep being lied to and whippersnapped and snookered in every fashion possible down to something as stupid as when a picture was taken.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		I mean, aren't you a little tired of it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, if, in fact, it really is motivated by hiding everything we just talked about, of course.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, what other motive could there be?
		Given the big picture, Brookings, the way governments operate, the way control groups who love power and love to sit on it and use it for their own purposes operate, did we ever imagine it would be anything else but?
		And the only thing that's going to change it is getting a lot of people involved.
		Well, let me go back to the image for a second.
		This last image.
		If you scroll up to the top, the two color views, the one on the left is the purported July 24th image, which is noisy as hell.
		The one on the right is the DNM pyramid in close-up from our leaked image that was given to Keith Laney somehow the night of the 25th.
		What I found, and Kane Laney found, and a bunch of other people have found, is a remarkable similarity between the bottom image, which is ostensibly nighttime IR, and the top-right image.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I agree.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		There are differences.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		But if you composited a daytime image with a nighttime image, you'd get the top-right-hand image.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So it would seem, yes.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And what I think they did is they snuck in early, before any scientists or press were watching, and they took a bunch of pictures of Sidonia.
		Visible, infrared, color, you name it.
		They shot the hell out of the place.
		They then waited in the mapping mission for their next opportunity and took more, and then more.
		And the reason you would do this is because you would want a sequence of images as the temperatures went from deep winter to spring to summer.
		And you would see the change in thermal conductivity.
		You'd be able to see if there was anybody home down there, if the lights were on.
		Look at the DNM.
		If this image was taken when we now have calculated January of 2002, look at how bright it is compared to the other stuff I've shown you.
		Clearly.
		This is not just absorbed solar heat.
		It appears to be something inside still powering this structure.
		The same way art, that little piece of the great pyramid, when you brought it close to a radioactive source, was able to trigger a massive radioactive reaction.
		And this physics and technology, which should be the heir of all mankind, is being kept in a drawer for a few, and frankly, I've had enough of it.
		And in the next half hour, I want to outline a strategy for getting to the bottom and getting the truth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We've tried a lot of things, Richard.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you really think there's a strategy for getting to the truth that really might work?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've only been at this, what, 27 years?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's my point.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, but remember, there's also a clock.
		There's also this implacable clock where they've got to get everybody ready for 2012.
		And if that's true, then there has to be a timetable for releasing what has been found.
		And that's why, you know, this stuff was hidden from January.
		Why was it suddenly kicked out there on October 31?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why are you so convinced something or anything will occur on 2012?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Because that's when the ritual calendars that we've been working on come to a denouement.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		I won't say end.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They can.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		But they come to a breakpoint.
		This is, by the way, completely independent from the Mayan calendar.
		What really astonished me is when we were working on this stuff, you know, beginning a couple three years ago, and we figured out that there was this clock tied to the positions of the Earth and the constellation of Tanis Major and the star Sirius and Egypt and all that.
		It was completely separate from the Mayan calendar.
		But it has the same basis in real celestial geometry.
		In other words, it isn't an accident that that date is an important date, because it has to do with lineups between where the Earth is, where the Sun is, and where certain parts of the galaxy are.
		And if this is being paced by a larger aspect of this physics I keep talking about, then those celestial relationships are going to have to be important.
		They're going to be factored in.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		2012 will be an interesting break date.
		Hold it right there, Richard.
		We'll be right back.
		From the high distance.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Coast to coast AM.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Always something, isn't it?
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from November 7, 2002.
		That guy is such a sin.
		He's like me, oh, why can't I get him?
		Nothing but a heart in everything.
		I've got a lot of tears that come on the way.
		Nothing but a situation that I just can't win, yeah.
		He's like me, oh, why can't I get him?
		I've got a lot of those heartaches.
		I've got a lot of those teardrops.
		Heartaches.
		All the way down.
		All responsible, practical.
		Then they showed me a world where I could be so dependable.
		All clinical.
		All intellectual, cynical.
		There are times when all the world is clear.
		The questions come to the end.
		You're such a simple man.
		Won't you please?
		Please tell me what's wrong.
		I know it sounds absurd.
		But please tell me who I am.
		I said, now what would you say?
		I'll be calling you a radical.
		A liberal.
		A fanatical criminal.
		Won't you sign up your name?
		We'd like to be your acceptable.
		Respectable.
		Oh, presentable.
		A vegetable.
		Oh, tick, tick, ticky, yay.
		Oh, I'm sorry.
		Now, we take you back to the past on Art Bell somewhere in time.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Richard doesn't know it yet, but he's about to be taking calls.
		So, if you want to talk to Richard C. Hoagland, now is your opportunity.
		Those are the numbers.
		And in just a moment, we'll rock.
		Stay right where you are.
unidentified		Stay right where you are.
		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from November 7, 2002.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, I know Richard wants to encourage you to do something to bring all this to life, so let's go ahead and get to that.
		Richard, I do want to take calls.
		This is a talk show, and I want to expose you to whatever's out there.
		So go ahead and say what you want to say.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, look, we have reached a watershed, I think, with this new data.
		We have proven now overwhelmingly that they are lying and lying and lying.
		And when you look at the details of this imagery tonight, it's obvious what they're lying about.
		They're trying to delay the inevitable, which I believe is, you know, that overworked D-word disclosure.
		The problem is, do we want it on their terms or our terms?
		I have spent about 20 years, a generation, working at this.
		And I've not done it alone.
		I've had a lot of very important help, both technical and people, extraordinary people, for instance, from your audience.
		And I want to really thank an awful lot of people who have stepped up to the plate and sent us $5 or $10 or $20 or even those stunningly shocking $1,000 checks that occasionally come in for people who believe, as I do, that the American system is at stake.
		If we really believe in representative government, then we have to demand accountability.
		We have to demand that people tell us the truth on something certainly as important as the past and future of all mankind.
		And of course we need help.
		Because what we need to do, beginning at the turn of the year, is launch an extraordinary new political campaign.
		We've just been through an election where the Republicans won and the Democrats didn't because basically the Republicans outspent them.
		And they spent in the right way and they spent in the right places and they had the right message.
		Well, we've got the right message.
		We know where to put the pressure.
		We just don't have the funds to put the pressure where it needs to be.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I agree.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		So if people want to support enterprise, the first thing you can do, my dear friend Art, is go and find that damn piece of the pyramid.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		That's what you can do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll do what I do.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		That is your mission.
		Should you choose to accept it, Mr. Bell.
		Second, everybody can go and get a copy of the Monuments of Mars.
		I predicted in the fifth edition, in the foreword that I wrote, exactly what we are seeing in this nighttime IR image.
		A stunningly different face, thermally anomalous from its surroundings, from its background, from its terrain, indicating overwhelmingly that it's got to be made of something weird.
		It's not rock.
		And the likelihood is it's made of artificial stuff.
		Number three, what people can do is to actually just send money.
		You know, I have that old joke about, you know, what can you do?
		Well, just send money.
		$5, $10, whatever.
		Send it to the Enterprise Mission at P.O. Box 3550.
		Edgewood, New Mexico, 87015.
		That's P.O. Box 3550, Edgewood, New Mexico, 87015.
		And if you didn't write that down, it's on the website, which takes me to the third thing, or is the fourth thing you can do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Keith Rowland, who is soon to be the ex-webmaster of the Art Bell Show, because art is walking off into the sunset for a while, and I have gone into an interesting co-venture.
		Keith is Scotty again.
		He is the masterful engineer of the Good Ship Enterprise.
		And he is running the first paid conference that I know of probably in web history.
		We've had enough of the trolls and the agents and the provocateurs and the disinfo artists and all that.
		So what we did is we moved our website and we set up the conference under Scotty's Able Stewardship.
		And for a lousy $4 a month, you can help enterprise and join the political campaign.
		Because in that conference, which is really becoming more of a think tank, we are going to hammer out a strategy and then launch it beginning next year In January, and I will come on the show and explain exactly what we're doing, but this is where we're putting together various representatives that are going to have a major, major difference in the months and years ahead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So you're saying people can join that conference.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		All you do is go to Enterprise and you go down to my invitation.
		It says Hoakland Invitation.
		You click on that.
		It takes you to the site.
		It walks you through.
		PayPal was down tonight, obviously, of all nights they could be down.
		They were down.
		But $4 a month, you know, I've been out of touch with things a little while.
		$4 a month, it turns out, is one pack of cigarettes.
		It's one quarter of a pizza.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		These days, it is.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		It's one six-pack of beer.
		It's nothing to be part of something that's going to make a difference.
		Let me tell you how it's making a difference.
		We had someone join the other day from Austria.
		It turns out that he is quite connected to the German space program and has become our emissary with ESSA, the European Space Agency.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're going to take calls in 30 seconds.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		You will do.
		Next year, ESSA launches a mission to Mars.
		It has a two-meter color camera art, not under the control of NASA.
		So as part of this conference, we have found someone who is willing to be our representative, carry our message to the appropriate European scientists and project officials, and you will find out what happens by being part of this conference.
		And you do that by going to Enterprise and clicking on the Enterprise.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, there you go.
		First time caller line.
		You're on the air with Richard C. Hoagland.
unidentified		Good morning.
		Yes, hello?
		Hello.
		Yes, I had a question about the radiation within the pyramids.
		Sure.
		With tourists being able to travel there, the exposure elements of that, if it's such a secret, what kind of weaponry, could it be used for weaponry of mass destruction?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean the fact that there's radiation there?
		No, I think not.
		I'll answer for Richard.
		It was a very low-level radiation compared to anything we'd be concerned about, and it's had plenty of time for its half-life to deteriorate.
		Right, Richard?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think it was only anomalous in a scientific sense.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		I think it came from whatever they packed around.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Although it would be interesting to go back and ask what he meant by very high radiation.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, we've tried.
		And I got nothing at the Smithsonian.
		I got nothing through my Egyptian contact.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		The road ended.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Richard C. Hoagland.
unidentified		Hi, Richard.
unidentified		This is Brian calling from Atlanta.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Morning, Brian.
unidentified		I was just curious.
		I have kind of a couple of quick questions.
		The pictures and the probes and all these things, they're ultimately controlled by NASA.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Ours are.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		The probes that they send, who builds them?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Like Lockheed or contracts are put out to American Industry, and most of them are built by Lockheed Martin.
unidentified		Okay.
		So let's assume a person, say, of the wealth of Bill Gates or somebody like that decides that they want a probe.
		Can they buy one?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, you could buy the pieces and assemble one, and there are a number of private efforts.
		In fact, there was an announcement the other day that next year there will be the first private launch to the moon.
		And I'll be fascinated to see how far they get because it's so easy for a probe to go astray, for a rocket to misfire, for a solar panel not to open.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do these people that you're aware of have the resources and the technical capability?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Do you think they have the money?
		They even have the permission from NASA to launch.
		You have to get permission to launch a private mission anywhere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		But my problem is if they're going to go to the moon and into close orbit and take pictures of things that are not on the timetable, we'll never get to see those pictures.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Something will happen.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on there with Richard C. Hoagland.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Yes, how you doing, Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, sir.
unidentified		Hey, Rich, how you doing?
		Hi here.
		Mars Revealer here in Central East Florida, home of the Martian Revelation.
		Hey, Richard, I got a question for you.
		During that infrared image, right?
		Now, being with the shows, like you said, they're still showing a lot of things, even though a lot of noise, incredible things.
		Could it be more in the realms like going up to where I have proposed about artscapes?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Given how much noise in the image, Gary, I don't know yet.
		And I think that's why we have to force politically more images out.
		We've got to get with allies that can help us.
		I mean, obviously, this BAMP character who's leaking this stuff on a website that he controls, he's hoping that someone will be smart enough to figure it out and exert the proper pressure.
		One of the key things that happened, Art, the other night with the Republican sweep, our old friend John McCain is back in the saddle.
		He will become chairman of the Commerce Committee in the Senate, which controls the NASA budget.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's a good point.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And John McCain is a friend of everyone out there.
		He's the one who went to bat for us a couple of years ago to get all those images out of Malin's secret archives.
		We need the resources, as in any political campaign, to go to Washington, to brief Senator McCain, or go to Arizona, whichever is closer.
		In other words, we've got to think of this now as a political, we're within sight of the goal, and we've got to cross the goal line, and we need the real help of everybody to do it because we've got the goods.
		We have the goods tonight.
unidentified		Indeed, and the Martian Revelation, you know, here in Central East Florida is, you know, here to help do that.
		And thank you, Richard, for your support.
		And, Art, it's certainly nice talking to you again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		And by the way, people, Keith Laney will be on my show this weekend.
		And like you said, Art, we're rocking, man, and we're going to rock this boat.
		And we're not going to let them tip us over.
		Ain't that right, Rich?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You do have a good day.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		I should mention that Gary's show is on Saturday night.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		He's trying to become another Mr. Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And he's doing a hell of a good job, and he's had all the creme de la creme on.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And any support that he can gather, I would certainly support because we need more voices.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wester of the Rockies, you're on with Richard C. Oakland.
unidentified		Hey, Art.
		Long time no here.
		Remember Leslie and the psychic twins out of San Diego?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Of course, yes.
unidentified		Well, I do agree that twins and clones do have souls.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		That I do agree with.
unidentified		But this is what I'm putting forward to Richard.
		I read his book and Zachariah Sitchin's Twelfth Planet, Back to Back.
		I'm thinking that your artificial city came from them.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Probably in some variation, you're probably right.
unidentified		I agree.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Especially from the Anunnaki, right?
unidentified		I definitely agree.
unidentified		Because when Marduk collided with Tiamat, where would they have gone to escape the destruction?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		How we sort out the reality from the myths, the misperceptions, is the fun part over the next couple, three years.
unidentified		I would love to see you go to Mars to find out.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So would a lot of other people.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		If enough people get together, we will.
unidentified		Well, there's one little hitch in that.
unidentified		Your little problem with a little item that Major Ed Dames has been talking about in art, our little mysterious Planet X. It's coming through next year.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		I don't buy it.
unidentified		You don't?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Planet X. Let me tell you what it is, folks.
unidentified		I've seen it.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Planet X Nibiru is Mars.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		And the big announcement, the big coming closest, changing paradigms next spring could be that that's part of the calendrical revelation dates, and something big may break with a little help from our friends to force this out of the closet.
unidentified		Well, let's just say last March I saw a rather bright star in the area of Orion, Gemini, and Sagittarius B. According to Sitchin, that's where it's supposed to show up at, and it has.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, maybe you saw it.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		I know the sky pretty well, dear, and I ain't seen it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You ain't seen it, but there have been stories, Richard.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Oh, there's lots of stories.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, mainstream, ABC kind of stories.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've seen them, right?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		No.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have not seen them?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		I haven't seen that one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		About either a very dark sun or a very large planet.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, well, those are much farther out, and they're in circular orbits, and they were out in 1998 when you and I were doing some things.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Those first surfaces in 98 perturbing comets.
		Those are part of the unseen solar system that we've been talking about, called for in the physics.
		Two other planets out there.
		But there's nothing coming toward the Earth, and nothing in the category of Sitchin's Nibiru.
		And I frankly think this has been part of a manufactured noise to prevent discussion of the real stuff, which is focused on Mars.
		Mars was Nibiru.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time caller line, you're on the air with Richard Hoagland.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, Richard.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Ah, good morning.
unidentified		I have a question.
		I'm not very technical.
		I understand that these probes are taking the pictures, and I'm assuming they're sent back via radio waves to the Earth.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Microwaves.
unidentified		Microwaves.
unidentified		Why can't you guys come up with something to intercept these so that you get direct pictures before NASA has time to change them up?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Boy, have we ever thought of that in the past?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		We have tried, and actually we found an old radio telescope down in Georgia that we looked at.
		It was one of the 1960s dishes in fairly good condition.
		It could have been repaired and made to work and all that.
		And we started looking into the coding problem, because what NASA does is they code these signals in a binary language that basically is unbreakable.
		And the only people that have the key to break the code is NASA.
		So even if you intercept the signal without the code, you're nowhere.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, why do they have it encoded, Richard?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		I wonder why.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I do too.
		I mean, is it to protect the Russians from getting these images?
		Why not send them in the clear?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, there are some technical reasons why a certain coding improves signal-to-noise ratio.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		It's called pseudo-random noise coding.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand that.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		But in fact, it seems to be to keep, again, information from the people who are paying for it.
		These games going on at ASU with this data, dribbling, dribbling, dribbling, leaks and all that, it's just out of bounds.
		There has got to be accountability, and with enough pressure from enough of us, we'll get it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		One last, I think.
		Wildcardline, you're on the air with Richard C. Hoagland.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yes, good morning.
unidentified		This is Todd Call from Pennsylvania.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Richard, you're talking how the piece of a pyramid that art is missing is radioactive.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
		I did not say it's radioactive.
		It has a hyperdimensional property that when brought near radioactive materials enhances the half-life of the radioactive stuff.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Like radium on a clock.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		But in itself, it is harmless.
		In fact, art, if you find it and you sleep on it in the small of your back, I think some very positive things could happen.
		No, I'm very serious.
		Very serious.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That would be about the only thing I haven't tried, Richard.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it's non-invasive, my friend.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's true.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Find that piece, Ramona.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, it was pretty kind of jagged, Richard, so I'm not sure how non-invasive it would be.
		Anything else, Color?
		I guess the color is gone.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		He went away.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		So not radioactive.
		I don't notice that you would take it.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Look, if the pyramid was radioactive as people walk through there, it's a chunk of line.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It'd be a lot of sick people.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		You'd have a lot of dead tourists.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		Well, all right.
		Time is short.
		Anything else you want to get through at the very end here?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you want to buy a copy of the book, which I offered to sign for those people that are lining up to be extras in our film, and the next time I'm on art, I'll give you a very important update on how the movie is coming.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Short update.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How is it coming?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, we'll know in December.
		There's a major meeting in December where I finally think I'm going to get the script I want.
		Anyway, if you want to be part of it, you have to read the book first.
		That's the one criteria.
		So call an 800 number, which is 800-350-4639.
		And that's another way you can help enterprise, because without what we're doing, I do not see disclosure on our terms anytime soon.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You don't think something could intervene to make disclosures sudden and unexpected?
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		Well, look at what's going to happen in December.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		We've got Steven Spielberg with his Taken, which is a, what, 20-part series on sci-fi?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		$70 million.
		Do You know what I found out is the core hypothesis in Spielberg's, quote, fictional series?
		Hybridization of human beings via, quote, aliens.
		And people are walking around claiming in the film, I'm one-quarter, I'm one-eighth alien.
		That's not possible art unless they're genetically related.
		Which gets back to the, are we looking at ancestors and the things we used to do in the ruins at Sidonia and elsewhere on the planet Mars?
		We have got to know.
		This has now gotten to the point where there is no alternative but to know, but to know requires a small price, which is you get involved.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Richard.
		Well, I hope you've talked him into it.
		I know you need the help, and I appreciate your being here as always, and we'll do it again soon, my friend.
richard c hoagland ▲ ● ▼		We sure will, Art.
		Good night.
		Be well, my friend.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, folks, that's it for this night.
		Tomorrow night, the GIS is here, the Ghost Investigators Society, and it's going to be pretty strange.
		From the high desert, I'm Art Bell.
unidentified		goodnight I can't take a path.
		I can't take a path without you.
		Oh, baby.
		Oh, baby, baby, baby.

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